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september, then we have a very, very serious violation of the justice department rules that you shouldn't be conducting one of these investigations in the 60-day period. >> there has been an informal tradition in the justice department. but in a recent report the justice department inspector general noted the 60-day rule is not written or described in any department day policy or regulation and does not call to an end for active investigations. giuliani also attacked the special counsel's motives. >> he knows the answers to every question he wants to ask. he is going to ask him did you -- do you think we are fools? you want to trap him into
perjury. the reality is that he doesn't need to ask a single question on obstruction, he has all the answers. the president is not going to change his testimony. stop the nonsense. you don't have a case. >> president trump joining in on the attack tweeting today, this is an illegally brought rigged witch hunt run by people who are totally corrupt and/or conflicted it was started and paid for by crooked hillary clinton. the confrontation could be more political than legal. jonathan swan of axios writing giuliani is setting up unmeatable expectations for special counsel mueller a kind of insurance policy with the president's base by claiming
so doesn't work to attack the media to attack your opponents. i think in this case, rudy giuliani has been talking nonsense from the get go. he says what the law is what the law is not. donald trump has never been in a position to sit down and testify under oath, not under oath because he can't tell the truth, and can't determine fact from fiction. he will either incriminate himself because keeps not understanding what is illegal or commit perjury. so i think the problem with their show is that they have been banking on frankly just like we heard last night from devin nunes. a lot of protection. what happens if that goes away. you have real committee chairman who is going to subpoena all documents and take their charge
rudy giuliani, with jay sekulow. is he hughing to what he says. >> the president wants in a lawyer, is somebody to get out there and fight and say things that may not be the things that other lawyers would say. to get out on television and to challenge and stir up the political waters if you will. that is what rudy giuliani is doing. he is doing what the president wants him to do. that may not be the best strategy. it may be that another lawyer who has gone through these high profile cases want this kind of advice. the president wanted to be out there and mixing it up and sit back and play the lawyer's game. i think this is the strategy that he wants. i hope if i get in trouble with a prosecutor, i get to decide what they ask and don't ask. he is bringing it out into the fall election campaign and
Chris Matthews debates hot political issues with politicians, newsmakers and Washington leaders.
>> how essential is it then to get the interview? >> well, they could, it depends on how much mueller wants to bank on this subpoena issue. whether or not he feels on the law on his side. i personally think the law is on his side. a sitting president is not above the law. it wasn't exactly on point. it was for documents not tape and everything would indicate that the court would rule in mueller's favor. it behooves both parties to do this voluntarily like clinton did. we saw him testify before the grand jury via video tape and that worked out for him. >> that is interesting too, there is negotiation with clinton. >> ken starr give the subpoena. the issue may have never reached the supreme court. >> jennifer rubin, that
Chris Matthews debates hot political issues with politicians, newsmakers and Washington leaders.
up and trump doesn't show up, we continue to the supreme court and ultimately the supreme court is going to have to decide does the president of the united states in a criminal trial have to respond to a subpoena? now once again, he could take the fifth amendment. that would be truly horrible for the head of the federal government to be interposing his own interest between that of law enforcement and the president of the united states. so that becomes a very painful exercise. and i think it is not a good look for the republicans to have the president claiming that he is above the law. it doesn't go over well and sits poorly with people. and i think it is going to be very hard if this thing goes up the chain for republicans who are likely to take quite a beating anyway in november to continue to defend this behavior. >> peter, if it ended up playing
out this way, that would be playing out with the midterm elections sort of the backdrop with the midterm elections. your sense in the white house do they believe this could be an asset for them or is this bluster. >> they might as well try to use it to generate as much passion as they can among supporters. jennifer is right with what the clinton team did. they concluded they didn't have a legal case to stand on to resist the subpoena. and she was right, they didn't negotiate the subjects, they negotiated the time limits. they does have a midterm in that case as well. that influenced the impeachment effort in the hill. that could happen here. this is no question going to be
giuliani is wrong, is it is specifically for a candidate. mueller and his team will take that into consideration. if they don't come down with an indictment or subpoena prior to september 1st they will wait. james comey didn't follow that rule. we all remember. so it is not really a hard and fast situation. >> all right. thank you all for joining us. and coming up, remember when donald trump promised to hire quote the best people. former campaign manager on trial. two cabinet members forced to resign over ethics issue. congressional supporters facing charges of insider trading. speaking of november, going to head over to the big board and take a look at the state of
play. not just the special election in ohio, a lot more that happened on tuesday. and president trump bragged that any candidate he campaigns for will win. finally, roundtable with the easiest job in the world, telling me something i don't know. this is "hardball" where the action is. not so cute when they're angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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the cabinet, we're going to have all the best people. and find out who they are. >> i have got some good ideas for some positions. some terrific people. >> we have incredibly talented people that will be put in cabinet positions and other positions, you will be very proud of it. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was donald trump on the campaign trail boasting that he will hire only the best people. a pledge his critics say he has fallen far short of. paul manafort is charged with tax evasion. former national security advise
er-michael flynn pled guilty to lying to the fbi. and chris collins charged with insider trading. two of trump's cabinets were forced out over alleged ethical violations. democrats hoping it might stir a backlash with voters in november. joined by timothy o'brian. what do we know about how donald trump hires people? >> if you are going to hire the best people, you have to be the best person and donald trump has never been the best person. he is not a sophisticated manager, not patient. he has always cut people quickly. if you don't build a strong team, you don't have a lot of loyalty and don't attract first
tier people to come to the team. he has attracted opportunist. the people who came into his campaign weren't convinced that he was going to win the election and saw this as a quick hit. low and behold he won. they went there to a certain expect they were on the dole, the trump dole. >> joined by ruth marcus. i heard mike murphy on a podcast recently. he said he likened the campaign trump put together, the island of misfit toys. making the point that we are
hearing here. wouldn't have found a home in a lot of cases in other political campaigns. >> i have a very vivid memory of that when then candidate trump came to the "washington post" editorial board in march of the election list. he unveiled his list of foreign policy advisors. none of us really heard of. they included carter page and george papadopoulos. how did that one work out? >> that is interesting too, that has led to controversy, speculation and investigation and it ends up being a defense that you heard offered by trump allies that is essentially, hey, the guy put no effort into this. that ends up being the defense of carter page and george papadopoulos. essentially saying trump didn't care, he wanted names on the page. >> he did care in the sense that
the people that he has surrounded himself with, i think tim is exactly right. the supply is limited. a lot of people who would ordinarily want to work in a white house scurry away. also people who want to be surrounded by sycophants and want the adoring cabinet meeting and the ego stroking he basks in. and if you are not wanting to do that, he is hiring for the stroking. and if you are not willing to do that, he doesn't want you around him >> the guy who ran for president in 2016, a lot of people would argue he was in position because of the apprentice. the eye for talent and all that sort of thing. i'm wondering, though, reputation politically now, a lot of people who have
traditional political resumes on the republican side do not want to be near this administration. back in the days trump the business man, what was the reputation. >> it was a boutique mom and pop operation. elite real estate laughed at him. considered somewhat of a cartoon character. selling this illusion of being a gifted entrepreneur and being someone who could spot talent. and sold the similar illusion on the campaign trail. it was a very apprentice type of promise which he largely has not been able to deliver on. donald trump himself is enormously conflicted. he has more financial conflicts of interest than anybody else who has sat in the oval office.
anyone in the administration looking for guidelines whether you are wilbur ross or scott pruitt. >> even if unconnected are piling up. there are threads getting easier to tie up. republicans are out for themselves. collins may be a minor figure in all of this. i wonder about that a little bit in this sense. in 2006, there were a number of republican congressional scandals, the one right before the election was mark foley.
drain the swamp. is there any difference in how the public perceives this now only anybody tin the sense that of this about trump was aired in 2016. how much was baked in when he was elected. >> i think in 2018, you have an electorate that is convinced that the whole place stinks, swampy with democrats and swampy with republicans. and i think you make a really important point. the culture of corruption argument worked very well for democrats back in the day because the center piece of the corruption and the corruption scandals actually were in the congress. you had all of the jake abramo if. f. here, it is a little bit of a
bank shot. collins might make it easier. the better argument for democrats is not just culture of corruption, but more focusing on check on trump, check on power. people understand that this administration needs a little bit of oversight say, and that's where that interesting devin nunes tape comes in. so not just draining the swamp but overseeing the president. >> a check on president. worked except for two exceptions. ruth marcus, timothy o'brien. thanks for joining us. ahead to the big board. primaries that may have offered us powerful clues.
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portends to november. other elections that offered clues about november. maybe in some cases stronger clues. washington state, primary in washington state, they do it differently. open primaries. everybody, democrats, republicans whatever party you are runs on the same ballot. you get a preview of the november election and the primary. the primary results are often pretty similar to the general election. let's take you through what we saw in washington. i pressed the wrong button. this is the biggest headline. cathy mcmorris rogers. she is in the leadership and she is pretty solidly republican district. in this open primary, she ran barely ahead of her democratic opponent. under 50%. she is running in a solidly republican district.
26 years since elected a democrat. and yet under 50%. the lineage in this district, 1994, a democratic speaker of the house, tom foley represented this district. people started to say, does this mean there is a big wave here, two months later, democrats lost the house for the first time in 40 years. and became the first democrat since the civil war to lose the district. how about this one, open seat here. a republican incumbent not running. district that was run by three points by hillary clinton. this man. dino rossi, we got a great candidate here, a test this week. how popular is he in that primary, 43%.
open primary. the democrat behind there. not the number republicans w wanted to see. this one, jaime herrera beutler. running with 42% in this primary. that is a trouble sign. sorts of indicator when they pop up. is there a trend, is there a pattern. and this wasn't a primary, but something that we have been talking about. chris collins, republican from new york. under indictment. he is running. it was a district that was on nobody's radar until 24 hours ago because president trump carried this thing by 24 points. if collins stayed in this race, this is republican, and maytrum
republican. if you want to know, funny things start to happen in wave years. candidates get jammed up like collins. maybe you know this name, and if not goiogle it. patrick flanigan. up next, the republican tax plan not cutting it with voters. trump's appeal is wavering. ramping up the fear and anxiety when it comes to pelosi. will that work? you are watching "hardball." making cars lighter, it's a good place to start, advanced oils for those hard-working parts. fuels that go further so drivers pump less. improving efficiency is what we do best. energy lives here.
really do. >> casey wants to stop that. he has become one of the most liberal senators in washington. leading the resistance. >> we can fight illegal immigration. >>o connor wants to take away your guns. >> welcome back to "hardball." tuesday's special election in ohio highlighted the challenges republicans face in the fall. may be turning to a new strategy as the associated press rights, as republicans enter the final month of the primary season, they are looking ahead to general election. >> i am joined by emily noe, noah rossman.
one way to look at this, we were just talking about this in the last block. white house party almost always loses seats in midterm. the opposition party can say, don't you want a little bit of a check. this is an attempt by republicans to try to tell voters, the other option is worse. >> i don't know how successful they will be. it is difficult to develop a clear and coherent message when the message of the party is a personality. trump is the republican party. so i don't know how you make an argument around conservative policies when the avatar of the party isn't conservative. when the avatar is a fire storm of controversy. so difficult to get out from under him. i suppose you can demonize the other side, but trump takes up so much oxygen. >> that is an interesting
question too, we are getting the impression that donald trump is going to spend a lot of time this fall on the campaign trail and he is out there, they may hand him in a script but he goes off the script. if he says something, it becomes the national political debate for weeks. >> it may be the last thing they hear. popularity, his appeal, doesn't translate. and we see that in a couple of examples when they get behind him. >> there was some surge in turnout that donald trump benefitted from in rural areas. i looked at ohio 12 this week, the places that surged to trump in 2016, strongly republican but
the energy level was low there relative to the suburban parts of the district. what is it that motivated them in 2016 and can it be replicated. >> the dirty secret is republican party is depressed. not happy. you have an almost explicitly negative message. and negative messaging works. donald trump is a reference on the election. it is not about a foreign policy issue. it is a values election. and the values are donald trump. referendum up or down. it is going to reinforce that message. >> what is your reading? there is the debate, as best as i can see, was it cultural stuff that resonated in rural areas in the heart land? was it trade, was it economic? >> 2016?
yeah, all of those things. negati negative referendum on hillary clinton. on the party in power. so again, i would like to see them run on a positive message of what we did this term, and did in congress, which was tax cuts. there is a story to tell but no one telling it. >> the folks that were with hillary clinton in 2016, we saw it again in ohio, it is there, clearly. i look to those areas, rural areas, i talk about the thing that was striking to me, parts of those districts that obama won. barack obama was able to win these parts of the district. is there a message from democrat the this midterm or is the democratic strategy no, our folks are energized and we are going to ride that. >> they must have a message.
and that message has to do with this is a vote of your life, the direction of the country is not a good direction for you or your children and we need a new set of policies. it is a set of policies and deconstructing the united states. a range that are following those on the hill republican control. in 2016 we had hillary clinton. in some ways an unmotivated base. those things in terms of motivating black voters, that is not quite the issue now. and of course there is issue stuff around russia. so folks are excited. donald trump shows up anywhere, the democratic base will be motivated. those folk who is don't vote, if
he shows up on the scene, they will be motivated. >> i keep talking about ohio, but he campaigned for balderson, the next day kasich is saying i am not sure balderson wanted him to do that. at the house side, five or six-dozen of them, do they want him out there campaigning for them. >> these races show the suburban voter, the swing voter, purple voter. republican policies -- so they would like to tamp that down and whether donald trump comes out there and talk about the tax laws or himself that remains to be seen. >> hope hicks back into trump's
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fluctuate. the difference stands at 121 with kobach holding the slim lead. still counting provisionals and mail-in ballots. it is kobach responsible for overseeing the vote counting. colyer called on -- an the year . . and the indescribable rush of saving drivers an average of $620. why does fear feel so good? i fell in love three times -- once with a woman, once with a country, and finally... with myself. -so, do you have anything to declare or not? -isn't that what i'm doing?
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we are back with the "hardball" roundtable. emily, eddie, noah. people are in, people are out and then back in. and if they are not back in, people are talking about them being back in. >> if hope hicks comes back it is because she is loyal to the president. a real relationship, father, daughter. she is known in the west wing as trump whisperer. they need her. they need her to translate his ideas into policy. and need her to calm him when he needs to be calmed. >> in the post hope hicks white house from our standpoint is there any discernible difference? >> no. absolutely not. chaos to my mind. and reasonable chaos. with hope hicks present. i don't understand this. all i know is that hope hicks had an interview with mueller,
right? and all i know is i remember reading "fire and fury," that moment on two page 9. >> you got the page numbers here. >> steve bannon loses his mind. he says i am going to tell your dad on you. he says donald trump jr. will crack like an egg. she can still come back, but it still hovers over her head. >> you have the book memorized it sounds like. >> noah, kansas governor race, i am fascinated by the irony that kris kobach made his name, it is going to come down to a recount that his office has control of statewide. this is a big moment for the republican party in a way. what he represents potentially being nominated in kansas versus
this establishment accountin a difference of votes. >> the president overruled some people around him and said i am going to endorse kris kobach, you don't normally do that. you don't do that for a reason. incumbents have built in base of support and obviously donald trump commands a lot of power and influence within the republican party. and it doesn't get closer to 91 votes. now we have basically an open war within the republican party in kansas over the future of this. and meanwhile, a democrat is going to be competitive. kathleen sebillous is going --
from the standpoint of a conservative reformer. >> there is an independent, greg orman. up next, these three, tell me something i don't know. you are watching "hardball." i can do more to lower my a1c. and i can do it with what's already within me. because my body can still make its own insulin. and once-weekly trulicity activates my body to release it. trulicity is not insulin. it comes in a once-weekly, truly easy-to-use pen.
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running for office. women hesitated before because they needed to be asked and recruited. there is polling being done this cycle whether they were running on their own impetus or asked. it is the former, deciding it is their time to do it. >> eddie? >> on this day, on the eve of our anniversary of charlottesville jesse owens won gold medal. >> an amazing moment in history. >> "new york times" reporting, a meaty agreement to defend the alliance done before donald trump could get there. whatever you think of this presidency, a president is not in charge of his own foreign
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