Empire world. It is your take on just how massive the impact of the British Empire was and still is on the world. You certainly dont undersell your idea, subtitled how British Imperialism has shaped the globe. I imperialism has shaped the lobe. , imperialism has shaped the lobe. ,. , globe. I really do believe that. I believe globe. I really do believe that. I believe the globe. I really do believej that. I believe the British Empire explained so much about peoples daily lives around the world, Tea Drinking In India and britain, patterns of tax avoidance, even the Bbc World Service used to be known as the bbc empire service. Explain so much about our daily news. There is a Border Dispute in guyana that goes back to empire, israel palestine that has its roots in empire but also there is a gap between the way in which britain sees itself in the world sees britain through the prism of its history and i think we need to remember what we did before we go around pontificating on things like democracy and environment and human rights and we need to remember our distinct records on those things during the age of empire. Things during the age of emire. , things during the age of emire. ~ empire. Do you think your perspective empire. Do you think your perspective is empire. Do you think your perspective is driven empire. Do you think your perspective is driven in i empire. Do you think your i perspective is driven in part by your own background, you are of Indian Heritage, born and raised in the united kingdom, so britain and india matter particularly to you, you know them particularly well. Ijust wonder if you are watching this in tokyo, beijing, brasilia, are you really going to buy the concept that the British Empire, as opposed to any other empire, has been this global force, would you say about on the internet, you cannot think of anything else which influences the world so much . Absolutely. It affects south america, Something Like 60 of the countries who ended up playing football got it indirectly or directly through the British Empire. English language. Christianity. These are things that we need to understand through the prism of the history. 50. Understand through the prism of the history the history. So, many historians the history. So, many historians who the history. So, many historians who have i the history. So, many historians who have spent decades looking at the British Empire seemed to feel an impulse to treat it as some sort of accounting exercise, they look at what was positive about it, they look at what was negative and they try and sort of come to an overall conclusion, good or bad. We attempted to do that as well . I think initially because that is the only way we have talked about empire in britain until recently. What i realise with Empire World Travelling To Mauritius and nigeria and barbados and india is at the legacies are profoundly contradictory. The British Empire resulted in quite a lot of democracy around the world, australia, singapore and so on and resulted in a hewitt fashion a huge amount of geopolitical chaos, it spread slavery and antislavery and spread the free press, spread press press censorship and destroy the environment in massive ways but led to the birth of modern environmentalism. These legacies are much more contradictory than i expected when i started myjourney into this history. When i started my Ourney Into Thishistomh this history. Some of that Ust Happenstance i this history. Some of that Ust Happenstance and i this history. Some of thatjUst Happenstance and unintendedj happenstance and unintended consequences. Surely you are trying to get to sort of Core Motivations for the British Imperial experience . There were an Core Imperial experience . There were any Core Motivations imperial experience . There were any Core Motivations in imperial experience . There were any Core Motivations in the any Core Motivations in the senseit any Core Motivations in the sense it was a sprawling history that covered such a wide geographical area. It is very hard to generalise whatever you say about the British Empire, you can say the opposite to a certain degree. A man in india in early 20 century might have had experience with colonialism in the morning, a Police Officer helping him sort out a dispute but in the evening he might have had a horrible experience of imperial racism. 0pposite things can be true at the same time and i think that is a really powerful way to understand history. What you think to be understand history. What you think to be telling understand history. What you think to be telling us understand history. What you think to be telling us is understand history. What you think to be telling us is what | think to be telling us is what we shouldnt look at the empire and its legacies through prejudiced eyes, we shouldnt bring our own bias is to it, we should just confront the truth as best we can discover it from this historical record, and goodness knows you spent a lot of time researching this. But it seems to me there is one Dwelling Quote at the beginning of your book which does give you an overarching motivation and perhaps give you a sense of being on one side. You say, i mean, you dont say it, you quote an African Proverb the beginning of the book and the proverb says, until lions have their own historians, tales of their own historians, Tales Of The Hunt will always glorify the hunt will always glorify the hunter. I the hunt will always glorify the hunter. The hunt will always glorify the hunter. ~. ,. , the hunter. I think what that is alluding the hunter. I think what that is alluding to the hunter. I think what that is alluding to for the hunter. I think what that is alluding to for me the hunter. I think what that is alluding to for me anyway l the hunter. I think what that | is alluding to for me anyway is the fact that the british concealed a lot of the facts on what happened. I concealed a lot of the facts on what happened. What happened. I dont want to. I what happened. I dont want to. | stuff what happened. I dont want to. I stuff up. What happened. I dont want to. I stuff up. Absolutely. L to. I stuff up. Absolutely. When they to. I stuff up. Absolutely. When they left to. I stuff up. Absolutely. When they left india to. I stuff up. Absolutely. When they left india there l to. I stuff up. Absolutely. I when they left india there was a pall of smoke over delivers all the documents that were being burnt. If you look into the founders of nigeria, they went out of their way to destroy evidence of what they were doing. Even now, the personal records of lord mountbatten, the final visor of india are still officially sacred. It has taken a lot of time historians to catch up with what happened. You have only had one view of history which has been the view of the colonisers, but now were getting perspectives finally. What you seem to be saying as well, though, and again, you havejust well, though, and again, you have just told well, though, and again, you havejust told me i am open to both the contradictions and the complications of empire, what you seem to be saying more than anything else, correct me if i am wrong, is that there was a driver, a motivation with that man behind British Imperialism, and that was out and out racism. To quote you before you begin your answer, this is an important quote, the British Empire was a signal voice significant incubator, refiner and propagator of White Supremacy in the history of the planet. Supremacy in the history of the lanet. ,. Supremacy in the history of the lanet. , , planet. That is absolutely true for what planet. That is absolutely true for what empire planet. That is absolutely true for what empire was l planet. That is absolutely i true for what empire was like at the height of empire, but at the same time, because things can be true at the same time, visually British Empire was nonracist, at the same time imperialist london were taking on the racism of australian cognizance and saying you should moderate yourself. There is absolutely no question that the British Empire. The British Empire. Start to convoluted the British Empire. Start to convoluted the the British Empire. Start to convoluted the argument. I l the British Empire. Start to i convoluted the argument. I get a little confused. It was a Prime Motivator things force, racism or not . Racism or not . Absolutely at the height racism or not . Absolutely at the height of racism or not . Absolutely at the height of empire. Racism or not . Absolutely at the height of empire. When | the height of empire. When racial science emerged in the 19th century, had a distinctly british flavour. It became Something Else in germany and america but it was pretty much pretty racial signs. The British Empire became a kind of beacon for what is the premise around the world. You see it in the programme by Roger Kipling written by miss imperialist than that probe poem is about encouraging people in the philippines or the british david brown people across the world. , david brown people across the world. ,. , world. Those historians, and there are world. Those historians, and there are any world. Those historians, and there are any of world. Those historians, and there are any of them, world. Those historians, and i there are any of them, Andrew Roberts and many others who critique your history for being far too negative and condemnatory about British Imperialism, they point out that what you failed to do consistently is look at other forms of imperialism was for example, otherforms of example, other forms of european example, Otherforms Of European Imperialism by practice by the belgians in the Congo War The Germans in southwest africa, namibia as it now is, which were more brutally overtly racist than the British Empire ever was. I dont know how you measure racism. There is not a unit of racism. There is not a unit of racism but they have a bit of a point in that country with the biggest problem with imperialism, nostalgia at the moment is not written, it is rush up because jackie has a problem as well, the dutch in the recent survey were found to be more nostalgic about their empire that we are. Bud be more nostalgic about their empire that we are. And usually couldnt argue, empire that we are. And usually couldnt argue, in empire that we are. And usually couldnt argue, in this couldnt argue, in this argument about racism and importance of British Empire, that somehow, British Imperials racism wasnt incubator russian. Racism wasnt incubator russian. Racism wasnt incubator russian. ,. , russian. Absolutely not, they are separate. Russian. Absolutely not, they are separate. The russian. Absolutely not, they are separate. The whole russian. Absolutely not, they are separate. The whole point i are separate. The whole point of our are separate. The whole point of your book are separate. The whole point of your book is, are separate. The whole point of your book is, to are separate. The whole point of your book is, to quote are separate. The whole point of your book is, to quote the i of your book is, to quote the subtitle again, our British Imperialism shape the globe. And i wonder whether you are overreaching . Overreaching . No, the british Em Ire Overreaching . No, the British Empire was overreaching . No, the British Empire was a overreaching . No, the British Empire was a british overreaching . No, the British Empire was a British Empire i overreaching . No, the british. Empire was a British Empire empire was a British Empire biggest empire in history. That is why it matters perhaps more than the belgian of the dutch history. The legacies are real and profound, notjust within a 25 of the world that we colonised but beyond that, because the world had to deal with us. So i dont think there has been any kind of process of truth and reconciliation without history. Truth and reconciliation without history. What about consideration without history. What about consideration of without history. What about consideration of the without history. What aboutj consideration of the worlds, the societies, cultures that the societies, cultures that the British Empire impose itself upon . There isnt so much in the book about the way, for example, Nigerian Society worked in all of its complex, of course it wasnt nigeria then, but that part of west africa work before the British Imperialists arrived. You can say the same about other imperial projects that you dont spend too much time looking at what came before, and indeed, you dont spend that much time looking at the 75 years of history that went after British Empire. It is bi after British Empire. It is a big enough after British Empire. It is a big enough book after British Empire. It is a big enough book already i big enough book already 350,000 words long. First, Talking What Life was like. Isnt that important to much because by assuming that so much of what we see in those different territories is all about the British Empire, you may be missing elements of culture, society that were impaired judgement important for the british ever arrived. I do use an analogy in the middle of the book about how the British Empire was not like a school, there was a temptation that it was like a school with the headmaster in london, the classrooms representing the colonies, but actually because it took nine months to get a message between headmaster in the classroom, often the Classroom Behaviour in its own way. The teacher did what they wanted. 0ften way. The teacher did what they wanted. Often they already have rules which continued to activated and were only corrected when there was a crisis. I do think the book relentlessly acknowledges the complexity of history. H0. Relentlessly acknowledges the complexity of history. Complexity of history. No, it does constantly complexity of history. No, it does constantly reference i complexity of history. No, it does constantly reference a| does constantly reference a complexity. How would you explain the fact that your own grandfather, for example, had a great thought of admiration for the british and their empire, and you could look across the empire, from singapore where it is pretty obvious, to hong kong where again it is pretty obvious, countries like nigeria where there is a substantial number of people inside Nigeria Today look back with a degree of admiration, fondness on things that the British Empire gave them. Things that the British Empire gave them things that the British Empire ave them. ,. ,. , gave them. How do you explain that . I gave them. How do you explain that . L think gave them. How do you explain that . I think that gave them. How do you explain that . I think that is gave them. How do you explain that . I think that is what gave them. How do you explain that . I think that is what it that . I think that is what it was. Even candy, the most Famous Empire at one side of his life was quite into that when he was a lawyer. Empire was Different Things in different times of the day in india. It was Different Things in different parts of empire, it was definitely Different Things in different parts of people bothered lives. Your dad arrived from people bothered lives. Your dad arrived from india, people bothered lives. Your dad arrived from india, a people bothered lives. Your dad arrived from india, a punjabi arrived from india, a punjabi seat, actually very little education, pretty muc