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On the credit cards, we go from 14 to 15 to $16 trillion. if were going to raise the debt ceiling, something the american people are not excited about, we should do it in a responsible way that has budget reductions, budget reforms to make sure that were not borrowing $1 trillion a year between now and kingdom come. i think thats a plausible and sensible position thats fiscally responsible. >> roland he makes it sound so plausible and sensible. >> first of all its called delusion. luke, first of...