Endless virtue signalling, the youthful warrior, which makes it a ha rd youthful warrior, which makes it a hard one for conservatives to a spouse. Those on the right will tell you it is about calm things, conservation, safeguarding resources , conservation, safeguarding resources, equilibria espouse. The battle to convince voters that conservatives are the natural champions of green issues will be an uphill one. That starts tomorrow when the government releases a 25 year plan on the environment including to eliminate all avoidable Plastic Waste by 2022 when the Prime Minister would be, excuse the details on the 86 years old. Anything radical . We find out tomorrow. Will it stated chance of making anyone think it is a subject close to the tory heart . We will debate it with stanleyjohnson whose latest encounter with all things green was in the australian jungle and he has written extensively on the environment, and caroline lucas, britains own green mp. First, nick watt. Ugly. Watt. Ugly, terrifying, and with heartrending results, our oceans are being menaced by the modern disposable consumer age. Plastic, now, every year, we dump around 8 million tons of it into the sea. The blight of Plastic Waste will be condemned tomorrow by theresa may as one of the great environmental scourges of our time. An of the voice of middle england and environmental activists has helped to inspire the central element of the governments 25 year plan for the governments 25 year plan for the environment. No doubt with an eye on winning over younger voters, theresa may will pledge to eliminate all avoidable Plastic Waste by 2042. She will urge supermarkets to introduce a plastic free aisles with loose food on display. Extend the 5p charge for plastic carry bags in england to all retailers. Increase funding for plastics innovation to improve recycling. And use uk aid to help developing nations tackle pollution and reduce Plastic Waste. The management of land will also be addressed in the speech as theresa may highlights the creation of a new forest in the north of england. The Prime Minister will also talk about how people can be better connected with the environment. Imm the chilterns, the Rolling Hills on the outskirts of london, which lie at the heart of the governments dilemma on protecting the environment while promoting Economic Growth. Behind me is the Prime Ministers official country residence which she uses for walks in this area. Over there and over that hill is the planned hs2 high speed rail link to the north of england, which is being fiercely resisted by residents here who say that it threatens this area of outstanding natural beauty. The tension between the economy and environment was put to the Prime Minister in the commons today by at chilterns mp. It is an issue felt keenly by this local farmer who also complains about mixed messages down the decades from whitehall. M complains about mixed messages down the decades from whitehall. It is definitely a dilemma and it has been a dilemma going on like that for generations. I could point you in, back to the 60s when it was government policy to pull out hedges and ever since the late 70s it has been government policy to plant hedges. It was never the farmers idea to take them out it was government policy and we were told to do it. So decisions need to be made with good, sound information, and knowledge, not on a whim, as it were. The central challenge for theresa may in this speech is to reclaim the environment for the tories who admit they had a mixed record in recent decades in promoting their green credentials. But the Prime Minister will say that preserving resources lies at the heart of conservative principles, preserving the public finances to ensure debt is not passed on to future generations, and preserving Natural Resources to ensure that this generation leaves the planet in a better condition for future generations. This is about reusing, recycling and minimising the amount of Natural Resources that we are using and it comes down to a very fundamental conservative philosophy, what attracted me to the conservative party originally, it is about stewardship, it is about doing stuff today that we may in our lifetime never see the benefit of, but others will, and it is that long term view, that is why i like the idea of a generation, this generation, for the first time, lee is the state of the environment in a better state than in that in which we found it. The problem is it often comes far too late and they will spend a very long time poo pooing science about whether the destruction of the environment is happening or not and often they act after Public Opinion has finally swayed and indeed after the environmental damage has happened. So for the conservative party to earn theirgreen so for the conservative party to earn their green credentials, they have to be a lot more proactive about tackling these issues before the environmental damage occurs. About tackling these issues before the environmental damage occursm rural areas, life can sometimes move ata rural areas, life can sometimes move at a sedate pace. But the passion stirred on how to protect the environment only becomes more heated with time. Nick watt. Now i am joined by the leading lights of the movement, sallyjohnson, former conservative mep, environmental campaigner for over 15 years 50 years. Caroline lucas is the green partys only mp. Anything from what you have seen so far that you disagree with, this action on plastics, trees, farmer subsidies based on what they get back. There is very little that you disagree with, i am assuming. Little i disagree with so far. The devil will be in the details on whether or not there is real legislative weight behind the proposals we are hearing. What we need to see is a real commitment to the environment act, which would make sure that all of these aspirations are properly turned into policy. Dont forget, we have been here before with the conservatives adopting a nice green sheen. We had David Cameron hugging his huskies and then when he was in office he went to culling badgers and finding about green clap. We know there is a detoxification process going on here. We know the tories have had some polling which tells them they need to more compassionate. This is a way to do that. If they are really serious there are two things they need to look for. One is the environment act with proper targets, timetables and legislative weight, and the other is to make sure there is action on Climate Change as well. You can talk about plastic as much as you like and plastic is a serious problem to marine animals, but if youre really serious about the health of the oceans, it is Climate Change which is warming the oceans, leaching our corals which is causing mammals to die. The problem is the tories look at the environment in a compartmentalised way. Next week we may be talking about a whole new fracking industry the government wants to unleash. If they do that, it will completely undermine their plan. Stanley, it does look very ambitious. In 25 years theresa may will not be held to account. 2042 is a long, long way away. I think we have to assume we get quite a lot of action much before that. 0n the plastics front it is good she is doing that. I think it is vital that she takes the comments with you. How can it be good to say we will get rid of that in 25 years . I think we have to take a very advanced view. So she is not doing enough on plastics . At the moment we are doing plastic bags. She is planning to have now a consultation on single use plastic bottles. Tremendously important. I take carolines point. This is not necessarily a left right issue. The conservatives honestly, in 1969, i was the conservative officer on the environment. We did take it seriously and by the way, we won the election in 1970, so i think they were right. That you agree you cannot divorce Climate Change fracking from what you are trying to do for 25 years on pollution . The problem is every time caroline and i meet together we agree with each other. You agree with me. Do you think his politics are a barrier to helping the environment, or do you think stanleyjohnson and the conservative party can solve it . Stanley has a real reputation for having done excellent work on the environment in the past. Where i would disagree now is he has done this extraordinary u turn on this position on brexit. He used to be alongside me, he set up environmentalist for europe, he is now adopting brexit. If he does this it will massively undermined the environment. Hold on, what i am assuming tomorrow in this speech that mrs may will make, i think part of the environment plan is to take over into eu law the whole raft of eu environmental legislation. And i think shes going to say that she will have an Enforcement Agency to do what the commissioner and ec]. We had a chance to vote on that. I put an amendment and it was not voted on. We started talking about the ideology of the environment and who had a right to it . Would you agree that the biggest friend to the environment is the daily mail. They did all the work against microbeads, the plastic bag tax, sea pollution. This is tomorrows headline. Mail end the plastic scourge. They have done more to help the cause arguably than the greens have. You are going too far. I take your point that they do some are good consumer campaigns. But you have to go to the middle ground. You have to do both. You have to get people aboard with understandable specific campaigns but you have to address the structural difficulties as well. For as long as the daily mail and the conservatives are promoting more and more of the same kind of Economic Growth, we will not have the systemic change we need. We have to change the way we do business. If the conservatives had to choose between Economic Growth and environ mental concerns, you know Economic Growth would always come first . One of the problems in this whole area is one of the reasons we are forcing ourselves down the Economic Growth through it if they constantly expanding population of this country and you cannot ignore that. We are going up to 70 million with 80 million in prospect. We should aim for stability as far as pollution is concerned and stability as far as Economic Growth is concerned. Years ago i wrote that and i think it needs to happen. But we need to look at some practical things right now. Hs2, when push comes to shove, when economic gains put on one side and the environment on the other, it is the economy which always wins out. There is something that planting more trees, that is great. Hs2 will threaten 35 agent woodlands. There is nojoined up thinking. Ancient woodlands. I think one of my sons is responsible for hsz. Have a word with him. We can take a leading role internationally, forests, plastic pollution, Climate Change and i would put in wildlife, biodiversity. Crucial areas. Thank you both very much. How well do politicians know the electorate . And do voters really speak their minds when asked about their concerns . To get a better understanding of peoples worries and insecurities one think tank, demos, tried to take the pulse of people in england paying particular attention to white over fifties voters in areas that have undergone the most significant cultural and economic dislocation over the past three decades. Instead of asking responders to tick boxes, it took down quotes and comments, word for word inviting people to answer honestly and anonymously without fear of what some called the need for Political Correctness. Well ask if their words represent legitimate economic grievance, wistful nostalgia or a failure to engage with modern britain in a moment. First, john sweeney has been gauging reaction to the reports content on Canvey Island in essex. Where better to discuss the latest trends in British Society than on the riviera, the essex riviera, that is, and nowhere more lovely than ca nvey island . So, this think tank called demos which is full of lardy dar types has had a go at people like me, white and over 55, you could call us pale and stale if not necessarily male. Our views are a mixed bag, some of them perhaps a bit too miserable worrying about the decline of christianity, worrying about do gooders. 0n the other hand, whats wrong with thinking about family . Whats wrong with believing that you should respect people . We moved out of london into housing, Council Housing from the old kent road. They have known each other virtually their entire adult lives. By the way, are you sisters or just mates . Friends for the last 50 years. 50 years, when did you meet . We met when i was waitressing in a nightclub. I was about 18 when we met in london because we lived in london. Was life better then . Easier. Yeah. I think it was easier, your husband went to work. Ijust think it was easier. I dont think you wanted for much, your main thing in life was that you had a roof over your head and your kids were at school and had a job when they came out of school. That was the main thing then. The demos report quoted dozens of people across the country. Here is one. What were you respectful of them that you see kids are not respectful of now . Things get handed. If you are sitting around the table, which we do, and use it all round the table, you have notjust got the adults around the table, youve got the children as well, so you are kind of passing on knowledge, respect. And love. Caring about one another and showing them which way to go. Sitting on this bench dedicated to his late wife we came across brian. Too many do gooders, our group think that. Do you think that . Im not sure on that one about do gooders. I dont meet many in my life. I meet a lot of people who are helpful in many ways, you know, in terms of the friendship ive had through whats happened to me. Ive had some very good friends. Would you call them do gooders . I dont think so. You cant go to Canvey Island without going down the booze. The survey said older whites were not great at naming politicians. True . Name a politician . Margaret thatcher. Shes dead, name a living one. Are any of them living . Steve . Theresa may. You are the intellectual, name another one. Tony blair, David Cameron. You are listing half of the cabinet, well, theresa may is in it the others are out. Why are your grandkids less optimistic about their future is then you were at their age . One thing comes down to the immigration. There are less jobs for our kids anymore. Thats what i see anyway. What about buying a house . The same thing. Are people more respectful of parity now all before . They are less respectful of authority, since they took the cane away at school, teachers are not allowed to punish children. Parents now seem to let their kids get away with anything. Years ago i had more respect for my parents. I got up to loads of skulduggery but i never took it home, it never went to my door. I had more respect for my mum and dad, whereas the kids nowadays dont seem to care, they have no respect for anything. As far as capturing the views of Canvey Island was concerned, the survey was spot on. John sweeney there. Were joined by Sophie Gaston who is the acting director of the demos think tank which is behind todays report. Also with us is danny lockwood, the publisher of the press newspaper, which covers dewsbury and batley in west yorkshiure and Areeq Chowdhury who is the chief executive of webroots democracy, a Digital Democracy organisation. Lovely to have you here. If i can start with you, sophie, from what youve heard from Canvey Island today, does that reflect the sort of voices you are putting together in that report . Absolutely. The key theme that came out of all of the focus groups we did was a sense that britain is fundamentally on the wrong track and that people have really utterly lost faith in the capacity of politicians to shape and improve their lives. For people to day life feel stressful, it feels precarious, and a real sense of mourning around things that have been lost. Danny, im going to come to you, this idea of the wrong track. If we could pull up these quotes, these are verbatim quotes, they dont necessarily all read very obviously but lets just pull up one of those quotes now. There are too many do gooders around. We saw a bit of that in the film, didnt we . To tell you what you cant do rather than tell you what you can do. What does that say to you . That speaks to me right off the top of the nanny state really. But it all lies within this Political Correctness that is also kind of invading every element of life. Im not surprised old people feel as though they are getting blamed for getting old, they have sustained the nhs for years but they suddenly feel they are a burden on it. And i think when they are used to having a sense of community and a place in life, they disappear. When you say Political Correctness, what does that mean . I can only go to my experience and say we have seen radical socioeconomic cultural shifts in our town and community has gone and its been replaced by, if you like, the diktats of whether it is political orjudicial or local authority, an administration that seems to elevate, real or imagined minorities, its values and rights above there is. I think they have been told, and they are sick of being told, that their values and their traditions and their Cultural Heritage is worthless. Areeq, do you recognise that as being a corrosive element . I wish we lived in a politically correct society to dont think we did i believe Political Correctness as having basic respect for one another. We need to tal