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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:24:00

originally share with detectives. he was not telling the police the entire truth, but he is making it as good for himself. when he was imprisoned he was not doing that he was sort of bragging. walter ogrod lawyer said that the confessions, which did not match each other, words suspicious. when you have two opposing versions, especially from a jailhouse snitch which just happens to come out of nowhere. walter s lawyers theory was that, because the stories of the trials are so diametrically opposed, that is reasonable doubt. but it did not work it found it jury the fact jury found him guilty, and sentenced to death. it took eight years and two juries to commit walter ogrod of murder. he is an animal. he has got no remorse for what he is done at all. i am glad you will be in jail with and he will not get out to hurt somebody else. at last the say he s had the verdict that they had hope for. he was responsible, all that mattered was that they never get the opportunity to

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:21:00

there is no justice in a murder. there is no justice. you re never gonna find justice, ever. walter ogrod life does not equal barbara jean s life. but no one was prepared for what happened after the jury announced that it reached a verdict. journalist tom lowenstein, wasn t in the courtroom. but says that the transcript reads like a hollywood drama. the jury came in, and they sat down. the question still remains, what was the the jury had voted unanimously and signed the verdict form, not guilty. walter ogrod was moments away from going home. and the foreman stood up and said, you know, we reached a verdict and literally opened his mouth to start reading it when one jurors said i don t know how i feel about this. then, that juror made a jaw-dropping announcement. he changed his mind. you said that he could not

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:36:00

but only one of them testified. prosecutors told him that they had been using hall too much. now, all these years later, tom was convinced that ogrod had been railroaded by both police and prosecutors, which made what he had to do next especially difficult. you took your suspicions to barbara jean horn family. from the beginning, that was always looming for me. if i ve shown up at my door ask my dad, i will slam the door and told him to get lost. but sharon in john agreed to hear him out. john and i met with him, and he told us a lot of the different things that we re not right, he felt. he claims that walter s innocent and that he got a bad deal, and the police did it on purpose, it was accidental, that they coerced him, whatever. i never have wavered on walter s guilt. never. tom had not convinced the

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:58:00

livid. you ve got to understand, this guy is getting out and you are going to kill him before he gets out. get him treated. you are visibly angry now. i was visibly angry then, for and i am still angry now. as the weeks passed, from ogrod began to recover, called me from prison. my lungs felt like on june 5th, 2020, after 28 years behind bars walter ogrod finally had his day in court after an extraordinary effort from the da s office. his legal team and tom lowenstein he heard the de words he longed for. the judge vacated his conviction. his friends and family gathered in a parking lot near the prison. walter! i was sitting there like, pinch me, is this really happening?

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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:34:00

hall whose nickname was because he had heard more confessions than a priest. john hall was a criminal who had been used as a witness by prosecutors, often hicks receiving leniency in exchange for us testimony. he just had this knack for, where the da did not have enough evidence. and somehow, miraculously every time that happened, john produced a confession from that person and he would give them convictions. tom called hall s house, and his wife answered. and i thought, she is not going to talk to me, right? wrong, not only did she talk, she could not have been more blunt. i said, i m calling about john hall. and she said, yeah he lied in 20 or 30 cases. i said do you think he lied about ogrod and she said yeah. i said how do you know, and she said because i helped him. she said he had astonishing to seems down to a science. it didn t bother john at all. shortly before ogrod second trial, hallways moved the same cell block. at the time, he was facing a 50 year senten

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