just a job to provide for myself and his parents, but a career that he enjoyed and more importantly passionate about it even though he spent a lot of hours working, he was always love for his work. we spoke about the law and how he applied the law. he was objective in his determination of the law with courtesy, we areith respect and with the highest professionism. although he worked often, he always took time to spend with me his number one fan and his pamly and friends. he was always there when somebody needed something. when wenjian was not working, he
cared a lot for the chinese community. he wanted to always do his best to help and support. the very community that he was part of wenjian's kind heart loved by his friend and colleagues and our extended family ha isthat is here today. the caring son, a loving husband and a loyal friend. you are an amazing man even though you left us early, but i believe that he will have his loving spirit to continue to look out for us. he will keep an eye over us. wenjian is my hero. we can always count on him.
again, i thank you, my extended family my fam ily of blue for attending today's services, thank you. wen wenjian will always be in my hearts. i love you, i love you forever. [ applause ]
ing breaking news, the ongoing funeral service for new york police detective wenjian liu and you heard the widow, and the two with were married for four month, and gave what is a remarkably brave eulogy about her slain hudzsband and talking about how she was his soulmate and best friend and only son of immigrant, and very, very dedicated to his parents and mot to mention the people of new york city whom he risked his life and then died trying to protect them. there are thousands of people crowding the streets outside the brooklyn funeral home where this service is under way, and the police officers are standing shoulder-to-shoulder and notably some officers did turn their officers as the new york mayor bill de blasio did deliver
a eulogy. inside the drekirector fbi and the police commissioner and as i mentioned, officer liu's widow and his father. and his father did not speak in english, but you did not have to understand the language to feel his pain. it was really a heartbreaking, heartbreaking event. liu and his partner rafael ramos were gunned down december 27th when they were gunned down in their squad car, and we will be joined by miguel marquez who is outside of the funeral services. miguel can you tell us about the scene there among the thousands of men in blue who came all around the country to at tend this funeral. >> reporter: for the bulk of the entire ceremony there was a
contingent of asian officers just outside of the church here, and we believe that the coffin of officer liu is coming out soon and nypd officer did come up and ask whether we will be broadcasting live or speaking at that time, and that is something that they want to keep very somber event here to honor this police officer as his casket moves towards its final resting place. with the are regard to the police officers turning their back here in front of the funeral home there were zero. no police officers who turned their back. just down from here, on the processional route where the casket will go there with were some police officers who did turn their backs according to our sara ganim who is down tlhere and other producers who saw them but much smaller number than last week, and the police commissioner asking by memo to
the police force that it was not an appropriate thing to do. that it is a time for grieving and not grievance and that when they turned their back on the mayor during officer ramos' funeral last week they did no valor to the officer's sacrifice and honor of his job in doing so. so he has asked them not to do it now. you can see now the police officers are lining up now. this is the ceremonial unit of the nypd lining up in order to receive the body the casket of officer liu. we expect to see that coming out of here shortly. it looks like they may be slightly ahead of schedule and though it is a little unclear that the family did arrive an hour before the ceremony began and several speakers to listen to his father speak, and i don't speak cantonese, but to listen to him speaking and trying to
get through the words and emotion, and it was hard to watch that. this was meant to go for another hour and he may be coming out soon. the ceremony they had in there was a lot of individuals bringing food to the location of the casket and also burning pieces of paper or cardboard to symbolize things from the physical word the food and those symbol ss are things that officer liu in the buddhist tradition would take on to the next life. dana? >> miguel i agree with you to watch his father to lose any child is just defy sies the laws of nature, but to lose your only son as he did is just words just can't can express how much grief he must be feeling right now. thank you very much and stand by us miguel because we want to go to cnn correspondent sarah
again mim who ganim who is outside of the funeral home. >> can you hear me? >> yes, it is dana bash sarah, and can you hear us? we are having trouble getting her ifp working, and we will go inside of the studio to tom fuentes, and you are a law enforcement analyst, but also a cop on the beat where you started outside of chicago for six years. and for those of us who have never served or had the honor of serving, talk about what is it like, and what has drawn thousands of people around the country including towns like chicago for this funeral? >> well to understand police officers it helps to have been one and having been in the life of a police officer. it is not a job but a way of life and not just for you, but the family. it is what has been carried
through for the ramos and liu families they have to live with the life and the fear and the threat, and i know my mother who had passed away now, she had a husband and two sons who were police officers at the same time, and she had this worry every day. >> i cannot imagine. i cannot imagine. the koncontroversy about what these officers faced when it came to racial protests and some of the protests getting personal when it came to the police officers after the killings in ferguson missouri of black teenagers in new york city. as somebody who has bp on the street and been on the beat what strikes you when you see all of this? >> what strikes me is that the one message that people don't really realize and the one thing about being a police officer is that you realize in the entire
criminal justice system, and in the entire medical system and the entire community leader ss, the police officer deals with the victim. the victims die in your arms and the victims die in the ambulance with you in the hospital or in the surgery at the hospital after they have been shot is or stabbed or involved in a terrible accident and it is the police and there is an image that the police have no empathy or sympathy for the members of the public and in the arereality, they have more. the hardened exterior to cope with that is the fact that the police see itt everyday. if the they have animosity, and the the guys carrying the guns in the community, and the gang-bangers gunning down other members, it is because they are seeing the the people shot by the gangs, and the people victimized by the crime. >> absolutely. so i want to turn back to the scene so that the viewers know what we are look ging at, the
funeral just concluded, and we are watching the sea of blue police officers from all over there, and you will see the color guard getting ready, and looks like we are waiting for the casket to come out to take wen wenjian liu to his final resting place. miguel marquez is there. >> these funerals are so tough to watch and to see this brotherhood and sisterhood to come together. if you can pan over here, ricky, this is the ceremonial unit inside of the funeral home. they are now lining up outside of the funeral home and the co color guard with the u.s. flag the new york citying in ing inand the nypd flag are going to line up in front of the hearse that will take detective liu to his final resting place. the level of mourning and the
sense of the sol lumemn nature of what is happening here is unmistakable. what we saw here today is a service that we are not accustomed to and to hear his father speak in cantonese, and even though none of us spoke cantonese, it was very clear and the love of his son was very clear. they did some translation afterwards to talk about how his son would heldp him come work in the garment district after his school work and he would call him and very conscientious and good son. the mayor talked about detective liu's love of fishing. and his cousin spoke about, and we all called him wenjian liu, but his family called him joe. it is how they have become an american family in their own
way, and now with the ceremonial unit out of the the funeral home it seems that they are now waiting for the mayor of the other dignitaries and the other director to come out, and then we believe we will see the casket of wenji aan liu come out of the funeral home to make its way. >> and what miguel is talking about is so true in that what you heard in the eulogies and throughout the service is that people were humanizing him, and he was not a number or a cop on the beat that was killed, but a human being with a family who loved him so much but another thing is what truely american story this is. and so classic new york. and so specific new york you have the son of immigrants coming in and really wanting to be a good american as they called him joe, and looking at
the line of work that he chose. >> and for many of the immigrant families especially when a son or daughter says that i want to be a police officer, the families coming in from other countries, they say, you can't be a police aufofficer in the united states, and this is the wild west and the rest of america looks at us with our 300 million gun s ins in a population of 320 million looks at us as violence and out of control and the violence on the streets and the wild west atmosphere and so in some ways when they hear that their family members want to be a police officer, they rare terrified, and that is probably why he had to call his dad after every shift to say he is still alive he made him. >> and i would want my son to call me after his shift everyday too, so i understand.
and we have a sea of oblue and police men from all over the country to attend the funeral, and sara can you tell us what you are seeing? >> yes, dana this is the procession route, and i have stepped away from the route to be respectful not to disrupt the officers who are lined up to watch the ceremony, but they have lined up here and listened to every single speaker, and tens of thousands is of officers are here to pay their respects. it is not the brightest or the warmest or the driest of days here in brooklyn but they did not come out in any less numbers as they did last week for officer ramos' funeral. you heard are from wenjian liu's father who spoke in mandarin and he said that he was so proud of his son to be a member of the nypd and to help the immigrant community when he was not working. and we heard a couple of notable
things prfrom the fbi director james comey and new york mayor bill de blasio and we wondered if there would be an honor of the commissioner to not turn their back on the mayor as he spoke, and we did see some officers turn around and not a majority and not even half of the officers where we were standing, but some. and more than the nypd and some officers who were from out of town who also turned around for the speech. this tepgs between the nypd and the mayor have been growing since the protest in new york, but many of the officers i have spoken to here from nypd and out of town say they don't believe that the funeral for a fallen officer is a place for that. and to give you the idea of how many officers are here this is a sea of blue for nearly a mile and this is how long the route
is for those who want to pay their respects. jetblue flew in more than 1,100 officers from all over the country for free. i have seen badges and vehicles from cincinnati and virginia and connecticut and california and it is a long way to come. i have talked to three officers who came from outside of new orleans and they said it was incredibly important for them to be here for this, and not to show support for the fallen officer, but also because they feel that they do still get the re respect and earn the respect of the majority of the nation, and they wanted to show that to the world by coming here to this funeral, and just another note dana about security here because it is not just police officers, but it is a lot of the communities here in the streets, and we are seeing the patrols on the roofs, and canine units and helicopters and many of the units are blocked off on the
procession route where the casket is going to be driven down to the cemetery. it is not the only roadblocked off here. they are making sure that it is a safe place for them to hold this ceremony and to hold a proper funeral for one of their fallen. dana. >> thank you and great the information and color there. i should mention that as you were speaking sara we saw some of the congressional delegation exiting the funeral home there. is another one, peter king, the republican from new york coming out, and some other well known republicans, charlie rangel and congressman joe crowley who was on the show earlier today whose father and grandfather who were both new york city police officers and so we are watching the dignitaries come out, and that probably means not too far behind will be the casket of the slain officer, and while we are watching that i want to turn back to tom fuentes.
and you heard sara talking about despite the commissioner bill bratton asking the rank and file not the turn their backs, some did. she reported very important to note that it was not the number that it was at rafael ramos' funeral, but it happen ded nonetheless from a treatise from their leader because it detracts from the respects of their fallen comrade. and tom, what do you make of that as a former officer? >> i think they should not have done it in my opinion, it is not the time or place as mentioned by commissioner bratton. and i thought that commissioner bratton's request to not do it and he said that he would not discipline any officers and no repercussions that way, and he requested it as a fellow officer, and he was a fellow officer in the 1970s when we were pigs and spit on and he
thought that police officers out there out of respect for him, and despite the feelings for the mayor which are neg thetive and deep, but out of respect for him, they might honor that respect. >> and let me play the devil's advocate they defect the freedom of speech everyday and why shouldn't they have their freedom of speech? why shouldn't they display their ainge anger if they are angry? >> they should, but by doing it today, they are talking about that instead of the great life of officer ramos, and their parents, and the other great officers in the world, and talk act this issue and that is the reason enough not to do it. >> i get that. and the big picture, and the years you were a cop? >> yes, in illinois, and 1970 to 1973 when i became a member of the fbi. >> and racial issues have
changed since then, and society has changed since then but is this something that the police force focus odd n? >> absolutely. the idea that when people say we need community policing. they have had community policing. my father was a police officer and it was a kid going with him to community events and chaperoning field trips and dances and all of that and i was 1 years old when he was a police officer, and the idea that the police need to get into the community and work them, and when you talk about what officer liu and ramos did in their communities tashgs i are a part of that as well as thousands of nypd officers engaged everyday in their community and in the neighborhoods talking to the people trying to help in the policing that they are doing. i the think that is part of what the police are upset about with the public rhetoric that they have not done community policing or they need training because they don't know how to talk to people. police aufofficers have a phd in
street psychology and if they don't talk to somebody properly it is because they don't want to and not because they don't know how. it is not because they need to take classes on wrestling, because the modern police officer has to be a wrestler and telling somebody they are under arrest and the person won't comply that is not going to cut it. and the rhetoric about policing needs to be that we need to have a discussion and not accusations back and forth by sound bite. >> and on that note, we need to return to the solemnity of this moment and hopefully we can see another picture of the sea of blue because it is powerful and poignant. and there it is. and before we go to t rehe reporters in the sea, tom, as a former police officer, yourself and what goes through your mind as you see that e remarkable scene. >> the brother 450d and the sisterhood of law enforcement, and why it is close, and why the remind minder of it. 115 police officers have died in
the line of duty this year, and it is because of the recent amount of public discussion that has been so negative about policingch that is actually contributing to the police officers wanting to travel from california and canada and new orleans to come to be a part of this because they realize that they need to show the solidarity of being in the profession and calling together. >> well, it is looking like solidarity and achieving that by looking at the pictures. miguel marquez, i want to bring you back in, and listening to tom fuentes and being a police officer, and looking at the police officers from all over the country, and i would believe that is the sentiment that you are seeing there on the ground? >> yes, it sis, and i can see a half mile down and you can see a fine line of blue all of the way down. they have created just enough space in the very wide street so that the funeral cortege can make its way down that way.
the mayor is speakingt that funeral in a personal way about detective liu. also this attack on both detective liu and ramos was not just an attack on two individuals, but it was an attack on the city of new york. the police work the police department being the bedrock of civil society, and the necessity to honor police officers and to have a good relationship between the political set and the police set. so my sense is that the rancor that we have seen in the recent weeks, and the anger in recent weeks h will find ss will find a newer and bet better level, and we have seen in the last half hour not only dignities, but police officer s to come out of the funeral home, and we expect to see the casket of detective liu to emerge shortly for the final ride to
its final resting place. >> and miguel, you have sort of been experiencing the whiplash of emotions there in new york city and now more the past couple of weeks, because of the assassination of these two police officers but then just prior to that the anger at the justice system and in many ways, the cops that we have heard, but the justice system because eric garner who was now everybody knows was killed during an arrest after he was trying to illegally sell cigarettes and the uproar about no indictments about that. >> that is the ancillary and i have logged many miles as they have angrily taken over to the streets here and that is where a lot of the rancor between the
mayor and the nypd comes from. there were beat cops walking alongside the protesters and stopping the traffic to make sure they could be safe and making sure adds they were taking over the streets and the city were safe. governor cuomo said it in his remarks last week probably best there is no better sign of what a great police department that we have that they were at the butt end of the anger of the protesters, and yet, they were protecting their fest first amendment rights while they were taking their abuse at the same time. so that's the sort of stuff that we saw for many, many miles through the streets of new york, and i am sure that those beat officers told their buddies by text and social media and everything else you should hear what they are calling us and hear what they are saying. there is already upset with the mayor before these two officers' deaths, but afterward ss, it took it to another level.
and i want to tell you that the towers to tunnels program that offered to pay off the home loans for them and they needed $800,000 and they have $700,000 and so they can almost pay off their home loan ss. and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been raised for these two individuals. for people who felt they were left out in the cold, and bereft and not loved in the city, and last week's funeral, and this week's funeral is showing a different picture. >> thank you, miguel for the insights and as you were speaking former mayor rudy giuliani is there to pay his respects as well. i want to go back to sara ganim who is there in the crowd, and by way of the context and the background, we have been talking about the new york mayor bill de
blasio and the anger that he has apparently incited among these many of the cops the reason most recently is the reason that he taught his biracial son how to handle whether when he is approached by a police officer, because he would be approached differently, because of the color of his skin. and sara, that is what sparked the people turning their backs on him when he spoke last week and to a much lesser extent just this morning. >> reporter: that is right, dana and some say it goes back to his opposition of stop and frisk when he was running for mayor. and being here, and not just here for the wake yesterday and the funeral today, but going back a few weeks to the very public memorial site in brooklyn -- >> sorry, sara, i am sorry to
interrupt, but i want to tell you that the family and the widow and the father of wenjian liu just exited the funeral home. keep going, i apologize. >> no, that is okay, dana. the days after were emotions very raw where the members of the community where where the members of the community had marched in the community had marched in the protests and they said this is not the time to criticize the mayor. there was a scene from the memorial and i witnessed it and it was so incredibly powerful where a woman came with a sign for officer ramos' young son who said that your father had nothing wrong and she was having a hard time to tape it to the brick wall and officer came up to put it up on the wall and they put it up together and it was representative at the mood of the memorial, because it was interesting at the same time that some of of the police
unions were criticizing the mayor, and now a few weeks remove d removed from here at the funeral here at the wake, and i heard many officers some of them former nypd who work in other departments in other states who had come back for this say, look, it is a political issue, and also a very personal issue for many of the officers but this funeral is not the place for that. and that comes from this feeling that last week at officer ramos' funeral, the pictures, the the photographs of the nypd turning their backs on the mayor, those were incredibly powerful pictures, and they changed the narrative of that day away from the funeral, and away from the celebration of his life and towards a more political issue, and people did not want to see that happen again today. >> and sara i have been in those situation, and it is physically difficult to move around but have you talked to any of the officers who defied commissioner bratton and turned their backs nonetheless?
>> well shgs, i have not, but dana, from where i am, it was not a whole lot of them around certainly mot the numb lyly not the numbers that we saw last week and in the crowd of about 450 where i can see and count from where i am standing maybe 50, or maybe even less, and then some of them were not nypd at all, and they were officers from other jurisdictions who wanted to make the point that they stand alongside the nypd on this issue, but it wasn't a majority and it was not half. it was a few. and their commissioner william bratton, when he made this plea for them not to do this today, he said look it is not a mandate and i won't discipline anybody over it, but i am asking that this day not become about this conversation that we are having right now, that it become that the narrative stay with officer liu and his family
and the nypd and like i mentioned before when i talked to officers who came in from out of town i did get the feeling that one of the reason ss that they wanted to come was because they wanted to show that solidarity and they wanted to show that they do feel the support of the nation and while this is a personal issue, a lot of them felt that it was an issue for today. >> thank you, and that is the case for today. for the viewers who are tuning in we are looking at a cold and rainy day in new york city, but one that is not deterring the thousands is of police officers and dignitaries who have come from around the kuncountry to pay their respects to officer wenjian liu who lost his life and killed on desemcember 20th along with his partner rafael ramos. there was an incredibly moving funeral service that included speeches not just from the
dignitaries such as the mayor as we have been discussing or the police commissioner, but hi father who spoke cantonese, and did not speak english, but you did not need to speak that language that to understand the sorrow and the pain of losing his not only son, but his only son and his only child, and then from his widow who he was married to for two months who called him her best friend her soulmate and somebody who really gave his all for not just her and his family but for the city of new york. i want to bring back tom fuentes, and as we look, we are as i mentioned, we heard the ceremony and seeing everybody leave. what we are waiting for right now is for the casket of wenjian liu to exit the funeral home and make its way down to what the reporters on the scene have been describing over a mile of people just lined up on the procession route.
what are your thoughts as we areing at this now? >> just how moving and solemn and the emotions of the officers are of everyone who is attending this. and you know if any good came from the last two weeks of the funeral s funerals, it is that when you have got to know officer ramos and the family better and officer liu and the family better you realize that they are not just people but great human beings and great people and the things they stood for, they are the best that our society has, and they are police officers. it makes me proud to have been a police officer and fbi agent and 36 years sworn in both positions, and makes me proud that i was one of them. >> tom i have seen you on our air talking about a lot of really, really horrible things unfortunately over the last couple of years, but this is
personal for you, i can tell. this is so thank you, for doing this and you are bringing a sense of what it is like for those of us who again didn't have the honor to serve can understand. i want to go totoer errol louis and tom verni, and what are your thoughts? >> well listening to e dedetek detective liu's family and his wife speak, and like you said you don't have to speak the language to know the raw emotion they are channeling. it is unbelievable tragedy that many of us can't wrap our heads around what took place a couple of weeks ago.
i know that as seen earlier on cnn there were a number of nypd officers that did turn their backs when the mayor was speaking, and then when the police commissioner came up to speak they turned back around, so it is important to note that the officers out of respect for commissioner bratton did turn around and for the entire funeral were faced forward. the only time that some of them did turn around is when the mayor was speaking. >> what do you make of that? >> well, you have to remember that the police are not allowed to strike here in new york. there is a law that prevents them from striking. they are working pour or five years without a contract, and aside from the political rhetoric that mayor de blasio has come out not only as mayor, but as a candidate when he was running for mayor, and also his comments after the no true bill in staten island for the eric garner incident he has come out in a very anti-nypd specifically
set of rethetoric. and the officers, you can't not take that lightly, because this is somebody that you are working for, and aside from the fact ta they are working for years without a contract which in and upon itself is ridiculous, this is the only way that they have a chance as a group to have a silent protest to show their discomfort with the mayor and disagree with him. they are basically giving him a no confidence vote is what it is coming down to. they don't have any confidence in the mayor to prept them in a favorable light -- to represent them in a favorable light, and it is not just based on the perception but on the mayor's actions in the last year or two. >> ander roll -- and errol, you have covered the police department for many years, and new york city and does this strike you as more raw and
intense than in the past? >> well, it is unusual, and not more raw. anybody who was around in 1992 when 10,000 cops essentially rioted on the steps of city hall sort of stormed the building and caricatures and that was a time of very high crime. crime is at a historic lows and as tom points out, there are underlying workplace issues that need to be resolved and not by bill de blasio's making and he has been there for one year and five-year no contract is something that he inherited and trying to e negotiate, and for this department to be as upset as they are speaks to the difficulty of changing the culture of the very large, very respected and very proud organization and there is no question that the change is endorsed by the citizens of new york. they voted in bill de blasio for a reason. this is not some side plank or side print in his agenda,
because it is central for what he ran on, and he won in overwhelming votes to make change. >> and speaking of mayor de blasio blasio he did speak in the funeral in the last hour. i want to play a little bit of what he said. let's listen. >> detective wenjian liu was a brave man. he walked a path of courage. a path of sacrifice and a path of kindness. this is who he was. and he was taken from us much too soon. >> i want to go back to you, tom. as a former member of the nypd and as a detective, when you hear the mayor say that does that make you feel more feel better a about the mayor and the tension that we have seen thus far that he is trying hard
obviously to mend the fences? >> well, it is something that i have not seen in quite a while. i honestly, you know, me, personally, and i think that i speak on behalf of a number of officers, and i can't speak on behalf of the entire department of course but i don't really put a lot of, you know credibility into the words that he came out with. i mean, he is really trying to back pedal as best he can. i think that he knows that on a lot of levels that he, you know spoke, i h think, out of turn and especially after the grand jury made their verdict out of staten island and you can't take back what you said and you can maybe offer the retraction and come back and say, listen maybe i spoke out of turn and maybe not saying that the entire nypd is a bunch of racist storm trooper, because that is what he was saying. what happened in staten island
had nothing to do with the race, and it was an arrest of a career criminal who chose to resist arrest and the officers used physical force to arrest him, and unfortunately result ed ined in that man's death, and that is in part of itself a tragedy. you won't find any officers glad that person died but it is certainly not the result of the officers looking for, and quite frankly, the officers that day were enforcing quality of life law has the mayor and the city council are out there wanting them and demanding they enforce. >> turning away from the politics for a moment and back to the solemnity of the moment. what we are seeing now, and waiting for casket of wenjian liu to come out, and while we do, i want to come back to remarkable and the brave eulogy that his widow, and the two were married for two months gave
during the funeral ceremony. listen to this. >> i thank you for sharing this moment with me. with us. with our family. to reflect the goodness of his soul. and the wonderful man that he is. many of you know as joe, especially at work. but to me he is my soulmate. >> tom, back to you in new york. you know, while you are on the beat, i'm guessing as tom fuentes here in the d.c. studio said to me a short while ago, your family is on pins and needles everyday even though things like this don't happen very often, and you are always in the line of fire and it is your duty and what you do? >> yeah, i had a full head of
hair when i started the police department and for those who have seen me it has taken its toll and i did 22 years in the nypd, and i was a beat cop, and community policing and so the concept of the communeity policing that some people have talked about and maybe trying to e restore here in new york i think it is a fantastic way of policing neighborhoods. it absolutely is. and when it is done correctly, and the nypd unfortunately have lost 7,000 or 8,000 police officers since the time of 9/11 and so the physical bodies that you need to conduct that, it is going to be taking some fancy footwork to reassignment personnel to do that the, but that would be a great way to do that to reconnect with the communities in the city. but either way, whether you are doing the community policing or the narcotics tails or chase canning after gangsters, any time you are walking around, you are a walking target. so until you finish the stint
that you are slated to do whether it is 20 or 25 years in the police department and until you get out and retire do the families breathe a sigh of relief that you are finished and do your duty. >> i can imagine. miguel marquez, back to you at the scene. we are looking at the two flags from the color guard, and the ceremonial and now they are going up so perhaps we are going to be seeing the the casket coming out soon. but miguel, it is cold can and rainy and still packed with people there. >> they are not going anywhere, and this is a solid blue mass that want toss to show the support. the rain has been going on, and it has stopped now shgs, and the trumpeters have come out so we expect "taps" will be played soon. there were a number of things that we learned in the service. the the mayor gave two examples.
clear ly clearly he spent a lot of time with the liu family in the last couple of weeks. clearly a man who loved to fish and when he got a big fish he loved to share it with with the family. and two was the call he went on and there was a call of a man who had fallen and he spoke chinese and when they needed help he would be called in and the man was on the floor and he didn't want to get up or move and liu spent hours with this man and turned out that it was a guy who was elderly and just wanted some company, and liu was more than happy to play along and help this guy up, and those tiny things. and this is a guy who studied accounting but he wanted to become a cop. and he did. bill brotton, the police commissioner spoke about being a cop. he came to the profession late, but the pool was just as strong as someone like brill bratton who joined very, very young. perhaps the most telling sign of this family and the remarkable life was his cousin who said
that we didn't call him wenjian but we called him joe. this is a family that arrived here 20 years ago from china and has become fully american family as we wait for the only son of this family wenjian liu to make his way out of the funeral home here in brooklyn. dana. >> absolutely heartbreaking to watch and think about. and while we are weight, werare waiting, we want to go to another portion of the funeral home and hear from the new york police commissioner bill bratton and hear what he had to say. >> officer liu believed in the possibility of making a safer world. all cops do. it is why we do what we do. and it is why we run towards danger when others run away. we believe in the possibility of keeping disorder controlled.
we believe in the possibility of a city free from fear. >> pretty emotional from him, and at times in watching his speech even somebody who has seen a lot in his many decades on the police forces across the country look like it was hard for him to sort of keep it together understandably given the gravity of the moment and the speech that he had to give for the loss of his rank and file. we are looking at the color guard and the ceremonial moment when wenjian liu's casket comes out of the funeral home to begin a procession in what the re reporters on the scene there have described as remarkable a mile long the sea of people and
not just police officers around the country, but the everyday average new york citizens out there, and sara is out there with the people. sa sara, as they are ready for the moment for the processional and what are you hear prg the people -- hearing from the people on the street there? >> reporter: dana i am here with a group of toronto officers who have collected badges from a group of the people here who have handed them out the the members of the community and not souvenirs, but handing them out as a remembrance of the day, a it was a really good moment. it was a great moment to see the officers first of all from so far away and not even part of this country and the united states interacting with the members of the community who came here from far away places who are here to just pay their
respects and as they wait along the procession line, they are exchange, and the worlds are colliding. it was a sweet moment. mostly you know officers are standing out here. and it is driz canzling on and off, and they are waiting along a packed processional line, and they are waiting to pay their respects. off officers are here from all across the country, and more than 1,100 came in on jetblue for free, but i would venture to say that i would take the guess to say that there are more than 1,100 officers here from out of town. i have seen so many with my own eyes from departments across the country, and not just the officers are here dana and something that i have noticed is that i have seen patrol cars from as far away as ohio. i saw a group of sheriff's deputies on motorcycle who clearly came here from cincinnati out of state, and that is showing that they drove
all of this way on the motorcycles to be here today. i have seen the patrol cars from other states as well not as far away as ohio, but there were a group of motorcycle officers from new jersey today traveling in a group. so we have seen a lot of nuggets that sew that this is really a community event, and when i say "community" i mean not just new york but community of support and community of within new york as well but a lot of moments today that are indicative of why people want to be here. the events in new york in the last couple of weeks, that is part of it. there is a feeling that they need to come here to show support because of the recent events here. that is clear to me. a couple of the officers here who talked to me from out of state and had been members of the nypd prior to leaving the
state told me that they wanted to make it clear that nypd is very diverse, and very diverse and large department. they didn't buy into this idea that there is you know widespread racism. they wanted to come to show and stand alongside their follow officers officers, and show their support because of that reason, and i have to say it is something that is very clear as we stand outside here today. dana, finally, i want to say that it does appear that things are going to be moving along here shortly. as you look down the sea of blue i want to make it clear that this is a very, very long procession line because there is nearly a mile worth of police officers standing here filling up more than half of the street so that they can be here and witness officer wenjian liu's final drive to the final resting place. they are waiting here to pay their final respect ss.
dana? >> and is sara talked about the solidarity as they say, and they all bleed blue. that is very clear in watching these pictures and these images. solidarity is not just about the local police from new york and around the country, but the federal law enforcement. james coalmymey is the drekirector of the fbi, and he spoke. >> i was not lucky enough to know detective liu. but i have listened to other people talk about how deeply he cared about being a police officer. >> and former fbi officer, tom fuentes, why so important for
the director of the fbi to be there to speak? >> well to let people know that it is an international issue, and he represents the federal law enforcement, and it is more than the thin blue line, because all of the international partners stand together the as well. the fbi is a conduit the rest of the world through the legal at ta attache program, and they can get assistance from each other, and it is a worldwide fraternity and not just within the ud or-- within the united states or new york. >> and errol louis, as you look at the pictures the perception of outside of new york city is a rough and tumble place, but when push comes to shove, the new yorkers get together and they hold hands and really there for each other.
i noeknow a lot of the people that we are seeing in these pictures are cops from out of the city but errol, as somebody who has covered new york city, and been a resident of new york city for a long time i'm guessing that is probably not a surprise to you? >> oh no not at all. the thin blue line is pretty thick and long as you can see. i mean, i should mention that my dad is a retired nypd inspector, and my older sister is a retired detective. there are lots and lots of people who have lots and lots of close relationships to the cops. new yorkers are extremely proud of the nypd and it is an important institution in the town. one thing that is important, dana, the protesters who were doing a lot of the "black lives matter" one of the slogans and organizing all over the country, and they inspired sort of a not quite backlash but a parallel movement, and there were lots of people who have been out there doing their own marches in
surprising number of jurisdictions all over to the country, and from massachusetts to utah, to seattle and everywhere in bewean, these sort of spontaneous citizen rallies in sup role for policing. and one of the central democratic institutions in our country. >> and as you said your father was or is on the police force, and what is your opinion in
regard to the national racial tensions? >> well, i called up my dad, and i call him up anyway but i asked him about some of the events and what he thought, and he said that he was surprised that the cops had turned the backs and so forth and he read that as them being ma nup lated by the union relationship in a way that would not have happened in the day. it is fine to be angry with the political leadership and fine to do something about it but you don't do it when you are in uniform, and not because it is the thing to do. these things tend to work themselves out, and his perspective which is valuable is that it ebbs and flows, and the cops get upset about one thing or another, and whether it is creation of the civilian complaint review board which is a hot button issue a generation ago or appointment of the new inspector general which is a recent fight and court fight or the stop and frisk, and now body cameras and other procedural
questions, and it is something that plays out in the public, but it is not supposed to divide the city. as i mentioned here in new york and you have it right up there on the screen there is not so fundamental of a breach that the whole town is going to fall apart. it is the kind of dispute that comes up every so often do we need to tweak it a little bit. my friend tom mentioned eric garner as a career criminal and they would say, he is a guy selling loose cigarettes and trying to scratch outt a living on the wrong side of the law, but you give that guy a ticket a warning. you don't swarm him with six cops and end up killing him, and these are the indkind of fine-tuning questions that need to go on at the the community level. that is where this gets solved andt not so much the politicians. >> no question, err oshgtsol and as
with we await the casket coming out of the funeral home, i want to get back to the human element here as we are seeing a young man slain in the line of duty. and i want to go to what his cousin officer liu's cousin said about him speaking at his funeral earlier today. >> he was the most caring and thoughtful cousin that anyone could have. he would go out of his way to make sure that we were always happy and taken care of. he brought pride and honor to our family. he was a role model for many. myself included. and will continue to be. >> oh. that is just incredible and poignant. miguel marquez is standing outside of the funeral home and he watched the entire funeral, and you are watching the the scene right now, deskribcribe it.
>> oh, it is always tough to take take, the drum corps has just come up from a side street. they have specialized vehicle that they have filled with the flowers from inside of the funeral home with a badge of the city of new york police department and the drum corps may be the most chilling of everything that will happen today as they march down the street, and the steady beat and the steady dirge as they pass the line of blue. several members from inside of the funeral home have come out, and we expect that things have expected to get going here fair fairly soon. it is very, very difficult to watch. impressive in the mile or so that i can see, all blue.
just moments prior. live in bridgewater new jersey near the president's golf club where he is expected sometime now. brian? >> reporter: hi, sandra. look. a rashable development just an hour ago with the president deciding to disban entirely two of his key economic councils. the manufacturing council, which was built entirely to help him keep american jobs here with 12 big time ceo's on that council. as well as disbanning the strategic and policy council really meant to help him forge a new economic policy. well, the president under pressure really sending out that tweet saying that he's essentially relieving pressure for all of these ceo's who are now forced to make a decision as to whether to stand by the president or not, given his comments on charlottesville. remember, nine ceo's out of the 12 in that manufacturing forum had resigned as of this afternoon. in fact, 20 minutes after the president sent that tweet in
resigned. yesterday in a press conference, the president struck a much different tone. he essentially said not only really calling these leaders an embarrassment, but he also said the reason they were leaving these councils was because they had jobs outside of the united states. listen to what the president said about these ceo's who were resigning just yesterday. >> they're not taking their job seriously as it pertains to this country. i have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they're leaving out of embarrassment because they make their products outside. i have been lecturing them, including the gentle man that kwraoeur referring to, about you have to bring it back to this country. >> reporter: so, again, that was a decidedly different tone from what we saw in the tweet today, sandra. the president disbanding both. in a tweet said he also said there were many more ceo's that would have taken those positions
she said i know you want to spread her message, but please be respectful of my daughter. heather's father was one of the first to speak today. he was highly emotional in tears. despite his incredible level of grief, he was able to make a calm appeal for healing and reconciliation. >> she wanted to put down hate and for my part, we just need to stop all this stuff and just forgive each other. >> reporter: heather's mother, susan, offered a completely different message and hinted at where her daughter's alleged feistiness may have come from. >> they tried to kill my child to shut her up. well, guess what? you just magnified her. >> reporter: the crowd stood on its feet in the after math of that remark then. after the ceremony was done, senator tim caine and governor mccullough came out to appeal
for healing and also for virginia to move forward past its sometimes checkered racial past. >> i'd like that to be the message for all americans. we got to move forward together. we've got to stop the rhetoric. we've got to stop the language. we've got to work together. our nation is a nation of immigrants. it is that great mosaic tile that has made us the great united states of america. >> reporter: someone asked mccall live after that will you remove all confederate monuments from virginia. neither answered. i asked them, especially governor mccauliffe. will you repute the violence from the left? he didn't answer that either. sandra? >> sandra: doug mcelway, thank you for that. as the nation recovers from last week's events in virginia, our next guest has a new idea aimed at bridging the gap between our
past and modern day. instead of tearing down confederate monuments, she says build more statues to commemorate for our notable minorities, freedom fight ers. cheryl, it's a difficult subject, but it's an uncomfortable conversation as that young woman's mother talked about at that memorial service today that has to be had. in your piece in "the washington times" you begin it by saying charlottesville is coming to a city near you, count on it. the big question that follows all of this is where does it stop? you are offering a solution. what is that? >> right, sandra. thanks for having me. welsh basically if we're going to go about and tear down monuments because they hurt people's feelings, they bring back memories of times that we would rather forget, then
instead, why don't we build up monuments that show the other side of the story. instead of tearing down robert e. lee, for instance, why not put up monuments that the left would like to see? that the left would like to see put up as inspirational to other americans? there are blacks who fought on the union side in the civil war. there are even blacks who served in the confederacy. more as manual labors and cooks and so forth. but that aside, moving on through history, there are all kinds of minorities that could be formed as monuments and placed next to those so called offensive historical monuments that people are so busy trying to tear down. that way we would have a balanced reflection. next to robert e. lee, maybe we have martin luther king or something like that. i'm just suggesting, let's stop this madness of whitewashing history and tearing down the foundations of america and instead symbolically build something together. >> sandra: in your piece you ask a question that president trump
asked at that news conference yesterday. is george washington next. you asked is the thomas jefferson monument in washington, d.c. next? i'll ask you that question here now. >> it would seem to be. if you're following that train of logic that all of these monuments that bring up memories of racism have to be torn down and erased from american history, erased from the entire nation, then you just can't stop with the civil war. you have to go back to the founding fathers, many of whom were slave holders. many of whom were staupblg advocates of slaves. and so why not thomas jefferson? why not george washington? thomas jefferson was a slave holder. if we're going to tear down his monument, follow that train a little further, we might as well tear up the declaration of independence because, hey, he wrote most of it. this is where this danger is
leading. i had the opportunity about a year ago to sited on a panel of notable people to discuss racism in america. one of the emerging themes that came out of this room full of leftists is that america is inherently racist because our documents were created by slave holders and old racist white men. this is where this is leading and we need to be aware of it. it's not so much about monuments, it's political. >> sandra: in your piece you say tearing down is symbolic of anger, partisanship, violence. but building unity and healing, it's also a means of enriching america's public shows of history and fostering deeper debate. that deeper debate is what we all need. the two sides are justchumley, . >> thank you. >> sandra: the vice president overseas taking questions about the president's response to charlottesville. he's in south america as tensions with venezuela heat up. we're live at the state department. plus, vanished more than three years ago.
let's meet at a sleep number store. hi..and i know that we have phonaccident forgiveness.gent, so the incredibly minor accident that i had tonight- four weeks without the car. okay, yup. good night. with accident forgiveness your rates won't go up just because of an accident. switching to allstate is worth it. >> sandra: new evidence in the hunt for malaysian airliner that disappeared, can you believe it, more than three years ago. as scientists narrow the search area to three areas in the indian ocean. they're using new analysis of debris recovered from the 2014 crash to search the nearly 10,000 square mile kpapbs identified last november as the likely resting place of flight 370. it mysteriously veered far off course shortly after taking off
from malaysia with 239 passengers and crew on board. vice president mike pence in chile. he did hold a joint press conference with the chilean president as he looks to build ties in tre gin and speak out against the growing crisis in venezuela. rich, the vice president said the u.s. will act on venezuela. >> reporter: that's the message for the vice president traveling in chile. when traveling throughout the region, there's a political crisis on going in venezuela. welsh president trump said the military option is on the table. the vice president has spent much of the last week stressing more of a peaceful transition to democracy in venezuela and acknowledging that the situation is urgent. >> venezuela is sliding into dictatorship. as president trump said, the united states will not stand by
as venezuela crumbles. be assured that we will continue to stand with free nations across our hemisphere until democracy is restored for the venezuelan people. >> reporter: president hinted at sanctions against venezuela. this as he travels against south america and south american leaders have rejected any idea of a u.s. military intervention into venezuela. the vice president also while he was there urged his south american counter parts to cut off north korea diplomatically, economically, tried to ice late it there, just as the state department is doing with counter parts and countries around the world. also asked about the president's comments about charlottesville and whether he thought there were good people among white supremacist protester, if there is blame on both sides and if there are other republicans condemnations. to that the vice president called the violence in charlottesville a tragedy. he said he and the president have been clear on this and he stands with the president. vice president, as you mentioned, is also returning to
the area and away from this trip a day early. he'll go to panama, but return from panama thursday as opposed to friday. because the president, vice president and national security team will be holding a summit session at camp david or strategy summit to discuss the fighting that's been on going there for many years. >> sandra: all right rich edson, thank you. supposed to be an announcement about infrastructure but the president's comments took a very different direction. how does the white house get back on track? the panel weighs in next. plus, the stage is set for another clash over confederate phaoupbmentes as the debate grows to take down civil war era statues. how one city is preparing for any possible violence. kreu
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>> sandra: the search is on for vandals who defaced the lincoln memorial. the national park service said the vandals used red paint to scrawl an anti-law message across one of the memorials columns. officials believe it happened early yesterday morning. workers are using a gel type paint scraper to safety remove the graffiti from the historic stone. anyone with information on the crime is asked to contact the u.s. parks police. it's infrastructure week for the white house, but that may have gotten lost in the shuffle with president trump rekindling controversy on the violence in virginia yesterday. his remarks at a news conference that was supposed to be touting his infrastructure plan. going off the grid despite john kelly who could only look on in silence as you see there. this as we learn the president has named long time aide hol
pick as the white house interim director. can she help hone in his message. joining me now, ben shapiro and host of the ben shapiro show and leslie marshall. all right. ben, let me get your take first just on the moment. what are your thoughts as we see a white house trying to get its message together particularly after that very eventful afternoon and news conference yesterday. >> my initial thought is that the biggest problem for the trump administration has been trump. not his staff. not the people who surround him. but trump. i mean, no one wants him to do the press conference he did yesterday. he went out there and did it anyway. that was the day after what was by all accounts a fine statement on white supremacist and racism. he decided he had to blow all that up for another set of headlines because he was missing something. i'm not sure hope hicks -- if john kelly wasn't the answer, i'm not sure why hope hicks would be. >> sandra: she has been a
long-time person alongside the president inside this white house. leslie, she's 28 years old. you don't hear from her or see her very much. there's a picture of her there. she doesn't have a twitter account, for example. she's been quiet, but she has been behind the scenes. is this the next hope for messaging from this white house? >> no. absolutely not. i think of his own family like ivanka, jared and his sons, if they can't reign him in from going off the rails like we saw yesterday, no one can. i would agree with ben that the biggest problem in the communications effort of this administration is the commander in chief himself, president trump. and the problem is that he doesn't stick to i believe what he has been advised by all of those around him. he doesn't stick to what is written for him in a speech, whether it's on a teleprompter or he has it in front of him on a podium. he doesn't stick to the message
they might have planned prior to him walking out and meeting with the press once the cameras are rolling and the mics are on. again, he is causing himself the largest damage. this is obviously damaging to both the republican party and the conservative movement in the united states. >> sandra: attend of the day you have to ask yourself, is the president doing what is best for his party, what is best for those who voted him into office? there is polling out there that does indicate that what trump is doing does work for his voters. >> it works for his base. i'm not sure why everyone keeps looking to his base. george w. bush by tend of his term had a base. looking at the base is not where you ought to be looking. you need to win over a lot of people you don't have. right now he's in the 30% range, 35%, somewhere in there in terms of approach rating. just appealing to the same group of people who are always going to support you. but laura ingram, a big booster
of the president, she said last night she doesn't think president trump's agenda, very hard to see from an agenda form. if you want to broaden and deepen conservative support, i don't see how those press conferences like yesterday do any good. >> sandra: as we watch the fallout from all of this, the latest the president announcing on his twitter a short time ago that he's shutting down these two business councils. the manufacturing council and the ceo advisory forum after many, i kind of lost track, i think it was seven or eight, that had quit in the moments leading up to him saying, do you know what? i'm gonna shut it down altogether. >> it's interesting because right after you had the fifth whether is a friend of mine, scott paul, walk away, president trump said, oh, i have so many ceo's that want to be on this council and then he shuts it down. which is not surprising to me. i find contradiction with this president in what he says.
but, with regard to what he is doing going forward, and when you look at the numbers and the polls, overall again agree with ben somewhat here. these polling numbers are not something that's gonna get a guy re-elected. these polling numbers, by the way, i'm not surprised mitch mcconnell polled lower. it was below double digits a couple years ago. congress i think both house and senate and that these both of those chambers are not looked on as favorable as the president. i'm not surprised by this. >> sandra: it's interesting. ben, when you go back to the second response post charlottesville from the president, the one that he took to the teleprompter to put his message out there, you didn't see the same response obviously that you are now seeing after this press conference, obviously. the president just retweeted a business insider type person, ceo type jacob rolle just in the
past hour. that person said, this is the retweet by the president. president trump alone has succeeded in bringing the stock market, small business index and consumer confidence to all time highs. the reason i wanted to bring that in here is because in that second reaction from the president in front of the teleprompter, not yesterday, he started out. he led with the economy. i have created 1 million jobs since i have been in office. ceo's are confident. so to have him repeat that message, he's going back to focus on the economy. >> that would be nice. the president can be a very powerful communicator when he wants to be. the problem is he's easily distracted by these games where he's trying to support people who he thinks support him and attack people he thinks are attacking him. sometimes that takes him down some pretty dark roads. i think we saw that yesterday. if the president would get back to his agenda. if the president would have stuck by his statements monday, we wouldn't have to do any of this. pretending this is some sort of
upside down hungry, hungry hippos is nonsense. talk about the things you're trying to do instead of getting bogged down in which people you liked at the friday night white supremacist rally. >> sandra: ben and leslie, thanks for joining us. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> sandra: after the deadly charlottesville attack, many cities and states looking at how they'll handle their own confederate statues. we are live in lexington, kentucky, where white nationalist groups are threatening to protest. plus the case of the charlottesville suspect who could face hate crime or domestic terrorism charges. why my next guess said the feds should hold off on charging him for now. [upbeat music]
agencies including the fbi to prevent any violence here. last night at a council meeting there were mixed opinions about removing these statues. >> leaving these confederate statues in public plazas has silently fueled hate. hate in this country, hate in this commonwealth and hate this council is obligated to denounce. >> by allowing these to remain, we allow people to make up their own minds what they mean to them. >> reporter: council members voted unanimously to remove these statues. the cost and location to be determined. now, in an interview, the governor of kentucky said he does not condone hatred or bigotry but yet said he disagrees with the mayor of lexington, saying removing these statues would be, quote, sanitizing history. sandra? >> sandra: all right, matt, thank you very much. no decision on whether the
suspect in the deadly charlottesville car attack will be tried in state or federal court. here's attorney general jeff sessions. >> could be 245, a civil rights violation. or 249 which is a hate crime. and there might be other charges that could be brought. our people will be working with state and local in a collaborative way. they will decide together these professionals that have been working these civil rights cases for decades. they'll be working with them to see what the best charge will be. you can be sure it will be fully investigated and thoroughly prosecuted. >> sandra: all right. joining me now donna silver. thank you for being here. tough talk from jeff sessions here, the attorney general. >> yes, but he's being a bit cautious, as he said, we have to develop the facts. here's the good news. we don't have to pick one or the other jurisdiction. we don't have to either prosecute him by virginia or in a federal court.
we can do both. let's not lose sight of something. as the facts develop to determine whether or not he can be prosecuted as a domestic terrorist, if his foot was on that pedal intentionally, he's a murderer. virginia can handle that. that's almost a cut and dry murder case. where i take a little issue on the state side, right now he's charged with second degree murder. that doesn't make any sense. he should be charged with first degree murder. virginia should be full speed ahead. elevate the charges to first degree murder and start prosecuting him while the fedding develop what they need to do in order to prove domestic terrorism charge. >> when i go back to jeff sessions, it could be a civil rights violation or hate crime. let me get to the fbi's definition of a hate crime. important to know it is a criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender
or gender identity. no decisions have been made. is the bar set higher for that? >> well, it is, because you need to connect the dot. we have some evidence right now that the suspect was affiliated with a hateful group, neonazi. we have some evidence of that. we need to connect more of the dots to determine whether that motivated him. when you're trying to prove a regular old murder case, you don't need to prove motive. when you elevate it to a hate crime or domestic terrorism, motive is what the charge hangs on. so the feds will have a time trying to prove that that was the reason for his decision to mow down a bunch of people. >> huge collaborative effort under way to determine all of this. he says as for how soon the federal government might file charge, jeff session. i don't feel like we feel like we have to do it in a matter of hours or days. what is the time frame here?
>> what's the hurry? >> there is none. the statute is very very long. they could let this stays case play out. he could be convicted in state court and they could file charges later on. that wouldn't be a problem. there's no race to determine when they have to do it. the slower they are, the better chance that those charges will stick. we don't want to charge somebody and not be able to prosecute. the thing with domestic terrorism, it will elevate his sentence. in virginia, that's what i don't like. if he's convicted of second degree murder, he's looking at up to 40 year prison term. that is not enough. >> sandra: whether it appears the attack was preplanned on jeff sessions, he says not able to comment on that. we'll have to bring those facts out at the appropriate time. seems it will be quite some time before we see this play out. >> and maybe it should be. look what they have to dig into. to prosecute him as a simple
murderer they have to prove he took a life. it's pretty straight forward. to prove a connection with what motivated him, what do they have to do? go into the computers? does he a manifesto, diary, social media, his friends? interview his entire profile. what did he wake up that day and say to himself? did he say, i'm going to mow down people because i'm a neonazi. or did he accidentally put his foot on the gas. we don't know those facts yet. >> sandra: all right. we'll keep following it, jonna, thank you for joining us. if you received an robo call saying you won a free cruise, you might be able to get 900 bucks out of it. all thanks to a class action lawsuit. claims travel agency violated telemarketing restrictions by making prerecorded robo calls from july 2009 to march 2014 without permission of the people it was calling.
the calls offered free cruises with carnival, royal caribbean and nor waoegs cruise line. those companies reportedly decided to settle. all right. while the mayor of miami dade in florida slamming president trump for his remarks in the charlottesville violence just hours before attorney general jeff sessions is said to praise the mayor's stance on sanctuary cities. a leading florida congressman joins us to talk about the fight between the feds and the state. representative rooney will also share his stories of python hunting. you heard that right. this is me
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it's not all charlottesville. ahead, what they're hearing from voters. top of the hour on shepard smith reporting. we'll see you then. >> sandra: attorney general jeff sessions stoet speak in miami and praise the mayor's stance on sanctuary cities. a short time ago the mayor issued a public rebuke of president trump's comments on charlottesville. steve harrigan live in miami. steve? >> reporter: sandra, the attorney general is scheduled to start speaking at the port of miami in about 15 minutes time. he'll be speaking before a group of 100 law enforcement agents. so far there has been no sign of any major protest. we expect him to talk about sanctuary cities and the rise of violent crime in those sanctuary cities is also expected to praise miami dade county officials who have largely reversed the county's policy since 2013. now in miami dade county, if you are in a county jail, they are able to detain you for an extra
48 hours if your immigration status is suspect. they are able to do that to allow ice agents to check your immigration status. that has affected about 400 people so far. it's been largely a controversial move here in heavily democratic miami. lot of opponents say that it is an anti-immigrant move. the mayor of miami dade county has justified the measure, saying in the immediate term his main concern was losing several hundred thousand dollar in federal aid, aid for police equipment, police star cars, body cameras. his concern was money from the federal government in the short term. a volatile and tproefrl decision here. he's about to be praised by the attorney general in just a few minutes time. sandra, back to you. >> sandra: thank you. for more on this let's bring in francis rooney a member of the foreign affairs committee. congressman, thank for being here. >> thank for having me on. >> sandra: so that event with jeff sessions expected to start in just a short time.
he's heading down that way to offer praise to the city of miami for dropping that sanctuary policy, a trend that we're not seeing in other cities and states in this country as we see that spreading. >> i think they deserve praise. i'm proud of the government of the city of miami for realizing, as john adams said, that we are a nation of laws, not men, and we have to follow our laws and respect our laws and things like daca, and sanctuary cities are repugnant to that principle. >> sandra: i want to share with you what jeff sessions said in a press release about this. he said, quote, i know that miami dade will be an example of the good that comes from following the law. we have already seen that. the same independence day weekend when chicago suffered 100 shootings and 15 homicides. miami dade also had a historic number of shooting deaths. zero. he's making a very strong point
there, congressman. >> he really is. any nation, any people, can suffer institutional degradation and ultimately decline if they don't respect their principles and the institutions that are built around them. our country's still three years younger than the republic of venice was. we need to respect our laws and pay attention to what's made america great. rule of law. >> sandra: president trump has also weighed in. he tweeted this out also offering praise to the city and its mayor saying, miami dade mayor dropped sanctuary policy. right decision. strong. congressman, do you expect that we will see others follow suit? >> i sure hope so. i hope people will pause and realize that you don't get to be a nation of laws and accomplish the institutional stability and provide so much for your people if you just operate like a banana republic and don't pay attention to the laws of the land. in addition to being three years younger than the republic of venice, we're still 35 years younger than the huang dynasty
in china. we cannot say if we lose our focus we will not be the great country we are now. >> sandra: we know rom emanuel is standing strong for the city of chicago protecting their sanctuary status. for those cities who will not comply on these sanctuary cities, should they lose federal funding, congressman? >> they absolutely should. i'm so thankful to be able to vote for the no sanctuary for criminals act that we passed just before the break, along with kate's law, to make sure no home land security or doj money goes to sanctuary cities and people who are victimized by illegal aliens in sanctuary cities can sue the city for recompense. >> sandra: you are speaking about as a strong state by attorney general jeff sessions and the president. what do you expect to hear from the attorney general who has spoken out as we have noted very strongly on this matter. what do you expect to hear from him in a few moments?
>> as a life long lawyer and legal expert, he has strong standing to hit these issues of rule of law and institutional stability that the rule of law has given our country and to call for other cities to abandon this ridiculous sanctuary business and pay attention to the law of the land. >> sandra: something you're paying attention to, congressman, to change subject, just a little bit. we have a picture of you python hunting down in the everglades down in florida. as we know, this has been a growing problem down there. it's an invasive species. we got word that you helped catch a few of them. >> yeah. there are five west pythons alive to menace the wild life and animals in the everglades. these things are relentless aggressive predator that's risen to the top of the food chain in the everglades. they're killing off all the
birds. >> sandra: these are not small creatures. how long were those pythons? >> the one in the picture was 8 feet. he was our longest one. we all got a seven footer and a couple three, four. then one about two feet long. >> sandra: you don't have any hesitation about picking up a snake? >> not as long as i pick it up where the professional snake hundredor told me to do it. >> sandra: those guys are amazing. they are doing a lot of work in the everglades, an area we all want to protect in this country. it is an absolute beauty. thank you very much for joining us. >> sandra, thanks for having me on. >> sandra: we are just moments away, as we mentioned, the attorney general's speech. we will be monitoring any news out of that. americans facing hard time for trying to help isis. what authorities are learning about him and his possible accomplices. in the middle of the night, so he got home safe.
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then he declared his support for isis on social media. he pledged to behead any law enforce ment officers who trailed him. he sent money to an fbi agent. williams pleaded guilty to providing what's called material support to isis and as part of his agreement, williams will receive the statutory maximum of 20 years in prison when he's sentenced in december. this is for context a pretty stiff sentence and may reflect the fact that williams said he wanted to carry out an x-rays on behafr of isis. even after his arrest he told agents he still supported the terror group and believed that he was a participant in what he called a holy war. sandra? >> sandra: thank you. >> reporter: you're welcome. >> sandra: an incredible discovery south of cairo, where archaeologists found three tombs dating back 2,000 years.
that's between the 27th dynasty and the greco roman period. they appear to be part of a large cemetery for a significant sized city. it appears to contain remains of women, men and even a child. the coast guard coming to the aid of a person stranded off the coast of the u.k. why this daring rescue was so dangerous. and any moment now, we expect to hear from attorney general jeff session on the subject of sanctuary cities. we will have his remarks live as soon as that event gets under way.
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announcing lawsuits against the federal government's policies on the state of california now sue monday. awaiting attorney general jeff sessions in miami. meanwhile, a daring sea rescue off of southwest england. the u.k. coast guard releasing this video saturday. a person getting cut off by tide clinging to a rock for dear life. a member of the rescue crew had to be lowered from a helicopter. the crew had to save two more people that tried to help and were taken to the hospital with mild hypothermia. okay. we know you're out there. all you cheetos lovers. on the menu at this special restaurant, you see cheetos tacos, mac and cheese cheetos and for dessert, cheetos -- wait for it -- cheesecake.
pictures. afraid he will catch me picking my nose. >> can't believe that guy was president of the united states. because he is branded as a crook. it's important to remember the wrong approach that executive power that led nixon to those crimes. >> you want a level, don't you? good evening. this is the 37th time i have spoken to from you this office. so many decisions have been made that shape the history of our nation. need more? >> there was good in him. he had been a good vice-president. but he was fatally flawed and a fatally flawed president. >> nixon, he had been a hero to millions of americans. here is a guy who received more votes than anybody else in the history of this country. the richard nixon they supported through the years was not the richard nixon that they thought
they knew. >> every generation has to lose their virginity. it was just the day that my generation did. to think that we're the only generation that had that experience is probably the mistake that a lot of generations make. >> he is ready before the cameras now. president richard nixon, 37th president of the united states. >> throughout the long and difficult period of watergate, i felt it was my duty to persevere. >> watergate doesn't go away. it was so extraordinary. it was so hidden. >> we act like it can't happen again. it did a lot of stuff. there was a lot of passing laws and giving speeches. if you ask me do i think we learned anything from it? no. >> i have never been a quitter. to leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body.
in hollywood terms, woodward and bernstein were the good guys. their weapon was the written word. >> did he confirm it? >> i played bob woodward in the fi. carl bernstein was played by dustin hoffman. >> one of the things i observed with carl is that he smoked so incessantly. carl was always -- always had ashes on his tie and his shirt. i said, that's got to be in the movie. >> is there any place you don't smoke? >> 40 years later, the two investigative reporters are back in "the washington post" newsroom. i join them for a reunion with ben bradley. their former editor. the first time in decades we have all been together. >> hello, robert. >> it's texting intempting to
watergate could never happen it again. they know better. >> i look good. >> it's only 40 years ago. >> i wanted to dig deeper into their story and to what if any impact it had on our culture today. a photographer is here to document the three men. for bob woodward, watergate started the way most stories do, with a phone call from his editor. >> the moment i got the call about 9:00 a.m. on saturday morning, june 17th, no one flashed a message to me, this is going to be one of the most important days of your life. >> i was in the office that day. i saw all this commotion around the city desk on a saturday morning. went to find out what it was.
there was this moment in history that became known as watergate. ♪ >> woodward and bernstein, for those of us in the profession, i think we were quickly in awe of what they were doing. >> i became truly inspired by both their incredible investigative reporting and their storytelling. >> i remember thinking when first read the woodward and bernstein articles, where is this going, especially coming in the midst of the turmoil playing out in the streets around the country. >> president nixon's first term in office had been marched by loud and frequent and sometimes violent protests.
largely against the vietnam war. >> it really did seem like the world was unraveling. growing up in a suburban existence with parents who saw chicago in 1968 erupt into flames, saw people burning their draft cards, saw a sexual revoluti revolution, saw a drug revolution, saw woodstock come into their homes. >> when i joined the nixon white house, there were a lot of demonstrations against the war. probably was some of the most intense times i think our country had ever faced. often we were feeling like we were in a state of siege. you felt it physically. and we knew that we were going to have to protect the white house. there's a lot of discussion about using troops directly
facing the demonstrators, which i felt could lead to direct confrontation and conflicts. so it came to me, why don't we do what john wayne did? circle the white house with buses. not wagons but with buses, which is what we did. >> did you want to be on the side of jane fonda or john wayne? my parents chose john wayne. therefore, they were for nixon and nixon was on the side of law and order. ♪ >> nixon's law and order platform was very popular. in the coming election, he seemed a shoo-in for a second term. >> i proudly accept your nomination for president of the united states.
>> by the summer of 1962, nixon's campaign machine was in full force. his re-election committee would become entangled with a mysterious illegal break-in. >> five men were arrested early saturday while trying to install eavesdropping equipment at the democratic national committee. >> it was the sunday after the burglary. we were the only two who showed up in the office. >> i was in the office that day. i was writing a profile. i said, this is a better story than the one i'm working on. i think i would like to work on this. >> it turns out that one of the men has an office in the headquarters of the committee for the re-election of the president. >> james mccord, the lead burglar, had been in the cia in the security business for decades. was the head of security at the nixon campaign. wait a minute? what's going on here?
>> woodward and bernstein never imagined answering that question would lead them smack into the oval office. we were dating, wed to get excited about things like concert tickets or a new snowboard. matt: whoo! wh jen: but that all changed when we bought a house. matt: voilà! jen: matt started turning into his dad. matt: mm. that's some good mulch. ♪ i'm awake. but it was pretty nifty when jen showed me how easy it was to protect our home and auto with progressive. [ wrapper crinkling ] get this butterscotch out of here. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. there's quite a bit of work, 'cause this was all -- this was all stapled. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us.
but we can protect your home and auto we're not on an island anymore. [ roaring ] what could go wrong? you good? yeah, you? [ roaring ] [ screaming ] nope. rated pg-13. on august 1, 1972, i picked up woodward and bernstein's third article on watergate. it said one of the burglars had gotten money from the nixon campaign. what the reporters would soon discover was that nixon's
re-election committee was engaging in sabotage against the democrats. woodward and bernstein were beginning to pull back the curtains on a strange and shadowy world. i wanted to know how they were doing it. i got intrigued with making a film about woodward and bernstein because one was a jew, the other was a wasp. one was a radical liberal and the other was a republican. beyond that, the hard work that they did together to get at this story. so i gave woodward a call. he was chilly on the phone. i said, this is bob redford calling. he said, yeah. i said, i wanted to know if i could meet you and your partner. i have this idea i want to share with you. >> woodward came to me and said that redford had called. i put together who redford was. interested in talking to us or whatever. i said, we're busy. we gotta do this story.
>> for woodward and bernstein it wasn't only that it seemed fishy, there was something just as odd about the white house response. >> the press secretary called it a third rate burglary attempt. >> calling it a third rate burglary, that was the tip-off us that seemed to be nothing third rate about it except they got caught. >> they raised the stakes so high with this third rate burglary nonsense. it was apparent that something here was really rotten. >> nixon assigned his top lieutenants the task of managing the fallout from the break-in. among them, bob haldeman and john ehrlichman would welcome the guardians of the clandestine activities. watergate begins to monopolize more of their time. we know that because nixon had a secret tape recording system in the oval office.
i really very quickly become the desk officer at the white house on watergate. i'm the person who others below me report and then i in turn report up . >> they are deeply involved. it's a classic criminal conspiracy. >> as woodward and bernstein suspected, the first clue would be found at the republican committee to re-elect the president. its treasurer was hugh sloane. >> we raised $60 million, the most successful fund-raising to that point in history of any presidential campaign. >> some of the committee's practices were starting to make sloane uneasy. >> he was right out of republican central casting.
clean cut, seemed to always have his shirt and tie on. he was troubled, because he was the one who was giving out the money. >> i was fine with everything up to the point i was directed to give cash to specific individuals. >> sloane would soon learn that some of the campaign money raised by the re-election committee had found its way into the hands of the watergate burglars. >> the key was the money and finding these people who controlled the funds and figuring out what they did with the money. >> by now, woodward and bernstein weren't the only ones following the money. the fbi were on the trail and a grand jury had begun its own investigation. everyone wanted to talk to hugh sloane. >> the cash that financed the watergate break-in, five men had controls of the funds. >> they recommended to tell them
the story to print it. >> we're ask ugh ing you to be - >> say we wrote a story that said he controlled the fund. >> would we be wrong? >> established through conversations and other means that i would have acknowledged five people as having the authority to tell me to dispense funds. one of them was bob haldeman. >> i would have no problems if you run a story like that. >> you wouldn't? >> no. >> okay. >> if you are looking for a phrase that defined what the execution of watergate was, it was a haldeman operation. it was driven by nixon. but operationally, it was haldeman doing it. >> on october 25th, two weeks before the election, the front
page headline pointed the finger at the number one man in the president's inner circle, haldeman. sloane had testified that haldeman controlled the secret fund. but they were wrong. >> i had never been asked about bob haldeman. >> sloane had not named haldeman in his testimony. white house pounced. >> i don't respect the type of journalism, the shabby journalism being practiced by "the washington post." i use the term shoddy journalism, shabby journalism. i used the term character assassination. >> this was their opportunity to discredit the post, woodward and bernstein and bury the story. >> they came after us. the press secretary. we knew that we were the
targets. >> all i know is that the story that ran this morning is incorrect. >> we made a mistake. [ bleep ] up. we had an intellectual understanding of the facts of the story and haldeman's role in watergate. but what was in "the washington post" was untrue. we should not have allowed that to happen. >> i was angry at myself and carl and how we got it wrong. we thought, maybe we are going to have to resign. maybe we should resign. we were kind of at the end of our rope. >> woodward and bernstein, the path to the truth had just gotten longer and harder. over the last 24 hours, you finished preparing him for college. in 24 hours, you'll send him off thinking you've done everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours.
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>> i've never known a national election when i would be able to go to bed earlier than tonight. >> repeat after me. i richard nixon do solemnly swear. >> i richard nixon do sal manically swear. >> that i will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states. >> looking back at the early watergate reports, it's hard to believe that nixon was completely unscathed. imagine a president getting away with that unfolding scandal in today's political environment. woodward and bernstein went back to their desks, put their heads down and continued to grind away at the story. >> i knew i was going to be judged, the paper was going to be judged on this story. therefore, you know, i think you could get away with not being 100% accurate on day one, but
you had to be as close as you could get and you had to be closer the next day and closer the day after that. >> they knew that haldeman was controlling the secret fund. the question was, who was controlling haldeman? i was amazed by woodward and bernstein's resolve. there's nothing glamorous about what they were doing. i thought it was important to portray the hard work and the feelings about the film from a studio standpoint was non-commercial. phones, typewriters, washington. bob did something which was brilliant. he said, these guys, even though they are from separate, diverse backgrounds, think of them as one. particularly when they're interviewing people. he said, let's learn not only our own lines but let's memorize the other guy's lines.
>> sloane. sloane was the treasurer of the committee -- >> his wife did what? >> she's pregnant. she made sloane quit. >> make a note of it. what do we got? where is that -- >> each of us would come in at any time. we would take one half of a sentence. finish it. >> she said it. right here. she said at the time of the break-in there was so much money floating around that i know -- >> i thought it was one of the most exciting and most successful things that we did in that film. >> like woodward and bernstein, dustin and i couldn't have been more opposite. one of the things that i remember you telling me was that you had trouble even you at that time had trouble getting a studio to say yes, because they all said we know the ending. why should we do all -- >> why would we do this when we know the outcome.
it's about the two guys. and what they did that nobody knew about. >> you said it was a detective story. >> the main thing -- i think you felt the same way. the alchemy of the two guys considering their differences. one of the tough story points was how do you betray someone so twisted on the inside and straight-laced on the outside? >> richard nixon is now the guy who when you see photos of him, even at his prime, you cannot believe he was ever president of the united states. >> he seemed to me to be the kid in the schoolyard whom all the other kids picked on. i identified with that. >> who was nixon? nixon. nixon was a party guy, an animal. to me, nixon was a character
couturcan a tur. i had my nixon down. ten years owed walking around the house. i am not a crook. i have a more complex view of the man and his presidency. >> president nixon created a new federal department, the environmental protection agency. >> the question of who is richard nixon is almost imponderable. i look at him as one of really one of the great minds that has ever really been in the presidency. he had achieved some extraordinary breakthroughs. his opening to china, soviet union. >> i think nixon would by today's standards be considered maybe a conservative democrat, maybe at some levels a radical leftist. >> hello. >> here is one of the men around the president we don't hear much
about, alex butterfield. deputy assistant. >> my first meeting with the president, my god. i can't tell it without acting. >> today, butterfield and the president -- >> nixon came out from behind his desk and looked tentative. he had no idea what to do. he began to gesture. no words came out. it's just this deep gutter all -- this is the president. i couldn't believe it. >> butterfield would play a crucial role in the investigation. he had knowledge of the secret taping system in the oval office. >> haldeman came to me. he said, the president wants a tape recording system. the secret service has a technical security division, electronics and communications guys. that's who i went to. the first thing, he indicated --
he intimated that they had done this before. he didn't say we did it for johnson, we did it for this president or that. he also indicated these things usually don't work out very well. >> he was a paparanoid man. he gave them a lot to get him with. >> he wasn't glamorous. he wasn't social. he was kind of awkward and very smart. but it's hard to get past the tapes and what you hear on the tapes and the rambling and the paranoia and just the insanity.
>> i really didn't know richard nixon when i went into the white house. i had a public image of him. as he gets more comfortable with me, i start to see a rather dark side of this man. i realize very quickly, he is a man who harbored tremendous animosity towards his enemies, literally. he doesn't forgive. he doesn't forget. he wants to get even. >> the real nixon is on those tapes. it is a road map of his mind. it is a road map of his presidency. >> it would lead to an underground parking garage and their next big break. woodward met with a government official who had an understanding what was going on
in the white house. he would become known as deep throat. >> just follow the money.
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behind the golf clubs. get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. president trump is suggesting that due process should be suspended for those who come into the country you will legally. in a tweet the president said, we must immediately with no judges or court cases bring them back from where they came from. this comes after trump backed away from his policy of separating families. president erdogan of turkey is claiming victory. the leeading opposition party i questioning the results. deep throat would become the
most memorable figure in the watergate scandal. when woodward and bernstein's book came out, guessing deep throat's identity turned into a cottage industry. >> i have to do this my way. you tell me what you know and i will confirm. i will keep you in the right direction if i can. but that's all. just follow the money. >> deep throat was a blessing. i didn't want to mess with. >> my day, it was known as the double cross. our present context, it means infiltration of the democrats. >> i just felt it was a wonderful piece of drama. >> i want to talk about watergate. >> sometimes he would just -- he was not very forthcoming. a couple of key times he was. >> clear from the book and i hope from the movie that it's somebody who was conscience
stricken, somebody who crossed lines that somebody in that sort of responsible position rarely crosses and crossed for the best of reasons. >> he gave us a solidity in what others were telling us that might have sounded unbelievable given how crazy some of it was. >> i didn't know what deep throat looked like. didn't know if it was a man or woman. >> the mystique. it's embarrassing. it's deep throat. named after a porn movie. the nickname deep throat was dirty from the beginning. yet, because it was so important to the story, everyone talks about deep throat this and deep throat that in this casual way. >> the term deep throat, everybody was on deep background, meaning you could use it but not with any kind of attribution at all that would indicate where it came from. >> i wouldn't quote you even as an anonymous source. you would be on deep background.
>> the fascination with that one source i think was driven in part by the anonymity, that we knew what happened in the administration, we knew through all the president's men how woodward and bernstein ferreted out the information. >> no deep throat, no movie. there's something so incredibly bondish about it that without that, i'm not sure you get the hollywood of the story. he to me was probably a crucial element in follow the money. >> deep throat was woodward's contact. it took him a while to let bernstein in on the secret. >> he said i have something that works at the justice department who is in a very advantageous position. he told me a bit about him. didn't tell me exactly who he
was or where he worked. >> he didn't want to talk on the phone. he knew about what was going on with wiretaps and how they would go after journalists. he said, we have to meet. it struck me at the time as kind of odd. but again, i was just beginning this process of washington reporting. it sounded reasonable to me. let's meet at 2:00 a.m. in this underground garage. >> in this garage under the cover of night, deep throat began to allude to a far-reaching conspiracy deep in the heart of the white house. >> it involves the entire u.s. intelligence community. fbi, cia, justice. it's incredible. >> deep throat was a great help in that he confirmed information that we had obtained elsewhere for the most part. it gave us a better idea of how big the conspiracy was. >> deep throat was out there.
and we began to hear about it from the ground up that bob had this special source. >> when will the rest of the world know who is deep throat? >> when that source passes away or releases us from our agreement and pledge of confidentiality. >> who is deep throat? >> we said deep throat is a man. >> you can rule out some suspects like diane sawyer. woodward says deep throat was a man. >> you build a strong case for the identity of alexander hague. >> do you have any idea what deep throat was? >> deep throat is a collection of people. >> how did the secret of deep throat last for so long? the answer is, neither of us told our exwives. >> during our filming, woodward mentioned the portrayal was close to the real thing. when i asked him who the man was, he just smiled. >> other guesses over the years, john sears, mark felt.
>> i never leaked any information. i didn't give anybody any documents. i'm getting fed up with the whole thing. >> mark felt caught some people's attention. he was the number two man in the fbi. he looked the part. >> no, no, i'm not deep throat. the only thing i can say is that i wouldn't be ashamed to be. >> three decades later, bob woodward went to visit mark felt. the elderly man was living with his daughter on a quiet street in the suburbs of san francisco. coincidentally named redford place. >> i was talking to a friend of mine. we started talking about watergate and he asked me about my father. i started telling him about the reporters calling. i said, as a matter of fact, one reporter, i think he said his name was bob woodward from the "washington post," came to the house to try and get an interview with dad and try to find out if dad is deep throat.
my friend said, joan, bob woodward knows who deep throat is. that's when i started thinking, oh, my gosh, maybe dad could be deep throat. but dad denied it. he said that he wasn't deep throat. i said, dad, you got to tell me the truth. please tell me the truth. i need to know. tell me. so he did. he looked me in the eyes and said, all right, if that's the way it's going to be, he said, all right, i am, i was that person. >> i got a call from "vanity fair" and told in the next few hours they were going to break a story saying that felt was deep throat and would i confirm it. >> carl came down to washington. we talked about this.
should we reveal it? should we confirm it? what's the obligation now? then ben bradley stepped in and said, it's out. it's over. you need to confirm it. so we did. >> felt was the number two man at the fbi when he says he became the source who helped reveal watergate that brought down richard nixon. >> my dad, i know him, i know him so well. he's a great man. he is so kind. he is so attentive to other people. and loving. we're so proud of him, not only for his role in history but for that, the character he has, the person that he is. >> clearly, there was an element of the conflicted man, the divided man. but then when i saw him on the doorstep, the video of mark felt in his pajamas with a smile on his face, the smile that i had never seen him smile. he was not a happy person in all the years i dealt with him. >> turns out it had been
liberating for us, for the truth, for felt, because now there was an awful lot of speculation in those 30 years, including by many of our peers and colleagues that we made this up. >> this was an element of clarity and closure, answering a question that had persisted for a long time. >> deep throat begins to guide woodward and bernstein through an elaborate maze of corporate activities. they begin to connect watergate to more of the president's men. by the beginning of 1973, congress could no longer ignore the scandal. their investigation would boil down to one simple question. >> what did the president know and when did he know it? matt: whoo! whoo! jen: but that all changed when we bought a house. matt: voilà! jen: matt started turning into his dad. matt: mm. that's some good mulch. ♪
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the senate today voted 77-0 to establish a select committee to investigate the watergate bugging case. the by -- >> barely eight months after woodward and bernstein published their first article, the senate created a committee to investigate the watergate scandal. the story started with a reporters nosing around a suspicious break in. it has grown into a full-fledged examination of the nixon white house. >> i know we are obstructing justice. i told haldeman that. i told ehrlichman that. they didn't want to hear that. one point ehrlichman said, john, there's something putrid in your drinking water out there in old town where you live. i said, no, john, i'm just a realist. we got problems. >> on march 21st, john dean walked into the oval office and
gave nixon a blunt assessment of the damage that watergate was doing to his presidency. >> he had had his feet on the desk when was looking around his shoes at me. >> i have the impression you don't everything i know and it makes it very difficult for you to make judgments that only you can make. >> after that remark his feet were solidly on the floor. he had slid his chair up and i had his full attention. i knew at that point he knew something but i didn't know how much. >> there is no doubt about the seriousness of the problem we got. >> i'm warning him he's got problems. this was not good news i was about to share that there is a cancer on his presidency. >> we have a cancer within -- close to the presidency that's growing. it's growing daily. >> he kind of just absorbs that for a minute and thinks about it.
as the conversation goes on, i say, mr. president, you know, i don't know where this will end. it's just going to keep going up. >> the senate investigation was closing in on the president. to distance himself from the cover up, nixon needed scapegoats. >> one of the most difficult decisions of my presidency, i accepted the resignations of two of my closest associates at the white house. bob haldeman and john ehrlichman. two of the finest public servants it has been my privilege to know. >> when he gets rid of them he is also planning his defense. >> the watergate scandal broke wide open today. the two closest men to the president have resigned. >> he thinks this will protect him, and he will claim he had known nothing about a cover up until i told him on march 21st. he is sorting all this out until
the end of the month when he decides he's just got to let everybody go. and then, of course, he fires me. >> on may 17th the senate held its first public hearing. one by one, the president's men were summoned to the senate chamber. under cross-examination each was asked, had the president of the united states broken the law? >> what did the president know and when did he know it? >> i don't think there has ever been a moment in american nonfiction television history that is as riveting as the watergate hearings were. >> i did not grow up with the memory of having seen it, obviously. but it was this omnipresent thing in the way that my mom talked about my young childhood. she was a young mother, home with a baby on the hip and what she did for my infancy was feed me and watch watergate. >> i was sitting in a dressing
room making a film "the great gatsby" and you would watch the hearings to keep yourself from going mad. the hearings were so interesting, you couldn't stop. what was interesting is the drama and the tension and the certain area of mystery. what's going to happen? >> do i understand you are testifying the committee to re-elect the president and those associated with him -- >> the watergate hearings were an absolute unifying television experience for the entire country. >> this is a special report -- >> i can remember watching it and thinking, man, they're interrupting soap operas, wow. you just figure that this must be something enormously fundamental to our democracy. >> most of us thought the most dramatic testimony would come from haldeman and ehrlichman, but in the end it would be john dean that transfixed the country.
>> haldeman and ehrlichman and the president knew we did have an option. we could at that point drag the wagons around of a giant lie that would protect everybody who was willing to lie. who was willing to lie? haldeman, ehrlichman. >> the point is i didn't run around trying to bribe anybody or shred documents. we preserved the documents. >> the president, ehrlichman and i made no attempt to take over the watergate case. the view of all three of us through the whole period was that the truth must be told and quickly although we did not know what the truth was. >> so when i testified -- >> council will call the first witness. mr. john w. dean iii. >> -- i knew clearly, was i in or out, was the question? and i decided i could not play that game. i've made mistakes. we'd gotten ourselves in a deep problem and further lying and living that lie, even if i can get away with it, isn't something i'm comfortable with.
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do you swear that the evidence that you shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? >> i do, so help me god. >> like most americans i, too, was riveted by john dean's testimony. >> your name is john w. dean iii? >> that is correct. >> i remember being struck by how methodically he presented nixon's pattern of deception. >> when the president called me and we had a rather lovely discussion i told him at the conclusion of the conversation that evening that i wanted to talk with him as soon as possible about the watergate matter because i did not think he fully realized all the facts and the imp cage of those facts for the people at the white house and as well as himself. >> you had the president's counsel. people forget he was the president's lawyer. you can't have anything worse
happen to you than your own lawyer turning against you. >> i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency. and if the cancer was not removed, the president, himself, would be killed by it. i also told him that it was important that this cancer be removed immediately because it was growing more deadly every day. >> john dean's testimony was on for four days. it was mesmerizing. people were missing airplanes. people were standing around furniture stores that sold tv sets watching in the plate-glass windows, the television. >> i told him the cash that had been at the white house had been funneled back to the re-election committee for the purpose of paying the seven individuals to remain silent. >> and dean wasn't pulling any punches. >> a recipient of wiretap information and haldeman also. received some information. >> i said to myself wow everything john dean is saying to that committee, i hope they know, it is true.
>> the counsel was retained at that time. >> what date was that? >> that was on the 25th, as i recall. >> we absolutely believed what he was saying and the more evidence we got the more it confirmed what he was saying. >> meeting of march 21. as i have indicated, my purpose in requesting this meeting, particularly with the president, was that i felt it was necessary that i give him a full report of all the facts that i knew and explained to him what i believed to be the implications of those facts. >> we had white house logs of meetings. so when he said i met with the president on march 21st, we could look at the log and say, well, he certainly did. >> how do you expect us to resolve the truth in this matter when you state one story and you testified here and made yourself subject to cross-examination and
the president states another story and he does not appear before this committee? can you give us any information as to how we might resolve this? >> mr. chairman, i think this. i strongly believe that the truth always emerges. i don't know if it will be during these hearings. i don't know if it will be through the processes of history, but the truth will out some day. >> it's very hard to think about the president not being believed and john dean being believed. so if it came down to he said/he said, the president was going to win. >> president nixon and his counsel, john dean, now appear to be at odds over the watergate scandal. >> one nixon aide knew how to prove who was lying, but no one had asked him. >> while in the barbershop i'm watching the hearings, as was everyone, every place. this is the morning of monday
the 16th of july. i was really quite relaxed until i got that phone call. we're going to want you to come up here and testify. a senator wants you to testify at 2:00. i said, you can just tell him i'm not coming. so on the tube i see this guy go in behind the senators and whisper in urban's ear. and it's those big bushy eyebrows of his went, whoop. you can see them going up and down. and he wasn't pleased. you could tell that. he tells this young man something and the guy leaves. predictably right away the phone rings. and he said i just told the senator what you said and he said if you are not in his office at 1:00 he will have federal marshals pick you up on the street. that's exactly what he said. >> carl stern is outside the senate caucus room and maybe can tell us more about mr.
butterfield and what he is expected to tell the committee. carl? >> there was a lot of speculation. obviously, something was cooking as far as what he was going to say because we were deviating from the schedule. >> we believe his testimony will have to do with white house procedures. >> that room was chock full of people. boyfriends with girls standing on their shoulders, people in the window ledges up there. cameras all over the place. >> i'd like to change the usual routine of questioning and ask minority counsel to begin the questioning of mr. butterfield. >> thank you. >> the old caucus room was packed full of famous names and celebrities and whatnot, kind of a circus atmosphere, frankly. >> mr. butterfield, i understand you previously employed by the white house? is that correct? >> that's correct. >> during what period of time were you employed by the white house? >> i would like to preface my
remarks, if i may. >> i'm sorry. go right ahead. >> although i do not have a statement as such i would simply like to remind the committee membership that whereas i appear voluntarily this afternoon, i appear with only some three hours' notice. >> i wanted them to know i was enjoying a haircut just at 11:00 today. >> mr. butterfield, are you aware of installation of listening devices in the oval office of the president? >> i tried to think is that direct? yeah, that's direct. that's a very direct question. i'm not trying to sound dramatic here, but i knew then that the jig was up. >> i was aware of listening devices. yes, sir. >> i was under the assumption that this tape recording system was still deep, dark secret over
at the white house. that secret was well kept. when you stop and think, rosemary woods, his secretary, never knew about the tapes. henry kissinger, as close as henry was, never knew about the tapes. john ehrlichman never knew about the tapes. >> two people told me about it before it became public. i called bradley at home at 9:00 on saturday night i believe and said, nixon taped himself. what should we do? ben said, i wouldn't bust one on it. it's kind of a b-plus story. i thought, okay. the boss says b-plus. i won't work on it. i took sunday off and monday they called butterfield. i remember ben came by and knocked on my desk and said, okay, it's better than a b-plus. >> from that point on, of course, it's a fight for the tapes because they answer the questions. am i telling the truth? is the president telling the truth? what else happened? the prosecutors immediately subpoena the tapes. the senate subpoenas them. so nixon is early advised to destroy the tapes.
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telephone. >> nixon not only refused but on a saturday night in october 1973 he also ordered his attorney general to fire the special prosecutor. the attorney general was appalled. he said no and resigned. then the president told one of his assistants to call the deputy attorney general. >> when i picked the phone up it was al haig. he said he wanted me to fire cox and i said i'm not going to do it. >> ruckleshouse refused in a moment of constitution of drama to obey a presidential order to fire the special watergate prosecutor. >> first the attorney general to his credit to say i'm not going to do that and then resign and then the next person who is the deputy attorney general, bill ruckleshouse, one of the great people in the nixon administration, one of the most ethical men i have ever known, he, too, was not willing to do it. >> so the deputy attorney general, ruckleshouse, also resigned. >> there will be an announcement out of the white house later on. >> there will be?
does it have to do with the resignation of the attorney general? >> it might. you will have to get it from them. >> al haig said your commander in chief has ordered you to do this. i don't know what that added to the discussion. he said, well, who else is around? i said bob bork is here. he was the number three guy in the department. bork was the last one that was really eligible to do it. >> the commander in chief found someone willing to carry out his orders. bork fired cox. >> and i have asked all the personnel in the department to stay and help keep the department from going in this extraordinarily difficult time. >> and so ended what would become known as the saturday night massacre. >> one white house source said the president's motive was to remove the possibility of a constitutional confrontation as quickly as possible. >> richard nixon violated the law, he compromised the office and he violated the compact that we thought we had with him. >> before he did all of this he must have considered the
probable reaction in congress including the possibility of impeachment. >> there with some of us who felt that the imperial presidency was getting out of hand. the saturday night massacre was a signal to the american people that a president was putting himself above the rule of law and they demanded action. >> and the public outcry to the saturday night massacre was so significant. >> just the insanity of the saturday night massacre like who does that? how could you think you could get away with that? it's just not stable. >> people in high office tend to want to have power to themselves and they tend to want to keep it. power still tends to corrupt. >> presidents by the nature of the job are just unlikely to ever shed any of the executive power that their predecessors have accrued to the office. every president since jimmy
carter has expanded the powers of the presidency. and when president obama ran for office, he had as part of his pitch as a candidate, what was wrong with the expanded executive power that was asserted by the george w. bush administration, especially on national security issues, things like torture and secret prisons and all of that stuff after 9/11. he hasn't given any of that power back now that he is president. >> tonight i would like to give my answer to those who have suggested that i resign. i have no intention whatever of walking away from the job i was elected to do. >> after four months of legal squabbling the presidential tape recordings were finallydelivered today to the chief judge. we won't hear them, however, until all the discrepancies have been accounted for and today that situation grew worse, not better. >> much worse. nixon had handed over the tapes
but there was a catch. >> i was in the white house. things were fairly quiet. and i got a call to go to ron ziegler's office. i go up to ron's office thinking it's something routine and ziegler is clearing his throat a lot and is kind of rattling his coffee cup and that is when we learned about the gap in the tapes. we had been told just about three days earlier that the worst is behind us and suddenly there was an 18 1/2 minute gap in the tapes and all hell broke loose again. >> the conversation in question took place three days after the watergate burglars were caught and the watergate prosecutor thought it was important. >> we know the 18 1/2 minute gap was a conversation about watergate because it was with haldeman and the president and haldeman was a meticulous note taker and he took notes. >> the president's personal secretary, rosemary woods, was recalled to explain how she accidentally erased 18 minutes of a conversation with the president three days after the
watergate break-in. >> it didn't happen by accident would have been our first suspicion. i was the lawyer who questioned rosemary woods about the 18 1/2 minute gap. >> are you discussing testimony tomorrow? or an actual reenactment of bringing in her desk? >> i don't want to comment on it. >> i'm called the mini skirted bitch. that was my name. pictures of me were always head to toe. my male colleagues are shoulder up. that's just how it was. rosemary woods represents really the majority of women at that time. you could be a nurse. you could be a teacher. you could be a secretary, or you could be a housewife. those were your choices. i was a very early professional and there we were head to head combat basically. >> ms. woods said it was a mistake. a record button hit accidentally while she took a phone call. >> she described that she pushed the wrong button. instead of pushing stop, she had pushed record. she also had to keep her foot on the pedal.
>> mrs. woods used the machine to show how it happened. >> when i asked her to demonstrate, she pushed the button, kept her foot on and she supposedly reached back about six feet to get the telephone. her foot came off the pedal just with the mere movement. there was just no way it was believable. >> the white house intention that the talk between the president and haldeman was accidently erased would give more ammunition to the president's critics. >> to hear something that was so obviously untrue changed a lot of the american public's view of the whole situation. >> rosemary woods would stand by her story. bob woodward would later write the 18 1/2 minute gap became a symbol for nixon's entire watergate problem. the truth had been deleted. the truth was missing. -and we welcome back gary, who's already won three cars, two motorcycles, a boat, and an r.v. i would not want to pay that insurance bill.
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sees carl reworking his story. >> how's it going? what are you doing? >> polishing a little. >> what's wrong with it? >> nothing, it's good. >> what are you doing with it? >> i'm just helping. it's a little fuzzy. >> may i have it? >> i don't think you're saying what you mean. >> i know exactly what i mean. >> not here. i can't tell. >> may i have it? >> it's only conclusions. >> yes. i'm not looking for a fight. >> i'm not looking for a fight either. >> just aware of the fact you've only been here nine months. >> now, having known both of them, that was so true and that's what goes on in newsrooms. >> if you are going to do it, do it right. here's my notes. if you're going to hype it, hype it with the facts. i don't mind what you did. i mind the way you did it. >> the thing about bernstein that i think you captured so well was his assuredness about how right he was, at the same time, totally intuitive and
instinctive, where he had to push woodward. and how you have to rewrite me because you're a better writer. and you do it without even thinking how bruised it's going to be. >> woodward was didactic. if that's the right word. he would go a, b, c, d in his investigative work. and bernstein would go a, b, h. >> we had the luxury of a fat, dynamic institution in the "washington post," it was right at its peak. >> it's always been some chicannery in american politics, you're always going to have some underhanded dealings. nothing comparable to this. >> ended up that woodward and bernstein ushered in a new era of journalism that opened up the white house in a way that would have made lbj and jfk and fdr very uncomfortable. >> marcus, everyone asks the question, could the "post" do a story like watergate or do watergate now? what is your -- >> you know, in today's world that story would catch fire much faster. the minute the break-in
occurred, you know, you would tweet it. both sides would seize on it. it's an election campaign. it would be -- they would be using it immediately as fodder for their -- both sides in the battle. everybody would chase it. there would be bloggers. as a result it would be much harder to do what you did probably because there would be such -- they would clamp down much faster. >> it's a great question how watergate might unfold in the current news environment. >> you could look at the sort of glass half full argument and say with all of these people on twitter and all of these reporters the 24-hour news cycle, if a big story began to emerge, it would never be two lonely guys pursuing it forever because the entire pack of the cyberuniverse would bay like wolves after the white house until it happened. >> they used to say a reporter
was only as good as their phone numbers. we can hunt and stalk sources so many different ways. the tool box that i have available to me as a reporter, digital voice recording, e-mail, social media. we can truth tell them in realtime. when they say something we can be googling what they are saying. playing back to them. we have access to all known thought one click away. ability to surround and ferret out a source in a way that woodward and bernstein only dreamed of. >> the internet is a tool just like a typewriter is a tool, a telephone is a tool. at the end of the day journalism requires incredibly dogged persistence on the part of journalists who are seeking the truth. >> we worked over here. i'm here. >> you're here. and i'm here. >> yeah. >> and it was the noise of typewriters and it was the smoke of people who smoked. >> people smoking.
>> 38 years ago. >> jesus. >> why did things have to change? >> every day bob and i would go have a cup of coffee together in the morning in a vending machine room off the newsroom. >> it sure is quiet in here. >> and on this particular day, not that long after the break-in, i put a dime in the coffee machine, which is what it cost then. and i literally felt this chill go down my neck. i mean literally, made my hair stick up, i think. i turned to woodward and i said, oh, my god, this president is going to be impeached. woodward looked at me and said, oh, my god, you're right. it's just a burst pipe, i could fix it. (laugh) no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up just beacuase of a claim. i totally could've... (wife) nope! switching to allstate is worth it.
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i would like to add a personal word with regard to an issue that has been of great concern to all americans over the past year. i refer, of course, to the investigations of the so-called watergate affair. i believe the time has come to bring that investigation and the other investigations of this matter to an end. one year of watergate is enough. >> but as hard as nixon tried, watergate would not go away. >> the meeting will come to order. resolve that the committee on the judiciary is authorized and directed to investigate fully and completely whether sufficient grounds exist to impeach richard m. nixon, president of the united states of america. >> it took the american people
to force congress into action. this was not like what happened with president clinton where a special prosecutor said you should do an impeachment. there were those of us in congress who wanted to take action, but the powers that be refused. it was only when the american people broke down the wall of that resistance and said you have to do what you can do under the constitution to rein in the imperial president. >> the american people were losing patience. and the congressional committee was furious. they knew they had only scratched the surface. there were thousands of hours of recordings. but nixon was refusing to release any of them. >> president nixon today defied subpoenas demanding that he produce tapes and papers in his possession and the country moved closer to a clash between the white house and the congress and the courts which will be unprecedented in american history. >> it became clear he wasn't going to produce them voluntarily. there's a reason why he's drawing the line. he's taking all this flak, there must be some damaging things on
there. i was concerned -- we were concerned that he might dispose of the tapes. that in and of itself could be a criminal offense. burning the tapes, destroying the tapes. >> nixon never thought the tapes that he was making secretly would ever surface publically. they would always be for private use. >> it was never designed that they would come out so there is kind of a spontaneity and free flow of people talking about their authentic conclusions. and it's horrifying. >> mr. president? >> mr. president, you have made it perfectly clear you don't intend to release the tapes. >> perfectly clear? >> perfectly clear. >> it would be up to the supreme court to make the decision. on july 24, 1974, the court issued its ruling. >> good morning. the supreme court has just ruled on the tapes controversy. and how is that ruling? >> it is a unanimous decision,
8-0, ordering the president of the united states to turn over the tapes. >> the court voted unanimously, unanimously to require the tapes to be released. some of those members of the court had been appointed by richard nixon himself. so you had the court system acting in a nonpartisan way, in a credible way, regardless of politics. >> imagine that in the politicized supreme court that we've had in our recent history. >> while nixon tried to put on the pretend act that operations were going on as normal, they weren't. they were disintegrating every day. >> three days after the supreme court ruling the house of representatives took the step most dreaded by the president. impeachment. nixon's fate now rested in the hands of the committee.
>> today i am an inquisitor and hyperbole would not be fictional and would not overstate the solemnness that i feel right now. my faith in the constitution is whole. it is complete. it is total. and i am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the constitution. >> aye. >> mr. conyers? >> aye. >> some republicans who voted for the impeachment, some democrats who voted for the impeachment, they were putting their political lives on the line. all of us were putting our reputations on the line. >> aye. >> we voted on the impeachment. it was one of the most sober and solemn moments in my life and i think in the life of everybody on that committee. everybody understood the stakes for the country.
that's what this was all about. and it was above party. it was what was good for america and what our democracy required. >> aye. >> it was the republicans that ultimately provided a real measure of putting country ahead of party. >> nixon held his ground. he insisted he knew nothing of the cover up, but among the thousands of hours of tapes one conversation recorded shortly after the break-in would destroy what was left of his credibility and his presidency. >> on that investigation the democratic party campaign thing, we're back in the problem area because the fbi is not under control and they have their investigation is now leading into some productive areas. >> what finally catches him is
when the tapes are released, the smoking gun tape puts the lie to the statement that he had no advanced knowledge. >> on the tape you hear nixon telling haldeman to direct the cia to stop an fbi investigation. >> without going into detail, don't lie to them to that extent. but you could say it's comedy of errors. but say that they should call the fbi and don't go into further into this case. >> those words clearly led to an obstruction of justice. >> and i was always amazed at the president's nonchalance. he didn't seem to care. i wanted to say to him, my god, man, do you know what you just said? do you know those tapes are rolling? >> after the smoking gun tape came out the president lost all support, republican, as well as democrat. republicans went to him and said you have to resign.
we cannot support you anymore. >> it was republicans finally who made sure that nixon had to leave office. barry goldwater, marching down to the white house. >> we sat there in the oval room and the president acted like he just played golf and just had a hole in one. you would never think this guy's tail was in a crack. >> nixon said how many votes if i'm impeached in the house? how many votes in the senate? about 20. and goldwater said -- >> very few and not mine. >> the 37th president of the united states was facing the ultimate disgrace. for a man who craved power the question was, would nixon continue to fight? everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours.
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so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. i'm dara brown. congress is expected to vote on a compromise republican bill on immigration which includes a
gradual path to citizenship for daca recipient and $25 billion for a wall. the president tweeted last week they should forget legislation and focus on midterms. stormy daniels will meet in new york city with attorneys. now back to "all the president's men revisited." i don't remember exactly where i was or what i was doing the night nixon resigned, but i remember the feeling. relief. >> okay. sir? >> you are better looking than i am. why don't you stay here? blonds, they say, photograph better than brunettes.
>> we are standing by now for president richard milhous nixon, 37th president of the united states. >> have you got an extra camera in case the lights go out? where did we get it from? is that nbc? get these lights properly? my eyes always -- you find when you get past 60 -- that's enough. thanks. >> in just a moment now the president of the united states will begin his speech, perhaps his last speech from the white house. >> good evening. >> we watched it sitting on the floor eating bologna sandwiches and having a sense of unreality, quite frankly. >> from the discussions i have had with congressional and other leaders i have concluded that because of the watergate matter i might not have the support of the congress that i would consider necessary to back the very difficult decisions and carry out the duties of this office in the way the interest
of the nation would require. >> i was just awe struck at the whole thing. no gloating. very little sense of self. it was really about the magnificence of what had occurred in terms of the right thing. >> therefore, i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. vice president ford will be sworn in as president at that hour in this office. >> our first reaction really was okay, he's not president anymore. he's just a citizen. now we can indict him. honestly, that is what we thought. >> the morning he resigned i remember i walked down the street and bought a bottle of scotch. >> earlier today the east room of the white house was the scene of an emotional meeting between the president, his cabinet and the aides who have stayed with him during all of these years of
mr. nixon's tenure in the white house. >> you have this president who is bitterly resentful of what had happened to him in his political career overlaid with a shakespearean level of paranoia. he was willing to engage in extraordinary acts to preserve his power. >> all presidents are human beings. i assume they will have faults and flaws. i assume they will make mistakes. i assume that once they are caught in their mistakes because of who they are and the kind of people they are, they will try to cover up those mistakes. >> i was in the east room of the white house when he made that very bittersweet, very poignant, very maudlin speech with his family gathered around him. >> i look around here and i see so many in this staff that, you know, i should have been by your offices and shaking hands and would have loved to have talked to you and found out how to run
the world. everybody wants to tell the president what to do. and boy, he needs to be told many times. but i just haven't had the time. >> he is not looking into the camera. he's kind of staring off and going into this stream of consciousness about his mother, who was a saint. >> i guess all of you would say this about your mother. my mother was a saint. >> that's the most honest speech i have ever heard any politician give. and i'm standing there, much, much thinner, younger version of myself, crying. >> we think that when we lose an election, we think when we suffer a defeat, that all has ended. >> it's really sad, really sad.
i don't think any president has been more wrongly persecuted than nixon, ever. i just -- i think he was a saint. >> always remember others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win, unless you hate them. and then you destroy yourself. >> ultimately, what comes through on the tapes and what comes through in nixon's actions is his hate, his vengeful hate. and in that last farewell he gives that self-revealing line that hate will destroy you. >> that this piston of hate, this all-encompassing desire to get the opposition to wiretap, to spy, to destroy, to sabotage,
the ugliness of warfare was brought to american politics by richard nixon and the day he resigned he kind of seemed to get it. seemed to say, yeah, i destroyed myself. >> there were no tanks in the street. there were no armed men around the white house. we had this exceptionally peaceful transition of power in a very traumatic time in our lives. the presidency was secured by the decency of gerald ford and by the extraordinary strength of the constitutional law that defines what the presidency is. >> there were this relief that somehow the system had worked.
and then in the aftermath, a lot of reforms that were put in place. the media changed. investigative journalism had been an incidental situation pre-watergate. post-watergate it almost becomes a standard. presidents before watergate had been really by most reporters, been given a presumption of innocence. in the aftermath, they're almost presumed guilty. it really dramatically changes the relationship of the news media with the president. >> the system had worked, including the role of the press but really, the idea that the system had worked in this amazing way, that a criminal president had been forced to leave office, that the principle that nobody in this country is above the law, including the president of the united states.
>> for nixon and the nation, one question remained unanswered. would the president now be hauled into court? oh, you brought butch. yeah! (butch growls at man) he's looking at me right now, isn't he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. that's why i got a subaru crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. advil liqui-gels minis. breakthrough in pain relief. a mighty small pill with concentrated power that works at liquid speed. you'll ask... what pain? advil liqui-gels minis. find thenah.ote yet? honey look, your old portable cd player. my high school rethainer. oh don't...
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wiretapping, destruction of government documents, forgery of document letters, secret slush funds, plans for retaliation, all of this by the law and order administration of richard nixon. sounds bad when you put it like that, huh? >> in the end, some 40 people pled guilty to watergate related crimes. ho ho . >> i'm trying to figure out when did i cross the line? when did i enter that illegal conspiracy. no question i went across it. >> there was a real major break down in personal integrity and organizational integrity on those given those assignments. >> i'm not sure where i will be the next few months but i will miss you all. >> and requires you to ask the
ethical questions. is this right? is it respectful? is it responsible? is it fair? we didn't ask any of those questions. we should have started with, is it legal? we were so caught up in trying to serve the president's needs or desires that we did not ask those questions. >> i, gerald r. ford, do grant a full, free and absolute pardon unto richard nixon for all offenses against the united states which he -- >> president ford's pardon of richard nixon stunned the nation. nixon's legal problems were now over. >> when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal, by definition. >> exactly. >> the former president was still not accepting responsibility. three years after resigning, nixon was paid to participate in an historic interview with the british television journalist, david frost. at the very end, the inevitable
question came up. >> do you feel you ever obstructed justice or were part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice? >> he would not -- he wouldn't really admit anything, not even mistakes or whatever, he was really stonewalling completely. he was beginning to look like the haunted nixon of the actual watergate hearings rather than the californian ex-president. so finally i said, why don't you go further than the word mistake. >> what word would you express? >> that was a real gum stopping, gum smacking moment. >> my goodness. i threw aside my clipboard. i said, i think there are three things you ought to say. the first is that in fact you did go to the very verge of criminality, and secondly, that you let down your oath of office, and, thirdly, i put the
american people through two years of needless agony, and i apologize for that. i know how difficult it is for anyone and most of all you, but i think that people need to hear it and i think unless you say it, you're going to be haunted for the rest of your life. >> you're wanting me to say that i have participated in an illegal co-op? no. >> the key to nixon really is his dislocated relationship with truth. >> if true, the greatest words ever written in journalism, what is the truth? what is the truth? what really happened? >> you guys are probably pretty tired, right? you should be. go on home, get a nice hot bath, rest up, 15 minutes, and get your asses back in gear.
we're under a lot of pressure, you know, and you put us there. nothing's riding on this except the first amendment of the constitution, freedom of the press and maybe the future of the country. not that any of that matters. >> arguably, maybe the best movie on reporting made. what i didn't expect was the echo of the movie to last that long. to this day, i keep hearing about it. >> one thing about watergate, it was going to change the culture of washington. it did no such thing. you know of course this kind of thing will happen again, and it will happen in a much much bigger scale. >> whether you talk about fdr or whether you talk about nixon or whether you talk about kennedy or whether you talk about clinton, we have presidents that seem to be in politics for the right reason, but presidents that also have a fatal flaw. richard nixon's fatal flaw
brought him down. >> people in high office tend to not want to lay themselves open to their enemies and acknowledge embarrassing things or mistakes that they have made. they tend to want to lie when they feel like they can get away with it. all those things have been around long before watergate and still are around. >> it was an age-old story of an abuse of power and forgetting that you're accountable to the people that put you there. there will be more and we'll survive. >> what pulses through the nixon story is the question why. when he was elected, the good will of the nation and the world, it was his. that's the sadness of the nixon presidency of what could have been. >> woodward and bernstein are
the most famous journalists of our age. their names will always be associated with the downfall of a president. 40 years later, a moment to ask what the greatest political scandal in modern history means to us. it's an evolutionary tale and we've evolved. and we're older. bob and i brought very different baggage to the story and it measured. >> this was when you were 29, 30 years old. you'll never see a story this good again. >> well, who knows? >> who knows. who knows. >> it's a tale to maybe inspire a whole new generation, maybe. a generation now learning about watergate for the very first time.
difficult to say so a lot of promises there are no less can say considering that zimbabwe has had a long history of election violence and voter intimidation do you think that we're going to see fair elections this time around briefly. well so far because the fairest most transparent and least violent and elections or election campaigns thus far that the country has seen if they all really fire is another question though what i can tell you is that we have the longest ballot paper in history there are twenty three candidates on the ballot paper the opposition party has been able to go even outside harare to do complains something that was not possible before you do hear some reports of intimidation going on but they are definitely not as widespread and systematic as if they had as they
have been before the biggest question is though if the military is going to really exact any results if the opposition wins when not sure if they will not maybe intervene so we'll have to see about that thank you very much for the cure reporting from harare. to some of the stories making news around the world. in afghanistan there have been several explosions and gunfire reporters in the eastern city of tire near the pakistani border officials say the blasts went off near a facility used to train midwives there's been no immediate word on casualties. and houses of residents have been forced to flee was far is in different parts of the u.s. state of california the blazes have killed two firefighters and are still burning i should control hundreds of homes and businesses have also been destroyed a serial arsonist has been charged with intentionally starting some of the fires.
and there too those fires in greece which are among europe's deadliest this century the country's prime minister alexis to the press says his government takes political responsibility for the devastating wildfires that killed more than eighty people residents in the affected area near athens have criticized the government for failing to warn them about the danger but authorities point to indications of arson and say the situation was made worse by people building and legally in dangerous areas the reporter shot a child some pillow went to investigate. this is the place the nothis once called home he and his wife lived here on the second fuel now blackened and burned forever scarred by this tragedy he's now joins the growing chorus of voices angered authorities for not doing enough to limit the scale of this disaster could have hidden. the effort of no one kid to notify the residents to leave behind. initially we could see the fire far away in the mountains. or see the lines reach
their houses in five minutes nobody informed us that we were in danger. he takes me up into his home now filled with memories of the night he had to run for his life. his calendar still marking the day of the finest. he tells me that he's happy to be alive. living directly on the beach he and his wife were able to flee to the safety of the sea so many who lived in land weren't so lucky. enough this is house is one of many buildings here in mattie built illegally along the waterfront on the night of the fire was buildings like these that blocked the route the people desperately trying to flee to the safety of the city walls like this one made access even harder essentially leaving people trapped in lands to bend to their deaths if they did then manage to reach the corridors
like this one that go on to the waterfront they often then found that there were no steps leading down on to the beach is known a girl fell to her death just a few meters from him. people here now want and says why were these clear safety violations ignored by the government for now though all authorities can do is assess the damage. enough this is lucky his house is still habitable almost the inspectors say they're doing all they can to help residents like him try and rebuild their lives are going to go off but i doubt the engineer will register the damage and submit the repair estimate to the ministry for approval i want to stress that the state is present we here we're helping people with them all of us just have a vision to bring the country back to its feet just like alexis our prime minister has signed it is miserable you go it's all this was not. enough this doesn't know when he'll be able to return home but now he can only wait and hope that
authorities can provide the support to this community so desperately needs. by the tour de france has been to the pedal to mid states today and arts and the from the sports desk is here to talk through all the action arts it's great to have you in studio and yesterday saw the final mountain stage three of the peyronie's did it live up to expectations well they say that stage nineteen this year's tour de france is the most exciting stage as you said it's up in the pyrenees mountains it's just over two hundred kilometers longer going up the mountain then you're going down steep the mountain downs downwards and reaching speeds of more than ninety kilometers an hour anything can happen and so of course all eyes are always on the man wearing the yellow jersey. thomas and of course he wanted to hang on to it and let's take a look at what happened on stage nineteen on friday that's. the decisive day so right as head through the peyronie's with everything on the line the first
big winner of this stage was hung favorite julian aila phillipe the frenchman now has an unassailable lead in the race for the king of the mountains title. in the general classification leading thomas was under attack throughout slovenian right of primos rutledge raced into contention with a phenomenal performance which saw him cross the finish line in first place. and. i just really acquired a lot of times and finally went away then on the descent. thomas was in hot pursuit a final sprint gave him a second place finish extending his lead to more than two minutes. with just a single time trial state and the procession to paris to go welshman thomas has a first tour de france title within his grasp. so actually the two men advantage is this. head in his hand well i mean they're still stage twenty it's
a thirty one kilometer time trial anything can happen i mean he would have to crash out badly for him to lose a two minute five second advantage over over a second placed thomas to rule and i doubt that that's something that could happen but what does happen what has been happening during this tour is that some people some spectators have been attacking members of the of steam sky because they're upset about things there about alleged doping and things like that i mean so security is going to be out there they don't want this to happen again so i would say if he's careful on the track then i would say that. thomas is going to make it and the sunday ride will just be a formality but have to wait and see the from the sports i thank you very much for your insights. and just a reminder of the top story that we're following for you. people around the world have marveled at the longest lunar eclipse of the century called a blood moon for its reddish color in places the cosmic spectacle locked search for
topics: The C-Class gets a Make-Over; The first All-Electric SUV; Apps Could Make Driving in Barcelona Easier; Rally-Style Excitement: the Yaris GRMN; The...
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to leave your engine help make the car lighter overall. the interior offers options for upholstery and trim made of leather or genuine wood plus all the latest technology. this is the a.t.m. she line of luxury extras. there are two small touch sensitive controls on the steering wheel you can easily navigate through the menu for the fully digital instrument displays away. feature from as class cars. for example under the heading design you can display and configure the format layouts and adjust the various driver assistance systems and that in this day misses of all this is a bit too modern for you choose the standard version which has analog displays. to
day may actually become a trendsetter with the kona electric so far e.v.a.'s haven't succeeded in getting much of germany on board for the electric future maybe this first all electric sub compact s.u.v. will do the trick. contest i'm glad some moment points out the driving modes have won over buyers in recent years and he's found ways to modify the conus driving characteristics as well these driving modes don't just save energy the sport mode for instance is geared toward driving fun especially when accelerating you to make . the kona electric is based on the conventional kona except that it doesn't have all wheel drive from the side the electric version looks just like it's gasoline powered siblings. but at the front the corner has been
thoroughly made over for electric power there's no large grill full l.e.d. headlights only come standard after the midterm level. the flared fenders and plastic cladding when the cone of the robust off roader look that most s.u.v. buyers are looking for. him in the hobby to take on. he sees that the kona electrics interior has everything drivers and passengers have come to appreciate like a digital instrument cluster it has a smart design and the information the driver needs to u.s.b. ports in front provide all the connectivity required nowadays and allow for a cordless recharging of smart phones. electric is available with
two power trains we tested the strongest one with one hundred fifty kilowatts performance with a top trim level in the list for about forty five thousand six hundred euros in germany top speed exceeds one hundred sixty kilometers per hour. that's respective ice under the nose range is a crucial factor with e.v.a.'s as long as the owner can recharge the kona at home or at work this shouldn't be a problem but for journeys of four hundred kilometers and a stretch for example it's advisable for drivers to stop and recharge the car's batteries as well as their own light so it's the smoothest type for boy to come. along or trip shouldn't really be any problem for the kona electric based on the new w l t p test cycle the version we tested achieved a range of four hundred eighty two kilometers the batteries can be recharged to eighty percent capacity at a fast charging station in just one hour exact state of the charge data that can be
called up on the infotainment system. as it exonerates thinks it's a good idea that an eco mode the instruments will show how much the range can be extended through recuperation at least that helps to relieve some of the worries about running out of range. that's fifty five bissinger i survived i just saw many of. their recuperating can be said to three intensity this affects how much energy is regenerated while it's in motion and from the braking behavior when the driver. lets up on the pedal the maximum intensity brings the cone almost to a stop as soon as the driver's foot leaves the pedal so forward looking drivers can go easy on both their brakes and their wallets. finds the idea of the kona electric rather clever instead of coming out with
a futuristic e.-v. or sticking an electric drive into some random model and day has taken the electric drive to where the demand is then what good is an electric drive in a segment as it isn't selling anyway the kona electric is the first subcompact s.u.v. with electric drive so hyundai chances of starting a trend here aren't bad so i don't tempt fate and so does. the kona electric is a fresh idea for the evy segment not many car makers with electric cars and their range offer them and different performance versions or ranges a car buyer who is satisfied with one hundred kilowatts about ford and a three hundred twelve kilometer range can drive home a kona electric with a trimline appropriately named trent for thirty four thousand six hundred euros.
b.m.w. has rolled out a special model m. to competition with an all new engine the twenty two board charged six cylinders put out three hundred two kilowatts with five hundred fifty newton meters maximum torque and as sound like no other it goes from zero to one hundred kilometers an hour in four point two seconds prices started nearly sixty two thousand euros in germany. germany's best selling electric vehicle is starting its second run the upgraded renault zoe is getting a new engine with an extra twelve kilowatts of power but no extra weight or no is also. promising a three hundred kilometer range for it measured on the new and more realistic a w l t p ten cycle. marcello is spain second largest city it's a teeming metropolis with
a population over five million in the greater metro area that means lots of cars and lots of traffic. from the supply of parking spots fall short of the demand and stop and go traffic during rush hour fills the air with exhaust. my goal with the bicycle i have to. put a shiny toilet. it's a part of big city life but doesn't have to be a fact of it barcelona is open to new mobility concepts. the peers are a one building houses a lot of startups among them is the say at metropolis lab barcelona part of say it's a bid to become a mobility service provider of fifteen employees develop software and apps to make life a little easier for residents and commuters alike transportation has to be fast comfortable and fuel efficient so at the moment we have we are working on two projects one is
a right charity project which. they've always make life easier for us they've always to be able to match people drivers and passengers so that rather than everybody taking their cause. to their working place they can share it. this project is a project that we call the boss on the men project which is similar but not all you are talking about the small ball is that. where you can book a boss to pick you up. and drop you at home if you are. in the waiting for a boss. it was actually you were going through at the bus stop and calling the boss they're going to come pick you up and drop you at your home or smaller buses run more flexible routes stopping where they're actually needed and damping to the existing demand in real time barcelona already records masses of data on traffic movements and makes them available to the developers. the size of the law so long
as one that is very quick and tries themes like them will parse every novosti every writes every because there's not a message in the top and is as big as one of your it but at the same time is not a very small column so it's a mid sized surrounded by small columns so things like the commuting problem that i was describing before it resonates here because a lot of people leave on the seat and have to commute from the city every day and if we can make that better if it is very attractive to. another a sequence pilot projects is underway in the pirs or a one building's underground garage the metropolis lab has made five c. at emu car sharing vehicles available they can be booked by apps for business appointments and other business trips that cars are unlocked by immobile app especially set up for them.
is that we receive feedback from the zero zero zero s. . using the car showing they buy the. whole he's better to improve this type of service. with batteries fully charged the. enemy has a range of about one hundred sixty kilometers the choice of this particular vehicle for the car sharing project no action it. with our electrical car because a car is having. all the shouting forms of which are the fruit of his soul to the. it's also before for real. because inside the suit there. is something about this wait for us order if we select this type of car. this spanish car maker has branched out into mobility services the ride sharing app developed by seattle lab is set for
a market launch in september the bus on demand will be starting its test phase in october and will spur in germany. toyota is famous for building reliable and environmentally friendly cars but they also know how to build race cars the jaros w.r.c. regularly competes in international rally events and now you can have that driving experience for yourself with the you are is g r m in. the car testimony live stick describes this car is a combination of a yacht and a lotus elise the g r m n stands for a good master of nerve regrowing this car looks nothing like a lotus elise but it runs like one with a one point eight leader one hundred fifty six kilowatt compressor engine.
a taurus and limited slip differential evens out the traction when you step on the gas there's no spinning or wobbling in the front wheels the other is g r m n goes from zero to one hundred kilometers per hour in just six point four seconds and as a top speed of two hundred thirty kilometers per hour sacks performance shock absorbers make for a smooth ride and provide for a much better spring rate than you'll find in a normal you are as. you say out of the ground he says this. car wasn't built for driving around the city you can feel the engines power even in the lower reverie but for a real driving experience you have to take it out on the road and open it up the fun really starts at five thousand raf's he does a lot of. about
seventy five he says the i.r.s. has done well in this test so far but he says the steering is way too smooth and a car like this you want more direct feedback from the road but it's not just there . in my vision of what i'd like to thank what i dasn't all about he made a mistake if. you can tell just by looking at his special edition jarosz that it's a powerful vehicle the front facia come down low. and the side near roof and rear spoiler are all painted black you won't find that on the production version. the interior design is simple and functional with lots of rounded contours otherwise it makes pretty much like
a normal jarosz. the highlights include sporty but could seats that really lock you in. if you got catapult ronnie says that any high performance car with a powerful engine should also have an effective braking system and this one does up front for part fixed caliper brakes and floating calipers in the rear. and if you really have to slam on the brakes they'll do the job i was talking about. ronnie can't find much to complain about with his car except maybe that it comes only and a three door version or rather came past tense. doesn't resonate with he says that because who recently created a great car with
a young man it's got a powerful engine but they made only four hundred for the european market in two hundred for japan still was some luck you might be able to find a used one for sale at this and often involve. the don't know classy ground we took place in june for the thirteenth time there's lots of excitement here an average two hundred entries makes it one of germany's biggest vintage car rallies included in the starting lineup are classics like this prime rose yellow jaguar eat type or x k e. t a shills points out that this is his home region and it's the eleventh or twelfth time he's taken part to him the weather's like a dream said the album and. it's the right weather for convertibles of all makes once again the range of models competing in this year's doing now classic rally is
pretty amazing. the starting point is english dot site of outings headquarters the entries will be touring in style around six hundred fifty kilometers have been various picturesque countryside and car maker country. hard time finnish cars also look great the horns and audi classics feel right at home here among them this rare audi one hundred two p.s. . on the phone in the hall just found that thomas graham takes planes that for a vintage car his audi is very enjoyable to draw. if it even has an automatic transmission it's like it dries in sophos specially when compared to pre-war machines those drivers had to work hard but thomas can look forward to our relaxing day. in the early one nine hundred seventy s. this smart coupe a boasted about its eighty two horsepower and the even bigger one hundred twelve horsepower version. but engine performance is not
a major factor in the upcoming special stage. this is one of the first or early quatro from one thousand maybe one originally it belonged to me show motos chief mechanic a freshman with the surname. he drove the car until six or seven years ago before on. his four sixty. maybe even rally sport legend michelle moton or some of took the wheel we may never know even harder to drive was another legendary pre-war model the horse eight fifty three a. rather begin the other driver get up and king explains that the special stage is about even pacing and orientation he has to regularly check the road book and let the driver know which way to turn and there are special pacing laps where they have to drive at a constant speed and cover
a certain stretch right down to the sac and that's not easy in such a big heavy car it's so big but the moment the shadow hold all the such they're going to. they pass through towns and villages in the countryside around a ghost at the route is different every year even for the special stages and locations of the checkpoints. some drivers kick back and have fun just taking part is enough for them other drivers take a more serious competitive approach. the drivers cab at the cry. i would suspect taters distract them they keep their eyes on the road and their ears tuned to their co-driver just like in a real rally he keeps track of the route and the road book and monitors the car. the horse swears through the narrow streets the rules are just the same for all the
entries you know ranking and his driver managed the morning stage very well the first special stage went fine on the last one they missed an exit and probably picked up some penalty points but they're not here to win they just want to have fun you're fond yonaguni when you feel caught in the hole that's a little nugget of on. doubt it's eight fifty three sport convertible a nine hundred thirty five it's still regarded as one of the most beautiful automobiles of the one nine hundred thirty s. algos torsion founded his company in eight hundred ninety nine in cologne and later moved it eastwood swick out in one thousand nine the supervisory board forced torsion out of the company and he founded a new car company he couldn't read his own name for legal reasons. and started kalman thomas funk of audi explains that hornish was discussing names with his engineer funds vic and pickens her son was studying latin nearby at the
boyd suggested translating course or park into the latin imperative audi and that's how the company got its name. at the first day's end their route leads back to him go stunt where the teams can do so minor maintenance nobody's been knocked out not even the audi or quatro whether it's impressive history to. this driver founded quite a challenge with some interesting test of endurance along the way the special stages could be fairly complicated and a bit tricky but otherwise things went quite well for him. spoke to him in the convertible drivers were happy that they can drive the whole day with the top down now they can all start getting ready for the next no no clash the ground.
and next time i'm driving an s.u.v. with hybrid driver well test drive the mercedes g.o.c. . and out east t.t.'s turn twenty we took this sporty s. version for spin.
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manafort faces. the judge told them to get back to work though. so could it mean we are any closer to a verdict. but we start with some breaking news. an nbc news exclusive. former trump personal attorney michael cohen is discussing a plea deal with federal prosecutors. one that could come as early as this afternoon. that's according to sources familiar with the matter who spoke with nbc news. tom winter is the nbc news investigations reporter who helped break the story. our guest is a former u.s. district attorney for the southern district of new york which is conducting the cohen investigation. let me begin with you, tom, lay this out. what else did the sources say? how close the possibility of seeing some kind of deal emerge today? >> sure. so ayman, as ellie can probably well tell you, no prosecutor counts their chickens and counts a plea deal until they have it. then insigned. and the person is in court. i think we're still a little a ways away from that, based upon
Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories.
prosecutor's offices. i think a big way the southern district got to cohen was by utilizing evgeny froeman who was a state cooperator. so if the question ultimately is can the southern district share cohen with mueller, absolutely. i would expect that to happen. if the question is what is your question as to what can cohen give mueller based on the reporting that's out there, we only have the sort of narrow view, but two things. one is the payments, the hush money to the various women who have made allegations about donald trump. that could be a campaign finance problem if those payments were not recorded as contributions. and the second, the big one to me is the trump tower meeting. and there was a reporting a couple weeks ago that michael cohen has information that shows donald trump knew about that meeting in advance. if so and, importantly, if it can be cooperated, michael cohen's going to have some credibility issues. the prosecutors have their work cut out for them. if that's true, that's huge.
>> very quickly, from your experience in possible cases or at least working in the same office, how long would these negotiations have taken place? when would a conversation about a possible plea deal have been approached? who may have initiated it? >> both have to, you know, you need two to tango. cohen needs to be interested in cooperating. it seems clear he is. southern district has to be interested. they should be. and, you know, for what that process -- what i'll be interested to see is when they go into court today, where are they in the cooperation process? typically, the prosecutor will first debrief the person. and that could take -- with a guy like michael cohen, weeks, days on end. 9:00 to 5:00 days in a conference room until you're satisfied i know everything about this guy, i know what he needs to cooperate on. it's also possible they're going to put in this plea now as a place holder and then do the cooperation after. >> i want to bring in msnbc
analyst dan yny cevallos. he's at the courthouse. let me play the now infamous tape. a recording cohen made with then candidate donald trump discussing what cohen says was a possible payment to a former playboy model. we should note the trump camps disputes the characterization. >> when it comes time for the financing, which will be -- >> no, no. >> no, i got it. >> so what are the implications for trump? where's his vulnerable exposure so to speak? >> it would mostly be campaign finance law. was he aware in contradiction to the statement he made on air force one, aware that these payments -- >> all right it seems like we're having some audio problems with danny cevallos.
let me remind everyone, the two different comments rudy giuliani has made about michael cohen. listen to this. >> he doesn't have any incriminating evidence about the president or himself. the man is an honest honorable lawyer. i expected something like this from cohen. he's been lying all week or for two -- he's been lying for years. there's nobody i know that knows him that hasn't warned me if his back is against the wall, he'll lie like crazy because he's lied all his life. >> michael cohen cooperating with prosecutors, the issue of credibility immediately jumps out. you're probably going to expect to hear that case made stronger from people like rudy giuliani. how significance does this become? >> it's everything. what we saw from rudy giuliani is fairly standard stuff. when they're trying to keep the guy in the fold, it's he's a good person, he's not going to turn on us.
then, oh, he's a liar. >> motivated by something else? >> yes, so you see that all the time. but credibility is everything when it comes to cooperators. michael cohen's going to be a difficult witness to get a handle on. i've put on cooperating witnesses who were murderers in murder cases and, you know, that can work because you have to back them up. you have to back up the witness with whatever you can. cohen in some odd ways could be more complex to vouch for the credibility of then even a defendant in a murder case because he has so many dealings that are intertwined. there's going to be an awful lot. there's going to be a ton to sort out and back up. >> this is a guy who once said he would take a bullet for the president more or less and then turn around in an interview with abc to say he would at that point put family and country first. a lot of people interpreting he was beginning to distance himself. i believe we have danny back with us outside the courthouse. let's try that one more time. talk a little bit about what
areas of trump life cohen could possibly connect for prosecutors. >> well, michael cohen knew enough to negotiate deals with people that donald trump had affairs with, then certainly he's going to have a working trusted knowledge of donald trump's financials. that has to be what interest the government, the prosecutors, the southern district of new york and as i'm sure they will share the information with the mueller team, possibly the mueller team. but when you look at this case, the situation with michael cohen, the likelihood that michael cohen was going to eventually enter a plea was essentially inevitable. the modern criminal justice system. the prosecutors hold the keys to that precious 5-k1 motion for financial assistance. michael cohen doesn't get the benefit of acceptance of responsibility at the plea, i'm sorry, unless he pleads. so it was a certainty that michael cohen would at least
explore the opportunity to plea, but then the prosecutors had to make sure that they were getting the benefit of the bargain and that's why it likely took a long time. not only to hammer out -- >> all right, so it seems like we may have lost danny. let me ask you this question because you brought this up, very interesting. the federal judge has wrapped up the review of the evidence that was seized and the documents and what possible other evidence there may have been that were possibly subject to attorney/client privilege. that process concluded today. >> it did. >> did you think there's significance in the timing of that process being completed and this news you are breaking today? >> i'm glad you asked. i think that -- i think that it's an "i" dotting, a "t" crossing, if you will, but i think this investigation has been under way for a very long time. they were able to secure a judge approved warrant to get materials from attorneys, from his house, from his law office. that's not easy. that's not something that's
thank you guys very much. coming, up keep going with the breaking news in the paul manafort trial, judge keeps the jury to keep working after they asked a question about one single count of the 18 he currently faces. will it end soon? plus, hacking democracy. the very latest sign that russia is actively and aggressively trying to affect our political system. and this time, it's targeting conservative groups. and it does not look good. that's the president's lawyer's take on today on the likelihood of a sit-down interview with bob mueller. the very latest from rudy giuliani. dear great-great grandfather, you made moonshine in a backwoods still. smuggled booze and dodged the law. even when they brought you in, they could never hold you down. when i built my family tree and found you, i found my sense of adventure. i set off on a new life, a million miles away. i'm heidi choiniere, and this is my ancestry story. now with over 10 billion historical records, discover your story.
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more breaking news now. dramatic new developments at the bank and tax fraud trial of former campaign chairman manafort. on day four of deliberations, the jury has just indicated they're actually struggling to reach a unanimous verdict on at least one of the counts he is facing. they've sent the judge a question about it.delawnian has following the case for us. and doug burns joins me here on set. he is a former form prosecutor. ken, talk to us about the question the jury asked the judge. how did judge ellis respond. break it down for us. >> well, first, i want to read the question to you, ayman, because the text is important.
if we cannot come to a consensus on a single count, how should we fill in the verdict form for that count? so it suggests they're not deadlocked on all of the counts so they wouldn't have asked the question that way. there's also a possibility it's more than one count. if you substitute individual or particular for that word single, it could mean they're deadlocked on some of the counts and they're trying to fill out the jury form. the judge asked them to look at the form again. and then he also gave them what's known as an allen charge. which is language that you use when a jury is deadlocked on a particular issue to explain to them that, look, there's going to be no better jury, please go back and have at it again and try to come to some decision. then they sent them back to the jury room. >> danny, let me get your take on this. if the jury can't reach consensus on a single count, would this result in a hung jury? >> so they would be hung on whatever counts they can't reach an agreement on.
but the judge also indicated after, to the lawyers, after he sent the jury back, that if they are -- remain deadlocked on one or more counts, he would ask them how many counts they had already reached a verdict on. and then he would consider taking what's called a partial verdict, which means to accept a verdict from the jury on -- only on those accounts on which they're unanimous. and then they would have to determine how many of those counts are and whether it's worth sending them back to continue deliberating on the remaining counts. not all counts are equal in this indictment. we talk about 18 counts. but some have much greater impact on sentencing than others. so it really would depend on which specific counts the jury remains deadlocked, on whether they would continue deliberating. >> i want our team to put up this graphic on the question that was asked of the judge, because, daniel, i want to get your take on this. do you believe the jury has reached a consensus on most of the counts or is it unclear from
the note? because the last part of that question i think some are speculating that what does the single decision mean for the rest of the verdict? and so some are interpreting that as possibly meaning there is a consensus on some of the other counts but one remains undecided. >> so i was in there for this whole back and forth. and my takeaway, and i think that the judge agreed with this, since he was discussing the idea of a partial verdict, is the implication is obvious that they've reached a verdict on some of the counts. it's impossible to tell how many. they do use the word "a single count." as ken pointed out, a single count could just be a different way of saying any individual count. so i think it's a little too soon to speculate as to how many counts they are deadlocked on and how many counts they have reached agreement. i will say that from my reading of the jury questions we got last thursday evening, i got the sense that as most juries do,
they're moving through the indictment 1 through 18. and the first five counts are tax fraud. their questions last week related to the second group of counts on filing foreign bank account reports. and the implication from that question is they had already reached a verdict on the tax fraud counts. so as i sit here and this is speculation trying to read the tea leaves, but i believe they have reached the guilty verdict on the tax fraught counts and the remaining deadlocked counts could be one or more of the foreign bank account or the bank fraud accounts. >> let me get your take on this. it's day four of the deliberations. today's questions, some of this analysis we've been hearing from daniel and ken. how close are we to a verdict? how do you read what is playing out now? >> i think you are fairly close. i think the -- we can't agree on
a single thing, but that's not the context of it, you follow me. in other words, we can't agree on a single account, jumps out as first we can't agree on anything. then they say what do we do with that count on sheet clearly implies to me in my 30-plus years of trying cases they have reached a verdict with respect to some of the counts. it's likely an agreement with the tax count. remember, in the famous now four questions they sent out, one of them had to do with the fbar report and what level of ownership was required. if there's a deadlock, again, we're reading tea leaves. i think they've reached the verdict as daniel said with the tax counts and may have some deadlock with the, you know, other counts in the indictment. >> okay so you may then be here asked to speculate a little bit. if you're bob mueller and you're watching this, what do you think in terms of day four deliberations, this question, the point that daniel made about the questions on thursday evening? how do you think it's going from robert mueller's perspective? >> he would be pleased.
because the alternative of course would be, you know, we really can't reach agreement on any of the counts, okay, a totally different note. that would have been really difficult. so the point is i think mueller's probably relatively happy. and then real quick, lastly, as has been explained, i mean, you can take a verdict on counts where there's an agreement and you can ostensibly have a mistrial. >> so on that point, from the perspective that there could be could be census, would it necessarily be a victory or defeat folk bob mueller if he gets a conviction on a handful of accounts and not all 18? that's the threshold on this being successful for bob mueller or failure? >> you know, that's a tough question, ayman. because a lot of it depends on which counts. generally speaking from a prosecutor's standpoint, a conviction is a conviction. they can make arguments at sentencing as it relates to the other counts. so in a normal case, this is not
a normal case, 1 out of 18 is a victory. there's a terrorism case in the southern district of new york where the jury convicted on one of nearly 300 counts. acquitted on the remaining ones. the defendant went to jail for life because he had the one conviction. so from a prosecutor's standpoint, that's ordinarily how we look at it. from this -- in this case under these circumstances, all bets are off. it's such a politicized investigation. i'm sure everyone will be spinning it in whichever way favors their own views. >> all right, gentleman, before i let you go. we just got an update. a third significant story of the day. this is according to prosecutors for robert mueller, attorneys for michael flynn. they have now updated the court on the status of this case. they say that, quote, due to the status of its investigation, the special counsel's office does not believe this matter is ready to be scheduled for sentencing at this time. both sides say they'll update the court in 30 days in i guess in or around september 17th.
significant here is michael flynn's sentencing has been delayed. how do you interpret that? does that mean he's cooperating, he's providing something valuable? the prosecution still has more they want from him? >> once again, frustrating response. >> not at all. you're the expert. two sides to it. one is, it's a pro forma normal thing. any of us who served as u.s. district attorney knows. your point is well taken, it could be there's some additional new development. there's been some more sit-downs. again, looking from the outside in, ayman, we really can't definitively say. >> your take, on the michael flynn development? >> yes, i would say that it's unlikely they're getting more information from flynn. but they have the information they need. and what is clear from the need to adjourn it is that they still need michael flynn. prosecutors need cooperating witnesses. as we saw here with rick gates. all the way through any trial
against anyone else. they would have to testify. so the fact they're delaying flynn means there's more coming down the pipeline from the special counsel. >> what an absolutely significant day here. three of the president's closest inner circle confidants in the white house, before the white house, a lot of developments today. ken dilaniandilanian, thank you joining us. hacking democracy. russia's latest attempt to attack our political system. trump's only response, more talk about who can see the intel. needles. essential for the cactus, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint
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i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. this is' live look at the federal courthouse in virginia where jurors are deliberating of fate of paul manafort. a lot of action today with legal analyst also say a juror question to the judge about 1 of the 18 counts against him may indicate that some consensus appears to be forming aan morniamong the jurors. we're monitoring events and will bring them to you. now president trump. the very latest russia hack. during two separate hearings with members of his administration, senators from both parties questioned the white house's commitment to
safeguarding our elections. their latest concern, microsoft's announcement that it had shut down a phishing attack aimed at senate offices and two conservative think tanks. watch this. >> some of the undisciplined comments that the president makes creates just as much trouble for these people as they do for us. and the rest of our country. >> true to form, the kremlin promptly denied involvement. that is nonsense. the president should call it that and forcefully respond. >> julia ainsley, malcolm nance, nbc terrorism analyst. and clint watt, msnbc security analy analyst. jim, tell us more about what we learned about the hack targeting senators. >> ayman, so this is microsoft blowing the horn here, not the government. they're saying there are conservatives think tanks. one of those is the hudson
institute. these are conservative but they haven't always been in line with the white house policy, particularly when they say there should be harder sanctions against russia and they've spoken out against some human rights abuses in russia. they say people can come on to these websites, think they're reading materials published by these think tanks or think they might be supporting them when they're being led to things that are controlled and being published by perhaps the gru, that same group that was involved in the hacking attacks that mueller laid out in his latest indictment. so they are really using kind of classic phishing software here in some ways and leading them into places where they might kind of be going under a guise of one of these conservative think tanks. we heard the senators say the white house needs to do more about this. this is a red flag that shows midterm interference could be just as dangerous as 2016 interference. the white house, you know, we've seen people from secretary nielsen to wray, the fbi
director, saying they're taking election interference seriously. when the president flip-flops and just last month said he didn't see continuing interference from russia, it makes it hard to have a hard line on issues just like this, ayman. >> this may be a bit of a shock to some viewers that there's mixed messaging coming out of the white house. i'm joking about this one. >> it's called routine. >> let me play you the white house responses. this is deputy press secretary, watch. >> the president has said and called out vladimir putin. one of the first questions he asked was about russia meddling. vladimir putin said that was the first question i got from president trump. he knows it occurred. he wants it stopped. he finds it unacceptable. >> that's a kdefinitive statement. listen to what the president had to do. so this is from his interview i believe with roeuters on monday. he said the russia probe played
right into the russian's hands. so he's casting doubt, the president is casting doubt that it may have been the russians. does this dual message mar our national security response to this? >> trump's two sides to the hacking discussion. one day, i'll say this. one day i'll say the exact opposite of it. it does cast doubt. it sends a signal. indirectly sends a signal to russia. continue to do whatever you're doing. i don't care. and if he did care, he would at least defend his own political party in this case. we're now seeing gop targets. again. this has happened before. going back to the 2016 election cycle. senator rubio said that he was hacked. we're seeing this again. we saw think tanks in 2016 that were targeted. we see this again in 2018. the hudson institute was one that was critical of russia. they had a project which really talked about the workings of the kremlin. all of this essentially says if
you resist russia in anyway, you're going to be a target. they will only do that because the president, his administration's not taking a tough stance on the cyber front. >> so the interesting thing in that sound bite we played there, malcolm, was you heard hogan talk about how we know vladimir putin referenced that meeting where the president asked him about the russian meddling. it's interesting because bob corker made an interesting comment today. he said that more than a month since that helsinki summit, the senate still does not know what was said in that private two-hour meeting with putin. take a listen. >> we'd like to understand what was agreed to. the leaders of our two countries sat down in helsinki. where their discussions regarding current or future arms control agreements. what other promises or assurances were made? to date, we have received no real readout, even in a classified setting of this meeting. >> so we really can't get a sense of what actually happened. that's corker saying they can't even get that in a classified
setting. what, if any, malcolm, is the justification for that? is there even a justification for the fact that our own lawmakers can't get a read of what happened in that meeting? >> well, in a normal world, there would be no justification for it. everyone would demand that the information be shared and transparency be events from the white house. however, this is not a formal world. this is donald trump world. at this point, i wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow morning they announced that the u.s. joint cyber unit with russia is going to come into this and start investigating cyberattacks from fancy bear, which are set up all of these type of squatting fake websites where they can steal information from the united states senate and these conservative think tanks. we really need to understand that these initiatives start from the commander in chief, and if he doesn't believe them, nothing is going to be done. this election could be -- i don't even use the word meddle. this election could be attacked. and american democracy could
move away from free and fair elections. >> to the point that malcolm brought up, clint, three weeks or so ago, you had the white house bring out their top national security officials, dna, director of codes. you had homeland security secretary nielsen. chris wray from the fbi. all to talk about how they're taking the threat of election hacking very seriously and how they're prepared for it. there's the video of it on the screen. it doesn't seem that, you know, it has convinced people that the president himself buys into that message. >> yes, it is a strange thing. because you're essentially seeing the institutions move right around the president. say this is what we're going to do to protect the united states. when it's not coordinated, you don't have that unity of effort. it doesn't sound a message to say hey, you need to knock this off. not all hacks are about election interference. there's espionage. there's putting down dissidents. there's attacking any sort of adversary of russia. whether it has to do with the
election at all. so this requires a task force. this requires a lot of different inputs in government that are all working together. if they're not synchronized. if one goes off and does an offensive cyberattack, that was something new we heard, and someone else doesn't know, like the banking sector and dhs in terms their protections. it could be catastrophic to our country. so that synchronization, it has to be led from the top. diplomatically for it to be taking serious, it's got to be the president that leads that effort. >> it seems the president now is undermining that message with the doubt he continuously casts in all of this. we're staying on top of two very big stories. involving former allies of it is preside the president. the two legal cases heat up for his former lawyer, michael cohen, and his former campaign chairman, paul manafort. i got it. i gotcha baby. (vo) it's being there when you're needed most. he's the one. (vo love is knowing... it was meant to be. and love always keeps you safe.
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ask your doctor about neulasta onpro. applebee's to go. order online and get $5 off $25. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. welcome back. live pictures. that's the federal courthouse in alex be dr alexandria, virginia. the judge told them earlier today to keep working after they had a question on 1 of the 18 counts against him. that's just one of the three breaking news stories we're following for you this hour that could impact the trump presidency. the others, the legal case against michael cohen, president trump's former personal attorney. sources there tell nbc news that cohen is in talks with prosecutors and prosecutors for robert mueller and attorneys for
michael flynn have agreed to delay flynn's sentencing for a second time. "washington post" political columnist dana mi milbank. gentlemen, great to have you with us. dana, what might it mean for the president? should there be a michael cohen plea? does it necessary mean he's actually flipping on the president? >> it doesn't mean that at all. there are early indications that does not mean he's cooperating with prosecutors. on the other hand, prosecutors, including robert mueller, who's not prosecuting this case would have most of the information they need anyway through the tapes. i think what's really more damage to the president is just the image of all of this. you have manafort going on, you have cohen, flynn, all the others. it starts to look like the
president's former aides and advisers are forming a chain gang. >> the three we mentioned, his innermost circle at some point. to that point, let me ask you about the developments with the jurors today in the paul manafort case. it seems that the judge indicating that he would accept a verdict on the counts, not necessarily all 18 counts if they reach an agreement or consensus on a part of those. but what's the political impact. what is the political significance? if, in fact, there is a split jury decision in the manafort case? >> well, i think any conviction is going to be a big win for robert mueller. i don't think it takes much imagination to realize how stressful and how under siege donald trump must be feeling today. you know, you named all of these people who have intimate knowledge of his dealings who are, you know, perhaps cooperating and also the report of don mcgahn, his own white house counsel. you know, the problem of dialing everything up to 11 all the time is that when something really huge happens, you know, perhaps
people, you know, need to step back and go, okay, now, this is really a bombshell. and, you know, significant legal exposure for paul manafort is a definite milestone and a huge existential threat to donald trump. >> break that down for us. why do you see it as an existential threat. since you brought up the issue of the president stressed, what is the likelihood? what is the first tweet going to look like? >> well, they won't -- we're going to have many, many tweets. i think we've seen it. when the president is stressed, we have tweet storms that are epic. you can expect that. yes, exactly. the fact that michael cohen -- i mean, just try to imagine if someone would have told you that michael cohen was going to be where he is today and possibly flipping on the president of the united states. it was inconceivable. but paul manafort is also one of these people that has the crown
jewels. and, you know, people are saying well paul manafort is going to wait for the pardon. well, if, in fact, he faces, you know, a long prison sentence, it's amazing how that tends to focus the mind. and so once again donald trump has to, you know, ask what does bob mueller know? how deep does it go? and that answer cannot be reassuring to him. >> to that point, which case from the ones you're watching, the paul manafort case, the possible deal with michael cohen, which one of those presents the greatest possible threat to president trump? >> i think it's less that one is greater than the other. it's that all of these are building up in this sort of crescendo effect. i mean, even if manafort got off completely, in three weeks from now, we do this all over again. in another case. in another court here in d.c.
where there's even a stronger case against him. it would mean he succeeded in pinning everything on rick gates. his lieutenant, another trump campaign aide, who has already pleaded guilty here. i don't think any one of these is suddenly like breaks everything open. it seems to be just a building collection, all moving towards that eventual report that mueller will give us. >> i'll give you a chance to weigh in on that. the two cases we're seeing here. if they're both the same, in what ways are they more significant or different than each other? >> i'm tempted to say that michael cohen, you know, poses more damage, but i agree with dana on all of this. it it is that accumulation. that accumulated weight of sleaze and corruption. you begin to get a pattern of the people that he surrounded himself with and this constant drum beat. there's no way he's going to be able to shake this for the rest of his presidency. i do think, you know, who knows
what the straw that will break the camel's back will be but the camel is getting weighed down. >> no doubt about it. significant developments today. great to have your insights as always. will he or won't he. that is the question. rudy giuliani sits down with nbc news about whether trump will sit down with mueller. this is not a bed.
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will he or won't he? today the president's lawyer and pr man, rudy giuliani, told nbc that a sitdown interview between president trump and robert mueller looks unlikely. giuliani said, quote, it does not look good but it's not finally decided. this after the president told reuters that he's concerned that sitting down with mueller could be a perjury trap. doug burns is a former federal prosecutor and back with us here on set. shannon pettypiece is a white house reporter with bloomberg news. shannon, let me begin with you. really this isn't something particularly new. we've heard giuliani say this many times before, but now the president is talking about a perjury trap even though he's consistently said that he would be willing to sit down with mueller to clear the air so to speak. what's changed in the president's position? >> the gamesmanship about this
interview has been going on back and forth since really the end of last year, this negotiation back and forth about will he, won't he, what questions he will answer. i do agree that it seems like his legal team has put in close to their best and final offer on this interview and they want to get it done before early september so the president isn't testifying right before the mid-term elections because they understand politically how that could look. but they submitted -- the legal team submitted their offer about two weeks ago now. they have not heard back from mueller's office. so i do think that this issue is finally coming to a head one way or another. there's only so much back and forth there can be. the big concern out there right now as giuliani and trump articulated is this fear that they will give a version of events around the firing of flynn that differs from the one comey gave. the president is insisted still that he did not ask comey to go easy on flynn or let flynn go
and that mueller could decide to side with comey and take his word and contemporaneous notes and charge the president with lying to investigators if he believes comey's word over the president. that's their fear right now. >> and that's certainly one that a lot of people pointed out, doug. but the other headline that came out yesterday with reuters which a lot of people were scratching their head, we've heard lawmakers comment about that, that the president cannot do this. but yesterday the president said he has the power to intervene in the russia probe. in fact, his quotes were i can go in and i can do whatever. i can run it if i want but i decided to stay out. i'm totally allowed to be involved if i wanted to be. so far i haven't chosen to be involved. so legally speaking, politically speaking, let's start with legally first, is he right? >> it's directly analogous to the discussion you may remember about can he pardon himself. that happens to be an open question. on this one, yes, technically but it's all a matter of semantics. in other words, can he run the
investigation, no. it means somebody else in lieu of rosenstein and mueller would do it. he can't investigate himself personally. you follow me? >> yeah. >> by the way, maybe above my pay grade but politically that's like suicide. >> could he call rod rosenstein and mueller into his office and say give me an update on this investigation. >> he could. >> they would be compelled to say whether or not they're investigating. >> they could say there are certain details, mr. president, we can't give you. but he is the titular head over the justice department. again, when it involves you and i'm somewhat reluctant to use watergate analogies but i'll use one. if the investigation involves his conduct, he's much better served obviously not getting overly involved in it for sure. >> shannon, let me ask you what you make of the security clearance fight that is playing out. you had people like rudy giuliani talking about john
brennan's possibly suing the white house. goading the former cia director and saying bring it on. is this an attempt by the white house to distract from bigger issues with the whole security clearance debate around john brennan? >> it certainly doesn't seem to be an issue they're backing down on and the president has made this callous that john brennan is a good enemy. the president likes an enemy. he feels he is strongest when he has a strong opponent, someone to punch back against. he has chosen to make brennan this sort of face of the so-called deep state. of course for democrats brennan becomes the face of the so-called resistance. so it's one of these classic, i think, trump feuds that he has waged in the past and found them successful. so i think we'll continue seeing this and the white house really shows no signs on backing down about any of the security clearances. we even saw the one bruce orr brought up. so i would expect to see more names mentioned and any other
actions they can come up with to take against people who they feel speak out against them. >> we're hearing a lot of kr critics saying the president is using it as a weapon of those who speak out against him. thanks for being here. we're keeping an eye on that virginia courthouse where jurors are working on a verdict on the paul manafort trial. updates as we have them. stay with us. it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing
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that does it for our show. rachel h rachel. don't go anywhere. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. power trip let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. breaking news from the associated press. just broke the news reported that omarosa manigault newman has more than tapes. just broke.
we begin the other big story news tonight. obsessed with power. president trump appears ready and willing to use his office to punish enemies like omarosa. scare others including his own people into submission. having revoked security clearances, trump is weaponizing the presidency. axios reports president trump has become enamored with power. consultation with anyone else. when it comes to yanking security clearances it is a power that is uniquely and solely hiss. matches his idea of how the presidency ought to be. pure power and instant
gratification. investigating his enemies. yesterday "vanity fair" reported that trump told advisors that he wants attorney general sessions that he wants omarosa manigault arrested. unconcerned with the consequences with the actions he has taken to date. key figures inside the mueller probe. as the washington post reports the president is eager to invoke more security clearances. because he believes he has emerged looking strong and decisive. let's listen. >> i know that i've gotten tremendous response from having done that because security clearances are very important to
me, very, very important. and i have had a tremendous response for having done that. >> is this political retribution, sir? >> i am giving him a bigger voice. many people don't even know who he is. and now he has a bigger voice and that is okay with me. i like taking on voices like that. i never respected him. >> dozen former cia leaders have band together to rebuke the president for unprecedent behavior. they write, we have never before seen the approval or removal of security clearance used as a political tool as was done before. some 60 more cia officials join with former directors in protesting the president's conduct. joining me know is former cia
director. i want to start with john. you know, i am not sure trump cares where he shoots. he is shooting. if anybody gets in his way, he goes with whatever weapon he can find in his holster. he wants to arrest omarosa. he wants his attorney general to go out and arrest her. suing her isn't enough. he does know he is allowed to yank security clearances so first weapon of choice. >> in this case, i don't think he looks strong and determined. he looks thoughtless and like a mad king. i have seen this movie before and it is never in a democracy. frankly, he has been very transparent about this. not much artiface in his
response. the guy is erratic. >> i often thought demagoguery is not a long-term good career move. the rest died hideously. >> the other problem with this is it is not going to work because you can revoke the security clearances unilaterally of people who are out of government and who aren't actively using them anyway. but the problem with revoking security clearances as a strategy for dealing with your political problems is most of the people who have them need them to do jobs that they are doing in the service of you. so you know, what are you going to do. >> you are talking about governing. trump is not interested what you are talking about. >> if you want to run the cia, you have to have people in security. >> you are long-term thinking. reporting now, he loves any power he can get. >> i think there are moments
where we need to remind people that trump's presidency in itself a grand experiment in the american experience. never had a public without public service experience, government experience, military experience. and never had a president without no accountability. he was a sole proprietor. here is why people are, you talk about franco and other dictators. here is why we are having this discussion. people comparing his move to nixon, having an enemies list. creeping towards authoritarian. nixon at least new enough to be embarrassed of his list. >> he says they are enemies of the people. i think trump is back on his
heels. i think everything he is doing with brennan is reacting than omarosa. and she has a lot more ammo than he has ever thought of. apparently getting to the next segment, she has e-mails, documents video, tape, everything. we are going to get to a lot of stuff. she has a hell of an arsenal. i think he is reacting. brennan paid the price to omarosa. tapes scare trump. because it is not fake news. it is real. it's existent. your thoughts. you know this guy. >> well, first i agree with you 100%. donald trump is back on his heels and he is like a coronened
animal. he knows what she is capable of. and we are hearing about more tapes, videos, e-mails. >> that has got to concern him. also, let's not forget whenever he got after whether it is stormy daniels, omarosa, his bark is way worse than his bite. none of these nondisclosure agreements have held up. and he went after brennan. this man who is weak and petty, not surprisingly put himself before country. it is all about himself and nothing to do with the security of this i didn't. >> occasionally, more often for his own good, or too often for
his own good, admits stuff. as i mentioned appears to be an ulterior motive. trump made his decision weeks ago about brennan. announced the action wednesday amidst an onslaught of news coverage. john, i know you are concerned about your institution, the cia, and the government of the united states, this president is primarily concerned about covering his butt. >> yeah. >> and he will use anything. >> i think that is why you see the signatures of all of these people on these letters. >> yeah. >> it's because all of them, particularly the directors and deputy directors have had governing responsibility, responsibility for granting these clearances, for adjudicating them, and revoking them on occasion. they have had them to do it under the law, fairly, and with
integrity. and it affects the security of the united states. it has never been done in my memory for any political reason. do it for that reason, and you are going to end up in court. the president has the authority to do it, i don't think he should. all of this is governed by executive order. >> people who have spent their life working for the fbi, and cia, i know through relatives and people, see themselves as working for america, the country, not some bureaucracy. they see themselves as the good guys and they don't make a lot of money. they do this their whole life because they think this is a cause, almost like a vocation, being somebody of god if you will because it is about country. and they want to defend these institutions. they believe people working with them is the same, serving their
country. trump comes along and what is his system? >> you left out something that is implied what you said and you didn't articulate it. and i want to flesh it out. people actually believe, i know people outside of washington have trouble with this. but it is really true that the people who work in these agencies have a deep seeded idea of a political service. and they don't go in there as democrats or republicans. i know the fashionable thing to think about them as a deep state that has cosmic political interest of their own and that is not the way they think of it. they think of it as service to country. >> guys and women who want to get the facts out. >> how many jobs were created last month. >> it is important to know this. >> and people, people, there are people in the cia who work on
very particular parts of the world, political economy in myanmar. they want to get the political economy in myanmar right. >> debate club. >> and then you have these value systems that trump is up against that he doesn't fathom. he doesn't understand selfless service. he doesn't know what that is. >> he can't even fake it. and that comes, that comes off to people who actually went in with a service mentality. >> he is going after some people, not just going after his so-called enemies or what he calls enemies of the people. he is going after people who might testify against them. people involve in the mueller probe. >> that was the point i was going to make.
he put out an expanding list. no one pushing back on him. response in congress, not getting a lot of push back there. when you look at people like sally yates, they have been involved in some former fashion in the russian investigation as well. two things, speaking out against him, and involvement in the russian investigation. i've got to say, i was a little surprised not to have push back on the hill >> you mean his republicans who find no fault with this man. >> kennedy called him political and a butt head. >> so there is either going along with it and defending it or just completely down-playing it. >> chris, can i add a point. >> go ahead, john. >> i am disappointed in the reaction of his party including
people i respect senator burr and graham and so forth. i don't know that they know what they are doing. in societies that goes bad, what happens is the laws are set aside, the procedures are set aside. and what they have said about brennan is they don't like him. he deserves it. that is not a reason to pull a security clearance. if you say we are going to do it because these guys deserve it. you erode the process of governing. >> where is this guy going. that jury is sitting right there and kissing up to manafort right now today as they are deciding his fate. trump saying good guy. nothing stopping trump. when nixon went after charles manson, that was messing with the jury pool.
this guy is talking to a jury that is sitting this weekend. >> he is also projecting a bit. one of the things that scares him a bit is mueller might have his tax returns. and that is one thing that manafort is on trial for tax evasion and other things. i don't think he cares about manafort. i think he cares about how it reflects on him. and concerned about where this investigation is going and where his tax returns will show up. >> the a mmen corner if he -- >> i don't know. it is so disappointing that these members are not doing their job. they are not putting country first. and you know, that's where donald trump is successful. he made this about an individual, about brennan who has been talking badly about
him. that is where he is able to be successful and attacking people. the senators say, oh, well, he is just one person. let's see where donald trump takes this. because there is only so much people are going to take from the republican party before they completely bolt. >> if you did this all on one day and you stripped all of these people of their security clearance on the same day, we would be talking about it as a saturday night massacre. you do it in slow motion and you get used to it along the way. let's talk about the tank coming at the president, omarosa, one name and that is all she needs. and he is petrified. as bad as it is, it is reactive. he is scared to death of somebody with tape. tape has caused him trouble. thank you very much.
john brennan will be rachel maddow's guest. 9:00 tonight. first appearance since president trump revoked his security clearance. omarosa has as many as 200 more tapes she can release. like time released aspirin. trump's access hollywood tape that triggered michael cohen to give stormy daniels money. trump's overblown, overpriced military parade gets canceled. and escalating fight with new york governor andrew cuomo. how the major news papers
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. still no verdict in the bank and tax fraud case against paul manafort. the jury wrapped up day two of deliberations. back to work on monday morning. president trump spoke about the trial today calling it a sad day for our country. talk about jury tampering. let's watch. >> i don't talk about that now. i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. when you look at what is going on there. it is a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a short period of time but you know what, he happens to be a very good person. and i think it is sad what they have done to paul manafort. >> are you listening members of the jury, he wants you to be. be right back.
welcome back to "hardball." brand new reporting tonight that omarosa manigault newman has more than just audio tapes. she has a stash, apparently a big one of e-mails, text messages and hard documentation supporting claims against president trump. coming after released tapes already. she says she wasn't done yet and that is apparently true. let's watch. >> i'm not going to be bullied. i am not intimidated. going to go toe to toe with him. believe me, my tapes are better than theirs. >> thank you both. i like your reporting and your writing.
let me go to ken. you reported she has hundreds of tapes. how do you react to the news that somebody is getting the reporting tonight of associated press that she has other forms of proof. everything is documentable oopz. >> either she was going to cash in in her experience. or she was going to need to protect herself because she thought the trump inner circle. she is playing trump's tactics against him effectively in a way that is driving him crazy as you can see from his twitter feed. >> do you know whether she began collecting this documentation, especially the audio tapes when
she knew she was going to be dumped on or disposed of or she knew from the beginning. >> it was after she learned that things were going south. in very trumpian fashion, she is suggesting there is more out there. telling certainly, and telling in the content and also to hear these things directly from some of the people in their voice. but it is not bombshells. we haven't seen anything super explosive. just like trump saying he has barack obama's birth certificate. >> trump was full of bs on his claims. she is providing. what she is providing so far is interesting to me.
first is laura -- it was just money. we knew some of that was going on. the super pac has a lot of people who were working for it. who don't have clear job description and fit into the categories of just hangers on. that said, to hear laura trump make that offer, it is powerful and it does lead us wanting to know what else she had. >> i never heard of a job conversation where the offer of a job is primarily about the money. if you want to give a speech now that would be okay. it sounds like hush to me. hush, hush sweet omarosa. >> it does. if you want to talk, if you want to exist, it is fine but please don't hurt us. that smopeaks to how important is. >> i think general kelly, when
he tried to erase her from the scene. please leave the building. any idea what kind of order of battle she has. >> it is fascinating. this is one of the crisis that trump has responded to most strongly. an existential threat to the whole trump m.o. which is about being slippery with the truth. x one day, and y the next. when there is hard evidence, you can't do that anymore. >> if you are trump and you think you are the smartest guy in your family, i think that is fair to assume, he thinks so. and these people in his family that aren-- and then that laurah got taped, his daughter-in-law. i wonder if he is worried, what
in hell does that woman have on my kids because they don't know they are being taped. your thoughts. that is what i think trump worried about. actually, she has already taped him too. >> yeah. and you even hear lara trump's tone in that tape that you guys did obtain. i don't think omarosa went in with this expectation of loyalty and sort of a warm mutual relationship. she was butting heads with people from the beginning. a long list of folks that were on her bad side. she had motivation to be recording. and some of the tapes that she has released thus far in my opinion are not super conde
condemntory. it should raise concerns about who else she has. >> it was just broke christina that the reason they gave $130,000, a lot of money, it was because they heard the "access hollywood" tapes and they got spooked. >> it shows the power of the tapes. and it shows what trump's usual method was. completely lie about the whole affair and somebody had the evidence and suddenly it doesn't work and that is frightening to trump. >> i love it when he says that is not my voice on the tape. great to have you on. christina or christine? >> christine. up next, my colleague is going to join us to tell us about his interview tonight. what is this hard right
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country back in the '80s, is this whole thing of maximization. i like the fact that elizabeth warren ripped me off. >> that was former white house chief strategist, steve bannon coming on tonight at 10:00 with ari melber. steve bannon was a leading force in president trump's campaign. pushing a nationalist agenda called america first. tougher trade policies. now, 18 months into his presidency, we face an unsettled trade war with trump. so what happened to trump's agenda that looked attractive to some people a little bit, who were smart, a little bit.
joining us is the anchor of "the beat," ari melber. when this guy bannon was first out there, it was just awful. he seemed too far right. around the edges were things that were attractive to people. things like no more stupid wars. we are going to rebuild this country. we are going to rebuild stuff here. i don't see that. i see a guy saber rattling in trump. i don't see a guy pursuing rebuilding the country, and staying out of stupid wars. has this guy lost his influence. >> he is out. he is on the outs and trying to claw his way back in. some of the things that we talk about in this interview that is
airing later, how do you say that donald trump is for the working class when 83% of the tax cut benefits go to the top 1%. and how do you deal with an infrastructure that said was going to passed. how do you deal with wall street when you don't take them on. >> let's take a look. i think you are going to give me a piece. let's take a look at your interview tonight, a little tease. >> we do not want to isolate america -- >> we got the wrong thing up there. we are going to have to wait. that was frustrating. let's go. >> this election is going to come as a rerferendum on him. those around him are telling him it is okay to lose the house. you can run against a democratic house in 2020 is bad advice.
>> this guy says you lose the house, you lose subpoena power. and the house can come get you. >> this is where the republicans are in a divide. you have folks in washington around trump and down the hill, who are basically privately saying the house is written off and they will deal with it. bannon, whether you like him or not, a lot of people don't, he was the guy who backed up trump after "access hollywood" and then they did go to win in november. he wants this to be no holds bar and say impeachment of trump is on the table. he talks about his daughter in the military and what it means. and how does that square with support with roy moore. and if we are going to have
gender equality, don't you have to take on patriarchy. this is a guy who is clearly reviled, is also getting in in a way other conservatives aren't. he is trying to push this conversation even as donald trump says they are not buddies. >> i think people have to listen to him and i congratulate you in getting them on. people on the center left where i am, they need to hear this other side. it is not going to change anybody's minds but you have got to know what you are up against. >> in 2016, people were caught by surprise because we weren't listening to everything. >> we thought hillary clinton was going to win right up until 8:30 election night. not enough angry white people. thank you, ari melber. full interview with steve bannon airs tonight ten eastern.
rachel has john brennan on tonight. and he is right in the middle of the news. up next giving our round table a chance to weigh in. he is hitting them because he is scare of manigault. trump blaming the districts of columbia in stopping his bastille day parade. he is blaming the mayor of d.c. you are watching "hardball." sy, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪ ♪ your hair is so soft! did you use head and shoulders two in one?
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pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. back to "hardball." president trump's plan for a military parade this november has been shelved due to skyrocketing cost. the expected cost of the parade had ballooned up to possible $92 million for a one day
parade. today trump wrote on twitter, the politicians who run washington d.c. poorly know a windfall when they see it. i canceled it. d.c.'s mayor tweeted yup, i am muriel bowser. $21.6 milli $21.6 million of parades events, demonstrations in trump country. sad. you may remember trump got military parade envy after attending a bastille day parade in france. joined by political corresponders for routers. what do you make of this.
if trump would have wanted his parade, he would have gone back with numbers crunchers and got the numbers down. >> when he tweeted today that d.c. is poorly run, what he was doing is harkening back to the d.c. of the 1980s and 1990s. >> in the public eye, it is run by african americans and it works for him. >> we should say that d.c. has a budget surplus these days. and that was not the d.c. that president trump was talking about. >> you are talking -- >> and by the way, this is consistent with this guy. go ahead. >> you talk about how he is cutting welfare in the city and that is the impression of d.c. that people have. bowser is the most popular mayor in d.c. history. >> clean as a whistle. >> they were planning on doing
this in november. the president has a good chance of losing the house. i don't think it mattered that the pentagon didn't want to pay for it, and the city didn't want to pay for it. he didn't want to look like a fool. >> some of these weapons are heavy that they leave tracks on tar. meanwhile president trump escalated a new fight, a new war front. fighting with everybody like groucho marx these days. >> we are not going to make america great again, it was never that great. we have not reached greatness. >> well, governor cuomo received a backlash for that mark. president trump's said cuomo's
comments could be career threatening. cuomo told reporters the expression i used was unartful. >> we have to remember that andrew cuomo is in a re-election fight. there are a lot of people, if you are a minority, if you are a woman, that doesn't think america reached greatness for you. >> do you think it was a smart punch? >> we are in a -- >> why did he take it back? >> because your base hears you. and they are happy with what you are saying and they think you are taking it back because somebody made you. >> go ahead john. >> andrew cuomo is lucky that
anything he says on the campaign trail will be better than that. that is a low moment for him. >> up state new york, by the way. >> what i am hearing from cuomo's camp is we should expect him to be punching at donald trump a lot more. an opportunity for him to draw a contrast between the view of government that trump has and what he is doing in new york. >> i agree with you. when you say america was dandy 50 years ago, anyboin the ''50s. >> he wants the trump and trump wants the fight. two politicians that think fighting makes them look stronger. >> the minute you have to explain your argument, you lost your argument. >> he has this standing in new york. >> let me ask you a question.
i have been listening to you off camera. do you believe the poles that show you so far ahead of cynthia nixon, he can't lose. >> i think he is quite popular in the state and i think it would be however unwise of him to write it off. we have seen in 2010 when a wave shows up unexpected. and cuomo is going to make sure he is not one of those. >> spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on polls. >> i think he spends a lot of money on consulting. whether or not if he hits the numbers. cynthia nixon has a huge hill to climb. >> it is not going to cost her a bit to run this race. this is probably going to be good for her, i am guessing. >> for her. but the primary is going to be good for him. he has somebody in the left
where he can position himself. >> new york is moving though. kellyanne conway tried defending trump's decision of stripping brennan's clearance. >> he is a former cia director. and shows no interest in helping this administration further the national security. he is paying for his opinion now. and his opinion is against the interest of the administration which are serving the interest of our national security. >> criticism of brennan because the president himself as recruited. including nasa security advisor john bolton. is it so bad to be on
television, this president who did nine years of the apprentice. >> this president values what is said on cable news. and views it as something that needs to be addressed. >> sean hannity is sitting on his ear lobe. >> the president is watching the cable news and watching these people. president trump wouldn't have revoke the the security clearance. >> does he read? i know he reads the headlines. >> he cares about what is in the headlines. >> kelly anne ways great guest for years. i am not going to knock it. these people telling me something i don't know. you are watching "hardball" you can connect more deeply to the places of your past.
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we are back with the "hardball" roundtable, ginger tell me something i don't know. >> state legislative candidates across the country found that state legislators could go from 25% to 40% women. >> big republican donor sechnt letter to customers saying they are raising prices because of the tariffs. oil field services. >> president trump is said to spend 40 of the 60 days of the midterm on the trail. >> i think he can save the senate and not the house. we will see. ginger gibson, jonathan allen, jeff bennet.
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speech. an example of high tone political. last night i quoted another president ronald reagan on the essential value and validity. i want to pay tribute to the pattern i saw today on the front pages of the major newspapers. all displayed glorious photographs of aretha franklin. all three put the portrait of her well above the fold. that they did so said well. it was her life that demanded the highest attention. what she did with it that put her up there just below the banner. it was her work that won this country's respect. her soul that seized this final
special counsel. >> is he hoping for a pardon from president trump? >> not only is he not hoping for, he would not accept a pardon. >> we all knew that this was going to be used as a hush money kind of payment from campaign finances. >> you knew at the time? >> we knew. >> the conviction of paul manafort is another blow to president trump and a boost for special counsel robert mueller. >> mr. manafort is disappointed of not getting acquittals all the way through or a complete hung jury on all counts. he is evaluating all of his options at this point. >> its a bad day for the president and i'm sure he understands that. >> it looks like manafort and cohen only have more to say, only may cooperate more. this could get worse. >> i don't think he can be indicted while sitting in office, but we'll just have to see where this all works out. >> the heart and soul of this is about collusion with the russians and obstruction of justice.
first of all, the house of representatives draws up articles of impeachment. think of the house as the prosecutor, the document details any, quote, high crimes and merchandise that the president is believed to be guilty of. only the house can bring charges against a president but any individual congress person can start this process. next, the house votes. at least two-thirds of the chamber have to approve the impeachment. 288 votes as its currently instituted since there are four vacancies in the house right now. this is a high bar making many impeachment proceedings a bipartisan effort, neither party can do it on their own. once the house approves the articles of impeachment the matter goes to the senate. the senate tries the case and votes acting as defense, judge and jury. the threshold is two-thirds. even half the chamber voting to impeach would still acquit the president. two-thirds of the senate, 60 as it stands right now are needed to vote guilty for impeachment. if they do, the president is
removed from office, the vice president would then take his place. we have never gotten to this step before with the senate acquitting andrew johnson and bill clinton. richard nixon resigned before impeachment proceedings could begin. had he not done that, he would have been impeached. john mitchum and jeffrey rosen. we even have democratic senators this morning tammy duckworth, elizabeth warren all saying this isn't the time to talk about impeachment, we have other things to talk about. jeff, let me start with you. i heard allen dershowitz on with hallie jackson a little while ago saying the things that michael cohen said he did with the president don't amount to high crimes and merchandise. the president actually tweeted out this morning they're not actually a crime. i think the more relevant thing for people who are thinking about this politically is that michael cohen admitted to doing something that was designed to
influence the outcome of the election and many out there saying, maybe the outcome of the election was affected by the fact that these two women karen mcdougal and stormy daniels were not able to speak as freely as they otherwise would have had there not been money paid to them? >> that's exactly right. and history suggests that not all crimes are high crimes and impeachable and not all high crimes are necessarily criminal, but remember the framers said treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors. so bribery of a president who was a secret spy or foreign agent to influence an election is the quintessential thing that the framers tried to reform. giving as well as taking a bry is impeachable. if the president through his lawyer bribed stormy daniels to keep quiet to influence the election, its at least arguable and democrats will argue that
not only is that the periphery but at the very center of it. let's think about this from a historical context. we talked about the three presidents that had proceedings at least begun against them. historically its a big deal, right? republicans in this administration, in congress, have been reluctant to even criticize the president on things that are much less serious than this. its unclear whether this is the final straw or this is the bridge that was too far but the bottom line is, it takes a lot for congress to go down that road of impeachment or even the steps leading up to impeachment. >> and it was supposed to as james mattis said at the convention, malad administration was not grounds for impeachment. if you disagree with him, with the president on various issues, if you think its incompetent that's not grounds for impeachment.
that's what elections are for. they were very specific in general in a maddening way in the impeachment clause. it is treason, bribery, other high crimes and misdemeanors. treason is defined in the constitution, bribery is self-evident. high crimes and misdemeanors is something that can be determined by any given congress in terms of how they, as you laid it out, how they choose to indict the president in the house itself. so its all certainly arguable. i think that one of the reasons for the temperature rising as rapidly as it has is you now have the president's lawyer saying that he directed him to commit a crime that was, in fact, bribery and so whether the house decides that's impeachable has a lot -- will depend on a great deal of whose sitting in
the house at the moment. its very rare, its a nuclear option. andrew johnson was impeached not least because he was a democrat in a republican era. he even put on the ticket in 1864 by lincoln to broaden the republicans appeal in that tumultus election. the first impeachment proceedings is andrew johnson actually started before 1865 was out and they ultimately found a pretext for it. president nixon was more of a cover-up in terms of political espionage and abuse of power and with president clinton it was really more about perjury about the cover-up. so this is unique in that conversation and its going to be a fascinating ride. >> jeff, there's a lot of talk from people who presented as fact that a sitting president cannot be indicted.
a former attorney general has written in "the new york times" that a president can be indicted and the trial postponed until he's not president and he writes, that should not however preclude a grand jury from indicting a president when the facts and the law warrant even if the trial itself has to be postponed until he or she is no longer in office. can you give me your thoughts on that? >> sure. its a debatable question but the bulk of the authority is in favor that the sitting president cannot be indicted. in fact, that's what the justice department has concluded in its official regulations. robert mueller has said he will abide by those regulations. mueller has made clear he will not indict the president as part of his investigation. interestingly, brett kavanaugh the supreme court nominee when he was working for kenneth star said it was an open question and he thought the president could be indicted or at least as you suggested indict the by a grand jury and the trial would take place after he left office. but relying on a statement by
>> anything's possible. >> we're testing a lot of legal theories in this administration. you talked about how the framers had intended for the manner in which these things be handled and elections are sometimes the better option. the good news is we've got one coming up. for americans who haven't studied this as well as you two have who think there must be some remedy for this, some americans think this is just the straw that may have broken the camel's back. many people thought that camel's back was broken for some time ago. for those americans upon whom they rely, the courts, the justice department or the ballot box? >> and the congress. >> good point. >> and this is the system we have. my unsought counsel to people who are particularly concerned about this and i think everyone should be is to speak up as skuntly and coherently as
possible about what you want the legislative remedy to be because that's the most -- the congress is the place where it is either a mirror -- far more often a mirror than a molder of public opinion, but the people themselves can't do much about the justice department or about the courts. that's by design. the framers put article 1 in the first place for a reason. they are our direct representatives and if people believe that the president's conduct is such that he should no longer be in that office, they have to make that clear to the people who represent them in the house and the senate, and right now as, by the way, during watergate you have a republican party that is going to be dragged kicking and screaming to this conversation, but we are a republic and we are a democracy.
this is a case where our democratic lower case d impulses have to come in, people have to speak up and convince those representatives that the will of the people is now such that they should pursue these proceedings as vigorously as possible. >> thanks. this is a complicated but remarkably important issue. thank you for your time. coming up next, president trump's fixer is guilty of violating campaign finance law, could trump be guilty of it too? what michael cohen's accusations mean for the president?
Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories.
Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories.
welcome back. some days we love social media because a number of you sent me information about something i made a mistake on in the last segment. i want to correct that. to impeach the president the house needs only a simple majority, not two-thirds. the house needs a simple majority. the senate does need a two-thirds majority, but that would be 67 of the senators, 66 of the senators or 67, someone will help you with the math on that, its two-thirds of 100 senators depending on how many seats in the senate are actually filled at any given time. thank you to those of you who sent that information. president trump is ripping his former fixer michael cohen this morning tweeting if anybody's looking for a good lawyer i would strongly suggest that you don't retain the services michael cohen. that's because cohen has linked the president to a federal crime. two counts, by the way, against
cohen deal with hush payments to the women that trump allegedly had affairs with. campaign money may have been used and it was done in secret to have an influence on the election in one case the contribution was more than would have been allowed any way. cohen said in court that the payments were made, quote, in coordination with an at the direction of a candidate for federal office for the principle purpose of influencing the election. this is the part that is relevant, for the principal purpose of influencing the election. had that money not been paid the election would have been influenced. the payments he details are $150,000 to karen mcdougal paid my ami and $130,000 to stormy daniels through a company set up by cohen. both of these are separate and different campaign finance violations. the stormy payment exceeded the $2,700 limit on individual campaign payments and the mcdougal payment was an unlawful
denied having done this, he denied it while in office and, in fact, it was apparently done. >> and that for the purpose of influencing the election as you said in the introduction. that's the key here because the question for these payments was always, is this to keep the marriage together, is it to keep donald trump and melania's marriage together or is it to keep the campaign together? and michael cohen answered that question yesterday, but we already basically knew the answer to that question because of when the payment was made, because of the fact that michael cohen was apparently approached further before the election and he rebuffed those statements. if you have these payments right before the election, you have the indisha that it was for the purpose of influencing the election and you have the president's lawyer saying yes, that's exactly right. >> nick, you take a different view in that while everybody believes this is a very serious matter and michael cohen threw the president under the bus in making a deal for himself, you still think that you have to take michael cohen in concert with paul manafort and the fact
that they both would've known about russian involvement in the campaign including the trump tower meeting because manafort was in that meeting and this is really about the pressure campaign on manafort to tell what he knows and the pressure campaign on manafort by trump to not disclose anything. >> that's exactly right. the whole point of what manafort knows, he was so involved in russia. he was convicted for receiving, you know, over about $70 million from the ukraines which all came from the russians to keep their puppet in place. he was very connected to russian intelligence, to russian agents and was at that june 9th meeting in trump tower. michael cohen also, according to christopher steele and the reports that he accumulated, came up with information that michael cohen was in prague after manafort left the campaign in order to take care of the hackers that had hacked into the
democratic national committee and to continue what paul manafort was doing with the russians. if you read the steele report and you substituted stormy daniels for the russians and the hackers, its like he was doing the same thing. he was trying to keep all of this away from donald trump. >> cover-up stories, keep them away, not have them come up. independent of the statement that michael cohen made, jessica, that this was done with the intent of influencing the election, would the hush money payments still be problematic? >> the hush money payments could be problematic for the person who made the payment, which is michael cohen and for -- there's an issue here with respect to the parent company of the "national enquirer," but it might not -- the question was always, what did the president know and when did he know it? and so because michael cohen has said, no, i didn't do this on my
own, this was not a rogue mission, this was president trump telling me, yes, let's try and pay these people off to influence the election, that's the moment where we have liability for the president. >> that is the moment in which the legitimacy of this presidency comes into question because a whole lot of people said i don't understand why this is a bridge too far given all the bridges that have be crossed by this president. the president has been accused of doing, they didn't involve his actual presidency. some crime that may have resulted in the president gaining this presidency, that speaks to the legitimacy of this presidency, the legitimacy of this presidency came under great pressure last night. >> of course. this is what its all about. you've got him now involved as a co-conspirator with michael cohen. this is not some simple campaign violation. what makes this different than a normal civil violation is the fact that they used phony documents, they falsified the
documentation making it appear as though michael cohen was doing legitimate legal work when, in fact, he wasn't. they set it up so he was getting $35,000 a month. he set up a company that was a phony company in order to make the payments. they had other people that were involved in this. there's even a tape with donald trump where they talk about the karen mcdougal, where there's a reference to paying off with cash, all of this has what are known in the legal jargon as the badges of fraud that make the difference between what is civil and what is criminal. >> thank you to both of you. nick akerman and jessica levinson is a law school professor and attorney. next, president trump could absolutely pardon his former campaign chairman paulmonfort, but will he? how pardoning power works?
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applied tremendous pressure on him and unlike michael cohen he how farer refused to break and make up stories in order to get a deal. such respect for a brave man. a number of counts, ten, could not even be decided. witch hunt. that would be the ends of the tweet. and this is the latest defense of manafort. >> manafort has nothing to do with our campaign but i feel -- i feel a little badly about it. they went back 12 years to get things he did 12 years ago. >> i think the whole manafort trial is very sad when you look at what's going on there. i think its a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a very short period of time, but you know what? he happens to be a very good person. and i think its very sad what they've done to paul manafort. >> i feel very badly for paul manafort. again, he worked for bob dole, he worked for ronald reagan, he worked for many, many people and this is the way it ends up. >> manafort had nothing to do
with our campaign. that would be a straight-up lie. months ago "the new york times" raised the prospect of donald trump pardoning manafort. let's take a look at how the pardon would actually work. the president can forgive someone from a crime or excuse them from punishment. we should also note that the president can extend a pardon to someone who's not yet even been convicted of a crime. while its broad, there are some limitations that apply here. first, a presidential pardon can only be extended to those convicted of crimes in a federal court. that's the case for manafort. had he been facing charges in a state court, the president would not have the power to pardon him. now let's look at the pros of a pardon for manafort. trump extending a pardon is completely legal. this is an executive power. congress cannot reverse or stop a pardon. on the flip side, while congress has absolutely no say in presidential pardons, if they
found the president is abusing pardons for corrupt purposes which this might be they still reserve the right to pursue impeachment which we discussed earlier requires a simple majority in congress but two-thirds of the senate. here with us now is former deputy assistant tom dupre. also joining us is daniel goldman. thank you for being with us. tom, let me start with you. michael cohen's lawyer lanny davis said today that he wouldn't accept a pardon if trump even offered one up. we don't know if that's true but that's what his lawyer said he would say. with manafort, is there any reason for him not to accept a pardon from the president. >> i don't see any reason why he wouldn't. one school of thought is the very reason why manafort was willing to roll the dice, go to trial rather than take a plea as so many other people have in the mueller investigation is precisely because he thought there might be the possibility of a pardon down the road from
the president. the other option that the president could at least consider is whether to commute manafort's sentence which would mean that even the conviction would remain he wouldn't end up serving jail time. >> let's talk about that for a second. michael flynn has not been sentenced yet. papadopoulos, the special counsel, didn't provide substantial evidence and the government -- the mueller investigation has not challenged what the sentencing guidelines for him would be, zero to six months, he sent out a weird tweet saying decision time. could the president do a few things by suggesting a pardon for manafort and would he do it now? >> i absolutely think that manafort is playing the pardon long game here and we will know that almost for sure by september 17th when this trial in washington, d.c. is set to begin, because the time to cooperate, the last best chance is right now and interestingly,
manafort's lawyer when he got out of court yesterday did not say as many defense lawyers do, we will appeal this, we have -- >> considering all his options. >> we are evaluating our options which indicates they're thinking about a lot of things. i thought for a long time that manafort is playing the pardon game in part because there's no other sensible rational to choosing to have two trials. it only benefits the government and so when you start to see donald trump's tweets and statements about you're a good guy and he's treated unfairly which mirrors some of the statements he made about other people that he's pardoned, the writing is quite obviously on the wall. as to flynn and papadopoulos, we're starting to see a little bit more into the recesses of mueller's investigation, not the substance but some of the background stuff. first of all, papadopoulos apparently attempted to cooperate, but was unsuccessful because he didn't tell the truth. so he's wiped out. he's lower level so he's not as important. michael flynn's sentence being
extended indicates there's still an ongoing investigation where robert mueller and the special counsel's office needs michael flynn and his potential testimony and that is significant because it means that there's very potentially more coming down the pike. >> remember, tom, we knew about manafort and his involvement long before we knew about michael cohen paying off these two women. there are a lot of americans sitting there thinking all they needed was the evidence that michael cohen produce that had he paid these women with the intention of influencing the election, but others say, really, manafort and what he knew about the russians is more important right now and it does seem from the president's tweets that he's actually worried more about manafort and what he could say than what michael cohen's already said for some reason, i'm not sure why that is, but he does seem to be more concerned about it? >> that's a good point. the president should be worried about both separate prosecutions. as far as manafort goes, the question is what, if anything, did manafort know about the
campaigns' involvement with the russians? i tend to think that there is a good chance that manafort actually doesn't have an enormous amount of information to give mueller because if he had, maybe we would've seen a plea bargain earlier in the process. it is possible that manafort is playing the long game as you said earlier. that would be one explanation as to why he was willing to roll the dice and go to trial. the next few months are going to be telling because if manafort's second trial goes forth and there's another conviction, at some point the opportunities for manafort to cooperate with robert mueller will have evaporated totally. >> all right, guys. thank you very much. coming up next, trump's former fixer and lawyer spilled on how the trump organization was involved in hush money payment to women that donald trump knew. we'll match those payments to key moments in the campaign. hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada,
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medicare supplement plan. applebee's to go. order online and get $5 off $25. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. back to our continuing coverage of the president of the united states being implicated as a co-conspirator in a federal crime. michael cohen's guilty plea gives us a deeper look into the timeline of hush money payments that were made to women that president trump is accused of having affairs with before the campaign. this isn't just the gossip is once was, this is a pattern of criminal misconduct ordered by mr. trump to his personal lawyer who is now an admitted felon. on august 5th, 2016, playboy model karen mcdougal signed a nondisclosure agreement with
american media incorporated, the parent company of "the national enquirer." she received $150,000 from the company which was owned by trump friend david pecker to keep quiet about her alleged affair with trump. two months later on, october 7th, the "access hollywood" tape showing mr. trump bragging about assaulting women was released. later that month on the 27th, michael cohen paid adult film star stormy daniels $130,000 to keep her affair with the presidential candidate quiet. the next day daniels signed an nda covering the affair and the payment. 11 days after that, donald trump was elected president of the united states. now according to the criminal information filed in cohen's case, he created fake invoices sending the first one out on february 14th, 2017, the same day the president asked then fbi director james comey to let the flynn matter go. on april 5th of this year, the
president told reporters on air force one he didn't know about the payments cohen arranged while he was president he said that, but a month later on may 3rd he finally acknowledged that he did know about the payments which cohen says were meant to effect the outcome of the election. joining me now, former assistant director of the fbi ron hossco and former senior vice president of the "national enquirer," stu z-ak a.m. the president is implicated in michael cohen's court documents. we can forget about the technicality of whether its an unindicted co-conspirator or whether he's the elections violations are not actually criminal, the fact is, michael cohen has confessed to making these payments for the purpose of influencing the outcome of the election. now what happens? >> well, look, if i'm robert mueller, if i'm looking through his eyes, i'm looking at the
strength of this case and i'm also looking very closely at the weakness of this case, if its going to form the basis for some indictment by mueller where the president is named as an unindicted co-conspirator. on the strength side and i think dan goldman, you know, and you covered this just a few moments ago, look, this is "a" unseemly, "b," it looks conspiracial in the way its constructed, the timing is suspicious and troubling the way the documents are constructed to make for a cover-up. all of that makes for what appears to be a nice, tight conspiracy and potentially voiolative. law. there's been reporting in the last 24 hours of a former fec chairman suggesting these payments were personal and they are not, in fact, campaign
violations. campaign finance violations. that if true is something that i as robert mueller am going to look at very, very closely. what's the precedent? its one thing to have michael cohen and taking a guilty plea to these things and his attorney coming out and professing them and pointing a finger at the president, its another thing to look at the precedent, who's been convicted of this before, does it clearly fit within federal campaign violation law or does it not and then secondaril secondarily, what else proves it. michael cohen is not good enough with robert mueller. >> the reason we didn't have a cooperation agreement is that this all came out very quickly and that all has to be vetted. they have to know that the stuff that michael cohen is going to give them is legitimate receipts. stu, the payments including those by american media, the
parent company of the "national enquirer" are caught up in the allegation that it is an incorrect contribution, corporate contribution that should not have taken place. david pecker is referred to in the information. what does this mean for him and for the "national enquirer" and for american media? >> i think the major thing we have to look at is, aside from the politics, this is a first amendment issue. he is the media owner. i'm not defending him nor what the administration has done, as a communications professional, you look at the power of the media. >> right. >> and the first amendment gives us that power. you and other outlet covering news. the fact that he pays for the news is not what the issue is. >> that's a separate issue. that american media would routinely pay catch and kill, you take a story and you don't run it. that's a separate issue from the fact that they may have done this in coordination with the president and michael cohen to influence the election. >> yes. i believe so. once again, in spite of whatever
the collusion, whatever, within the first amendment you have the right to say what you want. no one has to prove evidence and if its true and when you have an audience that pecker commands right now, it does effect how people think about things but it doesn't have to be proven. he has the right to say what he wants as you do. >> if it is proven -- again to ron's point, we don't know anything other than what michael cohen has said, but if he is able to create a triangle out of this, we know michael cohen was definitely involved. he says donald trump directed him to do it but he also says in the information that there were conversations with american media to this end, that they are doing this on behalf of the president. that then does become a slightly different story. if david pecker is now part of aconspiracy to keep a story out of the public for the purpose of influencing an election -- >> it doesn't. i don't know advocate what he's done. it's still a first amendment issue. i don't think there's a way you
can tie him into that triangle. he has a base of people who read his news regardless, whether we think its right or not. >> right. >> he's not violating anything by doing that. he may be helping his friend which is once again why you -- one of the reasons you own the media property but i would take issue with the fact that there is something you can take into court on that would not explode the whole first amendment issue. >> thanks very much for your analysis on this. its an interesting discussion about how "the national enquirer" fits into this whole thing. the first two members of congress to support president trump are both facing criminal charges. we're live on capitol hill with details on the dozens of charges and what it means for the president and the gop. you're watching velshi and ruhle. how about some of the lowest options fees? are you raising your hand?
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get your groove on with one a day 50+. ♪ get ready for the wild life ♪ complete multivitamins with key nutrients that address 6 concerns of aging, including heart health, supported by b-vitamins. your one a day is showing. adding to president trump's worst week ever, the first two members of congress who endorsed him are now both facing chancellor. republican congressman duncan hunter of california was indicted yesterday along with his wife by a federal grand jury in san diego. they're scheduled to be arraigned tomorrow. they are charged with illegally using more than $250,000 in campaign money to pay for personal expenses including
vacations, golf outings, expensive meals and school tuition and violating campaign records. two weeks ago republican congressman chris collins of new york was arrested after a federal grand jury indicted him on charges of insider trading and lying to federal agents. collins pled not guilty. both congress men endorsed candidate trump in february of 2016 and they continue to support him. >> you're going to start seeing a presidential mr. trump, he's talked about it, shifting to a more presidential speech-giving, policy positions, and demeanor. >> donald trump as president has signed into law more bills than either obama or bush at this point in the administration. >> i think it says a lot that trump even came to california. he knows he's not going to win here. he knows the entire state is against him. >> i don't care if he misspeaks or says the wrong thing.
he has a different technique. that's why i voted for him. that's why the american people elected him. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt joins me live. kasie, rachel maddow said last night that duncan hunter is the luckiest politician around, because earned normal circumstances he would be all over the airwaves. but in between manafort and cohen, his story got lost. >> yes, ali, i've been here long enough to have covered members who ultimately resign in disgrace and it's usually an all-consuming story for all the reporters up here on capitol hill. as you point out, there are instead these two massive stories about hamanafort and cohen. and this is a congressman who supported trump. at the same time, the allegations are serious. as you outlined, he and his wife are accused of misusing campaign funds for personal reasons. a variety of expenses, including tequila shots, including tickets
for family members to fly to see the steelers, including a $600 airplane ticket for his pet rabbit. i could go on. this is something that had been in the works for a while. people have been talking quite a bit about the cloud hanging over duncan hunter to the point that darrell issa was even contemplating -- he of course a republican stepping down from his california seat because he was worried he couldn't win there, he was thinking about running in hunter's district because of hunter's problems. hunter will face a democrat in the fall. now, he is not necessarily the top democratic recruit, that's not necessarily what the party wanted, but at the same time he's caught a lot of attention with the progressive base and he has been fundraising, he was endorsed by former president barack obama. so he could be potentially one of those candidates, those new, non-politician candidates that we see coming out of this midterm election cycle, because as of now, duncan hunter as you point out is using the trump
defense, really, calling it a witch hunt, saying this is politically motivated, that all of this is nonsense. of course the courts will have to determine that. for now, the house may be lucky that they are still in august recess, so we haven't had a chance to ask in the hallways, many of his direct colleagues in the house of representatives here. but paul ryan has stripped him of his important committee chairmanships as this winds its way through the courts. >> kasie, you've had a chance to talk to some people around there about their reaction to manafort and cohen. we're not seeing any real full-throated criticism from republicans, particularly about the allegation that donald trump was involved in directing michael cohen to pay stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. there are a couple of republicans who have expressed greater dissatisfaction than typical. >> here's how i would characterize it, ali. you're right, the senate is in session today so we've been able to talk to senators about this topic. there is a sense of gravity to
this, that has been missing from a lot of the other news of the day controversies we've covered day in and day out now for basically every day of the trump presidency. you're right that we've not necessarily heard strong condemnations from across the board from republicans. bob corker did express -- he did express that this was particularly negative, i apologize, i don't have the quote, he talked to our marianna sotomayor earlier today. he has been very strong against this administration. we're still wait to go hear from jeff flake and lindsey graham, they have often been willing to criticize. but i do think you don't get people brushing this off. when we talked about security clearances, for example, i asked paul ryan, hey, how big of a problem is this, he said, oh, he's just trolling you, it's kind of a joke. no one here is treating this like a joke. they are instead saying, this is incredibly serious, we need to see where this leads. now, that of course is not trying to say that they are
calling for action against the president or action to protect the special counsel or action to, for example, delay the kavanaugh hearings which is what democrats are now demanding or some democrats, i should say, are now demanding. >> kasie, good to see you as always, kasie hunt on capitol hill. stay right here, in just a few moments andrea mitchellel will speak live to senator kamala harris, a member of the judiciary committee. today he's building his own portfolio brands. find out how he does it when we follow him for a day on "your business," sunday morning 7:30 eastern on msnbc. >> sponsored by the powerful backing of american express. and american express has your back every step of the way-
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brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. all right. that brings it to an end for me. thank you for watching this hour of "velshi & ruhle." i'm going to be back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern. you can check us out on social media and connect with our show @velshiruhle. right now it's time to hand it over to my friend andrea mitchell for ""andrea mitchell reports." dark day. the president of the united states is implicated as an unindicted co-conspirator in court after his former lawyer and fixer michael cohen says donald trump directed him to pay hush money to a porn star and a
A recap of the day's news.
mr. trump, helped along by aras and amon. it's clear from the very beginning the information being offered to the trump campaign was coming from russia. and it was clear that the information being offered was dirt on clinton. it's the first thing they said. despite trump junior's initial claim the meeting was about the adoption of russian children. that claim coming in a statement we later learned was dictated by president trump himself. after white house press secretary sarah sanders claimed he didn't. how did we learn about the president's statements? well, his own attorneys acknowledge it in a letter to robert mueller in january. it's all right there in front of your face. it's all in writing. this is an administration that has tried to distract and deflect from the facts literally from day one when then press secretary sean spicer, remember, tried to claim that president
trump's inauguration crowd was the largest ever. and kellyanne conway doubled down on this classic alternative facts. >> you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer, our press secretary gave alternative facts. >> you can't make this -- you can't make this stuff up. almost said it. then there's this from one of president trump's attorneys, jay sekulow, claiming that facts develop. >> so i think it's very important to point out that in a situation like this, you have over time facts develop. >> excuse me. and president trump himself trying to tell you not to believe what you see with your own eyes. >> just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening.
in a matter of day the president's former attorney, so-called fixer, michael cohen, could face criminal charges related to possible fraud and campaign finance violations. the fact that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort is on trial on charges that could land him behind bars for the rest of his life if convicted. and the fact that, so far, the special counsel, robert mueller, has brought a total of 191 criminal charges against 35 defendants. there have been five guilty pleas. those are the facts. that is truth. and the president cannot distract and deflect from that. facts matter. now i want to bring in a man who knows exactly what can happen when a president doesn't want you to tell the truth. cnn contributor john dean was nixon white house counsel. he joins us now. thank you so much. good evening to you. >> thank you, don. >> so the president called you a rat in a tweet today.
if the president -- >> the current president. >> yeah, the current president. so, if he is watching right now, and we know he likes to watch, how would you like to respond to him? >> i tweeted back to him that, first, i didn't think he really understood what mcgahn had done or not done. that became even more evident 48 hours after his initial tweet, that he diplomat have a clue what mcgahn had done and they began worrying about it. i'd also tell him that i did not go to the prosecutors and testify without telling nixon i was doing so. in fact, i listened to a tape yesterday where i'm talking -- john erlichman, my predecessor as white house counsel, nixon's top adviser, told the president that i was visiting with the prosecutors and he was suggesting it was the smartest thing in the world for me to do and give an appearance of cooperation. well, i didn't just give an
appearance. i cooperated. >> just so we get the facts right, he tweeted you yesterday. i think i may have said today, but it was yesterday. he said, the failing "new york times" wrote a fake piece saying white house counsel done mcgahn was giving hours of testimony to a special counsel, he must be a john dean type rat. rat in all taps. but i allowed him and all others to testify. i didn't have to. i have nothing to hide. so, john, the president of the united states is calling you a rat. you're the guy -- by the way, on the same day his wife was saying you shouldn't be a bully on social media, on the internet. you're the guy who told the truth about the tapes, you know, if they ever come out. what does that say about the president's frame of mind? >> well, it's more like a mob boss talking than a president of the united states. and that seems to be where his head is and the way he thinks and the kind of loyalty he
demands is not what a president typically demands but what a mob boss demands. he's complained about the way he's being handled with the russian investigation. well, i think the investigator has figured out, they may be dealing with a mobster type president. >> yeah. you know, sources are telling cnn, john, the president is unnerved by mcgahn's 30 hours with the special counsel and that he didn't realize the full extent of their talks. he should be unsettled, shouldn't he? >> he should be. and that was one of my lines in my tweets pack to him. but the reason he should be concerned, even though apparently mcgahn's lawyer has assured them that they -- that mcgahn did not incriminate the president, who knows what incriminates him? and i'm sure they didn't put out a hard line on purpose so the man can keep his job and do the work he wants to do. but, yes, he's a very important witness. his testimony is almost contemporaneous with the events,
and 30 hours is a lot of time to spend with prosecutors. >> just to be clear about what you said, and just then, john, sources telling cnn that mcgahn didn't provide any incriminating evidence to the special counsel. again, that's according to "the washington post." it's only this past weekend that mcgahn's attorneys told the president's attorneys that he doesn't think he implicated the president. but isn't it a major failure on the part of the president's attorneys that they weren't fully debriefed about the extent of these interviewed? >> well, it's kind of typical of the trump white house operation, where they seem to botch and mess up everything. normally that would have been the case. they would have said, what do you have to say, before he went over and heard his story, and then they would have debriefed him when he came back. that didn't happen. >> up, we said -- since this has been going since he took office,
that this president thinks the white house counsel works for him personally, and that's not so, right? do you think it's finally clicking to the president that don mcgahn doesn't represent donald trump, the individual, but instead represents the office of the president? >> it might be starting to click, if that's the case. this is one of the positive post-watergate developments where the american bar association looked at all these situations, particularly those that arose during watergate, and sorted it out and came up with rules on representation of organizations. it's rule 1.13, and that makes it very clear that mcgahn's client is not donald trump. it's the office of the president. >> you know, i've asked you about this before, is history repeating itself. you said history didn't repeat itself but it often rhymes. i want you to stick around. when we come back, i want to
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what's your take? >> well, they are redefining a perjury trap by just being two differing witnesses and who are you going to believe? really a perjury trap is a situation where a prosecutor has no other charge to make against the person and brings them in and just keeps drilling them until they can find an error in their testimony and then use that. this is not that situation at all. >> i want to play something. this is from your senate testimony, 1973. watch. >> what i had hoped to do in this conversation was to have the president tell me we had to end the matter now. accordingly i gave considerable thought to how i would present this situation to the president and try to make as dramatic a presentation as i could to tell him how serious i thought the situation was that the cover-up continue. i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing
on the presidency, and if the cancer was not removed the president himself would be killed by it. >> a lot of people, john, are looking back on your role in history. what parallels do you see now? >> well, we certainly have many echoes. we have parallels in the russia investigation starts with a break-in or a hack at the democratic national committee. watergate got its name from a break-in at the democratic national committee when it was located in the watergate office complex. and if we go through what happened in the aftermath and what watergate uncovered, the abuses of power, and we're seeing similar kinds of abuses of power. trump has only been there a short while and is not as experienced as nixon. i fear when he gets more experience it may get worse. >> when you look at the tape, do you remember it vividly? >> don, i remember the testimony, i remember the conversation.
i didn't start meeting with the president until eight months after the arrest. and after he's been re-elected. before that, i had one meeting with halderman on this subject with the president in september. but then he starts calling on me in late february of '73 and we have a number of meetings. and when i think i have his confidence, i try to convince him that we've got to end the cover-up. that's the day i really met richard nixon. he didn't want the cover-up to end because he knew it implicated not only his top aides, but implicated him as well. >> lanny davis, attorney for president trump's long-time attorney michael cohen, he's been telling politico you're reaching out to him regularly. can you tell us anything about those conversations? >> yes, i can. i met lanny during the
clinton/lewinsky proceedings. we worked for another network. we spent a lot of time on the set or green room and got to know each other pretty well. he has a son out here. when he took on as a client michael cohen, he had a number of questions to refresh his recollection he wanted to ask me about and i was willing to share that with him. he didn't indicate to me any of the testimony of his client or where he was going or what his plans were, but i was more than willing to share that history. i'm hopeful somebody like michael cohen can do what i did and explain not only any wrongdoing that was done by trump, but the atmosphere in which it happened. and nixon later said that was my most damning testimony, is when i put it in context. >> huh, interesting. do you see michael cohen as a 2018 version of john dean? because, you know, i'll put it up. this is what he told politico,
basically saying he doesn't want to implicate that michael cohen is involved in the level, as deeply as you are. and he goes on to say that there are similarities. but do you see him as a 2018 version of john dean? >> i don't know. >> or don mcgahn maybe? >> for either one. anyone that's going to follow what i did has to decide in their own mind that they're not going to try to hide their guilt and they're going to explain what they did and why they did it and testify honestly and be prepared to take the punishment. that was the frame of mind i was in when i broke rank. and i also told my bosses exactly what i was going to do and that i would lie for no one. >> lanny davis, cohen's attorney is speaking to you. has don mcgahn ever reached out to you or anyone affiliated with him? >> no, he hasn't. he's the only white house counsel who's followed me, i believe, i have not met. i've never had a conversation with him.
but as reported by "the new york times" in the original piece, he didn't want to have the same fate as my tenure as white house counsel resulted in. and he must -- he must think -- you know, he said he didn't any way implicate or cause any problems for the president in his testimony. that raised a real question in my mind, why was he worried he was going to be charged or scapegoated as the cause of obstruction of justice if he wasn't worried that there was some criminal activity? >> that he would end up being a figure like yourself. anybody else involved in this reach out to you that i failed to mention? >> no, they haven't. and lanny's the only person i really know representing any of these people at all. i have not talked to anybody other than lanny. >> john, we're going to keep you around because of your expertise and your experience with these situations. when we come back, president
trump without irony says he could run robert mueller's investigation, an investigation of his own campaign. what that says about the president's views of his powers, next.
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john dean is back with me. good evening to all of you. so, frank, the president of the united states suggesting he could run an investigation into his own campaign. and it's only monday. welcome to monday. >> yeah, welcome to another week of trump. >> what is he talking about? >> you're asking me to decode donald trump again and that's always a difficult thing. what i think he kind of means is he through a series of events, through a chain of events he could make mueller go away. and i think he means in a kind of uber sense he has authority over the whole thing. but if he thinks he could and should run it, he mistakes the whole investigation. i think basically we have trump just spouting off some more words in frustration and anger impatience for this all to be over. >> susan, a president does have broad powers, but do you think he understands the -- how much power the -- how much executive powers, his own executive powers? >> look, i think that he is threatening the mueller investigation with increasing intensity. you have him for the first time
in his tweets in recent days personally attacking special counsel mueller and calling him disgusting, want just the rigged witch hunt of the investigation, but personally going after him. by the way, he's still going after his own attorney general, jeff sessions. he put quote marks around his so-called justice department in a recent tweet. and i think all of it is a piece in recent days where you really see the president's obsession growing so much with the mueller investigation. perhaps it's his own escalating sense of personal jeopardy. you now have not only the white house counsel we talked about extensively cooperating with the mueller investigation. we don't know what that means, but of course you have his own former personal attorney, michael cohen, in what appears to be in increasingly legal jeopardy. at the same time his former campaign chairman is on trial on multiple charges, both this alexandria case and there's an upcoming court case in
washington, d.c. so you have this encirclement of trump that may be leading to these threats and the investigation. that's the context i look at it in. >> they certainly seem to be coming on a little bit faster and more furious. so, john, i want to get to the president's tweet yesterday where he compared the special counsel investigation to mccarthyism. study the late joseph mccarthy because we're now in a period with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby, rigged witch hupt. someone needs a history lesson. >> i don't think donald trump knows his history very well. this is a real draw to find any comparisons between joseph mccarthy and bob mueller. it just doesn't fit at all. he just -- and his entire defense team, just talks in
nonsequiturs. the business he could run the whole investigation. that is not true. the president does not control a grand jury. a grand jury's an independent body. that grand jury would toss him out if he tried to get in and tell them what to do. >> does the president really want the american people studying mccarthy? frank, i have to ask you because mccarthy was a demagogue, relied on baseless allegations. >> that's a great question. if the american people studied mccarthy, they'd say, wow, he bears a lot of resemblance to president trump. he would hurl accusations without asking questions or facts. mueller would not speak with the press, if anything he's going on forever to make sure he's getting all the facts. the accusations come after the research not before. that's the antonym of mccarthy. >> susan, what do you think? let me ask you about -- because
mccarthy's lawyer is cohen, moved to new york, represented donald trump, more than a decade, trump praised him in his book "art of the deal." if the president thinks mccarthyism is so terrible, why de hire his lawyer? >> well, my guess is that donald trump learned a lot about mccarthyism from roy cohn and he learned the techniques of mccarthyism. in some ways you could argue trump is the most successful demogogue in politics since senator mccarthy. he was once reported to be as close to roy cohn as if roy cohn was a second father to him. we see again and again interestingly with trump this quality of projecting onto others, qualities he himself has. just last week, remember, when he withdrew john brennan's security clearance, the stated reason by the white house was
reckless behavior and essentially indiscriminate public commentary. it really was a great example of this habit of projectionism. and to have donald trump saying, we should study mccarthyism it seems like that is what he, himself, has been doing in this exercise. it's a very elaborate sort of sense inside, once again, donald trump's mind. this twitter feed is going to be studied, i'm convinced, for generations by historians who say we've just never had this unbelievable real-time insight into this complicated and at times even bizarre rantings of the most powerful man in the world. >> it's interesting. i mean, i think if you take -- they should do a trump -- what did you master? what's your major? trumpism. what does that say? projection. i was writing that and susan said it because he projects everything. >> you can go through every single person. you know, lying ted.
well, who lies more than ted cruz, donald trump? crooked hillary. who's more crooked than hillary? donald trump. it's almost like he's seeing versions of himself and is attacking them. >> what about that, john. his tweeter feed will be studied especially as it relates to this case. >> i think it will be. in fact, i understand it's been considered as part of his presidential record, and they'll be considered presidential documents, no less. this may be the core of his presidential library, which will be on the top floor of a casino. >> a library of tweets. >> wow. wow, john, that was good. >> more seriously -- >> go on susan. >> well, i was just going to say they've actually said that these are going to be evidence that the mueller prosecution team is looking at, and, you know, that we think of it as insight into his mind but it's also, you know, potentially evidence in a
criminal obstruction proceeding. >> susan, i want to ask you about this again. the president also told reuters tonight he would consider lifting sanctions on moscow if russia cooperates with u.s. on ukraine, on syria. is there any scenario where you would consider lifting sanctions on russia is a good idea? >> well, don, thank you so much for bringing that up because i did think that was a very interesting argument. once again you have this head-snapping confusion and what exactly is the trump administration's policy? on the one hand they're bragging about the tough series of sanctions and the fact that the administration has enacted a series of tough measures. on the other hand, you have trump who doesn't seem to be on board with it. still, in the immediate aftermath of the helsinki meeting to suggest vague notions of what cooperation on syria would be. again, the sanctions were imposed because of russia's illegal annexation of cry mere yeah.
the first illegal takeover territory in europe since world war ii. russia is not backing away from that and trump appears to be de facto accepting the takeover of crimea any time he uses sanctions as a bargaining chip. if he says, can you do something else and get the sanctions lifted. that would be basically exactly opposite to the policy that the entire rest of the american government is following right now. i thought it was a very significant statement in that interview. >> quickly, frank, before i let you go, he also said -- the president also said he would consider meeting again with kim jong-un because he said some great things are coming out of north korea. is he getting played here? >> which great things are coming out? ever since that meeting we keep hearing -- >> the quote is, a lot of good things are happening with north korea. >> that's not what the reporting has been. that's not what people in his own administration have been telling journalists. >> appreciate it all. when we come back, a president compliments a border patrol agent who saves 75 lives
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even need to say that this man speaks english? >> i mean, for one, he couldn't pronounce the guy's last night. he has a spanish surname. and i think it's obvious. he made an assumption on the way the guy looked and he couldn't pronounce the last name, he said, what a surprise, he speaks english. so this is some drive-by casual racism. >> steve, you don't believe. >> no, i don't. i think what you're revealing is you are as humorless as you are biased against this president. you see racism there because you want to see racism. you've come up with the conclusion first that he's a racist and now you'll search for evidence. it was very obvious to me that that was an endearing and whimsical moment. of course the president knows he speaks english. he's a federal u.s. agent. of course he speaks english. >> why would he say it. >> he's trying -- >> why would he say it? >> he's making a joke to put the man at ease because he didn't
know he would be coming to the podium and speaking before a national audience. >> why would he say that never -- we call someone a racist and look for evidence. come on. >> it's funny, don. >> you know that's not true. >> it would be funny if he said it -- i do know it's true. it would be funny if he said it to me. tvs endearing -- >> if someone is called up to the podium for a special moment, that kind of ruins it, doesn't it. >> hold on, let's hear about the moment and then we'll talk about it. here's the moment. >> i went out there and i ran the dog -- conducted a nonintrusive search of the vehicle, the tractor/trailer and once again the k-9 alerted. subsequently i opened the latch of the back of the tractor/trailer and revealed a lot of subjects. i quickly asked for backup.
backup got there and the subjects were transported back to transport -- back to the checkpoint and all of them were in good health. >> wow. well, he seems like he did a really good job there of explaining what happened. didn't seem that nervous to me. so, this man saved 78 lives. and that story is getting lost because the president made assumptions about how he looks. listen, i hear what you're saying, steve. a lot of people go to the white house. he's called people up. people have spoken. do you remember him ever saying, oh, this person speaks english perfectly? >> no, i don't think he said that before. but, look, i'm glad you got to the meat of why this man was there. this hero. these people, and the majority of them, by the way, the majority of border patrol agents are hispanic. our mainstream media tries to push this narrative that they're racist thugs pa rasing brown people -- >> come on,s steve.
that is not true. that is not true. >> let me go on record. in is a great event for the president. steve, let me just get this in. do the man the honor who served our country in terrible, rough conditions to learn his name and maybe give him a heads up if you're going to have him speak. no one should be put in that position to be called up to the podium on the fly. i mean, come on. >> the president does this all the time. he's not trying to be mean to anybody. he regularly calls people who don't think they're going to. it is true, don, people vilify border patrol and -- >> you said mainstream media vilifies border patrol. that's simply not true. >> really? how about michael hayden tweeting out a picture of auschwitz and comparing our border patrol and i.c.e. agents -- >> what was the context of that? what was the context of that? >> it was illegal border crossings by people with children. >> families -- >> families that were being put
in cages or separated at the border. no one said that -- no one talked about the ethnicity of the border patrol agents. no one said they were awful because they're hispanic or white. >> really? yes, they have, don. >> you talk about one person -- >> yes, they have. i can tell you about it. >> you talk about one person in the media -- i have not seen the mainstream media writ large do that. you made that up. >> i did not make it up. you do it on your show almost every night you call the president a racist. every viewer knows it does. speaking of i.c.e. specifically, i wrote an article -- >> i'm not going to let you get away with that. because what you said is just not true. >> you call him a racist every night. >> would you like me to go through the evidence about his racism that you seem to -- you can't see because you have these trump blinders on because you have trump de rangement blinders on? >> i don't have blinders on. >> you can't see? would you like me to start back
in the '70s with housing discrimination? want me to start with the central park five? what he said about me? what he said did lebron james? what he said about maxine waters? what he said about black people and policies and how he's kicking people off certain programs that has to do with health care, affecting blacks and poor people? you want to talk about how he has no african-americans, no black people who work for him in the west wing? he has no black advisers? would you like me to continue and go on about his racism? >> don, no, because, by the way, none of that is proof he's a racist. i have told you the west wing should have more diverse representation. i'm not a -- >> when you say something completely wrong and you have no evidence to back it up, i have to say so on the air. you have no evidence to back up the mainstream media is somehow vilifying border patrol agents and people who work on the border. that's not true.
>> you don't consider hayden one mainstream media -- >> i don't know the context of his text. that's one person. to say all of mainstream media vilifies those who work on the border is completely false. that's something you would hear on the trump news network. not on this network and i haven't heard it on any other network. >> i don't agree. we can go to elected officials. >> that's not what you said. >> how about the mayor of new york city -- >> that's not what you said. that's not what we're talking about. >> we don't want to debate that both point all night. i'm not conceding that. i think mainstream media demonizes i.c.e. let's give you an example from yesterday -- >> no, let's not because we are supposed to be talking about adrian -- >> i'm about to give you evidence. >> because you don't have evidence. >> mainstream media -- >> i have to go. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. fidelity is redefining value for investors.
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all right i'm back now. i have to get to the break. amanda, we're go let you talk the president has tweeted 67 times alone. >> they're very worried and desperate to convince people -- you can't trust anything the investigators find and i think it's important we remember what the focus of this investigation is because it's really very clear. did the trump campaign conspire with russians to use stolen information election? that's it. it's very clear. how did the trump tower meeting
happen? why was donald trump calling on the russians to openly get into hillary clinton's emails during the democratic convention? i think as long as we keep things very simple and knowing what this is about, you can see how much president trump is trying to muddy the waters. >> the former bush advisor points out that al gore's campaign resaoebed a stolen bush debate book and that came from texas, not a foreign adversary. so rudy giuliani saying this normal, that's wrong. >> that was a mistake. it was clearly a mistake. thankfully nothing nefarious came out off it but they shouldn't have had the meeting in the first place. and you know what else shouldn't
have happened? hillary and the dnc shouldn't have been using russian intelligence to come up with a phoney dossier. >> you know that was started by republicans -- >> in the beginning, you're right. but that was very early on and the vast majority of both time and money was by the democrats. >> but started by the republicans and continues on with hillary clinton after marco rubio didn't get the nomination. >> that's correct. >> watching him contort himself and going into clean up mode is mystifying. when you watch rudy giuliani, you have to ask yourself is he blindly lying when he goes on tv or does he know-nothing about the case? he told chuck todd there was no way don jr. knew he was meeting
wi with russians. that's baloney. he said twice he wanted to meet russian interpreters. the translator should have been a clue. >> i mean, come on. >> listen, again, i'm not defending the meeting. quite the opposite. nothing came out of the meeting and i believe the president when he tells me that he didn't know about it. so the fact that don jr. and jared had a foolish meeting to me is irrelevant to the president's culpability and certainly any legal jeopardy for the president in this matter. >> it's still illegal though? >> the russians did commit crimes. the question is what do the trump campaign know about these crimes --
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A recap of the day's news.
truth is a choose your own adventure kind of thing because he can't explain away the following fracts. so listen, write dedown if you have a pen, if you have your phone on record it. so the white house counsel don mcgahn sat down for 30 hours of interviews with robert mueller's team and the white house doesn't know exact lewhat he said. the fact that in a matter of days the president's former attorney and so-called fixer michael cohen could face criminal charges related to possible fraud and campaign finance violations. the fact that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort is on trial on charges that could land him behind bars for the rest of his life if convicted, and the fact that so far the special counsel robert mueller has brought a total of 191 criminal charges against 35 defendants. there have been five guilty pleas. those are the facts. that is truth. and the president cannot
distract and deflect from that. facts matter. now i want to bring in a man who knows exactly what can happen when a president doesn't want you to tell the truth. cnn contributor john dean was nixon white house counsel. he joins us now. thank you so much. >> thank you, don. >> so the president called you a rat in a tweet today. >> the current president. >> yeah, so if he is watching right now and he know he likes to watch, how would you like to respond? >> i tweeted back to him that first i didn't think he really understood what mcgahn had done or had not done. that became even more evident 48 hours after his initial tweet, he didn't have a clue what mcgahn had done and began worrying about it. i'd also tell him i did not go to the prosecutors and testify without telling nixon i was
doing so. in fact i listened to a tape yesterday where john erlicman, my predecessor of white house counsel, nixon's top advisor told the president i was visiting with prosecutors and he was suggesting it was the smartest thing in the world for me to do and give an appearance of cooperation. well, i didn't just give an appearance. i guantanacooperated. >> just so we get the facts right he tweeted you yesterday. i think i may have said it today, but it was yesterday. white house counsel don mcgahn was giving hours of testimony to special counsel, he must be a john dean-type rat. rat in all caps. but i allowed him and all others to testify. i didn't have to. i have nothing to hide. so, john, the president of the united states is calling you a rat. you're a guy -- by the way on the same day his wife is saying you shouldn't be a bully on
social media -- you're the guy who told the truth about the tapes and, you know, inthey ever come out. what does that say about the president's frame of mind? >> well, it's more like a mob boss talking than a president of the united states. and that seems to be where his head is and the way he thinks and the kind of loyalty he demands is not typically what a president demands but what a mob boss dmtsds. me complains about the handling of the russia investigation. >> sources are telling cnn, john, the president is unnerved by the special counsel and he didn't realize the full extent of their talks. he should be, shouldn't he? >> he should be. and that was one of my tweets back to him. and the reason he should be
concerned even mcgahn's lawyer has assured them mcgahn did not incriminate the president, who knows what incriminates him. and i'm sure they didn't put out a hard line on purpose so the man can keep his job and do the work he wants to do. but, yes, he's a very important witness. his testimony is almost contemporaneous with the events, and 30 hours is a lot of time to spend with prosecutors. >> just to be clear about what you said sources telling cnn mcgahn did not provide incriminating evidence to the special counsel. again, that's according to "the washington post." it's only this past weekend that mcgahn's attorneys told the president's attorneys he doesn't think he implicated the president. but isn't a major failure on the part of the president's attorneys they weren't fully debriefed about the extent of these interviews? >> well, it's kind of typical of the trump white house operation, where they seem to botch and
mess up everything. normally that would have been the case. they would have said what do you have to say before he went over and heard his story, and then they would have debriefed him when he came back. that didn't happen. >> you know what you said since this has been going really since he took office, that this president thinks that the white house counsel works for him personally, and that's not so, right? do you think it's finally clicking to the president that don mcgahn doesn't represent donald trump the individual but instead represents the office of the president? >> it might be starting to click if that's the case. this is one of the positive post-watergate developments where the american bar association looked at all these situations particularly those that arose during watergate and sorted it out and came up with rules on representation of organizations. it's rule 1.13, and that makes
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john dean is back with me. he has a little experience, a little experience with these kinds of issues. so john, there's also this eye-catching headline coming out of president trump's interview with reuters. he says speaking with mueller's team could be a perjury trap. what's your take? >> well, they are redefining a perjury trap by just being two differing bn differing witnesses and who are you going to believe? really a perjury situation is where a prosecutor has no other charge and just keeps drilling them until they can find an error on their testimony and uses that. this is not that situation at all. >> this is from your senate testimony 1973. watch. >> what i had hoped to do in this conversation was to have the president tell me we had to
end the matter now. accordingly i gave considerable thought to how i would present this situation to the president and try to make as dramatic a presentation as i could to tell him how serious i thought the situation was that the cover-up continue. i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed the president himself would be killed by it. >> a lot of people, john, are looking back on your role in history. what parallels do you see now? >> well, we certainly have many echoes. we have parallels in the russia investigation, starting with a break in or a hack at the democratic national committee. watergate got its name from a break in at the democratic national committee when it was located in the watergate office complex. and if we go through what happened in the aftermath and what watergate uncovered, the abuses of power and we're seeing
similar kinds of abuses of power. trump has only been there a short while and is as not as experienced as nixon. i fear when he gets more experience it may get worse. >> when you look at the tape, do you remember it vividly? >> don, i remember the testimony, i remember the conversation. i didn't start meeting with the president until eight months after the arrest. and after he's been reelected, before that i had one meeting with halderman on this subject with the president in september. but then he starts calling on me in late february of '73 and we have a number of meetings. and when i think i have his confidence i try to convince him that we've got to end the cover-up. that's the day i really met richard nixon. he didn't want the cover-up to end because he knew it implicated not only his top aides but implicated him as
well. >> lanny davis, attorney for long time trump attorney cohen, he's been reaching out to you regularly. can you tell us anything about those conversations? >> yes, i can. i met lanny during the clinton-lieu wclinton, lieu w ruwinsky proceedings. when he took on as a client michael cohen he had a number of question to refresh his recollection he wanted to ask me about. and i was willing to share that with him. he didn't indicate to me any of the testimony of his client or where he was going or what his plans were, but i was more than willing to share that history. i'm hopeful someone like michael cohen can do what i did and explain not only any wrongdoing
that was done by trump but the atmosphere in which it happened. and nixon later said that was moy most damning testimony was when i put it in context. >> huh, interesting. do you see michael cohen as a 2018 version of john dean? i'll put it up. this is what he told politico basically saying he doesn't want to implicate michael cohen is involved n level as deeply as you are. and it goes onto say there are similarities. but do you see him as a 2018 version of john dean. >> i don't know. >> or don mcgahn maybe? >> for either one. anyone that's going to follow what i did has to skied in their own mind that they're not going to try to hide their guilt and they're going to explain what they did and why they did it and testify honestly to be prepared to take the punishment. that was the frame of mind i was in when i broke rank. and i also told my bosses exactly what i was going to do
and that i would lie for no one. >> lanny davis, cohen's attorney is speaking to you. has don mcgahn ever reached out to you or anyone affiliated with him in. >> he's the only white house counsel who's followed me i believe i have not met. i've never had a conversation with him, but as reported by "the new york times" in the original piece he didn't want to have the same faith as my tenure to the white house counsel was to them. he must think -- he said he didn't in any way implicate or cause any problems for the president in his testimony. that raised a real question in my mind, why was he worried he was going to be charged or scapegoated as the cause of obstruction of justice, if he wasn't worried there was some criminal activity. >> anybody else involved in this
reach out to you that i failed to mention? >> no, they haven't. i think lanny is the only person i really know representing any of these people at all. i have not talked to anybody other than lanny. >> john, we're going to keep you around because you have expertise and experience with these situations. when we come back president trump without ironing says he could run mueller's investigation, an investigation of his own campaign. what that says of the president's views of his powers next. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer.
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president trump on special counsel mueller's investigation. trump telling reuters tonight i decided to stay out of the mueller investigation when i don't have to stay out. i can go in and i could do whatever. i could run it if i want. john dean is back with me also staff writer for new yorker and cnn contributor frank bruiny of "the new york times." good evening to all of you. so, frank, the president of the united states suggesting he could run an investigation into his own campaign. and it's only monday. welcome to monday. what's he talking about? >> you're asking me to decode donald trump again, and that's always a difficult thing. what i think he kind of means is he through a series of events, through a chain of events he could make mueller go away. and i think he means in a kind of uber sense he has authority over the whole thing. i think basically we have trump just spouting off some more words in frustration and anger impatience for this all to be over.
>> susan, a president does have broad powers, but do you think he understands the -- how much power the -- how much executive powers, his own executive powers? >> look, i think that he is threatening the mueller investigation with increasing intensity. you have him for the first time in tweets in recent days personally attacking special counsel mueller and calling him disgusting not just the rigged witch hunt investigation, going after him personally. and he's still going after his attorney general jeff sessions. i think all of it is a piece in recent days where you really see the president's obsession growing so much with the mueller investigation. perhaps it's his own escalating sense of personal jeopardy. you now have not only the white house counsel we talked about extensively cooperating with mueller investigation. we don't know what that means,
but of course you have his own former personal attorney michael cohen in what appears to be increasing legal jeopardy. at the same time his former campaign chairman is on trial on multiple charges, both this alexandria case and there's an upcoming case in washington, d.c. that's the context i look at it. >> they certainly seem to be coming on a little bit faster and more furious. so john, i want to get to the president's tweet yesterday where he compared the special counsel investigation to mccarthyism. study the late joseph mccarthy because we're now in a period that make with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby, rigged witch hunt. >> i don't think donald trump
kn knows his history very well. this is real draw to find any comparisons between joseph mccarthy and bob mueller. it just doesn't fit at all, and his entire defense team -- i just talked to non sequiturs, the business he could run the investigation, that's not true. the president does not control a grand jury. a grand jury is an independent body. and that grand jury would toss him out if he tried to get in and tell them what to do. >> does the president really want the american people study mccarthy? joseph mccarthy was a demagogue. he relied on baseless accusations. >> if the american people studied mccarthy they'd say, wow, he bears a lot of resemblance to president trump. he would hurl accusations
without any questions or facts. mueller would not speak with the press, if anything he's going on forever to make sure he's getting all the facts. the accusations come after the research not before. that's the antonym of mccarthy. >> he said tough as he was he always had a lot of friends and i'm not embarrassed to say i was one. why did he hire his lawyer. >> my guess is donald trump learned a lot about mccarthyism from roy cohn and he learned the techniques of mccarthyism. in some ways you could argue trump is the most successful demagogue in politics since senator mccarthy. he was once reported to be as
close to roy cohn as if roy cohn was a second father to him. we see again and again interestingly with trump this quality of projecting onto others, qualities he himself has. remember just last week when he withdrew brennen's security clearance the stated reason by the white house was reckless behavior and indiscriminate public commentary. to have trump saying we should study mccarthyism it seems that's what he simself has been doing in these exercises. it's a very elaborate n sense inside trump's mind. this twitter feed is going to be studied i'm convinced by historians for generations who say we just never had this unbelievable realtime insight into this complicated and even bizarre rantings of the most powerful man in the world.
>> i think if you -- you should probably do like a trump what did you mast in, what's your major, trumpism? what does that say? projection. i was writing that and susan said it because he projects everything. >> you can go through every single person. lying ted, crooked hillary, who's more crooked than hillary. >> donald trump. >> it's almost like he's seeing version of himself and attacking them, you know? >> what about that, john. his tweeter feed will be studied especially as it relates to this case. >> i think it will be. in fact, i understand it's been considered as part of his presidential record, and they'll be considered presidential documents, no less. this may be the core of his presidential library, which will be on the top floor of a casino. >> a library of tweets. >> wow. wow, john, that was good.
>> more seriously -- >> go on susan. >> well, i was just going to say they've actually said that these are going to be evidence that the mueller prosecution team is looking at, and, you know, that we think of it as insight into his mind but it's also, you know, potentially evidence in a criminal obstruction proceeding. >> susan, i want to ask you about this again the president told reuters tonight he would consider lifting sanctions on moskow if russia cooperates with the u.s. on ukraine, on syria. is there any scenario where you would consider lifting sanctions on russia is a good idea? >> well, don, thank you so much for bringing that up because i did think that was a very interesting argument. once again you have this head snapping confusion in what exactly is the trump administration's policy. on the one hand they're bragging about the tough series of sanctions and the fact that the administration has enacted a
series of tough measures. on the other hand you have trump who doesn't seem to be onboard with it. still in the immediate aftermath of the helsinki meeting to suggest what vague notions of cooperation would be. russia is not backing away from that and trump appears to be de facto accepting the russian take over of crimea anytime he's using sanctions as a bargaining chip, right. when he says you can do something else and get the sanctions lifted. that would be basically exactly opposite of the policy the entire rest of america is following right now. >> quickly, frank, before i let you go the president also said he would consider meeting again with kim jong-un because he said some great things are coming out of north korea. is he getting played here in. >> which great things. ever since that meeting we keep
hearing -- >> the quote is a lot of good things are happening with north korea. >> well, that's not what the reporting has been and people in his own administration have been telling journalists. when we come back, this is awkward. the president compliments a border patrol agent who saved 78 lives just last week for speaking english, perfect english. really, why is he surprised by that? what does help for heart fait looks like this. entresto is a heart failure pill that helped keep people alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant;
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former communications director for ted cruz. she's the author of "gaslighting america, why we love it why trump lies to us." they speak english perfectly. amanda, why does president trump even need to say that this man speaks english? >> i mean, for one we couldn't pronounce the guy's last name, which was he has a spanish surname. and i think it's obvious he made an assumption on the way the guy looked and the last name he couldn't pronounce and he said what a surprise, he speaks english. so this is some drive-by casual racism. >> steve, you believe it doesn't. >> no, i don't. i think what you're revealing is you are as humorless as you are biased against this president. you come up with the conclusion first he's a racist and now %-p
was an endearing and whimsical moment. of course the president knows he speaks english, he's an u.s. agent. >> why would he never have said that about anybody else and we call someone a racist and look for evidence, steve. come on, you know that's not true. >> show some humor. i do know it's true. it would be funny if he said it to me. it's an endearing comment. >> -- for a special moment that kind of ruins it, don't you think? >> hold on. let's hear about the moment and we'll talk about it. here's the moment. >> i went out there and conducted the search and once again the k-9 alerted and
subsequently i opened the latch of the back of the tractor-trailer and heard a lot of subjects. i quickly asked for backup, and backup got there, and the subjects were transported back to the -- transported back to the checkpoint andlife all of t were in good health. >> wow, it seems he good a good job thereof explaining what happened. didn't seem that nervous to me. so this man saved 78 lives and that story is getting lost because the president made assumptions about how he looks. listen, i hear what you're saying, steve. a lot of people go to the white house, he's called people up, people have spoken. do you remember ever hearing him say oh, this person speaks english perfectly? >> no, i don't think he said that before. but i'm glad, too, that you got to meat of why this man was there, this hero was there. these people, and the majority
of border patrol agents are hispanic. so the media tries to push this narrative they're a bunch of racist people harassing brown people -- >> come on, steve. that is not true. >> let me go on record, this was a great event for the president. steve, let me just get this in. do the man the honor who serves our country in terrible rough conditions to learn his name and maybe give him a heads up if you're going to have him speak. no one should be put in that position to be called up to the podium on the fly. i mean come on. >> the president does this all the time. he's not trying to be mean to anyone. don, it is true, by the way, people vilify border patrol and vilify i.c.e. -- >> you said the main stream media vilify border patrol. that is simply not true. >> really? how about michael hayden tweeting out a picture of auschwitz and comparing our border patrol and i.c.e. agents to the nazi ss.
>> what the context of it? what was the context of it? >> the context of it was illegal border crossings of people with children. >> that were the families being put in cages and separated at the border. no one has said that or talked about the ethnicity of the border patrol agents or said they were hispanic or white. >> yes they have, don. >> you're talking about one person. i've not seen the main stream media writ large do that. >> almost every night you call the president a racist. don't tell me this doesn't happen. everyone knows it does. and speaking of i.c.e. -- >> i'm not going to let you get away with that because what you said is just not true. >> don, you call him a racist
every night. >> well, would you like me to go through the evidence of his racism that you can't see because you have the trump derangement blinders on? you can't see? would you like me to start back in the '70s with the housing discrimination, central park five, what he said about me, what he said about lebron james, maxine waters, what he said about black people, talking about his policies, how he's kicking people off certain programs that have to do with health care and that affects blacks and poor peel. you want to talk about how he has no african-american, no black people who works for him in the west wing, he has no black advisers? would you like me to continue and go on about his racism? >> no, because none of that is proof he's a racist. and i've told you i agree the west wing should have more diverse representation. >> when you say something, steve -- i understand that. but when you say something
completely wrong and you have no evidence to back it up, you have no evidence to back up that the mainstream media is somehow vilifying border patrol agents and people who work on the border. that is simply not true. >> you don't consider hayden part of mainstream media? >> i don't know the context of his tweet, but that's one person. to say all of mainstream media is vilifying people who work on border is just completely false. it's something you would hear on the trump news network. i haven't heard it on any other network. >> i can also go to elected officials. >> that's not what you said. and that's what we're talking about. >> we don't want to debate that point all night, and i'm not conceding that point at all. let me give you an example from just yesterday or -- >> let's not, please. because we were supposed to be talking about adrian -- which is
his last name. you don't have evidence. i've got to go. we'll be right back. crabfest is back at red lobster, with our largest variety of crab all year! like new crabfest combo. your one chance to have new jumbo snow crab with tender dungeness crab. or try crab lover's dream. but hurry in. 'cause crabfest ends september 2nd.
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did the trump campaign conspire with the russians to use stolen information in the election. that's it. you ask simple questions, how did the trump tower meeting happen. why was donald trump calling on the russians to openly get into hillary's e-mails during the democratic convention. why did you lie about all these other meetings. i think as long as we keep things simple and knowing what this is about, can you see how much president trump is trying to muddy the waters. >> the former bush adviser points out that al gore's 2000 campaign received a stolen bush debate book, but they turned it over to the fbi. that information came from texas, not a foreign adversary. rudy giuliani saying people do this all the time is wrong. this is not a normal practice in politics, is it? >> i don't know whether it was or not. i think it was a mistake. the meeting that they had was clearly a mistake.
thankfully nothing nefarious came out of it, because there was nothing exchanged. at the same time, you know what else shouldn't have hand? hillary and the dnc shouldn't have been playing fusion gps to come up with a phony dossier. >> you know that was started by republicans, right? >> in the beginning, yes. you're right that was very early on, and the vast majority of the time and money was dedicated by the democrats not the republicans. >> it was started by republicans and continued on by hillary clinton. >> it's funny, to watch rudy giuliani contort himself is mystifying, when you watch him, you have to ask yourself, is he blindly lying when he goes on tv? or does he actually know nothing
about the case? he went on television and told chuck todd there was no way don junior knew he was meeting with russians. that is a lie. you know what else? they had a russian translator in the meeting. if that didn't tell you were talking to the russians, the translator sitting there should have been a clue. >> if vessshe didn't tell you - >> nothing came out of the meeting and i believe the president when he tells me he didn't know anything about it. the fact that don junior and jared had a foolish meet iing. >> it's still illegal, though. >> i will say, what mueller's
first indictment showed is that the russians did commits. what did the trump campaign know about those crimes, did they sift with it, and did they bring additional charges. >> i have to go. i'm up against the clock. it's always fun with you guys. when we come back, no doubt about it, the president is agitated, how worried should he be that his own white house council spoke to robert mueller's team for 30 hours or more? that's on top of the other allegations swirling around him. vegas suite? because hotels.com lets me do me. who wants to floss me? hotels.com. you do you and get rewarded. ♪ ♪ they're the moderne stone age family. ♪ ♪ from the town of bedrock. ♪ meet george jetson. ♪
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