Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240703 : vimarsana.com

BBCNEWS BBC July 3, 2024

Is the normal midterm blues, but on steroids. What were seeing here is partly because of that mood of the nation, partly because the brand, the tory brand, the conservative party brand was damaged in September 2022 and earlier through partygate as well, and that is still feeding through into the public psyche. So, yes, to some degree, theres a pattern and its feeding through to the by elections. But patterns can also be broken by unexpected events. All change in a land normally wary of the new. Tories will be hoping there will be limits to these new habits. Thats all from us. Im back on monday. Until then, have a good weekend. Goodbye. Breaking news from Around The World 2a hours a day, this is bbc news. Rabbi meir hecht knows bothjudith and Natalie Raanan personally. He spoke to me just after the news of their release. Judith prays every week in our congregation, for every sabbath, every holiday, and we miss her and shes been a part of our congregation in such an important way, and as a family friend, someone who would come to our home every sabbath, parade around the house with our baby and bring over gifts for the children, our hearts are filled with gratitude to almighty god for this miracle. And again, we continue to pray and ask everyone to pray for the release of the other 200 plus hostages in the hands of hamas terrorists. And what more can you tell us aboutjudith and natalie . As you say, theyre members of the congregation there. What kind of women are they . What kind of role do they have in the community there . Judith and natalie are really special people. Judith is the most kind, giving, sharing, generous person, someone who is always first to be there for other people in their time of need. She is a woman who would, as i said, come over, bring gifts for the children. Shes someone who loves life, loves humanity. Her daughter natalie is the same. Like mum, like daughter. These are people who have a love for every human being, and they are both artists, which means that they have a special touch of spirituality in their soul, something that theyre able to convey through the beauty of art. Rabbi meir hecht, speaking to us about the freed us hostages a little earlier. Un Secretary General Antonio Guterres was at the rafah Border Crossing with egypt on friday, where there are hundreds of trucks stuck at the gate. Theyve been waiting for two days now to enter. Mr gutteres says he expects the first shipment of 20 trucks that President Biden was able to negotiate with israeli and egyptian officials to cross in the next day or so. These trucks are notjust trucks. They are a lifeline. They are the difference between life and death for so many people in gaza. But the 20 trucks will not feed 2 million people. The water is running out, the hospitals are overwhelmed and are now rationing anaesthetic and painkillers, the main medical facility in gaza city says its generators which power the Life Support Machines will run out of fuel tomorrow. And there are no Fuel Supplies in the convoy that is waiting to cross. For more on that humanitarian situation, with me now is ghaith al omari, who is the former Executive Director of the American Task force on palestine and former political adviser to the palestinian authority. Ghaith, thanks very much forjoining us. Just before we talk about the humanitarian situation, just to get your response to the news that hamas has released to hostages today . First of all, any positive news right now is welcome. I am happy that two hostages were released, but as you said, there are still 200 left and there is a wider humanitarian crisis. So, yes, this is an important first step, see how it goes on, and my main concern is this release of hostages is not only being used as a political not only by hamas but by guitar, so lets focus on humanitarian and not politicise it. But by qatar. I wanted to ask you about the role of the qatari government on this. They intended to continue negotiations. What do you see as their role . To be honest, what do you see as their role . To be honest. Qatar what do you see as their role . To be honest, qatar has what do you see as their role . To be honest, qatar has come what do you see as their role . To be honest, qatar has come under what do you see as their role . To be honest, qatar has come under a honest, qatar has come under a lot of criticism in washington over the last days for hosting hamas leaders, for supporting hamas both rhetorically and financially, and i think this is a message to basically say, look, we are still relevant, we still need this, so it is a bit of a posturing by qatar. We still need qatar, we have to play this double approach. On the one hand, the humanitarian, but we should not give them a pass on things like supporting a mass, hosting hamas leaders, etc. We supporting a mass, hosting hamas leaders. Etc supporting a mass, hosting hamas leaders, etc. We have seen a lot of rotests leaders, etc. We have seen a lot of protests right leaders, etc. We have seen a lot of protests right throughout leaders, etc. We have seen a lot of protests right throughout the leaders, etc. We have seen a lot of| protests right throughout the region since President Biden visited here, visited there. How do you think of us is viewed in the region currently . Of us is viewed in the region currentl . ,. , , currently . Unfortunately, very negatively currently . Unfortunately, very negatively. Sitting currently . Unfortunately, very negatively. Sitting in currently . Unfortunately, very i negatively. Sitting in washington currently . Unfortunately, very negatively. Sitting in washington it is perfectly understandable and fully with us policy to support israel, and the president used his famous kind of empathy. In israel, they say he is the most popular politician. But the way it was received in the air world coupled with the debt of destruction in gaza is, us supports israel. Some of the uss closest allies, jordan, the closest ally, had to cancel the summit with The Americans because Thejordanians Summit with The Americans because the jordanians assessed summit with The Americans because thejordanians assessed their public is not ready for pictures of their king sitting with the president of the summit is making the ability of the summit is making the ability of the us to support tell pursue its Policy Objectives quite more complicated. Pursue its. fine Policy Objectives quite more complicated. Pursue its. One of the successes, complicated. Pursue its. One of the successes, if complicated. Pursue its. One of the successes, if you complicated. Pursue its. One of the successes, if you want complicated. Pursue its. One of the successes, if you want to complicated. Pursue its. One of the successes, if you want to call. The successes, if you want to call it that, the president claimed from that visit was he had got some aid to get in from the rafah crossing. We still have not seen that aid allowed through, though. First of all, allowed through, though. First of all. Youre allowed through, though. First of all, youre absolutely allowed through, though. First of all, youre absolutely right. Allowed through, though. First of all, youre absolutely right. The | all, youre absolutely right. The did gives his achievement. There are some conditions the egyptian theyre saying, basically, no, we need to allow more in. They are also afraid if they open this corridor they would be faced with a magnitude of gazans wanting to go into egypt, and egypt does not want to deal with a refugee problem, egypt is having its own security challenges, its own economic challenges, and egypt believes it is ultimately israels responsibility to deal with gaza, so both of these overly complicated things. Both of these overly complicated thins. � ,. , things. And yet the world is looking at these desperate things. And yet the world is looking at these desperate images things. And yet the world is looking at these desperate images coming | at these desperate images coming out of gaza. The Secretary General of the United Nations was at the crossing today, pleading for the gates to be opened. What do you say to the International Community . You are riaht, to the International Community . You are right. The to the International Community . 7m. Are right, the humanitarian situation is dire, when hospitals have no fuel, this is major. The International Community should be putting more pressure on the egyptians, on the israelis, on the qatar to call for more humanitarian action. There are political objectives, but as the president said, democracies are stronger when they respect the rule of law. The rule of Law International conflict is to allow civilians to be receiving assistance, etc, so i believe we have to be very, very firm. I think the president needs to talk again to the egyptian Prime Minister egyptian president , the israeli Prime Minister, to say, as the us, this is one area we will not accept any equivocation. How much loner can accept any equivocation. How much longer can the accept any equivocation. How much longer can the people accept any equivocation. How much longer can the people of accept any equivocation. How much longer can the people of gaza longer can the people of gaza sustained without this aid, without water, without food, without fuel, without medicine . In a water, without food, without fuel, without medicine . Without medicine . In a sense, the disaster is already without medicine . In a sense, the disaster is already happening, without medicine . In a sense, the disaster is already happening, Notj Disaster is already happening, not just in the killings, but procedures are being done without an estate. Without an aesthetic. I heard a statement from a gazan saying, we need more body bags. It is not how long they can wait. Already it is a disaster. With every passing hour, 70 loses their lives, let alone the basic necessities of life, so the sooner that we can just depoliticize this issue can move ahead, understanding there are legitimate concerns, including the need to degrade hamas, because they are the ones who started this on the at the civilians should not pay the price and it should be a very firm line by the whole International Community. And just briefly, ghaith, are you hopeful that can happen any time soon . I hopeful that can happen any time soon . ,. , ,. Soon . I am hopefulwe will see much more aid. Soon . I am hopefulwe will see much more aid the soon . I am hopefulwe will see much more aid. The us has soon . I am hopefulwe will see much more aid. The us has appointed soon . I am hopefulwe will see much more aid. The us has appointed a more aid. The us has appointed a very capable diplomat, david satterfield, to do that. Unfortunately, i am not hopeful because i see this conflict going on for weeks if not months, and as usual, civilians will pay the biggest price. We usual, civilians will pay the biggest price usual, civilians will pay the biggest price. We will leave it there for now. Biggest price. We will leave it there for now. I biggest price. We will leave it there for now. I am biggest price. We will leave it there for now. I am sure biggest price. We will leave it there for now. I am sure we l biggest price. We will leave it i there for now. I am sure we will biggest price. We will leave it there for now. I am sure we will be talking to you again. Ghaith al omari, thank you forjoining us. Thank you. President joe biden is calling congress to provide an additional 10 billion in assistance to israel. But his administrations policy to provide weapons as well has not been welcomed by everyone, including those in his own government. Josh paul, who served as a director in the us state Departments Bureau of political military affairs, resigned over the president s decision to arm israel. In his resignation, mr paul said. Mr pauljoined me to explain his resignation further. Josh paul, thank you very much forjoining us. Now, you said in your 11 years at the state department that you made more moral compromises than you could recall and that youd always said youd stay as long in the job as you felt the harm you might do could be outweighed by the good you could do. What is the level of harm that you felt you were doing now . Yeah, thank you. And thank you for having me. The transfer of arms can be a really important part of foreign policy, as we see in ukraine, but it comes with an immense responsibility to ensure those arms are not used to harm civilians and to commit human rights violations. I think what we see in gaza now, and based on a lengthy track record, is the misuse of us arms. And when i tried to raise that issue in the state department, there was no opportunity for any pushback, no opportunity for discussion, and nor is there at this time in the us congress. And therefore, i decided the only thing i could do was to bring my concerns to the public. And to do that, i had to resign. Youve described the us backing of israel as blind support. Why do you use the word blind . Well, i think if you think about how we come at the problem, we ask, dont Israeli Citizens have the right to not live under rocket fire . And they do. But dont palestinians also have that right . Dont they have the right to live safely and securely in their homes . And so i think as long as weve provided the Security Assistance to israel, weve come from the position of, with security, we can have peace. If israel feels secure, that will lead to peace. But thats not at all whats happened. The Security Assistance weve provided to israel has emboldened it to continue down a path that does not lead to peace for palestinians or for israelis. And i think we have a responsibility to bring some additional wisdom and pressure to the situation, notjust pour arms orfuel onto the fire. And when you were mentioning there how the Policy Decisions were arrived at, again, you say in your letter that the Biden Administrations approach has been an impulsive reaction built on confirmation bias, political convenience, Intellectual Ba nkru ptcy and bureaucratic inertia. Can you explain what you mean by that . Surely. So, impulsive i think everyone was shaken and shocked by the horrific attacks of hamas on october 7th, and lets not make any bones about it, those were absolutely an outrage and should be condemned forthright. But there was an impulse there to say, ok, this is something horrible has happened. What is israel asking for . Lets do everything we can. I say that there was bureaucratic inertia because, again, this has been the trend for many years that when israel asks for something, we give it. And rather than pausing to think about what were doing, thats how we move forward. Confirmation bias in the sense that we see an attack, it confirms our bias that this is an enemy that must be defeated. And there is certainly an argument to be made there, but rather than standing back and looking at the broader situation and, again, looking at both sides. So i think in each of those respects. And Intellectual Bankruptcy, because this is something we have tried for years and years and years and it has not led to security for israel, it has not led to peace. So for all of those reasons, i felt that the decisions that were being made were not being made with the thought and attention that, as i say, the transfer of arms really does deserve. Now, youve obviously resigned. Theres reporting that theres other colleagues in the state department who are working on a note of dissent, and theyre going to channel that up through the official internal dissent channel. Did you do the same . I did not. I have looked at Dissent Cables in the past. In this instance, ifelt that there was no space for dissent. However, i give full credit to my colleagues in the state department who are pursuing their concerns. I know that there are actually a lot of them. Ive heard from so many of them saying that, we understand where youre coming from. We are finding this hard. We feel dirty even being involved in this, and so my heart goes out to them. Im sure they will find the courage to do what is right for them, given their own personal circumstances. And will any attention be paid to that, to either your letter or your concerns or any Dissent Cable . So a lot of people have asked me why i didnt quit on controversial arms sales during the trump administration, and there are many reasons for those, but one of those is that i dont think it would have made the slightest bit of difference. To its credit, i think the Biden Administration does listen often to its staff, and i think with a critical mass, there is the possibility for change if we speak up. At this point, though, President Biden, as we saw in the address last night, has committed and pledged a lot of support to israel. Yes. Can you see a Policy Turnabout . Not in the short term. I think america is going to go full speed ahead with providing israel with the arms it has requested. I think we are in for a very rough few days and weeks, and possibly longer. And i hope that at the end of all this, at least, we can turn around and say, ok, and whats next . Are we going to do this again in five years . Are thousands of civilians going to die again in five years . Or is there a better way of doing this that really leads to peace and to security for all . Ok, all right, well leave it there for now. Josh paul, thank you very much for speaking to us. Thank you very

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