Bills by an average 33 over the next five years, to Fund Improvements in the services. Companies are under pressure, as Sewage Spills and water leaks mount up, which critics blame on under investment in the countrys infrastructure. Joining me now is swetha ramachandran, fund manager at artemis investment management. Good to have you with us. Give me a sense about what this tells us about the industry, prioritised in the 805, put into private hands, they said at the time that would be a great idea, because it would allow investment in what was already a creaking industry. There doesnt seem to work like that, does it . I there doesnt seem to work like that, does it . That, does it . Ithink the issue many that, does it . Ithink the issue many of that, does it . Ithink the issue many of these that, does it . | think the| issue many of these walk i55ue many of these Walk Companie5 I55ue many of these Walk Companies have faced water companie5 if it is debt. A lot of it has been floating rate debt affected by inflation, which means their revenue is about 25 to 25 of revenues on aggregate today are going to service their debt payments, 5ervice their debt payments, rather than being able to be reinvested in the business itself. � ,. , itself. But there will be an argument itself. But there will be an argument customers itself. But there will be an argument customers will i itself. But there will be an i argument customers will say itself. But there will be an argument customers will say how is it you can load up a business with debt, pay all of your shareholders dividends and then at the end of the day say hang on, we run out of money . Surely you have to invest money to make money . The inve5tor5 to make money . The investors should be carrying the can here, not the bill payers, really . Here, not the bill payers, reall . , ~. , really . Yes, i think some of this is also really . Yes, i think some of this is also a really . Yes, i think some of this is also a function really . Yes, i think some of this is also a function of really . Yes, i think some of this is also a function of the| this is also a function of the Regulatory Regime, which in the uk has prioritised, perhaps not taken enough interest in the Rate Of Return The5e taken enough interest in the rate of return these companies are earning on their investment. So i think a focus on that may have led to a natural captain what these companies were withdrawing in the face of dividends, which of course is not the case when we are seeing shareholders have been prioritised, and to some extent this is quite a short term prioritisation because the businesses them5elve5 because the businesses themselves are not sustainable over the long term. Over the long term. Yes, and it really does over the long term. Yes, and it really does raise over the long term. Yes, and it really does raise that over the long term. Yes, and it really does raise that issue over the long term. Yes, and it really does raise that issue of. Really does raise that issue of where is the balance between looking after shareholders that are funding the business in the first place and also maintaining profit5, because without the business shareholders dont get a return. It really is about trying to strike the right balance, isnt it . Exactly, and in any other balance, isnt it . Exactly, and in any other private balance, isnt it . Exactly, and in any other private company, i in any other private company, the difference is that companies are allowed to fail, 5ee dont have this asymmetry that you do in a regulated natural product, which is where the rewards have been prioritised but the risk is very likely to be 5ociali5ed. Ye5, very likely to be 5ociali5ed. Yes, and with that in mind, how do you convince, persuade private businesses than to invest for the long term . I think an effective Regulatory Regime for a business, for these businesses in particular, is quite e55ential, these businesses in particular, is quite essential, and that needs to be revisited, in the context of the rate of returns the5e context of the rate of returns these companies have historically been making. Really good to talk to you, thank you for explaining all of that. We will talk to more a little later. We talk a lot about new, green tech, but much of that revolution relies on traditional materials, including metals like copper, nickel and aluminium, and thats prompting a surge in prices. Last month, the london metal exchange, the worlds biggest market place for industrial metals, saw a record volume of trading. Copper, which has been called the most important industrial metal, vitalfor wiring our future tech, has hit record high prices, along with highs in gold, and moves in things like nickel, used in electric vehicles batteries, and silver, which is used in solar panels. So whats going on . For more, joining me now is Callum Macpher5on head of commodities at inve5tec. Why this big spike . When we tend to see why this big spike . When we tend to see these why this big spike . When we tend to see these kind why this big spike . When we tend to see these kind of why this big spike . When we i tend to see these kind of moves get under way, it does tend to attract a lot of Speculative Player5 attract a lot of speculative players into the market, and really when things start to move quickly, then people buy because its going up, and then that encourages more buyers, and so the spike becomes a sort of process of momentum, and to a certain extent, and then as you say we have this green narrative behind this as well, which tends to feed on that momentum and that narrative just become stronger and stronger. But there are some specific factors at play in various of these commodities, so in copperfor example, we have a medium to long term factor about electrification, which, as you say, is a really important driver there, and the reality is with copper that electrification is really about, as well as the green agenda, you have the efficiency, which is electric motors are incredibly efficient, you have heat pumps that are a very efficient means of heating things, and so these are really strong drivers. 0n are really strong drivers. On top of that, you also have the security of supply. So it is notjust simply security of supply. So it is not just simply about the green agenda, there are very powerful Drivers Behind these things. But these are medium to long term things. The term supercycle is often used, but these are things that evolve over a number of things a number of years. It is very hard to see how much of the moment we are seeing at the moment we are seeing at the moment you can really a tribute to that sort of fundamental driver, versus how much is connected with this sort of speculative spike. find connected with this sort of speculative spike. Connected with this sort of speculative spike. And i wonder too, ou speculative spike. And i wonder too. You have speculative spike. And i wonder too, you have talked speculative spike. And i wonder too, you have talked about too, you have talked about green tech, evs, batteries and cabling, talk to me about chinas role in all of this, we have seen it go through well documented woes. How much does that feed into demand . {hind documented woes. How much does that feed into demand . That feed into demand . China is an interesting that feed into demand . China is an interesting case that feed into demand . China is an interesting case and that feed into demand . China is an interesting case and its an interesting case and its interesting you mention that because actually supply of copper in china is ready to at the moment. Inventories are quite high, so this is one of the reasons that some people are expecting Copper Prices to go down from where they are, rather than up, so the particular tightness in the market we are seeing, particularly in the us actually, not so much in china, even though that is the place where you might expect to see the merits demand. But of course there is an International Aspect of this, it is notjust about chinese demand. And Property Market is just one aspect of the problem. Certainly where construction is concerned, it has more of an impact on iron ore rather than on copper. Impact on iron ore rather than on tower impact on iron ore rather than on copper. Really good to talk to ou. On copper. Really good to talk to you. Grateful on copper. Really good to talk to you. Grateful for on copper. Really good to talk to you. Grateful for your on copper. Really good to talk to you. Grateful for your time | to you. Grateful for your time today, thank you. Speaking of renewable, new, green technology. The Orkney Islands, to the north of scotland, have established themselves as a hub for clean energy. Theres plentiful wind power, and an array of Prototype Wave and tidal power projects. Now, there are plans to focus that Pioneering Spirit in another area clean and cheap sea transport. Theo leggett reports. For the people of the 0rkney for the people of the Orkney Islands, ferries like this one offer a vital lifeline. The islands lie some ten miles off the north coast of scotland. They are connected to one another and to the mainland by another and to the mainland by a network of ferry routes. Absolutely vital now. Ships like this, this is the only means of transport to certain islands in 0rkney, so if the boat isnt going, there is no way of getting goods and services tax off the island, so they have to be very robust and reliable to maintain the service in a range of Weather Conditions we do experience in this area. �. ,. , conditions we do experience in this area this area. But many of the ferries serving this area. But many of the ferries serving the this area. But many of the ferries serving the islands | this area. But many of the. Ferries serving the islands are ageing and costly to run. They also burn diesel, producing a significant amount of carbon emissions. Now people who are looking to the future and thinking of ways to make the network cleaner and more efficient. Network cleaner and more efficient efficient. Yes, it is a 25 kilowatts efficient. Yes, it is a 25 kilowatts turbine. Efficient. Yes, it is a 25 kilowatts turbine. This | efficient. Yes, it is a 25. Kilowatts turbine. This is efficient. Yes, it is a 25 kilowatts turbine. This is one of them kilowatts turbine. This is one of them. Andrew kilowatts turbine. This is one of them. Andrew banks kilowatts turbine. This is one of them. Andrew banks runs | kilowatts turbine. This is one | of them. Andrew banks runs a Ferry Service to and from the islands. This wind turbine provides his vessels with all the power they need when they are moored up between services. He has also invested in modern catamaran ferries, but he thinks of the future more radical technologies will be needed. , ~ radical technologies will be needed. , ~. , needed. For me, i think the way forward is needed. For me, i think the way forward is with needed. For me, i think the way forward is with hydrogen, forward is with hydrogen, because in 0rkney we produce so much electricity, and hydrogen uses a lot of electricity to make it, so we are actually well produced to well placed to produce hydrogen, i would say. To produce hydrogen, i would sa. � , to produce hydrogen, i would sa. fl. , to produce hydrogen, i would sa. � ,. ,. , y to produce hydrogen, i would sa. � ,. ,. , ,, say. Its not the only possible solution say. Its not the only possible solution. A say. Its not the only possible solution. A trial say. Its not the only possible solution. A trial of say. Its not the only possible solution. A trial of two say. Its not the only possible solution. A trial of two fully l solution. A trial of two fully electric hydrofoils is due to start on interisland services next year, backed by half £1 million of government money. Ferries like these are vital economic and social links for the island is here in 0rkney, but the lessons learnt here about making them cleaner, more efficient and cheaper to run will notjust be relevant for the 0rkney will notjust be relevant for the Orkney Islands but also for other remote communities across the globe. Theo leggett, bbc news, 0rkney. From shipping to aviation. To saudi arabia, where Aviation Leaders from Around The World are gathering for the future aviation forum. Its an event where big deals get signed, with the hosts offering up 100 billion in investment opportunities. The Aviation Industry has been in the news a lot, lately, over safety issues at the planemaking giant, boeing, which will be of particular importantance to the saudis, whose National Airlines have some 120 aircraft on order. Joining me now is murdo morrison, head of strategic content at the aviation news site, flight global. Good to have you with us. Talk to the festival about this eventin to the festival about this event in saudi. It is a big event in saudi. It is a big event for saudi because they are very deep pockets at the moment and expanding their domestic industry. Domestic industry. Yes, very much so domestic industry. Yes, very much so. This domestic industry. Yes, very much so. This is domestic industry. Yes, very much so. This is all domestic industry. Yes, very much so. This is all really i much so. This is all really part of a long effort by saudi arabia to diversify the economy, and aviation and travel are a huge part of that. We have seen what saudi arabia have done with sport, newcastle united, with the domestic league, but boxing and golf. They really want to become a modern, sophisticated country, and as part of that they want to develop a tourist industry, they want to bring tourists into the country. And there was a time not that long ago when saudi arabia was largely a closed country, and really there were only sort of Travel Sector was the pilgrimage market, muslims during the hajj. A little bit of Ultrahigh Network net worth out the travel but it wasnt really an Aviation Country and havent really taken Aviation Country and havent really ta ken off Aviation Country and havent really taken off in the way that the gulf countries, uae and qatar, had done. But this 0 enin and qatar, had done. But this opening up and qatar, had done. But this opening up of and qatar, had done. But this opening up of saudi and qatar, had done. But this opening up of saudi arabia i opening up of saudi arabia comes at the same time when the Industry Arejust comes at the same time when the industry are just getting back on its feet. There is still a shortage of planes, still a shortage of planes, still a shortage of planes, still a shortage of crew, still a shortage of crew, still a shortage of crew, still a shortage of pilots. It is all sort of happening together and that puts pressure on the supply chain, and also prices, doesnt it . Doesnt it . Yes, it does. The aviation doesnt it . Yes, it does. The Aviation Industry, doesnt it . Yes, it does. The Aviation Industry, the Aviation Industry, the aerospace industry, the people who make the aircraft, have really struggled since covid, not because of lack of demand anything but. Almost because there is too much demand and there is too much demand and the supply chain has struggled to keep up. You spoke earlier about boeings troubles, which are related to a whole lot of other things as well. So yes, the industry has been struggling to meet demand, but i think what is happening in saudi arabia and the wider region there isjust saudi arabia and the wider region there is just part of that whole increase in the number of people that want to travel, which is good news for the Aviation Industry. Their challenge is really getting their supply up to speed to meet that demand. Yes, we will keep an eye on those headlines coming out of that event in saudl coming out of that event in saudi. ,. ,. , coming out of that event in saudi. H,. ,. , coming out of that event in saudi. ,. ,. ,. ,. , coming out of that event in saudi. ,. , saudi. Good to have you with us. Saudi. Good to have you with us thank saudi. Good to have you with us. Thank you. Around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. You are with Business Today on bbc news. To india now, where its an important day, as the worlds biggest election crosses the halfway mark. Today, the fifth phase of polling kicks off, with people in the financial capital, mumbai, casting their vote. Home to some of indias richest, mumbai is the key economic hub, driving the nations Economic Policy. So what is at stake . Archana shukla is at a Polling Station in mumbai for us. A really big day there. A huge diplomatic effort, and a huge democratic effort to get people to the polls, and it is an important one from a business point of view, particularly in mumbai . Point of view, particularly in mumbai . ~ , �. ,. , mumbai . Absolutely. Im at a ollin mumbai . Absolutely. Im at a Polling Station mumbai . Absolutely. Im at a Polling Station here mumbai . Absolutely. Im at a Polling Station here in mumbai . Absolutely. Im at a Polling Station here in the Polling Station here in the central part of mumbai, and we are people are queueing up to elect one of the ii lawmakers this region were sent to the parliament. This region a key economic hub and centre of Economic Policy making and why not. The region contributes over 6 of the countrys gdp and a quarter of its industrial production, home to some of the richest, this is the city w