Such spiritual significance. But quite a lot of hill fog down towards the south west of the uk in the mild air. Now on bbc news its hardtalk with stephen sackur. Lets focus in on the rain, though, and these totals youre seeing here are some of the higher totals we may see in the Higher Ground a foundation in our move forward. This is the briefing. Welcome to hardtalk. In the moors of south west england, im victoria fritz. Our top story im stephen sackur. The welsh hills and pennines. Armenia is a small state lower levels wont see as much borisjohnson tries again with outside strategic significance as this, but with that much rain to secure a new election, as eu ambassadors meet to discuss in a caucasus region beset falling for some, the potential for some flooding and perhaps another possible brexit delay. With tension and hostility. Some travel disruption. There are some met office tens of thousands of people last year, popular protests yellow warnings in force, are forced to leave their homes, delivered a so called details at the website. As wildfires rage through velvet revolution which saw so again, the possibility a new government of seeing some disruption, installed in yerevan especially to travel as we go californias wine country. Into the start of the weekend. And this is how we start saturday. Amid ambitious talk of reform. Post mortem examinations are to begin on the 39 people away from the area of rain my guest is the foreign overnight into saturday, who died in a shipping some clearer skies elsewhere minister in that government, in Northern Ireland and scotland, container bound for britain. Still a few showers, and of course maybe a touch is it a bird . Is it a plane . Zohrab mnatsakanyan. Is armenia looking east of frost too. No, its an air taxi, or west for political and economic inspiration . Coming soon to town near you or is it . The rain does eventually move south on saturday, away from the wettest parts of england and wales, well explain in the to give a wet afternoon business briefing. Towards east anglia and south east england. Elsewhere, brighter skies developing for many, with a few showers around, and the cold air pushing further southwards, still there in the far south east by the end of the afternoon. Through saturday night and into sunday, get rid of this front, get rid of the rain. The blue is in charge. The cold air has won the battle. Its not going to be bitterly cold, and as you can see from this, on sunday, a lot of land showing up. Zohrab mnatsakanyan, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. That means its clear. A bit of patchy cloud, last year saw Major Political but quite a bit of sunshine coming through on sunday. Upheaval in your country armenia, still a few showers dotted about, the so called velvet revolution, more especially into scotland. After which you and your its still quite breezy out there. Government claimed that so yes, temperatures are coming down. 00 02 27,110 2147483051 37 58,271 but by sunday, for many, 2147483051 37 58,271 4294966103 13 29,430 its drier and sunnier. You were working for a new armenia. Sceptics will say it looks very much like the old armenia. So, whats different . Why would they say that . Because, for example, you were an official for many, many years, under previous regimes. You are a man of great governmental experience, you are not a new broom at all. I made a choice of my own, i made a choice to move from a diplomatic career to a politics thats the major change. I took up the responsibility to share with the government in which i am and this is a major change. The government has received a huge mandate from the people, from the public, as a result of the revolution. We have reacted, the government has reacted to those popular demands and received a strong mandate to deliver the change. The change and we have demonstrated the strong power of political will, in which, with political will, you can deliver very quickly results which were stemming from the popular demand. And those concerned corruption, those concerned fair, equal opportunities for all in social and economic life. Those concerned the fair elections, and the biggest challenge we have today is the judicial reform. Those are the various issues its onlyjust a short list of the various other issues that the government has been addressing. And you claim that work is being done very quickly, but we had yourjustice minister just the other day, mr hovhannisyan, announcing that the new agency to discover and investigate corruption crimes the so called Anti Corruption committee wont be operational until 2021. Absolutely, you know. We are in 2019 thats why i was talking about about the power of political will. We absolutely understand that, with political will, you can deliver results but that is not sufficient. You have to institutionally consolidate the system, which can react to those phenomena. Does it take two years to set up a committee . No, no, no, this is something rather more complicated and more complex. You are working on Institutional Capacity, Institutional Capacity to address the phenomenon of corruption, and that is something more serious and, in fact, we are working on this notjust within the country, but also with our international partners, specifically the regional partners, the European Union, the council of europe, others are very important. Youre talking about the future but there is a hubris in your government youre talking about the future but there is some hubris in your government because the Prime Minister, mr pashinyan, told european meps not so long ago and this is a direct quote, we have managed to root out systemic corruption, he said, but that is patently not true. Why not . Well, for example, only a few weeks after he said it, there were serious accusations put at the door of the head of the Anti Corruption agency, the man that the Prime Minister himself had appointed. It did raise some very significant questions about whether the Prime Minister is really across whats happening in terms of official corruption. No, no, i do not know what you are referring to. But. As i am saying, within the country, within months, we have been capable to deliver a strong message that there will be no more suitcases carried to the powerhouse, there will be no more. You mean, suitcases full of money . Yes, there will be no more. Because that has been happening a long time in your country. No more unfair conditions in the economic social field, no more of this phenomena and this has been addressed head on. But you are saying you do not know what i am talking about, but mr sanasaryan, who is a close associate of the Prime Minister was put in charge of the state controlled service, the current anti corru ption agency, and now he is facing charges himself. When the armenian people see this unfold, how can they have confidence. The system has been reacting. But my point is, that the Prime Minister assured europe that he rooted out systemic corruption before the latest round of allegation. The Prime Minister, the Prime Minister lets not make it sort of simplistic. As i am saying, Institutional Capacity has to be in place. Institutional capacity is our biggest challenge and the biggest priority today, to institutionally consolidate what we want to achieve in the country, what we have been delivering on the mandate of the people which has brought this government in power, thats our biggest challenge. Will the rule of law come out on top . This is what we are absolutely aiming at. This is our mandate. There is no other priority for the government but exactly to deliver on those specific priorities rule of law, independence, impartiality of the judiciary, creating a condition within which we can achieve that necessary level of reasonable trust in thejudiciary. And you say it is about institution building, you say it will take some time. I understand that anybody would understand that. In the meantime, we look at other signals to suggest theres real change as a result of the velvet revolution. One arena in which we must look for change is the state of the stalemated conflict between your country and neighbouring azerbaijan, over the disputed territory of Nagorno Karabakh. Ive seen no evidence that your government has brought new ideas, new imagination, to this conflict. Thank you. Look, when we achieved our objectives with the revolution, there was a question about what our foreign priorities. OurForeign Policy priorities have been quite constant. This is about sustaining the National Security architecture within armenia. Nagorno karabakh is a huge security challenge to armenia, to our people. For us, this is a question for, first of all, a question of security of our compatriots, security of the human, of 150,000 compatriots. And we have engaged, our government has engaged without hesitation immediately in the process, and we have engaged in a constructive way. Were absolutely cognisa nt of the benefits of peace. We want peace, want to achieve that, but we want to do it in a way which sustains the reasonable parity of commitment of the parties so that we do address in a reasonable way, we do address our ultimate priorities of security and status for the people of Nagorno Karabakh. You tell me, minister, you want peace. Well, explain to me then why in august, just a few months ago, the Prime Minister made a very high profile speech in which he declared, in no uncertain terms, karabakh is armenia period. Right. And he wants peace . He does want peace because the Prime Minister of armenia has been saying that the solution that we have to achieve has to be acceptable to the people of armenia, to the people of Nagorno Karabakh, and the people of azerbaijan. We are waiting. Given international law. We are waiting from azerbaijan a signal, a message which refers to the interest to our interest, which refers to our concerns which refers to the concerns of security of the people of Nagorno Karabakh. They have been refusing to do that. I have to be honest with you, when a Prime Minister declares karabakh is armenia period, when he knows that flies in the face of international law, the position of the un and all of the independent international agencies, i am struggling to see how that is a move, a gesture towards peace. Particularly when he also followed up by leading the crowd, during that particular speech, with chants of unification, nationalist slogans that had been heard in the 80s and 90s during the war with azerbaijan. And youre telling me this is a Prime Minister that is devoted to making peace . No, i am telling you that because the armenian agenda, the pan armenian agenda concerns Nagorno Karabakh. Armenia is following, is pursuing a development agenda, agenda of consolidation, and it doesnt leave out the people nagorno. That is a pan armenian agenda. We are a nation which is within a territory of the republic of armenia but a nation of a Global Nature everywhere and. But you have to recognise international law, dont you . Within that, Nagorno Karabakh is a land with our compatriots. We havent been claiming. 0h, theres no question that armenian people live on that territory, but that territory is not armenian. No, no, no, what im saying is that Nagorno Karabakh is a territory in which our compatriots live. A territory in which we care about their security. We are the sole guarantors of their security. But we are committed to the Peace Process committed to the Peace Process in which the security and the status of Nagorno Karabakh are ultimate priorities, and we are committed to the Peace Process. We have not been detracting from the Peace Process in any way. Your closest military allies hang on, minister, let mejust ask you a question your closest military allies in many ways are the russians. They have a military base on your territory, youve worked with them for a long, long time. Sergey lavrov, the Russian Foreign minister, after this rather extraordinary statement by your Prime Ministerjust a couple of months ago, said, the sides are making statements serious ones. Statements are heard that karabakh is armenia. He said, it is the same as if the Prime Minister of albania said from tirana that kosovo is albania. So, even the russians are now saying your position is unacceptable. I have to repeat again, the Prime Minister of armenia has been consistently and consistently insisting that we need a message a message of compromise from azerbaijan. But yours wasnt a message of compromise. Hang on, hang on, we havent been hearing. When the Prime Minister of armenia went out insisting that the solution should be acceptable to all the people, the people of armenia, the people of azerbaijan, and people of Nagorno Karabakh, he has been receiving a lot of criticism. 0ur government has been receiving a lot of criticism on that but we insist on that. We insist that compromise is the way out. The compromise in which there is a parity of commitment. I guess compromise. Hang on, hang on. In that same speech he has been referring to the solution of the Nagorno Karabakh within a separate paragraph in which he was quite consistent quite consistent with our approach on a compromise based solution of the Nagorno Karabakh. Just a couple more things on this vexed issue of the conflict which of course began in the 80s and hasnt been solved. It seems to me it needs imagination to get out of the stalemate. Are you prepared to be imaginative and, in the spirit of reconciliation, to acknowledge that over the last 20 years or more, the Armenian Military has been responsible for very serious abuses . The United Nations has concluded that, the European Court of human rights has concluded that, independent groups Like Amnesty International have talked about the abuses of your armed forces. If you want to change the dynamic with this new government, are you prepared to say that, yes, we have been responsible for serious abuses in the past . You are twisting a little bit the narrative. The armenian. The state of armenia, happens to be the only guarantor of the security. Please answer my question, minister. Thats what im doing. We are the only guarantors. What we have is the security arrangement for the people of Nagorno Karabakh, we have been responsible for that, we bear that security guarantee, the role of security guarantor. And we have been engaged in negotiations in a way that we work out the parameters. With respect, youre not answering my question. I will try one more time. The Human Rights Watch report into the conflict, a big report 1995. It said, armenian forces, with the support of the republic of armenia, were responsible for the majority of abuses during that period of war. And, as recently as 2017, the European Court of human rights delivered 12judgements concerning armenia. 11 found the country in violation of the European Convention of human rights. So all im asking is whether you are you prepared to say, in the past, mistakes were made, abuses happened, and that you, as well as azerbaijan, need to express regret for that and try to seek a solution . That is part of moving forward, that is true. But, at the moment, we also have to figure out the way in which we can address our biggest priority, the security of our people. You do now express regret for some of the things your military did in the past . You know, at the beginning of the 90s, there was a situation when 40 of the population of Nagorno Karabakh has been wiped out, 40 of the territory of Nagorno Karabakh has been taken control of. There have been abuses, there have been violations in a most outrageous way. We have a situation. Let me finish. When the government of azerbaijan has gone so far as glorifying a murder of an armenian. Not long ago, there was a situation where, in april 2016, azerbaijan attempted again an aggression against Nagorno Karabakh. That only amplifies our sense of security. Now, referring to your specific question, yes, iaccept that we need to move forward, all together, all of us, but it takes two to tango. It takes every party to engage in a constructive way. This is why the Prime Minister was saying a solution which is acceptable to all and we are waiting for the message from azerbaijan to reciprocate so that that spirit does get a foundation in our move forward. A final question on this and then i want to move on. But on the 17th of october, the azeri government accused Armenian Armed forces of having violated the ceasefire across the line of contact between the two forces 20 times. No. Is it possible that there could be a new surge of military conflict . This is what we are focused. And i think, you know, over this time since our government stepped in. And thats another