Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240703 : vimarsana.com

Correspondent. Whats happening . Are here at bute house which is the First Ministers Official Residence where an unscheduled Cabinet Meeting is taking place. We had word early this morning they would be meeting early today. Lorna slater and Patrick Harvie, co leaders of the scottish greens, left bute house this morning before that Cabinet Meeting got under way and we have now had confirmation that that meeting was bringing an end to the Power Sharing Agreement that had beenin Power Sharing Agreement that had been in place in scotland since the 2021 election. A Power Sharing Agreement between the snp after they fell short of winning a majority in that election involving the scottish greens helping them in government with two green ministers in place. Weve just had reaction from the scottish greens to the end of that agreement. The Scottish Greens Co leader lorna slater today accusing the snp of selling out future generations by walking away from the Bute House Agreement. She said it was an act of political cowardice by the snp who are selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. We now know that agreement has been brought to an end by humza yousaf. The greens have been due to have a vote of their membership on whether to continue with that agreement that came after, unhappiness over the watering down of Climate Targets in scotland and the reaction to the cas review into gender Identity Services. Green members wanted to have a vote over whether to continue in the Power Sharing Agreement but its now been brought to an abrupt end by the First Minister. We understand he had been under some pressure from figures within his own party to bring the agreement to an end. We also understand there were some demands coming from the greens that perhaps the Scottish Government felt it would be unable to meet Andy Agreement was no longer workable. The snp will now be trying to function as a Minority Government at holyrood. Function as a Minority Government at hol rood. , . , holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to function holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to function as holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to function as a holyrood. How difficult will it be l for them to function as a Minority Government . Its going to be tricky for the snp. They had been relying on those green votes in parliament. The greens have eight msps, theyve been propping them up making sure their legislation and key things such as their budget were passed, allowing their budget were passed, allowing the government to run smoothly, allowing them to pursue their legislative agenda at holyrood. They are no longer going to necessarily be able to rely on those votes and it sounds from those comments that this has been an acrimonious split so the greens may not feel able to support the government in some parts of their legislative agenda and it will be done on a case by case basis. That will leave the snp looking to other parties at holyrood, the scottish conservatives, Scottish Labour and the lib dems to see if they can support them. They will be looking at trying to get votes to back up their legislation on a bill by bill, case by case basis and when it comes to Something Like their budget they will have to enter those negotiations with the other parties and give concessions to try to get that through. And give concessions to try to get that through that through. Presumably connotations that through. Presumably connotations the that through. Presumably connotations the humza l that through. Presumably connotations the humza yousaf but also the Green Leadership. We know that Patrick Harvie had said he would quit if the coalition fell apart. Tell us about humza yousaf, does it strengthen or weaken his position . What happens with the Green Leadership . In position . What happens with the Green Leadership . Position . What happens with the Green Leadership . In terms of the ureen Green Leadership . In terms of the Green Leadership Green Leadership . In terms of the Green Leadership we Green Leadership . In terms of the Green Leadership we had Green Leadership . In terms of the Green Leadership we had heard i Green Leadership . In terms of the i Green Leadership we had heard from Patrick Harvie that he would resign as co leader of the scottish greens if his membership voted to leave the Bute House Agreement. We will speak to reporters in the Scottish Parliament soon. Donna slater had said she wasnt talking about whether or not she would leave lorna slater. But if Patrick Harvie does follow through, that would leave the greens looking for another co leader to replace him and what direction he would take part in. Humza yousaf was saying he valued the greens in government, that he would hopefully vote to stay in the Bute House Agreement. He wanted it to continue. Its quite the u turn just a wanted it to continue. Its quite the u turnjust a couple wanted it to continue. Its quite the u turn just a couple of days time to now be saying he is bringing to an end. I think humza yousaf� s future will now depend on how successfully he can run a Minority Government at holyrood. 0f can run a Minority Government at holyrood. Of course we have that General Election coming up later this year as well and his success there is going to be part of what will define his first year as leader. , ,. ,. , leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, leader. How is the snp doing at the moment. Under leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure of leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure of a l moment, under the pressure of a General Election . I moment, under the pressure of a General Election . General election . I think they are feelin General Election . I think they are feeling the General Election . I think they are feeling the pressure General Election . I think they are feeling the pressure from General Election . I think they are feeling the pressure from labour| General Election . I think they are l feeling the pressure from labour in scotland when you look at polling. Labour is creeping up on the snp. They could be stealing some seats from the snp if polling is anything to go by and they are feeling that pressure on their backs. The snp has not had its troubles since humza yousaf became leader and he is going to want to shore up their position at westminster if his leadership is going to continue successfully. Tell us about some going to continue successfully. Tell us about some of the policies that perhaps were unpopular that meant that perhaps the snp decided that if they cut away from the greens, they would have a chance of moving away from policies that people felt were not cutting through. From policies that people felt were not cutting through. There had been criticism coming not cutting through. There had been criticism coming from not cutting through. There had been criticism coming from opposition criticism coming from Opposition Parties to the Scottish Government over their handling of issues around gender, for example, the Gender Recognition Reform Bill which got held up in the courts by the uk government that sought to seek to change how people could have their gender legally recognised. The First Minister was under pressure over that piece of legislation. The greens were seen as the ones that were pushing for that legislation to be taken through the Scottish Parliament and seen as having an influence over the Scottish Government on those issues around gender and more recently, the findings of the cass review which looked at gender Identity Services for under 18s in nhs england how the Scottish Government was going to respond to that. So that is part of it. There were also those Climate Change targets that were watered down at holyrood last week and there was a significant amount of anger within the greens membership over the green party agreeing to that with the Scottish Government. Were the greens perhaps trying to extract more from the Scottish Government by way of green policies that the government didnt feel it could sign up government didnt feel it could sign up to . We will probably find out more from the greens and the Scottish Government later today on the reasons for why the Bute House Agreement came to an end, but those were some of the policy areas that were some of the policy areas that were causing this pressure on the First Minister. Were causing this pressure on the First Minister. Lynsey bews, thank ou. Let First Minister. Lynsey bews, thank yom let speak First Minister. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to First Minister. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to kathleen First Minister. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to kathleen nut, l First Minister. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to kathleen nut, aj you. Let speak to kathleen nut, a Political Correspondent at the herald. What is your assessment of what is happening here . Its a what is happening here . Its a fastpaced what is happening here . Its a fastpaced story. What is happening here . Its a fastpaced story. Im what is happening here . Its a fastpaced story. Im just what is happening here . It� s. Fast paced story. Im just reading the statement from the Scottish Greens Co leader lorna slater at the moment, who is accusing the snp of selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. She has confirmed that the deal is over with the snp. The scottish greens are out of power now. There is a bute House Press Conference at ten oclock which will be addressed by the First Minister. There are questions over whether he will be continuing as snp leader. I have spoken to one senior figure in the party, who pointed out that humza yousaf had stood on a platform during the snp Leadership Contest of continuing with the Bute House Agreement and he described it as a gold plated agreement with them that was worth its weight in gold. So by implication, now that that deal with the greens is over, whether he will be continuing as leader is a matter of interest in scotland. How be continuing as leader is a matter of interest in scotland. Of interest in scotland. How would that work . Of interest in scotland. How would that work . If of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his leadership of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his leadership is of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his leadership is in i that work . If his leadership is in question, what would they need to do to try and get him out, or would it be a decision he would make . From what we saw be a decision he would make . From what we saw last be a decision he would make . From what we saw last year be a decision he would make . From what we saw last year with be a decision he would make . Frr� n what we saw last year with Nicola Sturgeon, that was her decision to stand down as snp leader. She called a bute House Press Conference where she made the announcement in february last year. Then there was an snp leadership competition in which humza yousaf put himself forward. He was the preferred candidate of Nicola Sturgeon at the time come described as the continuity candidate. He won the race, narrowly beating kate forbes, who had wanted the party to go in a different direction. We dont know whether humza yousaf is going to stand down or whether he is simply going to be announcing the end of the Bute House Agreement today, but should he decide to stand down, there will be an snp Leadership Contest, presumably. Tell there will be an snp Leadership Contest, presumably. There will be an snp Leadership Contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. Contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. He contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. He has contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. He has had has been getting on. He has had rebellions within his own party as well as what seems like this acrimonious dispute with the greens. Yes, the Leadership Contest was pretty bitter, to say the least. Since then, the divisions in the party havent settled down. It was expected that he would give kate forbes a senior role in government. She had been finance secretary, but he just offered her Rural Affairs secretary. That was seen by some as a demotion. It wasnt necessarily seen by kate forbes in that way, but she said there were issues in terms of Government Policy and she didnt feel she could take up the post of Rural Affairs secretary because of her disagreements with government. There has been some concern among rebels in the party about the direction of the government and long standing concerns about the Bute House Agreement with the greens. Some in the party believe the agreement has led to a drop in support for the snp. But there are also controversies over some policies such as the Deposit Returns again, a recycling scheme, opposed by people like a former Cabinet Secretary who is now a prominent snp rebel. The scheme was scrapped. There have also been concerns about a movement to restrict fishing in some communities, and that was also shelved amid concerns from fishermen that it was going to damage their industry. Again, that was a policy which many in the snp were glad to see the back of. So which many in the snp were glad to see the back of. See the back of. So there are some olitical see the back of. So there are some political advantages see the back of. So there are some political advantages for see the back of. So there are some political advantages for the see the back of. So there are some political advantages for the snp. See the back of. So there are some political advantages for the snp to | political advantages for the snp to ditch these controversial policies. Would you say the advantages outweigh the disadvantages . Well, those policies have been shelved and they were not popular. The disadvantage if there is a Minority Government is that, as your reporter was saying, they have to negotiate with parties on a case by case basis to get legislation through government. But saying that, at the weekend, the Scottish Greens Co leader First Minister<\/a>s Official Residence<\/a> where an unscheduled Cabinet Meeting<\/a> is taking place. We had word early this morning they would be meeting early today. Lorna slater and Patrick Harvie<\/a>, co leaders of the scottish greens, left bute house this morning before that Cabinet Meeting<\/a> got under way and we have now had confirmation that that meeting was bringing an end to the Power Sharing Agreement<\/a> that had beenin Power Sharing Agreement<\/a> that had been in place in scotland since the 2021 election. A Power Sharing Agreement<\/a> between the snp after they fell short of winning a majority in that election involving the scottish greens helping them in government with two green ministers in place. Weve just had reaction from the scottish greens to the end of that agreement. The Scottish Greens Co<\/a> leader lorna slater today accusing the snp of selling out future generations by walking away from the Bute House Agreement<\/a>. She said it was an act of political cowardice by the snp who are selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. We now know that agreement has been brought to an end by humza yousaf. The greens have been due to have a vote of their membership on whether to continue with that agreement that came after, unhappiness over the watering down of Climate Targets<\/a> in scotland and the reaction to the cas review into gender Identity Services<\/a>. Green members wanted to have a vote over whether to continue in the Power Sharing Agreement<\/a> but its now been brought to an abrupt end by the First Minister<\/a>. We understand he had been under some pressure from figures within his own party to bring the agreement to an end. We also understand there were some demands coming from the greens that perhaps the Scottish Government<\/a> felt it would be unable to meet Andy Agreement<\/a> was no longer workable. The snp will now be trying to function as a Minority Government<\/a> at holyrood. Function as a Minority Government<\/a> at hol rood. , . , holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to function holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to function as holyrood. How difficult will it be for them to function as a holyrood. How difficult will it be l for them to function as a Minority Government<\/a> . Its going to be tricky for the snp. They had been relying on those green votes in parliament. The greens have eight msps, theyve been propping them up making sure their legislation and key things such as their budget were passed, allowing their budget were passed, allowing the government to run smoothly, allowing them to pursue their legislative agenda at holyrood. They are no longer going to necessarily be able to rely on those votes and it sounds from those comments that this has been an acrimonious split so the greens may not feel able to support the government in some parts of their legislative agenda and it will be done on a case by case basis. That will leave the snp looking to other parties at holyrood, the scottish conservatives, Scottish Labour<\/a> and the lib dems to see if they can support them. They will be looking at trying to get votes to back up their legislation on a bill by bill, case by case basis and when it comes to Something Like<\/a> their budget they will have to enter those negotiations with the other parties and give concessions to try to get that through. And give concessions to try to get that through that through. Presumably connotations that through. Presumably connotations the that through. Presumably connotations the humza l that through. Presumably connotations the humza yousaf but also the Green Leadership<\/a>. We know that Patrick Harvie<\/a> had said he would quit if the coalition fell apart. Tell us about humza yousaf, does it strengthen or weaken his position . What happens with the Green Leadership<\/a> . In position . What happens with the Green Leadership<\/a> . Position . What happens with the Green Leadership<\/a> . In terms of the ureen Green Leadership<\/a> . In terms of the Green Leadership<\/a> Green Leadership<\/a> . In terms of the Green Leadership<\/a> we Green Leadership<\/a> . In terms of the Green Leadership<\/a> we had Green Leadership<\/a> . In terms of the Green Leadership<\/a> we had heard i Green Leadership<\/a> . In terms of the i Green Leadership<\/a> we had heard from Patrick Harvie<\/a> that he would resign as co leader of the scottish greens if his membership voted to leave the Bute House Agreement<\/a>. We will speak to reporters in the Scottish Parliament<\/a> soon. Donna slater had said she wasnt talking about whether or not she would leave lorna slater. But if Patrick Harvie<\/a> does follow through, that would leave the greens looking for another co leader to replace him and what direction he would take part in. Humza yousaf was saying he valued the greens in government, that he would hopefully vote to stay in the Bute House Agreement<\/a>. He wanted it to continue. Its quite the u turn just a wanted it to continue. Its quite the u turnjust a couple wanted it to continue. Its quite the u turn just a couple of days time to now be saying he is bringing to an end. I think humza yousaf\ufffd s future will now depend on how successfully he can run a Minority Government<\/a> at holyrood. 0f can run a Minority Government<\/a> at holyrood. Of course we have that General Election<\/a> coming up later this year as well and his success there is going to be part of what will define his first year as leader. , ,. ,. , leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, leader. How is the snp doing at the moment. Under leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure of leader. How is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure of a l moment, under the pressure of a General Election<\/a> . I moment, under the pressure of a General Election<\/a> . General election . I think they are feelin General Election<\/a> . I think they are feeling the General Election<\/a> . I think they are feeling the pressure General Election<\/a> . I think they are feeling the pressure from General Election<\/a> . I think they are feeling the pressure from labour| General Election<\/a> . I think they are l feeling the pressure from labour in scotland when you look at polling. Labour is creeping up on the snp. They could be stealing some seats from the snp if polling is anything to go by and they are feeling that pressure on their backs. The snp has not had its troubles since humza yousaf became leader and he is going to want to shore up their position at westminster if his leadership is going to continue successfully. Tell us about some going to continue successfully. Tell us about some of the policies that perhaps were unpopular that meant that perhaps the snp decided that if they cut away from the greens, they would have a chance of moving away from policies that people felt were not cutting through. From policies that people felt were not cutting through. There had been criticism coming not cutting through. There had been criticism coming from not cutting through. There had been criticism coming from opposition criticism coming from Opposition Parties<\/a> to the Scottish Government<\/a> over their handling of issues around gender, for example, the Gender Recognition Reform Bill<\/a> which got held up in the courts by the uk government that sought to seek to change how people could have their gender legally recognised. The First Minister<\/a> was under pressure over that piece of legislation. The greens were seen as the ones that were pushing for that legislation to be taken through the Scottish Parliament<\/a> and seen as having an influence over the Scottish Government<\/a> on those issues around gender and more recently, the findings of the cass review which looked at gender Identity Services<\/a> for under 18s in nhs england how the Scottish Government<\/a> was going to respond to that. So that is part of it. There were also those Climate Change<\/a> targets that were watered down at holyrood last week and there was a significant amount of anger within the greens membership over the green party agreeing to that with the Scottish Government<\/a>. Were the greens perhaps trying to extract more from the Scottish Government<\/a> by way of green policies that the government didnt feel it could sign up government didnt feel it could sign up to . We will probably find out more from the greens and the Scottish Government<\/a> later today on the reasons for why the Bute House Agreement<\/a> came to an end, but those were some of the policy areas that were some of the policy areas that were causing this pressure on the First Minister<\/a>. Were causing this pressure on the First Minister<\/a>. Lynsey bews, thank ou. Let First Minister<\/a>. Lynsey bews, thank yom let speak First Minister<\/a>. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to First Minister<\/a>. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to kathleen First Minister<\/a>. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to kathleen nut, l First Minister<\/a>. Lynsey bews, thank you. Let speak to kathleen nut, aj you. Let speak to kathleen nut, a Political Correspondent<\/a> at the herald. What is your assessment of what is happening here . Its a what is happening here . Its a fastpaced what is happening here . Its a fastpaced story. What is happening here . Its a fastpaced story. Im what is happening here . Its a fastpaced story. Im just what is happening here . It\ufffd s. Fast paced story. Im just reading the statement from the Scottish Greens Co<\/a> leader lorna slater at the moment, who is accusing the snp of selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. She has confirmed that the deal is over with the snp. The scottish greens are out of power now. There is a bute House Press Conference<\/a> at ten oclock which will be addressed by the First Minister<\/a>. There are questions over whether he will be continuing as snp leader. I have spoken to one senior figure in the party, who pointed out that humza yousaf had stood on a platform during the snp Leadership Contest<\/a> of continuing with the Bute House Agreement<\/a> and he described it as a gold plated agreement with them that was worth its weight in gold. So by implication, now that that deal with the greens is over, whether he will be continuing as leader is a matter of interest in scotland. How be continuing as leader is a matter of interest in scotland. Of interest in scotland. How would that work . Of interest in scotland. How would that work . If of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his leadership of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his leadership is of interest in scotland. How would that work . If his leadership is in i that work . If his leadership is in question, what would they need to do to try and get him out, or would it be a decision he would make . From what we saw be a decision he would make . From what we saw last be a decision he would make . From what we saw last year be a decision he would make . From what we saw last year with be a decision he would make . Frr\ufffd n what we saw last year with Nicola Sturgeon<\/a>, that was her decision to stand down as snp leader. She called a bute House Press Conference<\/a> where she made the announcement in february last year. Then there was an snp leadership competition in which humza yousaf put himself forward. He was the preferred candidate of Nicola Sturgeon<\/a> at the time come described as the continuity candidate. He won the race, narrowly beating kate forbes, who had wanted the party to go in a different direction. We dont know whether humza yousaf is going to stand down or whether he is simply going to be announcing the end of the Bute House Agreement<\/a> today, but should he decide to stand down, there will be an snp Leadership Contest<\/a>, presumably. Tell there will be an snp Leadership Contest<\/a>, presumably. There will be an snp Leadership Contest<\/a>, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. Contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. He contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. He has contest, presumably. Tell us how he has been getting on. He has had has been getting on. He has had rebellions within his own party as well as what seems like this acrimonious dispute with the greens. Yes, the Leadership Contest<\/a> was pretty bitter, to say the least. Since then, the divisions in the party havent settled down. It was expected that he would give kate forbes a senior role in government. She had been finance secretary, but he just offered her Rural Affairs<\/a> secretary. That was seen by some as a demotion. It wasnt necessarily seen by kate forbes in that way, but she said there were issues in terms of Government Policy<\/a> and she didnt feel she could take up the post of Rural Affairs<\/a> secretary because of her disagreements with government. There has been some concern among rebels in the party about the direction of the government and long standing concerns about the Bute House Agreement<\/a> with the greens. Some in the party believe the agreement has led to a drop in support for the snp. But there are also controversies over some policies such as the Deposit Returns<\/a> again, a recycling scheme, opposed by people like a former Cabinet Secretary<\/a> who is now a prominent snp rebel. The scheme was scrapped. There have also been concerns about a movement to restrict fishing in some communities, and that was also shelved amid concerns from fishermen that it was going to damage their industry. Again, that was a policy which many in the snp were glad to see the back of. So which many in the snp were glad to see the back of. See the back of. So there are some olitical see the back of. So there are some political advantages see the back of. So there are some political advantages for see the back of. So there are some political advantages for the see the back of. So there are some political advantages for the snp. See the back of. So there are some political advantages for the snp to | political advantages for the snp to ditch these controversial policies. Would you say the advantages outweigh the disadvantages . Well, those policies have been shelved and they were not popular. The disadvantage if there is a Minority Government<\/a> is that, as your reporter was saying, they have to negotiate with parties on a case by case basis to get legislation through government. But saying that, at the weekend, the Scottish Greens Co<\/a> leader Patrick Harvie<\/a> said that at the time, it was thought that the greens might be the ones to ditch the agreement rather than the snp. Patrick harvie said that if they came out of the pact with the government, they would work with the government, they would work with the government, they would work with the minority Scottish Government<\/a>. That was the stance that kate forbes took in her Leadership Campaign<\/a> last year. She pointed to the fact that there has previously been scottish men are under alex salmond and Nicola Sturgeon<\/a>, there has been scottish Minority Government<\/a>s and others people and they have been able to get legislation through by negotiating with individual parties and in some cases individual msps. Cases individual msps. Kathleen nutt, political cases individual msps. Kathleen nutt, Political Correspondent<\/a>. Cases individual msps. Kathleen nutt, Political Correspondent<\/a> at| cases individual msps. Kathleen i nutt, Political Correspondent<\/a> at the herald, thank you very much. We will keep an eye on that story. In the meantime, the post Office Inquiry<\/a> continues today with a former post Office Executive<\/a> who is described as knowing more about the faulty Horizon System<\/a> than anyone else giving evidence at the inquiry. Angela van den bogerd was the most important person in the legal action taken and wasjudged important person in the legal action taken and was judged heavily for giving misleading evidence. Angela is our head of Network Services<\/a>. She was Paula Vennells<\/a> right hand woman one of the big characters in the drama at the centre of so many ruined lives. Were all so sorry for your loss. Bogerd was personally involved in many cases. Desperate he was really desperate. And overseeing complaints from Sub Postmasters<\/a>. She was also involved in the Mediation Scheme<\/a>, supposed to help them. Angela van den bogerd, head of partnerships. Here she is sitting next to ceo Paula Vennells<\/a> before mps when they were told the post office had found no evidence of any miscarriages ofjustice. What weve wanted to do and been very committed to doing is doing a thorough investigation on each of the issues raised by each of the applications. Weve not dragged our feet. But this was all part of the alleged cover up. Ive managed to find some letters. Later that year, parmod kalia got a letter from angela. He was wrongly convicted of stealing from his post office in 2001 and sent to prison. He wrote in after seeing a bbc panorama, asking the post office to look again at his case. Horizon does not have functionality that allows post office or fujitsu to edit or delete the transactions recorded by branches. Well. That wasnt correct. We know its not correct. She finishes by saying, if you think youve been wrongly convicted, get a solicitor. When i saw that, i literally did collapse on the floor, knowing theres no way i can get a solicitor and sue them in court. What has the post office done to you, parmod . Theyve broken me, broken me. 22 odd years. Lost. Never going to get that time back with the family with work or anything. How important is it for you to see her answer questions now . I need to know, has she finally understood and accepted where she was wrong and maybe put her hands up and say, yeah, sorry. That would mean a lot to us. Its a big moment for the inquiry, too. Shes a person whose finger was in lots of pies. She made a lot of big decisions. So shes got a lot to answer for. Angela van den bogerd has already said she would cooperate fully and willingly with the inquiry. Youll be hard pushed to find an empty seat in this room today. Emma simpson, bbc news. Lets ta ke lets take you straight to the inquiry now. Lets take you straight to the inquiry now lets take you straight to the inuui now. ,. ,. ,. , inquiry now. Devastation caused to ou, our inquiry now. Devastation caused to you. Your Family Inquiry<\/a> now. Devastation caused to you, your family and inquiry now. Devastation caused to you, your family and friends. Inquiry now. Devastation caused to you, your family and friends. I inquiry now. Devastation caused to | you, your family and friends. I hope you, yourfamily and friends. I hope my evidence will assist this inquiry with getting to the answers you and so many others deserve. Thank you. Thank you. Can we look at the two witness thank you. Can we look at the two witness statements, please . The first is witness statements, please . The first is 114 witness statements, please . The first is 114 pages long, dated the 20th first is 114 pages long, dated the 20th of first is 114 pages long, dated the 20th of march, 2014. And it is urn witn 1100. And it is urn witn1100. I think and it is urn witn1100. I think there and it is urn witn1100. I think there are and it is urn witn1100. I think there are seven corrections that you wish to there are seven corrections that you wish to make to that statement. Can we start wish to make to that statement. Can we start with the first of those, which we start with the first of those, which is we start with the first of those, which is page 21, paragraph 36 . I think which is page 21, paragraph 36 . I think there which is page 21, paragraph 36 . I think there is an addition that you would think there is an addition that you would like think there is an addition that you would like to make to the end of paragraph would like to make to the end of paragraph 36 to insert the following words further disclosure pol 8171 shows i initialed further disclosure pol 8171 shows i initiated the provision and analysis of the initiated the provision and analysis of the horizon logs in respect of the unexplained loss at the branch. I will the unexplained loss at the branch. I will read the unexplained loss at the branch. I will read that back without the two urns. Further Disclosure Shows<\/a> i initiated two urns. Further Disclosure Shows<\/a> i initiated the provision and analysis of the initiated the provision and analysis of the horizon logs in respect of the unexplained loss at the branch. That is the unexplained loss at the branch. That is correct, thank you. The second amendment, page 31, please. Paragraph 62, in line eight, which reads. Paragraph 62, in line eight, which reads. This paragraph 62, in line eight, which reads, this was the first time i had ever ended reads, this was the first time i had ever ended an interview, surrey, attended ever ended an interview, surrey, attended an interview with a sub postmaster. I think you want to add the sub postmaster. I think you want to add the words this type of after the word add the words this type of after the word attended so that it reads this the word attended so that it reads this was the word attended so that it reads this was the first time i had ever attended this was the first time i had ever attended this type of interview. That is attended this type of interview. That is correct, thank you. Page 38, lease. Paragraph 77, line seven. You would like to paragraph 77, line seven. You would like to amend the date 10th Of March 2012<\/a> to like to amend the date 10th Of March 2012<\/a> to the like to amend the date 10th Of March 2012<\/a> to the 10th of may, 2012. That is correct. 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. That is correct page 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. That is correct. Page 65, 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. That is correct. Page 65, please. Line one. I think you would like to delete line one. I think you would like to delete the line one. I think you would like to delete the words as the terms of reference delete the words as the terms of reference have not been disclosed. That is reference have not been disclosed. That is correct, because i have seen them since i put this together. 50 them since i put this together. So that it would read from memory, the project that it would read from memory, the project was that it would read from memory, the project was to oversee. Project was to oversee. Correct. Pa. E project was to oversee. Correct. Page 104. Project was to oversee. Correct. Page 104, please. Paragraph 223 b, which is at the foot cf paragraph 223 b, which is at the foot of the paragraph 223 b, which is at the foot of the page. I think you would like to foot of the page. I think you would like to add foot of the page. I think you would like to add the words from memory at the like to add the words from memory at the beginning of the paragraph so that it at the beginning of the paragraph so that it reads, from memory, my involvement. That it reads, from memory, my involvement. And that it reads, from memory, my involvement. And then | that it reads, from memory, my l involvement. And then at involvement. Correct. And then at the end of involvement. Correct. And then at the end of the involvement. Correct. And then at the end of the paragraph, involvement. Correct. And then at the end of the paragraph, add involvement. Correct. And then at the end of the paragraph, add thej the end of the paragraph, add the following the end of the paragraph, add the following words however, further disclosed following words however, further disclosed documents show i was involved disclosed documents show i was involved in discussions regarding overlaps involved in discussions regarding overlaps between witness statements. Overlaps between witness statements. M statements. That is correct. Page 109, please statements. That is correct. Page 109, please. Paragraph statements. That is correct. Page 109, please. Paragraph 229. Statements. That is correct. Page 109, please. Paragraph 229. At. Statements. That is correct. Page | 109, please. Paragraph 229. At the end of 109, please. Paragraph 229. At the end of the 109, please. Paragraph 229. At the end of the paragraph, you would like to add end of the paragraph, you would like to add the end of the paragraph, you would like to add the words further Disclosure Shows<\/a> to add the words further Disclosure Shows<\/a> me to add the words further Disclosure Shows<\/a> me raising my concerns to andrew shows me raising my concerns to andrew parsons. Correct. Further disclosure andrew parsons. Correct. Further Disclosure Shows<\/a> me raising my concerns Disclosure Shows<\/a> me raising my concerns to andrew parsons. Can you turn to concerns to andrew parsons. Can you turn to the concerns to andrew parsons. Can you turn to the final edge of the statement. Is that your signature . Yes statement. Is that your signature . Yes. \ufffd. , statement. Is that your signature . Yes. , yes. And with those corrections brou. Ht yes. And with those corrections brought into yes. And with those corrections brought into account, yes. And with those corrections brought into account, are yes. And with those corrections brought into account, are those statements are true . They are. Can we turn statements are true . They are. Can we turn to statements are true . They are. Can we turn to the second witness statement, which is seven pages long statement, which is seven pages long i statement, which is seven pages long. I think there is one correction you would like to make to that, correction you would like to make to that, which correction you would like to make to that, which is on page six. Paragraph 16. I think you would like to delete paragraph 16. I think you would like to delete the words whilst i cannot, to delete the words whilst i cannot, starting three lines from the bottom, until the end of the paragraph. The bottom, until the end of the paragraph the bottom, until the end of the paragraph so the bottom, until the end of the paragraph. So all i the bottom, until the end of the| paragraph. So all of paragraph. Thats right. So all of that ae~ paragraph. Thats right. So all of that page and paragraph. Thats right. So all of that page and over paragraph. Thats right. So all of that page and over the paragraph. Thats right. So all of that page and over the page paragraph. Thats right. So all of that page and over the page to l paragraph. Thats right. So all of i that page and over the page to the words that page and over the page to the words of that page and over the page to the words of the scheme. And instead insert words of the scheme. And instead insert the words of the scheme. And instead insert the words Helpline Calls<\/a> were insert the words Helpline Calls<\/a> were not insert the words Helpline Calls<\/a> were not audio recorded at the time. It were not audio recorded at the time. It was were not audio recorded at the time. It was the were not audio recorded at the time. It was the call logs that were used for the it was the call logs that were used for the scheme investigations. That is correct, thank for the scheme investigations. Trial is correct, thank you. For the scheme investigations. That is correct, thank you. Sorry, for the scheme investigations. That is correct, thank you. Sorry, there i is correct, thank you. Sorry, there are two sentences is correct, thank you. Sorry, there are two sentences ending is correct, thank you. Sorry, there are two sentences ending with are two sentences ending with scheme are two sentences ending with scheme. There are two sentences ending with scheme. There is are two sentences ending with scheme. There is the are two sentences ending with scheme. There is the first are two sentences ending with scheme. There is the first line j are two sentences ending with scheme. There is the first line and the third scheme. There is the first line and the third line scheme. There is the first line and the third line. Where scheme. There is the first line and the third line. Where do scheme. There is the first line and the third line. Where do i scheme. There is the first line and the third line. Where do i stop the third line. Where do i stop deleting . The third line. Where do i stop deleting . Its the third line. Where do i stop deletinr . H. , the third line. Where do i stop deletinr . \ufffd ,. , deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine. Deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine and deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine. And could deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine. And could you deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine. And could you tell deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine. And could you tell me i deleting . Its to the end, sir. Fine. And could you tell me again what fine. And could you tell me again what the fine. And could you tell me again what The Collection<\/a> fine. And could you tell me again what The Collection<\/a> includes fine. And could you tell me again what The Collection<\/a> includes by. Fine. And could you tell me again. What The Collection<\/a> includes by way of additional what The Collection<\/a> includes by way of additional words . What The Collection<\/a> includes by way of additional words . Yes what The Collection<\/a> includes by way of additional words . Of additionalwords . Yes Helpline Calls<\/a> were not of additionalwords . Yes Helpline Calls<\/a> were not audio of additionalwords . Yes Helpline Calls<\/a> were not audio recorded of additionalwords . Yes Helpline Calls<\/a> were not audio recorded at i of additional words . Yes helpline. Calls were not audio recorded at the time calls were not audio recorded at the time it calls were not audio recorded at the time it was calls were not audio recorded at the time. It was the call logs that were used time. It was the call logs that were used for time. It was the call logs that were used for the scheme investigations. Thank used for the scheme investigations. Thank you used for the scheme investigations. Thank you very much. Is that your signature thank you very much. Is that your signature on thank you very much. Is that your signature on page seven . Yes. And are the signature on page seven . Yes. And are the contents of the statement true to are the contents of the statement true to the are the contents of the statement true to the best of your knowledge with that true to the best of your knowledge with that correction brought into account . With that correction brought into account . , with that correction brought into account . Yes. Thank you. Can i start with our account . Yes. Thank you. Can i start with your career account . Yes. Thank you. Can i start with your career at account . Jazz thank you. Can i start with your career at the post account . 19 3 thank you. Can i start with your career at the post office . You had with your career at the post office . You had an with your career at the post office . You had an extensive career at the post office you had an extensive career at the post office spanning some 35 years. Correct post office spanning some 35 years. Correct. , ,. , correct. You first Oin The Post Office<\/a> in 1985, correct. You first jOin The Post Office<\/a> in 1985, straight correct. You first jOin The Post Office<\/a> in 1985, straight from i office in 1985, straight from School Office<\/a> in 1985, straight from school. Office in 1985, straight from school. He office in 1985, straight from school. He began office in 1985, straight from school. He began as i office in 1985, straight from school. He began as a | office in 1985, straight from school. Yes. He began as a post Office Counter<\/a> school. 193 he began as a post Office Counter<\/a> assistant, working the counters, a person who rose up through the counters, a person who rose up through the the counters, a person who rose up through the organisation, holding numerous through the organisation, holding numerous managerial roles. That is correct numerous managerial roles. That is correct can numerous managerial roles. That is correct can i numerous managerial roles. That is correct. Can i outline your career path correct. Can i outline your career path as correct. Can i outline your career path as i correct. Can i outline your career path as i have understood it . In summary path as i have understood it . In summary as follows, you were a counter summary as follows, you were a Counter Assistant<\/a> between 1985 and 1987. Correct. You were a Branch Manager<\/a> 1987. Correct. You were a Branch Manager<\/a> between 1987 and 1996. You were a manager between 1987 and 1996. You were a Retail Network<\/a> manager between were a Retail Network<\/a> manager between 1996 and 2001. You were the head of between 1996 and 2001. You were the head of area for the rural agency in wales head of area for the rural agency in wales between 2001 and 2005. You were the wales between 2001 and 2005. You were the General Manager<\/a> for the Community Network<\/a> of branches between Community Network<\/a> of branches between 2005 and 2006. You were the national between 2005 and 2006. You were the National Network<\/a> Development Manager<\/a> between National Network<\/a> Development Manager<\/a> between 2006 and 2009. You were the networked between 2006 and 2009. You were the Networked Change<\/a> Operations Manager<\/a> between Networked Change<\/a> Operations Manager<\/a> between 2009 10. You were ahead of network between 2009 10. You were ahead of Network Services<\/a> between 2010 and 2012 Network Services<\/a> between 2010 and 2012 you Network Services<\/a> between 2010 and 2012. You were head of partnerships between 2012. You were head of partnerships between 2012 13. You were Programme Director<\/a> for the barnstaple programme between 201315 barnstaple programme between 201315. You barnstaple programme between 2013 15. You were director of support 2013 15. You were director of Support Services<\/a> between 2015 16. You have Support Services<\/a> between 2015 16. You have a Support Services<\/a> between 2015 16. You have a change director between 201718~ you have a change director between 201718. You you have a change director between 2017 18. You were Services Director<\/a> in 2018. 2017 18. You were Services Director<\/a> in 2018. And 2017 18. You were Services Director<\/a> in 2018, and you were a Business Improvement<\/a> director between 20182020. Improvement director between 20182020 Improvement Director<\/a> between i 20182020. Given 20182020. That is correct. Given the [en. Th 20182020. That is correct. Given the length and 20182020. That is correct. Given the length and breadth 20182020. That is correct. Given the length and breadth of 20182020. That is correct. Given the length and breadth of your. The length and breadth of your career. The length and breadth of your career, do you accept that you had extensive career, do you accept that you had extensive contact with and understanding of the position of Sub Postmasters<\/a> . | understanding of the position of subpostmasters . Understanding of the position of Sub Postmasters<\/a> . I did. Do you agree subpostmasters . I did. Do you agree that ou subpostmasters . I did. Do you agree that you lived Sub Postmasters<\/a> . L c c do you agree that you lived through the development, and the role of horizon . Development, and the role of horizon . Yes. You lived through the rollout horizon . Yes. You lived through the rollout of horizon . Yes. You lived through the roll out of the Impact Programme<\/a>. Sorry. Roll out of the Impact Programme<\/a>. Sorry. The roll out of the Impact Programme<\/a>. Sorry, the Impact Programme<\/a> . Do rollout of the Impact Programme<\/a>. Sorry, the Impact Programme<\/a> . Do you not remember sorry, the Impact Programme<\/a> . Do you not remember the sorry, the Impact Programme<\/a> . Do you not remember the impact sorry, the Impact Programme<\/a> . Do you | not remember the Impact Programme<\/a> . No. 1 z not remember the Impact Programme<\/a> . No. i am not remember the Impact Programme<\/a> . No i am not not remember the Impact Programme<\/a> . No. 2005. I am not familiar with that. Do no. 2005. I am not familiar with that do you no. 2005. I am not familiar with that. Do you accept no. 2005. I am not familiar with that. Do you accept that no. 2005. I am not familiar with that. Do you accept that you no. 2005. I am not familiar with l that. Do you accept that you lived throu. H that. Do you accept that you lived through the that. Do you accept that you lived through the move that. Do you accept that you lived through the move to that. Do you accept that you lived through the move to horizon that. Do you accept that you lived i through the move to horizon online in 2010 . Through the move to horizon online in 2010 . Yes. The production of that ismay in 2010 . Yes. The production of that ismay report in 2010 . Yes. The production of that ismay report in 2010 . Yes. The production ismay report in 2010 . Yes. The production of ismay report in 2010 . Yes. The production of the ismay report in 2010 . 193 the production of the deloitte report . Yes. Production of the deloitte report . Yes all production of the deloitte report . Yes all of production of the deloitte report . Yes. All of the prosecutions of Sub Postmasters<\/a> based on evidence produced Sub Postmasters<\/a> based on evidence produced by horizon happened when you were~~ produced by horizon happened when ou were. Produced by horizon happened when you were you were. Yes, they happened durin you were. Yes, they happened during my you were. Yes, they happened during my time. You were. Yes, they happened during my time. You you were. Yes, they happened during my time. You were you were. Yes, they happened i during my time. You were involved you were. Yes, they happened during my time. You were involved in the second initial during my time. You were involved in the second initial investigation during my time. You were involved in the second initial investigation and i the second initial investigation and with the the second initial investigation and with the Mediation Scheme<\/a> . Yes. And ou were with the Mediation Scheme<\/a> . 193 and you were involved in the Group Litigation<\/a> you were involved in the group litiuation","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia800301.us.archive.org\/22\/items\/BBCNEWS_20240425_083000_BBC_News\/BBCNEWS_20240425_083000_BBC_News.thumbs\/BBCNEWS_20240425_083000_BBC_News_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240703T12:35:10+00:00"}