Has been listening to them and crafting political messages for them for decades frank luntz is a legend in the world of political communication and hes been helping republican campaigns and other causes find the right words to persuade folks and he wrote the book on it words that work its not what you say its what people hear frank really great to be with you today you know so let me just start with with how you frame your book how do you see what americans are feeling today as opposed to what theyre thinking. Wow its difficult because our feeling is now become so powerful our emotions are actually more significant than our thought process and emotions have become that thought process when youre afraid of for your health when youre afraid for your job when your freight for your country when you watched the just use in the streets and you see that its happening everywhere it is not just around reaction that we have its also a motional and it is just as the gentleman i keep trying to explain to me the outlets like yours that were not trying to get the numbers behind the stats behind everything thats happening we want to know the consequences based on what we do this time what we say and based on what happens around us you dont need to know how many people have been infected kogut we dont need to know how many people lost your chops what we want to know is how does it affect us personally and what can we do to alleviate that impact you know frank youre one of the most brilliant wordsmiths i know and youve been trying to advise the Trump Administration to experiment with some different words rather than law in order to talk about Public Safety you know try to think about some of these crises because americans are feeling a Health Crisis at the same time an economic crisis and also course racial divides intention across the nation and and have you been able to succeed at all with with those you know so well in helping to guide them with language that would help give people confidence in the future as opposed to fear about the future. Well let me just correct that question just one thing which makes it sound like im advising a Trump Administration i started to use twitter because it allows me the chance to communicate to hundreds of thousands of people at the same time and i know that journalists like you follow my communication ive been very public about the words i recommend it for both donald trump and joe biden because at this point right now it is more important that we alleviate the fear that i know i felt and that we find some way to prevent this division from getting any worse and so i am using twitter to communicate to people to suggest that maybe they should take a different approach im going to give me this specific example doesnt matter whether youre a republican a democrat conservative or progressive with the public is looking for right now or policies that will bring safety responsibility and sensibility. Anis n n n peace of mind let me try that again save sensible and responsible are the 3 values of the public is looking for the most so that it will yield peace of mind even i because this is a live interview even i dont have the words precisely down because im thinking has anything changed since when i 1st wrote this whos the audience whos listening to this word to mean Different Things to different people right after this kong ive got a zoom call with a palestinian Business Leader and israeli Business Leader and im going to try to thread the needle so that my questions and my words they use with them will appeal to everybody rather than seeming to be pro one side or another and by the way that is the most difficult thing to do right now because that idea of a Council Culture is absolutely alive and well if i see something wrong in this interview there will be hundreds of thousands of people that will be demanding that you never interview me again or that they will turn me off i dont remember a time in my lifetime its 58 years now when it has been so difficult to find the right words and phrases to bring people together to create unanimity to create coming ground and and i put High Pressure at the center of you and thats why im a little bit nervous quite frankly because youre punished youre killed if you get it wrong thats what counts and culture means right now. I think that you have always been very sensitive without judging. Peoples voices and where theyre at that youve gone in to try to get the authentic frame that people are carrying with them i may disagree with them of those frames or be uncomfortable with them but this one of the things i think you bring to the table so well whether its an Israeli Palestinian issues or whether it is and how republicans frame this war ive listened to it and learned a lot from you but as you look at things like you talked about cancel culture and whats going on as we go through this drama in america about which figures we can look for im also looking at scientists like you know dr fouchier dr burks recently of late where we seem to have an assault on science what what have you explored that a little bit because when you listen to Richard Edelman edelman says that people are looking at the scientists and to doctors and source of authority more than ever but at the same time we see a raging debate about the solvency of science where are you in that where what are you hearing in that as a great question by the way even even look at how i dress right now you know that i never would have done this interview before a coven in a pungo shirt you probably would have had a tie on and youre still you may be relaxing in formal i wore the jacket for you. You were perfectly qualified for this interview and probably something that they may not know is that im looking if i look at you it means im not looking at the camera so in trying to make eye contact with you i cant im actually making eye contact with the viewer and the reason why i bring this up is that its not what you say that matters its what people hear its not what you necessarily communicate its how you do it. And so ill give you 3 examples of this im trying to teach people ask questions at the beginning of any kind of communication because that shows that you care about what your listener what your viewer thinks and that youre trying to put yourself on their level not above them and not allow them 2nd is the ideas the principle of i get it i understand and even better i want to be your voice its actually the best line that donald trump used the entire 2016 campaign im with her which was Hillary Clintons. I met her suggests that i have endorsed her im on this side i want to be youre going he says im on your side and thirdly you mention about doctors and scientists were polling all of this so this this is not opinion this is what the public is telling me and doctors have never been more trusting more than 30 years than they are right now doctors and medical professionals which is why the most powerful phrase you can communicate in the case ricco that is that depending i am depending upon doctors and data to painting says that im listening and im learning from them doctors of the profession the public trust most and data because in the end they do want you to take a scientific approach the thing that is most frustrating to me and i use masks as an example we are safer by using masks i dont believe in the mask police i dont believe in screening at someone in the in public if theyre not wearing a mask i just want them to stay away from me and i will stay away from someone unless i have a mask on. Thats not just good communication thats Good Behavior and i dont understand this battle over science for another example and this may surprise you im working right now on a new x. Or con for climate and notice at the outset i dont call it Climate Change i call it climate because the moment you call it Climate Change you politicize it and you lose voters who are in the Center Center right this is a serious issue this is a real issue and we need a new approach that breaks down all these political and partisan barriers and divides us for no apparent reason and i hope to unveil this language in this new approach at davos in january if we have it because issues like this are so serious im a different guy you and i know each other for a little while and you would know that i had a stroke in january im a different guy today than i was the last time you and i and im determined to take this skill that im fortunate to have developed and to take my interest in learning from people and applying it to the most controversial issues of the day whether that be the Israeli Palestinian conflict or issues of climate or racial racial reconciliation and that word reconciliation is so powerful right now because it does mean bringing people back together and thats why i said that sense of you because it was longer than most and you always give people the chance to communicate so can i apologize right now because of the stroke i dont speak as quickly as i used to and i dont bring together my thoughts it takes me longer to land the plane basically i need a longer runway and thank you for forgiving your. Well frank im very happy to give you a long runway and ill also say i think youre speaking eloquently and sharply and i and as you know i dont say things to be nice thats thats the way it is but let me say you know before the donald trump Hillary Clinton election i interviewed Vice President biden at that point you know he was not in the race but i said you know give me how youre looking at it and he said something very powerful to me at the time it gave me an insight into what might happen in that election and he said the Democratic Party had become a party of snobs that it that it had become detached from the working realities of lots of folks in the country im interested in that framing and whether you think joe biden is is is someone who people look at today given his language in framing at fixing that or has being. You know struggling with kovac and being relegated to some degree to his basement not entirely robbed him of that chance to show that the democrats are not a party of snobs im interested in how you see that so youve given me this is a very easy question to to give a pro trump an anti biden answer but i dont want to do that joe biden is clearly leading donald trump right now i dont know when this since you airs but it will as of as we look at my computer august 10th 2020 joe biden has a 9 point lead and that is significant that is beyond the margin of error no matter what trump course people say you he has behind and if the election were held today joe biden would win over 300 electoral votes or not be that close. The president does better in those swing states which tend to have more working class americans tend to be more based on manufacturing and this is wisconsin michigan pennsylvania ohio is right now an even race North Carolina the Vice President former Vice President has a lead even in florida which trump had been leading up until about 6 weeks ago by now as a lead right now so being in the basement has not hurt him in fact i would argue don trump is spoken too much in the last 2 months and its not that the public doesnt want to hear from him they dont want to hear the language that hes been communicating on do a few of them for your voters viewers right now and by the way thats been the biggest problem is that i am precise about words and because of my condition the war on wrong words have slipped down on the page in his viewers donald trump talks about law and order when he should be talking about Public Safety law and order to most people reminds him of policemen with a club hitting protesters over the head and thats not what they want most americans want safe streets and safe neighborhoods. Donald trump talks about his supporters being warriors most people dont want to be a warrior theyre simply hard working taxpayers and they want to be respected for what they contribute and a 3rd example is that talks about dominating the streets and what the public really wants are safe streets and safe neighborhoods hes got the right idea but is the wrong execution and joe biden side. He isnt very strong shape right now but in the end hes going to have to come out from the bunker is going to have to communicate where he stands ive seen some democrats argue that he should not debate down with trump i would tell you that would be a fatal mistake because even if the American People are upset with what donald trump is saying they would be even more upset with joe biden saying nothing at all this election is not over joe biden does understand what went wrong with the democrats in 2060 but he has to explain why hes not of the elite he has to explain why he understands the hopes fears of the manufacturer and the School Teacher and by the way that brings one other point which is a fine is not talked about schools opening and domage campus talk too much about them does he not understand. That parents are deeply concerned 51 percent of American Parents are either extremely or very concerned about sending their kids back to school only to 23 percent are either just a little bit concerned or not concerned at all so as to dont want so while the public does want schools to open they want them to open end going back to that language safely sensibly and responsibly and they dont want to be pushed into sending their kids to buildings that they dont feel comfortable with so trump is to animate it is too caffeinated on issues of reopening schools and joe biden is nowhere to be found so i have a problem with both sides and how they communicate because i dont think either side is listening im going to do something that i never would have done before cove it which is im allowed if i can open to have a drink during a live interview absolutely with with our enthusiasm frank will biden be looked at is biden versus trump and the v. P. Choice doesnt matter or do you think it becomes something that a lot of people are going to measure joe biden by in ways that could be surprising yes i think this this pick matters more than even john mccain when he chose sarah palin and that pick clearly hurt him not early in the Selection Process but later on after the public started to hear really how little she knew about the net National Issues she was a phenomenon and she actually helped john mccain take a lead over barack obama but she didnt do as well as she could have in the debate and she was not his substance of substantive. As a publicans working for particularly when john mccain was over 70 well joe biden is 77 hell be 70 and on election day weve never allowed 10 a president this old before and so its not that theyre going to add anything to bidens total i think hes now getting about the maximum that he could be getting the question is whether he to tracks whether she describes his you know its going to be her from from the candidacy there are 2 democrats that i think and i dont necessarily agree with them but there are 2 democrats who i believe would add or at least not her the biden can a c. One of them is is. Karen bass the credit congresswoman from california who is head of the Congressional Black Caucus she is more to the left than the average american but her kindness and her decency is so strong and so apparent in how she answers questions in how she deals with issues and i believe that while substance absolutely matters the character of the candidate matters more at this point in 2020 and that the American People looking for someone who they trust someone who they have confidence in and i think karen bass would be a brilliant choice and the same for susan rice and once again on a policy perspective i will be trashed by conservatives and i know that that susan rice has incredible Foreign Policy experience and if shes not b. P. I. Anticipate her as being secretary of state she has knowledge of all shes experienced in the embalming administration and she posts no punches and the American People want someone who says what they made means what they say and then does what they say and that describes susan rice either those choices would be good for joe biden because they wont cost him votes and they are are with people of of decency and of civility and the one candidate who i think would be the worst choice who is actually the front runner at this point is Kamali Harris and all i need to do is just for your viewers just go back and google Kamali Harris and stephen colbert. He asked the senator why she was so tough on him in the 1st debate and how they could possibly make amends because the questions were so difficult from harris to buy and harris his response was its a debate and then this fake laughter that clearly someones on her she says incident 88 times 8 times back and she was so clearly cute and and authentic in that response and to me in the debate is the most important time because thats when youre dealing with real issues and real substance if shes chosen the voters have the right to say we dont want this ticket because she has too likely a chance of assuming the presidency to be trusted i just thought the response was a rhythmic inauthentic embarrassing and i actually think it shows that shes not ready for prime time and shes clearly not ready to be joe biden spice presence. You know its fascinating listening to you about the nuances and the kind of you know rich tapestry of emotions that people feel around you know personalities and all the stuff that is swirling out there you know and as we get close to being this close i just love to to know d you know is there a possibility for either of these administrations whether d its a Biden Administration comes ahead or a 2nd Trump Adm