Police failed to arrest Valdo Calocane. This is a failure of two Police Forces. A failure of the Mental Health trust, along with Nottinghamshire Council as well. Missed multiple opportunities to prevent the nottingham attacks and the murder of our children and ian coates, is what has led us here today. We will continue to pursue agencies that failed us and hold them responsible for the nottingham attacks. This is so no otherfamily is made to suffer like ours. We thank everyone for the outpouring of support for our brave and beautiful daughter, grace. Thank you. That is dr sana daughter, grace. Thank you. That is dr sanjay kumar. Daughter, grace. Thank you. That is dr sanjay kumar. He daughter, grace. Thank you. That is dr sanjay kumar. He was daughter, grace. Thank you. That is dr sanjay kumar. He was standing l dr sanjay kumar. He was standing with dr sinead omalley, parents of Gray Soma League Kumar who was killed in that attack in nottingham last year. He is reacting to the news that that the Court Of Appeal has refused to change that sentence. He said that it was disappointing and not unexpected. He said it was down to a failure of two Police Forces and people missing multiple opportunities to prevent the attacks and the murder of their children and ian coates. He said that he would continue to pursue the agencies who failed us so much. Joining me now is emma webber, the mother of barnaby webber, who was one of the people who was killed in that attack in june last year vai tiktok by Valdo Calocane. Thank you forjoining us on bbc news. I know today must be a difficult day for you. I wonder if i could first get your reaction to the Court Of Appeal decision that the sentence wasnt unduly lenient. Thanks for having me. It is another traumatic day. We have had 11 traumatic day. We have had 11 traumatic months so far. We are not surprised. We are disappointed because it would have been a modicum of some comfort to have an appeal added to Valdo Calocane we are not surprised. We didnt call for this, the Attorney General did. I think it just reflects that, given what dr kumar said is quite right. The gross failures and errors, and the weakness of the prosecution and other agencies as well, has led to this inevitable outcome today. fire this inevitable outcome today. Are ou more this inevitable outcome today. Are you more angry about the investigation, rather than the sentence that the judge imposed . I think so, yes. The judge sentence that the judge imposed . I think so, yes. Thejudge in nottingham, thejudges in the high court, could only deal with what they had in front of them, unfortunately. The real questions are the quality of the evidence and some answers we really need into omissions and failures and contradictions throughout. The court of a eal contradictions throughout. The Court Of Appealjudges contradictions throughout. The Court Of Appealjudges said contradictions throughout. The Court Of Appealjudges said that contradictions throughout. The Court Of Appealjudges said that the contradictions throughout. The Court Of Appealjudges said that the judge | of appealjudges said that the judge in the case had to go by the medical evidence that he was presented with. Yes, absolutely. We have said this was a trial by dr. The utter overreliance on the eminent doctors reports, what they are vital parts of the evidence put forward, when you stop to look into the detail and the dates, and the concerns we raised that were not covered during the prosecution process, it gives as grave concern about the outcome. And it shouldnt just be grave concern about the outcome. And it shouldntjust be down to the doctors. It shouldnt ust be down to the doctors. ,. ,. ,. , doctors. The udges said that Valdo Calocane doctors. The udges said that Valdo Calocane was doctors. The judges said that Valdo Calocane was having doctors. The judges said that Valdo Calocane was having a doctors. The judges said that Valdo Calocane was having a Psychotic Calocane was having a psychotic episode at the time and that was why yourson episode at the time and that was why your son and the others were killed. Do you think there is more to it than that, and the fact that he did plan it . Than that, and the fact that he did [an it . ~ ,. , than that, and the fact that he did plan it . Absolutely. Of course, undoubtedly plan it . Absolutely. Of course, undoubtedly and plan it . Absolutely. Of course, l undoubtedly and unquestionably plan it . Absolutely. Of course, undoubtedly and unquestionably there is more to it. He is mentally very seriously unwell. It was first symptomatic in 2019, diagnosed in 2020. There have been numerous occasions of violent incidents and assaults and disturbing behaviour since then. He has been sectioned four times. There was an outstanding warrant for his arrest for a violent assault on a Police Officer during a Mental Health intervention. He was tasered. To hear in court today that he had no prior convictions and that there was no evidence of any drug use at all, i find it insulting, because actually, when you start to dig and you look deeper, there is a clear escalation and there is clear concern. How long has this individual had the psychotic moment. He planned, he had a rucksack full of weapons. He ordered a sharpening stone for his knives, his array of knives, only a few months before. He had violently assaulted two co workers before. When did the psychotic episode start and end . When we have questioned the fact that he was able to make what seemingly rational decisions to withdraw money to buy sandwiches, to interact with some people but to kill others, we were told by the dr, thatis kill others, we were told by the dr, that is part of being psychotic. When we were told of the frenzied attack of almost 50 knife wounds on the victims, that was part of the psychosis as well. It feels like you cant have it both ways and we want to dig in and we want to know more. We want copies of those reports and we wont stop until we get the answers we deserve. Barney, grace and ian are not coming back. You say ou wont and ian are not coming back. You say you wont stop and ian are not coming back. You say you wont stop. What and ian are not coming back. You say you wont stop. What would and ian are not coming back. You say you wont stop. What would you and ian are not coming back. You say you wont stop. What would you like l you wont stop. What would you like to happen next . fist you wont stop. What would you like to happen next . You wont stop. What would you like to happen next . At the moment we are facin i to happen next . At the moment we are facing i think. To happen next . At the moment we are facing i think, today to happen next . At the moment we are facing i think, today about to happen next . At the moment we are facing i think, today about eight facing i think, today about eight separate reviews and investigations that we are being pulled into as traumatised families. We are concerned that the can delete my cohesion is not going to be there and we are not going to get the overall outcome. There are some very clear errors right the way through, from the Mental Health trusts, leicestershire police, nottinghamshire police. We dont even know about the university of the city council itself yet. The fact that there are so many we are worried. We think we are going to agree with keir starmer that a Public Inquiry is needed because it should not full to us families to be at every single review and make sure every eye is dotted on every tee crossed. D0 every eye is dotted on every tee crossed. ,. , ~ ,. , crossed. Do you think there is a wider implication, crossed. Do you think there is a wider implication, not crossed. Do you think there is a wider implication, notjust crossed. Do you think there is a wider implication, not just for l crossed. Do you think there is a i wider implication, not just for your case, wider implication, notjust for your case, but forthe wider implication, notjust for your case, but for the wider criminal Justice System . Case, but for the wider criminal Justice System . Absolutely. I think the criminal Justice System . Absolutely. I think the criminaljustice Justice System . Absolutely. I think the criminalJustice SystemJustice System . Absolutely. I think the criminalJustice System is the criminalJustice System is seriously flawed. It is seriously under resourced, particularly from the prosecution on the cps side of things. We have been told that as a fact. We have seen evidence of it ourselves. I think you only actually have to look at the news. This is about Public Safety. There was a lot of talk about keeping prisoners safe from Valdo Calocane. Not what has happened in recent weeks. Look at the number of violent offences and the number of violent offences and the increase in knife crime in this country. It is something that has to be addressed urgently because it could happen to anybody anywhere. Unfortunately it happened to us and destroyed our lives. I suppose we have to use the voice that we have had forced upon us to try to make change for others in the future, because it is awful. You change for others in the future, because it is awful. Change for others in the future, because it is awful. You talk about the wider implications. Because it is awful. You talk about the wider implications. What because it is awful. You talk about the wider implications. What you | the wider implications. What you think the wider implication is . To the Political Parties need to get together for what might be described as a root and Branch Reform of it to look at it, about how they go forward . I look at it, about how they go forward . , � ~. ,. , look at it, about how they go forward . ~. ,. , ~ forward . I dont know, really. A Ear Ao Forward . I dont know, really. A year ago i forward . I dont know, really. A year ago i wouldnt forward . I dont know, really. A year ago i wouldnt have forward . I dont know, really. A year ago i wouldnt have had forward . I dont know, really. A year ago i wouldnt have had a l forward . I dont know, really. A. Year ago i wouldnt have had a clue about most of the things im talking about most of the things im talking about now and i dont want to become an armchair expert. It is clear to me, as a human being, as a law abiding citizen, as a grieving parent, a devastated mother, that things have gone so badly wrong and it is not an isolated incident, that it is not an isolated incident, that it is not an isolated incident, that it is going to happen again. I dont know what the actual answer is. All i do know is, our Public Safety has to come first and we have to therefore start to look at what is going wrong and when these incidents are happening and when they are happening. I are happening and when they are ha eninu. Are happening and when they are haueninu. , happening. I am interested, the udaes happening. I am interested, the ud. Es in happening. I am interested, the judges in their happening. I am interested, the judges in their statement happening. I am interested, the judges in their statement said i happening. I am interested, the i judges in their statement said the offences had caused unimaginable grief, which is what you have suffered. I wondered whether you were getting support from members of the public and have other people come forward to you to say this has happened to us, we think there needs to be changed . Mt; happened to us, we think there needs to be changed . To be changed . My goodness, yes. In our world of to be changed . My goodness, yes. In our world of darkness, to be changed . My goodness, yes. In our world of darkness, the to be changed . My goodness, yes. In our world of darkness, the glimmersl our world of darkness, the glimmers of hope that we get have actually come from the goodness and support and compassion that is still out in society with the public. The media have been incredibly supportive as well. We still get letters on a weekly basis, probably 1000 at last count. Countless messages of support. Unfortunately, we are talking to two other families who have been involved in very high profile tragedies, one of which is involving a very similar diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. They are reaching out to us because we are getting support as victims that we are due, and that we are entitled to. Whilst i think it is widely quoted victims are at the centre and heart of everything the judicial Justice System does, we are not. We are in appendix at best. I would probably argue i am an annoyance to them now. Iam not going probably argue i am an annoyance to them now. I am not going to go quietly into that good night because i am in this awful position. I dont want to be in this awful position. I would much rather not have this voice. But have it, i have got, the same as the other families, and use it we must. Same as the other families, and use it we must it we must. Finally are you optimistic it we must. Finally are you optimistic that it we must. Finally are you optimistic that you it we must. Finally are you optimistic that you are it we must. Finally are you l optimistic that you are going it we must. Finally are you optimistic that you are going to see justice for barnaby, grace and ian . I believe that we will evoke Change Thatis i believe that we will evoke change that is much needed, and i believe we will get proper accountability from the agencies and the individuals that have failed them. I hope we can do something, in whatever time we have got left on this mortal coil, to maybe make some change in a system that desperately needs it. ~ ,. , ~ change in a system that desperately needs it. ~ ,. , ~ needs it. Emma webber, thank you so much for your needs it. Emma webber, thank you so much for your time needs it. Emma webber, thank you so much for your time on needs it. Emma webber, thank you so much for your time on what needs it. Emma webber, thank you so much for your time on what we needs it. Emma webber, thank you so much for your time on what we know l much for your time on what we know is a difficult day for you today. We appreciate your time on bbc news. Thank you very much. You appreciate your time on bbc news. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You are welcome thank you very much. You are welcome. Thank thank you very much. You are welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much. You are welcome. Thank you. Lets thank you very much. You are | welcome. Thank you. Lets get thank you very much. You are welcome. Thank you. Lets get more from our home welcome. Thank you. Lets get more from our home and welcome. Thank you. Lets get more from our home and legal welcome. Thank you. Lets get more from our home and Legal Affairs from our home and Legal Affairs correspondent who was in court. Can you just outline. We have been to date like talking thereto emma webber. Just outline what the court judges said today. In webber. Just outline what the court judges said today. Judges said today. In short, they said there was judges said today. In short, they said there was no judges said today. In short, they said there was no legal judges said today. In short, they said there was no legal reason i judges said today. In short, they i said there was no legal reason why they should interfere with the sentence that the trialjudge in nottingham handed down to Valdo Calocane in january. Nottingham handed down to Valdo Calocane injanuary. It is very difficult for a sentence in a criminal court to be overturned by the Court Of Appeal. It is not simply a case of the Court Of Appeal having a look at the evidence for itself and coming to a different conclusion. The court has to be satisfied that the judge fell into, in the jargon, gross error, that somehow thejudge missed in the jargon, gross error, that somehow the judge missed something that was critical to the case. During the ruling this morning, which was effectively a summary of what is going to be quite a long judgment, lady chiefjustice made very clear that when the trialjudge in nottingham looked at the evidence of what happened on that appalling day lastjune, it was apparent to thejudge that, from day lastjune, it was apparent to the judge that, from the evidence that was presented to him in court, and he can only go on the evidence before him in court, that there was no dispute that Valdo Calocane had acted in the midst of an acute episode of psychosis, brought on by paranoid schizophrenia, that he was effectively out of control of his own actions, and therefore, in the circumstances the court had no option but to accept the plea of manslaughter by diminished responsibility. That fed into the question of to how he should be sentence. Taking that Starting Point that Valdo Calocane has been shown in court to be very, exceptionally mentally ill. I remember reading at the time from the judges remarked that he was on the medicine of last resort for his particular form of schizophrenia. The options for the judge then become limited because thejudge has to judge then become limited because