And this picture is trending on bbc. Com. Its a picture taken by british woman kathy smith of all 17 of her pets all obediently facing the camera and keeping still. She says it took several days of trying to get the perfect portrait. Thats all. Stay with bbc world news. Now on bbc news, its time for hardtalk. drumming patients are dying, people are dying, the current my my guest is a prize winning author, but he was for a long time marooned in detention. Behrouz boochani in auckland new zealand, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you for having me. Its a pleasure to have you on the show, behrouz. I think we have to begin with the next nation of how you are in new zealand after this epic, very long journey, difficult journey that you have after this epic, very long journey, difficultjourney that you have been on. How come right now you are talking to me from auckland . On. How come right now you are talking to me from auckland . |j on. How come right now you are talking to me from auckland . I was invited by the world festival in christchurch in new zealand a few months ago, and then i applied to visa to my lawyer in new zealand and then so i did it through you ncr and Amnesty International and amnesty australia uncr, new zealand and finally i reached through to new zealand. But the interesting thing is that the most short way to new zealand was that i fly from port moresby, the capital city of Papua New Guinea to australia, then transit and fly to new zealand. But i was scared that if i did that they would deport me from australia. So thats why i flew to the philippines. I was in the philippines. I was in the philippines for 19 hours in transition, then flew to new zealand. Interesting that you didnt feel you could possibly take the risk of going into australia, even in transit, and you call it a long journey but it is nothing like the many years of journeying journey but it is nothing like the many years ofjourneying that journey but it is nothing like the many years of journeying that you have had to endure to get to where you are today. Let us go back in time to pick up this story when you we re time to pick up this story when you were still a young man in iran, of kurdish origin. You decided to get involved in activism, both political and cultural activism as a kurdish in around. What happened to you to make you feel you had to leave . In iran. Iwas make you feel you had to leave . In iran. I was born in war and i grew up in this kind of situation in iran. So, most of my life, when i became older, i was struggling just to educate the young generation and people who keep kurdish culture alive. So all of my activities ended up, and my journalism alive. So all of my activities ended up, and myjournalism works, so i was working as a freelance journalist in therese on, the capital city, and at the same time i was working in the city tehran. So my problems were happening through those activities. So finally, you know, some of my collea g u es finally, you know, some of my colleagues were arrested by the intelligence agencies and so that ended up in my, you know. intelligence agencies and so that ended up in my, you know. I had to leave iran. When you felt you had to flee because many of your friends had been arrested, you felt you were in grave danger, i wonder why you decided to go all of the way from iran to australia . Decided to go all of the way from iran to australia . The other side of the world. It would have been so much easier to perhaps aim to go into europe, why did you decide on australia . Actually, i didnt have time, soi australia . Actually, i didnt have time, so i had to leave right away, one of my friends introduced me to a person that i met in a park in tehran. He told me that the best way would be that he would send me to indonesia. So, if you feel unsafe in indonesia, then you can go to australia. So thats why, you know, ijust australia. So thats why, you know, i just followed him australia. So thats why, you know, ijust followed him and i didnt have choice, i didnt have time to make a decision. At that time in 2013 there was a well established people smuggling route from indonesia across the sea to australia. But it is extremely dangerous, the crossing. You, i believe, tried it twice. What happened to you when you tried in one of those refugee boats, to get to australia . In indonesia i was in a place called cali about a city, so i remember that some Immigration Police attacked the refugees. U nfortu nately Police Attacked the refugees. Unfortunately the police in indonesia attacked refugees and twice i witnessed that they deported many people back in kalibata city. So they didnt ask any questions. Thats why was really worried about my safety and i imagine if theyjust deported me back. So i went to, i decided to go back. So i went to, i decided to go back to australia. And after 48 hours are a boat our boat broke and they took me from the ocean and put me in prison. Then i escaped and began i went to australia by boat. So it was a really dangerous time. Are now looking at the past, i think, you know, sometimes i feel that it was work that really i had not needed to do that because it was so not needed to do that because it was so dangerous. But at that time, i just wanted to feel safety and find a safe place. Yeah. I know that you saw people who were on the boat with you drowned, actually, killed. You survived because you were picked out of the water but other people did not survive stop but then of course you ended up subject to the Australian Authorities decision not to allow you or indeed, any of the other boat people coming by boat. The Israeli Government decided not to allow you wants of the territory, but send you to manus island in Papua New Guinea. They set up two camps, one in manus island and one in the other islands of micronesia, nauru, and that is where all of these would be Asylum Seekers ended up these would be Asylum Seekers ended up after 2013. What were your feelings when you arrived in manus island . Use this word, i think we should make it clear, boat people, it is one of the main concept that the Australian Government is using for describing us, and they call us boat people, and you know, it is like a negative meaning in australian political context. So australian political context. So australia is using this word to create fear and people are scared of us. Create fear and people are scared of us. You know, i call this policy exiled policy, the Australian Government and the media called this specific solution. But for me, innocent people who arrive in australia by boat, it is an exile policy and i was exiled to manus island. On the way they did that, it was a big humiliation and deep humiliation. So of course i never forget that. I describe that in the book about how they were treating us. Book about how they were treating us. So, definitely, you know, it is like, i use another word, modern slavery, so i think we should understand this. Did you feel as though you are being treated as a prisoner . Because of course you had made the journey seeking safety, seeking asylum. But when you were in the hands of the Australian Authorities and then they sanchu to manus island, did you feel like somebody who was going to have an opportunity to explain your story or did you feel like a prisoner . Definitely. We were in a real prison and a place worse than a prison. And thats why irene aims that place in my works, my journalism thats why irene aims that place in my works, myjournalism works, as a prison why ivry named. Although i think a prison isnt enough word. It isnt the kind of word to describe that place. Because in prison, you know, they dont torture prisoners and also they send people to prison through a court process. But for us, just they took us from the water and exiled us to manus island, to that prison, and detained us. And they never asked us questions and they didnt send us to a court. And also they tortured us, you know. They tortured us for years and years and they put us through a systematic torture for the years, just to humiliate us and destroy us and take oui humiliate us and destroy us and take our identities. Now that im talking with you, you know, so far, 13 people died, and they can see killed by the system because of medical negligence, because of violence. And so negligence, because of violence. And soi negligence, because of violence. And so i think, for people who want to know, if they do research, small research, they can see what this story is and how the system works and what the Australian Government has done in manus island and nauru. And now in the time im talking with you. Behrouz, you make a very, very serious allegation thereby using the word torture. This, the Australian Government had a rationale for what they did. They said it was a deterrence policy. It was only by making it clear to the people smugglers and two the would be refugees that it was impossible for them to make it to australia and that they would end up in this very difficult situation in manus island 01 difficult situation in manus island or in our room, that was, according to the australians, the only way of deterring people from making this journey and many of them losing their lives, because we know more than 1000 people had lost their lives at sea. That was the australian justification. What do you say to that . You know, you cannot justify, you know, you say to that . You know, you cannotjustify, you know, this barbaric policy. You cannotjustify, you know, violations of human rights. And so what the Australian Government has done is not sending a message to people smugglers or people around the world dont come to our country by boat. They, in fa ct, to our country by boat. They, in fact, they are sending this message to their people, im into their supporters and people of australia. And we should never forget when we arrived on Christmas Island it was two months before the election, federal election, and the labor party introduced this policyjust because of the election and over the past six years the Australian Government have used us for political benefits and just that. Of course it was very difficult, almost impossible, forjournalists course it was very difficult, almost impossible, for journalists like course it was very difficult, almost impossible, forjournalists like me to get access to nauru or to manus island to see the conditions inside the camps where people like you were held. And lets not forget you are held. And lets not forget you are held there for pretty much six yea rs. Held there for pretty much six years. You tell me what conditions we re years. You tell me what conditions were like, because a very strong and the fact that of the dozen or so people who died in the camps, at least five of them, it seems, were suicides. So what was going on in the camps that left so many people so the camps that left so many people so desperate that some of them were taking their own lives was yellow just we should think about these, that how they exiled people, exiled innocent people to a remote prison ina innocent people to a remote prison in a Remote Island and keep them for more than six years. How they kept the children and the women in indefinite detention for years and yea rs indefinite detention for years and years and still justify that. Indefinite detention for years and years and stilljustify that. So the main concept is exile and also the main concept is exile and also the main thing is that, you know, time. You know, keeping people in limbo for yea rs you know, keeping people in limbo for years and years. So i think that is enough, you know, living in that condition in that situation is enough that we understand how this system is cruel. In another part we should look at the people who died, you know. 13 people died, you know, under this system. And hundreds of people are damaged. And we should look at the, you know, the reports by the respectful, the most respectful International Human rights organisations such as amnesty, such as, you know, human rights watch, and also unhcr. So it is illegal, what the Australian Government has done is illegal and also there is a court order that keeping people in that prison camp is illegal. What the Australian Government has done is a crime against humanity. And i say this strongly, and is not only me. Many people, many organisations say that. And i think the Australian Government has nothing to say in front of this. In 2015, think it was, you and a group of other people decided to stage a Hunger Strike to protest the conditions and, i believe, some of you sowed your lips together to refuse to eat. What was the response of the local staff let us the response of the local staff let us not forget these detention centres will actually run by people from Papua New Guinea . How did they treat you when you tried to protest . You know, before that Hunger Strike, after six months, there was a protest in manus island and the result of that protest was the authorities, the australian guards with the local people, they attacked us with the local people, they attacked us and they injured 100 people very seriously and they killed one. And after 18 months we did a big Hunger Strike, which i think was more than 800 people participating in that protest. So after 12 days they attacked us, because our protest was attacked us, because our protest was a peaceful protest, a completely peaceful protest. They came and arrested, you know, some of the refugees, because they say that you are leaders or. And they arrested. Or sent them to local prison. And they kept people there with local criminals days and days. Then they put people in solitary confinement and, again, another solitary confinement. I was therefore 40 days of. |j solitary confinement. I was therefore 40 days of. I want to ask you about something that strikes me as very, i think, ironic about your situation today. Im in London Holding a copy of your book no friend but the mountains. Its called the true story of a refugee. Its been a big success, this book, and is based on the Text Messages you are able to send to friends on a smuggled phone when you were still inside the detention centre. It is an extraordinary piece of work. The irony is it has been extremely well received in australia. You havejust w011 received in australia. You havejust won a major literary prize in australia with 125,000 won a major literary prize in australia with 125, 000 australian dollars. How do you feel about the fa ct dollars. How do you feel about the fact that your story, which is so negative about australia and the decisions taken by its government has now resulted in a book that the australian public is so eager to read . How do you feel about that . Before publishing this book i was, you know, ive published many journalism articles, opinion articles in australian media and international media. Then i made the movie with my colleague, which reached International Festivals such as the london film festival. Then the book was released. So before that i was known in australia. But the award, actually, brought to much attention to others of my work. One thing overlay to mention is that i should acknowledge a big part of Australian Society and Civil Society in australia to stand up for humanity and support of the refugees. So this recognition to my works, actually i understand it in this way. The Civil Society in australia, the Literature Community in australia actually resisted, in front of this system, because this, by this recognition, by giving this award, resisted in front of the system, because this policy had a negative impact on political culture in australia. Behrouz boochani, you know there are hundreds of thousands of desperate people in our world who feel they have to leave their homeland, just as you did, many because of fear of personal persecution. But clearly it isa personal persecution. But clearly it is a huge risk. You now are aware of the dangers and risks involved. What would your message be too desperate people around the world who are considering whether it is worth fleeing from their home countries . You know, people leave their countries because of discrimination, because of persecution, because of religious dictatorship, because of war. And i think that problem created by this system, this global system, and people, ithink superpowers should take some responsibility. So of course i have a message to people, the people just think about their safety, how cani just think about their safety, how can i send them a message, what can i say to them . You should be a refugee and understand what a refugee and understand what a refugee wants and why people leave their countries, you know . So thats why definitely, if i send them a message to not do that, its risky, i knew that it was risky, you know . Refugees know that. But they take that case and they do that because of safety. So of course, you know, my message, if i have a message, that message is not for the refugees. My message is to the superpowers, to the countries, to the politicians to take some responsibility and respect human rights and help people to find the shelter, help people to find safety and start a new life. So that is my message. My messages to the politicians, not to the refugees. Behrouz boochani, in auckland, i thank you very much indeed for being on hardtalk. Yeah, thank you. Hello there. We got quite a mixture of weather coming our way for wednesday. A stripe of weather is approaching that will bring some rain. Further east, though, are under the influence of High Pressure under the influence of High Pressure under england and, the sky is relatively clearer. If you are heading outside of the next few hours we have cloud and rain approaching. Further south and east with there are going to