Not been abandoned. It is about liz30am. Now on bbc news, its hardtalk with stephen sackur. Welcome to hardtalk, i am stephen sackur. Rock music inhabits a world of permanent revolution. Todays Biggest Bands will most likely be tomorrows tired old has been. But just occasionally, artists and groups find a way of reinventing themselves and outlasting the co nsta nt themselves and outlasting the constant fluctuations in fashion and taste. Made yesterday knows plenty about surviving the highs and lows ofa about surviving the highs and lows of a music career, Brett Andersons band suede was how does the future of rock n roll back in the early 90s. They are still making music a generation after britpop ceased to bea thing. Generation after britpop ceased to be a thing. So what keeps him going . Brett anderson, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you very much. A pleasure to be here. Youve just thank you very much. A pleasure to be here. Youvejust written thank you very much. A pleasure to be here. Youve just written your second memoir which takes us right through your music career. And throughout it you appear to be almost painfully aware of the danger of being some sort of rock cliche. Would you say that is fair . Yeah, very much the starting point from the book was to sort of subvert the tired cliche of the sort of well travelled story we are aware of. I think every rock career is basically the same story. Its a story of struggle, success, access and disintegration, and then if you are lucky, you kind of arrive at a point of some sort of self reflection or awareness at what youve been through. But i wanted to write a story about good as that wasnt about the cliches, that was more about the cliches, that was more about the cliches, that was more about the kind of, an investigation into the machinery, the fame machine, the success machine, and what that does to people and what they did to me especially. Are you doing it out of a spirit of sort of regret, even resentment at that machinery and the way it used you . No, not at all. Im very aware the machinery is actually a moral, that it doesnt have an opinion, it doesnt have a consciousness. Its just something that happens to people. And the last thing i wanted to do with the book is sort of point fingers and blame anything, really, to be honest. You know, if there is any villain in the story, its myself, its my own kind of, ineptitude and my own, my own lack of understanding of how the machinery works. So its certainly not blaming anyone. Lets begin at the beginning. Because it is fascinating. In yourfirst the beginning. Because it is fascinating. In your first book, called blaak morning, you chose not to write about the music business at all, but Brett Andersons childhood, about being brought up in a relatively poor home. But in a relatively poor home. But in a relatively prosperous part of the south east of england. That sort of weird juxtaposition. It does seem that actually the relative poverty of your parents and your upbringing had a huge impact throughout your life . I was born into a sort of poor family, there was they were poor ina family, there was they were poor in a materialistic sense, but very rich culturally. My father was an obsessive Classical Music fan, obsessed with friends list. My mother was an artist. We lived in this council house, wed be listening to sort of wagner and stuff like that. There was always a feeling of outsiderdom. We didnt fit into the waiter, middle class world that my parents aspirations seem to covertly aimed toward. Was that way you were so desperate to get away and make it as a rock n roll star at an early age . Fear of poverty is a huge motivator. Fear of poverty is a huge motivator. Fear of poverty continues to be the reason why i carry on doing this. But the ability to express yourself. Maybe you saw yourself in bog music because it was than in the mid late 80s pop music, you saw a space you could occupy. Yeah, i think i saw a space. I looked at the rock world and it didnt seem to me that anyone was really speaking about their lives. It seems to me they were speaking about what i would call rock speak. They were talking in terms of rock cliches. They were, you know, it was, it was songs about elevating ones souls and phrases that seep into the rock lack sonography. If i may, and phrases that seep into the rock lack sonography. Ifi may, also, interestingly, a lot of musicians in the uk were looking to america for their inspiration. You absolutely never wanted to do that from the very beginning. I wanted to write about the world i saw around me, whichjust happens about the world i saw around me, which just happens to be about the world i saw around me, whichjust happens to be england. It happens to be london, it happened to be kind of a very sort of marginal, sort of disaffected sort of side of early 90s london, we were living on the dole, all these sorts of things. I wanted to write about that well because that was the world that was real to me. I didnt want to write about kind of, you know, some imaginary sort of fantasy of california or anything like that. Your problem was that it was tapping a vein of personal experience which a vein of personal experience which a lot of people didnt seem very interested in. I mean spent years on the circuit, pubs and clubs in london in the mid 80s, early 90s, not really getting anywhere. At one point you say, and this an anecdote, in south london we played to one person. Yes, absolutely. Butl in south london we played to one person. Yes, absolutely. But i think as an artist you need to go through that period of struggle because you are kind of, you are sort of finding out who you are. And youre also like the mahoning your craft as well. But bands that get picked up too early in their career and have a hit early or Something Like that, they are given enough time to develop and grow and suede very much at that time to develop and grow because we were incredibly unfashionable. And also, we werent very good as well. Laughter you say we were actually pretty terrible. Was not the only guy that was good, the guy you hired to be lead guitar, bernard. Is the only proper musician in the band, bernard. Ineptitude, there is nothing kind of, people are fearful of ineptitude and i think you said inafunny of ineptitude and i think you said in a funny sort of way embrace it. It helps you learn and im glad that we spent three years playing rubber songs to two people in pubs because it sort of gave us a bit of character rubbish songs, and find out who we were. Letsjust play a clip of you guys in that magic year when you broke through in 1993 playing the truck so young. Lets have a look. The truck. so young plays ido i do love watching you watching you, it is sorta fascinating. I do love watching you watching you, it is sorta fascinatinglj i do love watching you watching you, it is sorta fascinating. I dont know what was going with my hair there. I hadnt was that for four weeks. I did want to ask you, you projected an image, which i think was very deliberately androgynous to an extent. It certainly wasnt matching the sort of macho stereotype of most rock n roll lead singers. No. And you talked a lot about sexuality and some of your songs dealt with the darker sides of sex. What were you trying to do with your sexuality and your songs about sexuality . Yeah well, first of all, i think good pop music has always had a strong sexual side. You know, my favourite pop songs and favourite rock songs, there is always a kind of like a murky sort of pay out big sort of side to them. But secondly, i think sort of side to them. But secondly, ithinki sort of side to them. But secondly, i think i was trying to, even though the phrase didnt exist then, there was a sort of sexual fluidity that i was a sort of sexual fluidity that i was going to express priapic sort of side to them. Coming forward to the generation we have today, it is absolutely prevalent. But it looks backin absolutely prevalent. But it looks back ina absolutely prevalent. But it looks back in a sense, a bit like david bowen. Does in a sense, but i wasnt trying to. I think that is more of a kind of androgyny that was never there. And suddenly, i wasnt trying to lie, i wasnt trying to parody those things. I think people sort of tended to misinterpret it out the time. There was a kind development of sexual fluidity, with some kind of sexual fluidity, with some kind of proud that the bad song about in those days that the band. There was a strong side of ladism that led through the 90s, especially 1994, through the 90s, especially 1994, through corporatania and those sorts of things. You were associated, called the pioneer of britpop. Along came 0asis called the pioneer of britpop. Along came oasis and blur. Do you mind being associated with those things . No one likes being labelled, it limits you. Someone else telling you what you are. I think every artist likes to think they are bigger than that, i suppose. I suppose it goes back to the beginning of this conversation. The machinery behind the music industry, in a sense you we re the music industry, in a sense you were being packaged as part of a sort of young generation of dynamic and energetic bands who are going to sweep the world with the School British pop music. Yeah was that i dissociated myself from that very early on, though. As soon as i saw what i saw as becoming this kind of lattes jingoistic kind of cartoon, which became britpop, i very quickly distanced suede from that. This kind of laddish. Was there singing plumbers . Well, i might have said that years ago, i am not going to sort of try and justify things they set a long, long time ago. I think, you know, didnt make us look snobby . Probably. You may make some m ista kes snobby . Probably. You may make some mistakes along the way, im not perfect. You know what i mean . You just go with your instincts. And i saw what was happening with britpop and for me it felt quite distasteful. It felt nationalistic, it felt like there was a sort of strong thread of misogyny, i didnt think suede should be a part of that. I fear you have found it quite difficult to talk about the internal dynamics of the band because it is physically say that bands they get Great Success then start inviting and theres all sorts of tensions in the fall apart. But the truth is suede had its share. Yeah, absolutely and as we referred to, probably the best musician in the group, butler left having delivered an ultimatum to you others that he wa nted an ultimatum to you others that he wanted to control the band and you wouldnt have that. Your girlfriend left even earlier, justine, she was an integral part of the first wave of suede. Yes. It sort of like a maximum intensity family, living in a band . Yeah, you are absolutely right. The parallel is a family where you are incredibly close to these people and you span an intense amount of time with them doesnt expand, and you get to know them with a depth that you can only equate with how you get to know your family. You spend a lot of downtime with them, which is a really key thing. You know, you spend a lot of time hanging around, sitting around, smoking, these sorts of things. Yeah, it does become like an extension of the family and lots of ways. But youre right, all of the cliches but youre right, all of the thatis that is a band when you first start, that is a band when you first start, that youre very aware of, you think we are going to fall into the trap because were better than that. Spinal tap, the absurdity of that. But then again, i always think i dont give myself too hard a time about that because its life. Well, eve ryo ne about that because its life. Well, everyone knows that people kind of like split up and get depressed and all of these traps that you fall into when life stops but everyone it doesnt mean people stop, do they . It still happens. Its part of human nature. Its like human nature, but kind of magnified. Are just a point where you and bernard found it so difficult to be in the same room at the same time that you can be in the same studio together, you would be literally posting because thats to each other. Yeah, it got kind of, you know, sticky, for a while. But the relationships break down, and its what happens with bands and people. I think the thing is to remember is that this happened when we were in our you know, early, that this happened when we were in ouryou know, early, mid 20s, in those days you dont have the kind of, you dont have the social skills of, you dont have the social skills of the kind of life skills to deal with that. Your young man, thrown into this sort of cauldron of kind of success, ambition, money, all of these beings are thrown at you. It makes you, it makes you kind of erratic. It makes you imbalance. And you certainly dont have the life skills to be able to deal with it. And grief. Im guessing, i dont know how expose you been about this, but im guessing, well busily when just in left, but also bernard, there must be grief when you lose a ben may just in. There must be grief when you lose a ben may just in. Yes. It has happened to me several times. Very close members of my band that have left. It is a terrible thing to overcome. As a young man you left. It is a terrible thing to overcome. As a young man you kind of areas and deal with it in your own way. Its only now, being able to write this book, im able to look at these relationships, kind of clear eyed,in these relationships, kind of clear eyed, ina these relationships, kind of clear eyed, in a more objective way that you realise how effective you are by the separation. Lets be honest, you made things worse for yourself, or more difficult, in those respects, they also turning to drugs in a very big way. Again, without wishing to indulge in all the sort of rock cliches of talking to rock musicians about their drug habits, you are very frank about the degree to which you got stuck in a spiral. Absolutely. Is addict the right word for what you were . I suppose so. It is difficult to say. Thats getting technical, i suppose. Again, with great frankness you have written about the moment which was the very worst of this. I think it was in 1999 when you and your girlfriend we re 1999 when you and your girlfriend were having a binge. Yes. And she. Was this with crack cocaine . Yeah. And she nearly died. Yeah. It was terrific for supper try not to glorify anything, but im kind of clear eyed about it it was horrific for everybody. Im trying not to romanticise it in my own way, but i suppose by virtue of the fact that im talking about im romanticising it in some way. That im talking about im romanticising it in some waym doesnt come across that way. It comes across as profoundly painful ina way comes across as profoundly painful in a way that is still with you. And a kind of regret that period deeply for supper at i think it led to, looking at an overview of the band, it kind of destroyed the band. It is what led to us eventually splitting up. I think, what led to us eventually splitting up. Ithink, most what led to us eventually splitting up. I think, most relevantly, what led to us eventually splitting up. Ithink, most relevantly, it led toa up. Ithink, most relevantly, it led to a dearth of ideas, because thats what drugs will do to you. Addiction aside and all of these sorts of things, these things that grab the headlines, as a songwriter you kind of, you dont care about anything else except the substance that you are chasing. So your songwriting, your writing becomes secondary. I became the kind of. They started writing. Eye drifted into a period of self parody as a writer. And they really regret that. That had effects that led onto us splitting up, i think. Interestingly, if we then moved forward a bit, that level of regret any feeling that you had missed out on years of creativity with people that you cared about, was that a big driving force in making you decide that a reunion, which again is a bit of a rock cliche, was actually something worth trying, because you felt you hadnt finished you could have achieved . Thats exactly it. There was a sense that suede split up on a kind of bum note. That we finished before we should have done and that we didnt, we didnt sort of explode in this kind of riot of glory. We finished ona kind of riot of glory. We finished on a bit ofa kind of riot of glory. We finished on a bit of a whimper. I think one of the motivating reasons, the main motivating reasons to re form, was because we had unfinished business. Lets look at a second clip. This fascinates me, this idea that you can find new ways of telling stories that you told before in your 20s but then you come back to the stories in your 40s. Lets look at the royal albert hall, a famous suede concert, i think the first from your reunion tour. Lets look at that. Music plays. Its electric, actually, watching that. Thanks. It was a really special night. And whenever people ask me of my favourite gig of my whole career, actually imagine that one. Because theres something really special about that. We didnt quite know how it would be received and had been away for such a long time. It is a risk. Just like putting your albums out is a risk, because the critics are going to be tempted to say, here you are, milking it for another payday, going through the same old routine. The paydays arent quite as big as they used to be in the old days, eye can assure you of that. What gets me is the level of energy, you feel from that, you cant fake it. And yet im just wondering if you, as an artist, really wa nt just wondering if you, as an artist, really want to keep touring, keep doing, that was animal night raid, one of your most successful songs, keep wheeling out the old songs, when you are clearly focused on writing new stuff nitrate. When you are clearly focused on writing new stuff nitrate. The only reason uncomfortable with playing old songs is because we still write new music. Can be one of these bands that is sort of a nostalgia act and goes through the hits. We spent the last eight years making new albums and making kind of like increasingly strange left Field Records that we absolutely love and i feel it sort ofjustifies us carrying on. If we are looking forward we can look back at the same time. I think, maybe in forward we can look back at the same time. Ithink, maybe in the forward we can look back at the same time. I think, maybe in the book, cant remember, read it somewhere, you said my muses for writing used to be lovers, friends, the things overseeing around me, today, you say, primarily its my son, and 0wa now that shes a musical writing . think that you always, im always looking for. There is a sort of co re looking for. There is a sort of core of Human Emotions that youre a lwa ys core of Human Emotions that youre always writing about them i think. Im always writing about kind of paranoia and fear and passion and all the sorts of things, loneliness, sadness. All youre doing is an artist is your clothing them differently. When it was a young man i was sort of writing at these things from a different angle. I was writing about living my life is a dissolute young man on the margins in 90s london. And now im writing from a different perspective. Im a married man, im a father. A rather comfortable middle a