Transcripts For BBCNEWS Victoria Derbyshire 20240713

If youre putting yourself forward as a candidate for our parliament, youre essentially saying to the public, im a fine upstanding member of society and i will represent you asa of society and i will represent you as a constituent in an honest manner, and i dont think that he has been honest. Mr cairns resignation is one of several key moments during the first week of the general Election Campaign. Well be looking back at some of the others. The woman who sold her nans jewellery to meet the demands of a man she met on a dating app. We speak to the victims of a man who conned 19 women out of £24,000. After us rapper ti revealed he sends his 18 year old daughter for a yearly virginity test, were told exclusively that the practice goes on underground here in the uk. Hello, welcome to the programme. Were live until 11 this morning. Do get in touch on all the stories were talking about. Use victorialive. If youre emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. If you text, youll be charged at the Standard Network rate. First, Annita Mcveigh has the news. Joanna, good morning, thank you very much. Good morning, everyone. The Environment Agency has issued five severe flood warnings on the river don in south yorkshire, meaning theres a risk to life. More than 110 flood warnings are in place across the north of england, following hours of torrential rain. A Major Incident has been declared in sheffield, where the river don has burst its banks. In rotherham, residents have been told to only leave their homes if its absolutely essential. These people were unable to get home last night. I went to leave at 4 40pm, out into the staff car park, it took me an hour and a half and i came back into meadowhall. My concern is the children, Walking Around in pyjamas, because they have come to the concert and not been able to get home. Londons delayed East West Railway crossrail will not open next year. Its the latest setback to the project which has cost £20 billion so far. Mark wild, chief executive of crossrail, has insisted services would begin as soon as practically possible in 2021. It was initially due to be completed in december last year, but this date was missed due to a series of problems. Labour is promising to extend statutory maternity pay to a full year and increase the entitlement to flexible working. The party says it wants to deliver a workplace revolution, with greater powers to fine businesses that fail to tackle the gender pay gap. The employers organisation, the cbi, said it supports the extension of maternity pay but thinks some of the other proposals are too bureaucratic. The conservatives have unveiled plans for a new fast track visa for foreign doctors and nurses who want to work in the nhs. Under the scheme, decisions on visas would be made within two weeks and the cost would be halved. The plans do not cover social care, where Staff Shortages are the most acute. The snp will launch its Election Campaign later by promising to bring forward legislation to protect the nhs from privatisation and future trade deals. The nhs protection bill would block any uk government from using the nhs as a bargaining chip in trade talks. If passed, it would also give devolved parliaments in scotland, wales and Northern Ireland a veto on any deal. A World War Two d day veteran who has been raising money for a memorial on the normandy beaches has been given a glimpse of the work going on to buid it. Harry billinge, whos 93, was shown work going on to build the monument on gold beach in normandy on the bbc this morning. He was just 18 years old in 191m and serving with the royal engineers when he was part of the first wave on gold beach. And if the cold never bothered you anyway, youll be as excited as these frozen fanatics about the hollywood premiere of the hotly awaited sequel to one of the biggest animations of all time. Thousands of fans gathered in los angeles for the premiere of the highly anticipated frozen 2. The movie, featuring elsa, anna and 0laf the snowman is released here later this month. That is eight for the new summary, back to you now, joanna. Severe weather warnings meaning there is a danger to life are in place across large parts of Northern England after hours of torrential rain. There has been flooding, mudslides and serious disruption to roads and trains, more than 110 flood warnings are in place. In sheffield, there has been major flooding overnight near the river don, and dozens of people have spent the night at the citys meadowhall shopping centre, having been left stranded when the surrounding roads flooded. Shoppers reportedly bought pyjamas and blankets from primark to keep comfy. In rotherham, the river don has reached its highest recorded level, and the towns train station, rotherham central, was among the places which experienced flooding. And this morning boats have also been used in rotherham to rescue people from the water. There were similar scenes in worksop in nottinghamshire, which also suffered flooding, with the local fire service tweeting this image of teams using boats to evacuate people from their homes near the town centre. Doncaster is expected to be among the worst hit places this morning and the local council has told to residents near St Oswald Church in kirk sandall to evacuate their homes as the river has burst its banks. The Environment Agency has issued five severe flood warnings, the highest level, which means there is a potential danger to life at several other locations along the river don near doncaster. Maureen parkers house isjust beyond the river don at barnby dun in doncaster and has been put on evacuation notice by the council. We can talk to her now, thank you, what is it like where you are . Well, we arejust down, what is it like where you are . Well, we are just down, about two miles from barnby dun, the bridges are closed, and everybody isjust playing the waiting game, really. We are hoping that it is going to start going down, it goes down very quickly, but it is. It isjust. The unknown, isnt it . Am i so what are you doing . I said that you have been a notice for evacuation, at what point do you decide that you have to leave . Well, the council came around this morning at seven oclock and told us to prepare to leave, making sure we took medication and our pets with us. They said they would come back to help us to evacuate and give us instructions when and if necessary. How far away, sorry, is the water from your house at the moment . Our houseis from your house at the moment . Our house is about 60 foot from the canal, and then there is the river bank between our canal and the river don, so probably about 80 feet. And how easy will it be for you to evacuate if it gets any closer . Very easy. We are quite a way from the canal, so we would leave by the front and just get everything in the carand go. Front and just get everything in the car and go. How do you feel about the prospect of having to leave . Would you rather stay put . We have lived here for 20 years, and we have had these situations before, and tha nkfully had these situations before, and thankfully we have never had to evacuate. In the river has actually been higher than what it is at the moment. So we are hoping that, with the next tide, that will take the river down, because the river don is tidal, so hopefully it will go down again. I mean, you said, obviously, it isa again. I mean, you said, obviously, it is a fair distance from your house at the moment what is the worst Case Scenario house at the moment what is the worst Case Scenario that you are potentially braced for . Well, the worst Case Scenario, we would go upstairs, we have got a three story cottage, and we would go to the top floor. Keep ourselves safe, that is oui floor. Keep ourselves safe, that is our priority. And make sure that other people are safe if we can. Look after our neighbours, we have some elderly people in the community, just making sure that everybody is ok. How are you making sure you keep contact . Mobile phones. Quite a Good Support Network . We always have had, we keep one anothers phones for holidays and things like that, so we do keep in regular contact with people. And has your house actually been flooded before . No, never. We have been very lucky. It must be quite stressful, though, living by that water and having this warning out, speaking of a danger, danger to life, and i know that has been going on for some time with the river there, that the levels have been hard, because we have had so much rain over the past fortnight also. Well, we have never had a red macro evacuation warning before, so that was a little bit more concerning. My husband hasjust gone up to have a look at the river now, to see how things are going, so we just keep now, to see how things are going, so wejust keep a now, to see how things are going, so we just keep a check on everything and keep safe. More rain, thank you very much, i hope it is all right for you there, thank you forjoining us. For you there, thank you forjoining us. We can also talk to churchwarden liz from barnby dun near doncaster, where river levels are rising near to the church. Thank you forjoining us, what is the situation where you are . Will we are quite a long way away from the church at the moment, the river is pouring off the river don, iam the river is pouring off the river don, i am sort of on the northside here, really, it has got worse in the 20 minutes to half an hour that i have been here, there is more coming of, cattle normally cross around these banks, but the water is pouring off wider and wider, there is no grass to stop it, and it is just pouring down, flooding the land below. How far is the water currently from the church . I know you said you are a bit away from the church. Well, as far away as the river is at the moment, apart from this that is lending down below, but the land where it is running down to is quite a lot lower than the church is. Oh, how far is it . I have got a neighbour who lives in the old vicarage, how far away from the church here, garth . 200 yards . 400 yards. , he thinks about 200 yards. We are looking at pictures more generally of the flooding, and some of it is absolutely horrendous, and obviously it came so fast. How concerned are you . Currently, i. I am not over concerned at the moment. What the problem with the. Yes, yes, yes, there are some ditches around here, and they are very full at the moment. If the river gets as far as them, then they will go over the banks, and it will be into the village and into the church. It has not been flooded since the 1930s, has the church, we are just hoping it wont be flooded today well, to stay in touch, thank you very much for joining stay in touch, thank you very much forjoining us, stay in touch, thank you very much for joining us, and stay in touch, thank you very much forjoining us, and you can see all the latest details on the flooding on the website. Still to come, the woman who sold her nans jewellery to pay the bribes of a man she met on a dating app. We speak to the victims of a man who conned 19 women out of £24,000. Well look at the controversy over virginity testing, after the american rapper ti said he sends his 18 year old daughter for a yearly hymen check to ensure she is still a virgin. What you think about that . Let us know. For political parties, Election Campaigns are always meticulously planned affairs. But more often than not, those plans are thrown into complete disarray by unexpected events. And its fair to say that there has been a fair few of those for both main parties this week. For the conservatives, the most signiciant was the resignation of cabinet minister alun cairns following revelations that he knew about a former aides role in the collapse of a rape trial. He had previously claimed to have no knowledge of it. But how big an effect has the controversy had on the ground, and what do voters think it says about the conservative party . 0ur reporterjim reed went to mr cairns constituency, the vale of glamorgan in south wales, to find out its not where we wanted to be, i dont think. Where did you want to be . To have brexit sorted out by now. Yeah, who do you trust . Theres not really anybody that stands out now as being trustworthy. People just generally think these people are all the same. The town of barry on the south coast of wales is good at picking winners. Voters in their seat have elected the Winning Party in every general election since 1983. I think we need to have a decision about brexit and then decide on the important issues for this country, which is the nhs, which is schools. Do you live in this constituency . I do, i do. And i know about alun cairns. Im going to ask you about your local mp. The conservative alun cairns has been the mp here for nine years and hes in the cabinet as welsh minister. That was until this week. The welsh secretary, alan cairns, resigned over his links to a man whod sabotaged a rape trial. Mr cairns himself denies any wrongdoing. He believes that the inquiry into his conduct will clear his name. Alun cairns resignation from the cabinet could be important to the conservatives for a number of reasons. First of all, theres the national picture. But then theres what happens at a local level. And the conservatives have been hoping to win eight, nine seats from labour, just in wales. And in a tight contest like this one, negative headlines like that could be decisive. A lot of people are really disillusioned with just politics in general and want quite a big change. So when you hear reports, allegations that mps have, you know, in some way misled, that all feeds into that, does it, for you . Definitely. But i think it says a lot that it doesnt surprise me. I think that it doesnt surprise a lot of people. Itjust gives you very little options on who to vote for, i think. Alun cairns resigned after he endorsed a male colleague who, its alleged, sabotaged a rape trial. The mp said he was completely unaware of the details of the case at the time, but this week the bbc revealed he was sent an e mail about it by a senior aide last year. We spoke to one local resident who says shes a survivor of abuse. She thinks he should no longer be a conservative candidate in the general election. If youre putting yourself forward as a candidate for our parliament, youre essentially saying to the public, im a fine, upstanding member of society and i will represent you as a constituent in an honest manner. And i dont think that he has been honest. And think thats too much of an aberration for him then to be able to say, and i can represent you, particularly represent women and victims of crime. Is that the kind of thing you can apologise about and move on . No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Theres not a way back from that. Alun cairns, who still intends to stand for the conservatives in the vale of glamorgan, denies any wrongdoing. He says hes confident he will be cleared of breaching the ministerial code. At the nearby conservative club, people wouldnt speak on camera, but as you might expect, there was still strong support for the mp. Others we spoke to who said they will not vote for him this year accept he does have a reputation as an effective local campaigner. Im not sure. I think hes been a good mp for us, and i think its significant, what he has done. He says hes not guilty, but time will tell. I think its significant because its such a narrow majority. Actually, one year we had 17 between the conservatives and labour. Can i ask why you cant make your mind up . Whos it between at the moment . Im basically a labour or plaid cymru voter. With labour now, youve got all the kerfuffle going on. It is very difficult to work out whos actually telling the truth, i suppose. I think labours gone too far left. I think the conservatives have gone far too much right. And im a moderate, and i dont like this extremism thats gone on. I think i could say a lot more but i dont think. I think thats enough. Plenty of others here, of course, might disagree with that opinion. The only thing near certain is that next month the results in the seat of the now former welsh secretary will be very closely watched. In addition to mr cairns, the following candidates are also standing in the vale of glamorgan. Sally stephenson, welsh liberal democrats. Belinda loveluck edwards, welsh labour. Ianjohnson, plaid cymru. The close of nominations is 14th november. Alun cairns resignation as welsh secretary was just one in a number of standout moments during the first week of the general Election Campaign. In an unexpected move, tom watson stepped down as deputy leader of labour, whilst two former labour mps urged people to not vote forJeremy Corbyn, and instead vote conservative. Jacob rees mogg was widely criticised for comments he made about the Grenfell Tower fire. This while the nhs and the economy became the main battlegrounds, with all of the main parties making billions of pounds of spending promises. And this morning two more candidates have stood down. The conservative candidate for broadland, nick conrad, has stepped aside after he suggested women should keep their knickers on to avoid rape and the labour candidate in clacton, gideon bull, over claims he called a jewish labour councillor a shylock. They say a week is a long time in politics, but a week is an even longer time when youre in the middle of an Election Campaign. With me to look back at the last seven days is the Political Writer and academic Maya Goodfellow and olivia utley, Deputy Editor at the article. Welcome, both of you, so much to choose from, what is your highlight . I think my highlight is seeing some of the main parties like the labour party ta ke of the main parties like the labour party take on Climate Change so seriously. You started this programme with the floods in yorkshire, and we know we can expect more of these extreme weather events being more likely with Climate Change, and so seeing them talking about investment in a way that would create jobs, having a about investment in a way that would createjobs, having a green about investment in a way that would create jobs, having a green economy, not relying on fossil fuels, there will be a lot of talk about brexit in this election, but one of the biggest issues is Climate Change, and it is very heartening to see one of the party is taking this very seriously, talking about changing our economy in a way that works for all of us. It is interesting that you pick out a policy area, not brexit, do you think that will be punching through to voters at home . I hope so, i think there will have to bea i hope so, i think there will have to be a lot of effort put into it, because whilst some of the stuff about going on in the parties matters about what these people are saying, and i think rightly stepping down, i think the policies really do matter. You know, who we elect is not just the matter. You know, who we elect is notjust the people who see through brexit, if there is not another election any time soon, there will bea election any time soon, there will be a government that oversees policies for the next five years, and we live in a country that is deeply unequal, that has high rates of poverty, and we need a government thatis of poverty, and we need a government that is going to take that seriously, invest and do something about that. Now seriously, invest and do something about that. Now i feel a bit shallow, because i was going for the funniest moment i really enjoyed tom watsons Resignation Letter to Jeremy Corbyn and Jeremy Corbyns response, this amazing sign off line, he says i hope the horseradish is that i gave you thrive. |j couldnt is that i gave you thrive. couldnt work out if that was a barber it was very difficult to work out, but i think they are both trying to act as if the resignation was not political at all, it is all about personal reasons, acting as though they are always good mates, which anyone who has been following tom watson for the last three years is obviously completely ludicrous, he has been desperate to getJeremy Corbyn out for years, he has been leading the labour moderates to oust corbyn. So this moment where they pretend they are best buddies, and watson pretending the timing of his resignation isjust watson pretending the timing of his resignation is just coincidental, just as the Labour Campaign is launched, ijust just as the Labour Campaign is launched, i just like just as the Labour Campaign is launched, ijust like that sort of veneer launched, ijust like that sort of veneer of civility over what was not a particularly civil row. Do you know the answer about the horseradish is . I cant see tom watson as a particular gardener, but maybe that is. More time for gardening coming up as he is not standing again what about the low lights . One of the big low lights has been Jacob Rees Moggs lights . One of the big low lights has beenJacob Rees Moggs comments about grenfell, which i think was a moment when the mask really slipped, the leading conservative, when he said these comments, basically implying that he would have the common sense to have left. That is your low point, isnt it . For slightly different reasons, i think he said it by accident, the way he said it, i think he was genuinely. His apology was very quick and contrite, and i think it was reasonable, but it is such a stupid thing to say. I think, if i had ithink, if i had been in i think, if i had been in that fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave a burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do, and it is such a tragedy that that didnt happen. You have both obviously got a different raid out of that, but how much impact do you think it is going to have on voters . Lam not think it is going to have on voters . I am not defending what he said at all, but i think it was clumsy rather than evil, what he said, just stupid. But i think that is actually the sort of thing that cuts through, exactly the sort of thing which really does matter. Some of these gaps will be forgotten, but when you have already got a reputation for being someone who is proudly rich, fairenough, but being someone who is proudly rich, fair enough, but proud of being rich can bleed into, you know, in your fortune and wealth in other peoples faces, and Jacob Rees Mogg has already come across like that, and saying something stupid, clumsy, whatever, i think that is the sort of thing which loses elections. I think the only hope for the conservatives is that it happened so early on that there are quite a few weeks to recover from it, and as we saw, the day after, tom watson standing down very dramatically, so labour have theirfair standing down very dramatically, so labour have their fair share of gaffes and scandals to come as well, it might all be forgotten. If this was the night before polling night, that could literally be an election loser. I dont see this as a gaffe, i see this as the mask slip in, and i dont see it as clumsy or evil. I see it as reflective of someone who was a member of the elite who has no idea how most people in this country live, doesnt really understand the difference between what it means to live in a council block, he has no real understanding of that, but i think also the kind of policies. This is not just think also the kind of policies. This is notjust about the individual, about Jacob Rees Mogg, it is about the fact that he is one of 72 landlords who voted against a policy that would make sure that landlords would have to make homes fit for human habitation, he voted against that. He has consistently voted against the interests of most people and for the interests of the elite, so i think this will cut through when the conservatives are trying to position themselves as the party of the people that will see through brexit, if you look at their broader socioeconomic passages over the last nine years, this really shows what they are about, and i think that is why this is such a bad move. What about that moment this week when ian austin is said to labour voters, a labour party sta lwa rts , labour voters, a labour party stalwarts, close with gordon brown, and he went on the radio and said, dont vote for the labour party, vote for the tories. It certainly isnt helpful, two things can exist in this moment at the same time, both chew, and one is that there is truth that the labour party has not dealt with claims of anti semitism well enough, they have not acted fast enough done enough, but i also think it is true that ian austin is someone think it is true that ian austin is someone the right of the party who was never going to be supportive of Jeremy Corbyn, so it is not helpful for someone who was a labour mp to say vote conservative, but it also needs to be recognised what is political positioning is more broadly, whilst not ignoring the other thing is that he is saying. What impact do you think it will have on voters, 0livia . What impact do you think it will have on voters, olivia . what impact do you think it will have on voters, olivia . I think this does come across incredibly badly, i think you say he is on the right of the party, but he has been a loyal labourmp foryears, the party, but he has been a loyal labour mp for years, close to gordon brown, so he is not a maverick labourmp, he has brown, so he is not a maverick labour mp, he has been critical of Jeremy Corbyn, but he has always been critical of Jeremy Corbyn because of anti semitism, and he resigned because of anti semitism, he didnt resign because he felt that the party was wearing too much to the left. It was a very specific criticism ofJeremy Corbyns anti semitism. I think Something Like that will play incredibly badly, people dont want a racist Prime Minister, and if a badly, people dont want a racist Prime Minister, and ifa labour mp saying dont vote for this man, he is incompetent and has been accused of racism and hasnt dealt with it properly, i think that will play badly as well stop but we are at the beginning of the campaign so. So much to pick up, another aspect that got a lot of coverage was the edited version of keir starmer on good morning britain, ithink version of keir starmer on good morning britain, i think we can take a look. Why would the eu give you a good deal if they know you are going to actively campaign against it . That is not actually what happened live on air, he did answer the question straightaway, James Cleverly was sent out to defend that and other things. I thought we were going to be able to hearJames Cleverly actually, but he was sent out to do the round of media interviews and. I mean, did he manage to put the case for it . Very difficult to defend that sort of thing, it has got to be seen in the context of. I think what that showed is that there needs to be a lot more discipline at cp hq. What i have heard is that it was someone pretty young, you know, straight out of uni in the Digital Department thinking it would be a funny thing to do, not realising the fight implication is that it would have and didnt understand what the consequences would be. James cleverly didnt say that, though, did he . He said it wasnt edited, it was shortened. He said it was funny, and that they put up the whole video as well, and James Cleverlys argument was this is just a funny version, everyone knew it was a funny version. Obviously, what he should have said is what i am saying is that it was just someone who, you know, it wasnt from the top, this wasnt the Prime Minister thinking we should duct out labour videos, it was someone young and we should duct out labour videos, it was someone young and inexperienced you thought it would be a funny video full social media, and that sort of naivete is not ok in an Election Campaign, but naivete rather than deliberate doctoring. The gap that has been a number of things happening, this was incredibly unhelpful, it does feed into the fake news idea, and if they wa nted into the fake news idea, and if they wanted to attack the labour party, they should be doing it other things laboursing, they should be doing it other things labour sing, but the labour message is relatively clear on brexit, but the other thing is the news from the Advertising Standards Authority that the tories used taxpayer money to have ads about universal credit that made unsubstantiated claims, which to me basically beat us guys lighting is poor people who have had to experience the big problems of that roll out. Which to me basically reads as gas lighting poor people. But the tories promised 200,000 starter homes, and not a single one has been delivered, so this exist in a Broader Network where the tories are being held to account on some of the things they are saying and doing, and these things have not happened. I think youve got both sides playing pretty dirty. The labour party claim is giving lots of money to American Drug companies to buy drugs for the nhs because they want to solve the nhs, theres literally no evidence for this and the labour party has this enormous figure which keeps pushing out and theres literally no evidence for it at all. We are out of time, great to have you both here, thanks so much and we will see you through the next four weeks, im sure. The topic of virginity testing has sparked an International Debate after the american rapper t. I. Said he sends his 18 year old daughterfor a yearly hymen check to ensure she is still a virgin. Its a practice that is not commonly associated with the west but remains widespread in certain parts of the world. The World Health Organization has previously called for an end to what it describes as medically unnecessary, harmful and a violation of human rights. And the Victoria Derbyshire programme has been exclusively told it is still going on underground in the uk today. Lets talk to dr Meghan Campbell lecturer and Deputy Director of the oxford human rights hub, snow from south africa whose mum asked her if she wanted to have a virginity test age 15 but she refused, and natchi jolinkomo also from south africa but supports virginity testing and t. Is decision. 0k, welcome all of you and thank you for joining 0k, welcome all of you and thank you forjoining us. Snow, tell us what you think about ti. I think what he is doing is a gross violation of his daughter s rights. He needs to understand his daughter is human as much as she is a child and take a right into consideration. I think there is no dignity in your father taking your you think hes done the right thing, do you . Yes, absolutely. The right thing. Why . There is only one aspect that i dont agree with. He is taking his daughter to a male gynaecologist. Struggling to hear you, but ijust wa nt to struggling to hear you, but ijust want to try and establish a bit more about how and what you think about this. Snow was saying what about the human rights of his daughter, shes going off and having testing, shes also having to sign a medical waiver so also having to sign a medical waiver so her dad knows what the results are so so her dad knows what the results are so that doctors can speak to him about it, what about her human rights . I dont know how the methodology of the west about this practice but a method of doing it, i dont know how a male person, its not something that we do on this side. But talking about the dignity of the child. Its an agreement between the parent and the child to go between the parent and the child to go to do this virginity testing, if the child is fine with that, then they can go but at the child is not, its no. Snow, i said that you are askedif its no. Snow, i said that you are asked if you want to have a virginity test at the age of 15, was a completely virginity test at the age of 15, was a com pletely volu nta ry virginity test at the age of 15, was a completely voluntary for you . For me, it was. I think that is not the norm, usually when people are asked, when little girls are asked and they say no, they assume that they are no longer a virgin is first of all, and you know, to say that its controlled, is not true. Why were you asked, what would be the reason . The reason i was asked was because it was very commonplace, especially at the time that i was a teenager, for there to be a group in the township where i grew up, of girls who would go and test, thats why my mother asked me, because she wanted to know if it was something that i would like, i think thats why the reason i was asked because my mum had different beliefs to everyone else. Other people that i knew at the time were not asked, they were just told. That was 20 years ago. Is it still going on . How much is it happening, do you think . We have lost snow. Lets bring in doctor megan. Joining us here in the uk. Obviously, what ti megan. Joining us here in the uk. Obviously, what t has said has caused a lot of shock and outrage and it has shone a light on something that probably most of us werent even aware was happening, how widespread is this . Its difficult to know how prevalent virginity testing is as there is a lot of shame and stigma around the practice, its difficult to come forward to report its happened to you but we do know it is happening. All over the world. What about in the uk . There is evidence that its happening in the uk, the us, canada, switzerland, its not confined to any one part of the world but it is happening everywhere. So whats the evidence of whats happening in the uk . Its difficult to find the evidence, concrete, good data is again the uk, the practice is frowned upon succumbing forward is very difficult, you are going to be implicated, people often very close to you but we know there is some evidence it is happening. Obviously, it requires a doctor to do it. Are you saying nhs doctors are being asked to do this . Im not going that far at all. Its difficult, again, its difficult to know who is performing this, whats actually happening because there are no medical codes that prohibit virginity testing, prohibit disclosing confidential information but there is evidence from the World Health Organisation that it is happening in the uk. How is it done . Its to check that the hymen is intact, isnt it . There are a few different methodologies for performing a virginity testing, none of them are scientifically proven, they are not very good evidence if a person has had sexual intercourse with the scientific basis is very dubious and they are not medically necessary for any health reasons. Its not, a woman, girl, cant lose her hymen in many different ways, it doesnt have to be because of sexual intercourse. What is the value of the hymen testing . That is correct. You cannot prove that someone has had sexual intercourse just by looking at their hymen. There is a lot going on when the girls go to attend virginity testing, they go for sexual education, education around their sexuality. Its not something that they do in an hour, takes a long time, there is sexual education and all kinds of stuff involved. It helps, weve got a higher rate of rape to little girls and they dont report it, when the girls attend the virginity testing, that type of stuff, they are able to see. There is no stigma to the girls that consent to virginity testing because we know there are a lot of factors that can lead again to them losing their hymen. Its not i dont know if i am making things clear. Thank you to all my guests for joining clear. Thank you to all my guests forjoining us. Let us know your thoughts. The victims commissioner has said that dating apps should take more responsibility to verify users to help prevent romance fraud. Its after this programme spoke to two victims of a man named ivan nkazi who was jailed for conning 19 women out of £24,000 after meeting them online. One of the women chloe not her real name sold her nans jewellery to foot the bill of the fraud. The scammer had threatened to come to her house so she felt she had no other choice but to meet his demands simon 0leary reports he started to say that he was at my house. You better call me quick, im here. Nice house and nice steps. When that money is paid, we will be out of each others lives. If not, then things will get nasty. Unfortunately, these women didnt mean anything to him other than a source of income. And in one case, he unfortunately threatened to throw acid in their face if they didnt comply with his demands. I swear on my sons life, i wont be nice. You can ring the police, i dont give a bleep. I will make things dirty. You better ring me i know where you work. I will wait there till you come out to your work. Now the victims commissioner, dame vera baird, has told this programme that dating apps should take more responsibility to verify its users. Weve spoken to women who were scammed by ivan nkazi. He conned 19 women out of £24,000 after meeting them on dating apps. He was sentenced to three years in jail after pleading guilty to 11 counts of fraud and four counts of malicious communications. Well, ijust swiped right because he was good looking and we swapped numbers quite quick. He was just saying that i was looking forward to me, he didnt have many friends. You know, he had just moved to liverpool. But he made me feel like he was quite vulnerable. Ivan used the same story to start his scams. He would pretend he was at a petrol station before he even met the women and say there was an issue with payment for his fuel. He would claim the petrol station staff were racist and the police were en route. On the day of the date, i was in a lecture at uni and he rang me. I remember him saying they think just because, you know, im a big black man that im sort of a shady character. I now remember being like, well, thats not ok. I made the first transaction of money to him, and that was £70. So were on about probably the fifth phone call now, i get a call saying its not gone into my bank because charges have gone out and it wont clear. Then, i transferred him £200. So even when he asked for money, no alarm bells . No. After i transferred that final amount of money, i remember sitting back down in my lecture. I wasjust thinking, what on earth have you just done . It was like i was under a spell, like hypnotized for about half an hour. My mum contacted the police on my behalf. I was just too upset. I was even too embarrassed to ring the police. Another one of ivans 19 victims has agreed to speak to me. She ended up giving him almost £1600. She is concerned about his release from prison and also wants to hide her identity. Were calling her chloe. He played on the vulnerability elements because he knew i was looking for a loving, meaningful relationship. He suggested to me that he was as well. And i think, as a consequence of that, it made me want to help him more. And he used that to manipulate the situation much more. Ivan had been operating for almost four years. He was organised and ran his scams like a business. He used a detailed index system to keep track of the stories he told the women to ensure he never made a mistake. Chloe also met ivan through a dating app. He was using the fake name lancel. He used the same tactic and told her he was stuck at a petrol station. And in just one day, she gave him almost £600. After id sent the last 250, he asked for more again. I did say no i have no more to lend you, i cant. Im a single mother of two children, on my own. He was malicious, quite personal, hurtful. I lost touch with him for a couple of days. He did offer to give me the cash. And i would have to go to his house to get it, but because hed been so angry on the phone, i was frightened to go. But chloes scam didnt stop there. She received a random text from an unknown number. It was from a man named mala. The message was out of the blue and chloe was suspicious. He said, well, im. A celebritys brother and i didnt mean to get the wrong number, but im now intrigued by you. Then ijust said, look, ivejust been on a couple of dating sites, had a bad experience, lent a guy some money and it just didnt go well. He told me not to worry and that it would all be fine. Later on that evening, i had a message from lancel to say hed been beaten up. That three men had turned up at his house, caused damage to the property. Lancel blamed me for sharing that information with another guy, who was mallah, and little did i know at this point that it was all the same person. Ivan scammed chloe posing as two characters. Lancel, who she matched with on a dating app and mallah, who texted her from an unknown number. He was threatening to come to her house. So chloe felt she had no other choice but to meet his demands. So i lost my nan and shed left some jewellery to me it was gold and thats the only thing i had that i could sell. Chloe met up with ivan and pawned the jewellery for £600. She then borrowed another £400 to give to him, taking the total he scammed from her up to £1600. Message alerts beep. Within minutes, i had a barrage of Text Messages asking for more money, and that was when the really nasty threats started. I was frightened, genuinely shaking like a leaf. I was frightened of being in trouble with the police, which is what stopped me not telling them in the first place. Ivans been given a five year serious Crime Prevention order, which means that he cant use dating apps without letting the police know his usernames. Does that give you any comfort . No, none whatsoever. Hell pose as new people. As if that is going to stop him. Theres probably so many more women that havent come forward as well. Detective Sergeant Chris hawitt led the investigation into ivans scams. Do you think there could be more victims out there that havent come forward . I think its entirely possible. Unfortunately, this crime is one where often the victims can be embarrassed or ashamed. Its a particularly horrible crime because this crime is indiscriminate. It targeted women of all professions, all levels of education or backgrounds. The victims commissioner dame vera baird, has told this programme that dating apps should take more responsibility to verify users. She also said there should be a register of people whove been convicted of romance fraud. And that there should be a more targeted line of victim support provided. Ive spoken to five of the 19 women ivan met on dating apps and conned out of thousands of pounds. Many of them were vulnerable. Others simply thought that they were doing a good deed. But the impact of the scam has been long lasting. Hes left me with anxiety and worry. And it had such an impact on me that i had to take a six month study break from university. If he could describe my house, could he revisit it . He frightened me that much that im concerned about the future when hes released. And you can see that report again on our programme page. Foreign workers who want to move to britain and work for the nhs would be able to skip the visa queue and pay less to enter the country, under new plans announced today by the conservatives. They would also allow people to pay back the £400 a year Compulsory Health insurance more slowly. The tories are calling it the nhs visa, and say it will help to solve a shortage of doctors and nurses in the health service. But how significant would these changes really be and do they do anything to address the staffing problems in social care . Our reality check correspondent chris morris is here. So, whats the answer to those questions . Well, we know there are huge Staff Shortages in the nhs, 43,000 vacancies for nurses and the number coming from the eu has fallen dramatically since a brexit referendum. We do need to recruit nurses from elsewhere overseas. This new visa proposal would do is make it cheaper, the visa fee would be cut in half to £464 and as you say, newly recruited staff would also be able to pay their own Health Care Costs rather than paying it upfront, they would pay it as their salary came in and i think theres an argument for saying if we are that desperate to recruit people, why not make the visa free . Why cut it in half, why add to the bureaucracy and there are important caveats, a lot of doctors say its notjust about cost, its also about bureaucracy, sometimes it can take months for hospitals to sort out visas for people coming and if youve got a job that maybe you only need to fill for six months, its not a very good system in the second point, you mentioned social care. This scheme would not cover social care, care workers, social workers etc and there is also an acute staff shortage in the social care system, 8 of the total, getting on for one in ten which is about the nhs and this new nhs visa, and its obvious the tories would like to have a story about the nhs in the election which is positive for them, but it wouldnt cover social care. Which is positive for them, but it wouldnt cover social care. On to what the labour party is announcing today, finally friendly measures, what the details . A lot of it is about women in the workplace. Family friendly. They want to increase maternity pay, statutory maternity pay, at the moment new mothers get 90 of their average Weekly Earnings for six weeks. After that come up to a period of nine months they get just that come up to a period of nine months they getjust under a maximum of 150 quid. Labour wanted to increase that to a year, employers organisations the cbi say they think its not a bad idea, its worth putting into perspective some countries, in germany you get 42 weeks Maternity Leave. But its all at full pay, thats about ten months but all at full pay, a considerably better offer, the United States on the other hand there is no statutory Maternity Leave at all, so we are somewhere in the middle. I suppose the point is, the difficulty is for people, can they afford the longer period . One of the things the labour party is suggesting is they want to increase from nine months to a year at the potential to have shared pa rental leave, at the potential to have shared parental leave, so new fathers can share a new parenting responsibilities, that was a policy brought in by the coalition government, the conservatives and the lib dems. The problem with that is its difficult to get figures but it appears the uptake of shared pa rental leave it appears the uptake of shared parental leave is extremely low and party of course, people know when you have any baby, lots of expenses and so if there is not a significant pay offer attached to extended leave, its unclear how much difference its going to make. Chris, thank you. Lets bring you some comments coming in from you on the virginity testing. Victorian dad on twitter it says if the age of adulthood in that part of americas 18, i suggest this young lady get a lawyer and sue her father for whatever applied, disgusting, controlling weight to treat his daughter. Marina says more medieval male dominance over females, virginity testing is about control, control, control. Patricia says our boys ever checked or is it not even a question. Another reviewer says virginity testing was used by the state, the uk government in the 1970s, the rationale was to assess ifa 1970s, the rationale was to assess if a woman coming from the indian subcontinent to get married loss of sound. Who on earth thinks they have a right to check a daughter s hymen . Other mothers, is tantamount to abuse, coercion, billowing i hope like fgm we stand this out immediately. Thanks so much for your comments. When it comes to politics, are we becoming even more divided by age . The polls suggest in this election that age is one of the key factors in deciding who were going to vote for. Pollsters yougov found four in ten 18 29 year olds plan to vote labour, while four in ten 50 59 year old are voting tory. And the older you get the more pronounced the divisions. Become six in ten over 70s plan to back the conservatives, compared with just 16 of 18 24 year olds. Were going to speak now to three generations from the same family where divisions have been so bad politics talk was banned at the christmas table they are daughter izzy, whos a student and planning to vote tactically. Mum gretta a lib dem supporter who voted remain, and grandad paul a leaver and conservative voter. If welcome, you couldnt talk politics because it was so heated if thats still in force are you 0k here today to discuss it . You have got over it . Obviously we are in the thick of an Election Campaign, tell us thick of an Election Campaign, tell us each of you say that again. Youve received your orders . Are you following orders . Dont say anything because i know you want a poll to vote differently in the referendum. From how he did. Lets just run through how you were all voting this time. The general election. Izzy, who are you voting and why . I havent decided yet who im voting for, it will either be the labour party or the lib dems but i decided im going to vote for i am at University Rather than at home because thats quite a safe conservative seat. Yes. You are voting tactically. Definitely. To achieve the main thing im concerned about is brexit not happening. So im going to vote for the labour party of the lib dems because of that. Other issues, are they Cutting Three or is it that thats the main thing. Also im definitely going to take into consideration the nhs, policies about universities and stuff but brexit is the main thing. Greta, for you. For me, brexit is the main thing. Its difficult where we live because its always been a really strong conservative seats are you almost feel like its not worth voting because conservatives will always win but since the referendum ive actuallyjoined the lib dems in the first time in my life ive been a memberof the the first time in my life ive been a member of the lib dems and i will be voting lib dems sol a member of the lib dems and i will be voting lib dems so i really think brexit is not a good idea, although i respect everyone else 5 right to have a difference of opinion but i really dont think its the right thing for our country. And paul . Ill thing for our country. And paul . Ill be voting for whoever replaces the mpr constituency. Hes defected to the lib dems and you dont yet know who the tory candidate will be. Apparently, the candidate being announced today, but whoever it is i will vote for them. Whats your main issue, you voted to leave in the referendum and that was what triggered the family dispute . think we should leave, there shouldnt be any dispute about it, its quite plain, we had a referendum, the result was to come out and it hasnt been activated, has it . Is that your primary concern in this election . 0r has it . Is that your primary concern in this election . Or any other issues cutting through for you . There are other things. But that is the main thing is for us i am concerned, to carry out the wishes of the electorate, which was to come out of the eu. Why has it caused such family discord, izzy, this issue around remain and leave . think, my dad is italian. So, half of my family are immigrants, basically. And mums side isnt sol think it felt like quite a personal issue, especially for me. And yes, people obviously have really strong opinions on politics in general but especially about brexit. So have you had arguments between you and paul, between you and your grandfather . Never between me and granddad, its mainly been mum, ive tried to kind of come up whats the word mediate things a bit. We havent really had arguments, i think i feel strongly about brexit and dad does as well but weve never had a big falling out over it, so i really respect and i think hes entitled to vote and everyone is entitled to vote and everyone is entitled to vote how they want and i would never wa nt vote how they want and i would never want to fall out with anyone in my family over politics. So good to hear, thanks so much forjoining us, newsroom live coming up next. Have a great weekend. Good morning. Some parts of Northern England have woken up this morning to some flooded streets and some travel disruption, just like that scene, we saw this morning. But today, as you see from the skies above, much drier and sunnier conditions, the band of rain moving its way further south, still giving us some its way further south, still giving us some outbreaks of rain towards east anglia, the south east of england during this afternoon, showers moving into eastern england, elsewhere its dry, pride, sunshine, still quite chilly out there, maximum temperatures 7 9d. The night that band of rain clearing from the south east, for many of us clear skies and turning quite cold, widespread frost into saturday morning, temperatures down to 2, perhaps minor sport but its in the west that during saturday we see some rain, quite heavy moving through Northern Ireland, into wales, south west england, pivoting into the south east of england, a speu into the south east of england, a spell of snow over the Higher Ground of wales, southern part of the pennines, the hills of the midlands, further north and east it will be dry with sunshine and called for all of us. Youre watching bbc newsroom live, its 11 oclock. These are the main stories this morning torrential rain causes flooding, mudslides and travel disruption across large parts of Northern England. Many people were forced to evacuate their homes, others were stranded overnight in a shopping centre. Went to leave at 20 to five. went i went to leave at 20 to five. went 100 yards out of the staff car park, backing to the staff car park. It took me an error and i have to do so. The snp is about to launch its Election Campaign. Nicola sturgeons party vows to protect the nhs from featuring in any trade deal with america. Labour says itll promise a full year of maternity pay, while the conservatives pledge to attract more Foreign Workers to the nhs. Another delay for crossrail the firm thats building the railway say it will not open next year