>> well, if i might -- >> to make sure we are not making a mistake senator coops. >> it is my hope that if you are confirmed and we do make progress on bipartisan criminal justice reform that as attorney general you will carry out whatever legislative decisions might be made by this body. last let me say in my six years here in addition to not working on a number of bipartisan proposals on criminal justice reform you have repeatedly voted against congressional attempts to prohibit torture in the military on text or the interrogation context and to defend enhanced interrogation practices. are you clear now that our statutes prohibit torture and if the president were to rover yid that clear legal authority what actions would you take? >> on your previous question i would note the federal prison population has already dropped 10 or more percent and will drop
another 10,000 this year. what is happening now is reducing the federal population. this law only dealt with the federal prison population. and that represents the most serious offenders, our federal dea and u.s. attorneys are prosecuting more serious cases. with regard to the torture issues, i watched them for some time and have been concerned about what we should do about it. the bill that passed last time was a major step. i thought it was really not the right step. senator graham, i know, has been an opponent of torture steadfastly and supported a lot of different things, opposed it. it basically took -- what i was teaching the young soldiers at the army reserve unit as a lecturer as a teacher, the army field manual.
listening to democratic senator after democratic senator give speeches in praise of the rule of law. i am heartened by that i am encouraged by that. because for eight years it's been absent. for eight years, we've seen a department of justice consistently disregarding the rule of law. when eric holer's department of justice allowed illegal gun transactions, illegally sold guns to mexican gun traffickers as part of fast and furious, guns that were later used to murder border patrol agent brian terry, the democratic member of this committee were silent. when eric holder was found in contempt of congress for refusing to cooperate with congress's investigation into fast and furious, once again the democratic members this committee were silent. when the irs illegally targeted united states citizens for exercising the first amendment views for exercising their roles
in the political process, democratic members of this committee were silent. when the department of justice refused to fairly investigate the irs targeting citizens and indeed assign the investigation to a liberal partisan democratic who had given over $6,000 to president obama and democrats, democrats on this committee were silent. when numerous members of this committee called on the attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor to ensure that justice was done on the irs case democrats on this committee were silent. when the justice department began using operation choke point to target law-abiding citizens that they disagreed with politically. >> you are a racist! you are ties in the kkk. you are -- [ inaudible ] black lives matter, black lives matter, black lives matter!
guantanamo terrorists without the notification of congress, the democrats on this committee were silent. that pattern has been dismaying for eight years but i take today as a moment of celebration. if once again this committee has a bipartisan commitment to rule of law, to following the law, that is a wonderful thing and it is consistent with the tradition of this committee, going back centuries. now if we were to play a game of tit for tat, if what was good for the goose were good for the gander then a republican attorney general should be equally partisan, should disregard the law, should advance political preferences favored by the republican party. senator sessions do you believe that would be appropriate for an torney general to do? >> no, i do no i believe you -- and i think we do have to be aware that when something like this is done and some of the things i'm familiar with enough to agree with you that i thought were improper, i do believe it has a corrosive effect on public confidence in
the constitutional republic of which we are sworn to uphold. >> i think you are exactly right. you and i are both alumni of the department of justice, and it has a long bipartisan tradition of staying outside of partisan politics, of simply and fairly enforcing the law. i will say right now if i believed that you would implement policies, even policies i agreed with, contrary to law. i would vote against your confirmation. the reason i'm so enthusiast enthusiastically supporting your confirmation is i have every degree of confidence you will follow the law faithfully and honestly. and this is the first and most important obligation of the attorney general. now, earlier in this hearing senator franken engaged you in a discussion that i think was intended to try to undermine your character and integrity. and in particular, senator franken suggested that you had
somehow misrepresented your record. it is unfortunate to see emembes of this body impugn the integrity of a senator with whom we have served for years. it is particularly unfortunate when that attack is not backed up by the facts. senator franken based his attack primarily on an op ed written by an attorney, gerald hebert. there is an irony in relying on mr. hebert, because as you know, 1996 mr. hebert testified then and attacked you then, making false charges against you. indeed i would note in the 1996 hearing two days later mr. hebert was forced to recant his testimony to say he had given false testimony to this committee and to say, i apologize to any inconvenience to this committee or mr.
theation and with non-criminal civil rights cases was to provide support for the civil rights division attorneys. i reviewed signed and cosigned briefs and others filed during my tenure. i provided assistance and guidance to the civil rights attorneys, had an open door policy with them and cooperated with them on these cases. for the cases described in 6, i supervised litigation and sign the pleading. that is consistent with the 1986 testimony that you provided help every step of the way; is that correct? >> i think, yes. >> there is no question you have been forthright with this committee and i would note that members of this committee don't have to search far and wide to know who jeff sessions is. we've known every day sitting at this bench alongside you. i want to shift to a different topic, and it's the topic i opened with which is the politicization of the department of justice. the office of legal counsel has a critical role of providing sound, legal and constitutional
advice both to the attorney general and the president. in the last eight years we have seen a highly politicized olc. an olc that has given politically convenient rulings whether on recess appointments, whether on executive amnesty. and early on, perhaps that was started by 2009 attorney general holder overruling olc concerning legislation trying to grant the district of columbia representation in congress. and it may well be that that sent a message to olc that its opinions were to be political and not legal in nature. tell me, senator session what will you do as attorney general to restore professionalism and fidelity of the law to the office of legal counsel. >> senator, i think any short-term political agenda gapes that come from the abuse of -- the law making processes and requirements of the department of justice just don't
make sense. it will always in the long run be more damaging than the short-term gain that one might have. the office of legal counsel, all of us who have served in the department know, is a bigtime position. you need a mature, smart, experienced person who understands this government, who understands the laws and is principled and consistent in their application of the laws. that will help the president. it will help the congress. it will help the american people. i do believe we need to work hard to have that, and i will do my best to ensure we do have it. >> one final question. in the last eight years the deputy of justice's slit for general office has also i believe been unfortunately political sized. it and it sustained a unprecedented number of losses before the united states supreme court. indeed, president obama's justice department won less than half of its total cases before the supreme court, which is the lowest presidential win rate
since harry truman. the average historically for the last 50 years has been about 70%. snum rouse of those cases were unanimous with indeed both obama supreme court appointees voting against the lawless positions of this justice department including their assertion that the government has the authority to supervise and direct the appointment and the hiring and firing of clergy in the church. what will you do as attorney general to ensure the integrity of the office of slitter general that it is faithful to the law and not advancing extreme political positions like the obama justice department did that have been rejected over and over again by the supreme court? >> i think the problem there is a desire to achieve a result sometimes that overrides the commitment to the law. in the long run, this country will be stronger if we adhere to the law even though somebody might be frustrated in the short-term of not achieving an agenda. the solicitor general should not
advocate to alter the meaning of words to advance an agenda. that is an abuse of office and i would try to seek to have a slit for general who is faithful to the constitution, serves under the constitution, does not feel that its that power to rise above it and make it say what it wants it to say. >> thank you senator sessions. >> we've been watching this hearing now since the morning hours. we want to get a quick accounting of what our correspondents have been able to learn, starting with kelly o'donnell who covers capitol hill for us and has been stationed outside the hearing room. kelly, what have you picked up? >> brian, this is of course the entrance to the kennedy caucus room where this hearing and many others in history have taken place. and i think what is particularly striking today is how you see republicans trying to prepare and protect jeff sessions in terms the criticism coming his way, and democrats who are working to elicit areas where they think there are weaknesses
in his testimony or discrepancies in his record or thing they can try to ship a light on because democrats don't have the numbers to block this confirmation but they want to expose -- -- forward barring any unforeseen circumstance. you really get a sense today of the mood here. as the first confirmation hearing, one with high stakes, a huge role, and nominee who does have some controversy in his past, the energy here in the russel senate office buildings with protesters, with international media here, and with all the people associated with staging a hearing like this, putting this on, it has been a day where you really get a sense that this is when congress can do its work with the nation paying attention. and these are real issues that are raw nerves for many americans.
and they are getting a hearing today. sessions has been put through a lot of practice. we could hear that in some of his responses where he knew that there might be some areas in his record or his past statements that needed to be fixed a bit. and some of the republicans have tried to give him a forum to answer the critic. and we've seen that unfold today. >> kelly o'donnell on the hill. to pete williams we go next. pete, the folks that haven't watched a hearing, a high-profile hearing like this for long time would be forgiven for forgetting that this is really a team sport. various members of both teams go up, take their turns, make their points, try to score some points. so it would be so unusual indeed for this committee to knock down, to reject a nominee for a cabinet job. >> correct. and i think what you are seeing here is exactly that a well coordinated evident here among
the democrats. all of them seem to be asking about a different facet of jeff sessions either of his time as the u.s. attorney and prosecutor in alabama and his time as a u.s. senator. and they are not repeating each other for the most part although there have been several questions here about for example, what if donald trump insists on trying to reimpose water boarding? would you advise him that that's against the law? sessions has said several times that he would. the question of voting rights has come up repeatedly today as well. senator sessions seemed to go out of his way although only with one sentence, to say that he believes civil rights are very important, specific voter rights. voter id has been a controversial issue, it's one that the justice department has been suing states over what they consider to be restrictive voter id laws. senator sessions said on the surface it did not appear to him
that state voter id laws actually suppress the minority vote. so elections have consequences. there are going to be many case ways in which in justice department under donald trump is different than under barack obama. i think today is an effort both to try to tease out his views that will be different but also to try to set some markers here and putting himself on the record on issues like civil rights and the voting rights act. >> we are starting a busy week. while we've been talking, up with of two other hearings have been going on. the nation's command structure and intelligence has been appearing over in front of senate intelligence. what has been gained or learned from that hearing? >> i don't know, brian, because i have been watching this one. but senator sessions was asked today about the intel committee report, which as you know donald trump has shown some skepticism about its conclusion.
and what mr. session said today is he has no reason to doubt the intelligence report about russian hacking. and he has seen no evidence to the contrary. nothing to indicate that the report is wrong. in other words, he's not exactly embraced it, but nothing -- we won't distance himself from night pete williams sharing with our viewers a fundamental truth. while watching one hearing we can't be expected to watch another at the same time. never been done as far as i know. pete, thank you very much. and thanks as always for your honesty. we're going to take a break in our coverage on the other side katie tur is here and standing by in our new york studios to take this hour the rest of the way. >> turns out that attorney general nominee jeff sessions and chuck schumer have a similar morning routine. >> do you work out in the gym with senator sessions? what does he do and what do you do. >> we are on the bikes next to each other oftentimes watching morning joe and making
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he is sitting before the senate intelligence committee for a hearing on russian hacking. this is his first time speaking publicly since the presidential election. first to session's nomination hearing which was mark bite repeated protests, the alabama senator sitting before that committee since roughly 9:30 this morning in a hearing that's expected to last two days. here's a quick recap of what we have heard so far. >> i abhor the klan and what it represents and its hateful etiology. i believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary clinton. >> how do you feel about a foreign entity trying to interfere in our election? >> i think it's i go can't event. >> i'm not asking if you believe it influenced it just if you belief the report of our intelligence agencies? >> i have no reason to doubt that and have no evidence that
would indicate otherwise. i have no belief and do not support the idea in a muslims as a religious group should be denied admission to the united states. i do believe that if you continually go through a cycle of amnesty that you undermine the respect for the law and encourage more illegal immigration into america. >> down the hallway at the capitol fbi director james comey being asked what he knew about and when about reports russia hacked america's election. >> there is no doubt that the russians attacked intruded and took data from some of those systems. >> joining me now from the hill, casey hunt. and from the pentagon, hans nickels. casey, let's start with you. senator sessions was grilled on civil rights, women's rights, hate crimes, immigration, his ability to say no to donald trump. the muslim ban, torture, russian hacking, freedom of the press.
what so far has been the major headline? and is there anything in there that could potentially, if not derail his confirmation, then pose a hurdle? >> at this point katie i think the short answer is we haven't heard anything that stands out as something that's really going to be a sticking, tripping block for jeff sessions on his road to confirmation. now, that said, before we go through a couple of those other issues one thing that we did see some late focus on was senator al franken's line of questioning. what franken did was essentially press jeff sessions on his history fighting for civil rights. so jeff sessions, the trump transition team have worked very hard to highlight areas of his resume when he served as alabama attorney general and in other roles fighting on behalf of civil rights. essentially trying to push back against this narrative that emerged when sessions was denied that federal judgeship over
questions about remarks to colleagues that his colleagues said were racist. so that's been their kind of whole way of looking at this. what franken did was try to poke holes in that, asked sessions did you prosecute 20 or 30 cases about desegregation or was it really just a few? that was the one moment when we saw sessions struggle a little bit to answer questions. you heard senator ted cruz just before we started talking here focusing a little bit on that trying to give sessions some points of defense of course if you will, trying to say that yes he did work on those issues. but other than that, katie, i think a lot of the points that democrats have hit on through these hearings we expected. we expected the focus on the violence against women act. we expected the focus on race. of course some of those issues came up under questioning from republicans. lindsey graham pushing senator sessions on that russian hacking question. that was a potentially risky place for sessions to be.
he was questioned whether he does believe the fbi's assessments, other things like that. i think atmospherically the protests very much a central point of this and underscore kind of the public pressure around this nomination. but so far i'm not hearing anybody say that this hearing means that sessions is any less likely to be confirmed. >> what will be the democrats' strategy going forward? i know we've seen a number of protests in the hall trying to disrupt this hearing. but this is just the first of many confirmation hearings we are going to be getting this week. what is going to be the general strategy for the democrats? is this just a situation where they are going to be trying to question each nominee as a proxy to donald trump because they can't question him directly? >> in some cases, yes, that's true. session is particular because of his background on civil rights and because there are so many activists who are really focused on this nomination. and you saw that in the protests here today. i think you are going to see different strategies for other nominees. you are going to see probably an
ideological activist focus around people like tom price for health and human services. i think you will see a focus on russia and hacking with rex tillerson for example. i think each one is going to bring up a new set of questions. i think the nominees that republicans and the transition team are most concerned about and ones where democrats see most tune might be flying under the radar. one i want to highlight is the nominee fortressry secretary. he has to turn over his tax returns. there was a lot of money spent and that he made in a lot of ways that the democrats are going to question. the housing crisis for example. republicans don't think he is going to be as polished as rex tillerson might be tomorrow or as jeff sessions has been today. >> we have seen a number of protests in that room. interesting to point out that that is the same room as we've seen the watergate hearings. it's where clarence thomas had
his hearings. it's also the very first investigation they ever did in that room was 1912, the investigation into the sinking of the titanic. a little -- the more you know right there. let's turn to our pentagon correspondent who has been monitoring the other hearing that's going on on capitol hill right now. james comey in front of the senate intelligence committee. this is the first time we've seen the fbi director since the election. hans, talk to me about what we are hearing so far. he is there to testify about russianacking and he was asked very specifically if the fbi investigated any of president-elect donald trump's ties to russia. what was his answer on that? >> well, his challenge throughout this entire hearing is not to give too much away in terms of sources and methods. but listen to what he had to say actually about the forensics of what they know. >> our forensics folks would always prefer to get access to the original device or server that's involved. so it's the best evidence. >> were you given access to do the forensics on those servers?
>> we were not. we were -- a highly respected private company eventually got access and shared with us what they saw there. >> katie the main point, main takeaway from this hearing versus last week this senate select committee on intelligence seem much more partisan. we have seen a number of senators block and tackle for the president-elect essentially make his point that they don't necessarily think the hacking influence was dispositive on the election and we've seen democrats similarly looking to those panelists, looking to the fbi director, dni director clapper that russia clearly meddled and tried to influence the election. last week you had republicans, john mccain saying it was an act of war. this committee seems more partisan less impartial than the one last week. one final piece of information. we are watching both hearings hear.
you just saw senator sessions make the point that he does not think that enhanced interrogation, torture, isly. that is a clear departure from the alberto gonzalez point that you can always have some enhanced interrogation. >> that's a departure from what donald trump said on the campaign trail, that he believes water boarding is not torture and it is an effective form of interrogation. he since tried to walk that back a little or change his stance on it since he found out that james mattis his nominee for defense secretary didn't necessarily believe it. james, one other point. s in the first time we've seen james comey since the election. 11 days before the election he came out and revuved, if you will, the investigation into hillary clinton's e-mails. are we expecting to hear him address that in any way? are the democrats going the try to get him on record or have they already for how he -- whether he believes he might have unduly influenced the
election with that release? >> my kptation katie heading into this was that he was clearly going to be grilled on that i have not heard a question on that. i have pete williams to thank for this -- it's really hard to watch two hearing at once but i have not heard that. pete williams is a better reporter than me. let me offer that. and you don't need a second source on that. williams, better than nicholls. >> pete williams is great. hans nicholls, you are proven to be great as well. thank you for joining me. >> joining me now, cornell williams brooks and cedric richmond. mr. brooks, i want to start with you. senator sessions tried vehemently to say he was not a racist, to push back against this caricature of him that was painted in 1996 when he first went in front of the hearings to try to get a federal judgeship but was unsuccessful in that. has he said or done anything today that makes you feel like he has changed or he is somebody
that will be a defender of civil rights in this country, a defender of the causes of the naacp. >> no. i have not heard anything to suggest that he is fit to lead the department of justice. the fact of the matter is we are not -- our endeavor is not to -- nor is our burden to prove that he is a racist. but it is our burden as attested to by the record that he is not fit, nor is he inclined to protect american citizens from racial discrimination. so when you look at the record, going back to 1986 where you had federal officials testifying under oath as to racially offensive remarks -- when you look at those remarks, that behavior, and the conduct, the legislation, the record from then until now we find nothing that assures american citizens that they will be protected by senator sessions as attorney general of the united states. so when it comes to voter
suppression we have courts in the fifth circuit and the fourth circuit that have found voter id laws, voter suppressives and racial dim in aer to. in the state of alabama you have a voter id law. in his home statement he said not a mumbling word about that id law and has in fact suppressed support for voter id laws. we have 21 million americans whose right to the franchise is in peril, threatened by voter id laws. he has not made it clear that that would be a prosecutorial priority. so simply mouthing the words voter rights, as you mouth faith in voter fraud, which is a predicate for voter suppression does not offer us any assurance at all that he can lead the department of justice. so what we've seen today is some deference to senator sessions for his tenure, his time, his
collegiality in the senate as opposed to expressing confidence in his constitutional suitability to lead the department of justice. when we look at his record respect to criminal justice reform he stands for mandatory minimums in a country and at a moment when we have 2.3 million americans behind bars, 1 million fathers behind bars, 65 million plus americans with a criminal record and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of activists in the streets across our country who are standing against this era of mass incarceration. we draw no assurance from his record. when it comes to immigration rights, he stood against any and every form of comprehensive immigration reform in this country in the senate. and so if we are going to give him credit for his collegiality in the senate, we also have to give him accountability for his legislative record in the senate. make no mistake. >> stay with us mr. brook. congressman richmond i want to bring you in. you are part of the congressional black caucus. they held a news conference over
the course of the last few weeks and they have been voicing concerns about the session nominations. you yourself will be testifying against senator sessions on bhaft of the cbc tomorrow. what are you planning to say? and how are you planning to convince your fellow congressmen that maybe senator sessions is not the right choice for e.g.? >> i think that cornell laid out a very good description of the concerns that we have. the position of attorney general is a very serious position. tur top law enforcement officer in the kuchbl you will enforce civil rights. you will enforce voting rights. and senator session's records on voting rights is suspect at best. at worst, he is a participant in disenfranchising people and voting is the roots to the treef democracy. >> congressman -- >> those are the concerns we have. >> these are two different jobs. his job as a senator is not
necessarily the same as his job as -- if he gets confirmed as an attorney general. in one case he is trying to shape laws and advocating for laws or voting against laws. in another, he is slated to uphold the laws that already exist. are you not confident that he as a professional, he as a lawyer, as a civil servant, will be able to disassociate himself from his own personal viewpoints? and uphold the laws as they stand on the books? >> well, if you look at his record from when he was attorney general in alabama or you look at his complete body of work, part of the role of the attorney general of the united states is to make sure that policing and justice is done on a fair basis. he has already expressed his concern and his thoughts that consent decrees were intrusive. and if consent decrees are the department of justice's vehicles
to make sure that police departments across the country, new orleans, baltimore and others are under cop sent decrees to make sure that justice is done and justice is applied across the board. let's not talk about all the desegregation cases for education that are still out there. there are 30 education cases under consent decree to make sure that children from every zip code will be treated fairly in terms of quality access to a public education. and the attorney general of the united states has a responsibility to ensure those thing. his record, his words, i think demonstrate that he does not have the desire to do it and he wouldn't do it. in those roles of the department of justice are just as important as any of the other roles. >> congressman richmond, very quickly because i want to get mr. brooks' take on this as well. it looks like he will be confirmed. are you going to be able to work with him going forward? >> well, part of our duties is oversight.
and to make sure that the rules and the guidance of not only the deputy of justice but all of the departments are followed. and to that extent, we will never give up our right of oversight and our congressional responsibility to make sure that the department is running in that matter. but we are pushing for criminal justice reform. and senator sessions was an obstacle to criminal justice reform to the extent that he would see the light and all of the data and come along with criminal justice reform we will work with him. but i believe our role is going to be to make sure that the department of justice upholds its oath and it fights against discrimination based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, and all of the other things. and i -- so far us, we are going to be in oversight mode making sure that the department does what it's supposed to do. >> mr. brooks, quickly, if you can, where does the naacp go from here? >> where do we go from here?
we double down in terms of our opposition. we have to be very clear about this. this is a perilous moment in american history where this nation is deeply divided by race, where the criminal justice system seems to represent injustice for so many people around the country. and so we are very clear, we have to hold senator sessions accountable for his lack of commitment to using consent decrees where we have police departments in ferguson to baltimore to cleveland where consent decrees are a vehicle through which we hold police departments accountable and we bring communities and police together. we have to take this nomination seriously. and it is not a foregone conclusion that he will be confirmed. make it clear. from 1789 until now, the senate has had the responsibility of not engaging in a political coronation, but in fact engaging in a democratic confirmation process in which they assess the
fitness of the attorney general nominee to be attorney general. and we are going to make the case until the last possible moment. we will register our concerns. we will register our discontent in terms of our views and opinions, our perspective under the constitution. not only will we articulate them with our mouths but also with our bodies in terms of civil disobedience. be clear, this process continues as we speak, and the naacp opposes this nomination as we see. >> we will see. one more dave hearings. thank you gentlemen. next up, new reaction from the trump transition about today's confirmation hearings as the president-elect himself prepares to hold his first news conference since his white house win. that is expected to happen tomorrow. stay with us.
president-elect of the united states. it's going to be his first news conference in more than 160 days, since mid-july. and it's happening just nine days before his inauguration. as of now, all signs point to it actually happening, too. joining me now from our washington newsroom, peter alexander. let's talk about this news conference -- before we get to the news conference let's first talk about how the transition team is reacting to senator session's testimony today. it's very clear that he was well prepared for this. are they feeling like he is well representing not only himself but donald trump's presidency? >> i think before we do this we need to put something that says spin alert on the bottom of the screen. they are not going to say they think he is getting crushed. they are going to say they are satisfied. i spoke with one of the persons who was hyped the scenes in the process of preparing. they say they couldn't be happier with this.
they say his performance has been excel.. they say he has been confounding all the car,tures the left wing group has been trying to sell over the last weeks. they insist that the democrats are struggling. the bottom line is another individual close to the transition told us he is presenting himself as compassionate, as level headed and as a constitutional thinker. they recognize that they are on home field advantage right now. it is a more than likely despite all the protest you have seen there that he will have sufficient support because obviously republicans have majority right how. >> spin alert indeed let's talk about tomorrow's news conference. he is expected to talk about his business dealings and the ways he is going to go forward by handing it over to his children. what else are we expecting to hear from mr. trump? what sort of topics could be covered? there is a myriad of them, right? >> i think you are exactly right. this is the first time he has held one of these news conferences in more than
160-something days right now. so reporters, you and i and others have obviously been gathering up our questions. there are a variety of top i. the best opportunity we've had to sort of pin him down on questions related to the intelligence report and other which come in the short he can changes when he comes down from his tower at trur tower on fifth avenue. >> the golden escalator. >> i trust will there will be questions about russia, especially the intelligence. has said russia is not the only perpetrator of these types of crimes. he refers to china and others. and others in his team has said too much focus has been put on russia. obviously questions in other places in that region, syria as well. obamacare going to be a significant conversation pooesz piece as well. >> also foreign to remind the audience last time he had a news conference during the dnc that's when he encouraged the russia to
find hillary clinton's memes. those notable. the "new york times" is saying he is going to be encouraging republicans to immediately repeal obamacare. he is saying that if it takes weeks it will be too long. but he also wants them to have a plan in place to replace it. that doesn't seem like that is likely to happen. is this just him using his bully pulpit to get them to move quickly -- more quickly than maybe congress normally does? >> here's the challenge here. here's in part what he said to the "new york times." he said we have to get to business. obamacare has been a catastrophic event. the challenge here is that his position is saying there should be an immediate repeal of obamacare. and then within a matter of two to three weeks perhaps a replacement put in place as the fact there is no replacement available right now. the vote on the process begin as early as this week in terms of repeeping right now. you have some republicans who want to see a repeal but they also want to have an immediate
replacement. we are concerned in the repeal happens too soon it could take a couple of years to have a replacement. i've been interviewing some at the freedom caucus and elsewhere, and they have admitted we don't have a plan. we have a lot of plans, paul ryan among others say they need time to develop the replace men plan. it's going to be difficult. >> let's continue on this track talking about donald trump's urging of congress to repeal obamacare. joining me now is political analyst robert costa. no one better has a direct line into the donald trump transition and to donald trump himself than you do, robert. now talk to me. how frustrated is he potentially going to be seeing that congress does not work as quickly as maybe he would expect them to? or maybe he is used to in his business dealings?
>> quite frustrated. the u.s. congress here at the capitol is by no means like the trump organization. things move at a glacial pace in congress. it is difficult to get rid of the obamacare because of all the different taxes and to make sure the insurance system doesn't collapse. while they want to get rid of the health care law as soon as possible the process could take not only weeks but months. >> as you are talking you should mention that senator sessions as you can see on our screen is still being grilled, if you will, on capitol hill. his hearing started at 9:30. it has been quite a long time. it is going to go through tomorrow. talk to me about how the transition is preparing not only senator session but the other nominees, if you will, for four cab -- for cabinet position. they are doing mock hearings. they are trying to get them prepared for a myriad of
questions from democrats, trying to find a way to make them as non-controversial as they possibly can be? >> that's exactly right, katie. senator sessions because he is a member of the club in congress s a member of the senate, he hasn't had as extensive preparations or concerns. of course he has gotten ready for these hearings but he is seen as someone who in spite of his report, quite conservative by all accounts, from both parties, he will be likely confirmed even as there are some protests from democrats. other nominees on the agenda, such as rex tillerson, the oil executive, former head of exxonmobil they are getting much more training. tillerson has been media savvy during his career. he has a large public profile as a major executive at a global corporation but it's different here at this stage. >> tomorrow we have donald trump's press conference. we also have news that jared kushner is going to be a senior
adviser, that's his daughter ivanka's husband. a ton of news coming out of the trump transition. there will continue to be i suspect in the days to come. stay with user, robert costa joining us from the hill. next, president obama's last address to the nation in just hours before donald trump becomes america's 45th commander in chief. this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.
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confirmations of an attorney general in modern times. because usually you have got a president with long public service experience. you know where he stands on voting rights, civil rights, criminal justice. not donald trump. nor has he ever dealt with an attorney general before. so what you have seen is these senators trying to get sessions essentially to agree to certain precedents serving a president who delights in breaking traditions and precedents so they will have some assurance on what is going to happen. >> let's talk about president obama. he gives his final address tonight. going back home to chicago essentially trying to recapture a lib of that grant park feeling he had back in 2008 when he accepted the presidency. talk to me about what you expect to hear from him. and where will this rank in terms of presidential farewells? >> i think what we will hear is some prompting to people like me, historians, what we should think and write about barack obama in the future.
we had farewell addresses from truman and eisenhower and reagan. these were all people along the years. barack obama presumably has decades ahead in his career. presumably we'll hear him say this is what i think i have done and this is why it's relevant to the country in the future. >> we should also note that the hearing with fbi director james comey has now ended. stay here on mbz to watch complete coverage of president obama's final address. also complete coverage of all of the hearing news we're coming out of today. ahead of the president's speech you can watch all of these different shows on mbz and nbc. and lester holt of "nbc nightly news" with sit down with president obama exclusively. you can watch that conversation friday night on nbc. check your local listings. that does it for this hour of mbz live. kate snow picks thiks up right now. >> we have a lot to cover this
"access hollywood" video. jessica leeds told the times she was assigned the seat next to donald trump in first class on an airplane 35 years ago when donald trump was still flying on commercial airplanes. she said he politely introduced himself. but then after the meal was served and the trays were taken away, donald trump started putting his hands all over her and grabbing her. here is some of her video interview with "the new york times." >> if he had stuck with the upper part of the body, i might not have gotten -- i might not have gotten that upset. but it's when he started putting his hand up my skirt, and that was it. that was it. i -- i was out of there. >> the other woman in tonight's "new york times" report is rachel crooks, who is 22 years old in 2005 when she was working as a receptionist in a company
located in trump tower. here is how the times describes what happened the first time she saw donald trump in the building and introduced herself. they shook hands, but mr. trump would not let go, she said. instead he began kissing her cheeks. then he kissed me directly on the mouth. both women said that watching the presidential debate on sunday was infuriating, especially this moment. >> just for the record, though, you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago, that you did not actually kiss women without consent or grope women without consent? >> i great respect for women. nobody has more respect for women than i do. >> so for the record you're saying you never did that? >> frankly, you hear these things said. and i was embarrassed by it. but i have tremendous respect for women. >> have you ever done those things? >> and women have respect for me. and i will tell you, no, i have not. >> in a telephone interview with "the new york times," donald trump said none of this ever took place. shouting at the times reporter who was questioning him.
mar el lago in florida where she was working as a photographer's assistant. ray charles was performing. tasha dixon, a contestant in the 2001 miss teen, let me say that again, miss teen usa pageant said this today about donald trump. >> he just came strolling right in. there was no second to put a robe on or any sort of clothing or something. some girls were topless. other girls were naked. to have the owner come waltzing in when we're naked or half naked in a very physically vulnerable position, and then to have the pressure of the people that work for him telling us to go fawn all over him. >> and tonight robert costa is reporting from "washington post" that donald trump intends to make good on his threat to "the new york times." he says that donald trump's lawyers are drafting a lawsuit against "the new york times" that could be announced at any moment. and nancy giles, a lawsuit that
still sort of seems like a he said-she said in a way. but these women did tell people contemporaneously what happened. we also have a pattern of behavior from trump that is pretty clear. the thing about these october surprise series that they're not surprising at all. >> right. donald trump issued a statement tonight in which he said the campaign anyway said to reach back decades -- this, by the way, please listen to every word of this. this is so ironic in light of what the trump campaign has been up to. to reach back decades in an attempt to smear mr. trump trivialized sexual assault. and it sets a new low for where the media is willing to go in its efforts to determine this election. maria teresa, that's the guy who reached back decades sunday night to invite women from decades ago in bill clinton's life to the debate. tonight the trump campaign says you must never, ever reach back decades. >> well, and he did it purposely
to intimidate and humiliate his opponent in the most grossest of ways. because she could not control what happened 30 years ago that had nothing to do with her but her husband. that's what is absolutely obscene. but what donald trump has, his hardest part is actually taking ownership of when he does something wrong. the fact that we have types of him, decades long tapes of him going on howard stern, degrading women constantly, even making fun of how he actually can interact with his own daughter can make us feel uncomfortable. this is a pattern. this is who he is. if americans want to vote for him, let's be clear. this is the person who he there. is no plan b and there is no other donald trump. this is the person that we are seeing every single day. and most recently, lawrence, i think you saw he was at a pennsylvania rally, and he said look, you know that i'm a snake. you voted me in. you nominated me. so he knows who he is. and now he realizes that it's women who are going to get him to the white house. i said this before. it's going to be ironic that now
we have muslim american military family that is going bring him down. we have a latina beauty queen that is going to bring him down and women are going to bring him down. >> i want to read another piece of the statement because it is just breathtaking. he says it is absurd to think that one of the most recognizable business leaders on the planet with a strong record of empowering women in his companies would do the things alleged in this story. and nancy giles, this is the campaign that firmly believes catherine willie's story about bill clinton in the white house when he was rather recognizable as president of the united states. >> oh, yeah. >> if you're going with the unrecognizable guy won't do this theory, how do you explain what they're saying about bill clinton every day? >> you don't. because it doesn't make sense and it doesn't follow any kind of logic. i guess roger ailes could say the same thing about his network where he employees a lot of women and he is also -- you know, it brings up a couple of things for me. and i want to echo something maria teresa said.
and that's how gross it is he tries to conflate his action was bill clinton's. i am in no way condoning anything bill clinton did. but hillary is the candidate. and there is something kind of sexist about him kind of bypassing her and going to bill as if there is anything going there that can balance his reckless actions. anybody that watches "law & order" knows that if you're a defense attorney, you're going to defend even people that have done horrible things. so what is he trying to say about hillary? he's got nothing to say about her, and any kind of actions she might have done that are equating to what he did. >> everyone should be reading this "new york times" piece tonight or tomorrow. but i want to read one passage of it. because it takes you into the life of someone who has this kind of thing happen to them. this is rachel crooks. and it's her boyfriend at the time who is describing what he came home to that night. he said i asked how was your day, mr. hackenberg recalled. she paused for a second and then
started hysterically crying. after ms. crooks described her experience with mr. trump, she and mr. hackenberg discussed what to do. i think that what was more upsetting than him kissing her is she felt she couldn't do anything to him because of his position, he said. she was 22. she was a secretary. it was her first job out of college. i remember her saying i can't do anything to this guy because he's donald trump. and anna marie, that is one of the looks inside one of these horrible stories. >> i mean, i don't know where to begin. you brought me back, quite honestly. i mean, i have to say, i am very concerned for a lot of women out there. because i was brought back by that statement by something that happened to me when i was a young woman. i would be so shocked if the other two women you're speaking to haven't had something similar happen to them. something like that happened to me when i was young and i couldn't do anything about it. that is what happens to women. that is why this is so
preposterous that if donald trump wants to go to war on this, this is such a different animal than what happened with bill clinton. for one thing, as we are saying, bill clinton is not running for office. for the other thing, donald trump is a predator. he is a predator who thinks that his so-called celebrity can allow him to do anything. there are women that want to show that's not possible there are women that want to say, no it doesn't allow you to do anything, and i'm going to show you by voting against you. >> what -- >> i just want to follow up one thing with anna marie, and then i'll come to you. i want to hear you all on this particular point that i'm about to ask. i want to go, anna marie, to this perception that mr. hackenberg, that her boyfriend had at the time. it was his perception in the passage i just read that he felt that she was more upset, more upset by the feeling of powerlessness after the fact than the actual moment in his company. >> i think that describes
perfectly what happens for woman when this happens. in the moment, you actually have some physical agency unless it's somebody a lot bigger than you, which does happen. but you can kind of turn away run away. it's afterwards when you realize you can't do anything about it and if it happens again you also can't do anything about it. this is toxic. this is completely toxic for trump's campaign. he will not recover from this. >> maria teresa, please go ahead. >> this is the silver lining. people across the country are having these conversations with their husbands, with their spourks with their sons. these are the limitation. this is when you have to have consent. this is the only thing i think will actually bring to the top how pervasive this is in our culture, and the fact that no one is going to be getting away with it is i think fantastic. i have to applaud the athletes. the athletes have come out and said this is not wanter in the locker room. this is not acceptable. you actually see men coming forward and saying we have to stop this and making sure that women feel safe in their own
agency. >> i have appreciated that so much, hearing the athletes saying what we talk about in the locker rooms are stocks and bonds. >> right. >> what the traffic was like on the way to work. and i also have to say how much i really hate that part of what is being said by his campaign is these aren't matters that interest women. this isn't what is important. women want jobs. yeah, they want jobs, but they want to feel safe in the workplace. they want equal pay, and they don't want to feel like someone in authority can bully them or sexual assault or harass them. so this is one of the most important things i think, one of the most important issues facing this country and facing the world, frankly. so i'm glad that it's getting out there and getting some steam. >> we have a lot of video to get to tonight, and a lot of ground to cover. so we're going to have to go to a break in a moment. i just want to -- nancy has made the point that on howard stern, donald trump, and we don't have the time to play this right now. we're going to play it later in the show. donald trump bragged about the fact that he owns the beauty pageants and the teenage girl beauty pageants allows him to
walk into the dressing room whenever he wants, to and he picks the time to walk in there that is most exploitive. and ana marie, we have that on video. that's another donald trump confession on video that he is joking about with howard stern, that he never thought was going to come back to him in his life. but there is the confession already on video for what he is accused of tonight. >> yeah, there it is. this is a pattern for him not just in the way he talks about women, but the way he talks about almost everyone. i know you have been very observant about this. probably the other women on this panel have been observant. he exploits whoever he can when he can. he thinks less of people who are not as powerful as him. that means women, minorities, people who are disabled. he manipulates and controls whoever he can. and he thinks he can get away with it. i think the stern stuff is just another sign of him thinking he get away with it. he was so open with stern because he thought it didn't matter. he thought his power and his celebrity and his money would
allow him to say whatever he wanted. >> go ahead, maria. >> he also -- and it's not just women and minorities and people of color. it's also small businessmen. >> right. >> anybody he feels that he can trample with and basically get away with it. there was a piece where a man who sold him $100,000 worth of pianos and came back and said sorry, i'm just going to give you 70,000. the idea that he is above the law. he understands tax code enough to write these things off is really -- it's not only unappealing. wait a second, you have learned how to play the system so well that you feel you don't have to be accountable to anybody. i think that this 18-month cathartic exercise we've been doing with donald trump is actually very good. because we actually now can have conversations on when people talk about white male privilege, he is the epitome of that. nobody else would be able to get away with what he is doing. >> hillary clinton is taking the stage in las vegas. we will go to her as she gets into that speech. but i just want the make the
point, nancy, that donald trump has always thought this is funny. that's what you see on the tape with billy bush. it's funny. he thought it was funny with howard stern. >> and it's not funny. to echo what ana marie just said, not only it is not funny, but it's rude. it's disgusting. and he has gotten away with it. that's the thing. he continues to get away with it. so i think it encourages him to exhibit the same behavior as he gets way with it again and again and again. and it is not locker room talk. as if even if it was just talk, it wasn't a painful, horrible thing to lobby at someone. but locker rooms across the country have said nah-ah, we don't talk about that. >> i was in a lot of sports. i have never heard anybody, and i know a bunch of crude guys. and i have never heard anybody brag about sexual assault, ever, nothing like what that guy was talking about on that bus.
and the -- rush limbaugh today discovered that the problem -- and he really did discover this today. he said the problem is consent. ana marie, he said the only thing liberals care about in terms of sexual behavior is consent, that liberals are okay with everything else, as long as it's consenting adults. and rush limbaugh didn't realize that yes, that is correct that is precisely the position. as rush is thinking there are all these other things that should be condemned like homosexuality and all these other things, the only things they seem to care about is sent. >> and he was offended. i. >> i think and there is a silver lining here. i remember i actually heard rush
limbaugh say that live. i happened to be somewhere where he was on. he did say this in this astonished voice. another person could read that same statement much as you did and it's a statement. whereas he was shocked by it. >> it's really stunning. nancy giles, maria teresa kumar and ana marie cox, thank you all for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> we're going to continue monitor hillary clinton at that speech in las vegas, and continue with more of our guests joining us. i think he is a very dangerous man for the next three or four weeks. those interest words of the reporter who has been covering donald trump longer than anyone else. wayne barrett was the first reporter to take on the myth of donald trump in "the village voice" way back in the 1970s. donald trump tried to stop wayne barrett every way he could think of, including trying to bribe him and threaten him. but wayne barrett stayed on the trump beat and paved the way for so much of the investigative journalism that has been done on
donald trump since then. we're joined now exclusively by wayne barrett, the author of "trump: the greatest show on earth, the deals, the down fall, the reinvention." also joining us david corn and msnbc political analyst. wayne, i've been wanting to talk to you about this for a long time. and just the simple question. as donald trump said or done anything in the last year of this campaign that has surprised you? >> grabbing the pussy surprised me. even those words come out of his mouth. and i was a little stunned by that, lawrence. it's great to be here with you. certainly the stories of today do not surprise me. this ability to roam the earth looking for someone to grab is not surprising at all, but saying i grabbed them by the pussy, that surprised me.
>> and wayne, you knew him and were covering him before his big rise to fame, and certainly before he had his own tv show. do you sense that giving donald trump his own tv show, that was a kind of heroin for him, that it took all of his worst traits and amplified them? >> yes. i think his worst trait obviously he objectifies women. but what he really has done is objectify himself. that's why he talks about himself like trump. trump did this, trump did that. the process of objectifying yourself is totally connected to the camera. because that's his -- that's his lifeline. and i really think that one of the reasons he tweets at 3:00 a.m. is because there is no camera around to talk to. so the camera has become -- the camera has become his lifeline.
and he has turned himself into an object, which is basically the great story of his life. d it's -- it's as if he is so disconnected from human emotion other than anger, he is so disconnected from human any form, including the children. i mean "art of the deal" he mentions them once in his first memoir. tony schwartz who wrote it said they were never around and he never talked about them and never interacted with them. of course they didn't live with them. ivanka was 8 when they moved out. and yet he gets great credit for raising these kids. but they haven't been close to until they could make money in his company. and so i think that the disconnect between him and the
life most of us live is really profound and deep. >> and i want to bring david corn in for a second. david, i just wanted to read a report from bloomberg today that says bannon, steve bannon told trump staffers according to advisers who are present, this has nothing to do with consensual sexual affairs and infidelity. this is bill clinton. we're going turn bill clinton into bill cosby, meaning that's why they're not using any of the women who were allegedly involved in consensual affairs with bill clinton. they are simply using the ones who say that bill clinton behaved with them the way donald trump admits to behaving on that "access hollywood" video. >> you know, i was talking to some trump people over the weekend before the new allegations emerged. and we were just talking about the video. and they said trump has only one play, to go nuclear.
and the interesting thing to me is the only nuclear play that they saw was attacking bill clinton for behavior from 20, 30, 40 years ago that had been reported, litigated, that, you know, only marginally is connected to anything you can say about hillary clinton when you had to know, this is not a surprise that donald trump was as vulnerable or somewhat is vulnerable on this front. even before these women came out. there have been already cases that had been published in the guardian, the "new york times" and elsewhere where these allegations against donald trump. and i think wayne makes a great point about trump objectifying himself. trump is a commodity. he is a brand. he is not a human being in a lot of ways it seems. and that's how he has been selling himself. and he seems oblivious to anything that goes on in the world outside of his own concern with his own brand, his own
commoditification. and therefore i could easily see him running to wage the very type of attack that he would be vulnerable. to one last point. i wrote a story a couple of months ago that he -- that people around him in the start of his campaign wanted to have a vetting of him. have opposition research conducted on trump, which is kind of common for most national campaigns. he said no. now we know why. >> wayne, i have to say, you know -- sorry. we're going go live to hillary clinton now, her speech. >> well, he has doubled down. he doubled down on his excuse that it's just locker room talk, and i got to tell you, after he said that in the last debate, the most amazing thing happened. athletes and coaches started speaking out. from the nba, from major league
baseball, from the nfl. they're coming forward and saying hey, not in our locker rooms. that's not what happens. but he is not just insulted women. he is an equal opportunity insulter. he has insulted everybody. he insulted a distinguished federal judge who was born in indiana, and he said well, he couldn't be trusted to be a judge because his parents came from mexico. he has targeted immigrants, african americans, latinos, people with disabilities. he has targeted p.o.w.s and muslims. he has also targeted our military. he has called our military a disaster. now how can you be the commander in chief if you don't respect the men and women who serve in the united states military? i think he has shown us who he is.
now the question for all of us is who we are, right? what are we going to do to show -- >> i want to go back to wayne barrett as hillary clinton continues her speech there in las vegas. wayne, a point i wanted to make is i had consistently predicted that donald trump would not run for president. and i was right every time, except the last time. and the reason i was saying that is that i had been reading your reporting of back i guess when i just got out of high school. and all the reporting about donald trump in the meantime. and i saw what was there. and just your reporting alone is an opposition file unlike we've ever seen on a presidential candidate. and i just -- i know donald trump knows that it's out there. i just couldn't imagine him leaping into this. were you surprised that he decided to run for president finally? >> yes, i was. but keep in mind even when this video emerged, part of the trump defense has been well, he wasn't
running for president. >> yeah, yeah. >> and so he said and did reckless things. in fact, he ran for president for four months in 2000. roger stone ran that campaign. he tried to get the reform party line. he pulled out. and as i wrote in the book in 1988, he was flirting with it. he referred to marla as his southern strategy. he didn't think ivana would be presentable in a national campaign. and he thought that marla maples could help him carry the south. patiently he doesn't need marla to carry the south now. race will do it for him. but he has been talking about this, thinking about this. roger stone, who has been with him for 30 some years the night he was nominated, posted that this was a celebration of over 30 years of work together. and so they've been thinking
about this. and yet he would still behave while he was considering being a presidential candidate most of his adult life, he would still behave in this totally reckless way. >> wayne barrett, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. really appreciate your perspective on donald trump. and david corn, thank you for joining us also. >> sure. >> really appreciate it. we're going to stay monitoring hillary clinton's speech. i think we're going to squeeze in a break here. and we'll be right back. ces in y life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthmcontrol medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rese inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo opens up airways to help improve breathing for a full 24 hours. breo contains a type of medicine that increases the risk of death from asthma problems and may increase the risk of hospitalization in children and adolescents. breo is not for people whose
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we're continuing to monitor hillary clinton's speech in las vegas. these are her first public remarks since the new allegations have come up tonight against donald trump. the behavior that donald trump admitted to on the "access hollywood" video that appeared on friday is tonight being corroborated by several home with have come forward today to say that he did indeed touch them and kiss them without their consent. let's take a look at what donald trump admitted to in that "access hollywood" video. >> use tic tacs in case i start kissing her. i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. i just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. you just kiss. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. do anything.
>> joining us now, michael steele, former chairman of the republican national committee and an msnbc analyst. also with us tim miller, a member of the never trump movement and a former communications director for jeb bush's 2016 campaign. gentlemen, i'd like to listen to what is now a more relevant tape than it was even yesterday. and that is we're going to hear donald trump with howard stern admitting that he does indeed when he owned those beauty pageants and the teenaged beauty pageants, he would indeed walk in deliberately on the girls when he knew they were undressed. let's listen to this. >> well, i'll tell you the funniest is that i'll go backstage before a show and everyone is getting dressed and ready and everywhere else. and you know, no men are anywhere. i'm allowed to go because i'm the own over the pageant. i'm inspecting it. is everyone okay? they're standing there with no clothes. is everybody okay? and you see these incredible
looking women. and so i sort of get away with things like that. >> michael steele, it's only october 12th. >> yeah. >> which means we don't yet know what the october 13th surprises are or the 14th or the 15th. >> yeah. no, there is clearly a lot more to come. there as you noted earlier, lawrence, a long history here that has been reported on. and now in light of these new accusations as well as what we got from last friday, i think this funnel opens up. and it's a huge, huge problem for the party. it is a huge problem for the campaign. there is no walking around this gingerly. there is no putting a good face on it. this has been dealt with, confronted directly. and i don't know how this party or the campaign does that. >> i just want to play something john boehner said earlier this evening where he basically was
on fox news saying he didn't see how this could get worse. let's listen to this. >> what more could be said? in this election cycle than has already been said? >> so you seem to think that we kind of already know what donald trump is all about, and that nothing further could come out that would make any difference? >> it can't be any worse, could it? >> well, that's a good question. what do you think? >> i don't think so. >> and tim miller, that was minutes before "the new york times" posted this story tonight of these two women coming forward saying yes, he did to us what he says he did on that "access hollywood" video. >> i love speaker boehner, but this line of thinking was way, way too common within the party. and donald trump told us all we needed to know last year. the very first question of the very first debate was megyn kelly to donald trump going through all of the nasty,
demeaning, harsh, cruel comments he had said about women over the course of his life. and obviously worse and lower comments have come to light since then. but we knew that. and a lot of washington leaders, including speaker boehner unfortunately said oh, ted cruz is the devil. he can't be that much worse than ted cruz. now we're stuck with this guy. and it's a major, major problem for our party. and it's going to be something we have to rebuild from for years to come. >> gentlemen, if you can bear with me, we want to try to fix our break structure here. so we're going work in a quick break here. we went quite a distance without a commercial earlier. a quick break here. we're going to continue to monitor hillary clinton's speech in las vegas. we will come back to that if she responds to in any way to the news about donald trump tonight. we'll be back with michael steele and a tim miller after this break. mom,
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tonight, this time from "people" magazine. "people" magazine has a report on a december 2005 incident involving a "people" magazine writer natasha stoinoff. she is driving what it was like for her when she was working on a story in 2005 that brought her to mar el lago and donald trump. there came a moment where she found herself alone in a room with donald trump. "people" magazine carries this account from natasha stoinoff breaking what happened. she said we walked into that room alone and trump shut the front door behind us. i turned around and within seconds he was pushing me against the wall and forcing his tongue down my throat. i was stunned and i was grateful when trump's long-time butler burst into the room a minute
later as i tried to unpin myself. the butler informed us that melania would be down momentarily. and it was time to resume the interview. we're back now with maria teresa kumar who has rejoinedteresa, w the october 12th surprises continue almost by the minute. here is "people" magazine, obviously this has been a legally vetted, carefully legally vetted report. they would not publish it without that. reporting that this reporter alone with donald trump at mar el lago with melania his wife upstairs, and donald trump shut the door behind us. i turned around, and within seconds he was pushing me against the wall and forcing his tongue down my throat. that is precisely what he said
to billy bush was his modus operandi. >> it's what he tried to do with the woman on the airplane and the receptionist. this is clearly a pattern. but your just reading that statement, lawrence was gut-wrenching. i can't imagine any viewer right now not even in tears or feeling uncomfortable. he is taking us to a very dark place. and the fact that these women are sharing their bravery with us of sexual assault, i have to applaud them. because it's something that cannot be easy. and it's finally giving voice to so many people out there that feel that they have been alone for so long. and i feel that this is we're on october 12. but not only is this a pattern, but i can expect more. and hopefully things that are not more ruthless on his ability to prey on women. >> and i just want to read another passage in this. it's a long report. i just want to stress, this is
"people" magazine. that means this has been vetted by very high powered corporate lawyers who know exactly where the libel laws protect them and where they don't. they are lawyers completely unwilling to take the slightest risk with this kind of report. she says that an hour later, i was back at my hotel. my shock began to wear off and was replaced by anger. i kept thinking why didn't i slug him? >> ana marie was saying the same things. when women get into places where they're vulnerable, you end up feeling that you did something wrong. and that is precisely what a predator wants you to do. that's about what someone that basically practices sexual assault wants you to do. but again, i cannot put my arms around any republican that can possibly stand by his side. this is not leadership if they continue feeding this monster
and saying he is okay and fit to be president. the fact that he preys on the most vulnerable, that he encounters, you can only imagine what he would do not only to the rest of the country, but now the world. there was -- j.r.rowling said a tweety she did want his hand on the nuclear weapons and someone said but you're not an american. >> but i'm the world. a country which is incredibly diverse, which thrives on entrepreneurship and thought and differences. >> a loug someone who has clearly shown his stripes to us from the very beginning to come in and try to basically distort and destroy our balance of power. he has been a ruthless going more recently as you mentioned earlier, threatening "the new york times" for suing him on a story that is clearly increasingly validated, being a predator towards women. the fact that he went after a
federal judge saying that once he is in office, he would basically strip him from his judgeship, and going after hillary clinton saying if he wins that she is basically going to be put in prison for a political opponent. this is not america. this is much more closely tactics that you see in russia. and something of a dictator such as putin that many folks in russia would agree than something that is done by a person running a country that has checks and balances, that has a judicial branch, that has a congressional branch, and that has the oval office. >> and anna ma marie, there is here about this reporter's reaction to this natasha stoinov is her name. and i just wanted to read some of it. it's too difficult to read some of it. she said why didn't i slug him. why couldn't i say anything? the next morning anger became fear. i had been up all night worrying about this.
and ana marie cox, the pain that's being expressed in the aftermath of these incidents is so deep. and it's hard to read. oh, we don't have ana marie cox. nancy giles here with news the studio. this is the part where you've seen me trying to read this. it isn't easy. >> it's awful, it's awful. as woman who has grown up in new york and has lived through kind of rude things that guys can sometimes say in the street, construction workers, being on a packed subway and feeling somebody pressing up against you, they're bad enough. what these women are describing is just god awful. and, you know, i can only repeat and agree with what the other two women on the panel have said. it almost doesn't seem like america. you wonder how somebody that started his campaign with such horrible things said about mexicans and the accusations, the claims that all black people are dodging bullets and living
in hell and taking a judge, with his own ego and his own remarks kind of coming back to choke him, it's almost shakespearean because his ego in the end and his need to be on tv and on the radio and throughout and publicized, and a big important person, those are the exact words that are going to come back. and actions i think will haunt him. >> we're to be take a break. we're waiting for donald trump's threat to sue "people" magazine over this report. he has already threatened to sue "the new york times." "the times" article, the "people" article, those articles are vetted by the very best lawyers that exist in this country. the likelihood of there being an opening for a libel suit against either one of these articles is very unlikely. we'll be right back.
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statement from an unnamed spokesperson of the trump campaign saying, quote, this never happened. there is no merit or veracity to this fictional story. why wasn't this reported at the time? mr. trump was the biggest star on television, and surely this would have been a far bigger scoop for "people" magazine. she alleges this took place in a public space with people around. this is nothing but politically motivated pile-on fiction. of course there is a lie in the trump statement. she does not say it took place in a public place. she specifically describes the door being closed. and no spokesperson at the trump campaign has any authoritative capacity to say, nancy giles, this never happened. >> how do you know? you weren't there. you know what i think has really brought it out is there he was at the debate, asked specifically about this. and at the debate, with millions of people watching on
television, he said he never did it. and i think for anyone who was in a situation where he did grab or grope or anything like that, it must have been like a slap in the face. like the whole thing being experienced again. and i think that's why you're going to have more and more people coming out saying this happened to me. >> tim miller still with us, republican campaign professional. tim, is there anything they won't do for money over there at trump tower? is there anyone on that payroll of the trump campaign that when they read a story like this refuses to say this never happened? is there anyone there who knows none of them have the moral authority to make that statement? >> no. look, with the exception of one or two people, all these folks were hired after the convention this summer. kellyanne conway is the third campaign manager. she saw all of the op about donald trump over the last year. she saw all the nasty comments he made about women. she saw all the nasty comments he made about the disableded and hispanics and veterans.
all of these people are completely, you know, in league with him and enabling him. so now they're going to have to spend the next 27 days either in hiding or continuing to put out statements like the one that you just read that lies and defends him. i don't understand what they get out of it at this point. >> michael steele, i guess there is just a template over there for this never happened press release to put out for whatever the next accusation is that comes out. >> well, yeah. they're kind of used to it by now. kind of roll it off the desk and put it out there. you know, that statement i suspect probably came probably from trump himself to say it, even though it was anonymously given. that's how they can say that. but the fact of the matter is this is just the beginning of the floodgates. you put it i think very aptly, lawrence. you know, what is tomorrow, the 13th going to offer us?
what is going to be the surprise on the 14th? this is not a good space for anybody in the country. it's particularly the party in this campaign. someone is going to have to put an end to it. and the only person who can do that is donald trump. >> and david corn, any other women out there who had been thinking about maybe telling their stories when they see other women coming out, that can only be possibly an encouragement or possibly give them the sensation that, well, at least they're not alone if they do tell this story? >> every reporter who has worked on the trump beat the last year has gotten tips and leads about women and this sort of treatment. it's not a secret. and as we've seen in the bill cosby case, the once people start coming forward, there tends to be more, not less of that. but i got to say for all those republicans out there, anybody who may be surprised, this guy for years has shown his
misogynistic, racist, bullying, bigoted side. so a person like that engaging in this sort of behavior really comes as nothing other than in keeping with everything we know about him for years. and so all those conservatives who are still on the trump train and the people in congress, you guys knew. you gals knew. and there is absolutely no excuse. i salute people like tim miller. i disagree with him on almost everything else for knowing that character counts and you can see what type of guy trump was from a mile away. >> maria teresa, let me get a quick last word from you on this. >> i think it's exactly what david corn is saying. how can we as americans actually stand by and allow this person basically a free pass? every single woman that is coming out, if you notice, it's the exact same pattern. and my hope is that those women keep coming out and that they're brave and they keep having these conversations. but also we recently did a -- posted something on voto latino
revealing anything privileged tomorrow or wednesday. and then spicer was deflecting on russia's role by arguing that maybe election interference is more of an issue for hillary clinton than vladimir putin. >> why aren't we talking about the influence -- other influences on the election? why aren't we talking about hillary clinton getting debate questions ahead of time? that's a valid attempt to influence an election. >> spicer is citing an e-mail there that showed a democratic operative on cnn appear to share debate questions in advance with clinton, an e-mail revealed by the underlying russian hack. now trump's aides would apparently prefer to take shots at hillary clinton than address the foreign policy dilemmas they're facing right now. it's easy to see why. it's pretty easy to blame your competitor for everything. that is, of course, what 2016 was a about. but 2016s over. this is 2017. it's not a test. it's about to get much more difficult for donald trump. joining me now former cia
operations officer and a 2016 independent presidential candidate, evan mcmullen. what do you think of what we're seeing here and this bizarre inability to deal with what might be negative information about srussia separate from wha you do about it by the trump administration incoming? >> well, i think we have to ask ourselves, the entire country, why is donald trump and his team working so hard to protect russia in the situation? it's clear russia worked to undermine our democracy, to influence our election. the intel community came out unanimously in october and said this is what russia is doing. but you don't need to be an intelligence officer to know that. russia is doing the same thing here in our country it's done in europe and is still doing in europe and germany, for example. that is funding groups like white supremacist groups, white nationalist groups, using internet trolls that they employ in russia, supporting their
skeptical that's true. i think it's not true. >> you have a nice way of saying he's full of bs. what do you think your former colleagues in the intelligence agencies are thinking when donald trump seems to use every time this issue arises to sort of get into their biggest embarrassment on iraq and sort of cast doubt about the entire integrity or the competence of the entire operation. >> of course they're unhappy about that, but i think that speaks to a much deeper source of tension between the intelligence community and donald trump. that is that donald trump wants to align our country, his administration, with the very country that is attacking our democracy, the intelligence community and the national security community in general warned against him, warned against this policy approach during the election, and that's not going to change. there's a very deep source of tension there. but donald trump continues to
it. and so he denies it, says we should move on. and ultimately he says because there's no other way i've got information that you don't have. but i'm not going to tell you for a few days. so what happens? then we in the media talk about it for a few days, repeating his claim to know things that no one else does, half of america believes it. half of us don't. but to his audience, they believe it. and we've carried that message in the media. so he has won, a on playing us by doing this. we have to call him out when he knows what other people don't know allegedly, we have to ask where did that information come from. >> you said half of america, we have to fact check that, i believe 46%. evan mcmullin, thank you for joining us. up next former u.s. ambassador to russia. first, mr. ambassador, your response to what i was just discussing with evan and your view of where intelligence and
diplomacy meet here. >> well, intelligence is a major part of diplomacy, a major part of our developing a foreign policy. in a few weeks president trump is going to be working with these very people that he's saying very distrustful things about. i want to remind your viewers that the vast majority of the people that work in the intelligence community are not political appointees. they're professionals that will be there january 20th working for president trump. >> mr. ambassador, when we look at the sanctions that are currently being deployed against russia, when trump comes in, do they just continue automatically? what does it take for him to change them? >> yes, they do continue. it will be incumbent on him to be proactive to change them. if he chooses to do so. and in doing so i think he'll have to explain to the american people and to his own a
administration -- i want to keep emphasizing that -- these people will be working for him come january 20th, why he is reversing it. maybe there will be an argument. i look forward to the new intelligence he allegedly has. maybe there's some reason for it but right now i think that would be a very difficult thing for him to do without explaining his actions. >> you mentioned the intelligence he claims to have. what would he have? either he has something that is from the intelligence community and we spend about $17 billion a year trying to get the best possible, or he has it from some other nonpublic source, would that be a russian source, or what other source would there be for special intel that is not within the cache of what they already have within our 17 agencies? >> you know, to be honest, i have no idea. i hear that. it disappoints me. i wish he would spend a little more time learning about our intelligence and learning -- do
a deep dive in counter espionage and maybe understand these things better. maybe he has some source from somebody who provided wikileaks with the data. that's a conspiracy floating out there on twitter and facebook, but i guess we'll just have to wait until tuesday to find out. >> what do you think about his wider habit here of saying we don't know, quote/unquote, things we as a government or a country do know? why is that so important to him and does it remind you of anything you've seen abroad in the way some leaders sometimes seem to prefer the conspiracy theories of the street to what's actually knowable? >> well, he's denying it because he worries it affects the legitimacy of his election. of course if more people believed that the russians influenced our election, that would delegitimate his electoral
victory. he's been elected. the electoral college has spoken. everybody is preparing for him to be sworn in. i think it actually would help him to put this behind us if he acknowledged the facts. i think we need a bipartisan independent commission so we get all the facts and all the facts, by the way, of how the obama administration handled this intelligence challenge during the election. and so that it could be wrapped up. everybody knows the facts. and then we get on with doing the things we need to do to prepare for the next election cycle. the russians have tremendous capability. it will be better in 2020. other actors will have capabilities in 2020. not pretending we weren't attacked. >> right. the other big nuclear story here is north korea as an aspirational power. here is what donald trump wrote on twitter. north korea just stated it's in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the u.s.
it won't happen! end quote. how does that declare tiff statement compare to the actual bipartisan process over two administrations to have some kind of constraint of their ambition? >> i work here at stanford with george schultz, the former secretary of state for ronald reagan, and he always talks about never make a threat unless you're ready to deliver on it. and what troubles me about that tweet is he's now made a declaratory statement about policy. i don't know if he's done the homework to know he could implement the threat he's just put out. >> wow. well put and thank you for your time, a.m. bmbassador michael m. as always, appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. still ahead, donald trump it continuing to conduct business as usual. his private resort selling hundreds of thousands of dollars in tickets this weekend. that was for the new year's eve party with the president-elect. we'll explain what's wrong with that after the break. grid every day.
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throughout the bush years vice president dick cheney was repeatedly accused of conflicts of interest over halliburton oil which got lucrative contracts in iraq. imagine if cheney had not stepped down from his job as hal burton ceo before taking office. it would have been technically legal. they are not formally required to commit a day job. that has many people literally long i longing for dick cheney's method. donald trump is not even stepping back from business activities that would literally be really easy to skip. take a look at this weekend, for example, when trump headlined the new year's eve party at his
mar-a-lago resort. this is not just his raycation home. this is a business. it charges $100,000 for annual membership fees -- excuse me, a one-time membership and another $14,000 in annual dues. hard to keep track of because it's so expensive. some of the value comes from selling tickets to the big events like new year's eve festivities. tickets for the mar-a-lago party started at $500. a spokesman told reporters the event was sold out, 800 attendees. those tickets alone would land somewhere north of $400,000 in revenue for mar-a-lago. there is something abnormal here many people want to normalize. that $400,000 trump banked in one night is the amount the
president earns in a year. it's not chump change. it's real money. as trump tweets and tries to distract his way through this transition, it's the money he's making in this basic situation, m mixing his roles as president-elect and as head of a private company, at the very least he risks the appearance of mixing government work meant to be in the public interest with his family business. now according to reports attendees at the new year's eve party included quincy jones, actor sylvester stallone, and fabio. who needs no introduction. did any foreign government officials buy their way into the party or any lobbyists? we just don't know because this was a private event on private property. the most secret event the president can even attend. if the money were going to the rnc instead of the trump organization, every attendee's name would be public under federal law. if this were even a white house reception it would be public under federal law. we do know trump's business partner from dubai attended the
party. cell phone video showed trump giving him a shoutout during his speech and a spokesman for the transition said they had no formal meetings or professional discussions. their interactions were social. that may be true. there may have been only one business partner in attendance. or it may not be true. as long as donald trump keeps spending time generating revenue for his companies, he will continue raising questions and conflicts that could cast a cloud over his presidency and, more importantly, over the independence of his administration. for more, i'm joined by the chief investigative reporter for politico who has been on the story, ken vogel. ken, the money here. why does it matter if the president-elect is at this event generating this revenue? >> well, it certainly creates the appearance, ari, that what he is doing is essentially selling access to himself. sure, this club mar-a-lago has
had these types of events before at major holidays, on new year's, on christmas, on thanksgiving. what it hasn't had is a featured guest who, by the way, is the president-elect of the united states of america. so the way that they explain this is just business as usual. this is the way mar-a-lago conducts business. and forget about the money that trump receives from this. and would have received whether he was president-elect or not. the specter he is essentially allowing anyone who has the money to either buy a member ship or the access to someone who has a membership who can pay for a ticket to something like this creates the appearance of forget about the possible business partners who were in there or the celebrities. it's the people who want to get access to trump . it's an amazing deal for any potential business person. or a person who wants to do business with the united states government, special interests, lobbyists. you could just imagine going
down t lhe line for those this would be an amazing deal. >> look at the contrast here. he ran a campaign saying because he has money and a business he won't be beholden to these interests. that was a big selling point for him. a lot of people believed it, naively or not. he will fundraise less. and there's a truth to that. but that truth seems to be dwarfed by what was on display this weekend which is the business actually makes him more beholden than campaign money and, as we've been saying, is less traceable, less transparent. >> and it's also much trick iie for him to extricate himself or there to be transparency around. let's say given the benefit of the doubt and saying he goes to the extreme end of divestiture, he's still going to vacation at mar-a-lago, even if he has mar-a-lago in a blind trust or he doesn't really know whether his businesses or portfolio includes mar-a-lago he knows someone is paying money to this entity that is so closely associated with him that may or
may not be in his portfolio, that may or may not be in the blind trust that his kids may or may not oversee and here they are sitting on the couch or the patio with the president of the united states. it's a complicated situation. can't easily extricate himself from it. >> let's stipulate that's what people who care about good governance, ethics reformers, journalists and people who think about these issues, that's what they're concerned about. let's put that to the side then and then look at the actual trump team's response. what are we learning about where they're at? this is a guy who said he was going to hold a big announcement to clean this up. things were going to change. the kids would be in charge. said all this stuff. when you looked at his actions, not the announcements, the announcements he never game, hey, what's the matter? this is just business as usual. does that tell you there's something wrong if they think business as usual is okay when he's the president-elect? >> i mean, it's a little bit of a sign of where their head is at
as they try to grapple with this incredibly complicated situation where they try to put to rest these concerns about conflicts of interest and try to find a sustainable system going forward for separating himself from his business. in a way i cannot for the life of me figure out how it can be done in a way that will satisfy sort of the good government concerns that i think are validly being raised in this and other situations. >> and complexity has become a little bit of a dodge for them. there are parts that are complex, in other words you can't just legally force someone into having a fire sale, right, and potentially costing them a lot of money. that's not typically how a disillusion would work. that is actually complex. what's not complex is making the decision to not sell yourself for $500 access and tickets. that's not complex. that's simple. if you want ed ed to skip the p, you could skip the party. if you wanted to donate the funds that new year's to charity you could donate the funds. there's a million simple ways to
do that. they chose none of those and counterattacked and told people, hey, don't be mad. it's business as usual. that's my final thought. ken vogel, i appreciate you giving us yours. >> it's not just the excuse that this is the way it's always been done. they went further in our story where we reveal the tickets were sold for members. >> ken, thank you very much for your time and happy to hear your last thought while we look at the eagle. no better image. coming up, we showed you the clip, and maybe you noticed guy holding the eagle statue. if you're wondering what it's about we have the answer. anything meant to stand needs a stable foundation.
we're going to get rid of obamacare. >> that footage of president-elect donald trump's new year's eve party at mar-a-lago, who was the enthusiastic person to his right and what is the deal with that eagle statue being held by another gentleman to trump 's left and don't they have something they could put this thing on so that poor guy doesn't have to just cradle it the whole time? when someone is giving a stump speech, you don't know how long. courtesy after facebook post from hospitality sciences is, the man at the right is joseph, the president of the american academy of hospitality sciences and the eagle is bronze, a bronze eagle awarded by the academy. and there is more. trump has been honored before by this same academy and its president. he was the presumptive republican nominee and the hospitality academy gave an
award to trump's scottish golf course as the best golf course worldwide. which prompted this yahoo! news headline. quote, how a convicted felon nicknamed joey no socks covered him in stars. the article explained trump has received many similar awards from that same man including five and six-star ratings from trump properties. the organization is run by joseph cinque, a long time trump aquantance who goes by the nickname joey no socks and has a conviction for stolen property. perhaps this eagle was far more cooperative than this eagle, you may remember, from that "time" magazine shoot in 2015. it's a live eagle. what do you expect? look at him go. america. up next, david kay johnson is here on the president-elect and his evolving relationship with corporate welfare. know how to ct anything. even a rodent ride-along.
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sprint was bringing back to the u.s. are new. they are not. they are part of a holistic deal announced by soft bank. american corporations are now facing pressure to go along with donald trump's jobs claims. "the new york times" slamming it in an editorial, why corporations are helping donald trump lie about jobs. the piece explains why it's so messy for the government through president-elect trump in this manner. quote, it's easy to see were soft bank and sprint might want to help mr. trump take credit for creating jobs. soft bank's chief executive wants the department of justices antitrust and the federal communications commission to allow a merger between sprint and t-mobile. mr. son see as deal between himself and trump with people who sided with large communications companies and regulatory debates and argued against tough antitrust enforcement. "the times" explains why this
should be croney capitalism with devastating consequences. pull iitzer prize winning journi have had david cay johnson. i'd like to start by just walking through how this works. it appears that donald trump will have some private communication with a company and then he will take the lead and the announcement separately, whether that's to the public or to shareholders would be some formal business announcement. explain how it works. >> this is a con job. plain and simple, ari, this is a con job and the numbers we're talking about are inconsequential. in the terms of sprint, the wealthiest man in japan has had a plan in place for some time and he is going to want something from donald trump.
he tried to merge sprint with t-mobile and the justice department said no for antitrust reasons. you can agree or disagree with that but he wants to do that and other actions in the future. he's buttering up donald trump. another variation we're seeing with people manipulating trump as we've seen with vladimir putin. if you're the ceo of a big company you're going to do everything you can to let donald trump take credit because you don't want him to use his enormous powers. you essentially have a duty to kiss the president's ring. >> when you say fiduciary duty you are referring to the legal obligation these corporate executives have to maximize profits to shareholders. >> their legal duty is to the company but to the shareholders. they're not going to do anything
to put in jeopardy their position, the company's position, and donald trump is in a position to extract from these people things that may or may not be good judgment. ari, i'm old enough to remember when republicans thought business should make its own governments. wait a minute, that was six months ago. >> you used the word extraction. at a certain point the outlines of what you're describing sound like a shakedown but instead of getting something very valuable for the country it's pr valuable for donald trump. >> absolutely. these are in donald trumpian terms small potatoes. we're about to get the announcement on jobs. it will probably show 82 consecutive months of jobs growth, the old record was 52. we're close to 16 million private sector jobs under this
administration. very few americans know that but everybody has heard about the 730 jobs that trump inflated to 1,1000 hiohio and very few peop know that was a deal that violated trump's own position in the campaign when he said corporate welfare, interest-free loans and other tax favors didn't create jobs, now he's the champion of them. donald is an absolute corporate chameleon and whatever makes trump look good no matter what it costs companies, companies better line up and pay attention. >> corporate camillians. say that ten times fast. david cay hnston, thank you for joining us. who are they targeting coming up. and tonight's thing 1 and thing 2 starts right after this break. ,
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thing 1 tonight. 36 years ago in tempe, arizona, bruce springsteen made what are believed to be his first publicly recorded comments about politics. now it was november 5th, 1980. in other words, one day after ronald reagan was elected president. >> i don't know what you think about happened last night, but i think it's pretty frightening. there will be a lot of people depending on you coming up. >> now decades later springsteen would become an advocate for president obama campaigning both in 2008 and 2012, and he campaigned for hillary clinton this year. but if he was frightened by reagan's election all the way back in 1980, how is the boss feeling about donald trump's victory? those brand-new comments thing 2 in 60 seconds.
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can look back on 2016 and say we stood with hillary clinton on the right side of history. that's why i'm standing here with you tonight for the dream of a better america. >> that was bruce springsteen campaigning for hillary clinton on the eve of the election. in a new interview for the wtf podcast with comedian mark marin out today springsteen spoke candidly about why trump and this new era scares him. >> are you scared now? >> yeah. yeah. of course. how could you not be. >> right. have you felt this fear before? >> no. >> right. >> i've felt disgust before. >> right. >> but never the kind of fear that you feel now. >> right. >> it's as sim am as the fear of is someone xe it tent enough to do this particular job. >> right. >> forget about where they are ideologically. >> right. >> do they have the pure competence to be put in a
position of such responsibility. >> and what's your biggest fear of it as we enter it? >> i suppose would be that a lot of the worst things and the worst aspects of what he appealed to comes to fruition. when you let that genie out of the bottle -- bigotry, racism -- when you let those things out of the bottle -- >> intolerance. >> intolerance. they don't go back in the bottle that easily, if they go back in at all. >> right. >> whether it's a rise in hate crimes, people feeling they have license to speak and behave in ways that previously were considered un-american and are un-american. that's what he's appealing to. kellogg's special k...
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it's no secret donald trump didn't get along that well with paul ryan or mitch mcconnell back during the election. a new report from "the new york post" has some fresh ideas into just how deep that divide could remain. "the post" reporting president-elect trump told senate minority leader chuck schumer he actually likes him, a democrat, more than mcconnell and ryan because the two republican leaders, quote, wanted him to lose. "the post" cites a source close to them for the quote. democrats don't dispute the quote. schumer and trump are both born and raised new yorkers. trump's even donated to schumer's campaign in the past. that's about as far as it goes. "the washington post" report says that senate democrats led by schumer are planning to contest at least eight of trump's nominees and want to stretch their confirmation hearings all the way into march. those eight targeted nominees include exxon ceo rex tillerson for secretary of state as well as senator jeff sessions, trump 's controversial pick for
attorney general. those two battles in early skirmishes already under way. reportedly saying they're outraged tillerson will not release his full tax returns from the last three years as many cabinet nominees do though not always the secretary of state nominee. now democrats on the senate judiciary committee as well as progressive groups are accusing senator sessions of omitting decades worth of his career from the information he did provide pursuant to the confirmation hearings. given the fact republicans control the senate, how much can senate democrats really do to stifle the nominations to the trump cabinet and what does the opposition look like in both houses of congress once trump takes office? i will ask some very special guests about that. boost
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and open up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. now i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. welcome back. earlier in the broadcast we stated that music producer quincy jones attended trump's new year's eve party at mar-a-lago. while donald trump's spokesman, sean icer, said jones would attend, we want to correct the record. jones spent new year's in los angeles. back in capitol hill, a fight brewing over a trump nominee who has been in this position before. >> mr. sessions is a throwback to a shameful era which i know both black and white americans thought was in our past. it's inconceivable to me that a person of this attitude is qualified to be a u.s. attorney let alone a united states
federal judge. he is i belve a disgrace to the justice department and he should withdraw his nomination and resign his position. >> that was the late senator ted kennedy speaking during the 1986 hearing for jeff sessions, this one a nominee for federal judgeship. sessions was ultimately denied that position by the senate judiciary committee, a 10-8 vote. senate democrats are now looking to block up to eight of donald trump's nominees, senator sessions widely considered one of the most controversial. joining me tonight is sarah florez, a spokesperson for jeff session, howard dean, former chair of the dnc, and christina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham. welcome, everyone. christina, the sessions nomination is controversial. it also as a matter of the historical record is unusual because he is the only nominee who has been previously basically passed on by the senate for a different position.
your thoughts on him this time? >> keep in mind, his own colleagues and his own members of his party deemed him to be too racist in reagan's 1980s. and so when you have someone like the late senator ted kennedy essentially saying he's not only an embarrassment to the professional and he should not be elevated to attorney general or to even a judge, the writings of senator sessions are so deplorable, it's not just about black americans in this country. it's about how he feels about the history but also the future of this country. so the fact that donald trump, in the 21st century, in 2016, chose this particular individual to me and to many others, black and white and other, sends a very distinct message about the dog bark, not even a dog whistle, but a dog bark he's trying to send about his racial platform. senator sessions is a horrible
choice for this particular tion, especily as an attorney general who is supposed to uphold some of the most important ideals of the constitution. >> sarah, what is your response and how does the senator address that history from the first confirmation hearing? >> well, i mean, i think it's pretty clear that the lefteist playbook at this point is smear. i didn't hear a lot of facts. 30 years ago, the democrats practiced their playbook they would use against bork. we now have a verb for it, borking someone, that means smearing them without any basis. the person who was a witness for jeff sessions under oath later had to recant his testimony because the conversations he remembered were disprovable later. this idea that ted kennedy somehow in his statement should hold now, ted kennedy worked with jeff sessions, passed
legislation with jeff sessions, so did dick durbin. we'll have had senators, democrats and republicans, who have worked with jeff sessions, 20 years in the senate. democrats are going to do what they're going to do, say what they're always going to say. it didn't work in 2016 for hillary clinton. it's not going to work now. jeff sessions will uphold the rule of law, something our previous attorney generals under this administration have been sorely lacking. by the way, jeff sessions voted to confirm eric holder. >> senator sessions in 30 years made a good choice in upholding eric holder, but this is straight out of the republican playbook. donald trump is pulling out a bunch of has-beens and never-wanever-wa never-wases. we know these people believe in
segregationist tactics. >> where are the facts? excuse me, that is a lie. no facts. >> if we read, we know that this particular individual has gone out of his way, the majority of his career, to make sure that black americans specifically are disenfranchised. >> that's not true. >> sarah, you can respond, then governor dean is waiting for his turn. >> i don't know how to respond when there's no facts there. no, he hasn't. >> governor dean? >> there are some facts there in terms of the quotes that you can actually get that jeff sessions has actually said. i'm more interested in the process here. if manchin has said that he's going to support sessions, then you need four republican -- four -- excuse me, four republican votes against him. and this is -- they've targeted eight, the democrats in the senate have targeted eight people. they're going to have to get at least three republican vote in
this case four. and the way to do that is to target the senators, the republican senators who have to run for reelection in 2018. and you're not going to get all of these eight. so i don't want to make any predictions about which ones you are going to get, but you're going to have to show to a significant number of these senators' constituents there's going to be a penalty for voting for some of the people they want to target. i think they will get one or two but i don't think they'll get all eight of them. senator, what do you think about rex tillerson who seems to be the one where there is so much controversy and questions about russia and he has some links there that the trump folks argue is positive, because he's been a businessman in the region, other folks question his impartiality. >> i know very little about rex tillerson so i don't have a particular comment about whether he should be the secretary of state or not. there will be an incredibly thorough vetting of these vocation, there always is, no
matter which side is doing the vetting. the senate is badly divided, it didn't used to be a body like the house but it is now. i can't predict what's going to happen. somebody is going to find something or they won't find something in rex tillerson's resume that is going to be condemning. if he doesn't give documents like his full tax returns, that's going to be a problem. again, the only way to stop the confirmations of any of these folks is to find a constituency in the state of some senator, some republican senator. >> sarah, i have 20 seconds for each of you. >> nobody watching the show right now thinks the democrats actually will stop these confirmations. this is about delay. this is about playing politics with this. and nobody believes that if hillary clinton had won this election, that the democrats would be trying to delay these confirmations until march. i don't know why, i don't think it will help them in 2018. i think republicans will win more seats. >> if hillary clinton had won, she would nominate people who were legitimate and didn't seek to dismantle the very offices
difference of opinion on immigration legislation that we've put forward. you've had different ideas. i have no doubt that as attorney general, you'll faithfully execute the office. i appreciate the answers that you have given today. unanimous consent to submit a column written by our own attorney general in arizona, mark burnovich for "the hill". >> without objection it will be included. >> supporting your nomination. let me talk to you about an aspect of immigration that's important in arizona. as you know, we have a large border with mexico. we have a program called operation streamline that has over the years been tremendously effective in cutting down recidivism in terms of border crossers. it's intended to reduce border crossing by expeditiously prosecuting those who enter the country illegally over a no
tolerance or zero tolerance policy. it's credited with being instrumental in achieving better border security specifically in the yuma sector along the western side of arizona's border with mexico. nevertheless, in recent years, the u.s. attorney's office for the district of arizona adopted a policy that he wanted prosecutions for those that cross but for, well, without criminal history other than simply crossing the border. i have asked attorney general holder and attorney general lynch as well as secretary johnson at homeland security on what is being done here, and i haven't gotten a straight answer. no matter how many times i ask the question, so i'm looking forward to a little more candor here as attorney general if you are confirmed what steps will you take to restore operation
streamline to a zero tolerance approach that's been so successful in arizona? >> a portion of arizona's border. zoo thank you. senator flank, i have enjoyed working with you, and i know the integrity with which you bring your views on the immigration system. like you, i believe that streamline was very effective, and it was really a surprise that it's been undermined and significantly. the reports i got initially some years ago, maybe a decade or so ago is it was dramatically effective. i would absolutely review that, and my inclination would be at least at this stage is it should be restored and made sure it's lawful and effective, but i think it has great positive potential to improve legality at the border. >> well, thank you. it's been effective at yuma,and
i can tell you there's concern there on the sheriff's office, sheriffs will dumont and others concerned that we're seeing an increase in border crossings simply because of cartels understand very well what -- where there's a zero tolerance policy and where there is not. word spreads. we can quickly get to the -- is there any reason why we haven't expanded this program to the tucson sector if it's been successful elsewhere? >> i don't know what reason that might be. it seems to me that we should examine the successes and see if they can't be replicated throughout the border. >> all right. well, thank you. look forward to working with you on that. >> i appreciate that opportunity to work with you on that because i have long felt it's the right direction for us to go. >> thank you. we have a successful program, then it's difficult to see it
scrapped and to see the progress that's been made in certain parts of the border done away with. let me get to another subject here. victims rights. this is an area of the law that you have shown particularly interest in over your time as a senator. i have with me letters of support for your nomination from various victims groups and advocates. the victims of crime and leniency. victims and friends united op ed by professors paul cassel and steve twist all in support of your nomination. i would ask that these documents be placed for the record. as attorney general, what steps will you take to insure that victims' rights are protected? >> cannot forget victims rights. we have a victim witness legislation that creates within each united states attorney's office a victim witness coordinator and the job of that person is to make sure that concern of the victims are he d
prosecutors and law enforcement officers, but also the bureau of -- you will lead not only department of prosecutors and law enforcement officials, but also the bureau of prisons. you'll be responsible for 190,000 federal inmates currently in custody. this is an often overlooked part of the attorney general's role, but it's important part of the position that you'll be nominated for. i believe one of the highlights in your record in the senate is your leadership in passing the prison rape elimination act of 2003, it or pria, which passed both chambers without objection and was signed into law by george w. bush. this was a bipartisan bill. you worked across the aisle with the late senator kennedy as well as with republican representative frank wolf, democrat representative bobby scott in the house. i have letters of support from anti-prisonrate rape activists that i would also like to be part of the record without objection if i could. >> thank you.
the prison actually do get prosecuted was a real step forward. we do not need to subject prisoners to any more punishment than the law requires. >> thank you. just remaining seconds i have let me say there's another area that we have worked on and hopefully can continue to work on, and that's the area of duplicative doj grants. as you know, department awarded approximately $17 billion in grants over the years brrn oij reports, have all shown there's duplication and waste. sometimes fraud and abuse. we continue to commit to work to root out this kind of duplicative action there. >> well, i know you have had a history of being a staunch defender of the treasury and those that abuse it. i believe it's the same way. it's the taxpayer's money. every dlaer that's extracted from an american sit zblin that
goes into the government needs to get to productive valuable activities. it is a cause of great concern. i will make it a priority of mine to make sure that the dollars we have are actually getting to the purposes they're supposed to go for. it's one thing to say i did a great thing. i got more money for this good purpose, but did it really efficiently and effectively go there. did it really make a positive difference? i think the department of justice can utilize the grant programs to help valuable activities and it needs to guard against improper activities. >> thank you, senator sessions. >> we'll break for about 30 minutes and reconvene at 1:40. senator comens would be next up, and he has indicated he will be here on time. adjourn, recess for now.
>> the senate judiciary committee now in recess. 30 minute lurchl we just heard from the chairman chuck grassley make that announcement. hel hello. i'm wolf blitzer. >> i'm jake tapper. it's 1:00 p.m. here in washington d.c. thank you for joining us. >> it's been a very, very intriguing, important several hours, jake, that we've been listening to jeff sessions, the senator from alabama who has been nominated to become the attorney general of the united states. i want to start off quickly and play this little clip. he announce reasonable doubt that if there were any legal proceedings to go against, the former democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton, he would recuse himself. >> in light of those comments that you made, some have expressed concern about whether you can approach the clinton matter impartially in both fact and appearance. how do you plan to address those concerns? >> i do believe that that could
place my objectivity in question. i have given that thought. i believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary clinton that were raised during the campaign. >> or could be otherwise connected to it. >> this country does not punish its political enemies, but this country insures that no one is bottom of the law. >> very intriguing the way he said that. it was a bold moment. >> he said he would recuse himself. some of the other things that he tried to make clear were that even if he opposed laws that had been passed, he would abide by them. whatever his personal feelings, he thinks that same-sex marriage is the law of the land. president trump has said and talked about how he would protect the rights of lgbt americans going forward. >> roe v. wade he said also is
staging little mock confirmation hearings at the trump transition office. >> we've got an excellent panel here that's going to help us better appreciate what we just heard. associate editor of real clear politics, a.b. stoddard. justice correspondent pamela brown, april ryan, white house correspondent washington bureau chief for american urban radio networks, cnn political comme commentators chuck hyde and simone sanders. pamela brown, you cover the justice department for us. your immediate thoughts? >> first, when it comes to torture, he was asked about waterboarding, which, of course, we heard trump talk about on the trail saying he wanted to bring that back, and sessions did not mince words. he said it's illegal. it is improper. that is the way the congress has voted. that presents an interesting situation there depending on what trump wants to do when he takes the white house and his top law enforcement officer views it that way. we talked about the muslim ban. again, something that trump talked about on the trail. he says that he opposes that, and it's clear that he is taking
i am not naive. i know the threat that our rising crime and addiction rates pose to the health and safety of our country. i know the threat of terrorism. i deeply understand the history of civil rights in our country and the horrendous impact that relentless and systemic discrimination and the denial of voting rights has had on our african-american brothers and sisters. i have witnessed it. >> that was in his opening statement. he clearly came prepared to try to diffuse what had hurt him so badly in 1986. >> what's so interesting is that was initially not in his opening statements. we're told from a source that this morning he woke up, and he felt very compelled to confront what happened in 1986 with the failed judgeship. he felt like it was important to make it clear to the people and to the people there in that room that he is not a racist, that
this was a characterure of him and that it was false and so he added those comments and those comments about that back in this morning, wolf. >> jeff, when you take a look at the bottom line, it's very, very hard for a united states senator sitting colleague of senator sessions to come out against them, but some will. >> some will, without a doubt, and i would not be surprised at the end of the day if this is maybe largely on party lines, but i think one of the biggest differences here is if he was not a sitting united states senator, this hearing would be entirely different. the proceedings would be different. senator dianne feinstein, of course, the ranking democrat on the committee, pointed out that, you know, he is the candidate for attorney general. we're not talking about his senate record here, but the reality here is that those strong relationships that he has with republicans and some democrats is going to play a key role in virtually all of this. they are giving him the benefit of the doubt. you saw susan collins introducing him and basically
saying what happened 30 years ago isn't as relevant as right now. yes, he is going to have tough questions. more tomorrow probably than today. one other -- people are giving their sides of this, but he is a u.s. senator, and that helps him immensely. >> senator al franken, the one non-lawyer on the senate judiciary committee, basically accused senator sessions of inflating his pro-civil rights record, suggesting that desegregation -- school desegregation cases that he had claimed to have been in charge of, that he first overstated how many there were and then basically he was taking credit for work that he really didn't have much to do with other than he was the u.s. attorney or the attorney general of the state of alabama. it was kind of a strong charge to make. >> yes, it was interesting. sessions actually did back down a bit. he said that he wasn't as involved, and their number wasn't as high as it was
originally stated, but that he didn't do anything wrong. i think what's interesting as franken went after his character, most everyone else was sticking to policy differences. democrats have huge policy contrasts with senator sessions and the department of justice will change radically from the obama department of justice. i think it was strong of him to so strongly defend himself against the 1986 event when he was passed over for the judgeship to defend himself against charges of being racially insensitive so that they can move on to policy differences and not be in -- so that he is not vulnerable to character attacks. i think democrats waste their time if they go after him on this. there's so much on sentencing, on immigration, on voting rights and civil rights for them to actually question him about and create contrast with him about that they should probably stay away from the issues of 30 years ago. you saw just as jeff was saying, you saw the senators just in
such a defer he shall crouch, they would -- the democrats would start by saying, well, we talked about this in our meeting together. i'll just throw that question out there first. he had done a great job of talking them through these issues long before the lights were on. stro i don't think he is getting dick durbin's vote. he made it clear that the casm between the two when it came to immigration reform, specifically what you do with the so-called dreamers, the 800,000 people brought here illegally when they were children through the no fault of their own, durbin wants them to be given citizenship ultimately, and sessions, it sounded like, has a fairly hard line position on it. it shows how well prepared he
is, and it's not just in trump tower where they've been practicing for this. it's in the senate buildings. it's also at the republican national committee, private organizations like america rising. they are all preparing not just jeff sessions for this, but a team to move his nomination forward. democrats are obviously doing the same on the opposite side. what we're seeing is the tip of the iceberg on this. >> it looked as if he was prepared anticipating almost every question that came up where. >> he was anticipating every question, but the issue is he is giving answers, but there's more to get into the weeds about. particularly when it came to issues of voting rights. 30 years ago does matter where, to hear some people in congress, in -- and some senators wanting to testify against him about things that he said that naacp is unamerican, that is a real issue. >> he denies that. >> he denies it and he said he abhors the kkk. >> he said he does abhor the kkk. >> he said that. >> he did put to death under his
watch leader of the kkk. >> right. now, let's go into this piece. the voting rights piece, which is interesting. his state right now is in the middle of this voting rights issue. many of the alabama motor vehicle offices were moved out of urban areas. people had to go to driver's licenses to get to the polls. here he is saying, oh, he plooefz in voter id, and then they just came up with an agreement with the department of transportation to fix this problem, and this is the devil is in the details. this is the first time in 15 years that people have not seen the full enforcement of the voting rights act, and there is still a problem. if they get into that piece, that is a big piece. then criminal justice. it almost sounds like he was in a different stand than president-elect donald trump. donald trump says he is putting more of a focus on supporting the police, but now we heard sessions say, yes, we support
police but also he supports kplooint community policing, which is a big piece in the urban community to help stop much of this tension, which is considered once the tension happens, it's considered a national security issue from jay johnson, the head of homeland security. the issue is donald trump really has put a focus on supporting police and now he is talking about community policing and also making police more responsible if there is something that happened. it's an interesting dynamic today. >> when you watch this hearing and obviously jeff pointed out if this were just alabama attorney general jeff sessions or u.s. attorney jeff sessions, there would probably be more hostility and aggressiveness towards him. what's your response? how do you think he hangdsed himself understanding that you disagree with a lot of his positions? >> i mean, i think he handled himself well. i think some of the questioning was soft. if you will, in a lot of instances. this was just the first half. we have a whole other afternoon
of this, and then tomorrow we'll see testimony from folks like cornell brooks, the current president of the naacp, the oldest and boldest civil rights organization in america. we will hear testimony from senator booker. lots of folks who will offer some color and additional details to what we heard senator sessions say today. i was shocked when senator sessions said that he basically thought that voter id was okay if the laws were written well, but also noted that, oh, but as attorney general if he was to be confirmed as attorney general, he would have to look at all the legal aspects, but personally that's how he feels. i am shocked that no one pressed him to allude that he is saying that he wouldn't take his personal feelings about voter id into the office as attorney general. again, i think he had some soft questioning. i think folks really like jeff sessions, and they -- this is their colleague. if he is not confirmed, guess what, he is coming back to the senate, and nobody wants to make an enemy.
he has co-sponsored lots of helpful legislation, but the fact of the matter is we have to question on the merits of his policy and, you know, what he stands for and what kind of department he would put together. i don't think that's all the way broken through. >> here's an exchange. senator sessions had with senator dianne feinstein, who says the new ranking democrat on the judiciary committee. the issue of abortion and same-sex marriage. listen to this. i think we have that clip ready to go right now. >> you have referred to roe v. wade as "one of the worst colossally erroneous supreme court decisions of all time." is that still your view? >> it is. i believe it's -- it violated the constitution and really attempted to set policy and not follow law. it is the law of the land. it has been so established and settled for quite a long time. it deserves respect, and i would respect it and follow it.
five justices on the supreme court, the majority of the court, has established the definition of marriage for the entire united states of america, and i will follow that decision. >> jeffrey tubbin, our senior legal analyst. someone who is opposed to roe v. wade, very strongly, jeff, says roe v. wade, it is the law of the land. it has been so established. it has been settled for quite a long time, and then he said it deserves respect. similar words as far as same-sex marriage are concerned. that was significant coming from senator sessions. >> it is significant, but it also leaves a lot of room for the justice department to take and support steps that restrict the right to abortion. the obama administration justice department was very aggressive in saying to states that we do not believe under the constitution you can establish
barriers to abortion rights in setting up rules for clinics, rules for doctors that make it difficult. this administration is going to be very different. it is true that the ultimate decision will not be challenged yet by this administration, but, remember, there is already one supreme court vacancy. one of the leading candidates for this vacancy is the attorney general of arizona -- of alabama, who followed jeff sessions as attorney general of alabama. now a federal judge, bill pryor. he, too, thinks roe v. wade was a terrible decision, and if he is nominated and confirmed, he can actually do something about it. yes, this attorney general if he is confirmed will not directly attack it, but the federal government can do a lot to restrict abortion rights and president-elect trump has made clear that's a priority for his administration. >> we have more analysis coming
up from jeffrey tubbin. i want you to stand by. our senior political reporter manu raju is just outside. room where senator sessions has been testifying in this confirmation hearing. he has a special guest with him. manu. >> thanks. i'm here with senator chris goose from delaware. about to ask. what do you want to hear from senator sessions? >> what i want to hear from senator sessions, clear and concise answers to a number of questions i've got about his actions as alabama's attorney general, about his actions as u.s. senator. blocking bipartisan criminal justice reform efforts, blocking bipartisan efforts to outlaw the use of torture, and some of his historic involvement in the civil rights movement both in his home state of alabama and what he has done as a senator and what he might or might not do as attorney general. we've had a very full morning. it's been many hours since we started at 9:30. he has answered a lot of
questions. in my view the american people deserve a really full and fair hearing for their next potential next attorney general. >> this morning he also said that his critics, especially back in the 1980s, were trying to paint a characterure of him on the issue of race. do you buy that? do you think his critics were trying to paint a characterure of him back in the 1980s, and do you believe that he has a strong civil rights record? >> what matters to me is his voting record as a senator and the things i have been able to work with him and not been able to work with him on in the six years we've served together in the senate. there were two issues we worked well together on. i appreciate that. there were many, many others where we weren't and where our values and priorities are quite different. you've heard many different senators ask questions about immigration, about civil liberties, about civil rights, about russian cyber hacking, and about some of the claims made in the trump campaign. i look forward to continuing that line of questioning. >> before i let you go, are you leaning yes or no on jeff sessions right now if you were to vote for him, yes or no? >> the whole point of skrg a
hearing that's going to last all day today and another hearing that will last all day tomorrow is to make up my mind after i have heard all the evidence. i have a number of questions based on his record and based on some of the things he said today. i have more questions, not fewer. >> senator, thanks for talking with us. back to you. >> all right. manu and senator chris kuhns. still to come, we're going to have much more on the confirmation hearing of senator jeff sessions. thoughts on a potential ban on muslims entering the u.s. also we're keeping a close eye on another hearing on capitol hill. this one regards the intel regarding the russia hack and we are just a few hours away from president obama's last big speech as president of the united states. we're live from chicago with a preview coming up next. you do all this research
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>> welcome back. we're awaiting the turn of the confirmation hearing for senator jefferson boregard session iii, nominee for u.s. attorney general. we're keeping an eye on the intel briefing regarding the russia hacking. we'll update ow that throughout the hour. >> first, president obama, he is set to give his farewell address to the nation later on tonight in chicago. our white house correspondent michelle kazinski is joining us from the site in chicago. give us a preview, michelle. >> yeah, this is a good-bye as well as a homecoming. he is coming back to this city, his hometown, you could say, where his political career began. this is important to him, obviously.
some people will line up 14 hours before this speech will begin. there's an anticipatory thing right now. this is something that he has been working on now for at least a week or so. it's been through several drafts. he wants to get this right. he doesn't want to focus on listing his accomplishments. whenever he makes the public address, but they want this to be different. they want it to be forward-looking and optimistic. when you look back to past presidents, farewell addresses, they always give a sort of cautionary advice to the next administration. george w. bush talked about continuing to fight for truth and justice.
to keep up fiscal responsibility in the world. the white house says that president obama is going to follow that theme. he is going to look challenges that america faces moving forward, and he is going to give his share of advice on how best to face. they say that he is going to focus on american values, on fairness, justice, and diversity. >> still ahead, we're getting ready for the return of the confirmation hearings for senator jeff sessions. take a look at these live pictures coming in from the room. the senators will be going back in there momentarily. our special coverage continues right after this. of a trip to athens, greece.
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it's set to resume momentarily. once it resumes, we'll, of course, resume our own live coverage. also ahead, our retired marine corps general john kelly is due before the senate homeland security committee and his nomination to become the next secretary of homeland security. that's scheduled to begin at 3:30 p.m. eastern. less than two hours from now. we'll have live coverage of that as well. and another key hearing is underway right now as well. the heads of the fbi, the cia, and the nsa. the national security agency. also the director of national intelligence. they are testifying before the senate intelligence committee on russian interference in the u.s. presidential election. right now i would like you to hear some of the sounds, some of the arguments that were made, the legal points from the hearing on the attorney general nominee, jeff sessions. let's begin with this.
[ yelling ] >> wow. for the clan and what it represents and its hateful ideology. i insisted on maurice of the southern poverty law center, his lawsuit that led to the successful collapse of the klan, at least in alabama, the seizure of their building, at least for that period of time. i am not naive. i know the threat that our rising crime and addiction rates pose to the health and safety of our country. i know the threat of terrorism. i deeply understand the history of civil rights in our country and the horrendous impact that relentless and systemic discrimination and the denial of voting rights has had on our african-american brothers and sisters. i have witnessed it. we must continue to move forward
and never back. >> during the course of the presidential campaign, you made a number of statements about the investigation of former secretary of state hillary clinton relating to her handling of sensitive emails and regarding certain actions of the clinton foundation. >> mr. chairman, it was a highly contentious campaign. i, like a lot of people, made comments about the issues in that campaign with regard to secretary clinton and some of the comments i made. i do believe that that could place my objectivity in question. i've given that thought. i believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary clinton that were raised during the campaign. we can never have a political dispute turn into a criminal
dispute. that's not in any way that would suggest anything other than absolute objectivity. this country does not punish its political enemies, but this country insures that no one is above the law. >> do you agree that the issue of same-sex marriage is settled law? >> supreme court has ruled on that. the disents disented vigorously, but it was 5-4, and five justices on the supreme court, a majority of the court, has established the definition of marriage for the entire united states of america and i will follow that decision. you have referred to roe v. wade as "one of the worst colossally erroneous supreme court decisions of all time." is that still your view? >> it is. i believe it's -- it violated the constitution and really attempted to set policy and not follow law. it is the law of the land.
it has been so established and settled for quite a long time. it zebs respect and i would follow it. >> april ryan, the white house correspondent in washington bureau chief for american urban radio networks and cnn political commentators doug high and simone sanders, where pamela, let me start with you. i think there are probably a lot of viewers out there who heard senator sessions say that he, if attorney general, if he is confirmed, he would recuse himself from any matter regarding hillary clinton. a lot of people might have thought i thought this was all settings settled. i thought the case was closed regarding hillary clinton. what could he be talking about theoretically? >> we know the fbi director both came out and said they didn't find probable cause to prosecute. i think what he was referring to
is the ongoing probe into the clinton foundation. we had previously reported that there was a preliminary inquiry into the clinton foundation that's been going on over the last several months, and doj did not give the authorization for a morrow bust investigation. it was sort of at a stand still before the election. we'll have to see what happens now under the new administration. i think that's what he was referring to. >>. >> i said he had not studied the hacking situation and was not necessarily up to speed on that. it seemed like to me he was trying to get that issue off the table as soon as possible in case donald trump was potentially watching this hearing. then he went on and as the hearing went on and said that he
was aware of it, but i was struck by that, but, again, i was just struck by his -- he was utterly prepared for this. 20 years is a long time to prepare. he wanted right out of the gate to exactly go back to that moment from the 1980s. a very painful moment. he talked about a race much more openly than i thought. again, talking to just a few staffers up there. you know, this may be a party line confirmation. important to remember he needs only 50 votes, 51 votes, and republicans have those votes. you can bet at least a few democrats unless we learn something else may support him as well. >> and maybe presumably he is up to speed at least a little bit on the russian hacking. this theoretically could become part of his job if he is confirmed because the fbi is part of the investigation into whatever hacking took place, the intelligence community part of which is the fbi plays a role, and if there are any criminal
charges that take place. this would be under attorney general jeff sessions. >> right. he was asked if these probes lead to further russian connections that even go to trump or his staff, you know. is he willing to follow there, and he said that he would. senator graham after learning that he had not really studied the briefing or had the . he asked you like the fbi and laid the trap that sessions would say of course i respect the fbi and they do a good job so that -- not only because the fbi has determined that the russians have hacked into this, but the hornet's nest he's backing up the full department. >> this hearing has resumed. let's listen in. >> i won't know unless you tell me that there's any sort of
15-minute break or anything, you let me know. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator kulens. >> well kwom senatcome senator koch gra congratulations to you. the next attorney general of the united states will assume leadership of the justice department ton the he'lels. cause for muslim ban, patrols, issues of a potential russian cyberattack, calls for mass deportations and chants at some rallies to lock her up and given the divisiveness of this election i think it is critical that the next attorney general be well-suited for this position and this time and as such i think a successful nominee has
to be able to persuade this committee that he will act fairly and impartially and share in this. we've worked well on state and local law enforcement issues, on the reauthorization of the child abuse act. i appreciate that partnership, but there's also been many issues on which we have disagreed. issues from immigration, civil liberties, criminal justice, voting rieghts and torture, andi am concerned on a number of these issues when we met last week so i am grateful to the committee and chairman that we are going to have a full hearing on all of these issues today. let me start with the time you
were alabama attorney general and how you received direction from the department of justice. it was the only that handcuffed criminals to hitching posts. it was used for miprisoners bei perceived to being unwilling to participate whether serving on a chain gang and cuffed at both wrists at chest height sometimes at eight or nine hours without access to water or even a bathroom and you and the attorney general received letters telling you the alabama lea 's use in both men's and women's prisons was unjustified, but as i understand the hitching posts
continued to be used. and was not acted on to terminate it. the state of alabama was sued not just about hitching posts but chain gangs. the -- a man could be put on a chain gang for not making his bed, being shaved, shackled between eight chain of men and the case brought demonstrated were disproportionally affecting african-americans. in later litigation the practice of using the hitching post was called by an alabama judge the most painful and torture rous short of execution. and the united states supreme court said the hitching post was clearly unconstitutional when it was used in alabama. can you please tell me your view
of using the hitching post in corrections and what action you would take today if these practices were restored? >> thank you very much, senator. that was an issue of the governor who campaigned and promised that prisoners should work and he was determined to make that happen. i believe the litigation occurred after my time as attorney general but i could be wrong and i will supplement the record for you. i believe the cases were after leaving, but the issue is what we have dealt with by congress and state legislatures. i think good employment of a prisoner is a healthy thing. i do not favor personally this kind of work, i think it should
be more productive work, work to help the individual develop a discipline to use when they go on to private life after they leave prison. after the supreme court ruling i think it's crystal clear what the law is, that was disapproved and disallowed and found to be unconstitutional and i would absolutely follow that as attorney general. >> in your view, did it take a ruling by the u.s. supreme court to clarify this constituted torture, that it was not just bad corrections policy but substantively torture of prisoners? >> senator, i don't recall ever personally being engaged in the studying of the congressional issues at stake. it's legitimate for prisoners to work but they should be on decent conditions and i think it should be the kind of work that's productive and could actually lead to developing good habits.
i've heard some evidence on that subject, so i do not have a legal opinion about the case. have not studied the details of it. >> just to be clear what i was pressing you on there was the use of the hitching post which is a disciplinary measure that has been abandoned by every state but alabama it was used by the stocks centuries ago and tr struggling to me that it continued without challenge. and to address ways in which our criminal justice system is broken and the disparagement of incarceration that has happened over the last 30 years. we wrote about the importance of balance of criminal judge, senators cornyn, lee and flake have all addressed mandatory
prison sentences and incarceration, and in my years you have opposed all of these buy partisan sentencing reforms, help me understand why you are against the revisitation of sentences that may have been overly harsh when initially imposed and help me understand whether you think it is ever proper for a prosecutor to charge anything less than the most serious charge possible. >> a lot of questions, so the sentencing act has one foundational requirement now and that's the minimum mandatories. the guidelines have been either made voluntary by the sentencing commission and the courts and the policies of the attorney general, so the thing that does stand in place are the min
numb -- minimum mandatories, the minimums for sentencing offense, in 2001 it was opposed by the bush administration, a number of years later could have been done in 2001 when i made a speech in favor of it. made a speech saying what you are saying that it was disproportionally impacting our african-american community and we needed to fix it and eventually it was passed, so i have a record of doing that, number one. number two the guidelines were reduced the justice department has reduced its requirements, the justice department allows a prosecutor to present a case to the judge that doesn't fully reflect the evidence that they have in their files about a
mostly, they say he has been the one among them who's gotten to the point of acceptance of where they are. while he's popular, they lost this election in a spectacular fashion. he wanted to sound this hopeful note and wanted to go back to what got the 18,020,000 people he people -- 18,000 or 20,000 people here. it is the big picture that he still believes and one he still believes with their help can be reality. >> chris matthew, i always listen of what you said after the speech tonight on live television. >> you dog. [ laughs ] >> was that he can still -- you also found a highly political speech cloaked and some beautiful language. >> i thought he made the point that i am going to be staying in there fighting and not going to
quit. i am going to defend science behind climate change concerns and with cuba and everything. he made it clear that he will stay in town. >> people forget about the celebration of this. once there was an african-american guy with an odd african name. he's just been beaten in a race in south chicago, south side, by bobby rush and he just been beatene beaten. he decided he's going to run statewide and i am going to drive in the suburbs by myself with a car and with a map next to me. today he was too generous, he said the american people did everything. some people had to walk forward and take a chance to lead and i think he did that. for all kinds of good fortune came his way because he did
that. he had the guts to say i can win statewide and beat clinton and i can beat general mccain and the president of the united states, he turned out to be a two-term president and a popular one. it took a decision by him to risk it all. >> he exhorted the crowd. >> go run and do the basic gut work. >> that was more though than just the specific lessons. it touched what is really one of the most fundamental fault line of american politics which is participation. the outcome determines on what group of people vote. and the presidential year verses the off year electoral. the electoral when he was
running. >> states legislature. >> exactly. >> and so what holds civic of part of the speech. and the really touching moment of the speech, of course. >> i am going to get to that right now. you think you are getting off that easy. whatever is said about the party has taken and whatever that's said about the president as a politician, they'll be talking about this first family for a good long time. here is the president on that topic of his wife tonight. >> michelle, the girl of the south side, for the past 25 years, you have not only been my wife and the mother of my children, you have been my best
friend. >> it is part of a killer moment. >> it was hard not to tear up a little bit when you saw them all tearing up at this moment. >> but, remember that image. the image of those five african-americans that barack obama and michelle and the girl and grandma and filling the role of the first family of the united states as they walk across the south and getting on the helicopter to fly away and as they sit the front row at the state of the union and all of the important moment and seeing that, it is one of the most important legacies of the obama's presidency. it changes what's possible of america and rearranges the furniture inside our head. visual images are powerful, that's going to be with us for -- >> thatwith that, thanks to bot
chris', the one in new york and the one in chicago. >> coming up after our next break, the busy news day of the best of today's action on capitol hill including testimony from trump's pick for attorney generals as "the 11th hour" continues. anything meant to stand needs a stable foundation.
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joining me here is our eugene and charlie syke is here with us. before we start this, i want to hear from senator sessions on the subject of race. >> i hope that i have shown you of the character that created of me was not accurate. it was not accurate then and it is not accurate now. and have no doubt it existed in a systematic and powerful and negative way onto the people and great millions of people in the south, particularly of our country -- i know that was wrong. i know we needed to do better. we can never go back. eugene, you said on the air tonight when journalist reported about him, they called him jefferson --
>> he's a 70-year-old man born in alabama. everyone is going to see this through their own prism. >> people are going to remember whether it is 30 years ago, he was up for federal judgeship and he did not make it through because of racist thing s he ha said. today he made a pretty force full and perhaps convincing case that the person who was portrayed back then was not jeff sessions. he said a lot of things that people will find encouraging. there was one issue that stuck out for me which was voters suppression. it was unclear to me from today's hearing whether he understood why people exercise about voter id or other subscriptions in various states or why federal courts are so
exercising about these because they see them as targeted attempts and keeping minorities from voting. he did not seem very excited about that or really comprehend it and that's particularly dangerous i think in the attorney general would have to enforce federal voting laws. >> charlie syke, through the prism of friends and family are watching this, starting with the level of interest and hearing this today and our story that was our lead story tonight about donald trump. >> yeah, the light comes to you fast, this was not jeff sessions to the road. this story has been stepped on and the democrats will not be able to block him. we thought this is the donnybrook which obviously not going to be. all the oxygen is taken out of the room by what's going on with
donald trump. by tomorrow mortganing, we'll b talking about this russian story of the incredibly bizarre that we are in and weird spy story. keep in mind, those allegations are unfair vverified and in a y still have this problem of what is believable and reliable. this is going to really muddy the water and it is going to suck a lot of attention over the next 48 hours. >> how much attention will it get in wisconsin. >> oh, huge, if you have the president of the united states who's potentially compromised by russian spies. that's a huge story. i mean, on the other hand, you know that the trump's white house is going to be pushing back and labeling all the fake news and it is interesting how trump's world has decided and pushing back on this. you know it is going to be hard
to get words in edge wise frankly. >> eugene, president obama, talked about how we need a common set of facts and interesting how fake news is now a known thing that people are awe aware of and talk about and now trump's tweets tonight puts us in this bucket. >> yeah, fake news, i fear is coming to news i don't like or i don't want to believe regardless of whether it had any feedbaact bases. we used to have one and we don't have one now, you know, all we can do is put it out there. >> charlie and your hopes and dreams for the next nine days until the time when donald trump puts his hands on a bible and takes the oath? >> well, i was struck by eugene
by what president obama said to get the need out of the bubble and find the common language. it is there and between now and inauguration, look, i hope that the trump folks understand at some point and how many times we have said this that this president has to realize that he's going to be the president. there is new polls out suggesting that his ratings are back to where he was. he's got real trust problems and credibility problem. at some point, you will hope that donald trump will step up and understand the imagimagestm the role. >> we'll hear him say those words at his first news conference since july. thank you to two of our friends and two pros for being with us
tonight. gene robertson and -- coming up next as "the 11th hour" still continues. it's the phillips' lady!
tonight, doris. >> your entire role in our lives is to take a step back and assess what just happened, consider the facts that we are still assessing the presidency of your old boss of lyndon johnson of this yearbooks coming out of hoover and nixon and it still goes on. with that said, how can you assess the two-term presidency of barack obama. >> i think there are two different definitions in the dictionary for your legacy. >> if we look at the near term of what he's leaving to his successor, he encouraged an economy that was free full of housing market and by the end of his eight years, there were more jobs and the housing market has stabilized and the autoindustry
has been recovered and saved and the new york terms, he conducted his presidency with a certain dignity and the grace of the way he handled the tragedies of sandy hook and the no drama and the lack of scandal. that's clear. as a symbolism of becoming the first african-american to be president. the long-term and that becomes more complicated and that's what historians will have to figure out 50 years from now and it will depend a lot of his signature healthcare thing stay or the climb change agreement that he forged in paris remains or go away or the executive order on pollution be undone or what will happen in syria and the iran and nuclear deal. >> he gets knocked in terms of being a good sales man. i heard the journalist, saying
that the polls don't give him any credit for following up his campaign promises. he is celebrated as a tower communicator could be a bad sales man. is he guilty of leading from the head and not the heart? >> well, it is interesting, you know, the bully -- making it harder for him or any other president in the old days where it is just three networks covering you, you can write pamphlets and now you give a speech, you need a sound byte and the bpun dents that are undoing. that form of communication, he was able to win a second term so he communicated something to the american people. not enough of what the healthcare bill was all about, f
of what he had accomplished and what the democratic party stood for. the election turning out a way he wished it had not. >> of your interview with him. it is quite clear that he wants to be remembered among other things as a writer. for this cerebral side, what president would you think he would liked to be remembered with? >> the way grant left memoirs that we still think of today and that's his ultimate chance to reshape of his presidency but rather what was liked to be a president. he's an intellectual looking
inside. he was less of an extrovert that he does have that intellectual side. it should be a major part of what he wants to leave behind. >> present hour and present day, i know how often it happens among us and non historians, how many times a day during this campaign and in the president-elect period of, donald trump, have you said to yourself, my goodness, we have not seen this happens before. >> factually, we never saw a campaign that was up ended quite this way and yes, we did not think harry truman would win and he won and fdr -- never as dark and understanding the ground rules of the election were
changed. the ground game did not matter as much and communication was different because of twitter. social media has changed the nature of what campaigns are like and maybe the nature of what the presidency is like. the unpredictability of the campaign makes you have to say to historians, whoa, buckle your seat belts, we are in for something interesting. >> doris, thank you as always. >> you are welcome as always. >> i said our last break is our last break. after which we'll be back to talk about ahead for tomorrow when "the 11th hour" continues. when you hit 300 (vo) maybe it was here,
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alka-seltzer plus cold and cough liquid gels fight your worst cold symptoms including your runny nose. oh, what a relief it is! last thing before we go here, president-elect trump's first press conference in 168 days is scheduled for tomorrow. that's not the only major event for this schedule. there are four cabinet hearings in the senate including a secretary of state and a position fifth in line for succession of the presidency and we can assume a large portion of that will involve rex tillerson's relationship with russia and putin. it will take one republican to vote against tillerson to block the nomination. it is rare for the nominee to be rejected boo i the senate. since 1977, only six out of 109 nominations failed and only one of those was voted against and
exhibiting the kind of profound indifference to the racial contours of the jeff session nomination that i wouldn't have expected from somebody as savvy as mitch mcconnell. if they did that on purpose to be racially provocative, to stir you racial currents here, i think that's scary and gross. if they did it accidentally, i think it's political malpractice. but i think they've just turned this issue and elizabeth warren and the jeff sessions nomination into a much hotter, more hotly contested and sort of scarier thing that it's been up until now. >> it was remarkable. do you think it changes any votes? that's my last question. >> i don't know. we've seen a lot of republicans say they were willing to support jeff sessions, joe mancion.
>> an extraordinary legal battle over the fate of the travel ban. >> a three-judge panel is considering an argument on whether to keep a hold on the order. >> is there any reason for to us think there's a real risk? >> the president determined that there was a real risk. >> i can't believe we're having to fight in a court system to protect the safety of our nation. >> it seems like trump's real rage is he just found out there were two other branches of government. >> some things are law. some things are common sense. this is common sense. >> the roll-out was disastrous. >> i should have delayed it a bit. >> everybody is talking and dealing, a lot of bad people are thinking about let's go in right now. >> have you urged the president not to make false claims? >> i'm not going to speak for the president. he can speak for himself and
>> the -- yes. >> don't count the pause. this is as clear a power clash as you'll hear in court. trump's lawyers telling the judge this is basically none of their business. they do have some law on their side. but one of the questions in this case is whether the government is conducting religious discrimination, which is unconstitutional. the judge asked if this is a religious ban would the court doors be open, could someone have standing for that? the question drew a concession from lawyers that there are court cases, a 1972 case called mandel that would open the court's doors. >> if the order said muslims cannot be admitted, would anybody have standing to challenge that? >> i think mandel and din give a route to make a constitutional challenge if there were such an order. >> then the judges pushed further saying the muslim ban
policy statement -- >> trump's lawyer backed down in his answer. >> well, those are in the record. >> the record is of course the foundation for arguments in this case. the judges are basically pushing trump's lawyers to accept the reality that one of their own advisers, a former prosecutor, said this all grew out of a muslim ban. now, on the other hand, to be fair, the white house has stressed giuliani went rogue and they say the order isn't a muslim ban. then the hearing moved from the government's legal powers to its powers of reasoning. this is where the legal and political debate meet because we're going to hear a lot about why president trump picked those seven countries to ban. tonight a lower court judge citing that in court when trump's d.o.j. lawyers couldn't justify the threat of immigrants from those seven countries. >> the district court asks the representative of the department of justice, you know, you're in the department of justice, how
many federal offenses have we being committed by people who came in with visas from these countries? and the ultimate of the answer is there haven't been any. >> that's true. here was the trump lawyer's answer in court on friday. >> your honor, i don't have that information. >> i don't have that information. but that information is available. there have been no deadly attacks by immigrants from any of the seven countries. the judges didn't bring up that moment to give the laura hard time. the legal reason to cite that moment is because courts may review whether a government decision is rational. this is considered a pretty easy review usually. the government basically needs a rational reason for doing something, almost any reason will do. but the government can't offer a bad reason for no reason, which
could be irrational. and after two weeks the trump team is still struggling to offer that rationale. it cites homeland security but no other deadly terrorist attackers, again, are from the seven countries. and tonight trump's lawyers cited a federal law about vetting for mostly european travelers to explain those seven countries. that may be a tough legal argument, though, because that law had nothing to do with native immigrants traveling from those countries. it was a law that gave extra vetting to european travelers who passed through the seven countries. you can think about it like this. if a british tourist stopped in libya, then the u.s. would give him extra vetting on his way to the united states. that was a security measure applied to the british tourist, not to libyan native immigrants.
bottom line, this was a list of countries that were deemed dangerous to visit, not necessarily dangerous for sending their native citizens as immigrant terrorists to the u.s. now outside the courtroom it may be an effective political tactic for trum top say he got this list of countries from congress and the obama administration, even if it was for a european waiver program, not for banning immigrants. but, for example, inside the courtroom some judges are already probing whether this law is, yes, rational. the government does have huge immigration powers but tonight some judges may further probe whether he is using those big powers rationally. joining me now is bob ferguson, attorney general for the state of washington in his first interview since that hearing tonight. what did you think of the judges' questioning? do you think you will win this
next round? >> thanks for having me on, ari. really appreciate it. yes, i said from the beginning when i filed this complaint on behalf of the state of washington that i was confident we would prevail. we prevailed at the if the district court level and i'm confident we'll prevail here as well. >> when you think about the debate over the seven countries, do you think the judges will dig in deep to look at how the visa waiver program has worked or should they state out of that because even if these seven countries weren't well pick, you can concede the president would suspend immigration from all of saudi arabia on september 12th. >> i'm glad you played in your clip in one one of the lawyers asked the justice department are you saying that the president's actions are unreviewable and after that long pause, the answer was yes.
i think the ninth circuit court of appeals is going to see it the same way. >> your lawyer did have a pretty good day but he did have a rough patch on all of global muslims who aren't affected by this. take a listen. >> do you have any information as to what percentage or what proportion of the adherence to islam worldwide are citizens or residents of those countries? my quick pencilling suggests it's something less than 15%. >> i have not done that math, your honor. >> if the vast majority of the world's muslims are unaffected by this, how does your case credibly state this targets muslims? >> the part that you did not air was noah's answer, which he eventually got to, in looking at whether there's a motivating factor that's discriminatory. it doesn't mean the action has to discriminate against everybody within a particular class, as long as you're discriminating against a group.
we think in this case the evidence is clear from president trump's own word and the judges hammered on that as you pointed out later in the oral argument. >> bob ferguson, thanks for being here. >> you run an organization that has handled many such cases, including challenging the war making power in detention cases. we met many years ago when i worked ccr. there is an argument that this is the heart of presidential power. >> it is the heart of presidential power. think think what's clear particularly when we talk about the discrimination question, i think the attorney general is right in their view that you
don't have to discriminate perfectly, you don't have to discriminate against everyone. for example, if the president came up with some law that said we are going to discriminate against black people in three states in the united states, that doesn't cover everybody in the united states, but it doesn't mean it not discrimination. so i think there's a plausible and a very good solid argument that they're making that it doesn't have to be perfect discrimination in order for it to be unconstitutional and problematic. >> there are so many different lines of attack here, which is common, because lawyers like to put everything on the menu for a judge. putting your litigation hat on, which do you think are most likely to get the ban permanently struck down? >> i think there a range of question. i think there's an equal protection argument with respect to discrimination. i think the first amendment with respect to religion i think is also strong. there are a lot of -- there are state court arguments, state constitutional arguments, a lot of stuff that's in there. i think the strongest piece is
that president trump and his folks said pretty clearly that they wanted to create a ban. they actually wanted to create a ban before he was the president-elect, before he was the nominee. he's been talking about this before he even had access to a lot of the intelligence stuff. i think it's fair for the court to be able to look behind what his claims are now, particularly when you have an administration that doesn't seem to be so happy to tell the truth all the time and that they fudge the facts. i think it's actually not only within the court's power but i think it's prudent to look behind some of those. >> that was one of the roughest parts in these arguments tonight. at one point the d.o.j. was struggling, basically, to provide some of the basic type of record evidence, just the basic facts and precedent that you'd want to provide a judicial and they said back to the judge, well, this is going really fast. the judge pointed out it's going fast because the trump administration asked for this emergency hearing.
>> yes, your honor. these proceedings have been moving quite fast and we're doing the best we can. >> you're saying the proceedings are moving fast but you appealed to us before you continued in the district court to develop the record. so why should we be hearing this now if it sounds like you're trying to say you're going to present other evidence later? >> in your view has there been some subpar lawyering here because the administration has mott put its best foot forward to defend this in court? >> i think it's ad hoc lawyering in the sense that they are making this up as it goes along. the order was issued so rashly and so badly and without any good roll-out, everybody is scrambling to figure out what the legal arguments are. there's one point i think the judge made which was really interesting when he was asking -- one of the judges was asking the questions about isn't true for these seven countries, that congress's response to them was to vet people more in these
seven countries and is there anything wrong with that, is there a changed circumstance? the judge is saying if it ain't broke, why is president trump trying to fix it? and of course the government lawyer couldn't possibly do that. >> what again goes to part of where the justice department does not want to be, which is the innards of this rule. that's why they started with don't even look under the hood. the question is whether the appeals court or supreme court wants to second guess immigration to that degree. thanks for being here, vince warren. >> thanks for having me. >> we have more on the breaking news rachel and i were discussing, elizabeth warren being formally rebuked by republicans on the senate floor for a floor speech where, among other things, she was quote, coretta scott king. there are over 47 million ford vehicles out here. that has everything to do with the people in here.
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after president trump ordered that raid in yemen which killed some yemeni civilians, the yemeni government is saying it can will ban the u.s. from ground operations. we have more on that next. we have a question about your brokerage fees. fees? what did you have in mind? i don't know. $6.95 per trade? uhhh- and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee?
guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $6.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. dude. your crunching's scaring the fish. dude. they're just jealous. new kellogg's raisin bran crunch with crunchy clusters and the taste of apples and strawberries. (excited) i got one! (jokingly) guess we're having cereal for dinner. new kellogg's raisin bran crunch apple strawberry president trump is obviously an unusual client. while the justice department is defending the ban, he suggested any ruling against his order would make the federal judiciary
responsible for any terror attacks on u.s. soil. and in a meeting with the national sheriff's association today. and in a bizarre exchange, a sheriff was complaining about civil asset forfeiture. and then president trump basically said he would get involved with a threat of payback. he didn't even know who the legislator was yet. take a listen. >> on asset forfeiture, we got a state senator in texas that was talking about introducing legislation to require conviction before we could receive that forfeiture money. >> can you believe that? >> i told him the cartel would build a monument to him in mexico -- >> who is the state senator? want to difficult me his name? we'll destroy his career.
>> joining me now is jeremy bash, former chief of staff to leon panetta. any comment on what i just saw, the president's approach to the federal judge and the federal judiciary's oversight of these issues, which you've dealt with on the national security side. >> the president likes to attacks institutions, he's attacked free press, downgraded the role of national intelligence and joint chiefs. it's an effort when his policy goes forward, he's not constrained by facts, people who are experts in their field. it's dangerous for policy making and i think it's dangerous for national security. >> when you look at the security side, i wonder what your observations are having listened to that hearing. there are certainly times where your old cleagues at the cia or pentagon would say keep the
judges out, we respect them but we would prefer to do our own business and the cia often when it comes to areas where the rest of the government is held to account, they have some exception, some of them well earned, some of them logical. what is your view of the balance you heard in that courtroom today? >> i think the president does deserve some deference in matters of national security. but in this case, the threat was hyped. supposedly there's some secret information or intelligence that would justify an emergency situation like this, that the president should come forward and tell us why we should close our borders to seven countries. >> as i was reporting, there has not been a security-based argument. there was an argument of federal
law dealt with visas -- even that is not about the security threat. do you know of one? >> no, i don't. i've been trying to find one and i think we've all been hunting about the rhetoric about the muslim ban. we can't come up with it. the viewers should look at an important filing made in the ninth circuit that was signed by four people who ran the cia, general mike hayden, john mclaughlin, a career cia analyst, mike morel, also a career national security professional and analyst and leon panetta, my old boss who ran the cia and the pentagon, four men who basically argued there is no reason to protect the country in this way.
there's a reason to protect the country from terrorism, you do it in a focused way, following leads and following specific threat streams. that's how we have prevented another 9/11 in the past 15, 16 years. you don't do it through these blanket bans. and there's no real reason from a national security perspective to do it in this way. and worse, ari, this is what came out in their filing, it would hand isis a major victory, so it could make our country less safe. >> jeremy bash, as always, appreciate your expertise. >> coming up, more on the breaking news. the dramatic turn of events with republicans formally rebuking elizabeth warren and she was quoting coretta scott king. when that pain makes simple errands simply unbearable...
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a disgrace to the department of justice. >> i think that may have been senator [ inaudible ] who said that. although i would be glad to repeat it in my own words. so quoting senator kennedy, calling them nominee sessions a disgrace is a violation of senate rules? it was certainly not in 1986. >> in the opinion of the chair it is. >> so let me understand then -- >> the senator is warned. >> that is certainly an unusual event on the senate floor and one that has some differing precedent, which we will get to. to show you what happened, senator warren interrupted again, this time by senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. >> mr. president -- >> the majority leader. >> the senator has impugned the
motives and conduct of our colleague from alabama as warned about the the chair, said senator warren has used the awesome power of his office to chill the free exercise of rights of -- >> mr. president? i'm surprised that the words of coretta scott king are not suitable for debate in the united states senate. i ask leave of the senate to continue my remarks. >> is there an objection? >> i object. >> the objection is heard. >> mr. president, i appeal the ruling of the chair and i suggest the absence of a quorum. >> the clerk will call the roll.
>> then in a vote of 49-43, the senate held the vote on that underlying issue. the result being to silence senator warren. now, moments ago she spoke out on this. this was her first interview or really public statement of any kind off what again was very unusual on the senate floor. this is an unusual circumstance in the sense that you have the conduct of a senator about remarks of another senator who is also, obviously, up for confirmation. so there's more than one thing going on. here's how she explained it in this new interview with rachel maddow. >> reading that letter out loud, according to mitch mcconnell, impugned senator sessions and therefore i got gavelled and was forced to sit down and i am not allowed to speak on the floor of the senate. i'm not allowed to speak so long as the topic is senator jeff sessions. >> wow. >> i've been red carded on senator sessions. >> for more on this developing news, i'm joined by joan walsh
and jonathan walter. joan? >> it's unbelievable. i mean, to see her being told to sit down is almost painful. the idea that a senator is above criticism, when you nominate a senator for a cabinet position, his colleagues can criticize him is kind of elitist. and he didn't just silence elizabeth warren, he silenced coretta scott king. and jeff sessions was not a senator when these comments were made about him. they're comments that came in the unfortunate senate nomination for judgeship where he was rejected by a republican senate. so the idea that these words that moved a republican majority senate in 1986 are now not fit to be spoken. and she wasn't just prohibited from continuing that statement, she's prohibited from making any
statement through the rest of the debate on sessions. i just didn't know that was possible. >> i just think it's profoundly stupid of mitch mcconnell. i mean, what has he done? he's shone a light on the objections to jeff sessions as essentially a racist, that coretta scott king, who is still a revered figure in this country brought up now the attention of the nation or people who are interested in politics is riveted on this. to use a cliche, the optics are horrendous, as they have been for the trump administration so far. it's almost like the disease of bad optics is contagious and now it's moved to capitol hill where they are doing things that defy political common sense and normally mitch mcconnell, what everyone thinks of him is a smart operator. this was a dumb thing for him to do. >> and to your point, they have
the votes on those of these. the only thing left is a debate on the senate floor, which is not exactly the roughest or toughest opposition tactic. it is literally words in a public debate that then move on to a vote. we'll put up on the screen for folks and most people don't care much about rule 19 but it says no senator in debate shall directly or indirectly by any form of words imcompute to another senator to or other senator any conduct or motive unbecoming a senator. the core of the rule is to try to protect a little bit of comity and good faith between senators. it is not obviously at a basic level confirmation process where their conduct will be assessed on their senator. a lot of unusual things tonight. thech say, quote, senate
republicans have regularly flaunted rule xix in the past, this is a clear case of selective enforcement. only senator warren accurately quoting from mlk's widow provoked republicans to action, joan. >> i'm not a lawyer, i'm not a scholar of the senate, but it clear that is intended to keep certain boundaries around debate and i can understand it. it's not intended to be use in a situation like this. an impartial president, an impartial senate would have looked at this as two senators having a debate. i think he should be voted down because of his racial past and voting rights past first and foremost. i'm not aware of a single republican in danger of voting against him. i wish i could say it was different. are you, john? >> no. and think back to a couple of
years when ted cruz and rand paul were going at it. so for them to choose this occasion to shine a light on it in this way is perplexing. we would not be talking about this. it's not as if the attention of the world was riveted on the senate floor tonight. this was the last stages of something that's a done deal, sessions is going to get confirmed -- >> and the underlying issue is of course the questions that did dog then prosecutor sessions when he was up for the federal judgeship, which is there were accusations made on the record, some under oath, that he had made a lot of racially incendiary comments, that he was basically having difficulty with black colleagues within the prosecutor's office.
now, in fairness, there was a strenuous rebuttal of that at the time and they continue to rebut that. that is something that is up for debate. i wonder how do you talk about any of that fairly, right, without raising the prospect of impugning him as a nominee, whether you were on the attack or defense, you're going to be discussing that alleged conduct. >> of course. and when you're talking about confirming somebody for a position that is this important, to say that, oh, this big chunk of his record, what denied him to be a federal judge in the past, that's off limits because now he's protected by being in the club. you almost think that mcconnell wants to polarize this a little bit, wants to rally the trump folks who are behind sessions so that he has some really adamant supporters when he goes into that job at the justice department. >> jonathan, thank you for joining us. joan stays.
we do have new polling here about what americans think of donald trump's presidency and whether the honeymoon is over. but grandma, we use charmin ultra soft
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known as confusing. >> is how president trump described it two days ago. >> i think it was very smooth. it stopped 109 people out of thousands of travelers and all we did was vet them more carefully. >> it is early on for this administration and voters tend to give new administrations something of a honeymoon period. we checked today and it looks like that is not happening. 51% of americans disapprove of how president trump is handling his job. gallup tracking shows 54% disapprove while 42% approve. it took 922 days for president obama's approval rating to 42% in gallup. donald trump has been in office 19 days.
what reportedly bothered president trump most about this snl sketch? the answer coming up. my belly pain and constipation?
they keep telling me "drink more water." "exercise more." i know that. "try laxatives..." i know. believe me. it's like i've. tried. everything! my chronic constipation keeps coming back. i know that. tell me something i don't know. (vo) linzess works differently from laxatives. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation, or chronic constipation. it can help relieve your belly pain, and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements that are easier to pass. do not give linzess to children under 6 and it should not be given to children 6 to 17. it may harm them. don't take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away.
other side effects include gas, stomach-area pain and swelling. talk to your doctor about managing your symptoms proactively with linzess. >> question -- president trump was most bothered by which part of this snl skit? >> i want to talk about the travel ban -- >> it's not a ban. >> pardon? >> it's not a ban. you said ban. >> you just said ban. >> i'm using your words. he's quoting you, it's your words. he's using your words when you use the words and he uses them back, it's circular using of the word and that's from you.
>> the problem is that is what the briefings, it's what they feel like sometimes. but the answer to our quiz for you tonight, according to politico, quote, more than being lampooned as a press secretary who makes up facts, it was spicer's portrayal by a woman that was most problematic in the president's eyes according to sources close to him and the unflattering send-up by a female comedian was not considered helpful for spicer's longevity in the grueling high-profile job. in the article, trump doesn't like his people to look weak added a top trump donor. the internet decided who snl should enlist in its next potential takedown of trump world, we're hearing rosie o'donnell playing potentially steve bannon. turns out rosie herself already weighing in tweeting "available -- if called, i will serve." and there's three exclamation points and in hollywood that
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about potential conflicts of interest within the trump white house. in is all part of a $150 million libel sued filed by first lady melania trump, going after the "daily mail" over an article they have retracted. mr. trump's role as first lady is not explicitly mentioned but refers to an opportunity to launch a broad-based commercial brand in multiple product cart grist, each of which could have garnered multi-million dollar business relationships for a multi-year term during which he is one of the most photographed women in the world. i will start from a criticism here of richard painor. he says there's never been a first lady of the u.s. who insinuated she intended to make a lot of money because of the once in a lifetime opportunity of being first lady. since we're talking lawsuits,
we'll give you the rebuttal. catherine charles harder, melania trump's attorney and a top, well-known attorney in these libel cases and says the is no intention of the first lady of using her position for profit. >> it sounds like she should read her own brief. i don't know how her own attorney can argue within the span of 24 hours that she either wants to capitalize on her new found fame and profile and doesn't want to. >> some of them is second nature to them.
there's nothing wrong if you don't want a career in public service. jay-z said i'm not a businessman, i'm a business, man. nothing wrong with that. we have a country that rewards that. seems the problem is the transition, out of private gain to public service. >> she's in the white house, she is the first lady. i just can't believe that the lawyer would undercut his own real argument for damages here. i also find it hard to believe, ari, that this allegation, which we don't even dignify by repeating was widespread enough to actually cost her opportunities. so i think it's terrible -- i mean, this is kind of an inconsistent argument. i think it's terrible for her to be looking for those opportunities but i also find it hard to believe that this, which
did not circulate that widely, people found the charges radioactive could be blamed for costing her millions in opportunities, even if she decided it was appropriate for her to pursue them. >> and mrs. trump has a very strong case on the underlying issue. the question is whether it worth that many millions, the lawyers tend to do some inflation. they've applied for trademarks for make america great, keep america great, which show a nexus of the political to make money. you don't need to make money to get votes. >> that's why we've talked about the importance of having then donald trump, now president trump, there's a reason we don't want people in public service to be putting themselves in
position to directly benefit from that service, at least in a financial sense. >> thank you both for joining me tonight. >> that does it for "the last word." you can e-mail me at ari at msnbc.com. "the last hour" with brian williams is live starting now. "the 11th hour" begins now. good evening. once again from our headquarters here in new york, this early and continuing battle between the
we'll show you the ballots on the senate floor after the brutal silencing laugh night of senator elizabeth warren. the decision s by the judges of the ninth circuit which may come later this week could test the limitations of presidential authority and expected to be ultimately be appealed to the united states supreme court. today president trump defended his authority and attacked the judges who will render that decision as well as the court system, itself. >> i listen to lawyers on both sides last night, and they were talks about things that had just nothing to do with it. i listened to a panel of judges and i'll comment on that -- i will not comment on the statements made by certainly one judge, but vi have to be honest that if these judges wanted to, in my opinion, help the court in terms of respect for the court, they'd do what they should be doing. i mean, it's so sad. we haven't had a decision yet,
strong point. so he invited the discussion by the court as to who has the ultimate responsibility for keeping america safe. and the answer, we have a division of authority, we have a separation of powers. we're the only country in the world withhere the you disjudic equal to the presidency. of course the judiciary has a role to play in balancing the need to keep us safe against constitutional violations such as those alleged by the state of washington. so i think the justices will eventually decide this case, but the judges yesterday focused on the right issues, on standing, whether the washington state has standing, on whether the injunction should be rescinded. i think the injunction won't be rescinded. i think the solicitor general is going to have an uphill fight when it comes to the supreme court on the mares merits of t because i don't think he's persuasive when it comes to making an establishment case, an
establishment clause argument. >> how do you know, mr. purcell, how the president came to this decision to issue ordthis order? how do you know he didn't it for the most political reasons, i promised to people who voted for me i'd do some kind of ban, i'm going to do something like this. i don't think we're going to only face dangers from those sempb k seven countries. we might. this will get me through the night. how do you know it wasn't intended to stop muslims from coming into country due to their religion? how do you know his mind? if it's not written in the order. >> it's common to look behind the state of motives for a governmental action. the same action can be constitutional or not depending on what motivated it. for example, if a city passed an ordinance saying you have to shovel your sidewalks on saturday mornings, that might be perfectly fine but if the reason they did it was to block orthodox jews from living in city or discriminate them, then it's not fine and it's unconstitutional. here it's an incredible amount of evidence that the president was motivated at least in part
even on religious grounds. it cannot say we're going to help people who are persecuted because they're christian and not help people who are persecuted because their muslim. >> the american people saw a candidate, trump, who could be quite nimble, the three of us know how nimble he can be. shifted from saying it was going it be a muslim ban, unconstitutional, to say it was going to be a ban of a country or origin or where people are coming from. i go back to the case of pr president obama signed, those seven countries determined to be insufficient in their vetting procedures. there's no way to know what they were letting go on in their countries, themselves. there was a ban on people who had gone through those countries or at least more serious vetting procedure. they wouldn't get visas automatically for ending up going through europe. question is if that was close enough -- suppose obama had issued this executive didn't th bill was strong enough, i'm going to go ahead with an executive order on the same countries. would you have the same suspicion the president of the united states had religion in mind to punish a religion? would you have that same suspicion of president obama or
president clinton? >> a couple of points s about that, chris. first of all, what was in place before, what congress passed and what president obama implemented was nothing remotely like this, was not a ban of people traveling from those countries. >> it was a denial of visas. >> it was -- they did not get a waiver from the normal -- >> right. >> -- visa requirement. second, as i was saying before, you do have to look at motives. the exact same policy, and the supreme court had been very clear about this, i'm sure professor dershowitz would agree, the exact same policy can be constitutional or not depending upon what motivated it. if the motive was to argumetarg people based on their religion, it's unconstitutional and that's what we're alleging here. >> the supreme court also said if there is a good secular purpose, secular motive, don't you think even when trump -- i don't defend him, i don't like this mollpolicy at all. i hope you win the case. >> thank you. >> don't you think when he said muslim ban he had in mind a ban against people who would bring terrorism to the country? he doesn't really care about punishing muslims. if he did, he would extend the
ban to 25 or 30 muslim countries. he focused on the muslim countries that he thought risked islamic terrism. remember, the difference between the obama administration and trump is obama wouldn't use the term islamic extremism or islamic radicalism or islamic terrorism. trump uses that term and that's his right. he was elected president. isn't he entitled to implement that policy by saying it is -- that we're focusing on and, therefore, it's no accident that we're focusing on seven countries that are muslim. we're not including armenia or israel or any other country, by the way, if he did include armenia or israel, would you say that solved the problem because here you have a christian country and a jewish country as well? >> well, chris, let me -- if i can go back to your first question, i mean, i do think we have raised very serious questions about whether security was really what motivated the president in issuing this order. if it was really about national security, one of the points we've been making our case, why
didn't they figure out before they issued it whether it applied to half a million people who are already here on green cards from these seven countries. >> >>? if those people are a threat, those are half a million people who are already here. the white house hadn't made up their mind before they -- >> i'm not an attorney but let me ask you the problem. this comes down to human ability, our ability to read minds. used to have guys like dunninger who go around audiences. >> i remember that. >> would go around, say i know what's in your mind. we found out those were cons. nobody can read somebody else's mind. studying politics 40, 50 years, i thought you can't tell what's in a politicians' mind because there's always a mix of things, always self-interest, almost always. some kind of grander interest. some kind of doing the job they were elected to do or wanted to have the job. it's always a mix of things. how do you know this is a ban -- purposely an anti-muslim ban when knowing trump like we all know, his show business is so much stronger than his depth, always bigger in when he's
trying to sell than what he's thinking. he wasn't against the iraq war. he said he was because that works. you really think he's pro-life? he says he is. it works. could it be if you followed a pattern of his behavior, not what he said, what rudy giuliani said, what he said before, follow how trump works. it's what will work. that's what he does. could it be he's doing this to get through the night? going to do some kind of ban, my people up in erie, pennsylvania, youngstown, ohio, were counting on him to do something, so i'm going to do something. of course i'm not just worried about those seven countries. the guys who attacked us on 99 /11, egypt with the brains and the thug s came from saudi arabia. it could be it's just another day in politics for donald trump and how do you know that's not true or the other is strew ortr doesn't like muslims? how do you discreetly think through all that and come out and say i'm a judge, i'm going to tell you what he was
thinking. i don't know the answer to that, do you? how do you know what anybody elis thinking? >> i can't read the president's mind. what i can cite is the things he said publicly which it provides a shocking amount of evidence really right off the bat of how this was intended. and our argument at this point, remember, you know, for those who aren't lawyers, normally you don't have to prove discriminatory motive until later in the case after you've had a chance to get evidence and that sort of thing. one of the points i was making yesterday was that there's already a rather stunning amount of evidence that this was intended to target muslims before we've even had any opportunity to look at anything like, you know, e-mails between giuliani and the president's staff or conversations that happened between people about the goals. i do think, agn, the fact that this was done in such an irregular way, at it s not requested by the national security agencies, it was barely if at all reviewed by then, there's a lot of -- >> that's where my head was going, that it was political. i'm sorry, you've been a great guest and you're doing great
public service. i want to get back to professor dershowitz. you said you're rooting for mr. purce wil purcell, explain, unpack that if you can. >> i think the policy is terrible. i think the president should rescind it, go back to the drawing board, do exactly what mr. purcell said, go through the national security council, consult with his new attorney general and draft a rule that would pass constitutional muster. i don't like this law. so i hope he wins, but on constitutional grounds, i think he has a weak case on establishment clause. and if you're asking -- oliver wendell holmes once said the job of a lawyer is to predict what the courts dwoil in fa s will d. i predict he will win the early rounds and may win in the ninth circuit because the ninth circuit has judges who are both liberal and conservative. when it comes to the supreme court, it's going to be a very, very hard sell on the establishment clause particularly. there's going to be a difference between people in the country,
green cards certainly, people in the country legitimately, and the family from yemen who have never been in the country, they just apply for a visa, they want to come in, they have no constitutional right. and i think the state of washington will have a hard time proving that they have standing to assert the right of the family in yemen to come into the country for the first time. so, yeah, i hope he wins, but i'm not sure he's going to. >> okay. thank you so much. noah purcell. allen dershowitz. thank you so much for your brains. anyway. we continue to watch the ongoing vote in the united states senate to confirm senator jeff sessions of alabama to be the next attorney general. that vote coming after an unprecedented day, unplus de of protests on the floor of the senate as republican majority leader silences senator elizabeth warren for reading a let r by dr. martin luther king's widow. we'll have an exclusive interview with tim kaine coming up, the 2016 vice presidential candidate, when we return. this is "hardball," where the action is. your insurance company won't replace
welcome back to "hardball." we continue to watch the united states senate, right now holding a confirmation vote on alabama senator jeff sessions for attorney general. earlier this evening, senator tim kaine of virginia delivered an impassioned speech opposing this confirmation. doing so, senator kaine told the story of richard and mildred loving, the couple jailed in 1959 when interracial marriage was illegal. here's senator kaine. >> 1r50 years ago the supreme court struck down interracial marriage in this country, but mr. president, the case started with a couple who having nowhere else to turn thought if we write the attorney general, surely he will be a champion for us and he will help us redress this horrible wrong. that's who the attorney general needs to be. >> i'm joined right now by
senator tim kaine of virginia. of course, i love the fact you went back to bobby kennedy. i can't think of a better person -- >> i thought you would, chris. >> yeah. let me ask you about the -- i salute for you that especially since you represent the commonwealth of virginia. >> right. >> that movie is a great movie, actually called "loving" and it's about loving, actually, not just a family name. let me ask you about this charge from elizabeth warren and, of course, it was initially made by ted kennedy and it was made by coretta scott king. is it fair to judge a person's soul or their conscience, whatever you want to call it, their being, by who they were 30 years ago? 31 years ago? is that fair? greta van susteren before the show brought it up, she offered it as a rhetorical question. i offer it again to you. is it fair? >> chris, if you don't have any oaf oa other evidence, i'm not sure that's completely fair. it would make you ask questions but it would not be completely fair. in my speech on the floor, and look, senator sessions and i, we know each other. i'm a friend.
we have gone on codells together. i don't think he should be attorney general because his voting record in the senate, even recently, suggests he's not going to be a champion for civil rights. so i'm not making a judgment about his character -- >> let's go to bobby -- >> -- but i'm making a judgment about whether he can be a champion. >> let's go to the bobby kennedy -- if he gets a letter tomorrow morning when he's attorney general from an african-american man or woman, 80 years old, say i don't have a driver's license, one thing i want to do is go to the score when i want to go to the store, vote easily. are you going to help me? do you think jeff sessions will help that person? >> i don't have the confidence that someone writing e ining inn voting rights or immigrant writing in worried about being deported. i don't think they'll feel confidence. in fact, i don't think they'll write in. the attorney general needs to be seen as a champion for civil
rights and that's not been senator sessions' record on lgbt equality, on voting rights, on special education. people won't see him as that champion that they saw bobby kennedy and others and that was one of the reasons i decided to oppose him. >> we've had people who have risen up from their roots, may come from a part of the country that was segregated, people like that, klan members, bobmembers. bobby byrd. have risen above the local thinking, parochial thinking. you don't think mr. sessions is capable of that? the deep south. he's not able to transcend that and become a true american lawkeeper? >> chris, i haven't seen the evidence. here's an example. just a couple years ago the supreme court struck down a big chunk of the voting rights act. >> i know. section 5. >> he said that was good news. and when we tried to put together efforts to fix the voting rights act, fix the problem that the court said was a problem, there's an easy fix. he's not been engaged in that. i'm with him on the armed
services committee. we had a bill to ban torture by any agency of the united states government that got support from more than three-quarters of the senators, very bipartisan. this was a year ago. jeff sessions was one of the handful of people who would not sign on to a torture ban. i don't want an attorney general serving with a president who says he thinks torture is okay, who thinks torture may be fine. an attorney general needs to be a check, independent check against an overreaching executive especially in this case. i just don't see senator sessions as being able to do that. >> how's it going for you and secretary clinton thesedays? i mean, we think about you. i do once in a while. i wonder because i think you did a good job running and, you know, the zeitgeist wasn't quite right. had more to do with the zeitgeist than anything else. the mood of the country was -- what is your feeling about the whole election? >> it seems kind of surreal, chris. i wake up some mornings and it seems like the campaign was a dream and i wake up other mornings and thinking i might be
living through some alternate reality now. so it was a -- >> this is the reality, senator. this is -- i got to -- by the way, we just got the word, 51 senators, majority, just voted for -- will you be able to work with him? >> oh, absolutely. i'll be able to work with him. but look, i just -- you know, for this variety of reasons, i'll go back to the other question, though, for me, the best thing was to go right back to work. like you, i'm a religious person. things happen for a reason. even if you can't figure it out. but the one thing i know is i'm supposed to be in the senate. and i think the trump presidency is going to be a very important test of all the checks and balances in our system. of a senate with power even in minority. of the power of the press. of the ability to peacefully protest. of the power of the article 3 branch of the courts. every check is going to be tested. and i think the system's going to be vindicated because the checks are going to work. but we're going to have to work hard at it every day. >> well, as a fellow -- i tell you something from outside our normal conversation at church, this is from a rabbi. i give this to people who are
going through a hard time. he who gave me burdens also gave me shoulders. i love that. >> yeah, that's a great -- that is a great -- >> we can handle what's thrown at us. thank you so much. >> it's great to have good work to come back to. thanks, chris. >> you're lucky to be where you are. we are, too. thank you, tim kaine from the commonwealth of virginia. much more coming up on the hot, hot dispute over senator elizabeth warren. we're going to get into that situation, how it's energizing a lot of people. women especially. not just women. this is sort of like the -- what do you call it, this is the lighting fluid to the democratic base i think. it's going to light them up. we'll be right back. a meeting? it's a big one. too bad. we are double booked: diarrhea and abdominal pain. why don't you start without me? oh. yeah. if you're living with frequent, unpredictable diarrhea and abdominal pain, you may have irritable bowel syndrome with diarrhea, or ibs-d. a condition that can be really frustrating. talk to your doctor about viberzi,
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the leather condemned jeff sessions, then the u.s. attorney for the southern district for alabama, for using what she said was, "the awesome power of his office to chill the free exercise of the vote by black citizens." anyway, a few minutes after senator warren read from that letter, the following scene played out. let's watch it. >> they are mothers, daughters, sisters, fathers, sons and brothers. >> mr. president -- >> they are -- >> mr. president. >> the majority leader. >> senator impugn the motives and conduct of our colleague from alabama as warned by the chair. said, "senator sessions has used the awesome power of the office to chill the free exercise of the vote by black citizens." i call the senator to order under the provisions of rule 19. >> mr. president, i am surprised that the words of coretta scott king are not suitable for debate in the united states senate. i ask leave of the senate to
continue my remarks. >> is there objection? >> object. >> i appeal the ruling -- >> objection is heard. the senator will take her seat. >> the senator will take her seat. well, those words are going to be rumored -- that rarely used provision, by the way, rule 19 said senator chance not, quote, impu to another senator any conduct or motive unworthy or unbecoming. here's how senator mcconnell defended his action. >> senator warren was giving a lengthy speech. she had appeared to violate the rule. she was warned. she was given an explanation. nevertheless, she persisted. >> today senator warren said she didn't think she was violating the rules of the senate. here she is.
>> this is coretta scott king talking about the facts as she saw them, that he used -- he, jeff sessions, used his office to chill the free exercise of the vote by black citizens. she's not calling names. she's just describing what happened. >> do you think it -- >> the facts may her, but we're not in the united states senate to ignore facts. >> i'm joined right now by senator jack reed of rhode island. thausk y thank you for coming on. looks like the argument whether jeff sessions is attorney general is over. he now is attorney general. he's been confirmed by a majority of the senate voting. what do you make of the argument of rule 19 and elizabeth warren? >> republicans made a mistake to silence elizabeth warren. americans are aware of coretta scott king's letter. shwas reading a historic document by an icon o the civil
rights movement describing the behaviors that she observed so i think it was a vast extension, attempt to -- all the senators were allowed to read the same letter. i think there was a grave mistake made. >> what do you make of that letter, the influence on hr thinking? you may have already decided but do you think that letter is condemnatory? what would you say about that letter from mrs. king all those years ago? 31 years ago. >> i think what the letter describes was coretta scott king's view of senator sessions based upon her experience, her knowledge. i think it was sincere. it is more than 20 years old, perhaps close to 30 years old. but i think it was written with, you know, a meaningful and sincere intent by mrs. king. >> how do you think this is going to hurt or help your colleague from massachusetts?
i would think this is the best thing. you know, however it happened, it seems to me mitch mcconnell, the republican leader, has given her the most national attention in a positive way she could ever get. i don't think anybody is holding against her what she said in quoting mrs. king's letter, in fact, they're saluting herb f i it. on the other hand, people are going to rally to her and say she has punspunk, the stuff we' looking for on the democratic side. >> you're exactly right. showed not only great eloquence but great determination. she didn't want to be seated in silence. she wanted to participate in the debate in the senate. i think she also viewed she was reading a historical record, not making a deliberate personal attack against any other senator. >> thank you so much. honor to have you on, sir, senator reed of rhode island. anyway, there was strong reaction to senator warren's speech last night and senator
mcconnell's rebuke of her. isn't that a nice big liblical ? rebuke. etch even hillary clinton weighed. "she was warned, given an explanation, nevertheless, she persisted." clinted added in her own words "so must we all." i'm joined by "washington post's" robert costa. both are mns mns political snbc analysts. what was your reaction to this whole thing? first of all, personally, what it meant to you as a womb, an, citizen and what do you think the political fallout is? >> i thought elizabeth warren could not have done anything on her own to have helped herself as much as mitch mcconnell just helped her. he gave her a massive platform both in terms of her own favorability and personal brand. elizabeth warren up until now had kind of been a little l bbi more silent compared to winn wh snappers that have been trying to harness the progressive energy. it became a trigger point, some
of the key bloof the base, bothr african-americans, they felt like he wasn't just silencing her, he was silencing coretta scott king, words of her and also women. it became a flashpoint for women who saw in that a form of bullying. chris, i went on twitter an some of the male trump voters who often troll journalists were using the word, shrill, and words that came up also around clinton -- >> she wasn't shrill. let me ask you about women, generally growing up, in school, i'm sure you've been through this. you're a different generation than me. the boys do all the talking. the girls are much more reserved about this. is it that primordial? i think it is. >> if you recall, that became a flashpoint as well during the campaign with hillary clinton being shushed. >> who did that? >> i think it was during a debate. might have even been -- i think
it may have been sanders. it was sanders, yeah, actually. that became something that then helped her with women again. i think, yeah, that that brought back a lot of memories maybe for a certain generation of women who feel like if they are speaking in a certain tone or too aggressively, that it is somehow seen as shrill or -- >> yeah, i know. >> -- not pleasant for males who may be trying to assert themselves in the same way. that definitely was something hillary clinton expressed during the campaign was that when she felt like when she raised herb voi voice and tried to be impassioned about something, it was viewed differently than when her male counterparts did the same thing. you can see how she adjusted her language after the initial debate when that happened. >> thank you. let me go to robert costa. this -- you know, this is stupid politics by mitch mcconnell, i think. unless they want -- let's be
political here for a second, not in terms of bad manners or whatever, male/female relations, whatever, could it be that old mr. wise old al mitch mcconnell wants the democratic progressive left to take over the party because he thinks it's easier to beat in kentucky when the next election is held there? he wants the party to sweep over to the progressive side with senator warren leading the band? >> that would be a long-term chess play. i think this was an important political moment for the left. for democrats, chris, who saw in 2016 african-american voters across the country in many of these swing states that did not turn out in the traditional numbers along the obama coalition and now you see the democrats not just going after economicssues with people like senator warren but going after the racial issues surrounding the trump presidency. >> and how does that fit with elizabeth warren? the racial -- because she was quoting from coretta king. >> well, she's bringing up the racial issues that surround some of these nominees. >> right. >> the one thing that haunts
sessions is the 1986 confirmation hearing he had for another judicial post. this is something that beyond the populism and nationalism that sessions represents, he represents also in democrats' minds this racially charged element of the republican matter and as they look to 2018 and 2020, they need to rebuild their coalition and part of that rebuilding is getting voters on the left active on these issues again, reminded about the importance of these issues as these confirmations come through. >> well, both questions, i'll start with you, i'm going to go to you, robert, why is trump, the president, why is he jumping on these judges before they rule? he just wants to antagonize these guys. >> he's been doing this, though, throughout the campaign. it started -- i see it as not just judges, chris, anybody who gets kind of in his craw. you know? the media, the judges, any institution. the cia. that gets in his craw. >> well anyway, i'll leave it at
that. quickly, robert, you've been following this guy like a bird dog. why does he make it hard to agree with him? the buck stops on that desk. agree wh that principle with a lot of latitude. here he is talking trash talk to the judges. i find it hard to say, oh, yeah, you're right, keep it up, buddy. >> it's hard to say -- because everything for president trump is a fight. you look at his entire career. real estate, television, the tabloids. he relishes a public fight and it's about the negotiation in the public sphere. that's what's it's all about. >> frank sinatra all over again. thank you. up next, president trump's once again attacking judges. this time the three-judge panel on that ninth circuit court of appeals that is actually weighing right now whether to reinstate his travel ban. it comes as trump continues to paint a dark and many people think a scary picture of the world. a fear appropriate, if not to actual reality, certainly appropriate to his agenda. what he wants.
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court biased, so i won't call it biased. we haven't had a decision yet. but courts seem to be so political and it would be so great for our justice system if they would be able to read a statement and do what's right. right now, we are at risk because of what happened. i listened to a bunch of stuff last night on television that was disgraceful. it was disgraceful. >> president trump also tweeted this morning that "if the u.s. does not win this case, as it so obviously should, we can never have the security and safety to which we are entitled. politics." that's how he ended it. never. this afternoon, democratic senator richard blumenthal from connecticut, of course, met with supreme court nominee neil gorsh. here's what he said gorsuch had to say about the president's comments on the judiciary.
>> he certainly expressed to me that he is disheartened by the demoralizing and abhorrent comments made by president trump about the judiciary. >> well a spokesman for gorsuch, himself, confirms the nominee did use the words disheartening and demoralizing in regards to what it was doing to judiciary from trump's comments. joining me, angus king, independent from the state of maine. senator king, what do you make of this, because it's not hearsay, apparently we now know gorsuch's people have said, yes, that's what he's said. he's demoralized. e believes it demoralizes the judiciary to be told they're prejudice by the president of the united states. that's what drutrump basically said. >> if i had a client who was going to bad mouth the judge while the judge was still considering the case, that in itself makes t s no sense. the deeper problem is just a lack of deep understanding or any understanding of the
constitution and the separation of powers to deliberately, and i think it clearly was deliberate, he said it, to try to delegitimize an independent co-equal branch of government in doing their job and talk about you didn't play the clip where he said any high school student would know what the right answer is here. it just -- it's overstepping the bounds. i mean, it -- as you can tell, m kind of speechl it really is extraordinary and it undermines the whole system. he's preparing a way for people to say, oh, yeah, political judges and all that. these are people appointed by jimmy carter, george w. bush and barack obama. that's the essence of our system, division of power. there has to be some respect to the system, it seems to me. >> senator king, we have no time tonight. it's a busy night. thank you for coming on from maine. independent voice. >> absolutely. up next, the democratic resistance may have turned a corner after what happened in the senate overnight.
will progressives use it to build a movement? what happened to elizabeth warren against trumpism. could she be the new champion of the resistance, if you will? the "hardball" roundtable is coming here next. you're watching "hardball," where action is. did you know 90% of couples disagree on mattress firmness? enter sleep number... she likes the bed soft. he's more hardcore. you can both adjust the bed for the best sleep of your life. right now, save 50% on the ultimate limited edition bed. go to sleepnumber.com for a store near you.
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conduct, he should not be rewarded with a federal judgeship. >> well, democratic criticism of senator sessions was then seen as purely political. listen to the rest. >> charges that she was making against jeff sessions are demonstrably false. they're slanderous. they're ugly. and it's one of the crutches -- you know, when the left doesn't have any other arguments, they go and accuse everyone of being a racist. >> his unpleasantness, that guy, ted cruz, is immeasurable. the latest clash of one of the president's cabinet picks, grassroots opposition continues to grow. i'm joined by our round table, david avella, republican consultant, chairman of gopac! have to say it with the exclamation point. michelle bernard, re-elected again. and jonathan, writer for "new york" magazine, author of a great book "audacity: how barack obama devefied his critics and created a legacy that will
prevail." who won, who lost with mcconnell, mitch mcconnell rebuking elizabeth warren? who won nthat fight? >> mcconnell, keeping the vote going for session tonight. elizabeth warren wins because her e-mail list is bigger, her fund-raising has more money in her account. >> who was right? who was right? >> elizabeth warren. >> okay. tell me why. >> absolutely, elizabeth warren wins and the country wins because her -- just the appearance of the way he spoke to her and what he said and then you turn on the television this morning, and you see male pundit after pundit saying it has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman, it doesn't matter, it's just that his constituents don't like her. it does matter. >> how do they know? i go into this thing with dunninger, this thing about reading minds. judges tell me they can read trump's mind. >> you can't read anyone's mind but there's something you learn in the law that it is not just -- >> i agree. >> you can't always tell intent but if tsh. >> i agree with you.
michelle, would never said ted kennedy -- they would have never told him to shut up when he was talking. >> michelle brings up that men came out and was critical of elizabeth warren and she read mrs. king's letter. let me read you his niece's comment. "it's almost like a bait and switch. stir up the emotions in the name of king and my name is alvita ki king" and play the race card which she's attempting to do. >> i want to ask you if you can justify the senate rule. i understand why they have a rule, you can't criticize anoth another senator. when the senator is the nominee, you have rules you can't criticize the person you're debating? isn't that insane? >> that is the rule. >> think about everyone else who has been criticized. >> really -- >> just pick out one -- >> look at a lot of senate rules and maybe think they are absurd orrcane or out of step, but the reality is they are the les. now if trump -- >> they don't always enforce them. >> if chuck schumer was in charge just as harry reid did last night, he probably would
change a rule he didn't like. >> you let ted cruz -- >> you think mcconnell is trying to help elizabeth warren? >> i don't think he likes her. i don't understand why -- >> i thought elizabeth warren 2020, thank you for giving us our first female president. >> i know, i'm a historian around here, i love my jobs go back to 1966, lbj, nixon one time made him the nominee in '68 by attacking him. >> i compared it to the gag rule in the 19th century. you couldn't -- >> it's in your article. >> that's right. it made the issue bigger because it made the issue about are we allowed to debate this question? it put more attention on it. >> this is what the democrats are down to. >> go. >> they don't have the white house. they don't have the senate. they don't have the house. they only have, what is it, 17 of 50 governors. they only got a mere 31 -- >> what's that got to do with -- >> look, all they have to do is shout and scream. that's all they've done. >> millions of women who showed up to protest on the march.
they have the millions of muslims -- >> we got to go. >> many women are supporting donald trump's -- >> absolutely. >> 42% voted for trump. the roundtable is sticking with up. >> not black women. we voted the right way. >> that out. >> we're going to stay, this, by the way, as you can see is where the action is. hey, need fast heartburn relief? try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster.
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the following apology. i had no legitimate factual bases to make these false statements and i fully retract them. i acknowledge these false statements were very harmful and hurt to feel mrs. trump and her family and therefore i sincerely apologize to mrs. trump, her son, her husband and her parents for making these false statements. that's all i've got to say. we'll be right back. from the first moment you met it was love at first touch and all you wanted to do was surround them in comfort and protection that's why only pampers swaddlers is the #1 choice of hospitals to wrap your baby in blanket-like softness and premium protection mom: "oh hi baby" so all they feel is love wishing you love, sleep and play. pampers but when we brought our daughter home, that was it. now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how.
heck, i can get you over $600 in savings. chop, chop. do i look like i've been hurt before? because i've been hurt before. um, actually your session is up. hang on. i call this next one "junior year abroad." back with the round table. david, tell me something i don't know. >> in february, a special election in delaware will decide majority control in the state senate. if democrats lose they will be down to a mere five states where they have the governor's office and state legislatures. >> not good is it? >> it is for the republicans? >> not good for the progressive conservatives. >> and he's smiling. >> he should, he's a conservative. go ahead. >> i am going to predict the fifth circuit four, harken back into the 1950s into the 1960s led by three white men all republicans, another white male, a democrat, paved the way for all the civil rights legislation of today, i think the ninth
circuit will do the same with the decision on the washington case and immigration ban. >> fact from my book -- the share of corporate profits wall street accounted for was 30% before dodd/frank, went down to 17%, almost half. we'll see if it goes back up under trump if he refinancializes the economy. >> thank you very much jonathan chait, david, and michelle. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball."
trump watch, february -- actually, february 8, wednesday, 2017. a disturbing thought for tonight. could the cross currents in this case of the trump travel ban have kept us from the central constitutional question? suppose you're a judge and you have to decide whether to step in and stop a president from carrying out an executive order dealing with national security? if it's clearly unconstitutional the answer is easy. if the order says islam is the country's enemy and its beliefs should be kept from our borders the could should act and bluntly. however since the order refers to the same countries the united states congress has already identified as being dangerous, does such an executive order deserve to be denied? i know how hard it is to separate the executive order without reference to the previous statements and mayor giuliani or from who the president is issuing the order but wouldn't it be reasonable for judges to do just that why? no judge no matter how fail or brilliant has the ability to tell what the president's purpose is with any real
that's all for tonight. follow me on facebook, instagram and twitter. "justice with judge jeanine" is next. and remember i'm watters and this is my world. judge jeanine: right now on "justice." >> all of these nos or potential nos are all yeses. judge jeanine: the art of the deal. president trump says he can do it. tonight i'll ask newt gingrich about the president's chances of making the gop healthcare bill law. >> trump made his living on making deals, and this is a test of that ability. judge jeanine: i'll get the former speaker's take on the budget and how he deal with the those in washington trying to stop him at every turn. he's president, they are not. judge jeanine: anne coulter is
here live after tonight's open and you never know how that's going to go. >> i always want to kiss you after your opening statement. judge jeanine: i'm taking you to the st. patrick's parade to ask new yorkers what they think of reports that our favorite person has her eyes on city hall. should hillary clinton come back and run for mayor? >> no! jenna: welcome to "justice." i'm judge jeanine pirro. a st. patrick's edition of "street justice." but first my opening statement. folks they are changing the rules before your very eyes.
this is bigger than a travel ban. bigger than a debate question. the left is change black letter law, journalistic standards and the constitution in order to satisfy their agenda. they are simply intolerant of opinions that differ from theirs. and so they burn buildings in their black ninja outfits at berkeley to stop an invited guest from exercising his first amendment free speech. they burn the constitution in their black robes to stop the president from exercising his plenary powers to protect americans. and they throw journalism ethics to the wind and promote a liar to the democratic committee's vice chair.
they are trying to make you believe you are the racist uncharitable bigot. but don't buy into their narrative. you must stay the course. this week a judge from hawaii puts a nationwide halt to the president's second temporary travel ban from six arab countries. within this travel ban, religion is not used as a preference or exception. in fact it removes exemptions for religious minorities, though i personally wish they would have kept it because asylum status can be prioritizedized bd on religious persecution. judge derrick watson, a harvard genius blocked the ban. he stops it saying it prevents hawaiians from receiving visits from their relatives from
there is no need to go outside the four corners of the document. if that were the law, the big question in the first executive order which was what about the people with visas or green cardholders, which was answered by white house counsel should have been accepted. but it wasn't accepted because it wasn't clear in the order itself, so this judge would not reach beyond the order to find the answer. to suggest the first amendment establishment clause actually applies to people in somalia who are not even citizens who don't have visas or green cards that we should wrap them in the cloak of our united states constitution when they are thousands of miles from our shores is outright lunacy. maybe we ought to put them in section 8 housing and send them
over. judges cannot make decisions based upon their politics or their intense dislike for our president. and likewise, journalists like donna brazile should not be able to lie their way into the chair of the democratic national committee. that in itself should give you pause for the standards are in that party you need to stay the course. they are wrong, you are right. in more ways than one. that's my open. tell me what you think on your facebook page or twitter. #judgejeanine. joining me is columnist anne
why did she do it? >> well, she did it originally to help hillary. and why she is telling you the truth now. there is quite a history of suddenly getting the truth from both media and i suppose in this case democratic operatives after the election is over. in one famous example, just before the 1996 election bill clinton had his ins working 24 hours a day pumping out new citizens. sp people are long records of conviction were being made citizens because they wanted them to vote democrat. they got more than registered. when did we find out the truth about that? "the washington post" did expose it after the election. once they have done everything they can to fix an election, then you will get the truth. judge jeanine: she is still vice
chair of the dnc, yes? >> i don't think democrats mind this? at least not the hillary cloud. i would think the bernie sanders crowd would be a little testy about it. certainly the ones i know who did vote for trump or didn't vote for hillary because of the positions. bernie sanders used to have trump's position on immigration and trade. funny thing about bernie sanders, i liked him when he was a socialist. i don't like him once he became a liberal. judge jeanine: let's talk about healthcare. they will vote on thursday. donald trump, the president is absolutely confident the nos will change to yeses. what do you think? >> i hope he's wrong. i don't want our hero donald trump even dealing with obamacare as i said before. come on. what are republicans in congress doing? this should be their job.
they don't have to build the wall or interview the people who are going to build the wall. they don't have to over$see the travel bands. or deportation orders or the trade deals. the president should deal with the stuff the path dweelts and congress should be the one writing a law. judge jeanine: you don't think he has political capital in this new healthcare? so why is he doing it? >> especially this bill. this isn't his bailiwick. i hate this bill. all we need to take care of 90% of the people in america, all you need is one sentence saying there shall be a free market in health insurance. congress has the right to regulate interstate congress. all i want is a free market. i want to buy insurance the same way i buy a microwave oven, flat
screen tv and car insurance. give as you free market. and the other parts of the bill, the welfare cases, people who can't pay for their own healthcare and health insurance either because they don't have jobs for whatever reasons or they have weirdly expensive medical problems. we are already take care of these people. but let the rest of us have a free market in health insurance. judge jeanine: you said you wanted to talk about the travel ban. hit it. >> you mentioned it, and you are totally right. these judges should be impeached. something else congress should be doing. impeach these outrageous judges. we were warned we were going to get fascism when donald trump was he -- was elected and we are getting it from the courts. as long as they are look at things said on the campaign
trail. in trump's immigration policy paper he called for a temporary pause in all immigration, a moratorium. let's do that. judge jeanine: what's amazing to me, i never heard in contract law or any other law to look past the four corpse of a document. it's fundamental first-year law. anne quawl caller, it's always great having you on. good to see you. judge jeanine: ben stein who wrote the first healthcare bill for president nixon. the speaker unplugged. >> this is some left-wing cuckoo bird who has a judgeship who is making a ruling that's insane. judge jeanine: newt gingrich is with me to tell me what he
really thinks about the judge month glocked trump's i am -- who blocked president trump immigration order. judge jeanine: they are talking about hillary clinton coming back to run for mayor. >> no. judge jeanine: i take street justice to the st. patrick's day parade. you don't want to miss it. don't go away. ishes. try succulent new lobster mix & match or see how sweet a lobster lover's dream can be. there's something for everyone and everyone's invited. so come in soon. start your day with the number one choice of dentists. philips sonicare removes significantly more plaque versus oral-b 7000. experience this amazing feel of clean. innovation and you. philips sonicare. save now when you buy philips sonicare. anyone ever have occasional constipation,diarrhea, gas or bloating?
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bill -- speaker ryan probably will get out with one or more amendments. the senate bill will be totally different. can mcconnell get a bill out of the senate? probably. but it won't be the house bill. then the real dance will be probably a month from now when they get together in conference and they have two different bills. i think that's going to be a challenge. trump made his living on making deals, and this is a real test of that ability. judge jeanine: what do you think will be the difference on the house and senate bill? where is the emphasis? >> because of the pressure the freedom cow is the bill is moving to the right. it's more change in medicaid, it's more anti-washington. the senate i think has two different groups here. you have moderate senators who don't want to go that far to the right. then you have a core group
around cotton and lee who want to go further to the right. watching mcconnell who is a master at doing this. watching him figure out how to bring them together. he need 50 votes plus the vice president. so he can only lose two senators and still get this thing done. i'm sure he's talking to people every day trying to figure out if there is a sweet spot that will get a bill out of the senate. judge jeanine: are you optimistic? >> yes. i think donald trump is a remarkable charismatic leader. he did those five rallies a day toward end of the campaign. i wouldn't be shocked to see him once they have a bill and it's locked down, once they know what the case is, really going out and rallying his base. judge jeanine: it's all about the public at this point. and the public moving congress in the event the president isn't
able to do it. do you see tension between ryan and the president? >> i think there is some. but it's healthy. a natural tension. ryan has worked these issues for many many years. he has strong ideas and opinions. but he doesn't quite have the votes. and he has to deal with the senate which is different. ryan, mcconnell and the president, and with enormous help from vice president pence who is doing a great job of coordinating with the hill, staying in close touch. but this is a natural tension. this is what a legislative process is like. we are just not used to it because obama never did it. he either got his way or he quit. judge jeanine: mr. speaker, speaking of people who really are good at what they do, you are the guru of the balanced budget. i refer back to the contract with america, '94-'95.
you did what everybody thought was impossible. in light of the president's suggested budget. we know the house ultimately has the power of the purse. what the president has done with this proposed budget, is he really put a stake in the ground and he's seriously very clear that he is cutting out a lot of stuff. we know he's increasing money for the defense and as well as homeland security for veterans. but he's also getting rid of a lot of stuff, even pet projects for people in his own party. there was a sense by some republicans that it's risky and may be a breach of faith in some cases with the people who elected them. what do you think? >> this is a very first budget, they didn't have much time to put together. some parts of it i deeply disagree with.
but the general direction is right. it's shock to people. trump is somewhere between reagan and calvin coolidge. this budget is one of the most conservative document sent up in the last half century. only reagan's '81 budget would be comparable to it. he's sending a clear signal. he wants a smaller government, less regulatory red tape, more power to the people and he's comfortable fighting it out. he won't get everything he wants. but he's setting a standard for a much tighter policy and smaller government than liberals wanted. judge jeanine: you know what's amazing about this, not that anyone is surprised. but people are criticizing him. i was reading one of the newspapers, it said he's not decreasing the deficit. really? at least he's not add together deficit. he's keeping promises to their
cans about medicare and social security which is 40% of the federal budget. but this is a man who will be criticized no matter what he does. it will be like this for the next four years? >> absolutely. if donald trump were to walk out this summer and buy a raspberry ice cream cones the "new york times" would attack him for being prejudice because he should have had a chocolate, vanilla or peppermint. the walk times would say he didn't buy the biggest cone because he's too cheap. this his life for the near future. he has to recognize he's president, they are not. judge jeanine: we have a thick skin. to me it doesn't seem it's bothering him. a couple issues before we go. the wall, he is making it clear in the proposed budget, the wall this this and it's going to
happen, and i assume he's putting rfps and proposals to get this wall started. >> sure. i think that's right. john kelly, the marine general who is secretary of homeland security is a brilliant leader. he's going to go out and accomplish his mission. the president has the enormous power of the retow pen. i'm confident he won't sign an appropriation that does not include payment for the wall, period. that's what part of the negotiating with the congress will be about. but he committed to it. it's what got him nominated. it was a key part of his majority and he will keep his word. judge jeanine: with respect to the latest executive order. no surprise, the judge from hawaii says the establishment clause applies to someone from another country who is not a citizen.
i never understood the establishment clause. >> you are the judge, i'm not. i'm just an historian, not a lawyer. this is insanity. this is a left-wing cuckoo bird who happens to have a judgeship who is making a ruling that is insane implying the entire planet has a right to the constitution. we have people from everywhere. i don't think they are in the last census. we have people from everywhere. judge jeanine: thank you. they are each in their corner ready to go. matt schlapp and mary anne marsh are here to debate president trump's budget. i asked new yorkers at the st. patrick's day parade about reports that hillary might run for mayor. and i got an earful. justice rolls on in a minute.
>> happy st. patrick's day and god bless america. i stand in our corn. judge jeanine: why is your hand on my shoulder. >> absolutely. i follow you. success has always been measured in zeros. but shouldn't it be about firsts? and seconds? how about adding a third? we think there's a bajillion ways to measure success. like making your toddler giggle like this. yep that's a success! can teaching kids in another country how to say "pony" make you a success? the correct answer is yeah. what about taking pride in everything you do? finding the courage to do something you've never done? or doing something no one's ever done? we sure think so.
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the tribes say it puts their water supply in danger. it the pipeline will move oil from illinois. judge jeanine: ben stein still on tap for tonight as well as special street "justice with judge jeanine" from the st. patrick's day parade. moist many time for the political panel. matt shah lamb and marianne marsh. president trump keeps getting sued with these executive orders. it's almost like a race to see which state will be the first one to sue him. yet when i think by the, matt, all of the obamacare stuff, when the president said you could keep your healthcare and keep your dock were, that was outside
of the law, and since the judges are reaching outside of the executive order and the law itself, why wasn't obama sued for those lies and those mix characterizations? >> he was a constitutional law professor and he was overturned more time by the federal judiciary and any other modern president. on obamacare he reached and grabbed extra powers to make all kinds of changes tonight. the difference with president trump. this judge in hawaii didn't read the executive order. he saw him at a rally and said i think he has animus towards muslims sow i'll rule this out of order. it's absurd and it angers people. judge jeanine: marianne i will ask you about the budget. there are those who say that it's a good thing he hasn't
added anything, but he has taken away some stuff. i assume you are not happy with that. >> i think what's interesting is republicans have always done a great job of convincing low-income voters to vote against their own economic interests. and he admitted that in his interview with tucker carlson. tucker challenged him in terms of low-income housing, heating programs, meals on wheels. 500,000 veterans won't get their meals on wheels yet he wants to help veterans. he said some of these things are the opposite. donald trump admitted that. i don't think it budget will go that far. even republicans oppose it. judge jeanine: matt, what do you say -- the truth is all of the entitlements, the president promised medicare and social
security untouched. but he didn't add anything to the budget. so what about these things like meals on wheels? somewhat mary environment is missing is a lot of people who don't make a lot of money they feel like they are picking. you more and most expense of people who don't work. obamacare and the expansion of obamacare it was about able bodied people who aren't work. that's where the people who are working get frustrated. they want to make sure they don't -- they don't want to pull the wagon when there are so many people sitting idly in the wagon. when it comes to meals on wheels, these are great program. we are $0 trillion in debt. can we keep borrowing more and more on our grand kids' credit card? judge jeanine: isn't part of the argument that this is something
better than the state. the fact he hasn't add to the deficit and he's trying to the keep program untouched. if people wanted to be charitable they can do it directly. they can barely pay their tax and their bills. >> you push things from the federal government down to the state government. they push it down to the cities and towns. it's people's quality of life is determine bid their zip code more and more and more. there are some commend things we should all share in. taking care of our veterans is one of them. taking care of children whose parents can't feed them at home. judge jeanine: children going
without food is absurd in this country. >> that's not true. judge jeanine: there are more people on social services and stood stamps than ever in this country. >> a lot of kids in a lot of schools get meal to the bring home for the weekend. in the summer when they are out of school. one of the biggest challenges for low-income familiar his is to make sure they can get three meals on the table for their kids. judge jeanine: we feed half the world. matt: >> there comes a time when it am not about are he compassionate. it's about common every day working class folks feel like they are paying for government it takes two incomes in a family to pay for government.
the money you make after that point in the year you can actually keep. there was a bit of a political revolt. people were saying we are tieferld all of uls who don't make that much money have to pay for everybody else who seems to be making bad lifestyle choices. wee all care about kids. but we have to have responsibility. judge jeanine: there isn't anyone who thinks kids shouldn't be getting foods. but to say meals on wheels. the veterans administration has a bloated budget. they need to get rid of the va and give these people direct access to money. >> a lot of homeless veterans and there are too many of them and they are not being taken care of. this budget doesn't help them. how many people in this country who voted for donald trump are realizing they are upon obamacare and they are about to lose it? that's the big challenge.
and they realize it. matt: >> that's not true. judge jeanine: "street justice" straight ahead. presidential historian and renaissance man, i'll be talking live with the great ben stein next. at's why i bought six of you for when you stretch out. i want you to stay this bright blue forever, that's why you'll stay in this drawer forever. i can't live without you, and that's why i'll never ever wash you. protect your clothes from stretching, fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner. fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner. it smooths and strengthens fibers to protect clothes from the damage of the wash. so your favorite clothes stay your favorite clothes. downy fabric conditioner.
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ban. >> the constitution is absolutely clear-cut. the president has authority over immigration. congress hassen it has -- has go him over and over again. this judge comes out of a surf shop in hawaii and says i have authority over everything it's up to me. forget withr what with -- forgee congress did. forget the constitution. any law can be struck down by a trivial federal court judge. we have dictators in black robes telling the american people, your votes don't matter, the congress votes don't matter. judge jeanine: the judge you mentioned is derrick watson, a harvard man. doesn't that add credentials to your resume?
>> harvard law school graduates are very smart people. but at yale we developed a theory of legal realism. that was long before my time there that said judges can just decide anything they want. doesn't matter what the legal precedents are. they can find a came case and claim that backs them up it's a very serious situation. judge jeanine: what this judge said was i'm going to find animus against muslims based on what he said during the campaign. are you kidding me? and say i'm going to look for animus. what do you say to the head of g.e., what did you say to the broad in the bar the other night. not that i'm suggesting anything. i don't even know hot ceo of
gevment is. >> in legal realism that we developed at yale law school which says judges don't have to be bound by the four corners off congress or the laws of state. it's whatever they want to decide. very dangerous situation. we have a situation where the judiciary is out of control, not bound by anything but themselves. we want a strong judiciary, but we don't want a judiciary which suddenly made itself dictators and that's what's happening now. judge jeanine: i can't help but think some of the district judges are responding to some of the things donald trump said during the campaign. >> of course they are. i have a friend web's great expert in immigration law. he said it's a simple thing.
the president can decide, the congress can decide. none of it matters if the judge doesn't like donald trump, they will right unconstitutional. it has nothing to do with the law. it has to do with the judge's personal animus against trump. it's not animus against immigrants or muslims. it's against trump. judge jeanine: gorsuch, the hearings start tomorrow. we haven't heard much. >> the "new york times" is trying to drop a big lead anchor around him as a big rich guy. i think he's going to get through. i think he will be a great justice. god bless him. judge jeanine: ben stein, what do you think about russia? is russia hacking us? >> i manage they are. and i manage we are hacking
them. that's standard stuff. the "wall street journal" which i consider the greatest paper in the country was saying that obama was tapping him. that's not something trump dreamed up out of thin air it's been widely reported. judge jeanine: thank you, ben stein. only i can visit the st. patrick's day parade and get everyone talking about hillary clinton. ♪ energy is amazing. how we use it is only limited by our imagination. and at southern company we're building the future of energy,
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satisfied, she wants to come back and run again. what do you think? is it good? >> i love hillary clinton she is amazing. judge jeanine: where are you from? >> a from cork in ireland. judge jeanine: what's going on. >> the children tons are good to ireland. they can do nothing wrong in ireland. judge jeanine: they might have a file on you. i'm always having a good time on st. patrick's day. judge jeanine: are you irish today? >> i am. judge jeanine: she is talking about coming back and running for mayor. >> i think we are good with what we have. judge jeanine: hillary keeps losing. should she call it a day and relax? >> hillary is constantly saying
stuff she can't back up. >> hillary is a liar. we are all know that. judge jeanine: chelsea is talking about running for senate. >> no, ma'am. judge jeanine: she deserves a chance, doesn't she? >> happy st. patrick's day, and may god bless america and president trump, i stand in your corn. judge jeanine: why is your hand on my shoulder. >> absolutely. judge jeanine: her daughter now wants to run. >> we are sick of the clintons we need to get rid of them. judge jeanine: talk of hillary coming back as mayor of new york. what do you think? >> no. judge jeanine: bye, guys. [♪] lthy.
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>> the question is who he can get confirmed into any of these jobs. >> or recess appointed. never a boring moment. my thanks to the squajeremy bas. i'll see you back here monday for deadline white house at 4:00 p.m. weird night in the west wing. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington tonight. the american presidency is grim and chaotic. "the new york times" is reporting the chief of staff is offering to resign. the communication chief is in danger, and the white house secretary is gone altogether. president trump publicly addressed the growing west wing scandal for the first time today defending the former aide who's been accused of two ex-wives of
violent behavior. >> we certainly wish him well. it's obviously a tough time for him. he did a very good job when he was in the white house. and we hope he has a wonderful career, and hopefully he will have a great career ahead of him. but it was very sad when we heard about it, and certainly he's also very sad now. and as you probably know he said he's innocent. and i think you have to remember that. he said very strongly yesterday that he's innocent. so you'll have to talk to him about that, but we absolutely wish him well. he did a very good job when he was at the white house. >> notice what president trump didn't mention. there's not one single mention of the either of it women accusing rob porter of abuse. and one of the ex-wives was on this morning. she recounted one episode. let's watch. >> we had been fighting and rob
in an interview today reince priebus denied that, saying the president has never complained to me about general kelly. nbc reporting he's also frustrated over communication director hope hick's role in the controversy. hick's is reportedly in a relationship with. sources telling nbc news he has not made a formal offer to resign. i'm joined by chief correspondent hally jackson, "the washington post" bureau chief phil rucker. he's the white house bureau chief. and jason. is there a sense with the chief offering to resign, the communications chief in danger, the secretary gone. what is the feeling and what's the noise and chatter level and the mood over there now? >> yeah, a lot of slammed doors and a lot of serious faces,
chris, is what we saw over the afternoon. let me tell you what kelly o'donald just heard from the chief of staff, and this is from the horse's mouth, john kelly himself saying, no, he did not offer to resign. so that is an the record saying he's not going to resign. and he served at the pleasure of the president, and a second source saying if the president were to say, hey, i don't want you to serve anymore, john kelly has been in the military, he knows how the command structure works. that is something he would obviously listen to. i'm told he feels irritated right now. as burn person put it to me, hey, he's answered a lot of questions about this, why does he keep getting questions about
how he handled this, looking to move past this. you talked about the vibe. it's been an interesting few hours here. because remember, yes, the press secretary is on a preplanned day off. we saw a huddling of aides behind closed doors. at what's points you had aides who sit outside these offices turning up the volume on the tv screens outside to perhaps it seemed to mask private conversations that were happening inside those offices. so clearly there was some crisis control, some damage control happening. as we have seen john kelly in and out of an area where reporters can go inside the west wing called upper press. and that is where nbc news had the opportunity to talk to him a couple of times. and he clarified the time line of when he found out. he said he was fist aware of investigations that something was up in november. but he said literally all he heard, and i'm paraphrasing here, that there was something being looked into-touch he said
he didn't fiend out the allegations were true until tuesday night, and then rob porter was gone. that raises some questions. tuesday night, remember, is when the white house put out a statement saying from john kelly that rob porter was a man of integrity. the bottom line seems to be, chris, people at this white house knew what going on. and we have one source saying don megan knew about a year ago. definitely one of those friday nights where -- >> let's talk about if he were a president and normal white house staff. i know that's a hell of a leap, but let's try that. a president kwekts his kpeexpecf staff to deal with this and know what their reporting and come through with. they go back door-to-door, every place they ever lived.
it's thorough investigation by the fbi. according to all the reporting i'm seeing the fbi was doing its job. as long as a year ago they happen getting indications there was violence in these exmarriages, former marriages. and wasn't that information enough to be brought to the attention of the chief of staff? >> i assume you're directing that question to me, chris. what i can tell you is that there are indications this came to light in the fall, that there was word this was happening, that these allegations had been out there -- >> it took nine months to get the information to the chief of staff. >> that is what john kelly told us tonight himself. in november he was told and briefed he said about the investigation, but did not get briefed on specifics. now, is it possible that the counsel don megan, his office knew about that earlier, yes. and our reports indicate last year he was being told about
this. there's an open question whether that trickled up to the top levels. >> i've been reading these reports of the time line, and i'm getting back to last january. let's go to phil rucker on this, white house bureau chief for the post. is there a problem here for the white house being incapable intellectually or emotionally of accepting fact from the fbi? that's their job to do background checks. john kelly doesn't go knocking on doors to see how a guy treated previous spouses. the fbi does. you have to rely on the fbi. are they accepting the truth of the fbi at this white house, sir? >> well, the problem, chris, is there's no clear accountability here. we have shifting statements, evolving time lines. this morning john kelly was at a private meeting at the white house where he told the aides he wanted them to go tell their colleague, to tell the lower level staffers at the white house he had taken decisive
action within 40 minutes of learning of these allegations of rob porter. that does not match the public record or the statements we have seen coming out of this white house where there was a conservative strategic attempt to try to protect rob porter, the staff secretary up until that came out. >> is general kelly trying to cover up? >> i don't know. i think he would serve himself if he would come out and answer these questions deliberately and be trance parent about what he and others knew about when they knew it, when they notified the president, what were the conversations with porter. we have conflicting accounts from the white house on that point. >> again, jason, you put the shoe on the other foot and you go suppose barack obama had something -- i constantly go back and check this. suppose he'd been involved in any of this stuff?
imagine some somebody in his top staff had been accused of this with records and police records and top orders and the person in charge of controlling all the paperwork and everything, and then it looked like his people covered up for it. >> it would be inexcusable. people wld ould be screaming fo his impeachment. this is smart man. this is the guy who has cleaned up a lault ot of things in the house, for us us to believe he didn't know for nine months and then suddenly decide he believed with the pictures it is a cover up. >> you know the culture there, is it so much a he culture that they can't deal with a her question? because i thought katy turr was excellent this afternoon. >> so i think there's a couple of pieces to that, chris. i think number one when you look
at the president's statement today, and you know i stick to the realm of the facts on hand. the president did not bring up the women who have accused rob porter of domestic violence. >> even with pronouns. >> i would contrast to what the president said with lester holt today with that sit down with north korea. because the president said domestic violence should not be tolerated in this country. >> he didn't know about the allegations against rob porter until he about the allegations, let's watch. >> i was appalled when i learned of the allegations against rob porter. the time he resigned is when i first became aware of the allegations of domestic abuse. and there's no tolerance in this white house and no place in america for domestic abuse.
that being said i think the white house hass acknowledged they could have handled it better. lester, when i return to washington, d.c. i'm going to look into the matter and i'll share my accounts with the president directly. >> halle said how come the president is always about a foot outside the loop? he keeps this wonderful little respectful difference from the bad stuff going on, but always comes in a couple of days later and says i'll look into this. his office is really two doors down from the president's oval office. how does he do this? >> and he obviously spends a lot of time over the executive office, too. mike pence is the number two guy in the administration. he's the person the president can't fire when you look at all of this. and i think it's illume negative to look at the vice president's response to what has happen. you mention ashley saying
directly to him, why do you always seem to be out of the loop with these issues? and do think when he says i'm going to go back to give his account on all of this, he is somebody that talks and has allies on the hill, the donor community as well. and the mr. president, this illustrates his comments about porter today. you've seen critics seize on this in particular. the president has repeatedly now shown a pattern to side with his allies. with roy moore, the president saying roy moore denied it, siding with him. >> roger ales as well. >> bill o'reilly is another one. >> let me thank you for that. and by the way, i know you went up to the eagles parade yesterday. and i'm so happy you represented
us. 700,000 people there. thank you so much giving up your day. i want to go to phil rucker of "the post." what about this question, how come you're always about a foot about the loop? >> she does it better than anybody else, but she's out there in south korea trying to keep the vice president accountable. >> thank you. what a great colleague you are. meanwhile the white house staff drama played out n reality game show. omrosa, she once said this about her former boss, trump. >> every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to president trump. it's everyone who's ever doubted donald, who ever disagreed,
whoever challenged him. it is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe. >> in a world -- anyway, that was her then. here she is now. >> should we be worried? >> don't say that because we are worried, but i need you to say no it's going to be okay. >> it's not going to be okay. it's not. >> would you vote for him again? >> god, no. never. in a million years, never. >> from biblical epic down to soap opera. she had now turning a 180 on this guy. >> just a year ago he was the greatest guy on the planet.
omrosa, nice person and she's just trying to sell books. if you're really concerned about what donald trump might do as president you can go find robert mueller. i'm sure he'd like to have a conversation. >> it's something. anyway, we had it in that segment as sort of a comic relief. anyway, it is a grim night at the white house. thanks. we heard from halle jackson, and what a night it's been at the white house. coming up donald trump tries launching yet another smoke bomb on the russia probe even as democrats cause another smoke bomb to fizzle. it comes as wood ward and bernstein write we're on the precipice of another saturday night massacre. plus, is the republican party now hitting a values deficit? the gop has long sold itself as the party of fiscal discipline, family values and law and order. but recent issues call into
question their commitment on all three counts. and steve bannon says his base is starting to question the president's commitment to building the famous wall along the reelo grand. and once trump promised mexico would pay for it. it's friday night and this is "hardball" where the action is. we may be one of the world's most familiar companies, but we make more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more. i had a very minor fender bender tonight! in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane. but what a powerful life lesson.
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president could miss the context. in the past trump has down-played the importance of an intelligence briefing. he he goes. >> i don't have to be told the same thing in the same way for the next eight years. could be eight years. i don't need that. >> i like the look on his face when the president says i'm a smart person. we'll be right back. mpany. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details. late checkout... ...down-alternative pillows... ...and of course, price. tripadvisor helps you book a... ...hotel without breaking a sweat. because we now instantly... ...search over 200 booking sites ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want.
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his are republican colleague richard burr. it began last night when fox news reported that he had communicated with an russian oligarch lobbyist to make contact with christopher steele. the report faced immediate push back from republican senator mar marco rubio who tweeted senator warner fully disclosed this to the committee four months ago and this had zero impact on our work. despite that president trump seized on that writing this last night. "wow, senator mark warner got caught having expensive contact with a lobbyist for a russian oligarch. warner did not want a paper trail on a private meeting in london he requested with steele of fraudulent dossier fame. all tied into kroocrooked hilla" the president has until tomorrow night to agree or reject it.
meanwhile the number three official at the justice department is stepping down. rachel brand had been a key figure in the russia probe because she was next in line of secession after deputy attorney rosenstein. let me start with david on this because you are an efish nodo of this stuff of wacky ideological behavior on it right. the president every single day seems to get up to find a smoke bomb. to confuse his supporters and actually muddle everything up. and they fizzle in a couple of hours. but he keeps throwing those smoke bombs. >> i would even call them a stink bomb, but they do work to a certain agree.
for the last ethree weeks we've been not talk about the russia investigation but the nunes memo. and they just move from thing to thing. it's one plate of spaghetti to the next. we've seen the head of the cia meeting with russian intelligence chiefs. there's a lot going on there that we're not talking about as much because we're following all the craziness. >> i've tried to keep my eye on the scope. because there's still a question what did the russians do? what did the trump crowd do in helping him, and what's happening right now in 2018? >> let's remember what's really curious about the substance of mark warner. the president criticized him of being in communication with potentially christopher steele. and meanwhile two staffers of nunes actually went to london to search for christopher steele.
my colleague and i were the first to break the news one of those staffers was patel who was controversial in writing the nunes memo. >> who has close ties to the west wing. l everybody thought it was important today, i heard she was getting a job with wal-mart. the important thing is she's not going to be there, i suppose, rachel brand, if the president fires or pushes out rosenstein. your thoughts on this. >> i think we have to be careful about reading too much into it too quickly. she's only been in the ag position for nine months. people leave the government for private sector jobs. is it possible this got sort of expedited because she wasn't looking forward to being in this extremely political controversial role, definitely. and that would be a sad
consequence of what trump is doing the department of justice. >> what are his rights to replace her? >> well, i think he could appoint someone in acting for a while, but eventually that person would have to be confirmed, which would probably be tough for him. >> who would take over if he didn't get someone confirmed from the senate? >> i think -- i mean i think there's a lot of debate about this right now, about what kicks in. but my understanding is there is sort of a line of secession that's written in the regulations right now or by order of previous -- >> who becomes in charge? who's going to be the boss of robert mueller when he comes through reporting late this year or early next year, who's going to be the one who receives it? it's not going to be rachel brand. it's going to be rosenstein unless he gets fired or pushed out. >> we called the justice
department this afternoon and they say he goes to the solicited memo. but there are reports that show the attorneys might -- we don't know who it goes to in terms of being in charge of this investigation. >> okay, he could fire sessions tomorrow. he could fire sessions, rosenstein, anybody who comes in to replace brand, and he could ultimately find a way to fire mueller. >> it's possible the president could appoint someone to step into rachel's spot and that could give the president significant power. a u.s. attorney confirmed or an hhs secretary. and the other part of this is it's long been known in conservative washington legal circles is rachel is someone who could be a strong contender for a federal judgeship or even mentioned her as a potential
supreme court nominee. she's a highly intelligent lawyer. and you don't have to be highly sophisticated to understand that people in the trump administration get their reputations torched. >> the nunes memo, that sort of died, sort of a boring thing. i think it was cooked up by the white house, anyways, like anything nunes does. is trump going to prove it like midnight tonight? that would be the normal way to do the garbage dump. >> i can tell you what i've learned is the democrat's memo actually quotes the fisa warrant application that fbi agents put together. it's really unusual to see text from one of those fisa applications. that's some of the most classified material in the gurmgurm government. the big question is if it comes out is will those lines be redacted or won't they? >> what's the importance of that? >> well, if they're there, then we'll know a lot more about how exactly the fbi asked for
information to surveil carter page. >> it's the latest of a series of institutions, each charge has been quickly debunked than the last. the so-called nunes memo we mentioned alleged wrongful surveillance of carter page, however subsequent reporting revealed serious flaws in their memo. anyway, on wednesday senator ron johnson incorrectly claimed that a text message showed that president obama was involved in hillary clinton e-mail, however, the time line debunked that in hours. and now senator feinstein also -- in which the republican members claim the former fbi
officer lied with contacts with journalists. it also fails fto explain any circumstance that would require mr. steele to speak to the press. i think the whole strategy of the white house, and it's been good. if you get people in enough crazy charges against this probe, you'll get something like an equilibrium. do you believe it or not? and yet none of the charges holds up. they just keep shooting them out there. >> and that's the point. they don't need to win. they don't need to get these referrals. they just need to muddy up the waters and make it seem like this is all about politics. today the house intelligence committee released the transcript of the meeting they had earlier in the week about the democratic memo. the most important thing to me in that is you have democratic saying, you know, to the
republicans, you haven't subpoenaed one piece of information. you have witnesses coming in. you're taking them at their word. you're not taking follow up interviews or subpoenaing them for information. so these house investigations at least are really bogus at this point in time. and we're getting drawn into one mini fake scandal a day. >> miriam, it's good to have you on because you're a prosecutor. my belief is if you have a criminal defendant who'd guilty and you're a defense attorney and you know the man or woman is guilty, you know it, it's obvious, you throw up a lot of nonsensical stuff in defense of the person. you suggest possible theories, suggest alibis, just hoping you'll find one juror that will say, yeah, i guess there's something to that, i guess that's reasonable. it seems to me that's the game that the president's followers are defending. we've got a guilty defend so
we've got to throw up a lot of flack in the air so someone will say that sounds vaguely clear. what is the defense? >> the defense is that he did not do anything, but the defense is whatever he can throw up. and prosecutors when they bring cases to juries in federal court oo say keep your eye on the ball to the jury, use your common sense, you don't throw that out the door. and i think if we could say that it american people now, we would say they're just trying to distract from what's really going on here. and he is fighting this like he's a private citizen who's being sued or being put on a criminal trial. and so what he's doing to defend that my throwing all this stuff up is doing damage to these institutions in a way because he's not a private citizen. he's the president. and so when he puts on this defense this way, he's doing damage in a way that other people, you know, can't do. and it's very dangerous. >> you mean obstructing justice?
>> i mean he's damaging the institutions of the credibility of the department of justice and the fbi, institutions we need to rely on every day to keep our country safe. and he doesn't care the consequence of the accusations he makes. >> thank you so much for coming. you're a great person to have on this show. and it is a national security question with the situation we face right now. the russians got involved in our elections. we'd like to know if any americans played ball with them. that's a simple question. we should get the answer to it. and those who don't want to get the answer to it are not friends of this country. republicans used to back fiscal responsibility, family values and of course law and order. the party seems to have turned all on those guiding principles lately. is president trump to blame? this is "hardball," where the action is. oh! there's one.
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after roughly a year of president trump now, it's been a year, the republican party's met morsis is nearly complete. small government, less taxes, less spend wg the party of the evangelicals, traditionally family values, of course, has been a great marriage for them. let's watch. >> we republicans have been blessed with grass roots supporters who are committed to ideals of individual freedom. family values, free enterprise and a strong america. >> let the other side lidcule family values. i'm talking about work, responsibility, loving thigh neighbor. >> we discovered who we are is more important than what we have and we must renew our values to restore our country. >> we are physical conservers. >> wow, back in 1998 newt
gingrich slammed president clinton, writing, quote, the institution of the presidency has been degrated to the quote, it is roughly the equivalent of the jerry springer show. 30 years later that same party has given up on all those values, instead choosing to give president trump a pass. let's listen to them do it. >> the evangelicals did not vote for donald trump based on his moral qualifications but based upon he said he was going to do and who he was surrounding himself with. we kind of gave him you get a mulligan, you get a do over here. >> anyway, the party includes people like roy moore and a nazi sympathizer running for congressman in illinois. stay tuned.
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i ran for office because i was very critical of president obama's trillion dollar deficits. now we have republicans hand in hand with democrats offering us trillion dollar deficits. i can't in all good honestly, in all good faith just look the other way because my party is now complicit in the deficits. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was of course kentucky senator rand paul last night blasting his own party's flip-flop on deficit spending. it's just part of the republican party's evolution away of what wuss once its core values. writing today, the core mission of the gop is now to defend abusers, noting that the gop at every turn had encouraged trump by refusing to exercise oversight, declining to centur
him and/or attacking the media. just as white house chief of staff john kelly says rob porter is a man of integrity, the republican party praises trump as a successful president, and an adimable leader of the their party. and anne gearrin is white house correspondent for "the washington post". what do you make the of the republican party's fickleness. oh, we're going to give him a mulligan on his behavior. well, clinton never got a mulligan, at least on his misbehavior. your thoughts. >> they're always for tax cuts and they're always for paying for them by cutting domestic programs. they're own fiscally responsible
when the democrats are in power. so there's consistency there. >> they never say deficit unless they have a democratic president. >> well, take rand paul for a minute. i thought he made a great speech there, but he also just voted it the tax cut. that's where most of the money went. what they did on spending is nothing compared to the tax cut. on the family value -- >> we've got some breaking news here from "the washington post." the second white house aide has now resigned amid past domestic abuse allegations which he denies. "the washington post" story write the abrupt departure of david sorrenson comes after allegations he vehemently denied. rather sorrenson said he was the victim of domestic violence. and rob porter departed after two ex-wives said he physically abused them. anne, you've covered this.
i go back pooto tback to the qu of the fbi. especially in the west wing of the white house, in canontact physically with the president, physically, you can walk in the door and then you have to be checked out. why didn't the white house know about all this stuff of this violent behavior of these two officials? >> well, if this current case is like the first one, they did know. they had the fbi material at hand. so the chief of staff and others would have had had that material, the white house chief counsel would have had that material. the question is what did they do with it, and did they consider it in any way a disqualifying event that this guy had been accused of beating up his wife? apparently not. >> well, i would think the felonies would qualify. because assault, battery. we also have more breaking news from the white house. in a letter to the chairman of
the house intelligence committee don megan writes the president will not declassify the memo. quote, although the president is declined to unclassify the february 5th memorandum, because it contains sensitive passages he's unable to do so that this time. however, he says the committee may submit another draft of the memo to consider. >> i think it's a terrible idea. i mean he decided to make public the republican memo, the nunes memo. you know the american people want to know. we already saw the nunes memo, now we wanted to esee the democratic memo, so the american people can judge for themselves. it looks very partisan. it looks terrible for the white house. >> what do you make of the republican party's 90% in favor for trump? they have really fallen in line for this guy. i mean the top people with him on the tax bill, including rand
paul, including two women who were reasonable people like murkowski and collins who use usually hold back. i think they all voted. >> i think it's hard to be conservative in the era of president trump. once i said, look, he is who he is. i don't like his personality or the things he says or his stweets. but for the good of the country i have to look at his policies. and i have to since he became president i support his policies. >> does the end justify the means? >> look, it's washington. >> i'm only asking my question. what's your answer? does the end justify the means? he's the means. >> no, i think -- >> you just said -- >> it's a fair question. if you think i'm supporting a policy, it doesn't mean i'm supporting trump the man. >> but he's your means to getting your policy, you admit it. >> yes, but he's got three years to go. are you saying i should oppose trump at every turn? >> is had a good role model for
people? >> no, he's done damage to the white house just like bill clinton did damage to the white house. >> there is a rationale underlying the family values part. the only thing about the family values part is the abortion issue. so this other stuff doesn't matter as much to them other than that issue and the supreme court justice issue. so i think they care about that -- >> i think they care about other things. >> well, i hope. >> many social conservatives don't like the way trump behaves. when you look at his agenda he's been more conservative than other republican presidents. appointing conservative judges, expanding mexico policy. he's done other things that other republican presidents -- >> for example, two of my sisters were nones who spent their entire lives in poverty teaching kids. i wouldn't generalize about people --
>> religious freedom. >> certainly there are issues beyond abortion that social conservatives care about intensely. but in many of these things that have come just in the last week should come as no surprise, right? the -- the bargain that social conservatives made early on in backing trump was a bargain made in full knowledge, whether you believed his denial or -- or not, that he was accused of grabbing women, right, and bragging about it. and a number of other statements he made during the campaign that showed him to be sort of constitutionally out of step with much of what they believed. and they backed him anyway, in fact, have been among his most enduring and loyal core supporters to this day. and there is reason for that. they are getting what they want. >> conservatives of all kinds, of all stripes going to give barack obama and his family some credit for having a really excellent role model for the
american people. everything about him, a good father, a good husband. maybe he spent two months time with his family, not hanging around with to mean politicians, but he did everything for the good of the country. and no conservative says you know what, he's a liberal, he's african-american, maybe i have a different background than him, but, boy he's been a clean representative. >> i don't know about that. i think there are representatives willing to accept -- >> they accept this mulligan president on everything he does. when are they going to be consistent with their values? >> we've got three more years to go with this president. for the good of this country we can't just oppose him at every single turn. >> so we have to think of the future? >> we've to accept. >> anyway, more breaking news the president will not declassify the rebuttal of the nunes memo. cent, this is shocker. ken dilanian, because you're the
expert on this, why in the world is the president saying i'm going to keep it secret? as alfonso pointed out, americans don't like secrets. >> i'm not shocked by this, chris. it's very clear democrats included some sensitive information in this memo to make the point all the information did not come from the christopher steele dossier. and some of it is troubling some law enforcement intelligence officials. they want to work with it so they can change it so it can still be released bleeding out some of this more sensitive information. >> do you think that's the president's reason? >> i'm sure there are some things that are embarrassing for them and they'd like to use the redaction process to get rid of that, but the democrats are going to fight that hard. it's all part of the push and pull. but when you're dealing with highly classified information, oftentimes it's how it plays out. we saw the senate investigation of cia torture, it took two
years to declassify that report -- >> we can expect ranking member adam schiff from california and the intelligence committee to issue a new version of the memo next week, and that'll set the clock ticking again. is that right? >> yeah, that's our understanding. really the executive branch holds a lot of cards here. congress has to dedefer to them when they say, hey, there's some secrets we need to with hold. the republicans need help to force the president's decision on this. >> some people have pointed out that the republican party even without trump has lost some of its core principles. republicans have been very concerned as i have been growing up with deficits. i worry about how much the government can borrow, how much before it pushes interest rates up and taxes young couples to pay out key bonds for older
owners, and how long can we keep doing that? there's no interest of the republican party about deficits especially under a republican bae president. >> it's over a trillion dollars now. when are they going to start being worried? >> chris, paul ryan has already said the next thing we have to do is get at medicare, medicaid, social security. he's got a plan. >> but to a point you care about -- i didn't like that spending bill. i agree in general with rand paul. but, you know, how do you govern in washington these days when washington is so polarized? and we have the 60 vote in the senate perhaps this is the only way to legislate. >> congressman, thank you for joining us by phone. what do you make of the fact the president is sitting on this
democratic memo? >> good evening, chris. i'm reflexively skeptical as one should be with the president around this investigation. it looks obstructive, but i'm willing to give the department of justice the benefit of the doubt and hear from them if they are going to come in on tuesday and explain to us what their concerns are and that those concerns are not from any pressure that the president has put on them. and if they are legitimate, then we should still release the memo that correct the record but is free from any political omigs r omissions that the president may want to have. >> what do you think of the timing? here he is pulling it after the nightly news, probably going to miss a lot of press coverage by the way they timed this. this is the old garbage dump time of the week. midnight, heading towards midnight on a friday night, that's when you tell people what you don't want them to hear. what do you make of that, congressman? >> in congress we are now in the
position where we must demand that be displayed to public. devin nunes is the one who moved for this to become public. devin nunes should stand on the house floor on tuesday and say to his colleagues to release it. it's now back in our court. we should hear from the department first, but i do suspect knowing this president he may have tried to put political pressure on the department of justice. >> can i trick you into telling me what the most important thing we should read or expect to come from this memo, or you can't tell us? >> i can tell you it shows the arsenal of evidence that went into surveilling carter page nptd of the steele investigation. i think it puts a very accurate time line and it shows or elevates the seriousness of what russia was doing and why we should have been so concerned about who they were working. >> i think that is what people want to know, that this whole thing that was trumped up, literally trumped up, that somehow the only reason they
looked into the russia situation is because of what christopher steele did for the democrats. >> as congressman swalwell said, the democratic memo was supposed to give a longer time line, showed the interest in carter page that predated that episode, and why he in particular was of concern. and he was of concern before this whole thing happened. >> yeah, 2013. >> yeah, exactly. so why was that? and the thing that the trump campaign and now trump administration has never liked is the obvious question that comes next, which is what were they doing hang out with this guy? like why was he a foreign policy advisor if he had these known problems? and why once carter page himself knew that there was a problem afoot and potentially knew that he was under investigation or surveillance, why did he himself not come forward?
>> grzmcongressman, let me ask about that. the fact this memo responding to the nunes memo would clarify the reason that the fbi looked and surveilled basically, carter page -- anything we expect to hear as the final version comes out next week, the revised version of the democratic memo, what else can we expect to learn? >> it was mostly to restore, fairly restore the credibility of the fbi. because they sought to really poison the investigation. this memo of theirs needed an ant dote. the fbi's credibility needed an anticipate dote. and so that's what it did. but, chris, we did something they weren't willing to do. we asked the department to review our memo before it went out. so if this is the department saying they have concerns, then we should be open to addressing them. but i really knowing this president, i have a lot of questions about what his role was in making this decision. >> there's a big story that
broke later today which is you're going to separate the two staffs of the senate and house intelligence committee by a wall. is that because you don't trust the republican staff members on the committee, that they're working with the white house? >> no, we think that would be a terrible decision. this committee has always worked in an open manner. it's been a bipartisan committee. this is something that we understand is being done at the urging of the chairman. and we hope that's not the case. and hell, chris, if we take back the white house you can expect us having to teardown that wall party so we can go back to bipartisanship. >> so you think they're up to something, that they're hiding from you? >> no, i think it's their consistent nature of wanting to not bring us in on this investigation and continue to pursue their own i think obstructive behavior and actions. and so it's unfortunate, but it's not how our committee has ever worked in the past and, you know, hopefully this is only for
ukraine intractable, syria, extend the new star treaty for five years that's going to expire in 2021 as a result of these two presidents coming together? yeah. can they agree for no nuclear proliferation and put pressure on north korea and also put pressure on iran? is that possible? i think so. paul: okay. let's talk about the domestic politics here because you know to have an effective foreign policy, you need domestic support. and the way the president handled that press conference has really hurt him in terms of his ability, i think, to maneuver inside congress and have the support he needs. why did he get such at odds with the intelligence community judgment about 2016, when he really didn't need to? >> yeah, i mean, listen, monday was a disaster. i think it was a low point of his presidency, to be sure. i don't get it to be frank, paul. i mean, i know that they put a
president? >> you know, there's a lot of misunderstanding about this. in talking to the people around the president, who i know, the president drives foreign policy and national security, make no mistake about it. paul: correct. >> and listen, i think this president -- i mean despite this week of criticism, he's the toughest guy on russia since ronald reagan, and the facts are on the table. look, the trump defense buildup comparable to the reagan buildup. it has to last a few more years to be sure. increasing the defense budgets in nato. we have deployed additional troops on the eastern border on the russian border. okay? not to the degree we need, but to be sure, putin is paying attention to all those three things. fourth, what we've done in ukraine in terms of anti-tank weapons. and of course we've responded twice to assad's chemical attack, and that's his ally. we're pushing back on iranians, and that's his ally. putin is paying attention to that. he's paying less attention to the rhetoric that goes on here. paul: you mentioned nato.
let's listen to the president to answer a question from tucker carlson on montenegro. >> membership in nato obligates the members to defend any other member that's attacked. let's say montenegro is attacked, why should my son go there to defend it? >> i understand what you are saying. montenegro is a tiny country with very strong people, very aggressive people, and they may get aggressive, and congratulations you are in world war iii. paul: deterrence is the core function of nato or any alliance like this. does a comment like that suggest some doubt about whether or not we're willing to commit to that level of deterrence? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, one of putin's major objectives certainly he resents the fact that russia strategic buffer from world war ii to the president is gone and that strategic buffer was eastern europe. and they had an agreement in the 90s that, you know, these countries would not become a
part of nato, but they ran towards nato because they feared the intimidation and the coercion of russia. that's what montenegro is all about. they want to get underneath the tent and get some level of protection. that comment there obviously denigrates the whole concept of what this is about. i think that eventually will likely probably come in because of the same reason all the other eastern europeans are in there. paul: right. >> the president will support that, and they will be part of article v collective defense fight for one on behalf of the whole collective operation of nato. paul: if you are putin, you look at that and say, maybe just a tad little bit -- >> no doubt about that. i think he looks at merkel to be quite frank about it. there's guys like me sitting around putin and saying to him, if we took the three baltic capitals, would merkel really commit her infantry? paul: that's exactly -- >> that's a question. paul: it is a question. it is an important one. still ahead, republicans are under pressure to stand up to russia following the president's
inconsistent statements this week. what congress can do to contain putin and maybe president trump, when we come back. >> 2018 is around the corner. our job is to ensure what happened in 16 doesn't happen again. i believe it will if we don't act. what do you have there? p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein. gathered here are the world's finest insurance experts. rodney -- mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching
columnist, editorial board member, and columnist and manhattan institute senior fellow. mary, i recall clearly last week you said the summit with putin was a bad idea. has the week made you change your mind about that? >> no, it hasn't at all. i think it is safe to say this was not a highlight of the trump presidency. now, as to what congress can do, they are a little limited of course because the executive branch is the one that sets foreign policy, but we have seen congress impose some pretty significant sanctions on russia, most notably after the invasion of ukraine and they could do so again. paul: but how much damage here? before we get a little more on congress, how much damage here do you think this has done after the full week? he reversed himself and second invitation to putin. how much damage has he done to his presidency? >> i'm not a chicken little paul i don't think the world is going to end because of one disastrous press conference. however, trump did take a hit.
i think he looked subservient to putin, i don't use that word lightly. and i think what he's done is unified congress around the idea of cracking down on putin and he's raised concerns among the allies too. let's not forget about them. they rely on us in large part for leadership, whether it's in the baltics or in eastern europe or nato as general jack keane just talked about. and i think the prestige took quite a big hit this week. paul: jason? >> i think they have spent the week trying to clean up this mess. that gives you some idea of how much damage they think was done this week. hurting relations not only with the intelligence community, but also with the european union and nato and also domestically. mary is right. trump supporters like the fact that he doesn't back down. he plows ahead. he doesn't apologize. here he was standing next to vladimir putin, had the chance to tell him we know what you did, don't do it again and trump went wobbly. and i think that he hurt himself
domestically as a result of that. paul: bill, what about this disagreements we're hearing about between some of the intelligence officials and the white house? particularly dan coats, the director of national intelligence. he was -- seemed in an interview to be stunned by the news that the president has issued an invitation for putin to come in the fall, and issued a statement after the summit defending the intelligence community. >> right, well, look, we all know that the russians meddled. everyone knows that. i think even president trump knows it because he walked back his remarks earlier. look, he's still the president. and i think the storm will pass, probably because another storm will come up in its place. [laughter] >> but i would like to see there are interesting ideas out there. first of all, we know from this that the sanctions really bite, right? we know that the russians particularly vladimir putin really hate those sanctions. i think the actions this week will make it much harder to lift those sanctions, which is a good thing. and there are other interesting
ideas. the washington post had a story saying we ought to move our troops from germany to poland. to me that would be an incredible step forward. paul: speaking of congress, 98 to nothing vote this week by the senate warning the president not to take up putin's request to have -- to come and have russian prosecutors interview american officials who might know something about bill browder who is one of the authors of the act, a sanctions bill that passed in 2012 and has sanctioned i think about 51 russians. >> yeah, putin is trying out the classic cold war tactics, paul, where he offers something in return for something that he shouldn't have. president trump of course wants to question the people who were hacking into the dnc servers -- paul: -- last week. >> right, in return putin says oh yeah let me question these 12 americans that i think have committed crimes against russia. and trump fell for it
unfortunately. now -- paul: he stepped back from it. >> because of that backlash from congress, he stepped back. that's a good thing. that also shows that checks and balances in the american system work. but the very idea that the white house spokesperson sarah huckabee sanders didn't immediately shut that down, that putin request, when she was asked about it this week, to me shows a fundamental lack of communication within the administration and a lack of understanding of putin's method and his tactics. >> it also shows an inability of trump to distinguish two things here, which is russian meddling and collusion. he needs to say over and over again yes, we know russia meddled. they better not do it again. my administration had nothing to do with it. paul: they are separate issues. >> they are separate issues. he continues to conflate them and his political opponents have no problem with that. >> why does he keep doing that? >> i think that's all he's thinking is collusion and he's not distinguishing between the two. paul: he's thinking it
undermines the legitimacy on the election. you just make the distinction. he's giving ammunition, bill, to his opponents. what do you think of the second summit? good idea? >> no, i think it is a bad idea. i agree with jason. look, i think a lot of what has led donald trump to say certain things on russia is he doesn't want to give his enemies any quarter and that means saying some dumb things and setting off this kind of storm. that said, i think that again a lot of this is atmospheric. we all get distracted about it. the president like many presidents gets distracted by the idea that having a one-on-one relationship with some dictator is going to improve the situation. that's a perennial problem. and i think the risks here when you don't have something that you want specifically from them shows what can happen. look, with kim, at least we know what we want to do. we want a denuclearized peninsula. i don't think it's a good idea unless you are going to get something that you really want
out of it and you know that beforehand. paul: all right. thank you all. still ahead a vote in the house this week on a g.o.p. resolution supporting i.c.e. calls from those on the left to abolish the immigration agency. a look at how the issue will play in november. when we come back. ♪motorcycle revving ♪ motorcycle revving ♪motorcycle revving ♪ motorcycle revving ♪ no matter who rides point, ♪ there are over 10,000 allstate agents riding sweep. ♪♪ and just like tyrone taylor, they know what it takes to help keep you protected. are you in good hands? if his denture can cope with... a steak. luckily for him, he uses super poligrip. it helps give him 65% more chewing power. leaving brad to dig in and enjoy. super poligrip.
are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. paul: the house on wednesday approved a republican resolution supporting u.s. immigrations and customs enforcement as republican leaders sought to put democrats on record over calls to abolish the agency. some on the left are attacking i.c.e. amid the outcry over families separations at the borders. in what is shaping up to be a defining issue in the november election. president trump seized on the issue this week tweeting the democrats have a death wish in more ways than one.
they actually want to abolish i.c.e. this should cost them heavily in the midterms. we're back with bill, mary and jason. jason, what do you make of the house vote on i.c.e. this week? >> well, it was a bit of show there. but i think it is reflective of the country on this issue frankly, much more than these progressive democrats are calling for the abolition of i.c.e. i think majority of americans want the border better patrolled, paul, not eliminate. this idea that people just want to give up on border security is nonsense. it is also strange given as you mentioned there we've had this child separation issue. paul: right. >> a vast majority of americans have a problem with that. the democrats had a good issue there. why change the subject to abolishing i.c.e.? it doesn't make much sense. paul: yeah, bill, it seems to me that both sides here think that immigration is going to work for them in november. democrats think they can make hey with the fact that daca and the dreamers haven't been
legalized and the family separation. republicans think i.c.e. and the abolition of i.c.e. is an issue for them. who gets the upper hand here? >> well, i think for the last decade and a half or so, the issue has worked for the democrats. and i think there's a lot of suspicion that president obama for example as a senator and as president preferred to have the issue, in other words, accusing republicans of being racist and so forth than to have a resolution. i thought earlier this year that the failure to get something done on dreamers, which is sort of the easiest part of the equation because they were brought here by others. they didn't, you know, come themselves. paul: right. >> was something easier, basically a border wall for dreamers. i thought that might hurt the republicans. but it looks like the democrats are bent on shooting themselves in the foot. the abolish i.c.e. thing comes across as we want lawlessness. i mean, these are the same people pushing sanctuary cities and so forth. and i'm amazed at how they are
taking an issue and making themselves as unattractive as they can be to the american people. paul: immigration seems to me works for the democrats when it is about opportunity and fairness. and it works for the republicans when it's about security. >> absolutely. paul: abolishing i.c.e. mary turns it into a security issue. >> i think that's right, paul. the greater tragedy here is that there was a deal to be done on immigration reform. border security in exchange for legalizing the dreamers, and to bill's point just now, the democrats wanted immigration as an issue under obama. they didn't want a solution. and i think republicans unfortunately are using the same tactic when it comes to i.c.e. they want an issue, not a solution. the democrats don't want to deal so you can't put all the blame on the republicans. but you know i think the dreamers here will suffer. paul: this is a developing trend among democrats, jason. you've got gillibrand, warren,
sanders, three senators all whom want to run for president, all taking the abolish i.c.e. position. is this going to divide the democrats going forward? >> i think it will divide the democrats, especially those who think we're losing white blue-collar workers. i don't know how an issue like eliminating i.c.e. helps attract those. but it's how progressives have really taken over the party, whether it's $15 minimum wage, a single payer healthcare, these used to be fringe issues held by progressives. now they have entered the mainstream democratic thinking. paul: i think you will see a lot of democrats not adopt abolish i.c.e. i think they will just drop it and not talk about it. trump wants to talk about it all the time. that's how he wants to define this issue between now and november. >> i think that's why you saw 133 democrats vote present on this bill supporting i.c.e. and it's also why you saw some pennsylvania democrats, lamb, cartwright vote for the bill because they are in trump
country and they realize that and would like to keep their office. paul: it also accentuates the issue a little bit of crime. you've got ms-13 which ravages some neighborhoods we know here in new york state and elsewhere. and nobody wants that. democrat or republican. but that i.c.e. is fighting that group. >> i think it goes back to your point. it's not just -- it's lawlessness, and if lawlessness becomes a defining part of the issue, the republicans will gain. and they won't back -- they will prefer to keep this as live as an issue. paul: it is a shame because both sides are in their respective camps and we can't seem to get anything done ever on immigration. when we come back, from abolishing i.c.e. to single payer healthcare, a look at the democrats left turn and the growing strength of progressives within the party. karl rove on what it means for the midterms, next. ♪ when i ts ♪ it's so hard to believe ♪ but it's all coming back me.
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another party elder, endorsing progressive state senator kevin deleon over four term senator dianne feinstein. deleon backs a single payer healthcare system. karl rove served as deputy chief of staff and senior advisor to president george w. bush. so welcome, karl. how divided are democrats going into this election? >> well, increasingly divided because you just touched on a couple of them. we've seen this throughout the primary season, that in cases of races where the democrats had a shot to win, they threw it away by going hard left. the key example to me was nebraska too. this is the most democratic part of nebraska. it is part of the state that obama carried, that hilary clinton did well in. they had a democratic congressman until recently.
he was trying to get the democrat nod back again. and he'd have a shot in the general election. but the democrats instead went hard left with a woman named kara eastman who is in favor of medicare for all, free college, guaranteed job with a guaranteed paycheck, and in a midwest district like that, that is sane and sensible, even a lot of democrats are going to find that too much to go for. paul: but you know, karl, look, ocasio cortez it seems to me has a point at least on one thing, and that is enthusiasm and energy and passion. and if you stand for something, you're going to motivate people to vote. in 2010, as you know, the response from republicans to president obama was driven in part by that kind of passion. voters know that trump is going to have the veto authority. but the democrats may be motivated enough to put a check on that and some of these issues may not matter as much. >> well, maybe, but look, she
comes from a very liberal district that is not representative of the country. when she goes out to campaign around the country, she's going to raise questions that local candidates are going to have to raise. in dallas, texas, in the 32nd congressional district, if she comes in and campaigns for collin allred, people will ask him do you agree with her that israel is conducting an illegal occupation of palestine? are you in favor of free jobs, free healthcare, free college? are you in favor of that kind of an agenda? are you a democratic socialist? some of that stuff will work well if you are in, you know, san francisco, but to win the house, the democrats will have to win a lot of seats in places like pennsylvania, michigan, illinois and texas and the parts of california that don't like how they voted in the bay area. paul: karl, then what you do is you don't invite cortez or
warren in those districts you invite bill clinton or somebody who is more popular in those districts. >> sure, but look this is a sentiment that is grabbing -- that is gaining strength inside the democratic party. here in texas they nominated a rock star named robert francis for the u.s. senate against ted cruz. i think it is hilarious we have the robert francis running and we have the cruz running as ted. but he came out this week in favor of impeaching donald trump. it may be popular in the confines of the democratic party but it won't be popular in a red state like texas. take pennsylvania, this is a district held by a republican, won by hilary clinton, they nominate the most left wing guy running in the primary turns out to contributed $300,000 to organizations that support disinvestment in israel and it is -- the district has the 38th
highest percentage of concentration of jewish voters of any district in the country. so yeah, look, it matters that you stand for something. but if what you stand for something is hard left politics, and you're running in sort of middle america, then the democratic party is not going to win as many seats as it might otherwise have won. paul: one of the things we have seen over the last 12 months is the democrats have outperformed what you would have had expectations for voter turnout. that's generated by enthusiasm. a lot of is we saw this in virginia in particular is antitrump enthusiasm. why isn't the best democratic argument were to be simply something like this, we are going to put a check on president trump. you want checks and balances? the republicans aren't doing it. we're going to put the check on trump. >> that would be a good strategy, but instead they've got for the people and increasing numbers of their candidates are defining their agenda by adopting left wing
positions, medicare for all, free college, guaranteed jobs and so forth. but you're right. if they ran a sort of centrist, you know, we're going to work together, republicans and democrats to achieve good things for the country, we're relatively moderate centrist liberal democrats, we're not nuts calling for impeachment. we're not calling for the overthrow of the government. they could win a lot of seats, but that's not the kind of candidates they are nominating in some critical races. but you're right, if they were smart, that's what they would do. take, for example, your old stomping grounds, wisconsin, a left winger running in wisconsin won. it turns out to not only be left wing but turns out to be a deadbeat who couldn't either pay back loans to his former wife or pay his child support payments, but he sounded good to democrats in that district because he was the most left wing. paul: all right, karl, we will see how this evolves in the coming months. thanks for coming in. still ahead, president trump doubling down on auto tariff threats, despite growing
opposition from lawmakers and industry leaders. so can eu officials work out a deal with the administration when they come to washington next week?
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start your used car search and get free carfax reports at the all-new carfax.com. >> they are going to be coming on july 25th to negotiate with us. we said if we don't negotiate something fair, then we have tremendous retribution, which we don't want to use, but we have tremendous powers. we have to. including cars. paul: that was president trump wednesday promising tremendous retribution if his meeting with the european union officials next week doesn't result in what he considers fairer trade deals. the president is scheduled to sit down wednesday with european commission president amid administration threats to slap tariffs on imported cars and auto parts. but resistance to the tariffs is growing work a co -- growing, with a coalition of foreign and
domestic companies, dealers and autopart makers, asking the president not to move forward with the penalties. a bipartisan group of nearly 150 lawmakers urging the commerce secretary to back away from the tariffs. we're back with bill, mary, and jason. so bill, there's a school of thought that says -- has said for sometime, the president's trade threats are really just a negotiating ploy, that he will back away at the end and it won't go ahead. i'm increasingly of the belief that he really wants this kind of a tariff war, and he really wants to stick it to german automobiles. what do you think? >> i hope not. i mean, the problem with trade wars is there are a lot of innocent bystanders that get hurt. you don't always know those costs. i think what you see especially with the european union reaction is when you make these threats, they're more than willing to come back and do the same thing to us. you know, there's not a lot of quiet players.
the chinese would probably prefer to work out a deal quietly with us. but you get into it with the european union, it is like a game of chicken with a truck bearing down on you. paul: jason, the germans, in particular, seem to be his target. he has an obsession -- i don't think that's too strong a word -- were german cars. -- with german cars. [laughter] paul: sounds like he's determined to do it. >> i think he is determined to do it. you have to take him at his word. he's campaigned on this and something he's determined to follow through on for better or worse, mostly for worse i think. particularly in states that helped elect him, paul. that's one of the things that's hard to figure out here, whether it's cars or aluminium or farm products. you have companies like alcoa, aluminium maker, their shares are tumbling because they import from canada. that's gotten more expensive. alcoa is based in pittsburgh. trump won pennsylvania. iowa farmers traveling over to china trying to preserve deals there that have been harmed due
to the chinese trade war. trump won iowa. is this what those voters signed up for? paul: alcoa is a company that was supposed -- an american aluminium maker. it is the kind of company that trump said the tariffs would help. in the earnings call this week, you have them saying the tariffs are hurting. their earnings are down 15% or so. so i guess -- and you see this with the domestic companies and the foreign automakers who invest here. everybody really except for the united autoworkers which has i would say issued tepid support for the tariffs, but everybody else against it. can trump still move ahead in the face of that opposition? >> well, i think it depends on what happens to the stock market, paul. the one indicator that he watches very closely. look, the largest plant in the world is in spartanburg, south carolina, a district that trump won with more than 60%. now, we haven't seen the effects of these tariffs on the markets, but i think when that happens, trump is going to wake up.
now, on the european side, my question is, do the europeans get it yet? because they didn't believe that trump would pull out of the paris climate change agreement. they didn't believe he was going to pull out of the iran deal. they didn't believe he was going to put tariffs on. so if i were sitting in brussels, i would be coming to washington with something to offer trump, whether it's a loosening of i don't know, agricultural tariffs. paul: no, that is not going to work. car tariffs it's got to be. it's got to be on automobiles, and it's got to be at a minimum it would seem to me essentially the same rate on tariffs, and i'm not sure even that is going to work because the germans are going to say, you have a 20% tariff on trucks here. >> i don't know about that, paul. i think if the europeans came with a deal to trump and they could both stand up and proclaim victory and walk away -- paul: yeah, but it has to be on cars. >> i think both sides would be happy. paul: my point is it has to be on cars. it can't be farm products. >> one other point we're making
is other countries seem willing to move on and make deals without us. japan and the eu have gotten together to cut deals without the u.s. we lose out economically in cases like that, but we also lose out in terms of influence in the region. there's much more at stake here than simply cars and tariffs. paul: bill, what about the danger here that this now becomes also a currency war? the president lashed out this week at the falling yuan and the falling euro because of the strong dollar. i don't think he understands that one of the reasons the dollar is so strong is because so much foreign capital coming here because of the tax reform and the deregulation and faster growth. >> it is a vote of confidence in his policies; right? got to know who your friends are. look, i think mary makes a good point when she pointed out about the bmw plants over here. i mean, today what is an american car? what is -- it is such a multifacetted thing. it reminds me for many years, for about 20 years, there was a dumping suit by brother typewriter japanese company building typewriters in america
against smith corona, an american company building typewriters in asia. it just ended. it's just ridiculous. paul: i still have mine, bill, i have you know. i don't know where that was made, but very stylish portable typewriter. i took it on the road in asia. still ahead, google is slapped with a record fine as the european union accuses the tech giant of antitrust violations. what it means for google and its competitors, when we come back. (harmonica interrupts) how they could save 15% or more by... (harmonica interrupts) ...by just calling or going online to geico.com. (harmonica interrupts) (sighs and chuckles) sorry, are you gonna... (harmonica interrupts) everytime. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.
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operating system. andy kessler writes the inside view column for the "wall street journal" and he's founder of the silicon valley hedge fund velocity capital. andy, great to see you. thanks for coming in. what do you make of the eu's fine this week and the charges against google? >> well, the fine itself is irrelevant. you look at the numbers, 830 billion dollars market cap, 100 billion in cash, 13 billion in profits last year. that's not the problem. it is the concept of they are annoyed about 11 apps they installed including maps and search and assistance trying to say that's anticompetitive. but google, android, it is a platform. it is a platform for others to compete on. lyft versus uber and spotify versus pandora. it is a wonderful competitive environment and they compete against apple. bureaucrats are bureaucrats so they had to do something. paul: they say look, when they go to a handset maker and they say if you want to use android, you have to put these -- our apps, google maps, youtube,
first. >> sure. paul: that's favoritism to google. >> well, yes, but you get the operating system for free rather than spending billions of dollars -- paul: develop your own, yeah. >> and samsung for example puts their own apps on there. users can hit delete and put their own apps on it. it is just like the pc business and the browser wars. in a sense it became obsolete almost at the time that microsoft got their hands slapped. paul: so you think they are looking through the rearview mirror here and technology will somehow make all of this irrelevant? >> yeah, i mean, phones have already peaked, right? i mean we're starting to look at what the next platform might be. but my issue is, if you're google, what do you do? they are going to appeal. they have appealed, that's fine. but you can't let the european commission of competition get away with it. if i was google, i would do the following. there's a billion plus android phones that ship every year. got to figure at least 100 million, probably multiple
hundred millions ship into europe. you can shut them off but then you are hurting yourself. instead what i would do is i would say okay, let's create an activation fee, $50, 50 euros and not payable to google but payable to the eu. you would have to write a check or -- paul: so the individual user of the android phone would have to pay the fee. >> yes, don't even let them do it electronically. make them go to a bank or a post office. this thing would blow over in a week. there would be such an uproar and it would never happen. paul: people would blame the eu and not google. >> exactly. paul: are you sure? >> yes, it is just like the tariffs. if there's a tariff on my imported mercedes-benz, if i had to pay that money to the u.s. government rather than to the dealer i would go what do you mean i have to pay? paul: let me ask you another issue about google, market cap almost 900 billion, astonishing, is there a problem in your mind from antitrust point of view in the way they use algorithms to steer users to certain kinds of content? for example, their content and advertisers that they want to
steer it to. >> sure, that was the other european fine they paid for steering people towards their shopping site. you know, it is better to have transparency, to have the algorithms so transparent that if you wanted to have your ad placed first, maybe you would pay more. it's always going to be an issue with platforms, but the more visibility there is -- and you don't see advertisers complaining. you see bureaucrats complaining. but you don't see advertisers complaining because they can get to users. the nice thing about google you know the effectiveness of your ad. if it doesn't work, you don't run it again. paul: i want to ask you as a market analyst, the big companies, the facebook, google, netflix, and apple have dominated the market. but you wrote an intriguing column this week saying that maybe the seeds of their decline are already planted. explain what you meant. >> well, on wall street, it is easy to buy a stock. i'm going to buy the stock.
it is going to be the next greatest thing but no one knows when to sell. i think you need an exit strategy. the day you buy it, you figure out what is going to go wrong eventually. you know, look at netflix. it blew up this week; right? the subscriber numbers were a million shy, and they took the stock down. when i look at the other ones some are more obvious than others. apple seeds of destruction or what we just talked about, is the phone market has kind of peaked. everyone has one. they don't wear out. similarly facebook, they have a problem in that you know they are at 2 point something billion users, doubled in five years. i don't think it is going to double again. they're not allowed in china. russia has competition for facebook. what happens as that growth rate kind of slows? investors get a little nervous and start running for the hills. paul: and that's what you've got to look for as an investor. when is the turn? >> you look for it the day you invest. and then you keep an eye on it. say what are the signs that i'm looking for? because stocks go up in euphoria; right?
google, amazon, every day the stock goes up. what is going to go wrong? so that you can be ahead of everyone else. paul: read andy's column to tell you when to do that by the way. thanks for being here. we have to take one more break. when we come back, hits and misses of the week. :: schwab, again? index investing for that low? that's three times less than fidelity... .. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management.
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>> 3 quarters of a hit to the republican senate for setting a record this week, 23 appellate court nominees confirmed, the most since george hw bush. on thursday they botched the nomination of ryan bounds in the ninth circuit for comp located reasons but a reminder with the brett kavanaugh confirmation this is a team sport when you have 50-49 majority you all got to show up. >> i'm giving a miss to turkey for its continued detention of american pastor andrew brunson who has been two years behind bars on trumped up charges. president erdogan is against him and other american hostages but i'm afraid they may have to
exact more leverage to get results. >> if you have your own hit or miss tweet it to us, that is it for this we show, thanks to all of you for watching. see you right here. >> fox news alert, special counsel robert mueller's team reach researching out to an ongoing witness in his in best litigation -- investigation, with close ties to donald trump. welcome to a brand-new hour of america's news headquarters. >> new developments unfold, the president is responding to a new revelation, michael cohen secrecy recorded a conversation with donald trump where they talked about payments to a former playboy model who had an affair with the president. the fbi is in possession of that
recording, donald trump saying, quote, inconceivable the government would break into a lawyer's office early in the morning. almost unheard of. more inconceivable that a lawyer would tape our client, totally unheard-of and perhaps illegal. the good news is your favorite president did nothing wrong. garrett tenney live in washington with more on it. >> reporter: the president slamming these developments but rudy giuliani suggesting this reporting helps the president. sources tell fox news in september 2016 michael cohen recorded a conversation with donald trump in which cohen suggested buying the rights to the story. a former playboy model, karen mcdougall, claimed she had an affair with mister trump in 2006. they claimed to do this to prevent those allegations from
becoming public before the election. rudy giuliani says no payment was made and suggested to the wall street journal that this recording shows he wasn't trying to hide the payment because he was open to making the payment by check telling the paper, quote, it helps us rather than hurts us. you don't do any form of illegal tax or campaign-finance violation by check. separately special counsel robert mueller reaching out known to the manhattan madam as the investigation into russian election meddling and possible ties to the trump campaign. kristin davis was charged for running a high end prostitution ring in new york city. as tmc reported that special counsel's office is interested in davis because her close ties to long-term trump advisor roger stone, long a person of interest in that investigation. last night on cnn he believes mueller is on a fishing expedition for anything to use against him.
while the special counsel's office -- >> she had been an associate of mine for ten years. someone i have great affection for. i am the godfather to her son. she is a single parent, she is now in the cosmetology business. >> mister mueller has had full access to my email and is well aware there is no evidence whatsoever. >> reporter: the special counsel is not commenting on the latest report. davis would be the latest in a long line of folks tied to roger stone. >> donald trump facing bipartisan backlash from lawmakers following his summit in helsinki with russian president vladimir putin but despite the criticism from some inside the beltway a new paul finds 60% of republicans
approved of the president's performance. how will this payout in a midterm election year? let's bring in the political battle, a former advisor to the barack obama presidential campaign, kevin sheridan a former senior advisor to the romney ryan 2012 bid and former communications director, good to see you. how worried are you about a helsinki hangover in the midterm election? is there danger? >> there is honest in the party about it and you heard members of congress speak up and restate their positions on russia, that russia is a menace to our country that did middle in the election. there is no collusion necessarily with trump but that doesn't mean they aren't a problem. republicans spoke up. i don't think it will last through to november for the simple fact there are 10,000 news cycles between now and then. republicans are asking why is
donald trump bringing vladimir putin to the white house? it is not clear what the goal of that meeting would be. maybe he has a second meeting and is much stronger with him in person. we will have to see. >> a lot of republican lawmakers on capitol hill do not like having michael cohen stuck in their face, asked about donald trump's performance in helsinki. is that your sense? >> i think it is. i agree with what kevin said. you have reciprocal views, 32% of americans approve, 68% don't approve of donald trump's handling of the putin summit, 60% of republicans approved, they looking from opposite and equal perspectives, a drop-down from the 80% or 90% support donald trump has had in the party. i suspect there are time delays. it is insidious, it is additive. trump has had two big issues that have hurt him, separation
of families with relation to immigration and the vladimir putin summit. there needs to be something else in the economy. >> to your point the news cycles change so rapidly. it is possible helsinki might be a distant memory by november. >> democrats could play this better if they have a better message about the economy. they don't have a good argument what they are running for other than to be a check on donald trump which will be effective for some people but ultimately might not be enough. they are moving hard to the left. there establishment is devoid of any real argument so basically adopted this identity politics and the socialist emerging where all the energy is in the party. neither of those options are particularly appealing for voters and i don't think they are playing this as well as they could. a somewhat unpopular president
but they are not popular either. >> what about the potential of trump putin summit 2.0 at the white house on donald trump's turf, could that barry the helsinki meeting if donald trump is tough for the second time? >> he has to have a better showing on the second meeting and i think he will. i think he learned his lesson, found where the line is and you have to stand up strong to vladimir putin. no matter what you think the unfair coverage of the press and questions about the election he conflates the two in his mind, they are two different things, russia did middle, russia is a threat to the united states and has been for twee 7 years. the republican party has a lot of goodwill on this issue. republicans are the stronger party against russia going back to the cold war. he will be stronger i think. >> your thoughts on vladimir putin donald trump 2.0 at the white house? >> we will see. we have the mueller
investigation heating up, we will see what happens. trump has damaged himself. i don't agree the republicans have moved hard left, their wedding and reaction not necessarily, the issue with trump is most presidents since truman up to trump played within the 40 yard line. trump is in the end zone. we have an outlier president. we will see how that shows up in the polls. the economy will drive the messaging and local dynamics in terms of the midterms as we will see. a check and balance message by democrats is not enough to take the house. they need to make their own economic arguments, present their own economic leadership agenda. >> we have to leave it there, thank you for your time. >> dozens of groups holding a rally in los angeles demanding the city do more to protect asylum seekers and migrants as a federal judge says the trump administration is making, quote, great progress towards reuniting 2500 children separated from their parents at the southern
border. >> evil criminal to do that to the children. people have a right to ask for asylum. >> jeff paul is live in los angeles with the latest. >> reporter: hundreds marching through the streets of downtown los angeles to bring attention to the fact that immigrant families separated from their kids, also concern around the thursday deadline that ordered those families to be reunited. we look at this video, this group taking to the streets and taking a two lanes of traffic, hoping people see and hear their message. and realized immigration system is broken. they are sending a message to those across the border illegally and are living in fear. >> we are here in an immigrant community, and immigrant city and we need to show people in los angeles and the united states and around the world that we support immigrants, welcome
refugees and we want them here in our city and our country. >> reporter: as far as reunification a judge in san diego address those concerns during the court hearing friday. and said i'm very impressed with the effort being made. it really does appear there has been great progress toward reunification and the process is working, is on track and on time. even if they were separated, reunified with their families on thursday, they believe the immigration system needs an overhaul. >> fox news alert. we are learning what went wrong with a tourist boat capsized and sunk in a missouri lake killing 17 people. last night hundreds gathered at a vigil in branson, missouri to remember those victims.
>> you have wanted to feel like somebody cared about you. that is the biggest purpose for this, making sure people understand we are supporting them. share mac do you know if anyone on board was wearing a life vest? >> we know they weren't. the storm moved fast. ripples on the lake turned into waves that crashed over the bow of the ill-fated tour boat. 29 passengers in two crewmember's were told not to put on life vests. according to one survivor they were told they don't need them. >> this is where they are. don't worry about it. okay. when the cabin took over. i thought that at some point, grab the jacket now.
>> tia coleman is from a family of 11 the last we 9 people. her husband and three children are all gone. the president of the company that owns the duck boat says a microburst descended on them. the winds were 60 miles an hour. the video shows those two amphibious boats getting battered and taking on water. one of them ultimately slipped. you don't see that in the video but 17 people including the driver of the boat were killed. that duck boat is still in 80 feet of water where it rolled after taking 40 feet of water. the ntsb and coast guard taking over the investigation and we expect in a couple hours to get an update from the ntsb. >> this gives you a sense how horrified those people are. >> a cease-fire has been reached between hamas and israel after violence erupted in israel.
live report straight ahead. rising stars like alexandria ocasio-cortez resurging in a new wave of democratic socialism. >> what is exciting is the democratic party has an extraordinary candidate across the country. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. actually, that's super easy. my bad. that's super easy. when heartburn hits... fight back fast with tums smoothies. it neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum tum tum tum tums... smoothies... ...and introducing new tums sugar-free.
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xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. share mac hamas in gaza reach a cease-fire agreement with israel striking a number of hamas targets in gaza following the death of an israeli soldier near the border, 150 palestinians have been killed in protests at the border since march. ryan is live with the latest. >> an israeli tank fire into gaza earlier today but palestinians did not respond so this cease-fire remains in place but is already being tested clearly and this is the second cease-fire in less then a week. a precarious situation. what sparked the violence? the 150 deaths among palestinians for the last several months.
in addition, the israeli soldier killed on friday by a palestinian soldier, the first to die in a low-level conflict between israelis and palestinians for the past four years in addition to that, increasing news of so-called flaming kites. palestinian militants sending kites into israel over the fence and attached incendiary devices. when they hit israeli soil they catch fire inspector brushfires. no one has gotten hurt in these fires but they caused a lot of economic problems. the israelis have responded by tightening the blockade on israel. until now, the israelis prepared to use military action in response to this. this has the un secretary-general concerns, issuing a statement a short while ago in which he said i call on hamas and other palestinian militants to cease the launching of rockets and
incendiary kites along the fence and israel exercised restraint to keep from further inflaming the situation. israel and hamas have fought 3 wars in the last decade, the last one four years ago, the concern that the flareup that we had is frozen in a cease-fire could again blowup into a full-fledged war. mike: thanks very much. eboni: a number of democrats running for office reigniting talk of socialism within the democratic party. one of those young stars is socialist candidate alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york who rocketed to superstardom after knocking out the number one democrat in the house in a recent primary election. >> we have to have medicare for all. it doesn't stop here.
the movement is the right thing to do and we will fight as long as it takes to get there. mike: jillian turner has more. >> reporter: 42 men and women running for office. we have a formal endorsement of democratic socialists of america according to the associated press, they span 20 states and include florida, hawaii, michigan and kansas, the latest development the trump presidency hit the 18 month mark democratic socialism is becoming an increasingly powerful force in democratic politics. new faces laying out the organization's priorities more forcefully than ever before. >> we want to be a nation that allows improved and expanded medicare for all. we are a nation that will not stop until every child is born with the opportunity to go to college or trade school free of
cost and we will not rest until every person in this country is paid a living wage to lead a dignified life. >> reporter: they are clear who their friends and enemies are. >> we say to trump instead of showing us your strength by tearing children from their families, where was your strength in standing up to vladimir putin in russia? >> reporter: the organization and its political ideology operated on the fringes of the liberal movement's farthest left flank but now they have 45,000 dues paying members and making inroads into states and communities traditionally carried by the gop. >> they say the people of kansas don't want those things. they told me i would not be welcome. but you have proven them wrong.
>> reporter: this week ocasio-cortez and bernie sanders hit the campaign trail and today she is in missouri campaigning. eboni: we are going to bring in philip wegman, a writer for the washington examiner. thank you for joining us on a saturday. she beat joe crowley, a big time democrat in new york. in that jurisdiction, seems dianne feinstein is up against a real battle in california, so it looks like it might be effective. the question is does this work in middle america? karl rove had interesting thoughts on it. >> everything she says is going to be tested and candidates will be asked do you agree that israel has occupied palestine?
she has started to say things and candidates will be asked do you agree with that? eboni: is she the new kingmaker of the democratic party? >> she is the queen of queens in new york but what we are watching to see whether her democratic socialism can take root outside of new york and in the midwest. you have alexandria ocasio-cortez and bernie sanders pushing for candidates in the midwest right now but kansas hasn't set a democratic congress in over a decade. this is ambitious, very aggressive and if it works it is going to send a 10,000 bold jolt right up the spines of both establishment parties because this movement will not be going away if they are successful. eboni: is it that much of a formula? alabama not known for sending democratic senators to the nation's capital, but doug jones
is there. let's go with connor lamb in pennsylvania. many people didn't see that and they were a different kind of democrat then we see in alexandria. is a true all politics are local? >> when you look at alabama, those were circumstances with the roy moore situation and pennsylvania, there's an interesting parallel between the argument he made at the argument cortez is making. it shows an intellectual vacuum on the left because joe crowley was willing to repeat the same boilerplate talking points we hear from democrats all the time. instead cortez actually advanced a certain set of issues, not just sticking to an anti-trump shtick. this is alarming for democrats because while her very issue focused agenda works on the east coast, the question is whether
or not it suffocates in the midwest and other states that are much more red and much more focused on the economy. kansas, difficult to organize a proletariat there when the economy is booming and unemployment is at 3.4%, well below the national average. eboni: how do you see claire mccaskill on embracing a running away from cortez? >> she is running away as quickly as possible. already state democrats have to be worried about this. joe manchin or joe donnelly in indiana are guys who their entire argument is they are middle-of-the-road democrats willing to work with the president when he is right and split with him when he is wrong. eboni: but to those red state democrats run the risk of getting primary like joe crowley?
>> they are definitely the chosen sons for this november and this raised an interesting point. we are talking about what is happening in this current moment. alexandria ocasio-cortez represents not just politics for the next two years but for the next decade because the economy will not always be good and at moments like those, her appeal when it comes to democratic socialism is going to hit hard with young people and i don't think establishment republicans or democrats are prepared at all. eboni: when you are the change candidate that seems to work in your favor politically, hillary clinton, one of her downfalls was she seemed like the same, the establishment, in the vein of chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and joe crowley. i can see both sides of this but is it a risk that is worth taking for the democrats? >> reporter: it is a risk they are being forced to take. they saw what happened when the establishment tried to shut down
bernie sanders during the democratic primary in 2016. it did not work well for them and there were a lot of dissatisfied voters. a lot of base voters. whether they like it or not they have to accept alexandria ocasio-cortez into their ranks but they were forced to leap before they looked at her policies and like karl rove said earlier a lot of red state democrats will be hit over the head because of her positions. eboni: great to see you, thank you. mike: an american pastor held in turkey for two years on charges of terrorism and espionage. how the trump administration is intensifying a diplomatic push to secure his freedom but how the united states is pressuring members of the un security council to make kim jong-il and give up his nuclear weapons. >> no one was under any illusion this was going to happen, it will take time to achieve this
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>> the united states sending a message to the united nations but north korea will not receive really from sanctions until kim jong-il and gives up his nuclear program and putting pressure on china and russia district reinforce sanctions. ambassador nikki haley and mike pompeo -- mike pompeo during a joint briefing at the un. >> we can to do one thing until we see north korea respond to their promise to denuclearize. >> the path ahead is not easy, it will take time but our hopes for a safer world for all of us in a brighter future for north korea remains our objective. eboni: a research fellow at the eurasia group foundation, good to see you.
secretary of state mike pompeo trying to keep pressure on the north korean regime to keep the promises they made with a won't get sanctions relief. the impact? >> north korea response to one friend in that region, china. it is its lifeline. we need to keep a good cooperative relationship with china if we expect them to put ultimate pressure on north korea. the trade wars we are embarking on make that difficult but they have been reliable partner with the united states. mike: should us officials be concerned north korea is back to their pattern and making promises they never deliver on? >> don't think many people think kim jong un is a reliable consistent negotiator. no one will take him at his word. one of the things that has
created a sense of urgency for kim jong un to get a nuclear record is the record of regime change in iraq, saddam hussein being pooled out of a hole, he sees other leaders like moammar qaddafi attacked by a mob in a drainage ditch. he doesn't want to become like them. he wants to hold onto power, and a nuclear weapon is the ultimate deterrent for having the united states try to tackle his own regime. america's history of preventive wars has backfired and created the situation we are in. mike: what about what nikki haley is doing in china and russia on the un security council, a problem the us has been dealing with for some time. >> china and russia are forms in the side when it comes to cooperating with issues like this. north korea in their region don't see the same threat the united states sees, but pompeo needs to be careful in his language. when he says north korea made promises to the world that is
right, for all to see. but the rest of the world doesn't perceive this threat the way the united states does. we have to be realistic about that. mike: we talked about donald trump's visit with nato. share your thoughts about the trump visit. >> this will be in the boston globe tomorrow, thinking about whether nato and nato expansion happening over the years, to some extent created this sense is not just vladimir putin and his ilk that look at the united states and think we are being overaggressive. it is 18, 22, 25-year-old kids in russia we are alienating, the people who would be small the democrats in that country.
i don't think nato is as consequential as ultranationalist parties that are springing up in nato countries, our wealthy european allies. that is a threat to the european unity and democracy. more than russia is at this moment. mike: the president's approach by getting nato countries to spend more on defense, isn't that making nato stronger? >> i think it will. this kind of burden sharing has been a policy of the united states owing back to the obama administration, trying to get allies to chip in more money as well, a different diplomatic strategy in doing that. they were not scolding publicly, this is what i, neck the bassoonist style where you have public displays of aggression and affection. it doesn't always end well because these political leaders, heads of state donald trump is meeting with have their own
constituencies and if they are perceived as doing the us's bidding, doing this a little more surreptitiously behind closed doors. might be in the president's interests for sure. >> i have been to afghanistan and see nato troops alongside americans and some americans -- they don't do the same heavy lifting we did. they helped the united states after 9/11. does nato have value going forward? >> absolutely. the rationale for nato existing, keep america in, keep rush out, keep germany down, an obsolete mission but in terms of getting incentives for european countries, and corruption, that is a worthy thing, article 5 of nato, if you treat an attack on
one country like an attack on everybody, the only time that was invoked was after 9/11. it has served the united states interests. there needs to be a critical reevaluation of the role for nato and what his rationale is in the post-cold war era. mike: a pleasure picking your brain. >> thank you for having me on. eboni: the search for a suspect in the murder of a police officer comes to a end in hawaii but officers are not able to make an arrest. supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh complete another step in his confirmation process as democrats deploy another method to stop his nomination. we talk to a former clerk for brett kavanaugh next. >> judge brett kavanaugh deserves the support of every member of the united states senate and should be confirmed to the supreme court of the united states. an energy company helping cars emit less.
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>> a man suspected of coming down the police officer in hawaii during a shootout with law enforcement. after a 3-day search across the islands, shot and wounded during the shot out and the police officer following the traffic stop earlier this week. >> donald from calling for the release of an american pastor held in turkey on charges of terrorism and espionage, and faces 35 years in prison if found guilty. the child is one of many legal cases that raised tensions between the us and turkey. >> there has been enormous work by this administration to gain the release of pastor brunson. we are working on that case and every place in america has helped.
eboni: lauren green has more. >> reporter: brunson was denied freedom again after another hearing, brunson was remanded behind bars in a turkish prison. >> translator: this case is at risk of turning into a legal shame on turkey's hands. >> reporter: the 50-year-old is charged with committing crimes on behalf of the terror group and espionage, facing 35 years in a turkish prison, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle call the case a sham saying the evangelical pastor is a political pond. >> i saw all accounts spelled out, nothing that would keep somebody in jail overnight in the us judicial system. >> reporter: the north carolina native who lived there for two decades was killed after a failed coup attempt. turkey alleges brunson had
linked to a us-based email who they believe orchestrated the failed overthrow of president erdogan's government. the trump administration doubling down on efforts to bring back the pastor, donald trump talked to president erdogan by phone this week. this is train us turkish relations, lawmakers looking at possible sanctions. >> the fact they have pastor brunson and other americans imprisoned on charges that don't hold water calls into question our relationship so there are actions we can take in congress. i hope it won't be necessary. >> reporter: the next court date is scheduled for october. the state department hopes to work out an arrangement with turkey that will allow the christian pastor to be released before then. mike: we should a poll about reactions to the trump vladimir
putin summit in finland, the 68% supporting donald trump's performance is among republicans, not the general population. we are sorry about that. the battle over the next supreme court justice heating up on capitol hill, brett kavanaugh handing in his questionnaire to lawmakers, why democrats are demanding more records about the nominee before his confirmation hearing. liberty mutual accident forgiveness means they won't hike your rates over one mistake. see, liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ ♪ keep it comin' love. if you keep on eating, we'll keep it comin'. all you can eat riblets and tenders at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.
just so we're clear about what senator feinstein is talking about, expensive career from brett kavanaugh, for secretary george w. bush's white house and was part of the 2000 presidential election recount process and part of the kenneth starr bill clinton probe among other things. that is some of what she is referring to. 1 million documents, back in 2010, for nomination, 170,000 plus last year, neil gorsuch with 180,000 plus. what is your reaction why million documents? >> we have never seen a number anywhere close to this. there are more documents produced for brett kavanaugh than ever in history, and people
in dc, chuck schumer, and senator grassley and mcconnell, 1 million documents or 2 million documents and that is the kind of thing politicians love to fight about. and what is already public is judge cavanagh's record on the second most important court in the country, opinion after opinion document after document shows his independence, evenhandedness and a brilliant legal mind at work. eboni: they are not looking for his opinions as you say accurately, those are made available. i am going to reframe this for us. let's go with this premise. if it is not a legitimate scope of who the judge really is from a legal standpoint, say it is a political tactic, some people are saying it. the you think that is wise of
the democrats if it is their plan to delay the confirmation post the start of a session which is october 1st, democrats maybe don't want that. is that smart on their part? >> i'm not a political expert but if you compare brett kavanaugh to alayna kagan, john roberts, he is in a different position they are because he has had 12 years on the second lowest court in the country, alayna kagan a brilliant attorney but never a judge before, john roberts a very smart attorney who had barely been a judge. we didn't know as much about john roberts and alana kagan but we know about judge cavanagh, 12 years, second most appointed. eboni: some democrats say we need to slow everything down
with brett kavanaugh because he is a trump nominee and as we have seen with trump ron nominees in the news for federal judgeships, like ryan downs, was rescinded but tell me how you see brett kavanaugh versus another trump appointee. >> it is very different. brett kavanaugh has been confirmed by the senate in 2016 for his current judgeship. there should not be as many questions what kind of person this is and i also think when it comes to a new nominee to the court, whether it is ryan downs or alana kagan if they haven't been a judge before we look at their past and figure out what kind of judge they are going to be but with brett kavanaugh we know what kind of judge he will be, for 12 years already and 200 opinions show he is a fantastic judge, the most qualified
nominee to the supreme court in a generation or two. eboni: it is no easy feat to be a judicial clerk. you have done it at the highest level. the supreme court and brett cavanagh. tell me what you observed, the type of judge we are talking about? >> you have a legal background. you will appreciate seeing brett kavanaugh day in and day out, impeccable character who cares a lot what the law means, what the text means, history and precedent, does it without passion or prejudice. i know brett kavanaugh very well, he has been a mentor to me and every one of his 48 clerks. the more america learns about this great judge and this good man the more they will want to
see him on the supreme court. eboni: thanks for joining us. that does it for us but the news continues at the top of the hour after this short break and -- >> i will see you back here at 7:00 eastern. ♪ what about him? let's do it. ♪ come on.
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