i don t know the identity of the whistle-blower. i just hear it s a partisan person meaning it comes out from another party. but i don t have any idea. but i can say that it was a totally appropriate conversation. it was actually a beautiful conversation. so there s that. multiple reports now that president trump urged the leader of ukraine to investigate joe biden s son while perhaps holding u.s. assistance in the balance during a call between the two leaders apparently overheard the issue apparently at the center of this new whistle-blower complaint that has taken washington by storm. we have two very special guests with us tonight to talk about it. john meacham, pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian. his newest work coauthored with tim mcgraw is songs of america.
work coauthored with tim mcgraw is songs of america. john will be playing on route 2. and we re joined by michael. one of the things john and i love about you is the fact that you can speak to a topic like the history of modern government oversight which is no older than any of the three of us in this conversation. exactly right. you know, especially with intelligence agencies. brian, in the 1950s when the cia was expanding, dwightizen hour was present and not everything they did went right. there was an effort to build a spy tunnel under berlin, for instance. so, eisenhower began bringing in consultants. the other thing he did was he asked leaders of the cia,