can to ensure the safety, well- being, the future of you, and your families. i want to mention for a moment families. families are always in a difficult spot. maybe the most difficult spot. they are dealing with a lot of uncontrollable's. .e're doing our job that consumes us. that is good. but the families have a tough time. it is important for you to know that i'm committed to assuring that every person in the department of defense associated with the department of the defense is treated fairly, honestly, equal benefits, everything that each of you do should be dealt with on a fair and equal basis. no discrimination anywhere in any way. i have always lead that america asked role in the world is one that we have had variations of. it is one that should engage the world. we cannot dictate to the world, but we must engage in the world. we must lead with our allies. allies are important. no nation can do any of this a long. -- a loan. we need continue building strong relationships -- no nation can do any of this alone. we need to continue building strong relationships. bob gates and man panetta have done this. -- and leon panetta have done this. teamwork with allies. we renewed old alliances and we reach out and find new alliances. there will be differences. we have great power. how we apply that power is important. that engagement in the world should be done wisely. the resources that we employ on behalf of our country and allies should always be applied wisely. the world looks to america for leadership. it is interesting when you look at the turbulence that we are going through in this country. the one institution that still maintains astounding credibility and competent in this country is this institution, the military and all its associates. there are polls taken every year. the military is up your. there is a reason -- the military is up here. there is a reason. you earn confidence and trust. it does not given away, nor should it be given away. you have done that through your sacrifices. we do not want to squander that. we can use that to rebuild all of the necessary institutions we have to deal with in our country and in the world. the world can look to this institution as one that they can have confidence in and trust. i will do everything within my power to continue to build on what secretary panetta and gates have begun to build and which you are all beginning to build. as i said in another meeting, leadership is 18 business. - - is a team business. everyone plays a role. this morning after i was sworn in and spent some time at the 9/11 memorial at the chapel, i reflected a bit on what happened on that day in 2001. i was on capitol hill at the time. everyone in this room are members where you were. at 9:37 a.m. on september 11, 2001. i remember where i was. , thatrch hill's words was a jarring event. the dynamicsion that we are living in today. when you go back to almost 22 years ago, as chairman dempsey noted in a meeting, 22 years ago tomorrow, the end of desert storm. if you take those two events and start charting this, you start to see a picture emerge of different kinds of threats, new threats. there will be more new threats. it gives you some guy mention -- dimension. not that any of us are smart enough to figure it all out, but it gives us some guy mention of what is going on -- dimension what is going on in the world. what we are all dealing with, the dollar is coming down, but it is the uncertainty of the commitments of what is ahead. people are the most important resource of any institution. you know that. you take care of your people. take care of people first. you have done a tremendous job of that. that is why this institution is highly valued and trusted by the american people. you take care of your people. i will do everything within my power as secretary of defense to be worthy of you. i want to be worthy of this country and do everything i can to make sure people are taking care of. one of the proudest times in my years in the u.s. senate is when a former vietnam friend spent a little time. . i was proud of the g.i. bill because we were able to get to world war ii veterans, jim webb and chuck hagel, we got together and we got the boat and passed the bill. that is the way things should work or this country. the objective was not to get jim webb or chuck hagel any credit. the inductive was to do something for the country, -- the objective was to do something for the country on the do something for the people. this kind of attention, this kind of recognition -- much of my life has been about doing everything i can in some way to help veterans and their families, whether it was a program or whatever it was. i'm proud of that. i'm more proud of that than anything else i have been involved in. i'm proud of my background and my career, like all of you are. nothing makes me prouder or has ever made me prouder. to each of you in this room, as of you who are watching this around the world, i say to you, thank you. thank you to you for your service and sacrifices. i will do everything i can. i look forward to working with you. you will always know that you have a secretary of defense that will be straight with you. i will be honest and direct. i will expect the same from you. i will never ask anyone to do anything i would not do. i will not ask anyone to do more than i would do. i would not be worthy if that was not the case. again, thank you for this tremendous opportunity. i'm very proud to be on your team. now, i have got to go to work. [laughter] thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> on the next "washington journal" the automatic spending cuts with matt salmon. plus, your e-mails, tweets, and phone calls. "washington journal" live at 7 a.m. eastern here on c-span. >> i think that eisenhower handled crises so well. he was a very decisive man. people think of him as his grandfatherly president man with a winning smile. behind that smile were some veryi icy blue eyes. when he looked at the crisis, he looked at it very coldly. he made a decision that did not have the liabilities that some decisions have. he never made an emotional decision. he was an emotional man, but he never allowed his emotions to control him in a big decision had to be made. >> richard nixon reflects on his years as vice president to eisenhower. hard of american history tv's oral histories. sunday -- part of american histories.s oral sunday at 3 p.m. eastern on c- span. >> committee members heard testimony from the father of a child killed in the newtown, connecticut school shooting and from law enforcement officials and gun rights attorneys. this is three-and-a-half hours. >> i am going to call this hearing to order. i want to begin by welcoming our witnesses and also the people who are interested in this subject and has taken the time to be here. it is very much appreciated. the process will be this -- i will make a statement. senator grassley will make a statement. we will then go to our first two witnesses and then the second panel. we will ask witnesses to confine the remarks as much as they can to five minutes or so. the committee will follow the early bird rule, which is first come, we will call on them first to ask questions. afterwards, in five-minute rounds. i will begin with my statement. on december 14, 26 parents received a called no parent ever wants to receive. they would never see their son or daughter again. earlier that day, a deranged killer wielding an assault weapon and armed with a high- capacity ammunition magazine, he shocked his way into the sandy hook elementary school in newtown. he unleashed a rapid hail of bullets. he killed 20 young children, mostly six-year-olds and six brave administrators in a handful of minutes that it took for law enforcement to respond to the scene. that event shocked the nation to its roots. the pictures of these little victims brought tears to the eyes of millions of americans. today's hearing because the massacre in newtown was sadly not an anomaly. from the 1966 shooting rampage at the university of texas to the newtown massacre, we have witnessed an increasing number of these mass killings. since 1982, there have been at least 62 mass shootings across the united states. they have been accelerating and yeast an in recent years. 7 took place in 2012. running through these mass shootings in recent years, from aurora, colorado, to tucson, arizona, to blacksburg, virginia, it was that military- style semi automatic weapons or a large capacity ammunition magazine that committed unspeakable terror. we have witnessed today victims of the shootings in newtown, aurora, and virginia tech. with the victims of gun violence in this room, please stand for a moment in this room. thank you. we appreciate it. we also have with us a law- enforcement officers from around the country who had traveled here to support our efforts to ban these military style assault weapons, including the chief of police from arizona, northridge, california, colorado, georgia, illinois, massachusetts, baltimore, maryland, new orleans, oklahoma, oregon, pennsylvania, virginia, the university of central florida, and of dickinson and nathaniel colleges, and the leaders of the state police in new york and rhode island. with these and other law enforcement officers here today please stand and be recognized. thank you very much. we cannot allow the carnage i have described to continue without taking action on what is a serious matter of public policy. that is why i have joined with many of my colleagues. senator schumer, senator durbin, senator whitehouse, senator blumenthal, as well as many others off the committee introduced legislation to prohibit the sale, transfer, many factual, and importation of assault weapons and high- capacity magazines. as the members of this committee know, we in acted a ban on assault weapons and high- capacity magazines, which i authored in the senate and senator schumer sponsored in the house in 1994. unfortunately, that law had a 10 year expiration. congress failed to renew it when it expired in 2004. since the ban expired, many people have been killed with assault weapons. over 450 have been wounded. they're more lethal today than they were in 2004. let me give you an example. you can watch this on the screen. you can buy a bump fire stock legally. you insert it into an a are 16 or other assault rifle . this is legal. it does not cosmetic. it allows a semi automatic firearm to be fired quickly as a fully automatic shotgun. excuse me, machine gun. which has been banned for decades. there is the slide. [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang, bang, bang, bang] >> you can see the slide working as it mimics an automatic weapon. it has the versatility for the high fire rates. [bang, bang, bang, bang] that is legal today. since the newtown massacre, several states, including california -- [bang, bang, bang, bang] since the newtown massacre, several states, including california, delaware, maryland, and new york have shown leadership in moving to ban assault weapons or strengthen existing bans. even so, the need for a common ban has never been greater. telephone your law enforcement tells me that -- california law enforcement tells me that some criminals continue to acquire the guns from neighboring states like every zone of, where they are unregulated. -- like arizona, where they are unregulated. in the last 10 years, nine percent of the crime guns in the city of chicago could be traced to the state of mississippi. it is clear that we need a national solution. let me describe briefly that key features of this new legislation of assault weapons ban a 2013. the bill and the sale, transfer, and importation and manufacturing of 167 specifically named semi automatic assault weapons. it bans any other assault weapon, which is defined as semi automatic that can have a detachable 90s in. -- magazine. these features were developed for military weapons to make them more affect the of and efficient at killing people in close combat situations. the bill prohibits large capacity ammunition devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds. this is a crucial part of this legislation. these large magazines make a gun especially dangerous because they allow a shooter to fire 100 rounds are more without having to pause to reload. in many instances like the tragic shooting of congresswoman gabrielle giffords and tucson, arizona, it was only when the shooter had to change a magazine when or others have the chance to take the shooter down. the bill protects the rights of legitimate gun owners. it will not affect hunting or sporting firearms. the bill protects legitimate hunters by specifically excluding over 2000 specificly named by make and model firearms used for hunting or sporting purposes. second, the bill will not ache away any weapons -- take away any weapons that our own today. anyone who says otherwise is simply trying to deceive you. finally, it would ban the future sale or transfer of these magazines, including the manufacturing, implementation, or possession. let me address for a moment the charge that the assault weapons ban such as this are unconstitutional. the original federal assault weapons ban and it was challenged repeatedly on every grounds the opponents to come up with, including the second amendment, the ninth amendment, the commerce clause, the due process clause, equal protection, and being a bill of the chamber. each and every time these challenges were rejected and the ban was upheld, including by the fourth, 6, 9, and d.c. circuit. the supreme court subsequently recognizes the individual rights to gun ownership in the district of columbia. however, that decision clearly stated, "the right secured by the second amendment is not unlimited." justice scalia, the author of that opinion, wrote that quote. state assault weapons ban's in california and the district of columbia have been upheld as consistent with the second amendment in people v james and howard the district of columbia. the assault weapons ban of 2013 has received the endorsement of major law enforcement organizations, including major the major cities chief of police. i'm please that this legislation is endorsed by the conference of mayors, mayors for gun control, and other groups of officials. without objection, i will place the list of endorsements on the record. i yield to senator grassley for his opening remarks. >> i ask for the committee's approval for my remarks. >> so ordered. >> madam chairwoman, thank you for holding today's hearings. the tragedy at the newtown has caused all of us to ask, what has happened in our society to bring about that tragedy and a lot of other similar tragedies? we are shocked and horrified by the murder of innocent children. we sympathize with the victims and their families. from one of our witnesses today , i want to express my personal and deep sympathies for your loss and your neighbors. thank you for sharing your pain. we do not want anything like this to happen again. we want to take effective action to prevent future catastrophes. we can make the world safer for people on the streets, safer for .hildren in schools society has become less civil. videogames ought to be a deep concern. health services are not always up to our. -- up to par. we have heard testimony that hundreds of thousands of mentally ill people in arizona, people who are not legally allowed to own weapons, have not been provided for inclusion in that database. an incomplete database that fails to conform to existing law does not provide all of the safety that american people have a right to expect. existing prohibitions on gun possessions are not enforced as much as they should be. there is much that can be done to enhance safety. i respect senator feinstein's view on this issue. i know that your views are very sincere. the interest that you have in banning assault weapons is a very consistent decision you have taken over the past years. i happen to have a different view. some guns are based on their features. others have nothing to do with the functioning of the weapons. as a result, the bill would inflect less severe wounds than others that are exempt. such arbitrary distinctions in the fact that these weapons are commonly used her self-defense raise constitutional restaurants under the second amendment. -- questions under the second amendment. there are occasions when people think congress should pass a new law. the idea is that supporters can be might have a solution to a problem. this is not the case with assault weapons ban. congress passed such a law in 1994. it was on the books for 10 years. at the end of those 10 years, the university of pennsylvania researchers concluded that, " they cannot credit the ban with any of that nation's recent drops in gun violence." the study of the center of disease control and the national research council all cooso not determine the effectiveness of the ban. " a complete elimination of assault weapons would not have a large impact on homicide." a justice official wrote in the same document that because theft and straw purchasers are the largest source of crime guns, universal background checks would likely shift defenders to death and straw -- theft and shop purchases --s purchases. straw the assault weapons ban did not prevent the earlier school shooting at colombo nine. i will -- at columbine. officer young as a child, survived a shooting and california. students were shocket. when somebody has been tried and not found to work, -- when something has been tried and not bound to work, we should try a new approach. there are vast numbers of gun control laws in the country. criminals do not obey them. law-abiding citizens do. that tips the scale in favor of criminals who use guns. if weapons bans were affected, homicide rates would be down. law enforcement is poorly enforcing current gun laws. in fact, the u.s. attorney's office for the northern district of illinois, only 25 federal firearms cases were brought to that office in 2011. only 1% of the people, 62 out of over 4000 were denied guns based on background checks are prosecuted for illegally attempting to acquire firearms. a rate.too lowof ofa ra see what can be done by enforcing the law on the books before enforcing new ones. we will legislate in a area that deals with the issue of reporting to the database for the people who are not in there now. make sure that we deal with the mental health issues that are involved with the tragedies that we are talking about today and a lot of other tragedies that have happened. thank you. >> thank you, senator. will the witnesses please stand? affirmed the oath as i complete the reading. do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god? >> yes. >> thank you. i will introduce the two witnesses from this panel. the first is john walsh, u.s. attorney. he has served for u.s. attorney in colorado since august of 2010 after he was unanimously confirmed by the senate. as u.s. attorney, he is responsible for supervising and coordinating the federal investigation of the mass shootings at a movie theater in aurora, colorado. as is becoming u.s. attorney, dash before becoming u.s. attorney, mr. walsh was a member of a law firm and partner in a law firm. early in his career, he served as chief of the major fraud section of the u.s. attorney office in los angeles, supervising 35 assistance, u.s. attorneys, prosecuting white- collar offenses. i will also introduce chief edward flynn. he has a long career of leadership in public safety. he has been the chief of the milwaukee police department since 2008. he commands an agency of 2000 sworn in officers and 700 civilians. previously he served as secretary of public safety in massachusetts under governor mitt romney. oversaw the massachusetts date police and the department of corrections. he has also served as chief of police in springfield and chelsea, massachusetts, and in arlington, virginia. he is a member of the police executive research forum. he is a member of harvard, connecticut school of leasing. -- policing. if the two of you will go ahead . keep the remarks to five minutes so there is an opportunity for questioning. [inaudible] >> could you activate the might ? there is a button right there. >> it is a privilege to present the views of the department of justice on the need to protect american public right eliminating -- by -- reasonable limitations on these weapons are supported by a majority of americans. the department does not yet have a decision on any particular legislation in this area, we are confident the band to be implemented in a way that protects the public without inter-hearing with the rights of law-abiding citizens. i'm behalf of the department of justice, thank you, senator feinstein, for your efforts to address the plague of gun violence in our country. colorado has a history in frontier positions of gun ownership and respect to the second amendment. at the same time, colorado residents have witnessed gun tragedy on a scale we've never could have imagined. it has been shaken by this senseless mass shooting at the colombo and in 1999 and the most recent in our aurora in 2012. also the chilling event in tucson,, newtown, and other communities. these events remind us that individuals who are intent on inflicting mass casualties have ready access to the tools that they need to inflict maximum damage in a matter of moments, even seconds. military-style weapons can hold 20, dirty, or 100 rounds -- -- 30, or 100 rounds of magazines. these are properly subject to reasonable legislation under the second amendment. as a longtime federal prosecutor and now sitting u.s. attorney, shutting off the floor ow of hi- capacity magazines is a top safety priority. it has to be coupled with other measures. continue aggressive enforcement of existing firearms laws, new every car universal background checks on private firearm transfers, enhance back rent checks on those who are properly prohibited from acquiring weapons, such as people with felonies or domestic violence or mental illness. the power and the rate of fire and deficiencies of these fires are the reasons that they have become weapons of choice for gangs and drug trafficking organizations. we also must eliminate the ability of shooters to inflict massive numbers of fatalities in a matter of minutes through the use of high-capacity magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds. it can turn any weapon into a true will of massive violence, even a handgun. the shootings at virginia tech, tucson, arizona, all involved handguns using magazines with more than 10 rounds. high-capacity high-capacity magazines is not required for defending one's home or sports shooting. it enables shooters to inflict maximum damage on humans. forcing such a person to stop and reload can save lives. that was the case in tucson, arizona when a 30-round magazine ran out and he had to reload. he was tackled. i go to bed every night wondering whether i will be awakened by another dawn call which notified me of the horrifying mass shooting in aurora, or whether i will receive calls from other u.s. attorneys from around the country confronting the same sort of event in their own home state. i'm proud to serve as a u.s. attorney for colorado. it is the state i grew up in. it proudly honors american institutions, including the ownership of firearms as guaranteed by the second amendment. i also share the view of most law enforcement professionals and ordinary americans that there should be reasonable proposals to restrict the sale of military style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. it is needed to protect the american people. i urge the committee to act. thank you. >> thank you. chief flynn. >> thank you for the opportunity to testify today. the international association of the chief of police, major city chiefs associations, all have proposals regarding firearms violence general and assault weapons. as an act of member of these organizations, it takes collective wisdom of the chief law enforcement executives in the country. i have been an officer for many years. i have had the opportunity to lead law enforcement agencies in three states for the past 25 years. among the most difficult challenges i continue to face is the firearms violence that occurs in our neighborhoods. assault weapons are not built for sports. assault weapons are built to inflict violence against humans. it is not cosmetic in nature. these weapons are designed for combat. they are designed do it quickly and efficiently. in 2012, milwaukee police officers investigated 435 nonfatal shootings. we confirm that rifles were used in 185 crimes in the last year. in 2010, we uncovered assault rifles from the streets of milwaukee. in 2011, firearms were the number one cause of death of police officers killed in the line of duty. seven of my officers were shot with assault rifles or semi- automatic-- summiemi- pistols. the mass murders we hear about are horrifying. we must recognize that our enduring slow our mass murders every single year. life or, 2008 in the city of milwaukee, three suspects fired into a crowd of 100 e-book. two of the suspects shot bullets, leaving four missing people dead in that street. a 12-year-old girl was playing in front of her house when shots were fired from a semi-automatic pistol. a few weeks ago, criminals fired high caliber rounds into a duplex. the rounds penetrated the interior walls, furniture, and a seven-year-old child. the notion that innocent, law- abiding citizens will use an assault weapon for high-capacity firearms to protect themselves is not out of experience. the victims of such homicides in the walkie are typically career criminals. and he seven percent of suspects and 82% of victims have criminal history. our experience indicates that a vast majority of our home invasion victims are drug dealers. they do not need semi automatic rifles to protect themselves. this second amendment, like every constitutional right, is subject to reasonable restrictions and regulations. in 2008, the supreme court ruled that the second amendment protects an individual's right to own a firearm. the right secured by the second amendment is not unlimited. our system is designed to protect individual rights and the rights of the communities. this is not an impossible feat. these are not mutually exclusive rights. we have an obligation to protect both. this does not take guns out of the hands of americans. it disaster them of their rights. -- it does not strip them of their rights. it has more to do with commerce than the second amendment. a lot of people make a lot of money selling firearms and ammunition. it can tempt us to search for and grab onto false logic. the build being discussed today is as readable restrictions on future sales of certain types of firearms and magazines. it recognizes the distinction between hunting rifles and assault weapons. it allows for the sale and transfer of grandfathered weapons after a commonsense act wrong -- and background check is completed. it prevents the preventable. it is time for congress to pick a side. this time i hope it is law enforcement. >> thank you, chief. for questions, i have one question. this question is on columbine. i would like to ask it of that u.s. attorney is in here today. two students were murdered, mr. walsh. excuse me, two students murdered and her team were injured. the gun man used an assault pistol did it would be been by this legislation. the national rifle association has said the solution is to have armed security guards at every school. as you may know, there were two armed deputy sheriffs at columbine. did they succeed at stopping the tragedy? did they try? what happened? >> with respect to columbine, obviously the armed guards who were present that they were not able to prevent the terrible tragedy that took place. i would note that the president's proposal of important gun control and gun violence control initiatives does include a portion that gives local schools the option and the hopefully the funding to have community resource officers present in the school. that is something that individual schools might choose. it is fair to say that our experience is that armed guards is not sufficient to prevent the kinds of things we have seen. >> thank you. chief, could you comment on that as well just g? >> having armed security president is essential, but there are no guarantees. especially for cities like milwaukee. we have a hard enough time keeping the police department the strength it is in. i do not know who will pay for the armed guards. perhaps someone will come up with a grant program to do it. it is an extraordinary cost and it is no guarantee. if they are around the wrong corner, violence can break out. i have an armed guard in a school picking up a fist fight between two sophomores. every piece of security we engage in can be helpful, but it is foolish to think that a link security is what we need. the great challenge is to prevent the challenge -- the tragedies. and after prevention is making it difficult for people to outgun the police. make it difficult for people to bring assault weapons to school. that should not be easy. any amount of armed guards will isoutgunned by someone wilho armed with an assault weapon. if we ignore doing something about weapons that enable people to slaughter folks many a time, we are not dealing with the root of the problem. >> thank you. senator grassley. >> thank you each of you for your testimony. i want to start with mr. walsh. the last u.s. attorney to testify before the constitution subcommittee stated that the department supported assault weapons legislation "and we'll work to ensure that whatever comes out, it is constitutional ." the committee is set to mark up a bill tomorrow. what has the department done in the interim to work with senator feinstein to ensure that legislation is constitutional and has the department conducted any formal review of the constitutionality of the bill? >> if i could start off, the department strongly supports the goals of senator feinstein's bill to enact in assault weapons ban and high-capacity magazines. it can be crafted and the affected and applies with the second amendment. as i sit here today, there have been communications back and forth. they can assist in working through the provisions. i'm not aware of a formal opinion of the constitutional of the proposal that is before the committee at this time. >> when he testified before the subcommittee, he said that he was "not familiar enough with the heller piñon to give an nion to give an ni opionnion." i hope you are more prepared than he was. have you read heller? and you tell us what level of scrutiny that is most the supreme court decision would apply to an assault weapons ban? >> first of all, i have read the heller opinion. i want to be careful. the department has not issued a formal opinion on the constitutionality of that particular legislation. having said that, the important thing to keep in mind for the midi with respect -- committe e thresholdee-part that justice scalia and the heller opinion articulate. whether the weapon is a dangerous and unusual weapon of the kind that is traditionally been regulated and accepted. finally, whether the legislation under consideration in some manner impacts the core of the second amendment right, and that is the self defense right. look at each of those three threshold. it is fair to say that an assault weapons ban can be crafted successfully. it is something that i am certain that we will continue to work with the committee and senator feinstein in the course of this. i have great confidence that we can come up with effective bands that do not infringe on those rights. >> to this point, you do not know if this legislation meets that gecko -- meets that? >> we are confident we will be able to craft specific legislation that does comply. i'm certain that the president would not sign a bill that he did not believe was in accordance with -- >> the ar-15 is in common use. over 4 million are in use today. >> there are quite a fewar-15's in use today -- a few ar-15's used uised today. you could have a discussion on whether it is a common weapon these days. that is an issue that has to be discussed down the road. >> let's look at it from another standpoint. is it dangerous and unusual? >> it is dangerous. the concern of the department's on this is that it is very dangerous. >> how about the level of scrutiny that we are applying to the limitation of high magazine capacity g? >> it is the same three-part test. it focuses on the unusual component first. when you see a magazine of the size we have seen in many mass shootings -- the 100 round magazine that was used in aurora of july 2012, it is difficult to see how anyone could believe that is not a dangerous device when coupled with an assault weapon like an ar-15. i went to be careful about this and only speak to what is in the public record. there is a pending criminal prosecution. what we saw in aurora is that in the short amount of time in which the shorter -- shooter was shooting, 12 people died. 10 died from wounds inflicted from the assault weapon. one died from shotgun wounds and one was hit. the dangers of a high-capacity 100 round clip is hard to deny. >> thank you. senator durbin. >> thank you. let me start by thanking you. have been under a lot of heat for your leadership on this issue for a long time. we have endured so many tragedies. newtown is the most recent. it is an indication that your early inclination toward restricting and regulating the use of these weapons was certainly necessary to keep america safe. let me address mr. walsh for a moment. it is clear in the heller decision that what the court found to be the core purpose of the second amendment was individual self-defense. restrictions in heller on high- capacity magazines of assault weapons do not effectively disarm individuals is essentially affect their ability to defend themselves. the second amendment does not prevent lawmakers from enacting reasonable regulations that do not interfere with the core right guaranteed by the constitution. it comes to this point -- that man stood in that theater in aurora, colorado, are they magazine capacity of 100 rounds and using this assault weapon to kill as many people as possible. fortunately, it jammed, as i understand it should it stop him from his brutal purpose. i guess the question that is raised is whether are not it is constitutionally protected right under the second amendment for someone to own and use a gun with a capacity to kill. what is your conclusion yet n?ougm >> may have been careful to ensure that we are taking into account the decisions in heller and mcdonald by the supreme court. in addressing those two cases and looking at the scope of the retractions afforded by the second amendment, there clearly is room for reasonable regulation, particularly dangerous and unusual weapons. it is fair to say that the department believes that limitations on high-capacity magazines, anything over 10 rounds would be constitutional based on that amount. >> let me ask you this second part. you have gone through tragedy after tragedy in the city of chicago with gun violence. i have met with many families. i cannot tell you how many. they have lost innocent children to gun violence. there have been some sense of it continuing. it troubles and angers me. especially when these are dismissed as a failure of law enforcement. there are adequate laws in the books. enforce the laws. these things would not happen. take the issue of straw purchasing. how many federal prosecutions there were of a legend straw purchasers? how many prosecutions were there, both state, local, and federal? in many instances, federal prosecutors and state prosecutors are saying, you have a better chance to convict at the state level with a more meaningful penalty. let me bring that back home to you, the u.s. attorney office. when there is a potential prosecution for an obvious straw purchaser, what goes through your mind? >> if i may, i would like to emphasize something that you commented on. our work has to be in close corporation with states and local police and state and local prosecutors as well. we need to work as a team. we have a gun violence. that gives us opportunity to choose in cooperation to decide where the charges are pressed -- are best brought and a meaningful sentence might be sound. in the spring of 2011, in aurora by coincidence, there were officer shootings. there was great concern that we were about to embark on a summer of violence, so to speak. with other chiefs in the metropolitan areas, we convened a group of law enforcement folks, atf included, and enacted a summer initiative aimed at aggressively reaching out and arresting felons and other criminals who were attempting to get the guns or were trying to buy them. there were a total of 85 criminal prosecutions and convictions. they were a mix. there were a substantial number act we took stateside, so to speak.that was the most effectiy to approach the case in a particular area. to go to your question about trafficking, part of the difficulty we had and part of the reason we have asked the committee to consider and the president has proposed a stronger gun trafficking law, is that we are currently basically trying to prosecute those under u.s. code 92286. those cases are difficult. many times, a judge or a jury may see that kind of prosecution as more of a paperwork violation rather than something that really indicates public safety. for those reasons, we need to assess, and the career prosecutors that are making these decisions often say we need to find some other way to take this particular thing off the street. >> let me just say in conclusion, yours is the second testimony under oath with in the last several weeks that has said exactly the same thing, that this is a shared responsibility of prosecution. i wish those who were criticizing what was going on in many states, with at least take notice of the fact there are prosecution efforts underway that are not assisted by the fact that many of our laws on the federal level are two weeks went -- to week when it comes to this -- too weak when it comes to this. >> i could not agree more. i think we should get on record and make our respective cases. there is no doubt senator feinstein is very sincere. i do not know what to say other than that i am sorry. we will have a discussion about this topic and in light of the world as it is rather than how we would like it to be. how many crimes are committed with rifles in terms of homicide in the united states? what percentage? >> senator, i know it is a small fraction. >> in 2011, it was twice as meant -- -- twice as many people killed with their hands. how many prosecutions have you taken upon yourself? how many prosecutions have you taken up for failing a background check since you have been u.s. attorney? >> i am not aware of any of the top of my head. >> i want to put into record the federal background check form, it says up top you are subject to prosecution if you provide false information. how many cases have you referred to state prosecutions? >> i do not have a specific number on that. if i may, i think it is important to recognize where our focus is. is on prosecuting. >> clearly it is not on prosecuting people who fear -- fail background checks. if you have not done any, how could you not agree? >> i do not agree. >> the point is if you are going to fail background checks, we ought to start forcing the lot that is on the book because almost -- almost 80,000 people fill the background check and 44,000 people are prosecuted, what kind of deterrent is that? the law is of italy -- obviously not seen as that important if it is just such an important issue, why are we prosecuting people who fail a background check? there are 15 questions not hard to understand. i am a bit frustrated we would say one thing, how important it is, and in the real world, we do nothing to enforce the laws on the book. >> for the record, from my point of view -- it does not matter, it is a paper-thin. >> i ask the questions. >> i want to stop 76,000 people from buying guns illegally. that is what a background check does. [applause] >> how many? how many cases? >> if you would withhold for just one moment, please. no expressions one way or another. let's keep this simple. senator gramm and i just got recognized for civility so i know he will keep it simple. >> being civil and confirming convictions are not inconsistent here i admire what you do. it is a dangerous job. has your budget gone down in the last year? >> it has been funded by the city in a great expense. i think is just a reality. i want americans to know what this police chief is facing, almost every other police chief is facing. less money. how many cases have you made for somebody filing -- violating a background check. >> we do not make those cases, senator. we make 2000 gun cases a year. that is our priority. we are trying to prevent the wrong people wrought -- buying guns. that is why we do background checks. if you think i will do a paper chase, then you think i will miss use my resources. >> i am asking you a question about how the law works today. you have made no cases because you say it is not within your belly with. how many cases have you turned over to prosecutor at the state level that you know of? >> we all know the answers to these questions. they are self and prepared we do not chase paper. we chase armed criminals. >> the point is if we do not want the wrong people to own guns, which we all agree come then the one way to do that is to take the system that is supposed to distinguish between the person who should and should not to enforce it, out. i pass the background check. is it not really about who has begun sometimes more than the gun itself? the point i am trying to make is if there are 4 million ar-15 is in this country owned by people like me, i think the argument would be in it is in common use. you may not understand why i want to own an are 15 and i'm not understand what movies you want to watch, but we are talking about trying to solve a problem that has a central core that people who are committing these crimes should never have any guns or one bullet. that is what we all agree on. the best way to prevent crazy people, mentally unstable people from getting a weapon is to identify them somehow before the murders somebody or try to buy one. i will end on this note. in south carolina, i have got parents here. a lady went into ashley hall with a 22 automatic pistol, and think god the gun did not function, who passed a backdrop -- a background check at the federal level. who has been adjudicated not guilty by reason of insanity of trying to kill the president of the united states. we need to change our laws and i would argue the law is fundamentally broken when almost no one gets prosecuted. if you can pass a background check, having been the adjudicated mentally insane by the federal court, we should start by fixing the laws we have rather than expanding them and creating a false sense of security. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. thank you for your longstanding passion and commitment -- and commitment on this issue. a passionate commitment well- founded in your own experience. i would supplement what my friend, senator gramm, said, by saying we can boast cleanup the existing laws and background checks and take necessary steps to make sure truly dangerous and unusual weapons are out of the hands of those who intend to do terrible harm to their fellow citizens. in the context of that, this is our second hearing. in the last hearing, an array of witnesses from both sides appeared. i was struck one of the republican witnesses who was testifying contrary to legislation conceded that these large capacity magazines do not fall within the heller description. i think we are on very safe ground, constitutionally, addressing the type of capacity magazines. it is important that people understand what a difference it makes when somebody undertakes a commitment and they have the additional capacity for evil and harm as a result of the initial capacity in those magazines. mr. walsh, you have obviously look very closely at the facts of what took place in aurora. i suspect you also look at the facts of some of the cases that did not occur in your jurisdiction. to the extent you can do so, while staying within the public record, could you describe for us the events that took place in that movie theater. and what you think might have been different if that weapon had not existed. in your case and if you have information to share in other cases? >> i want to touch on three different instances of mass shooting where i think a high- capacity magazine had tragic consequences. i do need to be careful in discussing the feeder shooting. -- theater shooting. in that shooting, a matter of public record is the shoot -- the shooting resulted in 12 dead and 58 wounded and it took place within the scope of 90 seconds. the fact that there were high- capacity magazines in play during that time was obviously material. in the new town shooting, the information i have is all of the shooting took place in less than four minutes. again, in that case, high- capacity magazines were used. in the tucson, arizona shooting, there were high-capacity magazines. was after a 30 round magazine was expended by the sugar that really heroic -- shooter that really heroic people tackled him to stop the shooting. there is evidence to suggest in that situation lives would have been saved. this happened very quickly. there is no way we are going to prevent people from engaging in these sorts of the tax completely. we do not have a crystal ball that enables us to see into the mind of people who might be spent on this kind of horror. what we can do by limiting and banning high-capacity magazines is we could limit the damage and tragedy and horrific casualties that those people cause when they undertake those sorts of actions. >> my final question. when you consider the amount of damage done in narrow time frames, 90 seconds or four minutes, how realistic do you believe adding armed guards to schools to intervene in such a sudden and deadly attack? >> i do not want to rule out the potential value a local school board might put on having an armed guard. there are situations you can imagine it could be of assistance. woods -- it is hard to see they will start -- solve the problem. it is worth mentioning the schools are the most horrible example of where mass shootings take place. they are not the only places. >> thank you. >> thank you. let me read the list, according to our rules. i know senator bloom and fall was the first in the room. the staff is telling me that is not early bird. you have to be here at ypres same time the testimony begins. i make that apology to you. >> no apology necessary. i am here for the duration. >> good. thank you. senator, you are up next. >> for the witnesses of the other families that have been affected by the gun violence, you have our sympathy and the desire to find some way to violence in our society. we are interested in what would work. first of all, we appreciate your services asking u.s. attorney. would you define what an assault weapon is? >> from the point of view of the department, there are a couple critical considerations. i realize the legislation includes a very elaborate definition of particular aspects of assault weapons that would qualify them for an assault weapons ban. i do not mean to comment on those specifically. i want to focus on some of the most important attributes. we were talking about a weapon that is a rifle and has a high muzzle velocity. second, they are capable of a high rate of fire. they are also capable of excepting a very high-capacity magazine. there are other features i know were covered in the bill, a threaded barrel, a grenade included.ttachment is those things had some effect on the weapon. the three points i made to you that make the weapons the most dangerous were when i mentioned. >> under this legislation, were it to pass, numb -- none of the current assault weapons and people's possessions would not be affected? >> that is correct. >> do you know how many there are? >> i have seen various estimates. the numbers being discussed in this hearing were 4 million. i have seen 3.5. in that range. >> they would be prohibited that woods and they will -- and they still would be in the possession of american citizens. >> that is correct. pa, the fact that we cannot completely addressed this issue immediately does not mean that over time, a ban on new weapons coming into the stream of commerce will not have the effect of improving the safety of the american people. >> there is a lot of debate within the department of justice whether the previous assault weapons ban had any impact whatsoever. i will quote from part of the 1997 bank of japan study. the evidence is not strong enough for us to conclude there was any meaningful effect, that the effect was different from zero. if we are interested in what will solve the problem of gun violence in america, i think we would want to do something that is not tokenism or symbolic, we would want to do something to figure out how to solve the problem, if we can. could you identify any of the recent tragedies we have seen where those tragedies would have been averted if this legislation would have been in effect? >> i cannot tell you they would have been 100% totally averted. i can tell you with some confidence the casualty level would have been lower if the perpetrators did not have the kind of high-capacity magazines they possess and the kind of assault weapons that were used. if i may go back to your earlier point, on the question of the effectiveness of the 1994 assault weapons ban, part of the difficulty is the band has not been adequately studied. the conclusions you were referring to, which accurately depict some of the more recent conclusions are as a result of not having the data necessary to fully analyze the results. there were a couple things that came out that are very important and would strongly support a new assault weapons ban. >> if you will permit me, hopefully we can continue the conversation. here is the quandary i find myself in. the department of justice's record of actually enforcing current gun laws is abysmal. people lives on bat -- is abysmal. people lie on background checks and are not being prosecuted. out of 76,000 denied background checks, the fbi referred to the bureau of alcohol and tobacco and firearms, a burden of plea was reached in 13 cases. a law congress passed that encouraged the state's -- it has been a very spotty record of compliance by the states. we have people who were adjudicated, mentally ill, who would not show up on a background check because that 2008 law has not been adequately enforced. then there is this. we see a number of states like connecticut who have much more restrictive gun laws where some of these tragedies have occurred. we have not stopped it. you even have countries like mexico where you have 60,000 people killed as a result of drug cartel activity and criminals are not stopped by restrictions or law-abiding citizens. is not clear to me that passing more laws that will not be enforced enthusiastically by the department, and you look at the studies that have been done on previous assault weapons bans, and no evidence that it actually had any impact whatsoever, you say it needs more study. that is fine. i would be interested in what the study reveals. just call me skeptical that passing the assault weapon ban would have any real impact given the fact criminals will continue to get guns and the lack of enforcement by the department. >> thank you. you have been very indulgent. >> thank you. >> may i respond? in response to your point, i have a couple of really important things that need to be said today. i could not disagree more strongly that the department of justice is not aggressively enforcing the existing fire arms. we spend an enormous amount of time, effort, energy, talent, skill, and sleepless nights enforcing those laws. if you take a look at 2012, the total number of criminal prosecutions brought by the department of justice was in the vicinity of 85,000. of those, one in seven involved firearms charges. in colorado a couple weeks ago, we did a similar assessment for 2012. in colorado, close to one in five of the criminal prosecutions we bring our cases involving firearms. what are those cases? those cases are those in which a criminal has and uses a firearm. we have limited resources. i know everyone in this room understands the federal government have limited resources to address these things. as a prosecutor and as the prosecutors in my office consider cases, we go for the worst of the worst. the worst of the worst cases are the one in which a bad guy has actually got a gun. that is where we focus our attention. i acknowledge paperwork violations, lying on forms, are federal crimes. part of the things we all need to keep in mind is the fact that 80,000 or 76,000 people in 2012 were rejected as part of the firearms check and not able to buy a firearm, that in and of itself is a victory. that system is working. if you go back to when the fire arms check for -- first went into affect, there were over 1.5 million potential purposes rejected because a person is prohibited, either by a private felony. that is a record of success. there is also no way the department of justice could have prosecuted all 1.5 million people who were rejected over that 15-year purpose. my point is, i am an enforcement guy. i completely agree with you we need to be enforcing the existing fire arms laws effectively. when i think about the people in my office. because they are working so hard, i just have to tell you, i disagree with you. these are career folks. they are not people who are driven by any other politics. they care deeply about their community. >> i applaud mr. walsh for your commitment. i used to be in your line of work. i admire people who put their lives at risk every day. but i do not believe -- when asked. if i can ask that the record i was referring to, if they could be made part of the record. >> so order. thank you. thank you for your work in law enforcement. our neighboring state of wisconsin, and also in colorado, all three of our states share common beliefs, that hunting and recreation is an important part of our culture. is important in minnesota. i have supported the heller decision, but i thought you did a good job of explaining how those decisions anticipated rules and regulations. it is our job. that is what this hearing is about. the first thing i think there is agreement on is they should -- felons should not have guns. i got into that. that was one of my process -- top priorities to enforce those laws. a second one that is emerging is the problem with the background checks. most gun owners agree we should have some kind of background check. one of the problems is the private sale loophole. one of the data from as -- from fbi show the number of women killed by a firearm by intimate partners was 34% lower by states who regulated such sales. do you think this would be helpful in domestic abuse cases to close that loophole? >> they give for the question. >> your mike is off. >> thank you for the question. one of the most effective and important elements is a provision that prohibits people with domestic violence misdemeanors, as well as felony convictions from owning a weapon. the reason for that if the statistics show in cases of habitual domestic violence, the presence of a gun in a home can be deadly. to many of those cases result in the death of the abused spouse or intimate partner. one of the area's where we need to have an invigorated the existing database and an expanded database to cover all sorts of private transactions it is -- is exactly that area. right now, all too often, those offenses may or may not show up accurately in a database. we need to tighten that up. we also need to make a really strong efforts to ensure habitual domestic violence offenders are not able to obtain a gun from a friend or through a purchase or things of that search -- things of that sort. that is why tightening up or extending private transactions -- >> i will submit questions on the record. there is difficulty for law enforcement. most people would agree it is an area where it is reasonable to make regulations. we have the issue of mental health records. a guy killed his parents, got up, this just happened, and they found him a rigid with a bunch of weapons. -- they found him with a bunch of weapons. he had actual notes about new town when they found him. i believe more work can be done there and there should be public support for that. my last question, we have heard a lot of statistics brown about the effectiveness of the assault weapons ban. you have been in law enforcement for 40 years. what was your personal experience. do you is -- do you observe a change from what it was enacted? >> thank you. i had to endure research and statistics class is that made my hair hurt. i did not learn. one of the things i learned was the existence between correlation and causation. thatave a study in 20007 could not identify causations. it was written by ph.d.'s. they can never decide anything. the fact of the matter is, during the bill, the number of assault weapons used in violent crimes declined. we did not do a controlled study. we did not give out ak-47's. then we would know appeared we took a leap of faith. we made the assumption, bold as it was, that keeping high- capacity firearms out of the hands of criminals might reduce violence. violence was reduced. police did a lot of things. we changed our strategy. we embraced accountability systems. we worked very hard. we work closely with the community. we put a lot of guys in jail. we started recovering fewer assault rifles. is there a correlation? yes. it depends how you want to spin the data. >> thank you. >> thank you, madam chairman. i would like to begin by thanking the victims of violence who have come here and the members of law enforcement. i would like to thank you for your service on the front lines and to the victims of violence, i express the deepest sympathies that law enforcement was not able to prevent the horrific crimes you suffered. i have two little girls. i cannot imagine the suffering you are experiencing now. i have spent much of my adult life in law enforcement working to deter violent criminals and insure those who commit violent crimes of violence faced the very strictest of punishment. i am sorry for each of the victims here today who lost loved ones, that the system did not work to protect your loved ones and prevent the loss of life. this is an issue that touches on a lot of emotions. i would suggest an approach, that, in my view, should guide the senate's treatment. it is an approach that we should target our efforts to violent criminals. we should not target our efforts to needlessly restricting the constitutional liberties of law- abiding citizens. in gun control, there are a variety of proposals discussed. some, the evidence demonstrates, are cosmetic and they allow politicians to say, we are acting, but the evidence does not support they have any efficacy. others present a real threat on intruding on the liberties of law-abiding citizens. i want to start on the assault weapons ban. you said there had not been enough study on the assault weapons ban. a very similar law was in effect for roughly a decade. the department of justice has funded at least three studies. bill had anyhat positive effect. in 1999, the study concluded it failed to reduce. in 2004, it was concluded the assault weapons ban produced no discernible reduction in the lethality and luxury isthmus of gun violence. in 1997, the study that was already discussed like wide -- likewise concluded. are you aware of any compelling an empirical data to the contrary? we have three studies that included the prior band had no effect. are you aware of empirical data to the contrary? >> let me say two things. it is an important question to ask. my understanding of what those studies said is a statistical analysis had not statistically established no fat. it is a fine point but an important one. the doctor who led the studies in east -- in each of those studies most recently came out with a january 2013 update description of his studies and thoughts for the future. he indicated he thought an argument could be made that, over time, if the assault weapon ban have continued to be coupled with a high-capacity magazine then, the combination of those things might have had a 5% effect. >> if i understand your answer, you did not point to any empirical data that demonstrates it had any effect whatsoever on violent crime. is that correct? >> not conclusive evidence it had an effect. i think the empirical data dr. copper is referring to, he believed there was a suggestion that on the margin, there was an impact. it was not necessarily statistically significant, that he could tell from his work. there were two areas i think are important to keep in mind, statistically, if i can risk that. one is there is good evidence assault weapons are used disproportionately in attacks with multiple victims and victims' with multiple wounds. secondly, there is good evidence to suggest assault weapons are used disproportionately on an attack on law officers. those would justify we proceed with the assault weapons ban. >> there was early discussion about causation and correlation. according to the bjs, 1993 to 2001, there were 611 homicides per year average with assault where polls -- assault rifles. in 2010, 358, a little more than half. in 2011, 323. that is without the assault weapons ban in place. would you agree that that does not suggest the assault weapons ban had any significant efficacy and reducing violent crime? >> if we go back and look at the studies, the conclusion of dr. copper and his colleagues was there were multiple factors pulling into that. over the same time, we were seeing a reduction of violent crime overall in the united states, which also impacted it. the simple is -- the simple answer is, i am not an expert in that area. thes fair to staay effectiveness of the original assault weapons ban was mixed. there were some areas where the department of justice believes there was a positive effect in reducing the total number of victims. if the ban were extended and not made to sunset after 10 years, over time, we could see an improvement. >> my time has expired. i hope we can discuss how the department of justice and law enforcement can target violent criminals directly rather than either legislation that the data suggests has no material affect, or legislation that would strip law-abiding citizens. instead, we should be targeting a violent criminals. that is what will protect people's lives. >> thank you. >> thank you for your leadership on this difficult and enormously emotional issue on every side. i have been doing a lot of thinking and soul-searching the last several months. i spent a lot of time traveling around minnesota, talking with my constituents about this issue. what i am hearing is people want us to take action to reduce gun violence and to make our communities safer. they want us to honor the second amendment and respect minnesota's culture of responsible gun ownership. so there is balance to be struck here. i focus on mental health issues. while continually underscoring how important it is not to stigmatize mental illness. the vast majority of people who are mentally ill are no more violent than the general population. if we are going to make mental health a part of this, let's make it more than a talking point. let's do something to improve the access to treatment for children and adults. today, we are talking about assault weapons. to prepare for the hearing, i went back and read the record from the last two hearings. one of the arguments we have heard is that assault weapons are needed for self-defense. a witness at our first hearing gave us a list of more than 20 instances in which guns were used in self-defense. i have not seen everett -- any evidence that any of those cases involved an assault weapon or a large capacity magazine. rather than presenting real cases as evidence for the record, that these weapons are needed for self-defense, witnesses and members of this committee have asked us to imagine hypothetical situations where someone needs an assault weapon or more than 10 rounds for self-defense. imagine those hypothetical cases. i am not sure what value that holds. but i do not have to imagine someone using a 30-round magazine for several to kill 20 children. -- or several to kill 20 children. because that happened. i do not have to imagine a deranged man using a 100-round clip to kill 12 people in a movie theater. that happened. i do not have to imagine a man man firing 33 rounds on interrupted at a grocery store parking lot, killing six people, including a little girl. and wounding 13 others. including a member of congress. that happened. i do not have to a match and a mad man with an extended clip slaughtering people because that happened. i have a responsibility to make informed decisions. we owe it to all americans who dressed as -- to address this emotional issue with a healthy regard for reality and the truth. if we ban assault weapons and large capacity magazines, will we save lives? that is the real question. it is not easy. we have been discussing this data. in previous hearings, we were told a 1997 independent study commissioned by the clinton justice department, the one just discussed, we were told it proved the last assault weapons ban had no affect on crime. that it proved it. mr. walsh, your testimony addresses that study. do the studies prove, as we have been told, that the assault weapons ban was ineffective? or do they show something else? >> if i may begin with the earlier 1990's-era study, the initial conclusion was that there was potentially up to a 6.7% reduction in gun murders as a result of the assault weapons ban and the high-capacity magazine bam. in subsequent ianalysis, the authors did not prove that was statistically significant here they were trying to be thoughtful and very precise about the amount of evidence they had >> this was done only on one-year's data, because it was 1997. they said our best estimate is that the ban contributed to a decrease in total gun murders between 1994 and 1995. beyond what would have been expected in view of on going crime, demographic, and economic trends. quote.s a i think this is very important. because you cannot prove something is statistically valid, that does not prove it did not happen. in fact, unless you cherry sentences, you can cherry pick others. an honest reading is not that this proved this did not have efficacy. it did not prove that all. >> if i could add two other points relevant, since the assault weapons ban expired in 2004, studied by the police executive research forum in 2010 found 37% of police departments reported an increase in criminals' use of assault weapons again since the time of the ban expiring, as well as a 38% increase in the use of those weapons, also using high- capacity magazines, those with more than 10 rounds. there is evidence subsequent to that that the prevalence of these weapons and their use in crime is rising, which is something we should be concerned about, as well. >> thank you. >> thank you for both of you for being with us today and for your service to the country. i appreciate what you do. we have all been horrified by acts of mass violence. including and especially those that have occurred in recent memory. i do not think there is a person here in this room or anyone watching on television who does not want to find a way to end or at least diminish incidence of gun violence. there are a number of factors at play in our society and culture. they have created an environment in which gun violence has regrettably -- i worry at times if we rush to quickly into enacting gun ownership restrictions, that could cause problems. first, because it could give the american people a basis for concluding congress could put an end to this just by legislating. experience in this area and others taught us we cannot fix everything through legislation. there has been a suggestion made today, some indication by the evidence, that there is at least a mixed record. an absence of certain proof as to the efficacy of gun ownership laws in the past. perhaps more importantly, i worry about what up -- what some of the gun control measures we have been discussing my to to the rights of law-abiding citizens. -- might do to the rights of law-abiding citizens. some people may obey the law regardless of what it says and some people might disregard it regardless of what it saiys. we always have to be on the lookout for the law-abiding. whenever we enact laws, it is those people whose liberty is diminished. it is those people whose options are constrained by what we do here. i focused a lot on those people. in this hearing, we are provided with an opportunity to discuss whether the assault weapons ban of 2013 will alleviate gun violence without diminishing the rights of those people. i would like to talk to you about this a little bit. in your written testimony, you state magazines with more than 10 rounds are not necessary for self defense because the majority of such shootings occur at close range. and my understanding your written testimony? >> that is certainly included. are correctume you the majority of self-defense shootings to occur at close range. what might this mean for those minority of instances in which law abiding citizens might use a gun in self-defense in long- range situations? can we ignore the impact that any laws we adopt might have on persons who need more than 10 rounds to legitimately and lawfully defend themselves and their families or the needs of those people who might need a longer range approach to self- defense? >> i think it is a good question. self-defense is the core of the second amendment protection. we acknowledge and want to honor that. i have a couple thoughts. part of the reason most self- defense incidents occur at close range is that when you have an assailant at longer range, you can leave the scene or call in for assistance. i would differ to the police chiefs sitting at my side for the details. that is important to keep in mind. there is a reason why the close range incidences are more common. the evidence that i have seen suggests the vast majority of self-defense incidents involve one or two shots fired, if any. i will tell you in my personal experience as an assistant u.s. attorney, i am not aware of any specific self-defense incident in which a potential victim a than oneed to fire more shot. there could be a circumstance under which that took place. in that scenario, i agree with you. there is a potential, marginal effect on that person's ability to defend themselves. i am not aware of those instances happening. >> i appreciate that. i see my time is running out. there was a 1995 study of the use of guns in self-defense. i understand the study concluded that in almost half of the instances in which a victim was attacked and used a gun in self- defense, there were at least two attackers. in nearly 25% of those situations, there were three or more attackers. even at close range, would it not be helpful if not critical, in those instances, would that not be helpful to have an ammunition magazine with more than 10 rounds? >> i am not sure i am familiar with the study you are referring to. i know there were statistics that were going around related not to armed assaults but to assaults with firearms, but assaults by assailants that were not all armed. i would need to have a chance to look at that. to answer your question directly, the fact is if someone were confronted with three assailants armed with firearms, i suppose there is a hypothetical scenario under which having more than 10 rounds of the magazine would be of some marginal assistance. as i say, i am not aware of any such assistance happening where somebody has acquired more than tet -- required more than 10 shots. >> thank you. i would like to thank the two panelists. i did not use all of my time. the intent of the bill in 2004 was to dry up supply over time. the sunset had to be added. we came through the senate in a bear margin. 51 votes on a motion to table. the sunset was critical to getting those votes. point two, the gun manufacturers took the two characteristics and crafted weapons to get around it. the third point is that this is really an important issue of public policy. these weapons could also, by virtue of their construction, be held at the hip and spray fired. that makes them just lethal with the increased velocity, as you pointed out, in a rifle. i really appreciate your frankness. i appreciate you being here. the city you served is very lucky. mr. prosecutor, you have fantastic retention. i really thank you for your service to our country. oh, senator blumenthal, take some extra time. i am so sorry. >> thank you. i know in the senate, freshmen senators are supposed to be seen and not heard. i am happy to be heard today. [laughter] i want to begin by thanking you, madam chairman, for your courage over many years, you're consistent advocacy for this assault weapons ban. you have been strong. the blunt fact is this issue was thought to be politically untouchable two months ago. we would not be here today without the horrific new town tragedy. i want to begin by asking my fellow citizens of connecticut, most specifically of the members of the newtown committee, as well as the families who have victims, to please stand so we can thank you publicly for your courage and strength in this extraordinary historic moment. thank you. >> let's give them a round of applause. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> i want to thank my colleague, who was here earlier. he had another hearing. he has been a very active member of his team. there was extraordinary evil in new town on december 14 of last year. there was also extraordinary heroism. part of it was in fact the law enforcement officers who went to the school, charged into the building, and thereby prevented even more deaths because the shooter turned the gun on himself when he knew police were on the scene. i want to begin by thanking our law enforcement officers who are on the front lines every day. we have two of our most distinguished in the country. thank you for being here. thank you for your eloquent and powerful testimony today. it was also the current -- courage and strength of the newtown community. the ph.d.'s and statisticians and lawyers may debate the numbers, but the second simple, blunt fact is that some or all of those 20 beautiful children and educators would be alive today if assault weapons had been banned, along with high- capacity magazines. some of the victims in tucson would be alive today, including 9-year-old christina taylor. the fact is we need a comprehensive strategy. nobody here is saying and assault weapons ban, were a prohibition on high-capacity magazines, will end gun violence. we are choosing to light a candle rather than curse the darkness. the fact is, i would agree with you totally that what we see in our nation is mass murder committed as a result of gun violence. i differ only to say it is not slow motion. it is escalating. it is rapid fire. 1900 people have been killed since newtown as the result of gun violence. i want to began by asking you, chief flynn, what is it that leads you to feel the men and women on your force are outgunned by these assault weapons? >> i carried a six shooter the first years of my career. in the last 20 years, we have been in an arms race. i had to start farming my officers with assault weapons in cruisers to start to protect themselves. that is not where we were. >> their body armor won't protect them. >> we have to constantly upgrade the body armor and offer them the opportunity to wear metal plates. i had the opportunity on september 11, 2001. i was the police chief in arlington, virginia. that is where the pentagon was. what i learned that day is if this country >> now i wondered in the last decade how many people have to get murdered in a mass murder for it to be enough? i've been wrong time after time after time. i'm a grand pap i have little kids at home. are 20 babies be enough. that's what we're asking for? when was that gun bought? [applause] >> i'm a law enforcement guy too. i had your job in connecticut some years ago. i want to say, nobody in law enforcement ever thinks we're doing enough. nobody ever says we can go home and stop trying to to do better. so as much as we may agree with you that the united states department of justice and local and state police forces are trying to enforce these laws as agress ily as possible. i think you need more resources and you need criminal background checks. so you can know how to keep these weapons, all weapons out of the hands who shouldn't have them, criminals, domestic abusers, the severe mentally ill. would you agree that the criminal background check expansion into private sales as well as ammunition sales are a way to enforce the existing laws? that are on the books right now so you can know before the weapons are purchased that we can keep those guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. >> the majority of firearms are bought bielly, they are not stolen. -- legally they are not stolen. six of my officers were shot by criminal who is bought guns out of the same dealer. the point is, those checks work. effect extend them to the gun shows we can keep guns out of the hands of criminals as well as the criminally insane. >> perhaps we can stop them from buying ammunition after they have those guns. would you agree? >> certainly. >> would you agree? >> absolutely, senator. i think those are critical steps that will help us keep the american people safer. i know after the columbine the state of colorado tightened up their own background check to close the so-called gun show loophole. you can't stop everything as we saw last july in aurora. >> thank you charm. >> this completes the panel. excuse me, senator you have one more question. >> to learn from the experiences in your state, on september 21, 2011 the a.t.f. issued an open letter to all federal firearms regarding transfer of firearms and ammunition to individuals authorized by state law to use marijuana for medal purposes. the years of medical marijuana even authorized by state law are prohibited by possessing firearms. because they are considered yawn lawful users of controlled substances under the law. because your state passed the amendment 64. i have three questions but really dealing with that subject. so i will give you a three. will you prft individual who is use marriage in colorado and possess firearms and ammunition as a vilings? why or why not? lastly, your charged with enforcing federal law. have you prosecuted anyone for violating based on medical marijuana use? >> on respect to the first question, the answer is yes, we have. in fact, we have a case out of boulder county where an individual was engaged in a grow of marijuana and possessed a variety of weapons, including nasty things called street sweepers. if we would prosecutor individuals solely because they had a firearm and were user of medical marijuana, i think we have to look at those cases individually before we make a decision to determine if that was the right allocation of our resources. i say that because the guidance we received from the department is that generally speaking it is not the best use of our limited federal resurses to go after individual patients who may be using medical marijuana. >> thank you very much for your answer. >> the next panel to please come forward. senator blumenthal will introduce the first two witnesses. >> please take your seats we would like to begin. senator blumenthal at your pleasure. >> thank you. thank you and my thanks for having two witnesses from connecticut. i don't know if you want to administer the oath or -- >> i will. i was going to -- >> i will be happy to introduce them before if you like. >> all right. if the witnesses would stand and raise your right hand. do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? thank you, please be seated. >> thank you both for being here. when i went to the sandy hook firehouse on the day of shooting, within hours of this occurrence i went as a public official, but what i saw was through the eyes of a parent. and i saw the aftermath and impact of unspeakable and unimaginable horror and evil. there was also a lot of heroism from gentlemen like yourself and families that were there. in your case, to help save lives and in your case, to learn about the loss of your son. to introduce you first, i know on december 14 you lost your son jesse. he was 6 years old and attended san hook elementary. i know also, as you have told me and the doctor has from the beginning of this tragedy and as recently as sunday night and yesterday that you want to be here to try to make sure that newtown never happens again. i am grateful and i know the committee is for you being here. we have much to thank you for being here neil for being here. your courage is an inspiration and hopefully will be an inspiration to this committee. i know you were born and raised in connecticut and you went into medicine after your father passed away following a medical mistake. you were voted the top resident in john hopkins for community emergency room doctors. during your residency you also did a clerkship at the maryland shock trauma institute. then you went to work at fort drum to oversee 800 doctors and 200 physician assistants at the hospital. you are currently a director and i know you were in newtown that day. at the danbury hospital where you were the e.r. physician on duty when some of the sandy hook children were brought to the hospital and emergency room. i thank you for your efforts on that tragic day and for testifying today. >> welcome. we are honored to hear your comments. >> i'm jesse's dad. jesse was brutally murdered at the sandy hook school. 20 minutes after i dropped him off. this picture was taken when jesse was 6 months old. it was our first christmas together. that picture over there is the picture six months before his death. that picture is a picture from last year. jesse was the love of my life. he was the only female i had left. it is hard for me to be here today talking about my son. i have be his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy or a pat on the back. i'm here to speak up for my son. there are many changes that have to happen to make the change effective. mental health issue, better background checks, ban these weapon, ban the high-capacity magazines, they all have to come together and work effectively. common sense tells you that. i watched the video this morning , about the dangerous weapon. anyone that can argue that isn't being honest. jesse was 6 half years old. -- 6 and half years old. the day he was born was the happiest day of my life. the saddiest day of my life was december 14. i waited in that firehouse until 1:00 in the morning, 12:30 until i knew that jesse was confirmed dead. senator blumenthal was there, governor malloy, the other congressman from connecticut along with the police and the first responders. i have a bond with them that will last a lifetime. no person should have to go through what myself and any of the other victim's families had to deal with and had do go through and what the town of newtown had to go through. on the morning of december 14, jesse and i stopped at a dellly and got his -- deli and we got his favorite sandwich. we always do that that. i get a coffee and jesse got what he called a coffee but it was a hot chocolate. it was 9:04 when i dropped jesse off. the school clock -- jesse gave me a hug and a kiss at that time and said good-bye, i love you. he stopped and said i love mom too. that was the last i saw of jesse as he ducked around the corner. prior to that, when he was getting out of the truck he hugged me and held me and i can still feel that hug and the pat on the back. he said everything is going to be ok dad. it is all going to be ok. and it wasn't ok. i had to go home that night to an empty house. something that shouldn't have ever happened at an elementary school. people argue about the second amendment, how the second amendment is well-regulated militia to bear arms. freedom of state, it hasn't been well regulated. it is not being weg regulated. -- well regulated. i read over -- it is not about taking the weapons from the owners, it is putting a ban on the manufacturing and curving the sale of them. it is not hurting the sportsman, it is not hurting the gun owners now. i fully support the second amendment and i fully support the sportsman and the hunters. i grew up with firearms. i started skeet shooting with my father when i was 8 years old. in my teen years i was state championship. i achieved a level of markmansship. i have a knowledge of weapons, including military weapons. i don't participate in shooting or hunting anymore. i had a young boy and i devoted my life to him. the same day that jesse passed away, five days before that my mother passed away. jesse had an interest in military. jesse had an interest in guns and asked a lot of questions about them. strange enough the night before he perished, he was looking at a survival magazine. in that magazine, there were three weapons on one page. i had to go back the following day to look at that. but i quickly looked at it that night but it was an assault weapon and two handguns. he asked me about the weapons and i explained what they were used for and their capability. it was a high-velocity high-range cartridge used by the military. his response was to the weapon or gun used to kill people and i said yes, jesse, that is what it is used for. jesse had a bebe gun and i got it for him for christmas. i taught him gun safety and he was proficient with it and knew the gun safety precautions. he could recite them to you. the same way i could when i was his age. it breaks my heart that something like that could happen in this country. i walked past the capitol this morning, the capitol police three feet from me, what is he holding? an assault weapon. protecting us today. a weapon similar to that was brought into an elementary school, sandy hook connecticut and killed 20 students and six educators. i just can't believe that could happen. those weapons were used in the battlefields of vietnam. they were used in the persian gulf, they were used in afghanistan and iraq. the sole purpose is to put a lot of lead on the battlefield quickly and that is what they could do. that was proof right there, the video this morning. they have the capability to be held and used to produce rapid fire. i asked a question a month ago, what purpose those served around the street? i haven't received an answer yet but they did alert the second amendment. it wasn't about the second amendment. i defend second amendment and i want to see that upheld and regulated and it hasn't been. when that was written almost 300 years ago we didn't have these weapons that we have today and the technology. they had canons and muskets. i think it was 1934 when the ban was put on machine guns and the regulation. we haven't had a mass killing with a machine gun since. i feel these so-called assault weapons that have certain characteristics could fall in that category and be banned. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> thank you chairman feinstein and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to speak and testify. i'm a doctor and i trained at the john hopkins hospital. the parent of three newtown students, i'm with a couple of grass roots organizations, including the united physicians in newtown and the newtown action alliance. our group of physicians is over 100 demrs newtown who are on the same platform, some are republican, some democrat, but we're all in the same platform about assault weapons and gun violence. i'm the e.m.s. medical director for newtown. i'm afriend of some of the families that lost loved ones and i was the e.r. doctor that was on shift on december 14. what is my goal? my goal is to convince you that banning assault rifles and real gun control measures that l make a difference. research has been severely limited. i had to go overseas to see some real data to see what the real answers are. in scotland in 1996, a shooter got off 109 rounds, he killed 16 little children and a teach earn injured another 27 kids and four more teachers. in australia in the same year, a 28-year-old with an ar-15 assault rifle killed 35 people and injured another 23. the damage caused by an assault rifle compared to a regular gun is horrific. some of the injuries is so bad that there is nothing salvageable. they don't even make it to my e.r. what do legislatures do across the world, they enacted real gun solutions. they banned assault weapons. did the legislation work right away? no, it didn't work right away. but where they stand today in 2010 as fars a mass murderers go, in the u.s. we've had over 20 mass murders. in the united kingdom, one. in australia, zero. before 1996, in australia there was over a dozen. we've had over 30,000 data each year in our country. in australia and united kingdom with their gun legislation they have less than 300 deaths a year. that is 1%. gun legislation to ban assault rifles, it works. if you own a gun because you think it is going to make you safer, let me give you some real stats. there's something called -- women are five times likely to be killed by the spouse if there is a gun in the house. i'm sorry for being loud but this is emotional for me. if you own a gun in the house you are five times likely to die from suicide. gun control measures do lower the chance of gun deaths for citizens. i'm asking you to consider a ban on assault military weapons. a ban on semi-automatic rifle, require background checks for gun purchases and please, please, can we do some real gun research in this country? in this country. those who say let's focus on mental health are the same ones that say we need to have a conservative approach and balance the budget. what are the first program that are cut? mental health. i'm asking you to not even add programs i'm asking not to cut the program that are out there. allow me as a doctor, when i so see a patient when i talk to them about texting and driving, alcoholism, safe sex, can i talk to them about gun violence? please. you are 23 times likely to driving about texting and driving why can't i have announcement saying the same thing to gun ownership. i'm not against the second amendment. physical you go through the proper channels, i do respect your ability to own a gun. but not an assault rifle. i want to recognize the efforts of the first responders from the greater newtown area. thank you for your service. to the families, who's loved one made it to the e.r., we tried our best. my mom and my dad were both connecticut state respectives, eni said to my mom i said mom, why don't you think they will change? she said they have their party lines and they have their lobbyists. i said do you think this one time they will do us right? she said yeah, i think so. i think this time they will. people say that the overall number of assault weapons death is relatively small. don't tell that to the people of com william bike, aurora, and please don't tell that to the people of newtown. this is a tipping point and this is a health issue. please make the right decision. thank you for our time. if there's extra time i want to show a small video. it shows the difference between a gunshot with a handgun and an assault rifle. thank you for our time otherwise. >> thank you for your time, doctor. i will introduce the following four witnesses. nicholas jay johnson. he's published articles on the subject of firearms regulations and environmental law. prior to that he practiced law as an associate with morgan lewis, served as vice president of westar environmental cooperation and was of council for kirkpatrick and lockhart. he's the author of two books on gun ownership. i will introduce david, who is an attorney in private practice in tucson. he is a friend of the court in several firearm related cases. he spent 10 years as a career attorney. he represented the united states fishing and wildlife service. prior to service in the government, he was assistant general council for the national rifle association. sam adams is a representative elected in 2010, to represent florida's 24th district before she served for a term of two years. she worked in the florida state house of representatives for four years and served over 17 years with orange county sheriff's office as a deputy sheriff an investigator. finally, mayor michael nutter. he is the mayor of philadelphia. as the leader of the official nonpartisan organization with populations of 30,000 or more. the mayor speaks on behalf of 1,300 mayors nationwide. before he was the mayor of philadelphia, he spent 15 years on the philadelphia city council. we'll begin with you, mr. johnson. welcome. you want to activate your mic. thank you. >> thanks for inviting me. first i should say, the last two pieces of testimony, when reference to the victims of incidents like this is give them anything they want. i understand that impulse. i guess, what i would say to people who support the bill, which i have critiques here is the mind is a council of despair, unfortunately. my testimony is drawn from analysis of this question that i published in 2009. the classifications established are unsustainable under the lowest level of constitutional review. they fail to meet the rational bay basis requirements -- basis requirements. we must compare that category to the base line of guns which is deemed unacceptable. the characteristics that are defined were all objectively measural. by those objective measures the classification i think is unsuss and theable and i have detailed this in the article that i mentioned. the primary characteristic is multishot capability. the common 30-round magazine will fire .22 caliber, one with each pull of the trigger. now compare guns that are in the nonprohibited class. the shotgun, pump or semi automatic. huppeds of guns of this time are on the list of prohibited firearms. there are hundreds of guns of this type in the inventory. any of these guns will fire 15, .33 caliber with a single pull of the trigger. you have a variety of other loadings that will push this up or downward. this broad category of repeating shotguns can be reloaded without disabling the gun. that is an attribute that the class does not exhibit. the down time while the shooter changes magazine is actually circumstance come vented by the class of shut guns that are on the nonprohibited list. another claim that prohibblets the class of guns is they are equipped with barrel shrouds and those things contribute to spray firing without aiming. this better describes shut gun technology. now, these basic points are confirmed by the united states army assessment. a version of this anal sills appears in an 1997 article published in "the army lawyer." as to the legality of the shut gun in combat. it was prepared to a response to a formal complaint in world war i charging that the model pump shotgun in use by u.s. troops was so destructive that it violated the laws of war. the response was this, the shotgun finds its class and the dispersion of the shotgun pellets was for the purpose of putting out in action of charging the enemy with each shot of the gun. with this respect, it is like the machine gun discharging a spray of bullets. it goes on to describe a british analysis of a shotgun, which reports of heighting a man-sized target was superior to all other weapons. this assaults weapon is described as immediate cartridge and superior to the sub machine gunfiring a five round. when gaged against these characteristics, the rhetoric not only inaccurate describes the class but describes guns that it is classified as less dangerous and put s put on a list of good guns. that limits the bill as inco-inherent and that renders the bill unable to pass the analysis. my detailed testimony goes into far more deathth with regard to other characteristics of this type. my overall assessment is this, guns are dangerous, all of them are dangerous. as a class they are deadly, especially when deployed against defensive people. i fear the conversation we've been having about this particular type of gun is a distraction of the broader issues. >> thank you very much, mr. johnson. >> thank you. as he has demonstrated that the s 150 cannot pass scrutiny because it discriminates against different things. i would point out that it would mark the most extensive gun ban in the history of this republic. the 1994 ban, listed several brands that could not be made. in 1994 ban, firearms with a pistol grip that per attituded lower than the firearm. that virtually -- the only reason i can't say every but every rifle and shotgun made today has a pistol grip. it is not a separate pistol grip it is just the area where your hand fits around makes it more comfortable to fire. so any semi-automatic that have a replaceable magazine. the category seems to be focused on style as they say military style but the fact of the matter is, nobody would go toward with a semi automatic. they would go toward with a m16. the price of the creation of the assault rifle, which is fully automatic they had to drop the pow ore of the cartridge by 50%. you can't fire a military round without getting the heck beaten out of you by recoil. so it we dropped the power to slightly over 1,000. some might turn it into the a semi automatic and you have half the military power. if you look at the various ban features, apart from having the power of the pistol grip, there's been statements that the still grip is supposed to prevent aim from the hip. that only happens from "rambo" movies. you can't hit anything in that mode. if you stop to think about the angle of the pistol grip, it would make it harder to fire from the hip than from the shoulder because military doesn't want you firing from the hip. the threaded barrel, i can't see a connection between a threaded barrel and criminal conduct. what could it be? if we talk flight suppresser, i have ver tied with an ar15 in a darkened range there is no flash. you can take the flash is up presser off. i would agree with the doctor on one issue that i promised my friend to raise. clayton wrote a book on the mentally ill and what a disaster it has been for the country. he cites about 1,000 homicides a year of mentally ill peel who have gone off their medicines. we have to treat the mentally ill, especially the dangerous ones, get them off the street where they can be treated. we're not doing a fraction of this at the moment. we can try to get the violent, mentally ill out of commission or we need to create a environment where it is safe to have the mentally ill on the street. one of the features is illustrated by two firearms. both shoot the same art ridge, both take 20-30-round magazines. both shoot at the same rate per trigger pull. both weigh the same and are about the same length. the ar-15 is one of the prohibited list and the 14 is exempted from the two bans. the only difference one has a wooden stock and the other one has a plastic one. i think has the professor pointed out, to pass any scrutiny there has to be a relationship between the statute and an important social goal. it must not unnecessarily impact the lawful rights. they have no relationship to criminal use. i would point out one last thing, which is as far as burden of rights. there is only one adam lanza. but attempts to regulate their actions. thank you. >> thank you very much. representative adam, welcome. >> thank you. before i begin, i would like to state that my thoughts and prayers go out to the friends and families of newtown and the first responders. this issue is not political to me but it is personal. i spent over 17 years as a law enforcement officer in orange county, florida. i had the ultimate experience of looking down the barrel of a gun knowing that that trigger was pulled, i would not be here today. i know what it feels like when a laser is put on you. my comments are not based on political motivation but my personal believes and experiences. i consider any legislation made would truly contribute to that worthy objective. to ban a wide variety of rifles and shotguns and ammunition of magazines that hold over 11-rounds, that is an easy answer. that study found that the banned weapons and magazines were never involved in a modest fraction of all gun murderers. several years later, a study found that assault weapons were used in a small percentage of gun crimes and that assail leapts fire within the 10-round magazine imposed by the ban. given the outcome of the studies and the fact that the nation's murder rate continues to decrease. legislation that seeks to ban semiautomatic firearms will not solve the nation's crime problem. because it is not the lack of the law that is the problem, it is lack of the enforcement of existing laws. 10 years ago i ran for office as i watched officials run for office without any regard of such laws. i saw firsthand how difficult it was to convince state and federal agencies to prosecutor criminals for illegal gun possessions. the attitude of many that i worked with was that these types of crimes were nuisance cases that was a drain on their resources. if we don't prosecutor people who possess firearms illegally what good does it do to pass more laws? in addition to enforcing the laws, we must get a handle on how to get firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill. my state has proactively addressed. i sponsored a bill that requires them to keep a day that base of the mentally ill. and this amust disclose the data for other states used to determine the lawfully firearm sale or transfer. i also sponsored a bill that expanded the use of the mental health database and expanded the judicated mentally defected to include those who are committed to outpatient mental health treatments. these improve public safety by keeping firearms out of the mentally ill without endangering law-abiding gun owners. you have the tunt to do what is right and it may not be the easiest right. it is not time for feel-good legislation so you can say you did something. thank you. >> thank you very much. a wrap up speaker is the distinguished mayor nutter of philadelphia. >> all the members of this committee, i'm the mayor of the city of philadelphia. i'm honored to have the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the nation's mayors to discuss the importance of passing the assaults weapon ban of 2013. while we support several billions being considered by this committee, we have made passage of the assaults weapon ban of 2013 our top priority. gun violence has been perm for you, senator feinstein and it has been personal for me. the first police officer my city lost after i became mayor was killed by an ak-47 or sk-47 assault-time weapon when he responded to a bank robbery on a saturday morning. i will never forget that day. a 12-year veteran with the philadelphia police officer. he was 39 years old. he left a wife and three children. neither police officers nor our citizens, and especially our children should be confronted with these weapons on the streets, in our schools, in our movie theaters, shopping mall, in our places of worship or other civilian settings. gun violence has also been personal for neil who is here on this table for w us today. on a personal note, it is my personal feeling that some of the statements made today have been passionately disrespectful to jesse and all others at newtown and many other cities across the country. [applause] he has been visited by every parents' nightmare. with his help, we can secure legislation that will spare other parents and other young children of the unimaginable pain of a life lost by a weapon designed for mass killing. the tragedy at sandy hook elementary school that killed 20 young children and six educators remains incomprehensible to all of us. too many times mayors have expressed shock at mass shootings. many of us must cope with the gun violence that occurs on our streets daily. citizens have been killed on philadelphia streets by handguns with high-capacity magazines as well as rifles and shotguns. to me, and to america's mayors, these are weapons of mass destruction and they are destroying our communities, our streets, our citizens and our females. the u.s. conference of mayors have been calling for sensible gun safety laws to protect the public for more than 40 years. our call on a ban of assault weapons dates back to 1981. we have done that because of the tremendous toll that gun violence takes on the american people day in and day out. every day in the united states of america, 282 people are shot, 86 die, including 32 who are murdered. every day, every day 50 children and teens are shot and eight of them die, including five who are murdered. gun violence disproportionately affects urban areas. our nation's 50 largest areas have cities and those cities account for 15% of the population but 39% of gun-related murderers and 29% of homicide. philadelphia, like many major cities have struggled to control gun violence for years. however, despite our recent success as employing police techniques, deaths due to gun violence have not fallen. let me use one set of statistics to illustrate this point. last year, in philadelphia the number of shooting victims was 1,282. this is down considerably from the year before. it was the lowest number since we began tracking shooting victims in the year 2000. however, the number of homicide victims was up slightly, seven more than in 2011. how are these two statistics possible? the answer is homicide victims have more bullets killing them. there are more rounds being fired than head shots. victims are bleeding out because when you're hit with eight, 10, 12, or 15 shots, if even you do not hit a major artistry you will bleed out in the streets or by the time you get to the hospital. when someone is shot in philadelphia or many other cities, sometimes they are more likely to die from the volume of rounds that hit them than anything else. i would note that pennsylvania, does not have strict gun regulations. when the city adopted the gun laws a few years ago our state supreme courting struck those laws down. that's why we need federal legislation. cities alone cannot reduce gun violence. we're doing everything we can but we're still losing the battle thanks to the proliferation of guns in our nation. philadelphia's story is not unique. mayors everywhere use scarce resources to fight gun violence, resources we should be using to educate our children. a letter sent three days after the newtown tragedy occurred and it calls on the president and congress to take immediate action and make changes to our gun laws and regulations. first is enact to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. i ask that you include that letter in the record for this hearing. >> so ordered. >> mayors who are protecting the cities, it is our highest responsibilities. >> it is more than passing sensible gun laws. we also know that we cannot keep our cities safe unless we pass such laws. your assault weapons ban bill is common sense legislation that will help us reduce the number of people, including police officers, who are shot and killed in our cities and throughout our nation. this legislation deserves a vote. this legislation deserves to be passed by this committee, by the senate, and by the house so president obama can sign it into law. i know we'll take an act of political courage for many members of congress to support an assault weapons ban of 2013 but the time for courage is now. how many more children, how many more police officers do we have to lose for our elected representatives to do the right thing? please take action now in the interest of the most important special interest groups in america, all of american. >> thank you very much. it is very much appreciated. i would like to, did you treat sandy hook victims? >> yes. i was in the e.r. that day when the victims came in. >> can you describe the kinds of wounds and the number of bullets in these small bodies? >> there's privacy rules in hippa that prevent me from detailing the type of wounds. but most of the victims didn't come in when you have such horrific injuries to little bodies, they don't make it to the hospital. the coroner from the state of connecticut, he stated that each body had three-11 bullets. when a child has three-111 bullets and it is an assault-type bullet and it does not go in a straight line, it goes through and it opens up. that is not a survival injury. so with respect to the families who lost loved ones and have them come into the emergency room and hippa rules i can't describe the specifics. but hopefully, i did paint a picture of what went on. >> did you have something that you wanted to show us? >> there's a video that is about one minute. it is to highlight the difference between a bullet that went into a body versus a handgun and abassault weapon. it just demonstrates the destruction between the two. >> you can barely see it. it did not exit the block. this is the right side of the block and it is turned upside down. we have a narrow channel where this came in about 4 inches, 3.5-4 inches. i actually lost the track or channel at about the 8 inch mark. this rifle is the ar 15, 24 inch barrel it is currently dialed in at 200 yards. there's the point of impact. didn't knock it off the table. a little bit right of where i wanted that to be but that is me, that is not the ammo. my tests prior to this were on target. i cut down right across the top of the block where i thought the wound channel might be and nailed it exactly. the first thing you notice is that deepest penetration point did not go more than 5 inches but there is a story in this area here. when the bullet started to expand and then massive expansion, you see that big track there. in that case, it is going up and down and to the sides. bullet fragments all over the place and some jagged fragments as well. i was hoping to find that tip, there it is right there in the middle. you can see it in the cavern. the other track looks the same. that is the real story. look at this massive cavity in this area. >> so the first portion of the video represents like a .22 handgun so the bullet goes in on a straight line track. where the second video, represents what happens with an assault rifle-type bullet and explodes inside the body. it causes more damage. in the military and that's the type of goal you have. but to have this in civilian population is -- i don't understand. that's the point of the video. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> i get where you're coming from. you see a lot of things that most people never see. mayor, what percentage of violent deaths involving a firearm in your city that are a result result of handguns versus rifles? >> thank you, senator. in 2012, 331 murders occurred in philadelphia. consistently over the last 10 years, murder has been committed with a gun or other hand gun or rifle type weapon. anywhere from 82-85% of murders are committed with a gun in philadelphia. >> nationally according to the 2011 numbers, 2.5% of homicides were committed with some form of a rifle. is that vastly different in philadelphia? >> i do have some numbers. a lot about the national picture. 331 murders last year, 282 committed with a handgun. 2 with a shotgun. this year, we have had 31 murders. 37% year to date. 25 with handguns, 2 with a shotgun, including yesterday morning. jennifer fit patrick, 37, mother of four tariff killed by her ex- boyfriend -- jennifer fitzpa trick, 37, mother of 4, killed by her ex-boyfriend. gun violence in major cities, i would only suggest handgun, rifle, shotgun -- dead is dead. >> i cannot agree with you more. the reason we have hearings like this is to paint a picture for america the problem we are trying to solve. i do not know what percentage of deaths are called by rifles and the philadelphia but nationally, it is to 0.5%. mr. hardy, you have done research on american ownership of ar 15s. do you think it would be a commonly used weapon? >> i believe it would be a weapon of common use at the time. the first research i included was 22% of all american rifle production is devoted to the ar 15 platform. those are companies that only make ar 15s. then you have other companies that make that and other arms. but back to the background check, he is not into chasing paper. if you have 76,000 people fail and background check and only 13 people plead guilty, i am not sure we are sending the right signal to our citizens at large that we are really serious about trying to get it. 19% of the people who failed the background check birth egotist from justice. my point is if we are only -- we should be going after those folks. no matter how you feel about guns. we should be going after those folks. is this legislation, would it require a background check if i sold the gun to my neighbor? >> i do not know this bill specifically relates to that but proposals i have seen would say yes, you would have to go through a dealer. >> about self-defense, you familiar with the case in atlanta? entered a-- a man house with a crowbar. the mother was at home with two daughters. she took them up to the second floor and hit in a closet. the intruder followed up and open the closet door. she had a big shot revolver, was on the phone with her husband. she hit him fiver six times -- five or six times. in a situation like that, would you object to the mother having a 20 mt. clip? >> no. and i am familiar with it. i heard about it. the question i had was if you follow them upstairs, what was his intent? >> we will never know what he was up to. it ended in a way with the family was safe. we all agree to no one who is mentally unstable to have one bullet with any gun. the point is how to make sure we balance keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people abbas to just in some situations, six bullets is not enough for a person defending their family and one bullet in the hands of the wrong person is way too many. that is what we are trying to accommodate here. there is a debate about self- defense. if there is a natural disaster somewhere, there are three homes. a home without a gun, with a shotgun and with an ar-15. if there is a gain of roaming around the neighborhood, what home is best protected in a situation like that? >> i would say the one with the go15, but you don't have to to a hypothetical. i have been in a situation where you need it it, i live miles from the mexican border. i was within 5 miles with a rancher were working on a court case. he had a pistol, i had a pistol and an ar-15 in the car and i felt under armed. if you encounter a drug cartel, you will need more than that. >> vice president biden has made the case that if you live in a wooded area and have a double barrel shot gun to ward off the bad guys, outside and fire a couple of shots. he also said that there is a national disaster, a shotgun is a preferred weapon over the ar- 15 for self-defense. i would say reasonable people can disagree on that. >> thank you center. u, senator. i like to try to keep the time line. senator durbin. correct thinking. i listened to the arguments on the other side. he said let's not rush into this to quickly two years ago and member of the united states house of representatives was shot in the face in tucson. we did not even hold a hearing on that. do not rush into this too quickly. when you look at what is happening in city after city, we are not rushing into this too quickly. we are coming into late for a lot of these victims. the second point made by some argue against the effort, laws are going to solve all the problems. many people just disregard whatever we do. no law is going to solve all the problems. today people are speeding on highways despite laws saying they should not theory does that mean we do not try? we do not make an effort at this? the thing that bothered me the most with the argument we have to take care and be careful to protect the rights all law abiding citizens. to protect the rights of law- abiding citizens. mr. heslin, i walked into the room when that video was on. there were people up there using ar-15s. flashed on the screen right after one of them was the word "fun." i thought about that. and i thought about your rights. to be safe, in a schoolroom a in newtown, connecticut. what about the rights of the law abiding citizens who wear uniforms every day, who put their lives on the line for us? what about their rights? gett they have rights least equal to these under the second amendment? this is not an absolute right inside the professor johnson, i had been through law school a long time ago and law professors can dance around the top of the head of a pan. but when i listen to describe the senate amendment, it is a suicide pact. by your definition, what has been common in america is unacceptable in a civilized country. [applause] >> i made it very different point, senator. >> if it is, in america to have a military assault weapon with a 100 round magazine, god save this country. >> i made a point about irrational -- [applause] >> to respond? my point was this legislation would make things worse on the measure of people who support it. it cannot be sustained ultimately. the supreme court will look at these classifications. >> let's read what they said. they said -- the court held the second amendment preserves access to firearms in common use and not dangerous or unusable for the purpose of self-defense. are you ordering the ar-15 -- the ar-15 is at ing common weapon used for self- defense? you have been excluded by heller. >> the point of this analysis conducted in 2009 was there is a necessity for creating a category of exceptional is them to reclaim the ar-15 -- feeding a category of the exceptional was some -- creating a category of exceptionalism. all the claims made are better demonstrated by the shotgun. if you go before the supreme court with that what you would have is a piece of legislation that generates more demand for the type of gun you are trying to ban that ultimately he will have the same failure. >> my time is running out. i believe this chair has made a good-faith effort. if you look at the number of weapons in exception to her categories, there is no law- abiding sportsmen are hunter or person who wants a gun for self- defense who would be left on armed under the second amendment in illinois or anywhere in the united states. there is ample opportunity for applying the second amendment. the court said the could be reasonable in drawing these standards. this is not feel good legislation. i am sorry you use that phrase. i cannot feel good about being here today. we are trying to make this country sick and we are giving our best effort. >> i understand as someone who has a husband at judiciary square. i also understand that the criminals by definition cannot all but a lot. when you take away the guns people have to protect themselves, law-abiding citizens are left on arms. >> i am sure you will support universal background checks. >> if you want to fix that system first, i would love to have an opportunity to discuss that with the. -- that with you. >> thank you. i want to thank all the witnesses for being here today. jesse sounds like he was a remarkable young boy. in your testimony, i read that the last words he said were run or run now. and that he was shot -- >> he was shot two times in the head. that was not the fatal shot. he was one of five students in his class killed. 10 of those students survive. it was stated by several surviving student debt jesse yelled "run, run now." >> he was coming -- >> the fatal shot was in his forehead. it exited behind the hairline. he looked at adam lanza in the ye eye. he did not run, he did not turn his back. >> i wanted thank you for your courage to be here a dentist by of how painful it is. you and your family, all the families here. we are trying to do what we can do to save lives. i talked about this in my opening statement. imagine this, i imagine that. so far in the record, i have not seen one example of an ar-15 used for self-defense. i have been asked to imagine it. to a match in hypothetical situations and i can but i have not heard one example on the record. this is the third hearing. mayor nutter, as the understand it -- as i understand it, police are more often targeted by assault weapons than the victims of assault weapons. what is the reality? >> the idea these weapons are for self-defense is based on our -- based on our experience is of certification. they are self offensive weapons. someone come pull out from wherever they want to pull it out from a . to weeks ago, a guy came in to rob a store. the owner was in the back. the guide pointed the gun at his wife, pulled off the ground and the owner shot the individual with his gun. he did not have an ar-15. from time to time, these things happen. what we see on the streets, when he was shot without assault type weapon, it almost cut him in half. his fellow officers had to drag him and place him in a car and watched him to the hospital. i was in that hospital with his family, holding his wife, talking to his kids. and sang to them, i'm sorry, he did not make it. to them, i amtsaying sorry, he did not make it. two guys shot him with an automatic weapon. i have to talk to his mother about that. patrick mcdonald, shot multiple times with a weapon with a person standing over him. after having been shot in the head by that person, not down and jump back up to do with the criminal. but as the reality. this is not theory. this is not a case study. people died. that's what happens. i go to every hospital scene. i have mothers without their sons who serve us. wives without their husbands. that is the reality of what is going on. no one has ever been able to explain why a civilian should have is military-style assault weapon and for anything other than the military or law enforcement. i have never heard a legitimate explanation. [applause] >> my thanks to all the witnesses here today for your testimony. dr. begg, my objective and many of my colleagues here today is to show that your mom is right. this time is different. we will do something. the reason is different is that newtown changed america. if change to me and you and others here today. -- it changed me and you and others here today. mayor nutter, no city can do it alone. our state borders are as well. that is why we have led the effort to stop illegal trafficking because a national standard is required. but has been a lot of debate about statistics and numbers. we do not have enough research on gun violence in this country. opponents of gun violence protection have placed restrictive constraints on the research that can be done by federal agencies began collecting and analyzing research about gun violence. research has been barred by restrictions placed by congress. do any of you feel we have enough research and we should not do any more on the issue of gun violence? i am asking whether anybody disagrees we need more research. >> i agree we need more research. this is a public health issue. 30,000 people a year die. the top four reasons -- cancer, heart attack, strok and traume. e and trauma. the data out there is clear. if you own a gun, you are five times as likely to die from suicide or to have your partner kill you. we need more research. >> i defended our assault weapon ban in connecticut and won. the vast majority, i did not know of any court in differing with the rulings made by a federal court on the assault weapon ban that existed before 2004, upheld it. do you know of any decision by a district court that strike down an assault weapon ban? >> make a distinction between me pre-heller world and now? do you know of a letter written by 50 constitutional law professors including people like eric's are -- like eric po sner that say restrictions on the manufacture and sale of high capacity ammunition magazines and assault weapons are also consistent with the second amendment. >> i am aware of that letter and i know many of the folks on that list. but most did not spend more than a couple of hours kinking about this issue. i have spent decades on this. >> let me ask another question. i am sure they would differ on the amount of time is spent thinking about this issue before they signed the letter. >> it is about whether they thought this through. with all the respect, in the arguments i have done before the united states supreme court defending state statute and sometimes the action of state officials, the first two propositions out of my mouth where the courts have a responsibility to deem constitutional, september jim -- to deem constitutionally valid act of the legislature. and legislators are not required to solve all the problems at once. they can take incremental steps. i would submit that the rational basis test, whether an assault weapon ban and prohibition on high-capacity magazine is rationally related to the end of preventing gun violence is sufficiently established by the testimony we have had here today. a decision by court striking down the statute that has been proposed would be deemed constitutionally incoherent. you have used that word incoherent. to describe the legislation that has been proposed here. i think that is disrespectful to the committee. i think it is plain wrong. if you have suggestions for how to improve its, and this goes for any of the members of this panel, we would welcome it. our ultimate objective is to help save lives. the kind of carson has been described so eloquently by mayor nutter and mr. flynn and mr. heslin. as many articles as you and attorney hardy may have written, i do not think you have had the personal experience firsthand of seeing how dangerous these weapons are. my hope is perhaps you will be more supportive. and think america is on our side on this issue. america knows this time is different. [applause] >> could i respond? may.s, you make your >-- you >> we are not on different sides. we are all trying to figure out how best to be safe. my explicit testimony referenced the joint service combat shotgun program report. my point was with respect to the incoherence that the claims being made by the committee and others that justified the prohibited category were better descriptions of guns in the non prohibited category. that is the incoherent i am describing. that kind of incoherence, and classification whose justification's, will not hold justification's is the point of the rational basis. the other thing to point out about the heller decision, it requires more than rational basis. it is not an automatic deference to whatever legislature does. now we're talking about a constitutional right. we end up with the supreme court potentially looking at this question, making a determination about whether these distinctions and classifications between the ar-15 and all the things on a good gun list, whether they are rational. at the court says, they are says you will have legislation that has accelerated in a gym at equate the purchases and number in inventory of that gun you're trying to eliminate. >> thank you very much. >> i recognize we will be evicted from his room but i am sure we will continue this conversation and i hope it is continued constructively helping to prevent gun violence. >> thank you, senator blumenthal. i want to say couple of things. i drafted the earlier legislation in 1993. i believe it did make a difference. i do believe it did just begin to dry up the supply. i think it would be judged, this piece of legislation, constitutional. the prior piece of legislation went to the 4th, 6th and 9th circuit and the d.c. circuit. it was sustained everywhere. even with heller, i see no regular use of an ar-15, a common use in society. it may be a small group of people that use it for target practice or god forbid for hunting. but the irreparable damage that is done to bodies from this weapon and other high velocity rifles, that hears people's bodies apart, i do not know why as a matter of public policy we cannot say they do not belong. is this legislationno this. well i welcome help -- is this legislation perfect? no. do i welcome help? if you have suggestions on how to approve -- on how to improve, give us suggestions. i believe the american people are for saying that weapons designed for war did not belong on the streets of our cities. mayor nutter, i became mayor in 1978. the common carrier for a police officer was a .38 revolver and them one day in los angeles, the police work out gunned in a robbery. they had to break into a gun store to get guns that were sufficient to meet. so it has been racked up -- been ratched up. sandy hook is an example of the unparalleled and backed to families -- the unparalleled impact to families, children, teachers. it is hard to understand how anybody can defend. that defend -- can defend that candidly. thank you. mr. heslin, thank you. with help from the people of america, we might be able to pass that. it is an uphill job all the way but i believe we are right, you believe we are right and we will continue to fight. thank all of you for being here. it is very much appreciated. this meeting is adjourned. thank you. [applause] >> i leave the record open for statements. and the two letters will be entered into the record. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] but >> steinbeck had to write a small paragraph that said people are asking what happened. when he said we, it is elaine and john, not charlie and john. somebody must have said where is charlie? he wrote about a page in the half saying people ask what happened to charlie. when my lady join me in seattle, charlie took his third position. he is fine. that never appeared attentive the book. the editors expunged elaine entirely from the west coast. almost 30 days of elaine's presence with john on the west coast. there were not camping out, are studying america. they were basically on a vacation. >> the author contends john steinbeck took many liberties with the shift in travels with charley that it cannot be classified as nonfiction. more with the author sunday at 8:00 on q&a. >> vice president biden talked about the obama administration's agenda on gun violence at a meeting today of the national association of attorneys general. the white house has proposed universal background checks for handgun purchases, and banning high-capacity magazines and introducing a federal gun trafficking law. this is 40 minutes. [applause] >> thank you very much. i appreciate your introduction and i am delighted to be here. it is to not only in this organization but in washington, i am known as jill's husband. in delaware, i am not known in the war -- known anymore and dad.i'm known as bo's you mentioned the train. there is only one thing to my benefit with this sequester we are about to face. it is been decided by me that -- the secret service does not let me traveling back and forth to delaware on a train. to many opportunities for people to interact with me in a way that would not like to see them interacting. so they find me back and forth. -- they fly me back and forth but i miss going to baltimore and maryland. when i was a senator i traveled 7,940 times from delaware to washington and back. the only thing that has allowed me to get back on the train now is to say i have to take it, it is cheaper to fly. so i get to take the train again. i want to thank you again. during my career, i worked closely with nag for many years. i have the distinction and blame of being either the author or co-author of every major piece of criminal legislation that has passed through the congress. not a single one of those bills from 1994 through what we're dealing with now has occurred without the help and cooperation of nag. i mean that sincerely. i have been here multiple times but i have called on he more than i suspect and the chairman of that committee ever has. this organization has played a vital role in the passage of every significant piece of legislation that came out of that committee. i know your agenda as long and you have had a chance to hear from my good friend erik and tony west and tom curry, richard cordray. they have all discussed it variety of issues on your plate every day. the rubber meets the road. you are accountable at home and you have had the chance to speak. but i am here in the same capacity i have been over the last 40 years. i am here to ask for your help. to ask for your input. on an issue that has seized the attention of the american people, one that demands responsible action. gun safety. all of you, unlike any other elected or appointed official of the deer state, are cloaked with a moral of political credibility of no other. the attorneys general office and in each state, each of you are able to operate in an area that is not viewed as a partisan bloodbath. you are doing things that fundamentally affect the health and safety of the people of your state. you have more moral clout. this is a fact. is the responsibility as well. -- this is a responsibility as well. and i need your advice and help. i mean necessarily. the advice i asked for -- i want to invite you -- any ideas you have about what i propose to the president, in a constructive criticism you have, i am anxious to hear. ask any of your predecessors. they will tell you i mean what i say. no one has ever doubted that i mean what i say. the problem is i tend to say all that i mean. [laughter] that puts me in trouble. except in mississippi. [laughter] all of you sense in your bones, particularly jb in wisconsin, tom in arizona, you all feel in your bones what the american people understand, but the tragedy of sandy hook elementary school has bought to the fore. nothing in my career has had such a profound impact on the psyche of the american people. columbine, virginia tech, tucson, aurora, these senseless slaughters. the american people want to a lease know we are aware of how unacceptable that behavior is. i would like to point out that when i passed -- authored the first assault weapons ban and limitation on clips, pat monahan stood on the floor and said, holding up a copy of newspapers all across the country -- it front pages of every paper. he made -- he held up the front page of the new york times. he went to b47. i am making up the exact pays but it was a article about a family being wiped out in the bronx in their apartment. he said it made page 47 in a paragraph this big. he said this is defining deviancy down. after aurora, columbine, virginia tech, ib egin to -- i begin to wonder whether we were defining deviancy down by the way we talked about it or did not talk about it. sandy hook changed all that. 20 innocent babies, riddled with bullet holes. where the press not here, i could tell you what is not public get about how gruesome it was. i met with the state troopers who were on the scene. an impact on them has been profound. some of them understandbly needing some help. the senseless act not only shocked the conscience of the american people but i believe it-changed and galvanized the attitude of the american people and demanding concrete action. i have been doing this for a long time. the public has changed. the excuse that is that -- that it is too too politically risky to act is no longer acceptable. we cannot remain silent. we have to become the voices of those 20 beautiful children and 75 days ago they were killed. they cannot speak for themselves. you know better than any elected officials, we have to speak for more than 2000 people who have died just sense newtown. -- just since newtown. kaitlin, a kentucky woman shot and killed in a college parking lot after a domestic dispute. aiden, a 4-year-old boy caught in a drive by shooting in kansas city. a 15-year-old chicago coral who marched by the president and me on inauguration day -- chicago girl who watched by the president and me on the inauguration day, shot dead in a park sitting on aswing. like a little kid, and three of her friends. gangbangers decided that with their park -- that was their park. janae macfarlane. 25 people dead from gun homicides every day in this country. that does not count the scores of people whose lives have been irrevocably altered. let me say this as clearly as i can -- there are going to be a lot of voices in this debate. i am determined to make sure the loudest voice are of those we have lost. we have to speak to them and their families. enough is enough. we have an obligation to act. yesterday the people of the second congressional district of illinois spoke for the first time since newtown. voters said the clear signal. they chose among a field of qualified candidates the candidate who spoke for the need for rational gun safety legislation. the voters sent a message last night, not just to the nra but politicians around the country by electing robin kelly is a good strong for gun safety, totally consistent with our second amendment rights. they sent a message -- there will be a moral price as well as a political price to be paid for inaction. this is not 1994. people know to much. when the author the assault ban in 1994, i had to run the next year. i went up and down every creek ithat connected the chesapeake and delaware bay. they said i'm taking a shot gun away. they never ran against me for the assault weapons ban. they said biden was to take your shotgun. that kind of stuff does not work anymore. the public has been to sensitize. social media is too extensive. the organized opposition that was hoping the urges to be acting on gun safety would be diminished. one of the leading opponents of a large meeting recently said he expected the "connecticut affect to fade." jurors can tell you. it will never fade for the memories of the families who lost their children and loved ones in connecticut. it will never fade from the memory of the people of connecticut. i have noticed, look what the legislature did attend a colorado. what it's about to do in new mexico. it is a different time. i have news for them. to fade ining the memory of the american people. opponents are using the same tactic they have used against me and others for years relating to rational gun policy. in policy that does nothing to infringe on the second amendment. they throw up question after question not because they're looking for at this -- looking for answers but because they are looking to build a road blocks. they say what biden is recommended to the president and the president to the nation is we are going after law-abiding citizens. we are not. this assault weapons like the ar-15 are needed for self protection. . they . they say -- they say assault weapons like the ar-15 are needed for self protection. they are not. the facts are assault weapons and magazines with a 100 rounds are unnecessary and dangerous as they put law enforcement at risk by limiting them, it does not violate the settlement -- violate the said amendment. everything we have proposed is completely consistent with the second amendment rights of every american citizen. the court has ruled individuals have a right to own a weapon to protect themselves in their own home. that is constitutional law. these of the principles upon which i laid out these recommendations to the president. there are certain people who can constitutionally be disqualified from owning a gun -- criminals, people who are found dangerous to themselves or others. there are certain weapons you can constitutionally barred from being owned by individuals. this is not only about guns, it is about the coarsening of american culture, about school safety, mental-health. with all this in mind, i met with major cabinet members -- from the justice department to the education department, i said go and come back with the best ideas that have been shelled the last 10 years. let's look at the myriad -- that e ve been shelved th last 10 years. let's look at them. i met with groups comprising multiple member. 229 groups. governors, mayors, county executives, mental health experts, survivors of gun violence, religious groups, nra, gun owner groups, representatives from the movie and video gaming industry. and i spoke with many of you in this room. there is a generic consensus that emerged on several things. one, that we have to act and to, the nature of what that action should be. response i prepare for the president a document backed up by the best data available. the conclusions we reached were as follows -- this is where i need your advice and help. first, there is a need for universal background checks to the system is complete. what value is it if i'd laypeople who are under the law -- if 50 million people who are under the law and are deemed incapable of owning a weapon, what good is the system if their names are not in that system? it is bizarre. what good is it if like in pennsylvania, there are over five under thousand people under the law disqualified from being able to own a gun. only one of those names has been moved to the system. they are now all moved. what good does that do if we do not know? why are we kidding the american people, saying we are preventing people from being able to legally buy a weapon. if you have thousands of an adjudicated in state and local courts of being felons. the nra says they support the current background system which they know this not have the names of god knows how many. we don't know precisely. keep an eye on how they see the support it. initially said they support the system being realed. but the proposals as the market legislation in the senate -- as they mark up the legislation in the senate, they are so porous that it will allow a truck to be driven through the holes. load it with thousands of weapons. individuals who should not -- they can love with the system where there is a new version and you go on one and check with a qualifier. benigno to empire and say i am clear -- then you go to your buyer and say i am clear. they want the law to say no record can be kept. how would you know whether any of that transaction was real? safety we imporvrove and if we limit high-capacity magazines again. totally consistent with the second amendment rights. as mark kelly, debbie giffords has been will tell you -- giffords husband will tell you, had the shooter had 10 magazine rounds instead of 30, a little girl would probably be alive. when he tried to change the clip, all the officers -- i am not a bad shot. i was out of the secret service rains. probably took me close to 3 seconds to change the clip. under pressure, i do not know how i would have changed the clip. the truth is the number of rounds in that clip had been 10, she may have been alive. out andn reacvhehed knocked his arm. that is how the grab him. the number of rounds use in sandy hook was astounding. well beyond 10 rounds in those clips. had it been limited to 10, who knows. five of those kids may be alive. if you need 30 rounds in a clip, you should -- you should not be out there >> will have to increase the number of police number on the street. the arctic and off, put in a door. 50 people on the street. we had the quitter reduction of crime, including gun violence. violent crime is docked 33% while those of the crime committee has actually increased. sphere we have added the back 4000 and lifted the police program. it is not enough. it is what we are proposing an additional to support 15 doesn't mark local police and officers. to be deployed the way your officials believe they should be. we have to end the description that allows the most competent people to do research on gun violence. the idea that the cdc in atlanta cannot conduct researcher can i keep and statistics. , at the the best minds in america cannot keep research assembly dumbest -- ridiculous. then has been put on the writers of most of the ring appropriation bills since 2004. it makes no sense. when i get to the senate as a 19-year-old kid i was flattered coming from delaware that the general of general motors wanted to meet with me. i thought of as a pretty good deal. do you know with a wanted to talk about? a guy named rolf nadir had written a book named unsafe at any speed it up. they wanted make sure they in national safety council could not keep rituals -- the research on automobile accidents. everybody thought the reason you do not need is most people do that it did thrown into a wended shield. they fashioned a their skulls and in the post to going up. if you had a harness on, and that would save that. they found at the most people didn't know where they died when did that it. 85% were and killed by the steering,. the we now have the safest automobiles and the history of america. why? we have the fax. facts acquired by really bright people. sometimes they lead to solutions. we have lifted these solutions and are calling on congress to refund $7 million on research, not just on the community, we need to understand what many of you are talking to me about it. there is all kinds of speculation. people said, the fax people age an average of six hours a day playing on violent video games -- and they are marked mature. some of the cans are -- you have seen them an assault weapon with its hands up. how many such to get in a person. it to fit their head of to get a bonus. people speculate. is the impact on the formation of a young adolescent the brain? doesn't induce behavior? there are some studies, but there are now some serious did these. at the none of the answers. we need serious steadied. we need serious people. we need the nobel laureates of that area -- we have to look at them and informed that society should not be afraid of the facts. you have to ask, why do people and not want us to study this? why do they not want the best minds in the world to study this? >> we have talked to the department of education and the department of justice and human security. a development of a management plan is the best this of a calamity that has occurred within our schools. the one thing the federal government can do than any of your states, which can survey and get the best practices. not the man the state's practices. a bit everyone of you have been called by its " principal, the superintendent, a school board as a for your recommendation. what happens if i have a shooter in my school? what do i do? the other thing azusa give schools flexibility on and so close to score force officers. some of you have been about long the enough. when we used to have school resource officers. out of the bill. we propose another 1000 to make the point. this time we think you should be given flexibility. it has to be a shield. you can use it or if you decided that your district is not want an officer but it the psychiatrist or psychologist or the one a counselor or additional help in this school, you can use the money for that given the flexibility. we think the best way is to arm teachers with them from mission. teachers should be taught how to recognize the red lights they go off that everyone can point out to you are a warning sent there is a problem my wife teaches full-time and 15 critics of the community college. here is the deal what do we do? we teach teachers and administrators the first day. we teach them basic things. we should be teaching them the six sons as to how to recognize a behavior is a is of brent. not to write down, i think the kid has a problem but to make sure you have to them as well as to the parents and give them some help. have a list of where they can be sent and who they can tuck to. we asked for 20 million also help to ask for a program to do that. it is a consensus we need to make mental health services more available among our young people. you have to the staff people that are overqualified guys. they can tell the better than i can. there are a for him and 49 suicides last year and the united states military. i have ever assembled the show of to my work not to because the boat was and afghanistan. i have done this. exactly how many troops of died and eggs as fully how many troops were wounded. every single solitary one of those people has a family. everyone has affected a community. so far there are roughly 57, 6000 from the physics dead and 46 pheasant with it was civil war in the periods this wept. an estimate is 300,000 common form suspect vigo half a million. what happens now from friends going back? they know they have a problem so they call for help. no answer. we do not have enough forensic to read we do not have ineptness practitioners who have a background in psychiatry. we do not have enough. we, not just for them, we have taken back from the back log from hiring several thousand people quickly. we know people between the ages of 16-to defoe ages, we done this already leaked leslie to seek help and if they are poor at risk children, the age out at age 18. we need to fix that and i believe we can. the cost of mental health care, and the availability, and the stigma associated with seeking treatment for mental health, particularly in the area where you have gang bang visit of a deal with the streets and cities. with regard, we need to make insurance companies provide quality coverage as well as any other health. the thief of quality past and two dozen a demands that it is thelon now. you have already expended for millions of people through the affordable care act. we are working on new regulations above the law that will insure 62 million americans will not did it. later this year we have put in place regulation that will expend to tens of millions more with regard to the ability of personnel. we are proposing the train with specific skills they need to serve in our schools and communities. we need to do the same thing because we both share a border and the short. we were having shares in the '70's, 80's, 90's fitting to whoever it was. we put a bipartisan program the said we will help repay you tuition bills for medical school and held them pay them off and you commit to spend x number of time in the city that does that have a doctor. it worked. the same process here. we are incentivizing people to go into nurses and doctors to go into the health field. we need a broader national discussion. to many s as it did with that creature that looks as their lives because of the sense of shame and secrecy. we need to change minds and attitudes, it is does nothing the federal government can do in the background of. we need houses of worship and parents sending people, and the truth is we do not know enough above the brain works. and some cases people are skeptical because it did when they get helped, it does not work. that is with a $3 billion product over 10 years to map the the brain like we did the human genome to better understand it it. we know the least they bought it functions in. we are an advanced society. we cannot sit around and wait for these answers. and these are the things we must act on and all of the know even if we do these things become a guarantee there will not be in of that mass shooting. even if we do not cure all of these things with them a guarantee of a mother or father will not receive a phone call. we know we cannot save every life. we do know this. the american people are entitled to see their elected representative vote on every one of these issues. they are entitled to that. for each of us to be counted and let the public judge whether or not we did with this thought we should do. they believe they have a right to these votes. i believe -- only time will tell if it things will be better. fewer features will be stamped out. if we pass the laws, i think our children will be safer. even if it is only on the margins. assuming if it does not violate any but the's second amendment right? why would we not act? we are not talking about a lot of money. we are talking about a peace of mind it. i think we have to act. i think you all. got a blessing when you are doing. god bless the marriage is with us and everyone else who has been shot down. may god protect our troops. thank you very much. [applause] >> defense secretary check haggled talks to members of the pentagon. president obama talks about the spending cuts. the senate judiciary committee will take on the banning assault weapons. >> the problem with banning any book is that once the ban on one we do not know when it will stop. that the road takes us back to totalitarian states it has been banned it many times, especially in classrooms. simply because of the sometimes a parent does not understand the model. the-i read it. has been cases where the school boards or parents have asked to ban and the model. it turns out they just have not read it. words or a phrase, here or there or a paragraph, but i am glad in every instance where censorship of the model has happened, every instance that i know of, the parents, families have gone to the schools and said, look, this is our important to literature and the cannot ban because you pick a word or two or a paragraph. in every case, the bending has been overturned it. quirks more and censorship and the bandit groups as american tv looks behind the scenes of the liberace said today at noon on c-span to and c-span on c-span 3. >> the york mayor michael blumberg was of the white house to discuss gun violence after vice president by then. he spoke to reporters and commented on the sequester. >> a lot of things people wait until the last minute when they focus. that is when it is easier politically to do it. i guess i have always thought they will find some ways to mend the gate or postpone sequestering. sequestering was an idea that came out of six sitting 16 pennsylvania avenue and the senate and the house. this was something all of these elected officials but was a good idea. i find it fascinating they are trying to find it better for each other. they all have to live with it to. sequester is not a great way to be said what to cut the. i think what the original simpson the bill was much more rational. if you read it the bill, which as far as i know nobody another round here, if you had read the read it you would find it had tax increases and real cuts that would have been in the paper. you could do exactly the same thing that. we have to find ways to do more with less or and in the waistband of laws. spending less and means that you cannot do everything you want. there are not enough people that said, there is corruption and waste. it probably cost the more to find it. let's get serious. the entitlements of going to back rip us. we have to find ways to do it. >> are you worried abut the impact of new york? >> i think on monday we will be able to police the chiefs so there is a fire engine their response. teachers will be an affront of the classroom. it is something that takes a while to implement. when you make contracts, when you have employees who cannot just reassigned them or eliminate them, there are a lot of things that take a long time. new york city does not get an enormous amount of money. i think $12 billion from the federal government, which is protected. there is a lot of posturing, which will lay off my employees today unless you do something. we will take them and put them on the streets. i live in that world. let's get serious. it is not good for the country. we need to have the white house and the democrats to come together and intelligently find ways to reduce the deficit. and not with a meat ax. it has to be carefully thought out. that is the advantage of some symbols because they did things get out. sequestering is just mean accent it it is hard to see if they had a conference and one for you, we will get him because he made before, that is not a ways to make decisions. we are playing with the future of this country. sequestering is that the only problem we are selling our birthright and committing national suicide because companies are moving jobs overseas, it is not cheaper in most places, it is because kids oversees of better education. they are catching up at an alarming rate. immigration is something we have to have temporary seasonable workers to be engineers to start companies. i was talking to the governor of michigan last night. it is a body toward and whether he could try to raise money to help the school systems. i have never met him before, but he understands unless we do something here to give the kids a better education to make the streets safer and to give people a present to come, which is cultural institution, not parts and amenities, we are not going to have the future. i will walk away pleased, optimistic, is so and that any delusion this is a slam dunk or if it is already in the bag. i think it is something the time is coming. if not now it will be later. the difference is there will be a lot more people murdered between now and later. there really is not any time to waste to be think about it in that context. >> chopped hegel talked abut the sequestered and its effect on the military. his nomination was approved on tuesday in a narrow vote with 41 republicans voting against him the 24th defense secretary. >> a couple of hours ago i to the oval it is a great honor and a privilege. yes, for me, for my family, but to be part of your team, who you are is the honor. that is the great corolla. you are not joining my team, i am joining your team. i will need to do how proud i am of the opportunity the president has given me. i will tell you as i told the president and as a told the congress, i but do everything in my power to be the leader who you expect, you deserve. the kind of litter the country expects and deserves we are living in a defining time in the world. it is it difficult time. it is at time of tremendous challenge. there are opportunities. i think this will important we stay focused on our jobs, but not lose sight of the possibilities for a better world. if there is one thing america has stood for is, we are force for good. we make mistakes and have made mistakes. we are a force for good. we should never, ever forget that in which to keep that out in front as much as any one thing that drives us every day. budget, sequestration, i do men need to dwell on the good news, there. that is a reality. you are doing that and have been doing that. we are in need to deal with this reality we have a head of as a lot of challenges. they are going to be fine much of who we are. but the institution only, but our country. what kind of a world our children will inherit. that is the base hollins that we have. that is the bigger picture of the objective for all of us. yes, it is difficult. but it is also a pretty special. when you think about generations and company have had an opportunity to be part of something great. what difficulty this is, with challenging coming in every direction you know all of them to read but we can really do something special for our country. i have said to the congress, the president, secretary of defense, i would the everything i can to ensure the safety, well-being, future, of you, your families. i want to mention for a moment families. i think the families are always in a difficult spot they are left behind in dealing with a lot of uncontrollable we are doing our job. the conduces us. that is good. but the families have a tough time. it is also important to know you so rick commuted to and have also told the congress that assuring every person and it the department of assisted defense, civilian with a military is, absolute did treated fairly, honestly, equal benefits, everything they to be doing i have always believed america's berle is one that we have had variations throughout history. we have had one that should in its field world. we cannot dictate to the world, but we must engage. we must lead with our allies. they are particularly important. no nation can do any of this alone. we need to continue to build on strong relationships we have built. my friends and its predecessors, leon panetta have the bulk upon the foundation. not just within the entire aids to stations here about teamwork, but team mark without ice. we renew old alliances. we find it new alliances based on common interests of old people. there will be differences. we have great power. how we apply our power is important. the engagement in in the world should be done wisely. the resources we have employed on behalf of our country and allies should always be applied wisely. the world looks to america for leadership. when you look at the turbulent times we're going through, the one institution that still maintains a stunning credibility of confidence and trust is this institution. the military and all of those associated with that. every year they take the 15th largest institutions in america. we are way up there. there is a reason for that. the reason is that essentially would you have done, you are on confidence and you can trust. it is not given a way nor should it ever be given a way. you have done that through your sacrifices. we do not want to squander that. we can use that to rebuild all of the necessary institutions. the world can look to this institution has won the can have confidence and entrust. i will do everything in my power to continue to build on what secretaries panetta and the gates have begun to build, and will you are all beginning to build it to read as a said earlier, leadership as a team business. it is not about the leaders. it is above the team. this morning after a i was sworn and, i reflected a bit about what happened on that day. into pheasant won. i was on capitol hill at the time. everybody remembers where you were a. 9:37 in the morning on september 11 did thousand one. i remember where i was. that was a jarring exxon. he go back 22 years ago. 22 years ago tomorrow and a 1991, february 28, the end of desert storm. if you take this two events and start choking this, not unlike history, you start to see a picture the march of different kinds of threats, new threats, and there will be more and new threats. it gives you a dimension when you back up a little bit and a understand that it gives us a dimension of what is going on in the world. our budget caps here. if nothing else what you are dealing with and we are all being with it. dollars is coming down. the uncertainty of the planning. did the uncertainty of what is coming ahead. people are the most important to research of any institution to read you always take care of your people first. you have done a tremendous job of that. you take care of your people. i say to you, i will do everything within my power to be worthy of you and be worthy of this country and do everything i can to make sure our people are taking care of it. the proudest times in the mine use is in when a friend, whose mental low time, he co-authored the g i e 11 build. having nothing to do with me, i was proud of that because we were able to get two world war i two of veterans, a democrat and republican, jim webb and come up two veterans. the week of the votes and we passed the bill. that is the way things should work because the objective was not to give jim webb or check cable any credit, but the objective was to do something for the party or the people who sacrificed, and served, and deserved. this kind of recognition -- i say that because much of of my life has been the but doing everything i could in some way to help veterans and their families. whatever it was. so cut of that then any businesses i have been involved in. i am proud of my background and mike to review. nothing has ever made me prouder than-decision but the veterans. a again, and to each of you in this room, those of you watching this a round the world, i say, at thank you. thank you for your service and sacrifices. i will do everything i can to be worthy of a first-class worth and his family and everybody in this building and a look forward to working with you. you will always know you have a secretary of defense that will deal straight with you. i will be honest and direct. at will expect the same from you. i will never asked anybody to do more or less than i do. that is the story of your lives. i would not be worthy of that was not the case. t with for this opportunity. i am of group krupp to be under team. now, i have to go to work. thank you. >> ladies and a gentleman, this concludes today's event. please stand for the secretary of defense. >> at one point he had to write a small paragraph that said, people are asking what happened. when he says we, in it is not charlie and john. or asdy must've said, charlie? he must have disappeared it? people have amassed what happened? when my lady asked the tickets editors went in and it's munster and terribly from the west coast almost 30 days of elaine's presents with john on the west coast. there were night camping out or studying america. there were a having a vacation. >> it cannot be classified as nonfiction, and more with the author on sunday at it o'clock on c-span's q and a." >> president obama commented on automatic spending cuts known as the sequesters set to begin on friday. he asked business leaders to but pressure on congress to read his remarks of from the business council dinner on march and 10, d.c. >> please, i did nothing there but did the music. thank you very much for your introduction enter leadership. i want to say hello to everybody. many of you i have known for a very long time. let me say at the top that i always like to emphasize what i have to speak to our leadership leaders. i am reading for your success. what is true is when your companies are thriving and your bottom line is where it needs to be, the possibilities of jobs and growth and that people having their dreams are enhanced. after four years of difficult times, we have seen a steady recovery is not as robust as we would like to read we have seen 6 million jobs created over the last of the five months. housing is beginning to recover. there is reason for optimism as we move forward everybody is concerned but the uncertainty in terms of the political from work, the tax from work, the debt from work in which all of you will be operating under the next several years. right now, the biggest manifestation of that is the potential for a sequestered the kicks and starting at the end of this week. i should point out to, i am sure you have for from a number of experts, this is not a clef. it is a tumble downward. it is conceivable in the first week or two which a two weeks or months that unless your business is directly related to the defense department, and unless you live in a town that is directly impacted by a military installation, unless you are a family that is try to figure out where to keep the kids during the day because he just lost headstart slot, a lot of people may not notice the full impact of the sequestered. but this is going to be a big hit on the economy. both private sector as well as public sector economists are estimating we could lose as much as six tenths of a point, maybe even more of economic growth and that means inevitably hundreds of thousands of people will -- who would not get jobs of of of was will give them -- you have your customers, money in their pockets ready to buy your goods and services. the global economy will be weaker of the we have obviously a long way to go in recovery, we are doing significantly better than some of the other developed nations. the worst part of it is, it is entirely unnecessary. it is not what we should be doing. i have said this before, and i will say it again and the board repeating it. if you look or not at what the economy needs, taking $85 billion out of it over the next few months and taking arbitrarily out of it, without a strategy behind it, that is not a smart thing to do if we are serious about making sure america grows and the middle class a thriving and there are opportunities in the middle class. what we should be doing, what i have been calling for over the last several years is a balanced approach to deficit reduction the combines tough spending cuts, particularly focused on how do we deal with long-term entitlement programs? and a tax reform agenda could in fact raise revenues the combined this would bring our deficit to 3% below that we need for stabilization. it would stabilize our give it to tepee ratios to me for the next decade. and it would lay the ground or for more expensive because we would have implemented our tax system by broaden our base, see an opportunity for corporate that is what we should be doing you will the that is what i offered to my republican friends back in december after my election before the fiscal cliff. many were of of of voicing support for a balanced the torrid and with the scent of forever detail that continues to be the offer on the table pureed i am prepared to make some tough decisions. some of that well, a significant frustration on the part of members of my family. what i cannot do is to abide by a set of decisions made by washington that will put the entire deficit reductions pesetas. that is not what we are going to do because it would not be good for the country or to business. the question becomes, how do we get from here to there. i was saying, the issue is not technical. the issue is political. whether or not we're going to see a willingness on the part of all parties to compromise in a meaningful way. that means democrats have to accept the need for a testament to reform. it also means republicans have to accept the need for additional revenues if we're going to actually close the deficit and provide certainty that you need to make long-term investments. whether that can be done in the next few days, i have not seen things done in two days and it was sometime. on the other hand, the good news the thing the public is paying attention to this. i am sure the country is wary of washington presiding over a manufactured a crisis over three months. it is not good for business confidence or consumer confidence. it is on necessary. my stronghold is that we can once and for all resolve this and a with equitable and in a way that is focused on growth and in a way divides' opportunity or everybody in the country will lead to work hard regardless of for this come from barbara country they come from. it is right there. is there were there for the taking. i strongly believe that if the business community speaks out for is sensible, balanced responsible approach, eventually, it will get done. i think it was winston churchill's said, americans always do the right thing after the exhausted every other possibility. we are getting to the point we exhausted every other possibility. i am confident that what was true for our country in the past will be true in the future. let me open up and take some questions. >> on the next "washington journal," the next spending cuts set to begin on friday. adam smith serves as ranking member of the armed services committee. your e-mails, phone calls, and two weeks, live at 7:00 eastern and c-span. -- two weeks on 7:00 east -- c- span. >> he was a very decisive man. people think of him as a grand fatherly pleasant man with the winning this smile and is the rest. behind the smile was some of very icy blue eyes. when he left at the crisis, he made the decisions that did not have liabilities some decisions made at the top or emotionally. he never made in emotional decision. he never allowed emotions to control and one in big decisions had to be made. >> part of american tv's history at 3:00 eastern on c-span. >> committee members heard testimony from the father of a child on the school shootings and from law enforcement officials and gun rights attorneys. this is 3.5 hours. >> i am going to call this meeting to order because i want to welcome our witnesses and people interested in the subject to have taken the time to be here. it is very much appreciated. the process will be this. i will make a statement. we will go to our first government to witnesses. the seventh panel. we will ask witnesses to confine their remarks as much as they can to 5 minutes or so. on the committee we will follow the early bird rule which is first rule we will call on them to ask questions and five minutes in rounds. i will begin with my statement. on december 14, 20 sets of parents received a call. they will never see their son or daughter again. earlier that day a deranged killer and armed with a high capacity ammunition magazines shot his way into sandy hook elementary school in new town and released a rapid hail of bullets selling 20 children, mostly six-year olds in in just a handful of minutes it took for law enforcement to respond to the scene. that shocked our nation to its roots and the pictures of the victims price is to the children of millions of americans. we are holding the hearing because it was said they not an anomaly. from the 1966 shooting rampage at the university of texas to the new town massacre, we have witnessed an increasing number of the mass killings. since 1982 there have been 62 mass shootings across the united states and the have been accelerating in recent years. 25 have occurred since 2006 and seven to place in 2007 -- 2012. the one common thread running through the mass shootings from colorado through tucson, arizona to virginia is the gun man used a molest peristyle semiautomatic assault weapon or a large capacity ammunition magazine to commit unspeakable terror. we have with us today victims of the shooting in -- new town. please send with this for a brief moment. we will also have with us law enforcement officers from a round the country have to travel to support our efforts to ban a monastery -- military assault weapons including the police of north ridge, calif., vail, calif., ill., wesley massachusetts, baltimore county, md., ore., waverly, pa., the universities of central florida, was again, and mcdaniel colleges and the leaders of the state police in new york and rhode island. wooded these and other law- enforcement officers stand and be recognized. thank you very much. we cannot allow the conference to continue without taking action on what is a serious a matter of public policy. that is why i have joined with many colleagues, some on this committee, as well as many others of the committee to introduce legislation to prohibit the sale, transfer, manufacture, and importation of assault weapons and high- capacity magazines. as members of this committee know, we enacted a ban on assault weapons and high- capacity magazines that i authored in the senate and schumer of sen -- sponsored in the house in 1994. that law had a 10-year sunset and congress failed to renew it in 2004. since the ban expired over 350 people have been killed with assault weapons. over 450 have been wounded and the weapons are more lethal today than they were in 2004. let me give you an example and you can watch this on the screen. you can buy a bonfire stock legally, but you insert into the other assault or rifles -- this is legal. it is my cosmetic and it allows a semi-automatic firearm to be fired as squarely as an automatic firearm machine the gun that has been banned for decades. i would like to show this weapon firing. with the slide in at. thank it has the versatility a low fire rates plus very high fire rates.
here is a recent political ad from the state of alabama. i know, the alabama thing makes it already semi-racist, but let's withhold judgment. - i'm tim james. why do our politicians make us give driver's license exams in 12 languages? this is alabama, we speak english. if you wanna live here, learn it. we're only giving that test in english if i'm governor. [audience ohs] - is it racist? uh, yeah. that's really, really racist! "this is alabama, we speak english." if you consider "hey diddy, there's a june bug on your corn pone" english, then i guess so. but at least they're not being racist towards black people for once. so way to go, alabama. baby steps. tell tim james what you think by tweeting him at timjames2010. [chuckles] that's gonna work out. see you next week. y'all come back now, you hear? [cheers and applause] captioning by captionmax www.captionmax.com [eagle caw] >> stephen: tonight, big changes for texas. their 10-gallon hats are now 38-liters. [laughter] then, can our drone program win the war on terror? yes, if you go up, up, down down, b, a, b, a, select. [laughter] and my guest, physicist michio kaku believes an asteroid could destroy the earth. global warming, solved. [laughter] ice land is considering a ban on internet porn. now there's nothing to do in iceland. [ laughter ] this is the colbert report." captioning sponsored by comedy central ( theme song playing ) ( cheers and applause ) [cheers and applause] welcome to the report, everybody. thank you so much for joining us. [cheers and applause] [crowd chanting "stephen!"] thank you, ladies and gentlemen, please sit down. [cheers and applause] welcome to the show, everybody. thank you for joining us. [cheers and applause] thank you, everyone in here welcome to the program. dominus vobiscum. folks, as the cardinal of cable, i'm giving you nave to narthex coverage of pope benedict's resignation in my new series "popewatch: inde-schism 2013." [cheers and applause] remembers -- remembers folks -- remember, it has been over 700 years since anyone has voluntarily depoped themselves. [laughter] well, buckle your chausable, because there are dramatic new developments. we all know that when a cardinal is elevated to the papacy, he becomes the heir of st. peter there choose a new name. so, naturally, now that benedict xvi is leaving office, he has asked that we call him simply: benedict the xvi. [laughter] okay. okay. that's understandable. he doesn't want to have to get new towels and stuff. [laughter] but that's not all. he says he's still going to be pope emiritus and his holiness, continue to wear the white robes and live in the vatican. [laughter] folks, that means there's going to be two pontiffs. we're one pope over the line-- sweet jesus, one pope over the line. [laughter] [cheers and applause] it'll be chaos. you can't have one vatican with two popes. it's like gotham with multiple batmans. [laughter] you shine the bat signal, all these clowns show up. [laughter] i mean -- [cheers and applause] holy sausage fest! [laughter] [cheers and applause] after all, i mean -- i mean, which one's infallible? say you're having a smoke break in the apse, and the two of them start walking towards you from different directions. you're getting double-poped-- [laughter] you know d-p'ed-- [cheers and applause] think about this -- which pope do you bow to and which one do you just go "sup?" [laughter] and imagine the confusion in the breakroom fridge when there's more than one yogurt labeled "pope." [laughter] i'm so worried. i'm so worried about this. as an observant catholic, ---6- but, to the man's credit, he's not holding onto all the trappings of power. >> he'll trade in his famous red shoes, the prada red shoes, for a pair of hand-crafted brown loafers out of mexico. >> stephen: okay, red shoes are gone. meaning he is no longer able to transport himself to kansas. [ laughter ] and this is significant, i think he's losing the symbol of his office. >> on february 28th, they will take away his ring. the symbol of his authority and destroy it. >> stephen: so, i guess it is over and i'm worried about nothing. because there shouldn't be any problem with a really old person losing his ring of power. [laughter] he looks good. nation, if there's one thing the reelection of barack obama proved, it's that demographic shifts are making it harder for the gop to win nationally. apparently in 2012, minority voters just didn't connect with the republican message of "stop thief!" [laughter] the man behind obama's minority outreacharound was jeremy bird, [laughter] who focused on face-to-face communication with core obama support groups, nonwhites unmarried women, and millennials. because we know how much millennials love two face-to-face communication. [laughter] well, now bird has set his sights on a new target. >> team obama's former national field director jeremy bird, one of the masterminds behind the president's reelection victory has decided his next job will be turning texas blue with a new grassroots organization battleground texas. >> you're not considered one of the battleground states. although that's gon' be changing soon. >> stephen: yeah, that's 'gon' be changing even faster than obama's accent! [laughter] [cheers and applause] nation, this means the democrats are messing with texas! a, i believe that's unconstitutional, and b, i believe it might work. >> texas is one of four majority minority states, and its 9.5 million hispanics, currently 38% of the population. >> just 4.1 million hispanics are registered to vote, and only about half make it into the voting booth. >> stephen: which means if jeremy bird can get these minorities to the polls texas republicans may soon be saying the spanish word for "adios." [laughter] so can this jeremy bird character enact his sinister plan to win the next election through the dirty, underhanded trick of voting? [laughter] here to tell me is the field director of obama 2012 and the founder of battleground texas jeremy bird. jeremy, thanks so much for joining us. good to see you. [cheers and applause] now, jeremy, let's talk turkey for a second. how much of this is bluster? can you really flip texas? because there's a damn good chance before the next election they will -- >> this is definitely more than bluster. if you look at the state, if you look at the demographics it's the state that is changing. the country is changing. >> stephen: what do you mean changing? >> a more diverse state. it's becoming a lot more young people. we're going to go out and expand the electorate. get the new voters, register them, bring them into the process. the folks registered to vote and not turning out in texas we're going to build a grassroots campaign and turn it into a competitive battleground state. >> stephen: if you do that, that will upset the natural order of things. we know it's in the constitution that ohio and florida get to pick the next president. do you not believe in the constitution? >> in texas if you go there and talk to volunteers. i've seen the volunteers whether it's in el paso driving up towards new mexico or calling down they want to focus on texas. we're going to bring the fight to texas and make the a battleground state so that anybody that wants to be the commander in chief, they have to fight for texas. >> stephen: what do you mean the demographic shifts are happening? that's just liberal you've mixes for hispanics and black people d you've ms.ims deuphemisms for hispanics and black people. if you look. [laughter] >> if you look at the state it's not just about the demographics it's the turnout. only 54% of the latinos were registered to vote and only 35% turned out. with only 50% of a population turns out to vote you get a government in texas. it for half the people and by half the people. we plan to change that it's not the demographic shift in the future it's the folks there in the future. >> stephen: you are reaching tout african-americans and hispanics? >> of course, and young people, women, across the state. >> stephen: you are a racist. >> what i want to do in texas is make the people there part of democratic process. get everybody in the state to turn out and vote so that the government reflects the people of texas. >> stephen: is voter i.d. going to stop you. rick perry behind the voter i.d. law, isn't he? >> if you look at the state the way republicans have gerrymannedered it. >> stephen: it's an ugly word. it's extremely accurate but ugly word. >> the laws they put in place make it hard to vote. we're going to get people out to vote, fight tour their voting rights and turn them out in force. >> stephen: do you want to make a bet? $100? >> yes. >> stephen: i bet you $100 you cannot get barack obama reelected in 2016. jeremy bird, [cheers and applause] >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. thanks. [cheers and applause] folks, over the past few years, as i've been watching the story unfold in the news, america's fleet of drones has semi-autonomously piloted its way into my heart because it works. [laughter] last week, senator lindsey graham revealed that drones have now killed 4,700 people. [cheers and applause] all right. if fans here tonight. and most impressively, many of those 4,700 people were the ones we were trying to kill. [laughter] unfortunately, not everyone is as proud of president obama's drone program as i am. for instance, president obama. [laughter] just listen to former press secretary, robert gibbs. >> when i went through the process of becoming press secretary, one of the first things they told me was you're not even to acknowledge the drone program. you're not even to discuss that it exists. >> stephen: though, truth is, the secret got out a long time ago. i don't know how, but it was leaked to at least 4,700 people. [laughter] i just don't get why the administration is so ashamed of its extrajudicial robosassination spree. [laughter] after all, a whopping 83% of americans approve of it. even among liberal democrats 77% endorse the use of drones. and those remaining 23% of liberal holdouts are just the same spoilsports who eventually ruined the iraq war, the japanese internment camps, and the 1902 law permitting the irish to be catapulted into the sea. [ laughter ] why don't these liberal peace-humpers get how successful our drones have been? i mean, over in pakistan drone strikes have made travel to the tribal areas so perilous for western al qaeda recruits, that terrorists are actively dissuaded from making the trip. thus cancelling this year's mtv's "spring break: waziristan." [laughter] [cheers and applause] the party lasts all year because the girls are never in school! [laughter] folks, our heroic drones have so rattled al qaeda, its leaders are distributing a 22-point tipsheet on how to avoid them. like tip number twelve "maintain complete silence of all wireless contacts." here's a pro-tip: switch to at&t. no one will ever find you! [laughter] [cheers and applause] i love it and then there's tip number 18 encouraging militants to arrange fake gatherings using dolls and statues to mislead the enemy. a strategy previously seen only in the al qaeda training video "home al lone." [laughter] [cheers and applause] but that's not all. this tip sheet also has the key to bringing reluctant liberals on board with our drone program. number ten reads: "hide under thick trees because they are the best cover against the planes," advice that originated with bin laden himself, who wrote, "i want the brothers in the islamic maghreb to know that planting trees helps the mujahedeen and gives them cover. trees will give the mujahedeen the freedom to move around." you hear that, tree huggers? [laughter] [cheers and applause] our drone program is encouraging reforestation. [laughter] so unless you support our deathbots you're killing the planet. remember, think locally, bomb globally. [ laughter ] we'll be right back. [cheers and applause]éxéx] >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. my guest tonight is a theoretical physicist who's written a newsweek article entitled "asteroid apocolypse." shocking stuff-- there's still a "newsweek"! please welcome michio kaku! [cheers and applause] thank you for coming back. good to see you again. >> glad to be on it. >> stephen: everybody knows you are the author of the national best seller the physics of future. you are the professor of theoretical fizzists in new york. you awjerred the cover story on "the newsweek" let's call it magazine, will after the roves destroy the earth. okay. what are the theoretical physicists know about actual asteroids? >> well, we look at the evidence. in 1908 we had a city that fell on sigh beera, wiped out 830 square miles of siberian real estate. >> stephen: the tungasta event. >> that's right. it could have happened last week. it scimed the earth. we dodged a bullet and then another asteroid hit russia. and if that meteor was delayed by two or three seconds, it would have been a ground burst rather than an air burst and at 40,000 miles per hour do the math it's 20 hero sheema bombs. -- her -- hiroshima bombs. >> stephen: i'm happy do you the math. how often is this happen something in. >> we didn't have large metropolises hundreds of years ago, we had fishing vil yanlz they hit the earth before. we were oblivious, blissfully unaware that we had near misses and actual collisions with objects about the size of an apartment building. these are city buses. and then we have a nation buster which is going to come grazing past the earth and may even hit the earth. that's called the asteroid apofet. it's ten times bigger than the asteroid that scimed the earth last week. >> stephen: what do you mean may hit? what is the -- do the math. [ laughter ] what is the math on that one? >> well, first it's going to skim by the earth in 2029 and it's going to graze the atmosphere. that's the question mark. we don't know how much friction it's going to encounter. that cannot be factored relyibly. when it grazes the atmosphere on the second pass in 2036 there's a window of opportunity where the thing could actually hit the earth even though it's still very small. >> stephen: because of the friction it encounters on 2029. >> that's right in the second pass. >> stephen: can we lubricate the earth in some way so there's not so much friction? [cheers and applause] and just duz -- [cheers and applause] >> the russians have taken this seriously. >> stephen: of course, they would. they almost got tagged. >> they said we have to maintain serious propals. maybe in 2029 -- >> steve: where do you stand in space to do the nudging? >> first you have to land on it, put a rocket on it and the rocket will push it slightly out of the way so in the second pass it will miss the earth. >> stephen: i assume this is like bruce willis and a team of miners who get trained to be astronauts for some reason. >> president obama has stated that the next goal now that he canceled the moon and mars mission is to land on an asteroid, in which case if we land on one, it will be a dress rehearsal. blowing it up ala bruce willis there's baby asteroids coming at you. >> stephen: it turns a bullet shotgun pellets. >> yes, up want to keep it in tafnlgt we're going to be looking at it very carefully to see the structural integrity f. it's held together by graveity or a solid piece of rock that we could push with a hydro again bomb or a rocket. >> stephen: the comet is coming by? >> perhaps the end of this year the comet of the century will come by. they are rarer than meteors. shooting stars -- >> stephen: those are meteors. >> however atomic can linger in the night sky for weeks at a time scaring the panlts off everyone and that's why everyone thinks the kings is foretold by the coming of comet and the comet of century is. cog later this year in november. >> stephen: do you know what it's called? >> no, i have to look it up on the internet. >> stephen: we can look it up right here. thank you so much for joining me. dr. michio kasicscshysicscs
come. >> reporter: nearly 40 counties throughout texas now under an emergency declaration. a dam rupturing just east of austin unable to withhold a historic amount of rain. >> it's not over. the rain is still here. >> reporter: family members desperately wait on dry land. >> i kept calling him over and over like are you okay. >> reporter: as rescues continue by air and water. the national guard called to rescue 13 people including three children trapped in a rental cabin in southeast oklahoma. >> the water came up quicker than expected. road washed out and we couldn't pass by it. >> reporter: in wimberley, texas still missing. julie recalls the last phone call she received from her sister. >> call mom and dad. i love you. and pray. >> reporter: along with her husband and two children inside the vacation home was swept away by the flood waters. her husband, found 12 miles away says he tried desperately to save his family but the cabin split in two. >> she is with her babies and she will be with her babies always in heaven. we know that as a family. >> reporter: the death toll in both southern states continues to rise. >> she was at prom with her date. laughing dancing next to her. >> reporter: 18-year-old alyssa ramirez was on her way back from prom south of san antonio. her car stalling out in flood waters a couple miles from her home. >> they were unable to find her until this morning when crews were out there. she has her place in heaven and they'll meet her again soon. >> reporter: now, most of the rivers here in the hill country have crested. unfortunately all of this water is flowing downstream so we have seen major flooding in the houston area. they received about 8 to 9 inches of rain in just 24 hours. and of course if you add insult to injury when you have all of this water flowing downstream. so the rivers already at high capacity and then you add the rain on top of that. still raining across southeast texas. that rain into new orleans as well. so we are still going to see the potential for flooding across texas. the forecast does improve here in the hill country though. we are expected a mainly dry forecast today and tomorrow. only isolated activity. of course if we see some heavy downpours though in those isolated areas, we will see the risk of flash flooding once again, chris. when the sun comes up here we of course will have better pictures. the bridge we're trying to get original location the integrity of it is compromised with a lot of debris. we'll be trying to get across there in the next hour or two to see what's on the other side. >> all right, jennifer we know resources are stretched to the limit. we'll be back to you. we want to tell you about iraq. government forces are going on the attack called out by enemies and allies for not having the will to fight. they're now responding with one of the biggest operations to date. the mission reclaim anbar province from isis. forces already have the key city of ramadi surrounded from three directions. we have complete coverage starting with senior international correspondent nick paton walsh. he is live in baghdad. nick. >> reporter: chris, it is potentially messy start to this operation, but the announcements are made. we have to see if they translate to action on the ground. key to how sectarian and complex this could be. the first real announcement came from the shia-backed militia who said they were going after a supply route that isis liked to use between the northern city -- sorry the northern area and anbar where ramadi is located. we then heard from the defense ministry and prime minister's office through state tv saying yes, also the iraqi military are going to be involved as are the police along with the shia-backed militia groups. and there are suggestions too that perhaps citizens of northern province to anbar may also be involved in the fighting too. key to all of this is the name they've given the operation answering the call very redolent of shia culture. that will fuel allegations that this is the iranian backed militia leading the way and it comes as you said after a week of bickering, after saying iraq lacked the will to fight, prime minister said maybe he got the wrong information to make that statement then iran's -- saying it was the american with the lack of will to fight. moment of truth is here. they announced the operation to take back anbar. we have to see if that translates to success on the ground alisyn. >> nick, thanks for that update. let's talk more about that fallout from defense secretary ash carter questioning the iraqis will o fight. it's causing a war of words at the highest levels of u.s. and iraq officials. let's get to jim acosta. what is the white house saying about ash carter's white house? >> alisyn the white house is doing some fence mending after ash carter questioned their will to fight in the battle against office. saying he was flat wrong. vice president joe biden called the iraqi leader to praise the bravery of his country's forces. here's a comment from defense secretary carter that kicked off this controversy. >> what apparently happened was that the iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. they were not outnumbered. in fact they vastly outnumbered the opposing force. >> now, carter made that comment obviously after the iraqi military withdrew from ramadi turning over another key territory to isis. the obama administration now claims carter was only talking about that one battle and was not issuing a sweeping indictment of their will to fight. here's how one senior administration official put it. this official said the iraqis have suffered setbacks before and were able to retake territory from isil who they refer to as isis. the united states will continue to support these efforts and do all we can to help the brave iraqi forces including the tribes of anbar to secure the province from isil terrorists. these comments from the administration all but previewed the operation that nick paton walsh was just talking about that's getting underway to retake anbar province. the white house will of course be presed on carter's remarks later on today. but, chris, carter he may have been saying what a lot of people are saying and thinking here in washington but for right now both of these sides the u.s. and iraq need each other. >> i think you're right on it. sometimes in politics you're not supposed to say what everybody's thinking. appreciate it. let's bring in retired u.s. delta force and philip mudd. where there is a will there is a way. so let's start with the first part of that colonel. do you believe having just been on the ground over there that the iraqis have the will? >> chris, good morning. i do. i watched in tikrit. i've watched the forces heading out to anbar and speaking to the people i know throughout the chain of command in the iraqi army they do. our problem is sometimes is we like to look down through a straw. we look through a straw and then make sweeping generalizations about what we think. my frustration with the secretary of defense the word he used is apparently. department of defense doesn't use apparently they use facts. that's what they do. i believe they will do this and i do believe they will get ramadi back. >> set up this sound by iraq's deputy prime minister about ramadi falling. let's hear what he had to say about why it went down the way it did. >> it was election that sort of surprised all of us. withdraw against such a small enemy that attack them. and they left the people surrounded by isis. this is not the army that we are willing to see or we're expecting to see. >> so if it's not about what's in their hearts is this about what's in their heads and what the strategy is, philip what happened in ramadi and going forward? >> i think you're right. i think colonel reese is right as well. we talked about this is a battle for territory. it is a battle of wills. isis like a lot of groups motivated by religion will not go home again until they're defeated or they die. i think what will happen is government as you've seen today will move in. they'll move in with shia militias. i don't think isis will be able to maintain ground. it's easy for them to take ground. much harder for an insurgent group to hold it. here's a long-term problem based on what the deputy prime minister and others are saying. in that short-term gain to make that gain in ramadi the shia-led government will bring in shia militias. so over the course of the long-term regardless whether the government takes ramadi if you're a sunni villager make a choice. go with the group that beheads you or go with the government that brings in your rival shia militias to take over your territory. that is not a long-term recipe to keep iraq together. >> philip mudd is putting his finger on something that is probably closer to the truth than what we're hearing right now. colonel, you talked about this it's not whether they want to fight, it's what they're fighting for. we're not going to hear this out of the white house because it would be too big a commitment for them. but the reality on the groupd is they're worried about what comes next when they beat isis. >> yeah chris, i understand what phil is saying. but i've also watched. there's a common enemy in isis that the iraqi both sunni, shia christian, everyone is fighting for. and when you have 100,000 people that are refugees that are moving east towards baghdad right now what the iraqi government is trying to do is garner their combat power. wherever that combat power is coming to. what i'd like to know is is okay we're all focused on the tactical fight right here. where's the diplomatic support and assistance we're doing? where's the economic piece? we talk about sending 1,000 more missiles. okay. but where's the diplomatic? we're not talking about that. where's general allen and the team that's supposed to be the iraq czar? that's one of the pieces i'm missing and i don't see it. >> another piece is that obviously the colonel was dealing with there on the ground philip is who's helping them and how. you now have iran stepping up and saying hey, we're the only ones on the ground. we're the ones fighting this. it's the u.s. commitment that you people should be talking about. what's your take? >> look this is a great game under way. the great game is between iran which sees itself as a power thousands of years old, a power in the middle east. just a couple years ago they would have had a foothold in syria, foothold in lebanon. the opportunity they have with the shia-led government if you think of that as a crescent is now cement a foothold in iraq which is a majority shia country, we've seen them supporting houthis in yemen. iran is on a roll. and the iranian generals visiting baghdad is simple americans were here for ten years but they cut and run in afghanistan, they cut and run in iraq. if you want a long-term solution to your problem america is not your solution because they will abandon you just as secretary ash carter just did. if you want guys who won't abandon you, look across the border it's us. >> what do you do with that, colonel? especially when they can talk all you want. i'm referencing here the head of the iranian force that says obama hasn't done a thing to confront daesh. what do they have to show for their effort sns. >> success in tikrit along the tigris. come in advice and assist just like our special forces has done. i think what he's saying is hey, america, you put your toe, you dabble your toe here, dabble your toe here we're prepared to come in and jump in with both feet. my point is this i think we either jump in with both feet it doesn't have to be 100,000 soldiers, we have this advise and assist mission allow those forces to help lead coach and mentor those forces. if we're not going to do that do what he said let's pull up let's go home and see what happens. >> well the big challenge is going to be everybody keeps saying what happens next what happens next. winning on the ground as ugly and bloody as it is seems to be the easy part philip. how do you bring stability to a government that didn't happen the last time and wound up spawning what we're dealing with right now? they're all just offshoots of the old party. that's why isis has any intelligence to it at all at the command structure is because they're saddam hussein's old guys. what do you do to make it better going forward? >> you don't. i agree with colonel reese. daeshe is not going to win. isis is not going to win. over the long-term i suspect what you will see with the sunnis is what you've seen with the kurds in the north. that is they will start to see increasingly the government as distrustful, as a government they can't deal with because it's a shia government. it's not an iraqi government. they're either going to develop a new group after isis that will cement some sort of autonomy or independence for anbar province for sunni areas. i don't think you can put iraq back together. and people who suggest that there's a solution in persuading the iraqi government to be more inclusive were 0 for 2 for iraqi leadership including the predecessor al maliki to bring in sunnis ain't going to happen. i think iraq will never return to a unified state. >> all this reflects the truism that is difficult to control what you do not occupy. thank you very much. appreciate it as always. to a story we've been following for some time in iran the first session is over in the espionage trial in the american journalist. he's accused of spying for the u.s. cnn's becky anderson is live in abu dhabi with the very latest for us. becky. >> reporter: michaela the shameful acts of injustice continue without end, those the words of "the washington post" executive editor in a statement released. the head of what is this first session of jason's trial on charges of espionage. it was a relatively short session. no date has been released for the continuation. so the facts in this case very murky. the 39-year-old was arrested in july last year along with his wife and others. they were later released on bail but jason has been in prison at times in solitary confinement since july. why? well for months it wasn't clear, but by april this year he was formally accused of spying and illegally gathering classified information about iran and passing it onto washington. now, let me tell you the judge assigned to this case is known to be very close to the intelligence operators and has been accused in the past of passing down politically motivated sentences. which begs this question is jason a pawn in a wider power struggle going on inside tehran with the government of president rowhani pitted against hardline elements who wish to embarrass him as he tries to strike a nuclear deal with the west by the end of this month. i think the answer will become clearer in the weeks ahead. alisyn. >> okay becky, we will be talking to jason's brother coming up in the program. thanks so much for that. well memorial day was a frightening one in the sky. ten separate threats made against airline flights, two u.s. f-15 fighter jets forced to escort an airfrance passenger jet into jfk airport in new york. and that's where we find cnn's jean casarez this morning. jean, what have investigators learned? >> reporter: alisyn it was multiple flights multiple destinations multiple airlines. it's believed one person may have called in four of those threats. but the common denominator is this all of the threats are called in on memorial day, a very busy travel day. the flights were international flights in the air bound for the united states and none of those threats were determined to be credible at all. now, it started about 24 hours ago. maryland state police got an anonymous phone call launching a threat against airfrance flight %-p22 in theair bound for right here jfk. listen soto some audio between the police and that pilot of airfrance flight 22. >> do you have anyone sick or ill on the aircraft? >> no. >> and you haven't had anybody ill or sick during the flight? >> correct. >> reporter: and at that point it's when the fighter jets escorted airfrance into jfk and the threats continued from there. another one here at jfk. another one at newark. united airlines coming in from madrid. atlanta had a threat. a strange one, buffalo, new york it was southwest airlines. and the pilot actually asked for a canine unit to come onboard the plane. now the question is who are did this and why did this. and, chris, we're talking about criminal acts. back to you. >> absolutely. and the concern are the connections that may be among any of the threats. i know you'll stay on it jean. we have breaking news overnight in new mexico. a manhunt is underway for a suspect who shot and killed a police officer in a town of rio rancho. the officer who died has not been identified but the department says he was an air force veteran. an interesting revelation from pope francis. he says he has not watched any television in 25 years. the pontiff tells an argetin newspaper says he hasn't watched tv since 1990. instead he gets results every week from his security detail. pope francis says of television "it was not for me." >> i wonder what show in 1990 -- >> it was agame apparently. >> so repulsive he never watched it. >> he has been heard to say he does appreciate this program called novo journal. "new day" in italian. >> christopher cuomo. >> shaking his head. >> we're going to turn him around. meanwhile, back to the breaking news this morning and the memorial day threats against commercial flights. is one suspect behind all of these threats? and how will authorities find the culprit? when cigarette cravings hit, all i can think about is getting relief. only nicorette mini has a patented fast-dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. i never know when i'll need relief. that's why i only choose nicorette mini. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? (music) i'm supposed to tell you how it feels when you book the perfect family vacation on hotels.com. but i think he's kinda nailing it. (music) hotels.com. they don't need me right now. the fbi looking into a series of memorial day threats against commercial flights. ten threats called into at least four separate agencies. here to examine it former inspector general of the u.s. department of transportation and cnn transportation analyst mary schiavo. and cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. good morning guys. >> good morning. >> ten threats made to four separate agencies including the fbi, the maryland police department these were all regarding international flights into the u.s. mary, before we get into these specific threats and who might be behind it how common are threats into airlines? >> unfortunately they're very common but they tend to fall into three categories. attacks on airlines by terrorists and other criminal elements usually don't get a warning. but beyond that it's usually someone who has a vendetta against a particular airline, former disgruntled employee or someone who sought employment or they're in the category of aimed at somebody on the plane or somebody supposed to be on a flight person-specific. they're unfortunately too common. >> so they're very common tom, how do airlines and law enforcement begin to figure out which ones are legit and which ones are just pranks? >> well i think if i could add one more category to that is just the prankster that you have one or more pranksters like pulling a fire alarm in a high school and watching everybody scramble and watch the fire trucks show up. and i think that's part of the problem here is if you make a series of these phone calls and do it in a way that aren't immediately traceable, from pay phones or other voice over internet with enkripgs other means, you watch the media, airlines watch them unload the planes watch the fbi have to search all the planes and luggage and watch the spectacle of it all that you personally caused to happen. what the fbi will be doing is also trying to see and hope for social media, somebody will take credit for this. not necessarily a terrorist group, i agree with mary they don't take credit and just attack and worry about it later. but is somebody bragging about this? is some kid somewhere saying look what we did? look at the phone calls we made that caused this scramble of people on memorial day during a busy day of travel. >> mary given that it's so common what do airlines do when a threat comes in? >> unfortunately they have to react as if every threat is just as serious and potential loss of the aircraft or life or terrorist threat. and they have to do what happened yesterday. they have to take them seriously. particularly since they said some very frightening words and that apparently is in one of the calls they mentioned a chemical weapon. which is very difficult, that's why we had the liquids rule they're hard to detect. and that was a huge red flag and very terrifying frankly. >> tom, who do you think is behind this? i don't mean specifically but what category of person is behind this one? >> i think because it's the fact it's so many different airlines i don't think it's a disgruntled employee of one particular airline or one particular country. i think that you know my personal opinion is i would lean toward the prankster trying to just watch this happen and get their indirect 15 minutes. >> mary these were again, ten flights all international flights interestingly inbound to the u.s. who do you think -- >> i think tom's right. i think, you know it almost seems like someone was watching a flight aware and it picked out ten flights inbound. unfortunately because international flights are wide body and have a lot of passengers, if you picked a domestic flight you might get a 50-seater plane and 50% of u.s. flights are small flights. so it almost looked like someone was watching flight aware and called in ten flights headed inbound international and that's a lot of chaos. >> tom, the u.s. air force scrambled fighter jets to accompany one of the flights, an airfrance flight bound for jfk here in new york. what can fighter jets do exactly? >> well that's a good question alisyn. i think that the idea behind that is that if that plane deviates off course and for whatever reason it's been hijacked or a pilot has taken over the plane that has problems and they start to fly that toward manhattan, you know it's basically 9/11 all over again. the idea would be the fighter jets theoretically could shoot that plane down yes, kill 350 people on the plane but maybe save 3,000 people on the ground. whether that would happen and whether they could do it in time is a good question. because the inbound approach to go into jfk airport it's only a slight matter of seconds deviation to drift off that course and go into manhattan. you know same issue here in washington. you have flights inbound into reagan airport, you know it's a matter of a few seconds to go off course and fly into one of the buildings in the capital. so i think it's a dangerous situation. you know whether they would actually shoot down an airliner and if they tried to would it be in time is a good question. >> mary, if i'm a passenger on a commercial flight i never want to see a fighter jet out the window. >> well exactly. you never want to see a fighter jet out the window but in this day and age you are likely to see it on the screen on your seat back first. and what surprised me is many of these passengers on these planes weren't told anything onboard. and i think that's pretty risky because you're likely to have it on your screen. of course the captain could have cut the communications could have stopped the entertainment, turned off the screens in the seats. but not telling passengers in this day and age with the age of communications and wi-fi et cetera is pretty risky. any time you look out the window and see those fighter jets scramble it's a bad thing. >> tom, very quickly, how hard will it be for law enforcement to figure out who exactly did this? >> i think it will be hard. i think there's so many different ways to initiate phone calls and to as you mentioned so many different areas. and if you do it from pay phones if you do it on encrypted voice over internet type phone calls it's going to be very very difficult. what you're going to hope for is after the fact somebody wants to tell everybody how cool they are that they've pulled this off and start bragging about it. and then give the authorities a head start on who to zero in on. >> that really does happen a lot actually. so let's hope that scenario does play itself out. mary schiavo, tom fuentes, thank you for explaining this. over to michaela. alisyn quite frightening scene in florida, a waterspout tosses an inflatable bounce house into the air with three children still inside. details ahead. listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. and now with... ...twice as much vitamin d ...which up to 90% of people don't get enough of. ohhhhhhh. the sunshine vitamin! ensure now has 2x more vitamin d to support strong bones. ensure. take life in. when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. we monitor network traffic worldwide, so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. you wouldn't do half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently. brushing alone does less than half the job leaving behind millions of germs. complete the job with listerine®. kill up to 99 percent of germs. and prevent plaque early gum disease and bad breath. complete the job with listerine®. power to your mouth™! also try listerine® pocket packs to kill bad breath germs on the go. we are following breaking news. at least six people dead and 12 missing in texas and oklahoma. the result of record setting rains and flash flooding. the governor declaring a state of emergency in 37 counties. houston closing all schools this morning. near austin as many as 400 homes have washed away. that same severe storm system spawning a tornado across the border in mexico killing 13 people there. we also have breaking news this morning in iraq. government forces are going all-in to take back anbar province. and their pride after a number of recent setbacks including the loss of ramadi and the strategic oil refinery. word of the operation comes as the u.s. and iraq engage in a war of words after defense secretary ash carter questioned the iraqis will to fight in an exclusive cnn interveet. memorial day fun turns terrifying in florida. waterspout comes ashore creating havoc on a busy beach. that entire ordeal caught on camera. >> oh bounce house! >> oh there's kids on it! >> parents on ft. lauderdale beach watching in horror. moments before a waterspout forming just offshore makes its way onto land. watch as it cuts across the beach sending this children's bounce house soaring an estimated 20 feet into the air with children inside. >> it gets high up by the palm trees. next thing you know you see kids flying out of the bounce house. girl hits the floor, boy hits the floor. and the bounce house takes off. >> reporter: one little girl who suffered a fractured arm describes her ordeal. >> i was in the bounce house and then the bounce house flew while i was in there. then i fell in the dirt. i was thinking i was about to die. >> reporter: in total three children were injured. this mother watched helplessly as her daughter lifted off the ground. >> i was like oh my god, i can't believe this. >> reporter: waterspouts are similar to tornadoes but are usually less intense, however they can be just as dangerous. the waterspout on ft. lauderdale beach packed enough force to snap this concrete basketball post in two. >> this is an act of mother nature. something that could not be prevented. >> reporter: inflatable bounce house injuries are becoming more common according to one study. rising 1,500% from 1995 to 2010. around the same time last year two young boys were seriously injured when a gust of wind sent their inflatable house airborne. both children fell two stories. so you saw that little one with the broken arm. another little child was sent home with some injuries. but one child was kept in the hospital overnight stable but observing to make sure they're okay. imagine you're a parent watching that happen. there's nothing you can do. >> i don't know that that's true that the parents can't do anything. but why do the castles keep flying away? >> it just happens all the time. we've seen this all the time. and they're really fun. i mean bounce houses are great at a party. >> i'm not used to seeing them at a beach. >> but they fly away too much. that's a design flaw. >> or it's about who is in charge of the bounce castles and what the rules are and the rules are not. i mean, 1500% up from 95 to that period they've measured. >> how many times have we reported this story on "new day"? >> too many. >> yeah far too many. another story we've reported on many times but still the need is great is baltimore. we're not there so things must be better at least, right? wrong. the fact is there are more killings in baltimore than ever. there are over two dozen shootings just this weekend. and arrests however are down. that's a very troubling combination. we will tell you what's going on there. and you're going to want to know. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. no sudden movements. google search: bodega beach house. ♪ want to survive a crazy busy day? start with a positive attitude... and positively radiant skin. aveeno® positively radiant moisturizer... with active naturals® soy. one of nature's most effective skin tone correctors. to help reduce the look of brown spots in just four weeks. it's positively brilliant. aveeno®. naturally beautiful results®. don't just visit new york. visit tripadvisor new york. tripadvisor not only has millions of real traveler's reviews and opinions, but checks hundreds of websites, so people can get the best hotel prices. to plan, compare & book the perfect trip, visit tripadvisor.com today. may is now the deadliest month in baltimore in 15 years. there have been 35 homicides. the question is what is behind this deadly increase. let's bring in reverend jamal bryant. president of the empowerment movement. he's going to hold a demonstration today to bring attention to what he believes is contributing to the problem. rev, it's good to see you. i'm sorry it's under these circumstances. 35 maybe even more homicides. but fewer arrests. you say both statistics are important, why? >> it is so critical chris, when you will consider nine fatalities just this weekend. last year 2014 we didn't hit 100 homicides until july. we're now past that number still in the end of may. it's critical and alarming when you will consider that school isn't even out and a lot of young people are still in classrooms. what happens in three weeks when these young people go out and they have no employment opportunities, no recreation centers and nothing to occupy their time? and so we're in dire crisis and our whole city is gasping its breath hoping there's some sigh of relief. >> you say the fact arrests are down is also relevant because? >> it is so critical when you will consider arrests are down by 50% of what it ordinarily is. commissioner batts is going to have to be answerable because it looks as if the police have taken on the posture of substitute teachers who go into a classroom, turn a blinded eye but really don't infiltrate any discipline or give any expectation. and so it's really become the wild wild west. so we're looking for law and order to happen both on the end of the police and accountability from our citizens. >> now, what to you say to the argument of backlash? you know you go after the police you say everything they do is bad, every altercation is excessive force, that this is what happens. the police wind protecting our community. this is a false analogy and a bad premise. >> you're also calling out government's choices of where to put its money. you say it's not putting money into teachers and schools but it's building a new juvenile detention center for tens of millions of dollars. and you see that as what? >> the philosophers scholars all agree there's a direct connection between poverty and criminality for our governor to make the willful bad mistake to not giving $11 million to surge baltimore public schools but on the same day elect to erect a $30 million juvenile detention center shows misplaced priority. and 21 employees of the baltimore public school system got notices that their services are no longer necessary for next school year. i don't know how you do that with good conscience and you hire then people to break ground on a brand new juvenile detention center. today we're demonstrating to help the governor know that this is bad politics. and you've got priorities out of place. >> you talk about government responsibility, police responsibility and what about personal responsibility reverend? what is your message to people about raising their kids and about what the element is in these communities that winds up breeding crime? >> well here in baltimore we don't call it a riot chris. we call it an uprising when you consider after dr. king was killed it took in baltimore $113 million to restore the city. our own mayor and comptroller agreed to restore the city after the uprising on april 23rd and 26 it just $23 million. dr. king says riots are in fact the language of the unheard. and so i think that there were just a few who went in measures we don't ascribe to but speaks that young people in this city want opportunities to develop jobs they want to have opportunities for education. and they feel frustrated that the governor would in fact give them an opportunity to spend the night in a new jail but not spend the night on a college campus. >> reverend bryant thank you very much. this is an urgent situation. we pledge to keep attention on it. and we will do that. please let us know how it goes going forward. >> absolutely. thank you. we're also watching this story. the suspect in the washington, d.c. mansion murders act alone? 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(mom) when our little girl was born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. good to have you back. police are now looking for accomplices in the d.c. murder. daron wint is accused of killing the family and their housekeeper. want to turn to robin flicker, good to have you. i'm curious what the family thinks of the charges against their sibling and mother? >> i spoke with the family on the phone, there are nine children in this family. they impress me just as daron did as nice island people. they're horrified by these charges and don't believe that daron had anything to do with it if you note in the records filed by the u.s. attorney it says that a black man with short well-groomed hair was driving the stolen blue porsche that ended up being burned two miles from daron's father's house. however, all the pictures of him show that he has long dreadlocks and indeed he still has long dreadlocks. so someone else was driving that car, someone else burned the car. >> so mr. flicker, you're talking as though you also believe he may have had accomplices in this as prosecutors are alleging? >> i think that prosecutors should start looking at current or people who work for the deceased very recently. daron was a part-time laborer for him ten years ago. you don't harbor a grudge for that long only to see it spring forth ten years later. >> again, we don't know if this was a grudge or if it was something to do with the money that was found and taken from the area. look, we also know that dna was found on a pizza crust there, dna that belonged to daron wint. >> well his brother and sister both told me without being asked that daron doesn't like pizza and never eats it. there were three messages coming out of this house while people were supposedly being held hostage. one by the mother who ordered pizza and gave her credit card number one by the deceased gentleman who called for the money and then another message that went out to a housekeeper telling her not to come. couldn't someone have said call the police we're being held hostage during this time? >> they were likely under duress do you not assume? >> they may have been under duress but there are three contacts and it's very suspicious to me that no word no cry for help went out at all. >> well you're making the assumption that the people being held that were actually sending out those messages they could have been the people that were holding them. i want to ask you about his description. you described him on our air last week when you were speaking with my colleague you described wint as kind and gentle. well i want to point you to a 2010 case the charged document read that wint threatened to kill a woman and her 2-year-old daughter broke the windshield of her car and stole their television. kind and gentle? >> there was no injury in that case. >> threatening to kill a 2-year-old? >> the 2-year-old wasn't injured at all. these are idle threats often resulting from a custody battle. >> all right. well kind and gentle isn't a description i've heard when someone threatens a 2-year-old child. i want to ask you also about the fact that you maintain that he has been wrongfully accused. and i believe that's what the family is also saying correct? >> there's no question about it. if you look at the photograph of the man running away it doesn't look at all like daron wint. and even though there's some implication by police that it is there are no facial features that can be observed. >> could have been one of the alleged accomplices. again, my point is there are many questions we still don't know the answer to. one of the questions i have for you is if he is wrongfully accused and if he is innocent why would his girlfriend in brooklyn say that he was planning on turning himself in once he realized that the police were after him? and then why would he run to d.c. instead reportedly some local media reports are saying that he took $1,000 cab ride to d.c. if he just wanted to go for the memorial day weekend to d.c. probably just hop on the megabus or something. >> he was probably coming back to family. i've met with members of the family. they're all very nice island people. he was coming back home to talk to his family as to what to do. >> why was he afraid? >> he was afraid because of the media attention and the allegations made by police. the police were referring to him as a murderer on national tv. >> so why not walk into the precinct and say here i am, what questions do you have, here's my representation? >> well he should have gone and talked to a lawyer right away. that's for sure. i represented him in six cases, he was found not guilty in all six cases. but when you have a national dragnet out you become afraid. and when you're being called a murderer on national tv of course you're going to be a bit defensive. wouldn't you? he's presumed innocent. the police should have said that from the very beginning. >> have you had any more contact with the family about whether you're going to represent daron wint? >> they're going to be talking about that this week. there are nine children as i said it's a large family. and they don't want the public defender to represent him. they're going to be getting back to me at the end of the week. i hope that i can represent him because i think we'll win and he'll be found not guilty. >> robin ficker there's still a whole lot of questions that need to be answered at this point. what we do know four people are dead. thank you so much for joining us today. >> my pleasure. we're following a whole lot of news this morning. let's get right to it. >> 200 to 300 homes completely destroyed still looking for 12 missing. >> our wildest imagination think of the wall of water that would come down. >> the road was washed away. >> the challenges are not over yet. >> a massive attack on isis. >> the ministry operations will be northeast of fallujah and around ramadi. >> we've talked about this as a battle for territory. it is a battle of will. >> i love it and i hate it but it's home. >> an iranian-american journalist for "the washington post" is on trial for espionage in tehran. >> may is now the deadliest month in baltimore in 15 years. >> we've come too far to have this type of setback. >> why do you think that there is a great increase in the murder rate? good morning everyone. welcome back to your "new day." we have big stories breaking at home and in iraq where a major military operation is underway against isis. but first parts of texas and oklahoma reeling from severe storms and flooding. the relentless rain and violent weather blamed for at least six deaths and a dozen people still missing at this hour. >> texas' governor saying people in his state have never seen anything like this. in houston the flooding is so bad schools are closed today. let's get to cnn's jennifer gray. she's in wimberley, one of the towns hard hit. what does it look like now? >> reporter: chris, it looks more like tornado damage than flood damage. you have 200 to 300 homes completely destroyed, a lot of homes wiped clear off their foundation. as we mentioned a dozen people still missing. in fact the blanco river rose three times flood stage on sunday with the flow 2.5 times that of niagra falls. this morning record breaking and deadly flood waters continue to wreak havoc across central texas and oklahoma. >> the challenges are not over yet. there's going to be more rain to come. >> reporter: nearly 40 counties throughout texas now under an emergency disaster declaration. a dam rupturing just east of austin unable to withhold the historic amount of rain flooding a highway. >> it's not over. the rain is still here. >> reporter: family members desperately wait on dry land. >> i kept calling him over and over and i was like are you okay are you okay. >> reporter: as rescues continue by air and water. the national guard called to rescue 13 people including three children trapped in a rental cabin in southeast oklahoma. >> the water came up quicker than expected. road washed out and we couldn't pass by it. >> reporter: in wimberley, texas around a dozen people are still missing. >> when she wasn't there i knew something was very very wrong. >> reporter: julie recalls the last phone call she received from her sister laura. >> call mom and dad. i love you. and pray. >> reporter: along with her husband and two children inside mccombs vacation home was swept away by the flood waters. her husband, found 12 miles away says he tried desperately to save his family but the cabin split in two. >> she is with her baby. and she will be with her babies always in heaven. we know that as a family. >> reporter: the death toll in both southern states continues to rise. >> she was at prom with her date and, you know laughing and dancing next to her. >> reporter: 18-year-old alyssa ramirez was on her way back from prom just south of san antonio. her car stalling out in high waters just a couple miles away from her home. she called 911 and her father but it was too late. >> they were unable to find her until this morning when crews were out there. she has her place in heaven and they'll meet her again soon. >> reporter: the stories coming out of this area are unimaginable. the river has crested, it did on sunday. so we should be improving. no rain in the forecast today and tomorrow. we could see a few isolated showers, but nothing the widespread rain like we saw. all of this though flowing downstream. bad news for houston. the water filling up the rivers there. in addition an 8 to 9 inches of rain the past 24 hours we're seeing major flooding in the houston area. the rain continuing there. it's also pushing into south louisiana. so flood watches and warnings still in effect. those rivers still running high across a lot of southeast texas, but, chris, the cleanup here will continue for days, weeks. the search still continues for those 12 missing as families try to figure out what to do next. >> all right, jennifer we do understand that reports for help requests for help are on the way up as you're heading down into these major metropolis areas. let's bring on rick flanagan the emergency management coordinator for houston, texas. we were just hearing, sir, that the need is great and it's heading your way. what is the latest? >> well right now i can honestly tell you overnight we got hammered. it was a tremendous amount of rainfall. we had high waters that were inundated in our streets. cars were stranded mobility was stopped, power went out, signal lights didn't work. it was just a mess. >> there is no way to prepare for this obviously. do you have the resources that you need? what is the biggest urgency right now you're dealing with? >> the biggest urgency right now is to get back to our new normal. we can't supply the normal level of service. we do have the resources, but right now the call volume and requests are so high law enforcement and police they have calls that are backed up. so we're trying to make sure we can get units responding. we've reorganized the response profile so we're not sending the same amount of emergency units on some events because there are so many we have to respond to. but we want to make sure and reassure the public hey, we're going to get out here and make sure we can assist and help you out. one thing we want to say to everyone if you don't have to be outside, please please stay at home. >> and what are you finding in terms of the ease of rescue in these situations? obviously you can't move around very well. you can't send out the same number of reinforcements that you usually would. are people able to be extracted from these situations? what's your success rate? >> there's a management process to it. it slows things down quite a bit. we want to safely get them out, get them assessed some have to be treated at the hospital. in some of the residences we're rescuing we have to move them to shelters. make sure they can provide -- so it's just an ongoing cycle. the bad part of course right now is we're getting into the morning traffic. so that's why we want to have forecast out if you don't have to be out please don't. we're all working with isd, so they've closed for today. that helps to keep some of the traffic flow out of the way. a lot of cars there have been submerged. we have to get those off the roadways get the roadways opened back up. signal lights are not working. we've lost power. it's a major task. >> you know looking at the pictures there just seems to be so many frozen moments where people were obviously caught unaware of what they were getting into and that's why you're cautioning people to stay home. you're going to do the best that you can to get there. we know the governor has declared a state of emergency. we'll stay in touch with you so you can let us know what the needs are for people as they're being rescued and we'll spread the word. thank you very much for joining us. we'll let you get back to the very important tasks ahead. >> god bless. >> alisyn. okay. more breaking news this morning. a major operation now under way in iraq as forces look to take back territory under the control of isis. iraqi forces surrounding key areas in anbar province including ramadi. cnn has complete coverage starting with senior international correspondent nick paton walsh. he's live for us in baghdad. what's happening there, nick? >> reporter: alisyn we're at the station trying to see these announcements by a number of iraqi officials translates into hard action on the ground. first of all we heard the major announcement from the shia militia backed by iran who gave a press conference saying they will be moving into anbar to push isis out but also going through a supply route north of anbar which isis use there as well. that was subsequently backed up by statements on state television read out by the prime minister and defense ministry saying the iraqi military and police and potentially also we're hearing now as well maybe hundreds of sunni tribesmen could also be involved in this fighting too. now, the exact makeup of these forces is so key because of the sectarian divide in iraq the sunni-shia tensions that have always been here. fortunately now i think many observers are seeing the name of the this operation that the shia militia announced is called answering the call of hussein. that's very -- many are wondering perhaps the initial signals of this aren't particularly about embracing iraqi nationalism. but we have to see if this violence actually translates -- announcement translates into progress on the ground. we are hearing from those shia militia at this stage they don't think they need coalition assistance. they might be able to do it on their own. a tough fight ahead though michaela. >> certainly there will be. all right, nick thank you. this operation launching just as the u.s. and iraq get into a war of words over isis following harsh comments about the iraqis from the defense secretary made exclusively to cnn. let's turn to jim acosta. is this new operation iraq response to carter's comments do you think? >> reporter: well i don't know about that michaela but the white house is certainly doing some fence mending with the iraqis after defense secretary ash carter questioned their will to fight in the battle against isis within hours after iraqi prime minister al badi responded basically saying flat wrong about their will to fight. vice president joe biden called the iraqi leader to praise the bravery of his country's forces. here's that comment from carter to my cnn colleague barbara starr that kicked off this controversy. >> what apparently happened was that the iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. they were not outnumbered. in fact they vastly outnumbered the opposing force. >> reporter: and of course carter made that comment after the iraqi military withdrew from ramadi turning over another key territory to isis. the obama administration now claims carter was only talking about that one battle and was not issuing a sweeping indictment of their will to fight. here's how one senior administration official is putting it and put it up on screen for you. it says iraqis have suffered setbacks before and were able to retake territory from isil. the united states will continue to support these efforts and do all we can to help the brave iraqi forces including the tribes of anbar to secure this province from isil terrorists. but these comments from the administration all but previewed this operation that is getting under way. but, alisyn certainly it seems defense secretary carter he was saying what people were thinking here in washington but it is very apparent now that these sides need each other. they're going to have to put this war of words aside for the moment. >> right. in washington sometimes people don't always say publicly what they're thinking. meanwhile, more breaking news to tell you about. cnn learning a person of interest is now in custody in connection with the murder of a new mexico police officer. officials in the town of rio rancho say the officer, a four-year veteran, was gunned down while on duty last night. the officer has not yet been publicly identified but the department says he was an air force veteran. a bloody memorial day weekend in baltimore. police report 30 people shot seven fatalities. the murder rate this month is at its highest level in 15 years. let's bring in cnn's suzanne malveaux. she's live from baltimore. we're seeing not just an uptick in crime, but you're seeing arrests down. now, that's a very troubling combination. >> reporter: it really is chris. when you think about this baltimore police tell us just overnight there were two more shootings, a guy who his head grazed by a bullet a 9-year-old boy shot in the leg. this is just devastating for the baltimore community. and you mentioned those statistics of 30 people who were shot over three-day period the holiday weekend. of those seven who died another very alarming statistic and that is just if you look at the month of may 35 homicides in the month of may. that brings to total 108 people who have died who have been killed in the city of baltimore this year throughout the whole city. and you bring up this point which is the number of arrests that are going down while these shootings are going up. a lot of people openly asking chris, in this community what is going on. is it related to the death of freddie gray who died after he was taken into police custody and the indictment of those six officers? some people are quietly within the police department saying this is about soft policing, this is about passive policing because there's a very difficult situation with the community. and they feel like they are gun shy and do not have the back of the leadership. michaela. >> all right. we're going to talk about this more coming up in our show. suzanne, thank you so much for that. the daughters of blues legend b.b. king claim he was poisoned to death by close aides. in separate affidavits the daughters say they were prevented from visiting their father in his final days. they were prevented by the entertainer's manager and personal assistant. well police say there's no evidence to support their accusations, but they are taking their claim seriously. a lawyer for king's estate though calls the accusations ridiculous. apparently the preliminary autopsy results don't support those claims. there is no active homicide investigation going on. but they're going to wait until the final autopsy which we know takes time could take up to eight weeks. >> the last days of people's lives are so painful especially when there's reaction. >> this is a big estate a lot of money at play. >> family's desperate for answers. >> yeah. >> we'll have to see what happens with this one. well up next more on that iraqi military operation that's aimed at driving isis out of anbar province. what role will the u.s. play? 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>> they had already planned an operation in ramadi alisyn. i think this is just a quickening of the tempo associated with that operation. but you're going to see a combined force of both iraqi security forces both army and police. you're going to see several elements of different shia militias going out to anbar province. and you're going to see some effects of sunni tribesmen. it's going to be somewhat of an uncoordinated action which we've seen them have difficulty with in the past but they're going to have a whole lot of mass. they will defeat isis. i will predict that today. given good odds for the iraqis to win back the city. >> general, you think they will get ramadi back? you take this seriously enough what's happening on the ground there that you believe that they will in short order get ramadi? >> i said that last week alisyn. they can't let ramadi say in the hands of isis. they have to get it back. but it's not going to be pretty. this is going to be an ugly fight. >> michael, do you see it this way? >> yeah i think they'll eventually get it back. but there's a lot of propaganda and public relations going into this campaign. much of it is i think is self-defeating. the operation called at your service hussein, which is a shia war cry or rallying cry. this would be like going into ramallah shouting next year in jerusalem and hope the majority supports you. they're going into the capital of the sunni heartland of iraq. many of the sunnis living in ramadi don't necessarily agree with the isis ideology but they've allowed isis to come in because of their political grievances and sense of disenfranchisement. i think this will be more like tikrit really spearheaded by the revolutionary guard forces who has effectively been the ground commander of this campaign. the man recently yesterday i believe had very strong words for the u.s. government said essentially we suck we haven't done anything to fight isis. and more than that we're an accomplice we have created isis this is our devil we've sort of brought into existence. i take a very very dim view of how this is going to go. i think there's going to be a lot of bloodshed and a lot of atrocities much will be hushed up. the iraqi government will deny anything like that has taken place. we've seen it before in other parts of iraq where they've come in and liberated these towns and cities. >> general, what do you think of that take? >> i don't take as dire view as michael does. i think some of that could happen. i don't put the divide as strongly as many of the west. some of the sunni tribesmen and some of the sunni provincial ask for the shia to come in because they know it was their saving grace in this case. i just see that there's a potential for actually a combined effort here. but again, i do agree with michael completely this could be ugly. what might be interesting to watch is what happens after the fight. are there atrocityies committed? there were in some fights. tikrit was not as bad, there were some reports of some extrajudicial killings and some shia atrocities but not much. so i think you're seeing maybe an understanding by the iraqi government that you can combine these forces. remember these forces fight and we don't often get this right in the west. they fight in priority for god, for tribes and then for country. if you can combine some of those things and that's what i think mr. al abadi's attempting to do. >> read to you the popular mobilization unit which is a shia militia. >> a consortium of all militias. >> he's saying this is a continuation of the tikrit operation. it is to cut the supply route from baiji oil refinery in the north tora ma di. after the call of the minister we answered the call. our forces are prepared and are surrounding ramadi in three directions. >> there's a civil war taking place within -- kind of a soft civil war taking place within the iraqi government. you have the sovereign actors the isf, the iraqi security forces. prime minister al abadi is considered to be more of a nationalist than sectarian. the difficulty is the pms do not see eye-to-eye with him. they accused him of letting fall because he didn't let them go in sooner. the u.s. government has made it priority to enforce command and control. there's a lot of skepticism in the pentagon and in the white house that that is actually taking place. they fear that iran is really behind the pmus. >> general, what i'm trying to figure out is this a reaction to all of the washington talk and what secretary carter said? is this a p.r. move? or is this truly an impressive military move we should be watching today? >> well it's neither, alisyn. it's not an impressive military move for sure because, again, i revert back to my earlier statement. this is going to be an ugly fight. it's just mass. it's just pouring a lot of people into anbar province. i don't think it's a reaction to the words of secretary carter. they were planning to do this before. they just didn't have the momentum going. but now they've seen a disaster in ramadi. so they needed to move. and ramadi has been -- the government in anbar province has been screaming for help over the last month and more saying they are about to fall. so i think it's a combination of all those things. again, it's also the prime minister trying to keep his country together and trying to as many politicians do console different parties and different actors to try and bring consensus. it's a tough road to hoe in iraq. >> general, michael weiss, thanks so much for helping us try to figure it out this morning. over to michaela. to politics now. they may be polling at 1% but some republican presidential hopefuls are making quite a huge impression in the early voting states. should some of the top tier candidates be concerned? 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new neutrogena cooldry sport. micromesh technology lets sweat pass through and evaporate so skin stays comfortable, while clinically proven protection stays on. new cooldry sport. neutrogena. don't just visit orlando visit tripadvisor orlando tripadvisor not only has millions of real travelers reviews and opinions but checks hundreds of websites so people can get the best hotel prices to plan, compare and book the perfect trip visit tripadvisor.com today with xfinity from comcast you can manage your account anytime, anywhere on any device. just sign into my account to pay bills manage service appointments and find answers to your questions. you can even check your connection status on your phone. now it's easier than ever to manage your account. get started at xfinity.com/myaccount violent storms and flooding in texas and oklahoma blamed for at least six deaths. 12 people remain missing. the governor of texas says the damage is absolutely devastating. he has declared a state of emergency in 37 counties. schools in houston closed this morning. meanwhile, across the border in mexico the same severe storm system spawning a tornado that killed 13 people destroying some 100 homes. also breaking this morning forces in iraq making a major move to reclaim anbar province and their pride. the iraqis have a key city of ramadi which they recently lost to isis surrounded on three sides, we are told. they're also trying to reclaim an oil refinery in baiji. this operation comes as the u.s. and iraq are engaged in this nasty war of words over the isis fight. defense secretary ash carter accusing the iraqis of lacking the will to fight in an exclusive interview with cnn. the death toll from a dangerous heat wave in india now reaching a staggering 766 people. the severe heat as high as 118 degrees felt in two southern indian states and it's been felt the last few days with little relief forecast for the next week. that death toll is higher than expected. dramatic video for -- explosion on interstate 35 in detroit. the truck carrying 9,000 gallons of fuel. this is a view from the passing car. the driver of the truck told police that his wheels locked up causing his tanker to flip. officials say some fuel seeped into the sewer system but did not contaminate detroit's water supply. my goodness look at that. >> the fuel go in but not have any impact either. big question how do they measure. all right. let's get to inside politics on "new day," john king how are you doing, my friend? >> great on this tuesday morning. how are you guys doing? little bad cop, good cop going with me inside politics the associated press ted o'keeffe of "the washington post." bad cop, good cop, joe biden and ash carter the vice president of the defense secretary. here's what the vice president said yesterday. he called the iraqi prime minister and the white house put out a read that the vice president recognize the enormous sacrifice and bravery of iraqi forces over the past 18 months in ramadi. the vice president pledged full u.s. support in these and other iraqi efforts to liberate territory. it was reaction to this secretary of defense ash carter exclusive conversation with cnn's barbara starr. >> what apparently happened was that the iraqi forces just showed no will to fight. now, we can give them training. we can give them equipment. we obviously can't give them the will to fight. >> now, the vice president was being diplomatic here. but ash carter isn't saying this on his own. he sees the intel what's happened on the ground. what's happening here? >> ash carter is certainly saying what a lot of people in washington believe. but this is a difficult situation. the administration does not want troops on the ground, they're limited in the air strikes they can do because they feel there are too many civilians killed that will give isis a propaganda coup. that's the card in this situation in a lot of ways. >> really for biden, if you track his movements closely, you know he doesn't do a lot in public that catches public attention. but if you read the information that comes from his office he spends an awful lot of time still talking to iraqi leaders, to kurdish leaders in the north and to regional leaders across the middle east. he's still very concerned throughout this. undoubtedly carter's comments will cause a lot of undulation. >> new defensive under way. largely between the republicans there aren't a lot of democrats saying put more ground troops in. they're very worried what happened last go-around in iraq. iraqis aren't willing to fight. is that going to create support for troops? >> i think it's hard to create public support for sending troops after so many years of war in the united states. certainly there's a sense in the republican party and the republican primary that people want a more muscular defense. an interesting quick switch for the republicans who just a few months ago were pursuing more noninterventionist approach here. >> one guy who will not be calling for troops in iraq is governor sanders. he's officially in the race already. but today he's going to do the big rally, the lakeside in burlingburl g burling burlington vermont. he says look he's not going to be clinton inc. he can't raise a billion dollars. but he does tell the a.p. organization he can raise $50 million for primaries gets about $4 million since launching the average contribution. i was at a big benefit last week for a community service organization a lot of young people there. literally a dozen approached me, don't forget bernie. no evidence he can beat hillary clinton yet but there's something going on here. >> i mean certainly there's a desire in the party. senator sanders wasn't the guy they wanted. they wanted senator warren but he's the guy they have. the question i have is whether he's not going to attack, he doesn't do character attacks but does he take tough shots at hillary clinton, does he go after the foundation and speeches like that then we'll have a race. i think if that doesn't happen it's more of sort of a campaign to push the left on certain issues. >> he is a figure who want the chance to rally behind somebody who's saying what they're thinking who may not have any chance. get maybe nine months out of him, get a good exercise out of him. he's very popular in certain pockets of new hampshire and eastern iowa. you're looking western new hampshire and eastern iowa. that will force clinton to go to those areas, to say things to do things to win those democrats back. i think mostly he'll serve as a catr trks cathartic figure. >> we don't see them in public all that often. hillary clinton marching in a memorial parade in chappaqua, new york. smart to her part she refused to take any questions about politics saying that's not the reason for this day and it's not the reason for this day. so good for her and good for them to march in the parade. focus a bit on the republicans. do i call them under dogs? do i call them long shots? rick perry about to get in rick santorum about to get in george pataki about to get in, former governor of new york. look at the bottom of the pack in the polls. we're just showing the bottom of the pack. jeb bush is on top, scott walker but look from cruz to pataki pataki. you could look at this and say you know, okay, what are these guys doing? or you could look at this and say, ed there's no front runner the guy who's on top of the national polls is at 17%, rick santorum at this time four years ago is at 1% or 2% in iowa only had to get to 24.6 just shy of 25 to win. are they under dogs long shots, nobody? >> they're sitting tight knowing most republicans, most americans aren't paying attention to this at all. and i think one or two of these guys catch fire they will jump. we've seen this flavor of the month, flavor of the season before, i think we're seeing a little like now with people like carly fiorina in iowa i think if you're a 2% right now you don't have to be worried. if you're 2% in december hang it up and go home. >> the whole system has changed. all you need is to find a freelance billionaire to float your campaign and you can stay in this thing for a long time. if you don't win the presidency you can get a nice contract a book deal a tv contract. so there's a lot of incentives to run. and there's far fewer incentives not to run just because of the structural changes. >> keeping a list of these freelance billionaires? >> yeah, i need some freelance billionaire money in my -- yeah. >> right now there's no reason. >> and let's be honest this is not -- the debate you're going to do with the lower tier somebody could catapult out of that debate into the top tier based on one 30-second sound bite. all they need is a moment. >> never seen anything like this and you've got some serious people. governors down there, interesting people sometimes they take off. as we close and get back to you, alisyn, show you pictures yesterday of vice president biden. we showed president clinton and secretary clinton in the parade. vice president biden also doing some memorial day work yesterday. this is the ride to recover from from d.c. to virginia they start at the naval observatory. saluting veterans saluting those who served our country. memorial day for those who paid the ultimate sacrifice. it is always a good day, 365 days plus a year. kudos to the vice president for taking part. >> nice to see him getting involved. looks like everybody was happy to have him along for the ride. john, thanks so much. all right, the trial of "the washington post" reporter accused of spying begins this morning in iraq. when and how will he be freed? 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>> well you know i think from their perspective it's a debate that they have in iran where do you draw the line between aggressive reporting and what they would consider activities that harm the state or even es espionage espionage. every society defines that differently. here in the united states representative king came out on cnn and demanded that glen gree wald be tried for espionage. he was afraid he would be charged with espionage here. it's a crime that i think has a political connotation to it because of course a state is interpreting on its own how it sees its interests and how it sees them harmed. here you have a particular problem with iranian-americans who are not entering iran on a visa. they enter iran on an iranian passport. so they're also treated as iranian citizens. and they're not given the same kind of consul access. >> all right. but let's go from the subtle to the more severe on this. i'm not supporting the allegations that we're referring to about glen greenwald, but that was about the responsibility of a journalist and what to do with information you're given and what wasn't redacted and what was put out there in the open space for good or bad reason. so that was very separate. this is this guy resigned. what proof has come up in any way that he was doing anything but his job? >> you know nobody knows the specifics or the details of the case. nobody outside of the prosecutor's office from what i understand in iran has actually read the file. but when the iranian foreign minister was here a few weeks ago, i had the opportunity to see him in new york. and he spoke publicly. where he said the case against jason involves him being taken advantage of by someone working for the united states in some way to actually divulge information about iran that would harm iran. so in some ways it is similar in terms of how the iranians see it to the case of glen greenwald where jason was not acting in their perspective in ways that would protect the iranian state. you and i may think this is terrible, we sympathize with him greatly. but in terms of this debate between aggressive journalism and espionage, this is a problem a lot of countries have and iran is in the spotlight for this problem. >> it seems like there's no fine line between reporting and espionage. they're very different things. doing it in the kangaroo style court it seems to come at the same time you have one of their military chiefs coming at the u.s. and saying that president obama hasn't done a damn thing to help in iraq. it seems like they take every chance they can to poke a stick in the eye of the united states is that unfair appraisal? >> well you know, there's an ongoing war. for 35 years the united states and iran have been essentially at war. some people call it the twilight war. but since the revolution in 1979 we have never accepted the islamic republic of iran and this is a core problem. we have spent hundreds of millions of dollars both in terms of covert programs and covert activities to under mine if not overthrow that government. we shouldn't really be shocked that they then turned. >> i think the shock is that you're at the table at all. this is why people are saying why are you negotiating with these guys when they do nothing but cause chaos in places and attack their citizens. >> the same thing could be said of china. the reality is in today's world we are not the one and only super power. we have to deal with rising powers as they are. whether it's the islamic republic of iran or the people's republic of china there's no getting around it. we can sympathize with americans who fall into a bad situation in these countries, but we can't say that we're not going to deal with these millions of people in these countries with an extraordinary amount of power. we need iran in iraq yemen, in syria, throughout the middle east to attain any of our objectivities. we can't close our eyes to that. >> what do you think happens here? >> i think the family needs to be braced for the worst unfortunately. i think the treatment of jason and what he's gone through shows that i think underscores that the prosecutors are very serious about their case. that said though there is a process as there is here for clemency. and i think it behooves anybody who cares about jason to try to push at the time as soon as the judicial proceedings are finished for clemency and for him to be able to return to his family. >> obviously the frightening possibilities that a trial expected to last two to three days could wind up resulting in years of this young man's life. thank you very much hillary, always good to have you on the show. >> thank you very much. we're going to talk more with jason raizain's brother live. alisyn. okay chris, we'll look forward to that. meanwhile, who will buy time warner cable? and what will it mean for your cable bill? we have answers ahead. many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles. clinically proven neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair with the fastest retinol formula available, it works on fine lines and even deep wrinkles. you'll see younger looking skin in just one week. stop hoping for results, and start seeing them. rapid wrinkle repair... ...and for dark spots rapid tone repair. from neutrogena®. see what it means to never settle. try t-mobile risk free for 14 days. (mom) when our little girl was born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. when you're on vacation, it's time to play. so at hilton we say play hooky from your regular monday. and while you're at it play hooky from the ordinary. the uninspired. the routine. but mostly, just play. when you plan a vacation at any one of hilton's 12 distinct brands you always get the lowest price. only when you book direct at hilton.com. time for cnn money now. chief money correspondent, christine romans talking myrrh jurors. >> a deal to merge two charters. together the company would add 18.8 million broadband subscribe subscribers subscribers. and the merger still has to pass government regulators, though. and the executives are saying that the that it could mean better customer service. >> or it could not. >> cynics. we shall see. >> cynics, otherizewise known as cable subscribers. let's bring in andy scholes for the bleacher report. >> i am from houston. when it floods there, it gets bad. i spoke with my father-in-law a few moments ago and he works at the toyota center and he is still there right now, and there was fans there until 6:00 a.m. local time, and this was a pic from a few hours ago, and officials recommended to fans they stay in the seats after the final buzzer, and dwight howard was among those that could not get home so he came out on the floor to hangout with the fans stranded because of the flooding. and a scary moment curry goes tumbling over ariza and lands on his head. after going through concussion tests, curry would rush to the third quarter. and then howard and andrew getting into it. howard swings and he was called for a flagrant foul. and this gets the warriors within six, and then the rock let's live to fight another day with the 128-115 win. the silver lining for the members and fans that had to stay in the arena, at least they were not mourning the end of the season and they were all sitting around for hours and hours. >> one of the games you will never forget. >> good luck to your in-laws down there. >> thank you. and here are some pictures of the massive flooding. we are live at the top of the hour with a look at the unbelievable devastation. is there any relief in sight? ♪ i am never getting married. never. psssssh. guaranteed. you picked a beautiful ring. thank you. we're never having kids. mmm-mmm. breathe. i love it here. we are never moving to the suburbs. we are never getting one of those (minivan). we are never having another kid. i'm pregnant. i am never letting go. for all the nevers in life state farm is there. the average person will probably eat something or drink something that is acidic on a daily basis. those acids made over time wear the enamel. a lot of patients will not realize what's happening to the enamel. once it's gone it's gone away for good. i recommend pronamel. it's designed specifically to help strengthen the teeth. pronamel will actually help to defend the enamel from the acids in our diet. if you know that there is something out there that can help why not start today? why weigh yourself down? try new aveeno® sheer hydration. its active naturals® oat formula... ...goes on feather light. absorbs in seconds... ...keeps skin healthy looking... ...and soft. aveeno®. naturally beautiful results. when you're on vacation, it's time to play. so at hilton we say play hooky from your regular monday. and while you're at it play hooky from the ordinary. the uninspired. the routine. but mostly, just play. when you plan a vacation at any one of hilton's 12 distinct brands you always get the lowest price. only when you book direct at hilton.com. with xfinity from comcast you can manage your account anytime, anywhere on any device. just sign into my account to pay bills manage service appointments and find answers to your questions. you can even check your connection status on your phone. now it's easier than ever to manage your account. get started at xfinity.com/myaccount he was, like i don't know if i am going to make it but i love you. >> people still missing. >> the challenges are not over yet. there will be more rain to come. a major operation underway in iraq. >> the operations will be northeast off falluja. >> this of course includes ramadi. >> eight people killed in the city of baltimore this year. >> we have come to far to have this type of setback. >> we cannot walk in our neighborhood without getting shot at. >> the skies over baghdad have been illuminated. >> 35 years of cnn. >> cnn. >> cnn. good morning, and welcome back to your "new day." it's tuesday, may 26th. 8:00 in the east. we are following breaking news here at home and overseas. in iraq government forces are going all in against isis in a must-win fight for anbar province and texas and oklahoma just getting crushed by flooding. deaths are rising as the waters do and the desperation as well. >> intense rain and flooding blamed for six deaths and 12 people reported missing at this hour. >> and what are you seeing jennifer? >> reporter: well so now that the sun is up and we are finally getting a first glance of this and we are on the banks of blanco river and you can see it raging behind me and this looks more like tornado damage than flood damage. at one point over the weekend the water was above these trees, and this river rose to 43 feet and now it's starting to recede but the damage has been done. there are houses on top of hills that have been completedly lycompletely wiped off their foundations, and 12 people still missing. >> this morning record-breaking and deadly floodwaters continue to wreak havoc across central texas and oklahoma. >> more rain is to come. >> nearly 40 counties in texas under a disaster declaration. a dam unable to hold the rain flooding a highway. family members desperately wait on dry land. >> i kept calling him over and over and, i was, like are you okay? >> rescues by air and water. the national guard called to rescue 13 people including three children trapped in a rental cabin in southeast oklahoma. >> the water came up quicker than expected. >> in texas, around a dozen people are still missing, including two pea families with children. >> and julie recalls the last phone call with her sister. >> call mom and dad, i love you, and pray. >> along with her husband and two children inside the vacation home swept away and her husband said he tried to save his family but the cabin split into. >> she was out with her date and dancing and laughing. >> and on her way back from prom south of san antonio, and her car stalling out in high waters and she called 911 and her father. >> they were not able to find her until this morning, and she has her place in heaven where they will meet her again soon. >> reporter: we are going to see better conditions over the next couple days. it's overcast now, but no torrential downpours expected here, and we could see isolated activity but we are expecting the rivers to go down. they have crested, and otherwise we are continuing to see a major flooding problem down in houston and a lot of rain combined with all of the water flowing downstream and adds insult to injury and it will fill the rivers south of here faster and with the additional rainfall that's where we are seeing all the major flooding in houston, and the flood watches and warnings still in effect all across texas and even portions of louisiana, and we have seen over eight inches of rain in hue houston in about 24 hours, but we are going to dry out for a couple days in the hill country as they continue to clean up and search for those missing people. >> yeah and just down the road from where she is is san marcos texas. we have the mayor of that city joining us right now, mayor daniel guerrero. can you hear us okay? >> yes, fine thank you. >> we understand you have been having communication issues there given all the rain. how are you managing to communicate outside the county? >> we are doing our very best. as you mentioned, just having significant issues because of the weather and flooding with the cable communications and television, and a lot of the communication that we have been able to do fortunately has been either through the reverse 911 when we were able to go ahead and start encourageing people to make plans to leave their homes prior to the event taking place, and then certainly social media, and we have been trying to utilized social web sites, and certainly people have mobile devices and cell phones have been great, and radio, i can't commend our radio stations enough. >> yeah and i know this has got to be taking a toll on your rescuer kurz and first responders, and we understand five of the police cruisers there in san marcos was swept away by floodwaters and a fire station was inundated, and how are your first responders doing? >> a wonderful job, from the very beginning and through everything and now they are doing an outstanding job. the five cruisers they were not swept away they were caught up in fast rising waters within neighborhoods, those vehicles have been taken out of rotation and we have other assets we are trying to get into neighborhoods where they are needed and our police officers and firefighters have done an outstanding job and are fine. we have a great team that been the over to the fire station, firefighters to people from our hr department and in between went in and got the facility cleaned up, and it's going to be a great deal of time before it can be operational. >> they have a lot of hard work in front of them. a man was killed in the flooding, and there are 12 people missing in hays county that came from families that gathered for the long weekend. any update you can give us on the situation regarding the 12 missing people. >> i don't have any new information to share at this time. we did find an unidentified body earlier in the event, and we are still working diligently to identify this person and to be able to share a bit of information. in regards to the other group, i do not have any information at this time to the numbers of adults versus the numbers of children but what we do know is that we are receiving good leads that are helping us move towards getting more definitive information that we can get in touch with families. >> have you seen anything like this? >> we have seen plenty of tphrading here and my home and my parents home have been damaged over the weekend, and this is a new flood of record. but to seat community come together over the last 48 hours to help their neighbors and to help people living on the other side to come over and provide resources and prayer and energy and it has been a tremendous response to our residents and surrounding neighbors, and we are going to rebuild and do our very best to get this situation cleaned up and move forward. >> we send our best thoughts and wishes to you there and help you weather this storm. thank you for joining us on "new day." >> thank you. we do have breaking news this morning coming out of iraq. government forces have the city of ramadi surrounded on three sides and this is a must-win battle to get the city and its pride back. we go to our cnn correspondent live in baghdad. what is the situation on the ground nick. >> reporter: the announcements, they have translated into the progress on the ground and they did announce on state television we heard from the shia militia that gave details to what they would be do and the iraqi government and they were focusing on the supply route to the east and they are heading towards the key oil refining town, and they want to sever that first and we are hearing from the prime minister here and ministry of defense, and their moves to try and get into anbar and bush back at a later stage, and perhaps these groups can read off the same script and the militia answering the call of hussein is that relevant in the culture, and i think that will have many concerns particularly in washington and that will put out what is badly needed in the fight, and the question is how fast can we see progress on the ground. >> nick, will the u.s. military get involved in the operation to take back anbar province? barbara starr joins us live. what are they saying? >> iraq has always been a patchwork battlefield, and that's the pentagon's point of view, and some places force fight well, and in ramadi they did not. they are looking at the new operation from the pentagon point of view hoping it works but being very cautious about it at this point. in big change in u.s. military strategy. look for two things to continue to be the basic pentagon line. first, u.s. air strikes are only going to be used in this operation and other operations when the u.s. has its own intel intelligence to show where to drop the bombs. it wants its pilots to know not to hit the areas, and so going back to what nick was just saying if you see the sunnis on the ground if you see the shia militias on the ground the u.s. will use air strikes but only in support of the units directly under the control of the iraqi government and that continues to be a big problem, and a lot of shia militias operating on their own and the u.s. wants the sunni tribes more involved but how to get them involved remains a big question. >> one of them anyway. let's bring in our cnn military analyst and u.s. retired army general. let's check the boxes of the big issues here. one, do you believe the iraqis can turn it around and take ramadi in short order? >> that will be determined. that's a very tough question to answer. we have seen in recent days that they have not demonstrated an ability to show up and any capacity to fight really has rested with the shia militia in the form of the corp. and a different militia, and this becomes problematic because you have shias in sunni anbar. >> is it saying the will to fight is not what it needs to be on the iraqi fight? >> it is simplistic but what you want to do in warfare is keep it as simple as possible because even the most simple plans suddenly once in contact can unravel and become complicated, so what we saw in ramadi was forces that would simply leave the battlefield. that's leadership that has just simply dissipated and gone away. you have to have leadership that holds those units together so they will stand up and fight and that only happens when leadership decides they want to show up and be a part of the solution. >> more men and women in your part of the world tell me don't think about what is going on right now but think about what happens next and what happens if isis is taken out and what replaces that and they are taking more and more about iran and that comes on the heels of the a main military figure saying it's not about the iraqi's will to fight, and it's not about american's will to fight, and he says barack obama has not done a damn thing. what do you think of this? >> we are setting up and we are seeing the stages for a very very broad sectarian conflict that will be enter generational and that's shia against sunni, and barberism that we have seen at different levels. this is our new normal. the key for us is to not allow it to expand and our administration has acknowledged if iraq is not going to step up let's do the best we can to hold on what exists. this is what we need to be able to acknowledge is that tehran is setting up a much larger issue for us in this part of the world, and we need -- we are not focusing right now and we need to focus on what is happening in rekwraud. what do you think the partners in the kingdom of saudi arabia are thinking. >> iran further kphraucomplicateing it because the more iran is involved they are opposed to that and that takes us to the second layer of this. do you think provocative, but could it be true that in terms of keeping iran at bay, the united states would have been better off with saddam hussein in control there? >> oh, very hypothetically and that's the question if we knew then what we knew now would we have invaded iraq and taken saddam down. saddam clearly held that place together. central figure very strong hand and very brutal throughout his -- the country of iraq and development of chemical weapons and use of chemical weapons against his own people, and you look at that and you say you have got to be kidding me and this guy has to go away, and let's not talk about saddam but a central figure that is galvanizing and can bring the area together, and we have not found that guy. >> people listening at home they will say we are talking about a war in ramadi but all other things are involved. >> it's the strategy and the long-term view. thanks. the first session is over for the american journalist. and we have becky following along for us. >> good morning, michaela. the shameful acts of injustice continue without end and those are the words from the "washington post" senior editor. a relatively short session and no date has been released for the continuation so the facts in this case the 39-year-old iranian american arrested in july last year along with his wife and a number of others who were later released on bail but jason has been in prison at time for consolitary confinement, and he was charged with spying and illegally gathering classified information about iran and passing that on to washington. and the judge in this case has been accused of putting down politically motivated decisions, and so the question is is he is pawn. and we have no idea in this case when it will continue. >> we will be speaking with jason's brother about all of these issues momentarily here on "new day." the city of cleveland and the justice department set to announce reform to the city's police force, and it comes in the wake of the acquittal of a white cleveland police officer. good morning, nic. >> the city of cleveland agreed to the changes after what doj officers said there was violation. there will be court supervision of the police department. when it was announced by eric holder they agreed there needed to be changes to the police force, and this morning the local paper in cleveland announced the u.s. attorney's office in the city has asked stake holders in the community to come and talk about this so-called pattern of excessive force, and the timing of this all very peculiar. over the weekend small scale demonstrations and meanwhile the city is under pressure to explain the death of 12-year-old tau mere rice a young man shot and killed by police while brandishing a pellet gun. >> we will tell you about a passenger that travelled from liberia to new york and they died from lossa fever. no symptoms or fever upon arrival nine days ago, and went to the hospital with that a sore throat and died. there never has been a known case of person to person transmission in the u.s. here is a question for you. how was your memorial day weekend? i bet it was not like chris norton's? he walked the stage this weekend to accept his diploma from luther college, and doctors gave him a 3% chance of walking again after suffering a spinal cord injury, and sunday he defied the odds with a roaring crowd cheering and see the beautiful lady beside him, and he also proposed to his girlfriend, emily, and she accepted and the two are set to be wed. >> how was your memorial day weekend? just saying. are you stealing the good stuff today? >> a 3% chance of moving anything below his neck again. >> and he says he is going to keep going, and the message is you can't give up on yourself. >> we will take as much good stuff as we can get. >> with the amount of bad, we really have to move the balance in the other way. >> let us know what you think about all that. also the violence is on the rise in baltimore, but arrests, strangely, are sharply down. how do police explain that paradox? we'll tell you, next. i want a great shape. who doesn't? so i work out. i'm good. i juice. and then there's that other thing. this... i can do easily. new benefiber healthy shape. just a couple of spoonfuls every day means fewer cravings. plus, it's all natural, clear, taste-free and dissolves completely. it's clinically proven to keep me fuller longer and helps keep me healthy inside and out. new benefiber healthy shape. this, i can do. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ such a shame it's labeled a "getaway." life should always feel like this. hampton. we go together. always get the lowest price, only when you book direct at hampton.com don't just visit new york. visit tripadvisor new york. tripadvisor not only has millions of real traveler's reviews and opinions, but checks hundreds of websites, so people can get the best hotel prices. to plan, compare & book the perfect trip, visit tripadvisor.com today. it has been the deadliest month in baltimore in 15 years, and homicides reached 35 this month and the last time the city had that many homicides in a single month in 1999. what is fueling the violence? let's discuss it with the retired nypd detectivive, and our cnn political commentator. i was listening to some of the details in a city that four years ago had the lowest number of homicides since 1978 which was 196. i have heard anything from locals and somebody said freddie's death was like an earthquake and these are the aftershocks and somebody said that's what happens when the police are over taxed or over stressed. what do you think? what is your assessment of what is happening? i will start with you, harry. >> it's hard to figure that out, but the fact is i think that maybe the police officers are feeling that every time they take some kind of action they are vilified by the press or politicians, and they are thinking why should i go out of my way out here for people that hate my guts? we have police officers locked up in baltimore, and it was before that and it was automatically that the police officers were the bad guy here without the investigation being fully conducted. >> and it goes around about because the people in the black community are saying we are not the bad guys here so why are we -- >> and sometimes the bad guys feel empowered because the cops are not going to do nothing, and it's a free for all. >> what is your assessment? >> one, i disagree with that and if i was a police officer i would disagree with that, and police officers would say because it's freddie gray no way, and somehow police are afraid to do their job, and that's a narrative that police spin to make them not prosecute them. this is an issue of structural inequality, and when people don't have food clothes and shelter, they shoot each other. >> i talked to police officers and i called officers down in baltimore and spoke this them. they are hoping it's not so much what happened in baltimore itself, and we see a hike in the crime rate all over the country, and new york homicides up 10% and shootings up 10% -- >> but to go from the numbers preto post that's a significant increase? >> i have spoke to police officers about this, and when i run into a scene with a shots fired called i am not going to take the time to do it myself and that's what you see. and police officers feel if they are not being backed you know am i going to go to jail for the next decision? cops worry enough of being killed in the line of duty, and now they are worried about going to jail. >> for shooting unarmed people. >> you can do that under certain situations. >> yes, under certain situations and there are many when you cannot. police are not going to jail for killing people a whole lot, and even the nationally televised cases, ferguson nobody went to jail for that. >> what happened in ferguson? police were vilified. >> police are not going to jail for killing people. >> is that concern warranted? we heard the reverend talking to crisp there is a wild wild west mentality on the streets of baltimore and they are concerned about the attitude and he is concerned about the lives that have lost? >> you should be. he was concerned with the lives lost -- >> why aren't they demonstrating about the crime going on? >> you can't protest. >> of course you can. black lives matter. >> you are disagreeing with the point i am making. you can't protest your way out of gangs killing each other. they are not going to stop killing each other. we march people to stop killing each other with impew tea. i have been in chicago doing conflict and dispute resolution- and you get people jobs food clothing and shelter, and i hold the police to higher standards than the kreupz when it comes to killing black people. >> this is a situation that is clearly not going anywhere anytime soon. thank you. the espionage trial of "washington post" reporter rezion and his brother on "new day," next. when cigarette cravings hit, all i can think about is getting relief. only nicorette mini has a patented fast-dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. i never know when i'll need relief. that's why i only choose nicorette mini. i'm caridee. i've had moderate to severe plaque psoriasis most of my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ...stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare potentially fatal brain condition. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. in a medical study most stelara® patients saw at least 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. stelara® helps keep my skin clearer. ask your doctor about stelara®. here we go with the five things to know for your new day. number one, 37 texas counties under a state of emergency after record-setting rain and wide-spread flooding. so far blamed for six deaths in texas and oklahoma. 12 people remain missing. the iraqis launching an operation to reclaim territory from isis including anbar province and the city key of ramadi already surrounded on three sides. a violent memorial day in baltimore, police reporting 30 people shot and seven of them fatally. the murder rate up 47% in the city this year. in iran the first session over of the espionage trial for jason rezyen. and police say there is no evidence to support accusations that b.b. king was poisoned. they are taking the claims seriously, though. when michael sylvia was a teenager he witnessed a classmate being shot after being bullied. he is using it to impact your world. if you want to learn more go to cnn.com/impact. here is the story. after ten years traveling the world with a hit show "stump," he decided to shift his focus to a younger audience and he did not want to perform but he wanted to teach an important lesson. >> the reason we are out there to talk about bullying. who knows what bullying is? >> the motivation is personal. >> this kid was getting bullied, and he saw no other option but to go and grab a gun and bring it to school and stop the bullying. >> two students died that day and several were injured. this stuck with sylvia and led him to create the awareness through arts foundation and his mission is to use music and dance toke suppress themselves about bullying. >> i am there to let people know it's okay to speak up. if you are getting bullied and you are the person bullying it's okay to talk to somebody. >> who likes to dance? >> he doesn't want to show up every year but he wants to create after school programs and curriculum to keep the dialogue open year around. >> i want them to have creative outlets and to think and be able to compliment each other. >> good job! impact your world, stories of people getting back. volunteers of america helps 2.5 million americans each year and help us help america's most srul rawable. the average person will probably eat something or drink something that is acidic on a daily basis. those acids made over time wear the enamel. a lot of patients will not realize what's happening to the enamel. once it's gone it's gone away for good. i recommend pronamel. it's designed specifically to help strengthen the teeth. pronamel will actually help to defend the enamel from the acids in our diet. if you know that there is something out there that can help why not start today? are you happy here? >> i miss my buddies, and i miss burritos and i miss having certain beverages with my buddies and burritos. i love it and i hate it but it's home. it's become home. >> that was "washington post" reporter jason rezaian talking to bourdain last year shortly before rezaian was thrown in jail by the iranian government. and his brother is with us now. thank you for being on "new day." >> thank you for having me alisyn. >> the trial lasted a couple hours and then was adjourned, do you know what happened? >> it's illegal for iranian law for anybody to vie srulg what was going on in there, and jason's lawyer was present with him and that was it. both my mother and sister-in-law went to the court hoping they would be able to go in there and because they closed the court they were not able to go into the trial and they sat there and basically waited all day. >> just remind our viewers what happened. your brother and his wife were arrested in tehran last july for what authorities said was spying and of course that's a charge that you and your family as well as the "washington post" vehemently denies. why do you think jason was targeted? >> i think it's hard to tell. it's a very complicated situation over there. you have different factions within the governments that have their own political agendas and go about trying to get them in different ways than we do over here and you also have the larger conversation about the biolateral and multilateral conversations going on. we are not sure why. jason was the most meticulous journalist in iran, and he knew he needed to play by the rules and follow the rules, and his credentials were just renewed the day before they came and took him off to prison so it just came out of the blue. >> according to the new york times, the iranian government presented two pieces of evidence during the trial, and they said they had an american visa application for jason's wife as well as a form letter sent by jason to barack obama's 2008 white house transition team offering help to improve relations between iran and the united states. do you think those are evidence of spying? >> well in my opinion, of course not. those are consistent with what we believe were parts of the case file but i don't know what was presented in trial. what i can tell you is jason was trying to get a permanent residency for his wife which is pretty standard procedure, and as a result he reached out to the u.s. consulate in the area where he would have to go to do all of his paperwork and asked them to expedite the process, and that was the extend of that particular conversation, and then during the transition before president obama was sworn in and jason filled out a form letter online and said he had acknowledge of the iranian culture and had been living over there and wanted to help our countries understands each other better and offered help to become part of the administration and was able to get a job to help bring the countries together and not be so adversarial adversarial. >> your brother is the journalist that has been held the longest. >> that's correct. >> what do you know about his health? >> he has been isolated the entire time, and he has a cellmate and that's the only one he enter acts with except the guards and interrogators, and he had a multiple amount of issues including a variety of infections that went untreated, and he was taken out of the jail to get specialists to look at them, and we were concerned there would be long-term damage to jason, and we don't know the extent of the damage of what happened to him that has been inside, and it's difficult for him because of the isolation that he has had day in and day out for ten months. >> you have or your family been able to receive any help from the state department? >> yes, we are in communication with the state department. they speak with iranians and make requests as well as sending the requests through the protecting power of switzerland. president obama speaking out about it a few weeks ago at the correspondent's dinner i think shows a commitment of the government as well as the senate resolution that passed two weeks ago unanimously calling on the u.s. government to do everything in its power to get jason and the other americans released. >> the hearing ended today without any other future date for a next hearing though one will be assigned we assume. what do you want people listening to do to help? >> one thing that would help for folks to do is to go to change.org/freejason, and we have nearly 450,000 people signed it from 140 countries. on social media, go to #freejason and follow that story. we have information about reaching out to the iranian ambassador to the un. >> we will watch this story closely. >> thank you for having me. >> best of luck. let's get over to chris. here ask a happier headline for you. and in a few days cnn will mark a milestone. we have been with you for 35 years. a look at the biggest stories we have taken you to and anchor wolf blitzer will join us next. amopé and its premium foot care line. the new amopé pedi perfect foot file gives you soft beautiful feet effortlessly. its microlumina rotating head buffs away hard skin even on those hard-to-reach spots. it's amazing. you can see it and feel it. my new must-have for soft, beautiful feet. amopé pedi perfect. soft, beautiful feet effortlessly. when you're not confident you have complete visibility into your business, it can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. with innovative solutions that connect machines and people... to keep your internet of things in-sync, in real-time. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. listen up... i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. and now with... ...twice as much vitamin d ...which up to 90% of people don't get enough of. ohhhhhhh. the sunshine vitamin! ensure now has 2x more vitamin d to support strong bones. ensure. take life in. at book club they were asking me what you're doing now, janice. blogging. your blog is just pictures of you in the mirror. it's called a fashion blog todd. well, i've been helping people save money with progressive's discounts. flo, can you get janice a job? [ laughs ] you should've stuck to softball! i was so much better at softball than janice, dad. where's your wife, todd? vacation. discounts like homeowners' multi-policy -- i got a discount on this ham. i've got the meat sweats. this is good ham, diane. paperless discounts -- give it a rest, flo. all: yeah, flo, give it a rest. don't just visit orlando visit tripadvisor orlando tripadvisor not only has millions of real travelers reviews and opinions but checks hundreds of websites so people can get the best hotel prices to plan, compare and book the perfect trip visit tripadvisor.com today i dedicate the cable news network. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> approximately four shots were fired at the president. >> for 35 years we have been everywhere. >> one pocket of turmoil in the egyptian capital. >> and every story, and 35 years of cnn. >> cnn. >> cnn. >> just the look there, 35 years of broadcasting here at cnn as we approach the anniversary of our very first broadcast, june 1st 1980. my co-acresnchors were not even born yet. >> what does it mean to you, captain? >> i have been blessed to be with cnn for 25 of the 35 years. just going through all the 35 years and helping a little bit to put this piece together this one-hour special that we are going to do brought back so many memories not only for me but i am sure when everybody watches it all the news junkies out there, everybody will remember some of the biggest stories of the past 35 years. i think it will be a powerful hour, and if you can't see it live dvr it tonight because you will be impressed. >> of course cnn has been the gold standard for breaking news for all of these years, and here is a breaking moment about the breaking news about the first gulf war. let's watch it. >> we have now been on the air 20 minutes. >> now, the sirens are sounding for the first time. the iraqis have informed us -- >> and the line goes dead. >> they just cut the line. >> everybody is stunned and it's totally silent and you can feel the tension in that room. >> of course our biggest fright was that the bomb had hit the hotel where they were. >> the line is dead. >> the line is dead you hear, and they didn't know where the bomb had hit. >> it was really a dramatic moment and it really put cnn on the map, our coverage of the first gulf war, especially when the air war started to january 17th 1991. i was the military correspondent at the pentagon and i was aware of the enormous pressure that was put on ted turner who was the founder of cnn, and tom johnson was the president of the cnn, and they were getting those reports, peter arnett and bernie shaw out of baghdad, and the hotel where they were staying was a target for the u.s. air strike. we really stayed behind and had a fore wire which was a communication device that awill youed them to report live on the first night of the war, and i was reporting from the pentagon. like so many other people millions hundreds of millions of people i was so worried that these journalists at cnn in baghdad were going to be killed and thank god they got out okay and did an amazing job of what was going on. >> you were just recalling some of the stories we covered at cnn, and i am taking back when i was a kid and watching some of the things playing out, and faces have changed and we are new faces to the network, and breaking news has been the bread and butter for the 25 years you have been here and for the 35 years cnn has been around. >> yeah it's true. when there is a huge breaking news story, whether it's the first gulf war or what happened in boston at the boston marathon and what happened on 9/11, and cnn is there and will go nonstop, and bob, you just heard him say, and he was one of the executive vice presidents and he was in the control room talking about us we blow out all the commercials and go and this is what viewers in the united states want and viewers all over the world, and when ted turner created cnn on june 1st 1980 he wanted it to be worldwide, and it's become obviously that. take a look at how many 24/7 news channels there are, local, national international. he had a brilliant idea and it has really paid off. >> may be a lot of channels but there is only one cnn, wolf, and cnn remains the gold standard when it comes to telling people what they need to know. >> let me add one thing, i just posted on cnn.com a first person reflection on the gulf war, and i think it's entitled "the whole world is watching." check it out and let me know what you think. >> can't wait to watch it. 35 years of cnn airs tonight, 9:00 eastern and pacific. share your memories online using #cnn35. the good stuff, next. he doesn't need your help. until he does. three cylinders, dual overhead cams and 50 horsepower. go bold. go powerful. go gator. get 3,500 dollars off select gators at a dealer near you. 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"newsroom" starts now. happening now in the "newsroom," deadly flooding. >> the relentless tsunami-type power that this wave of water can pose for people. >> millions at risk. >> i kept calling him over and over, and i was like are you okay? are you okay? he was, like i don't know if i am going to make it but i love you. >> help coming too late for some including a high school seni
whether they return will depend on a number of factors, including the readiness of the rigs and the confidence that lessons from 2012 will be incorporated. full incorporation or not, it depends on one more thing, whether or not the government will decide to allow them back at all. they were the only ones that have ever been allowed. given shall's mess up, they send two riggs, the first one failed, the second one failed. one crashed into an island. given that record, they are doing an emergency review of whether arctic drilling can be done safely at all. one company they thought could do it was shelled. that actually just said, we think maybe we can do it, so we will stop trying. wow. what happened today was unexpected. what happens next in this industry is anyone's guess. the thanks for being with us tonight. it's time for the last word. have a great night. discrimination. >> we still need section five, and that is why we're here today. we must never forget them. 2006 chief justice roberts said things have changed in the south. >> four times, most recently in 2006. >> and that was just in 2006. >> with an overwhelming majority of bipartisan votes. >> what has happened since 2006? >> justice scalia made a statement that cuts through everything else. >> and i'm quoting him. >> some pretty incendiary language. >> in the past they have been more supportive. >> the gop seems to have lost some of its enthusiasm. >> there are still forces in this country that want to take us back, we must never give up, never give up, never give in. >> good evening, i'm chris hayes, in for lawrence o'donnell. the 13th amendment of the constitution, ratified the year the civil war ended in 1965, prohibiting slavery. they granted citizenship to anyone born or naturalized in the united states. and in 1950, they decreed that anybody shall not be denied to right to vote because of race, color or servitude. but the mechanics have left the states and localities, they gave the states explicit authority to enforce it. president johnson signed the voting rights to stop states and localities from using a darkly ingenious set of rights to stop them from voting. the mandate approved by the federal court was re-authorized in 2006, the senate voted 98-0, the justice department filed the justice department filed nearly a thousand objections to voting laws. and in the last election cycle alone, they passed early voting cutbacks in florida, and redistricting maps in texas, all under section five. federal courts agreed in most cases. but today, shelby county alabama legal experts, paid for, by a conservative activist, said they were wrong to react, because basically, racism is now a thing of the past in the south. >> i was 24 years old when we came under section five. i'm 73 last weekend. and we are still under the same formula, none of which has applied to us in many, many, many years. >> section five currently covers alabama, alaska, arizona, georgia, louisiana, mississippi, south carolina, texas and virginia. and some jurisdictions in several other states, including new york. during oral arguments, justice sotomayor spoke on the litigation permitted to catch the new forms of discrimination practices being developed. as the court struck down one form, the states would find another. justice scalia said the courts should be skeptical because it would be damaging for politicians to vote against the perpetuation of racial entitlement for minority voters. here was reverend al sharpton on the steps today. >> last year the id lines, and long lines and ending early voting, and stopping those going to the polls, showed that jim crow's son, james crow jr. is still trying to do what his daddy did. and that is rob us from the right to vote. >> joining me now is the co-director of the project which focuses on democracy and race. and i just want to get your thoughts on oral arguments today. i think we knew going into this, the last supreme court case this court looked at on the voting rights act, showed a tremendous amount of skepticism and hostility. i wonder, was today surprising to you? >> no, not surprising. i mean, you know, you have justice scalia, i think showed a little bit more of his attitudes towards section five, and towards race discrimination, and race discrimination issues also. his whole comment about this is a racial entitlement is just incredulous. you know, i haven't known in this country where we have had a time where there has actually been some entitlement because of race. in fact, when we look at section five, it is protection, not entitlement. and then justice sotomayor, thank goodness she was there on the bench as an advocate. the justices talked about the fact that we have not cured the disease of discrimination. so you know, no surprises, i think. so you know, at the end of the day we know it comes down to that one justice, justice kennedy. >> and what did you think of justice kennedy today? he had kind of a famous line the last time where he basically said you are insulting the sovereign dignity of the state, the state of georgia, the congress is valuing the sovereign dignity of the state. he said something that sounded similarly skeptical, and since it will almost certainly come down to justice kennedy, what were your thoughts on what he said about justice kennedy? >> my prediction -- oh, don't rewind. so my prediction is that he will side with us on this. >> hmm. >> that he will uphold it, because at the end of the day, justice kennedy sometimes has broken waves with the conservative flock. and he actually believes in fairness. now, i'm not saying that in every case he has been fair. clearly there have been some race cases in particular where we have been concerned. but i think that at the end of the day that fairness will rule. that there was enough information before congress in 2006 to say that we still need a voting rights act. and clearly, we know, chris, from all the coverage you have done that in fact in 2011 and 2012, we needed the voting rights act to hold back all the laws that made it harder to vote for voters of color. >> i want to bring in, as well, reverend al sharpton who attended the oral arguments today. and reverend, i'm curious what you thought about the oral arguments? >> well, i think there was outrage on both sides, i was outraged by justice scalia's comment, that the protection of voting rights, the discrimination in the areas, the districts, are referred to as a racial entitlement. but aside from that outburst, which i think shows at best, a deep insensitivity, for what the voting rights act was for and remains in effect for, i think that clearly, there is in my opinion enough of a record there to show why we clearly need to continue to have section five. when you look at just the last election, and all of the voter suppression schemes that this disproportionately affected the black voters in all states, it shows why we must have clearance and must have the ability for the justice department that the congress decided and reauthorized as late as 2006, they must have the authority to continue to protect those in those districts who have had various schemes to disenfranchise minority voters. >> you mentioned the rash of legislation in the last voter cycle. laws, cutdowns on early voting almost always pushed through, in states by republican lawmakers and governors. one of the strange arguments being made by the plaintiffs in this case is that we have had such a rash of restrictive measures taken in places that are not covered by section five, that the districts, like the state of georgia and those that are not covered, for instance, like the state of ohio means that the formula for figuring out what areas to target and which areas not to target is outmoded or unconstitutionally haphazard. and reverend, what is your argument on areas fighting against it? >> well, first of all i think it is a bogus argument in this case. because what are you saying? if i am one that feels that the defense is not that i stole, so everybody is stealing, so you ought to let me go because you didn't get the other thieves. that is the most irrational argument i've heard. and what is what they're saying, we're not the only ones doing it. not that we're not doing it. we're not the only ones doing it. the fact of the matter is these districts clearly under the voting rights act under section five. clearly were outmoded and clearly continues to be a problem. and when you look at it, it was outlined very well, i feel by the arguments today, we're outlining the impacts still going on in alabama, no state-wide districts that are elected, are the disproportionate impact, they should be monitored and under free clearance. if you want to make the argument it ought to be expanded to others, that is a different argument. but how does that in any sane argument say that you should therefore not leave us to our own whims? that we are not even arguing may not still be there, and would in fact continue to disenfranchise voters at least since 1864, as voters that need to be regulated. >> one of the cases in alabama, there is a bailout procedure for voter rights. if you have a clean record for a period of time, you can get out from under the fact that you actually have to go through this pre-clearance mechanism, right? shelby county could not, because as recently in 2008 they had a redistricting tragedy that led to getting rid of the lone representation from an african-american city council member. and judi, there was a moment where justice sotomayor said well, they may have changed, but you in fact haven't. >> and this is what is important in this case. under the voting rights act if you have not committed discrimination and are covered by section five, you can bail out. there have been about 200 jurisdictions that have bailed out because they have a clean record. shelby county, so too bad on you, you actually couldn't bail out, you have a history, and it is a present-day history. so i think this is where the case is going to come down to is that congress had enough information before it. president george w. bush signed the authorization of the voting rights act to section five. so there was enough before them. shelby county, clean up your act, get over it. stop discriminating, and bail out like the others have done. >> wonderful to have you here, and judith brown, thank you for joining us. >> and coming up, more on the voting rights act for republicans. what is really driving the conservative shutout of governor chris christie? 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[ female announcer ] secret outlast clear gel is better than the next leading invisible solid on white marks. secret outlast clear gel. today's supreme court arguments highlighted the paradox of the current racial problems of the republican party. the voting rights act has been a bipartisan piece of legislation. in 2006, congress voted on reauthorization. in the house of representatives it passed with 390 votes, 192 republican, 192 democratic, in the senate it passed with 98-0, 54 republican, 44, democratic, and the supreme court today, the one facing the horrible threat to its sovereign dignity, those two senators, both republicans, voted for re-authorization in 2006. here is president george w. bush signing the legislation with congressional leaders, the congressional black caucus and civil rights leaders. during his remarks, the president said this. >> my administration will strongly enforce the provisions of this law, and we'll defend it in court. >> so on one level, the national level, the voting rights act has been the rare issue not subject to tremendous partisan polarization. and yet on another level, the law designed to prevent the infringement on voting rights, the head of the pennsylvania party in the state legislature actually bragged about passing a law that disenfranchised the voter opposition. >> voter id, which allows governor romney to win the state of pennsylvania, done. >> with respect to voting rights itself, the ledger of states opposing the so-called pre clearance law has grown. in the 2009 case, only georgia and to a lesser extent alabama challenged the law head on. now five states, alaska, south carolina, and texas are asking the court to strike down the pre-clearance portion of a law. all the states are gop-led, and all among those subject to the process which they contend is burdensome and unfair. and the report ordered up, showing why it fared poorly with the voters didn't respond to several requests from the views on the voter rights challenge. today, eric cantor's office made this announcement, this week, house majority eric cantor will participate in the civil rights pilgrimage, he will be joined by a bipartisan delegation through alabama. the original congressman who helped to lead the civil rights act, helped to pass it in 1975. it appears though they would like to thread the needle, as andrew cohen wrote, many will get to see the death of section five without having their fingerprints on the weapon. that killed it. joining me now, ari melber. i thought the silence from -- we were moving around, looking for statements being posted by republican members of congress. the rnc, outlets of official republicandom, which sometimes weighs in on big cases, nothing, basically crickets. i am curious how you interpret it? >> easy, there was the unveiling of the statue of rosa parks, who led the movement, the most important civil rights victory of the movement. so i don't think they were going to unveil this statue and talk about how rosa parks was such a great inspiration and great woman, and then cross the street and say by the way, we think the voting right should be ruled unconstitutional. >> i think that is what is so remarkable about the case before the court. you have what is particularly by contemporary standards, a remarkable consensus on the piece of legislation. and the moment with scalia, which he refers to racial entitlement, the context in which he is making it. the context in which he shows that each subsequent reauthorization, that to his mind shows that it is something illegitimate, because there is a nefarious force of political correctness, that stops the members of congress from voting against the act. >> right, justice scalia said you have more and more republicans voting for it. they're afraid to vote against it. the rebuttal from the solicitor general says the task is really not to delve into it. the other argument, especially by chief justice roberts, you hear it at barbecues, well, we have a black president and black elected officials. what is the problem? the problem is the voting rights act is not about electing black people. it is about black people having the right to vote. that is where we started with the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment. >> and also we should say latinos, asians, minorities. >> absolutely, but when you go back to the text, the amendment of the constitution, which is what the court is supposed to do. when we talk about servitude, this is black people who were slaves in the country who had no rights and we were trying to secure the rights. it is so disturbing when you see that argument, that idea because barack obama won, the right that every other person has is somehow not as important to protect. and number two, and i'll finish here, number two, black people vote for white candidates, too. their access to the ballot box has nothing to do with who gets elected, necessarily. >> there is another argument about scalia's comment about racial entitlements. that is about 100 years ago, the supreme court actually nullified the supreme court amendment, they said reconstruction, that has been too much advancement. and two thirds of the 20th century of the jim crow laws, which the voting rights act was meant to overcome. >> right, it was later invalidated by the supreme court of the united states as specially an over-reach of the congress's authority and violation of the constitution. i think what is fascinating here in terms of the politics, this law is popular. i thought this was interesting, the state of texas, the state of texas has joined the suit on behalf of the plaintiffs, joining shelby county, saying get rid of this burden on us. you ask people, states should still be under federal supervision. 51% yes, states should be able to change their election laws without federal approval. the majority -- this is the lone star state, the independent republic of texas. if there is any place -- so there really doesn't seem to me any kind of broad grass roots political support for this provision. >> no, but this has been a long-term goal of the of the conservative movement to chip away at this law. even the chief justice, one primary job was to figure out ways not to enforce the voting rights act. this has been a long-term effort to chip away at the situation, the chief justice may get his chance to do so. >> i am concerned about what the political ramifications look like, as people nervously anticipate what is going to happen. >> i think there is a back lash, that goes back to something you were discussing with reverend sharpton, which is the james crow jr. argument, the voter id laws that people learned a lot about. justice sotomayor said it best, that is why there was the approach, you didn't have the free clearance, the moving of poll locations, voter id, a sinister one. you know, when you talk to a lot of black voters, they say 2008 was about him, barack obama, and 2012 was about us, because they were coming after our rights and our votes. a lot of people thought it was a political back lash that drove turnout. it may have been good politically, but also shows the cost when the court and states come in and try to get in the way of your right to vote. >> and i wonder, too, the underlying premise, there is some sort of temporal aspect to this, we're in a state in which the law is no longer needed. i think supporters of the law buy into that. i wonder if -- i actually don't think i believe it. i just think the remedy is needed because the impulses are just going to be there as part of society in american life. >> they have always been there, from the founding, and especially through the '60s until we had an effective legislative measure to deal with it. so that impulse to find out these new -- create these new innovations to subvert the law has always been there. i think the court is right, if the court strikes down the law and in response we can then make a demand for some kind of national voting law. coming up, when you don't want something to happen and you can stop it from happening, what should you do? 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[ male announcer ] in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. my patients don't know which one to use. i tell them to use the brand i use. oral-b -- the brush originally created by a dentist. trust the brand more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. did you know not all fiber is the same? citrucel is different- it's the only fiber for regularity that won't cause excess gas. it's gentle and clinically proven to help restore and maintain regularity. look for citrucel today. we found out two days ago the most popular governor in the country right now if polls are to be believed was not invited to speak at the annual cpac conference today. today we know why he was left out. they received an e-mail from al cardenas, which claimed he broke from traditional issues. he said it is like the all-star game for professional athletes, you get invited when you have an all-star year, hopefully he will have another all-star year, at which time he will be invited to attend. this is a conservative conference. presumably it means that cpac invited mitt romney, paul ryan, and spokesperson, cardenas clearly using a sort of complicated metrics we don't have access to. his e-mail cited the governor's support for the $60 billion aid for the hurricane sandy victims. in this move chris christie made just yesterday. >> it is simple, we're putting people first, which is why after considerable discussion and research i have decided to participate in medicaid expansion under the affordable care act. >> for the record, none of the eight republican governors who have come out in support of the medicaid expansion are speaking at cpac next month. chris christie was asked a question about the cpac snub during a town hall in new jersey today, to which he replied. >> listen, i wish them all the best, they get to decide who comes and not comes, it is not like i'm asking to be at other areas to speak, i can't sweat the small stuff. >> oh, chris christie. >> joining me now, krystal ball, david axelrod had a good comment, isn't cpac just making him stronger? i feel like you are really feeling the chris christie approach these days. >> it is just so funny, because he is the one republican elected official who is really figuring out how to appeal to moderates. his approval rating is 73 or 4, depending on the polls, he is beating the democratic challenger, he is figuring out how to make this toxic brand in new jersey, which is a pretty deep blue state. you would figure they want to take a look and figure out the compromises they want to make, in order to win elections. the problem is, he has shown you have to make compromises in order to win elections. and they don't like that message. >> i think that the conservative base -- puts a lot of -- emphasis on theater and symbolism, i don't say that as a condescending way, they all do that in terms of liberals and progressives. also, what is cross-pressured here i always feel like conservatives really love a winner and hate a loser. and that was the thing that allowed george w. bush to get away with things they didn't like, he was just so popular. i feel like things that are at war with chris christie, it seems to me that their loving of a winner is somehow losing out. >> i think that is shown, with them inviting mitt romney instead, and since you also got invited. i think you're exactly right. >> chris christie and i will be drinking in the hotel bar somewhere, during cpac, we'll send a form letter. >> no, i think you're right about that. he said some not so conservative positions from the beginning of the governorship. but he was so bombasic, he was out there in terms of rhetoric, they fell in love with this guy. >> absolutely, taking the huge amount of federal money. >> he really did go after the teacher's unions, and really about balance the budget, quote unquote, without raising taxes. he has been a conservative governor but has not been crazy. and it is not an accident that he is so popular and he is not tied to the national republican party. so by not inviting him to cpac it is just another way for him to be distanced from the national republican party, which is so toxic. >> i think it is important to keep in mind, though, when you look at the polls in new jersey, the approval rating is somewhere between 95 and 99%. >> he is managing to pull it off politically right now. >> right, the parts of his record that people in new jersey care about, the state budget, health care, the pensions, things like that, i think he has done things to satisfy them. also, i think he makes a strong argument about why you would take the medicaid expansion dollars. because it is money, you're paying the federal taxes anyway, the question is are we going to accept the money or not? he has been able to make the sale, and others are just obsessed. >> and uniting republicans in the past elections was their disdain for the president, so when he embraced vocally, for him, went across the line that they wanted him to cross. >> and in the days with george w. bush, i think i would hold a grudge, too, i would view that as a type of betrayal. >> well, i think it depends on the circumstances. in a way, i would. but if you look at the public polling, democrats are much more in general, they want to see compromise from elected officials. and republicans are much more, they want to see them sticking to their principles. >> and the fascinating thing, at the federal level doesn't seem to be any. but there is really a concrete score card now for the pragmatism, you have surprising people like tom corbett, in a blue state with a lot of people who could benefit from the expansion. jan brewer is on the side of expansion. how do you interpret that fault line? is there sense to be made of these two buckets, that they're dropping into. chris christie, on the side or not of expansion. >> rick scott was a hospital executive. >> and the hospital executives came to the floor of the house and were like bro. >> right, the big lobby, somebody from national review were saying i don't think people who want medicaid are a powerful lobby. and so i think that helps explain rick scott. it is interesting, you have this cluster in the southwest, -- where in, new mexico, and nevada, they have all taken the money. there is something interesting. >> you have susanna martinez and sandoval in new mexico, who are bright stars in the republican party. they have ideas already that would disqualify. >> sandoval doesn't push for a tax increase, so i think he has already blown that with republicans nationally. but i think there are two considerations for when you're deciding to take the money, one, the substantive policy, you're screwing the state if you don't take the money. >> thank you, chris. coming up, the rapid shift in politics and public opinion, post newtown. hello! how sharp is your business security? 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[ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? okay, this we know to be absolutely totally and 100% true about the $85 billion in sequester cuts that are ready to kick off on friday. a whole lot of politicos on both sides say they don't want them to happen. >> the president laid out no plan to eliminate the sequester and the harmful cuts that will come as a result of it. >> most people don't even know what sequester means, sequestration equals unemployment. sequestration, we don't want it. >> there is no question that these cuts are going to be painful, and they are thoughtless. >> and what sequestration is, it is a terrible way to cut spending, i don't disagree with that. what you hear is an outrage, because nobody wants to cut spending. >> there is no reason this has to happen, we just need to find a balanced approach, there is no reason we should be playing these kind of brinksmanship. >> there is no question, if we actually prioritize spending. >> could we talk about tom coburn's outfits and amazing look these days? okay, maybe later, so if there are a whole lot of legislators who don't want to see this happen, why does it seem like we're happening? especially, the way they're proliferating all over washington, d.c. essentially, the white house has a plan's on the white house website including $1.8 trillion in new deficit reduction, lots of cuts and new revenues. even a one-page cheat sheet. and both have their own plans, scheduled for a vote in the senate. the republican solution would maintain cuts as is, but gives president obama far greater flexibility for issues deemed important to security, like airport and traffic control security. it would delay the calendar year, off setting the cuts and tax increases. but none of the solutions would pass both chambers of congress to make their way to the white house and the president because there is not enough support for any of the proposals. well, i am here to tell you the good news, which is there is a system, clean solution that would stop the cuts that almost everyone doesn't want to happen. the bill was introduced called the balancing act, which would cancel the sequester, and replace it with a plan that would make responsible cuts to the budget. and again, they argue it would create a million jobs. realizing that in a republican house that sort of plan is going nowhere fast. the congressional caucus suggested something even simpler. this is not a cancel or replace plan. this week, they pushed the deal that if nobody can agree what to replace the sequester with, it should be cancelled. keith ellis of minnesota reads, if congress can't come up with a replacement for the sequester before the end of the week, we should eliminate the sequester entirely. if this goes into effect, this would be one of the largest legislative failure in the history of the republic, capital "r." in other words, pass a bill that would stop this bill that nobody wants to happen, happen. game over, one-line bill, pass it. again, remember how many people on capitol hill were on the record saying the sequester is really a bad idea. no matter who they're blaming for it. so why wouldn't the republican-controlled house take on the progressive plan? what is stopping them? i think it is pretty simple. deep down, the republicans want the sequester cuts to happen. but they don't want to take all the blame for doing it. coming up, what michael bloomberg had to do with the congressional primary in illinois and why it says so much about the post-newtown politics in america, that is next. we don come between us and what we love. so if you're one of them people who gets heartburn and then treats day after day... block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place! 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[ crows ] now where's the snooze button? jesse was the love of my life. he was -- the only family i had left. it is hard for me to be here today. to talk about -- my deceased son. i have to. i'm his voice. i'm not here for the sympathy, and a pat on the back. there are many people that stated in the town of newtown. i'm here to speak up for my son. >> that was neil heslin, father of jesse lewis, one of the 22 children massacred last month in newtown. he was there asking for the high capacity weapons to be banned. also, the doctor was there that responded to the newtown shooting. >> people say that the overall number of assault weapon deaths is relatively small. but you know what, please don't say that to people in newtown, columbine, or virginia tech, this is a tipping point. >> seems to be a tipping point for the public, too. a new wall street journal poll says that people favor stricter gun sale laws, up from 5% just last month. it is people shifting the calculus of who is going to give you money, your opponent money, and what re-election will look like depending on the position you take. yesterday we got a first post-newtown image on what it looked like. robin kelly won 52% of the vote. she had a little help from new york city's michael bloomberg, in charge of the pro-gun attack. former congresswoman debbie halvorson was beaten by her. >> you sent a message by the state and across the nation. a message that tells the nra that their days of holding our country hostage are coming to an end. >> joining me now, new york city deputy mayor for government affairs and community affairs, thank you for joining us. >> well, this was a special election, the only race going on right now. it is a race that was playing out in the middle of this very important gun debate in washington. so there was going to be a lot of attention placed on this race. and when we looked at the race and saw that former congresswoman, debbie halvorson, who had as you mentioned, an a-rating from the nra, was poised to lead. the mayor said we can't have that. somebody going to congress and being a vote for the nra. >> in some ways, this district is an interesting one, because there was kind of a mis-match between debbie halvorson on the issue. >> because of that, former congresswoman halvorson began in the lead and could have won, i think had -- not quite congresswoman -- congresswoman apparent kelly not run a very strong race, and had the mayor not gone in and made sure the voters knew about former congresswoman halvorson's record on the nra issues. >> i want to play a little sound bite talking about the role that mayor bloomberg and the super pac played. >> the biggest issue in the race was dumping a million to support one candidate. we can't let the democratic party cannibalize the democratic party for ulterior motives for the future. if this is the democratic party then we are all in big trouble. >> i'm curious how you respond to that. >> well, you know, there were comments up to the race that there could be a back lash, the fact that the mayor spent the money, the fact is that the party he was backing got 54% of the vote. the voters in the district didn't agree with the gentleman who just spoke. and look, for the very long time, the nra had the field to
carolina all republicans all called for bringing down the confederate flag ridding it from the capital. no one was more impressive than nikki haley, she mounted it with dignity, courage and charm. >> today we are here in a moment of unity in our state without ill will to say it's time to move the flag from the capital grounds. [ applause ] >> something important happened there, the cause, the defiant resistance to federal authority, triumph yankee troops and fearful imagine black helicopters with bumps aside but the black and white alike at the spectacle of racial hatred that showed its face in the emanuel church and yes, it is political. some leaders in the republican party, mitt romney jeb bush michael steele made positions clear up front. other haves takes have taken time to share politics. whatever is going on the decision on who to lead this country, is in this country getting serious this june. the fact jeb bush is coming up the fact hillary clinton is riding high says the same about democrats. we'll learn on both sides and enjoy them but both sides are headed to the business not of politics louisiana style as entertainment as a dazzling dance through a summer but the business of picking leaders that can make us a better country by grabbing the reigns and doing it like nikki haley did. flanked by a bipartisan group of politicians including senators governor nikki haley said it's time to remove the confed red flag from the property of the state house. let's watch. >> for those who wish to show respect for the flag on their private property no one will stand in your way. but the state house is different and the events of this past week call upon us to look at this in a different way. my hope is removing a symbol that deviets us we can move on and honor the nine blessed souls in heaven. we're not going to allow this symbol to divide us anymore. the fact people are using it as a sign of hate is something we cannot stand. the fact that it causes pain to so many is enough to move it from the capital grounds. >> the news was greeted by cheers including by a son of south carolina eugene robinson. >> having grown up there, i'm stunned to have seen that what we saw. it was a hell of a speech. i would on many political issues disagree on nikki haley but as an american i had to be proud of her today, performance, of what she said the way she said it, it was pitch perfect. >> the way she said it. major benjamin thank you for joining us. so much politics i've been in it for 40 some years. most of the time it's go into usual battle stations everyone does what they are to do. i thought your state looked good. >> i couldn't agree more chris, i want to thank our governor. she was flanked on her right by congressman clayburn and tim scott. it showed people exactly what south carolina is. we are good people, smart people, compassion et people and so often, we forget that symbol haves power, and that rhetoric, the redhetoric on tv and online that these things help drive our public conversation in a way that does not necessarily represent the people of our state very fairly. the governor did a great job today and so important because you hear calls and cat calls from the left and right, why not sooner. let me tell you what, it took some courage to step up and do what they did. it took courage from both parties, including independence far left and right but they stood together and showed there was one south carolina, state motto is doing spar row, spar row why we breathe hope and showed the this is an important first step toward reconsillation. >> proud to have an honorary degree makes me proud of south carolina as a visitor honored there. let me ask you about what it means to you. when you saw that flag at your state capital, the town you represent as mayor and saw it flying up there every morning and see it on the license plate of a car driving by pickup truck, what does that flag say to you personally? >> chris, you've been to south carolina. every street you go down if you're heading north or south, it's named after someone from the revolutionary war or civil war. this year as mayor of colombia first african american mayor of colombia, we commemorated the 150th anniversary of the burning of colombia. i got my start as president of the usc chapter, university of south carolina chapter marching on the state capital, marching on the sands of myrtle beach to bring the confederate battle flag down tonight say this is something that's so many people and i'm so thankful to the leaders here today but so important to recognize that so many people, so many have gone on to glory have given the time and energy and resources over the last 55 years, some names we will never here and some who thank god they are still with us like kay patternson who worked to make this day happen. it's increatebly moving to me we're making a step in the right direction and we're trying to make sure we build a south carolina, that our children are going to inherit it. i'm very proud of my state this day, this is a very important step in the right direction. the legislature still has to act and then hopefully after this issue is behind us, this majorishmajor ish major issue, we can talk about other important issues how to education children and get people -- >> good luck to you. >> uh-huh. >> congratulations and i mean for the role you're playing in the bidding of a better state. one of the very most prominent republicans to speak out about removing the flag was mitt romney. he tweeted take down the confederate flag to many it's a symbol of racial hatred. remove it now. he did that a couple days ago. today former new york governor made an equally direct call. here it is. this is before what happened with the governor. >> my position is simple the flag should go from the state capital grounds, period. >> jeb bush was clear in his attitude and statement and said my position to address the confederal flag is clear. we acted moving it from the state grounds to the museum where it belonged following a period of mourning about how south carolina should move forward. i'm confident they will do the right thing. john kasich said if i were a citizen of south carolina i would be for taking it down while other republicans dodged the question. here they are. >> people of south carolina dealt with this issue before. they have founded bipartisan consensus over a decade ago moving the flag to a new location and i have confidence to deal with that issue again. it's important to let the people of south carolina move forward. they shouldn't have a bunch of outsiders going in and them them what to do. >> the federal government doesn't have a role in this. >> you're a candidate for president. do you have a position on the this at all? >> i'm not a south carolinaen. >> those running for president, everyone is baited with this question somehow that has anything to do whatsoever with running for president and my position is it most certainly does not. >> are you comfortable displaying the confederate battle flag in public? >> i don't personally display it anywhere. it's not an issue for me so that's an issue for the people of south carolina. >> senator ted cruz rick perry, carly also said they would leave it up to the people of south carolina. you know we're going right now, here they are. okay we just lost the prompter for some reason. i'll go into my guest. i'm fascinated by this top pick because it's a time when you ask a politician who are you? >> yeah. >> and they give you an answer on these questions. it's a war shock test and give you different answers and i was so impressed with the guys that said yes this has to go down. >> this is a historic moment. governor haley did the right thing. there is a question of follow three. we got to get two-thirds of the state house to vote for this. will she use political capital -- >> she's got it. optimism. i think she will. >> i think she'll do it. >> what wants to be a diehard on this? who wants to fight for the flag? >> i hope not. they need to ask the question about the mind set in that state holding on to that flag. is she going to have conversations to get s tos to get to the bottom. >> i lived through the kennedy assassination, i knew it was a left winger who did it. most felt so bad it changed a lot of hearts for the same time. lbj didn't have a tough campaign because nobody wanted to fight against the kennedy legacy at that point nobody. >> i agree, look, i wasn't surprised by governor haley. i was down in charlton from the night it happened and she walked into the hotel and went to the second floor and met with the families. they were screaming, crying i saw her face when she left that room. i knew that flag was coming down. >> she was crying. >> history changes politics. >> history changes politics. this is the moment you see walker rubio, presidential campaigns try to control events but it's really about the things you can't control that tell us the most. >> listening to answers, they felt like states' rights answers which is why we got to this problem at the same place. >> rubio says we're unconfident unconfident, huckabee said they were baited. this isn't about the nearry evolution governor and one reason they don't like liberals they don't want to ask basic questions like why do you think the earth began? all we're asking is what do think about the flag? he says we're being baited. what did huckabee mean by that? he doesn't like serious questions. >> they want to have a conservative questions and run the primary but for them events happen and you're forced to respond. >> that may help some squeak through a primary but they want someone with a gut instinct. >> it's talk turkey. who are they appealing to? >> john mccain said he was afraid of going up against those who see it as a symbol of history. >> they are appealing. >> the flag went up in '62, 1962. >> italians put it up. >> put up there in the middle of the civil rights movement. not the old cause of robert e. lee and generals it wasn't about courage. i was about opposing civil rights. >> not just appealing to people that like the confederal flag but people who hold on to the a confederate mind set. it's a dark under belly of the political strategy and i think it will come out and people will see it for what it is. >> will it work this year? >> maybe in the primaries. >> do you thick -- >> i hope it won't. >> i saw a party in the polling we just did we'll talk about when nbc and wall street journal, the fact bush is not running and looking good and ran paul who i look in some grounds, libertarian is fading. i think hillary clinton is running strong. >> clinton got out in front of this and had republicans waiting to see how it unfolded that told us a lot. >> bill clinton. >> hillary clinton went out there and gave the speech on race. >> voting rights. >> more about that. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you robert costa. police may be closing in on the killers that broke out of new york prison they found dna in the cabin broken into 20 miles from the prison. me details on the manhunt. looks like they getting close. the race for 2016 good news for jeb bush and better much better for hillary clinton. with a tight race, both partyies are getting ahead of both prospects. the shocking number of sexual assaults on college campuses in the country. new york senator wants to do something about it. she's going to be here. finally, let me finish with my 35 year stroke of luck. you can figure that one out. this is "hardball" the place for politics. hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. we're coming back with the latest on the manhunt for the escaped prisoners. 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[ music plays ] don't settle for u-verse. xfinity is perfect for people who want more entertainment for their money. we have developed evidence that the suspects may have spent time in a cabin in this area. we have law enforcement officers from around the state and around the nation here today searching for more evidence. >> welcome back to "hardball." a new lead for david sweat and richard matt in upstate new york. multiple sources confirm the dna from both prisoners was found in a hunting cabin over the weekend in owl's head in franklin county. the owner said an individual fled an individual fled once he arrived. among recovered items were bloody socks and prison-issued underwear. the search centers in that area 20 miles west of the correctional facility they escaped from. capture seems close, i say that as an armature. indicated the evidence was a significant development in the search. >> we have recovered specific items from that cabin, we have forwarded them to the appropriate laboratories and reached conclusive determination but not prepared to release the evidence at this time so we do not jeopardize the continuity of the investigation. >> this is a confirmed lead for us. it's generated a massive law enforcement response snbc stephanie gas k and jonathan. stephanie, we got a lot of stuff, dna by both of them a jug of water, bloody sock which tells you they are going through hell there, peanut butter jar. how do we know how this looks and how far could they have gotten in 48 hours since saturday, not very far? >> reporter: not far if they are on foot. they had two weeks, 2,000 tips and law enforcement says every tip we'll track down. if you imagine 1,999 weren't great, this was comparable in comparison. not only a place they actually were outside the prison but also potentially a day if that cabin owner did indeed see one trying to flee. it is a significant development for the police on the ground here and you can see that as they all descend upon this small town. >> jonathan, you project their ability to move how far they move in 48 hours, assuming that gentleman escaping was one or two of them. can you project how far they go now given how far they can go in two weeks, if they went 20 miles in two weeks, four miles in two days or what can you tell? >> what we can predict is the pace at which they potentially could walk three miles an hour you know, that's fast over rough terrain but let's say they have a railroad track or locate a power line cleared and those run for thousands of miles. so if they can clip along it two to three miles an hour, i mean do the math. that's pretty good ways. i have a feeling these guys had probably been held up in this cabin or they may actually find other cabins they have been held up in because i've been saying all along, if they didn't have help on the outside, they had to turn to crime to support themselves because they have to have flat food,ood, water and shelter so they broke into a place. that's what always gives these guys away. often it's the orange jump suits but the gift that the prison system here gave to them were green jump suits, like a camouflage outfit. >> let me get back to stephanie. what do you think authorities behind this adrenaline two weeks without food and have peanut butter and water, that's pretty basic protein. >> it's interesting. this area is littered with hunting cabins and hunting season is two, three, maybe four months out of the year and the rest of the time those places are totally empty and a lot of times, the hunter wills store canned food and all sorts of things in the cabins. if they knew they were there and it's pretty easy to find them. there are lots of these access trails that lead up to these cabins, if they knew sweat sweat and matt they were there, they probably knew they could stay there for a couple days and food and shelter being what they need to figure out immediately once they broke out. >> stephanie, what is the strategy now? i heart about circles, what do you know about catching them in a dragnet right now? >> we've -- >> let me go to jonathan. go ahead stephanie. >> the last couple hours have been significantly restricted. >> jonathan, tell me about the strategy they are usually employed by authorities in manhunts. >> the ideal strategy you were talking about earlier would be where you have a quick reaction force. once they get a tip, the that they can quickly move you know 20 to 40 officers rapidly to this location so they can start searching out but the problem with that is that you're constantly trying to catch up with the guys as they move forward. you also want to be able to deploy people you know, ofto a period of point where they could have walked and search in and set up a blocking force around that with local authorities and where people that live in that area but i'm not real sure how that's working here or not because i've heard conflicting reports, they are throwing everything they have at certain big laegeads and started the point of origin. that's a mistake. >> lastly, i want to go to stephanie. how optimistic having gotten real, this isn't guess, this is dna, actually location of the guys 48 hours ago. >> you see energized law enforcement but they were like that last week as well and it's difficult to tell. i tracked the case in pennsylvania for awhile and there was that same exuberance along the hot leads that turned out to be nothing. you have a professional force out here and they certainly seemed to be energized by this information. >> dna is tough stuff to beat. thank you stephanie gosk and john. one in five women say they have been sexual assaulted on campus. senator kierston of new york is joining us on "hardball" the place for politics. moderate to severe crohn's disease is tough but i've managed. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but 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planned medical or dental procedures. i accept that i'm not as fast, but i'm still going for my personal best... and for eliquis. reduced risk of stroke... plus less major bleeding. ask your doctor... if eliquis is right for you. >> welcome back to "hardball." one in five college women say they were sexual assaulted in the past four years according to the washington post and kizer family foundation that includes everything from forced touching of a sexual nature to rape. the poll found that very few victims reported to police or to a university authority. critics say many colleges are more concerned with trying to preserve their image than holding perpetrators accountable. kirsten of new york state is outspoken and sponsoring legislation to sponsor how colleges deal with the problem and penalize schools that mishandle the cases. i spoke with the senator about it. i guess everybody who is a father and sent a young daughter to college is stricken by this news. one in five women who sign up as freshman are likely in fact do get assaulted sexually. >> these statistics and issue is alarming and what we need to do is flip the incentives on the institutions because right now it's not worth the while to report cases. we're trying to create transparency by having a talk about the campus if they have ever been raped, what happened? did they report? if not what happened? we've increased fines to actually hold them accountable when not reporting the crimes or adjudicating them properly. we want to professionalize the process. we have a lot of training and confidential trainer on campus so there is a uniform process at every school for how the cases are reviewed. we basically need to flip the incentives on the schools so they can begin to get it right. >> a lot of flathathers try to encourage their daughters to go to the a more conservative campus. what is your experience about that? are some schools better at handling this misbehavior, crime and others not? >> i haven't seen a campus that gets it right or has historically whether a big campus, small, public or private, this are issues of sexual violence on the campuses. we have to give schools tools to have a better subpoena better process. we need to be able to support survivors so they know what their options are and have communications with law enforcement so there is a plan in place if someone does want to go to law enforcement and go the criminal route. those are lacking. if we professionalize the system and have this survey you as a parent will have more information about which schools are safe, which schools have a better climate and which schools take this issue seriously. >> how do you and this is a tricky question because i'm sure there are cases of dishonest claims but maybe a small percentage, very small, but how do you protect the innocent on both sides of the cases? is there a way to keep it confidential? >> yes. >> i don't want to get too concerned about that because if it's an actual felony we're talking about, that's the way it works. a person is allowed to charge a person with a felony and that's the way things work in our society. >> the reason there is a dual system so you can have a way to handle the case if the survivor doesn't feel comfortable going through a criminal trial. that could take a year or two or three. it will change her life and time at college so sometimes survey sore just wants a review process to have an opportunity to either have her perpetrator be expelled from school or if there is insufficient evidence and he can't be held responsible to have accommodations. only a school can change her class schedule to make sure she's not sitting next to him in science and have a dorm where she's safe. if you professionalize the process, there is more process for those accused and survivors. you need to have fairness there and we make sure in our bill we have done that. >> you've done great work with the military. is there a difference or the same kind of dangerous condition? >> there is a lot of similarities, both are closed systems where there is no accountability and both systems desperately need to be professionalized. in the military commanders making the decisions, not a trained prosecutor, if that commander isn't knowledgeable or look at evidence the decision might be wrong. that decision needs to be made by a trained military prosecutor with no skin in the game and doesn't know the victim or perpetrator. in the college system, universities that often want to shove this under the rug. it's more valuable to have no reporting or press than to see that justice is done. in both instances, the ensen incentives are wrong. >> how does it look for the bipartisan support for the bill becoming law and bringing this law and order to the campus? >> i'm very optimistic. we got a bipartisan group of senators from the most ideal conservative and i think we'll have a vote and we'll be able to pass the bill. we need to work hard and we need to really amplify the ad va kits. so they are speaking out and eloquent thing their stories fox passion anytime passionally, that's what is making the difference, the bodness and speaking truth to power and these young women are inspiring. they certainly inspired me to action and i think they will be successful in the quest. >> great having you on. a great cause you're fighting there. thanks for coming on. >> thanks chris, thank you. up next we may be looking at a hilary jeb race after year. we got the new nba news polling and while things are looking up for jeb, they are looking better for hilary. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums. i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. 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that's up by 26 points since march where only 49% said they could see themselves voting for him. leading the crowded field with 22% followed by scott walker mark rubio, ben carson mike huckabee and hypothetical matchups hillary clinton leads jub bush and marco rubio by ten and scott walker by 14 although most don't know what scott walker looks like. joining the round table tonight, my guests. let me go to you ann guerin you're out there on the road, big crowd in denver. ed schultz was jumping up and down. those crowds were fun. when people get town and asked by pollsters in a scientific poll they say hilary. >> yeah there is a difference between i think the enthusiasm factor that we're seeing people turning out for bernie because he's interesting, fun. >> is it "the weekend with bernie." [ laughter ] >> it is real and something that hilary can completely discount. when people get down to answering the question could you see yourself voting for her, more than 90% say yes. >> that's the question. i'll go to perry on this because i think i know your answer. you know we're in doubt her bee sting of hilary, she's very effective. i don't know if they can stand reading her, she did make a gutsy decision. but she's also making the joke and it's a tough nasty joke that she's really trying to pretend she's elizabeth warren and a person of the left. is hilary making a mistake being like bernie instead of being her senator-led self. >> that's who she's always been and talked -- >> trade. >> the one issue of trade, i think is what is she for? this whole thing about i need to get more details or understand more, going to hurt her in the primary. she's going to end the primary but she doesn't want to build the idea she won't say what she's for or against. this trade thing went on long enough. we have enough information. >> okay. voting and taking position somebody said to me is a statement of character but not always. in other words, it shows we have guts to do it. is the this an issue to go down on the sword? that's a tough question. if she goes against trump and the gang does she believe in free trade enough to take on that fight? >> the thing is -- >> i mean i think she's made mistakes in the past like the iraq war. >> there are a lot of substantial arguments against it. >> her where is she? >> the question is we don't know what she is. >> historically, she's profree trade. >> you can be profree trade and not like this agreement because of very particular -- >> how do you fix it? >> you can say she doesn't have to be consistent with the profree trade position in the past and be in favor. >> is this going to hurt her politically? >> no. >> i show in the polls nothing is hurting her. >> they are banking clearly on this being over by the time anybody casts a vote. >> the republicans think they have hilary in a achilles hill position with the server at her house. average voters my age sometimes or older don't know what a server is. i guess i can be told. i don't want to think about what a server is. why would anybody vote on the -- think of somebody saying you know, i was for her until this server issue arousalse. >> what is she hiding? there is nothing. >> it doesn't matter. >> she had her e-mails and it doesn't -- i don't know what is in there. we don't know. >> they can be really bad because we don't know. then we just keep banging this drum. it's about getting their voters out and keeping data alive so if something else comes along, they can say see, we told. >> it could be a political business she's hiding. why do you close the door at night? to hide something? no, to close the door. it could be she wants to talk to the governor of nebraska or or senator. how is the kid doing at sanford? that kind of conversation. >> certainly a fair amount of the e-mail she destroyed or had destroyed is probably of that nature. what the republicans are getting at here is that there is a question mark and to the extent they can keep it going, they have something of an issue. i think most of the people listening and for whom that resonates would never consider voting for hillary clinton anyway. >> i think hilary's questions are usually about you and they make them up on who they are and a successful woman and their times and ideology. it's not details. 67% of those surveyed just now said they would be satisfied with jeb and hilary if they were the nominees of the two parties. 4% of voters were concerned about political dynasties. i was among the lowest of the top concerns for those being polled. isn't that interesting? people always said i don't like negative campaigning and yet it's the negative ad they remember. they don't like big money in politics it's the big money that pays for the ads. >> they don't necessarily vote for candidates that rail against big-money politics. when a poster asks you something and you have an answer you think you should give as opposed to how things favor. >> and you don't know if you're a better person to say. >> no one likes negative adds but they work. >> what about on the dynasty question, i think this poll is not showing us enough. if you're a democrat what are your choices. if hillary clinton is running against michelle obama and elizabeth warn that might change the response. jeb bush right now is running and people only know who marco rubio and scott walker are. people i talk to say really in a america bush and clinton again? people are more concerned about particular he republicans because they don't like jeb bush very much. >> for a reason, not because he's a bush. >> he's a moderate. >> i like the fact one of the number one things they say about bush is he's a liberal. they don't mean that with love. up next, more on the potential pitfall for hillary clinton, trade. this is "hardball" a place for politics. thank you. no, nancy, thank you. kibbles 'n bits. because every bit matters. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. when cigarette cravings hit, all i can think about is getting relief. only nicorette mini has a patented fast-dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. i never know when i'll need relief. that's why i only choose nicorette mini. ♪ kraft barbecue sauce's new recipe starts with simple ingredients like sweet molasses. and now with cane sugar. all slow-simmered. so go ahead, make wings, ribs...amazing. pope francis is ranking conservatives and this time taking on guns. he says people who manageufacture guns and weapons are hypocrites. that's the pope talking. he said that global warm sging is real and action needs to be made. he's making the rounds the holy father. he'll be right back. i have type 2 diabetes. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active. but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes after i eat and get to goal. my doctor added novolog® at mealtime for additional control. now i know. novolog® is a fast-acting, injectable insulin and it works together with my long-acting insulin. proven effective. the mealtime insulin doctors prescribe most. available in flexpen®. vo: novolog® is used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes. take novolog® as directed. eat a meal within 5 to 10 minutes after injection. check your blood sugar levels. do not take novolog® if your blood sugar is too low or you're allergic to any of its ingredients. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medicines you take. ask your 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absolutely. that's the pope saying we shouldn't be making them is stronger than any american politician is ever going to say. but it's really interesting. you had obama and then you had clinton a couple days later both making pretty strong statements in favor of more gun control than we currently have. hillary saying the president doesn't get enough credit for what he's trying to do. she didn't say how she would get past the impasse that he's had in congress. there's just -- it's -- the issue has been dead in the water. >> checking out -- they always say -- i understand guns don't kill people people kill people with guns. but there is an argument to be made, people not guns, let's check out the people buying guns. that would be a reasonable thing to go to and say, no you can't be insane, you can't be a murderer, i'm going to kill my wife and have a gun. there has to be some rules. >> the republican party wants a waiting period for any woman who wants an abortion yet they hate waiting periods for guns and think try to fight those things. they try to oh we. >> who needs a gun that fast? >> that's the question. who needs a gun that fast? they always come up with arguments. someone who is in danger you know it's the good guy or good gal with a gun myth. what the pope said was really very interesting. he wasn't talking about gun control, he was talking about a gun as an act of violence. >> how many guns do we have in this country right now? >> 700 million. >> more guns than people. like new zealanders and sheep. >> one thing to take on hillary clinton or barack obama. >> the way jeb did other day. >> dismiss him completely. >> he's out of his lane. >> yeah, well, the core challenge is hillary's and obama's ideas are not enough. we have 300 million guns. gun buyback program or something that's bigger. it's not totally clear that background checks can stop you if your gun isn't given to you by a family member or friend. guns are not always just sold. there are other ways to get guns. the solution has to be bigger than what they're talking about now. i don't think proposal as all as far as i can tell. if she comes out with a strong proposal during the campaign i would be surprised. >> how about a supreme court with common sense? how about a supreme court that says, you know you can't have guns for all occasions. the right to bear arms is related to the right to militia. we're going back to the way it was written. as written, you know? literal interpretation. they seem to ignore that militia thing. >> bill clinton tried when he was president to ban a certain type of gun. you know, the oh we. >> worked for a while. >> there were a lot of loopholes in it me passed that bill. he passed that bill. >> there's one reason why they lost to congress. >> the ways of dealing with ammunition. >> lost to congress. >> there are things you can do that won't solve the problem but mar gyps at least and you come up. >> lost congress in health care too. if they really care about the gun issue they may push it beyond -- >> i'm not sure she'll ever get this. when you walk into the voting booth come november and you have to make that big decision, you probably made it weeks before but the gun owner is thinking about his gun as he goes in to volt. the person who believes in gun control is thinking about unemployment rate racial right, women's rights, other things that are on their mind before they get to gun. >> enthusiasm you know is in the favor of a very small minority of people but who care about it so much that it scares the politicians. i mean you're right. they are so passionate. if you are for gun rights it is not your top issue. it's number one, two, and three. >> great question. why did hillary clinton sort of dodge the trade issue? which i understand because of the unions who are democrat and support the democrats and yet not dodge the gun issue? what are the politics? those are hotter issue. >> until she comes up with a gun control plan i don't know that she's embraced the gun issue. i don't know what her plan is. she was more forthright because most of the democratic party is for gun control. most of the democratic party is not for -- >> two-thirds of the republican party is gun owners. she's not running for the republican nomination. >> precisely. >> and not getting those votes anyway. >> i like how you finish my sentence. thank you, david. when we return let me finish tonight with my 3-year stroke of luck. that's what i'm calling it. you're watching "hard ball," a place for politics. where you also find her. ♪ a romantic fumble at this romantic chateau ... leads to these fine humans. who you take to this eco-lodge ... to get seriously close to nature. then you check in with her at this tropical paradise. before soaring over this castle resort with your father-in-law. who finally seems to like you. life can be like that when you get it booking right. booking.com booking.yeah! if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid 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work. let me finish tonight with my family celebration. yesterday june 21st was the first day of summer. it was father's day. it was also our 35th wedding anniversary. 35. of all the breaks in my life and there have been a number meeting and finding a way to kathleen cunningham's heart was at the top because she is the top. when we met i was working in the back room of the white house running for someone else. kathy was writing for channel 7. here also was someone else. she was also work for someone else. i was a back room guy in politics. she was a news producer. when i tell people what i learned about marriage these years is about the common values. if you get them sticking together is easy. we agree on religion on children being important, on family being important, on trying to be nice. my great break in life is meeting someone like that spending my life with someone like that. kathy is my ambassador to people. living on my own, i don't think i would be living in such a large world. as i said, it was our 35st wedding anniversary yesterday. in my luck holds i will keep on doing what i'm doing here. michael, thomas caroline sarah, julia, and brandon are, of course our joy. and that's "hard ball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> that's not the measure of whether racism still exist or not. >> president obama goes into the garage and sets the news media into a tizzy. >> the president of the united states using the" n" word. >> tonight, mark maron on his unguarded conversation with the president about race. >> racism we are not cured of. >> listening to naysayers. >> i ran the country from my couch for a couple years. >> a lot of people do. yeah. i hear from them all the time. >> and governing without fear. >> it's sort of like an athlete. you might slow down a little bit, you might not jump as high as you used to. >> right. >> but i know what i'm doing and i'm
the officer tailing an elderly woman on her dangerous journey. >> just don't tip it. >> i'm not going to tip it. >> how this faceoff comes to an end. and good evening. thanks for joining us on this saturday. i'm tom llamas. a lot of news to get to tonight. first up, that assault on dallas police headquarters, turning an intersection into a combat zone. a neighbor hearing gun fire and shooting this cell phone video out the window. the alleged gunman, you can see him there, driving that heavily armored vehicle, turning a and slamming into a police car. a chase following. hours later, that vehicle, you see it there, ending up in flames. the gunman, the only one to die. and now, the fbi joining the investigation into the shootout. tonight, what drove this man to attack? abc's ryan owens in dallas tonight. >> reporter: an all-out assault on a major american police department. so many shots, cops first thought there might be four gunmen. it turns out to be a lone suspect, firing at police from an armored van. just look at all the shattered glass in the lobby of dallas police headquarters. and this bullet-riddled cruiser. somehow, the officer inside wasn't hit. >> we believe this suspect meant to kill officers. >> reporter: but police say the only one james bouldware harmed was himself. he started shooting at headquarters at 12:30 saturday morning. he then led police on a brief chase before stopping at this jack in the box restaurant, less than 20 miles away. for hours, the standoff drags on. 4:30 in the morning, a bomb robot picks up a suspicious package. there are pipe bombs inside. 30 minutes later, a sniper shoots out the engine block of the van, making sure it's not going anywhere. seven minutes later, snipers fire through the windshield, killing the suspect. it took several more hours for the bomb squad to blow up the van. the suspect had bragged he rigged it with explosives. police won't say what the gunman's motive was, but his father tells abc news, the 35-year-old was furious at police after he recently lost custody of his young son. >> was he a perfect person? no. none of us are. but did he deserve to lose his son? >> reporter: investigators believe his rage reached a boiling point less than a week ago, when bouldware allegedly bought that van, complete with gun slots, advertised online as a zombie apocalypse assault vehicle. tonight, we're also hearing from the gunman's mother. she says she's just thankful her son didn't kill any police officers, and in her words, this certainly looks like a very elaborate suicide by cop. tom? >> amazing he may have bought that armored assault vehicle on ebay. ryan, thank you. next, to that major development in the prison breakout. one week after those two convicted killers escaped a new york prison, joyce tilley mitchell now under arrest. the prison worker accused of smuggling in tools to help them. this saturday, police back in those thick woods, no day off from this urgent manhunt. hundreds of officers, but tonight, still no sign of them. here's abc's phillip mena. >> reporter: for the first time since her arrest, prison worker joyce mitchell appearing in a new york courtroom. prosecutors allege the married mom smuggled hacksaw blades, chisels, a punch and a screwdriver bit into the maximum security prison. court documents revealing investigators believe mitchell provided the tools to david sweat and richard matt on may 1st, a full five weeks before the unprecedented escape. >> obviously, she was befriended or she befriended the inmates and may have had some sort of role in assisting them. >> reporter: a year ago, prison officials investigated a relationship between david sweat and mitchell. but nothing came of it. mitchell could face up to eight years in prison and possibly more, depending on the outcome of the manhunt. >> if i were joyce mitchell, i'd be extremely worried about how much time i could potentially get out of this. judges hold a dim view over public servants who commit these type of acts. >> make sure you look to your right. >> reporter: more than 800 officers are spending their second weekend searching these dense woods. here at this canadian border crossing, cars are normally only checked leaving canada. but with those killers on the loose, officers tell us they're now checking cars leaving the u.s. parents close to the prison tonight expressing their fear and frustration about mitchell. >> with her having kids and grandkids and just -- being a mom or just being a person in this community, i don't understand how she could help two murderers escape. >> reporter: tonight, we've learned joyce mitchell has been moved to a jail near albany, to avoid distraction during the manhunt. tom? >> phillip mena for us in upstate new york. phillip, thank you. tonight, we're hearing from the parents of that naacp leader at the center of an uproar about race. rachel dolezal, here she is in an naacp photo, and here she is in a childhood photo her parents made public claiming she is falsely portraying herself as black. abc's kendis gibson with the story tonight. >> reporter: tonight, the parents of rachel dolezal, the embattled president of spokane's naacp, speaking out about her race and credibility. dolezal's white biological parents claiming their daughter has been lying for years about her ethnicity. >> the deception part of it, her saying, i am an african-american woman, or, i am black, or, i have a black father, those are the things that became very alarming, because there was no basis in reality or truth. >> reporter: dolezal's parents say she was born in montana of czech and german decent. claiming, in 2007, her appearance started changing from this to a more ethnic look today. dolezal herself identifying her race as black on an official volunteer job application. a graduate of historically black howard university, this photo on the naacp facebook page of a black man she called her dad. >> i do consider myself to be black. and that's because that's how i identify. >> reporter: tonight, the previous president of the spokane naacp is speaking out, telling me, he was shocked to learn about her race. did you know she was white? >> no. >> reporter: you had no idea? >> no. >> reporter: tonight, the national and local naacp are supporting their chapter president. they plan a meeting here at headquarters monday evening and this will no doubt be topic number one. tom? >> as expected, lots of questions. okay, kendis, thank you. late news from cleveland tonight. the county prosecutor releasing details of the police investigation into the death of tamir rice. he's the 12-year-old playing with a realistic-looking pellet gun, you see it there. he was shot by a police officer in a city park. this surveillance video capturing that moment. tonight, what police investigators found. abc's ron claiborne with the details. >> reporter: the sheriff's report describes the dramatic moments leading up to the cleveland police officer fatally shooting tamir rice last november. several witnesses, including police officers and an fbi agent who arrived at the scene just after the shooting, told investigators officer timothy loehmann, who fired the shots, said he had warned tamir, but the boy went for a weapon. then, he shot him. "he gave me no choice," one witness, an offduty police officer, said loehmann told him. "he reached for the gun and there was nothing i could do." but the report said according to witness interviews, it is unclear whether officer loehmann issued commands from inside the patrol car before discharging his weapon. the video shows loehmann firing at the boy within two seconds of getting out of the patrol car. tamir lay on the ground for three to four minutes before the fbi agent began to help him. it turned out tamir had a non-lethal pellet gun. investigators said the boy who had given it to him had cautioned him to be careful because it looked like a real gun. loehmann and his partner frank garmback declined to be interviewed by investigators. and this report comes just two days after a judge ruled there was enough evidence to charge officer loehmann with murder, and his partner with negligent homicide. that was only an advisory ruling, not binding on prosecutors. the prosecutor's office says it will take the case now to a grand jury in a matter of weeks which, tom will then decide whether to file criminal charges against those police officers. >> we'll be watching those developments. okay, ron, thank you. and unsettled start to the weekend for the center of the country. and a cleanup from texas to the northeast after damaging winds. downed trees and power lines in eastern new york knocking out power to more than 1,000 customers. texas getting more heavy rain driving rough on flooded roads. tomorrow a new round of severe weather. the forecast in a moment, but first, here's abc's senior meteorologist rob marciano. >> reporter: upstate new york hit hard again by damaging winds. this structure overturned. in virginia, this tree taking a direct hit. >> i'm a trained weather spotter and i came outside to find this tree struck by lightning. >> reporter: that bolt peeling the bark right off. sparking power lines in pennsylvania. in worth township, one man was killed by a falling tree on friday. and in mississippi, this boat with four people on board capsizing as a thunderstorm moved right through biloxi. >> we swam to the rocks and all these workers helped us get over the rocks. >> reporter: fortunately, they were just feet from the nearby port. hail as big as baseballs pounding areas near lubbock, texas, overnight. >> that's about 30 minutes of rain. >> reporter: and look at this flash flooding in southern california. following a rare june rain. >> and rob joins us in the studio now. rob, another batch of storms you're looking at? >> reporter: yeah, it's a big area again tonight, tom. look at the radar. it's really filling in from the carolinas and virginia. gulf of mexico moisture rolling into texas and new mexico. severe thunderstorm watch there. big hail and some big winds. also severe threat tomorrow into more populated areas. chicago, detroit, cleveland through d.c. this is really a two-day event. we'll be watching carefully for strong storms there tomorrow. and then a lot of rain in through parts of the plains including areas that don't really need it. so, houston could get another two to three inches over the next two days. >> and i know you guys are also tracking a her khanurricane another one off the coast of mexico? >> reporter: yeah, hurricane carlos. just off the west coast of mexico. there it is on the satellite picture. we are watching this disturbance that's closer to cancun getting into the gulf of mexico. national hurricane center thinks that will develop into something, probably not a hurricane. it will bring some wind and likely more rain into houston, and they don't need more. tom? >> all right, we'll keep our eye on the gulf. rob, thank you. hillary clinton is off to iowa tonight after her first big campaign rally here in new york city. it seems she's been running for a very long time, but now, a kind of reset. abc's cecilia vega with hillary clinton, act two. >> reporter: hillary clinton, center stage. >> i'm not running for some americans, but for all americans. >> reporter: husband bill, daughter chelsea, right there, too, for this first rally since announcing her second bid for the white house. one of america's most well-known politicians hoping to reintroduce herself to voters. even getting personal about her late mother, who was abandoned as a child. >> my mother taught me that everybody needs a chance and champion. by 14, she was out on her own working as a house maid. >> reporter: charging after republicans on climate change and gay rights. >> we should ban discrimination against lgbt americans and their families. >> reporter: the competition firing back. on the right, former florida governor jeb bush, expected to announce his bid on monday, releasing this ad -- >> great to be back in iowa. >> reporter: during clinton's speech. on the left, vermont senator bernie sanders, drawing large crowds of his own. >> i voted against the usa patriot act. secretary clinton voted on the other side. >> reporter: but today, clinton supporters rallying. >> i'm here because of my daughter. >> reporter: excited, and for some, resigned. >> i like her. i think she'll make a good leader. and i think that there's also no one else. >> reporter: clinton today did not address so many of those controversies hanging over her campaign, but she did say she has made her fair share of mistakes. she now takes this message on the road to iowa. tom? >> cecilia vega on the campaign trail for us tonight. cecilia, thank you. a frightening landing for passengers on an allegiant air flight to boy see boise, idaho. the smell of fuel and what looked like smoke drove them scrambling out the emergency exits and onto the wing. the odor so strong, witnesses said they could smell it in the terminal. abc's aditi roy with what those passengers feared. >> reporter: a dramatic passenger-led evacuation on the wing of this allegiant airlines aircraft, after some on board noticed what they thought was smoke outside the plane friday night. jacquelyn jones was one of the passengers waiting in the terminal to board that plane. what could you see and smell? >> i could smell some sort of fumes or jet fuel as it was burning my throat and nose. >> reporter: a boise airport spokesman says the vapor was from fuel which had spilled from an auxiliary engine. and there was no fire of or emergency. in a statement, allegiant airlines says, at no time where the passengers or crew members on board the plane in danger. and that passengers initiated an evacuation over wing doors. >> if you've got people opening up emergency exits and spilling off the back of the wing and you didn't order it, that's a very dangerous situation. >> reporter: just days before, another allegiant plane made an emergency landing and passengers were evacuated onto the airfield at the st. petersburg/clearwater airport, after the crew reported smoke in the cabin. four people reported injuries. aditi roy, abc news, los angeles. and we have much more tonight on "world news tonight." and up next, danger ahead. one of america's hottest summertime thrill rides, ziplining, takes a deadly turn at a summer camp in north carolina. tonight, what you need to know before you take that leap of faith. and, taking an accidental leap off the stage. after a surprise tumble at a concert in sweden, how foo fighters frontman dave grohl saved the day. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? 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one industry body estimates of the millions of zipline rides we take every year, less than 1% result in accidents. but there is no federal oversight, leaving the industry to self-regulate. >> you're going to step over this yellow bar right here. >> reporter: at palisades climb adventure, staff say they inspect the equipment daily. what's your number one tip for zipliners? >> okay. that's easy. my number one tip for zipliners touch the equipment. put all your weight in the equipment. >> reporter: all of my weight. >> all your weight in the equipment. there you go. make sure. >> reporter: feels pretty secure. >> right. >> reporter: the question now is whether trusting your gut is enough to make you feel safe. linzie janis, abc news, west nyack, new york. >> and we thank linzie for that report. still ahead on "world news tonight," a royal debut. how britain's youngest prince stole the show at his great-grandmother's official birthday celebration. stay with us. rica, people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. and the needle is thin. victoza is not for weight loss but it may help you lose some weight. victoza is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. it is not recommended as the first medication to treat diabetes and should not be used in people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. victoza has not been studied with mealtime insulin. victoza is not insulin. do not take victoza if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza or any of its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction may include swelling of face lips, tongue or throat fainting or dizziness, very rapid heartbeat problems breathing or swallowing, severe rash or itching. tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. serious side effects may happen in people who take victoza including inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis) which may be fatal. stop taking victoza and call your doctor right away if you have signs of pancreatitis, such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. taking victoza with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need... ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza. it's covered by most health plans. straight to the index. now starting with a royal debut across the pond. great britain today celebrated queen elizabeth's official birthday. 89 years young. but it was this youngster who really stole the show. prince george, just shy of his second birthday, giving his first official buckingham palace balcony wave. in the arms of prince william there. but look closely. he's wearing the same blue jumper his dad wore 31 years ago. very cool. next, giving new meaning to breaking a leg. at a concert last night in sweden, foo fighters frontman dave grohl took a nasty tumble off the stage, suffering at least one fracture. but grohl barely missed a beat. >> right now, i'm going to go the hospital. i'm going to fix my leg. but then i'm going to come back. and we're going to play for you again! >> and he did. grohl got patched up with a cast and returned to the stage to finish the show. the foo fighters, though, have, however, canceled at least two concerts. all right, back here at home two strikes against one driver pulled over for speeding outside seattle, after police spotted this in the passenger seat. no, that's not a person. and luckily, it's not a corpse, either. the driver, trying to get away with driving alone in the h.o.v. lane, dolled up this mannequin, complete with makeup, lipstick and sunglasses. state trooper mark francis tweeted, "i'm officially creeped out. at least it's a seahawks fan." all right, and when we come back, the low speed chase caught on camera. what happened after state troopers pulled this senior citizen over? 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at only six miles an hour? abc's gloria riviera with the renegade senior citizen. burning rubber with her scooter. >> can you pull over into that little opening right there for me? >> reporter: it took one very patient washington state trooper and one silver-haired speedster, zipping sweetly along at 6 miles per hour -- >> there's no license plate. >> reporter: -- to turn an unusual highway confrontation endearingly sweet. officer dave hintz was responding to concerned calls regarding a rogue driver. >> i don't want you to get hurt out here. that's my job. >> reporter: this grandmother lost on her way home. >> you're four miles this way. >> reporter: officer hintz offering her a careful police escort, roadside assistance and reassurance. >> just don't tip it. >> i'm not going to tip it. >> reporter: the grandmother insisting to the end there was no need for fuss. >> if you had let me go, i would have gotten home. >> well, no, you were going the wrong way! >> well, even then, i would have found it. >> reporter: officer hintz said he was just doing the right thing. >> i just treated her the way i would have wanted someone to treat my mom. >> reporter: and instead of a ticket, his advice? no more driving on route 56. >> okay, no more out on the state route! >> reporter: gloria riviera, abc news, washington. >> cecilia vega's back here next saturday. i'll see you back here tomorrow night. have a great evening. next at 6:00 a rollercoaster collision sends to people to the hospital. why firefighters had to return to a fire that damaged structures in including a home earlier today. and hot summer-like day for much of the bay area. will there be relief? abc7 news at 6:00 starts now. good evening. i'm katie marzullo. we start with breaking news in san francisco, major street is closed after a crash in soma. >> reporter: we arrived just about ten minutes ago and officers on scene tell me this injury collision happened around 5:30. you're looking down bryant and the suv that is now in the side of cafe roma has been struck by a black acura, is what officers on scene say. that acura wilts told officers it was speeding some 100 miles-per-hour down the street and then collided with two other vehicles. and so this is a really fresh scene. officers have the intersection blocked off along bryant. they're directing traffic around, and at this point we have been told there are injuries. however we don't know how many people are involved. so katie i'll check with sfpd. they're on scene investigating and hopefully have more details for you soon. here live, abc7 news. >> a grass fire that damaged a home in vallejo today has flared up again. flames broke out at 11:00 this morning on creek view drive. sergio quintana is live with more. >> reporter: this is turning out to be a stubborn grass fire
involve hiring a staff of people to do the work and they say that the big banks can do that better. we hope that congress would look at that. there are a number of other things in the regulatory area that are bad. if they carry it further, it will make it dangerous for community banks to get any in the game. if congress will look at what the real needs are in the banking sector and and perhaps make it a lot easier for community banks, we certainly would like to see them thrive. it is not, from what i hear, that they are too big to fail. they are too small to compete with regulators. >> take a look at the material -- the gentleman who asked the question -- it begins on page 53 or so of the report or its bills of the scale and the hope that this could reach very deeply into institutions. barry, you had a thought on this question? barry is with the commission and, it is with the consumer federation. >> i wanted to make the point that this issue of access and affordability credit is a strong theme in the report. it runs to both the ability of consumers of all types and all places to have a fair and affordable access to credit through this system we are recommending. that is the whole point. and also for lenders not to be discriminated against. this is one of the roles that we envision a public guarantor will have to take on it, to make sure the system they are overseeing does not come to discriminatory outcomes, but keep some members of of the game. i do not think any of us would claim to have everything worked out, but we made the strong statement the system will not be successful without that and come. >> we have about 10 minutes of questions we could take. i would like to see if nan roma can put her thoughts together. in the question and answers section, we focus on the housing finance and also the demographics, which are two of the major, major problems of this report. but another part deals with the retargeting to the most needy. and barry and janet and others have played a major role in assuring that the neediest get the help that they can. this gentleman has had his hand up for a long time. then we will come back to you if we can. >> thank you, henry. mark willis, univ. of new york center for realistic policy. with a lot about homeownership. we talked about government programs. as all the commissioners, i'm sure, no, the majority of rental properties are in small rental buildings, not government subsidize any way. i wonder to what affects -- we can prefer -- we can preserve this part of our rental stock? >> would you like to take the lead in talking about the provisions that you led us to include? >> mark, thank you for the question. this is an area we address in the report. although i do not think we have any magic solutions. we may be very clear point that this sector of the rental economy is not well served by fixed-rate finance. it has not been well served by the gse's. >> the gentleman on television would like you to -- >> i thought i was answering your question. i guess not. [laughter] >> we do make the point that this sector of the rental economy of smaller properties, including single-family properties, is a critical source of housing. this is one of the major links of the house and finance section of the report and the rental section of the report. the focus is on the market value that makes it so hard for low- income tenants to afford the cost of these properties and the problems of higher cost that the owners of those properties confront at the margin because they cannot get access to the most affordable mortgage products. as henry said, we have to be prioritized and expand what the government invest in the rental and the structure of the country by helping support market demand by these renters as one of the two most fundamental linkages of this report. >> ok. since we're in the general subject area of rental recommendations -- and if any other commission groups, janet, and whoever else, would like to say a word about this. >> the commission was very concerned about meeting the needs of the lowest income renters. i think that was reinforced last week when hud came out with this number that showed 20% worst case housing needs. recommendation really is to meet needs of the most abominable people, people under 30%, a very median income, elderly people, disabled people, homeless people. to prioritize meeting that need, it does involve expanding a variety of suggestions of how that would be financed in a constrained -- up. unconstrained it spending. i think the commission, all of us had a will to make -- to meet those needs when we were building them under people who were vulnerable and to make sure they can continue to contribute to society. >> thank you. can you speak to this? >> i certainly would. nan has been at a champion for aid to the homeless and assisting the homeless for a long time, and one thing she has pointed out that we records in the report is the necessity to have social services provided with the housing. it is not enough to provide a shelter. a large number of the homeless require services, whether it is job counseling, education, babysitting. that is a critical elements. the commission report has sprinkled throughout the need to bring services to housing. i've been just add one thing to the professor's comments on rural housing. too often the federal government -- which you can take a look at housing -- 50 units are more. in our rural area, units and one for 49 are a lot fewer. -- one through 49 are a lot fewer. this is an area where state and local decisions can help make sure that housing needs of the people in the smaller communities, where a four-unit apartment house would be a big one, are adequately met. that there are community banks unwilling to reach out and make the loans. state line lihtc's in target resources to construct or rehab homes for the needs in smaller areas. >> bruce would like to say a word. he is a former congressman from connecticut. >> thank you, henry. i do not want to say anything different from what my colleagues have said. just to emphasize that the rental restrictions are by no means limited to the homeless. they are not just about people who do not work, but a large part of our population who work full-time and earn very little. 30% of median income, which is close to the poverty line, represents the coverage of people who are very poor, but trying very hard. the targeting we are talking about is focusing our assistance on ending the lottery that we currently have for we promise we will help people up to 80% of median and we deliver one in four. that is really not an acceptable way to run a government program. we have tough choices. these are very tough choices. at least we can deliver what we promised. that is targeting 30%, a very median. and helping most people secure private housing. this is a system that is not government-owned housing, but private housing. that is where most of the housing is and we need to make it more affordable. >> will take someone from this side, and i promised the lady over here. >> yes, ma'am? >> [indiscernible] >> i represent retired professionals and those in remain passionate about has in. when i started my career in 1960's, fannie mae and freddie mac were created to incentivize private lenders to lend to people who normally would not be eligible for finance -- housing finance. now that you are recommending that the private sector banks take on greater risk, they are not even fixing the problem that exists today, trying to help homeowners refinance mortgages. how's that going to work? i just do not get it. >> i think we are focusing on the elements that are keeping banks from being able to help today. the credit environment that helps today. we have suggested stabilizing the regimen of rules that banks work within so they can get back to lyndon. and then it of balding -- involving the banks in a way that has been stated repeatedly here, the government guarantor stands as of last guarantor, but an integrated system, a balanced system in which the rules are well established and it should allow for liquidity in the credit market. that is the belief we operate from. >> we believe without a government guarantor on the back end, liquidity will not be what it ought to be. it takes a secure sizing market to bring that about. however, it does not take of government-sponsored enterprise to achieve the goal we are talking about. i can recall, fannie mae was not meeting their low income housing goals. their lending to a whole different spectrum of people. for them to be lending -- what, $200,000, something in that neighborhood? that is not near the poverty level. but here is something else. it is not just about what we are discussing your to do. the qm rule just cannot, and the qm rule by itself will create an environment where it is difficult for the financial institutions to be lending outside the safe harbor people and you think about that, is qm going to broaden the pool of people that become part of the mortgage or constrain it? i'm not sure which way it is going to work. i think qm will play a significant role in banks and how they react. 20% down payment, fica scores in the 500's. these are things at some point that have to become more competitive. so, consider that in the light of qm, and not in the complexity of the current system. >> if you have a point, and i think barry does as well. >> one of the points you hit on throughout the meeting is the uncertainty in the marketplace. qm resolve some of that. i think the message from the commission is let's move this thing forward and get some of this was also the uncertainty is not there with the financial institution. from the guy on the street, part of the reason they're not in the game right now is they are not aware of the risk. what they are doing is trying to define a process to define those risks, so the government backing will allow people to get into the marketplace. it will understand how to price it and know the risks. i hope that will secure some of that. which like to say a word? >> i will be quick. for those who were not deep policy wonks, this qm rule is really about the direction that lenders should only make loans if they have a reasonable expectation it will be repaid. debts are meant to be repaid, and that is coupled with an admonition that lenders should lend responsibly for sustainable purposes. those two together have led to this qualified mortgage rule. why would anyone become a credit risk taker in this new environment at a price that would be affordable? all i can say is, the commission worried about this. we consulted with a lot of people in the field. we believe going forward, some of the issues began to fade. this is an effort regarding credit risk. it probably means that consumers will pay more than they paid in the past, but that is the price for a stable and sustainable system. we will have to wait and see how much more. we believe based on what work we did that it will not be too much. >> of the. final question over here. -- ok. final question over here. sheila? i did not recognize you, but i'm glad i call the new. sheila crowley heads the -- >> housing coalition. i want to commend the commission for its focus on the housing problems of extremely low-income renters, which get worse and worse every year. i appreciate the emphasis on trying to get assistance to all those folks. i wonder if you could operation alize that for us a little bit? how exactly might that happen? and in the report, we have heard that getting to do that would take some time. could you tell us what you think that period of time might be? " there are a couple key pages i would refer to you -- >> there are a couple key pages i would refer you to in the report. 1 is page 1 of 5. at the first step in operational lies in -- operationalizing is finding the cost that is recommended. that is an important part of the report. is a major theme in the commission for all work, that we were not going to put out numbers without indicating how it would be paid for. this is in the context of fiscal responsibility as we recognize it today. the first step is to identify what are the costs associated with increasing the low-income tax credit, rental assistance, gap financing for low-income tax credit, etc. the second page i would refer you to is page 1 of 7 that looks at the current distribution of federal support -- page 107 that looks at the current distribution of federal support and rental and appropriations of owners and rental. and again the report concern intends to think about how this might occur. after that operationalizing means specific changes in specific programs. changing the regulatory structure for public housing. focusing on this notion of outcome-based criteria and providers, competitive structures or providers to be as efficient as possible, etc. at least beginning of -- we are setting up the path to operationalizing. are there any co-chairs or commission members who would like to add to this? yes? renee? >> i was just going to add but clearly this is important, and the ability -- i'm sorry. i am not ignoring you, sheila. i am saying this is an important issue. the point that we talked about in terms of the performance- based system and having greater flexibility at the local levels to solve problems, because there is a correlation between cost and regulatory structure. i think there is a lot of the current momentum about getting the resources closer to the needs, and i think operationalizing it will really ought be about adopting those core principles, and i think the report is very strong on the outcome,de-concentrating poverty, better housing, better locations, so families can have a home ownership. >> thank you. any other commissioners wish to add a word? we have called on most. is there anyone else who would like to say something? yes, sir. >> [indiscernible] >> yes. absolutely. nick, who is now a professor at the harvard business school, former fha director in the clinton years, was certainly one of the most voluble players in the commission. i also want to point out senator alfonzo jackson. please stand and be recognized. [applause] i want to turn the podium back over to senator george mitchell. >> years ago, when bob dole, howard baker, tom daschle, and i gathered to establish the bipartisan by -- bipartisan policy center, we were dismayed to the extent to which our political process appeared to be in gridlock as a consequence of excessive partisanship and ideological posturing. that concern is heightened today. i frequently cite the example of the presidential campaign of 1800 when jefferson supporters called president adams a hermaphrodite, lacking, they said, the strength of a man or the gentleness of a woman. supporters said that its jefferson were elected, robbery, rape, and murder would be openly taught and practiced in our country. it was rough and tough when we were there, but it has gotten proper and tupper today. we at the bipartisan policy center believe it is possible that men and women with strongly held different political philosophies can come together in good faith to try and deal in a responsible way through principled compromise with the major problems facing our nation. one of our objectives is simply to demonstrate to the american people, to political officials of the country that it can be done. there are 21 members of this commission. if each of the 21 had offered his or her own report, it is almost a certainty that no two would have been alike and no one of them would have been identical to the report the commission eventually agreed upon. we do not present this as a piece of legislation. that will require action by congress and the administration. we presented as a set of ideas and principles which we feel give it content, recognizing any major decisions will have to be made through the legislative and political process. but we do presented as an example of what can be done in our country, and what our country now desperately needs. it is an approach that says you do not have to leave your principles outside the door to come inside and make a reasonable compromise that is best for the country. we can be strong partisans, and yet we are all americans. we all want to do what is best for the country. thank you but for coming and we look forward to working with you in the future. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> with the $85 billion budget cuts called sequestration going to affect this coming friday, " washington journal" is talking with reporters about what will be cut. this morning, marcus weisgerber, about what will be cut. >> so, marcus weisgerber, what has happened over at defense? guest: everything will happend march 27 willuty is taking preparations for the $26 billion cuts between the end of march in the end of the fiscal year in december. host: or will the cuts come from? guest: everywhere, but not military personnel. host: break this down. guest: the procurement account and the research and development accounts, which are pretty hefty, they will be hit by the 10% cuts, but in reality, it will probably get hit a bit more, because the personal accounts will not be good, and the other thing is we are halfway through a year and they have not made any cuts to date. they have to make up for that. host: much of the cuts will be from the civilian part, especially in this part of the country. guest: there are 800,000 of them and they are all facing a 22-day furlough. that is about a day per week for the remainder of the fiscal year. host: what about the appointment around the world? guest: deployment will not be affected. soldiers in all wars and, primarily afghanistan, they will continue to be subject -- they will be continue to be fully funded. they will be subject to sequestration. but congress will have to take money from other places such as research and development and hardware and shipped that into the operational accounts of those folks out what they need. host: more figures from the associated press as far as the defense cuts, sequestration. a few examples. less air force flying hours, a cut in naval forces. at $3 billion cut in the military's health care system. the pentagon could be restructuring contracts. what do you want to say about those areas? guest: training is of cuts where only units preparing to deploy or other places -- these are the ones that will be training. everyone else, primarily in the air force and the navy, their planes will be grounded because it will not have the money they would use to do the training. it will be shifted into the war accounts to pay for afghanistan. stuff like tricare, i believe you mentioned, that is more like the benefits for care and being seen by doctors and whatnot. >> there are lots of voices in washington. what should we know about the defensive area? guest: there are two sides. there is the side that says we need to cut federal spending and the defense needs to take a roll. a lot of them would agree with that. the problem is, we're halfway done with the year and they have not been preparing for this. they will up to squeeze this into a six-month period. if it is fully implemented, it will have an impact. 2014, if it continues, and they get hit with another $50 billion cut, it will probably be more manageable, because they will be able to choose where they want to make the cuts. >> we understand the senate may come up with a couple sequester proposals this week. in the meantime, congress does return from its weeklong recess. the house is dabbling in at 2:00 p.m. eastern. we will of live coverage here on c-span. the senate dabbles in at 2:00 eastern. it will start with the -- gavels in at 2:00 p.m. eastern. you can see live coverage of the senate on our companion network c-span2. the arms control association speaks today with colonel thomas pickering about iran's nuclear program and possible solutions. >> at age 25, she was one of the wealthiest widows in the colonies and during the revolution, she was considered an enemy by the british, to threaten to take her hostage. later she would become our country's first lady at the age of 57. meet martha washington as part of our new series "first ladies -- influenced and image." we will visit places that influenced her life, including mount vernon, valley forge, and philadelphia. live tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span, c-span radio, and c- span.org. >> state governors from across the country are meeting in washington for their annual conference. this morning, "washington journal talked with" minnesota governor rick snyder. this conversation is about half an hour. >host: on your screen, governor rick snyder. governor of michigan. of course, a participant in the nga meeting. guest: good morning. >> what is your take away from a week of meetings in washington? guest: your show is covering the big issue, what is going to happen at the federal level. that is a real concern. host: what are you anticipating? the white house is anticipating a drop in may for eight states. what are you looking at? guest: this issue of the sequester is a failure. when you look at the states, and that governor's meeting yesterday, as i looked around the room, probably most of us in the room had not had to do with budget cuts in two or 3 years. we got the job done. why can it not be done in washington? host: what can it not be done in a more effective way? guest: one of the things that i ate look at as a governor, we do need -- i looked at as a governor is when you need to get things done in a more effective way. need to cut the deficit. we need to have a better situation across the board for our citizens, our customers. we have to get away -- we have to get away from a number of the prescriptive programs. i'm not seem to block grants. wets do outcome-based programs. let's sit down and agree on five different programs based on outcomes and get rid of the old programs. that would reduce costs substantially. host: our guest will be with us for about 25 more minutes. he is the governor of michigan. he is a republican. we have a fourth phone line for folks in michigan. that number is -- we welcome your comments. i'm sure the governor does as well. since that white house report, they have decided to highlight teachers in schools. they point out that your state will lose about $22 million in funding for primary and secondary education, putting about 300 teacher and aide jobs at risk. just one of the areas -- can you speak more to that? >> that is the failure of the whole situation. this is what we are doing at the state. we have increased funding for education. it is more the point of getting back to the sponsor. this is not the right way to do cuts. they should look at priorities, working with us to find how we need to be more efficient. host: how would you describe the economy in michigan these days? guest: we a long way to go, but if you compare to where we were at, if you go back to 2009, we had 14% unemployment. so come up we were at the bottom for a decade. we are just going to keep going. host: where are the bright spots, and what areas of michigan do you just think -- which were better these days guest: most people know that autos are coming back. but things like agriculture are doing better. the biggest challenge, the mess here in washington. i think that is holding back a lot of investment. people are saying, if they do not know what the situation is going to be, they are staying on the sidelines. my number one concern is the federal budget guidelines. we have done this at the state level. let's get this done here. host: the unemployment rate nationally was 7%. in michigan in december, it was 8.9%. this from the bureau of labor statistics. the michigan budget is $49 billion be -- $49 billion. the proposal is $50.9 billion. guest: the reason for the increase is we are looking to get additional road funding. need to improve the roads. one thing we are really investing in -- early childhood. we have a major initiative over the next couple of days to put more kids through preschool. that is one of those great incentives, and really it can make us a much better state. at the same time, we are pulling -- paying down our debt. we are paying payment plans to pay off those long-term liabilities. that is critically important. host: one more question before we get to calls. this is about the medicaid expansion. they are right here -- what republican governors are saying yes. your name is here as a medicaid expansion convert. explain your thought process about this aspect of health care. guest: i would not say that i'm a convert. i'm a cpa. the real question is, is there enough primary-care capacity? right now, it is absolutely uncontrolled with emergency room visits happening far too often. it pays for society if you can get them in a primary care relationship. that needs to be the answer. that was the most critical thing. it saves it michigan money in terms of their state budget. this is just like you to at home. for copays, unexpected medical expenses. host: what has the what -- what has to rest of the health care law meant to michigan? guest: i do not think be affordable care act was the priority we should have worked on first and foremost. we are dealing with it. it is the law. the things we need to get to -- starting with primary-care. wellness. personal responsibility needs to be part of health-care. even in trying to lose a few pounds. host: calls for the governor of michiganb ofill is from an arbor, mich.. you are on it with your governor. caller: good evening, mr. snyder. you were supposed to go in and tell us -- i'm a retired union carpenter. we supported to. one of the things that you ran on was that you were going to be a uniter, not a diverer. you got elected, you raise our pensions, taxes, and we're in a situation where again and again, you told us that you were not going to enter into any discussions about the right to work, and now we have right to work. i read in the paper next year, they are going after the prevailing wage. i am in to my attention to retire. i made my plans. i did everything right. now i am trying to figure out how i have over $200 taxes starting last year every month, and now -- we did it right. we planned, we did everything we were supposed to do. now we're talking about raising. the roads, doubling the gas price? . i am looking at this guy who said he is going to be united and i am sitting here scared to death. host: that was built from ann arbor, mich.. governor snyder, what do you make of what one of your constituents had to say? guest: we had to deal with a huge deficit just like we're having the discussion of the federal level. we had to resolve issues. one of those things dealt with do we tax pensions and how we do that? we put in a system to grandfather ran the seniors who already have it. need a fair system, because we have people who still had to work as seniors, and then we had to think about the kids. i appreciate that. with respect to right to work, that was a topic i was not looking for, and that was a function of proposals coming into our states, a terrible proposal that would enshrine many things beyond collective bargaining in our constitution. really, it would have thrown our whole government offtrack. i appreciate the citizens voting that down. that would have been very divisive in our state. i think it will be good for michigan long-term. it is about standing up for workers and that will create jobs in michigan. we to have tough times because we have these issues. we were at the bottom for how many years? now we are coming back and we do need to work harder so we can all succeed. host: kathleen on the line for democrats for gov. snyder. good morning. caller: good morning. how is everybody? gov. snyder, can you explain martial law and if the sequester it does pass, when does martial law, and to place? can you explain marshall lot? thank you. host: -- guest: i appreciate your question. martial law is not something we are doing and i do not believe the federal government is. we have issues we need to address. we need to do this in a better way than having a harsh cuts across the board. host: more from the white house report last night as a relates to michigan and the sequester. they talk about the protections for clean air and clean water in michigan would lose about $4.9 million in funding to ensure protection against pollution and hazardous waste. anything to say there, governor? >> i appreciate the white house outlining the cuts. it is not just about congress. it is not just about the sequester system. why haven't they gotten the job done? why are they not making more thoughtful decisions as a team, working as the white house and congress together? that is their responsibility. the states have done this time and time again and we have done it effectively. host: the white house points out that in michigan about 10,000 civilian dot employees would be furloughed, losing gross pay of about $67.7 million in total. do you suspect that would impede the economic progress you weapon making, especially with the unemployment rate? guest: the deficit is not something that is sustainable in our country. the deficit needs to be addressed. it would be great if the federal code -- if the federal government could even get a budget un. guest: let's get everybody in washington, doing the job they were hired to do. again, there are smarter, better ways. as a state, i am happy to partner with them to say, we need to be more efficient. that is where i come back and say, let's do outcome based programs. let's put dollars to help our citizens. let's not have them spent by government to administer more programs. host: joe was calling from california, an independent. guest: democrats and republicans, one of the republic -- one of the problems is that if they look at cutting everything that means something to you, there are millions and millions of bureaucrats that are throughout the government that set in offices every day and shuffled papers -- shuffle papers. i was trying to look in my notes and find out, how many employees in the defense department does the federal government have? the number is something like 3 million or 30 million. that strikes me. that is an incredible number of people. how is it that all the people you see are the ones that are going to be cut, rather than the ones that are sitting in some office? guest: that is in line with some of my comments. those are the activities and the way we need to look at it. anytime you ask somebody to lose a position, that is tough. you never want to minimize that part of it. in michigan, we had a deficit. good people -- good people can up with good ideas. that was the michigan state police. we have a situation that come from the leadership of the state police, and when we asked them to take a budget cut, they got creative and said, we will close state posts across michigan. normally that would cause a huge it up or. what they said is, let's invest in technology and cars. we closed a lot of police posts, but we did not lay off any troopers. we put more sergeants on the road, going to the front lines, to be more present with customers or citizens, and we got rid of the overhead. that is the kind of thoughtfulness that needs to happen, rather than arbitrary cuts. host: a lot more stories about your largest city, detroit, and its economic issues. what is the future of that city? guest: detroit has many great things going on, young people moving in, some great projects going on. the challenge in detroit is city government. it is not a recent issue. there are good people in the recent administration. this goes back for decades. the city government is unsustainable in terms of its finances. it needs to provide better services. we have had a review team looking at the finances. one of the question it asks is, do we need to take additional steps to get detroit's finances together? -- working better? oddly partner with the city to get that happening? detroit will be a great city again. that is critically important for the future of michigan. caller: what is happening in detroit is disgraceful. look. you run for office. you get in, you get that power, and all good ideas run out of your mind. it seems like all of the government, including state, is bought and sold to the highest bidder. you start off with a decent salary, and then when you all come out of office, your millionaires. who pays? it is always the people at the bottom. you can do better than that. host: let's hear from our guest. guest: a lot of us are doing it to help people. that is the point. i am proud of the fact that i never held office until recently became governor. this is about making a difference. that is why i thought it was valuable to leave the private sector and bring some of the good ideas about how to better manage government and bring them into government. we're being more thoughtful, more accountable. the way i describe it, we need to do a better job in the public sector. coral government is customer service. my customers are the 10 million people of michigan. when i talk about the people of michigan, i talk about them as my customer. we need more of that across the country. host: governor rick snyder is in washington before the national governors' association is having its big annual meeting. here is one comment via twitter. one viewer wants to know -- guest: one of the great things about states -- we are the laboratories of democracy. we have 50 different states. people do things differently. the value of being a governor is the chance to talk and listen to other governors, new, innovative ideas or understand issues that they may see ahead of what what we might see. we can jump on them together. that works out pretty well. i found a number of cases -- i was talking about health care, where i have seen other states look at ideas on lummis that are clear -- that we're not doing in michigan, and we're going to do them. host: one listener once clarity on your comments about detroit. "does that mean the governor is going to take away the opportunity of the citizens of detroit to a vote for their local government?" guest: in michigan, we have an emergency manager lot. it deals with - manager law. i need to make a determination are not in the next 10-20 days, do we have an emergency in detroit? then we might move to an emergency manager. i have not made that determination. that is something any to do in the next couple of weeks. host: there is a headline in the washington post -- your posture following the president's reelection? guest: is a professional relationship. i am a non politician that came to office. i call this relentless positive action. i do not blame anyone. i don't take credit. i was hired to solve problems. when it comes to working with the federal government, i do not fight with them. i do not blame them. we have to work together because we have a common customer. i want to deliver great results. i have not changed my position at all. i never criticized the president. i do not view that is my job. my job is to take care by customer. the best way i can do that is to have a reasonable relationship with the president, to say, how can we work together? i think that is appropriate. host: are republican named john is on a line from michigan. caller: governor, would you suggest that our nation's lawmakers in washington, d.c. to the same as a lark -- is our lawmakers did in lansing? that is to raise taxes to balance revenues and expenditures. guest: 1 did the budget deficit, we made a greater -- we made major reforms, but we also made net cuts to revenues. we did some difficult things. we worked for it in a positive way. you can see the outcomes of that. we have been growing. one of the things holding breath -- growth back is the fact that the sequester -- the sequester is a bad idea. we're not even getting a budget down. think of that. what the budget done so we can move on, have better certainty, and we would grow better if both things were accomplished. caller: i think you have a short memory. your -- do you remember and color have in a $1.7 billion surplus that he gave away to the 47% of rich people in michigan? i think you're trying to turn michigan into florida. kenya least set up reservation for us? -- can you at least set up reservation forecast -- for us? guest: we're trying to put dollars back into rainy day fund. we had a rainy day fund at $2 million. it would last about 30 minutes to run state government. we're up over half a billion dollars now because we need to be putting money aside for the future and unexpected challenges and issues. we're going to keep coming back. things are improving. we need to work hard so everybody has the opportunity to see that. host: here is a tweet -- guest: i can tell you on road funding where we need to make an investment -- we have been a donor state. we have a tougher climate. i cannot figure out any reason why we should be a donner state for roads. -- donor state to roads. it is a case of, let's not pick winners and losers. host: clinton township, mich., a republican. good morning. are you there? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i appreciate talking to the governor directly. the economy is bad, but i would like to make a point about the second amendment and the constitution in general. the governor and the rest of the lawmakers in michigan have the right to secure the right to bear arms. it seems like there's a big push to not only take away the second amendment, but also to restrict many amendments, let alone the right to bear arms. the economy is a bad thing, but if we do not have the second amendment and the constitution, i would like to know what the governor would do to restrict -- to allow the second amendment, to separate ourselves from the federal government, saying they do not dictate to us what we have as law-abiding citizens to protect ourselves, our homes, our property? host: before you answer, i wanted to show the audience a headline. i wanted you to explain this thinking, rick snyder of vetoes a bill that would allow guns in schools. this was a bill that would allow concealed weapons in schools, day care, sports arenas, places of worship, dormitories, and casinos. this is from "the washington post" -- guest: i think michigan has a good set of gun laws. i do not think we should be spending our primary time on this. we have made some improvements. to go to that bill you mentioned -- it was going to allow concealed weapons to be taken to all those different venues. my view was is that there should be a local option or the people locally can make the decision, do they want them or not? it was a balance on both sides. the issue i found missing was, i thought the local people should have the best value of knowing what was best for them. let them make that decision. that was not part of that legislation. the overall gun question -- that is coming up a lot these days, because of these terrific -- horrific shootings. these are terrible tragedies. one of the things i have focused on, i think this should be a focus on mental health, that is where we should be spending our time. how we deal with that more effectively, particularly with young people and more people could be future shooters? that is something we looked at in our budget. i believe mental health is our most important issue to address. host: our guest is rick snyder, in washington as part of the nga meetings. we appreciate you taking the time of your time -- the time not to talk with us this morning. guest: but agreed to be with you. thank you. >> facing a friday deadline of billions of spending cuts known as the sequester, president obama held a conference here in washington. speaking at the white house, the president said congress can avert a sweeping, across-the- board cuts with "just a little compromise." key is joined by vice president joe biden at this event. -- he is joined by vice president joe biden at this event. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. i tell you what, i did not know jack was as good as he is. jack, if you had done that -- jack, if you had done that, i would be introducing you hear. thank you but all, very, very much. you are all much more disciplined than the place that i lived for 36 years up on the hill. you run ahead of schedule. the president is with me. thank you for being here. we have a lot to work done, from fixing a broken immigration system to rebuilding our nation's infrastructure to this new board everyone in america is learning about "sequester." this town, unlike maybe your capitols, is i hope temporarily frozen and not stopped in intense partisanship, the likes of which i have only seen the last couple of years in my career. but you know, the american people move in different we disagree on some things. the american people have been moved. they know the possibilities for this country are immense. the are no longer traumatized by what was it traumatizing event, the great collapse of 2008. there are no longer worried about our economy being overwhelmed by europe at large or china somehow swallowing up every bit of innovation that exists in the world. there are no longer worried about our economy being overwhelmed beyond our shores. there is very little doubt in any circles about america's ability to be in a position to lead the world in the 24th century. -- 21st century. the american people are ready to get up as a civil-rights leader. the american people are tired of being tired. they're ready to get up and move. we are in a good position to lead the world. that is why i think they're so frustrated by what they see and what they don't see here in washington. their frustration is turning into anger. i doubt an interesting dynamic. whether it was a democrat for governor republican -- governor i heard from several of you how do you deal with this? how do you deal with the congress. no distinguished about how you deal with this. you deal with legislatures that are split. you represent a minority party. you get on very well. the accomplish things and are state. that is the way it used to work. there are a number of things we have to do immediately. we may disagree on how to dress them but not the need for them to be addressed. each of you are making different decisions you are grappling with it. i do not think there is much different. i'm not mad a governor from the time of implementing the recovery act and on my cell of a -- and on now who does not think we have to do something about our infrastructure. there is very little disagreement to build an education that has such immense possibilities for our people. most of these issues were united by more than what divides us. these all intersect at a place where both the state and federal governments engage. we are going to have to work together. they overlap in many cases. we will have our differences. we should all agree that the united states has to have the highest percentage of college graduates of any nation in the world. you governors have led the way an early education and the consequences for the prospect of success. you have all led in knowing that we have to have a reform of our high school system so we end not only finding it that way for people that will go to four year colleges, a but there is so much agreement that we ought to be able to get a fair amount done. we should all agree that to grow our economy we have to invest in manufacturing, infrastructure, the question is to invest and how much. there's not much disagreement about the need. i've never met a democrat or a republican u.s. been a governor who does not think the american people should have a sense that hard work will be read -- rewarded. the work party have an opportunity. i do not know of any men and women that are a better living example of that and all be sitting in front of me. we all use the phrase move forward in a balanced way. another man's a balance is another is in balance. that is what we have got to talk about. the one thing i do not think any of the lack is a vision about how great this country can be. we ought to be able to reassert ourselves in a way that we own the 21st century. i know the guy i am about to introduce believes that but you do. let me injured -- introduce you to the president was back with the pastry chef. my friend, barack obama. >> thank you. have a seat. thank you. welcome. thank you for being here. we all have a lot on our plate. everything from our immigration system our education system our goal is to make sure that we can be an effective partner with you. i want to thank the members of my cabinet q. are here and members of the administration. i want to thank jack and mary for their leadership. i want to say thank you for being on their best behavior last night. i was told nothing was broken and no silverware was missing. i did not get any calls from neighbors about the noise. i cannot speak for joe's after party. i heard that was wild. i always enjoy this weekend. as leaders we share responsibility to do whatever we can to help grow our economy entry good middle-class jobs and open up new doors of opportunity for our people. that is our true north. it will guide every decision we make every level. we should be asking ourselves three questions every day. how do we make america a magnet for good jobs, how do we equip our people with the skills to get those jobs and how we make sure if they get those jobs that their hard work actually pays off. you are the ones who are on the ground, seeing firsthand every single day what works and what does that work. that is what makes you so indispensable. what ever you party ran for office, it is one thing that unites all of you. that is the last thing you want to see is washington get in the way of progress. in just four days congress is poised to allow a series of arbitrary budget cuts ticket then that will slow our economy, eliminate good jobs and leave a lot of folks who are thinly stretched scrambling to figure out what to do. this morning he received a report outlining exactly how these cuts will harm middle- class families in your state. thousands will be laid off. tens of thousands of parents will have to deal with finding child care for their children. hundreds of thousands will lose access to primary care and preventive care like flu vaccinations. tomorrow i will be in the tidewater region of virginia where workers will sit idle when they ought to be repairing ships. the uncertainty is already having an effect. companies are preparing layoff notices. families are preparing to cut back on expenses. what you are in town, i hope that you speak with your congressional delegation and remind them exactly what is at stake and exactly who is at risk. here is the thing. these cuts do not have to happen. congress can turn them off any time which is a little bit of a compromise. democrats need to acknowledge that we will make modest reforms in medicare if we want the program there for future generations and if we hope to maintain our ability. i have made this commitment. it is reflected in proposals i made last year. and make those remarks for smart spending cuts. we need republicans to adopt the same approach to tax reform that speaker john boehner champion two months ago. under our concept of tax reform and nobody's rates would go up. we would be able to reduce the deficit by making some tough, smart spending cuts in getting rid of tax loopholes that benefit the well off and the well-connected. sometimes folks in congress think that compromise is a bad word. they figure they will pay a higher price at the polls to working on the other side. as governors, some of you know that compromise is essential to getting things done. making smart choices, that is how gov. o'malley put it on track to all but eliminate the deficit while keeping tuition down and making the public schools among the best in america five years running. that is how the governor balance his budget last year was still investing in key areas like education for tennessee's children. they know we cannot just cut our way to prosperity. alone is not an economic prosperity. you have to make the tough choices to cut what we do not need so we can invest in the things we do need. the first is infrastructure. this should be a no-brainer. the schools are falling apart. it is what i have to do the best with transportation and communications networks to their businesses and customers. i talked about this in my state of the union address. to the people to work right now like the structurally deficient bridges across the country. it attract private capital to upgrade what our businesses need most. modern ports to move our goods. modern schools that are worthy of our children. i know some people oppose any idea i put forward. rebuilding infrastructure is not my idea. it is everybody's idea. it is what built this country. this makes clean energy structure a top priority. folks who think spending really is the biggest problem should be more concerned than anybody about improving our infrastructure right now. we're talking about deferred maintenance. we know we will have to spend the money. he said failing to maintain our roads is not a plan for being fiscally conservative. it is true all across the united states. we could be putting folks back to work right now. we know contractors are begging for work. they will come on time and under budget which never happened. we could make a whole lot of practice right now on things we know we're going to have to do at some point. it is like fixing a row for a broiler that is broken. one of the biggest hurdles that you face when it comes to fixing infrastructure is red tape. oftentimes that comes out to washington. sometime we shave the timeline. regional teamsp that will focus on some of the unique needs each of you have in various parts of the country. we're going to help the pacific northwest to a faster and renewable energy projects. we will help the northeast corridor faster on high-speed rail service. we will help the midwest and other states move faster on projects that help farmers deal with worsening drought. we will help states like north and south dakota move faster on oil and gas production. all of these projects will get more americans back to work faster. we can do even more if we can get congress to act. the second prayer someone to talk about his education. particular education the start of the earlier stage. i want to partner with each of you to make high-quality preschool available to every child in america. this is an area where we have already seen great bipartisan work at the state level. how vicious in a state to highlight this issue because georgia has made it a frigid i was just in georgia to highlight this -- i was just in georgia because they are making it a priority to fix this. kids that are poor are leveling up. everybody is seeing a real improvement because it is high- quality, early childhood education. studies showed the sooner children begin to learn in these settings the better he or she does down the road. we all end of saving money. fewer than 3 in san for your old are enrolled in a high-quality preschool programs. most middle-class parents cannot afford a few hundred dollars a week in additional income for these kinds of preschool programs. poor kids who need it most black access. that lack of access -- lack access. every dollar we invest can save more later off. this is a priority in alabama. gov. schneider's making it a priority in michigan. tomlin has made it in west virginia. even in a tight budget, republicans and democrats are focused on high-quality, early childhood education. we want to make sure we can be an effective partner. we should be able to do that for every child everywhere, a democrat, republican, police state, read state. all of us want our kids to -- blue state, red state. all this want our kids to do that. that will be better for every state. it will be better for this country. that is what high-quality early trotted education can deliver. i hope you are willing to part with us to make that happen. let me close with this. there are always going to be areas where we have some genuine disagreement. here in washington and in your respective states. there are more areas where we can do a lot more cooperating then i think we have seen over the last several years. to do that this town has to get past its obsession with focusing on the next election in some of the next generation. all of us are concerned about our politics both in our own parties as well as the other parties. at some point we have to do some governing. certainly what we cannot do is keep careening from a manufacturing price crisis to crisis. the american people have dug long and hard to get out of one crisis. they are meeting their response abilities. they are giving it their all. alloted you are doing the same things in your respective states. we have the same kind of attitude here in washington. the american people have a right to expect that. it is not just to shrink in our economy for the short-term but to reignite what has always been the central premise of america's economic engine. that is that we build a stronger thriving middle-class where if you work hard in this country, no matter who you are or what you look like, you can make it. you can succeed. that is our goal. i know that is the goal of all of you as well. i look forward to our partnering. what i want to do is clear out the press so we can take some questions. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> the federal government begins $85 billion in across the board cut called sequestration this coming friday. "washington journal" is talking this week with reporters on what it means. we talk about how sequester cut will affect the homeland's security department. >> walk us through this what is galling to happen beginning this friday? guest: you are talking about cuts with every agency at the department. you are talking about furloughs of 12 to 14 days for front-line workers, customs, border protection. you are talking about cuts to border staff. you will see lines increase at border checkpoints and customs lines at the airport. tsa is one agency where the federal government does interact with the public. the department has said at the busiest airports, you could see checkpoint lines increased by up to one hour. fema has said they will have to decrease their disaster relief fund money. immigration and customs enforcement has said they will no longer be able to maintain the number of detention beds that congress requires. host: what is the size of homeland security at this point? can the agency to absorb these cuts and still do the work it needs to do? guest: the secretary has said this is a hit that they can take and maintain the current level of operations. she described this as destructive cuts and one that no amount of planning and will help them get around. with cuts, they say we will try to preserve security and cut around to see where we can find savings. this is one area where the department has said it will have some impact on security and the economy. host: what impact do you think it will have on security realistically? guest: it is hard to say. you have the border patrol saying they will have to cut back on agents. that is a significant number considering congress requires they have about 21,000 in both categories. when you are talking about border security, we see a lot of drug trafficking and illegal immigration trafficking. it is hard to see where there would not be some impact when you are looking at that kind of hit. host: you mentioned the broader economic impact of world. what are you looking out? guest: that is a bigger concern than security. the travel industry is very nervous about this. they rightly point out that when air traffic slows down, a kind of become the target for this. they are afraid they could become the face of sequestration for the average person. when it comes to a cut in the government, the average citizen may not feel much of an impact. when they go to the airport and have to wait an extra hour, they will feel that. you are also talking about the southern border issues. a lot of people think of that as just a security issue with illegal immigration and that kind of thing. that is an area where trillions of dollars in commerce flow over every year. every minute that this slows down is millions of dollars worth of trade. >> the house to me that took what p.m. eastern today to consider a bill renaming a california flight center for the first man on the moon. the senate also gambles -- alison at 2:00 a.m. today. later in the day a judicial nomination. you will be able to see live coverage on c-span2. the arms control association talks today with thomas pickering about iran's nuclear capabilities. c-span2 will have live coverage starting at 2:00 p.m. eastern. a first series gets under way tonight with a look at the life of martha washington. we will be gamut her like before george washington and we will show you some of the places that influence -- we will begin with life before george washington and we will shamshow you some of the places that influenced him. >> up next, michael daniel talks about the president's cyber security order issued about a week and a half ago. reports of an increasing number of cyber attacks on u.s. from china. this is about half an hour. >> beginning with a state of the union address earlier this month, president obama began playing a framework for enhanced cyber security protection. here is a him from earlier this month. >> we know companies like our corporate secrets. now our enemies are also seeking the ability to sabotage our power grid, our financial institutions, our air traffic control systems. we cannot look back years from now and wonder why we did nothing in the face of real threats to our security and economy. that is why earlier today i signed a new executive order that will strengthen our cyber defenses by increasing information sharing in developing standards to protect our national security and privacy. >> in the president's executive order of february 12, 2013 he talks about vital infrastructure. how is the white house defining vital? >> it is defined as if something really bad happened to, lots of bad things would happen in the real world. potential a loss of life. in the cyber realm in means you could have that the resulting physical effects in the real realm. >> a lot of those infrastructures are in private hands. >> the vast majority of them are. >> will these private companies have to participate in this enhancement? >> for the most part it to be a voluntary and collaborative process with them to participate. if you look through the executive order and follow how the ring work is laid out -- framework is laid out, there is a process with the national institute of science and technology leading a process to develop the framework. then the department of homeland security will encourage adoption of that framework. at the same time, the primary regulators will look at their regulations and requirements and assess relative to that framework that is being developed. they believe that their regulations -- if they believed their regulations are not sufficient in that area, they could in theory proposed new regulations that would require infrastructure to be brought up to that level. you'll find that it is a voluntary process for companies to participate. >> there are some deadlines in this executive order. will congress have a role in developing this cybersecurity? >> for the executive order, that is driven from the executive branch side. from our perspective, the executive order, there's a down payment that we ultimately need to get to. we viewed the executive order that will be going on underneath it is advancing the cause of cybersecurity and advancing some of the issues that were raised in the congressional debate previously. we still need congress to enact legislation in cybersecurity. >> as a white house cyber security coordinator, what is your goal? >> i describe my role as the chief calf herder. it's my job to oversee the policy development as related to cybersecurity and work on ensuring the agencies are implementing the president's policies in the space. there is a chunk of my job that is an outreach to the private sector and industry and academia in the space. there's also an aspect that is international in talking to my counterparts in other countries from great britain to canada to germany and other parts of the world as well. >> also joining us is a guest who is editor of executive briefing. >> thank you. >> how well the executive order improve? what would be standard to improve cybersecurity? >> if you look at what we are doing, it is taking the best practices from the leading companies that do cybersecurity well and studying those -- and spreading those out to companies that do not do it well yet. what you will see is that it is about taking a lock of the standards that are out there, the practice is well known, and putting them together in a well-known framework that the company could adopt. this will enable companies to have a more rigorous process to make sure the cybersecurity is where they are and what they need to be doing. it will help close a lot of the known vulnerabilities and access at bad guys have right now. >> is as similar to security practices that federal agencies have in place right now? >> it would be related. you would see the same kind of diversity that you see in the or or. -- in the private sector. some are much further along than others. they want to raise the bar there as well. there are parallels. there are differences in how the private industry operates and how the government operates. it will surely be different, but you will feel parallels. >> there is a law to govern how companies should secure their systems. has that work? if so, -- >> it has worked, but it needs to be updated. it moved the ball forward for that time period, and now we have a more sophisticated understanding of what you need to do in cybersecurity. one of the things that needs to be updated is a move away from a compliance model were you periodically go back and check everything. that will not work now in the modern cyberspace age should things move -- in the cyberspace age. things move too fast. what are your vulnerabilities? have you done all of the necessary patching? you would have all of that information in real-time. >> one of the main stumbling blocks on cybersecurity is that the industry believes that any regulatory regime might resemble it in that it is more focused on complying. how do modify those concerns? >> one of the things we have done is that we are in the process of a reach with industry and academia. we have held dozens of meetings -- more than 30, actually -- with groups and companies. we have stressed that we want a process that is very collaborative. it does not do us any good to put out a compliance model that they cannot comply with or do that does not make sense in their business environment. the goal is to improve cybersecurity. i would say that the other thing that you can do in the executive order is that it is is designed to be highly collaborative and have industry be the one that is defining those standards. >> michael daniel, in the information sharing, you're right it is the policy of the u.s. government to end prove the and quality of cyber -- improve the quality of cyber security. our u.s. entities required to share my information with the government as well? >> the president can only direct executive branch agencies to take action. under the executive order, only the entities are on the federal side. we would like companies to share more information with the federal government. we are working to encourage them to do so. we are working to have that happen. that is an area where we need legislation to deal with some of the issues that are in that space to enable more information to flow back to the private sector and to the government that the text privacy and several -- protects privacy and civil liberties. >> the word voluntary is used for currently. >> yes. we look at the issues that we face in cyberspace. if you look at the problems and how the government has to deal with them, you see no one agency can deal with it. and needs to be a holistic approach. it is not just the federal government. it is federal, state, and local governments that deal with this issue. it also involves the private sector. it needs to be a collaborative approach from all parties involved working together to tackle the problem. we are stressing the voluntary part because it is the leaders in the industry that we want to come together that have expertise and the skills to make a difference. >> what are some concerned you have heard about cybersecurity from either companies such as banks and electric companies, etc.? >> you hear a lot of different concerns. one of the concerns that we hear and you see it reflected in timeliness, you shared information with us that happened three months ago, but what about now? we are trying to increase our timeliness to we are ahead of the issue. we are making progress in that space. over the last year, we have improved our ability to share information with the private sector. i also hear concerns from different sectors about ensuring that the other sectors that they rely on also are increasing their cybersecurity. if you are a wink, you are reliant on water, power, -- if you are a inc., you are reliant on water, power, and transportation to do your business. we want to make sure all of these are moving together to increase security because everything is interdependent. >> you mentioned that there are currently some barriers to government sharing information with the private sector. what are those legal obstacles? >> the fact that you mentioned barriers to the private sector side, those are more about policy and how we implement it. one of the things you see the executive order is that we can ramp that up on the president's site. -- side. in the other direction, there are essentially carriers to information sharing with the government based on liability. there are concerns about company sharing and competitiveness issues. i think from the administration respective, there are laces that we want to have with congress on these barriers to information sharing coming back into government and between companies. one of the things i have discovered working on these issues is that when you're willing to get down to the real barriers, they are often more limited than what appears. we want to be careful that we do not overshoot in legislation. >> you bring that up because the cybersecurity and trade secrets -- what would allow companies to come to the government? >> what it does is that it puts in place the foundation to ensure that we can deal with information when it comes into the government to protect by the sea and civil liberties. -- protect privacy and civil liberties. i think that will give the community much greater assurance that the government can protect them properly handle information relating to cybersecurity when it comes in. that should help encourage people or companies to have some confidence that we can handle the situation on the federal side. this will be a continuing conversation he treated the administration and congress on how to lay out the legal foundations and friend mark -- conversation between the administration and congress on how to lay out that legal foundations. it is a time-consuming process. >> what kind of concerns are you hearing from members of congress about his executive order? >> in general, the reaction has been positive. i think most of the members, certainly on the democratic side and even the republican side, we have seen a willingness to talk and openness to discuss how to move forward with this and to help that implementation as effectively as possible. >> section 7 c. protect individual privacy and civil liberties. how do you protect business and individuals civil liberties? >> a lot of that has to do with when you look at the way information needs to be shared, it is about making sure that only be appropriate and necessary pieces of information get shared and are moved within the government. we need to establish the rules in the later criteria for when specific pieces of information will be shared and under what conditions. what that means is in many cases for a lot of parts of the government, you do not need specific names or attributions for specific individuals. you just need the broad outline for the incident that occurred. in those conditions, only that information would get shared. in other cases, law enforcement would need that information. they have a long-standing procedure to protect that kind of information once it is part of an investigation. this is about the procedures that are largely present in the government, but making sure we are functioning efficiently. >> michael daniel, a lot of new stories about china. headlines are often china has attacked x. big cover story in bloomberg as well. is this policy directed toward china? >> no. it is not directed at one specific country. it is addressing the broad range of threats we face in cyberspace. it could stem from domestic or overseas actors. it does not targeted at any one individual country. >> when we see headlines that say china attacks, what does that mean? >> it is hard to speculate on what might be behind some of that. it is undoubtedly true that we have seen actors that are based in china that carry out activities, but we have seen that in multiple countries around the world. the attribution problem continues to be difficult in cyberspace. from the administration side, with china to focus on those headlines and instead focus on improving the cybersecurity defenses defenses across-the- board so would contort -- we can thwart actors. >> there was a report released that generated many headlines. they have tasted these attacks to a building in shanghai. at what point do attacks that appear to be exercised by a foreign state becomes a military threat? >> i think that is a good question. it is one that we are continuing to sort through. there is a lively debate both within the government and the industry and the private sector. if you take a step back, one of the questions that we are currently wrestling with is what exactly the government's role is in providing cybersecurity to the private sector? at what point does the government intervene and under what conditions? those are questions that are once we were we are still trying to figure out the rules of the road. >> when does the government intervene? >> when you take their recent state of attacks on the financial sector are, the government was very involved -- sector, the government was very involved and active when they requested assistance. we worked with them closely to figure out what was going on. i think we would do that with any industry that came to us with those kinds of requests. that was some of the impetus behind the executive order to make sure our fiscal infrastructure really has the structures in process and practices in place to really defend their networks robustly. it is in the government' interest to make sure the infrastructure can protect itself. >> how involved is the intelligent maybe? >> -- community? >> it is about sharing information of what the intelligent community has and the law enforcement has. it is combining that information across the government. i learned that lesson over and over again. no one agency or part of the government has a monopoly on this area. no matter how competent or good it is, it takes a coordinated effort to a chess -- address the problem. >> would it be fair to say that the line is not as clear as it is in other areas? >> i would say that you had to take all of the roles together. there are clear lines include responsibilities that belong to say the department of homeland security versus law enforcement and first is what the military will do. it is not that they are blurred, but you often need tools from across those areas in order to just anyone problem. -- van just any one problem. you will want to draw information that law enforcement has. it is not that law enforcement is straying into areas that belongs to intelligence community or the intelligence community is straying into information that belongs to the homeland security. you need all elements working closely together to tackle the problem. >> what about the u.s.? does it see cyber security as threats? >> i cannot go into details. what i can say from an overall standpoint, across-the-board if you look at what the administration is doing in this space, we have been updating and expanding and defining policies in cybersecurity and operations across the board. you see that in the executive order. you see that and the critical infrastructure. you see it in other strategy documents. really what you see is that evolution of all of these capabilities across the board as a tool. we apply the same principle, the same underlying approach that we do to any of our diplomatic law enforcement or military schools. the administration -- any administration would apply it and using those same principles. >> michael daniel is currently serving his third president. he worked under president clinton and president bush and is now the white house cybersecurity courted native. -- courted native. section eight b. had you envision incentives to participate in the program? >> we are looking for a broad set of incentives that encourage companies to adopt a framework. one of the things we discovered as we were working on the executive order is that there is a lot of possibilities, but not much has been done to develop them. part of that is to flush those out. you can imagine a whole range of incentives, sort of a housekeeping seal of approval. there could be government contracts, if that is possible. you must play standards to have a contract with the government in this area. it we want to explore what those are. >> again, there has been a lot of talk of the attacks on the u.s. companies with to trade secrets. there has been a new strategy to combat them. how much of a priority are these cyber security issues in discussion now? will that change as they release this new strategy? >> it has been interesting. what you have seen over the last few years, cyber security issues that have emerged in a number of different areas, i think it is much more part of the double matted discussions now than it was four or five years ago. it is emerging from the cio and the computer security leaks. it is emerging as an issue. the government is being moved out of nsa issue. all of them have to do it this issue. there has been a long series of efforts to move the issue forward and make it front and center. >> one more question from our guest. >> if the legislation passes, we have seen discussion of antivirus software. how is this in terms of improving security? what steps would improve the security for u.s. organizations? >> when you look at it across the board, all companies need to have a robust set of cybersecurity practices in place no matter what industry they are in. you need to have updated antivirus software. you need to have that. that will not catch everything. you need to know what is on your network and who is on your network. make sure you can watch your network and know when information is entering or leaving your network. i think that things that would make the most difference now is for companies to make sure that they are employing the best practices in the industry and going after those basic kinds of cybersecurity to really raise the bar. the next thing we need to do is increase those information flows. make sure that we have a good sense of what the environment is like and what is happening. that will put us in a much better space to tackle the long- term and more persistent threat. >> michael daniel is the cyber security coordinator for the white house. this is "the communicators" on c-span. >> congress returns today from its week long recess. they will meet at 2:00 p.m. eastern to consider renaming a california flight center. the senate also dabbles in at 2:00 p.m. eastern. they will start with the annual reading of the washington post a farewell address. you'll be able to see allied said it covered on c-span2. the arms control association talks with associationpickering about possible diplomatic solutions. c-span2 will have live coverage starting at 2:00 p.m. eastern. but at least 25, she was one of the wealthy as well as -- wealthiest widows. the british threatened to take her hostage. leaders to become our nation's first first lady at age 57. meat martha washington tonight in the first program of c-span new series "first ladies." be part of the conversation about martha washington with your phone calls, tweets, and facebook posts. >> the u.s. house is about to gavel in. at 2:00 p.m. easter we will have live coverage. the nation's governors have been meeting for their annual winter meeting. the governors heard from dr. oz on the obesity situation here in the u.s. >> what can we not lose weight? people think i'm glad to muscle my way through that. there are a dozen redundant systems in the body that force us to eat. how many of you can hold your breath indefinitely under water/ none of you. it is impossible. it violates the basic understanding of physiology. he cannot lose weight by trying to lose weight. your biology will always be your willpower. we do not measure the right stuff. it does not matter what your waited -- weight is. matters what's your waist is. i am 6 foot 1 inches tall. 72 plus 73 inches. 36.5 inches. if my weight is more than 36.5 inches i am at risk for cardiovascular disease. men after the age of 40 never buy a new belt size. they put it in need of the fact. they walk around like this. famously themselves picking the 32 inch waist is so what they have. it is significantly greater. why is the waste -- waist more important? the gallbladder is the green thing. you just had breakfast. year's food is moving. it will mix with the bile. as it watches the food, it breaks down the small particles of that get observed -- absorbed through the wall of the small intestine. he goes up through the porthole vein that carries nutrients to the liberal -- to the liver. if it is a job or simple carbs, it turns your liver to foi gras. you begin to do something else. it becomes toxic. the momentum get ponderously large in gets pulled across the screen. that is why i care about belly fat. what kills us is killsbelly fat. -- kills us is the belly fat. our ancestors needed to store fat in times of famine. stress is the number one reason we accumulate fat there. the reason that is true is because of what was stressed? a famine. we did that have enough food. you turned out for months to force you to eat. -- hormones to force you to eat. he can go to c-span.org. in the u.s. house is about to gavel in. members will start with one- minute speeches on any topic. they will consider one bill today renaming a california flight center honoring the first man on the moon, and neil armstrong. the first vote will happen at about 6:30 p.m. the house changes to a senate bill on the violence against women act. in the senate is also meeting today. they will battle and in just a moment. the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. scloip the speaker's room, washington, d.c. -- the clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., february 25, 2013. i hereby appoint the honorable steve womack to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the prayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroy. chaplain conroy: let us pray. eternal god, we give you thanks for giving us another day. at the people's house reassemble our nation faces a complicated and too many a confusing economic issue. bless each member of this assembly with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding needed to meet the interests of the citizens of the united states. renew in us all the adoption by your spirit that we may affirm our freedoms not only with conviction in the way we understand others but in ourselves by actions proven beyond words. bless us this day and every day . may all that is done here this day be for your greater honor and glory. amen. the speaker pro tempore: the chair has examined the journal of the last day's proceedings and announces to the house his approval thereof. the gentlelady from north carolina. ms. foxx: mr. speaker, pursuant to clause 1 of rule 1, i demand a vote on agreeing to the speaker's approval of the journal. the speaker pro tempore: the question is on agreeing to the speaker's approval of the journal. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. ms. foxx: mr. speaker, i demand the yeas and nays. the speaker pro tempore: the yeas and nays are requested. those favoring a vote by the yeas and nays will rise. a sufficient number having arisen, the yeas and nays are ordered. pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20, further proceedings on the question are postponed. the pledge of allegiance will be led by the gentlelady from north carolina, ms. foxx. ms. foxx: please join me in the pledge to our wonderful flag. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. the speaker pro tempore: the chair will entertain requests for one-minute speeches. for what purpose does the gentleman from south carolina wish to be recognized? mr. wilson: i ask unanimous consent to address the house for one minute and to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentlelady from south carolina is recognized for one minute. mr. wilson: mr. speaker, in four short days, thousands of jobs will fall victim to the president's sequester. it is no secret that the very proposal for sequestration originated in the white house, and what has the president done to help congress solve the mess he created by reaching the solution? he has traveled across the country and made speeches from the white house, campaigning for tax increases. in friday's "washington post," bob woodward described the president's approach to raise taxes as a substitute for the sequester as, "he's moving the goal post." the best way that our country can avert this devastating policy which will destroy jobs and place our national security at risk is for the president to put the interest of the american people before party politics. house republicans have voted twice to replace the sequester with commonsense reforms. time is running out. with just days to go, the president should begin working with house republicans by engaging in the legislative process. in conclusion, god bless our troops and we will never forget september 11 and the global war on terrorism. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from california seek recognition? >> mr. speaker, i ask unanimous consent to address the house for one minute. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentleman from california is recognized for one minute. mr. waxman: mr. speaker, the nonpart san government accountability office took an historic action this month. for the first time ever g.a.o. put climate change on its high-risk list because of the serious threat it poses to the taxpayer. it makes sense. just look at the superstorm sandy and the droughts and heat waves we've recently endured. extreme weather events have cost our nation more than $180 billion over the last two years. that's why today the co-chairs of the bicameral task force on climate change are writing to 69 inspectors' general across the federal government. we're asking for their help in assessing whether government entities are doing all they can to confront this threat. as a member of the safe climate caucus, i believe it's time we take this issue seriously. if we don't, we will leave our children an unstable climate and disaster costs that they will not be able to afford. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from texas seek recognition? mr. burgess: mr. speaker, i rise to address the house for one minute and to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentleman from texas is recognized for one minute. mr. burgess: mr. speaker, the affordable care act becomes more apparent every day that goes by, and the problems that are contained thrin. indeed, the president's takeover of health care delivery is more chaos to our health care system. we have 29 states that are not going to be participating in state exchanges. so a federal exchange will be set up in those states. but the complex eligibility process that citizens will have to go through the exchange of personal information with the federal exchange -- with federal agencies that they're going to be required to provide is strule staggering. once an individual smits an application to an exchange, the information is then shared with health and human services, the social security administration, department of homeland security , the treasury department and the i.r.s. enrollees will not only have to submit their information when they first enroll but resubmit every year. the president's flaw says that it will be ready by federal 1. they are not forthcoming with the information that they are in fact on track. in fact, the information piece that is supposed to be ready when this is all switched on in october is likely not to be ready. there was a better way to do this. republicans had better ideas. governors had better ideas. the administration simply would not listen. i yield back my time. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentleman from maryland seek recognition? mr. hoyer: i ask unanimous consent to address the house for one minute and to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentleman from maryland is recognized for one minute. mr. hoyer: thank you, mr. speaker. we have now entered the final week before the dangerous, arbitrary and irrational policy of sequestration. which republicans proposed first in their cut, cap and balance bill in july of 2011. if i were the majority leader, mr. speaker, that policy would not go into effect. budget discipline is absolutely necessary, but damaging job growth and our economy to do so is self-defeating. the only responsible way forward is for republicans and democrats to work together to achieve a balanced solution to deficits that can turn off the sequestration. house and senate democrats have each proposed balanced alternatives that combine smart, targeted cuts in spending and tax expenditures. i would hope the majority leader, mr. cantor, would bring that to the floor. while many republicans have been praising the sequester as a viable path forward, democrats recognize this mindless policy for the danger it is. i urge my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, mr. speaker, to recognize the sequester's consequences and to work with democrats to find an alternative, or if that can't be done, to abandon this reckless policy. we only have four days left to go, and our country is over -- our well-being depends on it. mr. speaker, i ask unanimous consent to call up h.r. 699 which is the balanced democratic alternative to sequestration, which i know we have ample time to debate over the next few days and hopefully send to the senate. the speaker pro tempore: the chair cannot entertain that request without consent -- appropriate consent from both sides. the time has expired. for what purpose does the gentlelady from north carolina seek recognition? ms. foxx: i ask unanimous consent to address the house for one minute, mr. speaker, and to revise and extend. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentlelady from north carolina is recognized for one minute. ms. foxx: thank you, mr. speaker. i appreciate the comments of our colleague from maryland, but i think he needs to direct them to the president. i am going to speak to that in my one-minute. the editorial page of "the washington post" is not known for being critical of the president. this weekend, however, it published an op-ed by one of their most veteranned reporters which should establish once and for all that the squesters, the across-the-board spending cuts was the brain child of the obama administration. woodward writes that at 2:30 on the afternoon of july 27, 2011, white house officials jacque lew came up with the idea of the sequester. even though his assertion is that "quote, obama personally approved of the plan, end quote, which was present. woodward reports that in his confirmation hearings in the senate, when asked about proposing the sequester, lew went into deniable mode, end quote. the american people are tired of denial mode, mr. speaker. we need a serious plan to replace the president's sequester and it needs to come from the other side of the aisle. i yield back. mr. faleomavaega: pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the chair declar >> at age 25, she was one of the wealthiest with those in the colonies, and in her mid 40's she was considered an enemy by the british. later she would become our late nation's first first lady. martha washington, we will visit some of the places that influence her life, including mount vernon, a valley forge, and philadelphia. be part of the conversation with your phone calls, tweets, and facebook posts, tonight at 9:00 eastern, on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org. >> ben bernanke heads to capitol hill tomorrow morning where he will deliver a semiannual monetary policy report. live coverage begins at 10:00 eastern on c-span3. the discussion now on how automatic spending cuts taking effect on friday will impact states. politico talked with governor's as part of their third states solutions conference. other topics include gun control and immigration reform. this is about an hour and a half. >> the whalers -- i should not have brought that up. to pass the time, they took up carving, and to make money they nutmegs.- the term nutmeggers is not a nice term. >> take you for taking the time today. i wanted to extend our condolences for lost that your states suffered in december. i thought we would start there, because that is the most important thing in your life since mid december. the vice president was in the state yesterday, and you used that opportunity to roll out some of your own proposals. >> >> it was an unbelievable tragedy which i believe has changed our discussion in the united states about what to do about gun violence. what we want to do is have a safer state. i did rollout a comprehensive list of things that i believe should be included in legislation, including banning the future sale of assault weapons and defining them in a way that the nra cannot drive a truck through. everybody knows what an assault weapon is, and yet this is -- adam -- mrs. lanza was able to go into a store and buy guns. we are going to --we are going to prohibit private sales unless there is a licensed dealer involved or somebody who can run the background check. there are a whole lot of other things and there. it is quite comprehensive. i hope it moves a package it sooner than later. obviously there are other things that will have to be addressed. i have charged them with other specifics. >> at the same time, you want to see federal action, too. it seems like here in washington, the only thing that could get past is an expanded background check. that would not have stopped -- he got the guns from his mother. is the federal government falling short on gun control? >> sure, it is. we had a magazine size limitation. in 2004 when it needed to be renewed, it was not renewed. we let a lot of people down as a nation. as far as background checks, when you go up and down the 95. you do it in philadelphia or new york city or hartford and standard -- stanford. if you trace it to the last place it can be traced to, it is in florida or virginia, which allows sales that we would never allow. people put them in the back of the car and put them in the back of their cars. we do need federal action. the lack of federal action cannot be an excuse in my state and what we have been through to that did this right. >> did the vice president of any indication endorsed it about the prognosis for federal action? did he indicate magazine still a possibility? >> he believes it is a possibility. there is a growing consensus around the issue of background checks on the federal level. i think there is hope -- i think he is hopeful assault weapons will be limited. i think you have it. >> on the state level you are confident that you will get sweeping gun control bill to your desk. >>. -- i am. i entered the debate because i wanted to move it in that direction. i think we need to move it in that direction. i did enter the debate as of yesterday. i think we will get there. what's on the same topic of federal and state relations, march 1 is coming pretty soon. that is when automatic cuts will go into effect. you have a large base. you have contractors surrounding that. large federal contractors. what with the impact be of a sequester under state? >> you have to figure out the republican serving the congress are routinely doing everything they can to defeat the recovery. they did it on a crazy debate on whether we would pay our debt. they did it in december on a crazy debate about going over the cliff, which they did it. they are doing it again right now and it will do it again on the debt question. every step of the way, what they are really doing is taking the middle class of america in the teeth. having said that, at some point, you have to figure they will stop putting their hand with the hammer. it is just not working. >> what is the actual impact understates? >> it is bad. 750,000 jobs spread out the united states. that is not my estimate or the democrat estimate. it is the congressional budget office. our share is more heavily weighted towards us. you are going to have to start furloughing national guard. we have already seen what the defense cutback in december did to the economy now magnified several times over. this is really bad stuff. we are notifying municipalities today of what the impact we believe these cuts will have an their budget. a lot of it comes out of title 1. urban education systems rely on that pier request you and the other democratic governors before you came here this afternoon. did you convey to the president a sense of urgency about his role and the sequestered? >> the president is -- he has a sense of urgency. i think the president is also frustrated. who do you deal with? the speaker cannot cut a deal and go back to his caucus and sell it. mitch mcconnell cannot make a deal and go back and the guarantee sufficient votes. neither one of them are willing to cut people is to do what they would otherwise do. when lindsey gramm and john mccain are saying that this is really crazy stuff, you know there are people both in the senate and house that get it and want to avoid this. anybody on the defense side, everybody knows we have to trim our sails. at least we should allow the secretary to make the decisions as opposed to this crazy across the board. >> talking about the budget issue your state is facing. you had to raise taxes in your state to meet the budget deficit. what is the way ford for governors in this country who are facing similar scenarios? you raise taxes. and other states that is not tenable. is that a mix of spending cuts and tax increases? >> i was the first democrat elected governor and 24 years. the outgoing governor handed me a deficit larger than any other state in the nation representing 17% of revenue. there was no way to cut your way out of it. there was no way to tax arena of it. you had to do both. we had to respect the relationship as the employees and we did both of those things. so much so that and relate -- respecting our relationship we have $21.5 billion in savings over a 20 year period of time. combined with the fact the but and generally accepted accounting principles. we will pay an hour obligations earlier the my predecessors had negotiated when they gave away the store. that was it was another $5.8 billion. well in excess of $26 billion will be saved over a 20-year period of time. yes, we saved taxes by over $1 billion per year but we cut more out of the budget. i think a reasonable approach is what people have to take. i think we have to live within our means. we will balance the budget. i have given a plan to balance the budget without raising taxes. >> raising taxes, making tough cuts, that does not bode well for approval ratings in your state or any state. are you concerned about 2014 given what we have had to do there in connecticut? >> i have spent a lot of time thinking about it, frankly. i have a job to do. i do not want to be a politician that is doing things for the short run. i was lucky enough to have 14 years as a mirror of stanford. -- stamford. we did some important work. everyday work onto tomorrow but well into the future. i think we will get credit at some point for the hard work we have done and cut through the rhetoric that is spewed around that. but speaking of the future, education is a passion of yours. you have been a democratic governor and as a reformer on the issue that has caused unease among the ranks of your state. cut to meet generally about your experience and also the way ahead for democrats. you think your party is going to become more invested in education reform in the last -- >> i have a lot to say about this subject. i think arne duncan has done more than any other secretary of education who has ever served. i think this administration has taken a lot of very good and strong positions. they are starting to pay off. i think democrats have to find a way to lead these discussions. there is a certain reality in america that 90% of our children will be educated and public education. that is the reality. in a place like connecticut that has very high achievement levels on average, we have the largest gap between high achievers and low achievers. you get to places like a new haven or a hartford or a new london where 40% of the children fail to get out of a -- to get a high-school diploma, it is related to socio-economic spirit if you are opposing that as an excuse, that is not an excuse. you can draw this a long home ownership plans, racial lines, family income lines, you can also draw it along the line that quite frankly, we know what works and education. we have enough models of there that tell us you can educate anybody. we are more likely to replicate our failures than our successes. every time there is a success and education people running around trying to explain why that is not applicable. it is applicable. we need to replicate those experiences. >> should teachers be more of a partner in this effort? in your experience, they are a pretty fiercely opposed to what you were trying to do. a lot of money against your plan. >> in the end, we have a package. we have a package that the secretary described as the most comprehensive single reform package passed in any state. yes, it was a pretty bad dust up and some elbows were thrust. at the end of the day, we got what we needed them have to implement the heck out of it. but some ask about your state and one of your neighbors. i was struck by a piece about -- he talked to you recently. he said, al smith, who has not been the emperor of new york, you read the names that were all familiar, you said, new york likes to have a per governors. that does not lie in connecticut. why do you not have a number governors? -- emperor governors? >> the. i was trying to make, in each jurisdiction has a styled are comfortable with. new york is one of those places that once big, bold -- i use the term emperors'. >> that is what they want. other states do not want that. >> what does connecticut want? >> i do not think the one an emperor. i think for many years there were comfortable with governors who did not try to do a lot. that is what i am trying to change. i went to -- i do not want to be emperor, but i want to get a lot done. we had to balance the budget. we had to take on job growth. we needed to take on three k-12 reform. we needed to reform higher education. we needed to do something about training and work force and precision manufacturing because we are aging out machinist's more rapidly than anywhere else. we fail to grow jobs at a time 23 million jobs or split between 24 states. >> for a long time, your state which obviously a liberal leaning states and republican governors to hartford. you saw the same thing in providence and boston. this happens often in the new england. that has changed in the last few years. to talk for a minute about the impact of what that has meant politically and how the democratic chief executive -- has that created new tensions with the speaker of the house? used to getting his way? >> i think what has happened in connecticut over a period of time as the legislature decided to take out a policy role and an administrative role because never governors who did not like policy and did not like the biggest reasons. the responsibilities to over that way. i have been a chief executive over 40 years of the city. two years of a governor. i know what direction i am trying to lead the state. is there a conflict? rather habits that the to chance, yes. hopefully i it getting better working with them. i think there are getting to know me of a to a bit better. we also have a five-and -- 5 natural disasters declared. we had the largest per-capita deficit in the nation. we had the biggest achievement gap of the nation. we have failed to grow jobs on a net basis for 22 years. these are pretty big issues. >> let's talk politics here. governors of both parties are here. you have some pretty tough things to say about your counterparts in the republican party. republicans have more governor is now than the democrats do. why do you think that is? do you see 2014 as an opportunity for your party to correct what happened in 2010 when you had a backlash towards president obama? >> yes, it certainly represents the opportunity. >> will you take advantage of it? >> hopefully, we will. you will have some governors here later today. i think you might want to ask them about it. i think it will be a competitive year. i am sure they will come after me. republicans will come after me. when we think we can pick some up. >> you have mentioned some of your favor governors previously. who is your server republican governor? >> i guess i can say this. you are going to have the governor of tennessee on later. i have a lot of respect for him. maybe part of that is we both barriers. -- were nmayors. i think he has done some important work. to hear him talk about -- here is a guy who had to implement an evaluation system for teachers. he got it done. >> we would like to take some questions over the internet. not working out too well for me on this device. let's do some questions on the audience. anybody have a question they would like to ask the governor of connecticut or federal policy? >> [indiscernible] the desire to have revenue streams coming in. what can you do to encourage the discussion here? >> i think the president is doing the right thing. i think there are people of good will that would like to resolve the issue and there are the people of the united states. specifically the house. i am not holding my breath. i will do everything i can. i hope they will do it on a comprehensive basis. they are unwilling to do it on a comprehensive basis, i hope it will do the common-sense things. when we give a doctorate out of yale or uconn, which to give them a green card. it just makes sense. we are cutting off our nose to spite our face. we do not have the talent we need to grow our economy, yet we're not doing common-sense things. i had a debate over one year ago with a republican congressman from california. he knows we need to do it. they are afraid to have a conversation. >> speaking of federal issues that certainly impacted states, the issue of same-sex marriage. president said he was supportive of the -- >> did -- and then there, done that. we have moved well beyond that. we took a step toward civil unions as an interim step. i am convinced if we had not done that, the supreme court would not have said that we had to do something about marriage. we were out in front of this thing. i think we -- i think the supreme court needed to understand the world would not come to an end if you took this issue on. the lieutenant governor who i get to work with every day, one of our touch points was years ago that several unions came up to be considered by the judiciary committee for the first time in the but out a call for a municipal leaders as to what officeholders to come and testify on their behalf. she was the only statewide to show up in the was the only municipal to show up. it did not pass that year but two years later it passed. i think it emboldened the supreme court to say that marriage discrimination was not acceptable. now, and we have codified that. as soon as i became governor we passed a gender identities of all rights bill. >> this case will be taken up here. but i think i know how scalia will handle it. >> what is your guess? >> not well. >> i think he is forceful. what is his option? >> do you think he will pass it in the congress of the united states today? doma has to be taken up by the supreme court. we have a constitutional right in any other state to have that recognized. you cannot discriminate against the connecticut prison at -- it resident who is married because he did not like that. that is unconstitutional and my opinion. i hope the courts have the guts to say it. if they did not say it, they are throwing out over 200 years of our history. we get to make the rules and our state. you have to honor them and recognize them. marriage is a right to. >> i want to ask you about one of your favorite topics, that is 2016. i assume you want to stay in hartford for four more years. >> yes, i want to stay in hartford. i like the job of governor quite a bit. >> should the next president come from the ranks of governors? >> what are you trying to do to me? i think there are some interesting trends. more mares are getting elected governors. more governors are getting -- more governors are smart enough not to run for senators. i hope it works out for everybody. >> that sounds like you are ruling out a future senatorial run. what's i tried to move municipality and no estate forward and address some of the big issues. i know lots of people who do not think i am good at it. i think i am good at it and comfortable at it. >> one of your colleagues and friends was here this morning who was pretty candid. he said if hillary clinton runs, if she gets an, issue the defacto nominee? >> if she gets an, i am not going to. nor am i going to under any circumstances. i think there are two really big personalities in the room at the moment. the vice president and secretary clinton i think both of them will have to make decisions before the field gets finalized or without the making decisions the field will not get finalized. >> i am just taking the obvious. you do not need me to tell you that both of them are capable of running and both of them will have large amounts of support. we will see what happens. >> you have had interaction with vice president by then. -- biden. earlier than that, to be a governor, he worked with governors on the stimulus in 2009. can you talk about vice president biden and what he is like? >> he is the real thing. he is an outsized personality who speaks his mind and very plan language that everybody can understand it. does it get him in trouble once in awhile? yes. has the serve him well? it obviously has. was he an effective vice- president? i think so. >> you think 73 would not be too old for him to be president? >> i do not think age is the issue. it is whether he wants to do it. he will have to make that decision. it is what the secretary clinton wants to do it. i think we will know who otherwise will or will not put their -- if either of them gets and that it will be a smaller field. if both of them get it, there may only be two. >> a personal privilege, i have been long fascinated by this topic. where is the red sox-yankees invisible line? is it the connecticut river? >> it is down in the new haven area. it is probably in new haven. before we came up, we were talking about pizza. those are dividing lines in new haven. i think the dividing line begins there. north of there you have a majority of people probably red sox fans. south of there, the vast majority are yankee fans. having said that, for the first time in polling two years ago the majority of people in connecticut said they were yankee fans. >> why has that changed, do you think? >> because right minded individuals -- >> here you go. >> my wife is from massachusetts. we are a divided household. >> thank you so much for chatting today. we really appreciate it. [applause] those watching at home and at work, we have gov. scott walker from wisconsin and joining us next. thank you so much. we appreciate it. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] good to see you. you just got governor malloy on the way out. your counterpart from connecticut. is there any common ground you have? what policy issues d.c. eye to eye on? >> i think the idea, let out a number of issues, putting more responsibility in the hands of the states is pretty common ground. there are certain -- i think that is pretty common. what's all of the people in this room know who you are. not just because we all love the badger state and the great cheese from your state but because obviously what took place in madison famously over the issue of public employees and organized labor. i was struck by the story that the ap moved last month from scott bauer who is the correspondent to the capital. he said "scott walker adopting a lower profile." >> i didn't know about that. the issues we have brought up, which is brought up an issue as of late, we have number 100,000 people into the capital. there are lower profile than two years ago. we are pushing forward with reform. we took our budget surplus. we have about half of a billion surplus right now. pour the into income tax cuts. we are pushing reform when it comes to schools and reforming -- we are rewarding public schools and offering a choice. are doing other things in moving people from government dependence. are doing big, bold things. it may not be as high-profile as two years ago. >> the democrats and madison said, he is lower profile because it was to be reelected in 2014 so he is moving away a little bit from the more brass conservatism that he exhibited in the first couple of years. its 2014 undermined at all? >> and our kids, we are doing what we said we would do. we are actually doing what we said we would do. we did it two years ago and we are doing enough. i did out in november and december even before the start of the legislative session, we were creating jobs, developing the workforce, reforming government and in besting an infrastructure. i said, that is the focus of my budget. my hope is that the focus will be that over the next two years and everything else is distractions. these are the vicious people in my state one of me working on. those are the areas i asked the legislature to join me on. >> a couple things happening in washington. the big story these days is the sequester and when it will go into effect. what with the impact be for wisconsin? >> you look at the two different parts. potentially the option for two out there. like other states, a relatively minimal effect -- no big military installation there. it would not be like virginia. or california, other places along port. most of our military are the national guard in the reserve. we have some defense contractors, but they have already made adjustments anticipating this as early as last year. there is not a dramatic impact. my concern and that of many of my fellow governors is, if there is something done as an alternative to that, do no harm. to not do things that will further reduce the increase in our nation's economic recovery. >> you are a small government conservative. this is an opportunity to really pare back the size of our government. you want to see this go into effect? x i think there should be a limited government. i do not like random changes. in the last budget, i invested $1.2 billion more into medicaid. major cuts in terms of what we gave local governments. those local governments and school districts to make up for those budget changes. i think should be more strategic. i do not hate government. i hate the fact that much of our federal government is too large. the things we do, we should do better. >> speaking of medicaid, you made news by turning down the medicaid expansion as part of the affordable care act. something that was driven by politics instead of by progress -- do you want to respond to senator bolan? -- baldwin? >> unlike other governors, unite governors who either did did not take it or governors that did. we did something completely different. fairly novel when it comes to reform. the wall street journal said it should be a national model. we reduced the number of of uninsured people in our state, and i reduce the net number of childless adults on medicaid by over 5000. we take 87,000 people living above poverty today who qualify for medicaid and move them into the free market, the regular market system, or the exchanges. for which those living just above poverty can now qualify for and insurance policy at $19 for a premium. >> it is still obamacare, because the exchanges were created by -- >> they are there. i would much rather have people in an area that moves toward the marketplace. here is the interesting add-on to that. there are 82,000 people who are not currently covered who are living in poverty today that i do cover. who were camped off by my predecessor. i have made medicaid program -- the system covers what it is supposed to. people living in poverty. every single person in my state will be covered under medicaid. those living above poverty will be put on a path for market exchanges to move themselves. why that is unique, i did this with food stamps and unemployment compensation, i firmly believe we need to move from a dependency and lifetime government dependence to independence. true independence, if you will. i think that is better off for people long-term. >> your neighbor across the lake, governor snyder in michigan, recently put in place a law, a right to work bill. landmark news in the state. your state, home of a long progressive tradition -- [indiscernible] >> week essentially did it last time. we did it for public-sector employees. >> today if you are public employees, you do not have to pay dues. you do not have to be in a union. you have a freedom to choose. for a teacher in milwaukee, that means going forward, he or she does not have to pay up to $1400 in state and local dues. that is their choice. conversely, local governments can also then choose to ask people to pay for things like their healthcare competitions -- contributions. much less than what the average non-public-sector employee is paying in the state of wisconsin. we have that for the public sector. we do not need to be that competitive -- our competition, michigan and indiana where they passed a year ago, we have illinois and minnesota. we are not going down that path. illinois raised taxes. minnesota in -- proposed a tax increase. i am cutting taxes. >> the governor before you talked about the issue of guns, gun control is been a hot topic. you have a state with a hunting tradition, you have democrats in your state who are program as well as republicans. is there any common ground of the gun issue here in the months ahead? >> if you look at the tragedies in connecticut, wisconsin, colorado, -- there are two in my state. what is the common denominator? similar to a month or so ago when we had someone come to our state capital looking for me with a backpack full of molotov talk tales. -- cocktails. cases of mental illness. i put the largest investment in 30 years to provide for mental health services statewide, almost $30 million. it is common denominator's, it is not just a firearm. it goes all the way back to oklahoma city. it is chronically untreated mental illness. our services go beyond that. you look at the reaction from the strategies, either gun control or -- a false sense of security. the real issue is people who have not been treated, in many cases, known to family and friends, but have not received the treatment they need to not get into extreme situations. >> you do not go over the nra line, putting armed guards and schools? >> just banning a certain firearm would not stop that. there are multiple ways to get it. just arming a bunch of people would not do that, either. someone could be armed on the other side of the school, that does not protect. none of these are 100% full proof. the only risk, get up with the problem is. stop before people even get to that point. that is the one denominator -- i remember before we had the tragedy at the sikh temple, there was a good job done in reacting to what happened in aurora. families seeking to protect and try to heal, then trying -- ultimately what you have to do is find out what could have been done to prevent this. it is not purely a political solution. >> the concessive in washington, if anything gets done, some kind of expanded background checks. could you support that? >> and has to be done at the national level. jumping all over the place, we have successful background checks and wisconsin, felons for people who have been committed for mental disease issues in the past. so protecting the rights of law- abiding citizens, that is paramount. >> i want to talk to you about some stories i read, steve pays -- hayes, spent the evening of the state of the union speech with you at the governor's mansion, watching on your oversized hd television in madison, watching the speech with scott walker or it sort of a thing to your reaction of what the president was saying. you did have some praise for a couple of passages that the president had in his speech. one of those was on immigration area do you said it was "not half bad." >> more than anything, i want to see it fix the immigration system. whether you are coming from mexico, canada, germany, anywhere else around the globe, you have a broken system and that is indicative of a government not being able to handle legal immigration. i can appear, i got off, the door opened -- if you are microsoft, and a lot of tech companies across the country, one of their biggest challenges is that you cannot get enough high skilled, highly trained individuals. one of the biggest frustrations is not having enough work visas to allow people from around the globe to come in. it is not unique to microsoft, a lot of other companies out there. it is a broken system. if somebody wants to come live the american dream and work hard, whether it is a graduate student or someone else that comes in, we should have a system that works. we spend too much time in washington talking about ways to deal with people who have come in who did not come in legally. the real problem here is that we do not have a way for people who legally want to come in. the vast majority from many countries want to come here for all the right reasons, want to och live the american dream, more than anything, they want to live -- if you work hard, and little bit of self- determination, you can pass on better lives for your children and grandchildren. we should welcome those people with open arms. >> your experience as an executive of walton county with hispanic voters in your county. he did well with them. had he replicate that on the national level with republicans question mark >> be relevant. i won three times in a county that never elect a republican. the last time i did very well, high concentrations of hispanic voters. i work very hard with small businesses in my community, just as i do as governor now. a tremendous number of the latino voters in my jurisdiction or entrepreneurs, small business owners, people who were -- came here and wanted to live the american dream. that encouraged and make a difference. milwaukee, i had been a long time advocate of school choice. i wanted to improve public schools. both my kids went to public schools. in places like milwaukee, were some schools failed to live up to expectations, i want to make sure that every parent has a choice. a lot of hispanic residents having a viable catholic school as an option is a very compelling issue. i stood for that when others stood to take that away from them, that was a compelling issue. >> senator rubio says that immigration is a gateway issue for his voters. -- hispanic voters. they cannot consider a republican platform on other issues because they cannot get past the immigration issue. hearing governor romney say self deport during the primary, some of the rhetoric from your side, is the party needs to get an immigration bill done to get a clean slate with hispanic voters in 2016? >> i think the bigger issue is the country needs to deal with it, not just republicans. it is an issue i hear all the time. i hear it from farmers. particularly in the dairy industry. we just need to deal with this. we are a country of immigrants, but also laws. we have to have a way that we welcome people who want to come to america for the right reasons under the right circumstances, but we need to find a legal path to make that possible. elliptically, if the reason to do it is because it is good for america, as a republican, i introduced the other night a young man who is 24, just came back from spending almost a year in afghanistan, one of my national guard units and wisconsin -- his parents came when he was a baby from mexico to california. they moved to wisconsin when he was 11. on november 2 last year, he just got his citizenship. he took his oath in afghanistan. the soldiers helped him with transportation for it. i tell you that because his parents brought him and his brothers to america because they knew the benefits of being an american citizen. the opportunity that comes with it. as a republican, i think we have a compelling story whether it is someone like that or from any country, the people come to america are risk takers. they are willing to risk for their children and grandchildren and live the american dream to have a prosperity. they did not come to become dependent on the government. become dependent on the government. they did not say they want to come for the great benefits. they say, that is where i get my freedom. that is a pretty amazing message. we are not about more government dependence. we are about empowering you to control your destiny. >> your friend paul ryan has been supportive of the bipartisan approach in the senate on immigration reform, which it would include some kind of probationary status where the illegal immigrants would immediately be able to remain in the country. do you support that? >> there has got to be some way. certainly you have to protect, my brother, his wife, his mother-in-law and grandmother both immigrated illegally. a minimum for people waiting to come in legally, they have to get an first, that they have legal status first. they have been playing by the rules. after that, set of a process where you enable google to come in and have a legal pathway to do it. that is something we have to embrace. there are some nuances moving forward. you have got to find a way to say people in line right now have first preference. then make it legally possible to move forward. >> twitter question -- do you believe that citizens united, the court case, has been good for america? >> it does not matter what i think, i am not in the supreme court. >> it affects you politically. >> what of the big mistakes is, the law in wisconsin predated the court decision in terms of having no limits on campaign contributions. it did not impact one way or the other. >> do you think the impact of unlimited money has been good or bad for the body politic? >> more transparency is good. campaign-finance reform, everybody thinks they have a great solution. it is like squeezing a water balloon. the federal system akin to the presidential election is great, it was publicly financed and transparent. howard dean was the first one to break it. that was the great role model of public financing. it did not work. we need more accountability in terms of greater transparency. if you know where money is coming from to support candidates, in my case that we listed the dollar amount. $37 million, 70% of that was $50 or less. not only people from wisconsin, but people from across all the states who want to help this guy. >> the idea of changing how wisconsin allocates its electoral votes by congressional district -- has that faded away? >> any of these things are interesting to look at. in my state's case, in 2000, 24, and again this year, it was viewed as a battleground state. anything that would take away our status, i would not be interested. i think it is good for my voters. particularly going into 2016, an open race, there will be a lot of candidates coming to wisconsin who would otherwise, if we did it a different way, would only be coming to wisconsin to raise money instead of talking to voters. talking to voters is a good thing. >> politics more broadly here for a minute -- looking towards 2014 and ultimately 2016, one of the sentences in this piece where he had the speech watch party with you, i was sad to read that you did not have bratwurst. >> the week after my recall election, to show what a good guy i am, i have lawmakers of both parties and staff over, and i cooked iraq -- cooked brats in the backyard. critics he writes, water may be the closest thing to the anti- obama that exist at a state capitol today. high praise, i assume. >> you might have a republican primary in 2016. do you want to run for president? >> i want to be governor. i had to work hard to be governor of wisconsin. i got even more votes the second time. a lot of people were tied for me to be governor, i need to be focused on that. québec's you have the best job -- >> you have the best job in the world. are we going to see you speaking at any league and reagan dinners -- lincoln-reagan dinners? >> i lived in iowa. i lived there from 1971-1977. lane field, iowa. my representative was chuck grassley. >> his grandson is now in the statehouse. you obviously do not want to talk about your white house ambitions just yet, which is fine. i am happy to have you make news today if you would like. more broadly about the party, you were at times a pretty candid critic about governor romney's campaign. more often than they liked. and senator mccain's campaign took more than its share of criticism. is the problem just a candidate problem? is it a packaging issue? >> i think the core sense of what our principles are for, what we stand for, is a compelling message. i just think we need to do better in a couple of key areas. we need to be more optimistic. it is not enough to hold a referendum on the opposition. you need a viable tentative -- alternative. there are 30 states today with republican governors. for other states where there are republicans elected state letters governors, we offered a plan for how to fix things. we did not just blame somebody. i just do not think the debate nationally was relevant. in my own state, i believe the difference between the president and i, many of the people who are supporters of the president measure success in government i how many people are dependent on government rated i just do not think that is a measure of success. the other big thing is, we need to show that we have the courage to act on those beliefs. voters look at candidates in both parties and say, that is nice, but they do not have the courage to act on those beliefs to follow through on that. some discerning democrats said, i do not agree with everything, but i like the fact that he has the courage to say them. there are obama/scott walker supporters. i do not agree with everything he's done, but there are voters who look at what he did, look at what i did, and say, at least there are people who follow up on their beliefs. people in times of crisis are hungry for leadership. >> let me ask you about 2016, less on your own plan, but should the next president come from the ranks of the governors? >> absolutely. up until the last election, four years ago, the last time we elected someone who is not a governor or vice president or president for reelection was 1960. every other president has been a governor, vice president or resident. it makes sense. the american people want someone who has been tested. the governor is a chief executive, the buck stops with you. a lot of great governors -- jeb bush had some very nice things to say about you over the years. education policy is one area you both feel passionately about. if abner bush ran for president, would that be a hillary like impact in terms of scaring people away? >> it would have an impact. look at his two terms as a werner -- governor. he balances budget without raising taxes. he put in place major education reform that a lot of other governors try to replicate. he has a great record of success. in the past, if you took your finger and covered his last name and just talked about jeb, a lot of us would talk about him running for president. he is still a bush. no doubt about it. a number of names on either side of the aisle will say, is it time to use names from the past earnings going forward? -- or names going forward? >> if hillary does run, it looks pretty formidable. can you win back the white house of hillary clinton is a nominee? >> sure. she is formidable, -- >> she is popular. >> whoever is the nominee would have to make the case of, do we want policies of the past or something fresh? >> that is the message. >> if you like, do not stop thinking about tomorrow is when bill clinton was talking about with fleetwood mac. maybe it is time to put somebody new in. >> folder you today? >> i am 45. >> you will be 47. hillary clinton will be about 70 years old. big difference. >> bobby jindal is in his 40's. a great speech last month from kissinger who can still look for a great punchline. we were so impressed. i said to the person sitting next to me, he realized that bobby jindal and i combined are still younger and henry kissinger. >> one thing i was struck by during the campaign, governor romney was a transitional figure between an older generation, baby boomers generation and the 40 somethings. they increasingly dominate gop politics. one of those figures as paul ryan. you talk to him a lot. is his future in the house or do you think he wants to make another run? >> paul is not driven by ambition. he is courageous and sincere. up until he was a nominee for vice president, even democrats in the city would acknowledge that overwhelmingly. he will go to where he thinks he can be most useful. if that means there is a void and he thinks he needs to run for president, he will do that. he will go to the spot he thinks it makes most sense for him to help her it >> where is the most useful right now? >> right now, clearly the house. he is exceptionally optimistic and relevant and certainly courageous. whether you agree with him or not, he is exceptionally courageous. there is a powerful thing. we were at a speech a week ago in honor of reagan's birth day with him and i and bobby, our generation is one of the first of these republican ages of politicians and nationally known positions where we invoke reagan, not because it is politically convenient, we invoke reagan because reagan was my aunt's oration. younger than you are here. >> jfk type figure. >> it is not just what men may or republican or conservative, optimistic for public service. there was something good you could do for the people he elected to serve. he was an inspirational focus point for people like paul and i. we were kids, young men and women when president reagan piqued our interest. >> a lot of people think john boehner will retire in 2014. do you think paul ryan would be a good speaker of the house? >> he would be an exceptional leader, whatever he might be. paul ryan does great things. >> i am getting the hook. scott walker, thank you for being here. [applause] >> you will tag team out with a bill right now. notice to sue proved quick burst to see you. -- nice to see you. >> nice to see you. we are here in washington, governor sam brownback from kansas who is trying to make the trek from topeka. the weather has slowed him down. we will finish with you, governor. >> they have 10 inches of snow that had them. >> he has an excused absence. we will finish with you today. thank you for joining us. i have been talking to the other governors, the same issue. the federal impact of the states and what is happening in the states. heading towards march 1 is the sequester, automatic edger cuts will go into effect. you have fort campbell straddling your state areas the contract is around the state. that would be a severe issue. >> oak ridge and everything around, i just let the department of energy before i came here. one of the things that was news to me. --was how it works. every program. cleanup of a mercury problem that we have there or security issues, back in july we had a security breach. all of that gets cut. governors looking at the impact of our budget. i think that is $110 million or so. >> what would you prefer to see happened for march 1? >> obviously i would love to see the beginnings of a real deal that would address the long-term fiscal situation that involves, unlike the last time, back in january, little spending cuts. >> you have been busy in nashville since you are elected in 2010 about what you have been up to. you do not do a lot of tv or come to washington to much. we are not offended. you have better food in tennessee. talk to us for a minute about what you have been doing in nashville and what you have accomplished and the impact on the people of your state. >> budget issues about which we all deal with as governors. we have to be pragmatic and practical there. all of us that came in in 2010, all of the federal money from the stimulus when it went away we had to deal with that. we are increasing our savings. after this, about $200 million back in. we cut taxes on everything from groceries to inheritance tax. doing away with the gift tax. and most importantly, what we have not done in tennessee that a lot of other states have done, we have not cut k-12 education. last year we had the second- largest increase. we are going to keep focusing on those things we think are critical. >> one of those things i do not think you have decided on is whether or not to accept the medicare expansion. that has been in headlines the past few days. governor from florida is accepting the money. are you going to accept? >> we really have not decided yet. we commented to do our homework areas the impact on the state budget, a huge impact whether we expand or not. we are doing the math for the next 10 years. number two, the impact on the population that will be covered. it is logical to think that if you have coverage you will do a better job with preventative care. we have companies i can go back and track that. if you are covered, here is what it means to you. and third is the impact on healthcare providers. we are a big healthcare town. we have a lot of rural hospitals struggling. what is the real impact? legally, -- the supreme court says you do not ever have to decide. even though we would not have to put money in the budget because we would be accepting federal money and get approval, we told legislators we do not decide with them -- we really have the next four weeks or so. >> are you leaning a certain way? >> we have not come to that conclusion. this is a big decision. there is a lot of interest and smoke around whether to run the exchange are not. i do not know if that decision made a difference, this one does. >> you recently decided not to set up a healthcare exchange, why? >> we did not feel like hhs was really prepared in terms of the partnership model for us to do it for you and if you are pulling off something that complex, it might be easier to have one cook in the kitchen when there is so much left to be worked out. we started with the assumption that we would do it. we think we can do it better than they can. then we thought, maybe it is best early to let them do it. >> i talked to governor walker about the immigration issue. do you want is a comprehensive immigration reform bill signed by president obama? >> i actually would. i think it is an economic development issue. we need more folks with the right background and training of all types. i think is one of those issues that can be solved. there is a lot of things that we do not know how to come to a conclusion. this seems like one we can solve areas there are some really tough issues. my sense is, it is one of the problems we can solve. >> education is something you have been very engaged on. is that a way that republicans can become relevant again? broken voters fled to the democratic party in the last two elections. >> we claim relevance, we are a pretty red state areas romney won and al gore lost in his home state. that being said, it is an issue that everybody feels and understands. they understand we are behind other countries. we have to compete. end of the day, here is what we can do. we are going to decide on if we bring our employees here, will they have great education? >> some have relocated. had to have been happy with tennessee schools? >> recently. and both or only north american plant in chattanooga. nissan stars american headquarters. the first and last question they ask. two things. they need a trained work force. full slug and kept saying, we kept waiting for all this fake tennessee nice to wear off -- [laughter]they could not believe the quality of life for hospitality. but they wanted the engineers and other trained workers. >> questions online, i assume this is a disinterested question, but can't guarantee. >> would you oppose an internet sales tax? >> no, i'm actually -- when you buy something on the internet, that tax is due. it is not collected by the retailer. i think it is a disservice. >> brick-and-mortar stores. >> not just that. alkyl the government lives up property tax. -- local government lives on property tax. i used to be in an internet retail business. i understand the argument there. to me it is a basic issue of fairness. >> we were joking about your relatively low national profile. i did want to ask you about that. politics, governors, mayors, become so nationalized, but you are not somebody that seeks to the. you seem pretty content in tennessee. do you have any national ambitions? >> everybody tells you know, right? -- no, right? the answer is, i really don't. there are 10 people who would be better than i would. my wife said, no, there are 20. >> one of your friends told my colleague, the former mayor of knoxville, victor ashe, a prominent republican, he said -- he certainly is someone who 2016 to be considered as a running mate for somebody. would you be on a ticket for somebody? >> i can honestly tell you i have zero plans. i love my job. i did not run for governor thinking that. >> your party going forward, the democrats lost three consecutive residential elections and then finally bill clinton and some southerners got them on a more centrist posture. do you think your party needs something akin to what the doc did for democrats in the 1980's? >> i don't know if i would say that. what our party needs is somebody that can show proven result. i would stand by governors because they have to do that all the time. we have to show that we understand the things that people do care about. one of the differences i have learned being governor and i campaigned for almost two years to get this job, people and political environments yell the loudest, it is not necessarily what the person at the rotary club where the mother cares about. >> governor romney was an accomplished politician. health care bill in massachusetts, he turned her on the select city he had a record of results. president obama when a commanding reelection victory. >> was a policy and philosophy that one are was it a better operation? i just wrote your chair. i hope i don't get fined. [laughter] budget cuts. tennessee and north carolina, neighbors. north carolina is a little more liberal. romney won tennessee by 17, and through -- north carolina was close. my argument would be, you see the impact that happens. >> that is democracy. >> the demographic differences are not 14 and 15 point. >> the problem you think you had was a tactical issue. >> i do not think we did a good job explaining ourselves. obama had the -- he was able to say, if you just tax rich people, problem solved. we all know that is not true. taxing rich people will not solve all of our problems. the republican party was not willing to give any ground. we lost the argument. >> you have seem to navigate a really conservative base, and a more centrist -- you're obviously one in 2010 and are in good shape for 2014. how can the republican party pull off that acts nationally? they keep the conservative base happy, that is culturally conservative on issues like gay marriage and abortion. >> the broad middle of the country wants but the glenn tennessee one, or indiana or wisconsin. they want somebody that can solve the problems and provide a better future outlook. i think the one message we have not gotten is, we are not doing any favors by continuing to pass the debt down. if you look at unemployment, directly related to business investment. somehow the idea is if we pay more in taxes and the government's poems more than the economy will do better. the connection is with investment. >> on me ask you about the face of the republican party. overwhelmingly supported by white voters. you are a southern governor and obviously see the parties around racial lines. is it a healthy thing to have the democratic arty in the south as the block party -- party in the south as the black party? >> we have to do better with minority voters. it is appealing to -- there are a couple of things. saying we will campaign for every vote. we did relatively well in a historic democrat district in 2010. we did not blow them out of the water, but did utter them the average republican by engaging the community. we did not win those counties, but it was closer than people thought areas actively engaging and saying here is why we believe these things. >> you mentioned this briefly, but i wanted you draw you out. you want to see the next president come from the ranks of governors. >> i would not limited to that. i know people that serve up your that i think would be terrific. >> like who? >> [laughter][applause]there is a long list. i will get a text when i walk out. >> you have your plaid shirt so? >> i still have it. one of my first local jobs was putting up yard signs for lamarr. hope you would give me a bigger job this time. >> what is the advantage of having a governor as candidate/president? >> if you look up to washington, there has not been a budget proposed to solve the problem. like it or not, you have to do it. one of the arguments i would make, if you look at democrat mayors, they all tend to become a little bit more pragmatic and office. you might say the same thing about republicans. these offices force you to solve problems. >> a question from twitter -- how do we keep more tech in the united states? >> we work together -- work hard and put together packets, and i asked how they decided to come here. they said, we just wanted to live here. if you look at the strong pockets of tech rose, it is about quality of life. -- tech growth, it is about wquality of life. >> the democratic party has faded in the south in recent years. why? >> tennessee joined the confederacy, the last is exceeded and the first back in. -- the last two seceded and the first back in. andrew johnson, after lincoln was assassinated, the western part of the state was democrat. over time, that has changed. some of those democrats in western tennessee have realized, i think a lot more like the republicans do even though my great great grandfather was a democrat. >> the national realignment has come to tennessee? >> in that case, it really has. if you look, some of those folks voted republican in national elections before they voted for republican -- >> even though it has grown more conservative, the top three elected officials in your state, your self, and the senators, are called center- right republicans. how do you do that? >> we will see. we would love not to have a primary from the right. i have had contested elections every time. i think it should be more fun not to have one. i do not know yet. i would argue, it is a question of equality. they both faced very competitive primaries. i try to stay away from labels. they both faced competitive primaries and one -- won. >> it helps not to have a runoff. >> that is a big difference. intimacy we don't. -- in tennessee we don't. i did not get 50% and bob did not, but close enough. >> what is the lesson that you offer for your party nationally in terms of trying to get results? do you all talk pretty often? >> i talked to both of them today. bob called me about a company we are recruiting. bob and my brother were college roommates. and lamarr and i, i have known him since he ran for governor in 1974. lamarr was a governor, he was helpful. if you are out recruiting people it is very helpful to have your u.s. senators weigh in. >> what is the lesson -- >> to talk to everybody. if you look at the way all three of us have campaigns -- >> famous for that when he was governor, going into urban communities read >> literally walked across the state. i was too disconnected. he said start in the upper northeast corner of tennessee and walked to memphis. he did not do it straight. as he went straight across, it would be about 450 miles. upper northeast tennessee, you are closer to canada and memphis. -- than memphis. his point was, he would talk to everyone. it has been a good lesson. number one, campaign everywhere and do not say, those aren't our voters. number two, talk about what you would do, practically. it is a very red state, but a pretty practical states. and varied. it is -- memphis is different from knoxville or chattanooga. to be governor, you had to convince the people in west tennessee that you are from the same world and cared about their issues. i married an memphis girl, it helped. she gave good testimony for me. i do not know if there is anything that surprised me. every place in the state feels like everybody else is getting a better deal than they are. being mayor, everybody said, if you did for use knoxville what you did for west as mayor that goes away. >> tennessee, very programs. even democrats they're very supportive of gun rights. is there any gun controls legislation nationally you could be supportive of? background checks, for example. >> i do think there is a -- my view would be this. i am a data-driven person. when crimes are committed, let's go back and look at who did it, where they got their firearms and trace it that way, then go back and determine if there is policy that should come from that. right now, the whole debate, there is not very much discussion about where to that weapon come from? and what could we have done differently? >> it seems like in washington, if there is a bill passed, increasingly likely that it will be a universal background check areas would you support that? >> it depends on how it works. i would come back to the same thing. universal background checks in light of what the data is showing us about where the problem is coming from. >> before you are in politics, you were in business. can you talk about your experience working in business and formed approach to governance? >> number one, business is just like government. it is all about getting great people. the president did not sit down with his cabinet secretaries, he might not see them. i have 22 agency had -- heads. by the state constitution, those 22 people have to work for me. you had better hire great people. i see them every week or week and a half area in terms of having to sit down and face the review, once a month. that is a long time. you had better have great people. number two, you had better understand the numbers. nice in the numbers of government. it is all about deciding what you want to do. in a business, everybody has a clear job. trying to sell more twinkies, whatever it is. in government there are so many different missions, it is hard to delineate. you should say here is why i am here. >> when you pick up the phone and want to get a message to president obama, who you talk to in the white house? >> i talked to washington through two or three agencies. i probably talk to arnie duncan once a month. right now, hhs is a big issue. i would talk to the secretary while we are up here. i have not had to duck to the president. -- talk to the president. he called to ask your food be part of an education event -- if we would be part of an education event. vice president biden always offers a cell phone if we needed. >> he was the sheriff of the stimulus if i recall. did you have some encounters with him? >> we were seeing the last of that. >> time for one last question. the clock is ticking down. a point of personal privilege, speaking of joe biden, and hardball for you. where is the best barbecue for tennessee? >> that is the hardest question you have asked me. if i answer, i am toast. memphis is the barbecue center of the south. i will go with memphis. >> a place? >> i can go there. -- can't go there. >> is the university of tennessee going to be confounded of -- competitive again? >> i hope so. it has got to be good, it is a big operation. the thing would help popularity like a few more wins. >> thank you ray much. -- very much. [applause] >> that concludes our even. -- event. thank you very much for being here. >> the house returns live at 5:00 p.m. pirie it feel armstrong was the first man to walk on a new. general speeches will take place as 6:30 p.m. eastern. at 8:00, and democrats plan an hour-long speech sponsored by the congressional black caucus. later, work will begin on a bill that realizes the violence against women act. the measure has already been passed by the senate. follow the house alive when members return at 5:00 p.m. eastern. a live look at the u.s. capitol where in about 15 minutes house speaker john boehner and other leaders will hold a briefing with reporters. we expect the house agenda and sequestration to be discussed. we will bring that you like a 4:00 p.m. eastern here on c- span. right now, more about those budget cuts with janet napolitano. we will ship as much of this as we can. >> thank you. i appreciate the opportunity. dhs has a very broad mission. we secure the aviation sector. we screen 2 million air traffic people a day. we facilitate legitimate travel and trade. last year our officers process more than 350 billion people. we enforce the immigration laws. we've partnered with the private sector to protect infrastructure. we worked with state and local communities to respond for disasters of all types by hurricane sandy. the automatic budget reduction mandated by sequestration would be disruptive to our economy. it would negatively affect the readiness of the men and women on our front line. it would undermine the significant progress we have 10 years. the past tenier it would have serious consequences to the flow of trade and travel at our nation's ports of entry. we will have to begin to for low -- furlough two officers to staff this. that our busiest airports like newark and jfk, the peak wait times which can reach over two hours could easily grow to four hours or more. such delays will cause thousands in this passengers -- missed passenger connection. reductions in overtime will increase domestic passenger weight times. on the southwest border the land force could face waits of up to five hours. at our seaports, this would increase up to five days, resulting in increased cost to the trade in reduced availability of consumer goods and raw materials. it affects local cross border communities. at our terminals, process times the increase up to six hours causing passengers to miss connecting flights. it will have serious constant -- consequences. it decreases the number hours are border patrol has to use. the coast guard will reduce the presence in the arctic by a third. we will curtail our operations by more than 25%. under sequestration immigration and customs enforcement is also part in the chest and will be forced to not maintain the 34,000 detention beds as required by congress. in terms of our nation's disaster preparedness it would reduce the disaster relief fund by nearly $1 billion. it would potentially affect survivors recovering from hurricane sandy. homeland's security grant reduced hisld be read the li lowest level in seven years. let me close by saying this. terrorism and the need to respond and recover from natural disasters to not diminish because of budget cuts. we do not have the luxury of making significant reductions without significant impacts. we will work to preserve our front-line priorities as best we can. no amount of planning can mitigate the negative effects. as we approach the first of march, i join with all my other colleagues and with the governors to ask congress to prevent sequestration in order to maintain the resiliency of the country. thank you. >> you were talking about reduced hours of border control. are you saying the nation will be less secure at the border? >> no. what we are going to have to do at the ports of entry, we're going to have to continue to check for contraband and potential terrorism. the procedures will be the same. we will have fewer people able to do them. the lines will get longer. between the ports, we will see a reduction of border control resources. it is almost an out of body experience. last macau was testifying in congress before the judiciary committee -- wiki i was testifying in congress before the judiciary committee. i was thing as what are we doing to strengthen border security. the very next day the appropriations committee said your role in all that to sequestration. >> if 3 -- if you reduce the number for control agents even say it does affect our ability to keep out illegal migrants trying to enter the country. >> you painted a very dour picture. tourism does not wait for this kind of legislative roadblocks. with all the capability that you have, how could the country not face a greater threat? >> in this fiscal environment where we go to possible shutdowns and all the rest, always lacking a budget and regular order so we can manage and plan. we'll always put a priority on maintaining the safety of the american people. it will require the impact people will see. you will not see an immediate shutdown. it will accrue over the next few weeks. lines, procedures and we times will get longer. -- and wait times will get a logger. will have to start getting through the airport earlier. if you're trying to make a connecting flight you have to bring cargo. you're going to have to prepares for some very long lines. >> what about the threat of a ttacks? >> no. always be -- there will always be a threat. >> is this one month or two months or three months? >> it is not all about furloughs. this start immediately. this will be accruing over the next few weeks. if you heard secretary lahood talking about the effect on the faa, between the effect on the ffa and being tsa, you have a perfect storm in terms of the ability to move around the country. >> mean they will get worse and worse and worse? >> it will keep growing. >> i have heard different answers. is the country going to be last requested after sequestration? -- less safe after sequestration? >> i do not think we can maintain the same level of security with sequester them without sequester. as i was mentioning earlier if you have 5000 your border patrol hours are agents, that has a real impact. >> there will be more coming in. there's a greater threat to terrorists. >> we spent the last four years with the congress putting record amounts. i am from new mexico originally. i have worked that border my whole life. that border is as secure it has been in the last two decades. it does not mean we do not have more to do. it has been an unprecedented effort. because of a budget impasse you have to begin to look at rolling back those agents and slowing hiring in getting rid of overtime which we lose a lot between the ports of entry. that will have a real impact. >> if you months ago the governor of louisiana accused the president of trying to scare people. can you say for the record that you are not here trying to scare people? what you're saying has to happen is a necessity. >> i am not here to scare people. i am here to inform and to let people began to plan. they're going to see this in their daily lives. they're going to have to adjust and make their arrangements accordingly. it will not be like a shutdown. all i can say is these are the effects that will accrue. please do not feel at the customs officer or the tso officer because the lines are long. the lines are going to start to lengthen in some dramatic ways. >> what he greater than kept3% without having -- cut 3% without having these devastating impacts/ >> that is the not -- that is not the way sequester works. it is a count by count by count. you do not take $85 billion out of the economy over six months and not expect to see real impact. we're personnel heavy. we are making sure it is flowing when it needs it. these are the kinds of things people need to see. the purpose is to make very clear what these are likely to be unless and until congress resolve's the sequester. >> the total number of dollars that will be taken from your department as a result? result ? >> -- we will give the total number. it keeps changing. the reason i'm fluctuating is because it was 6% last week. >> in real dollars that is roughly? >> billions. >> are there other places where you could cut back in the billions of dollars and find the cuts necessary the republicans insist? >> we began in 2009 finding places where we could cut and avoid costs to streamline our efforts as much as we can. we had employees involved with this. they are the places where we can save best. we of our identified over $4 billion and those kinds of cuts. we are constantly working, looking to see how we can efficiently carry out all the different missions that are located. we have the billions already. >> there are 4 billion more ?ha >> we're always looking for cuts. these are places where we can perhaps see some of the left over equipment and put into use for some of our missions. we continue to have involving terrorist threats that do not go away. we're dealing with the emerging cyber security threat. we have huge responsibilities under that which are somewhat new. mother nature does not go away because of a budget cycle. >> there would be other places for you to cut. >> just a big broad brush that treats everything as if it is equivalent. there is no prioritization, planning, or management associated with it. people don't want to be less safe or secure, they want to think that we are securing the borders that they want to believe we are enforcing immigration laws. if there is a disaster, there could be an effective response. and for us to be able to provide that from the government, with those expectations, where that sequester really hits, how do we do that if you have a cut that says you have to reduce hours? you have to reduce overtime here and you can't pay for this over there. that is what we are doing with it. >> if the sequester last of few weeks or months, are there long- term consequences that will remain? or is all the damage your describing damage that can be quickly undone? >> it is hard to say because you have to see what is going to happen. we are doing our very best to minimize the impacts of sequester. i'm supposed to have 34,000 detention beds for immigration. we want to maintain border patrol agents. i have to be able to pay their salaries and we have to have overtime because we already have a shortage of officers. i heard a lot from the mayor and others. and from the cruise industry about their weight times. >> you can see all of her remarks on our web site. now going to capitol hill where we can hear from republicans. >> the afternoon, everyone. we have four days until the president's sequester takes effect. if he and the senate democrats do not come up with a plan to replace these cuts with smarter cuts and reforms, it seems that the president is more interested in doing a campaign rally rather than sitting down with the senate and coming up with a plan. the president is traveling to newport news, va., 180 miles from washington d.c. hold another rally instead of traveling a mile and a half and sitting down to harry reid and coming up with a plan to, to replace these cuts with smarter reforms and smarter approaches. over the last 10 months, the republicans have been working and we have passed two bills to replace these cuts. we need the president to stop campaigning for higher taxes and come back to washington d.c. and the lead. dodge the president is more interested in holding a campaign rally and urging the senate democrats to actually pass the plan. we know there are smarter ways to cut spending and continued to grow our economy. that is why republicans have acted to replace the sequester with what we would argue are smarter cuts. the president says we have to have another tax increase to avoid the sequestered. you got your tax increase. it is time to cut spending in washington. instead of using our military men and women as campaign props, begin to address our problems. the house has acted twice and we should not have to act a third time before the senate begins to do their work. >> we heard the president said last week that he was going to be forced to let criminals loose on the street because of sequestration if he did not get another tax hike. we are hearing discussions from the secretary of all land security that we will have to sacrifice security to keep our country safe. this is a false choice. the president has been engaging in this rhetoric. there is a smarter and better way to go about trying to achieve the reductions in spending so we can get control over spending. in the house, we even included measures that the president has proposed in his own budget. but the president won't support his own measures unless there is a tax increase. the president ought to stop campaigning and come back to the table and work with us. we care about what happens in this economy. we have offered alternatives and solutions. as she said, the president is campaigning and we are very concerned about the impact as we are on all states. and there's a way to affect the right changes and reforms so we can avoid that. and we must set aside this false choice the president is offering. >> as the other leaders have said, the only idea to solve the problem is to take more from a hard-working taxpayers. let's put this into perspective, $85 billion. we borrow more than the one trillion dollars. we borrow roughly $85 billion every 28 days. we're looking to do is cut less than what we borrow in one month. not what we spend, but what we borrow. this is a time to look for someone that will lead and work with us because we will work to solve the american's problems. >> $29 billion in agricultural spending cuts, is that something you might be interested in? >> it would be an option, it would be some place to start. >> no negotiations are going forward right now. is it your estimation it will take effect? >> hope springs eternal. the president can work with seven democrats that have a majority of the senate to move a bill. it is time for them and act. i have made this clear for months now and we have seen nothing. >> b&l how many jobs will be lost as a result? >> if we don't solve the spending problem, there will be tens of millions of jobs that won't happen because of the debt load that is being laid on the backs of our kids and grandkids. i came to save the american dream. this president's addiction the spending is threatening our future. thanks. gosh we will have more from capitol hill when the house comes back at 5:00 eastern. president obama spoke to u.s. governors at the white house. >> we should be asking ourselves three questions every day. how do we make america a magnet for good jobs? how do we equip our people to get those jobs? and how we make sure that the hard work pays off? governors, you are the ones on the ground, seeing firsthand every single day what works and what does not. that is what makes you indispensable. you ran for office to do everything you could to make folks lives better. the last thing you want to see is washington get in the way of progress. unfortunately, in four days, congress is poised to allow a series of arbitrary and automatic budget cuts kick in that will slow our economy and eliminate good jobs, leaving a lot of folks pretty thin the stretched, scrambling to figure out what to do. this morning, you received a report on how these cuts will harm middle-class families. thousands of teachers and educators will be laid off. tens of thousands of parents will have to deal with finding child care for our future. americans will lose access to primary care and preventive care. tomorrow, i will be in virginia where workers should be repairing ships and a carrier sits idle when it should be deployed to the persian gulf. these impacts will not all be felt on day one. but rest assured the uncertainty is already having an effect. companies are preparing layoff notices and families are preparing to cut back on expenses. the bigger the impact will become. while you are in town, i hope you speak with your congressional delegation and remind them at exactly what is at stake, and to is at risk. these cuts do not have happened. congress can turn them off anytime with a little bit of action. democrats like me need to have knowledge that we will make modest reforms in medicare if we want the program there for future generations and who want to maintain our ability to invest in things like education, research, and infrastructure. i have made that commitment reflected in proposals i made last year and will be reflected in my budget. i stand by those commitments to make those reforms for smart spending cuts. we also need republicans to adopt the same approach for tax reform that the speaker championed just a few months ago. nobody's rates would go up, but we would be able to reduce the deficit by making some tough, smart, spending cuts, and getting rid of wasteful tax loopholes that benefit the well off. i know that some folks think that compromise is a bad word. they figure they will pay a higher price at the polls for working with the other side then they will for standing still and engaging in obstructionism. as governors, some of you have legislatures controlled by the other party in your no compromise is essential to getting things done. so is prioritizing. gov. o'malley in maryland a limited deficits while keeping tuition down and making the public schools the best that america five years running. that is how the governor worked in tennessee. like the rest of us, they know we can't just cut our way to prosperity. cutting a lot is not an economic policy. you have to make smart choices to cut what we don't need so we can invest in things that we do need. >> the house comes back at 5:00 eastern for work on a bill at the california research center named after neil armstrong. general speeches are expected at 6:30 eastern. members of the congressional black caucus tend to talk -- plan to talk about the voting rights act. and work begins on a bill that reauthorize of the violence against women act. that legislation that expired almost a year-and-a-half ago now awaits house action. >> she was one of the wealthiest widows and the colonies. during the revolution, she was considered an eminent -- enemy by the british that threatens to take her hostage. she would become the first first lady. the martha washington. meet the new weekly series, first ladies, influence and damage. some places that influenced her life including mount vernon, valley forge, and philadelphia. the part of a conversation with martha washington, live tonight at c-span, c-span radio, and our web site. >> with no foreign countries swipe or corporate secrets. our enemies are also seeking the ability to sabotaging our power grid and financial institutions. our air traffic control systems. we cannot look back and wonder why we did nothing in the face of real threats to security and the economy. >> there were a lot of different concerns. one of the concerns that we here in d.c. reflected is high- volume, quality, and timeliness. you have shared information about what happened three months ago, but what about now? we want to be about the head of the issues. we are making progress in that space. over the last year in particular, we improved our ability to share information faster with the private sector. i also hear concerns about ensuring that the other sectors that they rely on also are increasing their security. if you are a bank, reliant on power and water and transportation, i frequently hear that companies want to make sure all of the infrastructure sectors are moving together because everything is so interdependent. >> the new executive order, tonight at 8:00 eastern. tomorrow, ben bernanke delivers the monetary policy report to the senate banking committee. you can see his testimony live on c-span 3. the secretary of state is in the united kingdom, his first overseas trip since taking the position earlier this month. he met with david cameron and william hague. the news conference with reporters on the future of the partnership, this is 35 minutes. >> john kerry and london today and for the commonwealth office. >> senator kerry, we are delighted that you have chosen here for your first trip overseas. each day and each hour, i witnessed the importance of our indefensible alliance. we make a powerful difference in world affairs. and our partnerships in diplomacy and defense have no equal in the world. we have met many times in recent years in recent months. this is my first opportunity to welcome him here. and to pay tribute to the immense experience he brings to his new role. we have had detailed and thorough talks covering their range of affairs from the middle east and the importance we both attached to ending the israeli- palestinian conflict. i welcome the focus he has brought to bear on this issue. there is no more urgent priority than restarting negotiations between the israelis and palestinians. that region of the world can't afford the current dangerous impasse. if we don't make progress very soon, that two-state solution might be impossible to achieve. there is a burning need to revive the peace process. supported by european, arab, and other nations. i know that mr. kerrey will make every effort to analyze and make decisive moves for peace. i welcome president obama visit to the middle east this spring. the secretary and i plan to meet this week, an appalling injustice has been done to the people of syria that the world cannot ignore. we discussed the vital need for political transition. we agree that for as long as political solutions are blocked, the international community has a responsibility to take steps to prevent the loss of life in syria. it includes the terrible loss of life we have just witnessed in aleppo. that is why it we believe we must significantly increase our support for the opposition. and we are preparing to do home humanitarian relief effort. in the face of murder and threats and instability, our policy cannot stay static as the weeks go by. it is an important opportunity to discuss this with our allies and partners. our countries agree that iran poses a threat to the peace and security of the world. talks will take place in causal extend this week. -- kazakhstan this week. this will be an important year for afghanistan as troops stand shoulder to shoulder. kerry andfed secretary carry we have discussed progress for the year ahead. we will continue a robust and intelligent response to the threat of international terrorism. we reviewed the situation in mali and somalia, and it has led to significant progress on the ground. our second conference in may which will support the rebuilding of armed forces, police, coast guard, and public finances. we also discussed the british priorities for the areas of trade and transparency. i look forward to hosting the foreign ministers to focus not only on immediate threats but longer-term challenges including the need to shatter the culture of impunity for those that use sexual violence as a weapon for war, which is my personal priority this year. and finally, we reiterate our commitment to the transatlantic trade and agreements that would not only support jobs and growth, but would be a much- needed boost for the world. i welcome the proposal for a transatlantic trade. but just as our strategic cooperation on foreign policy is intense, so as our economic length. we are invested in each other's economies. the united states is the single largest only support investor id kingdom. i look forward to working with the secretary over the coming months and years, and now invite him to make his remarks. >> thank you very much, mr. foreign secretary. we want to thank the foreign secretary for the tremendous hospitality that he has shown me here today and my team. i also appreciated the act earlier to be able to meet with prime minister cameron over breakfast. it is always a great pleasure for me to be able to visit london, and it is no accident that this is the first stop on my trip as the secretary of state. many years ago as a young child, i managed to get in the united kingdom. lost in london. i want to thank somebody for finding me. this day, i must say, was made much easier. it was impossible for me to get lost. i am particularly pleased to be able to be here with the remarkable partner that is the united kingdom. when you think of everything that bind the united states and great britain, our common values, our shared history, ties to family home, both personal and friendship. there is a reason why we call this a special relationship, really, a partnership of the heart. in the twentieth century, our countries fought for freedom side-by-side. have fought for survival. together, we thrive in war, in peace, and we stood together to meet the world's great challenges. we may face new and more complex challenges, but he why absolutely know that we face them together just as we did in the last century. and together, it is clear that our partnership remains stronger than ever. as the foreign secretary made clear, we discussed the agenda today that reflect the many benefits and the relationships that bring both of our peoples of the world together from counter-terrorism to creating jobs, advancing our shared values. that is no small endeavor or commitment. we discussed our agreement, i think that historic agreement. and hopefully, historical and we accomplished it. the u.s., europe, transatlantic trade, growing prosperity on both sides of the atlantic. it is no secret that we both face economic challenges. we all do in this global marketplace and this challenging marketplace. europe alone is the largest economy in the world. when you join that with the united states of america, we have a powerful ability to be able to affect the rules of the road and raise standards, most importantly, creating jobs for all of our people. europe is already america of's largest trading partner. this will create additional jobs for investment. president obama made it clear this is a top priority for the united states. we also discussed the responsibility to support fragile democracies across the world from libya, tunisia, and beyond. it is in our mutual interest. i want to thank the president for the important leadership. showing the support for libya. i think he and the people of the united kingdom can be proud. william and i agreed that the syrian people deserve better than the horrific violence that threatens the everyday lives of innocent people, people wanting their government to be accountable and part of their own lives. the regime has rained down rockets, and that is just the latest example of brutality. we condemn this indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians and we condemn it in the strongest terms. it is just further evidence assad has to go. i think william for the effort to help dial up the pressure on the regime, for their contributions of humanitarian aid and hosting the transition conference last month. let me make clear that we will continue to work closely with british allies to address the growing humanitarian crisis and the support of the syrian opposition council. we are coordinating with the syrian opposition coalition, coordinating with the un and with others in order to help give relief to the victims that need better health. william and i also discussed a couple of occasions. like iran's nuclear program. as we have said again and again, iran with a nuclear weapon in that region, given all that has happened, it is simply unacceptable. we have stated they will not obtain a nuclear weapon. president obama has been crystal clear about this. as we have repeatedly made clear the window for a diplomatic solution, we simply cannot remain open forever. but it is open today. it is open out that there is still time. but there is only time if iran makes the decision to come to the table and negotiate a good faith. we negotiate in good faith and mutual respect to avoid whatever terrible consequences could follow failure. the choice is in the hands of the iranians, we hope it will make the right choice. we discussed our partnership in afghanistan and i want to thank all of the people of great britain that i know have been patient and carried this enormous challenge with a certain degree of restraint. and obviously a great degree of commitment. we are grateful for the sacrifices of your people and the contribution of your remarkable troops. we need to continue to remain in close coordination as we tackle this upcoming transition. finally, hire appreciate deeply william's and the u.k. hosea unwavering support for that goal. we share a vision as a think people do, to states living side by side in peace and security. we talked about how we can support two parties reaching that end, because that is the only way to achieve lasting peace. i look forward to continuing to work with william on these issues and so many others, i might comment that i know president obama is looking forward to his visit to the region in an effort to try to begin to make decisions. the secretary in the long history of our partnership and our collaboration, the united states and great britain, which have made our country stronger and the world more stable and secure. we can be proud of that and we understand that we come with a special commitment to do our work to make our world safer, more stable, a place of greater opportunity and peace for all people. i personally thank you for your friendship, thank you very much. >> we are going to have questions? >> policy towards the falkland islands. the forthcoming referendum, should be respected. >> let me be clear with our position. first of all, i am not going to comment, nor is the president, on a referendum that has not taken place. our position has not changed. the united states recognizes the fact the u.k. administration of the islands but takes no position on the question of sovereignty claims there too. -- thereto. we support argentina on practical matters and we continue to urge a peaceful resolution of that critical issue. i think that is exactly what our position has been. we look forward to the future. >> [inaudible] >> why should the syrian opposition leaders want to meet in rome or other international meetings given the fact that they have not gotten the help they have sought. secretary clinton and secretary recommended farming some of the rebel groups. a static policy cannot remain. it time toge, isn't revisit the policy, and i want to ask what you mean by the policy? with the u.k. like to see the united states take a more forward-leaning policy towards arm and the rebels and giving them some help in our main, training, or other kinds of support? is there a way that the regime can be displaced given russia's support military and otherwise? >> i will answer your first question and let the secretary answer questions two, three, and four. why should they come and meet? because countries have been helping them and because we are precisely meeting to determine how to help assad change the calculation on the ground. i have said that he needs to be able to change his calculation. president obama has been engaged in examining the way that we may be able to contribute to that. that is the purpose of this meeting in rome. i would urge syria opposition to join us as a matter of practicality and informing us. i would say to them ahead of time that in our discussions today, in washington, which prompted us to accept this meeting with a new secretary of state that a beginning moment of the second term, president obama has expressed concerns about it. this moment is right for us to be considering what we can do. we understand that the syrian people want to see results in this conference. i would say, so do we. the best way get those results is to join us, the part of this discussion, and together, working as we did today with our other friends, i am quite confident to be able to come up with what has happened. what has happened in aleppo, human rights abuses, it seems to me that it is pretty hard to understand when you see missiles falling on the innocent people, it is possible to take their notion that they are ready to have a dialogue. that is why we think it is important to get together to hear directly from the opposition, to know precisely what they think would be the most useful at this point in time, and how we might be able to make a difference. that is an important meeting, an important discussion that they will be able to make the decision to come and join us. >> i support what the secretary has said, there is a feeling of great frustration that is not surprising. more than 70,000 people have been killed. and there has been no sign of a political or diplomatic break. our frustration is intense, as well. and of course, to bring humanitarian assistance that we can possibly bring, it begins that background, our policy is ecstatic, but it will have to change and develop. visiting lebanon last week, i saw the importance of that. you see terrible human cost of this conflict and the mounting danger of greater instability in neighboring countries. it is not an issue that the world can ignore. we agreed last week in the european union and we are tying down the details of the amendments to the european union arms embargo and sanctions. we will go on from that to put forward a new package of assistance in line with that agreement. it will take a little time to put together a consultation with our partner. it is important what we can most effectively do, whether that be rome or other occasions, depending on if they decide to attend that meeting. >> secretary of state, he said you had new ideas on syria? he said the time is right to consider what more we can do. tell us what you're going to do. what about weapons being seen among the opposition? if you are seriously thinking of harming the opposition, what about the jihadi threat? >> i have not said anything about what we are specifically planning to do because we owe it to our friends and allies to discuss those things with them first. i don't think they should be reading about options in the newspaper, with all due respect. there will be a moment for our decision at that moment is after we have a meeting in rome that is not today. we have been discussing options, and i will not go into what they might be at this point in time. i will be going from here to berlin, i will be meeting with the foreign minister and subsequently going to paris, meeting with the foreign minister and going to rome. allow us to consult and have the opportunity to exchange views about what is possible. i want our friends to know that we are not coming to rome simply to talk. we are coming to make a decision about the next steps and perhaps other options that may or may not be discussed further after that. if we get through these consultations and other productive meeting, hopefully we will have something to be able to announce to you. >> with all due respect, for two years, we have heard american politicians and cabinet secretaries tell us that the situation is unacceptable and nothing has changed. little has changed with u.s. policy. we have seen humanitarian aid, but not much more than that. the eu is providing non-legal aid, i am wondering if the u.s. is considering this? and if you are ceding influence for the ron. afghanistan has asked u.s. troops to leave the province and i think within two weeks, can we get your comment on that? >> with respect to afghanistan, i understand the concerns they have expressed. appropriately, when a complaint they may have thought to be appropriately evaluated. they will be, i assure you. i have taken appropriate note and i have had a great deal of involvement in afghanistan with president karzai. there are evaluations of how things might have gone wrong or might have changed. we are working on a bilateral security arrangement and this transition process. we have had a very good conversation with the president. president obama talked to him before making announcements. we have listened very carefully to his observations about wanting to speed up the transition with respect to management of security. i can assure you that we are finely attuned to the needs of the afghan people, and the most effective ways to make this transition with our allies that have spent their treasurer in a way that is most effective. i am not surprised by the request, it is something that we will deal with initially, and everything in our power to affect this as sensitively as possible. if we don't, it will not work properly. with respect to syria and the frustration you just articulated, they are sensitive to that frustration. i was a member of the senate and one of the voices on the outside pushing for one thing and another. i understand that the reason people question, the getting a fresh turmoil with the president -- term with the president. he has sent me here at throne, he is here and concerned about the course of events. he is evaluating precisely what steps will take. again, i am not going to say to you today what my reaction is or is not. that is what these consultations are about. let's have the consultations. i am listening closely and we had a very lengthy discussion with william hague. we have a lot of ideas on the table and some of them i am confident will come to maturity by the time we meet in rome. others may take a little more of a gestation period, but they are no less a part of the discussion. we are determined that the syrian opposition is not going to be dangling in the wind, wondering where support is or if it is coming. we are determined to change the calculation on the ground. even as i emphasized that, it is the policy of the u.s. and our allies to pursue a political resolution. that is the best way to save lives and minimize the disruption of the region, to maximize the possibilities of all people being represented appropriately in the democratic process. ,e don't have the ingredients putting forth the efforts, we are no less committed. but at the same time, we will not let the opposition not have its ability to have a voice properly heard in this process. i look forward to rome because the thing to be able to accomplish something. thank you all. >> the house comes back in about 15 minutes from now for a bill that renames the unit after neil armstrong. votes are expected at about 6:30 eastern and will have live coverage on c-span. the automatic budget cuts take effect on friday. representative markey, putting thousands of jobs at risk. here is more of what is happening on the budget cut debate on capitol hill. >> jonathan strong rights for roll call. steering is the issue of sequestration. >> this has been a lot about publicity and not just about legislation. these go into effect on march 1, and we have no progress on negotiations to avert them. the president needs to come together and work on how to find a more targeted spending cuts. the president is insisting on tax increases as part of these cuts. >> are house republicans working to avoid it or are they largely ok with sequestration? >> is a complicated message and one that some have criticized. some say they eventually voted for it when they passed it in the house. the cuts are not significant in size, but they say that the way it is across the entire government, it is harmful. the scope should be targeted to cut money. the way that they are .mplemented is not fine >> house democrats have their own plan for averting be sequestered. is there a chance it will be voted on? >> house democrats released a proposal that is 1/3 spending cuts and 2/3 tax increases. you remember the buffet rule that is an alternative minimum tax for people that are not over 1 million a year. it will affect their taxes of at least 30%. those are the two main parts of that plan, it is very similar to that as well. >> can you tell us how the cuts will work? >> they are limited to certain parts of the government, mainly on discretionary spending. half is on non-defense spending. $46 billion in cuts, it will be hitting discretionary, 8.5-9.9% for every agency of the government. the so-called entitlement spending is largely from these cuts. >> give us a quick review of how the idea came about. >> it is a bit of washington lore at this point, bob woodward, the legendary journalist putting forward his findings in a very pronounced way, this idea originally came in the 1980's. they are so draconian, you would come up with a way to do it and force congress to come up with the deal. we can kind of come up with an agreement on the debt ceiling and rather than years of the debt ceiling increase, we have to not want to go through that again. these automatic across-the-board cuts, they had to convince officials that were somewhat reluctant to go along with this. and the democratic majority leader thought this was a terrible idea. >> last question and very quickly, the senate is talking about competing plans aimed at averting the budget cuts. what are you hearing from senators about what they might do? >> they will have votes on the democratic and republican plans, both of which are going to require 60 votes. they will require 60 votes for those that pass, it is not clear whether or not the plan will be able to get those votes even though they are the majority in that chamber. it puts a lot of the democrats up for election in the hot seat. >> jonathan strong, thanks for joining us. >> we have been getting a closer look at how the automatic spending cuts could affect each of the federal agencies. today, we focused on the defensive and homeland security department. >> what happens over at defense? >> friday, nothing will happen yet, but everything will happen on march 27. d.o.d. is taking precautions for a cut in 2013. >> where the cuts come from? >> across-the-board cuts. the only place they won't come from as military personnel. soldiers or deployed or not deploy, they will be there. >> determined accounts, they're pretty hefty in duty. in reality, they will be hit more because of personnel accounts won't be hit. the other thing is we are halfway through the year end -- and d.o.d. has to make up for what they have already spent. >> that have been notified about 800,000 of them. >> what about deployments around the world? >> the money will still be there, and for soldiers that are deployed right now, primarily afghanistan, they will be funded at the full level. those accounts will be subject to sequestration, there was the congress to take money from other areas. the war shifted into those operations accounts. >> more of the figures from the associated press as far as the defense cuts, some examples here. would have used to do the we're reading about the health care system, the pentagon could be restructuring contracts. >> in training, that will be really dubious, only units preparing to deploy will be the ones. the plans will be grounded, they will training and shifted into the war account to pay for afghanistan. tricare is what you mentioned. people will still get benefits can be seen by doctors. host: a big fight in washington over the defense aspect. what else should we know about the defense area? guest: there will be an impact. they say we need to cut sequestration. if sequestration continues in 2014, they get hit with a $50 billion cut, it will probably be more manageable because they will choose where they will make the cut. >> homeland security, an editor. what is going to happen beginning this friday? >> cut to almost every agency, you were talking furloughs of 12-14 days for workers. you are talking cuts to border patrol and customs agents. if you will see lines early increase both at border checkpoints and that customs lines at the airport. for tsa, this is one of the agencies were the federal government interacts with the public. the department said that you could see lines increased by up to one hour. they have said they will have to decrease disaster relief, and immigration and customs enforcement has said they will no longer be able to maintain the number of bids that congress requires. >> what is the size of homeland security at this point? can it still do the work it needs to do? >> the secretary has said that this is not a hit they can take and maintain their current level, one that no
i like it. >> your timing was perfect. >> it was impeccable. you were about to slew profanity, instead, you sly at a synagogue. you will notice, everybody is formally dressed. i came in shorts and a johnny o shirt straight from kate's softball game. but just in time i walk in. it's right by my house. this place is right by my house. it's crazy. so i walked in. i walk up. and you said but phil said you need to say the words and then it was the mf word. she will say publicly. >> i will not. >> in synagogues. >> no. >> and i said -- i had to interrupt. don't say that. >> very funny. it was very funny. great vent. the girl scouts of connecticut. i was so glad to be there. >> tell me about it. >> they gave me an award. >> what award? you got kicked out of the scouts as a brownie. why did you get kicked out? >> i was a little naughty. >> naughty. >> i know you have a hard time believing that. >> i was naughty. i called my aunlt int in the south of france on my cell phone. >> this is going to bother me for the whole show. you swore at synagogue. >> no. >> don't lie. it was the synagogue in washington, mika. >> sixth and i? >> yes. >> and she said mother f like three times. >> no. >> no good. >> this is not helping. >> okay. i don't know what that means. >> jeremy is here. >> i'm not going to swear. >> it was a long time ago. i think there may have been some medication involved. >> anyway girl scouts of connecticut, they do incredible things. >> yes they do. i was so happy to be able to support them. they're trying to raise money for the healthy living initiative. something really important. i think girls need to start really young. you have to really learn how to eat well and stay fit and they're working. >> that's why do they sell all the cookies then? >> there were no cookies last night. >> stop i need the short bread cookies. >> nothing wrong with the cookies. >> i get the short bread cookies and i put hos dogstdogs all around them. >> sounds delicious. >> i don't want anything called a thin mint. some people say is healthy. two of your tv friends were there last night. >> yes. diane smith who co-wrote obsessed with me. >> okay. very good. listen, we're going to get to this in a little bit. a really big story. i know it is causing a lot of concerns among the left. a lot of foreign policy leaders and generals obviously very happy about the fact jeremy peters that barack obama is actually looking to add bases and troops in iraq. and as we said yesterday, the announcement yesterday wasn't enough. it was just step one. >> i think this is always been kind of what's wrong with this debate over will there be troops on the ground? won't there be troops on the ground? >> boots on the ground. >> of course there will be boots on the ground n this instance, there have to be a lot more. this is proven to be such a big problem. >> so if you're a liberal in america, you got hillary clinton. hillary clinton is going to obviously support boots on the ground. she's going to be aggressive. that's how she was at the state department. that's how she was as a senator. her husband intervened so much. republicans were complaining about all of his interventions. then on the republican side i mean, you got ran paul maybe saying don't do it. so if you're a liberal, you really got nowhere to go if you don't want -- if you're a moderate or if you're a conservative, it doesn't matter. it's not singularly -- i guess you're right. >> i think you're right though in terms of today's washington d.c., i think the de facto position is going to be okay we'll tepidly go in with some more support structure. the best question i've heard asked is at the briefing the other day which is you know we have 13 years of history of trying train iraqi troops, trying to prop them up and it hasn't worked. what it is about 450 more support troops? i don't think there is a good answer. >> i think this is a political move. i don't even look at it through the eyes of american politics. i look at it through the eyes of iraqi politics trying to get the sunnis to believe there say reason for them to actually join in and push back in ramadi and other areas instead of turning it over to iranian backed militias. >> hard to understand what's different about this approach and what would actually be effective about it. of course i think the iran component is one that we have to keep in mind. >> john mccain sf the mindset we can have you know 10,000 troops that are going to support capacity indefinitely. if that's the case then i think the administration -- it's on the inadministration to say this is the time line that we're looking at. this is the longevity that we're looking at. this is more like a baby step on the process to something bigger. >> mika you just pointed this out. usa today article, all in the family. they take a deep dive into the clintons and the bushes. and then the twitter chief out. i use twitter. i don't follow the business of it that much. anybody here know why he's out? >> i can tell you. >> okay. twitter misses a goal. i guess, you know what? i say i don't know much about this. i know enough. i watch silicon valley every week. by the way, it's getting really good. season premier this week. mike judge, great. >> let's go to upstate new york the man hunt for the two escaped murderers still at large. it's now been six days since david sweat and richard matt were discovered missing from the maximum security prison in dannemora, new york. police intensified the search in a densely wooded area just a few miles from the prison after a police dog picked up a scent of one or both of the escapees. as we reported yesterday, sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell the prison employee being questioned by police was supposed to be the get away driver for the two men but that she got cold feet and instead -- >> you were worried about this from the beginning, that somebody had maybe -- >> yeah. >> it sounds like they manipulated her from the little information that's being released right now. and then add to that equation this is a maximum security prison. no metal detectors? that's how the power tools -- i mean how do you -- and you probably bring them in piece by piece. >> yeah. >> have you read much about this guy's background richard matt? >> they're bad. >> it's blood chilling. >> it's bad and then -- >> he is hannibal lecter. he was so dangerous when they brought him in for trial. they had to have a sharpshooter on the courthouse, they had to double the security presence in the courtroom. they had to remove the glass from the tables because they were frayed he would shatter it and use the shards as weapons. >> so there, is mika you can't put this on a seamstress why is he in the good behavior ward of the prison? why don't we get this answer and so many more from our own stephanie gosk? >> joining us stephanie gosk. what's the scene like there this morning? >> good morning. this is a major road in this area. it is closed for the second day in a row. schools in this area are closed for the second day in a row. that search zone that you mentioned is still being searched. it's still if lockdown after they picked up that scent. you were talking about what happened behind the walls of that prison and we spoke to a former prison guard who said there is actually a word for what inmates do to some of the prison workers and they call it grooming. and it's about getting in good with prison workers so that you get some kind of benefit. now generally it's small. cigarettes or food or whatever. but in this case, with joyce mitchell, it appears to have been much more than that and those sources close to the investigation are telling us much more about her and her relationship to these two inmates. what would cause someone to risk it all to spring two convicted killers from prison? sources close to the investigation say joyce mitchell told authorities "she thought it was love." there are news reports she was previously investigated for improper relationship with one of the two inmates. toby mitchell defended his mother earlier this week. >> she is not the kind of person that's going to risk her life for or other peoples lives to let them escape. >> they popped out of this man hole cover between midnight on saturday and 5:00 a.m. nbc news learned that joyce mitchell was supposed to be their get away driver. but whether they got out, she was nowhere to be found. and sources close to the investigation say she got a case of cold feet. her first husband who hasn't spoken to her in almost 20 years believes she could have been manipulated. >> she's from a small town and everything. she could be just a country girl that got sweet talked by some city guy. >> mitchell isn't the first prison worker to get emotionally entangled with convicts. in oklahoma, a warden's wife helped a murderer escape. in new mexico a guard had multiple affairs with female prisoners. inmates can be cunning. >> they will try to get you down that slippery slope. they will ask for a little favor. then a bigger favor. and then a bigger favor. until all of a sudden they feel they have their hooks, their claws into you. >> reporter: mitchell may have been hooked but in the final hour, it appears she left these two convicts high and dry. nbc's sources tell us it was the older inmate richard matt that actually charmed joyce mitchell. "the wall street journal" is reporting there was an investigation done by clinton correctional within the last 12 months investigating whether or not mitchell also had an improper relationship with david sweat. so with both of these convicts the relationship she had is definitely under scrutiny. >> you're saying there is a possibility of two relationships here stephanie? >> that's exactly right. >> okay. we're going to -- if you're scoring at home we have to -- we don't understand. jeremy peters is talking about how bad these guys were. and we don't understand. any word on why they were in the wing that was for -- >> honor. >> the honor wing for well behaved inmates? >> one of the things they say that determination actually happens once they're inside the prison and based on the behavior of the inmate inside the prison not what they actually were convicted for and are serving time for. so regardless of what they did, they are then determined -- i guess they get a clean slate when they walk through and then get put in this honor ward. it raises obviously some questions. is that really the best policy? should what they did and what got them there in the first place somehow have some weight carry weight as far as how they're treated inside? another question that they really have to look at is the influence that inmates have over prison workers. it is obviously not all of them. part of their training they're told how to deal with inmates that are trying to get close to them. they're not supposed to reveal personal information because these guys have a lot of time on their hands and some of them are incredibly cunning. >> right. stephanie gosk thank you so much. >> thank you stephanie. >> let's bring in retired chief inspector for the u.s. marshal service where he led the new york and new jersey fugitive force. we want to ask you about the specific challenges investigators are facing right now six days later. >> absolutely. good morning. it's an intense manhunt on going and has been through the night up in new york. since that dog picked up on that scent and saw a possible footprint and looked further into the woods, they did stumble on to an area that apparently somebody was bedded down. the dogs hit on some fresh tracks. and there was some wrappings there that were consistent with food wrappings that came out of the jail. so it certainly looks good for investigators that rup there. they got a tight perimeter set up. hopefully they've been contained. i hope they're together and they've been looking throughout the night. >> let me ask you about the honor wing. it's less secure right? >> yeah. i'm assuming it is. i know richard matt had been incourse ratein incarcerated since 2008 and sweat since 2003. i like to call them vicious animals. matt dismembered his victim and sweat killed the deputy sheriff and then ran him over with a car. >> wow. >> to be in an honor wing after that, i don't get it. >> we don't either. thank you so much. we appreciate you being here. >> all right. we have to get to politics now. hillary clinton formally kicks off her 2016 campaign tomorrow with a major speech in new york city. "the new york times" reports she will evoke franklin roosevelt speaking from an island named for the 32nd president and liberal icon. but clinton's speech could end up disappointing the democrats progressive base. "the washington post" reports it will focus on personal stories and shy away from policy specifics. bill clinton said yesterday he is unsure if donors to his foundation sought favors from hillary clinton's state department. >> okay. so that is kind of -- we're all sort of laughing. >> what? >> all you have to do is see what george steph nop nop list say? >> that's on the daily show. >> always the hope. >> let's have that for the top of 7:00. but, yeah. >> it strikes me as fairly lawyerly to say something like i'm not sure so that doesn't come back and bite you in the you know what. >> so the former sprez confident whatever the motives were they were unaware. >> because they are blissfully unaware of absolutely everything. they don't keep lists. oh, wait they do. >> can you really say that these companies, these wealthy individuals, these governments, none of them sought anything? i mean some of them did have business before the state department. >> i don't know. you never know what people's motives are. in this case i'm sure everybody gave to haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake and wanted to make a difference. >> you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor. >> no. i don't think hillary would know either. you know she was pretty busy those years. and i don't -- i never saw her study a list of my contributors or -- and i had no idea who was doing business before the state department. >> say it on the air. say it on the air. >> no. >> say it on the air. you know i always say stuff on the air. that's what makes this show this show. you say things and you jump off the cliff. >> i'm so interested in marco rubio's driveway. >> as opposed to this? >> whatever. >> there are absolutely legitimate questions about how marco rubio handled his finances. if you look at his history, this is a guy always operated within the rule. >> we'll go to that. >> his finances raise a larger question about his judgment and good sense and whether or not he is somebody who can manage the way he claims to be. >> mika's bigger point and we'll talk about rubio. the bigger point is with bill clinton going out there -- go ahead. explain on the air what you said off the air. >> i want to know what hillary clinton needs to do saturday to try and put this behind her because what just screams out to me. but, of course we're in the industry of analyzing, of covering. this i got it. of looking for the questions and asking them. and the questions scream out at me what in the world happened with the foundation and this money and the e-mail server? i'm sorry. those scream out at me. so when i -- you know i look forward to saturday. i want to hear it. but i don't understand how bill clinton can get on stage and say maybe some people haval tearer motives and we're going like okay let's cover marco rubio's driveway. i'm sorry. i'm sure it's fine. it's fine. >> also for bill clinton to say hillary was busy she doesn't keep lists when we could read 1,000 stories about hillary -- hillary didn't know what was going on. the clintons keep lists. there's been one story after another story about somebody who slighted them 14 years ago that are still on the list. >> i it this problem here even for the biggest clinton defenders is that it goes back to the e-mails which is even if they're totally innocent the fact they erased the server doesn't allow you to take away the innocence. bill clinton has to deal with the messy stuff. put him out. there you talk about the foundation. hillary won't take the questions as much as she can't. and then we'll do this. >> is it better for him to fumble over it than to have her answer? >> if you're under the belief that there's no good way to handle the questions that you're going to fumble regardless who have is doing it let him do it. >> is he a trial balloon? the giant trial balloon? the guy that is better than anybody else doing it and we'll see what sticks and what doesn't stick? >> is he really the best at it anymore? we've seen him flub some questions. >> this is such a horrible -- there's no good answer. that's why hillary has been on lockdown and in bubble wrap for the past three months. >> but wouldn't you say if there is no good answer or if the good answer has been, you know scrubbed and would have been fine to show the e-mails and it's unfortunate for them i don't know. wouldn't you say get it overwith? get out there, answer the questions, let them come and get bruised up? >> i think that's what they're doing now as much as they can with just bill clinton answering the questions. >> that seems kind of sneaky. >> i think we talked through this and figured out there is no good answer. they're putting bill clinton out. he's better at it than anybody else. and it's even tough for bill clinton. >> i guess the question is for our viewers. why is it okay that while hillary clinton was secretary of state there were all these trades going on and alt earor motives and tv news personalities giving money? >> no. >> why don't -- >> i think it's a real problem for the clinton campaign. >> maybe not. it doesn't seem to be. >> she is unable -- i'm saying in the long run. she's unable to do what bush does which is stand in front of microphones and answer 200 questions. if she stands up there, you're going see hillary clinton. she's not as good at this as her husband says most people. she's there in front of a microphone. the first person says your husband got $550,000 for making a 45-minute speech in front of x at the same time they were the state department and you were doing y. is that proper? and then she fumbles through that. and then somebody asks the next question. i don't know that there's ever going to be good time for her to stand in front of a microphone and answer those questions. >> and my questions are, and i'll speak personally. i grew up in a family where i saw how a lot of this works from the inside. i'm still in one where i know how ethics and rules and protocol must be followed like to the t, down to $50 gifts. and so i think i'm kind of confuse confused. at the same time, i want to see the first woman president of the united states in my lifetime, i would like to see a democrat win the next election. i'm going to be transparent. i would like to see her be able to answer the questions. and for there to be a good answer. but i'm not going to pretend the questions don't exist. >> there's a historic nature of it. but at the same time, there are elements of character and policy positions. let's not just make it about the foundation that, are deeply -- not irritating but troubling. >> i feel like there is a real conflict. >> the thing is you talked about your past growing up with your father in the white house. we don't have to go back to the '7 o0s. we can look back at the fact you can't give your sister-in-law shoes -- >> i can't give her sister-in-law shoes. zbh because that's improper. >> that's right. so if a relative can't give a sister-in-law shoes that don't fit her because her brother works in the state department why can the secretary of state at the same time have a husband who can make $550,000 in a speech that may look like there's an impropriety attached to foreign policy decisions made inside the state department? that and many more questions will be answered straight ahead on "morning joe." >> and maybe it doesn't matter. that's my question for everyone. i'm still kind of struggling. >> still ahead on "morning joe," it is a footprint in iraq where the u.s. is building base there's? army chief of staff general ray says, well we'll see what he says. >> plus a rare look inside a federal prison. kerry sanders is going to join us from a maximum security state penitentiary in iowa where they also have him on the good behavior wing. he'll have a look at the inmates and how they're trying to gain the system. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? we'll give you four good reasons. the volkswagen golf. starting at $19,295, there's an award-winning golf for everyone. why pause a spontaneous moment to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. all right. while you were away and while we were away we just had the best segment of the morning with mika and jeremy and sam all in a cat fight. it was great. >> jeremy is being a little difficult, i think. >> difficult? what do you mean? >> i think he has a little bit too much -- i don't know. >> all right. >> you work for the "new york times." >> should i go in time-out? >> mika you said if this happened to a republican -- >> i do feel the campaign would be dead. >> you think "the new york times" is underreporting this story. is that right? >> it does not feel like anybody has the guts to truly report on this story and it's coming out because it has to. >> we just went through like three weeks of coverage. >> nobody wants to hear it. >> what don't they want to hear? >> jeremy what don't they want to hear? >> this is the first that i heard someone say "the new york times" hasn't covered hillary clinton enough. >> look there have been pops with this story that have just gone away. tell me why, jeremy. >> i think this is because this is built into the cake with the clintons. right? >> i'm sorry. what? >> there are always questions about propriety and whether or not they skirt the rules and whether or not they're too legalistic. it depends on what the definition of is is. so i think this allegation -- >> so they don't cover it because it's built into the cake. >> i think we "the new york times," lots of other news organizations are covering this exhaustively. i just think it's harder for these kinds of allegations and questions to stick to her when they've been exhausted for 20 years. >> look at the other side too. brian williams tells a couple of tall tales which no guy ever does. no guy ever exaggerates. what, he's done. it reminds me when i was in congress and i knew that i had the scale with my bare hands to the top of the capitol dome. no. dudes do that. all right? brian obviously, some real concerns, blah, blah blah. he's being taken care of. they're talking about it. george stephdoes something tham pacts coverage the biggest story of that week. he goes and he rakes an author over the coals, rakes him over the coals. tears him to shreds, talks really fast. he said we've done an investigation at abc news and we found out that -- and a day of two of rustling and then it goes away. now there are just a lot of people who say why isn't the clintons and the clinton people skate and live by a standard and that nobody else lives by. i guarantee you, martin o'malley would be out if this happened to him. bernie sanders would be out. every republican would be out if it happens to him. as mika says everybody is like -- >> so you fwhr congress? >> well i think -- >> i don't like to talk about it. >> i disagree with one problem. >> go ahead, try. >> let's talk about one element of the clinton's problem. the transparency about the e-mails and records. >> which is okay with everybody. >> it's okay with you and it's okay with you. it's okay with the papers and the huffington post. >> it is absolutely not okay. you say that a republican would be out, gone. >> gone. >> if we recall mitt romney was raked over the coals for a lack of transparency when it came to the tax returns. if i recall he somethinged to be the republican nominee. i just don't agree with the things -- >> did he release tax returns? >> he released one year of complete tax returns. one year. >> by the way, very legal. that's all legal. no impropriety. in fact you had harry looedreid lying through his teeth about him. i think that is not fair. >> i think it's a big issue. i brant you this is a big issue. i also disagree with you. i think the idea that we're not covering this story is silly. >> if rumsfeld is running for president and wiped the e-mail server clean, tell me what you two would do? >> we would forgive. >> but we had three weeks of coverage of clintons book and the idea we haven't been covering clinton is silly. we're talking about it today on a television program. >> we're covering it but you don't care. >> i do care! i absolutely care. >> i'm sorry, i lost it. >> by the way -- >> i never heard that "the new york times" doesn't cover hillary clinton. >> we're on a morning show and talking about it. >> hold on. i have an announcement. it's like a theater. playing the role of joe scarborough this morning, mika. >> oh, no. >> i appreciate it. >> it's freaky friday. >>, no i'm not. >> girls, know your value. freaky friday. we switched. go team. i'm going to the south of france. >> you all know i'm right. coming up -- that happens when i'm right. a british report said that donald rumsfeld said former president bush was wrong about the war. >> rumsfeld says the paper is wrong. we'll explain y plus eugene robinson is here for the must read opinion pages. yes says islamic state is far more in control of events than president obama. we'll also have him comment on mika's controversy. ght. sometimes romantic. there were tears in my eyes. and tears in my eyes. and so many little things that we learned were really the biggest things. through it all, we saved and had a retirement plan. and someone who listened and helped us along the way. because we always knew that someday the future would be the present. every someday needs a plan. talk with us about your retirement today. you've heard of a "win-win," right? 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"the times" generated headlines in which rumsfeld said former president bush was wrong on iraq. he says this quote was incomplete and the complete quote was this -- "i'm not one that thinks our template of democracy is appropriate for other countries that every moment of their history, nor has it been appropriate for us at every moment of our history. we have evolved. we're still evolving and we'll be different in 50 years, 100 years ago women didn't vote. 150 years ago, we had slaves and so forth. so the idea that we could fashion a democracy in iraq it seemed to me is unrealistic to a certain extent and the president and the administration would have been better off not allowing the mission to creep that direction. i was concerned about it when i first heard the beginnings of those words. you know what? that's pretty much the same. that's an incredibly important, valid concern. i know some other really brilliant people who had that concern back then and still do today. you can't ram democracy down the tloest a throat of a country that isn't there yet. >> that is the central justification of the war of which rumsfeld is the chief architect. >> how did he know that and not -- >> i want to know what the clarification is. >> it sounds exactly the same. >> i don't see a clarification, do you? >> eugene robinson writes this in the "washington post," "obama's his tansy sihesitancy on iraq suggests that the skepticism about what at this point must be considered his war. that would explain yes keeps announcing they have no strategy. maybe one does exist but the president doesn't think it will work or perhaps obama is playing for time. maybe he's decided to do just enough to keep the iraqi government from collapsing while giving his generals every chance to make their far fetched training program work. the problem is that in any war the enemy gets a vote and nothing altered the fact that islamic state is far more in control of events than the president." and, gene we've been hearing this for the past couple of weeks. >> yeah. >> you put it eloquently into words. isis is beating us in iraq. you can spin it any way you want, to but they have the will. they have the momentum. they've got thousands of recruits pouring in. we seem to be fumbling around not just the president. i haven't heard a republican come out and say this is what we shall do and i go oh, my gosh the clouds parted. >> yeah. you listen to what the generals are saying and it's like well we've had success over here and we've had success over there and reminds mef the statements that we used to hear about vietnam. we're making good progress in this area or whatever when in fact they were taking over country. i think the same thing is happening in iraq. it clearly, the initiative is with the islamic state. my colleague has a great column on iraq this morning about the contrast between the two announcements, president obama in a 450 new troops only 50 of whom are actual trainers. the rest are support personnel. and on the other hand isis released a new video that is just blood thirsty and, you know aggressive and so which one are iraqis going to pay attention to? >> you know one of the reasons we don't have a very clear debate here is because republicans love attacking barack obama and foreign policy. and i sure don't like it as it relates to isis. republicans are ambivalent as well. >> they are. >> there is john mccain, there is lindsey graham, there are a few other neocons that say let's take 50,000 troops in or do whatever it takes. but 90% of republicans that i've talked to in speeches across the country, on college campuses when we go out. they don't want mission creep any more than the liberals we talk to. >> right. we've all lived through the past ten, 15 years of this. and the tangle of it is the middle east. to my surprise eugene i couldn't agree with you more in your column. i would expand it beyond iraq in terms of the president's strategy which doesn't apply to syria or libya or northern africa where you have others joining us with isis and pledging allegiance to the terrorist organization. i had the opportunity last night to talk with a navy seal who served in afghanistan and iraq and he said that we need to be thinking beyond borders. you know what? in the middle east they do. they don't look at these borders the way we do. they were artificial in the first place. which i think complicates the west's approach to the middle east. >> yeah. hey, we'll be talking more about this in a minute. we have richard haas with us and, gene stay with us. coming up next in the words of veteran advocates, "non-combat, my ass." >> we'll talk to him about the point of reaction to the administration's plans in iraq. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. ready to leave sticky sunscreens behind? 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[announcer] you work hard to build your company. wells fargo will work right alongside you, bringing the expertise your company needs to move forward. wells fargo. together we'll go far. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business. we mentioned the column and the manifesto for the battle in iraq and is more forceful. the american step is careful. troops don't go into battle. they won't call in air strikes and theyry main ryemain in a protective compound. it is a ruthless campaign. which one is going to win? >> obviously, its isis one. the american policy is incremental one at the worst. it is a president comfortable with the choices and he feels like he can't stick with nothing. he really has three choices, wash your hands of it and watch the carnage. you go in the way john mccain are saying a lot more on behalf of the current strategy. i think there is a third option which is change strategy. i say give up on iraq. this is a sectarian country controlled by iran. shia militias are on the loose. we're directly with the kurds. worked directly with the sunni tribes. begin to have a lather different post iraq strategy. this isn't going to work what we're doing. this is just a president, again, who i think is uncomfortable with his choices and is doing little things. these little things won't -- >> let me play devil's advocate. if the central idea is to get the sunnis to stand up fight and essentially be an army that they haven't been isn't it counter productive to get too far in? if you were to be so aggressive wouldn't they say okay you carry the burden for us again? isn't that part of the point? part of the point is to get them to carry a larger burden. but who do you mean by them? if iraq is them it's not going to work. you had the shia domination of it. the sunnis and kurds are not going to fight. and the iraqi army is a fiction. it's not going to work. so the reality earntive is whether you pump more into it. i would say not. i think you have to go to plan b. plan b is a post iraq post syria foreign policy. humpty dumpty is not coming back together again. we have to think about a policy that -- >> so joe biden was right all along. is there an american national security interest in sending troops to the middle east to defeat isis as they seize territory and resources? >> there is an american national security interest to see that isis does not dominate the middle east. >> how do we do that? >> first, two reasons. one is terrorism. terrorism is not going to stay in the middle east. it's going go global. second of all, isis is not content to run around the desert in iraq and sear yachlt the day is going to come sooner rather than later that isis among other things is going to put challenge to saudi arain yachlt saudi arabia twolz the two holiest cities in islam. let saudi arabia presume to be the islamic state. then if isis ever gains control of saudi arabia's oil output. >> is there an american military approach we should be taking? >> a far more aggressive one towards helping the kurds and sunni tribes directly. the problem is -- and i don't have a great answer for it -- is sear yachlt we don't have a ground partner in syria. >> don't we have to get an answer to syria? isn't this a lot like afghanistan where the problems in afghanistan were coming out of pakistan? >> right. i think you're right. you can't have an iraq strategy that can succeed without a american strategy. i think it will require a post upper assad strategy. it has to be government of syria. it can't be -- >> we're now talking about it so bad that we're now talking about possibly siding with the al qaeda affiliate because they're preferable. >> i think that was in the times or post. >> that's a good example of the middle east where the enemy of the enemy should still be your enemy. they're all poisonous from america's point of view. >> all right. amy holmes thank you so much. richard, sta with us. we're pulling up extra seats four our political roundtable. we have chuck todd and others joining in. >> the most interesting one of that group actually it's you, mika. today, throwing 95 an hour fastballs. >>, no >> no, i'm not. actually, it's the slow balls that you're throwing that you ought to think about. presidential candidate past and present mitt romney will be our guest. plus, carly fiorina will be in the studio. 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i'm really struggling with this. it was announced that olympic figure skater michelle kwan is a full timed paid staffer on hillary clinton's campaign. yeah. while tonya harding was hired to take care of any other democrats who entered the race. >> good one. >> i like that. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> it's great to be back on "morning joe." i saw sam stein. we were in the "morning joe" smoking lounge and sam said -- >> smoking? >> no, no no. i mean pipes. we had our paisley smoking jackets that, sort of thing. >> i'm a big fan of pipes. >> eugene robinson is with us. >> i'm a fan of pipes for many years. >> he is really hyper this morning. >> gee, what is up with mika. >> no he didn't. >> he did, too. >> i said everyone is on the street about mika being -- >> they are not. >> sam stein said that. >> stop it. i do not. i don't. >> she is very sweet off set. >> why, did she apologize to you for trashing "the new york times." >> it's not just "the new york times." it's all of us. >> let's let mika talk. tell us you say, i shouted out who killed the kennedys after all these years. you say this to us. we are the enemy. >> no. i really think there is just kind of a strange lack of honesty that we struggle with as we talk about this story or choose not to. >> the hillary clinton story? >> yes, a republican candidate in a similar position would be dead in the water. >> so let's do this. do you have the clip of bill clinton? no, i want to kick start you and get you revved up some more. here is bill clinton from yesterday and then we'll have mika from today. let's play it. >> are you really saying that these companies, these wealthy individuals, none of them sought anything? some of them did have business before the state department. >> i don't know. you never know what people's motives are. in this case, i'm sure everybody gave to haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake and saw what they saw on television and horrified and wanted to make a difference. >> you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor, just that there was no -- >> no and i don't think hillary would know either. she was pretty busy those years. and i don't -- i never saw her study a list of my contributors or -- i had no idea who is doing business before the state department. >> what were you saying? >> no go ahead. >> what were you saying? >> i don't know why he would say that. seems like it's always about one person even when his wife is running for president. that is an incredibly -- i guess he is covering for something that might come out. i don't know. >> anyway he said hillary was too busy to keep lists even though they weren't too busy to keep lists when they were in the white house. but the president said -- president clinton also said that hillary wouldn't know and he didn't know if people would ever seek favors. shocked. he doesn't think. so here's george stephanopoulos though talking about foundation donors before his own donations were revealed. >> i read the book that this is based on. i interviewed the author. this is a tough one. when you actually look at it he even says there is no evidence of any direct action taken on behalf of the donors. but everybody also knows those donors give that money and president clinton or someone, they get a picture with him. but there is a hope that's going to lead to something. >> of course. >> that's what you have to be careful of. >> i don't understand this idea. the entire system appears to be shrouded in that type of quid pro quo or the appearance. >> even if you don't get an action, what you get is access and the influence that comes with access. that's got to shape the thinking. >> right. >> i think that's what is so bad about it. >> there are so many people that said there had to be something wrong with brian williams to say things he knew were untrue. george steph nop list isanopoulos is talking to jon stewart saying, okay, these donors the third person giving money. obviously they want something out of. this obviously. undercutting what clinton said and secondly jeremy making you look at that clip and go didn't -- how does he do that? >> someone else give money to the clinton foundation? >> he was saying that -- >> yes. >> not revealing his own. and jon stewart is talking about the lack of transparency and the quid pro quo. >> right. >> it's breath taking. >> you raise a larger point about how does george stephanopoulos credibly continue as the face of abc news through this election season. this is a question that abc news has not addressed. it is particularly interesting question when you think about what role might george stephanopoulos play in a democratic debate? abc has an answer to that. >> because the media doesn't care about this story. >> i care about it. that's why i'm bringing it up right now. "the new york times" cares about it because we've written about it a lot. >> what about brian seltzer and cnn that was the brian williams network for three weeks? again, the bigger point here we're not visiting george's issue. we're talking about what mika brought up how the clintons somehow always live by another standard. >> i actually am not talking about them. i'm talking about us. >> the media. >> i'm talking about us. and i'm wonldering, i guess i jumped out of the invisible box we're n john heilman, would you like to explain what i'm talking about or do you not have the guts to? >> holy cow! >> i came in here wanting to bring happiness and love to the set. i just want you know make you all happy this morning. and you're just already -- >> you don't have the guts? >> i do not have the guts to. i'm really having so much fun listening to you this morning. >> can i ask a question now? >> why don't you have the guts? >> whether did you stop beating your dog? why don't i have the guts? >> why do you care? >> i'm still trying to figure out what this conversation is b. >> that clintons live on different sfanld ardz ontandards. she is sending out her husband as the trial balloon. this is a woman who cannot stand before microphones and answer questions like any other person running for president of the united states. there aren't good answers that won't sound bad. >> now i can answer the question. if you go back and play the tape on this show those words came out of my mouth. >> he's so smart. >> i've been saying it's outrageous she is not taking questions from reporters for months. i have said on this show and others that the reason part of the reason she doesn't take questions from reporters is because she does not have good answers to give. >> gene robinson. >> that is the influence that one must draw. >> what am i trying to say? am i alone here? everybody, leave me alone here to hang out to dry. >> nobody is leaving you out to dry. >> mika i'm going to try. please don't accuse me of not loving jesus, okay. i do love jesus. >> that was yesterday. >> i don't think -- look. this is an issue. i do think it's being covered. i think the questions are being asked. it's -- look i run into this when i write a column about something i think is outrageous. and it doesn't get picked up. it doesn't get, you know it doesn't go viral. and i get all ticked off because it doesn't go viral. but i can't control the way everybody else reacts to it. >> do you think the page is turning? do you think the page turning about george stephanopoulos so cleanly is an example of what i'm trying to talk about? what i'm trying to say? >> you know frankly, i think that's more of a function of the very different ways in which nbc news and abc news reacted to the two scandals if you want to compare the two situations. one thing -- >> there is one difference between the situations and one is about the clintons. >> exactly. one was about the clintons and one is about a much more serious, i think, conflict of interest. it's there. but abc really closed ranks around george stephanopoulos and sought to essentially short circuit that story by saying don't do it again. >> you haven't answered the question about whether or not he'll do a democratic debate f you're hillary clinton's campaign, do you want george stephanopoulos anywhere near the debate stage whether he has to prove how tough he is on her? >> absolutely not. if you ever want to work on another campaign again, you have to be extra tough on the clintons. so, no. if i'm hillary clinton, no way. i don't want him anywhere near. ironically, the $75,000 that george stephanopoulos gave to the clinton foundation which he would have said to jon stewart he was giving for more access it's actually stopped him from having access. so this all comes on the heels of a big announcement for hillary clinton. i know a lot of you are frustrated at all the talk about this. i think actually what mika stumbled on to and what we stumbled on to is a very important conversation to v tomorrow you're going to have the presumptive frontrunner and the person running for the president of united states that is the odd on favorite to be the next person running this country for the next four to eight years who starts her campaign in an absolutely fascinating position. first place with tons of money and richard haas -- mika? >> the opportunity to be the first woman to make history, to prove all of her critics wrong through the years and, yet, she's incapable of standing in front of a microphone and answering questions from the media because she is tied up in an ethical knot of her husband and her's own doing. it's an absolutely fascinating position to be in when you're running a campaign. john heilman? >> oh, no let's just see what happens here. let's see if someone has the guts to say anything. >> i tried before to agree. >> you don't. you can't. >> let's talk about this issue. talk about the bigger question. hillary's campaign. what does she want to achieve tomorrow? but here's all this as a subtext. what does she want to acleave tohieve to put this behind her. >> they have had an idea about how they want to do this campaign. they want to start the way they started with a soft launch and the rollout that they had and they wanted to go big and have the realities. they have to start doing policy announcements, all of this stuff that has -- that have become not just a side show but for some people legitimately the main event is a huge draction. but -- huge distraction. but what they have learned as a couple is that if they push through and take questions when they want to take them and ignore the questions they don't want to answer is that in the end, it works. and your comment about the complicity of the media is legitimate. i'd say there is also complicity on the part of the democratic party. it's amazing, given all the things you're talking about, her falling approval ratings, unfavorable polls, the numbers that show a lot of americans think she sun trustworthy, it is astonishing to me there is not a stronger democratic field taking her on. why is that? there is no frontrunner with her who had gone through what she has gone through. there is no frontrunner and any other party at any other time that would not have generated a strong field of rivals. she is not, with respect to john webb, she has not generated an a team a tier of a candidates going after her. they are seen as invulnerable and it is because of the history. they have proven incredibly tenacious and able to bull through controversies in epic ways. >> richard, they've been through controversies before much bigger than this. >> yes. >> the stakes actually were much higher when they were in the white house and much more difficult because personal and they did. they plowed right through it. but hillary clinton's campaign is certainly not oblivious to. this the people around her are so concerned about this. and the moral of "the new york times" report tomorrow she's trying to put the trust issue into a more favorable light for her. i guess that is really the critical goal tomorrow. >> actually i think two things. one is campaigns are individuals under attack. a lot depends upon their ability and willingness to just get through it. so much of history, whether it's governments or politicians under attack and what is interesting is that it's not just the strength of the attacks, it's the willingness and ability of people to just soldier on. >> compare 1988 gary hart who put up with intrusive questions for a day and a half and then said enough of this i'm going home. and clinton in 1992. it underlines your point. gary hart still looks at bill clinton -- he was like this. that guy got elected four years after i was drummed out of public service? >> exactly. >> but clinton kept up. >> the other thing if you're hillary clinton, it seems to me one thing she is doing is really focus on policy. one of the things -- rather than talking about trust, i actually think every day, every week they ought to start talking about policy issues and change the conversation. otherwise, it's going to be politics that's going to be dominating. >> so we're going to continue this conversation with chuck todd and steve carnacki in a few minutes. the white house is not ruling out sending even more american troops to iraq. just days after announcing 450 additional military advisors are being deployed to train iraqis fighting isis. it will be part of a lily pad strategy. >> all right. it's a lily pad strategy. >> mini bases where forces are spread around the country a bit more. >> bad idea? >> it's irrelevant idea. this is when you're not willing to face up to the realities and instead you feel the need to do something. this is the alternative. >> so let's follow up on this conversation with -- go to capitol hill with our friend democratic congressman keith ellis ellison. great to see you. i was asking the question where do progressives go as they open up "the new york times" and see on the front page that obama administration is xbandingexpanding america's presence in iraq. you have republicans that you're saying he's not doing enough. and you've got hillary clinton who probably will not speak out against this strategy. what do progressives do? >> well there's a real fear about mission creek here. look, we know why they're doing it. you have seen isis go into ramadi and other places. they seem to be not being pushed back. so we're taking this action. is this the right action given you have a sectarian conflict. you have a regional dispute going on between saudi arabia and iran. and is 450 or however many they get going to solve the problem? if it doesn't, are we going to go deeper and go more? mission creek is a real risk here. >> so do you agree with the president's approach so far? >> i mean honestly i would have done a no fly zone in syria way back. i think that assad is the heart of the problem. i think that -- so i guess i have some suppositions that are funneled fundamentally, i wouldn't have got then far down the road. >> richard haas is agreeing with you. he shakes his head at lily pads. >> couldn't it be hot pocket or something? lily pad? what? >> jeremy peters? >> nod of approval here. >> go back to the beginning of the year and what issues congress was supposed to take up. i think the authorization of military force and the debate over iraq and what we should be doing in syria and iraq was going to be one of the biggest things if not the biggest thing congress did all year. what's happened to that? congress has really been missing in action. and that debate has completely dissipated. >> john boehner doesn't want to discuss it. i mean we've been pushing for a real solid debate to flush all the issues out and the aumf would be the occasion for it. but congress has simply advocated their role. i worry about the equal powers of the three branches of government. if we do not assert ourselves over time the executive will dominate us. and so we've got to dive into this conversation and shake the outcomes. we have legitimate points to make. are a what are we really doing given the sectarian nature of this thing? what is our national interest here? and what are these 400 going to do other than call for more later? so that's -- these -- the debate in congress would and could be really beneficial. i think we need to do it now. >> i thought the congressman made a good point which is we reached a situation now in iraq and syria where we have no good options. part of the problem is it wasn't inevitable it would have been this way. we had options three, four years ago. we didn't take them. things are deteriorating. and now the administration is forced to deal with the consequences of the own inaction in syria. i think one of the issues now is whether we try to reconstruct those options and begin to create some kind of a zone there from the air. it would take also people on the ground to protect it. it's a big step. i think that has to be something that administration thinks about. much more consequential than the lily pad strategy. >> all right. keith, thank you so much for being with us. >> congressman keith ellison. >> let's go to upstate new york. >> the man hunt for the two escaped murderers on the run this morning. police have intensified their search in a densely wooded area just a few miles from the brings after police dog picked up a scent of one or both of the escapees. as we reported sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell the prison employee being questioned by police was supposed to be the get away driver for the two men but got cold feet. joining us now live from dannemora, new york, stephanie gosk. we learned yesterday that joyce mitchell "thought she was in love with escapee richard matt." now we're hearing reports there may have been a relationship with the other prison david sweat as well. what can you tell us? >> yeah that's right. our sources told us that richard matt "charmed prison worker joyce mitchell" and now "the wall street journal" is reporting she was investigated by the prison for an alleged relationship with david sweat as well. >> reporter: she thought it was love say sources familiar with the investigation about the relationship between convicted killer richard matt and joyce mitchell. but accord together "wall street journal," prison officials suspected mitchell also had a relationship with david sweat. an investigation conducted in the last 12 months didn't find enough evidence to discipline mitchell. but the paper reports that sweat was moved out of her tailor shop. a former guard at clinton correctional told nbc news that some prisoners would target the weakest workers. civilian staffers like joyce mitchell were not considered as hardcore as the guards. the inmates even have a name for it grooming. >> prisoners are masters of manipulation. >> reporter: he is a former guard at sing sing. >> they're trying to get flirtation. because of the power differential. she has everything to lose and they have everything to gain. >> reporter: sources familiar with clinton correctional say the gain was generally small, cigarettes, food newspapers. but matt and sweat pushed mitchell for much more. sources close to the investigation tell nbc news mitchell was supposed to be the get away driver. but on the day of the escape the 51-year-old didn't show up. instead, checking herself into a hospital with a panic attack. so far there are no charges against mitchell. our sources tell us she's cooperating and she's actually talking a lot and potentially with information that could help in this search. but they also say that those charges are likely to come. >> oh, my goodness. stephanie gosk thank you very much. >> so we're already talking about you want to do the cast of this? this is unbelievable story. >> incredible. it really is like there is a strange affliction. >> there is no doubt it will be on msnbc "lockup." >> we're going to be talking to steve. gene can you stay for one more block? >> sure. sure. >> yeah. >> not a good time to say no to mika right now. >> i ain't doing that. don't say no to mika. >> i'm going to let richard haas off the hook. >> thank you. >> richard is sitting over here sweating. >> have you noticed that? >> when we were talking, he was just looking. he was the girl with the far away look in her eyes. >> no. i saw his look. i think you admire me for what i'm saying. >> he's going like this. he's going please don't call on me. i don't want -- >> nope. >> undercut the next commander in chief. >> it's not about that. >> that's not what he was thinking. still ahead on "morning joe," the army chief of staff general ray ordierno. we have a lot more politics to dig into with chuck todd and jeremy peters. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step. ortho bug b gon gives you season-long control of all these types of bugs. spectracide gives you season-long control... of just ants. their label says so. bugged by more than ants? get ortho bug b gon. the label tells the story. ortho home defense gives you year long control of all these household bugs - roaches, ants, and spiders. spectracide gives you year long control... of just roaches. their label says so. got more than roaches moving in? get home defense. the label tells the story. scott walker and marco rubio announced we're going to run as a ticket who will be at the top? do you think that is a gimmick or something that vote woerz say that is a strong team? >> i actually had quite a few people, grassroots supporters and others that made that suggestion. i think for now, you know marco is a quality kanld date. he will be foremidable in this case. if we were to get in then we will be as well. we'll see where things take us. >> you like the sound of walker-rubio? >> we joke about it that people mention it. we have to arm wrestle over who is top of the ticket. >> i want ten other states even though the party establishment was lined up against us so the idea that we can't go on and win, we did go on and win. we had a very strong message that was resonating with voters that we need to get if we're going to win this election. this is democrats, folks in the middle who are middle america who are seeing their wages flat lined, income falling and neither political party addressing them. >> that was mark halpern asking scott walk beret 2016 and rick santorum telling john heilman why he is a viable candidate the second time around. and now the host of up with steve cornacki and moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd and michael enandand gene robinson is back. >> gene is afraid mika will accuse him of not loving jesus. >> everyone look out. >> a bad day to quit sniffing glue. >> exactly. chuck todd i don't know where to start. >> we have a really interesting sound bite with bill clinton. we could roll that. >> you know see, that starts a 30 minute fight. chuck, have you watched any of mika's performance this morning? do i have to explain? >> i think it's been terrific. i nominate her again. >> okay. very good. >> there's no good answer. >> there is no good answer. i'm trying to think of a good question. >> it's dying -- play the dynasty theme music. that's all i'm thinking about. >> that's interesting. >> tomorrow you have hillary. monday, jeb. it's sort of like okay, here they come. the royal family pains. right? they're rolling out. >> let's not forget about donald trump on tuesday. >> oh, of course. speaking of royalty. >> thatting about a bigspeaking about royalty. >> and the clintons are doing it as roosevelt island. >> what does hillary have to do? >> the speech we're going to hear tomorrow is a more personal one. it's not something she is comfortable doing in the past. it is not something she is good at doing in the past. there was a headline last night that said maybe it's going to be more rodham than clinton, in terms of talking about her mother and her mother's path in life. i think it may have been one of the challenges for hillary clinton in 2008. it's a challenge she's always had a public communicator. there is a story about when she started for political office she went back to bill clinton one day and told him all these years i didn't appreciate how hard it was what you do as a campaigner and a public face. and now she is struggling. >> that is interesting, steve. everybody has their skills. their skill sets. pat buchanan talk about political athletes. you look at hillary and it's a fascinating situation. the first time i met her, right after i got up to washington, it was early '95. i campaigned against her all year. i sthed before. i went home and everybody is like what was she like? i said she kind of reminded me of a midwest methodist. but we said this two years ago when she puts that political helmet on that, facade goes. and she suddenly becomes uptight, sort of uptight person that there seems to be such a disconnect from the person and the politician. >> you hear that all the time. from people who had private encounters with her. if you could see, if you the voter could see what i saw, the woman that i saw, the person i saw, you'd have a completely different take on her. >> i said it repeatedly, i like her. >> i think her biggest strength as you're looking ahead to the marathon of a presidential race a year and a half whatever this is going to be. her biggest strength i think is perseverance. we're talking about her a few minutes ago on the show. she's willing to and she has shown through the years she's willing to stand there and take whatever is thrown at her. you have a plan? we're going to stick to the plan. fit means taking a bunch of hits, we'll do that. >> steve, we are -- you and i have talked nice about hillary for one minute and 15 seconds. mika's lip was curling like elvis' on ed sullivan. let's gomike who is jeb bush going after? you have an exclusive that jeb is going to go after some people on monday. who? >> before that? happy friday. >> happy friday my friend. >> and happy birthday to kevin sheiky and sally bradshaw jeb bush's senior adviser. she turns 50 today in florida. >> come on dude. just say happy birthday. >> we're proud of our ages. i'm 48. let's go on. >> happy birthday. >> happy birthday sally and kevin. >> and she points out she's in her 40s until noon. >> the thing you're hearing first on "morning joe" on jeb bush's speed on monday in mi am yishgs he's going to take a jab at the other senators in the race. he's going to start out in places you'd expect on his record as an education governor talking about how he became a conservative reformer in order to help people. he'll talk about sort of rand like about how republicans need to be campaigning in untraditional places like the minority campus that he'll be on at that moment. but then he's going to say you can't fix washington from inside washington. people inside washington can't fix it. so that's going right after the four senators in the race including marco, rand ted cruz and lindsey graham. >> fascinating. and i'll ask you what i asked about hillary. what is the goal for jeb on monday? a campaign seen by many in disarray before it even starts. >> he has a high bar and suddenly it's unclear. you have -- he's had nothing but bad press for the last month or so. you go back to the week long kind of kalamcalamity that was the attempt to end the iraq war, the fact that fund-raising is coming up short of what the goals were they originally set. >> he has $90 million. >> it doesn't matter. he'll still raise more money than any other republican by two or three time. at the same time, when you float a big number and then come up short, people do note that. then you've got all the stories about campaign disarray which have a the love people who are bush supporters and people in the republican establishment wondering what is going on. so he has this moment where what seemed at one point to be kind of a road speech suddenly a lot of eyes are on him to come out and make a very strong impression, not just on monday but in the days that follow. and try to kind of give the impression he has righted the ship. >> presidential campaigns are the most extraordinary. they reveal character. and they also reveal ability to be agile. i always talk about a maureen dowd column from 2008 talking about how the presidency changes a person because the facts always change so quickly. you have to see how people adapt. jeb is in a position where i said it before sh he was always the smartest guy in the room in tallahassee when he was governor. he is always the smartest guy in the room wherever he goes. but presidential campaigns are mammoth. i think so much of the problems we're seeing here is jeb's trying to do it all himself. because his entire life he's always been smarter than everybody around him. he's going to have to figure out how to turn over the reigns to people he trusts. when they screw up once or twice, he's going to have to stay with him. he can't do it all himself. >> i think his response, chuck todd, it is june. maybe shows that he expects to evolve on his own and that will is time. i don't know. >> i think it's interesting. when i talked to both campaigns recently about what has been a sluggish start hillary clinton and jeb bush let's be realistic. it's been on one hand, yes, behind the scenes they're going to raise the most money and all this stuff. but they both have been sort of -- it seems, struggling to sort of create momentum answer the why they're running question, all these things. and the answer from both sides is the same. well we're the candidates that's going to be prepared to grinld grind it out, go the long haul. you know we're not going to pay attention to what things are moving right now. this is about six being able to be in a position six months from now, 12 months from now. and you just wonder okay they're both grinlders. i buy that. i buy the idea they can grind their way to the nomination. but, boy that, is a joyless way to campaign. >> and -- >> and both of them look like they don't enjoy this. >> both of them do seem to be like they're in a joyless exercise. >> yeah. >> you know you keep waiting for one of them to catch a spark. but they got these questions to answer. they've got this overhang. hillary clinton has the whole clinton thing overhang. always going to be there much she's always going to be fighting through. the same with jeb bush. he has a whole dynasty question that he's always going to have to deal with. i don't know that they can find a simple easy way to dispose of all this baggage. >> i think that steve, hillary clinton has an easy way of disposing it she just doesn't talk about it. people don't care. >> the whole idea if hillary clinton, if the rest of the world see the hillary clinton that rest of the world sees behind the scenes you know you'd say she failed to do that. you start to wonder. i want to say one thing on this bush thing. joe, maybe you appreciate this coming from florida. i look at bush right now and i keep asking myself the same question. is this a guy who is just running in the wrong year? if you think back i'm thinking back 20 years to florida. to florida in 1994. jeb bush running for governor in florida. it was george w. bush running for governor in texas. the question is which one of the guys is going to win and move into line to be the republican candidate in 2000? it is always supposed to be jeb. >> everybody said steve, you're right. if jeb won fwhin '94, he would have been the president in 2000. >> what the republican party was looking for is jeb bush. i don't think they're looking noor for that in 2016. >> i don't either. jeb bush as governor i remember him being torn to sledshreds in '94 for being a right-wing nut job. jeb bush poses the greatest risk to conservatives since nelson rockefeller. i spit my coffee out. jeb's record in florida was so conservative. >> you know your party changed. >> not that much. >> it changed a bit. here is my question for you. you know mike just talked about the fact that there would be some -- at least a shot at some of jeb's rivals in the announceme in. t speech. and there is reporting that in some of the stories about campaign turmoil that they're thinking about going negative enn. a more direct way after they launched. doesn't that seem a little dangerous to you for this campaign to start talking this early about going negative? >> i don't think they need to go negative at all. i think jeb has -- i do. i think jeb has a great record for conservatives out of florida. and that's what he's got to do. don't tear the other people down. tell people what you've done. trust they'll come you to. >> you have one more item before we go? >> a sign of confidence by jeb and maybe sign that he's turning the corner from that grinld itd it out campaign you were talking about to the joyful campaign he wants. he had a flawless trip to europe which other republican candidates have had trouble doing. he's relaxed. he met with the reporters off the record. and a sign of confidence something people hadn't predicted and this is a scoop from "morning joe" right after his announcement tuesday, he'll go to new hampshire. but wednesday to iowa where people were afraid he wouldn't go. so republicans are going to be very excited that he's going to do -- make that trip. >> why do i think jeb's odds on favorite and going to win this thing? because he's going to have the most money. and he can stand in front of microphones for five hours and answer questions and answer them well. he went to europe. other republicans have gone to europe. gone to israel and have been afraid to talk to reporters once. i think at the end of the day, the skill and smarts and money carries him over. >> mike allen, thank you so much. steve, thank you. my lip was not curling. >> she was quivering. >> i think that people don't want to really talk about the real questions. >> steve, thank you as well. >> thank you. >> good to be here. >> make sure you watch steve's coverage of mika and clinton's rollout tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. that will be exciting. we'll be watching "up." what do you have on sunday on "meet the press"? >> we'll be doing the dynasty rollouts mitt romney who has the big con fab of kanld dates. we have campaign chair of hillary and we're going to talk about iraq a lot of what is going on. there. >> all right. chuck todd, that will be "meet the press" this sunday. gene, we'll let you go now. >> okay. see you next week. >> thank you, gene. >> up next the chief of staff for the u.s. army general ray ordierno is our guest next. my school reunion. i don't know. who wants to play in idaho? gotta get milwaukee up to speed. we win in flint, we take the lead. we'll close the deal if we just show... when it's go, go to the new choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. choicehotels.com you know, in any job any profession image matters. i want some gray...but not too much. only touch of gray uses oxygen to gently blend away some gray but not all for that perfect salt and pepper look. satisfaction guaranteed. just you and the look you want. just for men touch of gray you are looking at two airplane fuel gauges. can you spot the difference? 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>> we do, indeed. >> it's unfair. you bring one of my old instructors in when i'm getting ready to do an interview. i'm nervous now. >> good. we'll make you revert a little bit emotionally. wear you down. >> terrible guy? >> no. >> straight out of "officer and a gentleman." >> he used to jump on the desk to make him feel taller. >> that is true actually. >> that's hysterical. >> it's going to be that kind of interview. >> okay. >> i was caught one time by the dean of the military academy of west point standing on a desk in his teaching international relations demonstrating parachute landing falls. >> you had to he's so tall. all right. front page of "the new york times." thank youing about an expanded strategy. most military analysts say it's a smart idea. >> what's new about it? >> but there's concern among politicians about mission creek. >> i don't think it's mission creek. what i would say is that an expansion of the current policy of attempting to train additional iraqi forces. by putting more bases out, they're trying to reach out to the sunnis. frankly, what's happened inside of iraq is you have a shia army. >> yeah. >> you have a kurdish army. you have no sunnis participating. and that's the fundamental problem. and so what they're trying to do slet is let's get people close to them, train them. >> but we've been trying to train iraqi troops obviously, since 2003. >> yeah. i would say this. so you know 2010-11 when we left, we had a national army that included shia kurds, sunnis. we had leaders from all three. since then the last two, three years, they got rid of all the sunni leaders. they got rid of all the sunni that's were in the army. you now have an army that is not, you know 2014 we didn't have an army represented. >> there is no success in iraq without sunni buying in? >> you have to have a national army. and the national army has got to be including everybody. >> okay. but what is different about this strategy that gives either of you a sense of -- is hope even the word -- that we're going to actually maybe get a handle on this and be able to push back the threat of isis? >> instructor? >> well? >> general will tell you i'm an extremist. i'm going to go big or go home. and we have been working on this for a long time. and time is one of the things that we don't pay very much attention to. we talk about the number of troops and what they're going to do and where the bases are and so on. i'm mindful of the notion that everything takes time and much more time than you think it does. i harp back to something general mcchrystal said some years ago and when he said that was going to -- things like this take decades. the real question is do we have the political will to undertake whatever we're going to undertake in the region knowing that if you do it the right way can you actually get it done. but that independent variable is time? do we have the political will? >> are the troops, general, concerned about that? they've been giving their all since 2003. and do they -- are they looking over their shoulder wonldering eringwondering if the american people are supporting them? >> that's important to any soldier. you want to be supported by the people. they'll go do anything they're asked to do. when we first started, the president said five years. three to five years. and, frankly, it's three, five ten years. it's a long-term problem. one of the things that i think is important, this can't be a u.s. problem only. we need the nations and the region to step up and be part of the solution. because just the u.s. goes in and solves this problem, you won't solve the problem. it's got to be solved by those who live in the region. you certainly need to be there to enable them and help them to do that. or we'll end up right back where we are now. >> how do you convince them to do that? i have a theory that 450 additional troops in an advisory role is one of those things where you don't want to convince the neighbors in the region you're carrying the load. is that right, one way to convince them by not going so far in that they say the u.s. can handle it all? >> that's part of it. 450 is a step to get more people where the sunnis are to train them. as general dempsey said we might add more later on. what we don't want it to be perceived of is we're going to go in and fight this fight for them. they've got to do it in the region. we're willing to enable them. now, if ten years from now we believe there's a threat absolute existential threat to the united states that's a different issue. >> i'll take it one step further. i want to say this. we used military issued powers a default instrument of power, and one of the things we need to do in order to convince our allies in the region that they need to shoulder the burden is to be much better at the diplomatic power. military power can't be the power always. >> happy 240th birthday. not you, the army. thank you very much. you're here in town for that. >> we have a times square celebration. >> the army has done so much obviously, over 240 years, but a disproportionate burden has been put on the army since 2003. thong for all you've done and everybody that serves under you. >> thank you. >> jack jacobs. thank you as well. >> enough of that standing on the desk. >> i am standing on it. >> you're hilarious. up next why an honor student is facing a decade behind boors instead of celebrating graduation from high school. that story straight ahead. stay with us. the beast was as long as the boat. for seven hours, we did battle. until i said... you will not beat... meeeeee!!! greg. what should i do with your fish? 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>> we'll be talking more about that. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on the ongoing manhunt for the two escaped prisoners as rumors swirl that both inmates may have been involved with the supervisor. >> plus hillary clinton getting ready for her kickoff rally in new york. we'll look at why comment by bill clinton may cause her problems on the campaign trail or might not at all. and we'll be right back. it begins from the second we're born. after all, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned... every day... from the smallest detail to the boldest leap. healthier means using wellness to keep away illness... knowing a prescription is way more than the pills... and believing that a single life can be made better by millions of others. ♪ ♪ healthier takes somebody who can power modern health care... by connecting every single part of it. realizing cold hard data can inspire warmth and compassion... and that when technology meets expertise... everything is possible. for as long as the world keeps on searching for healthier... we're here to make healthier happen. optum. healthier is here. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge. ortho bug b gon gives you season-long control of all these types of bugs. spectracide gives you season-long control... of just ants. their label says so. bugged by more than ants? 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"usa today" article, all in the family. they take a deep dive in to the clintons and the bushes and then the twitter chief out. i use twitter. i don't follow the business of it that much. anybody here know why he's out? >> i think financials. >> i can tell you. >> a little bit of money. >> twitter misses a goal. i guess, you know i say i don't know much about this. i know enough. i watch silicon valley every week. by the way really good season premiere this week. mike judge, great. >> let's go to upstate new york the manhunt for the two escaped murders at large. six days since david sweat and richard matt were discovered missing from the maximum security prison in dannemora, new york. on thursday police intensified their search in a densely wooded area just a few miles from the prison after a police dog picked up the scent of one or both of the escapees. as we reported at the end of yesterday's show sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news that joyce mitchell, the prison employee being questioned by police was supposed to be the getaway driver for the two men but that she got cold feet and instead -- >> you were worried about this from the very beginning, that somebody had maybe manipulated her. >> it sounds like that's exactly what what happened from the little information being released now, and add to that equation this is a maximum security prison. no metal detectors. that's how the power tools -- right? and you probably bring them in piece by piece. >> have you read much about this guy's background richard matt? >> they're bad. there's bad, and then there's -- >> she's hannibal lector. that's who got out. this guy was so dangerous when they brought him in for trial, they had to have a sharp shooter on the roof of the courthouse double the security presence in the courtroom, they had to remove the glass because they were afraid he should shatter it and use the shards as weapons. >> the question is mika you can't put this on a seamstress. why is he in the good behavior ward of the prison? why don't we get this answer and so many more from our own stephanie gosk. >> joining us live from dannemora, new york stephanie gosk. what's the scene like there this morning, first of all? >> hey, good morning, guys. this is a major road in this area. it's closed for the second day in a row. schools in this area are closed for the second day in a row, and the search zone you mentioned is still being searched. it's still in lockdown after they picked up the scent. you were talking about what happened behind the walls of that prison. we spoke to a former prison guard who said there's actually a word for what inmates do to some of the prison workers, and they call it grooming. it's about getting in good with prison workers so that you get some kind of benefit. now, generally, it's small. cigarettes or food or whatever. but in this case with joyce mitchell, it appears to have been much more than that. and the sources close to the investigation are telling us much more about her and her relationship to these two inmates. what would cause someone to risk it all to spring two convicted killers from prison? sources close to the investigation say joyce mitchell told authorities, quote, she thought it was love. there are news reports she was previously investigated for an improper relationship with one of the two inmates. toby mitchell defended his mother earlier this week. >> she is not the kind of person that's going to risk her life or other people's lives to let these guys escape from prison. >> the two convicts popped out of this manhole cover some time between midnight on saturday and 5:00 in the morning. nbc news joyce mitchell was supposed to be their getaway driver. when they got out, she was nowhere to be found. sources close to the investigation said she got a case of cold feet. her first husband who hasn't spoken to her in nearly lyly 20 years believes she could have been manipulated. >> she's from a small town. she could be a country girl who got sweet talked. >> mitchell isn't the first prison worker to get emotionally tangled with convict. in new mexico a guard admitted he had multiple affairs with female prisoners. inmates can be cunning. >> they will try to get you down that slippery slope. they will ask for a little favor, and then a bigger favor, and then a bigger fafr. until all of a sudden they feel they have their hooks, their claws into you. >> mitchell may have been hooked, but in the final hour, it appears she left these two convicts high and dry. >> nbc's sources tell us it was the older inmate richard matt that actually charmed joyce mitchell, but the "wall street journal" is reporting there was an investigation done by clinton correctional in the last 12 months investigating whether or not mitchell also had an improper relationship with david sweat. so with both of these convicts the relationships she had is definitely under scrutiny. >> you're saying there's a possibility of two relationships here stephanie? >> that's exactly right. >> okay. if you're scoring at home we're going to have to -- we don't understand. jeremy peters who is talking about how bad these guys were and we don't understand any word on why they were in the wing that was for -- >> honor. >> -- the honor wing for well behaved inmates? >> one of the things they say is that determination actually happens once they're inside the prison. it's based on the behavior of the inmate inside the prison. not what they actually were convicted for, and are serving time for. so regardless of what they did, they are then determined from i guess they get a kind of clean slate when they walk through and get put in the honor ward. it raises some obvious questions. is that really the best policy? should what they did and what got them there in the first place somehow have some weight carry some weight as far as how they're treated inside? another question they have to look at is the influence that inmates have over prison workers. now, it's obvious lenot all of them, and in part of their training they're told how to deal with inmates trying to get close to them. they're not supposed to reveal personal information because these guys have a lot of time on their hands, and some of them are incredibly cunning. >> stephanie gosk thank you so much. >> thank you stephanie. unbelievable. >> we have to get to politics now. hillary clinton formally kicked off her 2016 campaign tomorrow with a major speech in new york city. the "new york times" reports she will evoke franklin roosevelt. speaking from an island named for the 32nd president and liberal icon but clinton's speech could end up disappointing the democrats' progressive base. the "washington post" reports it will focus on personal stories and shy away from policy specifics. bill clinton said yesterday he's unsure if donors to his foundation sought favors from the state department. >> we're all sort of laughing and chuckling because all you have to do is say what george stephanopoulos said everybody who wrote a check, including george stephanopoulos wanted to get something out of them. >> it strikes me as fair lyly loyal to say i'm not sure so it doesn't come back to bite you. >> he's confident whatever the motives were he and his wife were unaware. >> they're blissfully unaware of everything and they don't keep lists. oh, wait they do. >> can you really say that these companies, these wealthy individuals, these governments, none of them sought anything? i mean some of them did have business before the state department? >> you never know what people's motives are. in this case i'm pretty sure people gave to haiti in the aftermath of the earthquake saw what they saw on television were horrified, and wanted to make a difference. >> you say you don't know if anybody sought any favor. >> no, and i don't think hillary would know either. she's pretty busy those years. and i don't -- i never saw her study a list of my contributors or, and i had no idea who was doing business before the state department. >> say it on the air. >> no. >> say it on the air. you know what i always say stuff on the air. that's kind of what makes this show this show is you say things, you jump off the cliff. >> i'm just curious why you're so nervous in marco rubio's driveway? >> as opposed to this? >> they're not mutually exclusive. >> there are absolutely legitimate questions about how he handled his finances because if you look at his history, this is a guy who has always interacted in an intertube of the rule. his finances raise a larger question about his judgment and his good sense and whether or not he's somebody who can kind of manage the way he claims he can. >> mika's bigger point, the bigger point is with bill clinton going out there, well go ahead. you need to explain on the air what you said off the air. >> i want to know what hillary clinton needs to do saturday to try to put this behind her because what screams out to me but of course we're in the industry of analyzing, of covering this. i got it. of looking for the questions. and asking them. and the questions scream out at me, what in the world happened with the foundation and these ulterior motives and the money and the e-mail server? those scream out at me. when i look forward to saturday i want to hear it but i don't understand how bill clinton can get onstage and say maybe some people had ulterior motives and we're going to be like okay let's cover marco rubio's driveway. i'm sure it's fine. it's fine. >> for bill clinton to say hillary was busy she doesn't keep lists, when you could read 1,000 stories about hillary didn't know what was going on? the clintons keep lists. there have been one story after another story about somebody who slighted them 14 years ago that are still on a list. >> i think the problem here, even for the biggest clinton defenders is you know it goes back to the e-mails. even if they're totally innocent the fact they erased their server doesn't allow you to draw that innocence. the strategy is to have bill clinton deal with the messy stuff. you talk about the foundation. hillary won't take those questions as much as she can't, and then we'll do this. >> is it better for him to fum fumble over it than to have her fumble over it? >> if you're under the belief that there's no good way to handle these questions, that you're going to fumble regardless of who is answering, let him do it. >> is he a trial balloon? we'll go out and have the guy who is better than anybody else doing it and see what sticks and doesn't stick. and what mika is going to get angry about and not angry about. >> is he really invested anymore? we have seen him flub a few questions. >> this is such a horrible -- there's no good answer. that's why hillary has been on lockdown and in bubble wrap for the last three months. >> wouldn't you say if there's no good answer or if the good answer has been scrubbed and it would have been fine to show the e-mails and it's unfortunate for them, i don't know. wouldn't you say get it over with? get out there, answer the questions, let them come. get bruised up. keep going. >> i think that's what they're doing now, as much as they can with bill clinton answering the questions. gr that seems kind of sneaky. >> i think we have talked through this and figured out there is no good answer. they're butting bill clinton out there because he's better at it than anyone else and it's tough for him to talk through it. >> my question is for our viewers. why is it okay while hillary clinton was secretary of state, there were all these trades going on and ulterior mote chbs and even tv news personalities giving money? i don't -- >> i think it's a real problem for the clinton campaign. >> maybe not. it doesn't seem to be. >> in the long run, she's unable to do what bush does which is stand in front of microphones, answer 200 questions. if she stands up there, you're going to see hillary clinton, and she's not as good at this as her husband, says most people. she's there in front of a microphone, and the first person says, your husband got $550,000 for making a 45-minute speech in front of x at the same time that they were in the state department and you were doing y. is that proper? and then she fumbles through that. and then somebody asks the next question. i don't know that there's ever going to be a good time for her to stand in front of microphones and answer questions. >> my questions are, and i'll speak personally, i grew up in a family where i saw how a lot of this works from the inside. i'm still in one where i know how ethics and rules and protocol must be followed like to the tee, down to $50 gifts. and so i think i'm kind of flummoxed by it at the same time. i want to see the first woman president of the united states in my lifetime. i would like to see a democrat win the next election. i'm going to be transparent. i would like to see her be able to answer these questions and for there to be a good answer. but i'm not going to pretend the questions don't exist. >> that's the essential paradox of her candidacy, right? this historic nature of it and there was eight years ago, but there are elements of her character and her policy positions, let's not just make it about the foundation, that are deeply not irritating but troubling. >> i feel like there's a real conflict. >> the thing is, you talked about your past growing up with your father in the white house. we don't have to go back to the '70s. we can look at the fact -- >> my brother is the ambassador to sweden. >> you can't give your sister-in-law shoes. >> i can't give her shoes. >> because they say that's improper. >> that's right. >> so if a relative can't give a sister-in-law shoes that don't fit her because her brother works in the state department why can the secretary of state at the same time have a husband who can make $550,000 in a speech that may look like there's an impropriety attached to foreign policy decisions made in the state department? that and many more questions will be answered. >> and maybe it doesn't matter. that's why question for everyone. >> still ahead on "morning joe," mitt romney may once again be the most important man in politics this weekend. >> we go live to park city utah, where the one-time nominee is additioning the gop's next crop of presidential contenders. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> that was nice. kind of gentle on this friday. good morning, everyone. summer it's all over the map. we have barely any signs of spring left. get ready for more rain oklahoma and texas. likely isolated severe cleveland, indianapolis detroit, buffalo, syracuse rochester and up to the capital. now, today's forecast it's going to be hot in the southeast and mid-atlantic and stay hot and if anything get hotter into next week. the worst storms oklahoma city to chicago. saturday, the forecast looks perfect. the beautiful weather, northern plains all the way to the northwest. hot in the desert southwest and interior california will be warm this weekend. on sunday that's when we start the big -- atlanta is going to be mid-90s, but near south carolina lower portions of georgia, that's when we start to get to the upper 90s and next week, a few spots will hit 100 for the first time as summer is going coast to coast. we'll leave you with a shot of a hazy new york in the upper 80s through the weekend. enjoy. latches onto your finger so hard it's like she's saying i love you. that's why aveeno's oat formula is designed for your baby's sensitive skin. aveeno®. naturally beautiful babies. there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill? 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at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before. innovation and you. philips sonicare. my name is jose lopez. i'm a troubleman in san francisco. i've been with the company for 29 years. a troubleman restores and troubleshoots electrical issues, getting customers' power back on. we're 24/7, 365 days a year. i love my job. going up in the bucket and seeing all of san francisco, it's an exhilarating feeling. i was born and raised in san francisco. this is where i live and there's a sense of pride in providing great power to our customers. when i go out there and get their power back on, there's a great sense of satisfaction. together, we're building a better california. well while you were away and while we were away we just had the best segment of the morning. >> what? >> with mika and jeremy and sam all in a cat fight. >> well. >> it was great. >> jeremy is being a little difficult, i think. >> difficult? >> i think he is. >> what do you mean? >> i think he's got a little too much -- i don't know. you work for the "new york times." >> mika you said -- you said if this happened to a republican -- >> i do feel the campaign would be dead. >> you think the "new york times" is underreporting the story. >> it does not feel like anybody has the gut to report on this story and it's coming out because it has to. >> we just went through like three weeks of coverage. >> nobody wants to hear it. >> this is the first i heard -- >> what don't they want to hear? >> this is the first i have heard someone say the "new york times" hasn't covered hillary clinton enough. >> look there have been pops of this story that have gone away. tell me why, jeremy. >> i think it's because this is built into the cake with the clintons. >> i'm sorry, what? >> there have been questions about propryty and whether or not they skirt the rules and whether or not they're too legalistic, it dependents on the definition of is is. so i think that this these allegations -- >> so don't cover it because it's built into the cake? >> i think we the "new york times," and lots of other news organizations are covering this exhaustively. it's harder for these kinds of allegations and questions to stick to her when they have been exhausted for 20 years. >> on the other side too, look at the george stephanopoulos side of the story. brian williams tells a couple of tall tales which no guy ever does. no guy ever exaggerates what he's done. it reminds me when i was in congress and i knew that i had to scale with my bare hands to the top of the capitol dome. dudes do that. brian obviously, some real concerns, blah blah blah. he's being taken care of. they're talking about it. george stephanopoulos actually does something that impacts coverage of the biggest story of that week. he goes and he rakes an author over the coals. rakes him over the coals, tears him to shreds talks really fast and says we have done an investigation at abc news we found out -- and then like there's a day or two of russelling and then it goes away. now, there are just a lot of people who say, why is it that the clintons and the clintonistas live by a standard that nobody else does? i guarantee you, martin o'malley would be out if this happened to him. bernie sanders would be out if it happened to him. it happens to the clintons and as mika says everybody is like -- >> you're in congress? >> see? >> i never talk about that. it was right after i was an all-star shortstop. >> what in the world. go ahead. >> let's talk about just one arm of the clintons' problem, the complete lack of transparency about the e-mails and the records. >> which is okay with everybody. >> it's not okay. >> it's okay with your paper. okay with the "huffington post." >> you say that a republican would be out, gone. >> gone. >> if you recall mitt romney just to make this parallel was raked over the coals for a lack of transparency when it came to his tax returns. if i recall he managed to be the republican nominee. i don't agree with the premise. >> did he release them? >> one year. one year. >> by the way, very legal. >> better than -- >> that's all legal. no impropriety. you had harry reid lying through his teeth about him and admitting he lied about him not paying taxes. with all due respect, i don't think it's a parallel? >> i don't think it's a big enough issue. i also disagree. i think the idea we haven't been covering this is silly. >> if he was running for president and wiped his e-mail server clean, tell me exactly what you two would do? you would not stop talking about it. >> the idea that we haven't been covering clinton is silly. we're talking about it today on a television program. >> we're covering it but you don't care. you don't care and you don't care. >> i'm surprised by this criticism myself. i have never heard anyone say the "new york times" doesn't cover hillary clinton. >> here we go. hold on. i got an announcement. like a theater. playing the role of joe scarborough this morning, mika brzezinski. >> oh, no. no. >> what's happening? >> it's freaky friday. it's rich. >> i'm just -- >> girls, know your value. >> okay. >> freaky friday. we switched. go team. t. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? 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>> it's a constant problem here at this prison, they have 585 prisoners. in maximum security, half of them are lifers. according to the veteran corrections officers and the staff here those folks that many of them who know they're never going to get out, are like conmen constantly trying to find a weakness to exploit. it was inevitable the escape in new york has prompted prison authorities across the country, including here altt iowa state penitentiary to reexample the way things are done. >> we had a lockdown due to an escape attempt at this institution. >> do you think that's because they were encouraged by what they heard in new york? >> i don't know for sure. it's certainly what it could be. >> as in the movies like "the green mile." >> can you understand? >> yes i think i can. >> corrections officers daily inaction with inmates are a balancing act. share too much information and an inmate smells vulnerability. >> i know you have something going on. marriage on the rocks. anything i can do? >> they try to connect? >> they play on that rapport. >> use it as your weakness and their position of power. >> in the netflix show "orange is the new black" inmates use every emotional trick to compromise those in charge especially when it's men and women. >> it's kind of a catch-22 when you're trying to be empathetic with them they try to turn it around and use it against you. >> they're trying to manipulate? >> absolutely. >> it's why corrections officers not only watch over inmates but also each other. prison experts say every inmate sitting in a cell like this wonders the same thing, even if they're not going to act on it how to escape. ingenuity in prison is amazing. >> larry was an inmate in federal prison for 11 years. he's now turned his life around and helps troubled teens. >> believe me it's pretty easy to get into a relationship and get hooked up with a guard. >> here in iowa as another prison's inmates are kept busy in workshops, the reasoning -- less time to plan escapes. >> if a tool goes missing? >> nobody goes back to the cell. everybody is searched. place is searched. it's shut down until it's found. >> here they let us in because they're proud of the way the operations work. a prison that was built in 1839 seven years before iowa was even a state. joe, to your question what sort of contraband? on a regular basis at prisons here and across the nation there are people from the outside who do smuggle in things like marijuana, bring in things like alcohol, and ultimately cash is still king. money has value. and so it's possible when we're talking about what may have been smuggled into the prison in upstate new york that it was something like that and of course, that value could then be traded for other things. here, those prison tools aren't just placed on racks. there's a shadow outline of every prison tool. you can look at the rack and say, that's missing. we have to find it. as you heard, when a tool goes missing here they lock the place down and nothing is going forward until they find that missing piece of equipment. >> wow. >> all right. >> kerry, he got out. when that door closed i was a little concerned. >> nbc prison all right. >> he always puts us right in there. kerry, thank you very much. >> still ahead, casey hunt joins us live from park city as republican hopefuls flock to mitt romney's annual gop event. and the washington post reports on the one thing that may be key to baltimore's resurgence in the wake of the recent riots. that story and much more when "morning joe" comes right back. you know our new rope has actually passed all the tests. we're ready to start with production. ok, are you doing test markets like last time? uh, no we're going to roll out globally. ok. we'll start working on some financing options right away. thanks, joe. oh, yeah. it's a game-changer for the rock-climbing industry. this is one strong rope! huh joe? oh, yeah it's incredible! how you doing team? jeff you good? [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. 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it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more. you've heard of a "win-win," right? what about a "win-win-win"? pick up the limited edition metallic droid turbo by motorola. water-repellent. up to 48-hour battery life and ballistic nylon back. that's your first "win." plus, it's only on verizon. the #1 network. there's your next "win." now for final "win." get $250 when you trade in any smartphone. and get 10 gigs of data for $80 a month and $15 per line. the win-win-win. a new way to save without settling. only on verizon. former governor mitt romney is bringing together 2016 hopefuls and donors this weekend in utah. and joining us from park city msnbc political correspondent casey hunt and casey, it must be cold there. what advice is mitt giving the candidates behind closed doors? >> it's a little chilly here. one of those early mountain mornings. a bunch of attendees off playing flag football right now with marco rubio, which is kind of the highlight of the weekend. they have essentially taken over this luxury resort and are going to be doing things like that all day. romney has been talking one by one with the candidates. there was a reception last week. scott walker marbo rubio, lindsey graham chatting up the attendees. a lot of these donors. yes, they were with romney, but they have started to splinter. that's the challenge for romney whether he can hold a group together enough that he maintains some of the power he wants to keep in the race. if you think about how big this field is it's also a little bit of playing for second choices. even if some of the donors are already committed, this is still a chance for the candidates to talk to them and say hey, i realize you're already with that guy, but if that doesn't work out for you, consider me. >> if you're out there at mitt romney's event, you can play flag football with marco rubio. if you go on the "morning joe" with joe and mika you can play parcheesi with sam stein. it's bigger. >> i never played flag football. >> really? >> you know, on a serious note i think it's -- >> that's not serious? >> depends on who you're asking what channel you're watching. i think it's smart of romney to try to be the elder of the party and have a resurgence. he's young. what is he going to do next as opposed to being the person everyone turns to for events like this. >> i would guess, casey, one candidate that is not a lot of love for out there is jeb bush who elbowed him out of the race not so long ago. >> bush of course he was invited. he's not here because he's still on the european tour. actually, one of his sons is here, potentially representing him. but yeah notable tension between the two camps. i thought it was pretty interesting that romney was publicly willing to forgive jeb bush for making campaign stumbles saying, hey, we make mistakes. there's been a lot of back and forth between those two. rubio is somebody a lot of people who were with romney in 2012 like now. they remember him as a hard working and generous surrogate willing to go wherever whenever and packed a lot of rooms for them. that's a relationship to watch. >> casey hunt thank you so much. and also mitt romney will be joining us live on "morning joe" on monday. so we look forward to that. >> and carly fiorina will be on the show. >> and now to the city of baltimore, following the city's riots following the death of freddie gray. joining us, francis. her new piece for the paper looks at the resurgence of baltimore's arts district and why it's playing a key role in the city's revitalization. tell us about it. recently, i was speaking in a museum at baltimore to about 400 women on leadership and know your value. i have to say i was blown away by the arts community there. >> right, well, i think you were probably at the american visionary arts museum which is a wonderful institution. the place i was looking at is station north, which was designated in 2002 by the state of maryland an arts and entertainment district. it's been providing a wonderful diverse community with a lot of small projects brought together and centered around the schools that are based there. mika, which is the maryland institute college of art, has really brought an awful lot of investment and young people of interest into the area and hopkins, as you probably know and the university of baltimore. those three institutions surrounding an area that has pop-up performance spaces cafes, a wonderful theater called the charles theater for indy movies among others. there's a lot going on there. new housing for artists and other things creating a very diverse community. racially, economically, and other ways too. a marvelous example of what can happen in an urban environment. and a mile from where the disasters happened after freddie gray's death. >> for some cities it's sort of best to be a well kept secret. that's not the case for baltimore. since the riots, even the few people i met when they say they're from baltimore, there's sort of an oh react. how do you change that dynamic? >> this is key, this area i'm talking about is just by the station. you get out of the train now and your amtrak train from new york or washington which of course are communities that are very hard for an artist to break into because it's so expensive. you get to baltimore, and you see all this activity going on. you have apartment buildings going up, pop-up performance spaces. i drove past one last night. blue and white flags, people on the street making an area that had been considered unsafe by many safe and walkable. hopkins and mica are started a joint film studies program. that will bring people from the streets, restaurants, and change the neighborhood in a way that invites people from outside to come to baltimore instead of being frightened of it. >> i understand all that but can you explain a little bit, this is sam, by the way, can you explain how they're taking people in the inner city perhaps on a different track than the artist track, and bringing them into this system to give them a job or give them some sort of hope for the future? >> key points. absolutely. so one of the institutions that's developed here in fact two. a public charter school a building that was used in "the wire" and was then a homeless shelter and now you go outside and there are kids playing, kids from the neighborhood. it has a strong commitment to the neighborhood playing out with chickens and the new garden and a design school, a public school started that will focus on design. one of the companies coming in is called sparky pants, a computer gaming company. they're talking about having internships and taking local kids and giving them training to help them get jobs. >> francis, thank you so much. my daughter she mentioned hopkins. my daughter goes there. there was no point where she was more connected with baltimore than right after the riots when a whole bunch of students went to the cvs that was burned to the ground and started to clean up. there was a certain moment of opportunity in the depths of despair to bring that together. >> we're coming up on the tenth anniversary of katrina. it certainly happened in new orleans. >> up next a second opinion on this morning's big medical stories. and president and ceo of the mayo clinic joins the table. at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step. there was a certain moment of mayo clinic joins the table. ♪ ♪ when you're living with diabetes steady is exciting. only glucerna has carbsteady clinically proven to help minimize blood sugar spikes. so you stay steady ahead. welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow. and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house! 51 past. joining us now, the president and ceo of the mayo clinic it's a pleasure to have you back on the show. good to see you again. where do we start? can you tell us about this relationship with walmart? >> i would be happy to. we had an exclusive relationship with walmart for 18 years. we do their transplants, and they have recognized that it's important to them and to their employees that they get great care quickly so they can get back to work. recently, they have extended that coverage to include three very important cancers, breast lung, and kolo rectal cancers and if you're an employee at walmart and you get one of these conditions walmart will pay for an evaluation at mayo clinic and all treatment and evaluations necessary, including traveling to the mayo clinic with a caretaker. >> wow. >> they'll cover everything. they recognize the importance of their emploipys getting back to work. >> it makes a lot of sense because you specialize in complex cares. it's a tight fit. >> it makes a good fit. >> most people wouldn't think that of walmart, that they would provide such a service. >> are there any other employers? are you looking to branch out? >> it's one of the early ones. they were first on the block to do this. a number of groups are doing that. we're working with a number of large employers now because they recognize that health care is expensive, and complex health care is very expensive and it's important to get it right the first time. >> right. >> so they have recognized over 18 years that the best transplant is the transplant you don't need. it's been a good relationship and it raises awareness, i hope of the importance of the decisions that consumers are making. a lot of consumers are making their decisions ss based on the fact, i hope i stay well this year. i'm going to by a low-cost, high-deductible health care plan and if they get sick they're responsible for the cost and they can't dictate where they're going to get the care. >> jeremy peters. >> as you look at the expansion of the mayo clinic over the years, i think no one would dispute the fact it's been the gold standard for care. >> thank you. >> so how do you expand at the rate you have while keeping the quality of that care? certainly, the expansion has been rather dramatic. >> thanks jeremy. 25 years ago, we expanded to arizona and florida. we have not done mergers and acquisitions beyond that. a little in the upper midwest with primary care facilities. what we have done is digitized our knowledge and shared that broadly. we now have a network of over 30 providers around the country in mexico city and puerto rico who aren't mayo clinic but they're part of our network. they pay a subscription and have access to our knowledge and consultations at no charge to patients so they can provide better care locally, and only 20% of those patients actually have to go to a mayo clinic. it's been a very good rangement. >> as one of the country's highest hospitals, how closely are you watching the supreme court? >> we're watching it closely. we believe patients need to have good insurance because health care is so expensive. so it's hard to speculate where that will go. >> is that a crisis for health care if it comes down against the affordable care act? >> it's a crisis for 6.5 million people right out of the box. if they can't afford their health care because health care is so expensive. it's not so expensive if you have good health care coverage. that's why the decision about what health care coverage you have is so important. if you make the wrong decision you can really hurt you and your family. >> doctor thank you so much. great to have you back on the show. >> come back. >> thank you. >> up next what funny thing did we learn today? when you're not confident your company's data is secure the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. we monitor network traffic worldwide, so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most. ortho bug b gon gives you season-long control of all these types of bugs. spectracide gives you season-long control... of just ants. their label says so. bugged by more than ants? get ortho bug b gon. the label tells the story. ortho home defense gives you year long control of all these household bugs - roaches, ants, and spiders. spectracide gives you year long control... of just roaches. their label says so. got more than roaches moving in? 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or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta and fires up free wi-fi, with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before you know what he can do? let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! book your next stay at lq.com! oh, i got you. what did you learn, mika? i'm afraid to ask. >> absolutely nothing. i'm going to play the role of all you guys. >> here we go. >> jeremy? i love the "new york times." >> thank you. >> mika is always suggesting that we learn our value. i learned today that my value is zero. >> oh, i love you. >> sam stein? >> i learned to feel bad for jeremy. rough for him this morning. >> he's fine. >> i clipped on my gear. i feel like i walked in -- >> that's a good thing to learn. joe, what did you learn? >> i learned that you have some unresolved anger issues regarding the campaign and the "new york times." >> i want to see the first woman president. i want a democrat to win. theria go. >> well -- >> i'm just transparent. >> you have a funny way of showing it. >> you guys have a funny way of facing the truth. >> oh, god, it keeps coming. >> bam. >> here's the thing, okay? when the show is over you guys get to go home. we get this in the office for the rest of the day. and we couldn't be happier. hey, by the way, mika was at the girl scouts of connecticut last night. fantastic organization. >> thank you for having me. >> those were happier days. "morning joe," lots of thanks to everybody on "morning joe." you do an extraordinary job. another great week. thank you so much. stick around. "the rundown" is next. and good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. i begin with breaking news. we learned that president obama is heading to the capital, lobbying house democrats ahead of the critical vote on trade, a bill giving his fasttrack authority is up for vote in the 11:00 eastern hour. a number of democrats have opposed it putting the results in doubt. more on this as soon as we get it. the president heading to capitol hill. and now to breaking news on the new york prison break. just moments ago, the clinton
thank you so much, kathy. it's a particular pleasure, as you might imagine, to have the hospitality of a distinguished center at the graduate center the center on philanthropy and civil society and have the friendship of a terrific scholar who has been a friend of many years. i owe kathy the special debt in the generous invitation to be a senior scholar at the center and bring my small organization with me. thank you very much, kathy. it's because of her i'm here today and here at the city university. i sworn after i left maryland having left rutgers i would not go back to the university again. i'm glad i have broken that promise to myself and here. it's a pleasure to be on the podium again. we met in the '70s what we were both regarded as a radical scholar. some might not think that anymore. francis and i were asked by james mcgreger burns to be the co-chair of the american political science invention program. we came up with a program that even i think jim burns was a little alarmed by. he in fact put in to action. i have known francis since then. she has remained an honest and authentic voice of progressivism and radicalism with a deep interest with those they have shown -- the homeless and the poor. not how they can be helped but how they find ways to help themselves through the movement and work that they do. it's a pleasure to have her perspective this afternoon in responding to these comments. i'm very pleasured to jackie davis, the chairman of the -- and rachel and members of the executive committee they are here today because that organization the interdependence movement which i'll talk about a little bit today is central to the thinking that has lead me to this work on the cities. i hope if your not familiar with it, you will have a look at interdependence movement.org online and gate sense of the work we are doing there. but let me make -- some remarks about the city and suggest it's change in recent years. my thinking about in politics in ways i hope it might also change yours. and in a sense, just what i want to do this afternoon, i want to change the subject. for 400 years, roughly when we talk politics retalk nations, we talk sovereignty, the nation state, we talk about international relations, relations among nations. we talk about the league of nations. the united nations. the nations state have been the central preoccupation obsession of politics for 400 years. it's been the central and pivotal and core institution of western and ultimately global politics. there's no question of primary actor in politics for the last 400 years has been the nation state. it's special role for the last 400 years has been a protecter of democracy. it's impossible to think about social contract theory. to think about representative institutions and think about democracy without thinking about independent nation state inside of which democracy has nestled and institutions has flour riched. the growth of the nation state and growth of democracy over the last had 400 years have gone hand and hand. democracies and those who care about disple owe a debt to the nation's fate. we know in the 21st century democracy is in crisis. i won't waste my time trying to persuade of you that since i think there are a few people who think differently not just here but in the western world, and even those part of the world that are yearning for democracy and seeking it when we see whether egypt, libya, syria, or iraq or somalia. we see how difficult to secure democracy today in the context of the struggle for an independent state. and the 18th century the decoration of independence spoke to the world by saying if you want lickety, freedom, justice. you must first secure independence. that's been the mantra of democrat-seeking people and the discussion go o- on far long time. i want to suggest that the crisis of democracy today is in part because it's no longer true. that nations states can no longer vouchsafe, security and liberty of citizen. it's no longer well cared for in the nation state. that the nation state so powerful and valuable for 400 years has been outrun by the new circumstances of a global interdependent world which the nation state can no longer solve problems as it once did. the mantra of the nation state is independence. the trouble in the 21st century it happened in world war ii and world war i. we live in a world of independent challenges, independent problems but in a world of interdependence challenges. i won't enumerate them here, if you look at sustainability, ecology, environment, weapons of mass destruction, or tropical storm, every one of those threats pace little need boundaries. every one of those threats is a cross-border challenge. every one of those threats represents a new interdependent, take one example, al qaeda. one of the reasons al qaeda still lives despite the fact that the leadership is lick dated, the drones are taking out, it's leader along with a lot of people who aren't the leaders nonetheless the leadership being lick dated. one of the reasons al qaeda survives, it is what i call a belev lent ngo. it's a nongovernmental organization. it belongs to no state. attacking states, laying low state government, defeating the taliban, al qaeda, making war in it will not stop it because terrorism like steanlt like markets are independenter in their character. what we have created beginning of the 21st century is a deep symmetry between the challenges we face and the political response the political institutions we have to respond to that. every challenge is interdependent global cross frontier and the primary political actors that respond are bounded, frontiered, independent nation states. and in that a symmetry, you can see the dysfunction of the modern world. we watch, for example, starting four or five years ago in copenhagen and going through mexico city and due by and recent meetings where 180 or 190 nations came together to renew the protocol already out of date in term of the ecological challenges but to embrace that now and failing to do so. and going home and saying that is because our sovereignty said china, the u.s., now canada, even leaders doesn't permit us to monitor. doesn't permit us to report to international body. doesn't permit an international body to tell us what to do with emission. sovereignty has become the obstacle to cooperation and increasely made states look more and more dysfunctional. how is that the most powerful, well equipped military nation in the world has ever seen the united states of america can't bring a handful of terrorists to heal in benghazi or mali, or afghanistan. the asymmetry between a massive military based on big ships, planes, and bombs and the reality of every day -- cross borders that a symmetry means that the war machine, the war machine of the greatest state there ever was is largelier relevant to the security threats we face. as we learn on 9/11 when in this city, a handful of hijackers living in the united states for years hijacked our planes and turned them to weapons. they didn't have to be given weapons by anyone. they seize them and use them and created devastation here. that, again, is a sign of this new asymmetry. and you find it in every one of these areas from disease, pandemic that effect us today, when i was growing up in manhattan in the '0s my mother used to say don't go to new jersey. i think there's flu. we worried about the new jersey flu. we worried about disease today come in pandemic no matter how good the health system, ours isn't that good, no matter how good it is no health position in position to take on the global threat we face. global world challenge, indper dependence as the reality and independent nation states born two, three, four hundred years ago in world which sovereign territory and jurisdiction could be and was the gairn or it of liberty and security. we need in short new political entities, new institutions to deal with an interdependent world. there's candidates around traditional multinational cop corporations which are interdependent and global which pay little attention to the states. that is not a great candidate to go the work. they can do a fair amount but they lack power of any kind. they are unrepresentative and undemocratic. they represent the interest of the people, but they don't consult the interest of the people. the international monetary institution that came out of -- they are mostly nation state based in the nation that own them and the banks that own the nation more or less the term in the policy. they are not useful. we are in need of new actors politically. that can act democratically, across-border, and have an impact on the interdependent problems we face. it's there i don't idea that there is in the oldest and original political institution possible potential for a new 21st century interdependent world. namely the city. the town, the entities we first formed in every early culture people come together around trade, creativity, living together, the neighborhood which we gathered. the ancient palace, which is where we started could conceively today act as an alternative agent in a modern world. and the great irony, beauty of that is that it closes a great circle. western civilization, civilizations everywhere started in towns, township, trading posts, and cities. but by the end of the ancient world it was clear that those cities were too small in the scale. too limited in their political representation to be capable of governing in the world that emerged in the mid evil empire and in the renaissance. in other words that's the scale of human society's grew. the township proved too small to deal with a large scale problems and so it required the invent of this of the renaissance in the early modern period to create the new idea of the nation of people. who then substituted themselves as a large entity capable of ruling and social contract theory of people and conceived themselves as being in a contract with one another to obey a larger power in some the nation state emerged as a solution to the limited scale and limited capacity of the city to deal with a new growing problem of europe and north america and asia. the nation state was the solution to the problem of inadequate scale on the part of the city. but now, as i just described, it's the nation's state who has the scale too diminutive to deal with the global reach of the problems we face today. what i'm suggesting is that we circle back to cities but not one city, town, palace at the time. but what cities can do together in networks. to work and corporate across borders to do what individuals sovereign states cannot do. the old palace reconstituted in a networking of -- can become a global instrument of global cooperation. the subtitle of my book if mayors rule the world why it's a good idea. the more important of the sub title is if mayors rule the world how they already do. because part of what i'm saying is notlet pluck the city from on security and get them to talk to one another and get them to work together. maybe if they can do that we can create a new utopia. on the reason contrary -- is that seis already are deeply erk inned. that inner-city associations if you look what is happening successfully global world are doing so. that cities are already well on the path to soft, informal global governance. not an executive authority with a mandate telling people what to do through laws made but a group of cities and mayors and counselors and citizens working together across borders voluntarily developing best practices, exploring common urban vir chow to solve problems states have proven no longer able to take care of. and i will bore you with it here. it's boring. important as it is. i name for you the inner-city networks that already in operation doing important business around the globe. you would be shocked and suppress a long yaun. the names are boring and bureaucratic. the reality is great. one of the most important institutions nobody has ever heard of, for example, is the united cities and local governments uclg. 3,000 cities and local authorities that meet globally every year and the networking cities around work and environment, transportation, immigration, secure city, and a number of other issues. i hadn't heard of it two years ago. i doubt too many people here other than the urban specialists have heard of it. it's a living organization. most people know what you mean the american congress of mayors, sister cities, maybe. they pale in the context of the actual inner-city organizations literally hundred of them. some regional, some national, some with global scope that exists. the forty cities or 58 cities now working on global environment and doing better jobs than the state have done. cities for mobility. mayors running the world city. city protocol and organization in barcelona that shares best practices. claire the counsel of local authority. the climate alliance. partnership of democratic local government in southeast asia. the international counsel of local environmental initiative and so on and so on. they go on and on. they are there working. i know, if i sit there and study and do a full report, your junior high school kids would say isn't there something else i can do for the report? they are important because they are achieving results in the very area where nations states are in lockup. unable to make any readies tings progress. they are actually doing things in important things together. and they do it because when you look at cities, the approach to governance, the approach to citizenship, the approach to policy problems turns out to look different from what happens when you look at nation states. what mayors are and do prepare to what presidents and prime minister are and do is striking in the distinctions. and i'll start with a simple fact that might startle you. there's not one mayor of any american city despite the greatnd of america's cities and the names american mayors has become president of the united states. mayors mostly don't become presidents because mayors are a different kind of politician than presidents. and part of what my book explores is what makes mayors different. why don't they become presidents? there's some places where they do in france they do. because they are chosen by the political system. not by local candidates and being mayor is part of a political career. but in most places are they are elected they don't. the starting point is that mayors are among the most pragmatic problem solving politician the world has ever seen. that's because their job is specific. if you become -- you have go the to achieve world trade regulation. you have to top the taliban and deal with chaos in libya and mali. you have to ban guns across the country or not. saling up the board ears and fig -- those vast large scale problems lend themselves to ed yolings. no government, big government, self-government. when you're mayor, you have sircht set -- sircht set of task. you better get the snow off the road when it snows. mayor lindsay, some of you may recall in 1960 when failed to plow. almost lost his job. because he didn't plow the streets. mayor teddy, pragmatic mayor of jury -- was known as a pragmatist and famous for having said he was in a meeting with rabbi and christians who were arguing about access to the holy site. he finally said to them, spare me your sermons and fix your suers. a wonderful phrase that contrast the religious that divide israel and palestinian and the middle east. from the practical problems that have to be done. there's another rather unmown mayor same period, very much like him who was a mayor. he almost got himself killed insisting his job to make the city function as a city. not to engage in universal debate about the jews and the arab and palestinians and who owned the land and who was there first and should do. it it's typical of mayors that they focus on problem solves. if you look at what they actually say, you'll find again and again we did survey of mayors in many different countries and they ended up saying the same thing. or job 0 is is to get it things fixed and do thing and make it happen. a moi your in philadelphia said the mayor the president of the american conference of mayors said we could never get away with some of the stuff that goes on in washington. you either fill pothole your don't. the pool is open or it isn't. someone responded to 9/11. when you're in the city being socialists, being a conservative. they have impact on how you view government. in the end you have to do the work of govern innocence. the other thing about being mayor if you're president of the united states, you're a figure head. if you're president of france or china and 99.9% will never to more than see your face. if you're a mayor in a big city like new york let alone a smaller city. if you're mayor there your neighbors know you. they see in the coffee shop. you can't get away with much because you are a neighbor and a politician who is a neighbor is a different breed. whenit was a different man than when i was president of france. the new president of fran spent seven years as mayor of tule in the south of france. as part of the political career, he grew so fond and involved when he took the pledge of office last year when he became the president of france he went down to tule and took the oath of office in front of my neighbors. sop the mayor as neighbor means that in fact mayors are -- to use the phrase mayors are home boys from the neighborhood. they are about the neighborhood. we read about mayors like our friend in newark who run to burning buildings and poor out people or mayor johnson who stopped on a mugging on the street of london. even if barack obama or bush wanted to, obviously the secret service would not let them get out of limo and interfere with a mugging. it's a different kind of job as a symbolic power. ed in the end you're not surprised when a mayor you see a mayor out on the side of an accident or pulling somebody out of burning buildings. ultimately the mayor sees themselves, first of all, as a ?aib. someone solving problems it's reflected in the statistic. we know that the trust in public north in american throughout the western world and much of the world has plummeted. congress is 12 fortunate in some polls. the presidency not this president but the presidency in 309 and 0. considered wildly popular because he has 52% support right now. the supreme salter ire court numbers have goanl.name poop some would say that's a hello effect. you know the guy you know. whatever you want to call it. neighbors retalk about trust in democracy that has been largely lost elsewhere which means also our relationship to our own town and city counsel and mayors is the last repository of trust in the united states and western europe. and the collapse of trust the democratic institutions is a deep crisis because of democracy which loses the trust of the citizens is going to fail. and the fact that the trust is greater means that at least in the city and town. there's greater optimism. a lot of people like bloomberg a lot of people don't. the thing about him. i saw last night on new york 1 somebody who doesn't like bloomberg can go up to him and scream in his ear and eventually the cops pushed him away. the guy who did it was a professional hecker. he asked the mayor how come you are being protected and we're not. try to do that with president obama or the president of china or the president of france. you can't do it. .. and anything else. if you run for the legislature in new york state or in kentucky you will probably the one to be a congressman, then senator then run for the governorship. it's a kind of slippery slope upward. people fall upward as american politicians as we've seen so often that they become neighbors and very often tend to be mayors like mayor koch. she will be here at this foundation next year but it's unlikely that he may have had aspirations that he will because the qualities that it takes to be mayor make it very hard to run for national office or ideologies and party identification and big-time rhetoric and a big of waste are what really make things happen. that also gives mayors the chance to solve real problems together. i just want to give you one or two examples of what mayors actually do and have done because it's extraordinary. let's take i think what is the most crushing issue on the world agenda and the one no one from china to the white house in washington today is paying much attention to, climate change. the fact is if we do not find a way to deal with of the sustainability, the sustainable environment, carbon energy, the world as we know it, rather governed by cities were nation states will largely vanished because most of the crises that we face in demography and water supplies in the rising oceans and the shifting populations and immigration go directly back to the problem and we have watched nation states sit by while all of those tipping plants, whether it's 2 degrees in the raising of the atmosphere or 350 parts per million of carbon in the atmosphere are bypassed and we go up and and the temperature has gone up and it's already well past 350 we are up to 420 or so and climbing and states have made an awful lot of malaise and have done almost nothing. but here's some interesting and optimistic fact. cities use 75 to 80% of the world's carbon energy and our responsible for 75 to 80% of the world's carbon emissions. they had been in cities which means even if china and canada and the u.s. and france do nothing, cities can impact carbon emissions significantly by the work they do, and indeed that is already happening. they have already begun to do that. i will just give you a couple examples. l.a.. if i asked you where to the carbon emissions come from i would certainly say and imagine you would say the freeway. not true. to the port of los angeles, the largest port in the united states the port of los angeles was responsible for something like 42% of the carbon emissions of los angeles and for a lot of the small. the diesel ships hundreds everyday the container ships sit there and spew diesel fumes even while they are tied up the shore, delivering 12,000 trucks a day coming in and out delivering the cargoes the old diesel engines with lots of automobiles and so on. the mayor philip russo five years initiative a program of reform of the part in which he provided electrical connections and the raiders coming in at the container ships coming in to look up the electrical the way yachts do. so instead of using oil they were on electricity. the trucks were compelled overtime by partnerships and the trucking companies can benefit by it to upgrade their engines to harbors the debate to it's been something like 35 to 40% reduction in the carbon and sessions to the commissions with a total percentage of the emissions in l.a.. the mayor did that. the u.s. did nothing. the u.n. did nothing. the mayor, the council and the citizens of los angeles did that and it's very different. in new york it's also not transportation. we don't compare it to places like phoenix and san diego used cars the way they do in the west. but here, the bulk of the carbon emissions come from buildings, poorly insulated, old, dark attracting the sun. so here the mayor has initiated a crucial round of trying to get better insulation in old buildings that are insulated new buildings, more efficient air conditioning, more efficient heating, change the oil from number six to four it may be the natural gas maybe eventually to alternative energy contant the rooms white and again by the local municipal law and the local cable production and private public partnerships if you can begin to actually make an impact that's measurable in this course of the year that states simply can't do. then you find the city is coming together another global environmental organizations exchanging best practices and you find what new york and l.a. have done to be replicated in other places. you find something that started in the 1960's in latin america a program where you put the brakes on the street and make them available to everybody is now being used in the 3,000 metropolises around the world including the spring of new york where the bikes will be out there, get them, put them back when you are done, more and more people used bikes the new needed the dedicated a bike lanes which others are doing and rahm emanuel in chicago is doing it they've been doing it in latin america and rio for a very long time they're doing it now in asia, they are doing it now in africa. they are not just shifting to the banks their shifting to public access and the public transportation systems based on the banks or insurance protection and avert other cities in the 1990's with a brilliant ideas you can build surface lines of buses that are dedicated lanes with concrete barriers on the side that operate like surface subways. they move quickly, they pick up people, they have expressed stops. degette people in about half the time to jobs that used to be hours away and they do this at 10% of the cost of building a subway. so to get dedicated it's a great idea of the injured in these international organizations and cities to get there are working to to do it or even in the area of national security you think that's one area that we need to the states doing things for us here is a nice story from new york that is told in the book about the post-9/11 security efforts in new york and after line 11 the mayor giuliani dispatched the new york intelligence swap which is eight or nine detectives working on the global intelligence trying to figure out the terrorists were doing and were they going to come to the u.s., what was going to happen he dispatched them as any what in washington. to talk with the fbi, talk with interpol, talk to the cia, the national intelligence agency and the homeland security. by the time the bloomberg was the mayor and the police chief they came back we said this isn't very useful. we've been for a couple years in washington we've learned almost nothing. a lot of bureaucracy and gossip and very little hard information the agencies often don't talk with each other competing with one another. washington, d.c. isn't the great place to be gathering intel. so ray kelly with bloomberg support had an idea. he said why don't we redeployed them to the global cities one by one, one to singapore and hong kong and frankfurt, send them to the places that we are likely to get valuable information, let them coordinate and cooperate with the units around the world. let's do city to city security intelligence gathering i can't say i'm not a security expert but that's the reason we haven't suffered another serious attack but i'm sure it had something to do with it. and certainly, i've heard and i interviewed people they feel new york's intelligence is among the best in the united states, and i don't think it is a, incidents that that intelligence comes from city to city intelligence cooperation. so, there is no area that i can imagine where cooperation among the city's strictly cannot enhance the solution of problems among politicians and mayors who are compelled to solve their problems if they are going to stay in office. you just can't get away with the crowd that goes on in washington today. you know we don't know which is the best to use so we are not going to plow the snow this winter. we have and it theological quarrels about who should sharpen the blades so we aren't going to plow the snow. can't do it. fundamental difference. so what i want to suggest to them is that cities and their makers and citizens, and by the way i said if they rule the world, i could have said if city management bureaucrats ruled the world probably not a great tidal. but when i say if mayors rule the world i mean if cities rule the world, if the citizens working together with their elected officials will the world, if people that take their citizenship seriously as neighbors and citizens are directly involved in the global governance, things could make a difference, and that brings me to the then proposal in which my argument issues and the proposal that in order to give a voice and a political act with the cities are already doing in the inner city organizations are already doing we need to convene something like a global assembly of cities and global parliament of mayors and in order to do that are you joining me or are you just coming to take those we? okay, thank you. >> we need a global mayors parliament. not a top-down executive telling cities what to do, but a representative organization that allows the cities to consult, to opt in and out and to deutsch together with your already doing informally. let me just conclude if you don't mind i don't like to read but i'm going to read the last few pages here of the chapter about global parliament because i want to be concise and make very clear what this is about because some people said isn't that kind of grandiose, that's never going to happen is that a kind of utopian but what i want to suggest is that when i propose say mayors parliament i am not asking for a mandate for the top down sovereignty by the legacy is exercising exactly the authorities over a world of pacification states. rather, this is a brief for cities to london but this to informal practices that they have already put in place to give institutional expression to emerging cooperative relationships, to focus on the bottom of the role that the city's already play in deliberate thing and deciding and voluntarily implementing policies and reforms that need to be interdependent challenges of the 21st century. the aim isn't to edit the burdensome job of covering the world to the already burdensome job of governing the city. it's already to understand that to govern the city's effectively they may have to play some role in governing the world in which they're cities fight to survive. but in governing the city's cooperatively to give their prod what is of the global effect may years need not await the cooperation of the disk united nations or the international financial institutions private market multinational corporations are centuries old and dysfunctional nation's. they can act now in ways that are symbolic, and volunteer aid but that are also practical, efficient and potentially transformational and they can do so in ways that directly impact more than half of the world's population because 52% in the world live in cities and 78% in the developed world live in cities today. but indirectly serve the entire planet. a global parliament of mayors will give the mitropoulos a megaphone and allow its voice to be heard. when the best practices by which cities to find themselves can be shared and implemented in common, we can take the inner city cooperation to the next level. what i propose to them and want to propose here is that much of the difficulty that we face today lies with a traditional sovereign state to large participation and to address global power. and i want to recommend that if we change the subject from state to city, we can come to terms with interdependence. the cities also harbor hope that can imply naturally to the collaboration and interdependence that has always been. that's why 90% of the cities are on water because it is about transportation, it's about concourse and trade and become an occasion, it's a lot cultural cooperation. inner-city relations reflect a civic reality because network cities already comprise of a modest and informal but actual model of global governance and since they have a taste for cooperation and they've shown an ambition to write the achievements and best practices of their cities into a promissory note for the plan at, it is time now for the cities to start doing what the nation states have consistently in the recent decades been unable to do, cooperate. the city has the future is a demographic and economic fact. republican vice presidential candidate paul ryan you might remember a couple weeks ago even suggested president obama was free elective on the back of urban voters, and he was right. the city is blue, not in the narrow sense of being space but in the broad sense of being cosmopolitan tolerant, open, multi-cultural, creative, willing to cooperate. that is a good thing, not a bad thing. it's a fact, not a political ideology and it describes the nature of the modern world. the global looks ever more like the city and ever less like the oral landscape. the world that we live in is connected and is interconnected and so are the cities which make them ideal the exemplars and representatives for today. in increasing in the urban habitat that is our destiny we can begin to the stand or psittacism and share our pessimism about the democracy and politics. we are liberated to build a cosmopolitan governments edifice on the parochial foundations of the ancient city and guided by the blueprint implicit in its modern successors. europe or the year rosellen is likely to fall apart but the cities are coming together. the united states and china may be paralyzed by their abstract ideologies and consequently failed to address the mutual security issues but american and chinese cities can pursue pragmatism with a purposefulness the ceo jim clifton indulges in a certain hyperbole when he says forget washington, cities will win or lose america. but in fact the fiscal and a jurisdictional noose held by the powerful nations, cities are not free to ignore those nations by whose leave the exist and operate. they will have to do what they do with and not against the state. i understand this is where the nation states this. they won't come they can't, but the world imagines here will allow the cities to lead rather than follow states. and even when necessary to raise the flag of resistance when sovereign stubbornness threatens not just the right to action, but the survival of the common plan that. embracing the interdependent logic of the city brings us full circle we can finally rediscover the process took an to the core. we can cover the participatory politics by securing in the world of the globalization a place for the democratic neighborhood writ large. thank you very much. [applause] >> francis, will you join me, please. >> i will stand right here today i want to share your authority with the podium. >> i'm francis of the graduate center and it's my pleasure to welcome my longtime friend and colleague. this is his maiden taught at the graduate center and we are really glad to have him. [applause] i think he mentioned that we first got to know each other some 40 years ago when we were asked to plan the annual conference of the american political science association which even now the certainly then is very austere and traditional and boring event and we tried to pick up little bit. we had a lot of good ideas, none of which i will mention until the cameras are shut off. it was just a lot of fun to work with ben and when i tell you those ideas that will improve. succumb ben has a point of view about how to save the world, because the world as, the planet as we know it and the country as we know it is in big trouble. those troubles include the ecological crisis we year but all the time and go about their daily life as we did before if there will be tomorrow and tomorrow but there might not be. they include the spiraling inequality. they would include the erosion of the infrastructure of the space governments but also the infrastructure of living together. that means the infrastructure of transportation and utilities, the networks that we depend upon as well as the governing structures that we have developed over centuries to help shore up people that are in trouble to read those are being dismantled as well so we have big, big problems not just in the united states but in some respects they are worth more in the united states but they also exist elsewhere, particularly in the northern hemisphere. we expect them in the southern hemisphere and that proposes a network of moles as a global solution and that tells us what the network in the different organizational forms is already there. it's already working on those problems. it's already helping to solve those problems even if you think they are getting worse they are holding back the floods, and he finally proposes that we escalate the solution. we enlarge the solution by creating a global program of mayors. so, okay, we will do that. i will vote for it. now i want to discuss with you some of the problems, democratic problems that the parliament will confront. one set of problems has to do with we slide a little over this with a question of whether the local government, even urban local government is in fact real space than national government. is it more practical? well maybe it is more practical about different things. maybe local and national government concern themselves rather than the politicians that preside over the local and national government have different priorities because the politics of getting reelected and staying free elective is different on the local and the national level. but, the question is whether because they are local that is what they say, the ideologue's always say closer to the people is more space. isn't that what richard nixon began saying all the time and it became republican mantra justify dismantling programs and a lot of great society programs, so wait a minute is the local government closer to the people i think we have very reputable tradition and in the study of the american politics over the local oligarchy is only overcome during periods of national convulsion. it would be an example of that. or look at the 1930's and 1960's. were these periods that didn't have an impact on our society so much because of the impact on the local government because it wasn't because the mayors responded to the travails of the great depression or the travails of the new urban migrants in the cities in the 1960's. it was national government that responded in a big way and that provided the cities to also respond. and that was true about them in the 1930's and in the 19 sixties. so, wait a minute. local government is more space? who are you thinking of klaxon some of the examples would make me feel warm and good. i kind of like john lindsay in retrospect even if he did make some mistakes. but when have we had a mayor that walked the streets of the ghetto in the riots since before or after? john lindsay did that. or what about laguardia? right there, a good mayor. but mayor bloomberg? i think that is another matter altogether. i think bloomberg is the major mainly for the financial sector, the mayor manly for the tourists that flood into manhattan. he is the mayor who gave the high-rise condo buildings and a loud and facilitated the destruction of the working-class neighborhoods. i remember manhattan as a place of working-class residences and little shops. now all i see is this stuff that's going. well, mayor bloomberg is the mayor of the most affluent people in new york more than he is of the people of new york. so i disagree with what the confidence that the mayors for all these reasons -- i'm not sure that they are more space or kind of anchor of democracy. and there are other questions -- i have other questions as well. for example, we have networks of mayors that do a lot of convening, not recently but a long time ago. i don't know how much they actually accomplish, but ben actually thinks that because of the convenience and the parliament of the mayor's he proposes to build because it is voluntary and consensual he seems to think it is our powerful. i don't know why that would be true. i think it is voluntary and consentual of it has no mandate in powerful goods in the society it might be easier to brush aside. the mayors are after all against the space and that their practical if they pay attention to the millions of people that live in the cities that live in cities not only like new york which is a welcome place for international capital and investment but cities like detroit and camden and a benton harbor. the mayors of the cities are going to be against a very powerful antagonists who don't care about many of the city's, who don't care about the people living in those cities who want to use the programs that once kept those people flowed as another source of profit. they are cannibals on the public sector. that's the kind of opposition that this convening of mayors is going to be against. it's going to be against the international finance and it's going to be against the multinational corporations and the interests in the cities and the plundering interests of other cities that want to come into places like the harbor and take whatever is valuable and throw the people of the harbor over shorter periods, i am not confident about the network, the parliament as equal to the task of confronting the antagonists who have to be confronted for the democratic solutions in the city's. then finally, i want to remind you of the kind of insight that we have gained from watching the american federalism and this tells us be aware of giving authority to local political actors in a global war and national world because bill local political authorities, it can even be a governor, the local political authorities are so easy to with saw by investors that are free to go here or there we have a tremendous problem in american federalism and we have it for a least 120 years, and that problem is that we have a former structure of government that gives large responsibility to the states, that means governors and legislatures of the local government that means many years in the city council, gives large responsibilities to these sub national government units at the same time as capital is operating on the national and international level. that means investors can say to the mayor or the governor i'm going to do it. give me what i want or i will disinfest. give me what i want and i will invest. that's not democracy. that is living under the black male of the capitalist class that is free to exercise the threat of exit in the global and indeed interdependent world. thank you. [applause] >> let me make a few quick responses. thank you for the spirited and deeply critical comments of the system and the democracy and the issues that we face. but why we are doing this we would like to invite all of you to think about questions you'd like to ask and there are microphones on either side of the hall. if you would like to come down to either one of the microphones so we can get to other people involved, take the microphone and we will have some time for questions, too but let me try to address a couple of these. the biggest question that i would agree the problem is, the question i always want to ask compared to what is their aid money elite, is there an oligarchy system in the modern global capitalist world that exercise is illegitimate influence on the political relations everywhere at every level of government? yes. of course you'd have to be [inaudible] not to see that to be the question isn't are we there and find ways to fight it. it is a heavy burden on all of the government's. but it's not i believe a special burden on the city and part of my argument is in some ways despite the fact they are smaller and weaker, they are naturally in a better position to exist. i think right now the influence of the tinted corrupt money on the american system is nowhere more obvious than in washington, d.c. and the natural elections and that is where we see that influence and while you also see that the state level and to the neighborhood level of the power is there. i don't believe it is more influential and in some ways less influential and there i think you have to factor not just to the space character and the government but some of the issues i was talking about cosmopolitan and the creativity, what cities to, but they are and how that makes them a little less vulnerable, though still very vulnerable to the kinds of oligarchy forces that you are talking about. so this is a universal question. it is a threat to cities [inaudible] and every level but the question is are the cities and a better position to deal with this than others? i think they are. the examples of the federal laws and in the early 20th century i agree with you. the federal government was a friend of the progress of some. i'm not sure that is true today. the national government is blocking [inaudible] cities i didn't talk about that one of the proposals. [inaudible] which can go to hospitals and use emergency rooms and cities are trying to do things that nowadays the national states no longer deutsch and by the way the same is true in other in the world. the book does try to [inaudible] >> thank you. is it on? the city tries to deal with issues that once upon a time the civil rights universal rights was the local government got in the way and escorted them to state and local universities in the south because the mayor's and places like little rock were a big part of the problem. but nowadays i think that has changed in fundamental ways and i no longer see the central government as a friend of progress and friend of justice and the opponent of big money i see the cities as better able to do that and indeed it seems to me it thinks the big government is the place it wants to operate and the reason the big money isn't on the side of the tea party ultimately is that they don't need to make the big government smaller, they can buy it and own it and put it to their own uses and i think that is harder to do nowadays. a lot of may years about how we can argue you talk about some of the things with the changing of the city constitution and the third term i had some problems with the way in which he brought people into the school system who didn't really i think represent parents and kids but we have to balance these things out. the fact is if you look at his national efforts against but illegal guns and the ecology, if you look at the international cooperation and leadership, she's shown the inner-city organizations many of which has played a leading role, and he stunned many important things and one of the things today is because of the nature of the inner city cooperation you have to judge them not just what they do on their own cities but with the with others about the leadership. as we can argue about the specific mayor whether it is in philadelphia or mayor villaraigosa some people said to me, you know, he is a portrait time, he hasn't done anything and then i found out he had done with the poor. he'd done very important things. what is interesting, too about the mayor bloomberg and others before him and so long as they are subject to a kind of criticism and they are engaged in a debate about the work on hold doesn't happen. nationally other than through the polarized advice of the ideological lens is the we bring today. with mayor bloomberg we talk about what did he achieve an education, what did he achieve in the intermodalism or what not and in that sense i think that of mayors said just the ss ability but ultimately i think that the real question is not are the mayors are vulnerable to influence and on the side or not it is as compared to what my view is the mayors, city council, presidents and the citizens of the city's are a great place to start because the cities around the world remain more cosmopolitan, are open, more tolerant, more plural, more creative than the alternative senator tbb to entities of the state and national level and in that sense why not make a bet on them while we've been on the nation's state and i'm not sure the 21st century the bet is playing off. why not place a democratic bet on the city i think it is worth making that that. >> i said that when i had the opportunity i will vote for the neyer -- mayor. then i went on to say some of the things that would not accomplish. some of the terrible obstacles the parliament but consent even its most decent and democratic members. so i think what we might also talk about is your solution as a government structure solution. let's reform the structure of the government, and it that way incrementally at least to change the power structure of the world so, let's talk about that. i think that i would go along with that. and then i am not going to work on it. i'm going to work on something else. i'm going to work on the social movement and energizing and protest movements that exercise real disruptive leverage against the dominant institutions that have enough threat power to force the real substantive changes in policy. so, i would vote for the parliament. >> and i will vote for social movement with equal fervor if not either or we need more, we need them to work together. my wife by the way is involved in the movement. she won't tissues to vote for you, she will work with you but we are looking for the mutually reinforce strategies, social movement is a powerful way to do it in their riding that you've done over the last 30 or 40 years on what works and what the obstacles are to the social movement and francis has asked the same question how do the social movements work and that corrupt world, and then acknowledged that also presents difficulties for the movement. these are some of the ways we deal with it to get so i think these are mutually reinforce strategies and i welcome and thank you for your vote and you have mine in return. if we continue to do both things, maybe that democracy will be better off. let's turn to the audience. >> my name is robin rogers and i am a professor at college and i want to first say that i agree with virtually everything that you've set about where we are. i think the nation state is a relic. i think the cities are the center of what is happening. however, i disagree entirely on the idea that the wealthy are not viewing politics as such. they are not putting it into the nation states because they are not stupid either but they are putting it into philanthropy and public private partnerships many of which are run with a major and get public money to create programs and health education, prison reform, and so i think what we are seeing is the development of the network system with people like bloomberg, gates. i could rattle off 70 or 80 billionaires' out of the thousands that there are in the world that are. but the smart money is coming into philanthropy, not into influencing policy makers and so i wonder of the focus on the city that you are proposing man not be space. maybe focusing on the upper budget for which his philanthropic efforts to change policies in ways that the elite prefer is located. >> i will take a couple of questions so that we can make sure that everybody gets a chance let's go back and forth, back-and-forth. >> go ahead, sir. >> i am a journalist. i would like -- by the way i'm attracted to the idea of the city's trading information to see the ideas like on the transportation coming out of places like brazil, etc.. but is the question then about a lack of ideas that we don't know what to do? or going back to the ultimate question i think behind the comment is a problem of the power to get it done versus the power of those who profit from things not getting done and i would like to ask you as a practical matter you said the big issue was global warming. i would say the big issue is probably any quality and the power the world is brought to its knees by banks run wild. how would you use your conference of mayors to take on incorrect the disaster of the excessive power of multinational banks or when we get to the issue of global warming, for example, what would your mayors to about what is the xl pipeline or shy from's operations in ecuador and, for your information, it is not a philanthropic organization. >> thank you. >> i am a recent graduate of international relations now apply and graduate programs for the urban management it so clearly my thoughts are in line this year sweeping down to the urban and regional level. so my question is about what responsibility or obligations of any larger cities have towards the smaller cities that may fall within the orbit of the regional influence. obviously the cities can gain a lot from each other working together on environmental and security issues, but the so-called second-tier cities do suffer in terms of constitutions for business, or even greater regional or national influence as for government offices and that sort of thing. >> yes, i come from france so i hope i can express myself properly. you mentioned that the mayor would become president and we have a very strong case. i remember him saying once to govern a city like paris international, cosmopolitan with all of the problems of terrorism and everything, you can easily. and of a second mandate rather passive as a president what we retain in the french population is that he was a terrific mayor and a wonderful mayor, and i wonder when you read your book if you had the chance to talk to him and if your book will come out in french because i think it would be very interesting for us as well. a side argument. we have daniel inouye who is a very left government he has done a lot of things i don't know if you have heard of it, it is a great success and now we are going to have the left bank with a circulation and so on. so in order to make paris still a beautiful tourist city but also something of pride for the french people. >> why don't we take those i will say a few remarks about them. one of the question circled back to the central power and financial power yet the power of monopoly and global capitalism putative in the world -- and again, one can only say anyone who thinks about power in the modern world and particularly about democratic level any institution whether it is civil society and philanthropy or the national government or global government has to think about this parallel system, this parallel destructor of money, power and fiscal power. that is a fundamental problem. my own view is we have two choices we can choose the kind of cynicism and say it's over, democracy is ghana. it's basically hypocrisy. it's a way of preventing we still exercise the popular power when the reality is a few oligarchies and the banking and oil and the carbon industry and agriculture and so on actually run the world, and that's just the way it is and we talked about civil society or people's movements for social movements are cities are people who argue for progressive democratic party or progressive socialist party are just kidding themselves. in the 17th century catholics and protestants would be killing each other with a provision and health of kings we would bring an end to religious warfare and bring something like the representative social contract nation states and if after the holocaust and the experiment in the german fashion some we were able to bring a new europe, the democracy deaths have some capacity to impact the power in the world. obviously the oligarchic power that is owned as a part of the fight. but if you believe in the democracies i think that the real argument and the important one is the one that we are having was isn't mutually exclusive but to be put more energy and effort into the civil society, and some people like my friend, kathleen, philanthropy isn't just another expression of tainted money trying use influence, but it is also the consequence of people trying to do good deeds in the non-governmental to make the world a better place and that is again, but for me the argument about all of these power things is the question on how we do it, can the city's health and the difference? can the poor people's movements, can social movements make a difference? kamarck democratic party whether it is republican or democratic party to make a difference? can the united nations is not the general assembly, the secretary-general's office and places like unesco make a difference? within each one of them we can always say yes but here is the money and that the corrupt power and the skewed environment of the world which there is no equality to the you can say that or you can ask compared to what? which one makes the bigger difference and which one allows us to impact the power, illegitimate power, those to me are the questions that we need to be asking. the last questions that are the smaller cities and the second-tier cities are a very good question 500,000 trying to deal with cities from 10 million to 25 million in the world, the center of the global economy, those cities, that is clearly not a fair competition. and detroit and new york are two very different questions. but interestingly, the mittal site cities have also used creativity it's beginning to look at the digital age and beginning to find they can get the companies taking over. mittal site cities have their own attractions many of the so-called attractive cities to live and one of the reasons they are powerful as because they love living in the cities become too and they go to the most creative act on to real, they go to the most attractive cities and a lot of the cities of between 500,000 a million. and that attracts very creative innovators that can help solve problems so they are definitely issues between big cities and small cities that we need to deal with that there are also some strengths. finally the case that was made over here. yes, the french mayors are not elected, they are appointed as a part of a political system, and he was a successful mayor in paris and not just a successful president. i mentioned in my thought he was the mayor and france and quite a successful mayor for seven years we will see whether he's a successful pri minister or not. his main success comes from deploying the french army which isn't always a very good sign. but still, that remains to be seen. as i said for the most part with of the french exception and some other cases, most makers don't go on to become president and even when he did as you said it wasn't an effective as of the separation between the mayor was and others is not absolute but there are fundamental differences. the book will be published in french and german and another of other languages i am happy to say. so yes i hope he will be looking forward to having a french addition and other editions. the book looks at the global cities all over the world, not just cities in the united states >> two quick points. the first is we should take the question compared to what, and we should apply in muscular interrogation to the different strategies that we espouse. it's too easy to say philanthropy sometimes does good. this helps people and creates these proceedings or whatever. so, when you live. if you do decide to think about welcome a social movement or structural reform that will allow it to the mayors in the scheme of things, well, ask those vigorously and apply some historical test to both of them because i don't think the structural reform works without a change in power relations. so for the parliament of mayors it isn't going to mean anything without a surge of unrest, of serious demand, the kind of collective power of refusal from the bottom of our society and other societies. my other point, and i will try to be quick about this, too. i want to really scrutinize the word to be used innovation, creativity. cities are supposed to be innovative and creative and wonderful and cosmopolitan and all that stuff. well, there are things about walking down the streets of greenwich village that i like but i haven't liked it for a long time i have to say. and i certainly don't like the fact that mayor bloomberg, i guess that he agreed to this painted these patches on the street and put wooden chairs on the patches and said that he's made the city beautiful. that's all for the tourists, that is sent for the new yorkers. so all of this innovation and creativity and cosmopolitan so forth i think has to be subject to space scrutiny. the democracy doesn't just have to do with that it has to do with the pressure of price. i don't want a city that taylor's to the upper class and the tourists or the tourist businesses. so, be careful about that innovation stuff. >> he's not going to let me get away with that. .. >> in those places. are their swarms of tourists? there are, and i guess for a new york economy, thank god. but those spaces also have to do we cog, have to do with sustainable, have to do with the livability of cities. and in europe, as we all know, they've had pedestrian zones and car-free areas and neighborhoods for a very long time. those are also, by the way, flanked by the same world stores that we have in new york that are mollifying them, and i don't like it when i go to vienna that half of the stores i see are the same global marketing concerns you see here. but, you're right, i want to agree completely with frances when she says we can't just say little cliche, we have to interdate. interrogate those terms. i do want to say, though, in defense of philanthropy that even -- i've written critically about the monopolistic philanthropies that do away with the small scale that allow competition and different aa poaches. but the fact is on the whole if you look at bill gates and want to say in terms of the world n terms of malaria, in terms of small children living longer and women getting on, i'd rather have a world with those philanthropies than a world without one, although i could design a world that was ideal. but many terms of the real world of philanthropy, i'm glad to have them, and i think the other thing we have to be careful of is being, oh, well, that george soros and bill gates, they're so tied to big money. the fact is a lot of lives have been safed around -- saved around the world and in the developing world because of the work that those philanthropies have done despite the connections with anticipated money, despite their monopolies that make it harder for people to have white houses. let's have another round here. >> hi, i'm in professor rogers' class, and my question is more with regard to the city's ability to adjust and, um, deal with issues of ideology. because you speak very highly of its ability in pragmatic areas. um, as far as i can tell, the relationship between iran and israel much resembles the relationship between tel aviv and tehran. so while there are strong relations between certain cities, other cities have not crossed those boundaries. >> my name's tom murphy. what struck me was the phrase you trust in cities because they're unburdened with the issues of borders borders and sovereignty. while i'm not going to address myself to jerusalem and borders, we'll stay with new york. i was reading this morning the biographies of all the freshmen leg to haves in albany -- legislators in the albany trying to see where was their previous employment. and more of them were political consultants, favored few of big honchos in albany and assemblymen moving up the ladder. they're insiders. less of them were mayors, county supervisors, school board members. and the rest -- i don't know who's going to tell who what to do up there. but, of course, they will tell new york city -- which is older than the state, a mature city, a mature economy and which is only a creature of the state we cannot even set our speed limits down here is by active legislation. now, most of the cities are not mature, these cities, megacities even just super megacities are not mature. they're overwhelmed. i was just reading about caracas. you know, you cannot go to bed at night without hearing gunfire, and that has -- it's an oil state. there's plenty of revenue, but the city is just forgotten. and that is, and if anything, the city mayors, if you got together, they would probably tell you they're making it up as they go along. >> my name is barn by spring, i'm an employee for the new york city department of education. i'm a licensed teacher and a licensed principal. i work now to support principals and schools that are overwhelmed with the number of situations. one recent one being having to refigure out their budgets in light of some budget cuts that are coming. due to an inability of our decision makers to come up with a workable plan for teacher evaluations. and my question comes from the realizing of a book called "dancing with dynamite" about the history of social movements in latin america and what happens to these social movements when they start getting a little tates of power and that -- a little taste of power can and that dance that goes on between the social movement and the empowered. and another guy i've been read, we don't talk much about him, edgar moran talks about complexity. and, of course, i'm just thinking about these kids in the south bronx that come to school living in conditions of poverty. and incredible pain. incredible pain. the older i get i don't see it decreasing. it's like a third world country. and as i look at both of you up there, though, the real question i have when i think about interdependence and collaboration and the danger of words is what's the structure that might exist between social movements and a parliament of mayors? how might a parliament of mayors if today had to adhere -- if they had to adhere to critical attributes of membership, you don't just get to be a member of this parliament because you're the mayor of a big city. you have to demonstrate some sense of balance between the multicorporations and the people who are dying in your city payoff the deals you're making with -- because of the deals you're making with those corporations. and what kind of a structure to make sure these mayors on this parliament are hearing the voices of these people? in other words, rather than voting for the parliament and then i'm going to do my own thing, how about how do we vote for the parliament together, let go of whatever the concept we have of how it's going to manifest and let go of results and see what happens if we truly collaborate and try to find a balance between the voices of the oppressed and the voices of the oppressor who as paula would remind us are both in quite a or horrific situation and both need to be liberated. >> thank you, barn a by. we only have five more minutes, but, professor mcclintock, go ahead. >> hi. i'm vavi -- ravi mcclintock. i'd like to ask a question about the historical perspective behind this. you started off with the nation-state is a 400-year enterprise to get to its current late condition of perhaps decline. i'm very taken by the idea that an interactive network of increasingly autonomous, politically autonomous cities is a structure that is much more better adapted to solving some of the fundamental problems facing people over a longer-term future. but i think that ms. piven's points about the power of various parties to the life of the city right now have a great ability to impede that process. if we look at the history of the nation-state over 400 years, it was originally an aristocratic, monoaround -- monarchic enterprise existing to facilitate the interests of a very small class. and so i'm wondering either in the parliament of mayors or as a prelude to arriving at a parliament of mayors what the real sources of countervailing power might be in a large historical development that would enable a more democratic or civic republican or common-spaced vision of the city to actually come into dominance against the privatizing forces within it. >> i think this is to our last round, and, i'm sorry, i'd like to talk to you longer, but let me just very quickly make a couple of comments in response to the most recent round of questions and comments. first i want to speak on the question of i think it came up about three speakers ago, four speakers ago, the question of movements and power over time. or, in other words, most of you would be familiar with in this kind of issue as the issue of co-opation. don't moves arise only to precipitate responses which result in the integration of some leaders from the movement, maybe some softening of the dpreecheses of -- grievances of the rank and file and then the movement disintegrates, disappears, evaporates back into the general population, and the impetus for reform disappears with that and is over. all we have is the residue of the movement in the shape of the concessions that were made while it was alive and furious. what can i say about that? i mean, identify just made the -- i've just made the case for the questioner that, yes, that's the way it has been. just the way it is. so then we have to have another movement. movements are not rationed. movements can emerge all the time. and it was actually jefferson who evoked the idea in american history of almost a continuous turmoil, challenge, popular challenge, popular unrest, popular refusal. so, yes, the movement is over time probably going to fizzle. of its leaders -- its leaders will show up as bureaucrats. but that's what we have to organize -- that's when we have to organize a new i movement. i also think that -- and maybe i'm not responding to the points that you intended to emphasize, barnaby, but the difficult question of how a parliamentary left or a parliamentary dissidence relate to a movement, the dissidence on the street, now, that is a really big question or set of questions. and it is, comes up in real life all the time. it is the question that the greens have disappointed us in germany by becoming a very timid and cuf parliamentary bloc. but historical parties have, in fact, in their origins the impetus, the energy of a movement that gave rise to the party. and having said that and indicators that i don't put too much faith in the parliamentary bloc that is allied or associated with the movement, i also want to say that it is the parliamentary bloc or it is the parliamentary success of the movement that is the achievement of the movement. movements don't fashion solutions out of the air, they fashion solutions out of the crises they've created in the system of government. and in our societies that is the legislature or the parliament that fashions those solutions. >> thank you, again, frances, for your vital contributions to this ongoing dialogue and one of the pleasures of being at city university is knowing that we'll be able to continue this conversation. i just want to say three quick things. there's not really time to answer appropriately to the depth of the questions that were asked, but very important question about iran and israel versus tehran and tel aviv. i think the implicit point there was that just the way money colonizes democracy at the federal level and the local level, ideology can also colonize democracy. and i think the point was tel aviv and tehran are not insulated from the ideological questions that put iran and israel at odds with one another. that's true. but again, i'd say as compared to what if i'm asked who's more likely to come to terms, tel aviv and tehran or the government of israel and the government of iran, i'll put my money on the two cities first. i'd rather have them have a go at it than i would the states. that's part of the general argument i'm making. same thing u.s. and china or los angeles and shanghai. it turns out the mayor of los angeles actually reached out to shanghai to solve some transportation problems he had in a way the u.s. and china would not. so that's the answer to that. barnaby spring asks a really important question. i wanted to say also to you, frances, chapter 11 -- chapter 12 of my book is global parliaments, chapter is 1 is civil society and -- chapter 11 is civil society and social movements. [inaudible] along with other discussions including occupy wall street and other more recent movements that have had an impact. those are a part of the synergy, i believe -- i know. i didn't want to. i thought you wouldn't let me put it in you found out i was doing it. it would taint your reputation. but -- so, i want to add one thing to barnaby, he was an actor and artist who became a teacher and then a principal and then an educational innovator because he believed, he actually answered his own question, that education can make a difference. education can be a part of how we confront the deterioration of democracy. along with social movements in civil society and changes in government structure, education e -- remains an absolutely central issue at the same timed as it is by money and -- tainted as it is by money and ideology. and barnaby is trying to show even in a bureaucracy like the new york school system you can make a difference, and he has. finally, last point to my friend robbie mcclintock about the history of this and countervailing powers. ultimately, the only countervailing way to deal with ideology, to deal with the taint of money, with corruption, with inequality and global power systems that illegitimate is democracy itself. jefferson said a long time ago that the remedy for the abuses and ills of democracy is more democracy. and the question for us is what does that mean in the modern world. what does it mean to have more democracy and philanthropy, more democracy many schooling, more democracy in social movements, more democracy in government structures? but that's the faith of the democrats, small d, that when democracy's in trouble what we need is not less democracy and alternative democracy, but actually more democracy and then to interrogate, as frances tells us, what that actually means to each of these important domains. thank you, frances. thank you, kathy. thank you all for being here. good night. [applause] >> is there a nonfiction author or book you'd like to see featured on booktv? send us an e-mail at booktv@c-span.org or tweet us at twitter.com/book tv. >> tell us what you think about our programming this weekend. you can tweet us @booktv, comment on our facebook wall or send us an e-mail. booktv, nonfiction books every weekend on c-span2. >> political strategist bay buchanan has written a new book, "bay and her boys." tell us a little bit about it. >> well, the book is my story about being a single mom for 23 years. i payment a single mom when i was pregnant with my third son, and there's rough days, and there's good day, and what i did is throughout that time i never heard a positive message from the right or the left of encouraging words or instruction maybe that help us get along because the odds are against can kids who have only one mom or one parent in the home. so i wrote the book to just say it's a can-do book. look, you can do it. it's an upbeat, positive message not only for single moms, but for all parents. i think we all relate to some extent. and inside those covers are my heart and soul. those are my best years. >> people who know your career know you as a republican. is this book free of ideology? >> this book is apolitical. i don't care how you became a single mom, makes no difference to me. this book is about helping you be successful and making certain those kids have a chance to be as successful as any other child, independent of what their circumstances are. so that's what's key is someone is out there, and so much makes you feel as a single mom that you somehow failed or that toeds are against you -- or that toeds are against you already, and it's time for single moms, and most of them do, i must admit, but for single moms to say, look, i've got the fight for my kids, i've got to make sure they have a chance, and i've got to show them a way. that's what my book's about, and it has lessons in there, the eight lessons of single parenting and how to be a good parent, but they apply to all parents. and there's a lot of great stories, great, fun stories. so that's why all parents will relate of those times when the kids embarrassed you to death or made you nervous about what's going to happen tomorrow because the circumstances in your home. but it's, it's a great read and an enjoyable read, i think, for all. >> you have three boys, now three men. what do they do? >> my three boys have made some great decisions. you know, i can't take all the credit. i set the path. my oldest, billy, has just graduated from law school, and he's doing a clerkship, and he's married with two kids and one on the way. my second son is married with two children, and he is out there with a start-up in california doing quite well. and my youngest is still in college, but he's looking at medicine, looking at medical school. so i couldn't be prouder,? just couldn't be prouder of the decisions they've made, the wives they've chosen and the kids thai, little grandchildren they've produced. >> bay buchanan, or author of "bay and her boys: unexpected lessons i learned as a single mom." thanks. >> thank you very much. >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here on line. type the author or book title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search. you can also share anything you see on booktv.org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. booktv streams live online for 48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. >> on route 66, you know, people were traveling, either traveling for fun or traveling looking for a job, maybe they were on their way to the grand canyon, maybe they were on their way to work in the agricultural fields in the california. so at first route 66 was just a, just a way to get where. i mean, your destination was out in california. but later on after all these snake pits started blossoming up and all these tourist traps and attractions and the cafés and the motels and the trading posts, indian trading posts, when those things started springing up, it almost became like a big amusement part along route 66, and route 66 became the destination. it was not like, dad, can we go to the beach in california, it was more like, dad, let's to down route 66 because all the fun stuff is there. it's like b a big, long amusement park. >> get your kick cans on route 66 in albuquerque, new mexico, one of the places you'll see this weekend as booktv, american history tv and c-span's local content vehicles look behind the scenes at the history and literary life in albuquerque march 2nd and 3rd on c-span2 and 3. >> here are some of the latest headlines surrounding the publishing industry this past week. a class action lawsuit has been filed by three independent booksellers against amazon and six other publishers; simon & schuster, random house, penguin, mcmillan and harpercollins. the booksellers filing the suit, fiction addiction of greenville, south carolina, bookhouse in albany, new york, and pozen books in new york city all claim that amazon and the major publishers have formed controversial agreements to monopolize book sales. independent bookstores are urging court to prohibit amazon from selling e-books that are limited to only certain devices or applications. the suit was filed in the u.s. district court for the southern district of new york. and the finalists have been announced for the book prizes. the book prizes are broken into ten categories including biography, current interest, fiction, history, science and technology. among the finalists are jake tapper, robert caro and katherine boo. the winners will be announced on april 9th, that's the night before the l.a. times festival of books. for the entire list of finalists, go to l.a. times come. stay up-to-date on breaking news about authors, books and publishing by liking us on facebook at facebook.com/booktv or follow us on twitter @booktv. visit our web site, book tv.org, and click on news about books. >> we don't know whether franklin roosevelt ever heard about florence greenberg's unprecedented call for health care as a right, because even though he had endorsed the conference, he chose that time to go on vacation. fdr was actually on a cruise. i guess we can't really blame him, um, point a pretty well-deserved vacation. but three years earlier fdr had refused to include medical coverage as part of the social security act because he did not want to antagonize the american medical profession. he did send a message of support to the health conference, but not long afterward the outbreak of world world war ii forced the president's attention elsewhere. five years later on january 11, 1944, in his state of the union address roosevelt spoke to the american people about the war and especially about the kind of peace the allies planned to establish after the defeat of fascism. he said that the one supreme objective for the future can be summed up in one word: security. and that means not only physical security which provides safety from attacks by aggressors, it means also economic security and social security. the individual political rights upon which the united states had been built, roosevelt argued, were necessary but not sufficient to guarantee true freedom and security. fdr then announced an economic bill of rights which is sometimes called the second bill of rights that included the right to a job and a living wage, the right to housing, education and security in old age and a right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health. so even though fdr missed hearing florence green brg's speech, we hear echoes of it in his second bill of rights. the idea of economic and social rights as essential supplements to political rights had started as far back as the french revolution, but the idea of a right to medical care was something much more recent. discussion of this kind of right became prominent in the 1930s and '40s, first of all, because medical care itself was becoming more effective. it was starting to matter much more in everyone's lives. by the '40s the public knew about medical miracles like vaccinations, penicillin, antiseptic surgery, treatments that could save lives and even extend life. and to withhold these miracles came to seem unjust. in medical care at this time, it was also starting to cost more than ever before. the average family could not afford to pay for a hospital stay or a major illness or the birth of a child just out of their wages. so medical care had become not just a matter of life and health, it was also becoming something that could cause serious financial hardship. of -- that is why medical care became a matter of economic security as well as health security. in the u.s. demands for medical care as a social right origin nailed in the workers' movements represented by people like florence greenberg. they next came to national prominence in fdr's proposed second bill of rights and finally, they were adopted in the united nations' universal declaration of human rights after world war ii. thanks in part to eleanor roosevelt who helped draft the u.n.'s declaration after her husband's death. today more than 70 countries recognize a right to health or health care in their constitutions. virtually every industrialized nation has taken steps to implement these rights by establishing some type of universal health coverage for their citizens. with one major exception. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> guest: you have to understand that all the founders' primary concern, number one, numero uno, was with national security. so what would they say, for example, about a company such as lockheed? i'm of the opinion that based on how they acted in other instances they would have grudgingly favored a bailout of lockheed because it supplied the united states at the time with its top fighter jets and its top reconnaissance airplanes. i think you can make an argument that they would have supported, for example, the bailout of chrysler back in the 1980s but not the bailout of chrysler today. what's the difference? chrysler back then made tankings. they made the m1-a1 tank. in fact, they were our only tank manufacturer, and it's interesting when chrysler comes out of debt and repays the government loan and kind of comes back to health, the main way they do so is by selling off the tank division and plowing that money back into the company. >> author and university of dayton professor larry. >> week earth will take your calls, e-mails, facebook posts and tweets on the founding fathers "in depth" live sunday at noon eastern on book tv on c-span2.
good evening, and it's great to have you with us here on a tuesday night. and we begin with that breaking headline out of texas tonight. the video now watched by nearly 10 million. the officer confronting teenagers at a pool party appearing to toss that teenage girl to the ground and later drawing his gun. we reported on the outrage that followed. late word tonight that that officer is now resigning. tonight, a new image. moments before that cop rushed in, once named officer of the year. abc's steve osunsami leading us off. >> reporter: late word tonight that the mckinney police corporal seen sitting on a teenage girl with his knees in her back is stepping down after millions have viewed the disturbing images. >> i want to say to your community that the actions of casebolt as seen on the video of the disturbance at the community pool are indefensible. >> reporter: the 15-year-old who recorded this chaotic scene outside a texas pool party says skin color had something to do with why police were called and how they reacted. >> i was like one of the few caucasian people at the party, so i think it might have had something to do with racism. i was scared that someone was going to get shot and possibly killed. >> reporter: the image that upset so many the most is this one. >> on your face! >> reporter: corporal eric casebolt getting rough with a teenage girl in a bikini. casebolt was named officer of the year in 2008, but just a year earlier was accused in a federal lawsuit of racial profiling and excessive force during a drug search. albert brown jr., who is african-american, says casebolt and other officers slammed his head against the hood of his car. police did find drugs. the lawsuit was dismissed. >> what do we want? >> reporter: family sies marching the streets here calling for casebolt's dismissal are getting some satisfaction tonight. steve osunsami, abc news, texas. >> steve, thank you. now, to the urgent manhunt tonight for those two escaped killers. that daring prison break, cutting through steel and brick with power tools. now, 40 miles from where they broke free, hundreds of police on the ground tonight. an intense focus on one town. abc's gio benitez this evening with two eyewitnesses who say they came face-to-face with the fugitives. >> stay with your partner! two-man teams. >> reporter: tonight, the dramatic search for the escaped killers takes us deep into dense woods. 400 officers pushing through tangled trees, scanning from the skies standing side-by-side in formation to canvas a large area of fields and farms. what they're doing right now is called a grid search. they are just searching every square inch of this whole place. they're pursuing a new lead in the search for david sweat and richard matt. 35 miles away from the prison in the small town of willsboro. at 2:00 a.m., in the midst of torrential rain, a resident spots two men walking alongside of the road, approaches them, but they run off. the resident calls police, who cordon off the whole area. the killers on the lam since saturday. these people who live near the prison tell us they had a close encounter with the men right after they broke out. so, they are just there in your backyard? >> yes, they were looking around a little bit, walking in our backyard, and people don't walk in backyards around here. >> reporter: still scared, they asked us not to share their names. >> lucky to be alive, man. like, they could have done anything. >> reporter: tonight, still so many questions about how sweat and matt got those power tools to drill through a wall, cut through pipes and saw open a manhole. prison officials saying all their power tools have been accounted for. there have been no arrests. but police are still talking to people on the inside. including this woman, joyce mitchell, a training supervisor working in the prison's tailor shop. police think the prisoners are capable of anything. matt, convicted of breaking a man's neck with his bare hands. but in prison, good behavior. sources say both men were housed in the so-called honor block where the murderers were allowed special privileges like wearing plain clothes. and today investigators have been going up and down these railroad tracks searching for any clues. tonight, they'll be going door to door to find these dangerous men. david? >> gio benitez live in upstate new york tonight. gio, thank you. this evening, major developments in the case of former speaker of the house dennis hastert. in court today, pleading not guilty to charges he lied to the fbi, that he paid millions in hush money allegedly to conceal sexual abuse from his days as a high school wrestling coach. our cameras capturing hastert there at the gas station with his wife of 42 years, right there in the passenger seat. tonight, our own chief investigative correspondent brian ross with the tough questions for hastert. >> reporter: arriving today without the lights, sirens and government bodyguards that used to surround him, the former speaker of the house instead was surrounded by a mob of photographers and reporters outside the chicago courthouse. mr. hastert, any comment you want to make? treated like any other accused criminal, the 73-year-old dennis hastert, once second in line to the presidency, made his way through security before being booked, fingerprinted and entering a plea of not guilty. he declined to answer my questions. mr. hastert, brian ross from abc. is there anything at all you want to say, sir? the charges against hastert date back to the time he was a popular high school wrestling coach and allegedly sexually abused a male student. the indictment says he paid his victim, identified only as individual "a," $1.7 million in hush money in cash to keep his secret from coming out. and federal officials say there was more than one abuse victim. >> do you have anything to say? >> i think people need to stop and remember that these boys were 14, 15, 16 years old. >> reporter: jolene burdge told abc news she's been waiting for this day for decades, ever since her late brother, steve reinboldt, told her that hastert had molested him when he served as the wrestling team's student equipment manager. >> he damaged steve, i think, more than any of us will ever know. >> reporter: the charges against hastert have raised other questions about how he amassed millions of dollars as a congressman and later a lobbyist and came to own two sprawling homes. we saw him monday with his wife, jean, at their place in illinois, along with one of their two sons, josh, the man with the tattoos, who himself became a well-paid washington lobbyist while his father was the speaker of the house. hastert could face up to ten years in prison. today, the former speaker surrendered his passport, posted a $4,500 bond and then went home, appearing very much to be a broken man. david? >> brian ross live in chicago for us. brian, thank you. a major development tonight in the movie theater massacre. the trial of james holmes coming to a halt today. three jurors dismissed by the judge, accused of discussing the case outside of court, something they are under strict orders not to do. there is also a new development in that case of road rage here in new york city that made national headlines. the swarm of bikers surrounding an suv, a family inside. tonight, for the first time, the undercover nypd detective, off-duty at the time riding with those bikers revealed. the judge finding him and another man guilty of assault, acquitted of the most serious charges. he now faces a minimum of two years in prison. we turn this evening to the severe weather watch tonight. 11 million americans in the storm zone right now from the midwest all the way to the northeast. 250 severe storm reports in just 24 hours and the images coming in. this time lapse from baltimore. the gathering storms there in the last 24 hours. we've also got flooding in nashville. a dangerous commute for a time. and look at this in rockford, michigan, whipping winds and rain. these images coming in overnight. chief meteorologist ginger zee's hometown, by the way. she's here because so many hometowns are right in that storm track tonight. >> the hometowns are numerous. and we'll go straight to the map to take you there. anywhere from georgia to new york, more than 40 severe storm reports just today. and you're seeing in new hampshire, still a severe thunderstorm watch. but there's another pocket and a brand-new severe thunderstorm watch that just came out for parts of minnesota and south dakota. that goes through tonight. same cold front that sparked those storms will move in. buffalo, cleveland, northwest indiana, you're all in it for tomorrow. that pocket back in the plains, too. and, david, this is interesting. the remnants of blanca sending moisture along with that upper level low up into arizona and new mexico today, even california. flash flood watches going into effect tomorrow through the next day. wyoming, down to new mexico, parts of california there, tucson, to give you perspective, got more rain overnight than they have or average in all of june. >> they need it, but watches and we're watching the whole country actually tonight, trouble 1309s. ginger, thank you. now, to that urgent medical warning from the cdc. the patient battling a powerful strain of tb in isolation now tonight. that strain of tb, only 30% of patients are actually cured. and this particular patient traveling through some of the nation's busiest airports. dr. besser is standing by on this. but first abc's david kerley with the race against time now to find hundreds of americans who may have come in contact with her. >> reporter: in an isolated room, the woman who traveled from india with this dangerous form of drug-resistant tuberculosis is still being treated, as tonight health officials track down the people with whom she had close contact. she flew into chicago's o'hare seven weeks ago. a dozen people in a nearby county have been identified and tested including family. they'll be tested again in two months. but the woman, who knew she had tuberculosis, also traveled to missouri and tennessee. the search is on there, too. health investigators also going through the manifest of her flight into the u.s. passengers in her row and two rows in front and behind will be contacted. even though it's unlikely they were infected, they, too, will be asked to be tested. >> i don't know the story of how she was able to get in. >> reporter: dr. anthony fauci, of the national institutes of health. >> you don't proactively screen of the national institutes of health. >> you don't proactively screen somebody for tuberculosis. >> reporter: this form of tuberculosis is fairly rare in the united states, just three to four cases a year. and the fatality rate, about 35%. but worldwide the fatality rate is about 70%. david? >> that's the stunning number. david, thanks. around the world, the fatality rate, 70%. you pointed that out this morning on "gma." so, that's why there's a lot of concern here with this case. >> that's right. this can be deadly. but, thankfully, it's not as contagious as things like the flu. but they're going to work to track down every one of the close contacts. >> the rows in front of that passenger and the rows behind her on that plane. in the meantime, stick with us, dr. besser, because there's another major medical headline tonight. a new cholesterol drug, an fda advisory panel recommending the drug be approved. 73 million americans have high ldl, the so-called bad cholesterol. this new drug found to lower ldl between 50% and 60%. this got our attention. but you were telling me, rich, it's not like a statin you take at home. how does this work? >> so, yeah, it's not a pill. it's an injection. and you have to have that injection twice a month. so, it's not going to be for everybody. but there are two groups. people who are on high dose statins and they still haven't gotten their bad cholesterol low enough, and those people who have side effects from statins. for those groups, it could be the way to go. but, david, one estimate, this drug may cost $7,000 to $12,000 a year. >> very expensive. and you've got to go to the doctor twice a month to get it. all right, dr. besser with us tonight, thanks. to other news tonight, some tense moments in the nation's capital today. two bomb threats called in, one targeting the white house briefing room cleared for a time as bomb-sniffing dogs inspected. across town, meanwhile, at the capitol, a bomb threat there forced the evacuation of a tsa hearing. no world on whether the two threats were related. no bombs were found. the president and the first family were not evacuated. we turn overseas tonight and to iraq now and the urgent new fight to contain isis now armed with u.s. weaponry, tanks, missiles and more, abandoned by the iraqi army fleeing as isis seized their cities. abc's chief global affairs correspondent martha raddatz tonight with a look at the american humvees now in the hands of isis tonight. >> reporter: today, iraqi troops along with shiite militias retaking the key northern city of baiji. this coming as president obama said the strategy to defeat the terror group is incomplete. >> we don't yet have a complete strategy, because it requires commitments on the part of the iraqis, as well. >> reporter: what's needed? a plan to quickly recruit and train more iraqi troops. for their part, the iraqis saying they want more equipment. these mine-resistant vehicles have been lifesavers for the u.s. military, and already in the past year, they have sent about 300 to iraqi forces. but vast amounts of american equipment have fallen into the hands of isis, including 40 tanks, over 74,000 pieces of artillery and more than 2,300 humvees. some used as suicide car bombs by isis as they took control of the city of ramadi. the armor protecting the isis driver until he arrived on target. so, american pilots, now taking aim at the american equipment left behind, hoping the next shipment does not fall into enemy hands, as well. martha raddatz, abc news, in the persian gulf. >> martha raddatz tonight. martha, thank you. a new revelation in that world cup bombshell tonight. top officials charged with taking bribes. now word the vice president of fifa, jack warner, under investigation by the u.s. over $750,000 he helped raise for the victims of the earthquake in haiti. that money later placed in accounts earmarked for warner's personal use. he now faces extradition to the u.s., and he denies any wrongdoing. now, to the stunning admission from the nba tonight. if you were one of the millions watching sunday and thought, what were some of those calls, you weren't alone. lebron outraged in this moment right here. the league now saying the refs blew it on at least four calls. let's get right to espn's lindsay czarniak in cleveland for us tonight. game three, a short time from now. she's on east fourth street outside a very busy queue there. and, lindsay, first of all, that moment so many people were talking about. lebron james appearing to travel. why wasn't that called? >> i think that's the million dollar question, david. today, we have the nba admitting that the referees, in fact, should have called him for traveling. so, that's something new now, that the nba is coming out and saying, hey, these were calls, basically, that were mistakes. >> it was also what came just seconds after that moment. >> the thing later was draymond green, they missed the opportunity to call him for a foul. so, that's the second in a span of literally two seconds, david. >> okay, so, all of us ganging up on the refs after sunday night. in the meantime, the players thoughing heading into tonight -- >> everyone loves to. >> the players are focused? >> extremely focused. the bottom line is, when there's a series tied at one game apiece in the finals, the winner of game three goes on to win the title 84% of the time. so, you can imagine, they're buttoned up, they're doing what they can to bond with their teammates, but these players are ready to go. >> wow. whoever wins tonight goes on to win it 84% of the time. lindsay, thank you. and remember, you can watch game three of the nba finals right here on abc, beginning at 9:00 eastern, a little later here. in the meantime, there is still much more ahead on "world news tonight" this tuesday. the rush hour road rage. the brawl in the middle of a busy street. you will see this as it unfolds. two drivers fighting it out. that was during rush hour. the man in the tie, watch this he goes after the other driver. one of them nearly hit by a van. when rage puts all of us on the street in danger. also, you'll remember we reported on family members punished for cheering on their graduates at graduation. a new development coming in tonight. and then, take a close look at this. ♪ your kisses -- >> whoo! >> the 6-year-old dancer on stage demanding a little r-e-s-p-e-c-t. she's become an instant hit tonight, 29 million times and counting, and you'll meet her, coming up. not alone. fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. invokana® can cause important side effects including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you 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car window, punching the other, a road rage argument quickly escalating. these drivers leaving their engines running right in the middle of rush hour traffic at a busy hollywood intersection. watch how close the man in shorts gets to being struck by oncoming traffic. >> they were screaming profanities at each other, and when they both got out, it became a full-on brawl. >> reporter: the eyewitness who captured this video tells us the two drivers were arguing through their windows about merging lanes for ten minutes before coming to blows right here in front of a school. aggressive driving accounts for more than half of all fatal car crashes. according to the eyewitness, several bystanders, including a traffic cop, watched as the scene unfolded. >> in los angeles, you never know who you're dealing with. you never know if there is a gun in the car. >> reporter: that's why police say, never get involved in a road rage argument. advice these onlookers ignored as they rushed in to intervene. kendis gibson, abc news, los angeles. when we come back here tonight, the big mistake during the s.a.t. exam. tonight, we'll have late developments. also, the families punished for cheering on their loved ones at graduation? we wondered, could this be true? a major development tonight. and look at this. the amazing stunt. high above the ground. would you ever do something like this? turns romantic why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may 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>> reporter: the team in raleigh, north carolina, seen by tens of millions tonight. earning aretha and her friends on that stage a whole lot of respect. and it wasn't just the footwork. ♪ ooh your kisses sweeter than honey ♪ >> whoo! ♪ my money ♪ >> reporter: and just how did johanna colon prepare for this moment? with her dance instructor. >> she has that energy all the time, and so just being on stage, you know, i see her like that every week. >> reporter: and her station in raleigh, abc-11, asking johanna how she felt on that stage. >> i abc 7 presents dubs on 7, the toyota pregame show. >> game two of the nba finals turned into steph curry's worst nightmare. face fo face. body to body with matthew dellavedova all night long. with the game on the line an air ball from the mvp. now how does steph bounce back and how do the warriors shut down lebron james. this series is tied at a game a piece. pivotal game three in cleveland. we find out, next. just minutes ago in cleveland, steph curry working on his handle and looking good shooting in pregame warm-up. welcome as abc 7 presents "dubs on 7," the toyota pregame show. we're 30 minutes and 40 seconds away from abc's coverage of game three of the nba finals. live in cleveland with mike shumann. he'll have the latest on an apparent klay thompson knee injury. it was heavily wrapped when we saw him earlier. also the adjustment the warriors have to make to get steph curry free from the aussie glove, matthew dellavedova. and thoughts from delly from his mates down under. and draymond green. we thought this series was over when he got hurt. the cavs may be better with delly on the court. andrew bogut will come in to make the pick. a bogut dunk. bogut sets the pick and kyrie is content. but misses a wide open jumper. dellavedova fights through the pick to get back on steph. you are thinking this guy is just glued to me.