Hello and welcome to the program and the bulk of south africa is mocking freedom day. The historic day of the change, the course of the country hoops will hi, back in 1994 is use of segregation in white rule came to an end, a millions of black south africans costs their vote for the 1st time. But 30 is on many se theres little to celebrate hoops being replaced by disappointment and skepticism the African National congress, which has been in power since that time is accused of not keeping its promises. Its been embroiled and corruption scandals and unemployment. Is that an all time high crime is widespread erase based in a quality is still a problem. This is out of us. We comes a month ahead of general elections, which can see the amc lose its majority for the 1st time. So have south africans lost faith in that governing policy . Well, put that into, i guess in the moment, 1st the, this report from image in can the 30 years since i thought the goods went to the post for the 1st Free Democratic by delivering a final and to decades of a culturally white minority had given the button, i cannot forget how we suffered at the hands of flights in the city at night, but they will wide by cuz who are due to be assaulted black person if they saw them walking on a pavement. The applicant, National Congress met by Nelson Mandela when a landslide victory in 1992 and his remaining powers. Since that with a general election a month away. The amc could be at risk of losing its majority. For the 1st time. The economy is stagnant with unemployment, around 30 percent. Put those on to 35. 00. Its as high as 50 percent. Corruption has been a problem. The former secretary general, the amc is facing troll in june. And the amc speaker of the heisman resigned this april accused of Money Laundering public services. Severely lacking bowling power costs and will to shortages a part of daily life. For many, the amc insists things will improve and defend the record. Our task over the last 30 years has been to bridge the huge devise of well an opportunity now country between black and white, between men and women. Between the acid and rudo drama. We have done so not only to contract the injustices of the past, but also that we may realize that for potential of any part of me and which every person has a se. But according to the will bank, south africa is one of the most on equal countries in the world. Roughly 10 percent of its population holds around 70 percent. The wealth and race is still a major factor in that division. Is there something the opposition party, the Economic Freedom fighters says it will address radical policies including confiscating white and blind. And the nationalization of mines and bonds, making them popular with young people. The other meno position policy is the democratic annoyance. De priorities during the 20 twentys day to 2020 non term will be 2. 13, a 2000000 new jobs post. All that we can do to en, blurred chevy installed africa. And, and whats a shipping number 3 of the rates of bothering from the Democratic Alliance said it would be open to power sharing with the governing amc. Well, the amc said its in it to win. But if the amc wants to hang onto power, a coalition may be the only way that you can buy out a 0 inside story the. Okay, so lets bring in all of, i guess, all 3 of them are joining us from cape down. Melanie, so it is a political analyst and a full, a member of south Africas Parliament under president nelson. Mandela William Committee is founder and executive chair. Person of the Democracy Works Foundation and zacky act. My 2 is an activist and an independent candidate for south Africas Parliament. If i will welcome 2 or 3, if you saki, i wonder if i can start with you. Weve heard some of the examples that are of the failings of the a and c in recent years. They finally, its a great job to dress Poverty Issues to do with utilities, energy supplies. All of these a site is as reasons to punish the a, n, c. The polls give us a sense of the lived experience of what its like the south africans to face these challenges. We can everyone, my experience has been quite a lot of that and the other hall living came democracy. And as you would know in the form a and see the present me not to my understanding is that the people with the modem which gives you the dignity back to the people in many different ways. Of course, the degree for every month, for what do we have the clinical disposition of black African People, the disposition and intellectual disposition when people were really. Ready kind of cheap bodies for cheese night, but as opposed to human beings, you pay to be dignified citizens of the country. So youre really part of what was i was calling to inform the install the system to bring you into school when he went to work. When he went to the post office, how we usually come home, every aspect of life was to that full year was just pregnancy. And so like, you know, what happened between, you know, was in the same previous frame because of the items he was needing to make his body to wherever, when youre looking for the agency. Right. The thing is, so the sucking so okay, let me jump in and just just let what i wanted to clarify is whether the reason failings have in some way eclipsed past achievements. Wouldnt let me put that to you because also cited is disappointing with, with the ac that its lost. Its quote moral compass. What do people mean when they say they are and see has lost its moral compass with you . You know, thank you and thank you for having me on the program. I think its a mix. Lets just say the answers left some exposure say under one hand and read concepts about the physical music of freedom. Richard moved around and im also a child and go out and have my youth serving you during your process yet. I search bixler just see weve got weve, weve taken away, im forming a part of it last week. I hate you to call such as a new loss is and so im to infinity, but its almost stops. I mean, reality from a positive to democracy is beneficial, small is that youre suspended. This if youre, if youre connect types of to the answer and one way or the other, you would have benefits as if youre why its being corporate big business. Your would have benefited by and large majority of somebody comes back to you, the underneath, you know, it has almost remains where they were doing your box. If you go to melanie, do you agree with that . A small elite, the cream of the crop. Those are the people that have benefited from the work of the i n. C. In recent years, as someone who was elected as a member of parliament for the amc and the Nelson Mandela. Was it like to hear this criticism of what the Party Looks Like today . So i think many, i like the other 2 guys, william and zaki, i also grew half of my life under a prostate. And i was privileged enough to be part of the parliament announcement data ends in the beginning of the homepage as well. The thing about it is, i mean, many of us, i think one of us, i think everybody on the show would also tell you that we are deeply, deeply disappointed in, in what has happened and, and, you know, does illusion in some, some respects. I mean, i do agree that it slowly does benefit greatly. Thats true of as when insight was off the whites, they have still benefit from post about it. And its also from people in business. Its also a growing black middle class. And i think one needs to also acknowledge that you know, that it is still as bad as things. Oh, for the majority of poor people in this country. It is in some way still better than it was not only because they have democratic rights and freedoms, but also because things in some respects having groups, things like free education, Free University education, if you are poor, in water access to water even though in some places thats become a problem now, if, when there is electricity, the majority of people in this country has electricity, etc. So i think theres a narrative thats developed in the country and that is spelled in overseas as well. But nothing good has happened from in the last city, and i dont believe that is true even though we faced enormous challenges and things have gone wrong. And particularly under this emerging, im curious to turn back the clock and talk about the journey south africa has been on since the end of a pass item. The legacy of course, of colonialism, but still very much wants to present to william did negotiations back in 1994 the settlements the board and ends to the 2 opponents. Id give away perhaps too many concessions to white south africans. I dont know. I dont think so, you know, i, its against the, i to circle and possibly in the beginning. But i mean, looking back, that was the case. I, you know, retired and because you guys have tons, funds this and when done off to defend play as was Strong Enough to take a control. I mean we, we could not have another loosens. Im so really a compromise agreement is actually patching goods. Im from south africa. I mean, its a, you know, put a framework, the democratic 5 most of the rules foster transform a society. So i think the 5 see a lot of the young black years. Im not blaming. Im denija batch of 4 because the i, since i was giving away too much to our, to ask because i think i, you know, me, the, and it was just, it was jobs was at the time of year and i was like, works with it. Its up to the best of out the house, you know, it was i could do a better time. And somebody got the framework to transform the society. And i think the finally up, the items in government has nothing to do when he goes to a system was a compromise. But its a cell in splitting just by yeah, i mean the corruption that your age and incompetence as a nothing to do with a new go say some compromises. Let me still dig into this narrative and a little bit more detail if i may, because it is the perception. As you mentioned, there were some young south africa, Somebody Just to clarify what south africans were allowed to keep. Arguably the spoils of racist white supremacy. They privacy, namely lands and assets, and it doesnt take a course of the economist to realize the wealth begets wealth. And thats a lot of opportunities lease to stock nation. I wonder exactly whether that is why you are now standing as an independent you saw the difference to say this to you between the between 9499, we had well cool series about entering the country was good. And the big key and right to argument essentially became quiet little corruption. And the state country is, is something that i didnt give a section on the delivery of a c o ensuring the a comfortable administration that has failed. It is not, you know, to ensure that the country goes on. But if you look into the date is the Racial Divisions that exist. Ready serious Racial Division between African People colored people. The deeper racism that exist is being used to emotion and sought to divide people because no changes come to me for wedding cause people over the last few years. In fact, the cost of living the ability to access with what was being taken away, you can check the arrival time, which was destroyed this now coming back, but literally was full time. Yes, there was. Ready commutes around the same time a child seems to be just trying to move from one place to be honest. I would say is why people have been continued to benefit the people like that. So we, in a position of extreme privilege, but the, if we dont things, sites where 2 people at the new 16 besides sort of this. And thats, thats a difficult time to be. Melanie, do you agree with that . So i mean, you have a particularly interesting personal story and that you joined the i n c. You married wilhelm voted for with the grandson of one of the architects of a pod side. You will, ostracize from your community for joining the amc. Do you think that Nelson Mandela went far enough in creating a bedrock for a long lasting so called rainbow nation . You know, i think i prefer a Certain Committee onto, you know, onto that very well. Thats a point was of course the agency wanted to go further at the time and bust, berkeley marley and they were justified to have gone. And so the but it would have resulted in a, in a civil war. We wouldnt have had peace and the, and the amazing thing about a story of 50 years ago is that we achieved and sold africa, which know what something which nobody thought was going to be possible to have a peaceful transition to a democratic state. One of the most liberal constitutions in the world, and these things have fits of us through the last 50 years of constitution standing. Even though some young people are questioning and argued fisheries independent, the prices independent. We have an independent prosecuting this already. You know, we have as your trip in the beginning said, we have a president that has gone to excel. We have a speaker whos in front of the quotes. We have an ex secretary general of the n. C in front of the codes. All of these things are actually phenomenal signs of a country that has, has achieved, you know, for the democratic for so much i do believe so as a white person that we have as wides, intergenerational responsibility that we carry. And that is to contribute to this country. Nothing menu, id say that opinion with me. But i, i feel very strongly about that. You know and, and that we have a responsibility to keep on contributing to his country and not just sit on the edges and loads and criticize. Im interesting that you mentioned that you disagree, that because one of the things is often mentioned by members of the i n c is but there was an inability to implement much needed reforms of the hands of tied launch it because of the makeup of the judiciary. A concern being that the today did you victory represent roughly wipes. Members of the judiciary represents 30 percent of the bench, even though whites only make up around 7 percent of the population. What do you, what does that mean in practice . And you know, i think that is over place and, you know, i, theyre kind of criticism. I think, you know, how to just introduced to the x. That has to be one of the really important king and independent organizations that has presented us sliding even further down. I mean, this country was a beans in boston right now. It should, it wasnt for the judge. Would you disagree and the media sort of society . And then of course also that weve got a big business. So maybe its a competitive Business Success which has accomplished. They say that otherwise, you know, as a company we would have been on the phone now. But again, you know, to years many other societies in touch with you guys actually made a ton of balance. And i think we have given the answer to much of the 3 pos adopted rate yourself of a problem, or would you think about single forwarding . Does he ask and it has become a developed country, youd have some of our sort of, i show the vision is also at the beginning, we were just knocked off and off and i include myself in the, i mean i was a journalist and the yes, the transition uh, im really just as you know because of the answers of the price of the past. We thoughts um, feedback. Um the answer will be an individual leaders will be more than a prize that will be responsible and honest. That has not been the case of we have no, i mean spend enough to look toward. So the former president jacob zoom is description zacky all still judicial system. There was a judicial dictatorship as an exaggeration. Well, this is what i can say about the and the, the Community Company for the bases that i can check and see clearly the distribution side. Now, if anything you truly as become the ratio to terms of gender and the difficulty is now the new address, particularly new black churches, doesnt come from a background on a, the agency started the, the ration was, they come from the new the and why just the use the political battles are being pulled, you know, when we, when, when we need to look at all public predictors. Its in the way we have to look at the fantasies, corruption in terms of its ministers. As all the 4 digit job is to make a decision, right . Why dont i think it citizens the right spot we need . Lets move on and talk about Coalition Building because according to recent polls, just over 40 percent, so vote to say that they will back the want us of course might see a n c going forward. Because if the amc wants to stay in power of the challenging job of Coalition Building will be necessary would mean for the countries Political Landscape william to yes, i did. You know, i didnt see maybe im under retrace by and see very likely a screenshot of likely to be potentially a play. I play uh, i said probably some and i can probably send, i think i know a lot of subject terms are very watered. Its about colors and politics because theyre expecting me to ship them back. Oh, um. So for us to be 60, is that extra child from a company some point of view or data . I keep on remind people that theyre touchy to call. It shows up as a municipal level. All of the majority of them have been officers successful. I of course have been involved in police together. I sent you independence of windows. Are you sir . Police forget us on our side of the guest pass for you and i told her, and probably some of you just called a multi positive child. So now weve, which ive got involved, and i have a subject to do this today about the i to the come see a 4 color settings up for thats after that. So im going to run some angle because thats a space weve been trying to beat. And i also think combinations much more appropriate, some bunk bed uh, a more appropriate model for diverse sizes receipt agent. But also um, you know, that have some, some nice, nice instructions, consistency company, some politics. Weve seen a lot more research to be seen as a contrast to Success Stories and after checks on colored probably the semester, but somebody will. So i think its appropriate model. Right, melanie, do you agree with that . But a Coalition Government would be better suited to the type of south africa that exist today in ferry, i do in practice