americans gear up for their thanksgiving travel. nbc meteorologist bill karins has been watching that for us. good morning, bill. >> a lot of people traveling and airport problems and everyone that's dealt with the storm in the west, you know what's heading to the east. the winds and the rain and snow and ice. in the dallas-fort worth area, hundreds of flights canceled at dfw, we're watching the sleet and snow spreading up into areas of oklahoma and arkansas, they're next, we're at 33 in dallas and the roads are okay, but above the roads, up in the trees we're starting to get power outages, because of the ice in the trees. as far as the rest of the travel goes, houston airport, heavy delays with rain, new orleans, a little later, it looks like atlanta will be okay today. as we go into tuesday, that's when the heavy rain will be over the top of atlanta, possibly significant delays, charlotte, raleigh. late in the day up towards d.c. and for wednesday, the really busy travel day, snow for areas like buffalo and pittsburgh and you have to boston, travel trouble and windy conditions, for people traveling across the country, it willing be a difficult traveling. >> the system that we're talking about has turned deadly, this morning at least 13 people are confirmed killed by the storms, nbc's miguel almaguer brings us up to date. in the southwest, wicked weather that's dangerous and on the move. >> the powerful storm blanketing several states, with snow, ice and high winds. in texas, icy roads turned dallas into a skating rink, three killed here, 13 across the region. at dfw, more than 300 flights canceled. >> after hundreds of crashes to the west, dallas was ready as the storm moved in. 30 trucks dumped sand on city streets. >> reporter: the commute in oklahoma just as treacherous. too many spinouts and rollovers to tally. outside oklahoma city, 13 inches and counting. >> oh, it's good, oh, yeah. >> reporter: in new mexico, frigid temperatures snapped power lines. the frozen interstate a standstill as 39 million americans are set to travel for the thanksgiving holiday. >> hard. keep control of your car, especially if like you go under the bridges and stuff, it whips you. >> reporter: this nordic outbreak first claiming lives on thursday, hammered california with whipping winds. the weather still fanning a blaze north of san francisco. from fire in california to snow in arizona -- >> this is a weird storm. nobody has been able to get a handle on it. >> reporter: even in the nevada desert, 15 inches of powder. >> we've had almost as much water content out of this one storm as we've had most of the season last winter. >> reporter: the arctic blast is punishing the texas panhandle, and it appears the east coast is next. miguel almageur, nbc news, los angeles. to an amtrak train derailment that left 00 passengers stranded overnight in south carolina. the new york-bound train derailed causing several cars to slip off the tracks and injure several passengers, luck request for the passengers, the train had full power and heat, shielding them from the 20-degree weather outside. buses are en route to transfer passengers to another rail. living abroad now to iran where an historic nuclear deal is done. the international reaction coming swift and mixed. with america's closest mideast ally israel calling it an historic mistake, here at home, leading members of congress are cautious but accepting. nbc's ahman mohyeldin. good morning. this deal follows years of behind-the-scenes diplomatic work. the question might be what are the next steps that are so crucial in this? >> well the short answer to that is compliance and enforcement. on the one hand you have this agreement that's spells out what is expected to happen the in the next six months, and a big component of that involves inspections. daily inspections for the nuclear facilities and more important for the iranian government, to suspend enrichment of some of the uranium it hasnd to destroy stockpiles of others. and it calls for the international community to unfreeze $4 billion to the iranian government and ease restrictions to some of the key industries that could generate revenue for the economy of that country. those are the questions. the mechanics of how that's going to unfold in the next day remains somewhat unclear. but more prince george, the serious negotiations to try and reach a comprehensive dealing to solve this nuclear crisis for once and for all. those negotiations are expected to get under way. they're working under a timeline of six months, but that's going to be the most serious component that people are going to be watching closely. >> thank you. more fans falling at stadiums on sunday. two people were injured. in baltimore m & t bank stadium, a 43-year-old man suffered severe head injuries. during the ravens/jets game. he was taken to the shock trauma center. how he fell is still unknown. and at the oakland coliseum during the raiders/titans game, a woman fell 45 feet from the upper deck. her fall was broken by a man who tried to catch her. a county sheriff's official said the man saved her from certain death. both were injured and taken to a nearby hospital. witnesses say the woman jumped. a mailman was shot and killed while on his route over the weekend. the murder investigation also continues found that a $100,000 award for information is being offered. the victim is 26-year-old tyson jerome barnett, a letter carrier at the post office. police found him dead at the scene in suburban washington, d.c. he had apparently been shot several times. the post office reminding those responsible that attempting to kill or kill a postal worker is punishable by the death penalty. >> and to bill cairns, the weather happening in the northeast and the west, kind of the opposite. >> they're in the wake of the big storm that's kicking across the deep south it produced just amazing rainfall statistics there. in arizona we picked up a little over two and a half inches of rain in phoenix, that's unheard of in the desert. they get that in half the year. it's 43 in vegas this morning, it feels like winter and l.a. is down to 48, along with phoenix at 48. cold in medford at 27, a winter coast morning in pretty much all areas of the west. high pressure is going to protect the west for the next three days, we're going to be looking at temperatures moderating over the next three days, chillingy mornings and the afternoons with sunshine. not a bad afternoon, l.a., one of the warmer spots in the entire country at 72 degrees. 60 in vegas, cooler in phoenix at 66 degrees and as i mentioned, it looks quiet through the busy travel period. that's your national and pasco, washington, a high of 38. >> there's one section of the country that won't have major airport delays. >> for now, we'll see how it goes throughout the day. some black widow spiders found on grapes right here in the united states. we're going to tell you where. plus, the story of a shark choking on a moose rescued by two men. >> what? >> i kid you not. it's a real story. and a sunday night football thriller. manning versus brady and a comeback for the ages. you're watching "early today." good morning. and welcome back. take a look at the moment a bridge is imploded in rio de janeiro, brazil. more than a ton of explosives collapsed 3,400 feet of concrete in just about five seconds. first bananas, now grapes, shoppers with america's most venomous spider black widow recently in their produce. it's reportedly happened in pennsylvania, michigan, missouri and minnesota. similar cases were reported last year. national geographic saying black widow venom can be 200 teams stronger than rattlesnakes. a new york city man is arrested and charged with a hate crime in a possible knockout death. police are investigating incidents in new jersey, pennsylvania and washington, d.c. the two deaths have been linked to the startling trend. of randomly challenging players to knock out a person with one punch. in greenland, two men rescued a shark. two men rescue a shark who really did bite off more than it could chew and nearly choked to death on a moose. but the men reportedly pulled out the carcass. clifford harvey tweeted these photos of the whale's heros bringing it back to sea. and macklemore commented on the trayvon martin case as he accepts his award at the american music awards. he won favorite hip hop rap artist. he accepted via florida where martin was shot and killed. >> i want to acknowledge trayvon martin and the hundreds and hundreds of kids each year that are dieing due to racial profiling. and the violence that follows it. and now for business, cnbc's kayla tausche. >> big banks are reportedly warning they could start charging deposit fees if the fed cuts the interest rate for holding more than $2 trillion in reserves, one option the fed is considering when it starts to taper the massive buying program that helps keep interest rates low. microsoft said it sold more than one million xbox 1 consoles on friday. sony's playstation 4 hit stores the previous week and yahoo may name a deal naming katie couric its global news anchor. hosting a high-profile online video show. the stories we'll be keeping our eye on rich for now, back to you. just ahead, a jam-packed monday morning, sports to kick offer week. plus the best damn band in the world marches to a whole different level. a beautiful sunrise in washington, d.c., let's get you to the latest in sports. you don't hear this very often, the patriots shut out by the broncos for the entire first half. sunday night. the probably had to do with the pats' six fumbles. 24-0 going into the locker room. the halftime talk or the yell made the difference. in the third, new england surges with three touchdowns. then in the fourth, manning answers back. connecting, 31-0 overtime they go. the pats punt bounces off the broncos. pats recovering a kicked field goal. pats win 34-31. next, cowboys and the giants. in the third, the giants' brandon meijers catches the ball. cowboys defensive back so upset that meijers caught it, they forgot to tag him. myers untouched, get up, runs in, gets that touchdown. seconds left in the game tied at 21-21, the cowboys hit a field goal for the win 24-21. former colts coach bruce arians now coaching the cards. leads his team to a 40-11 win in that grudge match. and the panthers stage a dramatic comeback to defeat the dolphins 20-16, carolina's seventh straight victory. the packers and vikings tied 26-26, nobody could score o.t. it ends the packers nonwinning streak without qb aaron rodgers. but, hey, let's put on bikinis, why not? >> brotherly love between howie long's son. a scuffle started between the rams william hayes and the bears kyle long. in comes number 91, chris long, big bro, to pull little bro, kyle from the fight. little bro kyle got a personal foul. brotherly love, huh? next in the bcs standings, auburn moves to fourth ahead of the matchup with number one alabama saturday. that's going to be a good one. followed by ohio state. and mizzou gets into number five. talking about mizzou, the latest tribute, a salute to gettysburg. >> nice. >> you just got to sit back and watch this stuff. osu's band decided to do something a little special. the salute to gettysburg featured an even explosive cannon. 23 wins in a row for the school. jersey rocker jon bon jovi might become the proud owner of the buffalo bills, a cording to cbs sports, bon jovi wanted to buy the team when it goes up for sale. he's been meeting nfl owners and general managers for insight on the possible purchase. the bills are believed to go on the market when the owner who is 95, passes away. after beating brandon rios, manny pacquiao is now prepared to make a heartfelt visit to his native philippines. pacquiao for the people said he loves them all. he says the victory was for people of the philippines. while snow is falling across the u.s. it's surf hawaii. michael bourez won 17.7 for the first leg in the advance, triple crown of surfing. the water temperature i hear, about 75 degrees. just ahead, "catching fire" had the odds completely in their favorite, torching the weekend box office. and a wild night at the american music awards have people buzzing across the country this morning. you're watching "early today." welcome back, in the wake of the big storm, we have night weather in the west. the question is how long will it last? well if it's a cold start, we'll have a nice afternoon with sunshine, kind of winter feeling low. even for the west as we go to tuesday, everything still looks pretty nice. by the time we get to wednesday,le busy travel day, not showing any organized rain. there will be a storm diving down the coast. as of now, wednesday, it should be far enough offshore. but by thursday it could be close enough to bring rainfall to southern california. there's at least a possibility for some thanksgiving day rain around southern cal kalg. >> today and tomorrow l.a. should enjoy the nice, crisp clean air. >> for a day. half a day. thank you, bill, "the hunger games" "catching fire" burned the box office down with the most in history. katniss and crew brought with $161 million. the fourth-largest domestic opening in history. "thor" $14 million followed by and "the best man holiday" and "delivery man" and "free birds." it was a big night at the american music awards. rihanna won the icon award presented by her mom. katy perry made the questionable choice of performing her hit "unconditionally" in geisha gear. and miley cyrus made sure her performance will be an internet sensation by placing a giant kitten in the back for "wrecking ball." lip-syncing with her during "wrecking ball." speaking of cyrus who turned 21 this week, her l.a. house was burglarized friday. authorities have not released a list of items stolen from heir home. >> oh, boy. i hope nothing racy was stolen. it would be, uh. >> lady gaga, the pop star is now the new face of design house for versace. and ron burgundy for sportscast curling in canada. >> the fashion houses of europe have him on retainer. his sense of style impeccable. his mustache is insured with lloyds of london. he's the newest member of tsn team. and he's coming for you. >> december 20th, is when that film comes out. i'm richard lui. we hope this is just your first stop of the day on nbc. leading the news this morning on nbcnews.com, sandy hool school massacre full report to be relowsed monday. the public will have to wait for the full police report on the massacre. and in "gentlemen's quarterly" the 25 least influential people of 2013 and as "gq" puts it a bad year for impotent megalomaniacs. topping that list, dennis rodman and his trip to north korea. and on the list that nobody really wants to be on, miley cyrus, paula deen, anthony weiner, will smith, lady gaga justin bieber, and even president barack obama. topping the news, a major storm system is crossing the country as 43 million americans prepare for thanksgiving travel. it's already killed 13. flights in dallas, texas, hundreds were canceled. an historic dealing is reached on iran's nuclear stockpile. and u.s. ally railg calling the deal an historic mistake. president obama called israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu sunday. he said the u.s. will remain firm in its commitment to israel. he says israel has good reason to be skeptical about iran's intentions. so a family in australia knows how to celebrate the holidays and they have a world to prove it. guinness reports that the richards family has the most christmas lights on a residential property. they hung up over 500,000 christmas lights around their home. 31 miles of holiday cheer. the homeowner david richards said his family began competing for the world record to raise awareness for the charity for sudden infant death syndrome. >> the only thing that matters is, do they take them down or leave them up the entire year? >> i would leave them. >> that many? >> i would leave them, too many. it's time for a look ahead. president obama travels to san francisco to push for immigration reform. the president will call on congress to act. a bill passed in the senate earlier this year, but has stalled in the house. 50 years ago today the country said farewell to a leader john f. kennedy. kennedy was shot and killed just three days before. and happy birthday to former nfl quarterback, dr. rick knabb, 37 years old, actress christina applegate, 42, and economist, actor, anyone? ben stein. cold and snow pummel the midwest. and speaking of thanksgiving today, we'll have a sneak peek at some of the macy's thanksgiving day balloons right on the plaza. i'm richard lui, along with bill cairns, have a good one. >>. >> new this morning, cashing in on california. in a few hours president obama will be back in town for a whirl wind fundraising trip. we'll have details and the last minute slash in ticket prices coming up. >> also, a man risking his life to save another. what we're learning about the good samaritan who tried to catch a woman after she jumped off the upper deck at the o.co coliseum. >> a late night dinner interrupted. what prompted this police presence at the south bay restaurant. >> a live look outside, that is all across san francisco, a cool, crisp clear morning. get your week jump started. it's monday, november 25. this is "today in the bay."
safe and man in his thirties and barricading himself inside a home right now. as we get more information will bring it to you. police in the east bay up the rest a transition if man accused of carjacking had been a woman in history now. kron4's but what is live with an update. else a real police credit good teamwork as they richmond oakland police as well as the u.s. marshal's office again dozens of tips and possible sightings of their suspect 28 year-old terrance party. one of those tips ended up hamlet panning out and it ultimately lead to a hearties arrest 3 here's a picture of the 28 year-old oakland police arrested them. if police to accused party of punching and 89 year-old woman and else garridos cbs on sunday afternoon and then stealing her toyota camry and authorities described the attack as violence. the 89 suffered broken ribs and a broken collarbone and overnight police tell us a day are glad the 20 year-old is off the street. obviously she's 89 years repeated punches causing injuries that to this day if we saw her for a bruising is very severe. puzzle of the broken bones and she will be hospitalized for what we are told nearly three weeks. >>: else three the police are still looking for the car that party allegedly stole a white 1992 toyota camry license plate number to z and r 291. terence party was booked in the contra costa martinez detention facility and that's where he remained to this morning being held on $300,000 bail. >>: thanks a lot like the >>: the former bart police officer who shot and killed unarmed passenger oscar grant taking the stand in his own defense yesterday. oscar grant's father is suing carts and a former bart officer on as mehserle over the 2009 shooting spree that mehserle has maintained he thought he had his taser in his hand when he shot oscar granted the back three yesterday grant's lawyer accused mehserle of racial profiling saying he knew he was pulling out his gun. you don't bring got a taser when you try to defend yourself. it shows the intended to kill him. messily will be back on the stand tomorrow morning. >>: new information this morning from a stanford university student who says she was raped by a fellow student. lee a share in france's leader of the group's stand with libya just found out that the university is not going to expel the person who she says raped her and they will allow him to attend graduate school and two years. she says her fellow students attacked her in her home state of alaska in january. lea student supporters say they're going to be protesting at the faculty senate meeting at the stanford law school at 3:00 this afternoon in solidarity with lea. >>: big news for san francisco city college. it is still open for now. the accrediting commission for community and junior colleges some have decided to give city college and more time to comply with accrediting standards. the community college is going to be stripped of its accreditation last month because of financial and management problems likely forcing the school to close the accrediting commission said in its expecting city college to come to full compliance for within the next two years of varied as a huge relief for the college for its 80,000 plus students to go there the best of fact developing news this morning the person who shot and killed the priests of the shooting happened overnight at the mother of mercy mission at the arizona capitol building in phoenix won a priest was killed another priest was hurt and police believe the whole thing started as a botched burglary. the priest to survive the attack is in critical condition and police did find a car nearby that they believe the shooter took from the church but they have not found the gunmen yet at this hour. >>: state and city officials are asking san francisco archbishop to cancel the and seat same-sex marriage or early appearance. the letter to the archbishop was signed by lieutenant governor gavin newsom mayor ed lee and 70 other state and city officials these leaders want the bishop to cancel an upcoming trip to attend the march for married on june 19th at washington d.c. and the archbishop is one of the noted speakers at the rally and controversial comments from texas gov. rick perry speaking about texases efforts to about therapy for homosexuality. he was speaking at the commonwealth club and mr. perry said he did not know whether another therapy worked. governor carey was also asked whether he believed homosexuality was it is ordering three governor. and drawing and a comparison between alcoholism and homosexuality st i may have the genetic coding that i'm inclined to be an alcoholic but i have the desire not to do that. and i look at the homosexual issue the same way. the governor. speaking last night in san francisco. >>: 7 08 coming up on the kron4 morning news amazon the latest perc is mixed to its prime users years will explain >>: ithe part of us that a littwants to play,on. wants to be mischievous, wants 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measles stop out here want to start moving out here the backup will reach the toll plaza that's likely gonna be the case for a while this morning. >>: it's actually musn't much works that looks. >>: 580 is backed up into the macarthur mace and we have drive times over 24 minutes in 24 at their best bet this morning is using a mix freeway to get to the bay bridge. >>: hoping to get their children into a school of their choice this fall so much one parents calling for action. the school district decided not to make any changes to the system that leaves parents waiting in line for hours. >>: its very frustrating that the school district is trying to force you to take a school that you don't choose to go. >>: she doesn't know where to turn her tenure old son is ready the into the sixth grade she would like him to go to gm in the middle school one of the top-ranked in the city. some more than six months ago she rejected the side feeder school off due to a test score every class,--requested the and the school. >>: i can send their but it's like the poor test is my concern there when i'm looking for is a decent school. >>: garcia done her homework that is one other words rang schools in the city with a very low test scores. is no place to cover sunday was a good students and excited about learning. >>: he is an a-plus student his cortes' are an 95% and, english and language arts so he should be better than that. so she got on the waiting list and add a third school but still no room. >>: early in the morning she lined up for hours with hundreds of other parents outside of the san for cisco school district offices to find out what schools had availability. again bad news for the only option that is a visitation valley middle school. >>: i'm worried about my son's education and need him to be educated what is the policy but that they're using the system is very broken. >>: she doesn't know what she'll do what she can get her child and to the aegean a middle school for other parents and they've made other plans they verdi started home schooling the child and they plan to do the same next year unless they can get their kids into a quality middle school. >>: it's this and does a statement saying " not every child will be about to attend this public schools of their choosing due to the fact that some schools are hired a man than others. >>: more than 2600 students did not receive the school of their choice. >>: fast and 733 renown the judge denied bail to a stronger china gave sir raymond chan boy charm. chow had been in jail since march a judge agreed with prosecutors that chou would be a danger to the community if he was released his men charged with conspiracy and selling stolen stollen liquor. they also and that this state senator eep. >>: what led to the death of the san pablo mad. annette m. burr alert for three children. police found them with their mothers of the sureties to is now accused of a man knows best. a couple let been in a bitter custody dispute for months and the she claimed that her husband abused her for years the third to kill her. the klan the mother was living in a hotel and not caring for them properly. >>: the fire friends are francisco that we brought was breaking news a monday morning on the crime 4 morning news. --- kron 4 morning news we now know the damage amounts are to honor $50,000 in damage and $75,000 of damage is to the laundry and customers close that was and the dry cleaners. >>: the 34 year-old, a board of trustees have made the decision to shut down due to bankruptcy. in the theater cannot maintain itself on cash flow to the box office on and on the donations from a healthy--wealthy backers fear and in 1980 they manage about seven light pharmacists a year. >>: are now the national average of $3.64 a gallon in gas-, price per gallon of regular 422 is 411 in oakland and 409 san jose. >>: coming up next guest up the magic box will have details about the return of the educational shows. welcome back to the crime 4 morning news the high spot as the san mateo bridge press at this moment to isn't doing reasonably well. >>: one of the most educational and influence cartoons for the 1990's is making a comeback that flicks is ready launching the magic school bus with 26 new episodes. put it will rematch in the show featuring mrs. reso.fre heat shields are compromised. we have multiple failures. are those thrusters burning? that's a negative. what's that alarm? fuel cell two is down. i'm going to have to guide her in manually. this is very exciting. but i'm at my stop. come again? i'm watching this on the train. it's so hard to leave. good luck with everything. with the u-verse tv app, the u-verse revolves around you the u-verse revolves around you , on some 45 here's a quick check of the forecast for you right now when there's a big story. 26 mi. an hour sustained winds would do well when advisory in effect for this portion of the bay of effect until 8:00 tonight. >it could gust up to 40 m.p.h. o be careful of those windy conditions. over the porches of the mountain looks beautiful blue skies their light winds out there as we just talked about here's return, pitchers are right now 56 degrees in san francisco concord livermore santa rosa all still in the low to mid 50's at this hour. we will start the system morning clear in the east bay before too long will see sunny skies over the bay as well. >>: satellite red airshows all on the coastline here and services to a particular were looking at peninsula and north bay shoreline so thin at the moment. auspex and clear to the north bay coast will see not mostly cloudy skies this afternoon. a 75 the 78 the general temperature range will see fit the degree murder was wrecked and the bells as well. mid-70s for the more the men's 70 for their ceremonies elbo. ur sixties to low '70's in the north beta be beautiful spring much wherever you are on the bay. >>: now was conducted on the commute george. >>: as we've been tracking the san mateo bridge and again this morning as the high spot heavy traffic on the northbound direction. but our experience is a very heavy traffic 18 + drive times occasionally 20 to 22 minutes for a word and by stored city. the backup is worse than it looks here is actually still into the macarthur made on 580 west bomb. i'm 24 is still backed up approaching highway 24 and the drive times for 580 are still bad but sheriff coming from the e sure and mimics. looking at your golden gate bridge looking at some from the cyclical care what's happening around the bay will updates and drive time the heaviest traffic will because it should westbound to the will pass. the ride into dublin not so bad but in the livermore 680 south looks good cells may freeways is welsh traffic on a one-to-one looks north of the 80 interchange sunset san jose traffic looks great. the north where ride is not too bad there marin county. safeway understands you got to make every dollar count these days. that's why 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even know there has been no legal actions from the police. >>: the pleas of servile shot and killed a passenger, said in his own defense rested and not his father's suing part yesterday/over the 2009 shooting they're bringing up a civil lawsuit. france lawyer says that there's profiling cities and he knew the third in retaking out , a letter to archbishop's sell tours currently on the west signed by the governor mary lee and 70 other state city officials. they're canceling the trip coming up for the march for marriage. >>: rick perry the texas governor's make some remarks and services still talking about taxes this is the first, to allow therapy from homosexuality. they did not know whether the therapy works he also was asked whether he believes that homosexuality was a disorder. gov. perry saying " i may have a genetic coding still inclined to be an alcoholic but i have the desire not to do that another could these homosexual issues the same way. state regulators are closing down harvard this there's, on or were let and sidecar. it could do a factor in next ride to the airport. the california public authorities commission cleared companies are noticing they cannot do business at any airport unless they make a specific agreement with that airport. and if they don't the regular say that there are going to start revoking permits. cabdrivers are behind this move and they say the pressure companies to not to go to the same training or the same assurance that they do. >>: protesters to say that european taxi drivers appear to have backfired badly. cabdrivers in london paris and, whatever their car is a popular tourist sites and park them blocking traffic for hours. they posted as in the newspapers offering customers discounts it said that it sought a hunt $850,000 bond and signups just alone. focoming up the developing story that were following a shooting incited catholic church in downtown the is one priest dead. 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[pro bur] atarme,we ke at clisis wi wilife e ro mayot bcoved? and at y cou be ableor y acdenton yr prerty thmoreou kw,thbett youcaplanor . e ro mayot bcoved? it's the yoplait greek taste-off ansee w mu yououldave. and we are asking the music city which 100-calorie strawberry greek yogurt is the next big thing. i'm a random lady with a table full of yogurt. want some greek yogurt? can i ask you a question? tell us what tastes best. this one is definitely the winner. that one is good. a is great. yoplait greek 100! that's the stuff right there. you want to see which one yoplait greek beat? chobani yes! yoplait greek wins again. take the taste-off for yourself! it is a beautiful day for yogurt. appraisal's killed and another priest was hurt in the trees that survived the attack is and current critical condition police found the car nearby that they think that the shooter took from the church. staff at this hour they do not know who the gunmen may be. >>: it's never been easier to find a dentist. watch. dentist. 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[ chuckles ] so don't put it off. call 1-800-dentist today. ♪ [ telephone rings how's the camping tr? well, the kids had fun, but i think i slept on aock. ♪ the best part of wakin' up what are you doing having coffee. ohh. ♪ is folgers in your cup update on the weather and traffic are not. >>: differ from others that we can as can be beautiful and all have that seven their run the day forecast coming up in just a moment. the cause of their the wind is blowing and the fall is pushing an and parts of the peninsula. we do have a problem a delay at showing a 55 max minute delay arriving flights because of the visibility. it is a little windy action affair filled is looking pretty good right now a 18 mi. per hour sustained winds right now. 10 mi. an hour relents and concord and that's sure we have a high wind advisory all day today. good does cut up to 40 mi. from iran that would allow numbers . slowly warming we and the right now, said the 60 degree mark. 56 in oakland still low 50s and surfaces was to take a look at the north bay or slowly warming it up slow 52 annapolis. . were looking for a generally 75 to 78 degrees for the east bay and the south bay there will be a couple of locations in the south and east bay that could get up to the 80 degree mark. but for most of the east bay and south bay will hit 75 to 78. expect that low amid 60 range for the big part of, the east bay shoreline. here's a look of your seven a around the bay shore cast-- forecast/will be back to the mid and upper 80s for both of those days father's day sunday is looking pretty good with 87 and an 74 by the bay and plenty of sunshine brought afternoon. that's the weather let's find out about the traffic of the ship and of george. >>: look up the word hotspot there's the picture you see what's on 92 traffic stop chaired the toll plaza. it picks up and starts to move again as men like that for about the last hour 15 minutes. drive times a still holding between 18 and 20 minutes looks like they were dropping but not completely. over the bay bridge completely different picture. early into the west from backup here we've never been backed up on the a 80 approach that's minute 10 minutes drive into service cisco. now looking at 16 minutes if you're coming from the macarthur made. the sure freeways still heavy here 28 minutes hercules to berkeley and 680 south from pleasant hill leading to walnut creek ball 680 yen to 42. south bay freeways look great this morning much better than usual ride times. a 17 and the cnn reporter becomes part of the story today during a protest at the world cup. >>: under some pushing back is a conceit, did you hear that she said that my arm something one plan there. shares in the middle of the protests turned >>: shack at darlington issues covering for cnn happen at the demonstration where she was pushing towards the stadium you see that they started pushing her here's more video of that. there were seriously hurt but they were indeed hit by one of the canisters police fired tear gas into that crowd. that made the move there was at least one arrest and a lot of people and of brazil are angry over the government spending zero hundred billion dollars on the world cup. >>: a militant group of is forcing the u.s. security forces to abandon their posts in northern a rock the militants branch and are cat are taking control of the city creek after capturing most no the second largest city and a rock. iraq, iraq's prime ministers accept the state emergency as a declared and iraq. >>: pakistan say that a pair of american johnston dropped three missiles on a military compound in the northwestern travel fast. it came hours after an earlier attack that killed militants in the same area. and after brad pitt as and his partner angelina julie london is looking for support to a new press, accused sex crimes. they're being held by secretary william hayes, for governments around the world to get public support for the plan. they're making impossible to obtain justice. >>: covers eric said the this step down now and house majority letter while i intend to serve out my term as a member of congress and virginia is effective july 31st i will be stepping down as majority leader. >>: he left the gop willing like everybody else are were shocked. the no. 2 republican in the house, the tea party back economics for factor say that he is out of touch. after dodger reporters' questions for hours john maynard shared this for his good friend. >>: democrats said that it was another shined for sharp divisions. the party darling. a look at what's turning on the web this morning apparently doing good to others as well freedom a new study just sell to people who believe that this has a positive affect on their own health. 76 percent of volunteers say that volunteering has made them feel healthier and 94 percent say that it's been just their mood. welcome back watching wall street >>: #americans to file for unemployment last week is very disappointing with the retail sales to. alfred hundred today this is our ocean spray cran-lemonade.o tire swings! only be! whoa! ocean spy cran-lemonade. a bold tst on an old favorite. ocean spy cran-lemonade. i can't wait to get to mattress discounters because the tempur-pedic bonus event ends sunday. choose $300 in free gifts, and, get up to 48 months interest-free financing with any tempur-pedic mattress. ♪ mattress discounters update on the weather and traffic. >>: will be alive luckier this san mateo bridge this morning we have some sunshine this finally as it is see were looking out toward the peninsula hills l.a.'s for the bay side of the peninsula or looking at a partly cloudy conditions for the most of the day. we're expecting in a loaf portions of san mateo county or looking at parley clout, to start the morning prepared it's in the mid-50s a little cool. this afternoon looking for a sunny and mild conditions with temperatures getting up board towards 80 degrees for some of our locations away from the bay. although san jose will be right around 75 degrees or so. win smiled five is 10 mi. per hour for the north. patchy fog will return temperatures will drop down to run around 50 to 55 degrees. will be back in about 50 minutes a 45. the forget father's day is on sunday. >>: as we continue to monitor the san mateo bridge where traffic has been heavy for the last hour and a half. the tail lights and the right set of your screen are still slow and we will be from time to time. this backup has not yet completely cleared woodbin into their free on the stand. it's been a better writer the bay bridge was from and here you see the commune looks great the short drive times the 1416 minutes. and then san francisco things are still sluggish for the self wrong direction but moving better this session of us has been clear from the traffic lanes with a still that backed up for the inbound central freeway. >>: police and is there a rancid transit man carjacking a elderly woman and also in a. >>: the authorities conducted from the community for help in a restaurant starting he's accused of assaulting a woman on sunday the prom for police is that he's such as the man and they cannot find a man so last night here's a picture 28 year-old pat tears party as taken into custody last night just after 8:00. --tarrence hardy , now in order to cat target the received help from o'connor russian police as well as the u.s. marshals service all to help them track down the. we get the digita 2znr291 license plate numvber for. and it does not deny bail for former chairman time gangster chapa is involving state senator the the e. he's been in jail since march they believe and the fact the maybe danger to the police. this a the same federal investigation indebted state senator lindy. leland ye oscar are mondo of going no was found shot to death and is, but his three children all of the under age of 12 were missing hours later the police found them with their mother of lisa or test was not accused of the husband's death according to a police document, the couple had been arguing a custody dispute for months the wife claimed that her husband had physically abused her for years at turned to kill her in april the father filed a petition to get so custody of the three children claiming that the mother was living in a hotel and i can for them properly. >>: 27 cisco sisters are queues for running eighth sex trafficking in the city. there facing seven counts of pimping and herring, the terms of the to run and dollars for relations with young women is not known at who the women are that they were forced into prostitution and if they were under rich. ha they decided to give city colleges more time to provide with the standards committee to at colleges and beat a put with this credentials' next month. it is expecting city calls to come into full compliance with them in the next two years. no rush, andy. come on. with the chase mobile app you can get a lot done in a little amount of time from transferring funds wait a minute. you've got to be kidding. did you guys see that? that ball was out. to paying your coach for adding five miles per hour to your serve. that ball wasn't in. get your eyes checked. help me out here. download the best mobile app today. so you can always have the advantage. chase. so you can traffic is still not appear on the san mateo bridge for the west on ride is still a hot spot this morning as we continue to see from time to time stop and go conditions was a bomb. i take the rest of the high spots and a full report trader had. >>: and that is the water level towards europe. the can get that to the ocean carrier to mount this rescue mission i kind of an underwater some gun to cat the finished which then relocated into places with them ready to survive unless the flow and to the other streams there ever to respond at all this year. it's important to this activity to move the fish to save the rhine for future years. now because we didn't get the ball run this year, investors bought not and have that a dog population this frigid incident ran across still mineral suckers and other species this is that these and speeches are not going to survive a could take several years for the film had populations to recover. heat shields are compromised. we have multiple failures. are those thrusters burning? that's a negative. what's that alarm? fuel cell two is down. i'm going to have to guide her in manually. this is very exciting. but i'm at my stop. come again? i'm watching this on the train. it's so hard to leave. good luck with everything. with the u-verse tv app, the u-verse revolves around you the u-verse revolves around you the live look at the weather. tech of fairfield 28 my province or wins now it's back up again were talking and vallejo vacaville fairfield imparts to the delta on the east bay like on any of camberwell. trogon hours winds and livermore. o when revisory ineffectual about 8:00,, if driving or fear crossing over the nation and the burgess you will get that does at the when issued during the mid stands. it's a little cloudy still here towards the water and a promised a cloudy towards the coast by the peninsula. red garlic and attempted pedicel '60s later this afternoon looks like this in the south bay 78 and set clear 70 a and san jose. or time up the same forecast for the east bay ferry it mid-60's their end effect oakland is 64. analysts said the bay in the '70s . here's our the weather's gonna go on the next seven days were a woman of tomorrow just a few more, disenable have a high pressure bumping up. look set will get 87 and and and lynwood. but into the first half of next week was have a good weather pattern. >>: still some slowing in the cemetery bridges and a house far from over an hour now. we're still sluggish conditions here where we cannot seem to shake it in the west wrong direction. we've been into their free westbound though he's found at the base of the high red with a report of the stall british and have any impact on the west phone rivalry the east bay ride the short freeway as you head down from sample because of a crash care at the albany offer from 80 westbound it's been clear to the shoulder before car crash. this system offered to have reported an accident there. that's right things about up from a highway 17 for the north kron ride. the bay bridge is a little backup fast track planes here that may take you 16 to 18 minutes to get through. natcher usual show and tell the first grader was taken to hospital after the citral girl brought 11 packs a hero when a tumor elementary school will get more on what happened on our homepage. welcome that they're saying that mcdonnell sterling as mentally incapacitated. a 52 red now a dog gets stuck in a compromising position. [bl ris] abouyournsurce,bause wh youon' you arte [pro bur] ae n hu you and at pkingear stre wh youon' e fit mp ders ieveith [pro bur] ae [annncercall-800arme,u ansee w mu yououldave. of new videos to show you coming from new york a crash in a fiery explosion at the gas pump their in white plains new york and on, off-duty police of the service's own life and pulled a badly hurt drive her to safety. it is a 69 year-old man driving he blacked out and he's the one who slammed into the gas pump the off-duty police officer pulled amount before the flames spread. you probably heard about a firefighter saving up cat from tree a look this the rest if crews and miami florida said save this dog the gap between and a fense that worked on, madam on the tight spot. coming up on the crime 4 morning news facebook is given more information about the highest bid. place for joining us on this thursday morning let's start off with our weather forecasts. >>: the morning a lot of sunshine right now on the east bay we did have low clouds over the past couple of hours heading up to blue skies now pretty windy especially near the delta the way, is starting to pick up the setting out conditions as we head into the afternoon. temperatures will cool backdown will talk about that, we do have some strong winds up their affair filledper hour sustainedr in the 40 mi. per hour range the sabres will pick up as we head into the afternoon the gusty conditions for the coastline of the full details of what to expect if rest your forecast coming up in 50 minutes. >>: were still honoring the high spot of was that and the e sure freeware wearier still backed up lead down to albany with an accident. it's nevertheless managing to back up this a interstate 880 ride in the westbound direction. leading up from a 80 towards cupertino from earlier crime problem there and we have a lower bayshore freewa, and southbound coming at a red was sitting with the backup and the south onside almost into mellow part. san mateo bridge has been a hot spot for a couple of hours this morning finally we got some real and lasting relief for this was down ride. >>: in san francisco to kids are safe their father arrested after he was involved in overnight standoff with police. will tran has the details. >>: after eight hours and off he was arrested and the value, stall a this 1030 last night a few miles from this location were shot were fired police pulled up to this location by then he was long gone they knew who he was so they told the police officers to come here in the 100 block of ward avenue but he would not comply he have, as kids inside the home of 11 and 14 years old they brought negotiators and as around 745 in the morning there ride to his front door talked to him and took him into custody the two kids run harm in the police do not think they were hostages but they would not work with him. >>: we have no information this morning from stanford university they say that they are not going to expel the student who accused of raping and other student off-campus in alaska where she lived, she said that chivas of god didn't university is not going to expel the person who raped her and that will allow him to attend graduate school in two years. they said that a fellow student raped her in january in her home state of alaska. there are no charges filed against them they're gonna be pro tasting at the faculty meeting at 3:00 this afternoon and solidary with the decision. >>: the police as officer shot and killed , and the bars trend. leslie has maintained that he thought he had to a taser and in san when he shops and ham in the back. they say that accused him of racial profiling they knew he was taking out his gun. >>: they're asking surfaces " r bishop to cancel a nt same-sex marriage rally appearance in a letter to, archbishop of salvatore was signed by the governor and mayor and 70 other state officials they want him to cancel an upcoming trip to attend the march for marriage on june 19th the washington d.c.. >>: longstandin credit of redone and our readers of the terminal and since the summer see and go mocha back at its 910 as we continue to check that's pioneer in the e sure freeway. traffic is still salicylate accident and albany on the way onto the shoulder now. house republicans are looking for new leadership after tuesday's primary upset in virginia. house majority leader urging conservatives to stay united. after a political newcomer be cancer in a republican primary they decided not to with it till the end of the term to resign his leader post. >>: bonds backed up to milled way that's due to a recess at third avenue was slow going there. drive times are around 16 to 18 minutes if you do, on a democrat the may 7th silt which is a hot spot for nearly two hours this morning it is now one any longer it's clear now in the east from direction. if your drivers to the golden gate bridge is light traffic not to the south all commute. let's get to the weather center here's erica with your update. >>: is a pretty good overcast and the lash at the golden gate bridge here see this as asserting to clearer after temperatures slowly but surely are getting there. san jose right now is 60 degrees and 50 and lived in the house and severance, cisco. the cloud cover that ridiculous it and little but a strong winds. in fact in fairfield and delay of the entire county is under a win advisory until this evening. here's a look at drive afternoon highs for today's can be cooler than yesterday with red was city and 6972 degrees a melody and in low eighties for them a valid. --valley , '60s and the east bay shoreline. and here's seven their run the before test highlight it's a pretty mild for kansas' re-entered tomorrow and will continue into this pattern with the morning fog in the afternoon and the sunshine. organum approach in the '90s as we head into the weekend before reid returned will have mild conditions were back into the 80s for those spots. watching today's withers and losers and wall street. a lot of this claim several retail film. >>: the data has been disappointing our gdp should be higher than it is at this point in time. applications today for the first-time unemployment claims are good with other economic data was that we have very soft second quarter developing and we think it's can be a solid second quarter develop and was seen be stuck at a 2 percent gdp growth. there's any silver lining affirmation remains in check. it does seem to be a worry right now. >>: health-care costs as a deflating a coffered tv not so much food you have a seen the spurs a food lately. will safeway understands you got to make every dollar count these days. that's why they have lots of ways for you to save. real big club card deals, the safeway app and gas rewards. this week, sweet and juicy prima peaches are just $.99 a pound. tender rancher's reserve ribeye steak is only $6.99 a pound. and arrowhead water is just $3.33 a case. there's more savings to love... at safeway. ingredients for life. for my previous animal services responded to four calls earlier this week after concerns here that they noticed dogs in distress and said five vehicles. the adults were ok, police say it could be a lot worse. on monday the temperature of fremont climb to the late '80s and the relieving their dogs inside of the car without ventilation potentially is deadly. fremont police go to geneva by sir, explain that officer's whistle time responding to reports with animals locked in cars. every minute that goes by that the temperatures rise to give an idea of just how training centers to beat they say that when the temperatures outside are 85 degrees inside the temperatures can resell hundred and 20 degrees in less than 30 minutes. --120 degrees this is the, the emergency in these situations time is up the assets in giving the pet to a veterinarian is critical. police said that the take these cases very seriously anybody calling and their animal inside the vehicle can face charges of criminal amyloplasts am not animal welcome back at 928 seen amid forecasts from the bay area let the sunshine in the south bay and east bay but still leave, on to overcast conditions for the peninsula and north bay. where now the seven jurors are up in the fifties to low 60s. expect mostly cloudy conditions by later on this evening patchy fog will start a formed during the overnight hours. when deftly in the forecast for today. we do emeline adviser frets on a county. fairfield is reporting a 20 mi. per hour winds right now of britain and the rest your forecast it will be talking about the father's day forecast coming up to 50 minutes. >>: as we continue to tracking a couple hotspots but conditions are improving but sir here with some of the red both not north from and self on the a city in heavy traffic coming down from , one no one and the south bay. it's slow here on albany other way down to the macarthur made the that's the only stretch of really slow traffic left on the shore freeway ride in the drive times are not that bad. the steady backup right now in the center lanes in the fast track users if your cash customer, coming from the limit should shoot through about 10 minutes. the salmon's their bridgehead denies cover to ours is morning and i were back down to normal ride with the 1315 minute commute direction drive time. >>: 930 right now police in the east bay had, arrested a man accused of beating and injuring a woman. the police search seen that the team work involved in this case is day its richman and oakland police have fallen upon dozens of leads and a possible sighting of terry heard it. now we just got his mug shot here his new field this morning the 28 year-old was taken into custody along 73rd avenue just after 8:00 last night they accused party of punching a 89 year-old woman in a parking lot and cbs on sunday afternoon and then stealing her toyota camry and leaving her with a broken ribs and a broken collarbone. the city presents a big threat. they go from confrontation that might be minor to some or they're actually having contacted the person. it gets more serious with each time. authorities are moot now searching for the car that he stole it is a white toyota camry 1992 the license plate number is2zerny2. thanks a lot. >>: the judge had denied bail for gangster raymond chow he is one of the main defendants in the corruption case. chow's been in jail since march and the judge, as the chao will be in danger to the community. he'll be charged with conspiracy and selling stolen liquor is a federal in distaste investigation, that has just not indicted ,. moody's tells this morning know what may have led to the gas of of and more alert to the three children. here is found shot to death at his home and his three children all of the under of 12 are missing. alicea cortez is now in custody accused of her husband's death according to police and court documents the couple had been in a bitter custody dispute for months and the wife claims that her husband was a physically abusing her for years and turned to kill her. in april the husband filed a petition to get so close to the of the three children claiming that the mother was living in a hotel and i can't for the children. it's open that their children into the schools of the choice this fall and services go these grants and are calling for action after the san francisco school district decided that's make any changes for the schools this year. >>: it's very frustrating that the school district is trying to force you to take a school that you not want to go to. >>: she does not order turned her general sun is going to the sixth grade to like him to go to jeannie middle school when the top-ranked in the sitting, so she rejected the signs will do to was lack of test scores. she also requested presidio as a backup so in march decided then to, assigned to and other middle school of >>: i refuse to send him there on siren shares that are more visitation valley is one of the words rang schools and the city was very low test scores no place she says a person who is a good student and accepted about learning. >>: is a-plus student his tests are 95% and 94% in all his language arts. >>: to get on the waiting list and added a third school and still no room. so early in the morning she lined up for hours with hundreds of other parents outside the san francisco school district offices. they want to find out what schools have availability and then there was more bad news to still the only option for a son is visitation valley middle school. >>: i'm worried about my son's education the want him to be educated was a policy, that there using the system is very broken. >>: she doesn't know what should do if she can get her child into ginnie middle school and as for other parents they've are made alternate plans. one woman is already home schooling her child they sure she plans to do it again next year unless she could get your child into a quality metal school. and it's unclear whether the school districts are willing to change the process there will not return, our calls to discuss the matter they say that they will not be a to j in every child. more than 2600 students and not received none of the choices. >>: as is anything you like us to investigate in your community cancer met your story to deal the special section on our web site call my kron 4 story. cancer met your story to deal the special section on our web siheat shields are compromised. we have multiple failures. are those thrusters burning? that's a negative. what's that alarm? fuel cell two is down. i'm going to have to guide her in manually. this is very exciting. but i'm at my stop. come again? i'm watching this on the train. it's so hard to leave. good luck with everything. with the u-verse tv app, the u-verse revolves around you the u-verse revolves around you ithe part of us that a littwants to play,on. wants to be mischievous, wants to run free, all you have to do is let it out. find your inner minion only at the despicable me minion mayhem ride at universal studios hollywood. oh i knew i forgot something... i'll just do it now. well, we're boarding. no, i'll use citi mobile. takes two seconds, better safe than sorry right? yeah who knows if we'll even get service on the islands? what! no service? seriously? no electricity, we're going to make our own candles, we're going to churn our own butter. oh, we lost one. can't leave a bag unattended. bank from almost anywhere with the citi mobile app. to learn more visit citi.com/easierbanking and usual fishing expedition that took place yesterday red look at the efforts to rescue the, is . there not some wandering through poison note renard's and mud. it means that either the rest of the trout here should minister rise this less and less time to the ocean or most of them have perished for lack of slope and the cree. k, there's a reservoir so low that it can no longer sustain the creek below. is trapped a few remaining fish using underwater stun gun state, cox plenty of minnows. but there one trawl is very important, if it's a female that's toward 3000 eggs. still a the bounce back and the the right conditions. but they relocated to a spot where there should be enough water for to survive until the return and with luck make it to the ocean and back care someday but the damage is done for now. >>: toelp ep o hom heahy. bunot l clnersre eal. lys, weo bend canin we cl itealtng. althg isilli ger, d hang me clningower th bleh wiout e harsess. d hang me clningower it bei the1 peatrian remmend brd. and arinhealy hats in5,00schos. lyl. srt hlthing. and arinhealy hats the mac to the crime 4 morning news at 945 let's get one final check of the forecasters a letter, cover over half of the bay area peninsula close and north bay split the steps still dealing with, high winds. we are seeing more sunshine and of course it's a little warmer this morning we see it more sunshine as we head into the early afternoon. we do level strong wind advisory intel and o'clock this evening. the wind gusted up to 40 mi. per hour. so will continue with the very reason conditions into the afternoon. the highs will be cooler than yesterday's i think was the temperature is mainly in the '70s for the east bay fairfield will be 78 degrees for leno at 72. a little cooler on the waterfront. now but today of 73. here's your seven their run-up a forecast mild weather expected to more were still in a deal with one of morning fog but a lot of sunshine in the afternoon as we head into the week and the upper 80s and england at 947 traffic with george. >>: arm and train arrived at interstate 880 no longer tracking any hot spots as a good look here at the commute. this is win one of the lingering malaise low e surest completely cleared out along with 24 and 68. but no longer backed up to the up to my past. in the south bay in general the san jose freeway's look good still slow here red was sitting in the paul russell in my own view is well northbound. but the north bay rights look great and is completely cleared out there. the bigger drive is easier than any other day this week the center lanes are still backed up towards grand avenue but the other lane to have no delays at all. the cemetery ridge is back to normal at 11 minute rout time syrian this like traffic on both sides of the golden gate bridge. >>: happening this morning we should learn more about how the public feels about the new birch trains their meeting right now about the and possible new fleet. and they're also voting the key design choices as well as authorizing with the fair will be for new the new art. visibility at advocates are upset about what the barriers are for access. 948 red now the world cup kids often just a few hours. the demonstrators the door in the same police using reckon the four protesters. things are getting pretty crazy there was is servants a short hours of go the police and the, the up and arrested one person the processors are start moving and the police ended up shooting teargas. >>: eric and come back up now adjutancy they did they shot the teargas this is obviously getting very tense place said the third and keep a perimeter of the least , not to get much coal to than that. a long time and the to to read back to the story when a los canvassers in her a piece of cancer from the tear gas hit her and she still stood there in the report prepared by everybody's they're ready to us do the training and everything and sarah are run a stranger as well. president george walker bush turned 90 today what better way to celebrate the skydiving. he is again coming a tradition for the 4 90th birthday. he said it fully committed to the jump today and the spokesperson same that sellers are bush. --barbra bush . all across america, people a using lysol in hundreds of way what's christine's story? i started using lyso disinfectant spray, gosh, as long as i can remember. i use lysol on soft surfaces because you can't put your couch in the washing machine. i think that lysol disinfectant spray compares to other products in that it actually kills the germs. which helps keep my family healthy. it's tried and true. i mean all you have to do is just spray. it does the job for you. lysol - hundreds of ways to he protect your family. >> announcer: today on "dr. phil." he blames his mother-in-law. >> dr. phil: did you tell her not to put the name on the birth certificate? >> announcer: for destroying his family. >> you're lying on tv. >> you're the liar. >> dr. phil: i'm getting ready to turn you in to child protective services. >> announcer: and he had an affair. >> dr. phil: no adrenaline rush. >> he made time to sleep with my friend. >> dr. phil: how is your adrenaline running right now? >> dr. phil: let's do it. >> have a good show, everybody. here we go. >> dr. phil: i hate to see people suffering. you've hurt long enough. >> stand by, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: i'm going to get you the help you need. this is going to be a changing day in your life. >> go, dr. phil! [cheers & applause] >> dr. phil: hey, guys.
funds, equity markets open a little bit lower. we have had german confidence numbers, the gfk confidence numbers the highest since 2006. no risers in germany. on the dying side. and moremore defensive cyclical plays coming under a little bit of pressure. let's check in with the companies we are keeping an eye on over the opening session. we have some headlines in reference. tdf, where the french government, they are placing about 3% of gdf throughout. they are selling part of their holding there, about 3% so they can fund the purchase of 20% ofalstrom. it is pricing at the bottom of the range, around 20. 20.18. pharmaceuticals, what does it take to get a deal done? .hey have been rejected 51 pounds would be the appropriate price to get it done. 3 billion pounds more than currently offered. /4.re up 1 tesco is going to go to their atm. your strategy, your stock at a ten-year low. keeping an eye on currencies. the aussie-dollar. the great debate will be whether australia cuts rates or not. a number of us have done a research and it comes out that the commonwealth bank -- credit suisse says the indication of the odds of a rate cut are turning necessary. goldman sachs would argue against that. the bank of england is at an unimpressive, or an unreliable boyfriend or flip-flopping, saying one thing and doing another. the view from the markets is sell dollar-sterling at one dollar 70. it is not my view. citigroup bosh. >> let's get back to the white house plan with written on ukraine and the possible sanctions it could mean for russia. ryan chilcote has the details. >> the u.s. is preparing sanctions that would target the technology used in the gas and oil industry. this would effectively be a transfer of technology control where the u.s. government would have the power to review the transfer of that kind of technology on a case-by-case basis and if they wanted to disallow it, they could do that. this is something that they are looking at. they have not actually implemented it just yet. meanwhile, we have u.s. business groups saying they will put ads in american papers and the new york times, wall street journal, and here in the u.k. tomorrow arguing against sanctions. it is coming from the national association of manufacturers, from the american chamber of commerce saying that more sanctions, more u.s. sanctions against russia will cause -- cost american jobs and will lead to those jobs being seated to other countries who are not implement exemptions. >> what does this mean for its relationship with others in the story? will we see the u.s. going it alone on sanctions? >> interesting. we were briefed on u.s. preparations by three obama administration officials, two of which say they may go it alone. we know the ee you has a meeting on friday. the foreign ministers are meeting today. we just heard from william hayes, the foreign secretary of the night of -- united kingdom. why he says the eu peart -- the u.k. welcomes boudin's words, they want to see action. they want to see them rescind the authorization the use of force in ukraine. he is signaling that he is not overtly planning on using russian troops in ukraine. concerns remain in the western putin isd u.s. that operating stealthily in ukraine by allowing the transfer of weapons along the russian-ukrainian border, by training separatists. there is going to be a debate. we know angela merkel in an interview said she would like to see more sanctions but i think this is one of those cases where you have the u.s. at first. perhaps we will see some sanctions going into the eu friday meeting and we will have to watch very carefully because as always, it is difficult to get consensus when you have as many as more than two dozen countries in the process but there does appear to be the momentum for at least some kind of action. >> thank you. ryan chilcote on the latest on ukraine and russia. of -- capital.ad thank you for coming in. if equity investors were looking for reasons to be nervous about strong run-up in equity markets that we have seen over recent years, there are plenty out there, aren't there? geopolitical tensions, whether it is in iraq or in ukraine, they exist. they could be something that the markets worry about and yet the markets are focused on what central banks are doing. as a result, many such as yourself are still buying into this equity strategy. >> yes. one of the themes markets has been low volatility. if you send a message ecb 47 straight days of less than 1% movement in the market. if they're looking for a world strike in my company political events you mentioned. the overriding theme is what central banks are saying. they had a bad first quarter and the u.s. gdp is probably going to put that into picture once again when we get a number. bonds ine high yield bond inthe high-yield the euro zone is less than the yield you get on the u.s. -- euro stoxx 50. they're not going -- they are going to buy into equities. >> i was looking for a slow melt for the summer? >> i think so. there is no other trade at the time at the market. we still have to believe in ecb. it has the back of the european market. i think we are hearing from the fed is very positive. even last night they said that the fair trade height in mid-2015 will not be a surprise. my personal view is that inflation numbers are catching up even though it is not reported great it is more because the qa numbers are bad so people are forgetting the inflection -- inflation report. >> manish, stay with us. here is what is coming up on "on the move." the u.k. independence party is coming a jean-claude juncker residential appointment. more on that debate later. prosecutors say that news corp. faces possible corporate charges related to phone hacking and bribery. more on those next. ♪ >> i am anna edwards. this is "on the move." investors are digesting comments from japan's prime minister shinzo abe. in an exclusive interview with bloomberg, he declares an end to the deflation that has crippled japan's economic growth over the last 15 years. getting out of the relation has been the great theme of the abe administration over the last year and a half. through bold monetary policy, flexible fiscal policy, and the growth reggie, we have wished a stage where there is no deflation. at the same time, we raise the consumption tax by three percentage points to 8% in april to in order to improve. there was no other way to achieve and escape deflation at the same time as restoring fiscal health. while overcoming this in april, we wanted to make sure we did not trigger a red light on progress towards overcoming deflation. this was an extremely difficult time for management of the economy. i believe we were somehow able to overcome it. we have set a goal of achieving stable inflation of 2% as soon as possible and we want to achieve fiscal health by escaping from deflation and achieving economic growth. >> this week as the administration unveiled the so-called third air of -- era of -- and something on tourism. what did you make of the third era? t of thenk i a lo news leaked out and it would that -- it was not news to us. tois coming down from 35% 30% then it will be a positive. the important thing about the changes on corporate governance. we had the first reforms in the early part of 2000 and that was more than about prioritization. when you talk about employment reforms, these are big reforms that we are talking about to get independent numbers on the board. by way of comparison, they have done equity for japanese business stock is 8% compared to the 15% in the u.s.. they had eight independent director with corporate governance. i am very positive. -- and weporate taxes see all these u.s. companies trying to shop around the world to get lower rates. let's talk about the u.k. little bit. we had the mark carney -- mark carney testifying yesterday. did he seem like a dove, a talk? >> i think he is trying to muddy the water. yes to run a very straight part because he cannot spook the market. >> is he trying to bring volatility back to markets? >> probably. central banks have been the game of inflation. i think that he is trying to muddy the water. this, to about unreliable boyfriend, making the news, but i think people are anxious about that first day and interest rising. the big story is getting into play, which is more important rather than the first instance of red rising. i don't think he is going to risk the growth and probably he will drive very stiff line. >> we were having a chat about lack of wage growth whether you look at the u.k. or u.s.. we spoke to -- earlier on who was telling us that part of the problem with forward guidance is that they put all the eggs in the basket of the unemployment rate. unemployment rate came down but wages did not increase. that seems to be persistent. >> if you look at u.s. data, the is worth of household debt anyone trillion dollars. but you are not seeing a rise in consumption. this is down to a recent survey where they talked about consumers and what would make them consume more. almost half of them said an increase in wages and 20% said increase in -- an job prospector it that is two thirds of what would make them consume more. i think that is key about where the inflation numbers are going to come from. we look at the number in the u.s., it is more than the headline in the weekly wage growth and that is more important than anything else. >> the whole debate around income inequality, wealth inequality has become topical. corporate earnings in the u.s. and second quarter will kick off next month. what you expect -- do you expect? >> i think we might have a slight disappointment in the corporate earnings because market expects a lot. we do not know how the next number is owing to come out or what the fed is going to say. i think liquidity will be a slow burn up because that is the only game in town as of now. if i am looking at bond markets, the u.s. high-yield offer better opportunity because the other whenyield has less than 4% the u.s. high-yield is 5.5%. >> thank you very much for joining us today. manish joining us from cross ridge capital. faces possible corporate charges related to phone hacking and bribery. this is according to prosecutors during the eight-month trial that led to the guilty verdict for andy kaufman. he is the former "news of the world" editor. here with more is ryan chilcote. >> two things that are worth watching out for. one, rupert murdoch himself may be interviewed by the police in the u.k. as a suspect. that is according to "the guardian." prosecutors may pursue news corp. charges against news corp. itself. that would be a corporate case against news corp. itself. that revelation is not particularly new. it came out during the eight-month trial that we had been witnessing that ended yesterday. in the u.k., they have rules about how to report on trials as to not prejudice the jurors and make sure the defendants get a fair trial. reporters were actually banned from sharing that with the arrow public because the jurors had not heard it until yesterday. we do know that during the trial , on at least a couple of occasions, prosecutors suggested to the judge that they may pursue news corp. itself. the jurors decisions were received yesterday. rebekah brooks not guilty on all counts. guilty ofn found phone hacking and the jurors are deliberating on the charge of bribery. no word on when they will make up their minds on that. >> what is the likely outcome would? -- outcome of corporate charges? ? have this we conviction of andy colson on the charge of phone hacking, analysts say it is that much more likely that the prosecutors will now pursue a case against news corp. itself. that of course is up to the prosecutors. what we do know, and this is getting ahead of ourselves, is if there is a successful prosecution of news corp., and we are not even there yet. the prosecutors have not initiated that case, that could going tohe prosecutors the board of news corp., the so-called controlling officers that would have been in charge of the kind of wrongdoing that ,ook place at the u.k. tabloid that those people are pursued. that is where this might be going. news corp. has said we recognize that there has been long doing -- wrongdoing. we have been cooperating with the police. we have paid compensation to the victims and we have changed our business to make sure that things like that do not happen again. anna? >> ryan chilcote with the latest on news corp.. coming up, if you are in the u.k. you should note that we will bring you prime minister's questions from parliament later on today. he is said to be grilled over his former meteor -- media advisor andy colson after the hacking scandal. that is at noon in london. ceo'st, speaking out on skyrocketing compensation. ♪ >> welcome back to and add -- welcome back to "on the move." i am anna edwards. >> they may have to raise their bid about 30 billion pounds to -- 30 million pounds to get shire. was rejected on previous attempts to take over the dublin-based drug company. it is part of a government plan to raise funds to purchase a stake inalstrom. with themiliar offering say it is priced at the bottom of guidance at over 20,000 share. haveche bank is said to lost about 26 junior bakers in hong kong open left four months. that is the largest number of the partners in asia for five years. management chain has been shrinking. it is atm season and shareholders focus on executive pay at some of the biggest coveney's. tesco faces shareholder results. joining us to put this into context is gregory elders. kick things off with wpp and why the big concern over the pay packet? >> last year he was up 70% from the year before to 30 million euros. it is the third year in a row we have had the highest pay among ftse 100 countries. two years ago, shareholders voted it down as part of the shareholder uprising. there is continued concern. there was reform but the thing that is happening now is an additional votes on forward a policy -- pay policy. shareholders will get to vote on his potential annual bonus of four times they salary and at long-term, 10 times they celebrated what they are paying out a deal that was five years. could we see shareholders objecting years into the future? >> laster it was only 20% of shareholders who voted against it. it was only 20% of shareholders voted against it. they need to let the company know that they expect returns to -- >> you mentioned the shareholder spring two years ago. what have the impacts of that been? we have seen changing regulation in the u.k. >> one of the big things that change is that companies have to have fuller pay policies. what we have seen is that no companies have been voted down. either on their pay report or the lower pay policy. it is having an impact on ceo pay. we have seen in the u.s. and australia that shareholders have been more active as a result. packages are coming down. were you have shareholders less than 90% approval, on average pay packages come down. >> these are now not just advisory votes by shareholders? >> exactly. the pay all as he is a mandatory. it shareholders voted down, the company has to do something. >> way from the banking sector, this is a topical story. we have seen issues around other big banks and now rpx is in focus. >> it is a different case there. majority owned by the u.k. government since the bailout and the government said a few months ago they would not support raising the bank or bonus caps. from one time base pay. revolts at barclays earlier this year as well as hb -- hsbc. shareholders were unhappy. a thought of wanted to make sure banker pay is not out of line. >> quite an active it -- activist shareholder. thank you for that conversation. coming up on the program, the younger debate -- juncker debate rages on. in the meantime, you can follow me on twitter. it is 8:26 year in london. we will be back after a short break. we will give you a quick picture of the markets as we go to break. things will be weaker. some of the geopolitical tension we have been talking about over the last couple of days. taking a toll on the market. we will be back. ♪ >> welcome back to "on the move ." i am anna edwards. we are 30 minutes into the trading day. let's see how things are shaking up in the equity markets. things looking weaker this morning. that slow melt of equities we heard referred to at the beginning of the program. manus cranny is at the touch screen with three stocks to watch rate of >> let's check in on some of the big movers. this is the french energy company where the government has 3%eady begun to try to sell of their stake in gbs because they want to get funded to buy alstrom. the pricing is at the lower end of the target range. great measureso of cement and aggregates come up what else can you talk about? we have a dime great coming through on market performance synectics.ynnex x -- if you want to understand what on a small effect company, they make oil and gas products. the waiting and seeing gain in iraq, waiting for three or four major contracts, is going to hit the tune of 7ts to b million pounds for a great representation of the reality of the impasse in iraq. back to you. >> these are headlines this hour. the u.s. is said to be preparing sanctions aimed at specific areas of the russian economy, including energy and technology. people familiar with the lurches safety eu may not agree to this next phase of sanctions. two of the largest u.s. business groups are preparing to break ranks with the obama administration over further penalties on russia, citing potential damage to u.s. companies. ukraine's president is calling for immediate talks with leaders of russia, germany, and france after pro-russian rebels shot down a government helicopter in violation of a cease-fire. president petro poroshenko said ukraine will and its weeklong cruise earlier separatists continue to attack government forces. military advisers have begun operating in iraq. they will gather intelligence and start a operation center in iraq. 300 troops we sent to help the iraq the government combat a growing islamic insurgency. jean-claude juncker says he is confident eu. leaders -- eu leaders will pick him. his candidacy is on the agenda summit.week's let's bring in hans nichols who is in berlin. >> confident indian. he may even ash confident indeed -- confident indeed get. i asked him if he thought he had the vote. he had a one-word answer. >> can you give a sense of how confident you are? any other leaders other than you? do you have this in the back? >> yes. >> absolutely, you're going to the next -- >> the decision is not mine, but everything is indicating that when the decision is made next friday, i guess. >> i know you like a good summit. with tension. when eu leaders meet later this week, he will be on the agenda. he expects to be elected. david cameron looks increasingly isolated on this and some of his domestic opponents are almost taunting him. listen what nigel frosch had to say when he talked about juncker being the perfect man. >> is perfect for the eurosceptics. he is our man. he absolutely refuses to believe that the public really have a proper understanding of the grand european project. he belongs to that very outdated school of eu thinking. aware ofr seem to be the challenge ahead of him. he did mention that the stability pact will not be offered. there is a policy site to this equation. younger may not have that much -- juncker may not have that much room to move because there is controversy about his likely appointment that the president of the commission. anna? >> hans nichols reporting from berlin. turning to corporate news, shares ofshire did rise as interestof abbvie's rates. they would have to raise their about 30 billion pounds for shire to bite. >> we are waiting to see what abbvie's next move will be. they made a bid that was rejected at about 46 pounds a share for shire. the shares currently trade around 44 pounds. if you talk to analysts who follow shire, the consensus seems that 51 pounds would get them over the line incontrovertibly. i don't think anyone expects it to go the way of astrazeneca where it became a political circus. you had the prime minister getting involved. shire is much less of a critical company. >> much less of a u.k. company as well. it has part of its stakes in ireland, a lot of research and relevant activity taking place in the u.s.. >> that is right. it is a plc which makes everyone think it's a u.k. company. it has administrative functions in the u.k. but it is registered in ireland and primary operations in the u.s. this is not echoing through the halls of westminster in the way astrazeneca was. this will be a financial discussion rather than a political one. >> will we were -- will we see an increase? is it likely to happen in the future? >> people say that abbvie is looking at increasing its bid. i will have an likely sooner rather than later given the momentum. under these new u.k. take over rules, they have july 18 to make something happen unless shire consents to a extension. it likely will happen in the near future. >> the race could be on to get hole whichy closing motivate some of these transatlantic deals. >> that is an interesting subject. if you speak to people on the abbvie side, they say it is not about changing the taxes. it is a deal that makes strategic sense as diversification, as getting access to shire's pipelining becomes feasible because there are tax benefits. as you rightly say, there is legislation pending in the u.s. congress that would make it much more difficult for the so-called inversion trades to occur. if that happens retroactively, which has been threatened, though who knows if that will stand up in court, that could really undermine some of these transactions that we have seen. >> thank you very much for joining us. matt campbell, bloomberg news. up next, google pulls consumers into orbit. we will bring you a preview of the developers conference and the technology right at its center. ♪ >> i am anna edwards in london. this is "on the move." the google plus developers conference kicks off in san francisco. it has been an inquisitive year and now the focus is on the future of their diverse business. here is a preview of what we can expect to come out of the event. we are joined now by lee simpson. what can we expect? it can be a bit of a nerdy affair. >> a bit? >> there is sometimes something for consumers to get excited about. >> i think the headlines are going to be on the home this year. it is the first i/o conference of the acquisition of mass. they have been busy. -- nest. they have been busy. they came out with the drop cam. we will be hearing white a lot about the home, -- quite a lot about the home, about home automation and automation of monday tasks and how we can program. the program of our lives we possible. >> you said that maybe there will be similar where you can drive into your garage in your car and suddenly your house resets 40. i don't know how that conflicted people have different rogers. let's talk about the details. will we get a new operating system, lollipop? >> almost certainly although i can feel -- i can't help but feel that the new os is going to pale into insignificance with conversations like nest. google acquired something crazy, like six robotic companies in the space of a days in the last year. lots of talking points there. we have people who are making robots for the u.s. army, the neuroscience back artificial intelligence company coming out of the u.k. i think that the acquisitions of home, fitness, and health will auto shadow -- will overshadow lollipop. strategy,isition and they can afford to be experiments and they are perhaps being in research develop -- research and develop them, and you look at their research strategy and think it is a good idea where they are trying to get ahead of trends or is this a business where did it does not know where to go? >> on the contrary, it is android everywhere. android in your home, in your pocket, in your car. in your health and well-being lifestyle. it is android everywhere. the thing that google does with all of that data is going to be the thing that is found the changing culture as we know it. for instance, with help, you can androideveryone using apps and devices. what that tells google about how we are looking after ourselves. the productivity is manifesting in their operating systems and their search systems. it feels like google can make huge contributions in those sectors with all the data is going to get. >> a venture capitalist was excited about where big meets the health sector and what value could be created, what an object knowledge it could be created around that meeting point. android tv is talked about that -- as something that could come out. has been a great success so there's probably a lot to talk about their freedom their ventures into television have been if he so there is room for improvement. there is news about that tomorrow. probably more around from cast than the -- chrome cast than the tv itself. >> what about driverless cars? i spoke to jimmy wales from wikipedia and that is what excites him the most about technology right now because humans are -- know, we will be completely transformed if driverless cars take off. i feel there is going to be a natural inertia, human inertia, around the notion of getting into a robot entrusting it to drive you places. absolutely fantastic stuff from google and their contributions to all of these sectors. >> how quickly will we actually get consumer products out of these things? android, wearable technology around the system, has been talked about for a long time. google glass, they still don't even have a prototype out of that. how often do some of these more experimental ends of the spectrum get into our hands? at driverlessok cars compared to things like wearable tech, i think wearable tech is more tensile and likely to be in our lives. it is already in our home. i have ordered my google glasses and i'm looking forward to putting them on. i don't think we are looking at the space age at all. all of these things are already in our homes and they feel very tangible, on the web. we are using android. we are part of the android ecosystem. i think it was predicted that there would be one billion users on the android ecosystem by the end of the year. if thisis is all a -- is all a battle to get us onto an ecosystem, and the companies can know all these information about this, are we going to end systems thatber of we have now, the apple and google operating system, or are we going to gravitate towards one? will we always be in a limbo with a few operating systems in existence? >> i suspect that there will always be a few but android is really dominating, 80% of the market. there will be a few players. the onus is on the other players to up their game and to create more aspects of their ecosystem for us to get into greater >> -- into. >> lea, thank you for joining us. let's bring you up to speed. samsung's chief executive officer expects second-quarter earnings to be not that good. they have slips from a record in the third quarter of 2013 as sales of its galaxy devices were squeezed by apple in the high-end market and inexpensive chinese phones in the budget sector. shares fell nearly 2% on those comments. the chairman says profit will climb at least 10% this year. the taiwanese manufacturing company is looking into data centers. shares have gained back -- shares ofhon haj have gained back 20% this year. telefonica agreed to sell network capacity to the german carrier drilisch. telefonica is murdering -- is merging its german unit with drilisch and this is an attempt to win antitrust protection from the european commission. we are also watching iliad. it was founded by france's sixth richest person. the billionaire has what many may consider an inauspicious start. here is rob lafranco greater he is worth over $10 billion? rob, good to see you. where did this money come from? >> telecom and shaking up the system. who saw thatal guy the french telecom industry was kind of dinosauric and he stepped into the market and undercut half of the prizes that the telecom countries were charging for triple play services, broadband, phone access, mobile, and he did it for triple play services existed in the united states. it is a very un-french story. he rocked in their and upset the market completely. >> he changed the rules. he is the 124th richest person in the world. what sets them apart from others on the rich list? >> it is this bad boy attitude. he dropped out of school. his first business was writing code for all minded sex chat sites. he owned a some peach shows in paris and got into trouble and had to pay fines for alleged prostitution charges, but never was actually charged with those. he paid fines and all of that. he has been bucking the system since he was a teenager. most of the french fortunes tend to be established family fortunes. >> going against the grain a little bit. what is he doing out at someday might push them further up the ranking? >> what he is aspiring to is to create an entrepreneurial culture in france for technology. he has a team of ventures fund. it is very nominal into her mother's net worth, but he funds two companies a week. year ineetings every his office in paris. he is basically trying to create seed capital and an environment of tech entrepreneurism in paris that is nascent right now. >> he is building a school in paris for computer programming. >> exactly. it is free, i think. to get in. test it is a logic test. if you have -- he wants to inspire the new google guys of paris, if you will. >> thank you very much for joining us, bringing us up to speed on france's sixth richest person. "the pulse" is coming up an old olivia sterns joins us with a look at what is coming up. to have a panel debating the pros and cons about whether jean-claude juncker presidency of the european commission at me for britain and what it could mean for british business. david cameron, the british pm has stuck his neck out opposing be but some say it might clinically savvy, britain is becoming increasingly isolated. we will break down what that means and also what britain leaving bea could mean for the u.k. and european business. we will also be discussing go pro. you know those little cameras that everyone seems to be strapping onto their helmets and heads. they are going to price tonight before they start trading in an ipo tomorrow morning. in new york, we will be discussing how on earth the company thinks they could be worth $3 billion and whether it makes sense to be valuing a hardware maker, a camera device company, as a media company. finally we will go big on iberia. we have a ceo of a spanish utility, you -- utility company coming on. we'll talk about how his business is impacted and the cfo of portugal's postal company which went public last year. about how business is going in portugal. all of that coming up in about 10 minutes. >> just the way you were talking about go pro, we showed pictures of someone on a bicycle jumping that bicycle on top of the post box which i'm sure your postal guest would be rather upset about. sure there are rules against that sort of thing in the u.k. maybe not. i'm sure that video will feature further as we go through "the poles." after a struggle with the french government, the ceo of ge and alstrom are celebrating their new relationship. that story is up next. ♪ >> welcome back to "on the move ." i am anna edwards. the second worst performer on the stoxx europe this morning. france is selling a 1.5 billion euro stake in gdf. france says it is priced at the lower end of guidance. it will use that to buy a stake in ahlstrom -- alstrom. france will by as much as 20% of alstrom. to celebrate the ge-alstrom deal, the two ceo's met and eight factory in france. >> this is where the ge and alstrom alliance shows its full potential. thethe past few decades, city has been home to factories of both companies. the employees of ge and alstrom even eat at the same cafeteria. alstrom makes turbines for nuclear reactors. ge and alstrom have facilities right next to each other. turbinege's gap -- gas facility. making -- manys of the ge employees you a work or -- used to work for alstrom. when the ceos paid a visit, it is like going back in time. >> it will be a key part of this alliance from a technology standpoint, from a manufacturing standpoint. together we will build a very growth-oriented, competitive business. >> this is where things can change, and the turbine section, which makes the world's biggest turbine for nuclear reactors. it will become a joint venture with ge. for the alstrom ceo, it means the end of a long struggle with the french government. now he wants to move to the next step -- getting the unions on board and final approval from shareholders. >> stay with bloomberg television. guy johnson and olivia sterns are up next with "the poles." ♪ . . >> sanctioned showdown. the u.s. prepares penalties. >> in the bag. why he says he will be the president of the european commission by the end of this week. >> extreme ipo. a wearable camera maker. a $3 billion valuation. ♪ >> good morning. you are watching the polls.
then. >> there's also a sweeping new york times investigation outlining how president trump spent weeks ignoring or resisting warnings about coronavirus. this morning, we'll tell you where the virus has already peaked and where experts believe it is he haded next. >> the debate to reopen parts of the country and how. dr. fauci suggests it could happen at early as next month on a rolling basis guided by risk assessments by governors and mayors. the governors in new york, new jersey and maryland stress their priority is public health. we have more breaking this morning. a deadly outbreak of tornadoes across the united states last night. at least 13 people killed, hundreds of thousands without power. more on that in a moment. let's begin our coverage on the coronavirus with cnn's chief medical correspond depth, dr. sanjay gupta. good morning. i like to get an assessment of where we are in the country on mondays. because the models that we've been relying on, particularly the university of washington one, shows that this weekend the virus peaked in new york it sounds like. so you tell us, does that mean we might be on the other side of that peak and in terms of other places, it has -- i'm looking for where it has apparently still going to peak in a couple of days in california on april 15th and then at the end of the month, all the way until the end of the month, florida, that's when the deaths would peak and the hospitalizations. not until april 27th. so i mean, obviously, we're still a long way from breathing a sigh relief, but we're starting to have the conversations about what that would look like. >> yeah. i think it's reasonable to have the conversations. the thing about the term peak, i was talking to public health epidemiologists about this over the weekend. on one hand, a peak, two people who look at a curve, say that's a peak, it's a day or two days and sort of coming down. but at the same time, as you know, alisyn, we've talked about flattening the curve, which in some ways if you envision that, means the peak is much more spread out. that could mean that we have several days of numbers that are still sort of bouncing around the same relative number before you start to see the downward slope. we don't know yet. we have to see what happens in new york. everybody wants to see the numbers continue to come down. there's evidence of that. because hospitalization rates are have come down. then within a few days, a week, two weeks after that, you should see deaths start to come down as well. it's these trends that we still need to look for. we look at other countries that had bouncing around of numbers. even after they've gotten to the peak. that's where we should be going, alisyn. i think this week -- new york will be a good sort of thing to look at for the rest of the country. in new york, this week will be the best data. >> "the new york times" put out a report outlining at several different incidences, the president was warned and chose to either ignore or disagree with recommendations about the spread of coronavirus. over the weekend, dr. anthony fauci said something which is obvious and should be noncontroversial. if the united states had taken mitigation actions sooner, more lives could have been saved. we woke up this morning, sanjay, to a tweet from the president, a message on social media, he was highlighting it, retweeting, as we say, with the #fire fauci. you, as someone deeply concerned about public health, what are your feelings when you see the president highlight that type of message? >> well, that's concerning, obviously. i do talk to dr. fauci on a regular basis. i did not speak to him after this happened. one thing i will say is that dr. fauci, obviously, a lot of people in the country have gotten to know him over the past few months. people within the public health world, especially within government public service, have known him for 40 years. he's got a pretty unique position and unique stature there. there isn't a team of people like fauci. fauci is sort of an individual who holds that stature. i mean, there's people who, like ambassador birx, who is well-regarded also. just got to say, he's clearly the person who has been leading the charge and been "out front" on this. anything can happen, i guess, john. i don't know if that was sort of a reactionary retweet or what or if it means something more. it's always hard to tell. it would be a huge loss. everybody recognizes that in the country right now. the ten tackles of knowledge he has and the context he can give to see around corners with regard to where this is going to go, it's pretty invaluable now. most people inside and outside the administration recognize that. >> one more thing on the dr. fauci thing. as i hear that sound bite, he's saying we. he's not casting blame on anyone else. he's saying had we started sooner. i know the right wing media is trying to make him some sort of fall guy because back on january 21st, he didn't sound the alarm. but he's saying we. like john said, it's not controversial to say if we all started sooner, things would be different. >> absolutely. he's using the collective we. it was earlier when he was giving testimony and he talked about the testing at that point and he said, look, that was a failing. i can't remember the exact quote. but there's no two ways about it. that was a failing. to me, at that point, that was a much stronger statement. something that i thought might really ruffle some feathers within the administration, within cdc, within other organizations. that really didn't seem to cause a ripple effect here. this seems less, to your point x alisyn, of an infraction if you want to call it that than the statement from before. if i can, alisyn, because you bring up this timeline, i saw your interview with "the new york times" reporters earlier. we've been sort of looking at time lines from a medical standpoint to overlay what's happening at the white house. if we can take a peek at that. december 31st, 2019, that was when the w.h.o. first informed of this pneumonia cluster of unknown cases. now, as we know, alisyn, we talked about this last week, it was probably earlier than that that they knew. maybe even a month earlier that china knew it was an unusual pneumonia cluster. but it was january 7th they identified the novel coronavirus. but there's two dates. i really want you to keep in mind. i think people will look back on these dates. january 30th and 31st. january 30th, new england journal of medicine publishes a paper that there is asymptomatic transmission. that was in kmien. on january 31st, the cdc announces there's human to human transmission in the united states. here's why i bring it up. up until that point, there was still a question among many in the public health community, look, is this going to be another sars, which was terrible, but it was 8,000 people around the world, around 800 deaths. bad disease, but never really spread that far. or h1n1 which spread very, very far but ended up being not that lethal. what was this going to be? i think up until the end of january, sort of early february when these papers came out, it was sort of like we don't know. it's a novel coronavirus. we've had other examples of these sorts of viruses. who knows where this is going to go exactly. when the human to human, asymptomatic transmissions came out, that was it. everybody was already worried. but those were the markers. you can start to overlay those on the markers that you guys are talking about in terms of what was happening with the response of that time. >> you know who knew about the markers? people within the public health community and people within the government health community, including hhs. we have the emails in in new york times article. i want you to pull up p-13 if you can guys in the control room. p-13. this is an email from robert kaldec. he is he's talking about one of the studies. about asymptomatic transmission. he writes, eva, is this true? if so, we have a huge hole in our screening and quarantine efforts. this is february 23rd. with someone at hhs saying holy cow, if this is asymptomatic we're in big trouble. this is a major alarm bell, sanjay. >> it is a huge alarm bell, no question. what struck me -- so that's february 23rd. new england journal of medicine publishes january 30th, three weeks earlier, this is likely in china. but it was interesting to me to go back and reflect after three months. that's what i spent the weekend doing. who knew what when? even though there was a paper published that showed this asymptomatic in china. there was still a question, that happened in china. is that really going to happen here as well? sars happened in china. we learned about it late. china was not transparent about it. was very opaque. are they being opaque here as well? is what's happening there going to happen here? there was no reason to suggest it wouldn't. a virus is a virus. it doesn't behave differently in one country versus another. on january 30th, there was evidence of asymptomatic transmission. kad kadlec. wrote it. he wanted to say holy smokes, this is happening and is it happening here in the states as well? because that means it's just going to exponentially grow without question. >> i think that's really helpful, sanjay. i appreciate you going back and helping us with this timeline. it is all the fog of war. we've talked about t the fog of war. people in the middle of it couldn't figure out what was happening. but it's helpful as it informs now that we know so much more about it regarding what we do now for the next month. obviously, that's the big question. we really appreciate you helping us retrace our steps. >> at least 13 people are dead after a series of tornados swept through the southeast overnight. dozens of tornadoes reported. nearly one million people without power. chad myers tracking it all. he joins us with the latest. chad, what are you seeing? >> john, dozens of reports, as you said yesterday. probably over five dozen. for now, many of them are for the same tornadoes looking from a different direction. we're going to go with a number 40. 40 independent tornadoes on the ground yesterday. there are still tornadoes on the ground right now. in south carolina, they were just hit by a tornado on the ground. we know that because there was debris on the radar. not raindrops, not hail. but things that were picked up from the ground, hopefully leaves. but more likely something more sinister than that. some reveal, you are next in line for that as well. let me get to the radar. here it goes from raleigh, farther north than that. almost to blacksburg to tallahassee, still under the gun for severe weather right now. there's the weather moving to the north of charleston. that is the walterboro tornado, the purple square you saw there. the watches continue from virginia to florida. here's what it's going to look like. this is the 8:00 hour, the 9:00 hour. around 9:30. we'll swing up to the north. there will be gusts in new york city and boston, over 70 miles per hour. that will bring down trees for sure in that entire northeast corridor there. i-95, all the way through. richmond, raleigh, down to wilmington and charleston, you are still in this threat. we do know that tornadoes will be on the ground and they are quick. they are on the ground for just a few minutes. but if that minute is over your house, it's a significant tornado. this is going to go on for the next few hours before the storms move offshore. >> thank you very much. at the moment, search and rescue teams are trying to get to victims near the chattanooga area. that's where at least 14 patients have already been transported to hospitals. joining us now is the public information officer in tennessee. amy maxwell. thank you so much for joining us. what's the situation in chattanooga on the ground there? >> we're currently about ready to wrap up search and rescue efforts. hopefully the daylight is going to help. confirm the last amount of structures that we're trying to search. currently, the emergency operations center reported that we have 110 collapsed structures. that would be homes and businesses are a total loss. we actually, the 911 center took over 1300 911 calls. 500 of the calls were regarding collapsed structures. either in their homes, trees on their homes or trees on their cars. and currently we're still assessing at least over 550 calls still pending. >> wow. those are big numbers. so when you say that the search and rescue operations are either underway or trying to wrap up, of those 110 structures that collapsed that you know about, are you certain that nobody is still in them? >> that's what we've been reported is they were totally searched with professional rescue and tactic services. they went in for our urban search and rescue units. we have at least 500 other crews out there doing a grid search of every single subdivision and area that was affected. this area was pretty concentrated. so we were able to get into the subdivisions quickly. and then we were able to account for a lot of the -- pretty much everybody that was in the residences. everybody was home. this actually struck our area about 11:30 last night. so everybody was pretty much home. especially since we're still at a shelter in place for covid-19. >> yeah. >> yeah. we've had to -- you know, we've had some struggles. we've had a lot of debris on the roads. it was hard for these first responders to get in. but we had the help of public works to allow these people to get through to save lives. >> what a tremendous herculean response from the first responders there. of the 14 people who were transported to hospitals, do you know their condition or what their -- which injuries they're suffering from mostly? >> no. i just have been told by ems, the command here that we had 14 transported to the hospital weather-related injuries, severe weather-related injuries. >> okay. amy maxwell -- >> the national weather service will be here to confirm what size of tornado hit the chattanooga area last night. >> let us know as soon as you get information like that. we really appreciate you taking time to fill us in on the chattanooga area in hamilton county. thank you very much. >> thank you. now back to coronavirus. chicago has been particularly hit hard. what is the status there? what's happening with hospitals? the racial disparities exposed by this. wow! that's ensure max protein, with high protein and 1 gram sugar. it's a sit-up, banana! bend at the waist! i'm tryin'! keep it up. you'll get there. whoa-hoa-hoa! 30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. ensure max protein. i'm a talking dog. the other issue. oh... i'm scratching like crazy. you've got some allergic itch with skin inflammation. apoquel can work on that itch in as little as 4 hours, whether it's a new or chronic problem. and apoquel's treated over 7 million dogs. nice. and... the talking dog thing? 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our brand-new service that lets you watch all the latest movie releases from the comfort of home. trolls world tour available now. i will protect you no matter what, pinky promise. just say xfinity movie premiere into your voice remote to bring the theater to you. this morning, new questions about dr. anthony fauci's future in the white house coronavirus task force. overnight, the president retweeted a message which explicitly called for dr. fauci's firing. it comes after dr. fauci told cnn that if the trump administration had acted earlier to mitigate the spread of coronavirus, it might have saved lives. joining me now, democratic congressman lauren underwood of illinois. congresswoman, thank you very much for being with us this morning. we should note, you have experience in the medical field as a nurse and hhs official. you come at this from many different angles. as you wake up this morning to see the president retweeting this message, #fire fauci, what's your reaction to that? >> well, it's certainly disappointing. dr. fauci has become a trusted health care voice among the american people in a time of a pandemic. i hope that his counsel is still warmly received at the white hou hou house. dr. fauci has continued to warn us of the spread the covid-19 -- offering common sense approaches for each of us to step forward and take action and protect ourselves and our families and communities. most notably to stay home. you know, i hate to see this kind of bullying happening. >> so as we sit here this morning, the big question is what to do next. how should the country address the future of the stay-at-home orders. you look at this as an elected official, as someone with medical experience and administration experience. how do you see things this morning? >> well, we have to get a handle on this virus. this whole notion of reopening the economy and going back to work, i see very much as something we can certainly plan for. but united states hasn't hit the peak in terms of number of cases yet. we certainly are seeing our mitigation efforts being very successful here in illinois. but we're seeing disparities. a lot about the virus that we don't know because we haven't seen the widespread deployment of tests yet and certainly ongoing challenges in distributing personal protective equipment. we don't have a vaccine yet. all these other things. so i think that we obviously want to return back to normal. a lot of folks are feeling cabin fever. this is a real economic disruption that a lot of households are facing. however, this is not the time to turn away from the strategies that have proven to save lives so far. >> dr. fauci did say over the weekend that he could see some places opening up as soon as sometime in the month of may. so how do you feel about targeted reopenings of some parts of the country and some parts of the economy? >> i think it's really important, to again, listen to the fine print and the tips the health care officials offer. to the fact of how to reduce community spread. if the modeling and the evidence shows that it's appropriate upon guidance from the cdc and other health care professionals, the leading scientists, like dr. fauci, i think it's certainly appropriate for our governors and our mayors to consider. but in the absence of that, certainly plans are important but let's not send mixed messages to the american people. >> you said two interesting things that are the same thing. what the governors and mayors will do. it's worth noting. they will be the ones who actually do the opening and lifting of the orders. >> that's right. >> you brought up mixed messa messagi messaging. is there a concern or what's your concern that these public discussions from the white house briefings are different than what's going on in city halls, governments around the country? >> right now, there's a lot of the communities, like where i represent, we're on a stay-at-home orderment it's been about a month that children have been out of school, people have been home from work, a lot of folks have been laid off, people don't know when this is going to end. yet, we continue to hear of the number of increasing cases and our communities spread out into the rural communities that i represent. you know, we're closely monitoring the number of hospital beds, the number of icu beds and the like am i'm hearing from mayors about the real challenges that are facing their municipal budgets. it's hard to imagine that this is all going to magically go away in a couple of weeks. right. we know that that is not the nature of a pandemic. i think that it's really important that as we communicate with the american people, we do so grounded in the reality of what's facing each of our communities and the decisions that each and every individual makes when they decide whether to put on their masks and go to the grocery store that day. whether they want to take a walk around the block or whether they should just stay at home. what we want to continue to emphasize to people is that the best way to protect yourselves and your families right now today is to continue to stay at home, continue to wash your hands, continue to take these aggressive measures that we've been taking for the last several weeks in order to protect yourselves and your loved ones. if you're feeling sick, call your health care provider. i think we need to continue to emphasize these message so we don't see people with a false hope beginning to re-enter the economy. especially as it gets warm, right? >> right. >> people want to go outside. that's where i think it gets to be dangerous if it's premature. >> one of the things illinois highlights, a racial disparity in the victims, the people suffering from covid-19 and dying from covid-19. you can see it in the ratios in illinois. it's particularly glaring there. this is something i assure as a public health professional you have seen for a long time. but it's particularly worrisome right now in this national pandemic. what's your assessment? >> absolutely. in illinois, african americans are five times more likely to die of covid-19 and yet, we find that there are significant lags of testing in vulnerable kbhunts and communities of color. so the governor has prioritized extending testing and not relying on individuals to come in, but partnering with community organizations to make sure that they are out in the community and doing these kinds of health care assessments so that if there is widespread illness between now, based on the death there likely is, they can have an opportunity to be monitored and treated. it's important to have targeted, focused, aggressive tactics toward the communities of color to make sure we have a clear understanding of the way that the disease is being spread and the volume of people that are being impacted. we can't just rely on people to come into a health care system where there might be mistrust or literally inaccessible and expect that the outcomes are going to be positive. >> congresswoman lauren underwood, we appreciate the discussion. we look forward to a time where we can talk to you in person. >> thank you very much. thousands of people lined up over the weekend at really probably one of the last places they expected to be a few weeks ago. a food bank. we're going to speak to two people who were there, next. first to put others' lives before your own. and in an emergency, you need a network that puts you first. that connects you to technology and each other. that's built with and for first responders. firstnet. the only officially authorized wireless network for first responders. because putting you first is our job. it means being there for each other. that's why state farm is announcing the good neighbor relief program we know our customers are driving less, which means fewer accidents. so state farm is returning $2 billion dollars to auto policyholders for the period ending may 31st. and we'll continue making real time decisions to best serve you - our customers. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there. from anyone else. so why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms which most pills don't. get all-in-one allergy relief for 24 hours, with flonase. millions of americans turning to food banks to feed their families during this pandemic. one example is the san antonio food bank. they give out more than a million pounds of food on thursday. that is the largest single-day distribution in the 40-year history. joining us now is eric cooper. the ceo of the san antonio food bank and sharon jackson. a single mom now relying on that food bank for her family. great to see both of you thank you for joining us. eric, the thing that got my attention was this picture in the san antonio express. an aerial view of the parking lot. i mean, it's a stunning picture of cars just snaked back and forth, back and forth through this parking lot waiting for food. i know that you've been the ceo for i think 20 years. is there anything you can compare this to? have you ever seen anything like this? >> it was a sobering sight. truly, unprecedented for us. typically we feed about 60,000 people a week. in the covid-19 crisis, this has doubled to about 120,000 people a week. but it's not uncommon. as you said, this is happening in cities across america. we're a part of a national organization called feeding america. as i talk to those food banks, they're all seeing turnouts like what we saw last week. it is unprecedented. it's overwhelming. we're worried we might run out of food. >> we'll get to that in a moment. sharon, tell us about your life. as i understand it, you're 37 years old, a single mom. >> yes, ma'am. >> of two young kids. you're a daycare worker. how has your life changed in the past few weeks with fighting coronavirus? >> well, i was working, like up to 30 to 40 hours a week. now i'm down to 18 hours a week. so it's -- >> what have you told your kids about what your new situation is? >> i just told them that we're going to have to rely on each other at this moment and that we help each other out. my son don't really understand what my daughter does. >> your son, i guess, is 6 and your daughter is 15. >> yes, ma'am. >> sharon, tell us about what it's like to go to the food bank. how long do you wait? what kind of food are you able to get? >> well, i've been to two. one time i was in line for about two hours. they had gave us water, some vegetables, some goodies for the kids. >> yeah. >> cookies. >> i know that for anybody with dietary issues, as so many kids have, this is a really tough time and you're struggling with that, i think, with your son. he needs to eat particularly healthf healthfully. >> yes. because of the fact he doesn't gain weight the way that he's supposed to like other kids do. >> eric, let's talk about the demand. so are you running out of food? >> it has been incredibly difficult to really rely on philanthropy to meet this wave of need. we're lucky that last week we got a good swell of produce items and were able to get those to families. but i think the real answer to hunger is the right food and the right amount at the right time. food banks are struggling to align that. we're always in some ways rationing our food to try to meet the need, but in the covid-19 crisis, it's just having enough food. so we're really hoping for more state and federal support to come our way to be able to meet this need. educate families about the safety nets, s.n.a.p. so many stories from families, in our community, hospitality workers, a husband and wife i met, they met at the hotel where they both work. they have three beautiful children and now both of them laid off and desperate for help. so they were in that line of so many. >> eric, just how quickly it can happen. sheron is an example. you have a good job, you're providing for your family and a few weeks later, you don't have food to feed them. >> i imagine this. as cars would go by, a few yelled out my name. i thought, you know, okay. they were our volunteers. they know us from coming and serving and now are in a situation where they're in this line to get food. it breaks our heart at that families are having to wait so long. we're doing all we can to get them through and many families are holding up little signs saying thank you or making heart signs and pressing it on the glass. i loaded one car, a minivan with some of the vegetables we were giving out and along the back seat popped up three heads, three little kids that were so excited. and one sharing with their mom they were getting a gallon of milk. it breaks your heart. we want to do more, but in this covid-19 crisis, the demand is great. i think food banks across the country that are a part of feeding america could use more volunteers, more funds and definitely more food in the right varieties if we're going to nourish those struggling by the crisis. >> i know our viewers want to help. they can go online. very quickly, how long do you imagine you'll be in this situation? >> at this moment, i really don't know. i'm just going day by day. >> like so many people are. sheron, eric cooper, we appreciate you sharing your personal experience with us. we hope that people go online and help their local food banks. thank you both. >> thank you. it's also a daily struggle for doctors on the front lines in the fight against coronavirus. >> it's hard. it's hard to think that some of your patients that you diagnose today may not be here tomorrow when you come back for your shift. >> we have more of her story in her own words, next. robinhood believes now is the time to do money. without the commission fees. so, you can start investing today wherever you are - even hanging with your dog. so, what are you waiting for? download now and get your first stock on us. robinhood. petsmart has everything your pet needs delivered directly to your door. or save 10% when you buy online and pick up in store... now with curbside pickup. shop petsmart.com or download our mobile app today. this morning, hospitals in the epicenter of the pandemic in new york city are stretched to the limit rationing personal protective equipment ventilators in use, doctors and nurses trying to cope with the intense stress. what is a day in the lifelike in a new york hospital? cnn's clarissa ward joins us with one physician's story. for you, clarissa, this isn't just any physician. >> reporter: that's right, john. full disclosure, i am totally biased on this. dr. melanie malloy is one of my oldest, dearest friends. she was my roommate for four years in college. she's an extraordinary woman. she's also a frontline doctor in the emergency department at mount sinai brooklyn hospital. it is a relatively small hospital and it has been inundated since the pandemic began. take a look. >> hello. my name is dr. melanie malloy. i am an attending physician at mount sinai brooklyn in queens. i'm on my way to work. >> we've asked my old friend to show us what life is like on one day in one new york hospital. >> picking up my ppe. i'm going to get some scrubs. i'm going to get mask, face shield. everything that i need for my shift. >> for dr. malloy, this is the new normal. >> i am going to start my shift. >> the emergency room at mount sinai brooklyn hospital has been overflowing. >> i walk in here and they said everybody is intubated. it's true, actually. most of our beds are taken up by intubated patients, meaning patients who can't breathe on their own and who are on the ventilator. almost everybody is on oxygen. almost everybody is a covid patient. >> since the pandemic began more than 1200 corona cases have flooded in, pushing the hospital to 150% of its capacity. >> today, there are 43 people in the department. that's pretty much full. but i have to say it's feeling better than a couple weeks ago when we had 86 to 96 in the department, it was really tough. it was really a sad, sad week. >> in the intensive care unit, it's a similar scene. >> i just wanted to give you a guys a little look at the icu. we have a full icu. we have every patient in here on a ventilator. as you can see, it's not a huge space but it's quite full. every bed is full. i'm going to try to go to the tent. this is our fast track extension. you can see we have -- we can't test them from -- >> start register here. good morning. here is our fantastic staff. then we have separate areas for people getting treatment. >> for the doctors working around the clock to save lives, there are occasional perks. >> one of my favorite things to do is eat free food. i'm super excited because we have shake shack. what? >> moments later, it's back to work. >> so i'm waiting for my next patient to be placed in a room. this one is different because, they're mostly older people. he's in his early 20s. again, one thing we're learning is that we don't really know what somebody is going to come in with and have covid. >> have coronavirus. some people also have heart attacks at the same time. this happens. [ inaudible ] >> my day is over. well, my hospital day is over. it wasn't the worst day i've had. but it's always been draining. it's hard. it's hard to think that so many of your patients that you diagnose today might not be here tomorrow when you come back to your shift. all of it. i don't know. i'm just tired. >> for dr. malloy, the challenges don't end with her shift. the widow, she's raising three children on her own. >> it's almost 10:00 at night. on my way home i got a facetime from my youngest child who is four. i think that's the hardest part. i think that's just like being alone when i come home, knowing that my child care is going to go home. my helpers are going home and it's just me and whatever state my children are in. tonight i don't really have a lot left in me. >> the next day, dr. malloy takes a moment to talk to us. >> it's crazy what you're seeing and dealing with. have you ever experienced anything like this? >> never. you know, like even the older folks, the older doctors are like, i've never seen this before in my life. >> so one thing that i know you weren't allowed to show us is the morgue. >> there are now two large tractor-trailer trucks that are refrigerated. they are full of bodies wrapped in white plastic bags. i was told that they can hold 50 people. the one that i saw was full. >> do you not worry about getting sick? >> of course we do. of course i do. the way that we're working in the e.d., it's so -- it's the tip of coronavirus. it's literally dozens of positive patients of viral load in that place must astronomical. >> what do you wish all americans understood about what you're going through? >> i really want americans to take this seriously, to know that even if you're in an area that's not a big city, you still are in danger and we don't know who is going to get really sick. it does not spare anyone particularly. >> reporter: now at the peak, brooklyn, mt. sinai hospital brooklyn was operating at 150% of its capacity, a complete and utter nightmare. it is now operating at a definitely more manageable 110% capacity, but that is still, john, simply not sustainable in the long-term. >> the least surprising thing you have a friend saving lives but what is dr. malloy telling you about equipment and how they're set up in her hospital? >> reporter: so she's fortunate in that they do have enough ppe, and you saw that in the beginning. it has to be checked in, so that they can keep monitoring all that equipment. but there are a lot of other things that they have simply run out of, at least temporarily. she said at one point they ran out of oxygen tanks. at another point they ran out of a specific antibiotic they were usi using and at one point ran out of fentanyl, a sedative they use before people are intubated and most crucially, john, constantly running out of beds. >> clarissa ward, thank you for this report. please pass on our gratitude to your friend for all the work she's doing. alisyn? >> what a remarkable report and dr. malloy is an impressive person. we want to take a moment to remember some of the people who have died from coronavirus. mariah kryer was a nurse worked at a littleton, massachusetts, nursing home. at least ten residents of that center have also died. cryer got sick two weeks ago, passed away on friday. she was just 59 years old. william hayes is the 20th member of the new york police department to die from coronavirus. the traffic enforcement officer spent 31 years with the nypd and was an army veteran. and the new york sports world is mourning the loss of anthony causey, a beloved photographer for the "new york post" captured iconic highs and lows of the new york sports world since 1949. he was just 48 years old. he is survived by his wife, romena and children 5-year-old john and 2-year-old mia. the back page of the "new york post" this morning is a photo of clausey, camera in hand, it says "our eyes, our heart and our city's loss." we' we'll be right back. state farm is announcing the good neighbor relief program we're returning $2 billion dollars to our auto policyholders through may 31st. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there. tums ver(bell rings)la stick being a good neighbor means everything. when heartburn hits fight back fast... ...with tums chewy bites... beat heartburn fast tums chewy bites so tiger woods still gets choked up talking about his win at the masters one year ago. he says the moment with his kids and his mother was surreal. andy scholes has more in "the bleacher report." >> good morning, john. this is normally the morning where i'm standing in augusta each year talking about who won the masters but unfortunately the tournament was postponed due to the coronavirus, and with no tournament to ira, cbs instead played tiger's epic comeback victory at augusta national from last year, with tiger doing some commentary with jim nance, and tiger getting emotional when talking about that moment off the 18th green when he hugged his son, charlie, daughter sam, and his mom. >> all of us through thick and thin, to have mom still here? you know, she was there in '97, and people remember the hug with my dad, but my mom was there, and my mom is here 22 years later. with the same hug. >> to keep that green jacket a little extra time this time around, john. hopefully he'll get to defend that title when the masters hopefully takes place november 12th through the 15th. >> hopefully, fingers crossed. it will be remarkable to see it in the fall, not so much pollen there, maybe the leaves turning i guess, andy. >> yes. "new day" continues right now. >> it is not going to be a light switch. i think it's going to have to be something that is not one size fits all. >> there are discussions inside the white house under way about when they can begin to reopen the country. >> if we don't keep our mitigation and restrictions in place, we could have a spike that could be more severe than the peak was. >> the reporting that we document in the piece, the warnings were there, if the president wanted to listen to them. >> they were quite concerned from january that this was a contagious disease that would make its way to the united states. >> i think february 2020 is really going to be seared in americans' memory as a month where we really dropped the ball. >> this is "new day," with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> good morning and welcome to our viewers in the united states and all around the world. this is "new day." 22,000 americans dead and counting. a growing debate about whether it is too soon to ease restrictions on social distancing, and just as this is happening, breaking overnight, president trump publicly signaling his frustration with the man seen by some as the public health conscience of the country. the president highlighted this message overnight on social media that calls for the firing of dr. anthony fauci. it is likely no coincidence this comes after dr. fauci told cnn this. >> you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. obviously no one is going to deny that, but what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated, but you're right. i mean obviously if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different, but there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then. >> a revealing "new york times" investigation outlined how president trump spent weeks ignoring warnings about coronavirus. this morning, the number of confirmed cases has grown to more than 557,000, and again, more than 22,000 americans have lost their lives. and john, this morning the debate is of course when to reopen the country and how. dr. fauci suggests it could happen as early as next month on a rolling basis, guided by testing and risk assessments by governors, and mayors. the governors of new york, new jersey and maryland all stress their priority is public health. so we are all also watching this deadly break, outbreak of tornadoes that has hit the southeast, tearing through various states. this happened overnight, at least
do we keep economies closed indefinitely? we know we can't. we have already dug a hole so deep it might reach china. once we reopen, the curve could on flatten, that's why nobody knows the right thing to reopen, so stop pretending. dems have the luxury of doing nothing but waiting for something to go wrong especially when you have an ocean view and a fridge full of gelato. >> this is something you can get through the mail. >> okay. >> come on out and show me. >> yes, absolutely. this is the episode of "cribs" i never knew i needed. >> other people and our family go for some other flavors. but chocolate and we have some other chocolate here. >> greg: marie antoinette had cake, nancy brought the ice cream. but adults, we get it. each decision brings a wrist. but insulated dope still smear americans on their selfishness for just meeting a paycheck. patton oswalt mocked anxious gangs for cracking under the lockdown. he assumes that everybody can sit down with netflix and manning's indefinitely just like him, a well-off finger sniffing jack ass. his was not an attack on class, he said that adults would risk their lives were cheeseburgers. but it's a good day when a rich leftist shows his hatred for the working class. so as we move with more ups and downs than a kangaroo on meth. all adults know that the path we choose must be flexible. it should pull back, change course based on new info. we can do so based on age or region, but we need the government to be straight with us on tests. seriously, what is the deal with tests? we will get through this. we have so far. but sadly for you, retreating to a mansion stocked with sherbet is not in the cards. so dana, what drives me nuts about tests is that we keep being told how many we have. we are never told how many we need, and experts, and i know the doctors always hedge and condition everything, because that's what they have to do. there is nothing ever as good news, just news. so what should they say today, you are the press. let's say you are the press person, what should they say? what should pence say about the tests today so that we can say it, okay, thank you? >> dana: i want some of my weekends back. i've spent so much time reading articles about tests trying to understand and to figure it out. luckily i have not had any symptoms. i've not had a test. but i also have not been sick. but could i be an ape symptomatic carrier? i don't know. go back to january and february, we know because of testimony that dr. fauci gave in front of congress that he said the testing team has not been good enough. he said it was a failure at the time. and then you have the situation where the fda is approving some tests, not others, sometimes they work. sometimes they don't. it's unclear. the private sector wants to do it. the governor saying we want more tests. the president is saying it is irresponsibility. but we need help, okay, i will help you. but let's just focus in on this, what is the purpose of the tests? there are two types of tests? the first one is do you have coronavirus or not. and the goal of knowing that is to say if dana perino ends up having a positive test, so i have to go quarantine for two weeks, and then you should find out everyone that i've been in touch with, and those people should know, they should probably get a test, and they should probably quarantine for two weeks. it's too isolated and to stop the spread. but then there is also the antibody test. because if you are asymptomatic and actually have been had an immunity to it, should you donate plasma or go back to work? but the test is supposed to be a measure of confidence for us to be able to move forward. dr. william hayes had a report that basically said in the first round, you'll almost need 1 billion tests so that each person can be tested three times. that is the ultimate goal. that would be if we can possibly do it. but then in a second round coming in need another billion tests over the next two years while we wait for a vaccine. that's a lot of testing. but we have to understand, what are we testing for? and also when they get up there at the press briefing and they talk about how many tests we have done, for who? when, what, why, how? it is absolutely maddening. if we are supposed to have a measure of confidence from the tests, than they have to do a better job of communicating it. when the president says to the governor, it is your responsibility, the governors are saying, we agree, but we need the federal government to help us scale up. and the president says, i will help you scale up. so there is less friction between the states and the federal government on this than the media is making us think there is. but we still need better answers. >> greg: that leads me to my next question, that the cdc was not invented in 2016 when trump was elected, so apparently was there a plan for ramping up testing for a coming pandemic? or is that not possible, because you don't have the tests for an upcoming pandemic if you don't know what the virus is? so this is just the natural kind of chaos and horribleness that would happen? >> dagen: the cdc did screw up initially on the test they sent out to the state labs was faulty and had to be recalled. it was about seven weeks ago that the fda allowed private companies to manufacture test kits and put them to use without having them be approved. but now it has been a supply chain nightmare. we have labs hoarding some materials needed for testing. other labs, where the testing supplies are short, and they need them. the abbott machine has not been that effective, the one that the president showcased, that has been a problem. but you literally have a long list of components that are in short supply. i can go through the pipette tips and the glass pipettes, and those style parts, chemical agents, swabs that the president was talking about using the defense production act to do so up the supply of swabs. they need to have at least one person who is definitely an charge and directing the supply chain around the country. but not everybody is going to get tested to go back to work. you know what, americans have taken the potential deaths in this country from about 240,000 deaths down to what 60,000 deaths? close to that, just by wearing masks and social distancing and washing their hands and staying the hell away from one another. and if we trusted them to bend the curve, that we can trust them to do the same thing and get back to business, and at least reopen the economy in a small way. >> greg: you know, juan, about opening it up, it is obvious when you look at states. it cannot be one-size-fits-all. new york has 933 deaths per million. south dakota has eight per million. so obviously it is going to be kind of messy, because every state is almost an individual with different traits. >> juan: yes, that is true, i guess i would start with the fact that we are all talking about dr. fauci, and he said this very morning that we have to be careful about reopening too quickly. because then this thing could spike again and we would be back in trouble. but to your point, greg, we have a federalist system. that's why you will have the governors were the regional town packs with the neighbors in neighboring states make some rules. the problem is even with the federalist system, to pick up on your analogy, if i am in new jersey, which is a relative hot spot and decide that i'm going off to dubuque or cheyenne, which is not a relative hot spot, who knows? nobody can stop me. i am an american, right? that would introduce a theory of big problems in terms of people just doing what they want to do and saying, i have a business trip or whatever and taking -- going to see a relative, and nobody knows that they helped to spread coronavirus into an area that did not have a problem previously. right now most americans -- more than 60% according to the polls, they say, slow down. we are worried that we are going to reopen too quickly. rather than not sufficiently quickly. people are obviously suffering economically. there is horrific economic pain in our country, but right now people are so concerned that if they have to go back to work or they have to go into places that they want to be assured that they are not going to suddenly get terribly sick or possibly die. we have seen a lot of deaths. >> greg: jesse, does your dog rookie have an opinion? because i swear i heard rookie. >> jesse: yes, you heard correctly, sorry about that, americo. i'm going to beat him after th this. >> dana: no. >> jesse: sorry, dana, i'm not going to beat him, i will just kick him. [laughter] i'm not going to do anything, everybody relax. to juan's point, the guidelines address nonessential travel. if you are living in new jersey, you can't do nonessential travel in phase one. that is already addressed. and to the testing situation, i actually spent my friday night to listening to the task force. and fauci went on for minutes and minutes about the testing situation. they say listen to the experts. and the expert said, dr. fauci, we have enough tests to make it through phase one. that made me feel a lot better. he also said this, we are not going to test 350 million americans. you don't do that. you test and hot spots and the front lines, and you test people that are showing symptoms. if you test everybody in kansas, 3 million people, when they have a couple hundred cases, what's the point of that? that is a colossal waste. to say i live in kansas and i am a some dramatic and i get a test, i am negative, and then i leave the lab and shake someone's hand, now i have coronavirus. to do i get tested again? what is the point? the point is that we even have someone, a admiral in charge. being rolled out strategically, and you are going to have enough tests. i think what happens with the tests have been with the ventilators. there was a huge panic about ventilators, and it turns out there was never a ventilator shortage. no one ever went without a ventilator, and now we have access to capacity ventilators, we can give every country in the world an extra ventilator times ten. so everybody needs to relax. we are going to get through this. and it's going to be okay. and geographically, guys, they are freaking out about opening up a beach or two in jacksonville, florida, duval county. duval county, huge county has 15 coronavirus deaths. queens county in new york city has nearly 3,000. 15 deaths to 3,000 deaths. devol county is nine times the size of queens county and everybody in new york is panicking that they opened a beach in florida. they are doing things strategically, smart. they are talking to the local health officials on the ground and consulting the task force. the federal system, we all learned this in middle school, it's going to go county by county, state by state, one step at a time. >> greg: i hope you are right, jesse. and it is fair for you to use the ventilator example, but i would have to come back with the face mask example. that they were dead wrong, and we had horrible shortages on face masks. and that did not build any trust in me. which is why i am worried about the tests. but i see your point about the ventilator, and we shall take a break now and discuss it further. >> jesse: you don't need a face mask at the beach, that is my point. >> dagen: you do, actually. yes, you do. >> jesse: no, not really. enclosed spaces. >> dana: we will go to the exports. >> greg: at the press briefing will be up soon, and it is trump versus pelosi as the president gets called out for another stimulus plan. hey, can i... 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with science, science, science. evidence, data on how we can go forward. >> dana: trump and pelosi clashing over funding to help small businesses, republicans lashing out at democrats over delays because funding for the program ran out last week. after an impasse, it looks like the white house and congress are close on a $470 billion package to help small business owners. president trump weighed in on that. >> you say it is ready to go, then they say, we have a good negotiating system, because he said it was ready to go. we are negotiating with the democrats, and they negotiate the things that we can do that we don't think are in the best interests of the people of this country. we are very close to a deal. >> dana: i'm going to go to you first on this, because i want to point out that it is likely that what ever they pass is going to look almost identical to what they had proposed two weeks ago. so this money did not actually have to run out, it was just playing politics with it, and i have small business owners who have applied, and they can't get their money. and every day they are thinking they are going to have to lay off or they are going to lay off people or they are going to have to lose their business. >> dagen: these are family businesses that are flat on their backs. and these people don't know how they are going to stay open. because the democrats were playing politics with a reload and a refreshing and a refill of the small business paycheck protection program. seven days before that program ran out of money, mitch mcconnell put in front of the democrats a 25-line bill just for the money. and what did they do? they drag to their feet. so every time anyone of these democrats ever says small businesses. so they figure out the fabric of america, they could be proceeded with the go to hell, small businesses, because that's what you did. and now they are trying to turn it on the republicans -- the democrats are, why did the blue states not get as many loans filled as some of the red states? because that's where the big banks were, and they deserve all lot of the big banks. but making about $120 billion in loans out of a $350 billion program. those big banks, bank of america, jpmorgan, they slowly walked for the first ten days of the program when they should've been stepping up like the community banks. there is shame to go around. and i have a steaming pile of horse manure they can all jump in. >> greg: yeah. >> dana: i knew that i wanted to go to you first on that. greg, what about the view between pelosi and trump? going through a emergency and a pandemic and an election year. >> greg: i hate it when politics intrudes. but first i want to address the small business owners that are being ignored. there are a lot of sole proprietors and 1099 on salary workers that are being turned down by banks as well. so restaurants, hospitality sectors, they employ a lot of nonsalary workers. and they are not getting any help from the banks on that, because they don't accept 1099. that needs to be addressed. but to the feud, we learned in times of virus that politics is incurable. and it has a chief symptom of amnesia where it allows people to accuse others of sin that they just committed. like pelosi or de blasio, or cuomo, who said people should just keep going to mass events, so they really can't criticize trump about delay, since they are telling people it was no big deal. it wasn't pelosi focusing on the exaggerated hysteria of labor dates before she got around to this? by the way, everyone do themselves a favor, google dan crenshaw on bill maher, it is the best. >> dana: yes, yes, you should do that and spend some time without one. but the small business owners, like restaurants, they have their rent that they have to pay to the landlord. and they are not sure if they are going to be able to make it much longer. >> jesse: could you imagine, dana, if there was a republican in charge and that republican was holding up money to small businesses, to families in the middle of an economic calamity? the media would be breathing fire, but for some reason nancy pelosi gets a pass. i cannot believe that she says that trump bumbled the thing, that must mean that fauci and birx fumbled it, because every time they came with a recommendation, he acted immediately on it. i mean, it was march 16th that they said, shut this down. trump shuts it down. you know how many deaths there were? five dozen. if nancy knew on march 16th that we should've shut it down to weeks earlier, why did she not get on the horn with fauci and birx and say, you are too late. because on march 1st there was one death, and if master thomas nancy knew after one death on march 1st that we need to shout to the greatest economy down, well, then my god, she is in the wrong line of business. because no one knew at that point, the europeans had not shut anything down, no one knew a thing. and i had our researchers check to see if nancy pelosi had pointed a finger at china or the w.h.o.? guess how many instances they found? zero. that says a lot about nancy. maybe she is colluding with the chinese? maybe we should wiretap her? >> dana: let me get juan in here. we'll talk about the chinese and the republicans in the democrats when we get into the next block. but do you think congress should respond about coming back to washington to work these things out in a quicker way? >> juan: sure. and i think that speaker -- majority leader, said we need to get this done. and he is going to open the senate at 4:00 to get in a vote, but they could not get anything in place today. but they need to get it done. but to your point into the other point, listen, i think democrats are advocating that the money needs to go to regular folks. to the people. to the american people. and not through the jpmorgans and end up in the plans of blue chris steak house, because even though it is a big company and individual franchises apply, but they get the big paycheck, and they say, this backlash coming at us, we have to give some of the money. i think they gave all the money back that they were getting. >> dana: they did. they gave their loan back. >> juan: what you need a smaller banks, and i think that's part of what chuck schumer and the democrats want to. you want smaller banks that do community banking that to reach out to small businesses and localities, both urban and rural, and to smaller nonprofit organizations to make sure they get a fair share of the money. and it does not simply go to people that are politically connected at the very top, not only in terms of washington, but in terms of the big banks. that's not fair. >> dana: i don't know if you heard that train whistle, but -- the train whistle means we got to go. but you make a good point. [laughter] we have to go so that we have more time because the president will brief soon. the white house coronavirus task force is going to come up any moment. the president said 5:30. we will take a quick break and be right back. a major 2020 clash, president trump and joe biden are going to battle over who is tougher on china from now until election day. ♪ i don't add up the years. and i don't count the wrinkles. but what i do count on is boost high protein. and now, introducing new boost women... with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you. ♪ >> juan: welcome back. china is quickly becoming a key 2020 election issue. both president trump and joe biden, the former vice president agreed that it is time to get tough don't act tough over china and its slow response to the coronavirus pandemic. but their campaigns have a different take on who will be tougher. the trump campaign preparing to attack biden by painting him as close to beijing. here's the president's latest attack. >> may be sleepy joe biden is going to win. and if sleepy joe biden wins, he will own the united states. and china will own the united states. >> juan: and biden's campaign is fighting back with this new ad. >> trump rolls over the chinese. trump praise the chinese 15 times in january and february as the coronavirus spread across the world. >> juan: dana, as you see in that biden-ad that is 90 seconds long. there is an emphasis on how often the president had nice things to say not only about the government, but president xi. and i wonder if you think the president had interest in trying to preserve a possible trade deal with china? >> dana: so first of all, a 90-second ad is not an ad, that is a short film. so it should be submitted into the awards that way. nobody can watch a 90-second ad. that does not work. the other thing is, both campaigns have realized that there is a vulnerability to look like you are too close to china. president trump already played this, well, he played the card in 2016, but he has been anti-china up until really he became president and then had to work with them. he has an interesting lane to walk, because he has to still do diplomacy. and what if china comes up with the vaccine first? what do we do then? are we going to want access to the vaccine? i'm assuming so. so he has to lead that way. and vice president biden knows that it is really hard to campaign during a pandemic. if he goes too hard, it's going to look like he is rooting for the pandemic response to fail, which would look really bad, because we can't have americans fail. and we will not fail. i do not envy joe biden. but they have to figure out a way to get him on television to be sharper if he can possibly pull it out. >> juan: hey, greg, but isn't this a case where trump is saying that biden did what apparently trump dead when he was saying all of the nice things about the chinese? >> greg: i find it funny when people are surprised or shocked when trump says nice things about a leader when he is dealing with the leader. he is a salesman. a salesman know that you don't mock the opposition in public during a negotiation. he never insults them, that he go somewhere else and later he applies pressure. but this is a tell about joe biden. he is parroting what is put before him. gramps would read the ingredients on a package of beef jerky if they placed it in front of biden, everybody knows trump, except joe biden and the media who obsesses over trump. >> juan: so, jesse, what do you think about this? is it the case that biden fighting back on china, and i thought it was a very strong ad is going to be effective with voters? >> jesse: no, i don't think biden wants any smoke. if that is trump's turf, he is softer on my pillow then china. he rolled out the corporate for the communist chinese his whole career while they stole our factories, and dumped drugs here while his son got rich. i will go toe-to-toe with biden all day on china. i will take apart that ad. i know we don't have enough time, because we have to go to break, but just to say that trump which travel ban was not tough enough, because 40,000 ams came home from china. okay, so you were against the travel ban, but now you are saying it is not tough enough because it allowed americans to come home much to mark like joe would not allow americans to come home. he does not know what he is talking about, and everybody knows it. >> juan: so very quickly -- >> dagen: i will wrap up by saying here is what joe biden said to remind the american people that day the travel ban was an ounce january 31st, this is no time for donald trump's record of hysteria, xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, and fearmongering to lead the way instead of science. well, it saved countless lives. and it will take joe biden more than 90 days to explain what his son hunter was up to and china, much less 90 seconds. >> juan: i think that trump will have to explain how tariffs hurt the american people. they did not hurt china. this is an interesting argument. but we can see the politics. >> jesse: did not hurt china? >> juan: there is no question. you should check with dagen on that one. president trump will come soon for the task briefing, but up next on "the five," find out what facebook is doing to track covid-19 patients, and how concerned you should be about that. that is next on "the five." ♪ customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> president trump: struggling with the financial consequences of the virus, it is critical to continue the medical war while reopening the economy in a safe and responsible fashion. during this time americans must remain strick vigilance and practice careful hygiene, social distancing, and to the other protective measures that we have outlined and that everyone has become familiar with. we continue to be encouraged that many of the areas hardest hit by the virus have turned the corner. for example, recent deaths are down very, very substantially. you can compare that with their peak not so long ago. and you have numbers of 30%, 25%, and detroit as an example. it is down by over 50%, congratulations. and in new orleans where they have done a terrific job, they are down 65%. 30 states with one case or less, far fewer cases per capita, and germany, the united kingdom, france, singapore, belgium, spain, norway, austria, sweden. my administration continues to press congress to replenish of the enormously successful paycheck protection program, which has impacted 30 million american jobs. we hope to have an agreement very soon and hopefully tomorrow the senate is going to be able to vote. a lot of progress has been made on that tremendous progress. it is a great plan. it is a great plan. it has helped a lot of people. we hope to be able to vote in the senate. and based on the record low price of oil that you have been seeing at a level that is very interesting to a lot of people, we are filling up our national petroleum reserves, strategic. you know, the strategic reserves. and we are looking to put as much as 75 million barrels into the reserves themselves. that would top it out. that would be the first time in a long time that it has been topped out. we get it for the right price. we are also pushing for the deal to include an additional 75 billion. our deal. that we are talking about. a $75 billion for hospitals and other health care providers. many providers and their employees have taken a huge financial hit in recent weeks, and visits, elective procedures, surgeries, et cetera, et cetera were canceled. we think they can all get back online and will get it done. the hospitals have really been fantastic. the hospitals, they have stepped up to the plate. they've really done a great job. we appreciate it so much. for areas less affected by the virus, we have issued new recommendations about how to safely resume elective treatments. hhs has distributed the first $30 billion in direct payments to a million health care providers across the country. we have also invested $1.4 billion in community health senses to ensure our most vulnerable communities including many african-american and hispanic-american communities have access to the services and testing that they need. earlier today, vice president pence spoke with governors from all 50 states about our unified effort to defeat the virus. he had a great call. it was a great call. very positive. i would say in every way. prior to the call, we provided each governor with a list of names, addresses, and phone numbers of the labs where they can find additional testing capacity within their states. many, many labs are providing you with the list. we will show it to you now if you need it. we will give you the details. hundreds and hundreds of labs are willing, ready, and able. some of the governors, as an example, the governor from maryland did not really understand the list. he did not understand too much about what was going on, so now i think he will be able to do that. it's pretty simple. but they have tremendous capacity. and we hope to be able to help him out. we will work with him and all of the governors. similar to the situation with ventilators, states need to assess their complete inventory of available capacity. some states have far more capacity than they actually understand. and it is a complex subject, but some of the governors did not understand. to the governor as an example from illinois did not understand his capacity. not simply asking the federal government to provide support, i mean, you have to take the sport where you have it. but we are there to stand with the governors and to help the governors. and that's what we're doing. and they have a tremendous capacity that we have already built up. and you will see that as we introduce a couple of the folks in a little while to talk about it. i want to draw your attention to governor cuomo's remarks during his press conference today. he said the president is right. to the state's testing is up to the states to do. which will implement the tests and to logistically coordinate the tests. we have about 300 labs in new york, and they do. they are great labs, actually. my job to coordinate to those 300 labs. to the president is right when he says that the state should lead. and the governor is really getting, they are getting it together in new york. a lot of good things are happening in new york. and i think that the governor will come into cs tomorrow. he is coming to the oval office tomorrow afternoon. andrew will be coming in with some of his people. we look forward to that. some of the articles had just recently come about, if you remember, i put out a statement today for a month that was all ventilators, ventilators, ventilators. that's all the people could talk about was ventilators. and we did a great job with that. we built a lot of ventilators, we have so many now that at some point soon we are going to be helping mexico and italy and other countries. we will be sending them ventilators, which they desperately need. we are in a position, they were not in a position to build them themselves. but we have thousands that are being built every state has had, they have the ventilators. if they don't, we have almost 10,000 and in our federal reserve, our stockpile, as they call it. and we have done a great job with the ventilators. unfortunately, the press does not cover it other than the fair price. then you say, gee, they need ventilators. we don't need ventilators. and that is under pressure that we did that. nobody that needed a ventilator in this country did not get one. and a story that just came out, how the media completely blew the trump ventilator story. i'm sure that you would love to see that. that is by rich lowry, respected journalist and person. how the media completely blew the trump ventilator story, which unfortunately, it did. and here's another one that came out. kyle smith, the ventilator shortage that was sent, the ventilator shortage that wasn't, because we got it fixed. and we are also going to help the states by the way, stockpiling ventilators. so if it should happen again, we have them. the stories on testing are all over the place. we are actually in good shape. i'm going to have the vice president speak to you about that, but we are in very good shape. and we are getting better all the time. you will see some interesting things. i thought before i went any further, i would like to have general who has done an incredible job tell you where we are. you know, we are still building beds and hospitals for people that need them. i guess the hospital business in general is getting pretty much closed out now, but we are creating a lot of space for people just in case. and in some cases, they probably will be using them. but i thought that the general has been so impressive in doing such a great job, on behalf of the services and behalf of the federal government he could say a few words about what we're doing right now. thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. president. i want you to know that on behalf of all of us, our thoughts and prayers go out to all of those patients and victims that have been affected by this terrible virus. in the president and vice president talk all the time about the heroes. when i have been out there, i have seen the doctors and the nurses and all of those that have worked very, very hard. we are proud to be a part of the noble calling. for my team, i made a very, very simple. i said that there were three legs of the stool, and they all have ss. there are sites, we have to worry about supplies, and we have to worry about staff. so right when governor cuomo called the president. about almost 30 days ago, i said i need some help worrying about what could be tens of thousands of hotel room, hospital room shortages. the president and the secretary of defense asked everybody to fly over with the team and on the way up we understood how complex of a challenge list was. and we knew that there was no way that you could solve a complex catastrophe with a complicated solution. we needed a very, very simple solution to be able to then work with hhs to be able to work with female appeared to be able to work with the vice president's task force and then to be able to power this down all the way down to the local level. to some of the governors asked us to try to build a hospital in a parking lot or a field in two or three weeks. you can't physically do that. so what we said was let's go to where there is an existing facility, and i'm going to make this an two big pods, those that are either hotel rooms or college dormitories, smaller rooms, or those that are in large areas like field houses or convention centers. and we do sign those facilities that could either noncovid or covid-19 and got that approve. so we went to governor cuomo, i love the concept. i need you and javits center. i'm ready to have you working that afternoon. so when we flew back that day, we basically built the design and powered it down all the way through the rest of the team. so i just want to show you a couple of slides and we will let you know where we are at right now, mr. president. we had to do a bunch of assessments. so somewhere in the order, 1100 different locations that we went to, and we worked for fema, we work for the president, and we work for governors and mayors. and we said, what do you think your demand is going to be? and based on the lot of the modeling in this room here, we were able to understand when the peak curve was, but we also were able to understand where is the shortage. so these 1100 facility is right now today, we are actually executing 32 different facilities that are on the order of merit of about 16,000 beds. eight of those are all done. we still have a lot more to complete. and in the next week and a half we will complete about 15 more facilities. we have some pending. some mayors and governors are still wondering if they have enough bed space. and what is important is we need a very agile plan. you can't do something three weeks ago and think that this is going to continue to stay. because this virus gets a vote. and the entire team come the federal government is trying to be as agile as they can supporting the states and governors. the beauty of the plan was that it does not have to be billed by the united states army corps of engineers. so we designed about an extra 52 facilities and gave those to the governors. i have to be very, very, a laudatory to the governors, they then imposed and put a lot of those on the ground and did those themselves. so i'm going to show you some really simple pictures, go to the next slide, if you don't mind. so this is an example of javits center, you have heard the president talk about a quite a few times. about 2100 bed spaces, what you get is about an 11 or 12-foot square cubicle, there is lights, a nurse call, so if you need to call the nurse station, they are nurse stations throughout and pharmacy throughout. this one started as noncovid, but we wouldn't central oxygen so that everybody has oxygen right behind her bed to take care of those patients. and built this one about 1,000 patients treated. let's go to the next one. i was up in detroit, and the governor walked us through and told us or intent. you see all the cubicles that are laid out. this is right in the conventional floor where there might be a car show, and 970 different capabilities were built there. a lot of great work by my guys in the corps of engineers and the mayors and the cities team pulling together. this is called the mccormick place. sitting us down and saying this is the intent of what you want to do. and walking us through going into a large convention center. this is actually 3,000 bed spaces. a very, very large build, got this one a relatively short time. here's another one that helps you understand that dynamic. go to the next one, please. this is in miami beach and i flew into see governor desantis. and he said, how long will it take to build this? and i said to the 27th of april, and he went to his health people and he said, how long do you need? and he said the day we needed is the 21st of april, and i said, figure out how to get it done by the 20th. this is where you don't get the build to be able to have the perfect solution. you have to get the mission essential done. lives are on the line and we have to get everything done to be able to save those lives. let's go to the last one. this is one we are doing right now. colorado in denver, another gigantic convention center. you see all the different cubicles, being able to bring in the oxygen, 6-inch copper plate that comes in and is piped throughout the convention center, 6 miles of pipe to make that happen. and in closing, i want to be able to say that we are a very, very focused in the corps of engineers getting this done. but this is about the team. the federal team come in the state team, the local team. the vice president's task force, a lot of people sitting here have informed us about how fast we need to go and it goes back to the governors and the mayors that make this happen. i want to reiterate that president trump has called me three times. and secretary esper has been on the phone at least one of those times to say what else do we need to do does set you up for success? are there any other knobs to help you go? you think about the equation of the three ss, i think about the government and the cities, we have taken that first s out of the equation. so i can't tell you about all of the things i have done in my career, this is a noble calling to step up and save american lives. so with that, thank you very much. >> does anybody have a question for the general while he is he here? otherwise it was pretty self-explanatory. a an incredible job. >> are there any other projects besides the one you just identified? >> we thought that we were capped at 26. i said that the virus gets a vote. we see some of the curve stretching out where we thought we would have only had five or six days and we have a couple of weeks now. other ones are seeing the opposite where we did not think there was some, and i'm not going to go into locations, but we are definitely getting requests them. we have six more requests in the last four or five days. they are little bit smaller and a more remote areas, but our job, still, if we have enough time to build, we want to do the assessment. we work for the mayor and the city and the governor here. and we can still get them done if the mayors and the elected officials make it fast enough decision. >> president trump: the general is in charge of the wall on the southern border, and we want to build 450 miles of wall, that is under construction. that might give them an update, how are we doing with the wall? >> the most important thing, and you stress list and secretary esper stresses this, there are several different priorities. in the number one priority in the department of defense is to protect the team. protect the force, no matter what we do, we have to take care of our civilians and our service members out there. and so every single thing we are doing whether we are building for the va or we are building for civil works projects or the department of defense or on the southwest border, we are going out of our way. i talked to my commanders this morning we have over 4,000 contractors that are on the ground out there and no pauses as of this morning. knock on wood. same thing with my 400 employees. we are testing them, not with the stringent tests, but with temperatures to make sure that everybody is safe and goes out of their way to do things the right way. construction is going very, very smooth. what we are seeing is the contractors are extremely focused. now that we have a quick clear path both on the cbp program as well as some of the dod program, we are well postured. it is a very, very aggressive bill, but we are well postured to make your expectations for 50 by the end of december 2020. >> president trump: 164 miles. we will have it done sometime next year. the quality of the wall in terms of its power for stopping people that shouldn't be coming into our country. >> if you have a standard design and it works very well, i've got a pat on the back, commissioner morgan, he was very adamant, tenuate to be able to make sure it supports his agents. we have a design that does that. we have a phenomenal contractor working for us, the corps of engineer employees, and it's going in well. we don't see any significant problems. i think it's also important to point out that we want to do this the right way. we try to balance this with environmental considerations. we are trying to do due diligence when it comes to anything to do with any of the citizens affected. trying to make sure we are protecting all the things we need to protect and trying to find that balance where we can both meet the administration's directives while at the same time making sure we're doing this so that everybody gets a vote and everybody has a fair shake. >> reporter: may i ask what you're doing regarding the availability come at the recreation site, that the army corps of engineers operates. whether or not there are restrictions -- >> i am an engineer. when the president says turn on america, what we initially did, like many, many other governors, shut down beaches, shut down cities, i had a meeting with my commanders this morning. as soon as we think it's safe, to turn it back on. parking at iraqi area where you are 500 feet away from everybody in that area, it's probably a low threat. when we get get green lights to let everybody go back out there and do things, we work for the administration, so i want to do it safe. but i don't want to be the last guy that turns things on, not at all. yes, ma'am. >> reporter: about whether or not there any specific efforts in areas that are hardest hit, black communities were latino communities, communities of color. is the army corps of engineers building any temporary facilities? >> we key off with the city asked for. the city and the governor. there are some specific areas that city mayors have asked us for. i'm not going to go into details. but if they say they are worried about a hot spot on this side of town or a specific community, we will, and what the administration has charged us to do, whatever we can do to be most responsive. we don't ever want to have an ambulance pull up to the back of the hospital and someone says we are out of room, go to the next hospital. we are trying to make sure that bed space is available in so far everything we have build has been ahead of need. we are able to finish the building two or three days before it's needed. >> president trump: you can stand watch, watch these wonderful people ask it's really nice questions. >> sir, i've got a lot of building to do. thank you, sir. >> president trump: very impressive. impressive job. it's really great. thank you very much. he's a terrific gentleman. we have a lot of great people doing that kind of thing, they really have to get recognition for the incredible job they are doing because i don't think anybody else could do it. nothing like that. that's on top of thousa
>> order. statement, the secretary of state for foreign and commonwealth affairs. "money rocks" "money rocks". >> secretary william hayes. >> mr. speaker, with permission i'll make a statement on the crisis in syria. the time has come to announce to the house necessary developments in our policy and our readiness to develop it further if the bloodshed continues. two years after it gans -- began, 10,000 people have died since i last updated the house in early january. that means more people have died in the first two months of this year than in the whole of the first year of the conflict. the total estimated death toll is now over 70,000 people. the regime has used scud ballistic missiles against civilian areas and there's evidence of grave human rights violations, war crimes and crimes against humanity including massacres, torture, summary executions and a systematic policy of rape and sexual violence by the regime forces and its militia. a year ago one million people needed humanitarian aid inside syria. that figure is now up to four million people out of a total population of 21 million. 40,000 people are fleeing syria each week, three-quarters of them women and children. the number of refugees have increased thirtyfold over the last ten months, and today the sad milestone of one million refugees has been reached. the population of lebanon which i visited two weeks ago has risen by 10% from the influx of destitute people. this is a desperate situation of increasingly extreme humanitarian suffering. there is no sign that the assad regime currently intends to enter into a genuine political process. they appear to believe they can defeat their opponents militarily, and they count on being shielded by some countries at the united nations security council. it will be necessary to turn each of these calculations on its head if the conflict is to come to a peaceful end. securing a diplomatic breakthrough remains, of course, our objective. last week i discussed it with john kerry here in london and other close partners with the friends of the syrian people in rome. in rome i also met the syrian national coalition's president and welcomed his brave announcement that the national coalition is open to direct talks with members of the assad regime. we continue our efforts to develop common ground with russia. i will have talked with the russian foreign minister later this afternoon and next week also here in london. and at the end of january, the u.n. and arab league special representative for syria set out a credible plan for the establishment of a transitional authority in syria. we're working with allies to achieve, if at all possible, security council backing for a transition process, and i'm meeting mr. bra brahimi again ao this afternoon. the fact is diplomacy is taking far too long, and the prospect of an mealed breakthrough is -- an immediate breakthrough is slim. lance armstronger number of refugees and confrontation. the international community cannot stand still in the face of this reality. our policy has to move towards more active efforts to prevent the loss of life in syria, and this means stepping up our support to the opposition and thereby increasing the pressure on the regime to accept a political solution. what we face is not a choice between diplomacy on the one hand and practical assistance on the other. helping the opposition is crucial to bringing about a political transition and saving lives, and both must be pursued together. we will always be careful in how we develop our policy, but our readiness to develop it further should be unmistakeable, particularly for the as 15d regime -- assad regime. what happens in syria is vital to our national interests for three reasons. the first is the growth of extremism. the vast majority of people opposing the regime are ordinary people trying to defend their commitments and gain freedom for their country, but syria today has become the top destination for jihadists anywhere in the world, and we're already seeing a rise in sectarian violence and attacks using car bombs. we cannot allow syria to become another breeding ground for terrorists who pose a threat to our national security. second, the crisis is undermining the peace of the region. there have been reports of clashes on the iraqi border and in lebanon. we are increasingly concerned about the regime's readiness to use chemical weapons. we have warned the assad regime that the use of chemical weapons would lead to a serious response from the international community. those who order the use and who use chemical weapons will be held to account. there's also credible information that iran is providing considerable military support to the regime true its revolutionary guard corps including personnel, weapons and direct financial assistance. third, we and our allies must always be prepared to respond to situations of extreme humanitarian distress. our foreign policy is inseparable from supporting international law. we must assist the genuine, moderate and democratic forces in syria who are in dire need of help and who feel abandoned by the international community. the longer this conflict goes on, the more human suffering, persecution of minorities, radicalization and sectarian conflict there will be. despite these three compelling arguments, there will still be those who say britain should have nothing to do with syria. but we cannot look the other way while human rights are flouted, and it would be height of irresponsibility to ignore potential threat to our own security. so i want to explain to the house today the next step in increasing our support to the syrian people, and i emphasize there may well have to be further steps. we have contributed nearly 140 million pounds in humanitarian aid so far. this is funding foot, clean drinking water, medical stabs, blankets and shelter for many tens of thousands of people. we're supporting the syrian national coalition's own efforts to deliver aid inside syria, and we will seek new ways to expand access for aid across the country while preparing to help a future government deal with the aftermath of the conflict. we've also committed a total of 9.4 million pounds so far in nonlethal support to the syrian op suggestion, civil society and human rights defenders. we've trained more than 300 syrian journalists and activists, and we're providing satellite communication devices to document human rights violences and abuses. i informed the house in january that we would seek to amend the european union sanctions on syria to open up the possibility of further assistance if the situation deteriorated. on thursday we finalized with our european partners a specific exemption to the e.u. sanctions to permit the provision of nonlethal military equipment and all forms of technical assistance to the syrian national coalition where it is spended for the approximate of civilians -- intended for the protection of civilians. this is important no our ability to help -- in our ability to help save lives. it can include advice and training on how to maintain security in areas no longer controlled by the regime, on coordination between civilian and military councils, on how to protect civilians and minimize the risks to them and how to maintain security during a transition. we will now provide such assistance, advice and training. we intend to respond to the opposition's request to provide equipment for search and rescue operations and incinerators and collection kits to prevent the spread of disease. we will help local councils to repair electricity and water supplies to homes, and we will also respond to the opposition's request for further water purification kits and equipment to help civilian political leaders operate and communicate. we will also now provide new types of nonlethal equipment for the protection of civilians going beyond what we have given before. in conjunction with the national coalition, we are identifying the protective equipment which will be of most assistance to them and likely to save most lives. i will keep the house updated, but it will certainly include, for instance, armored four-wheel drive vehicles to help opposition figures move around more freely as well as personal protection equipment including body armor. we will be able to provide testing equipment to the opposition to enable evidence gathering in the horrific event of chemical weapons use, and we will also fund training to help armed groups understand their responsibilities and obligations under international law and international human rights standards. any human rights violations or abuses are unacceptable on all sides. we've allocated nearly three million pounds in something this month to support this work and an additional ten million pounds thereafter comprising $20 million in nonlethal equipment and practical support to the syrian op is decision and civilian -- opposition and civilian society. and we hope other countries will offer similar assistance. the cabinet is in no doubt that this is a necessary, proportionate and lawful response to a situation of extreme humanitarian suffering, and though there is no practicable alternative. all our systems will be carefully calibrated and monitored as well as legal and will be aimed at alleviating the human catastrophe and supporting moderate groups. the process in this way was difficult, and the decision came down to the wire. we persisted with it because we believe it is preferable to have a united e.u. approach. in our view if a solution is not found and the conflict continues, we and the rest of the european union will have to be ready to move further, and we should not rule out any option for saving lives. in case further necessary amendments to the sanctions regime prove impossible to agree, we stand ready to take any domestic measures necessary to insure that core sanctions on syria remain effective. this is a situation in syria where extreme humanitarian distress and growing dangers to international peace and security must weigh increasingly heavy in the balance against other risks. with this crisis now becoming one of major dimensions with any standard with millions of people on the move and tens of of thousands dead, tens of thousands more in daily danger of losing their lives, the world's most volatile region and growing tension and political deadlock endured for two years, our policy cannot be static, nor our position indifferent. the situation of growing gravity requires a steadily more active approach. learning the lessons of previous conflicts and always emphasizing the need for a political and diplomatic result of the crisis but also being prepared to use increased pressure to try to bring this about. we will continue to keep the house properly informed as we press for an end to the conflict, provide life-saving assistance and work to insure that syria has the political transition which people deserve. >> [inaudible] alexander. >> thank you, mr. speaker. can i thank the foreign secretary for his statement and, indeed -- [inaudible] this month marks the second anniversary of the start of this brutal on flick. two years on, as the foreign secretary has rightly pointed out, the death toll is now estimated at some 07,000 and is rising -- 70,000 and is rising by the day. only today the united nations announced that the number of civilian refugees has now reached one million. half of these refugees are children. more than 400,000 since the first of january, 2013, alone. and more than 7,000 are reported to be fleeing every day. the united nations today declared that syria is spiraling towards full-scale disaster. so, mr. speaker, as the number of casualties rise, frustrations too have been growing, and this frustration has understandably led to renewed calls to the international community to do more. the primary responsibility for this crisis rests with assad and his regime. but, mr. speaker, does the foreign secretary accept that the deteriorating situation in syria also represents an abject failure on behalf of the international community and they share a collective responsibility for that? it is right that efforts must now intensify, but the key issue is the breadth of these efforts, how these efforts are channeled and how likely they are to deliver results? first, mr. speaker, on international diplomatic efforts, the stalemate at the united nations security council is more than just frustrating, it is deplorable. the case must be made to russia and china that supporting or aiding assad not only harms syria, but harms their own interests and, indeed, standing within the wider region. the can the foreign secretary or set out what recommendations he will make in london next week specifically on the prospects and the changes in the security council? separately on sanctions, the issue at present is not necessarily about new sanctions, but effective enforcement of existing sanctions. given his recent visit, does the foreign secretary agree with me that more must be done to insure that countries fully comply with the existing sanctions to which they have already signed up? third, on the issue of international accountability, the responsibility for the crisis as i made clear primarily rests with the assad regime, and the perpetrators must ultimately be held to account. does the foreign secretary agree that efforts to publish the name of syrian officers ordering the ongoing atrocities are vital as they could serve as a clear signal of spent that they will face -- of intent that they will face justice for their crimes and, of course, that includes the use of chemical weapons. fourth, on the issue of peace talks, the leader of the syrian national coalition, last month reportedly offered to engage in talks on a political settlement without demanding assad's resignation. in his comments in the interview given last week by assad, assad claimed he was ready to negotiate with anyone, including militants who surrender their arms. neither of offers have yet been accepted, nor can we make a judgment as to the spirit with which they were intended, but can the foreign secretary offer his assessment of whether or not they constitute t a slight narrowing between the gap of the syrian authorities and opposition forces? finally, mr. speaker, let me turn to the central issue of the u.k. support for the syrian opposition and the announcement and the statement made today. it is right that the u.k. is at the forefront of coordinating international efforts to deliver aid to those most in need both with within and beyond the syrian borders, and i welcome announcements to that effect. when it comes the our support for the syrian opposition forces, it is vital that all of our support must continue to be targeted and accountable if it's to be effective. so, mr. speaker, the foreign secretary has today said the government will move towards, and i quote directly, more active efforts to prevent the loss of life in syria. it is right that the international community must increase their efforts, but it is vital that the parameters of these efforts are clearly set out, defined and understood. indeed, on this issue the foreign secretary's statement at times raised more questions than answers as to the real direction he is suggesting for british government policy. the foreign secretary has today spoken of the amendments made to the e.u. arms embargo. i welcome the fact that these changes were agreed at the e.u. foreign affairs council. those amendments were focused on insuring that the right the to known lethal equipment could be delivered to opposition forces. but, mr. speaker, the work of the foreign office minister in the house on monday seemed to add some confusion to an already complex issue. when addressing the house on monday, the minister said, and i quote directly, this is not about lifting any arms embargo. mr. speaker, he then went on to say about the recent amendments to the existing e.u. arms embargo that it was about insuring that all options are on the table and that e.u. countries have maximum flexibility the to provide the opposition with all necessary assistance to protect civilians. mr. speaker, i think given these statements it is understandable that there is currently some confusion over the government's position that requires further clarification. so can the foreign secretary today say some more about the next steps that he anticipated in his statement? can he confirm whether or not the government will be pushing for an e.u. arms embargo to be lifted in and can he also set out what, if any, further amendments to the embargo he will be calling for? the foreign secretary has committed that when it comes to lifting the arms embargo, that the risks of arms falling into the wrong hands is one of the reasons we don't do it now. we agree with him that the risk of this is, indeed, very serious. so can he, therefore, set out to the house what would have to change on the ground in syria for him to change his view as to the relative risks involved in such a strategy? does he accept the reality is that today syria is replete with arms and will he accept the very great difficulties involved in guaranteeing the end use of weapons given the lack of clarity today about the identity, the intent and, indeed, the tactics of some of the rebel forces? does he accept that it is possible that if europe or indeed the west more generally were to decide to arm the rebels, that russia or, indeed, iran as he reference inside his remarks would simply increase their provision of arms to the assad regime? rather than pushing for the embargo to be to be relaxed, amended or lufted altogether, can he ask him to direct his efforts towards getting the russians and chinese to get an arms embargo? the most effect thive way of cutting off a key lifeline to the regime. somewhat curiously, the foreign secretary having previously mentioned the fact that al-qaeda are known to be operating in syria was silent in his remarks today. in light of increased u.k. support for the opposition forces, can the foreign secretary set out what is the british government assessment of the present level of this activity by al-qaeda and related jihad u.s. groups in syria? the can he give any assurances about the degree of authority and control exercised by the fnc over the wide range of opposition forces operating on the ground? the foreign -- >> i'm mildly alarmed by my sight of a further full page of text from the right honorable gentleman, but i know he'll put my mind at rest when he tells me he's not trying to deal with it. >> i will endeavor to keep my remarks as short as possible. i would simply say i indicated when listening to the foreign secretary's statements, it had begged more questions than answers, but i'm mindful, so let me conclude with following remarks. i understand frustrations are growing, but a strategy borne of frustration is less likely to deliver than one based on strategic insight. surely the priority now for britain should be to work to unipie the -- unify the syrian opposition. syria needs to see a deescalation and a political resolution. while the government has our support for its action toss provide humanitarian and nonlethal assistance to syria announced today, it is far from clear that taking steps to intensify this conflict in the months ahead would do anything to reduce the present level of violence being suffered by the syrian people. >> mr. speaker, the right honorable gentleman correctly draws attention, as i have done, to the extent of the human suffering. and the fact that the united nations has launched the largest ever appeal in financial terms for humanitarian terms just underlines the catastrophic scale of that suffering, and we must all remember in our remarks that that is the background to this, and that is the background for deciding what we have to do in that situation. um, he recommended something towards the end of his statement, some of which we have done such as work to unify the syrian opposition. of course, that's what we've done for many months, and they have been unified. and to the extent that that can be practical acleeved in the national coalition, that is the group we have recognized as the legitimate representatives of the syrian people. they may not be, i don't suppose any opposition or any political grouping will be perfect in our eyes in this country or any other country, but i don't believe that there will be a better attempt or a greater success at unifying the syrian opposition than the national coalition. m some other things that he was recommending i have to say would be wonderful if they could be achieved such as russian and chinese agreement to impose an arms embargo of the whole world on syria. of course, we would support that. but i have to say and, of course, we will go over all this ground with the russians again at the meetings that i've said will take place this afternoon and next week, there is no prospect that i've seen of russia agreeing to such an arms embargo. and so it's a good thing to wish for, but in practical, diplomatic terms there is no possibility at the moment of that being achieved. and that is the background to the decisions that we have to take. there are many things that would be far preferable that an immediate agreement would be reached straight away on a negotiated political transition in syria, and, of course, he asks quite rightly about the how serious we should take the offers to negotiate. and i certainly believe having talked to the president of the national coalition last week that his offer not only is very sincere, he would love it to be taken up. and that he really means that he will negotiate with members of the regime. without firing systems on the departure of assad. but the insistence by president assad such as in this weekend interview, the regime is ready to negotiate is something we've heard for two years and has never turned into actual substance. of course, we will discuss with mr. brahimi again this afternoon whether those statements can be used to bring both sides closer together. that's part of his job to try to do that. and, but the evidence over the last two years is that in current circumstances offers to negotiate by the regime are not sip sere and are not followed up and do not lead to the sort of progress we all want to see. and so it is against that background of the diplomatic deadlock, the political stalemate while tens of thousands of people die that i argue that we have to do what we can. yes, in a very cautious and considered way and a very clearly thought out way to try to change that situation and to try to save human lives. as best we can working, of course, at all times with our part nevers and our ally -- partners and our allies unincluding in the arab world. and there is a meeting of the foreign ministers of the arab league today. and we will continue to use every diplomatic effort. but this is the situation i've described and that he has described is not one in which our policy can remain static. he's quite right to say that the international community has been an abject failure collectively. the united nations security council has not shouldered its responsibilities. and we've tried many times to put that right. our resolutions have been vetoed, and we have been working in the last month since mr. brahimi's last briefing to the council to find a new common way forward in the security council. again, we will discuss this with the russians in the coming hours, but this has not emerged in a month of discussions behind the scenes in new york. so we all have to ask ourself toes given that situation, are we going to hold our policy completely static, or are we going to show we are prepared to change as the situation deteriorates? reluctantly, perhaps. cautiously, at all times. and i target we must be prepared to show that increased level of support for the opposition and that it has to take practical form if we're to exert any pressure on the regime and, indeed, on russia as well to successfully negotiate about this. and the parameters of what we're talking about are, i hope, clearly set out in the statement i've given because they are set out clearly in the amendment to the e.u. arms embargo. it is amended, not lifted. the arms embargo remains in place. these are specific exemptions for nonlethal military equipment and for technical assistance for the protection of civilians, and i've just given some examples in my statement of what that means in practice. as to the future, the e.u. sanctions have now been rolled over with that amendment for three months, and so there will be a further discussion in may about the renewal of such sanctions. and the government will form then, the house will be able to form its view, every honorable member will be able to form their view of what we should do in whatever decision we have arrived at in may about further amendments if they are necessary to the embargo. so i think the parameters are clear, the policy is clear, and what i want to make clear today is its direction is clear which is we must be prepared to do more in a situation of such slaughter and of such suffering and that a policy, a more static policy would not measure up to the depravity of this situation -- the depravity of this situation. >> [inaudible] >> i regret to say that i cannot see how any of them will have any serious prospect of reducing the length of this conflict and preventing the massacre of tens of thousands of more syrians. will the foreign secretary accept that until such time as the syrian opposition have the military equipment that will enable them to defeat the assad regime and thereby bring the conflict to an end earlier than would otherwise be the case, we will see a continuation of tens of thousands of people being killed, and the extremists in the opposition will benefit from that delay? what would the foreign secretary have to be persuaded of to accept that military support to the opposition in a controlled and responsible way is, indeed, necessary? >> well, i think what i, in fact, most of the house would have to be persuaded of is that there was absolutely no alternative remaining. and my right honorable friend has put the case, put the case for a long time, actually, for us to go much further than i have said today, for the actual arming of the opposition movements in syria by western countries. um, the difficulties of that are once that the right honorable gentleman, the shadow foreign secretary referred to, and also, of course, we have to recognize that the conflict is already militarized in syria. opposition groups do have access to substantial quantities of weapons, and those weapons are already reaching, are already there inside syria. there is such a flow of weapons. so i think it is right for the development of our policy to be graduated, for us to show our readiness to deliver increased assistance, the willingness of european countries and the united states to amend our policy as the, if the situation continues the deteriorate. but we have to do that in a way that commands general support, and we have to do it in a way that poses the least danger to the increased militarization of the conflict, and that's why i think this is the right balance to strike rather than to move to the position my right honorable friend has consistently advocated. >> mr. jack straw. >> thank you, mr. speaker. would the foreign secretary say that a fair summary of the position we've reached is that we are now providing or every kind of assistance to the military forces of the opposition short of explosives, guns and bullets that actually do the killing? and i have no objections to that. i think it's essential. but would he also acknowledge that in my judgment he's right not to rule out the option of direct lethal military supplies, the strategic, diplomatic consequences of any such decision and the degree to which we could, frankly, get bogged down in a kind of cold war, proxy war many that situation really needs to be thought through very carefully, indeed, before you make a positive decision? >> yes, i very much agree with the right honorable gentleman. he accurately characterizes the position, although perhaps putting it too strongly to say we're providing every kind of assistance short of heath -- lethal. we'll provide assistance of that nature that is for the protection of civilians, and that is an important requirement, and we will absolutely, we will interpret that exactly. it has to be for the protection of civilians. so he went a bit too far in his characterization to have the position. but he is right, of course, and for the reasons i was just speaking about a moment ago it would be a further, and it would be a bigger stance to say we are sending lethal equipment. and we have taken no decision to do that, and we have no current plan to do that. but it is necessary, of course, to be clear that in a situation of this gravity and of this, of the possible implications of the peace of the whole region we can't rule out options. we can't definitively rule it out, and that was the thrust of his question. >> [inaudible] campbell. >> my right honorable friend gives a compelling analysis of the deteriorating situation in syria, and the measures he announced should be not only accepted, should be welcomed by the house so far as they're designed to alleviate suffering and loss of life. but as we approach the tenth anniversary of the mistaken military action against saddam hussein, does he understand that there are many of us in the house or who are concerned lest we might drift towards something that could be described as military intervention? >> well, i'm grateful to my right honorable friend for the measures that i've announced to be welcomed by the house, and, of course, welcome that support. and, yes, i absolutely understand that after more than a decade of conflict in different ways people are always anxious about new conflict. that doesn't mean, however, we can stick our heads in the sand, that we can ignore new conflicts that have risen in the world that can affect us for all the reasons i have described. it does mean that our response to them has to be very intelligent, has to be very well calculated. and i think we can say quite clearly on, answering the heart of his question, there's no western government that's advocating military intervention, military intervention of the western nation or of any nations into the conflict in syria. the discussion is entirely focused on the degree of assistance that cannons should be delivered to the opposition inside syria. that's what the discussion is centered on rather than on an external military intervention. >> [inaudible] >> mr. speaker, will he accept that the logical next step of the strategy which he's been pursuing now for over six monthsnot more is to arm -- months if not more is to arm the opposition? and i think it's profoundly mistaken. he's eloquently condemned and carried the whole house every time he's made a statement these last six months, the horror, the par barety of the assad regime. just going for regime change in what is a civil war with a shia/sunni conflict there, a reincarnation of the cold war as well is not going to ever achieve its objective. what he should be doing is instead of just promoting the opposition's call for negotiations, you should actually test assad's willingness to negotiate expressed over the weekend, test it to destruction. and he's not doing that. he's pursuing a failed strategy, a monumental failure of diplomacy, and it's making the situation worse. >> here, here. >> well, the right honorable gentleman doesn't really help his case in the way that he describes the government's position. and, of course, it very much follows from what i've been saying in answer to the shadow foreign secretary that we believe the apparent offer to negotiate by president assad must be it'sed, absolutely. so we will certainty do that, and the right honorable gentleman and i will agree strongly on that. you would have to think if he was of in government today that if that doesn't work and over the last two years it hasn't worked, then what else do we do? and -- well, he says from a sedentary position it hasn't been tried, it's been tried countless times. kofi annan went to damascus countless times. every possibility has been given to the regime to negotiate, and they have never entered into a sip sere or meaningful -- sincere or meaningful situation. that being the case, it is not adequate to watch slaughter on this scale and say we will stick our heads in the sand about it. it is important to have a foreign policy that relieves humanitarian suffering and upholds human rights. and i would have thought that was something the right honorable gentleman would always have been in favor of. >> mr. richard ottoway. >> the foreign secretary's position in not supplying weapons to the rebels, it is perfectly clear that someone is supplying weapons to the rebels at present, and isn't the -- [inaudible] will end up fighting against a shia-backed militants backed by iran, lebanon and iraq sometime in the future? >> um, well, of course the increased sectarian nature of the conflict is one of our great concerns. that is the reason why we have to do everything we can to, everything we can reasonably do to shorten the conflict. because that will only get worse as this goes on. the conflict in syria is already militarized, as my honorable friend says, weapons are being obtained by all the factions fighting in syria including by the military council working with the national coalition. but i feel the longer it goes on, the more it will have a sectarian nature, and the more there will be opportunities for extremists to take hold and, therefore, giving our assistance to moderate forces forces and no extremist forces is one of the ways in which we can try to shape this situation in a more sensible direction. >> [inaudible] >> what consideration, if any, is being given to the possibility of implementing a no-fly zone? >> well, a no-fly zone is sometimes advocated, including at international meetings. but i think the greatest difficulty with a no-fly zone is that, of course, it is a response of a totally different nature. it is a military intervention. it is what we have been talking about and many honorable members have been warning against. it would require military force externally on a very substantial scale. now, a good argument of principle can be made for that and of relieving humanitarian suffering by doing whatever is necessary. but the willingness of nations around the world to implement such a military intervention is limited for understandable reasons and, indeed, such a no-fly zone, i think, could only in practice be done with the full participation of the united states of america. and so there are major practical difficulties in doing it. what we must not get into is saying that there are protected areas, that there are humanitarian corridors and then not being able to protect people. there is a sad and tragic history of those things, and so we should only take the step the honorable lady is talking about if the world, the international community was truly ready to bring that about. >> [inaudible] >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. my right honorable friend, mr. speaker, is quite right when he says that syria is being shielded by some countries in the united nations, not least, of course, we know that russia had the opportunity to bring about some sanctions early on in the united nations security council. could i ask my right honorable friend to start talking to his counterparts in the european union and, indeed, in the united states to actually try and say to the russians if you don't want to take part of this, you get on the ground, you do this. and if the russians refuse to take that course of action, are willing to stand by and let tens of thousands of people to be slaughtererred, then we should work with our european partners and the u.s. and say we're not going to come to your country to showcase your country in the world cup in 2016. 2020, sorry. >> right. my honorable friend, we must put every, use every art of persuasion we know in our talks with our colleagues in russia. and i can assure him that we do that. the shadow foreign secretary argued that we must put the case to russia about the growth of extremism in syria and so on. and we do. i have lost count of the number of occasions that i and other western ministers have put the case to our russian counterparts that everything russia most fears in syria is more likely to come true the longer the conflict goes on, including the rise of international terrorism and instability in the whole region. they, clearly, have a different analysis. we haven't had any meeting of minds on that. i'm not a great fan of sporting sanctions, i have to say, and as a country that just hosted to olympics, we have a good, well-established position on that, but we will use every other art of persuasion in dealing with russia. >> mr. nigel dobbs. >> the assad regime is clearly barbarous -- [inaudible] but does the foreign secretary understand the concerns of many of our constituents who read issues about atrocities and war crimes of the rule of al-qaeda and who express concerns about support and help that will be going for good and proper reasons that have been set out in good faith and helping people who are deeply hostile to western interests and also equally guilty of some terrible crimes against humanity? >> yes, of course. people are right to be concerned about any atrocities or any opportunity for international terrorism of to take hold in a new place. now, that's one of the reasons why we with cannot just turn away from this crisis. but it's also why, and this is another of his questions, the assistance we give must be very carefully thought out and monitored. and, of course, the all the assistance i have talk about, all the equipment i've talked about is nonlethal. we monitor to the best of our ability its use, and if it was misused or fell into the hands of groups we did not intend it for, that would have a serious impact on our willingness to provide such further assistance in the future. but i do want to stress that while people, of course, read about and we are concerned about in the way i've described the opportunity for extreme u.s.es to take -- extremists to take hold, the great majority of the people who are involved even in the fighting in syria from what we can see and tell and certainly the opposition leaders that i meet are people who sincerely want a future for their country that has nothing to do with extremism and or or record im. and we must not -- and terrorism. and we must not leave those people feeling abandoned by the world. >> dr. julian lewis. >> unfortunately, the record of moderates in standing up against extremists in such situations isn't all that great. does the foreign secretary accept that our sworn enemies, al-qaeda, are fighting on the side of the opposition and that, therefore, our concern is that if and when the appalling assad regime is overthrown as the government bushes, its chemical -- wishes, its chemical weapons stocks will fall into al-qaeda's hands? what practical guarantee can the government give us that that will not happen? i asked this question on monday, it wasn't satisfactorily answered, that's why i'm asking it again. >> well, no one, mr. speaker, can give any guarantee. this is why a political transition is needed in syria. this is why what should happen is an orderly transition. because there are, certainly, there are in syria terrible weapons, chemical and biological weapons. and that's why i think it's important to be clear that there is no military-only solution, whatever one's point of view to the situation in syria. and so those chemical weapons are best safeguarded in a peaceful transition. that's why we have to keep up the argument. but without giving additional assistance to the moderate elements of the opposition, if we were not to do that, we would be reducing rather than enhancing the prospects for such an orderly transition. >> mr. mike gates. >> thank you, mr. speaker. isn't the reality that it would be more secure and more in our enters to have a no-fly zone than to arm the opposition? because we can keep control of the equipment in a no-fly zone, and we can't if we hand it over to jihadist groups? but isn't it also the reality that the united states administration and some neighboring countries including turkey are against a no-fly zone and, therefore, we're not able to do it? >> well, to have a no-fly zone -- by the way, just to be clear, i've not announced arming the opposition, so this is something different. this is increasing the level of assistance we give to the op suggestion, and it was non-- opposition, and it was nonlethal equipment. but he is putting the case for an external military intervention rather than moving to any policy in the future of lethal equipment, supporting heath call equipment going into syria. there is a respectable case for that. but i made the point to his honorable friend earlier that to do that there would have to be the willingness on part of a large part of the international community, almost certainly including the united states, to do that. there would have to be that willingness so that we were not making a false promise to people of safety. syria is a country that continues to have strong air defenses with very modern equipment, and the implementation of a no-fly zone would be a very large military undertaking. and so it's important that those who advocate, and bear that many many -- bear that in mind. >> sir general powell. >> however distressing the picture we see on our television, and it is indeed diss stressing, i'm extremely concerned that the united kingdom's hand is being drawn ever closer into this mangle, and i share all the concerns and say what confidence does the foreign secretary have in his belief that these what he calls, i think, the moderate and democratic forces can be assisted and will, therefore, be in charge of a postconflict syria? because if he's not confident, then what we will be faced with is more bloody jihadists. and i hope my honorable friend will completely rule out the use of britain's armed forces who are already greatly overstretched. >> well, what i'm confident about, i fully understand my honorable friend's concern, and is that giving support, giving the active support of the kind that i've described to that moderate and democratic opposition is the best with way to help insure that this they are the ones who are successful. their chances of success will be less in standing up to extremists, our honorable friend rightly pointed out that very often the moderate forces who lose out to extremists in these situations, their chances will be less the longer this goes on and theless support they receive from outside. so we have to make a choice about when we are prepared to give that support. and i think it's the right choice for the united kingdom to increase the level of support to people who we would be prepared to see succeed. >> mr. jeremy corbin. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the situation in syria is, obviously, appalling, and the humanitarian crisis is absolutely devastating. but at the end of every war, it requires a political solution of some sort. could he tell us what serious negotiations are upside taken with saudi arabia and qatar who are fundamentally the funders of the opposition forces in syria and what serious engagement is being with the goth of iran particularly on bringing about some kind of comprehensive peace negotiation and peace process? because without that there will be more suffering, more deaths and more difficulties for everybody. >> well, the honorable gentleman makes a fair point in that regional powers were able to agree among themselves about the situation and about a solution, that would be an enormous step forward. just as if the fife permanent members of the u.n. security could council were able to agree, it would be a vital step forward. there have been such attempts. and, in fact, through last autumn the egyptian government convened a group of egypt and saudi arabia and iran and turkey to consider the situation together and see if they could come to an agreed way forward. i have to tell him that that group did not come to an agreed way forward. that's not to say such a group can't be revised in the future. we have absolutely no problem with such a group being assembled. it can be revived. but it didn't succeed, and it didn't succeed pause iran has not -- because iran has not been prepared to come to an agreed way forward with other countries in the region. it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried again. >> bob stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. in this civil war, foreign secretary, it seems there is a military stalemate between two sides who have military forces. under those circumstances and considering each side claims that it wants to negotiate, is there any chance that we can put all our efforts into getting a ceasefire arranged so that in that ceasefire when the guns stop and civilians stop being killed, we might actually be able to use politics to solve the situation? >> here, here. >> in this, again, is a very good thought although, again, we have -- it has been tried. it should be tried again. of course, in any negotiated way forward a ceasefire would be a very important element of the early part of such negotiations. my honorable friend may recall that last summer the u.n. envoy pa himmy -- brahimi proposed a ceasefire, and there was some hope for a short time that it would be implemented. there were many efforts to implement it in parts of of syria. but it broke down after a very short time, within days the ceasefire had completely broken down. and, again, that doesn't mean that shouldn't be top of the agenda of negotiations. but as my honorable friend can gather, we don't have successful negotiations for the moment, much as though we will discuss that with mr. brahimi this often. >> ms. stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. could the foreign secretary tell us the discussions he's had with turkey and what turkey's attitude is towards easing the arms embargo. >> turkey is very supportive of the change that the european union has made in the arms embargo, and indeed, turkey has a forward-leaning approach, let's just say, to this crisis. and and the turkey foreign minister was here, he would not only say what i have said, but a great deal more about the need for international support to the coalition. i'll be meeting him again tomorrow here in london when he come toss the friends of yemen meeting. but turkey's certainly very, or very sportive of this announcement and of the change to e.u. policy. >> mr. bernard jenkin. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i welcome my friend's right honorable statement. i note that he does not rule out any option, and in specific answer to my honorable friend's question, he does not rule out military intervention. while no country is yet advocating that, if syria is meant to be part of a primary interest in our national security strategy, are we quipped to deal with this crisis, and to what extent should he be talking to his opposite member, my right honorable friend the defense secretary, about what contingencies should be laid and, indeed, what additional expenditure is required in order to give us the capacity to at least influence the security situation around problem? >> well, of course, the defense secretary and i discussed the whole range of international affairs on an almost continuous basis, and we make the decision about our policy on syria in the national security council or in the cabinets. we discussed in this yesterday at the cabinet, and the defense secretary and i are very much of the same mind and work closely together on all contingencies. the minister of defense has planned for, as my honorable friend knows, for a great range of contingencies. it's not helpful the to speculate, for ministers to speculate about those contingencies, and i stress as i've made clear earlier that we're not calling for, nor are we planning a military intervention. the discussion in the interor national community is ability the -- is about the degree of support rather than an external intervention. so we will plan for our contingencies, but that is the context and the background to any military role in this crisis. >> ms. louise helmand. >> thank you, mr. speaker. what does the foreign secretary think is the likelihood of chemical weapons being used in sur ya or for -- in syria, or for those weapons to be moved to hezbollah in lebanon, destabilizing the wider region? >> we are, as i said in my summit, increasingly concerned about the regime's possible use, possible willingness to use chemical weapons. and we're always concerned, as are many other countries in the region, about the transfer, any transfer of those weapons. to other groups or to other countries in the region. and we send the strong message that i gave if my statement -- in my statement. the president of the united states himself has given a similar strong message about the use of chemical weapons by anybody and including the syrian regime. i think it's very important for them to hear that message or the world will be determined that the individuals responsible are held to account if chemical weapons are used. >> mr. martin woolward. >> i strongly support the foreign secretary's stand on this very difficult issue, and will he tell mr. bog canoff this afternoon that with a million fled and as many as 100,000 dead, it stands in comparison with the rwandan genocide which led the international community with responsibility to protect doctrine in the first place and that russia should engage with the forces or face the prospect of a jihadist regime which neither we, nor they would want? >> basically i will tell him that, yes. absolutely. this is part of the argument, and as i said earlier, russia is concerned, rightly concerned about international terrorism. russians have experience with that themselves. but the, if this situation goes on for many more months or years, well, then we are going to see a much greater opening for such international terrorism. and it is, indeed, it is becoming a human catastrophe of immense proportions. so my honorable friend can be confident that i will make this argument in the robust terms he would want me to to my russian counterpart. >> [inaudible] >> mr. speaker, can i thank the right honorable gentleman for advanced copy of the statement? i do welcome the emphasis in his statement on humanitarian aid. i'm sure we'd all agree that it's time now for all nations to focus on a nonviolent resolution if at all possible. clearly, that's obvious. but yesterday israel said, threatened the security council as the right honorable gentleman knows that it cannot stand idle, as it puts it, if the syrian civil war spills over onto its border. now, it's a very serious position, and i'm sure the right honorable gentleman's aware of that, and we need to be doing everything we can to provide further confirmation, i think. >> absolutely. the honorable member is absolutely quite right. the danger of, that the spread regionally, the spread into other countries in different ways of this crisis is one of the reasons we cannot just watch it develop. we have to work out the best constructive approach, difficult though these choices are. to trying to push this crisis in the right direction at that dirr than drift in the wrong direct. and, indeed, any of the neighboring countries will take action if their borders are infringed, of course. we have agreed to the stawtioning of patriot missiles by nato in turkey. lebanon has been very concerned about clashes on its border. the jordanian and iraqi border is a tense place, and basketball that is even before we consider the golan heights and the iraqi border as well. so the regional dimension to this is of increasing and serious concern, and that's one of the reasons for this package of policy changes and announcements that aye -- i've given today. >> mr. edward lee. >> may i strongly reject the neo-con policies and ideas emanating from are our right honorable friend from kensington? what could be gained by our selling arms in this cauldron? have we forgotten the disastrous policy of arming the rebels in afghanistan? have we forgotten the atrocities being committed against christians in syria? what's wrong with basing our policy on life, not death? >> i've never considered myself a neo-con and don't use that, don't describe myself as that as foreign secretary. our policy must be very carefully calibrated, and my honorable friend draws attention to situations where, which have gone seriously wrong from the point of view of the international community. we've also, though, got to bear in mind if we look at the western fallinglands in the 1990s, the isolation of muslims in many parts of the world are a policy which for too long denied people any ability in an extreme situation to protect themselves. and so i think our policy, the policy that i have announced of doing what we can to protect civilian life is a necessary and proportionate response. >> mr. jeffrey robinson. >> mr. speaker, the foreign secretary's well aware there's no shortage of lethal weapons in syria at all. there's very little case for us supplying it and, indeed, putting it quite frankly, supplying four wheel drive vehicles as well as body armor to the opposition isn't necessarily driving around in this total personal immunity isn't best characterized -- [inaudible] credit for our policy or the civilians who continue to live amidst appalling suffering and danger. will you carry the whole house -- [inaudible] is a massive increase in our human tear assistance, and if you could find european partners into doing that, that's where his efforts ought to be directed. >> well, the right honorable gentleman can be pleased in that case because we have announced enormous increases in our humanitarian assistance. my right honorable friend who was here earlier announced when she attended the kuwait conference at the end of january a vast increase, a 50 million pound increase taking it to 140 million pounds. we're one of the biggest donors in the world to try to alleviate humanitarian suffering. i think he should be when he quotes the list of what i say we will be sending, i hope he will quote the full list about medical supplies, about water purification, measures that will help prevent the spread of disease so that the need to alleviate humanitarian suffering is this right at the top of our minds, and it is the, it is what britain is devoting by far the greatest resources to in all the effort we're putting into this crisis. >> mr. chrispin -- blunt. >> following any statement he was absolutely right to draw attention to the jihadists committing atrocities using explosive devices including car bombs. i have a british-syrian constituent who is on the verge of defying british citizenship. he has immediate family who have been killed by such a car bomb. she now wants to bring her parents to the u.k. simply to take up some respite from what is happening there. they're faced with an incredibly difficult journey in order to simply make the application to come here which now seems extremely difficult, um, even if they're able to succeed, even if they got here. if the circumstances are as i have tribed, um -- described, um, would he make clear that in those is circumstances an application for the parents to come here is the kind of thing that would merit his support? >> um, well, as my honorable friend knows, he's described the case very well, but such decisions are for the home secretary. and i can't say within all circumstances we will be opening doors for people to come to the united kingdom. there are, there's now a million refugees in other countries, as i said, but it is the responsibility of those countries that receive the refugees to look after them with international support, and i pay tribute to the generosity of the people of lebanon and turkey and jordan and iraq and what they're doing. and we're doing our best to assist with that. so i think that is the prime way for refugees to be assisted. but his question is a reminder that there are not only four million out of the population of 21 million who are displaced or are in desperate need, many of the remaining people are in extremely dangerous and stressful conditions and unable to pursue normal life in any way. so it is, it is affecting the great majority of the whole country. >> hugh bailey. >> the difference between factions in the opposition only makes the extremists stronger than they otherwise would be. but it also makes the process of staging negotiations extremely difficult, and the ability to determine who will be a government to syria when the regime falls absolutely impossible. so what is our government doing and allies doing to get greater coherence and common purpose within the moderate opposition? >> secretary. >> there is much greater coherence, mr. speaker, than for a long time. it's not surprising that it's difficult in these circumstances, of course, to bring together something like the national coalition. but it is, it is very much the best attempt that can reasonably be made to bring together those moderate and democratic forces. and it is there now to be negotiated with. quite often over the last two years it has been the refrain of some of the other countries on the security council or of the regime, well, we want to negotiate, but we don't have someone to negotiate with. now they do not have that excuse. the national coalition is there for them to negotiate with, and it is willing to negotiate. so the onus is now on the regime to show that it can seriously negotiate. >> mr. john barron. >> mr. speaker, i urge caution. human rights have said by arming the rebels we could be arming the terrorists of the future as well as escalating the violence. but would i bring the foreign secretary back to his comments over the weekend which did clearly indicate a change in thinking when it came to nonlethal support. to what extent were his comments a reflection of the fact we now get reports that president obama is thinking about changing his policy on this issue? >> i'm not aware of any inconsistency in what i've said. in fact, throughout i've said we don't rule out any options. i've said that for two years. and it would be a strange thing, indeed, as the situation got worse to start ruling out options when we've not done that at any period. so that's what i said today, and that's what i said at the weekend. but what we're actually proposing to do is what i've set out today, and my honorable friend will know from the announcement that secretary kerry made that it is closely related to what the united states has announced, they have announced $60 million of additional practical support but nonheath call support -- lethal support to the coalition, and i have announced $20 million to use a comparative figure that the united kingdom will provide. so our policy is closely aligned with the united states, but neither country is advocated the policies which my right honorable friend is so strongly opposed. >> roy. >> would the syrian rebels use armored vehicles during battle, wouldn't that be seen as the united kingdom giving lethal assistance? >> such vehicles are nonlethal quilt. that's how they are defined -- equipment, that's how they are defined. that applies as well to body armor. but the -- [inaudible] could advocate a different policy of not trying to save lives in syria. that is what he is suggesting in his question, that we say, no, we will not try to save lives, we will not send people who desperately ask for this kind of assistance even though they are slaughtered in huge numbers. well, that is his choice to advocate that policy, but i don't think that is either responsible or would give moral authority to our policy. >> newton. >> thank you. i'm very concerned for my constituents whose syrian christian family living in aleppo are being persecuted for their faith and their friends mudderred by the jihad u.s.es the secretary of state has mentioned. so what sort of assurance can be given to us that any british support is not helping rebels who are also islamic fundamentalists? >> um, this is a very important point, and it's important to stress as i did earlier to other questions that our purport is to the moderate and democratic forces in syria. and it's one of the reasons, of course, all our support i've set out is also nonlethal. but it also is important for us to monobest we can that -- monitor best we can the use of that equipment. if we thought that equipment was at any stage being used by people we had not intended it for, then our attitude would, of course, have to change dramatically. >> mr. paul flynn. >> the house is deeply united on the humanitarian aid. we're deeply divided on the oversimplified view of the foreign secretary who on this complex civil war he couldn't bring himself to mention the front who a jihadist group and a vital part of the opposition who have been accused of some of the most blood thirsty massacre of civilians, can he give an absolute guarantee that before we commit military equipment or personnel to syria there'll be a debate and a vote in this house to avoid us repeating what we've done so often in trying to punch our way, we dive beyond our responsibilities somewhere well, the honorable member, i'm sure, has been listening carefully and will know i've not advocated sending military equipment or personnel. and, of course, we have our conventions of which he and i are strong supporters in this house that when we take decisions in the house, and we will observe all of those conventions. but he will also have to defer with his long concern for humanitarian issues whether it would be right to be completely static in the face of this situation, and that is the alternative to what i have described. everybody, everybody is concerned, rightly, across the house about the humanitarian situation. but i don't believe it is responsible for policy to sit still in the face of a rapidly worsening situation. >> mr. james morris. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the foreign secretary or mentioned the increasing evidence of the involvement of the iranian regime in the arming of the assad regime. would he agree with me that there might be opportunities to put pressure on the iranian regime to desist in the context of the ongoing negotiations around the nuclear, the iranian nuclear program? >> well, i'm not sure the negotiations provide that opportunity to put that pressure. those negotiations are very focused on the nuclear program, and i reported to the house yesterday during foreign office questions the progress, but it's very early stage that was made in those negotiations that was made inial matty last week. i hi the pressure should differd the a different pressure, and that is that the world knows about these activities, that in the end in the syria it will be proved that the assad regime is doomed and that there'll be many people in syria who will not want to forgive iran for intervening with, in all the ways that i've described, including with armed personnel in what is happening in syria. >> jenny chapman. >> thank you, mr. speaker. how concerned is the foreign secretary at the u.n. high commissioner's comments this morning on refugees that they had underestimated severely the number of refugees that would be leaving syria, and they have barely 25% of the resources that they needed to deal with the now million people leaving the country? what is he doing with colleagues to make sure the lack of preparedness isn't allowed to continue? .. >> in supplying the additional 50 million pounds, my right honorable friend, the development secretary, took out total humanitarian support to nearly 140 million pounds. we are very good at not only pledging that, but delivering that as well. and not only saying we will write the check, but writing the check as well. and not all countries are as good. the $1.5 billion was pledged, now we have of to make sure other countries deliver on that promise. we are raising that. i've had many bilateral meetinga with other nations involved inv this over the next 36 hours, and we are raising that with each of these countries, that we all noo haveun to deliver on the pledges we have made. >> mr. raymond kishti. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the united states was one of the last leading countries to recognize the opposition. oppos. is there now and agree to join policy by united kingdom and the u.s.a.? is their joint policies? >> there is a joint policy to my honorable friend will notice that what secretary kerry announced last week, very close to what i am announcing this week. discuss it with them on several occasions last week in london. we have a very similar view of both of the gravity of the crisis and the need for increased action of the kind that i have been asked today in order to try to speed and resolution of the crisis. so he can be assured that london and washington are very closely online on it. >> john cryer. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i've heard many statements like this in years gone by, and most of the time would end up being involved in a quagmire from which we cannot extricate ourselves. i take it you that now we can't have a full debate in government with the possibility of a boat. >> i think it's important for the honorable member to distinguish situations where we, britain, may be involved in a quagmire where we are helping other people to try to get out of a quagmire. and that is what we're trying to do with this sort of assistance. we cannot turn aside requests for assistance, but, of course, in getting, i think this is the eighth statement i've given about syria, i'm always willing to come to the house and debate it. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. the foreign secretary but impact on the wider region. could become it on jordan, a key strategic ally with very limited resources that is facing a huge influx of refugees from syria? >> i pay tribute to the people and the government of jordan. i visited last summer the refugee reception areas, just inside the jordanian border. since then, the numbers involved have got much larger. there are over 312,000 refugees in jordan, most of them residing with host communities and families, but some are in camps. the jordanians have done a magnificent job. we discuss regular with them how we can help further. we're meeting with foreign minister of jordan tomorrow, and we will be discussing this further than. >> dr. phil fully. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the late father of the current president of syria, a very ruthless and murders individual did have the reputation of doing what he said he was going to do. by contrast his son is a fundamentally weak individual surrounded by stronger -- to what extent does defence secretary agree with me that the personal weakness the president of syria will make a diplomatic solution if not impossible very unlikely? >> my honorable friend is right that this is one of the -- describing an obstacle. there are of course, not only the president of city but other members of his family close involved, including his brother in the power structure in syria. and, of course, an entire system of finance and power and reward, an entire premed which president assad is simply the top. so a solution to this, a political diplomatic solution requires people much further down that david to agree that it is a good idea. that makes a very complex. that is one of the reasons of the negotiations by the regime are not actually followed up by serious negotiations. so it is indeed one of the obstacles. >> [inaudible] very bleak picture of a dangerous civil war with a toxic mix of iranian involvement, possibly al qaeda, and other extremists. even that, what assessments have the british government made of the alleged involvement of hezbollah and the conflict in syria? and for the potential for regional instability that would flow from that? >> there is some, there's potential that we have discussed for regional, including in lebanoncome and including in relations to hezbollah. and one of the dangers is of clashes on the lebanese border, the south of lebanon between hezbollah and the free syrian army or other elements of the syrian opposition. and let a lone syrian regime forces as well. so that is one of the dangers. i don't have any other evidence i can quote about hezbollah, but that in itself is a great danger. and is one of the reasons we are assisting with the stability of lebanon. in lebanon two weeks ago i announced additional british funding for the lebanese armed forces, who are a very important part of trying to keep that border peaceful, including our direct help of a construction of border observation post. and, of course, everything else that we are doing to try to bring about a resolution. >> my right honorable friend has always been clear that we've tried to stop the killing and find a peaceful solution. it a peaceful solution can be fined, if assad stays in power, would reveal to accept the to or have we reached a stage where a precursor to the 20 deal, assad moscow? >> it's not for us to decide he was in power from any other country, including in syria. it is of course the position of the syrian national coalition, of all opposition groups that they want the departure of president assad. but we will not be more like the syrian opposition than the syrian opposition. he has said he is willing to negotiate. that is appreciation we should support. but it is impossible to see, for any observer of these events, to see president assad ever again being able to unify our govern his country. we say he should go, but the opposition has offered to negotiate. that is a right. >> it is clear that the house shares the humanitarian urgency that the foreign secretary has taken in so well, but many also are concerned that that urgency should not entail -- a real agenda of some of the opposition forces. cannot acknowledge particular principles that have been expressed by the foreign secretary today? our foreign policy is inseparable from upholding human rights, protecting and it supporting international law? we must assist a democratic forces here in dire need of help that a been abandoned by the international community. we cannot look the other way with international law and human rights. when will we see those principles manifest and the governments engagement and other situations? >> well, they are. that may take us wider than the subject, absolutely wider than the subject. i welcome in china what the honorable member says. and, of course, this is the object of our policy more broadly in foreign policy. we are heavily engaged in conflict prevention, conflict resolution in somalia, in yemen, in sudan, and in a work that we do now to promote an arms trade treaty, to pursue my own initiative on preventing sexual violence and conflict. united kingdom, the united kingdom, continued has a strong record in conflict prevention >> several live events to tell you about today. the senate judiciary committee will work on several bills dealing with gun control and safety. the measures, including an assault weapons ban and an expanded background check system. that's live on c-span at 10 a.m. eastern. also at 10 on c-span3 president obama's nominee for interior secretary, sally jewel, will testify before the senate energy and natural resources committee. ms. jewel has been ceo of the outdoor company rei since 2005. and then on c-span, homeland security secretary janet napolitano testifies at a hearing on cybersecurity. the senate homeland security and commerce committees are considering ways to address cyber threats. that's at 2:30 p.m. eastern. >> original peoples, navy seals, the alamo, our environment and journalism, panels and discussions from this year's tucson festival of books live this weekend on booktv starting saturday at noon eastern with author timothy egan on the photography of edward curtis. at 4:30, katherine bowers on what animals can teach us about health and healing, and sunday live starting at 1 p.m. eastern, rajiv chandrasekaran on afghanistan. panels and authors from the tucson festival of books, part of booktv live this weekend on c-span2. >> the united nations security council may vote tomorrow on a resolution to um pose stronger sanctions -- impose stronger or sanctions against north korea because of recent nuclear tests. many return north korea is threatening to cancel the 1953 ceasefire that ended the korean war. this week the house foreign affairs committee held a hearing on north korea's nuclear program and the effectiveness of u.s. and u.n. sanctions. this is two hours. >> this hearing on north korea will come to order. on february the 12th, north korea conducted its third test, its most powerful test to date, a nuclear weapon -- a smaller weapon because north korea is working on miniaturizing its weapon in order to place it on the head of an icbm. this followed december's launch of a three-stage intercontinental ballistic missile. so we've had test after test, we've had broken promise after broken promise and successive administrations both republican and democrat have clung to an unrealistic hope that one day north korea will suddenly negotiate away its nuclear program. it's a hope that in 1994 many of our senior members here shared when we passed the nuclear framework agreement, 19 years ago with north korea. but during that whole period of time that we attempted to engage, we found instead that north korea was perfecting their weapon, was violating those negotiations. so the approach that we have taken has failed. and three nuclear tests later i think we have to be realistic, we have to find a better turn. alternative. a failed approach to north korea doesn't result many just a more dangerous -- in just a more dangerous situation on the korean peninsula. in it, in fact, has resulted in a more dangerous world. we know that north korea helped build the carbon copy of their program in syria on the wangs of the euphrates -- the banks of the euphrates. we also know that iran has directly benefited from north korea's long-range missile technology. we suspect that they have benefited from the nuclear tests. last month ranking member engel and i were in northeast asia, and it is clear from our discussions there that our north korea policy must change. today we will look at the illicit activities that are underwriting north korea's weapons programs. we're going to look at its illicit missile sales abroad, at its meth trafficking. this is the only country in the world that manufactures and then traffics in meth. we're going to look at their counterfeiting of u.s. $100 bills, and we're going to think about the reason why this country has been called soprano state. we'll hear from one witness who will testify that north korea's illicit money-making machinery continues to turn. but it is this dependency by the regime on illicit activities that can, in fact, be exploited. this is the achilles heel x we did this once -- and we did this once. in the fall of 2005, the bush administration targeted the macau based banco delta asia for its money laundering role while u.s. money was being counterfeited. they were laundering for north korea. and this led other banks in the region to shun north korean business which finally isolated the regime and cut off its ability to get hard currency. however, after kim jung-il made promises on its nuclear program, the pressure was prematurely lifted. today the current administration has done little to target north korea's illicit activities. instead, the administration has deferred to a policy over at the united nations and has opted for strategic patience. the purpose of today's hearing is to examine how best to pressure north korea's ruling elite by systematically restricting their access to that hard currency on which they depend. we'll hear from one witness who has firsthand experience spearheading such an effort. we'll be introducing legislation based on some of the ideas we'll hear today. it is important to realize that we have more options other than to simply rely on beijing to do more. disrupting north korea's illicit activities will place tremendous strain on that country's ruling elite who have done so much harm to the people of north korea. we must go after kim jong un's illicit activities like we went of after organized crime in the united states; identify the network, interdict shipments and disrupt the flow of money. this would sever a key subsidy for north korea's weapons of mass destruction program. for only when the north korean leadership realizes that its criminal activities are untenable do prospects for peace and security in northeast asia improve. i will now turn to our ranking member, eliot engel of new york, for his opening comments. >> well, thank you very much, mr. chairman, and i'd like to thank you for calling this timely hearing and for your leadership in addressing the north korean threat. i would also like to say publicly that it was a privilege to travel to the region with you earlier this year to discuss north korea, with top leaders in seoul, tokyo and beijing. the recent nuclear test conducted by the north was a dangerous provocation that raised tensions in northeast asia. it reinforces the fact that pyongyang poses a serious threat to the national security of the united states and our allies in the region. following the test, the house overwhelmingly passed a strong bipartisan resolution authored by chairman royce and myself condemning the north's irresponsible action. among other things that resolution called for the united states government to use available legal authorities and resources to defend our country's interests against north korea, north korean illicit activities which is, of course, the topic of today's hearings. north korea's nuclear tests, ballistic missile launches and attacks against south korea have been obvious to the entire world. what has drawn less attention is the fact that north korea engages in a wide array of illicit activities to support its military program and leadership. the north korean regime's criminal conduct including drug smuggling, weapons trafficking, the sale of nuclear and ballistic missile technology to rogue regimes in iran and syria and the counterfeiting of u.s. currency, cigarettes and pharmaceuticals serve as a lifeline to keep itself in power. proceeds from these criminal activities are distributed to members of the north korean elite including senior members of the military and are used to finance the top leadership's lifestyle. they're also informed in -- invested in north korea's military programs. i am one of the few members of congress who have been to north korea, and i've been there twice. i visited the capital on both occasions, and i can tell you that the north korean regime would do better to help its own people rather than spend time and money on nuclear weapons and missile technology in defiance of the international community. the north korean regime practices what experts have called criminal sovereignty. in essence, pyongyang uses state sovereignty to protect itself from outside influence and interference while dedicating a part of its government to or carrying out activities in violation of international law and the domestic laws of many other countries. for north korea these criminal activities are viewed as necessary to maintain the power of the regime with no regard for the fact that they are corrosive to international law and order. so the question is what steps can we take to combat north korea's illicit activities, and can our efforts to prevent these activities be used to pressure north korea to abandon its nuclear weapons and ballistic missile l programs? now, i just heard on the news this morning that the agreement has been made ostensibly with china to punish north korea for its missile launching nuclear tests. i hope that china will not do what it's done in the past and agree to sanctions and then just erode those sanctions so the sanctions really never took hold. i hope that china will finally understand that the north korean regime is a threat to stability in that region of the world and in many regions of the world. because as chairman royce pointed out, korea, north korea is a rogue state helping countries like syria trying the to obtain nuclear weapons and collaborating with iran. i want this committee to know that on this issue there is not a millimeter's worth of difference between the chairman and myself. we both view the north korean regime as a threat and one that needs to be contained. i want to tell you the first time we took the trip to north korea was probably about nine, eight or nine years ago, and one of the first things we noticed in the pyongyang was the billboards that were all across the country. one of the billboards still sticks in my mind. it showed a north korean soldier bayoneting an american soldier in the head, in his helmet. and we knew it was an american soldier because on his uniform it said "usa." so the regime is endemically hostile to the united states and warrants watching, and i look forward to our witnesses' testimony. this is really very, very important, and we have many pressing concerns all around the world, but we ought not to forget about the pressing concern with north korea. we ought to stay focused on the region. i thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. engel. in this morning we're joined by a distinguished panel of experts, dr. david asher is a non, is a senior fellow at the center for a new american security. previously dr. asher served as senior asia adviser at the state department. he was the coordinator for the north korea working group that attacked kim jung-il's illicit activities and finances. dr. sung-yoon lee is a professor at the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tufts university. known for his ability to turn a phrase, he has written extensively on the korean peninsula including a recent piece entitled "don't engage kim jong un, bankrupt him," which appeared in foreign policy magazine recently. ambassador joseph de trani is president of the intelligence and national security alliance. he's served as the special envoy for six-party talks with north korea in 2003. from 2010 to 2012, she was the director of the national counterproliferation center. and without objection the witnesses' full prepared statements will be made part of the record, but i'm going to ask each to summarize your testimony to five minutes, and we'll begin with asher. dr. asher. >> chairman l royce, ranking member engel and other distinguished members of the committee, i want to thank you sincerely or for this opportunity to testify on a matter of truly grave concern, the growing nuclear proliferation risk of the north korean regime and the need for a fundamental new policy approach to comprehensively address that threat that north korea poses to asia and the world. in short, our diplomatic efforts which i was part of along with ambassador de trani in the six-party talks have objectively failed. unfortunately, is so have our effort ors to counter the proliferation activity and nuclear procurement of the north korean regime. i believe in the next 24 months north korea's regional and global threat will go from bad to worse. not only do i fear they will deploy nuclear warheads including directly against the united states and our allies, i am concerned that the chances of north korea, porting nuclear weapons -- exporting nuclear weapons to iran is alarmingly high if, indeed, something has not already occurred. north korea has one and possibly two nuclear weapons production facilities. with one centrifuge planned alone. with two with it could be 26-37 nuclear weapons. this is on top of the 10-12 weapons that are publicly estimated to already be in north korea's arsenal. north korea does not need 30-40 or 50 nuclear weapons. north korea does need money, and my concern is that the regime needs money this particular as a young regent takes power to cement his position, so solidify his control over the military and pay for his expanding and highly expensive wmd programs which he's been putting on prominent display in the streets of pyongyang during these recent parades. the nation that has the money and need for material including enriched uranium most obviously is the government of iran. in mid july 2002, korea's president led a high-level delegation to damascus, syria, for a mysterious purpose. on july 18th an agreement was signed between the government of syria and the government of north korea. in hindsight, this scientific agreement was the keystone commencing the covert nuclear cooperation between north korea, its general bureau of atomic energy and its counterpart, the ssrc inside the syrian government which is in charge of weapons of maas destruction. mass destruction. ominously, president kim young name recently led a similar delegation to iran. almost identical to north korea and syria in 2002. the iranian retinue attendant at the ceremony included the minister of industry mine and trade, the defense minister and most ominously, the head of the atomic energy association in iran. they also had high-level discussions on coordinating key strategic issues. we can only guess what those are. it is time to stop the complacency on count orerring and disrupting north korea's machinery and the malevolent regime before serious damage occurs to global security. working closely with our allies, we need to organize and commence a global program, a comprehensive action targeting pyongyang's apparatus, its facilitators, its proxies, its overseas presence. we need to sabotage their nuclear missile programs. we also need to revive an initiative identifying and targeting the kim regime's financial lifelines including illicit sources of revenue and overseas financial nest egg spank accounts especially in china -- bank accounts especially in china. trading companies and banks who continue to illegally facilitate access for north korea themselves should be targeted. finally, the united states should commence a program to influence the internal workings of the north korean regimes to undermine the kim dynasty and ultimately lay the groundwork for a change in the regime if it doesn't change fundamentally. bringing about a change will require a top-down, determined effort across the whole of government and among a league of willing foreign partners similar to the initiative i had the opportunity to run. organizing such an initiative will require considerable energy and commitment including oversight of your committee. i appreciate this opportunity to make this testimony before you. thank you. >> thank you. we'll go to mr. lee. >> thank you, mr. chairman, members of the committee. sixty years ago today on march 5th, 1953, the soviet leader, stalin, died and the prospects for ending the korean war improved dramatically. and we had a ceasefire agreement signed in july, july 27th, and the past 60 years has been a history in dramatic contrast. south korea has risen to be one of the world's most successful cases on how to build a free and affluent country while north korea has become a model, an exemplary failed state marked by a brutal regime that has maintained power through hereditary succession, extreme internal repression and also military extortion. my point here is that the kim dynasty, the dprk is engaged in a systemic contest for pan-korean legitimacy which is the more legitimate representative government representing the entire korean nation. it's a contest that north korea cannot win. hence, north korea associates financial crimes, earnings derived from such activities, nuclear blackmail and repression as a necessary condition to its self-preservation. this odd approach practiced by the regime has created a country that is quite abnormal, i would call it grammatical impropriety not withstanding, uniquely unique. let me illustrate. north korea is the only country in the world, it is the world's sole hereditary communist dynasty. it is the world's only case of an industrialized, urbanized, literate peacetime economy to suffer a famine. it is the world's most cultish, isolated country, albeit one with the world's largest military in terms of manpower and defense spending proportionate to its overall population and national income. the result is this abnormal state, one that is able to exercise disproportionate influence in regional politics commensurate with its territorial size, population size, economic power -- exceedingly small economic, political or soft power. and this north korea achieves principally through a strategy of external provocations and internal repression. in short, the leadership in pyongyang will not make concessions on its nuclear and missile programs unless it is confronted with a credible threat that calls into question the need for its continued existence. and the united states is sing harley well -- singularly well equipped to deliver this kind of pressure to the regime. this is due to the strength and attractiveness of the u.s. financial system and the pyongyang regime's low threshold for withstanding financial pressure because it is so overly dependent on illicit activities to maintain its own regime. the united states' treasury department should declare the entire north korean government a primary money laundering concern. this would allow treasury to require u.s. banks to take precautionary special measures, substantially restricting foreign individuals, banks and entities from gaining access to the u.s. financial system. treasury could also apply these measures to third-country business partners that finance pyongyang's shadowy economy, and the u.s. should also ask ally governments to apply core responding measures to third -- corresponding measures to third-country nationals doing business with korea moreover, the u.s. should expand the designation of prohibited activity to include those furthering north korea's proliferation, illicit activities, cash transactions in excess of $10,000, lethal military equipment transactions and, and the perpetration of crimes against humanity. north korea is the world's leading candidate for indictment for crimes against humanity. such measures would effectively debilitate, present north korean regime with a credible threat that would far surpass what took place against pan codel that asia in -- banco delta asia in 2005. i would urge congress to pass a bill that gives treasury investigative powers and requires the treasury department to investigate reports of suspicious activity, enforce u.n. security council resolutions and also clamp down on further perpetration of crimes against humanity. by linking human rights violations with financial sanctions, the united states could deliver a potent threat, a credible threat to the regime. thank you very much. >> thank you, professor lee. >> mr. chairman, ranking member engel, thank you for the invitation, members of the committee. it's an honor being here with you. >> thank you, ambassador. we appreciate your willingness to testify. >> thank you, sir. by way of background, in january 2003 north korea pulled out of the npt, the non-proliferation treaty, and told the iaea and monitors to leave the country. and that was after the united states told north korea that we knew they had a clandestine your rain upyum enrichment program which was in violation of the npt and other commitments they made with the agreed framework. we started the six-party process in august of 2003. it was of a two-pronged approach, by way of background. and in 2003 was the first plenary session. we told the north koreans we're looking at denuclearization but also at neuroillicit activities. we're looking at you counterfeiting our $100 bill, counterfeiting pharmaceuticals, getting very, very much involved with the counterfeiting of cigarettes, human rights issues for which we need transparency and you need to make progress on. it was a dual approach. in september 19th, you cited that, sir, september 19th, 2005, we had a joint statement. we had two things on the 19th of september, 2005. we had a joint statement committing north korea to denuclearization in exchange for security assurances, economic assistance and ultimately normalization. the normalization, before we'd even talk about that, they need to make progress on their illicit activities and human rights. and on the same day, the 19th of september, on the federal registry treasury moved forward based on, based on section 311 of the patriot act, the predicate being money laundering, and that was what you cited, sir, banco delta asia. the bank froze about $25 million of north korean currency. the impact was immense, because the measures to international financial institutions was very clear. if you do business with north korea and they're involved in money laundering, you could be apecked also. the -- affected also. the north koreans were upset with this for obvious reasons, because as you described, it caused significant pain. that was the model. unfortunately, we went back, unfortunately in the sense that a we went back to negotiations, and we proceeded with negotiations. they eventually got the $25 million back when the banco delta asia was in compliance with our laws, and we moved forward. but what happened was what you described, missile launches and nuclear tests in 2006 and 2009, 2012. so we're looking at four launches, three nuclear tests. during this period of time, we had three u.n. security council resolutions looking at sanctioning them. they're moving their money. we have executive orders coming out of treasury, executive order 13382, executive order 13551 which speaks to proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and the supporters where we would sanction those who are involved with wmd proliferation and anyone supporting them, a state, a bank, any entity. so we are looking at that. and commensurate with that, concurrent with that, we're looking at proliferation security initiative. that means the united states with over 90 countries have come together to say if north korea puts anything on the high seas and we have any information indicating that they're proliferating something, they're moving something they shouldn't be moving in violationing to security council resolutions, we would interdict those shipments. a number of these vessels were turned around at sea. a few of them were going to myanmar, and they went back to port in north korea because of the determination to do something with that. now, north korea persists. north korea persists with their human rights issues, and they persist with illicit activities, but they know very, very cleary if they want any -- clearly if they want any progress with the united states, certainly with the united states, illicit activities have to go by the wayside. this is causing pain, and i concur fully with my colleagues and with your statement, mr. chairman, these sanctions are biting. they're biting. it's causing north korea not to get access to the funds they need. they need to bite even more significantly, and they should have even more impact as we move forward with further, be you will, responses to the most recent nuclear tests. and there will be additional sanctions and additional activities. so the message is clear to north korea they have two paths, there will be further sanctions, they will become more of a pariah state, and they will find it even much more difficult to survive if they continue down the current path, or they can look to becoming a more legitimate nation-state and getting into the financial institutions and getting their economy back in shape and caring about the people. and basic to all of that is comprehensive, verifiable denuclearization and the ceasing of all illicit activities and transparency and progress on their human rights issues. >> ambassador de trani, thank you very much for your testimony. i wanted to go back to an observation that professor lee made. he noted that if sanctions are effectively imposed and hard currency is cut off, the rise in the number of disgruntled men in the party bureaucracy in the military or would more than any conceivable variation on artful nuclear diplomacy give the kim regime reasons to rethink its long-term strategy. and in the same vein, looking back on your efforts, dr. asher, in the last administration. you say that the effect of the campaign froze north korea out of key aspects of the international financial system. and that that produced a destabilizing internal effect that could have been magnified to compel north korea to abandon its nuclear program. pretty definitive statement. i wondered if you, if our panel might elaborate a little bit on the impact on the regime's financial lifelines and its effect on the regime's mindset with an eye toward whether this could be redone again if we went with legislation to try specifically to replicate what was done with banco delta asia. i'm working on legislation, and i wondered how could congress help in this vein. and we'll begin with professor lee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the notion that sanctions are not necessarily effective because they do not necessarily lead to regime change or a fundamental change in the behavior of autocratic states, i would say, is not particularly relevant to north korea. i would argue that north korea is uniquely vulnerable to targeted financial sanctions because, because unlike any other authoritarian governments in the world, the regime is so dependent on such revenue streams, illicit streams of revenue. so blocking, damming if not all, even some of those streams of revenue, would achieve secondary, tertiary effects in any sanctions regime which is to provide that regime, that target with a psychological threat of prolonged sanctions that would lead to a rise, increase in the number of disgruntled men in the north korean party, bureaucracy, military. this is an existential crisis for the regime. how much does the regime depend on such illicit earnings? well, we don't know for sure, but i know that dr. asher and others have estimated that as much as perhaps one-third or even as high as 40% of the regime's total trade and probable a much higher -- probably a much higher sum in terms of the regime's cash earnings are derived from such criminal activities. so north korea is singularly vulnerable to such targeted sanctions, i would say. >> i'll ask you, dr. asher, to chime in on that. i remember i was in north korea in 2007, and afterwards had an opportunity to talk to a defector who had worked in their missile program. and he told me how obtaining hard currency was so difficult that the whole production line at one point was shut down. i think he said for seven or eight months because they couldn't get the hard current is i to buy -- currency to buy on the black market gyroscopes that they needed for the program. but let me ask you your thoughts. >> well, i think the key to the effectiveness of our program of action during the bush administration's first term was we created a very sophisticated model working with ambassador de trani in his previous capacity and other members of the intelligence community as well as doing a lot of open source research on businesses. business withs have public records associated with them. we understood that north korea's football lifelines -- financial lifelines were centered outside of north korea. north korea did not have its own internal banking system. it was largely in places like southeast asia and austria and hong kong and macau, places that we could get so. and given the fact that there was a disproportionate association between the high-level regime finances of kim jung-il and his family and illicit activities, we knew that by combining law enforcement as well as targeted regulatory actions involving the patriot act we could affect those finances. and we did so in a way that was aiming at specific individuals, specific actors, specific institutions. we didn't just go willy-nilly at this. there's a sort of black art behind the way this was conducted, and i think that's ooh why we had an effect. i believe the same could be done today, but it's going to require a use of of coercive force against chinese institutions and actors and trading companies that will require considerable resolve by the administration. >> ambassador, your thoughts and then we'll close. >> no, i agree with dr. asher. i think they are biting. i mentioned the executive order, treasury's executive order 13382 and their support ors. i mean, entities like the korea mining trading corporation, these entities are being sanctioned, but anyone dealing with them would come under the same ruling and have the same consequences. is, yes, and i -- in us to the sanctions which are biting and very, very important, i believe the proliferation security initiative by getting the countries, getting all our countries together to insure that north korea does not proliferate and does not receive the materials that are necessary to sustain their program so vital. and i think we're moving, i think, pretty aggressively and with significant success in that area. and as dr. lee said, i think it is biting. because eventually it's going to have consequences. you've been there, mr. chairman. there's two north koreas, the provinces where the leadership in pyongyang really doesn't care that much and pyongyang itself. well, eventually, these sanctions are biting those elites, those in pyongyang who rely on this flow, and that's going to cause some significant pressure on the leadership. and that, i think, is powerful. >> thank you. mr. engel. >> when chairman royce and i were in asia a few weeks ago, we raised with the chinese leadership situation in north korea. of wondering if any of you have thoughts about china and the role that it has been playing and the role that it might play in the future. i mentioned before that this morning i heard there was an agreement which china ostensibly was going along with, but we know that china has been propping up the regime for years. china is fearful that in case the regime were to collapse they'd have a million north korean b refugees moving into china itself and that china also would have a fear of south korea dominating a united korea and having a u.s. ally right up to its borders. i'm wondering if any of you can give me your thoughts on china's actions and what we can expect. >> um, i think china, and you mentioned that, i think china is a key player if not key to the north korean nuclear issue, certainly very, very instrumental in getting some resolution. i think china has been working it. it's been -- they modulate their approach because of what you cited, the potential for instability, refugees coming across the border and the concern about the weapons. but i think our objectives are similar, denuclearization. it's not in china's interest to see a nuclear north korea for the same reasons. if there's instability, there are weapons there. and that stuff can get in the wrong hands. one of the big issues we have and concerns we have is nuclear terrorism, the ability of some of this material -- it was cited a minute ago by the chairman in his statement and you mentioned that also, sir,al cabal. having this nuclear material in north korea, not only having nuclear material and weapons, it's the potential for that proliferating, and china is very concerned about that. so i think with china and now with the new government coming in, xi jinping and with the additional sanctions i think we'll -- i believe and hopefully we will turn a page and we will be more in concert with them and approach this issue in a very deliberate way to include a dialogue with pyongyang so they understand what the consequences are. there's no surprises here. so hay know what's -- so they know what's ahead for them, and they have a decision to make as to what path they want to take. >> dr. lee? >> with over the years it's become something of a chick louse that the chinese communist party will never give up on the korean workers' party, on the dprk. 60 years ago china had compelling reasons to intervene, to take a great risk and confront the united states-led u.n. forces in the korean war. today china has compelling reasons not to take that risk and to continue to develop its economy and grow richer by protecting the integrity of the international financial system. mao tse-tung was viewed as the leader of the asian revolutionary movement. for china not to take action as the dprk was falling would have had implications on his intention to liberate taiwan, and china had a fallback plan in the soviet union. today the emergence, the eventual emergence of one free korea, a single, united korea that is democratic, pro-u.s. and pro-china of necessity, it will be pro-china, poses no threat to the chinese. of course, the chinese won't move to destabilize pyongyang on their own initiative. so we, the united states, can give china that incentive. >> thank you. any thoughts about the negotiations that the north would like to have ostensibly with the united states? one of the things that sticks in my mind when i met with north korean officials, again on two occasions, was that they seemed to be disinterested in the six-party talk and more interested in bilateral talks with the united states. do you think that's still the case today? dr. lee or ambassador? anyone. >> i definitely think that is the case. it's always been the case. north korea has made it very clear they want a dialogue with the its united states, and the u.s. position has been this is a regional, it's a multilateral issue. but there are issues like the illicit activities we were talking about that are very unique to the united states. in many ways that's why the september 2005 joint statement has two pieces to it; resolving the nuclear issue, but also each country having a bilateral dialogue with the north koreans on issues that are unique to their respective countries. and that's been our approach with the north koreans, and they reluctantly -- given the fact they have no choice -- they've accepted that reality. but they, indeed, would prefer just dealing with the united states. >> well, thank you. i'm wondering if i could ask dr. asher a question, and i'll conclude with this: in your written testimony you talked extensively about the link between north korea and iran. i'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit what's your assessment of the effectiveness in crippling the north korean regime if sanctions similar to what we are implementing against iran are enacted against north korea? >> yeah. it is a very good question. it is quite startling to me that the sanctions that are imposed in the action programs imposed against north korea pale in comparison with those being pursued against iran today. north korea is a country that is not a theoretical enend riched uranium-producing, bomb-making nation, it is creating a large stockpile right now. itit has a proven track record f exporting every single military program it hasp developed as was evidenced in syria. the fact that the comprehensive iran sanctions eclipse those imposed against north korea, to me, is a clear indication of why our policy is in some ways upside down. north korea has the supply that iran needs of, basically, untarnished, unvannished, nonaffected nuclear material and capability. we should have proposed -- we did propose and we should have pursued an aggressive action against the north korean nuclear network equivalent of that against the a.q. khan network in afghanistan. it was something that the ambassador and i both believed fundamentally and we tried to convince the bush administration. we failed to do that. as a result, north korea's in a situation where it's relatively pristine in being able to supply the tools other nations may need. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> thank you, ranking member engel. we now go to ileana ros-lehtinen. >> thank you so much, mr. chairman. thank you for convening this important hearing, and most importantly for getting such great panelists before us today. our approach over the years in dealing with north korea has resulted in complete failure administration after administration. north korea has held america and the world hostage because pyongyang continues to pursue its goal of nuclear armament, thumbing its nose at the world while leaving its citizens malnourished, suffering from disease and, indeed, starving. north korea uses the same dangerous tactic time and time again, it dangles the idea that it is willing to denuclearize as a bargaining chip and then the kims renege on this. it was the bush administration's inability the to see that evil trick that led to the erroneous and dangerous decision to remove north korea from the state sponsor of terror im, sst list. despite the fact that ill illict activities continued. as we have seen in the last few months, north korea has only further advanced its ballistic weapons capabilities. i was vehemently against the bush administration's decision to remove north korea from the sst list and have continued to call on the current administration to place north korea back on the list for the sake of our national security and the security of our allies in the region including south korea and japan. the fact that north korea warned today that it would cancel the korean ceasefire in retaliation for more sanctions only reaffirms the threat to our ally, south korea. kim jong un has made his priorities clear, north korea is perfecting nuclear capability, supporting and equipping rogue regimes such as iran and syria. such support to other state sponsors of terrorism -- because i believe north korea belongs on that list -- should be more than enough for the united states to redesignate north korea on that list. i have introduced a bipartisan bill, the north korea sanctions and diplomatic nonrecognition act that would do just that. how extensive do you think the cooperation between these rogue regimes has been, i would ask the witnesses, and if north korea's allowed to keep its nuclear and ballistic missile program and successfully shares this material and technology with iran, the world is looking straight in the face of the most dangerous nuclear arms race that we could ever imagine. we know that north koreans need money, and one of the only ways that it can get that money is through these ill illicit activities, counterfeiting, drug trafficking, proliferation of nuclear and plussic missile technology and expertise to other rogue regimes. if iran is one of north korea's main sources of hard currency, how effective have recent sanctions been in limiting iran's access to cash, and what more needs to be done to insure that it cannot continue to finance its or north korea's nuclear program? another main source of aid for pyongyang is the help from china and russia. now, we know the news that china has reportedly agreed to support new sanctions at the u.n. on north korea, however, there have been no final agreements on the language. do you think that china will agree to meaningful measures, or will the chinese water down the sanctions to protect north korea? how can the u.s. convince china and russia to stop protecting north korea both at the u.n. and domestically? we must begin to have a comprehensive approach to our sanctions capability when we attempt to cut off these regimes from their source of income, and that's why i introduced the iran, north korea and syria non-proliferation accountability act which will prohibit assistance to any foreign government that has provided assistance to iran, north korea or syria, that would increase sanctions on any person or entity transferring goods, services or technology for the chemical, biological or advanced conventional weapons program of iran, north korea and syria. now, according to reports it may be possible that pyongyang's latest nuclear test was a test for iran and north korea. what are the possibilities that north korea was testing an iranian warhead? and would this be a game changer, and what implications would in this mean for u.s. policy toward iran and north korea? but i'm more interested in dr. lee's recommendations for legislation that we could file or pressure we could bring to bear to treasury, commerce and other agencies to enforce stronger sanctions. do you believe that those can be done through executive order? they should be done by congress? do you believe listing north korea as a state sponsor of terrorism would include all the legislation that you recommended or action that you recommended, dr. lee? one second. we'll talk later. >> go ahead, mr. lee. >> all of the above. but as ambassador de trani mentioned, we have executive orders; 13382 signed by president bush in 2005 and 13551 signed by president obama in 2010. the question is enforcement, the political will to enforce those measures, to clamp down on proliferation act tufts and to punish third-party institutions, chinese banks and so forth. >> thank you very much. political will. thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> yes. we'll go now to mr. mr. faleomavaega. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, north korea remains as winston churchill once said of the soviet union a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. we have only the slightest glimpse of what its leaders are like or what they are thinking. this includes the new 28-year-old leader, president kim jong un. that is why the opportunity presented its when a basketball star named dennis rodman and his recent visit should not be completely dismissed as trivial. by my calculation, dennis rodman has now spent more face time with north korea's new leader than any other american. as i recall, mr. chairman, we were dismissive of the invitation that the american ping-pong or table tennis team received to visit china while playing in a tournament in the japan in april 1971. china, with a legacy of the korean war and ongoing great culture revolution, was much a pariah state as north korea is depicted today. however, it should be noted that this so-called ping-pong diplomacy changed world history with the american president named richard nixon awe arrive -- nixon arriving in beijing less than a year later. it is my understanding president kim jong un loves basketball. sometimes sports, mr. chairman, can have a process result on diplomacy. as i noted in a recent article in a korean newspaper as only nixon can go to china, it now seems that my opinion at the height of the renewed tensions of the korean peninsula, in my opinion, only south korean president can seek to move national reconciliation between the two koreas. she took a fist step towards that reconciliation process by going to north korea in 2002 to meet with kim jung-il, the man widely suspected as being responsible for the death of her own mother. why did the president embark on that journey for peace? some in my opinion, she did it for love of country and for the tens of thousands of namelies divided by a demilitarized zone mandated by more powerful nations almost 70 years ago. yes, the south korean people are concerned about the nuclearization of the korean peninsula, but once again they will be the victims not of their choice. .. free but all the rhetoric has not stop north korea from the development of the nuclear weapons program. now have all the sanctions. china, a prominent member of the u.n. security council, shared an 800-mile long border with north korea. it remains beijing's primary goal to preserve a friendly relationship with north korea for obvious reasons. and that whatever the costs. anymore sanctions in my opinion, mr. chairman, may threaten pyongyang's survival but will not be seen as being in china's best interest. therefore, china does not enforce sanctions and didn't do so, sanctions in my opinion are largely meaningless. indeed, financial sanctions aid the chinese banking institutions which do business with north korea seems rather presumptuous. coming from a country like ours which owes china a debt of some $1.3 trillion, according to the latest report on national debt to other countries. mr. chairman, can you imagine that a heated situation, countries in asia setting off a nuclear arms race where these front-line states will develop and acquire their own nuclear weapons? nuclear arsenals in japan, in south korea, in taiwan, in indonesia, vietnam and the philippines and malaysia. it's not a scenario that conjures up a peaceful process for issue. the same can be said of countries in the middle east. iran fears israel's capability, nuclear capability. thereby bringing fear among the arab countries. the chain reaction continues. if i will add one thing, mr. chairman, let me make this one point clear. north korea is already a nuclear state. having its capability to of stockpiling some eight nuclear weapons. and i suspect it now has the capacity to produce even more nuclear weapons. my time is done, mr. chairman, thank you. >> if i could just ask, were you addressing the chairman when you said, when you said iran fears, fears israel and, therefore, is developing nuclear weapons capability? >> my point, mr. chairman, i wanted to say that this is what makes a sense of hypocrisy, the double standard of the whole nonproliferation policy. why is it that we continue to allow the five permanent members of the security council to hold onto the nuclear weapons, nuclear bombs, and then tell the rest of the world you cannot have them? this is where, in my opinion, may be wrong, why this sense of strange tension among the haves and have-nots? that's why -- >> i understand, but to quote former president to become sometimes the difference is attitude. the difference between states that is using something for defense, but other states that have intent to use it for offenses capability. since you address the question to me i -- >> by that, mr. chairman, we have a saying in the islands -- which means that three leaves do not move for nothing. there's a reason. there's a causation. this is perhaps one the issues to the whole nonproliferation movement, what we're trying to do is what's causing countries like iran and north korea to cling onto the nuclear weapons? that was the basis. thank you, mr. chairman. >> we're going to go now to mr. chabot, who is the chairman of the subcommittee on asia and pacific. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for calling this very timely hearing. i look forward to working with you in an effort to create stronger and more effective sanctions on the north korean regime. i think most of us agree that more needs to be done aside from the issuance of strongly worded responses from the administration. the usual routine condemnation from the united nations, and perhaps a slight tightening of sanctions from our western allies. we know that the primary opposition to our efforts comes from north korea's prime benefactor, communist china, and that without substantial cooperation from beijing, our efforts to curtail his illicit activity of the kim regime will be greatly hindered. this morning it was reported that the u.s. and china reach a deal and united nations on a new set of sanctions against north korea. it's not clear what the new measures include beyond possibly adding new companies and individuals to the financial and travel ban list. professor lee, you discussed how to use of executive orders 13, 382, and 13551, could actually freeze the assets of chinese entities assisting north korean proliferation activities, and that this pressure would induce beijing, hopefully, to cooperate. do you think this is an effective way to persuade china to work with the international community to pressure pyongyang? or do you think it would cause him a negative reaction from china's new leadership? china has already said it will not embargo oil for fear that if the north korean economy collapsed, it could send waves of refugees to china. what is the most effective way for china to work with the international community and pressure the kim regime, while also protecting its borders? >> thank you very much. the chinese are extremely pragmatic. there's a reason in my humble opinion that the chinese civilization is the oldest in the world on point of continuity and it is due to their resilience, hard work, and profound pragmatism. if the chinese were given financial disincentives, reasons to put it crudely, lose money, i think that would be more effective in gaining chinese, china's attention than other channels of diplomatic action. >> thank you very much. doctor, let me ask you, north korea arms a very large share of its income from illicit activities as you have mentioned. how important is it to the regime's survival and its military capabilities? and has the percentage of gdp originating from criminal activities changed in recent years? does it remain similar -- what would you suggest that the administration and congress to in this area that would actually do some good? >> i have no doubt that the interagency efforts in 14 different agencies including multiple department of justice agencies to investigate and implicate, and i can north korean entities including members of the leadership and leadership organs in the context of multi, of wide range of illicit activities, everything from counterfeiting to cocaine trafficking to counterfeit cigarettes, methamphetamine trafficking, including to the united states, you might be where the web a sting operation going on within the gambino crime family to our agent jack garcia, the 320-pound undercover fbi agent who was also in touch with north korea, which would run and the process was truly soprano state, given their obscenity for partnership they formed with a crime family. you know, i think we have a strategic level to a on her criminally. i think we cut the percentage of gdp considerably. i think we scared them. and when we say them, i mean the leadership of north korea all the way up to the love of kim jong-il. than in 2006 those efforts were abandoned by the bush administration and we've seen based on what i've heard from government collects, a slow recovery in the illicit act committees of the north korean regime. we've seen even more protracted increasingly weapons of mass destruction proliferation activity i believe behind scenes. these are not always in the same pot that they ultimately ever has to get the revolution funds to kim jong-il, no most exclusively the source of those funds will be some type of illicit conduct. conventional trade issues not very profitable for north korea. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. we go to mr. brad sherman, ranking member on the terrorism, nonproliferation, and trade committee. >> thank you. i usually agree with my colleague from american samoa, but i do want to address briefly his view that there is hypocrisy in america's nonproliferation policy. in the world has avoided the destruction that many predicted when the nuclear genes was unleashed in 1945, chiefly because of the nonproliferation treaty. iran and north korea are in violation of the treaty. the five permanent nations on the security council are in full compliance because they signed as nuclear states. india, pakistan, israel are non-signatories. defending the treaty is critical, since without it, i'm sure that there would be dozens of nuclear states and we would've experienced several nuclear wars i now. i would also point out that iran has no legitimate fears, no even illegitimate here' heirs of isr. they do not share a border. israel has not called for a world without a persia.
that what my honorable friend asks for happens. i quite understand that when you launch a project like hs2, it does cause a lot of local concern, a lot of unease. that is why we will put in place a very generous compensation scheme. but i would say to my honorable friend, i think if we are going to win in the global race economically, we've got to make sure we invest in new infrastructure whether that is roads, bridges, tunnels or, indeed, roadways, high-speed rail. the rest of the world is getting onboard a high-speed rail, and it's clear we should too. >> i'm taking the exact sum out of the care sector's early intervention grant. seems to me me to be a classic example of giving with one hand and taking with the other. is the prime minister not acting in a manner more usually associated with his coalition partners? >> i don't accept that. it is important we make progress with rates of adoption in our country. far too many children are left for far too long in care when we know there are loving homes that they could be adopted into. and i think taking some of that money and encouraging local authorities to raise their game to improve what they do can transform the life chances of other people who have been stuck in care. we want to see more children adopted more quickly so more can grow up in a loving home. >> my right honorable friend join me in welcoming the news that new car sales are up 8% in february. [inaudible conversations] >> very happy to join my honorable friend in that. the fact is that the economy is rebalancing. we're seeing that in the export figures with some of the fastest-growing countries in the world. we see that in the fact there are a million more people in private sector jobs. we see it in the fact that the rate of new business creation is the fastest it's ever been. we see it in the pact that our economy -- in the fact that our economy employs more people than in our history. the deficit is down by a quarter, we're taking the steps we need to get our economy going, and as ever we have nothing constructive from the party opposite. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. i'm delighted to hear the prime minister say he agrees the payday loan industry is irresponsible. will he now, therefore, commit to make the one thing we know will be the difference and cap the charges? yes or no? >> i think the most important thing to today is to welcome wht the office of fair trade is doing, which is putting these companies on notice. if you don't have an effective regulatory sector, you do see more danger from loan sharks. >> one of the fastest emerging markets in which the u.k. is the biggest trade partner went to the polls to select a new government under a new constitution. yesterday i came back from talking with anthony king, tragically killed last week. would the prime minister join me in sending our condolences to dr. king's family and the people of kenya? >> well, i commend my honorable friend, and i join him in paying tribute to andrew king. we all want to see proper, free and fair elections completed, counted and finished in kenya and a proper democratically-elected government in that country and to make sure that there is justice when dreadful events like this take place. >> order. statement, the secretary of state for foreign and commonwealth affairs. "money rocks" "money rocks". >> secretary william hayes. >> mr. speaker, with permission i'll make a statement on the crisis in syria. the time has come to announce to the house necessary developments in our policy and our readiness to develop it further if the bloodshed continues. two years after it gans -- began, 10,000 people have died since i last updated the house in early january. that means more people have died in the first two months of this year than in the whole of the first year of the conflict. the total estimated death toll is now over 70,000 people. the regime has used scud ballistic missiles against civilian areas and there's evidence of grave human rights violations, war crimes and crimes against humanity including massacres, torture, summary executions and a systematic policy of rape and sexual violence by the regime forces and its militia. a year ago one million people needed humanitarian aid inside syria. that figure is now up to four million people out of a total population of 21 million. 40,000 people are fleeing syria each week, three-quarters of them women and children. the number of refugees have increased thirtyfold over the last ten months, and today the sad milestone of one million refugees has been reached. the population of lebanon which i visited two weeks ago has risen by 10% from the influx of destitute people. this is a desperate situation of increasingly extreme humanitarian suffering. there is no sign that the assad regime currently intends to enter into a genuine political process. they appear to believe they can defeat their opponents militarily, and they count on being shielded by some countries at the united nations security council. it will be necessary to turn each of these calculations on its head if the conflict is to come to a peaceful end. securing a diplomatic breakthrough remains, of course, our objective. last week i discussed it with john kerry here in london and other close partners with the friends of the syrian people in rome. in rome i also met the syrian national coalition's president and welcomed his brave announcement that the national coalition is open to direct talks with members of the assad regime. we continue our efforts to develop common ground with russia. i will have talked with the russian foreign minister later this afternoon and next week also here in london. and at the end of january, the u.n. and arab league special representative for syria set out a credible plan for the establishment of a transitional authority in syria. we're working with allies to achieve, if at all possible, security council backing for a transition process, and i'm meeting mr. bra brahimi again ao this afternoon. the fact is diplomacy is taking far too long, and the prospect of an mealed breakthrough is -- an immediate breakthrough is slim. lance armstronger number of refugees and confrontation. the international community cannot stand still in the face of this reality. our policy has to move towards more active efforts to prevent the loss of life in syria, and this means stepping up our support to the opposition and thereby increasing the pressure on the regime to accept a political solution. what we face is not a choice between diplomacy on the one hand and practical assistance on the other. helping the opposition is crucial to bringing about a political transition and saving lives, and both must be pursued together. we will always be careful in how we develop our policy, but our readiness to develop it further should be unmistakeable, particularly for the as 15d regime -- assad regime. what happens in syria is vital to our national interests for three reasons. the first is the growth of extremism. the vast majority of people opposing the regime are ordinary people trying to defend their commitments and gain freedom for their country, but syria today has become the top destination for jihadists anywhere in the world, and we're already seeing a rise in sectarian violence and attacks using car bombs. we cannot allow syria to become another breeding ground for terrorists who pose a threat to our national security. second, the crisis is undermining the peace of the region. there have been reports of clashes on the iraqi border and in lebanon. we are increasingly concerned about the regime's readiness to use chemical weapons. we have warned the assad regime that the use of chemical weapons would lead to a serious response from the international community. those who order the use and who use chemical weapons will be held to account. there's also credible information that iran is providing considerable military support to the regime true its revolutionary guard corps including personnel, weapons and direct financial assistance. third, we and our allies must always be prepared to respond to situations of extreme humanitarian distress. our foreign policy is inseparable from supporting international law. we must assist the genuine, moderate and democratic forces in syria who are in dire need of help and who feel abandoned by the international community. the longer this conflict goes on, the more human suffering, persecution of minorities, radicalization and sectarian conflict there will be. despite these three compelling arguments, there will still be those who say britain should have nothing to do with syria. but we cannot look the other way while human rights are flouted, and it would be height of irresponsibility to ignore potential threat to our own security. so i want to explain to the house today the next step in increasing our support to the syrian people, and i emphasize there may well have to be further steps. we have contributed nearly 140 million pounds in humanitarian aid so far. this is funding foot, clean drinking water, medical stabs, blankets and shelter for many tens of thousands of people. we're supporting the syrian national coalition's own efforts to deliver aid inside syria, and we will seek new ways to expand access for aid across the country while preparing to help a future government deal with the aftermath of the conflict. we've also committed a total of 9.4 million pounds so far in nonlethal support to the syrian op suggestion, civil society and human rights defenders. we've trained more than 300 syrian journalists and activists, and we're providing satellite communication devices to document human rights violences and abuses. i informed the house in january that we would seek to amend the european union sanctions on syria to open up the possibility of further assistance if the situation deteriorated. on thursday we finalized with our european partners a specific exemption to the e.u. sanctions to permit the provision of nonlethal military equipment and all forms of technical assistance to the syrian national coalition where it is spended for the approximate of civilians -- intended for the protection of civilians. this is important no our ability to help -- in our ability to help save lives. it can include advice and training on how to maintain security in areas no longer controlled by the regime, on coordination between civilian and military councils, on how to protect civilians and minimize the risks to them and how to maintain security during a transition. we will now provide such assistance, advice and training. we intend to respond to the opposition's request to provide equipment for search and rescue operations and incinerators and collection kits to prevent the spread of disease. we will help local councils to repair electricity and water supplies to homes, and we will also respond to the opposition's request for further water purification kits and equipment to help civilian political leaders operate and communicate. we will also now provide new types of nonlethal equipment for the protection of civilians going beyond what we have given before. in conjunction with the national coalition, we are identifying the protective equipment which will be of most assistance to them and likely to save most lives. i will keep the house updated, but it will certainly include, for instance, armored four-wheel drive vehicles to help opposition figures move around more freely as well as personal protection equipment including body armor. we will be able to provide testing equipment to the opposition to enable evidence gathering in the horrific event of chemical weapons use, and we will also fund training to help armed groups understand their responsibilities and obligations under international law and international human rights standards. any human rights violations or abuses are unacceptable on all sides. we've allocated nearly three million pounds in something this month to support this work and an additional ten million pounds thereafter comprising $20 million in nonlethal equipment and practical support to the syrian op is decision and civilian -- opposition and civilian society. and we hope other countries will offer similar assistance. the cabinet is in no doubt that this is a necessary, proportionate and lawful response to a situation of extreme humanitarian suffering, and though there is no practicable alternative. all our systems will be carefully calibrated and monitored as well as legal and will be aimed at alleviating the human catastrophe and supporting moderate groups. the process in this way was difficult, and the decision came down to the wire. we persisted with it because we believe it is preferable to have a united e.u. approach. in our view if a solution is not found and the conflict continues, we and the rest of the european union will have to be ready to move further, and we should not rule out any option for saving lives. in case further necessary amendments to the sanctions regime prove impossible to agree, we stand ready to take any domestic measures necessary to insure that core sanctions on syria remain effective. this is a situation in syria where extreme humanitarian distress and growing dangers to international peace and security must weigh increasingly heavy in the balance against other risks. with this crisis now becoming one of major dimensions with any standard with millions of people on the move and tens of of thousands dead, tens of thousands more in daily danger of losing their lives, the world's most volatile region and growing tension and political deadlock endured for two years, our policy cannot be static, nor our position indifferent. the situation of growing gravity requires a steadily more active approach. learning the lessons of previous conflicts and always emphasizing the need for a political and diplomatic result of the crisis but also being prepared to use increased pressure to try to bring this about. we will continue to keep the house properly informed as we press for an end to the conflict, provide life-saving assistance and work to insure that syria has the political transition which people deserve. >> [inaudible] alexander. >> thank you, mr. speaker. can i thank the foreign secretary for his statement and, indeed -- [inaudible] this month marks the second anniversary of the start of this brutal on flick. two years on, as the foreign secretary has rightly pointed out, the death toll is now estimated at some 07,000 and is rising -- 70,000 and is rising by the day. only today the united nations announced that the number of civilian refugees has now reached one million. half of these refugees are children. more than 400,000 since the first of january, 2013, alone. and more than 7,000 are reported to be fleeing every day. the united nations today declared that syria is spiraling towards full-scale disaster. so, mr. speaker, as the number of casualties rise, frustrations too have been growing, and this frustration has understandably led to renewed calls to the international community to do more. the primary responsibility for this crisis rests with assad and his regime. but, mr. speaker, does the foreign secretary accept that the deteriorating situation in syria also represents an abject failure on behalf of the international community and they share a collective responsibility for that? it is right that efforts must now intensify, but the key issue is the breadth of these efforts, how these efforts are channeled and how likely they are to deliver results? first, mr. speaker, on international diplomatic efforts, the stalemate at the united nations security council is more than just frustrating, it is deplorable. the case must be made to russia and china that supporting or aiding assad not only harms syria, but harms their own interests and, indeed, standing within the wider region. the can the foreign secretary or set out what recommendations he will make in london next week specifically on the prospects and the changes in the security council? separately on sanctions, the issue at present is not necessarily about new sanctions, but effective enforcement of existing sanctions. given his recent visit, does the foreign secretary agree with me that more must be done to insure that countries fully comply with the existing sanctions to which they have already signed up? third, on the issue of international accountability, the responsibility for the crisis as i made clear primarily rests with the assad regime, and the perpetrators must ultimately be held to account. does the foreign secretary agree that efforts to publish the name of syrian officers ordering the ongoing atrocities are vital as they could serve as a clear signal of spent that they will face -- of intent that they will face justice for their crimes and, of course, that includes the use of chemical weapons. fourth, on the issue of peace talks, the leader of the syrian national coalition, last month reportedly offered to engage in talks on a political settlement without demanding assad's resignation. in his comments in the interview given last week by assad, assad claimed he was ready to negotiate with anyone, including militants who surrender their arms. neither of offers have yet been accepted, nor can we make a judgment as to the spirit with which they were intended, but can the foreign secretary offer his assessment of whether or not they constitute t a slight narrowing between the gap of the syrian authorities and opposition forces? finally, mr. speaker, let me turn to the central issue of the u.k. support for the syrian opposition and the announcement and the statement made today. it is right that the u.k. is at the forefront of coordinating international efforts to deliver aid to those most in need both with within and beyond the syrian borders, and i welcome announcements to that effect. when it comes the our support for the syrian opposition forces, it is vital that all of our support must continue to be targeted and accountable if it's to be effective. so, mr. speaker, the foreign secretary has today said the government will move towards, and i quote directly, more active efforts to prevent the loss of life in syria. it is right that the international community must increase their efforts, but it is vital that the parameters of these efforts are clearly set out, defined and understood. indeed, on this issue the foreign secretary's statement at times raised more questions than answers as to the real direction he is suggesting for british government policy. the foreign secretary has today spoken of the amendments made to the e.u. arms embargo. i welcome the fact that these changes were agreed at the e.u. foreign affairs council. those amendments were focused on insuring that the right the to known lethal equipment could be delivered to opposition forces. but, mr. speaker, the work of the foreign office minister in the house on monday seemed to add some confusion to an already complex issue. when addressing the house on monday, the minister said, and i quote directly, this is not about lifting any arms embargo. mr. speaker, he then went on to say about the recent amendments to the existing e.u. arms embargo that it was about insuring that all options are on the table and that e.u. countries have maximum flexibility the to provide the opposition with all necessary assistance to protect civilians. mr. speaker, i think given these statements it is understandable that there is currently some confusion over the government's position that requires further clarification. so can the foreign secretary today say some more about the next steps that he anticipated in his statement? can he confirm whether or not the government will be pushing for an e.u. arms embargo to be lifted in and can he also set out what, if any, further amendments to the embargo he will be calling for? the foreign secretary has committed that when it comes to lifting the arms embargo, that the risks of arms falling into the wrong hands is one of the reasons we don't do it now. we agree with him that the risk of this is, indeed, very serious. so can he, therefore, set out to the house what would have to change on the ground in syria for him to change his view as to the relative risks involved in such a strategy? does he accept the reality is that today syria is replete with arms and will he accept the very great difficulties involved in guaranteeing the end use of weapons given the lack of clarity today about the identity, the intent and, indeed, the tactics of some of the rebel forces? does he accept that it is possible that if europe or indeed the west more generally were to decide to arm the rebels, that russia or, indeed, iran as he reference inside his remarks would simply increase their provision of arms to the assad regime? rather than pushing for the embargo to be to be relaxed, amended or lufted altogether, can he ask him to direct his efforts towards getting the russians and chinese to get an arms embargo? the most effect thive way of cutting off a key lifeline to the regime. somewhat curiously, the foreign secretary having previously mentioned the fact that al-qaeda are known to be operating in syria was silent in his remarks today. in light of increased u.k. support for the opposition forces, can the foreign secretary set out what is the british government assessment of the present level of this activity by al-qaeda and related jihad u.s. groups in syria? the can he give any assurances about the degree of authority and control exercised by the fnc over the wide range of opposition forces operating on the ground? the foreign -- >> i'm mildly alarmed by my sight of a further full page of text from the right honorable gentleman, but i know he'll put my mind at rest when he tells me he's not trying to deal with it. >> i will endeavor to keep my remarks as short as possible. i would simply say i indicated when listening to the foreign secretary's statements, it had begged more questions than answers, but i'm mindful, so let me conclude with following remarks. i understand frustrations are growing, but a strategy borne of frustration is less likely to deliver than one based on strategic insight. surely the priority now for britain should be to work to unipie the -- unify the syrian opposition. syria needs to see a deescalation and a political resolution. while the government has our support for its action toss provide humanitarian and nonlethal assistance to syria announced today, it is far from clear that taking steps to intensify this conflict in the months ahead would do anything to reduce the present level of violence being suffered by the syrian people. >> mr. speaker, the right honorable gentleman correctly draws attention, as i have done, to the extent of the human suffering. and the fact that the united nations has launched the largest ever appeal in financial terms for humanitarian terms just underlines the catastrophic scale of that suffering, and we must all remember in our remarks that that is the background to this, and that is the background for deciding what we have to do in that situation. um, he recommended something towards the end of his statement, some of which we have done such as work to unify the syrian opposition. of course, that's what we've done for many months, and they have been unified. and to the extent that that can be practical acleeved in the national coalition, that is the group we have recognized as the legitimate representatives of the syrian people. they may not be, i don't suppose any opposition or any political grouping will be perfect in our eyes in this country or any other country, but i don't believe that there will be a better attempt or a greater success at unifying the syrian opposition than the national coalition. m some other things that he was recommending i have to say would be wonderful if they could be achieved such as russian and chinese agreement to impose an arms embargo of the whole world on syria. of course, we would support that. but i have to say and, of course, we will go over all this ground with the russians again at the meetings that i've said will take place this afternoon and next week, there is no prospect that i've seen of russia agreeing to such an arms embargo. and so it's a good thing to wish for, but in practical, diplomatic terms there is no possibility at the moment of that being achieved. and that is the background to the decisions that we have to take. there are many things that would be far preferable that an immediate agreement would be reached straight away on a negotiated political transition in syria, and, of course, he asks quite rightly about the how serious we should take the offers to negotiate. and i certainly believe having talked to the president of the national coalition last week that his offer not only is very sincere, he would love it to be taken up. and that he really means that he will negotiate with members of the regime. without firing systems on the departure of assad. but the insistence by president assad such as in this weekend interview, the regime is ready to negotiate is something we've heard for two years and has never turned into actual substance. of course, we will discuss with mr. brahimi again this afternoon whether those statements can be used to bring both sides closer together. that's part of his job to try to do that. and, but the evidence over the last two years is that in current circumstances offers to negotiate by the regime are not sip sere and are not followed up and do not lead to the sort of progress we all want to see. and so it is against that background of the diplomatic deadlock, the political stalemate while tens of thousands of people die that i argue that we have to do what we can. yes, in a very cautious and considered way and a very clearly thought out way to try to change that situation and to try to save human lives. as best we can working, of course, at all times with our part nevers and our ally -- partners and our allies unincluding in the arab world. and there is a meeting of the foreign ministers of the arab league today. and we will continue to use every diplomatic effort. but this is the situation i've described and that he has described is not one in which our policy can remain static. he's quite right to say that the international community has been an abject failure collectively. the united nations security council has not shouldered its responsibilities. and we've tried many times to put that right. our resolutions have been vetoed, and we have been working in the last month since mr. brahimi's last briefing to the council to find a new common way forward in the security council. again, we will discuss this with the russians in the coming hours, but this has not emerged in a month of discussions behind the scenes in new york. so we all have to ask ourself toes given that situation, are we going to hold our policy completely static, or are we going to show we are prepared to change as the situation deteriorates? reluctantly, perhaps. cautiously, at all times. and i target we must be prepared to show that increased level of support for the opposition and that it has to take practical form if we're to exert any pressure on the regime and, indeed, on russia as well to successfully negotiate about this. and the parameters of what we're talking about are, i hope, clearly set out in the statement i've given because they are set out clearly in the amendment to the e.u. arms embargo. it is amended, not lifted. the arms embargo remains in place. these are specific exemptions for nonlethal military equipment and for technical assistance for the protection of civilians, and i've just given some examples in my statement of what that means in practice. as to the future, the e.u. sanctions have now been rolled over with that amendment for three months, and so there will be a further discussion in may about the renewal of such sanctions. and the government will form then, the house will be able to form its view, every honorable member will be able to form their view of what we should do in whatever decision we have arrived at in may about further amendments if they are necessary to the embargo. so i think the parameters are clear, the policy is clear, and what i want to make clear today is its direction is clear which is we must be prepared to do more in a situation of such slaughter and of such suffering and that a policy, a more static policy would not measure up to the depravity of this situation -- the depravity of this situation. >> [inaudible] >> i regret to say that i cannot see how any of them will have any serious prospect of reducing the length of this conflict and preventing the massacre of tens of thousands of more syrians. will the foreign secretary accept that until such time as the syrian opposition have the military equipment that will enable them to defeat the assad regime and thereby bring the conflict to an end earlier than would otherwise be the case, we will see a continuation of tens of thousands of people being killed, and the extremists in the opposition will benefit from that delay? what would the foreign secretary have to be persuaded of to accept that military support to the opposition in a controlled and responsible way is, indeed, necessary? >> well, i think what i, in fact, most of the house would have to be persuaded of is that there was absolutely no alternative remaining. and my right honorable friend has put the case, put the case for a long time, actually, for us to go much further than i have said today, for the actual arming of the opposition movements in syria by western countries. um, the difficulties of that are once that the right honorable gentleman, the shadow foreign secretary referred to, and also, of course, we have to recognize that the conflict is already militarized in syria. opposition groups do have access to substantial quantities of weapons, and those weapons are already reaching, are already there inside syria. there is such a flow of weapons. so i think it is right for the development of our policy to be graduated, for us to show our readiness to deliver increased assistance, the willingness of european countries and the united states to amend our policy as the, if the situation continues the deteriorate. but we have to do that in a way that commands general support, and we have to do it in a way that poses the least danger to the increased militarization of the conflict, and that's why i think this is the right balance to strike rather than to move to the position my right honorable friend has consistently advocated. >> mr. jack straw. >> thank you, mr. speaker. would the foreign secretary say that a fair summary of the position we've reached is that we are now providing or every kind of assistance to the military forces of the opposition short of explosives, guns and bullets that actually do the killing? and i have no objections to that. i think it's essential. but would he also acknowledge that in my judgment he's right not to rule out the option of direct lethal military supplies, the strategic, diplomatic consequences of any such decision and the degree to which we could, frankly, get bogged down in a kind of cold war, proxy war many that situation really needs to be thought through very carefully, indeed, before you make a positive decision? >> yes, i very much agree with the right honorable gentleman. he accurately characterizes the position, although perhaps putting it too strongly to say we're providing every kind of assistance short of heath -- lethal. we'll provide assistance of that nature that is for the protection of civilians, and that is an important requirement, and we will absolutely, we will interpret that exactly. it has to be for the protection of civilians. so he went a bit too far in his characterization to have the position. but he is right, of course, and for the reasons i was just speaking about a moment ago it would be a further, and it would be a bigger stance to say we are sending lethal equipment. and we have taken no decision to do that, and we have no current plan to do that. but it is necessary, of course, to be clear that in a situation of this gravity and of this, of the possible implications of the peace of the whole region we can't rule out options. we can't definitively rule it out, and that was the thrust of his question. >> [inaudible] campbell. >> my right honorable friend gives a compelling analysis of the deteriorating situation in syria, and the measures he announced should be not only accepted, should be welcomed by the house so far as they're designed to alleviate suffering and loss of life. but as we approach the tenth anniversary of the mistaken military action against saddam hussein, does he understand that there are many of us in the house or who are concerned lest we might drift towards something that could be described as military intervention? >> well, i'm grateful to my right honorable friend for the measures that i've announced to be welcomed by the house, and, of course, welcome that support. and, yes, i absolutely understand that after more than a decade of conflict in different ways people are always anxious about new conflict. that doesn't mean, however, we can stick our heads in the sand, that we can ignore new conflicts that have risen in the world that can affect us for all the reasons i have described. it does mean that our response to them has to be very intelligent, has to be very well calculated. and i think we can say quite clearly on, answering the heart of his question, there's no western government that's advocating military intervention, military intervention of the western nation or of any nations into the conflict in syria. the discussion is entirely focused on the degree of assistance that cannons should be delivered to the opposition inside syria. that's what the discussion is centered on rather than on an external military intervention. >> [inaudible] >> mr. speaker, will he accept that the logical next step of the strategy which he's been pursuing now for over six monthsnot more is to arm -- months if not more is to arm the opposition? and i think it's profoundly mistaken. he's eloquently condemned and carried the whole house every time he's made a statement these last six months, the horror, the par barety of the assad regime. just going for regime change in what is a civil war with a shia/sunni conflict there, a reincarnation of the cold war as well is not going to ever achieve its objective. what he should be doing is instead of just promoting the opposition's call for negotiations, you should actually test assad's willingness to negotiate expressed over the weekend, test it to destruction. and he's not doing that. he's pursuing a failed strategy, a monumental failure of diplomacy, and it's making the situation worse. >> here, here. >> well, the right honorable gentleman doesn't really help his case in the way that he describes the government's position. and, of course, it very much follows from what i've been saying in answer to the shadow foreign secretary that we believe the apparent offer to negotiate by president assad must be it'sed, absolutely. so we will certainty do that, and the right honorable gentleman and i will agree strongly on that. you would have to think if he was of in government today that if that doesn't work and over the last two years it hasn't worked, then what else do we do? and -- well, he says from a sedentary position it hasn't been tried, it's been tried countless times. kofi annan went to damascus countless times. every possibility has been given to the regime to negotiate, and they have never entered into a sip sere or meaningful -- sincere or meaningful situation. that being the case, it is not adequate to watch slaughter on this scale and say we will stick our heads in the sand about it. it is important to have a foreign policy that relieves humanitarian suffering and upholds human rights. and i would have thought that was something the right honorable gentleman would always have been in favor of. >> mr. richard ottoway. >> the foreign secretary's position in not supplying weapons to the rebels, it is perfectly clear that someone is supplying weapons to the rebels at present, and isn't the -- [inaudible] will end up fighting against a shia-backed militants backed by iran, lebanon and iraq sometime in the future? >> um, well, of course the increased sectarian nature of the conflict is one of our great concerns. that is the reason why we have to do everything we can to, everything we can reasonably do to shorten the conflict. because that will only get worse as this goes on. the conflict in syria is already militarized, as my honorable friend says, weapons are being obtained by all the factions fighting in syria including by the military council working with the national coalition. but i feel the longer it goes on, the more it will have a sectarian nature, and the more there will be opportunities for extremists to take hold and, therefore, giving our assistance to moderate forces forces and no extremist forces is one of the ways in which we can try to shape this situation in a more sensible direction. >> [inaudible] >> what consideration, if any, is being given to the possibility of implementing a no-fly zone? >> well, a no-fly zone is sometimes advocated, including at international meetings. but i think the greatest difficulty with a no-fly zone is that, of course, it is a response of a totally different nature. it is a military intervention. it is what we have been talking about and many honorable members have been warning against. it would require military force externally on a very substantial scale. now, a good argument of principle can be made for that and of relieving humanitarian suffering by doing whatever is necessary. but the willingness of nations around the world to implement such a military intervention is limited for understandable reasons and, indeed, such a no-fly zone, i think, could only in practice be done with the full participation of the united states of america. and so there are major practical difficulties in doing it. what we must not get into is saying that there are protected areas, that there are humanitarian corridors and then not being able to protect people. there is a sad and tragic history of those things, and so we should only take the step the honorable lady is talking about if the world, the international community was truly ready to bring that about. >> [inaudible] >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. my right honorable friend, mr. speaker, is quite right when he says that syria is being shielded by some countries in the united nations, not least, of course, we know that russia had the opportunity to bring about some sanctions early on in the united nations security council. could i ask my right honorable friend to start talking to his counterparts in the european union and, indeed, in the united states to actually try and say to the russians if you don't want to take part of this, you get on the ground, you do this. and if the russians refuse to take that course of action, are willing to stand by and let tens of thousands of people to be slaughtererred, then we should work with our european partners and the u.s. and say we're not going to come to your country to showcase your country in the world cup in 2016. 2020, sorry. >> right. my honorable friend, we must put every, use every art of persuasion we know in our talks with our colleagues in russia. and i can assure him that we do that. the shadow foreign secretary argued that we must put the case to russia about the growth of extremism in syria and so on. and we do. i have lost count of the number of occasions that i and other western ministers have put the case to our russian counterparts that everything russia most fears in syria is more likely to come true the longer the conflict goes on, including the rise of international terrorism and instability in the whole region. they, clearly, have a different analysis. we haven't had any meeting of minds on that. i'm not a great fan of sporting sanctions, i have to say, and as a country that just hosted to olympics, we have a good, well-established position on that, but we will use every other art of persuasion in dealing with russia. >> mr. nigel dobbs. >> the assad regime is clearly barbarous -- [inaudible] but does the foreign secretary understand the concerns of many of our constituents who read issues about atrocities and war crimes of the rule of al-qaeda and who express concerns about support and help that will be going for good and proper reasons that have been set out in good faith and helping people who are deeply hostile to western interests and also equally guilty of some terrible crimes against humanity? >> yes, of course. people are right to be concerned about any atrocities or any opportunity for international terrorism of to take hold in a new place. now, that's one of the reasons why we with cannot just turn away from this crisis. but it's also why, and this is another of his questions, the assistance we give must be very carefully thought out and monitored. and, of course, the all the assistance i have talk about, all the equipment i've talked about is nonlethal. we monitor to the best of our ability its use, and if it was misused or fell into the hands of groups we did not intend it for, that would have a serious impact on our willingness to provide such further assistance in the future. but i do want to stress that while people, of course, read about and we are concerned about in the way i've described the opportunity for extreme u.s.es to take -- extremists to take hold, the great majority of the people who are involved even in the fighting in syria from what we can see and tell and certainly the opposition leaders that i meet are people who sincerely want a future for their country that has nothing to do with extremism and or or record im. and we must not -- and terrorism. and we must not leave those people feeling abandoned by the world. >> dr. julian lewis. >> unfortunately, the record of moderates in standing up against extremists in such situations isn't all that great. does the foreign secretary accept that our sworn enemies, al-qaeda, are fighting on the side of the opposition and that, therefore, our concern is that if and when the appalling assad regime is overthrown as the government bushes, its chemical -- wishes, its chemical weapons stocks will fall into al-qaeda's hands? what practical guarantee can the government give us that that will not happen? i asked this question on monday, it wasn't satisfactorily answered, that's why i'm asking it again. >> well, no one, mr. speaker, can give any guarantee. this is why a political transition is needed in syria. this is why what should happen is an orderly transition. because there are, certainly, there are in syria terrible weapons, chemical and biological weapons. and that's why i think it's important to be clear that there is no military-only solution, whatever one's point of view to the situation in syria. and so those chemical weapons are best safeguarded in a peaceful transition. that's why we have to keep up the argument. but without giving additional assistance to the moderate elements of the opposition, if we were not to do that, we would be reducing rather than enhancing the prospects for such an orderly transition. >> mr. mike gates. >> thank you, mr. speaker. isn't the reality that it would be more secure and more in our enters to have a no-fly zone than to arm the opposition? because we can keep control of the equipment in a no-fly zone, and we can't if we hand it over to jihadist groups? but isn't it also the reality that the united states administration and some neighboring countries including turkey are against a no-fly zone and, therefore, we're not able to do it? >> well, to have a no-fly zone -- by the way, just to be clear, i've not announced arming the opposition, so this is something different. this is increasing the level of assistance we give to the op suggestion, and it was non-- opposition, and it was nonlethal equipment. but he is putting the case for an external military intervention rather than moving to any policy in the future of lethal equipment, supporting heath call equipment going into syria. there is a respectable case for that. but i made the point to his honorable friend earlier that to do that there would have to be the willingness on part of a large part of the international community, almost certainly including the united states, to do that. there would have to be that willingness so that we were not making a false promise to people of safety. syria is a country that continues to have strong air defenses with very modern equipment, and the implementation of a no-fly zone would be a very large military undertaking. and so it's important that those who advocate, and bear that many many -- bear that in mind. >> sir general powell. >> however distressing the picture we see on our television, and it is indeed diss stressing, i'm extremely concerned that the united kingdom's hand is being drawn ever closer into this mangle, and i share all the concerns and say what confidence does the foreign secretary have in his belief that these what he calls, i think, the moderate and democratic forces can be assisted and will, therefore, be in charge of a postconflict syria? because if he's not confident, then what we will be faced with is more bloody jihadists. and i hope my honorable friend will completely rule out the use of britain's armed forces who are already greatly overstretched. >> well, what i'm confident about, i fully understand my honorable friend's concern, and is that giving support, giving the active support of the kind that i've described to that moderate and democratic opposition is the best with way to help insure that this they are the ones who are successful. their chances of success will be less in standing up to extremists, our honorable friend rightly pointed out that very often the moderate forces who lose out to extremists in these situations, their chances will be less the longer this goes on and theless support they receive from outside. so we have to make a choice about when we are prepared to give that support. and i think it's the right choice for the united kingdom to increase the level of support to people who we would be prepared to see succeed. >> mr. jeremy corbin. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the situation in syria is, obviously, appalling, and the humanitarian crisis is absolutely devastating. but at the end of every war, it requires a political solution of some sort. could he tell us what serious negotiations are upside taken with saudi arabia and qatar who are fundamentally the funders of the opposition forces in syria and what serious engagement is being with the goth of iran particularly on bringing about some kind of comprehensive peace negotiation and peace process? because without that there will be more suffering, more deaths and more difficulties for everybody. >> well, the honorable gentleman makes a fair point in that regional powers were able to agree among themselves about the situation and about a solution, that would be an enormous step forward. just as if the fife permanent members of the u.n. security could council were able to agree, it would be a vital step forward. there have been such attempts. and, in fact, through last autumn the egyptian government convened a group of egypt and saudi arabia and iran and turkey to consider the situation together and see if they could come to an agreed way forward. i have to tell him that that group did not come to an agreed way forward. that's not to say such a group can't be revised in the future. we have absolutely no problem with such a group being assembled. it can be revived. but it didn't succeed, and it didn't succeed pause iran has not -- because iran has not been prepared to come to an agreed way forward with other countries in the region. it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried again. >> bob stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. in this civil war, foreign secretary, it seems there is a military stalemate between two sides who have military forces. under those circumstances and considering each side claims that it wants to negotiate, is there any chance that we can put all our efforts into getting a ceasefire arranged so that in that ceasefire when the guns stop and civilians stop being killed, we might actually be able to use politics to solve the situation? >> here, here. >> in this, again, is a very good thought although, again, we have -- it has been tried. it should be tried again. of course, in any negotiated way forward a ceasefire would be a very important element of the early part of such negotiations. my honorable friend may recall that last summer the u.n. envoy pa himmy -- brahimi proposed a ceasefire, and there was some hope for a short time that it would be implemented. there were many efforts to implement it in parts of of syria. but it broke down after a very short time, within days the ceasefire had completely broken down. and, again, that doesn't mean that shouldn't be top of the agenda of negotiations. but as my honorable friend can gather, we don't have successful negotiations for the moment, much as though we will discuss that with mr. brahimi this often. >> ms. stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. could the foreign secretary tell us the discussions he's had with turkey and what turkey's attitude is towards easing the arms embargo. >> turkey is very supportive of the change that the european union has made in the arms embargo, and indeed, turkey has a forward-leaning approach, let's just say, to this crisis. and and the turkey foreign minister was here, he would not only say what i have said, but a great deal more about the need for international support to the coalition. i'll be meeting him again tomorrow here in london when he come toss the friends of yemen meeting. but turkey's certainly very, or very sportive of this announcement and of the change to e.u. policy. >> mr. bernard jenkin. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i welcome my friend's right honorable statement. i note that he does not rule out any option, and in specific answer to my honorable friend's question, he does not rule out military intervention. while no country is yet advocating that, if syria is meant to be part of a primary interest in our national security strategy, are we quipped to deal with this crisis, and to what extent should he be talking to his opposite member, my right honorable friend the defense secretary, about what contingencies should be laid and, indeed, what additional expenditure is required in order to give us the capacity to at least influence the security situation around problem? >> well, of course, the defense secretary and i discussed the whole range of international affairs on an almost continuous basis, and we make the decision about our policy on syria in the national security council or in the cabinets. we discussed in this yesterday at the cabinet, and the defense secretary and i are very much of the same mind and work closely together on all contingencies. the minister of defense has planned for, as my honorable friend knows, for a great range of contingencies. it's not helpful the to speculate, for ministers to speculate about those contingencies, and i stress as i've made clear earlier that we're not calling for, nor are we planning a military intervention. the discussion in the interor national community is ability the -- is about the degree of support rather than an external intervention. so we will plan for our contingencies, but that is the context and the background to any military role in this crisis. >> ms. louise helmand. >> thank you, mr. speaker. what does the foreign secretary think is the likelihood of chemical weapons being used in sur ya or for -- in syria, or for those weapons to be moved to hezbollah in lebanon, destabilizing the wider region? >> we are, as i said in my summit, increasingly concerned about the regime's possible use, possible willingness to use chemical weapons. and we're always concerned, as are many other countries in the region, about the transfer, any transfer of those weapons. to other groups or to other countries in the region. and we send the strong message that i gave if my statement -- in my statement. the president of the united states himself has given a similar strong message about the use of chemical weapons by anybody and including the syrian regime. i think it's very important for them to hear that message or the world will be determined that the individuals responsible are held to account if chemical weapons are used. >> mr. martin woolward. >> i strongly support the foreign secretary's stand on this very difficult issue, and will he tell mr. bog canoff this afternoon that with a million fled and as many as 100,000 dead, it stands in comparison with the rwandan genocide which led the international community with responsibility to protect doctrine in the first place and that russia should engage with the forces or face the prospect of a jihadist regime which neither we, nor they would want? >> basically i will tell him that, yes. absolutely. this is part of the argument, and as i said earlier, russia is concerned, rightly concerned about international terrorism. russians have experience with that themselves. but the, if this situation goes on for many more months or years, well, then we are going to see a much greater opening for such international terrorism. and it is, indeed, it is becoming a human catastrophe of immense proportions. so my honorable friend can be confident that i will make this argument in the robust terms he would want me to to my russian counterpart. >> [inaudible] >> mr. speaker, can i thank the right honorable gentleman for advanced copy of the statement? i do welcome the emphasis in his statement on humanitarian aid. i'm sure we'd all agree that it's time now for all nations to focus on a nonviolent resolution if at all possible. clearly, that's obvious. but yesterday israel said, threatened the security council as the right honorable gentleman knows that it cannot stand idle, as it puts it, if the syrian civil war spills over onto its border. now, it's a very serious position, and i'm sure the right honorable gentleman's aware of that, and we need to be doing everything we can to provide further confirmation, i think. >> absolutely. the honorable member is absolutely quite right. the danger of, that the spread regionally, the spread into other countries in different ways of this crisis is one of the reasons we cannot just watch it develop. we have to work out the best constructive approach, difficult though these choices are. to trying to push this crisis in the right direction at that dirr than drift in the wrong direct. and, indeed, any of the neighboring countries will take action if their borders are infringed, of course. we have agreed to the stawtioning of patriot missiles by nato in turkey. lebanon has been very concerned about clashes on its border. the jordanian and iraqi border is a tense place, and basketball that is even before we consider the golan heights and the iraqi border as well. so the regional dimension to this is of increasing and serious concern, and that's one of the reasons for this package of policy changes and announcements that aye -- i've given today. >> mr. edward lee. >> may i strongly reject the neo-con policies and ideas emanating from are our right honorable friend from kensington? what could be gained by our selling arms in this cauldron? have we forgotten the disastrous policy of arming the rebels in afghanistan? have we forgotten the atrocities being committed against christians in syria? what's wrong with basing our policy on life, not death? >> i've never considered myself a neo-con and don't use that, don't describe myself as that as foreign secretary. our policy must be very carefully calibrated, and my honorable friend draws attention to situations where, which have gone seriously wrong from the point of view of the international community. we've also, though, got to bear in mind if we look at the western fallinglands in the 1990s, the isolation of muslims in many parts of the world are a policy which for too long denied people any ability in an extreme situation to protect themselves. and so i think our policy, the policy that i have announced of doing what we can to protect civilian life is a necessary and proportionate response. >> mr. jeffrey robinson. >> mr. speaker, the foreign secretary's well aware there's no shortage of lethal weapons in syria at all. there's very little case for us supplying it and, indeed, putting it quite frankly, supplying four wheel drive vehicles as well as body armor to the opposition isn't necessarily driving around in this total personal immunity isn't best characterized -- [inaudible] credit for our policy or the civilians who continue to live amidst appalling suffering and danger. will you carry the whole house -- [inaudible] is a massive increase in our human tear assistance, and if you could find european partners into doing that, that's where his efforts ought to be directed. >> well, the right honorable gentleman can be pleased in that case because we have announced enormous increases in our humanitarian assistance. my right honorable friend who was here earlier announced when she attended the kuwait conference at the end of january a vast increase, a 50 million pound increase taking it to 140 million pounds. we're one of the biggest donors in the world to try to alleviate humanitarian suffering. i think he should be when he quotes the list of what i say we will be sending, i hope he will quote the full list about medical supplies, about water purification, measures that will help prevent the spread of disease so that the need to alleviate humanitarian suffering is this right at the top of our minds, and it is the, it is what britain is devoting by far the greatest resources to in all the effort we're putting into this crisis. >> mr. chrispin -- blunt. >> following any statement he was absolutely right to draw attention to the jihadists committing atrocities using explosive devices including car bombs. i have a british-syrian constituent who is on the verge of defying british citizenship. he has immediate family who have been killed by such a car bomb. she now wants to bring her parents to the u.k. simply to take up some respite from what is happening there. they're faced with an incredibly difficult journey in order to simply make the application to come here which now seems extremely difficult, um, even if they're able to succeed, even if they got here. if the circumstances are as i have tribed, um -- described, um, would he make clear that in those is circumstances an application for the parents to come here is the kind of thing that would merit his support? >> um, well, as my honorable friend knows, he's described the case very well, but such decisions are for the home secretary. and i can't say within all circumstances we will be opening doors for people to come to the united kingdom. there are, there's now a million refugees in other countries, as i said, but it is the responsibility of those countries that receive the refugees to look after them with international support, and i pay tribute to the generosity of the people of lebanon and turkey and jordan and iraq and what they're doing. and we're doing our best to assist with that. so i think that is the prime way for refugees to be assisted. but his question is a reminder that there are not only four million out of the population of 21 million who are displaced or are in desperate need, many of the remaining people are in extremely dangerous and stressful conditions and unable to pursue normal life in any way. so it is, it is affecting the great majority of the whole country. >> hugh bailey. >> the difference between factions in the opposition only makes the extremists stronger than they otherwise would be. but it also makes the process of staging negotiations extremely difficult, and the ability to determine who will be a government to syria when the regime falls absolutely impossible. so what is our government doing and allies doing to get greater coherence and common purpose within the moderate opposition? >> secretary. >> there is much greater coherence, mr. speaker, than for a long time. it's not surprising that it's difficult in these circumstances, of course, to bring together something like the national coalition. but it is, it is very much the best attempt that can reasonably be made to bring together those moderate and democratic forces. and it is there now to be negotiated with. quite often over the last two years it has been the refrain of some of the other countries on the security council or of the regime, well, we want to negotiate, but we don't have someone to negotiate with. now they do not have that excuse. the national coalition is there for them to negotiate with, and it is willing to negotiate. so the onus is now on the regime to show that it can seriously negotiate. >> mr. john barron. >> mr. speaker, i urge caution. human rights have said by arming the rebels we could be arming the terrorists of the future as well as escalating the violence. but would i bring the foreign secretary back to his comments over the weekend which did clearly indicate a change in thinking when it came to nonlethal support. to what extent were his comments a reflection of the fact we now get reports that president obama is thinking about changing his policy on this issue? >> i'm not aware of any inconsistency in what i've said. in fact, throughout i've said we don't rule out any options. i've said that for two years. and it would be a strange thing, indeed, as the situation got worse to start ruling out options when we've not done that at any period. so that's what i said today, and that's what i said at the weekend. but what we're actually proposing to do is what i've set out today, and my honorable friend will know from the announcement that secretary kerry made that it is closely related to what the united states has announced, they have announced $60 million of additional practical support but nonheath call support -- lethal support to the coalition, and i have announced $20 million to use a comparative figure that the united kingdom will provide. so our policy is closely aligned with the united states, but neither country is advocated the policies which my right honorable friend is so strongly opposed. >> roy. >> would the syrian rebels use armored vehicles during battle, wouldn't that be seen as the united kingdom giving lethal assistance? >> such vehicles are nonlethal quilt. that's how they are defined -- equipment, that's how they are defined. that applies as well to body armor. but the -- [inaudible] could advocate a different policy of not trying to save lives in syria. that is what he is suggesting in his question, that we say, no, we will not try to save lives, we will not send people who desperately ask for this kind of assistance even though they are slaughtered in huge numbers. well, that is his choice to advocate that policy, but i don't think that is either responsible or would give moral authority to our policy. >> newton. >> thank you. i'm very concerned for my constituents whose syrian christian family living in aleppo are being persecuted for their faith and their friends mudderred by the jihad u.s.es the secretary of state has mentioned. so what sort of assurance can be given to us that any british support is not helping rebels who are also islamic fundamentalists? >> um, this is a very important point, and it's important to stress as i did earlier to other questions that our purport is to the moderate and democratic forces in syria. and it's one of the reasons, of course, all our support i've set out is also nonlethal. but it also is important for us to monobest we can that -- monitor best we can the use of that equipment. if we thought that equipment was at any stage being used by people we had not intended it for, then our attitude would, of course, have to change dramatically. >> mr. paul flynn. >> the house is deeply united on the humanitarian aid. we're deeply divided on the oversimplified view of the foreign secretary who on this complex civil war he couldn't bring himself to mention the front who a jihadist group and a vital part of the opposition who have been accused of some of the most blood thirsty massacre of civilians, can he give an absolute guarantee that before we commit military equipment or personnel to syria there'll be a debate and a vote in this house to avoid us repeating what we've done so often in trying to punch our way, we dive beyond our responsibilities somewhere well, the honorable member, i'm sure, has been listening carefully and will know i've not advocated sending military equipment or personnel. and, of course, we have our conventions of which he and i are strong supporters in this house that when we take decisions in the house, and we will observe all of those conventions. but he will also have to defer with his long concern for humanitarian issues whether it would be right to be completely static in the face of this situation, and that is the alternative to what i have described. everybody, everybody is concerned, rightly, across the house about the humanitarian situation. but i don't believe it is responsible for policy to sit still in the face of a rapidly worsening situation. >> mr. james morris. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the foreign secretary or mentioned the increasing evidence of the involvement of the iranian regime in the arming of the assad regime. would he agree with me that there might be opportunities to put pressure on the iranian regime to desist in the context of the ongoing negotiations around the nuclear, the iranian nuclear program? >> well, i'm not sure the negotiations provide that opportunity to put that pressure. those negotiations are very focused on the nuclear program, and i reported to the house yesterday during foreign office questions the progress, but it's very early stage that was made in those negotiations that was made inial matty last week. i hi the pressure should differd the a different pressure, and that is that the world knows about these activities, that in the end in the syria it will be proved that the assad regime is doomed and that there'll be many people in syria who will not want to forgive iran for intervening with, in all the ways that i've described, including with armed personnel in what is happening in syria. >> jenny chapman. >> thank you, mr. speaker. how concerned is the foreign secretary at the u.n. high commissioner's comments this morning on refugees that they had underestimated severely the number of refugees that would be leaving syria, and they have barely 25% of the resources that they needed to deal with the now million people leaving the country? what is he doing with colleagues to make sure the lack of preparedness isn't allowed to continue? .. >> novel countries are, one have billions will pledge. now have to make sure that other countries deliver on those promises. and so of course we are raising that, many bilateral meetings with other nations involved in this over the next 36 hours. we are raising that with each of those countries but we all know how to deliver on the pledges we have made. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the sector as they will know the united states was one of the last leading countries to recognize the syrian opposition. is there now and agree to join policy by united kingdom and the u.s.a.? is their joint policies? >> there is a joint policy to my honorable friend will notice that what secretary kerry announced last week, very close to what i am announcing this week. discuss it with them on several occasions last week in london. we have a very similar view of both of the gravity of the crisis and the need for increased action of the kind that i have been asked today in order to try to speed and resolution of the crisis. so he can be assured that london and washington are very closely online on it. >> john cryer. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i've heard many statements like this in years gone by, and most of the time would end up being involved in a quagmire from which we cannot extricate ourselves. i take it you that now we can't have a full debate in government with the possibility of a boat. >> i think it's important for the honorable member to distinguish situations where we, britain, may be involved in a quagmire where we are helping other people to try to get out of a quagmire. and that is what we're trying to do with this sort of assistance. we cannot turn aside requests for assistance, but, of course, in getting, i think this is the eighth statement i've given about syria, i'm always willing to come to the house and debate it. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. the foreign secretary but impact on the wider region. could become it on jordan, a key strategic ally with very limited resources that is facing a huge influx of refugees from syria? >> i pay tribute to the people and the government of jordan. i visited last summer the refugee reception areas, just inside the jordanian border. since then, the numbers involved have got much larger. there are over 312,000 refugees in jordan, most of them residing with host communities and families, but some are in camps. the jordanians have done a magnificent job. we discuss regular with them how we can help further. we're meeting with foreign minister of jordan tomorrow, and we will be discussing this further than. >> dr. phil fully. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the late father of the current president of syria, a very ruthless and murders individual did have the reputation of doing what he said he was going to do. by contrast his son is a fundamentally weak individual surrounded by stronger -- to what extent does defence secretary agree with me that the personal weakness the president of syria will make a diplomatic solution if not impossible very unlikely? >> my honorable friend is right that this is one of the -- describing an obstacle. there are of course, not only the president of city but other members of his family close involved, including his brother in the power structure in syria. and, of course, an entire system of finance and power and reward, an entire premed which president assad is simply the top. so a solution to this, a political diplomatic solution requires people much further down that david to agree that it is a good idea. that makes a very complex. that is one of the reasons of the negotiations by the regime are not actually followed up by serious negotiations. so it is indeed one of the obstacles. >> [inaudible] very bleak picture of a dangerous civil war with a toxic mix of iranian involvement, possibly al qaeda, and other extremists. even that, what assessments have the british government made of the alleged involvement of hezbollah and the conflict in syria? and for the potential for regional instability that would flow from that? >> there is some, there's potential that we have discussed for regional, including in lebanoncome and including in relations to hezbollah. and one of the dangers is of clashes on the lebanese border, the south of lebanon between hezbollah and the free syrian army or other elements of the syrian opposition. and let a lone syrian regime forces as well. so that is one of the dangers. i don't have any other evidence i can quote about hezbollah, but that in itself is a great danger. and is one of the reasons we are assisting with the stability of lebanon. in lebanon two weeks ago i announced additional british funding for the lebanese armed forces, who are a very important part of trying to keep that border peaceful, including our direct help of a construction of border observation post. and, of course, everything else that we are doing to try to bring about a resolution. >> my right honorable friend has always been clear that we've tried to stop the killing and find a peaceful solution. it a peaceful solution can be fined, if assad stays in power, would reveal to accept the to or have we reached a stage where a precursor to the 20 deal, assad moscow? >> it's not for us to decide he was in power from any other country, including in syria. it is of course the position of the syrian national coalition, of all opposition groups that they want the departure of president assad. but we will not be more like the syrian opposition than the syrian opposition. he has said he is willing to negotiate. that is appreciation we should support. but it is impossible to see, for any observer of these events, to see president assad ever again being able to unify our govern his country. we say he should go, but the opposition has offered to negotiate. that is a right. >> it is clear that the house shares the humanitarian urgency that the foreign secretary has taken in so well, but many also are concerned that that urgency should not entail -- a real agenda of some of the opposition forces. cannot acknowledge particular principles that have been expressed by the foreign secretary today? our foreign policy is inseparable from upholding human rights, protecting and it supporting international law? we must assist a democratic forces here in dire need of help that a been abandoned by the international community. we cannot look the other way with international law and human rights. when will we see those principles manifest and the governments engagement and other situations? >> well, they are. that may take us wider than the subject, absolutely wider than the subject. i welcome in china what the honorable member says. and, of course, this is the object of our policy more broadly in foreign policy. we are heavily engaged in conflict prevention, conflict resolution in somalia, in yemen, in sudan, and in a work that we do now to promote an arms trade treaty, to pursue my own initiative on preventing sexual violence and conflict. united kingdom, the united kingdom, continued has a strong record in conflict prevention, through to the principles that he was coding there and we must always uphold that tradition. >> to foreign secretary and colleagues, order. 10 minute rule motion. >> thank you i beg to move that a bill establishes -- >> attorney general eric holder testifies today about justice department programs at a senate judiciary committee oversight hearing. live coverage at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span3. >> she has been read since 1840 when her grandson first published an edition of her letters which went through four editions in the 1840s. and it was, she was a best seller through the 19th century. people never. she has always been famous. >> our conversation with the stories about abigail adams is now available on our website. c-span.org/first lady's. >> the former prime minister of belgian discuss the future of the european union on monday at the brookings institution. in his hour-long remarks, he spoke about europe's fiscal problems and a call for drastic changes to the governing system. he is currently a member of the european parliament. >> thank you very much. first of all, you said they shall be a short introduction but with a politician you never know naturally how short the introduction can be. but i will do my best, first of all, ladies and gentlemen, it's not the first time i'm coming to washington to give an introduction about the eu crisis, the crisis of the european union and what can be learned from united states. i think it was six years ago was that moment primus of belgian need a speech in washington about the same topic. it was not before such a prestigioprestigio us institution as brookings. it was csis. i hope there are no people of cis in the room now. so today i am back in a quite different context i should say. because compared to six years ago after the european union is in the midst of a serious crisis. i shall not give you a whole overview of everything what happened the last years in europe your budget certainly followed to the greek prices, the portuguese financial crisis in 2010, the debt crisis also in the same year that problems in madrid, in spain. problems in italy. so we have to recognize that since the outbreak of the financial crisis in 2010, eight, we're in the midst of a number of serious problems. and the question that i want to raise with you this morning is yet what went wrong in the european union? what is the reason that there is a crisis in the european union? because it does find in other parts of the world. you can't say there's no growth worldwide if you look through a number of figures, of a number of regions. why, what is happening exactly in the union? and what is going wrong him and i put this question as a convinced european, some one who believes anymore integrate, i shall use the word federal europe. because as many of you will know it was also many people in europe that believe that it is the existence of union itself that is the problem. and serving a solution to our crisis. they would rather retreat behind national borders, as it was the case in the 19th century in a world of old style powers, old style nation states. and, in fact, many of these people then
unfortunately the inclim ate weather canceled it. it's a place where bipartisan bills at the state level have led with federal partnership to the critical catalytic investments in improving criminal justice systems. the bulletproof partnership is something -- i had a police officer from dover, delaware, a couple months ago, was shot twice close range in the chest and survived. the county where i used to serve, their lives were saved. we should be re-authorizing this program. i look forward working with you on that. last question if i could, in the same vein. the victims of child abuse act and the child advocacy centers that it funds, i think are an enormous resource for law enforcement and prevent the revictimization by children who were traumatized to be interviewed once. it has all the relevant folks there and present. the one i visited, a children's hospital in new cassel county, the resource for our community and our law enforcement community is terrific. i was surprised that it was zeroed out last year. i'm hoping i could rely on your support for restoring funding to this small but cumulatively powerful program in the f.y. 2012 budget. any thoughts on the thought of child advocacy centers? >> i was one that centered the child advocacy center in washington, d.c. i know the positive impact it has on child victims of crime, the decision to eliminate this funding was a difficult one. deficit issues, you know, restoring fiscal sustainability was all a consideration. the office of justice programs, after i spoke to you, has come up with ways in which they think they can prioritize some grant making and training to help in that regard. but i'm just going to, you know, i think as we look at the budget for the next year that given what we get from the advocacy centers and the relatively small amount that is involved that this has to be part of the next budget. i'm not satisfied with what we are now with regard to the present budget. i think that was a mistake. >> thank you, mr. attorney general. i look forward working with you as a member of the budget committee, i think all of us here recognize that we have forced far too many of the cuts we made in the last two years just in the narrow area of domestic discretionary and having a negative impact on things like criminal justice, strengthen our communities in infrastructure, r&d, education. i look forward to a broader solution. i am grateful for your service. thank you. >> thank you. >> senator grassley. >> [inaudible] >> senator blumenthal. >> good morning, attorney general holder. thank you for being here. thank you for your leadership of the department of justice in areas that are so important -- voting rights, doma and other areas that are critical to the future of justice in this country, and i want to thank both you and the president for your leadership on gun violence prevention and particularly his and your personal commitment to the people of newtown who are still grieving and hurting and your personal involvement in trying to ease those continuing trauma that still affect them as recently as yesterday in our telephone conversation. i want to focus for the moment on gun violence prevention. as a law enforcement professional, not just as attorney general, but one who has been a judge and a prosecutor, this whole idea of better enforcement of existing laws is one that we both agree ought to be the goal and it always is for any prosecutor. and yet enforcement of some of these laws is impeded by gaps in those laws such as the absence of background checks on firearms which now enable about 40% of all firearms purchases to go without any check whatsoever. you would agree with that, wouldn't you? >> yeah. there are loopholes. as we come to describe them. that make the enforcement of existing laws extremely difficult and render those existing laws not nearly as effective as they might otherwise be. >> and those laws now prohibit purchases of firearms by categories of people, convicted felons, fugitives, drug addicts and abusers and domestic violence abusers. purchases of firearms and ammunition. both firearms and ammunition. right now there are no background checks as to purchases of ammunition. none whatsoever. and as a matter of common sense as well as law enforcement professionalism, i think you'd agree that those laws are better enforced with background checks as to ammunition purchases, would you agree? >> yeah. i think -- i'd like to discuss this with you some more. one of the concerns i have is a resource concern. you know, i think that theoretically what you are you a talking about -- what you're talking about makes a lot of sense. i think that's a real -- it would have a real positive impact. my only concern is the nics system is potentially overburdened and making sure we have the resources to do that. >> and just by way of background, you know, i've asked two of the u.s. attorneys who have been active and aggressive enforcers of these laws, u.s. attorney haffei, for example, whether these laws can be enforced, for example, without background checks for ammunition, and to quote both of us, do you have any effective way of enforcing that law, the prohibition on ammunition purchases? answer, no. so when you are asked by my colleagues, why aren't you more aggressively enforcing these laws, why don't we have more prosecutions? the very simple answer is that there's no real way to enforce these bans on ammunition purchases or firearms purchases unless there are background checks. and i understand and recognize and sympathize with your point about resources, but if we're serious about these gun violence prevention laws that keep ammunition and firearms out of the hands of criminals, we need to strengthen and bolster that nics system so that we make these laws something more than just a charade and a feel-good set of words on statute. >> we need to make greater use of the nics system and to make resources available so it can be used in a way to support existing laws. because those people who constantly say you have to enforce the laws don't necessarily give us the tools to enforce those very laws. >> exactly. and i want to again thank you and the president for that commitment on resources and also say as the major proponent of the background check provision for ammunition, i'm looking for ways to modify this proposal so as to perhaps make it voluntary and give licensed dealers the access that they need to the system. as you know right now they are barred from checking. they see somebody come in, a potential adam lanza, who is buying hundreds of rouns of .223 caliber ammunition, they have no way of checking whether he is a drug abuser, a domestic abuser, a convicted felon, a fugitive, anyone in those prohibitive categories. they simply are at a loss for basic information to try to protect the public. the best intention can't help them help you enforce the law. so i'm hoping we can work together on this provision. i repeat, i am sympathetic to the resource issue. if it were my say alone, those resources would be available right now. and if you -- >> let's see if we can work something out, then, so you have that availability. >> thank you. let me move to another subject, and i really appreciate your answers on that one. wrongful foreclosures, among particularly military mortgageholders. there have been recent reports, more recently in "the new york times" 700 members of the military had homes seized and other borrowers who were current on their mortgage payments also homes seized. those improper evictions dwarfing the numbers that were previously known. a sign of a larger problem, a sign that the recent settlement may have been based on incorrect, perhaps untruthful information, in my view, more than ample basis for investigation by the department of justice under either the rico statute or wrongful, improper statements under federal law, punishable criminally. i'd like your commitment, again, to work with me and others here on the responsibility of an investigation based on those disclosures that undermine the good faith and fairness of that settlement and the government's improvement in it. >> i'll make that commitment. when we look at what i say that with regard to service members, i did a tape i think last week for something that is for veterans to make them aware of fraud, more basic fraud that they face that too often goes unreported by them for a whole variety of reasons to try to encourage them to share information up the chain of command and also to make sure there is a mechanism so that from the defense department to the justice department we're made aware of trends along the lines that you're describing and we will become involved. i will work with you on that. >> thank you. and one final area that i think is and should be of interest to you, sexual assault in the military. >> yes. >> is prosecuted and punished under its own system and yet it is a predatory criminal act that in my view should be punished with a severity and aggressiveness that is lacking right now. and as a member of the armed services committee, i am speaking to -- seeking to help increase the completeness and fairness of this system to protect men and women from sexual assault, sometimes the most severe sexual assault imaginable. and you have resources, a perspective personally as a prosecutor, obviously the best prosecutors and investigative agents in the whole country and i would again respectfully ask your commitment that you will help us on the armed services committee with your expertise and your commitment to fairness and aggressive prosecution of these laws. >> yeah. those are obviously -- not obviously but those are primarily the responsibility of the defense department. >> right. >> secretary panetta certainly focused attention on that. i expect secretary hagel will as well. if we can help we will do all we can. you know, i think about the young people who put their lives on the line in service to our nation, young women in particular, and look at the numbers that you see repeatedly year after year. and that's an extremely disturbing thing to do that you volunteer for your nation and as a result of that you become a victim of a sexual assault and that is simply -- that is simply not acceptable. >> i want to make clear that my asking for your assistance is not to in any way disparage or denigrate the good faith and efforts of secretary hagel and the joint chiefs and all the military leadership to making this system work better. they are in my view thoroughly committed to that goal. thank you. >> thank you. >> i would note, too, and it's been my experience since he's been attorney general, anytime i called attorney general holder on any issue we'd be able to contact almost immediately and i do appreciate that. i appreciate the senators who've come here today. i realize we're under horrendous snow condition. i think it's up to half an inch now. i commented to somebody that, of course, senator klobuchar coming from minnesota or senator blumenthal, senator grassley, real snow -- i had a weather report at home that said -- we had a weather report to be expected dusting of snow no more than five or six inches. in other news today -- of course five or six inches down here, they would be interrupting a presidential press conference. senator grassley had one more question and then we'll wrap up. >> this won't take seven minutes. i didn't run over seven minutes like we had people run over three minutes. on the issue of bank for prosecution. i'm concerned that we have a mentality of too big to jail in the financial sector of sprinting from fraud cases to terrorist financing and money laundering cases and i cite hsbc. so i think we're on a slippery slope. so that's background for this question. i don't -- i don't have recollection of d.o.j. prosecuting any high-profile financial criminal convictions in either companies or individuals. assistant general, attorney general brewer said that one reason why d.o.j. has not brought these prosecutions is that it reaches out to quote-unquote experts to see what affect the prosecutions would have on the financial markets. so then on january 29, senator brown and i requested details on who the so-called experts are. so far we've not received any information. maybe you're going to, but why have we not been provided the names of the experts d.o.j. consults with -- as we requested on january 29? because we need to find out why we aren't having these high-profile cases. then i got one follow-up. maybe you can answer that quickly. >> your letter, senator, we did not, as i understand it, retain experts outside of the government in making determinations with regard to hsbc. if we can put that aside for a minute, though, the concern you raised is one that i frankly share. i'm not talking about hsbc now. that may not be appropriate. i am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them when we are hit with indications that if you do prosecute, if you do bring a criminal charge it will have a negative impact on the national economy, perhaps even the world economy, and i think that is a function of the fact that some of these institutions have become too large. again, not talking about hsbc. this is a more general comment. i think it has an inhibiting influence, impact on our ability to bring resolutions that i think would be more appropriate. and i think that is something that we -- you all need to consider. so the concern that you raise is actually one that i share. >> well, then, do you believe that the investment of bankers who were repackaging and selling committing a criminal fraud, or is it a case of just not being aggressive and effective enough to actually have the information to prove that they did something fraudulent and criminal? >> we've looked at those kinds of cases, and i think we've been as appropriately aggressive. these are not easy cases necessarily to make. you sometimes look at these cases and you see that things were done wrong. and then the question is whether or not they were illegal. i think people in our criminal division, people in our attorney's office in the southern district of new york, for instance, have been i think as aggressive as they could be, brought cases where we think we could have brought them. i know that in some instances that has not been a saving answer to people, but we have, as i said, been as aggressive as i think we could have been. >> if you constitutionally jail a c.e.o. of a major corporation, you're going to send a pretty wide signal to stop a lot of activity that people think they can get away with. thank you very much. >> and you're absolutely right, senator. you know, the greatest turn is not by the prosecution of a corporation, although that's important. the greatest deter in effect is to prosecute the individuals in the corporation who are responsible for those decisions. we've done that in the u.b.s. matter that we brought about and we try to do that whenever we can. but the point you make is a good one. >> thank you. i again appreciate you being here. i'll probably see you at the signing of the leahy-crapo violence against women act. we had to leave out for procedural reasons the few visas that are important to law enforcement. and i hope you'll work with us as we do immigration reform. because that would complete the whole legislation. it would -- it would protect victims but also help law enforcement have a better chance of prosecuting people who have shown violence against women. >> yes. >> mr. chairman, thank you for your leadership on that. i just want to reiterate how important that is. >> you were there every step of the way. the fact that we were able to get such strong bipartisan help, and i know that the senator from minnesota talked a lot of -- to a lot of people on the other side of the aisle. it's nice to have senators do things together, both sides of the aisle, and the country stands better for it. we stand in recess. >> we the public have the right to know how many civilians have been killed in our name and where. we want to know where you're allowing signature strikes where we can kill people on the basis of suspicious activity only and what about secondary strikes that killed rescue workers? we just came back from pakistan. we met families who have lost their loved ones. innocent people. 176 children who've been killed with our drone strikes. how do you think that's legal? and what about a 16-year-old from denver, u.s. denver, killed in a drone strike? was he a high-level al qaeda operative or was it a mistake? if it's a mistake, who's going to pay for that mistake? attorney general holder, we have the right to get answers to that. we the public because you are doing the drone killings in our name. >> three out of four americans killed by mistake, you admitted, try out of four americans killed by mistake. >> is it true that this -- male killed by a drone strike, is the militant, is that true, mr. holder, as reported in "the new york times" on may 29, 2012? senator feinstein said she was unaware. >> count every military aide as a combatant? what would happen if another country tried to do that here in the united states? the precedent we are setting is for a world of chaos, a world of lawlessness. and because this hearing is over, we the public finally get to say something because during the hearing we cannot even raise our signs above our shoulders. a professional hearing but it's unprofessional -- >> thank you for coming. >> 4,700 people in countries where we are not at war. now is that a conventional program? >> we need to stop testifying, kill our drones. stop the fighting. killer drones strike. >> we are playing into the hands of extremists like al qaeda and we are opening new drone bases in places like saudi arabia that are just going to blow back against us. this program is a national security threat, and we are the citizens who are speaking up for our national security because our government is not doing anything to make us secure. in fact, you're making us more hated around the world which is going to mean more attacks against us. >> the targeted assassinations is not what this country stands for. this is an outrage against the way -- our way of life. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> trying to get some oversight in these hearings. it's time for the committee to do real oversight. if they don't have access to the public documents written by the attorney general's office, how are they supposed to do any kind of oversight? >> senator leahy said he was disappointed. why doesn't he issue a subpoena? >> no. and attorney general holder says the president wants more transparency. who is it that is above the president who is keeping these memos from the committees that are supposed to do oversight? is the c.i.a. more -- >> they proved that pressure works and not pressure doesn't work. for more than a year they asked for these memos and the administration didn't give them. then when they said they were going to hold up brennan's confirmation, the administration handed over the memos. senator leahy wants the memos, he has to issue a subpoena. >> we need the memos now. >> the public needs to see these memos. i want to know why after four years this administration that says it's going to be the most transparent administration hasn't given to the committees in the oversight the information they need. and we the public, we want to see these memos. and it's more than just the memos. we want to see how they're justifying the fact that they can kill not only americans but non-americans. what happened to 176 children who've been killed by these drone strikes? will we acknowledge those mistakes? will somebody be held accountable for those mistakes? and those mistakes will continue. and especially we want to know why the c.i.a. has the right to use lethal drones. the c.i.a. is not a military organization. it's a civilian organization. it shouldn't have the authority to use lethal weapons like drones. >> and i'd like to ask senator lindsey graham about this killing of americans sitting at a cafe which he seems to condone. senator graham now is a proponent for the assassined drones now killing american citizens, he says. so we have a lot to hold the congress accountable for. not doing things. not providing transparency. not shutting down the government to get after these memos. i mean, there are ways to go after getting the memos. >> senator feinstein said after the brennan hearing in "politico" saying she's unaware of the reports that the c.i.a. was counting military aged males as militants when they were killed by drone strikes. six months after this was reported by "the new york times" on may 29, 2012. six months. senator feinstein, chair of the senate intelligence committee, unaware of what was reported in "the new york times" that a major expo zeh on drone strikes -- expose on drone strikes. >> part of her responsibility. are we supposed to be the -- >> if you guys don't mind stepping in the hallway. >> just want to let you know, the hearing with attorney general eric holder, the judiciary committee hearing will lead off our primetime schedule here on c-span at 8:00 p.m. eastern. on c-span2, a group of bipartisan senators hold a briefing on new legislation proposed to reduce gun violence. and on c-span3, tim gray of "variety magazine "discusses violence in the entertainment industry. and tomorrow on "washington journal," texas congressman joaquin castro discusses his political and legislative goals as a freshman member of the 113th congress. also on tomorrow's "journal," the california representative tom mcclintock talks about automatic spending cuts. and federal spending for the rest of the fiscal year. the house passed a continuing resolution earlier today that funds the government until the end of september. also tomorrow, your emails, of course, phone calls and tweets, "washington journal" is live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. senator ron paul, kentucky senator ron paul has been on the senate floor for nearly six hours. he's conducting a filibuster, opposing the nomination of john brennan to be the next director of the central intelligence agency. among the reasons that senator paul is holding the filibuster is he's questioning the president's authority to order targeted strikes against noncombatant u.s. citizens. he started the filibuster about 11:45 eastern this morning. here's what he had to say. to filibuster john brennan's nomination for the c.i.a. i will speak until i can no longer speak. i will speak as long as it tak takes, until the alarm is sounded from coast to coast that our constitution is important, that your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no american should be killed by a drone on american soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to b guilty by a court. that americans could be killed in a cafe in san francisco or in a restaurant in houston or at their home in bowling green, kentucky, is an abomination. it is something that should not and cannot be tolerated in our country. i don't rise to oppose john brennan's nomination simply for the person. i rise today for the principle. the principle is one that as americans we have fought long and hard for and to give up on that principle, to give up on the bill of rights, to give up on the fifth amendment protection that says that no person shall be held without due process, that no person shall be held for a capital offense without being indicted. this is a precious american >> senator rand paul of kentucky, still on the senate floor, going on six hours. earlier on the house floor they passed the continuing resolution, funding the federal government through the end of fiscal year 2013. the vote was 267-151. we talked to a capitol hill reporter for some background and a look at what's ahead with the bill. >> the house has passed a bill to keep the government operating past march 27. what are the bill's prospects in the senate? >> this bill is probably going to be rewritten substantially when it gets to the democratic controlled senate. the appropriations committee members were anxious to replace it completely with what they call an omnibus appropriations bill which would put all of the 12 appropriation bills for cabinet agencies and independent agencies into the bill. however, the senate leadership has decided that that is going to be too cumbersome and too complicated but they'll try to offer some of those bills and send it back to the house. the house republicans said today that they're open to negotiating redistribution of the spending cuts that are in this bill, but they are affirm in their statement that we cannot increase the top line number which is $982 billion is the spending rate for this current fiscal year. >> the bill that passed the house is a republican bill. how about senate republicans, how do they view this house measure that's coming to them? >> i think that the senate republicans would be just as happy to go along with this bill. there may be some spending priorities that they would join the democrats. in fact there are several bipartisan bills that came out of the senate appropriations committee. but i think that the democratic leadership has calculated that it would be very complicated, for instance, controversial for them to try to put certain aspects of the spending appropriation plan into effect and the republicans would block that. so there's going to be a usual dance in the senate where majority leader harry reid tries to find a bill with 60 votes -- will get 60 votes to pass the republican filibuster. >> how does this continuing resolution address that the cuts that are already in effect or went into effect with the sequester on march 1? >> they implement the sequester. they assume that the sequester has taken place. this bill was originally written at the spending level of $1.03 trillion. this is for defense and other discretionary domestic programs, not entitlements like medicare, medicaid and social security. and then there's a clause in it that says the sequester will take effect so it moves the level down to $982 billion. that prompted a lot of complaints on the floor from house democrats because it does nothing in their minds to stop the sequester which they say is onerous and a meat ax approach to cutting. >> well, the current short-term spending measures ends in three weeks, march 27. what's the process from here in the senate, what's the end game? >> the end game is to try to get a bill that will pass both houses. there may be some ping-pong, as we call it, in the capitol between the two chambers. the senate may pass something that isn't quite what the house wants and which case they would be able to -- they would try to pass something again that the senate would agree to. at the very minimum, the senate will try to get a bill that will clear a filibuster, send it back to the house and see if the house will take it. at that point there might actually be negotiations between the house and senate leadership to come up with something and both chambers could pass in time for the 27th. everybody is saying they don't want a shutdown. i think people are motivated to avoid that. >> well, lastly, what about the white house? what are the administration's priorities in this continuing resolution? >> they issued a statement of policy on this. the president said he would sign something if it was sent to them and this statement of policy notably did not have the boiler point language -- if this passes we would advise the president to veto it. they said they're very disappointed in the fact there are many things in the bill. behaving basically they don't like most cabinet agencies except for defense and veterans affairs departments are forced to deliver services and program initiatives at 2012 fiscal year levels. there's no increase in flexibility in terms of moving the money around. so they want to have that flexibility if they can get it. >> jim rowley, congressional correspondent for bloomberg news, thanks for the update. >> it's a pleasure. >> again, the continuing resolution passed the house earlier by a vote of 276-151. funding the federal government through the end of fiscal year 2013 at current sequestration levels. coming up next, we'll show you a portion of the debate from earlier today on the house floor. ore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. rogers: i rise to present h.r. 933, the department of defense and military construction and veterans affairs appropriations and full year continuing resolution for fiscal year 2013. our nation faces a three-pronged threat to its finances. as we deal with sequestration, the debt ceiling, and most immediately, a looming government shutdown. this bill takes the risk of a government shutdown off the table. funding the government for the remainder of the fiscal year while helping maintain our national security and providing our troops and veterans with consistent, adequate funding. first and foremost, this bill contains fiscal year 2013 appropriations bills for the department of -- department offings defense an veterans affairs. these bills crafted by chairman bill young, chairman of the defense appropriations subcommittee, and very handily done, these bills passed the house with broad, bipartisan support last year, they've been negotiated on a bipartisan basis by the house and senate and agreed to by the senate committee. they do not add a cent to the overall top line of the c.r. and i want to take a minute here to thank bill young and his subcommittee who did such a tremendous job of balancing the interests of the country but with the overriding concern for the security of the country as they drafted and passed on a bipartisan basis the defense appropriations bill. la week, i had the opportunity to ask the joint chiefsf our military if they supported this c.r. package. and the answe was an absolute, whole-hearted yes. in fact, each one of them was asked if it was critical and each one of the joint chiefs said, this is critical. -- critical to the defense of the country. this leglation addresses seve funding constraints that would put our national security in dire straits. military hospitals would not be built, veterans would not be cared for adequately, and our readiness would be seriously jeopardized. with sequestration now in effe, this bill allows the pentagon some leeway to do it best with what it has. the bill provides $518 billion, the same top level -- top line level as last year. within this top line, accounts have to be reprioritized to ensure adequate investment in critical programs such as operation and maintenance while finding savings in lower priority areas. the legislation right sizes spending that would otherwise have been wasted. for instance, we eliminate funding for unneeded spare parts and save funding from outdated programs and projects related to operations in iraq. -- in iraq no longer needed. in addition, the bill provides $71.9 billion in discretionary funding for military construction and veterans affairs. to ensure that our veterans get the care they've earned and that the quality of life in our military is continued. this includes an increase of about $2.5 billion in veterans funding, offset by savings in mitaryonstruction. the remainder of the bill, mr. speaker, funds the rest of the federal government until the end of the fiscal year on septber 30. nearly all funding will remain consistent with current levels, except for the very few exceptions that are needed to prevent catastrophic changes to government programs or to ensure good government. these include provisions allowing critical law enforcement entities to maintain current staffing levels, additional funding for embassy security, and critical weather satellite launches and an extension of the currentay freeze for federal employees including members of the congress. we've also required every single federal agency to provide spending plans to congress to ensure transparency oversight of taxpayer dollars. nearly all the funding in this bill is subject to the president's sequestration bringing the grand total for discretionary spending to around $984 billion. the bill is designed to help with the damage caused by continually putting off the regular annual appropriations bills but it does not solve the many serious problems caused by these automatic spending cuts in sequestration. a full year continuing resolution is not the way this congress should be appropriating taxpayer dollars. each year, we should assess the needs and excesses of our government and make decisions accordingly in the regular appropriations process. we must return to regular order , pass individual spending bills on time and fulfill our constitutional duty to fund government programs wisely and effectively. to do all of this, we have to have a partner in the senate ande have not had that for these several years. our hope springs eternal that the senate will help us get back to regular order. in light of the circumstances we face, we must make a good faith effort to provide limit bud fair and adequate funding for vital government programs and services through the end of the fiscal year. it's up to congress to make these decisions to set the course for our financial future. we must act now to make the most of this difficult situation and that starts with avoiding a government shutdown on march 27 and providing for our national defense and our veterans. this c.r. package is the right thing to do, the right time to do it, and it's the fair thing. so i urge, mr. speaker, my colleagues, to show our nation that we can get our work done by supporting this bill. i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from kentucky reserves. the gentlewoman from new york is recognized. ms. low -- mrs. lowey: before us contains a defense bill and a military construction veterans affair bill adjusting the f.y. 2012 funding levels to meet f.y. 2013 needs. it is unacceptable that federal agencies and departments covered by the 10 remaining bills would be forced to operate under full-year continuing resolutions based on plans, spending levels enacted 15 to 18 months ago. congress' failure to do our job and pass responsible annual spending bills lits our ability to respond to changing circumstances, implement other laws enacted by congress and eliminate funding that is no longer necessary. specifically, this bill will delay implementation of the affordable care act scheduled to begin enrolling participants in october. without i.t. infrastructure to process enrollment and payments, verify eligibility and establish call centers, health insurance for millions of americans would be further delayed. last year's levels will hamper enforcement of dodd-frank protections against improper practices in the financial sector. the bill underfunds head start, child care, essential for many working parents who would otherwise have to quit their jobs. the bill fails to strike outdated language allowing h.u.d. to use public housing agency reserves to fund operations or provide a requested increase to make up for the shortfall resuing in the lowest per unit operating subsidy since 2007 despite rising housing costs. the bill we consider today even denies increases for health care fraud and abuse control and social security disability reviews and s.s.i. eligibility determinations, both of which return more money to the treasury than they cost. and the continuing resolution excludes loan guarantees for jordan necessary to help an important ally stabilize his economy. the effects myolleagues, of these outdated plans and spending levs in the continuing resolution are compounded by congress' failure to replace sequestration with a balanced, responsible, long-term debt reduction plan. the congressional budget office estimates that sequestration would cut economic growth in 2013y a third. that's jobs, that's people's lives. last year, our fragile economy struggled to create a total of $2 -- of 2.2 million jobs. c.b.o. says sequestration will wipe out, get rid of, 750,000 jobs, more than a third of all the jobs created last year. now i want to make it very clear, my colleagues, this bill reaffirms sequestration. the terrible impact of those indiscriminate cuts will begin to take effect. this summer, we can expect significant flight delays, long lines at airports due to furloughs and air traffic controllers, and a hiring freeze and reduced hours for transportation security officers. yesterday, the labor-hhs subcommittee heard testimony from the directors of the national institutes of health and c.d.c. on the detrimental effects these irresponsible cuts will have, include degree clining medical research. fewer child vaccinations, reduced protections against epidemics, just try and explain that to dear friends and neighbors who have children with autism. seniors who are dealing with alzheimer's. friends who have heart, cardiology issues. just try and explain what the nation institutes cuts in research will do in addition to the impact and research on these issues. these are real people who are going to be laid o and impede our future research. all americans rely on timely and accurate weather warnings and forecasts from the national weather service, reduced resources will compromise critical satellites, radar, computer analysis, and modeling. now i am pleased that two bills, the defense bill and the military construction and veterans bill, arehe f.y. 2013 bills that wereagreed on by the house and senate but my colleagues, let's not forget that sequestration will still strike our national defense even if this bill is enaed. another $46 billion will be subtracted from defense spending. most of the civilian work force will face significant furloughs, readiness will still face cuts, and defense health care will need to make some very tough choices with scarce resources. mr. speaker, i cannot mr. speaker, i cannot support this bill because it fails to take responsible steps to support the middle class and really -- in really tough economic times or responsibly address the long-term fiscal heth of our nation. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: does the gentlelady from new york, mrs. lowey, reserve? the gentlewoman reserves. the gentleman from kentucky is recognized. mr. rogers: i yield three minutes to the very distinguished and hardworking chairman of the house armed services committee the gentleman from california. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california is recognized for three minutes. >> i thank the gentleman, the chairman of the appropriations committee, for yielding, and thank him for the great work he's done for getting this bill to the floor. likewise the chairman of the defense appropriations subcommittee. they have done yeomen work to help provide for a national defense. mr. mckeon: i agree with much of what the gentlelady from new york, my good friend, said. sequestration is bad. and if we don't pass this c.r., we'll feel worse than the effects of the sequestration, we'll shut down the whole government. nobody wants to see that. and so i commend her for what she says. this is not perfect. but it keeps a lot of peopl working. i think it's very, very important that we get it done. as chairman of the house armed services committee, i'm happy to see us voting to include a full year appropriations -- defense appropriations bill, as well as full year milary conruction and veterans affair bill. this is very imrtant. at least we have one committee that can do regular order still, and i think that is very important. enacting a full year d.o.d. appropriations bill is the first step toward restoring funding for our military which has been whip sod by the dual combination of the sequester and the c.r. we are operating under. none of our currently serving overseas, the chief of the army, navy, air force, marines, including the chief of -- all of the svices, in their time have ever operated under a real budget. most of the members of congress haven't served uer regular order in seeing how we have really done. so this is a step forward to get us back to regular order. a full year appropriation will allow the service chiefs to cancel programs that we have already caeled in the defense authorization act. it allows them to restore critical shortfalls in their operation and maintenance accounts, and add baca certain amount of training and flying hours. this legislation does not by any members solve sequestration, but it gives our commanders much needed flexibility and gives us time to work on a house budget that restores funding for our military. let me give you just a couple of quk examples of why we need to pass this package and encourage the other body to return to regular order. because a straight c.r. still pipes fundingn certain accounts, the chief of staff of the army is looking at having to curtail 37,000 hours of flying for helicopter pilots at forerutger in alabama where our helicopter pilots go to be trained. that's about 500 to 750 pilots who will not be trained. units preparing now to deploy to afghanistan are not receiving the same training as those who are there now fighting. that is shameful. we need to restore those accounts. this puts those who are preparing to go at greater risk once they arrive in theater. a full year d.o.d. appropriatio which we'll be voting on today, the general will have the authority to restore a lot of those flying hours and critical training for those who are preparing to deploy. just another little example, admiral greener, chief of naval operations has said that if he had the funding that would come from the appropriations bill that we are voting on, he would have the flexibility to move money between accounts. and the navy would be able to keep a carrier strike group and amphibious ready group in the middle east and the pacific through next year. that is crucial to our national security. i would encourage all of our colleagues to support this bill. it's not the perfect but it takes us a long step toward helping secure our national security. i thank the chairman and the chairman of the subcommittee for their great work, yield back my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from kentucky reserves. the gentlelady from new york is recognized. mrs. lowey: mr. mckeon, i just want to emphasize again that the general and the recent appropriations hearing on the defense bill testified that sequester would be a disaster for the military, and it's unfortunate that we are not ridding ourselves of the prospect of the disaster that the sequester bill will result in. i'm delighted to yield two minutes to my distinguished leader, mr. hoyer. the speaker pro tempore: members are reminded to address their comments to the chair and not to other members of the house. the gentleman from maryland is recognized. mr. hoyer: i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: witho objection. mr. hoyer: i agree with the gentlelady who has just spoken. i want to say to my friend, mr. mckeon, this is neither regular order nor rational policy. it ought to be rejected. this c.r. does nothing to address the irrational cuts to dense and nondefense that the sequester will require. it could be very harmful to our economy and to our national security and place the most vulnerable in america at great risk. we should not allow, my colleagues, our government to shut down. but we cannot do business this way. lurching from one manufactured crisis to the next. when we make agreements, we ought to stick to them. and the agreement was, as the chairman has tried to put forward, and i want to congratulate him for that, that we would spend on the discretionary side of the budget at about $1.43 trillion. that is not what this bill cost. -- does. it breaks the deal. nobody expected sequester to take place. and we ought to obviate it cause it will hurt defense, our national security, and our domestic security. mr. speaker, we made an agreement. we ought to keep it. that's not what we have in this c.r. while the defense funding in this package is something i would like to vote for, and the procedures incorporated in the bill i would like to vote for -- let me say as an aside, that is regular order. because when we usually pass c.r.'s, we do it for house passed bills levels, senate passed bill levels, conference levels, but not at a level a year ago. the reason they amended defense and veterans and milcon is because it is irrational and they recognize it's irrational as it relates to the national security. you ought to recognize the irrationalness of the rest of the budget. i ask for another minute. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for a minute. mr. hoyer: while defense funding in this package is something i would like to vote for, it would continue to support the critical national security programs, important in my district but more important than that, important in our country. if congress face to face every manner of manufactured crisis every other month, we cannot govern rationally and it will hurt our people, our economy, and our security. when dysfunctionusts the wheels of congress, it is the american people who suffer. our defense community and the industries will also suffer greatly from the uncertainty that result. i want to vote for appropriation bills that keep the promise we made to each other. i want to vote for appropriations bills that enable us to limit the negative impact of sequestration on our defense community and the most vulnerable in our society, but this c.r. does not do that. this vote will do nothing to lessen the effects of the see quester whose impact is already being felt -- sequester whose impact slr being felt in my district and throughout the country. that is what tells me to vote no on this c.r. i represent 62,000 federal employees, do not want this government to shut down. that is an irrational policy even in see questions her. -- sequester. may i have additional 30 seconds. it demands we vote no on this and pass a c.r. that object veeates sequesr. i urge my colleagues to defeat this c.r. so we can send a message to those who control this chamber that we have a responsibility to our country and to our people to adopt a balanced fiscal plan to reduce our debt and deficit, invest in the growth of the onomy. that is not what this bill does. >> and the continuing resolution passed on the vote of 267-151. it now goes to the u.s. senate. over on the senate side today on capitol hill, the senator from kentucky, rand paul, continues with his filibuster of the nomination of john brennan for c.i.a. director. he's been at it for six hours now. you can follow that on c-span2. also, a number of senators won't be there. a dozen of senators are having a dinner with president obama. the president inviting senator lindsey graham to ask a number of senators to dinner this evening in the nation's capitol, not at the white house. the associated press the president is aimed at jump-starting budget talks and his proposals on immigration and gun control. senator graham was asked about the dinner invitation this afternoon. . >> the one quick statement about the dinner that was supposed to be quiet and nobody knew about it. just ask yourself this, you've been in this business, most of you, you know, a while. it's sad that it makes news. if ronald rage-dinner with members of the senate or bill clinton,s i don't think anybody -- you'd have a hard time getting your editors to report. it the fact that there is a lot of interest in a dinner between the president and a handful of republican senators is a pretty good statement about where we're at as a nation. i'm not blaming anybody. because it takes both parties to get $16 trillion in debt. it's going to take both parties to get out. the president called senator mccain and myself a couple of weeks ago and senator mccain was his opponent, as you all know, in 2008. i see the president reaching out, everybody wants to, you know, be dr. phil about what he's doing. i'm assuming the president wants to talk seriously about the issues of the day. and if he just wants to have a dinner so we can get to know each other better, that's fine with me. so, how do you say no to the president of the united states who would like to have dinner with some of your colleagues? you don't. and anybody who would do that in this business is in the wrong position. so when the president asks i get together a group, i willingly and i was honored to try to do that. where this goes i don't know. i do believe what the president has been doing lately, getting off the campaign trail, back into the normal way of doing business up here of talking to each other, i can't think of any major accomplishment in america in the private or public sector where no one ever talked to each other. so i want to compliment the president for reaching out. i think he's doing the right thing. we need to stop the campaign, the election is over. but i do know where the country's going. if we don't fix entitlements they're going to consume all the money we send to washington in the future and medicare and social security are going to collapse. and i think the president knows that also. i have publicly said that i'm willing to do more revenue if we can really bend the entitlement curve. i'm just speaking for myself. there are other senators who will be giving their views to the president tonight. they will probably try to talk sense into him and he'll try to talk sense into us. i'm encouraged by the president's outreach. i hope it bears fruit. but i know this, if we never talk to each other i know exactly what's going to happen. this country's going to fail. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> all that have briefing tonight on our companion network. here's what it looks like across the c-span networks. tonight at 8:00 ear on c-span, eric holder testifies before the senate judiciary committee on oversight issues at justice department. then on c-span 2, a group of bipartisan senators with senator graham there briefing on new legislation to reduce gun violence. and on c-span 3, tim gray of "variety" magazine discusses violence in the entertainment industry, all that have getting under way at 8:00 p.m. eastern. and tomorrow on "washington journal," texas congressman castro discusses his political and legislative goals as a freshman member of the 113th congress. after that california representative tom mcclintock talks about the automatic spending cuts. and the federal spending the c.r. passed just today. the house passed that resolution by a vote of 267-151. plus tomorrow your phone calls, emails and tweets on "washington journal" live beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. and next up from london. british prime minister's questions. david cameron spoke about bonuses for bankers. no, next up, william hague from london. statement, the secretary of state for foreign and commonwealth affairs. "money rocks" "money rocks". >> secretary william hayes. >> mr. speaker, with permission i'll make a statement on the crisis in syria. the time has come to announce to the house necessary developments in our policy and our readiness to develop it further if the bloodshed continues. two years afr it gans -- began, 10,000 people have died since i last updated the house in early january. that means more people have died in the first two months of this year than in the whole of the first year of the conflict. the total estimated death toll is now over 70,000 people. the regime has used scud ballistic missiles against civilian areas and there's evidence of grave human rights violations, war crimes and crimes against humanity including massacres, torture, summary executions and a systematic policy of rape and sexual violence by the regime forces and its militia. a year ago one million people needed humanitarian aid inside syria. that figure is now up to four million people out of a total population of 21 million. 40,000 people are fleeing syria each week, three-quarters of them women and children. the number of refugees have increased thirtyfold over the last ten months, and today the sad milestone of one million refugees has been reached. the population of lebanon which i visited two weeks ago has risen by 10% from the influx of destitute people. this is a desperate situaon of increasingly extreme humanitarian suffering. there is no sign that the assad regime currently intends to enter into a genuine political process. they appear to believe they can defeat their opponents militarily, and they count on being shielded by some countries at the united nations security council. it will be necessary to turn each of these calculations on its head if the conflict is to come to a peaceful end. securing a diplomatic breakthrough remains, of course, our objective. last week i discussed it with john kerry here in lndon and other close partners with the friends of the syrian people in rome. in rome i also met the syrian national coalition's president and welcomed his brave announcement that the national coalition is open to direct talks with members of the assad regime. we continue our efforts to develop common ground with russia. i will have talked with the russian foreign minister later this afternoon and next week also here in london. and at the end of january, the u.n. a arab league special representative for syria set out a credible plan for the establishment of a transitional authority in syria. we're working with allies to achieve, if at all possible, security council backing for a transition process, and i'm meeting mr. bra brahimi again ao this afternoon. the fact is diplomacy is taking far too long, and the prospect of an mealed breakthrough is -- an immediate breakthrough is slim. lance armstronger number of refugees and confrontation. the international community cannot stand still in the face of this reality. our policy has to move towards more active efforts to prevent the loss of life in syria, and this means stepping up our support to the opposition and thereby increasing the pressure on the regime to acct a political solution. what we face is not a chce between diplomacy on the one hand and practical assistance on the other. helping the opposition is crucial to bringing about a political transition and saving lives, and both must be pursued together. we will always be careful in how we develop our policy, but our readiness to develop it further should be unmistakeable, particularly for the as 15d regime -- assad regime. what happens in syria is vital to our national interests for three reasons. the firs is the growth of extremism. the vast majority of people opposing the regime are ordinary people trying to defen their commitments and gain freedom for their country, but syria today has become the top destination for jihadists anywhere in the world, and we're already seeing a rise in sectarian violence and attacks using car bombs. we cannot allow syria to become another breeding ground for terrorists who pose a threat to our national security. second, the crisis is undermining the peace of the region. there have been reports of clashes on the iraqi border and in lebanon. we are increasingly concerned about th rege's readiness to use chemical weapons. we have warned the assad regime that the use of chemical weapons would lead to a serious response from the iernational community. those who order the use and who use chemical weons will be held to account. there's also credible information that iran is providing considerable military support to the regime true its revolutionary guard corps including personnel, weapons and direct financi assistance. third, we and our allies must always be prepared to respond to situations of extreme humanitarian distress. our foreign policy is inseparable from supporting internional law. we must assist the genuine, moderate and democratic forces in syria who are in dire need of help and who feel abandoned by the international community. the longer this conflict goes on, the more human suffering, persecution of minorities, radicalization and sectarian conflict there will be. despite these three compelling arguments, there will still be those who say britain should have nothing to do with syria. but we cannot look the other way while human rights are flouted, and it wod be height of irresponsibility to ignore potential threat to our own security. so i want to explain to the house today the next step in increasing our support to the syrian people, and i emphasize there may well have to be further steps. we have contributed nearly 140 million pounds in humanitarian aid so far. this is funding foot, clean drinking water, medical stabs, blankets and shelter for many tens of thousands of people. we're supporting the syrian national coalition's ownfforts to deliver aid inside syria, and we will seek new ways to expand access for aid across the country while preparing to help a future government deal with the aftermatof the conflict. we've also committed a total of 9.4 million pounds so far in nonlethal support to the syrian op suggestion, civil society and human rights defenders. we've trained more than 300 syrian journalists and activists, and we're providing satellite communication devices to document human rights violences and abuses. i informed the house in january that we would seek to amend the european union sanctions on syria to open up the possibility of further assistance if the situation deteriorated. on thursday we finalized with our european partners a specific exemption to the e.u. sanctions to permit the provision of nonlethal military equipment and all forms of technical assistance to the syrian national coalition where it is spended for the approximate of civilians -- intended for the protection of civilians. this is important no our ability to help -- in our ability to help save lives. it can include advice and training on how to maintain security in areas no longer controlled by the regime, on coordination between civilian and military councils, on how to protect civilians and minimize the risks to them and how to maintain security during a transition. we will now provide such assistance, advice and training. we intend to respond to the opposition's request to provide equipment for search and rescue operations and incinerators and collection kits to event the spread of disease. we will help local councils to repair ectricity and water supplies to homes, and we will also respond to the opposition's request for further water purification kits and equipment to help civilian political leaders operate and communicate. we will also now provide new types of nonlethal equipment for the protection of civilians goinbeyond what we have given before. in conjunction withhe national coalition, we are identiing the protective equipment which will be of most assistance to them and likely to save most lives. i will keep the house updated, but it will certainly include, for instance, armored four-wheel drive vehicles to help opposition figures move around more freely as well as personal protection uipment including body armor. we will be able to provide testing equipment to the opposition to enable evidence gathering in the hrific event of chemical weapons use, and we will also fund training to help armed groups understand their responsibilities and obligations under international law and international human rights standards. any human rights violations or abuses are unacceptable on all sides. we've allocated nearly three million pounds in something this month to support this work and an additional ten million pounds thereafter comprising $20 million in nonlethal equipment and practical support to the syrian op is decision and civilian -- opposition and civilian society. and we hope other countries will offer similar assistance. the cabinet is in no doubt that this is a necessary, proportionate and lawful response to a situation of extreme humanitarian suffering, and though there is no practicable alternative. all our systems will be carefully calibrated and monitored as well as legal and will be aimed at alleviating the human catastrophe and supporting moderate groups. the process in this way was difficult, and the decision came down to the wire. we persisted with it because we believe it is preferable to have a united e.u. approach. in our view if a solution is not found and the conflict continues, we and the rest of the european union will have to be ready to move further, and we should not rule out any option for saving lives. in case further necessary amendments to the sanctions regime prove impossible to agree, we stand ready to take any domestic measures necessary to insure that core sanctions on syria remain effective. this is a situation in syria where extreme humanitarian distress and growing dangers to international peace a security must weigh increasingly heavy in the balance against other risks. with this crisis now becoming one of major dimensions with any standard with millions of people on the move and tens of of thousands dead, tens of thousands more in daily danger of losing their lives, the world's most volatile region and growing tension and political deadlock endured for two years, our policy cannot be static, nor our position indifferent. the situation of growing gravity requires a steadily more active approach. learning the lessons of previous conflicts d always emphasizing the need for a political and diplomatic result of the crisis but also being prepared to use increased pressure to try to bring this about. we will continue to keep the house properly informed as we press for an end to the conflict, provide life-saving assistance and work to insure that syria has the political transition which people deserve. >> [inaudible] alexander. >> thank you, mr. speaker. can i thank the foreign secretary for his statement and, indeed -- [inaudible] this month marks the second anniversary of the start of this brutal on flick. two years on, as the foreign secretary has rightly pointed out, the death toll is now estimated at some 07,000 and is rising -- 70,000 and is rising by the day. only today the united nations announced that the number of civilian refugees has now reached one million. half of these refugees are children. more than 400,000 since the first of january, 2013, alone. and more than,000 are reported to be fleeing every day. the united nations tay declared that syria is spiraling towards full-scale disaster. so, mr. speaker, as the number of casualties rise, frustrations too have been growing, and this frustration has understandably led to renewed calls to the international community to do more. the primary responsibility for this crisis rests with assad and his regime. but, mr. speaker, does the foreign secretary accept that the deteriorating situation in syria also represents an abject failure on behalf of the international community and they share a collective responsibility for that? it is right that efforts must now intensify, but the key issue is the breadth of these efforts, how these efforts are channeled and how likely they are to deliver results? first, mr. speaker, on international diplomatic efforts, the stalemate at the united nations security council is more than just frustrating, it is deplorable. the case must be made to russia and china that supporting or aiding assad not only harms syria, but harms their own interests and, indeed, standing within the wider region. the canhe foreign secretary or se out what recommendations he will make in london next week specifically on the prospects and the changes in the security council? separately on sanctions, the issue at present is not necessarily about new sanctions, but effective enforcement of existing sanctions. given his recent visit, does the foreign secretary agree with me that more must be done to insure that countries fully comply with the existing sanctions to which they have already signed up? third, on the issue of international accountability, the responsibility for the crisis as i made clear primarily rests with the assad regime, and the perpetrators must ultimately be held to account. does the foreign secretary agree that efforts to publish the name of syrian officers ordering the ongoing atrocities are vital as they could serve as a clear signal of spent that they will face -- of intent that they will face justice for their crimes and, of course, that includes the use of chemical weapons. fourth, on the issue of peace talks, the leader of the syrian national coalition, last month reportedly offered to engage in talks on a political settlement without demanding assad's resignation. in his comments in the interview given last week by assad, assad claimed he was ready to negotiate with anyone, including militants who surrender their arms. neither of offers have yet been accepted, nor can we make a judgment as to the spirit with which they were intended, but can the foreign secretary offer his assessment of whether or not they constitute t a slight narrowing between the gap of the syrian authorities and opposition forces? finally, mr.peaker, let me turn to the central issue of the u.k. support for the syrian opposition a the announcement and the statement made today. it is right that the u.k. is at the forefront of coordinating internatnal efforts to deliver aid to those most in need both with within and beyond the syrian borders, and i welcome announcements to that effect. when it comes the our support for the syrian opposition forces, it is vital that all of our support must continue to be targeted and accountable if it's to be effective. so, mr. speaker, the foreign secretary has today said the government will mve towards, and i quote directly, more active efforts to prevent the loss of life in syria. it is right that the international community must increase their efforts, b it is vital that the parameters of these efforts are clearly set out, defined and uderstood. indeed, on this issue the foreign secretary's statement at times raised more questions than answers as to the real direction he is suggesting for british government policy. the foreign secretary has today spoken of the amendments made to the e.u. arms embargo. i welcome the fct that these changes were agreed at the e.u. foreign affairs council. those amendments were focused on insuring that the right the to known lethal equipment could be delivered to opposition forces. but, mr. speaker, the work of the foreign office minister in the house on monday seemed to add some confusion to an already complex issue. when addressing the house on monday, the minister said, and i quote directly, this is not about lifting any arms embargo. mr. speaker, he then went on to say about the recent amendments to the existing e.u. arms embargo that it was about insuring that all options are on the table and that e.u. countries have maximum flexibility the to provide the opposition with all necessary assistance to protect civilians. mr. speaker, i think given these statements it is understandable that there is currently some confusion over the government's position that requires further clarification. so can the foreign secretary today say some more about the next steps that he anticipated in his statement? can he confirm whether or not the government will be pushing for an e.u. arms embargo to be lifted in and can he also set out what, if any, further amendments to the embargo he will be calling for? the foreign secretary has committed that when it comes to lifting therms embargo, that the risks of arms falling into the wrong hands is one of the reasons we don't do it now. we agree with him that the risk of this is, indeed, very serious. so can he, therefore, set out to the house what wouldave to change on the ground in syria for him to change his view as to the relative risks involved in such a strategy? does he accept the reality is that today syria is replete with arms and will he accept the very great difficulties involved in guaranteeing the end use of weapons given the lack of clarity today about the identity, the intent and, indeed, the tacticsf some of the rebel forces? does he accept that it is possible that if europe or indeed the west more generally were to decide to arm the rebels, that russia or, indeed, iran as he reference inside his remarks would simply increase their provision of arms to the assad regime? rather than pushing for the emrgo to be to be relaxed, amended or lufted altogether, can he ask him to direct his forts towards getting the russians and chinese to get an arms embargo? the most effec thive way of cutting off a key lifeline to the regime. somewhat curiously, the foreign secretary having previously mentioned the fact that al-qaeda are known to be operating in syria was silent in his remarks today. in light of increased u.k. support for the opposition forces, can the foreign secretary set out what is the british government assessment of the present level of this activity by al-qaeda and related jihad u.s. groups in syria? the can he give any assunces about the degree of authority and control exercised by the fnc over the wide range of opposition forces operating on the ground? the foreign -- >> i'm mildly alarmed by my sightf a further full page of text from the right honorable gentleman, but i know he'll put my mind at rest when he tells me he's not trying to deal with it. >> i will endeavor to keep my remarks as short as possible. i would simply say i indicated when listening to the feign secretary's statements, it had begged more questions than answers, but i'm mindful, so let me conclude with following remarks. i understand frustrations are growing, but a strategy borne of frustration is less likely to deliver than one based on strategic insight. surely the priority now for britain should be to work to unipie t -- unify the syrian opposition. syria needs to see a deescalation and a political resolution. while the government has our pport for its action toss provide humanitarian and nonlethal assistance to syria announced today, it is far from clear that taking steps to intensify this conflict in the months ahead would do anything to reduce the present level of violence being suffered by the syrian people. >> mr. speaker, the right honorable gentleman correctly draws attention, as i have done, to the extent of the human suffering. and the fact that the united naons has launched the largest ever appeal in financial terms for humanitarian terms just underlines the catastrophic scale of that suffering, and we must all remember in our remarks that that is the background to this, and that is the background for decidi what we have to do in that situation. um, he recommended something towards the end of his statement, some of which we have done such as work to unify the syrian opposition. of course, that's what we've done for many months, and they have been unified. and to the extent that that n be practical aclvein the national coalition, that is the group we have recognized as the legitimate representatives of the syrian people. they may not be, i don't suppose any opposition or any political grouping wl be perfect in our eyes in this country or any other country, but i don't believe that there will be a better attempt or a greater success at unifying the syrian opposition than the national coalition. m some other things that he was recommending i have to say would be wonderful if they could be achieved such as russian and chinese agreement to impose an arms embargo of the whole world on syria. of course, we would support that. but i have to say and, of course, we will go over all this ground with the russians again at the meetings that i've said will take place ts afternoon and next week, there is no prospect that i've seen of russia agreeing to such arms embargo. and so it's a good thing to wish for, but in pctical, diplomat terms there is no possibility at the moment of that being achieved. and that is the background to the decisions that we have to take. there are many things that would bear preferable that an immediate agreement would be reacd straight away on a negotiated political transition in syria, and, of course, he asks quite rightly about the how serious we should take the offers to negotiate. and i certainly believe having talked to the president of the national coalition last week that his offer not only is very sincere, he would love it to be taken up. and that he really means that he will negotiate with members of the regime. without firing systems on the departure of assad. but the insistence by president assad such as in this weekend interview, theregime is ready to negotiate is something we've heard for two years and has never turned into actual substance. of course, we will discuss with mr. brahimi again this afternoon whether those statements can be used to bring both sides closer together. that's part of his job to try to do that. and, but the evidence over the last two years is that in current circumstances offers to negotiate by the regime are not sip sere and are not followed up and do not lead to the sort of progress we all want to see. and so it is against that background of the diplomatic deadlock, the political stalemate while tens of thousands of people die that i argue that we have to do what we can. yes, in a very cautious and considered way and a very clearly thought out way to try to change that situation and to try to save human lives. as best we can working, of course, at all times with our part nevers and our ally -- partners and our allies unincluding in the arab world. and there is a meeting of the foreign ministers of the arab league today. and we will continue to use every diplomatic effort. but this is the situation i've described and that he has described is not one in which our policy can remain static. he's quite right to say that the international community has been an abject failure collectively. the united nations security council has not shouldered its responsibilities. and we've tried many times to put that right. our resolutions have been vetoed, and we have been working in the last month since mr. brahimi's last briefing to the council to find a new common way forward in the security council. again, we will discuss this with the russians in the coming hours, but this has not emerged in a month of discussions behi the scenes in new york. so we all have to ask ourself toes given that sittion, are we going to hold our policy completely static, or are we going to show we are prepared to change as the situation deteriorates? reluctantly, perhaps. cautiously, at all times. and i target we must be prepared to show that increased level of support for the opposition and that it has to take practical form if we're to exert any pressure on the regime and, indeed, on russia as well to successfully negotiate about this. and the parameters of what we're talking about are, i hope, clearly set out in the statement i've given because they are set out clearly in the amendment to th e.u. arms embargo. it is amended, not lifted. the arms embargo remains in place. these are specific exemptions for nonlethal military equipment and for technical assistance for the protection of civilians, and i've just given some examples in my statement of what that means in practice. as to the future, the e.u. nctions have now been rolled over with that amendment for three months, and so there will be a further discussion in may about the renewal of such sanctions. and the government will form then, e house will be able to form its view, every honorable member will be able to form their view of what we should do in whatever decision we have arrived at in may about further amendments if they are necessary to the embargo. so i think the parameters are clear, the policy is clear, and what i want to make clear today is its direction is clear which is we must be prepared to do more in a situation of such slaughter and of such suffering and that a policy, a more static policy would not measure up to the depravity of this situation -- the depravity of this situation. >> [inaudible] >> i regret to say that i cannot see how any of them will have any serious prospect of reducing the length of this conflict and preventing the massacre of tens of thousands of more syrians. will the foreign secretary accept th until such time as the syrian opposition have the military equipment that will enablehem to defeat the assad reme and thereby bring the conflict to an end earlier than would otherwise be the case, we will see a continuation of tens of thousands of people being killed, and the extremists in the opposition will benefit from that delay? what would the foreign secretary have to be persuaded of to accept that military support to the opposition in a controlled and responsible way is, indeed, necessary? >> well, i think what in fact, most of the house would have to be persuaded of is that there was absolutely no alternative remaining. and my right honorable friend s put the case, put the case for a long time, actually, for us to go much further than i have said today, for the actual arming of the opposition movements in syria by western countries. um, the difficulties of that are once that the right honorable gentleman, the shadow foreign secretary referred to, and also, of course, we have to recognize that the conflict is already militarized in syria. opposition groups do have access to substantial quantities of weons, and those weapons are already reaching, are already there inside syria. there is such a flow of weapons. so i think it is right for the development of our policy to be graduated, for us to show our readiness to deliver increased assistance, the willingness of european countries and the united states to amend our policy as the, if the situation continues the deteriorate. but we have to do that in a way that commands general support, and we have to do it in a way that poses the least danger to the increased militarization of the conflict, and that' why i think this is the right balance to strike rather than to move to the position my right honorable friend has consistently advocated. >> mr. jack straw. >> thank you, mr. speaker. would the foreign secretary say that a fair summary of the position we've reached is that we are now providing or every kind of assistance to the military forces of the opposition short of explosives, gu and bullets that actually do the killing? and i have no objections to that. i think it's essential. but would he also acknowledge that in my judgment he's right not to rule out the option of direct lethal military supplies, the strategic, diplomatic consequences of any such decision and the degre to which we could, frankly, get bogged down in a kind of cold war, proxy war many that situation really needs to be thought through very carefully, indeed, before you make a positive decision? >> yes, i very much agree with the right honorable gentleman. he accurately characterizes the position, although perhaps putting it too strongly to say we're providing every kind of assistance short of heath -- lethal. we'll provide assistance of that nature that is for the protection of civilians, and that is an important requirement, and we will absolutely, we will interpret that exactly. it has to be for the protection of civilians. so he went a bit too far in his characterizati to have the position. but he is right, of course, and for the reasons i was just speaking about a moment ago it would be a further, and it would be a bigger stance to say we are sending lethal equipment. and we have taken no decision to do that, and we have no current plan to do that. but it is necessary, of course, to be clear that in a situation of this gravity and of this, of the possible implications of the peace of the whole region we can't rule out options. we can't definitively rule it out, and that was the thrust of his question. >> [inaudible] campbell. >> my right honorable friend gives a compelling analysis of the deteriorating situation in syria, and the measures he announced should be not only accepted, should be welcomed by the house so far as they're designed to alleviate suffering and loss of life. but as we approach the tenth anniversary of the mistaken military action against saddam hussein, does he understand that there are many of us in the house or who are concerned lest we might drift towards something that could be described as military intervention? >> well, i'm grateful to my right honorable friend for the measures that i've announced to be welcomed by the house, and, of course, welcome that support. and, yes, i absolutely understand that after more than a decade of conflict in different ways people are always anxious about new conflict. that doesn't mean, however, we can stick our heads in the sand, that we can ignore new conflicts that have risen in the world that can affect us for all the reasons i have described. it does mean that our response to them has to be very intelligent, has to be very well calculated. and i think we can say quite clearl on, answering the art of his question, there's no western government that's advocating military intervention, military intervention of the western nation or of any nations into the conflict in syria. the discussion is entirely focused on the degree of assistance that cannons should be delivered to the opposition inside syria. that's what the discussion is centered on rather than on an external military intervention. >> [inaudible] >> mr. speaker, will he accept that the logical next step of the strategy which he's been pursuing now for over six monthsnot more is to arm -- months if not more is to arm the opsition? and i thk it's profoundly mistaken. he's eloquently condemned and carried the whole house every time he's made a statement these last six months, the horror, the par barety of the assad regime. just going for regime change in what is a civil war with a shia/sunni conflict there, a reincarnation of the cold war as well is not going to ever achieve its objective. what he should be doing is instead of just promoting the opposition's call for negotiations, you should actually test assad's willingness to negotie pressed over the weekend, test it to destruction. and he's not doing that. he's pursuing a failed strategy, a monumental failure of diplomacy, and it's making the situation worse. >> here, here. >> well, the right honorable gentleman doesn't really help his case in the way that he describes e government's position. and, of course, it very much follows from what i've been saying in answer to the shadow foreign secretar that we believe the apparent offer to negotiate by president assad must be it'sed, absolutely. so we will certainty do that, and the right honorable gentleman and i will agree strongly on that. you would have to think if he was of in government today that if that doesn't work and over the last two years it hasn't worked, then what else do we do? and -- well, he says from a sedentary position it hasn't been tried, it's been tried countless times. kofi annan went to damascus countless times. every possibility has been given to the regime to negotiate, and they have never entered into a sip sere or meaningful -- sincere or meaningfu situation. that being the case, it is not adequate to watch slaughter on this scale and say we will stick our heads in the sand about it. it is important to have a foreign policy that relieves humanitarian suffering and uplds human rights. and i would have thought that was something the right honorable gentleman would always have been in favor of. >> mr. richard ottoway. >> the foreign secretary's position in not supplying weapons to the rebels, it is perfectly clear that someone is supplyin weapons to the rebels at present, and isn't the -- [inaudible] will e up fighting against a shia-backed militants backed by iran, lebanon and iraq sometime in the future? >> um, well, of course the increased sectarian nature of the conflict is one of our great concerns. that is the reason why we have to do everything we can to, everything we can reasonably do to shorten the conflict. because that wll only get worse as this goes on. the conflict in syria is already militarized, as my honorable friend says, weapons are being obtained by all the factions fighting in syria including by the military council working with the national coalition. but i feel the longer it goes on, the more it will have a sectarian nature, and the more there will be opportunities for extremists to take hold and, therore, giving our assistance to moderate forces forces and no extremist forces is one of the ways in which we can try to shape this situation in a more sensible direction. >> [inaudible] >> what consideration, if any, is being given to the possibility of implementing a no-fly zone? >> well, a no-fly zone is sometimes advocated, including at international meetings. but i think the greatest difficulty with a no-fly zone is that, of course, it is a response of a totally different nature. it is a military intervention. it is what we have been talking about and many honorable members have been warning against. it would require military force externally on a very substantial scale. now, a good argument of principle can be made for that and of relieving humanitarian suffering by doing whatever is necessary. but the willingness of nations around the world to implement such a military intervention is limited for understandable reasons and, indeed, such a no-fly zone, i think, could only in practice be done with the full participation of the united states of america. and so there are major practical difficulties in doing it. what we must not get into is saying that there are protected areas, that there are manitarian corridors and then not being able to protect people. there is a sad and tragic history of those things, and so we should only take the step the honorable lady is talking about if the world, the international community was truly ready to bring that about. >> [inaudible] >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. my right honorable friend, mr. speaker, is quite right when he says tt syria is being shielded by some countries in the united nations, not least, of course, we know that russia had the opportunity to bring about so sanctions early on in the ited nations security council. could i ask my right honorable friend to start talking to his counterparts in the european union and, indeed, in the united states to actually try and say to the russians if you don't want to take part of this, you get on the ground, you do this. and if the russians refuse to take that course of action, are willing to stand by and let tens of thousands of people to be slaughtererred, then we should work with our european partners and the u.s. and say we're not going to come to your country to showcase your country in the world cup in 2016. 2020, sorry. >> right. my honorable friend, we must put every, use every art of persuasion we know in our talks with our colleagues in russia. and i can assure him that we do that. the shadow foreign secretary argued that we must put the case to russia about the growth of extremism in syria and so on. and we do. i have lost count of the number of occasions that i and other western ministers have put the case to our russian counterparts that everything russia most fears in syria is more likely to come true the longer the conflict goes on, including the rise of international terrorism and instability in the whole region. they, clearly, have a different analysis. we hav't had any meeting of minds on that. i'm not a great fan of sporting sanctions, i have to say, and as a country that just hosted to olympics, we have aood, well-established position on that, but we will use every other art of persuasion in dealing with russia. >> mr. nigel dobbs. >> the assad regime is clearly barbarous -- [inaudible] but does the foreign secretary understand the concerns of many of our constituents who read issues about atrocities and war crimes of the rule of al-qaeda and who express concerns about support and help that will be going for good and pror reasons that have been set out in good faith and helping people who are deeply hostile to stern interests and also equally glty of some terrible crimes against humanity? >> yes, of course. people are right to be concerned about any atrocities or any opportunity for international terrorism of to take hold in a new place. now, that's one of the reasons why we with cannot just turn away from this crisis. but it's also why, and this is another of his questions, the assistance we give must be very refully thought out and monitored. and, of course, the all the assistance i have talk about, all the equipment i've talked about is nonlethal. we monitor to the best of our ability its use, and if it was misused or fell into the hands of groups we did not intend it for, that would have a serious impact on our willingness to provide such further assistance in the future. but i do want to stress that while people, of course, read about and we are concerned about in the way i've described the opportunity for extreme u.s.es to take -- extremists to take hold, the great majority of the people who are involved even in the fighting in syria from what we can see and tell and certainly the opposition leaders that i meet are people who sincerely want a future for their country that has nothing to do with extremism and or or record im. and we must not -- and terrorism. and we must not leave those people feeling abandoned by the world. >> dr. julian lewis. >> unfortunately, the record of moderates in standing up against extremists in such situations isn't all that great. does the foreign secretary accept that our sworn enemies, al-qaeda, are fighting on the side of the opposition and that, therefore, our concern is that if and when the appalling assad regime is overthrown as the government bushes, its chemical -- wishes, its chemical weapons stocks will fall into al-qaeda's hands? what practical guarantee can the government give us that that will not happen? i asked this question on monday, it wasn't satisfactorily answered, that's why i'm asking it again. >> well, no one, mr. speaker, can give any guarantee. this is why a political transition is needed in syria. this is why what should happen is an orderly transition. because there are, certainly, there are in syria terrible weapons, chemical and biological weapons. and that's why i think it's important to be clear that there is no military-only solution, whatever one's point of view to the situation in syria. and so those chemical weapons are best safeguarded in a peaceful transition. that's why we have to keep up the argument. but without giving additional assistance to the moderate elements of the opposition, if we were not to do that, we would be reducing rather than enhancing the prospects for such an orderly transition. >> mr. mike gates. >> thank you, mr. speaker. isn't the reality that it would be more secure and more inour enters to have a no-fly zone than to arm the opposition? cause we can keep control of the equipment in a no-fly zone, and we can't if we hand it over to jihadist groups? but isn't it also the reality that the united states administration and some neighboring countries including turkey are against a no-fly zone and, therefore, we're not able to do it? >> well, to have a no-fly zone -- by the way, just to be clear, i've not announced arming the opposition, so this is something different. this is increasing the level of assistance w give to the op suggestion, and it was non-- opposition, and it was nonlethal equipment. but he is putting the case for an external military intervention rather than moving to any policy in the future of lethal equipment, supportin heath call equipment going into syria. there is a respectable case for that. but i made the point to his honorable friend earlier that to do that there would have to be the willingness on part of a large part of the international community, almost certainly including the united states, to do that. there would have to be that willingness so that we were not making a false promise to people of safety. syria is a country that continues to have strong air defenses with very modern equipment, and the implementation of a noly zone would be a very large military undertaking. and so it's important that those who advocate, and bear that many many -- bear that in mind. >> sir general powell. >> however distressing the picture we see on our television, and it is indeed diss stressing, i'm extremely concerned that the united kingdom's hand is being drawn ever closer into this mangle, and i share all the concerns and say what confidence does the foreign secretary have in his belief that these what he calls, i think, the moderate and democratic forces can be assisted and will, therefore, be in charge of a postconflict sya? because if he's not confident, then what we will be faced with is more bloody jihadists. and i hope my honorable friend will completely rule out the use of britain's armed forces who are already greatly overstretche >> well, what i'm confident about, i fully understand my honorable friend's concern, and is that giving support, giving the active support of the kind that i've described to that moderate and democratic opposition is the best with way to help insure that this they are the ones who are successful. their chances of success will be less in standing up to extremists, our honorable friend rightly pointed out that very often the moderate forces who lose out to eremists in these situations, their chances will be less the longer this goes on and theless support theyeceive from outside. so we have to make a choice about when we are prepared to give that support. and i think it's the right choice for the united kingdom to increase the level of support to people who we would be prepared to see succeed. >> mr. jeremy corbin. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the situation in syria is, obviously, appalling, and the humanitarian crisis is absolutely devastating. but at the end of every war, it requires a political solution of some sort. could he tell us what serious negotiations are upside taken with saudi arabia and qatar who are fundamentally the funders of the opposition forces in syria and what serious engagement is being with the goth of iran particularly on bringing about some kind of comprehensive peace negotiation d peace process? because without that there will be more suffering, more deaths and more difficulties for everybody. >> well, the honorable gentleman makes a fair point in that regional powers were able to agree among themselves about the situation and about a solution, that would be an enormous step forward. just as if the fife permanent members of the u.n. security could council were able to agree, it would be a vital step forward. there have been such attempts. and, in fact, through last autumn the egyptian government convened a group of egypt and saudi arabia and iran and turkey to consider the situation together and see if they could come to an agreed way forward. i have to tell him that that group did not come to an agreed way forward. that's not to say such a group can't be revised in the future. we have absolutely no problem with such a group ing assembled. it can be revived. but it didn't succeed, and it didn't succeed pause iran has not -- because iran has not been prepared to come to an agreed way forward with other countries in the region. it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried again. >> bob stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. in this civil war, foreign secretary, it seems there is a military stalemate between two sides who have military forces. under those circumstances and considering each side claims that it wants to negotiate, is there any chance that we canut all our efforts into getting a ceasefire arranged so that in that ceasefire when the guns stop and civilians stop being killed, we might actually be able to use politics to solve the situation? >> here, here. >> in this, again, is a very good thought although, again, we have -- it has been tried. it should be tried again. of course, in any negotiated way forward a ceasefire would be a very impornt element of the early part of such negotiations. my honorable friend may recall that last summer the u.n. envoy pa himmy -- brahimi proposed a ceasefire, and there was some hope for a short time that it would be implemented. there were many efforts to implement it in parts of of syria. but it broke down after a very short time, within days the ceasefire had completely broken down. and, again, that doesn't mean that shouldn't be top of the agen of negotiations. but as my honorable friend can gather, we don't have successful negotiations for the moment, much as though we will discuss that with mr. brahimi this often. >> ms. stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. could the foreign secretary tell us the discsions he's had with turkey and what turkey's attitude is towards easing the arms eargo. >> turkey isery supportive of the change that the european union has made in the arms embargo, and indeed, turkey has a forward-leaning approach, let's just say, to this crisis. and and the turkey foreign minister was here, he would not only say what i have said, but a great deal more about the need for international support to the coalition. i'll be meeting him again tomorrow here in london when he co toss the friends of yemen meeting. but turkey's certainly very, or very sportive of this announcement and of the change to e. policy. >> mr. bernard jenkin. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i welcome my friend's rht honorable statement. i note that he does not rule out any option, and in specific answer to my honorable friend's question, he does not rule out military intervention. while no country is yet advocating that, if syria is meant to be part of a primary interest in our national security strategy, are we quipped to deal with this crisis, and to what extent should he be talking to his opposite member, my right honorable friend the defense secretary, about what contingencies should be laid and, indeed, what additional expenditure is required in order to give us the capacity to at least influence the security situation around problem? >> well, of course, the defense secretary and i discussed the whole range of international affairs on an almost continuous basis, and we make the decision about our policy on syria in the national security council or in the cabinets. we discussed in this yesterday at the cabinet, and the defense secretary and i are very much o the same mind and work closely together on all contingencies. the minister of defense has planned for, as my honorable friend knows, for a great range of contingencies. it's not helpful the to speculate, for ministers to speculate about those contingencies, and i stress as i've made clear earlier that we're not calling for, nor are we planning a military intervention. the discussion in the interor tional community is ability the -- is abouthe degree of support rather tan an external intervention. so we will plan for our contingencies, but that is the context and the background to any military role in this crisis. >> ms. louise helmand. >> thank you, mr. speaker. what does the foreign secreta think is the likelihood of emical weapons being used in sur ya or for -- in syria, or for those weapons to be moved to hezbollah in lebanon, destabilizing the wider region? >> we are, as i said in my summit, increasingly concerned about the regime's possible use, possible willingness to use chemical weapons. and we're always concerned, as are many other countries in the region, about the transfer, any transfer of those weapons to other groups or to other countries in the region. and we send the strong message that i gave if my statement -- in my statement. the president of the united states himself has given a similar strong message aut the use of chemical weapons by anybody and including the syrian regime. i think it's very important for them to hear that message or the world will be determined that the indivuals responsible are held to account if chemical weapons are used. >> mr. martin woolward. >> i strongly support the foreign secretary's stand on this very difficult issue, and will he tell mr. bog canoff this afternoon that with a million fled and as many as 100,000 dead, it stands in comparison with the rwandan genocide which led the international community with responsibility to protect doctrine in the first place and that russia should engage with the forcesr face the prospect of a jihadist regime which neither we, nor they would want? >> basically i will tell him that, yes. absolutely. this is part of the argument, and as i said earlier, russia is concerned, rightly concerned about international terrorism. russians have experience with that themselves. but the, if this situation goes on for many more months or years, well, then we are going to see auch greater opening for such international terrorism. and it is, indeed, it is becoming a human catastrophe of immense proportions. so my honorable friend can be confident that i will make this argument in the robust terms he would want me to to my russian counterpart. >> [inaudible] >> mr. speaker, can i thank the right honorable gentleman for advanced copy of the statement? i do welcome the emphas in his statement on humanitarian aid. i'm sure we'd all agree that it's time now for all nations to focus on a nonviolent resolution if at all possible. clearly, that's obvious. but yesterday israel said, threatened the security council as the right honorable gentleman knows that it cannot stand idle, as it puts it, if the syrian civil war spills over onto its border. now, it's a very serious position, and i'm sure the right honorable gentleman's aware of that, and we need to be doing everything we can to provide further confirmation, i think. >> absolutely. the honorable member is absolutely quite right. the danger of, that the spread regionally, the sead into other countries in different ys of this crisis is one of the reasons we cannot just watch it develop. we have work out the best constructive approach, difficult though these choices are. to trying to push this crisis in the right direction at that dirr than drift in the wrong direct. and, indeed, any of the neighboring countries will take actionf their borders are infringed, of course. we have agreed to the stawtioning of patriot missiles by nato in turkey. lebanon has been very concerned about clashes on its border. the jordanian and iraqi border is a tense place, and basketball that is even before we consider the golan heights and the iraqi border as well. so the regional dimension to this is of increasingand serious concern, and that's one of the reasons for this package of policy changes and announcements that aye -- i've given today. >>r. edward lee. >> may i strongly reject the neo-con policies and ideas emanating from are our right honorable friend from kensington? what could be gained by our selling arms in this cauldron? have we forgotten the disastrous policy of arming the rebels in afghanistan? have we forgotten the atrocities being committed against christians in syria? what's wrong with basing our policy on life, not death? >> i've never considered myself a neo-con and don't use that, don't describe myself as that foreign secretary. our policy must be very carefully calibrated, and my honorable friend draws attention to situations where, which have go seriously wrong from the point of view of the international community. we've also, though, got to bear in mind if we look athe western fallinglands in the 1990s, the isolatn of muslims in many parts of the world are a policy which for too long denied people any ability in a extreme situation to protect themselves. and so i think our policy, the policy that i have announced of doing what we can to protect civilian life is a necessary and proportionate response. >> mr. jeffrey robinson. >> m speaker, the foreign secretary's well aware there's no shortage of lethal weapons in syria at all. there's ry little case for us supplying it and, indeed, putting it quite frankly, supplying four wheel drive vehicles as well as body armor to the opposition isn't necessarily driving around in this total personal immunity isn't best characterized -- [inaudible] credit for our policy or the civilians who continue to live amidst appalling suffering and danger. will you carry the whole house -- [inaudible] is a massive increase in our human tear assistance, and if you could find european partners into doing that, that's where his efforts ought to be directed. >> well, the right honorable gentleman can be pleased in that case because we have announced enormous increases in our humanitarian assistance. my right honorable frienwho was here earlier announced when she attended the kuwait conference at the end of january a vast increase, a 50 million pound increase taking it to 140 million pounds. we're one of the biggest donors in the world to try to alleviate humanitarian suffering. i think he should be wn he quotes the list of what i say we will be sending, i hope he will quote the full list about medical supplies, about water purification, measures that will help prevent the spread of disease so that the need to alleviate humanitarian suffering is ts right at the top of our minds, and it is the, it is what britain is devoting by far the greatest resources to in all the effort we're putting into this crisis. >> mr. chrispin -- blunt. >> following any statement he was absolutely right to dr attention to the jihadists committing atrocities using explosive devices including car bombs. i have a british-syrian constituent who is on the verge of defying british citizenship. he has immediate family who have been killed by such a car bomb. she now wants to bring her parents to the u.k. simply to take up some respite from what is happening there. they're faced with an incredibly difficult journey in order to simply make the application to come here which now seems extremely difficult, um, en if they're able to succeed, even if they got here. if the circumstances are as i have tribed, um -- described, um, would he make clear that in those is circumstances an application for the parents to come here is the kind of thing that would merit his support? >> um, wl, as my honorable friend knows, he's described the case very well, but such decisions are for the home secretary. and i can'tsay within all circumstances weill be opening doors for pele to come to the united kingdom. there are, there's now a million refugees in other countries, as i said, but it is the responsibility of those countries that receive the refugees to lookafter them with international support, and i pay tribute to the generosity of the people of lebanon and turkey and jordan and iraq and what they're doing. and we're doing our best to assist with that. so i think that is the prime way for refugees to be assisted. but his question is a reminder that there are not only four million out of the population of 21 million who are displaced or are in desperate need, many of the remaining people are in extremely dangerous and stressful conditions and unable to pursue normal life in any way. so it is, it is affecting the great jority of the whole country. >> hugh bailey. >> the difference between factions in the opposition only makes the extremts stronger than they otherwise would be. but it also makes the process of staging negotiations extremely difficult, and the ability to determine who will be a government to syria when the regime falls absolutely impossible. so what is our government doing and allies doing to get greater coherence and common purpose within the moderate opposition? >> secretary. >> there is much greater coherence, mr. speaker, than for a long time. 's not surprising that it's difficult in these circumstances, of course, to bring together something like the national coalition. but it is, it is very much t best attempt that can reasonably be made to bring together those moderate and democratic forces. and it is there now to be negotiated with. quite often over the last two years it has been the refrain of some of the other countries on the security council or of the regime, well, we want to negotiate, but we don't have someone to negotiate with. now they do not have that excuse. the national coalition is there for them to negotiate with, and it is willing to negotiate. so the onus is now on the regime to show that it can seriously negotiate. >> mr. john barron. >> mr. speaker, i urge caution. human rights have said by arming the rebels we could be arming the terrorists of the future as well as escalating the violence. but would i bring the foreign secretary back to his comments over the weekend which did clearly indicate a change in thinking when it came to nonlethal support. to what extent were his comments a reflection of the fact we now get reports that president obama is thinking about changing his policy on this issue? >> i'm not aware of any inconsistency in what i've said. in fact, throughout i've said we don't rule out any options. i've said that for two years. and it would be a strange thing, indeed, as the situation got worse to start ruling out options when we've not done that at any period. so that's what i said today, and that's what i said at the weekend. but what we're actually proposing to do is what i've set out today,nd my honorable friend will know from the announcement that secretary kerry made that it is closely related to what the united states has announced, they have announced $60 million of additional practical support but nonheath call support -- lethal support to the coalition, and i have announced $20 million to use a comparative figure that the united kingdom will provide. so our policy is cloly aligned with the united states, but neither country is advocated the policies which my right honorable friend is so strongly opposed. >> roy. >> would the syrian rebels use armored vehicles during battle, wouldn't that be seen as the united kingdom giving lethal assistance? >> such vehicles are nonleth quilt. that's how they are defined -- equipment, that's how they are defined. that applies as well to body armor. but the -- [inaudible] could advocate a different policy of not trying t save lives in syria. that is what he is suggesting in his question, that we say, no, we will not try to save lives, we will not send people who desperately ask for this kind of assistance even though they are slaughtered in huge numbers. well, that is his choice to advocate that policy, but i don't think that is either responsible or would give moral authority to our policy. >> newton. >> thank you. i'm very concerd for my constituents whose syrian christian family living in aleppo are being persecuted for their faith and their friends mudderred by the jihad u.s.es the secretary of state has mentioned. so what sort of assurance can be given to us that any british support is not helping rebels who are also islamic fundamentalists? >> um, this is a very important point, and it's important to stress as i did earlier to other questions that our purport is to the moderate and democratic forces in syria. and it's one of the reasons, of course, all our support i've set out is also nonlethal. but it also is important for us to monobest we can that -- monitor best we can the use of that equipment. if we thought that equipment was at any stage being used by people we had not intended it for, then our attitude would, of course, have to change dramatically. >> mr. paul flynn. >> the house is deeply united on the humanitarian aid. wee deeply divided on the oversimplified view of the foreign secretary who on this complex civil war he couldn't bring himself to mention the front who a jihadist group and a vital part of the opposition who have been accused of some of the mostlood thirsty massacre of civilians, can he give an absolute guarantee that before we commit mlitary equipment or personnel to syria there'll be a debate and a vote in this house to avoid us repeating what we've done so often in trying to punch our way, we dive beyond our responsibilities somewhere well, the honorable member, i'm sure, has been listening carefully and will know i've not advocated sending military equipment or personnel. and, of course, we have our conventions of which he and i are strong supporters in this house that when we take decisions in the house, and we will observe all of those conventions. but he will also have to defer with his long concern for humanitarian issues whether it would be right to be completely static in the face of this situation, and that is the alternative to what i have described. everybody, everybody is concerned, rightly, across the house about the humanitarian situation. but i don't believe it is responsible for policy to sit still in the face of a rapidly worsening situation. >> mr. james morris. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the foreign secretary or mentioned the increasing evidence of the involvement of the iranian regime in the arming of the assad regime. would he agree with me that there mit be opportunities to put pressure on theiranian regime to desist in the context of the ongoing negotiations around the nuclear, the iranian nuclear program? >> well, i'm not sure the negotiations provide that opportunity to put that pressure. those negotiations are very focused on the nuclear program, and i reported to the house yesterday during foreign office questions the progress, but it's very early stage that was made in those negotiations that was made inial matty last week. i hi the pressure should differd the a different pressure, and that is that the world knows about these activities, that in the end in the syria it will be proved that the assad regime is doomed and that there'll be many people in syria who will not want to forgive iran for intervening with, in all the ways that i've described, including with armed personnel in what is happening in syria. >> jenny chapman >> thank you, mr. speaker. how concerned is the foreign secretary at the u.n. high commissioner's comments this morning on refugees that they had underestimated severely the number of refugees that would be leaving syria, and they have barely 25% of the resources that they needed to deal with the now million people leaving the country? what is he doing with colleagues to make sure the lack of preparedness isn't allowed to continue? .. >> novel countries are, one have billions will pledge. now have to make sure that other countries deliver on those promises. and so of course we are raising that, many bilateral meetings with other nations involved in this over the next 36 hours. we are raising that with each of those countries but we all know how to deliver on the pledges we have made. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the sector as they will know the united states was one of the last leading countries to recognize the syrian opposition. is there now and agree to join policy by united kingm and the u.s.a.? is their joint policies? >> there is a joint policy to my honorable friend will notice that what secrety kerry announced last week, very close to what i am announcing this week. discuss it with them on several occasions last week in london. we have a very similar view of both of the grvity of the crisis and the need for increased action of the kind that i have been asked today in order to try to speed and resolution of the crisis. so he can be assured that london and washington are very closely online on it. >> john cryer. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i've heard many statements like this in years gone by, and most of the time would end up being involved in a quagmire from which we cannot extricate ourselves. i take it youthat now we can't have a full debate in government with the possibili of a boat. >> i think it's important for the honorable member to distinguish situations where we, britain, may be involved in a quagmire where we are helping other people to try to get out of a quagmire. and that is what we're trying to do with this sort of assistae. we cannot turn aside requests for assistance, but, of course, in getting, i think this is the eighth statement i've given about syria, i'm always willing to comto the house and debate it. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. the foreign secretary but impact on the wider region. could become i on jordan, a key strategic ally with very limited resources that is facing a huge influx of refugees from syria? >> i pay tribute to the people and the government of jordan. i visited last summer the refugee reception areas, just inside the jordanian border. since then, the numbers involved have got much larger. there are over 312,000 refugees in jordan, most of them residing with host communities and milies, but some are in camps. the jordanians have done a magnificent job. we discuss regular with them how we can help further. we're meeting with foreign minister of jordan tomorrow, and we will be discussing this further than. >> dr. phil fully. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the late father of the current president of syria, a very ruthless and murders individual did have the reputation of doing what he said he was going to do. by contrast his son is a fundamentally weak individual surrounded by stronger -- to what extent does defence secrary agree with me that the personal weakness the president of syria will make a diplomatic solution if not impossible very unlikely? >> my honorable friend is right that this is one of the -- describing an obstacle. there are of course, not only the president of city but other members of his family close involved, including his brother in the power structure in syria. and, of course, an entire system of finance and power and reward, an entire premed which president assad is simply the op. so a solution to this, a political diplomatic solution requires people much further down that david to agree that it is a good idea. that makes a very complex. that is one of the reasons of the negotiations by the regime are not actually followedup by serious negotiations. so it is indeed one of the obstacles. >> [inaudible] very bleak picture of a dangerous civil war with a toxic mix of iranian involvement, possibly al qae, and other extremists. even that, what assessments have the british government made of the alleged involvement of hezbollah and the conflict in syria? and for the otential for regional instability that would flow from that? >> there is some, there's potential that we have discussed for regional, including in lebanoncome and including in relations to hezbollah. and one of the dangers is of clashes on the lebanese border, the south of lebanon bween hezbollah and the free syrian army o other elemen of the syrian opposition. and let a lone syrian regime forces as well. so that is one of the dangers. i don't have any other evidence i can quote about hezbollah, but that in itself is a great danger. and is one of the reasons we are assisting with t stability of lebanon. in lebanon two weeks ago i announced additional british funding for the lebanese armed forces, who are a very important part of trying to keep that border peaceful, including our direct help of a construction of border observation post. and, of course, everything else that we e doing to try to bring about a resolution. >> my right honorable fend has always been clear that we've tried to stop the killing and find a peaceful solution. it a peaceful solution can be fined, if assad stays in power, would reveal to accept the to or have we reached a stage where a precursor to the 20 deal, assad moscow? >> it's not for us to decide he was in power fm any other country, including in syria. it is of course the position of the syrian national coalition, of all opposition groups that they want the departure of president assad. but we will not be more like the syrian opposition than the syrian opposion. he has said he is willing to negotiate. that is appreciation we should support. but it is impossible to see, for any observer of these events, to see president assad ever again being able to unify our govern his country. we say he should go, but the opposition has offered to negotiate. that is a right. >> it is clear that the house shares the humanitarian urgency that the foreign secretary has taken in so well, but many also are concerned that that urgency should not entail -- a real agenda of some of the opposition forces. cannot acknowledge particular principles that have been expressed by the foreign secretary today? our reign policy is inseparable from upholding human rights, protecting and it supporting international law? we must assist a democratic forces here in dire need of help that a been abandoned by the international community. we cannot look the other way with international law and human rights. when will we see those principles manifest and the governments engagement and other situations? >> well, they are. that may take us wider than the subject, absolutely wider than the subject. i welcome in china what the honorable member says. and, of course, this is the object of our policy more broadly in foreign policy. we are heavily engaged in conflict prevention, conflict resolution in somalia, in yemen, in sudan, and in a work that we do now to promote an arms trade treaty, to pursue my own initiative on preventing sexual violence and conflict. united kingdom, the united kingdom, continued has a strong ecord in conflict prevention >> more from london with british prime minister's questions. bonuses for bankers and government's welfare policies and housing benefits. this is 35 minutes, from earlier today. >> in addition to my duties in this house, i should have further such meetings today. >> over 2.5 million households are affected. [inaudible] >> that is absolutely clear. this is not a tax. let me explain. a tax is when you earn some money. the government takes some of that money away from you. that is a tax. let me be clear. pensioners are exempt, people with severely disabled children are exempt and people who need round the clock care are exempt. there's a basic issue of fairness. how can it be fair that people on housing benefits in private rented accommodations do not get a fair room subsidy where people in socializing do, that isn't fair and we are putting that right. >> thank you, mr. speaker. over the last 20 years, there is a 137% increase in deaths linked to alzheimer's disease. if we are going to stop this disease, we need to invest much more in preventing this disease and research in particular. will you outline to the house what the government is doing to help? >> my honorable friend raises concern to everyone, no one knows when you can get afflicted. this is a disease and we should be thinking about it as a disease in the way we try to research cancer, heart disease and strokes and we are increasing money to prevent alzheimer's but there are many thing we need to do to improve the care in hospitals and make sure we have more friendly communities so we all learn how to deal with people who have alzheimer's and have productive lives as possible. >> mr. speaker, i would like to ask the prime minister about an individual case that has been raised with me. there is a worry from one about his living standards. his salary is one million pounds and worried under the proposed e.u. regulations, his bonus may be capped at two million pounds. can the prime minister tell us what he's going to do for john? >> what i would say to john and everyone like john is under this government, bonuses are one quarter of what they were earlier. i will take lots of lectures from lots of people, but i don't have to listen to it in the casino when it went bust. >> mr. speaker, i know the prime minister doesn't want to deal with the facts but he toured europe yesterday in order to argue against the bonus tax. now, he says presumably because he thinks it will be bad for london, but who led the negotiations, mr. speaker, on the bonus tax? it was a conservative member of the european parliament. and what did she say, we have managed to produce a deal that will strike the right balance for the majority of bankers to take responsible decisions. why the prime minister and the chancellor the only people who think it's a priority to fight the bigger bonuses for bankers. >> he is completely wrong. we have some of the toughest rules on bonuses and toughest rules on transparency than any major financial center. and when they were in charge where was the transparency? there was none. where were the rules? there were none. there is an important issue here. there are some important british national interests. we are responsible for 40% of the e.u.'s financial services. those industries are here in our country and we ought to make sure they go on in contributing. we want to make sure that international banks go on being head quartered here in the u.k. we think that matters. he might want to pose and play politics, but we care about these things. we also want to make sure that we can put in place the very top ring fence around our retail banks so the complete shambles he presided over can never happen again. >> this is the man who in opposition said there will be a day of reckoning for the bankers and now he sends his chancellor to fight against the bonus tax. what is he arguing? that there should be more regulations of the banks. oh, let's see. what did he say? david cameron a conservative economic strategy, march, 2008, i have it here. as a free marketeer by conviction, it wouldn't surprise you to hear me say the problem of the last decade has been too much regulation. so there we have it, mr. speaker. but let me say, i think john the banker, will take heart that the prime minister is straining every muscle to help him. now let me ask him about a case of the hundreds of thousands of disabled people who live the average of 700 pounds a year. is he going to fight for them like he is fighting for john the banker? let us just remember what happened in 2008 when he was in government, the biggest banking bust in our history, the buildup of the biggest deficit. all the mess we are having to deal with now was delivered by him and his henchmen in 2008. let him speak and apologize for the mess he left this country. apologize. >> mr. speaker. , mr. speaker >> there are people that don't like the proceedings runs out. it doesn't matter to me, the more noise, the more disruption, the longer it takes, it's very simple. >> i do notice the prime minister has a new tactic, which is to ask me questions in our exchanges. all i can say, it's good to see him preparing for opposition, mr. speaker. and the secretary shakes her head and i look forward to facing her when they are in the opposition. he didn't answer the question about the bedroom tax. he talked about the hardship fund. let's look at the facts. there is 25 million pounds allocated to help disabled people to help them in the bedroom tax, but how much do his own figures show he is taking from disabled people, 306 million pounds. will he admit that the vast majority of disabled people who are hit by his bedroom tax will get no help from his hardship fund? >> i will make no apology for the mess left by your party. on on the subsidy, his figures are completely wrong. the last thing he just said before he sat down is we are cutting the money going to disabled people. that is simply not the case. in 2009-2010, the money spent was $12.4 billion and 2014, there is no cut in the money going to the disabled. this government is protecting that money in spite of the mess he made. on the subsidy, pensioners are exempt, people with disabled children are exempt, anyone who needs help around the clock is also exempt and he is reading letters from his constituents, let me read out one i got on this issue from a petitioners, we are expected to find extra money. they are exempt but they are terrified by his complete irresponsible comments. >> i think all that means is that there was nothing in the briefing on the question i asked. let me just make it clear because he obviously doesn't understand it. his own impact assessment, which he might read, that there are 420,000 disabled people hit by the bedroom tax, an average of 700 pounds a year. that's 306 million pounds. the money in the hardship fund allocated to disabled people is just 25 million pounds. will he admit the basic math, will he admit the vast majority of disabled people will get no help by the hardship fund and get hit by the bedroom tax. >> anyone with disabled children is exempt. >> order! order! members mustn't shout. the question has been asked and it was heard and the answer must be heard. the prime minister. >> completely ignores the fact that anyone with severely disabled children is exempt and anyone who needs around the clock help is exempt. the point he has to address is this, we are spending 23 billion pounds on housing benefits, that is 50% over the last decade. 1,000 pounds every year for every basic rate taxpayer. we say it's time to reform housing benefits and only fair that you treat people in social housing the same way as in private renting housing. he has no proposals but just to up borrowing. >> we established today the prime minister doesn't understand his own policies. it is shameful to be doing this and not even trying to understand the impact of it on the people of this country. he pulled all the stops to defend the bankers and his bonuses but nothing to say for the disabled people. he stands up for the wrong people. no wonder that his back benches in the country think he is totally out of touch. >> what we have heard today is what we hear every single wednesday, they will not support one single change to welfare. they won't support reforms to housing benefits and didn't support when we took housing benefits away from people. they wouldn't support changes to child benefits or any changes to d.l.a. or any support changes to tax benefits. they have opposed 83 billion pounds of welfare savings and that is the point. they have to admit that their policy is to put up borrowing. they have debt, debt and more debt. >> thank you, mr. speaker. forgive me. on the 8 of march, we celebrate international women's day. would the prime minister join me in calling upon the indian and pakistani governments to do more to uphold the rights of women and advance the gender agenda? >> i think my honorable friend is right to raise this and there are some particular issues we should really focus on a that is female genital mutilation. and we will be making an announcement about that. but we should do more to crack down on the unacceptable practice of forced marriages. there are still forced marriages taking place right here with people involved in the united kingdom and we need to do more to put a stop to it. >> i have been asked by the good people to open a food bank and i'm proud of these people who are pulling together as a community. but i carry shame that this government is driving people more and more, working people -- and i see people waving this away. is it a question of morality? the government must look after the poor as well as the rich. >> welcome people that are making this contribution in our country as the last labour government did in giving the organization that founded food banks a prize and an award for their work. i point out to them the use of food banks went up 10 times under labour. but one thing labour refused to do which we have done which is to allow job centers to point people towards food banks if they need them. the last labour government was worried about the adverse publicity and put that worry before the needs of people up and down the country. >> mr. speaker, does the prime minister agree we cannot borrow less by borrowing more? we cannot deal with the deficit left by the last labour government and that the plans to do so is morally and financially bankrupt? >> the policy of the official opposition is borrow less by borrowing more. and that is why the leader of the opposition comes here week after week and asks about all sorts of questions that he will never mention his borrowing policy. extraordinary point. the leader of the opposition as a policy, he is so embarrassed about, he can't tell the house of commons. >> david nicholson showed culpable ignorance while a thousand of people died needlessly. how can the public have confidence in the organization? well the prime minimums the ter do anything? >> he has very frankly and very candidly apologized and acknowledged the mistakes that were made and it is an important point because everyone has to think of their responsibilities with regard to the dreadful events that happened at the hospital, including the fact that part of the problem was people following a very top-down target-led agenda which led to patient care on the back burner. david wants to get on his job of running a national health service and other people should be thinking of their positions, too. >> would you agree with me that even governing parties can win marching marginal elections if they campaign hard in a fair society? >> i will certainly welcome the new member of parliament for the period of this parliament. i'm sure that he will enjoy making contribution to our debate. >> the prime minister told me that he would not be forcing commissioners to put health services -- [inaudible] >> doctors and nurses as well as 250,000 members of the public said they didn't believe him. was yesterday's withdrawal of the competition -- [inaudible] >> with respect to the honorable lady, there is an attempt to create a false argument. the aim is to ensure that the rules for procurement and diversity in the n.h.s. fully respects the position that was put in place by the last government that has been repeated in this government and what we are doing is putting out beyond any doubt. what i would say to you, what are we to be frightened of by making sure in our brilliant n.h.s. you can get a full contribution from private sector companies, from voluntary and charitable bodies, too. that is actually the manifesto she stood on in the last election. i remind her, we will support -- >> the independent sector, working alongside the n.h.s. particularly where they bring innovation. what happens is when the labour party goes into opposition, they become a wholly-owned zear of the trade movement. >> there is a recommendation of the closure of acute and most emergency and maternity services at stafford. when my friend meets with me to discuss the serious impact it would have on services including the two signal regimens we welcome in 2015. >> i'm very happy to speak with him. the trust continues to face serious financial challenges and his work to improve services for patients and as required by the legislation, they will be consulting with the health secretary as well as others before making the final decision to go ahead. if he wants to discuss it with me or the secretary of health, happy to have that conversation. >> this week, it is reported that one in 10 people in new case will have borrowed money to pay for food. our poorest house holets are going to be asked to find 125 pounds per month to pay for the bedroom tax. so could the prime minister say whether at the same time he personally will be benefiting from the millionaire's tax? >> let me address the issue of the spare room subsidy in new castle specifically, because there are 9,000 people on social housing waiting list. this is important. throughout the country, you have 250,000 people who are living in overcrowded accommodations who would love to have access to a house with more room and 386,000 people who are living in overcrowded housing. the party opposite doesn't want to recognize that reality and have nothing to offer. >> last year, more than 100 women were killed by men in the united kingsdom and we know domestic violence happens across this entire country. will the the prime minister take ways to reduce this appalling crime and provide services who suffer in my constituency? >> i'm happy to do that. fighting domestic violence is an important part of international women's week. i commend the police and the local authorities who have done good work in bringing the agencies together to make sure we have a joint approach of trying to crack this difficult problem which she says has been often hidden from view. >> mr. ronny campbell. >> a recent report suggested that that we are being depressed by 3% -- not you, silly. why is it that bankers spend and speculators can get away -- [inaudible] when is the prime minister going to get a grip on these fat cats? if he isn't going to get a grip, let my friend get a grip. >> when his honorable friends are in charge, the bonuses were in higher and the banks were going bust and wasn't proper regulation. he can try and wave it away but those two were sitting in the casino when the country nearly went bust. >> does the prime minister welcome the action that make sure pay day lenders act responsibly and fairly? >> the fact is, a number of pay day leapeders have been behaving in an irresponsible way. there are 50 firms on notice over their behavior and requiring them to take specific actions, face infines or having their licenses revoked and maybe referring the entire sector to the competition commission. i commend them for what they have done. >> a college has had a cut of 280. that's a 10% cut december pit unemployment. with rising unemployment, why is the prime minister denying young people of education. cutting taxes for millionaires and young people have no future? >> in her region, employment is up by 21,000 this quarter. up by 74,000 since the election. 192,000 people in her region out of tax altogether and unemployment is down since the election. >> mr. speaker, like many others, i welcome last week's speakers showing the annual net migration has fallen by a third. does the prime minister agree with me that the government is ending uncontrolled migration while the party opposition has opesed -- opposed every step we have taken? >> we have taken action right across the board to deal with the completely unacceptable situation that we have inherited under the last government. net migration ran over 200,000 a year, two million a decade, two cities the size of birmingham coming and staying in our country under their completely bankrupt system. we have cut the migration by a third and taking a series of steps none of which they have supported. tonight, we are going to get a faint apology from the leader of the opposition. it is as real as his fake apology for having left us in the mess we are in. >> after the riots, the prime minister offered public safety. under the latest proposals, every police station will close down and fewer police officers and an inadequate number that existed after the riot. is this another broken promise? >> first of all, his figures are wrong. the number of neighborhood police officers in london is up from 8,895 to 3,418. crime is down and he should be welcoming that rather than criticizing it. >> the prime minister says it should form a tax electoral package. how are the talks going? >> i commend my honorable friend and he reveals a little bit further and all right, enough. enough already. what i can say, it was a good, honest and fair fight. what i would be absolutely clear about is the party that is meant to be challenging as the opposition in our country when -- went precisely no where. >> russell brown. >> thank you, mr. speaker. my constituents have demanded that big businesses pay their full taxes. likewise they are asking all individuals to pay their taxes. and you prime minister have cut from 50 feet. can i welcome the fact that he sports this initiative on tax transparency which we are going to make some real progress. what i would say to him the reason for replacing the rate is the 50-b rate wasn't raising proper money. it raised 7 billion pounds less. that is probably why in 10 years in office, the labour party never put it in place and that is why under this government, the 45-b rate will be higher than when the two of them were sitting in the casino. >> the widely benefits may or may not be realized in 20 years' time. the anxiety that this project generates hit on the 20th of january. and concerns over houses and businesses uncertain and potential loss of the private sector investment, can you ensure that representatives visit my constituencies about this project? >> i'm happy to make sure that what my honorable friend asked for happens. i quite understand that when you launch a project like hs-2 concerns ease. we are putting a large national consultation and put in place a very generous compensation scheme. if we are going to win in the global race economically, we have to make sure we invest in new infrastructure, whether it is roads, bypasses, tunnels and highways and high-speed rail. the rest of the world is getting on board and we should, too. >> giving another 150 million pounds to streamline adoption services and taking the exact term out of the care sectors early intervention grants seems to be a classic example giving with one hand and taking away with the other. is the prime minister not acting in a manner mostly associated with his partners? >> it is important we make progress with rates of adoption in our country. far too many children are left far too long in care when there are loving homes they could be adopted into. and i think taking some of that money and encouraging local authorities to raise their game can transform the life chances of other people who will be stuck in care and we know the state is not a good parent. we want to see more children adopted more quickly so they can grow up in a loving home. >> welcome the news that new car sales are up 8% in february. >> very happy to join my honorable friend in that. the fact is that the economy is rebalancing and seeing that in the exports that go to the fastest growing countries in the world. one million more people in private sector jobs and the rate of new business creation is the fastest now than it has ever been in our history. our economy employs more people now than it has ever done in our history. there is still a long difficult road to travel, but the deficit is down by a quarter. we are taking the steps we need to get our economy moving. but we have nothing constructive from the party opposite. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i'm delighted to hear the prime minister says he agrees that the pay day loan industry is irresponsible and should cut the charges. yes or no? >> most people welcome what they are doing, which is putting these companies on notice and it is worth making the point if you don't have an effective regulated sector you see dangers from loan sharks. >> the 45 million people in kenya, one of the fastest emerging markets went to elect a new government under a new constitution. i came back from dr. king who was killed last week. would the prime minister join me in sending our condolences to dr. king and support to the people of kenya? >> i commend my honorable friend for raising this issue and i pay tribute to anthony king and i know you traveled to kenya to speak at his funeral. we want to see proper, free and fair electrics completed, couned and finished in kenya and properly elected government in that country and make sure there are justice when events like this take place. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> i believe that the united states has many fantastic qualities. i do believe that maybe many people have the possibility of pulling themselves up by the boot straps. i think every year that is less and less probable. but the united states especially in its foreign policy, which is what i have worked on for years and years is not the great nation. it's an interventionist state, it is extremely aggressive militarily. we mess with ohm people's politics which i can't imagine americans tolerated. imagine we in-- a country invading us and americans thinking that's ok and somehow we still in this country have a myth that people are thrilled when we invade them. that's insane. i believe 99% of the time