A recap of the day's news.
mr. trump, helped along by aras and amon. it's clear from the very beginning the information being offered to the trump campaign was coming from russia. and it was clear that the information being offered was dirt on clinton. it's the first thing they said. despite trump junior's initial claim the meeting was about the adoption of russian children. that claim coming in a statement we later learned was dictated by president trump himself. after white house press secretary sarah sanders claimed he didn't. how did we learn about the president's statements? well, his own attorneys acknowledge it in a letter to robert mueller in january. it's all right there in front of your face. it's all in writing. this is an administration that has tried to distract and deflect from the facts literally from day one when then press secretary sean spicer, remember, tried to claim that president
trump's inauguration crowd was the largest ever. and kellyanne conway doubled down on this classic alternative facts. >> you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer, our press secretary gave alternative facts. >> you can't make this -- you can't make this stuff up. almost said it. then there's this from one of president trump's attorneys, jay sekulow, claiming that facts develop. >> so i think it's very important to point out that in a situation like this, you have over time facts develop. >> excuse me. and president trump himself trying to tell you not to believe what you see with your own eyes. >> just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening.
in a matter of day the president's former attorney, so-called fixer, michael cohen, could face criminal charges related to possible fraud and campaign finance violations. the fact that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort is on trial on charges that could land him behind bars for the rest of his life if convicted. and the fact that, so far, the special counsel, robert mueller, has brought a total of 191 criminal charges against 35 defendants. there have been five guilty pleas. those are the facts. that is truth. and the president cannot distract and deflect from that. facts matter. now i want to bring in a man who knows exactly what can happen when a president doesn't want you to tell the truth. cnn contributor john dean was nixon white house counsel. he joins us now. thank you so much. good evening to you. >> thank you, don. >> so the president called you a rat in a tweet today.
if the president -- >> the current president. >> yeah, the current president. so, if he is watching right now, and we know he likes to watch, how would you like to respond to him? >> i tweeted back to him that, first, i didn't think he really understood what mcgahn had done or not done. that became even more evident 48 hours after his initial tweet, that he diplomat have a clue what mcgahn had done and they began worrying about it. i'd also tell him that i did not go to the prosecutors and testify without telling nixon i was doing so. in fact, i listened to a tape yesterday where i'm talking -- john erlichman, my predecessor as white house counsel, nixon's top adviser, told the president that i was visiting with the prosecutors and he was suggesting it was the smartest thing in the world for me to do and give an appearance of cooperation. well, i didn't just give an
appearance. i cooperated. >> just so we get the facts right, he tweeted you yesterday. i think i may have said today, but it was yesterday. he said, the failing "new york times" wrote a fake piece saying white house counsel done mcgahn was giving hours of testimony to a special counsel, he must be a john dean type rat. rat in all taps. but i allowed him and all others to testify. i didn't have to. i have nothing to hide. so, john, the president of the united states is calling you a rat. you're the guy -- by the way, on the same day his wife was saying you shouldn't be a bully on social media, on the internet. you're the guy who told the truth about the tapes, you know, if they ever come out. what does that say about the president's frame of mind? >> well, it's more like a mob boss talking than a president of the united states. and that seems to be where his head is and the way he thinks and the kind of loyalty he
demands is not what a president typically demands but what a mob boss demands. he's complained about the way he's being handled with the russian investigation. well, i think the investigator has figured out, they may be dealing with a mobster type president. >> yeah. you know, sources are telling cnn, john, the president is unnerved by mcgahn's 30 hours with the special counsel and that he didn't realize the full extent of their talks. he should be unsettled, shouldn't he? >> he should be. and that was one of my lines in my tweets pack to him. but the reason he should be concerned, even though apparently mcgahn's lawyer has assured them that they -- that mcgahn did not incriminate the president, who knows what incriminates him? and i'm sure they didn't put out a hard line on purpose so the man can keep his job and do the work he wants to do. but, yes, he's a very important witness. his testimony is almost contemporaneous with the events,
and 30 hours is a lot of time to spend with prosecutors. >> just to be clear about what you said, and just then, john, sources telling cnn that mcgahn didn't provide any incriminating evidence to the special counsel. again, that's according to "the washington post." it's only this past weekend that mcgahn's attorneys told the president's attorneys that he doesn't think he implicated the president. but isn't it a major failure on the part of the president's attorneys that they weren't fully debriefed about the extent of these interviewed? >> well, it's kind of typical of the trump white house operation, where they seem to botch and mess up everything. normally that would have been the case. they would have said, what do you have to say, before he went over and heard his story, and then they would have debriefed him when he came back. that didn't happen. >> up, we said -- since this has been going since he took office,
that this president thinks the white house counsel works for him personally, and that's not so, right? do you think it's finally clicking to the president that don mcgahn doesn't represent donald trump, the individual, but instead represents the office of the president? >> it might be starting to click, if that's the case. this is one of the positive post-watergate developments where the american bar association looked at all these situations, particularly those that arose during watergate, and sorted it out and came up with rules on representation of organizations. it's rule 1.13, and that makes it very clear that mcgahn's client is not donald trump. it's the office of the president. >> you know, i've asked you about this before, is history repeating itself. you said history didn't repeat itself but it often rhymes. i want you to stick around. when we come back, i want to
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and i'm the founder of ugmonk. before shipstation it was crazy. it's great when you see a hundred orders come in, a hundred orders come in, but then you realize i've got a hundred orders i have to ship out. shipstation streamlined that wh the order data, the weights of , everything is seamlessly put into shipstation, so when we print the shipping ll everything's pretty much done. it's so much easier so now, we're ready, bring on t. shipstation. the number one ch of online sellers. go to shipstation.com/tv and get two months free. john dean is back with me. he knows about these. he has a little experience, a little experience with these kinds of issues. so, john, there's also this eye-catching headline coming out of president trump's interview with reuters. he says speaking with mueller's team could be a perjury trap.
what's your take? >> well, they are redefining a perjury trap by just being two differing witnesses and who are you going to believe? really a perjury trap is a situation where a prosecutor has no other charge to make against the person and brings them in and just keeps drilling them until they can find an error in their testimony and then use that. this is not that situation at all. >> i want to play something. this is from your senate testimony, 1973. watch. >> what i had hoped to do in this conversation was to have the president tell me we had to end the matter now. accordingly i gave considerable thought to how i would present this situation to the president and try to make as dramatic a presentation as i could to tell him how serious i thought the situation was that the cover-up continue. i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing
on the presidency, and if the cancer was not removed the president himself would be killed by it. >> a lot of people, john, are looking back on your role in history. what parallels do you see now? >> well, we certainly have many echoes. we have parallels in the russia investigation starts with a break-in or a hack at the democratic national committee. watergate got its name from a break-in at the democratic national committee when it was located in the watergate office complex. and if we go through what happened in the aftermath and what watergate uncovered, the abuses of power, and we're seeing similar kinds of abuses of power. trump has only been there a short while and is not as experienced as nixon. i fear when he gets more experience it may get worse. >> when you look at the tape, do you remember it vividly? >> don, i remember the testimony, i remember the conversation.
i didn't start meeting with the president until eight months after the arrest. and after he's been re-elected. before that, i had one meeting with halderman on this subject with the president in september. but then he starts calling on me in late february of '73 and we have a number of meetings. and when i think i have his confidence, i try to convince him that we've got to end the cover-up. that's the day i really met richard nixon. he didn't want the cover-up to end because he knew it implicated not only his top aides, but implicated him as well. >> lanny davis, attorney for president trump's long-time attorney michael cohen, he's been telling politico you're reaching out to him regularly. can you tell us anything about those conversations? >> yes, i can. i met lanny during the
clinton/lewinsky proceedings. we worked for another network. we spent a lot of time on the set or green room and got to know each other pretty well. he has a son out here. when he took on as a client michael cohen, he had a number of questions to refresh his recollection he wanted to ask me about and i was willing to share that with him. he didn't indicate to me any of the testimony of his client or where he was going or what his plans were, but i was more than willing to share that history. i'm hopeful somebody like michael cohen can do what i did and explain not only any wrongdoing that was done by trump, but the atmosphere in which it happened. and nixon later said that was my most damning testimony, is when i put it in context. >> huh, interesting. do you see michael cohen as a 2018 version of john dean? because, you know, i'll put it up. this is what he told politico,
basically saying he doesn't want to implicate that michael cohen is involved in the level, as deeply as you are. and he goes on to say that there are similarities. but do you see him as a 2018 version of john dean? >> i don't know. >> or don mcgahn maybe? >> for either one. anyone that's going to follow what i did has to decide in their own mind that they're not going to try to hide their guilt and they're going to explain what they did and why they did it and testify honestly and be prepared to take the punishment. that was the frame of mind i was in when i broke rank. and i also told my bosses exactly what i was going to do and that i would lie for no one. >> lanny davis, cohen's attorney is speaking to you. has don mcgahn ever reached out to you or anyone affiliated with him? >> no, he hasn't. he's the only white house counsel who's followed me, i believe, i have not met. i've never had a conversation with him.
but as reported by "the new york times" in the original piece, he didn't want to have the same fate as my tenure as white house counsel resulted in. and he must -- he must think -- you know, he said he didn't any way implicate or cause any problems for the president in his testimony. that raised a real question in my mind, why was he worried he was going to be charged or scapegoated as the cause of obstruction of justice if he wasn't worried that there was some criminal activity? >> that he would end up being a figure like yourself. anybody else involved in this reach out to you that i failed to mention? >> no, they haven't. and lanny's the only person i really know representing any of these people at all. i have not talked to anybody other than lanny. >> john, we're going to keep you around because of your expertise and your experience with these situations. when we come back, president
trump without irony says he could run robert mueller's investigation, an investigation of his own campaign. what that says about the president's views of his powers, next.
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john dean is back with me. good evening to all of you. so, frank, the president of the united states suggesting he could run an investigation into his own campaign. and it's only monday. welcome to monday. >> yeah, welcome to another week of trump. >> what is he talking about? >> you're asking me to decode donald trump again and that's always a difficult thing. what i think he kind of means is he through a series of events, through a chain of events he could make mueller go away. and i think he means in a kind of uber sense he has authority over the whole thing. but if he thinks he could and should run it, he mistakes the whole investigation. i think basically we have trump just spouting off some more words in frustration and anger impatience for this all to be over. >> susan, a president does have broad powers, but do you think he understands the -- how much power the -- how much executive powers, his own executive powers? >> look, i think that he is threatening the mueller investigation with increasing intensity. you have him for the first time
in his tweets in recent days personally attacking special counsel mueller and calling him disgusting, want just the rigged witch hunt of the investigation, but personally going after him. by the way, he's still going after his own attorney general, jeff sessions. he put quote marks around his so-called justice department in a recent tweet. and i think all of it is a piece in recent days where you really see the president's obsession growing so much with the mueller investigation. perhaps it's his own escalating sense of personal jeopardy. you now have not only the white house counsel we talked about extensively cooperating with the mueller investigation. we don't know what that means, but of course you have his own former personal attorney, michael cohen, in what appears to be in increasingly legal jeopardy. at the same time his former campaign chairman is on trial on multiple charges, both this alexandria case and there's an upcoming court case in
washington, d.c. so you have this encirclement of trump that may be leading to these threats and the investigation. that's the context i look at it in. >> they certainly seem to be coming on a little bit faster and more furious. so, john, i want to get to the president's tweet yesterday where he compared the special counsel investigation to mccarthyism. study the late joseph mccarthy because we're now in a period with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby, rigged witch hupt. someone needs a history lesson. >> i don't think donald trump knows his history very well. this is a real draw to find any comparisons between joseph mccarthy and bob mueller. it just doesn't fit at all. he just -- and his entire defense team, just talks in
nonsequiturs. the business he could run the whole investigation. that is not true. the president does not control a grand jury. a grand jury's an independent body. that grand jury would toss him out if he tried to get in and tell them what to do. >> does the president really want the american people studying mccarthy? frank, i have to ask you because mccarthy was a demagogue, relied on baseless allegations. >> that's a great question. if the american people studied mccarthy, they'd say, wow, he bears a lot of resemblance to president trump. he would hurl accusations without asking questions or facts. mueller would not speak with the press, if anything he's going on forever to make sure he's getting all the facts. the accusations come after the research not before. that's the antonym of mccarthy. >> susan, what do you think? let me ask you about -- because
mccarthy's lawyer is cohen, moved to new york, represented donald trump, more than a decade, trump praised him in his book "art of the deal." if the president thinks mccarthyism is so terrible, why de hire his lawyer? >> well, my guess is that donald trump learned a lot about mccarthyism from roy cohn and he learned the techniques of mccarthyism. in some ways you could argue trump is the most successful demogogue in politics since senator mccarthy. he was once reported to be as close to roy cohn as if roy cohn was a second father to him. we see again and again interestingly with trump this quality of projecting onto others, qualities he himself has. just last week, remember, when he withdrew john brennan's security clearance, the stated reason by the white house was
reckless behavior and essentially indiscriminate public commentary. it really was a great example of this habit of projectionism. and to have donald trump saying, we should study mccarthyism it seems like that is what he, himself, has been doing in this exercise. it's a very elaborate sort of sense inside, once again, donald trump's mind. this twitter feed is going to be studied, i'm convinced, for generations by historians who say we've just never had this unbelievable real-time insight into this complicated and at times even bizarre rantings of the most powerful man in the world. >> it's interesting. i mean, i think if you take -- they should do a trump -- what did you master? what's your major? trumpism. what does that say? projection. i was writing that and susan said it because he projects everything. >> you can go through every single person. you know, lying ted.
well, who lies more than ted cruz, donald trump? crooked hillary. who's more crooked than hillary? donald trump. it's almost like he's seeing versions of himself and is attacking them. >> what about that, john. his tweeter feed will be studied especially as it relates to this case. >> i think it will be. in fact, i understand it's been considered as part of his presidential record, and they'll be considered presidential documents, no less. this may be the core of his presidential library, which will be on the top floor of a casino. >> a library of tweets. >> wow. wow, john, that was good. >> more seriously -- >> go on susan. >> well, i was just going to say they've actually said that these are going to be evidence that the mueller prosecution team is looking at, and, you know, that we think of it as insight into his mind but it's also, you know, potentially evidence in a
criminal obstruction proceeding. >> susan, i want to ask you about this again. the president also told reuters tonight he would consider lifting sanctions on moscow if russia cooperates with u.s. on ukraine, on syria. is there any scenario where you would consider lifting sanctions on russia is a good idea? >> well, don, thank you so much for bringing that up because i did think that was a very interesting argument. once again you have this head-snapping confusion and what exactly is the trump administration's policy? on the one hand they're bragging about the tough series of sanctions and the fact that the administration has enacted a series of tough measures. on the other hand, you have trump who doesn't seem to be on board with it. still, in the immediate aftermath of the helsinki meeting to suggest vague notions of what cooperation on syria would be. again, the sanctions were imposed because of russia's illegal annexation of cry mere yeah.
the first illegal takeover territory in europe since world war ii. russia is not backing away from that and trump appears to be de facto accepting the takeover of crimea any time he uses sanctions as a bargaining chip. if he says, can you do something else and get the sanctions lifted. that would be basically exactly opposite to the policy that the entire rest of the american government is following right now. i thought it was a very significant statement in that interview. >> quickly, frank, before i let you go, he also said -- the president also said he would consider meeting again with kim jong-un because he said some great things are coming out of north korea. is he getting played here? >> which great things are coming out? ever since that meeting we keep hearing -- >> the quote is, a lot of good things are happening with north korea. >> that's not what the reporting has been. that's not what people in his own administration have been telling journalists. >> appreciate it all. when we come back, a president compliments a border patrol agent who saves 75 lives
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even need to say that this man speaks english? >> i mean, for one, he couldn't pronounce the guy's last night. he has a spanish surname. and i think it's obvious. he made an assumption on the way the guy looked and he couldn't pronounce the last name, he said, what a surprise, he speaks english. so this is some drive-by casual racism. >> steve, you don't believe. >> no, i don't. i think what you're revealing is you are as humorless as you are biased against this president. you see racism there because you want to see racism. you've come up with the conclusion first that he's a racist and now you'll search for evidence. it was very obvious to me that that was an endearing and whimsical moment. of course the president knows he speaks english. he's a federal u.s. agent. of course he speaks english. >> why would he say it. >> he's trying -- >> why would he say it? >> he's making a joke to put the man at ease because he didn't
know he would be coming to the podium and speaking before a national audience. >> why would he say that never -- we call someone a racist and look for evidence. come on. >> it's funny, don. >> you know that's not true. >> it would be funny if he said it -- i do know it's true. it would be funny if he said it to me. tvs endearing -- >> if someone is called up to the podium for a special moment, that kind of ruins it, doesn't it. >> hold on, let's hear about the moment and then we'll talk about it. here's the moment. >> i went out there and i ran the dog -- conducted a nonintrusive search of the vehicle, the tractor/trailer and once again the k-9 alerted. subsequently i opened the latch of the back of the tractor/trailer and revealed a lot of subjects. i quickly asked for backup.
backup got there and the subjects were transported back to transport -- back to the checkpoint and all of them were in good health. >> wow. well, he seems like he did a really good job there of explaining what happened. didn't seem that nervous to me. so, this man saved 78 lives. and that story is getting lost because the president made assumptions about how he looks. listen, i hear what you're saying, steve. a lot of people go to the white house. he's called people up. people have spoken. do you remember him ever saying, oh, this person speaks english perfectly? >> no, i don't think he said that before. but, look, i'm glad you got to the meat of why this man was there. this hero. these people, and the majority of them, by the way, the majority of border patrol agents are hispanic. our mainstream media tries to push this narrative that they're racist thugs pa rasing brown people -- >> come on,s steve.
that is not true. that is not true. >> let me go on record. in is a great event for the president. steve, let me just get this in. do the man the honor who served our country in terrible, rough conditions to learn his name and maybe give him a heads up if you're going to have him speak. no one should be put in that position to be called up to the podium on the fly. i mean, come on. >> the president does this all the time. he's not trying to be mean to anybody. he regularly calls people who don't think they're going to. it is true, don, people vilify border patrol and -- >> you said mainstream media vilifies border patrol. that's simply not true. >> really? how about michael hayden tweeting out a picture of auschwitz and comparing our border patrol and i.c.e. agents -- >> what was the context of that? what was the context of that? >> it was illegal border crossings by people with children. >> families -- >> families that were being put
in cages or separated at the border. no one said that -- no one talked about the ethnicity of the border patrol agents. no one said they were awful because they're hispanic or white. >> really? yes, they have, don. >> you talk about one person -- >> yes, they have. i can tell you about it. >> you talk about one person in the media -- i have not seen the mainstream media writ large do that. you made that up. >> i did not make it up. you do it on your show almost every night you call the president a racist. every viewer knows it does. speaking of i.c.e. specifically, i wrote an article -- >> i'm not going to let you get away with that. because what you said is just not true. >> you call him a racist every night. >> would you like me to go through the evidence about his racism that you seem to -- you can't see because you have these trump blinders on because you have trump de rangement blinders on? >> i don't have blinders on. >> you can't see? would you like me to start back
in the '70s with housing discrimination? want me to start with the central park five? what he said about me? what he said did lebron james? what he said about maxine waters? what he said about black people and policies and how he's kicking people off certain programs that has to do with health care, affecting blacks and poor people? you want to talk about how he has no african-americans, no black people who work for him in the west wing? he has no black advisers? would you like me to continue and go on about his racism? >> don, no, because, by the way, none of that is proof he's a racist. i have told you the west wing should have more diverse representation. i'm not a -- >> when you say something completely wrong and you have no evidence to back it up, i have to say so on the air. you have no evidence to back up the mainstream media is somehow vilifying border patrol agents and people who work on the border. that's not true.
>> you don't consider hayden one mainstream media -- >> i don't know the context of his text. that's one person. to say all of mainstream media vilifies those who work on the border is completely false. that's something you would hear on the trump news network. not on this network and i haven't heard it on any other network. >> i don't agree. we can go to elected officials. >> that's not what you said. >> how about the mayor of new york city -- >> that's not what you said. that's not what we're talking about. >> we don't want to debate that both point all night. i'm not conceding that. i think mainstream media demonizes i.c.e. let's give you an example from yesterday -- >> no, let's not because we are supposed to be talking about adrian -- >> i'm about to give you evidence. >> because you don't have evidence. >> mainstream media -- >> i have to go. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. fidelity is redefining value for investors.
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all right i'm back now. i have to get to the break. amanda, we're go let you talk the president has tweeted 67 times alone. >> they're very worried and desperate to convince people -- you can't trust anything the investigators find and i think it's important we remember what the focus of this investigation is because it's really very clear. did the trump campaign conspire with russians to use stolen information election? that's it. it's very clear. how did the trump tower meeting
happen? why was donald trump calling on the russians to openly get into hillary clinton's emails during the democratic convention? i think as long as we keep things very simple and knowing what this is about, you can see how much president trump is trying to muddy the waters. >> the former bush advisor points out that al gore's campaign resaoebed a stolen bush debate book and that came from texas, not a foreign adversary. so rudy giuliani saying this normal, that's wrong. >> that was a mistake. it was clearly a mistake. thankfully nothing nefarious came out off it but they shouldn't have had the meeting in the first place. and you know what else shouldn't
have happened? hillary and the dnc shouldn't have been using russian intelligence to come up with a phoney dossier. >> you know that was started by republicans -- >> in the beginning, you're right. but that was very early on and the vast majority of both time and money was by the democrats. >> but started by the republicans and continues on with hillary clinton after marco rubio didn't get the nomination. >> that's correct. >> watching him contort himself and going into clean up mode is mystifying. when you watch rudy giuliani, you have to ask yourself is he blindly lying when he goes on tv or does he know-nothing about the case? he told chuck todd there was no way don jr. knew he was meeting
wi with russians. that's baloney. he said twice he wanted to meet russian interpreters. the translator should have been a clue. >> i mean, come on. >> listen, again, i'm not defending the meeting. quite the opposite. nothing came out of the meeting and i believe the president when he tells me that he didn't know about it. so the fact that don jr. and jared had a foolish meeting to me is irrelevant to the president's culpability and certainly any legal jeopardy for the president in this matter. >> it's still illegal though? >> the russians did commit crimes. the question is what do the trump campaign know about these crimes --
>> i'm up against a clock. it's always fun with you guys. when we come back the president is agitated. so just how were should he be that his own white house counsel spoke to robert mueller's team for 30 hours or more? that's on top. as king midas, here at midas, you will too. and your oil change comes with a tire rotation as well. ooo that's good! i could put that on an airplane banner. hmm. maybe. nice work. was that...? yeah, king midas. yeah. at midas, we're always a touch better. which is why our $19.99 oil change also includes a tire rotation. book your appointment now at midas.com
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