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sense. the ultimate result is that the top leadership of the wagner group was on that plane with the exception of the executive director who hadn t taken part in the coup. so we ve sliced off the ideologic of people who were a challenge to putin and mother russia and the war in ukraine, and you ve left intact the wagner structure which has been beneficial in states like africa. let me jump in there. it s surprising to me really. you have prigozhin who wasn t born yesterday. he s on the same flight as two of his top lieutenants who were apparently part of this attempted mutiny. do you really think that prigozhin felt like he was out of the woods, that he would get on a flight like this with his top two lieutenants and, i guess, break security protocol? well, you have to look at the
they re interpreting what s been going on and how are they interpreting what s going on. i think there are two sorts of reporting coming back to us. one is out of the sort of viral network itself, and they re wondering several things. first of all, they think it was a bomb on board, not a missile that brought the aircraft down. we ll see in due course whether that s true. they seem to be pointing the finger more at shoigu than anyone else who, of course, is the defence minister and a sworn enemy of prigozhin. and they re also mystified, i think, as to why ovechkin, the number two on the in the organisation, was travelling on the same aircraft. presumably, there is some security protocol that that would mean that that would not be happening. and can you explain why the finger might be pointed at shoigu, the defence minister? and is it plausible that he could pull something like that off without some sort of sign off from vladimir putin? yes, i said there were two sort of lines of though