Transcripts For BBCNEWS Unspun 20240703 : vimarsana.com

BBCNEWS Unspun July 3, 2024

With hamas controlling who can pass through. And President Biden has spoken to the israeli and palestinian leaders, as the us steps up efforts to contain the escalating conflict. Mr biden urged israel to provide safety for Palestinian Civilians and to issue a condemnation of hamas. More now on the situation in gaza the United Nations says nearly a million palestinians have fled their homes in the gaza strip in the week since israel launched its Military Response to the killings and kidnappings by hamas. The entire enclave has been hit by israeli strikes from gaza city in the north to rafah in the south. The Border Crossing there with egypt has remained shut since the hamas attacks last weekend. Crowds of palestinians and foreign nationals have been gathering at the crossing after news that an Evacuation Route may temporarily open. With me is. Justin crump, military analyst and ceo of sibylline. We analyst and ceo of sibylline. Were talking about thi ground we were talking about the imminent Ground Offensive and the scales Israeli Soldiers have with the huge channels of hamas. In Urban Warfare is particularly difficult particularly when you are an army with a lot of tanks. Tanks have difficulties with Urban Warfare. Mat difficulties with Urban Warfare. Not the best difficulties with Urban Warfare. Iirrt the best terrain to be a Tank Commander n. They are very important for security, especially as he moved into urban areas. In the perimeter of the urban operations as well. There is a view that israel has amassed all these troops and it will rush into gaza. It will be long and deliberate operation. The more time it takes to prepare, the slower it needs. We are seeing this waiting period. Israel will be get away from the operational area, get away from northern gaza. This is where we are going into retail hamas. They will have to fight through tunnels and bunkers. And bunkers. And not of infantry led fighting. They will want to make sure they are fully ready for that. It will be incredibly violent. fix, ready for that. It will be incredibly violent. Ready for that. It will be incredibly violent. Ready for that. It will be incredibl violent. �. ,. , incredibly violent. A lot of people are unable incredibly violent. A lot of people are unable to incredibly violent. A lot of people are unable to move. Incredibly violent. A lot of people are unable to move. This incredibly violent. A lot of people are unable to move. This is are unable to move. This is potentially a death sentence, telling people in hospitals in incubators and the like to move but they cannot. It is incubators and the like to move but they cannot they cannot. It is extraordinarily difficult. Israel they cannot. It is extraordinarily difficult. Israel has they cannot. It is extraordinarily difficult. Israel has said, they cannot. It is extraordinarily difficult. Israel has said, clear. They cannot. It is extraordinarily | difficult. Israel has said, clear an area because this is where we are operating. On previous incursions they have operated in the area without warning. That is a step forward. It does reflect the International Community and the sheer scale of what they are doing. 2000 people have died already in gaza in the past week. Needing a Million People, and also whether they had to go is the issue . Gaza is so densely populated already. The south so densely populated already. Tue south cannot so densely populated already. Tte south cannot cope either. Unfortunately, the people of gaza are caught between the hammer of the israeli operation that is incoming and b and full of hamas. There is evidence that hamas is not making evacuation easy because to some extent it was to martyr the population of gaza and force the arab world and others to come to the rescue, to some extent. They wish to isolate israel on the world stage. That is something the israelis had to consider. They are playing into the hands of hamas if they do not do everything they can to minimise the risk. Millions was that they also need to clear out this Extensive Urban network, that fighters and tunnels. Missiles are being launched daily from hidden positions. Years worth of construction that has taken place underneath gaza. Huge Military Priorities for them. Priorities for them. Where will and ersonal priorities for them. Where will and personal israel priorities for them. Where will and personal israel is priorities for them. Where will and personal israel is saying priorities for them. Where will and personal israel is saying It Priorities for them. Where will and personal israel is saying it wants l personal israel is saying it wants to wipe out hamas. Is that even feasible . Will it stop if anything other than that is achieved . This is a ureat other than that is achieved . This is a great question. Other than that is achieved . This is a great question. Hamas other than that is achieved . This is a great question. Hamas said other than that is achieved . This is a great question. Hamas said it other than that is achieved . This is a great question. Hamas said it is i a great question. Hamas said it is launching an operation, referring to the holy place injerusalem. A wider rallying cry for that in order to edit once and for all. Both sides have said they are ending it. It is entirely unrealistic that neither side can totally endless. It remains to be seen if israel will stick to that intended. To completely clear out hamas, let alone the implications of this action on future generations, would require clearing through the entire gaza strip, sifting the entire human population. Strip, sifting the entire Human Inundation strip, sifting the entire human oulation. �. , population. Almost an impossible undertaking population. Almost an impossible undertaking. Even population. Almost an impossible undertaking. Even if population. Almost an impossible undertaking. Even if it population. Almost an impossible undertaking. Even if it did population. Almost an impossible | undertaking. Even if it did commit new groups would pop up in terms of a new body, a Different Group with a different name. In terms of an end to this, do you see one . This different name. In terms of an end to this, do you see one . Different name. In terms of an end to this, do you see one . This is the cle. To this, do you see one . This is the cycle when to this, do you see one . This is the cycle when did to this, do you see one . This is the cycle. When did it to this, do you see one . This is the cycle. When did it start . To this, do you see one . This is the cycle. When did it start . You to this, do you see one . This is the cycle. When did it start . You can i to this, do you see one . This is the | cycle. When did it start . You can go to the formation of a state of israel. That was oversimplistic, 75 years ago. Israel. That was oversimplistic, 75 ears a. O. G , israel. That was oversimplistic, 75 ears auo,. ~ israel. That was oversimplistic, 75 earsauo. ,. , ~. , israel. That was oversimplistic, 75 years age years ago. Just talking to crispin blunt, the years ago. Just talking to crispin blunt, the conservative years ago. Just talking to crispin blunt, the conservative mp years ago. Just talking to crispinl blunt, the conservative mp about years ago. Just talking to crispin blunt, the conservative mp about the uk government and its involvement in this, perhaps not doing enough to call for restraint from israel. What did you make of what he was saying . There is a valuable point. If we are to stand anything, it is about having higher standards. That is right. The reality of doing these situations on the ground is incredibly difficult for commanders, politicians, policymakers, decision makers. It is easy to state and intent of, we will destroy this group and prevent it from happening again. It is practically impossible to do. How do you take those competing priorities and the need to try to do the best you can forcibly and in highly kinetic, as we call it, Armed Conflict when there is a huge amount of destruction taking place . This is the real complication of war in this century, we have seen it again and again and sadly something we will see a lot more of in coming decades. Did we stand for something but very difficult for those on the ground trying to implement those standards in these immensely testing military situations. Immensely testing military situations. , ~ ,. , situations. Thank you very much for cominu in situations. Thank you very much for coming in to situations. Thank you very much for coming in to talk situations. Thank you very much for coming in to talk to situations. Thank you very much for coming in to talk to us. Thank you. The un, us, egypt, jordan and others in the region are working together to ensure civilians have access to water, food, and medical care in gaza. Rishi sunak will hold talks later with the king ofjordan, who is visiting several European Countries to discuss the situation in gaza. King abdullah has said he is trying to rally International Support to stop what he called the war on gaza. Ive been speaking to the countrys foreign minister ayman safadi about the meeting, what can be achieved, and how civilians can be helped. Obviously, arabs fearing the enormity of the challenge that the destruction would engulf the whole region, if were not able to stop the violence and stop the war and stop the tremendous human toll its taking. We are working with all our friends and allies and particularly here starting the tour in britain to try and see how we can stop the escalation, make sure that civilians are protected from both sides, get humanitarian supplies in, and also look for the day after. But the immediate goal is to stop the violence, stop the war, protect civilians and get humanitarian supplies in. You may have heard my conversation earlier with our Political Correspondent talking about how rishi sunak released this Statement Last night, talking about his unequivocal support for israel, talking about how we stand with Israel Notjust today, not just tomorrow, but always. And he has been criticised for not mentioning the civilians caught up in this in gaza. Was that a disappointing statement for you to hear . Ithink, look, i mean, when it comes to civilians, we came in very, very clearly injordan and the rest of the arab world condemning the killing of civilians from both sides. Palestinian lives matter. Israeli lives matter. And we expect that our shared human values would dictate that we take a firm stand, all of us, against the killing of civilians, no matter what their nationality, what their identity is. What we all need to do is to support peace, to all speak against war, against violence as a path to achieving anything, because it will not it willjust push us deeper into the abyss of violence and death and destruction. What we need to do is to support a new path, a path that will get us to a peace, that will ensure safety, security for palestinians, for israelis, and for everybody in the region. We were just hearing in the last few minutes actually about missiles coming. Or going over into israel from southern lebanon. And weve been hearing from hezbollah in recent days, talking about how theyre fully ready to get involved, when the time comes, they said. Do you get the feeling that the wider region being brought into this is inevitable . The danger is there. We are dealing with a very, very tense and difficult situation. As talk of a Ground Invasion continues, the images coming out of Gaza Willjust be provocative to everybody it will be painful to everybody, as were the images that came at the beginning of that. So the possibilities are there. Thats why were urging self restraint. Urging for this war to stop, for civilians to be protected. Because, if that happens, then were looking at the prospects of a regional war, and that would just bring more death, more destruction, more suffering to everybody in the region. And the sad thing is that for years we have been warning against this. For years, weve been saying violence is not the path. The absence of hope is just not going to get us anywhere. And, for years, weve been working on trying to avoid this moment and to open a path that would restore faith in negotiations, as a path to, again, addressing the legitimate rights of both palestinians and israelis, palestinian right to freedom and statehood and israeli right to live in security. These two go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. Shall we talk about the humanitarian corridors and what progress has been made on that, if any, i suppose . I mean, the cleararea, what people are focusing on is the border with gaza, with egypt, which remains closed, doesnt it . Even for Aid Organisations going in or out. Has any progress being made in negotiations there . Unfortunately, till early this morning, no. Israel is refusing to allow humanitarian supplies into gaza. And this is just unacceptable by any standard. And again, to be frank, why is it that denying access to food and water and energy and fuel to ukraine, a war crime, and were not hearing the same narrative there . We know whats happened is enormous. Its painful. Its just beyond words in terms of the human loss it caused. But we cannot do more of the same. I mean, why . There are 2. 3 Million People in gaza in an area of 140 square kilometres, the most densely populated area on earth. These are innocent people. These are young women, children, elderly. Why should they be punished . Denying access to food is collective punishment and that, we should all be clear in saying that none of us want this. None of us want war. None of us want one people to starve. Israel will argue, obviously, that it has a right to defend itself from these horrendous attacks that it suffered a week ago. It also will talk about how it cant negotiate with hamas. And it seems like this Ground Invasion is imminent, doesnt it . And you have to. Israel has to take action, doesnt it, has to be seen to deal with its situation and it needs to restore security for its people, doesnt it . Look, let me be very clear, let me be clear on that. We are for the security of israelis and palestinians. Again, palestinians, israelis, both human people, human beings, both deserve equal measures of security and protection. So thats a given. None of us would argue the other way. Well not be humans if we dont do that. Israeli lives matter. Palestinian lives matter. But palestinians are not. What is going to happen . Can you see a diplomatic solution to this . There are deaths on both sides and its going to continue. We know that. Unfortunately, it doesnt look like that at this point. And thats what were saying. If you continue down this path, the only thing that will produce is more death and suffering for palestinians, for israelis and for everybody else. Israel has a right to peace. Palestinians have the right to peace and dignity and security and statehood as well. They go hand in hand. I think, instead ofjust going down the path of war, which, again, carries the real threat of spreading to the whole region, lets just i, lets just. I mean, the loss has been there and its painful and its sad and its tragic. But lets not go towards more losses from both sides and lets focus on what can really bring security, and that is stopping the war and all of us coming together behind a plan to stop this once and forever. And that only means a peace on the basis of the Two State Solution. Weve been there before. Can you imagine that this attack happens from hamas and then there is a realistic path to a Two State Solution off the back of it . Can you imagine israel being willing to do that after this attack that has happened on its soil . Again, emotions are high, the loss is tremendous, the pain is deep. Nobody argues that. But it is ourjob as people in positions of responsibility to think of how do we really protect our people . How do we really give them a future . War is not going to achieve anything. Its not the first time we see this. Unfortunately, its like every year in, year out, were in this place. And what did war achieve . What did violence achieve . Again, from both sides, it got us nowhere. It got us here. Ultimately, now, ithink the priority is just stop this craziness thats engulfing the whole region and risking pushing us all to the abyss. And letsjust, you know, as terrible as the losses are for the israelis, for the palestinians, question is, how do we get to a place where were not in this space that weve been pushed into . We need to create our own space for peace now. Now were pushed into the space of violence and destruction. Practically, do you think that people should be allowed, Palestinian Refugees should be allowed into egypt, to be allowed to leave . No, that is an absolute, absolute no. Memories of 1948 and 1967 are still pretty much alive among refugees in the region. Gazans need to be protected within gaza. We will never accept population displacement. Gaza is being destroyed in the north, isnt it . Well, and that destruction has to stop. But you cannot transfer the crisis into the region because any talk of population transfer, population displacement, is just going to take this conflict into a totally new dimension, and thats dangerous. You have 2 million Palestinian Refugees injordan. 2. 6 are registered with unrwa as refugees. And for us, we will never accept that any palestinian is being pushed out of their country. The answer is, again, we have to look beyond this very difficult and very painful moment as what can be done to make sure that this is not going to hit us again, as history, the history of the region has been. The Jordanian Foreign minister talking theJordanian Foreign minister talking to me a l

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