Transcripts For CNNW Wolf 20170110 18:00:00

Difference of opinion on immigration legislation that weve put forward. Youve had different ideas. I have no doubt that as Attorney General, youll faithfully execute the office. I appreciate the answers that you have given today. Unanimous consent to submit a column written by our own Attorney General in arizona, Mark Burnovich for the hill. Without objection it will be included. Supporting your nomination. Let me talk to you about an aspect of immigration thats important in arizona. As you know, we have a large border with mexico. We have a program called Operation Streamline that has over the years been tremendously effective in cutting down recidivism in terms of border crossers. Its intended to reduce Border Crossing by expeditiously prosecuting those who enter the country illegally over a no tolerance or Zero Tolerance policy. Its credited with being instrumental in achieving better Border Security specifically in the yuma sector along the western side of arizonas border with mexico. Nevertheless, in recent years, the u. S. Attorneys office for the district of arizona adopted a policy that he wanted prosecutions for those that cross but for, well, without Criminal History other than simply crossing the border. I have asked Attorney General Holder and Attorney General lynch as well as Secretary Johnson at Homeland Security on what is being done here, and i havent gotten a straight answer. No matter how many times i ask the question, so im looking forward to a little more candor here as Attorney General if you are confirmed what steps will you take to restore operation streamline to a Zero Tolerance approach thats been so successful in arizona . A portion of arizonas border. Zoo thank you. Senator flank, i have enjoyed working with you, and i know the integrity with which you bring your views on the immigration system. Like you, i believe that streamline was very effective, and it was really a surprise that its been undermined and significantly. The reports i got initially some years ago, maybe a decade or so ago is it was dramatically effective. I would absolutely review that, and my inclination would be at least at this stage is it should be restored and made sure its lawful and effective, but i think it has great positive potential to improve legality at the border. Well, thank you. Its been effective at yuma,and i can tell you theres concern there on the sheriffs office, Sheriffs Will Dumont and others concerned that were seeing an increase in Border Crossings simply because of cartels understand very well what where theres a Zero Tolerance policy and where there is not. Word spreads. We can quickly get to the is there any reason why we havent expanded this program to the tucson sector if its been successful elsewhere . I dont know what reason that might be. It seems to me that we should examine the successes and see if they cant be replicated throughout the border. All right. Well, thank you. Look forward to working with you on that. I appreciate that opportunity to work with you on that because i have long felt its the right direction for us to go. Thank you. We have a successful program, then its difficult to see it scrapped and to see the progress thats been made in certain parts of the border done away with. Let me get to another subject here. Victims rights. This is an area of the law that you have shown particularly interest in over your time as a senator. I have with me letters of support for your nomination from various victims groups and advocates. The victims of crime and leniency. Victims and Friends United op ed by professors paul cassel and steve twist all in support of your nomination. I would ask that these documents be placed for the record. As Attorney General, what steps will you take to insure that Victims Rights are protected . Cannot forget Victims Rights. We have a victim witness legislation that creates within each United States Attorneys Office a victim Witness Coordinator and the job of that person is to make sure that concern of the victims are he d prosecutors and Law Enforcement officers, but also the bureau of you will lead not only department of prosecutors and Law Enforcement officials, but also the bureau of prisons. Youll be responsible for 190,000 federal inmates currently in custody. This is an often overlooked part of the Attorney Generals role, but its important part of the position that youll be nominated for. I believe one of the highlights in your record in the senate is your leadership in passing the prison rape elimination act of 2003, it or pria, which passed both chambers without objection and was signed into law by george w. Bush. This was a bipartisan bill. You worked across the aisle with the late Senator Kennedy as well as with republican representative frank wolf, democrat representative bobby scott in the house. I have letters of support from antiprisonrate rape activists that i would also like to be part of the record without objection if i could. Thank you. The prison actually do get prosecuted was a real step forward. We do not need to Subject Prisoners to any more punishment than the law requires. Thank you. Just remaining seconds i have let me say theres another area that we have worked on and hopefully can continue to work on, and thats the area of duplicative doj grants. As you know, Department Awarded approximately 17 billion in grants over the years brrn oij reports, have all shown theres duplication and waste. Sometimes fraud and abuse. We continue to commit to work to root out this kind of duplicative action there. Well, i know you have had a history of being a staunch defender of the treasury and those that abuse it. I believe its the same way. Its the taxpayers money. Every dlaer thats extracted from an american sit zblin that goes into the government needs to get to productive valuable activities. It is a cause of great concern. I will make it a priority of mine to make sure that the dollars we have are actually getting to the purposes theyre supposed to go for. Its one thing to say i did a great thing. I got more money for this good purpose, but did it really efficiently and effectively go there. Did it really make a positive difference . I think the Department Of Justice can utilize the Grant Programs to help valuable activities and it needs to guard against improper activities. Thank you, Senator Sessions. Well break for about 30 minutes and reconvene at 1 40. Senator comens would be next up, and he has indicated he will be here on time. Adjourn, recess for now. The Senate Judiciary committee now in recess. 30 minute lurchl we just heard from the chairman Chuck Grassley make that announcement. Hel hello. Im wolf blitzer. Im jake tapper. Its 1 00 p. M. Here in washington d. C. Thank you for joining us. Its been a very, very intriguing, important several hours, jake, that weve been listening to Jeff Sessions, the senator from alabama who has been nominated to become the Attorney General of the United States. I want to start off quickly and play this little clip. He announce reasonable doubt that if there were any Legal Proceedings to go against, the former democratic president ial candidate Hillary Clinton, he would recuse himself. In light of those comments that you made, some have expressed concern about whether you can approach the clinton matter impartially in both fact and appearance. How do you plan to address those concerns . I do believe that that could place my objectivity in question. I have given that thought. I believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary clinton that were raised during the campaign. Or could be otherwise connected to it. This country does not punish its political enemies, but this country insures that no one is bottom of the law. Very intriguing the way he said that. It was a bold moment. He said he would recuse himself. Some of the other things that he tried to make clear were that even if he opposed laws that had been passed, he would abide by them. Whatever his personal feelings, he thinks that samesex marriage is the law of the land. President trump has said and talked about how he would protect the rights of Lgbt Americans going forward. Roe v. Wade he said also is staging little Mock Confirmation Hearings at the trump transition office. Weve got an excellent panel here thats going to help us better appreciate what we just heard. Associate editor of real clear politics, a. B. Stoddard. Justice correspondent pamela brown, april ryan, White House Correspondent Washington Bureau chief for American Urban Radio Networks, cnn Political Comme commentators chuck hyde and simone sanders. Pamela brown, you cover the Justice Department for us. Your immediate thoughts . First, when it comes to torture, he was asked about waterboarding, which, of course, we heard trump talk about on the trail saying he wanted to bring that back, and sessions did not mince words. He said its illegal. It is improper. That is the way the congress has voted. That presents an interesting situation there depending on what trump wants to do when he takes the white house and his top Law Enforcement officer views it that way. We talked about the muslim ban. Again, something that trump talked about on the trail. He says that he opposes that, and its clear that he is taking i am not naive. I know the threat that our rising crime and addiction rates pose to the health and safety of our country. I know the threat of terrorism. I deeply understand the history of civil rights in our country and the horrendous impact that relentless and systemic discrimination and the denial of Voting Rights has had on our africanamerican brothers and sisters. I have witnessed it. That was in his opening statement. He clearly came prepared to try to diffuse what had hurt him so badly in 1986. Whats so interesting is that was initially not in his opening statements. Were told from a source that this morning he woke up, and he felt very compelled to confront what happened in 1986 with the failed judgeship. He felt like it was important to make it clear to the people and to the people there in that room that he is not a racist, that this was a characterure of him and that it was false and so he added those comments and those comments about that back in this morning, wolf. Jeff, when you take a look at the bottom line, its very, very hard for a United States senator sitting colleague of Senator Sessions to come out against them, but some will. Some will, without a doubt, and i would not be surprised at the end of the day if this is maybe largely on party lines, but i think one of the biggest differences here is if he was not a sitting United States senator, this hearing would be entirely different. The proceedings would be different. Senator dianne feinstein, of course, the ranking democrat on the committee, pointed out that, you know, he is the candidate for Attorney General. Were not talking about his Senate Record here, but the reality here is that those strong relationships that he has with republicans and some democrats is going to play a key role in virtually all of this. They are giving him the benefit of the doubt. You saw Susan Collins introducing him and basically saying what happened 30 years ago isnt as relevant as right now. Yes, he is going to have tough questions. More tomorrow probably than today. One other people are giving their sides of this, but he is a u. S. Senator, and that helps him immensely. Senator al franken, the one nonlawyer on the Senate Judiciary committee, basically accused Senator Sessions of inflating his procivil Rights Record, suggesting that desegregation School Desegregation cases that he had claimed to have been in charge of, that he first overstated how many there were and then basically he was taking credit for work that he really didnt have much to do with other than he was the u. S. Attorney or the Attorney General of the state of alabama. It was kind of a strong charge to make. Yes, it was interesting. Sessions actually did back down a bit. He said that he wasnt as involved, and their number wasnt as high as it was originally stated, but that he didnt do anything wrong. I think whats interesting as franken went after his character, most Everyone Else was sticking to Policy Differences. Democrats have huge Policy Contrasts with Senator Sessions and the Department Of Justice will change radically from the Obama Department of justice. I think it was strong of him to so strongly defend himself against the 1986 event when he was passed over for the judgeship to defend himself against charges of being racially insensitive so that they can move on to Policy Differences and not be in so that he is not vulnerable to character attacks. I think democrats waste their time if they go after him on this. Theres so much on sentencing, on immigration, on Voting Rights and civil rights for them to actually question him about and create contrast with him about that they should probably stay away from the issues of 30 years ago. You saw just as jeff was saying, you saw the senators just in such a defer he shall crouch, they would the democrats would start by saying, well, we talked about this in our meeting together. Ill just throw that question out there first. He had done a great job of talking them through these issues long before the lights were on. Stro i dont think he is getting dick durbins vote. He made it clear that the casm between the two when it came to immigration reform, specifically what you do with the socalled dreamers, the 800,000 people brought here illegally when they were children through the no fault of their own, durbin wants them to be given citizenship ultimately, and sessions, it sounded like, has a fairly hard Line Position on it. It shows how well prepared he is, and its not just in trump tower where theyve been practicing for this. Its in the senate buildings. Its also at the Republican National committee, private organizations like america rising. They are all preparing not just Jeff Sessions for this, but a team to move his nomination forward. Democrats are obviously doing the same on the opposite side. What were seeing is the tip of the iceberg on this. It looked as if he was prepared anticipating almost every question that came up where. He was anticipating every question, but the issue is he is giving answers, but theres more to get into the weeds about. Particularly when it came to issues of Voting Rights. 30 years ago does matter where, to hear some people in congress, in and some senators wanting to testify against him about things that he said that naacp is unamerican, that is a real issue. He denies that. He denies it and he said he abhors the kkk. He said he does abhor the kkk. He said that. He did put to death under his watch leader of the kkk. Right. Now, lets go into this piece. The Voting Rights piece, which is interesting. His state right now is in the middle of this Voting Rights issue. Many of the alabama Motor Vehicle offices were moved out of urban areas. People had to go to drivers licenses to get to the polls. Here he is saying, oh, he plooefz in voter id, and then they just came up with an agreement with the Department Of Transportation to fix this problem, and this is the devil is in the details. This is the first time in 15 years that people have not seen the full enforcement of the Voting Rights act, and there is still a problem. If they get into that piece, that is a big piece. Then criminal justice. It almost sounds like he was in a different stand than President Elect donald trump. Donald trump says he is putting more of a focus on supporting the police, but now we heard sessions say, yes, we support police but also he supports kplooint Community Policing, which is a big piece in the urban community to help stop much of this tension, which is considered once the tension happens, its considered a National Security issue from jay johnson, the head of Homeland Security. The issue is donald trump really has put a focus on supporting police and now he is talking about Community Policing and also making police more responsible if there is something that happened. Its an interesting dynamic today. When you watch this hearing and obviously jeff pointed out if this were just Alabama Attorney general Jeff Sessions or u. S. Attorney Jeff Sessions, there would probably be more hostility and aggressiveness towards him. Whats your response . How do you think he hangdsed himself understanding that you disagree with a lot of his positions . I mean, i think he handled himself well. I think some of the questioning was soft. If you will, in a lot of instances. This was just the first half. We have a whole other afternoon of this, and then tomorrow well see testimony from folks like cornell brooks, the current president of the naacp, the oldest and boldest Civil Rights Organization in america. We will hear testimony from senator booker. Lots of folks who will offer some color and Additional Details to what we heard Senator Sessions say today. I was shocked when Senator Sessions said that he basically thought that voter id was okay if the laws were written well, but also noted that, oh, but as Attorney General if he was to be confirmed as Attorney General, he would have to look at all the legal aspects, but personally thats how he feels. I am shocked that no one pressed him to allude that he is saying that he wouldnt take his personal feelings about voter id into the office as Attorney General. Again, i think he had some soft questioning. I think folks really like Jeff Sessions, and they this is their colleague. If he is not confirmed, guess what, he is coming back to the senate, and nobody wants to make an enemy. He has cosponsored lots of helpful legislation, but the fact of the matter is we have to question on the merits of his policy and, you know, what he stands for and what kind of department he would put together. I dont think thats all the way broken through. Heres an exchange. Senator sessions had with senator dianne feinstein, who says the new ranking democrat on the judiciary committee. The issue of abortion and samesex marriage. Listen to this. I think we have that clip ready to go right now. You have referred to roe v. Wade as one of the worst colossally Erroneous Supreme Court decisions of all time. Is that still your view . It is. I believe its it violated the constitution and really attempted to set policy and not follow law. It is the law of the land. It has been so established and settled for quite a long time. It deserves respect, and i would respect it and follow it. Five justices on the Supreme Court, the majority of the court, has established the definition of marriage for the entire United States of america, and i will follow that decision. Jeffrey tubbin, our senior legal analyst. Someone who is opposed to roe v. Wade, very strongly, jeff, says roe v. Wade, it is the law of the land. It has been so established. It has been settled for quite a long time, and then he said it deserves respect. Similar words as far as samesex marriage are concerned. That was significant coming from Senator Sessions. It is significant, but it also leaves a lot of room for the Justice Department to take and support steps that restrict the right to abortion. The Obama Administration Justice Department was very aggressive in saying to states that we do not believe under the constitution you can establish barriers to Abortion Rights in setting up rules for clinics, rules for doctors that make it difficult. This administration is going to be very different. It is true that the ultimate decision will not be challenged yet by this administration, but, remember, there is already one Supreme Court vacancy. One of the leading candidates for this vacancy is the Attorney General of arizona of alabama, who followed Jeff Sessions as Attorney General of alabama. Now a federal judge, bill pryor. He, too, thinks roe v. Wade was a terrible decision, and if he is nominated and confirmed, he can actually do something about it. Yes, this Attorney General if he is confirmed will not directly attack it, but the federal government can do a lot to restrict Abortion Rights and President Elect trump has made clear thats a priority for his administration. We have more analysis coming up from jeffrey tubbin. I want you to stand by. Our senior political reporter manu raju is just outside. Room where Senator Sessions has been testifying in this Confirmation Hearing. He has a special guest with him. Manu. Thanks. Im here with Senator Chris Goose from delaware. About to ask. What do you want to hear from Senator Sessions . What i want to hear from Senator Sessions, clear and concise answers to a number of questions ive got about his actions as alabamas Attorney General, about his actions as u. S. Senator. Blocking bipartisan criminal Justice Reform efforts, blocking bipartisan efforts to outlaw the use of torture, and some of his historic involvement in the Civil Rights Movement both in his Home State Of Alabama and what he has done as a senator and what he might or might not do as Attorney General. Weve had a very full morning. Its been many hours since we started at 9 30. He has answered a lot of questions. In my view the American People deserve a really full and fair hearing for their next potential next Attorney General. This morning he also said that his critics, especially back in the 1980s, were trying to paint a characterure of him on the issue of race. Do you buy that . Do you think his critics were trying to paint a characterure of him back in the 1980s, and do you believe that he has a strong civil Rights Record . What matters to me is his Voting Record as a senator and the things i have been able to work with him and not been able to work with him on in the six years weve served together in the senate. There were two issues we worked well together on. I appreciate that. There were many, many others where we werent and where our values and priorities are quite different. Youve heard many different senators ask questions about immigration, about civil liberties, about civil rights, about russian cyber hacking, and about some of the claims made in the trump campaign. I look forward to continuing that line of questioning. Before i let you go, are you leaning yes or no on Jeff Sessions right now if you were to vote for him, yes or no . The whole point of skrg a hearing thats going to last all day today and another hearing that will last all day tomorrow is to make up my mind after i have heard all the evidence. I have a number of questions based on his record and based on some of the things he said today. I have more questions, not fewer. Senator, thanks for talking with us. Back to you. All right. Manu and senator chris kuhns. Still to come, were going to have much more on the Confirmation Hearing of senator Jeff Sessions. Thoughts on a potential ban on muslims entering the u. S. Also were keeping a close eye on another hearing on capitol hill. This one regards the intel regarding the russia hack and we are just a few hours away from President Obamas last big speech as president of the United States. Were live from chicago with a preview coming up next. You do all this research on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. Your Insurance Company raises your rates. Maybe you shouldve done more research on them. For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise your rates due to your first accident. And if you do have an accident, our claims centers are available to assist you 24 7. Call for a free quote today. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Welcome back. Were awaiting the turn of the Confirmation Hearing for senator Jefferson Boregard session iii, nominee for u. S. Attorney general. Were keeping an eye on the intel Briefing Regarding the russia hacking. Well update ow that throughout the hour. First, President Obama, he is set to give his Farewell Address to the nation later on tonight in chicago. Our White House Correspondent Michelle Kazinski is joining us from the site in chicago. Give us a preview, michelle. Yeah, this is a goodbye as well as a homecoming. He is coming back to this city, his hometown, you could say, where his political career began. This is important to him, obviously. Some people will line up 14 hours before this speech will begin. Theres an anticipatory thing right now. This is something that he has been working on now for at least a week or so. Its been through several drafts. He wants to get this right. He doesnt want to focus on listing his accomplishments. Whenever he makes the public address, but they want this to be different. They want it to be forwardlooking and optimistic. When you look back to past president s, Farewell Addresses, they always give a sort of cautionary advice to the next administration. George w. Bush talked about continuing to fight for truth and justice. To keep up fiscal responsibility in the world. The white house says that President Obama is going to follow that theme. He is going to look challenges that america faces moving forward, and he is going to give his share of advice on how best to face. They say that he is going to focus on american values, on fairness, justice, and diversity. Still ahead, were getting ready for the return of the Confirmation Hearings for senator Jeff Sessions. Take a look at these live pictures coming in from the room. The senators will be going back in there momentarily. Our Special Coverage continues right after this. Of a trip to athens, greece. You accidentally booked a flight to athens, georgia. With travelocity, theres no fee to cancel or rebook most flights within 24 hours. Travelocity® wander wisely™ its set to resume momentarily. Once it resumes, well, of course, resume our own live coverage. Also ahead, our retired marine corps general john kelly is due before the senate Homeland Security committee and his nomination to become the next secretary of Homeland Security. Thats scheduled to begin at 3 30 p. M. Eastern. Less than two hours from now. Well have live coverage of that as well. And another key hearing is underway right now as well. The heads of the fbi, the cia, and the nsa. The National Security agency. Also the director of national intelligence. They are testifying before the Senate Intelligence committee on russian interference in the u. S. President ial election. Right now i would like you to hear some of the sounds, some of the arguments that were made, the legal points from the hearing on the Attorney General nominee, Jeff Sessions. Lets begin with this. [ yelling ] wow. For the clan and what it represents and its hateful ideology. I insisted on maurice of the southern poverty law center, his lawsuit that led to the successful collapse of the klan, at least in alabama, the seizure of their building, at least for that period of time. I am not naive. I know the threat that our rising crime and addiction rates pose to the health and safety of our country. I know the threat of terrorism. I deeply understand the history of civil rights in our country and the horrendous impact that relentless and systemic discrimination and the denial of Voting Rights has had on our africanamerican brothers and sisters. I have witnessed it. We must continue to move forward and never back. During the course of the president ial campaign, you made a number of statements about the investigation of former Secretary Of State Hillary Clinton relating to her handling of sensitive emails and regarding certain actions of the Clinton Foundation. Mr. Chairman, it was a highly contentious campaign. I, like a lot of people, made comments about the issues in that campaign with regard to secretary clinton and some of the comments i made. I do believe that that could place my objectivity in question. Ive given that thought. I believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary clinton that were raised during the campaign. We can never have a political dispute turn into a criminal dispute. Thats not in any way that would suggest anything other than absolute objectivity. This country does not punish its political enemies, but this country insures that no one is above the law. Do you agree that the issue of samesex marriage is settled law . Supreme court has ruled on that. The disents disented vigorously, but it was 54, and five justices on the Supreme Court, a majority of the court, has established the definition of marriage for the entire United States of america and i will follow that decision. You have referred to roe v. Wade as one of the worst colossally Erroneous Supreme Court decisions of all time. Is that still your view . It is. I believe its it violated the constitution and really attempted to set policy and not follow law. It is the law of the land. It has been so established and settled for quite a long time. It zebs respect and i would follow it. April ryan, the White House Correspondent in Washington Bureau chief for American Urban Radio Networks and cnn Political Commentators doug high and simone sanders, where pamela, let me start with you. I think there are probably a lot of viewers out there who heard Senator Sessions say that he, if Attorney General, if he is confirmed, he would recuse himself from any matter regarding Hillary Clinton. A lot of people might have thought i thought this was all settings settled. I thought the case was closed regarding Hillary Clinton. What could he be talking about theoretically . We know the fbi director both came out and said they didnt find probable cause to prosecute. I think what he was referring to is the ongoing probe into the Clinton Foundation. We had previously reported that there was a preliminary inquiry into the Clinton Foundation thats been going on over the last several months, and doj did not give the authorization for a morrow bust investigation. It was sort of at a stand still before the election. Well have to see what happens now under the new administration. I think thats what he was referring to. I said he had not studied the hacking situation and was not necessarily up to speed on that. It seemed like to me he was trying to get that issue off the table as soon as possible in case donald trump was potentially watching this hearing. Then he went on and as the hearing went on and said that he was aware of it, but i was struck by that, but, again, i was just struck by his he was utterly prepared for this. 20 years is a long time to prepare. He wanted right out of the gate to exactly go back to that moment from the 1980s. A very painful moment. He talked about a race much more openly than i thought. Again, talking to just a few staffers up there. You know, this may be a party line confirmation. Important to remember he needs only 50 votes, 51 votes, and republicans have those votes. You can bet at least a few democrats unless we learn Something Else may support him as well. And maybe presumably he is up to speed at least a little bit on the russian hacking. This theoretically could become part of his job if he is confirmed because the fbi is part of the investigation into whatever hacking took place, the Intelligence Community part of which is the fbi plays a role, and if there are any criminal charges that take place. This would be under Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Right. He was asked if these probes lead to further russian connections that even go to trump or his staff, you know. Is he willing to follow there, and he said that he would. Senator graham after learning that he had not really studied the briefing or had the. He asked you like the fbi and laid the trap that sessions would say of course i respect the fbi and they do a good job so that not only because the fbi has determined that the russians have hacked into this, but the hornets nest hes backing up the full department. This hearing has resumed. Lets listen in. I wont know unless you tell me that theres any sort of 15minute break or anything, you let me know. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator kulens. Well Kwom Senatcome Senator Koch Gra congratulations to you. The next Attorney General of the United States will assume leadership of the Justice Department ton the helels. Cause for muslim ban, patrols, issues of a potential russian cyberattack, calls for mass deportations and chants at some rallies to lock her up and given the divisiveness of this election i think it is critical that the next Attorney General be wellsuited for this position and this time and as such i think a successful nominee has to be able to persuade this committee that he will act fairly and impartially and share in this. Weve worked well on state and local Law Enforcement issues, on the reauthorization of the child abuse act. I appreciate that partnership, but theres also been many issues on which we have disagreed. Issues from immigration, civil liberties, criminal justice, Voting Rieghts and torture, andi am concerned on a number of these issues when we met last week so i am grateful to the committee and chairman that we are going to have a full hearing on all of these issues today. Let me start with the time you were Alabama Attorney general and how you received direction from the Department Of Justice. It was the only that handcuffed criminals to Hitching Posts. It was used for Miprisoners Bei perceived to being unwilling to participate whether serving on a chain gang and cuffed at both wrists at chest height sometimes at eight or nine hours without access to water or even a bathroom and you and the Attorney General received letters telling you the alabama lea s use in both mens and womens prisons was unjustified, but as i understand the Hitching Posts continued to be used. And was not acted on to terminate it. The state of alabama was sued not just about Hitching Posts but chain gangs. The a man could be put on a chain gang for not making his bed, being shaved, shackled between eight chain of men and the case brought demonstrated were disproportionally affecting africanamericans. In later litigation the practice of using the Hitching Post was called by an alabama judge the most painful and torture rous short of execution. And the United States Supreme Court said the Hitching Post was clearly unconstitutional when it was used in alabama. Can you please tell me your view of using the Hitching Post in corrections and what action you would take today if these practices were restored . Thank you very much, senator. That was an issue of the governor who campaigned and promised that prisoners should work and he was determined to make that happen. I believe the litigation occurred after my time as Attorney General but i could be wrong and i will supplement the record for you. I believe the cases were after leaving, but the issue is what we have dealt with by congress and state legislatures. I think good employment of a prisoner is a healthy thing. I do not favor personally this kind of work, i think it should be more productive work, work to help the individual develop a discipline to use when they go on to private life after they leave prison. After the Supreme Court ruling i think its Crystal Clear what the law is, that was disapproved and disallowed and found to be unconstitutional and i would absolutely follow that as Attorney General. In your view, did it take a ruling by the u. S. Supreme court to clarify this constituted torture, that it was not just bad corrections policy but substantively torture of prisoners . Senator, i dont recall ever personally being engaged in the studying of the congressional issues at stake. Its legitimate for prisoners to work but they should be on decent conditions and i think it should be the kind of work thats productive and could actually lead to developing good habits. Ive heard some evidence on that subject, so i do not have a legal opinion about the case. Have not studied the details of it. Just to be clear what i was pressing you on there was the use of the Hitching Post which is a disciplinary measure that has been abandoned by every state but alabama it was used by the stocks centuries ago and tr struggling to me that it continued without challenge. And to address ways in which our criminal Justice System is broken and the disparagement of incarceration that has happened over the last 30 years. We wrote about the importance of balance of criminal judge, senators cornyn, lee and flake have all addressed mandatory prison sentences and incarceration, and in my years you have opposed all of these buy partisan sentencing reforms, help me understand why you are against the revisitation of sentences that may have been overly harsh when initially imposed and help me understand whether you think it is ever proper for a prosecutor to charge anything less than the most serious charge possible. A lot of questions, so the Sentencing Act has one foundational requirement now and thats the minimum mandatories. The guidelines have been either made voluntary by the Sentencing Commission and the courts and the policies of the Attorney General, so the thing that does stand in place are the min numb minimum mandatories, the minimums for sentencing offense, in 2001 it was opposed by the bush administration, a number of years later could have been done in 2001 when i made a speech in favor of it. Made a Speech Saying what you are saying that it was disproportionally impacting our Africanamerican Community and we needed to fix it and eventually it was passed, so i have a record of doing that, number one. Number two the guidelines were reduced the Justice Department has reduced its requirements, the Justice Department allows a prosecutor to present a case to the judge that doesnt fully reflect the evidence that they have in their files about a