Always be my emma. Searching for emma in the weeks after their daughter went missing. The . Emma in the weeks after their daughter went missing. They found emmas body daughter went missing. They found emmas body and daughter went missing. They found emmas body and they daughter went missing. They found emmas body and they came daughter went missing. They found emmas body and they came and i daughter went missing. They found l emmas body and they came and told me that they had found her body, i took this huge breath in. Emmas killer was this man, ian packer. He was described in court as a jekyll and hyde type character, a violent obsessive abuser of sex workers. He indecently assaulted emma in the months before her death. Some told of how hed taken them to this isolated woodland. Its here that emmas body was found. fine isolated woodland. Its here that emmas body was found. Isolated woodland. Its here that emmas body was found. One of those who ave emmas body was found. One of those who gave evidence emmas body was found. One of those who gave evidence against emmas body was found. One of those who gave evidence against packer emmas body was found. One of those who gave evidence against packer and | who gave evidence against packer and her voice has been changed to protect her identity, the concerns and she and other sex workers had about him were ignored by police. They made us fear them rather than see them as safe people we could go to to make reports. Police scotland said those who spoke up at the time did not get the support they deserved. They praised those who survived packers horrific catalogue of offending and emmas family for the courage, resilience and determination they have shown which led to packers conviction. Lorna gordon, bbc news, at the high court in glasgow. Interviews with ian packer were inconsequential to bring him to the stand. Sam herself being cited as a winston witness. Some of the women who were raped and assaulted by packer came forward as a result of the bbc programme in 2019. Here is sam pullings report. This is ian packer about to be confronted by me in 2019. I dont believe youve been telling me the truth. We discovered evidence he was a prolific sexual predator, a violent rapist and a killer. Did you kill emma . Ida. Predator, a violent rapist and a killer. Did you kill emma . No, i had nothin to killer. Did you kill emma . No, i had nothing to do killer. Did you kill emma . No, i had nothing to do with killer. Did you kill emma . No, i had nothing to do with it killer. Did you kill emma . No, i had nothing to do with it whatsoever. I nothing to do with it whatsoever. All lies. This interview was used in court as evidence against him. Today, the verdict, guilty. But why did it take so long . It started here in 2005. Emmas body found in these remote woods an hour from glasgow. Grief stricken after her sisters death from cancer. For years, justice eluded her killer. At the bbc can reveal that information linking ian packer to emmas murder was available to police from the start. Detectors who worked on the aquarium in 2005 have broken their silence. ,. , silence. They were describing the silence. They were describing the s who silence. They were describing the sky who would silence. They were describing the sky who would go silence. They were describing the sky who would go up silence. They were describing the sky who would go up and silence. They were describing the | sky who would go up and regularly used prostitutes. You know, almost on a daily basis. And he would have a van, he would be particularly rough with them. They would all identify him as someone they knew. That someone was ian packer. Police would speak to packer six times between 2005 and 2007. The evidence against him, these officers say, was undeniable. Packeradmitted against him, these officers say, was undeniable. Packer admitted to taking women to the woods for sex, he admitted to taking emma there. And various women identified ian packer as a violent rapist who had attacked emma in the months prior to her death. Yet Senior Officers repeatedly dismissed him as a suspect. Repeatedly dismissed him as a susect. � �. ,. ,. , suspect. And im told at that point, david, suspect. And im told at that point, david. When suspect. And im told at that point, david. When you suspect. And im told at that point, david, when you get suspect. And im told at that point, david, when you get ian suspect. And im told at that point, david, when you get ian packer suspect. And im told at that point, j david, when you get ian packer and bring him in, it doesnt matter what he tells you. It doesnt matter what he tells you. It doesnt matter what he tells you. He wont be accused of this case. ,. ,. ,. , this case. Instead, those Senior Officers spent this case. Instead, those Senior Officers spent millions this case. Instead, those Senior Officers spent millions pursuing j this case. Instead, those senior. Officers spent millions pursuing for turkish men for emmas murder. We ask Police Gottman for statement. The trial at the high court in glasgow has found packer to be one of the most prolific Sex Offenders in scottish history. Todays guilty verdict, justice for emmas family. But hejust is verdict, justice for emmas family. But he just is perhaps delivered years later than it could have been, leaving a dangerous killer free to continue killing. Some at bbc news. We note that the interview was consequential in bringing him to the stand. Lets take a look at a longer section of her interview with packer. Isaidi i said i would get back to you once i said i would get back to you once ifinished my i said i would get back to you once i finished my investigation and present the evidence that i found to you. Present the evidence that i found to ou. , i present the evidence that i found to you i dont present the evidence that i found to you. Yep. I dont believe youve been telling you. Yep. I dont believe youve been telling me you. Yep. I dont believe youve been telling me the you. Jen i dont believe youve been telling me the truth. All you. I2n, i dont believe youve been telling me the truth. All the evidence that ive seen and heard indicates that you are a sexually violent man who has been sexually violent man who has been sexually violent to a number of women. Throughout the years. No. Iue throughout the years. No. Ive interviewed throughout the years. No. Ive interviewed one throughout the years. No. Ive interviewed one woman who said you picked her up in her van one night your van picked her up in her van one night yourvan one picked her up in her van one night your van one night, paying for sex, eu choked her, she was scared. The attack was. By a security guard. The attack was. By a security uard. The attack was. By a security. Guard ive guard. Never harmed them. Ive learned of guard. Never harmed them. Ive learned of an guard. Never harmed them. Ive learned of an allegation guard. Never harmed them. Ive learned of an allegation that guard. Never harmed them. Ive i learned of an allegation that emma was raped shortly before she went missing. The attack took place behind billboards not farfrom missing. The attack took place behind billboards not far from where we are sitting today. A man raped her that night and that meant was you. No it wasnt. You didnt rape emma that night . I did not. You remember a woman called magdalene . Ive interviewed you herfor this programme. She has told me of the months of sexual harassment, abuse, and assault by you. Really . Really . Which culminated in you raped her. I never raped her. She used to wake up at night to find you sitting on her bed. ,. , � ~ ,. , at night to find you sitting on her bed. ,. , � ~ | bed. Really, i dont think so. I havent touched bed. Really, i dont think so. I havent touched her. Bed. Really, i dont think so. I havent touched her. You bed. Really, i dont think so. I. Havent touched her. You told me youd never been to the place where emmas body was found. Absolutely. I you would force him to strip, they would be terrorised. The first woman you took to those woods was emma. You took her six time. You told police that. You took her six time. You told police that you took her six time. You told olice that. �. ,. , � police that. Because they wouldnt let me no police that. Because they wouldnt let me go for police that. Because they wouldnt let me go for some police that. Because they wouldnt let me go for some they police that. Because they wouldnt let me go for some they were let me go for some they were admitted it was me that done it, i said it wasnt me. Why would i contact you to do a programme if id done this . It doesnt make sense, why would i put myself out there and say, i didnt do it to hide behind it really . Say, i didnt do it to hide behind it reall . �. � it really . All the evidence ive seen and it really . All the evidence ive seen and everything it really . All the evidence ive seen and everything that it really . All the evidence ive seen and everything that ivel seen and everything that ive learned, makes it clear that you are a sexually violent man. Who learned, makes it clear that you are a sexually violent man. A sexually violent man. Who has ra ed a sexually violent man. Who has raped women a sexually violent man. Who has raped women. Ive a sexually violent man. Who has raped women. Ive never a sexually violent man. Who has raped women. Ive never raped l a sexually violent man. Who has raped women. Ive never raped anyone raped women. I� ve never raped anyone in raped women. Ive never raped anyone in my life. Raped women. Ive never raped anyone in m life. �. In my life. And all the evidence oints to in my life. And all the evidence points to that in my life. And all the evidence points to that you in my life. And all the evidence points to that you have in my life. And all the evidence points to that you have hard i points to that you have hard questions to answer about emma coldwell. Did you kill emma. I said no, i had nothing coldwell. Did you kill emma. I said no, i had nothing to coldwell. Did you kill emma. I said no, i had nothing to do coldwell. Did you kill emma. I said no, i had nothing to do with i coldwell. Did you kill emma. I said no, i had nothing to do with it i no, i had nothing to do with it whatsoever. Im not a violent person. Whatsoever. Im not a violent erson. �. Whatsoever. Im not a violent erson. � ,. , whatsoever. Im not a violent erson. H. ,. ,. , person. Lets cross live now to a ress person. Lets cross live now to a Press Conference person. Lets cross live now to a Press Conference where person. Lets cross live now to a | Press Conference where scotland person. Lets cross live now to a i Press Conference where scotland our reaction to the sentencing. And reaction to the sentencing. And thats a huge reaction to the sentencing. Situc thats a huge change reaction to the sentencing. Elic thats a huge change in the way we operate to 2005. find thats a huge change in the way we operate to 2005. Thats a huge change in the way we operate to 2005. And what also about the Wa Ou Operate to 2005. And what also about the way you talked operate to 2005. And what also about the way you talked to operate to 2005. And what also about the way you talked to your the way you talked to your Investigation Teams . You know, about, Investigation Teams . You know, about, this Investigation Teams . You know, about, this trial collapsed, why was it not about, this trial collapsed, why was it not that about, this trial collapsed, why was it not that at that point, there was not a it not that at that point, there was not a further look at the evidence there . Not a further look at the evidence there . Was there something that had been missed . Why was that allowed to roll on been missed . Why was that allowed to roll on for been missed . Why was that allowed to roll on for so been missed . Why was that allowed to roll on for so many years . | roll on for so many years . I think what i would roll on for so many years . I think what i would like roll on for so many years . I think what i would like to roll on for so many years . I think what i would like to say roll on for so many years . I think. What i would like to say around that is, again, the investigation into thousand five, the reinvestigation in 2015 was exceptionally thorough and took an awful lot of time to get where weve got to today. The rocess where weve got to today. The process to where weve got to today. The process to do where weve got to today. The process to do that where weve got to today. The process to do that review a bit sooner. Process to do that review a bit sooner. So process to do that review a bit sooner, so its notjust eat, you know, sooner, so its notjust eat, you know. The sooner, so its notjust eat, you know, the thoughts of one Investigation Team on what the narrative Investigation Team on what the narrative is in that case . Have you learned narrative is in that case . Have you learned from that, to have that review learned from that, to have that review a learned from that, to have that review a lot quicker . We learned from that, to have that review a lot quicker . Review a lot quicker . We would absolutely review a lot quicker . We would absolutely review review a lot quicker . We would absolutely review cases, i review a lot quicker . We would absolutely review cases, and i review a lot quicker . We would | absolutely review cases, and we review a lot quicker . We would i absolutely review cases, and we do exceptionally thoroughly, its something that we do frequently and as i say, there is no barrier to justice in terms of time and this is something we will continue to do as an organisation moving forward. Are there any women who have had an attack there any women who have had an attack that there any women who have had an attack that havent come forward. I would attack that havent come forward. I would say attack that havent come forward. I would say in relation to that, is that if anybody watching this feels they have been a victim, absolutely encourage them to come forward and talk to us, we will listen and they will be believed, as i said, time is absolutely not a barrier no matter when any of sexual offending habit, we will listen and we will investigate. We will listen and we will investi. Ate. ,. , � , we will listen and we will investiuate. ,. , � ,. , investigate. Emma coldwells family have been calling investigate. Emma coldwells family have been calling for investigate. Emma coldwells family have been calling for an investigate. Emma coldwells family have been calling for an inquiry, i have been calling for an inquiry, decisions have been calling for an inquiry, decisions at the time to be prosecuted, whats your reaction to that . Prosecuted, whats your reaction to that . Tite prosecuted, whats your reaction to that . ~. , ,. , prosecuted, whats your reaction to that . , ,. , prosecuted, whats your reaction to that . ,. That . We would support any udicial roceedins that . We would support any Udicial Proceedings that i that . We would support any Udicial Proceedings that may i that . We would support any Udicial Proceedings that may come i that . We would support anyjUdicial Proceedings that may come as i that . We would support anyjUdicial Proceedings that may come as a i proceedings that may come as a result of this absolutely, in relation to the officer side we submitted a report as a result of this stressed out investigation into 2005. This stressed out investigation into 2005. Strathclyde. That this stressedout investigation into 2005. Strathclyde. 2005. Strathclyde. That was a ress 2005. Strathclyde. That was a Press Conference 2005. Strathclyde. That was a Press Conference with 2005. Strathclyde. That was a Press Conference with police i Press Conference with Police Scotland, who said they let victims down in 2005 with their policing. This obviously comes after a formal apology from the Police Service for their response, and their investigation into the murder of Emma Caldwell in 2005. Earlier they said that Emma Caldwell have family and many of the victims were let down, for that we are very sorry. They also added that the reinvestigation of the case has been extremely challenging and has said its without doubt the Largest Police inquiry of recent times in scotland. Well lets listen to a part of the Caldwell Family solicitor who made this impassioned statement outside the court in glasgow in the last hour. {lister statement outside the court in glasgow in the last hour. Over the ears i glasgow in the last hour. Over the years i have glasgow in the last hour. Over the years i have stood glasgow in the last hour. Over the years i have stood on glasgow in the last hour. Over the years i have stood on the glasgow in the last hour. Over the years i have stood on the steps i glasgow in the last hour. Over the years i have stood on the steps of| years i have stood on the steps of the high court and said the dead cannot cry out forjustice, is the duty of the living to do so for them. Emmas mother has more than fulfilled this duty. She was a much loved daughter and sister and when her life was cruelly taken out nearly 19 years ago her familys lives were torn apart forever. The moment emma went missing at margarets life changed forever, she has taught thought about her every minute of every day. Her father died in 2011 he made his wife margaret promise she would never give up the fight forjustice. Many promise she would never give up the fight for justice. Many will ask margaret how she feels following the verdict, she feels nojoy, no elation, no closure, the loss of emma shatters a mother soul and finally the presence ofjustice allows margaret to breathe again. Its only because of the perseverance of a mother and father and many women who courageously came Forward Thatjustice is possible today. Today Margaret Caldwell wishes to honour those women, some of whom were se