true. that helps him to say. if you are arguing that giuliani may have been out there operating on his own and not for me. and the fact he had all of these other potential pieces of client work with ukraine government officials helps him. for sure. so i m just saying it gets complicated because if rudy doesn t want that narrative depicted might be out of his hands at this point given the wealth of evidence. what was the white house response to the decision regarding don mcgahn being forced to testify. they re appealing it. buys them a little more time. there s going to be the appeal hearing. the judge s wording was very tough saying we don t have kings. that s a tough ruling for this white house to confront. it s a tough ruling but i think that we tend to look at these decisions that come down from the courts in particular piecemeal in terms of here s an individual decision and here s a statement from a judge. and there are people who are following this who are going to rec
insurance policy idea if it was about the bidens? it didn t make any sense. but here s also part of the thing. you have to remember donald trump is like because he s a cult-like leader, he gets people and he isolates them from everybody else. rudy doesn t listen to his advisors anymore. he s caught into that web of trump. so he may feel he knows other things. maybe he s he just talking trump s language. maybe he s just making a whole mess of it so we talk about it for all i know. that s part of the problem too, right? because if you worked for any elected official, there are all these sort of extra governmental people around, right? folks that sort of operate outside of the bureaucracy and outside of the normal channels of the office. but there s never been someone whose hands have been in so much that has created such a disaster for this presidency. and for the american people to operate this sort of shadow democracy. that s what s just so scary about it because i can t imagin
trump is like because he s a cult-like leader, he gets people and he isolates them from everybody else. rudy doesn t listen to his advisors anymore. he s caught into that web of trump. so he may feel he knows other things. maybe he s he just talking trump s language. maybe he s just making a whole mess of it so we talk about it for all i know. that s part of the problem too, right? because if you worked for any elected official, there are all these sort of extra governmental people around, right? folks that sort of operate outside of the bureaucracy and outside of the normal channels of the office. but there s never been someone whose hands have been in so much that has created such a disaster for this presidency. and for the american people to operate this sort of shadow democracy. that s what s just so scary about it because i can t imagine any elected official, republican or democrat, allowing someone this much leverage. to go interact with foreign foreign actors. that s the
guess, pro bono personal lawyer not a diplomat. right. i m sure we re not hearing from him because he probably has a lawyer telling him, you need to stop talking to everybody. and you know, rudy giuliani is everywhere in all of this and, in fact, that meeting i believe it was on may 23rd that they in the white house with volker, sondland and rick perry with the president, they were talking about ukraine and how the president needed to meet with the new ukrainian president. just been to the inauguration, excited. what did the president say? talk to rudy. talk to rudy when it comes to this policy. that s another part of all of this, because the last i can recall, rudy doesn t i don t know if he s got clearance. was he on the payroll? does he work for the united states government? typically an outsider involved a number of steps you go through such as a clearance and ethics review and so forth beforehand.
it is a strange relationship. okay. i don t think we re being told the translation here is follow the truth. those relationships and funds the money. going back and forth will tell so you have money that is going us a lot. as you peel the trump onion, from businessmen who are in we are back to whether trump florida but connected to ukraine, making money in ukraine doesn t know if he represents him, rudy doesn t know if he working with giuliani, making money with giuliani in various works for these people, nobody ways we don t fully understand, knows who works for who. funneling that to u.s. electeds hard to claim attorney/client privilege when everyone forgets at the same time pressure is they have a lawyer. coming to her to get rid of her. thanks to you both. remember, most of her testimony it is something we tried to get to ukraine, not always our today, big chink wunk was to pr friend. up next, special fallback friday with katy tur and corruption in ukraine, it was the corruptio