committee. and former prosecutor and host of the justice matters podcast and matt dowd. glen and matt are msnbc contributors. great to have all four of you with us. talk to us about your reporting and what you ve learned throughout the gathering of all this information about what happens next and the way this process stands as of right now. i think one important thing is what the vice president has asked for which is for the court to prevent some of his testimony does not include everything that the special counsel is likely to ask. we don t know what happened in that hearing yet. it is likely that mike pence will have to go before the grand jury and basically a presidential election season. he is not a candidate yet. he certainly seems to be moving in that direction. what he s claiming is the clause protects members of the
certifying it and passing it on to the federal government, then his truthful testimony would not incriminate him. he d have no reason to plead the fifth and he can testify and frankly become one of the most sharply incriminating witnesses against his former client donald trump. so even though the grand jury proceedings are secret so we may not know these things right away, i suspect we ll know them before too long. all right. former congresswoman elaine loria and michael sheerer, thank you. stick around. when we come back, the house gop s courting of extremists continues a meeting today involving the speaker of the house is raising a lot of eyebrows. we ll talk about that. plus, the contrast between the ex-president and the current one could not be bigger right now. president biden is talking about the issues, donald trump desperately trying to spin his potential indictment to his advantage. later on in the program, bipartisan backlash. a post by the michigan republican party compari
to me it means we have to take that step back from being hand in glove with the defense. a reminder that senator murkowski is on our list of key senators to watch in the weeks to come. she s not up for reelection until 2022 but she has been known to break from party lines before including voting against brett kavanaugh the supreme court nominee. cnn s lauren fox and tamara keith. and from west palm beach, florida, michael sheerer with new york times. let s talk a little bit about murkowski. she can raise concerns about the process but ultimately the key question is how does she vote, how does she vote on compelling witnesses to come testify. does she vote against any sort of rule that does not have a deal or witnesses and documents. how does she vote on acquit tall. she also criticized house democrats in her statement.
just say the yes is full. you don t have to approve them. it was a striking moment that underscored everything else in the story, which is that, you know, administration officials were constantly having to kind of walk the president back from the precipice. walk him back from the edge of what could be a crisis, whether it s the actually closing the border, which they got, you know, republicans and business types and others to say this would destroy the economy, or whether it s legally saying to people he works for you can t do that. it s fascinating. incredible reporting i look forward to the book. thank you so much julie hirschfield, michael sheerer. look forward to it process. with capitol participating a surprise amazes from the state department inspector general. we talked with two advisers on what their take is concerning what happens next. rizi. things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free to bare my skin yeah that s all me.
more breaking news. exclusive report in the new york times documenting the lengths to which sources say president trump was prepared to go to stop mierpgts crossing the southern border. just a few of the remarkable details the white house insiders told the new york times, the president they say wanted a water-filled trench filled with armgts or snakes constructed as a barrier in addition to the wall. and apparently talked about it so much that white house personnel actually went and tried to price it out pl also suggest nag rgt migrants be shot in the legs to slow them down or stop them. the story is incredible fascinating. the details remarkably reported to the new york times to julie davis and michael sheerer it s the book out october 8th.