tigran: not really. karabakh is definitely a part of the armenian civilization, the armenian culture. i wouldn t separate them. tatul: i think karabakh is a part of armenia, but not a part of the republic of armenia. it s like a continuation of armenia. we are the same. anthony: tigran served in the military. tatul is a journalist. saro, our host, is armenian but born in azerbaijan having fled during the war. he now runs a guesthouse here in shushi. anthony: to what extent is this not just a religious conflict saro: no, no. tatul: it s not religious. anthony: not at all? tatul: no, no, no. nothing, no. anthony: this is a christian island in a sea of muslims. tatul: well, this is a christian island. it s true. this is christian island, but the conflict of nagorno-karabakh is not religious. anthony: there are people, hardliners here who refer to azeris as turks. tatul: they are turks. anthony: they are turks? tatul: they are turks, yes, they are.
anthony: what do you think no one? tatul: no one. tigran: i think there s a clear understanding in armenian society that we can only rely on ourselves. tatul: the other reality is we are paying a very, very high price. since 1994, armenians on karabakh s side have lost about 3,000 soldiers. we are losing our 18, 20 years old sons, you know? this is sad reality. and i don t know how will this situation continue. i don t know. i think it s right time to drink for peace. saro: you read my mind now. anthony: cheers. cheers. ahh. summer is coming.
anthony: armenia and karabakh. saro: yeah. anthony: two different things or the same? tigran: not really. karabakh is definitely a part of the armenian civilization, the armenian culture. i wouldn t separate them. tatul: i think karabakh is a part of armenia, but not a part of the republic of armenia. it s like a continuation of armenia. we are the same. anthony: tigran is a war veteran and aspiring politician.
tatul is a journalist. saro, our host, is armenian but born in azerbaijan having fled during the war. he now runs a guesthouse here in shushi. anthony: to what extent is this not just a religious conflict saro: no, no. tatul: it s not religious? anthony: not at all? tatul: no, no, no. nothing, no. anthony: this is a christian island in a sea of muslims. tatul: well, this is a christian island. it s true. this is christian island, but the conflict of nagorno- karabakh is not religious.
anthony: there are people, hardliners here who refer to azeris as turks. tatul: they are turks. anthony: they are turks? tatul: they are turks, yes, they are. anthony: please explain. tigran: i think probably they are not - they did not bear historical responsibility for the actions committed by the ottomans, but the struggle of the people of nagorno-karabakh for their existence is kind of a continuation of the struggle of armenian people to live peacefully in their historical homeland. tatul: i m not saying that azeris and turks are the same nations. anthony: right. tatul: but they are turkic nations. anthony: they re working in unison. tatul: yeah, they are working in unity today to isolate armenia. anthony: do you think there s a sense that when people look at this conflict, they think, they look back and they say, this is what could happen in the future ? tigran: yes, absolutely. it is absolutely an existential conflict. if we lose, we know that we will b