Through cognitions, that is, through our thoughts, which are expressed in words, but we can influence emotions and we can correct our own behavior. I understand correctly that you work only with consciousness, yes, naturally, in this case, the psychologist acts more like, well, some kind of guide, yes, or a trainer, if you like, but for the client, and who allows the client to learn, yes, some. Or more Adaptive Strategies of behavior, or a more reasonable way of thinking, yes, because when faced with some kind of stressful situation, a person may begin to think that god, what a horror , i cant cope with this, i dont know what to do, for example, he is afraid to fly, for example, this is your, just typical of your situation, it seems to me, i mean for psychologists who work in prophobia, one of the most typical, and you are simply teaching the client about nothing. Not to think, but simply not to be afraid, at the level of some reflexes, at the level of some reactions, partly yes, rather transforming those anxious thoughts that visit the client while boarding a plane, during the flight, into thoughts more of a healthier, more reasonable nature, and naturally this reduces anxiety if the client has learned to follow these thoughts and if he has learned to concentrate on them, okay . Now let s see what psychological analysts or analytic analysts tell us about this psychologists, and in this case darya represents the jung school, which is still different from , for example, the same school, probably the basic one, the most famous of sigund freud. What are the main positions of your direction, where do you stand . Jungs analytical psychology, here he is. His photograph, and this is a deep psychological approach, yes, a school, a psychotherapeutic model, it takes its origins, in the twentysecond year, jung presented it, and as a model, after his such a protracted, professional crisis on the one hand, on the other hand very productive creative period, where he actually created it. And you mentioned freud, uh, it all started after their breakup in 1914, and he, well, that is, created his own direction, and, at the same time, some things were still based, of course, on the concept of psychoanalysis. And, uh, analytical psychology is a psychodynamic approach, that is, uh, an approach that, uh, looks at the psyche as something that develops dynamically. And, ah, this approach. It will be interesting hidden motives, hidden conflicts, childhood traumas, yes, that too, and in general what happens on deep unconscious level , and this is a model of personality according to jung, but one of the options for depicting him, in fact, the personality is divided, to put it simply, into three parts personal, everything that concerns the personality and his consciousness, yes, it will be here. Its like a mask, yes , actually from latin, translated from latin, this is a mask, this is a kind of construct that protects the image of me, here it seems to me that cbt therapy has no questions, yes, you are with this upper part , where is the egoperson, you work normally, yes, everything that is within consciousness, yes, and partially unconsciously , yes, in fact, this is the conscious personal , then comes the unconscious personal, then , after it there is also the collective unconscious, in fact there are three such parts, and the shadow, this is a construct in the individual, which, you know, is on the border of the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, everything that is under it is the same collective unconscious that jung, well, how to say, discovered and proposed. An experience that is unconscious, it may be very early, it may be that the person does not remembers, this could be a verbal history, that is, before he even began to speak, and it is impossible to remember this, yes, and it is even possible, this could be a trauma that happened in the perinatal period, for example, even during pregnancy, yes , when he was in the womb, yes, yes, when , for example, i dont know, my mother was experiencing some very strong stress, she had experiences in general, well. Yes, on the verge of life and death, her feelings, yes , that is, for her it was like that, or, perhaps, a very traumatic birth, so, well, that is, in in a deep approach, we would look , that is, we would diagnose how a person defends himself, yes, what kind of defense is this, and in psychodynamic approaches there is a system of seven basic defense mechanisms, psychoanalysis is called character, in analytical psychology it is called complexes, this is like a method to protect yourself from unpleasant experiences, in the case of phobias, well, there is always a question about fear, and such basic fear, this is a certain type, and this character complex that we would already be working with, arthur, well, here you are you dont go that deep, and youre not working in a trig. You, well, i dont know how shortterm, cognitive therapy is one of the fastest therapies in terms of implementation, by and large, in many ways now, when we are trying to achieve efficiency in working with a client, we are forced to use synthetic methods, that is, this is some synthesis of different techniques, now synthetic approaches, they, in principle, in my opinion, are on such a wave on the rise, we had an example with flights, yes, with aerophobia, and there was. An example about the fact that a person is somehow doing something wrong thinks about this, well, lets say, in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and it is a method of therapy that works only with the present, that is, and if we are talking about cognitive methods in general, then they address the clients past quite well, but precisely Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, it works according to the classics, it works mainly in the sphere of the present, but still about what. Thoughts and feelings arise now, and lets say, yes, we worked on the issue with flights and it disappeared, but the topic of snakes arose, that is, i was not afraid of snakes, you they worked with me, it means i have aerophobia , i come and say arthur, and now im afraid of snakes, after some time, for example, when the phobia spread from one object to another, and you know why im afraid of snakes, but because for example, i was walking along the path at the dacha and a snake crawled, and if we have such a situation, then it will most likely. Be local and i would not consider it within the framework of something systemic, that is, aerophobia, which spilled over into a phobia of snakes, and if a person probably wasnt afraid before, well, lets say spiders, and now he suddenly began to be afraid of spiders, after his aerophobia went away, of course, and no spider had bitten him in exotic countries, and he didnt spit poison, then we say that okay, this is what something systemic, there is. Some kind of fear that flows, in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy it would rather be no longer a local way of thinking, but some. General concept, about how a person thinks, yes, and about the way he perceives some kind of threat in his life, and i would, for example, deepen and specify topic, asked, okay, are you afraid of snakes, and then what, yes, thats what exactly scares you. This is a psychic podcast, and today with our psychologists we are talking about different methods of psychotherapy. How to solve a specific problem . A simple modern person , all this is used, what arthur says is more or less clear to me, yes, how do you use this knowledge, this system of knowledge to help your client, well, depending on the task, yes, because that the same jung, he said, he said that when a person comes for analysis, you are 3 years old you work as his shadow, and he says, until you process the shadow, there are no archetypes for you in particular, well, that is, only in attention. The therapist is possible, that is, you need to figure it out, integrate, he called it integrating your shadow, that is, your unconscious personal parts, then, for example, you can deepen the client there if he has, well, a request for this, for greater deepening, jung in general, he called it some kind of spiritual work, he proposed this level, but as a certain type. Spiritual search for western man, in fact, that western people lack this, yes , thats why there is such an instinct, he proposed such a model, but he also said that this is not for everyone, that is, the majority are at the shadow level and there are some symbols, of course, we take archetypes in our work , yes, but this is more of an analyst, well, yes, i now understand why, when criticizing analytical directions, opponents say that the evidence base. Its almost impossible to collect, but arthur, well , for me, as a cognitive psychologist, archetype is not a very clear concept, its rather vague, abstract, but the word the word concept itself is understandable to me, and yes, there really is a concept, yes, which has been shown by crosscultural studies to be general, well, for example, the image of a wheel, the concept of a wheel as something round, as a symbol, right . Good, because its very beautiful , very interesting, exciting, were talking about you know, lets move on to life, the theoretical part, but lets try to apply your approaches, of course, and i would like you to show each of you the best, yes , or the most striking of your approaches to a specific situation. The situation is difficult and many will recognize, middleaged people will recognize themselves in this situation, lets discuss it a young man is 40 years old, married, has a good job, and nothing makes him happy, or rather, as he says, it has stopped making him happy for about four years now, he wants to give up everything, he wants to somehow put all this on pause. In the annals, as he describes his situation, there is disappointment in the fact that there are no children, they wanted a child with their wife, all friends have children, he does not have a child, in his request he does not directly connect his lack of joy only with the fact that no child, he rather writes this as one of the circumstances of his life, which is so joyless, and he describes his situation, his feelings as stupid. Im walking in circles and im at a dead end, its annoying that i do the same thing, its annoying that i feel like i have to, that im not confident in myself, and its difficult for me to get close to people, with my wife i often feel guilty, yes, then there are some key words we have, that dead end, i feel guilty, there is no joy in life, as a circumstance, childlessness, request, what do i need . Were talking about that the feeling of guilt will arise from certain cognitions, for example, and there is a zone of responsibility, each of us, yes, has a certain zone of responsibility, when we fail to cope with this responsibility, we feel guilty, accordingly, or and we are talking about that that the guilt is true, or are we talking about the fact that the guilt is false, that is, or imposed, for example, for example, yeah. Yes, then, for example, there was a promotion at work, you seemed to want it, because there was more money, yes, and a good position, you will have your own office, and then you realize that you are not you take out, for example, its already very difficult psychologically to take a step back and you just start to devour yourself with this guilt that you cant cope, uhhuh, uhhuh, then a psychologist can really make this situation crystal clear, uh, give a person options, for example, well, that is, he can remain within the framework of this position, but then it will be some kind of conscious sacrifice, and what will he then sacrifice, if he wants to become one, he will have to work more, yes, for example, that is, he will have to sacrifice some part of his personal life sacrifice in order to stay in this position, or maybe you can lead him to the idea of leaving, for example, as an option, that is , to go back, psychologists rather give different options, this option is possible. Him, as for an individual, despite the fact that the crystallized ones that are characteristic of this will manifest themselves in the actual field, that is, here now, these are still some more stable, more crystallized structures that are personal, but tell me some techniques that you will use, well, just so that we we opened up your kitchen and the captains room a little, most of the technical ones are verbal techniques, that is, its still part of a conversation, for example in cbt. Homework is very often used, what kind of homework could this particular client have . For example, start keeping a diary of your own thoughts, not feelings, just thoughts that arise, well, for example, in the workplace, if we are talking about work, as about this conflict zone, for example, what is there , i dont have time, yes, maybe be, or i dont want to go to the meeting, such thoughts, or what, yes, among these thoughts there will certainly be those thoughts that are key, that. Can unravel this tangle and show what kind of values he has, well, for example, how tired i am, but i cant give up, it seems im with it i cant cope, but if i retreat, okay, he wrote these thoughts, then what . Then we use these thoughts as, well , some field for searching for problems, for concretizing these problems, and we will solve the problems themselves in a dialogue within the session. Well, for example, reformulate it as beliefs, if we we find well, his thoughts, i dont have time again, what is your task to reformulate this thought . If this thought, i dont have time, then in itself it is not very destructive, a cognitive psychologist would rather dig into more, for example, for more generalizing ones, then we will say, but on the basis of what . This belief arose , for example, on the basis of the fact that i stopped keeping up, then this is a clear violation of logic, yes, this is not some kind of dysfunctional belief, i stopped keeping up and im a loser, but such an overgeneralization occurs, you you need to uncouple this link, firstly, break this link, any person can not have time, the fact that he did not have time at work does not automatically make him a failure. The same losers can succeed , but not cease to be losers, vekdote , and today i am proud of this, for example, but our task is to make his life comfortable, so that he comes to some conclusion for himself, for example, even decides that the work is not worth it, and it is worth moving to a lower position in order to maintain your own comfort wellbeing, this can also be the case, and this can also be the meaning of life, but to live not driven, in comfort, for example, because if he is not driven, is in comfort, then he comes home, not driven, but alive, and he can more love. More comfort , more warm, pleasant feelings to give to your loved ones, and this is also very important, all this is here now, and of course, we work within current experiences, quite short terms, and quite short terms, daria, yeah, our client, let me remind you, yeah, yeah, hes experiencing it feeling of guilt, looking for the meaning of life, not finding it, not finding it, running in circles. Drives himself even more into such an unpleasant state, realizing that he is running in circles, burdened by the absence of a child, uhhuh, well, this is the ideal client of a jungian analyst or analytical psychologist, but ill explain why, he is 40 years old, this is a midlife crisis, yumg, besides among other things, one of his famous ideas was that he divided life into two halves, the first half of life and the second half of life, and to put it simply, he said well to translate this into simple language, then the first half of life is for getting confused, the second half of life is for getting unraveled, thats right, and a person actually stands between, exactly, you know, on the border, that is, the first thing you we say, expensive is normal, yes exactly, thats a plus this is, of course , a personal, deep psychological crisis, namely analytical psychology, which works a lot with this, in fact, because jung created his analytical psychology in a personal crisis, when when he got there somewhere around 40 years old, so well, what would i work with with his personal crisis of meaning , he has a crisis of meaning, he calls it himself, i would show him, well, i would demonstrate this idea about the fact that there was the first half life in order to get confused , now is a great time to get unraveled, i would show him the perspective, because it is very important for him to show this perspective, he does not see it, and i would also show him through certain interventions that his request to the inner meaning, and he searches for himself, but transfers it to some external objects, and a child who did not happen, i would pull this meaning from the child, conditionally, and transfer it to the person inside, well, i would invite him to see it too, of course i would collect if only his medical history, that is. What is his history of early childhood, what happened in his life, what defenses he has, yes, what actually protects him from such a deep Movement Towards himself, would make them more flexible, and in the process, that is, you could detect something, conditionally speaking, in his early childhood, at the age of three or 5 years, what sprouted, laid sprouts, these grains under the snow of life, yes, which then by the age of 40. Suddenly sprouted, when you didnt really want to, but they made their way , well, it would help me more quickly to see his situation as a whole, yes, what kind of person he is, to actually deal with his feelings of guilt, what else was there, satisfaction, well, you would have discovered that the roots of his feelings of guilt of todays fortyyearold lie in his early childhood, i dont know what your relationship with your parents is like will you say that this didnt happen, or something, no, why are we doing this, i agree in this sense with arthur, that. That is, there are certain things that bother him, they also need to be dealt with, guilt, for example , there is no selfconfidence, in the psychodynamic and approach in the model, i would determine what kind of character or ego defense this is, and from this, from this concept, i already understood what resources he has, what he can rely on, strengths that can be shown, and what he has on the contrary, well, lets put it this way, weaknesses, yes, what prevents him from moving, what he needs. This is a psychic podcast, watch all episodes on the channel one website, lets give examples of when you would still refer each others clients. Arthur, who or what would you share with daria, for example, indeed, there are clients for whom. Metaphors are much easier, images are much easier and work through such a channel, while cognitive psychology is still more about words concepts, yeah, and indeed, if this channel, words, concepts, behavior, thoughts are something difficult for a person, it is much easier for him to turn to something metaphorical, yeah. Then, of course, darya will cope with this much better. Daria, in what situation would you send your client to arthur . And, well, for example, if a person comes with some kind of pronounced phobias, they directly interfere with his life on a behavioral level. I definitely do, and sometimes i do this, that is, i say that we need to remove, yes, this level, and just cognitivebehavioral therapy, yes, shes doing a great job with it, thats it. Well, i would rather add that within the framework of cognitive concepts, other approaches also cope with this, for example, imdr is als