wedeman in zaporizhzhia. so, ben, i can just imagine how this is all being greeted there in ukraine. what has been the reaction? >> reporter: well, the general feeling is that, kim, this is christmas in june for the ukrainians, keeping in mind that, of course, ukraine is in the very initial stages of its counteroffensive against russian forces. and this could not come at a better time for the ukrainians to have the russian armed forces writ large, its mercenary corps as well as its regular army, seeming to implode at the moment. in fact, what is circulating on the internet here, on social media in ukraine is a picture of president volodymyr zelenskyy, a video of him from when he was an actor popping a beer, sitting down in a comfortable armchair, picking up a bowl of popcorn and watching the tv. and that seems to be the
just going after ron desantis whether we hear about culture wars, also though dre, directly attacking the former president. take a listen. >> top priority is culture wars and not managing spending, creating more opportunities at a localized level, draining the swamp which i was told was going to happen. never happened a bit. you know, former donald trump blew that one. securing the border, former donald trump blew that one. fiscal discipline, former donald trump blew that too. i think there are a lot of things within the mantle of the republican party that we have kind of lost focus on. >> maybe lost focus. but what is fascinating is what we see. donald trump can sit back with the poll numbers that we just saw and let everybody else fight it out for second place. so many republicans are trying to be this more moderate nontrump lane. does anybody have a chance at this point? >> i think they're all just waiting for him, erica, to implode in a way. they're waiting for that moment. they look back at 2008 and they see what happened to hillary clinton, for example. and barack obama came out
and i think it makes me wonder how else is she going to create a lane for herself? because she will not be the only candidate arguing that there needs to be a new generation. take ron desantis, who is a little younger than her, as well. >> michael smerconish, she was not openly critical of trump today, but she did take only veiled swipes that weren't all that veiled. what did you make of that strategy? >> first of all, i thought the rollout went as well as it could have gone. she's obviously smart, she's very good on her feet, and she's got a uniquely american story to tell. but to their points, i don't know where the lane is. i think her fate is going to be determined by the fulton county d.a., the manhattan d.a., and probably jack smith and merrick garland. she needs donald trump and/or ron desantis to implode, because if trump's at 45% and desantis is at 25% to 30%, there's not
he's going to be a very weak speaker. he's going to be beholden to this far right group that is going to be able to yank the speakership from him, with just five votes if they don't get their way. so, you know, this is something that the moderates were worried about initially. and you saw mccarthy trying the hold the line on some of these. but at this point, it looks like he's going to have to give away several stores at this point to appease this group of folks. they are playing this, i think, very, very smartly. they know that this point they are driving the bus. they are the ones that hold the key to kevin mccarthy getting the speakership, and they will be the ones to hold the key to him maintaining the speakership. so, he's going to constantly have to play to this crowd of folks. >> maggie haberman, do you think the former president down in mar-a-lago continues to make calls? or does he wait to see which way the wind blows?
so far, he appeared like he has been loyal. he hasn't floated any trial balloons or anything like that that we can discern. his only way to the speakership is for kevin mccarthy's bid for the speakership to implode. if you are steve scalise, it's not looking bad for that plan. there's nothing wrong with that. right? they have apparently a testy but good relationship. he said, i'm going to support you until the end, until it's your call to bail out. if he bails out, then i think scalise has always been the obvious alternative. >> right. former congressman dent said -- i don't know if it was yesterday or a week ago. i don't remember when it was. let's assume it was yesterday. he thought theoretically it was going to end up with scalise. the republican party is rooted in the south now. they are not in california. beyond the mistrust of kevin mccarthy and all that. geographically, it makes more
>> i don't think voting tonight is productive. let people work more. >> reporter: in a positive sign from mccarthy, some of the opponents came out sounding positive, including scott perry of pennsylvania sounded that -- he said talks had been productive as well as congressman chip roy. they had been asking for more sway over the speakership. some of them had asking to encourage mccarthy's super pac to stay out of certain primaries. they did agree to do that. that may have won some. his path, very narrow. there are at least four republicans who are almost certainly going to vote against him. they absolutely will not vote for kevin mccarthy, including matt gaetz. he can only look forward to lose four republican votes. one more says they will not vote for him, mccarthy cannot get there, which is why these talks are so critical, expected to continue through tonight until
moment. that will be the time in which kevin mccarthy, if he loses more votes, if he does not make progress, will face more questions about his path to the speakership. they hope between now and then a deal can be iced. i asked mccarthy, can you get the deal tomorrow? he said i don't want to put any time frame on it. he said talks have been productive. he is confident they are moving in his direction. >> want to go to melanie who has new information. >> there are some glimmers of hope. we have evidence to back that up. chip roy, who has been in the negotiations with mccarthy allies and mccarthy holdouts, told gop leadership he believes he can bring along ten members as long as the negotiations pan out. he also said he believes there are additional holdouts who might be willing to vote present. of course, that is a big if. they would have to have these negotiations be successful. then all those ten members would have to vote yes. even if that were to happen, if we were to see movement, doing
0 >> i don't think voting tonight is productive. let people work more. >> reporter: in a positive sign from mccarthy, some of the opponents came out sounding positive, including scott perry of pennsylvania sounded that -- he said talks had been productive as well as congressman chip roy. they had been asking for more sway over the speakership. some of them had asking to encourage mccarthy's super pac to stay out of certain primaries. they did agree to do that. that may have won some. his path, very narrow. there are at least four republicans who are almost certainly going to vote against him. they absolutely will not vote for kevin mccarthy, including matt gaetz. he can only look forward to lose four republican votes. one more says they will not vote for him, mccarthy cannot get there, which is why these talks are so critical, expected to continue through tonight until tomorrow. the house reconvenes at that time. >> he had given up a lot to get the votes he has gotten thus far. how much more is there that he can give up on? the super pac is based on the money he poured into candidates the far right are angry that he was supporting. >> reporter: that's the big question. how much more does he give? one thing they asked for is to allow one individual to call for a vote to oust a sitting speaker. kevin mccarthy agreed to five. that's one area that they are pushing for. they want key committee assignments, including on the house rules committee. those are some key issues that they have been negotiating. it sounds like mccarthy is moving in the direction. the concern is if he moves too far, he could lose support from more of the moderate members who do not want him to give in too much to the right wing of the conference. that is the balancing act of kevin mccarthy as he negotiates with them. he has to make sure he doesn't put off any other members. they believe that they are making progress to getting to 218. we will see if they are able to do that. >> let's listen in. the prayer will be offered by chaplain kibin. >> would you pray with me? build this house, lord, lest all who labor therein do so in vain. watch over our gathering, lest we stay awake without purpose. provide wisdom, discernment and forbearance, lest we eat the food of our anxious toil and exhaust ourselves for nothing. you have called us together from the corners of the great nation to uphold a vision founded on our belief in the fundamental rights endowed by you, god, our creator. you have appointed each person here to represent this country's rich diversity of thought and experience, race and creed, that collectively we would serve as a city on a hill, a light to the world, revealing the strength and nobility to be found in our union. remind us that we fulfill this divine mission only when we acknowledge that we are meant to function as one body. nothing ordain can be accomplished without the trust in and respect for each other. you have graced each of us differently with passion and compassion, insight and oversight, voice and vote, that we would use these gifts to build up the larger body which is these united states. deliver us from impudence. free us from fear and control. in our deliberations this night, the light that shines from the dome above us would clearly reflect the commitment we each make to freedom, justice and peace in our world. in the name of our guard dian, guide and stay, we offer our prayer. amen. [ applause ] >> by now, the names of the hardcore so-called never kevin members are well-known. matt gaetz, lauren boebert, andy biggs. you can take a look. if it comes to another vote, which kevin mccarthy does not want there to be tonight, you can tally off the names and see who, if anyone, has changed their mind. if not, we will keep track of it for you. joining us now, not one of the 20. pete sessions who has voted six times for kevin mccarthy. congressman, thanks for joining us. what's the latest you are hearing about what's going to happen? >> we are hearing this as you did, jake. that is that this negotiation, it took place with mr. mccarthy, was really a wide ranging viewpoint, not just on his duties as speaker here, but also his campaign activities as he would engage himself in the money that he collected across the country. also to the rules committee, as you recall, i spent 20 years on the rules committee, six years as its chairman last time we were in the majority. to substantively change those procedures at the rules committee would have wide ranging viewpoints up to a point of orders, votes that would be on the floor, things that would be available to any member, meaning the minority. so it really seems like to me that the discussion is for the house to look more like the senate. as you know, they have -- >> congressman, i'm sorry to interrupt. we need to listen to the clerk. i'm sorry. i will bring you back in a second. >> a sufficient number have been risen. members will record their vote by electronic device. >> vote on whether or not -- i believe this is a vote on whether or not to adjourn and reconvene until noon tomorrow. congressman sessions, let me bring you back. is that your understanding what the vote is, a motion to adjourn? >> yes, sir. >> congressman tom emmer is recommending that house republicans vote to adjourn until noon tomorrow. that's what house republican leadership is recommending. go ahead. >> i would be for that also, as we need that time. what i would say to you is that the appearances of what we are talking about of the rules committee, that the chairman of the rules committee traditionally is literally the most pour powerful chairman in washington, d.c. because they have the ability to self-execute bills. that is, to take bills that -- i'm sorry, amendments. they have the ability to take things that may have been handled in committee and completely change them. when i was chairman of the rules committee and i self-executed, which i did, i had an obligation that i told people i would tell them. it's hard to go through a 100 page bill or a 1,000 page bill if someone doesn't tell you what changed. it's been vetted at the previous committee. with that also the chairman of the rules committee can protect that and not allow it to a point of order, which many times is important not just to change the law but against procedures that necessarily people want to attack it on. it means that the majority cannot always have their way. each of these would be subject to a vote on the floor. this is pretty much the way most statehouses handle their business. it's more bipartisan. it would definitely be designed to have a less powerful not just speaker but a less powerful majority. it would mean the majority would be like the king with no clothes. >> right now, what's going on, for anyone tuning in, is earlier today the house republicans in the house of representatives had a motion to adjourn until 8:00 eastern tonight. they have reconvened. right now, they are voting on a motion to adjourn until noon tomorrow, noon thursday. house republicans, which are the majority, the leadership is recommending the republicans vote to do that. you can see so far, 122 republicans have voted yea to adjourn until noon tomorrow. democrats are generally voting nay on that. congressman sessions, one of the things that's going on here is there has been talk about is there possibly going to be some other house republican whose name gets thrown into the mix who might be able to get to 218? i'm wondering if you have heard anything. i heard from a house republican who told me that there is scuttlebutt about somebody who has previously voted for kevin mccarthy six times, putting forward the name of steve scalise. i'm wondering if you have heard that as that was a possibility for this evening? >> i think the negotiation with mr. mccarthy, if it's not successful, they will look for the next able person who will agree with what mr. mccarthy would not agree with. once again, if mr. mccarthy does not make it, his political operations become inconsequential. what then becomes the same subject would be on mr. scalise. once again, this is a very interesting process to go through that makes our majority less able and adaptive to be onot only to get our work done but be powerful. every day, whoever is the speaker has to recheck with everybody on their vote. that's what's done in the senate in an organization where you may have 50 on one side and 50 of another. a large organization makes it way cumbersome and different. we will see. >> 435 is more difficult than 100. >> yes, sir. >> one of the questions that this house republican with whom i'm communicating is suggesting is that if steve scalise, who is the number two house republican, if his name was about to be nominated on the floor, this is a question i'm asking you now, is republican leader mccarthy's desire to not go forward with any more action tonight and to adjourn until noon tomorrow, is that at least partly to squash any effort to put steve scalise's name on the floor of the house for a vote? >> i don't think there's any question in my mind that mr. mccarthy wants to be in a position of strength. until the bitter end, until he replied back and knew the answer of what was being asked from him, he would not want to move aside. at the point he realizes he may have ended his nose egotiation, would become apparent he would move to mr. scalise. they are very close and very much, i guess, you could say the same in their philosophies. >> when kevin mccarthy says that progress has been made in negotiations -- i certainly find that credible when it comes to some of the rebels, including chip roy of texas, your fellow texan or even congressman bishop. is your understanding that the progress has been sufficient to get him to 218? or is it just peeling off a couple of the 20? as you know, there are at least four, maybe five people that say they will never vote for kevin mccarthy. i find it difficult to imagine any progress being made with them. >> i would suppose that those five or six or seven will not ever vote for mr. mccarthy. the other is based upon pure and simple negotiating skills and tactics and agreements. i would think that it's still -- it doesn't answer the full question. they have to come back tomorrow and figure out what that is. >> congressman sessions, republican of the great state of texas, thank you for joining us. >> you bet. >> appreciate it. jamie, i have been talking to this republican congressman. i would hardly say that i heard anything from congressman sessions that makes me think this other republican congressman is wrong, that there was talk of a mccarthy supporter, a tepid, but a supporter bringing steve scalise's name. one of the reasons mccarthy wants to adjourn right now is they want to squash this effort. it sounds like you are hearing the same. >> exactly. what you heard from congressman sessions there was a very carefully worded but nuanced yes. >> yeah. >> the important thing is, they are moving forward with scalise. it's being floated more and more. i was told the reason that they were coming back at 8:00 tonight, that kevin mccarthy originally wanted to adjourn until tomorrow and that between the democrats and the 20 rebels, those votes weren't there. they wanted to keep the pressure up. that's why we're back at 8:00 now. kevin still wants more time to get there. i'm hearing that -- he keeps saying there's progress. but there's no deal. that says it all. sessions said five, six or seven. >> that's the thing. >> we have been doing the math. >> he can only afford to lose four. i said there are five. sessions upped it to seven who are never going to vote for kevin mccarthy. >> if you look at the list, it makes complete sense. >> look, obviously, if steve scalise is going to end up as the next speaker -- that's a big if. but if that's going to happen, he can't do it in a way that's seen by kevin mccarthy supporters as stabbing him in the back or the front. he needs to let it come to him in a way. >> yeah. so far, i think if that's his plan, his plan has been working fine. >> yep. >> he has always had to appear like he has been loyal. so far, he appeared like he has been loyal. he hasn't floated any trial balloons or anything like that that we can discern. his only way to the speakership is for kevin mccarthy's bid for the speakership to implode. if you are steve scalise, it's not looking bad for that plan. there's nothing wrong with that. right? they have apparently a testy but good relationship. he said, i'm going to support you until the end, until it's your call to bail out. if he bails out, then i think scalise has always been the obvious alternative. >> right. former congressman dent said -- i don't know if it was yesterday or a week ago. i don't remember when it was. let's assume it was yesterday. he thought theoretically it was going to end up with scalise. the republican party is rooted in the south now. they are not in california. beyond the mistrust of kevin mccarthy and all that. geographically, it makes more sense. >> i think that is a part of this that we haven't talked about a lot. the distrust of mccarthy goes deeper beyond just his seeming d duplicitousness. he tried to move himself where the party has gone. i think that that has mostly worked for him. with this group, you know, i don't want to say they are purists, because i think a lot of them it's just about kind of giving a show of conservatism. i think it matters to them that mccarthy really did not come from deep red stock when he first got to congress. i think that's part of it. whether or not scalise is from the south -- he could be from the west. as long as i think his ideology is more deeply rooted in con sfsh conservatism. i think he's not named kevin mccarthy. if his name came up, members would vote for him because it's an easy way to get rid of mccarthy and have another candidate -- i don't think scalise is going to have an easier time. but he is more -- >> the fact -- you talk to house republicans. they really value the talking point that he was shot as a badge of credibility for scalise. >> against this idea of democratic extremism. they want to have this argument that the extremism is on both sides. that incident with scalise is huge. >> we should be careful not to poe l politicize it too much. he handled that with such grit and such grace in the aftermath. i think he earned a lot of respect from people on both sides of the aisle. >> he almost died. >> i covered that closely when it actually happened. i think -- i developed a relationship with scalise in covering him through that prism. i think there are other people who he wouldn't have necessarily built strong relationships with if he hadn't gone through that. we should consider that. i think the smart political play for scalise also is to sit and wait in the wings. if he angers mccarthy's supporters -- there are a bunch of them. they are standing by him. those are the people he would need. he needs this to happen to him. there's a lit irony in this. i doubt we have a picture of this that we can show our audience. one of the things being passed around on the internet is the cover of kevin mccarthy's book "young guns" where he stands next to paul ryan and eric canter. he was the first to fall over the immigration issue as this divide in the republican party just absolutely exploded. then paul ryan became speaker. now has become a pariah to this wing of the party. now here's kevin mccarthy was standing with them at the beginning of his career. he tried to reinvent himself. they still think that he is the guy on the cover of that book. >> just to make sure people understand, or people notice, that's kevin mccarthy there on the left side of your screen as republicans vote to adjourn until noon tomorrow. da dana bash, kevin mccarthy has gone from smylilesmiling, happy warrior, to very glum expressions on his face. >> yeah. to touch on what you were asking congressman sessions about, which is the notion of why we're seeing this motion to adjourn right now, there's no question that it is because kevin mccarthy doesn't want another embarrassing vote, because if they don't adjourn, which might happen, there will be another vote. it is also because there are -- there are movements to push somebody else. maybe it's scalise. maybe it's another potential candidate for speaker. while that is happening, we don't know how real it is, but there are talks going on behind the scenes. chip roy even, who was on with you, jake, yesterday, i believe, who is one of those holdouts is saying that they are so constructive, he might be able to get ten people to come on board. we have all become mathematicians in the last two days. that's not enough. if you have 20 and then he gets 10, you still -- he needs to convince six other people. >> yeah. >> these talks are real. the question is whether they are enough to get mccarthy over the edge. it's hard to see the math. >> it's hard to see the math. anderson? >> jake, thanks very much. the house vote to adjourn until noon tomorrow, we are waiting on that. joining us now, former pennsylvania republican congressman charlie dent and maggie haverman. do you think more time will help mccarthy? >> i think we gotta see if what jake tapper and his panel were talking about happens tonight. is the scalise play finally going to be introduced tonight? does it make any difference with those hardliners? is this an opening gambit of the scalise bid? will we see a collapse of mccarthy's vote total? he did not want this to happen tonight. we will see what happens with the adjournment, whether or not they are able to get it or not. we see where the democrats are. we see what republicans are doing. >> let's listen. there is some confusion. congressman dent, explain what's going on. >> there's a motion to adjourn. it looks like the republicans will prevail. there were four republican no votes. i think they need one more republican nay vote. if you are confused at home, i think there's many people confused on the floor of congress as well. particularly even the clerk right now. seems somewhat baffled by what is going on. see if there's more clarity. she hasn't turned her microphone on. congressman dent, is this normal? >> no, it's not. what happened is the cheief clek closed out the vote. some were upset she closed it sooner than they liked. they were hoping people would change their votes. if one more republican were to become a no vote, then 214 to 214 would be a tie. it wouldn't pass. it appears republicans are going to prevail on the motion to adjourn at 216 to 213 right now. there might be a few outstanding votes. you can see there's a few people -- five people have not voted. maybe they are waiting for those five to show up. that could be what's happening right now. i think the commotion was that the chief clerk was shutting down the roll call sooner than the democrats would have liked. that's why there's some commotion. she reopened the vote. so they're still voting, waiting for those four people, assuming they are around the capitol. >> they are having mike issues. congressman dent, how does mccarthy then convince enough of the holdouts to change their votes? >> it appears he might be making progress based on what we are hearing. he has to move more votes. >> let's listen. >> on this vote, yea are -- on this vote the yea are 216. the nay are 214. accordingly, the motion is adopted. accordingly, the house stands adjourned until noon tomorrow. >> they adjourn until noon tomorrow. this begins again at noon. sorry, charlie, i interrupted you. what does the speaker do now? >> i think -- >> or want to be speaker. >> what kevin mccarthy is going to do is they will go into sessions and try to make concessions. you hear some people say that they maybe have moved a few people. they have to move a lot of people. by my count, they need 16, maybe 17 since sparks is a present vote, they need her back. let's say they move ten people. they still have six or seven that they need. they can only lose four votes. it seems to me they still aren't near the number that they need. if they lose the vote by five or ten, it doesn't matter. they lose in either case. it sounds like they are making progress. it sounds like chip roy and maybe a few others are coming mccarthy's way. we will see. we don't know. i don't know if there's any agreement. they haven't announced it publically. they are negotiating. we will see how far they get between now and noon tomorrow. >> i want to go to manu. >> we get the name of the four republicans voting against, who did vote against this motion to adjourn until noon tomorrow. that includes congressman andy biggs, lauren boebert, matt gaetz and elijah crane. one of the 20 voting against kevin mccarthy. four of the opponents of mccarthy voted against adjourning. it's unclear where some of the other opponents are. it's unclear if good missed the vote. we will get a sense of what happened. that gives you some idea of where things are. the hope among kevin mccarthy is that tomorrow could be the decisive day. they feel momentum finally shifting in their direction. they believe that congressman chip roy has been essential -- who has been opposed to him for all of these ballots so far, now is signaling potentially getting behind him after a number of concessions mccarthy made further in his direction. i talked to mike cloud, a texas republican, someone who has opposed kevin mccarthy through the six ballots. he told me he is encouraged by the direction of the talks. scott perry, a pennsylvania republican, leader of the house freedom caucus, someone who opposed kevin mccarthy, also sounding positive. saying talks had been encouraging so far. still, very little margin for error for mccarthy. they barely got the votes to simply adjourn until tomorrow let alone to elect the next speaker. still significant work for mccarthy. noon tomorrow will be a key moment. that will be the time in which kevin mccarthy, if he loses more votes, if he does not make progress, will face more questions about his path to the speakership. they hope between now and then a deal can be iced. i asked mccarthy, can you get the deal tomorrow? he said i don't want to put any time frame on it. he said talks have been productive. he is confident they are moving in his direction. >> want to go to melanie who has new information. >> there are some glimmers of hope. we have evidence to back that up. chip roy, who has been in the negotiations with mccarthy allies and mccarthy holdouts, told gop leadership he believes he can bring along ten members as long as the negotiations pan out. he also said he believes there are additional holdouts who might be willing to vote present. of course, that is a big if. they would have to have these negotiations be successful. then all those ten members would have to vote yes. even if that were to happen, if we were to see movement, doing the math, that doesn't get mccarthy to 218. he would have a lot of work to do. there's a lot of reason for optimism. we did see one breakthrough in the last hour or so. a mccarthy aligned pac agreed to not play in primaries in safe districts. that's something that conservatives have been asking for. it's a big deal. mccarthy resisted up until now. obviously, the pac made this deal on its own. mccarthy can't control spending decisions made by the pac. it had his blessing. conservatives see this as a big win for them. they rexare excited about this. jim jordan does think this will move some votes. there's more work to do. >> no doubt about it. maggie, i want to go to you. what's interesting about the backdrop of this is you have the former president, donald trump, making a public endorsement of mccarthy. what he doesn't support is allowing this chaos to continue. that doesn't seem to have changed any minds. in fact, lauren boebert, who has been down to mar-a-lago and is a creation of trump world in many regards dissed him, saying he has it wrong. >> that's right. there's an element of a fear factor that's not present right now. it's worth recalling that this energy, this house freedom caucus energy, grows out of the tea party, which pre-dates donald trump. donald trump seized on it and capitalized on it and fuelled it and benefitted from it and found common cause with these folks. he didn't create this kind of energy in the house. i think that he believes he did. i think he believes these are people who like him and will do whatever he wants. they're not seeing it that way right now. if anything, mccarthy lost one vote after trump reissued his support this morning. if mccarthy ends up getting a deal and becomes the speaker, trump will claim credit. he will say he was there all along. if mccarthy loses support, trump will support whoever looks like will be the winner, because that's how trump behaves. he goes where he sees the wind blowing. this says more about mccarthy than trump what's happening in the house right now. it's not a good sign for trump. appears weak. he didn't have to. he jumped into this. >> he appears just isolated in a beach resort, golf club in mar-a-lago. he is not part of this at all. >> no. he is part of it to the extent he has been making calls. my colleagues and i reported a couple of weeks ago that he was making whip calls on mccarthy's behalf. >> lauren boebert said she got a call. >> he was surprised that he was finding that he wasn't actually getting anywhere with folks. initially, he wasn't doing that hard a sell. he got there and did do a stronger push on mccarthy's behalf. he has been running some -- a campaign that's looked nothing like anything we have seen him do before. he announced his candidacy in november right after a midterms that a disappointment for republicans even whethern they the house. they are making nancy pelosi the person that republicans reviled over the course of the last more than a decade. they are highlighting why she was able to get stuff done. trump makes everything about himself. to your point, he has been doing nothing. he is a diminished presence. he is the only declared republican presidential candidate right now. we can't say he is off the stage entirely. he is not commanding at all the way we have been used to in republican politics over the last six years. >> it's fascinating to see the winds of change. they're not blowing in the direction of the swamp of ma mar-a-lago. >> lauren boebert there getting on the floor of the house and name checking donald trump and saying, you are wrong to back kevin mccarthy, you should actually be asking him to withdraw from the race was a real movement. a real moment i think for his movement and a sign it's diminished a bit. i also think though that he isn't really pressing on them as much as he could. he is not threatening them. he is not saying, i will put somebody up against you, for instance, a primary challenger, for instance. he isn't going that far. the fact that he can't even move lauren boebert at this point is a sign of his diminishment. i think we should highlight in some ways kevin mccarthy had a better day today than he did yesterday. there are some signs that he is being able to peel some of the folks away. not the never kevin core, which is five, six, seven people, which would still be enough to block him. the fact that they were able to get this adjournment tonight was a good sign for kevin mccarthy. we will see what happens overnight with these discussions with chip roy. he said he can bring maybe ten folks along. you still have seven, eight people, ten other people or so that they have to talk to to see if he can seal this deal. >> jake, a lot of tired people on capitol hill today eager to go home. >> a lot of very, very tired people, no question. i do want to go to manu, who i heard just talk to the man of the hour, republican leader kevin mccarthy. manu, what i'm hearing from the would-be speaker's team is that real progress is being made. >> reporter: that's how he feels. he has been sounding upbeat. even as he gone down vote after vote after vote. he has been upbeat. this time, no different. the mood has changed in mccarthy's camp. they don't have the votes yet. he acknowledges that. he said he does not have a deal yet. he does believe there has been movement. he pointed to the deal that his outside group cut with another conservative group, the club for growth, to essentially allow his super pac does not engage in competitive, open primary season. that's a lot of words for saying that he is moving in the direction that conservatives want. he said that that was a big development. he wouldn't get into other details about what they may have agreed to. i asked him whether they agreed to the idea of what's known on capitol hill as motion to vacate, which is to eject a sitting speaker from his position if one member calls for such a vote. they would have to get a majority of the house to get that. that's what conservatives have been demanding. he would not say if he has come to their position on that issue or other issues such as giving them key committee assignments. he did indicate that he is having productive discussions. he said they will have more discussions from tonight and until tomorrow at noon. he didn't predict he would have the votes by tomorrow at noon. that is going to be a critical moment. also questions, what does byron donalds do, the florida republican, the person nominated to run, the person siphoning off the 20 votes all day today, will he continue to be a candidate tomorrow? i asked mccarthy if he has asked donalds to drop out of the race. he said, no, he hasn't. donalds told me that he planned to talk to mccarthy today. that discussion will be critical to ultimately getting a resolution. mccarthy knows he has no margin for error here. they believe at the moment things are moving in their direction after days of losing vote after vote after vote. they believe they could potentially get there as soon as tomorrow. >> manu, thank you so much. let's dissect, dana bash, i will start with you, this -- it sounds as obscure but it's important. there's supposedly an independent leadership pac that kevin mccarthy endorsed. there's no coordination. >> mccarthy people work there. >> this independent leadership pac goes out there and gives money to incumbent republicans in races. what the rebels and the club for growth, which is a koch brothers organization that's maga right now, what they wanted is a pledge from the mccarthy-backed super pac, not only should you -- you can back incumbent republicans, but if there's an open seat in a republican district, don't play at all. why? tell me why. >> because they feel that they are at a disadvantage with money and in every other way politically in these campaigns when they are up against a -- from their point of view, an establishment group that has a ton of money and has a ton of influence. when i use the pronounce they, i'm talking about like in many of the cases, like-minded republican candidates, like-minded to the boeberts of the world. >> maga caucus. >> it's maga plus plus. i don't know -- we have to come up with a new name. >> they call themselves ultra. >> give joe biden credit for mega maga. >> he did ultra maga. >> that's one of the reasons. >> they want more mega maga in congress. they don't want kevin mccarthy going in there and picking a more establishment -- >> if you take a step back and look at the makeup of the house, the democrats and the republicans, they have very gerrymandered very solidly blue, solidly red districts for the most part. in these red districts, whoever wins the primary wins the seat. so that's why who plays in these primaries is the ball game for these republicans. you are exactly right, they want to have more like-minded republicans who end up in congress. this is -- >> mccarthy said uncle. >> yes, but why are we -- why did we get here now after six of the ballots? why is this something he hasn't caved on before? that's because this also matters in open swing seats. right? there's a republican -- the republicans are trying to get the majority. that's what kevin mccarthy has spent his entire career focusing on. >> this pledge is just on safe republican seats. am i wrong? >> i saw the word safe. >> what does that mean? >> there aren't that many swing seats left. >> there are not. either way, they have come to focus on -- this has been the central grievance of a lot of the anti-mccarthyites, that the establishment comes in and crushes their candidacies before they have a chance to get off the ground. a couple of them have made them into congress anyway, like bob good. it's why he is angry at kevin mccarthy. >> that was a convention in virginia. >> it's another thing but -- >> this is part two of this wing of the republican party taking completely different lessons away from the party's electoral losses of 2022 and 2020 and 2018. >> the wave that was a trickle. >> the wave that was a trickle. they are interpreting the same facts in radically different ways. it's not totally different from what you might see at times on the left when maybe the progressives will say, well, if we just had more of us, we would be better off, the american people would support us. i think that's where some of these ultra conservative mega maga folks feel. the problem if you are kevin mccarthy, even in a safe republican seat, what happened in this last sickle, when you have crazies running for congress, it affects the entire brand. it infects the entire atmosphere of an election cycle. democrats in this past cycle successfully ran on republicans being too extreme. it matters, whether it's a deep red state, red district or a swing district, the candidates do matter, even beyond the four corners of that district. >> i think you are correct about that. i agree with this analysis. the thing that drives me crazy is that there is this widespread myth among many of my conservative brethren that being electable makes you more moderate. that being electable makes you part of the establishment. there is no frickin establishment. if there was an establishment, this wouldn't be happening. there's mitch mcconnell. that's about it. donald trump is the establishment of the republican party to the extent there's an establishment. these guys, they have this fantasy that the nelson rockefellers of the world are not only still alive but running everything. if kevin mccarthy -- i'm a huge critic of and is not reliable and i understand why conservatives are -- dislike him and why moderates dislike him. but kevin mccarthy would be by almost any objective measure one of the two or three most conservative republican speakers in u.s. history. at least for the last 100 years. paul ryan was the most conservative. this idea that being part of the establishment makes you a loser is this fantasy that these guys are getting high on on their own farts and fox green rooms. it's nonsense. this is how you turn what should be a majority party into a minority party. >> i think that's a first. >> i'm not going to ask you which part. >> kevin mccarthy, to your point, would also be speaker at this point and wouldn't have -- be facing a seventh ballot. i would like to go back to the prayer that started this evening. it was very specific. it began, lest we stay awake without purpose. >> right. i saw some democrats giggling about that. >> work together, deliver us from intransigence. >> i think the point is salient. the idea that -- the idea that more mega maga candidates is the solution is an interesting one. and also it is so short-sighted of kevin mccarthy to give in on this deal. even though also, by the way, this is an independent super pac. there's not supposed to be coordination. but nobody cares because nobody at the federal election commission enforces that law. >> getting to this point about not learning lessons from 2022, if mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy were allowed to sit in a room and figure out who the candidate -- the gop candidate should be in the last election, mitch mcconnell would be the majority leader in the senate. kevin mccarthy could write off a lot of these no votes because he would have a big enough majority. the republican party has determined -- i think one of the best ways to understand american politics is to think, these parties are doing some of the things they're doing because they are determined to be minority parties. they would rather be pure and raise money off of their purity than compromise by actually putting competitive candidates in swing and competitive districts. the gop is really ground down into this. >> raising money, that part of your sentence, is key. there are -- there are institutions on both sides of the aisle. they are more vfervent on the republican side that exist for one reason, and one reason only. to cause problems, to throw bombs and to raise money off of it. it's the small donors -- small dollar donors and that ends up being the base and the fringes. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. >> you said this last night. this stopped being about ideology a long, long time ago. chip roy, we could explain, what does chip roy want from this process? he has these demands. there are probably people that would follow him who agree. like matt gaetz isn't in this because he cares about some sort of policy. that's what this used to be about. that's what this split started off as years ago. with the rise of donald trump, all of a sudden you have members who saw what trump did. he became a celebrity. they think they can do it, too. that's all they care about. >> one other note i want to make, because we're talking about the progressive wing of the party, the mega maga wing of the party. there's all this talk in the last couple days of are the democrats going to do anything to help kevin mccarthy? is there some sort of compromise candidate who governs from the center? are the democrats going to do it? congressman paul gosar, the white supremacist adjacent republican from arizona, we saw him talking on the floor of the house with congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez which was quite a sight. what i'm told he was asking about is that mccarthy forces were telling the rebels -- he is a rebel -- the democrats are going to vote present so as to bring down the threshold so mccarthy can win. he wanted to know if that was true. why would democrats do anything to help, a, they love this, they are literally eating popcorn and watching this. b, all of these rule changes that the republican conservatives are demanding, the progressives want, too. they also want the process liberalized. they also want an easier way to strip things out of bills and amend it and have an open debate. >> she said something like, okay, if you give me a committee chairmanship. can you imagine him saying, sure, alexandria ocasio-cortez, you can do that. >> go right ahead. >> this is as a point of contrast. it's important to note the progressive wing of the democrats party is incredibly fervent. what they have demonstrated in the last two years is a willingness to do what the maga wing of the republican party is not willing to do, which is to play with the team. notch some wins. that has been, i think, one of the most important developments in the last couple of years. it didn't have to be that way. they were fully expecting nancy pelosi's five seat margin back in 2020 to end in disaster. it didn't. they all understood the politics of the situation and knew that being on board with the rest of the team would give them more benefits. the republicans are not -- they are not going that route. i don't think that's going to change. >> it's not just about republicans, anderson. there's something specific to kevin mccarthy as a figure, as a singular figure, versus a nancy pelosi. i don't know if there's a nancy pelosi of the right, of the republican party. it certainly isn't kevin mccarthy. by that i mean, somebody who can unify the party and be feared. >> yeah. nancy pelosi certainly was feared and was able to instill fear in others and get results based on that. i want to check in with melanie who is getting more information about who kevin mccarthy was meeting with. what do we know? >> in addition to the negotiations involving chip roy and some of mccarthy's allies, i'm told kevin mccarthy has met with a group of freshmen republicans who voted against him. during this meeting, just reiterated some of the promises he made and walked through some of the concessions in greater detail. really, it was an opportunity for face time with the freshmen. they have not had the opportunity to be in negotiations with kevin mccarthy like other members have. a lot of the notegotiations wer taking place prior to now, especially in the last few weeks. for mccarthy, it was another opportunity to try to win over some of the holdouts. it offers a window into mccarthy's thinking and into his strategy right now. he really feels determined. he is hunkered down. he is trying to meet with as many people as possible. he also knows it's going to take every single vote he can get. he has no margin for error. it is going to come down to getting so, it is going to come down to getting to know each and every member, what is it going to take for them to vote for him or against him. this is a sign for mccarthy, things could be moving in the right direction for him. >> i would assume -- does he stay on capitol hill late into the night? does he work the phone? what are the logistics? do we know? >> if last night is any indication, they'll probably be here late. they've already adjourned. there probably will be a mix of meetings and phone calls and negotiations are going to continue. they don't have that much time. they're going to adjourn again tomorrow at noon. they are hoping to at that point be able to vote and at least show some progress. even if kevin mccarthy can't get there on the next ballot tomorrow, for mccarthy, it is about showing the momentum. chip roy says he believes if these negotiations pan out, that he can bring along ten members. so, that would really cut down the opposition. it would be a huge sign of momentum for kevin mccarthy. it would stave off potentially people stepping in or trying to encourage kevin mccarthy to drop out. he really needs this. the next 24 hours are going to be critical. >> melanie zanona, hope you get some sleep tonight. congressman, you have -- you've been watching this along with all of us. what needs to happen in these hours tonight and before the congress starts back in this session tomorrow? >> let me first say, anderson, i am stunned by this -- stunned by this concession on the super pac not getting involved in open primary races and supposedly safe seats. you and i were sitting there listening for two days to people talking about opening up the process on the florida house of representatives, 72 hour rules, more transparency. and what was the deal? don't get involved. they don't want kevin mccarthy's su superpac to get involved in primaries. what does that have to do with the rules? by not getting involved in primaries, you'll elect more of these ultra-maga candidates who will be part of that group who don't want to govern. you'll just grow that group of 20 people. i think that's a terrible concession to make, and frankly it has nothing to do with these supposed high-minded rules change this chaos caucus is demanding. this is just an outright naked political demand. >> that's something that chip roy in particular has been focusing on, saying he's very interested in these rules changes. do you believe him? >> it sounds to me like, oh, great, the super pac is not going to try to stop more of our ultra maga guys who have a hard time winning general elections. they don't want mccarthy to back more establishments for candidates, people who are more electable. they want more far right candidates to get nominated and hopefully elected. and they'll become part of this group dhaunt want to govern. this is stunning. this is kevin mccarthy's challenge. he has a big group of people here who do onot want to govern. you're going to grow that group with that concession. but again it has nothing to do with these rules changes we've been hearing about the last few days. >> northit was only, like, $350 million, and that's one of the reasons why some of these folks are so mad at him. and in a letter a couple days ago, that's what they highlighted as something he wasn't willing to concede, wasn't willing to concede that he was not going to have the super pac play in these primaries. so, this is certainly a victory for their side. you know, as much as we may be able to see mccarthy doing better over the next hours and votes, it's also true that the 20 are going to be doing better too. they are going to be getting more and more concessions, growing their power, eventually probably growing their ranks in the caucus as well. so, you know, even if mccarthy ends up winning, the house freedom caucus is going to win as well. he's going to be a very weak speaker. he's going to be beholden to this far right group that is going to be able to yank the speakership from him, with just five votes if they don't get their way. so, you know, this is something that the moderates were worried about initially. and you saw mccarthy trying the hold the line on some of these. but at this point, it looks like he's going to have to give away several stores at this point to appease this group of folks. they are playing this, i think, very, very smartly. they know that this point they are driving the bus. they are the ones that hold the key to kevin mccarthy getting the speakership, and they will be the ones to hold the key to him maintaining the speakership. so, he's going to constantly have to play to this crowd of folks. >> maggie haberman, do you think the former president down in mar-a-lago continues to make calls? or does he wait to see which way the wind blows? >> i think he's in a lot of touch with mccarthy. there's a lot of overlap between trump's advisers and mccarthy's advisers. it's important to note there's a concerted activity between both groups. i think trump is going to make some calls to people he thinks are not going to burn him. i think he's going to pressure certain people he thinks are soft. i don't think that would be someone trump would call, although trump did call him previously to try to push him. i think trump is going to watch to see how this plays out. i think trump got dragged into this publicly in the last day beyond what he intended. he picked up a cell phone when a reporter called, at least one, possibly two, and he was forced to issue a statement. he likes to have a foot in every camp, and he likes to be able to say, look, that's really where i was. there are a lot of members who are opposed to mccarthy who are interpreting what trump said as if it's mealing house. they're looking at the endorsement as if it's not full throated. trump is going to, i think, recalibrate, if it looks like this is going south. but everybody around trump continues to insist they think mccarthy will get there. >> maggie haberman, north korea ma malik henderson, thank you. our news continues in just a moment. a lot more news ahead. advertis. at mint we're not into wasting money. so we boughtht this spiffy stock footage for $500. ouour footage also came with another hand, so we can let you know if you switch to mint, you'll get three months free on all of our plans. even unlimited. feels like that deserves an exclamation point. whoa. easy, easy.
party he has absolutely dominated, you would have assumed other candidates would have backed away by now. not one of them did. and they were all standing there saying, here i am as a possible alternative. that's what is most striking about it. i still think donald trump has to consider the odds on favorite but he's not the prohibited favorite. this was on display this weekend. >> here's what half post is saying. i wonder steve, charles -- will bide his time while he waits for trump to implode. that's ron desantis biding his time for the former president to implode. what do you make of that? >> if that's what the strategy is, it's a smart strategy. right now, donald trump is standing alone. he has the focus and the spotlight and the target on his back. given the bed reviews from his announcement on monday, donald trump's normal practice is to try to come up with something outrageous to keep the spotlight on him. and the more outrageous he is
beaten by liz truss just weeks ago, he could replace her as soon as tomorrow. declaring his candidacy today, he wrote: he also felt the need to say: the guaranteed support for him continues to up. what we can't do is have him in as prime minister to implode, taking down the whole government with him, and we just can't do that again. mr baker had backed the former home secretary suella braverman for the job in the summer. today, she backed rishi sunak too, saying: i have backed boris from the start, but we are in dire straits now, we need unity, stability and efficiency.