Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20240910

The day. Most of those up towards the North And West and the changes will start tonight and through the day tomorrow. Cold fronts weeping southwards and eastwards, just opening the release will proceed tomorrow, despite party unease. Number 10 says it has no choice but will these judgements define the prime Minister And Chancellor for years to come . Welcome to newsnight, the home of insight, interviews, and tonight, insistence, from the chancellor, Rachel Reeves, that there will be no compromise on her decision to axe the universal Winter Fuel payments for pensioners. She points towards figures due out in a few hours time that would mean a further above Inflation Increase in the State Pension. Our Panel Tonight kezia dugdale, leader of the scottish Labour Party between 2015 and 2017. Sir conor burns, who was a trade and northern Ireland Minister under Boris Johnson and liz truss. Nick was outside the meeting of Labour Mps who heard from the chancellor a few hours ago. And barry gardiner� s here with us to talk about the Winter Fuel payment vote. Hes Labour Mp for brent west. And hows he going to vote. Nick, mps being encouraged to hold the line. Are they . I had to say it looked like a bit of a political operation in that meeting with some very nervous looking Downing Street aides and then the chancellor marched into the Committee Room smiling and looking confident and holding a can of coke and delivered this strong message, we stand, we lead and we govern together. But i understand there was a very heavy message delivered by Sir Alan Campbell who is the Chief Whip and he essentially said that new Labour Mps need to vote with the government, you know the consequences if you dont and both against them, that you lose the web but then some Labour Mps heard hiM Speak it pretty strong terms about how they would very much frown on abstentions because there were reports that as many as 50 Labour Mps mightabstain. Reports that as many as 50 Labour Mps might abstain. The way they heard it, they rather got the impression that if you abstained, you could be in danger of losing the whip, normally it is meeting with a coffee and a slap on the wrist. And the mood, the word from the government Whips Office is they believe that tomorrow they are going to avoid a damaging rebellion but i have to say, there are a lot of very unhappy Labour Mps, including ministers, and i think what you will find tomorrow is a lot of Labour Mps will vote for this but vote with heavy heart. I5 will vote for this but vote with heavy heart will vote for this but vote with hea heart. ,. ,. ,. Heavy heart. Is that when you heard, bar . Heavy heart. Is that when you heard, barry . You heavy heart. Is that when you heard, barry . You post a heavy heart. Is that when you heard, barry . You post a question heavy heart. Is that when you heard, barry . You post a question at heavy heart. Is that when you heard, barry . You post a question at the I Barry . You post a question at the beginning. Barry . You post a question at the beginning, it would barry . You post a question at the beginning, it would define barry . You post a question at the beginning, it would define the beginning, it would define the chancellor and the Prime Minister in the long chancellor and the Prime Minister in the long term. I think the answer to that is the long term. I think the answer to that is yes, the long term. I think the answer to that is yes, it the long term. I think the answer to that is yes, it will. It will define them that is yes, it will. It will define them as that is yes, it will. It will define them as a that is yes, it will. It will define them as a leadership that is determined to tackle the underlying problems determined to tackle the underlying problems in our economy that we have inherited problems in our economy that we have inherited. And they will take the tough inherited. And they will take the tough decisions to do that. Nobody, nobody tough decisions to do that. Nobody, nobody in tough decisions to do that. Nobody, nobody in the Labour Party, and i wont nobody in the Labour Party, and i wont go nobody in the Labour Party, and i wont go over what was said in that Room Wont go over what was said in that room tonight, but nobody in the labour room tonight, but nobody in the Labour Party would like to see the sort of Labour Party would like to see the sort of problems that will be caused for elderly sort of problems that will be caused for elderly people who are just above for elderly people who are just above that threshold of £12,460. But what was above that threshold of £12,460. But what was absolutely clear is that every what was absolutely clear is that every one what was absolutely clear is that every one of them realised that when you inherit a every one of them realised that when you inherit a £21. 9 billion Black Hole. You inherit a £21. 9 billion Black Hole. Hot you inherit a £21. 9 billion Black Hole, not in the future but in the current hole, not in the future but in the current year, you have to take tough choices current year, you have to take tough choices ami current year, you have to take tough choices. And what they hope, and i think choices. And what they hope, and i think what choices. And what they hope, and i think what was expressed, is that they know think what was expressed, is that they know the chancellor wants to make they know the chancellor wants to make this they know the chancellor wants to make this as easy as possible, and that is make this as easy as possible, and that is why make this as easy as possible, and that is why there is so much effort being that is why there is so much effort being put that is why there is so much effort being put into now, 500 Million going being put into now, 500 Million going into being put into now, 500 Million going into the payments to local authorities, to help people and that is the authorities, to help people and that is the reason they are actually expanding the applications for pension expanding the applications for pension credit. And that can make the difference that i urge everybody, the last government, 880,000 everybody, the last government, 880,000 people they left without pension 880,000 people they left without pension credit. They could have done that and pension credit. They could have done that and they didnt. That and they didnt. Which way i do auoin to that and they didnt. Which way i do going to vote . That and they didnt. Which way i do going to vote . I that and they didnt. Which way i do going to vote . I will that and they didnt. Which way i do going to vote . I will be voting that and they didnt. Which way i do going to vote . I will be voting with l going to vote . I will be voting with the government. Going to vote . I will be voting with the government. Tono going to vote . I will be voting with | the government. Tono abstention . Absolutely not. But the government. Tono abstention . Absolutely not. The government. Tono abstention . Absolutely not. But youre concerned about the impact . Absolutely not. But youre concerned about the impact . You absolutely not. But youre concerned about the impact . You have absolutely not. But youre concerned about the impact . You have to about the impact . You have to understand about the impact . You have to understand that about the impact . You have to understand that tomorrows i about the impact . You have to l understand that Tomorrows Vote about the impact . You have to understand that Tomorrows Vote is not can understand that Tomorrows Vote is not can be understand that Tomorrows Vote is not can be put a tape in Place And Ametiorate not can be put a tape in place and ameliorate this in some way. The vote, ameliorate this in some way. The vote, The Ameliorate this in some way. The vote, the amendment of the conservatives put forward is simply to leave conservatives put forward is simply to leave things as they are. If they are going to leave things as they are. If they are going to say that, Rishi Sunak owes are going to say that, Rishi Sunak owes us are going to say that, Rishi Sunak owes us an are going to say that, Rishi Sunak owes us an explanation could wear what owes us an explanation could wear what they owes us an explanation could wear what they get the £1. 5 billion that actually what they get the £1. 5 billion that actually this will create . He what they get the £1. 5 billion that actually this will create . What they get the £1. 5 billion that actually this will create . He is now the leader of actually this will create . He is now the leader of the opposition. Actually this will create . He is now the leader of the opposition. It i the leader of the opposition. It is his amendment you talked about amelioration, we push for some amelioration, we push for some amelioration because it does not look like amelioration because it does not look like from the words of the chancellor that is on offer at all. I chancellor that is on offer at all. I dont chancellor that is on offer at all. I dont get chancellor that is on offer at all. I dont get right. I think the chancellor has been very clear and actually, chancellor has been very clear and actually, ministers have been very clear actually, ministers have been very clear in actually, ministers have been very clear in the actually, ministers have been very clear in the Department Work Work and pensions that actually there is and pensions that actually there is a huge and pensions that actually there is a huge expansion going on to increase a huge expansion going on to increase the application pension credit~ increase the application pension credit. , increase the application pension credit. , � , credit. That wont help the people ust above credit. That wont help the people just above that credit. That wont help the people just above that level. Credit. That wont help the people just above that level. So credit. That wont help the people just above that level. So youre i just above that level. So youre saying youre fine with the policy as it is . , saying youre fine with the Policy Asitis . ,. , as it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this. As it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this itut as it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this. But what as it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this. But what you have as it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this. But what you have to as it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this. But what you have to say as it is . Nobody comes in wanting to do this. But what you have to say is. Do this. But what you have to say is how are do this. But what you have to say is how are you do this. But what you have to say is how are you going to find the 21. 9 billion . How are you going to find the 21. 9 billion . This is 1. 5 towards it. There are billion . This is 1. 5 towards it. There are other tough choices coming down there are other tough choices coming down the there are other tough choices coming down the line you could argue that it is 15 down the line you could argue that it is 15 the down the line you could argue that it is 1. 5 the other way, are you going it is 1. 5 the other way, are you going to it is 1. 5 the other way, are you going to put that on the back of pensioners . There was another 20 Billion to find, there was another 20 Billion to find, thats the point. There was another 20 Billion to find, thats the point. As we know, half of that find, thats the point. As we know, half of that was find, thats the point. As we know, half of that was because find, thats the point. As we know, half of that was because you find, thats the point. As we know, half of that was because you chose J Half of that was because you chose to increase public Sector Pay. Trio. To increase public Sector Pay. No, no. To increase public Sector Pay. No, no that to increase public Sector Pay. No, no. That was to increase public Sector Pay. No, no. That was a to increase public Sector Pay. No, no. That was a choice. To increase public Sector Pay. No, no. That was a choice. Aprilia i no. That was a choice. Aprilia by 496 no. That was a choice. Aprilia by 496 rather no. That was a choice. Aprilia by 4 rather than no. That was a choice. Aprilia by 4 rather than 4. 596. No. That was a choice. Aprilia by 4 rather than 4. 5 . Im no. That was a choice. Aprilia by 496 rather than 4. 596. IM Sorry,. 496 rather than 4. 596. IM Sorry, there is no 496 rather than 4. 596. IM Sorry, there is no government 496 rather than 4. 596. IM Sorry, there is no government can 496 rather than 4. 596. IM Sorry, there is no government can no. There is no government can no government that would refuse to go along government that would refuse to go along with government that would refuse to go along with what the public Sector Pay review body set. Conservative, labour, Pay Review Body set. Conservative, labour, coalition, we have altered if that labour, coalition, we have altered if that is labour, coalition, we have altered if that is what the body says, that is what if that is what the body says, that is what you if that is what the body says, that is what you do. And if you want to et is what you do. And if you want to get the is what you do. And if you want to get the economy back working again, what you get the economy back working again, what you need is to get people back into work what you need is to get people back into work. ~. , what you need is to get people back into work. ~. ,. ,. , into work. What got to do. They wasted into work. What got to do. They wasted. They into work. What got to do. They wasted. They wasted into work. What got to do. They wasted. They wasted billions i into work. What got to do. They wasted. They wasted billions of| wasted. They wasted billions of pounds wasted. They wasted billions of pounds on wasted. They wasted billions of pounds on strike you seem to be arguing pounds on strike you seem to be arguing that this is some sort of display arguing that this is some sort of display for arguing that this is some sort of display for the markets. You punish the pensioners display for the markets. You punish the pensioners and display for the markets. You punish the pensioners and get display for the markets. You punish the pensioners and get credibility. I the pensioners and get credibility. Then you spend it in a few years but that seems to be the implication are what the chancellor said. We get to invest and get prosperity later if we take this specific tough decision now . We we take this specific tough decision now . ~. ,. , we take this specific tough decision now . ,. , now . We have a £21. 9 billion Black Hole in this now . We have a £21. 9 billion Black Hole in this years budget. Now . We have a £21. 9 billion Black Hole in this years budget. That now . We have a £21. 9 billion Black Hole in this years budget. That is L Hole in this years budget. That is Money Hole in this years budget. That is money that hole in this years budget. That is money that the conservative administration did not put into the Budget Administration did not put into the budget i administration did not put into the budaet. , administration did not put into the budaet. ,. ,. , budget. I have to bring in conor. This year. Budget. I have to bring in conor. This year, this budget. I have to bring in conor. This year, this was budget. I have to bring in conor. This year, this was the key, budget. I have to bring in conor. This year, this was the key, they need to find savings in this financial year and there are very few available and this was one that was available and its about the legacy. Was available and its about the lea. , was available and its about the lea. ,. , was available and its about the leaa. ,. , was available and its about the lea. ,. ,. Legacy. You have ust had a masterclass legacy. You have ust had a masterclass in legacy. You have just had a masterclass in why legacy. You have just had a masterclass in why barry i legacy. You have just had a masterclass in why barry is| legacy. You have just had a I Masterclass in why barry is so useful masterclass in why barry is so useful to masterclass in why barry is so useful to successive masterclass in why barry is so useful to successive labour I Masterclass in why barry is so useful to successive labour leaders, where useful to successive labour leaders, where he useful to successive labour leaders, where he served useful to successive labour leaders, where he served with useful to successive labour leaders, where he served with distinction i where he served with distinction on the jeremy where he served with distinction on the Jeremy Corbvn where he served with distinction on the Jeremy Corbyn Front where he served with distinction on the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. I where he served with distinction on the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He i the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He can defend the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He can defend a the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He can defend a brief the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He can defend a brief even the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He can defend a brief even if the Jeremy Corbyn Front bench. He can defend a brief even if he can defend a brief even if he doesnt can defend a brief even if he doesnt believe can defend a brief even if he doesnt believe it, can defend a brief even if he doesnt believe it, with i can defend a brief even if he doesnt believe it, with eloquence. This is nonsense. Doesnt believe it, with eloquence. This is nonsense. What doesnt believe it, with eloquence. This is nonsense. What we doesnt believe it, with eloquence. This is nonsense. What we have i doesnt believe it, with eloquence. I this is nonsense. What we have just heard this is nonsense. What we have just heard is this is nonsense. What we have just heard is that this is nonsense. What we have just heard is that everything this is nonsense. What we have just heard is that everything is this is nonsense. What we have just heard is that everything is so this is nonsense. What we have just heard is that everything is so dire, l heard is that everything is so dire, which heard is that everything is so dire, which wasnt heard is that everything is so dire, which Wasnt Set heard is that everything is so dire, which Wasnt Set in heard is that everything is so dire, which Wasnt Set in the heard is that everything is so dire, which Wasnt Set in the election i which Wasnt Set in the election campaign, which Wasnt Set in the election campaign, that which Wasnt Set in the election campaign, that pensioners i which Wasnt Set in the election campaign, that Pensioners Arei which Wasnt Set in the election i campaign, that pensioners are going to pay campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what he campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what he says campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what he says is campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what he says is a campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what he says is a very campaign, that pensioners are going to pay what he says is a very modest amount to pay what he says is a very modest amount of to pay what he says is a very modest amount of what to pay what he says is a very modest amount of what he to pay what he says is a very modest amount of what he claims to pay what he says is a very modest amount of what he claims to to pay what he says is a very modest amount of what he claims to be i to pay what he says is a very modest amount of what he claims to be an. To pay what he says is a very modest| amount of what he claims to be an in Year Deficit Amount of what he claims to be an in year deficit~ the amount of what he claims to be an in year deficit. The monies that amount of what he claims to be an in year deficit. The monies that are i year deficit. The monies that are being year deficit. The monies that are being given year deficit. The monies that are being given to year deficit. The monies that are being given to the year deficit. The monies that are being given to the public being given to the public Sector Union. Being given to the public Sector Union. Train being given to the public Sector Union, Train Drivers being given to the public Sector Union, Train Drivers and being given to the public Sector Union, Train Drivers and so i being given to the public Sector Union, Train Drivers and so on, i being given to the Public Sector i union, Train Drivers and so on, what we just union, Train Drivers and so on, what we just heard union, Train Drivers and so on, what we just heard is union, Train Drivers and so on, what we just heard is actually union, Train Drivers and so on, what we just heard is actually extremelyl we just heard is actually extremely dangerous, we just heard is actually extremely dangerous, that we just heard is actually extremely dangerous, that strikes we just heard is actually extremely dangerous, that strikes impact i dangerous, that strikes impact productivity dangerous, that strikes impact productivity in dangerous, that strikes impact productivity in the dangerous, that strikes impact productivity in the economy. Dangerous, that strikes impact i productivity in the economy and the best Way Productivity in the economy and the best way to productivity in the economy and the best way to support productivity in the economy and the best way to support Productivity Productivity in the economy and the| best way to support productivity and the economy best way to support productivity and the economy is best way to support productivity and the economy is to best way to support productivity and the economy is to cave to best way to support productivity and the economy is to cave to every pay| the economy is to cave to every pay reguest the economy is to cave to every Pay Request because the economy is to cave to every Pay Request because its more the economy is to cave to every pay| request because its more expensive to restrain request because its more expensive to restrain Pav Request because its more expensive to restrain pay than request because its more expensive to restrain pay than cave. Request because its more expensive to restrain pay than cave. That request because its more expensive to restrain pay than cave. That is request because its more expensive to restrain pay than cave. That is a l to restrain pay than cave. That is a recipe to restrain pay than cave. That is a recipe for to restrain pay than cave. That is a recipe for disaster. To restrain pay than cave. That is a recipe for disaster. I to restrain pay than cave. That is a recipe for disaster. I fear recipe for disaster. I fear this will define recipe for disaster. I fear this will define the recipe for disaster. I fear this will define the Labour Recipe for disaster. I fear this will define the Labour Party. Recipe for disaster. I fear this. Will define the Labour Party and Keir Starmers will define the Labour Party and Keir Starmers government, i will define the Labour Party Andj Keir starmers government, the Government Keir starmers government, the government he Keir Starmers government, the government he leads. Keir starmers government, the government he leads. I Keir Starmers government, the government he leads. I would l Keir Starmers government, the| government he leads. I would be Keir Starmers government, the government he leads. I would be very worried if government he leads. I would be very worried if i government he leads. I would be very worried if i was government he leads. I would be very worried if i was a government he leads. I would be very worried if i was a labour worried if i was a Labour Backbencher worried if i was a Labour Backbencher who worried if i was a Labour Backbencher who didnti worried if i was a Labour Backbencher who didnt level with the public backbencher who didnt level with the public that backbencher who didnt level with the public that this backbencher who didnt level with the public that this was backbencher who didnt level with the public that this was the the public that this was the intention the public that this was the intention. And the public that this was the intention. And now, the public that this was the intention. And now, two i the public that this was the i intention. And now, two months the public that this was the intention. And now, two months on, is beginning intention. And now, two months on, is beginning with intention. And now, two months on, is beginning with this. Intention. And now, two months on, is beginning with this. This will is beginning with this. This Will Worrv is beginning with this. This Will Worrv a is beginning with this. This Will Worrv a lot is beginning with this. This Will Worrv a lot of is beginning with this. This will worry a lot of pensioners, i worry a lot of pensioners, understandably worry a lot of pensioners, understandably and worry a lot of pensioners, understandably and by. Worry a lot of pensioners, | understandably and by the worry a lot of pensioners, understandably and by the way, i think understandably and by the way, i think they understandably and by the way, i think they could understandably and by the way, i think they could be understandably and by the way, i think they could be a understandably and by the way, i think they could be a very strong | think they could be a very strong case think they could be a very strong case for think they could be a very strong case for having think they could be a very strong case for having a think they could be a very strong case for having a proper think they could be a very strong case for having a proper debate. Case for having a proper debate about case for having a proper debate about the case for having a proper debate about the Universality Case for having a proper debate about the universality of case for having a proper debate about the universality of things | about the universality of things like winter about the universality of things like Winter Fuel about the universality of things like Winter Fuel payments i about the universality of things like Winter Fuel payments and | like Winter Fuel payments and whether like Winter Fuel payments and whether it like Winter Fuel payments and whether it is like Winter Fuel payments and whether it is the like Winter Fuel payments and whether it is the right like Winter Fuel payments and whether it is the right way like Winter Fuel payments and whether it is the right way to i whether it is the right way to target whether it is the right way to Target Help whether it is the right way to Target Help to whether it is the right way to Target Help to those whether it is the right way to Target Help to those who i whether it is the right way to. Target help to those who need whether it is the right way to i Target Help to those who need it most Target Help to those who need it most but Target Help to those who need it most but that Target Help to those who need it most but that should Target Help to those who need it most but that should be Target Help to those who need it most but that should be framed| Target Help to those who need it l most but that should be framed in Target Help to those who need it i most but that should be framed in a wider most but that should be framed in a wider debate, most but that should be framed in a wider debate, not most but that should be framed in a wider debate, not done most but that should be framed in a wider debate, not done with most but that should be framed in a wider debate, not done with this i wider debate, not done with this htunt wider debate, not done with this blunt instrument. Wider debate, not done with this blunt instrument. Horat wider debate, not done with this blunt instrument. Wider debate, not done with this blunt instrument. How would you find the 21. 9. Blunt instrument. How would you find the 219 i blunt instrument. How would you find the 21. 9. I promise we blunt instrument. How would you find the 21. 9. I promise we will blunt instrument. How would you find the 21. 9. I promise we will come i the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that i the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that. I just the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that. I just want the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that. I just want to the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that. I just want to bring i the 21. 9. I promise we will come onto that. Ijust want to bring in, i onto that. Ijust want to bring in, like many mps and former mps, we have an inbox at newsnight which has been filled with people with strong feelings on the Government Plan to cut the Winter Fuel payment. Vanessa collard has had to give up work to care for her husband. Their rural household dependent on Heating Oil is set to lose out. Vanessa described her situation. I have my husband at home, who is all care, end of stage huntingtons disease. And whilst my husband does have a pension etc, because of his condition, hes fully bed bound. I have to have heating on 24 7. Because of that, that means my Fuel Bills are quite extortionate. So this £200, £300 that youve been used to getting at winter, that will have a Material Impact on you . Well, for me it makes a big difference because that fills half of my oil tank. It relieves financially. It does give some relief that i dont have to look for an extra £300 to fill the tank. Otherwise im looking at. Can i leave the heating off for a certain amount of time . I can give my husband extra blankets. Yes, i can, but thats not what he needs. The whole room needs to be heated. And you cant claim this pensions credit. No, we cant claim. He gets the State Pension and he has a private pension because he worked. And to be clear, you voted for labour in the general election . Historically, we have voted labour. Thats what i did because i felt he had some good mandates there and he was going to look after the public and so i voted labour, yes. The message were getting tonight from parliament is no turning back. Theres going to be no u turn. What does that mean for you . For me, ill be using our savings to keep the heating on. Were quite lucky in that i have a little bit of savings, but, you know, keeping the house heated, etc, is going to eat into that. But so be it. And i think there should be more consideration for people that are sick at home that need that little bit of support. Well, theyll hear your voice, vanessa. Thanks so much for writing in. Youre welcome, thank you. Labour mps will have to get used to letters from hundreds of pensioners like that who did not expect or were told about this change. find like that who did not expect or were told about this change. Told about this change. And very man of told about this change. And very many of these told about this change. And very many of these mps told about this change. And very many of these mps are told about this change. And very l many of these mps are brandnew told about this change. And very i many of these mps are brandnew and many of these mps are brand new and this will be the First time they have had a really difficult letters in their inboxes and it will be hard to handle. Thats a difficult story we have hurt but im afraid thats not the norm, there are 11. 5 million people in receipt of this benefit and that will drop by 10 Million. A huge chunk of those 10 Million people have had a very good decade when it comes to increases in pensions, for example, the pension going up by £900 this year alone thanks to the Triple Lock and we heard from Rachel Reeves that it will go up perhaps by another £400 next april. Im not saying these families have it easy but compared to young families with children or single people, or people who are homeless or struggling with the security of the housing, it has been a different experience and that the Conservative Party. Is a different experience and that the Conservative Party. Conservative party. Is an interesting Conservative Party. Is an interesting argument i Conservative Party. Is an| interesting argument and Conservative Party. Is an i interesting Argument And One Conservative Party. Is an interesting Argument And One that can be made but its not an item that was made before the election. We have a precedent for this because as Conor Group will remember in 2017, the Conservative Party under Theresa May chose to go on a front Footin Theresa may chose to go on a front foot in M S best and announce this policy and it was a disaster you lost your majority in a manifesto. The public was not ready for it. Your party could have been clearer, clearly left a window for it to happen and it is the Honesty And Trans parity that is the issue. If were talking about that, lets go back to the £22 billion Black Hole which is why it wasnt in the manifesto. Which is why it wasnt in the manifesto. Which is why it wasnt in the manifesto. ,. ,. Manifesto. Open this idea of a winter manifesto. Open this idea of a Winter Fuel manifesto. Open this idea of a Winter Fuel allowance manifesto. Open this idea of a Winter Fuel allowance being i Winter Fuel allowance being abolished and not actually confront the argument beforehand . I abolished and not actually confront the argument beforehand . Abolished and not actually confront the argument beforehand . I think it is the reality the argument beforehand . I think it is the reality of the argument beforehand . I think it is the reality of the the argument beforehand . I think it is the reality of the circumstances. L is the reality of the circumstances. Dont think for a second there is a single Labour Mp in the country who wants to make this type of cut, thats not what they came into politics to do. But politics and government is about hard choices. I think this decision is a lot easier for Labour Mps than decisions they are faced already around the two child benefit cap. Its a really poorly targeted benefit, it will save a substantial amount of money, it has not been an easy decision but i think its the right thing to do. And Theresa May didnt go ahead with that Idea And Theresa may didnt go ahead with that idea in and Theresa May didnt go ahead with that idea in 2017 because the labour leadership, that idea in 2017 because the labour leadership, we have a Member Of the jeremy leadership, we have a Member Of the Jeremy Corbyn Leadership team, put out Press Releases talking about how out Press Releases talking about how. If out Press Releases talking about how, if you withdrew Winter Fuel atiowance how, if you withdrew Winter Fuel allowance from pensioners to be you have excess allowance from pensioners to be you have excess deaths. The Conservative Party have been campaigning hard and trying to reconnect with your former mp and bournemouth, many older voters, i bournemouth, many oldervoters, i can imagine how this is going down and we do have some news in terms of the polling numbers, quite interesting, more balance and you might expect. We have the new poll tonight, more people oppose than support this move but it is quite balanced, 42 against 39 and that age split underneath the numbers. The under 50s on balance, according to this, seem to support this move. What you would expect. Two months after the general election, in which my party received a severe kicking, you can say this not being in parliament, i am detached with what the current polling sense, the next election will be determined on how the government has handled four and a half or five years. Our people feeling better off . Do they have a government they can trust . Has the principal opposition, the Conservative Party, reconnected with the british people and offering a decent alternative that the people want . The thing i would be worried about if i was a Labour Mp is there was no pulling for this at all, this was no pulling for this at all, this was just was no pulling for this at all, this wasjust dropped, was no pulling for this at all, this was just dropped, you was no pulling for this at all, this wasjust dropped, you remember the debates during the election, Keir Starmer are Put Under Pressure by Rishi Sunak on this, he denied there would be tax rises of any significant measure. This was not mentioned at all. Here it is. Pensioners have done very well in recent years since the Triple Lock under the conservatives, pensions have gone up dramatically, to the extent that many pensioners feel the prospect of coming into income tax. Your government did not. Prospect of coming into income tax. Your government did not. Prospect of coming into income tax. Your government did not. This is a landslide on your government did not. This is a landslide on the your government did not. This is a landslide on the scale your government did not. This is a landslide on the scale of your government did not. This is a landslide on the scale of tony i your government did not. This is a landslide on the scale of tony blair. Landslide on the scale of tony Blair And Thatcher in 1983 and two months later, the First significant vote in parliament is to take the Winter Fuel payments away from pensioners. And i wonder. The Fuel Payments away from pensioners. And i wonder Fuel Payments away from pensioners. And i wonder and i wonder. The snp are doing this as well,. And i wonder. The snp are doing this as well,. I and i wonder. The snp are doing this as well,. I cannot and i wonder. The snp are doing this as well,. I cannot remember the last and this as well,. I cannot remember the last and you this as well,. I cannot remember the last and you were this as well,. I cannot remember the last and you were praising i the last and you were praising the snp. They are kicking and screaming about the westminster formulas, it is also nonsense. If about the westminster formulas, it is also nonsense. Is also nonsense. If they spend the Mone On is also nonsense. If they spend the money on buying is also nonsense. If they spend the money on Buying Word is also nonsense. If they spend the money on Buying Word for is also nonsense. If they spend the money on Buying Word for the I Money on Buying Word for the woodfired stove. | money on Buying Word for the woodfired stove. Money on Buying Word for the woodfired stove. T, o, o ~ t, woodfired stove. I have acknowledged that this is a woodfired stove. I have acknowledged that this is a debate woodfired stove. I have acknowledged that this is a debate we woodfired stove. I have acknowledged that this is a debate we should woodfired stove. I have acknowledged that this is a debate we should have i that this is a debate we should have about universality and targeting. Barry . About universality and targeting. Bar . ~. ,. , ~. , about universality and targeting. Bar . ~. ,. , ~. ,. , barry . What i am keen to get into this Debate Barry . What i am keen to get into this debate is barry . What i am keen to get into this debate is Line Barry . What i am keen to get into this debate is Line One barry . What i am keen to get into this debate is Line One of barry . What i am keen to get into this debate is Line One of the this debate is Line One of the labour this debate is Line One of the labour manifesto, this debate is Line One of the labour manifesto, it this debate is Line One of the labour manifesto, it said this debate is Line One of the| labour manifesto, it said that this debate is Line One of the labour manifesto, it said that we will stabilise labour manifesto, it said that we will stabilise the labour manifesto, it said that we will stabilise the economy. Labour manifesto, it said that we will stabilise the economy. Thatl labour manifesto, it said that we i will stabilise the economy. That was the First will stabilise the economy. That was the First promise will stabilise the economy. That was the First promise that will stabilise the economy. That was the First promise that we made. Will stabilise the economy. That wasl the First promise that we made. Yes, this has the First promise that we made. Yes, this has heeri the First promise that we made. Yes, this has been dropped the First promise that we made. Yes, this has been dropped and, the First promise that we made. Yes, this has been dropped and, of this has been dropped and, of course this has been dropped and, of course it this has been dropped and, of course. It has this has been dropped and, of course. It has been this has been dropped and, of course. It has been dropped l this has been dropped and, of| course. It has been dropped in because course. It has been dropped in because actually, course. It has been dropped in because actually, we course. It has been dropped in because actually, we did course. It has been dropped in because actually, we did not l course. It has been dropped in because actually, we did not realise there because actually, we did not realise there was because actually, we did not realise there was a because actually, we did not realise there was a £21. 9 because actually, we did not realise there was a £21. 9 billion because actually, we did not realise there was a £21. 9 billion hull because actually, we did not realise there was a £21. 9 billion hull in there was a £21. 9 billion hull in there was a £21. 9 billion hull in the Finances there was a £21. 9 billion hull in the Finances. There was a £21. 9 billion hull in the Finances. When are going to settle all of the Finances. When are going to settle all of those the Finances. When are going to settle all of those public settle all of those public Sector Union claims in full within the First year . If union claims in full within the First year . Union claims in full within the First ear . , First year . If i was a pensioner, what i rely on First year . If i was a pensioner, what i rely on the First year . If i was a pensioner, what i rely on the public First year . If i was a pensioner, i what i rely on the Public Services, and i do what i rely on the Public Services, and i do not want. My what i rely on the Public Services, and i do not want. What i rely on the Public Services, and i do not want. My doctors on strike. And i do not want. My doctors on strike did and i do not want. My doctors on strike. Did you and i do not want. My doctors on strike. Did you know and i do not want. My doctors on strike. Did you know you and i do not want. My doctors on strike. Did you know you were and i do not want. My doctors on. Strike. Did you know you were going to settle those in the First six weeks . ~. ,. ,. , weeks . We were clear that we would resect the weeks . We were clear that we would respect the public weeks . We were clear that we would respect the Public Sector weeks . We were clear that we would respect the public Sector Pay respect the public Sector Pay bargaining review. But my point to you as bargaining review. But my point to you as it bargaining review. But my point to you as it actually, if you are a pensioner. You as it actually, if you are a pensioner, you want good Public Services pensioner, you want good Public Services. You provided the worst Public Services. You provided the worst Public Services this country has seen Public Services this country has seen in Public Services this country has seen. In 2010 we had a Health Service seen. In 2010 we had a Health Service that had a higher percentage of satisfaction than it ever had had, of satisfaction than it ever had had, right of satisfaction than it ever had had, right from the beginning. It was the had, right from the beginning. It was the worst when we inherited that from you was the worst when we inherited that from you. The worst satisfaction. 7. 8 from you. The worst satisfaction. 78 Million from you. The worst satisfaction. 7. 8 million people on a waiting list. Will you transparent with the public . We list. Will you transparent with the ublic . ~. , list. Will you transparent with the ublic . ,. , public . We cannot be transparent with what you public . We cannot be transparent with what you do public . We cannot be transparent with what you do not public . We cannot be transparent with what you do not know, public . We cannot be transparent with what you do not know, and L Public . We cannot be transparent i with what you do not know, and you can then with what you do not know, and you can then say, with what you do not know, and you can then say, we find we have to find this can then say, we find we have to find this money. How are we going to do it . Find this money. How are we going to do it . You find this money. How are we going to do it . You then take the tough decisions do it . You then take the tough decisions and do it on the basis of the First decisions and do it on the basis of the First principle of the manifesto. The First principle of the manifesto. ,. ,. , manifesto. He did not know you were auoin to manifesto. He did not know you were going to settle manifesto. He did not know you were going to settle either manifesto. He did not know you were going to settle either of manifesto. He did not know you were going to settle either of those . Manifesto. He did not know you were going to settle either of those . The | going to settle either of those . The First principle of the manifesto is to stabilise the economy, stabilise the economy. It to stabilise the economy, stabilise the economy the economy. It was not in the manifesto. The economy. It was not in the manifesto. It the economy. It was not in the manifesto, it was the economy. It was not in the manifesto, it was not the economy. It was not in the manifesto, it was not done the economy. It was not in the manifesto, it was not done as i manifesto, it was not done as part of a budget process, if it is done in the round in the budget you can say this group will suffer and ministers are telling me it looks like this government was targeting pensioners. Why was it not done in the Budget Round . When the chancellor made the announcement she said we are going to stick with the Triple Lock but did not say what they say it now, which as it will go up they say it now, which as it will go up by £1000 over the next parliament. They did not make that collection in connection one month and a half ago. It is collection in connection one month and a half ago and a half ago. It is about the reali , and a half ago. It is about the reality. Rrot and a half ago. It is about the reality, not about and a half ago. It is about the reality, not about did and a half ago. It is about the reality, not about did you and a half ago. It is about the reality, not about did you say| and a half ago. It is about the reality, not about did you say this at the reality, not about did you say this at the right reality, not about did you say this at the right time . How are pensioners doing . £900 better off in their pension and nastier. In cash terms~ their pension and nastier. In cash terms~ they their pension and nastier. In cash terms. They will probably be about £400 terms. They will probably be about £400 for terms. They will probably be about £400 for better off, we are talking 1300. £400 for better off, we are talking 1300. And £400 for better off, we are talking 1300, and the cap on the fuel costs, the average 1300, and the cap on the fuel costs, the average cap, is reduced by £117 so we the average cap, is reduced by £117 so we know the average cap, is reduced by £117 so we know that pensioners are going to be so we know that pensioners are going to he that so we know that pensioners are going to be that much better. All of us in the lahour to be that much better. All of us in the Labour Party are concerned to see some the Labour Party are concerned to see some form of tapering, we do not like cliff see some form of tapering, we do not like Cliff Edges and that is why we like Cliff Edges and that is why we like universal benefits. We like Cliff Edges and that is why we like universal benefits. Like Cliff Edges and that is why we like universal benefits. We spoke to our like universal benefits. We spoke to your colleague. Like universal benefits. We spoke to your colleague, rachael like universal benefits. We spoke to your colleague, rachael maskell, i like universal benefits. We spoke to. Your colleague, rachael maskell, the foreign minister, last week. I could not vote foreign minister, last week. I could rrot vote for foreign minister, last week. I could not vote for this foreign minister, last week. I could not vote for this but foreign minister, last week. I could not vote for this but i foreign minister, last week. I could not vote for this but i think foreign minister, last week. I could not vote for this but i think but not vote for this but i think but we are saying is this is bigger than a vote because this is about protecting peoples lives and ultimately, it is our responsibility as mps, to speak truth to power that is all theyre doing, to say there are people in danger here that are at risk and we need the government to step in. At risk and we need the government to ste in. � at risk and we need the government to ste in. ,. , to step in. And others have said that some to step in. And others have said that some pensioners to step in. And others have said | that some pensioners could die, excess deaths will increase. People with those concerns who want to abstain, should they lose the web . Pensioners this year have £900 more than pensioners this year have £900 more than. R pensioners this year have £900 more than. ,. ,. , pensioners this year have £900 more than. ,. , than. I am asking about the whip, why such than. I am asking about the whip, why such as than. I am asking about the whip, why such. As it than. I am asking about the whip, why such. As it not than. I am asking about the whip, | why such. As it not overthetop . Why such. As it not over the top . I dont know what will happen to people i dont know what will happen to people who decide to abstain. That is above my pay grade. What i do know is above my pay grade. What i do know is is above my pay grade. What i do know is i is above my pay grade. What i do know is i think this is an example of the know is i think this is an example of the tough decisions that you have to make of the tough decisions that you have to make when you are presented with an absolutely unbelievable. Hole. Did ou an absolutely unbelievable. Hole. Did you ever an absolutely unbelievable. Hole. Did you ever think an absolutely unbelievable. Hole. Did you ever think you an absolutely unbelievable. Hole. Did you ever think you would an absolutely unbelievable. Hole. Did you ever think you would be did you ever think you would be defending the sort of thing on newsnight . I defending the sort of thing on newsnight . Defending the sort of thing on newsnight . Defending the sort of thing on newsniaht . , newsnight . I did not think we be lookin at newsnight . I did not think we be looking at filling newsnight . I did not think we be looking at Filling A maybe not being properly communic Filling Ith about release. Maybe not being properly communic Filling A 1 about release. Newsnight . I did not think we be looking at Filling A £21. 9 billion i looking at Filling A £21. 9 billion black looking at Filling A £21. 9 billion Black Hole. Let us put the maybe not being properly communicFilling A £21. 9 billion se. Looking at Filling A £21. 9 billion black looking at Filling A £21. 9 billion Black Hole. Let us put the responsibility where it lies. You responsibility where it lies. You are the ones are the Ones Responsibility where it lies. You are the ones who responsibility where it lies. You are the ones who responsibility where it lies. M. Are the ones who are bringing this responsibility where it lies. M. Are the ones who are bringing this in. ~. , in. ~. , are the ones who are bringing this in. ~ , are the ones who are bringing this are the ones who are bringing this in. ~ , are the ones who are bringing this in. We can park this for now, we can move on in. We can park this for now, we can move on lets hold that thought. Lets hold that thought. We are also on the eve of an early we are also on the eve of an early release of hundreds of Prisoners Release of hundreds of prisoners essentially because our prisons essentially because our prisons are full up. Are full up. Again, the government again, the government says it has no choice. Says it has no choice. But this is a decision communicated with about release. But this is a decision with lots ofjeopardy with lots ofjeopardy for Downing Street for Downing Street not least because some criminals not least because some criminals serving multiple Years Injail serving multiple Years Injail will be released early. Will be released early. Here is what the domestic abuse here is what the domestic Abuse Commissioner Nicole Jacobs warned commissioner Nicole Jacobs warned about this issue on this about this issue on this programme in summer. Programme in summer. Im extremely alarmed. Im extremely alarmed. It feels victims are paying it feels victims are paying the price for this crisis. The price for this crisis. And they will be the ones and they will be the ones who will have sleepless who will have sleepless nights thinking about, nights thinking about, or not knowing precisely, or not knowing precisely, maybe not being properly maybe not being properly communicated with about release. I mean, they will pay a huge price, including their safety. People who are we are hearing, some people who are domestic abusers but are sentenced for a different offence and the new rules will apply to them because the reels follow offences and not offenders in the government says thatis offenders in the government says that is one of the reasons why they gave the Probation Service two months so they can put in Place Mitigation in those cases, ankle tags or alerting victims. The government says they had to do this, the Prison Estate is full and they were warned by the police that you could have riots and the police if you do not free of Prison Places because she would not be able to Arrest People. Because she would not be able to Arrest People Arrest People. Did they have any other Choice Arrest people. Did they have any other choice from Arrest People. Did they have any other choice from what Arrest People. Did they have any other choice from what you Arrest People. Did they have any other choice from what you can l Arrest People. Did they have any other choice from what you can see . This has already happened in scotland to a smaller degree, how has that worked out . Has that worked out . Incredibly difficult, has that worked out . Incredibly difficult. And has that worked out . Incredibly difficult, and whether has that worked out . Incredibly difficult, and whether it has that worked out . Incredibly difficult, and whether it is has that worked out . Incredibly difficult, and whether it is in. Difficult, and whether it is in scotland difficult, and whether it is in scotland or here in london, i dont think scotland or here in london, i dont think the scotland or here in london, i dont think the government has a choice on the question think the government has a choice on the question is do they have the resources the question is do they have the resources to mitigate what could happen resources to mitigate what could happen next . You are right, it is possible happen next . You are right, it is possible you could have somebody who has beaten possible you could have somebody who has beaten up their wife and being charged has beaten up their wife and being charged with assault rather than an aggravated domestic Abuse Offence and they aggravated domestic Abuse Offence and they could end up out of The System and they could end up out of The System and the question for me is, how we system and the question for me is, how we enough resources going into womens how we enough resources going into Womens Aid facilities and our Way Funding Womens Aid facilities and our Way Funding refuges appropriately . The Probation Service is on its knees thanks Probation Service is on its knees thanks to this government so all of the wraparound services were used to have to the wraparound services were used to have to try the wraparound services were used to have to try to support people who are living have to try to support people who are living the Justice System to reintegrate into the committee are on Their Reintegrate Into The Committee are on their knees thanks to the conservatives and that is what must happen conservatives and that is what must happen next, an investment where possible happen next, an investment where possible into that to mitigate the worst possible into that to mitigate the worst effects of this. The}f possible into that to mitigate the worst effects of this. Worst effects of this. They were left with no worst effects of this. They were left with no choice, worst effects of this. They were left with no choice, given worst effects of this. They were left with no choice, given what| worst effects of this. They were i left with no choice, given what you left with no choice, given what you left them with . find left with no choice, given what you left them with . Left them with . And one of the advantages left them with . And one of the advantages of left them with . And one of the advantages of not left them with . And one of the advantages of not being left them with . And one of the advantages of not being a left them with . And one of the advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament any advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament any more advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament any more is advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament any more is to be advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament any more is to be able advantages of not being a Member Of Parliament any more is to be able to| parliament any more is to be able to step back parliament any more is to be able to step back from parliament any more is to be able to step back froM Some parliament any more is to be able to step back froM Some of parliament any more is to be able to step back froM Some of the parliament any more is to be able to step back froM Some of the Stuff Parliament any more is to be able to| step back froM Some of the Stuff And Alex chalk. Step back froM Some of the Stuff And Alex chalk. The step back froM Some of the Stuff And Alex chalk, the former step back froM Some of the Stuff And Alex chalk, the formerjustice alex chalk, the formerjustice secretary. Alex chalk, the formerjustice secretary, did alex chalk, the formerjustice secretary, did a alex chalk, the formerjustice secretary, did a very alex chalk, the formerjustice i secretary, did a very measured interview secretary, did a very measured interview with secretary, did a very measured interview with your secretary, did a very measured interview with your colleaguesl secretary, did a very measured i interview with your colleagues on the Today Interview with your colleagues on the Today Programme Interview with your colleagues on the Today Programme earlier interview with your colleagues on the Today Programme earlier in i interview with your colleagues on. The Today Programme earlier in the summer the Today Programme earlier in the summer where the Today Programme earlier in the summerwhere he the Today Programme earlier in the summer where he talked the Today Programme earlier in the summer where he talked about the Today Programme earlier in the | summer where he talked about how some summer where he talked about how some of summer where he talked about how some of his summer where he talked about how some of his Thinking Summer where he talked about how some of his thinking was summer where he talked about how some of his thinking was already ini some of his thinking was already in train and some of his thinking was already in train and there some of his thinking was already in train and there was some of his thinking was already in train and there was little some of his thinking was already in train and there was little option. I. Train and there was little option. I think train and there was little option. I think we train and there was little option. I think we need train and there was little option. I think we need to train and there was little option. I think we need to have train and there was little option. I think we need to have a train and there was little option. I think we need to have a real think we need to have a real conversation think we need to have a real conversation in think we need to have a real conversation in this think we need to have a real conversation in this countryl think we need to have a real conversation in this country about how we conversation in this country about how we do conversation in this country about how we do Prison Conversation in this country about how we do Prison And Conversation in this country about. How we do Prison And Probation and restorative how we do Prison And Probation and Restorative Justice how we do Prison And Probation and Restorative Justice and how we do Prison And Probation and Restorative Justice and crucially, Restorative Justice and crucially, how Wem Restorative ustice and crucially, how we. Restorative ustice and crucially, howwe. ,. , how we. Rishi sunak said no, he did not how we. Rishi sunak said no, he did rrot want how we. Rishi sunak said no, he did not want to how we. Rishi sunak said no, he did not want to go how we. Rishi sunak said no, he did not want to go into how we. Rishi sunak said no, he did not want to go into an how we. Rishi sunak said no, hej did not want to go into an election with prisoners being released. I was. With prisoners being released. I was lookin at with prisoners being released. I was looking at this with prisoners being released. I was looking at this earlier with prisoners being released. I was looking at this earlier and in the early looking at this earlier and in the early 90s looking at this earlier and in the early 90s we looking at this earlier and in the early 90s we had looking at this earlier and in the early 90s we had a looking at this earlier and in the early 90s we had a prison looking at this earlier and in the early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this country early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this country of early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this country of 41000 early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this country of 41000 and early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this country of 41000 and it early 90s we had a Prison Publishing in this country of 41000 and it is in this country of 41000 and it is now 88. 000. In this country of 41000 and it is now 88,000, we in this country of 41000 and it is now 88,000, we have in this country of 41000 and it is now 88,000, we have one in this country of 41000 and it is| now 88,000, we have one of the highest now 88,000, we have one of the highest prison now 88,000, we have one of the highest Prison Population now 88,000, we have one of the highest Prison Population is highest Prison Population is per head highest Prison Population is per head of highest Prison Population is per head of population, highest Prison Population is per head of population, 238 highest Prison Population is per head of population, 238 for highest Prison Population is per. Head of population, 238 for every 100. 000 head of population, 238 for every 100,000 People Head of population, 238 for every 100,000 people and head of population, 238 for every 100,000 people and that head of population, 238 for every 100,000 people and that is head of population, 238 for every 100,000 people and that is Ton Head of population, 238 for every 100,000 people and that is two times in spain 100,000 people and that is two times in spain and 100,000 people and that is two times in Spain And Italy 100,000 people and that is two times in Spain And Italy and 100,000 people and that is two times in Spain And Italy and three 100,000 people and that is two times in Spain And Italy and three times in Spain And Italy and three times germany in Spain And Italy and three times germany we in Spain And Italy and three times germany. We should in Spain And Italy and three times germany. We should start in Spain And Italy and three times germany. We should start a in Spain And Italy and three times. Germany. We should start a proper debate germany. We should start a proper debate in germany. We should start a proper debate in politics germany. We should start a proper debate in politics about germany. We should start a proper debate in politics about how germany. We should start a proper debate in politics about how we debate in politics about how we do this stuff. We debate in politics about how we do this stuff, we need debate in politics about how we do this stuff, we need to debate in politics about how we do this stuff, we need to look debate in politics about how we do this stuff, we need to look at debate in politics about how we do this stuff, we need to look at the i this stuff, we need to look at the planning this stuff, we need to look at the Planning System this stuff, we need to look at the Planning System as this stuff, we need to look at the Planning System as well this stuff, we need to look at the Planning System as well because | this stuff, we need to look at the i Planning System as well because we want more Planning System as well because we want more prison Planning System as well because we want more Prison Spaces Planning System as well because we want more Prison Spaces yet Planning System as well because we want more Prison Spaces yet every. Want more Prison Spaces yet every time want more Prison Spaces yet every time people want more Prison Spaces yet every time people come want more Prison Spaces yet every time people come forward want more Prison Spaces yet every time people come forward with want more Prison Spaces yet every time people come forward with a i time people come forward with a proposal. Time people come forward with a proposal. There time people come forward with a proposal, there was time people come forward with a proposal, there was one time people come forward with a proposal, there was one in proposal, there was one in buckinghamshire, proposal, there was one in buckinghamshire, all proposal, there was one in buckinghamshire, all of. Proposal, there was one inl buckinghamshire, all of the proposal, there was one in buckinghamshire, all of the local mps go buckinghamshire, all of the local mps go ballistic. Buckinghamshire, all of the local mps go ballistic. Buckinghamshire, all of the local mps go ballistic. We have to wrap this u , mps go ballistic. We have to wrap this up. Do mps go ballistic. We have to wrap this up. Do you mps go ballistic. We have to wrap this up, do you think mps go ballistic. We have to wrap this up, do you think there mps go ballistic. We have to wrap this up, do you think there is mps go ballistic. We have to wrap. This up, do you think there is going to be room for that type of conversation in the conservative Leadership Contest you are seeing right now . I Leadership Contest you are seeing riaht now . , ,. ,. , Leadership Contest you are seeing riahtnow . , ,. ,. ,. , right now . I honestly do not know, it is one of right now . I honestly do not know, it is one of my right now . I honestly do not know, it is one of my regrets right now . I honestly do not know, it is one of my regrets that it is one of my regrets that our politics it is one of my regrets that our politics means it is one of my regrets that our politics means there it is one of my regrets that our politics means there is it is one of my regrets that our politics means there is not it is one of my regrets that our| politics means there is not that space politics means there is not that space in politics means there is not that space in politics politics means there is not that space in politics and politics means there is not that space in politics and frankly, i politics means there is not that. Space in politics and frankly, and your space in politics and frankly, and your Profession Space in politics and frankly, and your profession as space in politics and frankly, and your profession as well. Space in politics and frankly, and your profession as well. We your profession as well. We are having your profession as well. We are having it your profession as well. We are having it right your profession as well. We are having it right now. Your profession as well. We are having it right now. Would having it right now. Would that extent having it right now. Would that extent if having it right now. Would that extent if we having it right now. Would that extent if we had having it right now. Would that extent if we had a having it right now. Would that extent if we had a serious having it right now. Would that extent if we had a serious andl having it right now. Would that extent if we had a serious and open Debate Extent if we had a serious and open Debate Ithe Extent if we had a serious and open debate. ~. ,. , � , debate. We will have that. Lets look at the debate. We will have that. Lets look at the stories debate. We will have that. Lets look at the stories on debate. We will have that. Lets look at the stories on the debate. We will have that. Lets look at the stories on the front L Look at the stories on the front pages. There is one rather significant story. The royal announcement from the Princess Of Wales. The good news, of course. The Daily Telegraph says, i want to stay cancer free. Daily telegraph says, i want to stay cancerfree. Stills Daily Telegraph says, i want to stay cancer free. Stills taken from an extraordinary video. In the same picture in the guardian, we can scroll through the rest of the papers, the daily mail, kate, and then Out Of Darkness will come light from the daily mirror. Your kindness as humbling as a headline in the daily express, all of the papers apart from the i, which goes on the Winter Fuel payments. As you can see, a day of big royal news. With relief at the news that catherine, Princess Of Wales is now cancer free after treatment. As summer comes to an end, i cannot tell you what relief it is to have completed my chemotherapy treatment. Her return to light public duties announced in a Studio Quality Family video posted on social media. Separately, news also emerged to our bbc colleagues of pressure on her Uncle Prince Andrew to pay his own Upkeep And Security for his 30 Room House in Windsor Orface moving out. The siege of royal lodge, as some have called it, also occurring days ahead of another Star Studded Portrayal of the Princes Interview on the Epstein Affair on newsnight itself with Emily Maitlis in 2019, featuring this infamous clip. As far as Mr Epstein was concerned, it was the wrong decision to go and see him in 2010. Do i regret the fact that he has quite obviously conducted himself in a manner unbecoming . Yes. Unbecoming . He was a sex offender. Yeah, iM Sorry, im being polite. The long shadow of that interview. Eyebrows raised about the living arrangements of the prince . It is fantastic news arrangements of the prince . It is fantastic news about the Princess Of Wales. Fantastic news about the Princess Of Wales. Only fantastic news about the Princess Of Wales. Only two fantastic news about the Princess Of Wales, only two years fantastic news about the Princess Of Wales, only two years after fantastic news about the Princess Of Wales, only two years after the wales, only two years after the death wales, only two years after the death of wales, only two years after the death of her wales, only two years after the death of her late wales, only two years after the death of her late majesty wales, only two years after the death of her late majesty and. Wales, only two years after the. Death of her late majesty and the Uncertainty Death of her late majesty and the uncertainty about death of her late majesty and the uncertainty about the death of her late majesty and the uncertainty about the future death of her late majesty and the uncertainty about the future of. Death of her late majesty and the| uncertainty about the future of the royal uncertainty about the future of the royal family. Uncertainty about the future of the royal family. The uncertainty about the future of the royal family, the terrible uncertainty about the future of the royal family, the terrible news. Royal family, the terrible news about royal family, the terrible news about the royal family, the terrible news about the king, royal family, the terrible news about the king, her royal family, the terrible news about the king, her news royal family, the terrible news about the king, her News Today is unashamedly about the king, her News Today is unashamedly good about the king, her News Today is unashamedly good news about the king, her News Today is unashamedly good news and about the king, her News Today is unashamedly good news and the| unashamedly good news and the Monarchy Unashamedly good news and the monarchy is unashamedly good news and the monarchy is in unashamedly good news and the monarchy is in a unashamedly good news and the monarchy is in a good unashamedly good news and the monarchy is in a good place, i. Monarchy is in a good place, i think monarchy is in a good place, i think 0f Monarchy is in a good place, i think 0fall Monarchy is in a good place, i think. Ofallthe monarchy is in a good place, i think. Of all the Pressing Monarchy is in a good place, i. Think. Of all the pressing issues i heard think. Of all the pressing issues i heard in think. Of all the pressing issues i heard in my think. Of all the pressing issues i heard in my years think. Of all the pressing issues i heard in my years as think. Of all the pressing issues i heard in my years as a think. Of all the pressing issues i heard in my years as a member. Think. Of all the pressing issues ll heard in my years as a Member Of Parliament heard in my years as a Member Of Parliament and heard in my years as a Member Of Parliament And Housing heard in my years as a Member Of Parliament And Housing cases heard in my years as a Member Of| Parliament And Housing cases that heard in my years as a Member Of. Parliament and housing cases that i