A blip to a t economy counting the cost on aljazeera. To govern israel another deadline to agree a government has come and gone after benny gantz gave up trying the mandate is now with the knesset but will it be able to move things forward so whats causing this breakdown in israeli politics this is inside story. Well welcome to the program im in israel is facing an unprecedented 3rd election in under a year thats after Opposition Leader benny gantz was unable to form a Coalition Government last attempts came after Benjamin Netanyahu is seeking a record 5th term as Prime Minister also failed neither has managed to secure the backing of former defense minister Avigdor Lieberman he is israel b. 10 your party is seen as a king maker bots for benny gantz the problem isnt lieberman its netanyahu. I would seriously school netanyahu needs to remember israel still has a democracy even if it doesnt appeal to him he should have come to terms with the fact that the outcome of the elections requires him to negotiate directly with no blocks or barriers these are a blunt and violent attempt to deprive the voters from their democratic choice most of the People Choose a liberal unity government headed by blue and white most of the people voted to weaken the power of extremists and most of the people voted to go on a different path from that of netanyahu in recent years. Well netanyahu insists he wants a coalition but not at the expense of Israel Security he accuses gantz of being willing to form a minority governments with terror supporters who receive instructions from israels enemies this is a reference to israeli arab politicians who the Prime Minister claims are trying to destroy israel will bring in our guests in just a moment but 1st a false it has the latest from west jerusalem. Well the one your paper referred to was about to start as injury time in this entire process its never happened before but for the next 21 days the Israeli Parliament the knesset will theoretically have the power to nominate one of its members it could even be benny gantz or Benjamin Netanyahu even of a failed so far to try to form a Coalition Government if they get the magic number of majority 61 seats in the knesset to recommend anybody who they view has the realistic possibility of forming a government but so far there seems little prospect of that happening everybody is sticking to their positions very rigidly netanyahu is refusing to go 2nd in any rotational deal with his rival benny gantz pentagon says that he wont sit under a Prime Minister who is under or facing indictment and he wants netanyahu to negotiate only from the basis of his own party not the wider bloc of other allied right we can religious parties that he currently comes with as a package deal according to some reports certainly not later than next early next week according to most reporting is the final decision by the attorney general whether or not to indict Spencer Netanyahu in 3 separate Corruption Cases and in one of them whether or not to include the charge of bribery how that will play out of course will also be very important in what happens in the next 3 weeks. Well for more on this im joined by our guests in tel aviv we have your seat beilin a former israeli minister of justice and member of the knesset with the labor party in lundie youll see mechelle barak professor of International Relations at Regents University hes also an associate fellow for the middle east and north Africa Program at Chatham House ants in west jerusalem Mitchell Barack c. E. O. Of kiev on Global Research a political consultancy gentlemen welcome to you all if i may start with you yossi beilin what in your view has prevented the formation of an Israeli Government. The main thing is the result of the elections the 1st round in april and the 2nd round in september no party won the elections and as a result of that both of them tried to create a coalition with another polity this are the party of the liberal man it was not ready to join we need the left or right and as a result of it we are stuck the question is where the 2 big parties a blue white and the likud may join together in order to have a unity government and this so far it has not happened it may happen in the coming 21. 00 days that they have in order to choose perhaps a Prime Minister would you would you agree with that youll see Michael Burke due to the feelings of having to lieberman the blue and white and the could simply cant get together so where just where does the parliament go from here. Well i believe if youre seafarers and fall its a numbers game and the numbers dont add up you need to somehow to get to a majority all 3 of them i know to govern but we finance people not to war or ject on the opposing team in the knesset so this is the this was the result of 2 elections not not one but the in the midst of the plot but there are subplots that influence it for instance different people of playing the different games to serve their own political future and co you have the big elephant in the warmers of course the indictment of i mean the store the potential indictment of Prime Minister on it and you know hes one easy one that the blue and white are ready to sit in government considering that in the next week or 2 you might be indicted liberal man who is a long time then mrs of the Prime Minister sees an opportunity to enhance his position and come we fall sort of constitutional changes and if this is the situation and you can the numbers dont add up maybe 3rd election might be the only the only solution forward however the question if there lect or it is ready actually to put aside differences and support government parties that can form a coalition there thats an interesting point that you raise your seat back a barque i want to pick up on it in just a 2nd and tackle the the possibility of a 3rd election in just a 2nd but 1st of all to you what would you say is the stumbling block we have had several attempts to try and form an Israeli Government in your view what is preventing the formation of this government. Well its interesting because where the israeli people always criticizes their politicians for not having any backbone not having any ideology and always selling out it seems that people are stuck in their positions here and theyre stuck and theyre not willing to compromise on any issues and what happens is theyve been locked in the 2 major parties which is really blue and white which got one more seat than the likud and likud are locked in because its a yeah i was saying im going to be indicted even if hes going to be indicted everyone knew about it and hes the leader of likud and hes going to you know hes going to you know run the ship and hes going to go to elections if he has to and hes not backing down and hes not resigning at the same time blue and white was elected on a platform of no sitting with netanyahu if hes under indictment if hes indicted or hes going to be indicted or or until we know for sure so they can go back to their electorate and say were willing to sit in a government with a person whos has an indictment and its and now has no reason to join a government where you know he has to give up the Prime Ministership so it is a clash of egos to a certain extent but its more of an ideology at this point which is pretty rare in israeli politics to see that theyre sticking to something and not deciding where in this 21. 00 days are were going to be in this 21. 00 days and in just a moment and this is where the activity is going to happen because every party has got to realize that the israeli public may be punishing them severely in the elections again who has the most to lose by not backing die not become to you yossi beilin. Well i believe that it is not a clash of egos what you have here is a Prime Minister who does not want to go to his trial is somebody who is not in the seat of the Prime Minister this is his main motivation and if they are blue and white is saying no way we will not seat until you do you will not serve until you if you are indicted then you have a clinician not because everybody wants to be a Prime Minister for long there isnt an agreement that it will be a rotation government each of them will have 2 years the question is whether the 2 years of the 10 yo will be from now until 2 years from now all of guns what might happen is that in the likud itself there will be a kind of a rebellion there will have primaries for the Prime Minister. In the coming days and if it is not it then you know then the way forward station government is open because regretfully their disputes so far are not ideological about peace with the palestinians or about social issues but only about sylvia or not serving under netanyahu Mitchell Barak here would you agree with that basis met netanyahu is the stumbling block its not an ideological issue this is a man who doesnt want to be indicted for for corruption. Well right well hes using the entire electoral system the entire knesset and the entire israeli people hes holding them hostage so that he can have a better trial and have a better outcome i would call that an ego ego maniac problem if i had to look at it because hes got the whole country hes holding for that reason i think that netanyahu at this point has has the most to lose because if this indictment comes down in the next week or so he is going to look like a damage Prime Minister which is unprecedented to have a sitting Prime Minister who is under indictment and thats when the rebellion that yossi beilin is speaking about could happen because once he starts sliding in the polls the likud is not going to stick with that theyve stuck with him for 2 elections now and he has failed to form a government hes theyre not going to give him a 3rd chance if hes really sliding in the polls and the way to now runs a campaign in general is he likes to trail and he likes to be losing hes the only leader in the world that the day before a few days before the election says im losing and im going to lose this election because he gets his faithful out no one is going to take that chance again in likud to bring him up to the next election day and hope that the people come out so i think thats what a lot of it is its not ideological i mean i agree with yossi beilin that its not ideological about the Peace Process about the economy it is an ideological battle at this point of how they went to the voters and its and yeah went to the voters and said im the leader of israel im the best guy that can do it and i cant accept anything else and its an ego in that he wont step down now for the next 2 years he will not leave the Prime Ministers office or the Prime Ministers home from benny gantz in the blue and white point of view it is also ideological that they face the voters and said we will not sit with the Prime Minister under indictment they cant change that thats why they are at loggerheads at this point if not to now would move out and say you know hes willing to resign there would be a government in 5 minutes if the likud we. Give another candidate or there would be a breakaway either through the blue and white party with lockheed breaking off or in the likud with some of those people breaking off there would be a government and thats where it seems to be a jam now ok yes the meccan back would you agree with that assessment again i think we use it in a different way here its not that we have parties especially the larger parties that present to devote to us today electorial diametrically opposite our you go to jesus as mentioned earlier about about say peace with the palestinians about the place of his early in the region about social inequalities that are growing all the time about how to govern the country where there is so much cooption its made their main ideology is to many be in power and then to think what they do next actually those of the small parties that are more ideological because theyre theyre also the voters are more coherent and more unified are ideologically its just to break the impasse between the big parties and yeah i think the previous because the light if netanyahu sits aside and go in you know did we feel is legally issues then. It opens all sorts of possibility and there will in the end there will a coalition a bit wider coalition a unity government but right now the stumbling block is netanyahu himself and the photo feat that hes liberal monday if he plays his own game because you want to position themselves though he leads a small party but actually to punch way above his weight well now that. The responsibility is now with the knesset its up to the knesset to try and find someone who may form a government do you think that this will be possible or are we heading to the polls before the year is yossi beilin. Well the question is if there is an indictment it might be today it might be in the coming days and it might change the whole picture it is true that today when people are asked in Public Opinion polls would you change your vote if an attorney hour is indicted for bribery a changes are not too big but you never you can never actually a know it in advance so once it happens then we will see if there are real changes and if this situation of an attorney deteriorates in the Public Opinion polls it would legitimize a change in the likud and it is true that if there is another leader whoever in delhi could rather than it and you know then it would be very very easy to have a unity government with blue and white so then with your agree with this michel barack a kingmaker in this entire process would be the attorney general. To a certain extent i mean his timing is off hes taken too long we have an idea that the attorney general is going to come down at least on one if not all of the 3 cases with bribery but i think what were not even taking into account is it is correct that by the time he the Prime Minister is under indictment his status changes and he may be on a downward slide but we havent even discussed that a week and a half ago you know 300 missiles were came in through gaza israel is involved in you know attacking arraigning in targets in syria a few missiles people at televisa in modine in the bulk of the center of the country were in their bomb shelters that cant go on meeting all you need is some kind of security changes like that where people will say its and you know its enough already meaning theres a a real instability thats taking place in israel now and its both with the security and also with the economy the government is not functioning it hasnt functioned since last november really when a lot of government contracts had to stop because it was during an Election Campaign so you have people that arent getting paid you have governments that cant you know ministries that cant have new initiatives israel is is strategically is falling behind so anything can change any type of Current Events can change and bring those parties together and what youre going to see now with all the members of knesset is the 21. 00 days there are some members of knesset this is their 2nd term of office in as being new members of knesset and they havent done anything so white and their members of knesset have been there 10 and 20 years that may lose their jobs well let me put it to you then surely given that the security challenges which israel is facing given the fact that the government says as you say michel is no its functioning right now given everyone is waiting for a potential indictment to come dine surely this is a time for leadership and given the situation which of the leaders of the Numerous Party except themselves in glory. Well i would say that next week in america is a very big holiday its called black friday and everything is on sale and everything is marked down and people there are the most amazing deals that take place online and at every retailer in america and i think that were going to see a kind of black friday in the knesset where were going to see unions that people didnt expect were going to see people coming forward because these members of knesset have 21 days to keep their job for the next 4 years or some of them may be out and some of them may never see the knesset again from the inside of the building and thats going to be motivating them as well as this is really bad for israel for the israeli people and for the democratic process lets talk about the israeli people then youll see Michael Barrett given the situation there arguably the lack of leadership that we are seeing the fact that there is still no government being formed despite all the events happening what would you say the israeli people are making off this well i think 1st and foremost they they created this situation i know its not popular to blame the people for for situation but its their potten of voting or vote which created the situation and the thing they if the election day they need to we think go back to the go and vote in thing is this the way we want to vote again or we are actually not going to get exactly what we think we are going to get because eventually they get very little and votes for other polity in the way that coalition can be formed but in the meantime they need to put pressure on the politician and this is intolerable situation as mitchell says its not that we are talking about the country that lives in peace with its neighbors and everything is going to come to of milk and honey that everything is milk and honey is a country thats facing a form from the mystics to International Issues every single single day and they need a stable government and its untenable that there is an interim government for you that has. All the power in the world but have very little responsibility or accountability thats the time for people to express it the way that you expect in a democracy people who go there and tell the elected members that they cant tolerate this situation anymore so youll see i make a big how do you think a 3rd election would change or how do you think the voting public would say changelog allegiances im not so sure its going to change i think people of intervention their position in the support in the partys small party probably small parties of differently can consolidate their vote where there is that our bodies tell them how to vote the National Religious one but i think you need to see at least movement between between the blocks and weve seen the blocs towards the bigger parties in a way this receipt now the bigger parties we talk about big parties but theyre not big parties they have roughly half of what they need in order to get a majority and this is really i think the parties need to change the way the campaign they need actually to adjust their platforms in a way that it will be polite but to do more and more voters and i think actually foresaw its about i think long term education what is democracy and in a democracy what kind of compromises you of doing you know the that you sometimes compromise or give up a beautiful presentation in order to get better governance or governance at all ok youll see bail and if i could come see us uming the country does go to a few 3rd unprecedented 3rd sets of elections what do you think these elections would change. Well im not sure that we are approaching a 3rd round of elections i believe that the. Members of knesset. Exposed to the criticism in the Public Opinion against the Current Situation and theyre sending them to the ballot boxes so early they will try to have a unity government this is the more likely option i personally would like to have a Smaller Center leftist government but apparently it is not likely to happen so the efforts would be and i also dont believe that it will be a kind of a black friday in the knesset that everybody would like to be a Prime Minister and they get the signatures of his colleagues know that it is mainly blue and white now and the likud and they have they will have to see how can they is solve the problem one option is of course changing the leadership of netanyahu by having somebody else from the likud and then there would be a rotation government no problem there might be also some other solutions but i believe that they both know that the elections we not be a real upheaval according to all the Public Opinion polls so far it is going to be moralists the same and list the indictment of netanyahu and his remaining in power will have something to do with the affinity of the members of the likud the voters of the likud to their polity and that there would be a diminishing support for the recalled that might be interesting. Michel baraka ill come to you finally if we had 2 thirds election do you think things will change or will we end up with a similar kind of stalemate or to the one we have not and if so how do you think this situation will inform the campaigns moving forward. Well i think theres 2 things to consider at this point one is that we dont really know whos running at this point meaning the parties assumed the after the 1st election that the same people would run again and pretty much they did they found a different way to you know make some of those parties so you may have some of those smaller parties go into larger blocks and you may have people coming into politics that are not there right now and you cant we cant underestimate who that could be or what they might do or what effect they would have because when we know that israel is at about 25 to 30 percent of the israeli electorate doesnt decide until the last 3 or 4 days before the election and we even have a precedent of a few years ago a few elections ago when the Pensioners Party got a lot of seats they got like 6 seats in the knesset and no one even knew who they were and then they disappear so people maybe one more willing to take a chance and vote for some kind of new party that that can break the stalemate so thats one thing so blue and white and likud and lieberman they all have to realise that that there may be other people coming in running in different parties including some people they may break away from those existing parties so theyre better off working with what they have thats one thing the other thing which i would say if the we go to 3rd election is the Israeli Arab Community here you have a 1000000 and a half voters here or 1000000 a half citizens here who have now been there now under attack for almost more than a year in the last election the one before that and they came out really massively 60 percent in the last election and they lowered the threat they raise the threshold for some of the other parties oh thats my hood on blue and white last so you may have better participation now from the Israeli Arab Community ok mitchell im going to have to cut you off there but thank you to all of my guess we are out of time thank you yossi beilin yes we might go back and show barack thank you for watching you can see this program again any time by visiting the website out of the root dot com or catch the show on the all to see what you cheap channel or facebook. 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