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A recap of the day's news.
the "washington post" by the way who are doing a lot of heavy lifting, cataloging all the false and misleading claims president trump has made since he took the oath of office. his complete disregard for the truth is shocking. it probably shouldn't be. after all, he told us this himself. >> and just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. >> so why don't we take a moment, shall we, to break down just a few of the president's most recent lies? just this week, he again threatened to shut down the federal government, to shut it down on october 1st if congress doesn't give him the money for his favorite campaign promise, you know what that is, to build a wall on the southern border. >> we started building our wall, i'm so proud of it. we started. we have 1.6 billion. and we've already started. you saw the pictures yesterday. i said, what a thing of beauty. >> well, i don't know, mexico
>> u.s. steel just announced that they're building six new steel mills. >> if you care about the truth, nope, that's not the truth. the only thing u.s. steel has announced is that it will restart two blast furnaces, restart two blast furnaces, not six new steel mills. and it's probably no coincidence the president seems to be especially truth challenged when it comes to russia. and this tweet from july 24th, he famously claims russia will be pushing for democrats in the midterms because, according to him, they don't want trump. but i want you to listen closely. this is vladimir putin himself coming from his own mouth, he said at the press conference after the disastrous summit in helsinki. >> president putin, did you want president trump to win the election and did you direct any of your officials to help him do
A recap of the day's news.
it's like a witch hunt. the witch hunt continues. the entire thing has been a witch hunt. this is a pure and simple witch hunt. >> a lot of witches have been caught. but it's not a witch hunt, no matter how many times he says it. the fact is is special counsel robert mueller has brought 191 criminal charges against 35 defendants. there have been five guilty pleas, five guilty pleas so far. and former trump campaign manager paul manafort is on trial right now in the first case to come out of the mueller investigation. those are the facts. so here we are again, asking the same question we have asked before, and will ask again, i'm sure, who are you going to believe? are you going to believe the president who has made well over 4,200 false or misleading claims
so far? or are you going to believe your own eyes and your own years? facts still matter. the truth still matters. we're living in reality, not an alternative reality. i want to bring in cnn national security analyst juliette kayyem, and carrie cordero. and the author of "the threat matrix." thank you all for joining us. julia, start with you, so lie after lie, and the disappointing part is, this isn't new. it's not by accident. and we'll no doubt hear and see more next week. >> yeah, that -- i mean, that is not a lie. we can be assured of that, and the sort of continuation or the repetition of the lie becomes donald trump's own reality. i think what you're also seeing, though, is that his sense of what reality is bumping up against the reality of facts. and you're seeing it mostly, of course, in the russian investigation. those facts don't lie, the number of people who have pled guilty, the number of people who are testifying, the number of indictments that are going on,
the ties that are getting close, if not within essentially the oval office, and so i think part of the lying is a reaction to the reality that donald trump is facing, at least as it pertains to the russia investigation at this stage. >> yeah. and then we have this news that the manhattan madam, kristin davis met with mueller's team, they're interested in her ties to roger stone. why does roger stone's name continue to pop up in this investigation? >> well, what we know so far in the public reporting is that roger stone appears to have had contact both with guccifer 2, the gru russian military intelligence officers who attacked john podesta and other democratic e-mails, as well as with wikileaks which was the platform where these e-mails came out. and that's just based on public reporting. that stuff's relatively old.
part of what's interesting about mueller's ongoing interest in this, i think he's up to seven or nine different roger stone advisers or colleagues that he has been interviewing, is that he has some sort of ongoing interest with roger stone. and obviously we don't know what it is. but we know that mueller doesn't yet know the thing that mueller is looking for. and that, in and of itself, is pretty interesting to us. >> yeah. every -- every step of the way, carrie, mueller has -- you know, he's been methodical in who he meets with. he's laser focused, certainly wouldn't be meeting with this woman unless he had good reason to do so. >> well, that's right. i mean, i think garrett's on the right track, which is that the investigators and the special counsel team, they are interviewing people around roger stone. and so whatever is the piece of the investigation most likely the piece that goes to the heart of the inquiry into whether there were individuals affiliated with the campaign, roger stone being one of them who actually may have had advanced knowledge or been involved in some way with the russian influence campaign, they are circling around roger stone to determine how much information they can learn based on what witnesses say as well as what their documentary evidence or the digital evidence that they're obtaining says. and then they'll determine whether or not they want to talk
to him specifically, whether that's through a voluntary interview or whether that's through grand jury or whether they decide they don't need to talk to him at all. they're figuring out the answers to what their questions would be for him in advance through these other witnesses in his circle. >> and juliette kayyem, i am sure, a lot of people are wondering what does the manhattan madam have to do with the russia investigation? >> i think that 2018 was missing was the manhattan madam, remember, she came into sort of prominent in the elliott spitzer, the former governor of new york. sometimes it's the 1980s and 1990s all over again. look, their relationship is described as that they've had ties. we don't know what these ties are. we don't know what the nature of the relationship is. he represent -- or she ran for office once.
he was her campaign manager. she worked for him once. and so the fact that she voluntarily came forward, maybe either because she has exonerating evidence or because she sees as carrie was describing the sort of -- you know, the wagons circling around one person and she may have information. so, you know, mueller is a busy guy. he's not interviewing people that may not have something relevant. and the fact that this cast of characters that surrounds the trump campaign from 2016, you know everyone from, you know, stone to the, you know, stormy daniels to now the manhattan madam, you know, that's the nature of the people he hung out with. and that's a character quality that is represented in the president of the united states. there's no -- that's not a judgment. it's just these are the people he surrounded himself with. >> yeah. i was in my neighborhood the other day and i saw them from afar, and i was like, oh my gosh, there's a manhattan madam and roger stone in the same neighborhood, it was so odd. >> i know. the fact we're reading about elliott spitzer again is it's sort of -- you have to be of a certain age to remember this. >> garrett, i want to read this statement. roger stone says kristin davis is a long-time associate of
mine. i am the god father to her 2-year-old son. she knows nothing about russian collusion, wikileaks. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. what do you think, garrett? >> juliet had a point there i wanted to emphasize and expand upon. mueller is not on a wild goose case to turn up criminal investigations, criminal charges against anyone for anything. in fact, it was cnn's reporting originally on monday this week that showed that he has turned over the tony podesta and vin weber ends of his investigation to the southern district of new york, the manhattan federal prosecutors. what that means is that what he's actually doing, and we see this with the michael cohen case and we see this in a number of other instances, he's handing off things that don't seem related to his core russia probe.
so the fact that he is staying focused on roger stone means that he thinks roger stone is the center or part of the center of this russia question. this isn't sort of some unrelated tax charges or, you know, some prostitution or escort charges dating back to the 1990s, totally unrelated. this is something that is central to bob mueller's investigation that roger stone is the key to unlocking. >> okay. i need you guys to stick around. we'll continue on for one more round after this. when we come back, a former trump campaign aide socialized with alleged russian agent maria butina, weeks before the election, inviting her to his birthday party. according to "the washington post." wonder what they talked about. no. no, no, no, no, no. cancel. cancel. please. aaagh! being in the know is a good thing.
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so breaking news now on alleged russian agent maria butina. she reached out to a former trump campaign aide weeks before the election, closer contact with trump's team than previously known. back with me, juliette kayyem, carrie cordero and garrett graff. and they're reporting that she sought out interactions with j.d. gordon who served as trump's campaign director on national security for six months before he moved over to the transition team. that's according to testimony and documents provided to the senate intelligence committee. significant? >> oh, absolutely. what we have to remember is the case that's trying to be made, right now she's in jail. what she's saying or not saying is going to be relevant for any investigation. what's more important is the extent to which we are now
seeing how early on in this campaign the national security team, this is not like some finance person, this is the -- one of the leads of trump's very small national security team were receptive to someone like maria. right? in other words, no other campaign in the history of the presidency has had so many russians hanging out around the various teams. so what this reporting shows is that those overtures were very, very close to the election day itself, and they were social enough that people -- that she was invited to birthday parties and concerts and whatever else. these aren't random. i saw her at a conference kind of relationships. these are actually she gets invited by leaders of the national security team and not some other part of the trump campaign. so i think this is very significant, both in terms of how close it was to the campaign, and how close her ties were to the national security apparatus of the trump transition. >> this is some of the details, get them right here, garrett, they exchanged e-mails in september and october of 2016, j.d. gordon invited butina to a concert and a birthday party. what we're seeing is an alleged russian agent getting close to someone in trump's orbit.
right? >> yeah. and, remember, there are some unanswered, loose threads involving j.d. gordon already in this investigation. he was involved in the attempt to change the platform language of the republican -- at the republican convention to make it more pro-russia, more anti-ukraine. that was the same convention, of course, that had paul manafort, had rick gates, where jeff sessions was meeting with sergey kislyak on the side of the convention. it spools some interesting and intriguing avenues that could help us answer some of the
fundamental unanswered questions we still have about what transpired in the middle of the trump campaign in 2016. >> so paul manafort's accountant testified today, carrie, and one of them is cindy laporta who got immunity. she said she falsified a $900,000 loan amount so manafort could pay less taxes. is that damning? >> it's very -- it's dramatic. she has been granted immunity so that she would testify and not incriminate herself. she has admitted she knew some of what they were doing was illegal. so i think that testimony probably was very powerful. and the cooperation of the accountants and the bookkeeper,
what that does is that provides additional details and context to what i think is really a very document-heavy trial, and a document-heavy case. in other words, most of the serious evidence that will support the elements of the crime, if the jury does find him guilty, will come from the actual documents themselves and the falsified records. someone like this, though, she provides a face and personal knowledge of what was going on behind the scenes. >> so, carrie, this is really a preview of what we're going to hear from the prosecution star witness, rick gates? >> well, in some ways, rick gates will, i think, provide even more details if, in fact, he does testify. he will have additional questions from the defense about, you know, his cooperation agreement as well.
and he was part of this scheme. so that adds a different dimension to his testimony where she was someone, as i understand from the proceedings today, who expressed remorse at having known that some of this was wrong activity, but has a little bit of distance in that she was the accountant, she wasn't the person sort of pursuing the scheme. >> with so much -- juliette, with so much evidence against manafort, what is his strategy? is he banking on a pardon from the president or a mistrial? >> oh, his strategy may be just to delay this as long as possible and hopefully win in court. i think at this stage we don't know his strategy because as carrie was pointing out, the evidence does seem pretty damning so far. it's document heavy, but also you have these five witnesses who worked with him day in and day out who are testifying against him. so it's -- you know, we always are looking for is there sort of some grand strategy to all this different behavior, stone or
manafort or the former national security adviser. maybe the strategy is every man to himself now. these are how conspiracies unravel, right, is that no one knows what the other person is doing. so flynn doesn't know what his deputy is saying. stone doesn't know what flynn is saying. and this is basically how conspiracies fall apart. there may not be a grand strategy for any of them except for self-preservation at this stage, and some of them looking at the writing on the wall, why we have so many guilty pleas at this stage, they're saying the only saving grace at this stage is if i plead. you know, this is -- you know, you're seeing people basically not know whether they'll survive the unraveling of the grand conspiracy. so it's every man and woman in some cases to themselves. >> garrett, just to wrap it up here. i know you don't have a crystal ball.
take us forward to next week. what do you expect? >> well, what i think we're going to see is, you know, paul manafort try to push this forward as best he can. he is probably holding out hope that there might be one juror in the midst of this who has listened to the president say this is a hoax, that this is a witch hunt, that paul manafort, you know, is being caught up and railroaded by the special counsel. you know, it's a pretty damning case based on evidence and testimony. but all you need is one juror sitting there saying, you know, i don't know that i buy this. >> all right. thank you all. have a good weekend. when we come back, the human rights office condemning president trump's attacks on the media saying he is violating not only freedom of the press, but human rights. is this president damaging this country beyond repair? when i received the diagnoses, i knew at that exact moment ... i'm beating this. my main focus was to find a team of doctors. it's not just picking a surgeon,
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so what does it say, what does it say to you that the u.n. human rights office is calling out the president of the united states? >> i'm glad they're calling him out. we're in a crisis where we have the president here who's attacking the first amendment, you know, saying horrific things about journalists, creating a feeling of violence against even the people like jim acosta at cnn wherever he goes. you know, when we deal with the nixon years, don, and look back, you know, nixon was trying to -- his enemies list was looking at the -- you know, who -- how we can sic the irs on people. now i'm worried about violence towards journalists because of the way donald trump talks about the fake news media, being disgusting, the enemy of the people. he's embarrassing us internationally. but worse, i think journalists are starting to feel threatened by his presidency.
>> as a historian, to hear the president of the united states refer to the press as an enemy of the people, has that ever happened before? >> it's horrific. i mean, you know, nixon, i mentioned, kept an enemies list, and was starting to go after people, but he is really trying to incite violence against reporters. how else can you interpret it? if they're the enemy, you're supposed to stamp out the enemy. and he doubles down on it, plays games with it, thinks it's funny. and so i think we have a big problem with donald trump's -- it's because he's not a reader in the end, but his misunderstanding of even what the role of journalism is in our
constitution, the first amendment. >> so, morton, you were actually on president nixon's enemies list. >> yes, i was. >> give me your reaction of what we have seen from the trump white house. is history repeating itself? >> no, it's far worse than anything that occurred during the nixon administration. nixon did not attack the press as a group. he did not do anything which intended to incite violence against the press. he did many things which were inappropriate, and i think he would have been and should have been impeached if he had not resigned. but donald trump is a far more evil and dangerous man, and he is, i think, trying to intimidate the press. he is encouraging his followers to conduct violence against the press. the great shame is that the rest of the republican party, which spoke out against nixon, is, with a few exceptions, not doing what they should be doing, which is defending the constitution and siding with the rest of us and saying this man has to go. >> so, you know, i guess part of the media, you know, and you are now sort of de facto, right, by extension, so you're enemies of the people.
i'm wondering what it was like living as someone he pointed out specifically, one person as an enemy of the president of the united states. >> you're asking me how i felt to be on the enemies list? >> yeah. >> next to my name it said a scandal would be helpful here. but it clearly was more of an aspiration on their part than anything that they tried to do. by the time we learned of it, the existence of the list from john dean, nixon was in big trouble. and i don't think people who were on the list felt in any physical danger, certainly. and not much political danger. we felt the country was coming around to understand that nixon could not be allowed to continue to be president and that he had to be removed from office by a
constitutional process. people, looking back, thought they may have been investigated by the irs inappropriately. i never felt that, and have never been audited, in fact, by the irs. but this is a wholly different situation. this is a situation in which the press, the american public is being told not to trust journalists, not to believe in facts. and supporters of the president -- >> they feel threatened. you said you didn't then, people didn't feel threatened, but journalists feel threatened now, when they're being in pens, roped off and pointed out in the back of the auditorium, and people screaming at them. people feel threatened now and they're getting specific threats against them. >> it's the rest of us that have to defend the press because, as we all know, a free press is a vital element of our constitutional system. >> absolutely. doug, you say that nixon seems like a statesman compared to trump. talk to me about that. >> yeah, i mean, you know, nixon went in 1972 to china and the famous break through with china, he had reporters with him, a selection who were friendly, but he had unfriendly reporters with him. he was trying to win them in public opinion. donald trump wants to destroy
them and tamp them out. the good news is, don, you're part of history now, there's a group of journalists who have stood up to donald trump, are doing deep investigation at "washington post," "new york times," people like michael schmidt, phil rucker, many others are going to go down in history -- maggie, of course. these are brave figures. in the nixon enemies list, besides morton, paul newman made the list and the great journalist daniel shore, and both of them -- newman said it's the great moment of my life, i made the list. i think 50 years from now people are going to look at this as great journalism going on here and who stood up to a president acting like a despot, and who
held the president accountable. you're going to have a who's who of great journalists, working at the new yorker, a lot of them. >> in the history books, that's what really writes the story, the history book. and, i mean, write it in terms of writing it out, and also correcting it as well. facts. so morton, nixon secretly taped you and others within his white house. do you think that the trump administration is using similar tactics? >> i don't think so because as a result of learning about the taping, not only by nixon, but by roosevelt, by kennedy, by every post-war president, the congress put in a system, the fisa accord, it's well designed and makes it very difficult for
the president to try to conduct surveillance without going through the process of the courts. i don't think the rest of the government would participate in it. in nixon's time the fbi was told to wiretap and wiretap, and they had been told that by every president, congress had never told them it was illegal. and so they did it. i do not believe they would do it now. i think the bureaucracy knows what the war is, the war is absolutely clear, and i think they would resist. >> douglas, it looks like you want to say something. i've got to run, but go on, please. >> wikileaks and russia doing the intimidation, journalists may be being targeted by nefarious forces internationally now are having their personal e-mails and the like stolen, which is another form of surveillance. >> yeah. thank you, gentlemen, i appreciate it, have a good weekend. when we come back, more backlash for the "new york times" after their latest hire was revealed to have tweeted some really offensive things a few years ago. were her tweets racist? who decides? that's next. too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein. and i'm the founder of ugmonk. before shipstation it was crazy.
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she calls it countertrolling, they call it racism. what is it? i'm bringing in matt lewis and simone sanders. and a former director of communications for super track. glad to have you all this evening. simone, this is some of sarah's tweets critics say are offensive, many dating back five years, one tweet she wrote that couldn't enjoy the show "breaking bad" because the premise is just -- and here's what she says, the premise is just white people being miserable. and that it must be so boring to be white. she also tweeted, can't cancel white people and oh man it's kind of sick how much joy i get out of being cruel to old white men.
white people have stopped breeding, you'll all go extinct soon. my plan all along. dumb f-ing white people with their opinions like dogs -- on fire hydrants. you say they're not racist? >> no, i don't think sarah's tweets are racist. first of all, i think it's important to note that these tweets were dug up by a right wing -- it's not even conservative. it was a right wingers, people that identify with the white supremacist ideology and they were taken out on context. that being said i subscribe to the notion that i tweet, write or e-mail anything that i don't want splashed across "the new york times." >> does it matter who dug them up? >> it's selective. some are taken out of context. some of it was countertrolling. would i have written anything
like that? absolutely not. not racist for this reason, one, don, racism, being racist is not just prejudice, it's prejudice plus power. so one could argue that some of her tweets, even within context, note that she has a prejudice, perhaps, against white men. but that, in fact, does not make her racist. i don't think she's a racist. i absolutely think we're conflating two conversations. >> does it make her a bigot? >> no, i don't think it makes her a bigot either. again, you have to look at the tweets within the context. could we -- could she be prejudiced, could chef some not just implicit, but negative bias towards white men in america due to perhaps what she's experienced throughout her life? probably, absolutely. does that mean, though, that she is, in fact, racist? no because race is prejudice plus power. could she be prejudiced? absolutely. we're conflating many different conversations and we have to be clear about what we're talking about. >> ying, what do you think, are these tweets racist? >> i think the tweets are racist, whether sarah herself is a racist, that's a different question. if you look at her tweets, i actually spent quite a bit time -- >> can you separate those two for me? >> so if i could continue, i actually looked at a whole bunch of her tweets, a lot more than what you just read out loud. and that's quite a bit of time i can't get back. but it's clear that she's a
young lady who's very confused, very indiscreet, who's trying to be very funny, but who is failing spectacularly. and you sort of have to feel sorry for her that she somehow went through one of the best universities in the country, harvard law, and what she does is spends her entire time obsessing about white people and saying nasty things about white men and white women. but it's so -- also clear from her remarks she doesn't think all white people are what she describes. and so there is a certain element of attempting to be humorous, but not actually succeeding. however, if you look at her tweets, and if you actually do look at the context, the context is that she is purposely saying racist things against white people for what she believes is great effect. >> okay. i'm not -- again, i'm not sure.
so how do you separate -- >> what i would say about what symone just said, i think there is a great deal that is sad here. what it reflects is what is really said about identity politics in america in general is that race is your defining characteristic. and if you are somebody who is not white you get to say all kinds of vile things about white people. and there's no consequence. and i think what is sad here is that here is a young woman who is obviously very smart, smart enough to get into harvard, and yet she spends all her time saying all these nasty things about white people, as she knows they're at least racially tinged, if not racist, but she goes on doing that, that's how she's been taught. >> i've got to get matt in. matt, listen, she issued an apology, her own apology, a screen shot of the two examples
of the types of messages she receives. one reads, if i saw you, i would sock you in your lesbian face, and shut the "f" up, you dog-eating bleep. she says she was countertrolling. so what's wrong with punching back? >> well, i guess we all get a get out of jail card now because anything anybody has ever been fired for saying or tweeting could be countertrolling if that's an acceptable excuse. look, i'm not a big fan of this mob mentality where we go off things people tweeted five years ago and take them down. having said that, you and i both know that if matt lewis had written or said anything remotely like this about another race, or sexual orientation, i certainly wouldn't have a job on monday. i actually think there's -- this is a political story as well as a media story. you know, there are -- look, i think white people have historically been privileged, but there are a lot of working
class white americans out there, maybe you're a vietnam vet, maybe you're struggling with cancer, maybe you're unemployed, your factory went bankrupt, and you are living in ohio, and you're watching somebody working at the "new york times" who went to a great college shame you for being white, we wonder why donald trump is able to turn all these folks against us in the media. well, guess what? if you're a white republican living in ohio or michigan, and you have the idea that the media doesn't like you, isn't this proof that, in fact, that is the case, that the "new york times" is hiring somebody who has tweeted hundreds of tweets, like not just a handful like this, would get hired at the "new york times" of all places? i think it kind of reenforces, sadly, donald trump's message. >> i've got to take a break. but i want to continue this. we're going to go on. but this is the thing. you don't have to respond by twitter.
it always gets you in trouble because there's no context. if you're going to do something like that, then you write an article where there's context, where you can respond to people and it's just not sitting out there like that. and i do have to say, matt, i think it's a very good point, if i saw something like that from you i would say, you know what, i'm not sure matt should be working here anymore and you probably would not be working here anymore. who gets to decide what's racist or not? we'll talk about that after the break. discover card. hey, i'm curious about your social security alerts.
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symone sanders and ming ya. symone, you want to respond? >> matt brings up an important point about the media and why it is so important about the way folks talk about this quote/unquote issue of sarah and her tweets in "the new york times" is extremely important in the media, because, again, without any context, if you are not providing the full picture, just reading some of the articles that have been written over the last 24 hours or even some of the segments on cable news, you would think that sarah is just a flaming anti-white, you know, person. and that's just not true. we have to -- there is just a fuller and deeper conversation. >> but she did something really silly. let's be honest. >> i said that up top, don. someone shouldn't be writing things because -- >> let me read her statement. this is her journalism and the fact that she is a young asian woman have made her the subject of frequent online harassment
for a period of time. she responded to the harassment by imitating the rhetoric of her harassers. sees now that this approach only served to feed the vitriol that we too often see on social media. she regrets and "the times" does not condone it. >> i want to be clear, i'm not defending -- >> okay. you don't have to. just because someone -- just because someone said something terrible about you on social media does not mean you to respond. go through my social media feed, and i never respond. people say i can't believe that stuff is on there. i don't care. i'm not racist, so i'm not going to be drawn into it by responding to a stupid bigot on social media. and if i did, guess what? cnn would fire me. >> perhaps.
look, don, i agree with you. i don't respond to the trolls either. but all i'm saying is the -- for instance, the assertion that because sarah referred to white people in her tweets she is now somehow against all white people when we all know -- >> symone, i don't think that's the point. that's not the point that she is against all people. it sounds like you're making an excuse. >> i'm not making an excuse. >> who are someone who did something that is bigoted. >> don, i'm trying to figure out why you feel that way. i literally said it's not oklahoma okay, that no one should want things they don't want ending up on the front page of the "new york times" or anywhere else. i wrote it was silly. i said that. >> but the point she is not bigoted against all white people. that's not the point, though. >> i think it's important because that's what everybody says. conservative websites -- not even conservative. right-wing publications and folks that identify with the white supremecy ideology are spreading this.
folks that identify with the white supremacist ideology are currently online spreading this. >> okay. i got this. there are two other people on the panel. we'll fight on text message after the show. you're wrong, don. no, you're wrong, symone. you want to respond to that, ying? do you want to respond to that? >> i think all this hemming and hawing about whether this is racist or not, and oh, my gosh, can this woman say this and not hate all white people, i looked at a lot of her tweets and i said earlier that i don't think she feels that way all white people. i do think that one of the reasons that donald trump won was because he rejected all of this hemming and hawing. he rejected all of this identity politics. he rejected that it was okay for a young woman educated at harvard, one of our elite institutions to run around talking nasty things about an entire group of people of a particular race. >> i'm sorry, but donald trump was hateful. donald trump -- >> donald trump is an equal opportunity offender. >> donald trump said that -- >> symone, symone, donald trump is an equal opportunity offender and he would offend people of all colors, but not because of your race.
hold on a second. hold on a second. actually, what i was saying earlier was that the sad state of identity politics makes it not okay for us to talk about race. so when we talk about border security. >> that's wrong. >> apparently if we want tougher border security, your anti-hispanic. >> hold on. what do you mean identity politics that it's not okay to talk about race? >> well, the reason why this young woman has spent a couple of years -- actually, i think it was three years on twitter practically all the time saying nasty things against white people, her anti-white politics. >> you think because of identity politics when i bring up subjects like to and i talk about race on the show that people call me a race baiter. that's because of identity politics? >> i don't think there is anything wrong with talking about race, don. what i do believe is that identity politics has suffocated our public discourse and that it has made it impossible for people to see beyond race. >> okay. matt, i've got to get you in and
we're over. >> i think for a lot of americans who have had a very liberal idea that we should have a color-blind society. and for a long time a lot of white americans didn't even think of themselves as white, actually. and what's happened is there has been a rise of race consciousness. and i think the alt-right has actually been behind that. they want white people to feel like a tribe. and for a long time white people didn't really feel that way. most white people. and i think what happened here what this journalist did at the "new york times" has actually helped the alt-right, to help white people start to feel like they're a tribe under attack and that they need to stick together. i think that's very unproductive. >> you know that's false. >> i think it's happening. i don't like the idea. >> it's really silly, the word color-blind. you want people to be able to see your color. >> but don, i want you to judge me as a person, as an individual, as -- >> and as a person, i'm a black woman. i want people to see i'm a black woman. >> and that it's okay to be different. i don't want people to look at me and think i'm just some blank
person on the screen or some blank person in person. can you put them back up on the screen, i'm not done with them yet. thank you. >> that's generalizing. >> okay. we got to go. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. edge of the box, willingham shoots... goooooooaaaaaaaallllllll! that...was...magic. willingham tucks it in and puts the championship to bed. sweet dreams, nighty night. as long as soccer players celebrate with a slide, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. pressure, what pressure? the players on the...
PresidentOfficeClaimsTotal2140Friends422916AllLotWayNopeA recap of the day's news.
A recap of the day's news.
A recap of the day's news.
straight about the steel industry. >> u.s. steel just announced that they're building six new steel mills. >> if you care about the truth, nope, that's not the truth. the only thing u.s. steel has announced is that it will restart two blast furnaces, restart two blast furnaces, not six new steel mills. and it's probably no coincidence the president seems to be especially truth challenged when it comes to russia. and this tweet from july 24th, he famously claims russia will be pushing for democrats in the midterms because, according to him, they don't want trump. but i want you to listen closely. this is vladimir putin himself coming from his own mouth, he said at the press conference after the disastrous summit in helsinki. >> president putin, did you want president trump to win the election and did you direct any of your officials to help him do
that? >> translator: yes, i did, yes, i did because he talked about bringing the u.s./russia relationship back to normal. >> said for himself he wanted trump to win, not democrats. it should be no surprise that president trump has made more than 378 misleading statements about the russia investigation so far. his favorite being, branding it a witch hunt. >> it's a total witch hunt. i've been saying it for a long time. they call it the rigged witch hunt. i have this witch hunt. it's a witch hunt, that's all it is. they have phony witch hunts. it's like a witch hunt. it's like a witch hunt. the witch hunt continues. the entire thing has been a witch hunt. this is a pure and simple witch hunt. >> a lot of witches have been caught. but it's not a witch hunt, no matter how many times he says it. the fact is is special counsel robert mueller has brought 191 criminal charges against 35 defendants.
A recap of the day's news.
part is, this isn't new. it's not by accident. and we'll no doubt hear and see more next week. >> yeah, that -- i mean, that is not a lie. we can be assured of that, and the sort of continuation or the repetition of the lie becomes donald trump's own reality. i think what you're also seeing, though, is that his sense of what reality is bumping up against the reality of facts. and you're seeing it mostly, of course, in the russian investigation. those facts don't lie, the number of people who have pled guilty, the number of people who are testifying, the number of indictments that are going on, the ties that are getting close, if not within essentially the oval office, and so i think part of the lying is a reaction to the reality that donald trump is facing, at least as it pertains to the russia investigation at this stage. >> yeah. and then we have this news that the manhattan madam, kristin davis met with mueller's team,
they're interested in her ties to roger stone. why does roger stone's name continue to pop up in this investigation? >> well, what we know so far in the public reporting is that roger stone appears to have had contact both with guccifer 2, the gru russian military intelligence officers who attacked john podesta and other democratic e-mails, as well as with wikileaks which was the platform where these e-mails came out. and that's just based on public reporting. that stuff's relatively old. part of what's interesting about mueller's ongoing interest in this, i think he's up to seven or nine different roger stone advisers or colleagues that he has been interviewing, is that he has some sort of ongoing interest with roger stone. and obviously we don't know what it is. but we know that mueller doesn't yet know the thing that mueller is looking for.
and that, in and of itself, is pretty interesting to us. >> yeah. every -- every step of the way, carrie, mueller has -- you know, he's been methodical in who he meets with. he's laser focused, certainly wouldn't be meeting with this woman unless he had good reason to do so. >> well, that's right. i mean, i think garrett's on the right track, which is that the investigators and the special counsel team, they are interviewing people around roger stone. and so whatever is the piece of the investigation most likely the piece that goes to the heart of the inquiry into whether there were individuals affiliated with the campaign, roger stone being one of them who actually may have had advanced knowledge or been involved in some way with the russian influence campaign, they are circling around roger stone to determine how much information they can learn based on what witnesses say as well as what their documentary evidence or the digital evidence that they're obtaining says. and then they'll determine
whether or not they want to talk to him specifically, whether that's through a voluntary interview or whether that's through grand jury or whether they decide they don't need to talk to him at all. they're figuring out the answers to what their questions would be for him in advance through these other witnesses in his circle. >> and juliet kayyem, i am sure, a lot of people are wondering what does the manhattan madam have to do with the russia investigation? >> i think that 2018 was missing was the manhattan madam, remember, she came into sort of prominent in the elliott spitzer, the former governor of new york. sometimes it's the 1980s and 1990s all over again. look, their relationship is described as that they've had ties. we don't know what these ties are. we don't know what the nature of the relationship is. he represent -- or she ran for office once. he was her campaign manager. she worked for him once. and so the fact that she voluntarily came forward, maybe
either because she has exonerating evidence or because she sees as carrie was describing the sort of -- you know, the wagons circling around one person and she may have information. so, you know, mueller is a busy guy. he's not interviewing people that may not have something relevant. and the fact that this cast of characters that surrounds the trump campaign from 2016, you know everyone from, you know, stone to the, you know, stormy daniels to now the manhattan madam, you know, that's the nature of the people he hung out with. and that's a character quality that is represented in the president of the united states. there's no -- that's not a judgment. it's just these are the people he surrounded himself with. >> yeah. i was in my neighborhood the other day and i saw them from afar, and i was like, oh my gosh, there's a manhattan madam and roger stone in the same neighborhood, it was so odd. >> i know. the fact we're reading about elliott spitzer again is it's sort of -- you have to be of a
certain age to remember this. >> garrett, i want to read this statement. roger stone says kristin davis is a long-time associate of mine. i am the god father to her 2-year-old son. she knows nothing about russian collusion, wikileaks. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. what do you think, garrett? >> juliet had a point there i wanted to emphasize and expand upon. mueller is not on a wild goose case to turn up criminal investigations, criminal charges against anyone for anything. in fact, it was cnn's reporting originally on monday this week that showed that he has turned over the tony podesta and vin weber ends of his investigation to the southern district of new york, the manhattan federal prosecutors. what that means is that what he's actually doing, and we see this with the michael cohen case
and we see this in a number of other instances, he's handing off things that don't seem related to his core russia probe. so the fact that he is staying focused on roger stone means that he thinks roger stone is the center or part of the center of this russia question. this isn't sort of some unrelated tax charges or, you know, some prostitution or escort charges dating back to the 1990s, totally unrelated. this is something that is central to bob mueller's investigation that roger stone is the key to unlocking. >> okay. i need you guys to stick around. we'll continue on for one more round after this. when we come back, a former trump campaign aide socialized with alleged russian agent maria butna, weeks before the election, inviting her to his birthday party.
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and they're reporting that she sought out interactions with j.d. gordon who served as trump's campaign director on national security for six months before he moved over to the transition team. that's according to testimony and documents provided to the senate intelligence committee. significant? >> oh, absolutely. what we have to remember is the case that's trying to be made, right now she's in jail. what she's saying or not saying is going to be relevant for any investigation. what's more important is the extent to which we are now seeing how early on in this campaign the national security team, this is not like some finance person, this is the -- one of the leads of trump's very small national security team were receptive to someone like maria. right? in other words, no other campaign in the history of the presidency has had so many russians hanging out around the various teams. so what this reporting shows is
that those overtures were very, very close to the election day itself, and they were social enough that people -- that she was invited to birthday parties and concerts and whatever else. these aren't random. i saw her at a conference kind of relationships. these are actually she gets invited by leaders of the national security team and not some other part of the trump campaign. so i think this is very significant, both in terms of how close it was to the campaign, and how close her ties were to the national security apparatus of the trump transition. >> this is some of the details, get them right here, garrett, they exchanged e-mails in september and october of 2016, j.d. gordon invited butina to a concert and a birthday party. what we're seeing is an alleged russian agent getting close to someone in trump's orbit. right? >> yeah. and, remember, there are some
unanswered, loose threads involving j.d. gordon already in this investigation. he was involved in the attempt to change the platform language of the republican -- at the republican convention to make it more pro-russia, more anti-ukraine. that was the same convention, of course, that had paul manafort, had rick gates, where jeff sessions was meeting with sergei kislyak on the side of the convention. it spools some interesting and intriguing avenues that could help us answer some of the fundamental unanswered questions we still have about what transpired in the middle of the trump campaign in 2016. >> so paul manafort's accountant testified today, carrie, and one of them is cindy laporter who got immunity. she said she falsified a $
$900,000 loan amount so manafort could pay less taxes. is that damning? >> it's very -- it's dramatic. she has been granted immunity so that she would testify and not incriminate herself. she has admitted she knew some of what they were doing was illegal. so i think that testimony probably was very powerful. and the cooperation of the accountants and the bookkeeper, what that does is that provides additional details and context to what i think is really a very document-heavy trial, and a document-heavy case. in other words, most of the serious evidence that will support the elements of the crime, if the jury does find him guilty, will come from the actual documents themselves and the falsified records. someone like this, though, she provides a face and personal knowledge of what was going on behind the scenes. >> so, carrie, this is really a
preview of what we're going to hear from the prosecution star witness, rick gates? >> well, in some ways, rick gates will, i think, provide even more details if, in fact, he does testify. he will have additional questions from the defense about, you know, his cooperation agreement as well. and he was part of this scheme. so that adds a different dimension to his testimony where she was someone, as i understand from the proceedings today, who expressed remorse at having known that some of this was wrong activity, but has a little bit of distance in that she was the accountant, she wasn't the person sort of pursuing the scheme. >> with so much -- juliette, with so much evidence against manafort, what is his strategy? is he banking on a pardon from the president or a mistrial? >> oh, his strategy may be just to delay this as long as possible and hopefully win in court. i think at this stage we don't
know his strategy because as carrie was pointing out, the evidence does seem pretty damning so far. it's document heavy, but also you have these five witnesses who worked with him day in and day out who are testifying against him. so it's -- you know, we always are looking for is there sort of some grand strategy to all this different behavior, stone or manafort or the former national security adviser. maybe the strategy is every man to himself now. these are how conspiracies unravel, right, is that no one knows what the other person is doing. so flynn doesn't know what his deputy is saying. stone doesn't know what flynn is saying. and this is basically how conspiracies fall apart. there may not be a grand strategy for any of them except for self-preservation at this stage, and some of them looking at the writing on the wall, why we have so many guilty pleas at this stage, they're saying the only saving grace at this stage
is if i plead. you know, this is -- you know, you're seeing people basically not know whether they'll survive the unraveling of the grand conspiracy. so it's every man and woman in some cases to themselves. >> garrett, just to wrap it up here. i know you don't have a crystal ball. take us forward to next week. what do you expect? >> well, what i think we're going to see is, you know, paul manafort try to push this forward as best he can. he is probably holding out hope that there might be one juror in the midst of this who has listened to the president say this is a hoax, that this is a witch hunt, that paul manafort, you know, is being caught up and railroaded by the special counsel. you know, it's a pretty damning case based on evidence and testimony. but all you need is one juror sitting there saying, you know, i don't know that i buy this. >> all right. thank you all. have a good weekend. when we come back, the human
rights office condemning president trump's attacks on the media saying he is violating not only freedom of the press, but human rights. is this president damaging this country beyond repair? sfx: [cell phone dialing] no. no, no, no, no, no. cancel. cancel. please. aaagh! being in the know is a good thing. that's why discover will alert you if your social security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites.
foundation. also with us, douglas brinkley, cnn presidential historian. good to have both of you on. good evening. >> thank you. >> doug, you and experts say that president trump's attacks on the press are strategic, designed to undermine confidence in reporting and raise doubts about verifiable facts. so what does it say, what does it say to you that the u.n. human rights office is calling out the president of the united states? >> i'm glad they're calling him out. we're in a crisis where we have the president here who's attacking the first amendment, you know, saying horrific things about journalists, creating a feeling of violence against even the people like jim acosta at cnn wherever he goes. you know, when we deal with the nixon years, don, and look back, you know, nixon was trying to -- his enemies list was looking at the -- you know, who -- how we can sic the irs on people. now i'm worried about violence
towards journalists because of the way donald trump talks about the fake news media, being disgusting, the enemy of the people. he's embarrassing us internationally. but worse, i think journalists are starting to feel threatened by his presidency. >> as a historian, to hear the president of the united states refer to the press as an enemy of the people, has that ever happened before? >> it's horrific. i mean, you know, nixon, i mentioned, kept an enemies list, and was starting to go after people, but he is really trying to incite violence against reporters. how else can you interpret it? if they're the enemy, you're supposed to stamp out the enemy. and he doubles down on it, plays games with it, thinks it's funny. and so i think we have a big problem with donald trump's -- it's because he's not a reader in the end, but his misunderstanding of even what the role of journalism is in our constitution, the first amendment. >> so, morton, you were actually
on president nixon's enemies list. >> yes, i was. >> give me your reaction of what we have seen from the trump white house. is history repeating itself? >> no, it's far worse than anything that occurred during the nixon administration. nixon did not attack the press as a group. he did not do anything which intended to incite violence against the press. he did many things which were inappropriate, and i think he would have been and should have been impeached if he had not resigned. but donald trump is a far more evil and dangerous man, and he is, i think, trying to intimidate the press. he is en couraging his followers to conduct violence against the press. the great shame is that the rest of the republican party, which spoke out against nixon, is, with a few exceptions, not doing what they should be doing, which is defending the constitution and siding with the rest of us and saying this man has to go. >> so, you know, i guess part of
the media, you know, and you are now sort of de facto, right, by extension, so you're enemies of the people. i'm wondering what it was like living as someone he pointed out specifically, one person as an enemy of the president of the united states. >> you're asking me how i felt to be on the enemies list? >> yeah. >> next to my name it said a scandal would be helpful here. but it clearly was more of an aspiration on their part than anything that they tried to do. by the time we learned of it, the existence of the list from john dean, nixon was in big trouble. and i don't think people who were on the list felt in any physical danger, certainly. and not much political danger. we felt the country was coming around to understand that nixon could not be allowed to continue to be president and that he had to be removed from office by a constitutional process. people, looking back, thought they may have been investigated
by the irs inappropriately. i never felt that, and have never been audited, in fact, by the irs. but this is a wholly different situation. this is a situation in which the press, the american public is being told not to trust journalists, not to believe in facts. and supporters of the president -- >> they feel threatened. you said you didn't then, people didn't feel threatened, but journalists feel threatened now, when they're being in pens, roped off and pointed out in the back of the auditorium, and people screaming at them. people feel threatened now and they're getting specific threats against them. >> it's the rest of us that have to defend the press because, as we all know, a free press is a vital element of our constitutional system. >> absolutely. doug, you say that nixon seems like a statesman compared to trump. talk to me about that. >> yeah, i mean, you know, nixon
went in 1972 to china and the famous break through with china, he had reporters with him, a selection who were friendly, but he had unfriendly reporters with him. he was trying to win them in public opinion. donald trump wants to destroy them and tamp them out. the good news is, don, you're part of history now, there's a group of journalists who have stood up to donald trump, are doing deep investigation at "washington post," "new york times," people like michael schmidt, phil rucker, many others are going to go down in history -- maggie, of course. these are brave figures. in the nixon enemies list, besides morton, paul newman made the list and the great journalist daniel shore, and both of them -- newman said it's the great moment of my life, i made the list. i think 50 years from now people are going to look at this as great journalism going on here and who stood up to a president
acting like a despot, and who held the president accountable. you're going to have a who's who of great journalists, working at the new yorker, a lot of them. >> in the history books, that's what really writes the story, the history book. and, i mean, write it in terms of writing it out, and also correcting it as well. facts. so morton, nixon secretly taped you and others within his white house. do you think that the trump administration is using similar tactics? >> i don't think so because as a result of learning about the taping, not only by nixon, but by roosevelt, by kennedy, by every post-war president, the congress put in a system, the fis cord, it's well designed and makes it very difficult for the president to try to conduct surveillance without going through the process of the
courts. i don't think the rest of the government would participate in it. in nixon's time the fbi was told to wiretap and wiretap, and they had been told that by every president, congress had never told them it was illegal. and so they did it. i do not believe they would do it now. i think the bureaucracy knows what the war is, the war is absolutely clear, and i think they would resist. >> douglas, it looks like you want to say something. i've got to run, but go on, please. >> wikileaks and russia doing the intimidation, journalists may be being targeted by nefarious forces internationally now are having their personal e-mails and the like stolen, which is another form of surveillance. >> yeah. thank you, gentlemen, i appreciate it, have a good weekend. when we come back, more backlash for the "new york times" after their latest hire was revealed to have tweeted some really offensive things a few years ago. were her tweets racist?
who decides? that's next. i'm april kennedy and i'm an arborist
with pg&e in the sierras. since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future.
"the new york times" is trying to diffuse the uproar created with the hiring of their new writer sarah chung. she calls it countertrolling, they call it racism. what is it? i'm bringing in matt lewis and simone sanders. and a former director of communications for super track. glad to have you all this evening. simone, this is some of sarah's tweets critics say are offensive, many dating back five years, one tweet she wrote that couldn't enjoy the show "breaking bad" because the premise is just -- and here's what she says, the premise is just white people being miserable. and that it must be so boring to
be white. she also tweeted, can't cancel white people and oh man it's kind of sick how much joy i get out of being cruel to old white men. white people have stopped breeding, you'll all go extinct soon. my plan all along. dumb f-ing white people with their opinions like dogs -- on fire hydrants. you say they're not racist? >> no, i don't think sarah's tweets are racist. first of all, i think it's important to note that these tweets were dug up by a right wing -- it's not even conservative. it was a right wingers, people that identify with the white supremacist ideology and they were taken out on context. that being said i subscribe to the notion that i tweet, write or e-mail anything that i don't want splashed across "the new york times." >> does it matter who dug them up? >> it's selective.
some are taken out of context. some of it was countertrolling. would i have written anything like that? absolutely not. not racist for this reason, one, don, racism, being racist is not just prejudice, it's prejudice plus power. so one could argue that some of her tweets, even within context, note that she has a prejudice, perhaps, against white men. but that, in fact, does not make her racist. i don't think she's a racist. i absolutely think we're conflating two conversations. >> does it make her a bigot? >> no, i don't think it makes her a bigot either. again, you have to look at the tweets within the context. could we -- could she be prejudiced, could chef some not just implicit, but negative bias towards white men in america due to perhaps what she's experienced throughout her life? probably, absolutely. does that mean, though, that she is, in fact, racist? no because race is prejudice plus power. could she be prejudiced?
absolutely. we're conflating many different conversations and we have to be clear about what we're talking about. >> ying, what do you think, are these tweets racist? >> i think the tweets are racist, whether sarah herself is a racist, that's a different question. if you look at her tweets, i actually spent quite a bit time -- >> can you separate those two for me? >> so if i could continue, i actually looked at a whole bunch of her tweets, a lot more than what you just read out loud. and that's quite a bit of time i can't get back. but it's clear that she's a young lady who's very confused, very indiscreet, who's trying to be very funny, but who is failing spectacularry. and you sort of have to feel sorry for her that she somehow went through one of the best universities in the country, harvard law, and what she does is spends her entire time obsessing about white people and saying nasty things about white men and white women. but it's so -- also clear from her remarks she doesn't think all white people are what she
describes. and so there is a certain element of attempting to be humorous, but not actually succeeding. however, if you look at her tweets, and if you actually do look at the context, the context is that she is purposely saying racist things against white people for what she believes is great effect. >> okay. i'm not -- again, i'm not sure. so how do you separate -- >> what i would say about what symone just said, i think there is a great deal that is sad here. what it reflects is what is really said about identity politics in america in general is that race is your defining characteristic. and if you are somebody who is not white you get to say all kinds of vile things about white people. and there's no consequence. and i think what is sad here is that here is a young woman who is obviously very smart, smart enough to get into harvard, and yet she spends all her time saying all these nasty things about white people, as she knows
they're at least racially tinged, if not racist, but she goes on doing that, that's how she's been taught. >> i've got to get matt in. matt, listen, she issued an apology, her own apology, a screen shot of the two examples of the types of messages she receives. one reads, if i saw you, i would sock you in your lesbian face, and shut the "f" up, you dog-eating bleep. she says she was countertrolling. so what's wrong with punching back? >> well, i guess we all get a get out of jail card now because anything anybody has ever been fired for saying or tweeting could be countertrolling if that's an acceptable excuse. look, i'm not a big fan of this mob mentality where we go off things people tweeted five years ago and take them down. having said that, you and i both know that if matt lewis had written or said anything remotely like this about another race, or sexual orientation, i
certainly wouldn't have a job on monday. i actually think there's -- this is a political story as well as a media story. you know, there are -- look, i think white people have historically been privileged, but there are a lot of working class white americans out there, maybe you're a vietnam vet, maybe you're struggling with cancer, maybe you're unemployed, your factory went bankrupt, and you are living in ohio, and you're watching somebody working at the "new york times" who went to a great college shame you for being white, we wonder why donald trump is able to turn all these folks against us in the media. well, guess what? if you're a white republican living in ohio or michigan, and you have the idea that the media doesn't like you, isn't this proof that, in fact, that is the case, that the "new york times" is hiring somebody who has tweeted hundreds of tweets, like not just a handful like this, would get hired at the "new york times" of all places?
i think it kind of reenforces, sadly, donald trump's message. >> i've got to take a break. but i want to continue this. we're going to go on. but this is the thing. you don't have to respond by twitter. it always gets you in trouble because there's no context. if you're going to do something like that, then you write an article where there's context, where you can respond to people and it's just not sitting out there like that. and i do have to say, matt, i think it's a very good point, if i saw something like that from you i would say, you know what, i'm not sure matt should be working here anymore and you probably would not be working here anymore. who gets to decide what's racist or not? we'll talk about that after the break. and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪
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all right. so the firestorm is heating up over -- in the wake of the "new york times" hiring of sarah jong, a tech report were a history of anti-white tweets. back with me now, matt lewis, simone saunders and ming ya. simone, you want to respond? >> matt brings up an important point about the media and why it is so important about the way folks talk about this quote/unquote issue of sarah and her tweets in "the new york times" is extremely important in the media, because, again, without any context, if you are not providing the full picture, just reading some of the articles that have been written over the last 24 hours or even some of the segments on cable news, you would think that sarah is just a flaming anti-white, you know, person. and that's just not true. we have to -- there is just a fuller and deeper conversation. >> but she did something really
sillily. let's be honest. >> i said that up top, don. someone shouldn't be writing things because -- >> this is her journalism and the fact that she is a young asian woman have made her the subject of frequent online harassment for a period of time. she responded to the harassment by imitating the rhetoric of her harassers. sees now that this approach only served the vitriol that we too often see on social media. she regrets and "the times" does not condone it. >> i want to be clear, i'm not defending -- >> okay. you don't have to. just because someone -- just because someone said something terrible about you on social media does not mean you to respond. go through my social media feed, and i never respond. people say i can't believe that stuff is on there. i don't care. i'm not racist, so i'm not going to be drawn into it by
responding to a stupid bigot on social media. and if i did, guess what? cnn would fire me. >> perhaps. look, don, i agree with you. i don't respond to the trolls either. but all i'm saying is the -- for instance, the assertion that because sarah referred to white people in her tweets she is now somehow against all white people when we all know -- >> that sim hone, i don't think that's the point. that's not the point that she is against all people. it sounds like you're making an excuse. >> i'm not making an excuse. >> who are someone who did something that is bigoted. >> don, i'm trying to figure out why you feel that way. i literally said it's not oklahoma okay, that no one should want things they don't want ending up on the front page of the "new york times" or anywhere else. i said that. >> but the point she is not bigoted against all white people. that's not the point, though. >> i think it's important because that's what everybody says. conservative -- not even conservatives. i don't want the say that because i have really great conservative friends. right wing websites, right wing
publications and folks that identify with the white supremacist ideology are currently online spreading this. >> okay. i got this. there are two other people on the panel. we'll fight on text message after the show. you're wrong, don. no, you're wrong, symone. you want to respond to that, ying? do you want to respond to that? >> i think all this hemming and hawing about whether this is racist or not, and oh, my gosh, can this woman say this and not hate all white people, i looked at a lot of her tweets and i said earlier that i don't think she feels that wayer all white people. i do think that one of the reasons that donald trump won was because he rejected all of this hemming and hawing. he rejected all of this identity politics. he rejected that it was okay for a young woman educated at harvard, one of our elite institutions to run around talking nasty things about an entire group of people of a particular race. >> i'm sorry, but donald trump was hateful.
donald trump -- >> donald trump is an equal opportunity offender. >> donald trump said that -- >> symone, symone, donald trump is an equal opportunity offender and he would offend people of all colors, but not because of your race. hold on a second. hold on a second. actually, what i was saying earlier was that the sad state of identity politics makes it not okay for us to talk about race. so when we talk about border security. >> that's wrong. >> apparently if we want tougher border security, your anti-hispanic. >> hold on. what do you mean identity politics that it's not okay to talk about race? >> well, the reason why this young woman has spent a couple of years -- actually, i think it was three years on twitter practically all the time saying nasty things against white people -- >> you think because of identity politics when i bring up subjects like to and i talk about race on the show that people call me a race baiter. that's because of identity politics? >> i don't think there is anything wrong with talking
about race, don. what i do believe is that identity politics has suffocated our public discourse and that it has made it impossible for people to see beyond race. >> okay. matt, i've got to get you in and we're over. >> i think for a lot of americans who have had a very liberal idea that we should have a color-blind society. and for a long time a lot of white americans didn't even think of themselves as white, actually. and what's happened is there has been a rise of race consciousness. and i think the alt-right has actually been behind that. they want white people to feel like a tribe. and for a long time white people didn't really feel that way. most white people. and i think what happened here what this journalist did at the "new york times" has actually helped the alt-right, to help white people start to feel like they're a tribin' attack and that they need to stick together. i think that's very unproductive. >> you know that's false. >> i think it's happening. i don't like the idea. >> it's really silly, the word
color-bli color-blind. you want people to be able to see your color. >> but don, i want you to judge me as a person, as an individual, as -- >> and as a person, i'm a black woman. i want people to see i'm a black woman. >> and that it's okay to be different. i don't want people to look at me and think i'm just some blank person on the screen or some blank person in person. you president them back up on the screen? i'm not done with them yet. thank you. >> that's generalizing. >> okay. we got to go. thank you. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. no. no, no, no, no, no. cancel. cancel. please. aaagh! being in the know is a good thing. that's why discover will alert you if your social security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites.
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area, ostensibly to rally for a representative locked in a dead heat in the house race. he seems more interested in pleasing his base than boosting candidates. earlier, he stumped in pennsylvania for lou barletta, going up for a seat against bob casey. but he spent time listing his grievances against the media and touting his accomplishments, and when talking about lou barletta's opponent, trump described that as the boring stuff because sources tell cnn that president trump is increasingly frustrated with the russia investigation, the fact that it's still going on and seemingly produced no evidence of collusion. but the probe could be far from over, as president trump's legal team is continuing to negotiate the final details of a potential sit-down interview between president trump and special counsel robert mueller. and aides tell cnn that they hope by filling trump's schedule
with these political events, they can help take trump's mind off the investigation, can improve his worsening mood in the ohio special election could provide a crucial opportunity for president trump to do just that as republicans are really hoping to avoid another democratic victory in a district that trump won easily just two years ago. christi. >> all righty. sarah westwood, thank you so much. appreciate it. well, there's a new twist in the russia investigation. sources tell cnn robert mueller's team has interviewed the woman known as the manhattan madam. here's cnn political correspondent sara murray with a look at the possible connection to the collusion probe. >> reporter: kristin davis, the woman known as the manhattan madam, meeting with special council robert mueller's team for a voluntary interview earlier this week, sources tell cnn. investigators apparently interested in her ties to longtime trump adviser roger stone. she and stone have been close friends for a decade. investigators also expressed
interest in having davis testify before a grand jury. the latest indication prosecutors are aiming to build a case against stone. davis' lawyer declined to comment. in a statement, stone tells cnn, "kristin davis is a longtime friend and associate of mine. i am the godfather to her 2-year-old son. she knows nothing about russian collusion, wikileaks collaboration, or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election, which i thought was the subject of this probe. i understand she appeared voluntarily. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. davis once ran a prostitution ring and went to jail surrounding the prosecution of eliot spitzer. >> the remorse i feel will always be with me. >> reporter: she's worked with stone over the years, and in late 2016, she joined his payroll to help him with clerical tasks. mueller's team has been looking into possible contact between stone and wikileaks founder
julian assange during the 2016 campaign. >> yeah, i followed assange's twitter feed. i had a goggle alert for him. i read every interview he gave. you could foreshadow what he was doing, but i'm not involved in any collusion or conspiracy with the russians or anyone else. and there's no evidence to the contrary. >> reporter: investigators have also been probing stone's finances and his personal life. people familiar with the situation say at least two witnesses were asked whether stone was actually the father of davis' son. earlier this week, stone posted a photo of davis and her child to instagram with this caption -- "why do fbi agents dispatched by robert mueller keep asking a number of my current and former associates if i am this baby's father? what does this have to do with russian collusion and the 2016 election?" now, this week, another former associate of roger stone, andrew miller, was also ordered to testify before the mueller grand jury. yet another indication of how the special counsel's team seems to be circling around roger
stone. sara murray, cnn, washington. >> sara, thank you so much. a commentary writer for "the washington examiner" is here, along with joey jackson, legal analyst and defense attorney. thank you both for being with us. saraj, i want to ask you, the fact that mueller even met with her at all, what does that tell you about the trajectory of where this is going and where it's headed? >> there are likely two possible outcomes to this trajectory, christi, one of which is trying to paint a broader picture of the trump campaign during the 2016 election and trying to get a sense of what roger stone knew as opposed to, you know, what he actually dealt with in terms of with the russian government, whatever foreign interest, like in the instance of paul manafort, who is now being, you know, held in, you know, looking at particularly the judge
trump campaign. you don't have that link. and so, we can't look at this particular madam investigation and her voluntary cooperation at this point in isolation. we have to view it in the broader picture. they are, the federal government, investigating stone. stone has had contact -- right, remember guccifer, which was a twitter handle tied back to the russians and russian intelligence officers. so, why is someone who is close to trump, who is involved in the campaign, who is a strategist, communicating with the russians? what's the link, if any? what's the inappropriate, untoward, or even illegal act, if any? so, in order to know that, you go to the associates who know roger stone to discuss his m.o., to discuss what he's doing, who he's communicating with, what you know him, you know, ultimately to do in terms of transacting with people, and then potentially you get that. remember, christi, final word is that, you know, generally people, if they do commit crimes, not suggesting he has,
they don't just do it in the bright of day, right? they do it in the dark of night. so you have to look at all types of associations in order to determine whether there's something inappropriate. so, that's why they're looking at stone, because he could provide the critical link that would lead to the "c" question, collusion -- again, i'm sorry -- conspiracy, since this collusion, no collusion, collusion's not a crime, conspiracy is, and that's why they're looking at it. >> got you. i want to move to the manafort trial. 18 charges, tax and banking crimes here for paul manafort from a campaign chair for president trump. interesting this week the accountants who testified here, particularly cindy laporta. she testified that her firm falsified a loan amount at the request of rick gates to help manafort pay less taxes. does that, joey, play right into the defense that gates was the one facilitating all of this and that manafort didn't know anything about it? >> short answer, christi,
absolutely not. you know, big picture, again, on this. i do not understand why he would be, that is, manafort, taking the case to trial. understand that of the 18 counts in the indictment, prosecutors need one victory. do the math from a statistical perspective, and you tell me how you get out from under that. and so, the only thing i could think, again, big picture, is that he's holding out for a pardon. we know that the president doesn't like the investigation. we know the president has stated that he believes manafort's treated unfairly. and so, this could be a very well and academic exercise in as much as after the fact, should he be convicted -- i think he will -- he'll be pardoned. but to your point, looking at the accountant's testimony, the bookkeeper's testimony, when you look at documentary evidence speaking to the issue of forged documents, e-mails which essentially prove and corroborate the falsity of the documents, offshore foreign accounts that were never disclosed, you wonder, wow!
this doesn't turn on rick gates and his testimony alone, which the defense would like to attack and say he's the guy that's doing everything, and paul manafort was just along for the ride. there's much more compelling evidence in that. it does not turn on a word. it turns on documents. and when it does that and there's a paper trail, it's very hard to get from out under any type of prosecution, notwithstanding what defense you have. and so, i think this represents trouble. i think he'll be convicted. >> okay. so, he thinks he's going to be convicted, siraj. president trump's, outside of his association, i guess, with manafort -- because these are all alleged crimes that happened before he had any association with the pretsident, but that association between the two, other than the optics, is there any real risk to the president in a conviction for paul manafort here? >> the only real risks, really, is the president's reputation, because paul manafort has a reputation of being sort of a seedy lobbyist in washington who has been known to, you know, put his connections out there with
foreign governments and not disclose those connections. so, if you're looking at manafort and his connection to the trump campaign, sure, there may not be actual conspiracy to c collude with foreign governments, let alone the russian government, but there is a possibility that manafort may have used his connections to kind of leverage the trump campaign in a better position during the 2016 election, and that is probably why they are going after him in this regard. there isn't any evidence right now that manafort had anything to do with connecting the trump campaign to the russian government. >> right. >> we don't have that. but the fact that he is a part of it is just another stain on the campaign. >> yeah. the optics don't do any favors here. siraj hashmi and joey jackson, always appreciate your perspectives. thank you. >> thank you. u.s. intel chiefs say that russia may be trying to hack the midterms, but president trump is calling it all a big hoax. we'll ask our national security expert what to make of these mixed messages from washington.
next. also, you know the tsa is considering ending security screenings at small airports across the country? yes! that's just one of many options that they're looking into to save money. also, the reward is increasing for clues in the disappearance of a missing university of iowa student. how this tight-knit community is coping with so much uncertainty right now. just let her go and let's get past this. it's a high-tech revolution in sleep. the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. and snoring? how smart is that? smarter sleep. to help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the patience of a saint. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999.
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fda approved for over 18 years. president trump and his administration are sending mixed messages on russian election meddling, hours after his top national security officials warned that russia may be trying to hack u.s. elections again. the president called it a russian hoax during a rally. take a listen. >> the intelligence community continues to be concerned about
the threats of upcoming u.s. elections, both the midterms and the presidential elections of 2020. >> our democracy itself is in the crosshairs. >> make no mistake, the scope of this foreign influence threat is both broad and deep. >> now we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it's a hoax, okay? i'll tell you what, russia's very unhappy that trump won. >> all right, joining me now is juliette kayyem, former assistant secretary of the department of homeland security. good morning. >> good morning. >> so, let me ask you the obvious. what do you make of this incredible contradiction? >> it is hard to fathom in any other administration where you would have your national security apparatus stating the truth -- so it's not that there's mixed messages.
there is a factual, truthful message, which is the russians continue to try to infiltrate our campaign, social media, and disrupt our democratic processes. and then there is an untruth message, basically a lie, which is that all the russia discussion is a hoax. so, there's no way of melding the pieces. you just either have to accept that the president is off in his own land and the national security apparatus is going to do everything it can to protect the united states, or that the president is essentially, basically signaling to russia, as many people now wonder, that we will not do enough to stop him, to stop putin from doing this again in 2018. so, it's just -- it's unfathomable that this exists right now, but i think we've sort of gotten used to it, of these sort of two different worlds, the national security world, fact-based world, and then donald trump's tweets and statements. >> and the president's
statements are especially important when it comes to trying to deter the russians from doing this again, because he's the one that's going to say, hey, if you do, this is what's going to happen. and yet, he doesn't. so, we can try and protect our system as much as possible, but part of that deterrence is the message coming out of the leader of the free world. >> that's exactly right. so, i've been calling this come hither collusion. you know, we have all these discussions about collusion in 2016 and whether it's been proved. but i think if you put all the facts together about what donald trump has done -- he's denied that the russians -- you know, he's denied sort of the facts about what the russians did in 2016. the republicans have sort of denied funding to state and locals to prepare for it. trump says he has a good relationship with putin, never really challenges him. trump seems to be signaling, right, to the extent that national security is as much about, you know, war and military efforts as it is about the united states signaling to our adversaries that we will not
tolerate certain conduct, trump is signaling to putin that he does not view russia's infiltration as a problem, so it's sort of what i call the come hither, right? and any rational russian, right, including putin, would look at what donald trump is saying and believe that this president is not concerned and is not putting the full force of our apparatus to protect the united states. so, i have to say, i welcome what the national security team did this week. i think it's important for them to have done it, but you can't fight a war without your commander in chief, right? and they don't have the commander in chief on board. >> i'm going to play you a sound bite from former cia director leon panetta. he says he's very concerned about this, obviously. listen. >> i have never in my lifetime seen an administration that is presenting such a confused message when it comes to a
national security threat. and the fact is that it's sending a very mixed message to both our enemies and our allies that the united states does not have a clear policy when it comes to russia. >> so, he's sort of reconfirming there what we were just talking about, juliette. i was glad to hear these intel chiefs come out and very strongly say that this is not going to be tolerated. i didn't hear a whole lot of what's being done. so, what is being done? what do you know of what we're trying to do to prevent this russian meddling? >> okay, so, there's two pieces to what's being done. one is clearly -- the best sort of policy would be to have the russians stop doing what they're doing. so, to that extent, having the national security team essentially name and shame what's going on, expose what the russians are trying to do, because it's through that transparency that either the russians, you know, stop doing it, or people like us and law enforcement, intelligence
officials are aware of what the russians are doing. so, that's one way of doing it. so, that's sort of offense. the other way is, of course, defense. prepare ourselves for whatever might happen, in particular on the state and local level. this is the world i lived in at the department of homeland security. preparing the state and locals for whether it's the, you know, infiltration of the voting apparatus, disruptions to voting on the day of. that is also being addressed on the state and local level. there is support for them. but without a -- i would say without a leadership that is basically fighting this war every day -- i don't like using the war analogy, but we're under attack, right? there's no other way to put it. without the leadership, these efforts will not be as successful as they could be. we tend to believe, outside of this -- you know, people not inside this believe oh, well, there's not much we can do, we can't fight this.
that's just actually not true. france during their most recent election was able to combat some of the russian infiltration. germany was. there's techniques that can be used. we're not -- but that required their leadership, and that is not occurring here in the united states. >> juliette kayyem, as always, we appreciate the intelligent insight you bring. thank you. >> thank you. well, we're having some very candid conversations with the family of that missing university of iowa student. straight ahead, how a small community is keeping the focus of bringing her home and where that investigation stands now. ot finding a new apartment? yeah... but popping these things really helps me...relax. please don't, i'm saving those for later. at least you don't have to worry about renters insurance. just go to geico.com. geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. been doing it for years. that's really good to know. i'll check 'em out.
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describe mollie tibbetts. sadly, we can now add the word missing. >> it's just small town. smalltown, iowa, and this doest happen here. >> reporter: here is brooklyn, iowa, a small, sleepy town enveloped by rows of corn fields and stocked with people who all know each other and have become the foundation of a family -- >> it's a missing person. my sister, actually, is trying to spread the word as much as we can. >> reporter: -- just trying to hold it together as they fight to bring mollie home. >> when we're together, it's absolutely fine. it's when you're alone and you talk to mollie by yourself. >> reporter: laura talked about how she can feel mollie's presence. she feels her maybe sitting on her shoulder. do you have that same sense? >> we all do. when you're alone, you talk to mollie. and then you know why we're fighting. she's out there. we just feel it. >> reporter: do you ever feel
like you hear back from her? >> yeah. i did this morning, but i don't want to talk about it. >> reporter: on july 18th, mollie was dropped off at a boyfriend's house to dogsit while he was out of town, and then was later seen jogging. no one has seen her since, but neighbors dave and mary jo kallum say they used to see her all the time. >> she'd come down the road, and if i was over there working, you know, in my flowers, i'd, you know, she'd just wave and say hi, and off she'd go, because that's the house right down here. >> that's where her boyfriend -- >> that's where her boyfriend lives, yeah. >> right down there, that white house. it's just like this girl walking by. >> like this girl now. now i pay attention to what they have on, you know? she's got a headband, she's talking on her phone -- >> color of her shoes, color of her top, her shorts. >> because -- >> but before, we never would pay any attention, you know. we'd just glance and wave. >> reporter: they were some of the first volunteers who searched for mollie. >> we went to corn fields. >> the corn fields. >> and we walked corn fields
presence with me. you know, sometimes i just feel her sitting on my shoulder. >> just hang in there. just hang in there. we're fighting like hell. we've got a great law enforcement team. the community's all behind you. media's helping. the whole country's in love with you, pie! we'll find you. >> where does pie come from? >> we call her pie. i've called her pie since she was a baby. >> mollie's dad lives in california, and he told me that he's going to stay in iowa until authorities tell him that he is no longer a help. he is there, he says, for the long haul. and police are being very quiet about that investigation. we'll continue, of course, to follow it and let you know what we hear. houston police say the man wanted in the murder of a cardiologist who once treated former president george h.w. bush took his own life after being confronted by police. dr. mark hausknecht was killed
while riding his bike to work last month. according to police, a neighbor identified the suspect as joseph papis from surveillance video, and bullets found in his garage are the same as those recovered from the scene of the murder, according to authorities. authorities believe that he harbored a 20-year grudge against hausknecht after pappas' mother died on the doctor's operating table. las vegas police have closed their investigation into last year's deadly concert shooting without giving a motive. last year, stephen paddock, you'll remember, killed 58 people and injured hundreds more when he began shooting from the 32nd floor of the mandalay bay resort and casino. according to the 187-page report, paddock acted alone and there were no signs that he had links to any hate groups or terrorist organizations. investigators did find 14 bank accounts associated with the shooter, who was a high-stakes gambler. well, mike pompeo met north korea's foreign minister this morning. there were friendly smiles and
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we had a quick, polite exchange. our u.s. delegation also had an opportunity to deliver a reply to chairman kim's letter." >> but despite this, north korea is continuing to develop its nuclear and missile program, in violation of international sanctions. cnn senior international correspondent ivan watson is now live from singapore. good to see you, ivan. what did the north korean foreign minister say this morning? >> reporter: you know, we didn't hear him say anything, but there was this odd, you know, printed statement that was found in the press center on the sidelines of this gathering here that was a five-page statement from the north koreans. martin and christi, this is such a peculiar diplomatic dance here. you've got the top diplomats from the u.s. and north korea who are on the one hand being kind of very complimentary to each other and to the historic meeting that took place here in singapore a little bit less than two months ago between president
trump and north korean leader kim jong-un, but then they have some sharp words for each other, like mike pompeo coming here and saying that north korea's acting inconsistent with the commitments that kim made towards denuclearization and urging southeast asian nations to maintain diplomatic and economic pressure on north korea, going one step further, accusing russia of helping north korea evade united nations sanctions. take a listen. >> we have seen reports that russia is allowing for joint ventures with north korean firms and granting new work permits to north korean guest workers. if these reports prove accurate, and we have every reason to believe that they are, that would be in violation of u.n. security council resolution 2375. i want to remind every nation that has supported these resolutions that this is a serious issue and something that
we will discuss with moscow. >> reporter: now, there wasn't a formal bilateral meeting between pompeo and the north korean foreign minister, though pompeo went out of his way to shake hands with him during a group photo op. now, the north korean foreign minister put out this statement that had some pointed words of criticism for the u.s., accusing of it "raising its voice louder for maintaining sanctions against the dprk and showing the attitude to retreat even from declaring the end of war, a very basic and primary step for providing peace on the korean peninsula," also accusing the u.s. of trying to convince other countries not to send high-level delegations to an anniversary celebration in north korea in september. so, again, a very odd diplomatic dance by these two top diplomats. >> yeah, very strange indeed. ivan watson, we appreciate it
greatly. thanks. >> thank you, ivan. ohio state's head football coach is back-tracking now regarding his statements about a fired assistant accused of domestic abuse. coy wire, what's going on? >> good morning to you, christi. first, urban meyer said he didn't know about an alleged incident involving his former assistant. now he says he did. what did he know and why was he misleading? that's coming up on "new day." this is not a bed. it's a high-tech revolution in sleep. the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. and snoring? how smart is that? smarter sleep. to help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the patience of a saint. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999. smarter sleep will change your life. where in all of this is the stuff that matters?
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involving his former assistant coach, zach smith, and smith's ex-wife, courtney. here meyer was denying knowledge of this incident. >> i got a text late last night that something happened in 2015, and there was nothing, unless, once again, there's nothing -- once again, i don't know who creates a story like that. >> but late friday, meyer, who is now on paid leave, released a nearly 500-word statement, saying he did report the 2015 incident, following proper protocols, and he apologized for being misleading, saying in part, "my words, whether in a reply to a reporter's question, or in addressing a personal issue, must be clear, compassionate, and most of all, completely accurate. unfortunately, at big ten media days on july 24th, i failed on many of these fronts." meyer said he wasn't prepared to discuss sensitive, personal issues regarding smith, who he had fired just one day prior to big ten media days after smith was served a protection order on behalf of his ex-wife. zach smith told espn he thinks
meyer handled the 2015 incident properly. >> he found out the facts he needed to find out as the head coach of ohio state and as my direct boss, and he needed to make decisions based on those facts. i don't think it was his job to investigate, to ask questions, to talk to her, talk to -- he only had to talk to me to make sure, because he already got the other side of the story from the incident report, and so he wanted to know what really happened from me, and then he let the police do their job. coming from somebody who knows -- i was in all the meetings. i know exactly what he did. if he loses his job, it's flat wrong, and this is the guy who fired me. >> ohio state university has formed a six-person committee to investigate meyer's handling of the alleged incident from 2015. we will stay on top of that story for you. now, let's switch gears and bring you an inspiring story of determination and perseverance from the sports world. that's steelers linebacker ryan shazier walking around under his own power at training camp. remember, less than a year ago,
he suffered a serious spinal injury during a game, leaving him unable to walk. he says his dream is to get back out on that field and play in the nfl again some day. he's tweeting out, asking everyone to keep shalieving. ryan, we wish you the best on your journey back. >> no doubt. coy, thank you. >> you're welcome. >> thanks, coy. just ahead, the tsa looking to save money by cutting out crucial security measures. details of why the cuts are coming at the expense of maybe your safety. so what do you guys want? pistachio. chocolate chip. rocky road. i see what's going on here. everybody's got different taste. well, now verizon lets you mix and match your family unlimited plans so everybody gets the plan they want, without paying for things they don't. jet-setting moms can video-chat from europe. movie-obsessed teens can stream obscure cinema. it's like everyone gets their own flavor of unlimited. (chuckles) it's a metaphor. simile, not a metaphor. hm. well played. (vo) one family. different unlimited plans.
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the new internal document obtained by cnn shows the tsa could save more than $300 million under these measures. >> which might make you think what else would get cut under the proposal. cnn aviation and government regulation correspondent rene marsh has more. >> reporter: a new internal tsa document cnn exclusively obtained shows the proposal to eliminate screening at more than 150 small to medium-size airports is just one of several cost-saving measures the agency is discussing. a senior tsa employee tells cnn the agency is looking at cuts that could save more than $300 million in 2020. one cut -- reducing the number of air marshals, eliminating screening at small airports, staffing cuts at tsa headquarters, and changes to benefits are also being discussed. tsa did not comment. juliette kayyem, a former official with department of homeland security under obama, is concerned. >> ending security at certain
airports, ending or flatlining the air marshal service are actually inconsistent, because if you're going to decrease security at certain airports, what you would want to do is increase the presence of air marshals or other security features just in case. >> reporter: cnn revealed the most controversial cut, eliminating screening at small airports like this one in redding, california, where bryant garrett is the manager. >> since i as the airport don't want to take on that, either the liability nor the cost, and i'm quite certain the airlines don't want to take that on. so, if tsa backs out, there's a void, and i don't know who would fill it. >> ladies and gentlemen, we are the police. remain calm. >> reporter: air marshals are the last line of defense, armed agents aboard planes to prevent hijackings. critics have questioned its effectiveness, but the tsa has defended the program as a deterrent. while agencies discuss where they can trim all the time, the big question that congress and
likely the american public is asking and would like explained is whether these cuts are being considered because the threat and risk to aviation has changed, or is this just an indication that the agency is under extreme pressure to cut costs? rene marsh, cnn, washington. >> and back with us, cnn national security analyst and former assistant secretary for the department of homeland security, juliette kayyem. thank you for sticking around. gauge for us, if you would, please, what kind of danger this does or does not put the public in. >> so, i want to just put this in perspective. look, agencies, including security agencies, are constantly reassessing their budgets and their priorities. budgets are just -- you know, money is just a way of reflecting what the policy should be. so, there's nothing surprising about tsa saying we want to cut here and not cut here. what's surprising is that these cuts are being made without any changes, at least from the public's perspective, and certainly congress' perspective,
to whether there is a threat reduction, whether there is a risk reduction, and whether those changes, in particular at these smaller airports, will be filled by alternatives or whether we're just going to leave a gap. so, that i think is the sort of pressing question right now, is, is this just tsa just saying, look, we need to save money, we're cutting across the board, or is this actually in response to, one would hope, changes in the risk assessment or the threat assessment. and right now we can't answer that question. >> all right. i think a lot of people are sitting home and thinking, wait a minute, i pay taxes every time i buy a plane ticket. you know, part of the fees go to security, and they're proposing decreasing security now. you can't imagine that the flights are going to take those fees away. >> no, not at all. i mean, that's exactly right. it's a good point to say this is actually our money, right, that is going to support what are the layer defenses at any airport. so, what tsa will say is, look,
if we take the air marshals or flatline the air marshals or end security at these smaller airports, there will be other features to compensate for it. i am not so sure about that. i mean, these smaller airports, to say that we're going to go from, you know, security to no security is a big leap. and what people like me prefer is not to view security as an on-off switch, you either have it or you don't. you actually can think of a variety of policies or options available that might increase or decrease the security, but from going from security to no security seems like a big jump, especially in light of the fact that for the last, you know, couple years, there has been sort of no discussion in the changes of the threat environment vis-a-vis airline security, which is just, just given the nature of 9/11, is just a different beast from security purposes that we've always focused on airline and aviation security, rightfully so, because the consequences are so great.
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