Latest Breaking News On - Kim wright - Page 1 : vimarsana.com

Transcripts For CSPAN Congressional Career Of Representative Ralph Hall 20141127

looked at robert's rule. i figured it out finally. the guy got more votes than i did. i got beat. that's all there is to me. it didn't bother me but it hurt me because it hurt some of my friends. >> how are you feeling about leaving? >> well, when i wanted a doughnut this morning, i went down and get it. i've been a member of congress for 34 years and to finally get beat, if i was a manager for a be able or football team and i had 34-1, i'd be in the hall of fame, so doesn't bother me. and really it didn't bother me to get beat, because i wasn't just set on going. i had 18 co-chairman who were chairman of my 18 counties in my district that were supporting me and wanted me to run, and i did. it's -- better judgment was it -- it's hard toe get elected if you are 90 or 91-year-old and they don't tell people that you run two miles every morning, that you vote 99 plus percent of the time. there's a difference between that and old people. that wasn't brought up by the dallas morning news because they're not in my favor. >> what's your secret, how are you running two miles a day? >> i was told once, i was in the cattle building, if one of your he was has a bull calf. go out there and lift the bull calf every day over the fence, day after day after day until he's a full-grown bull. then when you can still lift him over the fence and throw him over the fence, you can throw the bull enough, you can run for congress. that's what they told me. so that's how i got into the congress, i left the cattle business and came here. >> well, you've switched parties during your time here. you've seen the parties change so many times. what's your handicap, let's start with the democrats what do you see when you look at the democratic party? >> well, the democrat party was democrats andrty, liberal democrats. i wasn't really liked any better by the republicans than the democrats, because i voted in my district. i had the sam rayburn district. go up there and do a job and tell them you're doing a good job. i'm not a golfer. i don't hunt. i don't fish. i campaign when i have a day. i go walk a building out or something ifment i've campaigned all my life. i think that's the way i stayed elected ed. >> staying with the democrats, today is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives >> oh. yeah. there's three or four conservatives over there now. >> that's it? >> yeah. >> so it'sing changed. >> they'll slowly become republicans, probably. of course it would make sam rayburn if he were alive. he was our kind of democrat. because when he looked back over his shoulder as he went to bonham, trks, to die, he left -- texas to die, he left a balanced budgets, so he was a conservative. >> when you look at the republican party, your challenger was a tea party member. is the republican party -- >> i don't know if he's a tea party member or not. you can't direct mail them. we don't know who they are or where they are. i always tell them to look at my record. >> are you seeing the party split the same way you described the democrats between fiscal conservatives and -- >> well, we have different types of conservatives as republicans. we have those that are hell for leather, republicans, you know, and it's got to be a republican if you're right. you have to be a conservative if you're right, and that's what we're beginning to learn, i think. >> other members that we've talked to have talked about how the congress has chavengt in the past during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off hours, which played out in more compromise. do you find that the place has changed in that regard and, if so, why? >> well, pretty much. when i got here i was a conservative democrat. i didn't really fit. republicans really didn't want me and the democrats didn't like me. for example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. i flew with the old bush. he flew tore pidto bombers. he was of a famous family. he didn't know me until after the war was over. i knew those people and add mired them. i had good luck with the bushes and good luck with reagan. i have a picture on my wall made with reagan, looking at our boots at camp david. the first six months he was there, i thought i'm going to be at camp david for the rest of my life. that was 30 or 40 years ago. i haven't been back. i don't know if i paverpedr participated correctly out there. i asked him some questions about marilyn monroe. he was a good guy and easy to talk to. ronald reagan came here when a man, one person could make a difference. i doubt that they can today. >> why so ? >> i don't know. he came here accepted as a conservative democrat or republican, but he'd been a democrat like all the rest of us, so he was in between -- he was a in-between deal there. somehow we felt like you could trust him. i got called the first 30 days he was here, because when he hit here, he hit here with a plan to increase pay for the military and yet cut the budget. that was his goal, and he had enough folks to get it, do it. when he got here about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said, if you don't hang the way you're voting on funs and on abortion, we're not going to support your bill. of course, you know what they told them, to go jump. but then he had to have some help out of the adamic party i was a democrat there. democrat.ousend was a we had some strength over there. jim baker could tell the president, call one of those guys and they'll help you. they said, well, i know ralph hall better an i know any of them. we'll have the president call him and maybe he'll pick up those votes that he lost. they needed about 10 votes. they told me he was going to call me. so i was ready for him. he called and said, this is ronald reagan. i said, yeah, i believe that. martha, come over here. he thinks i'm reagan now, but -- i want you to hear him. he said, no, i really am. another guy came over and no, it's really him. that's are funny type things that you don't forget. >> sure. >> when i knocked on the door he told me to come over there. i need some time. i had a program like he did. i always wanted to put a president on hold. i put him on hold about two minutes and i said, well, i can come over there today, tomorrow, or the next 30 minutes. what you want me to do? he told me to get my you-know-what over there. i knocked on the door. he said one question, what is it going to take for you to help me pay for the budget? i had an answer for him. >> as you look across the president's ha you've served under, served with, which of them have been the best at working congress to get their legislative -- >> i'd probably have to say reagan. he was so believable, and he had been a democrat, you know, pretty much, but the two bushes were easy for me to work with because i knew them. during world war ii, i had flown -- been at the same base a time or two with the old bush. he was a famous father. i knew who he was. he didn't have any idea who i was. i supported him for some statewide race. i think he got beat the first time. but bushes have always been favorites of mine. because i knew little george when he was nine or 10 or 12 years old. i knew he was never going to be president. but that's what a good woman can do for you. she changed him. you can have me or you can have jack daniels and he made the right choice. that woman probably saved the guy. >> ronald reagan was the best at working congress many >> i think so. >> yeah. >> i think he handled them better. he even went over and tear down that wall and brought cheers rather than jeers. he knew what to say and when to say it. he came when one person could make a difference. i don't think one person can make a difference now. >> a person that you have on your wall. lyndon johnson. what was your impression of him? >> he landed a helicopter many our football field and i got to know him then. i went to work for him and i think they were paying me $3 a day to put up his placards, but what i had to zoo, i thood bring them three placards of the guy they were hiring me against. they really were hiring me to tear the other guy's placards down. i got to application later because he was a good -- politics later. >> you pleft politics for a while and worked in private industry but decided to come back and make your bid for national elected office. who drew you back in after your time in private life ? >> i was in business and i was buying and selling land. i was -- rock wall county's the smallest county in texas, 254 counties and my little county is the mallest. dallas spills over on us and as they spilled over on us, it increased the value of our land and the counties next to us. i bought a lot of land and bought it and sold it at that time right time. during the 80's when every hit bottom, i was running for offers and i was trying to come up here. if i had been doing what i'd been doing, i'd have been broke. but i wasn't. all through the 1980's i was trying to stay -- keep my head above water because i knew i was coming to congress. >> why did you want to come to congress? >> well, sam rayburn and my mother were schoolmates at mayo college, a little college before east texas teachers state college at commerce, texas. ow it's texas a&m at commerce. they elected a good friend. she wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke out and asked me to help me get an officer, get officers training school. he didn't call her back or write her back. table. to her breakfast he said i can't hire him because of his grades. i graduated in a class of 38 but i graduated number 38. i always have been able to make it some way. somebody's been good to me. >> was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress? >> yeah. because my mother spoke to highly of me. a bunch of republicans came to me one time when i was a county judge in rock wall and was going to put up money for me to run against sam rayburn. my mother asked me, if you do that, where are you going to get breakfast, you know? i wasn't going to run against sam rayburn. he was a great man. i think sam rayburn could sfwill speaker of this house or could be -- i think, oh, joe dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. i think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when -- like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. >> your office is in the ray burn building. did you do that intentionally? >> no. i always wanted to get here. the first year i was here, we drew for offices. there were 9 of us and i drew up in 9 . >> last again? >>, the last again -- >> i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. so i stayed where i was. finally, i stayed here so-long had my choice and i picked this place. this is the best office on the hill. >> why is that? >> you're closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when you're an old guy, rest r5078s. got everything an old guy wants. >> you're surrounded by lots of photographs. >> so proud of all these people. they're all friends of mine. i don't know what i'm going to to with all these pictures. i have neil armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. he came and worked for me. he was a good guy. buzz aldrin's been to my home several times, and in rock wall, you know, they weren't sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. and of course i took him to the schools. you know, seniors vote. this guy, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action -- elections. he called me from new york. you come ets lrks pick me up. he said the dallas morning news is knock ug around. first thing i learned is you don't fight people. he came here and it helped me. they helped me through the campaign. i've had good luck and all kinds of help. to be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then. i've always had that and had people who helped me. the regulation -- when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and they'd tell the people in my district that they weren't going to get any republican money, the money would go with me. wasn't too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but they're still my friends. >> what are you going to do with your pictures and papers? are they going to a university somewhere? >> i'm told they're going to take all the pictures to texas a&m, reproduce them and give these back to me. i hope they do. >> your papers are going to texas a&m? >> yes. everything i have are going to texas a&m at commerce. my grandson went to school there. my wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and got her degree from there. so we're east texas state teachers college people. didn't know there was another school anywhere. >> many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the space program. will you talk about what you think your legacy in quang the space program has been? >> well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. he'd been in my home and he and i were good friends. i'd referee a fistfight that he had with a guy that's one of his best friends even today. i knew people who later were somebody. he called me in and said what do you want to be on. i said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. i want to be something with that space station. i've gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. i think i belong on some kind of space program. he put me on both of them. it would take you 10 years to et on either one of them now days. i got lucky. i have friends in high spaces. >> what are you proudest of? >> well, i'm proudest that we -- i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. they came down to one vote on that. and i got dr. debakey to walk the floors with me. we had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. later they tried to take space out of science and technology. i was a one-man army that taught them to leave space where it was because that's where it belonged? >> why? >> going to the moon? is that transportation? i think that's a little licked. but it is space, you know, and it's been space forever. why change something like that? what benefit would it be? >> what do you think of this state's commitment to the space program today? >> well, we're hurting. we're in trouble. and it's a lack of money. i have a book over here was -- what is his name? he's been before all the committees saying how bad we need the space program. i've asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. they wouldn't do it. so we're at russia's good will by -- we started out giving them $50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. we need to keep going back and forth to that station. we made a mistake when we didn't put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the space program is just not even 1% of the overall budget. and space is so important. every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. we'd lose all our international partners if we didn't do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. it's just important. we may have to defend the next war out of space. who knows? i told dr. debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, we'll lose the cure for cancer. and what's more important than a cure for cancer? it's important. >> i want to go back to your military service. fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about -- >> yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. if he lost four votes in the entire congress he'd go grab them by the tirkse what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill ? he was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. >> what about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war? how important is that? does it matter? >> it matters if you've been side by side with someone or you've gone to your buddy's funeral or you have a grave named after you. as a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. no that's not what i want to hear them say. "i nt to they're them say thought i saw him move." so i'm 91 years old. i don't hurt anywhere. i'm not on anybody's wait list or anything like that. i still run a couple miles a day. vote 99% of the time. i do most everything everybody else can do. i run two miles every day. i don't run it every day but there's never three days goes that i don't run it. i ran this morning. >> one thing that's changed is media coverage of congress. you mentioned ink by the barrelful. the people working in ink are hurting nowadays. it's all the internet and social media. how do you think that's affected things? the social media and the press? >> there's been some good and some bad. i've popped off and said things to people but i've said things i wished to hell i hadn't said, you know. i think we're more aware when we talk to you folks of what we're saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. i think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. they of these politicians, shoot at everything that's that flies and claim at anything that falls. they'll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the fichep future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. >> do you have any allies in the senate? >> we have two good senators? i've always liked the senators over there. got along with them fine. never wanted to run for the senate. i was in the texas senate 10 years. >> yb wouldn't you want to go over there? >> anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, they'd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think -- he's still got it. he won't run against anybody. so i'd be standing there. i'd be -- lot of times i've been lucky just because i was standing there. >> so the senate itself, though, and the house of representatives, what can you do here that you can't get done in the senate? >> pass a bill and you have to really have the votes over there. and you have to raise so much money. the cost of running for office is a major issue up here. it's why i could never run for senate. i couldn't raise that much money. >> you've had to raise increasing amounts of money to run for the house. what do you think about dsh >> i've been here so long, it came easier for me. finally, this last time i ran but i was spending money on surveys. they were telling me i was 10, 12% ahead when probably i wasn't. and i -- i guess i thought i was, but it was -- it didn't turn out right, but it didn't hurt me but it hurt my people so much. i had grown people crying there. i had one guy that's 6'8" that drives me places i go. i felt water hitting my head and i looked up, this old guy was crying. i said come on, you're 6'8", you're a grown people. it's nothing to cry about. it hurt my friends and folks more than i could -- more than it hurt me. i could seat it coming. i'm ok. i think i'm pretty lucky to be 91 years old. i got a job until december 31st now. how many guys have that? very few. >> what are you going to do with your time after? >> i will keep working, i have to. i have expensive grandchildren. i'm going to teach them -- i'm a texas guy but i'm an aggie now. they kiss me on the face, every kiss costs me a hundred dollars. they were kissing me good-bye and i had a girl who worked for me before. she was strange. not unattractive but never had any boyfriends. she was going to open the door for them. i said are you going to kiss me? she said, no. i said why not? 19 said, well, when you were or 20, would you want to kiss a 90-year-old women? i said that's the greatest thing i've ever heard. i think that's something people ought to hear. >> if you were asked to tell a story from your service here, the best -- helps people understand what it's like to be a member of congress, whether it's a funny story or a story of power or whatever, what would that story be? oh, i don't know. john connolly was by far the greatest politician i ever knew. he was governor of texas. should have been president but ey only had one delegate and couple million dollars wasn't nearly enough. i've had so many things that people helped me because i was a democrat and then when they helped me because i was republican. but i've always got along with -- neither one of them were many love with me but neither one of them really hated me. >> did it give you some bargaining advantage that you -- >> i think so. i've had to knock on the door of onewhite house and imply -- time, i said that i think the president wanted me to vote a certain way, and i said, well, i got a brother that always wanted to be a federal judge. he turned and the guy who was standing there, he said hall, this isn't a place to ask him for this. i said hell, he's asking me for something, i said i'll ask him for something. turned and asked them if he could get confirmed. i said wait a minute, mr. president. he's not a lawyer. that brought a big laugh. every time i saw him after that, he laughed because he liked him because he wasn't a lawyer. those are some of the things you remember. >> so any regrets? >> no, not really. what i've done, i've had -- whether i was a democrat, if a republican would run against me or announce against me, whoever was president up here, whether it was one of the bushes or a reagan, that's most of the time i've been there, they would get in the race with me and tell them they weren't going to get any republican money. i stumbled into it because i got along with everybody. i don't think i have an enemy in the entire congress. i don't think people say that's ralph hall's bill, let's vote against him or let's vote for him. i don't have any enemies over here. i run -- don't run the thing. i'm the oldest member of congress to ever stand on the floor and cast a vote. you'd think that ought to buy me something. maybe i shouldn't have to the run for re-election but doesn't change anything. i'm just like everybody else. >> but you made it into the history books. >> but i'm there, and they call me at first over here to talk to me about like egypt, should they arm the people that were out in the crowd there throwing rocks at their capital -- or arm the people that were in the capital that were mistreating the people who were in the streets. my suggestion was on both of them, they both hate us. well, they haven't asked me back over there since so -- i still think i was right. both of them hate us. why would we help either one of them. >> when you lost your bid, did you hear from anybody? >> everybody i know has a copy of it. -- as it george senior or >> it was george jr. >> what did it say? >> he said i was a good man, a good man, all that kind of bull. i'm going home for a thing friday. d known they were going to deify me like they did all this time, i would have quit a long time ago. >> congressman, i don't believe that. >> well, it's true. i don't really have any enemies. i have -- bruise easily. i never won a fistfight in school. was 6'2", and looked like ichabad crain. i wasn't much of a fistfighter. but i've always been fortunate to be in the right place and the right spot. and you have to have that kind of luck if you go where i've gone. 12 years as a judge in the smallest county in texas. i was the youngest county judge, i guess, in the state of texas. then 10 or 12 years in the senate, texas senate to pass some very important legislation in the senate, legislation that saved jobs at texarkana there, when you feel -- you work together with them you save 500 jocks, it gives you a good feeling. all right, if you can get a good boy in guam that wants to be stationed at fort worth because his grandfather because he's dying, it's a good feeling to be able to do things like that to help people. that's what i've got out of being where i was, because i got to do things to help people that otherwise you can't do. i even see a little difference now. i'm a defeated candidate now. i see some difference out there now as to how people treat me. or they don't need me because i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i don't like that but it's a hard, cold fact. i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i'm going to be at my grandkids. i haven't been hunting in -- i don't even know where my shotgun is. one guy in the depression said he ate so many rabbits, he freezes on dogs. i'm not that bad. i'm going to travel some. le i'm going to help some people who need help. i'm pog to look after grandchildren as i've maybe not looked after as i should have or had time for them but i'm going to have time for them. >> thank you for spending time with c-span, >> thank you. it's been a honor to be here with you. >> our series of interviews with retiring members of congress continues tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern when we talk to congressman frank wolf who's leaving after 18 terms. here's a preview. >> what will you miss about being in the institution? >> other people. the people, we made some great phillips over the years on both sides of the aisle. a lot of people i know and like and respect are here and i won't be here because i won't be coming up here, because i'm not coming back up on the hill day after day after day. so i think ill miss -- and the staff. part of the reason i've been able to do a good job. a great staff. i was a staff person here, and so i think the people. >> see the rest of this interview are congressman frank wolf tomorrow night at 8:00 astern here on c-span. this thanksgiving week c-span is featuring interviews from retiring members of congress. >> i was lucky in 1980, came in in 81. you look at my newsletters from 81 to 8 4rks there's no mention human rights and religious freedom. congressman tony hall, who was a democratic member from ohio, my best friend in congress, we've been in a group together for 32 years. he

Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20141127

various native american tribes. 10 a.m. eastern followingw." -- following "washington journal ." justices atcourt 8:30 p.m. eastern this thanksgiving week on c-span. for a complete schedule, go to c-span.org. michigan senator carl levin is retiring after serving six terms in the senate. he recently spoke about his political career in the current state of washington politics. this is a half hour. >> senator carl levin, chairman of the senate armed services committee, why are you retiring? >> a number of reasons. i didn't want to spend these two critical years out campaigning, raising money. i just felt there was too much at stake now, and i have a responsibility for some of those things as chairman of the armed services committee. it is not the way i wanted to spend my time, basically. the wife and i have been married for 53 years, and now 42 of those years have been in public life. we felt it was time. i am also 80 years old now. i just felt it was time to go home, spend a little more time with the grandkids. the main thing was that these two years have gone by and they have been so important in terms of america being at war, but also in terms of recovering from a recession, or as chairman of the permanent subcommittee on investigations -- there are important investigations that need to go on. i wanted to not take time away from that for campaigning. also, the budget situation here, which led to a crazy sequestration, needs to be revamped, to get rid of that approach, the automatic, across-the-board cuts approach that we call sequestration. needs to be revamped, to get rid of that approach, the automatic, across-the-board cuts approach that we call sequestration. to do that, it will require some additional revenue, as well as some modification in the entitlement area. we now need to focus on collecting the revenue which is lost because some of the most profitable corporations in america avoid paying taxes by shifting revenue to tax havens, by a bunch of tax avoidance gimmicks, which has happened in the last couple years. you put all that together, it is time not to run for reelection. >> you mentioned campaigning a couple times too. do you like campaigning? >> i like campaigning, i he's raising money. raising money. >> why? >> i think there is such a huge role for money in campaigns. it is painful, frankly. to continually ask people for money, particularly if those people have matters in front of the congress. the amounts are not what they used to be. the amounts used to be much more manageable. you could ask people, an average person, for a lot of money. but it is not the unlimited funds that are now available, because of terrible supreme court decisions. people and corporations can be asked for unlimited amounts of money. they can also be kept anonymous, those contributions. and that is a real tragedy, i believe. it has changed the nature of the game, so there is too much money in these campaigns. i didn't feel comfortable being out there, asking for money in this setting. >> what are you going to miss? >> the reporters. my friends in the senate, my staff. i have a fabulous staff and a lot of good friends. we will miss our house. we will miss capitol hill. we like living on capitol hill, we are urban people. we live in the city of detroit, that has always been my home, but we have got a wonderful neighborhood here. we have a wonderful eastern market where we love to shop. there are some things here that i will miss. i won't miss the excessive partisanship. the unwillingness of some to compromise, ideological rigidity. i won't miss that. but i will miss my colleagues. it is a great job. i am not leaving because of the job, i love the job. i love every minute of it, even when there is too much bickering going on. i have got a fabulous job. that is going to be hard to leave. >> legislatively, what sticks out in your mind? >> as much as we've accomplished and 36 years, i don't want to look back at that so much as to look forward to the next couple months. and the next couple months, there are a couple things i would like to do. one is get my defense authorization bill passed. it is a major effort involving hundreds of provisions that need to be first addressed by the senate, hopefully. then addressed in conference with the house. this is a massive annual job. we need to get that job. our troops deserve it, their families deserve it. i also want to finish up some work on the subcommittee of investigations, looking at gimmicks which are used to avoid taxes. some gimmicks which are used to get people, particularly large banks, certain special advantages over the rest of the world. i have spent a lot of time looking at that. there is some work that needs to be done there, as well. the biggest part, which will probably be undone, or left undone, will be what i call the unjustified tax loopholes. everyone talks about tax reform. everybody says they are for tax reform. when you start looking at what are the credits in the tax code, the deductions in the tax code, that should be closed, people then say -- wait a minute, that provision serves a useful purpose, this provision serves a useful purpose, that other provision serves a useful purpose. the truth of the matter is that most of the tax code serves a useful purpose. most of the tax code does things like give your child care credit, deductions or credit for charitable contributions, for mortgage expenses, for accelerated depreciation, for energy conservation. i favor those things, those are useful. they serve an economic or social purpose. there is no economic purpose served when microsoft or apple are able to shift their revenue to puerto rico to avoid paying taxes. there is no economic purpose served when one of these new, intellectual property giants -- they produce good stuff, i am not quarreling with apple. they create wonderful products. my quarrel is the way they avoid paying taxes on those profits, and shifting profits and their intellectual property to themselves, to their own corporations and tax havens to avoid paying taxes. those are the loopholes that we need to close, and we need the revenue in order to avoid another round of sequestration, which is there's absolutely mindless way to budget, where everything gets cut, including the national institutes of health. we are in the middle of an ebola problem. research has been cut at the national institute of health. because of this sequestration method of budgeting, which has an automatic, cookie-cutter approach. we have got to end that, and most of us -- not all of us -- not the tea party guys, the libertarian guys -- but most of us really want to end sequestration. from whatever perspective, whether it is domestic programs, infrastructure, roads, health care, so forth, or whether it is from the national security perspective. we need to close the unjustified tax loopholes that don't serve any economic purpose, in part to use that revenue in order to make sure we do what we need to do in important areas such as national security, education, and so forth. we probably can't finish that. a lot of republicans will join with me after the election, for those who really believe in what i am saying to do it before the election. hopefully in a lame-duck session we can at least set the table to get tax reform done in the right way, not so that revenues can be used to reduce tax rates for people who don't need a tax rate reduction. in order to come up with a different approach to a budget so that we can do whatever deficit reduction we want to do on a much more logical way. >> senator, 1978, what made you run? >> a lot of things that. my wife whispered in my ear that i should run for senate. i have known a local official in detroit for years before it ran. i love my hometown. detroit has a lot of problems, and one of the problems that had was 20,000 vacant houses owned by the government. they were open to trespass, used as dope dens and other things. we had a huge battle going on with the housing and urban development department. i wanted them to act and they wouldn't act to remove all those houses. this was a big issue and it still is. so, they said, they could not remove the houses. we can't tear the down the way we would tear down a privately owned house. i had a big battle, and i wanted to take that sentiment to washington, that i have to be a strong supporter of what they were trying to do, which was create housing. i am a democrat, i believe there is a useful role for that. but i am also someone who has seen waste in government. i wanted congress to have the power to veto regulations of the bureaucracy. i didn't want to be told by my elected official, we can to do anything about it, go to some federal agency in chicago or something. i wanted my elected official to be accountable to me, as a citizen of detroit and an elected official. that was something i felt very keenly about, to take the spirit to washington, that, yes, if we wanted to preserve what is really good and important about government, the opportunities of education that it can provide, the infrastructure that can provide, the health care which it should guarantee, the research on diseases which -- if we want to preserve that, we have got to take care of the wasteful part. the part that is frustrating to people because it is, at times, seeming so distant and rigid, one-size-fits-all. that is what i wanted to bring to washington. it was a major part of the campaign. it wasn't one thing which may be want to run for office here in washington, but i would say my experience as a local official in detroit was a major part of it. >> was it a surprise that you won? >> not to my wife, not to me, not to a whole bunch of supporters. but it was always a close race, going in. it was something of an upset. it wasn't a total upset, but it was something of an upset. >> senator levin, how did you end up on the armed services committee? >> i felt that was kind of a gap in my life. i wanted to learn more about the military. i had always had respect for the military, at what had happened in vietnam. but what happened after vietnam was unfair to the troops. i wanted to learn more. right away, i went to the armed services committee. the three committees i joined are the same three committees i am on. that was the main reason that i wanted -- i wanted to learn. it has been a great learning experience. it has really increased my appreciation and respect for what our men and women in uniform do for us. and not just military people, but the military leadership is so often so far advanced from civilian leaders in terms of war and life and death issues. there is a much greater caution on the part of military leaders to go to war than some of our civilian leaders. some of the civilian leaders, too ready to go to war without understanding complexities, the history that may have gotten various countries where they are, the risks that are taken. so i have come not just for men and women in uniform but for the military leaders of our country. they think deeply about war and peace. they are also great diplomats, many are terrific diplomat. >> when it comes to the military spending issue, are we spending too much? it is sort of a macro question that you can break down -- but are we spending too much? too little? >> we spent too little in some areas. some of our modernization programs, on nuclear program -- too much money being spent. i don't think we need thousands of nuclear weapons. you can't use one, really. they are useful to deter, that is about it. during the cold war, they were a deterrence. we spent a lot of money on our nuclear weapons. and we continue to reduce the number of nuclear weapons that we have. i think we are going to have to make some difficult reforms in terms of some of the costs that we have. it is not a black-and-white issue at all in terms of military spending, because there are some areas where we have cut too deep. we can hopefully remedy that, but at the same time, we have to including acquisition reform. senator mccain and i were leading the way, at least in the senate, on acquisition reform, to make sure that the level of cost was brought down. it was much too much. we had done some of that with some success. there are some areas where you have stuff that we are spending too much money for. but in terms of the amount of competition that we have, we passed the competition in contracting act many years ago, which was very important. but also this acquisition reform act. we led the way in the senate on a bipartisan basis. it was a very important reform and we have to keep trying to get rid of the waste that exists in the pentagon, in an operation that size there will be raced but you have to keep fighting it. >> when you want to go have dinner, who are some of your friends here? who do you call? >> i don't want to pick on anyone. i resist on that, totally. we don't go out to dinner very much with people. that part of our life seems to have dwindled. much more when we came here over the years, whatever the time pressure was, whatever the reason, there is less of that that goes on. i have too much respect for too many. and oh i will regret it and kick myself and say how could i have mentioned him without mentioning her. >> let's go to presidents, then. it was the president that you have enjoyed working with and haven't enjoyed working with? >> i've worked to a degree with all the presidents. i haven't had a bad relationship with any president, for starters. i think president obama is very, very thoughtful, very careful. does how to weigh pros and cons and gets along very well. i thought president clinton was unusual in terms of his ability, not just a think through issues and he has got a heck of a great mind, but he also had the ability -- has the ability, still very vigorously -- to connect with people on a personal way. people will tell you, if you are in a room with 100 people and bill clinton and you go from person to person, you will think he is the only one in the room that is aware of you. that is the kind of unusual ability that he has to connect with people. he is sympathetic in a very genuine way, the underdog, which i have always liked and admired in him. he has a sensitivity to people and their basic needs. again, i have gotten along with all the presidents to varying degrees. i don't want to say anything negative. i disagreed with the second president bush more than anyone. i disagreed very strongly on the iraq war. it was a policy issue, not a personal issue. i voted against going to war because i thought it was based on misrepresentations, particularly by vice president cheney, these allegations which were untrue at the time, known to be untrue by the intelligence committee. there was some connection between al qaeda and saddam hussein. that allegation was not true, and it was repeated over and over again, particularly by vice president cheney. that, i thought, was really wrong. they created some real tension between us. i won't say it was physical, particularly, but i have been very critical and very hard on vice president cheney. i think you really was the main leader that got us into that war. it wasn't the weapons of mass destruction issue, because i thought saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. you don't attack people because they have weapons of mass destruction, or else we would have attacked the soviet union or they would have attacked us, for pakistan, or india. just because we had a -- we thought he had weapons doesn't give us the reason to attack him. it is only if he is threatening to use them or has used them against you that he would then say, ok. what was presented to the american people before the iraq war, which gave them the greatest heartburn in a second bush administration, was representations to the american people, including at the u.n. unwittingly, by general powell, who tried to get rid of the stuff. it was not supportable. he still ended up with statements in their which were not accurate. but at least he made an effort before he made his presentation to the u.n. i am not as critical of general powell as i am of vice president cheney. >> is it tough to understand what members of the house have to deal with? it gets pretty complex. >> oh, yeah. you have staff to help you through it. i get involved with banks and tax codes and wall street because of the permanent subcommittee on investigations. there are a lot of issues and the defense area which i can't expect too many of my colleagues to really know in-depth. they are involved in energy issues or other issues which are technical that would be a mystery to me which i have to get up to snuff on when the staff comes to say there is a vote tomorrow. yeah, i would say 70% of the things around here are things you are not in the middle of, that you have to become familiar with and take a position on. that is where the fabulous staff comes in. you really rely on staff, heavily. caller: >> it been helpful to have your brother in the house? >> he is my lifelong best buddy. he has been my best buddy for 53 years. an amazing brother, an amazing member of the house of representatives. and boy, his colleagues just raise about him and love his demeanor, is reaching out to his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. he is a really nice guy. a nice, thoughtful guy. best brother anybody ever had. >> come january, what is your advice to the new senator from michigan? >> its gary peters. i don't think i have to give him too much advice on the house of representatives. he knows where the traps are. it would mainly be, i think, to remember that this is the house of representatives. majority doesn't rule in the senate. of minority rights which exist here, for a good reason, can also be abused. they can be abused by some of the filibuster threats some of our team party members are using in order to get their way on something where they shouldn't have their way. it needs to be protected. the rights of the minority also need to be used with some discretion so that the majority doesn't react by trying to restrict the rights of the minority. that is what is the problem here, that because there were some abuses, excesses, by some of the republicans, just some, he had to do what he did in ways which created problems. this is not the house. whoever the minority is next year, to raise issues, debate issues at length, to bring it to public attention. >> senator, moving back to your apartment in detroit -- what are your retirement years? what is your plan? where are all your personal papers going? >> they are going to michigan. we don't know what i will be doing. there are a lot of opportunities, and we are not focusing at all on that now. i have got to and a half months i have three kids and six grandkids. >> senator carl levin retiring after six terms. what's ralph hall is the oldest member of congress and has been in office for 33 years. runoff in may.ry he set down for an interview and talked about his career. this is 35 minutes. >> can congressman ralph hall, you've been in the house of representatives since january of 1981,aged you'd hoped to be here for one last term. the voters thought otherwise. how are you processing your departure? >> well, everything that i checked on during that that i was 10 to 12 points ahead. it told me one thing, don't listen to people who tell you you're ahead and you're not. i really thought i had it won. come back that night at 3:00 in the morning, i had to think as i was driving back out to my house how it happened. when i got home i pulled out old elections and checked to see how i did there. looked at robert's rule. i figured it out finally. the guy got more votes than i did. i got beat. that's all there is to me. it didn't bother me but it hurt me because it hurt some of my friends. >> how are you feeling about leaving? >> well, when i wanted a doughnut this morning, i went down and get it. i've been a member of congress for 34 years and to finally get beat, if i was a manager for a be able or football team and i had 34-1, i'd be in the hall of fame, so doesn't bother me. and really it didn't bother me to get beat, because i wasn't just set on going. i had 18 co-chairman who were chairman of my 18 counties in my district that were supporting me and wanted me to run, and i did. it's -- better judgment was it -- it's hard toe get elected if you are 90 or 91-year-old and they don't tell people that you run two miles every morning, that you vote 99 plus percent of the time. there's a difference between that and old people. that wasn't brought up by the dallas morning news because they're not in my favor. >> what's your secret, how are you running two miles a day? >> i was told once, i was in the cattle building, if one of your he was has a bull calf. go out there and lift the bull calf every day over the fence, day after day after day until he's a full-grown bull. then when you can still lift him over the fence and throw him over the fence, you can throw the bull enough, you can run for congress. that's what they told me. so that's how i got into the congress, i left the cattle business and came here. >> well, you've switched parties during your time here. you've seen the parties change so many times. what's your handicap, let's start with the democrats what do you see when you look at the democratic party? >> well, the democrat party was a two-party party, democrats and liberal democrats. i wasn't really liked any better by the republicans than the democrats, because i voted in my district. i had the sam rayburn district. go up there and do a job and tell them you're doing a good job. i'm not a golfer. i don't hunt. i don't fish. i campaign when i have a day. i go walk a building out or something. i've campaigned all my life. i think that's the way i stayed elected ed. >> staying with the democrats, today is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives >> oh. yeah. there's three or four conservatives over there now. >> that's it? >> yeah. >> so it's changed. >> they'll slowly become republicans, probably. of course it would make sam rayburn if he were alive. he was our kind of democrat. because when he looked back over his shoulder as he went to bonham texas to die, he left a balanced budgets, so he was a conservative. >> when you look at the republican party, your challenger was a tea party member. is the republican party -- >> i don't know if he's a tea party member or not. you can't direct mail them. we don't know who they are or where they are. i always tell them to look at my record. >> are you seeing the party split the same way you described the democrats between fiscal conservatives and -- >> well, we have different types of conservatives as republicans. we have those that are hell for leather, republicans, you know, and it's got to be a republican if you're right. you have to be a conservative if you're right, and that's what we're beginning to learn, i think. >> other members that we've talked to have talked about how the congress has changed in the past during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off hours, which played out in more compromise. do you find that the place has changed in that regard and, if so, why? >> well, pretty much. when i got here i was a conservative democrat. i didn't really fit. republicans really didn't want me and the democrats didn't like me. for example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. i flew with the old bush. he flew torpedo bombers. he was of a famous family. he didn't know me until after the war was over. i knew those people and add mired them. i had good luck with the bushes and good luck with reagan. i have a picture on my wall made with reagan, looking at our boots at camp david. the first six months he was there, i thought i'm going to be at camp david for the rest of my life. that was 30 or 40 years ago. i haven't been back. i don't know if i participated correctly out there. i asked him some questions about marilyn monroe. he was a good guy and easy to talk to. ronald reagan came here when a man, one person could make a difference. i doubt that they can today. >> why so ? >> i don't know. he came here accepted as a conservative democrat or republican, but he'd been a democrat like all the rest of us, so he was in between -- he was a in-between deal there. somehow we felt like you could trust him. i got called the first 30 days he was here, because when he hit here, he hit here with a plan to increase pay for the military and yet cut the budget. that was his goal, and he had enough folks to get it, do it. when he got here about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said, if you don't hang the way you're voting on funs and on abortion, we're not going to support your bill. of course, you know what they told them, to go jump. but then he had to have some help out of the democratic party i was a democrat there. billy townsend was a democrat. we had some strength over there. jim baker could tell the president, call one of those guys and they'll help you. they said, well, i know ralph hall better an i know any of them. we'll have the president call him and maybe he'll pick up those votes that he lost. they needed about 10 votes. they told me he was going to call me. so i was ready for him. he called and said, this is ronald reagan. i said, yeah, i believe that. martha, come over here. he thinks i'm reagan now, but -- i want you to hear him. he said, no, i really am. another guy came over and no, it's really him. that's the funny type things that you don't forget. >> sure. >> when i knocked on the door he told me to come over there. i need some time. i had a program like he did. i always wanted to put a president on hold. i put him on hold about two minutes and i said, well, i can come over there today, tomorrow, or the next 30 minutes. what you want me to do? he told me to get my you-know-what over there. i knocked on the door. he said one question, what is it going to take for you to help me pay for the budget? i had an answer for him. >> as you look across the president's ha you've served under, served with, which of them have been the best at working congress to get their legislative -- >> i'd probably have to say reagan. he was so believable, and he had been a democrat, you know, pretty much, but the two bushes were easy for me to work with because i knew them. during world war ii, i had flown -- been at the same base a time or two with the old bush. he was a famous father. i knew who he was. he didn't have any idea who i was. i supported him for some statewide race. i think he got beat the first time. but bushes have always been favorites of mine. because i knew little george when he was nine or 10 or 12 years old. i knew he was never going to be president. but that's what a good woman can do for you. she changed him. you can have me or you can have jack daniels and he made the right choice. that woman probably saved the guy. >> ronald reagan was the best at working congress many >> i think so. >> yeah. >> i think he handled them better. he even went over and tear down that wall and brought cheers rather than jeers. he knew what to say and when to say it. he came when one person could make a difference. i don't think one person can make a difference now. >> a person that you have on your wall. lyndon johnson. what was your impression of him? >> he landed a helicopter many our football field and i got to know him then. i went to work for him and i think they were paying me $3 a day to put up his placards, but what i had to do, i had to bring them three placards of the guy they were hiring me against. they really were hiring me to tear the other guy's placards down. i got to application later because he was a good -- politics later. >> you left politics for a while and worked in private industry but decided to come back and make your bid for national elected office. who drew you back in after your time in private life ? >> i was in business and i was buying and selling land. i was -- rockwall county's the smallest county in texas, 254 counties and my little county is the smallest. dallas spills over on us and as they spilled over on us, it increased the value of our land and the counties next to us. i bought a lot of land and bought it and sold it at that time right time. during the 80's when every hit bottom, i was running for offers and i was trying to come up here. if i had been doing what i'd been doing, i'd have been broke. but i wasn't. all through the 1980's i was trying to stay -- keep my head above water because i knew i was coming to congress. >> why did you want to come to congress? >> well, sam rayburn and my mother were schoolmates at mayo college, a little college before east texas teachers state college at commerce, texas. now it's texas a&m at commerce. they elected a good friend. she wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke out and asked me to help me get an officer, get officers training school. he didn't call her back or write her back. he came to her breakfast table. he said i can't hire him because of his grades. i graduated in a class of 38 but i graduated number 38. i always have been able to make it some way. somebody's been good to me. >> was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress? >> yeah. because my mother spoke to highly of me. a bunch of republicans came to me one time when i was a county judge in rockwall and was going to put up money for me to run against sam rayburn. my mother asked me, if you do that, where are you going to get breakfast, you know? i wasn't going to run against sam rayburn. he was a great man. i think sam rayburn could still be speaker of this house or could be -- i think, oh, joe dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. i think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when -- like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. >> your office is in the ray burn building. did you do that intentionally? >> no. i always wanted to get here. the first year i was here, we drew for offices. there were 9 of us and i drew up in 9 . >> last again? >>, the last again -- >> i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. so i stayed where i was. finally, i stayed here so-long had my choice and i picked this place. this is the best office on the hill. >> why is that? >> you're closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when you're an old guy, rest r5078s. got everything an old guy wants. >> you're surrounded by lots of photographs. >> so proud of all these people. they're all friends of mine. i don't know what i'm going to do with all these pictures. i have neil armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. he came and worked for me. he was a good guy. buzz aldrin's been to my home several times, and in rockwall, you know, they weren't sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. and of course i took him to the schools. you know, seniors vote. this guy, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action -- elections. he called me from new york. i have tickets, you come pick me up. he said the dallas morning news is knocking around. first thing i learned is you don't fight people. he came here and it helped me. they helped me through the campaign. i've had good luck and all kinds of help. to be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then. i've always had that and had people who helped me. the regulation -- when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and they'd tell the people in my district that they weren't going to get any republican money, the money would go with me. wasn't too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but they're still my friends. >> what are you going to do with your pictures and papers? are they going to a university somewhere? >> i'm told they're going to take all the pictures to texas a&m, reproduce them and give these back to me. i hope they do. >> your papers are going to texas a&m? >> yes. everything i have are going to texas a&m at commerce. my grandson went to school there. my wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and got her degree from there. so we're east texas state teachers college people. didn't know there was another school anywhere. >> many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the space program. will you talk about what you think your legacy of the space program has been? >> well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. he'd been in my home and he and i were good friends. i'd referee a fistfight that he had with a guy that's one of his best friends even today. i knew people who later were somebody. he called me in and said what do you want to be on. i said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. i want to be something with that space station. i've gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. i think i belong on some kind of space program. he put me on both of them. it would take you 10 years to get on either one of them now days. i got lucky. i have friends in high spaces. >> what are you proudest of? >> well, i'm proudest that we -- i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. they came down to one vote on that. and i got dr. debakey to walk the floors with me. we had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. later they tried to take space out of science and technology. i was a one-man army that taught them to leave space where it was because that's where it belonged? >> why? >> going to the moon? is that transportation? i think that's a little licked. but it is space, you know, and it's been space forever. why change something like that? what benefit would it be? >> what do you think of this state's commitment to the space program today? >> well, we're hurting. we're in trouble. and it's a lack of money. i have a book over here was written by -- what is his name? he's been before all the committees saying how bad we need the space program. i've asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. they wouldn't do it. so we're at russia's good will by -- we started out giving them $50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. we need to keep going back and forth to that station. we made a mistake when we didn't put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the space program is just not even 1% of the overall budget. and space is so important. every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. we'd lose all our international partners if we didn't do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. it's just important. we may have to defend the next war out of space. who knows? i told dr. debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, we'll lose the cure for cancer. and what's more important than a cure for cancer? it's important. >> i want to go back to your military service. fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about -- >> yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. if he lost four votes in the entire congress he'd go grab them by the tie. what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill? he was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. >> what about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war? how important is that? does it matter? >> it matters if you've been side by side with someone or you've gone to your buddy's funeral or you have a grave named after you. as a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. no that's not what i want to hear them say. i want to they're them say "i thought i saw him move." so i'm 91 years old. i don't hurt anywhere. i'm not on anybody's wait list or anything like that. i still run a couple miles a day. i vote 99% of the time. i do most everything everybody else can do. i run two miles every day. i don't run it every day but there's never three days goes that i don't run it. i ran this morning. >> one thing that's changed is media coverage of congress. you mentioned ink by the barrelful. the people working in ink are hurting nowadays. it's all the internet and social media. how do you think that's affected things? the social media and the press? >> there's been some good and some bad. i've popped off and said things to people but i've said things i wished to hell i hadn't said, you know. i think we're more aware when we talk to you folks of what we're saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. i think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. a lot of these politicians, they shoot at everything that's that flies and claim at anything that falls. they'll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. >> do you have any allies in the senate? >> we have two good senators? i've always liked the senators over there. got along with them fine. never wanted to run for the senate. i was in the texas senate 10 years. >> you wouldn't you want to go over there? >> anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, they'd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think -- he's still got it. he won't run against anybody. so i'd be standing there. i'd be -- lot of times i've been lucky just because i was standing there. >> so the senate itself, though, and the house of representatives, what can you do here that you can't get done in the senate? >> pass a bill and you have to really have the votes over there. and you have to raise so much money. the cost of running for office is a major issue up here. it's why i could never run for senate. i couldn't raise that much money. >> you've had to raise increasing amounts of money to run for the house. what do you think about - >> i've been here so long, it came easier for me. finally, this last time i ran but i was spending money on surveys. they were telling me i was 10, 12% ahead when probably i wasn't. and i -- i guess i thought i was, but it was -- it didn't turn out right, but it didn't hurt me but it hurt my people so much. i had grown people crying there. i had one guy that's 6'8" that drives me places i go. i felt water hitting my head and i looked up, this old guy was crying. i said come on, you're 6'8", you're a grown man. it's nothing to cry about. it hurt my friends and folks more than i could -- more than it hurt me. i could seat it coming. i'm ok. i think i'm pretty lucky to be 91 years old. i got a job until december 31st now. how many guys have that? very few. >> what are you going to do with your time after? >> i will keep working, i have to. i have expensive grandchildren. i'm going to teach them -- i'm a texas guy but i'm an aggie now. they kiss me on the face, every kiss costs me a hundred dollars. they were kissing me good-bye and i had a girl who worked for me before. she was strange. not unattractive but never had any boyfriends. she was going to open the door for them. i said are you going to kiss me? she said, no. i said why not? she said, well, when you were 19 or 20, would you want to kiss a 90-year-old women? i said that's the greatest thing i've ever heard. i think that's something people ought to hear. >> if you were asked to tell a story from your service here, the best -- helps people understand what it's like to be a member of congress, whether it's a funny story or a story of power or whatever, what would that story be? oh, i don't know. john connolly was by far the greatest politician i ever knew. he was governor of texas. should have been president but they only had one delegate and couple million dollars wasn't nearly enough. i've had so many things that people helped me because i was a democrat and then when they helped me because i was republican. but i've always got along with -- neither one of them were many love with me but neither one of them really hated me. >> did it give you some bargaining advantage that you -- >> i think so. i've had to knock on the door of the white house and imply -- one time, i said that i think the president wanted me to vote a certain way, and i said, well, i got a brother that always wanted to be a federal judge. he turned and the guy who was standing there, he said hall, this isn't a place to ask him for this. i said hell, he's asking me for something, i said i'll ask him for something. he turned and asked them if he could get confirmed. i said wait a minute, mr. president. he's not a lawyer. that brought a big laugh. every time i saw him after that, he laughed because he liked him because he wasn't a lawyer. those are some of the things you remember. those are things you remember. >> any regrets? .> not really , -- theys a democrat would get into a race. . have had help i just stumbled into it because i got along with everyone. i don't think i have been enemy in the entire congress. enemies.ave any the oldest member of congress in the history is to stand the floor and cast a vote. maybe out to have more money. maybe i would have to run for reelection. >> you made into the history books. >> i'm there. -- theystion to him was haven't asked me over there since. you -- yourtion for great friendship with the bushes -- when you lost your bid, did you hear from them? >> sure did. >> was a george senior or george w.? >> he said i was a good man. a great man. i have been honored ever since. entities. about 10 i would have quit long time ago. >> i don't believe that. [laughter] >> i don't really have any enemies. i never did make enemies. i didn't have any girlfriends. i've always been fortunate to be in the right place at the right spot. save jobs at exit canada. -- texacana. i got to know him. that is a good feeling. i see some difference in the way people treat me. it is a hard, old fact. i'm going to be with my grandkids. i haven't been hunting and so long. i'll do some things i haven't done before. >> thank you for spending time with c-span. it was good to romanesque with you over your career with congress. >> thank you. it has been an honor. >> our series of interviews continues to my night at 8 p.m. eastern when they talk to congressman frank wolf of virginia who is leaving office after 18 terms. here is a review. >> what will you miss the most? >> of the people. the people -- has made great friendship on both sides of the aisle. i think i will miss the staff. the people. >> see the rest of the interview with congressman frank wolf tomorrow night at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> according to aaa drowsy driving is responsible for 400,000 traffic accidents each year. the national transportation safety board hosted a meeting. this is just over an hour. >> good morning. welcome to the board room of the national transportation safety board. it's a wake -- awake, alert, alive. i am board member and it is my privilege to reside over the meeting today. my thanks to all of the panelists who will be provided their perspectives and considerable expertise today. we are calling this forum awake, alert, alive because every driver must be awake and alert to operate a vehicle safely. sufficient, good-quality sleep is approximately to alertness and human performance and yet so many americans are on the road dangerously impaired by lack of sleep. we know this is a serious problem. the current estimates may only point to the tip of the iceberg. driver fatigue may directly contribute to over 1200,000 roadway crashes annually. these are only police-reported crashes. there's some estimates that put the number of drowsing driver crashes at over a million a year. conservative estimates suggest a thousand people are killed annually in these crashes while other data indicate that the 7500 lives are lost every year. the number of crashes and fatalities attributed to fatigue is grossly underestimated. there is no roadway test. we do not have a fatigue-alyzer as we do a breathalyzer. state reporting practices are inconsistent and there's little or no police training in determining sleepy driving. self reporting is unreliable. any resulting loss of life is tragedy, needless and preventable. a drowsy driver can be a deadly driver. even one night losing two hours of sleep is sufficient to significantly impair our built, attention, reaction time, decision making can all be significantly reduced by 20% to 50% and driving many this condition, that could mean not reacting to the brake lights in front of us or not see the traffic light turning red. fatigue alone can be deadly. it also multiplies the adverse effects of other forms of impairment. drugs, alcohol and distraction. every other form of i am parent may be exacerbated when we don't get enough sleep. we've identified sleep as causal, contribute over or finding. the agency has issued more than 200 safety recommendations in such diverse areas as research, vehicle technologies, the treatment of sleep orders and hours of scheduling policies for commercial and bus drivers. most people drive cars. they operate personal vehicles. for most of us, there are no hours of service or rest rules. we have to rely on our own experience for knowledge of fatigue and its affects. unfortunately, our personal experience especially as it relates to self-diagnosing fatigue is typically inaccurate. in january 2013, the ntsb investigated a collision involving three passenger vehicles. the collision happened at about 8:30 in the morning. a nurse was driving home after more than 13 hours on duty. she depart her lane, crossed over the median and entered a northbound lane traveling against the flow of traffic. her car then struck another vehicle, pushing it into one lane over. this vehicle was struck again from behind by another car. one driver was fatally injured and the 234urs was transported to a hospital where she was treated for her injuries. she had fallen asleep. she'd worked night shifts for nine years and was familiar with the challenges of her schedule and yet her inverted work schedule along with her extended time awakening contributed to her falling asleep at the wheel. today's forum offers us an opportunity to focus on the dangers of drowsy driving and on the countermeasures that can mitigate. we'll identify what we know and what we don't. only the most robust data on drowsy driving can lead to the most effective countermeasures. we'll look another sleep disorders. we will hear about the challenges faced by young novice drivers. we will discuss irregular work schedules and how the same people we depend on for our 24-7 lifestyle are vulnerable to taking to the road in a too tired state. we will hear about in-vehicle and on-road countermeasures and other strategies to reduce the risk of drowsy driving cashes. perhaps just as importantly, we will provide a public setting to exam the dangers of drowsy driving. for awake and alert driving to become the expected norm, we must play a prominent preventive role. this for all of us is for nurses, doctors, law enforcement officers and security guards driving home after their shift. it's for the utility worker driving home after fixing the powerlines after a storm. it is for any of us who have ever driven with too little sleep. a crash can happen literally in the blink of an eye. it is our hope that this forum is one step toward a national waking about the safety risk of drowsy driving. now i will turn to dr. janay price who has done an outstanding job in organizing this forum. dr. price. >> thank you. for safety purposes, please note the emergency exits. you can use the rear doors that you came through. to enter the conference center, there's also a set of emergency doors up front. if you haven't done so, please silence your electronic devices. today's forum has been designed to get to several topics relative to drowsy driving. we will begin with an introduction and the scope of the problem. this morning we will have panels addressing workplace factors. concerns as novice drivers. a group from the national organization for youth safety will join us during the novice driver panel. after lunch we will have panel discussions. the final panel of the day will address countermeasures and future directions. each panel will open with presentations by panelists followed by a facilitated question and answer period led by our ntsb technical chairs. our staffer and panelist bios as well as the agenda are available on the forum website www.needs/drug. presentations provided by our speakers and a video archive of the webcast will be available on our website. attendees or others who wish to submit written comments for inclusion in the forms may do so until november 7. submissions should address one or more of the topic areas and should be submitted electronically to ntsb.gov. there are a variety of lunch options. take the escalators up one floor and walk straight ahead. you'll find restaurants as well as a food court. handouts are available in the lobby and on the website. we appreciate your cooperation in helping us keep on schedule during panels and breaks. one note to our presenters about breaks. we will have panel photos in the morning. panels -- for the importantly panels during the morning break and for the afternoon panels in the afternoon break. we'll meet right here. i now turn to our first technical chair, mr. dennis collins to introduce the first panel. mr. collins. >> thank you, dr. price. presenters, when speaking, please push the button on the microphone. a green light indicates the microphone is on. please bring your microphone close and press the button to turn it off when you're done speaking. the first panel covers an introduction and the scope of the problem. our panelists are dr. david, chief of the division of sleep and director of the unit for experimental psychiatry at that time university of pennsylvania's perlman school of medicine and brian teft of the aaa foundation for safety. dr. dinges. >> good morning. thank you for inviting me to speak at this important meeting. i'm going to begin by setting the stage for the biological effects of drowsiness that make it so terrifically dangerous when we drive. next slide, please. the first thing to remind those listening and looking at these slides are that as near as we know right now, all animals need to sleep, and humans are no exception. sleep an essential part of our health and survival. we have to do it on a daily basis. we have to achieve healthy sleep and we need sleep that is of adequate duration to ensure that we don't have uncontrolled drowsiness and sleepiness during the daytime. this slide is just a reminder that when we don't receive adequate sleep, we tend to fall asleep very rapidly. the graph going down on the left shows that the longer we're awake, the more rapidly we will fall asleep and the more rapidly we will transition into a stage of sleep where we cannot recover even if we're alerted. the graph on the right reminds us that the depth and intensity of that sleep is an inherent part of the sleep system attempting to recover the brain from the terrific need for sleep and to give it the sleep that is essential, and other speakers will talk about what happens to drowsiness and waking functions when you don't receive that depth of sleep. next slide. why don't people obtain enough sleep? this is the only -- the only thing i'll say here is what we now know in our modern lifestyle is that substantial portions of the population shown here in the yellow bars on the left do not achieve even seven hours sleep a night. the bulk of the evidence in the sleep field points to the fact that once large segments of the population are sleeping less than seven hours, we get an increase in -- excessive sleepiness, accident-related sleepiness as well as obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular problems. so there are significant safety and health consequences to chronically undersleeping. yet we have large segment of the population undersleeping. the graph on the right reminds us that part of that, a major part of why people do not get adequate sleep is work and travel. they spend extra time at work, extra time getting up early to get to work, and while those may seem like normal routine activities, they've become so problematic that they're eating up the time that one would -- should spend sleeping and they force us to compress our sleep down into a shorter and shorter period during the workweek, then people make a desperate effort to recover on the weekend but that recovery is usually inadequate. two days of extra sleep usually will not repair us. chronic sleep restriction is an inherent part of modern lifestyle and jobs for many people and that is where -- where one of the source offs problems are. you'll hear other speakers talk about sleep disorders, etc. now, we know that this is occurring in the brain. many people think it's all right to drive drowsy because it's a willful event that somehow it hasn't got anything to do with biology and you can just will yourself to overcome it. slapping yourself in the face or turning up the radio will not prevent this from occurring. if it does prevent it, it is no more than a second or two. it will have a lasting benefit. it's not the same as sleep. the brain needs sleep. obviously, you can't sleep and drive at the same time. would you just click on this video? one of the hallmark features of the -- the sleep -- falling asleep driving is that the eyelids will close. we all know this. but we don't understand that muscles 0f our eyelids that are losing tone due to the pressure of sleep. sleep and drowsiness not only makes our brain blink on and off and not pay attention but it also causes muscle relaxation, including the eyelids. the eyelids will come down. this is a simulator. this is not a real driving experience. we're not putting this young lady at risk. you'll see in this virginia tech film, she's falling asleep and the head dips back and the eyelids close because there's loss of muscle tone. when the eyelid the eye rolls back. you can see she almost ran off the road in the simulator. this is what we all know drowsy driving is. so many people have done it many their lives that we don't enter any -- have any trouble recognizing yes, that's what's occurring but we don't appreciate how staggeringly dangerous this is. on the left side in yellow, this young lady is working on a vigilance task but she's been sleep deprived. on the right side she's working on the task and she isn't sleep deprived. the graphs below show you that over time, the graph on the left says that initially she works ok. as soon as we sleep deprive her halfway along that graph, up goes her lapses of attention and up go the frequency of her eyelids drooping. on the right-hand side she may be bored but she can work for hours on end without falling asleep. people who think that drowsy driving's due to just being bored when you're driving or bad scenery are wrong. it's due to you not sleeping enough. boredom is -- driving when you're not interested in what you're looking at. sleepiness and drowsiness is the pressure of the brain is trying to work. we know among all the tests that have looked at, attention in particular and alertness are the number one affects of sleep loss. by 235r, they occur more frequently and more profoundly than the effects on memory, reasoning and many other areas. and that's best illustrated by this somewhat complicated slide. listen to these heart beats. these are actually reaction times of people when they're fully alert and pressing a button so each quick heartbeat is a fast reaction time. there's nothing wrong. we're explaining this heartbeat just to give you the point that the brain is dead as you go here. click on that top one again and shut it off and we'll click on the bottom one. ok. now, here's the drowsy driver equivalent. they start out and they're fine. as they drive along, they start to have he's lapse, that's one. that's your eyelids down. you're not responding. you're not responding. you're not monitoring. now you're back again. no, now you're going to go again. this is the hallmark feature of sleep loss. click on than and look to the right. we know where in the brain that is. in the brain you can see the response times in the sleepy driver whereas the alert driver is steady as you go. this is that fighting sleepiness that people experience driving down the road. by the time you're doing that, you are at grave risk, you really shouldn't be behind the wheel. you should pull off. you should get some sleep, get some rest. you should have slept adequately before you drive and you're going to hear me and other speakers say that. this is the grave risk of driving. just because you get away with it for a mile or two doesn't mean you won't van uncontrolled sleep attack in the next hour. they'll be come more and more repeated and more and more severe. they're completely unpredictable. if you can predict the moment you're going to fall asleep, you might argue, ok, i'll do something to correct it. but you can't do that. the brain does this against your will at a time when you realize, oh, my god, i realize i just slept this last period of time. you can't be operating a motor vehicle when that happens. you're begging for a crash. in fact, it takes no more than a two-second lapse of attention at 60 miles an hour with a four-degree angle of drift that's just enough loss of steering control, just relax your muscles on the steering wheel, close your eyes for two seconds, you can completely be out of lane and off the road in four seconds. you can see how it takes very little of these lapses, these microsleeps to put you in grave danger. not to mention if you're in close traffic. one of my messages is this isn't just highway phenomena. drowsy driving, slowed reaction times are occurring in people who haven't had adequate sleep in the city. they're occurring in density traffic. the studies done by the federal government have shown that in the washington, d.c. area, they find drowsy driving occurring all over the metro area. we know there's high-risk events occurring even in traffic. this is just an illustration of the dynamics of this drowsiness. what you see in the upper graph that you don't have any of these lapses from drowsiness when you're getting normal sleep at night on the left. as you go a night without sleep, those lapses increase. you went actually a second night without sleep, they'd go even higher. the same thing happens if you're only getting, say, four or five or even six hours a sleep a night. they get progressively worse day after day. down below you actually can see that segment of the night from midnight to 8:00 or y9 a.m. and you can see the high rate of motor vehicle crashes related to falling asleep at that time. you can see they ramp up at that time. it doesn't mean you're safe in the middle of the day if you haven't slept the night before. you can absolutely have a drowsy driving crash at any time of day, but this shows the dynamic from one study done in north carolina of people falling asleep and you're at a particularly high danger risk through the night and especially in the morning often in the morning after the sun is up. people think they are safe because the sun is. like is not powerfully enough to override this danger. they are not the only group in society that have these crashes. young adult males up to mid 40's have a high rate. next slide, please. the study -- left, the less sleep you get, the more lapses you have every day. they are going up. on the right are how people felt about their sleepiness. click on that. what you see in the middle graph is at the bottom graph is performance is getting worse across time. our sense of how we are doing is changing. this means you cannot actually tell how dangerous you are driving. you need to pay attention to can you do that safely? the best way to go is prevention. this makes the point that, when , we are tryingt to get eight hours in the day time and stay awake at night. we are at risk for greater lapses of attention and it puts enormous attention -- pressure on the brain. you are at risk when you do not get adequate sleep and whenever you are awake at night. >> the functions are important to recall. . you'll see how performance deteriorates and on the left or on the middle. pilot flyingirline at night, you have a lower level of performance and you deteriorate rapidly. if you get treated for you fly during the daytime, you perform better. it is these functions that are dangerous. you could rapidly deteriorate. you can rapidly deteriorate. you could rapidly deteriorate. just be fully alert within minutes. people cannot understand how that is. the praying -- brain cannot do an immediate task when it hasn't had enough sleep. these tasks are dangerous. a mortality rate nearly that of alcohol. very serious injuries. you fall asleep. you're no longer monitoring. you exit the roadway here and you don't engage in corrective actions to avoid hitting the pole or truck or tree. as a result, a high degree of bodily injury and mentality. almost equivalent to high blood alcohol levels. here's the good news. this is a study from walter reed. restrict people to three hours a night in the laboratory to look at what happens. one group got seven hours. another got 10 hours. the more you sleep ahead of time, the better you can tolerate the effects of any restriction that is on your sleep period when forced to get up in the middle of the night to check on a baby or go to work. you have to get your sleep. you have to treat sleep as a high-priority item every day to prevent these its relative debts oppose these risk for drowsy driving. next slide. the brain is the organ of behavior. the brain needs help with adequate daily duration. no question about it. thousands of studies support the statement. it is unequivocal. we know that you got to penetrate this message to the public. whether professionally or just driving to pick up children or whatever. and sleep is inadequate, the brain has a slower response and lapses into micro sleep that result in the waxing and waning of attention slowed reaction times and pose a serious crest risk. as sleepiness increases, lapses get more frequent and longer in duration. there is loss of muscle tone. contributes to a greater driving risk. want to start having this comment it won't get any better unless you get off the road. get some sleep. take some kind of countermeasure. next. as sleepiness lapses, two seconds is enough to result in you being completely off the road out of the lane. it takes little to have a catastrophe. such crashes involve bodily injury that is severe or fatality. there is little corrective action in a timely manner. the slowed reaction times even without frequent lapses of attention could cause problems in congested traffic. even if you are not falling asleep, if your sleep be in the morning and you could have slow reaction times that will get you in trouble. finally, people are unable to judge their ability even when lapsing repeatedly. they think they are oh k. it is essential they do not drive to maintain alertness. plan your driving based on who has slept the most and is most fit. if you must drive overnight have someone else with you to watch you. have someone watch you. don't let everyone go to sleep. the driver will go to sleep. i think that is my final message. thank you. >> thank you. our next speaker of the aaa foundation for traffic safety. >> thank you. i have been asked to talk about the prevalence of drowsy arriving on the road and in traffic crashes. in this presentation, i will be talking about recent research into the prevalence in drowsy drivers on the road both in terms of drivers falling asleep while driving as well as drivers who are highly fatigue did not asleep. i'll also talk about studies of actual motor vehicle crashes that estimates the number and proportion of crashes involving fatigue and drowsiness. next slide. it national surveys that have been done by the national highway traffic safety administration, the cdc, traffic safety, the motoring public has been asked whether they have fallen asleep or nodded off while driving. about two out of five americans report having fallen asleep while driving at some point in their life. consistently across any study that has look at this, about 11% report having done so within the past year and approximately 4% of american drivers report having fallen asleep at the wheel within the past 30 days. if these statistics are likely to be underreported. studies have shown that a person has to be asleep on average 2-4 minutes before they realize they were just asleep. these are likely underestimates of the frequencies which people fall asleep at the wheel. in addition, the aaa foundation in a survey we do a driving behaviors and drivers attitudes, in the past 30 days, how often have even when you retired had a hard time keeping your eyes open? more than a quarter of american drivers consistently reported having done that at least once in the past month. 2% report having done that very often regularly. next slide. in terms of the pole of drowsiness -- toll of drowsiness, 2.4% of fatal crashes, 2% injury crashes. the statistics that these are based on were brought with a number of limitations that result in their likely being substantial underestimates of the scope of the problem. we don't have a fatigulizer. a driver who is alert and awake and unharmed and able to talk about what happened to me be willing to admit to that police that they were drowsy. again, they may not realize or remember that they were asleep. one has to be out for 2-4 minutes he for the are likely to realize they were sleeping. in the case of more severe crashes and crashes resulting in fatalities. the driver may be unconscious or deceased. it is difficult for the police to ascertain what happened. another more subtle and more insidious limitation of the data is that in many states, the forms that police officers used to indicate what happened in a crash contains a simple series of checkboxes to indicate whether the driver was perhaps drowsy, impaired by alcohol, angry, emotional, distracted, etc.. the when officer would indicate a driver is drowsy is by checking the locks. -- box. if the driver was an drowsy, they wouldn't check the drowsy box. unfortunately this creates a problems in interpreting the data after the fact. the way that it would be indicated the driver was not drowsy and the way it would be indicated that we don't know whether the driver was drowsy or not is exactly the same. an empty box. next slide. i will be talking about the studies that have looked at greater depth on data to estimate the proportion and the number that involves driver drowsiness. the first study i will talk about is the one that was alluded to. in that study, they looked at vehicles in the d.c. metro area. with the researchers reviewing video that occurred looking at the signatures of drowsiness that was noted, eyelids drooping, researchers were able to estimate the level of jobs in is of drivers. in all moderate to severe driver housing us. this is a study for the bulk of the driving was done in circumstances that aren't typically associated with frequent drowsiness. another study that took a different approach to the problem was the study by dr. stutts and colleagues. researchers gathered a sample of police reported crashes. based on the data and other information and the police reports, they developed a statistical model to predict the this is a study for the bulk of the driving was done in circumstances that aren't typically associated with frequent drowsiness. another study that took a different approach to the problem was the study by dr. stutts and colleagues. researchers gathered a sample of police reported crashes. based on the data and other information and the police reports, they developed a statistical model to predict the likelihood that the driver was browsing -- trouser -- drowsy. the researchers applied this model to data from fatal crashes that occurred nationwide in years 2001-2003. when they did so, the estimated as many as 50% of drivers in fatal crashes were drowsy. in the author's own words, they fell in a conservative estimate. the national statistics suggested about 2% of fatal crashes involved a drowsy tribe or. they labeled it a conservative estimate. another study the gives us more insight into the prevalence of drowsiness in crashes is the national motor vehicle causation survey some of the national highway traffic safety administration. this is a study where teams of crash investigators looked at the causes and can should bidding factors of the sample. it was severe enough that emergency services were dispatched to the scene. the study had a fairly in-depth perception of driver fatigue. this involves not only police reports of drowsy driving, the interviews by the investigators with the drivers and their family and others about whether they were fatigued at the time of the crash, work schedule, medications, etc. this is aside from video-based evidence, probably some of the strongest ascertain it we have of drowsy driving in crashes. this study only looked at crashes that occurred between 6:00 a.m. at midnight. it did investigate crashes that occurred between midnight and 6 a.m. when as you might assume drowsy driving is significantly more prevalent. next slide. in this study, excluding the hours swing drowsy driving crashes are known to occur, researchers found 2% of drivers involved in these crashes were asleep at the time. an additional 5% were fatigued. nearly a third of crashes were unable to assess whether the driver was fatigued or not. this was suggest as many as 3% of all crashes involved a driver who was asleep. this is only out of the 60% of crashes were researchers could ascertain that. next slide please. the last study i will talk about is the study that i did for my employer, the aaa foundation. this was a study that used the national highway traffic safety administration's national automotive sampling system. he sample crashes in which a motor vehicle is total way from the scene. i looked at data 1999-2008. over 47,000 crashes involved over 80,000 vehicle driver's in total. data on drivers attentiveness was assessed not just from police reports, but interviews. 2% of drivers were drowsy. researchers reported 45% of cases they were not able to assess whether the driver was drowsy or not. the distinction between the driver not in drowsy and the investigators not being able to make a determination is important. i was able to use a statistical method of multiple -- to estimate the proportion were investigators couldn't make that determination. it is a method in which you build a model using data that is related to the probability a driver will be rousing or the operability -- will be drowsy or the probability. using this model identify other cases in the data where drivers drowsiness is actually known that are the most similar to the cases you are looking at and make a random draw from the distribution of the data were drowsiness is known to estimate the drowsiness in cases where investigators were not able to assess. next slide. that is a message the national highway traffic safety administration has used since 2001 to estimate the proportion of fatal crashes. in 45% of cases, driver drowsiness was unknown. i estimate that 4% of drivers in all crashes were drowsy. 7% of the crashes involved at least one drowsy driver. among the more severe crashes those in which an occupant was hospitalized as a result of injuries sustained, i estimate as many as a percent of the drivers were drowsy. -- 8% of the drivers were drowsy. 12% of drivers involved in fatal crashes were drowsy. 17% of fatal crashes involved at least one drowsy driver. based on the number of people killed in crashes each year, that would imply over 5000 people each year are killed in crashes involving a drowsy driver. next slide please. a couple of comments and observations on these studies collectively. no single study can provide the answer. there is reasonable convergence across multiple studies that the proportion of crashes involving a drowsy driver a much higher than is reflected in the official statistics. a couple of trends are although the studies with the best ascertainment are also based on some of the less representative samples of drivers in crashes, we see the study with the best ascertainment of drowsiness goes with in-depth interviews, those with video data of crashes estimates the highest proportion of crashes involving drowsiness. probably unrealistic to expect solid ascertainment or drowsiness in data that is collected by officers who arrived at the scene of the crash. on the data front, it is important to distinguish the driver was not drowsy verses where they can't make a determination. that is absent from most data we have. to summarize, survey show as many as two out of five drivers report having fallen asleep while driving at some point in their lives. 11% of drivers admit doing that in the past year. 4% report doing that in the past month that is consistent across multiple studies by different organizations over the span of a decade. official statistics estimate 1-2% of crashes involve rousing driving began likely -- the study with the best data and research methods consistently show a much higher prevalence of drowsy driving. on the low end. on the high-end come as many as 24% involving drowsy driving as the cause or can should bidding factor. the data tends to suggest the prevalence is on the high-end of that range. thank you. >> thank you. in your presentation, you are very clear that there are severe and safety consequences. i'm wondering if you could tell us in simple, general terms what is affect in combating fatigue. >> the primary countermeasure is adequate sleep. healthy sleep. it was your other speakers talk about what healthy and unhealthy sleep is. occur not too far before the driving episode. sleeping one night and two days later driving with inadequate sleep. the other most commonly used way of coping with drowsiness is caffeinated beverages. there is evidence that caffeine can promote alertness, but no drug is a substitute for sleep. it is not a chemical sleep. it is forcing areas of your brain to use -- to be more alert. blocking some molecules that produce sleep in the brain. they cannot block all of it. once the pressure for sleep is very high, caffeine cannot stop drowsiness. it also doesn't last a day. you take a couple copy, it depends on how many -- how much caffeine is in the coffee and what your sensitivity is. none of it will last in your bloodstream more than 3-4 hours at most. then you are faced with the problem of what do you do now if you are still drowsy? you will have to sleep. it won't keep you going indefinitely. it is probably the most common way people attempt to cope with sleepiness when they have to drive. it is a limited countermeasure. alas, the options are quite limited. what are the medical implications? >> i'm also wondering if you could speak briefly on the nature of differences with respect to fatigue and sleep. what effect and problems does a post to you as a researcher? >> there are differences in how rapidly people will become impaired. everyone becomes impaired. take some people longer than others. as had typically, we don't understand the basis for it. those who take longer to get impaired are the minority of the population. you're not even sure that there always -- it is so is the same. we don't understand what it is that makes them less of vulnerable. once you are awake too long, everyone will become impaired. even if you don't feel it, it doesn't mean fewer not experiencing drowsiness or lapses. the only way to be safe and certain is get adequate sleep. >> you cited 2009 data. i am wondering if you had a chance to look at anything more recent and if you could comment on what it shows. >> the data from 2009 was the last data cited in official the nationalby traffic safety administration. -- those statistics are based on data that is collected annually and is presently available through 2012. the most recent data from 2012 shows that 1.6% of drivers involved in fatal crashes in 2012 were believed to be drowsy or fatigued at the time of the crash. >> what would you say is the general trend for the drowsy driving data? and, if so,rend which direction is it heading? >> in official statistics, there does not seem to be much of a general trend. proportions ine the official statistics may have decreased slightly. as i talk about in my presentation, i believe that is a vast underestimate. i would not look to the data published in those sources for evidence of a trend or lack thereof. in the study that i conducted that looks at eta from 1990 99 1999-2008, in that data, there was not evidence of an increasing or decreasing trend in the proportion of the crashes that involved drowsiness.

Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20141127

anyone. i resist on that, totally. we don't go out to dinner very much with people. that part of our life seems to have dwindled. much more when we came here over the years, whatever the time pressure was, whatever the reason, there is less of that hat goes on. i have too much respect for too many. and oh i will regret it and kick myself and say how could i have mentioned him without mentioning her. >> let's go to presidents, then. it was the president that you have enjoyed working with and haven't enjoyed working with? > i've worked to a degree with ll the presidents. i haven't had a bad relationship with any president, for starters. i think president obama is very, very thoughtful, very careful. does how to weigh pros and cons and gets along very well. i thought president clinton was unusual in terms of his ability, not just a think through issues and he has got a heck of a great mind, but he also had the ability -- has the ability, still very vigorously -- to connect with people on a personal way. people will tell you, if you are in a room with 100 people and bill clinton and you go from person to person, you will think he is the only one in the room that is aware of you. that is the kind of unusual ability that he has to connect with people. he is sympathetic in a very genuine way, the underdog, which i have always liked and admired in him. he has a sensitivity to people and their basic needs. again, i have gotten along with all the presidents to varying degrees. i don't want to say anything egative. i disagreed with the second president bush more than anyone. i disagreed very strongly on he iraq war. it was a policy issue, not a personal issue. i voted against going to war because i thought it was based on misrepresentations, particularly by vice president cheney, these allegations which were untrue at the time, known to be untrue by the ntelligence committee. there was some connection between al qaeda and saddam hussein. that allegation was not true, and it was repeated over and over again, particularly by vice president cheney. that, i thought, was really wrong. they created some real tension etween us. i won't say it was physical, particularly, but i have been very critical and very hard on vice president cheney. i think you really was the main leader that got us into that war. it wasn't the weapons of mass destruction issue, because i thought saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. you don't attack people because they have weapons of mass destruction, or else we would have attacked the soviet union or they would have attacked us, for pakistan, or india. just because we had a -- we thought he had weapons doesn't give us the reason to attack him. it is only if he is threatening to use them or has used them against you that he would then say, ok. what was presented to the american people before the iraq war, which gave them the greatest heartburn in a second bush administration, was representations to the american people, including at the u.n. unwittingly, by general powell, who tried to get rid of the stuff. it was not supportable. he still ended up with statements in their which were not accurate. but at least he made an effort efore he made his presentation to the u.n. i am not as critical of general powell as i am of vice president cheney. >> is it tough to understand what members of the house have to deal with? it gets pretty complex. >> oh, yeah. you have staff to help you hrough it. i get involved with banks and tax codes and wall street because of the permanent subcommittee on investigations. there are a lot of issues and the defense area which i can't expect too many of my colleagues to really know in-depth. they are involved in energy issues or other issues which are technical that would be a mystery to me which i have to get up to snuff on when the staff comes to say there is a vote tomorrow. yeah, i would say 70% of the things around here are things you are not in the middle of, that you have to become familiar with and take a position on. that is where the fabulous staff comes in. you really rely on staff, heavily. >> has it that hard to have your brother in the house? >> he is my lifelong best buddy. he has been my best buddy for 53 years. we got three kids and six grandkids and my brother -- he has been an amazing brother, an amazing member of the house of representatives. and boy, his colleagues just raise about him and love his demeanor, is reaching out to his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. he is a really nice guy. a nice, thoughtful guy. best brother anybody ever had. >> come january, what is your advice to the new senator from michigan? >> its gary peters. i don't think i have to give him too much advice on the house of representatives. he knows where the traps are. t would mainly be, i think, to remember that this is the house of representatives. majority doesn't rule in the senate. of minority rights which exist here, for a good reason, can also be abused. they can be abused by some of the filibuster threats some of our team party members are using in order to get their way on something where they shouldn't have their way. t needs to be protected. the rights of the minority also need to be used with some discretion so that the majority doesn't react by trying to restrict the rights of the inority. that is what is the problem here, that because there were some abuses, excesses, by some of the republicans, just some, he had to do what he did in ways which created roblems. this is not the house. whoever the minority is next year, to raise issues, debate issues at length, to bring it to public attention. >> senator, moving back to your apartment in detroit -- what are your retirement years? what is your plan? where are all your personal papers going? >> they are going to michigan. we don't know what i will be doing. there are a lot of opportunities, and we are not focusing at all on that now. i have got to and a half months of hard work ahead of me. we are going to save the hard decisions for later. we know we are going to go home, know we have a lot more time with three kids and six grandkids. >> senator carl levin, democrat of michigan, retiring. > thank you. he's serving his last term after losing a primary runoff in may. congressman hall sat down for an interview. this is 35 minutes. >> can congressman ralph hall, you've been in the house of representatives since january of 1981,aged you'd hoped to be here for one last term. the voters thought otherwise. how are you processing your departure? >> well, everything that i checked on during that that i was 10 to 12 points ahead. it told me one thing, don't listen to people who tell you you're ahead and you're not. i really thought i had it won. come back that night at 3:00 in the morning, i had to think as i was driving back out to my house how it happened. when i got home i pulled out old elections and checked to see how i did there. looked at robert's rule. i figured it out finally. the guy got more votes than i did. i got beat. that's all there is to me. it didn't bother me but it hurt me because it hurt some of my friends. >> how are you feeling about leaving? >> well, when i wanted a doughnut this morning, i went down and get it. i've been a member of congress for 34 years and to finally get beat, if i was a manager for a be able or football team and i had 34-1, i'd be in the hall of fame, so doesn't bother me. and really it didn't bother me to get beat, because i wasn't just set on going. i had 18 co-chairman who were chairman of my 18 counties in my district that were supporting me and wanted me to run, and i did. it's -- better judgment was it -- it's hard toe get elected if you are 90 or 91-year-old and they don't tell people that you run two miles every morning, that you vote 99 plus percent of the time. there's a difference between that and old people. that wasn't brought up by the dallas morning news because they're not in my favor. >> what's your secret, how are you running two miles a day? >> i was told once, i was in the cattle building, if one of your he was has a bull calf. go out there and lift the bull calf every day over the fence, day after day after day until e's a full-grown bull. then when you can still lift him over the fence and throw him over the fence, you can throw the bull enough, you can run for congress. that's what they told me. so that's how i got into the congress, i left the cattle business and came here. >> well, you've switched parties during your time here. you've seen the parties change so many times. what's your handicap, let's start with the democrats what do you see when you look at the democratic party? >> well, the democrat party was a two-party party, democrats and liberal democrats. i wasn't really liked any better by the republicans than the democrats, because i voted in my district. i had the sam rayburn district. go up there and do a job and tell them you're doing a good job. i'm not a golfer. i don't hunt. i don't fish. i campaign when i have a day. i go walk a building out or something. i've campaigned all my life. i think that's the way i stayed elected ed. >> staying with the democrats, today is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives >> oh. yeah. there's three or four conservatives over there now. >> that's it? >> yeah. >> so its changed. >> they'll slowly become republicans, probably. of course it would make sam rayburn if he were alive. he was our kind of emocrat. because when he looked back over his shoulder as he went to bonham texas to die, he left a balanced budgets, so he was a onservative. >> when you look at the republican party, your challenger was a tea party member. is the republican party -- >> i don't know if he's a tea party member or not. you can't direct mail them. we don't know who they are or where they are. i always tell them to look at my record. >> are you seeing the party split the same way you described the democrats between fiscal conservatives and -- >> well, we have different types of conservatives as republicans. we have those that are hell for leather, republicans, you know, and it's got to be a republican if you're right. you have to be a conservative if you're right, and that's what we're beginning to learn, i think. >> other members that we've talked to have talked about how the congress has changed in the past during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off hours, which played out in more compromise. do you find that the place has changed in that regard and, if so, why? >> well, pretty much. when i got here i was a conservative democrat. i didn't really fit. republicans really didn't want me and the democrats didn't like me. for example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. i flew with the old bush. he flew torpedo bombers. he was of a famous family. he didn't know me until after the war was over. i knew those people and add mired them. i had good luck with the bushes and good luck with reagan. i have a picture on my wall made with reagan, looking at our boots at camp david. the first six months he was there, i thought i'm going to be at camp david for the rest of my life. that was 30 or 40 years ago. i haven't been back. i don't know if i participated correctly out there. i asked him some questions about marilyn monroe. he was a good guy and easy to talk to. ronald reagan came here when a man, one person could make a difference. i doubt that they can today. >> why so ? >> i don't know. he came here accepted as a conservative democrat or republican, but he'd been a democrat like all the rest of us, so he was in between -- he was a in-between deal there. somehow we felt like you could trust him. i got called the first 30 days he was here, because when he hit here, he hit here with a plan to increase pay for the military and yet cut the budget. that was his goal, and he had enough folks to get it, do it. when he got here about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said, if you don't hang the way you're voting on funs and on abortion, we're not going to support your bill. of course, you know what they told them, to go jump. but then he had to have some help out of the democratic party i was a democrat there. billy townsend was a democrat. we had some strength over there. jim baker could tell the president, call one of those guys and they'll help you. they said, well, i know ralph hall better an i know any of them. we'll have the president call him and maybe he'll pick up those votes that he lost. they needed about 10 votes. they told me he was going to call me. so i was ready for him. he called and said, this is ronald reagan. i said, yeah, i believe that. martha, come over here. he thinks i'm reagan now, but -- i want you to hear him. he said, no, i really am. another guy came over and no, it's really him. that's the funny type things that you don't forget. >> sure. >> when i knocked on the door he told me to come over there. i need some time. i had a program like he did. i always wanted to put a president on hold. i put him on hold about two minutes and i said, well, i can come over there today, tomorrow, or the next 30 minutes. what you want me to do? he told me to get my you-know-what over there. i knocked on the door. he said one question, what is it going to take for you to elp me pay for the budget? i had an answer for him. >> as you look across the president's ha you've served under, served with, which of them have been the best at working congress to get their legislative -- >> i'd probably have to say reagan. he was so believable, and he had been a democrat, you know, pretty much, but the two bushes were easy for me to work with because i knew them. during world war ii, i had flown -- been at the same base a time or two with the old bush. he was a famous father. i knew who he was. he didn't have any idea who i was. i supported him for some statewide race. i think he got beat the first time. but bushes have always been favorites of mine. because i knew little george when he was nine or 10 or 12 years old. i knew he was never going to be president. but that's what a good woman can do for you. she changed him. you can have me or you can have jack daniels and he made the right choice. that woman probably saved the guy. >> ronald reagan was the best at working congress many >> i think so. >> yeah. >> i think he handled them better. he even went over and tear down that wall and brought cheers rather than jeers. he knew what to say and when to say it. he came when one person could make a difference. i don't think one person can make a difference now. >> a person that you have on your wall. lyndon johnson. what was your impression of him? >> he landed a helicopter many our football field and i got to know him then. i went to work for him and i think they were paying me $3 a day to put up his placards, but what i had to do, i had to bring them three placards of the guy they were hiring me against. they really were hiring me to tear the other guy's placards own. i got to application later because he was a good -- politics later. >> you left politics for a while and worked in private industry but decided to come back and make your bid for national elected office. who drew you back in after your time in private life ? >> i was in business and i was buying and selling land. i was -- rockwall county's the smallest county in texas, 254 counties and my little county is the smallest. dallas spills over on us and as they spilled over on us, it increased the value of our land and the counties next to us. i bought a lot of land and bought it and sold it at that time right time. during the 80's when every hit bottom, i was running for offers and i was trying to come up here. if i had been doing what i'd been doing, i'd have been broke. but i wasn't. all through the 1980's i was trying to stay -- keep my head above water because i knew i was coming to congress. >> why did you want to come to congress? >> well, sam rayburn and my mother were schoolmates at mayo college, a little college before east texas teachers state college at commerce, texas. now it's texas a&m at ommerce. they elected a good friend. she wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke out and asked me to help me get an officer, get officers training school. he didn't call her back or write her back. he came to her breakfast table. he said i can't hire him because of his grades. i graduated in a class of 38 but i graduated number 38. i always have been able to make it some way. somebody's been good to me. >> was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress? >> yeah. because my mother spoke to highly of me. a bunch of republicans came to me one time when i was a county judge in rockwall and was going to put up money for me to run against sam rayburn. my mother asked me, if you do that, where are you going to get breakfast, you know? i wasn't going to run against sam rayburn. he was a great man. i think sam rayburn could still be speaker of this house or could be -- i think, oh, joe dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. i think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when -- like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. >> your office is in the ray burn building. did you do that intentionally? >> no. i always wanted to get here. the first year i was here, we drew for offices. there were 9 of us and i drew up in 9 . >> last again? >, the last again -- >> i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. so i stayed where i was. finally, i stayed here so-long had my choice and i picked this place. this is the best office on the hill. >> why is that? >> you're closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when you're an ld guy, rest r5078s. got everything an old guy wants. >> you're surrounded by lots of photographs. >> so proud of all these people. they're all friends of mine. i don't know what i'm going to do with all these pictures. i have neil armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. he came and worked for me. he was a good guy. buzz aldrin's been to my home several times, and in rockwall, you know, they weren't sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. and of course i took him to the schools. you know, seniors vote. this guy, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action -- elections. he called me from new york. i have tickets, you come pick me up. he said the dallas morning news is knocking around. first thing i learned is you on't fight people. he came here and it helped e. they helped me through the campaign. i've had good luck and all kinds of help. to be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then. i've always had that and had people who helped me. the regulation -- when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and they'd tell the people in my district that they weren't going to get any republican money, the money would go with e. wasn't too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but they're still my friends. >> what are you going to do with your pictures and papers? are they going to a university somewhere? >> i'm told they're going to take all the pictures to texas a&m, reproduce them and give these back to me. hope they do. >> your papers are going to texas a&m? >> yes. everything i have are going to texas a&m at commerce. my grandson went to school there. my wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and got her degree from there. so we're east texas state teachers college people. didn't know there was another school anywhere. >> many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the space program. will you talk about what you think your legacy of the space program has been? >> well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. he'd been in my home and he and i were good friends. i'd referee a fistfight that he had with a guy that's one of his best friends even today. i knew people who later were somebody. he called me in and said what do you want to be on. i said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. i want to be something with that space station. i've gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. i think i belong on some kind of space program. he put me on both of them. it would take you 10 years to get on either one of them now days. i got lucky. >> what are you proudest of? >> well, i'm proudest that we -- i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. they came down to one vote on that. and i got dr. debakey to walk the floors with me. we had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. i think that helped preserve that. later they tried to take space out of science and technology. i was a one-man army that taught them to leave space where it was because that's where it belonged? >> why? >> going to the moon? is that transportation? i think that's a little licked. -- a little ridiculous. but it is space, you know, and it's been space forever. why change something like that? what benefit would it be? >> what do you think of this state's commitment to the space program today? >> well, we're hurting. we're in trouble. and it's a lack of money. i have a book over here was written by -- what is his name? he's been before all the committees saying how bad we need the space program. 've asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. they wouldn't do it. so we're at russia's good will by -- we started out giving them $50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. we need to keep going back and forth to that station. we made a mistake when we didn't put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the space program is just not even 1% of the overall budget. and space is so important. every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. we'd lose all our international partners if we didn't do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. it's just important. we may have to defend the next war out of space. who knows? i told dr. debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, we'll lose the cure for cancer. and what's more important than a cure for cancer? it's important. >> i want to go back to your ilitary service. in recent decades, fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about -- >> yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. if he lost four votes in the entire congress he'd go grab them by the tie. what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill? he was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. >> what about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war? how important is that? does it matter? >> it matters if you've been side by side with someone or you've gone to your buddy's funeral or you have a grave named after you. as a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. no that's not what i want to hear them say. i want to they're them say "i thought i saw him move. so i'm glad to be alive and stay alive. i'm 9 is years old. i don't hurt anywhere. i'm not on anybody's wait list or anything like that. i still run a couple miles a day. i vote 99% of the time. i do most everything everybody else can do. i run two miles every day. i don't run it every day but there's never three days goes that i don't run it. i ran this morning. >> one thing that's changed is media coverage of congress. you mentioned ink by the barrelful. he people working in ink are hurting nowadays. it's all the internet and social media. how do you think that's affected things? the social media and the press? >> there's been some good and some bad. i've popped off and said things to people but i've said things i wished to hell i hadn't said, you know. i think we're more aware when we talk to you folks of what we're saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. i think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. a lot of these politicians, they shoot at everything that's that flies and claim at anything that falls. they'll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. >> do you have any allies in the senate? >> we have two good senators? i've always liked the senators over there. got along with them fine. never wanted to run for the senate. i was in the texas senate 10 years. >> why wouldn't you want to run for the senate? >> anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, they'd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think -- he's still got it. he won't run against anybody. so i'd be standing there. i'd be -- lot of times i've been lucky just because i was standing there. >> so the senate itself, though, and the house of representatives, what can you do here that you can't get done in the senate? >> pass a bill and you have to really have the votes over there. and you have to raise so much money. the cost of running for office is a major issue up here. it's why i could never run for senate. i couldn't raise that much money. >> you've had to raise increasing amounts of money to run for the house. what do you think about - >> i've been here so long, it came easier for me. finally, this last time i ran but i was spending money on surveys. they were telling me i was 10, 12% ahead when probably i wasn't. and i -- i guess i thought i was, but it was -- it didn't turn out right, but it didn't hurt me but it hurt my people so much. i had grown people crying there. i had one guy that's 6'8" that drives me places i go. i felt water hitting my head and i looked up, this old guy was crying. i said come on, you're 6'8", you're a grown man. it's nothing to cry about. i'm not hurt and please don't y'all be hurt. it hurt my friends and folks more than i could -- more than it hurt me. i could seat it coming. i'm ok. i think i'm pretty lucky to be 91 years old. i got a job until december 31st now. how many guys have that? very few. >> what are you going to do with your time after? >> i will keep working, i have to. i have expensive grandchildren. my little grandchildren are going to texas a&m. i'm going to teach them -- i'm a texas guy but i'm an aggie now. they kiss me on the face, every kiss costs me a hundred dollars. it's worth it. they were kissing me good-bye and i had a girl who worked for me before. she was strange. not unattractive but never had any boyfriends. she was going to open the door for them. i said are you going to kiss me? she said, no. i said why not? she said, well, when you were 19 or 20, would you want to kiss a 90-year-old women? i said that's the greatest answer to any question i've een asked. that i've heard. i think that's something people ought to hear. >> if you were asked to tell a story from your service here, the best -- helps people understand what it's like to be a member of congress, whether it's a funny story or a story of power or whatever, what would that story be? oh, i don't know. john connolly was by far the greatest politician i ever knew. he was governor of texas. should have been president but they only had one delegate and couple million dollars wasn't nearly enough. i've had so many things that people helped me because i was a democrat and then when they helped me because i was republican. but i've always got along with - neither one of them were in love with me, but neither one of them really hated me. >> did it give you some bargaining advantage that you -- >> i think so. i've had to knock on the door of the white house and imply -- one time, i said that i think the president wanted me to vote a certain way, and i said, well, i got a brother that always wanted to be a federal judge. he turned and the guy who was standing there, he said hall, this isn't a place to ask him for this. i said hell, he's asking me for something, i said i'll ask him for something. while he was thinking about it. he turned and asked them if he could get confirmed. i said wait a minute, mr. president. he's not a lawyer. that brought a big laugh. every time i saw him after that, he laughed because he liked him because he wasn't a lawyer. those are some of the things you remember. >> so any regrets? >> no, not really. hat i've done, i've had -- whether i was a democrat, if a republican would run against me or announce against me, whoever was president up here, whether it was one of the bushes or a reagan, that's most of the time i've been there, they would get in the race with me and tell them they weren't going to get any republican money. i stumbled into it because i got along with everybody. i don't think i have an enemy in the entire congress. a guy that says well, that's his bill. let's vote against him or that's his bill so let's vote for it. i don't have an enemy here. i run -- don't run the thing. i'm the oldest member of congress to ever stand on the floor and cast a vote. you'd think that ought to buy me something. maybe that ought to buy me more money or maybe i shouldn't have to run for re-election. but doesn't change anything. i'm just like everybody else. >> but you made it into the history books. >> but i'm there, and they call me at first over here to talk to me about like egypt, should they arm the people that were out in the crowd there throwing rocks at their capital -- or arm the people that were in the capital that were mistreating the people who were in the streets. my suggestion was on both of -- arm both of them. they both hate is. well, they haven't asked me back over there since so -- i still think i was right. both of them hate us. why would we help either one of them. >> when you lost your bid, did you hear from anybody? >> everybody i know has a copy of it. >> was it george senior or -- >> it was george jr. >> what did it say? >> he said i was a good man, a good man, all that kind of bull. i've been honored ever since. i've had about 10 entities, republican women, and i'm going home friday. f i'd known they were going to deify me like they did all this time, i would have quit a long time ago. >> congressman, i don't believe that. >> well, it's true. i don't really have any enemies. i have -- bruise easily. i never won a fistfight in school. i was 6'2", and looked like ichabod crain. i didn't have any girlfriends, but i didn't have any fist fights either because i wasn't much of a fist fighter. but i've always been fortunate to be in the right place and the right spot. and you have to have that kind of luck if you go where i've gone. in years as a county judge, the smallest county in texas. i was the youngest county judge, i guess, in the state of texas. then 10 or 12 years in the senate, texas senate to pass some very important legislation in the senate, legislation that saved jobs at texarkana there, when you feel -- you work together with them you save 500 jocks, it gives you a good feeling. all right, if you can get a good boy in guam that wants to be stationed at fort worth because his grandfather because he's dying, it's a good feeling to be able to do things like that to help people. that's what i've got out of being where i was, because i got to do things to help people that otherwise you can't do. i even see a little difference now. i'm a defeated candidate now. i see some difference out there now as to how people treat me. or they don't need me because i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i'm going to be at my grandkids. i'm going to go hunting. i haven't been hunting in so ong that i don't even know where my gun is. one guy in the depression said he ate so many rabbits, he freezes on dogs. i'm not that bad. i'm going to travel some. le i'm going to help some people who need help. i'm going to look after grandchildren as i've maybe not looked after as i should have or had time for them but i'm going to have time for them. >> thank you for spending time with c-span, >> thank you. it's been a honor to be here ith you. >> on the next washington journal, an update with general todd semonite. and then the pentagon's response to ebola and historian david pa trusea. "washington journal" begins live at 7:30 a.m. eastern on -span. >> this week on c-span c-span is featuring the departing members of congress. >> congressman tony hall who was my best trend in congress. we had been in a little group together for 32 years. he asked me to go to ethiopia during this family in. just got up and had on proirpgses and said could i go to ethiopia. they said sure. it was a very bad family in. i got to a camp and the didn't r -- embassy want me to spend the night. one said if you spend the night, i will spend the night. we spent the night in a little hut and it rained the next day and the plane couldn't come back. that was life-changing experience. e saw people die and it was -- in 1985, took me to romania. you may remember churches and i saw people persecuted, and those two trips were kind of bookends. the poor, the hungry and religious rights and freedom. and since that time -- >> and also on thanksgiving day we will take an american history tour through native american tribes. that's following "washington journal" then at 1:30 enjoy the groundbreaking ceremony with former secretaries of state and clarence tomas, judge alito and sown i can't sotomayor. for a complete listing go to c-span.org. this week international talks thoses with iran, policies talked at or about odds of signing a treaty before the june deadline. this is an hour 1/2. >> well, good morning, everybody. my name is bob einhorn from the brookings institution. i'd like to welcome you to this panel discussion, the iranian nuclear program, and on recent developments in the last few days in vienna, and as you i'm sure all know yesterday in countries and the reached an agreement to extend nuclear negotiations for a second time. hey agreed to seek political arrangement, a political agreement within about four agreed to they finalize details of any agreement within seven months or approximately by late june. the arrangements under a deal called the joint plan of action. so iran's nuclear program will remain frozen. and all -- in all criminal respects, and the modest including the enyes mental repatriation of a small amount of oil revenues that have been held up and restricted. banks mostly in asia. but during this period, the st impactful of the economic sanctions, those on banking and oil will flame place. secretary of state john cary gave a press -- had a press event yesterday in vienna. and the secretary made the case for an extension of the negotiations. he said that real and substantial progress had been made even in the past several days. new ideas had been put on the table. what he was indicating was for the first time in a while, there was some momentum in the negotiations. the talks were not dead in the water, and i'll quote him. he said, we now see the path toward potentially resolving some issues that have been intractable. e went on to elaborate how the interim deal had constrained iran's nuclear program and said that as a result the world was safer today than it was one year ago. he indicated based on reports by the international atomic agency that iran had complied with its obligations under the interim deal. he pointed out that the most powerful sanctions remained in place, and that they provided continuingest? for iran to come to terms on a comprehensive agreement. in general he made the case that a continuation of the interim deal was very much in the interest of the united states and he saided that considering how far we had come , it would have been a errible mistake to walk away by the time of the november 49 deadline. other parties in the talks! expressed similar views. the president of iran indicated sterday that he was moreless pleased with the extension. a xpressed confidence that deal could be completed. other u.s. partners in the p 5- plus one expressed similar views. even the israelis expressed similar relief that a hasty yet still agreement had not been released, and they seemed kent with an interim deal at least for the time being. but at the same time while indicating that progress had been achieved, secretary john ry was very frank in insisting that -- gaps on secondary issues but gaps on some of the fundamental issues, he made it clear that he considered success to be far from inevitable. and subsequently administration pokesman have noted that while iranian me the negotiators had demonstrated some greater flexibility than they had previously demonstrated that ran had yet to demonstrate the realism tired close the deal. anticipating critics on critical. former colleagues of his on critical -- on capitol hill. secretary john cary called on the critics on the hill to give the obama administration the benefit of the doubt and to hold off on additional sanctions. the white house spokesman reiterated this relief that such additional sanctions would not be helpful and in fact would be disruptive of the further negotiating process. congressional reactions have been mixed. some have indicated they want to hold off and others have indicated they want to achieve a deal. it's important that we obtain additional leverage, and we can only do that by enacting additional m sanctions legislation. and they are calling in the new congress, perhaps even in the lame duck session but more likely in the new congress where republicans control the senate for additional sanctions. so what is the likelihood in the coming months a comprehensive deal will be achieved? what are the gaps that need to be closed in what kind of deal would be in the best interest of the united states and of its partners in the middle east. we have an excellent panel today to provide answers to these questions. we have on my right, gary, who is executive director for search at the harvard belfour center. gary, until a while ago was the most senior white house official in response to both weapons of mas destruction. and was intimately involved in the iran negotiations. to my immediate left is david all bright whom you know is founder and head of the -- titute for science and and -- of the institute for the ience and isis not the bad isis but the the good isis as you know it's all up to them to ecide the iranian -- we also have ed lavin whom i've known for many, many years. ed is a former senior staff member of the senate foreign relations committee. he knows the hill and how the hill approaches the these sanctions. better than almost anybody else. so i'm delighted ed is joining us today. so without further adieu i'm going to ask each of the panelists to make some opening remarks. i will then ask a few questions and provide a few comments and k a few questions then respond. >> thank you for coming. first i -- it involves consoling our nervous middle east allies and most difficult of all it involves direct negotiations with the iranians. now, the failure to reach an agreement over the weekend is entirely iran's fault. i think it's important to understand that the u.s. through the p 5-plus one put and a very reasonable -- eventually build up to a larger capacity as part of its nuclear e power program and to defer -- all of this in exchange for raduated sanctions relief. but the iranians as far as i can tell have continued to take unrealistic and extreme positions. they refuse to give up a single one of their operating centrifuges and insist on a . id buildup and maybe this is just sharp bargaining tact i cans. maybe as we approach the new deadline, we will start to recognize iranians showing they need to exercise more flexibility. but the other possibility which i fear may be true the supreme leader does not feel compelled to make fundamental concessions in giving up or limiting iran's efforts to acquire a nuclear weapons capability. because in his view an iranian economy is stabilized under a joint plan of action and under the new economic team and the extreme leader may believe the ukraine crisis and the rise of isis gives iran a much stronger bargaining position and makes it more able to with stand the conscience jenses if the joint plans of action -- if that's the case, in 11 months, we'll be exactly where we are today. so what can we do to put pressure and persuade him to change some of these extreme positions? well one thing we can change is for not to offer any new proposals until the iranians make a serious counterproposal. second, i think we need to going talk to our allies. both oil consumers and produce, about the need to prepare for the possibility that the joint plan of action may collapse, and we may want them in the case of oil consumers like japan and india, we may want oil producers like the saudis continue to to supply. the iranians will know we are beginning to make these preparations and that may help them understand they need to make concessions. i think we need recognize that getting rarba and china onboard will make these sanctions not possible especially in the case of ukraine. but right now the ones that really bite are the ones that that the u.s. and its allies ve imposed, and i think we ought to prepare to go back to the sanctions tract. and third, i why would like see congress work on threags would increase leverage to authorize the president to impose new sanctions without at the same time giving the iranians an excuse to walk away from the talks and blame the united states. sed going to talk about this? more detail. will this work? i honestly don't know. it may be that supreme leader hominy is determined not to budge. that case i believe the process for extending the joint plan of action past july is going to become very, very difficult. and that would be unimportant to. that would return us to the status quo where presumably things, and i me think we have to accept and recognize that even if we resume the sanctions campaign, this is not going to immediately force reason to capitulate. it may over time, but in the meantime they will be creeping forward with their nuclear program. i don't think iran is close to getting nuclear weapons, because i think their options are constrained by the near it would protect a military attack. but they can continue to build up their stock pile of centrifuges. i don't think the u.s. is close to attacking iran or even israel as long as they continue to look at these constraints. but i think our best chance of eping it going >> thank you. i'd first like to say i agree with gary in that iran is not wanting to make concessions and the u.s. i think in come cases has been willing to go too far in order to try to find an acceptable deal. unfortunately, i think it was true in july. i was in vienna at the end of he negotiations. iran was not willing to make the concessions there, because they didn't seem to have instructions that would let them make these. the same was true over the past weekend. so i don't know what it's going to take. but i think from my technical point of view, it's going to require a very high level political decision in iran in order for this to work. now, what i'd like do as bobal suggested, just go through some of the particular provisions in a deal. but i'd like to first start with the interim deal itself. we've been scrutinizing the i.e. reports for years. and it became afirnte us a month ago that there's a little bit of fraying on the edges of this -- of the concessions iran's made on the interim eal. i think my group isis would say it's certainly iran pushing. things on current the deal there has to be -- ter-defined centrifuge it also makes more sense that there's a blending down of 20% or as pioneered in the july deal that more than 20% ends up in the fuel for the research reactor. again, that hasn't gone that well. as expected. i expected the deal would have 25 kilograms of 25% of enriched your rain yum in the -- but it's not more than 5 milligrams because of the ambiguities and what it means to use 25% in the fuel assemblies. so i think that is another ing -- place where you could now the sort -- of core issues of did iran have a nuclear weapons sflam are parts of that program possibly continuing? will iran build nuclear weapons in the future? that's what i've always heard is the u.s. position. they would have to staff i.a.'s views. but i think now that we have seven months, i think it's important to return to the position that iran should satisfy the i.a.'s concerns before there is a deal. and i think it's very hard to argue that seven months is enough, and i would say it's dangerous not to do that. i followed the i.a. activities and worked with them during the iraq inspections in the 1990's and history matters. you have to know the history nord know what's going on noun. and i think that's true in any area. you're going to be very limited in your ability to understand what's going on if you just turn your back on the history. but it's more important in this case because the i.a. spts some of these activities may possibly be ongoing, so it's not just a itself question but a question of what could be happening today? and gets right to the issue of verifyibility of this democrat. if it's not addressed, one of the things iran would slearn if it could stone twal i.a. and i.a. is to -- the going to be the principle mecknoism verify any long-term deal. so it doesn't make sense to undermine their ability and in a sense encourage trorn defy the i.a. after a deal is signed. so i think with seven months, there's plenty of time to settle this, but i do think it's going to rely ever require iran high decision from to do that. now they differ on a number of centrifuges. eative ideas to shift -- out of iran and but i don't think there's been an agreement on ow far they would. and also the primary goal has to remain getting the number of centrifuges down and down, the u.s. has put on the table to -- but the 0 i.r. 1 u.s. wants to strength thisen that by then having the l.i.u. stocks come down significantly. another is what's going to happen centrifuges that would be declared zphess iran has declared their dismantlement and destruction. how do you deal with that? you're talking about 15,000 or so i.r. one os or i.r. two's staying in place. so how are you sure those can't be operated quickly? and we don't have a good answer if you want iran to need six months or more to restart them. and i don't think the u.s. has a good answer. and iran doesn't seem to be willing to -- so i think there's quite a few issues, and let me just stand on the verification side. the i.a.e.a. is going to have to do more than it normally does. iran has been years in non-compliance with the safe guarding practices and they have to use the absence of -- and in those issues, they are well defined what's needed and iran has not been so willing to engage on these measures that would be supplementry to what's alled the additional protocol. >> ed? >> they have approached it roughly the way you have heard the first two speakers approach it. with a fair amount of concern, sometimes cynicism. not really believing. the problem that they face is their options are not very good either. o if you look past most of the proposalals that have been made in the last year or so. they have died in subcommittee. they have not even got on the full committee. even on the house side of the republican control. so when you hear people say at harry reid has bottled up sanctions, don't believe it. everybody has bottled up sanctions bills. and the reason they bottled and it gets much better publicity to come out and say, we need to have the iranians and -- end all enrichment. we need to destroy or dismantle all of their illicit infrastructure. well, if you could get a complete surrender on these issues by iran, that would be very nice. it's just that nobody -- literally nobody is predicting that iran is going to do that. and so if you want a piece of legislation that would help our me the negotiators rather than antagonizing our allies and ending the negotiations you have to come up with something lse. it isn't easy, as i say. one other proposal that's been made in the past, and you can expect to see more of these in the future is a requirement that any agreement with iran survive a process similar to hat which is used for arms saltse or peaceful nuclear cooperation agreements under which congress would have the ability to pass a resolution of disapproval. and you might a ask, can't they always do that? the answer is oh, yeah. they can always do that. the difference is that under ose other two bodies of law, congress sets up expedited procedures so that they actually can get a vote on a resolution of disapproval. and they don't allow implementation of an agreement to begin until congress has had 30 or 60 days in which to try to pass one of those resolutions. of course, such resolutions can be vetoed. and so congress would still need to have a 2/3 majority in both houses in order to impose will l on -- impose its on the president. but you can imagine giving -- continued iranian unwillingness to compromise that eventually they would get those 2/3 already, if they had something good to propose. so what is it that they could propose that might actually be useful? and here i'm talking only for myself. i may talk with others, but i haven't foundor -- found others willing to get down to this level of detail just as perhaps our me the negotiators haven't found the iranians willing to get down to this level of detail. you can imagine a sanctions bill that was taylored to what to e offering -- tailored what we are offering so that the bill would say, we won't invoke more sanctions unless we cannot get some of the things we're willing to sign a deal on with iran. that would be a very difficult piece of legislation for would , because it involve giving up on more max mallist goals. excuse -- excuse me, my voice does sometimes give out. but it could help the negotiations if we backed up our me the negotiators to the extent that they could say, here is how far we can go. and we can -- implement a deal that goes this far. but if it goes further, we may not be able to get congress to upport it. our me the negotiators are able to say that in principle. you can imagine legislation that would enable them to say that more precisely. the problem with that legislation would be that it assumes iran wants a deal. if iran doesn't know whether it wants a deal, then all of that legislation won't do much good. but it's a possibility. other possibilities, you can beef up verification. you can give more help to the iaea. you can give more direction to u.s. intelligence and other agencies. you can set up reporting requirements that require the executive branch to report to congress on a regular basis. what's going on. you can set up exceptional reporting requirements that say, if iran does x, the administration has to report to congress on what it's done, what we are doing about it, and why we shouldn't give up and just cut off the money that's going to iran. there are precedents for legislation of that have sort largely in the realm of resolutions and advice to consent arms control treaties. so congress knows how the write provisions of that sort if it wants to. beyond that, you could give the president -- and here i'm stealing from gary. you could give the president ore sanctions of forji without necessarily requiring him to use it. and so you would give him more stwords hang over people's heads. but it would still be up to him whether to cut the hair. so there are things you could do. i don't think either in congress or in the administration anybody has sat down and said, let's work together on what we could come up with. i think it would be very interesting as a staff exercise to have them work on that, and see if they could come up with good legislation that might be enacted some time in the spring time. my friends tell me that they don't expect anything to happen in the lame duck session. so we are looking at the end of next year rather than the end of this year. >> that's it for now. >> thank you ed. i'm going to ask you a couple questions then open it up to the audience. first, i agree with gary that the main reason we don't have a deal yet or the outlines of a deal is because iran has taken a rigid position, an unrealistic position. it hasn't been prepared to reduce its operational enrichment capacity, and it's insisted on, you know, very early lifting of sanctions before it's even demonstrated ompliance with its obligations to the iaea. and i agree with some of the reasons why they haven't shown flexibility. perhaps they believe that the obama administration needed them on regional issues to defeat isis. perhaps they thought the president was in a weak position and perhaps they thought they could muddle through with their economy. there could be a number of reasons boucek taxpayer john cary says there seems to be a difference. i wonder what you think, gary. what's the likelihood that the president and his me the negotiators will go to the supreme leader and say, look, boss, this hasn't worked. the americans are not going to cave. we need to show greater flexibility. do you think domestic politics in iran would permit that? >> that's really the key question, because it is supreme leader who is giving the instructions to his negotiating team, and it was his public red lines that iran won't give up any of their existing capacity and insists to building up to 190,000 what they currently video by 2021, which his me the negotiators are operating with. so you're not going to get is a deal unless the supreme leader authorizes more flexibility to the foreign ministers. and it's hard to -- obviously the supreme leader hasn't whispered in my ear what his views are. but i believe based on iran's behavior over the last couple decades since the supreme leader has been the supreme leader, that hesitate committed to the nuclear capabilities to defend iran against enemies, and as well to assert iran's dominance in the region and its ability to intimidate its neighbors. but at the same time he has shown sensitivity to the risks at pursuing a nuclear weapons program. and we know when the threat and risk has been high enough, he has been prepared to accept limits. so he froze the -- in 2003 after the u.s. invaded iraq and afghanistan and didn't unfreeze it until it became clear that the u.s. was bogged down in both areas, and he calculated how safe it was to resume. most recently i think president obama's campaign has been effective inform iran accepting at least a freeze even though they have not fulfilled other rules. i'm sure they would very much like a deal. the president of iran campaigned on getting the sanctions lifted. if they recognized the only way to get the sanctions lifted was to meet some of the american demands, they would lobby the supreme leader. but i'm sure they have lobbyists saying the americans are weak. we're strong. we can afford to stand firm. up until now the supreme lead editor has tended not to side with the -- my thoughts are to the extent we can -- i think we have to convince him that we are prepared to walk away from these negotiations and go back to sanctions. >> gary's issue touches on an issue i'd like comment on briefly. that's the issue of whether iran is bound and determined to have nuclear weapons. to build nuclear weapons. i think it's clear that at least until 2003 they had a -- what the iaea calls a structured program to do experimentation and procurement and research to rest the design of nuclear weapon. but something happened in 2003, and i think we have pretty good information, and the iaea does at they suspended a pretty important element. the design of the nuclear explosion device. and the community has held ever since then that while iran has insisted keeping the option open to acquiring nuclear weapons, it has not yet made -- ecision to >> i think the purpose of an agreement needs to be to deter any future decision by iran's leaders to make that choice. to decide to go from a capability, which they have, and will never get rid of, to the actual acquisition of nuclear weapons. and i think an agreement can do that. an agreement can do that by mayocking the process of eye hoiring nuclear weapons very detectable and having very good monitoring arrangements and making it very risky and very clear that if they are caught breaking out of an agreement, they will be l pay a very hard price. so in my view, an iranny decision to go for nuclear weapons is not inevitable, and i think we can effect -- affect that choice. but this question of breakout time. this is not the only criteria the u.s. administration uses to judge the value of an agreement, but it's an important one. it's important in large part because david all bright has written so extensively and persuasively on the issue. and that is to increase the amount of time that it would take iran from the time it makes a decision to break out of an agreement to leave an agreement to the time it would produce enough highly enriched your rain yum to actually fabricate a first nuclear device. and in the past, david has that we should seek a breakout time of somewhere between six and 12 months. the administration has said publicly that it is looking for a breakout time of around 12 months. now my question to david is, whether we are headed toward a breakout time. one of the recent developments that has given some people optimism in this regard is the report that iran seems to agree at it can send a substantial amount, even most of its low-enriched your rain yum out of its territory to russia. and according to david's analysis, although i'm going to let him speak for himself, is if you reduce the amount of your rain yum stocks, this gives you flexibility to agree to a higher number of centrifuges and still maintain a significantly long breakout time. is, how are things shaping up? do you think this is acheeable? >> i think it is. e don't feel at isis, the good isis, we were originators of this idea. it flows from discussions with gary and others that really centered down on what kind of reaction time do you need in order to respond to an iranian effort to go for the bomb? i think wendy sherman captured it best in september when she said we must be confident that any effort by tehran to break out of its obligations will be so visible and time-consuming, the attempt would have no chance of success. and so, if you then start saying, ok, what does that mean in terms of things like a century huge program, then you come up to the concept of breakout. what breakout allows you to do is convert a desired reaction time into the number of centrifuges, and it involves fairly sophisticated mathematical modeling in order to try to be more realistic, and you end up with numbers if you want reaction times of six to 12 months, you end up with numbers that you want to get down to the 2,000 to 4,000 levels. and those are driven by limiting the stocks particularly of 20%, which, again, is still there. it's quite a large stock of 20% enriched uranium. people mistakenly say, well, we got rid of the 20%. what happened is you converted the 20% to oxide form. it's still there. there's been some amount blended down, and that's gone. but more than enough for a bomb in terms of netanyahu's way of thinking about this. that amount still is there, it's just in oxide form, and therefore, it takes longer, and that's good. you'd have to go back to hexafloor i had. how much will be there in the final deal? we think there's going to be some, and we look at 50 kilograms, and that can affect breakout. you do want to drive down the amount. the level of driving down the amount of 3.5% can have a very positive impact on the breakout times. and it gets -- i think it's one of the reasons why the u.s. raised their numbers from 2000 up to in 4,000. they feel that if they drive down the stocks significantly, then their breakout time will remain at 12 months. but they can go up to a higher number of centrifuges. i think my group in u.s. government agree that you can't let it go up to 10,000, 8,000, because, again, these centrifuges are making this 3.5% all the time, and so these limits become somewhat meaningless when you get to numbers like 8,000 because they're going to be making so much every month that it wouldn't take them long to stockpile enough to be able to have enough for a much more rapid breakout. but again, i should also say that there's a debate under this, why focus so much on the declared program. going back to what wendy said, part of the reason is you want to limit them across the board. of course we're worried about a covert breakout, but we think there's an interrelationship. they have lots of centrifuges, 10,000 centrifuges or more. they have a fairly robust manufacturing complex. very hard to monitor that, even with these additional supplemental air measures, the i.a. is expected to get under a deal. you'd have a hard time that could then go off to a secret ite. up to the reduce stocks and that strengthens whatever you get. >> thank you, david. you suggested some very constructive ways that the ngress could contribute to the negotiations through additional legislation. that's not going to be the initial instinct of many members of congress, especially in the new congress. i would assume that a number of senators would want to reintroduce some of the legislation that they've introduced before that would, you know, require the administration to achieve some unrealized objectives, and failing that, to impose sanctions that are very far reaching. i would also assume, especially based on what secretary kerry said yesterday, that the administration would strongly oppose further, any further sanctions on the grounds that it could be disruptive of the talk and that it could lead to divisions within the international sanctions coalition, which is necessary to put continuing pressure on ran. i think that might be the initial confrontation, draconian sanctions versus no new sanctions. what are the chances that from that initial confrontation will come a real negotiation over trying to get legislation that serves to reinforce rather than to undercut the negotiating process. notice, everybody, what we've just switched from the question of negotiating with one foreign country, iran to the question of negotiating with another foreign country, congress. they are not that dissimilar. i would say that you are correct, bob, in your guess as what will happen first, and that is perhaps a kabooki that must be played out, and it will put pressure on the marshal ation to democratic forces in the enate. passage of a draconian bill. now, all of you who are used to complaining about republican obstructionism, remember, in six weeks, it's going to be democratic obstructionism, and that's going to be good obstructionism rather than bad obstructionism if you're a democrat. the democrats will have a lot of ways to block legislation if they choose to use them. what the administration has to worry about is a situation in which democratic senators give p on the administration. not so much giving up on iran, but losing confidence in the administration's ability to negotiate well or to handle them well. assuming that the administration is able to convince democratic senators that it will do the right thing with iran, what it probably so, i would think should do, is say to democrats, look, you have to work with us to kill the bad bills. we will work with you in private to see if there is a good bill that you could come up with afterwards or that you could come up with to pull out of your pocket when you're in floor debate, but in some ways to show that we are not averse to any deal with congress, we are merely averse to bad deals with congress. so i would think there would be some pressure to talk, to explore possibilities for useful legislation. s i say, they won't be easy. but it is amazing how, if you try, you can come up with something. one of the things that has been impressive about u.s. negotiators with iran is how many good ideas they have come up with. i would simply note to our audience that even david has come up with very interesting ideas that he slips in in the middle of paragraphs in his testimony. for example, when he testified last week for the house, he said a sounder strategy involves including disabled steps with the destruction of a limited but carefully selected set of equipment. for example, the deal could include the destruction of ertain key equipment such as pressure or flow measuring equipment. what he was saying was to the house committee was that if you want to reach a deal with iran that lowers the number of functioning centrifuges, that doesn't mean that you have to destroy the centrifuges completely. rather, you can destroy some critical parts of the centrifuges, while leaving the shell and much of the inards still standing. that was the very interesting proposal. it's the kind of thing that i would guess, although i don't know, our negotiators have been discussing with iranian negotiators. one of the things i would hope for in the coming months is hat if iran does not show more willingness to work out a deal, he secretary kerry would relax his determination to keep everything secret. and would instead be a little more open about how creative the p-5 plus one has been in he offers it has made to iran. so that iran will realize if the negotiations fall apart this spring and summer, it won't look good for them. and i think we have to prepare the world for the possibility of accepting that we are the good guys. >> i agree, especially with that last point. if talks break down, there's oing to be a blame game. and what we've seen over the last year is the current iranian team is very good at public diplomacy. many of them are western educated. they speak very good english, and negotiations are carried out in english these days. they are going to make a strong case, and they've been making a strong case, that they're the reasonable party. i don't think they have been the reasonable party, but i think much of the world has the impression that it's the p-5 plus one and the u.s. in particular that's been the intransigent party. i really do think that's wrong, and i think it would behoove the administration to begin getting the word out especially if the iranians continue to be rigid, but so far, the administration has taken the understandable view that we don't want to negotiate in public. let's not put all our ideas out there, even if they're reasonable ideas that the iranians should have accepted. so this is -- this is a problem potentially in the future, and i think the administration will need to develop a good public diplomacy strategy. well, i think our panelists have put some interesting material before you, given you plenty of thought for questions. so let's open it up now. please wait for the mic, identify yourself, and ask a very concise question. our hand was up first. >> thanks very much. i write the mitchell report. dr. albright's decision reminds me of daniel patrick moynihan's way of doing gun control, let them keep the guns and stop producing bullets. i wonder if -- there are two very quick questions i'd like to pose because i want to make sure i hear the answers. the first is, has anyone actually seen and read the fatwah from the supreme leader, and second, given the supreme leader has spent the last quarter century creating a foreign policy that is focused is merica as say tan, there, has there ever been consideration given to have negotiations as they get to this point between iran and hers that take place without u.s. at the table so that he doesn't have to give in to say tan. -- give in to satan. >> my understanding is nobody has seen a written version of the fatwah, but i'm sure iran will produce one for you at the right time if it's part of the deal o. your second question, the only way this negotiation will succeed, if there's a deal between washington and tehran, there's no other possible formulation that will lead to an agreement, because those are the principal antagonists on this issue. there's no proxy for the u.s. that could step in and negotiate a deal with iran. i think one of the positive developments since the joint plan of action was agreed is that we see more and more that most of the real negotiations are taking place in a bilateral context with the u.s. representing the p-5 plus one and convincing the other members of the p-5 approximate plus one to support the initiative and idea, but you can't negotiate at seven or eight. it's just simply impossible to sit around the table with all those parties and do the kind of give and take that's ecessary for negotiations. so if you're looking for a positive side, it's that the iranian have finally got over the huddle of meeting directly with the united states, expert to expert, and working on text. for most of president obama's first term, when bob and i were directly involved, the iranians refused to meet with us. we offered many times to sit down and actually negotiate or discuss the issues, and they were under instructions to not meet with us. they've at least persuaded the supreme leader to allow the direct discussion take place. of course, he says in public i'm very skeptical that a deal is possible because i don't think the americans will accept our nuclear program. and you know what? he's right. the united states won't accept iranian's nuclear program. >> i'm told there were even secret bilateral u.s. talks, even when ahmadinejad was president. also, you probably remember that between 2003 and 2005, the so-called e-3, britain, france, and germany, met with iran without the united states, but those talks didn't get very far, which supports, i think, gary's point that the u.s. needs to be a key. >> i must admit that reading today's posts, i'm not as optimistic about the next seven months as people on the panel might be. but given that, if during the next seven months nothing happens further than what has happened so far, what does the just think beyond the we've talked about sanctions and so on, but there is another party, namely israel, who could take some sort of action, and what does the panel think would happen if we progressed to next seven months, have not gone any further, and what would the u.s. and what would israel be doing at the end of that seven months. >> i want to make a general point that applies not only to your question, but some of the comments of my fellow panelists, and that is the best answer to a lot of these uestions is we don't know. we are operating under conditions of uncertainty. we would be better off accepting that uncertainty than trying to make predictions when, frankly, we don't have the basis on which to make them. but your question raises an interesting point that we haven't quite covered. which is, could the joint plan of action become a steady state that exists into the indetermined future, and would that be good or bad. my guess is my more expert colleagues, if pressed to the wall, will say we're not sure. it's certainly a better state than we had before to joint plan of action. but there is the risk that it will impede progress to a real , al because it's such an easy econd-best solution. i think that some of our talk of increased sanctions is oking for a way to force a decision on tehran's part that this ve us off of surprisingly comfortable dead center. >> gary, you wanted to say -- >> so i would say most of our partners in the p-5 plus one with the possible exception of france are quite comfortable with the status quo. wove succeeded in freezing most elements of iran's nuclear program, and yet we prepreserved the sanctions regime. i hear the same thing from some of our israeli friends. they recognize that the status quote, while not solving the problem, at least had stopped the clock or slowed down the clock on iran's nuclear program. i think there's an argument to be made that the extension of the joint plan of action is at least holding the issue steady. but my sense, and ed can speak to this as well, my sense is, in this town, there's no patience for an endless extension into the indefinite future, unless you can demonstrate that you're really making progress toward tackling some of these tough issues. so i think the obama administration is operating in a political climate where it's got to show forward movement. it can't just play out the clock for the rest of this administration, keeping the status quo in place. as i said, i think many israelis would not that be averse to continuation of the status quo. >> i think one thing, in sense to reinforce what ed said, i don't think any outcomes are inevitable. i don't think it's inevitable israeli will strike mill tailor. washington is very polarized, and you hear comments that if the deal breaks down, it's war. you know, i don't think those are true. i think the deal has some benefits to both sides. both sides have some real incentives not to see the escalation getting out of control. so i think it's more likely that things will kind of, if the deal ends, that there will be something that replaces it that is neither war nor a situation with extreme sanctions. >> and i think israel, you should look deeper into the israeli government and netanyahu to see what they're really thinking. i don't think they want to go to war. they know that if they strike, they can strike once, and that's it. iran can simply build back. they know the dilemma, if you are going to pursue military strike, it has to end the program. they can't deliver that. i don't see a great incentive here in this country to back them up. >> i might as well chime in too. you know, if talks break down at the end of next june, discontinued, what will the israelis do? it will depend on what iran does. if they ratchet up their program aggressively, that will lead to a lot of israeli concern. but if they play it smart, which i think they will, the iranians have given every indication of playing it smart, they'll be very slow. maybe they'll turn on some machines that haven't been fed with gas. maybe they'll increase at the margin. but i think they will avoid highly provocative actions. and if they do, if they're smart enough to do that, i think the israelis will be frustrated, but i don't think they will see a compelling need to launch a military attack. >> i'm from nuclear intelligence weekly. twoif questions. rst, i think for you, bob, how much attention do you think the united states might take towards working with the russians to try to work out more details of their agreement with the iranians, if we're assuming that the goal here is to try to regularize the iranian nuclear sandram give them some justification for some sort of commercial enrichment going forward. that's number one. and i mean both the reactor deal, but more importantly, i suppose the fuel deal, end of that deal, which was pretty vague when the announcement was made. and secondly, how much scope is there in your view for the united states, if the iranians, i mean, in my own opinion, if they were smart, they would kind of say, look, we have terrible machines. we need to get better machines, so let's focus on r&d. we don't need the capacity right now, so give them that. and look further into the, but his has become such a point of symbolism that it's hard to do it. but let's say they were finally willing to concede on capacity. how much scope is there for our side to concede on the duration f the agreement? >> i'll take a quick whack at it, and the others will try. i was in moscow last weekend, so i had an opportunity to speak to the russians about this. i think despite the real difficulties u.s. and russia are having in their bilateral relationship, the russians have played a constructive role in the iran negotiations. it's been in their interest to lay constructive role. the russians don't want the iranians to develop an industrial scale enrichment capacity. russia would like to provide fuel for whatever nuclear power reactors that it sells to iran. in fact, its recent deal a couple of weeks ago, the russian strong belief is that for any additional reactors, russia should provide the fuel, and if that is to be agreed by iran, this would seriously undercut the iranian argument that it needs to have a large-scale, indigenous enrichment capability. also, you've seen reports, and i mentioned it earlier, about the shipment from iran to ssia of most of iran's low enriched uranium f. that materializes, and my understanding is details have not been worked out, quantities and so forth, but if it does work out, then this would be very positive step, because as we've discussed, the lower the amount of enriched uranium stocks, the more leeway you have to accept a higher number of century huges. so i think the russians have played a constructive role in heir own interest. well, this is to be worked out. they have to figure out the costs associated with that, with the transport of the material to russia. you know, there's a question whether this is technically suitable to be used in the fuel, and there could be additional costs associated with that, so lots of details have yet to be worked out, but i think the russians have played a scrktive sandrole will continue to play. in terms of if everything else works out, the u.s. would be more flexible on duration of an agreement, i believe the duration is very, very important, and i think that's one of the issues where the u.s. has remained very firm. the iranians have talked about a pretty short duration, you know, five years or something like that, because they would like all constraints to end so they could ratchet up quickly to an industrial scale enrichment capability, but that would drastically reduce the breakout time line. nd this would be unacceptable. i think the constraints have to last a long time. my preference would be 15 years or so, and this would provide sufficient time for iran to demonstrate a track record of compliance with its obligations and begin to restore confidence in its peaceful intent. i don't know if any of the others want >> i think the centrifuge rnd is a separate issue. with -off ot a posed sic -- the problem by centrifuge r&d is that they have brake for thursday, then have much more capable machines. with maybe ld get by fewer machines if they did decide to build a covert plant. [inaudible] yes, but that does not mean anything. but the iranians try to play, you know, it offers a very productive way. it is a little

Transcripts For CSPAN Congressional Career Of Representative Ralph Hall 20141128

became the oldest serving member. in an interview with c-span, congress -- representative hall reflects on his years and the space program. this is about 35 minutes. congressman ralph hall, you have been in the house of representatives since january of 1981. you had hoped to be here for one last term. the voters thought otherwise. how are you processing your departure? havell, of everything i checked on during that race, i was 12 points ahead. and it taught me that you never depend on people who tell you you are ahead when you are not. coming back that night at 3:00 in the morning, i had to think as i was driving out to my house, that happened. i pulled out some old elections and checked how i had done, and i finally figured it out. the other guy got more votes than i did! i got beat! that is all there is to it. it hurt me because it hurt so many of my close friends. >> how does it feel now when you're getting down to the wire when there is only a matter of weeks until you are leaving the institution. how do you feel about that? >> i have been a member of congress for 34 years. if i was aget beat, manager for a baseball or a football team, and i had 34 and one, i would be in the hall of fame. it really did not bother me to at beat, because there was cochairman of my 18th, in my district, who have been supporting me and encouraging me to run. and i did. if youard to get elected are 91 years old. i also told people that you run two miles every morning, that percent of the time, but there is a different look towards old people. all 90 urals are not built the same, in other words? >> yes. >> what is your secret? >> i was told one time when i was in the cattle business, if one of these heifers has a you liftll calf, if him every day over the fence day after day after day after day until he is a grown bull, when you can still throw the grown bull over the fence, then you can run for congress. so that's why a left the cattle business and came here. >> over the course of your time here you have switched parties and you have seen the parties changed so many times. what is your handicap -- but start with the democrats today. what he think when you look at the democratic party today? partywas really a two democratic party. it was conservatives and liberals. was not liked any better by republicans that i was by democrats as i always voted for my district. a colleague told me to go up there and do a good job. so i stayed in touch. i am not a golfer. i don't hunt, i don't fish. i campaign when i have a day. i go walk. so i have campaigned all of my life. i think that is how i have state elected. >> i'm interested in the party. staying with the democrats, is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives? about three or four real conservatives over there now. they will slowly become republicans probably. i've told a few that they really ought to be republicans. one of them was really our kind of democrat. he left a balanced budget. he was a conservative. >> and when you look at the republican party today, your challenger in the primary was a tea party member. >> i don't know if he is a tea party member or not. i don't know how you become a tea party member. we don't know who they are or where they are. i tell them just to look at my record. seen the party also split the same way that you describe the democrats, between fiscal conservatives and -- >> well we have different kinds of conservatives as republicans. you have to be a conservative if you are right. we are beginning to learn, i think. other members that we have talked to, i have talked about how the congress has changed during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off-hours. that played out in more compromise. do you find that the place has changed in that regard, and if so, why? here,tty much, when i got i was a democrat but i was a conservative democrat. but i really did not fit. republicans did want me and democrats didn't like me. for example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. because he wasas of a famous family, but he did not know me until after the war was over. but i knew some of those people and i admired them. so i had good luck when the bushes were in presidents -- were in the white house, and i had good luck with reagan. i went with reagan to camp david in the first six months. i thought, i could spend the rest of my life up. that was 34 years ago, and i have not been back. i don't know if i have not participated properly out there, but there are questions you want ask a present. he was a good guy and easy to talk to. ronald reagan went here when a man could make a difference. here and was accepted as a conservative democrat or as a republican, because he had been a democrat like all of the rest of us. so he was in between. somehow we just felt like you could trust him. for the first 30 days when he was here. when he hit here, he hit with a plan to increase the pay for the military, and he did not cut the budget. that was his goal. he had enough folks to do it. but when he got here, about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said if you don't change the way you are voting on guns and on abortion, we are not going to support your bill. of course, nobody told him to go jump. but that he had helped out of the democratic party. i was a democrat then, stenholm was a democrat, so we had some strength over there. jim baker could not tell the -- could tell the president to call one of those guys. so he could pick up those votes that he lost. he needed about 10 votes. he told me he was going to call me. so i was ready for him when he called. when he called and he said, this is ronald reagan. i said, yeah, i believe that! wife, come over here this guy thinks he is ronald reagan! said, knowing really is me. those were the kinds of things that happened you remember always. >> sure! who would not forget a call from the president like that? >> he came over and knocked on the door and wanted to talk to my program. when i put the president on hold, i kept him on hold for about two minutes. hered, you can come over or i can go over there, and he told me to get my you know what over there. he asked me what it was going to take to get his vote to help them cut the budget and to increase in pay for the military, and of course i had an answer for him. when you look across the presidents that you have served under and served with, which of them have been the best with working with congress? >> i would have to say reagan. he was so believable. he has been a democrat, you know, pretty much. but the two bushes were easier for me to work with because i knew them. him in world war ii and i had flown, so the old bush, he had flown for pedal bombers and i had flown for the famouso he was the most first father, and i knew who he was be he did not know who i was. bushes have always been favorites of mine. i knew little george when he was nine, 10, or 11 years old. 25 or 26, when he was and i never thought he would be present, but that is what a good woman can do for you. she changed him. she made him make the right choices. the woman probably save that guy. >> so ronald reagan was the best at working congress? >> i think so. i think he had less better than said teare went and down that wall. he brought cheers rather than tears. he know what to say -- he knew what to say and when to say it. there is a photo on your wall of a president that you did not serve in congress with, a texan, lyndon johnson. what is your relationship with him? was 12 or 15 years old, he landed a helicopter in a football field and i got to know him them. i went to work for him then. i think they were paying me three dollars a day to put up his placards. but what i had to do to get one of his placards put up is to bring him three placards to a guy that he was running against, so they were really hiring me to tear the other guy's placards down. 30-35le was sheriff for years, and he got me into politics. he was a good sheriff and well thought of, and always a good man. >> you left politics for a while and worked in private industry. you decided to come back and make your bid for a nationally elected office. what are you back in? -- what drew you back in? >> i was living in the smallest county in texas, and dallas spills over upon us. it increased the value of our land. i bought a lot of land and then sold at the right time and was buying and selling land, but during the 80's, when everything hit the bottom, i was running for office and i was trying to come up or. if i had been doing like i had done before and buying all the land, i would have been broke. but i wasn't. all through the 80's, i was trying to keep my head above water because i knew i could come to congress. >> why did you want to come to congress? and my mother were school colleagues. iny went to a little college commerce, texas. a little teacher's college. it was a male college then and my mother and nine other males got sam rayburn to run for state senate. they elected him and they have been good friends ever since. she wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke get me intoed to officer's training school. he came directly to her and said for four put him in reasons, and all for reasons are his grays. but i was graduating in 1938 and i was 38 the my class. i have always been able to make it some way. >> so was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress? >> yes because my mother spoke so highly of him. came to be one time when i was county judge. my mother asked me one question and said if you meet him where you going to get breakfast? she i think sam rayburn could still be speaker of this house or could be -- i think, oh, joe dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. i think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when -- like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. >> your office is in the ray burn building. did you do that intentionally? >> no. i always wanted to get here. the first year i was here, we drew for offices. there were 9 of us and i drew up in 9 . >> last again? >>, the last again -- >> i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. so i stayed where i was. finally, i stayed here so-long had my choice and i picked this place. this is the best office on the hill. >> why is that? >> you're closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when you're an old guy, rest r5078s. got everything an old guy wants. >> you're surrounded by lots of photographs. >> so proud of all these people. they're all friends of mine. i don't know what i'm going to do with all these pictures. i have neil armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. he came and worked for me. he was a good guy. buzz aldrin's been to my home several times, and in rockwall, you know, they weren't sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. and of course i took him to the schools. you know, seniors vote. this guy, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action -- elections. he called me from new york. i have tickets, you come pick me up. he said the dallas morning news is knocking around. first thing i learned is you don't fight people. he came here and it helped me. they helped me through the campaign. i've had good luck and all kinds of help. to be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then. i've always had that and had people who helped me. the regulation -- when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and they'd tell the people in my district that they weren't going to get any republican money, the money would go with me. wasn't too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but they're still my friends. >> what are you going to do with your pictures and papers? are they going to a university somewhere? >> i'm told they're going to take all the pictures to texas a&m, reproduce them and give these back to me. i hope they do. >> your papers are going to texas a&m? >> yes. everything i have are going to texas a&m at commerce. my grandson went to school there. my wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and got her degree from there. so we're east texas state teachers college people. didn't know there was another school anywhere. >> many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the space program. will you talk about what you think your legacy of the space program has been? >> well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. he'd been in my home and he and i were good friends. i'd referee a fistfight that he had with a guy that's one of his best friends even today. i knew people who later were somebody. he called me in and said what do you want to be on. i said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. i want to be something with that space station. i've gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. i think i belong on some kind of space program. he put me on both of them. it would take you 10 years to get on either one of them now days. i got lucky. i have friends in high spaces. >> what are you proudest of? >> well, i'm proudest that we -- i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. they came down to one vote on that. and i got dr. debakey to walk the floors with me. we had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. later they tried to take space out of science and technology. i was a one-man army that taught them to leave space where it was because that's where it belonged? >> why? >> going to the moon? is that transportation? i think that's a little licked. but it is space, you know, and it's been space forever. why change something like that? what benefit would it be? >> what do you think of this state's commitment to the space program today? >> well, we're hurting. we're in trouble. and it's a lack of money. i have a book over here was written by -- what is his name? he's been before all the committees saying how bad we need the space program. i've asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. they wouldn't do it. so we're at russia's good will by -- we started out giving them $50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. we need to keep going back and forth to that station. we made a mistake when we didn't put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the space program is just not even 1% of the overall budget. and space is so important. every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. we'd lose all our international partners if we didn't do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. it's just important. we may have to defend the next war out of space. who knows? i told dr. debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, we'll lose the cure for cancer. and what's more important than a cure for cancer? it's important. >> i want to go back to your military service. fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about -- >> yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. if he lost four votes in the entire congress he'd go grab them by the tie. what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill? he was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. >> what about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war? how important is that? does it matter? >> it matters if you've been side by side with someone or you've gone to your buddy's funeral or you have a grave named after you. as a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. no that's not what i want to hear them say. i want to they're them say "i thought i saw him move." so i'm 91 years old. i don't hurt anywhere. i'm not on anybody's wait list or anything like that. i still run a couple miles a day. i vote 99% of the time. i do most everything everybody else can do. i run two miles every day. i don't run it every day but there's never three days goes that i don't run it. i ran this morning. >> one thing that's changed is media coverage of congress. you mentioned ink by the barrelful. the people working in ink are hurting nowadays. it's all the internet and social media. how do you think that's affected things? the social media and the press? >> there's been some good and some bad. i've popped off and said things to people but i've said things i wished to hell i hadn't said, you know. i think we're more aware when we talk to you folks of what we're saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. i think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. a lot of these politicians, they shoot at everything that's that flies and claim at anything that falls. they'll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. >> do you have any allies in the senate? >> we have two good senators? i've always liked the senators over there. got along with them fine. never wanted to run for the senate. i was in the texas senate 10 years. >> you wouldn't you want to go over there? >> anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, they'd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think -- he's still got it. he won't run against anybody. so i'd be standing there. i'd be -- lot of times i've been lucky just because i was standing there. >> so the senate itself, though, and the house of representatives, what can you do here that you can't get done in the senate? >> pass a bill and you have to really have the votes over there. and you have to raise so much money. the cost of running for office is a major issue up here. it's why i could never run for senate. i couldn't raise that much money. >> you've had to raise increasing amounts of money to run for the house. what do you think about - >> i've been here so long, it came easier for me. finally, this last time i ran but i was spending money on surveys. they were telling me i was 10, 12% ahead when probably i wasn't. and i -- i guess i thought i was, but it was -- it didn't turn out right, but it didn't hurt me but it hurt my people so much. i had grown people crying there. i had one guy that's 6'8" that drives me places i go. i felt water hitting my head and i looked up, this old guy was crying. i said come on, you're 6'8", you're a grown man. it's nothing to cry about. it hurt my friends and folks more than i could -- more than it hurt me. i could seat it coming. i'm ok. i think i'm pretty lucky to be 91 years old. i got a job until december 31st now. how many guys have that? very few. >> what are you going to do with your time after? >> i will keep working, i have to. i have expensive grandchildren. i'm going to teach them -- i'm a texas guy but i'm an aggie now. they kiss me on the face, every kiss costs me a hundred dollars. they were kissing me good-bye and i had a girl who worked for me before. she was strange. not unattractive but never had any boyfriends. she was going to open the door for them. i said are you going to kiss me? she said, no. i said why not? she said, well, when you were 19 or 20, would you want to kiss a 90-year-old women? i said that's the greatest thing i've ever heard. i think that's something people ought to hear. >> if you were asked to tell a story from your service here, the best -- helps people understand what it's like to be a member of congress, whether it's a funny story or a story of power or whatever, what would that story be? oh, i don't know. john connolly was by far the greatest politician i ever knew. he was governor of texas. should have been president but they only had one delegate and couple million dollars wasn't nearly enough. i've had so many things that people helped me because i was a democrat and then when they helped me because i was republican. but i've always got along with -- neither one of them were many love with me but neither one of them really hated me. >> did it give you some bargaining advantage that you -- >> i think so. i've had to knock on the door of the white house and imply -- one time, i said that i think the president wanted me to vote a certain way, and i said, well, i got a brother that always wanted to be a federal judge. he turned and the guy who was standing there, he said hall, this isn't a place to ask him for this. i said hell, he's asking me for something, i said i'll ask him for something. he turned and asked them if he could get confirmed. i said wait a minute, mr. president. he's not a lawyer. that brought a big laugh. every time i saw him after that, he laughed because he liked him because he wasn't a lawyer. those are some of the things you remember. >> so any regrets? >> no, not really. what i've done, i've had -- whether i was a democrat, if a republican would run against me or announce against me, whoever was president up here, whether it was one of the bushes or a reagan, that's most of the time i've been there, they would get in the race with me and tell them they weren't going to get any republican money. i stumbled into it because i got along with everybody. i don't think i have an enemy in the entire congress. i don't think people say that's ralph hall's bill, let's vote against him or let's vote for him. i don't have any enemies over here. i run -- don't run the thing. i'm the oldest member of congress to ever stand on the floor and cast a vote. you'd think that ought to buy me something. maybe i shouldn't have to the run for re-election but doesn't change anything. i'm just like everybody else. >> but you made it into the history books. >> but i'm there, and they call me at first over here to talk to me about like egypt, should they arm the people that were out in the crowd there throwing rocks at their capital -- or arm the people that were in the capital that were mistreating the people who were in the streets. my suggestion was on both of them, they both hate us. well, they haven't asked me back over there since so -- i still think i was right. both of them hate us. why would we help either one of them. >> when you lost your bid, did you hear from anybody? >> everybody i know has a copy of it. >> was it george senior or -- >> it was george jr. >> what did it say? >> he said i was a good man, a good man, all that kind of bull. i'm going home for a thing friday. i'd known they were going to deify me like they did all this time, i would have quit a long time ago. >> congressman, i don't believe that. >> well, it's true. i don't really have any enemies. i have -- bruise easily. i never won a fistfight in school. i was 6'2", and looked like ichabod crain. i wasn't much of a fistfighter. but i've always been fortunate to be in the right place and the right spot. and you have to have that kind of luck if you go where i've gone. 12 years as a judge in the smallest county in texas. i was the youngest county judge, i guess, in the state of texas. then 10 or 12 years in the senate, texas senate to pass some very important legislation in the senate, legislation that saved jobs at texarkana there, when you feel -- you work together with them you save 500 jocks, it gives you a good feeling. all right, if you can get a good boy in guam that wants to be stationed at fort worth because his grandfather because he's dying, it's a good feeling to be able to do things like that to help people. that's what i've got out of being where i was, because i got to do things to help people that otherwise you can't do. i even see a little difference now. i'm a defeated candidate now. i see some difference out there now as to how people treat me. or they don't need me because i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i don't like that but it's a hard, cold fact. i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i'm going to be at my grandkids. i haven't been hunting in -- i don't even know where my shotgun is. one guy in the depression said he ate so many rabbits, he freezes on dogs. i'm not that bad. i'm going to travel some. i'm going to help some people who need help. i'm going to look after grandchildren as i've maybe not looked after as i should have or had time for them but i'm going to have time for them. >> thank you for spending time with c-span, >> thank you. it's been a honor to be here with you. >> monday, the final debate for the u.s. louisiana senate seat. the runoff election is saturday, december 6. here are the ads running in connection with that race. alexei mary landrieu. i approved this message. she may get -- >> his record is clear. social security to pay for a tax cut for millionaires. we would lose her clout. >> for this? >> before the end of the year we are going to take whatever lawful actions that i can take. >> that is obama promising amnesty for millions here illegally. as your senator i will fight his amnesty plan. your tax dollars should benefit you. obama, 97%.u barack i will stand up to obama. i approve this message. >> every morning i say a prayer for my kids. i want them to be happy and do their best. bill cassidy is a doctor. fromted to cut $86 million louisiana's. pay for a tax break for millionaires. i don't know a kind of doctor would do that to my kids. >> i mary landrieu. i approve this message. louisiana's children should never pay the price. >> i'm bill cassidy. i approve this message. >> if i had to vote for the bill again i would vote for it tomorrow. >> voting with obama 90% of the time. >> i am happy to see the president of send an extraordinaire record. or disagree with her? >> i'm up for reelection right now. >> now you know what to do. >> live coverage monday night of the final debate for louisiana's u.s. senate seat between mary landrieu and bill cassidy. it begins at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. >> this thanksgiving weekend we continue our look tv and american history tv programming. jonathan i on the history of the rent control pill, and bill nye the science guy on one thinks the teaching of evolution and creation and science is not only wrong, but dangerous. saturday night, just before 9:00. george washington and benedict arnold. fight our complete television schedule and c-span.org and let us know what you think of the program zero watching. us at c-span.org or send us a tweaked. tweake et.us a >> and a bit for the u.s. capitol dome restoration project. official spoke about the scaffolding that surrounds it. workers demonstrated the techniques they will be using to repair the crack's. speakers included after-tax of , and john hogan. this is 30 minutes. >> good morning. my name is justin kiefer. thank you for joining us today. , thewing brief remarks dome restoration and construction manager will walk through a live demonstration of the tools and techniques used to repair the dome. additional information and still photos can be found that www. aoc.gov/media. if the have follow-up questions please contact me. i would like to introduce the 11 architect of the capitol. >> thank you. good morning. thank you for joining us on this cold morning. i'm pleased to announce the scaffold you see behind you is complete. this is a significant milestone for us and our dome restoration project. number ofvide a details on that in just a few minutes. first i would like to introduce senator john hogan. senator hogan is the current ranking member of the legislative branch subcommittee.

Transcripts For CSPAN Congressional Career Of Representative Ralph Hall 20141130

>> what's your secret, how are you running two miles a day? >> i was told once, i was in the cattle building, if one of your he was has a bull calf. go out there and lift the bull calf every day over the fence, day after day after day until he's a full-grown bull. then when you can still lift him over the fence and throw him over the fence, you can throw the bull enough, you can run for congress. that's what they told me. so that's how i got into the congress, i left the cattle business and came here. >> well, you've switched parties during your time here. you've seen the parties change so many times. what's your handicap, let's start with the democrats what do you see when you look at the democratic party? >> well, the democrat party was a two-party party, democrats and liberal democrats. i wasn't really liked any better by the republicans than the democrats, because i voted in my district. i had the sam rayburn district. go up there and do a job and tell them you're doing a good job. i'm not a golfer. i don't hunt. i don't fish. i campaign when i have a day. i go walk a building out or something. i've campaigned all my life. i think that's the way i stayed elected ed. >> staying with the democrats, today is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives >> oh. yeah. there's three or four conservatives over there now. >> that's it? >> yeah. >> so it's changed. >> they'll slowly become republicans, probably. of course it would make sam rayburn if he were alive. he was our kind of democrat. because when he looked back over his shoulder as he went to bonham texas to die, he left a balanced budgets, so he was a conservative. >> when you look at the republican party, your challenger was a tea party member. is the republican party -- >> i don't know if he's a tea party member or not. you can't direct mail them. we don't know who they are or where they are. i always tell them to look at my record. >> are you seeing the party split the same way you described the democrats between fiscal conservatives and -- >> well, we have different types of conservatives as republicans. we have those that are hell for leather, republicans, you know, and it's got to be a republican if you're right. you have to be a conservative if you're right, and that's what we're beginning to learn, i think. >> other members that we've talked to have talked about how the congress has changed in the past during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off hours, which played out in more compromise. do you find that the place has changed in that regard and, if so, why? >> well, pretty much. when i got here i was a conservative democrat. i didn't really fit. republicans really didn't want me and the democrats didn't like me. for example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. i flew with the old bush. he flew torpedo bombers. he was of a famous family. he didn't know me until after the war was over. i knew those people and add mired them. i had good luck with the bushes and good luck with reagan. i have a picture on my wall made with reagan, looking at our boots at camp david. the first six months he was there, i thought i'm going to be at camp david for the rest of my life. that was 30 or 40 years ago. i haven't been back. i don't know if i participated correctly out there. i asked him some questions about marilyn monroe. he was a good guy and easy to talk to. ronald reagan came here when a man, one person could make a difference. i doubt that they can today. >> why so ? >> i don't know. he came here accepted as a conservative democrat or republican, but he'd been a democrat like all the rest of us, so he was in between -- he was a in-between deal there. somehow we felt like you could trust him. i got called the first 30 days he was here, because when he hit here, he hit here with a plan to increase pay for the military and yet cut the budget. that was his goal, and he had enough folks to get it, do it. when he got here about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said, if you don't hang the way you're voting on funs and on abortion, we're not going to support your bill. of course, you know what they told them, to go jump. but then he had to have some help out of the democratic party i was a democrat there. billy townsend was a democrat. we had some strength over there. jim baker could tell the president, call one of those guys and they'll help you. they said, well, i know ralph hall better an i know any of them. we'll have the president call him and maybe he'll pick up those votes that he lost. they needed about 10 votes. they told me he was going to call me. so i was ready for him. he called and said, this is ronald reagan. i said, yeah, i believe that. martha, come over here. he thinks i'm reagan now, but -- i want you to hear him. he said, no, i really am. another guy came over and no, it's really him. that's the funny type things that you don't forget. >> sure. >> when i knocked on the door he told me to come over there. i need some time. i had a program like he did. i always wanted to put a president on hold. i put him on hold about two minutes and i said, well, i can come over there today, tomorrow, or the next 30 minutes. what you want me to do? he told me to get my you-know-what over there. i knocked on the door. he said one question, what is it going to take for you to help me pay for the budget? i had an answer for him. >> as you look across the president's ha you've served under, served with, which of them have been the best at working congress to get their legislative -- >> i'd probably have to say reagan. he was so believable, and he had been a democrat, you know, pretty much, but the two bushes were easy for me to work with because i knew them. during world war ii, i had flown -- been at the same base a time or two with the old bush. he was a famous father. i knew who he was. he didn't have any idea who i was. i supported him for some statewide race. i think he got beat the first time. but bushes have always been favorites of mine. because i knew little george when he was nine or 10 or 12 years old. i knew he was never going to be president. but that's what a good woman can do for you. she changed him. you can have me or you can have jack daniels and he made the right choice. that woman probably saved the guy. >> ronald reagan was the best at working congress many >> i think so. >> yeah. >> i think he handled them better. he even went over and tear down that wall and brought cheers rather than jeers. he knew what to say and when to say it. he came when one person could make a difference. i don't think one person can make a difference now. >> a person that you have on your wall. lyndon johnson. what was your impression of him? >> he landed a helicopter many our football field and i got to know him then. i went to work for him and i think they were paying me $3 a day to put up his placards, but what i had to do, i had to bring them three placards of the guy they were hiring me against. they really were hiring me to tear the other guy's placards down. i got to application later because he was a good -- politics later. >> you left politics for a while and worked in private industry but decided to come back and make your bid for national elected office. who drew you back in after your time in private life ? >> i was in business and i was buying and selling land. i was -- rockwall county's the smallest county in texas, 254 counties and my little county is the smallest. dallas spills over on us and as they spilled over on us, it increased the value of our land and the counties next to us. i bought a lot of land and bought it and sold it at that time right time. during the 80's when every hit bottom, i was running for offers and i was trying to come up here. if i had been doing what i'd been doing, i'd have been broke. but i wasn't. all through the 1980's i was trying to stay -- keep my head above water because i knew i was coming to congress. >> why did you want to come to congress? >> well, sam rayburn and my mother were schoolmates at mayo college, a little college before east texas teachers state college at commerce, texas. now it's texas a&m at commerce. they elected a good friend. she wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke out and asked me to help me get an officer, get officers training school. he didn't call her back or write her back. he came to her breakfast table. he said i can't hire him because of his grades. i graduated in a class of 38 but i graduated number 38. i always have been able to make it some way. somebody's been good to me. >> was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress? >> yeah. because my mother spoke to highly of me. a bunch of republicans came to me one time when i was a county judge in rockwall and was going to put up money for me to run against sam rayburn. my mother asked me, if you do that, where are you going to get breakfast, you know? i wasn't going to run against sam rayburn. he was a great man. i think sam rayburn could still be speaker of this house or could be -- i think, oh, joe dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. i think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when -- like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. >> your office is in the ray burn building. did you do that intentionally? >> no. i always wanted to get here. the first year i was here, we drew for offices. there were 9 of us and i drew up in 9 . >> last again? >>, the last again -- >> i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. so i stayed where i was. finally, i stayed here so-long had my choice and i picked this place. this is the best office on the hill. >> why is that? >> you're closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when you're an old guy, rest r5078s. got everything an old guy wants. >> you're surrounded by lots of photographs. >> so proud of all these people. they're all friends of mine. i don't know what i'm going to do with all these pictures. i have neil armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. he came and worked for me. he was a good guy. buzz aldrin's been to my home several times, and in rockwall, you know, they weren't sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. and of course i took him to the schools. you know, seniors vote. this guy, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action -- elections. he called me from new york. i have tickets, you come pick me up. he said the dallas morning news is knocking around. first thing i learned is you don't fight people. he came here and it helped me. they helped me through the campaign. i've had good luck and all kinds of help. to be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then. i've always had that and had people who helped me. the regulation -- when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and they'd tell the people in my district that they weren't going to get any republican money, the money would go with me. wasn't too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but they're still my friends. >> what are you going to do with your pictures and papers? are they going to a university somewhere? >> i'm told they're going to take all the pictures to texas a&m, reproduce them and give these back to me. i hope they do. >> your papers are going to texas a&m? >> yes. everything i have are going to texas a&m at commerce. my grandson went to school there. my wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and got her degree from there. so we're east texas state teachers college people. didn't know there was another school anywhere. >> many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the space program. will you talk about what you think your legacy of the space program has been? >> well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. he'd been in my home and he and i were good friends. i'd referee a fistfight that he had with a guy that's one of his best friends even today. i knew people who later were somebody. he called me in and said what do you want to be on. i said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. i want to be something with that space station. i've gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. i think i belong on some kind of space program. he put me on both of them. it would take you 10 years to get on either one of them now days. i got lucky. i have friends in high spaces. >> what are you proudest of? >> well, i'm proudest that we -- i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. they came down to one vote on that. and i got dr. debakey to walk the floors with me. we had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. later they tried to take space out of science and technology. i was a one-man army that taught them to leave space where it was because that's where it belonged? >> why? >> going to the moon? is that transportation? i think that's a little licked. but it is space, you know, and it's been space forever. why change something like that? what benefit would it be? >> what do you think of this state's commitment to the space program today? >> well, we're hurting. we're in trouble. and it's a lack of money. i have a book over here was written by -- what is his name? he's been before all the committees saying how bad we need the space program. i've asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. they wouldn't do it. so we're at russia's good will by -- we started out giving them $50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. we need to keep going back and forth to that station. we made a mistake when we didn't put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the space program is just not even 1% of the overall budget. and space is so important. every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. we'd lose all our international partners if we didn't do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. it's just important. we may have to defend the next war out of space. who knows? i told dr. debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, we'll lose the cure for cancer. and what's more important than a cure for cancer? it's important. >> i want to go back to your military service. fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about -- >> yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. if he lost four votes in the entire congress he'd go grab them by the tie. what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill? he was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. >> what about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war? how important is that? does it matter? >> it matters if you've been side by side with someone or you've gone to your buddy's funeral or you have a grave named after you. as a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. no that's not what i want to hear them say. i want to they're them say "i thought i saw him move." so i'm 91 years old. i don't hurt anywhere. i'm not on anybody's wait list or anything like that. i still run a couple miles a day. i vote 99% of the time. i do most everything everybody else can do. i run two miles every day. i don't run it every day but there's never three days goes that i don't run it. i ran this morning. >> one thing that's changed is media coverage of congress. you mentioned ink by the barrelful. the people working in ink are hurting nowadays. it's all the internet and social media. how do you think that's affected things? the social media and the press? >> there's been some good and some bad. i've popped off and said things to people but i've said things i wished to hell i hadn't said, you know. i think we're more aware when we talk to you folks of what we're saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. i think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. a lot of these politicians, they shoot at everything that's that flies and claim at anything that falls. they'll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. >> do you have any allies in the senate? >> we have two good senators? i've always liked the senators over there. got along with them fine. never wanted to run for the senate. i was in the texas senate 10 years. >> you wouldn't you want to go over there? >> anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, they'd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think -- he's still got it. he won't run against anybody. so i'd be standing there. i'd be -- lot of times i've been lucky just because i was standing there. >> so the senate itself, though, and the house of representatives, what can you do here that you can't get done in the senate? >> pass a bill and you have to really have the votes over there. and you have to raise so much money. the cost of running for office is a major issue up here. it's why i could never run for senate. i couldn't raise that much money. >> you've had to raise increasing amounts of money to run for the house. what do you think about - >> i've been here so long, it came easier for me. finally, this last time i ran but i was spending money on surveys. they were telling me i was 10, 12% ahead when probably i wasn't. and i -- i guess i thought i was, but it was -- it didn't turn out right, but it didn't hurt me but it hurt my people so much. i had grown people crying there. i had one guy that's 6'8" that drives me places i go. i felt water hitting my head and i looked up, this old guy was crying. i said come on, you're 6'8", you're a grown man. it's nothing to cry about. it hurt my friends and folks more than i could -- more than it hurt me. i could seat it coming. i'm ok. i think i'm pretty lucky to be 91 years old. i got a job until december 31st now. how many guys have that? very few. >> what are you going to do with your time after? >> i will keep working, i have to. i have expensive grandchildren. i'm going to teach them -- i'm a texas guy but i'm an aggie now. they kiss me on the face, every kiss costs me a hundred dollars. they were kissing me good-bye and i had a girl who worked for me before. she was strange. not unattractive but never had any boyfriends. she was going to open the door for them. i said are you going to kiss me? she said, no. i said why not? she said, well, when you were 19 or 20, would you want to kiss a 90-year-old women? i said that's the greatest thing i've ever heard. i think that's something people ought to hear. >> if you were asked to tell a story from your service here, the best -- helps people understand what it's like to be a member of congress, whether it's a funny story or a story of power or whatever, what would that story be? oh, i don't know. -- >> oh, i don't know. john connolly was by far the greatest politician i ever knew. he was governor of texas. should have been president but they only had one delegate and couple million dollars wasn't nearly enough. i've had so many things that people helped me because i was a democrat and then when they helped me because i was republican. but i've always got along with -- neither one of them were many love with me but neither one of them really hated me. >> did it give you some bargaining advantage that you -- >> i think so. i've had to knock on the door of the white house and imply -- one time, i said that i think the president wanted me to vote a certain way, and i said, well, i got a brother that always wanted to be a federal judge. he turned and the guy who was standing there, he said hall, this isn't a place to ask him for this. i said hell, he's asking me for something, i said i'll ask him for something. he turned and asked them if he could get confirmed. i said wait a minute, mr. president. he's not a lawyer. that brought a big laugh. every time i saw him after that, he laughed because he liked him because he wasn't a lawyer. those are some of the things you remember. >> so any regrets? >> no, not really. what i've done, i've had -- whether i was a democrat, if a republican would run against me or announce against me, whoever was president up here, whether it was one of the bushes or a reagan, that's most of the time i've been there, they would get in the race with me and tell them they weren't going to get any republican money. i stumbled into it because i got along with everybody. i don't think i have an enemy in the entire congress. i don't think people say that's ralph hall's bill, let's vote against him or let's vote for him. i don't have any enemies over here. i run -- don't run the thing. i'm the oldest member of congress to ever stand on the floor and cast a vote. you'd think that ought to buy me something. maybe i shouldn't have to the run for re-election but doesn't change anything. i'm just like everybody else. >> but you made it into the history books. >> but i'm there, and they call me at first over here to talk to me about like egypt, should they arm the people that were out in the crowd there throwing rocks at their capital -- or arm the people that were in the capital that were mistreating the people who were in the streets. my suggestion was on both of them, they both hate us. well, they haven't asked me back over there since so -- i still think i was right. both of them hate us. why would we help either one of them. >> when you lost your bid, did you hear from anybody? >> everybody i know has a copy of it. >> was it george senior or -- >> it was george jr. >> what did it say? >> he said i was a good man, a good man, all that kind of bull. i'm going home for a thing friday. i'd known they were going to deify me like they did all this time, i would have quit a long time ago. >> congressman, i don't believe that. >> well, it's true. i don't really have any enemies. i have -- bruise easily. i never won a fistfight in school. i was 6'2", and looked like ichabod crain. i wasn't much of a fistfighter. but i've always been fortunate to be in the right place and the right spot. and you have to have that kind of luck if you go where i've gone. 12 years as a judge in the smallest county in texas. i was the youngest county judge, i guess, in the state of texas. then 10 or 12 years in the senate, texas senate to pass some very important legislation in the senate, legislation that saved jobs at texarkana there, when you feel -- you work together with them you save 500 jocks, it gives you a good feeling. all right, if you can get a good boy in guam that wants to be stationed at fort worth because his grandfather because he's dying, it's a good feeling to be able to do things like that to help people. that's what i've got out of being where i was, because i got to do things to help people that otherwise you can't do. i even see a little difference now. i'm a defeated candidate now. i see some difference out there now as to how people treat me. or they don't need me because i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i don't like that but it's a hard, cold fact. i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i'm going to be at my grandkids. i haven't been hunting in -- i don't even know where my shotgun is. one guy in the depression said he ate so many rabbits, he freezes on dogs. i'm not that bad. i'm going to travel some. le i'm going to help some people who need help. i'm going to look after grandchildren as i've maybe not looked after as i should have or had time for them but i'm going to have time for them. >> thank you for spending time with c-span, >> thank you. it's been a honor to be here with you. >> as carl levin comes to the end of his final term, he talks about what he hopes the next congress can accomplish and the advice he has for his successor. >> senator carl levin, chairman of the senate armed services committee, why are you retiring? >> a number of reasons. i didn't want to spend these two critical years out campaigning, raising money. i just felt there was too much at stake now, and i have a responsibility for some of those things as chairman of the armed services committee. it is not the way i wanted to spend my time, basically. the wife and i have been married for 53 years, and now 42 of those years have been in public life. we felt it was time. i am also 80 years old now. i just felt it was time to go home, spend a little more time with the grandkids. the main thing was that these two years have gone by and they have been so important in terms of america being at war, but also in terms of recovering from a recession, or as chairman of the permanent subcommittee on investigations -- there are important investigations that need to go on. i wanted to not take time away from that for campaigning. also, the budget situation here, which led to a crazy sequestration, needs to be revamped, to get rid of that approach, the automatic, across-the-board cuts approach that we call sequestration. to do that, it will require some additional revenue, as well as some modification in the entitlement area. we now need to focus on collecting the revenue which is lost because some of the most profitable corporations in america avoid paying taxes by shifting revenue to tax havens, by a bunch of tax avoidance gimmicks, which has happened in the last couple years. you put all that together, it is time not to run for reelection. >> you mentioned campaigning a couple times too. do you like campaigning? >> i like campaigning, i he's raising money. >> why? >> i think there is such a huge role for money in campaigns. it is painful, frankly. to continually ask people for money, particularly if those people have matters in front of the congress. the amounts are not what they used to be. the amounts used to be much more manageable. you could ask people, an average person, for a lot of money. but it is not the unlimited funds that are now available, because of terrible supreme court decisions. people and corporations can be asked for unlimited amounts of money. they can also be kept anonymous, those contributions. and that is a real tragedy, i believe. it has changed the nature of the game, so there is too much money in these campaigns. i didn't feel comfortable being out there, asking for money in this setting. >> what are you going to miss? >> the reporters. my friends in the senate, my staff. i have a fabulous staff and a lot of good friends. we will miss our house. we will miss capitol hill. we like living on capitol hill, we are urban people. we live in the city of detroit, that has always been my home, but we have got a wonderful neighborhood here. we have a wonderful eastern market where we love to shop. there are some things here that i will miss. i won't miss the excessive partisanship. the unwillingness of some to compromise, ideological rigidity. i won't miss that. but i will miss my colleagues. it is a great job. i am not leaving because of the job, i love the job. i love every minute of it, even when there is too much bickering going on. i have got a fabulous job. that is going to be hard to leave. >> legislatively, what sticks out in your mind? >> as much as we've accomplished and 36 years, i don't want to

Transcripts For WTTG Fox 5 News Edge At 6 20121229

if they can't reach a deal, taxes go up on all of us. plus, don't forget the impact on your 401k. audrey barns joins us with the latest. >> reporter: everyone involved in a meeting between republican and democratic leaders described it as productive, yet it didn't produce an agreement and there are two days left to get it done to avoid automatic tax hikes and across-the-board spending cuts. lawmakers involved in the white house summit vowed to keep chipping away at the sticking points to reach a deal. while senate minority leader mitch mcconnell struck an optimistic tone, senate majority leader harry reid sounded cautious, warning americans whatever they come up with by sunday won't be perfect. after the meeting, president obama made it clear failure is not an option. >> if we don't see an agreement between the two leaders and the senate, i expect a beam to -- bill to go on the floor, and i have asked senator reid to do this, put a bill on the floor that taxes on the middle class families don't go up, that unemployment insurance is available for 2 million people, and that lays the groundwork then for additional deficit reduction and economic growth steps we can take in the new year. >> reporter: if the congressional leaders don't reach a deal by december 31st, the financial markets could one is a bit and, consider this. the current congress is only in session until noon on january third. after that, 13 new senators and 82 new house members would take over and try to solve the problem and that is an overwhelming task out of the gate. back to you. >> thank you for. that. we want to get back to the weather. let's take a live look outside. the snow and rain has tapered off here in the district, at least, but it's getting colder. maryland state officials are warning drivers to stay off of the roads if they don't have to be on them and get the latest on conditions with tucker barnes. he has the first look at the weekend weather. >> reporter: things are getting better out there and the storm system is long gone. the winds are picking up and overnight lows below freezing and there is a live look at satellite radar and you can see the rain and/or snow across the region and pushing to the north and east and to new york still snowing, hartford, boston and providence. you so the clearing taking place across parts of the area and we should clear out overnight. parts of the area picked up close to two inches. reagan national, officially a trace and bwi marshal a half an inch and snow totals not impressive but enough to sled on in some cases. 42 at reagan national; dulles, 41 degrees; bwi marshal, 37 and overnight winds pick up, we get cold and breezy out there. the overnight low about 31 in the city and 20s north and west of the snowpack and winds north and west, 10 to 15. more details on the weather and we'll look at the sunday forecast, a big redskin game, and of course, the new year's eve celebration as well. back to you. >> thank you, tucker. winter weather team coverage continues to-from- virginia to maryland. some places got more than a dusting of snow. lauren demarco was in parts of maryland and joins us live tonight with the latest. lauren. >> reporter: maureen, definitely very chilly out here and clear. and, of course, we saw the little bit of winter weather today. likely the last winter event of the year, and it's been a pretty uneventful 2012 as far as winter weather and snow. we had enough for some folks to see what they thought today brought. no major issues on i-270 as the snow came down. pretreatments helped to make the highways passible, plows and salt trucks taking care of the rest. >> i have all-wheel drive in the car. it's not bad. >> be careful. don't want to go too fast or too slow, on the other hand. be more careful. >> reporter: damascus, maryland, saw an inch and a half of snow. >> damascus and mount ayr get more snow, the smaller storms than other places. i think it's the higher elevation. >> reporter: it brought the kids outdoors for some fun the four-year-old samuel should sheep error error well tonight. >> what are you doing -- sleep well tonight. >> what are you doing? >> sledding. >> reporter: he spent the day playing with neighbors and the big sister abby. >> we just sledding and having fun. >> reporter: you have had snowball fights? >> my brother threw a snowball at me and i threw one back. >> reporter: whose is better? >> mine. >> reporter: there was not much stuck to the ground in frederick. either way, john bennett said it's a welcome site in the holidays. >> puts you in the spirit, a good idea. [ laughter ] >> and that is a good idea. >> reporter: facebook's man lyric bravado downloaded a picture of snow in temple hills. kim wright saw plenty of white stuff in virginia. , diane snapped this shot in west virginia, and iris braxton in southwest d.c. captured a brief dusting on forrester street before the snow turned to rain. across the area, it was a day to bundle up. and for most, at least. >> i wear shorts year round. it's another day for me. >> reporter: and some of those who depend on the season for work were happy to have something to do. >> the more snow, the more money to make. we didn't get any of that last year. >> reporter: of course, some places happy to society smile would be the ski resorts in the area. i checked around on the websites, in maryland, the resort is reporting five inches and in pa, whitetail, which opened yesterday, they're reporting about two inches of snow and already off to a better year than last year for the skiers in the area. >> thank you for that. remember, youcan track the storm with the fox 5 weather app, including an hourly forecast, video updates from the weather team and more. download it on your droid, ipad or iphone. search for d.c. weather in the app store. now information on the health of former president george h.w. bush. a spokesperson said that his condition continues to improve and he was moved from intensive care to a regular hospital room. the 41st president has been in the hospital since november with bronchitis-related cough n. a statement today, he's thanking everyone for their well-wishes and prayers. he's the oldest living former president at 81 years of age. an attorney is asking permission to sue the state of connecticut for $100 million on behalf of a student who survived the mass shooting. the state has immunity against most lawsuits unless permission to sue is granted. the lawyer said the six-year- old student was in a classroom at sandy hook elementary when she heard the horrific confrontation with the shooter at ir-- over a loudspeaker. the lawsuit claims the child is traumatized by the killings. a followup on the story we broke at 10 last night. a fatal fire in greenbelt, maryland. the fire officials tell us the woman died in the friday night fire and two people were hurt. it happened around 9 on laurel hill road. investigators don't know the cause of the fire yet and the rowhouses on either side of the town home were damaged. five people are displaced. montgomery county detectives still investigating a multicar crash that injured four people in rockville on friday morning. the police say keegan was driving south when he crossed into the northbound lanes and crashed into four cars. one of the cars was driven by 61-year-old james plakas who crashed into another car. he was critically injured and taken to baltimore shock trauma center. the mother who was a passenger in his car and another driver were hurt. police are still trying to figure out how he wound up in the wrong direction on rockville pike. police are offering a $25,000 reward in the shooting death of a capitol hill man. he was shot multiple times in the early morning hours of christmas eve. he was found inside his car outside of his home along c street. the police say his body was slumped over the wheel and the car was running. they think it was a robbery that went wrong. the funeral was held this morning at saint mary's episcopal church in arlington. a missing university of maryland student has been found dead. the prince georges county police found the 20-year-old dead inside a car near route 197 and route 450 last night. the 20-year-old was missing since december 19th. right now, detectives are investigating the deaths as a suicide. still ahead on fox 5 news at 6, redskins rivalry. we look at what the skins are up against when they take on the cowboys tomorrow. plus, an important consumer alert in 2013. out with the old and in with the new. back after this. er this.  . so, we're a little more than 24 hours away from one of the biggest games in the history of the storied redskins/cowboys rivalry. easy to say. this showdown has everything for both teams. lindsay murphy is here with more on tomorrow night's pivotal game. i think a lot of people are ready for this one. >> reporter: the craziest thing is that if -- . >> yeah. >> it's supposed to be for the redskins -- skins. >> right. >> and they can make the play- offs before the game. >> how, they say? >> if the vikings and bears lose, they have early games. >> uh-huh. >> they will on know by 8:20 if they clenched a play-off spot. >> by hook or crook, get in there. >> yeah. they don't want to rely on that and say beat the cowboys, win the division and host their own play-off game and that isdo. tomorrow is the final game of the regular season for dallas if they lose and this is an eerie feeling for the redskins as they lost. and the cowboys lost at philly to miss the play-offs. the redskins, on the other hand, can make the post season if they lose and they hope winning four of the last five at home will provide moment numb this win and your end- game. after all, the last six weeks felt that way. >> and the pressure we're used to. this everything is, the season's done until next year and everyone will be playing, you know, and just leave it on the feel. >> these are the games you will remember the rest of your life. i don't care as i look back as an assistant and head coach, you go back and think about the great experiences -- experiences you had or bad memories. you want to take advantage of the opportunities when they exist. they don't come around every day. >> the redskins have done the last six wins is amazing saying only three teams since 1990 made the play-offs. >> with and we wrote them off. all of a sudden, the turnaround, i'm getting excited. >> i am excited for the game. >> yeah. >> and that is the biggest ever. >> right. >> and the rivalry's lost some of the luster. >> and this is it. >> and this is a little guy named rg3. you know. just a bit. lindsay, thank you. and so, of course, our facebook fans and asked what they thought the skin his to do to beat the cowboys tomorrow. west gum thought it out and said the best plan is to take your time on offense and make smart plays that will add to the team's confidence. lindsay in. >> and that sounds like a coach. >> i think so. >> josh ages said he thinks it's to be a defensive game, keep romo on the field or make them settle for field-goals. >> i agree with the defense. the redskins defense has to have a huge game and put less pressure on rg3. and don -- . >> and don 2345 told us as long as they cover the receivers and stay on romo, they will win. stay healthy and protect the quarterback. there were a lot of haters and cowboys fans stirring the pot, you know, they had a lot to say and we're not going to bother with that up. this is redskins country. thanks to those who come and thank you, lindsay. >> all right. >> see you later on. meanwhile, construction on the washington redskins training camp could begin as soon as next week. they will hold the summer training camp in richmond the next eight years, part of an economic incentive deal they made with virginia. the facility is going to cost $10 million that is going to be built behind the science museum of virginia. there will be two full football folds, a field house with locker and weight rooms, a drill field and spectator areas. at 6, a racy course on the 50 shades of gray is being offered at the university. now, it's an american studies class that will focus on the book's impasse on society. the professor believes the course is appropriate saying no other contemporaries text on sexuality transformed american culture the way this series has. coming up, dairy clips. milk prices could double if lawmakers dilly dally any longer. why they need to get a move on it. and had to say that. 2013 around the corner. what are you going to do to celebrate? coming up, what the preps are in new york city's time square. if you have a story idea, call the tipline at 202-895-3,000 end send us an e-mail if you want, www.fox5tips@wttg.com. back after this. ó if you have high blood pressure and get a cold get coricidin hbp. the number one pharmacist recommended cold brand designed for people with high blood pressure. and the only one i use to relieve my cold symptoms without raising my blood pressure. coricidin hbp. . the end of 2012 could mean a big headache to courages, thanks to a 1950s law for the cost of milk. the cost could double if congress doesn't -- doesn't come up with a deal by january 1st. >> reporter: cows on the cliff or at least the milk. what all eyes are on the fiscal cliff, another deadline is approaching, the milk cliff. it's part of a farm bill with as much as $35 billion in cuts. if the bill doesn't make it through congress before the end of the year, the government will be forced to find vast qualities of milk under the trueman era law and that could send consumer milk prices as high as $6 to $8 a gallon because the government would be obligated to pay twice the wholesale rate under the 1949 rule. the farmers would sell their milk to the government first and prompting a shortage in commercial supplies spiking the price consumers pay. >> the farm bill is like the low-hanging ornament on the congressional christmas tree that if they just embrace it, they can automatically come up with tips of billions of dollars in budget savings. >> reporter: the problem is the bill's stuck in the house and there appears to be no political will to move it forward. agriculture secretary tom vilsack said as a precaution, his department is preparing for the laws to take affect. >> this is a bad outcome. let me be very clear about this. i don't think we should want nor should congress consider it a good outcome. >> reporter: it's not just the cows going over the cliff but could be the crops, too. >> things like wheat and corn. their permanent farm law price supports wouldn't kick in until the growing season. those pieces of legislation are tied to the growing season for those crops, and that wouldn't be until the spring. >> reporter: the 1949 permanent law was introduced as a poison pill to scare congress into passing a farm bill and now it threatens to sour american's milk if congress takes it over the milk cliff. the temporary solution would be to hold an extension of the existing farm bill into the wider fiscal cliff resolutions and that is not moving. in los angeles, dominic dinatali, fox news. things are going to show up in a different like in between the 13, literally. manufacturers are not going to make 75-watt lightbulbs. the cfl bulb and l.e.d. bulb is replacing them. the idea is to reduce energy use by 75%. >> l.e.d.'s, the biggest claim to fame is that they last a really long time. we're talking about 25,000 to 50,000 hours. and to put that in perspective, if you put a lightbulb in your child's nursery, you probably wouldn't have to change it until junior was ready to go to college. >> the 100-watt bulbs have been phased out. the 60- and 40-watt versions will disappear later. speaking of green initiatives, this is a way to get rid of a real christmas tree. in rhode island, a petting zoo is letting the animals chow down on them. the simons farm has 50 goats and they into pine, apparently. the next thing the farm crew knew, the cows and sheep were sharing the feast. >> everyone hates to like, you know, they have their live tree. what do i do with it when it's done? i hate to throw it away. there is a good alternative. >> the farmhands say it's great timing because the animals have eaten all of the leaves off of the trees and the grass in the area, so there was not much left for them to monk on, and so, that spruce came along. >> hi no idea that they loved to oat christmas trees. >> i didn't either. >> i knew goats could chow on anything. >> right. >> the sheep and cows, too? >> it's a party. >> apparently it is. >> can you have -- next? >> i did no such thing. >> i like fluffy snowfalls. >> right. i know. >> and makes you feel like you want to kidel in bed and stay there all day. >> we're on the line here the past few storms. >> yeah. >> and more of the same today. things are wrapped up here and we're wrapped up with any snow or rain and clearing out overnight. >> okay. >> and breezy and cold overnight. >> oh. and parts of the area with snow accumulation, be ready for the possibility of the refreezing out there later tonight on some of the paveed surfaces and some temperatures, 42 in washington. we're in the 30s outside of the beltway, 36 this evening in leonardtown; 37, baltimore; 37, frederick and winchester. the temperatures falling back areawide here at or below freezing and that is a cold night and breezy in the wake of our system. the winds are picking up and they're out of the north and west. we're going to be in for a breezy and cool overnight and cool sunday. winds at 8 here in washington. 14, gaithersburg and maybe we'll show you the windchill map health on this evening. 37, currently in washington; 29, gaithersburg and the numbers will be falling overnight. there is the snow and rain, it's out of here and quieter weather for the day on sunday. some snow into new york and boston, they have some winter storm warnings, more impressive accumulations here where they're expecting upwards of four-plus inches of snow and the most i saw in far western maryland. the forecast tonight, 31, clearing skies and breezy and cold out there. the winds are picking up out of the north and west to 10 to 15 miles an hour. the sunday looks great, lots of sunshine and should be a beautiful looking game. you go to the redskins game and be ready for a cold one. and some overnight lows tonight. mostly sunny highs, breezy out there and check out the winds, gusting tomorrow and that is going to be cold. there is your accuweather seven- day forecast, and the temperatures are going to stay on the cool side the next few days and if you're on going out for new year's eve, it's going to be cold. back to you. >> thank you, tucker. what are you doing on new year's eve? about a million people will be packed into time square to watch the ball drop and ring in 2013. fox's anna coyman shows us how they're getting ready. >> reporter: already decorated for the holidays, pressed for the world's biggest new year's party are now underway in the big apple. earlier today, time square alliance officials tested the confetti that will fall after midnight throwing it out a window on to unsuspecting people on the street. more than one million revelers will pack into time square to watch the ball drop and a bottom more from home. the 2013 sign is situated on top of one time square. it's 7 feet tall. after four decades of dick clark helping america ring in the new year, 2013 will be the first celebration following his death. a special waterford crystal with his name on it will be in the ball this year. we spoke to his wife who remembers watching the weather report this time of the year, since she knew they would be outside for so many hours and all looked forward to their new year's kiss. >> the only way i can deal with this is to think of the television dick clark, not my husband, and then i can deal with it. if i have to think of that is my husband, he's not here, that is hard. >> reporter: depending who you ask, '13 is considered lucky to, someup lucky to others and for the superstitious out there dreading 2013, no need to fear. good luck charms have been attached to the 13 to ward off the potential bad luck n. new york city, anna coyman, fox news. coming up on fox 5 news at 6, the fiscal cliff is looming, the latest and how we could affect our national security. . president obama has issued a challenge to congressional republicans. he said if they can't get a bipartisan deal, he at least expects them to vote on his proposal to stop tax increases on all but the wealthy and preserve unempyment benefits. dells have heard that house republicans may wait to make a deal until after the new year, essentially letting the taxes go up and voting to cut them. the good news, you're not likely to feel any fall off of the cliff if they get something done in the first few days of 2013. and for some, the biggest objection to the fiscal cliff is the cuts to project defense spending. they warned it's bad news for national security. peter deucey explains who mean affected. >> reporter: last friday when president obama rolled out his new plan for steering us away from the fiscal cliff, there was a word he did not say and that word was sequester. the sequester would automatically cut more than $100 billion from the budget next year, half from domestic programs and half from defense programs and now as the deadline draws close, experts are looking at the cuts from a national security standpoint and warning one final time about heir safety of the service members. >> and that is going to affect the operational force deployed in terms of its ability to maintain its equipment to quiet re-- get repair parts and that is around the world, not just in afghanistan being reduced and it would impact on the training of the force and the preparedness to conduct other operations. >> reporter: white house officials are saying that it's still unclear what is going to happen with the sequester o. friday, republican senator john mccain said he doesn't see how a deal gets done without addressing the across-the-board cuts, which could cost a lot of contractors their jobs. >> the large defense contract is probably going to be okay and they have significant cash reserves. the smaller ones would have trouble getting the lines of credit extended, trouble keeping the employees if they can't be assured of continued employment. >> reporter: the only way to avoid the automatic $492 billion in cuts at the pentagon over the next nine years is for congress to make a deal in the next two days. a state lawmaker is pulls out of the race with jesse jackson jr. 's empty congressional street. he was arrested december 5th because airport security screeners at chicago o'hare found an unloaded baretta handgun in his bag. he doesn't want the charges he faces to detract from the campaign. trotter told the officers at the airport he works a security job and that the gun is for that and that he forgot it in the bag. a russian plane crashed killing four people. it went down and came a part and caught fire. officials say there were eight people on board the red wings plane on the way from the czech republic. the eight people on board were all crew members. the cause is not clear but for now, investigators believe it was pilot error. and to india now. politicians are expressing their condolences to the family of an indian woman who died from injuries sustained during a gang rape. it's causing major protest across the country. indians are demanding greater protection for women sexually assaulted. six people were arrested in connection with the attack and they're facng murder charges. the fatal shooting of a 40- year-old man in chicago pushed the city's 2012 homicide tolls to 500, the first time chicago had that many killings in four years and he's more. >> reporter: she was a beautiful little girl who loved school. >> reporter: countless times this year, mothers have wept and buried innocent children. she was six, shot and killed as she sat in her village porch in march. >> for us to face this is heartwrenching. >> reporter: numerous times, pastors have performed funerals for victims of gun violence, including one where a murder happened at a funeral. >> people want to believe the only ones getting shot and killed are these kids out here doing criminal activity. there are innocent children going on their daily activities of life and they're being gunned down. >> reporter: the city's 500th homicide happened last night in the austin neighborhood, a 40- year-old man shot in the head. >> and the $500 number should sound the alarm. >> reporter: father michael flagler said in order to bring about real change, we have to go after the culture of violence in this country. >> we don't get to the root foundation, we're going see this repeat over and over. we have a deal with the gun issue and why we have in america, assault weapons and magazines allow side unbelievable to me. >> reporter: while the 500 homicides is unacceptable, new strategies preventing retaliation in gang violence slowed the murder rate as the year went on. activists say police and community leaders have to work harder to change attitudes. >> if you grow up in a community where violence is a learned behavior, it's the culture of that particular community, you have guys premeditating what they're going to do tonight what, they going to do tomorrow and they are getting into a slight altercation or a beef with someone, they're going to take the person's life. they have been taught to do. that. still ahead -- >> and telling the guys i don't want to die here. >> to wake up 2 1/2 months later and find out they don't have arms or legs anymore. >> and we have a touching story on a local marine, who, against all odds, is living his life to the fullest. the fullest. ?ñ hey, look! a shooting star! make a wish! i wish we could lie here forever. i wish this test drive was over, so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com today. . he has been through so much to keep us safe here at home. a marine from fredericksburg experienced terrible injuries in war, but he's dorm live a full life. fox's jennifer griffin shows us how he's forging a new path. >> reporter: marine sergeant john peck is one of five quadruple amputees to emerge from the last 11 years of war. he's overcoming what has become one of the signature wounds facing american war fighters since 9/11. >> i was injured may 24th, 2010, in afghanistan. i went to turn around, took a, i think it was my left foot forward, and the next thing i know, i am basically being flung through the air and i land on my back like mud, sand, dirt, whatever was in my eyes can and i basically couldn't see at this point. i could make out like a little bit of color and a little bit of shapes and everything, and just basically telling the guys, hey, i don't want to die here. i wake up 2 1/2 months later and basically find out that i don't have arms or legs anymore. >> how are you feeling? >> reporter: less than three years later, he's sky diving. >> whew? >> all right. >> the next thing i want to do is jump off a cliff, white water rafting. cliff jumping, there you go. >> welcome! >> reporter: peck has had 29 surgeries in 2 1/2 years. >> what's wrong, can't keep up? >> reporter: now he lives on a wooded patch of land with his mom lisa in rural virginia. two weeks ago, the non-profit group started by veterans called independence fund gave him a new loose -- lease on life and a chance to do something that a standard wheelchair can't do, head outside and offroad. into the forest where many of these warriors grew up hunting and fishing. peck new drives something known as a trak chair, a new technology developed by a couple in minnesota that allows the wheelchair to function like an all-terrain vehicle. >> i used to ride atvs and i would consider this -- he was given the -- he looks like a boy given his first bmx bicycle for christmas. >> my darkest fears? my divorce. >> reporter: his young wife left him. >> she couldn't hang with the injuries once i got injured, she couldn't hang with it. i was an angry and spiteful person that didn't want to be around people, i seclouded myself. >> reporter: his mom lisa was with him every step of the way from the first moment show heard he was hit. >> i don't remember a lot of that day but what i was told, i pull into the driveway and didn't park my car and jumped out of the car asked what did they do to my baby. i told him he and i could get to anything together as long as we stuck together and the first thing i said to him was i am here, it's okay, we can get through this, too and we have. >> if it was not for her being here, i would probably have gone insane. >> oh, come, on. not a hug. >> reporter: if peck served in vietnam, he would have ended up like the character lieutenant dan from the movie forest gump, angry and alone. ironically, it was a group of residents from buford, south carolina, where that hollywood tale was shot and a former new york firefighter who impersonates elvis who raised the money that allowed peck to have this wheel chair that costs $15,000 cost $15,000. >> that guy needs help 24 hours a day. basically, he can't do anything for himself. >> i brush my teeth and take care of what i need to do and i have my prosthetic arm o i mean,ky make meal error errors for the most part and feed myself. just because we're injured, doesn't mean we're not capable of doing things. >> this is the second time he received a generous gift this past month, he moved into a smart home in fredericksburg. the kitchen singe is mounted at his level, the cabinets move and the bathroom is motion- sensorred, thanks to the gary sinise and tunnel to tower foundation. still ahead, he's a live look outside of the district tonight. we have a rain-snow mix today. what is in store for the rest of the weekend? we're going to find out next. d . in entertainment news, actor matthew mccono hey and his wife celebrating the birth of their new baby. she gave birth to a baby girl in austin, texas, the couple's third child. they have a four-year-old son, three-year-old daughter and, of course, a new one and they wed in an outdoor ceremony in austin. in paraguay, one person's trash is another person's musical treasure. the orchestra recycle instruments got its start five years ago. a teacher decided how to teach kids the music and they made from trash. i don't know, i thought they sounded good. >> yeah, that is a neat idea and that is good to resibling. >> enough already? >> yeah, i'm done. >> and that is it for our few days and the third in a series and as mentioned, three different storms and that is the snow pack currently and that is taken by the national weather service. remember that? to the north and west of the 95 corridor. >> yeah. >> we have the snow pack and the darker colors you see, the heavier snow amounts. >> and for those of us that haven't seen much snow? >> uh-huh. >> southern maryland into central virginia, go a little further north and west. >> yeah. >> and go visit your friends. >> seems like they have it in abundance. >> pretty cool. >> uh-huh. >> and your headlines, breezy and cold overnight. the storminess from today out of here and as mentioned, the winds are going to pick up here the next few hours and gusting overnight to 20 to 25 and that is the real story here the next day or so and tomorrow is a breezy one as well and this is snow totals, damascus, an inch and a half; front royal, two inches; mart bins -- martinsburg and winchester, closer to two inches as well and parts of the area here, closer to town and reagan national picks up a trace, oxen hill, a half an inch and in that picture there and hold on to the temperatures in the 40s. 38 at dulles, excuse me; 38 in annapolis; 36, leonardtown. dulles, the temperature of 41 and 37 in frederick; 37, win chester and areawide, they should fall below the freezeing mark and some areaings here north and west of up to, you could deal with the refreeze issues and be we'rer of -- weary of that and to the north and west, they'll pick up areawide the next few hours and 38 in hagerstown; 28, gaithersburg and we're expecting widespread winds gusting to 25 overnight and during the day tomorrow. perhaps 30, 35 miles per hour and that is going to be breezy tomorrow and we're done with the showers/snow showers across the region and this is to the north and east and we'll clear out overnight and deal with the colder temperatures tomorrow and most of the heavy snow, the area of low pressure responsible for the snow shower activity around here, and this is intensifying and there is some higher snow amounts. to the west, the high pressure is going to build in and tomorrow, the sunday should be a beautiful looking day and if you're looking out of the window and that is going to be a cold day. the high temperatures tomorrow will be in the upper 30s to 40s and we should be below freezeing, winds northwest 10 to 15, gusting 20 to 25 and in the mountains to the west, gusting to 35 or 40 ing to be b clearing skies, breezy and cold there setting us up for a descent day tomorrow o. chilly side, 39 the daytime high tomorrow with winds here in the northwest, gusting to 25 and going to the redskins game. the temperatures falling back into the low 30s at game time and that will be chilly there. there is the accuweather seven- day forecast, and some highlights here, first night activities, monday night and tuesday look quiet and there will be some clouds and some snow or rain showers during the day on tuesday and that is not a big deal and much of the week, the temperatures at 2013 and we're quiet. maybe a storm there at the end of the week. >> all right, thank you. >> uh-huh. and lawmakers in washington work to avoid the fiscal cliff, some are having fun with the looming deadline. check out the electric road sign in portland, oregon. someone hacked it and changed it to read fiscal cliff ahead, january and february. we'll hear from robert griffin on the eve of the biggest nfl game. that is robert griffin 3, thank you very much, and navy looks for a san francisco treat in the fight hunger bowl against arizona state. lindsay murphy is up next in sports. sports. . good evening, i'm lindsay murphy. there is a saying in sports that it's not how you start but finish. and the navy football team knows a thing or two about that. they lost by 40 points to notre dame to start the season and closed out the year winning seven of eight, earning the ninth bowl big bid in 10 years. the midshipman marching for the fight hunger bowl against arizona state, the game's first possession, the sun devils, taylor kelly with the play- action fake and connects with ross, 16 yards for the score. the sun devils built a 21-0 lead after one quarter of play and to the second quarter, the great job alluding pressure and hits matt a kin and that cut the deaf tightity is to 21-7. late in the second quarter, 28- 7 and that is after a missed navy field-goal and goes deep. 62 yards for the huge touchdown and in the fourth quarter, navy trails 62-14. the opinion stripe bowl at the stadium, syracuse and west virginia in a pregame scrum. the second quarter, west virginia trailing 3-0 and a play after stopping syracuse on the fourth down and dropped for the safety and up the middle and untouched, 33 yards for the scores and it was 12-0, syracuse. still the second quarter, smith, a wide receiver screen to steadman bailey and breaks the tackle. he goes the distance, 32 yards and that cut the deficit to 12- 7 and in that third quarter, he heads through the hole and kicks it outside and no one is catching him and they win this one, 38-14. tomorrow is a day of football for many teams. ten of 12 play-off spots have been clenched, including all six spots in the afc and that means two spots up for grabs in the nfc. will the redskins be one of the teams? robert griffin 3 hopes so and rushing for 700 yards and six touchdowns and he has a capon of an arm. twenty touchdown passes and five interceptions. and he was huge in the redskins biggest game this season, and including the big stage, of course, nothing new for the heisman trophy winner. >> and you play big, people write good things about you. people want to play well and that is coming to the division, a conference championship game in college and that happened to play out like that. >> we were 3 and 6 and now we're 9 and 6 and we have to finish and we're not done or satisfied where we're at now and one team is happening again. >> reporter: college hoops this afternoon, maryland defeated delaware state, 79-50 and the freshman charles mitchell off of the bench, scoring a season high 19 points. the terps won 11 in a row and that is the longest winning streak in a decade. george mason plays south florida tonight, american at 6th-ranked kansas. meanwhile, losing to three of the last four games and out west facing byu15 secs into the game and hits the 3-point, later in the first half, left all alone and guess what? hits another 3-pointer and had 29 points in the first half and eddie with the offensive board and the putback and with that team high of 17 points. and with that rebound to davies and the foul, the career high, 42 points, virginia tech falls to byu, 97-71 and the hokies open up acc play next saturday, hosting maryland. tonight, the wizards can win back-to-back games the first time since last april. early on, things didn't look good against the magic. nelson made four first-quarter 3-pointers and with that 25-8 lead. in the second quarter, rallying back from a 17-point deficit and off the rebound. the perfect alley-oop for the dunk and had 11. the wizards led by 3 at the half. in the second half, this time gives it to a cutting nene down the lane. two of his 23 points and the wizards in front by 8. late in the third quarter, crawford from beyond the arc, hits the 3- pointer and with 27 points. the wiz defeat the magic, 105- 97 for the fourth victoriy of the season and the third at home. tonight, a road game against the chicago bulls. >> all right, okay. so, tucker, one last weather word. we know that things are looking weird out there. >> and that is a winning streak. it's looking word. the accuweather seven-day forecast and that is nice, maureen and 39 tomorrow, breezes pick up and that is cold overnight and partly sunny, tuesday, yeah, and a snow shower for the -- . >> and that is it. we're back at 10 and the news edge. have a good night. here you go. you, too. i'm going to dream about that steak. i'm going to dream about that tiramisu. what a night, huh? but, um, can the test drive be over now? head back to the dealership? [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a passat. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com today.

Lockdown Lessons: What lawyers learned during the pandemic

Elementary students amazed by the 'banana in the sky' as they partake in solar eclipse

People across Jacksonville turned their heads to the skies to view the partial solar eclipse.

New wildfire defense grant program at a snail's pace as fire season looms

New wildfire defense grant program at a snail's pace as fire season looms