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himself of south korea is not in any way suggesting that trump should just accept. be cautious, first engage at a lower level and trump is like no, i want to do it, let's announce it now. the south koreans end up making the announcement in the driveway in front of the white house. on every level, this is unprecedented, and yet on every level, this is par for the course and what we should expect with president trump. >> normally presumably you would have had the president say, let's think about it. >> sure. >> let's convene a national security council meeting. >> even president moon jae-in, the south korean president all for engagement and negotiation, offered to meet with kim jong-un he said if the continues are right, let me think about this. i'll get back to you. president trump normal situation should have done convene a meeting and talk about pros and cons of having such a summit meeting with kim jong-un, and then coordinate the policy and
then announce it. >> so stanley, what's wrong with trying this? the trump argument i suppose would be look, we've tried all that kind of thing. why not do something out of the box? >> there's nothing wrong with trying this. i think extraordinary times require extraordinary measures, and in my view, president trump had no choice. first, this had been clearly orchestrated by president moon who invested enormous political capital and prestige sending his national security adviser to personally brief the president, carrying the invitation. it would have been a massive insult to president moon, had he not accepted it and it would have been a massive insult to kim jong-un. furthermore, i think the president, because of the way he runs the white house, does not have the luxury that president clinton had, where he could send secretary albright, ambassador sherman and a very large team. we had four assistant secretaries, to pave the way for a trip. is secretary tillerson really going to be able to represent the u.s. on north korea policy,
after the way the president has publicly treated him three times? is this the right time for national security adviser mcmaster reportedly on the way out to be heading the delegation? you can't have the secretary of defense, so really, it is up to president trump to start it, but remember, the key thing, the point that i agree with the white house and i hope they stick to it, that this is not a negotiation. negotiation requires endless rounds of preparation and detail. this is a meeting, and if a meeting can start to form the beginnings of a relationship, and i'm not saying friendship, if a meeting can somewhat reduce the tensions and most importantly if a meeting can end up with an agreement on a process for negotiations, it is then worth the risk. >> sue mi terry the north wanted this meeting for a long time because this is a very repressive regime and this provides incredible legitimacy to the regime. >> north koreans have sought a meeting with the u.s. president for years. president bush was invited to
meet with him. it normalizes the country, but i have other concerns. trump might not see this as just a beginning of the negotiation. what if he concludes, what if he agrees to something like you know, north koreans say if their regime security is guaranteed they might give up nuclear weapons. they want to break up the u.s./south korea alliance, they want to kick off the u.s. forces off the korean peninsula. i don't have confidence mr. trump is going to start something. what if he decides hey, this might work or at the other end i think victor chan was absolutely right when he said you have a premature negotiation. if it falls through, there is no recourse. you already met with kim jong-un. now you're going to say okay we've used that engagement negotiation card and now we have no recourse except to take kinetic action on north korea. >> you said you knew this was going to happen in the sense that trump was going to want to meet with kim jong-un. why? >> because no one else has done it.
kim jong-un has not met with a single other leader of the world since he's become, since he's taken power, and no american president has ever met with the north korean leader, only former secretary of state. so it's the first. it's incredible television, clearly trump wants to make this happen. but that doesn't mean it's going to happen, and there are a lot of things, simply the fact of saying there's going to be a summit has made trump's presidency more about north korea than i think any of us want. the fact is, this has been the most intractable geopolitical problem for several administrations. now they've all decided to kick it down the road even though we know it's getting worse and they knew it was getting worse because they worried that opening up that can of worms had the potential to kill an awful lot of people, and the fact that trump is now making his presidency more about that is, of course, a greater danger for all of us. >> but you're saying just from a pure tv point of view, this is irresistible to the former host of "the apprentice." >> i'll say something else, it's irresistible i think at some
point putin will make an offer to host this thing because it's irresistible to have the media covering it in this sort of way. they both like that kind of thing. it's going to happen. it doesn't mean that the meeting is going to occur, doesn't mean the meeting is going to be any good. >> this is all very good for north korea. north korea is now what, 95% of the way to a robust nuclear arsenal, with delivery systems, right? >> yes. >> now is the time for them to talk. >> absolutely. north korea is going to spin this as going into this summit meeting from a position of strength. they're going to say it's because of our nuclear strength. they are 95% done with their nuclear program. they have one more technical hurdle that they have to cross, which is to show successful re-entry capability but south korea and japan are already under north korean nuclear threat, they have between 20 to 06 nuclear warheads. they've shown icbm capability that can reach all of the united states and they are very close, we're coming in from a position
of strength. >> there's two points -- >> we have to take a break. when we come back, what i'm going to do is ask stanley roth what this meeting would look like, since he's the guy who planned the last high-level meeting, when we come back. ways to lose stubborn belly fat. the roasted core wrap.
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rejecting the offer and there's risk for kim as well because an unsuccessful meeting puts him back under maximum pressure and in the situation or threat to his economy, so nobody is risk-free in this, and i think we should remember this. this is not a clear win. coming to what you talked about, i think the key thing to expect is surprises. when we did the albright trip, first of all, kim jong-il was not supposed to be the host. it was showsed to be marshall joe and yet he ended up being the host. we expected he'd make the initial presentation, instead he turned to secretary albright and asked her to start, and when she stopped in intervals because we were told he didn't like long presentations he had her speak for 30, 45 minutes. it was quite something. there was of course a big surprise unwelcome of the stadium event that propaganda event with the 100,000 athletes charging the stage with fireworks and clapping, so expect surprises, depending on the venue of where this is held which we don't know, there may
be less capacity for major surprises, comparable to the stadium. >> when you say that, because you don't think trump should go to pyongyang. >> i don't think he should go to pyongyang and i don't think kim should come here. i'd prefer the dmz, peace house, because i think it gives excellent access to the rok government. you can have daily conversations after the negotiations, and japan could send a delegation and it's great for coordination, but still, even there, there's less capacity for major surprises, but even at the trivial level of protocol, what if on the one hand kim gives president trump a great big bear hug, how do you respond to that awkward moment? what a bad scenario, he gives him a diatribe about all the u.s. sins going back to lgss about u.s. behavior in the korean war. so the president has to be prepared for that. i think the important point is, one, do the right thing. you're here on an historic first meeting of leaders, shake friends, you don't have to be
best friends. second, expect surprises and try to think of how you deal with them. third, don't be provoked. the worst outcome they trade insults and it becomes a race to the bottom. fourth, stick with your plan. don't try to solve anything. that can be dangerous. remember reagan at rakia vick with gorbachev, one of the scariest in my government service. understand some words don't mean the same with each, denuclearization, you're not here to work out the details to come up with common definitions. try to get a plan for a negotiating process. >> sue mi terry it's possible this won't happen. trump's own national security council seems to be walking back the possibility, by putting on conditions we're only going to do the summit if there's denuclearization. >> i'm getting already a sense nsc is trying to walk back this because before may, it is right around the corner. they understand the danger and
the risk that's going to be involved with premature engaging with kim jong-un right now. when we are prepared, that's fine but it's a little bit too premature. north korea already said denuclearization is not on the table. what actions do they need to take? they're not going to take any more actions. if mr. trump really wants to see him, he will. in terms of the venue, dmz is fine. definite in ily mr. trump shoul go to north korea because the north koreans will spin this into legitimacy, the u.s. president coming to north korea to cowtow to their leader. do the dmz or a neutral country like switzerland or singapore. >> stanley, a quick thought on china. is china happy with the situation in they after all wanted a defusion of tension. this is sort of what the chinese want. >> i think they're happy but conflicted. of course anything that defuses
the situation makes military action less likely, is very positive for them, if it can lead to a negotiating process, even better. at the same time, they've got to be very concerned about the possibilities of a trade war, not just the steps taken but the steps that might be taken and that could influence their willingness to be helpful and third, that's probably a bit of resentment that north korea met with the u.s. president before meeting with the chinese president. that's absolutely extraordinary. >> and the trade war part, what's extraordinary is the south koreans are under the gun with trump's tariffs even at the time we're trying to build a close alliance with them. >> that's right, the fact that this invitation was formally accepted by trump, at the same time trump is saying i'm going to put tariffs on steel and alum num against all these countries around the world and south korea happens to be quite an important exporter to the united states, but he backed away from that significantly, not just on
mexico and kaen canada but sayi anyone can have exemptions and the south koreans said thank you so much, trump, you're brilliant for organizing this meeting with kim jong-un but can we have an exemption. the u.s. government said we'll work on that, we'll take care of the south koreans. >> one last thought, italian elections, ian bremer, this seems to be pretty big news. >> i think this is the most significant anti-establishment vote in a major industrial democracy in decades. over 50% of the italians said they're either for the five-star movement, euro skeptic, the largest party now, or the northern league strongly anti-immigration. the establishment parties are devastated. it's not going to matter that much near-term, because the european economies are still doing well, but the fact that anyone that hoped that macron was sort of like turning the page and now we're pro-globalization, no. the anti-establishment sensibilities across all of
europe are a wave getting stronger and stronger and italy shows that decisively. >> to me, exactly right, the big news is populism is not dead. we have not past peak populism and italy shows that pretty powerfully. thank you all very much. fascinating conversation. for more on italy, i had a chance to interview one of the nation's finest minds about what it all means, go to cnn.com/fareed, see my chat. coming up here on "gps" why tariffs have turned into the biggest political battle in the united states, not between democrats and republicans, but between trump and the republicans. we'll be back in a moment. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. so why accept it from your allergy pills? most pills don't finish the job because they don't relieve nasal congestion. flonase allergy relief is different.
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he handed over his presidency to the establishment wing of the republican party, which proceeded to attack obamacare, roll back regulations and pass a huge tax cuts for companies and wealthy americans. but now, he is moving hard on tariffs and also immigration. as is often the case, trump may be more in line with his party's base than most of its leaders. recent poll finds that voters overwhelmingly oppose trump's tariffs as does the republican establishment, but most republican voters support them. in fact, over the last decade, republican support for free trade has dropped a staggering 20 points. the new republican party is now coming into view. it is a party skeptical about free markets, from adam smith to milton friedman they have recognized free trade is at the heart of what makes capitalism work and they pointed tariffs
are precisely the kind of government intervention that produces inefficiency and corruption, but republicans are now apparently comfortable with government intervention as long as it's for the right people. it is also now a party that has developed a total nalysis. consider trump's tariffs are opposed by a remarkable array of scholars from the conservative heritage foundation to the will libertarian kato to the brookings to the center for economic policy and research. the white house barely offers serious arguments about it instead providing a bogus justification for the tare i haves, national security even though china and russia supply only a tiny portion of these goods to the united states. despite research showing that previous protectionist policies have failed, that the steel industry has lost more jobs due to efficiency in automation than to trade, and that preservegs o preserving one job in the steel
automobile industry through tariffs can cost consumers a whopping $1.5 million administration supporters no longer offer a response. the day is dismissed as partisan spin or fake news and the final point is the gop is being transformed into a party that is basically hostile to foreigners and foreign countries. even traditional allies like the you we europeans are increasingly viewed with great suspicion. it is bizarre to have chosen these tariffs that mostly threaten american allies. now strayed does produce disruptions, especially severe ones in recent decades. the most sensible, cost-effective way to deal with them would be to provide subsidies to workers who lose their jobs because of trade, and then invest in large scale retraining efforts, but that doesn't quite have the bite that attacking foreigners and stoking trade conflict does. having transformed the party's views on issues as diverse as immigration and fiscal discipline, if trump wins the battle over trade with his
party, he will have won the war. the republican party will be history, and given his long demonstrated preferences in this regard, who knows, trump would probably want to rename the party the trump party. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "the washington post" column this week. next on "gps" president obama's former top military adviser martin dempsey, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, on what he'd advise the president to do on military matters, starting with north korea. (vo) do not go gentle into that good night, old age should burn and rave at close of day; rage, rage against the dying of the light. do not go gentle into that good night. ♪
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yeah! yeah, we're the same size in shoes. with t-mobile taxes and fees are already included, so you get four unlimited lines for just $35 bucks each. smile dad. i take medication for high blood pressure and cholesterol. but they might not be enough to protect my heart. adding bayer aspirin can further reduce the risk of another heart attack. because my second chance matters. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. my next guest is general martin dempsey. he was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the highest ranking u.s. military officer, from 2011 to 2015, in that role he was the top military adviser to president barack obama. general dempsey, thanks for joining me. >> good to see you again, fareed. >> the big news is north korea. when you think about the north
korean position, putting yourself in their perspective. >> right. >> their shoes, doesn't this make sense, from their point of view, which is they have now built up a robust nuclear arsenal, intercontinental ballistic missiles that can reach the united states. they have the insurance policy they were looking for all along. >> um-hum. >> now they're willing to talk. i would imagine what they're trying to talk about is regularizing and codifying that reality rather than reversing it. >> well, militarily, which is really my expertise, they can threaten their south korean neighbors with a conventional threat. they have thousands of are till rear pieces and rockets, a raid along the demilitarized zone. they don't need the nuclear capability for south korea. they do need it to threaten us and the other stakeholders like japan and others in the region, and so i suspect they will try
to compartmentalize this, and we'll have to decide or our negotiator also have to decide how compartmentalized do we want it to be. are we trying to bring stability to the korean peninsula which takes you on one path or trying simply to denuclearize. that will be an important decision. >> do you n your analysis of kim jong-un, did you imagine that this might be possible, did he strike you -- because this is a fairly rational process, where he has built up his arsenal to the point where he feels secure, now he's willing to talk. that doesn't sound wild, crazy, irrational. >> i think the path he has put himself on to acquire the nuclear capability is quite rational. some of the tactics along the way have been unimaginably brutal, and you know, caused instability in the region to spike. now, i suspect we'll see all of that come out. you remember the last time when we met, we did have this
conversation about, is he a rational actor. i certainly think he's a rational actor in the sense that he's principally interested in preserving his own regime and his dynasty into the future. the tactics are troubling. we've seen, he's willing to do nearly anything to do that, and this is why this negotiation will be so challenging. >> when you look at the iran deal, what's your assessment and you know, how would you respond to the argument that iranians after the deal have not moderated their behavior. they're still a troublesome force in the region. >> i think it's a little early to tell. we've been at it for a couple of years. i think it's important to note that it wasn't a u.s./iran deal. it was the permanent members of the u.n. security council plus germany and iran, and so again, in the spirit of inclusion, these complex problems are best
solved with, you know, allies and partners and coalitions and teams, rather than unilaterally or autonomously. so i would, you know, the most important thing for me is that we keep that resolve alive, that we will keep pressure on iran, not to go nuclear. can you imagine, by the way, if we were dealing with a nuclear capability north korea, and a nuclear capable iran ti simultaneo simultaneously? that's the definition of a bad day in the pentagon. so i would hope that we would stay strong and resolute and allowing this agreement to move forward, while still keeping pressure on them in otherwise for the other maligned activities that we see out of iran, cyber, weapons were livatiliv proliferation, sur gapts and proxies. i think the iran nuclear accord was important for the time and we have to give it time to see where it leads us. >> we will be right back.
more with general martin dempsey including his take on all the generals that surround trdonald trump, kelly, mattis, mcmaster. is it a good idea to have so many military men running american democracy? fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum tums chewy bites. (avo) if you'rand you've triedlly pain any number of laxatives, probiotics, and fiber, it could be wearing on you. tell your doctor what you've tried and how long you've been at it. linzess works differently from laxatives. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation.
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you're commanding. >> absolutely, and think it's because, if you think about how we've, we as a nation have constructed our national security apparatus, it's through allies and partners, since the '50s, and in fact, we have 53 allies and partners around the globe, 28 in europe and the organization called the north atlantic treaty organization and that's thousand we've built our security. as a result military leaders who have come through that system have learned that to achieve particular outcomes it's not just about achieving them yourself, if you want them to last, it's about achieving them through allies and partners, which can take longer, and can create frictions, but you're more likely to gain the knowledge you need to find optimal solutions. you're more likely to share the burden, so solutions are affordable, and if you find optimal solutions that are affordable, they actually have a chance of enduring. >> let me ask you a question about civil military relations.
>> sure. >> right now. as you know, one of the things that the american military has striven very hard to do is to be independent of the civilian authority, but to also be subordinate to it. >> absolutely. >> we now have a situation where you have generals running core parts of the american government, the secretary of defense is a former general, the chief of staff is a former general, and the national security adviser is a sitting in uniform general. >> right. >> is that, is that smart? i mean, is that, is that too many generals? >> boy, you know, smart is a tough metric for me, but i'll tell you shall it's probably smart in the sense that they're terrific individuals. i mean, they are very capable men. there is precedent of course where you would have these episodic cases where these military ushers may migrate into the administration. i think the reason we're reacting to what we see now is that it's happening all at once,
and they are capable individuals. i worry, as i've said in other, when i've had other opportunities, that we just have to be sure that we don't confuse the american people about our military's relationship with them, and for them, which is everybody, which ever side of the aisle or whatever your politics are, we have to make it clear that we are acting in their best interests, and to the extent that some people now believe the military's holding back their president, and some people believe that just the opposite, not only they're in his way, it's not a healthy thing for civil military relations. so we just to ensure that we continue to make it clear that the military serves the country, and they are non-partisan when it comes to political affiliation. >> and do you think that, is there a danger in a democracy of having so many generals, could
it confuse the public into thinking this is a government run by generals? >> yes, i don't think -- instinctively i don't think there's a risk to our democracy, but i do think that, let's just say hypothetically that the white house goes to the other direction in the next or the election after that. i think there will be a natural instinct for the democratic party to be suspicious of the military and its senior leaders because you know, they are so present in the trump administration. that's not a challenge to democracy. it's actually, frankly, it's a troubling issue for civil military relations and for our profession. >> so i've had former generals very distinguished ones, ones i think -- >> until today. >> -- ones the names the public would know but unfortunately they told me this off the record who said they did think general kelly has politicized his role more than a military person should, that they pointed to mattis and said that's the way
to do it. you take off your uniform. you really are not called general mattis anymore. you're secretary mattis. you are now serving as a civilian leader in a democratic system, and they contrasted that with general kelly, who has been very political in his support for donald trump, made political statements of his own, and of course, admiral mullen said in his view, and admiral mullen's view, politicized even the death of his own son saying president obama didn't call me when my son got killed. is that a distinction worth bearing in mind, between mattis and kelly? >> well, the distinction i think is not between mattis and kelly but between the role of the secretary of defense and the role of the white house chief of staff. the secretary of defense has to deliver national security policy, has to go and argue for a budget. by the way, and all of them have to go and support the president's budget, presuming they've negotiated it to a satisfactory level, but the chief of staff job is inherently
political. the chief of staff is the one who keeps the trains running on time, if. you will. the chief of staff is the one that, after the national security council makes a recommendation, talks about what is this going to mean to our politics, what's it going to mean to midterm elections, what's it going to mean to our caucus -- >> maybe he should be called mr. kelly. >> maybe he should. i actually would support that, fareed, yes. >> always a pleasure having you on, general dempsey, mr. dempsey, whichever. next on "gps" the alarming new statistics about anti-semitism and a disturbing theory on what is driving it, when we come back. most pills don't finish the job because they don't relieve nasal congestion. flonase allergy relief is different. flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one.
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egyptians are preparing to go to the polls in a few weeks, but the country is hardly a beacon of democracy these day. it does bring me to my question. an egyptian pop star was recently sentenced to prison for a joke about what? the nile, the pyramids, the sphinx or the suez canal. stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. my book of the week is "five days in london: may 1940." if you watch "dunkirk" or "darkest hour" and want more, this say short compelling case that adolf hitler almost conquered europe in 1940. britain alone with its entire army surrounded by nazi forces on the french coast but one man fought back and turned the tide. riveting reading. now for "the last look. "we are all aware of the rise
and incidence of hatred and violence against immigrants and more generally minorities in the last year, but a striking statistic makes one aware this is a larger problem than we realize. the number of anti-semitic incidents in the united states surged in 2017, increasing by 57%, according to a new report by the anti-defamation league. you might have thought jews in america could live safely and securely fully assimilated and integrated into the country to which they have contributed so much. but last year, america had its second highest number of reported incidents of harassment, vandalism or assaults against jews or jewish institutions since records began in 1979, with nearly 2,000 such incidents. the adl said it was the largest single year increase on record. this report came out just one week after the southern poverty law center published a study which found the number of neo-nazi hate groups in america grew by 22% last year.
>> black lives matter. >> so why is all this hate rising? one associate director told cnn the current mood in the u.s. has some people feeling more liberated to express their hate. i guess the lesson is that, when leaders unleash the darkest sides of human nature, the hatred can spread to places that might have seemed safe and secure. this report should serve as another very sad reminder to the united states and other nations, not only is there work still to be done but that progress can be undone and quicker perhaps than we think. the correct answer to the "gps" challenge question is "a" the nile. pop star sahreen has a song "if you drink from the nile, you are destined to return" but after she joked at a concert that drinking from the nile would actually give you a parasite she received a "360" month prison sentence for spreading fake news and insulting the state.
Opposite-of-trumpSurround-trdonald-trumpItWayLevelSouth-koreanDrivewayAnnouncementCourseWhite-houseParFrontit's like the pyramids. the buildings dwarf you. the buildings remind you of how unimportant you are because you're so tiny. >> in this big, incredible city, when you see it, it makes you want to come and see it. it makes you curious about it. it makes it something bigger than life. >> i have strong feelings about new york, everything that makes up new york. we're the crossroads of the world. this is the center of the universe. i mean, there's no place that gets more people from more different places. you sort of get like a view of
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