Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20180220

Delivering self rule anyway . We hearfrom the Irish Government. Also tonight, the rebel held syrian enclave of Eastern Ghouta could become a second aleppo, says the un. Almost 200 people have died in bombings by Government Forces there since sunday. And a male model tells us of the inappropriate behaviour he faces at work. Hello. Two challenges make this a fraught time in Northern Ireland. One it cant agree on self government. And two brexit. And so it has been interesting to watch, in the last few days, a small number of keen brexit supporters suggest that the 20 year old good friday agreement is past its sell by date. Kate hoey said its time for a cold, rational look at it. Mep Daniel Hannan wrote a telegraph piece arguing that british ministers should start working with their irish counterparts on improving the system. Its gently phrased, and its not a brexit point they are making per se, but this sentiment has only come from that side. Theres an interesting linguistic point here, too critics of the agreement tend to call it the belfast agreement, perhaps because good friday makes it sound too holy or reverential. But whatever you call it, for many, the agreement is, of course, synonymous with peace. Today, the Irish Government called those who questioned it reckless. The british said they stand by it steadfastly. So what is going on . Our political editor, nick watt, reports. Yes, 71. 12 . The british people have spoken, and the answer is we are out. They were seismic votes changing the intertwined history of these islands, and the legacy of those referendums, nearly two decades apart, are haunting the politics of today. Remain supporters dream of keeping the uk in the eu, and now some unionist supporters believe the time has come to revisit the good friday agreement after last weeks failure to restore power sharing. I think the word refresh of the good friday agreement, or the belfast agreement, as i would call it, is actually quite important, because time changes lots and lots of things, and of course what we are seeing under direct rule, we have that space to look at it. We cant have a situation where there are two parties in mandatory coalition and one can always pull the plug and say we are walking away, and then they dont go back in until they get some new demands. Today, the government made clear it stands foursquare behind the agreement. As the house will recognise, this april marks the anniversary of the historic belfast agreement. That agreement, along with successors, has been fundamental in helping Northern Ireland moved forward from its violent past to a bright, more secure future, and this governments support for the agreements remain steadfast, as does the commitment to govern for everybody in Northern Ireland. There is fury in senior levels of government after some tories lent their weight to a rethink on the agreement. One minister said it would be the height of absurdity to make unilateral changes to the 1998 agreement. From the Prime Minister downwards, there is a determination to re establish all of its institutions by brokering a deal between the dup and sinn fein. But one of the original signatories to the good friday agreement says that government must act by introducing a short parliamentary bill to hand the powers vested in the Northern Ireland power sharing executive to its assembly. Instead ofjust going on with londons intervening from time to time to do things, but not having proper decisions made by people who have their roots in Northern Ireland and are accountable to the electorate, the only way we can proceed is by having a situation where the assembly can function without an executive. And i think that is possible, and it would be a way of avoiding the present impasse. A former Northern Ireland secretary who presided over changes to the good friday agreement a decade ago acknowledges that there is a precedent for amending the accord. But he warns that todays calls for change, mainly from brexit supporters, could have grave consequences. There is no question that these brextremists, in their hard line support for a particular dogmatic position on brexit, are actually playing with fire, endangering the peace process, and they could incite dissident ira groups who are very well armed and have made attacks and killed people in recent years, although they are very isolated and marginalised at the moment, it could incite greater support for them and a greater threat from them. I dont think theres any threat, any long term threat to what we agreed 20 years ago. And i dont think theres any chance of there being a breakdown and a return to violence. Sinn fein agrees that dissident republicans pose no threat to the peace process, but the party warns of the dangers of challenging the good friday agreement. These interventions represent nothing more than a wreckers charter, and in fact the very wrong headed and irresponsible nature of the interventions at this particular point in time, in fact, exaggerate the extent of the political crisis that we are living through. The good friday agreement has been under relentless push back from sections of political unionism from when it was first signed. Referendums are meant to settle political disputes for a generation from the good friday agreement to brexit, we are learning that to some they are not the final word. Nick watt reporting. I am nowjoined from dublin by the minister for European Affairs in the Irish Government, helen mcentee. Good evening to you, thanks forjoining us. What is your reaction to this debate that has cropped up in this country over the last few days . Well, what i would welcome, firstly, is comments by Karen Bradley and other members of the British Government, who have very clearly said that the good friday agreement is the only way to move forward and is essentially the only show in town. The good friday agreement is an International Peace treaty and has been for the last 20 years the only way that every political voice, every political view and expression has been heard and can be heard, and i think for any suggestions that have been made that it is past its sell by date, that it is no longer of use, i would ask those people to maybe reflect on what things were like 20 years ago, before the agreement was in place. So i welcome confirmation from the British Government that it is the only way forward, and the Irish Government are saying the same. Lets break this down what would happen if the British Government did unilaterally change aspects of the good friday agreement in an attempt to make it work better, for example . What actually happens if it does do that . Well, i mean, the good frida agreement is an International Peace treaty, a young treaty, and you would be essentially changing the way in which citizens north and south, east and west work with each other, engage with each other, and what we have seen over the past 20 years is that we have been able to work together, parties in the north have been able to work in a power sharing executive. Yes, we have hit a bump in the road, but that has not been we need to completely change path, itjust means we need to work together, and that is our focus, the irishs government focus to work with everyone to make sure that those elements of the agreement can be upheld. Obviously, we cant go on forever pretending that the agreement is working if it is not delivering an assembly or an executive in Northern Ireland that is operating. How long would you give it before everybody has to sit down and think again . It has been, what, 13 months now. Do you go on and on saying, lets try . Well, i mean, ithink it is disappointing that we are over one year on and that we dont have an executive, and last weeks events were obviously of concern, but there are a number of mechanisms through which we can work on what is happening, the executive being the most important one, but we also have areas of cooperation, the North South Ministerial Council and the British Irish Council, and we need to make sure, in the absence of a functioning executive, that they are given the power and ability to uphold the elements of the agreement. You have said something very important sorry to interrupt, something very important is that your backstop, substitute for the working of the executive and the assembly . Your substitute is joint sovereignty of the republic and the uk over Northern Ireland . Is that what you want to see if the parties in the north dont get together . Well, what we want to see is an executive functioning in the north, and what we will do is work with the British Government. I understand that, but what is your plan b . To make sure those mechanisms are in place, the North South Ministerial Council and the British Irish Council are already there, already functioning, and in the absence of an executive, we need to make sure that we are working to the best of our ability. I understand your focus, i understand that getting it to work, yeah, yeah. But what about plans to reform how Northern Ireland works . You could say that he would move to the welsh model, the assembly chooses the executive, you dont enshrine in an International Peace treaty, you know, a coalition that will permanently operate between the two sides, you say, we will let the assembly pick it. If they cant get it together, would you be open to the idea ofjoint talks, not unilateral, where that was the kind of thing on the table . The good friday agreement has, i think, the full support of the Northern Ireland citizens, and also citizens in the republic as well, and we heard the statistics at the beginning of the show, over 71 of people overwhelmingly voted in favour of this process, this mechanism, joint power and cooperation, and in the south those figures bring it up to 94 . So the idea of trying to amend something that has worked very successfully, as i said, yes, we have hit a bump in the road, yes, there are challenges notjust in Northern Ireland, but obviously with brexit, and we are dealing with those, but i think the good friday agreement is something that we need to work with. Helen mcentee, that point you have made very clearly, thanks so much forjoining us. Now, nick wattjoins me with news of further ructions in the tory ranks this evening over brexit. What has been happening . I was talking to a remain member of the cabinet this afternoon, who was very cheerful after the speech by david davis, when he said the uk would not have a race to the bottom with the eu, but then this letter from 62 members of the eurosceptic group was leaked to sam coates of the times, and this makes clear that they take a much more restrictive view of what the implementation, the transition period would look like. A harder line than david davis was saying . They are essentially saying to the Prime Minister, be very careful, dont go too far in what you concede. I have been talking to sources in that European Research group, and they are saying there are hundreds of us, that is the message to number ten, so you better watch out. But interestingly, they say their real target is not theresa may, it is the cabinet secretary, and the uks chief negotiator. They are concerned that they are going to lay down what they regard as tricks, so that in 13 months time, when we are out of the eu, our hands can be restricted. Briefly, what about labour . Has the language changed, inching towards a clear position about being in out of the Customs Union . Jeremy corbyn said that the uk would have to be in a Customs Union with the eu, that would be important to sort out the Northern Ireland border, so not the Customs Union. Labour says they cant be in that because you have to respect the result of the referendum, but the reason they say a Customs Union and not in the Single Market is that you dont have the regulatory requirements of the European Court ofjustice. Every day, more names are brought forward in the campaign against inappropriate behaviour, of all kinds, at work. The Charity Sector is feeling the heat at the moment, and today the pm programme on radio 4 revealed allegations of inappropriate behaviour against the former ceo of save the children uk, justin forsyth. Now, although you may not have heard of him, mr forsyth is a important player in International Aid charities. He was a close associate of brendan cox, both of them were at save the children, and both also worked for gordon brown at number 10. When mr brown was caught on mic referring to Gillian Duffy as a bigoted woman, he was talking tojustin forsyth. The new accusation is that while running save the children before 2015, there were three separate complaints of inappropriate behaviour towards female members of staff by him, sending a series of inappropriate texts, commenting on how they looked, and prompting them to respond. Mr forsyth left and has since gone on to one of the most senior posts at unicef, the un childrens fund. He admits to having made some personal mistakes during his time at save the children, specifically admitting to what he described as unsuitable and thoughtless conversations with colleagues, which he subsequently apologised for. He added that there were no formal complaints, and that they were dealt with through mediation. Save the children told us that they were commissioning a root and branch review of its organisational culture, and that they apologised for any pain these matters had caused. To reflect on all of this i have the labour mp peter carlin, a man who himself has worked in International Aid crisis charities. Do you think thatjustin forsyth should be working for unicef in a senior role . There are questions about that right now. The important thing is that unicef is in touch with save the children, unicef said there doing that. I do not know the details of this but it is clear that that needs to be looked at in light of these revelations. Unicef have said they are aware of the media reports and welcome the decision of us to forsyth to come forward and acknowledge past mistakes and that they are discussing this with him and with unicef and save the children. Not physical accusations in this case, but the sheer volume of things coming out about the Charity Sector must be damaging it. Of course and we know it is. But some of these accusations are grotesque and from very senior managers, that is the thing that is most shocking. It is clear that in some of these organisations there is the sense that protection of a moral organisation is more important that individuals working in it. Youve seen the same thing in the church, and the bbc. Some people feel organisations are so morally important and significant that covering up things within the organisation is worthwhile and a means to an end. Weve seen that in the Charity Sector recently and it needs to be busted. Just culturally i wonder whether part of the interest in this, it is organisations that seem to be on the high moral ground being brought down by personal foibles and inappropriate behaviour of the people within them. I wonder if that is feeding some of the interest. No doubt. It is quite right to hold people in the charitable sector to a higher standard than perhaps others. We do have High Expectations of people doing this moral work. British aid works, the people working in the front line, the vast majority are Extraordinary People who put themselves into harm. We had four aid workers killed last week. So people are doing some extraordinary work. But i have been a front line aid worker as well and ive seen the work that does not meet the moral standards we would expect from organisations. Sexually . In almost ten years doing this work i never saw anything that was criminal or even a whisper of some of the things that are being revealed now. But i did see work that was overly territorial, culturally inappropriate for the kind of work they were doing and some of that morally indefensible. One example i could give you if we have time. I was doing some work, asking for assistance from a british nato general. He told me he had put up the order to stop working as well known, Large International charity based in the uk because he had offered work and had refused and the reason given was they had a lot of money given to that organisation from british donors and by law that money must be spent within that country. And that charity did not want to be in that country for a long time so they literally were squandering money. I have been saying this stuff for a long time and now i have the platform as an mp, people are listening more. This goes well beyond the Sexual Harassment and exploitation customer the aid industry has become very competitive and that tipped over to becoming territorial and further to being secret. So when bad things happen, whether work that does not go right, whether a member of staff not performing right or some of the really dangerous stuff we have heard recently, then the instinct is to hide it. So there is a link between these different things. Culturally we need to look at the aid industry, do the investigations and the enquiries as the Charity Commission is doing now and also have a root and branch think about how we use these big aid agencies. The behaviour that we incentivise from aid agencies. And get off a lot better at getting the right people into the rightjobs on a front line. And if they do not perform we have to get them of there. A lot is happening in syria right now a war that is, if it was possible, ever more brutal and ever more complicated. There has been a tragic intensification of the bombardment of Eastern Ghouta, outside damascus. Huge numbers of deaths in the last couple of days. More on that in a few minutes, but lets hear more about the other development first. Because today, in a sign of the messiness of the coalitions fighting with or against each other, the Syrian Government found itself fighting the turks, in order to defend Kurdish Forces who have been fighting the Syrian Government. 0ur diplomatic editor, mark urban, is with me now. To me this just seems very peculiar. What has been happening . Well the bigger narrative is that since Islamic State so called was defeated in the east of syria, Additional Forces have been available and are focused on three places. Idlib in the north, ghouta and another area where the incident was going on today, between syria and turkish forces, in afrin. The town is that a key point on the turkish border. Kurdish forces are there. They said they are the pkk, the same people who have been mounting attacks in turkey over many years and they have gone in there to sort them out. The kurds in afrin have always had an ambiguous relationship with the damascus government certainly in recent years. In times they appeared to be in opposition to them but in general they seem to have some de facto agreements. Now the damascus government is siding with them and trying to protect them from this turkish attack. Does it look betterfor some kind of peace that these former enemies and can now sit down and talk . No, is the short answer because they always had this de facto corporative relationship. This particular area of the kurdish resistance. And you have the americans bordering on the area, the iranians and russians also involved. It is a dangerous situation in the north of syria. Well going back to the issue of Eastern Ghouta. Mark has been looking at how it is receiving such treatment. Since sunday, theres been a sharp increase in Syrian Military attacks on ghouta dozens of airstrikes a day have been hitting the besieged enclave, and the death toll is now approaching 200 in those three days. For the quarter of a million or so people who live there, its been one of the worst times in more than six years of conflict. We are witnessing some of the worst fighting of the entire conflict and the widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure. Including medicalfacilities. Who has received reports of attacks on five hospitals in Eastern Ghouta and is working to verify these reports and the casualties. We continue to call for unimpeded access to Eastern Ghouta to provide medical supplies that will mean the difference between life and death for the very sick and injured and for the immediate evacuation of Urgent Medical cases. From the outset, geography defined the conflict in ghouta. Its location on the eastern outskirts of damascus made it easy for rebel groups to move to and from sunni dominated areas to the east and north. And government positions on mount qasioun, which is heavily fortified, in the al assad suburb, as the name suggests a regime stronghold, and in adra, site of another big army base, all helped to hem in the ghouta pocket and were used as launching spots for attacks on it. But those holding out inside have refused to capitulate. Just a few miles from central damascus, ghouta was the target of a chemical weapons attack in 2013 the aim then, according to the pentagon, was to follow up with infantry and storm the enclave. That attack failed. Tonight there are also reports of syrian troops moving to assault positions. Within the enclave are several thousand fighters from different groups. Jaish al islam a militant Islamist Group holds eastern and northern areas. Ahrar al sham, at one stage qatari backed and linked to the muslim brotherhood, a pocket in the west. And Faylaq Al Rahman is in the south theyre affiliated to the Turkish Backed free syrian army. At times these factions have clashed, but equally, none has been tempted by the assad governments offers to switch sides. Mark there. Now, earlier today we spoke to seraj mahmoud, a volunteer with the Syrian Civil Defence team, otherwise known as the white helmets. For the last 48 hours, seraj and his fellow volunteers have been recovering the dead and the injured sifting through the rubble. Earlier today, seraj told us he lost one of his colleagues in the bombardment and in the last a0 days his division lost four volunteers. He spoke to us from douma city in Eastern Ghouta, where he was seeking shelter from the ongoing bombardment. Testimony from the front line, there. Joining me now is geert cappelaere, unicefss regional director for the middle east and north africa. Thank you for coming in. How does Eastern Ghouta compared to some of the other names that have become grimly famous in this syrian war such as aleppo . The situation is comparable with what weve seen over the past seven years. Very comparable from the point of view of the children. Today once again dozens of children have been killed in Eastern Ghouta, several children have been killed in damascus. Children simply continue paying the highest price of a brutal war that is not of their making. A un envoy said it has the risk of becoming a second aleppo and he hopes we have learnt lessons from that. What lessons have we learnt from aleppo that we did not already know . It seems the world is powerless to do anything. One important Lesson Learned from eastern aleppo, is that no single party has at any moment put the protection of children at the core of their action. If we want to prevent bloodshed, further bloodshed of children, if we want to prevent thousands of children being maimed, then we need to learn the lessons and this time around put the protection of children of the core of everyones attention and action. Does that basically mean the people there surrendering, yielding to the Syrian Government . Because often it looks like they are going to, in the end, lose and there will be a lot of suffering in the meantime. There is an incredible suffering from childrens perspective. Again, we have seen, within Eastern Ghouta, over the last few months only, the number of children suffering from severe, acute malnutrition, life threatening malnutrition, the numbers have been increased by ten in a few months time, probably one of the best indicators to show, to tell the world how dire the situation of children is today. And with a very limited means for the international community, for the National Partners to provide the assistance, the much needed, urgently needed assistance to the children inside. But is there an option for them to surrender, and deep down is that what you would like them to do, just to stop the continual suffering of these young people . Because they are probably not. What is the point in hanging on in there if the Syrian Government will prevail anyway . From the childrens perspective, this war needs to stop. Children have suffered way too much already, and this is a call for all parties who are responsible for that endless childrens suffering. Thousands of children being killed, hundreds of thousands being maimed, close to 3 million children, syrian children, not able to attend regularly school. The levels of malnutrition, the children prevented from being children this needs to stop, all parties need to take their responsibility. Anyone with authority over the fighting parties need to take their responsibility. This cannot be accepted any longer. Geert cappelaere from unicef, thanks very much indeed, thanks. Last night, we heard the eloquent testimony of a chippendale male entertainer on the groping and grabbing that he puts up with from his mainly female audiences. He enjoys his job and was relaxed about most of it, knowing exactly what to expect its all part of the show. But among men who are not chippendales, but who do sell their looks, there is often a simmering annoyance with the unprofessional sexualised conduct that they face. Male models know its all about looking right for the part but do not expect to get work on the basis of their willingness to satisfy casting agents lust. Weve spoken to quite a number of male models and have collated some of the experiences theyve told us about. Some testimony from male models there. Reece sanders has worked internationally as a model. Hejoins me now. Good evening to you. Does everybody have tales like this, or is it a minority experience . I think people have been made to feel uncomfortable more than youd think in certain situations, but these tales are a minority amongst especially male models, which i can only speak on behalf of. What is the worst that has happened to you . What sort of things . Lines crossed in the sense of a stylist or someone, when dressing you, has gone a bit too far, tucking a shirt in, a bit too handsy, it is noticeable but they play it like it is nothing. There is this phrase, the front tuck what is that . That is when a stylist it doesnt have to be a stylist, anyone who is dressing you at the time is tucking the shirt in, they take advantage of that. What about photographs of you . You are getting changed, photographers are around, the making of the campaign, there are backup photographers . Is a lot of that inappropriate . I find the worst thing is, during fashion week, or when you are doing a show, for example, if you are backstage, there are a lot of photographers coming and going, and they are all licensed to be there, and you know, someone wants to take a photograph of you in your underwear and you are aware of it, you are selling your image, and if your image is your body, you might be fine with that. But if they are doing it without you knowing, even if you are ok with it, are you ok with having it done without your knowledge . What kind of photo is it . Where is it going . What was interesting, model two in that be said there is a relationship with the photographer, and it can be quite a sexualised relationship. Is that actually part of the sort of making the thing work, that there is flirtation or something going on with the photographer . Or can it be fairly anonymous and professional . We have heard stories from people, and with so many eyes being on fashion, at the end of the day, there are thousands of models working with thousands of photographers all over the industry, and people need to understand that the industry is not one company. It is thousands of Companies Making it up. If somebody leaves a shoot at the end of the day and they tweet or instagram, anything on social media, about how well the day has worked with hundreds of photographers, and i have stayed at their houses, their families have made me breakfast in the morning, we have had friendly relationships. No lines have been crossed, everything has been fine. But when it does get crossed, so many eyes are on the fashion industry that these are the stories that come to the surface, scum rises to the top, so we see the stories about people. But i am guessing that you and the other people on the fashion circuit, you all know who are the ones who are creepy and who are not. You are swapping stories the whole time . You do spend a lot of time incastings, you can spend hours waiting to see a client, and you swap stories with other models, someone who has been doing it for months or years, and we do hear about certain names of people and things come to light in the Mainstream Media as well, people that are doing this. So these are people we try to avoid anyway, and when you hear about these, from my personal experience, your agency will do anything to not put you with these. They will try and protect you. You can go into your agencies. That is nice. For myself, i have found that. What is striking, you were saying before you are 25, now getting to be considered quite late career. Correct, yeah. What are the age of your average model . It depends. For fashion week, they like a younger looking guy, so 16 19. Teenagers, who are really not going to be very experienced and how to handle all these situations. Exactly, so when i have been in these positions where the front tuck has gone too far, and i have not said anything because maybe i have not thought about it that way, but i should have said something at the time. There is a lot of young kids coming through, and ifeel that we need to make and safe. Im not saying it is extremely seedy, this is a minority of people, but if we can eradicate them and make it saferfor the next generation of models, that would be the dream, really. Thanks very much. That is all we have time for tonight. A very good night. Hello once again. Here we are almost done with a tuesday, and it looks as though we are entering into a fairly settled spell of weather for many parts of the british isles. If you wa nt parts of the british isles. If you want a very brief summary of what tomorrow may bring, bright or sunny, just depends on where you are going to spend the day. I pressure is trying to build in, and its doing a very good job of keeping atlantic fronts at bay. The last front we will probably see for a while is one that came through most areas within the past 2a hours, but thats having the past 2a hours, but thats having the life strangled out of it. Its not much more than a veil of cloud creeping across england and wales, but its quite important because it will keep the frost that bay from some parts of england and wales. That wont be the case for the greater part of scotland and ireland, where there will be some sharp fall, mr frost on the early pa rt sharp fall, mr frost on the early part of wednesday if you are on the move. Essentially a decent day. Maybe a passing shower across the south east. Temperatures in the range of seven to nine degrees. Cherish those because the temperatures are set to slide over the next few days or so. The cloud will dissipate as we move through wednesday onto thursday so the frost prospects are much wider spread as we start the new day on thursday. And we are beginning to show signs of wanting to join a pretty cold continent. Notice here the daytime maximum in moscow is around about minus ten. You might think thats an awfully long way away. Stay tuned because we are going to come back to that in just because we are going to come back to that injust a because we are going to come back to that in just a moment. Because we are going to come back to that injust a moment. Here is thursday. First signs of that continental influence with a strong easterly breeze knocking the temperatures that in the eastern coastal fringes and inland temperatures that in the eastern coastalfringes and inland parts, too. Four degrees, maybe a bit lower, in norwich. Here is friday, another dry day. Variable amounts of cloud, a frosty start, and temperatures at this stage, given we started the week tenderly ii, 12, four, five, six or seven degrees. Having got to those sort of levels, i think we are going to stabilise through the weekend. Still the High Pressure very much the dominant feature and the temperatures around the five or six degrees mark and a fairamount of the five or six degrees mark and a fair amount of frost as well, but if we go back to that situation with regard to moscow, this is the setup as we see it next week. We will be on the receiving end, we think, of the cold air streaming through siberia, through western russia, towards the british isles. This could be the scene that dominates as we get into the next week as temperatures tumble. This is newsday on the bbc. I am rico hizon in singapore. The headlines the un warns of a second aleppo activists say more than 200 are dead as syrian Government Forces attack the last rebel stronghold near damascus. There is no way to get out, nowhere to hide from that very massive shelling. As Florida Shooting survivors push for changes to gun laws, donald trump says hes willing to ban devices which turn rifles into rapid fire weapons. Iam sharanjit i am Sharanjit Leyl in london. Also in the programme thailands so called baby factory case