The pandemic. And the babies locked behind closed doors away from parents desperate to take them home. Im sure i guess roscoe would sports the wait is over as footboards hands to germany there are no fans allowed in any of the stadiums with Strict Health and safety rules in place. A top u. N. Prosecutor is welcoming the arrest of a suspect in the 994. 00 rwandan genocide 84 year old philip had been on the run for 25 years the hutu businessman is accused of funding those who slaughtered civilians and the Radio Station that encouraged it of a period of 100. 00 days and 994. 00 hutu militias killed at least 800000 minority to seize and moderate hutus prosecutors say paid those militias and purchased weapons that were used in the killings in 1997 he was indicted on 7 criminal counts including genocide. Was arrested near paris on saturday after he was found living under a false identity. Louis munch is the Central Africa director for Human Rights Watch he joins us now from burlington in the u. S. State of the month thank you for your time just how important a development is this thank you so much for having me kim this is a huge day this is a huge day for rwanda and this is a huge day for International Justice and its very difficult to overstate how significant this arrest is for this young koga is one of the big fish he is one of the last remaining individuals out there who really had it was alleged to have had excuse me a real planning purpose with regard to the rwandan genocide and for many years folks like myself thought maybe he was going to get away with it maybe we would never find him there was rumors of him being in europe in east africa for years so to wake up to this news is incredibly significant and i cant imagine how relieved. And i dont want to use the word happy but how resolved to people in rwanda survivors and victims family members of victims of the genocide must be given how instrumental he was in the genocide will there be questions asked about how he was able to remain on the run for so long. I think there will be questions asked and i think they absolutely should be the fact is is that for the not someone who was unknown there was a massive reward out for him for many many years he has been at the top of the rest the sort of most wanted list of not only east african countries but also european ones so i think there should be an absolute investigation as to how he was able to get this other identity and how he was able to evade justice for 26 long years do you think there will be any debate about where he should be tried i mean in recent years weve seen a lot of debate about about where suspects should be tried and that people want them tried in the place where those atrocities were committed. Yeah and to suppose that there might be some level of debate with regards to this debate or noise the fact is that for this interview with the jurisdiction for his case resides with an International Mechanism the International Criminal tribunal of rwanda and the jurisdiction of that case stays with that mechanism even though that mechanism has been wound down theres now whats called a residual mechanism so for these in this case will be tried by International Court if you if you will however as you have alluded to there has been some moves especially the last 2 years to to try to get these people tried on the soil where they committed a crime for us as Human Rights Watch its a tricky one we absolutely acknowledge and want to push for d trials of alleged you know very people who are alleged to have committed very serious crimes to be to be done on the soil where those crimes can were committed but with rwanda were dealing with a country that is still has very much authoritarian tendencies were dealing with a country that in our opinion in Human Rights Watch does not have an independent judiciary the judiciary is very much controlled by the executive and so real questions would be around whether he was able to receive a free and fair trial in rwanda but to get back to your earlier point i do think we will see the government of rwanda at least make noise with regards to the fact that he is still being tried outside of the one in territory thank you for your time louis months there the Central Africa director for human rights what. Thank you. Moving now to the corona virus pandemic and signs of course this optimism are emerging in europe as many countries become to ease travel restrictions and reopen sectors of their economy travel to and from italy will start again next month it will scrap 14 day quarantine bills and allow previously bans trips within the country travel is now also allowed across england but rules for the rest of the u. K. Scotland wales and Northern Ireland have not been while in france and greece beaches can now be enjoyed by the public but there are rules on the number of people allowed and how close together they can be sports is back in germany with the return of the Bundesliga Football League 6 games we played on saturday spectators will not be about record gupta takes a look at the struggling italian tourist industry and how these changes cant come soon enough. Empty tables deserted holds rooms steeped in history yet without visitors theres no one to the gilded walls of italys finest laci hotels instead of the silence on the once bustling terraces the symbol of a pandemic that swept through italy leaving thousands dead give the staging its economy is that the piano this whole would have been crowded noisy with people chatting at the bar visitors passing by and appreciating the beauty of these halls now its empty lonely it is the 1st time in almost 80 years of the history of this hotel which was built to the thirtys is empty and closed. But there are signs of hope the government is allowing people into and out of italy from early next month free travel within the country will also receive a number i want to get we look forward to the reopening of borders and then there might be the possibility for travel forecast the not positive but we are very optimistic. A low italys coastlines hotel owners are preparing for a different kind of summer but on the other were ready to host tourists who come to the veneto coast in these last weeks weve worked to adapt our beaches our hotels and our campsites to the Current Health emergency we were able to guarantee the celebrity of a seaside holiday caution is critical for an industry that contributes 13 percent to its knees g. D. P. And employs more than 4000000 people the Economic Impact of the pandemic has been devastating to the limit were estimating they will lose about 18000000000. 00 in 2 risen this year but we need to understand what will happen from tomorrow on wards if hotels have a possibility to reopen in june giving Foreign Tourists the chance to reach italy we will limit those damages with many countries restricted air travel tourist numbers are predicted to fall by between 60 to 80 percent this year globally but many hope that with the not vigilant business can get moving again and the lights can finally be turned back on. Well lets move down to the beaches of brighton in the u. K. Where restrictions have been lifted roy talons joins us live from there rory and all weekend trip to brighton was very much a thing. Now the lockdowns being how is it all looking at people paying attention to the rules. Well the fear amongst the local authorities here and ive been speaking to a counselor from the green party works here in Brighton And Hove and he was saying look its against every bone in his body of every fiber of his being but he was saying just dont come here this weekend if youre from london outside of brighton wherever this is not the place you should be coming the moment for a day trip up and you can see the beach behind me its there are people here but its certainly no way near as busy as it would be on a normal warm may weekend but these are not normal times we know that weve been told it time and time again and the fear is that as these restrictions are being slowly incrementally released in the u. K. With Boris Johnson dropping the stay at home message now saying stay alert instead whatever that means that people are going to start rushing to places like this and coming out of their enforced hibernation but the moment it seems as if the people are still listening to their the advice they should be being very cautious and not going back to normal life quite yet as you mentioned earlier travel is now allowed across england but different roles for the rest of the u. K. Why are we seeing this difference. Well you know the u. K. Constitutional makeup is that although the governments in westminster the u. K. Government has primacy there are. Governments and devolve parliaments in wales and in scotland and in Northern Ireland. They have been in control of their own lock down measures and what were seeing now is the beginnings of divergence with. Lifting some of its lockdown measures but none of those measures being lifted yet in wales or scotland and i think what this does is it exposed again some of the fault lines that exist in the u. K. As political structure we saw those fault lines being exposed with bracks its and we have in the last 2 years had a referendum on Scottish Independence the coronavirus pandemic is again exposing those fault lines and speaking of fault lines and apparent to you this has emerged. Tell us about that. Yeah to get again on the same theme how does this country. From the coronavirus locked down and all the steps that its taking being taken to sea and so the government says that it would like to have at least some kids going back to primary schools june 1st but there has been opposition to that voiced by the unions that represent teachers and also the British Medical Association saying that its just too soon to do this the teachers unions are saying we want to make sure that its our stuff being properly looked after and properly protected and this is kicked off so much that the childrens commissioner will be called and longfield as waded into the arguments saying hey Everyone Needs to stop squabbling lets sort this out amicably there has to be some way of looking out for the kids best interests and doing this in a in an incremental and proper way thanks to avoid challenge there live from brighton. As you mentioned germany. Is taking some steps to get back to normal life when does the Football League is resuming and the country plans to reopen its borders to european travelers but protests are also planned with many people demanding an end to coronavirus restrictions altogether lets go live now to dominic kane whos in berlin dominic 1st of all what the bundesliga so games are going ahead but with empty stands it must be quite surreal. Yes what we have right now is situation no fans in the stadiums anywhere across germany where the top flight football is taking place and theyre missing out on plenty of goals having been scored in the games that have been getting under way remember over the course of the next few days asto sunday monday all 18 teams in the Borders League or will fulfil their fixtures but with nobody in the stadiums to watch them in german its called guys the ghost games nobody there the point is that these games are being watched if not by people in the stadiums but by people around europe because they are looking at what the boomers leaguer is doing and and wondering to themselves might this be a template for our countrys many football associations having their eyes on this to see well are the procedures put in place by the blunders the going to be the sorts of things that they can do because remember the players the squads have to be tested on a very regular basis on the basis of those tests then the teams are able to to field squads who can play against each other fulfil the fixtures and get to the end of the season that is what the blunders League Officials really hope theyre going to be able to do they see today and tomorrow and monday the river resumption of these fixtures as the way to get to a complete season but the man in charge of the blunders league of the german Football League has said he understands that whats taking place over the course of this weekend is very much as though his league was on probation. But not everyone it seems is happy with the pace of return to normal or c. In germany as we mentioned protests the planned what can you tell us on that front. Whats interesting about the protests that are taking place across germany this weekend certainly on saturday is that its taking theyre taking place in many different cities that has been the way things have happened over the course of the last few weekends certainly towards the end of april and into may weve seen increasing numbers of people take to the streets on saturdays not to wear the mask to get with to get inside the supposed one and a half meter distance theyre supposed to observe with each other and to carry placards saying they want an end to the restrictions they want an end to the lockdown because theyve just had enough the interesting thing is that predominantly it has been people from the far right fringes of society who have populated these movements these gatherings over the course of the last weekend its been cities like berlin like hamburg like munich like st got big cities where weve seen thousands of people come out but the police remember have been empowered particularly during this pandemic to be able to enforce order to prevent large scale gatherings to try to prevent people from inadvertently exposing themselves to further corona risk and one other thing thats interesting here is an opinion poll that has emerged today suggests that around 80 percent of society of people in germany are satisfied not just with the lock down thats been in place but the way that the route the relative restrictions have been eased over recent weekends so it is a minority of people who are unhappy with the way the lockdown has progressed and indeed its a minority of that minority who take to the streets over the weekend that i was referring to think theyre dead theyre just there is done it came in the lead. Lets take a closer look at the protesters dont exist previous ones fanned by far right groups have turned violent analysts say germanys anti migrant a if tea party its repositioned itself as an anti lock down force and is among those encouraging demonstrators a recent poll by the spiegel newsmagazine found nearly one in 4 germans voiced understanding for the protests and in the u. K. Fliers have been circulated calling for people to get out and have picnics in defiance of government Restrictions Police believe far right groups are also involved in that. Joining us from manchester in the u. K. Is peter king didnt he is a professor of Clinical Psychology at the university of liverpool because of course psychology is very important in all of this what is it do you think thats driving people to these anti lockdown protests im not just talking about people being upset about staying inside but i mean psychologically speaking. But i. Think your 1st point is is really well made i mean the evidence seems to be that people are coping reasonably well with the lock down not only the survey that your previous correspondent was talking about but i think surveys in the u. K. And indeed the reluctance of people to put their children at risk of going to back to school too early indicates that people are necessarily being psychologically pressured by the locked and there are pressures for children who have abusive parents for people in abusive relationships and then a clearly pressures to people with preexisting Mental Health problems there are pressures but i think that we are starting to be aware of the fact that the pandemic and the governments response to the pandemic has a major social impact and we know that populist groups thought roots in particular opulence politicians do take advantage of crises weve seen this over over millennia when there are economic downturns but there are Financial Difficulties when there are economic problems for instance after conflicts then often populist and far right groups take advantage of that so i think its probably better to see these protests less as a spontaneous popular protest against lockdown and im not sure theres much evidence that more some of the worry is that populist politicians can take advantage of social disruption i think we need to be guarded against that i think incidentally theres a responsibility of journalists to be clear about that as well as for politicians to respond what do you make of the convergence of conspiracy theorists with these anti lock down protest is because the same people you know anti vexes anti 5 d. Protest is also taking part in these protests mean how does that all come about. Well it Conspiracy Theory is a complex and difficult one and to explain theres an element of conspiracy policing conspiracies playing again to an individual psychological issue people want to understand people want to interpret the world in a way that makes sense in the light of their preexisting beliefs but also at the moment we know that the response to political statements by senior politicians and fueling of conspiracy theories and the facts campaigners and the science campaigners does have an element of organized political activity not only by domestic and again domestic far right groups but also sometimes by foreign actors and weve seen our Intelligence Services they worried about the control that they need to not to control the media but to ensure that to do the opposite in fact to ensure that the far right groups with malignant messages arent taking advantage of it i think there is a perceived advantage to people from the fringes of the far right politics of undermining. Societies faith in institutions in science even in part in politicians so that sometimes their messages of hate can come so so again i think that the