Justice system at breaking point, From Today Thousands Of Prisoners in england and wales will be released after serving 40 of their sentence rather than 50 . It 4096 of their sentence rather than 5096 than 50 . It was the only 0 tion than 50 . It was the only option on than 50 . It was the only option on the than 50 . It was the only option on the table than 50 . It was the only option on the Table And L than 50 . It was the only option on the table and thats because the alternative to not making this change would have been to allow the Prison System to collapse and therefore to allow the Law And Order in this country to collapse. But these Emergency Measures are controversial with big concerns from some Prison Staff and campaigners about Public Safety and an increase in reoffending. They have nowhere to live, they fall back they have nowhere to live, they fall back into drug taking, they fall back into drug taking, they have Mental Health difficulties already. If they are not difficulties already. If they are not getting the support, the treatment, the stable housing, the danger either they fall back housing, the danger either they fall back into reoffending or they fall back into reoffending or they simply breached their Licensing Conditions and end up inside Licensing Conditions and end up inside again anyway. The Prison Imputation inside again anyway. The Prison Imputation in inside again anyway. The Prison Population in england inside again anyway. The Prison Population in England And Population in england and waleses record high with more than 88,000 people injail according to the latest Ministry Ofjustice data it is estimated 4000 extra male prisoners and around 1000 female inmates will be released over the next 18 months under these new measures with the government hoping to free up 5500 beds to whole newly sentenced criminals. Those convicted of the most serious crimes such as murder, terrorism and domestic abuse are excluded from this programme. But for rebecca, a victim of domestic abuse, she is fearing the worst again. She recently received a letter saying her Ex Partner who served time for domestic abuse would now be released early for a connected offence. It would now be released early for a connected offence. A connected offence. It feels like he has a connected offence. It feels like He Hasjust a connected offence. It feels like He Hasjust had a connected offence. It feels like He Hasjust had a a connected offence. It feels like He Hasjust had a bit a connected offence. It feels like He Hasjust had a bit of. A connected offence. It feels| like He Hasjust had a bit of a slap on the wrist and told not to be a naughty boy. Nothing else. Whereas i have to deal with the damage that he has done to me. The conservatives say the government should focus on building more prisons to help ease overcrowding. And for those charged or convicted of offences related to the recent riots, more Prison Places are expected to be quickly filled in the coming weeks. Adina campbell, bbc news. Lets speak to our reporter Megan 0wen who is outside wormwood Scrubs Prison in west london. I know you have had a chance to speak to some people. How will this Policy Affect families who are there waiting for their Loved Ones to be released . Ones to be released . Well, sarah, ones to be released . Well, sarah. Only ones to be released . Well, sarah, only in ones to be released . Well, sarah, only in the ones to be released . Well, sarah, only in the last ones to be released . Well, sarah, only in the last hourj sarah, only in the last hour have we seen prisoners start to be released. It has been quite staggered so they have come out in groups of four or five staggered so they have come out in groups of four orfive and ive had the chance to speak to Family Medicine friends who have been waiting to be reunited with them. Interestingly, there obviously is excitement. 0ne interestingly, there obviously is excitement. One man said he couldnt wait to hug his brother. Another woman said she couldnt wait to be reunited with her partner after two years. One of the Family Members have spoken to said that whilst the plan to release prisoners early has worked for them, they dont necessarily agree that it should apply to everybody because they are worried that it will encourage people to continue offending. So, really interesting thoughts from some of the Family Members. We have also had an increased Police Presence around here but also Prison Charity members are waiting outside the prison to help assist those being released early. Assist those being released earl.. assist those being released earl... early. Have you managed to get any sense early. Have you managed to get any sense from early. Have you managed to get any sense from the early. Have you managed to get any sense from the families early. Have you managed to get any sense from the families as. Any sense from the families as to what the conditions are like inside wormwood scrubs, which is a very large prison in london . Is a very large prison in london . ~... london . We have. One woman told me that it has london . We have. One woman told me that it has been london . We have. One woman told me that it has been really, me that it has been really, really difficult for her partner and she said she is not surprised that this scheme has come into force now because of just how overcrowded they are. And of course, the Chief Inspector of prisons did release a Report Today saying what we already know which is there is lots of overcrowding, there is lots of overcrowding, the prisons are understaffed, there is high levels of violence across england and wales in those prisons. So of course, the government have said that by releasing these prisoners this is the solution to tackling in the short term this overcrowding. To tackling in the short term this overcrowding. Meghan owen outside wormwood this overcrowding. Meghan owen outside wormwood scrubs, this overcrowding. Meghan owen | outside wormwood scrubs, thank you for that. Clearly this is affecting a lot of people and there are concerns at the early release of so many prisoners having a Knock On Effect on the Probation Service which is already struggling with its workload. We are joined already struggling with its workload. We arejoined by ian lawrence, The General secretary of the national association of probation officers. Mr lawrence, thank you forjoining us on bbc news. Take us through the reality for your members, probation officers, what this will mean for them. Probation officers, what this will mean for them. Thank you. It is a will mean for them. Thank you. It is a huge will mean for them. Thank you. It is a huge challenge will mean for them. Thank you. It is a huge challenge for it is a huge challenge for probation staff. They are already massively overworked and understaffed and underpaid dealing with what we would call normal probation supervision work. This early Release Scheme replaces the previous one and ought to allow more time for Processing Releases and is a bit of an improvement but there are still huge pressure on our members to exercise the scheme in the way that is wanted by the government. So it is a challenge. We have a negotiated Overtime Package for our members to try and break the logjam but that presupposes the Energy And Capacity to do that over time. Energy and capacity to do that overtime. Its Energy And Capacity to do that over time. Its not a proper solution, it is a short term palliative. Solution, it is a shortterm palliative palliative. Just take us through palliative. Just take us through the palliative. Just take us through the process. I palliative. Just take us through the process. Because obviously a lot of people will be concerned about offenders being released early as to whether they actually should be released early, and its largely up to the Probation Service to monitor and check on them. Take us through when these prisoners are released, how much contact will they have with the officers, with your members, and what is your role in terms of keeping the public safe . Is in terms of keeping the public safe .. in terms of keeping the public safe .. Safe . Is much contact as we can muster. Safe . Is much contact as we can muster that safe . Is much contact as we can muster. That involves safe . Is much contact as we can muster. That involves prison muster. That involves Prison Staff as well as probation. The checks and balances, safeguarding requirements need to be gone through as part of that process. Where is the individual going to live . Is it a safe place . If there were previous issues around sex offending, are there safeguarding issues there . What is the mental Health Capacity . Because this is a huge problem. Too many people in our Prison System are already suffering from Mental Health issues and need immediate support for drug, Alcohol Abuse etc. We need to make sure that wherever that prisoner goes, they stand as little chance as possible of reoffending. As little chance as possible of reoffending reoffending. Which is incredibly reoffending. Which is incredibly difficult. I reoffending. Which is l incredibly difficult. Im reoffending. Which is incredibly difficult. Im just wondering how you are feeling about this at the moment today. Are your members nervous . Are they supportive of this scheme . Do they understand why it is necessary . Necessary . Yes, we have to Su Ort necessary . Yes, we have to support the necessary . Yes, we have to support the scheme, necessary . Yes, we have to support the scheme, there l necessary . Yes, we have to| support the scheme, there is necessary . Yes, we have to support the scheme, there is no alternative right now that could replace it because the Prison Population has burgeoned recently because of those involved in the disgraceful societal racist disorder of late. That has put pressure on capacity already. Yeah, members are saying to us they are concerned about what happens if serious Reoffending Incident occurs. Our people will do everything they can to make sure Public Safety is the number one priority and the Lord Chancellor made that clear and we support that. But i cannot sit here and say the scheme is not without risk. What needs to happen is we need to look at short Term Prison Sentencing and ask the question, why are so many people languishing in prisons that have not committed what i call Public Safety facing offences . And why arent we looking at ways of bringing them out into the community, supervised by an effective, efficient and properly funded Probation Service . Thats the macro question. Macro question. One of the other questions macro question. One of the other questions you macro question. One of the other questions you have i macro question. One of the | other questions you have to deal with as a Probation Service is you also have to contact victims and let them know that the offender potentially is being released. That again is going to put a huge strain on your resources. Yes, a victim Engagement Officer Staff are doing an excellentjob alongside Officer Staff are doing an excellent job alongside the practitioners who monitor the prisoners on release. Yes, there is pressure on them because 1700 people are being released Today And Hasnt given us all the time we need to go through that process. The longer term, through that process. The longerterm, it through that process. The longer term, it will do. That is the Improvement Scheme that Probation Practitioners should have a longer lead in but thats why we have an Overtime Scheme because the pressure is huge. But like i say, there is no alternative. The alternative is people committing crimes would not get arrested. And thats an intolerable position as well... as well. On that note we have to leave it. As well. On that note we have to leave it, ian as well. On that note we have to leave it, ian lawrence, to leave it, ian lawrence, general secretary of the national association of probation officers, thank you. If you want more on this, you can find out much more from our website. We are running a live page with constant updates and analysis looking atjust how crowded britains prisons are. Now, another story that is running today is that in the next few Hours Parliament will vote on whether to end Winter Fuel payments for all but the poorest pensioners. The chancellor has urged fellow Labour Mps to back a plan which would see the Winter Allowance of up to 300 becomes means tested, meaning millions of people would no longer be eligible. The treasury says this will save around 1. 4 billion. Our political correspondent Anna Miller has this report. Correspondent Anna Miller has this rwort this report. Those not in receipt this report. Those not in receipt of this report. Those not in receipt of pension this report. Those not in| receipt of Pension Credits this report. Those not in receipt of Pension Credits or certain other means tested benefits will no longer receive the Winter Fuel payment from this year onwards. Its the Winter Fuel payment from this year onwards. This year onwards. Its the most controversial this year onwards. Its the most controversial Move L this year onwards. Its the i most controversial move the Labour Government has made so far, a cut for pensioners that has fuelled discontent among mps. These are the necessary and urgent decisions that i must make. Dozens of Labour Mps are known to be unhappy about the decision to limit the Winter Fuel payments to only the poorest pensioners, and 17 are calling for it to be postponed. One of them is diane abbott. I certainly wont support it. We are all discussing whether to vote against or abstain. But you cant possibly support it. It wasnt in the manifesto. Ministers say they have no plans to offer any further we have all had hundreds of letters we have all had hundreds of letters about it and even if you letters about it and even if you claim the Pension Credit which you claim the Pension Credit which actually that is unlikely to happen before the winter, there to happen before the winter, there will still be 3 Million pensionersjust above there will still be 3 Million pensioners just above the threshold to Pension Credit who are going threshold to Pension Credit who are going to be old and cold this are going to be old and cold this winter because of losing their this winter because of losing their winter tax arrangement. Ministers say they have no plans to offer any further support, arguing that the State Pension has gone up by 900 compared to a year ago and will go up again in the spring. Supporters insist that savings have to be found somewhere. Nobody in the Labour Party would like to see the sort of problems that will be caused for elderly people who are just above that threshold of 12,460. When you inherit a 21. 9 billion black hole, not in the future, but in the current year, you have to take tough choices. The government will win todays vote, such is the size of its majority, but ministers have still been trying to convince Wavering Mps to vote with them in order to show a united front. They say this isnt the only tough choice they will be making in the coming months, making today a test of party discipline. The Prime Minister is going to brighton this morning to give a speech to unions despite some leaders calling for him to change course. Labour mps fear they are about to face a significant wave of criticism. They hope its one they can withstand. Hannah miller, bbc news. The government has come under a lot of pressure from many of its own mps over their Winter Fuel payment policy. Our chief political correspondent, Henry Zeffman says the government are not showing any signs of a u turn. I think the government are adamant that this is absolutely the right thing to have done, both fiscally, where it will save, they reckon, about 1. 5 billion just this year, but also politically as a demonstration that they are willing to make tough decisions, indeed, that they have to make tough decisions because of what they say is the worst economic inheritance of any government pretty much ever. Its much more backbench labourmps, labourmps with no particular status in the government, many of them new to politics, just this year. Theyre the ones who are really anxious about the political capital that may have been expended here, notjust by the government, but also for those Labour Mps, many of whom have very marginal seats. Now, the next general Election Isnt until four or five years away, but older people tend to vote in greater numbers than younger people. And a lot of Labour Mps are conscious that they are not a demographic group that any government necessarily can afford to upset. So those are some of the political calculations here. But i should stress, it feels from talking to people in government this morning that things are moving in their direction. There was never any danger they would lose this vote because theyve got such a vast majority. But in terms of the size of the rebellion, people in government are increasingly optimistic that the number of Labour Mps who defy them is falling pretty much by the hour. That was Henry Zeffman. I should just say that probably in the next 15 minutes, the Prime Minister is due to add