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for years he owned a gun. on monday, she give it up. rhonda lee has been fired for defending her short, natural hairstyle on facebook. to the bribery aisle. how walmart got its way in mexico. >> and mexico, and a lever to tell a bribery and one of the world's largest corporations -- walmart. >> an ever imagined i was opposing such a super power. >> in april, the new york times revealed how wal-mart's leaders hushed up evidence of widespread bribery by the largest foreign subsidiary. now the times examines the relentless campaign of bribes behind wal-mart's most controversial store in mexico, in the data supermarket built in the shadow of a revered cultural landmark, the ancient pyramids of teotihuacán. >> one in five walmart stores are in mexico. walmart is mexico's largest private employer. we will speak with pulitzer prize winning journalist david barstow of "the new york times square and all of that and more coming up. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. six more victims of the newtown massacre were laid to rest on wednesday, four children, a teacher and principal of their school. the teacher, 27-year-old victoria soto was credited with saving half of her classroom by hiding the children in a closet and then telling shooter, adam lanza, there were in a different area of the school. the principal, 47-year-old dawn hochsprung, was reportedly shot dead after lunging at lanza in an effort to stop the shooting. six more funerals are being held today. at the white house, president obama formally announced the appointment of joe biden to form a new white house-led effort to reform the gun control policies. >> i have asked the vice president to lead an effort that includes members of my cabinet and outside organizations to come up with a set of car proposals no later than january , up with a congress that proposals delivered in january. this is not something where folks will be stepping the issue for six months and publishing a report that gets read and then pushed aside. this is a team that has a very specific task, to pull together real reforms right now. >> more on the newtown massacre and gun control and violence after the headlines. talks on averting the so-called fiscal cliff have hit a wall with both president obama and house speaker john boehner rejecting the other's latest proposals. at the white house, obama told reporters he thinks republicans continue to hold a personal grudge against him, opposing his plans "just for the heck of a." obama went on to promise a veto of the latest republican plan to begin taxing households making over 100 -- picking over $1 million rather the the $400,000 minimum proposed by the white house. he also rejected any effort to tie the fiscal cliff talks with the desolate as republicans did last year. >> i will not negotiate around the debt ceiling we're not going to play the same game we saw happen in 2011. which was hugely destructive. if you go to wall street, including talking to a whole bunch of folks has been a lot of money trying to beat me, they say it would be disastrous for us to use the debt ceiling as a cudgel to try to win political points on capitol hill. so we're not going to do that because the justice department has formally unveiled its $1.5 billion settlement with the swiss banking giant ubs for the company's role in the manipulation of the london interbank offered rate, or libor, which provides the basis rates on trillions of dollars in transactions across the globe. on wednesday, the assistant attorney general said ubs had played a key part in the reckless attempt to manipulate rates for profit. >> the banks conduct was simply astonishing. hundreds of trillions of dollars, credit card debt, student loans, financial derivatives and other financial products worldwide, are tied to libor. which serves as the premier benchmark for short-term interest rates. in short, the global marketplace depends upon all of us relying on an accurate libor. yet ubs, like barclays before it, sought repeatedly to fix libor for its own ends. in this case, so ubs traders could maximize profit on their trading positions, and so the bank would not appear to be vulnerable to the public during the financial crisis. >> according to transcripts released by prosecutors, ubs traders openly bragged about their prowess at rate manipulation and the financial benefits it brought. in one online chat in 2009, a key ringleader in the case was told, "think of me when you're on your yacht in monica." in passing it, ubs avoids criminal prosecution as well as potentially jeopardize and its parent company's charter. a military court has ruled u.s. staff sergeant robert bales will face a court-martial for allegedly slaughtering 16 afghan civilians, including nine children, in march. military prosecutors are seeking the death penalty while defense attorneys have argued that out all of these, drug use and post- traumatic stress disorder may have played a key role in filling his actions. on wednesday, bales attorney john henry brown accused military leadership of responsibility for sending bales to war. >> they should take responsibility for sending someone to high combat area who they knew had ptsd. he is disappointed, but he understands the gravity of the situation. he is working with all of us to try to avoid the first military execution in 50 years. >> bales pre-trial hearing included video testimony from afghans who survived the massacre, including several children who recalled watching their loved ones murdered. no date has been set for the trial. the united nations has issued a new appeal for $1.5 billion to aid those displaced by the fighting since syria. the u.n. says critical assistance is dated for those inside syria as well as the refugees who fled to jordan, iraq, lebanon, turkey and the to. >> the violence in syria is raging across the country and there are really no more safe areas where people can fully and find safety as most parts of the country have now become engulfed in violence, including in damascus. >> the combination of prolonged violence, the scale and scope of destruction, the winter that is already here has just intensified the urgency to scallop response. >> the u.n. says its latest appeal for syria marks its largest short-term humanitarian appeal ever. the u.n. now warns the number of syrian refugees will likely double to more than 1 million in the next six months. the obama administration has blocked a u.n. security council resolution condemning israel's latest expansion of settlements in the occupied west bank. israel has announced the construction of thousands of new settlement homes following last month's historic recognition of palestine as a nonmember observer state by the u.n. the white house publicly has criticized israel but refused to take punitive action. on wednesday, each member of the and security council, except the u.s., issued statements condemning the settlement expansion after the has refused to accept a binding resolution. and is in of the news conference, ban ki-moon said israel is undermining any remote chance of middle east peace. >> [indiscernible] very fragile peace process. you have seen my statement in the past, the times i have been condemning this illegal settlement. this is clearly a violation of international law. it is a violation guidelines and upsetting the peace process. >> the state department's head of security has resigned and three other officials have been dismissed in the wake of an inquiry's findings on the september 11 attack on the u.s. mission in benghazi that killed u.s. ambassador christopher stevens and three other americans. an independent panel probing the incident found -- panel vice chair admiral mike mullen unveiled the report's conclusions wednesday. >> the board found the attacks in benghazi, libya, were security related. responsibility for the loss of life, the injuries and damage to u.s. facilities rests completely and solely with the terrorists who conducted the attacks. that does not mean there are not lessons to be learned. the board found the security posture of the special mission compound was inadequate for the threat environment in benghazi and in fact, grossly inadequate to deal with the attack that took place that night. >> among the issues cited in the report is the high turnover rate of your security staff, faulty security equipment, and the use of unreliable local militias. the report found certain senior state department officials -- they didn't recommend disciplinary action against any individuals. secretary of state hillary clinton has accepted all 29 of the panel's recommendations. dozens of protesters turned out of the new jersey port to picket a container ship from bangladesh carrying goods for the retail giant walmart. the demonstration was after the factory fire in bangladesh that killed more than 110 workers. the factory have been used to make walmart apparel and the company allegedly played a role in blocking the improvement of safety conditions there. homeland security and port police blocked the demonstrators from approaching the ship as it unloaded its cargo. the action came as the bangladeshi government recommended criminal charges against the tazreen factory's owner for "unpardonable negligence >> leading up to the fire coming up, we will look at the situation in mexico with david barstow. a new study is predicting a current trends hold fatalities caused by guns in the u.s. will likely exceed those caused by traffic incidents for the first time by 2015. according to bloomberg news, while motor vehicle deaths dropped 22% from 2005 to 2010, firearm deaths are now on the rise from a low point in 2000. based on a 10-year average trend, gun deaths will jump to almost 33,0002015, while auto deaths will drop to 32,003 had experts attribute the shift to public policy, including stricter vehicle standards restrictions on young drivers and a number of new safety laws. those are some of the headlines. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. funerals continue in newtown, connecticut after friday's shooting rampage that left 20 students and six staff members dead at the sandy hook elementary school. for more children were laid to rest wednesday, as well as the principle of the school, dawn hochsprung, and teacher victoria soto. soto died while shielding her students from gunfire. she was remembered by a friend after her memorial service. >> she was one of the most beautiful people, like the release super popular person but she was friendly with everyone. she did not have a mean bone in her body. she was always smiling and laughing. you could hear her down the hallway. she was a great person. this is a tragic loss. we were going to have our 10- year school reunion. i was looking forward to seeing her and saying everyone again. quite the damper on things. >> meanwhile, president obama announced wednesday he would appoint a new white house-led effort chaired by vice president joe biden to reform gun control policies, which he would outline in his annual state of the union address next month. >> the fact that we cannot prevent every act of violence does not mean we cannot steadily reduce the violence and prevent the very worst violence. that is why i have asked the vice president to lead an effort that includes members of my cabinet and outside organizations to come up with a set of concrete proposals no later than january, proposals i then intend to push without delay. this is not some washington commission. this is not something where folks are going to be studying the issue for six months and publishing a report that gets read and then pushed aside. this is a team that has a very specific task, to pull together real reforms right now. >> president obama's refer to the ongoing toll from gun violence around the country since friday's attack. >> since friday morning, a police officer was gunned down in memphis, leaving four children without their mother. two officers were killed outside a grocery store in topeka. a woman was shot and killed inside a las vegas casino. three people were shot inside in alabama hospital. a 4-year-old was caught in a drive by in missouri. taken off life-support just yesterday. each one of these americans was a victim of everyday gun violence that takes the lives of more than 10,000 americans every year. violence that we cannot accept as routine. >> to talk more about the factors leading to gun violence from newtown, connecticut to the streets of cities like chicago, where the homicide rate spiked earlier this year -- more than 500 gun murders in the past year, and behind closed doors in cases of domestic violence, we're joined by goldie taylor. she lost both her brother and father to gun violence. she is an msnbc contributor and managing editor of the goldie taylor project lead she recently wrote a piece titled, "after my father and brother were murdered, owning a gun made me feel secure. now it's time to give it up." and she did just that on monday. goldie taylor, welcome to "democracy now!" let's go back. how you ended up getting your gun. tell us your life story. >> i grew up with guns. it was a part of our life. we grew up in east st. louis. having a gun was part of the family security along with having burglar bars and those kinds of things. when my father was murdered in 1973, my mother immediately bought a gun and kept it in the house for all of our lives. my brother was murdered in a similar fashion about 20 years later. it really took the family by storm. at that time, i bought my own gun. i did not want my sons to live the fate or end and the fate my father and brother had. i did what i thought i needed to do to protect. i had been a former marine, so i had weapons training. my stepfather had been a detective sergeant in the east st. louis police department. it was natural to me that a weapon in the house. but over the years, i have come to understand that having a privately owned, even though legal, weapon in your home, you are more likely to hurt yourself or someone that you care about them you are to hurt someone who is trying to hurt you from the outside. so those are the real statistics. but we have a real dilemma. my father and brother were murdered with illegal guns. this country is awash in them. the black market is inundated from los angeles to new york, chicago, atlanta or young men of color are using these guns on each other. as a consequence, also hurting children surrounding them. the university of chicago says one in five children who are hit by gunfire or not the intended target. there was a little girl in chicago on her mother's lap having her hair combed one warm evening in chicago. she was shot by a stray bullet and that is the tragedy in this country. something about new town really brings this home for many people who are impacted by violence on a daily basis. by turning my gun in, and i have watched and listened to others do so -- some of these cities have had record buyback programs and last 72 to 96 hours, and i'm proud of that. i am glad we're going to have a conversation about gun-control, finally, about mental health and access to it. i am really glad we're going to have, i believe, a conversation holistic we about just are violent culture in general. it is in our popular culture and popular media. >> i want to ask you particularly about the culture of the country. as you say, the illegal gun problem is a bigger problem in the inner city, but clearly in the suburbs of america, in the heartland of america, many folks with illegal guns, also sometimes engage in some of these or many of these violent acts. we're having a conversation for those turning their guns in, there is a section of the american people who are desperately clinging to this idea of their right to continue to have guns, even assault weapons. in the connecticut case, the mother watrained her children ad the use of guns. many americans do that. could you talk a little more about the culture of violence in america from your perspective? >> i believe in the second amendment, but as the president said, there is an awfully large gap between having the right to bear arms and then being able to own an assault rifle. i think there are certain kinds of weaponry that civilians simply should not have access to. there are certain kinds of ammunition that civilians should not have access to. i don't know why a civilian would need a hollow point bullet. that is something we ought to be able to regulate severely. i do believe people ought to be held have a shotgun if you're living in rural america for home protection if you choose to do that. it is your right. i don't happen to want to choose a for myself anymore. the idea that we as americans have a right to assault rifles and a right to have armor piercing bullets, i think that is simply a fallacy. i think the supreme court has ruled the individual right to bear arms for home self protection is something that is settled law for them. but what is widely open, you know, we regulate things like sudafed. i cannot purchase but so much of it and i have to go to my pharmacist -- i cannot buy it off the shelf anymore. why is it i think it online and order a bushmaster or beretta or mine mm -- .9 glock. 40% of the guns in this country are bought without a pro. background checks. there are some loopholes in our gun law and have to close them. >> we're talking to goldie taylor. when we come back, i want to ask you buy your own personal experiences with domestic violence and guns and let's talk about the inner cities, what deaths count and what don't. the horror we see in newtown, should it be a model for how the media covers all murders in this country? stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> marvin gaye, shot dead by his father with a gun that martin had given him as a gift. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. our guest is goldie taylor, managing editor of the goldie taylor project where she writes about contemporary, social and political issues. can you tell us your own story about the linkage of domestic violence and guns? >> sure. here in atlanta, i guess i have lived here 27 years now, during our first year here in atlanta, i met him i thought was the most charming man in the world. we moved in to gather, started college, a started to build a life within. not long after that is when the abuse began. he began to isolate me from my friends and family. he began to be little every single thing i did. then it became physically abusive. i felt trapped, even though my mother lived less than 10 miles away. i was afraid to tell her what was happening because for so many young women, there is an unfortunate culture of silence that sort of places they don't around what is happening in some of these homes. i remember a relative telling us when we were younger that what happens between that man and that woman is between batman and that woman. it is probably looking backed, the most unfortunate thing i've ever heard. it ended for me that i was stabbed in the back. there was a horrific beating where i was stomped and kicked, choked until i blacked out. i ran. i took an opportunity to run. i knew if i did not run, i was going to die that night. there is a scar on my left shoulder today from where he took a paring knife from the kitchen and caught me in the shoulder just as they broke through the door. he did not serve any jail time but it was broken down to a misdemeanor and later dismissed. i look back on that today and i and a stand there have been new laws on the books since that happened, including -- it is a little bit easier today to get a restraining order the navy is used to be. i am grateful for all of that, but what we have got to see is grass-roots action around providing women safe haven, and then providing counseling and therapy for the men involved. not only punishment, but treatment. an abuser will abuse again. hurt people hurt other people. i wrote about my story because there is a young woman in the news i kept hearing about the never heard her name. it was kasandra perkins. she was the girlfriend and mother of child of john belter. awoke to find he had shot her nine times and killed himself. relatives and friends recount the relationship was, as they said, troublesome. the nfl team had engaged the couple in counseling. i believe a lot of people knew it was coming. that one day he would kill her. and no one -- no one did a thing. i told my story because kassie and other young women like her are not here to tell theirs. three women every day in this country are killed in domestic violence situations, whether it is a knife, a beating, or a gun. all too often the gun makes it too easy. if there had been a gun involved in my situation, i am certain i would not be here today. >> goldie taylor, if you are former military as well. our country of is the has been involved in some in the military actions -- our country has been involved in so many military actions. how the military trains people in terms of weaponry and the implications after they get out of the military? >> one is the weapons train we receive, but also the care we do not receive when we come home. the level of ptsd among both the men and women who see action on the frontlines and those who don't is really at a level we have not seen in a very long time because we have engage ourselves in so many wars on so many friends. but when we come home, the treatment, the care that is needed, simply is not there. our be a system is largely broken. i don't know if he spent much time in a v.a. hospital, but it is a tough place to get through , to actually receive care. i think you get better care one of your county hospitals. i think it is to springs, one is the weapons training, but also coming home to civilian life and making that transition is not always as easy for some of us as amazing. >> finally, the violence in urban areas, goldie. how we cover violence in a place like newtown, this horrific massacre that has taken place, the worst massacre in an elementary school in this country's history, the worst school killing after virginia tech, and how we cover the constant violence in the inner cities like chicago, this figure of roughly 500 people killed in the last year, one quarter of them children under 18, and all of those cases, gun deaths. >> there is something very horrific about new town, that there were 20 children, six adults -- seven adults including his mother, because i include her even though she trained person to shoot any access to those guns, she was shot in her sleep. i think there's something horrific about that to be said aside, but the other 30,000 plus deaths in this country to gun violence, the way they are covered by media, the way they're investigated, the level to which they're prosecuted, the convictions and even the level of sentencing, all of those things are never determined by the race of the shooter, but as i found, but the race of the victim. and so you have african-american children, hispanic children here were i sit today, who are dying of gun violence. no one is talking about it. it is because as americans, we feel it is isolated or contained to certain undesirable communities, and if we just keep away from us, then it won't impact us. you see a flash of it on the nightly news or on a regular program in the morning. we learned about my father's death on a radio program. but to hear, to see the national coverage it has to be random and it has to be somebody who looks like us. i always said when the "that could happen to me" syndrome kicks in, that is when there is coverage, investigation and prosecution. that is when you see heavier sentences. i'm writing a piece now that is tentatively called "the color of light." sweet plays differing values on different lives according to race, gender, social, economic status and all of that. >> goldie taylor, thank you for being with us, msnbc contributor and managing editor of the goldie taylor project where she writes about contemporary social and political issues. she's speaking to us from atlanta at. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> just yesterday, my daughters came into the house and said, "data, how come i don't have good hair?" >> if you have good hair, you're pretty or better than. >> the latter, the brighter, the better. >> look at my ring. still there. relaxer is are the chemical that will take a black woman's hair from this and change it into this. >> it is kind of like a torture session. >> can you tell us how dangerous it is? >> it can burn through your skin. >> there was a clip of the 2009 documentary "could hear" started and narrated by chris rock. a tv station in shreveport, louisiana, ktbs, fired a meteorologist named rhonda lee after she defended her short, natural hairstyle on facebook. in october, of your name to emmitt vascocu, wrote on the station's page -- >> rhonda lee responded to the comment at length on facebook thread saying -- rhonda lee was fired by ktbs late last month from the station claiming she repeatedly violated company policy about responding to criticism from the words. we invited a representative from ktbs to join us on the show. they declined. instead it provided us with the following recording. >> unfortunately, television personalities have long been the subject of harsh criticism and negative your comments about their performance. it is harsh your comments posted on the official website, there is a specific procedure to follow. ms. rhonda lee was let go for repeatedly violating that procedure and after being warned multiple times of the consequences, if her behavior continued. rhonda lee was not dismissed for her parents were defending her parents. she was fired for continuing to violate company procedure. >> we're joined now by videostream, rhonda lee herself. can you respond to your boss house at the tv station and tell us about why he responded to the critics on facebook? again, rhonda lee, former meteorologist for ktbs in shreveport, louisiana of . >> there really is no policy. we received the memo that our general manager -- he says and august crude and will be honest, i don't recall seeing a particular memo. i have been locked out of the email system since i was terminated. i have only responded to to facebook posts that were not related to the weather. i'm not clear where multiple times ever came into play. i will be honest, there have been so few criticisms of what i did, it really is difficult for me to respond to criticism. it seems like a lot of people, more so, siding with my plight than i ever would have dreamed, frankly. it has been such a wild ride and i appreciate all of those reports from people coming back with inspiring messages and things like that. to say there was a policy in place -- there really is not, even to this day. to me when i said was a message that needed to get out. black female hair has always been a point of contention since probably biblical times. unfortunately, we have not moved quite where i think we should be as far as the level of beauty that is displayed and compared to with african-american women's hair. and i think we're making in poor strides today despite my circumstance. >> i want turn back to ktbs, its official statement read the station maintains you and another white male reporter were fired over violations of station policy about posting on facebook not because of your hair. >> never 282012, ktbs dismissed two employees for repeated violations of the stations written procedures. we can confirm that rhonda lee was one of the employees. another employee was a white male reporter who was an a-year veteran of the station. the policy they violated provided specific procedure for responding to your comments on the official facebook page. on august 30, 2012, and e-mail was sent to all news department employees informing them of this procedure. this procedure is based on advice from national experts and commonly used by national broadcast and cable networks and local television stations across the country. >> i would like to get your response. also, what they told you when they called you and to notify you that they were letting you go? >> what i was told what initially was that i was going to be able to have a meeting with the voice you heard there, my direct supervisor, news director randy payne. and this was right after i posted the other message about the three minute smile with a little kids. before that, i guess it would be in november with the three minute smile facebook post, i said i was very confused as to what it is i am supposed to be doing. we recently had received an email from the person who helps monitor the facebook page single should they be tried to start to monitor the page a little bit better. there have been viewer questions and if he can answer something, going to do something. i told my supervisor this for the time to reply, then i get any not on the other. tamiami of clarity? he said, you are right, this is rather ambiguous. that's called george, the general manager you just heard, and get some clarity. i said, great, and if i can help form a policy, i would do it. fast for about two weeks later, i was called in on my day off and told we were one to talk about baseball. i thought, well, i don't know why it cannot wait until i come in to mark, but fine. then i was fired. the second conversation never happen. that is why it is very frustrating. i was also told in his second meeting the following friday to try to get my job back, i was told by our general manager, the voice you just heard, that he did not find the messages to be all that racist anyway. he did not see a problem with it, so that is why he is sticking to his guns and was not one to rehire me back. >> can you talk about the november 14 incident in which a viewer objected to a segment called "3 minutes smile"? >> the 3 minute smile is a contest that we have and have had for a couple of years, randomly selected kids from the kennedy center on our website and are selected and to run through what for three minutes and grab all the toys they can read this year all of the kids were african-american. the viewer took issue with that and felt the fix was in in the contest itself was racist. of course -- he said he wanted to see the kids happy, but he felt perhaps it could have been less black, if you will. there should have been other races involved. i responded by saying the kids are selected at random. and if he really just wanted to see the kids happy, he had a funny way of showing it and told him "happy holidays." that was the last i heard about it. the message itself was on our facebook page for about -- for over a day. my response was up for about an hour-and-a-half before i was called in. my manager said, why do you feel you need to engage? i said, if we don't engage, we are endorsing. by not saying anything, we're saying it is ok to beat up on black kids. i said i don't think that is an image we want to portray in the community. >> what has been the response to your firing, rhonda lee, as you gain more and more national attention? >> i think it has been a blessing in disguise, for certain. i really had no idea this story would go all around the globe. i still continue to be overwhelmed and grateful for the support. the first day after the story broke, it was phenomenal. i went on to my fan page and had maybe 600 "likes" and that is said new fans, 800 and something. i said, that cannot be right. then suddenly i had 1000 fans, then 2000 fans, then 5000. i think i am up to 7000 now. this support has been overwhelming. i did not expected to go any further than texarkana, maybe into dallas a couple of hours away. it has opened eyes, most importantly. i feel perhaps this is what it was supposed to do. i really thought it was a labor dispute, but it turned into something bigger than myself, i feel. it has become a good talking point and a good catalyst for perhaps moving the conversation of black women and our hair forward into the 21st century and beyond. >> as a former meteorologist for ktbs, what is your forecast? do you think they will offer you your job back? have you been offered other jobs? >> i will let that my job back. i maintain even to this day i had a great work environment. i loved what i did, by co- workers. i had i had any other job offers as of yet. right now i'm just going to try to get to the holidays and see what happens. like i said, more than anything, i hope the conversation for the race issue, particularly here in the south, is spurred a little further than i think it has been. my forecast is looking pretty sunny, i think. >> rhonda lee, thank you for being with this, former meteorologist for ktbs in shreveport, louisiana, recently fired for responding to facebook comments, including one that criticized her hair. when we come back, new york times pulitzer prize-winning reporter david barstow on walmart bribes. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> we turn now to an exposé on the massive bribery scandal behind wal-mart's expansion into mexico, where the corporate giant now operates in one of five of its stores. >> in mexico, and a lover tell a bribery by one of the world's largest corporations, walmart. >> and never imagined i was opposing such a superpower. >> in april, the new york times revealed how walmart leaders hushed up evidence of widespread bribery by the largest subsidiary, walmart. now the times examines the bribes behind wal-mart's most controversial store in mexico, a supermarket built in the shadow of a revered cultural landmark, the ancient pyramids of teotihuacán. residents would fight for months to stop the stores construction, protests and hunger strikes pleading with walmart not to desecrate their heritage. >> i said, we have to stop this because no one can conquer teotihuacán. >> but evidence unearthed by the times shows walmart concord teotihuacán with more than $200,000 in bribes. payoffs were not authorized to buy an altered the zoning map and compliant mairead when wal- mart's leaders in the u.s. were confronted with incredible evidence, they did nothing to alert authorities. >> let me be clear, acting with integrity is not a negotiable part of this business. >> the new york times reports comes after walmart executives in the u.s. fell to fully investigate the corruption after is brought to their attention. now the u.s. justice department is considering whether walmart violated the foreign corrupt practices act, which makes it a crime for american corporations to bribe foreign officials. >> for more we're joined by the pulitzer prize-winning new york times reporter who broke the story, david barstow. he first detailed in april how "walmart hushed up a vast mexican bribery case." the times visited dozens of mexican towns and cities to document the payoffs the company used to get its way. david barstow, welcome to "democracy now!" lay out the story for us from april when you wrote your first piece. >> the first piece i wrote examined the concept, especially, of the leaders of walmart in bentonville. >> arkansas. >> an arkansas. when they're confronted in late 2005, someone who had been a lawyer for operations in mexico, a lawyer who had been in charge of getting all permits to build new wal-mart's in mexico, approached the company and laid out is really extraordinary story about how walmart de mexico had been routinely resorting to bribery in order to basically speed up and obtain permits, licenses, the zoning approvals on a fairly massive scale all across the country. and with a very specific strategic purpose, which was to accelerate walmart's growth in mexico. for those who don't know, walmart 20 years ago was not much of a presence in mexico. today, it is hard to overstate how thoroughly they dominate commerce in mexico. it is more than just the sam's clubs and the walmart's ec in the united states. it is department stores, restaurants, banks. >> one in five stores in mexico and the largest private employer and mexico. one in five stores of walmart's anywhere worldwide are in mexico. >> yes, over 221,000 employees. they have done this in a remarkably brief period of time. when this lawyer stepped forward and started laying out this information to walmart's top executives and lawyers in bentonville, arkansas in 2005, walmart initially took this traditional steps you would expect from a major corporation confronted with allegations of this sort. they immediately called for an internal investigation. they sent investigators to mexico city. they began digging through the auditing trail and internal sort of pay records to see whether or nine what this man had told them had merit or not. before too long, the investigators came back and said, you know what? it looks like there is something here. in fact, they wrote in a report that was sent to the very top walmart executives, there is reasonable suspicion to believe laws have been violated in mexico and the united states. what you're really referring to was the foreign corrupt practices act, which is the federal law that makes it a crime for u.s. companies to pay bribes to officials in foreign countries. but that is where the story starts getting unusual. that is what we focused on in april. rather than acting on the advice of their investigators, some of whom were basically former veteran fbi agents, instead they took the really unusual step of taking the internal investigation away from these experienced veteran criminal avesta gators in the united states, and handed it off to the man who at the time was the general counsel of walmart de mexico. that was extraordinary because the same gentleman had been identified as being one of the key participants and overseers of his reverie scheme. you're basically handing the case to investigate to some who is one of your prime suspects. that meant quickly wrote a report exonerating all of walmart de mexico and that was the end of the internal investigation. because of that decision in 2006 by walmart, which meant they never notified the justice department, never notified mexican authorities, basic questions about the nature of what the region on the ground in mexico, the impact, the extent -- those questions were never asked, never answered. so what we have done for most of this year is we have tried to basically pick up and tried answer those questions. that has involved traveling broadly throughout mexico, containing tens of thousands of pages of records about every permit that walmart obtained in mexico for a number of stores that we focused on, and involved basically penetrating inside walmart and obtaining hundreds and hundreds of documents of their own internal investigation, their own financial records. the story we published this week, finally, it is our attempt to answer this final question, was this a company that was effectively in spirit in a corrupt culture or the only way to build stores was to pay bribes? or was this something else? >> i want to ask you specifically about that. i found it fascinating. sometimes the new york times investigations are extremely long, this was long, but i read the whole thing because it was a fascinating. what amazed me in this particular story is how you were able to identify fraud that occurred, that even some of the local government officials were not aware had occurred. for instance, in the rezoning of this alfalfa field where walmart wanted to build a new store right outside of the teotihuacán. >> the city of -- >> that you discovered even the local officials were not aware how last minute changes were made in what they thought the zoning plans they had approved versus what was actually filed. again, because of bribes passed through the officials. >> it is certainly a tragedy in mexico the government investigations often don't go very deep. in this store that we focused on this week, which described is in this village barely a mile from this revered cultural landmark, the beautiful pyramids' that have been the release since the time of christ. the amazing thing about this community, this town has spent a couple of years seriously going through and try to figure out what was the correct the zoning scheme for the town. much like any town. we're all familiar in the u.s., zoning plans and meetings. this community have gone through this process. they set a couple of basic goals for themselves. one was the wanted to protect the area around the pyramids from development because that is the sort of thing that draws tourists to their community. they also have a lot of feeling for the parents themselves. they also wanted to protect the main entrance to the town, which is chronically congested with traffic. they wanted to try to do something about that as well. they adopted this zoning map that specifically said this alfalfa field that walmart had already targeted, this place they wanted to put a supermarket, they specifically adopted a matter that said, no, only houses can be built here. you cannot do in a commercial development. what we discovered three months and months of work in the archives and various agencies in mexico, we found the evidence that supported the internal documents we already had on our hands from walmart that showed that map, that field wal-mart's solution was to pay a bribe and have a man go in and change the zoning for just that field -- no where else -- so after the change was made, suddenly, they were allowed to build a supermarket. it is that kind of thing -- and that is the kind of thing we saw over and over and over again in mexico. there was a brazeness and creativity and aggressiveness to what walmart was doing in order to build stores. >> you're right, david barstow, none of the walmart de mexico leaders were disciplined. its chief executive, identified as the driving force behind years of bribery, was promoted to vice chairman of walmart in 2008. and to your article, the allegations and walmart's investigation had never been publicly disclosed. >> that is true. in bordeaux castro had been brought into mexico -- one thing important is that at the moment and think about in this case, and this time, 2004, 2005, walmart had been hitting kind of a plateau in the u.s., having a difficult time achieving the kind of unbelievable growth it had seen in decades prior. it pointed an awful lot -- when it would talk to wall street, there frequently pointed to mexico as this is an example of where our future lies in growth in foreign markets. mexico was walmart's first foreign market. today there in 27 foreign markets, including brazil, india, china, and a number of other countries around the world. they focused in terms of their growth strategy -- >> we have 10 seconds. >> that focused mainly on growth in foreign markets. some mexico was central to walmart's story about its own growth. >> david barstow, we will do part 2 and play it on democracynow.org. 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ArkansasUnited-statesLouisianaWest-bankAlabamaBrazilTurkeyMexico-cityDistrito-federalMexicoSyriaWashington on monday, she give it up. rhonda lee has been fired for defending her short, natural hairstyle on facebook. to the bribery aisle. how walmart got its way in mexico. >> and mexico, and a lever to tell a bribery and one of the world's largest corporations -- walmart. >> an ever imagined i was opposing such a super power. >> in april, the new york times revealed how wal-mart's leaders hushed up evidence of widespread bribery by the largest foreign subsidiary. now the times examines the relentless campaign of bribes behind wal-mart's most controversial store in mexico, in the data supermarket built in the shadow of a revered cultural landmark, the ancient pyramids of teotihuacán. >> one in five walmart stores are in mexico. walmart is mexico's largest private employer. we will speak with pulitzer prize winning journalist david barstow of "the new york times square and all of that and more coming up. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. six more victims of the newtown massacre were laid to rest on wednesday, four children, a teacher and principal of their school. the teacher, 27-year-old victoria soto was credited with saving half of her classroom by hiding the children in a closet and then telling shooter, adam lanza, there were in a different area of the school. the principal, 47-year-old dawn hochsprung, was reportedly shot dead after lunging at lanza in an effort to stop the shooting. six more funerals are being held today. at the white house, president obama formally announced the appointment of joe biden to form a new white house-led effort to reform the gun control policies. >> i have asked the vice president to lead an effort that includes members of my cabinet and outside organizations to come up with a set of car proposals no later than january , up with a congress that proposals delivered in january. this is not something where folks will be stepping the issue for six months and publishing a report that gets read and then pushed aside. this is a team that has a very specific task, to pull together real reforms right now. >> more on the newtown massacre and gun control and violence after the headlines. talks on averting the so-called fiscal cliff have hit a wall with both president obama and house speaker john boehner rejecting the other's latest proposals. at the white house, obama told reporters he thinks republicans continue to hold a personal grudge against him, opposing his plans "just for the heck of a." obama went on to promise a veto of the latest republican plan to begin taxing households making over 100 -- picking over $1 million rather the the $400,000 minimum proposed by the white house. he also rejected any effort to tie the fiscal cliff talks with the desolate as republicans did last year. >> i will not negotiate around the debt ceiling we're not going to play the same game we saw happen in 2011. which was hugely destructive. if you go to wall street, including talking to a whole bunch of folks has been a lot of money trying to beat me, they say it would be disastrous for us to use the debt ceiling as a cudgel to try to win political points on capitol hill. so we're not going to do that because the justice department has formally unveiled its $1.5 billion settlement with the swiss banking giant ubs for the company's role in the manipulation of the london interbank offered rate, or libor, which provides the basis rates on trillions of dollars in transactions across the globe. on wednesday, the assistant attorney general said ubs had played a key part in the reckless attempt to manipulate rates for profit. >> the banks conduct was simply astonishing. hundreds of trillions of dollars, credit card debt, student loans, financial derivatives and other financial products worldwide, are tied to libor. which serves as the premier benchmark for short-term interest rates. in short, the global marketplace depends upon all of us relying on an accurate libor. yet ubs, like barclays before it, sought repeatedly to fix libor for its own ends. in this case, so ubs traders could maximize profit on their trading positions, and so the bank would not appear to be vulnerable to the public during the financial crisis. >> according to transcripts released by prosecutors, ubs traders openly bragged about their prowess at rate manipulation and the financial benefits it brought. in one online chat in 2009, a key ringleader in the case was told, "think of me when you're on your yacht in monica." in passing it, ubs avoids criminal prosecution as well as potentially jeopardize and its parent company's charter. a military court has ruled u.s. staff sergeant robert bales will face a court-martial for allegedly slaughtering 16 afghan civilians, including nine children, in march. military prosecutors are seeking the death penalty while defense attorneys have argued that out all of these, drug use and post- traumatic stress disorder may have played a key role in filling his actions. on wednesday, bales attorney john henry brown accused military leadership of responsibility for sending bales to war. >> they should take responsibility for sending someone to high combat area who they knew had ptsd. he is disappointed, but he understands the gravity of the situation. he is working with all of us to try to avoid the first military execution in 50 years. >> bales pre-trial hearing included video testimony from afghans who survived the massacre, including several children who recalled watching their loved ones murdered. no date has been set for the trial. the united nations has issued a new appeal for $1.5 billion to aid those displaced by the fighting since syria. the u.n. says critical assistance is dated for those inside syria as well as the refugees who fled to jordan, iraq, lebanon, turkey and the to. >> the violence in syria is raging across the country and there are really no more safe areas where people can fully and find safety as most parts of the country have now become engulfed in violence, including in damascus. >> the combination of prolonged violence, the scale and scope of destruction, the winter that is already here has just intensified the urgency to scallop response. >> the u.n. says its latest appeal for syria marks its largest short-term humanitarian appeal ever. the u.n. now warns the number of syrian refugees will likely double to more than 1 million in the next six months. the obama administration has blocked a u.n. security council resolution condemning israel's latest expansion of settlements in the occupied west bank. israel has announced the construction of thousands of new settlement homes following last month's historic recognition of palestine as a nonmember observer state by the u.n. the white house publicly has criticized israel but refused to take punitive action. on wednesday, each member of the and security council, except the u.s., issued statements condemning the settlement expansion after the has refused to accept a binding resolution. and is in of the news conference, ban ki-moon said israel is undermining any remote chance of middle east peace. >> [indiscernible] very fragile peace process. you have seen my statement in the past, the times i have been condemning this illegal settlement. this is clearly a violation of international law. it is a violation guidelines and upsetting the peace process. >> the state department's head of security has resigned and three other officials have been dismissed in the wake of an inquiry's findings on the september 11 attack on the u.s. mission in benghazi that killed u.s. ambassador christopher stevens and three other americans. an independent panel probing the incident found -- panel vice chair admiral mike mullen unveiled the report's conclusions wednesday. >> the board found the attacks in benghazi, libya, were security related. responsibility for the loss of life, the injuries and damage to u.s. facilities rests completely and solely with the terrorists who conducted the attacks. that does not mean there are not lessons to be learned. the board found the security posture of the special mission compound was inadequate for the threat environment in benghazi and in fact, grossly inadequate to deal with the attack that took place that night. >> among the issues cited in the report is the high turnover rate of your security staff, faulty security equipment, and the use of unreliable local militias. the report found certain senior state department officials -- they didn't recommend disciplinary action against any individuals. secretary of state hillary clinton has accepted all 29 of the panel's recommendations. dozens of protesters turned out of the new jersey port to picket a container ship from bangladesh carrying goods for the retail giant walmart. the demonstration was after the factory fire in bangladesh that killed more than 110 workers. the factory have been used to make walmart apparel and the company allegedly played a role in blocking the improvement of safety conditions there. homeland security and port police blocked the demonstrators from approaching the ship as it unloaded its cargo. the action came as the bangladeshi government recommended criminal charges against the tazreen factory's owner for "unpardonable negligence >> leading up to the fire coming up, we will look at the situation in mexico with david barstow. a new study is predicting a current trends hold fatalities caused by guns in the u.s. will likely exceed those caused by traffic incidents for the first time by 2015. according to bloomberg news, while motor vehicle deaths dropped 22% from 2005 to 2010, firearm deaths are now on the rise from a low point in 2000. based on a 10-year average trend, gun deaths will jump to almost 33,0002015, while auto deaths will drop to 32,003 had experts attribute the shift to public policy, including stricter vehicle standards restrictions on young drivers and a number of new safety laws. those are some of the headlines. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. funerals continue in newtown, connecticut after friday's shooting rampage that left 20 students and six staff members dead at the sandy hook elementary school. for more children were laid to rest wednesday, as well as the principle of the school, dawn hochsprung, and teacher victoria soto. soto died while shielding her students from gunfire. she was remembered by a friend after her memorial service. >> she was one of the most beautiful people, like the release super popular person but she was friendly with everyone. she did not have a mean bone in her body. she was always smiling and laughing. you could hear her down the hallway. she was a great person. this is a tragic loss. we were going to have our 10- year school reunion. i was looking forward to seeing her and saying everyone again. quite the damper on things. >> meanwhile, president obama announced wednesday he would appoint a new white house-led effort chaired by vice president joe biden to reform gun control policies, which he would outline in his annual state of the union address next month. >> the fact that we cannot prevent every act of violence does not mean we cannot steadily reduce the violence and prevent the very worst violence. that is why i have asked the vice president to lead an effort that includes members of my cabinet and outside organizations to come up with a set of concrete proposals no later than january, proposals i then intend to push without delay. this is not some washington commission. this is not something where folks are going to be studying the issue for six months and publishing a report that gets read and then pushed aside. this is a team that has a very specific task, to pull together real reforms right now. >> president obama's refer to the ongoing toll from gun violence around the country since friday's attack. >> since friday morning, a police officer was gunned down in memphis, leaving four children without their mother. two officers were killed outside a grocery store in topeka. a woman was shot and killed inside a las vegas casino. three people were shot inside in alabama hospital. a 4-year-old was caught in a drive by in missouri. taken off life-support just yesterday. each one of these americans was a victim of everyday gun violence that takes the lives of more than 10,000 americans every year. violence that we cannot accept as routine. >> to talk more about the factors leading to gun violence from newtown, connecticut to the streets of cities like chicago, where the homicide rate spiked earlier this year -- more than 500 gun murders in the past year, and behind closed doors in cases of domestic violence, we're joined by goldie taylor. she lost both her brother and father to gun violence. she is an msnbc contributor and managing editor of the goldie taylor project lead she recently wrote a piece titled, "after my father and brother were murdered, owning a gun made me feel secure. now it's time to give it up." and she did just that on monday. goldie taylor, welcome to "democracy now!" let's go back. how you ended up getting your gun. tell us your life story. >> i grew up with guns. it was a part of our life. we grew up in east st. louis. having a gun was part of the family security along with having burglar bars and those kinds of things. when my father was murdered in 1973, my mother immediately bought a gun and kept it in the house for all of our lives. my brother was murdered in a similar fashion about 20 years later. it really took the family by storm. at that time, i bought my own gun. i did not want my sons to live the fate or end and the fate my father and brother had. i did what i thought i needed to do to protect. i had been a former marine, so i had weapons training. my stepfather had been a detective sergeant in the east st. louis police department. it was natural to me that a weapon in the house. but over the years, i have come to understand that having a privately owned, even though legal, weapon in your home, you are more likely to hurt yourself or someone that you care about them you are to hurt someone who is trying to hurt you from the outside. so those are the real statistics. but we have a real dilemma. my father and brother were murdered with illegal guns. this country is awash in them. the black market is inundated from los angeles to new york, chicago, atlanta or young men of color are using these guns on each other. as a consequence, also hurting children surrounding them. the university of chicago says one in five children who are hit by gunfire or not the intended target. there was a little girl in chicago on her mother's lap having her hair combed one warm evening in chicago. she was shot by a stray bullet and that is the tragedy in this country. something about new town really brings this home for many people who are impacted by violence on a daily basis. by turning my gun in, and i have watched and listened to others do so -- some of these cities have had record buyback programs and last 72 to 96 hours, and i'm proud of that. i am glad we're going to have a conversation about gun-control, finally, about mental health and access to it. i am really glad we're going to have, i believe, a conversation holistic we about just are violent culture in general. it is in our popular culture and popular media. >> i want to ask you particularly about the culture of the country. as you say, the illegal gun problem is a bigger problem in the inner city, but clearly in the suburbs of america, in the heartland of america, many folks with illegal guns, also sometimes engage in some of these or many of these violent acts. we're having a conversation for those turning their guns in, there is a section of the american people who are desperately clinging to this idea of their right to continue to have guns, even assault weapons. in the connecticut case, the mother watrained her children ad the use of guns. many americans do that. could you talk a little more about the culture of violence in america from your perspective? >> i believe in the second amendment, but as the president said, there is an awfully large gap between having the right to bear arms and then being able to own an assault rifle. i think there are certain kinds of weaponry that civilians simply should not have access to. there are certain kinds of ammunition that civilians should not have access to. i don't know why a civilian would need a hollow point bullet. that is something we ought to be able to regulate severely. i do believe people ought to be held have a shotgun if you're living in rural america for home protection if you choose to do that. it is your right. i don't happen to want to choose a for myself anymore. the idea that we as americans have a right to assault rifles and a right to have armor piercing bullets, i think that is simply a fallacy. i think the supreme court has ruled the individual right to bear arms for home self protection is something that is settled law for them. but what is widely open, you know, we regulate things like sudafed. i cannot purchase but so much of it and i have to go to my pharmacist -- i cannot buy it off the shelf anymore. why is it i think it online and order a bushmaster or beretta or mine mm -- .9 glock. 40% of the guns in this country are bought without a pro. background checks. there are some loopholes in our gun law and have to close them. >> we're talking to goldie taylor. when we come back, i want to ask you buy your own personal experiences with domestic violence and guns and let's talk about the inner cities, what deaths count and what don't. the horror we see in newtown, should it be a model for how the media covers all murders in this country? stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> marvin gaye, shot dead by his father with a gun that martin had given him as a gift. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. our guest is goldie taylor, managing editor of the goldie taylor project where she writes about contemporary, social and political issues. can you tell us your own story about the linkage of domestic violence and guns? >> sure. here in atlanta, i guess i have lived here 27 years now, during our first year here in atlanta, i met him i thought was the most charming man in the world. we moved in to gather, started college, a started to build a life within. not long after that is when the abuse began. he began to isolate me from my friends and family. he began to be little every single thing i did. then it became physically abusive. i felt trapped, even though my mother lived less than 10 miles away. i was afraid to tell her what was happening because for so many young women, there is an unfortunate culture of silence that sort of places they don't around what is happening in some of these homes. i remember a relative telling us when we were younger that what happens between that man and that woman is between batman and that woman. it is probably looking backed, the most unfortunate thing i've ever heard. it ended for me that i was stabbed in the back. there was a horrific beating where i was stomped and kicked, choked until i blacked out. i ran. i took an opportunity to run. i knew if i did not run, i was going to die that night. there is a scar on my left shoulder today from where he took a paring knife from the kitchen and caught me in the shoulder just as they broke through the door. he did not serve any jail time but it was broken down to a misdemeanor and later dismissed. i look back on that today and i and a stand there have been new laws on the books since that happened, including -- it is a little bit easier today to get a restraining order the navy is used to be. i am grateful for all of that, but what we have got to see is grass-roots action around providing women safe haven, and then providing counseling and therapy for the men involved. not only punishment, but treatment. an abuser will abuse again. hurt people hurt other people. i wrote about my story because there is a young woman in the news i kept hearing about the never heard her name. it was kasandra perkins. she was the girlfriend and mother of child of john belter. awoke to find he had shot her nine times and killed himself. relatives and friends recount the relationship was, as they said, troublesome. the nfl team had engaged the couple in counseling. i believe a lot of people knew it was coming. that one day he would kill her. and no one -- no one did a thing. i told my story because kassie and other young women like her are not here to tell theirs. three women every day in this country are killed in domestic violence situations, whether it is a knife, a beating, or a gun. all too often the gun makes it too easy. if there had been a gun involved in my situation, i am certain i would not be here today. >> goldie taylor, if you are former military as well. our country of is the has been involved in some in the military actions -- our country has been involved in so many military actions. how the military trains people in terms of weaponry and the implications after they get out of the military? >> one is the weapons train we receive, but also the care we do not receive when we come home. the level of ptsd among both the men and women who see action on the frontlines and those who don't is really at a level we have not seen in a very long time because we have engage ourselves in so many wars on so many friends. but when we come home, the treatment, the care that is needed, simply is not there. our be a system is largely broken. i don't know if he spent much time in a v.a. hospital, but it is a tough place to get through , to actually receive care. i think you get better care one of your county hospitals. i think it is to springs, one is the weapons training, but also coming home to civilian life and making that transition is not always as easy for some of us as amazing. >> finally, the violence in urban areas, goldie. how we cover violence in a place like newtown, this horrific massacre that has taken place, the worst massacre in an elementary school in this country's history, the worst school killing after virginia tech, and how we cover the constant violence in the inner cities like chicago, this figure of roughly 500 people killed in the last year, one quarter of them children under 18, and all of those cases, gun deaths. >> there is something very horrific about new town, that there were 20 children, six adults -- seven adults including his mother, because i include her even though she trained person to shoot any access to those guns, she was shot in her sleep. i think there's something horrific about that to be said aside, but the other 30,000 plus deaths in this country to gun violence, the way they are covered by media, the way they're investigated, the level to which they're prosecuted, the convictions and even the level of sentencing, all of those things are never determined by the race of the shooter, but as i found, but the race of the victim. and so you have african-american children, hispanic children here were i sit today, who are dying of gun violence. no one is talking about it. it is because as americans, we feel it is isolated or contained to certain undesirable communities, and if we just keep away from us, then it won't impact us. you see a flash of it on the nightly news or on a regular program in the morning. we learned about my father's death on a radio program. but to hear, to see the national coverage it has to be random and it has to be somebody who looks like us. i always said when the "that could happen to me" syndrome kicks in, that is when there is coverage, investigation and prosecution. that is when you see heavier sentences. i'm writing a piece now that is tentatively called "the color of light." sweet plays differing values on different lives according to race, gender, social, economic status and all of that. >> goldie taylor, thank you for being with us, msnbc contributor and managing editor of the goldie taylor project where she writes about contemporary social and political issues. she's speaking to us from atlanta at. this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> just yesterday, my daughters came into the house and said, "data, how come i don't have good hair?" >> if you have good hair, you're pretty or better than. >> the latter, the brighter, the better. >> look at my ring. still there. relaxer is are the chemical that will take a black woman's hair from this and change it into this. >> it is kind of like a torture session. >> can you tell us how dangerous it is? >> it can burn through your skin. >> there was a clip of the 2009 documentary "could hear" started and narrated by chris rock. a tv station in shreveport, louisiana, ktbs, fired a meteorologist named rhonda lee after she defended her short, natural hairstyle on facebook. in october, of your name to emmitt vascocu, wrote on the station's page -- >> rhonda lee responded to the comment at length on facebook thread saying -- rhonda lee was fired by ktbs late last month from the station claiming she repeatedly violated company policy about responding to criticism from the words. we invited a representative from ktbs to join us on the show. they declined. instead it provided us with the following recording. >> unfortunately, television personalities have long been the subject of harsh criticism and negative your comments about their performance. it is harsh your comments posted on the official website, there is a specific procedure to follow. ms. rhonda lee was let go for repeatedly violating that procedure and after being warned multiple times of the consequences, if her behavior continued. rhonda lee was not dismissed for her parents were defending her parents. she was fired for continuing to violate company procedure. >> we're joined now by videostream, rhonda lee herself. can you respond to your boss house at the tv station and tell us about why he responded to the critics on facebook? again, rhonda lee, former meteorologist for ktbs in shreveport, louisiana of . >> there really is no policy. we received the memo that our general manager -- he says and august crude and will be honest, i don't recall seeing a particular memo. i have been locked out of the email system since i was terminated. i have only responded to to facebook posts that were not related to the weather. i'm not clear where multiple times ever came into play. i will be honest, there have been so few criticisms of what i did, it really is difficult for me to respond to criticism. it seems like a lot of people, more so, siding with my plight than i ever would have dreamed, frankly. it has been such a wild ride and i appreciate all of those reports from people coming back with inspiring messages and things like that. to say there was a policy in place -- there really is not, even to this day. to me when i said was a message that needed to get out. black female hair has always been a point of contention since probably biblical times. unfortunately, we have not moved quite where i think we should be as far as the level of beauty that is displayed and compared to with african-american women's hair. and i think we're making in poor strides today despite my circumstance. >> i want turn back to ktbs, its official statement read the station maintains you and another white male reporter were fired over violations of station policy about posting on facebook not because of your hair. >> never 282012, ktbs dismissed two employees for repeated violations of the stations written procedures. we can confirm that rhonda lee was one of the employees. another employee was a white male reporter who was an a-year veteran of the station. the policy they violated provided specific procedure for responding to your comments on the official facebook page. on august 30, 2012, and e-mail was sent to all news department employees informing them of this procedure. this procedure is based on advice from national experts and commonly used by national broadcast and cable networks and local television stations across the country. >> i would like to get your response. also, what they told you when they called you and to notify you that they were letting you go? >> what i was told what initially was that i was going to be able to have a meeting with the voice you heard there, my direct supervisor, news director randy payne. and this was right after i posted the other message about the three minute smile with a little kids. before that, i guess it would be in november with the three minute smile facebook post, i said i was very confused as to what it is i am supposed to be doing. we recently had received an email from the person who helps monitor the facebook page single should they be tried to start to monitor the page a little bit better. there have been viewer questions and if he can answer something, going to do something. i told my supervisor this for the time to reply, then i get any not on the other. tamiami of clarity? he said, you are right, this is rather ambiguous. that's called george, the general manager you just heard, and get some clarity. i said, great, and if i can help form a policy, i would do it. fast for about two weeks later, i was called in on my day off and told we were one to talk about baseball. i thought, well, i don't know why it cannot wait until i come in to mark, but fine. then i was fired. the second conversation never happen. that is why it is very frustrating. i was also told in his second meeting the following friday to try to get my job back, i was told by our general manager, the voice you just heard, that he did not find the messages to be all that racist anyway. he did not see a problem with it, so that is why he is sticking to his guns and was not one to rehire me back. >> can you talk about the november 14 incident in which a viewer objected to a segment called "3 minutes smile"? >> the 3 minute smile is a contest that we have and have had for a couple of years, randomly selected kids from the kennedy center on our website and are selected and to run through what for three minutes and grab all the toys they can read this year all of the kids were african-american. the viewer took issue with that and felt the fix was in in the contest itself was racist. of course -- he said he wanted to see the kids happy, but he felt perhaps it could have been less black, if you will. there should have been other races involved. i responded by saying the kids are selected at random. and if he really just wanted to see the kids happy, he had a funny way of showing it and told him "happy holidays." that was the last i heard about it. the message itself was on our facebook page for about -- for over a day. my response was up for about an hour-and-a-half before i was called in. my manager said, why do you feel you need to engage? i said, if we don't engage, we are endorsing. by not saying anything, we're saying it is ok to beat up on black kids. i said i don't think that is an image we want to portray in the community. >> what has been the response to your firing, rhonda lee, as you gain more and more national attention? >> i think it has been a blessing in disguise, for certain. i really had no idea this story would go all around the globe. i still continue to be overwhelmed and grateful for the support. the first day after the story broke, it was phenomenal. i went on to my fan page and had maybe 600 "likes" and that is said new fans, 800 and something. i said, that cannot be right. then suddenly i had 1000 fans, then 2000 fans, then 5000. i think i am up to 7000 now. this support has been overwhelming. i did not expected to go any further than texarkana, maybe into dallas a couple of hours away. it has opened eyes, most importantly. i feel perhaps this is what it was supposed to do. i really thought it was a labor dispute, but it turned into something bigger than myself, i feel. it has become a good talking point and a good catalyst for perhaps moving the conversation of black women and our hair forward into the 21st century and beyond. >> as a former meteorologist for ktbs, what is your forecast? do you think they will offer you your job back? have you been offered other jobs? >> i will let that my job back. i maintain even to this day i had a great work environment. i loved what i did, by co- workers. i had i had any other job offers as of yet. right now i'm just going to try to get to the holidays and see what happens. like i said, more than anything, i hope the conversation for the race issue, particularly here in the south, is spurred a little further than i think it has been. my forecast is looking pretty sunny, i think. >> rhonda lee, thank you for being with this, former meteorologist for ktbs in shreveport, louisiana, recently fired for responding to facebook comments, including one that criticized her hair. when we come back, new york times pulitzer prize-winning reporter david barstow on walmart bribes. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. >> we turn now to an exposé on the massive bribery scandal behind wal-mart's expansion into mexico, where the corporate giant now operates in one of five of its stores. >> in mexico, and a lover tell a bribery by one of the world's largest corporations, walmart. >> and never imagined i was opposing such a superpower. >> in april, the new york times revealed how walmart leaders hushed up evidence of widespread bribery by the largest subsidiary, walmart. now the times examines the bribes behind wal-mart's most controversial store in mexico, a supermarket built in the shadow of a revered cultural landmark, the ancient pyramids of teotihuacán. residents would fight for months to stop the stores construction, protests and hunger strikes pleading with walmart not to desecrate their heritage. >> i said, we have to stop this because no one can conquer teotihuacán. >> but evidence unearthed by the times shows walmart concord teotihuacán with more than $200,000 in bribes. payoffs were not authorized to buy an altered the zoning map and compliant mairead when wal- mart's leaders in the u.s. were confronted with incredible evidence, they did nothing to alert authorities. >> let me be clear, acting with integrity is not a negotiable part of this business. >> the new york times reports comes after walmart executives in the u.s. fell to fully investigate the corruption after is brought to their attention. now the u.s. justice department is considering whether walmart violated the foreign corrupt practices act, which makes it a crime for american corporations to bribe foreign officials. >> for more we're joined by the pulitzer prize-winning new york times reporter who broke the story, david barstow. he first detailed in april how "walmart hushed up a vast mexican bribery case." the times visited dozens of mexican towns and cities to document the payoffs the company used to get its way. david barstow, welcome to "democracy now!" lay out the story for us from april when you wrote your first piece. >> the first piece i wrote examined the concept, especially, of the leaders of walmart in bentonville. >> arkansas. >> an arkansas. when they're confronted in late 2005, someone who had been a lawyer for operations in mexico, a lawyer who had been in charge of getting all permits to build new wal-mart's in mexico, approached the company and laid out is really extraordinary story about how walmart de mexico had been routinely resorting to bribery in order to basically speed up and obtain permits, licenses, the zoning approvals on a fairly massive scale all across the country. and with a very specific strategic purpose, which was to accelerate walmart's growth in mexico. for those who don't know, walmart 20 years ago was not much of a presence in mexico. today, it is hard to overstate how thoroughly they dominate commerce in mexico. it is more than just the sam's clubs and the walmart's ec in the united states. it is department stores, restaurants, banks. >> one in five stores in mexico and the largest private employer and mexico. one in five stores of walmart's anywhere worldwide are in mexico. >> yes, over 221,000 employees. they have done this in a remarkably brief period of time. when this lawyer stepped forward and started laying out this information to walmart's top executives and lawyers in bentonville, arkansas in 2005, walmart initially took this traditional steps you would expect from a major corporation confronted with allegations of this sort. they immediately called for an internal investigation. they sent investigators to mexico city. they began digging through the auditing trail and internal sort of pay records to see whether or nine what this man had told them had merit or not. before too long, the investigators came back and said, you know what? it looks like there is something here. in fact, they wrote in a report that was sent to the very top walmart executives, there is reasonable suspicion to believe laws have been violated in mexico and the united states. what you're really referring to was the foreign corrupt practices act, which is the federal law that makes it a crime for u.s. companies to pay bribes to officials in foreign countries. but that is where the story starts getting unusual. that is what we focused on in april. rather than acting on the advice of their investigators, some of whom were basically former veteran fbi agents, instead they took the really unusual step of taking the internal investigation away from these experienced veteran criminal avesta gators in the united states, and handed it off to the man who at the time was the general counsel of walmart de mexico. that was extraordinary because the same gentleman had been identified as being one of the key participants and overseers of his reverie scheme. you're basically handing the case to investigate to some who is one of your prime suspects. that meant quickly wrote a report exonerating all of walmart de mexico and that was the end of the internal investigation. because of that decision in 2006 by walmart, which meant they never notified the justice department, never notified mexican authorities, basic questions about the nature of what the region on the ground in mexico, the impact, the extent -- those questions were never asked, never answered. so what we have done for most of this year is we have tried to basically pick up and tried answer those questions. that has involved traveling broadly throughout mexico, containing tens of thousands of pages of records about every permit that walmart obtained in mexico for a number of stores that we focused on, and involved basically penetrating inside walmart and obtaining hundreds and hundreds of documents of their own internal investigation, their own financial records. the story we published this week, finally, it is our attempt to answer this final question, was this a company that was effectively in spirit in a corrupt culture or the only way to build stores was to pay bribes? or was this something else? >> i want to ask you specifically about that. i found it fascinating. sometimes the new york times investigations are extremely long, this was long, but i read the whole thing because it was a fascinating. what amazed me in this particular story is how you were able to identify fraud that occurred, that even some of the local government officials were not aware had occurred. for instance, in the rezoning of this alfalfa field where walmart wanted to build a new store right outside of the teotihuacán. >> the city of -- >> that you discovered even the local officials were not aware how last minute changes were made in what they thought the zoning plans they had approved versus what was actually filed. again, because of bribes passed through the officials. >> it is certainly a tragedy in mexico the government investigations often don't go very deep. in this store that we focused on this week, which described is in this village barely a mile from this revered cultural landmark, the beautiful pyramids' that have been the release since the time of christ. the amazing thing about this community, this town has spent a couple of years seriously going through and try to figure out what was the correct the zoning scheme for the town. much like any town. we're all familiar in the u.s., zoning plans and meetings. this community have gone through this process. they set a couple of basic goals for themselves. one was the wanted to protect the area around the pyramids from development because that is the sort of thing that draws tourists to their community. they also have a lot of feeling for the parents themselves. they also wanted to protect the main entrance to the town, which is chronically congested with traffic. they wanted to try to do something about that as well. they adopted this zoning map that specifically said this alfalfa field that walmart had already targeted, this place they wanted to put a supermarket, they specifically adopted a matter that said, no, only houses can be built here. you cannot do in a commercial development. what we discovered three months and months of work in the archives and various agencies in mexico, we found the evidence that supported the internal documents we already had on our hands from walmart that showed that map, that field wal-mart's solution was to pay a bribe and have a man go in and change the zoning for just that field -- no where else -- so after the change was made, suddenly, they were allowed to build a supermarket. it is that kind of thing -- and that is the kind of thing we saw over and over and over again in mexico. there was a brazeness and creativity and aggressiveness to what walmart was doing in order to build stores. >> you're right, david barstow, none of the walmart de mexico leaders were disciplined. its chief executive, identified as the driving force behind years of bribery, was promoted to vice chairman of walmart in 2008. and to your article, the allegations and walmart's investigation had never been publicly disclosed. >> that is true. in bordeaux castro had been brought into mexico -- one thing important is that at the moment and think about in this case, and this time, 2004, 2005, walmart had been hitting kind of a plateau in the u.s., having a difficult time achieving the kind of unbelievable growth it had seen in decades prior. it pointed an awful lot -- when it would talk to wall street, there frequently pointed to mexico as this is an example of where our future lies in growth in foreign markets. mexico was walmart's first foreign market. today there in 27 foreign markets, including brazil, india, china, and a number of other countries around the world. they focused in terms of their growth strategy -- >> we have 10 seconds. >> that focused mainly on growth in foreign markets. some mexico was central to walmart's story about its own growth. >> david barstow, we will do part 2 and play it on democracynow.org. [captioning made possible by democracy now!]
ArkansasUnited-statesLouisianaWest-bankAlabamaBrazilTurkeyMexico-cityDistrito-federalMexicoSyriaWashington hi, everyone. i'm jj ramberg. welcome to "your business," the show dedicated to helping your small business survive and grow. trust is key to any business relationship and deciding whom to trust is never easy. when all of your clients have been arrested before you have even seen them, it makes it harder, as you can imagine. this week, we find out how a mom and pop bail bonds business makes that difficult decision. ♪ >> tell him to take a deep breath, okay? we'll get him out of jail. >> she brings a gentle manner into an often harsh business, bail bonding. >> a family came into my office. the wife said my husband has been arrested. i said okay. sit down. let me help you. >> gale is the owner of lacy o'malley bail bonds in seattle, washington. she started there over 30 years ago as secretary. and then, 15 years later, when the owners retired, she took over. >> felony harassment. >> danny was a retired u.s. deputy marshal of washington state when gail invited him to join her company. >> when he retired i said what are you going to do all day? he said i don't know. i said, how about coming to work for me? >> a year later they got married. >> i got a great lesson from my wife the first week i was working here. a client called in and i said to gail, i have a crook on the line. she said, they're not crooks. they're clients. that's the only time that ever happened. >> today gail is president and danny is vice president. today their company bonds their clients out of jail so they can return home while they wait for their court dates. >> even though a person has been accused of a crime they allegedly committed, they still have rights. part of those rights is right to bail, which is what i do. >> we normally will hear from the client calling from jail. we will ask them, who can help you on the outside with collateral. >> we require two things, full premium, 10% of whatever the bail is and collateral for the full amount. >> finance a loan isn't enough to qualify for their services. >> i don't want to get into the ones that will be high-risk. >> one of the biggest is choosing clients who could trusted to return to court and face charges as promised. >> i want to know who i'm bonding out of jail, the families connected to them. >> with thousands of dollars at stake, a customer who runs away can be aggravating and costly. >> if they don't appear in the courtroom, the next thing we do is locate that person. if we can't do that, we don't find them, then we pay our forfeitture to the court and that's out of our pocket. >> most small businesses don't deal exclusively with criminal suspects as customers. nevertheless, every business owner face the same question. how do i know this client is going to be trustworthy? >> gail is wonderful with this. she'll say have you been in touch with your parents recently? well, no, i -- we're kind of estranged. we don't get along very well. that's a red flag. >> the red flag i listen for, this they're hesitant giving me personal information. if they're uncomfortable with letting us know where they live, where they work, that's a red flag. >> their next question is inevitably, are your grandparents alive, your grandmother alive? yes, she is. how are you with grandma? >> i haven't seen her much. grandma is the last one to give up on that kid. if grandma is not around, they'll probably be out the door. >> the green flag is connection with family, friends, people who still believe in them. >> they call it the circle of love. it's a simple and powerful formula which they use to screen clients. >> stacey, my name is denny baron. i'm in downtown seattle. i am calling on behalf of your friend. >> i am going to e-mail the documents to you and you'll take them to your grandmother's home for signature? okay. great. >> find the circle of love around a person. what that means is, when that person comes to the door, they make contact with us, who is it that is going to guarantee that they come back to their court appearances? because they love them. >> the flip side of this process is the important scale gail and denny place on making sure their clients trust them, enough to follow their advice. >> it is critical they trust us. it's from beginning to end. if we give good information, if we seem to care, and we do, that compassion, that builds trust faster than anything. having answers for the family, the family that's never been through this before builds trust. >> good afternoon, your honor. >> how are you doing today? >> good and gail. >> she's doing well. thank you. >> everybody knows them and respects them. i think their word is often taken without any question. >> john henry brown is a seattle based criminal defense lawyer. he says he has seen how the trust they build -- >> i appreciate your help on it. >> -- gives gail and denny leverage throughout the court system. >> they can also get somebody out of jail faster than i can, faster than a judge can. >> given the premium they put on trust, it's no surprise they turn away many more clients than they accept. >> probably out of every person that would call, eight people that call in, we'll write one bond out of those eight people. >> i need to fill you in after you left the courtroom. >> they say they never even read the police reports about the people they bond. >> of my 15 years in this business i read one police report. i don't need to know the allegations. i know what they are. my wife doesn't read police reports either. >> we don't invite them to our homes. it's a business. as a small business owner you keep it adds a business and it will take care of you. >> trust is a big part of rick russen's business as well. the owner of coast to coast computer problems hires employees who are also recovering from substance abuse. he says facing adversity can pave the way to being successful. >> well, you know, i kind of came up in a very dysfunctional family, a lot of alcohol abuse, violence. annual sales are right around 60 million right now. we currently employee 240 people. not only was i struggling with drugs and alcohol, i was suicidal as well. in september of 1985, at halloween party, i was defending a keg of beer, because that's worth defending your life over. i was actually stabbed during that party and ended up at the ucla trauma center with emergency surgery. lacerated liver. should have died. the rest is history. i've been sober for over 30 years now. i think probably one of the reasons i was willing to gamble is because people were willing to gamble is because people took gambles on me. there is well over 400 years of sobriety in the organization. >> when i came over here, he was not sober. i was going through a divorce at the time. what i found is from working here and being around other people that were sober, and seeing the destruction that alcohol is causing my life, you know, i started to look more into it and have been sober for about nine years now. >> october 1986. i was 23 years old. i'm going to be 30 years sober this year. rick allows me to bring in the people who need a second chance. we hired a lot of felons. even five duis would be considered felonies. they may not get a job anywhere else. if you give people chance they will clean up real fast for a job like this. we had a few people that didn't make it but as a whole my percentage is pretty good. >> it doesn't get any worse than me. i wasn't in a position to judge where people are coming from or what their pasts were lining. what i learned somebody who has those kind of challenges in life generally they're intelligent people. if you can channel that energy out of negative, into positive, what you end up with is a very loyal, very dedicated, hard-working person with a lot of drive who wants to succeed. >> the federal government has $2.5 billion it is dying to give to small businesses. every year. that's right. that is just money waiting to get in the hands of small business owners. now, here to tell us about how to access that funding is mark walsh, the head of investment and innovation at the small business administration where he oversees all sbic, sbir, accelerator and other growth activities. with him is the head of a company that received early stage funding, nina tanden is the co-founder of epibone, a company that is growing bone. what an interesting company. we'll focus on the funding. let's parse out sbic, sbir. >> sbic is a fund of funds. we have 4 billion a year that we invest in venture and private equity funds. those dollars are managed by those folks by small businesses around america. sbir is cash grants for companies that solve a problem. we find companies like our star here, nina, that solve a government problem or have fresh technology or new platform that the government is interested in. it's nimble, rapid procurement with your tax dollars making sense. >> those are grants. >> nondilutive, nonequity, cash grants. we give cash prizes, 50,000 bucks a year to accelerators around the u.s. doing great j s jobs. our last contest ended about a week ago. we're excited about the demographic distribution of our sk sell raters. it's startup capital, growth capital. >> how big are the grants. >> for a star like nina, a couple hundred thousand dollars in phase one which she received and then phase two, 1 million to $2 million which epibone got as well. >> tell us about this, how you found it. how did you get the money? >> the program is phenomenal when you look globally at what governments could do to support small business innovation. it is a stellar program. in our case, we even won a grant from nyced. new york city economic development. it's a grant essentially. you propose milestones, things you plan to do with the funds. if the milestones make sense and the preliminary data you show line up, you have a good chance of scoring a small grant. that's the first phase one grants are to help decide whether or not -- help you make a stage gate decision, do i want to go forward with something, yes, no, then from there you can take the business further. it's a great way to derisk a technology. >> are there rsps out there, request for proposals? how do i know if my company is the kind of company that would qualify? >> bingo. we have a site, sbir.gov which i challenge all of your watchers to go to. you can do a search there. the science foundation, national institutes of health, department of defense, there will be an rfp, a description of what they need. if you match it, hit the bid, we map it, check it out, give some dough to make sure you can validate and prove it and then introduce you to your first customer, department of defense, department of agriculture. it's a holistic way to get you started. >> you're not working with the government in your early stages. you're focusing your technology, developing a market like you normally would. later on down the road, if it works, you'll be introduced? >> in our case our first and second sbir grants were from the national institutes of health. that was very much lined up with what we were planning to do with the company anyway. it was great. we got a chance to stretch our investor dollars because we were using nondiluted funding toward those milestones. the third grant is with the department defense. that leads to other potential opportunities for us because we can collaborate with hospitals that are associated, for example, for clinical trials down the line. there's a whole host of opportunities that open up once you're kind of in the system. >> yours is very specific technology, right? >> yes. >> scientific and is it all about technology? >> no. far from it. as a matter of fact, the department of education has given through us, grants for games that help kids learn new languages. the department of agriculture funded a game online like sim city for farmers. for startup farmers, this game from the department of education and agriculture through the sbr program is showing first nine farmers how to succeed. it ranges far and wide. i would argue, i'm biased. it's one of the best uses of tax dollars around. it shows innovation can work. >> it absolutely makes sense, no matter what kind of company you are, you may as well go on there, type in a few key words and see if there's funds waiting for you. thank you both so much for talking about the program and sharing your story. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us. there's no point in having a company blog if the content you put out is boring and doesn't help your readers. that's why this week we give you some useful ways you can produce compelling material that will help expand your brand's reach, courtesy of yff magazine. one, understand your audience. keep away from lingo and stick with language they use. also, write in a tone your readers connect with. two, offer helpful tips your viewers will want to share. give them tools to easily row post to social media. in addition, identify influencers in your industry who can further expand the reach of your con ten. three, don't forget about pictures and videos. graphics are also a great way to make boring statistics interesting. four, add a personalized touch to your blog. talk about your own experiences. and use creative tools leak story bird and close cover to spice up your posts. five, end with a clear call to action. your content should conclude with what you want your readers to do, whether that's subscribe to your company's newsletter or connect on a specific social media account. we all remember kathy ireland has an icon from the '80s. the supermodel turn mogul is now one of the biggest names in business. she's the ceo of kathy ireland worldwide, a global empire worth more than $8 billion. she sat down with nbc's jenna bush hager to share lessons she learned along the way that can help small business owners. >> i'm kathy ireland, ceo of kathy ireland worldwide. nothing is impossible. if you can dream it, you can do it. her big dreams helped launch a global empire worth over $2 billion. >> kathy ireland for window world. >> kathy ireland weddings. >> kathy ireland home collection. >> her "sports illustrated" cover in 1989 is still the best selling issue of all time. but she was a business woman long before she was ceo of her own company. at 8, she became the first paper girl in santa barbara, california. >> my first day on the job i had a gentleman who was standing at the end of his driveway. he began yelling at me, what are you doing here? this is a boy's job. we have breaking news at the hour. we'll talk to president obama making comments in china about climate change. >> central to that effort. over the past few years, our joint leadership on climate has been one of the most significant drivers of global action. in 2014, president shi and i-- president xi and i stood together. we started an intense diplomatic effort to put other countries on the same course. in 2015 we stood together in washington to lay out additional actions our two countries would take along with a road map for ultimately reaching a strong agreement in paris. this year, in 2016, we meet again. to commit formally to joining the agreement ahead of schedule, creating the prospect of the agreement might enter into force ahead of schedule as well. the united states and china are taking that step today, as our two nations formally join the paris agreement. of course we could not have done this extraordinary work without the strong support of the secretary general of the united nations, mr. ban ki-moon who has been an outstanding leader on this issue as well. now, just as i believe the paris agreement will ultimately prove to be a turning point for our planet, i believe that history will judge today's efforts as pivotal. for the agreement to enter into force, this has already been stated, 55 countries representing 55% of global emissions must formally join. together, the u.s. and china represent about 40% of global emissions. so today we are moving the world significantly closer to the goal that we have set. we have a saying in america that you need to put your money where your mouth is. and when it comes to combatting climate change, that's what we're doing, both the united states and china. we're leading by example. as the world's two largest economies and two largest submitters, our entrance into this agreement continues the momentum of paris and to give the rest of the world confidence, whether developed or developing countries, that a low carbon future is where the world is heading. of course, the paris agreement alone won't solve the climate crisis. but it does establish an enduring framework that enables companies to ratchet down their carbon emissions over time and set more ambitious target as technology advances. that means full implementation of this agreement will help delay or avoid some of the worst consequences of climate change and pave the way for more progress in the coming years. this is the single best chance that we have to deal with a problem that could end up transforming this planet in a way that makes it very difficult for us to deal with all the other challenges that we may face. president xi and i intend working together in the months ahead to make sure our countries lead on climate. three months ago in california we resolved to work together to come up with a global agreement on hfcs. we're weeks away from final negotiations. we have a chance to reach a global agreement to curb emissions from the global airline industry, one that actually has the support of industry. today we're putting forward road maps to get both negotiations done this year. on each of these issues, the united states and china have now developed a significant record of leadership on one of the most important issues of our time. our teams have worked together and developed a strong relationship that should serve us very well and despite our differences on other issues, we hope that our willingness to work together on this issue will inspire greater ambition and greater action around the world. yes, diplomacy can be difficult and progress on the world stage can be slow, but together, we're proving that it is possible. as reflecting before we came in here with secretary general ban ki-moon about the meeting that we had in copenhagen, in my first year of my presidency. which was quite chaotic. and i think it is fair to say that, if you had looked at the outcome of that meeting, the prospects of us being here today, the prospects of a paris agreement, seemed very far away. and yet here we are. which indicates that where there's a will and there's a vision and where countries, like china and the united states, are prepared to show leadership, and to lead by example, it is possible for us to create a world that is more secure, more prosperous and more free than the one that was left for us. so to all of you that have participated in this extraordinary effort, thank you very much. thank you to president xi. thank you mr. secretary general. >> that is the president. he's addressing climate change. he's in china. the u.s. formally announced it will join the emissions cutting agreement reached in paris last year joining china in that agreement. right now we'll return to our programming. it's like 160 million people watch that chewbacca mom video. >> i watched it. >> the company is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. should puts on a chewbacca mask and gets attention. every company, big and small tea sheets the example. you go to twitter, periscope, have your own tv show, once a month provide some advice. interview a customer. show something off. do a demonstration, good out on site. you can come up with content to do. you can stream it live, save it and put it on youtube or vimio. >> how do you get people to watch it? >> the reality is true. there will be three people that will watch your show. you, your mom. your mom watches everything you do and some guy that will stumble on to it. it's not just a live broadcast. it's something to talk about before and after and then again, you'll save it and you'll put it on youtube and given time you'll start building up a library of these videos and it will attract more people to your company. so you've got to embrace video in 2016. it's a big thing. you and i should have our own show on dating and relationship advice. two hours once a month. invite all questions. >> it is going to be huge. >> fantastic. >> you're up. >> i would watch that show for sure. >> of course. we have lots to share. >> my tip for small business owners is don't trust your gut. it might be different than what you hear most the time, trust your intuition, which you have to do sometimes. i have four colossal, miserable go to market failures that could have been avoided had i used data to make decisions versus just what i thought would work. my tip for a small business owner, we've done it with many and it works, go to a white board, draw a line down the middle. on one side put what's working and on the other side, put what's not working. make your list. here's the kicker. at the end of it, you have to prove it. what data do you have to actually support your hypothesis that it's working or not working? if you don't have data, you've got to get it in offered to make sure it's working or not. it's this simpleple. if it's not working, it's okay. stop, iterate and try something else. if it is working, continue to invest in it until you have the point of diminishing returns. >> i think it's good to think about that in your staff meetings as well. not only not trusting your gut but don't trust what somebody says without them having data to prove it. because you hear all the time, we got a lot of e-mails on that or we got a lot of something. what does a lot of mean. a lot of may not actually be a lot of. >> you have to get the data in order to know whether or not it worked. if you don't have the ability to capture the data, put some level of infrastructure in to know. ask difficult questions. trust but verify. >> thanks to both of you. sifting through all the apps and websites can be around arduous task. we asked our viewers which they find most useful. >> one tool i use is agile crm. it's an app and website. it allows you to coordinate customer service, projects, calendar, everything you're offering business wise. and it's been great for me. i don't know all the ins and outs of it yet but i look forward to learning more. >> we just started a new pos system. it integrates our whole point of sale system with customer management and the whole team is able to use it from the beginning of the process all the way until we install the customer's project. >> one of the technologies we use at especially here is furkot. a free technology that allows you to map out the best route between any destination, any city nationwide. we use it and especially here, we're doing a road trip in the fall where we want to reach out to the curly haired community and we want to have suggestions where to go. it allows you to send out your route via e-mail or publish it online through social media. it's good for any business that wants to have face-to-face communication. this week's your business selfie comes from leia love. with a ba in business administration and a docktorate in professional cosmetology, she provides a wide view of beauty service and knows the importance of maintaining a great blog. pick up your cell phone and send us a selfie at msnbc.com. tweet it to @msnbcyourbiz, use the #yourbizselfie. thank you so much for joining us today. we would love to hear from you. if you have any questions or comments about today's show, e-mail us at yourbusiness@msnbc.com. please lass head on over to our website, openforum.com/yourbusiness. we've posted all the segments from today's show plus a whole lot more. connect with us on digital and social media platforms as well. we look forward to seeing you next time. until then, i'm jj ramberg and remember, we make your business our business. brought to you by american express open. visit openforum.com for ideas to help you grow your business. all i could think about was our deadlines racing towards us. a loan would take too long. we needed money, now. my amex card helped me buy the ingredients to fill the orders. opportunities don't wait around, so you have to be ready for them. find out how american express cards and serves can help prepare you for growth at open.com. the 1992 democratic convention was held in madison square garden in new york city. 1992 had been a tough democratic primary that year. there were a lot of contesteds, for lack of a better word, a lot of competition in the democratic party. because the democratic party really felt like there was a vulnerable incumbent to run against. they decided who they wanted to run at the democratic convention in new york city in 1992, they made it official, their candidate to run against george h.w. bush would be bill clinton. and conventions of course are largely scripted affairs, but you can't control everything,
United-statesNew-yorkParisFrance-general-FranceCopenhagenKøavn-DenmarkChinaCaliforniaWashingtonSeattle hi everyone. welcome to "your business", the show dedicated to helping your small business survive and grow. deciding whom to trust is never easy. when all of your clients have been arrested before you have even seen them, it makes it harder, as you can imagine. we find out how a mom and pop bail bonds business make that is difficult decision. >> tell him to take a deep breath, okay? we'll get him out of of jail. >> bail bonding. >> a family came into my office. the wife said my husband has been arrested. i said okay. sit down. let me help you. >> she is the owner in downtown seattle, washington. she started there over 30 years ago as secretary. 15 years later when the owners retired she took over. >> felony harassment. >> danny was a retired u.s. deputy marshal of washington state when gail invited him to join her company. >> when he retired i said what are you going to do all day? he said i don't know. how about coming to work for me? >> a year later they got married. >> a client called in. i said i got a crook on the line. she said they are not crooks. they are clients. that's the only time that ever happened. today gail is president and danny is vice president. today their company bonds their clients out of jail so they can return home while they wait for their court dates. >> even though a person has been accused of a crime they allegedly commit that i had still have rights. part of those rights is right to bail, which is what i do! we normally will hear from the client calling from jail. we will ask them, who can help you on the outside with collateral. >> we require 10% for the amount of bail and clollateral for the full amount. >> i don't want to get into the ones that will be high-risk. >> one of the biggest is choosing clients who could return to court. >> i want to know the families connected to them. >> a customer who runs away can be very aggravating and costly. >> if they don't appear in the courtroom the next thing we do have locate that person. if we can't do that, we don't find them, then we pay our forfeitture to the court and that's out of our pocket. >> nevertheless, every business owner faces the same question, how do i know this client will be trust worthy? >> gail is wonderful with this. she will say have you been in touch with your parents recently? well, no. we are kind of estranged. we don't get along very well. that's a red flag. >> the red flag is if they are hesitant giving me personal information, if they are real uncomfortable letting us know where they live, where they work, that's a red flag. >> the next question is inevitab inevitably, is your grandmother alive? how are you with grandma? grandma is not around they are probably going to be going out the door here. >> the green flag is connection with family, friends, people who still believe in them. >> they call it the circle of love. it's a simple and powerful formula which they use to screen clients. >> hi. i'm in downtown seattle. i am calling on behalf of your friend. >> i am going to e-mail the documents to you and you'll take them to your grandmother's home for signature? okay. great. >> what that means is when they person comes through the door who is it that is going to guarantee they come back to their court appearance because they love them? >> the flip side is making sure their clients also trust them enough to follow their advice. >> it is critical they trust us. if we give good information, if we seem to care, and we do, that builds trust faster than anything. having answers for the family that's never been through this builds trust. >> how are you doing today? >> good, sir. yourself? >> good. >> everybody knows them and respects them. i think their word is often taken without any question. >> john henry brown is a seattle based criminal defense lawyer. he says he has seen how the trust they build gives gail and danny leverage throughout the court system. >> they can also get somebody t of jail faster than i can, faster than a judge can. >> it's no surprise they turn away many more clients than they accept. >> probably eight people that would call we maybe write one bond out of those eight people. >> i need to fill you in after you left the courtroom. >> they say they never even read the police reports about the people they bond. >> of my 15 years in this business i read one police report. my wife doesn't read police reports either. >> we don't invite them to our homes. it's a business. as a small business owner you keep it adds a business and it will take care of you. the owner of coast to coast computer problems hires employees who are also recovering from substance abuse. he says facing adversity can pave the way to being successful. >> well, you know, i kind of came up in a very dysfunctional family, a lot of alcohol abuse, violen violence. annual sales are right around 60 million right now. we currently employee 240 people. not only was i struggling with drugs and alcohol, i was second-degr suicidal as well. i was defending a keg of beer. that's what's defending your life over. i was stabbed during that party and ended up at the trauma center with emergency surgery. i should have died. the rest is history. i have been sober for over 30 years now. i think probably one of the reasons i was willing to gamble is because people were willing to gamble on me. there is well over 400 years of sobriety in the organization. >> when came over here i was not sober. i was going through a divorce at the time. what i found is from working here and being around other people that were sober and s seeing the destruction that alcohol is causing in my life, you know, i started to look more into it and have been sober for about nine years now. >> october 1986, and rick allows me to bring in the people who need a second chance. we hired a lot of felons. even five dui's would be a felony. if you give people chance they will clean up real fast for a job like this. we had a few people that didn't make it but as a whole my percentage is pretty good. >> i wasn't in a position to judge on what their pasts were like. what i learned is somebody who has those kientd of challenges in life, generally they are intelligent people. if you can channel that out of negative into positive you end up with a very loyal, very dedicated hard working person with a lot of drive who wants to succeed. the federal government has $2.5 billion it is die to go give to small businesses every year. that's right. it is money waiting to get in the hands of small business owners. here to tell us how to access that funding is mark walsh. he oversees all sbic, sbir. nina is the cofounder of a company growing human bones for skeletal reconstruction. what an interesting company. we will focus ton funding. before we get into the details of how to get the money let's tell what it is. >> we have about 4 billion a year we invest in private equity funds. they are managed into small businesses. surgeons general sbir, we get research of defense, and we then find companies that solve a government problem or have fresh ne technology. it is your tax dollars making sense. >> and those are grants. >> those are nonequity. we have an accelerator program that are doing great jobs. we are very excited about it. it is start up capitol and growth capitol. >> how big are the grantgrants? >> phase one. >> so let's get to the heart of this, which is how do you get at that money? maybe you can tell us how you found it. how did you get the money? >> well, the sbir program is phenomenal when you look at what small businesses can do. it really is a stellar program. we even won a grant from new york city economic development to help us with our application for sbir. it is a grant essentially. you propose milestones and what you plan to do with the funds. if they make sense and preliminary data line up you have a good chance of skcoring small grant. you know, do i want to go forward with something? from there you can take the business further. it is a really great way to derisk a technology. >> are there rfp's out there? how do i know if my company would qualify for one of these grants? >> we have a web site which i challenge all of your watchers to go to right now. you can find an rfp from national institutes of health, department of defense. you'll find a description of what they need. you hit the bid, tell us what you do. we map it, check it out and make sure you can validate it and improve it and then introduce you to your first customer. it's a wholistic way to get you started and find a customer. >> so you're just focusing on developing technology and developing a market like you normally would and later down the road if it works then you'll be introduced? >> well, in our case actually our first and second sbir grants were from the national institute of health. it was lined up with what we were planning to do anyway. we were using nondluted funding. third grand is with the department of defense. it leads to potential opportunities for us. we can collaborate with clinical trials down the line. there is a whole host of opportunities that open up once you're in the system. >> your is a very specific -- is it all about technology? >> no. far for it. the department of education have given money for game to help learn new languages. they have funded a game online like sim city for farmers. for start up farmer this through the sbir program is showing first-time farmer how the succeed. it ranges far and wide. i'm biassed. it is one of the best around. >> it absolutely makes sense. you may as well go on there, type in a few keywords and see if there are any funds waiting for you. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> we really appreciate it. >> thanks for having us. there's no point in having a company blog if the content you put out is boring and doesn't help your readers. we give you useful ways to help expand your brand's reach. one, understand your audience. keep away from lingo. write in a tone your readers connect with. two, offer helpful tips your viewers will want to share. give them tools to easily repost the social media. identify those who can further extend the reach of your cont t content. three, don't forget about pictures and videos. four, add a personalized touch to your blog. talk about your own experiences and use creative tools like story bird to spice up your post. and five, end with alear call to action. your content should conclude with what your want your read toe ers to do. we all remember kathy ireland but you may not realize the super model turned mogul is one of the biggest names in business. she is the ceo of a global empire worth more than $8 billion. she sat down to share a lesson she learned along the way to help small business owners. >> i'm kathy ireland. nothing is impossible. if you can dream it you can do it. >> it helped launch a global empire worth over $2 million. >> kathy ireland from window world. >> her sports illustrated cover is still the best silling issue of long time. she was businesswoman long before she was ceo of her own company. at eight she became the first newspaper girl. >> a gentleman just began yelling at me. what are you doing? this is a boy's job. >> what did it teach you? >> it was my first taste of discrimination. it really instilled that fighting spirit in me because there was no logical reason why i couldn't have the job based on my gender. >> a lesson she would hold onto when she was building kathy ireland worldwide. >> diamonds, sleep ware, ceiling fans, windows, furnitures, bras, rugs, suits, music, destination weddings and that's just the beginning. how do you get into so many different product sns. >> i love what i do. it's exciting. >> her company began with a pair of socks in 1993. >> i read somebody said that's dumb idea. why did you decide to take that advice and throw it out the window? >> i knew it was a good idea. socks really felt like a foundation. if women would embrace something as basic as a sock that would tell us if we were onto a real brand. >> more than 20 years later she designed and markets some 17,000 products. a key to her success, not just endorsing products but licenses them. she has razor sharp taet middle america's mom, something she can relate to as a mom of three. >> i mean early on there was someone who wrote something that was rather unkind, called me a bimbo. i found out who he was and called him. i said i need to get to know you. i don't think you understand what our company is all about. >> ireland proved them wrong. her top rules in business? >> i would say consider others as more important than yourself. it works. i believe that all that you give is all that you get, so give it all you've got. and don't do anything half measure. really put your heart into what you do. >> talk to me about how he inspired you. >> he share that had fashion and appar apparel, but in the home it is much more steady, so i listen. he believed -- >> you know, wanting to be the first paper girl what would you tell that little girl after everything you learned about ge? >> i would tell that little girl you continue to work hard and work and work well, work fairly. . . american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comesext. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. so we're always looking to target as many consumers online as possible. any advice on how to reach bigger audiences, we'd be interested in looking at. >> i would make the case no matter what industry you're in, there's some aspect of content that you could get into whether it's blogging, whether it's social media, whether it's writing for other media out there. you want to look at what is the best way to tell your story. it could be about your product. it could be about your service. it could be about your company itself. do you have interesting employees? more and more people want to have brands they feel a connection with, a personal connection. the first step is understanding what is that story, what do we want to tell, then looking at the best vehicle for telling it. we now have the top two tips you need to know to help your small business grow. let's introduce our panel and get their advice. gene marks is the president and founder of the marks group. he's also columnist for "the washington post." and matt is part of a time tracking and scheduling tool for companies with hourly employees. >> great to be here. >> i feel we should also put in your intro i often come to you for advice when i have small business questions of my own. so fantastic for us to get you ask you for the audience. what's one tip you have? >> i have a big tip in 2016. look, the whole internet is going video. when i talk to different clients and i talk how they're going to expand their businesses. i keep saying this is the year where you need to become a video star. start your own video show. facebook live, there's like 160 million people watched that chewbacca mom video. big companies spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and look at this. she puts on a chewbacca mask and gets attention. t-sheets is a great example. when you go to facebook live, google hangouts, have your own tv show on there. once a month provide some advice, interview a customer, show something off, do a bit of a demonstration. you can come up with some content to do. you can stream it live, save it and put it on youtube or vimeo. >> how do you get people to watch it? anyone can put something else. >> the reality is true. there will be three people to watch it. you, your mom's going to watch it because mom watches everything you do. and some guy with stumble to it. it's not just the live broadcast. it's something to talk about before and after. then again, you'll save it and put it on youtube. given time, you'll build up a library of these videos and it will attract more people to your company. you've got to embrace video in 2016. you and i should do that. we'll have our own show on dating and relationship advice. what do you think? two hours once a month. >> it's going to be huge. >> fantastic. >> all right. you're up. >> well, i would watch that show, for sure. >> of course. we have lots to share. >> my tip for small business owners is don't trust your gut. where it might be a little different than what you hear most of the time. trust your intuition. which you have to do sometimes. but i have four colossal, miserable, go to market failures that could have been avoided had i used data to make decisions versus just what i thought would work. so my tip is for a small business owner is draw a line right down the middle of the white board. once i put what's working and on the other side put what's not working. make your list. here's your kicker. at the end of it, you have to prove it. what data do you have to support your hypothesis that it's working or not working. if you don't have data, you've got to get it. and it's this simple. if it's not working, it's okay. stop, iterate, and try something else. >> i think it's good to think about that in your staff meetings as well. not only not trusting your gut, but don't trust what somebody says without them having data to prove it. you hear all the time we got a lot of e-mails on that. or we got a lot of something. what does a lot of mean? it may not be a lot of. >> you have to get the data to know whether or not it worked. if you don't have the ability to get the data, put a level of infrastructure in to know. trust but verify. >> thank you. sifting through all the apps and websites that can help you run your company can be an arduous task. so we asked our viewers which ones they find most useful in this small biz tools. >> one tool that i use is agile crm. it's both an app and a website. and it allows you to seamlessly coordinate your service, your calendar, everything you're offering businesswise. and it's been great for me. i don't know all the ins and outs of it yet but i look forward to learning more. >> we've been doing core bridges for pos system. the whole team is able to use it from the beginning of the process all the way until we install the customers' project. >> one of the technologies we use especially here is furkot. it wraps out the best destination between any target. we're doing a road trip in the fall where we want to reach out to the curly haired community and we want suggestions as where to go. it allows you to send out your route via e-mail or publish it online to your social media community. i think it's good for any business that wants to have face-to-face communication. >> this week's your biz stefl fee comes from leia love. the owner of leia love hair and salon in ohio. with a b.a. and a doctorate, she provides a wide range of beauty services and knows the importance of maintaining a great blog with a lot of beauty tips on her website. now why don't you pick up your cell phone and take a picture of you and your business and send it to us so we can feesh it here on the show. or you can tweet it to us. please use the #yourbizselfie. thank you so much for joining us today. we would love to hear from you. if you have questions or comments about today's show, e-mail us or head over to our website. it's open forum.com/yourbusiness. and don't forget to connect with us on all of our social media platforms as well. we look forward to seeing you next time. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg. and remember we make your business our business. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? our new cocktail bitters were doing well, but after one tradeshow, we took off. all i could think about was our deadlines racing towards us. a loan would take too long. we needed money, now. my amex card helped me buy the ingredients to fill the orders. opportunities don't wait around, so you have to be ready for them. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. explosive accusations in the 2016 fight. pushing thelection into new territory. >> hillary clinton is a bigot who sees people of color only as votes. >> he is taking hate groups mainstream and helping a radical fringe. >> one on one with pastor mark burns, gregory meeks, and hugh hewitt. also from the foundation to the e-mails. challenges facing hillary clinton. plus surprise endorsements from gun control groups. can republicans be trusted to stand by their word? and bending towards justice. what does a second chance look like? >> i signed my papers and
United-statesNew-yorkOhioWashingtonSeattleAmericaAmericanHugh-hewittGregory-meeksJohn-henry-brownKathy-irelandHillary-clinton by american express open, helping you get business done. >> hi, everyone. i'm jj ramberg and welcome to "your business," the show dedicated to helping your growing business. have you ever heard of conversational commerce? if not, pay attention, because it is changing the way consumers shop. it's basically where shopping meets messaging. we wanted to see how it all works so we followed along with a company dirty lemon, that has ditched the traditional distribution and is now relying 100% on text. ♪ if you want to buy a dirty lemon, there's only one way to do it. >> every transaction that we have had, every person that has purchased the product, has bought via text message. >> that means you can't find dirty lemon in a store, a restaurant, a vending machine or any other place you would usually look for a drink like this. you want to try one? you have to order at least a case and start tapping on your phone. >> there's an incredible opportunity in the beverage space, as largely held by two very large organizations, which is coke and pepsi. and i think that they are offering products to consumers that they don't want. >> when zack norman launched the company two years ago, he knew he had to do something different stoond out. he had already mastered that in the flavors like collagen, charcoal and ginseng, but he had to be innovative in the way he ran the business in order to compete with the big guys. this beverage expert thinks dirty lemon could be on to something. >> texting is a global communications forum. and they have harnessed it beautifully. so to be able to order dirty lemon exclusively by text helps build cult. that's sort of this interaction, there's again the exclusivity and the intimacy in that. in that way, it's very disruptive. >> text message historically is reserved for close friends and family. and i feel lucky as a business to be communicating with customers over that medium. >> he had considered an app or website but found them to be too cumbersome. >> this is unique because it's platform agnostics. you can order dirty lemon on an iphone if you want to and just order the product. and sms is, i think, the most common means of communication of our time. it just makes sense for us to be there. >> reporter: zack found inspiration in casper, dollar shave club and warby parker that cut out the middle-man and created direct-to-consumer model. >> when we launched the company, we started to think through ways to this is dirty lemon owns it. >> every dollar we use to continue to entice the monitor, we can continue to advertise in the future and in the future. most of the times, the money just goes to $65. >> with someone who has deep pockets and needing a luxury organic experience, you don't find this at a grocery store. >> dirty lemon's packaging reminds you to remind yourself that you're fabulous. that is sort of what thaw do. it's i hold this. i take this out of my celine handbag with my iphone x and i'm fabulous. that's the primary message of the packaging. that's particularly true because they don't have a retail presence. so they didn't create the packaging to necessarily be disruptive on a retail store shelf. they did it so they could be an accessory for the type of consumer that thinks this product will work for them. >> reporter: zack wants to be at the cutting edge of all parts of his business. so he concentrated heavily on machine learning, helping to drive parts of his business like customer service. >> if you say, can i get an update on my tracking? the system knows based on that stream of words you're looking for a tracking label. if you say, i'm pregnant right now, i have a question on this specific ingredient or something, it will held to customer service. >> this means he can provide top-notch customer service without a large team of people. and the very close and immediate relationship he has with his customers gives him a clear platform to try out new things. >> we're able to integrate very quickly, put it into the market, test things on a very, very small level and then roll it out to our national audience if we see success with it, because we are not dependent on shelf space to run our business. >> much of what they do is run by data which they collect via text and once in a while the good-old fashioned way, in person. on valentine's day, they launched a new drink, rose. all they had to do was text their existing customers and invite them to a pop-up shop where they could sample the flavor. >> that was a concept we came up with last summer. and now we're in the data we collected there and are launching this to a national audience. >> so far this mentd is working for dirty lemon, but author cautions those following too closely. >> the ability for a brand to use text the way dirty lemon has depends on the specific product that has a specific marketing approach in how they talk to the consumer, again, as mass aztecs -- as text is, i'm convinced consumers want to purchase that way. >> as technology changes, so will the company. and he says they will continue to try to stay on the cutting edge. >> there's an opportunity for the beverage to be disrun tuf. and we are giving it our best shot to be there in that space. trust is key to any business relationship. and deciding who to trust is not that easy. when all of your clients before you even see them, it can be difficult. a-pop up shop. you can to make sure you trust them but that they trust you. >> tell him to take a deep breath, okay? we'll get him out of jail. >> gail branden-baron is the owner of malley bonds in downtown washington. she started there 30 years ago as a secretary. and then 15 years later when the owners took over, she was handed the business. gail invited hum to join her company. >> when he retired, i said, what are you going to do all day? he said, i don't know, and i said, how about you come work for me? >> i had a clunt and saient and have a crook on the line. she said, they're not crooks, they're clients. that's the only time that happened. >> gail is president, denny is vice president. together their company bonds their climates out of jail. so they can return home. >> the only person who has been allegedly accused of a crime. and that is requiring full premium, 10%, whatever the amount is. and require collateral for the full amount. >> fortunesing for a low is not enou enough. one of the biggest things they need to do is face questions on who they are bonding out of jail with thousands of dollars connected to each other is costly. >> if we don't pay them, we pay the forfeiture to court. >> most businesses don't deal exclusively with defense customers, but nefrlvertheless,w do i know this client is trustworthy? >> the red flag i listen to is if thaw are hesitant in giving personal information. if they're really uncomfortable with if lets uh know where thaw live. that's a red flag. >> and then the next question is, are you a grandma? grandma's not around, they will probably be going out the door here. >> the green flag is connection with family, friends, people who still believe him. >> they call it a circle value of love. >> i will e-mail the documents to you and you take them to your grandmother's house for signature? okay, great. >> and what that means is that when that person comes to the door, who is it that is going to guarantee that they come back with their court appearance? >> the flip side is that they make sure share clients trust them, enough to follow their advice. >> it is critical that they give us good information. if we seem to care and we do. that builds trust, faster than anything. and having answers for the family, a family that has never been through this before builds trust. >> everybody knows them and respects them. i think denny and gail's word is often taken without any question. >> john henry brown is a seattle-based criminal defense lawyer who says he's seen how the trust they -- >> given the premium the baron's place on trump, it's no surprise they turn away many more clients than they accept. i need to full you in on what happened up there after you left the courtroom. >> they say they never read the police reports, but i already know the allegations. >> you keep as a business and they will take care of you. starting something from scratch is never easy, but seeing others do it gives us all a little inspiration when things are getting tough in our business. jane brown hull went on from -- here is savannah guthrie with her story. >> here we are. >> wow. >> this is like home sweet home. that feeling that we all know, having the space in the world that you feel comfortable. >> your business sense is to make homes feel a little sweeter. >> yeah, exactly. >> jean brown is a ceo that matches homeowners with work for their renovation. >> a lot of people look around and say, i would like for it to look better but are totally overwhelmed by the process. is that where you come in? >> so, yes. we have done thousands of renovations at this point. >> in 2007, jean began renovations on her own f. i was like, i got this and not this. and i thought, i think i have a better way to do it. i was like, i know how to solve this. >> on sweeten's website, homeowners complete a form on the renovation and are matched with three contractors. who is right for their renovation project. >> we then follow your project from the starting point all the way to completion. we make sure that our guys are doing a great job and you got to give them a rating. the great thing about it is we can do it for free against the homeowner. so some people even call me the contract whisperer. >> what does that mean, the contract whisperer? >> i'm unlikely champions for those who want to be painted with a broad anding intive brush stroke. and general contractors have. >> jean grew up in new london, connecticut. for the earliest age, she learned no job is too small. >> i was that kid who was scooping up and boulding stuff. my counselor said, you should be an architect. not knowing what that was, my dad's mom grew up in the south, after an african-american woman, she couldn't read or write her whole life. i watched her sign her name as an x. oh, tired. this is, like, too much. i'm like, oh, come on. >> jean's hard work has paid off as sweeten has $990 million in investment projects. what is your idea for those who have the entrepreneur moment? what would you tell them? >> i have two pieces of advice. don't quit. and keep smiling. >> what do you think makes a good boss? >> one of the things i have definitely learned the most out of this whole experience is that you be yourself. i'm being the best i can be. that's the best thing that i can do as a boss, to encourage people to do that. i'm here with brian long at southwest who just got off a panel to talk about what we're going to talk about here. you're the founder of keep. can you explain what that is. >> something that is rewarding. imagine finishing a run in a running app. good d . >> it used to be if you would go to buy an expensive ad on television or you couldn't afford it. now places are expensive that you want to go, et cetera. >> everyone wants a lot of eyeballs the. that traditionally set of performan performance. there's things like cost for act weation, cost for purchase. these are the types of metrics that a facebook and google have to wake up to. so there are now ways to use tools to see how effective your ad was to literal ly the way yo bought it. >> you cannot think, okay, i spent x amount on this ad, will it give you a positive return? >> through of the new brands that have digital channels of selling but have been able to build the brand component, there used to be a very thick line between the two, but those things effectively mark it to someone -- brand, you film with them. >> you have the focus it issing. then they get bigger and i see them on television. so eventually they get out to the big brand advertising. what are things you can do if we can't spend big bucks on advertising? >> the latest, hottest thing is called the cdp, the customer data platform. all it is is lingo for owning your own data, having the ability to manage it. if you are a small to medium si size, imagine everyone who walked into your store, everyone who has visited your site or anyone who has shown interest is now on the cdp. people may have heard of the hub spot and kind of collect the data and just be able to hit those through facebook or twitter because you know this person has shown interest by using their signs. it's about making more sense of the data that you have, rather than a guessing game in this day and age with all the information we have. >> anything else to think about? >> there's always new technology on the way that businesses should leverage, right? if you are competing with a small to large brand, they may not have the agile to to hang on to be our experience. these things are now a lot more easy let's sake you want your sales folks presence. you can create a chat bot to have people ask questions about different makes and models. always a way to experiment with that. you can be the cutting edge but don't be too bleeding edge. look at your competitors. let them stumble a bit and see what's been effective for them and stick your nose in there and figure it out. >> you can work with companies like yours where you reward people so they want to keep coming back. >> you want marketing that people like. you can't afford to have something spray and pray that's annoying people. you just spent a lot of money to make someone hate you. you'd rather spend money to have people like you at the same time. >> so great to see you. as much as we may like to ignore it, stress is real. in fact, a recent study shows the majority of americans have experienced high levels of stress or anxiety at work. how do you cope? here are five tips you can try. one, keep track of your triggers. whether you keep a physical journalary use a smart device, note the times, situations, people or situations that cause you the most stress and develop a plan to combat anxiety before it starts. two, spend time with friends. if you're feeling anxious, then being alone may make that worse. carve out time to be with people you care about. three, make healthy choices. instead of yelling at someone, grabbing a beer or starting to eat a bunch of junk food, think about doing something healthier when feeling stressful. exercise. take a deep breath. phone a friend and eat healthy. four, listen to music. it's been scientifically proven that music reduces feelings of stress n anxiety for some people. and five, take breaks often. everyone needs some down time. schedule time to take a brief walk away from your desk in order to rest your mind and recharge. this week, we're launching the second season of oufr podcast, been there, built that. we kick it off with john foley, the founder of peloton, the company that's brought spin classes to your home. this company is valued at over a billion dollars but john tells me how until just about four months ago, he was scared they may not be able to go on with their plans. i was really, really taken with his story. he was inspiring. honest. and i learned so much to bring back to my company. i hope you all get a chance to listen to it. please give us feedback. the podcast is still pretty new. we'd love to hear what you think. "been there, built that wrts where you can find wherever you get your podcast. should you hire an expert to handle your social media or do it yourself? and the one thing every business owner mufst be good at. so that's the idea. what do you think? i don't like it. oh. nuh uh. yeah. ahhhhh. mm-mm. oh. yeah. ah. agh. d-d-d... no. hmmm. uh... huh. yeah. uh... huh. in business, there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you. so we're doing it. yes. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open. here's a question from susan. we are about to embark in a new direction in the medical industry. last time i built a practice, there was no internet and no social media. should we hire a social media expert? should we go it alone? which social media platform best serves our needs? >> i love this question. people assume because there are social media platforms that we should use all of them and hire resources and people. the reality is that's often the wrong move. my argument is all about roi, which is just putting content out there and hoping for the best with no strategy or plan, no social media savvy, just because you put somebody in the seat doesn't mean you'll get that return. instead of putting money into social media manager or social media ad buying or anything like that, figure out how to get your customers to use social media on your behalf. get them to refer your business. talk about the emotional experience, the grit service that you've provided to them so that they are the ones talking on social media, not your brand. we now have the top two tips to know to help you grow your business. let's introduce our panel. carly strife, bark, the business behind bark box. and less mcewen of predictable success an incubation consulting company. >> good to be back. >> les, it's been a little while. what's something we've learned while we've been away from each other? >> one thing i've been working with all my small business owners the last couple of years is the super par that they need to have which is mundane but incredibly powerful. it's the ability to effectively hire. it's awful. for most business owners the notion of having to hire somebody ranges between a distraction to root canal times 3,000. and so what happens is if you don't get really good at it, if you can't just punch in, hire, bring somebody in, you'll do anything except starting the process. here's what it really amounts to is you put up with mediocrity. >> how do you hire well? >> it's a little hard work but it's not complicated. i hate to say it. go on the internet and type, how do i hire effectively. there's a hundred little courses online. 20 brilliant books about it. and there are five or six skills. first of all, build up a bank of potential new employees. always be looking for people who you might hire in the future. file them away. learn how to interview effectively, ask really objective questions and stop depending on your golden gut which will get you into trouble and learn how to make the decision and pull the trigger rather than putting up with people who are mediocre. what will happen is your business will average down to the level of your most mediocre employee. >> it is true. it's the worst. i had to learn a lot. i'm sure you did. you were three people at your company at some point. now 300. >> yeah, hiring is hard. >> congratulations on all of your success. >> thank you. >> you've had a profitable quarter. more than $200 million in revenue expected in bashirk box bark co. what did you learn? >> really prioritize your challenges. so clear the roadblocks right in front of you. if you are worried about what you'll solve two years from now when you're at scale you'll never get off the starting blocks. i think reed hoffman says if you aren't embarrassed by the first product you put out, you aren't going fast enough. we went from idea to launch in three months and we've iterated every month on the product. >> you continue to do that because you've launched a number of businesses under bark. and killed a number of businesses under bark. so as fast as you need to be at starting them, you also need to be fast about killing them. >> that's exactly right. taking an objective view and really looking at, do the customers really love this or did we miss the mark and acting fast. >> thank you both so much. >> thanks for having us. this week's your biz selfie is a toung twister. it's from phannie phuggin who makes phannie's boozy jams and jellies from new hampshire. that's a fantastic picture. she sells them at stores and fairs and is part of the made in new hampshire community. pick up your smartphone, take a selfie of you and your company and send it to us at your business@msnbc.com or tweet it @msnbcyour business. if you use twitter, #yourbizselfie. thank you so much for joining us. we love hearing from you. if you have any questions, comments or want to say hi, send an e-mail to your business@msnbc.com. also head to our website. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. we also put up a whole lot of other content on there for you. and connect with us on all the digital and social media platforms as well. we look forward to seeing you next time. until then, i'm jj ramberg. and remember, we make your business, our business. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods. you're a go! you got the green light. that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open. ♪ welcome to "politics nation." this morning, where did i come from and where am i going? three days ago, i went to sacramento, california, for yet another funeral for a brother who died too early. and three days from now, i'm going to commemorate the loss of one of history's great spirits. 50 years to the tragic day. want to know how the two stories
New-londonConnecticutUnited-statesNew-hampshireWashingtonCaliforniaAmericanAmericansJohn-henry-brownZack-normanJohn-foleySavannah-guthrie something terrible had happened. >> where had the dog trainer gone? a trail of sinister clues. >> there was three wet blood spots in the hallway. >> there was all sorts of ammunition and guns. firearms on magnets behind tapestries. firearms in drawers. loaded guns all over this house. >> he has his arms around a big roll of plastic. and my brain goes there's a body. >> could anyone put it all together and sniff out the truth? >> what did that say to you? >> well, it says a lot to me. >> "the man who talks to dogs." hello and welcome to "dateline extra." i'm craig melvin. mark stover was a man at the top of his game, known as seattle's dog whisperer, he trained the canines of the city's rich and famous, often at the private island home he shared with his wife, linda. but the good life would not last. there was an affair, a nasty divorce, then suddenly it happened. he was the man who talked to dogs. but now the dogs were clearly trying to say something. but what? investigators would soon learn mark stover was missing. here's keith morrison. >> october 28th, 2009, routine call, middle of the day. dispatch sent a squad car to talk to the two ladies who'd phoned it in. what was it they said? two cars where they shouldn't be? someone moving something bulky from one to the other? back when it started the lovebirds should have known probably that it was too good to be true or too good to last anyway. after all, he seemed something of a self-made mutt. and she the purebred heiress type, the golden-haired daughter of a wealthy alpha male. whatever. by the time they promised their eternal love the clock was ticking. inaudible to them of course, like a whistle only a dog could hear. which come to think of it begs the question. how did he of all people miss it? his name was mark stover. and he discovered quite early that he had some special eerily mystical connection with dogs. when he talked to them, they listened. >> he was born with a gift. >> stover had become known as seattle's dog whisperer. >> i mean, it's not as simple as just giving them treats or clicker training or something like that. he spoke to the animals. >> with talents that amazed his loyal clients. starbucks chairman howard schultz. pearl jam's eddie vedder. major league outfielder ichiro suzuki brought him their dogs. >> one of his phrases was we train everybody in seattle from nordstrom to nirvana. but he was much more than a dog trainer to the stars. >> are you ready? okay. >> a long-time employee. >> come on, sampson. >> he trained everyone. it didn't matter to him who they were. it was about the person and the dog and that relationship between the person and the dog, not who they were. >> stormy, come. >> this woman liked him so much as a client she went to work for him. >> he would connect with you. he'd find something that he could talk to you about. and then he'd help you train your dog. >> and the seth for mark's dog-whispering business, incomparable. pickett island is what it's called. an 84-acre teardrop of primeval forest and meadow and beaches plunked a few feet offshore, a 90-minute commute north of seattle. >> the dogs could go swimming in the water there. there's plenty of trail walks. and it's just really, really outdoorsy and beautiful. >> outdoorsy and beautiful. are words which also happened to describe the human love of mark's life. linda opdi kechlt. the willowy bloend daughter of wally updike. the wealthy investor who'd once helped found chateau ste. michelle winery. linda seemed a perfect match for mark, according to the clients and friends who knew him best. >> she was mark two. you know, i mean, they were peas in a pod. they had similar hobbies. they'd hunt and fish, you know, go camp somewhere. that kind of stuff. >> he just thought she was the most wonderful thing since sliced bread basically. >> reporter: very protective of his linda was mark, as clients could clearly tell. >> he just thought she was beautiful, wonderful, smart. never, never, ever said anything bad about her. never. >> reporter: seemed to be in love? >> he was. he was totally -- totally crazy about her. >> reporter: it was linda's father, wally opdycke, who owned kiket island. mark and linda lived there on wally's island and grew their very successful business together. and then in 2002, they made their union permanent. an intimate wedding ceremony in the presidential suite of the las vegas four seasons. >> mark, welcome to the opdycke family. >> reporter: but maybe nothing is wrofr. forever. when linda told the employees it was just three years later when linda told the employees she was taking an extended vacation. alone. >> and that vacation kept extending and extending, and she just never came back. >> reporter: so separation. there was a brief affair. linda with one of mark's best friends. and then divorce. about as ugly as divorce can be. >> i was shocked. i really was. >> reporter: so was mark, apparently. quite thoroughly devastated, by all accounts. because now he had lost not just the love of his life, but he had to leave kiket island, too. losing her, losing all this. it was, we hardly need say, a black period just about here. some quite disturbing episodes, actually. we'll get to those later. suffice to say for now that eventually life went on. it was just divorce, after all. not death. not yet anyway. mark found a new property in nearby anacortes, washington. and if it wasn't kiket island, it was not bad. he moved into a new house, new kennels, new start. >> he had found the place that was going to be perfect for him. and it was going to be all his. and i think he was very much looking forward. he wasn't looking back. >> reporter: eventually, there was also her. her name is teresa. >> on our third date, though, he let me know that he wanted to marry me. >> reporter: third date? >> i was pretty shocked, yeah. >> reporter: what was it about you that he liked? >> he liked that i listened and that i was careful with the information that he gave me. not just information but with his heart. >> reporter: which had been really badly damaged, and he worried about that. didn't want it to happen again? he saw a safe harbor in you. >> i think so. >> reporter: safe harbor? well, maybe she was, as they made plans for a life together. but even then, in the fall of 2009, an ill wind was picking up. mark's employees couldn't help but notice it. he was off somehow. >> he was very different, and he told me that he was very paranoid. he'd actually been locking his doors. >> reporter: even though, as everyone knew, mark's highly trained guard dog, ding, would have protected him from anything. >> i asked him why he was locking his doors because he had ding. and he said, "i don't know. i'm just a little weirded out about something." >> reporter: he didn't say what? >> no, he didn't say what. and mark, it would take a lot to spook someone like mark. he was always very aware of his surroundings. >> reporter: mm-hmm. >> almost dog-like. and if there was something there, someone there, he knew it. >> reporter: and then, october 28th, mark stopped calling teresa. no explanation. >> so i hadn't heard from him all day and i thought -- towards the end of the day, it started seeming odd. but then the next day when i hadn't heard it from him by 9:00, i got one of the employees on the phone and i said, what is going on there? where's mark? and so they told me, you know, we haven't seen mark. we didn't see him all day yesterday. and i knew in my heart something terrible had happened. >> reporter: but what? well, there's the puzzle. does anybody know, even now? >> coming up -- strange goings-on at mark stover's place. the dogs are restless. >> the kennel dogs were very, very upset. it was a huge ruckus next door. >> and neighbors are about to find out why. >> before i even got to the door there was this immense smell of bleach. >> bleach? >> yeah. it took my breath away. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. inues.gh to quig cold turkey. so chantix can help you quit "slow turkey." along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. quit smoking "slow turkey." talk to your doctor about chantix. at a comfort inn with a glow taround them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com." who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com. mark stover was a bit like one of his well-trained dogs. he was a creature of habit. always on time. never missed an appointment. in bed early. up with the sun. and every wednesday mark hit the road for the hour-and-a-half drive south to seattle for sessions with his loyal clients, a schedule which employees amber -- >> we'd always joke that he was up -- he'd beat the rooster out of bed. >> reporter: and beth -- >> he was usually on the road by 7:00. >> reporter: and stephanie -- >> he had his breakfast and beat seattle traffic. >> reporter: -- knew very well. but on the morning of wednesday, october 28th, 2009, nothing was routine, nothing at all. first, stephanie, whose own house is right next door to the kennels, woke up to a chorus of barking dogs. it was, she thinks, about 6:00 a.m. >> and the kennel dogs were very, very upset. it was a huge ruckus next door. >> reporter: occasionally, that sort of thing would happen. >> very seldom. very seldom to that extent. >> reporter: then, 8:00 a.m., amber arrived at the kennels. and still the dogs were upset. >> they would not settle in that morning. >> reporter: odd. then someone told her mark was still around. he mustn't have left yet for seattle. >> and i thought that was strange because he was supposed to be gone over an hour prior. >> reporter: she walked to the house where mark made a habit of leaving the carport door unlocked so the employees could use the bathroom. >> and i noticed a little bit of blood in the driveway. i was afraid that his dog had opened her stitches because she'd had surgery. >> reporter: mark's dog, ding, wasn't just any pet. she was a highly skilled protection dog. a lot of blood? a little blood? >> a little blood. >> reporter: but noticeable. >> noticeable. and i proceeded towards the house and tried to go through the back door, and it was locked, which was very, very odd. >> reporter: then not long after, stephanie arrived and noticed perhaps a hundred yards from where she stood down in the field mark's station wagon was backed up to the carport area of his house. >> i was kind of surprised that it was parked where it was parked because it was never parked there. it was really hard to get it into that position to begin with. >> reporter: anyway, why hadn't he left for seattle? it was then she noticed, must be mark up at the house. >> someone who had mark's hat on, you know, which i thought was mark, was bringing something big into the back of the car. >> reporter: big, big, big? >> it looked like to me. so i was thinking he was carrying ding and putting her in the back of the car. >> reporter: ding, who remember, was recovering from surgery. >> and then he went to get into his car. he was wearing mark's hat, mark's coat. and closed the car door and then proceeded to like scream down the driveway, which mark would never have done. >> reporter: did you call out to him or wave? >> i waved and i went, "ugh, i hope that's mark." >> reporter: i hope that's mark? well, of course it must have been, stephanie thought, rushing a bleeding ding to the vet. about 20 minutes later stephanie walked up to the house to use the bathroom. this time the door was unlocked. but this was weird. >> before i even got to the door, there was this immense smell of bleach. >> reporter: bleach? >> yeah, like it took my breath away. >> reporter: and inside the house? >> there was three wet what looked like blood spots in the hallway that had, obviously, been just cleaned, and they were still drying. >> reporter: perhaps ding had bled on the carpet and mark had cleaned it up? but why would he take the time? >> he wouldn't stop and spend half an hour cleaning. his main thing would be getting ding to the vet, then getting to his appointments. >> reporter: but other than those wet spots, everything else appeared to be the way mark would have left it. >> i was looking for bloody towels. i was looking for bloody paper towels. the bathroom was immaculate. there was absolutely nothing in the washing machine. there was nothing in the tub. >> reporter: stephanie wasn't sure what was going on, but it all felt kind of creepy. >> my thoughts were, well, that was freaky. and i got out of there, and i didn't go back up to the house the rest of the day. >> reporter: you went on with the day? >> mm-hmm. >> reporter: but a strange day it was. and as the hours ticked by, there was no word from mark. no one could reach him by phone. >> it was very odd that we had not talked to him. it was very strange. >> reporter: the following morning, october 29th, still no sign of mark, no word from him at all. again, stephanie went up toward his house. >> and i looked up and there stood ding by the back door. and she was obviously hurt. she was growling. and so i started talking to her nicely thinking, oh, my god, what is she doing here and what's going on? and i backed down the driveway. >> reporter: at about the same time the phone rang in the kennel. it was mark's fiancee, teresa. >> when they told me ding was out, there was blood. ding is never out, ever. she is either in the house or she's with mark. she's not just out barking at people. >> reporter: no mark. injured dog. teresa, frantic now, called the skagit county sheriff's department. >> all of those circumstances were very suspicious. >> reporter: dan luvera was the detective assigned to the case. >> oh, i immediately thought foul play. this is huge. there's more to the story. >> more to the story? yes. there apparently was. starting with a secret history of a marriage and its ugly aftermath. coming up -- >> you know, divorce is never pleasant. but theirs just became very visible. and the fighting involved the business. >> he was afraid of losing it. >> very much so. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and experts agree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a little more... like plants. ♪ nick, nick, we need a decision. these days we all feel a little anxious sometimes. but if you could see inside my mind; you'll find i go to my happy place. see if we let tensions run the show up here, then our bodies won't perform at their best out here. wait, aren't we going to the sound check? priorities. so i'm partnering with cigna, to remind you that how you're doing emotionally affects you physically. go for your annual check-up and be open with your doctor about anything you're feeling. physically, and emotionally. body and mind cigna. together all the way. body and mind (driver) relax, it's just a bug. that's not a bug, that's not a bug! 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[son loudly clears throat] [mom and dad laugh] bounty, the quicker picker upper. now with new prints featuring characters from disney/pixar's toy story 4 in theaters june 21. run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. beacuse changing your attachments, should be as easy as... what about this? changing your plans. yeah. run with us. search "john deere 1 series" for more. welcome back. it had been a strange day on mark stover's property. mark's employee stephanie arrived and saw a man dressed in her boss's clothes loading up his car, then speeding away. soon after, she discovered blood in mark's house, which reeked of bleach. detective dan luvera immediately suspected foul play. and so did mark's fiance, teresa. mark, she said, had lived in fear. but who was he afraid of? here again is keith morrison. >> it was evening, october 29th, 2009, the day after mark stover disappeared. skagit county sheriff's detective dan luvera stood in the dark and looked at mark stover's big new house and just knew something very bad happened here. but what? >> there was no signs of a struggle. there was just a little bit of blood here and there. >> reporter: of course, mark's protection dog, ding, was clearly injured. that could explain those bits of blood. >> reporter: but in here, earlier that day, just inside the carport door, luvera's investigation team had been knocked back by the overwhelming odor of bleach. and here in the bathroom off the hall they found clorox bottles. looked like someone tried to wash away evidence. this had to be more than just an injured dog. mark stover's employees told about the strange events the previous morning. the barking dogs, the odd business of the locked carport door, the man wearing mark's clothes, roaring down the driveway in mark's white chevy station wagon. mark never drove that fast. it didn't look good. the policemen poked around, sniffed, measured. and still no mark stover. the evidence, even without a body, seemed clear. this was homicide. so by now, a couple of days after mark's disappearance, his employees were shifting from puzzled to shocked to grief-stricken. >> mark took a role in my life like a surrogate father. and i truly loved mark as a parent and a friend and a family member. >> reporter: sometimes the clues in a mystery such as this can be very personal, more about relationships than fingerprints or dna, as detective luvera knew full well. and in the days after mark stover's disappearance, the detective repeatedly encountered a disturbing story. these former lovers were afraid of each other. what happened to that marriage, the one on the heavenly island? in fact, there was a record, the detective discovered. and it was more hell than heaven. >> well, mark had issues with linda, and linda had issues with mark. >> reporter: to put it mildly. here's the story mark's fiancee teresa told the detective. the story, she said, mark told her. that linda seemed to be doing her level best to destroy mark's dog training business. >> she had been calling key clients and saying really horrible things about him to damage the business. she called and tried to shut the website down and tried to shut his phones down. >> reporter: which is why -- again, this is the story teresa said mark told her -- why he snooped in her garbage one march morning in 2008. this was a three-hour drive from his own house. he went there, said teresa, to look for a paper trail to prove linda wanted to destroy his business. >> you know, divorce is never pleasant. >> reporter: right. >> but theirs just became very visible and the fighting involved the business and -- >> reporter: he was afraid of losing it? >> very much so. >> reporter: after the garbage incident, linda came up with a whole slew of accusations, that mark had been harassing her ever since she left him. a domestic violence protection order was issued against mark in april 2008. mark was later charged with criminal stalking. he swore up and down that many of the allegations were not true, but he was caught going through her garbage. he eventually took what's known as an alford plea, which means he agreed to plead guilty conceding a judge or jury would probably convict him. even though he claimed he didn't do it. much of it, anyway. but here was the deal, and this was important. as part of that arrangement, mark was ordered to give up his guns. for most people that might be easy. but for mark? he had dozens of guns. he loved his guns. >> it was a passion for him. he loved his hunting. >> reporter: no guns. no contact with linda. and mark agreed. here's what teresa says mark told her. >> this will make it all stop. >> reporter: in other words, he was telling you, i'm going to let her win? >> he said that was important, that she needed to win. >> reporter: was he afraid of her? >> oh, yes. >> reporter: still, after that things seemed to settle down. mark's business thrived in its new location here in anacortes. he continued to service his clients in seattle. and of course, by then, he had found teresa. but then, in the summer of 2009, two strange 911 calls came into the skagit county sheriff's office. an anonymous male caller claimed mark stover was transporting drugs in his car. >> there's a crime that is going to take place in the morning. >> reporter: police pulled mark over, found a small amount of marijuana and cocaine underneath the car. but he was not arrested. mark told police he believed he was being set up. those were not his drugs. mark wasn't charged with any crime. but he was terrified? >> he was terrified that someone was trying to set him up to be charged with transportation of these drugs and facing jail time or prison time or both. >> reporter: not long after that drug incident, mark opened up to a longtime client. told her, she said, that he was convinced his days were numbered. >> he totally shocked me by saying how every time he leaves his house in the morning he checks under his car to make sure there's nothing like a bomb. he was a shaken man. >> reporter: and then about a month later, she said, he called her on the phone, frantic. >> it was just breaking him. just totally breaking him. because he knew that he wasn't going to survive. he knew it. >> reporter: wow. >> he knew his life was over. he just knew it. and that there was nothing he could do about it. >> reporter: as detective luvera talked to friends and dog owning clients, he heard all about mark's fears those last few months. >> he kept on pointing the finger at linda. but again, there was no evidence to prove that or suggest that, i guess. but he was concerned, and he had this feeling that something terrible was going to happen. >> reporter: what did he tell you about linda? >> he told me that "she will not rest until i'm dead." >> reporter: and it wasn't just linda mark fretted about. he told friends he was afraid of her father, too. why was he afraid of them? >> what i can say is often he would comment that they always win and they always get the last word. >> reporter: and so according to his friends, mark stover spent the late summer and early fall of 2009 in a state of mortal fear. even escaped, secretly, to montana, says teresa. >> he would only use cash. he would call me from pay phones. he was very worried, and he even called me and said, you know, if things happen, this is what i want you to do. and i said, "mark, how will i know if something happens to you?" and he said, "you'll know." >> reporter: and now, of course, she did. now everyone knew something happened to the dog trainer to the stars. and they might never have known more than just that, a mystery unsolved, except for the strange events in a remote parking lot and two sharp-eyed women who now had a story to tell. >> coming up -- >> he's bent over and he has his arms around a big roll of clear plastic and my brain goes, there's a body. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. is made. 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(music throughout) for people 50 and older colat average risk.ing honey have you seen my glasses? i've always had a knack for finding things... colon cancer, to be exact. and i find it noninvasively... no need for time off or special prep. it all starts here... you collect your sample, and cologuard uses the dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers. you can always count on me to know where to look. oh, i found them! i can do this test now! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers. today, life-changing technology from abbott is helping hunt them down at their source. because the faster we can identify new viruses, the faster we can get to stopping them. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. i'm dara brown. the hour's top stories. a last-minute change to secretary of state mike pompeo's overseas schedule. he'll skip a stop in moscow and instead head to brussels for a meeting with european leaders. but pompeo is still expected to meet with vladimir putin in sochi, russia later in the week. and the "washington post" reports president trump and his allies are blocking more than 20 democratic probes. the investigations span trump's actions as president, his personal finances, and his administration's policies. now back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline extra." i'm craig melvin. mark stover had vanished, and police suspected foul play. according to friends, the celebrity dog trainer had been living in fear for months, convinced that his ex-wife, linda, wanted him dead. investigators had no evidence tying linda to his disappearance. in fact, they had few leads at all. until a mother and daughter approached investigators with a very odd tale. here's keith morrison with more of our story. >> reporter: murder investigations are the top of the craft in the police business. mostly because they can be tortuous. it can take years to pry loose a single useful lead. but on the day mark stover disappeared, two women saw something that didn't belong and called it in. >> they were a huge part of starting this whole process. >> reporter: just a few hours after the employees at mark's house watched his car drive away -- >> i pulled forward and there's two vehicles behind the chain. >> reporter: tami gilden and her mother, sharon larson, called the sheriff's department to complain that someone was trespassing in the locked parking lot of a grange hall just a half mile from mark's house. in fact, they said, they saw two cars. one i.d.'d by the license number was mark's white chevy station wagon. parked back to back, said the ladies, with a black suzuki suv. and they saw someone moving something between the cars. >> and he's bent over, and he has his arms around a big roll of, you know, clear plastic. and my brain goes, there's a body. oh tami, no, there's not a body. you've been reading too many good murder mysteries. >> reporter: the man transferring the plastic and whatever was in it drove off in his suv, the ladies reported, leaving mark stover's station wagon behind. the sheriff's dispatcher sent a deputy to have a look. and sure enough, the deputy found mark's car inside the apparently locked parking lot, behind this chain. except the lot wasn't exactly locked anymore. >> when the deputy looked closer to the chain link, he discovered that one of the links had been cut and that link was placed and attached to the other links making it appear that it was intact. >> reporter: and then, this was pure chance, really. the deputy spotted the suv just down the road and pulled it over, peered around the driver into the back of the suv. >> there was a lot of stuff in the back of his car. it appeared to be camping type stuff or tarps and plastic type stuff. >> reporter: the man identified himself as michiel oakes. lived a good five hours drive away. worked in internet sales, consulting, a bit of writing. denied ever being behind the grange. his word against the ladies'. the deputy let him go. >> the deputy just gave him a warning, said don't go back there, you know, go on your way. >> reporter: it was just a minor trespassing incident, after all. but now, a day later, it didn't seem so minor. time to find both cars. the dog trainer's car was no longer at the grange hall. but an alert detective noticed it here in the parking lot of the northern lights casino, three miles from the place where the ladies had seen it. it looked like blood on the back of the car. and when investigators ordered up the casino's surveillance video, they saw this. 6:21 p.m. october 28th. perhaps seven hours after the ladies saw the car at the grange. here was someone mark's car onto the casino parking lot. whoever it was abandoned it. and now dan luvera's investigation was moving very quickly. >> immediately started trying to find out who this michiel oakes guy was that was seen behind the grange by the two witnesses. >> reporter: once police had michiel oakes' i.d., they discovered he was spending time with linda opdycke, mark's ex-wife. so now two officers from the okanagan county sheriff's department paid a visit at linda's house, here in winthrop, washington. and sure enough, there was michiel oakes' suv in her driveway. once in the house, the officers asked to speak to oakes. he agreed. but then he said he needed to find his pills. >> he became agitated or frustrated. kept on asking for his medication. and the chief, not knowing if michiel was having some sort of a medical issue, allowed him to look around for his medication. >> reporter: and while supposedly hunting for pills -- >> michiel then secretly snuck out to the basement area of the house and went to his vehicle. it just so happened that the sergeant was standing on the deck above the driveway and observed michiel oakes walking outside to the driveway. >> reporter: oakes, apparently not aware he was being watched, took a white bag out of his car, said the officer -- and tossed it over a 20-foot embankment outside linda's house. >> he immediately questions michiel about what he threw over the embankment. michiel said it was garbage. >> reporter: garbage? >> garbage. >> reporter: but they went to retrieve that bag of garbage. and what was actually in it? >> it was a gun. >> reporter: inside michiel oakes' "garbage" was a .22-caliber browning pistol. also in the bag, a bloody swatch of carpet and an overwhelming odor of bleach. and then here's what they found inside linda's house. bizarre. >> oh, there was all sorts of ammunition and guns, firearms on magnets behind tapestries, firearms in drawers. loaded guns all over this house. >> reporter: including semiautomatic weapons and big-time stuff? >> yes. big-time stuff, yeah. >> reporter: why? was an explanation provided for this? >> no. >> reporter: before police left linda opdycke's house here in winthrop, they arrested michiel oakes on suspicion of murder. and back in western washington, a local buzz began to grow. if michiel oakes did kill mark stover, was someone else involved somehow? buzz is discouraged, however, in police work in favor of actual evidence, which in this case arrived in a phone call to police from her. michiel oakes, it turned out, had an ex-wife who volunteered a remarkable story about disturbing visits and puzzling messages from mr. oakes. what did that say to you? >> it says a lot to me. >> coming up -- as one person opens up, another goes suspiciously silent. both get detectives' attention. >> what did you think? >> oh, i thought, wow, huge red flags. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. nd technology that have made the rx the leading luxury suv of all time. lease the 2019 rx 350 for $399 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal 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oakes sat in the back of a police car under arrest on suspicion of the murder of dog whisperer mark stover, he was given an unusual opportunity. he was allowed to make several calls from his cell phone. he decided, for reasons of his own, to place one of them to a woman named jennifer thompson, his ex-wife. why? well, we can only speculate that the result of that call may have been the very opposite of what he intended. here's what happened. not long after oakes phoned her from the police car, jennifer placed a call of her own to the county jail. she asked to speak to an investigator. and not long after that call, this was the story she told in an audio-taped interview. on october 24th, 2009, four days before mark stover disappeared, michiel oakes stopped in to see her at her place in western washington, not too many miles from the stover kennels and talked to her about a job he was supposed to do. >> he didn't give me a lot of specifics. he just said he was here on a job, side job. that there was risks involved. possible injury to himself. that it was fairly dangerous. >> reporter: at which point he left for a few hours, then contacted her again. >> he texted me and said job failed. i'm okay. no pay, though. >> reporter: no pay? >> no pay. >> reporter: what did that say to you? >> it says a lot to me. it says that -- >> reporter: somebody's paying him. >> somebody is paying him, somebody has hired him. >> reporter: does that sound like michiel oakes was a hired killer? well, wait. there's more. jennifer told the police that after michiel left on the 24th he told her in an e-mail he'd be back in the area later that week. and sure enough, on october 28th, not long after that deputy pulled him over to investigate the trespassing incident, oakes called again, said jennifer. came to meet her. he asked her to drive to a spot near the water, she said, where they could talk. >> yeah, because he was just sitting there in a frenzy just stressed out. he just seemed very agitated. and he mentioned that he may be in trouble. >> reporter: and then another reference to a job, a job gone bad. >> he said, well, i made an error doing the job. i made an error. and when i realized the error, i tried to get out of there. but when i was getting out of there, two old biddies saw me. i said, well, why is this a problem? and he said, well, now when the [ bleep ] hits the fan in the next 24 to 48 hours, they have my name. there's a 50-50 shot of getting questioned. if he gets questioned he's guaranteed a trial and if he gets a trial there is no one that's going to stick up for him and he's pretty much going to prison. and he said looking at felony 10 to 15 years. >> reporter: so big trouble, he told jennifer. there was evasive action to take, work to be done. >> he was really concerned about getting pulled over with the things in his vehicle. um, he wanted to get them home and get them sterilized. and he said if anyone sees this now i'm going in right away. >> going in, meaning he would be arrested right away he felt? >> right. >> reporter: and if all that wasn't incriminating enough, here was the capper. jennifer told police the story of how their marriage fell apart. it happened in the spring of 2008, said jennifer. then husband michiel told her about a phone call from someone named john. >> he told me that there was a potential job coming up that he was interested in taking. about a woman and an ex-spouse that was harassing her. the father of the woman was initiating the job. >> reporter: a father with a daughter named linda, and it seems there was a plan in store for linda's ex-husband. >> that they would basically use linda as sort of bait to lure the, um, ex-spouse toward her, and then they would -- they were to show signs of hurting her, killing her, then they would take him out. >> okay. and by taking him out, you meant -- or you understood that to be they would kill him? >> right. >> reporter: linda and her father? could that be wally and linda opdycke, the police wondered? mark stover's ex-father-in-law and ex-wife plotting to kill him? it was a wild story jennifer told and, of course, horrifying given what seemed to have happened. jennifer said she told michiel back then, don't do it. walk away. but he wouldn't listen. and that's when things started going bad. >> well, jennifer and michiel's marriage started to unravel because michiel had considered taking this job. and jennifer knew that this was a kill for hire, and she didn't want to have any part of it. >> reporter: and thus didn't want to be married to a guy who was going to do such a thing? >> exactly, yeah. >> reporter: but remember, awful though it sounded, this was an ex-wife's story. and all due respect to jennifer, maybe she just had a vendetta against him because after all, he was the ex. didn't she want him back desperately? he wouldn't come back? >> yeah, she still had feelings for him. >> reporter: so maybe she would just want to get him? >> no. jennifer was very well spoken, very articulate, very believable. she was the type of woman that you would want to take home to your mom and dad. she was just very sweet. >> reporter: of course, for dan luvera and his team of investigators this was all pure gold. or so you'd assume, wouldn't you? it turns out there was a very different side to this story. coming up -- >> i wanted to provide a little twist, a surprise. >> yeah. >> and boy would he. when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. ntinues. what if i wielded the power of the infinity gauntlet...? i could bend reality to my will, with a snap of my fingers! i just saved money with geico. i saved hundreds of dollars! nice! that is a lot of money. the power is exhilarating!! hahahahahaha! hah. ha. just got something in my throat. yea... marvel studio's "avengers endgame." in theaters april 26. i've always been amazed and still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart 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investigators arrested michael oakes on suspicion of murdering dog trainer mark stover, and the evidence against him seemed compelling. oakes' ex-wife jennifer thompson told police he had talked about taking someone out. he indicated others were involved too, but oakes would soon get help from a powerful defense attorney who was about to present a very different version of events. once again here is keith morrison. >> jennifer thompson had just told police a story that if she was telling the truth, would seem to implicate her ex-husband in the murder of mark stover. detective dan luvera thought her story sounded believable, but in his line of work, that's rarely enough. assumptions are not the same thing as evidence, and -- >> we didn't have any evidence to support that linda or wally were directly involved other than what jennifer thompson had told us. >> reporter: why not just call them in and ask them? >> they wouldn't talk to us. we got a letter and a phone call from wally's attorney immediately after michiel oakes' arrest, stating that wally opdycke would not talk to us. >> reporter: well, had you asked him by then? >> no, we have not even requested to interview wally. we hadn't even called him. >> reporter: what did you think? >> well, i thought, wow, huge red flags. i thought, wow, this guy, we haven't even asked to talk to him and he already has an attorney. and the attorney is already contacting us telling us not to contact wally opdycke? it was crazy. same with linda. she hired an attorney right away. >> reporter: linda invoked her fifth amendment right to remain silent. a judge ultimately ordered her to sit for a deposition. still didn't say anything. >> pretty much every question we asked her she took the fifth on. >> reporter: so there was one defendant in the murder of mark stover. michiel oakes. but he certainly didn't look the part of a hired killer. all 5'6" of him. soft spoken, understated, articulate. father of four, grandfather of one. >> yeah, he is not your hollywood casting for hitman. >> reporter: but cast as defense attorney? seattle's colorful and irrepressible john henry browne. >> he's a really kind, compassionate, loving guy. >> reporter: but early legal skirmishing seemed to sometimesed a confusion. was it murder, oakes a hired gun? or was it something all together? and besides that, how intimate was his relationship with mark stover's ex-wife linda, and who was paying for his famous defense attorney? the opdyckes are behind this. and you know, they hired me. i'll tell you, if they hired me, i wouldn't be wearing my timex, okay? you know, that's ridiculous. >> reporter: john henry browne settled into a local hotel and set to work deconstructing the prevailing public view of defendant michiel oakes. here in court, browne sucked up the attention. >> and i would suggest counsel come to trial, and she'll find out. >> reporter: naturally flamboyant. >> i don't think i have a dog in this fight. >> reporter: while the client seemed to disappear into the woodwork behind him. a client who, said john henry browne, was not at all the villain the prosecution seemed determined to portray. >> what we have is a man who has on his own raised, very successfully, four children. >> reporter: it became, shall we say, a theme. michiel oakes, single father of four, grandfather of one. well-spoken, mild-mannered. but certainly not any ordinary salesman or consultant. oakes, browne admitted, is a recognized expert in close quarters combat, knows firearms so well he's written numerous articles for gun magazines, has even trained police s.w.a.t. teams. but has no criminal record and, insisted browne, he isn't a murderer. still, he must have done something to mark stover. didn't he? well, here's where it all began to get tricky. if stover was really dead, said john henry browne, and if the prosecution could prove oakes killed him, then, and only then oakes might provide an explanation. through the legal fog a little hint came popping out. the prosecution had already indicated it would introduce into evidence a bulletproof vest found in michiel oakes' suv. now attorney browne seemed to be suggesting that vest would be important to any claim the defense might decide to make. >> just to make things clear, your honor, it's not just a vest. it's a bullet that was found in the vest. >> coming up, the defendant tells his story to "dateline" even before he does in court. when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. woman: this is your wake-up call. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. vo: humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. woman: help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. welcome back to "dateline extra." i'm craig melvin. michiel oakes was a loving father, a loving grandfather, and police believed a killer. the details he had shared with his ex-wife jennifer thompson had been key to the investigation into mark stover's murder, but then a surprise in court. would jennifer be allowed to tell her story to the jury? returning now to keith morrison. september, 2010. as the proceedings started, no one really knew where things were headed here. even john henry brown quite deliberately broke one of his own cardinal rules. he decided not to make an opening statement to the ry i c ten rules of trial. and i think it's rule number three that is never, never, never, ever waive an opening statement. that's a rule. >> good morning, everybody. >> reporter: but this time? this time the defense would lie in wait while the prosecution made its case that michiel oakes was a first-degree murderer. here's how their story began. with this video. a security camera about 5:30 a.m., the mt. vernon walmart. there's michiel oakes. it's the morning mark stover disappeared. receipts found in oakes' car showed he'd purchased ankle weights, anchor line, shin guards, camouflage clothes. also found in his car, that bulletproof vest. prosecutors argued that oakes arrived at stover's house a little later that morning. mark's employees were called to testify about what they saw and heard. >> i was awoken by the dogs in the barn next door. >> reporter: they saw the spots of blood, smelled the bleach, saw mark's car racing down the driveway. >> both back ends were open to each other. >> reporter: and then the trespassing incident at the grange hall near mark stover's house as called in by those two concerned women, now witnesses. >> there was a guy standing between the vehicles, and he had a big huge wad of plastic. a big roll of plastic. >> reporter: that someone, michiel oakes, as identified by his license plate. and that wad of plastic? the suggestion was, of course, that it shrouded mark stover's body. and remember, there was a chain behind the grange that appeared to have been cut that morning. and here were receipts, found in oakes' car, showing he bought and later returned a bolt cutter from a lowe's hardware store the day mark stover disappeared. a state dna expert testified mark stover's blood was found in the back of his car and in the back of defendant oakes' suv. >> are you aware that mr. oakes purchased a .22 caliber pistol at your store? >> i am. >> reporter: this former hardware store manager testified he sold michiel oakes that .22 caliber browning and that he'd been interested in it for a very specific reason. >> he told me, well, i have a barrel that i can interchange on that that has a threaded end that i can put a suppressor on. >> reporter: silencer, that is. then an expert matched bullet casings found outside stover's house to michael oakes' gun. >> i was able to identify all three fired cartridges as have been been fired from the browning pistol. >> reporter: proof that michiel oakes' gun was fired at mark stover's house where dna showed more of mark's blood was found. blood but no body. to try to answer the question of what michiel oakes might have done with mark's body, prosecutors presented this surveillance video. shortly after 12:00 noon, october 28th, the day stover disappeared, an suv -- looked like michiel oakes' suzuki -- slowly cruising by the waterfront casino three miles from the grange. >> right here is the dark colored suv. >> reporter: detective dan luvera testified that the vehicle spent about 16 minutes back there by the casino out of range of the camera on a road that leads to this channel. open water. and this dilapidated dock. later, detectives and divers searched, but -- didn't find a darn thing. >> didn't find a darn thing. >> reporter: then, of course, one other key witness for the prosecution. jennifer thompson, michiel oakes' ex-wife. remember, she claimed that michiel oakes told her he'd been offered a job to take out an ex-husband, that he'd been asked by the father of someone named linda. that jennifer was convinced that meant this was a killing for hire. but because that alleged conversation took place when jennifer and michiel oakes were married, that made it privileged. couldn't be used in court. the prosecution would have to make do with just part of jennifer's story. the judge would not allow her face to be filmed in court as she told the jury about her visit from michiel just days before mark stover disappeared when he talked about a job he was supposed to do. and then there was her meeting with him on the 28th of october not long after that trespassing incident when the police officer pulled him over. jennifer said he looked a little frumpy, and what was that on his jeans? >> there was a rusty reddish stain on his right knee. to me it looked like blood. i just said, "it looks like you have a dirty knee there." and he took his finger and he touched it. and he said, "yeah." >> reporter: but most startling in jennifer's testimony, all those things she claims he said, that he was doing a job and something went wrong. that he wanted to sterilize his car and his fears about what would happen if the cops questioned him. >> something that was not planned happened. he said if there is a trial, it's not going to be good. >> reporter: all very methodically, the prosecution appeared to have cornered michiel oakes. seemed to have met a certain burden of proof. and no one had a clue what oakes or his attorney would do or say to respond. oh, but john henry browne knew exactly how he'd respond. and it was a bombshell he had in store. >> we wanted to be the people who brought light into this case. >> reporter: you wanted to provide a little twist, a turn, a surprise? >> yeah. >> good morning. be seated, ladies and gentlemen. the defense team is reserving their opening statement. >> experienced observers here in the mt. vernon courthouse were puzzled. what was the defense attorney john henry browne up to? >> coming up -- >> the reality is you can't a terrorist. and mark stover was a domestic violence terrorist. >> i just knew that wasn't true about him. there was nothing in him that was malicious or vindictive. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. ♪ [spanish recording] so again, using "para", you're talking about something that is for someone. ♪ pretty good. could listening to audible inspire you to start something new? download audible and listen for a change. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪ no matter what your name is. for people 50 and older colat average risk.ing honey have you seen my glasses? i've always had a knack for finding things... colon cancer, to be exact. and i find it noninvasively... no need for time off or special prep. it all starts here... you collect your sample, and cologuard uses the dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers. you can always count on me to know where to look. oh, i found them! i can do this test now! ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers. - there but what are wes to get our messactually saying?ys. any message is a story. and all stories tell the tale of the times we live in right now. how do you want to be remembered? how do you want your story to play out? our own experiences make the best stories, and your words carry a lot of weight. think about what you want to say before you say it. or send it. welcome back. prosecutors in the michiel oakes murder trial had presented a powerful case. experts testified mark stover's blood was found in michiel's cot, and spent shell casing in mark's house came from michiel's gun. then michiel's ex-wife took the stand to share his incriminating statements about a job gone wrong. but now it was the defense's turn, and michiel's attorney was about to turn the prosecution's theory of the crime upside down. once again, keith morris. >> reporter: as the prosecution put on its case against michiel oakes rolled out chapter and verse pointing to the evidence of the murderer of mark stover, browne said practically nothing. why? strategy, said john henry browne. >> we put them to the task of putting on a lot of evidence and it was just kind of boring them, so we wanted to be the people that brought light into this case. >> reporter: so what was the light in this case? the secret twist? >> the evidence shows and demonstrates beyond any shadow of doubt for any reasonable person that mark stover was a domestic violence terrorist. >> reporter: terrorist? the villain was not his client, michiel oakes, said browne, but the victim, mark stover. remember, mark's friends and clients had nothing but good things to say about him, but now it was clear oakes' attorneys would use whatever evidence they could to paint the dog trainer as a threatening, gun-loving predator, someone michiel oakes would have feared. and here, the real work of the defense began. they focused to a large degree on stover's behavior with his ex-wife. linda opdycke, said browne, was stalked and harassed for years after leaving stover. it wasn't just the incident in which her ex-husband was caught rummaging through her garbage. he made a habit of showing up at her house uninvited, said browne, exposing himself, appearing in her bathroom as she got out of the shower, pointing a rifle at her through a window, leaving handwritten notes, threatening voice mails. >> the fact if he goes into linda's house with a .45 and puts it on the pillow and threatens to kill himself or her. the fact that he breaks into her house, the fact that he steals her journal, the fact a that he steals her garbage. the fact -- you know, all those things are fact. >> reporter: and so when it came time for the defense to finally make its case, browne's co-counsel, corbin volluz, did his best to drive the allegations home. >> when linda said she wanted to be separated from mark in 2005, he did not take it well. >> reporter: what followed, claimed the defense, were many examples of bad behavior. mark following her into a beauty salon. >> mark stover walks in unannounced. he gives a card to linda saying he will never let her go. >> reporter: mark, showing up at her place, uninvited. >> he grabs her by her shoulders and says he can't let her go. >> reporter: apparently spying on her when linda slept with mark's ex-best friend. >> the next morning, linda gets a phone call from mark stover. and then to linda's horror, mark stover begins to describe in graphic detail the intimacy that linda had been sharing the night before. >> reporter: and sitting in his car outside her home. >> she's calling him on the cell phone. she's following her. she's pleading with him to stop it and quit following her. >> reporter: that time, said the defense, linda called the cops. and he responded, according to her, by sending her a form canceling her health insurance which was still in his name. controlling, threatening, suggested oakes' lawyer. >> mark stover has scrawled across the front, "next time, do not call the cops on the guy that controls your health care." >> reporter: and then the defense attorney showed the jury this video from linda's surveillance cameras. in the middle of the night, here's a man the defense claimed is mark stover creeping around linda's house. >> what you see is mark stover walking up the driveway and under her house out of view of the camera. >> reporter: but that wasn't all. there was a series of odd and threatening voicemail messages, said the defense, many with a similar theme. mark seemed strangely obsessed with getting his wedding photos back from linda. just one of many transcripts of these calls the attorney read from. >> "send those dang pictures of the wedding. i know you're into the wedding. you don't give a damn about me. i don't want anything showing that we were married or anything else." >> reporter: the defense told the jury that linda's attorney told mark to stop contacting her directly, only go through his office. >> but, of course, he keeps contacting her and contacting her and contacting her because mark stover is dogged in the pursuit of his prey. >> reporter: prey? an interesting word very deliberately picked by the defense. because now they would argue that michiel oakes also became prey for mark stover. would claim that a terrified oakes believed something unspeakable would happen if he didn't try to appease linda's ex. i mean, the fact of the matter is you talk about domestic violence terrorist. the person who's dead here is mark stover. >> yeah. >> reporter: he is the one against whom the violence was committed. >> here is something that we have learned in this country, haven't we? you don't negotiate with terrorists. michiel didn't know that, michiel felt he could negotiate with a terrorist. linda felt she could negotiate with a terrorist. the reality is you can't negotiate with a terrorist, and mark stover was a domestic violence terrorist. >> reporter: mark's friends and clients had by now gathered around the courthouse here in mt. vernon determined to tell the world, anybody who would listen, that those claims were both unfair and untrue. >> most of all these reports that we hear are filed by her alone and by her eyewitness alone and absolutely no one else's. so you got to weigh that in at some point, too, that it doesn't have that much meat to it. >> i just knew that wasn't true about him. there was nothing in him that was malicious or vindictive. >> reporter: and perhaps to answer them? a surprising and extremely unusual strategy. in midtrial, john henry browne brought his client to see us, here on the outskirts of little mt. vernon. michiel oakes, before even talking to the jury, would make his case here. preparation for his own testimony? yes, probably. but also a wild bombshell of a story, an audacious claim. >> michiel oakes shares his version of events, including months of harassment building to a deadly showdown. but who was the hunter and who was the prey? coming up -- >> i went and i got shot, and i won. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. lexus ux and ux f sport. also available in hybrid all-wheel-drive. lease the 2019 ux 200 for $329 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. with moderate to severe ulceratiyour plans... crohn's, can change in minutes. your head wants to do one thing... but your gut says not today. if your current treatment isn't working... ask your doctor about entyvio®. entyvio® acts specifically in the gi tract, to prevent an excess of white blood cells from entering and causing damaging inflammation. entyvio® has helped many patients achieve long-term relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio® may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. tell your doctor if you have an infection experience frequent infections or have flu-like symptoms, or 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(burke) at fso we know how ton almost evercover almost anything. even rooftop parking. strange forces at work? only if you're referring to gravity-and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ state of the art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2019 nx 300 for $359 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. i'm dara brown with the hour's top stories. secretary of state mike pompeo departed for his first trip to russia as president trump's chief diplomat. president trump will skip a trip to moscowly will still meet with vladimir putin later in the week. actress felicity huffman is expected to plead guilty in federal court on monday for her involvement in the college admissions scandal. huffman is facing up to ten months behind bars followed by a year of probation as well as a $20,000 fine. now back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline extra." the defense in the michiel oakes murder trial had come out swinging. they insisted victim mark stover was the real villain in this case, an angry stalker who had terrorized his ex-wife and her new boyfriend michiel. the single dad would soon take the stand to reveal his version of the deadly encounter. but first, he decided to lay it out for us. here again is keith morrison. >> reporter: it was early evening. thermometer dropping in the gathering dark when michiel oakes came to talk to us partway through his trial for murder he came with a message about himself. which he delivered more or less in the following manner. over and over again. >> i'm a single dad. i cook three meals a day for my kids, i bring them to dance, i bring them to school. this has been my life. >> reporter: and in case we didn't get it. >> the lens i look at the world through is really that of a single dad. i'm a nurturer, i'm a father, a very peaceable person. i just happen to be a single dad. who is kind of in a very unfortunate lime right right now. >> reporter: well, yes, charged with first degree murder. so how did he get to this place? the story began, he said, when someone asked him to contact a frightened woman he did not know. that's how he made that first call to linda opdycke. >> she said i'm dealing with a very frightening stalking situation. >> reporter: michiel remember was a security expert. he trained s.w.a.t. teams in close quarters combat. he offered to help. >> she put in my hands this very thick file including video recordings, audio recordings, police reports, page after page, threatening voice mails. >> reporter: linda told him she'd been stalked for years by her ex-husband. >> get out of the shower and there he is standing in the bathroom with a gun in his hand. and she thought her house was locked. how many of those occasions does it take before you go any room i'm in, any moment, i have to be ready? and that's the scenario that linda lived in for at least two years. >> reporter: and then, as he worked out a protection plan for linda, he said, something unexpected happened. >> it really resonated. we really worked well together and connected on a very heart and soul level all right. >> reporter: it was a romance? >> yeah, it definitely became a romance. >> reporter: and so michiel, the single dad and security expert and linda, the beautiful golden-haired daughter of privilege embarked on a life together along with his kids. and then one day in late may, 2009, said oakes, he was getting into his car in a costco parking lot in a town called kenniwick washington when he was confronted by linda's ex, mark stover. >> i was approached by mark stover out of the clear blue. i had never met the gentleman prior to that, never spoken to him before. he did not introduce himself and he -- >> reporter: take your time. >> i got up every morning, you know, and took my kids to school. >> reporter: right. >> i had my son in grade school. and my daughter in middle school. >> reporter: yeah. >> and -- >> reporter: it was a long pause while oakes composed himself. >> sorry. he said he needed me to do something, and he told me what my daughters were wearing that morning to school. and he had to have been there when my kids got out of the car to their two schools. their two schools. and he said that there was no other choice for me but to do what he wanted or something bad was going to happen to my kids. and he said that -- he was in a very tight relationship with the cops. and if i -- if as soon as i called, he would know. and he said i was going to do what he wanted. >> reporter: which was what? >> he told me i had to get wedding photos, believe it or not, wedding albums, photos, and i had to get them to him or else. >> reporter: what did you say? >> you know, i was -- my head was spinning. i was so much in shock, i didn't say much. i listened to him. i think i nod several times. i don't remember saying anything. >> reporter: but michiel oakes, the security weapons and hand-to-hand combat expert, the trainer of police s.w.a.t. teams did feel something, he said. >> for six months of 2009 i lived in a perpetual state of fear. >> reporter: too afraid even to call the police. >> i didn't have video proof. i didn't have audio proof. i didn't even have a witness. >> reporter: and so, according to michiel, he tried to appease mark stover and looked for the wedding photos. >> i just found the romantic relationship that i had been seeking my whole life, just putting it together, and in the middle of this i'm supposed to say, hey, i would really love to look at your wedding pictures of your ex who is stalking you and driving you crazy. where would you have those? i would like to look at those. >> reporter: wait a minute. you didn't tell her that he confronted you and asked you for those wedding photos? >> oh, no. oh, no, no, no, no. >> reporter: instead, he says, he armed his own daughter, trained her, if anyone comes into the house, keep firing until they stop. >> my very first responsibility over and above anything or anyone, anyone, is the safety of my children. >> reporter: and then he claimed he agreed to mark stover's demand to meet supposedly to talk about wedding pictures at mark's house october 28th. went there armed with deadly force and wearing a bulletproof vest and did it, he claimed, only to protect his children from an out of control madman. really? any rational person would know you don't protect your children by taking a gun to somebody's house to meet with them when you think that maybe there will be gunplay. you don't do that if you're a dad. dad's don't do that. >> no, keith, you know what would happen if it was you and you were in this situation based upon that comment? you would be standing right now on the edge of two graves. and you would be looking at it, and all your friends would tell you, it's okay, keith, there's nothing you could have done. well [ bleep ] that. because there was something i could do, and i had to play pattycake with this guy for six [ bleep ] months to keep my kids alive. >> reporter: and then you went and shot him? >> i went and i got shot. and i won. so because i won the gunfight, i know that i will not be standing on the side of my children's graves and people aren't going to be patting me on the back and saying, there's nothing you could have done. i did. >> reporter: oakes claimed mark stover shot first. thus the claim he now made. it was self-defense. even though no evidence ever surfaced to suggest stover was in possession of any firearm at all or that stover had ever arranged any meeting with oakes. and as for the story that he was a hired gun for the opdyckes, just not true, said michiel oakes. a great many people believe that one or both of the opdyckes are involved. were they involved? >> not at all. >> reporter: but of course it was all michiel's story. about a crazed dog whisperer, threats to his children, all of that fear. i mean, who else says that besides you and what evidence is it that he ever said such a thing? >> said such a thing as -- >> reporter: that he was threatening your kids. >> well, keith, it's been the problem. i survived that day in october. i was still alive. my life continued on, and we have yet to see if the state is going to finish the job for him or not. and i understand i'm in a bit of a fix. >> do you solemnly affirm to the truth the whole truth -- >> reporter: now he'll tell his story to the jury. would they believe it? coming up, the story comes complete with dramatic reenactments. >> that was amazingly fast, mr. oakes. is that the way you did that? >> that's how i was trained. >> when "the man who talked to dogs" continues. ues. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org discover. hi, what's this social security alert? 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[bird speaking] what do you think, kevin? no. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts. it's been a long time since andrew dusted off his dancing shoes. luckily denture breath will be the least of his worries. because he uses polident 4 in 1 cleaning system to kill 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. polident. clean. fresh. and confident. but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. welcome back. michiel oakes had dropped a bombshell. before taking the stand, the accused killer sat down in front of our cameras to admit he shot his girlfriend's ex-husband mark stover. it was self-defense he claimed to protect his children, more so than himself. now he was about to tell his story to the jury. here again is keith morrison. >> my name is michiel oakes. >> reporter: the task, as michiel oakes took the witness stand, was not going to be easy, and he seemed to know it. he had to admit he did in fact kill dog whisperer mark stover but somehow persuade the jury that it was only in self-defense. you heard what he told us, his allegations that stover confronted him threatened his children. he told the jury about what he claimed was stover's weird determination to get those wedding photos. oakes' version of the deadly events? after a series of meetings with stover about those photos, he demanded that oakes come to his house october 28th. and he obeyed. drove in the middle of the night across the state to stover's house. and admitted buying all those items at the walmart early in the morning on his way. >> i was very, very concerned about possibly needing to make some sort of on-foot escape in the woods from him and his dogs. >> reporter: he bought the anchor line and weights, he claimed to help him scale up a nearby water tower. and those shin guards, they weren't armor to depend off a watchdog he claimed; but just a gift for jennifer's young son. at 7:00 a.m., michiel testified that he knocked on mark stover's door. mark ordered him stand in his hallway bathroom and oakes simply obeyed. and then when he told mark he couldn't find any wedding pictures -- >> he got more and more animated and got very close to me and was very angry and very loud. >> reporter: and then -- >> he came around the corner with a gun in his hand. we tangled, and i got shot. >> reporter: john henry browne had his client put on the bulletproof vest and show the jury what he claimed happened next. courtroom show and tell. >> mr. stover pulled the gun out. he fired at you. >> mm-hmm. >> what do you do? that was amazingly fast. is that the way you did that? >> that's how i was trained. >> mr. stover was shot with his own gun? >> yes, he was. >> reporter: so now mark stover was dead in the hallway of his home. and soon after, said oakes, he went outside and was confronted by mark's dog ding. >> i shot a couple times until it stopped coming at me. >> reporter: so why didn't he call the police? >> he had said he owned the cops and seemed like there was some evidence that that might be true. i just didn't think they would believe me at all. >> reporter: then michiel said he wanted to see his kids before, as he said he assumed, he'd be arrested. he tucked mark's gun into his vest pocket, carried the body into the station wagon, got in the driver's seat, put his hat on and drove down the driveway. >> i drove around a while, sat there and thinking about how can i get to my kids? >> reporter: he thought maybe he'd leave mark's body in the car behind the grange hall. but it was locked chain. so he went and bought the bolt cutter, returned to the grange and those ladies saw him transferring mark's body to his own car and called the cops. >> when that police officer pulled you over, was mr. stover in the back of your suzuki? >> he was. >> reporter: he went to visit ex-wife jennifer, he said, because he wanted to see her two sons, though he never did. nor did he drive to see his own children who he said were in battleground, washington, a four-hour drive away. >> i realized that i couldn't drive to battleground with mr. stover in the back of my rig. >> reporter: so instead he said he ditched mark's car at that casino, looked around for a place to dump his body. >> there's a dilapidated looking dock thing. and i got my car as close to that as possible and muscled him out and dropped him in the water. >> reporter: an area investigators had searched but never found anything. then he said he drove across the state not to his kids but to linda's house. though, he insists he did not tell her any of what just happened. didn't tell her what he'd done. >> i just said i had had a really bad day. >> reporter: when police showed up the next night, he admitted, he did try to throw out some evidence. >> what was your intent? >> i needed one more day. i was trying to not get arrested just yet. >> reporter: but of course he was arrested and charged. and now it was the prosecutor's turn to challenge his story. about, for example, that morning at mark stover's house. >> did you hear the gun go off? >> i don't recall anything really. >> who pulled the trigger? >> i believe i did. >> was his fingers still on the trigger? >> you know, i do not know. >> where were you when you pulled the trigger? >> i don't know. >> where was the bullet hole? >> i don't know. >> you weren't curious enough to look? >> i was very disturbed. >> reporter: and despite all of those people who testified they were knocked back by the overwhelming smell of bleach -- >> i don't recall smelling any bleach. >> did you use any bleach? >> i did not. >> did you attempt to clean up anything? >> no. >> reporter: didn't try to erase evidence, he claimed. and as for those odd supplies he bought at the walmart -- >> so why did you need camouflage? >> if i was going to make my escape through the woods to the water tower, camouflage is quite useful for that. >> you would have the camouflage in your backpack that you would quickly change into as you ran through the woods? >> no. i would change into quickly and then run through the woods. >> but would this -- this is assuming that mr. stover is taking the time not to chase you? >> i'm very fast. >> reporter: and finally, the prosecutor asked, if he was so afraid of mark stover, why not tell someone? why go over to his house? >> you never took one step to enlist anyone's aid? >> that is correct. >> and you walked into mr. stover's house on october 28th? >> i did. >> and he tried to kill you? >> that is correct. >> and you did nothing beforehand to try to avoid that? >> i think i did a lot to try to avoid it. >> reporter: what the jury made of this story no one knew. but wait. the defense wasn't quite done. there was one more person. very important to all of this. who until midtrial had refused to say one word in public. the woman at the center of it all, linda opdycke -- >> ms. opdycke, would you raise your right hand? >> reporter: whose long silence was about to end. >> and end it would, with a bang, with stories of who she said was the real mark stover. coming up -- >> he's looking through the scope, pointing the rifle at me. >> when "the man who talked to dogs continues." hit the motherle of soft-serve ice cream? 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>> for months and months, since the murder of mark stover, his wife had maintained absolute silence. she invoked her fifth amendment right. so this, at the end of michiel oakes's murder trial was quite a surprise. linda opdycke, defense witness. >> i felt this was an important part of the story that i could tell about a dangerous stalking situation, and if there's any information that i could offer up, i wanted to do so. >> reporter: as she began, it was clear she was here to join the defense's campaign against victim mark stover's character. >> would you agree that mark stover was dogged in pursuit of his prey? >> yes, i would. >> reporter: the defense claimed michiel oakes knew linda opdycke had been stalked by her ex-husband and that went to his state of mind when he acted in defense. so now she heard some stories that she earlier had told oakes. her claim, for example, that mark appeared in her bedroom one night. >> and he had a pistol in his hand and laid it on the pillow next to my head and was very disturbed. >> reporter: and another time, she said, when she looked out her bathroom window. >> i see mark on a hillside behind my house. he is looking through the scope pointing the rifle at me. >> reporter: and once, said linda, long after she left him, after mark agreed to plead guilty to the stalking charge, she visited their abandoned paradise kiket island to retrieve some personal things. she found in the cubbyhole in the master bedroom a wedding candle she's thrown away during the divorce. >> i found the wedding candles in there with a .22 bullet casing and a picture of me along with that in the cubby hole. >> reporter: was it a message? a threat? in her cross-examination, it was pretty clear that prosecutor rosemar kaholokula was deeply skeptical about the allegations. no proof at all for the claims and linda had not seen or heard a word from stover in the year and a half before he was killed. so what was she and oakes so frightened about? >> the last time that you ever saw mr. stover or heard from mr. stover was at the protection order hearing in april of '08, correct? >> that is correct. >> reporter: but she certainly saw a lot of michiel oakes. >> you continued to have romantic feelings, intimate feelings towards mr. oakes and vice versa? >> yes. >> and in fact, i think you said that in our interview last week is that you loved him, correct? >> i don't recall if i said that or not, but i do, yes. >> reporter: and hadn't her new lover done her a favor, asked the prosecutor, by getting rid of the ex-husband she accused of causing her so much trouble? >> the fact is that in this case, you don't have to worry about mr. stover now, do you? >> it appears to be that case. >> and in that sense, the defendant helped you out, correct? >> no. >> reporter: the prosecutor kaholokula also asked opdycke about her refusal to answer certain questions in the case. >> now, it's correct, isn't it, that throughout the investigation of this case you've been concerned about your own potential legal liability in this case? >> yes. >> and you refused to speak with my office, correct? >> under a legal counsel, yes. >> reporter: this testimony now, in court, suggested the prosecutor, sounded like a woman with an obvious and selfish motive to support michiel oakes' claim of self-defense. >> isn't it true that if this is a case of self-defense, it gets you off the hook, too? >> what do you mean by that? >> you indicated you were concerned about your own potential liability in this case. things, law enforcement would have done an investigation and that probably would have been the end of this story. >> reporter: so why did oakes shoot and then kill his lover's ex-husband? the judge floated his own theory. >> how does the knight win the hand of the princess? he goes out and slays the dragon that's chasing the princess. and i think at a starting point here, mr. oakes believed he could free ms. opdycke from whatever was in her past, whatever dragons were chasing her and by so freeing her perhaps win her hand. >> reporter: the judge gave michiel oakes the maximum 26 1/2 years in prison. he is appealing his conviction. imagine how things been different if those two women, the biddies, oakes called them, not happened by the grange that morning in october. >> i guess we ended up being the main, you know, characters in ss this whole drama, i guess. >> reporter: two ladies who u thought oakes was where he shouldn't be and looked suspicious.teoaus they did what anyone would have done, they said, when they called police. now that they've been thinking about it some -- >> to be honest, i look at it this way. god put us where he wanted us, we saw what he wanted us to see, he protected us from what could have happened. t >> reporter: but of course a loa did happen. dreadful things. paradise lost. life taken. reputation besmirched by a murderer intent on blaming his victim.nt he was, said his friends, smart, funny, generous, unfailingly sa loyal, ever reliable. he could tame wild beasts with his whisper. not so easy to bring a human heart to heal. that's all for this edition of "dateline ofextra." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. where you just want to go back two minutes. just two minutes ago, he was laying beside me and he was alive.st and now he's gone forever. >> inside a sleeping house. an armed intruder hunts for prey. >> i heard angie scream, oh, my god, oh, my god. a i could see blood running down his neck. >> i nudged justin, and he ud didn't respond. >> her fiance had just been killed. but she's calm somehow. >> to me, very calm. i thought maybe there was a boyfriend on the side. some kind of a love triangle. >> but on a darkig
MoscowMoskvaRussiaAnacortesWashingtonUnited-statesSkagit-countySpainBrusselsBruxelles-capitaleBelgiumTurkeylikes. i thought wow, this guy didn't even asked to talk to him is already gone attorney and the attorneys already contacting us telling us not to contact wally updike? it was crazy. . linda hired an attorney right away. >> linda invoked her fifth amendment right to remain silent. the judge ultimately ordered her to sit for a deposition. still did not say anything. rematch every question we asked her she took the fifth on. >> so there was one defendant in the murder of mark stover. michael oakes. but he certainly didn't look the part of a hired killer. all five foot six of him, softspoken understated, articulates father of four. grandfather. >> he's not sure person you'd expect of a hitmen. >> but cassidy fence attorney seattle's colorful and irreplaceable john henry brown >> who was really kind
Linda-opdykeWally-updikeAttorneyU-sGuy-didn-tAttorneysLikesFifth-amendmentJudgeDefendantQuestionSay-anything>> john henry brown close with a powerful -- of esteem that mark stover was the bad guy. but even so he said oakes did not want or plan to kill him. >> you don't premeditate up to the point of shooting somebody, you premeditated the entire scenario. and what happened after this tragic event is absurd. he has absolutely no plan. and there's no plan afterwards i think that this leads to the conclusion that there is no plan beforehand. >> really? hair was the prosecutions closing. >> i will say the more charitable view of motive would be that miss opdyke and mr. oakes feared for their safety for some reason. but the evidence does not support it. the less charitable view is that the defendant said that on the path of cold calculated execution because there are
Kill-mark-stoverMichiel-oakesJohn-henry-brownPointShooting-somebodyPowerfulEsteemBad-guyDon-t-premeditatePlanScenarioEvent