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general under president clinton and former federal prosecutor. julia, i will have you play a few roles for me tonight because you do also cover the justice department. jeff sessions in the room with the president when he is told that robert mueller is going to be special counsel, according to bloomberg news. jeff sessions offered his rec resignation in that moment. >> i think the idea that robert mueller had been appointed was pretty obvious right there. he saw the writing on the wall, that it was because he had recused himself from this investigation that this had been allowed to happen, that rod rosenstein was allowed to appoint this special counsel. the way we all see it and the logical way to see it is the appointment of robert mueller was because of the firing of jim comey. it was actually the president's decision to fire jim comey, not jeff sessions' decision. but knowing donald trump and i think jeff sessions had a good
read on the man, he knew he would also be in trouble. we look back the last summer and the number of times we were on sessions watch and the people i talked to at the justice department said he will hang on by his fingernails for this job. he thought this was his last role in politics. it is one he wanted to get to for a long time. his former law enforcement days are some of the days he holds most dearly. and he saw this as his last big role and really his place to be able to push through a lot of the decisions, a lot of these policies on immigration and the like. he was going to hold on to it for as long as he could. he did see this would be the thing that would fracture the relationship. it has for some time. we saw the president attack jeff sessions just this week. >> harry, the president obviously doesn't like robert mueller. we have known that for some time. but he does keep bringing up what he perceives as a bias that he almost offered him the fbi
director job, that he had some sort of dispute over fees at one of his clubs. could either of those things be considered bias? >> so no. we already know they're not considered because the doj gave him a clean bill of health. but it is interesting because it is the second mueller is appointed that sessions realizes, uh-oh. that's before all these make way charges of 13 angry democrats, et cetera. who is bob mueller in that second that you just have the revelation that he's been appointed? he is the best, most dogged, most methodical, most honest prosecutor of his generation. that's who he is then. right away the problem with him is not bias. it is effectiveness. which has turned out, in fact, to be the problem. >> let's talk about manafort for a second and go back to julia one more time. julia, manafort's trial has just now ended its first week.
it focussed a lot around what we heard from the accountant today talking about how she knew she was filing incorrect taxes. but also there was that $15,000 ostrich coat, that bomber jacket. the prosecution is very clearly trying to paint manafort as a big spender that didn't care about cheating the government and the american people in order to furnish his very lavish lifestyle. how is the defense doing? >> not as well, katie. right now we're seeing a list of prosecution witnesses. they lay out a pattern of who paul manafort is. he spent a will the of money on his lifestyle and is so desperate to hang on to that lifestyle that he was willing to exaggerate his income in order to get bank loans and then deflate his income in order to get a deal on taxes. he didn't care who he took down in the process and he didn't
care what kind of dirty characters he had to work with in order to get there. we will see now going forward is the defense is going to try again and again to discredit witnesses, particularly gates. we now know he will testify. the prosecution said yesterday they have ever reason to bring him forward. they want to paint him as the lynch pin in the prosecution's argument and they want to show he is not someone that can be trusted. for those reasons we actually believe that the prosecution won't wait until the end to bring up rick gates. may bring him up early next week so he isn't the last thing in jurors minds when they go to deliberate. another thing that i don't think went over very well judging by how brief their questions were is they wanted to show that paul manafort had left plenty of bread crumbs for anyone that might want to look into this. that with his first accountant who has not gotten immunity because he didn't do anything
wrong. he refused to lie for paul manafort. he was basically able to say, yes, i knew they were working with foreign people, but i didn't know he had foreign bank accounts. the defense wants to say there were plenty of bread crumbs if his accountant didn't know it, and this is important, and if the irs didn't want to do an audit and bring a civil case against paul manafort, why all these years later is a justice department bringing a serious criminal case? but it doesn't seem to be holding up as well as they would like, particularly because bread crumbs don't leave you directly to 30 foreign bank accounts around the world. it's harder to get there. >> even a pardon from president trump to paul manafort might not be enough to keep him out of jail. even a pardon may not entirely be a get owl of jail free card. there are a host of
system. and then the other reason, katie, that i would suggest might impact paul manafort's thinking about whether he wants to flip and provide information to bob mueller, he would also be providing information about russian oligarchs. we know the judge doesn't like that word. but what have we seen russia do when somebody crosses them? we have seen poisoning in the u.k. and i think paul manafort could legit have concerns for his safety. >> so manafort's trial is about financial crimes, but it is part of a larger russia investigation. one of the more ridiculous seeming tentacles we have news on today, the manhattan madam, kristin davis, the woman charged in the elliot spitzer can sdsca
many years ago has spoken to mueller's team. this is a long-time friend and associate of mine. i am the god father to her two-year-old son. she knows nothing about alleged russian collusion or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election, which i thought was the subject of this probe. i understand she appeared voluntarily. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. another stone aid has been ordered to speak with robert mueller. this man was trying to not speak with him. one of his aids was trying to say that the special counsel's probe was too wide and he shouldn't have to follow a subpoena. well, a court has testified or has ruled that he should have to talk to robert mueller and he should do so quickly. harry, what are these two people -- how do they have
anything to do with this? and what does this mean for roger stone? >> yeah. it is all about stone. look, the madam is a -- they're a colorful couple. but it is because of their long-standing friendship they are zeroing in on stone. b miller is kind of two-stone as gates was to manafort. he's the real right-hand man. he offered this constitutional argument, which is a real loser, basically saying mueller has no authority to do anything, the same thing manafort tried in edva. he will have some real information to provide. but the main thing it shows is that the sights are really locked in on stone, which should come as no surprise because this recent indictment of the gru folks in russia actually didn't name him because doj policy but identified him in paragraph 44 as someone who had consorted
with him. so mueller is obviously in trying to stitch up russia and the u.s. looking very hard at stone. >> and whether or not stone was a potential back channel. julia, i know from reporting have i done with others here that the witnesses that robert mueller is so far spoken to, they have been asked by mueller's team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. and what did roger stone know? what was he doing? did he really leave the campaign in 2015? stone says he quit. the trump team said he was fired. but did he really leave or was there some sort of unofficial role that he was playing behind the scenes? was he potential in contact with russia or wikileaks and feeding that material to donald trump? why did donald trump say, russia, if you are listening, find hillary clinton's e-mails. it seems like and sam nunberg
will tell you this, it seems like they are targeting stone and he could potentially be a lynch pin. is that making too broad an assumption? >> this is why i love your reporting on this. but it doesn't seem that hard to connect that we know from indictments that have already been brought forward by the special counsel that robert mueller is interested in and honing in on this network of russians that wanted to influence our campaign through social media. they wanted to hack into the dnc, hillary clinton e-mails and use that information to also influence our election. and a huge piece of this is social media and the work they did through cambridge, as well as the leaks of those hacks they just talked about through wikileaks. roger stone has a lot of tentacles in those different worlds. he was very closely tied to the trump campaign. we have to look across the way
they're painting these characters, the same way they are talking about paul manafort and trial. these are people who have been in republican poll tiitics for time. but they haven't been carrying the moral backbone of the party. they believe that the ends justify the means. i think just by the pointed questions that you have reported on, the interviews you have done, it is so obvious that mueller isn't just beating around the bush and seeing what might come out here, he is really targeting those essential questions. >> roger stone was not in mainstream politics. neither was paul manafort for that matter. yet, they somehow all managed to find donald trump's team. thanks for starting us off tonight, guys. >> thanks, katie. >> coming up, the washington post is reporting tonight that the alleged russian agent cozied up to a trump adviser the final weeks of the 2016 campaign.
the reporter who broke that story will join us right after this. and later, a federal judge says he will order the trump administration to take a drastic step to reunite those children with their parents. that's coming up. gas, bloating, constipation, and diarrhea
trump's orbit than previously known. she was in jail awaiting trial after she was charged with illegally trying to influence u.s. politics for the kremlin. tonight the washington post reports that she sought out interactions with j.d. gordon who served for six months as the trump campaign's director of national security before leaving in august 2016 and being offered a role in the trump transition effort. the two exchanged several e-mails in september and october 2016 culminating in an invitation from gordon to attend a concert by the rock band styx in washington. i can't make that up. gordon also invited butima to attend his birthday party. >> joining us is the reporter that broke this story. i'm sorry i am laughing but inviting her to a styx concert
and his birthday party is a funny story. here is what j.d. gordon told you tonight. from everything i have seen or read, everything i have read since her arrest last month, it seems that this is basically a sensationized bait click story trying to scheme republicans and nra members she reportedly encounters over the past few years. i wonder which prominent republican political figures she has not come across. i got to tell you from the photos i have seen, she has been standing next to some prominent political figures, including former presidential candidates long before donald trump got the nomination and prominent nra members. what makes the interaction with j.d. gordon so significant? >> well, i think part of it is his connection to the trump
campaign and it's clear from e-mails that were described to us that that was a key part of why she sort of sought out this interaction. she apparently met j.d. gordon at an event at the swiss embassy. she was with the republican operative she was apparently dating. and paul then sent an e-mail both to j.d. and to ms. butina after the event, reconnecting them and describing them to one another. and the way he described j.d. was to say this is a person who is very important in the trump transition. he's the kind of person that all the right people listen to his advice on international policy. so it did seem that the trump connection was part of why she was making contact with him. >> let me ask you more about the trump campaign foreign policy advisers. they were not visible on the campaign, not really.
people like george pop d, these names seem to come out of -- not come out of nowhere. the trump campaign was pressured to release a list of who was advising him. and at the time, considering that nobody was answering the phone and nobody made appearances, it felt like these people were just ran don people they put on a list and sent to reporters. now it looks like there is something more there. given that carter was somebody that the intelligence community had their eye on because of the interactions he was having with russians. the one who it's reported started this whole investigation because he was bragging to an australian diplomat in a london bar that russia had dirt on hillary clinton and now j.d. gordon linking these two seemingly separate investigations on a russian
influence campaign. >> yeah. i have done quite a bit of reporting on carter page and george p. in particular. one of the things that struck me about the two of them is they aggressively sought out the connection with the trump campaign at a time when, as you mentioned, the campaign was having a devil of a time finding figures they could taut as foreign policy advisers. we did a story once quoting trump adviser at the time saying, basically, anybody with a pulse was what they were looking for. >> yeah. >> and people like carter were people with a pulse that stepped forward and said choose us. >> the day i saw george's picture, i was taken aback. i did not expect to see somebody so young. harry, what stands out to you about this. >> speaking of so young, she's 29. he's 50. so we have again the sort of vanity of older man.
for historians of political scanda scandals, this is the exact ages of "monkey business time" and the whole kind of younger woman, you know, using older guys to get political influence. but what stands out to me is you said it, you know, what is the defense of j.d. gordon? >> i don't know if there is a prominent republican political official she hasn't met with. she's penetrating anywhere and everybody she can with the help of this republican operative and, as you say, a lover of keith erickson. this is not just one week little story and episode. but she really got around. >> harry, just really quickly, could this new information, they know about most things, but say they didn't know about it, is
this the sort of thing that could prompt them to call her in for questioning? >> well, she's arrested, so yeah. >> obviously. >> she will have enormous pressure on her. they'll talk to her. but there is some figures in the campaign in her wide circle, and they will zero in like gordon. we already knew of a couple others. that's what will interest them, the couple people from the campaign, the mass ck maskerade afterwards. >> a federal judge gave a reminder about the separation of the children from their parents and who is to blame for it. the fact is, there are over ninety-six hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding.
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many of these parents were removed from the country without their child. all of this is the result of the government separation and then inability and failure to track and reunite. and the reality is that for every parent who is not located, there will be a permanently or fanned child. that is 100% the responsibility of the administration. that same judge is now ordering the white house to designate a person or team within the administration to take control of the reunification process. joining us now is maria kumar and president of the center for american progress. she was also hillary clinton's policy director during the 2008 presidential campaign. there still isn't somebody in charge of this. the court is ordering them to get somebody in charge of the reuniting.
>> yes. i mean, we have been going through this saga for months. more importantly, these children have been going through this pain and misery at the hands of the trump administration for months. and every night that these children do not know where their parents are is an unaccepted atrocity. and the reality is ivanka trump said yesterday the family separation policy was a true low point for her. she is a senior adviser to the president of the united states. she works in the white house. i suggest if this is a low point for her and she actually cares about this she figures out, along with the white house chief of staff and everybody in the white house, how to address this problem. i mean, the reality that the government did not track the parents along with their children and have no simple way of identifying the parents even though they may have already been deported is an outrage and needs to be addressed not next
week, not tomorrow. it needs to be addressed now. >> consider this. there is no analysis of immigration data that finds parents were targeted. parents were targeted under this zero tolerance policy. this is from the transactional records access clearinghouse at syracuse university. they found that u.s. border authorities chose to prosecute adults with kids coming across the border by themselves. that same analysis found that only 32% of all immigrants caught crossing the border were charged with entering the u.s. illegally that month, an indication that it was not a blanket policy, but a targeted effort directed at parents with kids. let me repeat that, that they're finding from this analysis that the adults coming over alone were treated differently and better, it seems, than the adults coming over with kids. >> okay. this demonstrates that the trump administration was trying to
exact maximum pain to the people most vulnerable. the families traversed three to four countries to get here to give their children a better shot. and the trump administration, when they said they were going to do zero tolerance, it wasn't blanketed, it was phony. it was targeted at children. there was targeted at families. what they did is they turned around and put these children and babies in cages. there is not going to be a remedy in the near future to make sure these children are not only unified with their families but also receiving the medical attention because the trauma we're starting to hear is happening to these children. some of the children don't want to speak outloud. some of them follows their parents from room to room. some are so afraid they are not going to see their parents. and there are others that are plain angry. but the fact that the attorney general jeff sessions staired into the camera to the american people and said he was going to
establish a zero tolerance deterrence policy now only to find that it wasn't zero tolerance, that it was only aimed at the most vulnerable, at parents and children, should be a reminder to the american people of the cruelty of this administration. when ivanka trump looks at the american people and says this is something that he is painfully aware and believes that we should not be doing family separation, i agree 100% with her. she should be looking into the president's sites and see if they are going to do something. >> hold on, though. >> and this nonses that they're telling you, shame on them because the federal government's responsibility. >> hold on. i want to zero in on one point. the jeff sessions announced this policy in the spring. >> that's right. >> and then when the policy was backfiring and they were getting all of the negative headlines
and the pictures looked bad but the lives were actually much worse. >> right. >> they said over and over again this administration, others in the administration said this was not a policy. this was not a policy. this was not a policy. now to see this analysis not only was it a policy, but it was a policy that was aimed at parents, not just at anybody crossing the border but parents specifically. >> cruel intentioned. >> that's right. >> what's really curious is that one of the largest security companies that basically provided security guards in afghanistan for the different government detentions they had in that country under u.s. control, they received a government contract two weeks before this policy of family separation were announced. they were the ones that were basically housing children not in accommodating facilities. basically, they have discovered they were in the middle of phoenix. they were housing them in just regular office buildings that didn't have kitchens, that only
had one bathroom that held these toddlers for three and a half weeks without having them go outside. these individuals ended up getting over $200 million contract two weeks prior to this family separation policy. it is outrageous. >> remarkable. you are going to stay with us. hold on. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up, if you don't fully understand what happened in the meeting between donald trump and vladimir putin, you're not alone. neither does the director of national intelligence. stay with us. when my hot water heater failed, she was pregnant, in-laws were coming,
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the president of the united states is at odds with his top intel geps ligence officials. dni director dan coats, secretary of homeland security, national security adviser and nsa director addressed russian interference in the u.s. political system. their message was clear. russian attempts to interfere in the 2018 elections are real and ongoing. but just six hours later, six hours, donald trump contradicted his own intel dependence officials at a rally in pennsylvania. >> i had a great meeting with putin. we discussed everything. i had a great meeting. >> the russians are looking for every opportunity to continue their persuasive efforts to undermine our values. >> russia is very unhappy that trump won. that i can tell you.
but i got along great with putin. >> as i have said consistently, russia attempted to interfere with the last election and continues to engage and malign influence operations to this day. >> now, we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it is a hoax. >> we acknowledge the threat is real. it is continuing and we're doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. >> it is almost has if there are two administrations. one led by grown ups. the other led by a man who wants to be best buds with our attacker or as jennifer rue bin writes. no matter how hard they sidestep or try to put words in donald trump's mouth, trump never fails to embarrass them. he never accepted he got russian help and he is not about to make a personal all-out push to stop it in 2018. there are only 95 dayselections.
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meddling a prayerty. >> i'm not in a position to understand full y or talk about what happened at is evan mcm , mcmullen. let's start with you. what does it take for that sort of scene to happen on thursday, for all of those national security heads to come out to the press briefing room and address not just the reporters there but the general public? what does it take to get them to do that? >> well, i think, first of all you have these national security leaders who generally understand this kind of things needs to be communicated to the american people. the american people need to understand what kind of threat we're facing so that they can support our leaders as they hopefully do the right thing or elect leaders in congress specifically who will do the right thing, who will support sanctions that are strong enough to deter russia. but i think what's also
happening, my read of it anyway, as we get closer to the mid-terms and as it becomes clear to the american people that the russians did attack our election and did use the republican party especially through its candidate, donald trump, to make the attack and now the republican party is sort of lying down on the job or its elected leaders, i think there's got to be increasing pressure to show the american people that the administration on some level is trying to do the right thing. that's why i think those national security leaders end up on the podium in the pressroom, even though six hours later the president gets up and says it's a hoax. he's keeping them in the dark and brainwashed whereas the republicans who are concerned by donald trump's open betrayal of the country in helsinki are seeing, okay, part of the administration is doing the right thing. maybe i can still vote republican. >> do you think they're in the dark and brainwashed? >> i think it's time for us to start thinking about some of the
base being brainwashed. there's this qanon, this conspiracy theory. the conspiracy theories on the far right are growing and spreading and becoming less part of the fringe discourse and working their way into the main stream. it's becoming more of the case. and in my mind that's a piece of brainwashing. i mean we're talking about people existing in altuernative information environments that have no bearing on fact or reason. and that's where some of his base is. >> it is almost like there are two administration. one led by grown ups like those national security advisers you just saw, and the other one led by donald trump, a man who wants to bear hug the guy who attacked our democracy. >> yeah, i mean, just think about the fact that we had all those leaders of our intelligence community, a leader of the fbi, the dni, all walk
out and make the statements they did. and of course, it's not just their work. they are basing this on the work of hundreds if not thousands of intelligence people, you know, working under the cia, the fbi, et cetera, gathering intelligence about the threat our country faces right now. and then hours later donald trump continues with the language of a russian hoax. just weeks after vladimir putin said that he wanted trump to win and donald trump said that he basically believed vladimir putin over the people arrayed at the white house podium yesterday. and i think the reality of this is if you are concerned about the threat that exists from russia, not just what they've done in the past but what they are doing today and what they
will do in the future, you cannot count on the president of the united states. we have an extraordinary moment when there's really two administrations. there's the president trump himself and then the intelligence community, and they have really leaned up just as opposed to him on this fundamental issue. >> so the question needs to be asked. is the administration concerned about sending mixed messages to russia? here's what one of the strategic communications director told kristen walker. >> president trump last night at his rally said the russian investigation is a hoax. doesn't that undercut -- >> thought at all. i think we made it very clear the president last may in 2017 directed the administration to be tough and strengthen cyber security measures. >> are you concerned, though, it sends a mixed message to russia? >> no, not at all. the only one sending mixed messages are the media. >> it's only the media. >> i mean, this is the talking point every single day which is we're all supposed to just
basically ignore what donald trump says. sarah huckabee sanders says this on occasion, the white house strategy communications strategy is to just actually -- the broad public except for their base is supposed to ignore what the president says, but his base is supposed to take everything he says literally. i mean, it's ridiculous and outrageous that we have this kind of thingae about, you know, not a partisan battle or just two sides of a debate on taxes or something. this is about america's national security. this is about our elections and democracy. and the fact that the white house, the president of the united states just cannot make the statement about the threat that exists from russia is ridiculous and shows that he's got -- it makes people think they have something on him. >> let me ask this question of you, evan. can our intelligence community, can our agencies effectively push back against russian
interference, the cyber warfare if the president's not onboard? >> they can do a lot, but they can't do enough. what really needs to happen here is deterrence. because we're never going to be able to block every cyber intrusion and disinformation campaign. you just can't do it, so you've to deter. and deterrence the best vehicle for that is through sanctions. that has to be done by congress, which is why the mid-terms are so critical. >> evan mcmullen, good to see you. tonight's "last word" is next.
Honey-badger-dont-careBitCopy-fightThingHoney-badgerVoiceImpressionThe-voiceBatonLove-people-havent-heardRobert-muellerPresidentAnalysis and discussion of the day's top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence O'Donnell.
jeopardy for the president. we're learning more about the trump-mueller relationship. the day after he interviewed robert mueller to be the director of the fbi, trump was in an oval office meeting when an aid announced that mueller had been appointed the special counsel to investigate the trump campaign. trump and attorney general jeff session, who attended both meetings were blind sided according to a person familiar with both meetings. the president immediately blasted sessions for not knowing the announcement was coming and challenged how the person he just interviewed for the fbi job and who trump had said he had a past dispute with over golf club fees could now be investigating him, the person said. now, we don't know if trump had turned down mueller for the fbi job at this point. but we do know that christopher wrey wasn't named until a month after.
read on the man, he knew he would also be in trouble. we look back the last summer and the number of times we were on sessions watch and the people i talked to at the justice department said he will hang on by his fingernails for this job. he thought this was his last role in politics. it is one he wanted to get to for a long time. his former law enforcement days are some of the days he holds most dearly. and he saw this as his last big role and really his place to be able to push through a lot of the decisions, a lot of these policies on immigration and the like. he was going to hold on to it for as long as he could. he did see this would be the thing that would fracture the relationship. it has for some time. we saw the president attack jeff sessions just this week. >> harry, the president obviously doesn't like robert
>> let's talk about manafort for a second and go back to julia one more time. julia, manafort's trial has just now ended its first week. it focussed a lot around what we heard from the accountant today talking about how she knew she was filing incorrect taxes. but also there was that $15,000 ostrich coat, that bomber jacket. the prosecution is very clearly trying to paint manafort as a big spender that didn't care about cheating the government and the american people in order to furnish his very lavish lifestyle. how is the defense doing? >> not as well, katie. right now we're seeing a list of prosecution witnesses. they lay out a pattern of who paul manafort is. he spent a will the of money on his lifestyle and is so desperate to hang on to that lifestyle that he was willing to exaggerate his income in order to get bank loans and then deflate his income in order to get a deal on taxes.
he didn't care who he took down in the process and he didn't care what kind of dirty characters he had to work with in order to get there. we will see now going forward is the defense is going to try again and again to discredit witnesses, particularly gates. we now know he will testify. the prosecution said yesterday they have ever reason to bring him forward. they want to paint him as the lynch pin in the prosecution's argument and they want to show he is not someone that can be trusted. for those reasons we actually believe that the prosecution won't wait until the end to bring up rick gates. may bring him up early next week so he isn't the last thing in jurors minds when they go to deliberate. another thing that i don't think went over very well judging by how brief their questions were is they wanted to show that paul manafort had left plenty of bread crumbs for anyone that might want to look into this.
that with his first accountant who has not gotten immunity because he didn't do anything wrong. he refused to lie for paul manafort. he was basically able to say, yes, i knew they were working with foreign people, but i didn't know he had foreign bank accounts. the defense wants to say there were plenty of bread crumbs if his accountant didn't know it, and this is important, and if the irs didn't want to do an audit and bring a civil case against paul manafort, why all these years later is a justice department bringing a serious criminal case? but it doesn't seem to be holding up as well as they would like, particularly because bread crumbs don't leave you directly to 30 foreign bank accounts around the world. it's harder to get there. >> even a pardon from president trump to paul manafort might not be enough to keep him out of jail. even a pardon may not entirely be a get owl of jail free card. there are a host of
complications involved. the president cannot pardon state charges. glen, there is a lot of talk. we talked about this earlier today, about why in the world manafort hasn't made a plea deal. you posture that maybe a plea deal wasn't offered. >> i have to say, katie, it wouldn't surprise me if bob mueller never extended a plea offer to paul manafort. why would that be? for two reasons. first of all, rick gates is already a cooperating witness. we know that rick gates' information is somewhat duplicative of the information that paul manafort could provide to the prosecutors. and then the other factor that i think weighs into the calculus when we look at whether we want to actually do business with a defendant and bring him into our stable of cooperators, who is that person and how long has he
been engaged in illegality. as we all came to learn in the run-up to these trials, he actually reached out and touched, so to speak, some witnesses and tried to tamper with their testimony. now, if you play that out, if we as prosecutors decided to bring manafort into the cooperator's stable and then we put him on the stand, he would be cross examined up and down on things like, well, wait a minute, mr. manafort, you tried to get witnesses to lie for you to get you out of trouble. you tried to pervert and subvert the criminal justice system. and now you want the jury to believe you are not going to sit up there and lie to try to save your own skin? you know, the cooperator's stink tends to rub off on the prosecutors when you bring somebody on board that has engaged in that kind of conduct
that really strikes at the very heart of the criminal justice system. and then the other reason, katie, that i would suggest might impact paul manafort's thinking about whether he wants to flip and provide information to bob mueller, he would also be providing information about russian oligarchs. we know the judge doesn't like that word. but what have we seen russia do when somebody crosses them? we have seen poisoning in the u.k. and i think paul manafort could legit have concerns for his safety. >> so manafort's trial is about financial crimes, but it is part of a larger russia investigation. one of the more ridiculous seeming tentacles we have news on today, the manhattan madam, kristin davis, the woman charged in the elliot spitzer scandal
many years ago has spoken to mueller's team. this is a long-time friend and associate of mine. i am the god father to her two-year-old son. she knows nothing about alleged russian collusion or any other impropriety related to the 2016 election, which i thought was the subject of this probe. i understand she appeared voluntarily. i am highly confident she will testify truthfully if called upon to do so. another stone aid has been ordered to speak with robert mueller. this man was trying to not speak with him. one of his aids was trying to say that the special counsel's
probe was too wide and he shouldn't have to follow a subpoena. well, a court has testified or has ruled that he should have to talk to robert mueller and he should do so quickly. harry, what are these two people -- how do they have anything to do with this? and what does this mean for roger stone? >> yeah. it is all about stone. look, the madam is a -- they're a colorful couple. but it is because of their long-standing friendship they are zeroing in on stone. miller is kind of two-stone as gates was to manafort. he's the real right-hand man. he offered this constitutional argument, which is a real loser, basically saying mueller has no authority to do anything, the same thing manafort tried in edva. he will have some real information to provide. but the main thing it shows is that the sights are really locked in on stone, which should come as no surprise because this recent indictment of the gru folks in russia actually didn't name him because doj policy but identified him in paragraph 44 as someone who had consorted
with him. so mueller is obviously in trying to stitch up russia and the u.s. looking very hard at stone. >> and whether or not stone was a potential back channel. julia, i know from reporting have i done with others here that the witnesses that robert mueller is so far spoken to, they have been asked by mueller's team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. and what did roger stone know? what was he doing? did he really leave the campaign in 2015? stone says he quit. the trump team said he was fired. but did he really leave or was there some sort of unofficial role that he was playing behind the scenes? was he potential in contact with russia or wikileaks and feeding that material to donald trump? why did donald trump say,
russia, if you are listening, find hillary clinton's e-mails. it seems like and sam nunberg will tell you this, it seems like they are targeting stone and he could potentially be a lynch pin. is that making too broad an assumption? >> this is why i love your reporting on this. but it doesn't seem that hard to connect that we know from indictments that have already been brought forward by the special counsel that robert mueller is interested in and honing in on this network of russians that wanted to influence our campaign through social media. they wanted to hack into the dnc, hillary clinton e-mails and use that information to also influence our election. and a huge piece of this is social media and the work they did through cambridge, as well
as the leaks of those hacks they just talked about through wikileaks. roger stone has a lot of tentacles in those different worlds. he was very closely tied to the trump campaign. we have to look across the way they're painting these characters, the same way they are talking about paul manafort and trial. these are people who have been in republican politics for some time. but they haven't been carrying the moral backbone of the party. they believe that the ends justify the means. i think just by the pointed questions that you have reported on, the interviews you have done, it is so obvious that mueller isn't just beating around the bush and seeing what might come out here, he is really targeting those essential questions. >> roger stone was not in mainstream politics. neither was paul manafort for that matter. yet, they somehow all managed to find donald trump's team. thanks for starting us off tonight, guys. >> thanks, katie. >> coming up, the washington post is reporting tonight that
the alleged russian agent cozied up to a trump adviser the final weeks of the 2016 campaign. the reporter who broke that story will join us right after this. and later, a federal judge says he will order the trump administration to take a drastic step to reunite those children with their parents. that's coming up. because you've made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. & she can talk to him, & yes... atta, boy. some people assign genders to machines. and you can be sure you won't have any problems. except for the daily theft of your danish. not cool! at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & this shipment will be delivered...
alleged russian agent was in closer contact with president trump's orbit than previously known. she was in jail awaiting trial after she was charged with illegally trying to influence u.s. politics for the kremlin. tonight the washington post reports that she sought out interactions with j.d. gordon who served for six months as the trump campaign's director of national security before leaving in august 2016 and being offered a role in the trump transition effort. the two exchanged several e-mails in september and october 2016 culminating in an invitation from gordon to attend a concert by the rock band styx in washington. i can't make that up. gordon also invited butima to attend his birthday party. >> joining us is the reporter that broke this story. i'm sorry i am laughing but
inviting her to a styx concert and his birthday party is a funny story. here is what j.d. gordon told you tonight. from everything i have seen or read, everything i have read since her arrest last month, it seems that this is basically a sensationized bait click story trying to scheme republicans and nra members she reportedly encounters over the past few years. i wonder which prominent republican political figures she has not come across. i got to tell you from the photos i have seen, she has been standing next to some prominent political figures, including former presidential candidates long before donald trump got the nomination and prominent nra members. what makes the interaction with
j.d. gordon so significant? >> well, i think part of it is his connection to the trump campaign and it's clear from e-mails that were described to us that that was a key part of why she sort of sought out this interaction. she apparently met j.d. gordon at an event at the swiss embassy. she was with the republican operative she was apparently dating. and paul then sent an e-mail both to j.d. and to ms. butina after the event, reconnecting them and describing them to one another. and the way he described j.d. was to say this is a person who is very important in the trump transition. he's the kind of person that all the right people listen to his advice on international policy. so it did seem that the trump connection was part of why she was making contact with him. >> let me ask you more about the
trump campaign foreign policy advisers. they were not visible on the campaign, not really. people like george pop, these names seem to come out of -- not come out of nowhere. the trump campaign was pressured to release a list of who was advising him. and at the time, considering that nobody was answering the phone and nobody made appearances, it felt like these people were just ran don people they put on a list and sent to reporters. now it looks like there is something more there. given that carter was somebody
that the intelligence community had their eye on because of the interactions he was having with russians. the one who it's reported started this whole investigation because he was bragging to an australian diplomat in a london bar that russia had dirt on hillary clinton and now j.d. gordon linking these two seemingly separate investigations on a russian influence campaign. >> yeah. i have done quite a bit of reporting on carter page and george p. in particular. one of the things that struck me about the two of them is they aggressively sought out the connection with the trump campaign at a time when, as you mentioned, the campaign was having a devil of a time finding figures they could taut as foreign policy advisers. we did a story once quoting trump adviser at the time saying, basically, anybody with a pulse was what they were looking for. >> yeah. >> and people like carter were people with a pulse that stepped forward and said choose us. >> the day i saw george's picture, i was taken aback. i did not expect to see somebody so young. harry, what stands out to you about this. >> speaking of so young, she's
29. he's 50. so we have again the sort of vanity of older man. for historians of political scandals, this is the exact ages of "monkey business time" and the whole kind of younger woman, you know, using older guys to get political influence. but what stands out to me is you said it, you know, what is the defense of j.d. gordon? >> i don't know if there is a prominent republican political official she hasn't met with. she's penetrating anywhere and everybody she can with the help of this republican operative and, as you say, a lover of keith erickson. this is not just one week little story and episode. but she really got around. >> harry, just really quickly, could this new information, they know about most things, but say they didn't know about it, is this the sort of thing that
could prompt them to call her in for questioning? >> well, she's arrested, so yeah. >> obviously. >> she will have enormous pressure on her. they'll talk to her. but there is some figures in the campaign in her wide circle, and they will zero in like gordon. we already knew of a couple others. that's what will interest them, the couple people from the campaign, the maskerade party afterwards. >> a federal judge gave a reminder about the separation of the children from their parents and who is to blame for it.
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hundreds of missing parents, saying they have more resources to track them down. more resources than the federal government. but today a federal judge rejected that proposal and blasted the government's efforts to reunite these families as unacceptable. many of these parents were removed from the country without their child. all of this is the result of the government separation and then inability and failure to track and reunite. and the reality is that for every parent who is not located, there will be a permanently or fanned child. that is 100% the responsibility of the administration. that same judge is now ordering the white house to designate a person or team within the administration to take control of the reunification process. joining us now is maria kumar and president of the center for american progress. she was also hillary clinton's policy director during the 2008 presidential campaign. there still isn't somebody in charge of this. the court is ordering them to
get somebody in charge of the reuniting. >> yes. i mean, we have been going through this saga for months. more importantly, these children have been going through this pain and misery at the hands of the trump administration for months. and every night that these children do not know where their parents are is an unaccepted atrocity. and the reality is ivanka trump said yesterday the family separation policy was a true low point for her. she is a senior adviser to the president of the united states. she works in the white house. i suggest if this is a low point for her and she actually cares about this she figures out, along with the white house chief of staff and everybody in the white house, how to address this problem. i mean, the reality that the government did not track the parents along with their children and have no simple way of identifying the parents even though they may have already
been deported is an outrage and needs to be addressed not next week, not tomorrow. it needs to be addressed now. >> consider this. there is no analysis of immigration data that finds parents were targeted. parents were targeted under this zero tolerance policy. this is from the transactional records access clearinghouse at syracuse university. they found that u.s. border authorities chose to prosecute adults with kids coming across the border by themselves. that same analysis found that only 32% of all immigrants caught crossing the border were charged with entering the u.s. illegally that month, an indication that it was not a blanket policy, but a targeted effort directed at parents with kids. let me repeat that, that they're finding from this analysis that the adults coming over alone were treated differently and better, it seems, than the
adults coming over with kids. >> okay. this demonstrates that the trump administration was trying to exact maximum pain to the people most vulnerable. the families traversed three to four countries to get here to give their children a better shot. and the trump administration, when they said they were going to do zero tolerance, it wasn't blanketed, it was phony. it was targeted at children. there was targeted at families. what they did is they turned around and put these children and babies in cages. there is not going to be a remedy in the near future to make sure these children are not only unified with their families but also receiving the medical attention because the trauma we're starting to hear is happening to these children. some of the children don't want to speak outloud. some of them follows their parents from room to room. some are so afraid they are not going to see their parents. and there are others that are plain angry. but the fact that the attorney general jeff sessions staired into the camera to the american
people and said he was going to establish a zero tolerance deterrence policy now only to find that it wasn't zero tolerance, that it was only aimed at the most vulnerable, at parents and children, should be a reminder to the american people of the cruelty of this administration. when ivanka trump looks at the american people and says this is something that he is painfully aware and believes that we should not be doing family separation, i agree 100% with her. she should be looking into the president's sites and see if they are going to do something. >> hold on, though. >> and this nonses that they're telling you, shame on them because the federal government's responsibility. >> hold on. i want to zero in on one point. the jeff sessions announced this policy in the spring.
>> that's right. >> and then when the policy was backfiring and they were getting all of the negative headlines and the pictures looked bad but the lives were actually much worse. >> right. >> they said over and over again this administration, others in the administration said this was not a policy. this was not a policy. this was not a policy. now to see this analysis not only was it a policy, but it was a policy that was aimed at parents, not just at anybody crossing the border but parents specifically. >> cruel intentioned. >> that's right. >> what's really curious is that one of the largest security companies that basically provided security guards in afghanistan for the different government detentions they had in that country under u.s. control, they received a government contract two weeks before this policy of family separation were announced. they were the ones that were basically housing children not in accommodating facilities. basically, they have discovered they were in the middle of
phoenix. they were housing them in just regular office buildings that didn't have kitchens, that only had one bathroom that held these toddlers for three and a half weeks without having them go outside. these individuals ended up getting over $200 million contract two weeks prior to this family separation policy. it is outrageous. >> remarkable. you are going to stay with us. hold on. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up, if you don't fully understand what happened in the meeting between donald trump and vladimir putin, you're not alone. neither does the director of national intelligence. stay with us.
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the president of the united states is at odds with his top intelligence officials. dni director dan coats, secretary of homeland security, national security adviser and nsa director addressed russian interference in the u.s. political system. their message was clear. russian attempts to interfere in the 2018 elections are real and ongoing. but just six hours later, six hours, donald trump contradicted his own intel dependence officials at a rally in pennsylvania. >> i had a great meeting with putin.
we discussed everything. i had a great meeting. >> the russians are looking for every opportunity to continue their persuasive efforts to undermine our values. >> russia is very unhappy that trump won. that i can tell you. but i got along great with putin. >> as i have said consistently, russia attempted to interfere with the last election and continues to engage and malign influence operations to this day. >> now, we're being hindered by the russian hoax. it is a hoax. >> we acknowledge the threat is real. it is continuing and we're doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. >> it is almost has if there are
two administrations. one led by grown ups. the other led by a man who wants to be best buds with our attacker or as jennifer rue bin writes. no matter how hard they sidestep or try to put words in donald trump's mouth, trump never fails to embarrass them. he never accepted he got russian help and he is not about to make a personal all-out push to stop it in 2018. there are only 95 dayselections. can they work together to ensure fair elections without the help of the commander in chief, without the help of the president? we'll discuss that next.
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>> i'm not in a position to understand fully or talk about what happened at is evan mcmullen. let's start with you. what does it take for that sort of scene to happen on thursday, for all of those national security heads to come out to the press briefing room and address not just the reporters there but the general public? what does it take to get them to do that? >> well, i think, first of all you have these national security leaders who generally understand this kind of things needs to be communicated to the american people. the american people need to understand what kind of threat we're facing so that they can support our leaders as they hopefully do the right thing or elect leaders in congress specifically who will do the right thing, who will support
sanctions that are strong enough to deter russia. but i think what's also happening, my read of it anyway, as we get closer to the mid-terms and as it becomes clear to the american people that the russians did attack our election and did use the republican party especially through its candidate, donald trump, to make the attack and now the republican party is sort of lying down on the job or its elected leaders, i think there's got to be increasing pressure to show the american people that the administration on some level is trying to do the right thing. that's why i think those national security leaders end up on the podium in the pressroom, even though six hours later the president gets up and says it's a hoax. he's keeping them in the dark and brainwashed whereas the republicans who are concerned by donald trump's open betrayal of the country in helsinki are seeing, okay, part of the administration is doing the right thing. maybe i can still vote
republican. >> do you think they're in the dark and brainwashed? >> i think it's time for us to start thinking about some of the base being brainwashed. there's this qanon, this conspiracy theory. the conspiracy theories on the far right are growing and spreading and becoming less part of the fringe discourse and working their way into the main stream. it's becoming more of the case. and in my mind that's a piece of brainwashing. i mean we're talking about people existing in alternative information environments that have no bearing on fact or reason. and that's where some of his base is. >> it is almost like there are two administration. one led by grown ups like those national security advisers you just saw, and the other one led by donald trump, a man who wants to bear hug the guy who attacked our democracy. >> yeah, i mean, just think
about the fact that we had all those leaders of our intelligence community, a leader of the fbi, the dni, all walk out and make the statements they did. and of course, it's not just their work. they are basing this on the work of hundreds if not thousands of intelligence people, you know, working under the cia, the fbi, et cetera, gathering intelligence about the threat our country faces right now. and then hours later donald trump continues with the language of a russian hoax. just weeks after vladimir putin said that he wanted trump to win and donald trump said that he basically believed vladimir putin over the people arrayed at the white house podium yesterday. and i think the reality of this
is if you are concerned about the threat that exists from russia, not just what they've done in the past but what they are doing today and what they will do in the future, you cannot count on the president of the united states. we have an extraordinary moment when there's really two administrations. there's the president trump himself and then the intelligence community, and they have really leaned up just as opposed to him on this fundamental issue. >> so the question needs to be asked. is the administration concerned about sending mixed messages to russia? here's what one of the strategic communications director told kristen walker. >> president trump last night at his rally said the russian investigation is a hoax. doesn't that undercut -- >> thought at all. i think we made it very clear the president last may in 2017 directed the administration to be tough and strengthen cyber security measures. >> are you concerned, though, it sends a mixed message to russia? >> no, not at all. the only one sending mixed
messages are the media. >> it's only the media. >> i mean, this is the talking point every single day which is we're all supposed to just basically ignore what donald trump says. sarah huckabee sanders says this on occasion, the white house strategy communications strategy is to just actually -- the broad public except for their base is supposed to ignore what the president says, but his base is supposed to take everything he says literally. i mean, it's ridiculous and outrageous that we have this kind of thingae about, you know, not a partisan battle or just two sides of a debate on taxes or something. this is about america's national security. this is about our elections and democracy. and the fact that the white house, the president of the united states just cannot make the statement about the threat that exists from russia is ridiculous and shows that he's got -- it makes people think they have something on him. >> let me ask this question of you, evan.
can our intelligence community, can our agencies effectively push back against russian interference, the cyber warfare if the president's not onboard? >> they can do a lot, but they can't do enough. what really needs to happen here is deterrence. because we're never going to be able to block every cyber intrusion and disinformation campaign. you just can't do it, so you've to deter. and deterrence the best vehicle for that is through sanctions. that has to be done by congress, which is why the mid-terms are so critical. >> evan mcmullen, good to see get lost in the ocean ♪ ♪seven billion swimmers man ♪i'm going through the motions ♪sent up a flare need love and devotion♪ ♪trade it for some faces that i'll never know notion♪ ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪
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ThingHoney-badgerExpectationsImpressionThe-voiceLove-people-havent-heardHoney-badger-dont-carePersonalityGuestCareWorldKatieAnalysis and discussion of the day's top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence O'Donnell.
Analysis and discussion of the day's top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence O'Donnell.
will decide if the president is likely to sit with robert mueller for an interview while at bedminster. but it might not be donald trump's decision to make, admitting that trump might be, quote, forced to testify on matters that occurred before he took office and that might mean real legal jeopardy for the president. that admission comes as we are learning new details about the trump mayor relationship. bloomberg reports that the day after he interviewed robert mueller to be the deputy director of the fbi trump was in an office meeting when it was announced that mueller was announced to be the lead investigator of the campaign. trump and attorney general jeff session were blind sided according to a person familiar with both meetings. trump blasted session for not knowing the announcement was coming and how he didn't know
the person he just interviewed and who the president said he had a past dispute with over golf club fees could be now investigating him, he said. we don't know if trump turned down mueller for the fbi job at this point, but christopher wray wasn't named to be director until a month after mueller's appointment on counsel. it's likely mueller was in the running when he was named to investigate the trump team. bloomberg notes, from that moment on, trump campaigned to aides about a perceived grudge. of course, that grudge has likely been exacerbated by a criminal trial of the former campaign chairman, paul manafort. today we heard from the first five witnesses who were granted immunity by prosecutors. an accountant described how
manafort's partner rick gates asked accountants to modify the amount of loans so manafort it would have pay less in taxes. he was trying to reduce income. it was inappropriate. la porta took -- la porta testified that manafort asked her as late as august 2016, his last month as chair of the campaign to falsify numbers related to his company's profits. rick gates, mueller's star witness is set to testify any day now. he has already pleaded guilty and is cooperating with prosecutors. kristen davis, the infamous manhattan madam met with a member of mueller's team. it's believed she met with mueller because of her close
ties to another trump confidant roger stone. only time will tell what if anything will happen in this trump trip to bedminster, we should be in for an unexpectedly evidentful supper vacation. joining us now, julia ansly. he was not courtroom today. deputy assistant attorney general under president clinton and glen kurshne rerkr. jeff sessions in the room with the president when he was told robert mueller was going to be special counsel. according to bloomberg news, jeff session offered his resignation in that moment. >> that's right. it for jeff sessions the idea that robert mueller had been aopponented was obvious right there, that it was because he
recused himself from this investigation that third down been allowed to happen, that rod rosenstein was able to appoint the special counsel. of course the way we see it, the logical way to see it was the appointment of robert mueller was because of the firing of jim comey. the fs the president's decision, not jeff sessions' decision to recuse himself that triggers this. he knew he would also be in trouble. we look back at last summer it can number of times we were on sessions' watch, thinking he was about to lose his job. the people i spoke to at the justice department said he will hang on by his fingernails to have this job. he thinks this is his last roll in politics. he's wanted it for a long time. we know his last law enforcement days are something he holds deerly, more than his time in the senate. he saw this a the chance to push
through decisions, policies on immigration and the like and he was going to hold on to it for as long as he can, but he did say this was going to be the thing to fracture the relationship. it has for some time. we saw the president attack jeff sessions just this week. >> harry, the president obviously doesn't like robert mueller. we have known that for some time. he tweets about him. he does bring up what he perceives as a bias, that he almost offered him the fbi job. he had a dispute over fees at one of his clubs. could either of those things be considered bias? >> so no, we already know they're not considered because the doj gave him a clean bill of health, but it's interesting because as julia says, it's the second mueller is appointed that sessions realizes, uh-oh, and that's before the make-way charges of 13 angry democrats et cetera.
who is bob mueller in that second you have the revelation he's aopponented? he's the best, most dogged, methodical, honest prosecutor of his generation. that's who he is then and right away the problem with him is not bias, it's effectiveness, which has turned out, in fact, on the problem. >> let's look at manafort and go back to julia one more time. julia, manafort's trial ended its first week. folked a lot on what we heard from the accountant, knew she was filing incorrect taxes. but also manafort's spending. there was the $15,000 ostrich coat, the bomber jacket. the prosecution is very clearly trying to paint manafort as a big spender who didn't care about cheating the government and the american people in order to furnish his very lavish lifestyle. how is the defense doing? >> not as well. right now we are seeing a list
of prosecution witnesses who have all been picked for a particular reason. they lay out a pattern and a narrative of who paul manafort is. he's someone who spent a lot of money on his lifestyle and was so desperate to hang on to that lifestyle that he was willing to exaggerate his lifestyle to get bang loans and then deflate it to get taxes. he didn't care who he took down in the process or what dirty characters head to work with to get there. what we'll see going forward is the defense is going to try again and again to discredit witnesses, particularly rick gates. we now know he will testify. the prosecution said yesterday they have every reason to bring him forward and intend on doing sophomore they want to paint rick gates as the lynch pin in the prosecution's argument and show he's not someone who can be trusted. for those reasons we want to
believe the prosecution won't wait until the end to bring up rick gates so he's not the last thing in jurors' mind. another thing today that i don't think went over well, judging by how brief their questions for in the prosecution was they wanted to show paul manafort left plenty of bread crumbs for anyone that wanted to look into this. his first accountant was able to say, yes, i knew they were working with foreign people, but i didn't know he had foreign bank accounts. the defense wants to say there were plenty of bread crumbs and if his accountant didn't know it -- this is important because i think it will come up later -- in the irs didn't want to do a civil suit -- why is the court bringing up a serious case? doesn't seem to be holding up as
well as they like, simply because bread crumbs don't lead you to 34 bank accounts across the world. it's a little harder to get there. >> vox reports that even a pardon from president trump to paul manafort might not be enough to keep him out of jail. even a pardon may not entirely be a get off jail free card. there are a host of complications involve, including potential state charges for manafort. the president cannot pardon state charges. glen, there is a lot of talk and we talked about this earlier today about why in the world manafort hasn't made a plea deal you posture that one wasn't offered. >> it wouldn't surprise me if bob mueller never extended a plea offer to paul manafort. why would that be? two reasons. first of all, rick gates is already a cooperating witness nl we know his information the
dup duply kative of the information paul manafort provided to the prosecutors. the other factor that weighs into the calculus of believe it or not we want to do business -- who is that person and how long as he been engage in the illegality. paul manafort seems to have lived a long life of at least financial illegality. as we learned, in the run-up to these trials he reached out and touched, so to speak, some witnesses and tried to tamper with their testimony. if you play that out, if we as prosecutors try to bring manafort in the prosecutors' stable and put him on the stand, he would be cross examined up and down about, wait a minute, you tried to get witnesses to lie for you to get you out of
trouble. you tried to pervert and subvert the criminal justice system and now you want to jury to believe you're not going to sit up there and and lie to try to save your own skin? the cooperator stink tends to rub off on the prosecutors when you bring somebody on board that has engaged in that kind of conduct that strikes at the heart of criminal justice system. the other reason, katy, i would suggest might impact paul manafort's decision to flip and provide information to bob mueller, he would also be providing information about russian oligarchs. we know judge ellis doesn't like that word. what have we seen russia do when somebody crosses them? we have seen poisonings in the uk. i think paul manafort could have concern for his safety or the safety of his family members if
he decided to flip against russia. >> manafort's trial is really just about financial crimes but it is part of the larger russian investigation. there's an of tentacles. in one of the more ridiculous seeming tentacles we found today, the manhattan madam, kristen davis, the woman charged in the elliot spitzer scandal years ago was subpoenaed by mueller's team. we have now learned today that she has spoken toe mueller's team. roger stone issued a statement about this. kristin davis is a long friend of mine. i'm the godfather to her 2-year-old son. she knows nothing about russian collusion or wikileaks or any other thing.
also this news -- washington post reports that another stone aide has been ordered to speak with robert mueller. this man was trying to not speak with him. one of his aides, was trying to say the special counsel as probe was too wide and he shouldn't have to follow a subpoena. the court ruled he should have to talk to robert mueller and should do so quickly. harry, these two people, what do they have anything to do with this and what does it have anything to do with roger stone? >> it's all about roger stone. they're a colorful could be, aren't they? they're zeroing in on stone and she's one of many people they want to talk to, the others haven't been madams. miller is to stone as gates was to manafort. he's the right hand man. he offered the constitutional argument, which was a loser
saying mueller has no ability to did anything. the same thing manafort tried. he lost. he's going to have some real information to provide. the main thing it shows is that the sights are really locked in on stone, which should come as know surprise because this recent indictment of the gru folks in russia actually didn't name him because of doj policy but identified him in paragraph 44 as someone who had consorted with him. so mueller is obviously trying to stitch up russia and the u.s. looking very hard at stone. >> and whether or not stone was a potential back channel. julia, i know from reporting i did with carol lee and others here that the witnesses that robert mueller so far has spoken to they have been asked by mueller's team pretty pointed questions about roger stone. what did roger stone any? what was he doing? did he really leave the campaign in 2015?
stone says he quit. the trump team said he was fired. did he really leave or was there some unofficial role he was playing behind the scenes? was he potentially in contact with russia or wikileaks and feeding that material to donald trump? why did donald trump say on july 27, 2016, russia, if you're listening find hillary clinton's e-mails? it seems like -- sam nunberg will tell you this. he sat in front of the special counsel. seem like they're targeting roger stone and he could potentially be a lynch pin. is that saying too much? is that making too broad an assumption? >> katy, this why i love reporting with you. doesn't seem that hard to connect that by indictments that have been brought forward by the special counsel that robert mueller is honing in on this network of russians that wanted to influence our campaign through social media, that they
wanted to hack into the dnc, hillary clinton e-mails and also use that information to influence our election. a huge piece of this is social media and the work they did through cambridge analytica and the leaks of those facts through wikileaks. we know roger stone has a lot of tentacles in those worlds. he's done a hot of work in england. he's tied to the trump campaign. we have to look carefully at the way they're painting these characters. these are people who have been in republican politics for a long time. these aren't the people who were carrying the moral backbone of the party. they were really in it. he believe the ends justify the means. i think by the pointed questions you have reported on, the interviews you have done with sam nunberg it's so obvious mueller is really targeting those essential questions. >> roger stone was not in
mainstream politics, neither was sam nunberg, neither was paul manafort yet they managed to find donald trump's team. was it because there was no one else available? thanks for starting us off tonight, guys. coming up, the "washington post" is alleging mariia butina cozies up to a trump adviser weeks after the campaign. later, a federal judge says he will order the trump administration to take a drastic step to reunite those children with their parents. that's coming up. friends, colleagues, gathered here are the world's finest insurance experts. rodney -- mastermind of discounts like safe driver, paperless. the list goes on. how about a discount for long lists? gold. mara, you save our customers hundreds for switching almost effortlessly. it's a gift. and jamie.
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2016, culminating in gordon attending a rock concert by the band styx. gordon also invited butina to attend his birthday party. roz lynn, i'm sorry i'm laughing but inviting her to an styx party his birthday party is funny. here's what j.d. gordon told you. from everything i've read since her arrest last month, it seems that mariia butina's saga is a sensationalized click bait story meant to smear a steady stream of republicans and nra members she reportedly encountered over
the past few years. since she networked so often i wonder which prominent republican figures she has not come across. i got to tell you from the photos of butina, she has beenened staing next to prominent figures, including presidential candidates long before donald trump got the nomination and prominent nra members. what makes the interaction with j.d. gordon so important? >> part of it is his connection to the trump campaign, and it's clear from e-mails that are described to us that was a key part of why she sort of sought out this interaction. she apparently med j.d. gordon at an event at the swiss embassy. he was with paul eriksen the russian operative she was dating. paul then sebt nt an e-mail to .
and miss butina after the event. paul described j.d. by saying he's an important person in the trump administration. he's an important voice that people listen to on national policy. that seems to be an important part of why she was making contact with him. >> let me ask you more about the trump campaign foreign policy advisers. they were not visible opt campaign, not really. people like george papadopoulos, not around. i never saw him on the campaign. j.d. gordon was named. didn't see him on the campaign. these names seem to come -- not out of nowhere. but the trump organization was asked to release a list. it kind of felt like these people were just random people they put on a list and sent to
reporters. now it look like there's something more there. given that carter was somebody that the intelligence community had their eye on because of the interactions he was having with russians. george papadopoulos, who it's reported started this whole investigation because he was bragging to an australian diplomat in a london bar that russia had dirt on hillary clinton and now j.d. gordon linking these two seemingly separate investigations on a russian influence campaign. >> yeah, i've done quite a bit of reporting on carter page and george papadopoulos in particular and one of the things that struck me about them was they aggressively sought out the connection with the trump campaign at a time when, as you mentioned, the campaign was having a devil of a time finding sort of figures who they could tout at foreign policy advisers. we did a story once quoting a trump adviser at the time saying
anybody with a pulse was what they were looking for. and people like george and carter were people with a pulse who stepped forward and said, choose us. >> i got to tell you the day i saw george papadopoulos's picture i was taken aback. i didn't expect somebody so young. harry, what stands out to you about this. >> she's 29. he's 50. we have the vanity of older men. this is the exact agency it occurred, to me, of garry heart and donna rice in monkey business time. and the whole kind of younger woman, you know, using older guys to get political influence. but what stand out the me is -- you said it -- what's the defense of j.d. gordon? i don't know if there's a prominent republican political
official she hasn't met with. she's penetrating everywhere and anywhere she can with the help of this republican operative. and as you say, lover, keith eriksen. it just seems like this is not a sort of one week little story and episode. but she really got around. >> harry, just really quickly -- could this new what rozlynn uncovered -- say they didn't know about it -- could this prompt them to call her in for questioning? >> well, she's arrested. >> obviously. talk to her. >> she's going to have enormous pressure on her. they'll talk to her, but there's some members in the campaign many her wide circle and they're zero in like gordon. we already know of a couple of others. that's what will really interest them. the people from the campaign. the masquerade party after the
election. >> got it. guys thank you very much. coming up, a federal judge gave the trump administration a sharp reminder about the suffering of the children separated from their parents and who is to blame with it. (video-game dance music) (burke) abstract accident. seen it. covered it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy? that's because your home is filled with soft surfaces that trap odors and release them back into the room. so, try febreze fabric refresher. febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics and cleans them away as it dries. use febreze every time you tidy up to keep your whole house smelling fresh air clean. fabric refresher even works for clothes you want to wear another day. make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness.
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policy. but 572 remain in custody. the parents of most have already been deported. the trump administration proposed that the aclu take responsibility for finding and locating the hundreds of missing parents, saying they have more resources to track them down, more resources then the federal government. today a federal judge rejected that proposal and blasted it as unacceptable. all of this is the result of the government's separation and then inability and failure to track and reunite. and the reality is that for every parent who is not located, there will be a permanently orphaned child, ands that 100% the responsibility of the administration. that same judge is now ordering the white house to designate a person or team within the
administration to take control of the reunification process. joining us now is maria three a kumar and amir standen. she was hillary clinton's policy director during the 2008 presidential campaign. there still isn't somebody in charge of this. the court is ordering them to get somebody in charge of the reuniting. >> yes. i mean, we have been going through this saga for months and more importantly, these children have been going through this pain and misery at the hand of the trump administration for months. and every night that these children do not know where their parents are is an unacceptable atrocity. and the reality is ivanka trump said yesterday, the family separation policy was a true low point for her. she is a senior adviser to the president of the united states.
she works in the white house. i suggest, if this is a low point for her and she actually cares about this, she figures out along with the white house chief of staff and everybody in the white house how to address this problem. i mean, the reality that the government did not track the parents along with their children and have no simple way of identifying the parents even though they may have already been deport second down an outrage and needs to be addressed not next week, not tomorrow. it need to be addressed now. >> consider this maria -- there's now analysis of immigration data that find parents were targeted. parents were targeted under this zero tolerance policy. this is from the transactional records clearinghouse at syracuse university. they found that they
prosecutored parents with kids coming across the border. only 32% of those caught crossing the border were charged. an indication it was in the a blanket policy but a targeted effort directed at parents with kid. let me repeat that. their finding from this analysis the adults coming over alone were treated differently and better it seems than the dulls coming over with kid. >> this demonstrates that the trump administration was trying to exact maximum pain to the most vulnerable. the people that are three fleeing the families fleeing traversed three to four countries to come here mostly with the clothes on their back to give their children a shot. the trump administration when they said they were going to do zero tolerance it wasn't blanketed. it was targeted at children, targeted at families. they turned around and put the children and babies in cages. there's not going to be a remedy
in the near future to make sure these children are not unified but they're receiving the medical attention because the trauma we are starting to hear is happening to these children -- some don't want to speak out loud. some follow their apparents room to room. some curl up because they're so afraid they are not going see their parents. then others are just plain angry. then the fact that attorney general jeff sessions stared in the camera to the american people and said he was going establish a zero tolerance policy and now to find it one zero tolerance it was aimed at the most vulnerable, the parents and children should be a heart wrenching reminder of the american people to the cruelty of this administration. when ivanka trump look at the american people and says this is something she's painfully aware and she something we shouldn't be doing, i agree with mira she
should say she's going do immigrant to stop it. i encourage her to visit the border. >> hold on, though. >> this nonsense they're telling the aclu that they should be reunifying the parents is a shame though. it's the federal government's responsibility. >> i want to zero in on one point. jeff sessions announced this policy in the spring. then when the policy was backfiring and they were getting the negative headlines and the pictures looked bad, but, you know, lives were actually much worse, they said over and over again, this administration kear kirstjen nielsen said this is not a policy. not only was it a policy, but it was aimed at parents. no not just anybody crossing the border but parents specifically. >> cruel intentioned. >> that's right.
>> what's interesting is one of their largest security that provided security for pakistan in that country under u.s. control, they received a government contract two weeks before the policy of family separation was announced. they were the ones housing children not in accommodating facilities. they discovered they were in phoenix in regular office buildings that didn't have kitchens. one bathroom. held the toddlers were weeks without having them go outside. these neighbors broke the story. these individuals got a contract two weeks before the story. >> coming up, if you don't fully understood what happened in the meeting with donald trump and vladimir putin, you're not alone. neither does the director of national intelligence. stay with us.
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2018 elections are real and ongoing, but just six hours later, six hours, donald trump contradicted his own intelligence officials as a rally in pennsylvania. >> in helsinki, i had a great meeting with putin. we discussed everything. i had a great meeting. >> the russians are looking for every opportunity to continue their pervasive efforts to undermine our fundamental values. >> russia is very unhappy that trump won. that i can tell you. but i got along great with putin. >> as i have said consistently, russia attempted to entire fear with the last election and continues to engage in maligned influence op addressings to this day. >> nower we are being hindered by the russian hoax. it's a hoax. >> we acknowledge the threat. it is real. it is continuing and we are doing everything we can to have a legitimate election that the american people can have trust in. >> it's almost as if there are
two administrations, one led by grownups who are trying to protect our democracy be the other what wonts to butt -- no matter how they try to sidestep, trump never fails to wears them and communicate his real feel g feelings. he never accepted he got elected with russian help and is not about to make an all-out push to stop it in 2018. there are only 118 days until 2018 elections. can they work together without the help of the commander in chief? without the help of the president? we'll discuss that next. your insurance company is gonna raise your rate after the other car got a scratch so small you coulda fixed it with a pen. maybe you should take that pen and use it to sign up with a different insurance company. for drivers with accident forgiveness
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come briefing room and address not just reporters but the general public? >> you have national security leaders who understand this kind of thing need to be communicated to the support our leaders as they hopefully do the right thing or elect leaders in congress specifically who will do the right thing, who will support sanctions that are strong enough to deter russia. but i think what's also happening, my read of it anyway, as we get closer to the mid-terms and as it becomes clear to the american people that the russians did attack our election and did use the republican party especially through its candidate, donald trump, to make the attack and now the republican party is sort of lying down on the job or its elected leaders, i think there's got to be increasing pressure to show the american people that the administration on some level is trying to do the right thing. that's why i think those national security leaders end up on the podium in the pressroom, even though six hours later the
president gets up and says it's a hoax. he's keeping them in the dark and brainwashed whereas the republicans who are concerned by donald trump's open betrayal of the country in helsinki are seeing, okay, part of the administration is doing the right thing. maybe i can still vote republican. >> do you think they're in the dark and brainwashed? >> i think it's time for us to start thinking about some of the base being brainwashed. there's this qanon, this conspiracy theory. the conspiracy theories on the far right are growing and spreading and becoming less part of the fringe discourse and working their way into the main stream. it's becoming more of the case. and in my mind that's a piece of brainwashing. i mean we're talking about people existing in alternative information environments that have no bearing on fact or reason. and that's where some of his
base is. >> it is almost like there are two administration. one led by grown ups like those national security advisers you just saw, and the other one led by donald trump, a man who wants to bear hug the guy who attacked our democracy. >> yeah, i mean, just think about the fact that we had all those leaders of our intelligence community, a leader of the fbi, the dni, all walk out and make the statements they did. and of course, it's not just their work. they are basing this on the work of hundreds if not thousands of intelligence people, you know, working under the cia, the fbi, et cetera, gathering intelligence about the threat our country faces right now. and then hours later donald trump continues with the language of a russian hoax.
just weeks after vladimir putin said that he wanted trump to win and donald trump said that he basically believed vladimir putin over the people arrayed at the white house podium yesterday. and i think the reality of this is if you are concerned about the threat that exists from russia, not just what they've done in the past but what they are doing today and what they will do in the future, you cannot count on the president of the united states. we have an extraordinary moment when there's really two administrations. there's the president trump himself and then the intelligence community, and they have really leaned up just as opposed to him on this fundamental issue. >> so the question needs to be asked. is the administration concerned about sending mixed messages to russia? here's what one of the strategic communications director told kristen walker. >> president trump last night at his rally said the russian investigation is a hoax.
doesn't that undercut -- >> thought at all. i think we made it very clear the president last may in 2017 directed the administration to be tough and strengthen cyber security measures. >> are you concerned, though, it sends a mixed message to russia? >> no, not at all. the only one sending mixed messages are the media. >> it's only the media. >> i mean, this is the talking point every single day which is we're all supposed to just basically ignore what donald trump says. sarah huckabee sanders says this on occasion, the white house strategy communications strategy is to just actually -- the broad public except for their base is supposed to ignore what the president says, but his base is supposed to take everything he says literally. i mean, it's ridiculous and outrageous that we have this kind of thing about, you know, not a partisan battle or just two sides of a debate on taxes
or something. this is about america's national security. this is about our elections and democracy. and the fact that the white house, the president of the united states just cannot make the statement about the threat that exists from russia is ridiculous and shows that he's got -- it makes people think they have something on him. >> let me ask this question of you, evan. can our intelligence community, can our agencies effectively push back against russian interference, the cyber warfare if the president's not onboard? >> they can do a lot, but they can't do enough. what really needs to happen here is deterrence. because we're never going to be able to block every cyber intrusion and disinformation campaign. you just can't do it, so you've to deter. and deterrence the best vehicle for that is through sanctions. that has to be done by congress, which is why the mid-terms are so critical. >> evan mcmullin, good to see you. tonight's "last word" is next.
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i mean, i guess they put up or shut up. what due got? >> oh, you better hope you're not playing poker because your client can't keep a casino running. >> that's tonight's "last word." "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts right now.
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