discredit the russia investigation. the pruitt problem, dispute multiple probes into his conduct, scott pruitt still has a job. how he remains in the president's good graces. we'll start with a live picture of capitol hill, a beautiful sunday morning where republican leaders are scrambling to get support from the white house on a compromised immigration bill and clear up some confusion after president trump initially said he would oppose the bill just a couple of days ago. a republican leadership source telling nbc news last night heeders are hoping to get some clarity when president trump meets with them on capitol hill tuesday. new details on how white house officials like stephen miller has been one of main drivers, pushing the president to enforcing the separation policy after it was first floated by then dhs secretary john kelly in march of 2017. with escalating krilt sixes on both sides of the aisle, a new prediction for how bad it could get. a border patrol chief telling the "washington post" last night, family separations could double in number. department of homeland security saying nearly 2,000 children already have been separated from their parents between april and may. "washington post" also giving us a sense here of how dire the situation is for children housed in at least one of the shelters. the president of the american academy of pediatrics visited a shelter in texas and told the post workers there are not al w allowed to touch the children even if it means consoling crying toddlers. president trump -- a strategy that carries risk for republicans long term. kelly o'donnell has more. >> reporter: far from the real world consequences, is the red meat of immigration politics. president trump tweeted, democrats can fix their forced family break-up at the border by working with republicans on new legislation for a change. this white house video links an alleged gang murder to rules affecting child immigrants. >> the gang member reportedly entered our country through glaring loopholes for unaccompanied alien minors. >> after he distanced himself from his own administration's zero tolerance policy that triggered the situations. >> i hate it. hate to see separation of parents and children. >> the president's strategy is to blame democrats for blocking passage of immigration reforms and border security. but outcry over the treatment of immigrant children could blow back on republicans. oklahoma senator james langford posted video where he tells a constituent, he has a message for the white house. >> keep families together as much as we can possibly keep families together. >> for republican candidates, immigration is an issue that gets conservative voters to turn out. >> build that wall. build that damn wall. >> dan donovan has president trump's endorsement in this month's stateland newk ary. he also had his lawyers campaign help. >> you know i represent president trump. >> issues like immigration could determine control of congress. the president's allies like giuliani plainly argue the president's fate is on the line. >> let's stop the responsibility of a ridiculous impeachment and make sure i don't have to see nancy pelosi on television anymore. thank you. >> president trump plans to visit house republicans on tuesday to talk strategy about two immigration bills. the more conservative hard line bill is not likely to pass. leaving the door open to a compromise that would address family separations, would grant legal status to young immigrants known as dreamers and beef up border security. the votes could happen late next week. will the president get behind one of these measures and will his support help or hurt? >> let's bring in kevin -- thank you kelly o'donnell. jonathan allen, national political reporter for nbc news digital. jonathan, we'll start with you on this. the reporting coming out of the quts new york tiles times, believed to be largely led or influenced by stephen miller and also with influence from his chief of staff, former head of dhs general kelly as well. how firm is the president in his stance right now from what you're hearing? >> what we heard from -- from officials on capitol hill and from white house officials on friday was that there was a lot of back channelling between the institutions going on, base he canally white house aides telling people on the hill that the president didn't understand the question he was asked on fox and friends on friday aidn't meano say he would veto the legislation that his on aide stephen miller had been working with with people on capitol hill. you know, for many, many hours on friday there was a.mbiguity about that and tweet by trump. he's going to go up to capitol hill on tuesday and here's what he's going to do. he's going to -- look, the president is unpredictable but the mission is clear, to go back to the hill and tell people he ally wants to see the bill done, not that he doesn't want to see it done, we're having enough trouble trying to pass it when they thought he was behind -- thought he was supportive and of course when he flipped that blew everything up. now he has to go back down to the hill and talk to republican lawmakers an say he's going to give support. otherwise they'll be afraid the constituents will abandon them. >> when that does happen and the president does go down to the hill and speak to leaders of the republican pty there on the hill, kevin, two bills in sun dri, little bits. what's going to stick based on what you think the white house might be trying to leverage out of this? >> i don't think anyone knows what the white house is trying to leverage out of this at this point. the fact of the matter is you have the centrists being led by a retiring speaker of the house. then you've got the ultraconservatives and freedom caucus which feel em boldened as a result of that retirement speech from paul ryan. there's a remarkable tension in terms of politics shaping the dynamic of this immigration debate. but let's take out the politics for a second. because you know,ardless of whether you're a republican or a democrat, this debate on immigration has been going on for so long and when you have children that are being separated from their parents and their families on father's day, this is without question not a good -- this is not a winning political issue for democrats or republicans and most people outside of washington cannot understand the inaction of congress and government to move this over the finish line. at the end of the day republicans are in power but should there be a divided government come post november, practiy speaking it's only going to be more difficult for so type of policy item to get done. this is an embarrassment on the behalf of b parties. >> jonathan, as kef vib is noting here in. in the past both democrats and republicans not pushed for these sorts of separations consistently. that i have seen the fact it could be quite damaging to either one of the parties should they like to do this here. i was reading through the weekend and the headline read here jonathan that the president believes that he sticks to the current policy, which is coming from his administration of these separations and that he has a better stance and better bargaining position when he does meet with whomever. in this case his own party when he's on the hill. do you agree? >> i mean the problem is he's negotiating against himself at this point. i mean, as kevin was saying a minute ago, taking out the politics for a second, what we're seeing on the border is inhumane. talking about tent cities in the middle of summer to take car of children, there is -- i don't think there's anybody in the country that looks at that -- i shouldn't say there's anybody, very many that look at that and say that's an optimal solution. our colleague, lee ann caldwell was talking to republicans on capitol hill on friday and has a story on nbc news.com right now how concerned republicans are about the potential blowback from this. the truth is president trump is the one that attempted to end daca, essentially unilaterally and also the person who is enforcing this border policy of separating children from their parents. you know, that's the truth of the matter regardless ever the political spin that goes on and republicans are very concerned about that blowing back on them. >> kevin, any discussions with republican members that resonates right now? when we do see pictures that have been shown and will continue to be shown, the number doubles -- >> and should be shown. >> the numbers do double as we're hearing from the "washington post." this is not going to be good narratively for a lon time to come. >> no, it's not going to be good narratively and also just beyond the politics of this, i mean, you look at the polls and it's tough to talk about these issues. such a political lens. evangelicals don't like this and independent voters in states like pennsylvania michigan and wisconsin, states that the president carried don't like this. there are 70,000 voters that voted for president obama. >> evangelicals. >> they absolutely don't like this because it gets to the crux of caring for those in need. and look, i'm not -- i think as john just correctly pointed out, i mean, there is a small faction of the republican wing that don't -- that would approve of this but there's a much larger contingency of folks who would be quite frankly surprised, people socially much more conservative than the rest of the country looking at these images of children on father's day being ripped from their families and saying, wait a minute. that is not the type of immigration policy i voted for. and so that's where i think to jonathan's point, this really does significantly put republicans in mid-term elections - in a tough spot. this isn't about building a wall. this is about tearing families apart. that is a much different campaign slogan than i think even conservative republicans campaigned on back in the 2016 cycle. >> i want to finish with this, jonath jonathan. rudy giuliani will be making the rounds on talk shows. i'll play you what he said for a congressional candidate yesterday. >> what they've been doing to him is heartless and cruel -- >> horrific. >> an investigation made up of a bunch of distorted human beings and instead of investigating president trump, they should go to bellview. whack a doodles. >> the bell view psychiatric hospital here, and jonathan, what are we hearing from the rhetoric from rudy giuliani here? >> first of all, i'm surprised to hear a former mayor of new york talk aboutbelview in the cloakial terms of the psychiatric ward, in terms of health care and does a lot of things, you think the former mayor of new york would be more sensitive to that. as far as what he's doing there, trying to discredit the mueller investigation. you know who we haven't heard from other than court documents is robert mueller. i think it's going to be very difficult to depict robert mueller as insane or needing to be committed to a psychiatric hospital when we haven't even heard the guy speak. >> kevin, that's -- amen to what jonathan just said. bob mueller has proven time and time again through every twitter news cycle that he does not care what anyone is saying about him. also proven time and time again he's not operating on anyone else's timetable but his own. he kept this investigation completely in its own lane beyond all of the political noise coming from yes the left as well as the right. that this is intensified politicized this. he's saying no, he's doing this on his terms, completely separate and independent of all of the outside noise. >> kevin and jonathan, thanks for kicking this off. we'll be back with you in a little bit to talk about scott pruitt and more. next i'll talk to a former prosecutor about how much longer the mueller investigation might last. napoon is duping us! all around louisiana... you're a nincompoop! (phone ping) gentlemen, i have just received word! the louisiana purchase, is complete! instant purchase notifications from capital one. so you won't miss a purchase large, small, or very large. technology this helpful... could make history. what's in your wallet? there's a new report that says president trump's legal team is preparing for a fight as robert mueller nears the end of his investigation. the president's attorney rudy giuliani has been on the attack in an attempt to discredit the probe. >> the ig report tells you that both prongs of the mueller investigation are either corrupt or answered. comey, those fbi agents fired today and imprisoned next week. not mueller but the reason for the investigation, comey should go to jail for that. >> investigate the investigators. the president didn't do anything wrong and he's being investigated corruptly. let's turn to the corrupt investigators. >> this comes as -- tells the "washington post" allies are prepared for war as mueller moves towards a finalized obstruction report. let's go to former federal prosecutor doug burns. thanks for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> what do you make of this talk about his legal team and moving forward to go -- we've seen long memo from before. you remember it, that really seemed to be much of a legal strategy. are they -- this time around, if they indeed are getting ready to go to war against a new group. >> it's interesting, richard, they are doing -- don't need me to say, sort of a squished earth pit bull dog approach hitting the different tv shows and saying it's completely illegitimate and witch hunt and so on. second point is more nuanced and interesting and important. after we dejeigested the ig rep we saw emerging an argument that as little more difficult to make honestly. that is okay that the report shows jim comey is director of the fbi and engaged in i am provide prits in the way they handled the clinton investigation and then say therefore it follows that the mueller investigation is totally invalid. you know, i understand that argument, unless they can show a more concrete link, it's ar moi difficult argument to make. >> what sort of legal argument might me make to turn up the heat? few details but i go back to the original document that we were able to obtain weeks ago that showed very little legal argument that would say you need to stop this. >> again, not to be a broken record, such a good question. the point is, base he cically ye the text messages that showed a sensible political bias, we're going to prevent the president from being there. there are counter arguments all over the place which is agents are entitled to have opinions and other agents who had different political views but going to work that. from a straight legal point of view, it's not necessarily that easy to achieve what they are trying to sell. >> so put this together for me, doug. because clearly one of the pathways we've been discussing is you have to go after jeff sessions and you have to go after rod rosenstein, those are the two folks that could affect bob mueller and what he's doing. do they have enough ammo to do that that we haven't been considering on the flip side, bob mueller we're reading is just steam rolling -- those are the words i'm reading in the headlines, moving ahead saying you can come after me but i'm going to work even harder. >> that's the core of it. there was a lot of speculation, you know, rod rosenstein oversees the entire mueller investigation and that's because as deputy attorney general, the ag had recused himself, causing lots of pressure from the president and never should have done that. if i knew you were going to recuse yourself, i wouldn't have named you, that whole line of thought. but the point is, you know,ener trying to discredit the deputy ag on other fronts that aren't necessarily related. there was a dust-up where he threatened members of a congressional committee. again, it's like a big mish moshe of everything. but generally, just trying to discredit and discredit scorched earth pit bull dog. >> discrediting here, doug, does that endanger the very arguments that they may fall to? does that endanger them because bob mueller could say, see you are getting in the way of our investigation by coming after me? >> it's a very tricky calculus, you make an argument that something isn't there and guess what, it is. you get my point. you don't know the outcome it's hard to tell. >> yeah, so many different ways to go about this legally. thank you so much, sir, doug burns, former federal prosecutor. have a good sunday and father's day sir. >> thank you. >> scott fpruitt's secret, how the embattled eps managed to keep his job. he has been able to keep his job with critics of his conduct on both sides of the aisle. that's next. your insurance company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a scratch so small you coulda fixed it with a pen. maybe you should take that pen and use it to sign up with a different insurance company. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty stands with you. liberty tual insurance. hey, i'm curious about your social security alerts. oh! just sign up online and we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites. that sounds super helpful. how much is it? well, if you have a discover card, it's free. no way! yes way! we just think it's important for you to be in the know. all right! hey... ewww! everything ok? being in the know is very good. yeah, it is. ooo don't shake! don't shake! ahhh! know if your social security number is found on risky sites. free from discover. the "washington post" has a new report how embattled epa scott pruitt, the secretary of the epa scott pruitt through his loyalty to president trump managed to keep his job. his allegiance to the president includes ingrashiating himself personally and strongly backing him on policy in meetings and regularly on one on one in those nversations. let's bring back kevin surly and jonathan allen. there's also reporting coming out that there's newly alleged conduct that the investigations into scott pruitt through the inspector general, it's been requested to expand even further. there's over a dozen investigations so far right now. what do you know about this newly alleged conduct? >> well, first and foremost, the president in that marathon white house press conference in the north lawn telling us reporters that he doesn't like all of the noise but does like the policies that his epa director scott pruitt are fighting for. to answer your question directly, i'm not sure these new reports will put him in any significant risk. ever seen yor source that i've talked to regarding scott pruitt maintains that scott pruitt's relationship with some very influential people in the energy sector are still very much behind him and that those folks have the president's ear. until he's not in lock step with some of these dominant forces in the energy industry, i don't see this hurting him. where this becomes problematic and where this becomes more of a poght, when you have folks in the ethanol industry led of course by two republican senators from iowa, chuck grassley and joni earnst, that becomes an inner republican fight and that's problematic from a political standpoint. i'm not sure they want to have a nomination fight ahead of the midterms. >> i meant the administrator to you. jonathan, 15 seconds. >> i don't think scott pruitt is going anywhere. seems cemented in there. up to the president personally and execute the policies he wants. >> headline that keeps on giving unfortunately i'm sure for money. that will do it for me. i'm richard lui. thanks for watcng. all of your fathers have a good father's day. yup. 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keep the peace. let me speak with some folks here. excuse me, where are you from? >> i'm from san antonio. >> reporter: we're live right now on msnbc. we just wanted to know, why did you decide to come here to mcallen, texas, today? >> i was actually coming down because i was bringing them down tomorrow and i wanted to check out what was going on and i knew there was a protest, so i thought i would check it out. >> when you saw the bus come out with the kids, there were some tense moments, what went through your head? why did some of these protesters go ahead and try to stop that bus? give me a sense for the outrage here. >> i think as a mother myself, it's heartbreaking to think of families being separated from each other. i think it's heartbreaking to think of those children without their parents and how scared they must be, not able to speak english or know what's going on in this country. >> reporter: what was your reaction to the president's executive order this week, stopping the separation of families but continuing the zero tolerance policy. do you think anything will now change? >> my question is what will happen to the 2300 children already separated from their parents? there's nothing in place for those children. with this immigration system as it is, it's pretty tough to find parents. some are not even being marked as parents so it's hard to reunite these families. it's not enough. >> reporter: cbp says it's reunited the children within its custody but still am questions remaining, as you mentioned, 2300 children in hhs custody. earlier today at this very facility before this protest started there were a group of 20 or some democratic congressmen and women who toured the facility as well. that was a question they had. how these hundreds of children, more than 2,000 children would be reunited. do you feel the government has an adequate plan in order to reunite these children? >> i don't think so. and i think there's so much conflicting information from administration that it's hard for border patrol and i.c.e. to keep up with the intake of these families. parents are being deported while children are still in some of the internment camps throughout this country. >> thank you for joining us. we really appreciate your time. thank you very much. again, we're here in front of the ursula processing center in mcallen, texas, where a protest is under way. just about a half hour or so ago some protesters had stopped the bus full of migrants. you can see, if we -- let's walk over here. you can see the security that is now out in front of this facility. mcallen, police, as well as cbp officers have now surrounded this ursula processing center to try to keep the peace, thankfully. from what we can tell, there have been no arrests and it has remained peaceful except for those few tense moments when some of these protesters got in front of that bus. so, i'm going to send it back to you. >> thank you very much. gabe gutierrez in mcallen, texas, the site of that protest. they're outside that ursula processing center. happening right now in las vegas, nevada, a growing crowd waiting for president trump to speak at a campaign rally for republicans ahead of the midterm election as the battle for immigration continues to be front and center. in homestead, florida, protesters are gearing up to rally for the march to keep families together. that's going to take place outside the second largest shelter for migrant children in the country. msnbc's ron hilliard is in las vegas where president trump is expected to speak later. we've seen the president speak several times this week. yesterday he spoke with victims killed by undocumented immigrants at an event in washington, d.c. what are we expecting to hear from the president today? i mentioned it's a campaign event for dean heller in nevada. what are you expecting to hear from the president of the united states? >> reporter: the political juxtaposition is quite telling. you're in nevada. 25% of the electorate is a latino. this is a state donald trump lost by 22.5 percentage points in 2016. dean heller is up for re-election. he's the senator, he's the incumbent and he's trying to hold onto his seat. three years ago dean heller gave up a campaign contribution that donald trump made to him. the spokesman at the time said it was over donald trump's position on immigration. earlier this week dean heller was one of those 13 republican senators that called on the administration to change its policy on family separation. we just heard from dean heller. he spoke for no more than three minutes at the nevada convention. no words on immigration. they're trying to push their tax message plan. the president, as you said, should be taking the stage here any moment. just yesterday there was a lot of house republicans over in congress that were rattled because the president sent out a tweet that all immigration plans in terms of any legislative action should be pushed until after november. roop-r really throwing immigration in the future up into the air while cal and gabe are out there, there's mayhem of where these children are around the country. >> let me ask you about that mayhem. you look at what gabe gutierrez is witnessing firsthand on the ground in mcallen. it's confusion manifest, is what i would say. people upset with the fact they don't know what's going to happen, how these families are going to be reunited. i think back on what that woman said to gabe gutierrez, it's want enough. help us understand the magnitude of that chaos and confusion. >> reporter: i think the bottom line is it's becoming clear there was no plan. there was no plan going into this when this country and the government and specifically the trump administration decided to stop separating minors from their parents. what what you're seeing is manifestation between lawmakers and media as well. here's a perfect example. yesterday we saw senator udall from new mexico coming here. he wanted to get into the camp. he was denied entry. he got into a little side room where he watched a cctv camera. he pressured and he's back today to try to get into that camp. there's no guarantee it will happen. the breakdown between the administration and the elected officials in this country is simply astonishing. there are areas they cannot get into, there are areas they're not allowed access to. i'll give you one more example, david. we know there were young children brought into this facility because we saw the buses pass us by and we saw the figures of young children on those buses. the next morning at 3:00 a.m. we saw three fans being escorted by suburbans out of the facility. 12 hours later, the senators go into the facility, come out and say there are only kids, maels between the ages of 14 to 18. there's no free-flow of information. we don't know who's being moved around and when they're being moved around. it's really chaotic to answer your question. >> cal perry and ron hilliard. protests in mcallen, texas, other parts of the country. we're waiting for the president to speak. we'll continue to cover this throughout the afternoon here on msnbc. president trump continuing to call out congress for the migrant family separation crisis, writing this on twitter. we must maintain a strong southern border. we cannot allow our country to be overrun by illegal immigrants as the democrats tell their phoney stories of sadness and grief, hoping it will help them in the elections. obama and others had the same pictures and did nothing about it. a lot to react to there from representative maxine waters, democrat of california. the ranking member on the house financial services committee. react to the rhetoric, the political rhetoric, if you would. we've been focused on the suffering that's taking place, these families ripped apart, trying to find each other after this policy was put in place. politics intervened. we've seen the president's tweets. you've seen the president's tweets. what do you make of his message to congress? >> let me just say that americans all over this country are concerned about these children. and the president does not get it yet. he knew they were implementing a policy of separating children from their parents. he said it, jeff sessions said it, john kelly said it and they were using these children to try and get his wall built, by intimidating and causing chaos. americans have pushed back on so forcibly and he wanted it to look like he changed the policy. we know there are over 2,000 children who have been separated from their parents. the parents don't know where the children are. the children are crying for their parents and americans are not going to stand for it. he had better find these children and he had better come up with a policy and a plan by which to do it or this country is going to go off. this country is going to continue to grow in protests against what he's doing. no matter if you're republican or democrat. americans do not like the idea of snatching children out of the arms of their parents. they don't like the idea that they're being separated and children are being traumatized. so this president had better move and he better move fast to get these children connected to their parents. >> big question i have today, congresswoman, is what is congress going to do. you were backing a piece of legislation by your colleague from california, dianne feinstein. donald trump and his racist jim crow-era throwback jeff sessions have unleashed the full power of the executive branch to target, terrorize and target families, many of whom are seeking refuge from the very type of mistreatment in which they are now confronted with upon arrival to the greatest democracy in the world. in is a national disgrace. what can you and your colleagues do in congress to rectify this? you're a minority in congress. what can you do at this point? >> we appeal to the republicans to stop being intimidated by the president. to stand up for this country and what's right. we have immigration laws and laws by which people can seek to be heard so that their stories can be understood about the violence going on in the country, the danger to their lives and their children and if the court proceedings could go on in the way the law allows them to go on, we could make a determination about whether or not these people are truly in danger, whether or not we're going to allow them to stay, but this business of separating the children from their parents at the border and deporting at the border without people going through the process, the legal process to do it is what we have to convince the republicans that they must stand up for. we are in the minority. the democrats are in the minority. we have a few republicans who want to do the right thing. but they have got to get over their fear and their intimidation and stand up for this country, stand up for children and stand up for parents. >> i'm going to put up a list of democratic colleagues of yours who have called for the resignati resignation, the secretary of homeland security in what we've seen over the last few days. are you going to add your name to those ranks? do you think she should step aside? >> oh, absolutely, she should step apasseside. i have no sympathy for these people in the administration who know it's wrong for what they're doing on so many fronts. they end to not want to confront this president or even leave, but they know what they're doing is wrong. i want to tell you, these members of his cabinet who remain and try to defend him, they won't be able to go to a restaurant, they won't be able to stop at a gas station, they're not going to be able to shop at a department store. the people are going to turn on them. they're going to protest. they're absolutely going to harass them until they decide that they're going to tell the president, no, i can't hang with you. this is wrong, this is unconscionable, we can't do this to children. >> we saw sarah huckabee sanders turned away from a restaurant in lexington, virginia, yesterday because of her affiliation with the president. let me ask you lastly here about policy. you're on house financial services, you keep track of policies put in place by the white house. let me broaden that. talking with my colleague cal perry at the border in torrino, texas, at one of these tent facilities, he says it's becoming clear there is no mpla. how emblematic is that of the way this administration is handling the policy? >> this president wakes up in the morning and tweets policy. he does not work with his experts, he does not work with his personnel. he is creating public policy on his own by himself in whatever way he decides it should go in the morning when he wakes up. this is outrageous. he is absolutely being destructive to this country. i don't know why people are not screaming in the streets about what we are experiencing with this president. i have said all along, he is a dishonorable man, a despicable human being, he has no good values, he's dangerous, he does not care about our democracy, he's is with putin, he likes the strong man and the dictators of the world. that's who he's looking to be friends with because he's just like them and he wants to be just like them. he wants to runl this country like them. we've got to push back. we've got to say no. i, for example, have stepped way out there. i said this man needs to be impeached. i know a lot of people think we're not ready to say that. some people have said a long time ago he would become presidential. he will never be presidential. this man does not have any good values. i believe he needs to be impeached. as a matter of fact, a long time before he's doing what he's doing now with these children. i think he had done enough to undermine this country and to have us understand we cannot trust him, that we should have come with an impeachment resolution. so, i believe we cannot wait until the next presidential election. we have to resist him. i want to see him impeached. >> congresswoman, thank you very much. great to speak with you. appreciate the time on this saturday. >> you're welcome. >> maxine waters, thank you. backtracking next, attorney general jeff sessions' evolving explanation for the white house's zero tolerance policy on immigration. nished preparing him for college. in 24 hours, you'll send him off thinking you've done everything for his well-being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. while meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. meningitis b strikes quickly. be quick to talk to your teen's doctor about a meningitis b vaccine. it's pretty amazing out there. the world is full of more possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business. no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. and we're committed to improving every ride.t to you starting with features designed to make it easy for your driver to find you. taking the stress out of pickups. and we're putting safety at the heart of everything we do. with a single tap, we're giving you new ways to let loved ones know you're on your way. uber has new leadership, a new vision and is moving in a new direction... forward. welcome back. i'm david gura. attorney general jeff sessions ba backpedaling now saying he never intended to separate children from their parents. put intentions aside, nearly 2,000 migrant children remain split from their parents and there's still no clear plan in place for reuniting these families. joining me is jeremy peters, a reporter for "the new york times," natasha is a staff writer at "at the lanticthe atl" the date line is leesburg, virginia, you talk to trump supporters across the country about many things, in part, how they reacted to this story that i just mentioned, this immigration story. what did you hear inning aggreg? >> i think there are a lot of people uncomfortable with the policy of separating young children from their parents, but at the same sometime, if they support president trump and they see president trump taking heat from a left and a mainstream media they see as hostile and hell-bent on taking out this president, they kind of retreat into this almost defensive, like, crouch. there's this protective behavior where they defend the president even though they may not agree with him because they see the reaction to him as being so overheat. i think this is a really powerful impulse that democrats need to take into account going into november. you know, it's still going to be very hard for republicans to hang onto the house. but they do have this advantage in that they are incredibly united right now around trump. these crises that seem to a lot of people who aren't trump supporters to be, you know, signs of dysfunction and cold-heartedness, frankly, inside the white house. they're actually seen as something of a rallying cry for a lot of republicans. >> you marry your reporting with the latest polling data. i want to pull this up from gallup, looking at his support among republicans, it's at 90%. >> that's astonishing. >> that gave me pause on what i've seen over the course of the week here as republicans have tried to pass some immigration legislation. natasha, i want to get your reaction to this, someone jeremy talked to in this piece, julie knight in washington state and she says, it bothers me he doesn't tell the truth, but i guess i kind of expect that, also from the media, not to tell the truth or to slant it one way. if anything, looking at this issue, looking at the immigration issue, you have had this administration lying about the policy that was put in place. truth has become this elusary thing over the last week. >> what's ironic is you also have trump supporters who say, i don't trust the images coming out of the detention centers and the images of the kids. the fact of the matter is it's been the trump administration releasing these photos to begin with because there are no photographs allowed in these centers. i think that it's really ironic how much trump supporters are rallying around the president on this since he's framed the whole issue within national security terms. but the fact of the matter is, he's now ordered his attorney general to this zero tolerance immigration policy. when you talk to public defenders in these border districts, they say, yeah, there's been a huge plunge in the number of cases, drug-related and human trafficking related, that have been prosecuted since this zero tolerance immigration policy began because we simply can't do everything. we've been -- there are hundreds of cases daily where people are entering into the country illegally. these are misdemeanor crimes whereas the people who are smuggling drugs in the country, they just don't have the resources to prosecute that. so es is he shally they're diverting resources from the crimes trump has said he wants to stop, which is the flow of drugs into this is country, crime in this country, in order to throw people in jail for ten days or so, pay a $10 fine and deport them right back. >> jeremy, i want to get a sense of you how the president has made this issue so resonant with voters, with republicans, with the so-called compromise legislation where you have some republicans trying to marry this with the conservative members. how effective has he been in making this a trump republican party? i cite that 90% figure which i find astonishing here. to my mind at least he's been effective governing what the policy priorities are. >> that's exactly right. you not only have him setting the agenda, you have him reshaping the opinion of republican voters. look at where they've come on issues of free trade, on views of vladimir putin. one of the statistics we cite in this story is the favorable rating that vladimir putin has among republicans has doubled since 2015. you know, you also have the increasing tolerance among republicans, especially among white evangelical christians for public officials to behave immorally in public office. it used to be that when you asked on a questionnaire, do you as a republican or evangelical think it's discrediting for a politician to behavior immorally in private life, they would say yes. now they no longer say is that. >> natasha, you covered the russia investigation so quickly. that's not getting a lot of traction with people across the country. what's going to make people care more about it as you watch it play out, as you watch bob mueller's investigation play out, as we await his conclusions? >> it's interesting mueller's poll numbers seem to be going down among a certain segment of the population, even though it's a secret investigation. we really don't know what mueller has. we know that he's doing an obstruction report, which is allegedly going to implicate the president. we know he is still investigating the collusion angle. i think what's going to matter here is when he finds the trump campaign did collude with the russians or didn't collude with the russians. every time mueller drops something, it seems to dominate the news coverage because no one saw it coming. he's already indicted the former campaign chairman, his deputy, the president's lawyer is now in the special counsel's crosshairs in the district of new york, so this is something that's not going to lose steam any time soon but when he does issue those final conclusions, i expect it to bear a lot of weight. >> great to see you. thank you very much. jeremy, thank you. i can't commend that piece enough. it will be in tomorrow's print edition of "the new york times." next, jacob soboroff will join us to discuss what he saw on both sides of the southern border during his reporting over the last month. ♪ a hotel can make or break a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage. now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts on select hotels right until the day you leave. ♪ add-on advantage. discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. only when you book with expedia. president trump is in las vegas at this hour talking tax reform, but we expect immigration is going to come up as he addresses nevada republicans. nothing has attracted more attention this week than what's been happening at the u.s./mexico border. jacob soboroff has spent the better part of a month reporting from both sides of the border. he has a "dateline" special tomorrow night. >> we're with the border patrol in pursuit of two people they spotted up on the mountain ridge in this area. and the reason we're shooting in night vision is because we have to maintain a low profile as we get out here to hike up the mountains in pursuit. it's intense. i'm winded already. and these guys just don't stop. they're searching for the migrants up in the hills. they could be smugglers. they could be mules. we don't know. they could be armed. >> reporter: as border patrol's elite flex team sprinted out way ahead of us, a helicopter joined the chase. that's the bodies. do they have them? >> jacob joins me in new york. readying that piece for tomorrow night. take us back to what was happening there. what did that tell you about this issue of border policy? >> watching this back and remembering what we were going through that night and thinking about how the president's been talking about the people that come to this country over the course of the last, whatever, six or seven days, you don't leave your home country, cross mexico, one of the most dangerous countries in the world, and run for your life from border patrol -- >> it's not central park. >> that's exactly right. it's not central park. you're not doing that because you think, hey, i'm going to give it a shot and go to the united states. these are some of the most desperate people in the world quite literally risking your lives. you could die running from the border patrol like that. no doubt some of these people are drug smugglers, some are violent criminals but it's a tiny percent of the overall population. the whole thing i want people to understand from this hour we're doing tomorrow night on nbc for "dateline" is, the perception of what the border is like in washington, d.c., particularly the words that come out of the president's mouth is a complete different reality than what's happening on the ground. >> do you think that perception has changed over the last week, ten days? i've talked to many congressmen and women who have traveled there to get a look at the detention facilities. having gone through this, i don't mean to say it's ended, it's all continuing, those folks in washington, shaping, crafting, trying to craft policy, have a better sense of those issues? >> i certainly hope so. i know that i do. it was one of the most experiences of my life as a father and just as a human to see little kids sitting inside cages guarded by security contractors in the watch tower. it was nauseating to see. the fact that's now out in the public consciousness, albeit with government handout photos, at least we've been able to describe that to the american people and some congress people have been able to see that themselves. if you're outraged by what we saw there in the course of the last week, you should be outraged with how we got here, too. american immigration policy has been a big old fail for 25 years, since the clinton administration started this deterrence policy called detention through deterrence that led to people crossing in the mountains and deserts and increasing people dying. i just hope -- i hope we've been shocked. trump has brought us there in probably the worst way possible. i hope there's a way forward for all of us to figure this out. >> there's the old saying all politics is local. back here in new york now, but i wonder as you look at the confusion and chaos vouning the legal process, particularly about what the justice department wants to have happen, how are folks on the ground paying attention to what is happening in washington as all this is getting sorted out? >> i think people on the ground think what's happening in washington is a joke because they don't -- they just say, i've never seen these people down here. the secretary of homeland security has never set foot inside that detention center where we keep running the footage of the mylar blankets and the mats on the floor and the people sleeping in cages. during that press conference, this one right here, during the press conference, she stood there on the white house podium and said, i've been in federal detention centers like the ones, paraphrasing, like the ones kids separated inside. she's never been there. donald trump did not only go to the border in the milgz ddle ofs krishgsz he went as far as can you in the opposite direction, dulu duluth, minnesota. i know we're monitoring his remarks but he's running away from this as fast as he can. he said less about that in duluth than he said as a presidential candidate or as president himself. i think people on the ground think our politicians in washington are a joke and have no idea what happens down there. >> last question is about the magnitude of this. we don't have the map of this but these kids who have been separated from their parents have been sent across this country. for me, that's the hardest thing for me to get my head around. we talk about the border, but this is really a national issue, a national crisis. >> standing right there in this studio, bill de blasio, he was saying, the mayor of new york, there are 239 kids sent from south texas here to this city, to east harlem, in shelters and were only caught because somebody put that on new york one in the middle of the night. the fact you can take kids away from their parents and disperse them not only 2,000 miles away but to 13 different states, i think reportedly, there are 17 different states with these shelters, 100 potential different shelters, and not really have a way to -- i mean, you can track your fedex package down to the second and know where it is and we don't know where 2,000 young human beings are in this country and if their parents will ever see them again? i think that it's a despicable state of affairs when it comes to how this was all handled. >> jacob, thank you very much. thanks for the reporting. jacob soboroff reporting from new york. you can watch his special date line report, the dividing line tomorrow night on nbc at 7:00 eastern time. dinner plans next. why white house senior adviser stephen miller's restaurant selection is angering so many people. las vegas, nevada, the president of the united states, donald trump ready to speak to the republican party of nevada. it's supposed to be about tax reform. there's a high likelihood, i would say, the president may talk about immigration as well. let's listen in now. the president of the united states, donald trump, in las vegas, nevada. >> thank you very much, everybody. thank you. i want to thank michael. he's done a great job. he's really -- i looked at some numbers before. they're looking really good. i give a lot of that attribution to michael. he's been a wonderful leader in this great state that we love. i want to congratulate senator dean heller on his victory. he's going to do a tremendous job. he's going to be a continuation of a great senator. he's been with me all the way. once we get elected. i must tell you, a little shaky at the beginning, but that is when a lot of people running. once we got in there, he's been rock solid, he's been great and tease going to do a job. he cut your taxes and nobody fought harder to cut taxes than dean heller. i will tell you that. your great attorney general is here. he's running against shady steve. and -- well, you know, if you think of the name, right, if you think -- because it's always good to sort of, if you can think of something like that, but he's going to win this race so easily. i really believe, right? where's adam? where is adam? where's adam? come on up, dean. >> thank you. and a man that was really so fantastic, and he's been like a supporter of mine for a long time, he is a very intense individual, like -- that's the blood lines from this family. and, boy, that father was good. he was tough. he was tough. there's only one difference, danny is even tougher. danny tar kuehne. he's a great team player, danny. he's a really great team player. and dean and myself, we really appreciate what he did. and he's going to go in there and he's going to win in that third congressional district, right, danny? going to be there for a long time. i also want to, obviously, welcome all of our republican party delegates. you've been here and working and striving. look what happened. look what happened, right? you're the heart and soul of the party. in is a great state. this is a state that will be with us and has always been with us. we love the people. i'm here a lot. we have a great development down the road but now i don't think about that anymore, right? i don't think about it anymore. i just wanted to go because i don't think anyone has come close to doing this. you read the fake news. it's fake and disgraceful. and they don't talk about it. i read a story in "the new york times" recently about things that we do and they say we didn't or it's just horrible. i want to say some of the things -- i don't believe any administration, any president has come even close to doing what we've done in the first 500 days. i won't even mention north korea in that. i won't even mention. that was a great -- i mean, we have a good chemistry together. kim jong-un, we have a great -- chairman kim, we have a great chemistry. we're well on our way. we signed an agreement. it said, we will begin the immediate denuclearization of north korea. it says that -- we already got back the hostages. i saw today, well, obama got back hostages, too. yeah he paid $1.8 billion to get them back, okay? they didn't say that in "the new york times," they don't say is that. but they said, obama got them back, too. yeah, but a little different. they gave him $1.8 billion in green, in cash. how do you do that as president? how do you do that? but we also -- when i was campaigning, people would come to me, and with tears in their eyes they would say, would it be possible to get back the remains of our father? would it be possible to get back the remains of family members that died in the korean war? i said, i don't exactly have a great relationship over there. this was before the election. i said, you know, that's not sounding like -- i'll tell you what, i'll try. as we're negotiating different points the other day in singapo singapore, i asked chairman kim, would it be possible to do that? the last thing i asked, do you mind, because i have many people that have written and called and spoken to me, would i be able to get the remains back from so many great heroes from so many years ago? he said, i will do that. they've already done 200 people, which is so great. so good. thank you. [ applause ] thank you. thank you very much. thank you. that's so nice. and remember, just recently i got a call from the prime minister of japan, prime minister abe. and japan is so thankful there's no rockets flying over japan. you know, they were flying right over japan. they weren't so happy. you know, the japanese are great warriors. they're are great warriors. that was not a good thing. and they're so happy that they don't have that -- they were having rockets and they were testing rockets. you haven't had a rocket or test in seven months, eight months. a long time now. it used to be every week we'd have another nuclear test, a rocket test. they have blown up their nuclear site, their testing site. they've gotten rid of in the process of getting rid of their engine site for ballistic missiles. a lot. we're developing a very special kind of a situation where hopefully in the future, because you look at locationally, you look at it from any standpoint, north korea has tremendous potential. chairman kim sees that and a lot of tremendous things are going to happen. we were really helped by south korea, president moon. we were tremendously helped by japan. we were really helped also by president xi of china with the border. now we have to work on our trade with china because it's been -- it's been very tough on our country for very many years. our presidents did nothing about it. and we probably lost last year $500 billion in trade to china. think of it, $500 billion. so, we started a process and i think that will work out with china because we have a very good relationship with the president -- with president xi. he's incredible. i think it will work out. we're working on a nafta deal. nafta has been a disaster for us. you know, mexico makes over $100 billion a year. it's hard to belief -- >> president of the united states in las vegas, nevada. we'll continue monitoring what he has to say. so far thanking republican candidates running for office in las vegas, coining a few nicknames, one of which is shady steve, talking about his relationship with chairman kim jong-un of north korea saying they have good chem sdpistry an talking about the points they negotiated in the estimates of president trump. i want to talk about the principals involved in the zero tolerance policy we've seen put in place over the last few weeks. stephen miller, who's an adviser to president trump, joining me as special correspondent for "vanity fair," bill cohen and ned price. bill cohen has written a seminole important piece about how the stephen miller has come to be. you charted his evolution, how he's become the conservative he is. are we seeing that here in relief in the policies we've seen put in place on the border? >> one thing, david, about stephen miller, he's been stephen miller that we, unfortunately, have come to know and not like so much. since his days in high school. so, this has been stephen miller for, you know, literally half of his life as one of his classmates at santa monica high school told me, he's been radicalized since he was in high school and to take him very seriously because he is a true conservative radical. i think you're seeing very much his policies that he believes in from the bottom of his heart, even though he is an immigrant, from an immigrant family. he wouldn't be here but for immigration policies of past presidentses and here he is trying to block them at the border on a daily basis. this is pure stephen miller. >> bill cohen, i want to ask you about his involvement with this issue. you chart his political evolution. professionally he worked with michele bachmann, he worked for jeff sessions, then senator, now attorney general. i'll read a bit from your piece. eventually led him to jobs in washington, d.c. first as a spokesman for two right-wing members of congress. he became a communications director for conservative alabama senator jeff sessions, now the u.s. attorney general. take us back to 2013. there was a piece of immigration legislation that stood some chance of passing here. jeff sessions was instrumental in that not happening. >> and so was stephen miller. you actually see, you know, playing out five years later exactly what they blocked five years ago. now they're trying to implement their own radical form of immigration policy and obviously it's playing out on our tv screens over the last two weeks, very detrimentally to both, i think, stephen miller and jeff sessions' image and, of course, that of the president of the united states. you notice in his talk in las vegas, president trump is trying to talk about what he did or did not accomplish in the summit last week in singapore. unfortunately, that's just not getting through anymore. what's getting through are these horrible images of separating young children from their families. >> ned price, i want to bring you into the conversation here. stephen miller has an advisory role. he has the ear of the president. what do you make of the level of influence he has? you were in the obama white house. he had many advisers, of course. it seemed like there was much more give and take, much more of a conversation about these policies. if anything strikes me about what we've seen over the last week, it's the lack of foresight about how policies ginned up by stephen miller and his colleagues can have influence? >> stephen miller certainly does seem to have the president's ear. i think that's because in many ways they are kindred spirits. on paper they don't have a lot in common. one is 32, one is 72. one is from santa monica, california, the other is from new york, new york. i think what unites these two is blind ignorance and at its core really vile bigotry. stephen miller has taken on this issue of immigration and family separation. this is also donald trump. it wasn't stephen miller who told then-candidate donald trump when announcing his presidency to speak of mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers and assuming some people are good people. it wasn't stephen miller. he had nothing do with the campaign when donald trump called for a total and complete ban on muslims entering the united states. and stephen miller wasn't calle people on both sides of the charlottesville protest honorable people. so i really think stephen millie bobby brown may be taking on a lot of this issue but i think in this case this is donald trump, this is donald trump putting forward what he believes in, unfortunately. >> ned price, thank you very much for joining us. william cohan, thank you also. i'll tweet out the piece if you're interested. we'll continue monitoring what the president is saying out in las vegas before the nevada republican party. paying attention to what he has to say with regard to immigration and immigration policy if he says anything about the subject, of course, we'll bring those to you live. up next, the duds that certainly were a dud. the backlash, first lady melania trump's jacket choice on her trip to the border with mexico. the first lady's spokesman says it's a jacket. there was no hidden message, right. it's definitely not hidden. it's right on the back and i'm going to guess this is one message she did not steal from michelle obama. some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. in the 2018 lexus es safetand es hybrid.dard lease the 2018 es 350 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget? 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[ wrapper crinkling ] get this butterscotch out of here. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. there's quite a bit of work, 'cause this was all -- this was all stapled. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. we've been following protests at the border and looking at president trump speaking in las vegas, nevada, before the nevada republican party and continue to monitor what he has to say particularly on the issue of immigration. if he begins talking about that subject which we're keenly interested in here we'll bring those to you live. speaking out there in las vegas. well, a lot of folks still wondering why melania trump wore what she wore on a trip to texas this week. that being a cargo jacket with the words "i really don't care, do you?" in faux graffiti. a spokeswoman said there was no hidden message. her clothes certainly say a lot. she wore designer stiletto on a trip to visit victims of hurricane harvey. while others have faced backlash, michelle obama's sleeveless dress in that official portrait. melania trump's east wing team includes only ten aides compared with the 25 or so who worked under michelle obama and laura bush. we have a guest who traveled with michelle obama. i went back to a piece written about michelle obama after his term. just because something appears trivial does not mean it is any less powerful as a means of persuasion and outreach. in some ways it's very triviality. the fact that everyone could talk about it, dissect it, imitate it makes fashion the most potentially viral item in the subliminal political toolbox. what do you make of what she wore? it's confounding to me to think this was an accident. >> the two questions everyone has been talking about this week is why did melania wear that and what was she thinking? it doesn't get more transparent that. she wore her heart on her back. this is how she feels about what we are not sure. was this a message to her husband, was this a somessage t the press like her husband said it was. we're not certain but what we are certain of, this was a pr nightmare. i don't know how she managed to leave the white house in this jacket. where were her handlers? where were her people? yes, she may only have ten aides but one person should have pulled her aside and said absolutely not. you cannot wear that jacket. michelle obama's team was very clear about what she wore, the significance of what she wore. they understood the fact that michelle obama represented both the country, her family and the world and she used her fashion to telegraph messages of strength and telegraph messages of fiscal responsibility. think about it. she came to power in the midst of the recession. michelle obama made it a point to wear both high fashion and, quote/unquote, low fashion and mix a belt with a j. crew skirt and wore a cardigan to meet the queen from j. crew. she understood appearing in clothing unattainable to the masses was not the message she wanted to send at that time when they were losing their jobs and hopes so for melania not to understand the significance of that jacket is really, really mind-boggling and very unsettling. >> i want to debt your impressions about how she, melania trump, approaches fashion? her background is in modeling and has been of that world, of the fashion world. she sent messages before. she wore that white pantssuit to the first state of the union address her husband gave so we had the same sort of conversation about what cryptic message she might be sending then. what is your sense of how she regards fashion and thinking about costs and the egalitarian nature, how do you think she approaches it. >> jacketgate which is what i dubbed this, melania is not known for wearing low fashion. she is a woman who embraced dolce and ga than ba, balenciega. how she ended up with a $39 from zara, did she buy it? was it given to her? get on that, david. that's the mystery. >> thank you very much. lolaogunnaike, thank you. join me again at 2:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m. and follow me on twitter and instagram. the news continues with my friend and colleague who also knows high fashion. richard liu. >> i think i'm on the other end. but appreciate you being a person of high fashion and high intellect. i appreciate it, my friend. hello to all of you. low fashion guy, i guess. as the debate over immigration intensifies today president trump is in the swing state of nevada help egg to fund raise and rally voters. speaking right now in front of hundreds of supporters at the nevada republican party convention in las vegas. we have been listening and vaughn hilliard who has been there at the event this week in the suncoast hotel and ka seen very. what are some points he has made so far. >> he said yesterday in a tweet that congressional republicans should stop working on immigration legislation and he said here just now that he thinks it's a good issue for republicans in the midterm elections and said here he nicknamed jackie, the rosen, the congresswoman running against dean heller here, whack acky ja. she was there
very good saturday to you. i'm richard liu. thanks for being with us. you had to shed tears in washington. washington's most powerful elite pay their final respects to senator john mccain in his own way. >> we mourn the passing of an america's bravest, real thing, not cheap rhetoric of men who will never come to sacrifice so willingly or a misappropriation of those who live the lives of comfort and privilege while he suffered and served. >> right now i think the is deriveing some pleasure that it turned out the fact his funeral was held on a saturday and i had to walk to get here. [ music playing ] >> he was honest, no matter whom it offended. presidents were not spared. he was honorable, always recognizing that his opponents were still patriots and human beings. he loved freedom with the passion of a man who knew it absence. >> john understood, as jfk understood, as ronald reagan understood, that part of what makes our country great is that our membership is based not on our blood line, not on what we look like, what our last names are, it's not based on where our parents or grandparents came from or how recently they arrived, but on adherence to a common creed, that all of us are created equal. it's been an emotional day in our nation's capitol. you saw a bit of what happened, just more than an hour or so ago, senator union mccain is laid to rest. the casket transported by an honor guard to a waiting motorcade for a memorial service earlier today. the vehicles then stopped just for people at the vietnam war veterans memorial where cindy mccain, accompanied by chief of staff john kelly and secretary of state james mattis by her side lay a wreath in the senator's honor. the memorial a washington's who's who there at the national cathedral, completely orchestrated by senator john mccain, himself, some viewing the day as his final campaign light sendoff. >> after what way to get a last laugh than to get george and i say nice things about him to a national audience. >> you can tell admittedly, they were saying, jeff bennett, yeah, maybe he was doing that, admiral james stavrides, diplomacy analyst, i could not help but note the laugh and the camaraderie, jeff bennett, as you were watching those sitting in the pews, it was republican, democrat, democrat, cent risris centrist. man, womd, old, new -- woman, old, new, they were all there. >> reporter: it was a reminder of true american ideals, true american values. all of the grace notes emanating from the national cathedral. i think it proved to be catharctic for most of america no matter how petty our politics prove to be. i think senator mccain's daughter, set the tone, meg him, for all of his tieshlths war hero, senate, candidate, she loved him best as a father and peppered her eulogy with jabs at president trump. it was lovely and lyrical. here's a bit of what she said this morning. >> for the rest of my life, whenever i fall down, i'd get back up. whenever i am hurt, i'd drive on. whenever i am brought low, i rise, that is not because i am uniquely virtuous or strong or resilient. it is simply because my father, john mccain, was. >> reporter: so you see that raw emotion on her face. and there were flashes of rage there, too, later on in her eulogy. she said the america of john mccain has no need to be made great again because america was always great. she didn't mention donald trump by fame. she didn't have to. everyone in that room and everyone watching knew precisely about whom she was talking, richard. >> part of this, admiral, as jeff is noting the family so important to the senator john mccain and also his military experience, so important as his wife cindy mccain stopping at the memorial along with two of the most powerful individuals in the cabinet there to lay a wreath. the importance of that experience not only to senator john mccain and who he became, but also what it meant to both his daughter, as other children and his wife, admiral. >> indeed, richard. we should remember how grounded in the military this family is. when you saw cindy mccain looking absolutely beautiful there, wearing that small device she was wearing on her black dress of mourning, those are the wings of a naval aviator. right next to her a naval aviator in white, stopping at the vietnam memorial the nation lost a great leader. above all the mccain family has lost a husband and a father. but the navy and our military has also lost an individual who meant a great deal to us. so when you see jim mattis and john kelly wearing civilian clothes standing with cindy pittsburgh cane, you should remember just three years ago those were two four star officers in the armed forces. i assure you the armed forces today mourn the loss of senator mccain. >> that will never be as much as the family and it doesn't perhaps mean as much as a nation. but his military service, we are all very proud of. if i could, ply the u.s. navy, he'll be buried at annapolis next to his classmate and best friend admiral chuck larsen. it's a sad day for the navy but a meaningful and moving day for our armed forces because of the likes of john mccain. >> admiral, i was going to say that which you said at the end of that, although it is a tough day for those who have served or currently served, how inspirational he is in this moment that we're able to reflect on what he has done. you see his son in dressed whites there also. he was saying to the military family, how proud those who serve today must be with individuals leak this and what they can do. >> reporter: exactly. let me add another dimention to it. which is one we haven't talked about as much perhaps appropriately. but john mccain was also known deeply internationally him i took him several times to afghanistan when i was supreme allied company of nato. i traveled with him and senator graham and other members of the congressional delegation. i went with him over the last five years to the munich security conference to see the real reference and respect afforded senator mccain by the international world was also a real asset for the united states and one we will miss going forward. >> on that photo, you know, i traveled not with him. but i was there at the german marshall fund there in brussels forum and there with he was addressing again european leaders, of policy and military, very well respected. a voice that needed to be heard and was much revered and this is over the last four or five years. so certainly one of those voice when it came to u.s. policy abroad and other theaters as you just noted. jeff bennett, you heard president obama sort of intimate this and certainly george w. bush as well. >> that, you know, this potentially could have been or is or will be senator john mccain's final campaign and i noted when i first was reaching out to you how in the pews you saw everything of perk there or representation of that idea and what it might b. and that, therefore, he is thinking, i want to lead with a push to what i think is good. >> that idea fighting that was brought up during many of the statements there that he wanted his daughter to show the world that she was a fighter. i think was he saying, i want to show everybody in america that we should be fighters? >> it's a great point. it's made all the more reverent when you learn this was a service that he choreographed himself. every decision was intentional. of course, we heard president obama elevate john mccain as an example that all americans should look to,ing to better, to answer the call to service the call to duty n. this current moment to answer the call to decency. i think we have a bit more of what former president obama had to say. we can take a look at it. >> it looks like we don't have that right now, jeff. we will get it for you next time. >> reporter: one other point i think is worth noting, barack obama brought us into a couple private moments, he said when the camera was off and no one was paying attention he and the senator had longs talks about the politics of the day in the oval office the two didn't always agree, yet they walked away knowing both of them were on the same team and working for a common good. >> finally, as we finish the part of the segment. he also rae zealand, senator john mccain reledgieousity we saw it with the faith that he will keep quiet. he was careful with his faith along years and decades, which is admirable for itself as well. jeff bennett at the white house, senator james stavrides, thank you very much. we'll talk more about this later. coming up, it is september 1st. rudy guiliani's long-held deadline for robert mueller's probe has, well, it's arrived and will probably go, too. this new plan now to discredit the russia investigation. and an about face from former campaign adviser george papadopoulos, who he is now throwing under the bus in an attempt to kip out on jail time maybe. welcome back. do you remember this from rudy guiliani? >> if it isn't over by september, then we have a very, very serious violation of the justice department rules. >> all right. so just looking down at your watch or your phone right now, today is september 1st and the russia probe is not over yet. in fact, it's ratcheting up each more gentleman pleas, it appears with xormer campaign adviser george papadopoulos admitting to lying to the feds as his attorneys pleaded for leniency left at his sentencing next week. we wrote. next week we wrote the master they're referring to, although not specifically said, most likely the president of the united states and as if that's not enough, there is now new reporting from the ap on a conversation between trump dossier you a tore chris steele and trump's favorite target as of now, doj bruce orr representative. orr reportedly told congress this week in 2016 steame told him russian intelligence believe they, rather that donald trump quote had donald trump over a barrel. let's bring in our guest, editor-in-chief at politico, reporter for the fix at the washington post and a former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor. so let's start with you on the, blake, and it's been a very busy week. what would you say stand out the most? we can start with papadopoulos, that's the most recent development we've had in the last 24 hours. why are they trying to at least at this point say he wants leniency in so many word but also he's not as important as people think he is? >> you know when papadopoulos first surfaced as a subject of the investigation, the trump folks dismissed him as the coffeeboy and his wife at the time was proposing the idea, actually you know he was really important, setting up these meetings, jeting around the world on behalf of the campaign, his lawyers were saying maybe he was the coffeeboy, he's not so important. if you look at the document last night, they call him george almost as if to present him as this naive inge nou that got in over his head. >> they said it is important to the remember what special counsel said of garbage's plea of g. he was a small part of a large scale investigation, according to attorneys. >> i was going to say they did slip in the knife when they said he proposed a meeting with putin, trump nodded and jeff sessions, who was affiliated with the campaign at the time said he would follow up, that was something a little of a surprise on a friday evening. >> there was also what happened with lobbyist sam patton linked to manafort, pleading guilty for failing to register as a foreign agent, now he will cooperate with mueller, sam patton, when you look at this year, eugene, another development as the special counsel moves forward. >> exactly. this is the latest in the trump campaign individuals were involved in lobbying efforts with foreign governments that were in investigation of our laws here in the states and were of special concern to the special counsel. it's a concern to america as a whole. it brings into how the foreign policy is being influenced perhaps by some of the agreements and relationships that were made by people on the campaign an foreign governments. these are just some of the beginnings of what we can expect to see more of, consider wack we have seen from microsoft so fan and those that worked with him. >> eyes vanjoyce vance, it's go have you here. can you tell us c this was a good deal or fought such a good deal in those moves, what do you make of papadopoulos as well as patton? >> they're really interesting in the fact that the doj has to stand down after the artificial june 1 date guiliani proposed. what we will see is processes in motion will continue forward. president trump is not on the ballot. manafort will go to trial in september. george papadopoulos will be sentenced. we will see a trick him of details there and this interesting news of yesterday that sam patten is cooperating with the investigation. >> that timing looks like we will see patten potentially as a witness in the manafort trial. he, of course, knew manafort for years. their work overlapped in many ways him he may have a part to tell in the story of the evidence that will be used in that trial some although mueller and his versions will make every effort to do nothing that would influence an investigation, this doesn't mean they have to take vacation for the next 60 days and stop working. >> it does not appear to be happening that way. another development just within the last week is that we heard that chris steele the author of that dos career that's been talked about the last two kweye or so, at least in our spaces, telling bruce orr, the lawyer from the doj that president trump does not leak clearly based on his tweets and statements, but evident ally steele telling orr russian intelligence had trump quote over a barrel. so the question, what does over a barrel? we know what it means coloquially you are in trouble or a threat. >> yeah, i think it probably is intended to mean the russians have some sort of compromising information on president trump and, know if you look at what the critics of bruce orr have been saying, saying that he handled this dossier and sent it to his superiors, what justice department official wouldn't alert his bosses when he gets a rocket like that? it seems like he did the appropriate thing to me. >> the result of this, you jeeu this bears investigation, 63% support mueller's russia investigation, according to poll. and this is job approval. 60% approving. i'm alluding to again the mueller-russia investigation. 62 percent support him in this poll. 29% oppose it. so it appears that despite some of the protestations coming from the president that much of america is saying, this needs to happen. >> absolutely. and this has always been the case despite the protests we have coming out of the white house. the american public has seen enough that raises concerns where they would want to see this investigation go to the very end. these increased number of indictments and expected synthesis have raised alarm for many voters who are genuinely concerned about the influence of russia not only in the 2016 election but in future elections and american government as a whole. they hope to get to the bottom of this. the idea that this investigation should end and end soon, it's one that most americans clearly do not support. >> chrjoyce vance, hoping that robert mueller may be listening in a small way that he will move faster, that he will come to a conclusion based open tear time lines but fought likely, right? >> it's completely unlikely. prosecutors do their work outside of the glare of public pressure on the work that they do. look, this is what prosecutors on mueller's team will do him they will continue to look at all of the evidence to compile what they need and sift through it. when they believe they've reached a point that they can prove beyond a jury in a courtroom to a reasonable doubt, nay will go ahead and indict. they will do their jobsch that's who they are. >> yes this special counsel is moving by previous standard at a faster rate in terms of what eve seen so far. joyce vance, thank you ugene scott thank you as well. still ahead, president trump issues a thank you to the justice department and fbi if things don't go his way and throws more certainty into jeff session's future as attorney general. . f session's future as atto rney general. does this map show the peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? 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[ coughs ] ♪ ♪ [ screams ] ♪ [ laughs ] ♪ whoa, whoa, whoa. your one item would be the name your price tool? it helps people save on car insurance. why wouldn't it save me? why? what would you bring? a boat. huh. thanks for staying with us him we have this just in from the "new york times," they work with the fbi on a secret program to flip russian oligarchs, including none other than a leg darrasproska, from roughly a half dozen of the richest men tied to vladimir putin. if you watch that news, president trump or rather president trump continues his assault on his embattled attorney general this week turning them to turn on jeff sessions telling bloomberg news he doesn't plan to fire sex any time before the mid-term election, when asked if he will keep him on, he point of viewts to the mueller probe blasting it as illegal to spend the morning of senior john mccain's funeral tweeting again on the investigation as mueller got another trump aide to plead guilty. let's start at the research institute and double ability and a former senior adviser to the senior relations committee, jameill jaffer. all right, my friend, what do you think on this, this new report that came out from the new york "times" according to what ken vogle is reporting the fbi and bruce ohr working along together were trying to see how they might get russian oligarchs on to well flip on our side if you would, the u.s. side. what is this process like? and why would they want it? >> this is a very interesting development. we need to understand when we talk about.laundering when it comes to russia, there is a different perspective they have on this. for russia, laundering money is how russian intelligence can move money into places they want to effect operation, when you think of oligarchs or business men that might run a cash business, they recruit with an asset unlike le the purpose to check intelligence, russian intelligence recruits people with lapdering, that is to move russian money. the idea of him flipping is fascinating, it would give a line potentially into trump and russian operations to move that mine. >> jam imjaeill javers, this is interesting argument to convince oligarchs. >> in a progressive effort by u.s. government to turn russians against itself and get into the orbit of vladimir putin and figure out what is going on. it's unclear if it succeeded, they may not have. clearly a strongest by the government to figure out what's happening inside the russian corley class. >> now, bruce ohr is an important character for what we discussed so far, even in just this past hour in that we have again the new reporting coming out about the over a barrel comment that chris steele reportedly had told bruce ohr, when we look at where bruce ohr is, yet, this is another story lean we are learning he is a part of this process of understanding how russians may be involved in influencing our election or our, our, our very structures. >> let's think about the profile for recruiting someone with the intent of helping russian intelligence move money. >> that i will look for something potentially sole pro p sole proprietor that takes cash. it would not be surprising russia would have targeted someone like donald trump. the early donald trump, he was a hospitality and business. there is nothing illegal. understanding what the relationship is, how money was moved, would give us an interpretation of where he is going i have a strong suspicion he is looking at perhaps money laundering and perhaps donald trump. >> what is clear as we move on to jeff sessions as we move into this very segment is the president at this moment telling bloomberg news, he doesn't plan to fire sessions before the mid-terms, but it is definitely taking up a lot of mind space still. >> absolutely. you know the president has been very clear he obviously has concerns with the way jeff sessions is running the justice department. he's been extremely aggressive on twitter, going after jeff sessions and going after hillary clinton and e-mails, all that other stuff. at the end of the day the challenge for the president, he said, under my watch, i will not be influenced by political considerations, if you want that to happen you have to fire me. if you fire him the next person is rod rosen steevenl it's a challenge for the president, he has to fire a lot of people if he wants to get the leadership he wants. then the senate and there is a lot ahead if the president goes down this road. >> if he goes down this road, rosenstein is up next. do you get anywhere? you have to go through rosenstein next. >> that's exactly right. i fake a give approach. i think trump is actually scared from the fallout of firing comey. i think the hammer is impressed on him this is not something he should go down with. i don't know what's behind it but i would be surprised to foopd he fires jeff sessions. >> there is also a development again here about what we learned about sam patattend a miting he was using strong donors to buy trump inaugural tickets for russian ukrainian. that's another element from the outside according to sam patten influencing that as well as what's happening inside. >> look, obviously, mueller is building a indicates here there was a lot of activity going on, people close to the trumporb tr orbit, associated with paul manafort and a russian ambassador or agent, the beat knows more about. that liten, mueller is building up a story here. what i think is really interesting. we haven't heard a lot object what mike flynn has been saying. mike flynn has been talking to the prosecutors for a long time, i think interesting stories from that conversation right now. >> to finish this off, this is all about the way one government is trying to influence another and the reasons they are trying to build. we were leading a segment youof with bruce ohr trying to flip oem gas, russia heret this united states for instance you had recent conversations about how to if you will launder money in the united states to deep infrastructure. >> when you have a conversation where almost everything is for sale and russia has money to spend you have a perfect marriage. allowing russia to gain a foothold the fact that these persons were buying tickets for the inauguration, it may seem like small thing. it gives an iningof how they can buy access. >> thank you for joining us today. we'll be right back. you for jo today. we'll be right back. with my bladder leakage, the products i've tried just didn't fit right. they were very saggy. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with new sizes, depend fit-flex is made for me. introducing more sizes for better comfort. new depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. (burke) so we know how to cover almost anything.en almost everything even "vengeful vermin." not so cute when they're angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. well, president trump's disapproval rating is at a new high with some 60% of americans now saying they disapprove of mr. trump's job appearance according to a poll in the washington post, trump blasting those numbers claiming polls in the washington post were the least accurate in the 2016 election. that's the tip of the iceberg in a week of hot button issues that left many scratching their head. a former spokes woman for the california republican party and contributor for the hymn. so let's start with poll numbers first off, philippe, now they appear at least when you take a look in terms of those who are supporting that which is happening with the mueller investigation, numbers are at 63%, supporting it. pretty consistent here at the moment. >> yeah, i think you hit the nail on the head the disapproval 60 again 36 for shouldn't surprise anyone, the guy is doing a terrible job. it's a little reassuring americans see that. there is movement in that. we focus on the 36% as this minority rule. it's good every now and then too reminds ourselves that's not the case the numbers are fascinating. before anyone on the right not to accuse jen, diminishes the poll. fox news poll of all places found that mueller's approval is spiking up. this is fascinating because the president not only relentlessly attacks mueller and sessions, he was doing it very, very effectively. something happened where the bottom fell out the third point is exactly that. i think the white house has missed something about the cohen and manafort situation where they try to jam it into the same you know witchhunt frame. it's not. it's something tangible. it's not russia. it's the swamp and cohen is his own guy it's harder to lob that this. i think you can see the effects that it's having. >> jen. >> well, first let's talk about polk accuracy. the abc news-washington post poll the fight before the election the eve of the election actually had hillary clinton up anywhere from 7 to 10 points f. that were true, philippe would be doing the daily press briefings. >> she won by self million votes. >> that's not how we do that in this country. >> i don't think that's trying to discredit abc news and the wag post and their ability to try to get the right numbers is the wright toy approach this. >> the numbers don't lie. >> let's get straight to the point here. >> that is 63% support the mueller investigation. what do you think that says about where we are at today other than that comment? >> well, i do agree with my democratic opponent here, indo think the white house has missed this cohen and manafort trial situation. if you look at when president trump was actually beating mueller in approval ratings this past spring as late as april i read about this in the hill, mueller's approval rating was down ten points from the previous november. that was a time when president trump was doing his 100 day public campaign talking to the american people about components of the russia investigation. so i think he is right there in terms of the cohen angle, i think that the white house ought to not be saying, well, he wasn't our guy. maybe a better message point would be well, michael cohen wasn't the buy the i thought he was, maybe that's a better approach tom say a guy that was your personal adviser and attorney for that long that he wasn't your eye, i think philippe is right there. i don't think that flies with the american people. every second pollster got the 2016 presidential election race wrong and to a major degree they called eight quote/unquote landslide coming. three pollsters got it right. abc was fought one of them. >> let's not relitigate. what are you alluding to is not accurate when we look at the numbers. i don't think we need to go after that again. let's not do that, let's move on to something else that might be reflective of the numbers we are talking about the 63% supporting the mueller investigation. what that might mean in terms of the political temperature oak and the results tlochlt all you have to do is go to florida and the result again of the primaries there and then the reaction from one -- well, from the republican nominee there and what he said. let's listen to what desantis said on fox news. >> the last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state. >> all right. >> that in reaction ago ento to democratic nominee, african-american, using the word monkeying it up, not the phrase but can be seen as very derogatory if you are african-american. this surprised many. at the moment the republican nominee would fought linot like least at this moment address it. he says there is nothing wrong with that. >> i think what you are seeing here all these republican candidates are trying to emulate trump. the problem is are they going to get away with it like trump does? trump has this political weeble wobble, he doesn't fall down. i don't know if someone like desantis can do that, if you look at roy moore it won't work the jam that he wouldn't support it the people that support him would be upset with him is a terrible dynamic. have you the additional, this is not a one off. i think the comment speaks for itself. i don't think he uses the term often. he has been found moderating hate facebook pages. this is not. i don't think he's going on tv and saying i'm going to do something racist, but they know they can get away wit like donald trump does the question is, can they? i don't think whatever trump has is transferrable to these people. >> yen. >> well the candidate who needs message training please stands up, philippe and i are still available. i can't believe that candidates in the year 20s 18 are still making comments like. this now i do believe i know ron desantis, i don't think this is what's in his heart, but the fact that you can utter a statement like this when your opponent is an african-american is a real head scratcher here. look, but i think the real results of this race will actually come down to one thing. that is that the democratic opponent in this case has a sort of special counsel problem of his own. there is an investigation into corruption at his city hall him rehas not yet been implicated. i think he will be. >> let me guess, desantis will start chanting lock him up. let's see if it works for anyone other trump. >> thank you both so much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, colin caper knick scores a touch joun against the nfl, stands, neil, stay in the locker room. voters weigh in on the national anthem protests. n on the nation anthem protests. here we go. discover. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover. lojust use priceline.ls on travel? you can save up to 60% on hotels. that's like $120 a night back in your pocket. go to priceline to get deals you won't find anywhere else. we're just days away from the official kickoff of the 2018 nfl season and the ongoing dispute between the league and its players over their right to froes the national anthem does not seem to be coming to an end soon. addi ining more uncertainty, co kaepernick's collusion case which thanks to a new court ruling is headed to trial. joining me now, writers for the nation. tyler, what do you think of the latest development. >> a lawyer described to me in the l.a. area that deals with the intersection of sports and social justice and she told me takes major win for colin kaepernick and the entire side of the kaepernick coalition when it comes to fighting this collusion case bay the nfl the nfl tried to introduce a summary judgment which is fairly standard to elongate the process just in case kaepernick is long for legal fees. but ckaeperniccakaepernick obvid we'll move to a more hearing and more evidence. the biggest thing of why this is a major win is is that there is smoke. if there is smoke obviously there is fire. so anyone who ever believed that maybe the nfl did not collude collectively against colin kaepernick now has to be more silenced. and he has been legally blackballed and can on no longer play football again. >> and based on the latest development, david, does it show that there might be enough evidence or not enough in evidence for this case of collusion? >> well, it is a high bar to prove collusion. you have to prove that the commissioner and a member of ownership were in discussion to actively deny kaepernick a job or more than one other than were in discussion together. and you need tangible proof of that. you need to have e-mails, you need to have someone to be a whistle blower. but this is one case to take something tyler said that when you have a smoking gun, that means smoke and that means fire. so this is a huge victory for kaepernick and the smart thing for nfl owners would be to settle, to get this off the front pages as the new season starts. but they are not going to do it for two reasons. first of all, i don't think kaepernick would settle because for him this is much bigger than just a paycheck, this is a social justice issue. and the second reason, i really do believe this, is that the owners have so much invested in turning kaepernick into a cautionary tale for this current generation of players to not protest that for them backing off at this point would be basically to say that players do have rights beyond which oirn will prescribe to help. >> on the outside of all of there are the polls. and i'll share one data a point from nbc news "wall street journal" poll. majority saying that kneeling during the anthem is not appropriate, the numbers are no, not appropriate 54%. yes, it is appropriate 43%. so i guess we'll see how this arc goes as the season does start. and no doubt owners and players are watching. >> nothing has really changed. football is getting richer. owners are getting richer and the conservative vehicle that has kept football very white and very -- it won't move when it comes to black issues. it is the exact same thing. the fan base the white consume arer ship believes that kneeling is still a bad thing. and yet we've consistently strayed away from the actual cause of why we are here. black people are being killed disproportionately by believe. inequality is the same as it has always been. nothing has changed in the country for people color specifically black people as it leads to now. so that is why you have colin kaepernick around two years aing a sgoe tago take a knee and do e thing numerous have done for the entirety of american history. and show that there is a problem. that we need to at least get equaled before we get the rest of the rights back. >> all right. we have to leave it there. coming up next, a final sendoff in washington for an american patriot. n for an american patriot. got directions to the nightclub here. and if you get lost, just hit me on the old horn. man: tom's my best friend, but ever since he bought a new house... tom: it's a $10 cover? oh, okay. didn't see that on the website. he's been acting more and more like his dad. come on, guys! jump in! the water's fine! tom pritchard. how we doin'? hi, there. tom pritchard. can we get a round of jalapeño poppers for me and the boys, please? i've been saving a lot of money with progressive lately, so... progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. but we can protect your home and auto you're smart,eat you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. it helps block six key inflammatory substances. most pills block one. flonase sensimist. i'm richard lui. right here at msnbc headquarters, thanks for being with us. a solemn day in the nation's capital. one last good-bye to john mccain. his legacy honored. meanwhile at the white house, it was business as usual. president trump firing off a roind of tweets attack the fbi and department of justice criticizing their leaders whom he appointed as being out to lunch. plus, papadopoulous flipping the script. former adviser now admits to lying to two if i recalie ing to federals agents to get o. he was honest. no matter whom it offended. president trumps were not spared. he was honorable. always recognizing that his opponents were still patriots. >> and president trump bush and i are among the fortunate few who competed against john at the highest levels of politics. he made us better presidents. since of humor. a little bit of a mischievous streak. after all what better way to get a last laugh than to make goshlg and i say nice things about him
i'm richard liu. ee ayman and yasmin have the day off. the minnesota primary for governor, commissioner jeff johnson easily defeated tim pawlenty, a former two-term governor. he will face congressman tim walz then in wisconsin democrat tony evers one in a crowded eight-way primary for governor. the school superintendent is up against scott walker, who is seeking a third term. >> in connecticut, 2006 u.s. senate nominee ned lamont claimed the nominee for governor my. a former ge registered democrat and history was made last night at democratic candidate for vermont governor christine hallquist is the first transgender. democrat a marwyns the minneapolis house seat -- om omarwins. we show president trump's net negative approval rating in double digits in each of the polls. now the latest polling about the russia probe. 58% believe the investigation into russian efforts is a serious matter. a shocking grand jury report is rocking from fas from pennsye vatican, hundreds of predator priests in pennsylvania. if the abuse was covered up by senior church officials. anne thompson has more. >> reporter: in searing damage language, the grand jury report revealed the dark secrets of pennsylvania. priests were wrang little boys and girls and the men of good who were responsible, did nothing, hid it all. >> it was child, sexual abuse, including rape, committed by grown men. priests. against children. >> reporter: the report found over 1,000 child victims identified in the church's own records. the alleged crimes often described as inappropriate contact or ground u boundary issues. >> reporter: she says she was angry, she came forward in 2002 the church said it was hiring a private investigator. >> i found out today it wasn't him they were looking at, they were looking at me. >> reporter: the report finding a pattern among the bishop and church leaders. the main thing was not to help children but avoid scandal. it names more than 300 predator priests in six diocese from one end of the state to the other. home to more than 1.7 million catholics. almost every instance of abuse too old to be prosecuted but the investigation did result in two priests being criminally charged with sexually assaulting children during the past decade, from the die see, apologies. >> i ask you, the church asks you for forgiveness. >> reporter: but for some, words are not enough. >> people want total transparency. they want the bishops to report what happened, why it happened and how they will make sure it never happens again. >> reporter: many of those same bishops and their past handling of abuse cases are implicated in this investigation, including cardinal donald wuerl, the foreman bishop of pittsburgh. wuerl now in washington says he acted with diligence, concerned for victims and to prevent future abuse. >> just a shocking story, our thanks to ann thompson for that report. the white house is revealing comments about omarosa newman, trump lashed out calling her a dog. here's what the press secretary had to say about that. >> the president has said similar things about a number of individuals, certainly, that are not african-american or any other minority. i can simply talk to you about policies and the person that the president is. i think if again the person that a lot of his critics say he is certainly wouldn't have been in business with him for decades, certainly wouldn't have had bill and hillary clinton. they attended his wedding. i think he has made a number of comments about plenty of people and to try to single that out to one group is frankly silly. i think if you did a comparison, he's probably got a lot more nasty things out there about some other people. >> the president called you a dog this morning. what's your reaction? >> i think it shows you, if he would say that publicly, what else would he say about me privately? he has no respect for women, for african-americans as evidenced by him to instruct the chief of staff to lock me two hours in the six room to harass me, threaten me and say things could get very ugly for me and there would be damage to he reputation. he is unfit to be in this office and to serve as the president of the united states. >> republicans senator jeff flake is weighing in on the president's tweet as well, writing this kind of language is unbecoming of a president of the united states. there is no excuse for it and republicans should not be okay with it. meanwhile, the press secretary yesterday also could not confirm whether or not president trump has ever used the "n" word as omarosa has claimed. >> can you stand at the podium and guarantee the american people they'll never hear donald trump utter the "n" word on a recording in any context? >> i can't guarantee anything, but ki tell you that the president addressed this question directly. i can tell you that i've never heard it. >> well, now the trump campaign has taken legal action against omarosa in the form of an ash trath complaint, claiming she violated a 2016 confidentiality agreement. the reality tv star turned white house official she says she doesn't believe it's breached. there is white house secrecy agreement. omarosa says she did not sign that official contract but not every white house official was as forthcoming. >> did you sign an nda? >> i'm in the going to get into the back and forth on who has signed an nda in the white house. ki tell you it's common in a lot of places for employment for people to sign ndas, particular in government with people with security clearance. >> let me tell you what it says about the eggs pression of loyalty or lack thereof. why do people have to be contracted to never say anything negative about the president, any member of his family or product they should produce. why is that necessary? >> loose, again, it's common in a lot of -- >> corporations, protecting corporate interest. >> it's also despite the contrary penalties, it's actually very normal and under every administration prior to the trump administration has had ndas, particularly specific for anywith than you had a security clearance. this white house is certainly no longer -- >> all right. here's a thing. quick fact check on the claim you just heard that ndas are standard at the white house. that's not true according to past administration official there is. mbz news is told there are restrictions on releasing highly classified or sensitive information. those things fall under a security clearance and not an nda. i want to bring in from washington, a senior writer, neil lessnewski. when you hear snowball, these recordings, from omarosa could turn into an avalanche, by some stills, could bring down the president. do you agree with that assertion and if anything, what kind of legal trouble could this mean for the white house and the president? >> well, i think the first question is really going to be how much of what omarosa is saying on television and in her new book is actually even beyond that what she's already told to the special counsel's office to robert mueller and company, because of the revelation that she's now made that she has been in contact with them. so the question of whether or not some of this is unsavory versus how much of this is potentially a legal matter or something that frankly if the democrats take back control of the house in 2018 or for 2019, whether or not we're going to see omarosa called to testify before the house judiciary committee or something. that's kind of where this could turn from just sort of a normal circus into something beyond that. >> neil, it could be a circus of security, potentially here, with that recording making it out with the chief of staff. leon pa net that saying -- panet that saying this is a breach. >> remember, there was this prohibition supposedly imposed on cell phones, personal cell phones in the west wing. we're not entirely sure yet exactly how much omarosa was recording, where, but it does raise all sorts of questions about what sort of electronic equipment may have been available or may have been in secure locations that could theoretically have been hacked by someone outside entity. the other thing, of course, is, you know, if there are, in fact, recordings that omarosa has of all sorts of other meetings, back to the point about robert mueller, that could all be evidence if there is any sort of criminal proceeding or other sort of proceeding that goes on. those may all be subpoenaed. >> yeah, lots of folks wondering what is omarosa's editorial calendar? we will all be following it. thank you. . ahead for you, we are following the latest on the deadly bridge collapse in italy. overnight, workers have been digging through rubble there hoping to find survivors. later, closing arguments are set to begin on the paul manafort trial after his legal team rested their case without calling any witnesses, including manafort to the stand. we will have those stories and a check of weather when we come right back. 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cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with... ...an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts,... ...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. welcome back. at least 37 people are dead following a catastrophic bridge collapse in italy. yesterday in what one eyewitness describes as an apocalyptic scene, it looks like a bridge having fallen more than 450 feet is made up of shopping centers, factories and homes. dozens of cars and heavy trucks were on the bridge at the time. officials say a pillar collapsed and a witness tells italian media lightning struck the bridge before the collapse. and at least 11 people have been rescued from the rubble. an investigation has been launched. i believe that number will rise as far as those rescued. >> absolutely. nato allies, the united states and turkey continue to dissolve. turkey's president erdogan is calling for turks to boycott u.s. electronics, calming out apple, specifically. ironically, as the "new york times" points out two years ago when erdogan appealed to supporters during a coup attempt, he fused facetime, that's the apple video chat app. he is often frequently seen with an iphone, it comes between an ongoing standoff between u.s. pastor andrew brunson. the u.s. sanctioned two top officials over the situation and last week increased sanctions on turkish metals. yesterday, turkey raised a host of u.s. goods, including tobacco to 60%. u.s. cars to 120%. u.s. alcohol to a whopping 140%. all of this comes as the turkish economy continues to be in a freefall with the turkish lira falling to lows and selling spree of turkish debt. they say the policies and management are to blame for the crisis. erdogan repeatedly is to blame for an influence. the united states currently does not have an ambassador to turkey. all right. let's get a check of your weather with bill kierans. bill, you are tracking rain in the middle of the country this morning. >> that's where the flash flood is. we had rain along the finger lakes and central new york. here's some of the damage that was done. some of the rainfall totals were 6 inches in about one-to-two hours. seneca lake, they had significant flooding. look how high that water was. there were some water rescues that were needed. so we will do it again. this time we are focused on the ozarks. we've had numerous rounds of heavy rain and new thunderstorms are now moving from oklahoma towards areas into northern oklahoma and northern arkansas and southern portions of missouri, too. right up to 44. that's heavy for st. louis. here's where the heavy rainfall will be. the area of red is up to two inches. there is a possibility that areas of portsmouth and little rock, this will be a soaking rain with storms later today from southern illinois through indianapolis. indianapolis, you start dry. same goes for chicago, too. let's try to time this out. this is at 8:00 a.m. this morning. that area from st. louis to springfield continued with that thunderstorm three. notice it's spotty in northern illinois. as we go through the lunch hour that heavy rain in st. louis is coming to an end. chicago is dry by your lunch hour as we head towards the afternoon dry, these are sneaking up there into the southern portions of wisconsin. again, it will not be an all out, all day rain in those areas you will get periods of rain. the forecast, finally a dry day from new york, baltimore, d.c., raleigh, atlanta, included. it's upper-like, there is a lot of grounds moisture, it will feel humid out there. i don't think anyone will complain in boston. tomorrow looks nice for the eastern seaboard. typical summertime storms we add thad murky pattern. >> we had a break from that. we had a poungd around here yesterday, phil. >> still ahead, good old fashioned baseball brawl and perhaps the most unique way of staying tool in the summcool in. that's back in a bit. hall quist. welcome back. time for sports. three days after the maryland head football coach dj durcan was placed on administrative leave the school addressed the ongoing investigation of the heat stroke death of 19-year-old jordan mcnair at a workout earlier this summer. take a listen. >> the university assessed legal and moral responsibility for the mistakes that our training staff made on that fateful workout day of may the 29th, which, of course, led subsequently to his death. >> and the school says trainers never took mcnair's temperature or iced him down, steps that experts say could have saved his life, with coach durcan and members of his staff placed on administrative leave. the school is parting ways amid-allegations that staff berated players when showing signs of exhaustion. all right, turning now to major leak baseball. a scary moment in oak last fight, seattle james paxton is hit with pa 96-mile-per-hour on the arm, he backs down in obvious pain and has to exit the game there in the 1st inning. that one looks like it hurt. let's go to atlanta, the braves, enjoying the leadoff spot. stock market his third leadoff home run in as many games. it's the fifth he's homered in, making the 20-year-old the youngest to do. so he adds another home run in the 7ing inning as the braves go on to boat the marlins 10-6. he is on fire. things got crazy in california last night the dodgers faced off against the giants in more ways than one. they had some choice words for each other, which eventually led to a shove and a shove from puig. both puig and hunley were ejected from the game. it was fairly brutal on the field. you don't see that every day. let's go back to moment for a lesson on how to stay cool on the dog days of summer. perry hymn uses a wet piece of lettuce in his helmet each inning. he revealed cabbage sits better. frances informed me babe ruth used to use cabbage if his helmet. >> a fact. >> a nice fact i was very impressed that you knew. >> you know why, you probably never been to the museum at yankee stadium. you do when you got a rain delays, they tell you about true facts, cabbage on the noggin. >> you got to keep up to date, though, came, kale! >> we'll try that one. >> what is he saying? >> all right. thank you. >> still ahead, more on the fallout of omarosa's tell all. she claims in a new book president trump had a nickname for betsy devos and the department of education is weighing in on that. what to expect in the paul manafort trial as closing arguments are set to begin this morning. we'll be right back. i got it. we'll just create a shortcut. we'll do anything, seriously anything to help you save. ally. do it right. talking 4th quarter? yes. you might be missing something.y healthy. your eyes. that's why there's ocuvite. ocuvite helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. it has lutein, zeaxanthin and omega-3. ocuvite. be good to your eyes. the digital divide is splitting this country. we have parents who are trying to get their kids off of too much social media and computers, and then we have parents who would only hope their children have access. middle school is a really key transition point, right. the stakes start changing. students begin to really start thinking about their futures. what i like about verizon's approach is that it's not limited to just giving kids new tools, it's really about empowering educators to teach in different ways, and exposing kids to more active forms of learning. giving technology is not a total solution. teaching technology, now that is. i've been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. there's a lot of innovation that goes into making america's #1 shave. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. now starting at $7.99. gillette. the best a man can get. it's good to be with you it is the bottom of the hour. here are your top stories. the war of words between president trump and former aid omarosa is escalating. the president is pushing back on her allegation he's been caught on tape using the "n" word. kristen walker has the very latest. >> can you stand at the podium and guarantee the american people they'll never hear donald trump utter the "n" word on a recording in any context? >> i can't guarantee anything, but i can tell you the president addressed this question directly. ki tell you that i've never heard it. >> just to be clear, you can't guarantee it. >> look, i haven't been if every single radio. i can tell you the president addressed this directly. >> a defiant trump said a producer mark burnett said i don't have that word in my vocabulary. i never v. that's off rrom rosad an outtake with mr. trump using that slur. >> how many times did you hear him use the "n" word? >> multiple times. >> calling he foreman apprentice a crazed low life, good work by general kelly for quickly firing that dog. it sparked criticism and the firm response. >> it just shows you that if he would say that publicly what else would he say about me privately? he has absolutely no respect for women, for african-americans. >> it's just not omarosa, the president used dehumanizing term to take aim at rivals. his recent attacks, questioning the average americans in pop culture have come under scrutiny. >> this has absolutely nothing to do with race and everything to do with the president calling out someone's lack of integrity. >> reporter: newman says a new discussion during the 2016 campaign about the alleged "n" word tape with other aids and katrina pierson. >> he's done it. he's a menace. >> thanks. a spokesperson katrina pierson said the tape you heard there is taken out of context. mark burnett has not responded for comment. >> omarosa made a claim to our own katy tur if true would be of interest to special counsel bob mueller. take a listen. >> so you were instructed, according to your book to bring up the e-mails at every point you could at the end of the 2016 campaign? >> that's correct. >> hillary clinton's e-mails? >> that was our talker. >> did donald trump know about the e-mails before they came out? >> absolutely. >> he knew about them? >> yes. >> he knew about them before wikileaks? >> yes. >> you said donald trump had a back channel. >> i didn't say that, ub did. i will expose the campaign and i will continue to proceed the whistle on all of this. >> not true. he didn't know. i know he didn't know. >> if he did in. >> i know it beyond being his lawyer. >> if he knew, is it a problem? >> no, and but, he didn't know. i'm not even going to get into a hypothetical. he did not know. >> omarosa did not offer everyday to back up that claim. it is not in her book. rom rosa claiming that the president used a disparaging nickname to describe his educationing is ditzy devos. it allegedly happened after she was booed to a historic black bethune university. the aid claims devos left town early and left her stranded in a hotel. she said, once i returned and told djt about what had happened, he shook his head in disgust. he said, she is ditzy devos, what do you expect? in a very short time, i'll get rid of her. they said this disgraced former white house employee is meddling lice for profit and the jokes about betsy devos. the trial of paul manafort team rested its case without calling a single witness. attorney for president trump's campaign chairman did make arguments for acquittal yesterday which the judge denied. manafort plead not guilty to tax evasion, bank fraud and money laundering spoke for the first time yesterday. the judge called him to the podium to make sure he understood he had the right to testify if he wanted. when asked if he wanted to testify, manafort simply replied, no, sir. speaking to reporters outside the courthouse, manafort's lead lawyer says his team did not offer witnesses because they do not believe the government had sufficient evidence to prove its case the case is expected to go to the jury today. role call neil lesnewski is back to us. what is expected in the manafort trial? both sides have settled. do we expect a long dlibati deliberation? or should we expect to hear anything soon? >> reporter: we are headed to alexandria virginia, toovmt today. it's not how quick the jury might be deliberating for after the closing arguments are over with. but what's going to be really key today is what exactly do mr. manafort's lawyers try and sell to the jury in terms of the government not having proven its case? they didn't put on any witnesses. so there is this question of whether or not the real play here is even for the trial, itself, or whether manafort and company are sort of playing a long game down the road for a possible presidential pardon from donald trump eventually. >> what became a two-day revelation of omarosa, you heard that conversation where omarosa said the staffers in the white house should be very worried about that. what are you hearing from the staffers inside? what are they talking about? how worried are they, if at all? >>. >> reporter: well the worry has got to be about whether or not omarosa knows anything, like we said before, that would be of interest to bob mueller, more than sort of this president trump makes statements from time to time, many of which are not on secret recordings. there are plenty of things he said right out in the open that are probably outside the boundaries of normal political discourse. so that's not unusual. it's whether or not there is anything that is of sort of legal interest to mueller and the other thing i would just throw in, is that the senate is actually coming back into session today. because they canceled a part of the august recess. so unfortunately if you are a united states senator who is a republican, you are going to be answering questions about omarosa at this point. >> we have an omarosa out of the white house, it's been a while, it comes to, what she had access to they were not with high level senior fishlgs herringofficials. so in essence, would it be in this case kind of you know just conversations that may not really amount to anything? especially with her credibility at stake? >> it's entirely possible that she doesn't have a lot that's actually of interest and the other thing, of course, is with the way this white house and this presidency has been going, you know, i wouldn't be surprised if a week from now we have moved on from omarosa, that you know she does her round of television interviews. she starts our book tour in ernest, but barring there being any new revelations from her, we may be onto the next controversy. >> hmm. all right. >> it's certainly possible. neil lesniewski, thank you. >> still ahead, we go live to istanbul, with the leaders minutes on the ongoing currency crisis. rescue crews in italy racing against the clock there to find survivors in that horrific bridge collapse. the challenges they face in trying to find anyone who may still be alive. okay we need to get all your school supplies today... school.. grade.. done. done. hit the snooze button and get low prices on school supplies all summer long. like these for only a 25 cents at office depot officemax. and it's time to get outside. pack in even more adventure with audible. with the largest selection of audiobooks. audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. or discover magic when you hit the open road. with 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contracts? what about a dedicated service team of trading specialists? did you say yes? good, then it's time for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. looks like we have a couple seconds left. let's do some card twirling twirling cards e*trade. the original place to invest online. 37 people are dead following a bridge collapse in italy. this happened in the port city of gen aw-- genoa. >> this video capturing the horror, the moment a massive bridge collapses during a powerful storm, sending cars plunging, witnesses stunned. >> i got out of the car, i saw people running away from the bridge and some people, there was even a guard with his face covered in blood. >> reporter: hundreds of first-aid responders rushing to the scene, digging through tons of concrete and steel this fire fighter carrying out one rescue, lowering a survivor down from the bridge. what is the biggest danger for any potential survivors? >> well, there is no gas leaks or anything, if there are any survivors they are trapped in maybe a confined space. >> reporter: the bridge seen here before the collapse stretched over the residential buildings and water that green truck avoiding disaster by inches. they say at least 50 vehicles were on the bridge a part of the main road to france when a 260 foot span began crumbling. tomorrow is a major summer holiday, many traveling on the bridge to get to nearby mountains, officials say the work was under way when the collapse happened. they are launching an investigation to find out what sparked zempl which for dozens of drivers came without warning. president erdogan called for tariffs on a number of american good, escalating the diplomatic tensions between the two nato allies. we have more, what's the latest? i know the lira has made a rebound as well? >> reporter: yeah a little bit of a rebound this morning. that's on the backup of regulations restrictions issued by the banking regulatoreer. it has to do with foreign currency swaths. in terms of those announcements on tariffs, they are pretty significant if you look at tobacco, alcohol, cars, cosmetics, rice, fruit the one that will have an impact is tobacco. they spend about $50 million of tobacco products from the u.s., turkey. that's in context of more than $22 billion of trade and goods and services between these two countries. yesterday, president erdogan doubling down his rhetoric, talking about the need to avoid iphones and buy samsung a local company instead. in terms of the an update on that man andrew brunson, the american pastor held there almost two years, most recently under house arrest, we had a chance to speak to his lawyer, who told us his late st appeal to have that house arrest liftd had been denied by a turkish court in other city, he will at the moment face espionage charges related to that 2016 failed coup attempt, unless, of course, will is some kind of intervention from the white house. they had set today as a deadline for him to be released, otherwise, they threatened further punitive actions against turkey. >> we will hear a lot more as this develops. thanks so much. and we've got more. president trump set to head to one hot spot of the elites that he continuously denounce at his rallies the reason behind the president's rally there. >> after being separated by 100 votes, finally a gubernatorial race in kansas. plus, bill kierans is back with another check of our forecast. this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. . welcome back. so a week after candidates for a gubernatorial primary finished in a neck and neck finish. jeff collier conceded the race to chris kobach. he said he would endorse kobach in the general november election. the governor made the decision of a review of provisional ballots did not yield enough votes for him to overcome the lead kobach had over him. kobach will face laura kelly in the election. they are reviewing submitted signatures of greg ormond to see if he will be in the ballot as well. the president will be in the manhattans hosted by nathan's famous, the hot dog company, bloomberg citing people reports the roundtable with supporters and a luncheon will take place at the southampton friday. it will host a trump victory for the 2020 campaign in the rnc. he was there and was appointed as the board of trustees for the u.s. holocaust memorial museum last year. he described him as one of his two best friends. according to bloomberg, they traveled to moscow in 1996 to explore business opportunities. in sports, we talked about it being the dog days of summer and miami and the 1st base coach budget lettuce in his hat to stay cool from the heat. >> that will be interesting. the heat is with us. we were soggy, now many spots. and a major breaking news story from the weather today, watch what happened in the ozarks. especially this area between fayetteville and little rock. moderate risk of flash flooding, especially earlier. new york city, five boroughs, a portion of long islands and area of new jersey, essex county, heat advisory. very humid. full sun later today, the heat indices could be up there enough to make it feel uncomfortable. oppressive heats continues especially in the south. norfolk, 93. the sun will be out at least. a little much. 99 in wilmington today and 93 in charlotte. do it again thursday. not much of a breeze to mix things up. philly, 97. feels like. d.c., 91. pretty hot and humid friday, too. then thunderstorms kick through and cool things off. once the front goes through gets to be a pretty nice weekend. new york, 86, 82. boston, # 5 sunday. even philly night, 85 sunday and d.c. enjoyable sunday. humidity levels lower. forecast concerns today if traveling, could have problems with airports this afternoon at o'hare. st. louis especially throughout this morning into the afternoon. okay in dallas. atlanta look goods for travel and much of florida looks good. warm in the west. haven't talked a lot about it or had breaking news, big, new, huge fires but plenty burns out there and a lot of poor air quality. good we haven't had anything. we went about what was it? two, three weeks in a row talking about one fire story after another in the west. >> really tough. bill, you forgot. it's cabbage over the head. not lettuce. cabbage fits the noggin better. >> what's the difference? >> it will wilt. >> cabbage a stronger. still to come, axios's "one big thing." and coming up on "morning joe," a full breakdown of results of elections across the country and what they may signal for president trump heading towards the midterms. plus controlling the fallout over omarosa's allegations against president trump and the backlash these facing for going on the attack against her. 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>> trump's sitcom gone wild. we're seeing it play out on your air. since the president took office, sort of a subtext how he governs, how he leads is, this is a reality show. this is a sitcom. every day is a new episode. right? >> right. >> now, that's the dominant sense act. they don't even try to hide it. so right when omarosa was about to come out with her book, bow hi behind the scenes, top advisers says don't take the debate, don't talk about it. you'll just spur her views. melania trump said, don't do it. they knew he couldn't help himself. >> talk about the worry factor with staffers. telling katy tur they should be very worried. our last guest, neil said, a week from now, talk about something else. going to be done. are we? >> what people worry about is the distraction that top republicans tell me if we could talk about immigration, if we could talk about the economy. we might hold on to the house. probably wouldn't, but do better. but their number one best case scenario for the fall is the president stays on message on the economy and immigration. seeing how unlikely that is. inside the white house, a feeling of betrayal from omarosa. nob liked her, respected her. talked how people were actually afraid of her. another really nuer what sknew did. her job was sort of like a joke. people are surprised by how close she's cutting to the bone and something that throws them, seems to be enjoying it, and yesterday i picked up my copy and if you look at the last line of her dedication, her acknowledgements, she ends her book, last words of her book are "to god be the glory". >> she's owning it, you were saying. reality tv here, discussing this earlier. mike, you always have your ear to the ground certainly. an understatement. what do you think her editorial calendar is like? how much longer might it go? a week, mentioned earlier or months? >> october surprise, even? >> she's taking all of trump's bag of trips. doing the tease, doing the media. intimidati intimidation. playing the different -- off each other. yesterday with a.p. taping the abc podcast. of course she is. >> right. >> let's move on now. in the time we have. >> but the biggest tease of all, right? how many more tapes are there? people are skeptical that they're good, but keep that in hur back pocket. >> see if she releases it. day two of those revelations from her. number two, primaries. what are you looking at? >> washington will look very different come january. so 199 women have now won their primaries just for the house. and a great twist on this that axios is seeing. pointing out, at least five reasons where we already know the women are going to replace men. no matter the results in november, we know there will be a woman in that seat, rather than the man. so this is how we know the differences that are coming for sure. >> candidates, and the electorate in terms of their preference. a part of that, lgbtq community. you're covering that? >> the "wall blade" won'ted out, lgbt, at least one, won all primaries. at least five lgbtq who won for governor and oregon state already the governor. >> mike allen. >> good to have you here. >> next time maybe a vente. the coffee you're asking for. >> and read "axios a.m." >> part a good breakfast. >> sign up for the newsletter at signup.axios.com. that does it for us on this wednesday morning. i'm richard lui alongside francis. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning. it's wednesday, august the 15th, and with us today we have donny deutsch, president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haass sighing already because he knows we'll be talking baseball top of the show, and host of "politics nation" and president of the national network reverend al sharpton and msnbc news reporter heidi przybyla and columnist and associate editor of the "washington post"
the hard choices ahead for those who lost almost everything. first, new this morning, just 23 days to the midterm election and re-electing and not re-electing some of the folks headed to that building. a new poll giving a hint of what might happen. a sharp inees in voter en throughs yachl since the last midterm. 77% of registered voters say they are absolutely certain to vote or have already voted early. that's up 12 percentage points from a 2014 poll from october that year. specifically, enthusiasm is up among all demographic groups. but the increases are greater among younger adults. nonwhite voters and those who say they favor democrats for the house president meanwhile, president trump last night in kentucky, the latest stop on his tour of critical midterm states striking familiar themes. >> to make sure that america's extraordinary comeback, we want to make sure it continues full speed ahead. we don't want democrats that are coming from a different place. we don't want them getting in office. all they'll do is obstruct. under republican leadership, america is booming. it's thriving. >> meanwhile, president trump's approval rating stands at 41% in the new poll. 5 percentage higher than august. second highest for this poll but still underwater with 54% disapproval. let's bring in the washington examiner and a reporter for the hill. i want your reaction on the latest poll numbers. the number of voters likely to vote is up 12 percentage points. what does this suggest to you? >> well, it suggests what we've seen this entire cycle, which is that enthusiasm is up among democratic voters. it's also evident in the fact that you have a record number of women running for office on the democratic side. and a record number of people getting involved. i've been on the trail myself. in these competitive districts, you're hearing women as well as men say that they were never involved in politics before. but that this time around, they really want to be out there, whether it's helping a candidate go door to door canvassing and getting out the vote. >> one of the items coming out of this poll, julia, is that we were -- i was just mentioning, 77% of registered voters say they're certain about or have already voted. flip side is that when we take a look at who they prefer in congress, it is trending down, although democrats still do hold an advantage at the time. so energy up, lead by democrats down. potentially the kavanaugh bump is showing up in polls. >> yeah. richard, i think the kavanaugh bump is absolutely showing up here. we're seeing that president trump's approval rating is still in the 40s. but up five points from the last poll that took place. we're seeing major parts of president trump's base, including noncollege educated white men and women. they're likely voting is up. when delving more deeply, we're seeing numbers on whether they're likely to vote are also very high. we're seeing younger women, raicial minorities, young millennials saying they want to vote. i think that's good news for democrats but bad news for republicans. we still have a few weeks to go until midterms. i don't know if this kavanaugh bump can really sustain itself. president trump last night talked about how democrats are an angry mob. he cited those protests during the kavanaugh hearings. i think this is a republican strategy of trying to keep that momentum from kavanaugh going into next couple of weeks. i think there is a risk of republican voters becoming complacent. you know, the economy is good for them. they have their two conservative supreme court justices as well as a slew of other conservative justices on the lower courts. republicans need to make sure they don't get complacent and they go out to the polls to combat potential blue wave. >> when you talk about the economy and taxes, i need to make a note on the poll numbers. that's because, democrats and republicans are competitive basically within the margin of error here in the 40s when it comes to taxes and the economy do not forget what we saw on friday. a big, big drop that we haven't seen in years. as we look to monday and the markets and what this means in the following 23 days, what we're seeing in the economy could change potentially. >> that's right. i mean, it could. so the other thing is that republicans have been running away from their talking points, not on just the economy but on their tax plan that they passed and health care. democrats have been hitting those points consistently and very hard because they found that when they do, they do well in these districts. so that is leaving republicans to run on very far right issues, such as immigration, the border wall, which is something that we think could come up after the election as well. >> we've been talking about what might happen if the democrats do take control of the house and they may be laying ground already. house minority leader nancy pelosi saying demanding the president's tax returns is one of the first things we do. her words. that the easiest thing in the world, that's nothing. when you look at this here, julia, is that right? is it that simple? >> it's really not that simple. we're seeing a lot of potential heads of those committees and the housey elijah cummings, proposing -- however in terms of the president's tax returns, you know, this could set up a very potential long-winded fight with the treasury. that's a political gamble that the democrats have to decide if they want to take, if they want to take it. between the midterms and 2020, they want to get gains in the house and potentially the presidency between that time. they have to decide if they want to get themselves involved in a long wind battle with the treasury when there could be other issues that voters could potentially care about more than the president's tax returns. however, this is a talking point democrats have used consist at the present timely to attack trump. >> one of the things that came out in the poll this morning, health care. that's big still. >> uh-huh. that's right. i mean, democrats have been trying to make this the biggest issue going into the final stretch ahead of november 6th. they are increasingly releasing ads on health care, trying to convince and show to voters that republicans, if they stay in power are going to further gut aca, are going to go after preexisting conditions and so they want to make sure that voters hear from them. if you want to check on this, check on the president, be it on health care or on tax, then you have to put us in power. >> all right. laura barron-lopez. julia manchester and the final issue of health care, not an easy one for both sides to explain to potential voters. certainly. >> good morning to both of you again. the death toll rising from hurricane michael. at least 19 are dead. that number expected to rise. more than 600,000 people without power right now. analysts estimate private insurers will pay about $6 billion in claims for wind and storm surge damage. let's go to lynn haven florida, where marian a atencio is. >> we don't want to hear the numbers get higher. >> reporter: that's right, richard. for cities like lynn haven, one of the smaller ones in the panhandle left devastated. this is about 30 minutes from the beach. look at what's left of their chamber of commerce. this is also part of their police department and i mean, residents are coming back to images like this. the mayor telling our local nbc news affiliate that power in lynn haven will likely be out for two months. there is no water or sewer system. it is not safe to come back. there will be no school for children. so for residents still processing the trauma of the storm, seeing these images behind me as well of devastation is just a mixed bag of hope, helplessness. let's hear from some of them. >> it breaks your heart. but so thankful how with as bad as it was, were there so few people hurt, you know? that's incredible. >> this was the big one. once in a lifetime thing. i probably won't live long enough to see anything like this again. >> the girls' room imploded and the windows went, the door frame went flying through the wall. then our neighbor's shingles came off and came through our bedroom window into the drywall across. that was when i'm like, i'm going to stay in the hallway. we got lucky, definitely for sure. >> this is, no doubt, a life changing storm richard. we drove in last night from mexico beach, which is utterly decimated. it's a drive that would usually take 40 minutes, 30 minutes. it took us hours. it was bumper to bumper traffic because people all along the panhandle are desperately looking for power, for supplies for water. it's also a dangerous drive because this was a wind event, there are toppled trees, toppled power lines, making this entire area a safety hazard, really. as you heard from those folks, this entire area and smaller cities like the one i'm standing in now left reeling after this storm. >> the sound of chainsaws so welcome and important for that safety measure you were describing there. thank you so much. reporting live in lynn haven, florida. marian atencio. >> what the next step could signal in the russia probe. how do you top mac & cheese? 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[woman 7] go to mypsaproof.com to see proof in action. unstopand it's strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. sunrise 7:14 a.m. at the capital. it is a beauty. more now on that new poll out this morning. 23 days until election day. the odds overwhelmingly predict the house flips to the democrats. that stays consistent. the republicans keep the senate. >> this could be the most important race there is. so get out and vote. we can't let this happen. >> president trump in kentucky last night urging republicans to turn out at the polls next month. this week the president will visit miss oula, montana, mesa, arizona. there's support for a democratic congress to keep the president in check. in that poll i was talking about, 54% favor a democratic congress. however, that is down from 60% in august. conversely, those favoring a republican congress, that rose 7 percentage points to 41. while the number of women candidates reached record levels and new study finds a historic drop in white men running for congress. an increase of 75% points among women of color and 36% among white women. for what matters to people 23 days before the midterm election, we'll go to orange county, california where jacob s saeb revolve says they're trying to flip republican seats there. >> los angeles, downtown union station probably isn't where you think you start a quest to find the most traditionally republicant territory in americ. the biggest county in america is one of the most diverse and democratic. if you take a short train ride south, the politics can seem a world apart. >> it used to be from l.a. to orange county you cross through the orange curtain. because you go from a democratic area to a very republican area. this year, back in washington, the democrats are hoping that's changing. so you all live in orange county? >> yes. >> if you watch the news, all you hear about it brett kavanaugh. what gloria? >> no. that's all you hear about. you know, it's hard to think about something else and all you hear is the brett kavanaugh. >> do you think you're going to be thinking about that when you go into the polling booth on election day? >> i hope not. >> you hope not? what are the things you'd rather be thinking about? >> traffic and pollution. traffic and pollution. >> hopped off the train in irvine. weave, like good californians could carpool. turning out people of color and young voters. we head to the local university of california campus. in-n-out burger. do you want to know what they think, here's where you come. >> what do people care about in irvine? >> myself and my friends are minorities, so we're thinking about that. >> enough to flip the district? >> i hope so. >> i think 26,000 kids go to school here. if the democrats can get all of them to vote for them, then the republicans would be in trouble in this district. but i don't know. >> sorry. not to be annoying, we're with nbc news and i'm trying to figure out, anybody here going to vote in the election on november 6th? anybody? anybody? nobody is going to vote? is anybody going to vote in the congressional election in november? you are? thank you. sir, what do you care about? >> what do i care about? >> school. >> what about you? you need to get on this bus? >> yeah. >> what's going to get your vote? >> schools and expenses. >> you're not talking about the issues that people talk about on the news all the time. the russia investigation, the supreme court. >> i don't watch that stuff. >> i don't watch the news. >> are you registered to vote? >> not yet. >> how old are you? >> 18. >> this could be your first election. >> yeah. >> ultimately, you could decide whether or not the house of representatives is democratic or republican control. are you thinking about all of that? >> not currently. maybe if i took more time to get informed about what's going on in politics. i assume that the people voting have at least some idea of who they're voting for. >> are you going to vote? >> i should. we're the most unreliable voters. i should vote. >> that's what the democrats want. >> but they can't count on you guys necessarily. >> no. the rest of the people our age will be like oh, man, better vote. all the old people telling us to vote. >> am i old? >> older. sorry. >> dude. >> jacob, that happens. that was nbc's jacob sobriety revol -- jacob reporting. billionaire democratic donor tom stieer is spending $3.5 million in california alone in efforts to get the folks jake was talking about, millennials to vote. >> the trump legal team preparing responses to written questions. there are only 15 of them. is that enough? we've got the reaction next. you just knew the kanye wild, wild, west wing would be a "saturday night live" send off. we begin with the idea that time is a myth. there's infinite amounts of universe. i'm a prisoner in a different dimension. have i lost anyone so far? and when i put this hat on, it's like superman's hat. >> superman didn't have a hat, you idiot. >> you want to add anything, jim? >> add? i got a couple of subtractions i'd like to forget. i'd like to forget with fidelity wealth management you get straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. ...if we listened more? could the right voice, the right set of words, bring us all just a little closer, get us to open up, even push us further? it could. if we took the time to listen. the most inspiring minds. the most compelling stories. download audible. and listen for a change. new questions today on what's behind special counsel robert mueller's written questions to president trump. nbc news confirming reports that the president's legal team is preparing answers to 15 questions submitted by mueller's team. let's go to legal analyst and contributor. danny, the reports, they suggest the questions are only about collusion between the trump 2016 campaign and russia. what do we know about what these answers might be and specifics to the questions? >> when you think about it, it's consist at the present time ten are about collusion. largely the indictments out of the investigation have revolved around russian collusion-type issues. it may be the case that the mueller team has concluded that the firing of james comey and the investigation into potential obstruction is not really fertile ground for the prosecutors and investigators. that would be a significant inference to draw from this. but the other big question is, why and for what reason has the mueller team agreed to accept written answers to interrogatories. you almost never see this in criminal cases and when you o do see them in civil case, they have largely fallen by the wayside because everybody knows that giving written answers to written interrogatories, it's very easy to monkey around with your answers. you can say they were vague. you can say they were ambiguous, those questions. and then you can think really hard about your answer and give the most nonresponsive answer legally possible. >> then why do it? >> it's advantageous to trump, of course. it may avoid him sitting down or giving testimony under oath. an informal interview or testifying before a grand jury has a lot of pitfalls, not the least of which are potential perjury or section 1001, false statements to government investigators. for the mueller team, perhaps it's part of their overall chess strategy, to get answers from trump on some critical questions which will help them frame the investigation going forward. >> danny, so you were mentioning obstruction of justice. does this mean that the mueller team either has a very good case and they don't need to ask questions about this or nice ver vice versa, they don't have a case? >> you could be on to something. perhaps they think they have an airtight obstruction case. if you take a step back and look at the counter arguments, there are arguments that he could have had the authority to fire james comey even if part of his motivation may have been self-protection. after all, he is the president of the united states and that decision was supported, at least in part, by rod rosenstein. you may be right. it could go the other way. >> danny, always great to have you on this sunday morning. msnbc legal analyst. appreciate you my friend. that does it for me. i'm richard liu i. you can watch politics nation with al sharp ton at his new time 5:00 saturday and sunday. first, your business is nechblgts next. ♪ [ telephone ringing ] -whoa. 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historic campaign with everything but a concession. we'll get in to both stories shortly, but first, president trump is in california visiting with officials and communities ravaged by the deadliest wildfire in the state's history. at this hour, 71 people have been confirmed dead, more than 1,000 unaccounted for, with thousands more displaced. joining us now from chico, california, in the heart of the devastation is nbc news correspondent scott cohen. tell us what's going on at this point. >> reporter: the president is just about to leave northern california, spent a little less than two hours here, now on his way to southern california, and also that mass shooting in thousand oaks, to pay respects there. he spent time in the devastation in paradise that community that's been basically decimated by the so-called camp fire and spent some time meeting with first responders. he was accompanied by jerry brown and gavin newsom. both the governor and governor-elect, of course, talk a lot about climate change but the president said that the issue still here remains, forestry management. listen. >> does seeing this devastation change your opinion at all on climate change? >> no, no. we're going to have forest that's are very safe because we can't go through this every year, we go through this and we'll have safe forests and that's happening as we speak. >> you said change in the fire management, should the state -- >> we'll work together with the federal government -- no, state, local and federal government. federal government's going to work with the state and we'll help them with funding and we're -- its going to take a lot of funding. >> reporter: and the governor and governor-elect didn't call him on that. in fact, there's a lot of agreement there that there does need to be better forestry management. the underlying cause, of course, is the subject of continued debate. i'll give you a sense of where i am here. this is one of a half a dozen evacuation centers from the so-called chico fire. this one alone has 177 people here and the big issue -- you know, we have 1,000 plus people missing and this is one of the ways that they are -- go right ahead, this is the ways that they are trying to account for people and this is literally involves people coming here, looking for loved ones to see if they're here, writing the name on the board and you check to see if that person is here. that's how daunting a task we have here. as you can see, very few names have been crossed off the list. meantime, the red cross is also trying to connect people and one of the things they're doing is actually going out into the community and trying to connect with people saying, are you an evacuatee, getting the names so the loved ones can find the people who are missing, but with more than 1,000 people missing and all of the devastation here, the totals already 71 dead, the fear is that number's going to go higher. >> thank you, scott cohn. now let's bring in our panel. first congressman john garamendi. he's the former lieutenant governor of california. also with us david brock, chairman of american bridge and founder of media matters for america, and there's copeland, a gop strategist and founder of the urban conservative and chris liu, former manager of president obama's cabinet and former deputy secretary of labor. he is now senior fellow at the university of virginia. let me go to you, congressman. you were a lieutenant governor. >> sure. >> you know about management, forestry management. it seems the president even in the midst of this and in the midst of the democratic governor brown, jerry brown and incoming governor gavin newsom, a democrat taking the high road, he still blaming it, basically, on the forestry mismanagement as his terms and playing down the climate change aspects. how do you react to that as one that help run the state of california that went through wildfires before, maybe not as deadly as this one, but have gone through crisis and emergencies like this before that was climate related? >> i certainly been through many of these dating back to the oakland hills fire when i was the insurance commissioner in california. that was 29 dead in that fire and that was in the oakland hills. so, yes, i've seen many, many fires over the years and what i have seen is a change in the nature of the fires. more fires, larger fires, hotter fires, more destructive fires and also the president is, at least partially correct, we do have a forest management problem. the national forest and the state forest, they are under serious stress as a result of climate change. the number of dead trees, dying trees in our forests both national, state and private is over-the-top and probably the hundreds of millions of trees. that is definitely a forest management problem caused by climate change. this particular fire, the fire at paradise was not a forest fire issue, it was an urban fire started in the grasslands, brushlands of california, swept into the city and just wiped it out. 26,000 people, the entire city is virtually gone. now, what is that caused by? well, climate change once again. very dry, very hot conditions, very dry vegetation as a result of the additional heat that has been brought on by climate change. >> we all have our various opinions, but we can't have different facts. if, in fact, as just stated by the congressman, we're dealing with urban fire that was accelerated by climate change, wouldn't it have been more responsible for the president to say, yes, we have to deal with climate change and we also have to deal with the forestry management? >> i said to, liz, right now. >> sorry. >> no worries. i actually agree with you. i think that you're seeing the president react to the midterm elections. its said to be an indication of the voters are repudiation of this president or the president in office and instead of having a conversation about his contribution to that, he pivoted over to criticizing which he does anything and any one and he pinpointed forestry management as an opportunity to criticize california, a state that he lost by a wide margin. so we're talking about people who are losing their lives, people who have lost property, thousands of people who are missing and instead of sending his concerns being the president and the leader of this country, he sends out a tweet blaming forest management and then saying, maybe, we shouldn't even send federal money to support those people who have been harmed by the fire. its disgusting to say the least the way this president can react when he should be the centered moral compass and the moral leader, the voice of reason of this country, he tends to not be able to do that. >> and you're the republican on the panel, but let me -- >> and i'm the republican. >> let me go to you, chris liu. you worked in the obama administration in various capacities. i know because i sat across the table from you on many of our civil rights issues. when you look at this from one who worked in and around the white house, how do we deal with as liz says, 71 people are dead, over 1,000 missing, thousands displaced. at what point do those in the white house say the moral issue here, the concern for the loss of human life and families and people that are still displaced supercedes trying to play the blame game here? >> you're exactly right. i was with president obama in 2011 when we had devastating tornadoes in missouri and alabama, killed over 200 people. could you imagine if barack obama had blamed those states or the residents for those disasters? that's not what a president, much less a decent person does. and so, its important -- i applaud president trump for going to california, for seeing this upfront. that's certainly a step forward. but its also important to understand that the way that he has denigrated federal employees over the last two years. these federal employees are the ones that are helping to respond to these disasters and are going to be on the ground to help these communities respond, and its important, yes, forest management is part of the issue, but its also important to realize that 60% of california's forests are under the control of the federal government and so if the president is serious about solving this problem, he has to look into his own house and ask his own people to help address this issue. >> david, you founded media matters. the media focus on this and the disaster and the victims has been consistent, but has the media really dealt with the insensitivity that the president has shown criticizing all the way up until this visit and repeating it in the visit, those that are really out there dealing with this issue, on the front lines, that are the first responders and dealing with solely there management and those that are handling this rather than assessing that, seeing how the federal government can help and really making the majority of his delivery there the compassion for those families that have lost loved ones because of a natural disaster that had no bearing at all on what they could have been possibly responsible for? >> i think the media appropriately is focusing on the tragedy, but a number of the facts that just came out on this panel such as the fact that 60% of these lands are under federal management, that president trump as he usually does wants to blame others and escape responsibility, he never takes responsibility, and i think there hasn't been an appropriate focus on how much president trump has tried to politicize what is a terrible tragedy and far be it from me to agree with the republican on the panel, the reality is this is classic trump and media really need to focus on facts here and one of the facts that's underlying this is climate change and we're not really reading enough about that and we're not seeing enough about that in the tv coverage. >> congressman, i did note that both governor jerry brown and incoming governor newsom took the high road and said that they would tour with the president and they said this was something that was above politics and even on this panel, you have david brock and al sharpton agreeing with liz. some people can rise above politics. how did you react to it with jerry brown and with gavin newsom did today in your state? >> well, they did it exactly right. they did what they should do as the governor and the soon to be governor of the state and how do we rebuild and how do we take care of the people that are displaced? i just left just before i got here one of the evacuation centers south of the fire more than 120 people there, they are seriously impacted. these are mostly poor people. they were living in low income or rental or in some cases shacks up in the mountains. so we have a responsibility as citizens of this state, as officials of the state to see that they're taking care of. there's a second step in this and that's the step of the federal government coming forward with its support through the fema programs and the small business administration to provide the money to rebuild a city. we're not talking about a few houses here, some 9,300 homes have been destroyed and an entire city of 26,000 people. so that's going to take an enormous amount of support from the federal government, we're going to need to put that money into the omnibus bill which will be voted on hopefully before middecember and then we've got to go about how do we build resilient communities in the future and what are we going to do about evacuations. interestingly, just six months ago, i introduced a bill in the house, one in the senate to provide for evacuation programs. >> these are the kind of things we need to focus on. i'm going to have to leave it there. thank you, congressman. >> thank you. >> the panel is sticking around. coming up, senator bernie sanders, will he be running for president again in 2020? but first, stacey abrams says democracy failed georgia as she ends her bid for governor. who exactly is she blaming? we'll be right back. hi dad. no. don't try to get up. hi, i'm julie, a right at home caregiver. and if i'd been caring for tom's dad, i would have noticed some dizziness that could lead to balance issues. that's because i'm trained to report any changes in behavior, no matter how small, so tom could have peace of mind. we'll be right there. we have to go. hey, tom. you should try right at home. they're great for us. the right care. right at home. ♪ ♪ the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪ but one blows them all out of the water. hydro boost from neutrogena®. with hyaluronic acid to plump skin cells so it bounces back. neutrogena® so it bounces back. i am a techie dad.n. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. welcome back. minutes ago the state of florida passed the latest deadline in its statewide recount. this one reassesses thousands of mail-in and provisional ballots rejected over mismatched signatures, a likely for malty in the state's race for governor. with this week's updated returns showed ron desantis maintaining his lead over andrew gillum and thus avoiding the concluding hand recount. that will decide the senate race between rick scott and bill nelson, who is chances are now slim at best with less than 24 hours. before all recounts, results, manual and machine are finally due, meanwhile, in georgia, the secretary of state has just certified brian kemp as governor-elect after stacey abrams ended her hard fought campaign friday with a forceful parting shot at her opponent. >> to watch an elected official who claims to represent the people in the state baldly pin his hopes on the suppression of the people's rights to vote has been appalling. let's be clear. this is not a speech of concession, because concession means to acknowledge an action is right, true or proper. as a woman of conscientious and faith, i cannot concede that. >> the panel is back and joining us is legal analyst mya wildly. let me go to you first, maya. stacey abrams made it very clear that this was voter suppression and he may have won the seat but he won it in an unfair and unjust way. he was the referee as well as the opponent and there were voters punched, there were machines closed. really, if section 5 of the voting rights act was still in place, they would have had to preclear that, the fact that they removed section 5, he could do what he wanted. your reaction to stacey abrams' statement and the end results. >> i think stacey abrams was sending just as you're saying a very strong message about a system of suppression that was blocking black people from the ballot and that -- remember, brian kemp, back in 2010, he actually has a long history of doing this, back in 2010 he actually prosecuted leaders, black leaders and black folks who had elected to a school board first time in the history of that county, that blacks were a majority on that school board and he actually took them -- arrested them, charged them with voter fraud for essentially get out the vote registration work four years of ruining peoples' lives, zero convictions. and the purging -- voter purging, the other things we've heard, even his statement that black people vote its harder for republicans to win is all civil rights violation. >> that was directly quoted. chris liu, you worked in the justice department, we looking at something that clear spells out the weakening of the voting rights act was also something that helped set a climate for this because this would have had to be preclear, prethe shelby decision because georgia was one of the states cited in the voting rights act and was on the map that was listed in section 5 that was taken out? >> you're exactly right. its the weakening of the voting rights act. it is all of the different obstructions that have been put in front of people voting. the irony is that this president started his presidency by creating a voter fraud commission which turned up nothing and was disbanded. the real voter fraud is not only the what we're seeing down in georgia, it is voter i.d. laws, it is long lines at polling places in poor african-american communities, its what we're seeing in florida right now with badly designed ballots as well. so those are the things that we should be focusing on and its important, really, for democrats as well to be focusing on the secretary of state races which for so long we haven't really focused on. and in georgia, for instance, there is a secretary of state race coming up to replace brian kemp. so hopefully that's a seat that we can take back. >> liz, do you think republicans can really find any joy in the process being accused of being less than fair in order to win? i mean there were major losses. there was a blue wave and now you have a governor in georgia -- i'm sorry, a governor in georgia now certified, a governor-elect that dealt clearly whether one agrees with the term suppression or not, clearly did purge 53,000 voters and did close some polling sites in select areas. >> i think that's a really good question, the majority of republicans shouldn't, they can't really take joy in an election that has been tainted with even the assertion of fraud or just not playing by the rules. you mentioned earlier, not only was he a player but he was also a referee. talking about kemp. in georgia -- i want to preface my next statement with this one, as a republican, i do believe voter suppression actually occurs. i do not believe there's rampant voter fraud in this country that when our president was elected he claimed -- i think he also just made a statement in florida that people were going and voting, coming back outside, changing putting on a disguise and going back in, but in georgia, brian kemp's responsibility and administrative responsibility based on georgia's law of use it or lose it was to administratively remove inactive voters from their rolls. i do not classify that as voter suppression. however, there was a significant amount of acts that took place in georgia that one could certainly conclude was voter suppression, certain areas as you spoke to populated by african-americans, you have an african-american woman running to be the first african-american governor of that state, it doesn't seem like its coincidence that they closed certain polling places. so, no, republicans shouldn't cheer that we would win a governor's seat by any effect that would depress or minimize the ability for people to exercise their right to vote. >> david, we really sounding the alarm as loudly as we should about these acts of voter suppression, including voter i.d. and other things that have been proven to be impediments to voters and disproportionately to voters of color, particular blacks? >> finally, yes, i think we are and the silver lining in what we saw in georgia was bringing national attention to the issues of voter suppression to restrictive voter i.d. laws and when you have officials who are overseeing their own elections. i think you've reached a critical turning point here and this obviously is a problem that goes well beyond georgia. this is a republican tactic that has been going on for quite some time that continues and they simply feel that they win when fewer people vote and i think stacey abrams has done a tremendous service by spotlighting this issue, finally and going forward, think donors, voters are going to be energized for strategy in the south and the southwest where we saw some critical gains in seats in the house in georgia. we saw what happened in arizona and so i think there's continued investment in these places. >> no question about it. the panel, stay with me. we'll be back to you. up next, guess who believes democrats change shirts so they can vote illegally twice? 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>> the democrats will control the house and change is coming to washington. >> this week the national action network held our annual legislative conference in washington and as you just heard, president trump loomed large over the proceedings, but would midterms mostly in the rear-view mirror, this year's conference also played like a role call of likely democratic hopefuls for the 2020 presidential race. well, earlier i spoke with potential 2020 presidential candidate, senator bernie sanders. >> we're joined now by senator bernie sanders. senator, in this week's legislative conference, i introduced you saying that i think you are more than anyone has impacted the 2016 primary season and the direction of the democratic party nationally and now that the midterms are over, i want to get to 2020 and you know i'm going to ask you about it, but before we go there, tell me what your takeaway is from the -- from the 2018 midterm elections? what message did it send to america and to the body politic as we know it today? >> first of all, the very good news is that four years ago in the midterm election we had the lowest voter turnout in modern american history. last week we had the highest voter turnout and that is a good thing and the result of that, of course, is the democrats won close to 40 seats in the house. they are going to control the house. they won seven governors races, they won hundreds of legislative races in state capitals all over this country and they won the popular vote by a significant amount. so the good news is that we mobilized the grassroots and they came out. obviously, a lot of republicans came out as well and we had some results that we were not happy about. second of all, i know a lot of people are saying what happened in florida, what happened in georgia, what happened in texas? truth is those three candidates, stacey abrams, andrew gillum, beto o'rourke won grassroots campaign and they excited people and they did better in their states running on a progressive agenda than any candidates in those states in recent years. the last point i would make on that al, is to me it is very clear that the american people support the progressive agenda. they do not support the republican agenda. the republicans want to give tax breaks to billionaires and cut social security, medicare and medicaid. nobody agrees with that. people do want to raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour. they do want pay equity for women. they do want to make public colleges and universities either free or affordable. they do want health care for all as a right. they do want to create jobs, building the infrastructure. they support criminal justice reform, immigration reform, dealing with the crisis of climate change. those are our issues and we have got to win elections fighting on those principles. >> now, people voted in record numbers. the question now is to go into legislation and policy, some of which you have outlined, how do you think welfare in dealing with issues like voting rights and dealing with voter suppression and preexisting conditions, health care and other items that you mentioned and that we discussed this week in the conference in washington? how do we get the conversation there, because there's a lot of chatter about who should be the speaker, who should be this chairman or that chairman of committee, but the people voted because they wanted change? >> that's exactly right, al. i think we have got to be both. you will remember -- you will remember and i remember newt gingrich back with so-called contract with america. i disagreed with everything that he said, but he was bold and he said in 100 days we're going to do a to z and that's what we've got to do. we've got to raise that minimum wage up front, 15 bucks an hour, pay equity for women. we have got to go forward on medicare for all. al, the first, you know -- the first year of my four year phasein of medicare for all calls for lowering the eligibility age from 65 to 55 covering all of the children and lowering the cost of prescription drugs. my guess is 75%, 80% of the american people would support us. let us do that. let's rebuild the infrastructure. let us make public colleges and universities affordable. let us deal with climate change. let us deal with the outrages we see in criminal justice right now. these are not only good policy issues, it is what american people want. so my message is, let us be bold, not timid. let us show the american people that we are on their side. obviously we got to deal with trump and his racism and his sexism and his homophobia and religious bigotry and we've got to deal with his attacks on democracy, but we can't just do that, we need to stand up for working families and let them know that when they voted for us, they will see a difference in their lives. we've got to deliver. >> now, 2020 everyone is talking about this candidate or that candidate. a central question is, will bernie sanders run again? >> and the answer is, al, i will make that decision at the appropriate time. i will be honest with you, you're a friend, you know, we're looking at it, but it is a very -- it is a very -- its a decision that impacts your family and i want to make sure that when i make that decision, if i decide to run, that i have concluded, in fact, that i am the strongest candidate who can defeat donald trump. we got some great people out there who are thinking of running. they are my friends. and i've got to make that decision that, based on my background, based on my past, based on my ideas that, in fact, i am the candidate that can defeat trump -- >> you're not ruling it out, you're saying you're seriously considering it? >> that is correct. >> now, what type of candidate do you think the democratic party and independents need to defeat the president if he's the candidate in 2020? >> i think you need a candidate who has -- can focus on -- two ways, two approaches. number one, we've got to deal with the ugliness of donald trump, his a thor tearion, his racism and sexism and all of that. that has got to be dealt with. we're talking about the future of american democracy. i think you and i who have known each other for a few years would never have thought that in 2018 we really would be talking about the need to protect the fundamentals of american democracy. >> right. >> from an authoritarian president. we would've talked about health care or the environment or criminal justice. not about the fundamentals of american democracy and to protect those fundamentals against an authoritarian president. obviously, you got to deal with that. second of all, going back to the work that you have done, jesse jackson has done. we've got to bring our coalition together. that means working people who are black and white and latino, asian american, native american to demand that we have an economy and a government that works for all. unemployment today is reasonably low. that's good. but there are tens of millions of workers today who cannot afford to take care of their families on nine, 10, 11 bucks an hour. 30 million people have no health insurance. people who can't afford prescription drugs. people all over this country are looking at their kids and see their kids will have a lower standard of living than they did. people are worried about the potential horrors of climate change and what it will mean to this planet. our job, al, is to bring people together, to do exactly the opposite of what trump does. he's trying to divide us up. we got to bring people together around an agenda that works for all of us and not just the 1%. >> senator bernie sanders, thank you for being with us. >> thank you, al. up next, president trump says he has finished his open book take home exam. i'll explain just a moment. that would eventually become verizon's. that call opened the door to the billions of mobile calls that we've all made since. i'm proud i was part of that first call, and i'm proud that i'm here now as we build america's first and only 5g ultra wideband network that will transform how we all live, once again. (bob) the first call that we've made on the cellular system. opportunlike here.rywhere. and here. see? opportunity. ev-er-y-where. about to be parents. meeting the parents. and this driver, logging out to watch his kid hit one out of the... (bat hits ball) opportunity is everywhere. all you have to do to find it is get out...here. ♪ ♪ applebee's bigger, bolder grill combos are back. now that's eatin good in the neighborhood. for each job exxonmobil creates, many more are created in the community. because energy touches so many industries, it supports 10 million u.s. jobs. welcome back. president trump says he has answered all of the written questions from special counsel robert mueller and plans to submit them to the department of justice next week, but as far as in-person interview, the president says, they haven't even talked about it. will the two eventually meet face-to-face? back with me maya wildly, david brock, liz copeland and chris lu. let me go to you first, david. what do you take of the president announcing he's finished the written questions and he wrote them himself, not the lawyers and saying they haven't even talked about an in-person event while he continues at the same time to attack the mueller investigation in total? >> i think the attacks as we've seen for the last week and the fact that president trump seems to be coming unglued over what the progress over the process the mueller investigation is making. i think that he knows and the reason he's lashing out now is that he knows he blew it. the time to really obstruct this investigation was long ago. he's been complaining about jeff sessions and his lack of recusal for a year and a half and the backlash the whittaker appointment has seen not only among democrats, but among republicans, i think shows him the train has left the station and it's really closing in on him and it's too late for him to really do what he wants to do, which is shut this thing down. >> let me ask you as the republican on the panel, liz, your reaction to this big bash lash on the appointment of whitaker and where we are with the president. obviously people feel there's going to be congressional subpoenas, investigations. does this really become too bring us to a point i'd rather say to where the republicans might have to start stepping away from this president? >> i think that you see recently, with kellyanne conway's husband forming the checks and balance group of conservative lawyers. some of their members are the federalists society, which is a strict constructionalist group when they're viewing the constitution. i think that group speaks out to how republicans are concerned. about this president's ability to understand the constitution and his authority and the limits on it when you're talking about principle officers. can't just appoint someone to a position to be confirmed. you can nominate them, just can't decide who you want to ultimately manage an individual who is investigating your actions and the russian influence prior to this presidency. during the campaign of 2016, but at the end of the day, while this new congress in the house, they're going to come in and start to investigate, they spoke abt. they're going to do a lot of investigation. i don't know for certain they're going to reveal, uncover anything in addition to what mueller is already doing. ipg we as a country, especially those within washington, d.c., those within this party, the republican party, need to support the process. need to support the rule of law and to make sure we speak out as president if he runs afoul of that. >> chris, you and the vus tis the president, how to you respond to where we are with whitaker and the president submitting this week his written answers, not committing, saying they're not even talking about an in person interview with him. >> it's important to understand that he has submitted written answers to only some questions. they're the questions that were asked about the preelection conduct. rudy giuliani has indicated they probably won't respond to the ones that deal with the presidential transition period and the special counsel hasn't even asked b about the obstruction issues, so we are a long way from this process being complete completed. we also have coming up soon, testimony potentially from people like manafort, cohen, mike flynn. other indictments coming down the road, so whether the president answers will have to be evaluated in light of the testimony of other witnesses. >> maya, as the one of the legal analysts here, how do you read, why, when does the president get passed the brag doe shouse stage? when does he begin to show he understands the seriousness of revealing here, talking about a foreign government that is adversary y adversarial, interfering with the elections of the united states. i think he understands how important it is or he wouldn't have put matthew whitaker in his u.s. attorney general. the reason for that is because it was very clear to him whitaker remember, made very, very public statements about mueller being out of bounds. he actually made statements about mueller, without knowing any of the evidence that robert mueller had because only robert mueller's team knows what robert mueller has. that robert mueller did not have evidence of a conspiracy to defraud the united states. to make those statements and by the way, we know from some reports that one of the witnesses in the mueller investigation is the one who suggest ed that in order to elevate his profile with president trump for appointments in the administration, that heshherd be a tv pundit and make those statements. that's who we have over the investigation. and trump put him there because he feels the heat. >> i have to stop you, but thank you. up next, my final thoughts. to sk you. up next, my final thoughts i landed. i saw my leg did not look right. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner that's... proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. xarelto® works differently. warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your body's natural blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. while taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can... to help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. i just got my ancestrydna results: 74% italian. and i found out that i'm from the big toe of that sexy italian boot! calabria. it even shows the migration path from south italia all the way to exotico new jersey! so this holiday season it's ancestrydna per tutti! order your kit now at ancestry.com [ready forngs ] christmas? no, it's way too early to be annoyed by christmas. you just need some holiday spirit! that's it! this feud just went mobile. with xfinity xfi you get the best wifi experience at home. and with xfinity mobile, you get the best wireless coverage for your phone. ...you're about to find out! you don't even know where i live... hello! see the grinch in theaters by saying "get grinch tickets" into your xfinity x1 voice remote. a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. last sunday in midlothian, illinois, a man starting shooting in a neighborhood bar. immediately as people began running, a security guard there at the site tackled the man, brought him to the ground. when police arrived, this black security guard holding him down was shot by one of the police officers. the community, activists and clergy have called for justice. why would this officer u assume the black security guard was the assailant rather than the guy he was holding down, particular ly when the crowd was yelling, he's a skaurt guard, a security guard. i join them in saying this must be thoroughly investigated. we do not know the name of the officer. just told he was white and had been on duty seven years. what kind of justice is this that when you do your job and secure a scene where three people were injured by a gunman, you end up dead? we cannot keep having these mistak mistakes. and they go unaccounted for. that does it for me. thanks for watching. see you here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern. up next, dead lip white house, with my friend, nicole wallace. , with my friend, nicole wallace hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. donald trump has finished his homework and he did it all by himself. the president announcing today that he has completed his written responses to robert mueller and he did it without stance. >> i write answers. i was asked a series of questions. i'm sure they're tricked up because ta like to catch people, was the weather sunny or rainy. he said it might have been a good day. hfs rainy. therefore he told a lie. he purgered himself. so you have to be careful when your
>> enter the a-team. a band of tough guy private eyes. >> this guy's got something to hide. >> there had been a brief encounter with a mysterious stranger. >> on the train coming home, she had met this woman. >> did that hold the answer? >> she's talking about how someone has tried to assume her identity. >> a chilling case of a daughter in danger. >> somebody was after her. >> strangers on a train. hello and welcome to dateline extra, i'm craig melvin. she was beautiful, talented trusting and sometimes troubled. a young woman finally grabbing the promise in life. right up until the day she vanished. when the police seemed unable to find her, her family hatched a plan, an unusual strategy to solve the mystery. here's keith morris. >> it began on a bright morning in may. the palmetto slipped from its platform at washington's union station and eased out into an eight hour run down the eastern seaboard to charleston, south carolina. on board was a beautiful, tall and feisty redhead named kate warring. the daughter of a fine southern family, a troubled young woman who was finally on the brink of something very good. and what is it about trains? the ease there in that enclosed space of befriending perfect strangers. somewhere along the line between a greeting and good bye, kate waring's invisible fate jumped its track. and quite unaware of the dark force descending, she disemba disembarked to a future utterly changed. charleston, south carolina. it almost goes without saying, is a showpiece of american history and southern manners. its charm is deeply embedded as the families who count seven, eight, ten generations here. kate waring was born to one of those families. grew up in a fine big house along the historic waterfront called the battery. dance lessons, birthday parties. >> dad if we catch a turtle, can we keep it? >> doting parents, janice and tom, who adored their only daughter. she had your essentially wrapped around her finger? >> absolutely. she was the love of my life. and not stupidly so. i mean, i could not always tell when i was being manipulated, but some of the time. >> sure. >> no, katie and i had a very special bond always. >> she was the middle child, sam was between two brothers, older joe, younger richard. she was bright. maybe too bright. school bored her. animals, all animals enchanted her. she was naive, sweet. as younger brother richard saw it, she could not turn away a stray, animal or human. >> she was a very kind person. where as some people would dismiss someone who wasn't generally accepted by most, she would kind of try to help those people out. >> but somewhere in the course of an enchanted childhood, something happened to kate. outsiders saw a fearless tomboy morph into a sophisticated debutante. at home, kate struggled with eating disorders, depression. college was a frequently interrupted disaster. >> she sort of ran toward risk. i noticed that in a lot of things she did. she seemed to court it. >> her parents discovered she had been sexually abused when she was little they knew. she lost her driver's license, she abused drugs, she sobered up, she fell off the wagon. she came home to live with her parents. tried and failed at dozens of strategies to achieve the straight and narrow. then finally, out of desperation, tom waring offered kate a trip with him anywhere she wanted to go. anywhere on the planet. to see polar bears. it must have been an amazing trip? >> it was the trip of a lifetime. i'm so happy that we shared that together. >> the photographs show how happy she was there. >> she saw a young man who, with their family, about her age, who were happy and she said to me, dad, i don't have to settle for what i've settled for, do i? and i said, no, honey, you don't. you can basically write your own script. >> and it was a bit of magic. the change seemed almost instant. kate reborn. on board the ship was a russian crewman who was amazed how quickly kate picked up his language, which is why months after that trip the newly inspired kate travelled to moscow to meet him again to explore the city, the culture, and to test drive both a budding relationship and her fledgling russian skills. the snapshots are more than souvenirs, they were portraits of a young woman transformed. the kate who stood her on red square had a new passion in life, the depressions of the past had fallen away. she was consumed by all things russian. in fact, she was making plans even here, to return to moscow in the summer to take up russian studies. finally, her life was taking off. and that's why kate waring was in washington that fine may morning. she was on her way back to russia, but there was a problem with the visa. a paperwork mix up sort of thing that would send her into a tailspin once, but now the new kate vowed to try again later. boarded the train to charleston and threw herself into college classes and a children's book she had been writing. her big brother was to say the least, encouraged. >> she, when i talked to her, was the happiest i can remember hearing her in the last ten years. she sounded good. she sounded as if she was ready, had a conviction about what she wanted to do. >> and then it was june. heat rising in charleston's deepening green. on saturday morning, june 13thpatjune 13th, tom waring felt an absence. the cell phone hadn't wrong, no call from kate. kate who called her parents practically hourly. he drove home to check her room here in the big silent house on the battery. >> all the lights were on. it looked like, obviously, katie had planned to come back. she'd left her medicine. she never went anywhere without her medicine. >> and then on sunday, we came by the house also no sign of her. >> now there was dread. was it possible that kate had slipped back into that old destructive life? >> we called the police station, we called the detention center. >> wow. so this is by the end of the weekend? >> nobody had a jane doe in the hospital. we called our friends and nobody had heard from her. >> what to do? kate was 28. though she lived at home, she was an adult, her decisions bad or good were hers. they elected to give it one more day. if she wasn't back by monday they'd call the police. and then when monday came, there was word. no, not from kate. from kate's bank. >> once i got off the phone with the branch manager, i called the police. >> what were you thinking then? >> i was thinking something is wrong. >> coming up, something was wrong. but could they discover what and would the police help? >> i thought i'm not going to put up with this. we've got to get going, we've got to get moving on this. >> when strangers on a train continues. >> when strangers on a train continues. i'm a veteran and the army taught me a lot about commitment. which i apply to my life and my work. at comcast we're commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. and if we are ever late, we'll give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. my name is antonio and i'm a technician at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. welcome back to dateline extra. returning to our story, here again is keith morris. it was monday morning the 15th of june, 2009. kate waring had been missing for 48 hours when a surveillance camera captured a young man named ethan mack standing at the counter of a bank waiting to cash a check signed by kate waring. problem was her account barely totalled $100, and this check was for $4500, and the signature seemed off. the teller called kate's dad. he called police. >> i never met ethan, didn't know ethan's last name. all i knew was the name ethan who was a friend. it's too strong to say that she had a secret life, but she certainly had friends and did things that we didn't know anything about. >> of course she did. she was 28 years old. and even though she was financially and emotionally dependent on her parents, she had lots of friends. some they knew, some they didn't. it was howard gatts, for example, a martial arts trainer in the midst of a contentious divorce with whom kate had been carrying on something of a romance. >> i felt that in my heart something was wrong. and i was -- i was concerned. >> then there was jason locke, a young lawyer with whom she often shared lunch and a spirited debate. >> she was strong-willed. she was very energetic. she was rarely, rarely incorrect. that's a -- >> her best friend, as she made clear to all the others, was ethan mack. >> she really liked ethan. she really trusted him. "this is my best friend, jason." she put a lot of trust in him. >> she's a lovable person, full of energy, always rambunctious. >> ethan worked in a local hotel. a very different background than kate. but he'd been her best buddy for years and in a way her protector. everybody in ethan's neighborhood knew you didn't mess with kate when ethan was around. they loved each other like -- well, siblings. >> i made sure no harm would come to her when certain little boyfriends would act like they got hand problems. i would put them in their place -- >> it wasn't a romance at all then? >> never at all. she was like a little sister to me. >> it was a token of his family's regard for kate that she was godmother to ethan's nephew, malachi. on her moscow trip, kate bought herself and ethan matching brass bulldog key chains. and on that monday morning in june, said ethan, he was very worried about kate, just as he had been for years as he helped her battle her demons. >> calm her down and talking to her and understanding what was going on in the world of kate. >> but now he complained, here was kate's dad sending the police to talk to him about a check kate told him to cash. ethan explained to the cop, david osborne, about the money he'd given kate for jewelry and other expenses and that the check was to pay him back. >> he was basically best friends with katherine, had been for several years. >> in fact, ethan told detective osborne he was very likely the last friend to see her before she disappeared. >> he said that he had saw her friday night, had dinner, had drinks, came back, dropped kate off back at her house. >> did he say what time? >> yeah. i think the time would have been probably around 11:30, 11:45 at that time. >> the detective checked, of course, and found text messages that confirmed what ethan told him. he even went to the house ethan shared with his mom. >> and they both let me in. and they both allowed me to search it. the mother and ethan both told me this is his room, this is where he stays. >> but to say that the instant suspicion on the part of the warings and the police was upsetting to ethan was probably an understatement. >> good evening, mr. waring and mrs. waring. this is ethan mack calling -- >> this is the voicemail he left for the warings after that policeman poked around his place as if he was some murder suspect. >> i think you need really check that and go find out or go see what really happened and find the person who did something to her and stop harassing me. cause the only thing i ever did was try to help her in a million ways. >> so dead end. the police moved past ethan, checked kate's cell phone record, found she'd made a call late that friday that pinged on a tower in a place called james island, several miles from her house. but phone pings can be funny that way sometimes, they told the warings. one tower's busy, the next over picks it up. probably made the call from home, they said. they also promised to keep looking for her. but really kate was known to have gotten herself in and out of trouble a time or two, and police resources were limited. and well, tom waring got the cops' message. >> we do not know for a fact that a crime has been committed here. >> after all, the warings were reminded, kate was a world traveler. could well have just picked up and gone back to russia. might be aboard some tramp steamer even now. or if something bad happened to her, could have been a drug overdose, even suicide. impossible, thought kate's parents. even in her darkest times, she'd never failed to call. >> if she spent the night out unexpectedly, we'd get a call first thing the next morning because she knew that we would worry about where she was and was she safe. >> so the warings began picking apart that friday, the last day anyone saw kate, looking for something they may have missed. but it had been such a normal day. she had no driver's license, remember, so she asked howard gatts to give her a lift to her therapist's office. >> gave me a hug, said good-bye, thank you very much. she was in a real good mood. >> an hour and a half later, howard saw her again. this time at the gym. >> she said, is it okay i skip rope over here, howard? i said, sure, kate, that's fine. >> mind you, there was an incident at the gym. howard's soon-to-be ex-wife came around. she and kate had words. but at 8:00 p.m., a drugstore camera showed kate relaxed, talking on her cell, buying wine and snacks while waiting on her prescription refill. ethan paid for dinner. chicken, salmon teriyaki. >> like a japanese like -- kind of like cuisine-type thing. >> she didn't drive, so he took her home. dropped her off before midnight. something earlier that friday that bothered the warings at first was terrifying them now. the more they thought about it, the worse it seemed. just before she went to the drug store friday evening, she started telling her father about some problem. >> saying that she felt like she perhaps had unintentionally got herself in trouble. and i said, "well, why don't you tell me about that." and she wouldn't tell me any details. >> was she clearly worried? >> she was concerned. >> clearly worried. >> about something. >> naturally they told the police about that. nothing came of it. and as the air thickened into a steamy august, the weeks that passed brought no new leads. just tourists clamoring for the cool shade of historic carriage rides. and kate waring, the urgency of finding her, began to fade. >> and that was driving me nuts. i thought, i'm not going to put up with this. we've got to get going. we've got to get moving on this. >> and in the hushed cool of his perch overlooking the city, someone was listening. coming up, a new investigation begins, but it's not the police who are behind it. >> we're the cream of the crop, and our job was to find kate waring. not finding kate was not an option. >> who are these guys? when strangers on a train continues. rs on a train continues. the official investigation into what happened to kate waring was going nowhere. so one of charleston's more prominent and generous citizens made some calls. here again is keith morris. take a little drive beyond the grand old homes and markets and churches at the historic district center of charleston, south carolina. enter quietly the hushed suite of rooms overlooking the city where an influential philanthropist flipped through his mental roledex and placed a call to his friend, the chief of police. >> i really need a favor. i really need some help with this situation. >> the caller was this man, john rivers. happened to be a childhood friend of tom waring, watched kate waring grow up. john rivers told the police chief he was worried about kate, too. >> and he told me that, you know, they got a lot of stuff going on. >> sure. >> but that he would assign his best and brightest to the case. and i felt pretty good about that. >> but now almost two months later, kate was still missing. and the investigation such as it was had accomplished nothing. and john rivers couldn't stand what it was doing to his best friend, tom waring. >> i could see that he really was having a hard time functioning. >> so rivers picked up the phone again and told this man, "do what it takes." his name is andy savage, former prosecutor, now famously tenacious criminal defense attorney. savage had heard about kate, too, and how police had no evidence of any crime. really? >> as soon as we scratched the surface just a little bit, we were absolutely convinced that foul play was involved. >> savage was given just two mandates -- find kate waring, tell police everything you find. that last part, keeping the police in the loop, should be easy, figured andy, given the team he assembled. a band of retired policemen-turned-private eyes. each with a particular talent. >> bobby minter. >> bobby minter, human blood expert. tracking people without them knowing, his specialty. >> bill capps. >> bill capps, techno geek. tracks bad guys through cyber-space. happens to be a crack shot. >> james randolph. >> james randolph. ex-police department rebel. strategy his specialty. shaking things up a particular skill. >> we're the cream of the crop. and our job was to find kate waring. not finding kate was not an option. >> experience told james the best place to start was with kate herself. >> if we listen to kate, she'll tell us where she is. >> james went to the house on the battery, up the stairs, down the hall, and into kate's bedroom. >> these type cases, you have to take on the personality, and you have to see this person's world through their eyes. >> he sat there for a bit, looked around. the russian notes in kate's handwriting made sense, but why chinese paper money? and why was her brand-new prescription sitting there untouched? >> the medication in which she had gotten for a prescription was still on her dresser, unused. >> that medication was her lifeline. she needed it to counter depression, anxiety, insomnia. she never left home without it. meanwhile, cyber-sleuth bill capps buried himself in social media sites. kate used them. bill scoured them all. >> if she was awake, she was facebooking, she was texting, she was calling people on the phone, she was e-mailing. and at the time she went missing, when everything immediately ceased, i mean, that was completely out of character for her. >> using kate's friends, capps built an electronic map of her communications the friday night she vanished. from kate's friend jason locke, capps retrieved the weird voicemail left that evening. >> 10:06 p.m., missed call. voicemail. voicemail said that someone had "stolen her identity," and had obtained a couple of credit cards in her name. she wanted me to sue the person responsible. >> the gym trainer and kate's romantic interest, howard gatts, told capps he heard from her about 10:30 p.m., still at dinner with ethan then. there was another call. it was after midnight. well after police believe she was dropped off at home. >> she told me she was at some friend's house. they had already made it to the house. she sounded a little buzzed. >> and then a very last message from kate. a text. very strange. >> "i'm off to greenville to pick up some lovely." whatever lovely was i had no idea, you know, and, "i'll be back in a few days." >> did that make sense to you? >> no. >> be careful, he replied. but this time she did not text back. silence from kate. except the middle of the night, her cell phone pinged out on james island, miles from her home. the cops had surmised, remember, that a closer tower to her house may have been too busy to handle the call. but at 1:53 in the morning? not a chance, thought andy savage. >> just preposterous. they were looking for an explanation, plausible explanation, consistent with their theory that she voluntarily left. [ ringing ] >> that middle of the night call, by the way, was to her voicemail. >> the mailbox is full -- >> the voicemail box that had been jammed full once during which time she hadn't used it or called it at all. so the question -- >> why would she call voicemail? she would not be doing it. >> only one conclusion to draw. >> somebody else was using her phone. >> but where was kate now? had she as the one text suggested left town looking for drugs or lovely? if that's what lovely meant? for the moment, it was a dead end. and then -- then he called. eugene frazier, legendary 34-year homicide detective now retired. >> i believe that if a man commits a crime, he should be prepared to do the time. >> thing is about gene frazier, over here on charleston's james island where his ancestors go back to slave days, gene gets tips. all kinds of tips. and one day a church friend told gene he'd heard the police had been to ethan mack's house. and something strange about that. >> said, "listen, i don't think this is right," he says. "ethan mack is living in an apartment that i have rented out to his father." >> but the police didn't search this place where ethan actually lived, said the landlord. they searched his mother's house on a different island miles away where ethan told them he lived. >> and he says, "i think that he's trying to mislead the police." >> what did you think when you heard that? >> this guy got something to hide. >> and on that very day, gene frazier joined a band of ex-cops which, from now on, we'll call the a-team. coming up, a mysterious woman entered the picture. >> katie had this strange girl in the room with her. >> who was she? the a-team was about to launch a hidden camera surprise when strangers on a train continues. s hi, an 8-year-old boy died today while in custody of u.s. customs and border protection. he is the second child to die in custody this month. after calling u.s. troops stationed overseas for christmas today, president trump expressed frustration over the government shutdown. >> it's a disgrace what's happening in our country. but other than that, i wish everybody a very merry christmas. with that, back to dateline. . returning to strangers on a train, here again is keith morr morris. by the time andy savage put his a-team together to look for kate waring, that lovely young charleston woman had been missing two months. according to kate's parents, tom and janice, the charleston police were still saying this -- >> they think maybe she went somewhere. she's probably just up in greenville. >> what did you say to that? >> she doesn't have a car. how's she going to get there? >> it was after that when the a-team's gene frazier got a tip. kate's best friend ethan lied about where he lived. he didn't live where he allowed police to search. he really lived in one of two apartments five miles away which you presented to the police. >> yes. >> and? >> they didn't search the house. they never got a search warrant. they never asked for permission to search the house. they never said, "hey, you misled us two months ago." >> but as the a-team discovered, ethan failed to mention something else, too. he had a girlfriend in this little place, a woman named heather angelica kamp. and when janice waring heard that, her mind went straight to an afternoon at home three months earlier. >> i heard voices upstairs. and so i went up, and katie had this strange girl in -- that i'd never met before in the room with her. >> and that was her name, heather kamp. kate explained she met and rapidly became fast friends with heather on the train to palmetto during her trip down from washington. typical kate, janice thought back then. drawn to someone who needed help, who had told her a hard luck story. >> she said when she got on the train, her pocketbook was stolen. and she's here in charleston, and she doesn't have any money. and i'm helping her out until she can whatever. >> but kate told her mother that heather would pay her back soon because she was a pediatric surgeon in charleston to take a new post at the local medical center. then a few days later, a distraught kate told her mother that heather's daughter back home in new jersey had been killed in a car accident. but something seemed odd about that, said janice. >> didn't seem like she was rushing to go up to new jersey to attend to the child that had been -- >> or that she was a grief-stricken woman. >> grief-stricken woman. she did not look that way at all. >> and now here was news that heather was living with kate's friend, ethan, in this tiny apartment. >> to me, she looked like a con artist. >> but no, said kate back then. janice had it all wrong. heather was nice. in fact, kate said she'd introduced heather to her friend ethan and very quickly a romance had blossomed. they were even talking marriage. really? if janice waring was suspicious about heather back then, the a-team was doubly so now. sure enough a few key strokes on the internet told bobby that mother's intuition was right. >> she had been arrested for forgery in indiana. but she'd been arrested in other states, too. >> essentially if you just googled her name, i suppose you could find out a fair amount. >> that's how i found her. she'd been impersonating a doctor. i just googled her. >> and ethan wouldn't be her first husband. she had been married before and had four children. now that they knew about heather a few fuzzy details were suddenly clearer. the one thing -- the last dinner with ethan made more sense because there were three meals on the dinner bill. the other diner was heather kamp. and more important, that check ethan tried to cash, the one the teller flagged, maybe that was another heather forgery. right away, point man james randolph rushed that information over here to police headquarters. surely somebody here would put two and two together. a woman known to have committed forgery in indiana and other states, a so-called best friend who tries to cash a bogus check with kate's name on it and lies to police. seems like evidence these two were involved in her disappearance up to their necks. enough to haul them in anyway, but -- >> i was told that the story panned out. and that these were petty criminals, and the check was going to be taken separate from the missing person. >> what did you say to that? >> i just didn't think it was the right thing to do. we had to figure out who wrote and endorsed those checks, who signed and wrote the checks. >> sure. it was obvious the a-team would have to find the connection between ethan and heather and kate's disappearance without police help. >> sort of remained stealthy as much as possible. >> time to keep a careful, quiet eye on ethan mack and heather kamp. so gene frazier persuaded his church friend, ethan's landlord, to allow surveillance specialist bobby minter to tuck a hidden camera into the corner of the kitchen window. a camera trained right at ethan's front door. >> it was a motion detected just like the light that they've got over the door is. when they drove in, it would light up, and it would light up for our camera. >> the whole camera itself, keith, was about the size of this little flashlight. it was pointed directly at the apartments. >> that's pretty slick. >> no doubt about it. >> and that's enough illumination to illuminate to see what they would be carrying. and that would lead us to know that they had something to do with kate's disappearance. >> and when ethan and heather left the apartment, bobby had that covered, too. he'd already tracked ethan to his job at a local hotel and attached a gps locator on his car as it sat in the parking lot. now there was no minute of the day when the team didn't know where ethan and heather were and what they were doing. and almost immediately, they got a surprise. when ethan was at work, heather sneaked over to visit the man living next door. rode around town with him. >> they were going to the bank a lot. and i called one of the investigators of wachovia. as a result of that, they found that they were kiting checks. they were actually stealing money from the bank. >> despite what bobby told the bank, it never resulted in charges against anybody. but that wasn't all he discovered. the gps tracker on ethan's car led bobby to a couple of local pawnshops. >> pawning jewelry. the jewelry was a red flag to us. >> was it kate's jewelry? they couldn't be sure yet without more surveillance, that is. and then the landlord called gene again, another tip. this one bad. ethan and heather weren't paying rent. >> he says, "i'm going to evict these people." so after he said that -- >> this is not good news. >> i said, "hold on. if these people are evicted, we don't know where they're going." >> if the a-team didn't think of something and fast, heather and ethan might slip out of their sight and charleston for good. >> coming up, an enticing offer from the a-team. 10,000 reasons to start talking. >> 10s, 20s, 50s. everybody sees that and their eyes just jump. >> when strangers on a train continues. rangers on a train continues. at booking.com, we can't guarantee you'll find gold in them therr hills on your vacation. but we can guarantee the best price on this rental cabin. or any accomodation from hotels to yurts. booking.com, booking.yeah . . returning to "strangers on a train," here again is keith morrison. >> reporter: it was so awkward now but necessary, the once very private warings are their only daughter's intensely personal struggles were so glaringly public. they had to be. >> you can't just sit back and home she would be found. we worked every day all day long trying to find her. >> reporter: that's when it hit home, kate was the latest of hundreds of people still lost in south carolina, and it seemed to janice and tom that police weren't taking cases like theirs seriously. so what about those other families also desperate for help? the warings held a vigil for the common cause. >> somehow or another, somebody will be moved and want to come forward and tell us where katie is. >> reporter: that was the public waring family. at home the private tom waring couldn't help be drawn to the playback button on the voicemail just to hear her voice. >> dad, mom, if you're there, pick up the phone. if you're there, pick up the phone. call me back later, bye. >> i would look at photographs of her or play those voicemail messages. just keeping her voice current in my mind. >> reporter: meanwhile, andy savage's a-team of ex-detectives were making progress and when they flashed that fat bag of cash around the neighborhood, they got a rise out of ethan and heather. a furious ethan called andy. >> there are investigators out here accusing me of being involved in this, kate was my best friend in life. as he's on the phone, kim calls. she starts out in this rage, what are you doing out here, accusing me of this, we had nothing to do with that. >> reporter: fascinating reaction, thought andy savage, and perhaps an opportunity. >> we had did a lot of background on kamp so we knew her and knew about her personality and we knew what buttons to push. the reaction towards heather was one of comfort, not one of the angst. during that time we planted the seeds as a mother, she must know the feeling of janice waring missing her daughter and trying to ply to her empathy as a mother. >> reporter: but the call from heather was all that fat bag of money accomplished, before long it reel ed in a fish. that neighbor heather was sneaking off to see called too. the a-team went to talk to her. >> he said, i know ethan and heather did something to kate. and he went into the back room and came back out and had this ipod and terry said, i believe this ipod is going to belong to kate. >> reporter: now that was huge. last time kate was seen with that ipod it was at the gym the day she went missing. now a man kate never met said heather gave him the ipod days after kate disappeared. just to be sure this was in fact kate's ipad, tech expert bill caps got the serial number and within minutes had the proof. >> i examined the registry file to the computers we had access to that kate used in the past so we had proof positive that was kate's ipod. coming up -- >> she said well, they didn't find her, did they? i knew they wouldn't find her. >> was heather kamp the con artist out of the gate? where was cakate waring? ing? hello and welcome back to "dateline" extra, i'm craig melvin. kate waring, a trusting young woman so eeg tore help those in need, had been missing for months. the trail of clues led to two of kate's friends and now the private investigators recruited by their family believed they were close to solving the final part of the mystery, finding kate at last of the but there were a few more twists in store. here again, keith morrison. >> reporter: the a-team told the police about the ipad, the one heather kamp gave to a friend daze after kate disappeared and also handed over the handwriting expert reports showing heather and ethan forged kate's check two days after she vanished and now things started happening fast. after her heart to heart with andy savage, she made the decision to call the charleston police department and confess. no, not the murder, she said it was she who foerrged the bogus check to kate waring and ethan tried to cash it two days after she disappeared. now surely police who swoop in and arrest them both. but here's something you should know about the way it worked between the a-team and their former colleagues, the cops, the deal was entirely one way. that is to say the a-team told the cops everything they uncovered. the cops told the a-team nothing. so they kept their ears to the ground, waited for something to happen. but they didn't have to wait for long. >> we knew something was up. and so first thing we did was yank the gps off the car because we didn't want the police to see the car and have our gps. >> reporter: ethan was easy enough for the charleston police to find. they arrested him at his hotel job. but they didn't seem to know where to find heather. so -- >> we had to tell them where she was working. they didn't have surveillance on her. >> you could tell them that? >> we told them where miss heather kamp was working. she's working at the sunoco gas station. >> i bought in, bought a pepsi, paid for it and walked out and a police officer in uniform pulled up and was peeping around the corner of the building. i said, that's her inside. >> reporter: ethan and heather were charged with forgery and obstruction of justice. would a murder charge follow shortly? >> we get a call -- of course, we do have friends still at the police department. we get a call, hey, the police are searching wadmalaw island for kate's body. >> reporter: wadmalaw island, wild, beautiful, isolated and 20 miles from kate's home. >> i so got in my car and i drove out to wadmalaw island. >> reporter: and there were the police, a serious search going on. >> so i sat there in the shade and watched them all afternoon. didn't attempt to interfere. >> reporter: just watched the police to see what they're doing. >> watched a lot of officers and cadaver dogs. >> ton of folks, whole shebang. >> reporter: cops had brought heather to lead them to kate waring's body. >> as a couple of detectives i knew left, i asked them any luck? and they said no and continued driving on. >> reporter: police called off the search, drove heather back to jail. had she intentionally given them bad information? perhaps nobody would find kate, not the police, not the a-team. and then -- >> we got a terrific break by the criminal justice system. mack and kamp both came to the bond hearing and it's done by video. at the bond hearing, mack shows up with this family who were all there to support him, and not only a public defender, but the chief public defender. >> reporter: wow. >> yeah. kamp has no one. she has no family, she has no friends, she has no support to speak on her behalf. i immediately said, james and gene, go see her. treat her with kindness, treat her with caring. >> reporter: within minutes the same men who upset heather with their bag of money were face to face with her. >> reporter: what was the look on her face and came out? >> she was stunned, very surprised. and i said, heather, we need help here. all we want is a body. and she said well, they didn't find it, did they? and she said, i put them through the test. they told me they were going to help me. they wouldn't arrest me and the minute i told them the area in which she was, the general area in which she was, they got all abusive with me, and they berated me. so they failed the test. >> reporter: and just at that moment what happened was -- well, sheer luck. >> directly across the lobby on the male side of the visitation area they brought mack to see his attorneys who happened to arrive the same time we did. >> reporter: coincidentally? >> it was coincidental. >> reporter: also coincidentally the jailers positioned ethan and heather across the wall from each other, separated by glass partitions. >> reporter: they could see each other? >> oh, yeah. i told him there's the lawyer and detective over there with him and she's over there ratting you out. so she started waving her arms trying to get ethan's attention so she snaps and she breaks. >> reporter: with a little more encouragement from andy savage that is. his deal, if heather told him exactly where to find kate's body and if it turned out she had nothing to do with any murder andy would help her with her forgery charges. and at that moment heather kamp agreed to tell the a-team what they needed to know. her directions were precise. they drove out here right away. >> that's the large oak tree she described. then she says if you look farther up to your left of the marsh, you'll see a dock that's running down to the water. and she says, after you do that, you'll look to your left over here to on my right and left, and you will see some underbrush growing and she said, that kate remains -- or she said the body -- is five feet from this path, from this roadway. >> reporter: incredibly detailed, just the sort of place to leave a body. but just like the police, the team found nothing. >> i was very disturbed. why are we not finding her? as i said, we were convinced she was here. >> reporter: they searched until darkness. typal finally forced them out of the marsh and then they called andy savage, who's out of town on business. >> they're on a cell phone from where they are on a hotel in boston. i pinch up the address from google earth and i'm looking at the satellite imagery of where they are. i said well, james, is there a dock off to your left? i was pretty well able to identify where they were. so i said what you got to do is just print that off. >> reporter: isn't that amazing you can do that from thousands of miles away? >> you can also do it from the police station. >> reporter: the google map clearly showed the a-team exactly how and where they lost the trail. after investigating so much, savage wasn't ready to give up on heather. but he wasn't naive either. >> we knew that she was a sociopath liar. i wanted something specific from her. give me something that nobody else knows so that we can believe what you're saying is truthful. and that's when she told us about the souvenirs from kate's body, the jewelry she was wearing and where it was located. >> reporter: they found kate's jewelry at a pawnshop and behind the dresser in their tiny apartment kate's bulldog key chain, the one she had gotten in moscow, ethan he, said heather, took it from kate's purse as a memento. she was telling them the truth. so they decided next morning first light armed with the google map and more detail from heather, the team would return to wadmalaw island. >> now all we were believing was coming to fruition, all of the suspicion about her activity and mack's activity, at that point we knew we had the right people. >> reporter: one thing, they'd be going without the police. good idea? maybe not. coming up -- the a-team under arrest? >> reporter: you mean you were arrested? >> we were not free and they made that clear. >> this was a twist even they didn't see coming when "strangers on a train" continues. continues. i just got my cashback match, is this for real? yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. that i never would have imagined. ancestrydna was able to tell me where my father's family came from in columbia. it's just been a reconnection to my roots. 20 million members have connected to a deeper family story. order your kit at ancestry.com. returning to "strangers on a train," the a-team felt they were closing in on their mission to find kate waring, but there were more surprises ahead. once again, keith morrison. >> reporter: the early sun had cooked the marshes of watt mala island. they shared a car to the city and road in silence most of the way, confident the precise directions heather kamp had given them were correct this time. so this was it. it was somehow fitting that bobby, the one they called the human bloodhound, was the first to spot her. >> and i saw what looked like an animal path where animals or something had pretty much beat down the bush. so i walked out to the animal path and started walking parallel with the road, and walked up and i saw what looked like bones, and i said, i think i found her. i said hey, hey, y'all, come here, i think i found her. i said it was just like a ton of bricks come off me at that point. i said oh, my god, there she is. wasn't much, wasn't much left. just bones. >> reporter: in the end it took only six minutes to find the earthly remains of kate waring, and thus at last fulfill their promise to her parents. >> i saw where bobby was standing and i took two shots with my camera just to document the scene, the way it was when we saw it, and then i just backed back out of the woods and bobby followed me out and we called 911. >> 911, what's the emergency? >> yes, man, this is robert winter. >> okay, you need police, fire and ambulance there? >> police. >> what's the address, hun? >> there's no address. it's in the woods. we found the body of kate waring. >> you believe you found the body of kate wearing? >> yes, we know we did. >> in the woods? >> yes. >> reporter: but listen to what happens after bobby hangs up. the 911 recording continues. you can hear the operator spreading the word around to other officers, a bit skeptical the four-month long mystery is finally solved. >> hey, sarge, are you ready for this, this guy is adamant he found kate waring in the woods off poly point road. >> off where? >> poly point road in wadmalaw island. >> how is he aware of it? >> he said he knows it was her. >> reporter: the instinctive cops waited. >> we said let's sit back and way for law enforcement to get here. >> reporter: so far, so good. but what happened next was quite a surprise. >> the first officer was a charleston county deputy i said, we'll show you where the remains are, took him out there and said it's your crime scene now and we're backing off. and that's what we did. >> reporter: but that wasn't the end of it, was it? >> no. we were detained, to put it mildly. >> reporter: detained? >> detained. placed in separate police cars. >> reporter: what do you mean, you were arrested? >> very strictly by the legal definition, we were not free to leave, they made that very clear. and we couldn't leave because they seized my car. >> reporter: but wait a minute, you found the body and showed them where it was. >> that's correct. they wanted a statement to us of everything when he done from the very beginning, not just what we had done that day. >> reporter: the whole long story? >> that's basically what they had been asking for. in fact they had been given the story along and along as it occurred. >> reporter: hours later the ex-detectives were finally released but not bill caps' car, didn't get that bag until they filed an injunction. now years later the memory still rankles all of them. 43 years in a police department, to sit in the back of a police car and have some guy question you, get you to take a statement. >> that's right. we were shoved in the back of a car like a criminal and call it like we see them. >> reporter: still, this was it. the news traveled to the house on the battery, the warings fell from their anxiety and into grief. >> mixed emotions. relief that she's been found. but at the same time devastating grief that now you have conclusive evidence that your only daughter is dead, opinion that you're never going to see her again. >> reporter: and then as soon as they were allowed after the crime scene tape came down, after all of the evidence was taken away, the whole team assembled at the spot where kate lay hidden for so long, all except tom waring, who did not want the image burned in his brain, the dismal place the love of his life lay dead. but perhaps it was a mother thing. janice had to be here, she said. shto see had to see it. >> it helped me to see for myself. service so remote, we wouldn't have found her in a million years. and not knowing where she is, it's just -- it would have been horrible. >> reporter: they formed a circle, held hands around the place they knew she had been. >> one of the investigators is a deacon in his church, and he said a prayer. >> and there was beautiful water, marsh and docks and i think it might have given mrs. waring some peace at least thinking they wasn't in a garbage dump somewhere. it was a peaceful place, you know, and god's place. >> reporter: so now the a-team had done its job and kate's killers could finally be brought to justice, or so you would think. but the mystery, the web that was spun on that train down from washington, was far stranger, more bizarre than you have so far heard. and justice, well, we shall see. coming up -- >> they thought they solved the case but would it stick? >> actual evidence, it just wasn't there. >> and the close call that just might have saved kate waring's life. >> i could have hung on one more month, i could have helped them get her. welcome back to "dateline" extra. returning to our story, here again is keith morrison. >> reporter: most everybody around charleston, south carolina, seems to know who the county solicitor is, scarlet is what people called her, solicitor scarlet wilson officially, well known and popular prosecutor. and solicitor wilson had a problem, actually two problems. for one thing, though heather kamp practically leapt at a deal to turn state's evidence against ethan and plead guilty to murder in exchange, her credibility, as you will soon see, was not exactly triple a and despite all of the information the a-team uncovered that could be used in court was thin. >> frankly, we didn't have a lot of evidence. we had a lot of opinions and a lot of conjecture, but actual evidence, it just wasn't there. >> reporter: kate's skeletal remains gave the solicitor none of the forensic evidence the juries like to see. the coroner was unable to establish even a cause of death. as for those personal items of kate's they found in ethan's apartment, those could just as easily have been gifts. the two were supposedly best friends after all. and to top it off, there was the amazing tale that came with the state's star witness, heather. it's true she helped the waring investigators find kate's body and agreed to testify against the man she revealed she actually married soon after the crime, but heather was also, as ethan's lawyer was discovering, a gray day world class liar. >> not only was she drifting, she was a true connarist with the most horrid background of anyone i had ever seen, a true sociopath. >> reporter: he was certain heather kamp on the train to palmetto, one look at kate waring she knew she found her ideal next mark. why was allier so sure? his ruesearch, he said, filled p a victims to fill a poor house. we had 13 names and called all 13. these were men and women all over the country. she would say she's pregnant, she would say her children died of leukemia, that men had beat her. >> her scam, troll the internet for men, latch on to one, move in, fleece him and leave him with a mountain of debt, all the while pretending to be a doctor, heiress or doctor of a mafia-style drug family. >> that was probably the worst whirlwind i have ever been through, seen, done in my entire life. >> reporter: there was chris beard, for example, in pennsylvania. >> just being around her made me feel better because that's what i wanted, you know. i wanted to be loved. >> reporter: he found her on the internet. in less than two months they were engaged and she said she was pregnant. >> at the time that i had met her, i had no credit cards to my name whatsoever. >> reporter: she persuaded him, he said, to get 15 cards, which she maxed out leaving him $33,000 in detd. and oh, by the way, she told chris' sister-in-law, lori that -- >> that she was a pediatric burn specialist and she had worked with children and that was her specialty. >> reporter: and as lori had been having some behavior issues with her daughter, heather gave the girl a blood test. >> to see if, you know, there was anything wrong with her. >> reporter: and -- >> she said, i just want to you know that your daughter is bipolar. >> reporter: but it was odd, how would she know based on a quick blood test whether or not her daughter was bipolar? and why would heather use her own diabetes kit for the test? lori hit the internet just to check out the woman who was playing doctor with her child. >> and found that, you know, she actually was a wanted felon. >> reporter: so she called the cops who arrested heather in the act of spending chris' money but somehow heather slipped off the hook. though lori pressed charges and pushed hard for a prosecution, nobody followed through, and lori eventually gave up. lives with the guilt now. >> i think it was a month or so after i gave it up, that's when she came to d.c. and she had met kate. and i always feel if i could have hung on one more month, i could have helped them get her. >> reporter: now as he prepared to defend ethan, david allier was feeling much better, his client's chief accuser, it appeared, was a practiced con artist. would any jury believe her? ethan might be naive, said allier, but his story after all never changed. >> they had gone out to dinner, he kate and heather. after they went out to dinner, he dropped kate back off at her parent's home here in downtowns charleston and spoke with her a couple of times via text message that night and he didn't talk to her again after that. >> reporter: so it was all on heather and with her as ethan's chief accuser, how could any jury convict him? but just days before the trial was to start, solicitor scarlet wilson finally uncovered something the case lacked, a clear motive. she found it, she said, in a letter kate wrote to a friend just before she disappeared. >> she's talking about how someone has tried to extend her credit limit or has tried to assume her identity and mess with her money in her bank. and she was livid. and i think kate was threatening to get her father involved. and that was a new dimension for heather kamp. i mean -- >> reporter: she didn't need katie as an enemy. >> i have no doubt katie confronted heather kamp with that. >> reporter: and that's when heather kamp and ethan mack decided they had to keep her from talking. kate waring had to die. >> reporter: he began to make the choice to join in the scam to rip off kate waring. >> reporter: finally, the prosecutor scarlet wilson felt ready and almost a year to the day after kate was found, she launched the trial of ethan mack, the sole defendant in the courtroom, heather having taken that plea agreement. the warings tried to prepare themselves though what they saw defied preparation. >> we had to see images and see what it was like when they found her and then go through all of the forensics and we were seeing that for the first time along with the jurors and all of those other spectators in the courtroom. >> reporter: one by one, the a-team took the stand, as did detectives and experts from the charleston police department, to present the evidence. >> over a stupid forgery. >> reporter: prosecutor wilson told the jury that ethan and heather killed kate to avoid getting caught for forging kate's checks and using her credit cards. then heather took the stand and told the jury it was ethan, not her, who lured kate to their tiny apartment, and then smothered her, shocked her with a taser, drowned her in the bathtub and dumped her body out on wadmalaw island because he thought no one would ever find her there. so did you think you convinced that jury? >> i thought that the trial went better than i ever could have hoped. >> reporter: except that is for two things, one, would the jury believe ethan actually killed his best friend kate? and two -- >> heather kamp is a liar. heather kamp is jealous of kate. heather kamp is the one stealing. >> reporter: but heather's testimony did seem to terrify one person, ethan mack himself, and it showed. when he was in the courtroom waiting for the jury too com co back, we have that picture, what was happening with your client? >> at that point, you know, true fear. you know, true freeear. i could really see it. >> reporter: what hold did heather have on this man? did the jury, did anybody have this crime figured out? coming up -- >> please raise your right hand. >> a surprise from the jury and another one from ethan mack's mom. >> he got very confrontational. basically his mother said there's more to this story and you need to tell it right now. his mother wanted him to tell the truth and tell what happened. kayla: our dad was in the hospital. josh: because of smoking. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. kayla: do you know how hard it is to smoke in a hospital? by the time we could, we were like... what are we doing? kayla: it was time for nicodermcq. the nicodermcq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. and doubles your chances of quitting. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how. discover.o. nicodermcq. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover. hi, richard liu with your top stories. speaking to reporters today, president trump said lawmakers must approve wall funding or the shutdown will go on. trump saying democrats -- he's accusing them of hick pom rasy and blaming them for the shutdown. an an 8-year-old boy died from guatemala in u.s. customs board protection. this is the second child to die this month. now back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline" extra. i'm craig melvin. ethan mack awaited a jury verdict. would they find him guilty of murdering his best friend kate waring, or would they set him free? and what about his wife and accuser, heather kamp? the stranger kate met on a train. here again is keith morrison. >> reporter: you just never can tell how a jury will react to the facts of a complicated murder case, or the accusations of a person like heather kamp. ethan mack cooled his heels while his jury tried to decide if he did or did not smother, beat, taser and drown his best friend, a woman he claimed was like a little sister to him. and then after 14 interminable hours, they trooped back into the courtroom and told the judge they could not decide whether or not ethan was guilty of murder. >> all right. what i'm going to do is on the murder charge, i'm going to declare a mistrial on that. >> reporter: mistrial, a hung jury. >> huge letdown. >> right. >> it wasn't going to be over, it wasn't going to end. we were going to possibly have to relive that whole event again. >> reporter: as she packed up her file, solicitor scarlet wilson vowed to find justice somehow. and then quite unexpectedly there was an intervention from a surprising source. it was ethan mack's own church going, no-nonsense mother. she had testified during the trial for her son, of course, gave a huge stand about what she was made of >> korean mack dean. d-e-a-n. >> ethan is a mama's boy, isn't he? >> yes, he is. >> do you know anything about your son having involvement in kate waring's murder? >> no. >> if you did, would you stand here today and support him? >> he know i would turn him in. >> reporter: then as ethan's mother sat through the rest of the trial she heard things, she knew her son, knew when he was hiding something, so she went to see him in jail. ethan's attorney david aylor heard it all. so it did get loud in that cell when they were talking? >> it got very confrontational. basically his mother said there's more to this story, and you need to tell it and you need to tell it right now. his mother wanted him to tell the truth and tell what happened. >> reporter: so it was decided soon after ethan and his mother had their talk, he appeared before the judge and he admitted he did participate in the murder of his good friend kate. he agreed to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter in exchange for a 25-year prison sentence. >> you understand the court still treats this as a guilty plea? >> yes, ma'am. >> and your criminal record will reflect it as a guilty plea? >> yes, ma'am. >> reporter: of course, since heather pleaded guilty to murder and forgery and obstruction of justice, they didn't need a trial for her either. guilty but mentally ill, by the way. at her sent echbsing her therapist told the judge that heather developed after a deeply traumatic childhood a whole basket of serious, psychological disorders, some of which rendered her basically incapable of separating truth from her elaborate fictions, which led into her years of failed marriages, abandoned children and constant drifting. if heather was hoping for a shorter prison term because of all of that, she didn't get it. instead solicitor scarlet wilson noted she continued to lie about important details after she made her deal to testify. and because she broke the deal, the sentence, 39 years, 14 more than ethan. >> this was heather kamp's kill. while certain liejly evenage mas involved and certainly he laid his hands on kate, i do not believe but for heather kamp we would be here. >> reporter: still said andy savage after the fact solicitor wilson could have had a much stronger case if the charleston police acted more aggressively. just one example -- when police arrested ethan and heather -- >> because of their own incompetence, they released the property, the crime scene where the homicide took place, and turned it back over to landlord without examining it. and so the landlord went in and vacated the premises. he took all of their furniture out put it in storage. >> reporter: cleaned the place. >> cleaned the place. it wasn't until over two weeks later they go in there knowing the property had already been tainted, the crime scene was destroyed. >> reporter: no wonder scarlet wilson didn't have all of the ammunition she would have liked, said andy savage, but the charleston police said they didn't see it quite that way. they did take the case of kate waring very serious right from the very beginning and the second guessing from the a-team was rather puzzling, at least according to captain thomas robertson. >> i'm surprised, i really am. i thought we both did a fabulous job, and i think the team and detectives i had working from this agency and support that we had, it was fantastic. >> reporter: what may have looked like inaction, said detective david as borne, was actually a careful and thorough investigation, one that didn't leave out any possibility. was there some point in which you thought this girl -- she's probably dead? she's come to some serious harm? >> early on. >> reporter: early on. how many days after would you say? >> i would say that -- within that first week for sure. >> reporter: yeah. so you knew it was a murder investigation at that stage? >> no. it could have been an overdose. it could have been an accidental death. i think we felt like we were probably dealing with a death investigation. >> reporter: right. but neither tom nor janice waring was the least bit satisfied. hadn't the police suggested early on kate may have simply skipped town on her own? didn't seem to the warings they were trying very hard to find her. what about all of those other families of missing people, they asked? families without the resources to hire an a-team. >> unfortunately, missing people are low on the priority list nationwide. >> i feel like that a missing person or missing child should be just as important as a bank robbery because lots of people never find out what happened to their child. >> reporter: it was late after midnight when she came to the end of her story, ushered there by two people she believed to be good friends of hers. and nobody, not the warings, not the a-team, not the police, has heard the story you're about to hear, the competing stories of the last hours and minutes of kate waring's life. the question is, whose story will you believe, her longtime friend, the uncle of her god son, or the charming drifter, the woman who played with fate on the train? coming up -- heather versus ethan. >> i had a big conscience and he doesn't. he doesn't have a conscience. >> who was really behind kate waring's death? two very different tales. so lionel, what does being able to trade 24/5 mean to you? well, it means i can trade after the market closes. it's true. so all... evening long. ooh, so close. yes, but also all... night through its entirety. come on, all... the time from sunset to sunrise. right. but you can trade... from, from... from darkness to light. ♪ you're not gonna say it are you? returning to "strangers on a train," the trial is over, the killers in jail but it was not the end of the story. in fact, there were two sharply different tales about the last hours and minutes of kate waring's life. you're about to hear the first. once again, keith morrison. >> reporter: they call it the palmetto, a train that rides down the eastern seaboard, eight hours from washington to charleston, fine setting to meet a stranger. >> sat in the same street, laughed, were joking the whole way, started talking. >> reporter: heather kamp, fleshly supplied with jewelry and cash from her last mark, just by chance found herself sitting with a young woman wearing jewelry and perhaps with access to such cash as heather had never seen before. what did you see in her? why did you like her? >> she was funny, very funny. >> reporter: now, sitting here in jail, heather claims she came to see kate not as her next victim but as a friend. when in charleston, she professed her love for kate's body ethan mack and eventually married him, that love was true too, so she says now. when she told them both all of those well practiced lies about being a doctor, about her husband and child being killed in an accident, et cetera, et cetera, those stories, she said, were just part schtick she invented as a con artist. >> that's what i do. that's who i am. that's the way i learned how to survive. >> reporter: remember in court the prosecutor called heather the master mind who conned kate, lied to manipulate ethan, lied about murder. you were the decisionmaker. you were the person who caused kate's death. >> i don't take it as that. >> reporter: stole from her, yes. but kill kate, no. heather kamp will not cop to that. instead, this was the story the drifter had for us. it was all ethan right from the start. my husband wanted to rip her off because she had money. >> reporter: but wait, why would ethan want any harm to come from his good friend kate? >> reporter: the trouble was that ethan never considered her a friend. >> reporter: not a friend of hers at all? >> no. >> reporter: not like a sister? >> no. he was baby sitting her and she became a problem for him. >> reporter: became a real problem, says heather, when kate found out she and ethan were stealing from her. >> she was like i'm going to put you guys in jail and that scared ethan and the whole nightmare began that night because he was not going to go to jail. >> reporter: so you're saying ethan was the mastermind, not you? >> yes, yes. >> reporter: and so after dinner that last night, says heather, they took kate back to their apartment, ethan got her a little high. >> after a couple of drinks, she was in a very good mood. >> reporter: there was a big suitcase on the floor. ethan dared her, says heather, get in. she did. didn't see the taser he was holding. >> he starts tasering her and doesn't stop. by the time he remeevs the taser, she's not moving inside the suitcase at all. he races into the bedroom, grabbing the pillow off the bed, comes back in, pushes me away, unzips the suitcase, takes the pillow, compresses it over her mouth, grabs the wine bottle that is maybe four feet away, takes the wine bottle, crack, crack, i think maybe three times he hits her. he tells me to go inside the bathroom and start the water. >> reporter: she was terrified, she >> i cried but i didn't say anything. i didn't know what to do. i didn't know what to say. when he told me to do something, i did it. >> she filled the tub, she says. >> he asked me to help pull her in there. i tried, but i can't do it. i start crying, and i throw up in the toilet. >> why didn't you pull her out of the water? >> at that point, i -- the only thing i was thinking about was how am i going to make it out of this house. >> did you think ethan would kill you, too? >> why not? who else knows but me? why not? why wouldn't i be next? >> she helped him put kate's body in the car. watched him dump her out on the island. of course she lied, she admits, when she told ethan she was pregnant. but that was just for the sake of her own safety, says heather. >> i thought, if i'm carrying
detectives who the killer was, but maybe she didn't have to. >> the fact that cassidy was spared, would that mean anything to a jury? >> the person that killed the mother cared about cassidy. >> "silent witness." hello and welcome to "dateline extra." i'm craig melvin. michelle young had a smile that would light up a room, she's the last person anyone who knew her would expect to be murdered, but it happened. she was at home with her toddler, cassidy, pregnant with her second child with tragedy struck. the investigation quickly revealed a troubled marriage, but her husband was away on business and unraveling this complicated case would take years. here's keith morrison. >> i think i paused for a second and had to take a deep breath. and just the reality of what was going on would sink in. >> those who saw the footprints will not forget them. they were tiny and they were bloody. >> i had to get my composure to finish searching this house to make sure there was nobody else in the house. >> it was the 3rd of november, 2006. early afternoon. scott earp was the wake county sheriff's deputy dispatched to a quiet and leafy neighborhood called enchanted oaks. the outskirts of raleigh, north carolina. here for the 911 call from this place on birchleaf drive. >> i think my sister is dead. >> tell me what happened, ma'am. >> i have no idea. >> the caller was meredith fisher. she had just discovered on the floor of the master bedroom the savagely beaten body of her elder sister, 29-year-old michelle young, a woman who in death was about to be famous. >> listen to me, ma'am. i'll tell you what you have to do. you need to calm down so we can help you. you said there's blood everywhere? >> listen to me, ma'am. >> i'm listening. >> is she breathing? >> i don't think so. >> did you check? >> michelle? she's cold. >> as she spoke, meredith i was cradling her 2 1/2-year-old niece, cassidy, who crawled out from under the bed clothes on her parents' bed. feet from where her mother lay. cassidy's voice chattering to her aunt was caught on the recorded call. had cassidy witnessed the murder, awakened alone to find this? >> you just picture a small child walking around in this blood and tracking it across the hallway over into the bathroom. >> by now, wake county investigators were descending on the house. having secured the crime scene, earp's job was done. but on his way out he saw cassidy again. she was still in her pink pajamas, still in meredith's arms. he asked meredith a question. >> i looked over at the child. i asked her did you clean the child? her response was no. i thought it was kind of odd because i was expecting her to say yes, i guess. >> somebody did. >> yeah, somebody did. >> but who? the same person who murdered the little girl's mother? on this november day, all they had were questions. richard spivey, then a sergeant with the wake county sheriff's office probably knows the ka s better than anyone. >> i mean, this was just a brutal, vicious beating. there was a lot of time and energy invested into this assault. >> why do you say a lot of time and energy? >> the medical examiner told us there were over 30 blows with some sort of blunt object. >> so detectives started investigating the victim and everyone else around her. michelle young was born and raised on long island, new york. >> she was smiling all the time. and she was the life of the party. >> stacia grossman knew her from childhood. >> she didn't like being the center of attention, but liked creating a great atmosphere to have a great time. >> michelle was a cheerleader in high school and a straight "a" student. jennifer powers felt drawn to her. >> she had this kind of bookworm side to her. she was very studious and goal-oriented. i mean, she was also just a great person to be around, a fun, happy spirit. and, you know, someone i wanted to spend a lot of time with. >> lots of people did. and when she chose a college far from home, north carolina state, she was soon surrounded again by an admiring group of women friends, best friends, buddies. fiona childs was her sorority big sister. >> there is this one picture. it's, like, it just came out beautiful and we liked it because we thought he kind of looked like charlie's angels posed without intentionally doing that. >> it was sometime in 2001 when friends started hearing about michelle's new guy. a fellow student named jason young. how he had grown up in the north carolina mountains, how he loved to camp, how he was the life of tailgate parties. michelle fell hard and fast. >> they seemed like a good couple. he was different from other men she had dated in the past. he wasn't as serious about a career as she was. he was a little bit less sophisticated than michelle was. but she seemed to be very happy with him. >> michelle and jason married in october 2003. the day after the wedding, they shared their big secret. michelle was pregnant. their daughter, cassidy, was born early the next year. >> i love you, mommy. >> i love you too, cassidy. ♪ twinkle, twinkle >> and when she came along, it was love at first sight. ♪ how i wonder what you are >> yeah! >> michelle was an enthusiastic mother. >> huh? >> huh? >> huh? >> huh? >> by all accounts, jason was a good dad. >> he was a great playmate. he knew how to sit on the floor and play with his daughter, you know? >> the youngs moved into the big fine house on birchleaf in 2005. both of them worked. he a salesman. she a financial specialist. in the summer of 2006, michelle got pregnant again. they kept the news to themselves, but it was clear something good was happening. >> the comment he said to me was he's excited to have another baby. not implying she was pregnant. but he was excited at the prospect of it. >> but just a few months later, michelle was dead. jason was 170 miles away in virginia on a business trip the night of the murder. he heard the news the next afternoon and returned to raleigh. stacia grossman got word from her mother. >> my mother called and said "michelle is dead." i said, "michelle who? some celebrity? like, what are you talking about? what do you mean, how is that possible? what happened?" >> the very question that wake county investigators are asking themselves. >> a security camera provides a critical clue. it's not what it caught. it's what it missed and why. coming up -- >> it was a camera there that had been unplugged. >> really? >> yes. it was one of the side exits of the hotel. >> who had something to hide? when "silent witness" continues. . hard work baby, it gonna pay off. welcome back. what was once a quiet home in the suburbs of raleigh, north carolina, was now a horrifying crime scene bustling with activity. four months pregnant, michelle young had been murdered. and investigators were eager to talk to her husband, jason, but would jason talk to them? here's keith morrison. >> the facts were stark and ugly. one night in november, 2006, while her husband was away on business, michelle young was attacked in her bedroom and brutally beaten to death. her body discovered the next day by her sister, meredith, along with her 2 1/2-year-old daughter cassidy, who had been left to wander in her blood. for the investigators who set out to find her killer, no way to get those little footprints out of their minds. sergeant richard spivey, lead investigator. >> those of us that work in law enforcement, this is our profession, but we're also parents. that certainly strikes a different note with you when you see something like that. >> michelle's husband jason, a medical software salesman, was 170 miles away the night of the murder. even so, investigators had to look at him. >> we know he was the last person to talk to michelle that night. and he was also the reason why she was found. he called meredith fisher to go to the house. >> jason young's business trip that night was routine. security tape showed him getting gas, 7:30 p.m. as he left raleigh. two hours later seen on tape at a cracker barrel restaurant in greensboro. later checked into the hampton inn in hillsdale, virginia. and him again at midnight. he also made a phone call around midnight. and that was the last time anybody heard from jason young until he made another call at 7:40 the next morning. >> a normal person would look at this and say he was 170 miles away. he's got an alibi. >> that sounds like a great distance, you know? but 170 miles you can get between the crime scene and the hotel in about 2 1/2 hours. >> perhaps, but there were curious anomalies at the crime scene. couldn't explain them. a jewelry box was missing two drawers. so was it a bungled burglary? then there were footprints near the body that seemed to eliminate jason. an obvious print on the pillow was a size 10. but jason wore a size 12. but this was weird. there was another partial footprint. it defied easy identification, so they began calling in shoe experts. and now they wondered were there two attackers? of course, investigators discovered early on michelle and jason's marriage was strained. and in the last weeks of michelle's life, things were not good. >> at our friend shelley's wedding he was so drunk. just really out of it. when we got to the wedding, our friends were letting us know michelle and jason were fighting and they were referring to it as world war iii. >> jennifer powers told investigators about another fight that october. michelle wanted her mother to stay with them for the holidays. and jason, who had a tense and jason, who had a tense relationship with his mother-in-law, wanted to limit her stay. and said so in an e-mail. along with another nugget. >> he wrote, our marriage has seen better days and i don't see it trending up. i remember that really striking a chord with me. i didn't know that their marriage had seen better days. >> of course, investigators wanted to interview jason young. maybe he could tell them something. but he refused to talk to them. >> he talked to the lawyer. and then under the advice of counsel, he declined to speak with us at all. >> didn't ask about it? >> didn't ask how his wife died? >> no. >> perhaps, investigators thought, that business trip deserved a second look. so they went to the hotel. poked around. and discovered some odd activities that night in a stairwell near an exit. >> there was a camera there unplugged. >> really? >> yes, one of the side exits for the hotel. one of the fire stairs that go down to the first floor. >> was there any other tampering done? >> well, the door that was adjacent to where this camera's located, that door also had been propped open that night. >> how do you know that? >> the gentleman working as the clerk that night found a rock placed in the door to keep the door from closing. >> well, then they plugged the camera back in, so it's now working again. and at about 6:35 that morning suddenly that camera is pointing straight at the ceiling. >> same camera? >> same camera. tampered with yet again. >> if that was jason young's work, is it possible he did make the 340-mile round trip? could he have killed his wife and cleaned up his daughter all in 7 1/2 hours without ever being seen? to find out, investigators played a hunch. they visited every gas station along the route. showed jason's photo. talked to the night clerks. and came across a woman named tracy doms in a tiny place called king, north carolina. she took one look at the photograph and recognized it instantly. he was the foul-mouthed customer she said who came storming into the store to complain the pumps were locked. and what time was it? 5:30 a.m., morning of the murder. >> there was actually an altercation between the two of them. so you have a reason why she would remember him as opposed to any other customer that may have just happened into the store. >> is if that attendant was right, investigators may have undercut jason's alibi. still, it wasn't enough. so they plodded ahead, painstaking work, took time. and then, years after the murder, they finally got a match for that partial footprint. >> the state bureau of investigation and the fbi were able to eventually identify that shoe as a hush puppy shoe, size 12, which was the same size that he wore. >> throughout the investigation, jason steadfastly maintained his silence. rather than face a legal battle where he'd be asked some tough questions, spivey said, he even gave michelle's family custody of his daughter. >> everyone that we spoke with, all of them talked about how much he loved cassidy and what a great dad he was. to just turn over primary custody, that was -- that was very surprising. >> investigators had heard enough. they believed they had a case. circumstantial, but a case. and three years after michelle young's body was found on the bedroom floor, jason young was charged with her murder. investigators and prosecutors knew that very little pointed directly toward jason young, but so far nothing pointed away. coming up, the case against jason young as an alleged killer and as a cheating husband. >> we basically just hung out at the house and we had aintimate relationship for the two days that he was there. >> cassidy was put down to bed and a couple drinks, just were talking. we ended up having sex. >> he never settled down. >> when "silent witness" continues. ent witness" continues. here is another laundry hack from home made simple. do you want ready to wear clothing without all the hassle? you can, with bounce dryer sheets. simply toss two sheets in the dryer to iron less. we dried one shirt without bounce, and an identical shirt using bounce. the bounce shirt has fewer wrinkles, less static, and more softness and freshness. for extra large or wrinkly loads, toss in three sheets. dermatologist tested bounce free and gentle is free of dyes and perfumes. bounce out wrinkles, bounce out static. welcome back to "kadateline extra." jason young was charged with murdering his wife, michelle. from the day her body was found in the couple's bedroom, jason refused to talk to detectives but there were several women in jason's life who were willing to share intimate details about the man and his marriage. with the case heading to court, they would soon tell their stories on the stand. here, again, is keith morrison. >> jason young went on trial for the murder of his pregnant wife, michelle, in june 2011. by then, he had spent 18 months in a jail cell. the guy who lived for tailgates. the guy who loved to party, that guy was long gone. becky holt was the prosecutor who opened for the state. >> defendant had a plan. his plan was to murder his wife. his plan was to get away with it. >> with no murder weapon found, the prosecution's case was built on that partial shoe print. they knew now that jason once owned a pair of hushpuppies like these that matched the print. they were now missing. they also told jurors about the early morning visit to the gas station and the suspicious activity at the hotel, but the thrust of their case was this. jason young was trying in the most violent possible way to get out of a troubled marriage. >> were you aware of tensions in that marriage? >> yes. i was well aware. >> meredith fisher, michelle's sister, lived near the couple. and for a period was cassidy's nanny. as the young's fights intensified, she took on the role of a marriage counselor, too. >> what would you say were the main issues? >> michelle's main issues were jason being more responsible, understanding her more, and his main concern was their lack of sex life. >> prosecutors called friends to the stand to paint a picture of a marriage that was unraveling out loud and in public. >> jason made it very well known that, you know, he was upset about the lack of sex in the relationship. >> and at parties, said fiona child, jason's x-rated tricks were famously over the top. >> i never observed it myself. i would just hear about it. and you know, he would expose himself and do what he thought was these funny tricks. and i was always just rather embarrassed for michelle. >> he never settled down. it was as if he was still living the single life, that he never bought into the marriage. what that -- what all that meant. >> in october 2006 was michelle was 4 months pregnant, jason became deeply involved with another woman. and not just any woman. she was one of michelle young's close friends from college. one of those charlie's angels. in early october, days before his third wedding anniversary, jason flew to florida to see michelle monie who testified they both knew it was wrong. >> we basically just hung out at the house and we had an intimate relationship for the two days that he was there. >> jason was crazy about her. his. frie friend, josh dalton, said. >> he basically told me that he thought was in love with her. >> michelle's mother, linda fisher, testified in the final weeks of her life. she could see the toll the failing marriage was taking on her pregnant daughter. >> she had her head on my lap. and she was lying down. and i was stroking her hair. and she was empty. >> and what did she tell you? >> things weren't working out with jason. >> two days before she was murdered, michelle phoned her sister, meredith, to report yet another blowup with jason. >> she was just, "i've had it." she said, "you know, more than one time, i just can't do this anymore." >> jason was telling one of his close friends the same thing. and prosecutors said just days before michelle was murdered, he had indulged in one last transgression. a casual hook-up with an old friend named carol ann sauerby in his own living room. michelle was away at the time. >> cassidy was put down to bed. and i had a couple drinks. just were talking. and we ended up having sex. >> but divorce was apparently not an option for jason. >> he had made a statement at one time he was afraid if he ever got a divorce that michelle would take cassidy and move back to new york. >> and did he indicate he would have concerns about seeing cassidy again? >> correct. >> still, one big question remained. was a good-time guy like jason young even capable of murder? genevieve cargo was engaged to jason in 1999 before he met michelle. she took the stand to testify about a fight over jason's excessive drinking. >> he became agitated and said something to the effect if i am going to make such a terrible husband, then give me my ring back. >> did you give it to the defendant? >> no. he began trying to pull the ring off. it wouldn't come off. he was throwing me from one bed to the other and jumping on me with all his weight and pinning my arms, both of them, behind me. >> prosecutors hoped to convince the jury it all added up to a motive for murder, so how would the defense counterattack? with a witness who could refute every charge. coming up, jason young finally breaks his silence as he takes the stand to testify. >> did you kill your wife, michelle? >> no, sir. >> were you there when it happened? >> no, sir. >> when "silent witness" continues. t witness" continues. cvs pharmacy. ed gets copays as low as zero dollars on medicare part d prescriptions. ed gets labels clear as day. and, lily.... lily gets anything she wants. ed knows he could just have us deliver his prescriptions. but what's the fun in that? switch to cvs pharmacy. i'm richard liu with the hour's top stories. the brother of an american citizen arrested in russia is speaking out insisting his brother is innocent. paul whelan was arrested friday in moscow for allegedly spying but his brother says he was there for a wedding. the u.s. state department says it's pushing for access to whelan now. far awi from home a nasa space object threw past an item -- farther than any other a nasa spacecraft has done before. for now, back to "silent witness." welcome back to "dateline extra." i'm craig melvin. prosecutors in the jason young murder trial painted a picture of a marriage in pieces. but did a string of affairs mean the husband killed his pregnant wife? it was a question the defense was eager to answer. after five years, jason young was about to break his silence and explain what happened the night michelle was killed. here, again, is keith morrison. >> what the prosecution didn't tell you -- >> there's an art to the business of criminal defense. and it would take a true artist to repaint the prosecution's dark portrait of jason young. so what could the defense attorney, mike clinkson, do? well, to begin with, he told the jury, he agreed with the prosecution. jason young was not a good husband. >> he acted at times like an immature jerk. but that does not make him a killer. >> the defense was not about to make any more concessions, mind you. >> the jewelry box in the bedroom, there was dna on it, didn't match either michelle or jason. the suspicious activason young's. and there wasn't any forensic evidence that tied jason to the crime scene. there was no blood in his car. there was not a scratch on him. >> ladies and gentlemen, jason lynn young did not murder his wife. he did not murder their unborn son. and this case has not been solved. >> who better to make that argument than jason young, himself? but so far, remember, he'd never said a word to anyone about that november night. and almost five years' silence. >> it's always a big decision for defense attorneys whether or not to call their clients. >> breaeth karas is a former prosecutor and legal analyst. she covered the trial. >> this is a case that really begged for jason young to testify. if he was innocent. >> after all this time. >> if he is truly innocent, get on the stand and tell the story. >> we call jason young. >> with his mother sitting in the front row, jason young prepared to do just that. the defense attorney hit it hard off the top. >> did you kill your wife, michelle? >> no, sir. >> were you there when it happened? >> no, sir. >> what about jason's missing hushpuppies that matched the partial shoe print? he no longer had them, he said. >> are those the shoes you had on november 2nd? >> no, sir. >> they were all rattie, he said, told michelle to give them to good will. as for the night of the murder, after she checked into the hotel, he left his room twice. the first time to get a power cord for his laptop. >> i was going over the sales call i had the next day. >> the second trip, he testified, was to smoke a cigar. >> i had to go outside to smoke a cigar. i also wanted to look at sports schedules and some standings and so i wanted to see if i could pick up the "usa today" as well. >> that newspaper run explained why he was seen at the front desk, he said, around midnight. >> so between the time you smoked the cigar and went back upstairs and went to sleep, did you leave that room until the next morning? >> no, sir. >> next morning after his sales call, jason testified he realized he left some ebay printouts sitting on the computer printer at home. they showed purses thinking of buying one for michelle as a belated anniversary present. >> i realize i didn't bring the papers. >> why was it important to you somebody get the papers? >> because i wanted it to be a surprise. a surprise to michelle means so much more than -- >> around noon, november 3rd, he called his sister-in-law, meredith, from the car to ask if she'd go to the house and get those ebay papers. >> friday, november 3rd. >> he left meredith a voicemail. >> do me a huge favor and go over there, see if you can find something on the computer. >> then he headed to his mother's place in the mountains nearby and it was there, he testified, hours later that he learned michelle had been murdered. >> i just fell. i just -- i just broke on the inside. i just broke and i didn't believe it. >> family members drove him back to raleigh. during the drive, he said his friends called. >> ryan and josh had said that the investigators were asking really ugly questions and pointing their finger at me and doing things like that. they said you don't need to talk to anybody. you need to get a lawyer before you talk to anybody. >> and then the explanation for his long silence. >> the lawyer that i got after talking with him, he actually advised me to not go talk to the police. >> did you take that advice? >> yes. i did. >> did he also tell you not to talk to anybody about it? >> that's exactly what he said. he said don't talk to anybody about anything. >> the defense also addressed the motives prosecutors had laid out that jason wanted to escape a bad marriage and keep custody of cassidy and spend time with his new love. >> did you have any designs in your own mind of leaving michelle young for michelle monie? >> no, sir. >> describe why not. >> i think we both knew it was wrong. i don't think we either one dreamed that it would ever be found out. >> pushing me around. >>? as for that violent episode with his ex-fiancee, jason had an explanation nr it. >> did you throw her around on the bed like she said? >> no, sir. what i did was wrong. i did pin her down and i took the ring. >> okay. what was your level of intoxication at that time? >> i was very intoxicated. but i don't feel like that is an excuse for what i did. >> they questioned him about the most important woman in his life. >> did you want to stay married to michelle? >> yes, i did. i wanted to have -- have another baby and i wanted the family to grow. >> he also explained why he gave up custody of his daughter without a fight. >> were you able to afford a lawyer for a full-blown custody battle? >> no, sir, i had -- due to the media and some of the internet website, the job that i had, i lost it. >> his testimony lasted three hours. >> jason young was a very good witness. he understood what he had to do when he was on the stand. >> so he didn't come off as contrived or phony? like he had put this together very carefully in order to account for all of the evidence that they had? >> he had access to police reports. all of the discovery. he knew the state's vulnerabilities. and so he could arguably tailor his testimony to fit with an innocent explanation. >> how did jason young do? 12 jurors were about to decide. but first, the prosecutor gets her chance to go one-on-one with jason young. coming up -- >> working on your marriage, you were having sex with caroline sauerby in your home. in your hoe welcome back to "dateline extra." so far, jason young's testimony seemed to be answering years of questions. when asked by his attorney, jason admitted cheating on his pregnant wife, michelle, more than once. even so, the defense pointed out infidelity did not make him a murderer. now it was the prosecution's turn to cross examine the witness and they start by attacking jason's alibi. but with no forensic evidence tieing him to the crime scene, could they convince the jury that jason was the killer? continuing with our story, here's keith morrison. >> it was riveting. almost five years of silence about his wife's murder broken here in this courtroom. >> i loved cassidy. and i loved michelle. >> and then he went to murder his wife. >> now prosecutor, becky holk, began pulling apart a story she had just heard for the first time. >> were you working on your marriage when you were having sex with caroline sauerby in your home less than two weeks before your wife was murdered? >> no, ma'am, that was not the way to work on a marriage. that was detrimental. >> were you working on your marriage when you called michelle monie? >> michelle and i confided a lot in each other. we talked about my issues with my wife. she talked about her issues with her husband. >> so is the answer yes when you had an affair with michelle miney that you were working on your marriage? >> no, ma'am. having sexual intercourse and having intimacy was very detrimental to that. >> the cross-examination lasted a full hour. and the next day the case went to the jury. >> retire to the jury deliberation room. >> it soon became clear jurors were having trouble. >> indicated that y'all have not yet reached a unanimous decision. >> the jurors were split 6-6. the judge sent them back to try to make it unanimous. >> everybody else remain, the jurors leave for a second. >> hours later, they were back, and courtroom 3c was still. >> it appears that they are hopelessly deadlocked at this point. >> eight jurors had voted for acquittal. four voted guilty. judge stevens declared a mistrial. was serious consideration given to dropping the case? >> i think there was serious consideration as to is there more we can do? >> so the prosecutors decided they would try again. but this time with the one thing they didn't have the first time. jason's own story. the second trial began in february 2012. this time howard cummings led the prosecution, hoping to use jason's own words to convict him. >> put your left hand on the bible, raise your right hand. >> but first, prosecutors called that night clerk at the gas station, gracie, who remembered jason complaining about the locked pumps. >> when he came in to pay, he started cussing and raising cane. >> and what time did this happen? >> that was 5:00, 5:30 in the morning. >> the time when jason said he was at the hotel. >> call your next witness. >> then prosecutors had new witnesses and new testimony. they wanted jurors to hear about cassidy whose bloody footprints, they contended, made her a silent witness to murder. >> when i got to cassidy, i said what are you doing? >> daycare worker ashley pomentier took the stand. >> i noticed what she was doing. >> she told jurors she watched cassidy playing alone, days after her mother was murdered. >> she had the chair and the doll in her hand together then the mommy doll in the other hand and she just hit them. >> as unsettling as it was, the prosecutors wanted jurors to know the killer had left a silent witness behind. a witness he would never harm. the fact that cassidy was spared, did that mean anything to you or would that mean anything to a jury? >> certainly it meant the person who killed the mother we felt cared about cassidy. >> i do. >> thank you. >> fiona childs took the stand. prosecutors pressed her about a life insurance policy jason arranged. >> it did raise a red flag. >> and michelle had questioned. >> that she brought up specifically her life insurance. she brought it up several times, asking me didn't i think that a million dollars was too much and did they really need that? >> after michelle died, fiona found out the true amount in the policy was actually $4 million. >> i was just, like, in total shock. that is incredibly excessive. >> prosecutors also told the jury about civil lawsuits against jason brought by michelle's mother and sister. one was a wrongful death case filed in 2008, a year before he was charged with murder. over the defense's objection, court clerk laura freeman testified about that lawsuit. >> there is an alleged paragraph, paragraph 6, again reading verbatim from the record, in the early morning hours of november 3, 2006, jason young brutally murdered michelle young at their residence. >> freeman went on to testify that jason never responded to the allegations. and that led to a default judgment against him. that judgment said jason killed his wife. >> a default judgment does not mean the facts alleged in the civil complaint are true. it does not mean he's guilty. and the judge at the criminal trial told the jury that in his instructions. however, when you hear the statement, jason young brutally murdered his wife, but that doesn't mean he's guilty, folks. hello? you know? >> and the prosecutor made sure the jury heard just who signed that ruling. >> i'm reading from this judgment which is signed actually by judge stevens. >> judge stevens. the very judge sitting before them in this trial. >> the jury hearing that, it is just something that is going to carry a lot of weight. >> this is the complaint that was filed in december seeking custody of cassidy. >> prosecutors also called the attorney involved in that custody case over daughter, cassidy, and those same allegations were repeated yet again. >> the jury heard several times through these two civil complaints that jason young brutally murdered michelle fisher young. >> but the headline act came when prosecutors played jason young's entire testimony from the first trial. >> i wanted her to have that. >> and began to rip it apart. >> i don't remember. >> prosecutors tried to show that jason's call to meredith to pick up those ebay printouts was merely a ploy to get her to discover the body and find cassidy. why else would you print an ebay auction ad they called sergeant spivey to the stand. >> that auction would end, 8:00 p.m. eastern standard time. >> what day was that? >> that was on november 2nd, 2006. >> reporter: just hours before the murder. now prosecutors tried to prove jason lied about his reasons for leaving the hotel room. >> i didn't pull the door. >> reporter: in his original testimony, he told the court he left the first time to get a power cord for his laptop. >> why did you want to look at the laptop? >> i was going over the sales call the next day. >> special agent mike smith took the stand to say that young didn't use his laptop for work that night. >> this is an internet site dedicated to sports. >> reporter: jason said he went out a second time to smoke a cigar. but prosecutors contended jason was a fierce anti-smoker and the weather that night was freezing, windy. >> can you tell me whether or not there was any substantial outerwear that the defendant either had in his luggage or that he was wearing? >> no, sir, a suit jacket. that was the only outerwear that i am aware of. >> reporter: jason chose not to testify this time. the defense fought back of course. they argued the gas station attendant's memory couldn't beep trusted because of a childhood brain injury. >> i have had memory problems since '06 because i've been through a lot with myself and my kids and my ex-husband. >> reporter: the defense also argued the case really wasn't solved. that there was no physical evidence to prove jason was the killer. >> there wasn't one scratch on mr. young. >> reporter: he never would have had time to make the trip and commit murder, that he didn't have the mind-set of a killer. and that cigar, it showed that jason young owned a humidor and once made a purchase at a cigar store. >> you have ample evidence before you that jason young is not guilty. >> reporter: and then it was over again. and time for another jury to consider whether jason young would go to jail or walk out of court a free man. coming up, the verdict take two. >> we, the jury, by unanimous verdict find the defendant, jason lynn young, to be -- hey, who are you? 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[crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪ are welcome back. for the second time in less than a year, jurors were about to debate on accused killeder jason young. in the first trial, the jury was unable to reach a verdict. this time, prosecutors had replayed his testimony and called multiple witnesses to attack his credibility. did the jury believe them? turns out this case was far from over. here with the conclusion of our story is keith morrison. for more than five years, michelle young's family and friends had been waiting for answers. who killed their pretty pregnant michelle? many thought they knew. >> it was him. you know, i didn't know all the evidence. i didn't know half the things i know now. but i felt that way. >> one jury failed to decide. and now attorneys were making their final arguments to a second jury. >> be mad at him. hate him if you want to. but when you look at the physical evidence in this case, it does not match up. it does not match up to jason having killed his wife and unborn son. >> 30 blows? that's not from a stranger. that is a mad, mad domestic abuser. >> reporter: soon that jury was behind closed doors in the wake county superior court. after two days, they were back with a verdict. >> the jury by unanimous verdict find jason lynn young to be guilty of first-degree murder. >> reporter: guilty. first-degree murder. jason young didn't flinch. behind him his mother was equally stoic. on the other side of the court, michelle young's bereaved mother and sister wept. fiona at home got the news from a friend. they said, "he's guilty." i was like, "what? what?" >> reporter: jason young received a life sentence. chose not to address the court. even as the bailiffs led him away, he remained expressionless. the prosecutors were, they told us, relieved. >> i was very emotional. i have family members there who i have been working with for five, five and a half years. and they finally had justice, you know? >> we have been telling them for years, just trust. just that it will be the right result. >> reporter: but was it? a year and a half ticked by. and then this. >> attorneys for jason young demanding a new trial saying the trial that led to his conviction had significant errors. >> reporter: december 2013. jason young's new attorneys launched his appeal. >> who is the killer? is jason young the person responsible for ms. young's death? it seems fundamentally unfair. >> reporter: what was fundamentally unfair? remember during the trial, the attorney pointed out, the prosecution introduced testimony about those civil cases against jason brought by michelle's family. they accused jason of murder. >> jason young brutally murdered michelle young. >> the defendant brutally murdered michelle marie fisher young. >> way out of bounds, said the attorney. the jury should not have been allowed to hear about any of that. outside the court, michelle's sister meredith predicted the appeal would be thrown out. >> the jury came to the right verdict. we are confident it will stay. >> but she was wrong. >> a raleigh man is getting a third trial in the death of his pregnant women. >> reporter: in april, 2014, the judges ruled unanimously that testimony about the civil cases prejudiced the jury. and in 2017, yet another attempt by jason young to get a third trial, this on grounds his defense team was ineffective, was also denied. >> i love you, mom. >> i love you too, cassidy. >> the children no little care about motions and appeals. cassidy has grown. her father, her mother, snatches of memory ever farther away. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline" extra. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. i said, did you ever contemplate committing the perfect murder? and he said yes. the key element to that is making sure that someone is caught. once they have somebody, they'll stop looking, and that's how you can get away. a cold blooded killing. a victim worth millions. and all kind of conflicting clues. >> i never had a case this complicated before. >> police following multiple
tax returns through a legislative action is moronic. popularity has decreased in many ways with some of the groups that did back him in 2016. >> so you see the lines are so perhaps what he should be drawn there and hans nichols is focusing on is that there may be at the white house. voters that did not care about hans, the president's taxes have this before who now find dominated the sunday shows as you know. themselves concerned and wanting what is the strategy of keeping to know more about what the president's finances could tell the democratic tax returns out us about how his business of democrats' hands? >> it's unclear if the administration is fighting on dealings, his debts, could be influencing the policy ideas he principle or for the president's privacy. but it is clear, made abundantly is supporting. >> joyce, the former attorney clear, they're not prepared to general eric holder was weighing budge on this. you heard mick mulvaney say this in on this. should never be taking place and two questions. what is he hiding in exactly they're making this argument what basis is the trump it's been asked and answered administration going to lawfully throughout the election side. there you might have seen me not disclose the tax returns in response to a congressional chuckle over mitt romney saying moronic, one of the president's request? you know taxes. critics when he was running for you know tax laws i guess a president, almost giving little bit. political advice to democrats what could somebody actually how best to attack this hide in there that could be so damning that they don't want to president. not going quite that far but it put it out there? seems as though he's advising >> there are all sorts of things that can be hidden in someone's them. and then the president's lawyers taxes and when prosecutors are saying if need be, they will go beginning a case that involves to court. >> this idea you're using a public corruption or fraud hearing, ways and means hearing obtaining taxes is almost always about irs enforcement as a way the first step. to get to the president's so over the years if you those tax returns can form a private individual and business wanted to court black voters, real roadmap for understanding tax returns makes no sense both there were a few stops that where crimes were committed or constitutionally and stat forly. seemed necessary, churches onxd look, this i think will be f. also just where people have sunday, soul food restaurants in engaged in conduct that they're necessary, we're not at that point yet, if it has to be harlem or any soul food not proud of. it's clear that the president restaurant. has something that he's invested litigated, it will be litigated. and now add a small studio in in hiding here. >> it seems this issue has tribeca, home to one of the most he kept saying he would release gotten bigger than the popular shows in the country,000 president's tax returns. them in the campaign. the breakfast club." i think not expecting to ever democrats are using it as a get to the next stage and win. if you're a newéñ yorker or approximately for the entire suddenly he found himself in the hip-hop fan, youq know the show white house and it was only at congressional oversight. but now it's gaining popularity that point where he said, nope, and republicans are saying this is democrats overstepping and in the world of politics. you can't see my taxes. >> eugene, you know, mitt romney trying to overturn the results we had a chance to sitxd down wh of the 2016 election. was saying earlier that this the crew. 1. >> for democratic presidential whole fight is moronic in his regardless of what happens during the president's tax hopefuls -- words. many people are saying that this >> how are you doing? is a little bit of political returns, sounds like both sides >> -- there's the wyiowa caucus likes this fight and they're digging in. >> we didn't hear them talk that gamesmanship. what's a danger hoar for the much about the president being under an audit anymore. new hampshire primary and nowfá the narrative seems to be changing. democrats as they push for this? >> finding themselves perhaps the charlamagne caucus. more criticism from the right >> yeah, they're doing this on and therefore not able to get eight years ago the breakfast club radio show started in new york with a focus on hip-hop in what it is they want from the principle, saying the it has president. been litigated during the the blackt( community. because people will think that >> how are we going to have free they are operating from a motive election. i will say the president goes that is impure and mainly tuition? >> now host charlemagne tha god back to the audit because that's partisan opposed to actually having the best interest of the have more than a risk for a ca when he tends to say when he was american people at hand. i think the challenge, the down there mentioned that he was on audit again, part of his standard defense. bigger challenge that mitt >> since 2011 they've been to come on your show? romney will have himself facing >> i don't think it's a risk. is while he's criticizing the asking for his tax returns. no more a risk than sitting on democrats' approach he's not nbc's hans nichols. offered an alternative that will thank you. any other outlet to ask you we're three months away from actually give him what he says the fourth of july but there are about something you have going on. >> if you're being fake, he wants which is also the plenty of fireworks this week in d.c. or perhaps it's political absolutely positively it's a president's tax returns. >> okay. theater or grandstanding. risk. it will be a long fight. on tuesday the attorney general >> reporter: the audience 77% joyce vance, michelle goldberg, william bar testifies before african-american or hispanic. congress to discuss the justice a key demographic making up department's budget. nearly a third of the democratic but house democrats will likely use that opportunity to instead electorate. voters hillary clinton reached grill barr on the findings of out to in 2016. o'rourke what. the mueller report and its and what matters most? >> hot sauce in the bags? >> hot sauce. redactions. joining me is white house >> people will say she's beating president trump. pandering to black people. >> is it working? they'll make promises to do both. >> tell me about the hot sauce both beyond what people expect. moment. >> i thought it was an authentic moment. competent and msnbc contributor i said this is a time to say that she're pandering to black and writer at the atlantic. people. she was like, well, is it welcome to you all. glen kirisher in, say you're in congress and this is a budgetary working? that was an honest answer. thing, what's the first thing >> reporter: when candidates try you're going to ask this to speak to a black and brown attorney general when he appears audience, what are they getting there? >> it's got to be when can we wrong? see the unredacts report? >> not having an agenda. hitting with us the same rising so i think we have a couple of tide lifts autoboats rhetoric. things at play. >> you want an agenda? first of all, kendis, there's no >> absolutely. black people's vote boat is bro. doubt they will ask bill barr perhaps more about the report it's not going to rise. and future department of justice. we'll drowned. there's been a lot of talk >> people don't have real whether chairman nadler was solutions. >> reporter: a lesson candidates right to pursue subpoenaing the like castro are taking to heart. report. i actually think there's one >> were you ever nervous about important reason that he is right, and that it was wise to coming on this show? is it a risk for you subpoena the report. politically? >> not really but you have to be if barr was going to say you on top of your game, right? know what, i'll give you a copy it is not just the usual on my own without a subpoena, political questions to ask. barr would have been free to >> we have a special guest in the building. redact away. >> reporter: do you interview it could have been a redaction kamala the same way as kanye? jam borery before he voluntarily >> i ask rappers about climate provided a copy of the report to change and asked webi about chairman adler and his obamacare. he said he don't think anybody committee. however, once a subpoena has care. hip hop is a wide genre and just been issued for that report, i think there's going to be a much like why wouldn't you come here in. >> reporter: should they be coming here first? >> i don't see why not. more exacting standard with it's like joe biden coming here respect to every single redaction made by barr. to announce to run for president. now if he's redacting something like, you know, why not? that he shouldn't be, if he's >> reporter: a new campaign stop redacting something solely to on the road to 2020. protect the president, there is >> why not, indeed? thanks to morgan radford there. an argument that is actually an let's bring in the panel. obstruction of that judicial committee's work in subpoenaing kimberly is back and joined by the editor at above the law.com. what is a very important document this their ellie, what kind of impact does responsibilities. so i think it was smart that they're going down the subpoena the breakfast club have on the road and let's see if barr african-american community? complies. >> it will be interesting to see if there's one question asked >> i'm old. i remember bill clinton on about the fiscal budget for 2020 tomorrow, which is the reason arsenio hall and played the he's supposed to be there on saxophone. >> is that pandering to the tuesday. katie, take a look at this tweet culture going on the show? >> no, not necessarily. from president trump a little bit earlier today, attacking the i think the way some have gone so-called 13 angry democrats on mueller's team for allegedly on the show is pandering. look. for the first time in a while leaking to the press. nothing new there. the african-american vote is up he's been lashing out all for grabs. weekend long at the mueller and in the past few primaries probe as the release of the the african-american vote has report approaches. been decisive in the democratic so get a sense he's starting to primary. if i was one of the candidates i doubt that whole thing about was camp out. i would be like pope leo iii. complete and total exoneration? >> i guess when i read that i would be there all the time tweet, my first response was well, which is it? is this exoneration? because it's important for these is this reliable information candidates to try to secure and coming out of mueller's team? or is it fake? coalesce the african-american is the press fake? vote behind them. what's going on? the person that does that will i think the ultimate conclusion win. >> kimberly, do you feel that is that the president has said that's why we built the nation's largest gig-speed network it's realistic for some of the candidates to connect with along with complete reliability. like let's see what's in it but people of color by going there he can't really help himself then went beyond. from trying to muddy the waters to a show like this? >> i think that it is important. beyond clumsy dials-in's and pins. and make sure that there is i think the rise of this show to one-touch conference calls. significant distrust in whatever beyond traditional tv. comes out from the mueller and its importance in the to tv on any device. political debate just shows you probe, significant distrust in beyond low-res surveillance video. how the media reports on it. how candidates are increasingly to crystal clear hd video monitoring from anywhere. so the president might be saying understanding the power of the let's see what's in it but black vote. that's not going to stop him i'm going to disagree with eliot gig-fueled apps that exceed expectations. from trying to undermine the a little bit who i love but i comcast business. people who did the work in the think the black vote has always beyond fast. investigation and people reporting on it. been looking and waiting for >> natasha, i want to get you to candidates to respond to them and what we have seen is historically they just haven't. i think you saw a change in that in 2016 with moments, for example, when the black lives matter protesters halted bernie listen to jerry nadler, who was making the rounds today and get your reaction. sanders campaign event to really >> he said he would redact four areas and our position is he get him to address this issue. redablt none of it. >> do you expect you will have and in response his campaign had to go to the court to force the release of the grand jury to change its platform and put information? >> yes, we would have to go to the court to get the release of black lives matter on it. the grand jury information. i think that kind of energy you are seeing a shifting of the >> so i guess the battle over dynamic and candidates in the redactions, possibly spilling wide open democratic field know into a court battle as you might think. they cannot take black and >> yeah, this is what democrats latino voters for granted. have been gearing up for, the road is not for the weak democratic staffers briefed and our road warriors know it kudos to them on this show for very well. the ever-expanding field of reporters weeks ago and said really talking about substantive look if we don't get to see the democratic candidates are racing each other across key states and full report, it's going to be all hands on deck. road warriors are there with we're going to go to court. ir issues and not just playing the they've been saying that from the very beginning. saxophone like bill clinton did. them. shaquille brewster in iowa with they're upset with bar he's been bounce and we begin with our own what about this rising tide redacting grand jury still josh letterman traveling with instead of going straight to a argument? how is medicare for all going to court with congressional leaders south bend, indiana,mayor pete help people? to get that -- to get the forcing the folks to give permission to lease the grand substantive answers. jury material to congress. and they are very adamant also >> barack obama was not that about having to see everything, buttigieg. he spoke at a fund raising cloz popular. including, you know, about these i remember in 2007 covering him going to the apollo theater and peripheral third parties that they're like, that's h -- there. barr said he would try to he came out of the closet about turf. bill had an office there down three years ago. protect in the mueller report. how personal was the message what does that actually mean? the street. who constitutes a third party? today? are -- are voters, black voters, >> reporter: very personal, intimate, and he talked at is it sppeople who have not bee this time around just kind of length about the own struggle charged? what does he mean by having to looking -- what's the most with sexuality as a youngster important thing for them, the and what it was tyke to realize he was gay and fight against it protect their interest? policies or you're one of us? and he talked about his marriage this is a big flag for democrats >> yeah, no. who are afraid a lot of key i think this is a policy driven to a man in religious terms. players in the russia debate about this point. he seemed to be trying to investigation, key players perhaps in 2016, will be historically african-american voters have been strategic diffuse an issue religious protected by the attorney general perhaps at the voters. we tend to think that we're not president's request. voters opposed to same-sex one thing we don't know yet is marriage could try to use how much f. any, material will strategic voters coming the general we're such kind of against him if he becomes the be invoked as executive reliable democrats but the privilege by the president and reason why we're reliable democratic nominee. his legal team. >> my marriage to chasten made a parptsly are b.a. has said that democrats in the general is because of all of the strategy will be left up to him and his that you're looking at, you discretion but how far will he know, throughout the process. better man and yes, mr. vice go there as well? as people like to say black is he going to take a very broad president, it's moved me closer people have no permanent friends view of what is covered by do god. executive privilege because he ectly and name a couple ofnd i has a broad, expansive view of if me being gay it was a choice executive authority? or is he going to go back on his made for me far, far above my word and go to the white house pay grade. and see whether or not they want certain things to be covered by that. things top of mind. and that's the thing i wish the so those are a few things to health care certainly. watch out for but i think it's mike pences of the world would jobs certainly. been very clear in the past week i think criminal justice reform understand. that if you got a problem with they're getting increasingly who i am, your problem is not anxious about what's in the full with me. report. you see republicans kind of for me the most important issue your quarrel, sir, is with my and i agree with kimberly. creator. walking back their desire to have the full thing released and what we need to see are the now you have the president actual policys that are going to move the african-american vote tweeting about this whole thing one way or the other. just needs to be over. >> kimberly, that is different >> especially when we got that >> kendis, vice president mike year and times. pence is not someone who's letter are sent by barr to what are the venues people going to to try to get to the congress and the public. unfamiliar to pete. real quickly, all of you, he was the govern nor of indiana minorities? >> yeah. starting with katie, by this i mean, you are seeing -- you're his home state at the time that time next week do we expect to beginning to see some get the mueller report out pete was coming out of the there, redacted or not? differences among the candidate closet after coming back from themselves and how they are serving in afghanistan and was trying to appeal to voters of actually running for re-election >> i think it's a good bet we will see it within the next week. as mayor of south bend so he color. i was really struck a few weeks >> glenn? told the audience here today he >> i think if we can take barr back at video for a bernie at his word, and that's still an sanders event in south carolina didn't know how that was going open question, he said to play in a deep red state and put it out there because he mid-april. i think we will get something. at a venue that seemed almost let's see if we will get entirely white. wanted to start dating and you contrast it with kamala ultimately re-elected with 80% something sufficiently harris seeking out going to informative and transparent or of the vote and we have to see something designed to protect black communities, even in the president. if he get that is numbers or any >> natasha, we've been waiting states like new hampshire or nearly two years. iowa where you really wouldn't kind of numbers in the will we see it in the next week? democratic primary for think about that because she's >> at the very least he might be trying to show that that is a president. >> mayor pete talks extensively able to release the top line consistent part of her agenda. in the book about the summaries mueller's team i think you will continue to see interactions with mike pence and these candidates in different the policies while he was there ways work that out. as governor. reportedly prepared in the >> all right. beginning of east section for well, they're seeking the vote. josh there in washington, d.c., release barr apparently ignored. our thanks to you. now back over to nbc's shaquille >> he could have released two hopefully many black voters go weeks ago on this sunday instead out there and vote come november of his version of that letter. 2020. brewster in iowa with bounce. my thanks to all of you. eli, thank you. kimberly, thanks, as well. he and beto o'rourke have been natasha, congratulations, by the on a full-court press of the tax fight. why the white house chief of staff say democrats nor the state this weekend. are we seeing any kind of way, on the new job. katie rogers, thank you as well. american people will ever see the president's tax returns. crossover here with the still ahead -- same party, same end goal and even the same weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. message today. supporters? 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(singsong) budget meeting! sweet. if you compare last quarter to this quarter... various: mmm. not this john smith. and bernie sanders this trip has broken away from the big rallies it's no wonder everything seems a little better or this john smith. that you've seen and had more with the creamy taste of philly, or any of the other hundreds of john smiths intimate events, more town halls made with fresh milk and real cream. that are humana medicare advantage members. where people ask him questions. listen to what he told some of no, it's this john smith. the people here ins oskalooska who we paired with a humana team member to help address witit's way day!taste of yes.ly, his own specific health needs. it's wayfair's biggest sale of the year, and you're invited! at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, starting april 10, score our lowest prices since black friday >> we have to end a system by to provide care that's just as unique as you are. which congress continues to represent the powerful and rich on best-selling furniture, decor, and way more. no matter what your name is. with the contributions and we've plus, everything ships free on way day. ♪ got to move to a situation where everything? washington starts listening to everything. and flash deals launch all day long. the needs and the pain of hey guys, check out the flash deal i just scored! ordinary americans. our biggest sale of the year only lasts 36 hours >> and this time around, one so shop way day starting april 10 thing that i found interesting following many of the town hall events and how many times he's been asked about the dnc and the party. there's clearly some distrust that some of the die-hard sanders supporters have with the party and the dnc of what happened in 2016. and sanders comes out saying, hey, there's been a lot of progress. he helped the party out in 2018. the down ballot candidates and he is down for the party this time around. he's committed to being a democrat and supporting the party. kendis? >> still kind of looking at him with a side eye and vice versa from the supporters. your control. like bedhead. shaquille, thank you. want to bring in the panel right hmmmm. ♪ rub-a-dub ducky... now. chris cofinnis and raymond and then...there's national car rental. at national, i'm in total control. siegfried and starting with strong language. i can just skip the counter beto o'rourke was there in iowa. and choose any car in the aisle i like. he was moments ago about the so i can rent fast without getting a hair out of place. u.s./israel relationship. take a listen. heeeeey. hey! >> the u.s./israel is one of the ah, control. most important relationships we have on the planet. (vo) go national. go like a pro. and that relationship if it is to be successful must transcend partisanship in the united states and transcend a prime minister who's racist, wants to defy any prospect for peace threatening to annex the west bank. >> you got it right there. to learn about their medicare options calling netanyahu racist. we know republicans eyeing the before they're on medicare. come on in. jewish vote. you're turning 65 soon? how does this play into that strategy? >> you know, it's a good yep. and you're retiring at 67? question. >> it was a big -- >> i don't know the answer to that's the plan! it's also a great time to learn about that. >> yeah. you know reliable support when you have it, >> i think it's probably a mixed an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, reaction depending on what part insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. of the jewish vote you are and that dependability here's why...medicare part b doesn't pay for everything. talking about. is what we want to give our customers. right now, here's the challenge talking about the democratic at comcast, it's my job to constantly this part is up to you. a medicare supplement plan race. really it all begins obviously monitor our network. helps pay for some of what medicare doesn't. in iowa. prevent problems, and to help provide that is where i think the main call unitedhealthcare insurance company the most reliable service possible. focus is. or go online for your free decision guide when you have this many candidates in a race and more about the only medicare supplement seemingly coming every day, it my name is tanya, i work in the network operations center for comcast. plans endorsed by aarp. is going to be very difficult to selected for meeting their high standards run a five, six, ten-state we are working to make things simple, easy and awesome. of quality and service. this type of plan lets you say "yes" strategy. you really are going to be to any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. narrowed and focused on the key ones in the beginning because do you accept medicare patients? you either catch fire in iowa or i sure do! new hampshire, south carolina, to learn more call or go online nevada or you don't. today for your free decision guide. if you don't you won't be going past that. oh, and happy birthday... or retirement... in advance. >> yeah. you get a sense of the president trying to make a wedge issue among democratic voters. it's a big base for the democrats. i believe they get 77% support among the jewish community. hi, everybody. i'm kendis gibson in new york >> yeah. >> president trying to defy? city. we begin this new hour talking >> i think the president is trying to get in on defying this about taxes. and democrats defining it and we taxes. not that looming deadline that's have seen more and more a week away from tomorrow. anti-semitism cropping up to the top of the democratic party. eye oh, yes, it's just another to file our taxes but the and then giving faint apologies manic sunday. loomi 2020 hopefuls back on the loomi that really don't cut it and looming show down and the to campaign trail from new hampshire to nevada. attorney saying it ain't others within the democrats our road warriors on the road happening. >> using a hearing, ways and saying this is wrong and should with them, aaron hake in iowa means hearing of irs enforcement be held accountable. city with beto o'rouke. disaster when elan omar was to the president's individual, but we begin with nbc news private and business tax returns brought up on the floor. makes no sense and look. it went from condemning reporter traveling with this this i think is going to be -- anti-semitism to we condemn south bend mayor pete buttigieg. things that are bad and no spine and there are plenty of jews he was in new hampshire if necessary, if it's litigated especially democrat who is are yesterday, d.c. today and now it will be litigated. becoming more and more >> dan kildee fired back at the uncomfortable with the direction headlining the breakfast lack of the transparency from of the democratic party -- fund-raiser for the lgbtq. the commander in chief. when he makes it official, he >> there are many jews not as will be making history next closely aligned with israel and week. >> it is not up to president >> that's right. what we saw today, kendis, was see that the president is trump. it is not up to some lawyer that playing the israel card which is pretty un-decemb president trump hires. not the same as playing to this is not an autocracy. jewish voters here in america. the president does not get to decide for himself and for >> which means that many of the pretty unprecedented in american congress what a legitimate jewish voters to stay home in politics. somebody who could be a viable subject of inquiry might be. 2020. >> interesting point there. presidential candidate talking that's left to the congress. i want to look at -- i pivoted a >> all right. in deeply personal terms about does sound like there's a his own sexuality. pete buttigieg when i was here. iowa voters found interesting younger and he found out he was information. biden, of course not officially day, if he could have found out in the race, is leading as a which part was day, he would favorite candidate for those have cut it out with a knife, showdown. hans, the congress is trying to polled and he also is the get the hands on the taxes and and if there was a pill he could candidate democratic voters have taken to not be gay, woe the white house doesn't appear believe can beat trump. to be budging. >> reporter: not only not appear to be budging but looking for a interesting thing here. 63% of democrats polled said have taken that ball. and the religious implications they would rather vote for a of marriage to a man brought him candidate who can beat trump fight an appear to be relishing. listen to how mick mulvaney put closer to god and taking direct over one that shares their it earlier today. ideology and values. swipes at vice president mike pence saying if pence and people >> democrats will never see the chris, is that really what is at president's tax returns. like him resistant to gay rights >> oh no. play for the party right now? never. nor should they. keep in mind, that's an issue >> absolutely. have a problem with sexuality, litigated in the election. i mean -- they don't have a problem with voters knew the president could >> so you have beat trump at the have given the tax returns and him but a problem with his didn't and elected him anyway top, health care, immigration, creator. and when he was younger being a and what drives the democrats whatever else. >> here's the part that i think presidential candidate and gay is interesting about how the crazy. >> reporter: so for the was something he could never republicans, this is asked and race is kind of shaping up. answered. they think that this is settled people will always kind of imagine. let's listen. balance the two dynamics. >> no one would i have believed by the election. that one fine day in the spring almost seems they should be who can beat trump and who has a of 2019 i would be standing in a happy with the 2020 election on vision and kind of policies that the tax return issue. reflects what they believe is ballroom in washington 37 years of course, this is about so much important for the country and more than just a few tax returns for their party. i think what you are seeing in old, veteran of the war in that president filed. afghanistan, eighth year as iowa and what you saw in our largely to do with the proxy of mayor in my hometown, couple how transparent this president poll i think was a very days after going on "meet the is going to be and how interesting dynamic where, yes, press" withes an a credible accommodating to be to a whole biden and sand es clearly strong american for presidency, with my host of congressional investigations or as the candidates but there's another husband looking on at the table. democrats might say group of contenders that are >> we will have to see after congressional oversight and they're undertaking the really formidable of senator mayor buttigieg formally constitution authority, prerogatives to make sure that harris, senator warren and the executive branch is senator o'rourke and i think announces his bid for discharging the duties. presidential campaign in south there will be a fight about senator booker with a real shot and other groups that are bend, indiana. whether he will take off or be this. and also a fight to ultimately basically still, you know, somebody we're talking about in end up in the courts on whether candidates still undefined but the long term, but it's clear or not the president can pay for what's interesting to me when that border wall by you look at and you kind of already he's breaking barriers reprogramming d.o.d. fundings about being able to talk about scratch past the horse race sexual orientation this openly with a whole host of issues, numbers is seeing a very kendis, the supreme court that's different dynamic an that on the campaign trail, kendis. ultimately going to decide this. dynamic is you have biden and >> when have we heard of a sanders who are still very kendis? strong but they're at a ceiling candidate talking so blatantly >> of course, it is expected to last some -- several months if of support whereas you have all about it. i remember it was such a big not past 2020. these other candidates that are deal when obama came out for our thanks to nbc's hans nick if you will the new byes that same-sex marriages i guess seven years ago. amazing moment there. are the contenders and now back to the hawkeye comes there at the white house. challengers that are not even state where beto o'rouke is back begun to really penetrate and joining me is joyce vance, on the beat. gain support and that makes it a nbc's garrett haake continues our team coverage at the michelle goldberg of "the new very unstable race. university of iowa. >> quite troubling i would say garrett, of course, he held a york times" and eugene scott, if you're biden or bernie whole bunch of house parties. sanders and at the top right now didn't see any red solo cops but political reporter at "the because there's one way for you washington post." joyce, let me start with you. he did do a lot of handshaking. we kind of alluded to it there. to go some would think. you have been looking at the >> yeah, that's right, kendis. numbers, evan, the polling and these events over the last four will this fight over trump's some of the reading the tea taxes lead to a serious leaves a little bit. days in iowa have largely been there's some troubling signs for constitutional clash? >> it looks like we are headed the president you see in 2020? smaller than the rallies we are >> yeah. into that sort of proverbial pry used to seeing o'rourke hold. republicans have had a demographic crisis that sis and seems to be overhanging preexisted donald trump. the president was able to get this presidency. and this will be a particularly 66% of white noncollege educated these are people behind me who have been waitling half an hour interesting one because congress voters to vote for him in 2016 has already given the president to get a chance to shake hands, and that was 46% of the a lot of ground letting him electorate in 2016. >> a big chunk. take a photo. intercede with the spending >> but that is expected to drop power reserved by the to 43% in 2020. and they feel like they're not think of it this way. necessarily looking for people constitution for congress. the president of the united now the statute that governs tax states won the presidency by to caucus in iowa but the next group of volunteers,p captains to feel a personal connection to ,744 votes which was the the candidate and thousand how returns saying the house of the combined total margin between him and hillary clinton in pennsylvania, michigan and they build at the early stage of ways and means committee is one wisconsin. this game. you take away just 1% to 2% of in these remarks from beto of few individuals who shall be o'rouke a few minutes ago, we given returns upon a request and that vote or of the overall got a sense of the challenge he still faces. no other inquiry. despite the fact he'shi noncollege educated white vote there are other senate and house and shift it to democrats that's huge. you need a candidate to speak to of a national celebrity, he's still large li unknown some committees that need to show. parts of the country outside his noncollege educated white home state of texas. take a listen to o'rourke voters. so this now heads into court and >> chris, who is that candidate? describing that phenomenon this morning. a lot of uncertainty surrounding >> i don't think it's one. >> to my friend matt, who i met back to the iowa poll, listen, the issue. >> i want to play more of mick demographically iowa is very in the men's room as we were mulvaney because he made a white in terms of the voters and number of headlines today. the caucus. watching hands. he said, are you here to see here's a listen. that's just the reality. >> he's argued that he's under but in terms of what they audit and said that for a couple wanted, what i thought was beto, and i said yes, i am. thank you for being here. of years and legally you could thank you for being here. allow people to see your i was wearing the hat. you couldn't tell. returns. >> you could always allow people to see it. the democrats are demanding that interesting, is it important to nominate a woman and or a person >> that will not happen to joe the irs turn over the documents and that is not going to happen of color, 1 in 2 voters in iowa biden or bernie sanders or some and they know it. of these folks who have been >> i wish we could play that national political names for again because did you hear that? longer but that is where this thought it was. campaign is right now and they i want michelle's take on it. it's a reflection of a changing intend to keep plowing away with he could have allowed voters to country and that i think is smaller events in the early going to be a challenge for states starting to build up see his taxes. no talk about the audit. every candidate. if you're not a woman an you're recognition beyond just the name so why didn't he? but to what this candidate is >> he didn't because there's not a person of color, you need and is about. something in there he is ashamed >> but the key part there is a different message and strategy of or hiding or implicates him. to appeal to voters in an it's early, early on so while right? this idea that this was increasingly diverse electorate biden and bernie sanders said, name recognition there, there's litigated during the campaign is and a major fundamental problem so propostrous because trump that trump has going into the a lot of time to go. garrett haake, thank you very general election. much, man. i want to bring in my panel lied and said he was going to >> and the mind-blowing stat i releasft he was just read and just realized, now, a republican strategist and it's been 15 years since there was a man white at the man of author and also bazellous the top democratic nomination michael, former strategist and ticket. chris, thank you. director of the new york evan, thank you, as well. democratic party. all right. so glad you guys are here with still ahead, the information us. i know you saw the former about an american tourist president, president obama, who kidnapped by gunmen in east was in europe yesterday having a speech. africa and new election poll and you talk about the battle for the perfect progressive. numbers could signal trouble here's a recap of what he had to say. ahead for israeli prime minister >> one of the things i do worry netanyahu. a report from the ground as we count down to tuesday's key elections there. about sometimes among progressives in the united states, maybe it's true here as well, is a certain kind of rigidity where we say oh, i'm sorry, this is how it's going to be. and this we start sometimes creating what's called a circular firing squad where you start shooting at your allies. >> interesting timing that he mentioned that. what do you think he's referring to, bazell? >> i think he's referring to 2016 and making sure we don't repeat the many same thing, particularly berning sanders in the race again and questions about are we moving too far to the left? is this person socialist? is that person socialist or too moderate? i think a lot of the same themes are starting to resurface. >> there are people who are thinking the democrats are to eat their own already. >> i was part of the party in here 2016 in new york and i remember the primary between bernie and hillary and there were things that people said about hillary that were democrat that's donald trump and some republicans also said about hillary clinton. that was very disturbing to me and to a lot of people. and i think that contributed to some of the increase in her inequities, quite for examplely. >> is this like a parity test they're dealing with? >> i would believe so. if i were a democrat, i would listen to president obama. he's been through this and looking at it from a different viewpoint, different limb. he's trying to give words to democrats, don't box yourself in. don't have a repeat of 2016. really, i think it's going to be a bad deal with the primaries are very bloody, if they get really down and dirty. it's going to damage their brand, and i will say whoever comes out on top for the you're having one more bite general, that's going to define no! one more bite! the message of the democrats ♪ going forward. >> right now they've been fairly positive for the most part i should mention. here's a roundup of some of the candidates, many candidates from kraft. for the win win. the last few days. >> his operational tool is fear. but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. makes you afraid of muslims, fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. make ayou afraid of yourself. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. >> the divided country is a weak and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions country. we have politicians and leaders in america today that want to whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. divide us. >> in america justice has not been applied equally for all. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. and so let's talk about that. fisher investments. clearly better money management. >> today in america a minimum wage job will not keep a momma and a baby out of poverty. that is wrong and that is why i am in this fight. >> this is about writing the rules of the game that favor labor again because labor is under attack. >> they know what i know, that the most important task we have is to make sure donald trump is defeated. >> we should have had a double picture to show the republican strategist's face during all of that. you hear these candidates, and do you worry if you're a republican strategist right now for 2020? >> no, i'm not worried about some of those, warren doesn't bother me, bernie sanders certainly does not bother me. beto, i don't know. we will see. someone like a mayor pete, combs from an authentic place. he can connect. that's somebody i've always thought might be a dark horse in this race to look at because you feel the authenticity in what his convictions are and what he's goon through and people like that. one of the things i have noticed that a lot of people are time now for a roundup of bringing up when they're running other news headlines from across is they're bringing up the things that escalated trump's the globe. american tourist and her tour unpopularity which are guide abducted in the national park in uganda rescued by immigration, border, border crisis, they're bringing up security force there is in east africa. racism, they're bringing up a reports say the kidnappers got lot of things that were livewire away when law enforcement and soldiers moved in. officials say that an armed gang kidnapped the american tourist tickets that engaged social and the driver at gun point from media against trump. the national park and demanded >> are they bringing up health $500,000 in ransom. care enough? >> they are and they will. authorities in southern quite frankly -- >> never too early for louisiana investigating a string of suspicious fires at three democrats. >> and do we really need to if african-american fires in recent republicans are going to repeal days. police say it's not clear if the and replace, and by the way, your replacement will be after fires are connected and declined the elections. so we don't have to do anything to get into what the investigators found so far. except defend the policy barack the churches were vacant at the time of the fires so there have obama and republicans have been been no injuries. championing the past few years. a big honor for house and people tell me they vote for one or two reasons, pride or speaker nancy pelosi. she is the recipient of the anger and fear is the greatest profile in courage award by john motivator, unfortunately f. kennedy library foundation, one of the most prestigious motivating towards violence. but when you think about the way awards in politics. democrats are running, it's caroline kennedy, called the prideful. they're not going after each other yet, which i'm glad to see and the diversity of our speaker the most influential candidates is something we should be really proud of person in history. dreams come true. >> i think there's a third element people are voting are especially if you're virginia te and texas tech fans. both teams going to face-off in going for, who can beat trump? the ncaa finals for the first >> that's important. time tomorrow night. electability is important going uva clinched over auburn in a after the president but i think any candidate we can put forward can do that. nail biter with the final >> all right. seconds resting on three shots leave it right there. at the free-throw line and a controversial play i should noel and basil, thank you so mention and texas tech beat much. michigan state with the famously still ahead -- malware at suffocating defense. president trump is up for mar-a-lago. after a woman was arrested, of course, for having a thumb drive re-election this week in a with malicious software. national election. truecar is great for finding new cars. sort of. you see, israelis will vote for who will lead their next government on tuesday and through billboards, print ads, commercials on tv there you'd think trump and benjamin netanyahu were running mates. he announced to annex the west bank if he wins. this follows president trump's vow to recognize israel's control of the golan heights. >> i stood with your prime minister at the white house to recognize israeli sovereignty over the golan heights. >> so if he was re-elected on you're smart, you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. tuesday netanyahu could be the you'll see what a fair price is country's longest serving prime and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. minister. bill neely is following the now you're even smarter. story in tel aviv in israel this is truecar. where pollsters are just stumped on who will win. bill? >> reporter: yes, hi, kendis. this is seen as a desperate move, appeal for votes from a prime minister who's in the race of his life. neck and neck with an opponent, benny gantz who's never run, an oh! oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ election race in his life. so in order to win votes (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. benjamin netanyahu suddenly on in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults television last night announced a promise that he would annex lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven part of the west bank. and maintained it. now, that's land captured by oh! under seven? israel in the 1967 war. and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, so it's been under israeli adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. military rule for half a century oh! up to 12 pounds? and is now home to about 400 a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk thousand dollars jewish settlers of major cardiovascular events and talking about 10% of the like heart attack, stroke, or death. west bank. but the problem is that for the oh! no increased risk? 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(vo) get more music on us with vip tickets to the best shows, like shawn mendes and camila cabello. plus, save big when you switch. only on verizon. i don't know which oath is coming up next. i don't -- stop. >> can you all hear it? the audience saying, run, stacey, run. interrupting the speech. stacey abrams making a splash with voter this is week as momentum builds for her to take a dip in the senate or presidential pool. so here's how she answered that question with my colleague joy reid just earlier today. >> the reality is a senate job is a six-year job at the very beginning and i wanted to be intentional about thinking through what that would mean. running for president wasn't on the timetable this quickly but the energy and the passion i'm feeling means that i have to give it serious consideration. >> joining me is two guests. and beth fooey, senior politics editor. welcome to all of you. you heard the excitement there. christine, let's start with you. why's it all a sudden as if she's the it woman? is it all of a sudden? >> she is -- she is proven herself since she was introduced to the american public if you will on a national level last year around this time. i don't think that stacey's being coy and trying to sort of keep her 15 minutes in the spotlight. i think she is a thoughtful person. you can look at what she's written. look at the policy positions when she was an elected official and i think she takes public service very seriously an enso if you think about the coalition she built across georgia when she was runn for governor, i think the race was stolen. that's my educate opinion as dr. greer but the coalition with the white working class, people of color, young, new voters, people never touched before by an elected official or anyone running for office is something she worked hard on for a long time and to expand that strategy out i think she is thinking seriously about it but it's not something that anyone should take lightly and especially someone like stacey abrams and do -- >> get a sense she said i won't be the running mate? >> why would she? >> she shot down those rumors. here's a listen. >> i do not believe you run for second place and i do not intend to enter a presidential race as a primary candidate for vice president. >> okay. she is a failed gubernatorial candidate. don't give me those dagger eyes. so what qualifies her for the highest job in the land in. >> well, what qualifies beto o'rourke for the highest job in the land, right? what qualifies pete buttigieg? i think you can with all of these people raise real questions about their experience but i think that just -- we see a lot of white men who have failed to get the sort of next job on their agenda decide to go for the top and people don't question them quite as much as they question stacey abrams. >> or woman for that matter? >> it's impossible for me to -- but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient i think the fact that we are originally discovered... asking these questions about her, not asking them about beto, in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown it's inconceivable that a to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. 37-year-old college town mayor who's a woman would be drawing crowds and taken seriously and sorry, is that too loud?oud. so -- i don't mean that as a you don't need any more hormones in your house. knock against mayor pete who i that's why you chose kraft natural cheese. like and admire but i just think made with fresh milk without the added hormone rbst. that we should be really clear it's cheese as it should be. about the double standard. >> go ahead. >> i would say, i mean, interestingly enough, to your point, no question there's a gendered issue going on here and at president trump was elected there's a question of why not me? people can run and win who were not predicted to do so before and i think stacey abrams is taken seriously and the problem for her at this point is it's getting late. it just is. it seems crazy to say that. april of the odd numbered year. however, we have got 15 other candidates in the race competing for money and talent. competing for support. if she waits she said she could wait as late as september to make a decision of running for president. i don't think that's feasible anymore. bill clinton in 1992 got in in october of '91 but there was no iowa caucus that year. there was a favorite son in the race, tom harken and everybody skipped iowa. iowa is not something to organize in three months. >> president trump got in the race of june of the year before and that's seen as too late. >> little bit lat. >> i want your take on this. as we were all kind of alluded to, this is a very, very diverse field of candidates consisting of women, two black men, mexican american men, taiwanese, a gay man there, pete. why is it that you have the two straight white guys at the top of all the polls? >> it's name recognition a lot of it. certainly in the case of joe biden and somebody who -- >> fastest fund-raisers, by the way. >> someone that provides comfort to democrat who is think of him as a lovely, you know, grandpa of the party. bernie is almost a cult figure with a hardcore base with him in 2016 and now and right now he should be treated as the front runner until biden gets in. it is just a fact and whether it's fair or not given that the -- the diversify of the field, two white guys at the top is reasons why that is. >> there's data that show that white people will also give to white people way more easily you're having one more bite no! one more bite! than a candidate of color. ♪ and so that's been a historical norm. i think that there's the wealth divide is very real and you have communities of color that don't kraft. for the win win. have the same amount of capital and political tithing is not in the same cultural norm. >> okay. >> in a lot of ways and explains why the two sort of white men have much easier time fund raising. i agree with you about september being too late but the fact that biden is not in yet and we have the name in the conversation i think stacey still has a month, two, three months before she can decide and let's be clear -- >> running out of people. >> her's the thing. >> on the ground right now, biden's people and -- >> democrats haven't decided and a lot of people not yet excited about the 16 people who have yet declared. >> i got to wrap. i have to leave it there. sorry, michelle. couldn't get you to weigh in on that. thank you, guys. thank you. all right. still ahead, a traffic jam at the border. the president re-signs border agents for the state of emergency. oh look. michelle's daughter on set. that's the trojan there. that's been going on. awe. what a cutie there. i can't comment for the white house but the last few years i have been accused of all types of things and they provedá false. pose a great national security concern? >> because of the president's leadership the world is saferxd today. concerns that resident trump gave him akushne clearance, even though career officials warned against it. despite ae1 lacke1 of governmen oh, wow. you two are going to have such a great trip. thanks to you, we will. experience, kushner has emerged as a central figure in the trump this is why voya helps reach today's goals... ...all while helping you to and through retirement. white house. can you help with these? he has beene tasked q!ozi] midd we're more of the plan, invest and protect kind of help... east peace, managing the opioid voya. helping you to crisis, reforming the criminal and through retirement. justice system and latest duty is expand some forms of legal immigration, even as the president threatened to shut down the border with mexico. his pl. what's your çótakeaway why he's there? >> it's almost not what's going on behind jared. but how do i know if i'm i'm getting a good deal? everyone likes to talk about i tell truecar my zip what happened to the security and which car i want clearance, new reporting from and truecar shows the range of prices "the times" that there were people in my area actually paid for the same car incredibly sketchye1t( dealings so i know if i'm getting a great price. security clearance, he didn't pass his background check over this is how car buying was always meant to be. and over again and it was highlk this is truecar. recommended he not get a security clearance, top-secret security clearance second to the top. >> it could be influenced by some foreign countries. >> that's right. the list -- it's almost what country with a dictator in charge and with bad human rights policies isçó jared kushner not doing business with? he had all of these allegiance associates and business ties and passed through because thei] president came in big footed and seemed to have cleared him. but we don't need to go back. don't need g back and say what happened to fact he's manifestly a national security threat, along various lines. i will take just one of the most shocking,e1 which is his relationship with mbs, the romance krt crown prince of saudi qñiarabia, which is now t intelligence services agreed now ordered the death of an americai journalist jamal khashoggi. this has to be kept in the news because jared kushner helped cover that up. >> from what you learned dwlur work on yourçó podcast and beyo, has he -- do you believe there's a foreign entity right now that% is at play ande1 manipulating wt jared is doing? >> what -- you mentioned the up. trumpe1e1 side and the author oe up. down. down. ah ah! that's one. up. that's two. book called "kushner inc." got down. down. astonishing access.people around him and one of the things she get down, get down. investigated, and this is a in the water, in the water, little for realvaf you ready for this? she doesn't like it... you've gotta get in there. kushner catastrophe and sheñi okay. careful not to get it in her eyes. i know, i know what a bath is... pointedt(ó[ out for the buildin smile honey. this thing is like... steeply under water in the first kid. here we go. kushner family that job one for second kid. you coming in mommy? jaredu ahh not a chance! by their second kid, every parent is an expert and more likely to choose luvs than first time parents. luvs with nightlock plus absorbs wetness faster than huggies snug and dry for outstanding overnight protection at a fraction of the cost. live, learn and get luvs. >> i'm keeping5a it this way fo tv but it's not much more complicated than that. and this was in vicki word's tz#ñ>> two weeks ago about this time, i follow you on twitter, by did way, what was and i notice you sent out a happening, michelle's daughter tweet that was verye1 key, talkg ran in on set. we were trying to keep her off. about the mueller report, she was very cute. all right. moving on. mueller investigation. in his war on immigration president trump launches a new attack saying he is redeploying agents to the u.s./mexico border tweeting in part, we have redo ploying 750 agents at the southern border specific ports i cannot hear questions about it of entry in order to help with but it's bad. the large-scale surge of illegal of course, thene1 we have thelpr letter a fewe1 minutes later. my grants trying to make the way does that hold e1up? into the united states. >> it really does. this will cause traffic and commercial delays. ife1 this were damaging, it's vy of course, this comes on the interesting. heels of president trump backing i noticed that now we have off his threat to completely people from the offices of the close the border as he ramps up his rhetoric on illegal special counsel leaking to "the new york times," not just to me or my sources.xd immigration. >> our country's full. we're full. >> your sources still think it's our system's full. our country's full. can't come in. our country is full. what can you do? in that thread and i give credit we can't handle anymore. our country is full. to my sources and this isn't me can't come in. doing the reporting, the second i'm sorry. it's very simple. >> so back with me now is chris part of that thread says the barr letter is nothing like the mueller report. kofinis, democratic strategist i was nervous putting that out and the former choief of staff for joemanchin and evan hang on every bit normous of it. siegfried. evan, is trump -- what is the i feel people needed to know in state of play right now with advance of the barr letter, they this? with this anti-immigration ~iueller rhetoric for him. >> that's what fires up his base. we saw it in 2016 and the i think it seems like the president needs his base american people understand that politically right now to stand the total exoneration, summary by him if everything else that's happening, congressional investigations and 2020. of the barr letter we got from the president is right. there is an immigration crisis. however, he's wrong as to what the president is just possibly the crisis is. more obstruction of justice or we have to have actually have he's trying to avoid ae more capacity to asylum reckoning,ing as my editor at the "l.a. times" put it. applicants and ted cruz came up >> very scandalous especially in light of the all with a process for more law of the new reporting we had in the past week. judges and the president talks thank yo appreciate it. about illegal immigration and still ahead -- heavy dealing with it. rotation and how a popular show the crisis isn't on the southern has become one of thexd popular border but visa overstays. stocks on the 2020 presidential since 2006, more illegal trail. 2020 presidential trail. sees immigrants have come into the another bird that looks exactly like him. united states by overstaying the visa than the southern border. ya... he'll figure it out. >> have they expanding the only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ grants? 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(cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. election of the visas. >> chris, let's get you weighing guys go through a lot to deal with shave irritation. so, we built the new gillette skinguard in on this. with a specialized guard designed to reduce it. beto o'rourke made headlines of because we believe all men deserve a razor just for them. compares trump's remarks to those of nazis. the best a man can get. >> the president of the united states called them rapists and gillette. criminals. we would not be surprised if in the third reich other human if your moderate to severeor crohn's symptoms beings were described as an are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough infestation, a cockroach or a pest to kill. >> is that fair game to compare it may be time for a change. the sitting president to a nazi? >> well, i don't know if it's ask your doctor about entyvio®, the only biologic developed and approved fair game. i mean, here's the problem. just for uc and crohn's. i think the president for the entyvio® works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract, last three years even before he was president has used this and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. issue as a divisive wedge in the infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen country. there's no disputing that. his rhetoric has been racist. during or after treatment. there's no disputing that. entyvio® may increase risk of infection, he still keeps kind of which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain concocting this crisis at the southern border a crisis that he infection caused by a virus may be possible. is helping create and tell your doctor if you have an infection manufacture. the notion the country is full experience frequent infections is comical. or have flu-like symptoms, or sores. putting all that aside, you liver problems can occur with entyvio®. know, your job and responsibility as president is to solve probables. not perpetuate them. he is not willing to work with democrats to solve immigration or work with republicans and then why? and the reality is it's because for him it is a political issue. evan is right about that. it is something he will basically help energize the base. unfortunate part about that is the impact it has on this country. it just further feeds this divide and this anger that we are clearly seeing is pervasive. so the president basically creates i think the problems that he then fixates on, a cam call tragedy of his presidency. >> all right. so to pick up on that, chris is saying, evan, is this what's going to be his core message come trump 2020? >> first of all, i thank chris for saying i'm right for the first time in history. >> maybe the last. >> i'll take it where i can get it. this is the president's core message because it's all political, all about keeping that base and that level of support. otherwise the bottom will drop out. i used to live in a trump building and look good on the outside and horribly made on the inside. that's a metaphor for the administration. the president is selling sausage and he has nothing to sell and offer the voters other than feelings and we know that presidents are not great at being graded on feelings but results. >> and, chris, really quickly, the president says he gives mexico for a year to get a handle on the immigration issues but two years to reunite families. >> it's empty rhetoric. >> okay. >> the president -- let's be clear. he won't solve this problem. he doesn't want to solve this problem. he's never going to solve the problem. he's incapable of solving this problem or any problem an the reality and the frustration that the american people feel let alone democrats. >> democrats say it's a problem that he's aggravated and out there with his own version of a solution. my thanks to chris and evan. thank you. when democrats attack. republicans play hard ball. from mueller's report to the president's taxes and the handling of security clearances. still ahead, the showdowns of capitol hill and the white house. at carvana, no matter what car you buy from us, you get the freedom of a 7-day return policy. this isn't some dealership test drive around the block. it's better. this is seven days to put your carvana car to the test and see if it fits your life. load it up with a week's worth of groceries. take the kiddos out for ice cream. check that it has enough wiggle room in your garage. you get the time to make sure you love it. and on the 6th day, we'll reach out and make sure everything's amazing. if so... excellent. if not, swap it out for another or return it for a refund. it's that simple. because at carvana, your car happiness is what makes us happy. how do you determine the durable value of a business in the transportation industry without knowing firsthand the unique challenges in that sector. coming out here, seeing the infrastructure firsthand, talking with the people behind the numbers creates a different picture. once i know what a business is truly worth, we can make better informed investment decisions. that's why i go beyond the numbers. ♪ there's also a lot to know. the most important thing? 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we have a lot more for you. new heart breaking stories of the victims and heroes in the synagogue shooting as a wounded rabbi vows terror will not win. the barr fight escalates. democrats hit back as the attorney general threatens not to show up at a highly anticipated hearing. could democrats subpoena william barr in the end? and election security or rather insecurity. a dire warning from the fbi director. the clock is ticking and russia ups the election interference game just in time for 2020. we're going to start this hour new details on the deadly shooting on a house of worship in california. just over 24 hours old now, one person was killed, three others injured when a gunman opened fire. it happened as worshippers were marking the last day of passover and exactly six months after the tree of life shooting in pittsburgh. another synagogue that was the deadliest attack on the jewish community in u.s. history. poway mayor describes it as a hate crime. today we focus on the four victims. 60-year-old lori gilbert-kay was killed. she was killed when she jumped in front of the rabbi. she was trying to shield him from the bullets. from the killer. she'd gone to the synagogue to pray for her mom who had recently passed away. her husband, a doctor, was there helping victims. he fainted after realizing he was performing cpr on his wife lori. the second victim but a survivor, rabbi yisroel goldsteen was shot but staying to console congregants. noya hassan was struck with shrapnel. and 34-year-old almog peretz was shot in the leg. cal perry outside the synagogue in poway, california. cal, what is the latest that we understand about the survivors? three individuals just describing and, of course, the big question, motive? >> reporter: you know, first to the survivors. everybody is thankfully in good health and minor wounds, of course, the psychological wounds will be far greater. with motive, hate, a 19-year-old white male who put online his hatred and picked a holiest days to act out on the hate. luckily it wasn't as bad as it could have been. we are talking about this 19-year-old white male with an ar-15, fully loaded with lots of ammunition and then inside the gun jammed, this according to officials and or the gunman was confronted by an offduty officer and when the gunman fled and we know from what he put online he had aspirations of a new zealand-type attack, something on a much larger scale so it's a tragic day in this community. no question about it. but a lot of the questions that police looked to answer in these investigations are being answered quite early, richard. >> cal, we understand that, you know, an important figure in this, the rabbi and he was out in the streets trying to getter help, you have been reporting on that, after the shooter then got into the car. the rabbi we expect to speak in the next hour. is that right? >> reporter: yeah. people anticipate this rabbi, he's a symbol of strength for the community and i think for people of faith around the country. earlier today the rabbi was talking about the importance of freedom of religion in america and people come together in this moment an what the community is trying to do. they are, of course, grappling with a number of issues, the least of all being hate and anti-semitism and gun violence, as well. we live where 100 people a day killed by gun violence. 40,000 people a year and something here that people are talking about but certainly this community and the synagogue behind me looked to leadership of the rabbi since its founding and will continue to do so and we'll look at that certainly press conference and the fresh comments in about an hour, richard. >> cal perry, thank you, sir, for that report there in poway, california. cal was mentioned the rabbi and recovering from injuries today and is going to still speak we expect in a briefing today. he spoke earlier today on nbc's sunday "today" from the hospital after emerging from surgery. >> i turned around and i was face to face with this murderer, terrorist, holding a rifle an looking straight at me. he started to shoot towards me and i putt my hands up and my fingers were blown away. and then he continued on and killed lori kay there on the spot. i turned around and i saw a group of children in the banquet hall including my granddaughter and i just ran not even knowing that my fingers were blown off, and just curled all the kids together and got them outside. >> again, that was the rabbi speaking earlier. let's go to clint van zandt. clint, you know, been talking about this for 24 hours. what is it that stands out to you now that we are a day later? >> well, there's a number of takeaways: number one, this congregation practiced, they talked about what to do smould an event like this happen. so they were caught off guard, obviously, but they still knew what to do once they realized what was going on. richard, when i went to the place that i worshipped this morning we have security both inside and outside. the chances are small that a house of religion will be attacked but i think churches, synagogues, all across this country are preparing for an event like this and this just makes this one more time run through our mind and say if we get a wannabe like this rngs someone that thinks they by themselves change the world and commit an act like this, how do we stand against it? >> we were speaking yesterday with jonathan greenblatt, of the anti-defamation league and saying they began to work on a national level with the task force to find ideas how to protect and mitigate this -- these sorts of killings at places of worship across the country. what do you know about this task force and will it work in terms of what they're doing an the ideas that they're coming up with? >> i think it'll raise the security level. again, i spoke to one of the security people at the church i go to and they are very careful. they have been trained. they're inside. they're outside. they understand that current and former law enforcement officers may come and may be armed. they're very careful they don't have a blue on blue type of confrontation. they're trained to look psychologically for the physical movements of someone. if their clothing is inappropriate. if their demeanor is inappropriate. i think churches, synagogues, mosque, all across this country have been forced to prepare for the unthinkable which is what we saw one more time yesterday. >> you know, as we have been talking throughout the years you and i after such tragedies, we're seeing places of worship increasingly being the target of these terrorist acts. more than the others are synagogues, places where folks, every day americans, are practicing the faith of judaism. why is that number higher? from the adl, found a significant rise in anti-semitism. 2015, 941 in terms of incidents were counted and then as we move forward to 2017 look at that. more than double. why specifically disproportionately is this community facing such an attack? >> i think there's a lot more hate that's on the internet. it's, unfortunately, very easy, whether you're a white supremacist or a radicalized islamic fundamentalist to turn in to the internet, find people of like mindedness to encourage you to commit an act like this. this 19-year-old who did this act yesterday, this guy's not an original thinker whatsoever. he copied the actions, he copied the behavior of the shooter in new zealand and pittsburgh. he didn't have an original thought in his head. other than to go in and try to kill people. >> quickly here, i know you're wearing a profiler hat, could you profile this suspect? would you be able to find such a person and is this profile becoming more common whether you say it is identifiable or not identifiable? >> could i find him by looking at him walking down the street in no. but if we take the combined numbers of american who is are on the internet and say just like in new york city they told us years ago if you see something say something, if you see this fiery, deadly rhetoric on the internet and it's attributed to one individual, and he's speaking about potentially doing something, we all, every one in america has an obligation to notify law enforcement. that's all you have to do. call the police. call the fbi. they'll figure out if he's someone on a path to murder or not and many times, richard, we're able to interset the person along the path and stop him before he acts out like this. >> flip side is starting to talk about other devices or other moves such as artificial intelligence to help in this space because of the language used along the way. always great to speak with you. thank you, sir, so much. i now want to move to jonathan greenblatt, ceo of the anti-defamation league. thank you for taking the time. this is a very busy day. we spoke yesterday after the tragedy happened. what have you just learned in the conversations, either with those from the synagogue, the rabbi and what are they thinking and doing moving forward? >> well, richard, we did speak yesterdays and now i must tell you i have been really just overwhelmed spending the past almost 24 hours here in poway, first and foremost, by the resilience and strength of this community. i spent last evening at the end of the passover holiday and the end of sha bat with the rabbi and his sons and other members of the community and the sense of strength from them, mourning the wounded and the dead, realizing the miracle not more people harmed in this heinous attack. it was inspiring and reminds us as the rabbi said today that we will not be deterred by terror. that we will not be intimidated by this kind of intolerance. anti-semitism has been a problem for thousands of years. and the jewish people we shall overcome. >> you had tweeted out some recommendations on what to do to further this discussion. i want to share some of them that you did tweet out. commit to reviewing policies, provide staff training, publish a detailed breakdown. give us more detail around that, jonathan. >> sure. it takes many forms and troubling because in 2019 in modern day america we see it almost normalized. we see it from both sides of the political spectrum. new media but in traditional media. like a heinous cartoon that ran in "the new york times" just yesterday. vile anti-semitic propaganda and we were talking about the need for people in positions of authority. you know, whether the president of the united states or the head of "the new york times" to speak out forcefully and firmly consistently and clearly against anti-semitism in any form. we shouldn't tolerate it anywhere. >> talking about the silver lining. we'll finish with that. lori gilbert-kaye, 60 years old. jumping in front of the rabbi to protect him. i spoke with a close friend of hers for about 20 minutes yesterday. she was a person that would cook for those who were unwell at the synagogue and she would not cook enough fir one meal but for days. what did you hear about lori? >> you know, i'll tell you something. this is the kickoff today of holocaust memorial week. i'm going to a service just after this where we honor the murder of 6 million martyrs. it saddens me that today we honor the memory of martyr, lori gilbert-kaye. they make us stronger. our hearts to out her and her family an we'll use the inspiration of her bravery, of her heroism, to energize us in this fight against intolerance. we won't giver an inch. >> jonathan greenblatt, thank you sir. appreciate your time as always. >> thank you. all right. coming up, with cyber threats lingering, how are local governments preparing ahead of the to 20 election? lnlg barr is threatening to refuse to testify before congress this week. our allergy ? flonase relieves your worst symptoms our allergy ? including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. what is that? 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[ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. it's just another way we're working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. foreign influence, maligned foreign influence, we use to describe the fairly aggressive campaign that we saw in 2016 and it's described in special counsel's report and that has continued pretty much unabated is use of social media, fake news, propaganda, false personas, et cetera, to spin us up, pit us against each other, undermine the faith in democracy. >> so that was part of fbi director chris wray describing the cyber threat to the country that it faces right now from hostile foreign actors in response to local governments already busy beefing up the election security in anticipation of 2020. a new call for a look into concern of election security on friday. now, one of those that -- of those states is state of michigan which the president won by only 10,704 votes. that's in 2016. now the state is using $10 million in federal money received under a spending bill last year to try to protect its election systems. i like to go to michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. ma dom secretary, thank you for being with us. you know, there is that concern of what happened in 2016. as you know, the state of michigan was directly/indirectly mentioned in the mueller report. there was an example of a fake twitter account. that was then retweeted by a candidate, the republican nominee at this point. what is your concern looking towards 2020 and then, of course, what are you doing to prevent that from happening? >> we need to do everything to detect threats and deter adversaries by making sure we are bringing the best ideas to michigan and upgrading the infrastructure so that we can stay ahead of emerging threats as well as being prepared for those we know of. there are three vulnerabilities in the system. the records, the machines and how we transmit data from machines to results on election day and shoring up the security areas of those pieces and making sure voters have confidence in the system is part of our effort to insure elections in our state. >> the senator there of ron johnson republican when asked today on "meet the press" the response was that dhs has done so well that larger investigation into election security is not needed. would you say that dhs despite public calls recently for more focus on it, would you agree they're doing enough? >> we need more focus and we need more focus. dhs improved significantly in the past several years bringing in great minds and putting a strong focus on cyber security in particular but we always need to do more because even if you told me today we're completely prepared for every threat we must be preparing for the threats emerging and ongoing focus and growth in this area is part of the democracy for years to come. >> as you know you and all the other secretaries of state trying to gather this year and this is a big topic for you. as you have been looking at the foreign influence task force, again, i'll say it, foreign influence task force, and other groupings, what are the new ideas out there? this is a 365-battle for folks reich now? >> absolutely. i have an election security commission here in michigan bringing in national leaders co-chaired by david becker and a professor of university of michigan, they're bringing in the best ideas to make sure we leave no stone unturned in implementing the research done to secure the machines in particular and ensure that voters are getting information that they can rely on. as opposed to -- including where to vote and the subject of the election. but we can't underestimate the voter confidence piece, as well. even doing erg we can to secure the elections if voters don't have confidence then it's potentially all for naught and we're securing the elections and communicating with voters. >> very quickly here, 2016 compared to 2020. if 2016 was rated 5 out of 10 in terms of election security from your point of view, what's 2020 look like? >> it say 8 out of 10 in terms of preparation but same time it's the threats have likely increased, as well. as well as our attention on them. so it's a dance that continues for cycles to come. >> you are hoping that voting there in that state is pure michigan. right? >> absolutely. >> thank you so much, michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. appreciate your time. let's bring in the panel now. "the new york times" columnist michelle goldberg, david jolly and former u.s. attorney from michigan barbara mcquade. barbara, since we are talking about the great state of michigan and you heard what was said there by the secretary of state, and she laid out those three categories. of the three in your discussions there with leaders in the state, what stands out to you? >> well, i'm grateful that we have people like secretary of state benson to take care of this threat because what i'm hearing is concern that the president at the national level is ignoring this threat. i think that he perceives that russian interference in the election in 2016 in many ways threatens the legitimacy of his presidency and so he's taking a hands off approach and in absence of national leadership in michigan at least there's been statewide leadership to step into the void and i'm grateful to do that in michigan. i hope other states are as prepared. >> representative, when we look at the thematics as barbara's talking about nationally, the president at the moment is equating the very idea of election interference with russia and russia for him at the moment is not a threat at least by his words that he chooses. >> long the way. your reflection? >> every single one of our intelligence leaders here in the united states believes russia is a threat going into 2020. apparently secretary nielsen believed that, as well. her concerns quashed by the president himself and the chief of staff and to barbara's point this is where going into 2020 sadly because the president has either missed the moment or on vis kate the challenge, we have to look to leadership on this. we learned more about the 2016 race in florida that in fact one of florida's counties was likely compromised. i know it seems elementary. we'll come out less or more confident than we were in 2016. if it is less it is a very dangerous trend for how we view democracy here in the united states. >> voter by voter. one of the 2020 -- there's several 2020 election security concerns and i'll -- one of the big ones is that 45 states using voting voting systems no longer manufactured. 40 states are using machines at least 10 years old. jurisdictions without paper backups. >> yeah. you would think that if this -- if this government took this seriously you would have a whole of government response to upgrade the systems, to make sure that everything was secure. i don't think it's so much that trump doesn't understand the threat. i think that he as he did in 2016 likely welcomes whatever help he can get from, you know, supportive autocrats abroad and getting that support again. >> i want to switch to another subject somewhat related to this and over to you, barbara, on this. william barr expected to face again congress: it is a possibility. word is to refuse to arrive and new conditions on the attorney general's testimony. the house judiciary, new conditions saying this. for his testimony. ask questions about redacted portions out mueller report in executive session. also, that they can ask questions for 30 minutes after all members have finished. what if the attorney general says, no, to all that? i'm not showing up. >> ultimately congress has the upper hand here. they have subpoena power. ordinarily there's an accommodation process that occurs where the parties try to work out a voluntary appearance but if they want to they can subpoena william barr to come and he has to come and testify and so if they want to play hardball they can just offer him the subpoena right now and bring him in. my guess is to try to work it out in the interest of professional courtesy to a co-equal branch of government. >> so there's one element here i think might get negotiated to barbara's point an the fact that chairman nadler is suggesting that staff counsel could cross-examine the attorney general and washington protocol highly unusual for a staff counsel to directly examine a sitting cabinet chairman but chairman nadler says he makes the rules and not the attorney general. if that is not resolved and doesn't show up, a subpoena is in order but i think that democrats in the house need to move even more quickly and consider sencuring those who refuse to appear. this administration is not behaving according to normal historical parameters, if you will. i think it is time for democrats to move swiftly to admonish this administration including bill barr. >> your former party in the house did issue a statement on the attorney general's potential testimony. they said in part, this. the attorney general isn't a fact witness. and this committee's investigations as democrat leadership reminds us daily don't constitute impeachment. so democrats have yet to prove their demands. michelle michelle? that's the consistent response to this process that various committees are moving down looking for testimony. >> well look. i think that it probably is a good idea for the democrats to begin impeachment hearings and do away with all of this stonewalling but let's remember this process of being interviewed by staff counsel good enough for christine blasie-ford, right? that's how they approached the questioning of her in the senate and the idea that she should have to deal with this kind of treatment but bill barr, the chief law enforcement officer in the united states, can't handle questioning and kind of slightly adversarial process? other thing is there's actual information that the american public need to get out of this hearing. you will remember the mueller report. it was both about donald trump's misdeeds and possible obstruction but it was also about russian interference in the 2016 election. you know how maddening to go back and forth in the five-minute blocks. right? it makes it very difficult to kind of follow any thread of information. it makes it easy for witnesses to stonewall and so there's a real kind of legitimate public interest in having this done in a way that allows a sort of coherent narrative to emerge and that's why you have the half-hour blocks. >> if the american public believes in most importantly. michelle, david, barbara, thank you. have a good sunday. coming up, the religious bias fueling the recent rash of violent hatd crimes and what president trump can do to try to unite or divide the nation. ♪ with venus, you're in charge of your skin. so, write your own rules. because no one gets an opinion on why you shave - or how you show your skin. ♪ so chantix can help you quit "slow turkey." along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. today, life-changing technology from abbott is helping hunt them down at their source. because the faster we can identify new viruses, the faster we can get to stopping them. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. deadly shooting attack at a jewish synagogue in california underscores concerns of rising incidents of hate crimes in the united states and around the world of all faiths. in the past six months there have been three mass shootings at western places of worship. while the majority of americans say these groups face widespread prenlgs there eons a difference on how discrimination is perceived. recent polling shows more democrats say the groups face discrimination compared to republicans and note bring republicans say of all groups, attacks on evangelical christians are on the rise. but the most recent fbi data shows that hate crimes against muslims and jews happen more frequently. president trump alluded to -- there is as you can tell here by the numbers a partisan disagreement. joining me martin cohen, professor of political science at james madison university, emma brown, managing editor at "the atlantic." martin, the perception that evangelical christians specifically believe that in their case on the republican side that violence is on the increase and the opposite for those who are not in that group. how do we put that together? >> well, i think there's a growing divide on in everything in this nation and look at partisanship as the culprit. regardless of identity and other aspects of people's lives, everything now is -- seems to be filtered within a partisan lens. >> emma, because you have been on the ground for instance in pittsburgh six months ago covering that horrific tragedy, the largest number killed in america in history for our country. >> right. >> how do we put that into context? i was going down the road here with martin is it political first? is it rely first? it's clearly a little bit of both but how do we understand this? >> so we see with growing white nationalism and extremist white wing attacks blaming jews for being powerful, controlling the banks and the media and targeting them for all sorts of ills that they we perceive like rising immigration and pairs with anti-black racism. there's a trio, a combination of viral sent. against minorities that all falls under this header of white nationalism which is on the rise in the united states. >> so how do we put it in context what happened yesterday, martin? if both of your thematics, story arcs here on the money and at least by the headlines it would appear that we're pretty close, how do we understand what happened yesterday in poway, california and north of there where a man drove a car into a group of muslims and what we are hearing is the reason why we had done so? >> well, i think that the white christian nationalism we see on the rise has been a good predictor of support for donald trump in the 2016 election. we're seeing as emma pointed out not just one minority group targeted but several and the overwhelming, you know, perpetrators of these occurrences are generally white christian men. >> if we have the different corners acting, right, unfortunately violent ways, emma, as we look at some of the leaders that could potentially pull folks together, the big tent, i was speaking with the mayor there of poway yesterday saying i'm the mayor of all my residents including people of all faiths and how recently he gathered each and every leader from the respective groups and all friends and friends of each other. who might that be now on a regional, state or national level? >> you know, i've been reporting in pittsburgh since those attacks six months ago and the thing i heard from people is they're united an the leaders are you noited across the faith groups, the political lines and what they want to see from national leaders, from vice president pence, from president trump, are clear statements of condemnation of anti-semitism, anti-muslim phobia seeing the attacks connected. >> part of that we talk about presidential speeches or thematics or leadership here, martin, is you remember when president obama was first elected he didn't want to necessarily have to talk about race and religion but he had to talk about race and religion and gave a big speech that at least from our reporting was not necessarily one of the first things he wanted to do. is that what is needed to lay out the platform, the religious platform, if you will? >> well, i think what's needed is not necessarily a big, huge speech by the president or the vice president or other national leaders but just behaving in a normal human manner towards some of the victims of these crimes. we saw it with the reaction obviously to charlottesville back year and a half ago and i think the public is looking for the president to be emphathetic and to understand that he is not the only one agrieved at this time. >> yeah. we are in a different time where things -- when an issue like religion certainly in a political lens is crossing over more in the last two, three years. martin cohen, emma green, thank you. former vice president joe biden is a familiar face on the global stage. many would say. coming up, how the world is watching biden's run for president less than 24 hours before his first campaign rally. s because i can't find a bladder leakage product that fits. everything was too loose. but depend® fit-flex feels tailored to me. with a range of sizes for all body types. depend® fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. depend® fit-flex underwear >> tech: at safelite autoglass, we every chip will crack.. this daughter was home visiting when mom saw a chip in her windshield. >> mom: honey is that a chip? >> tech: they wanted it fixed fast so they brought it to us. >> mom: hi. >> tech: with our in-shop chip repair service, we can fix it the same day... guaranteed. plus with most insurance a safelite chip repair is no cost to you. >> mom: really? drive safely. all right. ♪ acoustic music >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, ♪ safelite replace. time now for we said/they said. former vice president joe biden threw his name in the 2020 race sparking a lot of media reaction overseas. >> the democratic party shifted to the left. there's a record number of candidates running. minorities are represented. women, young candidates but joe biden is none of that. he is 76 years old. he is considered an old white man if you will. >> biden's hopes his long time connection with working class voters help him carry states like michigan where trump beat hillary clinton in 2016. >> joe biden will have to convince the youthful members of the democratic party that his 76-year-old white man is the only candidate that can defeat president donald trump. >> in addition to that, news outlets were also focusing on some of the challenges biden might face. >> he's not the me too candidate by a long shot. not only does joe have his own touchy-feely proliveties. >> he has a challenge of having been in washington for decades and decades and the past positions taken on the certain issues don't necessarily appeal to progressive democrats. >> the former vice president has been accused of women inappropriately touching them. another one of the gaffes as they say from joe biden. there is plenty for democrats to attack when it comes to joe biden. >> now, headlines in the uk, they offered up unique analysis. don't expect a re luvolution. they're cheering for a candidate who represents everything the left should abhor. a moldering at the moment corpse of a long failed electoral strategy, a black hole of charisma and ideology. biden holds the first rally tomorrow in pittsburgh in battleground pennsylvania. all right. coming up for you, the story behind a defining me too moment. we'll speak with a filmmaker whose powerful hbo documentary highlights the survivors of usa gymnastics dr. larry nasser. if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture now might not be the best time to ask yourself are my bones strong? 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(vo) snap and sort your expenses to save over $4,600 at tax time. quickbooks. backing you. how much is a little girl worth? look around the courtroom. remember what you have witnessed. because everything is what these survivors are worth. >> there's a new hbo documentary chronicling a defining saga defining sagas of the metoo movement. by one of the stories, i mean hundreds. this documentary followed 12 survivors and their experiences with former usa gymnastics dr. larry nassar. over 260 women stepped forward accusing him of sexual assault. at the sentencing, 156 women gave statements against him. out of all those accusers he pleaded guilty to only a fraction of those crimes. nassar admitted to sexually assaulting minors and for that he was sentenced to 40 to 175 years in prison in january 2018. just over a week later he was sentenced to an additional 40 to 125 years for three counts of sexual conduct with minors. in march, 51 women sued usoc for failing to keep the women safe. you spoke to a lot of survivors. what is it that you learned that you didn't know when you started and i surprised you? >> i didn't think i understand the ripple effect abuse can have in a person's life. it really came down to a matter of do they trust people or not. >> do we go, i don't know if i can trust anybody but at the end, i have hope still? the numbers are huge in is one doctor. >> right. i try to approach it from an investigative journalism standpoint. pinpoint and go through detail who are the enablers, msu, usoc. the people that surrounded nassar and focusing on the women in michigan who have not been able to tell their story. these are people who have known nassar 31 of 37 years. i mean, this is like he was family friend. he wasn't just a physician. >> the sexual assault timeline is five years long for some of these survivors, up to 20 years for others. >> he really tried to gain access to children when they were children. as they grew up, he still was part of their lives. he was their doctor. when they stopped doing gymnastics, they stopped seeing hill. as you asked before about like where does it go. it's like the cultural enabler, that section moving into these incredible toaestimonials of th women and moving into the courtroom where they confront him in realtime. >> by the numbers, bad, bad, bad person. do you get into how the gears turned? >> absolutely. he's one of the most prolific pedophiles of our time. we spent specific time talking about the grooming behaviors that he participated in. >> grooming behaviors? >> gift giving. really thinking about how to be nice to the parents. really think about that. >> did it write it all down or he just used the same method every time? >> it was a systematic method. we have not seen if he's written it down. he did it time and time again. the pattern did not vary wildly. you see someone like kyle stephens where that was a different pattern. we wonder how many more young survivors are out there. >> perpetrator. we don't focus often enough of the perpetrator. a lot of victim blaming going on around the world. what do we learn from this perpetrator that we can apply the other spaces outside of what nassar is? >> it's a great question. nassar did not look like the typical pedophile. he was the nice guy. it was somethibody the gymnasti trust. we need accountability about who is interacting with our children and vet every single person. background checks should be a part of it. really for me, it was thinking about who he was. when you look at him inside the courtroom, he's so sad. he's deflated. he looks like who you think he would be. you see the videos of him before and him on the sidelines with these jgymnast. he's smiley. he's not the guy you would expect. >> for those who have seen him on the local news and feel they know they everything they know. why should they see this? >> there's such a different experience watching all these women inside the courtroom, in a documentary setting after you've heard their stories first hand from them. i think the news has gotten to own the story, which is important because it was a huge story but like now the women are take it back. you hear my voice but i'm not part of it. i'm giving them the platform to communicate and do it. this is a movie for and by them with what i really wanted to think about. >> as they outline the person that destroyed their lives for a moment but they are all bouncing back, i assume. >> absolutely. >> coming out this friday. erin lee carr is the film makers. we'll be right back. he film makers we'll be right back. at panera, our salads are uniquely crafted. with peak season berries, creamy avocado. and a dressing fit for a goddess. come taste what a salad should be. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be. ten detailed acts of obstruction of justice. robert mueller's report lays out a roadmap for impeachment proceedings against this president and challenges congress to do its job. i'm tom steyer and we can't let this president destroy the public trust, break his oath of office and get away with it. congress has to do its job and hold him accountable. please call them at this number. tell them to get going. that does it for me. im i'll be back saturday. for now, reverend al sharpton and politics nation. good evening and welcome to politics nation. tonight's lead on this sunday evening, americans of all faiths and none are grieving over the loss of life. the brutality we saw yesterday in california. the fears that many others and i initially had had been born out by the investigations thus far. one woman is dead. three people are wounded. the 19-year-old suspect in custody alleged to have been inspired by the attacks on two new zealand mosques last month and exactly six months prior to the attack. that horrific mass shooting at a synagogue in pittsburg. authorities are reporting