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Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20220106 00:43:00

politician in khartoum right now is going to be prepared to play along with the military? i have my doubts about that, but it is not for the military actually to select, you know, the prime minister. it s for the civilians themselves to agree on the person that they would like to put in that place, and. i know that s the theory of the deal signed back in 2019. but you cannot believe that s the reality, can you? well, it can, it can happen if there is a proper kind of consultation, and under the pressure from the street, if the military would like really, you know, to remain, i mean, as partners and remain in power, there is no doubt that they have to find a way to agree with the people. 0therwise, there d be no stability in sudan,

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20220106 00:33:00

back in khartoum who fired you would rather like you to go home and answer some questions. are you prepared to do that? no, i am not prepared to answer any questions. they are the ones who are supposed to answer questions and tell the sudanese people why they staged that coup against the will of the people and against the agreements that they have signed with the civilians. so they are the ones who are supposed to be providing answers. you call it a coup. it s a little bit of a difficult concept because, after the toppling of omar al bashir back in 2019, there was a transitional arrangement which was, in essence, a deal for cooperation between the military and civilian political leaders. now, that clearly broke down in october 2021, when mr hamdok, the leader of the transitional council, was himself removed. but mr hamdok then went back

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20220106 00:50:00

is sort of disengaged in an unhelpful way. i m going to quote you khalid 0mar yusuf, who was a member of mr hamdok s government. we know that he was detained and beaten after the october coup, and he now says the us has more power and leverage than any other international actor, but washington has failed to sufficiently exercise its influence and the sudanese people expect more. it s funny that he expects more, and yet you sit there and you seem entirely satisfied. i did not say that i was entirely satisfied, please. i said, there is, i expect a build up to happen and i am asking for more. i am not here to defend the us policy. i m here to work with them in order to see what they can do more. and that s exactly what i m doing now. isn t the truth that actually in sudan today, the us influence is much reduced and the powers that really matter, the actors that have the greatest influence in khartoum, are egypt,

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20220106 00:36:00

yes, and, of course, things change every day in khartoum. but, as we speak, the government is no doubt firmly in the grip of the military and general burhan. now, if he chooses to appoint a new ambassador to the us, which he presumably will do in the coming days, what are you going to do? well, i mean, i m still weighing my options. i ll see. i have not taken a decision yet, but you will know in the coming days and weeks. do you still have the keys to the embassy? well, not personally, but i have access to the embassy and to my colleagues, and everything is quite normal so far. and what are the americans saying to you? are they saying, hang on in there, mr satti, ambassador, because we believe we can put sufficient pressure on the generals to have you and the civilians restored to your positions in the government ?

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20220106 00:48:00

at the state department they ve given very different signals about how tough they re prepared to be with the sudanese military. mr feltman talks of sanctions, ms phee seems much more conciliatory, and joe biden hasn t even appointed a us ambassador in khartoum. frankly, it doesn t look like the us is really paying that much attention to what is happening. they have been consistently pressuring the military and talking to them. even today, there was a conversation with some of them and they will continue. i think the build up, there s a build up that s going to happen. i m convinced that congress is considering sanctions. i m sure from the part of the administration they re going to be, they will really look into some other measures that they can take to pressure the military. and i think there is a build up that s happening from that point of view. do you want new sanctions imposed on sudan, mr satti?

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