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Transcripts For SFGTV 20140612

the western end, that sends a clear message to the dealers and then for the user which are prevalent in the area, the drug court is located in the tender loin. and anybody arrested that is a user would be a candidate for drug court which has been effective. >> thank you, so much for coming. and taking the time to share your concerns with us because we do often talk about the number of families in the area. one suggestion that i had talked about that we did successfully as a neighborhood prosecutor in haze valley was partnering with the community members to have the district attorney office and you are lucky to have karin, and a great city attorney, also, to identify the frequent fliers and the returning drug dealers who are returning to the same corners that the district attorney office can flag those and in a disposition, which is negotiating whatever the plea is, if the community mostly wants a stay away order and that is something that i know that the district attorney office has done a great job with and so i think that it sounds like you have all of the component parts to put together something that the community voice is heard in the courtroom and so you can break that cycle to some degree with some of the drug dealers and i think that we have had success in that and i urge you to connect with karin and the district attorney in the office. thank you for taking the time and if you have your family it is clear how much your community matters to you. >> what you are talking about is maybe at that border, that maybe doing like a special operation? >> right. so if we will pair off them and yes. >> thank you. >> and i am just wondering, and if it is a question more for the chief, is there a way for us to like the folks are sophisticated enough to know where the borders are and it is not just this one location, can the district officers cross over and go a block over, is there a way when we do the redistricting to overlap them by a block so we don't have these gaps potentially where the folks can hide out? >> i am happy to discuss, we have never done the overlapping thing before, that seems if there is no ownership that could be a problem but i am happy to actually include you or any of the other commissioners as we look at redistricting. and we just had a preliminary meeting with the consultants that are accumulating all of the data on redistricting that is required by the chart and her they should be coming back with some early iterations of the potential maps and i know that one thing that we did not do, last time, is look at things like things that are just outside of the data but we as forever as police officers in san francisco, we know that there are certain anomalies like it used to be that levenworth was the border and we ran into the same thing where people and the west side of the street was one district and the east side was the other and so trying to find blocks that are a little more neutral like van ess avenue as the dividing line where there are clear barriers and then when you have a problem block, like larkin street that just one station has ownership of it. and so that will be something and greg and all of the other captains have been solicited for their input for the certain anomalies but it happened certainly from the prosecutorers and or the public defenders in the city know those areas. >> right. >> and so it is an expertise that you possess that you might not think about. >> the second idea that i had and i have seen in the past that we have had sort of the special operations targeting the schools and play grounds and adding in the enhancements if there is drug dealing going on within the 500 feet of that playground and 1,000 feet and just basically a block and so i am wondering if given this particular location, >> right. >> and i don't know if we are starting that idea. >> and we do things like that in the operation and we did do with the dea and the u.s. attorney's office and the eastern end of the district. was specifically targeted at those people that were traffickers and bringing narcotics in that were within the district and within the limits of schools and we did apply those enhancements and so i am happy to revisit that with the u.s. attorney and the dea. >> sure. >> thank you very much. >> next speaker. >> thank you. ladies and gentlemen, of the audience and commissioners good evening, i am lawrence and i have been away for 4 and a half months because i have been completing criminal investigation courses. i could not attend on tuesday wednesday or thursday night, but very briefly i wanted to bring up before i get into my actual subject is that i work for hud in 2005 and 2003, to 2005, putting ex-cons in the tender loin that get out of prison, and part of the job is that when they get out of prison after a 8, 10, 12-year sentence, the federal government gives you ten dollars and sends you on the street and call up hud and hud to get an apartment in the tender loin for up to a year, while they get their stuff together, about 60 percent of these guys go back to prison after one or two years. and very briefly, i would like to talk about two things, quickly. i watched the presentation in the neighborhood and i think that the gentleman that spoke in the beginning is right that you should do this conference in the community. and you should push to get as many community people to show up as possible. not just a handful because you put a sign here and there and so his point was well taken with me at least any way. and two is that also it is time to talk about restructuring all of the districts and we have eleven voting districts but we have a mixed bag of police districts that crisscross across all of them and i think that we should talk at some point down the road is that the match, the police districts with the voting districts. and so the people would know exactly who to deal with at any given time in the voting district, and what supervisor and what captain of what precinct. and i think that if you look at it across the board here it creates a lot of confusion for the public at large, and no offense that the captain that spoke tonight is that it would be helpful if he printed a bunch of the phone numbers of the station for the brochure as well, so they will know who to call at any given time with a problem. last, is this, is that i have come back here after a few months and i see that we have a big change here in terms of commissioners but i look on the commissioner list there is no abrupt changes and they come and go as please or off the e-mail sight or search a web site, with no explanation whatsoever is who is taking whose place, i think that it is about time that you start announcing, for the public ad large, and start getting lay men, instead of the attorneys hand picked by the mayor to be on the commission, the people in the population that should know about an upcoming position as commissioner and they apply for it. and then you can turn them down, or accept them. i thank you for your time on these issues. >> thank you, next speaker? >> good evening, my name is jackie bryson and i am here already to apprise the chief of what i am about to say, it is a housekeeping issue which is sort of funny but not really, as i struggle to get here, on muni, when it finally showed. yes, we have all had a good laugh on that one, thanks a lot unions. and i took the 5 l so that i could get here on time. and i have to get off across the street on van ess which is a nice place to have district boarders i agree with the barriers. and i struggle across vaness and managed not to get hit by a car and on the sidewalk and not get hit by a bicycle or a skateboarder, or an idiot and i struggled up the access to get to the door, and i pushed the button, and i can can't et door to open so that i can get inside of the building and it is only about 5:15. and so i managed to scurry and it is a term that i use often for myself to the end door and i was able to actually make the door that turns around and i actually did it, and got inside, just as a deputy was getting ready to lock it. i said, why was i not able to get my disabled access into this building from this side of the building? and he said, well we normally lock the door at 5:00 p.m. and i looked at him and i said, isn't there a police commission meeting tonight? and so he goes and there is a thing that has all of the events that are going on in city hall posted. you were posted for 5:30, what is a girl to do, show my super powers and walk through walls that is absurd, the door needs to remain unlocked at least until 5:30, if not, at least until a quarter of 6:00, what you don't want the public to be able to come to the police commission meetings? we are not even talking about neighborhood meetings being relocated here. but like i said, what is a girl supposed to do? walk through walls? i am wonderful but i am not going to show you everything that i can do like walk through a wall, i am done. >> thank you. >> next speaker? >> good evening. >> good evening. >> greg maratana from the japan town neighborhood. the captain reported about the little and the wonderful stickers that mo magic made and we put on just the parking meters because that is the only place that they could go and they went up the first part of march and i just want to report to the captain that in february, they were like 27 auto boosts, and dropped to 17 in march and 15, and then down to 7 this last month. and so, so far, the pilot and it looks like it is helping. and so, i just wanted to report that, you know, the captain came up with this working together, and we got some of these young people to put these on, and unfortunately, we may have to go back to mo magic because the stickers unfortunately are fading very quickly and so the colors are and the message is there but it is fading so we are going to have to maybe do something, but we will figure that out if it works out later. so the good news is that things are improving in the community. and however, because of the crime that had been increased before, the main and some of the businesss in japan town have now formed through sf safe, and they have formed the japan town business watch group. and now, that these people are communicating a small group of them, it is amazing how many of these be on the look outs have gone up. but it has helped to prevent some other merchants from being victimized because they have got a photo with some of the places that have cameras. and we would continually like to work with the business watch group, and we would like to work with sf safe to look at how to get more training there, but also the issue of the surveillance in terms of cameras. and we have met with a gentleman from the union square, business improvement district. and so we are looking at it and of course it is going to take a little resource but we appreciate what sf safe has been able to do and we acknowledge the fact that williams station has made an out reach and has done something that has moved forward and it is small. you know, we will take it. and but the only thing that the community is really looking for, is that there used to be two beat cops, going through jtown, and that made a whole bigger difference and because they knew them and they all asked for wane and they have not been around for a long time. and if i might as far stickers, the captain is nothing short of heroic. >> you are right. >> but what he had to do to get those stickers on the parking meters and it was pointed out to both of us where they are just going to fade and we begged could we just put them on there to see if they work? and so, now that you have these statistics that you can give to the captain and i think that we can get, and we talked about, that we would then go back and find a durable sticker, and then move it to i see, the captain is the new captain of the southern and the lieutenant dahani are a legend in the western edition from the years past and so now we can get, and now that we have some data that we can tap, we could probably get those stickers made into something that will be more permanent. >> would i like to wait until august because the highest number was 35. >> and he does not have any numbers right now any way, so just give him the numbers >> let's wait until we get the numbers and we can show that the trend is positive that way. but, yes, i mean that i think that it is making a difference because you know, the merchants understand that if the auto boost happens out on the street, they are going to go home. >> i guess the song goes that we will see you in september. >> that is right. >> thank you. >> please come forward. >> again we have the interpreter, so please provide additional time. >> [ speaking in a foreign language ] . >> good evening, my name is margarita and i belong to the organization known as latin voice i have been living in the tender loin and i have come to ask for your support. because, on market street, for a long time, for many years now, that there is a lot of vandalism and often, there is people fighting out on the street. and selling drugs. and the families in the tender loin walk by with the children and they are facing huge danger. and we need your help. >> and we are willing in the best way possible to cooperate for the police, and the station police, in order to improve the area thank you. >> thank you very much. >> okay. >> next speaker? >> good evening, sir. >> >> mr. president, and vice president, commissioners, my name is thomas simpson. and i run an arts organization at the african american art and culture complex. we focus mostly on adults, but sometimes we do community engagement projects with youths. this year, as a result of some research i found, in terms of the number of african american youth who are incarcerated we decided to do something focused on black kids. and connecting them with all of the black men, and for inspiration and up lift and some other things. and as part of my working on this project, and i have had some focus groups with some young black boys. and in one of these groups, something was said that startled me that may not startle everyone else but it did me that i like to share, we talked about education and relationships and gangs, and the police, and we began to talk about who we would like to have at a particular event. that is going to take place on august the 16th, and i thought, well we have to have something from the legal arena come and speak and be a part of the event. and one of the kids was a little shaken by that. and asking him why he was shaken by that. he mentioned that if he had to run on someone on the street, he would rather run into a gang member who he did not know, than a policeman, to me it is startling but maybe it is not. he felt that he could negotiate himself out of a issue with a gang member and not be able to negotiate himself out of a meeting with the police. if some issue arose. around this time or something happening in the valencia garden and in asking some other kids is this usual, or unusual? and i have to say that i found it to be not so unusual for black kids and so with all of the out reach that you are doing, and that you are planning and that is happening, i hope that you will consider the population of the young, black, youth, particularly of 13, to 17. >> that is the exact group that we are focusing on. >> and the youth in the south east section of the city and the mission and the fillmore. >> and that statement that i said, is that something that is unusual? >> i would say that it is all too common for me and i think that it will be more uncommon as we go forward. >> thank you. >> and let me just say, that it was not uncommon, but those young people, they need to get some officers in front of them right away, i mean, i am sure that jason johnson and i can get the officers right there so you can have the discussions with the police officers. and here is the, they don't like be profiled and i don't like them profiling our officers and if he feels that way, let's get the officers in front of them to begin to connect with them and deal with those issues because i don't want them growing up, you know, and it is not going to work. so i can give you the names of the officers and i know some officers that would be very happy to come. >> and i was going to say that there are way more cool cops than there are uncool cops. and so we don't need to jason is not, you know he is not the only game in town if you tell me the neighborhoods that you are talking about there are tons of great cops and northern station and they would take exception as the commissioner says, at getting pinned with a broad stroke and they would want to literally live it down and have that conversation. >> i think that i would agree with you, but i think that there is the perception. >> we are only going to beat it back by having the conversation. >> and i think that i am in your complex all of the time, and the shakespearean productions there all of the time and i have also been, the president in the board and the former president of the board and the community center and so i know what the officers in the northern district do, in that district, and if you are having an event on august the 16th and you think that you need to, and we need to be there, and i think that we, i will make the promise to be there and i will work with the captain or anybody else to make sure that you have officers there. and great, cops. to start to change that, perception, because, that is absolutely the wrong perception that we, and that the kids have and we want to have that perception, changed. >> i know. and just to balance it out, you know. the captain he has the cops coaching the sea hawk football and the cops in the hutch and there are recruits coming from the academy and working the leagues and the fitness program that he was just talking about and coordinated through and is also in the district and these are the officers working all of these things and i believe that the academy was at the fillmore ymca and that was our dedicated youth program that the last academy class that graduated from was spending four hours a month and then there is a lot of momentum and we don't want to leave any kids with. >> totally. >> without it. >> and we are not going to please everybody, but i think that we need to have that conversation. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and i mean, that you and in all fairness there was an incident at valincia gardens and i think that the officers really do a good job working with the youth. >> these kids don't live in the garden but this is something that they heard that happened. >> it was on the news. >> it got the press and it was in november and now we are heading into the middle of june and so it is tough, you know, and the officers do so many great things. and they get just a they get five minutes of, for instance, the event that that happened, that was the day that bat kid happened, and before the sunset on bat kid we were over shadowed, and the rest of the world did not know about the gardens but in san francisco it was over shadowed by the gardens and now the officers do these unbelievable things, for instance, jason johnson taking a group of kids to africa, and raising all that have money by himself. and that was our weekend story, i think in the morning and nobody else is talking about it. >> so, bad stuff sticks and the good stuff does not to, and we are happy to have as many conversations as we need to, the officers are putting so much heart into their work these days, that i hate to have them, again, pinned with a broad stroke. >> and i just want to, in my point is this, not all of the kids all of the time. stop putting cops in front of them, you tell them and they can have it out. the only way that a young man is going to feel differently is if you put an officer in front of him and you can say that to him and they can go back and forth. >> all right. >> and i was cut off and i do agree with the chief there is just a lot of good that the officers are doing. it is something that if you have an opportunity to hook them up, that would be great because i think that will see a different side of the police department. >> commissioner loftus. >> we are not going to let you sit down. >> i just want to say that for my colleagues we are so passionate about kids and so you are getting a lot of reactions, but i am just really grateful that you took the time to share that with us and part of the thing of the voice of the youth and making sure that they are heard in the circles of power and the fact that you took the time to share that with us and you can say and commit back and have the actions nobody can say it better than dr. marshall about putting cops in front of the young people and he has better ideas than i do, and i just want to say that our reaction and ideas and thoughts, are really a function of how much we care about this issue and the chief has made so much progress and so it is one of those things what i was saying before is that we have nine homicides instead of 45 and the first thing that comes out of my mouth is what can we do more? and the first thing that i want to say is acknowledging how much this department has committed to kids and clearly from what you are sharing, how much more we have to do and we need to hear the people coming forward and reminding us and i want to thank you for taking the time. >> thank you. >> next speaker? >> good evening, barbara. >> good evening, commissioners sorry for the delay, everybody got up for the same time. and some time ago, i had mentioned about, i think, that there should be an investigation of the pro-bait department and i think that i forgot to mention the reason why, they don't require corresponding bank statements that the conservetors type up and present to the judges and i requested it and i got something that did not correspond. and i think that they, and anything that is submitted without a corresponding bank statement is hot air on paper. i like to call it legalized fraud. and when you are ail little nobody, who under the thumb of your husband who wants a cheap divorce and keep the house and not pay alimony. i know about the no rights and it sounds like that was this other gentleman, but it is the idea that we have to have an investigation and the lawyers don't go out of the way to tell you what your rights are that are in the probate department section. they do, as little as possible. and at the end, i got a wrongful bill forget out of it or i am divorced and it is $18,000, i was told, $6,700. thank you. >> thank you. >> good to see you again. >> next speaker? >> i am sergeant yamagutchi. >> >> are you ready for it? >> as longs you understand what is happening here, you have a lady who is brandishing a crock pot of hot oil. i, it was so much that i had to retreat into my residence. i think that the problem is that the officers came out, there was an assault in the battery and there were two counts of assault and battery, and a terrorist threat and a brandishing of a weapon. and the police officers did not make an arrest. this person, they came back to the building, and maybe, three or four hours later. it just seems like this is the northern station, and let me play another one. >> time is running two minutes they don't want to make an arrest and i asked for a ca form it seems like i asked for several things and i don't get any of that. and they just, they just anger me, and they traumatize me, and then they just leave. that is northern station and that is the northern station that i know. and the confiden

Transcripts For CSPAN3 Naval Warfare In The American Revolution 20141025

command talksal about the naval warfare in the american revolution. he describes how ships in the colonies fought not just in the as far away as the mediterranean sea and the indian ocean. this event was sponsored by the society of cincinnati. it took lace at the engine house in washington dc. >> good evening. my name is kendall casey and i am the museum education manager for the american revolution institute and i am pleased to welcome you to anderson house. the american revolution institute promotes the knowledge and appreciation of the achievement of american independence, for filling the aim of the continental army officers who founded the society in 1783. the institution supports advanced scholarships, conduct public programs, and makes resources available to teachers and students to enrich the understanding of the war of independence and to the principles of the men and women who secured the liberty of the american people. if you are not out our public program mailing list and would like to be, you can fill out the form you found on your chair. we also have our fall public program out front if you don't have a copy and would like one. tonight i am pleased to introduce dr. dennis conrad, who will speak about the changes to naval warfare during the spring of 1778. dr. conrad as a historian at the naval history and heritage command. as a editor of the naval documents of the american revolution series, and is one of the authors of "sea raiders of the american revolution." he is currently the lead historian for electronic document to him as the spanish-american war. dr. conrad received his doctorate from the university. [applause] >> my purpose here tonight is to highlight the publication of volume 12 of naval documents of the american revolution. it is a little difficult, hawking a book that even your publisher is less than enthusiastic about. to quote a blurb, "this book is a key scholarly resource for a narrow group, naval and military historians and researchers of early american history and the revolutionary war, who require primary source materials. potentially interested may exist with some military and revolutionary war enthusiast, students studying this war may be interested in the naval perspective through this comprehensive source." but the president of the united states is very enthusiastic about volume 12 so it balances out. unlike the government printing office, i think volume 12 is an important book that should enjoy a wide audience. i am hoping we will put it up online at the naval history and heritage command website in the not too distant future. you won't have to pay the $99 in costs to buy the letterpress edition. although a period covered by volume 12, april and may of 1778, is a small number of time, a number of changes occurred, changes that would significantly affect how the war was fought and contribute greatly to its outcome. the most important of these developments was the internationalization of the war. with the dispatch of a french fleet on 13 april bound for american waters. the signing of a treaty was obviously a major event. it was not, however, i guarantee that the french would commit to naval resources to support american independence or to operate in american waters. in fact, the first request made by the american commissioners in france, asking that the french navy convoy attacked american merchants was denied. while the french leadership was unwilling to commit resources to protect american commerce, they were willing to commit their navy to assist the americans. in able to move that was credited to the triumvirate of sartine, his assistant, and the chevalier, the french decided to dispatch the squadron to american waters. since the british had few ships in the mediterranean, they were free to go on the offensive. at the same time, the presence of a larger french squadron, the threat of a cross channel invasion, and concerns supported by intelligence that was incorrect but on good authority, that the spanish were preparing to enter the war as allies of the french, disquieted the british and forced them to keep significance naval forces in the english channel and to delay sending a reinforcement under admiral john byron to north america. byron first received orders to sail with reinforcements to america on 3 may, but avoidable delays and a decision by the lords of the admiralty, postponed to the departure of this relieving fleet until the british fleet commander got "good intelligence of the fleet" and "is satisfied it is down to america or the west indies." it did not sail until 7 june. the indecision grew when "foul weather jack," his fleet, encountered horrific weather that to battered and scattered it, according them to arrive well before british reinforcements. the riskiness of the decision to send it to american waters should not be minimized. had the british dispatched quickly, they might have been trapped and lost. french planners understood that the possible benefits outweigh the possible dangers and acted decisively. had to the execution of the strategy than as bold as the planning, the french navy could well have ended the war in the spring of 1778. vice admiral howtz's fleet was badly scattered and was inferior. moreover the british army abandoned philadelphia on 18 june to move to new york city. while that army marched overland, it shipped the bulk of its stores on merchant men which moved slowly and in a disorganized fashion down the delaware river to delaware bay and then north to new york. haddad arrived earlier, he could have captured this enormous prize, crippled the fleet, and could have blockaded the city. the large british garrison there depended almost entirely on supplies shipped in from elsewhere. without that resupply it probably could have forced a surrender. however, this did not happen, because the fleet was slow getting to american waters. although it sailed on 13 april, it took more than a month for the spanish fleet to pass the straits of gibraltar. documents published in volume 12 demonstrate that our adverse weather, poor sailing, faulty equipment, the need to go as fast as the slowest chip, and the use of the voyage as a training exercise, caused the squadron to proceed across the atlantic that can only be described as leisurely. one of the most informative documents in the volume is the station bill for the flagship. here it is in the original and our french and english translation. it demonstrates clearly how they used the voyage to america to train officers. the station bill not only gives the station of every officer during combat that also detailed the instructions regarding their duties, such as -- on the poop deck, [indiscernible] -- as near as possible, will command to the maneuvers and musketry and watch over the rapidity of fire. another place in the station where they say, "every commander of a gun division will have control over the men attached to each gun. he will do his best to become personally acquainted with all his men and notes those who show the most seal and intelligence and those who distinction themselves in combat." while the french fleet may have been better prepared as a result of this training, its slow progress across the atlantic meant that it did not arrive at the delaware capes until 8 july. by that time the chance to defeat the fleet before could collect and retreated to a strong defensive position in new york or to capture the british army had passed. despite this opportunity, the nature of the naval war had changed dramatically. internationalization of the war meant that no longer could the british assumed they had unchallenged control of american waters or even the english channel. another effect can be gleaned from how will's reports to the admiral. "service in american waters was hard and british ships and crews suffered accordingly." british commanders in north america were thus put "between a rock and a hard place," as there was no facility to -- the british had plans to establish one. to rotate ships to england for refit and repair left of the american fleet week but to keep those vessels on station, as howe and his successors were often forced to do, reduced their effectiveness. one of the congenital factors in the french naval victory at the battle of the virginia capes in 1781 was the poor condition of the british fleet. the spring of 1778 also saw a dramatic change in british naval strategy. the british deemphasized the war in heartland america. as mentioned, they abandoned philadelphia and consolidated forces in new york and rhode island. they eventually abandoned the latter, as well. under the new strategy, mobile detachments sent by water from new york to destroy american forces in detail, to rate american seaports to keep down american privateering activity, and to support a british attempt to hold up a self-supporting loyalist base. thus the focus of british efforts would be the west indies and the periphery of the united states. in a letter to lord howe, the lords of the admiralty spelled out the new strategy. to reinforce east and west -- it was a viable strategy. however, fear of invasion caused british leadership to limit reinforcements to its army and navy in america. because of this the british were overextended and outnumbered in the united states and west indies. new york was a difficult position to hold, which limited the troops available for detaching, and as a result of written forfeited naval initiative in the western hemisphere and became increasingly reactionary. the concentration of royal forces in american waters did open up opportunities for british and loyalist privateers, a trend that would continue until war's end. because howe feared such privateering would result in desertion from royal navy ships and would provide a smaller pool from which to draw sailors, he eventually had to give way. as a result, the royal governor began issuing letters of mark and reprisal in august, 1778. this excessive privateers operating out of bermuda, sent augustine, and especially new york became more and more evident, and they garnered greater official support and had a greater impact on american shipping. the continental navy saw changes during this period, too. in the period of march to may, 1778, the continental navy had six ships captured and destroyed -- the alfred, the randolph, the columbus, the virginia, the washington, and the effingham. william mallory wrote to a friend, "our little fleet is much thinned." "only one has been captured on the ocean." these losses called into question the competence and character of the continental navy's leadership, particularly its ship commanders, and also forced a changed in the role the continental navy played. unable to contest british dominance in the bays and sees a surrounding the major cities of the united states, american seamen were pushed to the peripheries were they enjoyed some success. in north america, there were two areas, nova scotia and east florida, where american vessels dominated in the spring of 1778, and a third, the mississippi river, where they could realistically hope to contest a british dominance. in nova scotia, privateers from new england so invested, the term used by contemporary, the residents of liverpool voted to dismantle the town's fort and to inform american privateers men that "if they attempted to land under arms we should oppose them, but if they did not, they are offered to take a vessel out of the river and we shall not molest them." in georgia, gunboats, manned in large part by continental soldiers, scored a dramatic victory over the royal navy. to check an invasion of east florida by the southern continental army, captain thomas jordan led a force of three vessels to save simon's inlet in georgia, destroying three galleys. instead, the british squadron was soundly defeated in two of the vessels and it were captured. it was a germanic victory and gave the americans control of the inner coaster waters all the way from charleston to saint augustine, thus threatening the very existence of british east florida. well in active -- they were able to coddle together a naval defensive force, thus mitigating the damage and unrelated issues halted the american advance toward saint augustine. it was nonetheless an important victory and established at least for a very short time american dominance in those water, and could have changed the course of the war and the american deep south. then i wouldn't have had a career because there would have been no nathanael greene. another success was on the periphery and early 1778, occurring along the mississippi river. the origins of the expeditions to conquer west florida go back to the summer of 1777, when the governor of louisiana received a letter from colonel george morgan. it proposed a 1000 man american expedition against pensacola. galvez would provide intelligence and transport and artillery powder and provision. his response was equivocal but probably more convincing was the fact that the flotilla returned laden with arms and ammunition and provisions. after much debate, american leaders decided to dispatch a much scaled-down expedition. james welling, a captain, and 1029 man went in a boat, arriving unmolested into the heart of english territory, his party captured and ravaged a number of british settlements. they also captured several vessels, one of which was later turned into an american warship. at natches, they convinced the inhabitants to sign of oath of neutrality. he might have successfully captured west florida, however the americans began plundering those not considered friends, thus creating a pool of disaffected who were instrumental in helping the british to reestablish authority. one result of the willing expedition was that it almost sparked a war between england and spain. welling's party was too small to be viable without the help of galvez, who helped extend american raters "the the sacred right of neutrality." the english saw him as aiding and assisting and abetting his majesty's rebellion, looking upon them as separate and distinct powers. galvez also disposed of plunder accumulated by the raiders. in a letter to lord's george germane, peter chester, argued that "the only effectual method to truly address our injuries after all other methods have been tried would be to make reprisals and detain spanish property until ample restitution was made." therefore it was not a paranoid rant but an appreciation of the situation that led a beleaguered yet to determine galvez to write his superior on 14 april, "it seems the english are plotting an attack on the city," new orleans. "although the reception given to set americans is the same as in ports of europe and the islands of america, against which the english take no revenge, they see the town as defenseless. i already have two frigates in front of the city and according to this, an additional two or three are expected. one is at the mouth of the river. they cannot have any other object but this town and no business to attend to in natches. i have been informed that the commander of these frigates is a brutal man, willing to commit any kind of transgression without regard for consequences. it appears he intends to demand i turn over the americans, especially the commander in his party, and opened fire and destroy the city if i do not cecede. his lordship knows i cannot accept such a demand, and that i should be determined to defend said americans and their prizes and use all forces at my disposal although they are few for this purpose." it was a testament to the strength of galvez and to his friendship toward the united states that he was not cowed into submission by british divination. as oliver pollock reported to congress in a letter, "i cannot include this important subject without giving the greatest applause to governor galvez for his noble spirit and behavior on this occasion. though he had no batteries erected or men to defend the place against the two ships of war, with a hundred men all coming against him, and he laughed at their haughtiness and despised their attempts and in short they returned." what then ensued was an elaborate game of chicken which went on for several months and was not resolved until chester received a letter from lord george germane on 5 august, forbidding him from taking the "rash step" of "seizing spanish property." by then the material willing had exhausted the patience of both galvez and pollock so that both were dedicated to getting him out as quickly as possible. galvez went so far as to allow pollock to put out an armored vessel. even so, it was november before welling departed against a privately owned sloop. the sloop was captured at sea dwelling was taken prisoner. welling languished in british custody for almost two years before his captors permitted his exchange in late 1781. while the welling expedition boosted galvez's reputation, it was a failure for the americans. contrary to expectations, it did not permanently open the mississippi river to american commerce. in fact, the river was less available for american youth after the raid. it also hardened sentiment in british west florida in joining the american cause. clark's assessment of the exhibition is spot on -- "plunder is the prevailing passion and the country can expect little service." therefore, and west florida as in georgia and nova scotia, the americans were unable to transform temporary advantage into long-term success. in afghanistan and i had a thousand 50 eight, the british had reinforced with the nova scotia's and had undertaken an offensive against georgia. however, the idea that the continental navy cannot stand to protect the heartland prevailed. americans who attacked the british english scientist is not expected in european waters in 1778. an example of the latter was an activity of the rhode island privateer marlborough on the coast of africa. let's consider european waters. while a number of continental vessels were dispatched to european waters, including two continental frigates, the activities of which are covered extensively in volume 12, there were two continental navy captains who did the most. cunningham and jones. between may, 1777 and may, 1778, cunningham and the continental navy captured 24 british vessels, including six in the months of the spring of 1778 and they are detailed in volume 12. thanks to the onslaught of british commerce by cunningham and others in european waters, british maritime insurance increased to 28% of the value of the cargo, higher than they had been at any time during the seven years war. it is little wonder that the pirate cunningham became a hated man in england. another, probably more famous, captain who brought the fight to the british was john paul jones. while the battle between his command and the british ship is the one americans know best, jones's 28 day voyage into the sloop of spring of 1778 probably had more impact on british public opinion and the conduct of the war. sailing -- they captured and destroyed british merchant men and a british navy ship, and most notably executed a land rate against the northern british coastal town of whitehaven and an estate, which is right on the border between england and scotland. at the former, jones tried unsuccessfully to burn some 200 merchant vessels lying aground. he attempted to capture the earl of silk or who jones believed could be exchanged for a great number of american seamen. while the attempted arson was thwarted and the earl was away from home and really wasn't important enough to command the kind of exchange jones envisioned, the fact that jones and his crew landed on british soil twice and escaped demonstrated the vulnerability of english coastal towns, 4s jones put it in his report, "what was done is sufficient to show that not all their bolster navy can protect their own coast and that the seams of distress which they have occasion in america may soon be brought home to their own." it provoked a firestorm of criticism of the admiralty. "it is something strange and worthy of particular note is that at a time when the ministry are boasting of an invincible fleet which they have fitted out which is now writing it to spit head, that a little american privateer should not only ravage the coast of the kingdom but fight and take his majesty's sloops of war. it is the particular plague of the present times to rely upon appearances and neglect realities, to put the nation to a vast expanse and do little or nothing for it." that was a london newspaper. such fears concerning the vulnerability of england strengthened the hand of those who argued that greater resources should be committed to the defense of the island, which was the goal of american planners when they committed the continental may be to this risky strategy. finally, the rate strengthened the perception in europe that the younger public might actually survive as a nation. according to a neutral italian observer in the french court, it vigorous. thus, i think it can be safely argued the actions of cunningham, and especially jones, when paired with the entry of the french into the war, was a game changer. the coast of west africa was another area where they enjoyed success in early 1778. the cruise documented inviting 12 -- demonstrated how american privateers fared in those waters. testimony in 1778 included volume 11, analyzing the effect of the war on african trade did before the war, 200 ships engaged in the trade. by 1778, that number had been reduced to 40 and 15 of those were taken by american privateers. most american privateers cruised for slave ships near barbados, which meant complete cargoes of slaves and because of its proximity to the coast, which lessened the danger of capture, if you operated directly on the african coast, which should come as knows prize that a rhode island privateer would operate in those waters, since rhode islanders actively engaged in the african slave trade before and were familiar with those waters. there was no record captain babcock sailed on slaving voyages. certainly, john brown of providence had been involved in the slave trade all his life. marlborough was a 250-ton ship navigated by a crew of 125. it sailed from new bedford before the new year. volume 12 picks up its story off the cape verdean islands. the crew sailed east and then southward along the guinea coast towards the english trading settlement. and route -- en route, marlborough captured five vessels, persuaded a british master to act as a pilot for them, negotiated a mutually-beneficial deal with a local tribal leader, and then burned his settlement when the british factors refused to surrender the property they held. the climax of the cruise came off cape messer auto -- "there came a canoe from shore with a black king named robin gray. steering from mesorado, when we hear of a slave ship ready to sail for the west indies. all sales set running with our fleet after us. at 2:00 p.m., we made the anchor, all hands getting ready to engage as needed. at 5:00 p.m., we came up with the ship and anchor. the captain ordered them to strike their colors, which they immediately did. at the same time, running under their stern. the prize proved to be captain william allinson mounting 16 guns with a cargo of 300 slaves as well as ivory and rice, a very lucrative prize." after missing a second slaver that he had intelligence of, babcock decided to return to north america. obviously, not before having dealt a heavy blow to the english-african slave trade. finally, and while this is not unique for the spring of 1770 eight, volume 12 demonstrates that attitudes among sailors in the continental navy were becoming more volatile and they were exercising more agency in their own situation. by law, a naval captains authority was awesome and the tools he could wield to enforce his will aboard ship were formidable. but documentation in volume 12 illustrates the other side of the coin, that sailors were not powerless and they could influence matters far more than one would think even the imbalance of power, at least on paper, between captains and the enlisted. recruiting skilled sailors was such a struggle that officers had to accept cemented -- seamen of dubious loyalty and chose to accommodate the wishes of their group in order to keep them content and dissuade them from desertion and mutiny. john paul jones gave into the demands of his men and allowed actions that neither officer believed was legitimate. when jones discovered that the earl was not home, he wanted to leave the estate unmolested but capitulated to his men's assistance that they repay the british for the destructive raids they were conducting on american port towns by allowing his crew to loot the estate. in the end, he got his men to agree to take the family silver. this cost jones personally since he later helped it necessary for his honor to purchase the silver from his men and return it. similarly, cunningham allowed his men to seize british goods bound in a neutral vessel even though the continental congress had determined the practice by france that free ships make free goods. the capture cause major problems for cunningham and angered america's allies. they also put their enterprises at risk by signing on seamen whose loyalty was neither to them or the united states. in going 12, when he came into conflict with his principal lieutenant, thomas simpson, john paul jones found that most of his crew, recruited from simpson's hometown, cited with simpson. in another instance, a member of the party sent to burn the shipping in whitehaven decided that this was his chance to return home early and he deserted and alerted the townspeople, limiting the damage done by the raiders. in another instance recounted in volume 12, captain samuel tucker of the continental frigate boston, narrowly escaped death by the timely discovery and suppression of a plot aboard his vessel. as boston was completing its refit in france, two or three englishmen in that city hatched a plot to seize the frigate and sale it to england. plan was for them to sign on as seamen and join disaffected crewmen and if you'd deserter's -- and a few deserters. they would seize the ship to ensure the success of the mutiny and neutralize the ships marines. this they sought to do by embezzling a marine sergeant. he played a long and then informed tucker. the plan was diabolical and included adding opium to the drinking water water of the officers, the latter of which were to be murdered. he denounced the schemers and the ringleaders escaped. ironically, he himself later successfully petitioned french authorities for relief, claiming ill-treatment. this very brief summary of events from the spring of 1778 demonstrates that it truly was a time of seachange in which the naval war of the american revolution was conducted. thank you. [applause] questions. uh-oh. >> i was struck by your comment from the writings of john paul jones that the british navy was a boasting navy. i was also struck by the fact that the british navy had a very small presence in the mediterranean, so small that it could not protect the things it wanted to. further struck the fact that, in the americas, they could not repair any ships. they had to be rotated back. >> they could do some repairs. they could go up to halifax or down to bermuda. they had some facilities down there. the plan was to possibly make new york into a refit center. that was never finalized and one of the reasons why the british end up in north town in 1871 -- i do not know if you are a sailor, but to get by the sandy hook, the bar, is very difficult. that is why they did not attack the british in new york harbor. he sat out almost three weeks because he was trying to get over the bar, but his ships were too big and he was afraid he would have to take all of the cannons out, which would make them vulnerable, obviously. the reason they went down to the virginia capes or why cornwallis was sent there was to create a more modern port that the british would use and the idea was that they would set up some sort of facility there to refit or ships. but you are right. it was difficult because they were constantly cruising, patrolling, looking for american commerce, which was a lucrative for the captains also. this was the day of prizes. if you captured a full american vessel, and you are a captain, you got most of the take and the crew got a piece of it as well. so they could do minor, but in order to really refit a ship and repair it, you had to go back to england, to the shipyards there. like i said, that was the case. a couple of the ships on the line were practically sinking. they were staying afloat because they were constantly using their pops and -- pumps but that did not make a difference because they could not keep up and it slowed the process exponentially. yes, ma'am? >> at the beginning of the revolution, the colonies had been in agreement with britain and britain would defend them so we did not have a navy. >> yes. the united states navy goes back to 1775. it was debated. there were congressman, delegates to congress, that argued that it was a waste of time. there is a modern hiss dorian who -- a modern historian who is an expert on the french navy in the american revolution and said the same thing, the americans wasted a lot of money trying to build these ships because he did not do them any good. the people at heritage command wrote back and say, that is not true. they did prey on british commerce and create issues in european waters. they did bring about -- you could argue that some of the incidents in europe helped bring the french and spanish into the war. so they did play a role. but yes, you are right. the early american navy was a lot of merchant ships that had been transformed into naval ships. and then we started building frigates. some of those frigates were the ones that were captured. two of them were -- had been built up the delaware river. the british led a raid up the delaware and they got those ships. they should have been sunk -- that is what washington said -- i mean, sent underwater so they could not get at them. the virginia, a brand-new american frigate, was sailing out to the chesapeake bay, lost its way, broke its rudder, and the british captured it. we were building some quality ships. another one that they built, they handed over to the french because they could not afford to keep it in action because it was too expensive. yes, it was a real burden and there was a big debate. what should be the role of the continental navy? when i talk about moving away from the heartland, that hurts a lot because you are talking about chesapeake bay, charleston. they wanted protection of some sort of navy and they wanted to keep the british privateers or the loyalist privateers off their trade. they wanted to enact a continental navy, but they could not do it because the british would hunt them down and if he them. that is why they kind of scattered. >> on this side of the atlantic, from 1778, does he go back? >> he stays until the end of 1779. he goes to north america and then down into the west and backup to north america. 1779 is the famous assault on savannah. and then he went back to france. but they kept a fleet in american waters, especially after the british evacuated newport. that became the center of the french fleet in america. it was a battle of the capes. it was a small fleet at newport that came down and, at the same time, you had a bigger fleet come from the west indies and they connected to surprise the british, who did not expect that to happen. that is one of the reasons why cornwallis was trapped. they did not expect the french navy to combine as successfully as they had. after the peace treaty, it was only a matter of time before the french got a temporary naval advantage and defeated the british fleet. the british were lucky a lot of of the time. as i said here, it could have been a disaster. they are gotten over here a little bit faster, he could have destroyed the fleet and captured all of the army's baggage and ended the war. >> both england and france have forts in the caribbean. >> yes. if you know anything about mercantilism, the point of mercantilism is you produce products you cannot produce in your homeland. so the west indies, because of their ability to produce sugar and sugar cane, were valuable. valuable. that is why, in 1778, when the british made that readjustment in their strategy, they decided they were going to emphasize and put more resources into the west indies. matter of fact, he had gotten clinton had orders after he evacuated philadelphia to send his force of 6000 down to capture st. lucia in the west indies. so there were a number of battles down there. the big naval battle, the battle of the saints, the americans thought that would reopen the war. which was a british victory, by the way. rodney won that, and you can argue -- i do not think there is any argument -- that the british second empire was created during the american revolution. they were able to win in the west indian islands and their successes in the indian subcontinent. they had some luck over there as well. that is the basis for the great british empire where the sun never sets. >> i was wondering if you could talk a bit about your documentary editing project. i think it is remarkable that this single fat volume covers only a couple of months. a couple of key months. [laughter] i am interested in how many volumes are projected in the process of hunting and gathering material. >> this is what she is talking about. this is two months work of work -- worth of work. we have volume 13 teed up. we thought we would get four months into it. we had been getting three or four months usually into a volume. this one was particularly rich. june and july and part of august. that is the battle of rhode island. hopefully, it will be out in the very near future. in the future, the chances are you will not see this in book form. we are going to probably do them as digital editions. you will probably see them online primarily. the idea is maybe, down the line, we will put them into letterpress because we give away a lot of these volumes to research libraries. did you get one? >> i hope. >> yes, ok, so the reason why -- we don't just do the continental navy. we do documents that relate to all kinds of things. social history, as you can see when i was talking about the agency for the continental sale, we do a lot for british law. i quoted one law from the marlborough, but we have others where they capture vessels. we have official documents, unofficial documents, newspaper reports, people's letters, memoirs, all kinds of things. it is chock full of good stuff. if you are a member here, come over and pull it out sometime. it is a wonderful series. the expectation is that it is not something like david mcculloch would do. the expectation is that david mcculloch will use this someday to write books. if you follow the naval history and heritage command, they have done a series on the war of 1812. the number of books have been published about that. and a couple of books have just come out about the continental navy, one by george don and another by tim -- i am having a senior moment, excuse me. but anyway, both of those made extensive use of our volumes. they were able to shorten their research process significantly by using these volumes. so that is what we do. >> the sources for the documents, obviously, you have a lot of american sources. but what sources are you using from great britain, france, spain? >> in england, we got a lot of our documents from the national archives. the greenwich maritime museum has a bunch. plus, bryn mawr university contributes him because one of the admirals had history papers there. so a variety of places. the french, the same kind of thing. we get them from their national archives and also from the city archives, those kinds of places. spanish, we do not have as much. the spanish have done a pretty good job. they have published some of their documents. so we have been able to get some from them. a lot of this was on a long time ago and some of these documents have been microfilmed. we do not have the originals because it would be to pricey -- too pricey for us to acquire. we have a few. the french document, this station bill, that came from the french archives and we have a copy of it. >> you mentioned governor gonzales -- >> galvez? >> galvez. >> one of the great unsung heroes of the american revolution. we have an hispanic population here. we have one of the great heroes. why don't they make a big deal about it? >> my question may go in that general direction. if he had wrote to his superior saying we may be attacked by the british and he described the british fleet in north america and the caribbean and a french fleet also in the caribbean, i am assuming the governor of new orleans was writing to someone who had a spanish fleet somewhere. >> not yet. the spanish were spending their time escorting treasure ships back to spain. that is one of the reasons why they did not want to declare war at this time. they are still coming back from mexico and peru, that kind of thing. when the spanish coming to the war, they spend most of their time -- the spanish were most interested in capturing gibraltar and protecting their american empire. and the quality of the spanish ships is not very good. really, they are not that offensive. having said that, galvez does launch a very active campaign. he captures or recaptures everything that willing had captured and then he moves along the gulf coast, captures mobile, and the center of florida was pensacola and he captured it. the american commander in the south wrote to galvez and said, why don't we come together in saint augustine? by then, the war was over. galvez was very active. after the war, he was a young man appointed viceroy for mexico and he died. some people say he was poisoned. other people say it was something but -- something like yellow fever. they are not sure. but his after action report after pensacola, he wrote -- the i alone -- navy officers were afraid to sail into the bay because they thought they would get blasted by british artillery. he wrote, "i did it." they were shooting over the ship because they did not depress it long enough to hit them. i guess he was a bit of an egomaniac. they are actually building a replica of him in spain right now. someday, i think they are going to try to come over here and celebrate galvez by sailing around the united states, particularly the southern portion. >> put on hold due to lack of funds. however, lafayette's hermoine granger is currently doing sea trials off of lower shelf -- lla -- la rouchelle. they are short about $.5 million euros. they are looking for support. >> i was there when they started developing it. i am sorry to hear that they have stopped in the short-term. let's hope they are able to resurrect that project. >> you just mentioned cannon fire. how did captain tucker's frigate compare with english frigates and armament? >> americans were pretty good at cannon fire. in a situation where they were not overwhelmed, they could hold their own. in the world 1812, you know that there is a string of american victories because we could work the guns as fast or faster as the british navy. the british navy was known for rapidity of cannon fire. they would aim low and try to blast behold of the other ship. -- the hull of the other ship. the french did it differently. they would try to de-mast. they would aim for the rigging. think about what you are trying to hit. they had a different approach. so the british were able to get a lot more follies -- volleys in a shorter space of time then the french were. also, the french did not have as experienced and dedicated of seamen. they were somewhat new to the game, if you will. as to america versus britain, the americans could hold their own. a good american privateer could slug it out till to tell -- toe-to-toe with a british naval vessel. >> i ask that because the army forces were notoriously short of artillery in the early part of the war. there were no forges. very difficult for them to go toe to toe. when compared to the navy and state, whatever the term is for their navies, did they manufacture their cannons? how did that happen? >> john brown, who i talked about, had a foundry in rhode island. he manufactured the cannons, some of which were not as good as others. there was also manufacturing going on in some mid-atlantic states. virginia had a foundry as well. so that was part of it. another would be go to france. tucker, when he was in france, got a few guns. one of the things that the american commissioners in france -- they would commission for guns, cannon ordinance, small guns, and they would be shipped over to america. naval cannons as well. a lot of times, it was just artillery. sometimes you see letters where they will lend it to the army and the army will lend it back to them as this kind of ordinance or you see privateers will go to the state and say, we have a ship ready to go out. you see this in baltimore a whole lot. they will go to the state council and say, we have a privateer ready to go. this happened a couple of times. there are a couple of letters in here. they say, we have it ready to go, but we cannot find our armament. you have an old, decrepit ship that used to be in the navy. can we have the guns? they would say, sure, but you have to replace them six weeks out. i am sorry that it one last question and then we will call it. >> let me ask you about the state navies. the continental navy only commissioned and built less than a dozen frigates. they issued over 1000 letters of borrowing. what and where did the state navies contribute? >> they were designed to protect state waters, so they are smaller. during the war, they would try to protect themselves. the georgia state navy were gunboats. they would grow and sale at the same time. they were not good enough to go out into the ocean. south carolina had a state navy that they go into the ocean. as a matter of fact, the frigate randolph led a flotilla which included a number of state navy vessels from south carolina when it was destroyed in the battle with yarmouth. the state navy vessel got away. the state navies of virginia and maryland were designed to stay mostly in the chesapeake and protect it from raiders and privateers. and gunboats -- >> no ship of the line. >> no ship of the line. we were building one ship of the line at the time, and when we finished it, we gave it to france. it was only going to be a 50-gunner, not a big one. we bought frigates. as a matter of fact, there were those advocating, let's not even go for frigates, that's -- let's go for frigs, sloops, fast things that can go in shallow water. the reason they could operate is because it was very shallow and the british could not go in with their navies ships. if you know anything about little egg harbor, it is south toward philadelphia, so you could go to new york and slip back in and the british could not get at you. that is the kind of thing. the georgia state navy, that is the kind of thing they did. there were some -- you get to know when when, some of their ships actually were not sailing. they captured a couple down off of charleston. they went down to the west indies, looking for prizes. they would get supplies. they would love for, and they would take -- look for, and they would take -- action, even trade for on occasion. the united states navy had some blue water ships that could go out and that was more aggressive. they played a variety of roles. there are interesting studies done on the state navy. as a matter of fact, there is one about the georgia state navy is going to be published soon. watch for it. it is a good one. i can guarantee you. ok, i am sorry. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> thank you, dr. conrad. our next public program is an myerss talk with discussing his novel "revolutionary" on deborah samson. he will discuss the process of writing historical fiction and we hope to see you there. these enjoy some light refreshments in the winter garden. thank you all for coming. 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Transcripts For CSPAN3 Naval Warfare In The American Revolution 20141019

institute promotes the knowledge and appreciation of the achievement of american independence, for filling the aim of the continental army officers who founded the society in 1783. supportstution advanced scholarships, conduct public programs, and makes resources available to teachers and students to enrich the understanding of the war of independence and to the principles of the men and women who secured the liberty of the american people. if you are not out our public program mailing list and would like to be, you can fill out the form you found on your chair. we also have our fall public program out front if you don't have a copy and would like one. pleased tom introduce dr. dennis conrad, who will speak about the changes to naval warfare during the spring of 1778. conrad as a historian at the naval history and heritage command. as a editor of the naval documents of the american revolution series, and is one of a raters of of "se rai the american revolution." he is currently the lead electronicor document to him as the spanish-american war. dr. conrad received his doctorate from the university. [applause] >> my purpose here tonight is to highlight the publication of volume 12 of naval documents of the american revolution. it is a little difficult, hawking a book that even your publisher is less than enthusiastic about. "this book isrb, a key scholarly resource for a narrow group, naval and military historians and researchers of early american history and the revolutionary war, who require primary source materials. existially interested may with some military and revolutionary war enthusiast, students studying this war may be interested in the naval perspective through this comprehensive source." the unitednt of states is very enthusiastic about volume 12 so it balances out. government printing office, i think volume 12 is an important book that should enjoy a wide audience. i am hoping we will put it up online at the naval history and heritage command website in the not too distant future. you won't have to pay the $99 in costs to buy the letterpress edition. although a. covered by volume 12, april and is and 1778 -- of 1778, small number of time, a number of changes occurred, changes that would significantly affect fought and was contribute greatly to its outcome. the most important of these developments was the internationalization of the war. with the dispatch of a french aprilunder the -- on 13 bound for american waters. treaty was of a obviously a major event. it was not, however, i guarantee that the french would commit to naval resources to support american independence or to operate in american waters. in fact, the first request made by the american commissioners in france, asking that the french navy convoy attacked american denied.s was wase the french leadership unwilling to commit resources to protect american commerce, they were willing to commit their navy to assist the americans. in able to move that was credited to the triumvirate of nd thee, his assistant, adn th chevalier, the french decided to dispatch the squadron to american waters. since the british had few ships in the mediterranean, they were free to go on the offensive. at the same time, the presence of a larger french squadron, the threat of a cross channel invasion, and concerns supported by intelligence that was incorrect but on good authority, that the spanish were preparing to enter the war as allies of the french, disquieted the british and forced them to keep theificance naval forces in english channel and to delay sending a reinforcement under admiral john byron to north america. orders tot received sail with reinforcements to america on 3 may, but avoidable delays and a decision by the lords of the admiralty, postponed to the departure of this relieving fleet until the british fleet commander got "good intelligence of the fleet "is satisfied it is down to america or the west indies." it did not sail until seven june. -- 7 june. the indecision grew when "foul weather" jack, his fleet, encountered horrific weather that to battered and scattered to arriveing them well before british reinforcements. the riskiness of the decision to send it to american waters should not be minimized. had the british attached -- dispatched quickly, they might have been trapped and lost. thath planners understood the possible benefits outweigh the possible dangers and acted decisively. had to the execution of the strategy than as bold as the planning, the french navy could well have ended the war in the spring of 1778. wtz's fleetl ho wasbadly scattered and inferior. moreover the british army abandoned philadelphia on 18 june to move to new york city. while that army marched overland, it shipped the bulk of its stores on merchant men which moved slowly and in a disorganized fashion down the delaware river to delaware bay and then north to new york. haddad arrived earlier, he could have captured this enormous ande, crippled the fleet, could have blockaded the city. large british garrison there depended almost entirely on supplies shipped in from elsewhere. without that resupply it probably could have forced a surrender. however, this did not happen, because the fleet was slow getting to american waters. although it sailed on 13 april, it took more than a month for the spanish fleet to pass the straits of gibraltar. documents published in volume 12 demonstrate that our adverse weather, poor sailing, faulty equipment, the need to go as fast as the slowest chip, and the use of the voyage as a thening exercise, caused squadron to proceed across the atlantic that can only be described as leisurely. one of the most informative documents in the volume is the station bill for the flagship. here it is in the original and our french ending this translation -- and english translation. clearly how they used the voyage to america to train officers. the station bill not only gives the station of every officer during combat that also detailed the instructions regarding their duties, such as -- on the poop deck, [indiscernible] near as possible, will command to the maneuvers and musketry and watch over the rapidity of fire. another place in the station where they say, "every commander of a gun division will have over the men attached to each gun. he will do his best to become personally acquainted with all his men and notes those who show the most seal and intelligence and those who distinction themselves in combat." while the french fleet may have been better prepared as a result of this training, its slow progress across the atlantic mean that it -- meant that it did not arrive at the delaware capes until 8 july. by that time the chance to defeat the fleet before could collect and retreated to a strong defensive position in new york or to capture the british army had passed. theite this opportunity, nature of the naval war had changed dramatically. internationalization of the war meant that no longer could the british assumed they had unchallenged control of american waters or even the english channel. another effect can be gleaned from how will's reports to the admiral. "service in american waters was hard and british ships and crews suffered accordingly." british commanders in north america were thus put "between a rock and a hard place," as there was no facility to -- the british had plans to establish one. to rotate ships to england for refit and repair left of the american fleet week but to keep those vessels on station, as howe and his successors were often forced to do, reduced their effectiveness. one of the congenital factors in the french naval victory at the battle of the virginia capes in 1781 was the poor condition of the british fleet. of 1778 also saw a dramatic change in british naval strategy. the british deemphasized the war in heartland america. d, they abandoned philadelphia and consolidated forces in new york and rhode island. they eventually abandoned the latter, as well. under the new strategy, mobile detachments sent by water from americanto destroy forces in detail, to rate american seaports to keep down american privateering activity, and to support a british attempt to hold up a self-supporting loyalist base. thus the focus of british efforts would be the west indies and the periphery of the united states. the letter to lord howe, lords of the admiralty spelled out the new strategy. west -- ite east and was a viable strategy. of invasion caused british leadership to limit reinforcements to its army and navy in america. because of this the british were overextended and outnumbered in the united states and west indies. new york was a difficult position to hold, which limited the troops available for detaching, and as a result of written forfeited naval initiative in the western hemisphere and became increasingly reactionary. the concentration of royal forces in american waters did open up opportunities for british and loyalist privateers, a trend that would continue until war's and. -- end. howe feared such privateering would result in desertion from royal navy ships and would provide a smaller pool from which to draw sailors, he eventually had to give way. the royal governor began issuing letters of mark .nd reprisal in august, 1778 this excessive privateers operating out of bermuda, sent augustine, and especially new york became more and more evident, and they garnered greater official support and had a greater impact on american shipping. the continental navy saw changes during this. , too -- this period, too. in the. of march to may, 1778, the continental navy had six ships captured and destroyed -- the alfred, the randolph, the columbus, the virginia, the washington, and the effingham. william mallory wrote to a friend, "our little fleet is much thinned." "only one has been captured on the ocean." into losses called question the competence and character of the continental navy's leadership, particularly its ship commanders, and also forced a changed in the role the continental navy played. unable to contest british dominance in the bays and sees a surrounding the major cities of the united states, americans seamen were pushed to the peripheries were they enjoyed some success. in north america, there were two areas, nova scotia and east american vessels dominated in the spring of 1778, and a third, the mississippi river, where they could realistically hope to contest a british dominance. in nova scotia, privateers from new england so invested, the term used by contemporary, the residents of liverpool voted to dismantle the town's fort and to inform american privateers men land"if they attempted to under arms we should oppose them, but if they did not, they are offered to take a vessel out of the river and we shall not molest them." manned in, gunboats, large part by continental soldiers, scored a dramatic victory over the royal navy. to check an invasion of east florida by the southern continental army, captain thomas jordan led a force of three vessels to save simon's inlet in georgia, destroying three galleys. instead, the british squadron was soundly defeated in two of the vessels and it were captured. germanic victory and gave the americans control of the inner coaster waters all the way from charleston to saint augustine, thus threatening the very existence of british east florida. hey were ablee -- t to coddle together a naval defensive force, thus mitigating and unrelated issues halted the american advance toward saint augustine. it was nonetheless an important victory and established at least for a very short time american dominance in those water, and could have changed the course of the war and the american deep south. then i wouldn't have had a career because there would have no nathanael greene. another success was on the periphery and early 1778, occurring along the mississippi river. the expeditions to conquer west florida go back to the summer of 1777, when the received a louisiana letter from colonel george morgan. it proposed a 1000 man american expedition against pensacola. lvez would provide intelligence and transport and artillery powder and provision. butresponse was equivocal probably more convincing was the fact that the flotilla returned laden with arms and ammunition and provisions. debate, american leaders decided to dispatch a much scaled-down expedition. ands welling, a captain, boat,an went in a arriving unmolested into the heart of english territory, his party captured and ravaged a number of british settlements. they also captured several vessels, one of which was later turned into an american warship. convinced theey inhabitants to sign of oath of neutrality. successfully captured west florida, however the americans began plundering those not considered friends, a pool ofing disaffected who were instrumental in helping the british to reestablish authority. one result of the willing expedition was that it almost sparked a war between england and spain. s party was too small to be viable without the help of galvez, who helped extend american raters "the the sacred right of neutrality." the english saw him as aiding and assisting and abetting his majesty's rebellion, looking upon them as separate and distinct powers. also disposed of plunder accumulated by the raiders. to lord's george germane, peter chester, argued "the only effectual method to truly address our injuries after all other methods have been tried would be to make reprisals and detain spanish property until ample restitution was made." therefore it was not a paranoid rant but an appreciation of the situation that led a beleaguered yet to determine galvez to write his superior on 14 april, "it seems the english are plotting an attack on the city," new o rleans. although the reception given to set americans is the same as in ports of europe and the islands of america, against which the england's take -- the english take no revenge, they see the town as defenseless. i already have two frigates in front of the city and according to this, an additional two or three are expected. one is at the mouth of the river. they cannot have any other object but this town and no business to attend to in nat ches. theve been informed that commander of these frigates is a brutal man, willing to commit any kind of transgression without regard for consequences. it appears he intends to demand i turn over the americans, especially the commander in his party, and opened fire and destroy the city if i do not cecede. his lordship knows i cannot accept such a demand, and that i should be determined to defend said americans and their prizes and use all forces at my disposal although they are few for this purpose. it was a testament to the strength of galvez and to his friendship toward the united states that he was not cowed into submission by british divination. as oliver pollock reported to cannots and a letter, "i include this important subject without giving the greatest applause to governor galvez for his noble spirit and behavior on this occasion. though he had no batteries erected or men to defend the place against the two ships of with a hundred men all coming against him, and he laughed at their haughtiness and despised their attempts and in short they returned." what's then ensued was an elaborate game of chicken which went on for several months and was not resolved until chester received a letter from lord george germane on 5 august, forbidding him from taking the "seizing spanish property." material willing had exhausted the patience of both galvez and pollock so that both were dedicated to getting him out as quickly as possible. galvez went so far as to allow pollock to put out an honored vessel -- and armored vessel. even so, it was november before welling departed against a privately owned sloop. the sloop was captured at sea dwelling was taken prisoner. languished in british custody for almost two years before his captors permitted his exchange in late 1781. while the welling expedition boosted galvez's reputation, it was a failure for the americans. didrary to expectations, it not permanently open the mississippi river to american commerce. in fact, the river was less available for american youth after the raid. it also hardened sentiment in british west florida in joining the american cause. clark's assessment of the exhibition is spot on -- "plunde r is the prevailing passion and the country can expect little service." therefore, and west florida as theeorgia and nova scotia, americans were unable to transform temporary advantage into long-term success. in afghanistan and i had a thousand 50 eight, the british had reinforced with the nova scotia's and had undertaken an offensive against georgia. however, the idea that the continental navy cannot stand to protect the heartland prevailed. americans who attacked the british english scientist is not expected where is. -- or where britain was weak. 1778.opean waters in an example of the latter was an activity of the rhode island privateer marlborough on the coast of africa. let's consider european waters. while a number of continental vessels were dispatched to european waters, including two continental frigates, the activities of which are covered extensively in volume 12, there were two continental navy captains who did the most. jones.ham and 1778,n may, 1777 and may, cunningham and the continental navy captured 24 british vessels, including six in the 1778 and the spring of they are detailed in volume 12. thanks to the onslaught of british commerce by cunningham and others in european waters, british maritime insurance increased to 28% of the value of the cargo, higher than they had been at any time during the seven years war. it is little wonder that the pirate cunningham became a hated man in england. probably more famous, captain who brought the fight to the british was john paul jones. while the battle between his ismand and the british ship the one americans know best, jones's 28 day voyage into the 1778 probablyg of had more impact on british public opinion and the conduct of the war. they captured and destroyed british merchant men and a british navy ship, and most notably executed a land rate against the northern british coastal town of , whichven and an estate is right on the border between england and scotland. at the former, jones tried unsuccessfully to burn some 200 merchant besser's -- merchant vessels lying aground. he attempted to capture the earl of silk or who jones believed could be exchanged for a great number of american seamen. while the attempted arson was thwarted and the earl was away from home and really wasn't important enough to command the kind of exchange jones envisioned, the fact that jones and his crew landed on british soil twice and escaped demonstrated the vulnerability of english coastal towns, 4s jones put it in his report, "what was done is sufficient to show that not all their bolster navy can protect their own coast and that the seams of distress which they have occasion in america may soon be brought home to their own." it provoked a firestorm of criticism of the admiralty. "it is something strange and worthy of particular note is that at a time when the ministry are boasting of an invincible fleet which they have fitted out which is now writing it to spit little american privateer should not only ravage the coast of the kingdom but fight and take his majesty's sloops of war. ofis the particular plague the present times to rely upon appearances and neglect realities, to put the nation to a vast expanse and do little or nothing for it." that was a london newspaper. such fears concerning the vulnerability of england strengthened the hand of those who argued that greater resources should be committed to whichfense of the island, was the goal of american planners when they committed the continental may be to this risky strategy. finally, the rate strengthened the perception in europe that the younger public might actually survive as a nation. according to a neutral italian observer and the french court, the raid "caused a sensation in europe and especially france because it again confirmed to the opinion held that american'' forces are vigorous." thus i think it can be safely argued that the actions of cunningham, and especially jones, when paired with the entry of the french into the war was a game changer. the coast of west africa was another area where they enjoyed success in early 1878. the cruise documented inviting 12 -- demonstrated how american privateers fared in those waters. testimony in 1878 included effect11, analyzing the of the war on african trade did before the war, 200 ships engaged in the trade. by 1778, that number had been and 15 of those were taken by american privateers. most american privateers cruised for slave ships near barbados, which meant complete cargoes of slaves and because of its proximity to the coast, which lessened the danger of capture, if you operated directly on the african coast, which should come as knows prize that a rhode island privateer would operate in those waters, since rhode islanders actively engaged in the african slave trade before and were familiar with those waters. captain babcock sailed on slaving voyages. certainly, john brown of providence had been involved in all his life.e marlborough was a 250-ton ship navigated by a crew of 125. it sailed from new bedford before the new year. volume 12 picks up its story off the cape verdean islands. the crew sailed east and then southward along the guinea coast towards the english trading settlement. te, route -- en rou marlborough captured five vessels, persuaded a british master to act as a pilot for them, negotiated a mutually-beneficial deal with a local tribal leader, and then burned his settlement when the british factors refused to surrender the property they held. the climax of the cruise came off cape messer auto -- "there came a canoe from shore with a black king named robin gray. do, when weom mesora hear of a slave ship ready to sail for the west indies. oursales set running with fleet after us. at 2:00 p.m., we made the anchor, all hands getting ready to engage as needed. at 5:00 p.m., we came up with the ship and anchor. the captain ordered them to strike their colors, which they immediately did. at the same time, running under their stern. be captainroved to william allinson mounting 16 guns with a cargo of 300 slaves , awell as ivory and rice very lucrative prize." after missing a second slaver that he had intelligence of, babcock decided to return to north america. obviously, not before having dealt a heavy blow to the english-african slave trade. finally, and while this is not 1770e for the spring of eight, volume 12 demonstrates that attitudes among sailors in the continental navy were and theymore volatile were exercising more agency in their own situation. by law, a naval captains authority was awesome and the tools he could wield to enforce his will aboard ship were formidable. 12 documentation in volume illustrates the other side of the coin, that sailors were not powerless and they could influence matters far more than one would think even the imbalance of power, at least on paper, between captains and the enlisted. recruiting skilled sailors was such a struggle that officers had to accept cemented -- seamen of dubious loyalty and chose to accommodate the wishes of their group in order to keep them content and dissuade them from desertion and mutiny. gave into thes demands of his men and allowed actions that neither officer believed was legitimate. when jones discovered that the earl was not home, he wanted to leave the estate unmolested but capitulated to his men's assistance that they repay the british for the destructive raids they were conducting on american port towns by allowing his crew to loot the estate. in the end, he got his men to agree to take the family silver. this cost jones personally since it necessary for his honor to purchase the silver from his men and return it. similarly, cunningham allowed his men to seize british goods bound in a neutral vessel even though the continental congress by determined the practice france that free ships make free goods. the capture cause major problems for cunningham and angered america's allies. they also put their enterprises at risk by signing on seamen whose loyalty was neither to them or the united states. in going 12, when he came into conflict with his principal lieutenant, thomas simpson, john paul jones found that most of his crew, recruited from simpson's hometown, cited with simpson. in another instance, a member of the party sent to burn the shipping in whitehaven decided that this was his chance to return home early and he deserted and alerted the townspeople, limiting the damage done by the raiders. in another instance recounted in tucker12, captain samuel of the continental frigate boston, narrowly escaped death by the timely discovery and plot aboard his vessel. as boston was completing its refit in france, two or three englishmen in that city hatched a plot to seize the frigate and sale it to england. plan was for them to sign on as seamen and join disaffected crewmen and if you'd deserter's -- and a few deserters. they would seize the ship to ensure the success of the mutiny and neutralize the ships marines. this they sought to do by embezzling a marine sergeant. he played a long and then informed tucker. the plan was diabolical and included adding opium to the officers, the latter of which drinking water water of the were to be murdered. he denounced the schemers and the ringleaders escaped. laterally, he himself successfully petitioned french authorities for relief, claiming ill-treatment. this very brief summary of events from the spring of 1778 demonstrates that it truly was a time of seachange in which the naval war of the american revolution was conducted. thank you. [applause] questions. uh-oh. comment struck by your from the writings of john paul jones that the british navy was a boasting navy. struck by the fact that the british navy had a very small presence in the mediterranean, so small that it could not protect the things it wanted to. further struck the fact that, in the americas, they could not repair any ships. they had to be rotated back. some repairs.do they could go up to halifax or down to bermuda. they had some facilities down there. the plan was to possibly make .ew york into a refit center that was never finalized and one of the reasons why the british in 1871 --orth town i do not know if you are a sailor, but to get by the sandy hook, the bar, is very difficult. that is white they did not attack the british in new york harbor. he sat out almost three weeks because he was trying to get over the bar, but his ships were too big and he was afraid he would have to take all of the cannons out, which would make them vulnerable, obviously. the reason they went down to the virginia capes or why cornwallis was sent there was to create a more modern port that the british would use and the idea was that they would set up some sort of facility there to refit or ships. but you are right. it was difficult because they were constantly cruising, patrolling, looking for american commerce, which was a lucrative for the captains also. of prizes.e day if you captured a full american vessel, and you are a captain, you got most of the take and the crew got a piece of it as well. minor, but indo order to really refit a ship and repair it, you had to go back to england, to the shipyards there. like i said, that was the case. a couple of the ships on the line were practically sinking. they were staying afloat because they were constantly using their but that didumps not make a difference because they could not keep up and it slowed the process exponentially. yes, ma'am? >> at the beginning of the revolution, the colonies had been in agreement with britain and britain would defend them so we did not have a navy. >> yes. the united states navy goes back to 1775. it was debated. there were congressman, delegates to congress, that argued that it was a waste of time. dorians a modern hiss who -- a modern historian who is an expert on the french navy in the american revolution and said the same thing, the americans wasted a lot of money trying to build these ships because he did not do them any good. the people at heritage command wrote back and say, that is not true. british prey on commerce and create issues in european waters. -- youd bring about could argue that some of the incidents in europe helped bring the french and spanish into the war. so they did play a role. but yes, you are right. the early american navy was a lot of merchant ships that had into navalormed ships. and then we started building forgets -- frigates. some of those frigates were the ones that were captured. two of them were -- had been built up the delaware river. the british led a raid up the delaware and they got those ships. they should have been sunk -- that is what washington said -- i mean, sent underwater so they could not get at them. the virginia, a brand-new american frigate, was sailing out to the chesapeake bay, lost its way, broke its rudder, and the british captured it. we were building some quality ships. another one that they built, they handed over to the french because they could not afford to keep it in action because it was too expensive. burden and a real there was a big debate. what should be the role of the continental navy? when i talk about moving away from the heartland, that hurts a lot because you are talking about chesapeake bay, charleston. they wanted protection of some sort of navy and they wanted to keep the british privateers or the loyalist privateers off their trade. they wanted to enact a continental navy, but they could not do it because the british would hunt them down and if he them. that is why they kind of scattered. >> on this side of the atlantic, from 1778, does he go back? >> he stays until the end of 1779. he goes to north america and then down into the west and backup to north america. 1779 is the famous assault on savannah. and then he went back to france. but they kept a fleet in american waters, especially after the british evacuated newport. that became the center of the french fleet in america. it was a battle of the capes. it was a small fleet at newport that came down and, at the same time, you had a bigger fleet come from the west indies and they connected to surprise the british, who did not expect that to happen. that is one of the reasons why cornwallis was trapped. they did not expect the french navy to combine as successfully as they had. after the peace treaty, it was only a matter of time before the french got a temporary naval advantage and defeated the british fleet. of british were lucky a lot of the time. as i said here, it could have been a disaster. they are gotten over here a little bit faster, he could have destroyed the fleet and captured all of the army's baggage and ended the war. >> both england and france have forced in the caribbean. >> yes. if you know anything about mercantilism, the point of mercantilism is you produce products you cannot produce in your homeland. so the west indies, because of their ability to produce sugar and sugar cane, were valuable. that is why, in 1778, when the british made that readjustment in their strategy, they decided they were going to emphasize and put more resources into the west indies. fact, he had gotten orders after he evacuated philadelphia to send his force of 6000 down to capture st. lucia in the west indies. so there were a number of battles down there. the big naval battle, the battle of the saints, the americans thought that would reopen the war. which was a british victory, by the way. and you can argue -- i do not think there is any argument -- that the british second empire was created during the american revolution. win in theble to west indian islands and their successes in the indian subcontinent. they had some luck over there as well. that is the basis for the great reddish empire where the sun never sets. -- the great reddish empire -- british empire where the sun never sets. >> i was wondering if you could talk a bit about your documentary project. i think it is remarkable that this single fat volume covers only a couple of months. a couple of key months. i am interested in how many volumes are projected in the process of hunting and gathering material. >> this is what she is talking about. this is two months work of work -- worth of work. we have volume 13 teed up. we thought we would get four months into it. we had been getting three or four months usually into a volume. this one was particularly rich. june and july and part of august. that is the battle of rhode island. hopefully, it will be out in the very near future. in the future, the chances are you will not see this in book form. we are going to probably do them as digital editions. you will probably see them online primarily. the idea is maybe, down the line, we will put them into letterpress because we give away a lot of these volumes to research libraries. did you get one? i hope. yes, ok, so the reason why -- we don't just do the continental navy. we do documents that relate to all kinds of things. you can seery, as when i was talking about the agency for the continental sale, we do a lot for british law. i quoted one law from the marlborough, but we have others where they capture vessels. we have official documents, unofficial documents, newspaper reports, people's letters, memoirs, all kinds of things. it is chock full of good stuff. if you are a member here, come over and pull it out sometime. it is a wonderful series. the expectation is that it is not something like david mcculloch would do. the expectation is that david mcculloch will use this someday to write books. you follow the naval history and heritage command, they have done a series on the war of 1812. the number of books have been published about that. and a couple of books have just come out about the continental navy, one by george don and -- i am having a senior moment, excuse me. but anyway, both of those made extensive use of our volumes. they were able to shorten their research process significantly by using these volumes. so that is what we do. >> the sources for the documents , obviously, you have a lot of american sources. but what sources are you using from great britain, france, spain? >> in england, we got a lot of our documents from the national archives. the greenwich maritime museum has a bunch. universitymawr contributes him because one of the admirals had history papers there. so a variety of places. the french, the same kind of thing. we get them from their national archives and also from the city archives, those kinds of places. spanish, we do not have as much. the spanish have done a pretty good job. they have published some of their documents. get somee been able to from them. a lot of this was on a long time ago and some of these documents have been microfilmed. we do not have the originals because it would be to pricey -- too pricey for us to acquire. we have a few. the french document, this station bill, that came from the french archives and we have a copy of it. >> you mentioned governor gonzales -- >> galvez? >> galvez. >> one of the great unsung heroes of the american revolution. we have an hispanic population here. we have one of the great heroes. why don't they make a big deal about it? my question may go in that general direction. if he had wrote to his superior saying we may be attacked by the british and he described the british fleet in north america french caribbean and a fleet also in the caribbean, i am assuming the governor of new wasn's -- of new orleans writing to someone who had a spanish fleet somewhere. >> not yet. the spanish were spending their time escorting treasure ships back to spain. that is one of the reasons why they did not want to declare war at this time. they are still coming back from mexico and peru, that kind of thing. when the spanish coming to the war, they spend most of their time -- the spanish were most interested in capturing gibraltar and protecting their american empire. and the quality of the spanish ships is not very good. really, they are not that offensive. doesg said that, galvez launch a very active campaign. he captures or recaptures hadything that willing captured and then he moves along the gulf coast, captures mobile, and the center of florida was pensacola and he captured it. commander in the south wrote to galvez and said, why don't we come together in saint augustine? by then, the war was over. galvez was very active. after the war, he was a young man appointed viceroy for mexico and he died. some people say he was poisoned. other people say it was something but -- something like yellow fever. they are not sure. report after action after pensacola, he wrote -- the navy officers were afraid to sail into the bay because they thought they would get blasted by british artillery. it."ote, "i did they were shooting over the ship because they did not depress it long enough to hit them. i guess he was a bit of an egomaniac. they are actually building a replica of him in spain right now. think they are going to try to come over here and celebrate galvez by sailing around the united states, particularly the southern portion. ofput on hold due to lack funds. granger is hermoine currently doing sea trials off lalower shelf -- lla -- rouchelle. they are short about .5 million euros. they are looking for support. >> i was there when they started .eveloping it i am sorry to hear that they have stopped in the short-term. let's hope they are able to resurrect that project. >> you just mentioned cannon fire. frigatecaptain tucker's compare with english frigates and armament? >> americans were pretty good at cannon fire. in a situation where they were not overwhelmed, they could hold their own. in the world 1812, you know that there is a string of american victories because we could work fast or faster as the british navy. the british navy was known for fire.ty of cannon they would aim low and try to blast behold of the other ship. of the other ship. the french did it differently. they would try to de-mast. they would aim for the rigging. think about what you are trying to hit. they had a different approach. so the british were able to get -- volleysfollies in a shorter space of time then the french were. also, the french did not have as experienced and dedicated of seamen. they were somewhat new to the game, if you will. britain,rica versus the americans could hold their own. a good american privateer could slug it out till to tell -- toe -to-toe with a british naval vessel. >> i ask that because the army forces were notoriously short of artillery in the early part of the war. there were no forges. very difficult for them to go toe to toe. when compared to the navy and state, whatever the term is for their navies, did they manufacture their cannons? how did that happen? >> john brown, who i talked in rhoded a foundry island. he manufactured the cannons, some of which were not as good as others. there was also manufacturing going on in some mid-atlantic states. virginia had a foundry as well. so that was part of it. another would be go to france. tucker, when he was in france, got a few guns. one of the things that the american commissioners in france -- they would commission for ordinance, small guns, and they would be shipped over to america. naval cannons as well. a lot of times, it was just artillery. sometimes you see letters where they will lend it to the army and the army will lend it back to them as this kind of ordinance or you see privateers will go to the state and say, we have a ship ready to go out. you see this in baltimore a whole lot. they will go to the state council and say, we have a privateer ready to go. this happened a couple of times. there are a couple of letters in here. they say, we have it ready to go, but we cannot find our armament. you have an old, decrepit ship that used to be in the navy. can we have the guns? they would say, sure, but you have to replace them six weeks out. i am sorry that it one last question and then we will call it. >> let me ask you about the state navies. the continental navy only commissioned and built less than a dozen frigates. they issued over 1000 letters of borrowing. what and where did the state navies contribute? >> they were designed to protect state waters, so they are smaller. during the war, they would try to protect themselves. the georgia state navy were gunboats. they would grow and sale at the same time. they were not good enough to go out into the ocean. south carolina had a state navy that they go into the ocean. as a matter of fact, the frigate whichph led a flotilla included a number of state navy vessels from south carolina when it was destroyed in the battle with yarmouth. the state navy vessel got away. the state navies of virginia and maryland were designed to stay mostly in the chesapeake and protect it from raiders and privateers. -- gunboats of the line. >> we were building one ship of the line at the time, and when we finished it, we gave it to france. it was only going to be a 50-gunner, not a big one. we bought frigates. as a matter of fact, there were those advocating, let's not even go for frigates, that's -- let's go for frigs, sloops, fast things that can go in shallow water. the reason they could operate is because it was very shallow and the british could not go in with their navies ships. if you know anything about little egg harbor, it is south toward philadelphia, so you could go to new you could slip in and the british couldn't get at you. that is the kind of thing. the georgia state navy that is the kind of thing it did. it was the intercoastal navy. there were some -- you get up to new england and their ships actually went sailing. they captured a couple privateers down off charleston on their way back. they went down to the west indies and actually sailed around looking for prizes. they would also take -- you know, get supplies, look for -- they would take -- actually they would even trade down there on occasion. so the massachusetts state navy, the connecticut state navy, they had some blue water ships that could go out into the ocean and did, so those were a little more aggressive. that's what you have. so they did play a variety of roles. there are some interesting studies done. as a matter of fact, there is one about georgia state navy, which is going to be published soon. watch for it. it's a good one. i can guarantee you. okay. i'm sorry. applause] >> thank you. our next public program is an author's talk with alex myers discussing his novel "revolutionary" on deborah samson. he will be discussing the process of writing historical fiction on thursday, october 16th. we hope to see you there. please enjoy some light refreshments in the winter garden. i'm sure dr. conrad would be happy to answer-thank you all for coming. applause] >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and the senate on c-span 2, here on c-span 3, we complement that by showing you the most relevant congressional hearings and public affairs events. on weekends c-span 3 is the home to american history tv with programs that tell our nation's story including six unique series. the civil war's 150th anniversary, visiting battlefields and key events. american artifacts, touring museums and historic sites to discover what artifacts reveal about america's past. history book shelf with the best known american history writers. the presidency, looking at policies and legacies of our nation's commanders in chief. lectures in history with top college professors delving into america's past. and our new series reel america featuring archival government and educational films from the 1930's through the 1970's. c-span 3, created by the cable tv industry and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us on hd. like us on facebook. follow us on twitter. each week, american history tv's "reel america" brings you the val films to help tell story of the 20th century. >> the official russian announcement that he resigned. reds n diplomats -- the say ill health prompted khrushchev to step down. observers say his purported feud with red china that broke apart the front of communism was the real reason. a man who clawed and fought his way to the top, wood leaders, khrushchev probably made his greatest impact on a strangely fascinated world when he came to the united nations assembly in 1960 and attempted to purge secretary general. he piled shock upon shock when he and the soviet delegation rudely interrupted speeches by western delegates. the crowds that once cheered khrushchev wildly were left in the dark as to just what went on when the central committee met to act on his retirement and to name leonid brezhnev as the new leader of the party. brezhnev has lately been considered khrushchev's heir apparent but the question remains as to whether he had anything to do with hurrying his boss's departure. brezhnev is known among western diplomats as the red in the gray flannel suit, a man who is expected to continue peaceful coexistence with the west while trying to heal the breach with china. it had been indicated brezhnev would be khrushchev's successor on his death, but no specter of death or disgrace marked the scene of khristine eroshevich's birthday party last spring. he seemed to have the world the communists fear at his feet and his power over 220 million soviet citizens seemed impregnable. now for better or worse the khrushchev era has come to a close. >> c-span's 2015 student cam competition is under way. this nationwide competition for middle and high school students will award 150 prizes totaling $100,000. create a five-to- seven-minute documentary on the topic "the three branches and you. videos need to include c-span programming, show varying points of view, and must be submitted by january 20, 2015. go to student cam.org for more information. grab a camera and get started today. >> american history tv traveled to the library of

Transcripts For CSPAN3 Naval Warfare In The American Revolution 20141020

for the american revolution institute and i am pleased to welcome you to anderson house. the american revolution institute promotes the knowledge and appreciation of the achievement of american independence, for filling the aim of the continental army officers who founded the society in 1783. the institution supports advanced scholarships, conduct public programs, and makes resources available to teachers and students to enrich the understanding of the war of independence and to the principles of the men and women who secured the liberty of the american people. if you are not out our public program mailing list and would like to be, you can fill out the form you found on your chair. we also have our fall public program out front if you don't have a copy and would like one. tonight i am pleased to introduce dr. dennis conrad, who will speak about the changes to naval warfare during the spring of 1778. dr. conrad as a historian at the naval history and heritage command. as a editor of the naval documents of the american revolution series, and is one of the authors of "sea raiders of the american revolution." he is currently the lead historian for electronic document to him as the spanish-american war. dr. conrad received his doctorate from the university. [applause] >> my purpose here tonight is to highlight the publication of volume 12 of naval documents of the american revolution. it is a little difficult, hawking a book that even your publisher is less than enthusiastic about. to quote a blurb, "this book is a key scholarly resource for a narrow group, naval and military historians and researchers of early american history and the revolutionary war, who require primary source materials. potentially interested may exist with some military and revolutionary war enthusiast, students studying this war may be interested in the naval perspective through this comprehensive source." but the president of the united states is very enthusiastic about volume 12 so it balances out. unlike the government printing office, i think volume 12 is an important book that should enjoy a wide audience. i am hoping we will put it up online at the naval history and heritage command website in the not too distant future. you won't have to pay the $99 in costs to buy the letterpress edition. although a period covered by volume 12, april and may of 1778, is a small number of time, a number of changes occurred, changes that would significantly affect how the war was fought and contribute greatly to its outcome. the most important of these developments was the internationalization of the war. with the dispatch of a french fleet on 13 april bound for american waters. the signing of a treaty was obviously a major event. it was not, however, i guarantee that the french would commit to naval resources to support american independence or to operate in american waters. in fact, the first request made by the american commissioners in france, asking that the french navy convoy attacked american merchants was denied. while the french leadership was unwilling to commit resources to protect american commerce, they were willing to commit their navy to assist the americans. in able to move that was credited to the triumvirate of sartine, his assistant, and the chevalier, the french decided to dispatch the squadron to american waters. since the british had few ships in the mediterranean, they were free to go on the offensive. at the same time, the presence of a larger french squadron, the threat of a cross channel invasion, and concerns supported by intelligence that was incorrect but on good authority, that the spanish were preparing to enter the war as allies of the french, disquieted the british and forced them to keep significance naval forces in the english channel and to delay sending a reinforcement under admiral john byron to north america. byron first received orders to sail with reinforcements to america on 3 may, but avoidable delays and a decision by the lords of the admiralty, postponed to the departure of this relieving fleet until the british fleet commander got "good intelligence of the fleet" and "is satisfied it is down to america or the west indies." it did not sail until 7 june. the indecision grew when "foul weather jack," his fleet, encountered horrific weather that to battered and scattered it, according them to arrive well before british reinforcements. the riskiness of the decision to send it to american waters should not be minimized. had the british dispatched quickly, they might have been trapped and lost. french planners understood that the possible benefits outweigh the possible dangers and acted decisively. had to the execution of the strategy than as bold as the planning, the french navy could well have ended the war in the spring of 1778. vice admiral howtz's fleet was badly scattered and was inferior. moreover the british army abandoned philadelphia on 18 june to move to new york city. while that army marched overland, it shipped the bulk of its stores on merchant men which moved slowly and in a disorganized fashion down the delaware river to delaware bay and then north to new york. haddad arrived earlier, he could have captured this enormous prize, crippled the fleet, and could have blockaded the city. the large british garrison there depended almost entirely on supplies shipped in from elsewhere. without that resupply it probably could have forced a surrender. however, this did not happen, because the fleet was slow getting to american waters. although it sailed on 13 april, it took more than a month for the spanish fleet to pass the straits of gibraltar. documents published in volume 12 demonstrate that our adverse weather, poor sailing, faulty equipment, the need to go as fast as the slowest chip, and the use of the voyage as a training exercise, caused the squadron to proceed across the atlantic that can only be described as leisurely. one of the most informative documents in the volume is the station bill for the flagship. here it is in the original and our french and english translation. it demonstrates clearly how they used the voyage to america to train officers. the station bill not only gives the station of every officer during combat that also detailed the instructions regarding their duties, such as -- on the poop deck, [indiscernible] -- as near as possible, will command to the maneuvers and musketry and watch over the rapidity of fire. another place in the station where they say, "every commander of a gun division will have control over the men attached to each gun. he will do his best to become personally acquainted with all his men and notes those who show the most seal and intelligence and those who distinction themselves in combat." while the french fleet may have been better prepared as a result of this training, its slow progress across the atlantic meant that it did not arrive at the delaware capes until 8 july. by that time the chance to defeat the fleet before could collect and retreated to a strong defensive position in new york or to capture the british army had passed. despite this opportunity, the nature of the naval war had changed dramatically. internationalization of the war meant that no longer could the british assumed they had unchallenged control of american waters or even the english channel. another effect can be gleaned from how will's reports to the admiral. "service in american waters was hard and british ships and crews suffered accordingly." british commanders in north america were thus put "between a rock and a hard place," as there was no facility to -- the british had plans to establish one. to rotate ships to england for refit and repair left of the american fleet week but to keep those vessels on station, as howe and his successors were often forced to do, reduced their effectiveness. one of the congenital factors in the french naval victory at the battle of the virginia capes in 1781 was the poor condition of the british fleet. the spring of 1778 also saw a dramatic change in british naval strategy. the british deemphasized the war in heartland america. as mentioned, they abandoned philadelphia and consolidated forces in new york and rhode island. they eventually abandoned the latter, as well. under the new strategy, mobile detachments sent by water from new york to destroy american forces in detail, to rate american seaports to keep down american privateering activity, and to support a british attempt to hold up a self-supporting loyalist base. thus the focus of british efforts would be the west indies and the periphery of the united states. in a letter to lord howe, the lords of the admiralty spelled out the new strategy. to reinforce east and west -- it was a viable strategy. however, fear of invasion caused british leadership to limit reinforcements to its army and navy in america. because of this the british were overextended and outnumbered in the united states and west indies. new york was a difficult position to hold, which limited the troops available for detaching, and as a result of written forfeited naval initiative in the western hemisphere and became increasingly reactionary. the concentration of royal forces in american waters did open up opportunities for british and loyalist privateers, a trend that would continue until war's end. because howe feared such privateering would result in desertion from royal navy ships and would provide a smaller pool from which to draw sailors, he eventually had to give way. as a result, the royal governor began issuing letters of mark and reprisal in august, 1778. this excessive privateers operating out of bermuda, sent augustine, and especially new york became more and more evident, and they garnered greater official support and had a greater impact on american shipping. the continental navy saw changes during this period, too. in the period of march to may, 1778, the continental navy had six ships captured and destroyed -- the alfred, the randolph, the columbus, the virginia, the washington, and the effingham. william mallory wrote to a friend, "our little fleet is much thinned." "only one has been captured on the ocean." these losses called into question the competence and character of the continental navy's leadership, particularly its ship commanders, and also forced a changed in the role the continental navy played. unable to contest british dominance in the bays and sees a surrounding the major cities of the united states, american seamen were pushed to the peripheries were they enjoyed some success. in north america, there were two areas, nova scotia and east florida, where american vessels dominated in the spring of 1778, and a third, the mississippi river, where they could realistically hope to contest a british dominance. in nova scotia, privateers from new england so invested, the term used by contemporary, the residents of liverpool voted to dismantle the town's fort and to inform american privateers men that "if they attempted to land under arms we should oppose them, but if they did not, they are offered to take a vessel out of the river and we shall not molest them." in georgia, gunboats, manned in large part by continental soldiers, scored a dramatic victory over the royal navy. to check an invasion of east florida by the southern continental army, captain thomas jordan led a force of three vessels to save simon's inlet in georgia, destroying three galleys. instead, the british squadron was soundly defeated in two of the vessels and it were captured. it was a germanic victory and gave the americans control of the inner coaster waters all the way from charleston to saint augustine, thus threatening the very existence of british east florida. well in active -- they were able to coddle together a naval defensive force, thus mitigating the damage and unrelated issues halted the american advance toward saint augustine. it was nonetheless an important victory and established at least for a very short time american dominance in those water, and could have changed the course of the war and the american deep south. then i wouldn't have had a career because there would have been no nathanael greene. another success was on the periphery and early 1778, occurring along the mississippi river. the origins of the expeditions to conquer west florida go back to the summer of 1777, when the governor of louisiana received a letter from colonel george morgan. it proposed a 1000 man american expedition against pensacola. galvez would provide intelligence and transport and artillery powder and provision. his response was equivocal but probably more convincing was the fact that the flotilla returned laden with arms and ammunition and provisions. after much debate, american leaders decided to dispatch a much scaled-down expedition. james welling, a captain, and 1029 man went in a boat, arriving unmolested into the heart of english territory, his party captured and ravaged a number of british settlements. they also captured several vessels, one of which was later turned into an american warship. at natches, they convinced the inhabitants to sign of oath of neutrality. he might have successfully captured west florida, however the americans began plundering those not considered friends, thus creating a pool of disaffected who were instrumental in helping the british to reestablish authority. one result of the willing expedition was that it almost sparked a war between england and spain. welling's party was too small to be viable without the help of galvez, who helped extend american raters "the the sacred right of neutrality." the english saw him as aiding and assisting and abetting his majesty's rebellion, looking upon them as separate and distinct powers. galvez also disposed of plunder accumulated by the raiders. in a letter to lord's george germane, peter chester, argued that "the only effectual method to truly address our injuries after all other methods have been tried would be to make reprisals and detain spanish property until ample restitution was made." therefore it was not a paranoid rant but an appreciation of the situation that led a beleaguered yet to determine galvez to write his superior on 14 april, "it seems the english are plotting an attack on the city," new orleans. "although the reception given to set americans is the same as in ports of europe and the islands of america, against which the english take no revenge, they see the town as defenseless. i already have two frigates in front of the city and according to this, an additional two or three are expected. one is at the mouth of the river. they cannot have any other object but this town and no business to attend to in natches. i have been informed that the commander of these frigates is a brutal man, willing to commit any kind of transgression without regard for consequences. it appears he intends to demand i turn over the americans, especially the commander in his party, and opened fire and destroy the city if i do not cecede. his lordship knows i cannot accept such a demand, and that i should be determined to defend said americans and their prizes and use all forces at my disposal although they are few for this purpose." it was a testament to the strength of galvez and to his friendship toward the united states that he was not cowed into submission by british divination. as oliver pollock reported to congress in a letter, "i cannot include this important subject without giving the greatest applause to governor galvez for his noble spirit and behavior on this occasion. though he had no batteries erected or men to defend the place against the two ships of war, with a hundred men all coming against him, and he laughed at their haughtiness and despised their attempts and in short they returned." what then ensued was an elaborate game of chicken which went on for several months and was not resolved until chester received a letter from lord george germane on 5 august, forbidding him from taking the "rash step" of "seizing spanish property." by then the material willing had exhausted the patience of both galvez and pollock so that both were dedicated to getting him out as quickly as possible. galvez went so far as to allow pollock to put out an armored vessel. even so, it was november before welling departed against a privately owned sloop. the sloop was captured at sea dwelling was taken prisoner. welling languished in british custody for almost two years before his captors permitted his exchange in late 1781. while the welling expedition boosted galvez's reputation, it was a failure for the americans. contrary to expectations, it did not permanently open the mississippi river to american commerce. in fact, the river was less available for american youth after the raid. it also hardened sentiment in british west florida in joining the american cause. clark's assessment of the exhibition is spot on -- "plunder is the prevailing passion and the country can expect little service." therefore, and west florida as in georgia and nova scotia, the americans were unable to transform temporary advantage into long-term success. in afghanistan and i had a thousand 50 eight, the british had reinforced with the nova scotia's and had undertaken an offensive against georgia. however, the idea that the continental navy cannot stand to protect the heartland prevailed. americans who attacked the british english scientist is not expected in european waters in 1778. an example of the latter was an activity of the rhode island privateer marlborough on the coast of africa. let's consider european waters. while a number of continental vessels were dispatched to european waters, including two continental frigates, the activities of which are covered extensively in volume 12, there were two continental navy captains who did the most. cunningham and jones. between may, 1777 and may, 1778, cunningham and the continental navy captured 24 british vessels, including six in the months of the spring of 1778 and they are detailed in volume 12. thanks to the onslaught of british commerce by cunningham and others in european waters, british maritime insurance increased to 28% of the value of the cargo, higher than they had been at any time during the seven years war. it is little wonder that the pirate cunningham became a hated man in england. another, probably more famous, captain who brought the fight to the british was john paul jones. while the battle between his command and the british ship is the one americans know best, jones's 28 day voyage into the sloop of spring of 1778 probably had more impact on british public opinion and the conduct of the war. sailing -- they captured and destroyed british merchant men and a british navy ship, and most notably executed a land rate against the northern british coastal town of whitehaven and an estate, which is right on the border between england and scotland. at the former, jones tried unsuccessfully to burn some 200 merchant vessels lying aground. he attempted to capture the earl of silk or who jones believed could be exchanged for a great number of american seamen. while the attempted arson was thwarted and the earl was away from home and really wasn't important enough to command the kind of exchange jones envisioned, the fact that jones and his crew landed on british soil twice and escaped demonstrated the vulnerability of english coastal towns, 4s jones put it in his report, "what was done is sufficient to show that not all their bolster navy can protect their own coast and that the seams of distress which they have occasion in america may soon be brought home to their own." it provoked a firestorm of criticism of the admiralty. "it is something strange and worthy of particular note is that at a time when the ministry are boasting of an invincible fleet which they have fitted out which is now writing it to spit head, that a little american privateer should not only ravage the coast of the kingdom but fight and take his majesty's sloops of war. it is the particular plague of the present times to rely upon appearances and neglect realities, to put the nation to a vast expanse and do little or nothing for it." that was a london newspaper. such fears concerning the vulnerability of england strengthened the hand of those who argued that greater resources should be committed to the defense of the island, which was the goal of american planners when they committed the continental may be to this risky strategy. finally, the rate strengthened the perception in europe that the younger public might actually survive as a nation. according to a neutral italian observer and the french court, the raid "caused a sensation in europe and especially france because it again confirmed to the opinion held that americans' forces are vigorous." thus i think it can be safely argued that the actions of cunningham, and especially jones, when paired with the entry of the french into the war was a game changer. the coast of west africa was another area in the periphery in testimony in parliament in february 1778 including our volume 11 analyze the effect of the war on the african trade. before the war, 200 ships engaged in the trade. by 1778 that number had been reduced to 40, and 15 of those were taken by american privateers. although most american privateers cruised for slaves near barbados, which meant complete cargoes of slaves, and because of its proximity to the american coast, which lessen the danger of recapture, a few, like marlboro, operated directly on the african coast, which should come as no surprise that a rhode island privateers should operate an african waters, since rhode islanders had actively engaged in the african slave trade before the war and were familiar with those waters. there is no record that the marlboros captain -- certainly implore you had been involved in the slave trade all his life. he sell from new bedford. the crew sailed east to the french trading post and then southward along the guinea coast for the english trading settlement. vessels captured five am a persuaded a british master to ask as pilot for them, negotiated a mutually beneficial deal with the local tribal leader and then burned the settlement when the british factors there refused to surrender the the property they help. the law, there came a canoe from sure with a black king called robin gray. steering -- when we hear of a slave ship all slave ready to sail for the west indies, all sales that running southeast by used with our fleet after us. at 2 p.m. we made the sale to anchor under the land, all hands getting ready to engage if needed. at 5 p.m. we came up with a ship at anchor. the captain order them to strike the colors, which they immediately did. at the same time running under their stern. the prize proved to be the captainl letter, william allison mounting 16 guns with it cargo of 300 slaves as rice, a very,and very lucrative prize. after missing a second slaver that he had intelligence of and with supplies running low, babcock decided to return to north america, but obviously not before having dealt a heavy blow to the english african slave trade. finally, while this is not unique to the spring of 1778, volume 12 illustrates that attitudes among sailors in the condo maybe were becoming more volatile and they were exercising more agency in their own situation. captains authority was awesome, and the tools he could wield to enforce his will aboard ship were formidable. but documentation in volume 12 illustrates the other side of the coin, that sailors were not powerless, and they could influence matters far more than one would think, given the imbalance of power, at least on paper, between captains and the enlisted. recruiting skilled sailors were such a struggle that officers amen of dubiousemen loyalty. both john paul jones and cunningham gave in to the demands of their men and allowed actions that neither officer believed was legitimate. he was notdiscovered home, he wanted to leave the state unmolested. allowing his crew to leave the estate. in the end, he got his men to agree to take only the selkirk family's silver. cost jones personally, since he later felt it necessary for his honor purchase the silver from his men and return it. similarly, cunningham allowed his men to seize british goods bound in a neutral vessel, even though the condo congress had determined to follow the rule practiced by france that free ships make free goods. his captor therefore cause major problems for cunningham and anger allies. condo maybe captains put their enterprises at risk by signing loyal to you was neither to them or to the united states buried in buying 12, when he came into conflict with his principal lieutenant, thomas simpson, john paul jones found that most of his crew recruited from simpson's hometown, sided with simpson. instance, a member of the party sent to burn the shipping and whitehaven decided that this was his chance to return home to ireland and he deserted and alerted the townspeople, thus limiting the damage done by the raiders to the partial burning of a single vessel. in another instance recounted in volume 12, captain samuel tucker of the continental frigate boston narrowly escaped death by the timely discovery and suppression of a plot aboard his vessel, as boston was completing its refit in france, two or three englishmen in the city hatched a plot to seize the frigate and sail it to england. the plan was for these seamen,en to sign on as and a few deserters who would pretend vincent and return to the frigate, they would seize the ship to root ensure the success of the mutiny him and they wanted to neutralize the ships marines. this i sought to dubai and vaguely a marine sergeant, a frenchman. he played along and then informed tucker. the plan was diabolical and included adding opium to the drinking water to drug the crew and officers, the latter for which were to be murdered. then he announced the schemers, it and the ringleaders escaped. ironically, he later successfully petitioned rich authorities for release from his enlistment claiming ill-treatment. summary ofrief events from the spring of 1778i hope demonstrates that it truly was a time of seachange in which the naval war of the american revolution was conducted. tank you. questions? >> i was struck by your comment from the writings of john paul jones that the british navy was a boasting navy. i was also struck by the fact that the british navy had a very small presence in the mediterranean, so small that he couldn't protect the things it wanted to. and further struck by the fact americas, it couldn't repair any ships. they had to be rotated back. they could do minor repairs. ory can go up to halifax down to bermuda. they had some facilities down there. plan was to possibly make new york into a refit center. to get by they sandy hook area, it's very difficult. he sat out there for about two weeks, almost three weeks. he was trying to get over the bar, but his ships were too big and he was afraid he would have to take all the cannon out, which would make him vulnerable, obviously. the reason they went down to the virginia capes or why cornwallis was sent there was to create a warm water port that the british would then use, and the idea was they would set up some facility there to refit their ships. but you are right, it was difficult because they were constantly cruising, patrolling, looking for american commerce, which was lucrative. if you captured an american full you got most of the taken the crew got a piece of it as well. so they could do minor, but in order to really refit a ship and repair it, you had to go back to the england shipyards there. they were constantly using their pumps and that did make a difference because they couldn't keep up and it slowed the process, slowed the maneuvers of the british fleet. >> at the beginning of the revolution, the colonies had been in agreement with britain to defend them, so we didn't have a navy. have we confirmed that question mark >> yes, the united states navy goes back to 1775. weres debated, there delegates to congress that argued it was a waste of time. as a matter fact, there is a modern historian who is an expert on the french navy and the american revolution. he argues the same thing. the mertens waste a lot of money trying to build all these ships is it didn't do them any good. some people at the naval history and heritage command wrote back and said that is not true, they did pray on british commerce, they did create issues in european waters. -- youd bring about could argue that some of the incidents in europe helped bring the french and later the spanish into the war, so it did play a role. but you're right, the early american navy was a lot of merchant ships that had been transformed into naval ships. then we started to build frigates and some of those frigates i mentioned were the , most of were captured them in march of 1778. two of them had been built of the delaware river. the british letter rate of the delaware. , thathould have been sunk is what washington said -- i mean, sent underwater so they could not get at them. the virginia, a brand-new american frigate, was sailing out to the chesapeake bay, lost its way, broke its rudder, and the british captured it. we were building some quality ships. another one that they built, they handed over to the french because they could not afford to keep it in action because it was too expensive. yes, it was a real burden and there was a big debate. what should be the role of the continental navy? when i talk about moving away from the heartland, that hurts a lot because you are talking about chesapeake bay, charleston. they wanted protection of some sort of navy and they wanted to keep the british privateers or the loyalist privateers off their trade. they wanted to enact a continental navy, but they could not do it because the british would hunt them down and if he them. that is why they kind of scattered. >> on this side of the atlantic, from 1778, does he go back? >> he stays until the end of 1779. he goes to north america and then down into the west and backup to north america. 1779 is the famous assault on savannah. and then he went back to france. but they kept a fleet in american waters, especially after the british evacuated newport. that became the center of the french fleet in america. it was a battle of the capes. it was a small fleet at newport that came down and, at the same time, you had a bigger fleet come from the west indies and they connected to surprise the british, who did not expect that to happen. that is one of the reasons why cornwallis was trapped. they did not expect the french navy to combine as successfully as they had. after the peace treaty, it was only a matter of time before the french got a temporary naval advantage and defeated the british fleet. the british were lucky a lot of of the time. as i said here, it could have been a disaster. they are gotten over here a little bit faster, he could have destroyed the fleet and captured all of the army's baggage and ended the war. >> both england and france have forced in the caribbean. >> yes. if you know anything about mercantilism, the point of mercantilism is you produce products you cannot produce in your homeland. so the west indies, because of their ability to produce sugar and sugar cane, were valuable. that is why, in 1778, when the british made that readjustment in their strategy, they decided they were going to emphasize and put more resources into the west indies. matter of fact, he had gotten orders after he evacuated philadelphia to send his force of 6000 down to capture st. lucia in the west indies. so there were a number of battles down there. the big naval battle, the battle of the saints, the americans thought that would reopen the war. which was a british victory, by the way. and you can argue -- i do not think there is any argument -- that the british second empire was created during the american revolution. they were able to win in the west indian islands and their successes in the indian subcontinent. they had some luck over there as well. that is the basis for the great reddish empire where the sun never sets. -- the great reddish empire -- british empire where the sun never sets. >> i was wondering if you could talk a bit about your documentary project. i think it is remarkable that this single fat volume covers only a couple of months. a couple of key months. i am interested in how many volumes are projected in the process of hunting and gathering material. >> this is what she is talking about. this is two months work of work -- worth of work. we have volume 13 teed up. we thought we would get four months into it. we had been getting three or four months usually into a volume. this one was particularly rich. june and july and part of august. that is the battle of rhode island. hopefully, it will be out in the very near future. in the future, the chances are you will not see this in book form. we are going to probably do them as digital editions. you will probably see them online primarily. the idea is maybe, down the line, we will put them into letterpress because we give away a lot of these volumes to research libraries. did you get one? i hope. yes, ok, so the reason why -- we don't just do the continental navy. we do documents that relate to all kinds of things. social history, as you can see when i was talking about the agency for the continental sale, we do a lot for british law. i quoted one law from the marlborough, but we have others where they capture vessels. we have official documents, unofficial documents, newspaper reports, people's letters, memoirs, all kinds of things. it is chock full of good stuff. if you are a member here, come over and pull it out sometime. it is a wonderful series. the expectation is that it is not something like david mcculloch would do. the expectation is that david mcculloch will use this someday to write books. if you follow the naval history and heritage command, they have done a series on the war of 1812. the number of books have been published about that. and a couple of books have just come out about the continental navy, one by george don and another by tim -- i am having a senior moment, excuse me. but anyway, both of those made extensive use of our volumes. they were able to shorten their research process significantly by using these volumes. so that is what we do. >> the sources for the documents, obviously, you have a lot of american sources. but what sources are you using from great britain, france, spain? >> in england, we got a lot of our documents from the national archives. the greenwich maritime museum has a bunch. plus, bryn mawr university contributes him because one of the admirals had history papers there. so a variety of places. the french, the same kind of thing. we get them from their national archives and also from the city archives, those kinds of places. spanish, we do not have as much. the spanish have done a pretty good job. they have published some of their documents. so we have been able to get some from them. a lot of this was on a long time ago and some of these documents have been microfilmed. we do not have the originals because it would be to pricey -- too pricey for us to acquire. we have a few. the french document, this station bill, that came from the french archives and we have a copy of it. >> you mentioned governor gonzales -- >> galvez? >> galvez. >> one of the great unsung heroes of the american revolution. we have an hispanic population here. we have one of the great heroes. why don't they make a big deal about it? >> my question may go in that general direction. if he had wrote to his superior saying we may be attacked by the british and he described the british fleet in north america and the caribbean and a french fleet also in the caribbean, i am assuming the governor of new women's -- of new orleans was writing to someone who had a spanish fleet somewhere. >> not yet. the spanish were spending their time escorting treasure ships back to spain. that is one of the reasons why they did not want to declare war at this time. they are still coming back from mexico and peru, that kind of thing. when the spanish coming to the war, they spend most of their time -- the spanish were most interested in capturing gibraltar and protecting their american empire. and the quality of the spanish ships is not very good. really, they are not that offensive. having said that, galvez does launch a very active campaign. he captures or recaptures everything that willing had captured and then he moves along the gulf coast, captures mobile, and the center of florida was pensacola and he captured it. the american commander in the south wrote to galvez and said, why don't we come together in saint augustine? by then, the war was over. galvez was very active. after the war, he was a young man appointed viceroy for mexico and he died. some people say he was poisoned. other people say it was something but -- something like yellow fever. they are not sure. but his after action report after pensacola, he wrote -- the navy officers were afraid to sail into the bay because they thought they would get blasted by british artillery. he wrote, "i did it." they were shooting over the ship because they did not depress it long enough to hit them. i guess he was a bit of an egomaniac. they are actually building a replica of him in spain right now. someday, i think they are going to try to come over here and celebrate galvez by sailing around the united states, particularly the southern portion. >> put on hold due to lack of funds. lafayette's hermoine granger is currently doing sea trials off of lower shelf -- lla -- la rouchelle. they are short about .5 million euros. they are looking for support. >> i was there when they started developing it. i am sorry to hear that they have stopped in the short-term. let's hope they are able to resurrect that project. >> you just mentioned cannon fire. how did captain tucker's frigate compare with english frigates and armament? >> americans were pretty good at cannon fire. in a situation where they were not overwhelmed, they could hold their own. in the world 1812, you know that there is a string of american victories because we could work the guns as fast or faster as the british navy. the british navy was known for rapidity of cannon fire. they would aim low and try to blast behold of the other ship. -- the hull of the other ship. the french did it differently. they would try to de-mast. they would aim for the rigging. think about what you are trying to hit. they had a different approach. so the british were able to get a lot more follies -- volleys in a shorter space of time then the french were. also, the french did not have as experienced and dedicated of seamen. they were somewhat new to the game, if you will. as to america versus britain, the americans could hold their own. a good american privateer could slug it out till to tell -- toe-to-toe with a british naval vessel. >> i ask that because the army forces were notoriously short of artillery in the early part of the war. there were no forges. very difficult for them to go toe to toe. when compared to the navy and state, whatever the term is for their navies, did they manufacture their cannons? how did that happen? >> john brown, who i talked about, had a foundry in rhode island. he manufactured the cannons, some of which were not as good as others. there was also manufacturing going on in some mid-atlantic states. virginia had a foundry as well. so that was part of it. another would be go to france. tucker, when he was in france, got a few guns. one of the things that the american commissioners in france -- they would commission for guns, cannon ordinance, small guns, and they would be shipped over to america. naval cannons as well. a lot of times, it was just artillery. sometimes you see letters where they will lend it to the army and the army will lend it back to them as this kind of ordinance or you see privateers will go to the state and say, we have a ship ready to go out. you see this in baltimore a whole lot. they will go to the state council and say, we have a privateer ready to go. this happened a couple of times. there are a couple of letters in here. they say, we have it ready to go, but we cannot find our armament. you have an old, decrepit ship that used to be in the navy. can we have the guns? they would say, sure, but you have to replace them six weeks out. i am sorry that it one last question and then we will call it. >> let me ask you about the state navies. the continental navy only commissioned and built less than a dozen frigates. they issued over 1000 letters of borrowing. what and where did the state navies contribute? >> they were designed to protect state waters, so they are smaller. during the war, they would try to protect themselves. the georgia state navy were gunboats. they would grow and sale at the same time. they were not good enough to go out into the ocean. south carolina had a state navy that they go into the ocean. as a matter of fact, the frigate randolph led a flotilla which included a number of state navy vessels from south carolina when it was destroyed in the battle with yarmouth. the state navy vessel got away. the state navies of virginia and maryland were designed to stay mostly in the chesapeake and protect it from raiders and privateers. and gunboats -- >> no ship of the line. >> we were building one ship of the line at the time, and when we finished it, we gave it to france. it was only going to be a 50-gunner, not a big one. we bought frigates. as a matter of fact, there were those advocating, let's not even go for frigates, that's -- let's go for frigs, sloops, fast things that can go in shallow water. the reason they could operate is because it was very shallow and the british could not go in with their navies ships. if you know anything about little egg harbor, it is south toward philadelphia, so you could go to new york and slip back in and the british could not get at you. that is the kind of thing. some, you get up to new england, some of their ships actually went sailing. captured a couple of privateers down off charleston on the way back. so they went down to the west indies and sailed around looking for prizes. theywould get supplies, would even trade down there on occasion. the massachusetts state navy, the connecticut state navy, they had some blue water ships that could go out into the ocean and did. those were little more aggressive. they played a variety of roles. there's some interesting studies done of the state navy. as a matter fact there is one about the georgia state navy which is going to be published soon, so we will watch for it. it is a good one. [applause] >> thank you, dr. conrad. our next public program is an author's talk with alex myers discussing his novel, , on deborahy samson. he will be discussing the process of writing historical dixon on thursday, october 16. so we hope to see you there. please enjoy some light refreshments in the winter .arden thank you all for coming. 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Transcripts For SFGTV 20140605

and tender loin. our neighborhood has 4,000 children and 3 schools. the violence and the drug activity in and surrounding the district border between the police district of tender loin and northern stations are larkin street is a grave concern, a major concern. we ask that the district captains of both stations work with us in order to develop a safety plan and to work with the community for its immediate implementation of such a plan. i would like to add something. we would like you all to provide us with ideas, as to how we can work together with the police. in order to improve this neighborhood of larkin. where there is a lot of violence. and i am very sad to realize that the violence is committed by the people of hispanic background because i am latin myself. and i would like you all to provide us with ideas as to what we can do as an organization. in order to improve the district and where we live. to have a healthier and quieter lifestyle. >> very grateful ahead of time for this request that imposing to you all. thank you. >> thank you, very much. >> thank you. >> if we could have a moment and maybe get the captain for just a quick second, sorry. >> i realize what we are talking about is the district only has a small bit of the tendyer loin and i know that you have pointed out that specifically in an area that is right on the border bye-bye , by the park and we do touch upon it and maybe you or the chief could give the public a little idea of what is going on in that area and what we could do and some suggestions. >> yeah, as i mentioned earlier, in the presentation, that is an area where i have received a number of e-mails, calls, about crime and activity that ends up flowing from one side of the border to the other currently the northern station has both sides of larkin street and when you go east of that it is the tender loin and a lot of these individuals, whether they are committing violent acts or selling narcotics which is usually inner related in that area, it becomes a concern for the community that is down there and so, i have had conversations with captain turner as a matter of fact and we had the discussions yesterday about that and i think that it is important that we both get together and collaborate with the community, and i will give them my card tonight so that we can have the real meaningful meetings about not only how we can address it from the law enforcement but what we need from the community for some of the businesses and some of the residents that there are to buy in with some of the things that they can support us with, to help to try to address that problem. and so i will be giving my card to them and i will speak to the captain and we will get a more collaborativive meeting with those groups so that we can address it. one of the challenges is that the narcotics activity does fluctuate into both of those and sometimes we will see that we can make a number of arrests and i know that the captain has made just in that area, at least 70 narcotics arrest and we have made just as many and sometimes it becomes not necessarily a resolving door but they get replaced and it gets moved about and we have to look at things besides the arrests because it is difficult to arrest our way out of that situation, there are other things that we need to work with with the community to try to get those addressed, and we will. >> and we can throw any resources that both captains can share from the hall and join with our federal partners to do an operation, in the eastern end of the tender loin earlier in the year and we can put together an operation in the western end, that sends a clear message to the dealers and then for the user which are prevalent in the area, the drug court is located in the tender loin. and anybody arrested that is a user would be a candidate for drug court which has been effective. >> thank you, so much for coming. and taking the time to share your concerns with us because we do often talk about the number of families in the area. one suggestion that i had talked about that we did successfully as a neighborhood prosecutor in haze valley was partnering with the community members to have the district attorney office and you are lucky to have karin, and a great city attorney, also, to identify the frequent fliers and the returning drug dealers who are returning to the same corners that the district attorney office can flag those and in a disposition, which is negotiating whatever the plea is, if the community mostly wants a stay away order and that is something that i know that the district attorney office has done a great job with and so i think that it sounds like you have all of the component parts to put together something that the community voice is heard in the courtroom and so you can break that cycle to some degree with some of the drug dealers and i think that we have had success in that and i urge you to connect with karin and the district attorney in the office. thank you for taking the time and if you have your family it is clear how much your community matters to you. >> what you are talking about is maybe at that border, that maybe doing like a special operation? >> right. so if we will pair off them and yes. >> thank you. >> and i am just wondering, and if it is a question more for the chief, is there a way for us to like the folks are sophisticated enough to know where the borders are and it is not just this one location, can the district officers cross over and go a block over, is there a way when we do the redistricting to overlap them by a block so we don't have these gaps potentially where the folks can hide out? >> i am happy to discuss, we have never done the overlapping thing before, that seems if there is no ownership that could be a problem but i am happy to actually include you or any of the other commissioners as we look at redistricting. and we just had a preliminary meeting with the consultants that are accumulating all of the data on redistricting that is required by the chart and her they should be coming back with some early iterations of the potential maps and i know that one thing that we did not do, last time, is look at things like things that are just outside of the data but we as forever as police officers in san francisco, we know that there are certain anomalies like it used to be that levenworth was the border and we ran into the same thing where people and the west side of the street was one district and the east side was the other and so trying to find blocks that are a little more neutral like van ess avenue as the dividing line where there are clear barriers and then when you have a problem block, like larkin street that just one station has ownership of it. and so that will be something and greg and all of the other captains have been solicited for their input for the certain anomalies but it happened certainly from the prosecutorers and or the public defenders in the city know those areas. >> right. >> and so it is an expertise that you possess that you might not think about. >> the second idea that i had and i have seen in the past that we have had sort of the special operations targeting the schools and play grounds and adding in the enhancements if there is drug dealing going on within the 500 feet of that playground and 1,000 feet and just basically a block and so i am wondering if given this particular location, >> right. >> and i don't know if we are starting that idea. >> and we do things like that in the operation and we did do with the dea and the u.s. attorney's office and the eastern end of the district. was specifically targeted at those people that were traffickers and bringing narcotics in that were within the district and within the limits of schools and we did apply those enhancements and so i am happy to revisit that with the u.s. attorney and the dea. >> sure. >> thank you very much. >> next speaker. >> thank you. ladies and gentlemen, of the audience and commissioners good evening, i am lawrence and i have been away for 4 and a half months because i have been completing criminal investigation courses. i could not attend on tuesday wednesday or thursday night, but very briefly i wanted to bring up before i get into my actual subject is that i work for hud in 2005 and 2003, to 2005, putting ex-cons in the tender loin that get out of prison, and part of the job is that when they get out of prison after a 8, 10, 12-year sentence, the federal government gives you ten dollars and sends you on the street and call up hud and hud to get an apartment in the tender loin for up to a year, while they get their stuff together, about 60 percent of these guys go back to prison after one or two years. and very briefly, i would like to talk about two things, quickly. i watched the presentation in the neighborhood and i think that the gentleman that spoke in the beginning is right that you should do this conference in the community. and you should push to get as many community people to show up as possible. not just a handful because you put a sign here and there and so his point was well taken with me at least any way. and two is that also it is time to talk about restructuring all of the districts and we have eleven voting districts but we have a mixed bag of police districts that crisscross across all of them and i think that we should talk at some point down the road is that the match, the police districts with the voting districts. and so the people would know exactly who to deal with at any given time in the voting district, and what supervisor and what captain of what precinct. and i think that if you look at it across the board here it creates a lot of confusion for the public at large, and no offense that the captain that spoke tonight is that it would be helpful if he printed a bunch of the phone numbers of the station for the brochure as well, so they will know who to call at any given time with a problem. last, is this, is that i have come back here after a few months and i see that we have a big change here in terms of commissioners but i look on the commissioner list there is no abrupt changes and they come and go as please or off the e-mail sight or search a web site, with no explanation whatsoever is who is taking whose place, i think that it is about time that you start announcing, for the public ad large, and start getting lay men, instead of the attorneys hand picked by the mayor to be on the commission, the people in the population that should know about an upcoming position as commissioner and they apply for it. and then you can turn them down, or accept them. i thank you for your time on these issues. >> thank you, next speaker? >> good evening, my name is jackie bryson and i am here already to apprise the chief of what i am about to say, it is a housekeeping issue which is sort of funny but not really, as i struggle to get here, on muni, when it finally showed. yes, we have all had a good laugh on that one, thanks a lot unions. and i took the 5 l so that i could get here on time. and i have to get off across the street on van ess which is a nice place to have district boarders i agree with the barriers. and i struggle across vaness and managed not to get hit by a car and on the sidewalk and not get hit by a bicycle or a skateboarder, or an idiot and i struggled up the access to get to the door, and i pushed the button, and i can can't et door to open so that i can get inside of the building and it is only about 5:15. and so i managed to scurry and it is a term that i use often for myself to the end door and i was able to actually make the door that turns around and i actually did it, and got inside, just as a deputy was getting ready to lock it. i said, why was i not able to get my disabled access into this building from this side of the building? and he said, well we normally lock the door at 5:00 p.m. and i looked at him and i said, isn't there a police commission meeting tonight? and so he goes and there is a thing that has all of the events that are going on in city hall posted. you were posted for 5:30, what is a girl to do, show my super powers and walk through walls that is absurd, the door needs to remain unlocked at least until 5:30, if not, at least until a quarter of 6:00, what you don't want the public to be able to come to the police commission meetings? we are not even talking about neighborhood meetings being relocated here. but like i said, what is a girl supposed to do? walk through walls? i am wonderful but i am not going to show you everything that i can do like walk through a wall, i am done. >> thank you. >> next speaker? >> good evening. >> good evening. >> greg maratana from the japan town neighborhood. the captain reported about the little and the wonderful stickers that mo magic made and we put on just the parking meters because that is the only place that they could go and they went up the first part of march and i just want to report to the captain that in february, they were like 27 auto boosts, and dropped to 17 in march and 15, and then down to 7 this last month. and so, so far, the pilot and it looks like it is helping. and so, i just wanted to report that, you know, the captain came up with this working together, and we got some of these young people to put these on, and unfortunately, we may have to go back to mo magic because the stickers unfortunately are fading very quickly and so the colors are and the message is there but it is fading so we are going to have to maybe do something, but we will figure that out if it works out later. so the good news is that things are improving in the community. and however, because of the crime that had been increased before, the main and some of the businesss in japan town have now formed through sf safe, and they have formed the japan town business watch group. and now, that these people are communicating a small group of them, it is amazing how many of these be on the look outs have gone up. but it has helped to prevent some other merchants from being victimized because they have got a photo with some of the places that have cameras. and we would continually like to work with the business watch group, and we would like to work with sf safe to look at how to get more training there, but also the issue of the surveillance in terms of cameras. and we have met with a gentleman from the union square, business improvement district. and so we are looking at it and of course it is going to take a little resource but we appreciate what sf safe has been able to do and we acknowledge the fact that williams station has made an out reach and has done something that has moved forward and it is small. you know, we will take it. and but the only thing that the community is really looking for, is that there used to be two beat cops, going through jtown, and that made a whole bigger difference and because they knew them and they all asked for wane and they have not been around for a long time. and if i might as far stickers, the captain is nothing short of heroic. >> you are right. >> but what he had to do to get those stickers on the parking meters and it was pointed out to both of us where they are just going to fade and we begged could we just put them on there to see if they work? and so, now that you have these statistics that you can give to the captain and i think that we can get, and we talked about, that we would then go back and find a durable sticker, and then move it to i see, the captain is the new captain of the southern and the lieutenant dahani are a legend in the western edition from the years past and so now we can get, and now that we have some data that we can tap, we could probably get those stickers made into something that will be more permanent. >> would i like to wait until august because the highest number was 35. >> and he does not have any numbers right now any way, so just give him the numbers >> let's wait until we get the numbers and we can show that the trend is positive that way. but, yes, i mean that i think that it is making a difference because you know, the merchants understand that if the auto boost happens out on the street, they are going to go home. >> i guess the song goes that we will see you in september. >> that is right. >> thank you. >> please come forward. >> again we have the interpreter, so please provide additional time. >> [ speaking in a foreign language ] . >> good evening, my name is margarita and i belong to the organization known as latin voice i have been living in the tender loin and i have come to ask for your support. because, on market street, for a long time, for many years now, that there is a lot of vandalism and often, there is people fighting out on the street. and selling drugs. and the families in the tender loin walk by with the children and they are facing huge danger. and we need your help. >> and we are willing in the best way possible to cooperate for the police, and the station police, in order to improve the area thank you. >> thank you very much. >> okay. >> next speaker? >> good evening, sir. >> >> mr. president, and vice president, commissioners, my name is thomas simpson. and i run an arts organization at the african american art and culture complex. we focus mostly on adults, but sometimes we do community engagement projects with youths. this year, as a result of some research i found, in terms of the number of african american youth who are incarcerated we decided to do something focused on black kids. and connecting them with all of the black men, and for inspiration and up lift and some other things. and as part of my working on this project, and i have had some focus groups with some young black boys. and in one of these groups, something was said that startled me that may not startle everyone else but it did me that i like to share, we talked about education and relationships and gangs, and the police, and we began to talk about who we would like to have at a particular event. that is going to take place on august the 16th, and i thought, well we have to have something from the legal arena come and speak and be a part of the event. and one of the kids was a little shaken by that. and asking him why he was shaken by that. he mentioned that if he had to run on someone on the street, he would rather run into a gang member who he did not know, than a policeman, to me it is startling but maybe it is not. he felt that he could negotiate himself out of a issue with a gang member and not be able to negotiate himself out of a meeting with the police. if some issue arose. around this time or something happening in the valencia garden and in asking some other kids is this usual, or unusual? and i have to say that i found it to be not so unusual for black kids and so with all of the out reach that you are doing, and that you are planning and that is happening, i hope that you will consider the population of the young, black, youth, particularly of 13, to 17. >> that is the exact group that we are focusing on. >> and the youth in the south east section of the city and the mission and the fillmore. >> and that statement that i said, is that something that is unusual? >> i would say that it is all too common for me and i think that it will be more uncommon as we go forward. >> thank you. >> and let me just say, that it was not uncommon, but those young people, they need to get some officers in front of them right away, i mean, i am sure that jason johnson and i can get the officers right there so you can have the discussions with the police officers. and here is the, they don't like be profiled and i don't like them profiling our officers and if he feels that way, let's get the officers in front of them to begin to connect with them and deal with those issues because i don't want them growing up, you know, and it is not going to work. so i can give you the names of the officers and i know some officers that would be very happy to come. >> and i was going to say that there are way more cool cops than there are uncool cops. and so we don't need to jason is not, you know he is not the only game in town if you tell me the neighborhoods that you are talking about there are tons of great cops and northern station and they would take exception as the commissioner says, at getting pinned with a broad stroke and they would want to literally live it down and have that conversation. >> i think that i would agree with you, but i think that there is the perception. >> we are only going to beat it back by having the conversation. >> and i think that i am in your complex all of the time, and the shakespearean productions there all of the time and i have also been, the president in the board and the former president of the board and the community center and so i know what the officers in the northern district do, in that district, and if you are having an event on august the 16th and you think that you need to, and we need to be there, and i think that we, i will make the promise to be there and i will work with the captain or anybody else to make sure that you have officers there. and great, cops. to start to change that, perception, because, that is absolutely the wrong perception that we, and that the kids have and we want to have that perception, changed. >> i know. and just to balance it out, you know. the captain he has the cops coaching the sea hawk football and the cops in the hutch and there are recruits coming from the academy and working the leagues and the fitness program that he was just talking about and coordinated through and is also in the district and these are the officers working all of these things and i believe that the academy was at the fillmore ymca and that was our dedicated youth program that the last academy class that graduated from was spending four hours a month and then there is a lot of momentum and we don't want to leave any kids with. >> totally. >> without it. >> and we are not going to please everybody, but i think that we need to have that conversation. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and i mean, that you and in all fairness there was an incident at valincia gardens and i think that the officers really do a good job working with the youth. >> these kids don't live in the garden but this is something that they heard that happened. >> it was on the news. >> it got the press and it was in november and now we are heading into the middle of june and so it is tough, you know, and the officers do so many great things. and they get just a they get five minutes of, for instance, the event that that happened, that was the day that bat kid happened, and before the sunset on bat kid we were over shadowed, and the rest of the world did not know about the gardens but in san francisco it was over shadowed by the gardens and now the officers do these unbelievable things, for instance, jason johnson taking a group of kids to africa, and raising all that have money by himself. and that was our weekend story, i think in the morning and nobody else is talking about it. >> so, bad stuff sticks and the good stuff does not to, and we are happy to have as many conversations as we need to, the officers are putting so much heart into their work these days, that i hate to have them, again, pinned with a broad stroke. >> and i just want to, in my point is this, not all of the kids all of the time. stop putting cops in front of them, you tell them and they can have it out. the only way that a young man is going to feel differently is if you put an officer in front of him and you can say that to him and they can go back and forth. >> all right. >> and i was cut off and i do agree with the chief there is just a lot of good that the officers are doing. it is something that if you have an opportunity to hook them up, that would be great because i think that will see a different side of the police department. >> commissioner loftus. >> we are not going to let you sit down. >> i just want to say that for my colleagues we are so passionate about kids and so you are getting a lot of reactions, but i am just really grateful that you took the time to share that with us and part of the thing of the voice of the youth and making sure that they are heard in the circles of power and the fact that you took the time to share that with us and you can say and commit back and have the

Transcripts For KBCW Bay Area Focus With Susan Sikora 20130714

episodes. that's right, steve harvey is the host with all of the crazy families. >> the underwear you're wearing, if it could talk, what would it say to you? >> wash me. [ laughter ] . hello, everyone. i want to send a big thank you to all of our current honda customers. . good morning. i'm your host dr. brenda wade. could the connection between childhood stress, poverty, and trauma lead to illness in adulthood? dr. nadine burke harris said yes. the uc berkeley train's -- with a master in public health in harvard and treats patients with third world diseases here in san francisco. and the founder of the bayview hunters point and opened the center for youth wellness. she's working with hillary clinton to heal children and joins us with groundbreaking ideas. welcome. >> thank you. >> dr. burk, it's an honor to you have here. i'm one of your groupies. i have been such an admirer of your work for years. you're the first physician i know of to actually connect a child's emotional experiences with illness. >> thank you so much. it's my pleasure to be here, brenda and i am excited to be doing this work. i think it's important we connect the science with the practice of what we're doing for our kids. >> exactly. what does science tell us about how emotions make you sick? >> there is an overwhelming body of evidence at this point that demonstrates that that experience of a traumatic event or chronic stress, whether it's growing up in poverty or experiencing domestic or community violence. >> uh-huh. >> and it activates your stress response system. >> yes. >> and we can call it the fight of flight system. >> exactly. >> and when that is activated repeatedly over and over again, particularly intensely, it creates a whole serious of chemicals and hormones in the body that damage health. >> yes, and they damage health in the severe way. most people know that emotions make you sick and that you have something upsetting happen and you have a stomach ache or you get scared and you have trouble breathing. over time, i try to explain this to people over time that we get stuck there. the body doesn't get to reset to a healthy level, and you brought that science into your practice. when you talk about children going through severe traumas, what kinds of things are you seeing have happened to children and what happens later? >> when i started my practice at the cpmc practice at bayvow center, we started with kids with asthma and overweight and kids who needed their shots and one of the thing found was for many kids sent to me with a diagnosis of adhd. >> right. >> and when i did my job and did a thorough history and exam, i found most didn't have adhd, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. >> right. >> and when the heard the stories of my patients, kids witnessing their parents arrested, kids who saw domestic violence on a daily basis, kids witnessing shootings outside of their homes. >> yeah. >> who never have that feeling of safety as a doctor, i felt like it was important for me to do my job, and i investigated how does this affect the developing brains and bodies of kids? >> exactly. >> and this is the important thing. most people think of children as miniature adults when we know your brain is not finished until you're 24 years old and that brain in a child is so vulnerable. >> and you are exactly right. because children's brains and bodies are still developing, they're particularly susceptible to the harms of what we new call toxic stress. >> yes. >> and the real groundbreaking research came out in 1998, a study done in keiser, san diego, and this was done among 26,000 adults. this is keiser, san diego. the population was 70% caucasian. >> yes. >> and 70% educated. >> yeah. >> and they found folks with four or more categories of trauma were 2 1/2 times as likely to have chronic obstructive pull mop airy disease. >> wow. break that down. >> people who had four times as many, what, what would that be? >> four categories of what they call adverse childhood experiences and that was physical, emotional, or sexual abuse. physical or emotional neglect. apparent -- a parent with mental illness, substance dependence who was epcars rated, domestic violence or parental separation or divorce. >> yes. >> and if they had four or more of those categories, an idea with four more was 250% as likely to have hepatitis. >> wow. >> someone with seven or more was 3 1/2 times, 360% as likely to have heart disease, the number one killer in the united states. >> wow. >> and so linking heart disease, linking hepatitis, linking any kind of illness to these traumas now, you made up an acronym that i love. you call it ace? >> yes. >> these are not what you want in your hand. these are not the ones won't to play with. >> yeah. >> these are the kinds where e is a physiological experience. >> yeah. >> and that is astonishing. i love keiser. it's had groundbreaking work and a shoutout to our good friend at keiser. >> exactly right. >> and this is that kind of work that advances health and when we look at children and parents not knowing this inter- - information, how crucial is it we intervene as they are children? >> we work closely together to develop protocols to do universal screening. >> uh-huh. >> so we can do early and effective intervention and we can prevent the long-term negative outcome. >> wow. >> all right, hold it right there, dr. burke. if you want to know how we can please them, the negative long- term outcomes meaning get your kids healthy and keep them healthy even if there is trauma. stay there with more. . hi, welcome back. we're continuing the most amazing conversation with dr. nadine burke harris. how trauma can make our children sick. and what we can do about it. before we give our parents and our audience and anyone in the community who wants to help our children, first tell me about the project you're doing with hillary clinton? >> that is so exciting. >> yes. >> and the name of the initiative is too small to fail. >> too small to fail. i love that. that is a great name. >> and what the initiative does is focuses on the importance of the early years. and what secretary clinton has done is really asked us to take the science and the research and pull that together coming up with strategies and how we can give every child in america the best start possible. >> oh, that is amazing. how did she find you? i am so plaid you two are working together. >> that is a great question. too small to fail is a partnership between a bay area organization called next generation that was -- . >> wonderful. >> -- founded by tom and jim styers. >> uh-huh. >> and that is focusing on doing the best we can for the next generation. >> uh-huh. >> and this comes out of that work, next generation has worked closely with the clinton foundation and that is how we came together. >> fantastic. however it happened, kismet and may have been what we need. >> uh. >> we have so much work to do to educate parents. to educate communities, to protect the most vulnerable members of our families and humanity. and -- community. what is the most important thing you want us to know as parents, as community members? what can we do to help our children? >> there is some really simple things, actually, that most of us can do to make a big difference to give our kids the best possible opportunity and one of those things is taking the time out to spend time with your kids and play with your kids, read with your kids. >> hmm. >> the science of early childhood brain development tells us when this time when children are making millions of brain connections of brain cells. >> yes. >> and that is important. family time, reading time makes a difference. >> you may want to write this down, everybody. this is golden. the key here is there is another element. >> uh-huh. >> in the reading time and playing time. what is happening is children can relax. >> yeah. >> and wheny that relax, their brains absorb more and build more brain patterns. >> exactly right. >> when we're in that positive space with our children, note, i said positive, it makes a big difference, and i emphasize it's because many parents are stressed themselves and they don't realize that we need to relax as parents so our children can relax. >> honestly, i didn't plan for to you say that, bah that is exactly right. the thing that i tell so many of the parents of my patientssta is take time to take your own temperature. >> yes. >> anda health hi -- healthy parent is the most important building block for a healthy child. >> yes. >> doing that self-care, taking the time for parents to do their own wellness is critically important. we as a community can support that and employers allowing parents to have flexible work hours to be there and attend to the children is so critically important and there are things we can do on the individual level and the family level, the self-care level. >> yes. >> and even in the workplace. >> and in the workplace and i will go further here. i like to see the legislative level also. i have travelled in parts in the world that are so family- centered. >> yeah. >> and then i come home to my beloved country. >> yeah. >> and find we're not as family centered. we don't have laws that encourage family health and development. we don't have an automatic maternity leave of six months. >> yeah. >> and there are other benefits that we need to bring here. for all of those members of our audience who like to get involved in legislative initiatives, jump on this one, would you? and, dr. burke, how can we support you with what you'ring to. how can we help you? i know that about any time there is a new revolutionary initiative, you need support. >> thank you and there are lots of ways to support whether it's volunteering or making a donation or any of those things to the center for wellness. we have information about that on our website, centerforyouthwellness.org. >> great, i will give that to people at the end of the segment to make sure they can write it down. what would volunteers do? >> there is lots of things volunteers can do and key have community engagement initiatives to get involved in the community. >> good. >> and we have for volunteers wanting to help with the programs we develop, we ask for a minimum of a six-month commitment. >> great, that is important. >> yeah. >> and so everybody gets the most out of it. >> that's right. >> and what is next for you in this incredible initiative and partnership that is now extending across the country and with hillary clinton? >> that has been absolutely incredible. the -- secretary clinton's ability to shed a spotlight on this important work and also to have that be informed by the science and the data is -- has been absolutely unbelievable. >> good. >> and we have been an advisor to the small project and crow will continue to do so. >> beautiful. >> we're excited to also share the voices of the families we see every day. >> yes. >> and, i mean, imagine that secretary clinton gets to hear the stories of the families i care for. >> that is beautiful. yo yeah. >> and people whose voices need to be heard. >> make a note, center for youth wellness, run down there and help dr. burke harris. for information about the center for youth wellness, go to centerforyouthwellness.org on your screen and make a donation right there and can you volunteer to help. we all play a part in keeping our children healthy. dr. burke harris, thank you so much. it's an honor to have you here and stay right there. we have more straight ahead. . ah, the 20th annual afrosolo arts festival gets underway in two weeks. clergy, legislator, and the community at large will be exploring the arts as a way of coming together and to celebrate. we're celebrating the african- american voice. take a look. ♪[ music ] [ indiscernible ] >> he doesn't have anything to live for either. give me liberty or death! >> well, i am sure there -- you're in the audience and don't talk about -- >> please, set back and enjoy. [ laughter ] >> oh. wow. i can watch the performances all day and here to tell us about this year's upcoming event is the wonderful founder, jefferson award winner of the afro solo festival; welcome back. >> thank you so much, dr. wade. >> it's always a pleasure to have you here. and there is something about watching performances. we were just talking to dr. nadine burke about stress, and i realized that you have got one of the answers. when we watch performances, our stress goes down and the creative center in the brain lights up, and we start feeling good. it connects us to one another. >> yeah. >> and another thing is the hope is that the mind to explore ideas or issues that if we're talking in general, we may not be open to. i think when the lights go down, the brains go up. >> oh, i like that. the light goes down and the brain goes up. thomas, you have been bringing the light down and brain up for 20 years 20 years, congratulations. >> the memories of the people who performed and where we have coming in the future. our theme this year is celebrating, saluting the past. celebrating the future? celebrating the program and storing into the future. >> right, have it again. we're saluting the past. >> salute the past, celebrate the present, and sore into the future. >> sore into -- soar into the future. >> soar into the future. i love that. >> celebrate and soar. >> celebrate and soar. can i work with that. thank you. what do you have planned for this year? there is always something fabulous. before you tell us that, how do you fool having completed 20 -- feel having completed 20 years of an amazing dream? >> it's amazing. there is something surreal about it because it seemed like it was yesterday. i wonder what happened with the 20 years. it seems so flowing by. >> right. >> and isn't that the story of life? >> yeah. >> the artist we presented the works, what we have seen, the lives touched in terms of the artist as well as the audience is quite amazing and, as i said, somewhat unbelievable that this happened. >> what was your favorite moment, thomas? >> it's difficult to say what the favorite moment was. but i guess part of the whole experience is seeing people's eyes open up. it's having people connect to each other. around the issues. >> uh-huh. >> from donna lacy's, the daughter was murdered to have him tell that story. >> yeah. >> which was wonderful. >> stories about sexuality and race, stories about connecting people. >> yes. >> those stories on the stage and seeing the reaction to the audiences, that is a personal reaction. memories that i probably won't forget. >> oh, god. i can imagine having been to so many performances of afro solo. of course, i have many high points, you know what my favorite is. >> yeah. >> and that is watching the dance. >> yes. >> i have a couple on film and it's really nice to see where she began to where she is now. >> i think that is one of the things you have done. >> uh. >> you have nurtured artists also. there are artists who had a chance to bring really experimental work that they could not have presented elsewhere to afro solo. >> right. >> you took young artists. >> right. >> and given them a chance to develop confidence in their art on your stage. you have really been a gift to so many of us, whether we were sitting on one side watching or whether it was those people who were on the board's, thomas. i want to thank you. >> thank you. >> what have you got this year as we salute, celebrate, and soar? >> salute, celebrate, and soar. there are several events to take place. >> uh-huh. >> starting to the 29th at the commonwealth club. we'll have a pound discussion of the influences of the arts. >> oh, wonderful. >> past, present, and projecting into the future. >> beautiful. >> it fits into our theme. >> and who will be on that panel with you at the commonwealth club in. >> crow have a fabulous panel. >> uh-huh. >> richard mayhew. >> yes. >> a noted participator. >> yes. >> who -- painter. >> yes. >> who knew a lot of people from the harlem renaissance. >> he was one of ansel adamss final students. >> yes. >> that's wonderful. >> and having him there was phenominal and ansel did a lot of photographer. mr. mayhew brings the paintings and the colors. >> tell us a little bit. we have a moment left of the festival this year. >> we have the commonwealth club. we'll have our 11th jazz concert. at yorba buena gardens. >> oh, good. and if you're not in good health, you're not going go solo. >> that's right. >> we want you in good health and then, we have a visual arts show. again, we're asking artists to think about an artist in the past and reflect on them. >> beautiful. i am so sorry. we have to wrap it up here. there is so much more i know you have something amazing. all right. so, everyone please celebrate the 20th year for more information on this year's events, please call 415-771- 2376 or log on to triple -- www .. afrosolo.org. the commonwealth club program on the influences of art past, present, and future take place monday, july 29th. for information and your tickets, visit commonwealth club.org. and if you're thinking of growing, starting a business, you should attend the upcoming black expo. can you call (510)473-7759 or visit blackexpo.com. we're going to leave you now with another look at the wonderful afro solo. here's noah griffin. thank you, thomas simpson. >> thank you. >> i'm dr. brenda wade, blessings, everyone. ♪[ music ] >> i remember the day when the team used to play at the old field stadium. and the candlestick park, though the contrast was stark, we still had lots of fun. now we're moved to downtown, and the one thing we found if you build it, they will come. it's no longer a dream, we're a world series team, in this new millennium. zimmerman of all charges. n, . we the jury find george zimmerman not guilty. >> the jury coming up. how a bay area protest against that verdict turned ugly overnight. >> and in the weather department, things are starting out overcast around the bay area. that is going to change. a few changes. we'll have the entire weekend forecast and a workweek forecast in a moment. >> and gas prices are moving up again. why we will see a big increase in the next few weeks. >> it's 8:30, sunday, july 49th. thank you for joining us. >> we have a lot of news to cover in the next hour. the big questions about

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