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Thought it was a bad idea, but it can get everyone involved in it in deep legal trouble. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please, make sure we dont go up to the capitol, cassidy, keep in touch with me. were going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> and do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the 6th we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral ...

It is not impeachment that stops him, it is not indictment that stops him, it is conviction. if you impeach him when you fail to convict, then you dont constrain him, you empower him. if you indict him here and failed to convict, you can elect him president again. >> ambassador john bolton, thank you for your time tonight. >> for more on what we are learning about the special counsels investigation, i want to bring in one of the most foremost experts in election law, republican attorney ben gins...

To bring in one of the foremost experts on election law. ben ginsberg. he also testified as an expert before the house january 6th congressional committee. thank you so much for being hear. when you hear the reporting about the three statutes that are allegedly cited in this letter. that is what trump is ultimately charged with. which one do you think is the most important? >> well, it really depends on what the facts that jack smith presents are. if there is a case with broad conspiracy with lo...

Microscopic. >> interesting. the conspiracy to defraud the u.s. seems fairly straightforward in terms of what that portends and actually means, barb, but what about tampering with the witness? we spend some time talking at the top of the show about how tampering with the witness might not actually mean tampering with a witness, similar, but that it could actually be that umbrella for a potential obstruction of an official proceeding charge. what do you think this might mean, barb? >> my guess is...

Shrugging off a potential third indictment while trump calls on his allies to strategize over spots. as the 11th hour gets underway on this wednesday night. >> greetings, i am symone sanders-townsend in for stephanie ruhle. we begin tonight right here in washington where a grand jury has been hearing testimony regarding efforts to overturn the 2020 election. nbc news has confirmed that the target letters sent to former president donald trump from special counsel jack smith includes three federal...

That group that was reaching out to others in trumps orbit, attempting to find out who else may have gotten a target letter. i should note that as we came to air tonight here at 9:00 eastern, so far they have not uncovered anybody else who has also gotten a target letter in the january 6th probe. we, know that jury that is hearing evidence is expected to hear more from other witnesses tomorrow. one going back for his third visit before the grand jury. we have learned that trumps team has been as...

From michigan to arizona, to georgia, exactly what do those conversations entail, and to what extent was donald trump potentially directing them? that is the information that we would be waiting for from the special counsel jack smith. >> matthew, the three criminal statutes mentioned in this target letter, theres the deprivation of rights under color of law, conspiracy to defraud the u.s. and witness tampering. i want to ask you about that first one. "the new york times" reports that this statu...

Go so quickly. particularly after the work hes done in the other -- the mar-a-lago documents investigation. apparently he is ready to go. it certainly sounds that way. >> norm, you co-a memo assessing potential federal charges the special counsel could bring against the former president. how does your assessment matchup with the three statutes of the target letter that he could potentially be charged with. deprivation of rights, and conspiracy to commit an offense or d for the united states and ...

Testimony of witnesses like former white house aide cassidy hutchinson. it could also be the same obstruction of an official proceeding section that the doj has used over and over again to prosecute january 6th defendants, the qanon guy and stewart rhodes the head of the oath keepers. it could also be both, we dont know. we dont know a lot, but what we do know is this. the other two statutes in projects mid target letter were described to nbc news as conspiracy to defraud the united states and t...

Hutchinson. it could also be the same obstruction of an official proceeding section that the doj has used over and over again to prosecute january 6th defendants, the qanon guy and stewart rhodes the head of the oath keepers. it could also be both, we dont know. we dont know a lot, but what we do know is this. the other two statutes in projects mid target letter were described to nbc news as conspiracy to defraud the united states and the deprivation of rights. the conspiracy to defraud -- could...