about that day? >> again, nausea worthy. it's despicable. and it's really cynical because paul uses this to fund raise. and i think that's, actually, probably, one of the most sickening qualities is that, not only is this something that is delusional and it's criminal. if his involvement is with whatever reports that i've seen and read. that's true, then he is absolutely a part of organizing this insurrection and should be held criminally accountable for it. but he uses that beyond that, pamela, to fund raise and i find that even more despicable and disgusting. >> i mean, you would -- you could call that shameless. is that a quality that you saw in your brother, growing up? >> no, but i've certainly seen it since he started running for office in 2010. to start your campaign work aligning yourself with joe arpaio and s.b. 1070.