determined from tuesday night a. key state wide office in virginia. the same office that gave rise to ken cuccinelli. the race is close. it seems there are thousands of ballots that went uncounted on election night. we will film you in on the latest on that. we are wondering if history will, indeed, repeat itself with chris christie playing that role. i have thoughts about that. it involves explaining to you what something called a he cume is. you might want to stick around for that. our friend mellissa harris-perry is taking her dedication will pay off. that is ahead. but first, president obama is waking up in miami, florida today on his tour of southern statesch red southern states encouraging republicans to do something he didn't expect he'd have to be doing 17 months ago. it starts in june of 2012. that's when the supreme court issues its long awaited ruling on obama care. to the surprise of many and dismay of conservatives, it upheld the law. >> that ruling came with a catch. the law called for states to expand their ped cade programs, to expand low income people eligible for subsidized health care coverage and for the federal government to pick up the lion's share of the cost of that expansion. but the court also ruled states didn't have to take part in this expansion. they didn't have to take the free medicaid money. it would be their choice. someone said this might be a problem. here we were smack in the middle of the tea party era when opposing fighting and railing against obama care was a test of basic tribal loyaltive. wouldn't governors see a political advantage and imperative in rejecting the money, in rejecting the expansion of ped cade in undercutting a crucial component of the health care law. >> that court ruling came down a year-and-a-half ago, conventional wisdom was resounding. of course not. >> it is the most general federal match in the history of medicaid. a vast ma voter of states will come in. for those few to come in will have to answer why they're letting people down. >> the generous thing you can say is lou was partially right a. handful of republican states have slowly come into the fold. mostly recently, john casich of ohio. still that medicaid money is still being left on the table in half the states. it basically tracks what the red state, blue state dwiechltd there are currently 25 states that are not moving forward on the medicaid expansion. of those 25 states only six of them voted for obama last year. maine, new hampshire, wisconsin, pennsylvania, virginia and florida and not coincidentally not all of those states has a republican governor. in the sixth, new hampshire has a democratic dpof who must deal with a republican state senate. >> that map could be changing a little. new hampshire is right now holding a special session on this issue. the governor maggie hassand a democrat, she is trying to find some kind of compromise with state legislators. virginia on tuesday elected a newf go, a democratic governor, terry mcauliffe, who says he wants to expand ped cade rules in his state. rick scott, florida governor, actually came around on the law this spring only to be jammed up by his republican state legislature. we will see what happens with that. in other red states, there is no sign of any momentum. then there are the states that are embracing medicaid expansion, there are 25 of them. along with the district of columbia. five of those states voted for romney last year. three of them, arkansas, kentucky, west virginia, those three states have democratic governors. also, north dakota jack doulrichle came around, jane brewer waged a protracted fight with her colleagues. governor rick snyder is a democrat in a blue state. if you can make sense of all. that he had a similar standoff with his own party and he prevailed this summer. there is progress on the medicaid expansion front, but it is very slow. and the technical problems with the health care exchanges website have only given republicans another excuse to drag their heels and just say no. as long as fighting obama care remains a preparty test, it's hard to see most of america embracing medicare expansion. this is why the brent to the heart, to dallas texas, to make a pitch for rick merry's state to sign on for expansion. >> i think that all of you understand that no state that actually needs this more than texas. here in just the dallas area, 133,000 people who don't currently have health insurance would immediately get health insurance, without even having to go through the website if the state of texas decided to do it. >> but this is the tea party era. this is texas. so not surprising outside that event there were protesters tweaking president obama. democrats in general are fighting a long war here. it seems that for the foreseeable future, being poor in red state america and poor in blue state america will mean very different levels of service all because of our polarized politics. we will talk about all of this with a policy reporter for politico.com. a political correspondent for national journal, nbc correspondent. steve kornacki, last minute. jeremy peters, politics reporter from the new york times. thank you for joining us. i guess we start with that. we placed jack lew a week after the supreme court ruling came down in june of 2012. i think the conventional wis come he was expressing was, yeah, sure, technically the courts allowed the states could opt out. there will be an immense amount of pressure from the hospitals and their states to take this money. at the end of the day, this is one of those things we will all have to give in. here we are, as we say, a week and a half later, that just hasn't happened. is that a surprise to anyone here? what has happened that alleged the stalemate? >> i think it underestimated the challenge. right now, this is one of the affect. ed ways for republicans to protest this law. they've done a number of symbolic things. they've voted over 40 times in the house to repeal it. they've shut down the government over obama care, which nobody knew it wasn't going to work and succeed into funding that law. so this is one of the ways to effectively throw a monkey wrench in the plan, it does interfere with the law of the land. it covers a large swath of people through the expansion of medicare, medicaid. when they decide to opt out. it interferes with the goals of the law and the mech names put in place. so, for example, the federal government is going to gradually phase out uncomplicated care because that money was supposed to be offset by medicaid and for states that opt out and aren't expanding medicaid, it's an effective way to protest and opt out setting up their own exchanges. that's a part of the problem with the website is there has been a lot of money alocated for states to set up their own exchanges, not for the federal government to put it together. so when they have to take on that work, it interferes with the whole process. or now, it's one of the effective ways the governor has to protest obama care. >> that really is driving all of this, basically the republican party decided in the run up to the enactment of obama care this is the no. 1 thing they are fighting, the test of being a republican today is fighting obama care tooth and name. it seems as long as that's the case, there is no incentive to expand it in his or her state. >> one is by allowing states to opt out of this, what you have is what should have been a policy debate turned into strictly a political debate. that's what's happening in these states right now, legislators rejecting the policy that has become their raise on detra. they will stop at nothing, it seems, to try to smash this law. but where it gets tricky, i think, is if you look at who exactly is suffering because medicaid is not being expanded to the states, these 2006 have not opted into it. that's half the population. it is also two-thirds of the poor. >> and poorer states. >> exactly. >> so these people are left behind. >> i want to play this first. this was president obama in new orleans yesterday. he is making his case in a red state yesterday in new orleans. >> one thing, though, i was talking to your mayor and your governor about, though, a separate issue is one thing the affordable care act does is expand medicaid to cover more of their citizens and, you know, here in louisiana, here in louisiana that, benefitted about 265,000 people. >> so there, he is making the case. of course, within like an hour of giving that speech, the republican governor of louisiana, bobby jindal puts out a statement, we will not allow president obama to bully louisiana into accepting expansion of obama care. we have rejected it in louisiana. because it would cost taxpayers $1.7 over the next ten years and move 250,000 louisianians from private cover to medicaid. a case in point, we don't need top down one size fits all mandates. it strikes me, i start to wonder, what is the point of this tour that president obama is on right now given the sort of polarized reality of american politics. he goes into a red state in louisiana. he makes good faith state for this law. there is nothing to do than attack the bullying of the democratic president. >> i think they are both posturing here. he wants to go there and say he's doing his best to do something, because what kells he do? he knows and they know they're not coming around. i think if i was bobby jindal, i would look at jan brewer in arizona, tea party rewho. she eats scorpions for breakfast, according to title of her book. she was on the fascial stage of immigration a few years ago and she decided to go ahead with the medicaid expansion and it's now become a person is that non-grataf. i was jindal looking at 2016, i would look at that example and say, woe, i better back off there. >> the key is, i don't think he's running for re-election again in arizona, so this is sort of the end of the line for her so what, could, is there anything the president the white house the supporters, what can they do to get the governor of lousiana the government of mississippi, states like this, what can they do to get get them to say, okay. we will sign won medicaid expansion. >> i think the time will be the main thing here. it's been more than a year. lolts of time has passed. a few republican governors have actually signed on. so if you think of them, there are about 30 republican governors, i'd say almost a half signed on to expanding medicaid and tear state. if you look at john case kasich in ohio, he said, we need this for the state we need the money. we will do this on our own. that you notice will they can it to independent court. tennessee is looking at this. up in maine, paul le page has vetoed the expansion of the medicaid, but he's just recently come out and said, you know even though i vetoed it, there are ideas i would support. in arkansas, they came up with a deal to assuage republicans where instead of taking the medicaid money, they would change it so that the money would go to the private insurance. so individuals instead of being on medicaid would use funds for private insurance. now we are seeing a whole bunch of republicans sort of opened to that bobby jindal will not be one of them. i think we are seeing movement on this and over time as governors see this is a free pot of money if they want it, i think we're going to see more. >> arkansas issued an example, too, you have a state that voted overwhelmingly, on the other side of the break with ve a former governor in a state that may be, probably right now is the next battleground over the expansion of medicaid. that's virginia because of what happened tuesday night in virginia. we will talk to the former governor there right after this. vo: it's that time of year again. medicare open enrollment. time to compare plans and costs. you don't have to make changes. but it never hurts to see if you can find better coverage, save money, or both. and check out the preventive benefits you get after the health care law. open enrollment ends december 7th. so now's the time. visit medicare.gov or call 1-800-medicare [ chicken caws ] [ male announcer ] when your favorite food starts a fight, fight back fast with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum tums! ♪ heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact save your coffee from the artificial stuff. ♪ switch to truvia. great tasting, zero-calorie sweetness... ...from the stevia leaf. how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ >> it is $21 billion. it's our money. we should be bringing it back. 29 states have already agreed to do it. it's just that it's fiscally irresponsible not to take it to those virginians that get life saving care. it's morally and socially the right thing to do. >> that is the incoming lt. gov. terry mcauliffe, here to talk more about how health care played a role in the 2013 governor's race in virginia, i want to bring in a former virginia governor jim gilmore, a republican. he joins us live from richmond right now. governor, appreciate the time this morning. so this was a pretty big campaign issue in your state where terry mcauliffe, you know, clearly said throughout this campaign he wants to expand medicaid, his opponent ran ads saying, don't vote for terry mcauliffe, he will expand it. now he has one, i know he has to deal with a republican majority in one of the state legislative chambers. do you expect they will have medicaid as a result of this election? >> well that's not really clear. let me say, everybody wants americans to have access to good health care t. real question is, is this the best way to do it? is this obama care the common sense approach and most people really think that it is not the best approach. now, look, governor. >> i don't mean to interrupt, from a state standpoint, we had the federal argument the federal level is obama dare right way? at the federal level, obama care is the law. what is being asked is to expand their rules and have that paid for by the federal government and slowly phase it out to 90%. ultimately, 90% is coming from the federal government for your state. >> well, first of all, this is a chart. this is what is happening in virginia right now. when i was governor, we were paying about $3 billion for medicaid, now it's up to $7 billion in the last ten years revenues have not kept up with that. it's increasingly expanding health care that will go on forever. when the states have to kick in that 10%, ten it's going to be a giant hole in the budget. that's the problem that people are foreseeing that will be the problem. that's the reality. the question is not whether we want toem people to have health care, is this sustainable? what is going to happen as this continues to expand and expand at the state level and more and more costs are built in because nothing controls costs in obama care. that continues to go on, then it's going to crowd out other things. where is the money going to come from for transportation? where is it coming from for education? where is it coming from for public safety? the answer, of course, is these are the first dollars that must be spent. if you have to do all this other great stuff, you raise taxes. people foresee this. they understand this, the problem is that obama care is not a good approach and the difficulty you got now is that because everybody says, well it's the law, so we all got to do it? well, it stops us from thinking of other innovative ways of providing health care. the real problem we got right now is that this thing is going to be a continuous expansion that goes on forever. one more thing the fact is that they're saying right now and governor elect mcauliffe who i just met with yesterday is focusing on the fact as all the other governors are, including governor kasich, we're going to get this big slug of money in here well, the federal government is bribing in the long run it will be catastrophic to the states. people across the country are saying, wait a minute, let's take a deep breath and find more innovative approaches. >> i just want to follow up on something you said. you say that everybody wants better health care an everybody wants more individuals covered, but we need to find more innovative ways to do that. if obama care is not right way what is your alternative? >> there are other things to talk about. there are self insurance programs for lower income employees are often provided health care programs by their companies. there are no know rate issive ways that you can afford through insurance. obama care will squeeze that out. you see companies saying we can't afford to do this and we will let them go onto the exchanges. of course, we know that technically they haven't been able to implement that. the real underlying problem is not computers t. real underlying problem is you are eliminating the private sector from providing health care coverage in a reasonable way because of this one sides fits all obama care problem. the problem is that this government controlled problem of this approach is squeezing everything else out. if you remember, one more point want to make, the most important thing is we got to get people into the work force so they can get benefits from their employers. >> that meejs we got to build up this commitment reduce unemployment and get excitement going in this economy again. there is nothing going on in washington to build up this economy and to create jobs and stop worrying about whether or not we will socialize medicine all across the country, we need to be putting innovative things in here to restore the economy, get people back to work again. >> governor, hi, jeremy peters here. i want to talk about something that may seem obscure to most people, but is important in the way we select our candidates for office. that's the convention system the republican party has in virginia. as you know, the convention process selected ken cuccinelli, a candidate that did not win and many more moderate voters felt was out of step with their views. that happened because the republican party decided to forego the process and put the decision making into the hands of a small group of conservative republicans. do you think the process needs to be opened up? >> that's a great question. the whole political system is on life support. maybe obama care can provide that for us. the real issue is that with a convention, you are talking about party, rank and file to come in and make this selection. with a primary that is the entire general public. at that point rich people get to come in and finance their particular candidates. it's out of the hands of the party, into the hands of the financiers. on the other hand, everybody gets to vote across the state. if we had party registration in virginia where you had democrats and republicans register as democrats and republican, then a primary system probably might make more sense and i think it's a case by case basis. so that both have pros and cons as to what works best. the question, are you going to put the selection process into the hands of the party rank and file or are you going to put it in the hand of people we don't even know that write big checks. >> governor, a question for you back on the medicaid expansions. >> hi, rachel. >> you mentioned the concern is the costs and if you expand medicaid to say everyone above a certain threshold of the poverty lean. i believe it's for individuals making around $15,000 a year and for families of three or four making around 32, then eventually the costs would grow, grow, grow and the costs would exceed what the states are getting from the government. my question is more immediate, when obama care was created t. point of the medicaid expansion, it was paid for by phaseing out a totally different part of med case. so the federal government right now is taking billions of dollars away from the states on another part of medicare. so i guess my question is, is that a concern? because that's also being taken away right now? if you don't expand it to get money for, you know, certain programs, aren't states just going to lose more money? >> well, in the short run they might. but in the long run the real issue we are dealing with here is that under all these programs, there has been no thought put into how you control costs and a lot of the states are looking at that right now. virginia is looking at it right now on a competition. governor elect mcauliffe might decide he wants to expand medicaid because he wants to expand that bribe cash supposed to be coming into the federal government. >> to pick up on rachel's point, specifically, this involves the hospitals in your state. the result of what rachel is talking about is the hospitals who right now care for people who don't have insurance get reimbursed by the federal government. the federal government anticipating that states like yours would take the medicaid money from the federal government, phased out that reimbursement. so right now the hospitals in your state and across the country are lining up. >> that i are begging governors to sign up for this program because they are in for a huge hit if they don't. doesn't that register with you what the hospitals are saying? >> it does, that means the federal government made a bad decision. they made a dra conyan decision which injuries providers. in the long run, this whole system here is designed to squeeze providers and that mean, of course, you are going to reduce the provision of health care, the supply of health care. and yet at the same time, you are exploding the number of people who are going to be demanding health care. simple economics tells you that means the costs will go through the ceiling and ultimately, somebody has got to pay for that. it's going to be the taxpayer. now, look, i'm not saying we don't want people to have access to health care. what i am saying is we got to find ways of getting the private enterprise system involved more people who are low wages working and getting health care is a benefit. at that point you are not throwing everything onto the government and the taxpayers. the federal government is using this major clout and say we will withdraw the money to pressure the states into a program. i want to say something to you. i was a governor and we always started with medicaid is unalterable. it's right here. this is a big thing. you can't change anything. that's your first dollars that have to be spentch within i was governor, it was about 12% of our budget. now it's closer to between 16 an 20% of our budget. when obama care kicks in, it will blow things out of the water. how are you going to educate children? deal with keeping the streets safe? these are questions, frankly, your panel today has to be willing to give answers to. i haven't heard them. >> jim gilmore. i appreciate the time this morning. we will be back after this. . >> you know, i waslyening to jim gilmore, who do you all have to say about the rising costs of medicaid? it reminds me of this rhetoric we haerd about food stanks you look at the number of people suddenly on food stamps, what could be causing that? could it be the fact that the economy melted down and the level of poverty and the level in this country that is in more demand than ever, maybe it has something to do with that. we will digest the conversations with dpof gilmore and where the battle for the expansion of medicare goes right after this. 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[ male announcer ] in stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy and more, swanson makes holiday dishes delicious. . >> so i think we've heard from governor gilmore, there is what you are hearing from republicans across the country with the are saying, force we will not expand. one thing i picked up in a lot of what he was saying there, alex, how the problems with the healthcare.gov right now and the problems with the creation of these exchanges are giving ammunition to republicans who want to resist expanding medicaid because they are able to frame it saying, why, look, why would we take part in this program failing at the federal level. it understands the importance of getting this thing up and running and getting it working. it is giving ammunition to the opposition. >> this is a massive law. from the beginning, republicans have tried to lump it altogether. because if you have one problem with one part of it like healthcare.gov, it translates to everything in the mind's eye of most voters. so i think it's critical. i think obama made a mistake. he was correct on the policy argument. politically, he did nothing to comfort his allies and gave more fodder to his critics who can say, loose, even obama is making a mistake here when he told chuck todd he was sorry. this is clearly a disaster on the website. but they should have seen this coming from the beginning. for the doubt about that. they have done a terrible job on the back end of hand himming the cleanup of the obama white house to overrespond too quickly without thinking through the political allocations. >> the critical way the website is working, from governors who are not running their own exchanges, that is a part of the reason, then the federal government has to take on the work of managing all of those state exchanges. there are a number of states where things are going quite well because the states are managing their own exchange. a white house official compared this to building a building in a war zone while people are throwing bombs at you, the work required to put this website together was tremendously difficult. then you add on the aspect of working in a tense political cloimt. so it's a little disingenuous to criticize the way the website is working when part of the reason it is having problems and granted the administration did not do a good job of setting this up to make shower they have the mechanisms in place to handle the single technological challenges the administration has to face. within that, they have the added challenge of taking on work they were going to do. >> kentucky the democratic governor of kentucky forced through the expansion of medicaid and the creation of these exchanges in his state. there are statistics from kentucky where this seems to be working, over 32,000 enrollees in medicaid, 5,000 enrolled in the qualified health care plan. so there is an example of a state that said, hey, we are going to be proactive. we will do this. we dpoot result here. >> in arkansas, you saw i believe 6,000 people in the first few weeks. i think what the problem that the republican party faces on litigating this issue too much a problem they've had kind of all along, including back into the last presidential election, which is a problem of tone and what they've wrestled with is striking that right tone. they need to realize the public does nots will like this law necessarily as much as they do. we saw this with the irs scandal an benghazi, some of the republican strategists are worried about reigning in members of congress and making, a real effort to make the party sound like it's not being to shrill on this, if they, are they will lose the strategic advantage they have with this very unpopular law. >> maybe the ship has sailed, too, i wonder. one of these lucky panelists is about to become a panelist on up against the clock two. of them are. it's a very special not to be missed edition of america's fastest growing abbreviated made for saturday politics and/or current events quiz show. that's coming up next. 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(coffee be♪ng poured into a cup.) save your coffee from the artificial stuff. switch to truvia. great tasting, zero-calorie sweetness from the stevia leaf. [ herbie ] no doubt about it brent, a real gate keeper. here's kevin in the nissan sentra. lamb to the slaughter. mom's baked cookies but he'll be lucky to make it inside. and here's the play. oh, dad did not see this coming. [ crowd cheering ] now if kevin can just seize the opportunity. he's seen it. it's all over. nothing but daylight. yes i'd love a cookie. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the nissan sentra. now get one fifty nine per month lease on a two-thousand thirteen nissan sentra. ♪ >> every week on the show, we put three contestants up against the clock. a test of their current events accumen and buzzer pressingable. one of today's contestants, you may recognize her mellissa harris-per kwli has been documenting every arduous strength building test of her journey to contestant's row. way to go. >> i'm ready to go, coach. [ music playing ] lbj in 1964. those up against the clock podium. ha. yes. there it is. i'm ready. where is my coach? >> how much? >> downgrade a minus 3 plus. >> a tidbit. >> mitt romney. >> all right. you are ready. >> that is very impressive stuff. clearly, she is different getting herself in excellent quiz show shape. don't forget, she will be facing two fierce competitors, going through their own growling regimen. sit tight. we are mere minutes away from from what it takes to be crowned up against the clock champion. that's right after this. . >> live from studio 3a in rockefeller center usa, it's time for up against the clock. our first contestant, originally from brookline, massachusettes the birthplace of jfk, mike wallace and michael did yukakis from santa fe new mexico, home of the minor league juggernaut the santa bay fuego, say hello to alex. today's contestant from new orleans, louisiana, home of the new orleans pelicans, it's mellissa harris-perry. here's the host of up against the clock, steve kornacki. >> oh, thank you, studio audience, thank you everyone for tuneing in for another thrill packed edition of up against the clock. melissa today's celebrity guest contestant. you foe the rules by now and at hope, wrong answers will cost you. there are a few instant bonuses scattered throughout these questions. as always, studio audience, i implore you, please, no outbursts, our contestants demand absolute concentration with that, i will ask you, contestants, are you ready? . we will start with 100 second on the clock in the 100 point round. we will go, 25 years ago yesterday, george h.b. bush was elected president over what -- >> dukakis. michael dukakis the defeated candidate. the next question, 3 billion, $2.5 billion or doctor 2 billion the white house released a report showing the shutdown cost how much in employee back pay, alex? >> c, $2 billion. >> doctor 2 billion is correct in back pay, try again with alex and mellissa. it took multiple calls and wrong numbers before vice president joe biden. >> incorrect. it took multiple calls before joe bind replaced a call to newly elected mayor. >> boston. >> according to city officials in boston, this red sox slugger came in third place on write-in votes absolutely no idea. >> encorrect. david ortiz. >> 100 point question the grandson of which former american president announced this week. >> jimmy carter correct, his granddon now running for governor of go. . 100 point question, new jersey governor chris christy made his prime time acting debut. >> nbc michael j. fox i don't know, michael j. fox show? >> it is. 100 points for mellissa. we will finish the question, after being declared the winner tuesday night ken cuccinelli refused to report what custom mary. >> call the winner. >> he refused to call the winner, terry mcauliffe. we go to the end of the round. mellissa, the early lead with 300 points, alex with 200. moving up from negative territory with that correct answer, but now things start to get a littlewhile wild because we move to the 200 point round. again, you are penalized. you get big points, 100 second on the clock. first 200 point question is this, sporting a nifty pair of glasses, this former candidate returned to iowa on thursday and said, if i was making a plan for 2016, coming to iowa early an often would be. >> rand paul. >> encorrect. >> wrong. >> alex. >> rick perry is direct correct. big twin there, a reader revolt participated the departmenture of guns and ammo after they published an editorial in favor of what, alex? >> gun control. >> 200 more points for alex. politico reported this week that this nationally ambitious tea party senator recently had private meetings with news corps rupert murdock and fox news. >> rand paul. >> that is correct. >> 200 points for mellissa. back with this. nine years after his death, a group of swiss scientists reported this week. >> arafat. >> yes, yasser arafat. poison was found in his remains. 200 point question, many believe the political demise of ross perrot was triggered 20 years ago this week when he delivered an erratic performance in a prime time debate. >> larry king, al gore? >> correct. >> cnn. >> incorrect. we have to deduct 200 points. finish the question. an erratic performance in a prime time debate against whom? no calls, time. al gore. the sitting vice president on larry king live. that brings us to the end of the 200 point round. alex has stormed into the lead with 600 points, maura now with 200. mellissa with 100. can you see a very volatile gain, though, especially as you introduce the ph.d. round. these are 300 point questions. this is where champions are made. we will put 100 second on the clock t. crucial final round begins with this. illinois senator mark kirk teamed up on thursday with what conservative democratic senator to introduce legislation to delay the obama care mandate one 84. >> alex. >> joe manchin of west virginia is correct. 300 point question, plans to create america's 51st state are on hold after six conservative counties on tuesday rejected a non-binding plan to succeed? >> colorado. >> colorado is correct or 300 point. instant bonus. >> had the if you state been created, what would the state's name have been? >> there is no penalty for getting this wrong? i have no idea. >> the answer is colorado. when the employment non-discrimination act, which prohibits employment of lesbians, gays, transexuals was being debated on the state floor this woke, one senator spoke publicly against it, who was it? >> david individualer. >> encorrect. >> time, dan coax of any. 300 point question. john runon, a second term republican from south jersey announced this week, we will not seek re-election proposal played professional football for what monita franchise? >> the jets. >> the jets is incorrect. >> the eagles. correct. 300 point question, in a concession speech tuesday night, this defeated candidate said, quote the onslaught of betrayal from our own political party was at fault for her loss. >> barbara bueno 300 point, correct. it gives maura 800 short of the 1,200 alex racked up. >> that makes alex for today's up against the clock champion. bill wolf. tell him what he's won. >> as our champion, will you have your name printed in exquisite sharpee, you get to take the trophy home and show it off to family, friends and school children for one woke. you will receive an appearance this coming week on msnbc's in the the cycle." you get to play in our jackpot bonus round for the grand prize of a $50 gift certificate to little pony, the most authentic eating and drinking experience while you are there, get a tattoo or a piercing. back to you, steve. >> congratulation, we have unfinished business for that $50 gift certificate. here is a jackpot bonus question. fine years ago yesterday the republican revolution of 1994 vaulted the gop to the house of representatives for the first time in four years and made newt gingrich speaker. for your bonus, what democrat did gingrich succeed as speaker? >> jim wright. >> incorrect. it was tom foley, i'm sorry. the $50 gift certificate is safe for another week, alex, you have one of our highest points of all time. it puts you in a tie for second place maura with 800 points, you may still be in contention, mellissa, it was a fast start. you had an aggressive buzzer style. >> yes. >> you knew about the cnn debate. unfortunately, we didn't finish the question first. you will not leave empty hand. we have the home edition. thank you for playing today. we will see you next week for another up against the clock after this, the real show begins again. my customers can shop around-- . >> there are a lot of good explanations how george w. bush became president. the fatigue over scandals, lousy campaigns over al gore. i have a different theory. i think it's all because of the he coumb. let me take you to the fall of 1994, two years after george h. bush was bounced from office after two terms. two sons were launching careers of their own. george w. was a few-years-older the word was jeb was the one to watch. sharp intellect. someone who could dazzle the crowd. george w. he never done much. goofy, awkward, empty. rumor had it the old man saw jeb as the future president. the son who would go on to reclaim the white house for the family. w. seemed to be acting out a revenge fantasy t. they lam pooned his father at the 1988 democratic convention, she said he had been put with a silver foot in his mouth. beyond that, no one seemed too sure why he was running. in the home stretch, it looked like the public saw it. in texas, the ratings stood at 60%. voters hit a soft spot for the plain spoken incumbent. w. was the underdog. but in florida, it was a different story t. state's business lobby released a poll taken in mid-october. jeb bush 48%, lawton chiles 43% other polls showed jeb bush ahead. lawton shotz, a folksy yarn spinner 64-years-old, he looked at least ten years older than that. time was catching up. when the poll came out, it looked like it was all over. jeb is columnist wrote is charging down the home stretch like wildfire, some closest to chiles say they expect him to be coasted and are looking for job opportunities. lawton chiles was nothing if not wiley, when he got the chance to stand face to face with jeb on the same stage days before the election. he knew better than to make it a contrast between a democrat and a republican, a liberal and a conservative. he made it about culture. the floridians never get their way of life. he made it about, here's that word again, he made it about the he coumb. >> my mama told me sticks and stones will break my bones, names will never hurt me. let me tell you. one other thing about the old liberal, the old he coon walks just before the light of day. . >> the he coon according to real florida lor is a tough ornery raccoon with his might and wit defends all the other ones that will do them hard, lawton chiles pitch perfectly claiming the he coon mant el and polished son of the yankee arising tocracy and privilege -- a riscracy. and he ran with it. he took to wearing a coon 16 cap as he barn stormed florida in the findal hours of the campaign. you could feel the bush lead melting away. 1994 was a devastating year for democrats everywhere, florida in particular. a massive mid-term backlash, a backlash of the so-called angry white males against bill clinton and the national democratic party. the angry florida voters granted one exemption for one democrat who showed them that he got them. that he knew them. >> that he was one of them they re-elected the he coon. >> what time is it? it's just before down at the same moment that lawton chiles was declaring victory, though, a few hundred miles west, that same national republican tide was hitting texas. this one came with no special dispensations for folksiness. anne richards put up her best fight, a wha wail of a fight t. tide was too strong t. state was aching to vote against bill clinton's party, that meant a voting for george w. bush, voting for the bush brother who was never supposed to when that year. >> what texans can dream texans can do. >> so there it was, election night '94. the bush brother who was supposed to when that night and take that havingtory and use it as a springboard to a bush white house restoration was derailed. instead of going national, he spent the next years mending fences in florida, winning over the locals, to make sure the next time he ran there would be no, he coon moment. it did work. jeb got elected governor. by that point, he had been lapped by his big brother, the bush brother who was never supposed to win in the first place. because of that weird twist of fate in 1994, it was w who got to lead one of america's biggest states, flirting with presidential politics. he ba imthe vehicle, the profoundly unlikely vehicle. on the night jeb won florida in 1998, w. was getting reelected in texas by a huge margin, 38 points. so it was his plan. this was carl reserve os plan, run up the score in '98. make eye browseing inrates with latinos, with voters who had been flocking to president clinton and flocking away from the republican party. 1998 was a generally miserable year for the republican party. you probably seen the recent polls after last month's government shutdown that show the gop favorable score at an all time low. the only other time they were in that same ballpark was the end of 1998. that's when a newt gingrich led gop house that had already shut down the government and was unpopular that, has defied public opinion and led an impeachment drive against president clinton. >> that produced a loss for republicans in 1998, the first time since james monroe's presidency, they failed to gain seats in the second term mid-term election. this was the context of george bush's victory. it was the biggest bright spot. maybe the only bright spot in a very dark hour for the republican party. by that point they had lost the 'necks election to him. lost the '98 mid-terms, it was losing the impeachment fight. they were sick of losing and it was hungry to when again. it was nothing particularly ideological about it. when george bush talking up what he had done in texas, started talking up what he called compassionate conservatism, in an active way than dogma prescribed, he found a receptive audience in the party. finally he can communicate empathy to americans the way bill clinton did. after all, look what he had done in texas. this was how bush was able to spend 1999 creating the most formidable machine in the history of modern prun politics. fundraising figures were reported for the second quarter of the year. his advantage was so staggering, so shocking that it set in motion the demise of not one, not two, not three, not four, not five but six of his interparty foes before a single ballot was cast. bush did end up facing the spirited fight from john mccain in 2000 t. outcome was never in much doubt. party elets were so over wellingly on bush's side, he was able to define himself as the candidate of purity and mccain's calling card was campaign finance reform, a plan loathed by interest groups to portray him as the apostate. this upped mcclain's popularity and that alienated him more from the republican base and that cemented bush's hold on the nomination t. race was over in the first week of march, 2000. in ten months, one supreme court ruling later, george w. bush was president. all of this is the backdrop for what happened with new jersey governor chris christie this week. after what christie hopes will happen in the next three years. because it's the bush model, the george w. bush model that christie wants to emulate on the surface, the setup is almost the same. this is a low moment t. destructive impact of the shutdown and the party's general reliance on tea party rhetoric and tactics as of late helped opinion shapers. blair bare in the blue state, the state that last elected a republican to the senate more than 40 years ago, there in that very blue state is a republican governor who racked up more than 60% of the vote, nearly a third of the black vote who outpolled his female democratic opponent by 12 moints points among women. christie can say the same thing bush did 15 years ago. our party is in a bad place, but i know how to win. the republican party is also much different now than it was yooen 15 years ago. it's a twins of how his presidency ended, the rise of barak obama and the agenda the right regard is an affront to freedom. to explain how this could happen, how americans could go to the polls and willfully elect a left of center government, the right decided it had to blame george w. bush. the basic idea, that bush's compassionate conservatism ended up amounting to reckless big government. it gave conservatism a bad name that then led a confused electorate to turn to obama. it is out of this conviction the tea party was formed. both to fight obama and the republicans who would enable bush and might enable a future bush. the attitude of the republican party 15 years ago was like the old al davis saying, just win, baby. but today purity is just as important. maybe more important to the tea party right. this is what maiblg makes christie's path to the gop nomination far trickier than bush is. he is going to have to satisfy a critical chunk of that tea party right that he's one of them or at least he's close enough to being one of them and check off his name anyway. there is a school of thought is an impossible tavenlth christie literally embraced the president at the most sensitive moment in last year's presidential campaign a. charge he single handedly expanded the white house by four years could make christie a total non-starter with too many tea party years. i tend to take a less fatalistic view. look closer, you will see he is not a moderate in the way we once thought of northeast republican moderates. he's pro-life. he is staunchly anti-tax. he is happy to war with public employee unions. he is happy to veto gun control bills and vital public transportation projects. there is also this trump card. personality. now i know many people loathe christie. plenty also appreciate his swagger, especially when you are talking about the republican universe. the reason christie is a national candidate is he will lose his temper at the wrong moment, an ugly explosion that becomes his identity that sinks his campaign. the flip side though is that he is good at this game. he is a rare politician who can talk to a room of people who disagree with them an win him over. they warm up to him. laugh at his jokes, then without realizing it, they find themselves working backwards in their minds to tell them, come to think of it, it wouldn't be crazy to support it. i have seen him do this in rooms of skeptical conservatives and i absolutely could see him doing this in rooms of skeptical iowa republicans two years from now after what happened this week, how much does chris christie have to worry about the tea party and how much of the republican party? we will dive into that right after this. make a monday mornin' feel like a friday afternoon with some nestle toll house morsels. let's close our laptops and open our ovens. these things don't bake themselves. we have to bake them for one another. we can bake the world a better place one toll house cookie at a time. nestle. good food, good life. how do you react when you first see this? it looks kind of like a dancer? reality check: some 4g lte coverage maps don't really look like maps. seems like maybe... a bunch of berries. this one feels more empty. what do you see here? clearly a picture of the united states. check the map. verizon's superfast 4g lte is the most reliable, and in more places than any other 4g network. i should switch to verizon immediately. that's powerful. verizon. the lg 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[ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. . >> i'll tell you about chris christie's political future and how big a factor the tea party will play in his front runner status. we have policy reporter from politico.com reigning up against the clock alex and jeremy peters politics reporter for the new york times. so, you know, i'm curious what you guys make sort of coming out of this week with chris christie the whole sort of debate is, yes, he is clearly electable in a blue state. he would be the worst nightmare if he were an opponent. did you see anything this week in these results? do you see things percolating right now that answers that question? could he get through a republican primary? >> i think in response to his victory, we got a lot of clues to that. you saw the right wing republicans in different ways being critical of him. going on the air and calling him a moderate, which is a very inside baseball way of slamming him for those looking for a candidate farther on the right. you see some clues in that. i think what they're suffering from is they are dealing with the fear of romney again, a conservative who is not conservative in his heart. he doesn't believe those things. he was for gun control before he was against it. he vetoed same-sex marriage and gave up the fight in the courts. i think that's their big concern. the same things that make him marketable in a general election could serve to be liabilities to him when it comes to getting a nomination. >> i try to differentiate in my head, i look back at the past year, clearly there are the hard line conservatives in the party you give the slightest hint you may be in 50 years be for gay marriage, that i will never vote for you and rick santorum will win 11 states, there are still enough states out there for romney to get through and there is still a big enough path for mitt romney. i'm trying to figure out, has that path narrowed in the last year or is it sort of the same dynamic? >> i think it's narrowed. i think if there is anywhere the establish him and big donors can win, they can held sway in a presidential nomination race. will you have a crowded field on the right with maybe ted cruz and rand paul and others, so i think there is a big chance he can come up the middle. not to mention the fact that governors tend to do better than senators. mitt rom fiwas a moderate who attacked what i to the right. christie is a conservative at heart on unions, on climate change, on gay rights. sandy is sort of a mant el put on him. it doesn't accurately describe who he is. he can take that mant el. it might upset the base. the donor class aren't fooled by that, they're clamouring to enter 2012. i don't think this field will be that much stronger as a lot of people expected. >> would we call him in the term moderate is attached to chris christie reflectively. if it hadn't been for sandy and praiseing and embrace obama at the height of that, would we be calling him a moderate? his record otherwise, i remember he was the tea party hero with his first two years in office, with the ending if millionaire's tax, is it a function of saying nooigs nice things about president obama? >> i don't think it is. if you look at the other policy, social conservatives made a big fuss when he outlaws therapy, what they called procureing gay youngsters. >> the parity is there. the guns thing, mentioning not specifically legislation but saying guns should be controlled more in new jersey. obviously, he sort of backed off from that. that was what he sort of did at first. taxes, it's interesting you mentioned this, yes, the millionaire tax expired under him. he didn't knock that down. it expired. >> the legislature tried to extend it. he retoed it. >> there is an interesting undercurrent there. he ran in 2009 on a platform of tax relief, property tax relief. property taxes in new jersey are $8,000 on average, first in the country. highest in the country. they have a high income tax and competent tax. he came in, in 2009 and said, this is awful. i want to expand tax relief for the middle class. he specifically a few months after he was elected got rid of a whole bunch of tax deductions and credits targeted toward the middle class that effectively increase taxes on a whole bunch of people. i'm talking hundreds of thousands of people. i talked to a few people in new jersey about this. you don't really hear much about it in the media right now. but this is something that anything that smells like a tax hike is going to be something that conservatives will attack him for in a gop primary. i could see this being something that could potentially hinder him. he promised to expand credits to scale back taxes and even the opposite, actually. >> this was the day after the election, a day after chris christie got reelected. he held a press conference, he's feeling good about himself, listen to what what he had to say that day. >> people that think that folks vote based on a checklist, only special interest groups do that. only special interest groups do that. when they put together a checklist, they see how many boxes they check. real voters don't do that. role voters get a feeling for somebody. it's emotional, visceral type of thing in my experience and they determine in their gut, can i trust this person? are they telling many ethe truth? not do they agree with me on every issue. >> so he's absolutely right. >> i want to make a very unpolitical science argument here and any political scientists out there will tell me it's ridiculous. i think personality does matter. i think the personality chris christie has is so different than a guy like mitt romney. i can see chris christie going into a group of party years. hey, he didn't fight gay marriage hard enough. i think he's that rare plichlths he's got the personality, where he can walk in that room. they can be like i don't like this guy. i want to get behind this guy. they rationalize backwards in their mind to get will. >> i can see voters in other states say other than new jersey responding very differently. so i would be careful about drawing too many conclusions about the electorate in new jersey and applying those to the greater primary elect terror rat. he may have won with hispanics and women overwhelmingly in new jersey. i don't know that that's going to extend to the rest of the country like it did, would that apply in ohio? i don't know that it would apply in ohio. up are talking about a state that elect rick santorum. >> you mean peoria? >> to your point, he got a third of democrats in the state, two-thirds of moderates. two-third of independents. let's look at democrats, you would presume they are against the policy ideas. they voted with him. there was a connection with him. when you talk about political skill, something that you mentioned, he is a very skillful politician. a lot comes down to people don't out reach too. he does that well? democrats in new jersey, they discovered this. they discovered it nationally. you can find all of these issues where he is out of step with where the majority of public opinion is. how much does that personality override it? democrats did not figure out new jersey and would have to figure out nationally. you know the basic debate over social security, one side says cut it. private advertise it. the other side says keep at this time way it is, but there is a growing group of democrats that want to blow off the tomorrows of that debate. we will tell you how, that is next. . 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[ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.® . >> i will keep social security in a lock box and that pays down the national debt. i think it should say in a lock box. i'll tell you this, i will veto anything that takes money out of social security for privatization or anything else other than social security. >> that is one of more satirized moments. the response fit right into the egrowing narrative about hit stiff persona. but the lock box the vice president invoked seven times in that debate perfectly summed up the position on social security for the last half century, don't cut it, don't private advertise it. don't touch it. more and more democrats are saying they do want to touch it to change the basic terms of debhat of what's been called the third rail of american politics. we will talk to one of those democrats right after this. we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness if you qualify, and new car replacement, standard with our auto policies. so call liberty mutual at... today. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? ♪ [ male announcer ] laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor [announcer] ...every wish for a bed that could feel perfect under every part of your body... 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[ engine revs ] . >> the debate over social security has been consistent for the last half century, on the right, they say cut it or private advertise it. this entitlement is the senior population explodes and life expectancies rise. >> while younger workers on a voluntary basis to take some of their own money and set it aside in the form of a personal savings account. >> i think it's very important that we reform our entitlement programs. my friends, we are not going to be able provide the same benefit for present day workers that present day retirees have today. >> it is a monstrous lie. it is a poenz scheme to tell our kids 25 or 30-years-old today, you are paying into a program that's going to be there. >> on the left, liberals tend to say, don't touch social security. preserve it. it's a vital part of the safety net. it will be solvent for years to come. >> we will protect social security. i will not private advertise it. i will not cut the benefits. >> i think for us to act like social security is in crisis is a republican trap. >> i don't believe it add aspeny to the deficit. it shouldn't be a victim of deficit reduction within it has nothing to do with the deficit. >> occasionally, they give voice to social security and there are plenty of democrats who express the more conservative view. a, the debate goes, that's the limit of it. those are the two polls cutting it or private advertising it on one endsh leaving it alone, preserving it on the other, which can be a problem for liberals, any compromise, any meeting point between those two polls will entail some reduction in benefits. i saw this when president obama offered chained cti, a recalculation of the social benefits formula that would have resulted in lower payouts during the grand bargain talks of 2011 and again in his budget this spring. so this is why there are now some progressive democrats in congress trying to expand the terms of debate. this week, sharod brown of ohio became the late toast put his name to increase social security benefits. that's right. in an era defined by belt tightening, liberals are trying to provide retirees with bigger monthly checks. as more democrats sign on, we are seeing the beginnings to change the social security from not wanting to preserve it but to expanding it. these are the kind of long-term efforts that can take years but redefine the agenda of a political party. at the table with us now is congressman jerry nather of new york. he is one of 39 co-sponsors of that legislation. thank you for joining us. we laid it out there. this is a debate we heard a hundred times, democrats saying, let's preserve it. make your case for why that debate is bogus and we node to be talking about expanding it? >> well the trust fund is 2.7 trillion. it dlb 2.4 trillion in 2025. there is no prospect of them running short in 2033 or any foreseeable future. number one, number two, we have always said retirement ought to be a three legged stool, based on pension, savings and social security. two of those legs are basically destroyed. in the private sector, there are almost no more push, a push we have to oppose, nonetheless, it's there and savings, two-third of retirees have had virtually no savings. it's like 30,000 in its 402k. with the average social security check being $40,000 a 84, if that's it, our sflrs going to be retiring to poverty. in fact, the latest statistics show that while the overall participation rate in the labor force is down, for people over 65, it is up. >> that moans people can't afford to retire. so we have to increase social security in order to make up for the collapse of the private sector pension system and the failure of the 401k savings. >> what you are up against first of all is a lot of knee jerk conventional wis do. first of all, you are up against knee jerk conventional wisdom that affects your own party. we have the example of president obama who three times has put the chained cti out there of reduceing social security benefits. where among your fellow democrats, where does that instinct come from when we are having fiscal talks, where does that come from to put social security on the table? >> it comes from the president, basically, there is almost a unanimous opposition to that. 100 some odd democrats have signed a letter saying, no way, know how. i don't know why the president puts this on the table. i think it's a bad mistake to do that. it's totally unnecessary, also. as i've said, the social security, they're reported as quote gospel and come out and say we will have a shortfall of fund. that's the immediate forecast. which has always been wrong. the optimistic forecast, with i that put out every year, the optimistic forecast, which generally has been right over the last 30 years, which is never quoted by the press, says social security fluctuated for the future we can see. >> i wonder if you are talking about with president obama, as we all know, the communication ween the white house and members of congress is not always the greatest. so what do you see the president doing to reach out to congressional democrats to forge a solution on things? >> not much. >> that's actually what i was going to ask the president as the leader of the democratic party has proposed change cpi, which would obviously scale back the annual increases that seniors receive. i just don't see where this would go anyway, yes, people are talking about it right now. but harry reid, the senate majority loader would not put something on the senate floor for senate democrats to vote for if it goes against what the president wants. right now. we are in -- >> harry reid said he wouldn't put a changed cpi on the floor, even if the president wanted it. the bulk of the democratic caucus in the house wouldn't consider it. the fact is, it's entirely theoretical because the republicans getting increased revenues, in any deal, with i they will never do. >> down there is a political clax, it's the dirty word the word for clinton in the '90s, trianglation? do you think there is a trianglation as a part of we will go to the left by asking for more revenue. we will see we are to the middle on the entitlement? >> i don't know. i certainly hope that isn't the calculation. if that were the calculation, it would be foolish politically. every poll shows that overwhelmingly, the people do not want reductions in social security benefits or medicare benefits. overwhelmingly. if god forbid we would do this, it would be a terrible proceed to candidates if 2014 or 2016. it's politically just foolish. so why put it out there? i don't know. >> congressman, it seems to be politically as steve was talking about, this seems to be changing over the long term, moving the poll, expanding a bit t. white house has mostly demanded pretty much that democrats fall in loin on every piece of legislation. are they starting to understand the way the tea party opened up the right wing, liberal democrats should do the same? >> well, i don't know the white house has demanded democrats fall in line. are they understanding? maybe. i don't know. the fact is we are doing this. it is essential because we are seeing increaseingly that the other two retirement stools have collapsed and people cannot be expected to retire on 14 or 15 or $16,000 a year and then have a changed cpi, with i is framplgly a dishonest calculation. it understates inflation. frankly the current cpi also under states inflation. we got to increase it because the cpi, the consumer price index is fixed by saying what is a bread basket, what is a basket that people buy? how much do you spend on education, health care, et cetera? okay. how much does health care increase in costs, et cetera in the fact what the cpi says if stake gets too expensive, you switch to hamburger. that's, in other words, figuring in a reduction in your standard of living into the calculation, which i think is just wrong. now, instead, what we should lock at is a different measure him the borough of labor statistics is developing, that says, okay. for seniors, they spend more on health care than 30-year-olds. they spend less on education than 30-year-olds. we should have a senior cpi which state inflation is heavier than the current cpi does. even that wouldn't satisfy the problem. >> yes, that's one of the issues, the opposite of changed cpi, moving it in the opposite direction. i got to say, this is one of the reasons, you talk about 2016 sometimes, this is one of the reasons, if you are a democrat, this is an issue you care about. you hope there are lots of candidates out there. >> that could create the pressure for candidates to make this a priority if they get in office. it's one of the ways i'm going to justify talking about 2016 sometimes. i want to thank congressman jerry nather. i appreciate it. we do not have a winner in one important race because of some incredible sleuthing by numbers experts on twitter. it's a wild story. we will tell it to you next. 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days later when they said a counting error gave him 20 more votes than he received and rick santorum had been the winner there. that was before officials admitted entire precincts were missing, which led to weeks later to a startling declaration from the iowa republican party. mitt romney hadn't one the caucuses after all. rick santorum had. mistakes happen all the time it's only within they are close we realize how flawed and imperfect and human our election system is. that's the back drop playing out in virginia. we know there is a new governor elect, terry mcauliffe and a governor elect and we have absolutely no idea who will win the other race for statewide office, the race for attorney general. current republican general ken cuccinelli lost tuesday's governor's election. in that job, attorney general is important in virginia for a lot of reasons, including the bake fact it's an established launching pad for governor officially the republican ag candidate is in the lead by about 1,200 votes. those results do not tell the full story. the full story involves my kind of people, numbers obsessed political sauvants. two in particular, dave wasserman an ben trivet goes by the twitter hand him not larry sabtow. they return fairfax county. it seemed to them like not enough ab tent see ballots were counted. after they noticed, a local congressman picked up the scent, too. here's what they say happened. you can usually expect a certain percentage of people to actually use them to turn them in, to vote. fairfax county, that return rate is 88%. of the 8,000 absentee billion lots in the 8th congressional district, they were requested if fairfax only half were counted. a lot less than 88%. election officials say they believe almost 2,000 votes when unaccounted. they aren't sure yet what the right number actually is the big question is whether those numbers will be enough to take the race for attorney general. if mark herring becomes the next attorney general, that would give them the non-segregation sweep of the top three offices in both u.s. seats for the commonwealth since ever. it's never happened before. so it's interesting to me because the attorney general in virginia, ted cuccinelli gave us a case study in why it is important from a policy whole o idea began with ken cuccinelli. ken cuccinelli used that to make himself a rising republican national star, to become the nominee for virginia, so obviously the outcome of this race is important. it makes a symbolic statement if democrats win it. it's shocking, we shouldn't be shocked, we've seen this before, but we have no idea who's won this race. >> and the attorney general's race is really where a lot of the attention focused towards the end of the race as it became clear that ken cuccinelli was probably not going to be able to fill it out. republicans shifted a lot of money into the race, democrats did, too. one basically predicted exactly how it went down. mcauliffe underperform manager the polls. the attorney general's going to be the squeaker and that's going to be the important one because you can attribute the cuccinelli to -- attribute lieutenant governor to e.w. jackson, hardly a qualified candidate. but this is going to be a real test of the parties and a big signal of where the regime is headed. >> election officials have said clearly there's something wrong here. they were expects more than 7,000 of these ballots to come back and they only got like 5200. so i think now it's going to be quite a bit longer before we know the results because we're almost certainly looking at a recount, it could end up in the courts as both sides decide which votes they want in and which they want out. it could be a while before we know the outcome. >> we're talking about it coming down to fairfax county, northern virginia, and that's where the election of that story was. big early lead for ken cuccinelli, then that northern friendly blue part of the state comes in and changes everything. we'll find out if the absentees there are enough to give the democrats what would be a historic sweep. what do we know how that we didn't know last week? our panel will tell you after this. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp. losing thrusters. i need more power. give me more power! [ mainframe ] located. ge deep-sea fuel technology. a 50,000-pound, ingeniously wired machine that optimizes raw data to help safely discover and maximize resources in extreme conditions. our current situation seems rather extreme. why can't we maximize our... ready. ♪ brilliant. let's get out of here. warp speed. ♪ the holidays can be wan especially difficult time. everything's different now. sometimes i feel all alone. christmas used to be my favorite. i just don't expect anything. what if santa can't find me? to help, sleep train is holding a secret santa toy drive. bring your gift to any sleep train, and help keep the spirit of the holidays alive. not everyone can be a foster parent, but anyone can help a foster child. what our guests know now that they didn't when the week we gan. raich snell. >> these. sweets. >> yes. >> food and drug administration this week announced that it's going to be banning transfats over the next few years. so things like this, things like your doughnuts, they're going to start tasting a little different because the food industry is going to have to adjust. basically, transfats, they found more and more research is, you know, awful for high blood pressure, and if it's disavowed in foods they think that this could potentially prevent 7,000 heart attacks a year. 7,000 deaths a year. 20,000 heart attacks. >> but it's so delicious. >> i know. >> i learned that female spies are better at spotting surveillance, people following them, based on their socks thanks to a great story in mother jones about women in the cia. >> interesting. >> yesterday a teenager in detroit was laid to rest, 19 years old, killed a week ago. she got to a car accident, went door to door seeking help and the person inside the homes came out with a shotgun and shot her in the face. no charges have been filed, no arrests made. police continue to investigate. police say that the person who shot her believed she was trying to break into the home. we'll wait and see what happens with that story. >> jeremy. >> when the senate took a historic step this weekend and passed a bill that would outlaw sexual discrimination, the pivotal votes, three of them were republicans. i think that's something nobody would have expected five years ago. >> interesting. i learned that melissa harris-perry is a great sport. she took time off from her show today to come down and play up against the clock. in the training interview, i hope you saw it. check it out online. it was hilarious. check it out. my thanks to rachel, alex, maura, and jeremy. thanks for getting "up." tomorrow, it has been over a century and a half since the wind party took america by storm and gave andrew jackson fits, then vanished, until this week, when a man calling himself a wig won an election. who he is, how he won. is he still furious with andrew jackson? we'll introduce you to him and talk to america's only wig elected official tomorrow. next, melissa harris-perry. see you tomorrow at 8:00. thanks for getting "up." reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! 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"lean in," women, work and the will to lead. it does not go on sale until tuesday, but the book and the author facebook coo cheryl sandberg are everywhere. this is sandberg on the cover of this week's "time" magazine, and she h be sitting down with 60 minutes in an interview to promote the book. next month, it will be featured in "cosmopolitan" magazine, and reviewed this weekend by "the new york times", and the most rekre recent of the most several mentions of sandberg's book that has received in the paper and a record, and the first was a february story that sparked the back lash and the back lash to the backlash to the, you know, the backlash as the heart of the debate is the central idea of sandberg's book that among the real deeply entrenched barriers to women's success in the workplace, there is another impediment standing in their progress, women, themselves. sandberg's advice, don't leave before you leave is to urge women away from making choices that can derail or diminish the career pros spekts before they get off of the ground. in the book, she writes, we hold ourselves back in ways of big and small and by lacking self-confidence and not raising our hands when we are pulling back and when we should be le leaning in. we ternlize the negative messages and lower our expectations of what we can achie achieve. that is not bad as far as advice goes, but maybe not so good either according to the critics who are considering the source, because this self-help book for the average working woman comes from a professional woman who is anything but average. sandberg is one of "fortune" magazine's most 50 powerful women in business and she holds the reins on a $66 billion tech company and millionaire many times over. she is privileged and elite and out of touch say the voices of one side of the debate, but what about the women who have been robbed of the structural inequalities to even make choices about the career, but others see values in the sandberg's decisions. and that brings me back to mary in florida, because 24 is not a question of either/or, but both/and, and you see that mary tyler moore and florida evans are not at opposition of each other at the polar ends of this debate, but close enough to one another to share important common ground and opening up a space for women to lean into their lives makes it understand for women to understand how to intersect to make it mutually beneficial for all women, but it equally is recognizing the challenges for mary and nearly impossible for florida like wage disparities and the child care and the health care and harassment and discrimination, and women will only be able to lean so far. at a table, women who know what they are talking about. katrina van der hubl, and valerie core is a filmmaker, and fellow at auburn cemetery, and joy reid, editor of grio.com, and also the ceo of cinnabon who operating franchises in 22 count countries. all right. what do we make of the book and the debate it has sparked. >> well, for women, it is also difficult, because as you said when a wealthy woman who comes from a certain privileged class writes a book sort of telling other women how to run their careers, it is easy to roll your eyes and say it does not apply to me, especially if you are a person out in the world not able to make decisions and it was yahoo sclm who made built the day care next to her office and telling other women they cannot work from their home. it does come across as looking truncated. i think that a lot of what s sheryl sandberg is saying is true, because we self-sabotage and some say that the roommate in your head this is negative and telling you, you can't do that or you should not speak up, or you are going to come across as crazy. >> this is interesting, valerie, and part of why i wanted you at the table because i have been talking to my college students and young women finishing up school or going into their law school experiences, and they are hearing something here that is meaningful to them in part, because, you know, she talks about this sense that you have to start planning for, you know, for your family work-balance before you pr dating anyone seriously. does this resonate for you? >> absolutely. i just returned from my honeymoon, and so -- >> here we are at work. >> and here i am, and this whole debate is intersecting in a raw way with the questions that i am struggling with everyday, how to start a family and continue building a career. it is on the minds and constant topic of conversation for anyone in their 30s, and now their 20s. and what we are seeing is that the conversation fails to are recognize the kinds of specific struggles that we are noticing in our lives, that we believe that women's liberation won't be possible in america until it is possible for every single woman to live the good life. unfortunately, in the process of leaning in, who are are women in power leaning on? nannies, housekeepers and d domestic workers and care givers and millions of women with less privileges and immigrant women and women who are are struggling and so rather than taking this as the banner for women's advancement and we ought to think of it as a way to lift up all women across the board. >> well, i am struck how the immedia media has first of all unbelievable the attention, but -- >> it is amazing. >> so much of the media it seems to me has been about pitting this as a cat fight. they want women to debating other women. i think that we should be fighting injustice and not each other. >> and jody canter and moreen dowd have helped to create that. >> yes, and amplified by a media that seeks in that debate more of a cat fight than perhaps exist exists, because listen, i'm not kumbaya hold hands, but i believe in fighting injustice and not each other, and there is a serious debate to be had and the discussion of the media, think of how many women are cut out of representation. you don't hear about a woman i wrote about when the ann marie slaughter, atlantic cover story and ann marie vasquez, a mother of three, a janitor, and cleaning buildings as jesse jackson says takes the early bus if she can't take the late bus. so in this hand, she has gotten a raw deal, and all power to a woman who bants to make feminism 101 or rosie the riveter 101, so let her have her voice. she is not marissa mayor of yahoo sc yahoo! who said, everyone must come to work. >> and it is a pleasant book and i sat and read it last night, and it is reading like a commencement address. and the thing about it though that is so surprising about the level of angst that it is giving is that i keep thinking about the steve jobs' biography that i read last year. and jobs was not a nice human being, and he was high a lot. i mean, that all seems to be very clear in his road to succe success, and she is still in many ways, still doing her girl social saishgs and sizatio socialization, and it is let me help other people, and maybe it is set no all that complex, but it is still not steve jobs. >> yes, and one with of the challenges of addressing injustice is the level of access. one of the largest criticisms of sheryl is that she has all of the accesses in the world, and instead of criticizing that, we should build a bridge from her story and highlight the incredible women leaders who don't have the access, but still doing great things and paving the way for their daughters and creating great social movements in their communities to help to elevate other women leaders. i'm on the board of directors for this women's food service forum, and as a woman growing up in corporate america, i had a bunch of men to work with and no examples of what is possible in my company, but there are groups and movements in society that allow young women to say what is possible, and we should not fault a book that highlights what is possible, but we should try to fill in the gap between this woman on high. >> and we are just starting, and i promise, we have a lot more on exactly this, and we are leaning in. lots of ladies at the table when we come back. with the spark cash card from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? 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[ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? told you i'd get half. it's not what you think. it's a phoenix with 4 wheels. it's a hawk with night vision goggles. it's marching to the beat of a different drum. and where beauty meets brains. it's big ideas with smaller footprints. and knowing there's always more in the world to see. it's the all-new lincoln mkz. will restore even skin tone? think again. introducing olay professional even skin tone. developed by experts in skin genomics to target 5 major causes of uneven skin tone and help restore even color. olay professional even skin tone. are proven to be effective pain relievers. tylenol works by blocking pain signals to your brain. bayer advanced aspirin blocks pain at the site. try the power of bayer advanced aspirin. women almost never make one decision to leave the workforce. it does not happen that way. they make small little decisions is along the way that eventually lead them there. these women don't even have relationships burk already they are finding balance and balance for responsibilities that they don't yet have, and from that moment they start quietly leaning back. >> that was facebook coosheryl sandberg giving the 2011 commencement address at barnard college. i want to show as we are talking about her book "lean in" and when she is talking about power and in particular corporate power but when you look at the women in executive positions and board seats and even elected congressional positions, you are talking about fewer than 20% of the positions held by women and when you look at women of color, abysmal numbers at less than 5%, and compensation, and although the wage gap has closed for women since 1970, it is only narrowed and not closed. we are looking at 59 cents per dollar now compared to 77%, but still not dollar for dollar, so i want to ask you about this, cat, because when valerie said a moment ago every woman can live the good life, and so if we turn the numbers into 50-50, would that constitute success? you are a woman in corporate america, and come up through ho hooters and cinnabon, and i would say that hooters is sexist, and sin bon is not good for the health, and i don't want women to be 50% of them. >> well, i don't believe that 50% is enough. when women are involved in gender leadership teams, the financial success is there. the gender diverse leadership is proven to be successful. whether it is a sweet treat concept or any concept, women make a positive difference leading. in fact, women have the skills today that are so critical for leading effective businesses and particularly collaboration. cross functional and cross generational collaboration. and for me, i did grow up in the hooters organization, and the only female executive on the team. >> that is amazing. >> and interestingly every boss i ever had in that company was a woman. >> interesting. >> every boss. i grew up in a single parent household and i saw a powerful woman who worked two jobs. my mom started out as flo and ended up as mary. it is the interesting transition to watch. i'm the oldest of three girls and i have been surrounded by seeing strong women. i think that companies in order to see this change, this less than 20% get to 50 and beyond, you have to get the women on the corporate boards, because the women who are moving up needed a voe kates and sponsors and individuals to provide them access and opportunity, and if the boardroom is full of men, we are never going to reach the tipping point the make this different. >> colling at this, a in ing -- like my feminism a little more structure, and all power to sheryl sandberg, but her theory of change is trickle down feminism, because you will see more women because of women in leadership position, but i am not sure that is the case. i think that we need women in leadership and media corporate leadership and you are the first woman of color running your own political show on a network, right? and we don't have many women in media, and that might change through representation, but on the other hand, we have the examples of margaret thatcher and indira gandhi, and i think that you need more women at the table, but you need to change the table. the ongoing discussion of whether you are just entering a system as it is or whether you will bring to it structural real change. i think that is lost a little in sandberg's story, but you know, she can't represent everyone. we need the either/or and more and the global piece gets lost. in this country, our great country, we have to look out at the world, so interesting that so many of the debates were happening on international women's day and so many other countries do better by their women on the structural front. >> and the other thing that is a bridge and it sort of gets at what katrina was saying that you gave the statistics of women in leadership positions and in politics and this is despite the fact for pep women of color, there are more women in college than men and particularly in women of color, and we outnumber men at that point and right to the point we graduate from school, we outnumber men, and what happens when the women, and particularly of color graduate from college, but women in general to the time they are climbing into the corporate structure and part of it is when women leave and exit the workforce because of having families and that is difficult, because of the expectation of women who have law degrees were tough to be hired because of the assumption they would leave and have kids, and you are a more risky hire, because you will drop out of the workforce because of kids and people are delaying and delaying that, and what if you wanted to do that at 30 or 40, it is a problem. so what is happening between the time that we are great coming out of college and when we get to leadership? >> right. on the one hand, the initial part of the pipeline, the pool of which it is drawn is more diverse than ever at least in terms of pure gender questions, but it does not necessarily end nup leadership, but then we must ask the question of leadership of what? if in fact if these women are still leading organizations that contribute to deep wealth inequality and flow ball inequities and war -- global inequities, and maybe what we need is more fem inists in leadership and not more women. >> and i feel it is systemic, because i feel myself between two different sets of women. one as a woman of color and family of immigrants, i have seen women leaned on for generations, and my aunt works double shifts at a factory to bring home platters of baklava at christmas and then disappeared to work until she died. so she encouraged all women to succeed. i have gone the ivy league colleges, and connected to a different set of women who are connected to powerful companies and college, and now in the 30s we are horrified that we are in for another version of sacrifice for us, and jobs that don't give us flexible hours or paternity leave or give us a track to slowdown and stay on course for long-term promotions, and we are not able to put the egalitarian values in practice. that is why the system is what we want to talk about. >> this is what i want to talk about from this break, is because are we just saying that it should be all work and everybody work harder and harder and everybody is a cog in the wheel, but like the idea of telling wealthy white girls to work harder, because poor p black girls have been told to work harder, so i am down with that, but other tech executive who is turning heads every time she speaks. and how yahoo!'s executive figures into all of this. she and sandberg are buddies. quicken loans understood the details and guided me through every step of the process. and how yahoo!'s executive figures into all of this. she and sandberg are buddies. wherever the military sends me, i can depend on quicken loans. 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[ male announcer ] it's not complicated. more is better. and at&t has the nation's largest 4g network. ♪ few women at the top of the tech industry means that sheryl sandberg has inevitably drawn comparisons to the other woman at the top of the tech industry making headlines, and this is her best friend yahoo's ceo marissa mayor. she issued an edikt to the people in her office, work in the office or don't work at all. it was a policy change to help bolster the struggling company, and the message was muddled because of the messenger. after she was the first pregnant ceo, she built a nursery in her office which made her a ceo working alongside her baby, but the policy ensured that she is one of the few women at yahoo! with that luxury. and that said, i want to work alongside my baby. i mean -- >> i don't get it. >> that is not sounding -- >> isn't the point that you are supposed to go to work because the baby is crying. why would you want to bring the crying to the job. >> and there must be a child care provider as well. >> she has a nanny? >> well, first of all, if a guy had done, this he wouldn't have been nailed, but you cannot build a nursery for your own kid and tell employees, women many of them, that they cannot stay at home or have flexibility. she should bailed day-care center at yahoo! pronto and say, at the nation where i work, the editor, we have a lot of women, and all editors and women, and when people are at home, the office, and you don't have the great spirit and the conversation and the debates, so again, it is either/or, but she did it badly. betsy reid, and she was on a o yahoo! chat yesterday, and the white house reporter who needs to pump, and the white house does not have the place yet, and the affordable care act, they will add it, but betsy doing the chat was advised by the yahoo people, let's not discuss the tell commu telecommuting issues, but focus on the pumping issue. so you have this dissent. >> well, if you want to run a corporation, good, great. have this track, and i want to talk about the structures that we can build to make it easier and i taught at princeton under a president who was a woman who had been a single -- and was, and she is a woman, shirley tillman, and she had been a single mom coming up through the ranks of being a laboratory scientist and got it and made policies that made it easier for princeton faculty, and nobody wants to know that she made it easier for princeton faculty, and boo hoo, because the princeton faculty have it so bad. so what is the fundamental thing that we are talk about when we are are talking about corporate america, and can women change that thing so we can value life as we do profit. >> women can absolutely change that thing, and the reality is that structure dictates funct n function, and women do have to change the structure, but one woman can't do it. and women have to do it together and we have to build a bridge between those in the corporate elite group who seem to have the access in the world and the young women coming up, and we have the bookend the argument and the activity and start at global economic forums and davos and elementary schools and high schools and fundamentally change the structure of organizations, the work schedule, time, the quality of work, not quantity of work. >> and the mentoring piece, we tend to think that women have to mentor other women, and one of sandberg's clear points is that it was larry summers and a variety of men who had access to power who helped to bring her along and it felt to me that was in part saying, men, this is your responsibility to diversify this workforce. >> and women harm themselves when they wait around for only a women or the, and i have had in my career a lot of men who have stepped forward to say, i will give you an opportunity, and the man who hired me is a man, david wilson, so you have a diversity of potential mentors, but at the same time, too, you know, we don't necessarily get the same feedback from even our attempts to supersede all of the barriers, right? you have had the women who have made the choice to pursue the careers and all people ask about is why isn't she married? and you have women who have a child, and they say, why would she sabotage her career to have a baby? and then the case of the woman who is a bad guy of building the nursery on the side, and then to katrina's point, well, she is trying to make a choice to be flexible and at the same time legitimately so, why not fair to employee, and then i think of women in positions like my mom and your mom who have to work and they don't even have the option. this is not a conversation and anything they can ask the boss, but find a way to get the kids cared for and some day care somewhere and get to work, or they will be fired. >> and i want to keep the eyes here, and say, for most people in is not a choice, and what kind of great child care you are going to have, but on the other hand, there is something that we lose in feminism if we don't point out that even at the top gender remains a disprivilege and once you are wealthy and white, don't worry because gender is unimportant, and part of the recognition is that even at the top it matters and as much as i want to stalk about the structures, but there is something to learn about how men walk through the world, right? with this sense of just, like this, is always in my point of sarah palin, she ran for office like a man. who care that she was not qualified and men run for office unqualify and sometimes twice when they run qualified -- >> well, just saying. >> and to answer any of the questions about how we encourage other women on a personal level or how we make structural changes we have to start with the question of what is the good life? and what does the good life consist of? right now the entire discourse is dominated by two representations of female women who are ceos and corporate executives and i'm afraid they don't capture the full measure of success and what success means to us as young women and men coming up in our 30s. just last night i was speaking with my dear friend jes a ka who is an academic about how the models of success making it to the top and juggling the family and the career and having the cradle in your office and how all of those things don't, are not appealing to us if it means a sacrifice of our own wellness and health. what we want is a balanced and flexible life. we want to be creative and productive, and we want to make a difference in the world. we want enough money and not a lot, but enough money to live without fear, and we want to be able to take care of our friends and families and communities and we want to succeed, but not at the expense of our own wholeness. >> and some women just want to succeed. they are ambitious. >> and that might be okay, too. >> i go back to mary tyler moore and prime time feminism, and that show was important, because it did not define her by the family or the husband, but her work. >> her work. >> yes, it was a different representation of success and happiness and don't forget rhoda and phyllis, because they both had their own lives. and i think that you have to allow a diversity of measures of success, because there are sheryl sandberg's who want to be in the corporate structure and i'm not as optimistic as you are about the ability of the women to take on the economy of the country, and there are particular movements. >> there are is on the topic of this, i am worried about this talk as important it is, distracts to us the real dangers of the women out there in the world. as certified recovery specialists at lifelock, we're dedicated to getting you back on track from identity theft. to protect you from being a victim in the first place, we have specialists for that, too. ♪ [ alarm blaring ] ♪ [ lasers zapping ] ♪ yep. we make a pretty good team. 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[ barking ] [ announcer ] we know how important your dog is to your whole family. so help keep him strong and healthy with purina dog chow. because you're not just a family. you're a dog family. may i ask you about being in congress? >> i loved every second of it, and i still miz it. >> what about that picture behind there? >> well, it is churchill and i'm on the board. >> the rachel maddow show installed a bar in my office. >> just one side of "weekends with alex witt" weekdays at noon. got ya ! gotcha ! got ya. that's all you got, brother ? take that. never having to surrender the things that matter. gotcha. that's powerful. verizon. encouraging women to choose to lean into their work assumes that women have the freedom to make that movement in the first place, but taking away women's reproductive options, there are few choices at all and suddenly summoning the power to lean in means nothing when policy makers are trying to shut women out. we got a harsh reminder when the arkansas republican-led legislature the republican majority voted to ban abortios s of 12 weeks of pregnancy. and a direct contradiction to the supreme court decision in roe v. wade. so on the one hand, we are going to build a lot of nurseries. >> they won't put any money into it. >> no. >> and if men could get pregnant, and you have heard this stuff, this stuff would not be going on in any states, but don't forget that the violence against women act, and how many months did it take to move out of this tea party-dominated house. anyw anyway, it is you are right, the barriers to equality and inclusion are really staggering in the 21st century. >> and given that we started with mary tyler p moore, and part of the reason that mary tyler moore happens on television is because of the pill and this movement of women's capacity to control the reproductive capacities and if they can't, then the rest of this is just, blah, blah talk. >> and i agree, and i have been struck by the obsession that a set of men in this country have with controlling women's reproduction from the birth control issue to abortion. and it is an obsession that we will use the power of the staten that we the conservatives say that the state should not be in our life and we should not be able to buy 18 uzis, but to order women and tell women, because these anti-abortion laws are ordering the state to order women to give birth. >> and there is a possibility to force you to stay married and so ted gasman who is a state congressman in iowa introduced a controversial bill about eliminating no-fault divorce, and i would like to listen to ted gasman listen to why he would like to do that. >> there is a 16-year-old girl now in this whole mix now. guess what, what are the possibilities of her being more promiscuous, and all of the possibilities of all of these other things surrounding her life than a 16-year-old with hormones raging can get herself into. >> so he wants people to not get divorced because their 16-year-old daughters might go out to have premarital sex, and yes, this is an obsession. >> and who are they having sex with? is there a fanp tom at the end of the transaction? there are boys doing some stuff. >> there are more and more men who get it and we were talking about the ugly comments on the internet sites which allow these people to speak in ways, but more and more men understand they need to be partners and pa partners in the reproductive rights and it affects the family and their lives burk you do have a movement here that wants to overturn the civilizing a advances that women fought so hard for in the 20th century, and that requires more than just leaning n but it requires leaning in, but also a movement, and not just one woman, and the groups that sheryl sandberg is going to form, and we haven't talked about them the little bit corporate social marketing, but if you could bring women together and build a movement out of that, all power. >> and in fact, what they may have to do is to lean out a little bit from work in order to have time to do the community-based organizing and to write their senators and congressmen to stop the crazy town. i have one piece of advice for women going into the careers though, don't smile and nod unless you are happy and agree. i am just saying. katrina van der hueval a, thank you. and my let eer of the week is coming up after the break. 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seeking an answer in this week's letter goes to the man who signed off on the campaign. dear mayor michael bloomberg, it is me, melissa. what happened? i mean, mr. mayor, you have an enviable track record of supporting reproductive rights and advocates for common sense and proven strategies to reduce unwanted and unplanned teen pregnancy. you mandated comprehensive appropriatis ex education in schools. you have worked to make sure that birth control is available to young people to make wise decisions, and delay becoming parents, and the city's teen pregnancy rate has declined more than 20% in the last decade, and good job. and this week, these troubling posters began appearing all around the city, and each one featuring a well fed gorgeous, but obviously distressed toddler who is viewing questionably interpretable data and showing shame to his or her mythical parent. if you finish high school and get a job and get married before having children, you have 598% chance of not being in poverty. no, no, no. you see, mr. mayor, that is what i am talking about and you know that full well poverty has increased even as teen pregnancy as decreased and it is more closely linked to low wage work and barriers to employment than teenage pregnancy. and you know that poverty in latinos and other immigrant communities have increased despite dramatic decrease in teen pregnancy. so that is the type of thing that could lead some people to blame young mothers for the poverty crisis than putting it where it belongs, on a system that concentrates wealth at the top and public policies that entrench it there. and there is this poster, honestly, mom, chances are, he won't stay with you, what happens to me? i am rendered speechless, but this one, i cannot -- in a society that constantly tells black girls and women through popular culture and public policy that we are easily disposable and unmarriageable and wholly unlovable, this image of a child mocking her young mother with partner abandonment is simply a step too far, and maybe you don't realize this, mr. mayor, but those of us who were raised by single moms had no interest in shaming them. we tend to praise them, and recognize their sacrifices and see all of the ways they worked to make the world better for us even when it was hard for them. so, listen up, mr. mayor, i know you have kind of a thing about labeling as public health strategy, and you can't even so much as buy a fa lal fell from a street vendor these days without reading a label with the information aa aa aal nutrition attached, but as it goes, please keep your labels off of these young people. sincerely, melissa. is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? 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[ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. deal as a writer to have your first book published or any book for that matter, but it is another thing altogether to have the support of literary powerhouses like toni morrison andsolomon rushdi, and that is "ghana must go" and it is beautifully crafted, because it tells the story of a man's death and abandoned his family 16 years earlier and how that loss serves as the healing process, and equally important is the focus on the immigrant presence and the struggles that immigrants go through and how we as a society can think about the benefits and the contributions and the realities, and the humanity of those who we label as immigrants. so i am so happy to welcome the author of "ghana must go." it is lovely to have you here. >> my pleasure. >> i want to start by asking you about the movement to writing, becoming a writer. >> sure. >> we have been talking a little bit about the idea of women making choices, and i was reading this lovely interview with you in "elle" where you talk about making a choice between the boy and the book. all right. you ultimately decide on the book. how do you choose this path for yourself? >> i think that what was happening for me in that moment, and i imagine that it may happen for many women is that i had fallen absolutely in love with absolutely the wrong person. the good news is that i was already absolutely in love with writing, so it was at a time when i had written the first part of "ghana must go" and tasked to write the second and the third, and i was experiencing a writer's block for many reasons, and fear being amongst them, but i was trying to be something that i wasn't was literally preventing me from being what i was. in order the write authentically, you have to be authentic, and so you have to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning and know you are true. so when i woke up in the morning and looked at myself, i realized it was not me, and so when i changed myself and got back the myself, i was able to finish the book. >> and i loved every moment i stayed with it, and it is courageous, because it is poetic even as it is fictional and it feels so real. there is a sense of embodying the characters. you write men and women and younger people and older people, and tell me about the process of embodying? >> sure. it is a bit of a magic act in a way what a writer does i think. sometimes i read passages that i have written and i literally ask myself, where on earth did that come from? i am neither a mother nor a wife nor old man nor dead, so how can you tell these stories. >> right. >> and you are experiencing the humanity of others, and they know. i am a human being, so i am not a mother, but i have loved. i am not a father, but i have wanted. i am not dead, but i have feared. i think of my experience as a human being as equipping me to receive truths about other experiences, and i just do the best i can to render that truth and to do so beautifully. >> i want you to share a passage with nerdland, with our audience about the specific experience of the african immigrant experience within the context of the black experience, but much more importantly the border crossing reality of what it means to be both human and immigrant, and share this passage that i love. >> absolutely. at the point, the character is on his last legs. yes, we are one page from his death, and he says this. he says, to have dared to become, to escape would have sufficed to be free if one wants swelling strings, to be beyond being a citizen, and beyond being poor. it was all he was after in the end, a human story, a way to be kweku beyond being poor. to have them in the village to have spat them up and be nameless villages, cogs, to have fled thus unhooked on the small sssai for the vastness and the smallness of life free of want, the petty triumphs, and the state, grinding work, civil war, yes this would have been quite enough kweku things. born in dust, dead. >> thank you so much. and coming up, how i almost worked as a funeral director. there is more nerdland at the top of the hour. i really loved this. because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. with just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. vo:building castles, -imagine oceans, and lagoons in the place we call home. bold is where everyone comes to play. starting our day off with a good dance and singing us to sleep at night. coloring our lives in ways only bold can do. it's no wonder bold will make your reality, a dream. we replaced people with a machine.r, what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. it has been 85 days since the sandy hook elementary school shooting that left 20 children and 6 adults fatally wounded. 85 days since that tragedy spark ed a national dialogue about gun control n. that time, a great deal has happened to keep the momentum going for change. this week was no different. on wednesday, former congresswoman gabby giffords returned to the scene of the shooting that left her severely impair and killed six people two years ago and still in recovery and the only difference is that she was only able to offer a few words this week to ask for unceasing effort to keep gun control in reform, and not to be outdone, the nra is ramping up efforts, and the lobby has seen fantastic earnings in the past quarter. in the last quarter, smith and wesson reported quarterly earnings of three times a year ago and sales of $136 million. fellow gunmaker strum ruger and company had a stellar quarter with sales of $142 million. on friday a new market of potential gun marketers opened up to them, why? because the governor of south dakota signed into law a bill making the state the first in the nation to specifically allow teachers to kcarry firearms in classrooms. but those fighting for gun control are keeping the pressure on. today a team of 26 cyclists departed from sandy hook, connecticut, on a journey to take them 400 miles to washington, d.c. to honor the lives who were lost in the massacre. and also a new poll of mayors against gun violence shows that the background check legislation has their support. of the district congressional districts polled, showed background checks for all, all, all gun sales. yet the will of the people is not getting through to those on capitol hill, and while there are several bills in the ju d h judiciary committee, only one has made it to be go through committee. only one republican signed on that one. and despite the high partisan hopes to expand the background checks for all gun buyers, it stalled this week signalling that comprehensive gun control has a tough road ahead. with me is the mayor of bridgeport, connecticut, bill finch and he is a member of mayors against gun violence and msnbc contributor and managing editor of thegrio.com joy-ann reid, and also professor of psychology at vanderbilt and author of "psychosis" and valerie kaur, a filmmaker, and fellow at seminary. and is it possible to get meaningful legislation on gun control in the next year? >> i really do think it is. mayors have been working very hard on this issue for a long time. my city, unfortunately, very, very close to new town. my police chief lives in newtown, and one of our teachers lost a 6-year-old son, the same age as my son, and it deeply impacted our local community, but i have seen the debate has changed. mayors who are more tepid, because of more conservative areas, but basically, everybody is throwing the caution to the wind and saying that the people are here and with us, and the wind is at our backs. we have 89% in your mayors against the illegal guns poll, and 81% against the assault weapons, so we are have to tighten the gun show loophole and 6.6 million guns per year are getting into people's hands without any background check at all. that means people who are stalker stalkers, terrorists, domestic violence, and the like. it is a lot that has been talked about in mental health, and it is an important part of it, but the most important thing is to reduce the supply of guns out there, and the mayors are trying to do that. >> when you say that, reduce the supply of guns out there, joy, that means that folks who are making money, and making these guns will have fewer profits, and that is really a sticking point, right? it is not the 89% of people who say get the background checks burk it is these folks who make this saying if you want fewer of these, that is fewer dollars in my pocket. >> and the gun industry understands the market is going and they are not selling more shotguns or pistols, but they are selling more semi automake it -- semiautomatics. >> is that because the deer are faster? >> yes, and severely aggressive. >> and how many hunters shoot more than two bullets anyway? >> well, it is not the hunters buying the guns, but it is the survivalist, and the people running out into the woods and the gaming and then we did a forum and the three of us together, john nan and the mayor and i, and i talked about a guy i met in mississippi a conservative republican and we had a great long conversation and he said, look, i didn't have guns and i was not interested of them, but when we heard that the president was doing gun control, i started to go out there to buy them. >> because they will be valuable. >> so you have people collecting them, too, and gun industry understands they have to support the industry where their bread is butter and that is semiautomatics. >> and you have to love that, this is going to be rare, let me get some. >> and it is a product that has no liability, and you can dump them willy-nilly and you have no liability when they start to kill people. >> and even though you don't have ill intention, it is the second and the third owner. >> valerie, we have talked about newtown as the moment sort of where the death of children becomes so appalling that we are unwilling to sit still any longer. before that at the oak creek shooting in the sikh temple, and what is happening in that community that you spent time with them in that community? >> yes, i was in oak creek, and the moment our plane landed is when the shooting had happened in my own backyard, and so i was traveling from the site of one mass shooting to another, and what it has been producing in the sikh community and every community that has faced gun e violence is the realization that it is not one community's struggle anymore. for the first time in recent history, we have a critical mass of people across faiths, across race, and across regions and across any and all demographics who are coming together to call for an end to gun violence. this is something new beyond the noise that a movement has emerged, and it is an extraordinary moment for action. a 18-year-old young man who lost his mother in that mass killing, he goes every week to sit in the spot where his mother was killed and in the spot that the fbi wrapped her body to be close to her. this heart-broken young man and shy young man working with the coalition had the courage the go to the halls of congress and he became the first sikh american in history to go to the u.s. senate to testify not for the stopping of violence against sikh people, but all people. it was filled with latino, jewi jewish, christian, all communities, and while the gun lobby is powerful and has a lot of money, it is no match for the energy in that room. >> and now i am looking at the quinnipiac poll that tells me that there is enormous support for background checks and 88% of registered voters and 88% of gun owners themselves and 83% of conservatives say we want background checks, but at the same time, i'm looking at gun sales and gun sales since newtown, 7 million. so on the one hand, we want to restrict it, and is this because we all see ourselves as possibly this child in this community, but we also think that somehow we have to be armed against the shooter? >> well, we had a tremendous panel at nyu who talked about this, and we talked about the anxiety that surround iings thi issue, and discourse of othering, and i support background checks as a idea, but i also need to protect myself gai against somebody else. joy ann and i also knew that we had known dennis and people who sta started to buy pistols against -- >> dennyss like the people who work on teeth? >> yes. and setting up to protect themselves against people. when we looked at this on a cultural level even though people support this idea in theory, there are historical stereotypes and certainly we saw the othering of the mentally ill after newtown and remember that the nra press conference where wayne lapierre got up and it was coded with the delusional crazy people, and stigma of mental ill jumped up even though as we have seen in the tag line that far more people are going to be shot, and they should be arming themselves against sane people. >> yes, and right. there is an nra moment where they are going on interesting complex ideas. i want to look at this nra advertise mement with the new spokesman and african-american named kalid nuar. >> they want to protect themselves with the government who held us down with water and attacked us with dogs and would not allow us to eat at their restaurants and could not own guns when fools with sheets on their head were riding across our lawns and murdering us. >> so we need guns to protect us from the klan? i mean, don't get me wrong, because there's a historical argument there, but it also feels like -- >> not in bridgeport, connecticut. or newtown. >> and joy-ann, helped me put a piece on the grio.com about this debate and the point i was making on the editorial is that this is a piece that is on the nra website, and you put an angry black man with a gun on the website, and there are not a lot of african-americans logging on with regularity and taps into white guys who are then prompted the go get guns. >> and if that is the person for whom they are for, and that will prompt me to -- we are going to stay on this i promise right here. there is so much more. and i want to come back to continue on the question of the hitting home, with we have a congressman joining us as soon as we come back. tylenol works by blocking pain signals to your brain. bayer advanced aspirin blocks pain at the site. try the power of bayer advanced aspirin. hi victor! mom? i know you got to go in a minute but this is a real quick meal, that's perfect for two! campbell's chunky beef with country vegetables, poured over rice! 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[ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? despite momentum flagging on gun control in congress, a bipartisan group of represents may have found one bill they can all get behind. last month the drug trafficking prevention act of 2013 was introduced by the house judiciary committee and the bill seeks to make drug trafficking a federal crime with the intent to stop straw-buyers who purchase the guns and give them to felon s. one of the bill's cosponsors elijah cummings of maryland suffered a personal tragedy two years ago when his 20-year-old nephew christopher cummings was gunned down in a random shooting at his college apartment near old dominion university in virginia. the congressman says that this painful loss helped to inspire his strong support for gun control measures, and he joins us from baltimore. thank you for being here, congressman. >> good to be with you. >> i want to tap into this, because it does feel to me like the personal piece of this is part of the intensity, so tell me how this personal loss impacted your position on guns. >> well, first of all, i have been a strong advocate of trying to make sure that the guns do not get into the hands of the wrong people, but when my nephew was killed at 5:00 in the morning and somebody busted into his apartment, and he was an honor student at old dominion, and a junior, paid his own tuition, and then they tried to rob him and killed him, shot him to death, and then until a few days later to see his blood and my blood by the way splattered on the walls and then to see tissue from his body on the walls and on the floor, a young man who had just a few days earlier been talking to me, and looking forward to going on to law school, it leaves a pain. as i listen to the panel, a lot of the things, melissa, a lot of people don't understand what a force this is. there are a lot of people who have suffered a family member being killed. or injured by somebody using firearms, and what happens, and although i have been to funerals, i live in the inner city of baltimore and i have sint, it is nothing like going through it. when you go through it, there is something that what happens is the pain turns into a passion, and you -- and then you want to carry out your purpose. that purpose is to make sure it never happens to anybody again, and so with the guests when they were talking about this coalition that is now building, sadly, the coalition is building everyday, because more and more people are going through this. >> right, right. >> and i can tell you that in the end the nra is going to be no match for these folk, because they will address this issue until they die with a passion. >> so, i think that this point is so key. i want to come out to you, valerie, because the congressman is suggesting just what you suggested that there is something about the personal raw experience of loss that changes people as advocates. >> yes, whether it is children on a connecticut morning in a school or a sikh worshippers on a sunday morning or aft african-americans on a street coroner chicago, it is touching every single one of us in a deeply and personal and painful way. just now, we are finding a way to channel the energy into organizing. this week, newtown clergy sent a letter to work with pico which is a moral mandate on ban of assault weapons and asking for enforceable background checks and end to gun trafficking which we saw made some traffic, and thousands of people will have going to ground swell.com to sign that let e and there are everyday people who have opportunities to make change on this issue and meetings this sunday in their places of worship as well. >> and this still requires the work of policy makers so there are three senator, mark warner of virginia where your nephew was killed and bob casey of pennsylvania and all of the s senators and the democrats, and there is some reason to believe they are more highly influenced by the nra than losses of their own constituents. >> well, i cannot say who influences them, but i can tell you that the nra has a very powerful image. that image has been that if you do anything that even touches guns in any way, they are going to come after you. in other words, they are going make sure that they try to find somebody possibly to run against you. they are going to make sure that, that person is supplied with the money they need. maybe they will put out ads against you. that has been the history of the nra. i will tell you when i watched what happened here in chicago with the election of the, well, the primary election of the young lady and bloomberg coming in, and mayor bloomberg putting the money in that race, i think that, the more that happens, people will be emboldened to do the right thing, but again, the nra is very, very powerful. and the image, the image, and the idea that you will have these folks coming after you with ads and millions and million millions of dollars and people want the retain their seats, and so that is a problem. >> job number one is to be re-elected, but i like this point that as we change power that to get re-elected will start to shift. thank you elijah cummings from ba baltimore. we will talk more on this issue, and we are not done with guns. protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. and launch your dreams. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. so we created the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number experience. a collection of innovations designed around a bed with dualair technology 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[ sponge ] so it's not a chore. i had a very long day in the airport yesterday and weather troubles on the east coast made it difficult for me to get here, and i was in louisiana. and i had a passenger say to me, aim a hunter and i believe in guns and i believe in background checks. so i thought, maybe this is a space to build a coalition, mayor. >> yes, as far as the mayors in the state legislature, i was very pro hunting andmade the nra guys break that. because i said, you have a hunter who is going to break apart the coalition, because i am for hunters who do not have any reason for large clips or assault weapons. and i'm a reagan gun owner. and finding the polling and the sense of the nra members and finding out where we can hurt them. we can hurt the nra by applying to common sense legislation by banning the assault clips and weapons that the hunters by and large agree with. so the most important thing for sus to build the community consensus, and also one of the things that we talked on the panel last night is working at the grass roots community level with the clergy and doing the take back the night rallies and the gun buybacks and we bought over 700 guns back off of the streets of bridgeport, and ironically, the first gun we bought was a ar-15 but the guns at the buyback gave me tremendous courage that the people are with us. and long-time gun owners say, i want this out of my house and not the fall in the hands of the wrong p person. >> and the gun movement has said saying the right things, and we are all for a strategy, and you have to isolate the nra and p pursue divestiture of the company, because pension funds scare them more than the nra and when you have cal p per seeing we will divest from this fund if you don't drop the company that owns the bush master company. and if you have organizations like mayors of illegal guns saying we will spend $10 million against you if you don't vote for this gun control legislation. that is scaring them more than the nra. >> and you have to be ethical and moral and social movement, but also strategic. >> yes, and even the nra thought that the newtown movement would pass and die down like it has in the past, but it is still building. so i think that having that, you also have to have at lt of money and be willing to use it. >> valerie, i feel like you -- >> yes. >> i feel like you are over there saying, i have something. >> i have many things, but this is a fight for gun owners, too. i was raiseded in a household where my father owned a gun. >> hello. >> and he was raised on farmland where he used a gun for hunting and so it was normal and a card-carrying member of the nra when they stood for gun control legislation, and it is not until they became the legislation they are today proposing a more guns to all of the social ills, and after newtown, armed schoolteachers and aft african-american in already saturated urban areas pick up more guns. it is crazy making, and it is absolutely imperative that gun-owning people who believe in the second amendment like my father join the fight, too. >> yes, absolutely. we have a lot more to say on this topic, and specifically, the question of mental health, because this guy, jonathan metsle is a psychiatrist and he will answer a lot of our questions. but, at some point... giant leaps gave way to baby steps... and with all due respect, you're history. if you taught us anything, it's that you can't cling to the past... if you want to create the future. that's why, instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. pushing u.s. aviation to new heights. all 80 thousand of us. busy investing billions in the industry's boldest moves. it's biggest advances in technology. bringing our passengers the best, the most spacious fleet in the sky. and earning more awards than any other airline... to show for it. so rather than simply saluting history... we're out there making it. exciting and would always come max and pto my rescue. bookstore but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself. and i knew he'd feel better if he lost a little weight. so i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula. i just fed the recommended amount... and they both loved the taste. after a few months max's "special powers" returned... and i got my hero back. purina cat chow healthy weight. as we wait for the represents in congress to wait on impending gun control legislation that would have a national impact, many states have acted. some of the quickest responses came from new york state which passed one of the strictest gun control laws in january. it requires a controversial provision to require providers of mental health officials to report any patient who makes credible threats. so it is a fear that it st stigmatizes the mentally ill, and in reality, they are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than the perpetrator. this week, a study shows that those with mental illness are five times more likely to be a victim in a murder. with statistics like that, it makes you wonder why our legislation is not seeking to protect them, the mental ill from us, the supposedly sane. i think that this is for me, jonathan, it is part of the question, like, it feels to me like i hear people say the one thing that we can agree is that the mentally ill should not have guns burk how do you define that and how is that a problem? >> well, it is funny, because i have been doing a lot of conservative talk radio over the past month. >> i'm sorry. >> and it is to point out to people who are nra members, but disaffected with the extreme policies and the prevalence of this thing to get the guns away from the crazy people is this incredibly entrenched historical stigmatization, and two problems with. one is that what you suggested is that people with mental illness as an aggregate group are withdrawn and seriously mentally ill people are odd, and they are far more to be be victims of violence than the target i targeting persons. there are terrific studies about the lessons that we draw, jeff swanson doing a bunch of work at duke, but the lessons that we draw from the mass shootings, and a lot of times we ask the psychiatrists to become prog nos kay or tters, and there are tho who fit the stereotype of the angry male and paranoid that psychiatrists can't use diagnostic criteria, so we can't ask the psychiatrists to predict who is going to become a shooter, but instead to support the foundation of caring for people and the community of mental health is a far more succe successful strategy. >> it feels like a strategy of politics that at least we can agree that crazy people should not have guns, but there is a particular shooting or murder that we are trying to keep from happening again and the newtown that we don't want to happen again, but the idea of pendleton, and there is no particular reason to believe that the person was mentally ill in a classic sense. >> yes, go ahead. >> i believe that america's response to gun violence has troubling racial undertones, and when the perpetrator is black, brown or muslim, america dyi diagnoses the problem as an entire community and the threat of people. when the perpetrator is white, we talk about individual problem or personal problem or problem of mental illness when we know that less than 5% of all violent crimes in the u.s. are committed by people who are mentally ill, and let's not forget last august when the perpetrator of the shooting in oak creek, wisconsin, the gunman who opened up fire in the sikh temple was motivated by hate. so the gun lobby pointing fingers to the mental health system is a tragically now diversionary tactic to stigmatize another group. >> and when you go to the legislature, it is the conservatives and the republicans who talk about mental health is the real issue. in my city and unless we are talking about community mental health which is a huge issue with young aftrican-american males. >> and people experiencing traumatic mental health from living in these communities. >> and growing up without a dad and not going to college and growing up with no real hope, and there are too many guns. what we want to make sure is that america does not get distracted in the process of sequestration. this is a moment of time, and i had to sit with survivors of newtown and talk to large christian concert or arena down the street that our children have died without something happening and make sure it has not happened again. >> don't let them die again on the sequestration fight and the petty battles that we have manufactured when we have something real. >> we have the morale highground and the political high ground and the most important thing is to focus on the magazine clips and the assault weapons and the trafficking and the background checks. if we get those four thing, we can change america, because americans are are watching -- americans are watching guns right now, and there are more guns than people. >> yes, and it is also important not to focus gun control on trying to stop the mass shootings, because they are the most dramatic, but it is the hydeia pendelton situation, and those are the situations of the deep depression and the handgun, and those situations where it is more politic in a way to talk about crazy people doing a mass shoot shooting and if we can stop that, but it is a small percentage when there is the day today degradation in the v violence of the cities or the suicides, and we won't do a bill that touches handguns and lt of the shootings taking place in the inner city are gang-relate and that is a policing problem and rooting out the systemic problems and that is mental health, but it is a whole lot of other things with poverty and other ing, but do what we can for now. >> and last night, i said mostly young people at nyu, and i said there is going to be a second amendment and you will have a rightful right to ownership. we are not out to change the constitution, and ten amendments in the bill of rights and they are all legal, but not one should be more important than the next. >> there may not always be a voting rights act, but don't worry, there is always be a second amendment. thank you, panel. i want to tell you this story about how i almost became a funeral director. all of them our driest, best fitting diaper, ♪ pampers cruisers with 3-way fit. not only with up to 12 hours of protection, they adapt at the waist, legs and bottom, for all the freedom to move their way in pampers best diaper. it's time to play. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪ blast of cold feels nice. why don't you use bengay zero degrees? it's the one you store in the freezer. same medicated pain reliever used by physical therapists. that's chilly! 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[ male announcer ] bengay zero degrees. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost.. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. with simple, real ingredients, like roasted peanuts, creamy peanut butter, and a rich dark-chocolate flavor, plus 10 grams of protein, so it's energy straight from nature to you. nature valley protein bars. parents do it, teachers do it, pastors do it, neighbors do it and even strangers do it, when talking to a school aged child you ask, what do you want to be when you grow up? and we ask to learn more about the aspirations of the young person and gain insight in to how they see themselves, but rarely do we hold them to it. except we do. in the sixth grade i took an aptitude test that asked a battery of tests that asked about skills and interests, and in a few weeks, i got the result and i was best suited for a job as a funeral director and so my small town middle school thought it would be good to track me in the vo-tech and out of the h honors classing and thankfully my mother was not having it and i do this instead. that is why i am nervous about a new move in grammar education to use educational testing to determine career paths for relatively little kids and to steer them that way long before the dreams and the abilities haven had a full chance to matu mature. joining the panel to either really piss me off or talk me off of the ledge is jeff madison, a national krcradle to career initiative to bring together educators and parents to help kids. talk to me about cradle to career. >> what we mean is that right now we don't have to do what they did to you back in the day. we have enough resources there to support children that if we were really intentional about how we used the resources we could individualize learning for every single child. so once we do understand your interests, we should not think about the schoolhouse or the vo-tech as the only options to help you tease out what you may be interested in, but afterschool programs and host of resources that if we were to be more intentional about using them and meaning if we were to actually look at the data and say, you are interested in this that and the others and connect you with the afterschool program to expose you to something, but not track you to a specific career. >> talk to me about the data aspect of it, because we have been read tact great teachers and the way that they have the capacity to see that thing that you write and part of how i end up here and not as a funeral director and that is a great profession and i would be wealthier, but not having taken that is because there was an english teacher who saw the thing in me, right? how would data help you to see a child in that way? >> well, my wife is a teacher and at home with our two sets of twins, if you can believe, that and she is a phenomenal teach e and one of the people who sees the spark. she had to work 90 hours a week, right? she had to work constantly, because she was all by herself trying to identify the opportunities and the resources. say we had a day the system where we understood not just how you were performing academically, but where the interests were, and we had all of the services the nonprofits and the social services who were able to work with the data to say, we can intentionally connect you rather than it being on the back of the teacher, and it is a community as a whole to wrap around the child to say, we can bring all of the resources to bear on your learning and the data is a tool to make it happen. too far, and too much we just let the tools sit on the side and put it in a data warehouse and bring it to life so we can actually understand what a child needs and interested in and then bring the resources to bear so that the child has the opportunity to learn. >> joy, what i like about how jeff talks about it is that we see so much educational data and it is testing like at the end of the semester or the year, and we will test you and then reward you or punish you even more. is this a stronger and better way to have us think about using data in education. >> no, i love it and i want to know when you can get it started for my three kids. i totally agree, because my mother was a college professor and the bain of her existence was multiple choice tests, and it is because we are programming the kids to be clever in options, and not knowledge test, and we can discern between two wrong options rather than learn something proactive and if you add to that a layer of also make you interested because one of the big problems for kids who are bright this school is boredom and one of the problems for kids who are struggling in school is that they are tracked into the you are not so smart, so we won't give you opportunity. i have dealt with both of the issues within my own household of children who were very smart, but who weren't good attesting, and so didn't get tracked into the opportunities, and the schools my kids are at now say, wait a minute with my one child with difficulties in florida, and they say, you like to write, you be on the literary magazine, and that opens up the child to make them interested in all of the other stuff you are trying to teach them. >> and mayor, this is the big vision, right, thep wrapping around and the multiple services, and we are program rich but network poor? >> system poor. >> yes, and that requires public, and public investment to make that happen, and if i come to the mayor and say, is there a way to make it happen? >> well, at the u.s. conference of mayors we get around democrats and republicans and say, there is no way to be a democratic way or republican way to fill a pothole, but be commonsensical. and one thing about jeff and we want him to come the bridgeport and i have been talking to him, but more costs and less money and every year we wring, wring, wring the budget to get every penny out of it. and what happens is that all well meaning people come to the cities to do good and at some point it is like the tower of babel, and everybody is doing their thing, but it is not coordinated so you need a outsider like jeff to come in to coral them and say, i'm on mother theresa's side over here, but you don't have the numbers or the da ta and you need to work more efficiently. >> what is it that you come in to do to people? >> read them the riot act. what we have developed after learning many lessons and frankly, we have failed forward and den things wrong a lot, and we have learned the lessons that we can bring to communities and say that there is a framework for you can build a civic infrastructure and basically four key things, and you need a shared community vision and bring the key leadership and the practitioners together to share accountability for results, right? the second thing is that you have to identify the outcomes that you want to move, eight to ten outcomes n. our community, there is eight, and every time we make a educational investment we vet whether it is going to improve third grade readyness or reading rates or what, but you have the bring the practitioners together, and empower them. they are saying this tutoring for example gets result, and how can we spread it across the existing resources rather than we need some miracle to solve all of the problems, and then the last piece is investment. you need people. i got to wake up everyday as what we call the chief cat herder to bring all of the players together, but you also need investors and the public and the private investors to say, we will stop doing spray and pray and spread the resources all over and pray it works out. we are going to actually focus and say, when we find something that works, how do we actually take that across the existing program services and systems and that is power of this. it is not all snazzy and this that and the other, but it is essentially what we need to do when we have limited resources right now, and we have to make do with what we have got and do better work with the time, and talent and treasure in place. >> and valerie, all of the way back to the beginning of the show when we were thinking of what it means to be successful in women as careers is how we were framing it, but it feels part of it here is a redefinition of what it means to have succeeded at educational reform. >> yes, what is really exciting me about your model, jeff, is that you're understanding that it takes a ecosystem to allow a child to thrive and it is an ecosystem that keeps a child down. what i want to lift up about what you are doing is a collective impact model to be applied to other social issues and hundreds of leaders across sectors and government, an nonprofit, and education and corporations coming together around a shared goal in order to effect change. so it is no longer the old way of problem solving, where i want to figure out the cure to cancer in my lab before you do, but it is all of us coming together to say, this is how we effect change and push at ground swell and that is what i am seeing happening with the landscape of social change and what i am hearing from young people who want prague mmatic issue s ts t huge social issue wes are facing. >> and this is employing the data with the human touch and not tracking folks based on one set of apt tut -- aptitude tests. >> i would say three things to pay attention to. >> well, only one, because we have 15 seconds. >> look at the local data, because chances are that the interventions exist in your backyard. don't think that what is happening in new york is going to save the day in dallas and kalamazoo. use the data in your own backyard and lift it up. >> i love that, jeff. first, it is time for a preview with alex witt. >> i love this conversation and so interesting and right up my alley. everyone, the knife fight is on, and today, more reak shction fr one group who is particularly up set with the tas's decision to allow knives on planes. we will talk to the leader of that group. and there is more on the filibuster of rand paul and it involves tea and apple. >> and save the rhino, and an ex-navy s.e.a.l. and current green beret and their story is scary an fearful moment during his investigation of richard nixon. back to you. >> let me tell you, i spent, you know, 14 hours in the airport yesterday with some very irritated passengers and i've got to tell you, i hope none of them were carrying a knife. >> well, exactly, that point. that point they're going to make from the flight attendants, like the last line of defense. >> this seems like a bad idea. >> agreed. up next, she beat the odds and she's helping other women to do the same. . our foot soldier this week is leading in by example. 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they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. clear eyes, full tummies, can't lose. president obama sits down for more datante al dente. this is "now." it's march 7th. joining me today washington post columnist and msnbc contributor the effortlessly elegant jonathan caphart. political editor, msnbc contributor, and white house correspondent -- you are elegant too -- at the huffington post, sam stein. columnist for bloomberg news doc farrow is here and executive editor at msnbc.com, our favorite import from the united kingdom, richard wolfe. president obama is hoping that breaking bread with congressional republicans will help break political gridlock. congressman paul ryan is on his way to the white house right at this very moment for a 12:25 p.m. lunch with the president and congressman chris van holland. earlier this week the president and the gop's budget boy wonder had a long phone conversation regarding the deficit and spending in advance of ryan's latest attempt to balance the nation's checkbook in ten years with zero revenue. last night the president took 12 republican senators out to dinner at the jefferson hotel. all accounts indicate a cordal reengagement. >> i think we had a great, great dinner, great discussion. the president was sincere. >> it was very candid. it was cordial and substantive. >> we listened, and then we had a nice dialogue back and forthed. >> it was constructtive. >> i am more optimistic from a personal standpoint. >> republicans also warned that a single night on the town does not a successful relationship make. >> the idea wasn't that we were going to negotiate a deal last night. that was never part of the plan. that isn't going to happen over one dinner. >> it's going to take a while to build the kind of confidence and trust that's needed. >> i don't think there's any expectation that something over the next month or six weeks is going to occur. >> the white house will continue the courtship next week when the president will go to capitol hill to meet with republicans and democrats, including, possibly, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell who was not present at date night last night despite his deal maker status. winning over gop hearts will be an uphill climb. referring to the lack of a comprehensive white house budget proposal yesterday, paul ryan sounded highly skeptical saying i find it interesting that the president has chosen to blow the deadline again not by a week or two, but for an indefinite period of time. the white house ought to lead. that's what presidents do. which begs the question, short of standing outside the gop headquarters with a boom box blasting peter gabriel, what must president obama do to win republican hearts and really truly finally bring them to bargain? sam stein, there's nothing i love more than quoting people to themselves and on live television, and in an article that you wrote for the huffington post, you actually quote a white house official who says, "there are a lot of republicans who probably don't know what we have put on the table. i don't know if the white house website isn't loading properly or if they're not reading the a.p., but if we need to sit down with these folks over a fancy sea bass to educate them about what we are offering, we are willing to do it." >> yeah. i mean, i think that's a really big concern within the administration is the fact that the plans that they put forward, including some reform changes like chain cpi and social security, medicare different payments in terms of -- no one knows about them, and ezra cline had a good post where he talked to an unnamed republican congressman about chain c.p.i., and the congressman said something like if only they would go there, we could get a deal. they went there. you know, it's funny in one respect, but it's also sort of sad and problematic in another that if you have to actually just start with educating them about what's in the proposal, then the end game, which is the actual deal making is far off, and i guess sea bass will help, but it will take a lot of sea bass. >> a lot of chilean sea bass. >> i think everybody has seen that bill o'reilly tape where he says you're lying about what the president has on offer, and really there is a sense that no matter what president obama puts on the table, it won't be enough. even if it's precisely the things that republicans are calling for. >> it won't be enough or won't be believed that he is actually putting this on the table. i mean, that's what's at issue here. if folks in the administration can -- and journalists can go on a website and see with their own eyes what the administration is proposing and go back to tapes and interviews that the president is saying all of the things that he would put in a daily auto and a lot of them being what republicans say that they want, well, maybe the issue is that the president needs to sit them down face-to-face and say, listen, i'm not playing politics on this. i'm not joking around. let's talk about this. let's do it. the only way you can get that conversation going is by having face-to-face conversations not with staff, but where those members of congress who spend a whole loot of time vilifying the president, talking smack about the president can look him in it and trust their own judgment about how serious he is, and given the tape of what we saw of all those people coming out of dinner, sounds like they liked what they saw. >> well, it's important also that this sort of happened behind closed doors for both sides, josh. i mean, the thing is the white house probably hasn't done the best job of marketing what's on the table, but they also don't want to talk too much about reforming entitlement programs because democrats on the hill aren't totally excited about passing that legislation. >> well, it's not just that, but republicans have a history of attacking democrats when democrats propose entitlement cuts. the centerpiece of the last two republican congressional campaigns have been attacking democrats for cutting medicare, so i think the white house does want to avoid having their fingerprints all over this too much. i think it makes sense that they're starting with the senate because i think the senate is a little bit less politicized than the hit-or-miss. i think there's a little bit more of a negotiating partner available there, and then some of these senators, people like john mccain, kelly ayotte, lindsey graham, are people that are bothered by the defense cuts and sequester and might be willing to make concessions. what you hear from republicans in the house is, well, all the president has put on the table is tax increases, and that's not true, but half is tax increases, and republicans are never really going to like that. this is the group that you might convince to cut a deal with. >> although lindsey graham said, hey, we will put revenue on the table if the president is serious about entitlement reform, and that was not long ago. we just showed some tape, richard, of paul ryan entering the white house. i think that's -- i mean, look, we talked a lot yesterday about whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, whether it will amount to much. i think at the end of the day it's a win-win situation for both sides. republicans look less obstructionist. the white house looks like they are finally heeding the advice that the president needs to engage more, and the country sees the two sides talking, if not actually doing. >> right. you want to look like you're at least willing to share lunch or maybe a dinner, right? >> at least that. >> i don't know if the sea bass because it's not very good for the environment, at least the chilean kind. >> it's delicious. >> i'm all for people having good food. it's great. i don't want to be a party pooper because everyone suddenly thinks they're all great. i just want to point out a couple of things. during health care reform, the president put in front of republicans their own policies, their own approach to health care reform in particular to people like chuck grassley and said here are the ten things you've always said you wanted to do. will you vote for them? at that point with that piece of legislation, they said no, not going to do it. mostly because it's you. you know, if there were ten people behind me, chuck grassley said, yes, we could do this. something more than just sea bass has to change, and i think that might be the most significant thing out of this week, which is that mitch mcconnell and obviously these are mitch mcconnell's team have made me realize that you can no longer make president obama a one-term president, and if you cannot root for his failure, if you cannot spend four years gunning for him to fail, then you are going to have to do something else while are you in the senate. maybe for some of them it's just dinner. maybe for some of them it is, as tom said this morning, there could be under the guise of tax reform some piece of revenue that they could sign up to. >> and emphasis on do. before we continue to bat this around, let me bring in the woman with all the answers to our questions, nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. >> if that were only so. >> it's true. kelly, let's talk a little bit about the attendees at last night's dinner. some of those names are a lot more familiar than others. mitch mcconnell wasn't on that list. tell us what your read on the invites is. >> well, this was a list put together by lindsey graham, and it really reflects his view of the senate. you've got the mccain-graham-ayotte kind of -- we now call them the new three amigos where you can talking about defense interests. you have people like saxby chambliss that sht going to seek re-election. they've always been considered sort of cooler heads. then you've got two tea party senators, pat thoomey of pennsylvania and ron johnson of wisconsin who do not have a relationship with the president like the others because they weren't in the senate when he was here. it was an interesting mix of bringing people together who represent different parts of the republican party of the moment. it's important for them to go without the leadership. i've heard many times from republicans that this applies to democrats as well. when are you in the leadership, you have almost no running room. everything you say is, in effect, then policy for your party. when you have these other members, they do have a little more breathing room. i've talked to some of them. they really described being surprised at the seriousness the president put forward in his willingness to talk about changes to entitlements, those sorts of things. we were talking about sort of the trust barrier earlier. i think there were people who do not know him as well who were surprised by that. >> let me -- >> they also said that they are talking about revenue, but as you point out, it would be a way to get to revenue, a number of them are, in a context of tax reform, so they are both trying to show some leg in a setting like that to try to, i think, build some trust. >> we all want them to show a little bit more leg, but, kelly, let me ask you, mitch mcconnell is going to face a primary challenge. john cornyn will face a primary challenge. there's only so much they can do in advance of 2014, so maybe this is a brilliant bit of bipartisan strategy here, which is to say the president gets, you know, rank-and-file members on board. he doesn't have to get leadership to sign off on it. they can be protected from challenges at the right ward flank. i mean, that would seem to be part of the idea behind that, right? >> absolutely. although lindsey graham is also up for re-election. it is about trying to put a patchwork together. to not keep repeating the same issues. as richard point the out, you can't make him a one-term president anymore, so put that playbook away. start where we are now. positions people held over the last several years, some of it's relevant, some it not as much. you sort of have to be in the moment, and there is an urgency about trying to get a long-term deal. i think they've taken so many swings that the and failed, people are approaching it with a different attitude. at least some of the group that was a part of this last night. giving them all credit for sitting down, the president did make this happen. they went and attended. we heard from speaker boehner today about the ryan lunch saying he is not taking any message from me. the speaker thoroughly appreciates the fact that the president is talking to members, not just going through leadership. you know, we can make this a data point of bipart sfwlanship in what will be a long set of negotiations. >> we will take as many data points on bipartisanship as we can get. you know, there is talk about blowback from the right whenever, you know, republicans are seen meeting or doing anything in the same frame as the president, but there's also the question of blowback from the left, and matt miller has, i think, a pretty compelling opinion in today's washington post. he writes, "apart from obama care, what's the president's legacy beyond having avoided a second great depression? republicans just got 82% of the bush tax cuts made permanent. they're forcing washington to debate deficits instead of jobs. their dominance of the debate is impressive. if this is how a retrograde party in disarray plays the game, who knows what's in store if republicans get their act together?" >> what a sad legacy to just save the country from the great depression. >> right. fair enough. >> and i think -- >> or catch bin laden or save the -- >> what else have you done? >> that predicate may be flawed. the end point that if this is what the party -- >> i think it's totally legitimate to say that the republican party has had a huge affect on the -- much bigger than the actual size in members in congress. in 2010 when they won back the majority of the house, they turned the discussion very abruptly to deficit reduction. the president decided he had to play that game in order to win back the trust. i think to go back to josh's other points that we're getting a very big tell here about how the white house sees legislative strategy going forward. there is no trigger event like the fiscal cliff or sequestration. they can't win back the house that way. they do not have control of the house floor. john boehner does. they cannot bring a bill through the house. they've decide thad they have to find five republican senators and hold the majority, get something through the senate, and then shame john boehner into acting. they're doing that, i guess -- >> i think john boehner is willing to be shamed. >> he said he would do that with gun control. he said he would do that with gun control. he said if they passed a bill, he would have a vote on the house in that bill. they're hoping that they can do that with budget stuff as well. i don't know if that's going to actually be the case, though. >> the other thing we're not talking about, josh, is social security taxes are capped at $113,700. if we raise that cap, social security would be solvent. >> well, i mean, sure. that's just saying if you did an enormous tax increase, the government would have a lot more revenue sxushgs use it for social security. >> 5.2% of the country makes more than that. >> right, but this is an offset to the income tax, which is highly progressive. you have to look at the tax coated as a system as the hole, and it's a progressive tax code once you include the federal income tax. this is a key part of the president's economic legacy. it's not just health care. he has gotten a much more progressive fiscal policy than coming in, in part because he made 28% of the bush tax cuts permanent. you let expire the ones at the top, and then you oppose -- impose additional tacks as part of obama care that raised another point on earned income and another three points on unearned income. you have rich people paying a lot more taxes in 2014 than they would have in 2008. >> they're also making historically high level -- they're bringing in historically high levels of income. >> but this is a reaction to that, right? you've had this decades long trend of increasing income inequality, and one of the obvious policy responses to that is higher tax on people with high incomes and lower tack on people with lower incomes. i don't love the president's promise not ever to raise taxes on people making under $250,000 a year. i think it's hampered tax reform and caused them to miss the forest through the trees on certain tax reform that is would be progressive, but you could come up with examples of people who made $120,000 a year who paid more. i think that there is something to be said for the idea that in this environment of increasing income inequality, the focus of tax reform should be on higher taxes at the top, and that's exactly where the president's focus has been. >> we have to leave it there. i want to thank the lovely and wise nbc's kelly o'donnell for the latest intel. >> thanks for having me. >> we will surely be coming back with more questions as we continue. >> after the break, rand paul's anti-drone filibuster nearly reached the 13 hour mark, but when you got to go, you got to go. >> i would go for another 12 hours to try to break strom thurmond's records, but i discovered there's some limits to filibustering, and i'm going to have to go take care of one of those. >> real talk. >> we'll discuss paul's marathon and the nasty side effects of filibusters gone wild next on "now." did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age? 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[ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. >> is going to give ammunition to those critics who say that the rules of the senate are being abused. i hope that my colleague on this side of the aisle will take that into consideration. >> to my republican colleagues i don't remember any of you coming down here suggesting that president bush was going to kill anybody with a drone. you know, i don't even remember the harshest critics of president bush on the democratic side. they had a drone program back then. >> that was john mccain and lindsey graham taking senator rand paul to the task for his filibuster of the nomination of cia director john brennan. yesterday the kentucky senator excoriated the administration's drone program. >> when i say this is not a partisan battle i'm true to my word. president bush started this. president obama is expanding this. the real irony, though, is president obama ran as the anti-bush candidate. in the end he is taking presidential power to a new level beyond what president bush could have ever imaged. >> paul was joined by a dozen member, including ron white, a fierce critic of the administration's drone policy, and marco rubio who helped stall for time by quoting jayzee. >> that takes me back to another modern day poi et by the name of jayzee. he wrote it's sudden when days can change. it was all good just a week ago. >> i don't know if sean carter approves of that. a highly partisan filibuster fight was playing out behind the scenes. prior to paul's speech, senate republicans silently filibustered one of the president's picks for the second highest post in the land. first nominated to the d.c. your yut court in 2011, and graduate of princeton and georgetown law has been waiting for an up or down vote for 720 days. every republican senator, except for one, lisa murkowski voted to block her nomination. president obama made his displeasure known. quote, "i am deeply disappointed that despite support from a majority of the u.s. senate, minority of senators continues to block the nomination of katilyn halligan. today's vote continues. the white house also released statistics showing the difference in average wait times between president obama's district court nominees and those of his predecessor. the obstruction pushed democrats, including dick durbin to rethink the decision to not overhaul the filibuster process at the start of this term zoosh i feel sorry for her. i hate to suggest this, but if this is an indication of where we're headed, we need to revisit the reforms. i'm sorry to say it because i was hopeful that a bipart sflan approach to dealing with these issues would work. >> um, richard, who is going to get their paperwork handled first? the 11 million undocumented workers in this -- or political nominees. >> 28 of president obama's 219 judicial nominees have been confirmed. that's a success rate of 12.7%. >> why did they think this would work? >> i don't know. >> how naive do they have to be? charlie brown and the football every time. >> do we need to go out for dinner and figure it out. >> sea bass. >> there's a bigger discussion you raised about pairty, right? well, you did it for bush, and, actual actually. >> nobody cared about anything. >> standards were low. >> yes, there was obstruction, but this is a different time when you have a 13-hour filibuster. when republicans didn't mind going to war when it was a question of it was a threat or not, but maybe the sea bass is a different quality. whatever it is the system isn't working. change the system. >> i don't understand, jonathan, when harry reid had the chance, he had that very, very, very small window, and kind of came up, i believe, his version of reform was cutting down the post-cloture debate time from 30 hours too. that's good. at the end of date you look at that. these are judicial nominations. this is the second highest court in the land. there are four vacation answeries on this d.c. circuit court. four of the nine supreme court justices served on it. to say that it is an important bench is an understatement. >> right. >> republicans have no problem having no one there. >> what happened to that agreement that was made in the senate? what was it called? >> the gang of 14. >> the gang of 14 that, you know, to forestall the nuclear option of what actually just happened, i guess it just blowed up. i mean, i don't know. you know, instead of sea bass and going to the jefferson, maybe what they should do is go to blue duck tavern and have the braised beef rib and talk about -- and talk about how to solve the judicial crisis here. >> i mean, the notion, sam, of the filibuster is -- and why it exists is a gentile parliamentary rules, and there was a sense of -- a bipartisan sense. the senate does things a certain way, and also each party can at one time be in the minority, but you look at how it's being used. i think we have a bar chart. there were 137 cloture motions filed in 2009. >> looks like a contagion. >> it's filibuster contablingon. >> there was always a gentleman's agreement. we would give you a 60 vote provided that the minority party didn't abuse, it and for a while that agreement held. clearly it's not holding anymore, and, you know, when that happens, usually there has to be some sort of response to it, and what's happened twice now is that the majority leader reid has decided against doing something that was -- that would be more bold than these minor changes that he has made. i understand the argument that both sides do. i remember when president obama partook in the filibuster of john roberts, but let's be honest and clear about it. there was a gentleman's agreement back then, and it was that john roberts would ultimately probably get through, and obama was running for presidency, and i continue sounds lame and superficial that he participated in a filibuster, but it was always under the premise that at some point john roberts would get through. that's not happening. there are no gentleman's agreements. this is used as obstructionism. >> i want to return to the actual rand paul blow back because i do think it's really interesting that you have mccain and graham out there excoriating paul for excoriating the administration. it's that, hey, let's pile on if it's aernt white house. we'll take part. is that -- is that -- what is that? where is that coming from? is that because mccain is hawkish and sort of blooefdz e believes in an aggressive counterterrorism strategy, or is that the john mccain of yore standing up for principle? >> oh, well, it is principle, but the principle is about the hawkishness. it's not about senate rules. he is not bothered about obstruction. i think the rand paul filibuster is the exception that proves the rule. i think this was a productive exercise. i think it moved the debate on the drone issue where i tend to lean toward the white house's drone policy, but i am uncomfortable with the way that they're trying to do it in private and avoid public scrutiny of it, and i think this is leading to a useful public discussion. it was actually talking filibuster, which you don't see a lot of, and i think one of the reforms they talked about was forcing people to actually hold the floor if they wanted to filibuster, which i think would have been good in two ways. one is there wouldn't have been as many filibusters, and then people would have had to talk about the thing that was being filibusters. there would be have been news. >> today the conversation has been dominated by the drone program. >> if it became a routine, maybe it wouldn't be that big a deal. >> i don't think it would become routine. >> who wants to talk for 13 hours? >> jonathan, there's another point here, and this gets frequently ignored in terms of -- we're talking about a judicial nominee, and what the president is actually trying to do on the ports. i think this is really interesting. the washington post on sunday had an analysis. they write "in florida president obama has nominated the first openly gay black man to sit on a federal district court. in new york he has nominated the first asian-american lesbian, and his pick for the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. court? the first south asian. what? the new wave of nominations is part of an effort by obama to cement a legacy that long outlives his pregnancy and makes the court system more closely resemble the changing society it governs. i think that is -- that's powerful. gives me a little shiver to think. we talk about our president's legacy. his legacy on the courts may end up being his most long-lasting legacy. >> right. because these are people who serve on the court long after he is gone. the people that are mentioned, remember, there's already -- he already nominated an openly gay federal judge. happens to be a friend of mine. a couple of years ago. judge etkin. this is something where, you know, a lot of people spend a lot of time focussing on these marquee issues, whether it's same-sex marriage or immigration, and if the president doesn't move fast enough, he is against us. he is not leading. he is not doing anything. if you just scratch below the surface just for a minute, you will find a slew of things the president is doing out of the public glare that will have enormous impact on the country and on american society and on the way society views itself, and this is -- this is a prime example. people don't understand the judiciary. they just think these are folks who are in robes and who render judgments, but if you have a judiciary that looks like america and there are people on the bench who look like you -- >> it changes our justice system. >> it changes the way americans view their justice system i think for the better. >> judge caphart. that's what america needs next. >> willing to serve. >> all right. coming up, it's been more than 40 years since the supreme court made roe v. wade the law of the land, but you would not necessarily continue in arkansas. we will examine what is now the nation's most restrictive ban on reproductive rights just ahead. . at a hertz expressrent kiosk, you can rent a car without a reservation... and without a line. now that's a fast car. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. 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country. the law known as the human heart beat protection act bans most abortions at 12 weeks of pregnancy, the point at which a fetal heart beak can be detected by an ultrasound. to say that arkansas is on a campaign to restrict freedoms, would be an understatement. there is only one clinic that provides surgery wal abortions in the whole state. it stands in brazen contradiction to current law that grants women the constitutional right to abortion svgss until the fetus is viable outside the womb. normally 24 weeks into a pregnancy. earlier this week arkansas democratic governor mike bebe vetoed the 12-week ban saying it "blatantly contradicts the united states constitution, as interpreted by the supreme court." yesterday the republican-controlled statehouse and senate were able to override the governor's veto, the bill sponsor state senator is a man who has equated abortions with the holocaust and the ruwandan genocide. 2011 and 2012 were record-breaking years for curbing a woman's right to choose. a slew of medically unnecessary procedures have spread throughout the states. eight states currently ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy. ultrasounds prior to abortion are now required in eight other states. 17 states require preabortion counseling, and 26 states now require a mandatory waiting period. happy belated anniversary, roe v. wade. joining us now is nancy northrop, president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. i'm so outraged by this, nancy, that i am losing my voice one second while i get some water. enlisting that wrath of unnecessary legislation, what strikes me is that this all seems to be part of a larger effort to shame women, which is to say the ultrasounds, the counseling, the waiting period. it's all designed to make what is already an incredibly difficult decision that much harder. >> you can say it's a whole host of laws that say we don't trust women to make a very important personal decision about their lives, and one of the things that the supreme court recognized in roe and again 20 years ago in the casey case was women need to be able to make these decisions, and it's part of their constitutional right to do so. >> we know that there are only four states that have one surgical abortion clinic left. i think that is for a lot of women or men and women in this country who understand that roe v. wade is low of the land, the fact that there are only -- that you would be in north dakota, south dakota, arkansas, and mississippi and there is only one place to go, it is not as if the need has died down, that there is not still, you know -- there are economic, personal, and health reasons why women -- a woman has to make a dig difficult decision like this. my question to you is, and i was asking you this during the break, what is the constituency for these kind of very, very strict -- i would almost say draconian laws around reproductive freedoms. >> there are one states and just one clinic and that's because there's an assault on the rights for going on 40 years. unfortunately, there is a minority in this country that are very intent on overturning roe versus wade and blocking women's ability to have abortion services sxshgt reality is abortion is a service that one in three women in the united states makes the decision to have in her lifetime. it's necessary health care, and this is an assault to try to block her from being able to do that. >> it's worth noting that the president is signing the violence against women act today, and the reason that passed in a bipart sdmran fashion is i think to some degree republicans understood that they could not be on the wrong side of legislation and history and demographics on this one. we saw with richard murdock and todd akin, there are certain areas where it seems increasingly -- certain areas are increasingly political kryptonite, and, yet, there is still a hunger on the state level to go forward with this legislation. you have to wonder at what point does the national party leadership, if it even exists anymore, step -- at what point do they step in and say enough? enough with this? it is not working for us or good for us? it is not good for the party. >> well, on a rationale measure, based on election results, you would say now, but, actually, this isn't a -- there's a parallel with the gun debate. not because you threw that up at the top here, but where you have a national advocacy group, in this case it's about choice, but it could be the nra, which is very effective at the state level, and pushes people on through primaries, the national leadership is not willing to take them off. no matter what the polls say, no matter what the demographics. even where it's relatively easy on immigration where the organization that is anti-immigration reform is perhaps less organized, less effective, although they obviously also have a big platform, even their leadership is having a problem. this isn't about the calculation of what's popular, what's morally justified. it is -- it's payingsat thing that they have to know the base is fired up about, so i -- you know, what is striking is that you can't dismiss any one of these points anymore. you know, this is a long-term project that has been executed vigorously in a sustained way and is having a real impact on the ground, and i think that's what the last election cycle really displayed for everyone. there were random comments from todd akin or some other candidate. this was part of a concerted campaign that led that language to appear in their heads even if they mangled it when they came out. >> resulted in legislation too. >> i think to your point. mcdonnell is effective and has been for a while now. it was not a politically popular thing to do, and it suffered. in mississippi there's a case where the expectation was, oh, it's mississippi. we'll pass this thing, and it got beat back fairly easily. there were national figures who were asked about it and were very -- >> litmus test. >> i know mitt romney had his whole problem answering it. by and large, he tried his best to distance himself from it. i do think there are occasions where the national republican party recognizes it it's sending a divisive message. i think that will continue to be the case. >> let me just say i think part of the problem also, nancy, is that there are no women in these state legislations. in arkansas there are 100 house members, 16 are women. of the 35 state senators, only six are women. i mean, you look at the -- you compare the guns piece. there is the -- in south dakota it has one of the longest mandatory waiting times in the country. if you want to have an abortion. there is no waiting period for a handgun. in the balancing act here, it seems wildly off, and perhaps one of the reasons there's not -- one of the reasons there's not more outcry, not more pushback is because the representation is overwhelmingly decidedly male. >> well, i think that's obviously part of the problem. when you have women in office, it makes a difference. it also really -- you don't -- your comparison with the guns is important to look at because what we're seeing is just not trusting women, and i think that's what we saw in the last election that got women and men who support them, you know, outraged, right? because they could see whether it was virginia's ultrasound case or others that women's decision making is not being trusted, and i think we're starting to turn a corner on the public saying, you know, enough. we want to draw the line about this. let's give the responsibility back to women. they don't need to be baby-sat by male dominated legislatures. >> oh, nancy. it's an uphill climb sometimes, it seems, but not reason to give up the fight by any stretch of the imagination. thank you to nancy northrop from the center for reproductive rights. great to have you. >> thank you. >> coming up, rare is the trekky who prefers captain john luke baccard to captain kirk. so too with the republicans and the line-up at cpac. we will look at the conference's so-called next generation just ahead. 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>> yes, mitt romney, who they didn't even like last go round. i just wrote down some names of people who i thought for sure would be invited to cpac. governor susannah metro nez of new mexico. mia love, governor scott walker, wisconsin, paul ryan, the vice presidential nominee. that to me is next generation. not retreads who have been in one way or another embarrassed the party, embarrassed national discourse, and quite frankly, embarrassed themselves. >> it's not, you know -- forget the headliners for a second because you can invite whoever you want as speaker. i think the real problem here is not inviting pro gay rights conservative groups that is a message of bigotry, lack of inclusion, that don't think serbs the party very well, and i know is deeply offensive to a lot of people in the conservative movement and shouldn't be taken lightly. >> josh, it would almost seem independent of not sag taking the party two steps forward, it would seem to be almost taking the party two steps back when you have not only the gay rights issue, but you have someone like mitt romney who the party is desperately trying to get itself away from the shadow of the 47% comments and here he comes. >> well, i think the forces behind cpac are trying to draw certain lines you have social conservatives organized in the conference who don't want gay marriage to become one of these issues where conservatives say, well, we need people on both sides. we're effectively going to say it's less important than the fiscal policy issues. for some people that's not why they're involved in the conservative movement. they don't want to voernd the gay marriage issue. similarly, the common thread you see with martinez and mcdonnell and chris christie, these are all governors that have taken the medicare expansion. they view that as betrayal. this has been kousht productive. i think cpac is taking some of the most popular elected officials at the state level -- case itch, the governor of ohio, is also not invited. these are people that are popular in their states. >> doing the hard work of governing. >> taking the medicaid expansion is part of that. that's good policy. the federal government is offering you money that you can take or leave to benefit the people of your state. unless your primary priorities -- you're going to take the money. those people will have a future for the party, but it's not what a lot of the hard right people involved with cpac want. we overstate the importance of cpac. i have been on a panel at cpac. who is at cpac is college students and old retirees. the speeches get covered on -- sometimes people that want to run for president can make a splash on that, but really this is not the organizing function of the republican party, so i think cpac is a basket case. a lot of conservatives now think it's a basket case, but -- >> it's a zoo. i have been there. that's my point. forget the headliners. it's the message sent about inclusion that i think matters. >> they're inviting donald trump. they are inviting donald trump. >> when you mention trump and sarah palin. they are rabble-rousers rather than a spiritual place where deep thought can happen, and that's fine. they'll get the headlines, and they'll sell a few tickets, but what's worrying for anyone with serious national aspirations of the republican party is that this is alarmingly close to the mainstream. that's the problem. >> well, there are sure to be big tweets if not big thoughts of donald trump. >> are you going to be there? >> i'm not going to be there. i think they've built a wall to prevent me from being there. i will see you tomorrow at noon eastern when i'm joined by former obama deputy campaign manager stephanie cut ar, chris hayes, melissa harris perry, and kim, and buzz feed's ben smith. until then, you can find us at facebook.com/now with alex. andrea mitchell reports is next. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. love your passat! um. listen, gary. i bought the last one. nice try. says right here you can get one for $199 a month. you can't believe the lame-stream media, gary. they're all gone. maybe i'll get one. 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i'm for no more. >> the economic damage from the latest self-inflicted wound will almost certainly cause hardship for hundreds of thens of struggling americans. 150,000 people can lose their job and take a major hit. if you know one thing for sure, for each of these battles, first of debt ceiling and remarks like boehner's have been damaging with the goppo brand. most americans would like a deal to consist of new spending cuts and revenue. a "washington post" poll published wednesday found that just 26% of americans approve of the way they are handling public spending. by contrast, 43% approved of the way president obama is handling spending. republicans seem to be failing political low and achieving at the goals and setting the terms of the debate in washington. everyone is talking about how it best to achieve austerity and no one is talking about how to get back to full employment as the president said. >> not only congress, but washington in general spends all its time talking about deficits and not a lot of time talking about how do we get out of this. >> the lone few voices of sanity has been memberses of the congressional caucus. they remain marginalized in getting people to focus on the deficit. many call it a victory despite their costs. they set up the cuts and said this will be the first significant victory. what we got will set out in changing washington. >> the trajectory of people's way that they are being spun. the sequester is a bad thing and it's obama's fault hence the hash tag. at the end they said it's a good thing. i felt like members of the tea party caucus. they said look, this is what we wanted. paul ryan said this in 2011. do you view this as a success for fellow travelers? >> absolutely. i think you are right in terms of republicans. the last part i would point out is if we are talking about the balanced approach with revenues and spending cuts, that's the fiscal cliff. that was part of this debate. >> for started last year. >> we were supposed to have the biggest hike in history. they kicked out three months, but if you are looking for revenues, you already had it. >> it runs a good article and with the sequester in place, we are on track to get the $4 trillion of deficit deduction. a small amount of people would tuck too each other. that was the target. with the sequester we have, the ratio of spending cuts for the one. simpson bowles was 2-1. if you are looking in terms of the raidio, it's the spending cut side. >> madi did a thing that republicans do which is start talking about the tax increases that had a part of the fiscal curb deal. i don't see why you get the spending cuts that started with the budget control act. if you add on the other trillions in ongoing cuts, you get to the ratio. regarding your introduction, another person has been talking about this in terms of jobs which i believe is the most immediate deficit we face. it is i think a very bad out come that republicans and democrats have contributed to that were stuck in hair on fire deficit obsession of which i believe is a medium or long-term constraint and not an immediate one. >> it's important what you said about democrats. bill clinton and i am not blaming him, but he touted surpluses. talking about surpluses and deficits as opposed to job and it is economy. this is the box that politics are now in. dick cheney was the guy who said deficits don't matter. >> to a point they don't matter. if you are a conservative, you looka the size, but you don't care the government is not taking, but that they are overspending. >> thank you for being honest. conservatives don't care about the deficit. >> it's the rhetorical device. it's not the product we are focusing on. >> 1,000% true. >> i don't see why it's a problem to say that. size of government is the problem. >> that's what you care about. >> don't you use it to reduce the size of government? >> the size of government means many, many things. deficit, that relates to people and it's a narrative that people understand. >> i don't think it does relate to people, but i agree. you want to make sense to ignore when they care for the deficit. the people who are ideologically committed to reducing the size of government. >> george bush was not someone who cared about the size of government. >> that's correct. is he the token republican? >> he's not a token. he led the party for eight years. >> in a certain sense it's making the reagan argument. by saying we should be focused on jobs and growing the economy. >> and stephanie, you are an academic who does academic work concluding what dick cheney sides right. >> it's not that the deficits don't matter, but they don't matter in the way people think they matter. the democrats give them help along the way and focus on the deficit and use that for cover to do the things they want to do. go after the progressive ooh jenda and dismantle and undermine the great society and the new deal and pull apart the things. >> here's the thing about that. this gets to what i think is fascinating. my emerging pet theory is that the republican party, i'm not convinced. i used to be convinced they wanted to go after social security and medicare. based on their behavior, i am convinced they don't want cuts to medicare and social security. they don't want to make cuts to current beneficiaries. that's their base. b, poll republicans about social security. tea party. wildly unpopular. if they really wanted cuts to social security and medicare. they could have had it by now. it is extended time and time again. i want to show the president complaining about the fact that he tried to give them this and they won't take yes for an answer. they talked about the deficit reduction. >> i put forward a claim that calls for serious spending cuts and entitlement reforms and goes right at the problem that is at the heart of a long-term deficit problem. i offered negotiations around that that offers a balanced approach. >> and it's nowhere. an off the record briefing said if the president would offer something like chain cpi which is a different calculation, in real terms, they said if you get somewhere, that's in the one-page thing they propose. >> hold that thought. i want to take a break and come back and talk about who wants to cut entitlements. after this. living with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis means living with pain. it could also mean living with joint damage. humira, adalimumab, can help treat more than just the pain. for many adults, humira is clinically proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your rheumatologist about humira, to help relieve your pain and stop further joint damage. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. the only thing republicans want more than getting out social security and entitlements is not compromising with the president. that seems to be the case to me. they are being handed this. the president said we will go with you and make the cuts and they said no, we don't want them. >> to understand the republican position you have to understand that their major objective goals one, two, and three is shielding high income people from any tax increase. that's where it hits. they also say they are for smaller government, but since they as you suggest and you do as well, don't want to touch the entitlements for ten years and then after that probably another ten years. that doesn't leave a lot, but they are wacking away with the budget and tends to fall on low income people. >> i disagree entirely. republicans don't want to cut entitlements and i would argue they want to save entitlements. that's what you see in house republican budgets that have passed the house. >> by making the benefits smaller or changing them. >> the other point is that republicans don't want to cut defense spending. what are we sitting here talking about? >> hold on a minute. >> she's right. there two views. that was belated. >> you got the revenues january 1. >> back in my state of colorado, i remember this seminole moment where the republicans and the tea party republicans are talking about cutting government and the sequester government starts & a couple of senators talk about how we can't cut defense. cutting defense would mean a loss of jobs and national security and i made the point thaw can't say defense creates jobs. >> part of the thinking behind the sequester is republicans are so against defense cuts they will come to the table. there enough republicans who don't feel it. >> they came to be okay with it. here's my alternative proposal. this is a poorly designed thing. it turned out like a nerf. everyone was comfortable. here's whey say to get people to get a deal. you have to find something that everyone in washington really hates. if you top the come to a deal, a $1 trillion combo program and debt forgiveness program, that will get people to the table. if they don't come up with a deal as the government starts doing a correct hiring of people, half of it is hiring and half is debt forgiveness. the problem was, they thought search going to hate this so much they will come to the table, the republicans came to stop the defense cuts. >> you are talking about republicans winning. as a small government and libertarian-type, this is promising for someone like me who sees republicans. >> i think that's the big question. >> is it only a conserfative victory. you could make the argument that the sequestration cuts to defense are a backdoor thing. >> they have been in that argument. from the perspective that we still have 8% unemployment, what's so perverse is there is a broad consensus that we need a short-term counter cyclical policy and the deficit problems are genuinely mid-to long-term. what happened is the absolute reverse. nothing happened in any of these deals to do anything about the mid-to long-term. the affordable care act has been about short-term construction. austerity and none of the stuff that the. >> pete:ersons of the world do. it's a perverse out come. >> not only austerity, but we have absolutely no reason to suppose that there is a medium or long-term problem. the problem is reflective in somebody calculating and forecasting inflation in the future. that's when you know you have concerns about the deficit. you are going to see there is an inflation forecast. it means we will have too much demand and inflation in the future. where is the credible study and the forecast? >> where is the market pricing? >> where is it anywhere that the deficit is a problem. >> explain what tips are. >> those are securities that investors can pile into with inflation over the long-term. it is absolutely not there. not in medium or short-term. the republicans by and large have convinced everybody that we have this long-term deficit problem. they are able to sell this austerity in the short-term. if it's coming, we might as well act now and that's how you get people to support the awful policies that make the conditions worse. >> i want to make the argument that barack obama is the only man in washington who is being honest about what he is trying to do. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain. but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer. you don't decide when vegetables reach the peak of perfection. the vegetables do. at green giant, we pick vegetables only when they're perfect. then freeze them fast so they're are as nutritious as fresh. 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[ male announcer ] the durability of the volkswagen passat. pass down something he will be grateful for. good arm. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ back to you. ah. 4g, huh? verizon 4g lte. 700 megahertz spectrum, end-to-end, pure lte build. the most consistent speeds indoors or out. and, obviously, astonishing throughput. obviously... you know how fast our home wifi is? yeah. this is basically just as fast. oh. and verizon's got more fast lte coverage than all other networks combined. so it's better. yes. oh, why didn't you just say that? huh-- what is he doing? the hair on fire brigade. what was remarkable, this is basically enunciating that he is with the president. he doesn't say that, but the concept is what barack obama is offering. take a listen. >> a program like simpson bowles that had about $3 of spending cuts for every dollar of revenue, and all the attacks all of the a r aspects on the budge uh which is on the table, they are all on the table. it's the right way to approach this problem. i would be much happier with a program that was focused on long-term and as i say had investment in the short-term. >> that is basically barack obama's position. what i find ironic is the only person in washington who genuinely wants a grand bargain is barack obama. and also the menacing bully that famously threatened. they want it. they believe in it and i don't think they are playing politics when they say it. the irpy and the beltway obsessed with this are most angry barack obama for not getting it done. even though he is the only person who wants it. >> the politics in washington are no longer about dealing with it. there was a closing window and ability to make any kind of deal. we talk on your show a couple of months ago about how barack obama himself has become the culture war. anything he does is what the republicans have to be against. you say his name and among the republican base is fires up. when the republicans go back to their districts and they have to worry about mostly a primary. as opposed to facing a democratic opponent. whatever barack obama is proposing, they don't want to face a republican opponent. >> in anyone has a doubt of what they say is true, remember back to the campaign where they made a two-part argument. the president refuses to tackle entitlements. he wants to cut your medicare. enough said about that. i think where the problem comes is that the president recognizes that there -- we disagree on this, but there long pressures particularly on health care spending. that is a larger problem. it is an economic constraint. some president who is a very intelligent guy who recognizes inefficiencies, but when you bring that into this context, it turns into slash and burn and cut social insurance in ways that are unacceptable to me and most of the american people. >> you guys don't want to, americans and taxes and the constituency you represent. do you want to cut spending and keep taxes low? >> that's the thing. if you are saying that the republican position is anti-obama, for our part, it's hard to see what that is. he takes credit for the cuts and talks about turning off the sequester. he talks about complexity in the tax code and in the same breath he talks about new credits and tax treatment for energy companies he likes and not what he doesn't like. it's difficult to talk about this in a consistent manner. it's a smaller government. >> but there is a promise that barack obama wants a brand bargain. if he wanted a grand bargain and i think he does, perhaps he's a poor negotiator. where a republican doesn't want to look like they are making a deal with barack obama, then if barack obama wants a grand bargain in this middle, he would take a position that is far to the progressive left so that republicans could politically show they forced him to a middle. that's not what he has done. >> if you have got a progressive agenda if you are barack obama, it is thing that's interesting is if democrats were so committed to having the bush tax cuts expire. they had two years where nancy pelosi was in control and barack obama was in the white house. they didn't do anything about it. it's interesting to hear they want a grand bargain and priorities. >> there other priorities, but he is correct in that there were not that many democrats who wanted to see them. that included barack obama. >> i think the point he is making and i agree with a different version. when the democrats were controlling to the extent they ever did, when they had a majority in the senate and the white house, they were on domestic legislation on changes to the u.s. code. health care reform and dodd frank and fiscal policy, when the tea party swept into power, everything changed to the budget. we went from talking about -- it's very different than newt gingrich in 1994. america had a bunch of priorities like for instance welfare reform. this republican caucus doesn't seem to have priorities in terms of domestic policy. >> why didn't democratic leaders step up in 2010 and say the tea party is wrong? that's the thing i never have been able to wrap my head around. the acceptance overall. >> for has been partially a democratic position. i worked on campaigns in my previous life before i was a journalist and democrats in red states and blue states would say the calculus was as long as i say i'm against a deficit and everything else looks like that. >> there is no counter narrative on the progressive side. it's epic. >> except for kansas city. >> and a couple. he is extremely strong on the austerity stuff. he hasn't come out and said in the long run i'm not concerned about the deficit. just fundamentally reject the premises that it's a problem. >> no one. >> that does so much damage. >> for sets the center. >> to any agenda that you can promote for good policy in the short-term. >> saying he solved the sequester. we will dig into that after this break. mallon brothers magic? watch this -- alakazam! ♪ [ male announcer ] staples has always made getting office supplies easy. ♪ another laptop? 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[ earl ] see how much you could save by switching to straight talk. and get the lg optimus dynamic. walmart. . >> thanks to the rhetoric, the austerity. those left of center think the programs to cut. they are advocating and marshalling the language and logic of austerity to advocate their goals. martin o'malley did that when he explained why he wants to a polish the state's death penalty. >> the death penalty is expensive and does not work and we should stop doing it. it's time to appeal and replace it with life without parole. >> prosecuting a death row case costs about three times as much as life without parole. on friday they began debating a bill that requires 24 votes to pass and 26 senators publicly to vote for him. maryland lawmakers do pass in part because advocates focus their message on the consequences of the death penalty. not just the death penalty, they became the first states to fully legalize marijuana. the tens of millions of dollars of tax revenue. the criminal justice reforms reigned in the complex of prudence that offers the means of tactical victories. that we are broke doesn't produce strategic cost. the professor at new york school of law and founder and executive director and nonprofit organization that focuses on discrimination and the justice system. the research director for the national priorities project and more transparency and the federal budget. the cofounder of presidente.org and contributor to the magazine, you are not speaking in your capacity of founder propertied here. i think this is interesting. they did this teaming up with them and you are operating out of alabama, a very conservative state where the politics are very intense. i have seen that firsthand. is that a means of making the arguments about the death penally reform in a place like alabama? >> i think it's necessary and i don't think it compromises anything. there costs to mass incarceration and the death penalty. some are moral and some are just. you want to accumulate the costs for those who have largely been indifferent to the excess and the death penalty. it's a necessary argument and i think it enhances those in california and trying to get a public appeal and the referendum. they organize the all-around cost. california will spend $200 million a year. that is insane. >> a billion dollars in the next five years and nobody will be executed. the question is, is it worth it? the reality is it doesn't give us a fair death penalty. it's a necessary and effective argument. >> this is to fill in the details on the spending in california, you can take a look at how that breaks down. federal appeals and state appeal. it's a staggering number. >> for advo cates it's necessar. i don't support violent crime. i don't think that's a good thing. too many of my clients have been victimized by a lack of services and lack of attention. so the resources can be deployed. maryland's bill can make money for the families of those who lost loved ones. california's bill was aimed at helping to solve the 34% of homicides. the 46% of the rates that don't dissolve, mostly for the communities. if you are concerned about public safety, these economic arguments make links. >> it's not austerity politics, but rechannelling the investments. >> i agree. i want to ask the question you can't make victories that you have to make a strategic pivot. what is that on the death penalty. >> we have been talking about economic costs. the more complicated question is in the late 1980s when they said we are not going to abolish the death penalty. that was talking about juveniles and people with mental disabilities. that's a complicated question because they are trying to make it more palatable and that might sustain the death penalty. this is not that. this is really trying to get people to appreciate all of the cost and moral and political and all of those costs. there is not much to be lost. >> in colorado, i was struck by how fiscally focused that was. there was money for schools and you don't even know what it was. that was the advocates for legalization in colorado that it was a two-pronged message. they will tell you that the money argue am in the context of what we could use the money for in a state that doesn't well fund the schools, but coupled with that was the idea that if alcohol is legal, so should marijuana be legal. why would a more unsafe drug not be. they will tell you and what came out is you have to couple a cost argument and a financial cost with something else. people in america have shown a pension for being willing to spend and overspend on things that they believe is right. the best example of that, the iraq war. 1 trillion or $2 trillion. the country believed we should do it and cost wasn't an issue. >> that tends to be the case when we are talking about defense. austerity never seems to touch defense. somewhat remarkably. >> we are in a special moment. in april they will file taxes and 27 cents on every dollar will have been spend on the military. nobody looked at that and now americans are saying that's ridiculous. that crosses party lines. if you poll people, they want to cut about 18% from defense spending and washington hasn't yet gotten the memo. >> they have gotten the memo. >> just now starting to see changes. >> in this case i worry the most. obviously i have been around left politics since i was a wee little boy and it will be a great day when the military has a bake sale and the schools have all the money they need and there is too much money for the war. that has been around forever. politics in particular. in this moment it seems like we have this weird thing and we are endorsing austerity. it's happening where we say we can't afford this money. we have to let it cut down. >> for requires a complicated message. saying deficit reduction is not the most urgent priority. it electrics like we are here for the time being and we can make smart long overneeded cuts to the pentagon. yes, that will cost jobs, but government cuts will cut them and you get more bang for your buck from the pentagon or education sectors. >> it's not a don't spend. it's a spent differently. >> you focus on cost and such a focused way is devious. as far as the visionary you need to build to take us out of the massive crisis that we are now going to follow. when are talking about drug use, you are not talking about the criminals in the drug equation. who is making the profit from prisons? who is making the profit from policing. that's not part of the discussion. >> hold that thought. i want to that are quickly. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours and help plan for your retirement. visit a branch or call now for your personal retirement review. email marketing from constant contact reaches people in a place they're checking every day -- their inbox. and it gives you the tools to create custom emails that drive business. it's just one of the ways constant contact can help you grow your small business. sign up for your free trial today at constantcontact.com/try. if by blessed you mean freaked out about money well we suddenly noticed that everything was getting more expensive so we switched to the bargain detergent but i found myself using three times more than you're supposed to and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back to tide. they're cuter in clean clothes. thanks honey yeah you suck at folding [ laughs ] [ female announcer ] one cap of tide gives you more cleaning power than 6 caps of the bargain brand. [ woman ] that's my tide, what's yours? . >> you want to respond? >> none of the advocates are making just economic costs. i don't actually think the economic arguments would be effective today if we hadn't shown over the last 15 years we are putting innocent people on death row. it's unreliable. the data that said for every ten people executed, one innocent people is identified. i don't think these economic arguments would have the force with the country that has been nurtured on the politics of anger. every elected official said you can never be too tough on crime, you need a narrative to retreat from that and cost is effective. >> i want to show the effectiveness of that. i think it's interesting. 1976 and 66 in favor and reaches a peak in 1994. now it's back down to 63%. we have seen over the last 20 years, a fairly significant erosion of support for the death penalty. >> they are criminals and should get the death penalty. the conversation is not including what used to be the law up until the 19th century. state and federal governments have the right to dismantle the public good. a death penalty corporation. >> i want to be clear. dissolution of the charter. not the killing of the individuals. dissolving the charter. >> when are we going to have that conversation since they are the people according to the law? >> this gets to where you want to push out the boundaries. who gets punished and who doesn't? who do they wayne down upon and where are they allowed to do what they want? getting stopped and fisked on the street. at the same time if you have to go to a state rep who is a conservative democrat representing a suburb of birmingham and doing the swing vote on a bill, none of that will matter. it's the same thing if you are working for congress. >> if the most effective argument that puts it over the top puts it over the top, you move heaven and earth to have the policy in place. if that tips the scales, i absolutely think we need not worry. we have to couch the debate enough to keep your eyes on the prize. >> i will bring up an example about what happened in colorado. the legislature came within one vote of appealing the death penalty tow take the money and put it into the office to pursue the cold cases. a similar approach. you got within one vote. it is progress. the economic argument it wasn't enough to go to those conservative democrats and conservative republicans and say this is enough to vote for because i think they fear that an issue like the death penalty or the drum war is a religious issue. people say well, i may think it's better to save the money than not have the death penalty. killers deserve to die and i don't want more drugs on the street. >> that's the reason why people have to understand. you can see it's acceptable and reject it as policy. you are trying to create space for that to happen. i think you say i am too progressive or too liberal or this to sulley my support and opposition to the death penalty by polluting the arguments. only the most protected and elite people can allow these violations to persist and not feel it. i'm thinking that anything getting to reform has to be open about it. >> with the drug argument, they understood that in order to get it passed, you have to make it with drugs. >> i want to talk to you about immigration and that's a place where they have been talking a bit and have a bigger conversation that and we will hit on that after this break. and now hot pink toes. seems tough for a tough dog like duke. but when it has anything to do with gwen, he's putty in her hands. for a love this strong, duke's family only feeds him iams. compared to other leading brands, it has 50% more animal protein... ...to help keep his body as strong as a love that can endure anything... even every fashion trend. iams. keep love strong. ah. 4g, huh? verizon 4g lte. 700 megahertz spectrum, end-to-end, pure lte build. the most consistent speeds indoors or out. and, obviously, astonishing throughput. obviously... you know how fast our home wifi is? yeah. this is basically just as fast. oh. and verizon's got more fast lte coverage than all other networks combined. so it's better. yes. oh, why didn't you just say that? huh-- what is he doing? . from new york, i'm chris hayes with brian stevenson. they cramer and david from salon.com and roberto novato from the nation. strange and interesting intersection between austerity rhetoric and progressive priorities in the way in which the constant emphasis at the state level, at the federal level it's a mirage. it's less so. they have to balance their budgets and figure out the deficits and can't get the money. at the state level particularly, a lot of groups found ways of marshalling the language of austerity and budget constraint to the further progressive end. at the federal level, it has to do with pearing back the complex. there is a tangled politics of this immigration where it was reported and later confirmed and announced that the dhs was releasing a number of immigrant detainees who had been picked up on nonviolent infractions and at first it looked like a few hundred and then a few thousand. when they were confronted about this, they said look, we have the sequester coming up and we have a budget that said we can't have these people in our beds. the immigrant rights advocates noted that the cost is 162 to $164 a day. anywhere from 30 cents to $14 a day. this struck me as part of a larger conversation about just how much money we have been spending on the world enforcement in immigration. >> in the past 26 years, you spent about $186 billion enforcement. in order to do that you have to criminalize them. you have to -- democrats and republicans are in their policies right now and imgrans are criminals. that's why you have president obama declaring more people by the end of this year than all presidents from george washington to bill clinton combined. something is fabulously wrong with -- i don't know that immigrant rights are focused on that. there was an action on the group with the university in florida. the immigrant coalition and state actions against the florida university. they were accepting the stadium. >> we talked about that which is a pruft private prison organization that makes money off and runs the detention centers for people in the custody. >> who is making money off of all this? in this case it would be the creeks corporation of america and prison builders and prison managers and police unions, probation unions. a whole slew of interests that are the barriers to real reform that would stop president obama from deporting so many people. >> the anti-immigrants are banking on the idea that people in their base will be fired up by the idea of more undocumented immigrants. >> it's a huge story from the right wing media that president obama is letting them run through the streets. >> i thought you were for shawlshawl smaller government. how the politics play out will be rooted both in the financials of it and in how comfortable america is with immigration in general. >> part of this and this is why i think the project is key here. the way that we think about what government does is that we as citizens, particularly activists aren't engaged in the process of making trade offs. you are advocating for adults. then the representational system where things are prioritized. often by who has the most political power. there is an industry that relies on massive attention and they visit your office and write you checks. the politics happens along the single actions and it's fed into the system that produces the pie chart that is the budget that has distorted priorities about where we spend our money. >> immigration enforcement is part of a bigger bundled mess. right now we are at the 10-year anniversary of the department of homeland security. it was the appearance of a solution and a sprawling bureaucracy built. talk about trade offs. since 9/11, wey spent $800 billion on homeland security that. amount substantially more than the cost of the new deal. inflation adjusted terms. >> but it also makes the point they feel like what's remarkable about the right is that they are able to simultaneously advocate austerity and designate certain things as sacred. the logic of budgetary impact. >> it's harder and harder to make the case where we ought to spend more than the next 16 largest militaries could. >> barney frank said before 9/11, we had nothing and we can't spend. the day after 9-11, we had an unlimited amount of money to do anything. >> it boggles the mind to figure out who is right. calling them criminals and jailing them because they have a broken tail light which is what the current administration to immigrants, what is right? what is left is very clear because there is a clear movement where we talk about the economic costs of improvening peop people, but we are pulling away from moral argument because right voters really support arguments for immigration reform. now some of us are like -- >> that will be interesting because when the fight gets taken to the national level and if this thing passes, it's going to pass by thin margins. people will say that. if you need these swing voters and a utah republican to vote with you. he doesn't want to hear roberto's radical critique. >> i remember the immigration 20 years ago was not even an issue. now the massive industries and we have these dehumanization of hate crimes and people dying in the desert because of the current policy. you can't vis rate the moral -- >> that's part of the challenge. 20 years ago we didn't have the economic interests that wanted thousands of people detained. you are right with the correctional associations of america. you have economic interests and the industrial complex. you had people on campus and political seconds and legislatures. advocated and lobbying for more immigrant attention. we have 2.3 million prison beds that they want full. for the first time in history, you have people profiting from the excesses and you don't have an effective counter to the infusion of money. never the case that people lobbied for people to punish. you never had to do that. huh this set of interest that is pushing for lots of dollars. and they have no economic ability to counter. >> part comes back to this phenomenon called. >> 'tis paer ting budgets. they are making the trade offs themselves as opposed to these feeding into the representati representational system. when people are making the trade offs, they look more progressive than the trade offs made under the hydraulic pressure of interest groups that have a certain monetary state. >> however people identify before they go into these things, they come with a huge agreement with taxes on the wealthiest and the spending. more on education. >> we are not just like pulling it, there was a long sign with people doing this. >> sequestration is with the word in spanish that means kidnapping. that leads to the great hope of our political moment to let politics and not just with more latinos who are more left than ever, but with the welfare state being shattered and dismantled and the wealth cap growing to the 80s and 70s, you are now going to see as we saw the kinds of social media and they are going to think outside of the electoral box. >> you are painting rush limbaugh's words. i will see you back at the bottom of the show. will changing public opinion on gay rights force the gop to be more reducive? 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can until this issue is reconciled and figured out. >> then the rock ridge conservative board of the gnarl view weighed in, writing as friends of cpac and advocates, we never excluded that they excluded the group. the issue of homosexuality is not monolithic and makes up a better part of the cpac attendees. we hope they will be better equipped to do so with the gambit of views included. also this week more than 100 republicans made it look very prominent and are sending a legal brief argueing it should strike down california and putting them in context on the issue with john boehner and the platform. they find the party is not immune to changing public opinion and whether they are in their response, they will see in the coming months and years. we have four conservatives at the table. the lead writer and founder of the president's strategies and a member of go skproud former homeland communication director. the news foundation and senior editor of the american spectator magazine and director of the budget and grover norquist for tax reform. i think this is super fascinating because there is a bunch of different ways in which this is playing out. liz, you were involved i think in the kind of conservative debates. do you think momentum is in your direction? >> i do. it depends when you break it down issue by issue, but you look at debates with same-sex marriage, the developments you have seen over the last week or so really do indicate that opinion within the conservative movement is moving in the same-sex marriage direction. you will still have debates about hate crimes and anti-discrimination and things of that nature, but as far as same-sex marriage is concerned with don't ask, don't tell, more and more conservatives are favoring. yeah. >> they had 120 republicans signing it. almost all people are not current elected officials. people formally in office. big donors. >> i did not put my name on the brief before it was filed. >> okay. there were a number of people who work with strategists and people who do not have to face republican primary electorates signing this letter, there is a reluctance among people who can actually vote to stand up. it was interesting when the senate voted to legalize gay marriage a couple weeks ago, there was one republican vote and what i read in terms of backgrounds, republicans wanted protects for religious institutions in the bill over and above what was in it originally. they got to provide a vote for the bill. they got exactly one. they got in a room and drew straws. sorry, dude. you have to vote for it. i don't know what the progress means when it's behind the scenes and it doesn't translate into support. >> i would just say with regard to that, i think it's important to look at what's going on at the state level. that is what has been moving forward from the legislative standpoint. you point to illinois. i would urge you to take a look at new hampshire. you have a fairly conservative republican majority that was pressured to repeal major and they didn't do it. there was sufficient republican report for keeping same-sex marriage. >> if you take a look at that what the polls were saying in 1996 when the marriage act was passed, 27% of the american people supported same-sex marriage at that time. if you look at the polls in the late 2012, the polls show about 30% of the republicans support same-sex marriage. while the country as a whole is supporting same-sex marriage, republicans are still the public opinion is where it is in the mid 90s. when you look at numbers of the republicans and evangelicals, it's likely that it will change, but it is going to be very gradual. that i think is what is producing the conflict between a lot of party leaders who are concerned about how this issue will affect the party's prospects and a lot of rank and file. >> i looked at the data and the move really is with democrats and independents and not that dramatic with republicans. there is a 75-25 issue for republicans, meaning 3/4 of the republicans you poled are opposed and a quarter support it. that to me is interesting about this. it also seems to me, there is kind of an elite base disconnect here. the folks who make up and are in my twitter more conservatives and make up the elite conservatism or working full time as republican operatives. i think if you poled them or the cpac attendees, you may get higher support than if you poll your representative sample primary voters. >> i would agree. as a conservative libertarian working in washington, i care about fiscal policy, but those young people who are experiencing politics for the first time are concerned about whether or not they are going to be employed and going to enjoy the same freedom in academic exposure they had that their parents may have had rather than a course of government saying it's legal or not legal. to me, it's more focused on what government is and how they are getting involved. >> i think there is this determined strategy with people within the movement particularly around the tea party to turn the attention from the movement from social issues to these fiscal issues and smaller government and taxes and things like that. it has been effective, but it's the same base. this idea that is a different base that swung on a bunch of evangelicals on issues they care deeply about, that's only nine years ago. it's not like we have this new party. it's the same people. >> it seems like an underhanded ploy. >> i think it also reflects how the party operates and reflects that conservatives are okay with something their issue this is something they care about. gay marriage is their issue. we are okay with that. you don't need to have it. >> they are not okay on the other side of the issue. >> i don't think that's necessarily true and i want to jump back to the point you were making about the grass roots. it's not true to say they are overwhelmingly opposed, if you look at them, they have a larger share of republicans. again, if you look at new hampshire, it's a massive legislature. >> they have lockers. >> the number of people who are represented in the new hampshire general court is minute compared to any you see anywhere else. those guys wouldn't have been able to get away with taking a pro same-sex marriage stance if that wasn't reflective of what you saw with the grass roots. >> what are matty said, for those who are urging cpac to go in, this is not intensity for them either. they are saying well, really leave the focus on the issues that matter. i don't know why it's a message that should sell to social conservatives. the argument is -- >> exactly. this issue is changing and demographically falling away from us, but if you were a posed and that's the issue that is important to you, you should want to fight on that. even at political cost. it's an interesting mirror. when you talk about it on the show, the head of it said the marriage is great, but before you get married you have to have a date and you can't get a date without a job. you can't tell people what they feel intensely about. i want you to respond to that after we take a break. 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[ male announcer ] the durability of the volkswagen passat. pass down something he will be grateful for. good arm. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ back to you. you made an interesting point. the intensity trade off. you believe in x, y, or z. one of the issues you argue over thanksgiving dinner and the polls. we confusion the two a lot in politics. it leads to a lot of confusion generally. if your issue is this issue, you can't be convinced to not care about the issue. that's what you care about. right on queue, president brian brown announce they will spend 500,000 to defeat republican who is support gay marriage and defeat any republican who votes in favor of same-sex marriage. they need to look no further than what happened to gop senators in new york. we helped take out by repeatedly form them of betrayal on marriage. they are now oust office. we will not hesitate and do this in minnesota. i wonder what you make of that. will they play a big in politics and the calculations of elected officials. >> as long as the republican electorate are broken down the way they are, they will. a lot of social conservative acts and the debates of the late 80s and 90s, there was a push to get rid of the pro life plan. many similar arguments and types of people were -- the republican consultants were advocating that and saying theyor the wrong side of the issue and the polling changed somewhat. there is no serious push to do that anymore. the trajectory is different. >> it's a kind ofstasis in abortion polling. there is not in rights. >> i think it's understandable for activists to look at the resident and think there might be hope. >> i would say on that i think there important differences. i am pro choice, but having an understanding of where the pro lifers are coming from, if you are talking about abortion that's a live and death issue. i don't think that pro lifers and social conservatives regard same-sex marriage in those terms. they do whatever it is they are going do is not the same as killing a human being. that will be regarded differently. that does have an impact. >> i am detecting a decline around gay marriage and some that are socially conservative. i want to talk about it. it's remarkable. the response to the president appearing on national television saying republicans for them to be like they are trying to detract from the economy. >> or she flip flopping, but not saying he is wrong. >> there is inevitability and saying i am against gay marriage, but they can see it coming down the road. and i think they see it's happening some places and not changing the nature of society and they can't do much about it. while they are still a posed, they are not as avidly opposed as they used to be. that may be the opening. >> i want to talk about and zoom out to talk about coalition politics and the notion of purity. who is in and who is out and how do you make the decision? that applies in left politics and also in right politics. any kind of movement and ideological camp. there is a trade off between having a big tank coalition and those who might have different views and you might be the local unit and not having people who are o poed to things you really don't believe in. i think this is playing on an interesting way the way the media is evolving. they have an interesting post critiquing the media and want to read that to you after this. ♪ ♪ we're lucky, it's not every day you find a companion as loyal as a subaru. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. and these come together, one thing you can depend on is that these will come together. delicious and wholesome. some combinations were just meant to be. tomato soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. 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[ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? so on february seventh, an editor of ours were writing about chuck hagel on the part of conservatives to make sure he wasn't confirmed on his views on iran and israel primarily. he wrote a piece and they had ducks questioned on friends of hamas. senate sources said exclusively they have been employed that one of the reasons they were segregated, chuck hagel has not turned over requested documents and one of the names list side a group called friends of hamas. it came out there was no such group even though it was picked up and a daily news reporter copped to the fact that they had jokingly said what are you guys hoping to find? through a weird game of telephone they had this piece. this prompted red state's eric erickson, calling for media to return to basic reporting. certainly part is because of the general media has a bias against conservatives to make it harder to take views serious leechlt they are trying to high lie controversies and we have forgotten the basics of reporting. as i learned in grade school as who, what, where, why, and how. we need to establish a base line that allows us to highlight the truly outrageous. i do think that there is this kind of person who has been in the adult media his whole life. the connection to principals and a world view and advocate and what outcomes you you want to see and at the same time you don't want to say the wrong thing or think simple propaganda who disseminates false information. as someone who works in conservative media, this is back and forth. >> one of the important things you remember in liberal media is you are not a publicist for your side. where your leanings are important is what kind of questions you ask. what sort of things that it might naturally come to you to be skeptical about. >> what stories you pursue. i think that is a fundamentally different thing than inventing things or becoming an opposition research. >> it does seem to me and now at the risk of sounding biased, there is an a symmetry here with the talking post memo or on the right. the outlets seem more committed. i have seen that with a bunch of new iterations. there is things like that that have announced themselves with an intention of being that, but the incentive structure of what gets you clicks and fund-raising pushes people. >> let me jump in here as someone who works with blogs online and that's my brief and the history of how these things grew out. online media was very activist on the left and the right. you started seeing more transition into it becoming more reporting. i think that happened earlier on the left than on the right. partly because who was president? where was the stuff to cover? now you ary seeing right of center. >> because there was such -- >> toughington post had an incentive earlier to get to the point of reporting because their stuff would be taken more credibly during the bush years. now when i look at what is coming out of the daily caller, some things are hit and miss. not to sort of sit here and give jim a big wet kiss, but i think jim is right. the approach that he has and thinks needs to be demonstrated has been instituted pretty successfully. and i think there two. i think there stories that they break that are legitimately well-sourced. >> i want to read this and i don't know why he is going to work. this encapsulates what is problematic. there true believers from either party that have gimmicky solutions out there. i linike to think i'm one of th. the mainstream medias and he made sure everyone knew that. that makes sure everyone is in line. if you think it's war, no shortcut is too much. >> i think it's important that not every conservative outlet is bright bart. everything they run is stupid. >> for got picked up on the places. let us know. >> for did get picked up other places. that's true. nobody should pay attention. i think the national review is doing good original reporting right now. he is a reporter and doing outstanding work and getting paid attention to not just by other conservatives, but the media as a whole. part of the problem for the right trying to develop them is they haven't realized in some case that is when you do bad reporting, it's not just not useful, but this is a problem from the daily caller. you are doing good work, but there is a lot of bad work coming out. that interferes. sometimes you go there and there will be things that are basically well-reported. practice are. >> i would add that that can be true with the "huffington post" also. it's true. >> a lot of times too. >> the journalism though at times. >> there is a difference there. let's say cheap shots. >> from the perfective of looking at mainstream media, there is plenty that they overblow and turn into stories. >> the national deficit for instance. mattie said that doesn't matter. more on the conservative media after the break. dad, i'd put that down. ah. 4g, huh? 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[ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. all the things we love about sunday meals into each of her pot pies. like tender white meat chicken and vegetables in a golden flaky crust that's made from scratch. marie callender's pot pies. it's time to savor. . you engaged in a fight or that brings up the question of purity and facts. i wanted to say this because this is the perfect trip. they had the line about the janitors who clean up after the folks who left capitol hill. this is good solid reporting and administer the staff of the u.s. senate and said is that true? he said no, there is a bit of a cushion that we used ahead of time. they are not getting a pay cut. he was wrong about that. his wrongness, i can say that on air. he's wrong. there facts of the matter that are the case. there is some way of having fidelity to that. that's different from friends of hamas. >> i don't feel like the integrity and purity. it's okay. they are saying someone who is ideological can't be a journalist. >> i don't believe that at all. >> exactly. people think there is a dichotomy that needs to be balanced. we need to focus on what's happening and how people are talking to their audiences. if we are talking -- what's your twitter feed going to say now that you said the president is wrong? >> people will be mad about it. >> people are reactionary rather than being thoughtful and empty of what the entire context is going to be. >> it has to do with whether or not you view yourself as empowered or disempowered. i have been more tolerant of this kind of thing now that we're not in the bush years. >> i think in the bush years i fell like i was in a bunker and our country was doing horrifying things that were killing hundreds of thousands of people and i didn't have much tolerance for the ka patienceness and liberal discourse. i understand that a bunker mentality produces instincts that are much more focused on winning a war than engaging in this kind of activity of fact finding. >> what's interesting about this is i will not totally blast them because i think there the occasional things that they have to make a job of reporting. whether it's like the clint eastwood signing on to the supreme court and anti-prop 8. >> a true fact about the world? >> it was an important story and it got picked up because they did a good job. they do things like that that are totally commendable. you have strategy and tactics. i think it is very easy for people to be so focused on the tactics they lose sight of the strategy. when i'm looking at this, i pick stories that are geared towards left of center folks and right of center folks. i do it all day long. what is common is the stories that tend to come out about handling them are much more focused on the strategy and the reporting and the facts because that moves the ball forward. this is kind of lobbing shots back and forth over the net. >> i also think the acorn thing ruined a lot of media. it was this gross underhanded i'm sure you disagree about this, but it worked. it totally worked and got this. acorn doesn't exist development largely thanks to that. i continuing sent everyone chasing down the rabbit hole. what will be the next big under cover sting operation? >> i think some of that and the bunker mentality led them into a place where they are misfiring because of this. if you are only really reading conservative media outlets, you don't understand when they're working and not. it worked with acorn and i think the mainstream media picked up a significant amount. >> jon stewart took the entire line and went after acorn. >> you saw in the campaign, republicans obsessing about the benghazi attack and not understanding that this was not breaking through as a whole. >> from the american spectator magazine, thank you, i enjoyed that. >> you should know from the news week ahead. coming up next. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. and make your business dream a reality. capella university understands nurses are dealing with a than wider range of issues. and there are ever-changing regulations. when you see these challenges, do you want to back away or take charge? with a degree in the field of healthcare or nursing from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to advance your career while making a difference in the lives of patients. let's get started at capella.edu. in just a moment what you should know for the week ahead, but first a quick update on violence against women act. congress sent president obama a bill that would expand vawa. eric can'tor he oo oor held up . house speaker john boehner finally caved this week and let the bill come to the floor for a vote with provisions intact. 87 republicans, just over a third of the gop caucus, joined 199 democrats in passing the bill. so what should you know for the week coming up? the supreme court is considering a case that could have wide ramifications for consumers when it comes to the routine arbitration agreement most of us blindly agree to in nearly all aspects of daily life that involves terms of agreement and other fine print. at issue is whether corporations, in this case american express, can prevent merchants from seeking damages through litigation as part of their credit card contracts. you should know that the merchants, backed by the obama administration, say a ruling in favor of american express would prevent consumers and small businesses from banding together to pursue antitrust claims. the u.s. government is planning to push forward with a full prosecution and trial against private bradley manning, not offered a plea deal, pled guilty to 10 of the 22 faces he's charges he's facing for leaking documents to wikileaks. military prosecutors intend to try manning on a number of much more serious charges including aiding the enemy and violating the espionage act which carries a life in prison and no chance of parole. manning said before the court, quote, i wanted everyone wanted to know no everyone in iraq needs to be penalized. you should know that after 1,008 days in prison and more to come it's harder and harder view what the government is doing to bradley manning as anything other than a punitive demonstration for others who might be tempted to expose the government's embarrassing secrets. finally you should know as people change their institutions change with them. some of the dame danish muslims and muslim groups that helped ignite outrage on cartoons of muhammad in 2006 are recanting and coming to defense of one of the virulent and viral critics, anti-islam writer lars hedegaard was shot at. copenhagen society regrets its role in whipping up outrage over the cartoon and said political and religious violence is totally unacceptable. you should know they are right. let's find out what my guests think they will know for the week coming up beginning with you, brian stevenson. >> talking a lot about voting rights case and today is the anniversary of the historic march from selma to montgomery. 6 million people have lost the right to vote because of a criminal conviction. we permanently people from voting even after they paid their debt to society and violated no other laws. it's dramatic, has a huge impact in florida, 1.5 million people, half a million african-americans, state like virginia, a quarter million african-americans lost their rights to vote. this is a civil rights issue. 30% of all black men have permanently lost the right to vote. it's a critical issue if we're going to be honest about voting rights. >> you show know on march 27th our nation's temporary federal budget will expire, another hyped fiscal deadline for sure so it's an opportunity. a plan that would be wildly popular with the american public and would also reduce deficits which we know is at the top of washington's agenda list right now so here it is. make strategic cuts to the military. we're talking about cutting waste and actually tailoring our forces to 21st century threats. then deal with health care costs. i'm not talking about cutting benefits. i'm talking about changing the way we pay for health care, from fee-for-service to pay for performance, and then close tax loopholes. no reason that anybody should get a tax deduction for buying a second or third home and buying a yacht and calling it a home. finally spend more on education. spend more on infrastructure investment and roads and bridges and schools across this country to give the economy the boost that it needs right now. >> david? >> you should know that the best way to understand the sequestration is not to think back to clinton and gingrich which, of course, everyone is going to tell, the clinton/gingrich showdown. think back to a most recent example california. what's happened in california is they were basically forced into a sequestration because they had big budget deficits. governor jerry brown essentially allowed the cuts to go forward in order to then make the case for tax increases. they now have a surplus and he is one of the most popular governors in that state in recent history. >> roberto? >> you should know that attorney general eric holder will be making an announcement on the colorado and washington marijuana laws, and he says he's going to consider the quote, unquote international ramifications so we should be looking for what he says about the 60,000 dead in mexico, the other thousands of dead in colombia, the failure of a $1 trillion drug war since 1971 and its international ramifications denounced by presidents throughout the heems feamispher >> i'd like to thank all my guests. thank you all and thank you for joining us. back next week saturday and sunday at 8:00 eastern time. coming up next is melissa harris-perry. wall street profits are up and bank profits are back to near record territory and the trial for the bp oil spill is under way. that and women's history month here on "mhp." we'll see you back here next weekend. 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this morning my question, what in the world was justice scalia talking about? and just thinks that people are making out like bandits. and once again, congress plays lucy to the american people's charlie brown. good grief. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry, and today, it is saturday march 2nd. remember last saturday when i said that in less than a week $85 billion of automatic spending cuts would begin to take effect, and spending cuts that no one wants and leaving americans to take furloughs or job layoffs? well, happy sequester day, because the sequester is here, and it looks like it is here to stay, because even though the congressional leadership met with president obama at the white house yesterday morning, nothing came of it. both camps came out with the same talking points they had when they started the meeting. republican house speaker john boehner moseyed on out of the white house with the same ole same ole to offer. >> make it clear that the president got the tax hikes on january 1st. there is a discussion about the revenue in my view is over. it is about taking on the spending problem here in washington. >> and even though he heard it all before, president obama gave some of the republican delegation the benefit of the doubt yesterday. >> i do know that there are republicans in congress who privately at least say that they would rather close tax loopholes than let these cuts go through. i know that there are democrats who would rather do smart entitlement reform rather than let the cuts go through, so there is a caucus of commonsense up there on capitol hill, but it is a silent group right now. >> of course, we are well past common sense. if we have learned nothing else from the debt deal showdown, the fiscal cliff and now the sequester, it is that putting together a fiscal plan for one of the largest economies in the world apparently has nothing to do with common sense, because here is common sense. common sense tells you that when someone holds out a football, you kick it. when they pull it away just as you are about to swing the leg, you might be a little bit more cautious the next time they hold the ball out for you, but we, the people, each have a little bit of the charlie brown optimism in us, so we say, hey, okay, let's take another shot, but when once again we are about to kick the ball, they snatch it away. it is safe to say that we are never going to get to kick the ball down the field. let's not forget that the sequester, itself, was the punt of the punt from the original punt in the 2011 when congress and the white house finally made a so-called deal on the debt ceiling, and as the president reminded us yesterday, none of this was even necessary. >> we are here for american families who had been getting battered pretty good over the last four years and just starting to see the economy improve, and businesses just starting to see some confidence coming back, and, you know, this is not a win for anybody. this is a loss for the american people. >> so see that is the conventional wisdom here, that just this week there were several signs that the economy was continuing to recovery, and a revised estimate by the u.s. commerce department that showed that the economy expanded slightly in the fourth quarter last year, and we learned that the number of americans seeking unemployment benefits fell by 22,000 and the dollar gained strength, but of course, the longer the sequester lasts the longer the gains could be rolled back. that is the common sense approach to politics. that is the rationale that makes you think that in a deliberative democracy that opposing parties could be convinced by the process of sharing information and exchanging data and listening to one another's argument, but the only argument that sways toward cooperation is if the position is a political liability, that good old fear of losing their jobs. but it looks like even though the political leaders packed up and went home this week without doing their jobs, it looks like we are the hardworking charlie browns in this country, because we are going to end up on our butts. with me is amy walter, senior editor of the cook political report, and tom shapiro, director of the institute of assets and social policy at brandeis university, and heather mcgee, advicer of public policy and demos.com. and ed ppakskey, because he brings doughnuts and is our favorite mayor. >> yes. >> and we are talking about everything across the board and every single thing is going to be cut and not with any reason, but just because we manufactured a crisis. amy? >> yes, we are good alt manufacturing the crisis. >> why? why? >> i appreciate when the president came out to say, there is a silent caucus of reasonable people up here. actually, there aren't. there are not reasonable people. >> they are not just silent, they are just not there. >> they are gone. they used to exist ten years ago and there were democrats who would vote who were moderates, and there were republicans who were moderate and over the last few years starting in 2006 and then going through the redistricting of 2011, they are gone. 96% of democrats sit in districts that barack obama won. 94% of the republicans sit in districts that mitt romney won. there is zero incentive for them to work on the other side. why would they do that? they are saying that the constituents are telling them to stay strong, and they are not lying, because the constituents look like the party they represent. >> well, there is a point when the constituents want something to be done. i want to listen to the president, and at one point the reporter asked him a question, and asked him, can you actually sequester congress and make them sit in a room unthil is doil al is done. and this is the president's response. >> couldn't you just have them all down here and leave them in the room until you have a deal? >> well, you know -- i mean, jessica, i am not a dictator. i am a president. so ultimately if mitch mcconnell and john boehner say that we need to go to catch a plane, i can't have secret service block the doorway. >> okay. heal heather, i get that, but i mean, i change flights, and we are talking about $75 and $100 fee to change the flight, and the president has his own plane that he could lend to the speaker, and are you saying it is fine to say, i have to get on the plane, and at what point must they do the jobs? >> the problem here is that you are right, amy, it is true that the districts are really polarized, but what has happened is that it is not left/right issue as washington issue, because even the republicans in the republican districts want balanced approaches, and want tax increases as well on the wealthy and closing the corporate loopholes and this is a common sense thing that even the republican base wants burk when you the beltway bubble which is surrounded by thousands of lobbyists and the donor class setting the agenda, the real division is between washington and us, and not the democrats and the republicans. >> and rick scott, the republican of florida said this, and i want to listen to this, and then, tom, i will have you respond to this. well, we don't have him saying it so i will say it. this is rick scott saying that the impacts on florida's military installations and defense industries will be severe under sequestration, and our immediate concerns include dramatic reduction to the national guard which tlent thre our ability to respond to wildfires this spring and hurricanes in the fall. so this is a real. >> well, we all hope that the nation's business is more important than doing another chicken dinner on saturday afternoon somewhere else. but the governor starts to hit at what many people think will be the impact down the road that might change some of the balance on this, and that is as the cuts start to hit real people in their real lives, and they start to respond. i mean, we are seeing both very, very painful kinds of hits with this sequester. those are the ones that the governor and others talk about, but i'm concerned about the invest. to future, so it is not just about what we don't have tomorrow, but it is about the nation and the families and the children will not have in the next two the three years. >> and those effects are cumulative and the dramatic impact at the moment, and it is cumulative and so let's look at the sequester cuts are, and respond, mayor. we are looking at more than a 1 million federal workers going on the furlough, and 800,000 defense department furloughs, and 70,000 students cut from head start, and 10,000 teachers cut, and 9.4 cut to unemployment benefits, so we are getting a body blow to the economy that is starting to recover. >> yes, it is estimated just in pennsylvania $11 million wages lost in the short term, and over $53 million if this goes on in the next year. it is real money in real people's pockets that are helping to fund our economy. so it is going to have some real life impacts. for cities, it is devastating. we are struggling and stretched to the breaking point because of all of the other cuts that congress has made and many of the programs that are going to be cut are going to affect cities disproportionately where a majority of the revenue is generated for the economies nationwide, and u, you know, everything from education to, you know, housing for the homeless to flu shots. i was talking to my health director and we will have to turn over 1,000 kids from flu shots in a season that flu has had an enormous impact on us. >> and even more lost wages. with we want to stay on the topic of the real life experience, because here we are once again and i feel like charlie brown and i keep saying, okay, it is going to be better, and then every time seeing that football yanked away. so now when we come back, we are going to the beltway to talk about the issues that is real people suffering because of washington's dysfunction. hey, it's sara. i'm going pro. i've been using crest pro-health for a week. my dentist said it was gonna help transform my mouth. 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(blowing sound) ask your doctor about spiriva. and these come together, one thing you can depend on is that these will come together. delicious and wholesome. some combinations were just meant to be. tomato soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. all of this will cause a ripple effect throughout our economy. layoffs and pay cuts means that people have less money in their pockets, and that means that they have less money to spend at local businesses, and that means lower profits, fewer hires. >> quite straight forward as the president made clear on friday that the sequester means less money in american people's pockets and the ripple effects of the cuts will be strongly felt at the state and the local level and the impact on one state, pennsylvania, will be millions upon millions and almost $48 million less in education funding and putting 360 teacher and teacher aide jobs at risk, and between 60 and 90 million in hud and housing lost to sequester. to bring some perspective to the huge figures the mayor of allentown pennsylvania who brought doughnuts an brought them today and there they are in the control room, because i am not eat iing the doughnuts, but the producers are, and look, we love you because you bring the doughnuts, but you also bring us the sense of what all of this means to ordinary people on the ground, when we look at the sequester cuts of the state budgets, and the state budgets, and $1.3 billion including $1 billion to special education, and wic which is women and infant and children program which is $550 million cut, and also $15 billion decrease in the army, and $11 billion from the navy and $7.7 billion from the air force. >> for us in allentown, it is going to be significant. like i said before the break, we have flu shots and we are estimating 5,000 kids in pennsylvania will not be p aebl to get flu shots, because of the funds cut for health and human services. meals on wheels, because of the nutrition programs and the se seniors have to go out the fend for themselves. it is just basic. >> and more will go hungry. >> yes, go hungry. >> and school funding $1.8 in allentown and 100 kids not going to head start, and it is real life commitments and devastating over the long term, and the cities are struggling from all of the cuts that have been made in congress. this is only going to make matters worse. i mean, millions upon millions upon millions of dollars in pennsylvania alone not going back into the economy, how does this help us? >> well, that is the question. how would this help? the one that i think that just -- i am just beside myself today, but the fact that we are already reducing the debt is the part that is really sticking to me. the fact that we are already seeing over a reduction of the debt that we are not in a debt crisis and not only manufactured crisis, but the reason for the manufactured crisis is also manufactured. how is this sort of set of false information so widely available that people believe that we have to make these kinds of cuts? >> so two things. first is lucy analogy. there is not a level of optimism, but there is also a fatigue out there, and you go on the talk about the cuts and the president talks about the cuts and how devastating it is going to be, and the public says, i am tired of it, and you say it every couple of weeks and what to believe, and that is why the public is not as engaged as the president thought they would be. >> and also the name sequester does not help. it is a bad name. >> armageddon needs to be in there somewhere. >> yes, march 1 is armageddon might have been better. >> yes, a focus groups of moms in kansas city and a lot of them in the same boat struggling economically, and they don't care, because the deficit is nothing of concern to them. they talk about the day-to-day live lives and how much it costs to fill up the gas tank, and i wrote about it the other day, one woman said, that i need to understand that people in washington understand my day-to-day life and not all of this ideological battle, because it is not going to pay for braces. >> well, tom, we had an election and people did make a choice between with the different possibilities, and they picked the guy in the senate and the congress and even though we tried to keep it that way, they voted for the people to raise the taxes on the rich and not make major cutts. >> so we had a national election where some of the issues were in fact before us, and we had a conversation, and debate and people went to the polls and we made a decision as a nation. but wait a minute, sequester. a fancy word for let's redo the priorities and meet behind the doors and have a forced, a forced set of cuts today that become the structure tomorrow. i want the dig down on one little fact here. we are talk abhousing in terms of money. the translation is that about 125,000 families that currently have housing choice vouchers are going to lose them. and half of those families have a member that is either a person with disabilities or is elderly, and as a policy choice, i would like people to raise their hands if they think that is a good priority to make that kind of cut. >> that we will cut and balance this deficit that we are bringing down and doing it on the backs of those with disabilities and with the elderly. >> that is right. >> when i come back, i want to give you this more amy, because i want to ask you next not only what is going to happen next, but what happened to the outrage about the inequality that was part of the discourse that brought us to the election where i thought that we had made a choice about that, and in fact, we will talk about the one, the one thing that could save us, god. here we come. think ju etting rid of dark spots will restore even skin tone? 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[ sighs ] [ chuckles ] [ announcer ] always rich, never bitter. gevalia. . as we anticipate an across the board set of budget cuts becoming law in our land, we still expect to see your goodness prevail. rise up, oh, god, and save us from ourselves. >> good grief! even the senate chaplain is blaming the country on the manmade disaster and not the firstle time he has made that point. and remember the last self-inflicted crisis a month ago. >> as we gather with so much work left undone, guide our lawmakers with your wisdom. look with favor on our nation and save us from self-inflicted wounds. >> that is sad that we have to keep praying, lord, keep us from ourselves. >> well, this guy is great. >> save us from ourselves. >> it is not save us from ourselves, but save frus the -- from the decisions made by a small group of people who have made decisions for the vast majority of the country, and we have to frankly remember why we are in this pickle at all because of a level of debt and deficit brought to us not by the president and not by someone who was elected in 2008, but the biggest four drivers of the fiscal problems that they are the two wars paid for on a credit card, and the bush tax cuts and then of course the financial crisis which was brought to you by a conservative economic ideology and the deregulation of wall street. >> yes, somehow that is lost. occupy wall street gave us a moment when we were focusing on that, but now somehow the de deficit is causal for economic problems rather than the other way around. >> yes, in fact, when the solution is economic growth, fairly distributed economic growth, and more jobs from the growth of the bottom up, and the myle-out, that is well within the power of the american government to do. even the americans jobs act and what the president spoke about in the inaugural address, universal pre-k, and money to give to communities to refurbish schools that are going to target the most badly hit school, and these are things to get us out of the hole, but we are not doing it because of political malpractice. >> and is that why? we are hearing heather say, if we were dealing with these, then we could talk about raising the minimum wage and addressing income inequality, and is the reason we are doing this to prevent doing that? >> well, we are talking about this so we don't have to do those things. the president won the election and wanted to do certain things in the next four years and made it clear on election night, and the inaugural speech, and now we have gone from that to potentially averted the government shutdown which is the one thing they have agreed to, and we have a debt ceiling fight and another budget cut coming up. so we will be caught up until may. and if these cuts start hitting and people are complaining, they have to figure out how the reel it back in, so we will spend time on it, and we are not spending time on the immigration, and things are demoted in front of us immigration reform or gun control, and those are the two things sitting on the back seat, and the thing is that with have we poisoned the well so smumuch with the lawmakers that we get nothing done. last congress was the least productive congress in the history of congress, and that is hard to do. >> well, it has to be hard to do nothing, because you never know when you are done, right? >> we are still doing nothing. it is almost like save us from amnesia, because we continually keep forgetting like you talked about the dialogue. only a few months ago we had the dialogue, and it is like every other day, they have a case of amnesia where they talk about what was happening before. >> and in is charlie brown and we know since 1952 that lucy is going to take the ball away and yet here comes charlie. that is my concern if we start to see the government as lucy, do we not even think it is capable of doing things that it can? this is part of the work, tom, that the government has been in fact extraordinary good in crafting a middle-class, and creating a set of policies that could put america pack to right as it once did, but if we have lost the faith in our ability to do that collectively, then we end up with these petty bites instead. >> well, part of it is because the government has stopped doing that and the policies around housing, around education, and around the entire wealth of the middle-class i would make the case, we have withdrawn from that. we have shift ed ted the ball f private investment to safety ladders and safety nets. >> and this when the president said he needed a jedi mind meld which is wrong, because of the "star trek" and "star wars" and you were like, yes, a jedi star meld, because we needed to communicate and that in fact what is happening in washington is not responding to need of ordinary people. so, up next, it is that time of the show when i send my weekly letter to somebody, and usually somebody who said something that needs a response. any guess who that might have been this week. this is john lewis sending up a little bit of a letter himself this week. >> it is an affront to all of the civil rights stood for, people died for and people bled for, and those who marched across the bridge 48 years ago. we did not march for some racial entitlement, but we wanted to open up the political process and let all of the people come in. we get doing... ...with a store full of ways to get it done. we can all throw on our work clothes... ...and throw out any doubt. because right now's the time to take those rooms from... ..."think i can do this?" to... ..."let me show you what i just did." more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. outsmart your budget with this pergo presto flooring, just $1.88 a square foot. in a face to face challenge, new outlast stay fabulous foundation held up fabulously 'til five o clock. a leading liquid makeup? 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[ green giant ] ho ho ho. ♪ green giant on wednesday the supreme court heard arguments that could be be the end of a key provision of the united states voting rights act a. at the heart of the case is whether states with a long history of racial discrimination mustt get permission from the justice department before changing their voting laws. now, in comments that made lawyers gasp when they were listening at the court, justin antonin scalia made no pause in his comments. so justice scalia, there is nothing to come as a surprise, because you are so predictable to come in line with your decisions of the most conservative and we know that unlike your friend clarence thomas who has a permanent mute button on, you will have an opinion influenced by your political agenda, but even with that, what you said in the oral arguments wednesday came as a shock. you said quote, i don't think that it is attributable to the fact that it is so much clearer now that we need this. i think it is attributable, and very likely attributable to a phenomenon called eperpetuation of racial entitlement. you went on the is a that i'm fairly confident that it will be reenacted in perpetuity, and this is a question that you cannot leave to congress. racial entitlement not a question that you can leave for congress! en for you, justice scalia, this is a will fful misreading of th constitution that you adore. so take a look at the awe guts docume document, and right here in section 5 of the 14th amendment and again in section 2 of the 15th amendment, isn't that the same entitlement, a congressional entitlement that says that the congress shall have power to enforce by approapriate legislation the provisions of this article. so they have the equal protection and the franchise for american citizens and especially when the citizens live in the former confederate state. in fact, the 14th amendment spends sections 2, 3, 4 spelling out precisely how the states who were involved in insurrection and rebellion will be treated differently, because thee were state where is the economies and cultures rested on the intergenerational chattel bondage of human being. they were so determined to keep holding human beings in slavery that they got together in armed rebellion against our country. sop of those same states, and more than 150 years later are still trying to pass laws that would deny the rights to vote for the very people that deny the voting rights act, and that people in section five would vote. excuse me, antonin, i'm dismayed that you describe the rights of citizenship racial entitlement. contrary to what you are suggesting the voting act was not a gift to the black people, but a right already enshrined in the constitution and repeatedly flouted by the southern governments, and here is what you missed, scalia, a great thing occurred in the 1860 whenz congress had to grapple with how to include the fully enslaved within the circle of citizenship which led congress to articulate due process, and equal protection, and those pillars of citizenship apply to everyone. the opposite of a special entitlement, but the constitution was not enough, and made congress over 100 years to make those practices a reality for all. so justice scalia when you spew that entitlement discourse from the bench, you undermine the core of our democracy, but i will still say thank you, because wednesday, you smoeed us exactly who you are, nand the words of the late great poet the great b.i.g., if we didn't know, now we know. s sincerely, melissa. 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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. did you know not all fiber is the same? citrucel is different- it's the only fiber for regularity that won't cause excess gas. it's gentle and clinically proven to help restore and maintain regularity. look for citrucel today. perhaps just as disturbing as justice antonin scalia's arguments was what justice clarence thomas had to say. yeah, that is right, folks, in a case that may leave the voting rights of millions of people of color unprotected the lone african-american man on the court said nothing. but that was certainly not the case for chief justice john roberts who asked this. >> it is possible that the citizens in the south are more racist than the citizens in the north? >> and he also made this oobservation earlier. >> which state has the greatest disparity in registration between white and african-american? well sh well, first is massachusetts and third in mississippi where the african-american registration is high near on the white registration rate. >> it seems like john roberts made a hell of a compelling case for tex tension to the voting rights act to the state of massachusetts. we go to the bridge in selma, alabama, where is the sight of bloody sunday where people were marching in 1965 and brutally beaten by the police. we are joined by the council of the legal defense fund chairman cherilyn. >> is that a reasonable argument that it is not more racist in the south? >> no, it is not a reasonable argument, and it is shocking to hear from the courtroom, because it is a one of the most es assee were sitting there as people there in alabama can tell you about the struggle there and how white power has tried to take control of the district for decades, so to hear that statement was shock iing. listening to you recount it hearing it here as i am at the foot of the edmond pettis bridge, the site of the march of 1965 made the statements more disturbing. john lewis got it right that it was a not a front. i wrote about it, and you ccan find my gap about it. there was a gasp when justice scalia made his comments, and it felt like a slap with a 1,500-page document that congress has concluded. it does not matter at the end of the day what chief roberts thinks is the nature of racial discrimination in 2013 or what justice scalia or jus ti sotomayor thinks, but the question is what did congress have and did they have a basis? they can't ignore the record that congress had over a year representing the ongoing racial discrimination throughout this country. >> i want to pause there for a moment. in case people have missed this, when the 1965 voting rights act was reauthorized in 2006 it was with overwhelming unanimous support including a 98-0 vote in the u.s. senate, and that means therefore all of the senators in the states that are covered by a preclearance. >> well, that is what got justice scalia so agitated, because he suggested that it was a unanimous vote in the senate must mean it is the perpetuation of racial entitlement and hard to reverse that once it happens. it is interesting because justice scalia's confirmation vote was 98-0 in the senate. so he was using the fact that we have wonderful progress that we have that even the senators covered by section 5 have the need for the ongoing clearance process. so he went on the say this is must mean a racial entitlement and we as the court must step in, because we cannot trust congress. it was extraordinary statement and i would be surprised if a majority of the supreme court justices want to line up with that statement. >> stay with us cherilyn, because it would be interesting if we can say that the comments of justice scalia were clearly racist. we will keep cherilyn with us. she can tell you about straight talk. sure! you get unlimited talk, text and data for only $45 a month per phone. can we still get the same cool phones? yeah -- the latest smartphones and coverage on america's best networks, nationwide. by switching to straight talk you could save $31.23 a month, that's over $370 a year! wow! and now you get unlimited data! that is awesome. 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[ male announcer ] it's an experience... everyone will be asking for. herbal essences. say yes again to naturally irresistible hair. share your first time using herbal essences. we won't know the fate of the voting rights act until june, because that is when the supreme court is set to deliver a decision. at stake is the preclearance entitlement which requires all states to get permission from the justice department before any changes are made to the election law, and the court must require if that requirement is still required and it is timely because it was used to vote voter i.d. laws in texas and south carolina and two states covered by the preclearance. joining us is cherilyn from the ncaa legal defense fund, and so it seemed that the fact that we are hearing this at this moment is shocking, because it was an issue in this election. >> absolutely. it is really ironic, because we have had in the past election more americans realizing the lengths that the politics will go the shape the electorate. and the fact is that just because the american legislative exchange council and the corporate-backed lobbying -- >> alec. >> yes, legislative group was able to import what had been essentially mostly a southern tactic of voter i.d. laws across the country in a blitzkrieg fashion in 2010 and 2011 does not mean and now it is in pennsylvania and now it is in wisconsin and plays that are not covered by the voting rights a act. that does not mean that it is suddenly unconstitutional for us to protect the voting rights of millions of americans. >> part of the reason i wanted you at the table, mayor, is that they are not wrong, the justices when they mention that pennsylvania for example, ohio ho, and states not covered by the preclearance were particularly egregious in this particular election. >> absolutely. we had a voter i.d. law that would have disfranchised 750,000 e folks and most of the minority folks and the elderly. we are still fighting that. the courts have still not totally decided that issue. now, there is another attack on the ability to vote and take away the electoral college vote which would divide it up in congressional districts which is so ridiculous gerrymandered that it is impacting on the individual's right to vote, and i have a district going from allentown to the middle of the state that snakes around like a big snake and looks like a question mark. >> and in is to extend section 5 rather than pull it back? >> yes, we need more scrutiny and not less. >> so more people would need it precleared. i want to listen to justice sotomayor, and unfortunately we have been listen so much to scalia and roberts. so she says, may i ask you a question, and let's listen to that. >> may i ask you a question, assuming that i assume the premise and there is some question about it, that some portions of the south have changed, your county pretty much hasn't. >> no. >> and in the period we are talking about it has many more discriminating and 240 discriminatory voting laws that were blocked by section 5 objections. there were numerous section 2 hem ri did the section 2 litigation, and you may be the wrong party bringing this. >> and she laid it out there, maybe race is better, but not where you live, my friend. >> that is the beginning of the argument and set the tone. obviously, she has read the record that congress has amassed. the great story, melissa, is that people are fighting back and people recognize the importance of voting rights, and the supreme court said that right is preservative of all rights. and the organizers down here are expecting thousands of people to march and march in the reenactment of the bridge. this is history present for people not only in alabama, but acro across the country who come down here for the march. so for that case made, we are optimistic it will be done, because congress a amased a record and they know what is happening with the cities and the towns voting across the country, and i hope that people are going to stay tune and watch what unfolds in alabama as the americans reinforce their right to vote and really take it to the streets. >> heather, is that part of what we are are seeing here? people are more aware of the voting rights act or section 5, but that is that real pressure on the justices? >> i hope so. it is true that we have seen the supreme court that was the body of the politic that was actually able to uphold the constitutional rights of the 14th and the 15th amendment and gave us "brown v. board" and we have had this idea that the supreme court gives us the voting laws, and that is the part of the government to en shrine them first and most protective of the right from the tyranny of the majority, and yet, we are seeing that the court is the most reactionary, and one of the greatest threats to civil rights in our time is the minority opinion and now the majority opinion of the roberts' court between campus-based diversity, voting rights and a lot of issues. >> yes, and the things that are on the docket are astonishing, because this court will see affirmative action, and voting defense act, and equal marriage, and cherilyn, you were here last week to talk about this, and is there anything that you heard in what the justices were talking about that you heard that reflected this? >> well, what was important is hearing all of the justices with the exception of clarence thomas speak and sound engaged. the questions most important to me were the ones about who's job is it to declare that racial discrimination in voting has ended? the court recognizes that in some ways they have a limited role and areas in which they have an expansive role, and they get to interpret the constitution and what the constitution says, but there are certain things allocated to congress, ap one of the things allocated to congress is to enforce the right to vote. the justices are grappling with this, and the question of the power between the congress and the supreme court is one that has presidents not only for the voting rights cases, but those questions. those are the questions of greatst interest to me. >> thank you, cherilyn for joining us from the bridge. and not only the most recent history, but the living history in which we saw people killed for trying to just have the right to the franchise which is in fact enshrined in the constitution. thank you mayor ed pawlaskey for joining us at the table. and also, one of our famous foot soldiers are going to join aus at the table. so many more following his footsteps. there is so much more of nerdland after this. who thinks more is better than less? 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[ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. this has got me irritated. the magazine bluhmberg business week found itself in a racial pickle thursday when images of the new cover went viral and i can't imagine why the cover, as you can see, teases a story about the great american housing rebound and guess who is shown benefiting? yes, the grinning barefooted black man clutching mad loot along other assorted characters with exaggerated racial features burk i can't figure out how he has all of the money, and none to buy the shoes, but it is not a good look for business week and something they know, because the magazine did apologize on thursday for this cover. but it is not so much the grinning bug-eyed sambo with the new home, it is the lie it represent represents namely that whatever housing crisis there was, it was short lived and those are the minorities back out there making out like bandits, and we know that the rheale the ti is quite different. the subprime crisis that hit those homeowners only caused further systemic damage. and this week with a new study out from brandeis university underscored just how unequal things have become. tracing 1,700 households over 25 years the study found that the wealth gap between white and african-american families has widened exponentially and increasing from $85,000 in 1984 to $236,000 in 2009. this is the gap, and it is a gap that grew in that era in which the african-american grew. and including those who went off to college. what gives? the study sites education gap and unemployment and also the number which is the key one which is about how many years a household has owned a home and what kind of house it was. according to the studies' findings of all of the contributing factors the duration of homeownership was the wedge of all and driving the wealth gap ever higher. as the atlanta's article says that it has been a public policy for equality. joining us to break down the study is one of the primary authors and also a professor from the brandeis university tom shapiro and healther from demoes, and matthew from southern university, and james perry who is the director of the urban housing department, and i say his name that way, because he is my husband. and tom, what do you feel about this. >> well, whether it is social security or unemployment, it is the money basically that is money that streams in and out of the households and most of us use it for daily household use, and then most of us have debt on the credit card by the end of the month. and most of us have depth, but it is like a warehouse that we can draw upon when we need contingencies and crises, but more importantly for american society, it is the invest memen capital for our own well-being, and skill development, and buying that home and all kinds of things. >> well, it is counterintuitive that the income gap could be narrowing and more people going to college, but at the same time the wealth gap is nwiding and hw is that possible? >> that is what went to the heart of the study. what we looked at is the same set of families walking through the experience of american society, schools, homes, jobs, american policy. in our analysis, we were able to tear it apart and put it back together and ask what accounts for the $151,000 increase in the racial wealth gap, and indeed, we captured it through homeownership. >> that homeownership piece, and james, this is your work and the question of fair housing, and how fair housing either leads to fair or unfair outcomes. >> yes, in america, the deck has been stacked through the entirety of the process, and the result is that aftrican-americas have not had access to homeownership, and think about the concept of the health gap starts with slavery and at that point african-americans of course don't not only own property, but they are property, and white americans start owning property at the begoichk gre bhe great nation, so it is not until the jones versus myers lawsuit that black americans have the access as whites to own and transfer property. so it is only within a short team that blacks have been able to do that, and so that has inkreetsed the racial wealth. >> well, wealth is where it shows up in the wallet. i could go to the ivy league school, and still have no inheritance, and $15,000 from my grandparents to go to college, but it was not there and you talk about going into debt. 45 years ago was not that long ago to have the right to own and sell property, but 20 years ago did the government stop redlining whole neighborhoods for mortgage insurance and did private lenders stop targeting communities of colors with subprime loans? >> yes. >> and i think that the study raises provocative things for us to think about, but basically it suggests that over the last several decades there has been a stable model for wealth accumulation, and economic process for the white middle-class and upper middle-class. >> and homeownership. >> yes, a formula to go the college, and get married and buy a home and save for retirement, and what the study suggests is that all of those things combined have worked well to promote affluence among the white working class, but each one of those have been less effective for black americans, and going to college has produced lower returns and marriage returns lesser income, and so on and on and that model that we have established for the white pros pperity that has word well for america over the last several decades, the question is how to extend it to the broader way. >> i don't want people to miss the way you are saying that, because it is important that part of what happens when we talk about the wealth accumulation is that we assume it is about individual choices, but the choices have what is called a flatter curve, a flatter slope that it is not as steep. each year of education does not bring as much return to you and the likelihood of going from unmarried to married does not bring enough, and the reason it happens in the housing market is because black and brown bodies reduce the value of the home that they are living in? >> yes, you know in new orleans where we live segregation is a real factor and if you live in a majority of the african-american neighborhood, if you own the same home in black and white neighborhood, the black neighborhood is worth lez. it will impact your life as you grow up. >> as i was reading this, tom, i want people to get how intense this gap is. i looked back to look at not just race, but narrow it down and there was a recent study showing that african-american wom women, and all women of color who are unmarried the median wealth for unmarried women is $5. the cushion, the deep pond is $5. for me that was like when we know that unmarried women in communities of color are more likely to raise children, that to me told an enormous story. >> there are no deep pockets, but a mirage in the wilderness quite frankly that does not exist out there. it is a desert, and in fact for the median to be $5 and half above and half below, we are talking about 49% or so of that population living constantly in debt and not having an emergency fund. not being able to do anything if a crisis comes up, if the car breaks an axle in the winter, and if food runs out at the end of the month and all kinds of contingencies that cannot be met. it is a horrible situation and for me, that is what wealth speaks to. it is about the ability to move ourselves and our families and the communities forward. >> it is also expensive for government, because if people have $5 in personal wealth if you are sick or divorced or miss, you know a week of work, guess who picks that up? taxpayers. >> yes. >> and the dependency on the state is not good for anybody. not good for the individual or society to have large numbers of people dependent on the state for emergencies, but if the wealth is functionally zero, there are few alternatives to state dependency which becomes problematic, and another thing is a important that you raise, melissa, this is story not about race or black and white but class as well, because one of the interesting things in the study was that you found that when blacks and whites are actually starting from the same position in terms of how much wealth they have, the outcome of the additional dollars is very much more nearly equal. the problem is that race and class are so correlated that most african-americans are starting at a lower income threshold and therefore each additional dollar is thrown into immediate needs as opposed to accumulating long term wealth and capital. >> when you talk about, and we started the conversation with government, right, and the important thing is that government had an active role in creating the gap in the first place and not just the extreme circumstance of slavery, but also when it came to homeownership, there was a system to get an fha loan if you were white, but not african-american, and so the government created the gap. so when talking about fixing the gap, the government has the ability to fix the gap and through the policies that the government enacts, and when you say it is all about the family or what this person chooses to do or not to do, you have to ask what policy is going to be put in place to change this gap, because it helped to create it, and certainly, it can fix it. >> well, senator jeff sessions has something to say about that, and when we come back, aim going to lose my mind, because what he had to say about that was distressing and more on the claim of senator jeff sessions that had all of us in nerdland asking if the man can add. that is next. 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[ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. republican senator jeff sessions is of alabama recently raised some eyebrows when he released a document that implied that federal benefits give low income families a higher standard of living than middle income households. and the case is welfare and sou sounds a little bit like r reagan's queen welfare myth, but this time it was statistics and here is where he got creative. here is the graphic that he posted to the budget committee oversight back in november showing that the pay per day and per hour exceeds median income. and those are getting right over you, americans, and who is helping them? the evil government. not so muchk except for the budget por priority and policies crunched the numbers saying it is deeplyly flawed saying that overstates the assistance that poor households receive like nursing homes and welfare and this is a taste of what is wrong with sessions, and what he is saying. how can we attack the problem of poverty seriously if people like the senator are going to inflate the stats to fit their argument? how do we take this seriously? i am here look at the study and longitudinal and sessions says, no, too much to the poor. >> can i say so many problems that went about this, and it is important to dig into it, because it is shocking and a total mean on the right and you have talk radio doing it, and i said about poverty on twitter the other day, and it is payments to welfare and part of the problem is the definition of welfare. and half of it is medicare which half of it goes to payments of hospitals and doctors and providers go to end of life care for very sick and dying middle income people who shield or spend down their assets to be able to afford long term care, because we don't have a system in this country, but when it come air pairs to the average income, it does not say that sponer soed health care is part of the average income, and the money to the schools and the communities on the average middle-class sort of side is part of that. it also does a ridiculous thing where it counts the programs that go to people above the poverty line and then puts the denominator only below the poverty line. and finally, it creates a lie that we have an incredibly welfare state which is an important undercurrent of the war or government and the deficit hysteria, because if the government does not mean faa and food inspection s s to people, big gilded checks going to undeserving people, then yeah, i might be more supportive of the radical anti-government agenda, but when people under the po poverty line receive means tested benefits, it still does not let them crest above the poverty line. >> and not close to the poverty line and even when we look at the things that are close, and tiaff has been closed since 1986, and part of what is going on there is that wages have decreased. and part of the reason he is able to show that is because in fact the working poor are the working poor and that is not an indication that we are generous, but it is an indication that we are not generous. >> right. part of it goes back to the bloomberg cover where you have the same mean being run out where it is people greedy for stuff. >> yes. >> and getting more stuff. but here's a little bit of perspective because annually in the united states we spend $4 billion investing in individual wealth creation, and the huge majority of that goes to the top 1% and 5% and mostly in the form of mortgage interest deduction and pension policy. in fact, if budgets really reflect priorities, we spend more money in the united states subsidizing homeownership for the middle-class and the well to do than we do for the people who are poor and need shelter. >> well, that is right. first of all, i will say that i am profoundly shocked that a politician in washington would use misleading statistics to advance a talking point, and that is shocking, and neither the liberals nor the conservatives ever use bogus figures. >> and it is hard to teach that at the college level, because students say facts can say anything. but that is true. >> and on this particular question, the point that you made is exactly right that if we are going to seriously look at concerns about fiscal discipline and concerns about the deficit, we have a tendency to focus whether we are on the left or the right, and either on the poor and the wealthy as the people who are the problem. those are not the problem. honestly where we are spending money is on massive middle-class entitlements, social security and medicare predominantly benefit middle-class people and they are good programs that ser ave good purpose, but the fact that people on welfare are sucking up the money is not true. it is a fant city. it is not the poor -- >> it is the old. >> well, it is not just the poor, and the old, but that is where the money is in terms of government spending is for entitlement programs that will benefit middle-class people. >> it is tough to build a political coalition against the old, but it is easier to build a coalition against the poor. >> well, i will say that even if you look at sessions' numbers from his perspective, the message is senator, do your job, because we need more jobs. ultimately if he is right, then it means that congress should be working to make sure that there are more job opportunities, and therefore increasing the opportunities for middle-class. but they are not doing that. they are entering into the sequester to ensure fewer opportunities. >> talk about the sequester, because it feels not only fewer job opportunities, but the discussion just before the break, you cannot earn your way out of the wealth gap, and you can close the gap with the income earnings, but not out of the wealth gap. what kind of policy can we talk about that is politically feasible that can in fact move us toward narrowing the wealth gap and not just making the people of the top floor. >> well, anything is politically feasible, but it takes time to change the conversation about the issues. and i want you to know that i'm a defendant and supporter of the low income housing trust fund and this is an idea that we have talked about on the show, that ends homelessness in a period of 5 to 10 years if it were fully funded. the policy is out there, and the opportunity out there, and you think big, but you can't start with the decision that individuals are making bad decisions. the president gets a bad rap on a lot of the things that he does, but he is taking steps to move some of the systemic issues. for instance the department of hud put out a disparate rule that means that you don't have to have intentional discrimination to prove in court that it is happening, but instead, system is s thes that t mean to discriminate that harm people, and that is what happening in the housing market right now. >> yes, because housing and race are so connected. we will stay on this, and i have to tell you, if you thought they was mad at scalia or sessions? well, wait until i tell you about the folks at indiana. thu etting rid of dark spots will restore even skin tone? think again. introducing olay professional even skin tone. developed by experts in skin genomics to target 5 major causes of uneven skin tone and help restore even color. olay professional even skin tone. wears off. [ female announcer ] stop searching and start repairing. eucerin professional repair moisturizes while actually repairing very dry skin. the end of trial and error has arrived. try a free sample at eucerinus.com. the end of trial and error has arrived. do we hano.a mower? a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget. we're not ready for spring. well let's get you ready. very nice. you see these various colors. we got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here. this spring, take on more lawn for less. not bad for our first spring. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get ready for spring with this ryobi 18-volt trimmer, just ninety- nine bucks. ♪ shimmy, shimmy chocolate. ♪ shimmy, shimmy chocolate. ♪ we, we chocolate cross over. ♪ yeah, we chocolate cross over. ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing fiber one 80 calorie chocolate cereal. ♪ chocolate. 80 calorie chocolate cereal. ♪ ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours and help plan for your retirement. visit a branch or call now for your personal retirement review. i've always had to keep my eye on her... but, i didn't always watch out for myself. with so much noise about health care... i tuned it all out. with unitedhealthcare, i get information that matters... my individual health profile. not random statistics. they even reward me for addressing my health risks. so i'm doing fine... but she's still going to give me a heart attack. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. remember when florida governor rick scott took office and made drug testing welfare recipients a thing, and any and all florida residents receiving benefits from temporary benefits and families would have the privilege of urinating in a cup because of scorick scott. but now in alabama, the idea of testing welfare recipients is still catching on. so now we have in indiana a propo proposal to order people to have written drug tests pass ed ed be house of representatives so they know that you are not allowed to take the urinalysis so they will ask you, do you need a drink to steady your nerves in the morning and that is about to be the answer yes for me if i keep dealing with this. seriously, this feels like intrusive in a level that is appalling, and it is all about these unworthy poor people. >> and it should not be difficult to pass an exam that says, are you on crack? you could say no, and that qualifies you. >> but i work for the government. >> and the idea is that the written drug test is somewhat absurd. >> well, so the written test and this idea if we were to talk about in part going to your idea of so many of the government benefits are invisible, right? so should students at a state university before they can enroll for school have to take a drug test at the beginning of every single semester, because they are getting state benefits, and should seniors have to take a drug test before they get their medicare. >> well, most of the students would not qualify and it would be the end of college. >> yes, in america. >> and it would shut down the whole louisiana state university system. >> and seriously, if you are under 21 and even alcohol in your system. >> i am a graduate of louisiana state university and i resent that, because i do not believe that every student at louisiana state university would fail a drug test. i must say. >> well, they are filling the classrooms. >> but, look at how we embed these invisible changes in our lives all of the time. and we are beginning to expect that for the so-called welfare clients, but last year we passed the estate tax that exempts $5 million from any taxation to what else? index it to inflation. minimum wage is an index to inflation, and food stamp money and stamp money and nothing else other than security benefits except for the wealthy, we will index for inflation. >> and they are going to have a tiny amount, but it will benefit exponentially the amount of wealth concentrated in the few families who have actually the inher tenss and the s and th inheritance? >> well, maybe we should tax them before they get their inheritance. >> well, it is going to back to the idea that we are giving too much money to the unworthy poor. >> yes, that is ridiculous, because 70% of low income families are working. since the reform of welfare and the ending of welfare as we knew nit 1996, we have seen a time when again flu the fault of, you know, a deregulated wall street, we have an incredible amount of pain in the country and increase in poverty and now 2 of 4 people do not get any kind of cash assistance, and there is also a real fallacy that has been promulgated since the 1980s when our friend justice roberts was working the try to dismantle civil rights from inside of the d.o.j. and i had to add that piece of history, we have seen an idea that equates welfare with color. it is simply not true. the first welfare that we ever had in the new deal was expressively written with social security to not actually include people of coer lo, because it was not eligible, and you were not eligible if you were a domestic worker or farm worker and who is that? when we finally took the racism out of the welfare state of the country with the great society, then you started to see the incredible backlash, but "the new york times" reported that actually, we are seeing a reversal and return back to the racial skewing of the welfare state, and the fact that 22% of african-americans are poor, but only there are only 14% of beneficiarie beneficiaries. 42%, sorry, white americans are 42% of the poor, but receive 69% of the benefits. but if you ask most people listening to talk radio, who is going to be drug test susceptible, it is not the white american. >> okay. and james, i want to give you the last word, because it keeps our marriage healthy. and i want to know, how do we then push back on the notion that poverty and rate is sitting together like that, because it feels like to me when jeff sessions who is from alabama which is the 46th state on poverty and extremely poor state can make these kinds of statements about poverty, it is because of an assumption of people of color. >> well, there is a lot of work to be done, and the first work is really making sure that everybody is clear what the problem is. this study goes a long way in doing that, but the second is that we have to stay strong in litigating the issues, because for the most part the changes in civil rights law over the last several decades, it comes from litigation. that is the opportunity on the small scale to change what is happening on the systemic basis. >> so even though i'm terrified of the supreme courts, we keep fighting. thank you, mr. perry. i will see you later after the show. and the rest of you are coming back. and how michael bloomberg is building himself a little political army. 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[ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone, so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i'm a blue-collar worker. to me, bayer aspirin is another tool. go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore. ♪ tuesday, the race to fill an illinois house seat vacated by jesse jackson, jr. made headlines. the winner of the democratic primary robert kelly became a political star overnight and not just because she won, but how she won. the gun control advocate state representative came from behind to beat former congressman debbie halverson who was backed by the nra. and kelly's past runs right through new york city, and thanks to the city's mayor and avid gun control advocate. the billionaire spent $2 million of his own money to attack kelly's foe. and be assured that that his was not the only money, but it is him positioning himself to the counterweight of the political juggernaut which is the nra. his super pac has become involved in eight state and congressional races since the creation late year, and five of the candidates he backed also supporters of gun control won. kelly understands that the bloomberg support is not really about him. >> he didn't do it on my behalf. i look at it that he did it on behalf of the families around the country. >> that is a lot of praise which is certainly better than things that the last congressman who vacated the seat in illinois was buying with his campaign contributions. yes, i am looking at you jesse, jr., but as much as progressives may be enthusiastic of what is a good billionaire with a super pac countering the influence of bad billionaires with super pacs. let me encourage everybody to pause for a moment, because a he healthy democracy is not for sale. even if you like the guy who is buying. up next, the scathing report that proves that the wealthy really are stacking the deck. a? by the barrelful? the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. campbell's. exciting and would always come max and pto my rescue. bookstore but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself. and i knew he'd feel better if he lost a little weight. so i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula. i just fed the recommended amount... and they both loved the taste. after a few months max's "special powers" returned... and i got my hero back. purina cat chow healthy weight. i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. 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[ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. the title says it all, stacked deck. the dominance of politic by the after flu -- affluent and business undermine the economy of the united states, and that is a study put out by demoes. amy walker is back with us from the cook report, and first i want to turn to the vice president of policy and outreach for demoes heather mcgee, and all right, there is your report, and it turns out that some things apparently are for sale and potentially set government and we know who is buying it. >> yes. we went to look at this question of how it is that something that we have certainly kind of taken for granted now which is the dominance of the politics by the very wealthy, by the mi millionaires and the billionaires who have make up a majority of the cal pain spend big less than 1% who are giving to the campaigns and setting the rules and deciding who can win elections. how does that effect our encoemy? to look at that to unpack it is a lot of political science research that has shown recently that there is a big difference of the way in which particular think wealthy and the rest of the country think not just about climate change or gun control as mayor bloomberg gives you an example of, but it is questions down to the way that the economy is structured and that is where you will see the biggest difference. so, for example, the vast majority of americans believe that no full time worker should work full time and stay in poverty. minimum wage should prevent that. among the wealthy and the donor class, they agree with that. where are we now? in a place where somebody can work full time and still be in poverty. >> so in a certain way the results of the study are not shocking. oh, the wealthy have more influence in politics, really, that is is in and of itself is not shocking. what does feel like a thing that is surprising maybe is the extent to which the interests of the wealthy are mirrored in the policies of the government. it always felt like you would have the people or you would have money and put the people power gaiagainst the money powe and there would be different currencies that you could spend and now there is only one curre currency that you can spend. >> i want to keep beating this horse about polarization, but i want to go to the primaries for one second, because we talked about the donor class, and the poor, and we talked about who elect these people. the conservative republicans can make it through a republican primary, and the liberal democrats can make it through, and the people they talk to are a smaller class than the donor class, and the people that are -- >> and where the liberal democrats? >> they rare up there, but ther is a feedback, because if you talk to the members of congress, they will say, i don't know what you are talking about because everybody says that the deficit is the number one issue. >> well, they are not talking to the voters, but the people they spent one of three minutes to which is the call list. and the problem is that it is shown up in the policy outcomes and take for example the capital gains rate which you can compare to minimum wage. there is a princeton professor -- >> marty gillins. >> well, this is bartel. but the distribution has no impact on the behavior of the elected officials and take that and think of the minimum wage and now look at the donor match and how it impacts those who get a income tax cut, and we have not been able to increase the capital gains and the minimum wage. >> well, there is a real influence of policy by the donor class. and there are other areas where the donor class has been thwarted in the practices. >> the 2012 presidential election. >> yes, right. also, one of the real priorities of the donor class is deficit reduction and we haven't seen a lot of deficit reduction. >> oh, i beg to differ, because we have seen $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction and the deficit reduction completely take away from the political response to the 25 million americans who don't have enough or any work. that is actually a really great example of the difference of the donor class and the rest of ameri america. >> well, i don't believe that anybody would say that we are on a trajectory to the balanced budget where the donor class would like us to be, but we are not. also, the donor class favors liberal policies like gun control. we don't have gun control happening in the country, because of the interests on the other side. there are cases where they are successfulf and some where they are not. you made an excellent point about how it is in primaries where the money can show up and have a huge effect, because primaries are case where is the candidates don't start out with name recognition. >> and greg, i guess what i take issue with is the idea that it is polarization from both sides and the very conservative and the very liberal and mostly, because when we look at how the voting has turned out in congress and even looking at president obama on the one hand, and we have the thwarting of one aspect of the bad billionaires, but the fact is that he had an enormous amount of money thwarted into the campaign and those interests do seem to cross party ideology whether at the top or the democrats or the republicans or the liberals or the conservatives to shore up the economic benefits. >> yes, you will see that in fact that some of the differences in terms of the social issues do fade away when you get to the economic. there is an economic consensus that even more progressive or more progressive wealthy americans actually will not actually feel like corporate regulation is a good idea even though they may favor marriage equality for gay americans. >> and the other thing of the report that is interesting, and i think it goes to the point in some ways about the primaries as well is the dropoff in participation rate in terms of who is voting and who is not. and the people who have wealth are voting more than people who don't. when i say this is who they are hearing from, they go to the town hall meetings, and the people who are showing up at the town hall meetings are not the people who are working or i thought about this at my son's school event, and i knew that everybody there had to have child care and i thought, these are faces who can afford child care, right. and those are the people who show up, and when the representatives come home and i was just at five town hall meetings, and this is what everybody told me, because they are the people who can show up on a wednesday afternoon. >> and even participation cost, because there is a way that the wealth gap costs. so thank you to everybody. tom, an matt and ammy and i feel like romper room. but it is first time for a preview with alex witt. >> well, this is one strange and tragic story, everyone. coming out of florida where a sinkhole apparently swept a man to his death. we are getting more information. and march madness d.c. style, which state is hit with the most sequestration cuts. and what date will congress stop the process. and this is really a fight in 33 years of making and one about the iran hostages and those held captive for 444 days, and you will hear about their new fight. and ben jelous joins us to talk about the supreme court and the voting rights. >> it is a busy week in politics. >> yes. >> thank you, alex. and up next, ben simon our foot so soldier is here live and changing lives every night. it is the one person i am not mad at today on the show, ben simon. eucerin professional repair moisturizes while actually repairing very dry skin. the end of trial and error has arrived. try a free sample at eucerinus.com. [ angry gibberish ] [ justin ] mulligan sir. mulligan. take a mulligan. i took something for my sinuses, but i still have this cough. [ male announcer ] truth is, a lot of sinus products don't treat cough. they don't? [ male announcer ] nope, but alka seltzer plus severe sinus does it treats your worst sinus symptoms, plus that annoying cough. [ angry gibberish ] [ fake coughs ] sorry that was my fault sir. [ male announcer ] alka seltzer plus severe sinus. [ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is! [ male announcer ] try alka seltzer plus severe sinus day and night for complete relief from your worst sinus symptoms. all the things we love about sunday meals into each of her pot pies. like tender white meat chicken and vegetables in a golden flaky crust that's made from scratch. marie callender's pot pies. it's time to savor. so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but after one day's use, dishcloths can redeposit millions of germs. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to a fresh sheet of new bounty duratowel. look! a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth, as this black light reveals. it's durable, cloth-like and it's 3 times cleaner. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to new bounty duratowel. the durable, cloth-like picker-upper. every week we close out our saturday show with a segment we call foot soldiers. we use the space to highlight individuals or small groups that are out there finding new ways to create change and empower others in their own communities. five weeks ago, we brought you the story of ben simon, a senior at the university of maryland college park. ben found a way, through the volunteer power of students, to donate unsold food from his campus dining hall to food banks and shelters in his community. what started in one university soon expanded to 13 campuses around the country. thanks to ben and his friends. and so much has happened to ben and his organization, the food recovery network since we named them our foot soldiers that week that we decided to bring ben in to tell us all about it. hi, ben. the so nice to have you here. >> thank you so much for having me. >> what's been going on the past five weeks? ? we've had a really exciting past five weeks. thank you so much for the exposure. it was our first national tv coverage and we got an amazing outpouring of support from your views. within a week we had 30 to 40 new chapter applications. that's students who applied to start a food recovery network chapter at their college campus. so we got a lot of donations. our facebook page blew up. it was crazy. hitting refresh and having like 200 more likes after like a minute. it was crazy. and just a lot of love. people saying finally you guys are doing something like this. this is amazing. >> one of the things that we loved about what you're doing is that you actually did the research to find out the law that is made it possible. >> right. >> because as you said to us previously, people think they can't. so why is it that people can in fact do something like the food recovery network? >> it's very true. this is a huge issue. misinformation. and people the dining managers and the restaurant managers, grocery store managers, people who are in charge of making that decision whether or not to give the food away or to throw the food away really are widely unaware of this act called the bill emmerson good samaritan act. it's a ball passed in 1996 signed into law by bill clinton. to provides nearly blanket protection for all food donors donating food to somebody in their community. >> that is pretty astonishing. we have a choice in baz, in a university, not to throw away the unused food but instead to redistribute it. if i'm at a university, if i didn't see it the first time and i'm thinking i want to do that what's the process other than liking you on the facebook page? >> have them get in touch with us. anybody can shoot an e-mail to food recovery.org. but usually the new chapter process starts with students. it can start with the dining hall managers. that's great, too. but typically we have to find a group or four or five committed students who get in touch with us. we send them what's called a new chapter tool kit. basically through a series of weekly conference calls coach them through starting a new chapter. >> you guys are building out from a campus totally volunteer organization into something else. what is it? >> so that's absolutely right. so we started in september 2011 at the university of maryland college park. we're now at actually 18 different college campuses. and that's actually a huge announcement they didn't get a chance to mention was that in the past five weeks since that coverage we've been able to start five new chapters. that's like a chapter a week. so we're really really having incredible explosive growth. and what we realize is that we needed to do this full time. this is an amazing amazing thing that needs to exist. we can't keep wasting all this food. so currently we have a national leadership team of about eight students at different college campuses working about anywhere from 5 to 20 hours a week just volunteering on the project to make it happen. but we're fundraising right now for our first full time budget and professionalizing the non-profit profit to go full time. >> now you're going to do good, in a way that brings in volunteers, people in the community, but you're also going to become job creator, right? >> exactly. >> that's pretty extraordinary. in fact it makes me want to introduce you to msnbc's president phil griffin. because we have one of the things we're very proud of here at 30 rock is the new nbc universal dining hall. i got me to thinking i wonder what's going on with our food upstairs. >> if you haven't heard of something chances are you guys are probably throwing out your extra food at the end of the day. we would love to help you out. >> yeah. maybe you and phil could have a conversation later. thank you to ben simon. the work you're doing is extraordinary. i love the idea of a chapter a week. that will be 52 by the end of the year. that's a great thing. that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. by the way a very happy birthday to michelle's mom marie. i will be back tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern when we dive deep into corporate greed. that's right, the bp trial. and i got one more little angry rant. you know that c word tweet that rocked the world on oscar nights? i got something to say about that. coming up, "weekends with alex witt." 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you are not forgotten. >> but power, money and political influence have left a lot of americans lagging behind. they work hard. they lift heavy things and they sweat through their clothes grinding out a living. but they can't seem to get ahead or in sop cases stay even. >> as middle america is hollowing out we can't sit idly by as big government politicians paycheck it harder for our workers and then turn around and blame them for losing jobs over's. -- otherwise. working people don't need a government tied to big money or big government. >> hillary clinton isser harkening back to the new deal planning a vision speech at the fdr island in new york which kmem rates the four freedoms. freedom of speech of religion from fear and from want. her competition for the nomination is all well from her left. if she wants to channel fdr, she better bring it. >> today we stand here and say loudly and clearly enough is enough. this great nation and its government belong to all of the people and not to a handful of billionaires. >> we cannot and will not rebuild the american dream at home though. our economy upside down in the first place. and they are the only ones who are benefitting from that. >> this is interesting. except for the little d or the little r in the corner you may not know if you are listening to a democrat or republican speaking. wie are we hearing this from all sides? maybe because right now in this moment this is what they think people want to hear. and have been for several years. that attention was jump started by the occupy wall street movement of 20 # # 1 and sustained through protests for higher wages. recent incidents alleged police brutality that drew national focus to unequal american microcosms like baltimore. now the electorate wants something done and the would be leaders need to present plans. joining me now, tamron drought, vice president of policy and research at dmos. she's working on a book about the new working class to be published by doubleday. raul reyes, attorney and contributor to nbc news.com. and anan gerdas author of "the true american, murder and mercy in texas." since you are new to the table, we have talked a lot about the 99 versus 1% as a way to think about inequality. you have written you think the 99 versus one is the wrong way to think about it. there is a different way to think about what the multiple american reel al tis are. >> i think it excuses too many of us who are not necessarily in the 1% but are living in a successful country. i think 20 30% of americans still live in an america that's the most successful society if the history of the rl world. worked for world class institutions have a certain amount of access to hospitals, insurance, a good life good universities. two-thirds or three-quarters of us are living in a different america that's now decisively a second world country without realizing it. if we mischaracterize the problem as hedge funders stealing money from are the rest of us i don't think we understand the extent of oh institutional and civilizational decay in the bottom two-thirds or three-quarters of the country. >> the idea of the 99% was in part a political nl strategy to draw in more people. so you might be in the 70% but not in that 1%. it is an interesting point. in drawing in the greater coalition it might also obscure just how big the gaps are for an even broader proportion of people. >> i think anand is right. the degradation most workers in america have suffered in the last two decades is extreme. the reality is the difference between having a college degree and not having a college degree is enormous now. people don't live on the same blocks, they don't interact. >> i tell my students military crawl across the finish line. it's not the same job market it may have been in the 90s but it is a bulwark against so many economic bads. >> the majority of workers and jobs the largest jobs growing in america are working class jobs. home health aides, janitors retail sales. those are the jobs that are adding the most to the economy now. they don't require a college degree. they don't provide a life of dignity and well-being. >> interesting point. when we talk about jobs there used to be a discourse that all of the jobs that don't require a college degree were gone. in a service xi they are not gone. they are here. they don't provide the same kind of life. my grandfather on my mother's side never went to college. he was a delivery truck driver. he sold chryslers for a long time. he was able to buy a home . my grandmother never worked for wages outside the home. they raised five kids, most of whop went to college. i can't fathom that. >> i think that type of story isn't uncommon. my grandfather was largely the same way. for most of his life he was undocumented. he owned a home had seven kids who all went to college. for families today, there is so much in security. even those able to go to the college still face a difficult job market . part of the problem is it's not just our is system. it is the way we look at it with a type of i would say, a pal sis because people are frustrated in terms of with a do the we do. looking at our system at the macro level when you factor out things like tax policy and government spending policy s, structurally, the economy isn't set up for a type of inequality we have. we are more like european economies. at least at the theoretical level good news is that just as we created a lot of the income in inequality with policies we can change it. but the question is it's a political question. are we willing to do it? do we have the courage to do it? what type of country do we want to live in? >> the way you asked the question i thought the like this is the political dynamite we don't want to touch which is a question of the resources that any individual family has, how much go to your kids and how much do go to everybody else's kids. let me tell you. when you frame it like that the answer many want to answer is everything. everything i have goes to my children and none to other people's. >> i have had the fortune of spending time in a lot of different countries, countrieser tar equal, unequal, poor rich. >> and you were born in cleveland. >> which is a developing world. >> yes. >> one of the things you see in the least successful places on earth is that rich ander poor people don't just have income in inequality. they live parallel different lives. they want everything for their own kids and don't care about other people's kids. we are becoming in our omen tall ti if not in the per capita gdp a developing country in that way. >> that notion is one i want to dig into. i want to talk solutions. there are solutions to this. there are policies. there are ways to address that. before break i want to give you an update on the late forest are the g-7 summit. specifically the question about nations and where they are in the world. that summit got under way this morning in the resort town in the bavarian alps. president obama joined german chancellor merkel and the leaders of the other g-7 nations for two days of talks on world health economics, and international security. >> over the next two days we are going to discuss our shared future. the global economy that creates jobs and opportunity, maintaining a strong and prosperous european union. forging new trade partnerships across the atlantic. standing up to russian aggression in ukraine. combatting threats from violent extremism to climate change. >> the germans deployed 17,000 police officers to provide security for the event. yesterday in advance of the summit some of the police clashed with thousands of protesters demonstrating against the g-7 and raising concerns on a range of geez political and economic issues. up next the fight for 15 hits the heartland. why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? 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>> well there are lots of them. i love that the republican party is embracing inequality and talking about it. when i see rick -- >> you're not allowed to laugh, raul. >> i see rick perry saying we remember you the people on food stamps, the first thing that comes to mind yes, but your answer is to cut food stamp funding. it's not to raise the minimum wage, not to expand the earned income tax credit to childless workers. it is not to invest in universal affordable high quality child care not to do any of these things that would help people who work hard and live a decent life and give their kids a decent life. >> as we to the end, one thing saying $15 an our . people understand more money creates a better economic circumstance. but these other issues everything from immigration reform to child car care to reproductive rights are economic and inequality issues. they aren't always packaged that way. >> when we talk about raising the minimum wage to $15 as a point of reference, someone who earns $15 an hour and works $40 a week, you are still making $3 # 1 -- $31,000. >> gross. >> in major cities like los angeles and st. louis. not talking about a lot of money. there are things like we need more government regulation of the monopolies and what i call the explosives because tees things make republicans make their head blow off which is a pog sieve this can tax or possibly regulating the caps on the highest ceo levels of pay. those are things that are nonstarters for republicans. soo far although they are talking about income inequality to me it is a positioning of the message. it's not substantive policies. they are coopting a lot of rhetoric from the democrat quick side. i don't see them as embracing social safety net or change to a tax system to benefit most people. >> i don't want to be the ambassador prosecute from kumbaya here. >> why not? >> i love it. >> sometimes we miss large historical turning points. the idea that every candidate you showed is talking about the issue is a big deal. it's a moment. if we all a think this is a problem let's start by saying, maybe people on the left who cared about this more than the right, let's treat the new enentrants on the right are as guests coming to your home ment pour them a glass of water give them a nice place to sleep and maybe exploit the opportunity to have an adult, two-party conversation in which we begin by acknowledging that the left has some so insights and some blind spots about the problem and thing right has maybe some insights and some blind spots about the problem. >> the idea of when we talk about populism how does it look? i can't lead this conversation about both sides trying to do a populist message without playing a little bit of marco rubio talking about rap music. i promise i will pull it together. let's listen for a moment. >> your love of wu tan clan. do you have a favorite member? >> no. >> you can't pick a favorite? >> that's early '90s stuff. >> who do you like now? >> who do you listen to? >> i don't know -- listen to yes. not with my kids there. but pitbull. lives in my pleasuryes in mime. and there is a station called backspin with all the stuff from the '90s. i'm getting old. >> he's not talking about economics but is doing this i listen to the stuff the kids listen to. i guess i want it to be what you are saying new entrants everybody agreeing there is a problem and us dealing with it. when i see that moment i think this is politics. i'm going to do this thing in order to get voters to think i'm a regular guy. >> we see it on the left too. >> 100%. >> hillary talking about being broke and bill clinton, got to pay the bills. it's an inauthentic way to present themselves as one of you. history has shown you can be a wealthy person and do all you want for social change. economic policies. they feel a need to the present themselves in this particular way. >> everybody is problematic. or a lot of people are. it's amazing in a cycle that's maybe the most inequal on the left is the perfect embodiment of genuine merit and all of that stuff mixed together. so everybody as their stains. but if there is an opportunity to say, you know we have liberal places in america like new york city. they haven't figured out poverty. we have places like alabama. today haven't figured it out. when they have 80% popular support, no one mixes it. we need a new conversation. i think it starts with understanding. understanding the way jobs are important to people with dignity and well-being and on the other side how family community connections are important to being able to live that economic prosperity. >> and being able to name at least one member of the wu tan clan if they are your favorite group. thank you to the panel. raul will be sticking around. now to the latest on the controversy around den fis hastert. he's expected to be arraigned on large withdrawals to avoid federal reporting requirements to i pay off a man to cover up wrongdoing which nbc news learned was of a sexual nature. he's yet to comment publically on the allegations stemming from his time as a teacher in illinois. adam, what's the reaction in his hometown? >> good morning. there is plenty of people if yorkville standing by the formerer speaker. others are starting to have doubts and be disappointed as more revelations come to light. in two days he'll be arraigned. he remains in hiding. we haven't seen him since the indictment a week ago. the new york times reporting today that in 2010 he started to raise a lot of money. he was in a rush to get money to pay off the alleged person who is identified as individual a. he asked a colleague how he could get an annuity that would generate cash on an annual basis to pay this person off. this was a person identified as individual a. that's what we are learning. that's what with people here are saying they are starting to have are doubts about him and his story. melissa? >> thank you to adam reiss in yorkville, illinois. next on the heels of the scandal that rocked fifa the world cup is already under way. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. mmmmmm yoplait! good news everybody! there is now 25% less sugar in yoplait original. say "adieu" to that sugar. because it still tastes good! yoplait! ♪ roundup ♪ ♪ i'm a loving husband and a real good dad ♪ ♪ but weeds just make me rattlesnake mad ♪ ♪ well roundup has a sharp-shootin' wand ♪ ♪ i'm sendin' them weeds to the great beyond ♪ ♪ roundup ♪ yeha! 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[ whip cracks ] with a one-touch wand. we all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating industry-leading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed. it could help save tens of thousands of lives every year. and that would be something worth shouting about. cvs health, because health is everything. i will take beauty into my own hands. olay regenerist. it regenerates surface cells. new skin is revealed in only 5 days. without drastic measures. stunningly youthful. award-winning skin. from the world's #1. olay your best beautiful the woman's world cup kicked off yesterday in edmonton canada. the 7th women'ser world cup will feature 24 teams for the first time. 1 billion tv viewers are expected to tune in. yet there is still a sense that the month-long tournament has been eclipsed by the other soccer story that dominated headlines for more than a week. that's the investigation into fifa, soccer's governing body that uncovered decades of bribery totaling more than $150 million. on tuesday, fifa's chief announced his resignation just are days after being re-elected to a fifth term. according to some another type of misconduct is part of fifa culture. sexism. for one, women in the sport don't get an equal playing field. literally. this year's world cup will be played on artificial turf. conditions that male players don't have are to face in their world cup. players say the turf leads to hr more injuries and disrupt it is tempo of the game. last year 84 women players representing 13 players sued fifa and the canadian soccer association citing gender discrimination saying elite men's teams would never be forced to play on an artificial surface instead of natural grass. the athletes came warm-up a solution to install grass on some of the fields at no cost to fifa. but fifa wouldn't budge. in fact the official response was, we play on artificial turf and there is no plan b. in january the women with drew the lawsuit in order to focus on preparing for the world cup. then last month star forward and olympic gold medalist alexer mor dwan told "time" blatt the er didn't recognize her at a world player of the year event where she was a nominee. she said i feel leek i'm fighting for female athletes. the fifa president didn't know who i was. i was being honored as top three in the world of that was pretty shocking. the behavior isn't new for the man who called himself the godfather of women's soccer. in 2004 -- that's actually making the guests laughed. he had a suggestion in 2004 for women soccer players to increase the popularity of the game. let the women play in more feminine clothes like in volleyball. for example, tighterer shorts. maybe then he'd recognize them. two-time olympic world medalist and nba champion with the new york liberty. raul reyes, attorney and contributor to nbcnews.com. jason page who cracked up at the idea are. >> i promise, america, no tighterer shorts. >> he's on weeknights on nbc's sports radio and from washington, d.c. retired goalkeeper for the u.s. women's national soccer team which won the world cup in 1999. man, i don't know what to say. that was a lot. how big a deal is it that there literally is not in an equal playing field. that women will are going to play the world cup here on artificial turf? >> it is a really big deal. like you said earlier, there is no way fifa would ever even think about having the men's world cup on artificial turf. the fact they did it and then when the women objected to it just dismissed it outright goes to show the mentality of fifa that fifa has had against women with women for a long time. that determination to put our world cup, the biggest crown jewel of women's soccer that's one every four years on art tishl fur tr tur -- artificial tur the of is disrespectful. >> oner more soccer question here. in 201 # 1 the usa versus brazil. that extraordinary game was watched by more people than the kentucky derby. and the new york times mentioned a couple days ago a men's team coming off that performance and tv ratings would have arrived home to several issen figure european club contracts, endorsement deals but the women returned to a professional league on its death bed. women's professional soccer folded the following january. it was the second u.s. women's soccer league to go bust since 1999. what's going on with women and soccer in the u.s. >> the one thing you have to understand is two different criterion for salaries and fees. so for the federation the problem really is not only the league but the fact that the federation has the men's team finish second in a world cup would have gotten bonuses in up upwards of 250, 500,000 dollars per player. i don't know what the women got. but i can guarantee you it wasn't $250,000 a player. i'm guessing at the most they got maybe $50,000 a player. that's five ten times lower than what the men would have gotten. there's the original crime. of course then you said coming home and no women's league. the women's league disintegrating. that's been an ongoing problem we have had in this can i, trying to get the right formula to contain and maintain a whip's league. we haven't been able to figure it out yetment it's really unfortunate. >> this is not a problem that you are unfamiliar with in the sense of the wnba and the ways those same inequalities operate there. just this week we have the new york times saying maybe one of the ways to address this -- this is the new york times op-ed saying women would keep playing to half empty arenas. you could inject excitement into the sport and get the athletes more exposure by lowering the rims. >> mm-hmm. my thought on that it's interesting. when you make a statement like you lower the rim ares at the professional level it trickles down to the grassroots level. grie up playing against guys. we all played on the same basket shot the same ball. it wasn't anything. there is always a gimmick they are looking for in order to improve the women's game. why is that? for so many years now we have had the best women this the world playing here in this country. dominant. in 2012 i was on the olympic team. we were there for the fifth gold and we had to fight for press. we talk about the u.s. and how great we want to be dominant and the best of everything. when you have the best do you the appreciate and respect the best? doesn't seem like it to me. >> but are the shorts tight enough? >> every year. do we change up the uniform? what's going on? >> understand. why do they want to gimmick it up? it goes back to are people watching, paying attention? >> hr more people watched the 2011 match than the kentucky derby. >> don't compare toyota the kentucky derby. it's the first of the triple crown krass. the world cup is every four years. we have to cool it there in terms of making those sorts of comparison. at the same time we say gimmick it up because not enough people are watching. how do we make people watch? how do you make the wnba break into the baseball landscape that goes under that time of year and the nfl. how do you break the barrier if you are the wnba? i don't know. i'm as big a women's basketball fan as anybody being from the state of connecticut. but it can't gain traction. i don't know why. >> gaining the traction also comes from how people are covering it. >> exactly. >> rather than changing the game which to me is what we are talking about with whip's cup soccer. it's making it separate but equal which we know never really works out. what they should be doing is look at the way it's covered. the fact is one of the things i hear people say about women's sport is, well, those games are boring, not excite ing. maybe some people could say it and to an ex tent you could agree they are boring because you don't see player profiles to invest in who they are. >> exactly. >> there is one wide shot and that's it. you don't have the bells and whistles men's sports have to make you care about the player the journey, the tape's journey. all of that we have in men's coverage is nonexistent with women with. they have to get the coverage if they can. >> i want to get into one of the biggest parts of this -- the money. water-repellent. up to 48-hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. that's your first "win." plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network. there's your next "win." now for final "win." get $250 when you trade in any smartphone. and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. it's a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. mmmmm, these are good! nice work, phillips! the tasty side of fiber, from phillips'. ♪ ♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. 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(vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. the women's world cup has arrived kicking off in edmonton. with team usa ranked number two some say the u.s. women are set to end their 15-year world cup drought. many home the perceived culture of gender in equality will also pay. women are paid between $6,000 and $31,000 per season but men get an average of $200,000 and can earn up to $7 million. there is a discrepancy with the with prize money, a big one. germany's men's soccer team won the world cup in brazil. the players we regard was prize money around $35 million. in 2011 japan women's national team won in germany. their prize money, $1 million. bbc are sports study into prize money found 30% of sports reward men more iegly than women. football, as we call it, soccer was among the sports with the biggest prize money disparities. during the break i was trying to think up a solution to the problem of building audiences. my solution is in 2016 we go completely dark on all media coverage of men's sports just for a year. we have the only televised sports the only print sports is only women's sport. see whether or not women could get a fan base if in fact they were the people who were constantly on the televisions and in the newspapers. >> i'm not sure the major sponsors would agree with the plan. but i appreciate the effort. seriously, in response to the graphic about prize money, that's a very interesting graphic to me. i remember. i played in four world cups. i remember back in the day we had to negotiate our contracts with the u.s. soccer federation. that was a touchy subject for us. we thought we deserved the same salary at least as the men. eventually we got something comparable. what we didn't get was the bonus money. like i said the men were making $250,000, $500 ,000 for pab getting into the quarter finals, semifinals and we were expected to win our world cups and we weren't getting anywhere near you know, ten times, five times less for doing better. also if having you know, the history of winning a world cup in the past and not able to come near the numbers the menner were getting in bonus money. it's a little bit unfair. er more unfair because if you understand the structure of how the pamyments are made sponsorship money comes in to the federation. they get the money from fifa. it's not earmarked for men or women. it goes into the pot. why not reward those who are doing their job with the money from the pot? >> as we are thinking about this we were talking about it on the break, how do you break through it. let's talk about the williams sisters. serena just winning. there was a moment women's tennis was similarly marginized. now it's not part of the televised american connection to these women as players. >> i don't disagree with you. look at what serena and venus did for the women's side of the game spaesh in this country. it is interesting to see how it is treated here versus worldwide. there is a difference. even in women's basketball. the way it is treated worldwide versus the way it is here in the united states. we talk about this issue in terms of compensation. why is it treated differently in europe? asia and places like that versus the way it is here. what allows them to have a model able to pay people so much more and we weren't able to do that. why? >> i can say one thing. it also has to start at the top. who are the people making the decisions? for me when i go into a sponsorship meeting and we are trying to get a sponsor for the team. i look around the room and i say, i wonder if some of these people is have are a clue. do they look like you? do they understand the game? have they played at that level? do they have someone who understands? >> do i they know about the young women who will buy the products because of their -- i think about my niece who was a star high school basketball player who, if any product had been connected with swin cash she would have spent all her high school dollars on those products. >> it's tesch. a lot of times our fan base the younger fans are looking for products. why do you have to search to to get your jersey? why do i have to search to get something from swin cash a book, this thatter or the other. go to the men's side and they are throwing endorsements at them. back to 2012 the women going for their fifth olympic dwold gold medal. the whip's basketball team. you could see the difference in how the coverage was presented. other going to win again. this is dominance. this is history. you want to tell the story. you want young girls to be happy. they want to be the next basketball player. >> when michael jordan was winning they weren't like oh god, that guy. thank you to briana curry. swin and raul will be back next hour . of course we couldn't do sports without telling you about the little horse that made history. american pharoah winner of the kentucky derby and the preakness, completed the ult ultimate sports trifecta at the belmont stakes. american pharoah became the first triple down winner since 1978. >> the 37-year wait the over. american pharoah is finally the one. american pharoah has won the triple crown! [ cheers and applause ] >> all the feeling. only the 12th triple crown winner in horse racing history. for his owner he's earned more than $4.5 million. he could soon earn more. after winning the triple crown american pharoah could be worth $100 million, largely because of stud fees. oh america. still to come this morning, the master chef contestant breaking barriers but first the no button and why we have one, how we use it and who needs it most? ortho home defense gives you year long control of all these household bugs - roaches, ants, and spiders. spectracide gives you year long control... of just roaches. their label says so. got more than roaches moving in? get home defense. the label tells the story. some weed killers are overzealous. they even destroy your lawn. ortho weed b gon kills weeds... not lawns. our label says it. your grass proves it. get ortho weed b gon. the label tells the story. unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription 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>>pretty good? i know i have a 798 fico score thanks to the tools and help on experian.com. kaboom... well, i just have a few other questions. >>chuck, the only other question you need to ask is, "what else can you do for me?" i'll just take a water... get your credit swagger on. become a member of experian credit tracker and find out your fico score powered by experian. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. this is our no button. we keep it in the nerdland offices for times when what is being said doesn't need a complicated retort. just a simple -- no. my producer eric who actually has a voice that sounds surprisingly like this will say let's do a show where melissa gets dunked into a water tank if she mispronounces a guest name. we don't need to discuss itment just a quick push of a button. >> no! >>er part of the fun is you never know which no you will get. there is. >> no! >> and then there's. >> n-o. >> of course there is also -- >> no! >> they're good. the no button is the work of a company called zany toys a mom and pop shop. here are mom and pop engineering amy and vinny tiernan and their daughters. as any parent foes they found themselves saying "no" a lot. they thought maybe other parents could use a short cut, too. hence the no button. in all of its practical uses which brings me to chester hayes, son of oscar winning actor tom hanks because chet hayes -- >> no, no no. >> that's it. we don't really need more. it's simply not going deep on this one. in case you didn't know this already, last weekend chet hayes who is something of a rapper posted this note on instagram. check out the song me and my n-word at chill that dude just dropped. -- >> no! >> i mean let me just channel jay smooth here. no. that's it. i'm not going deep on whether or not white people can use the n word or whether or not you use it in the form with the e-r versus the a, a-z or -- no. just no. i saw the ex-mr. nation that hayes, aka hanks, posted on instagram. >> look. i know the majority of y'all aren't going to get thisment the history is still so fresh in our country. but hip-hop isn't about race. it's about the cull cure you identify with. can't no one tell me what i can't say. >> uh, no. i don't think i need to hit the button again yet. here is a further offering from hayes. >> i just want to clarify one thing. under no circumstances would i ever go up to somebody that i didn't know and just be like hey, what's up my [ bleep ]. it is an unspoken thing between people who are friends who understand each other. >> there is so much to say. but since we are not friends and maybe we don't understand each other and therefore i don't want to be misunderstood, let me just say -- >> no! anoro ellipta. it helps people with copd breathe better for a full 24hours. anoro ellipta is the first fda-approved product containing two long-acting bronchodilators in one inhaler. anoro is not for asthma. anoro contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people 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one place. get live tv whenever you want. the xfinity tv go app. now with live tv on the go. enjoy over wifi or on verizon wireless 4g lte. plus enjoy special savings when you purchase any new verizon wireless smartphone or tablet from comcast. visit comcast.com/wireless to learn more. every week contestants on "master chef" chop diensdce and dish up delicious dishes. the food is compelling but what makes us turn in is the amateur chefs. the season started with 40 contestants from 16 different states representing many different walks of life. one of the amateur chefs is already will getting a lot of attention in and out of the kitchen. >> my name is amanda. i grew up in a strict lebanese family. i came to love cooking by seeing my grandmother cooker for the entire family. i cook middle eastern fusion food. i am the expert when it comes to cooking lamb. >> apanda is a social worker by day who says even as a 5-year-old she loved cooking. she happens to be the first muslim-american woman who appear in hijab on an american cooking show. so she's hoping to break down stereotypes along the way. i'm pleased to welcome amanda to nerdland. nice to have you here. >> thank you for having me. >> first, talk to me about cooking. you are a social worker but you are an extraordinary chef. >> thank you. >> what does cooking do for you? >> it's so important. my family gets together around foodment i'm visiting family in detroit now. we all get together. we are in the kitchen with my grandma. she teaches us her old world secrets and tricks in the kitchen. it's so unifying. you can have a great discussion with people when you are around good food. >> for me it feels like a universal answer to what food means to families communities. it makes master chef fun because people come from all different spaces. >> absolutely. >> talk to me about your hijab and the strong mostly positive but i'm sure positive and negative reactions you have received. >> people are excited to see a muslim-american hijabi on this cooking competition. people are curious. you know why did it take so long? it's 2015. there are lots of muslim women who love to cook. i'm not the first. i though that. i hope i won't be the last to appear on such a great platform. people are excited. i'm excited about it. i'm being me doing what i love. to get the support i'm getting is incredible. >> it feels to me like one of the presumptions about hijab is it is representative of gender inequity, women being oh pressed. the idea that you would be allowed to be on television and cooking and follow your dream is part of what people are responding to. >> right. i decided to put on hijab at 17 years old by myself. my parents had a long discussion with me at the time. mom didn't wear a hijab. they were like are you sure? i said this is the way i want to practice my faith, show devotion to god and make a conscious decision every day to say my faith is first. no man in my life said you need to wear that. i wear it fashionably, i would like to say. no one is telling me to wear this. i'm doing it for me. i like to be out there and on this platform to say, hey, we are not oh pressed. >> one of the aspects when you talk about fan, community, religion faith, national origin is that food ends up representing those things. back in 2013 on the australian version of the show samir was eliminated during a time she had to make a pork hot dog. there was conversation and question about -- we have seen vegetarians on the cooking shows make meat. i wonder about accommodation of food practices in the context of an american cooking competition? >> i have gone through my life not ex expecting accommodations if for ig anything. i'm here to play like everybody else. i want an even playing field. i don't expect accommodations. i'm not going to ask for it. one of the things i was preparing to be on master chef is i was studying how to cook pork. how to cook with alcohol. those are things i was inexperienced with. i studied so tate it wouldn't be a weakness. >> i love that sentence. it i makes me angry but gives me power. i never expected accommodation for anything and the sense of there is always that. might be a black woman. that's how we do it too. i appreciate your cooking and your bebeing ear. >> thank you very much. >> up next the caitlyn jenner effect and what the "vanity fair" cover reveals. cory feldman, aka, mouth, joins us. about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. and you only take it when you need it. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you 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[whirring drones] just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. ♪ [whirring drones] ♪ no sudden movements. ♪ [screaming panic] ♪ [whirring drones] google search: bodega beach house. ♪ ♪ [drones crashing] ♪ you could sit at your computer and read all about zero-turn mowers. click. scroll. tweet. or you could just sit on a john deere z435 eztrak and feel its power. you'll know it'll get the job done fast. when it's time to pick a mower you've got to get on one. visit your local john deere dealer for a test drive today. sign up to take your turn on a z435 and save 100 dollars on your purchase. nothing runs like a deere. chocolate! yeah! for the grand prize... fruity and honey nut! yes!! that's not a cheerio! [laughs] no can we play again? yeah! this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. one year ago this week time magazine featured transtrans gender actress and activist la kern cox with a headline proclaiming the arrival of the trans gender tipping point. in the cover story time's katie sitespan writes almost one year after the supreme court rule that americans were free to marry the person they loved no matter their sex, another civil rights movement is poised to challenge long held cultural norms and beliefs. trans gender people are emerging from the margins to fight for an equal place in society . the result according to time was a radical increase in trans consciousness. today the rapid evolution and our recognition of trans identity shows no signs of stopping. on monday the release of another magazine cover featuring another celebrity trans woman pushed what was once marginal subculture even further into the main stream. in an april abc news interview with diane sawyer reality show personality and athlete bruce jenner started getting us accustomed to pronoun change that would soon be appropriate to reference the female self jenner has always identified with. she -- not he her, not him. with the release of the july cover of "vanity fair" this week we got our first introduction to her and the that i mean she's chosen for herself. on the cover, jenner shot by annie leibowitz [whistle] is in a glamorous pin-up style photo to simply call me caitlyn. jenner's unveiling of herself has met with support across media including from president obama who tweeted, it takes courage to share your story. jennerer said of the public transition i'm happy after a long struggle to be living my true self. welcome to the world, caitlyn. can't wait for you to get to me her/me. there is certainly a lot to celebrate at caitlyn's getting to the know you party. people who never gave much thought to gender identity arer considering a construct more complicated than a masculine/feminine binary. more importantly reaching the tipping point opened up space for the humanity of trans gender people to be seen. as laverne cox reminds us on her tumbler this week that means looking beyond the glossy cover writing most trans folks don't have the privileges caitlyn and i have. we must continue to lift them up, get them access to health care, jobs housing, safe streets, safe schools and homes for young paem. we must lift up the stories of those most at risk. statistically trans people of color who are poor and working class. cox's point that we constitutionality see highly visible trans people without recognizing the vulnerability of trans identity is acutely apparent in stories like this. the advocate reporting on the stabbing death in philadelphia of london chanel the eighth trans woman to be murdered this year. just this week in new york a trans gender woman pushed onto the subway tracks in an incident police are investigating as a possible hate crime. then stories we know of trans gender teens who have taken their own lives. so many in 2015 we can barely fit them on a screen. even as we remember this trans gender tipping point at the moment everything changed it's also the year in which life for so many peep who are trans gender remain tragically the same. joining me now, the executive drekerror tor of the national center for trans gender equality. raul reyes of on nbc news.com. the creative director of the world tour. the ceo of the law project. and carlos mata program director at paid i can't matters for america. thank you all for being here. okay. we talked after the initial 2020 interview. are you surprised at what's been a genuinely and generally positive reaction to caitlyn jennerer? jenner? >> yes, a little bit, i think. butter very pleased. i have been very pleased at how the media has really taken the opportunity to to go in and talk to lots of different trans people. hundreds of trans people. i saw somebody on facebook yesterday saying a group of latina trans women went into a univision station in houston or austin and told their stories. so this one prn's personal story has turned into an opportunity for hundreds of people to tell their personal stories. i hate saying this. but the onion maybe has gotten back. the onion did a story last week that trans activists were surprised that baskin-robbins has come out in favor of trans gender equality. that's the kind of year or two we have been having are. people are seeing us more. people are supporting us more . still right before caitlyn jenner came out, the human rights campaign did a survey that showed among american voters only 20% said they knew one of us. i hope caitlyn jenner has bumped that up a couple of points and all the secondary stories. >> this point about the idea of knowledge of the kind of intimacy is part of the margins to center story we have seen in other spaces. even if we go back to a harvey milk moment. it's part of the notion of coming out as a version. we have seen it in those that are undocumented coming out as undocumented. yet as an african-american from the south i know intimacy is insufficient for a support of equality. black folks live right next to white folks through our history and it didn't necessarily lead to the sense of and therefore we must fight for equality. >> right. i think it is coming. i look at the trans gender community now. with caitlyn jennerer it wasn't a tipping point. it is one of several . i think maybe two years, thinking back to maybe two years ago when chaz bono was on "dancing with the stars." that's a main stream middle of america show. that's a show maybe your grandparents watch. just for him to be on the praping, to start conversations in people's homes. little things like that matter. what i hear about for many people is the notion people have of well what he wants to do is fine but i'm uncomfortable with it. that's a good thing. because we go os our society grows and evolves, we go from invisibility to repulsion to uncomfortable. eventually tolerant. eventually acceptance. eventually support. this is part of the broader shift we are going through with the trans gender community. as wonderful as it is for caitlyn jenner as you touch on it here when you look at statistics of life as a typical trans gender person 40% attempt suicide. 70% of the violence aimed at lgbt people is aped at trans genderer women. the are reality of life for most trans gender people is difficult. >> not caitlyn's. i want to clue you in on this because i have long thought of myself as a good ally to lgbt communities. i don't know are, maybe five years ago just got red on twitterer. just when i used to really read the @replies. you think he's -- whoa ! i spent a lot of time trying to figure out the ways i was failing around the notion of sip polygender as a social construct. that alone was so left out of my understanding around the idea of race as a social construct. and keep delving into the question. finding that so many of my initial entry points had been through people of relative privilege as they are in all communities. not having for example janet me the mox write text to me he. i wonder how we get better and not just applaud ourselves for being so good at the caitlyn jenner moment. >> thank you very much for having me on. i remember when you got red. >> red! >> i may have been one of the people. >> good. >> even three years ago when mara was here first and you had a big trans genderer in america story and there were no trans people of color. one of the ways we push this forward is centralizing the most vulnerable people which is trans women of color. i actually brought redefining realness which was the blueprint of my path to womanhood . it came out in paper back and i saw you on oh the cover. you said you would be changed by the book and it's true. we have so many stories out there. it's not fair to have one person be the face of a movement. it's impossible really. it shift it is conversation to folks who are having access to things like health care that we can't get. it's just the conversations of people who are privileged. so my mentor always talks about change. dismantle and build. so change was the covers that we see. that's the change we want to see in the world. we see caitlyn jenner and laverne cox on the covers. we also have to the dispantle systems of white supremacy and capitalism. then we have to build back up what we want to see in the world. i'm sorry i look tired. we were on set last night until 4:00 a.m. filming "happy birthday marcia." there are so many trans gender tipping points like in 1969 when street kids and trans women of color and drag queens said no more. and so those are all tipping points that i'm proud to be a part of. >> it's interesting that you bring up stone wall. we talked about it when we were at a moment trying to think about what a watershed moment is. we are looking for pictures, right? there is one image of the stone wall right. thinking about that. stone wall is without coverage in part because the media simply didn't bother to cover what was happen ing when stone wall happened. >> we are debating what's good coverage. i was the first one screaming when i saw the "vanity fair" cover thinking this is great. at the same time that's a very specific depiction of trans people . >> and of womanhood in general. >> very dependent on resource that is most people don't have in most cases. one of the frustrating things is it tends to be celebrity and spectacle or yented. we love trans celeb 'tis and love talking about caitlyn jenner who most of us aren't like and will never be. when caitlyn jennerer said, you know, for the record, trans women of color face rates ofs have. that's the first time it's been talked about on national television. there is a problem of focusing on celebrity, ignoring less sexy things. the selma pictures are affected because they are cultural problems supposed to stories that are interesting and could be a segue into broader stories but really isn't the trans experience in the most case. >> thanks to raul and the rest of the panel sticking around. we have more. stay there. when we come back i want to talk about masculinity, femininity, beauty and sport. ♪ ♪ fresher dentures... ...for those breathless moments. hug loud, live loud, polident. ♪ ♪ it takes nature 90 days to grow the most golden oats. 7,200 hours to create the purest honey and, it only takes you 3 minutes to enjoy it. perhaps we made it too delicious. nature valley, nature at its most delicious. ortho home defense gives you year long control of all these household bugs - roaches, ants, and spiders. spectracide gives you year long control... of just roaches. 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building a better california. female announcer: want your best rest ever? then don't miss sleep train's best rest event. you'll find sleep train's very best mattresses at the guaranteed lowest price. plus, pay no interest for three years on beautyrest black, stearns & foster serta icomfort even tempur-pedic. and rest even better with sleep train's risk-free 100-day money back guarantee. get your best rest ever from sleep train. ...guaranteed! ♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ caitlyn jenner's "vanity fair" cover introduced us to name and appearance and a specific type of femininity. softly lit wearing lingerie. she's beautiful but it is a glamorous version of beauty. it is a stark contrast to the masculine identity she's shedding which was for years define had had in large part by her image of the consummate american athlete. i want to welcome back wnba channel swin cash. just keep thinking about the ex tent to which bruce jenner the masculinity of bruce jennerer is in part constituted by bruce's role as a decath leet. this is how america understands how who bruce jenner is. i think both things at the same time i'm watching the usa world cup women in full makeup hair performing often this kind of femininity over and against their own role as women in sport. i'm thinking man, it just got really complicated in these ways that i think must be difficult for everybody dealing with masculinity, femininity womanness, manness, transness. i wonder how it plays out in who we are in the authenticity and sport. >> it's difficult, i think for athletes. i knew i was woman coming on the show and i wanted to talk to athletes friends of mine to see what they thought about everything. one thing caitlyn jenner has done is open up the conversation. when we think about sports and athletes we think whenner you are on the field you have a masculine, strong tough. you are an athlete. you get after it. now it's switching and you are seeing a different side. we are different on the field versus off. you're having the discussion. what came to mind for me is a lot of people didn't want to touch it. they said swin don't go on the show. don't say anything. we are not informed enough. if we speak on it it's like death. i would like to see more people having dialogue and opening up the conversations and learning more about people like caitlyn jenner jenner, about cox. that will help us as a society. not just the athlete part but just if general. >> so on the one hand screaming with joy about the beautiful "vanity fair" cover but also thinking that's a lot of pressure for any woman in her 60s to have to be pin-up cover girl gorgeous. even as we start to expand challenge the notions about genderer identity we are reinscribing these definitional pressures that are still very sis normative about what makes a woman beautiful. >> absolutely. i have all sorts of complicated feelings about this. it's interesting that jennerer is -- jenner is the oldest woman on the cover of "vanity fair," period. >> period. >> that tells us something. i don't know caitlyn. she may be a very fen identified person. this the might be her thing for a while and like most women in their 60s -- >> it's a lot. >> it's a lot. for me it's spg i think about. i don't are happen to be an overly feminine person. but i would love to have shorter hair again. i don't like to fuss around. but for me this is a bit of a safety thing. i'm over 6'0" tall like jenner. i have to worry about how i walk around in the world. by presenting a little bitter more traditionally female i think i'm a lot safer. i don't know if that weighs in to jenner saying -- and i just want to say my friends and family are probably fascinated that i'm on television talking about fashion and sports. because it's not my thing. on the 50th anniversary of the griswald decision, for instance boy, you know contraception is at risk privacy is at risk. this isn't just -- this isn't my biggest concern. >> and yet what you said i think, is so creditle callitical. the idea -- just if people don't know the lingo. in this relatively far row definition of womanhood that is feminine the idea of protected in the context of public vulnerability because of what we know about the vulnerability of trans women to violence and harassment on the street. so this is part of what laverne cox talks about. the idea of being drop dead gorgeous from certain lighting angles. being able to embody certain beauty standards. but it might not be about beauty but public safety. >> i don't want to be a debbie downerer. but if we can talk real for a moment. >> yeah. >> trans women of color have been doing this work in the media for a few years pretty intensely. we have a beautiful moment this year with laverne cox on katie co uric where she asked about her private area. >> she flipped it and said i don't talk about that. we need to the change the conversation. people who are most vulnerable. there are so many other things. my friend and mentor talks about we need to kanye this moment. caitlyn, i'm going to let you finish but trans people of color are more likely to be harassed on the street. it's like we are going back to trans 101. we tried to push it to 201 and 301. even last year when beyonce was on the cover of time 100 and was wearing something similar to what caitlyn jenner was with wearing but she was more covered with a white sheer top on . beyonce got red, gotle called a horrible mother, relying on her sexuality. we need to point out and recognize the double standard for women of color and white women and whose boisd and stories are celebrated publically in the media. >> the question of body. i appreciate you for pushing this. the point isn't to talk about what looks good or doesn't or with a we think is beautiful. but the way it gets inscribed in our policy. in questions of everything from contraception to the health care access which we know are central questions, particularly for trans folks. thank you to swin cash for talking about the conversation. the rest of the panel will be sticking around. up next the difficult week had by pronouns across america. how the press is feeling good this week and maybe how we need to check it a little bit. ah... 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>> i think every marginalized group has to deal with the desire for a short cut to tolerance by mimicking the dominant group and trying to find beauty validity and some difference. >> the idea of validity and -- but the other piece is people pass. right? this is a brilliant work by alfred hobbs around racial passing. people pass not because theyle value safety more but because of the protection question. whiteness came with values. not being cut off in a conversation if you are a woman. so in those ways the capacity to pass as cis, straight white are a reflection of how the identities simply have more goodies associated with them. >> first of all, i want to say passing is a terrible word. passing implies failure as an alternative. that's not how we have to think of this. if you see a woman who doesn't look like a woman you have seen before or a man or someone in between, it is always okay to ask. what pronoun they prefer and respect it once they tell you. second of all, that's your chance to expand your definition of a womaner or a man. this starts at any age. i think what caitlyn jenner has done which is impressive is proof that 65 is never too late to invent yourself again. >> hmm. i'm glad you said it's always okay to ask the pronoun a person prefers as opposed to it's okay to ask. i had a black woman moment. it's not okay to touch my hair because you have never seen hair like this. i wonder the about the politics of navigating a world where people ask about your identity. you know i don't know that i'm sure i feel good about the idea of it's always okay to ask. >> to me it's not. >> maybe we shouldn't tell everybody to ask everyone. >> for so long i didn't touch the subject, much like swin said earlier. i didn't want to miss the opportunity and this moment to raise visibility for people who are gender nonconforming and exist outside of the binary. types people don't have language or access to that will sis to say what is a pronoun? do i have options? facebook updated into 50 options and people are still trying to wrap their head around it. >> i have a gender nonconforming niece who is not trans but is gender nonconforming. i wonder about the way we are missing what would have been called the stone butch blues which are part of the story. it's not just a binary. >> yeah. those are the people who are most vulnerable and at risk. not everybody has the privilege of looking cis or looking white. i'm dark-skinned. i'm bigger. i don't pass if that's a thing. i am redefining realness in my own way. not just for me but for so many other folks. >> mara in the five seconds we have, if we had the policy agenda, what does that look like? >> the policy agenda is access to health care. access to decency. it's really about compassion, the golden rule. trans peep want to be treated like everybody else. we want to live our lives, not be murdered. >> again, as i keep looking for the points of connection even to say trans people want to be not murdered. that's the call of the black lives matter as well. the idea of being able to be safe in a public space while being who uh-uh. thank you to hannah simpson, carlos maza. we're having a good time. you should call me on twitter. when we come back something different. do you know what a cult classic movie treasure was released 30 years ago this day? 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[ grunts ] [ laughter ] >> well, those kids grew up -- kind of and converged this week in the seaside down of astoria, oregon where the movie was filmed. we wanted to see what goonies day was all about. ♪ >> five years ago we had about 15,000 goonies fans in the town of 10,000. this year for the 30th we expect more. it resonates for a lot of people because as kids a lot of times we feel like outsider. >> we are here to cell are brat a movie that captured our imaginations. you see your parents go through hard time and stress. this is one of the first movies i remember as a kid where it freed your imagination to see what was going on. it gave the kids the ability to save their parents in this movie. >> they came together helped each other out. >> it's a timeless classic that connects us to childhood. it's an adventure we wish we would have had as kids. >> it's one of my favorite childhood movies. >> it's everything. the pirateness the adventure. >> for a story for goonies fans coming here it's like recapturing their childhood and stepping into the movie. there are so many real places like the jail the house the bowling alley, down at the beach, the rock. all the place this is the movie are real places. we are not just a movie set. we are with a town. people live here. for them it's stepping into the movie and into their childhood. >> when we come back i'm excited to welcome to therd nerdland mouth. actor and musician cory feldman is next. name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? we'll give you four good reasons. the volkswagen golf. starting at $19,295, there's an award-winning golf for everyone. you show up. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. the world is filled with air. but for people with copd sometimes breathing air can be difficult. if you have copd, ask your doctor about once-daily anoro ellipta. it helps people with copd breathe better for a full 24hours. anoro ellipta is the first fda-approved product containing two long-acting bronchodilators in one inhaler. anoro is not for asthma. anoro contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. it is not known if this risk is increased in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden copd symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, or high blood pressure. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma, prostate or bladder problems, or problems passing urine as anoro may make these problems worse. call your doctor right away if you have worsened breathing chest pain, swelling of your mouth or tongue, problems urinating or eye problems including vision changes or eye pain while taking anoro. nothing can reverse copd. the world is filled with air and anoro is helping people with copd breath air better. get your first prescription free at anoro.com. you wouldn't take medicine without checking the side effects. hey honey. huh. the good news is my hypertension is gone. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck. you're welcome. ugh...you're the valet? yea, sorta the valet. both drive for a living, both like to save money on car insurance and we both know you may not get this car back in the same condition. watch your toes. wo! ya boy... get it! sorta you isn't you. with drivesense from esurance, you can earn a personalized discount based on how you drive not how someone sorta like you drives. you'll even get a discount just for signing up. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. what do you want? >> water. >> water. >> four waters. is that all? >> no. i want the veal scaloppini fetuccini alfredo. >> the only thing we serve is tongue. [ screaming ] >> you boys like tongue? [ laughter ] >> that was a scene with actor cory feldman, then 13 years old and director richard donner's kwoez"the goonies" underneath was a story about kids fighting to save their homes from foreclosure. while not the most diverse on screen group they gave everyone something to identify with. mikey was the leader. his brother brand the muscle. data was the brand. chunk the group's spiritment when brand's girlfriend andy was dragged into the mix her spunky best friend was more than a match for the aptly nicknamed mouth. >> wow. president lincoln. george washington. martin sheen -- >> martin seen? >> that's president kennedy, you idiot. >> same difference. i mean he played kennedy once. >> that's really smart. i'm glad to know you're using your brain. >> at least i have a brain. >> so stupid mouth. >> oh, yeah? >> yes! >> shut up. >> joining me now is the all grown up man behind mouth. actor and pew sigs cory feldman. i have to tell you that the level of enthusiasm from my executive producer eric and having a chance to talk to you before we came on air, you actually turned him into into a goonics e. >> thank you! bless youment bless eric. >> there is a debate raging if in nerdland now. is goonies just a boy movie? . >> heck no. we have more girl fans probably ethan boy fans. that's the crazy thing. every girl is like goonies, goonies, all the time. >> there is something about the particular idea of adventure, of the language you used earlier is swash bucking. have we in any way lost that in our movies. this idea of young people on their own. no parents particularly to be found. being the star thes of their own story. >> their own adventure. yes. well i agree there is less of that. i think a lot of it has to do with so much politics these days. you have to go back 30 years. we didn't have such strict rules and regulation on parenting and what was responsible versus irresponsible and all those things which are now hot points and hot topics that people are afraid to you know president their foot in the hot water. in those days we didn't think about things like that. the idea of kids going off on an adventure was real. in those days they did. nowadays the biggest adventure is connecting on x-box live. >> my parents are terrific parents and all of that. they weren't really -- i mean, in most of my day to day, i don't know where they were. i was there with my sisters, kind of groups of kids. >> correct. >> i wonder what was that experience like to be on set with a group of young people. were you having an adventure in the filming itself? >> oh, slueabsolutely. to this day everybody says what was your favorite film to work on. my favorite film to watch and my favorite film to work on which is two different answers. to work on the answer is simply "the goonies." who else could imagine having to go to work every day, to work on a pirate ship be with seven kids who are all fun and outgoing and adventurous. of course with the two biggest kids of all which is steven spellberg and richard donner. they were big children on the set every day. we were all playing on the water slides on the pirate ship. michael jackson pee-wee her man, cindy lauper harrison ford. everybody you can think of wanted to be on set. when they unveiled the pirate ship it was like they had just built another world. everybody wanted to be a part of it. >> one of my producers wants to know whether or not you still have mouth's purple rain t-shirt t-shirt. >> unfortunately i was conned by a master manipulator who unfortunately was not a great influence on children and this guy plan plaited me into selling him my entire goonies outfit and pi bike from the movie for, like $40 when i was a kid. tragic. >> that's officially tragic. >> it is. but i have some mementos i keep in the house which are random. things like i have one of the original gold dubloons andy's a from her sweater which maybe kerry green may want one day. i don't know. if she's watching, give me a call. >> i have been seeing on twitter people asking if there are any screenings of "the goonies" for the 30th anniversary. people want to see it together, i think, with their friends. do you have one coming up? >> as the story is blowing up big this weekend, everybody is there. i couldn't make it because i'm preparing for my first concert with my new live band. i have a new double album coming out called "angelic to the core". it will be out at the end of the summerer. i have a band of beautiful female models called the angels. we are doing our big premiere concert at bonnaroo alongside a "the goonies" 30th anniversary screening. it will be the corey feldman experience at the cinema tent. we'll do a concert with the angels and screen "the goonies." it will be fantastic. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> again, you made a lot of people's day today but particularly eric . >> never say die! it may happen 30 years later. okay. >> thanks for joining us. >> thank youment god bless. >> up next the graduate. she went from homeless to high school mom to valedictorian. she joins me next. in the nation, we know how you feel about your car. so when coverage really counts you can count on nationwide. ♪ love ♪ because what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love is strange ♪ just another way we put members first. join the nation. ♪ baby... ♪ ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ how much protein does your dog food have? 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>> well what was really hard for me was not getting enough sleep. she was -- she would sleep a lot during the day so i would be up during the night. and i would get about three hours of sleep and i would have to wake up and go to school. so during my class periods i would be in there with my eyes wide open so i wouldn't fall asleep. also spending time with her. i had a bad habit of spending a lot of time at school because i wanted to keep my grades up and i felt like i was spending a lot of time away from her and things i felt like i was missing out on so not being able to feel more comfortable being at every moment she make in her life was really hard for me. >> those are the issues that every mom faces that idea of getting enough sleep and also being a working mom trying to do what you have to do and want to be there for your child. so i know for me it's all about having a support network. who were the people that supported you? >> a lot of the people that supported me are my grandma's school teachers from west preparatory academy and a lot of my teachers from high school the staff, the administration they are all very supportive and especially my family my mom, my brothers and sisters, they support me all the way. my mom is my biggest number one support. she helped me a lot with my child and i have nine siblings so she has to help with them me and my child and a nephew she help with. she's a strong woman and supports a lot. the staff members from wells prep i wanted to stay close to my school. they was helping me because i didn't want to go to a school where i was going to feel like i wasn't being appreciated and i felt like the teachers wasn't going to treat me right because i was afraid they would judge me from being a parent and my high school teachers they helped me a lot when it came to college and making decisions. my counselor. she went on every college tour with me. every college visit. >> where are you going to go to college? >> i'm going to western illinois university. >> let me ask you one last question. what are you going to say to your classmates when you graduate as valedictorian? what is your advice or words to them? >> i would tell them to keep moving forward. don't give up in life no matter how hard it get. keep pushing. keep god first so you can be successful. >> i just want to tell you how much i am proud of you. how many other people are rooting for you as well. tough circumstances. you have done a great job. keep that network around you and keep pushing and being a great mom and a great student. we're very very proud of you. that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. we'll see you next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. right now it's time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt" but richard lui is filling in. >> so inspiring. what a great interview. good to see you. he did what no horse could do in 37 years. how much money is american pharoah worth now? we're counting up the dollars he could make his owner. back to school. three democratic presidential candidates court the teacher vote. hear who received the highest marks and a first look at britain's prince george and princess charlotte. you see them there together. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. love loud, live loud polident. ♪ ♪ fresher dentures... ...for those breathless moments. hug loud, live loud, polident. ♪ ♪ audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. you could sit at your computer and read all about zero-turn mowers. click. scroll. tweet. or you could just sit on a john deere z435 eztrak and feel its power. you'll know it'll get the job done fast. when it's time to pick a mower you've got to get on one. visit your local john deere dealer for a test drive today. sign up to take your turn on a z435 and save 100 dollars on your purchase. nothing runs like a deere. can a business have a mind? 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they're now on the run. a massive manhunt is underway near the canadian border. how did they do it? details coming up. and beau biden and what it says about the unusual bond between obama and joe biden. we begin this hour with history being made. the end of 37 long years of frustration and heartbreak. that was how long it had been since a horse had won the triple crown until around 6:45 last night. >> one eighth of a mile to go. american pharoah has got a two length lead. the 16 pole and here it is. the 37 year wait is over. american pharoah is finally the one! american pharoah has won the triple crown! >> listen to the roar of that crowd. american pharoah becomes just the 12th horse in history to capture all three crown jewels of horse racing. this was a moment of trial and years of near misses 1997 1998 2002 arrived with a chance to claim the triple crown only for his horse to lose. but now he has a place in history. this was the third time the jockey had ridden a horse with a chance to win the triple crown and now finally he has broken through. at 43 he becomes the oldest jockey to win the triple crown. this was a special moment last night a streak that many were starting to believe might never end. affirmed won back in 1978. after that nothing. american pharoah was in control of this race yesterday from start to finish. he never trailed. his time was the second fastest ever. and now he will live in sports immortality. the 12th triple crown champion of all kind. joining me to talk about it long time racing announcer. of course that famous call you heard down the stretch they come, that was dave johnson. so excited to have him here with us. let me start with this. it's a good trip a bad trip. all of the horses that have fallen short in the belmont. is it luck that american pharoah was able to win or is he different and that much better than all of the other horses? >> oh he is much better. the key to it is bob. a terrific guy but a sensational trainer who knows how to keep his horses together through this gruelling five weeks and bob is the key to this. of course it's the horse who did it. finally. >> and you say bob got it done. so you called? >> we were playing this clip yesterday in 1998. he came so close to winning the triple crown that year. it's incredible heartbreak for him. we say he had been there three times before and now all of these years later he breaks through. but to put it all together. i think it's the toughest thing in the world of sports to win the triple crown. american pharoah is simply sensational. >> what is it? when you look at american pharoah, if you're looking at it to analyze it as a horse what makes it so special? >> first he has the breeding. great conformation beautiful stride and trained to perfection. he had some hiccups along the way. he was the 2-year-old champion last year but he did not go to the breeders cup. bob was able to get him back and get him ready for the gruelling three different weeks and distances. and shipping from one track to the other, it's why the triple crown has gone vacant for 37 years. it's a tough road. >> what happens now? we look in horse racing the horses are retired after they have a little success. they go into the siring business. is that what we can expect. is american pharoah going to be out there racing more? >> the owners have said they want to continue racing him through this year. hopefully he might show up at haskill. and i guess possibly the breeder's cup in the fall. let's keep our fingers crossed. i know americans want to see the triple crown not in a stud barn but on the racetrack. >> 37 years was the gap between between yesterday's triple crown victory and the last one before that. there there had been a 25 gap. there was a period in the 70s. secretariat, affirmed we had i think three in five years. >> i don't know it's going be three in the next decade. i'm keeping my fingers clossed. i didn't think i would ever see another triple crown. i called secretariat. but here we are. history made yesterday at big sandy. >> i got to ask you as somebody who grew up listening to all of your calls, nothing more exciting. >> larry does a great job. i was on my couch watching it at home. i did give it a down the stretch they come but it was just for myself. >> i wish i could have heard that one. >> dave johnson, thank you so much for joining us. >> let's turn to the powerful speech that president obama gave yet with the president speaking of a deep personal bond that he's come to share with biden. the funleral for beau biden in delaware showing how the bond has grown and strengthened over time. >> he made you want to be a better person. isn't that finally the measure of a man? the way he lives, how he treats others. no matter what life may throw at him. we do not know how long we got here. we don't know when fate will intervene. we cannot discern god's plan. what we do know is that with every minute that we've got, we have got live our lives in a way that takes nothing for granted. we can love deeply. we can help people who need help. we can teach our children what matters and pass on empathy and compassion and selflessness. we can teach them to have broad shoulders. >> one of the few times you have seen barack obama visibly struggle to maintain his come poe sure. aides say he wrote those comments himself. the words he chose, the emotion which he expressed the road since obama picked biden to join since 2008. by announcing his own personal support for it on meet the press. after biden did that several top obama advisors wanted them to come down hard on biden but obama reportedly refused that and yesterday obama went to far as to call himself an honorary member of the biden family. >> we have become part of the biden clan. we're honorary members now. and the biden family rule applies. we're always here for you. we always will be. my word as a biden. >> let's welcome this morning's panel. >> and robert george the local one. we're sitting here watching this live yesterday. and we talked about it on the air. and yesterday as i think about it it still strikes me i'm looking back and i can't think of a parallel of a situation that could have happened in the past where a president would express that kind of bond with the president. these are shotgun, arranged marriages. they are dysfunctional sometimes. >> you can tell that they appreciate and respect each other. when a tragedy like this happens you look back at joe biden's life your heartbreaks for the man. no one should have to bury one child, much less two. this is who he wanted to deliver this and thank you. to call himself an honorary member of the biden clan this is just like family. especially for someone like president obama who didn't have much of a family structure growing up. biden has always put faply first. i think that president obama sees that in him and that's something that he missed clearly growing up in his childhood and the bidens have welcomed him into that plan. >> it felt like the president was taking a step back and reflecting on the last ten years of his life and his journey. well you look back and mentioned lbj and jfk but reagan and bush were never close. clinton and gore got strained at the end. bush cheney hit the rocks. it's an awkward constitutional position that does not lend itself to a strong bond. we hate to politically analyze at the moment of tragedy. i'm sure this is how obama would want people to see how close their relationship is? is this the way to have a good vice presidential relationship? someone who is not overly ambitious? someone who has good ties to congress who can fill in the weaknesses? it's sad that we are seeing a window to our relationship. does it give some evidence of how this should be done? >> it's interesting. the ambition from everything i could tell has been there. he has run for president before. he saw, look i'm the two term vice president. in theory i would like to have a shot at this. he got blocked out like hillary clinton and everybody else on the democratic side. >> that's exactly right. it is going to be interesting to see over the next few weeks as to whether this tragedy is going to cause him to either make a decision to officially decide not to run or actually to go into it. i have to agree with what jessica was saying. it's the fact that the two of these men have problematic family situations that the president of course growing up without a father. joe biden having to deal with the tragedy. it caused them to compliment each other. getting ahead on the gay marriage issue. america is at a point where we're talking about relationships and families and whether, you know gays should be allowed to have marriage and full families. and it's kind of interesting that these two men who both defined by very different family experiences have actually bonded in both personal and political ways. >> and of course the other thing here, beau biden who is the former attorney general of delaware, who was going to be running for governor he had so much potential in his own right. >> he was the heavy favorite to win attorney general. i remember in 2010 everybody was shocked that he didn't run fr his father's senate seat but he seems to want to make his own path. he was still in the military. he just had that innate ability. you think back to introducing his father at the conventions and stuff, too. i think that was another thing. like, beau and obama are of the same political generation. you can feel fuel that bond. they are close in age. to have someone with such promise just ripped away so suddenly. >> no one should have to go through that. it's one of the ways of going hog wild. the first annual roast and ride. but first a dramatic and developing story in upstate new york. two convicted murderers on the run after escaping from a maximum security prison. how they were able to fool the guards right after this. we all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating industry-leading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed. it could help save tens of thousands of lives every year. and that would be something worth shouting about. cvs health, because health is everything. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? 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(vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. >> scott walker pulling away from the pack both rit rally and figuratively yesterday. walker was the only presidential candidate out of seven to attend. walker wearing a t-shirt and jeans spoke about joni ernst. >> i love a senator who knows how to kas rate a pig, ride a hog and cut the pork from washington d.c. wouldn't it be nice to get an ally in the white house to help get the job done? >> as the new york time notes, walk ehren joys a decisive lead in iowa. >> scott walker's favoritability rating is 66%. walker at the front of the pack on saturday but will he be able to sustain a lead through the caucus s caucuses nbc affiliate in des moines. we have seen the early follower. slightly ahead of the rest of the field. >> i think 2012 probably showed us that. he opened up a lot about himself and -- >> now we know that they are not going. it's significant for mike huckabee because of his success in the 2008 cycle. now anyone is just waiting and waiting and waiting. now you're really down to scott walker. if he decides not to do this and he was non-committal again about this if he doesn't decide to do this people are left wondering what's left of this straw poll. but, you brought in different people to the mix there. some of those motorcycle enthusiasts are not necessarily the ones who show up at a pizza ranch. you have perhaps a new audience and you have seven candidates or six officials, you had those seven people before 1500 iowans. and these are the types of events now that get magnified. >> i'm trying to remember the last presidential candidate i saw. a real matinee from 1996. she interviewed scott walker and one of the subjects was hillary clinton went after scott walker by name they passed these restrictions in their state. let me play what scott walker said. >> hillary clinton came out and supported universal registration of voting. would you support? >> i think that should be set at the state level. those are editions we have a photo id requirement. that's a good example. shows that she's firmly out of touch with mainstream americans. >> it was interesting to me that he went right to the photo id requirement. that was the one thing that hillary was not really speaking about. if you look at the polling of photo id for voting 77% support it and 20 oppose it. >> i understand why hillary clinton would want to do this. she is going to have to work on the base in a way that -- particularly with african-americans. it works within the democratic party. >> in terms of playing this out, if it's hillary clinton versus scott walker she called that if she's talking about these issues against them and she's hitting them. and they come back with all i'm say something you should have an idea if you want to vote. >> they played voting issues harder. it completely backfired. said get over this issue. let's get in the game on early voting and stop trying to suppress. all the candidates are not listening. they need to add to the republican base. and the problem is that dave talked about the political magazine piece earlier this week. just pandering to it. >> let me bring you back in on this. it was joni ernst. is she planning to endorse the race? who would be an unlikely joni joni ernst pick. >> she has said repeatedly that she will not endorse. they have both said repeatedly that they have no plans to endorse. it doesn't stop all of these candidates from trying to get them to change their mind. ernst has said she will not pick a favorite pubically. >> still ahead, the political ad that just made history not for what it said but where it is is placed. is there room for one more? we will talk to a former governor who is hoping he might be able to make some room. that is next. next. ♪♪ expected wait time: 55 minutes. your call is important to us. thank you for your patience. waiter! vo: in the nation, we know how it feels when you aren't treated like a priority. we do things differently. we'll take care of it. vo: we put members first... join the nation. thank you. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ you've heard of a "win-win," right? what about a "win-win-win"? pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo by motorola. water-repellent. up to 48-hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. that's your first "win." plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network. there's your next "win." now for final "win." get $250 when you trade in any smartphone. and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. female announcer: want your best rest ever? then don't miss sleep train's best rest event. you'll find sleep train's very best mattresses at the guaranteed lowest price. plus, pay no interest for three years on beautyrest black, stearns & foster serta icomfort even tempur-pedic. and rest even better with sleep train's risk-free 100-day money back guarantee. get your best rest ever from sleep train. ...guaranteed! ♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ ♪ i've been drivin' a lincoln since long before anybody paid me to drive one. ♪ i didn't do it to be cool. i didn't do it to make a statement. i just liked it. ♪ lease an mkc for $329 a month plus competitive owners and lessees get $500 bonus cash, only at your lincoln dealer. the 2016 election may be more than a year away the republican candidates are facing a potential do or die moment just two months from now. that's when the first of a limited number of debates will take place and the rules are simple. if you're not in the top ten in average at the national polls you won't be on the debate stage. that ten candidate limit has created what the "new york times" describes as a hunger games type feel. especially true for one of the candidates who is still on the maybe list. jim gilmore. he ended his campaign after struggling to raise money. now gilmore is exploreing a 2016 campaign. he calls the response from republicans very encouraging. thank you for taking a few minutes. let me start with the clock you're up against. if you want to get in this race and be on that debate stage in august, you have got make a move. >> in order to meet with the people of new hampshire. i think i'm the only possible candidate who has been to every county in new hampshire. i think we all focus on the horse race. but, you know i'm just not a person who is willing to have my life or the life of the united states defined by the broadcasters or by the national party. not just simply worry about the belmont stakes on saturday and presidential debate on sunday. this is not a horse race but about the quality of life for people in the united states. >> the debate is an ultimate forum for getting your views out there to the maximum possible audience. we have seen how crucial these can be. from ten to 40 and winning it on the strength of those debates. i can't think of anyone who seems to move more debaters. how can you run? >> you can run whether you're on the debate stage or not. i was on that stage three times and i should be on the stage again this year. and you're right. that's what gives exposure and the ideas that need to come forward. we have to adrez what is important to the country and not to the show biz that people are getting more and more frustrated with i believe. we need to work on getting more americans working for higher wages and address the energy crisis. which of these is best able to address these issues. >> what is the jim gilmore pitch, then? you did try running before. it didn't go so well. what is it that jim is offering republicans across the country that none of these others are? >> a calmness and experience. i have been around. i have been the governor of a major state. i have been around foreign policy my whole life. i have had a degree on foreign policy. i was the governor during the 911 attack. i understand the national security and foreign policy direction in which we must go. that means that we have to have an armed diplomacy. sit is a serious danger in this country and it needs to be addressed. right now our enemies don't fear us our friends don't trust us and you have to have the ability to shape things with an active foreign policy. itd's not just foreign policy strong. this rumor that you're hearing about the economy is not true. we're seeing the decline right now. many are unemployed or underemployed. we need tax reform for more jobs that will create better wages and that's what we have to have in this country. and nobody is talking about these issues which is why i'm re-considering getting back in the race. i'm going to look at new hampshire and see how people feel. >> do you have a date in your mind when you will have a decision by? >> no i don't think that i have to have a date. i think i have to listen to the people of new hampshire. and consider this all very, very carefully. all of this all of the grand standing that is going on on the campaign trail and in the halls of congress where there's serious. experience calmness the ability to deal with these issues in a possible way is what i'm hearing the american people want. they're tired of this baa loney. >> all right. former virginia governor we look forward to your decision looking at a run for president. thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you, steve. >> still ahead, the update on the condition of the red sox fan who was seriously injured when a broken bat hit her friday night. president obama with his peers. why he's looking forward to more than good sausages and beer. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. they make little hearts happy and big hearts happy too because as part of a heart healthy diet, those delicious oats in cheerios can help naturally lower cholesterol. how can something so little... help you do something so big. how much protein does your dog food have? 18%? 20? introducing nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna and 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. ortho home defense gives you year long control of all these household bugs - roaches, ants, and spiders. spectracide gives you year long control... of just roaches. their label says so. got more than roaches moving in? get home defense. the label tells the story. some weed killers are overzealous. they even destroy your lawn. ortho weed b gon kills weeds... not lawns. our label says it. your grass proves it. get ortho weed b gon. the label tells the story. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. >> president obama is in germany. he flew overnight arriving in mu nick early this morning. the meet willing cover a range of issues in helping combat isis to aggression against ukraine. chris is in austria that is just across the border. she joins us right now. what is the president hoping to get out of this trip? >> well he already got some beer. so a beer and burst, which is a tradition in these parts early this morning already. but look this is obviously spectacular setting for what is serious business you talked about the fight against oois. they will be talking about the greek debt crisis and particularly the first meeting this morning was a one-on-one with the most powerful woman in the world. between the most powerful woman in the world which has been a little bit chilling given the spying scandal. she had to call obama. he said the chief of staff to meet with counter part in germany to try to smooth over the waters. they are both very pragmatic leaders who look at what's on the table. the president talked a little about that early this morning. >> part of what gives me hope is the example of germany. this marks 70 years since the end of world war ii and decades of a great nato alliance. it marks 25 years since the unification of germany that inspired the world. the fact that all of us are here together today, is proof that conflicts can end and great progress is possible. >> the face to face is considered to be there, steve. >> still ahead, decision 2015. two block buster decisions that could come from the supreme court right now. ♪ it's not home. but with every well considered detail . . . it becomes one step closer. making a fist something we do to show resolve. to defend ourselves. to declare victory. so cvs health provides expert support and vital medicines. at our infusion centers or in patients homes. we help them fight the good fight. cvs health, because health is everything. benny's the oldest dog in the shelter. he needed help all day so i adopted him. when my back pain flared up, i thought i'd have to give him away. i tried tylenol but it was 6 pills a day. with aleve it's just 2 pills, all day. now i'm back! aleve. all day strong. all right. there is a lot going on in the world this morning. let's take this from new england cape cable news. her name is tonya carpenter. she was at the red sox game on friday night. there's a broken bat that went flying straight into the stands. at the time she suffered life threatening injuries. a statement said we wish her a speedy recovery now being told she is expected to survive. it's a freakish accident. look at baseball stadiums now and say how can we prevent this from happening. >> upnless its's putting up nets. >> i was hit by a foul ball in college. >> in the head? >> no no. just the arm. >> did you see it coming? >> no i was turned around talking to somebody but it was terrifying. >> something similar happened several years ago. i think to keep a woman's mother at a game. you know this is you know, it's part of it. >> those things let's see what happens. >> when the milk is not adequately foamed it ends up looking like a latte. >> i was a baarista during high school. it was very hard to make. i think maybe by the end of the summer i had mastered it. >> what is a cap chee knee? >> it has to be like two-thirds of the foam. it's like all foam. the latte has a smaller amount of foam. so essentially it is more foam. >> it's coffee with foam? i don't drink coffee. >> the steamed milk is foamed. it's much harder to make. it is. >> a beer needs a good head. >> you pour the beer so it doesn't have a lot of foam in it. i'm glad they're taking it off. that's a rip off. you're paying for foam. wow. and he nears a 2016 bid, bobby jindal expected to announce in new orleans on june 24. his approval rating in louisiana has fallen to 32%. bobby jinda will isl is fighting with the business community. he was one of the speakers he's in danger of not making that cut. right now in the top ten. >> they feel that regardless of everything, they could actually push through this and actually make it. bobby jindal seems to be competing with chris christie is competing with who is least popular in his home state before announcing for president. jindal was an up and coming guy. i just don't see it. >> you know what it was? the response to the state of the union. did rick perry ever recover? did bobby jindal ever recover? >> marco rubio recovered. >> he was thirsty. another full hour of news and politics ahead. stay with us. l never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ yeah! yeah. so, that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled. and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great. oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive. mmmmmm yoplait! good news everybody! there is now 25% less sugar in yoplait original. say "adieu" to that sugar. because it still tastes good! yoplait! this allergy season, will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? 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(vo) subaru has the highest resale value of any brand... ...according to kelley blue book ...and mitch. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. >> thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. it turns out that jeb bush is embarking on a trip to his own. new details in the ties that bind the biden family to president obama in just a couple of minutes. and the secret behind bernie sanders' surge among some democrats. we begin this hour with jeb bush getting out his passport for a big trip abroad ahead of his expected announcement a week from tomorrow. the trip is to begin this tuesday with a speech in berlin. foreign policy promising to be one of the central ten nates. not only pitting the field against hillary clinton but there are also deep shades of. what is jeb hoping to accomplish? what does he need to do it? he joins us from washington now. sort of a right of passage. we have seen these things in a couple of cases go pretty poorly. mitt romney in 2012 did not have a successful trip oversaes. chris christie got in trouble a few months ago. what does jeb bush have to worry about? >> the biggest is dealing with the press, steve. you know that is what ended up tripping up mitt romney. it's what tripped up chris christie and scott walker got in a bit of hot water, too. but what is fascinating about these overseas trips is they are coming when these people are not yet announced presidential candidates. chris christie he went abroad. he is not a candidate. jeb bush does not announce until june 15. the mitt romney example and one that barack obama went is when you become your party's general election nominee, then you go overseas to burnish your foreign policy credentials to look tough and strong to look like you're capable of playing the part of president of the united states. but now people are doing it before they even become an official candidate. >> when you say the name jeb bush and foreign policy that is a particular challenge for jeb bush to deal with because of the legacy of his brother. we already saw a little while back just dealing with the relitigating and iraq war, how much difficulty jeb bush had with that. as he sets out to articulate a world view? does he find ways to distinguish himself from his brother? is there a way for him to do that? >> we really haven't seen on foreign policy him being able to distinguish himself between his brother. many of them are folks who ended up advising his brother or father when they were in the oval office. he is doing this a little on safe ground. going places like poland and estonia and eastern europe. that has been a pretty safe haven for republicans including george w. bush. it's usually when republicans go to western europe it's a little more difficult. i'm not surprised that we're seeing jeb bush go to a place like poland. >> interesting. there's red state and blue state. >> exactly. >> let's bring the panel in for this discussion, too. at the "new york post," let's talk about this question of jeb bush in the distance he does or doesn't need to put in there with his brother on foreign policy. on the one hand it's the obvious liability. on the other hand, the republican party especially in the wake of all of the isis beheadings has become a lot more hawkish and gone back to interventionism. >> becoming a foreign policy election. that's why you see so many candidates as mark said are trying to go abroad to burnish foreign policy kree dentials. really talk up those credentials, too. there is still the hesitancy that you don't want to get stuck in another quack myers in a way to sort of do this and how to approach isis and how to deal with that? and so someone would be willing to take it in a bad way. you hear senators talk up a lot like what marco rubio has, too. he needs this to burnish the kree dent credentials. >> he is getting pressured. rubio has done that in part by taking a hawkish posture. if he is meeting with foreign leaders and not embarrassing himself, george b. bush forgot foreign leaders' names. he never developed a rapport as a comfortable figure on the world stage. he was a lone ranger. if jeb in his body language is showing i'm a different kind of bush he obviously can handle the iraq question well. >> an announcement when he comes back, a week out. think back six months ago to the promise of the shock and awe that we heard from the bush campaign. they will raise a ton of money. we will make this big statement. >> when he went in with trying to grab the republican raiser. he was able to bully mitt romney. he ended up thinking he might give this. making this campaign manager. after that mitt romney decided not to run. what was so striking was that marco rubio decided not to get chased out of that contest at all. saying you know what? i thought jeb was going to be able to suck the oxygen out of the room. i'm not going to get in. and one of the reasons that the republican field is so big that is jeb has not been able to convince enough republicans that he's going to be the dominant person in this race. i think in one way to look at it back six months ago it looked like jeb was your front runner or a co--front runner. right now he's on the verge of trying to hold on to any front runner status. >> that is amazing when you think back to expectations. thanks for taking a few minutes this morning. i want to turn now to the deeply moving and emotional funeral service held yesterday for beau biden son of the vice president and former attorney general of delaware. the biden family giving him an incredibly personal good-bye in the most public setting imaginable. we learned that beau's youngest sister traveled with him to chemo therapy appointments every other friday. we witnessed joe biden making sure that beau's youngest son was okay. you heard how they told your father, we think we should marry jill. >> mom, you mended all of our hearts once. you made the three of us whole. you gave us ashley, the greatest gift imaginable. you gave beau his strength his steadiness, and you gave him a love that only a mother could give. you loved him with all of your heart. and we all know there was no one in the world you were more proud of. you adored beau. i loved watching that. and he adored you. and it's your strength, your steadiness that holds this family together. and i know that you will make us whole again. >> and hunter biden also sharing the very first thing he can remember. >> the first memory i have is of lying in a hospital bed next to my brother. i was almost three years old. i remember my brother, who was one year and one day older than me holding my hand staring into my eyes saying i love you i love you. i love you. i love you. over and over and over again. and then in the 42 years since he never stopped holding my hand. he never stopped telling me just how much he loves me. >> it was a moving service yesterday. obviously, a three-hour service. one of the things that occurred to me while watching all of that, and watching this for the past week joe biden is vice president and kind of in some ways become a punch line, the onion has made him a recurring joke, but i think people were reminded this week that there's a side of joe biden that people have a deep respect for and i think this week people were sort of forced to confront that and realize that. maybe something they hadn't thought about as much. >> that's definite tli case absolutely. i was also struck by how much hunter biden sounds so much like his father. i was reminded about a year ago when of all people when eric cantor left office so upset in a primary and somehow the conversation got around as to who you can work with in washington and he said look i don't agree politically with joe biden, but he's a straight shooter. he's somebody who can bring people into the room and get the necessary work of washington done. and i mean given how cantor had been a leader in the house and a vocal critic of this administration, that was pretty impressive praise. that's the type of biden that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle know. >> and at yesterday's funeral was mitch mcconnel. he's the one when mitch had been at an impasse, it's joe biden. >> when the white house wanted something done you send joe biden. his heart still seems to be with the senate. you know, he can work with republicans. you like the man. and another point what hunter biden talked about, i think this is the point where i lost it. joe jill biden to walk into a situation, they don't think of her as their stepmother. it was a moving article about how they came about. i was, it's just really touching and how they really it's a blended family but it is isn't in a way. she became their mother and how much they loved her and how much she is this glue and i think you see that in the white house. she has made military family such an emphasis and that is largely because of beau biden and his service, too. >> i was struck by how composed both of the children were and across the aisle, people are so sad about this. we talked about how we don't like dynasties. we don't want a bush versus clinton but we do like political families. we honor children who go into public service. we are deeply sad that beau was not able to fulfill his promise. it is honorable to see kids not cash out. i hope that's one take away from the moving service. >> we will turn back to politics. what are the secrets behind bernie sanders early success at least with some voters. we will explain that in next how the supreme court will decide when it comes to two of the nation's biggest hot button issues. stay with us. ano music) ♪ fresher dentures, for the best first impression. love loud, live loud polident. ♪ ♪ fresher dentures... ...for those breathless moments. hug loud, live loud, polident. ♪ ♪ ♪ one, two, three o'clock. four o'clock pop. ♪ five, six, seven o'clock. eight o'clock pop. ♪ ♪ nine, ten eleven o'clock ♪ ♪ twelve o'clock pop 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that it's june the justices could hand down the decision on the two biggest block buster cases of the year. the president's sweeping health care law is ruled constitutional. now the subsidyies that help millions of americans pay for health insurance they didn't have before. the law was written in a way that allows those grants. more than 6 million people in 34 states could lose this assistance if the court rules that subsidies are not valid. when it comes to same sex marriage, the decision is pretty straightforward straightforward. is the right guaranteed to marry. the u.s. will become. >> we're about to have the supreme court decision that most people predict will legalize same sex marriage across the country. >> this court has let that happen. that might be the biggest evidence that the court is moving in the direction of saying it is a constitutional right nation-wide. >> i expect the supreme court to use the 14th amendment to thend issue. >> is there anyway that conventional wisdom could be wrong? dalhia, thanks for joining me. every piece of commentary i have heard is that it is all building to this moment when the supreme court will say gay marriage should be legal in all 50 states. it's going happen. is there anyway that conventional wisdom you see could be wrong? >> i have to tell you having sat in the chamber for oral argument, it really felt like the conventional wisdom you're describing is pretty accurate. don't forget the swing vote on this case has been the author of the three seminal gay rights cases and there was a moment when he was arguing with someone defending the ban where he kept saying this is about dignity and for kennedy, dignity is such a watch word. it's clear he really felt for these families for their children. and so yes i think it's a huge step. just watching his contact and argument, it's hard to imagine he's not going to vote with the four liberals. >> now to the other big case before the court. the future of obama care, this one shaping up to be much more of a nail biter. it hinges on whether it is written in a way that allows subsidies. some members of congress are working on a legislative fix to that part of the law in anticipation of potentially losing before the court. a way to get the health exchanges up and running as soon as possible. chris christie urged to pass such a fix. so this one is trying to understand the argument here. it's a very technical case that is being made here and yet it's made its way all the way to the supreme court. is there a scenario where the court guts this key part of obama care? >> is there a scenario? sure. remember, we have been talking about anthony kennedy as a swing vote. remember he defected probably at the last minute and voted with the liberals to uphold obama care. the question is this time when the stakes are really high you have between six and eight million people poised to lose their subsidies. debt spirals. the imply occasions are so huge. this is really having a ripple effect on the 2016 they have to choose between creating exchanges, propping up obama care or watching citizens lose health care. so the really consequences here the downside are so high and for the chief justice who really doesn't think exclusively in partisan terms he thinks about the prestige of the court. he thinks about how people look at the court to have a 5-4 decision gutting obama care going into election throwing the political right into complete chaos might be too much. so who knows. this is a narrow statutory case. but the ripple effects are huge. i don't think we know yet what this is goimpk to do in the coming months. >> let me bring the panel in on that. if the court, the narrow case. if it were to rule against obama care, against the administration on this one, as we say, the law could be destroyed by that or congress could pass a simple fix and that would change it. congress controlled by republicans if the court acts health insurance for these millions of americans is in jeopardy but obama care is in jeopardy. how will republicans in congress react to that? >> congress you probably don't have to expect too much from. i mean there will be pressure on them to deal with the chaos if it hand. i would think more likely the pressure would be put on the states. they made a petty decision to say i hate obama care. i'm not going to do anything for it. i am letting the federal government take control of the exchanges which is ridiculous. there will be a huge amount of pressure to say the ball is in your court. >> do you think so? the argument was that the states would never turn down this medicare money. these red states have held out. >> not all of them. >> you're right that there is pressure at the state level. congress, the then democratic congress basically put and created this mess because the lapg waj was not clear on how these exchanges would be set up. so now the ball is now in the republican congress. i think they will figure out some kind of narrow way to kind of keep the system as it is for now. if it does come if the supreme court does rule against the current language. they will figure out some kind of narrow way. they obviously have never been on board with obama care because it was a poorly drafted law. >> i'm curious, it was a poorly drafted law. robert george says that thousands of pages that we know of that a lot of people. . >> i think that it used to be the case. it would take decades. and this one gets up through the courts. it goes to how politicized the federal bench is. we know if nothing else we know that courts are supposed to interpret statutes chen it i think you really have to look at it as a testament to what has happened to the bench. >> thank you for joining us this morning. a lot of supreme court moves coming in the next few days. still ahead, the man who takes us inside the supreme court to places where the cameras can't go. next the secret behind the surge of bernie sanders. the surge as we 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[ applause ] >> that was hillary clinton thursday on the issue of voting rights with a pitch aimed right at the obama coalition. a coalition that depends on strength with demographically growing groups of non--white voters. we think of this as a general election strategy and it is. this is a fascinating role reversal for her when she was cast as a -- this time around her deepest support is coming from non--white voters who stopped hillary clinton in 2008. non-wits are not turning on hillary at all. showing clinton leading sanders by 42 points among white democrats. among non-white nas explodes to 67 points. >> it is almost triple that number when it comes to white democrats. it's a fascinating role reversal. all of the states late in the season. we're hearing over and over that hillary clinton is the champion of white working class voters and now it's non-white voters, the voters who were not with her in 2008. how did that happen? you saw stories about how sanders is doing very well. he is from vermont. makes sense. it is not a diverse state either. he got criticized in his announcement speech because he did not talk about criminal justice and immigration. i think it goes to the fact that his support base up to now has been white voters versus hillary clinton campaigned for a long time on these issues of voting rights and immigration and things likely to appeal more to minorities. they start from different places. sanders could grow their support and get it more diverse. i think we may be over emphasizing sanders because the campaign is in michigan or ohio. she was running against barack obama last time. >> i think it points to something bigger historically. i could think back and every campaign there seems to be the hot insurgent candidate who emerges. they do well in the wealthy suburbs around the country. they have failed to bring in historically they failed to bring in black, latino and non--white voters and barack obama did an amazing thing where he united non-white voters with that traditional base. >> exactly. obama was, i remember i wrote early in 2007 that there was a worry among democrats that obama was doing very well among the bill bradley or howard dean voters. like you said get the elite democrats who are white and also get african-americans and minorities as well. minorities are a growing part of the country and a growing part of the democratic coalition. sanders or o'mally turns into the best bill bradley. even if they do very well even if you have the strongest candidate possible. we will have states where south carolina alabama, mississippi, these states are, have delicates in the primary. and i think the primary is overlapping. i think hillary clinton has done a lot of focus on this issues. she has given five two of them have been on issues that i would say really target. there is one on voting and one on criminal justice. you have seen they are focused on issues. but really speak to that coalition and will make it hard for sanders or o'mally to cut in. >> i remember in 2008 how the numbers turned hillary from doing so well. the minute obama won iowa. that's how barack obama won that big victory. really interesting story. thanks for joining us this morning. >> of course. still ahead we will talk to the man who serves as our eyes inside the supreme court. next we will go live to dennis hastard's hometown to see how folks are reacting to the latest allegations against the former house speaker. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? 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second or third in line for the presidency right? and we are now finding out that that would have been an embarrassment for our entire country. >> now with these new revelations people here are starting to think twice about his innocence. >> thank you for that report. still ahead the new photos of prince george and his baby sister charlotte, that had the internet oooing and ahing this morning. but first the man on the front lines of supreme court history. stay with us. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites. if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before. innovation and you. philips sonicare. mmm yoplait! it's snack time! oh, look! yoplait original now has 25% less sugar. it tastes good! yoplait! ♪ it's not home. but with every well considered detail . . . it becomes one step closer. unbelievable! toenail fungus? 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>> it's taken me some time to learn that to learn to stop and watch what's going on and then draw. the minute you look down at your pad you're missing a lot. so really you're working from memory. >> how many in a given session, say you were covering the boston marathon bomber trial, how many of these sketches are you drawing on an average day in court? >> on average, probably about ten sketches. some things don't get finished but i would say ten, as many as 13 as few as six. >> what is it that you're looking for? are there certain requirements that the court has for the kinds of pictures they want to give you? are you deciding on the spot i'm going to draw this and that? >> sometimes i'm talking to pete williams or to a producer and i kind of know what they're looking for but there are certain standard things you need. you need the wide shot the scene setter and that's always time consuming. after that it's a question of paying attention and you know trying to follow the testimony. >> you're covering the boston bomber conference. there was a trial where there was no question that the guy was guilty of something truly horrible. and you're charged with sitting there and giving a fair and artistic rendering of him. does it ever make it tough to draw somebody? >> i think i'm trying to capture him as best i can. during the tsarnaev trial it was very difficult. the only way to get a front view of him was to go in the overflow room and look at the video. but as far as the emotion of the trial, that can make it very difficult when you have a witness who has lost a child and their testimony is just so wrenching it's very hard to see the paper that you're drawing. the tears well up exit's difficult. >> actually we had planned last week to have you in studio with us. there were breaking news. you were up here. people at home couldn't right off stage and decided to stake around and do a sketch of "up." this was last week on "up." you can see maine there. there's eleanor clift on the left. a couple of guests. there's the stage manager and everybody getting their 15 minutes of fame. it's a great sketch. we love looking at that. thank you very much for doing it and thank you, art lien for being here. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> all right. up next, our first peckictures of the royal baby princess charlotte and her brother prince george. they are adorable. you will want to see them. stay with us. there we go. ♪ lease an mkz for $289 a month, plus competitive owners and lessees get $500 bonus cash, only at your lincoln dealer. ♪ (music plays throughout) ♪ the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. after all, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned... every day... from the smallest detail to the boldest leap. healthier means using wellness to keep away illness... knowing a prescription is way more than the pills... and believing that a single life can be made better by millions of others. ♪ ♪ healthier takes somebody who can power modern health care... by connecting every single part of it. realizing cold hard data can inspire warmth and compassion... and that when technology meets expertise... everything is possible. for as long as the world keeps on searching for healthier... we're here to make healthier happen. optum. healthier is here. female announcer: want your best rest ever? then don't miss sleep train's best rest event. you'll find sleep train's very best mattresses at the guaranteed lowest price. plus, pay no interest for three years on beautyrest black, stearns & foster serta icomfort even tempur-pedic. and rest even better with sleep train's risk-free 100-day money back guarantee. get your best rest ever from sleep train. ...guaranteed! ♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ there is a lot going on this morning. let's get caught up with the headlines making news with the panel. let's go to the guardian across the pond. first official photographs of princess charlotte published by the royal family. princess charlotte being held in the arps of older brother prince george. these photos were with taken by their mother the duchess of cambridge known as kate. charlotte will be baptized sunday july 5. >> she's adorable. i'm a sucker for anything royal. >> i thought the "vanity fair" shoot and call me charlie was too much. they are going too far there p.m. life of the royal baby. let's go to the new york times, a first for snapchat. the american action network, an outside group associated with the house republican leadership is have taken -- paid for a political ad put up an ad on snapchat. it was featured in a snapchat story for joni ernst's "roast and ride vent." will let's look. >> stand up for american jobs bile calling congress and urging them to pass tpa because if we don't lead, china will. >> now i see. it's an ad with the side of the screens chopped off because it's an iphone. >> i don't understand snapchat. >> we were hearing it was the dirty thing teenagers used to send stuff. >> i did my first sthapchat sthapchat newscast. npr has one. you can follow us @npr news. >> i will figurer it out. it's obviously becoming important to capture moments. >> it doesn't seem to be the right ad to send to the snapchat audience. on tpa? it has a weird reference. >> there is exerer peer mentation going on. if er you are on snapchat you will see the ad. you can't skip it. on broadcast television you're spending money for viewers who aren't going to watch the ad. >> i'm still getting used to meerkat. i was patting myself on the shoulder for adapting to that. finally, the washington post. what to say, what not to say on a first date according to science. a new study says both men and women are more likely to spark a connection if a woman uses words like i, me myself. men are more attracted to men who sound confident. they were less attracted to kind of, sort of and maybe. make declarative statements in the first person. you will be happily married with baby pictures like the royal family. steve's dating advice for the day. >> i kind of agree with that. >> thanks to the panel this morning. robert george bill share, jessica taylor. up next melissa maria sharapova.sharapova sharapova -- harris-perry. we'll see you next week. have a great week. can you pick me up at 6:30? 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her role in the naacp, another odd turn in the story of rachel dozel. all in starts right now. all in starts right now. good evening from new york. after months dancing around his ambitions and avoiding certain rules jeb bush becoming the 11th republican candidate to announce he is running for president addressing a fired up crowd. bush touted economic record as governor of florida way back in the years before the housing bubble popped. >> i know we can fix this because i have done it. we made florida number one in job creation and inb one in small business creation, 1.3 million new jobs. 4.4% growth. higher family income, eight balanced budgets and tax cuts eight years in a row. >> the speech included plenty of conservative red meat calculated to please the base. >> when a school is just another dead end every parent should have the right to send their child to a better school, public, private or charter. if i am president we will take the power of choice away from unions and give it back to parents. secretary clinton insists that when the progressive agenda encounters religious beliefs to the contrary those beliefs, quote, have to be changed. with their phone it in foreign policy, the obama/clinton/kerry team is leading a legacy of crisis, violence unopposed, enemies unnamed, friends undefended and alliances unraveling. >> bush tried to ease concerns that he feels entitled to the white house by virtue of his last name. >> i know there are a lot of good people running for president, quite a few, in fact. and not one of us deserves the job by rite of resume, party, seniority, family or family narrative. it is nobody's turn. it is everybody's test and it's wide open exactly as a contest for president should be. >> but the hash tag no more bushes was trending nationally on twitter throughout the speech and this line about his family probably didn't help. >> in this country of ours the most improbable can happen. take that from a guy who met his first president on the day he was born and his second on the day he was brought home from the hospital. >> bush talked at length about his wife from mexico and delivered a couple of lines in spanish his prepared remarks included zero mention of immigration reform. the issue forced interrupting the speech with the message legal status is not enough reference to past. and they did that during bush's tribute to his mother. >> she is watching what i say and frankly with all these reporters around i am watching what she says, too. our friends know the next president of the united states will pass meaningful immigration reform so that that will be solved not by executive order. >> joining me now michael steel and senior political writer. that to me was most interesting moment in the speech for this reason. the first thing a lot of people did when the remarks were e-mailed was look through and were surprised to find not a mention of immigration. they interrupt the speech and they get a mention of immigration out of him in response to that. >> they do. and it's not surprising in the sense that he responded to it. it is a little bit curious that he didn't at least include some reference either in the bigraphical part where he is talking about his wife and his family even when he was speaking spanish. i think there may be more tactic involved than just trying to avoid the issue. i think he wanted to send a different kind of message at the beginning not based around a substantive policy issue like immigration but talk about the differences that he wants to move into in this campaign but not specifically with respect to policy. >> i think that's true. he largely avoided policy. it was particularly in contrast to hillary clinton's speech which we will talk about which was very policy intensive. i thought -- i got to say i understand it is a little hard if you are the speech writer for this campaign to figure out how to deal with the fact that your brother and father are both presidents. in this country of ours the most improbable things can happen like only in america can a man born to a president and the brother of a president be a president. what was that? >> that was a bad and strange note in a pretty good speech and performance. this issue about his -- the kind of dynasty question will be something that follows him throughout the campaign. he knows that. he is going to address it and answer questions. he knows he will have to keep answering questions about his father and brother. i was out with him in europe for the past week where he talked extensively about his father who is fairly popular in the countries that he visited and studiously avoided [ inaudible ] third bush in a row could be president. the third bush in the family. that was a strange moment. >> i didn't take that away from it. i thought it was a pretty good line when you think about it. i think if he hadn't made some reference to his father and brother then the narrative would have been bush is avoiding talking about his father and his brother. you are absolutely right. he is going to have to address it. i think he found a cute way to do it and nonoffensive and didn't amount to much more than a laugh in the speech and moves on. >> you wrote a piece about jeb bush embarked on least joyful campaign ever. weird stylistic thing to note, but as a viewer it feels always when i'm watching him like this isn't someone enjoying this which the whole thing seems unenjoyable. >> i would be miserable if i were running for president. the reason i pointed it out is when he first started flirting with the presidential run the main question he had to answer for himself was can i do it joyfully. ever since he said that if you observe him out on the campaign trail in europe, wherever he is there is a general joylessness that wafts off of him. and it goes to the fundamental i think rationale of his campaign which is that he believes he is a grown up in a field of unprepared, unserious candidates and in that way his candidacy is oppositional in nature. he wants to save his party, the republican party from people who he thinks are less serious. that's come through in conversations i have had with people who know him for a long time, his aides. i think running a campaign like that is not by its very nature going to be a joyful, exciting, positive upbeat experience. >> the one place where he seemed to be most animated i thought was surprising and a window into the strategy of jeb campaign in this primary is when he talked about the little sisters of the poor and this lawsuit that has to do with a conscious exemption in the affordable care act. it occurred that one smart thing they come up with is they find a sliver of vin diagram where they can lean into giving the religious rite particularly red meat and leaned into that and was an indicator we see a lot more of that in this campaign. >> that is true to a certain degree. i don't know if it was just a play to the religious rite. i think there is a lot of concern out there that every day folks religious or not has about the role -- have about the role the government plays with these types of organizations, charities and the like. i think there is still a lot of unanswered questions in that regard. i think he put down a marker saying i will be the guy very much like hillary wants to be the champion for certain things. he wants to be the guy to be a champion for protecting those rights against an intrusive government. >> thank you both. both jeb bush and hillary clinton made an interesting choice leaving out their famous last name kind of just regular folks, hillary and jeb . in an interview this morning mitt romney of all people argue that hillary clinton is just too elite and too wealthy to connect with most american voters. >> somehow when you see her on the stage or when she comes to a room full of people she is smiling with her mouth but her eyes are saying where is my latte. how can she sell a populous message when she makes in one hour a multiple of what the average american will make in a year? >> asked about comments clinton made her strongest case yet. >> i want everybody to have the same opportunities that i had and that my husband had. i don't think americans are against success. i think americans are against people who get on the top of the ladder and start pulling it up so nobody else has the same chance that they had. >> that fits in with the message she rolled out in new york city on saturday embracing the broad theme of combatting economic inequality. >> while many of you are working multiple jobs to make ends meet you see the top 25 hedgefund managers making more than all of america's kindergarten teachers combined and often paying a lower tax rate. >> and that speech clinton embraced something she stayed very far away from in 2008, her gender. >> i may not be the youngest candidate in this race, but i will be the youngest woman president in the history of the united states. >> joining me now rebecca traister whose daughter extremely adorable and awesome is in that shot in her little striped shirt. you were there with her. i thought that moment, that sound byte symbolized so much the ways in which the campaign seems to be constructed as a repudiation of 2008. >> absolutely. she is running a different kiepd of campaign. she is comparing herself to franklin roosevelt. that is a big move -- forget hillary compared to last campaign. after several decades of sucking up to ronald reagan and good things about reagan. hillary has done things like that certainly talked about and lived compromised. and she is really sort of taking off in what feels like a very new direction compared to her recent political life by saying actually i am only going to work with willing partners. that was pretty direct. >> i thought so too. that was a very interesting line. >> this was not about the great reaching across the aisle. you come to me. that's a big move to make. >> i thought the embracing of the historic candidacy the hardest question to answer is why do you want to be president? the truthful answer is i'm a drangeed person because this is absolutely insane undertaking. i want to be the first woman president is a pretty darn good answer. >> very progressive answer. the inverse of that which is let's have another guy. that's not just symbolism. that has meaning. 230 years of male uninterrupted power. to be the first female president. >> you make this point in the piece you wrote which is basically hillary clinton was sort of introduced to america and the kind of tweet length version was meet this woman who is like a liberal feminist smarty pants. and then spent basically particularly starting in 2000 when she having to be elected herself as doing everything in her power to -- >> want to make an argument that she is her authentic hillary self. she is a calculating politician. >> it is useless. >> it is all performance. when you watch campaigns you are watching theater. i am happy if the players are listening. hillary's shift seems to indicate that she has noticed a change in mood and change in need and she seems to be trying to move towards it. i think that is a good thing. it does reflect a lot of work she did early in her career as a law student and young lawyer in arkansas. she was engaged in criminal defense, legal services. she was a public defender in arkansas, set up legal aid clinic. her investment in criminal justice reform has roots in her early career. that is something we forget when we take her to task for the role her husband played in terms of building a prison complex. >> very good point. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> unusual moment on the campaign trail as hillary clinton met the press. activists detained as they try to stop a drilling head. and the president of the naacp joins me after resignation of spokane naacp president. rachel dolezal speaks. you do not want to miss that. heroes charge! ♪ ♪ (explosion) ♪ hah! (explosion) ♪ lead your heroes in the hit mobile game download heroes charge now! as we enter the era of legalized marijuana an employer can fire you for off duty pot use even medical marijuana. brandon coats consumed pot offduty to help with muscle spasms. colorado has a lawful off duty activity statute which prohibits employers for firing workers for engaging in lawful activities in their own time. since pot is legal in colorado this would seem to qualify. but the supreme court found engaged in activity such as medical marijuana use permitted understate law but unlawful during federal law are not protected. as legal use begins to pass this decision is an important reminder it is clashing with federal law. momentum behind legal weed seems clear. at some point the federal government is going to have to do more than simply tolerate state's experimentation. congress and the president are going to have to take the politically risky and correct stance to legalize it nationally. jeb bush running today. he is trying to say his last name doesn't matter. any piece of advice for him on that? >> i have to say that is a very tempting question to answer but i won't. >> in the wake of mounting criticism from the press corps covering hillary clinton did something that she rarely does answered questions from reporters, some of them anyway. journalists frustrated over what they believe is inadequate access to cover the democratic front runner. if the access is unprecedented so is the media scrum. clinton is being covered like a sitting president with overwhelming media tracking every move. this weekend more than 500 reporters showed up to cover her campaign kickoff speech which was aired live. that's 500 reporters and that is crazy. one truism on political insiders is american people do not care whether or not the press corps is happy with how much access they are getting. and very few people blame hillary clinton for being wary of the media. it is not without consequences for the candidate and for the party she hopes to lead. joining me now eric boehlert. i thought this was basically these fights are immaterial. barack obama proved no one cares if the press whines about access. >> the 500 reporters is probably more than covered obama four years ago. it is so over the top. need for content. 16, 18 months out it is kind of ridiculous but they have to produce it. let's write about ourselves and how unhappy we are and have a debate about access. >> so here is where i think it is important. it appears to be happening over the trans pacific partnership. hillary clinton is running to get the nominee of the democratic party. this is possibly the most controversial issue i have seen in the time i have covered barack obama. he has got handed this. it seems important to get her views on this. this was her today answering a question on trade. take a listen. >> the issue for me is what is in the deal? and i think now there is an opportunity for the president and his team to reach out and meet with the people who have sat on the floor like pelosi did that we need a better deal, not i'm against it no matter what is in it or i'm for it no matter what is in it. >> that was a not answering the question. it does seem important that the reason that access seems important to me is i would like to get a clear position from hillary clinton if you are in the senate how do you vote on trade promotion authority? >> she is running for president. if you are in the senate you are going to have to have a vote record. it seems like a basic standard to say where would you vote on this? she went to iowa and talked about it. now the press is like we don't like that answer. you can keep asking. they should keep asking her. >> i want a position. i am a democratic primary voter i want to know where she is on this issue and it seems that one of the sort of insidious aspects is it is easier to avoid that. today showed you can take questions and not come down clearly. >> she is saying there is still a process. she is opposed to trade agreements in the past and supported trade agreements in the past. she is saying she wants to protect the environment. let's have a conversation. there is a process. >> here is the thing i find disengenious. she was secretary of state. the deal was being worked out and negotiated while she was there. it's not like she is like getting on the air like what is the deal with this trans pacific partnership. she oversaw foreign policy arm of the american government and was quite supportive of it during that stage. it seems that is important to be on the record. >> she has talked about it many times. she talked about the idea of trade deals, but, again, she is saying when we come to a final deal what is the house going to do? what is obama going to do? she is suggesting like pelosi they should work together. >> you think if there is another vote we will get a position from her on which side of that she is on? >> i assume so. she was saying some people would support it and some people would oppose it. she doesn't want to be in that position quite yet. the press can keep asking. again, the point a couple of weeks ago she wouldn't talk about it. >> she talked about it today. >> then it's like we don't like the answer. >> always a pleasure. still ahead we check in with florida where a new bill would ensure rick scott cheap health care as he refuses to expand medicaid for fellow floridaens. swirls and swerves... ... as every blade adjusts to your curves. new venus swirl. with contour blades that have six times more flexibility. plus a flexiball. flawless shaving bones, bends, and all. new venus swirl. we have been following efforts by politicians and activists around the world from restarting arctic drilling operation suspended since 2012 despite billions of dollars of investment from that company. in april a group of protesters dramatically boarded a shell rig as it was being towed across the ocean and camped on it for six days to protest the planned drilling. when the rig arrived in the port of seattle where shell is housing arctic drilling and equipment a large group of self-proclaimed kayaktivists formed a blockade. today shell planned to start towing the rig to the arctic. they were back out on the water early this morning before the rig could depart. once it started moving the protesters were in violation of a 500-yard safety zone around the rig. the coast guard began pulling them out of their boats. 24 protesters were detained. they were then booked and fined $250. you might say they were towed out of the water. the protesters say their fight is far from over and far from futile. every minute protesters can delay is another chance for president obama to reconsider his disastrous approval of oil drilling in alaska and added it is not too late to stop the catastrophe before it starts. why pause to take a pill? 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what do you think they should do? >> you are going to see them come forward with an aggressive and thoughtful approach, something that doesn't involve massive staffus that the obama plan has delivered, doesn't involve losing doctor and losing your insurance and doesn't involve massive increases -- >> what is that [ inaudible ]. >> not magical world at all. it was proposed prior to obamacare being passed, a bill called cpr which would set up that system where you ensure people for care. >> there would have been no bureaucratic staffus? >> would have been a much more efficient and effective way to deliver health care than what we are dealing with today. you can throw words out but as a practical matter if you are not willing to consider alternatives which are substantive you should not be making statements. >> what do you base -- >> i'm sure -- >> what do you base that on? that it was more efficient? >> because it was by definition more efficient and less costly. if you look at the obamacare proposal almost all the representations that it put forward have failed. you don't keep your own doctor. the costs have gone up significantly. you lose your insurance and more importantly than that uninsured folks didn't get picked up. >> that is just not true. the uninsured rates have plummeted to a 15-year low. >> of course it has. look at the date. >> it has not plummeted. it has gone from 44 million to 40 million. >> that is not a plummet. >> you think that is true? >> yes, that is true. >> the rate of uninsured has gone down about six to eight percentage points since obamacare was effectuated. >> six to eight points from 44 million person base is about 40 million people. it is true. i wish you would get your numbers right. your numbers are worse than obama's. >> those numbers are correct. >> your ability to understand your numbers is worse than obama. >> we will show that graph after we are done with this. >> i'm sure you will show a graph. i'm not sure it will be an accurate one. >> thank you very much. up next the president of the naacp shares his perspective on rachel dolezal and former head of the spokane naacp who just resigned. >> we just hope and pray that she will be successful in her pursuit to come into a more realist and truthful way of living. a lot of the white jewish students would question and say it is crazy that you are jewish but the black students wouldn't say the same thing. in that community they understood the full diversity of who we could be. >> i got the chance to talk with lacey schwarz, a film maker who discovered her biological father was black. i asked for her perspective. if you missed that interview you can watch it now on our facebook page. i'll be on facebook as i am every tuesday to answer your questions about everything. head to our facebook page and ask me whatever you like. seriously? you're not at all concerned? about what now? oh, i don't know. the apocalypse? we're fine. i bundled renter's with my car insurance through progressive for just six bucks more a month. word. there's looters running wild out there. covered for theft. okay. that's a tidal wave of fire. covered for fire. what, what? all right. fine. i'm gonna get something to eat. the boy's kind of a drama queen. just wait. where's my burrito? [ chuckles ] worst apocalypse ever. protecting you till the end. now, that's progressive. former senator judd greg and i had record of obamacare. i said it dropped by about six to eight percentage points and there you see the percentage of people uninsured by quarter was 18% of the high before obamacare implemented. that is a drop of about six percentage points or about a third of the people who are unemployed. if a third were 44 million people then that is a lot more than 4 million people who now have health insurance at least by my back of the envelope math. tonight the saga of rachel dolezal continues to unfold as perhaps most controversial person to serve resigns from her post. the civil rights activist accused of misrepresenting herself as black admits she was stepping down. dolezal repeatedly identified herself as black until dolezal's parents spoke to reporters noting the racial makeup is overwhelmingly white. the proof came from a birth certificate and photos offered up. a start contrast to dolezal's current appearance posting a statement on the naacp facebook page that reads i will never stop fighting for human rights and will do everything in my power to help and assist whether it means stepping up or down because this is not about me but about justice. this is not me quitting but a continuum. the university where dolezal had part-time teaching position says her contract with the school ended on friday and she is no longer employed as her parents who have been estranged from their daughter continue to speak publically. she had this reaction to her daughter's resignation. >> i noticed in her letter of resignation there was no actual addressing of the issue of being dishonest about her ethnicity nor was there any apology. so i see that as a first step in her path to moving away from the negative feelings that she has had towards her family members. >> the national naacp issued this statement. the naacp is not concerned with the racial identity of our leadership. ms. rachel dolezal decided to resign to ensure the branch remains focused on fighting for human rights. joining me now mr. brooks. when this story first broke which is a fascinating one. i think a lot of people are quite compelled by it. the national naacp saying we are standing by her. a lot of people were a little surprised by that statement. i am curious to hear your organization's thinking in releasing that statement. >> the naacp is a bottom up organization. when you talk to people in spokane about leadership she was widely respected as an advocate and a branch president. so the initial story around her racial identity did not speak to her leadership so we made clear that we as an organization have never regarded one's racial identity as qualifying or disqualifying characteristic for leadership. that has never been the case. so we stood by her record as a branch president of the naacp. >> why do you think the story has captivated people the way it has? >> i think this story has been about race and about who gets to call themselves an african-american. but at the end of the day what is really important here certainly from the vantage point of naacp is it's not a question of racial identity but a question about our commitment to bringing about an end of racism. that is the work of the naacp. so if you look at her resignation letter she resigns or she states as a reason for resigning allowing the branch to focus on the work. and the work is most important. at the end of the day it is our institutional integrity, our commitment to the issues, not the distractions of any particular individuals that is significant, that is important here. >> it does strike me from the perspective institutional integrity the most troubling issue isn't about her talking about her background or fabricating who her father was. it's the idea that some of the complaints she filed about hate crimes could have possibly been fabricated. we know that investigations into them have been suspended, but it strikes me from the perspective of the organization that would be the most important thing to get to the bottom of. >> we don't know. and we don't want to go beyond the facts. what we do know is for 106 years the naacp has been a trusted voice on america's most profound social justice challenges and civil rights challenges. and we value that. at the end of the day those letters naacp mean something to this country. they represent a certain integrity and commitment. and we are committed to doing real work, work that speaks to the power of those letters. so these reality tv moments are just that, moments. they do not oblit rate and will not distract us from the work we have been doing well over a century and work. it needs to be done now. we see children being traumatized at pool parties, where we see young people being racially profiled, that is important work. that is what we have to focus on and what we care about. >> what kind of things are you hearing? i know from reporting on naacp it really is about an organization. are you getting flack for this episode? >> what we are hearing is that there are people who are deeply disappointed in pain by this experience. their pain not really because of what happened with this one branch president, but to the extent that it is a distraction from real work. for example, today we announced in a long scheduled press event a major initiative, america's journey for justice, a march from selma, alabama to washington, d.c. we are looking to follow up on marches. >> the massive public reaction to rachel dolezal. 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[baby coos] aveeno®. naturally beautiful babies. joining me now professor of africana studies. one interesting part of this fascinating saga which is unfolding which i like everyone just can't turn away from, it unleashed a lot of great sophisticated meditations on the nature of race. i thought yours was one of the best. you write this. rachel dolezal is not black by lineage yet i find her deceptions less troubling than vexed criteria being used to exclude her. you say she was lying about a lie. what does that mean? >> i don't think of her as someone who is black. i don't think you can simply darken your skin and declare you have this identity. at the same time if we are honest about this whole category of race we know it doesn't exist. so at the same time as we are saying we have some problems with her just deciding she is part of this community, we have to be very real and say this is not a real discrete category in the first place. >> this is where things get so -- but in another level it very much does exist. how do you explain the distinction between the fact that it does and does not exist? >> so what has happened is that a kind of central lie, an original lie. and this lie was used to distort the humanity of a particular set of individuals for reasons that relate to the birth of capitalism and exploitation and slavery. so i'm quite sure the first people enslaved understood this was a lie but the community that came out of this lie is very real based upon -- >> forged by history, shared experience and so on. so i think the thing that she did that was most offensive to me was not that she created this false biography which i thought was silly or weird but because of the nature of slavery and the large amount of rape that happened in the institution of slavery black america has kind of gotten a policy where we don't check people's membership at the door. all of us have white ancestry. >> you say this thing in the piece about it is like faith in that we -- if you confess to be a certain religion we don't check. you are and you say blackness in america functionally functions that way. sdpl i was raised catholic. i don't remember someone saying when was your confirmation, just the idea that we are a part of this community. for instance i taught as a professor in moscow and i remember having an interesting conversation with russian students who were kind of perplexed that someone who maybe looked like viola davis would be considered in the same category as someone who looks like halle berry saying how are these people considered the same? >> very good question. >> it is because the nature of slavery has been such that in the same family we can have people who look this way and talk about that in the piece. >> you yourself. >> my father was a dark complexion man with black hair and brown eyes. and a sister with reddish hair, grayish eyes. we understood this european lineage pops up. >> this is something that you write about in this new book coming out, a phenomenal book about arriving at howard university which is where you went and she went and being amazed by the incredible diversity of blackness in this place. >> and so what is strange about this and i think the plug for my friend's book between the world and me he talks about that really well and it's kind of a common narrative within such a broad variety of people who fit under this category. i met a person who was half african-american and half -- and you fit in. nobody was going to say you are not part of this community. there was nowhere else that was going to meet somebody else. >> and then you have to imagine we found this crazy wrinkle. she sued the university apparently as a white person for discriminating against her for her whiteness and after losing that lawsuit apparently decided i'm going to go over to the other side. >> it is like i voted for it before i voted against it. if you can't beat them join them literally kind of idea. it's bizarre. i think this kind of weird humorous subtext that you look at this going what is going on here? really it does touch upon things that are really very sensitive in the idea of like who is considered black and who isn't. >> we should say sensitive in terms of what is happening with that family with the parents doing interview after interview sort of blowing up her spot. obviously there is a familyial drama that is pretty intense. it's always such a pleasure to have you. >> thank you. >> that is all in for this evening. tomorrow night rachel dolezal will sit down with melissa harris perry here on all in. rachel maddow starts right now. >> thanks my friend. >> thanks for staying with us for the next hour. even for things that we are pretty good at, even for things that we are paid to do, all of us have our limits. part of being an adult is recognizing the outer boundaries of what we are capable of as people. so my job, for instance is understanding and explaining the news and in order to do that job i do a lot of exposition in terms of just raw factual explanation of what is going on in the world and the news. i also do analysis to explain what is important going on in the news or what makes it interesting. i don't think i'm the best at my job. there are people in this building that are better than me at every aspect of my job. mostly i am glad this is my job because i love doing it.
the billionaire prepares for an announcement and much more on this busy tuesday. "first look" starts right now. good morning everyone. i'm angie. right now, bracing for dangerous weather, tropical storm bill is closing in on the gulf. the storm packing 50-mile-per-hour winds and in the threat zone oklahoma arkansas louisiana and still-soaked texas. in houston, the rush to get ready yesterday as the city is put on high alert. flood warnings are up and in the forecast possibly 12 inches of rain. southern houston and galveston canceling classes. bill karins has the latest on the storm's track. >> dangerous storm. only three weeks ago, we had the horrible and deadly flooding in texas and we have a situation where we could easily get another 6 to 12 inches on this soaked soil of east texas. and that's the concern. we're not concerned with the storm surge. could be around 2 to 3 feet at landfall. winds could be maybe 50 or 60-mile-per-hour gusts. but it's this bulk of rain that has to come up into texas over the next couple of days and that is where the problem will be. across the coast, up towards dallas by about 1:00 p.m. notice the winds die down to just a remnant low by this point and it tracks back to the ohio valley. this is probably the most soaked areas of our country and that's the exact path that this storm is going to take. how much rainfall is possible with this? latest computer estimates are 8 to 10 inches at the high end. but, again, we don't know yet quite where the training is going to be. but the potential is for 4 to 8 widespread, up towards to 8 to 10. that's why we have flood watches that go from core pus christy to springfield and now the st. louis areas. and our long range computers, take the heavy rains, back up through the ohio valley. we had horrible thunderstorms last night, angie, with flash flooding problems with pennsylvania to illinois. they're going to get this storm eventually, too, so we have a lot of flooding to deal with in the week ahead. >> and that rainfall today, around noon to 1:00 p.m. >> thank you. it's a word you don't throw around lightly, but this morning in chicago, they're rightfully shouting it with pride. dynasty. game six of the stanley cup finals blackhawks were all over the lightning. hard hit a goal in second period and another to seal it in the third. and then this. >> call for another block. five to go. for the third time in six years, the black hawk res stanley cup champions! >> you heard nbc's doc emrick. three stanley cup wins in six years. the last time they won it on home ice back in 1938. after that one, the oldest traditions in sports. the series ending handshakes. the blackhawks had to wait around on the ice for lord stanley's cup to arrive on the stadium reportedly because of the bad weather and traffic issues. so when that 122-year-old relic arrived, the grown men kissed that trophy. out in the chicago streets, massive celebrations and, you bet, more than a few of those people out there probably calling in sick this morning. and the cover of the "chicago tribune," very simple. hat trick. congratulations to everyone out in chicago. a huge triumph for the u.s. military. al qaeda now saying that its second in command, nasser al wahishi is dead. killed by an air strike in yemen. he was a target on friday. he is the head of the al qaeda in the arain yajan peninsula. meanwhile, there are still lingering doubts this morning that another target was, in fact, killed. this one in libya. initial reports indicate nasser al baktar was taken identity but still no official corn firm confirmation yet. donald trump, will he or won't he? he could become the 12th person to announce plans for the white house. trump would follow on the heels of jeb bush who yesterday became the 11th person to declare a run for the presidency. on the flip side hillary clinton has been busy on the campaign trail. while in new hampshire yesterday she discussed early childhood education and once again avoided taking a position on president obama's trade deal. tracie potts reports from washington. >> reporter: the donald on twitter calling today a really big day for america after a rally in new york today, trump's schedule has him hitting iowa and new hampshire. and according to "the washington post," detailing his $9 billion fortune. >> i will run with heart and i will run to win. >> he'll face jeb bush who dropped his famous last name on his logo announcing a presidential run. >> the next president of the united states will pass meaningful immigration reform so that that will be solved not by executive order. >> reporter: immigration could be a tough one for bush. >> first he was for it. now he's against it. now he might be for it again. he's going to have to figure out a way to answer that. >> reporter: like trump, bush is believed to have tons of money to work with. he's been able to raise $100 million and, of course he has very strong network of donors. >> i'm running on my record. >> reporter: another multi millionaire, hillary clinton held her first news conference as a candidate declaring americans aren't against success. >> i think americans are against people who get on the top of the ladder and start pulling it up so that nobody else has the same chance that they had. >> and that was nbc's tracie potts reporting. this morning new information on those vicious slashing attacks in north carolina that took the left arms of two young people. area beaches remain open today while authorities patrol the shore line. the family of the first victim a 12-year-old girl is asking that we not report her name or her condition right now. but we're hearing from the paramedic who just happened to be in the water when the girl was attacked. >> when i got to her and realized how bad the injuries were my -- i guess i just kind of went into work mode. we got some strings off of a boogie board and off of a tent and i made some makeshift attorney kits until we could get the proper equipment on scene. she was so strong did a wonderful job and her parents were amazing, keeping her calm. >> and this is the scene of a second attack a little more than an hour later. that 16-year-old boy has been upgraded to good condition. rachel dolezal, the civil rights activist who has been accused of misrepresenting herself a as black has announced she's stepping down from president of the spokane naacp. she repeatedly identified herself as black until her own parents spoke to reporters saying her racial makeup is in fact overwhelmingly white. dolezal will share her story in an exclusive one-on-one interview with melissa harris perry today on msnbc. it's day 11 of that massive manhunt for those two escaped murderers in new york state. while law enforcement has not found them yet, we are starting to get more information on what may have happened. prison worker joyce mitchell accused of helping them on the inside appeared in court yesterday. a law enforcement source tells nbc news she may have wanted the deadly duo to kill her husband, also a prison employee. and multiple sources familiar with the investigation tell nbc mitchell was investigated for a sexual relationship with escapee david sweet.at. then it was the owner one who charmed her. and the district attorney saying there may be more people involved in that escape. let's get down to business with cnbc's landon dowdy. great to see you. >> great to see you, too. gap is going to close about a quarter of its namesake stores. the retailer will shed 175 locations in north america, most of them this year. it's unclear how many job cuts will result on the move. gap is also eliminating 250 jobs at its corporate office. goldman sachs is thinking small. the investment bank plans to start offering consumer loans online as soon as next year. the loans of a few thousand dollars would be offered through a website or app with no cost for branches. goldman could lend the money at lower interest rates. and honda is adding another 1.4 million cars to its massive recall of vehicles with the faulty takata air bags. models include the civics and according made between 2001 and 2007. these calls have already been made to replace the driver's side air bags. >> thanks so much. in sports blue jays taking on the mets. the blue jays looking to extend their winning streak to 12. the blue jays pitcher has beaten every team in the league except the new york mets. jump to the bottom, one hit to left field for the tying rbi double. very next play singles up on the middle to send juda home. mets win this one, 4-3 and end the blue jay's 11-game winning streak. big night in sports tonight, the nba could be crowning a new champion or does king james have what it takes to force a game seven? and in vancouver, team usa will play nigeria in a world cup matchup. nigeria is ranked 33rd in women's rankings and the u.s. is second. new england patriots owner robert kraft hosted a party for his team as they received their super bowl rings. tom brady, enjoying himself. this is the largest super bowl ring ever 205 diamonds in all. tom willis putting his best foot forward throwing out the best foot at the san francisco giants game yet and it was nothing short of incredible. he did it with his feet. and speaking of incredible check out this video. the australian team called how ridiculous looking to set a new world record for highest basketball shot. their target the dam in pass mania and their goal, 415 feet. take a look. >> light, light, light. >> yeah! >> that shot was unreal. smoking pot may be legal in colorado, but that doesn't mean you can't get fired for lighting up. plus the details surrounding this teen being take hissed by a police officer. ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. ♪ ♪ ♪ at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step. is there such a thing as a sure thing in business? some say buy gold. others say buy soybeans. i say, buy comcast business internet. unlike internet providers that slow down when traffic picks up, you get speed you can rely on. it's a safe bet. like a gold-plated soybean. reliably fast internet starts at $69.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. welcome back. in the "defer post," the colorado supreme court, employers can fire for pot use, even for medical reasons. the case surrounded a quadriplegic who was using medical marijuana. he was fired after failing a drug test. directv, for example, lass a zero tolerance drug policy. the court found that only activities legal under federal .state law are allowed under the lawful off duty activity statutes. >> there is a lot of people out there who use marijuana for medical reasons and today they've all become unemployable. in san diego, an investigation is on after a run away teen is tased and being tackled by this deputy. the teen's friends captured it. there's no video of what happened before the recording, but the deputy says when he approached the run away, a scuffle started. in the video someone reportedly yelled he's choking him out. but you can't tell from the video. the teen then allegedly bites the deputy and that's when he was tased, the deputy's boss coming to his defense. >> what we have is really an out of control juvenile who could have prevented this whole ordeal just by obeying the commands of the deputy. and new details in the benghazi investigation. sydney blumenthal a hillary clinton confidant has turned over new memos on libya specifically 120 new pages of e-mails between him and then secretary of state clinton. according to the "new york times," the e-mails include information about the weapons that were circulating in libya and the security situation. blumenthal goes before the house select committee investigating benghazi later this morning. denny hastert, confidential. plus who performed at the president's private party? scrambled politics is next. welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow. and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house! when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. why pause the moment? ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. for a free 30-tablet trial go to cialis.com we've got your tuesday edition of scram knowledged politics. senator mark kirk is apologizing after making this open mike candidate towards presidential candidate lindsey graham. >> i've been joking that -- he doesn't have -- >> vice chairman -- >> he's going to have a rotating fird lady. he's a bro with no ho. >> yesterday, kirk wrote i apologize to the people of illinois for my inappropriate remarks last week. today, vice president joe biden will be speaking at a clean energy summit in d.c. there will be his first public speech since the death of his season, beau biden earlier this month. we are learning richard mac, one of the escaped new york convicts had a hidden talent painting. over the years, he has been mailing friends some of his artworks. you can see bill clinton, hillary clinton before that as well as barack obama. matt was sentenced to 25 years in prison for killing and dismembering a man. from the "new york times" invitations to the white house party signed sealed and delivered, but private. the president and first lady threw a party on saturday for 500 guests. prince and stevie wonder reportedly performed. the white house, though is staying quiet on this one. >> the president and first lady did host a private event here at the white house over the weekend. but given the fact that it was a private event, we didn't spend a lot of time talking about it publicly. while in new hampshire monday hillary clinton got the chance to read to a group of youngsters. turns out some of them recognized her. >> you know what? i -- >> i see you on tv. >> du? you know you did? >> on tonight show host jimmy fallon and hillary clinton talked about her presidential campaign last night. >> that's right. hillary clinton officially kicked off her campaign this weekend. we obviously can't show you the whole thing, but we were able to condense it down so you get the gist. >> i'm going to be president and no one else stands a chance. >> there you go. >> that's the first time i saw that. pretty funny. that's your morning dish of scrambled politics. this is only the beginning. only the beginning. joining me here in studio political analyst ellis hennikin. >> so who is going to cut up our edits and do them like that? >> i don't know. it would be hilarious. i'm not important enough. we're not important enough all right? let's start with the president's trade deal because, ellis, it seems like he's in a real troubling spot. this is a way for the president to leave a positive legacy on the world stage. it looks like it's just fallen apart. >> and he got slammed by his own democrats on friday. 302-126. a stinging defeat in the house and the dems were mostly stacked against him. what he has now is time. john boehner working with the white house, agreeing just put this off for six weeks before there's going the be a real final decision on it. you know what? maybe he can make some kind of deal with republicans. he hasn't gotten very far with it yet, but he has a few weeks to try and sort it out. >> i want to talk about hillary clinton because this is one of the questions she was asked at her first presser yesterday. she quite frankly dodged the question. smart move? >> the main question people want to know is when are you going to start answering questions, right? >> when are there going to be more of these. >> she came off pretty well. she looked good. the speech was nice. but she's been very reluctant to get to the gritty questions that people have and i think she has to start doing more. >> and connect. >> yeah. we've known a long time she's running. but she's been doing this listening tour and more listening. it's time to do some talking, hillary. >> but she has to track lightly because she needs the president, right? if they want to get another democrat in the white house. >> it's always dicey with the guy who is in office you don't want to slam him because you don't want to turn his supporters off but you don't want to be too close to him. >> a tight rope at that. we have to get to trump, the big announcement. is he serious this time? >> i hate to say so because i've been burned so many times. he acts like he's going to run and then he doesn't. >> you have a feel? >> it looks like he's going to jump in at least long enough to make the top ten for those debates where he gets some more publicity. >> you know what is going to happen if he's in one of those debates. he's going to steal the show. could this hurt republicans, real quick? >> well he does suck the air out of the room. i don't think he's a serious candidate. i don't know. i think a lot of republicans wish he would go away and be quiet. >> you love him or hate it. thanks for stopping by. just ahead, the pope's elite message on climate change. plus, find out what the pant yif thinks we should do about global warming. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? and that is my recommendation. let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! he's ready. la quinta inns & suites take care of you, so you can take care of business. book your next stay at lq.com! la quinta! you've heard of a "win-win," right? what about a "win-win-win"? pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo by motorola. water-repellent. up to 48-hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. that's your first "win." plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network. there's your next "win." now for final "win." get $250 when you trade in any smartphone. and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. here is a simple math problem. two trains leave st. louis for albuquerque at the same time. same cargo, same size, same power. which one arrives first? hint: it's not the one on the left. the speedy guy on the right is part of an intelligent system that creates the optimal trip profile for all trains on the line. and the one on the left? uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. shopping online... ...is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. the conference call. the ultimate arena for business. hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. the only problem with conference calls: eventually they have to end. unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. it lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. leading the news in the "wall street journal," the pope calls global warming a threat and urges action. pope france's highly anticipated letter to his actions were leaked. in it he says human activity and fossil fuels are to plame for climate change. he calls on people to move away from a consumerist lifestyle. a judge agrees to secrecy in the dennis hastert case. hastert allegedly agreed to pay $3.5 million in hush money to conceal prior misconduct which sources say was of a sexual nature at a high school when he taught in the '60s and '70s. and last night, jimmy fallon found out he has support if he and a certain singer should ever decide to run for president. >> how are you doing? >> oh my god. that is the best i've seen. i haven't even announced yet. >> fallon timber lake '16, fantastic. that's -- yeah. >> he didn't know what to say. he was speechless. but who would be the vice president and president? >> i think timber lake would be the vice president. he has a nice suit and tie. this is "first look." after six months in speculation, jeb bush finally announced this morning that he's running for president. over the weekend, he released his campaign logo. let's take a look. there you go. that's it. that's the actual -- the true campaign logo. i think it sends a clear message, though not as clear as his first idea. making it official saying it's nobody's a turn to become president, jeb bush announces his candidacy he's going to run with heart and win. the gap loses its luster. how the retailer went from a mall staple to an american icon in trouble. and the city of chicago is popping bubbles this morning after the blackhawks win the stanley cup, their sixth win in 30 years. this is "way too early." ♪ our children will always hear ♪ >> good morning, everybody. it's tuesday, june receive. welcome to "way too early," the show that never sleeps. we begin with politics this morning and jeb bush making it official. in an impassioned speech the former florida governor is getting back into politics by declaring himself ready to serve once more. >> the presidency should not be passed on from one liberal to the next. the question for me is what am i going to do about it? and i've decided i'm a
clutched the media's attention with an indictment that the president of the united states is foreign and illegitimate that he forced his way into the country's highest office but the country's life itself. can this man now be taken seriously as his wannabe successor? michael steele, the former chair of the republican national committee, joan walsh, both are msnbc political analysts. let's watch him do it. >> these are the best and the finest. when mexico sends us people, they're not sending their best. they're not sending you, they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists and some, i assume are good people. >> that was nice, wasn't it, joan, there are some. where is this operation chief somewhere in hq, mexico, guadalajara is sending people off in droves in different complements of troops, it's all organized by some capital and some province in mexico. even if the notion that he talks in seems fictitious. >> it's crazy. >> is that too strong a word? >> no, not too strong a word. we can say racist. this is like half the size of cantaloupes except it's not as funny. it's really dangerous for the republican party. i felt like what we were seeing was kind of a bizarro world version of jeb bush's speech the day before. jeb breaks into spanish, donald trump breaks into nativist. and i think it's terrible for the party. i'm so happy about one thing. that's that my friend michael does not have to preside over this circus. >> i was looking out to the crowd. i don't know whether black, white, mixed crowd, it's really not important. but he says to the crowd in saluting their native-borndom, they're not sending you, you're good people. what a pander that is. not people like you. these dregs, these losers, these criminals, these dealers. first of all, who was he going for? let's talk politics. >> chris, this clearly wasn't the give me your tired, the poor, your hungry. >> don't give me any more of them is what it was. >> this wasn't that speech. look, that's donald. donald throws down. he throws down hard and stuff splatters everywhere. and interesting challenge for the republican -- other republican candidates is what type of check they're going to be on that kind of language, that sentiment. is that going to be the brand that goes forth in the 2016 campaign or is it something else? and i think joan touched on a very important contrast between what we heard come from jeb bush yesterday in reaching out to the hispanic community and what we heard today, not so much. >> well, as i mentioned, the donald, as he is, was one of the most outspoken birthers in the country for the last half dozen years questioning the president's place of birth again and again and again saying he's basically -- somebody snuck him under the fence from kenya. let's watch him at it. >> why doesn't he show his birth certificate? and you know what? i wish he would. because i think it's a terrible pale that's hanging over him. i'm a really smart guy. i was a really good student at the best school in the country. the reason i have a little doubt, just a little, is because he grew up and nobody knew him. nobody ever comes forward. nobody ever knows who he is until later in his life. very strange. if barack obama opens up and gives his college records and applications and if he gives his passport applications and records, i will give to a charity of his choice. >> as recently as this february, 2015, trump continued to play the birther card. let's watch him at it. >> i still would like to see his college records. i'd like to see a couple of things. i'm not looking at his marks. i'd like to see where he put on. look, he wrote a book when he was a young man, and it said, born in kenya, blah, blah, blah. i'd like to see it. trump comes along and says birth certificate. he gave a birth certificate. whether or not that was a real certificate because a lot of people question it, i certainly question it. >> okay. where do we start with this, joan, this attempt to delegitimize the president saying he snuck into american life. he may not even have been in american life. he may not have gone to those schools because nobody knew at those schools. the indictment here is so colossal that he's a fiction himself that obama never really existed in these schools because nobody knew him, so how could he prove he ever went to these schools. >> right. >> to get down to the level of this indictment is pretty raw. i have a thought about it but your thoughts first. >> it is raw and it trades on all the worst right-wing stereotypes about the president. he's kenyan, he's foreign, also he's not very bright. we don't know what he really did in school. he may be fabricating that, he's not competent. it pulls them all together in this massive questioning of his identity. i thought the day that the president had to show his long form birth certificate was a truly sad day when this carnival barker gets the president to show his papers. >> his papers like he stopped him in his car and said, show me your license. >> show me that you deserve to be here. it was disgusting. >> michael, my friend, i want your thoughts, then i'll give you my thoughts because i'll expand on them later about why he does this. in north philadelphia during the campaign in 2008, you know the neighborhood. it's down around temple and the neighbor's never really changed. a working class black neighborhood. kind of tough, tough neighborhood. it's never gotten off the ground. when obama came in here and gave his big speech, i thought he'd be promising people benefits, but he said i want to bring this country together. we're going to be one country. that got the biggest applause from these people who have nothing. could have asked for anything and they don't have it and all they wanted was to be 100% accepted as not just equal american, fellow american, one of us. lebron james just as much an all-american as tom brady. that's all they wanted. just to be fully accepted as american. and this guy comes along and plays the card. your guy, the one elected president, even he's not one of us. he's a foreigner. he snuck in the country. he's a liar. what do you think of that, michael? i think it's eating at the heart. but an equal fellowship. he says, oh, no, even your best guy is a fraud and a foreigner. i think he knew exactly what he was doing because the 20% of the country that still have a problem with this proposition cheered it. a lot of his business partner, his business dealings he makes with people. >> the lowest common denominator, there's no doubt about that. i think that in large measure the vast majority of the american people rejected that argument and have moved away -- >> when are the republican party going to reject it? why don't these just say i will not debate a man who goes after the president that way? >> well, i hope they do. and if he does, i hope in that moment on that stage that one of those individuals rises to the occasion and puts the appropriate check in place. i really do. i think they would. but i don't think that's going to be donald's play this time. i think donald wants to have a more serious, if i can use that term, conversation about some of the things that are important to him. but this was not the way to start that conversation when you use the name calling, when you make pejorative comments about people. look, you sit here and build a wall and send the bill to mexico as president. you'll be waiting a long time to get that check. that's not presidential. that's a tone that he's going to have to change, i think. >> there's no excuse here for lack of intelligence. donald trump is as smart as anybody who has run for president. he knows how to make money and how the world works and he does this. i don't know why he does it. >> also he had a speech and he chucked it. i don't know if the racist line was in there. he's disciplined. michael is way too kind, way too optimistic. the only thing i'll say, the only proviso i'll put on this, he may not really run. this is not, quote, official. he's not filed papers with the fec. we may have just watched a 45-minute infomercial where he got to claim that he's worth $10 million. >> he's in first debate, joan. i think we can be sure of that. >> i hope so. >> he wants to be on that stage, on that first debate in august. he is running second, third in most national polls. he is going to want to be on that stage. but i think donald's going to have to do a little bit different approach in order to stay on that stage. >> we'll see. donald trump did what he does best today, he sold the brand. he sold donald trump. let's watch him in action. >> our country needs a truly great leader. and we need a truly great leader now. we need a leader that wrote the art of the deal. i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. i don't need anybody's money. it's nice. i don't need anybody's money. i'm using my own money. i'm not using the lobbyists, i'm not using donors. i don't care. i'm really rich. i'm proud of my net worth. i've done an amazing job. it was even reported incorrectly yesterday. because they said he had assets of $9 billion. i said, no, that's the wrong number. that's the wrong number. not assets. i'm not doing that to brag because you know what? i don't have to brag. i don't have to. believe it or not. >> what do you make of this guy? i get the point. he's $9 billion in net worth. an amazing success story. no doubt about it. i give him credit for it. but i was always taught don't ever say you're rich. you say we're comfortable. he breaks all the rules. i mean, braggadocios. >> chris, if i could, that's a very important point. he breaks the rules. he's a guy that walks into the china shop and just goes through it. and that's where the party is right now with him. you're going to have to a lot of very staid coiffed and prepared candidates standing on that stage and to their right or to their left will be donald trump. >> who will say anything. >> to as coiffed as he is -- >> i don't know if he's coiffed if i were you. >> he'll say absolutely anything. it will be very entertaining for us. what if he keeps somebody like john kasich off the stage? i would think that's a big problem for you guys. >> i would bet you that a john kasich or bobby jindal or carly fiorina who are going to be sitting at home that night because they didn't reach the magic number, a real problem. >> let's agree now we have some common ground coming up here. donald trump did talk about the need to rebuild our roads, bridges and airports. let's watch some common ground here. let's watch. >> we have to rebuild our infrastructure, our bridges, roadways, our airports. you come into laguardia airport, it's like we're in a third world country. and i come in from china and qatar and different places. and they have the most incredible airports in the world. you come back to this country and you have l.a.x. disaster, you have all these disasters. airports. >> donald trump, a broken clock is right twice a day. he's right on that one. i'll tell you. down in south africa, a new country, newly democratic, a country that has the most beautiful airport in the word and we've got jfk. anyway, thank you, michael steele, thank you, joan walsh. a hot fight brewing between the right wing in this country and pope francis, the holy father is about to release a cyclical saying climate change is man made and we need to take urgent action to combat it. now we have conservatives some running for president caught between their ideology and their religion. rachel dolezal, the white woman who resigned as head of the naacp in spokane. she says she identifies with being black. we'll get to that with our roundtable tonight. what's a republican debate going to look like with donald trump on the stage? he's a gifted bomb thrower. finally let me finish with a matter donald trump needs to settle before we look at him as a serious candidate. thanks for calling angie's list. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because it gives me... zero heartburn! prilosec otc. the number 1 doctor-recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 9 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. don't look now but bernie sanders is coming on strong in new hampshire. let's check the "hardball scoreboard." according to a new poll from suffolk, hillary clinton's lead is now ten points, clinton's at 41, bernie sanders at 31. the battle for the hearts and minds of progressives is on. it's real. welcome back to "hardball." man-made climate change is real and we must act on it now. that's the headline in the pope's cyclical from the church that's due out thursday this week. a draft was just leaked to the press. the pope will make a moral and scientific call for urgent action on global warming saying that, quote, plenty of scientific studies point out that the last decades of global warming have been mostly caused by the great concentration of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrogen oxide and other, especially generated by human action. the poor and the berth are shouting, care about the world that we inhabit. anyway, the pope's words are a strong denunciation of what we're hearing on the hard right, especially among presidential hopefuls. here's just a sampling of the flat-earthers, if you will, running for president. >> i do not believe that human activity is causing these dramatic changes to our climate the way these scientists are portraying it. >> somebody tell me what a hundred years data is in a earth that's 4.6 billion years old. my guess is that the conclusions that you make from that are not conclusive. >> for the people to say the sciences decided on this is just really arrogant. >> do you believe climate change is real? >> you know, i'm always troubled by theory that fits every perfect situation. >> this whole global warming hoax, this winter is brutal. i mean, i'm in new york right now. the airports are closed, everything's closed. it's freezing. >> susan milligan is a political writer with "u.s. news & world report" and president of the pro-hillary group, correct the record. i love that. just the facts, ma'am. you know, the pope is a strong force in the world. people, friends of mine who are jewish, not just the catholic church. he seems to have a moral authority and maybe now intellectual authority that we haven't seen on this issue. >> absolutely. first of all, we have to say from a historic standpoint here, its just so profound what he's saying. we have to pay attention though this earth while we're here. it's a gift from god. we have to take care of it. the pope has been a leader not just on this issue but on income inequality and trickle down economics. here you have the world leaders who can't get their act together on it and it's the pope stepping up saying we need to pay attention to this. it does create problems for some of the conservative candidates, christian right candidates who are using the church for their world view. >> look at jeb today. he's a catholic, of course. he reacted to the news at a town hall in new hampshire. here's jeb bush. >> i hope i'm not like going to get castigated for saying this by my priest back home, but i don't get economic policy from my bishops or my cardinals or from my pope. there are parts of miami that with a couple of inches, three or four or five inches of rising sea level could create huge problems. my attitude is i don't think the science is complete, but i do think we need to create long-term policies for adaptation. the climate is changing, whether men is doing it or not, in the case of the sea level rising in miami is kind of irrelevant. >> so what is his proposal for dealing with the sea level rising? gondolas? in other words, don't go to the cause but deal with the solution. so the water's coming up, so get boats and move around the city. >> we have boats and maybe use marco rubio. >> that's what he's saying. >> sometimes i think there are 25 people left in this country that don't believe in climate change. it's the koch brother, the head of the rnc. >> tell me this, how do you explain why the republicans as a party now don't believe in the science? why are they rejecting it? >> a couple things. the koch brothers are a huge influence. >> oil and gas. that's what they sell. fossil fuels is not what they want limited. >> exactly. they've sent a group over to the vatican to protest the pope. i mean, these are the koch brothers are fighting with the pope. the gop is fighting with the pope. the base of their party does not believe in this type of science. by the way, there are some in their party who don't believe in the science behind vaccines and they're playing to this crowd in the republican primary. >> you know what i'm talking about, a lot of the church, the stuff about sexual behavior, all about same-sex and abortion, it's not always about life, but about sexual discipline and behavior. this is a life issue, life on this planet. that's why the pope's involved in it. if conception -- if life begins with conception, how about human life begins on this planet? it's endangered over time. it's a legitimate concern of a moral leader. rush limbaugh is calling the pope a marxist for his views on climate change. >> every other word seems to be about how unfettered capitalism is destroying the world and how the rich countries have to give more money to the poor countries to make amends. i mean, that's -- call it what you want, marxism, socialism, what have you. >> rick santorum, a traditional catholic and the runner-up of the republican party race four years ago is criticizing the pope. santorum is calling global warming a hoax. >> i would just say this, that the church has gotten it wrong a few times on science, and i think that we probably are better off leaving science to the scientists and focusing on what we're really good at, which is theology and morality. >> well, that is a punch to the stomach, going back to the old medieval church. >> what's incredible about that comment is republicans don't want to listen to anyone. they don't want to listen to the pope. rick santorum says the church doesn't do science but they won't listen to scientists. 90% of scientists say man-made global warming exists. they won't listen to the scientists! it's extraordinary. >> when will democrats listen to the economists on trade? keep moving. >> they're suggesting that there's no moral component at all to either the economy or the environment, and that's really i think the fundamental problem here. >> republican senator jim inhofe, chairs the senate committee, he's perhaps the biggest science denier in the republican party. this february he brought a snowball on to the senate floor to disprove global warming. >> i asked the chair, you know what this is? it's a snowball. and just from outside here. so it's very, very cold out, very unseasonal. so therefore, catch this. mm-hmm. >> point made. he doesn't believe in man-made global warming because according to the bible, god controls the climate. >> my point is god's still up there. and the areas of people who think that we, human beings, would be able to change what he is doing in the climate is, to me, outrageous. >> kind of ayatollahish, going to religion on these questions and that point of view. >> they go to religion and then ignore the pope. they say we should let the science dictate. but then ignore the scientists. who they're listening to is the base of their party and the koch brothers. they sponsor an exhibit at the smithsonian -- >> you're like me, one of the people that really tries to understand politics as economics. almost everything is explicable. almost everything. i am a determinist. they should get a tax deduction for their campaign contributions because it's all in their interests. >> exactly right. >> thank you. mr. matthews says we can handle it. up next, new information about the man hunt for those two escaped killers. seriously, what do you think about these guys? 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ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. for a free 30-tablet trial go to cialis.com well, the manhunt for those two convicted killers who broke out of the new york state prison are now into its 11th day. according to a senior new york official authorities have received no solid intelligence over the past four days as to where they are. also today the husband of joyce mitchell, that prison worker who has been charged with helping the convicts escape, visited his wife in jail today. msnbc's adam riess joins us from new york. are they in that forest or have they given up there? >> reporter: we don't know. they're expanding their search to other areas around dannemora. there have been a thousand tips. 800 searchers are out here, but there hasn't been one solid lead. it looks like the trail has gone cold. >> that opens the question, could they have gotten away in those six hours before the prison authorities were alerted to their escape? could they have gotten a hitch somewhere? >> reporter: it's quite possible. we've learned that they haven't really set up the checkpoints until a period of time after they left. so it's quite possible they made their way out of the perimeter before all of these checkpoints were set up. >> we're looking at a guy right now on the stock film or the recent film here of a guy going way down into a hole. are they looking for them in holes? what are they doing? >> reporter: they're looking everywhere, chris. they're going through the forest, they've got dogs. they're talking to people inside the prison, corrections officers, people in the town. they're still going house to house. they're talking to residents. they're talking to everyone. they might be talking to people in canada, people in mexico, as far away as california. they say they're looking everywhere. nothing is out of the question. >> what about the meeting today between the prison worker who has been charged with helping them to escape and her husband? what do we know from that meeting? anything? >> reporter: despite allegations that she wanted him dead, her husband still supports her. he went and visited her. they met through a plexiglas window. she told her attorney she was actually happy to see him. she said that she's distraught, weepy, upset, remorseful that she's helped these two guys escape jail. >> what a story this is. thank you so much, msnbc's adam riess. up next, a republican presidential debate with the bombastic donald trump on the stage. wheat get to that next. is there such a thing as a sure thing in business? some say buy gold. others say buy soybeans. i say, buy comcast business internet. unlike internet providers that slow down when traffic picks up, you get speed you can rely on. it's a safe bet. like a gold-plated soybean. reliably fast internet starts at $69.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. there's been no crowd like this, and i can tell you some of the candidates they went in, they didn't know the air conditioner didn't work. they sweated like dogs. they didn't know the room was too big because they didn't have anybody there. how are they going to beat isis? i don't think it's going to happen. >> we're back. that was donald trump declaring his candidacy for president and making jokes about some of his gop rivals. republicans better get used to trump taking personal shots at them. just wait for those gop debates coming up in august. today was new exception. trump wasted no time going after jeb bush and marco rubio. here he goes. >> you looked at bush. it took him five days to answer the question on iraq. he couldn't answer the question. he didn't know. i said, is he intelligent? then i looked at rubio. he was unable to answer the question. is iraq a good thing or a bad thing? he didn't know. he couldn't answer the question. how are these people going to lead us? how are we going to go back and make it great again? we can't. they don't have a clue. they can't lead us. they can't. they can't even answer simple questions. it was terrible. >> looked pretty good there. trump didn't stop there. he continued his assault on jeb. here he goes. >> bush is totally in favor of common core. i don't see how he can possibly get the nomination. he's weak on immigration. he's in favor of common core. how the hell can you vote for this guy? you just can't do it. >> so what happens when donald trump actually gets on the stage with the rest of the crowded 2016 gop field and how his rivals respond to that? joining the roundtable tonight jonathan capehart with "the washington post," liz mair is a republican strategist and heidi przybyla is a reporter for bloomberg. let's start right down the line here. you throw this guy into the pool. the water splashes like mad and everybody gets swamped. nobody gets a lot of attention once he shows. >> when you have that many people on the stage no one's going to get a whole lot of attention. so the thinking will probably be get your soundbite in. donald trump, as we know from years of watching this guy, is a soundbite machine. so you take that plus i'm still not convinced the guy is -- we're going to be talking about him come january or february. >> let's talk august. >> august? >> if he's going to be there. >> no, he's going to be there. he's a guy who really doesn't care. so he'll say anything. >> suppose he goes from, say, seventh or eighth, where he is now, liz, and he does one of the ross perots and pops up to third. will he walk away when he's in contention? >> i have no idea what the ultimate game plan is here. my opinion is this is all a publicity stunt. >> even if he's doing well, he would quit? >> i don't know. what i will say with regard to the debates, if i were advising any of the candidates, i would tell them to work on the presumption that he's going to be there. make sure they've done their opposition research on everybody else on the stage including him and be ready to fire back at him. >> would you fire back? >> yes, i would. yes, i would. i would absolutely fire back. >> try the shake it off. >> you have to fire back. >> you have to. >> there's no one more happy about this than -- >> you can't let a guy knock your head off and act like it didn't happen. >> you have to respond. but the problem is, like liz says, they have to come in and do extra and says i'll steal your line. he's going to create some awkward moments. >> trump said all he hears is talk. isn't it funny? all he hears is talk from his republican rivals in the gop. here he is. >> i watched the speeches of these people and they say the sun will rise, the moon will set, all sorts of wonderful things will happen. and people are saying, what's going on? i just want a job. just get me a job. i don't need the rhetoric. i want a job. >> look, i have a theory about this guy. it's so simple. the average working guy out there male sees him as the wife, golden buildings, he's a comic figure, comic book figure. he has a lot of dash to him, splash to him. do you think people connect and say, maybe he can create jobs. seriously, any chance they'll see a connection? >> they might see a connection. but going back to the debate stage, if he does one of these zingers that hits a little too close to home, that is a little too rude, a little too over the line, he will fizzle. people like bite in candidates but they don't like the bite to go in so deep that it's offensive. >> right. >> and he said some things today that were offensive. >> called people losers. >> immigrants coming up, some of them are rapists. >> some of them are good, actually. >> some of them are good. >> he once said about george w. bush. he may not be the worst president in history but he's certainly the stupidest. he just says that stuff. what happens if jeb's standing there when he says that? my brother, you're talking about my brother. >> it will be an awkward moment and he'll probably just dismiss it elegantly and move on. but back to your point on the jobs argument. we are talking about a time in american history when there's no other issue that creates more anxiety in this country than job losses. here is the guy that actually patented the trademark on the phrase, "you're fired." >> president obama -- >> i think there are a lot of people out there who are just angry and pissed off and are probably going to be drawn to some of the rhetoric, but the firing back will be important because people have to shut that down. >> obama has speech writers. but if you have enough time to set up the artillery. president obama at the correspondents dinner a couple years ago. >> donald trump is here tonight. now, i know that he's taken some flak lately, but no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the donald. and that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter like did we fake the moon landing. what really happened in roswell? and where are biggie and tupac? >> that's like roosevelt in the speech. but it took time to get that ready, bring in the artillery, get jokes ready. roundtable staying with us. it is possible to identify yourself as black if you're white? we'll talk about that with our expert here. john has been writing about it. we'll talk about that and the interview with the woman, we'll show a bit of that, too. that said she was black. how do you get to the top of your game? give it everything you've got and leave those sticky sunscreens behind. new neutrogena cooldry sport. powerful protection designed to feel good. micromesh technology lets sweat pass through and evaporate so skin stays comfortable, while clinically proven protection keeps going strong. don't get stuck with a sticky sunscreen. stay protected and comfortable with every move. new cooldry sport. neutrogena. seriously? you're not at all concerned? about what now? oh, i don't know. the apocalypse? we're fine. i bundled renter's with my car insurance through progressive for just six bucks more a month. word. there's looters running wild out there. covered for theft. okay. that's a tidal wave of fire. covered for fire. what, what? all right. fine. i'm gonna get something to eat. the boy's kind of a drama queen. just wait. where's my burrito? [ chuckles ] worst apocalypse ever. protecting you till the end. now, that's progressive. turns out hillary clinton's leading the pack on social media, too. facebook has released a snapshot of how its users are reacting on the day the 2016 candidates made their announcements. when clinton announced she had nearly 5 million unique facebook users share more than 10 million interactions on the popular social media site. and that's about double the second place candidate ted cruz. and it's ten times what jeb bush had when he announced his campaign just yesterday. we're back with the we're back with the roundtable. jonathan, liz and heidi. civil rights activist rachel dolezal resigned yesterday as the chapter president of the naacp in spokane after she was accused of being dishonest and deceptive with her identity. it began when she was asked this question -- >> are you african-american? >> i don't -- i don't understand the question. >> are your parents, are they white? >> according to her parents, rachel dolezal is a white -- is white but had been presenting herself since 2007 as an african-american. further scrutiny revealed she had identified an african-american man as her father on facebook, and she had invented stories about her childhood. her claims have sparked outrage across the country, but she's now speaking out to try to identify why she identifies with a different race. here is what she said to say in an interview. >> from a very young age, felt a -- a spiritual, visceral, just very instinctual connection with black is beautiful, you know, just the black experience and wanting to celebrate that. and i didn't know -- how to articulate that as a young child, kindergarten or whatever. you don't have words for what's going on. but certainly that was -- that was -- i mean, i was socially conditioned to not own that and to be -- be limited to -- to whatever biological identity was thrust upon me. >> jonathan, you've been talking on this, you've been writing about it, i want to hear what you think. >> look, had rachel dolezal simply said, yes, i identify with that connection, i feel a connection to that community, that would have been great. if she had done that and not fabricated her own life stole, if she had just said i identify as black, yes -- >> what does that mean, identify as black? >> someone who identifies with the culture, who identifies with the people, who feel strongly not just here, but here. >> what about the make up and the hair and all this, this effort to look black? is that all right with you? >> that's fine with me, too, if that's what she wants to do, if that's how she wants to express her black identity as she sees it, fine. >> has anybody else ever done this that you know of? >> not that i know of. but my problem here is her entire story is fabricated. she said she lived in a teepee and she had to hunt with bowes and arrows for their food. not true. she put a picture of an african-american man, herself with an african-american man on the naacp facebook page says this is my dad, he's going to come to the event. that's not her father. she made stories up. that's why i think so many black people around the country are angry. you don't have to be -- you don't have to be black to run an naacp chapter. >> what's your -- >> the part, jonathan, this i'm hearing also from african-american women is it's not just a lie, but it's a lie that's basically parachuting into this identity of being a black at a point where it's beneficial for her, furthers her career, without having actually lived the black experience, going through the discrimination and the barriers -- >> but it's based on african ya studies. she wants to engage and join that culture. liz. >> i just can't get over the weirdness of this story overall. i keep trying to think of something really intelligent and meaningful to say about this and i just think this lady is nuts and -- >> well, you know -- >> and i just hope what this doesn't do is have this story detract from my meaningful work that she was doing. because some of my african-american friends have expressed a little bit of worry about that to me. but the whole thing just strikes me as completely awful. >> she can reboot if she wants to. she was asked whether she's a con artist. that's a tough question. here is what she said. >> are you a con artist? >> i don't think so. you know? i don't think anything that i have done with regards to the movement, my work, my life, my identity, i mean, it's all been very thoughtful and careful. sometimes decisions have been made for survival reasons or to protect people that i love. >> you know what this sparks to me? my long -- maybe not profound, but to me interesting question about the influence of african-americans on white americans, over all these hundreds of years and how it has affected our culture. we're different than europeans. because i think this experience among us, between us, has been very powerful. and somebody is going to write something brilliant about this some day. it's not just hip hop music or jazz even or anything like that. it's what's more profound, i think. >> well, yeah, because african-americans are in the bedrock of this nation. >> right. >> that's why. but that's why i think rachel dolezal, though, takes that to an extreme in her appearance. but, again, i keep going back to her fabrication of her own history, her own story is what thrusts her into the national conversation. if she is just -- if she had just done everything she's done with the exception of lying about her history, with wouldn't even know her name. >> rachel dolezal's interview is coming next next with all in with chris hayes. i'm going to talk about donald trump as a presidential candidate, as well. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. announcer ] take zzzquil and sleep like... the kids went to nana's house... for the whole weekend! [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] zzzquil, the non habit forming sleep aid that helps you sleep easily and wake refreshed. because sleep is a beautiful thing. let me finish tonight with this. in the fall of 2008 in the last days of that year's presidential campaign, candidate barack obama spoke in a rough african-american neighborhood in north philadelphia. i know the neighborhood well. this area has not yet gotten itself off the ground. and what was candidate obama's greatest applause line when speaking to this audience? it came when he spoke not of greater government benefits or anything of that kind. the crowd went into something near ecstasy when he spoke about the need to lead a united america. i dare never to speak for african-americans, but one thing that i've discovered is the longing by this community to be accepted as full americans. 100% americans, not separate but equal, but as much all american as others. lebron james, for example, being as much recognized as an all-american type as tom brady. it's this entire to be seen at 100% american, not 80% or in some other category. the deal like barack obama seemed to answer which is the reason why i have found despicable the attempts by some knowing it's not true that our president is some african-american trying to pretend he's one of us, some foul malignancy offering himself up a as all-american. why do i find it despicable? that barack obama's americanness cuts to the very heart of what this country has promised african-americans and some still find too hard to deliver. a full embrace as not just equal, but fellow citizens embraced as compatriots. today, the man who pushed that that the president is not a legitimate claim in his office offered himself up as a presidential candidate. donald trump now presents himself for us to consider as his successor. i can only say this. having been taught to hate the sin and not the sinner, you must, therefore, taking seriously mr. trump's short-term commitment to this contest await the sinner's repentance. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> they don't know me. they really don't know what i've actually walked through and how hard it is. >> rachel dolezal breaks her silence and our own melissa harris-perry asks the questions everyone wants to know. >> are you black? do you consider yourself a con artist? plus, donald trump rides his own golden escalator to the 2016 stage. >> i'm really rich. i'll show you that next time. >> it was a presidential announcement that needs to be seen to be believed. >> i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. we will have full analysis of trump's political theater.