Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240704

Team have changed, for example the Chief Executive of the Hospital Trust left, the Medical Director left, they both left in 2018. And so it is a new Management Team now, but they are left with the very difficult position of trying to justify what happened before they came into office. But it is the case that members of staff have told the bbc that when they tried to raise legitimate concerns about what was going on in the unit, they were ignored by management. So there are Big Questions to be answered, and i think it is inevitable, as i said, that people will be calling for a Public Inquiry into what has happened here. Are Public Inquiry into what has happened here. Public inquiry into what has happened here. Are there still lessons to happened here. Are there still lessons to be happened here. Are there still lessons to be learned happened here. Are there still lessons to be learned from happened here. Are there still| lessons to be learned from this because we have seen the trial and a lot of the filings have been talked about during that . What could a Public Inquiry hopefully achieve in terms of the way that hospitals, not just this hospital but hospitals up and down the country, potentially dealing with situations like this in the future . ~. , dealing with situations like this in the future . ~. ,. , the future . Well, that is an excellent the future . Well, that is an excellent point, the future . Well, that is an excellent point, but the future . Well, that is an | excellent point, but because the future . Well, that is an excellent point, but because of course we have faced situations like this, there was Beverley Callard in the 1990s, there was Harold Shipman in the early 2000, both of those led to inquiries into what happened, and they Harold Shipman inquiry was an extensive inquiry that led to some significant changes in the qualifications that doctors had to revalidate themselves every year, changes to the General Medical Council in the wake of the Harold Shipman trial and a Public Inquiry that followed, and yet here we are, 20 years later, facing similar awful, awful outcomes, when someone who was meant to be in one of the most caring professions has committed such appalling crimes. And i think people could legitimately ask what else would a Public Inquiry learn . Because we have tried to learn . Because we have tried to learn these lessons before when these horrible, horrible cases have happened in the past. In these horrible, horrible cases have happened in the past. Happened in the past. In terms of death we have happened in the past. In terms of death we have been happened in the past. In terms of death we have been talking, happened in the past. In terms of death we have been talking, dominic, about the length of time it took for all of these things to be put together, the fact that these babies were suffering from similar medical episode, that lucy letby was always on shift when it happened, our potential loopholes like that, do they still exist, have they been closed down, what does the system look like now . Im closed down, what does the system look like now . Closed down, what does the system look like now . Im not sure that the s stem look like now . Im not sure that the system has look like now . Im not sure that the system has changed look like now . Im not sure that the system has changed that look like now . Im not sure that the system has changed that much. Look like now . Im not sure that the system has changed that much. I i system has changed that much. I mean, we have heard calls from dr bale kirkup, who led the inquiry into baby deaths at Morecambe Bay and in east kent, we heard him say that there needs to be a much more rigorous focus on data so that when consultants for example, the consultants for example, the consultants here at the countess of chester, the paediatricians who tried to raise concerns, when they go to management, they have a rock solid data to back up their cases, Ratherthan Rock solid data to back up their cases, rather than a feeling that things were not right and that they did not have that sort of data, according to dr bale dr bill kirkup. Now he is very well respected, he said that work is beginning to happen but it is far from being rolled out right across the health service, so i think there are lessons to learn like that, for example, and perhaps the Warning Systems that could be put in place could be much more effective. Dominic, thank you, our Health Correspondent dominic hughes, he was outside the countess of Chester Hospital, and you heard that statement from the current Medical Director. Ijust want statement from the current Medical Director. I just want to show you these pictures that have been released by Cheshire Police following those verdicts today, and these are pictures of lucy letby being arrested by their offices. You can see as they arrive at her home, she opens the door, they are inside for a period of ten or 15 minutes, and then you can see as she is brought out and taken to a waiting police car. You can see the expression on her face police car. You can see the expression on herface in particular as she walks down the driveway, walks to the police car to be taken off for questioning. These are new pictures from offices body cameras that Cheshire Police have shared with the media at the conclusion of this trial. They have also talked about the interview process. Of course, as we were saying, this has been a nine month trial with thousands of pages of evidence, and around about 30 hours of interviews that were carried out between Police Detectives and lucy letby, and the police have also released this small clip, a very small part of one of those interviews. As we were saying, just a very small excerpt of one of the 30 hours or so of interviews that were carried out with lucy letby, but i think a crucial moment to see and to hear just there, because that was when she was being asked about problems in the hospital, the Mortality Rate, and as we have been sang, one of the things that first raised concerns was the increased Mortality Rate at the countess of Chester Hospital, which until lucy letby began working there in the Neonatal Unit, has been essentially an average number of child deaths in a unit like that, where you are dealing with the most premature babies, a certain number sadly do not survive, but they noticed in that particular unit, at the countess of Chester Hospital, that the number was far higher than it should have been. We saw her being asked about that, lucy letby acknowledging that the Nursing Staff were aware of that having happened, and it is something they had been talking about among themselves. And we heard through the trial from various colleagues of lucy letby, people who worked with her during the first time, reflecting on what a difficult time that was for all of them, because as those months passed, and as babies were having these unexplained medical episodes, some of them dying, some surviving but with life changing consequences. At that stage, nobody has yet identified the common factor that was lucy letby, that she was on shift, that she was treating and supposed to be caring for these babies as they were losing their lives, and the verdicts that we heard that have been reported today, because this has been an extremely long trial, and in fact these verdicts were released in several different hearings. The first happened last week, when lucy letby was first convicted, she was in the dock for the delivery of the first guilty verdicts, she sobbed, she lowered her head, she cried in the dockin lowered her head, she cried in the dock in the courtroom, but in fact when the later verdicts were delivered, she chose not to appear in the dock, and we believe that she will not do that on monday, when his sentences passed by mrjust discussed that she will exercise a right not to be there, not to face the families again. Mrjustice goss. We will bring you this interview now with dr stephen brearey, who led the team of seven consultants on the Neonatal Unit at the countess of Chester Hospital, who shared concerns about the deaths, he has been speaking to judith moritz. If we go back to the summer of 2015, when did you first become concerned . A review of the care of all three babies was done, and there was nothing in common that we could pain these three deaths on. But the static analysis to identify that lucy letby was on shift for those three episodes. find lucy letby was on shift for those three episodes. Lucy letby was on shift for those three episodes. And did that worry ou . Three episodes. And did that worry yon . Well. Three episodes. And did that worry yon . Well. I three episodes. And did that worry you . Well, ithink three episodes. And did that worry you . Well, i think i three episodes. And did that worry you . Well, i thinki can three episodes. And did that worry you . Well, i thinki can remember| you . Well, i thinki can remember sa inc, you . Well, i thinki can remember saying. On you . Well, i thinki can remember saying. On no. You . Well, i thinki can remember saying. On no. It you . Well, ithinki can remember saying, oh no, it cannot you . Well, i thinki can remember saying, oh no, it cannot be you . Well, i thinki can remember saying, oh no, it cannot be lucy, i saying, oh no, it cannot be lucy, nice lucy. Saying, oh no, it cannot be lucy, nice lucy saying, oh no, it cannot be lucy, nice lu. , nice lucy. Tell me about when you remember nice lucy. Tell me about when you remember first nice lucy. Tell me about when you remember first meeting nice lucy. Tell me about when you remember first meeting lucy nice lucy. Tell me about when you i remember first meeting lucy letby. I remember first meeting lucy letby. I do not recall the first time that i met lucy letby. She started work in 2012. She didnt strike me as too different to most nurses on the unit. , �. ,. ,. , unit. You didnt have any worries about her unit. You didnt have any worries about her doing unit. You didnt have any worries about her doing the unit. You didnt have any worries about her doing the job . Unit. You didnt have any worries about her doing the job . I unit. You didnt have any worries about her doing the job . I dontl about her doing the ob . I dont think anybody h about her doing the ob . I dont think anybody did. About her doing the job . I dont think anybody did. It about her doing the job . I dont think anybody did. It is about her doing the job . I dont i think anybody did. It is something that nobody really wants to consider, you know, that a member of staff might be harming the baby is under your care. Can staff might be harming the baby is under your care. Under your care. Can you give us a sense of what under your care. Can you give us a sense of what was under your care. Can you give us a sense of what was happening under your care. Can you give us a sense of what was happening in i under your care. Can you give us a. Sense of what was happening in the unit over the summer and autumn of 2015 in terms of more unexplained collapses and deaths . It 2015 in terms of more unexplained collapses and deaths . Collapses and deaths . It was the first time i collapses and deaths . It was the first time i started collapses and deaths . It was the first time i started to collapses and deaths . It was the first time i started to Have Collapses and deaths . It was the first time i started to have some| first time i started to have some concerns about the unusual nature of the collapses and the deaths. I e mailed the unit manager after this death in october, and i asked to discuss lucy letby and her association with the deaths. Some of the babies did not respond to resuscitation quite how we would have expected them to. Most babies get a heart rate back, and they start. Their breathing would get better, but that didnt happen in these cases. Not like you would expect, which was unusual. This these cases. Not like you would expect, which was unusual. As the ear expect, which was unusual. As the year turned expect, which was unusual. As the year turned into expect, which was unusual. As the year turned into early expect, which was unusual. As the year turned into early 2016, year turned into early 2016, particularly february 2016, things took another turn. You asked for an Urgent Meeting. That took another turn. You asked for an Urgent Meeting Urgent Meeting. That is correct, es. As Urgent Meeting. That is correct, yes its a Urgent Meeting. That is correct, yes its a group. Urgent meeting. That is correct, yes. As a group, our Urgent Meeting. That is correct, yes. As a group, our concerns i Urgent Meeting. That is correct, i yes. As a group, our concerns were rising. There is no communication from senior managers in the trust. And how long did it take for that meeting to come about . The meeting did not happen meeting to come about . The meeting did not happen until meeting to come about . The meeting did not happen until may. Meeting to come about . The meeting did not happen until may. Tell meeting to come about . The meeting did not happen until may. Tell me did not happen until may. Tell me about the fact did not happen until may. Tell me about the fact that did not happen until may. Tell me about the fact that two did not happen until may. Tell me about the fact that two of did not happen until may. Tell me about the fact that two of the about the fact that two of the triplets died injune, you had a debrief, talk me through what happened. Debrief, talk me through what happened debrief, talk me through what hauened. , , happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sittin happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next to happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next to me. Happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next to me. I happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next to me. I spoke happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next to me. I spoke to was sitting next to me. I spoke to her towards the end of the meeting, and i said how tired and upset she must be after two days of this, and i hoped that she was going to have a restful weekend. And she turned to me and said, no, i am back on shift tomorrow. Which struck me as being incredible, really. The other staff were very traumatised by all of this, we were crumbling before your eyes almost. And she was quite happy and confident to come into work on the saturday. find and confident to come into work on the saturday the saturday. And at was, shortly after that. The saturday. And at was, shortly after that, that the saturday. And at was, shortly after that, that lucy the saturday. And at was, shortly after that, that lucy letby the saturday. And at was, shortly after that, that lucy letby was i after that, that lucy letby was taken off duty. After that, that lucy letby was taken off duty. Yes. Would you say that was the taken off duty. Iezs would you say that was the Tipping Point . Certainly, the Tipping Point for the consultant body, who wanted to work in a safe environment. We had a number of meetings with senior management, it was quite clear that they were not going to budge and i didnt think it was appropriate to go to the police at that stage. [30 go to the police at that stage. Do ou go to the police at that stage. Do you think it is the case that if you hadnt persisted, there would never have been a Police Investigation . Im sure, yeah. That was the intention of the executives, was to somehow close this case. Itotals intention of the executives, was to somehow close this case. Intention of the executives, was to somehow close this case. Was this a coverup . Somehow close this case. Was this a coverup . I somehow close this case. Was this a coverup . I dont somehow close this case. Was this a coverup . I dont know somehow close this case. Was this a coverup . I dont know how somehow close this case. Was this a coverup . I dont know how you i coverup . I dont know how you define a coverup, coverup . I dont know how you define a coverup, but coverup . I dont know how you define a coverup, but to coverup . I dont know how you define a coverup, but to us, i coverup . I dont know how you | define a coverup, but to us, the define a cover up, but to us, the evidence in front of us was quite clear. It felt like they were trying to engineer some sort of narrative, a way out of these that didnt involve going to the police. If you want to call that a cover up, then thatis want to call that a cover up, then that is a cover up. Flan want to call that a coverup, then that is a coverup. That is a coverup. Can expectant mothers coming that is a coverup. Can expectant mothers coming into that is a coverup. Can expectant mothers coming into the that is a coverup. Can expectant mothers coming into the unit i that is a coverup. Can expectantl mothers coming into the unit have confidence . I mothers coming into the unit have confidence . Confidence . I think those parents can expect. Confidence . I think those parents can expect, em. Confidence . I think those parents can expect, em. As confidence . I think those parents can expect, em. As high confidence . I think those parents can expect, em. As high a i confidence . I think those parents can expect, em. As high a level confidence . I think those parents i can expect, em. As high a level of care are now unit as any unit in the country. It care are now unit as any unit in the count. Care are now unit as any unit in the count. , ,. , care are now unit as any unit in the | country we country. It is upsetting, though. We have one country. It is upsetting, though. We have gone to country. It is upsetting, though. We have gone to a country. It is upsetting, though. We have gone to a particularly country. It is upsetting, though. We have gone to a particularly hard i have gone to a particularly hard time, and i think we owe it to the families, for them to know that the staff care. Live from manchester, this is bbc news. Lucy letby is found guilty of murdering seven babies and the attempted murders of six others. The families affected released this statement. ,. , the families affected released this statement. ,. Statement. Today justice has been served, statement. Today justice has been served. And statement. Today justice has been served, and the statement. Today justice has been served, and the nurse statement. Today justice has been served, and the nurse who statement. Today justice has been served, and the nurse who has i statement. Today justice has been i served, and the nurse who has been caring for our babies was found guilty of harming them. This justice will not take away from the extreme hurt, anger and distress that we have all had to experience. The Moment Police arrested lucy letby in chester. She is now the most profilic killer of children in the uk in modern times. Were live from manchester bringing you the latest. Hello. Youre watching verified live, coming live from manchester. Im anna foster. You can see behind me the scene at Manchester Crown court where a few hours ago lucy letby� s trial came to its conclusion. She has been convicted of murdering seven babies in her care when she was a nurse on the Neonatal Unit at the countess of Chester Hospital and attempting to