basically has to testify. he s been blocked, and he could provide a lot of information to congress that could feed another article of impeachment on obstruction of justice if they go that route. so this is something again very fluid and a lot of members would like to see that factored into any impeachment they move forward with. kyle, thank you for being with us. thank you. all right, tonight, we ve got new reporting from the washington post that appears to contradict or at least cast doubt on one of donald trump s central defenses in the impeachment inquiry. you may remember that one week ago today eu ambassador gordon sondland testified to congress that there was an explicit quid pro quo involving the announcement of investigations into trump s political rivals in exchange for a coveted white house meeting. at that hearing, sondland also testified that he spoke with the president by phone on september 9th, two days the hold on military aid was lifted. this is important becaus
deputy national security adviser under president obama and author of the world as it is: a memoir of the obama white house. mr. rhodes, thank you for joining us tonight. let s get your reaction to this. the idea that gordon sondland s testimony in large part was predicated upon this phone call that apparently took place between him and donald trump, a phone call that feels like it might have been scripted, that it was so good in what it had to say, if you were gordon sondland. what do you make of the fact there s no record of this phone call? well, look, first of all, ali, the whole fact picture around this phone call suggests that there was entirely a quid pro quo, that trump was leveraging this assistance to try to get an announcement of these investigations, and then this reporting kind of suggests what also seemed apparent, which they knew they were going to be caught, and so this is someone who knows they re being caught, calling someone and saying, i am 234not committing
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joining us now here on set i am very pleased to say is andrew wiseman, also a leading member of special counsel robert mueller s team. mr. weissman, it s really an honor to meet you. it seems to me like the fruman and parnas indictments and what is reported to be an ongoing criminal investigation of mr. giuliani alongside them, those appear to be parallel and potentially budding case what we see on capitol hill. do you see it that way as well? what you just covered with the peter carr announcement and the fraud section, very unusual because what it signals is there s clearly an investigation into rudy giuliani. because normally just because a lawyer has clients who get indicted doesn t mean that you say oh, i m not going to meet with the lawyer anymore