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Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Week In Parliament 20201009

the week in parliament. hello, and welcome to the week in parliament. a week when borisjohnson faces mutiny in the ranks. if lockdown measures are the answer, why aren't they working? the worst in society is the government enjoying its powers a little bit too much. labour say there is one man to blame. the prime minister ignores the warning signs, hurtles towards a car crash, then looks in the rear mirror and says, "what's all that about?" also in this programme, mps reflect on the harrowing consequences of gang violence. in the last two months alone, i've had to speak to three inconsolable mothers who've lost their children as a result of knife crime. but first... some parts of england face more restrictions to suppress coronavirus. we could hear more details as soon as monday but ministers are facing anger from conservative mps over the existing rules. more than a dozen tory mps rebelled in a retrospective vote on the rule of six limit on gatherings. and spoke out against the 10pm early closing time for pubs and restaurants. the health minister helen whatley endured an uncomfortable time as she tried to explain the thinking behind that limit on gatherings. this virus spreads through social contact, so we are having to take difficult decisions to suppress the virus whilst allowing people to socialise safely. the regulations we are debating today brought previous guidance into law whilst tightening and simplifying it. the rule of six means that people can now only gather in groups of six both indoors and outdoors. there are exceptions to this refer households or support bubbles that are larger than six as well as for areas including work, schools, weddings, and organised sports activities. outside england, children aren't included in the rule of six. what is the rationale for children under the age of those that would have to wear masks being included in the rule of six? the rationale, not the fact that it's happening. what is the rationale? my honourable friend asked specifically the question about children. the position on this is that as i have said, a clear steer the need for guidance to be simple and absolutely clear for everybody. the tory rebels included some unlikely figures. and these rules are a massive intrusion into the liberty and private lives of the whole british people, and they are having a devastating economic effect as well which will result in big job losses and masses of business failures. labour mps did not take part in the vote but complained about the regulations being signed into law with no parliamentary scrutiny. how can we expect anyone to possibly adhere to the minutia of these regulations if they only appeared for the first time a quarter of an hour before they become law? at a quarter to midnight on a sunday evening, how would policeman be expected to be enforcing that? are they supposed to google the regulations while they're walking around on their beat? with labour abstaining, the regulations were approved overwhelmingly but ministers faced criticism in the lords, too. two ministers have suggested that people should inform on their neighbours. well, it's one thing to report on your neighbour if you see he is building a bomb factory. if he's holding a barbecue for seven people, are you really going to report him? my lords, i deplore any suggestion that we should become a nation of informers like the old east germany. where there was love, it puts in space. and that, my lords, is something i cannot apologise for. i cannot change it, i cannot find some form of words that transforms that simple fact or in any way changes the grim realities of how we have to limit the transmission of this disease. lord bethell described the debate as like an elastic band being pulled as tight as it could go but he said that during the summer, the public had massively relaxed their behaviour. the arguments continued as mps went on to debate the rules in parts of the north of england, including a ban on social mixing indoors between people from different households. one conservative said the government was enjoying its new powers a little bit too much. day by day we see those liberties and freedoms being given away back to the government in the name of covid. i'm afraid that has to stop. because once we give these up, they will not come back to us, the government will not return them to us. tory mps kept up the pressure. will he ensure that the minister focuses rigorously on the key question? namely, if lockdown measures are the answer, why aren't they working? the lockdown measures have been implemented to try and stop the spread of the disease. a disease that is communicated by people meeting is bound to be reduced in its circulation if people meet less, and we saw that with the first lockdown that it stopped people meeting and therefore, the numbers affected by the disease declined. jacob rees—mogg. so, could england follow where scotland leads? at holyrood, the first minister nicola sturgeon announced that all licenced premises across scotland's central belt, including glasgow and edinburgh, would be closed for 16 days. pubs and restaurants will be able to open in other parts of scotland until 6pm but can only serve alcohol outdoors. the restrictions will be in place until the 25th of october. she's earmarked £40 million to help those affected. none of this is easy. i am acutely aware that in every decision we take, lives and jobs are at stake and i want to assure notjust the chamber but the country that none of these decisions are ta ken lightly. she said she wasn't announcing a lockdown but a far more targeted approach. the reason we are not closing indoor hospitality completely is that we know the benefits in terms of reducing loneliness and isolation of giving people, particularly those who live alone, somewhere they can meet a friend for a coffee and a chat. these new restrictions are intended to last for 16 days. they are intended to be short, sharp action to arrest a worrying increase in infection. although they are temporary, though, they are immediate. without them, there is a very real risk presiding over us that the virus will run out of control by the end of this month. we need to acknowledge that the first minister's announcement today is putting further massive restrictions on people's lives and livelihoods. in the weeks ahead, the whole country will be in the firing line but perhaps no more so than scotland's hospitality sector. like other small businesses, they are looking to the first minister for a clear statement of what support they can expect. we've had the headline figure today but we don't have what small businesses really need — the details. and they can't afford to wait. many are running on empty. all reserves are gone. the first minister said the hospitality sector would be consulted on the best way to help them, but labour suggested keeping some venues open. the scottish hospitality sector is not sodom and gomorrah and should not be treated as such. why doesn't the first minister consider closing down those businesses which are not complying with guidance instead of shutting down every single business serving 70% of the population including those which are fully compliant? because of some of the characteristics of hospitality — sometimes poor ventilation, places where people particularly with alcohol are mixing more and not maintaining physical distancing — even where premises are making a significant effort to comply with all of the regulations as the vast majority are, these are higher—risk settings in terms of the virus transmitting. nicola sturgeon speaking on a day it emerged that she'd forgotten about a meeting where she was first told about harassment allegations against her predecessor, alex hammond. in a busy day at holyrood, the scottish government also announced that next year's national five exams for i6—year—olds will be replaced by coursework and teacher assessment. back at westminster, boris johnson faced calls to publish a scientific evidence behind the 10pm early closing time that has upset so many of his mps. the labour leader said he should review the rule if he cannot do so. sir keir starmer also challenged the prime minister over a computer error that saw 16,000 positive coronavirus cases missed, a mistake he said that "put lives at risk". if this was an isolated example, i think the british people might understand. but there's a pattern here on care homes, protective equipment, exams, testing. the prime minister ignores the warning signs, hurtles towards a car crash then looks in the rear mirror and says, "what's all that about?" it's quite literally government in hindsight. he said borisjohnson had imposed local restrictions in some areas, but infections had continued to rise. the prime minister defended his government's actions and attacked labour's position. what we are doing is a combination of national and local measures which one week, mr speaker, he comes to this house and supports. and the next week mysteriously, he decides to whisk his support away. and he cannot even be bothered to mobilise his own benches to support something as fundamental as the rule of six which he himself said only three weeks ago that he supported. he cannot continue to have it both ways. does he support the rule of six , yes or no? yes. shouting. but the government... shouting. yes. but if the prime minister can't see and hear local communities when they say the infection rate has gone up tenfold under restrictions and he doesn't realise that's a problem, then that is part of the problem. mr speaker, there is a further cause of anger. prime minister, if you actually listen to the question, we might get on better. shouting. there is further cause of anger. lack of clarity about why particular restrictions have been introduced. for example, in the prime minister's own local authority hillingdon, today there are 62 cases per 100,000 yet no local restrictions. but in 20 local areas across england, restrictions were imposed where infection rates were much lower. in kirklees, it was just 29 per 100,000. local communities, prime minister, genuinely don't understand these differences. i wish i could pretend mr speaker that everything was going to be rosy in the midlands or indeed in london, mr speaker, where alas we are also seeing infections rise and that's why we need a concerted national effort. we need to follow the guidance. we need hands, face, space, get a test if you have symptoms, and obey the rule of six, mr speaker. and i think it quite extraordinary that the right honourable gentleman has just said that he personally supports the rule of six while allowing his entire party to abstain! next week, this house will vote on whether to approve the 10pm rule. the prime minister knows that there are deeply held views across the country in different ways on this. one question is now screaming out. is there a scientific basis for the 10pm rule? the public deserve to know. parliament deserves to know. if there is, why doesn't the government do itself a favour and publish it? the basis on which we set out the curtailment of hospitality was the basis on which he accepted it two weeks ago! and that is to reduce the spread of the virus, mr speaker. and that is our objective. that's why we introduced the rule of six, mr speaker. which again he supported only two weeks ago and yet, last night, they abstained — and today they're withdrawing their support for other restrictions. what kind of a signal, mr speaker, does this send to the people of the country about the robustness of the labour party and their willingness to enforce the restrictions? mr speaker, that's not new leadership. that's no leadership. and that vote on early closing is now expected on tuesday. as the pandemic continues, so does the economic cost with the current furlough scheme ending this month. support for the self—employed has been less generous. hundreds of freelance musicians played in parliament square to highlight the impact of the crisis on their industry. ministers pointed out they have announced a package worth £1.6 million for the arts — although that is largely being distributed to museums, galleries, and venues rather than individuals. at the start of the pandemic the government increased universal credit by £20 a week for a year. but what happens then? at prime minister's questions, the snp's westminster leader said it should be made permanent. thejoseph rowntree foundation have painted a very clear picture for his government. strip the £20 universal credit away and 700,000 more people, including 300,000 children, could move into poverty. the prime minister has an opportunity here and now. will he do the right thing? will he answer the question and make the £20 uplift permanent? what i can tell him on universal credit is that we're putting another £1.7 billion into universal credit by 2023-2024. and if that doesn't give him the answer that he wants, then he can ask me again next week. but we will continue to support people, families across this country. in wales, which has a labour government, members of the senedd approved local lockdowns — although the welsh conservatives opposed countywide restrictions. the welsh government said it was considering forcing visitors from covid hotspots elsewhere in the uk to quarantine. borisjohnson has rejected calls for a travel ban. the issue was raised during first minister's questions in the senedd. we've called for action consistently on this issue in the senedd. can you say whether and when you intend to take action yourselves independently as government? and in addition to looking at introduction of quarantine as a solution, is consideration being given to making non—essential travel and to wales from a lockdown area is illegal and subject to enforcement by the police? for that, i thank adam price. i share his sense of disappointment at the prime minister's apparent conclusion and i say apparent because although he gave an interview which he opined on this matter, he has yet to apply to my letter to him of monday last week and i think that is deeply disrespectful, not to me, but to the senedd and to people here in wales. what i asked for in my letter was not a border solution, it was a solution that would've prevented people living in hotspot areas in england from travelling to other places where the virus was not in the same place, whether that was england or scotland or in wales. mark drakeford, and if want to know what the current restrictions are on your part of the world — it can be a challenge to keep up — you can go to the bbc news website... ..and enter your postcode. well, time now for some other news in brief. the security minister has denied that undercover agents are being given a licence to kill with new legislation. the government hopes the covert human intelligence sources criminal conduct bill will protect agents from prosecution if they're forced to break the law. for example, to stop a terror plot. i know there are concerns about the somehow providing a licence to kill, to commit torture. let me be clear, that there are upper limits to the activity that we authorised in this bill and these are contained in the human rights act. this includes the right to life, prohibition of torture, or subject to inhumane degrading treatment or punishment. it is unlawful for any public authority to act in a way that is incompatible with the european convention of human rights. labour supports the bill. the activity here is not new activity, and it's been going on under existing practices and has been for many years. it should be on the statutory footing, it allows the necessary and robust safeguards that we will be pressing for. more than three years after the grenfell tower fire, the housing secretary has been accused by a conservative mp of a shocking betrayal of people who are unable to sell their homes due to cladding on the building. 72 people died in the grenfell fire in west london, with the flames able to spread quickly due to flammable cladding. the government has set up a fund to replace dangerous cladding on some high—rise buildings in england, but it has yet to pay out. the secretary of state is overseeing a shocking betrayal of millions of people trapped in flights they cannot settle because of the cladding, irrespective of the height. mortgage companies are refusing to remortgage, shared ownership tenants that only owe 10% are being forced to pay hundred percent of the cost, when is the secretary of state going to get out of his ivory tower, stop talking and start actually helping our constituents? well, i don't agree with that analysis of the actions that we have taken as a government. we are bringing forth the biggest change to building safety regulation of this generation. we've outline plans of £1.6 billion fund, of course there is more that we can do. this one the most challenging and difficult issues faced by the government today or indeed any government built over many generations but we intend to tackle it and provide support for those in need. drivers aged between 17 and 2a hold 7% of uk driving licenses that are involved in 20% of fatal and serious collisions. mps on the transport committee have been looking at why that is. and what can be done about it. they spoke to insurers. young drivers are causing catastrophic injuries and having severe crashes because of a lack of experience and a sense of recklessness i suppose and bravado. from being young and inexperienced and not having that time to understanding and the dangers of when they do that. the cricketing legend was taking his seat in the house of lords is across bench or independent peer. he took the oath and the new socially distant cut down introduction ceremony which has been in operation since the march lockdown. i, ian lord bolton do swear prithee by god, true allegiance to her majesty in accordance with her and her successors according to the law, so help me god. lord bolton, swapping one lord for another. it has been described as possibly the largest miscarriage of justice in our history. problems with an it system led to hundreds of postmasters being unjustly accused of fraud, many were prosecuted or bankru pted and some were jailed. the post office will not contest appeals against convictions in 44 cases, which means they're extremely likely to be quashed. the government asked the retired high courtjudge sir williams, to gather evidence into the horizon system to see if lessons have been learned. some mps fear that inquiry could be a whitewash, although the post office decision has been welcomed, up to a point. but it actually belies, the agony and the torment which has gone on for these individuals and hundreds of other individuals who have lost their livelihoods, lost their good names and in some cases, lost their freedom. in other cases, people have lost their lives. and i'm sorry, minister, but what you have said today is not good enough. the — the decision to prosecute postmasters was an operational matter for the post office and government is not involved in the operational decisions. but in hindsight, knowing what we know now, it is clear that difficult conclusions could and should have been reached by the post office, and that is why the inquiry is there to work out those lessons. how did a respectable organisation like the post office and a major software company like fujitsu and the great and the good of the civil service and ministers from all parties fall prey to groupthink on such a grand scale that despite this computer error occurring across the country, it was assumed the only possible explanation was that all sub—postmasters effected were dishonest? this is being reviewed in scotland and in the rest of the uk should result in financial compensation for all of those innocent people who suffered as a result of this scandal. i welcome the establishment of the inquiry. but can the minister assure us that this is not going to be a whitewash. many sub—postmasters in my constituency are very anxious to know that. the truth is, the ministers of set up a half—baked inquiry in response to this extraordinary scandal. without the powers to fully get to the bottom of this mess. can the minister tell us why, as their only shareholder the government allowed the post office to continue to oppose the appeals for so long? what happened when, whether the government had the boards' appointee, as well as the post office will come up and that independent inquiry and it is right that they are questioned so that we do find out what happened and when. the business minister who was left in no doubt, about the anger of the mps. westminster hall is back in action after a covid—19 break. it allows mps to raise issues that sometimes do not get an airing in the main commons chamber, such as the plight of girls and young women caught up in gang violence. in the last two months alone, i have had to speak to three inconsolable mothers who've lost their children as a result of knife crime. these children were murdered by their peers. and as a mother to two young children myself, this is not something i can live with, ignore, or accept. we need to look at targeted interventions to help the girls who have been exploited, groomed and abused. we need to continue to raise awareness with the authorities around the use of girls and county lines and of the gang—related activities. and we need the policy—makers to change the language they use in highlighting this issue. but most importantly, we need to continue to listen to these young women and girls. and listen to what they're telling us. i want to reassure colleagues that tackling serious violence and the exploitation of girls and women is an absolute priority for this government. we have invested £19 million this year alone to provide extra police resources to drive down the scale of violent crime that we are seeing on our streets to fund violence reduction units in the 18 forest areas that are most affected by crime and violence and fund specialist county line operations. we have also spent over £200 million on early intervention to ensure that those most at risk are given the opportunity to turn away from violence and lead positive and safe lives. victoria atkins. mps have been strongly advised to wear face coverings while moving around parliament and voting in division lobbies. the speaker lindsay hoyle, led the way on his daily procession in the commons chamber on wednesday. but mps do not have to wear masks in the chamber itself, which means we will continue to see the speaker's double act with a conservative mp who speaks via video link and very aeronautical headsets. we are now heading to bob blackman, who's about to land his question. bob blackman. thank you, mr speaker. flight officer blackman, cleared to land. thank you, ground control. let's head up to blackman to glide his question in. thank you, ground control. as we are stacking, we are now going straight to bob blackman. thank you, ground control. sir lindsay hoyle. or, ground control, as he's known in harrow. thank you for travelling with the week in parliament, we know you have a choice of programmes. for me, it is over and out, and have a good onward journey. hello there. when the sun came out yesterday, we saw 19 celsius, temperatures above where they should be. and they have been for much of the week. but we will swing now to feeling colder for the next few days, probably with temperatures dipping a little bit below where they should be. we will still see some sunshine like we saw on thursday between the showers, this was the rain that moved away, the showers came in, but this next little area of low pressure comes in, giving some quite heavy rain actually through the night as it crosses scotland, northern ireland into the northern half of england and wales. you can see the wraparound here, the area of low pressure, a brisk north—westerly bringing heavy showers, frequent showers following that rain. so, as we go through the day, there will be early brightness in the south and east, but the rain will eventually reach here by lunchtime. still some heavy rain upon that weather front and we still have that wraparound left around the area of low pressure and rain in the north—east of scotland, northern isles and elsewhere, sunny spells and showers. quite a brisk breeze, gusty near those showers, and temperatures will be down, it is colder air, so we will do well to reach about 13—14 in the south, more like eight to 10 degrees in the north. some of these showers could be heavy with hail and thunder. they will continue through the night into saturday morning as well with further bands of showers going southwards, but the air is colder, so where we see the clear spells, it will turn quite chilly as temperatures fall fairly close to freezing in the glens of scotland. so, it's because we have this cold air mass coming down on that north—westerly breeze. but again, we have high pressure to the west and that will tend to start to see the showers easing away through the second half of the weekend, but we're going to keep a close eye on this area of low pressure, as always it's going to include the risk of showers or even into next week some longer spells of rain, but for saturday, bands of showers will make their way southwards on that north—north—westerly airstream, probably more showers in northern and western areas, but they could at times fall further east and again, temperatures as on friday, well down, except in shelter. 13 or 1a if you shelter from that northerly breeze. and that wind is still with us on sunday, but probably lighter, the high pressure starting to build in from the west, probably fewershowers, but again, always going to be more of a chance near the low pressure in the north sea, so closer to the eastern parts of england and wales. so, into next week, some uncertainty on where that area of low pressure is going to go. as ever, we will keep you updated. welcome to bbc news, i'm lewis vaughan jones. our top stories: back to work. donald trump's doctor says he has completed his course of treatment and could return to public engagements from saturday. in michigan, the fbi arrests six men in an alleged plot to kidnap the state's governor, gretchen whitmer. more fighting and more deaths in the disputed region of nagorno—karabakh, but peace talks are imminent. and the acclaimed us poet louise gluck wins

Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20201009

now on bbc news, it's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. prime minister narendra modi's dominance of indian politics is unquestioned. his ability to deliver competent government in a crisis... well, that's less certain. india now has the second highest official number of covid infections in the world. the realfigure is thought to be up to ten times higher. the economy's in big trouble, too. my guest is a national spokesman for the ruling bjp, narendra taneja. maybe mr modi's populist strongman act is about to come unstuck. narendra taneja in delhi, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. thank you very much. thanks for having me. it's a pleasure. mr taneja, would you accept that over the past seven months, the modi government's attempts to control the coronavirus pandemic in your country have not succeeded? not succeeded? oh, well, i think if you look at our record in terms of, you know, coronavirus patients per million, and at the same time, overall numbers — right now as we speak, the number of cases, active cases of coronavirus, active cases in india is about 960,000. that's less than a million in a country of 1.36 billion people. so, i don't know what basis... you know, you're saying it's not successful — if you look across the country and look at the economic, social, cultural life of the country, it's life almost back to, more or less back to normal. economic activities are back to normal. and you have to go by the core numbers given by, you know, doctors and scientists. the numbers, total number of cases, a little over six million, but active cases, actually less than one million. so, it depends how you want to look at it. the way i look at it, i think, it's a very good record on the part of both the federal government of india and also various state governments, because health is a serious subject in india under the constitution, as you know. yeah. mr taneja, i think you have a reputation in india as being a bit of a technocrat. you just said to me, "you have to go with the numbers, follow the numbers. " isn't the fundamental problem in india that you have a health care system where the numbers are simply utterly unreliable? are i think it's a very serious statement and i refuse to accept it. i think when it comes to numbers, you see when it comes to coronavirus, you can't hide it. wherever you are in the country, whether you are in a village... well... ..small town, a big city like delhi, you can't hide it. exactly. you cannot hide it. you have to go to the doctors. you can't hide it. and there is... let me stop you there. we are using technology... let me stop you there. let me put to you something which suggests there is a profound problem with india's numbers. the indian council of medical research conducted an in—depth survey of 29,000 people across 700 villages, town and city wards. they found in this very detailed survey that one in 15 people above the age of ten had antibodies for the coronavirus. now, if that were mirrored, that kind of detailed, deep, deep—dive survey were mirrored across the country, that would mean that your total number of infections wasn't the six million which your government officially recognises, but would actually be over 60 million. that's the truth in the numbers. no, no, no. you want to call it a deep dive. it's not a deep dive in a country of 1.36 billion. you surveyed 30,000 people or even 50,000 people — i wouldn't call it a deep dive. that's not what i was taught in my school. you know, the point here is that we have to go by numbers. we are using technology and we are very good when it comes to technology, using technology for these things. based on technology, based on data available at the headquarters of the indian government, number is what i shared with you and of course there are independent agencies, they want to come out with their own numbers. it's up to you whether you want to buy them or not. i certainly don't. most scientists don't. .. no, no, no. most doctors don't. no. mr taneja, it's not up to me whether i buy them or not. it's again, it's about statistics and understanding statistics. do you happen to know how many people per 100,000 in india are actually being tested for the virus per day? do you happen to know that figure? listen, you... you can't test every single indian. 1.36 billion. no, answer the question. there are certain... you're the national spokesman for the bjp. i'm answering that... how many people per 100,000 on average are being tested for the virus per day? listen, listen. i know where you basically want to, you know, your point, i understand that. but the point here is that, you see, there are certain regions and zones, total number is about ten, that's where we are focusing. and we have done the surveys there, including the surveys you are referring to. also, the area where therefore we don't see any reason to go, and go off on any deep dive in terms of surveys. we know those areas. no, no... that's being done very scientifically... mr taneja, you're misunderstanding me. i'm not talking about... that's being done very scientifically. i'm not talking about surveys any more. that's the figure... i'm talking about your people, the indian people, getting tested for coronavirus. let me give you the answer. no, no, no. it'sjust over 80... no, no. just over 80 per 100,000. the figure in the united states is nearly 300. in the uk, it's over 300. let me answer. unless you do the testing, unless you do the testing, you have no idea how prevalent the virus is in your national population. let me... let me answer it. we have done the testing. in some places, we are going for a kind of intense testing. in some areas, we have done testing in a slightly different way but we have got overall reserves because if in a community, or in a society or in a condominium or in a village, there are some cases, we immediately go for, you know, the intense testing in those areas. and that leads to the conclusion. 0verall, you see what we are precisely trying to do is that... don't compare with the united states. that's a different political system, that's a different society, it's a developed country. in our country, we have got... we know precisely where to go because when it comes to these tests, these are... these are expensive tests. at the same time, the government's made it clear money's not the problem. wherever necessary we're going and doing the testing and the data i shared with you, number of active cases about 960,000 today. this is the scientific figures. the exact numbers. numbers being given by other people, it's up to you whether you want to buy them. i don't. alright. do you think the indian people have been impressed with the strategy pursued by the modi government? we think of your draconian lockdown in march and now, in september, where we've seen thousands of new infections across your country, we see your government easing all restrictions across the board and saying that the economy must be a priority. do you think the indian people regard your strategy over seven months as coherent? 0h, absolutely they do. that's precisely because in a democracy, unless you have the support of the people, i mean, you can't really move ahead. we have the support of the people. you're calling it draconian. it's up to you. the point is, at that given time, at that given particular moment, this was the best alternative. that was taken, the decision was taken in the best interests of the health of the people. at that time the most important thing was to protect the health of every single indian. and that's precisely what we did. we put everything, you know, every other consideration, you know, at the moment, on the other side, and we decided to focus on only one thing. now, we are protecting their health — at the same time we are also protecting their economy, economy of every single individual. you can understand this is pandemic time. it's not that easy. and we are an emerging economy. we are not switzerland or the united states, there are constraints and there are challenges. but given the constraints and the challenges, i think what we have managed to do, we have the full support and we're getting a thumbs up from the ordinary people of the country... nobody would... precisely for what we have managed to do. mr taneja, nobody would say this is easy. and we've seen governments grappling with this around the world. i do appreciate that. but in india, is it fair to say that you have decided to prioritise the economy, and that in the end, coronavirus will run through india until your population has some sort of herd immunity? is that what it's going to be? no, no, no, no, no. you see, what we have prioritised is not the economy. the people and their wellbeing, overall wellbeing — their health, their economy at the same time. so that's what the priority... priority is still the people of the country, the most important, but at the same time, they need money. they want to be... you know, they want to run their kitchen. they have theirjobs to protect, so on and so forth. so that's the kind of... that's the kind of approach that the government is following. it's a very holistic approach, on the one hand, making sure they're taking care of their health — at the same time they're taking care of their economic wellbeing. well... that's how it works. and the results are fantastic. you have to talk to the ordinary people. talk to the ordinary people on the ground in the country. and then you will get to know the exact picture. well, the results... people are satisfied with the efforts being put in by the government. the results are... and also by various state governments. the results, you say, are fantastic. i doubt that feeling is shared by the more than 100 million indians who've lost theirjobs as a result of the economic crisis over the last few months. and ijust wonder what indians make of this one simple fact — china, which is often compared to india in terms of economic management, china has restored growth and in fact, are the imf predicts that china will deliver overall growth for this year, 2020, of roughly 1.2%. now, it looks, according to moody's and others, that india, after a total economic meltdown in april and may, will see an overall contraction for this financial year of over 11%. why the difference? well, good question. first of all, i'm surprised that coming from bbc, sitting in london, you know, you are comparing india with china. you're comparing a democracy, a very vibrant democracy where everything is transparent, including data, with a dictatorship. you are quoting this figure. i don't buy these figures about china. you may. china is... we don't know about figures and data that comes out of china. we don't know what exactly the situation there. we all know the virus came from, travelled from china, you know, from china to europe, from europe to india. that's how it travelled. the other questions — what they've done, where the virus came from, what is happening inside china? what is happening with the economy? what's happening in the economy of the ordinary chinese? we don't know. you seem to buy everything that china, the chinese government, say, which is an authoritarian government. i don't. i'm very proud of democracy. we might have our own challenges, so on and so forth, but this is... therefore, i will not compare, i will not compare a democratic society with an authoritarian society like china. you've carefully avoided... you want to do that, please do that. you've carefully avoided addressing what india has done wrong. no, i can answer that also. what india... i can answer that. hang on. what india has done wrong... i can answer that. because according to the world bank report that was issued injuly, because of the impact of covid—19 on your economy, around half — half of your population is, quote, "at risk of slipping back into poverty due to income and job losses." that's extraordinary, isn't it? this figure... don't buy this figure. i don't buy this figure. it's bogus. let me tell you one thing. the figure you're quoting in terms of contraction, you're quoting the figures of month of april, may and june. that was a time when we imposed lockdown. yes, that... that means the government basically decided to shut down. i didn't even quote that figure. no... but our audience might be interested to know that that contraction, april tojune, was roughly 24%. 2496. yes, that's. .. and you're telling me that your performance has been spectacular, it's been an enormous success? it is...when i say enormous success, challenges are there for everybody to see. but when i said this figure, we took the decision and that's why the contraction figure was what it was, because everything we had, we decided to shut down. now that things are getting back to normal, let me share with you, look at power consumption, a very important indicator. power consumption is back to normal, 100% the same figure. you know, which means industries have opened. the same goes for consumption of fuel. the same goes for, you know, consumption of so many other things. when you look at the pictures, now that we decided to open up, things are more or less getting back to normal. and you will see by end of this year, that is by christmastime, that economic life in india is going to be back to normal, almost. which means the figure you are quoting, then you can compare with china and so on, because we took the decision in the best interests of the people, because we have many challenges. we are a very vast country. the number of people who live in india is more than the total population of africa. so we know our country very well. we took the decision in the best interest of the people. there is no other country that you can compare with india... problem is... ..because our challenges, our constraints, our challenges and constraints are so unique to our country. the problem is... so you can't compare. yeah. problem is, mr taneja, that your sort of boss, the prime minister, narendra modi, has totally built his image in the country around delivering, quote unquote, "the new india", a newly prosperous, efficient india, which he says will be a $5 trillion economy within, i think, three orfour years and a $10 trillion economy soon after that. all of that has gone. well, your view. you know, when we took over power in 2014, 67% indians didn't have bank account. now every single indian has got bank account. majority of people didn't have toilet. every indian household has a toilet now. majority of people didn't have access to clean fuel. today, every single household has access to clean fuel. many thousands of villages had no electricity. every single village has gotten... you think that this is not india, sitting in london, up to you, sitting in new delhi and knowing my country very well, this is new india. we are in the process of making new india. it is all there for you to see. i invite you to come to delhi. i'll personally take you and show you the new india and you'll be surprised. i thank you for that, and i look forward to it, not least because some of the things you've just mentioned, like the tens of millions of new toilets, which is a very serious commitment... bank account... ..and a commitment which mr modi seems to have delivered on. the problem is that many of those toilets are simply not working cos your water infrastructure is so poor. but let us not get stuck on that particular detail. i am interested to hear you say that overall, you think the indian people are very, very pleased with your government's performance. if that's the case, why is mr modi and your government so keen to repress all signs of criticism? repress? oh, come on. you see the most influential newspaper in delhi, where i'm sitting, is called the hindustan times. please open the hindustan times of today, of yesterday, the day before yesterday, last month, a year before. they are very critical of our government and they are the main newspaper in delhi. the telegraph, the most influential daily newspaper of kolkata, please open the telegraph of today, e—paper, show it to your viewers. yeah, i'm...|‘m... criticising the government 2a by seven. there is no... there is... in our constitution, the press freedom and, you know, liberty, these things are guaranteed by the constitution. well, that's an interesting... and we... the constitution is our bible. that's our bible. yeah, well... for our country, the constitution is our bible, it's our bhagavad gita, it's our koran. well, i don't know what your commitment to your bible is, but at least 55 journalists have been imprisoned, forgive me, not imprisoned, but have had official investigations opened up into them and their work since march. you've passed new legislation ensuring that every critical article has to then include a description of what the official government position is on every issue covered. you have also, if you look across the piece, you've closed down the amnesty international operations inside your own country, when they have been one of the most persistent critics of your human rights record. let me... if you are a government that is confident of your record, why are you doing these things? let me answer. you see, first of all... i mean, first of all, amnesty, they decided to close down the office. your report is wrong. your facts are wrong. please correct your facts. the government of india didn't ask them to shut down the office, they decided to close down the office. if... there is a huge difference between the two. if your bank accounts are frozen... number two... ..it is very hard to see how you can continue operations, and you know it. listen, if you are doing something which is against the indian law and a competent authority takes the decision to close down your bank account, are we a banana republic? what do you think? india is... there are laws in this country. if you have anything against, amnesty can go to the supreme court of india, can go to any court in india... the truth is... they decided to shut down. no, the truth, mr taneja, is that amnesty and indeed other human rights groups, but let's focus on amnesty, because they're the ones that, in the words of amnesty‘s senior director rajat khosla in delhi, he said, "we have faced an onslaught of attacks, bullying and harassment by the government. it has been completely systematic." and the truth is, you've done that because amnesty continued to report on what you were doing in kashmir. that is the continued detention of hundreds... let me... hang on. let me finish. . . hundreds and hundreds of people in kashmir, ever since you revoked their special autonomy status. many of those people have not been released. the human rights abuses continue. also, amnesty pointed out that you have utterly failed to bring to justice the police who were involved in aiding and abetting the violence committed in riots in february of this year. amnesty catalogues all of that. you then freeze their accounts and you close them down. the question again is, what are you so scared of? in our country, we are very transparent country. you've got a big bureau in delhi. ask your people, do they face any such difficulties? the number of newspapers, you know, foreign, and, you know, that's not how it works. we are a very open country. you know, and you know that very well. the question is, amnesty, if they had any problem with the tax authorities, they should have gone to court. you know, companies, vodafone, a british company, they have faced, they faced some tax problems. they have gone to court. they've won the case against the government of india. if you have any problem, they should have gone to the court and basically explained their case to the court, asked for the justice in the court, because oui’ courts are among the best you can find on the planet. that's how it works. now, in terms of, you know, reporting and all that, people are reporting what's happened in different part of the country. yes, in kashmir, there are some challenges. but those. . .those challenges, those reports are coming from the media. indian newspaper, foreign newspaper, and all that. that's how it works. yes, there are challenges. we also know that, you know, who the forces that are behind. there is a country called islamic republic of pakistan. you know, that they are the ones behind all this. we are fighting the terrorism. and we expect that all democracies, all democratic countries to support countries that are at the receiving end of the state—sponsored terrorism. the kashmir they are referring to, you are basically referring to, is state—sponsored terrorism by a country called islamic republic of pakistan. yeah, well... you've got an office in islamabad. get these facts checked and if i am wrong, i'll withdraw my words. yeah... if pakistan is not involved in kashmir, if it's not a state disordered by pakistan, i'll take my words back. yeah, well... ask your bureau there and they will share the facts with you. in that... let's go by cold facts, not rhetoric. in the course of that answer, mr taneja, you very successfully managed to put the spotlight and attention on pakistan. but throughout this interview, i've tried to ask you about the management of the covid crisis, the economic crisis and the divisions within your country. the management of all of that of your prime minister, narendra modi. and let us end just with a thought about the way in which he continues to push a populist, sectarian message across your country. were you proud of him? did you think it reflected good judgment, when in the late summer he chose to go to ayodhya and celebrate the foundation of a new temple on the site of what was, of course, until 1992, one of the most important mosques in all of india, in ayodhya, which was, of course, destroyed and led to sectarian riots. and this year, in the middle of the covid pandemic crisis, your prime minister chose to celebrate the beginning of the construction of a temple on that site. were you proud of that? no, no. you say sectarian, populist. i don't buy all this. there is no truth in it. and i'm shocked to hear from this, you, you said that was the most respected mosque in the country. you're factually incorrect. please do your homework. no... that wasn't that mosque. you're actually misquoting me. that was not... isaid... no, no, i'm sorry... isaid, i did not say it was the most important. what did you say? i said it was... repeat it. it was an important... you said most important. it was an important mosque... it was not important. ..in your country. it was not important. it was destroyed. it was not an important mosque in the country. listen... destroyed in 1992. let me correct you. it was...it was demolished in 1992. here, you are factually right. but to say that was the most important, important mosque in the country, that's not true. ayodhya is a very small town. it was a local mosque. and, you know, they stopped actually... ..performing, you know, prayers there a long time ago. long, long time ago, you know. so please, let's...let's, when it comes to the facts, it was...it was a...it used to be a mosque. it was not an important mosque. it was highly politicised. and after that, you know, that what happened there, what happened there, matter went to the court and the temple, you know, lord rama, to hindus of india, there's one billion hindus on the planet, lord rama is the same asjesus christ to christians or muhammad, prophet muhammad, to muslims. that's a very, very important place. don't ignore that. mr taneja... hindus want the temple there. and, by the way... if you would... ..by the way, majority of muslims want the temple there. mr taneja. majority of indian muslims want the temple there. mr taneja, if you would... majority of muslims. 99% of indian muslims. if you would, we have to end, if you would just address this thought. india is in a very deep crisis right now. what mr modi appears to be intent on doing is exacerbating communal division, pursuing his populist, hindutva nationalist message. is that really...? no. is that really in the interests of your country? well, you see, first of all, this is your view. you are an independent person, you are entitled to your view, but there is no truth in it. the fact is, the fact is that india is a vibrant democracy. india is home to 200 million muslims, 30 million christians, you know, we are number—one majority hindu, number—two majority, largest majority is muslim, number three is christians. we want to build in india a prosperous country where hindus, muslims, christians, we are all going to live together. all your idea that you have about india are not right. i will... you are welcome. please come and see the country and come back after ten years, and you will realise, all that you have formed the opinion about india, is that... well... ..that opinion is not correct. we shall... it's factually incorrect. we shall both revisit this over the next few years. but for now, i must... you are welcome. ..i must stop you. and thank you very much for being on hardtalk, narendra taneja, thank you very much indeed. thank you. thanks. hello there. when the sun came out yesterday, we saw 19 celsius, temperatures above where they should be. and they have been for much of the week. but we will swing now to feeling colder for the next few days, probably with temperatures dipping a little bit below where they should be. we will still see some sunshine like we saw on thursday between the showers, this was the rain that moved away, the showers came in, but this next little area of low pressure comes in, giving some quite heavy rain actually through the night as it crosses scotland, northern ireland into the northern half of england and wales. you can see the wraparound here, the area of low pressure, a brisk north—westerly bringing heavy showers, frequent showers following that rain. so, as we go through the day, there will be early brightness in the south and east, but the rain will eventually reach here by lunchtime. still some heavy rain upon that weather front and we still have that wraparound left around the area of low pressure and rain in the north—east of scotland, northern isles and elsewhere, sunny spells and showers. quite a brisk breeze, gusty near those showers, and temperatures will be down, it is colder air, so we will do well to reach about 13—14 in the south, more like eight to 10 degrees in the north. some of these showers could be heavy with hail and thunder. they will continue through the night into saturday morning as well with further bands of showers going southwards, but the air is colder, so where we see the clear spells, it will turn quite chilly as temperatures fall fairly close to freezing in the glens of scotland. so, it's because we have this cold air mass coming down on that north—westerly breeze. but again, we have high pressure to the west and that will tend to start to see the showers easing away through the second half of the weekend, but we're going to keep a close eye on this area of low pressure, as always it's going to include the risk of showers or even into next week some longer spells of rain, but for saturday, bands of showers will make their way southwards on that north—north—westerly airstream, probably more showers in northern and western areas, but they could at times fall further east and again, temperatures as on friday, well down, except in shelter. 13 or 1a if you shelter from that northerly breeze. and that wind is still with us on sunday, but probably lighter, the high pressure starting to build in from the west, probably fewershowers, but again, always going to be more of a chance near the low pressure in the north sea, so closer to the eastern parts of england and wales. so, into next week, some uncertainty on where that area of low pressure is going to go. as ever, we will keep you updated. welcome to bbc news — i'm lewis vaughan jones. our top stories: back to work — donald trump's doctor says he's completed his course of treatment, and could return to public engagements from saturday. in michigan, the fbi arrests six men in an alleged plot to kidnap the state's governor, gretchen whitmer. more fighting and more deaths in the disputed region of nagorno—karabakh, but peace talks are imminent. and the acclaimed us poet louise gluck wins the nobel prize for literature.

Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News 20201009

hello and welcome. president donald trump's doctor says the president has completed his course of therapy for coronavirus, and could return to public engagements as early as saturday. here's a memo written by the president's doctor, dr sean conley, released by the white house a short time ago. in it, dr conley says that the president has remained stable since returning to the white house and responded extremely well to treatment. for more i'm joined by our washington correspondent, nomia iqbal. what does this memo tell us? it's interesting what the memo doesn't tell us, to be honest. while he says that donald trump is on the road to recovery and should be able to resume his public duties by saturday, it doesn't really answer any questions on when mr trump was diagnosed with coronavirus or when he starts to get those first symptoms. we don't know, nothing about his first simple terms or his first positive test, we don't even really know if his tested negative, and those of the questions that people want to know. i'm not a medical expert but there will be some scepticism over how the president is able to resume public duties so quickly. i think it's not a coincidence thatis think it's not a coincidence that is soonest that note came out, donald trump's campaign manager bill stepien who is also tested positive released a statement saying the debate next week, there is much drama going on around that, that it be continued, that it should be held in person. the debates commission wanted to hold it virtually because of donald trump having the virus. one thing we do know is that donald trump of course loves the rallies, the campaigning, being out there in person. he will certainly want to be out there, and that he is trailing on the polls. he will obviously feel he needs to do something to move the dial on that. that's right. in fact, move the dial on that. that's right. infact, donald move the dial on that. that's right. in fact, donald trump was released from hospital pretty soon after getting coronavirus and maintains he is in good health, is recovering, released a video today appealing to the seniors, which he called his favourite people in the world, and touted his belief that this experimental drug he is on, regeneron, has cured him effectively speaking but yes, he wants to be out there on the campaign trail. next week was a town hall vent and he said he wanted to do it in person, joe biden pulled out eventually, so now we are in a situation where we don't know if it's going to go ahead and i'm sure we will get an updated some point. there is another debate to be had at some point towards the end of the month but these debates, it's getting close now. we are less than four weeks away from election day and most americans have made up their minds at this stage. thank you, the pace of the new cycle out there means i'm surei the new cycle out there means i'm sure i will be speaking to you in the next couple of hours. staying in the us, 13 men have been charged with an alleged plot to kidnap the governor of the us state of michigan, gretchen whitmer. the fbi says the plot involved six of the men abducting the governor and taking her to a remote location to put her on trial for treason. governor whitmer has accused president trump of encouraging far—right groups by — as she put it — fraternising with domestic terrorists. just last week, the president of the united states stood before the american people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two michigan militia groups. "stand back and stand by," he told them. "stand back and stand by." hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. when our leaders speak, their words matter. they carry weight. when our leaders meet with, encourage or fraternise with domestic terrorists, they legitimise their actions and they are complicit. we can now speak to irish times' journalist stephen starr who met members of the wolverine michigan militia corps last year. he's in dayton, ohio. thank you for coming on the programme. so this group that we clearly don't know much about, as in the rest of the world, you've actually been in person to meet them last year. what did you make of them when you saw them up close? just to be 100% clear, this group that has been accused is called the wolverine watchmen and the organisation i met was the michigan militia core watchmen. the link between them is not clear although we can surmise that it clear although we can surmise thatitis clear although we can surmise that it is unlikely there are two separate michigan militia groups both with the name wolverine and the title. i met them at an annual open event they were holding at a restau ra nt, they were holding at a restaurant, in a village called howell which is half—an—hour from where two of the people we re from where two of the people were arrested last night in relation to the plot, were found. a disparate group of people, i would say, about 20 people, i would say, about 20 people in total, a number of them there for the first time, there were new people who would join the meeting, and were happy with the state of —— unhappy with the state of the country. some of the people we re very country. some of the people were very cagey, not interested in speaking to the press. if i could split them into groups, there were a section of people, there were a section of people, the organisers who spoke about tactics in terms of camping or in terms of outdoor activities and things like that. there was one gentleman was a military vetera n one gentleman was a military veteran who quite outspoken as well and about the state of political leadership. on that point, that grievance in the state of political leadership, given that, how surprised or shocked were you when you heard about this alleged lot to actually kidnap the governor? it's interesting that you mention that because something that you said, and it wasn't a question i asked, they were unhappy with the state political leadership. in one of the made a comment in relation to taxes or infrastructure around michigan, so to what extent we can make a link, if it's one and the same group, we are not sure, but what we can be certain of is the fact that these expect the state political leadership was on their minds. how seriously did you take them and their grievances at the time? it's difficult to say from meeting a group of people, meeting them for a couple of hours. the purpose of the meeting was to recruit new members, and they would ask the media to come along. and kind of sit in on the conversation. i was sent an email thereafter when i was sent the link, saying they were very unhappy, and they made the point that they would never speak to the media again. some of the people at this meeting wouldn't give their name and in a letter they said, after they read the article, they wouldn't say who they were, making these comments, so it gives a sense at least that there is something to hide. that's interesting. there are reports of communications on social media, what they assumed were closed groups. that they did manage to be tracked, but the idea of secrecy is being picked up idea of secrecy is being picked up as idea of secrecy is being picked upasa idea of secrecy is being picked up as a team. absolutely. one of the cohort, if we can say, a group of young men, smoke —— spoke very little. 0ne group of young men, smoke —— spoke very little. one of them spoke very little. one of them spoke quite disparagingly about the federal government saying things like the federal government has weapons, what is the reason the federal government has all these weapons and i can't have them? 0ne gentleman was quite outspoken in that regard. the majority of the young men wouldn't speak to me, wouldn't say who they were, why they had come there at all. stephen, great to talk to you, thank you so much for coming on the programme. we will stress that the men named in this particular court case are innocent until a trial starts. but for the moment, thank you for coming on. there's much more on this story on our website, including this breakdown on what the accused men were planning and a detailed look at us militia groups. just log onto bbc.com/news. let's get some of the day's other news. there has been fresh fighting between azerbaijan and ethnic armenians over the disputed region of nagorno—karabakh ahead of talks involving the us, france and russia, aimed at securing a ceasefire, and averting a wider war. more than 300 people have died and thousands have been displaced since the latest fighting broke out last month. 0ur international correspondent 0rla guerin reports from the city of goranboy. she the newest victim of a conflict decades old — an azeri woman killed in indiscriminate shelling by armenian forces. but both sides are guilty of that. a mourner cries out, "god, kill the armenians!" the community here steeped in its own pain, just like its enemies across the front line. tourian guliyeva, on the left, was 63 and a widow. her neighbours deep in shock, just hours after the attack. translation: she was a single woman and she wouldn't leave her house. we were asking her, "come to us, stay with us or go to your relatives." she said, "they won't be able to hit us." but they did, at 6:30am. her sister—in—law is anguished but committed to the fight for nagorno—karabakh. "kara bakh is ours", she tells me. "it was ours and it will be ours." "0ur sons and brothers are fighting now, and i know they will be "fighting to the end." it has already been a long battle for many here. they were driven from nagorno—karabakh during the war in the early ‘90s. they say it's occupied territory and part of their motherland. there is a real sense here of shock, of grief and of anger. this was a woman killed in her own home, in her own bed. every fresh attack, every new death adds to the bitterness here, which already stretches back for decades. as tourian was buried, russia, france and the us were pushing for a ceasefire. for now, there is no sign of that, no respite for those who mourn, here or inside nagorno—karabakh. 0rla guerin, bbc news, goranboy, azerbaijan. stay with us on bbc news. still to come: the debate over the debate. it won't be virtual, but will the next us presidential match—up still go ahead? this was a celebration by people who were relishing their freedom. they believe everything's going to be different from now on. they think their country will be respected in the world once more, as it used to be, before slobodan milosevic took power. the dalai lama, the exiled spiritual leader of tibet, has won this year's nobel peace prize. as the parade was reaching its climax, two grenades exploded and a group of soldiersjumped from a military truck taking part in the parade, and ran towards the president, firing from kalashnikov automatic rifles. after 437 years, the skeletal ribs of henry viii's tragic warship emerged. but even as divers worked to buoy her up, the mary rose went through another heart—stopping drama. i want to be the people's governor. i want to represent everybody. i believe in the people of california. this is bbc news. the latest headlines: donald trump's doctor says he's completed his course of treatment for coronavirus, and could return to public engagements from saturday. in michigan, the fbi arrests six men in an alleged plot to kidnap the state's governor, gretchen whitmer. well, as we heard earlier, there are many question marks over the likelihood of a second presidential debate between president trump and his democratic challenger, joe biden. the plan was to hold a virtual debate because of mr trump's treatment for covid—i9, but the president said that would be a waste of time. we'll have more on how the debate schedule is likely to pan out, but first here's our north america editor jon sopel on last night's vice—presidential debate. applause never before has a vp debate been so important, and there's a reason for that. with both presidential candidates well into their 70s, the old phrase about the number two being only a heartbeat away from the oval office has never seemed more relevant. in the debate between mike pence and kamala harris, covid was centre stage, although divided by plexiglass. the american people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. but i want the american people to know that, from the very first day, president donald trump has put the health of america first. whatever the vice president is claiming the administration has done, clearly, it hasn't worked. but when you say what the american people have done over these last eight months hasn't worked, that's a great disservice to the sacrifices the american people have made. this debate had none of the histrionics and shouting of last week, in what felt like a 0—0 draw. to be honest, the most exciting bit came when a very black fly landed in mike pence's very white hair, and stayed there. president trump and i stand with you. it ended with this trail—ahead. the second presidential debate is next week on october 15th — a town hall—style debate in miami. but this morning the independent commission that runs the presidential debates ruled that next week's encounter should be virtual. the president's reaction — a furious "i' no, i'm not going to waste my time on a virtual debate. that's not what debating's all about. you sit behind a computer and do a debate — it's ridiculous. and then they cut you off whenever they want. joe biden, who has agreed to a virtual debate, was today throwing up his hands. we don't know what the president's going to do — he changes his mind every second. so, for me to comment on that now would be irresponsible. i think i'm going to follow the commission's recommendations. if he goes off and he's going to have a rally, i'll... i don't know what i'll do. the strategy of the president pre—illness had been to change the subject away from the pandemic. now he seems to be embracing it as a gift. i think this was a blessing from god, that i caught it. this was a blessing in disguise. jon sopel, bbc news, washington. you code eight out of nine us elections correctly and he would say nine out of nine ona and he would say nine out of nine on a technicality. we will give you the 100% record because we haven't got time to go into details. you very much for coming on the programme. we will get to your predictions, they are remarkable, in a second. i want to get your thoughts on these debates, the fa ct thoughts on these debates, the fact they are being postponed, delayed, virtual, not virtual, happening, not happening, what you make of it all? i cannot understand why donald trump wa nts to understand why donald trump wants to avoid the debates. looking at conventional analysis, it is way behind. he needs to change the game. avoiding debates won't do it. and by the way, there is a precedent in essence for a virtual debate 60 years ago, one of the kennedy— nixon debates was held virtually. nixon, kennedy and the moderator were at remote locations and they had a screen with the two of them together, certainly there is less opportunity to interrupt and bully, if that is what trump wa nts to bully, if that is what trump wants to do, but they did not serve him well in the first debate. interesting for -- interesting. how much influence do you think these debates can have? none at all. there is no predictive value in the debates. hillary clinton 13 debates. hillary clinton 13 debates according to scientific polls quite handily, she still lost. barack polls quite handily, she still lost. ba rack 0bama polls quite handily, she still lost. barack 0bama was trounced in the first debate in 2012 by mitt romney, but he won. john kerry, be george w bush in the 2004 debates, he lost. i am not against debates, they are important moments, but in terms of predicting elections, forget it. let's go to your predictions than. you predicted donald trump were not many people dead, and you got a little memento for your prediction. indeed. would you like to see it? yes, go on, show it to us. yes, indeed. this is a note that donald trump wrote to me after his election on the washington post, where i predicted his win. as you can see, it says "professor, congrats. good call." and in big sharpie letters, donaldj call." and in big sharpie letters, donald j trump. wonderful. thank you very much for showing us that. the thing is, he is right. it was a good call. did you feel quite lonely making that prediction for —— four years ago? were you nervous about it? i'm 73, i have been doing this for 40 yea rs, have been doing this for 40 years, i get butterflies in my stomach every four years. unlike nate silver, i don't give you probabilities, i tell you who is going to win. nate silver says there is a 71% chance hillary clinton will win, then when trump wins he says, see, i told you. 29% chance, just can't be wrong. i tell you, predicting trump last time did not make me popular in 90% democratic washington, dc. but i have a different prediction this time. shall we go through it? what is your prediction this time? my prediction this time? my prediction is this time donald trump will become the first sitting president since george hw bush in 1992 to lose a real action bed. it is based on my 13 keys to the white house, which gauge the strength and performance of the party in power. and if six or more of the keys go against trump, he isa the keys go against trump, he is a predicted loser. well, at the end of 2019, he had only four keys against him, but then we had his ineffective response to the pandemic and to the cries for social and racial justice, which cost him three more keys. the short—term term economic key, measured by an election year recession, the long—term economic care, the cost of the nation's growth, antisocial unrest gear because of what is raging across the land. the is now seven keys, one more than needed to protect his defeat, never before in the history of the united states has the party holding the white house ever suffered such a dramatic and sudden reversal of fortune injust dramatic and sudden reversal of fortune in just a dramatic and sudden reversal of fortune injust a matter of dramatic and sudden reversal of fortune in just a matter of a few months. never happened before. alan, absolutely fascinating. will you promise to come back on after the election to see if you make it ten out of ten? absolutely. i am always willing to take the accolades and my losses if i am wrong. alan, thank you. take care. we will leave the us and move on. four hostages have flown into bamako airport in mali after being released by their islamist captors. they received a jubilant welcome from family and supporters. french aid worker sophie petronin was welcomed by her son. she had been held almost four years. malian opposition politician, soumaila cisse and two others, both italians, were also freed. it's not known how they gained their liberty, but it follows the release of more than a hundred islamic militants at the weekend. now, one of america's leading poets — louise gluck — has been awarded this year's nobel prize for literature. the swedish academy praised her unmistakable poetic voice and its austere beauty — but added that her work was also full of biting wit. she's only the sixteenth woman to win the prize. the bbc‘s tim allman reports. it came to me one night as i was falling asleep, that i had finished with those amorous adventures to which i had long been a slave. finished with love, my heart murmured. the words of louise gluck, read by the poet herself. a writer exploring familiar themes like love, ageing, death and humanity. her work had already won plenty of awards, but now it would win the biggest of them of. the nobel prize in literature for 2020 is awarded to the american poet, louise gluck, for her unmistakable poetic voice that with austere beauty makes individual existence universal. louise gluck has published more than a dozen works of poetry and essays. her voice described as unmistakable and compromising and candid, always striving for clarity. this is a great resource when treats grey topics with radical change, a lea p forward topics with radical change, a leap forward is made out of deep loss. presented with a national humanities medal by paracki national humanities medal by pa racki 0bama national humanities medal by paracki 0bama in 2016, was said to be surprised by the award —— barack 0bama. she was already the us poet laureate. you can reach me on twitter. i'm @lvaughanjones. hello there. when the sun came out yesterday, we saw 19 celsius, temperatures above where they should be. and they have been for much of the week. but we will swing now to feeling colder for the next few days, probably with temperatures dipping a little bit below where they should be. we will still see some sunshine like we saw on thursday between the showers, this was the rain that moved away, the showers came in, but this next little area of low pressure comes in, giving some quite heavy rain actually through the night as it crosses scotland, northern ireland into the northern half of england and wales. you can see the wraparound here, the area of low pressure, a brisk north—westerly bringing heavy showers, frequent showers following that rain. so, as we go through the day, there will be early brightness in the south and east, but the rain will eventually reach here by lunchtime. still some heavy rain upon that weather front and we still have that wraparound left around the area of low pressure and rain in the north—east of scotland, northern isles and elsewhere, sunny spells and showers. quite a brisk breeze, gusty near those showers, and temperatures will be down, it is colder air, so we will do well to reach about 13—14 in the south, more like eight to 10 degrees in the north. some of these showers could be heavy with hail and thunder. they will continue through the night into saturday morning as well with further bands of showers going southwards, but the air is colder, so where we see the clear spells, it will turn quite chilly as temperatures fall fairly close to freezing in the glens of scotland. so, it's because we have this cold air mass coming down on that north—westerly breeze. but again, we have high pressure to the west and that will tend to start to see the showers easing away through the second half of the weekend, but we're going to keep a close eye on this area of low pressure, as always it's going to include the risk of showers or even into next week some longer spells of rain, but for saturday, bands of showers will make their way southwards on that north—north—westerly airstream, probably more showers in northern and western areas, but they could at times fall further east and again, temperatures as on friday, well down, except in shelter. 13 or 14 if you shelter from that northerly breeze. and that wind is still with us on sunday, but probably lighter, the high pressure starting to build in from the west, probably fewershowers, but again, always going to be more of a chance near the low pressure in the north sea, so closer to the eastern parts of england and wales. so, into next week, some uncertainty on where that area of low pressure is going to go. as ever, we will keep you updated. this is bbc news. the headlines: donald trump's doctor says the president has completed his course of therapy for coronavirus and could return to public engagements as early as saturday. in a memo, dr sean conley said the president has remained stable since returning to the white house and responded extremely well to treatment. the democratic governor of the us state of michigan has accused president trump of encouraging right—wing militia groups after 13 men were charged with an alleged plot to kidnap her. in a statement, gretchen whitmer said that when leaders fraternise with domestic terrorists, they legitimise their actions. there has been fresh fighting between azerbaijan and ethnic armenians over the disputed region of nagorno—karabakh ahead of talks involving the us, france and russia aimed at securing a ceasefire and averting a wider war. more than 300 people have died since the fighting broke out last month.

Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News 20201009

hello, welcome to the programme. i will start in the us. us president donald trump has just given an interview with fox news, saying he's in great shape and is looking forward to a return to public campaigning, but had to be repeatedly pressed on whether he's had a coronavirus test since his diagnosis. i think ithink i'm i think i'm going to try doing a rally on saturday night. if we have enough time to put it together but we want to do a rally in florida probably on saturday night. might come back and do one in pennsylvania in the following night and it's incredible what's going on, i feel so good. have you had a test since your diagnosis a week ago? well, what we're doing is probably the test will be tomorrow and the actual test because there is no reason to test all the time but they found very little infection or virus, if any, i found very little infection or virus, ifany, i don't found very little infection or virus, if any, i don't know that they found any, i did not go into it greatly with the doctors. for more, i'm joined by our north america correspondent david willis in los angeles. very interesting, the president bullish about the state of his health, saying that he feels well and he wants to get back on the campaign trail as early as saturday. he is hoping to put together a rally in the swing state of florida and won the following night in another swing state, pennsylvania. that following the word from his personal physician sean conley that the president has now completed his treatment and can return to normal duties. what was interesting about this interview was the president was asked by somebody who has long been a supporter of his, fox news's sean hannity, whether he had been tested recently for the coronavirus, since his diagnosisjust over a the coronavirus, since his diagnosis just over a week ago. and did you test negative and on both occasions, the president dodged and declined to give a straightforward answer. now, there has been a lot of speculation of course about when the president first became infected with the coronavirus, potentially affecting the people with whom he associated, so even more confusion if you like about the background to president trump ausmat coronavirus diagnosis. interestingly, he lost his voice a couple of times during the interview, didn't he. —— trump's. he did, there was one moment when he coughed and disappeared off the line for a couple of seconds and returned to say excuse me. that, i am sure as well, will raise further speculation amongst those who believe the president perhaps is not as, he puts it, a person “— perhaps is not as, he puts it, a person —— a perfect physical specimen at this point in time. it has become a very controversial matter in the united states though lewis because the president's personal physician mr conley has dodged direct questions, not least about the sort of treatment that the president has been receiving at the walter reed medical hospital in marilyn. david willis. 13 men have been charged with an alleged plot to kidnap the governor of the us state of michigan, gretchen whitmer. the fbi says the plot involved six of the men abducting the governor and taking her to a remote location to put her on trial for treason. governor whitmer has accused president trump of encouraging far right groups by, as she put it, fraternizing with domestic terrorists. just last week, the president of the united states stood before the american people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two michigan militia groups. "stand back and stand by," he told them. "stand back and stand by." hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. when our leaders speak, their words matter. they carry weight. when our leaders meet with, encourage or fraternise with domestic terrorists, they legitimise their actions and they are complicit. earlier, i spoke to irish times' journalist stephen starr, who met members of the wolverine michigan militia corps last year. i asked what his thoughts were after meeting the group. just to be 100% clear, this group that has been accused is called the wolverine watchmen and the organisation i met was the michigan militia corps watchmen. wolverines, pardon me. the link between them is not clear, although we can surmise that it is unlikely there are two separate michigan militia groups both with the name wolverine in the title. i met them at an annual open event they were holding at a restaurant in a village called howell, which is 30 minutes from where two of the people were arrested last night in relation to the plot, were found. a disparate group of people, i would say, about 20 people in total, a number of them there for the first time. there were new people who would join the meeting, and who were unhappy with the state of the country. some of the people were very cagey, not interested in speaking to the press. if i could split them into groups, there were a section of people, the organisers, who spoke about tactics in terms of camping or in terms of outdoor activities and things like that. there was one gentleman was a military veteran who quite outspoken as well about the state of political leadership. well, that's interesting, just on that point, that grievance in the state political leadership and things like that. given that, how surprised or shocked were you when you heard about this alleged plot to actually kidnap the governor? it's interesting that you mention that because something that you said — and it wasn't a question i asked — they were unhappy with the state political leadership. and one of them made a comment in relation to taxes or infrastructure around michigan, so to what extent we can make a link, if it's one and the same group, we are not sure, but what we can be certain of is the fact that these expect the state political leadership was on their minds. that was 1.5 years ago when i met them. how seriously did you take them and their grievances at the time? it's difficult to say from meeting a group of people, guarded people, meeting them for a couple of hours. the purpose of that meeting was to recruit new members and they would ask the media to come along and kind of sit in on the conversation. i was sent an email thereafter, after i was sent the link to the story, and they said they were very unhappy and they made the point of saying that they would never speak to the media again. some of the people at this meeting wouldn't give their name. in the letter, they said, after they read the article, they wouldn't say who they were, making these comments, so it gives a sense at least that there is something to hide. at the very least. that's interesting. we know from these allegations, these reports that their communications on social media of what they assumed were closed groups, that actually, we think, managed to be tracked. the idea of secrecy is being picked up as a theme. absolutely. one of the cohort, if we can say, a group of young men, within that group, spoke very little. one of them spoke quite disparagingly about the federal government, saying things like the federal government has weapons, what is the reason the federal government has all these weapons and i can't have them? one gentleman was quite outspoken in that regard. the majority of the young men wouldn't speak to me, wouldn't say who they were, why they had come there at all. our thanks to stephen starr. there's much more on this story on our website, including this breakdown on what the accused men were planning and a detailed look at us militia groups. just log on to bbc.com/news. there has been fresh fighting between azerbaijan and ethnic armenians over the disputed region of nagorno—karabakh ahead of talks involving the us, france and russia, aimed at securing a ceasefire and averting a wider war. more than 300 people have died and thousands have been displaced since the latest fighting broke out last month. our international correspondent orla guerin reports from the city of goranboy. the newest victim of a conflict decades old — an azeri woman killed in indiscriminate shelling by armenian forces. but both sides are guilty of that. a mourner cries out, "god, kill the armenians!" the community here steeped in its own pain, just like its enemies across the front line. tourian guliyeva, on the left, was 63 and a widow. her neighbours deep in shock, just hours after the attack. translation: she was a single woman and she wouldn't leave her house. we were asking her, "come to us. stay with us or go to your relatives." she said, "they won't be able to hit us". but they did, at 6:30am. her sister—in—law is anguished, but committed to the fight for nagorno—karabakh. "kara bakh is ours", she tells me. "it was ours and it will be ours. our sons and brothers are fighting now, and i know they will be fighting to the end." it has already been a long battle for many here. they were driven from nagorno—karabakh during the war in the early ‘90s. they say it's occupied territory and part of their motherland. there is a real sense here of shock, of grief and of anger. this was a woman killed in her own home, in her own bed. every fresh attack, every new death, adds to the bitterness here, which already stretches back for decades. as turyan was buried, russia, france and the us were pushing for a ceasefire. for now, there is no sign of that, no respite for those who mourn, here or inside nagorno—karabakh. orla guerin, bbc news, goranboy, azerbaijan. four hostages have flown into bamako airport in mali after being released by their islamist captors. they received a jubilant welcome from family and supporters. french aid worker sophie petronin was welcomed by her son. she had been held almost four years. malian opposition politician soumalia cisse and two others, both italians, were also freed. it's not known how they gained their freedom, but it follows the release of more than 100 islamic militants at the weekend. stay with us on bbc news. still to come: the show must go on — why failed harvests, extreme weather and coronavirus won't stop north korea throwing a big party. this was a celebration by people who were relishing their freedom. they believe everything's going to be different from now on. they think their country will be respected in the world once more, as it used to be, before slobodan milosevic took power. the dalai lama, the exiled spiritual leader of tibet, has won this year's nobel peace prize. as the parade was reaching its climax, two grenades exploded and a group of soldiersjumped from a military truck taking part in the parade, and ran towards the president, firing from kalashnikov automatic rifles. after 437 years, the skeletal ribs of henry viii's tragic warship emerged. but even as divers worked to buoy her up, the mary rose went through another heart—stopping drama. i want to be the people's governor. i want to represent everybody. i believe in the people of california. this is bbc news. i'm lewis vaughan jones. the latest headlines: donald trump tells american television he's in great shape and wants to get back on the campaign trail. thirteen men have been charged with an alleged plot to kidnap the governor of the us state of michigan, gretchen whitmer. there are many question marks over the likelihood of a second presidential debate between president trump and his democratic challenger, joe biden. the plan was to hold a virtual debate because of mr trump's treatment for covid but the president said that would be a waste of time. allan lichtman is professor of history at the american university in washington. he's known for calling correctly eight out of the last nine us elections and he would argue, due to a technicality, it is actually nine out of nine. i asked him what he made of all the issues over the debates. i can't understand why donald trump wants to avoid debates. leave aside my prediction as we will, just looking at conventional analysis, he is way behind. he needs to change the game. avoiding debates won't do it. and by the way, there is precedent for, in essence, a virtual debate — 60 years ago, one of the kennedy—nixon debates was held virtually. nixon and kennedy and the moderator were all at remote locations, and theyjust had a screen of the two of them together. certainly, understandably, there is less opportunity to interrupt and bully, if that is what trump wants to do, but they did not serve him well in the first debate. but that did not serve him well in the first debate. interesting. how much difference do you think these debates can have? i think none at all. there is no predictive value in debates. hillary clinton won all three debates, according to scientific polls, quite handily, she still lost. barack obama was trounced in the first debate in 2012 by mitt romney — he won. john kerry, bested george w bush generally in the 2004 debates — he lost. i am not against debates, they are important moments, but in terms of predicting elections, forget it. that is fascinating. now, let's go to your predictions then. you predicted donald trump when not many people did, and you got a little memento for your prediction. indeed. would you like to see it? yes, go on, show it to us. yes, indeed. this is a note that donald trump wrote to me after his election, on the washington post, where i predicted his win. as you can see, it says, "professor, congrats. good call." and in big sharpie letters, signed donald j trump. wonderful. thank you, thank you very much for showing us that. the thing is, he is right, it was a good call. did you feel quite lonely making that prediction four years ago? were you worried, were you nervous about it? i'm 73, i have been doing this for a0 years, i get butterflies in my stomach every four years, because, unlike compilers of polls, like nate silver, i don't give you probabilities, i tell you who is going to win. so nate silver says, there is a 71% chance hillary clinton will win, and then when trump wins he says, see, i told you there was a 29% chance — so he can't be wrong. and i'll tell you, predicting trump last time did not make me very popular in 90% democratic washington, dc. but i have a different prediction this time. shall we go through it? yeah, what is your prediction this time? my prediction is this time donald trump will become the first sitting president since george hw bush in 1992 to lose a re—election bid. it is based on my 13 keys to the white house, which gauge the strength and performance of the party in power. and if six or more of the keys go against trump, he is a predicted loser. well, at the end of 2019, he had only four keys against him, but then we had his ineffective response to the pandemic and to the cries for social and racialjustice, which cost him three more keys. the short—term term economic key — measured by an election year recession, the long—term economic key — the cost of the negative growth, and the social unrest key because of what is raging across the land. so he is down now seven keys, one more than is needed to protect his defeat. one more than is needed to predict his defeat. and let me conclude by saying, never before in the history of the united states has the party holding the white house ever suffered such a dramatic and sudden reversal of fortu ne injust a matter of a few months. never happened before. our thanks to allan lichtman there. he does promise to come back on the programme to see whether his prediction was correct. north korea is preparing for what is expected to be one of the largest military parades in its history, as it marks the 75th anniversary of the foundation of the workers‘ party. the parades are a chance to show off new missiles despite strict economic sanctions. but it's been a difficult yearfor north korea after kim jong—un's failure to reach a deal with donald trump in 2019. on top of that, the covid—19 pandemic and extreme weather have cut off supplies and wreaked havoc on harvests, as laura bicker reports. hour after hour, north korean reporters broadcast live from successive typhoons. the destruction wrought on this fragile country was seen in real time, a first for this usually secretive state. kim jong—un went to see the damage for himself and raised concerns about vital harvests. this impoverished country has also been battered by the effects of the covid—19 pandemic. although north korea denies having a case, it has been locked down for months. translation: all the routes - land, sea, and air — it's a complete shutdown of both people and material. the north korean economy has come to a halt. smugglers and small traders at the border have questioned why the regime is risking the fate of the economy if there's no covid—19 in the country. south of the border, our team is allowed into the demilitarised zone. we drive past the man—made barriers which have divided the two koreas for 70 years. from here, those curious from the south love to peer at the north. this is as close as they can get. 2020 has been difficult for many countries, but for north korea, it has the potential to be devastating. and since the border was shut in january, the 25 million north korean people have been more closed off to the world than ever before. pyongyang dramatically cut off all communication and blew up the inter—korean liaison office earlier this year. but still some have hope of ending this war, even after donald trump and kim jong—un could not reach a deal on denuclearisation. translation: there were efforts to reach a big deal, but that resulted in a no—deal. it is time for us to go back and develop smaller deals in sports and culture. the governor would like north and south to share this landscape and designate it as a peace zone, an unlikely dream for now. instead, south koreans enjoy the autumn sunshine perching on the spine on their side of the peninsula. with few covid—19 restrictions and a certain harvest, there are few worries here. the same cannot be said of their neighbours. laura bicker, bbc news. one of america's leading poets, louise gluck, has been awarded this year's nobel prize for literature. the swedish academy praised her unmistakable poetic voice and its austere beauty, but added that her work was also full of biting wit. she's only the sixteenth woman to win the prize. the bbc‘s tim allman reports. it came to me one night as i was falling asleep that i had finished with those amorous adventures to which i had long been a slave. "finished with love? " my heart murmured. the words of louise gluck, read by the poet herself. a writer exploring familiar themes like love, ageing, death and humanity. her work had already won plenty of awards, but now it would win the biggest of them of all. the nobel prize in literature for 2020 is awarded to the american poet louise gluck, for her unmistakable poetic voice that with austere beauty makes individual existence universal. louise gluck has published more than a dozen works of poetry and essays, her voice described as unmistakable, uncompromising and candid, always striving for clarity. this is a great resource when treats great topics with radical change, when a leap forward is made out of deep loss. gluck herself, presented with a national humanities medal by barack obama in 2016, has said she was surprised by the award. she has already been the us poet laureate. now she gets to be a nobel laureate too. if you did not like the movie jaws, you might not like this. this is in australia and it is close call of a shark attack. take a look at this, this is the former pro surfer matt wilkinson, 100 kilometres south of the gold coast. that dark shadow getting closer is a shark. fortunately, the shark was not keen on matt. the drone footage was filmed by surf lifesavers and warned the so far. you can get me on twitter. this is a bbc news. bye—bye. hello there. when the sun came out yesterday, we saw 19 celsius, temperatures above where they should be. and they have been for much of the week. but we will swing now to feeling colder for the next few days, probably with temperatures dipping a little bit below where they should be. we will still see some sunshine like we saw on thursday between the showers, this was the rain that moved away, the showers came in, but this next little area of low pressure comes in, giving some quite heavy rain actually through the night as it crosses scotland, northern ireland into the northern half of england and wales. you can see the wraparound here, the area of low pressure, a brisk north—westerly bringing heavy showers, frequent showers following that rain. so, as we go through the day, there will be early brightness in the south and east, but the rain will eventually reach here by lunchtime. still some heavy rain upon that weather front and we still have that wraparound left around the area of low pressure and rain in the north—east of scotland, northern isles and elsewhere, sunny spells and showers. quite a brisk breeze, gusty near those showers, and temperatures will be down, it is colder air, so we will do well to reach about 13—14 in the south, more like eight to 10 degrees in the north. some of these showers could be heavy with hail and thunder. they will continue through the night into saturday morning as well with further bands of showers going southwards, but the air is colder, so where we see the clear spells, it will turn quite chilly as temperatures fall fairly close to freezing in the glens of scotland. so, it's because we have this cold air mass coming down on that north—westerly breeze. but again, we have high pressure to the west and that will tend to start to see the showers easing away through the second half of the weekend, but we're going to keep a close eye on this area of low pressure, as always it's going to include the risk of showers or even into next week some longer spells of rain, but for saturday, bands of showers will make their way southwards on that north—north—westerly airstream, probably more showers in northern and western areas, but they could at times fall further east and again, temperatures as on friday, well down, except in shelter. 13 or 1a if you shelter from that northerly breeze. and that wind is still with us on sunday, but probably lighter, the high pressure starting to build in from the west, probably fewershowers, but again, always going to be more of a chance near the low pressure in the north sea, so closer to the eastern parts of england and wales. so, into next week, some uncertainty on where that area of low pressure is going to go. as ever, we will keep you updated. this is bbc news. the headlines: the white house doctor has said president trump should be able to resume public engagements from saturday — the tenth day since his coronavirus diagnosis. in a television interview, mr trump said he might try to attend a campaign rally somewhere in the state of florida on saturday night. the democratic governor of the us state of michigan has accused president trump of encouraging right—wing militia groups after 13 men were charged with an alleged plot to kidnap her. gretchen whitmer said that when leaders fraternize with domestic terrorists they legitimize their actions. there's been fresh fighting between azerbaijan and ethnic armenians over the disputed region of nagorno—karabakh ahead of talks involving the us, france and russia aimed at securing a ceasefire and averting a wider war. more than 300 people have died since the fighting broke out last month.

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