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Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV 20120828

went to talk to patraeus about the concept of what calvin called the big m which stood for individual mystique of ornithology. the idea of calvin -- as kevin explained, is that troops need to be able to make their commanders bigger than they are, to magnify them. patton had his pistols. grenades. grant his cigars. patraeus tested out as the epitome of the soldier the dollar. intellectually he is famous for being the lead author of the army's revised doctrine of counterinsurgency warfare. on the battlefield he is credited with turning things around the following president bush's decision at the end of 2006 to of surge u.s. forces there, and he faced a similar challenge in afghanistan during a year of command there between the middle of 2010 and the middle of 2011. patraeus time in afghanistan is the focus of the book, although it has a more broad sweep. he and gore brings lots of biographical information about patraeus in an effort to examine what has made him so effective and influential leader. in fact and of the book grew out of his pursuit of a ph.d. from public policy which involved a case study of patraeus as an example of transformational leaders and organizational innovation -- innovation. as a graduate of west point and an army reserve officer, he knows the army from the inside. in her book she takes readers into briefing rooms and command posts on to training sites and battlefields. granted a number of opportunities to travel with patraeus and even to jog with him which as anyone who has tried that knows that probably deserves a medal in and of itself. notorious for the intensity with which she works out. the tape -- same intensity he applies to just about everything he does. i might add that she herself is no athletic slacker. a runner and reds number one in overall fitness in her class was point. donating 20 percent of the proceeds of the book to a team red, white, and blue, an organization that works with wounded veterans using physical fitness to help them find their normal. helped in the riding of sherbrooke by a very talented former colleague of mine at the "washington post". vernon, who has lots of experience himself covering the military and intelligence world is now opposed metropolitan editor. recipe for about 20 or 30 minutes and will then take questions. if you have a question please robert to step up and use the microphone right here in the center of the room. afterwards she will be happy to st and sign books. please silence yourself funds and join me in welcoming paula. [applause] >> before we get started. would like to see how many veterans we have in the room sign the hon facing. great. thank you for all your service. and they might have less defensible leaked to double wanted to red, white, and blue. are there any folks from that organization? a couple. okay. great. thank you for coming. very important for me to take advantage of the national media platform that i have right now with the book. it just became a best seller this week, which is pretty exciting. new york times best seller number six on the non-fiction and number 13 overall. for somebody who doesn't like to write that much, it is very humbling. i have to give credit to my writing partner for helping us to get to this point. but i felt that it was important to do something consequential with that attention that the media is bringing to the book. i want to call americans to go all in as well to support our wounded warriors as the comeback from these theaters. rio to them, and i think it is our turn. of like to tell you how like interest the book. we will bring us some characters that are actually in the book in the room and will talk about their adventures. i'd like to share some stories. can everyone here a? in 2006 general david patraeus was the commander of fort leavenworth, the army's school house and was helping to write the counterinsurgency field manual. overseeing the writing of it. beckham he added it 30 times the first chapter, so he likes to pay attention to detail. he came to us at harvard university where i was a graduate student and wanted to speak to students about the merits of counterinsurgency. and he invited a group of veterans, young students, soldiers dollars, if you will, to meet with him after his presentation to the largest in body, and i when attempt and said, writing might the system and negotiating with terrorists, and that think it could help your team win. he was kind enough to indulge me and take the paper and give me his business card. as he does with a lot of young soldiers dollars, very open-minded about taking ideas from any and every one, in fact, uses what he calls and what is long known as direct telescoping to reach out to those in different sectors and fields to get their ideas. so we kept in touch via e-mail for a couple of years. i was still a graduate student. two years later are reached out to him and asked if he would speak to a group of students at harvard who are trying to find ways to galvanize greater cooperation among its the intelligence community, the military, and other national security organizations. we, as ms. great fields of system if you will, were frustrated sigalert corp. he agreed to do a video teleconference from baghdad. this is just after the surge has started to achieve some success. and he opened his presentation with a quote from a roman philosopher. like is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. and i feel like that has been exemplary of his life and in my instance with this book it really captures the feeling of how i got this opportunity to write the book. of go into that a little bit more in a bit. so, fast-forward again. he went -- the search was, as we all know, instruments of. may argue a little otherwise, but the surge complemented the iraqi frustration with insurgency. basically the tide was turned there and rebel to start to draw our forces down. patraeus came back in 2008, and i was intrigued by how this individual had galvanized organizational transformation in the army, have shaped this new doctrine, which was kind of old stock and repackaged, but brought this new doctrine, ship the organization of our units that are going to work, shared the training and equipping. and i was looking at this from a management perspective. out as an insider affect transformational transformation. i asked him if i could use him as a case study in my doctoral dissertation. he agreed. i brought a tape recorder. this is a test, the purpose of the book which basically shows i think why gain rapport with them. i could keep up with him on the run, and we ended up getting down to about a six minute mile pace. needless to say, did not transcribed that interview. a bunch of heavy breathing. so we continued that sort of e-mail correspondence, and i was writing. incorporating his thoughts. i was able to take advantage of my tribe, the military and my classmates at west point, four of whom were his aides throughout his career. several of them -- several others have been in my company, for example. and they were great informants. i think there were loyal to him, but obviously the trusted me. i was able to get a lot of great access. i got to know his family and mentors. they share correspondence that he had exchanged over three or four decades, so i can see the tennant david patraeus, captain david patraeus writing to general jack galvin and talking about in 1978 or 79, this is how the military needs to of balance heavy and light forces. only 80, after he visited the general and central america he writes that the only way to change an army is to change is doctrine. i will do that someday. in fact and they had a small competition going between the two. as the livid, this am, so if you ever see him : little m. the letters that they stains were very candid. i could trace the development of this banking about the organization of the military none of that made it into the book. made on the cutting room floor. nicosia various points with he was thinking back to a certain point in the plus four to afghanistan so in the summer of june june 2010 when general my crystal and the rolling stone article role that are ever sitting on the couch watching television and watching the faces flashed across who could potentially replace him. i had friends calling saying, do you think patraeus would go. no, no. he will never send him. this picture was flashing of there. but, as we portray in chapter one he already knew that his name was probably in the hat even though the media was all speculating about a time. he received a call from mcchrystal replan the article broke. and he said it was going to be bad. he was pretty sure that -- he was certain he would receive some vibes from the white house that he would probably lose his job. admiral mullen had called patraeus and said to me your name is not being speculated publicly, there is a pretty hyper ability that you will be the one for afghanistan. so if any of you have read that first chapter or the paper that followed everything, he he gets into the white house. therefore regularly scheduled meeting but someone from the oval office comes down and says the president wants to see you of stairs. as he is walking into the oval office the secretary and other senior leaders are walking out. the announcement was made in the rose erin, that's when i thought i have any of opportunity to from my dissertation, the story of houses played out. i went to work to find a partner and found the truly extraordinary mentor and friend and writing coach and partner. one thing he didn't mention is that he's a to -- huge runner. says -- in any case, the challenge, i haven't written anything like this, i hadn't even finished my dissertation. i have attention deficit disorder, so it's very hard to sit in place. so having someone who is a seasoned and accomplice was really helpful. designing the ark of the narrative and trying to find a way to fit in the biographical digressions and relate them to the front story. but i'm sure you're all familiar with one of his saints, it was like building an aircraft low implied by getting shot at. because we didn't know which characters are developed. we didn't know how the war would turn out, how would the surged impact operations. and so there was, you know, pretty high up tempo for us to keep up with events on the ground, report them, write them, and we are deadlines. so i applied for a visa and showed up in afghanistan. and he had been helping me with my dissertation thinking, here is this benign back to austin, no one will read her dissertation. not a big deal. he did realize that i was turning it into a book until my fourth visitors so when i sentiment in know from the pakistan border showing him by i sense of adventure. we are having a blast of here. we just got shot at. and he wrote back, his boss at the time, first airborne division commander. i think he realized, appointed as i was out their sharing a hardship with the troops are at least accepting some risk to get the story to get the scoop. so he then said to his staff, let's try to accommodate her a little bit more. and so i spent about almost four months on the ground. in 3-week does is at a time. it was powerful to do that to see how things are changing, get out of the environment, see how the war was being reported in the united states and the go back in and get the story. and i spent time, with troops and other ones on the ground, special forces at the afghan local police sites traveling around with different, the rule of law effort or the village stability operations effort, but most of my time is spent traveling around with general patraeus. his circulations to a security shows him as the afghans. the biographical digressions. the four key managers. the superintendent at west point and his daughter married. upon, rather unheard of, but plain clothing member of the rangers regiment to be started -- helped to start the joint operations unit. before that he had been in the iran hostage rescue. special forces and operations in metal community that the back burner the interest. the 30 mentor and most influential mentor is general jack galvin. he was assigned with general galvin several times, but their correspondences the richest and for sure there the closest today. he not only learned military history and of and management but they both had this passion about small wars, no intensity conflict. is see how government and to some. inviting him down the central america, panama, which is where seven command was headquartered at the time. six insurgences going on. patraeus flies around. most officers, or anyone as to -- anyone who has been to iraq and iran really have only known this type of work, but for a young david patraeus who was in a peacetime army after vietnam, it was quite an experience for him to walk up to the commander some in el salvador and be handed in machines and to the machine gun. he writes a letter and was really blown away by. this type of warfare is important to pay attention to. the fourth mentor, we all know, here in washington, general jack keene. and it david patraeus first met jackie when he was working for general -- the chief of staff of the army at the time. and he had been commissioned to the stand of the joint readiness training center. low intensity conflict of this type of insurgency warfare, but it was a income pressure to cut and unconventional at the time because we were really looking at -- the gall still had just ended. that was not really welcome to or look kindly upon. you needed somebody with a huge personality to uses force of personality to stay in the center. so he would take patraeus is a to the rtc to check on how things are going. the head and as to report. everyone knows the story of him getting shot. he really that was what i think solidified there and relationship. their work together for several assignments after that. so, okay, the social network is a big variable. the second was just elected is education. i can relate these parents myself. different curriculum, but i was able to get access to the records. the 74 states. and looked as sort of what conflicts. there was no low intensity conflict or insurgency. there was an elected, but he never took it. but then i also traced his military education and his experience at princeton which was, for him, one of his most formative experiences. one reason why he really encourages young people to try to have been out of their comfort zone experience. brian his horizon beyond what the military have been indoctrinated with. i say that tongue-in-cheek. so, again, his education. another thing we talked about was his experiences. not only the typical military experiences of an infantry officer, but his experience and 80 which was a mission building exercise which is where he had his first real exposure to rule of law development memory and ideas that he took fourth to the hundred first airborne division on some of the rule of law initiatives they have there. elected is experience in bosnia where he was greatly exposed to the intelligence to the and special operations command. after the mission there he suffers from one of hunting war criminals to hunting terrorists. he was there just wed september 11th happened. they stood up a joint interagency counterterrorism task force. he would go out of these nitrates with the green berets and the special of community, so both the rangers and delta force guys as well as the green berets , because the first time those two communities had the same mission. and so, you know, this was import fresh developments as a future commander in. ♪ to understand how to use those teams, if you will, but he was out there in a baseball cap. after the gas would go in and knock on the doors for the war criminals for he would deliver letters for the war criminals to turn themselves in. two months in the buck. his history interview. a kind of transformational time. also working on the multi-year road maps. so basically comprehensive plan in jay z, international joint combined everything. all of these players when he made a lot of great context. first time to run in the circle and have operational command. so we look at all of these experiences. and then we try to show how some of the plays out in iraq. there is not a heavy emphasis on iraq because i felt that those experiences were pretty well covered with and, for him in the robinson, these great, great books. the real story is how all of this education has played out and plays out in afghanistan. so, the war in afghanistan he regretted having to leave so soon. and yet he recognize the great opportunity. the president wanted him to be in place. helix back, talks about his regret, if he can have some, were in afghanistan. he said talking about my race and counter-terrorism. frankly speaking that was the only area that was showing progress. all the serb forces were not a place. there was not quite the momentum in the clearing operations down by 30 percent. in hellman. in others, their up by 19 percent, but he regrets having claimed that counter-terrorism and nitrates and so forth were where the war was setting. in the discussion of where we are today to my guesstimate is an extension of that. he also wishes he could have focused earlier on preventing civilian casualties. a u.n. report just him out today the talk about, this is the fifth year in a row were civilian casualties in afghanistan ever since. and while u.s. or i soft casualties are decreasing, insurgency caused civilian casualties are on the rise. so how does that translate into how our campaign is working? those questions. a few remarks of all. what like to do is open up. a few remarks to say. >> and have the answer questions. >> okay. do we have any questions? i guess he should use a microphone. please go ahead. >> in your book it was mentioned that patraeus wanted to be the joint chiefs of staff, but he was told that no way he was going to become joint chairman. could you tell us why he couldn't be joint chiefs of staff chairman if he was district iraq. >> that is a great question and give every stop. he was not considered for the position, as we rode in the book. in part it was the rumor has it or the sources which i had, washington is only enough for one superstar. david patraeus is not it. so i think the thought was that he would not be the malleable as chairman. and with tough budget cuts that the part of the defense had and the restructuring and equipping and thinking about how we're going to fight the next war, i think about was that having him in that position would -- he was serve as sort of -- he would stymie the white house objectives. so on the other hand to as you know, he was interested in the cia position. the best possible position for him. he has will show how he has been a voracious consumer of intelligence, worked with 16 different agencies in the intel is to ready for "while. a consumer of intelligence. he's very interested in what he can provide. he understands what is to provide to the commander. maybe it's a blessing in disguise. at the bottom line is that he is almost too good for them to handle. try to be diplomatic. >> really need to the state or said to michael hastings actually took mcchrystal, the pentagon makes the puritans of all america look like greenwich village of bohemians. but not insubordination but indiscretion. the supposed to be buddy buddy with an interior, and he was and is a soldier soldiers. a lawyer not touching upon are pleased to have not done so in passing, a very scantily, the problem of corruption and governance to all levels in the least. proper security, and that involves the killers. the fanatic killers, religious killers, the revenge killers, and how you deal with that. all it takes is one juror to create havoc in a community. and then the third thing in the middle east, at least in afghanistan, drugs and how you deal effectively with that. so all those things play a role. and then, unfortunately, in the military the report determines who gets promoted, and that has sometimes less to do with ability but he likes you. >> is there one question? >> actually putting substance to the makings of david patraeus. >> it is -- those are all good questions and doubts to pontificate. we will talk a little bit about the will of law. this is one initiative, general mark martin, before in iraq in helping to galvanize in afghanistan. if you read the booklet and a trace of his efforts there to show how very difficult to this. frankly, everyone who was involved is a really right to teach them? but when you look at the competition with the taller than and sharia law, they are settling disputes. no, whether it is by giving someone sandra for stealing, but they're still in dispute. the government can do it. we have to stop somewhere. so he stood up this rule of law field force. went out to each of the basically down to the district level. out to the speedy justice are some kind of justice. the system is totally archaic. pen and paper. did have a computer system to share files on. it's getting better, but they're is a long way to go. and one positive step they have made is just biometrics. i think about two years ago we started scanning in the afghan surging to that we could check them into the system again .. at one for some ways in building the country and building it up. the three -- what is it three cups of tea author. and i heard he was widely read over there by the officers. and then he's come under of a cloud of something fundraising and stuff. but never the less, upsurge in education, elementary schools and all of that over in afghanistan, so does he gate lot of credit for that, or did he have a role in inspiring that or getting that moving? >> sure. you know, it's important for young officers and troopers to center role knowledge see what kind of difference the insurgency the nonquestionive activities can have. i don't know that he's necessarily galvanized that change. whining i think when we have looked what we have learned from iraq those kinds of engages can help. but the question is how much does it help? and does it matter for our national security? right? if these can go to school. that's wonderful. i'm a women's right activist. does it matter for u.s. national security? that's what you have to ask at the end of the day. >> i'm interested in the art form of collaborative authorship. i wonder if you and your coauthor could say a little bit how together you planned and executed the book. >> yeah. that is an art form. i have to say i did the dry wall and did all the hard work. paula would go to afghanistan. we were reporting often a month behind real time and, you know, she would sort of unleash the fire hose of information on me. i would start basically sort of rough out the chapters. we had a front story which turned to be his year in command. it turned out to be the last command. we had the sort of a blessing of a natural front story. which we digressed off. and so following that, you know, i would basically rough out the chapters and then it became an art of sort a matter of passes grass back and forth where i would produce raft draft. pass it to paula she would refine and add information they have didn't have or didn't see. the problems go back and forth until i the kind of final draft emerged. it became more clabbive when the editor and editor jenny smith with penguin got involved. the whole book was produced fast. it was published on january 24 about last event is petraeus being sworn in by biden september 6th. so it's about a six month . >> [inaudible] >> lag time. that's about as fast as you can, you know, produce a book. it was fun. i mean, you have to, you know, you have to have a good relationship and a good partner and trust between the partners. i think it's -- i find -- i'm an editor now. i used to be a reporter it's a combination ever ed editing and writing. >> did you both deal with the editor. >> yes. >> thanks a lot. that's interesting. >> one of my favorite parts of the book is, you know, portray russ yution is a dominant character. we establish a group of secondary characters three were lieutenant commanders we tell the story of their war one fought around kandahar. one was fighting in the mountains of eastern in afghanistan and another in the rolling hills of began city. they all intersect with petraeus and the fourth secondary character is hitting here. a guy named doug who was . >> where is dave? there he is. we have one general aid i think first in bosnia. >> and he was petraeus aid during the innovation of iraq in 2003. so he was back in afghanistan commanding a combat betalon. it was the first time the sort of fund -- part of the book is petraeus has a special relationship with 102st. he commanded them in '03, it was the first combat command. the entire 101st was deployed together for the first time since 2003. and david was one of the three combat leaders we write about, and it's cool he's here and that doug was this senior civilian adviser to the commander in 101st in eastern afghanistan. and doug was also has a kind of special relationship to petraeus doug was the planner of the surge in of iraq in 2007 when he was with the first cavalry position. it's great their here. if you read the book, i think you'll enjoy that interplay between the dominant character and the secondary characters who are, you know, very, very difficult and interest and very tough battles throughout the year. it's a brutal war. and, you know, it's -- writing about them from my advantage point from a far was really interesting and entiring to me. it seemed to kind of dedication and devogues about weight they carry to the day from the people they lost there. two questions, if i could. not having read the book, covering the political attack on the general -- [inaudible] by the general petraeus comment, and the other is could you speak about your can set experience at west point? [laughter] >> we do touch on the general petraeus ad -- yeah. i guess it was an ad. for those that haven't read the book or know any other history. some move on.org took out an ad on the day general petraeus was testifying in 2007. there was question about the voracity of the statistics he was using to report progress in the war. the ad 77 meant to question whether it was petraeus or debetray yous. one of the most hurtable things he experienced was to have that. another thing we try to show in the war was the human side of him. the burden of command, and the mask of command and how important it is at that level to always keep that mask on to give the troops hope. but at the end of the day, he's human and it's tough to lose troops and be questioned at that point in time. so. okay. the experience. i can talk for hours about that. there's a lot of grads in the room. in hindsight. it's wonderful. i'd coit again in a heart beat. i kept a journal of the four years i was there, and i had a chance to look through those. i didn't think i didn't have that great of an experience. it pretty much sucked. [laughter] but, you know, and i would add especially as a woman. it it's hard for everyone. but now i remember it was fun memories and i'm proud to be part of the line and yeah. it was most formative thing that ever happened to me in the most important thing was to embrace the concept of duty on our country. i think we show how this new great generation of leaders are doing that as well. i can tell you, i can tell lots of stories about west point. i'll stop there. >> thank you for taking time today. i actually have a two and a half part question. i'll be quick. the first is regarding other force of nature bos richard the relationship between general and him and who is who's wing man. the term has been used in different ways. i usually hear the general find it more. how did the afghans find general petraeus. what are some of his weaknesses. >> thank you. good questions. bruce was at the brockings institute ran barack obama's one of the afghan reviews and he was working closely with who'll brooke, petraeus, and clinton, and distinctly answer your question, he would say that petraeus and e everybody knew it was the de facto leader of the team. but it was important to have hole brooke as the face. think of the networking he had. even hole brooke acknowledged that. that's my source. your second question, was -- the afghan. so, you know, the interesting thing to juxtaposition is david's experience in iraq. they called him king david. maybe he gave himself that name. i don't know. [laughter] but he's very well respected? iraq. they named streets after him. i can't tell you how many people would give up their children and riches to thank him for what he did for the country. afghans, not so much. the life after was the an try level position in a country with a more complex terrain kind of insurgency i don't know if you can say more complex insurgency. a complex area. he had visited but certainly did not have at depth of knowledge, the networks, you know, not only of the terrain but the enemy, of the architecture there that he would have to work with. of the forces, if you will. and green forces and blue forces. so i think he felt he to prove himself -- and this is testament. a lot of people thought he talked about iraq all the time. many people with the afghan experience is thinking this is not iraq. but in his mind, at the end of the day there were many principles and lessons we could take it's not transferable. we can't take what we did there and do it here. obviously. but i think he never really gained the rapport that christ m had with karzai, and i think the afghan ministers respected him, it certainly wasn't the same level 6 respect he with the iraq i can government. the third question. sorry i should be writing them down. >> some of his weaknesses. >> he is such a driven individual. that can and a strength too. he channels that drive and ams wishes to serve the country. i think his ego is in like with that. it's not egotist call. he put duty on our country and the service to the nation above his family. so i almost considered that a strength and weakness. as a working mother and wife my husband works hard too and it's hard to find balance. but it's pretty clear and holly is pretty clear that she supported him. they have a wonderful marriage and very established children. other weaknesses. >> if there aren't any? >> there are. there are. i like that tease him -- i call him, you know, monodirectional or not multifaceted. that's a joke. he he's a extremely very ray show reader. he doesn't like to do anything besides run and do pt and read and work. and, you know, go out to dinner with holly and i don't know if that's a weakness, we but i feel he could have more balance and learn to relax. at the end of the day it come do you understand to a voice coming down in his head. results boy, his father was tough on him. we don't get in to it that much in the book. his father had high standards and david petraeus could never please him. he was driive to all the do better and deliver resulted whether it was winning a newspaper delivery contest in school or playing on the soccer team and ski team. he was driven to please his father and probably all of us can relate to that in some sense. okay. >> i understand you're donating a portion of your proceeds for wounded warriors. i was wondering if you could tell us about that. >> i would love to. thank you. they are called team red, white, and blue. it was founded by a west pointer named mike irwin. he's a major and teaches in the behavior sciences and leadership in west point. and my mike was an intelligence officer but he served with a special operation tour and had several tours. he started the group to help wounded warriors to find the new -- through fitness. but the other idea was to give wounded warriors something to belong to that they left when they left the corp. of the military. anyone who served. you know what a family the military becomes. it becomes even more so when you fought together and lost limbs or friends jointly. and to lose that, and come back to the u.s. known be able to discuss it your family because they can't relate or your feel shameful. our wounded warriors with invisible wounds don't get a purple heart. we're not recognizing that we have an open disemmic in the veteran community. 472,000 veterans from afghanistan and iraq have debilitating levels of ptsd. the number is a number that come forward to the va. it you can imagine there's tens of thousands more that just are afraid to admit. you can get a stigma. it's difficult to get hired in a job if you have some of the issues. traumatic brain injury is another invisible wound. i'm working with the uso making a video tomorrow to call americans to go all in for the troops. that doesn't just mean donating money. what the hope of the group embraces is that you will find ways to get active too and to mentor some of these wounded warriors and if it you can't run a race with them. maybe you can help online raising awareness posting on facebook whatever. welcome the wounded warriors back and try to reach out to them and give them thanks for what they've sacrificed for us. >> i'd like to go back to the afghanistan matter having served in the embassy. i wondered about the application of the iraq surge idea to afghanistan. i major part of iraq idea was buying off local leaders. we've been buying off war lords in afghanistan forever. and the aliban have access to unlimited resources from the drug trade, did petraeus feel that the surge idea could just be collected from iraq and put down in afghanistan and be successful? >> no. i think nobody's success and in either country for that matter. really what the surge was meant do in both countries is create the time and space so that the local host nation national security forces could stand up and defend themselves. you have to deal with the whole -- you have seen the anaconda slide in i'm not going to get a powerpoint out for you unless you want it. there's not just a security solution. there's a rule of law we were talk abouts. there's international relations. you to be eat lot of partners 489 coalitions members to agree on mission of stated objectives and the withdrawal plans. you have to find out who has a capability to deal with counter drug operations and should we handled that or britain. or money from the polls. you can imagine the discussions that go on trying to decide who will do what. i don't think he anies there was any solution in either country. and, you know, especially if we have a withdrawal in afghanistan. but we have given the iraqis now is the chance -- in fact he gave ma lack i can a picture of george washington two months ago. he was in iraq visiting. the symbolism there. it's your chance, iraq, to either start a new beginning or what. so nobody knows how either of these wars are going to end and i don't think he was nigh yaf to think the surge would be enough. how many questions do we have? >> we have five more minutes. one and three quarters. [laughter] >> i'll limit it then to the cia situation and multifaceted. how much of president obama's interest in having him go somewhere was political to get him out of way and i don't know i'm talking about. you mentioned that petraeus was a great consumer of intidges. but on the other hand, it appears to maybe it was a newspaper reader, so to speak there is a militarization of the cia going on that's the core underneath my question. and she was selected in part because of his special operations background and his use of all those kinds of divisions in order to move this process within the cia further than it has been in the past which is i think should be of some concern. so, you know, if you could comment on that. i would appreciate it. >> he doesn't talk too much about what, you know, the direction that agencies is going now. and -- since he's come in to the agency the number of months he's been there, the five months there have been more drone strikes in the five months with his predecessor under secretary panetta. but they have been more effective too. they have taken out seven of the top 20, al qaeda and we're seeing al qaeda -- it improved. some of the strike numbers have gone down lately. but i don't know how to read in to that does that necessarily mean we're increasing that para militarization of the agency? i don't think that president obama -- let me step back. petraeus suggested the cia position as we write in the book. and gates embraced it in november and december. didn't talk to obama about it in until january. the first time obama and petraeus speak about the potential for the position is in march. and the.really had been, you know, just mulling it over. i never got the sense from him from the president from petraeus or anyone on the national security counsel that they thought let's put him there to militarize the agency. lou how we're drawing down. how the defense department is shying wie from the large scale boots on the ground operation. and as secretary gates said the next leader who decide toss commitment to one of the -- we want to avote void a large scale operation. petraeus is thinking even as he goes to the agency that's the kind of future of warfare. so are i would be speculating for i guess that the president had an intention of turning the agency in to an oss again. but they're coping up the drone attacks and, you know, they have shown some effectivenesses. and then of course, you know, the precision strikes. they have less or lower collateral damage. that's important in the -- we don't want to create more enemies by collateral damage. i guess we'll have to wait and see. the challenge is, you know, that transparency there and we don't have a lot of information on what they're achieving. >> congratulations on your book, again. my question is about the personal relationship you highlight. specifically with ikeen berg i are, karzai and general petraeus. you mention there was a lack of a con deuce working relationship between karzai and okayen berry. general petraeus made the executive decision to do one on one meeting without karzai. you mention petraeus' stress on the importance of civilian military partnership i'm wondering about your reflection as to how thaw came in to play was that the right call? the overall picture of that. >> well, i think one of the thing he learned in his education in iraq was how critical it is to have unity of effort with the civilian side because you can't kill your way out of insurgency. it needs to be a comprehensive civil mill fair plan idea a role of government effort. the surge of security forces arrived in afghanistan but we never did see a surge of civilian forces. i think that was frustrating him to him. he found innovative ways to work around it. that's one of the things i like to frame in the book is that really it's a study in strategic leadership. how to get down when you have a troop cap. if you want to have this afghan local police initiative but you only have so many special forces. he brought in convention until -- augment the special forces. there's neat examples strategic leadership in action. and, you know, i think in his dealings with scar he released any tight he brought iken berry karzai would becomer rational. he stopped bringing him. he maintained a good relationship with him. they weren't best friend. they cordial and speak politely to me. he had -- i department really write about this in the book execht to say that when petraeus left the rose garden the day he found out he was taking the job. he wrote notes in on the to-do list. he wanted to call after holly was ryan and he called crocker and crocker was interested in joining him. they made a lot of calls to the white house and around washington to get crocker there right away. to have a dynamic duo that worked well together and crocker didn't get there until a year later. would it have made a difference? we'll never know. one more person. okay. >> thank you because we're in politics and prose i have to ask about future possibility. do you think there's any role for politics as general petraeus time goes on and. >> did you watch the daily show a week and a half ago? [laughter] right. i was on the john stewart daily show a week and a half ago. i'll borrow my line there. john stewart asked the same question. i said my husband says i should say he's going run for office. but i can't tell a lie. no, he's not interesting in running for office. in fact as a mentor of minds, i've mentioned my interest in potentially running for office. he said politics absolutely. we have seen some of the individuals even though some of are his friends, if you will. but, you know, trace amigos he spent a lot of time with. they stab him in the back in an instant to advance the political agenda. he takes that personally and he doesn't want to behave like that. he also said if he would run for office he'd have to yield on the principles to win the primary to win the voters. i don't think so. i think he's electable by either party, frankly. it i think people admire that she's values oriented individual and, you know, some of the mantras he sub vibes to be the first with truth, lead your values. people can relate to that about ideal of serving somebody greater than yourself. he doesn't want to. he'd be great. i don't think it's going happen. he would love to stay in the job four years, eight years as long as the administration will keep him. he's like a teen. he's so excited about the agency. in recognizing the quality of people there after dealing with -- he has the intellectuals and at heard he is a professor. one thing he thought about doing after he retires is becoming a president of princeton. he looks academia. he's enjoying where he's at now. i don't see a run for office. >> thank you very much. >> yep. thanks, everyone, for coming. [applause] it's an honor. to be at the greatest bookstore in washington. i hope you support brad and keep the bookstore thriving. and also, again another shoutout to those who have served and do serve and for our wounded warriors. thanks again for coming. [applause] come up this even on booktv john talks about the history of bell laboratories. and then jack hit travels the country seeking out the next crop of amateur inventers. hall of fame basketball player talks about his children book "what is my world." spend the weekend in ohio state capitol columbus as booktv, american history tv, and c-span local content vehicles look behind the scenes at the history and literary life of ohio largest city on booktv on c-span2. ..